Hi ,

In last fourdays I have been trying to calibrate by Infoucs X1 projector using HCFR & Spyder2.

For component inputs Infocus has controls only for Brightness, Contrast and RGB Gains.

I am attaching the HCFR files to this thread.

Given the above controls is there a way I can do better than this ? Seeking inputs.

Thanks.
Rao

How did you set the brightness and contrast controls?

How did you set the brightness and contrast controls?

I followed the instructions provided at this site "GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES "

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Im' familiar with the guide and its procedures, but that doesn't really give the details of what you did. Many times people misinterpret what is said or forget a step or two. For instance, after you set the contrast and then the brightness, did you go back and look at the contrast again? and then the brightness again, etc?
Also, the guide misses some finer points, like once you set contrast, especially if you started out with some runout, don't increase the gains on the RGBs when you're doing grayscale... and what gamma are you shooting for? for brightness, did you use the pluge pattern? did you see the BTB? or are you calculating based on the 10% stim?

Im' familiar with the guide and its procedures, but that doesn't really give the details of what you did. Many times people misinterpret what is said or forget a step or two. For instance, after you set the contrast and then the brightness, did you go back and look at the contrast again? and then the brightness again, etc?
Also, the guide misses some finer points, like once you set contrast, especially if you started out with some runout, don't increase the gains on the RGBs when you're doing grayscale... and what gamma are you shooting for? for brightness, did you use the pluge pattern? did you see the BTB? or are you calculating based on the 10% stim?


I am trying to shoot for gamma 2.2

I used the 10% to 100%IRE screens provided in the HCFR website. I had a DVD player converting the PAL to NTSC. So I used HCFR test patterns.

Here is what I did.

First I tried to find out the preset is giving me decent ftL in 100%IRE with less RGB variations. I found that Presentation and Warmest setting seems to be good.

Later using the same 100%IRE I tried to see if the ftL is between 12 to 16 range. I saw mine was around 13.8, so I left that as it is.

Later I went into 10% IRE and tried to set the brightness to 0.65% of 100%IRE Y value.

After that I went to 70%IRE and tried to set the RGB values close to 100%.

I have only RGB gains. When I saw 40% to 80%IRE are more or less in the below 3 deltaE , I stopped the process.

Unfortunately I do not have RGB cuts to get all 10% to 100% IRE in a closer range.

I think I am not supposed to touch the green gain. But how much ever I tried with out touching the green, I couldn't get RGB to be near 100%. So I touched the green. I am not sure if that is reason luminance is low.

I apprecaite if you could provide me any suggestions to improve my gamma and luminance.

I just finished playing with an Infocus X1 calibration and to my surprise the presentation mode with the white segment on gave the best over all picture. I adjusted RGB, with red needing a lot of boost and green and blue a lot less. I don't have the numbers here but red was like 70 and blue/green around 43. You pretty much have to calibrate the X1 with two point gray scale, 30% and 80%, and be happy with something that is within 10% of the proper values.

Have you adjusted the Color control? I found it had to be turned up to 85 to provide proper reference color on my machine. I also found the color green is no where near the reference value, but the red and blue were spot on.

As I remember the gamma is not adjustable and is preset at 2.8, which gives some dark blacks.

Well, for starters the Presentation mode is probably not what you want for watching, unless you're watching a presentation (powerpoint)... I would bet that's what's causing you're gamma issues. Do you have grayscale sweeps of Film Mode or Video Mode? Or maybe one of the User Modes might have better gamma.
For viewing, I would be less concerned about small difference in light output vs the incredibly terribly gamma I think you have.
I've never worked with the HCFR DVD. I can't comment on how accurately any DVD player would convert PAL to NTSC, except to say that I personally wouldn't trust it.
It's generally accepted that using a pluge pattern is better than calculating .65% on the brightness setting.
Lastly, for now at least, it looks like your contrast is set a little high.

Well, for starters the Presentation mode is probably not what you want for watching, unless you're watching a presentation (powerpoint)... I would bet that's what's causing you're gamma issues. Do you have grayscale sweeps of Film Mode or Video Mode? Or maybe one of the User Modes might have better gamma.
For viewing, I would be less concerned about small difference in light output vs the incredibly terribly gamma I think you have.
I've never worked with the HCFR DVD. I can't comment on how accurately any DVD player would convert PAL to NTSC, except to say that I personally wouldn't trust it.
It's generally accepted that using a pluge pattern is better than calculating .65% on the brightness setting.
Lastly, for now at least, it looks like your contrast is set a little high.

Thank you for your valuable input. Please see attached file having the details for Film mode. I haven't touched any thing in this mode.

Is Film mode is the right place to start the calibration ?

I just finished playing with an Infocus X1 calibration and to my surprise the presentation mode with the white segment on gave the best over all picture. I adjusted RGB, with red needing a lot of boost and green and blue a lot less. I don't have the numbers here but red was like 70 and blue/green around 43. You pretty much have to calibrate the X1 with two point gray scale, 30% and 80%, and be happy with something that is within 10% of the proper values.

Have you adjusted the Color control? I found it had to be turned up to 85 to provide proper reference color on my machine. I also found the color green is no where near the reference value, but the red and blue were spot on.

As I remember the gamma is not adjustable and is preset at 2.8, which gives some dark blacks.

Thank you. I will give it a try.

I just finished playing with an Infocus X1 calibration and to my surprise the presentation mode with the white segment on gave the best over all picture.
Judging that how, with measurements or by eye? Is it an eye that's been trained by years of calibrating?
You pretty much have to calibrate the X1 with two point gray scale, 30% and 80%, and be happy with something that is within 10% of the proper values.
If it only has gain controls, with no bias/cut controls, how would you do a 2 point grayscale? I would think you'd have to stick with something in the middle, like 50%, or just the high end... perhaps there's an expert lurking who could answer that one...
As I remember the gamma is not adjustable and is preset at 2.8, which gives some dark blacks.

It would, I think, also give some blown out highlights... I don't see a gamma adjustment per se either, but perhaps "modes" have gamma preset to different levels?

Thank you for your valuable input. Please see attached file having the details for Film mode. I haven't touched any thing in this mode.

Is Film mode is the right place to start the calibration ?

Hmmm It's very difficult for me to say... I think the gamma looks like it might come out much better, but the light output is very lowand the red seems to be doing something very strange in the grayscale... The contrast clearly need to be turned down some, the good news is [right now] that shouldn't affect the light output any...

How does video mode measure?

Hmmm It's very difficult for me to say... I think the gamma looks like it might come out much better, but the light output is very lowand the red seems to be doing something very strange in the grayscale... The contrast clearly need to be turned down some, the good news is [right now] that shouldn't affect the light output any...

How does video mode measure?

I don't have the video mode measurements. Image looks more warm with video mode as well. Currently I am waiting for my Spyder3 meter from amazon. I will take the measurements once I get it and post it here.

I don't have the video mode measurements. Image looks more warm with video mode as well. Currently I am waiting for my Spyder3 meter from amazon. I will take the measurements once I get it and post it here.

Well, if you don't mind a little extra work in the interest of learning, I would certainly be interested in seeing how the Film mode calibrates...
OTOH, maybe we should investigate if you've got the meter setup properly for this work, as I'm confused by how little light you're measuring...

If you're getting an S3 anyway, you should consider getting it from Spectracal, where they test each one to decide whether it's good enough...

Well, if you don't mind a little extra work in the interest of learning, I would certainly be interested in seeing how the Film mode calibrates...
OTOH, maybe we should investigate if you've got the meter setup properly for this work, as I'm confused by how little light you're measuring...

If you're getting an S3 anyway, you should consider getting it from Spectracal, where they test each one to decide whether it's good enough...

Currently I do not have colorimeter with me. I borrowed last week end from a friend. I will do the measurement for video mode as well once I get the spyder3.

I am also surprised to see the low light output in film mode. For eyes image looks very dull. That is the reason I started to see if I can calibrate it in different mode.

I took the 100% IRE ratings for different presets and color temperatures. All readings were taken one after other from the same colorimeter position. Here you can see how it measures. I am hoping that I positioned the colorimeter correctly. Projector bulb had 1120 hours.

Preset : Film

Color Temp : Cool

Y= 25.932
ftL = 7.56


Preset : Film

Color Temp : Warm

Y= 29.527
ftL = 8.604


Preset : Film

Color Temp : Warmest

Y= 20.912
ftL = 6.104


Preset : Presentation

Color Temp : Warm

Y= 56.707
ftL = 16.541

Judging that how, with measurements or by eye? Is it an eye that's been trained by years of calibrating?

If it only has gain controls, with no bias/cut controls, how would you do a 2 point grayscale? I would think you'd have to stick with something in the middle, like 50%, or just the high end... perhaps there's an expert lurking who could answer that one...

It would, I think, also give some blown out highlights... I don't see a gamma adjustment per se either, but perhaps "modes" have gamma preset to different levels?

Judging by a Enhanced Spyder 3 colorimeter and my eye with the appropriate chart to adjust the 16 and 235 points. I used the primary/secondary charts to adjust the Color/Tint controls. I have calibrated several projectors.

You need to balance the two points. You only have the Gain controls so you want to get the 30 and 80% points as close as possible. That may mean under shooting one and over shooting the other. In general, the 30% gray is more obvious to the eye than the 80%. Don't use the 100% IRE because that is the least sensitive to color for your eye.

I think the gamma is fixed at 2.8 so you will just have to live with that.

I found the Film mode too dim for enjoyable viewing and I found the Presentation mode gave almost the same color calibration (after turning up the Color control and adjusting the Tint). The Presentation mode is often belittled because of its white segment, but I was surprised at how good it looks. Of course your eyes is naturally drawn to brightness so that is part of the attraction. Nonetheless, Presentation mode worked fine for calibration.

So it sounds like you both experienced too dim output for viewing in the modes other than presentaiton. I have no problem believing presentation mode is set for 2.8, I was just hoping that Film or Video mode woul dhave a lower gamma. that colorimeter orientaiton was exactly what I was referring to regarding making the msaurements. Since yo uused the guide, I'd like to assume thatyou went through the oreitnation section to make sure you were maximizing your readings, but it never hurts to ask. Sorry about the typos... ?How far were each of you from your screens when taking the measurements?

How far were each of you from your screens when taking the measurements?

I always use the colorimeter facing the projector for maximum light input. I don't find a big difference either way, but its easier to do the low light level if you face the projector.

I always use the colorimeter facing the projector for maximum light input. I don't find a big difference either way, but its easier to do the low light level if you face the projector.

Ok. So you're ignoring screen gain, making the absolute value of the Y you're reading irrelevant. Add to that the inaccuracies of the S2. di you play around with adjust the orientation of the meter as the guide suggests to make sure you're maximizing the light input ot the device? Have you tried watching anything in one of the lower-light modes and determined they're not bright enough?

Ok. So you're ignoring screen gain, making the absolute value of the Y you're reading irrelevant. Add to that the inaccuracies of the S2. di you play around with adjust the orientation of the meter as the guide suggests to make sure you're maximizing the light input ot the device? Have you tried watching anything in one of the lower-light modes and determined they're not bright enough?

My screen gain is 1 so its not a factor.

Calman has a settting to find the maximum light position.

The first thing I did was calibrate the film mode. Looked fine but a bit dim.

I was selling it so I decided to calibrate the presentation mode for composite since they planned to use that. To my surprise the colors were way off so I adjusted the primaries and secondaries and then it started to look really great. The final calibration wasn't great, but I watched Spyderman3 all the way through and was very pleased with how watchable it was.

I then flipped back to my settings for film mode and was disappointed how dim it looked; though the gray scale was better.

My screen gain is 1 so its not a factor.
Have you measured it? Or is that quoted by the mfr?
Calman has a settting to find the maximum light position.
So you played around with the orientation to maximize it?
The first thing I did was calibrate the film mode. Looked fine but a bit dim.

I was selling it so I decided to calibrate the presentation mode for composite since they planned to use that. To my surprise the colors were way off so I adjusted the primaries and secondaries and then it started to look really great. The final calibration wasn't great, but I watched Spyderman3 all the way through and was very pleased with how watchable it was.

I then flipped back to my settings for film mode and was disappointed how dim it looked; though the gray scale was better.

Well, if these are your options, then you stick with what looks best. I'd be interested in seeing video mode calibrated. I'd also be interested, if you're sticking with presentation mode, what the luminance curve (and gamma) looks like if you turn contrast down a couple clicks...

Here are the measurements with spyder3.

Preset : Film & warm setting seems to be having gamma close to 2.2

I used this preset to calibrate it.

Attached zip file having pre and post calibration files for the above preset.

Here are the measurements with spyder3.

Preset : Film & warm setting seems to be having gamma close to 2.2

I used this preset to calibrate it.

Attached zip file having pre and post calibration files for the above preset.

Sorry, but I seem to be computationally challenged today... I can't seem to open those files... I'll try again this weekend from home...

Here is the latest calibration file.

Spyder3 is very fast and I was able take readings for entire 10% to 100% IRE with in 2 to 3 minutes.

glaufman, thank you for your input on the contrast. For X1 that was the key to perform the accurate calibration.

You're welcome, but for now I'm still having trouble opening your files...

You're welcome, but for now I'm still having trouble opening your files...

Pls try to open the attached file.

Pls try to open the attached file.

NO good. Maybe it's my machine. I'll find someone else's file to try. P"art that stinks is every time it crashes I have to reboot to recover.

Nope, I seem to be able to open other's files fine...
Maybe I'm using an outdated version? What version HCFR are you running?
Looks like I'm still on 2.0.1...

The file opens fine for me. HCFR 2.1 with Vista.

Nope, I seem to be able to open other's files fine...
Maybe I'm using an outdated version? What version HCFR are you running?
Looks like I'm still on 2.0.1...

I am using version 2.1

I am using version 2.1

Alright. guess I'll have to find time to upgarde on this machine and see if that helps, or go to my other machine where I've already got 2.1...

Just so strange, I've opened a number of other people's file successfully this morning already...

OK. My machine here opens the files fine....
I suppose it's possible that this is the best grayscale/gamma you can do with the user contorls this offers... but utlimately the proof lies in the pudding, as they say, so...
you've now traded what appears to be a more accurate calibraiton for a handful of ftL...
Which way does it look better?
also, not sure, but you may benefit from yet another click down on the contrast... or not, ...

OK. My machine here opens the files fine....
I suppose it's possible that this is the best grayscale/gamma you can do with the user contorls this offers... but utlimately the proof lies in the pudding, as they say, so...
you've now traded what appears to be a more accurate calibraiton for a handful of ftL...
Which way does it look better?
also, not sure, but you may benefit from yet another click down on the contrast... or not, ...

With present calibration picture looks way better than factory settings. I tried decreasing/increasing contrast and took readings. Finally the one I posted gave me the best gamma and decent detla E readings.

I wish there is more ftl, but seems like that is the best I can do.

I tried to claibrate several other presets (presentation , video) etc, but gamma is way too bad. So I ended up with Film , warm setting.


Cartoon movies like Cars, Madagaskar II, Finding Nemo etc looks damn good.

Regular movies are good, but I wish there is more light.

With present calibration picture looks way better than factory settings. I tried decreasing/increasing contrast and took readings. Finally the one I posted gave me the best gamma and decent detla E readings.

I wish there is more ftl, but seems like that is the best I can do.

I tried to claibrate several other presets (presentation , video) etc, but gamma is way too bad. So I ended up with Film , warm setting.


Cartoon movies like Cars, Madagaskar II, Finding Nemo etc looks damn good.

Regular movies are good, but I wish there is more light.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you're about done for now, unless you can find a service menu with more controls...

I can't imagine why they wouldn't give full light output in all modes... it'd be one thing if the projector simply wasn't capable of it, but to do it in 1 mode but not the others is ???:confused:

I can't imagine why they wouldn't give full light output in all modes... it'd be one thing if the projector simply wasn't capable of it, but to do it in 1 mode but not the others is ???:confused:

This projector is the basic model from the manufacturer. May be that is the reason they limited the light output so it won't compete with thier mid level projectors.

I tired to search web to find out the way to get into service menu, but no luck.

Yeah, I know MFRs think that way, but I hate it. The projector is capable of it, so let it do it, or disable it for presentation mode too... ya know?

I had to hook up my old X1 while my 720p projector is out for repair, and the image/brightness sucks. I have to use Presentation mode to get extra brightness, and Cool temp. looks the least green. I have a problem with too much green I'm trying to correct. I only have RGB gain settings because I'm using the VGA/component input to my Blu-ray player. Can someone give me some advice on how to set the RGB gains to reduce the green? All I have is the Sound and Vision cal. disc with blue filter, and THX Optimizer with their glasses. Neither of these work with the RGB gain settings, do they? I tried tonight by eye without much luck. Thanks.

I had to hook up my old X1 while my 720p projector is out for repair, and the image/brightness sucks. I have to use Presentation mode to get extra brightness, and Cool temp. looks the least green. I have a problem with too much green I'm trying to correct. I only have RGB gain settings because I'm using the VGA/component input to my Blu-ray player. Can someone give me some advice on how to set the RGB gains to reduce the green? All I have is the Sound and Vision cal. disc with blue filter, and THX Optimizer with their glasses. Neither of these work with the RGB gain settings, do they? I tried tonight by eye without much luck. Thanks.

As you've seen, you can't really expect to get a decent grayscale calibration without a meter.

That's it? No tips, nothing to try?

That's it? No tips, nothing to try?

Sure. Try getting a meter :p
Seriously though, it's widely accepted that grayscale cannot be calibrated without a reference. These days that's usually a meter. It is possible to do with an optical comparator, i.e. a graycard and a D65 light, but by the time you're done finding those and paying for them and blacking out all the ambient light in your viewing environment, including the light from the tv itself, you may as well have bought a meter.

I had to hook up my old X1 while my 720p projector is out for repair, and the image/brightness sucks. I have to use Presentation mode to get extra brightness, and Cool temp. looks the least green. I have a problem with too much green I'm trying to correct. I only have RGB gain settings because I'm using the VGA/component input to my Blu-ray player. Can someone give me some advice on how to set the RGB gains to reduce the green? All I have is the Sound and Vision cal. disc with blue filter, and THX Optimizer with their glasses. Neither of these work with the RGB gain settings, do they? I tried tonight by eye without much luck. Thanks.

Check if you have any loose connection at component VGA adapter. May be Red is not passing through.

Try to connect using s-video or composite connections. If all looks greenish then you may have to go into the projector menu and try changing the RGB gain settings. See if you like what you see by doing so.

If you are not pleased , as other memeber indicated get a colrimeter (amazon have spyder3tv for decent price) which can be used with colorHCFR.

Hope this helps.

Thanks HDMI. It turns out I had the red comp. cable plugged into the wrong jack of my Blu-ray player.