hey, im looking at for a decent surge protector for my system, i would like one that i can put in my av rack, so i was looking at the belkin pure av series, my budget is aound 150 but if needed i will go to 200

this is the belkin i was looking at http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3956842&csid=ITD&body=QA#tabs

im not concerned with "clean power" because as far as im aware of there is no such thing, i just want somthing that will protect my investment, and keep the voltage from going too high or too low

any other options will be appreciated, as long as its better than the $20 surge protector that i currently am using :eek: :p

A clean used Panamax would be great for your needs. Try Audiogon.

hey, im looking at for a decent surge protector for my system, i would like one that i can put in my av rack, so i was looking at the belkin pure av series, my budget is aound 150 but if needed i will go to 200

this is the belkin i was looking at http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3956842&csid=ITD&body=QA#tabs

im not concerned with "clean power" because as far as im aware of there is no such thing, i just want somthing that will protect my investment, and keep the voltage from going too high or too low

any other options will be appreciated, as long as its better than the $20 surge protector that i currently am using :eek: :pYes. Better is a surge protector at the breaker panel connected to the main ground.

I recently purchased a Cyberpower surge protector for $20 and UPS for $40 through Amazon -- free shipping. The specs seem reasonable for the price. Here are the urls: surge protector (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008T1TZ/ref=ox_ya_oh_product), UPS (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001OYZTC/ref=ox_ya_oh_product).

Yes. Better is a surge protector at the breaker panel connected to the main ground.

i live in an apartment so i dont think thats really an option for me, it would be great to do tho as it would protect all of my electronics

Brick wall rack mount model (may be just out of your price range so could get it used). No M.O.Vs so it can absorb countless surge hits and still function like new. It is not just the big surges that cause damage to equipment and surge protectors over time, but the large amounts of small to medium surges which do no damage to non-M.O.V bases protectors. Different technology than most surge protectors and is similar to some of the Furmans. A used entry level Furman with series mode protection would be even better.

brickwall or surgeX use the same technology. SurgeX shows up on ebay in your price range..

i live in an apartment so i dont think thats really an option for me, it would be great to do tho as it would protect all of my electronics

If you live in an apartment, chances are they've already got several surge protectors at the main fuse box(es). Unless it's a super old apartment.

im not concerned with "clean power" because as far as im aware of there is no such thing, i just want somthing that will protect my investment, and keep the voltage from going too high or too low



Your voltage going too high or too low, without it being a real surge or a brownout, IS THE DEFINITION OF DIRTY POWER.

A line conditioning surge protector like you are looking for is what makes your power "clean". I know in my house the power fluctuates from 117v to 124v pretty much at all times. While this is within tolerances for 95% of electronics, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I'd just make sure whatever you buy has line conditioning and do a quick google search for the model and "review". So like "APC H-15 review" read what people say and go from there.

Panamax or iso-max. The mid-line Monsters are actually a decent value. About a hundred bucks for a quality unit. They will usually have an equipment warrantee included but read the fine print. Not easy to do a total protection, but you should, as that is what works. More that that you are getting advertising and fancy boxes. Nothing magic about power.

A $2 MOV is better than nothing. You know, the cheapest hardware store strip you can find. It will protect about anything with a large inefficient transformer.

i live in an apartment so i dont think thats really an option for me, it would be great to do tho as it would protect all of my electronics
Even in the 1970s, standards for 120 volts computer equipment defined internal protection at 600 volts. Today, that internal protection is even higher. Your only concern is a current that is even higher. The rare surge current that creates voltages so great as to overwhelm protection inside electronics.

Nothing plug-in will provide that protection. If in doubt, view the manufacturer numeric specs (ignore half truths from sales brochures). The typically destructive current that occurs maybe once every seven years is even completely ignored by plug-in protectors. Worse, plug-in protectors can even earth that current destructively through an adjacent appliance.

Effective protectors are located closer to earth and farther from the appliance it would protect. Anything that works on its power cord is already inside the appliances power supply. Your concern is only the rare surge.

Either that current gets earthed where it enters the building. Or it hunts for earth destructively via appliances. A protector adjacent to an appliance may even give that current more paths to find earth destructively via the appliance.

A cooperative landlord may install a 'whole house' protector in the breaker box. One can be purchased in Lowes for less than $50 for him to install. It is the superior solution. It costs tens or 100 times less money per protected appliance. And it also protects everything from every type of surge. It is the only solution that will protect from a rare surge that may overwhelm existing protection inside any appliance.

The power in the city where I live is notoriously "dirty"...fluctuations in voltage both high and low. I bought a Furman PST-8 conditioner and am pretty sure it was worth the hundred bucks paid. A month ago the Furman had tripped requiring me to reset it. I didn't think more about it until that evening when I noticed my iHome alarm was dead. I assume the house got hit by a spike as that's probably the only thing that would trip the conditioner and kill my alarm. Everything in my HT was just fine.

This model of Furman looks like a very large power strip with a metal case. 8 outlets, a telco and a coax filter...Have a look.

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=02&id=PST-8

The power in the city where I live is notoriously "dirty"...fluctuations in voltage both high and low. ... A month ago the Furman had tripped requiring me to reset it.
The type of 'spike' that would trip a Furman is a slow voltage change. If it exists, you also see incandescent lamps changing intensity. Do you?

That type of voltage change is often traceable to a human safety problem traceable to your breaker box, or how that breaker box connection to a nearby transformer is compromised. Again, it was not a rhetorical question. Do not ignore that phrase 'human safety problem'. Do lights change intensity - especially when some major appliance switches on or off?

The type of 'spike' that would trip a Furman is a slow voltage change. If it exists, you also see incandescent lamps changing intensity. Do you?

That type of voltage change is often traceable to a human safety problem traceable to your breaker box, or how that breaker box connection to a nearby transformer is compromised. Again, it was not a rhetorical question. Do not ignore that phrase 'human safety problem'. Do lights change intensity - especially when some major appliance switches on or off?

The only change in intensity I've ever noticed in my house (built 11 years ago) is this week...I got a second Hsu ULS-15 sub on Monday and now the lamp on my end table (set at the dimmest setting on the 3-way bulb) dimmed a little when the sound was up and the lightning strikes on "Ratatouille". Past that I've never seen a change in intensity and I am observant for that kind of thing.

Past that I've never seen a change in intensity and I am observant for that kind of thing.
Voltage variations that are perfectly acceptable to any electronics can also cause significant intensity changes on incandescent bulbs. A serious problem if those intensity changes coincide when some other appliance (anywhere in the house) power cycles. Even a laser printer starting to print should not cause a noticeable intensity change even if using 1940 wiring. Even old wiring should be more than sufficient.

Another problem can be identified by incandescent bulb life expectancy. View its box. A bulb rated for 600 hours (if used maybe four hours every night) should last five months - no matter how many times it is power cycled. What happens when AC mains is high - 126 volts rather than 120 volts? That bulb burns out in half that time. Even if that bulb burns out four times faster, voltage is still perfectly good power to all electronics. But the reason for frequent bulb replacement should be corrected.

Light bulb life expectancy is a method of identifying voltage problems that are eliminated by an electrician or the utility - not solved with plug-in devices.

Just a few symptoms that can identify AC mains problems. Problems that may be harmful to other electrical devices - and still not harmful to electronics. IOW how to identify a problem before it gets worse and causes failures.

brickwall or surgeX use the same technology. SurgeX shows up on ebay in your price range..

This is not entirely true. They both use series-mode surge suppression, but ZeroSurge, BrickWall, and Torus Power are licensees of SurgeX, not the other way around, and yes, SurgeX can take a 3000A, 6000V ( 18 million Watt ) spike and, unlike the other 3 companies, stop it dead in its tracks. No voltage whatsoever leaves the box, not on the ground or on the neutral wire like the other 3 companies. The other 3 companies are using old 1990's 2-wire series mode technology. SurgeX has gone way beyond that, and the other companies cannot use the new 3-wire technology because of the SurgeX patents.

For those of you in Hawaii, the Pacific North Western/ Hawaii region ( Washington State ) and National Sales representatives for SurgeX will be in Honolulu on business from Oct 26 to Oct 28. They can clear up the confusion that exists about any technological questions and the relationship between the 3 companies as well as a Canadian company, Torus Power. You can find his name and phone number on the surgeX.com web site.

This is not entirely true. They both use series-mode surge suppression, but ZeroSurge, BrickWall, and Torus Power are licensees of SurgeX, not the other way around, and yes, SurgeX can take a 3000A, 6000V ( 18 million Watt ) spike and, unlike the other 3 companies, stop it dead in its tracks. No voltage whatsoever leaves the box, not on the ground or on the neutral wire like the other 3 companies. The other 3 companies are using old 1990's 2-wire series mode technology. SurgeX has gone way beyond that, and the other companies cannot use the new 3-wire technology because of the SurgeX patents.

Is this true of all of the SurgeX products? Where does the voltage surge get dissipated?

DaveN - Is this true of all of the SurgeX products? Where does the voltage surge get dissipated?

The energy is stored in capacitors and then "worked to death" by triacs. Nothing leaves the box.

The energy is stored in capacitors and then "worked to death" by triacs. Nothing leaves the box.

What a load of BS. WTF does "worked to death by triacs" mean? The energy has to leave the box in some form.

According to the information on the SurgeX site, the energy is stored in capacitors then slowly released back to the neutral and hot conductors.

This is not entirely true. They both use series-mode surge suppression, but ZeroSurge, BrickWall, and Torus Power are licensees of SurgeX, not the other way around, and yes, SurgeX can take a 3000A, 6000V ( 18 million Watt ) spike and, unlike the other 3 companies, stop it dead in its tracks. No voltage whatsoever leaves the box, not on the ground or on the neutral wire like the other 3 companies. The other 3 companies are using old 1990's 2-wire series mode technology. SurgeX has gone way beyond that, and the other companies cannot use the new 3-wire technology because of the SurgeX patents.


The energy that enters the box has to go somewhere? Is it changed into light or heat or as the circuit topology suggests, dumped to another conductor! I will also reiterate the situation with these units as I have in the past....where is the standardized testing which shows the capabilities of these units. And by standard tests, I mean that I am looking for the standard third party tests as published by many of the 'other' manufacturers of surge suppression equipment.