Ok, I've been a member here for a fair amount of time. Not as long as some but not a newbie.
I come here daily just to read and get the upgrade bug. :) :)

It seems as though threads go south much quicker than they used to.
Either they turn into people nit picking a projector to death(ie...the RS35 thread, which i'm sure is a fabulous projector), or people ripping on each other for liking certain projectors.

It's just not as much fun as it used to be!! (ie...figuring out how to use filters to make a projector better, banter about how many Lumens are needed(Joe House), just more positive stuff!!

I'm not a stick in the mud and like to comment about a projector as much as the next guy but it seems as though it gets personal more than before.

OK enough of a rant, now let's all sing Kumbaya and watch a good movie.

I think the problem is the PJ forum is just catching up to where the Speakers and Subwoofers forums have been for the past few years!

I agree. We should watch a movie but on what projector would the movie look best? ;)

I agree. We should watch a movie but on what projector would the movie look best? ;)
Mine of course...:D

Mine of course...:D

No.....not on that POS, we should watch on mine. :D


I know exactly what you mean, it's almost like a bunch of religious zealots at times. :rolleyes:

Our love is not a victory march; its a cold and its a broken Hallelujah!!

I think the projectors are becoming so good, that the old splitting hairs has moved down to the nuclear science level. Does 582 lumines beat 591? Is 1,000,000 to 1 contrast really better 20,000 to 1 ANSI? Is 12 bit color better than 16 bit? :rolleyes:

It's a nice place to be picking from such a nice crop of wall illuminators. :eek:

Threads such as these don't spring up anymore,
"Pop Corn", Reviewing projectors I've never seen" and Canadians vs. Americans" are no more.
You partially hit on this forums mood shift Scotty. The disappearance of members like Jhouse,QQQ and a few others has largely contributed to the "stuffiness" the last few years. Sorry to say I agree, not much fun anymore.

I think that another problem is that any post about observations, adjustments or inventions that might enchance our projectors from a knowledgable DIY standpoint, has to make it past the self elected 'AVS technical commitee' of this sub forum
These particular people who were not 'technical' in the first place (but considered a high post count and a bullying attitude to be the same), stood on the back of others before them, who were knowledgeable, who were innovative, who did help the newbie, and unfortunately were driven away by same said cretins over the years.
These 'commitee' people need to move on, for the forum to return to its roots!.

I agree with most of this but remember it only takes one bad apple to spoil all the fun. I think we need to just learn to ignore the bad apples. There may not be that many out there, but everyone takes offense to them and it derails the threads.

When I fire up my projector and sit down, I watch the movie and not the picture produced by the projector. As long as the picture is pleasing to my eye after the initial calibration using inexpesive very user friendly software, I can enjoy the movie.

The picture projected may not be perfect for someone else's eyes, but is more than good enough for me and my family and friends.

I am however, quite particular that the sound is balanced properly when I sit in the sweet spot. Still I try not to listen to the speakers but listen to the sound.

I remember many, many , many years ago when I bought my first stereo amp and speakers, how for long hours I was listening to the speakers without hearing the music!

I think there are more than the usual amount of negative post and people misleading others.

I think the problem is the PJ forum is just catching up to where the Speakers and Subwoofers forums have been for the past few years!

That is a problem, IMO. There are objective ways that we can look at projectors by which we can judge which parts of them are good or bad or in between. Yes. This is hard to do and not everyone can do those things that are necessary to make comparisons. Still, without doing those things we just have a lot of opinions. How can you prove or disprove an opinion? So, threads head south as peopel fight about whether red or blue is a better color.

Still, IMO, this has really always been the case around here and thanks to the works of a few forum members like Darin, Mark Petersen, Greg Rogers and ohers, there is still a lot to be learned around here. In fact, there is an amazing amount that you can learn about image quality.

We are no longer in the DIY days where people were modding their projectors. That is a very good thing, IMO.

I think it is all the fault of 1080p. :) This group was a lot happier (and more interesting) when the Sanyo PLV-70 was the "brightest" thing around (the clone of which I still have up and running).

On a more serious note, the overall global mood is not the best right now, and a lot of people don't have the time or money anymore to play around with their home theaters. I see this mood reflected at the office, on the golf course (on those very rare chances I get to play) and (I believe) on this and other forums as well.

I've been on this forum, in various guises, for 10 years and there seems, to me at least, to be a pretty predictable ebb and flow concerning the "tone" here. Ten years ago it was very congenial; however, by 2001 the CRT and Lcos guys were consistently at each others' throats on a day to day basis. What's really decreased the rancor around here is that the CRT guys, for the most part, are no longer in denial - denial that CRT isn't commercially dead and denial that digital actually isn't overall a much better option for just about everyone. The only people who will still argue about this are the few who have a vested interest in CRT (like me :D).

Just after 911 things went crazy here and a separate subsection was created just so people could vent. Then there was the Panamorph debacle and lots of anger until that was finally resolved. There was some controversy over the splitting of the digital forum into over and under $3,000. Actually things are pretty tame here - relatively speaking.

I find everyone in the projector forums to be polite and i don't see any troubles. I guess i don't hang out in this part of the forum enough to notice the little things. I feel the same way aout the subwoofer forum.

Now for bickering and conflict you should try the Blu Ray software forum and find any picture comparison thread. Now some of them can get ugly but you just have to remember that passion for your hobby is a good thing and passionate debates and arguments can be great and sometimes very constructive although you have to try and keep the personal comments out of it.

The forum used to be enthusiasts helping other enthusiasts, but recently it's become a virtual sales floor. Dealers are using the forums to sell their gear. A projector comes out, the dealer gets it, reviews it and of course it gets a glowing review. Hype builds, everyone has to get one. Suggest caution, reason, or anything that slows down the hype machine and threaten sales and the "collective" moves in to remove doubt. Don't be so serious... it's only $8,000. Who cares if it's an upgrade or not, just buy now. Don't worry about the differences... it's a fine PJ, but don't expect too much. Return policy?... we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. A lot of people have gotten burned over the years, and people are a lot more careful now especially with the bad economy.

The forum used to be enthusiasts helping other enthusiasts, but recently it's become a virtual sales floor. Dealers are using the forums to sell their gear. A projector comes out, the dealer gets it, reviews it and of course it gets a glowing review. Hype builds, everyone has to get one. Suggest caution, reason, or anything that slows down the hype machine and threaten sales and the "collective" moves in to remove doubt. Don't be so serious... it's only $8,000. Who cares if it's an upgrade or not, just buy now. Don't worry about the differences... it's a fine PJ, but don't expect too much. Return policy?... we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. A lot of people have gotten burned over the years, and people are a lot more careful now especially with the bad economy.

Robin Williams once observed that "cocaine is Gods' way of saying you have too much money". Much the same can be said about $8000 projectors!

Robin Williams once observed that "cocaine is Gods' way of saying you have too much money". Much the same can be said about $8000 projectors!

I bet they're both equally hard to give up, once you're hooked though. :D

Threads such as these don't spring up anymore,
"Pop Corn", Reviewing projectors I've never seen" and Canadians vs. Americans" are no more.
You partially hit on this forums mood shift Scotty. The disappearance of members like Jhouse,QQQ and a few others has largely contributed to the "stuffiness" the last few years. Sorry to say I agree, not much fun anymore.Totally agree. I miss those guys and others too.
I've learned a lot on AVS over years and have actually made friends.
Problem to me is there are so many "experts" that don't know sh!t.
I don't know sh!t either but I'm smart enough to listen to those that do.
A lot of the real experts have had enough and got tired of the bs.

This forum has helped me buy great projectors, design my theater, pick the best popcorn etc. etc. I have been on it for 10 years also and have found it invaluable. While the tone gets out of hand every once in awhile - most everyone is helpful. I definitely agree that one should not try to be an expert - when you are not. There is a lot to learn from the experts here and every once in a while contribute when you actually have knowledge.

my prediction is that with the intro of the AE4000 and futue PJ's like it, this 'above $3K' sub forum is going to slowly fade away, not completely, but it's going to hit a point where there's only a small amount of followers...

with PJ prices going down so fast, before you know it, there won't be much missing from the sub $3K PJ's compared to the above $3K, the quality will be negligible and for 90% of the folks, it'll be plenty for them...

just a thought...

but i concur with Richard, even tho i'm still newbie'ish, I appreciate this forum...it's what introduced me to my new baby, the Pro8100...:D

I think the main reason people are more 'nit-picky' than they used to be is that there are less observable differences between price points for projectors these days. It seems the smaller the differences in the technology, the more people need to justify their viewpoint!

2006:
Marantz 11S1 - 1080p 6500:1 CR (native probably lower) 700 lumens
$20000

2009:
Mitsubishi HC3800 - 1080p, 4000:1 Native CR, 1300 lumens
$1400

(Waiting for Marantz dealer to chime in with lens quality, colour wheel etc... :rolleyes:)

I think the economy is to blame. With the current job market, people have more time on their hands. People are spending more time at home, on their computers, drinking and posting rants in a drunken stuper.:rolleyes:

I think the issue is slightly overblown; this forum is VERY valuable in helping A/V enthusiasts like myself to help make informed buying decisions.

As in real life, you have to filter out the noise. After you do however, there is still LOTS of useful information.:)

What has happened is Front Projectors has went from "Elite" to "J6P".
More and more regular people who could not afford the are (were) getting them. Look at the price/performance ratio these days!

This in turn will attract more personality types to the party. Its not just for videophiles anymore...

PS complaining and posting about this new wave of user is just as bad as what you are complaining about. Listen to what some of you are saying?! The fact that there is a thread about it is equal or a worse offense than what you were pissed about in the first place!

my prediction is that with the intro of the AE4000 and futue PJ's like it, this 'above $3K' sub forum is going to slowly fade away, not completely, but it's going to hit a point where there's only a small amount of followers...

with PJ prices going down so fast, before you know it, there won't be much missing from the sub $3K PJ's compared to the above $3K, the quality will be negligible and for 90% of the folks, it'll be plenty for them...

just a thought...

but i concur with Richard, even tho i'm still newbie'ish, I appreciate this forum...it's what introduced me to my new baby, the Pro8100...:D

This argument has been made in other guises for the last several years with the introduction of ever cheaper and better-performing LCD projectors. Every year, people think that these projectors will drain market share away from projectors costing $3K-$8K. This has yet to happen, and there's one simple reason: there will always be a market for those willing to pay more for better performance. This stands true whether you're talking about a $6K projector or a $60K projector. The Panny AE3000 (and now the AE4000), although they're great projectors, will never offer the PQ of an RS20 or RS35. The increase in PQ is not linear with the price of these projectors, but there is a certain group of people who sees the value in paying 2X or 3X more for a non-proportional (but still significant) increase in PQ.

As stranger89 observed, the biggest thing that a projector like the AE4000 will do for the market is provide a value that entices those into FP that otherwise wouldn't consider it, and that's definitely a good thing.

I think the main reason people are more 'nit-picky' than they used to be is that there are less observable differences between price points for projectors these days. It seems the smaller the differences in the technology, the more people need to justify their viewpoint!

2006:
Marantz 11S1 - 1080p 6500:1 CR (native probably lower) 700 lumens
$20000

2009:
Mitsubishi HC3800 - 1080p, 4000:1 Native CR, 1300 lumens
$1400

(Waiting for Marantz dealer to chime in with lens quality, colour wheel etc... :rolleyes:)

Although you may scoff at the difference between "un-spec'd" things like quality optics and higher graded DMDs (or display panels), these do make a significant difference in PQ. I used to mostly dismiss these variables as well until I had the chance to have a Sim2 HT3000E (a current gen $20K 1080p projector) in my house for the last several months. After having had a chance to do some critical viewing and comparisons with both a Pioneer FPJ1 and a BenQ W20000, I can say without a doubt that all that extra money spent on optics, display panels, and processing DOES make a difference. Again, that difference is not linearly proportional to the increase in PQ, but the resulting picture is definitely more refined, detailed, and cleaner looking.

That doesn't mean that everyone has to spend $20K to get a good picture - it is amazing how far digital projectors have come since the beginning of the decade - but I can certainly understand why those who have the money spend it.

For some, the difference between the original Marantz 11S1 and the Mitsubishi HC3800 would be worth $18600. More power to you if you have $20k disposable cash to drop on one.

Personally, I think when the performance to price ratio of technology reaches non-linear levels, you are land of 'man-jewellery'

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go and gold plate all my HDMI cables :p

For some, the difference between the original Marantz 11S1 and the Mitsubishi HC3800 would be worth $18600. More power to you if you have $20k disposable cash to drop on one.

Maybe, but then again it's a comparison between a 2 generation old projector an a current gen projector. Back when the 11S1 was new, it was quite cutting edge; now that kind of cash will buy you far more performance, certainly more than the HC3800 can offer. People in 2 or 3 years will probably compare the specs of the latest budget machine to a VP-11S2 and say "look, now you can get the exact same performance for a small fraction of the cost." At that point, I'd refer them to the "non spec'ed" differences between machines which DO make a difference in PQ.

Personally, I think when the performance to price ratio of technology reaches non-linear levels, you are land of 'man-jewellery'

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go and gold plate all my HDMI cables :p

I agree in part - there is a certain amount of status that goes with owning a projector that costs multiple tens of thousands of dollars. But again, as you said those people have the money to burn and there still is a certain level of PQ improvement/refinement that they're getting with those machines. I don't know if I'll ever be at a level of income where I can afford to buy those kinds of machines every couple years. But I'm content with my current choice - the RS35 - and certainly don't feel the need to bemoan those who are paying 5x-10x more on truly high-end machines.

A random observation:

I think part of the issue with PJs (and other areas of AVSforums, not just the display forums) is that they are becoming more mainstream, as others have already commented. But a different issue aside from the lowly J6P (as someone termed them) coming in and sullying what “should be” a high brow conversation about the more enlightened things in life (like 10 pages bicker-fests about the difference in fill-factor between LCOS and DLP…) is the issue of the “experts” (either self proclaimed or ones that are proclaimed by their peers) can not grasp that these J6P are not in it to get *every* last drop of performance physically possible from this or that activity.

How many times have you seen a post started by a “J6P” that just asks for rudimentary explanations about a general PJ topic before they spend $3000 for a PJ turn into some E-geek throwdown about how they really should be looking at better PJs to put behind this or that $8,000 A-lens that they didn’t have a hope of fitting in their budget, really don’t *need* and really won’t value as much as the “Pros” might?

In the end, with PJs (and home theater in general) becoming more mainstream, people need to accept that there will be differing levels of conversation and the correct answer to every question isn’t automatically “whatever gives you *the best* picture at any cost.” I think it would cut down a lot on the threads where some J6P writes in to say that $8,000 is a lot of money, just to have two or three “experts” look down their nose at him and make comments to the effect that he should try a little harder to keep his knuckles from dragging on the ground…

-Suntan

Although it is not technically in the 3K PJ forum, I humbly submit this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1186812) as direct evidence for my previous observation. :rolleyes:

-Suntan

A random observation:

<snip>

-Suntan

well said!

The forum used to be enthusiasts helping other enthusiasts, but recently it's become a virtual sales floor. Dealers are using the forums to sell their gear. A projector comes out, the dealer gets it, reviews it and of course it gets a glowing review. Hype builds, everyone has to get one. Suggest caution, reason, or anything that slows down the hype machine and threaten sales and the "collective" moves in to remove doubt. Don't be so serious... it's only $8,000. Who cares if it's an upgrade or not, just buy now. Don't worry about the differences... it's a fine PJ, but don't expect too much. Return policy?... we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. A lot of people have gotten burned over the years, and people are a lot more careful now especially with the bad economy.

Every now and then, this sure seems to be the angle.

Too bad we can't have a full disclosure requirement for members to show various vested interests.:D

Every now and then, this sure seems to be the angle.

Too bad we can't have a full disclosure requirement for members to show various vested interests.:D

Agreed. :)

My take is after being a member for x number of years you simply get tired of members repeating their same mantra (beliefs) time after time in untold number of threads. It becomes old... and you know the contents of almost any thread way before ever clicking on it.

I think Charles brings up a good point. The only thing I'll add is that many years ago the forum was dominated by people exchanging tips and tweaks that could make a difference in image quality. People still share information, but the technology is much more plug and play and the overall percentage of posts devoted to tweaks and setup is tiny compared to the posts of projector x vs projector y. I think by now we know the strengths and weaknesses of DLP, LCOS, LCD, etc., so most of what is posted is a rehash.

I think Charles brings up a good point. The only thing I'll add is that many years ago the forum was dominated by people exchanging tips and tweaks that could make a difference in image quality. People still share information, but the technology is much more plug and play and the overall percentage of posts devoted to tweaks and setup is tiny compared to the posts of projector x vs projector y. I think by now we know the strengths and weaknesses of DLP, LCOS, LCD, etc., so most of what is posted is a rehash.

I think you hit the nail on the head Mark. It's probably a combination of the hobby going mainstream (and therefore the newer hobbyist (lack of) desire to eek out the next performance percentage) and the plug and play nature of the latest products coming out.

The challenge we as moderators have to make AVS accessable to the newer members of the hobby, but still interesting to those who have extensive experience and/or daily/long time users of AVS.

I was going to post something like Mark, but he beat me to it. One other thing is when you have 1 or 2 models that dominates then you will get a lot of experts that spent a lot of time with that specific PJ and they can assist with everything from major issues to minor issues.

When you get lots of brands and models then it is harder to assist with minor setup tips etc. You will get more "uneducated" assistance that may or may not help you

With all that said -- if you have been here for years it is possible that you have changed as much or more than the thread. You think things aren't that interesting because you have read it a few times. For people that are new to this area of the forum (ie me) there is a lot of valuable information here and lots of friendly and unfriendly advice. Personally I don't care about the tone that a message is delivered in as long as it is useful.

There are plenty of us with our first HT that are loving the advice and discussions here.

Although it is not technically in the 3K PJ forum, I humbly submit this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1186812) as direct evidence for my previous observation. :rolleyes:

-Suntan

The only evidence I see, of anything, is that after posting that link you went back to that thread and posted a baseless, ill informed, attack on one of the AVS' most respected posters.

Your ill intentioned gall is wretch inducing.

The only evidence I see, of anything, is that after posting that link you went back to that thread and posted a baseless, ill informed, attack on one of the AVS' most respected posters.

Your ill intentioned gall is wretch inducing.

I guess we can smell our own then, can't we? :rolleyes:

-Suntan

The only evidence I see, of anything, is that after posting that link you went back to that thread and posted a baseless, ill informed, attack on one of the AVS' most respected posters.

Your ill intentioned gall is wretch inducing.

I guess we can smell our own then, can't we?

-Suntan


This just proves my original premise!!!


Scott

I think is a tough issue to resolve or even bring clarity to....

I think the heart of this discussion lies in a couple of threads that were discussed in the accessories forum a while back, the topic being define a "home theater". You'll have those with HTIB that fits in their living rooms to those with $100,000 plus spent in a dedicated room. Is there a place for both at AVS? Of course there is..but just as we can't belittle those who live within their means relative to the hobby...it's also not appropriate to throw stones and use terms like "the haves" to those who have the means and the interest in creating a state of the art theater.

Do I love my theater for it's performance as well as it's "value" relative to my earnings?...damn right I do.

Can my theater compare performance wise to some of the best theaters owned by other members? NO, it does not. I would be delusional to think it does.

Does that make mine less of a postive experience for me? No. But, I don't attack those who know more or have more than me either.

A random observation:

I think part of the issue with PJs (and other areas of AVSforums, not just the display forums) is that they are becoming more mainstream, as others have already commented. But a different issue aside from the lowly J6P (as someone termed them) coming in and sullying what “should be” a high brow conversation about the more enlightened things in life (like 10 pages bicker-fests about the difference in fill-factor between LCOS and DLP…) is the issue of the “experts” (either self proclaimed or ones that are proclaimed by their peers) can not grasp that these J6P are not in it to get *every* last drop of performance physically possible from this or that activity.

How many times have you seen a post started by a “J6P” that just asks for rudimentary explanations about a general PJ topic before they spend $3000 for a PJ turn into some E-geek throwdown about how they really should be looking at better PJs to put behind this or that $8,000 A-lens that they didn’t have a hope of fitting in their budget, really don’t *need* and really won’t value as much as the “Pros” might?

In the end, with PJs (and home theater in general) becoming more mainstream, people need to accept that there will be differing levels of conversation and the correct answer to every question isn’t automatically “whatever gives you *the best* picture at any cost.” I think it would cut down a lot on the threads where some J6P writes in to say that $8,000 is a lot of money, just to have two or three “experts” look down their nose at him and make comments to the effect that he should try a little harder to keep his knuckles from dragging on the ground…

-Suntan

Have you been on the receiving end of such treatment, or are you just painting with a broad brush so that you can justify your position? I've seen plenty of threads where people asked for help and were given lots of great information. The fact that that isn't always the case is the fault of particular individuals and not a commentary on the AVS community as a whole.

Although it is not technically in the 3K PJ forum, I humbly submit this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1186812) as direct evidence for my previous observation. :rolleyes:

-Suntan

Art has never been anything but helpful, except towards said "particular individuals". Anyone who knows him personally - to include people like myself who only know him through the forums - know that he's an honest, stand up guy and a real asset to AVS. I'll chalk your characterization of him as being otherwise up to your ignorance rather than assume that you're one of the aforementioned troglodytes here intent on ruining the forums.

I'm going to take the opportunity to mention one of the things I find interesting/funny that I see here sometimes. It is what looks to me like a position that anybody who doesn't buy a projector as good as they have has something wrong with them because they should really strive to get something that good, but if the person wants something better then they are just being anal and there is something wrong with them for that too. As I've mentioned before (at least offline), if people aren't very picky they didn't need to spend over $2500 last year (and likely less). Most people would have been blown away by a $2500 projector from 2008. And if people aren't picky they can just go buy something. No need to really sweat it (other than things like making sure the throw ratio works for the setup).

I find some of the arguments that some of us are just too anal about picture quality details funny on a forum like this when they come from people who shouldn't have spent as much as they did if they weren't anal about picture quality to some degree. Or from people at companies who wouldn't be selling much product if people weren't anal about picture quality, but then complain that people are too anal when pointing out deficiencies in their projectors. If people didn't see deficiencies then they would be crazy to spend over a couple thousand dollars (although there are cases where more light output is really required for a specific setup).

I sometimes see arguments along the lines that people should watch the content and not the deficiencies and so there must be something wrong with people who see deficiencies with product x. Yet they chose x (or sell x) for significantly more money than models that would make the average person ecstatic. So, if people should just be watching the content and not pay attention to deficiencies, why is it that they should spend the extra money?

To most of the world a $2000 projector would be a huge luxury, so any of us spending that much are already in that category. From there different people will be comfortable at different points within that luxury class.

--Darin

i guess we can smell our own then, can't we? :rolleyes:

-suntan

Q.E.D.

With each new, and increasingly putrid, post, you expose yourself as nothing more than a resentful underachiever.

Judging by the responses, others certainly agree.

Or from people at companies who wouldn't be selling much product if people weren't anal about picture quality, but then complain that people are too anal when pointing out deficiencies in their projectors.

How true. Talk about biting the hand that feeds them and I know exactly which company you are referring to ;)

I remember when I first found AVS in 1999.
I wasn't into projectors then but "knew" I wanted a Mits RPTV.
There was plenty of back and forth then as now and maybe my total newness colored my perpective, but people then didn't seem to make personal attacks on other members they disagreed with it.
Also, industry types who were here, were treated with a measure of deference.
Most of the company reps have been chased off of the forum by really mean-spirited attacks.
What I don't like is when people take it personally AND when someone who works as a professional in the industry or other very knowledgeable members post things they cannot accept because they are convinced in their own mind that they're right or in actually are in over their head and can't admit it(tbrunet anyone?)
Look at the Sherwood thread, look at the AE4000 is King thread.
Snarky posters who insult you and bang an emoticon after every sentence like some frigtard OCD 3rd grader.
Other than that, I love this place and visit darn near every day.

Interesting thread. Thanks Scott!

Koombaya my lord, koombaya. Koombaya my lord, koombaya. Oh lord koombaya.

The flaws in this forum are the same as those we see in people in every day life. People here are all interested in accomplishing certain things. Here, let's say that the most common thing is to have a front projection system. People are willing to devote different amounts of effort and resoures to the task. We all use our brains and try to proceed rationally. Sometimes our path is clear. Sometimes it is not. Along the way there are many different decisions that we make. What technology (DLP , LCOS LCD)? What screen? What receiver? What speaker? The list goes on.

We all make decisions that seem right for us. The mistake that we make is thinking that what is right for us is right for everyone. If you look at any of the various "which projector is right for me" threads, I would bet that the correleation between ownership and recommendation is probably over 90%. In other words, more than 90% of the time, a recommender tells the poster to buy the same thing that the recommender owns. Then, the remaining 10% is largely comprised of people saying "don't get the thing I bought" because they got a bad one or were mistreated by the manufacturer.

Maybe I am crazy but I find that, if set up properly and in the right environment, most projectors that I see, regardless of cost, throw pictures that are very good or better. At the same time, no projector is perfect, regardless of cost. Today, you cannot buy a perfect projector. We all live with the compromises we make. Some people admit to them. Some don't.

There are still differences that make one projector objectively better in a certain area than another. We are all trying to see through the hype, both positive and negative, and make the choices that are right for us.

I see so much hype whether it comes from owners or dealers or people with axes to grind that it it really interferes with the decision making process.

koombaya my lord, koombaya. Koombaya my lord, koombaya. Oh lord koombaya.

lol

It is what looks to me like a position that anybody who doesn't buy a projector as good as they have has something wrong with them because they should really strive to get something that good, but if the person wants something better then they are just being anal and there is something wrong with them for that too.

--Darin

This is spot on. I think it is tied to the fact that a lot of people overspend compared to what they can afford. Since they already stretched the budget they have to believe that they bought the best thing out there. Anything better simply wouldn't have been worth it AND anything less would have been significantly worse (why else overspend the budget)..... This kind of justification will get this country in trouble after awhile..........oh wait already happened


Koombaya my lord, koombaya. Koombaya my lord, koombaya. Oh lord koombaya.

I thought you would have gone with "We shall overcome"...... - tänk Rinkeby och Friggebo :D (sorry Swedish "joke")

Talk about banal banality. Its not Koombaya its Kumbaya sometimes also appropriately spelled Kum Bay Ya. The thread should now gravitate towards We Shall Overcome (edit I wrote this before the above post, great minds obviously sometimes think the same). Another title could be Where have all the flowers gone?

My current projector exceeds my room's capabilities. Aside from the occasional check in to see what's new, I really don't post much here, since I won't be changing the room in the foreseeable future. There may be others who used to post who are in similar positions (happy at home watching movies). I also think that a lot of the "tweaks" that used to be discussed here now have dedicated homes in other forums (e.g., CIH, Calibration). What's left are discussions of specific models that seem more evolutionary than revolutionary (maybe in a few more generations the high refresh rate frame interpolation will look good to me, and I'll start shopping again...).

Yup. Things have changed. I use to sign in as Jmartin in the past and couldn't get same name after my move to idaho. I remember having great exchanges when I first posted back in 1998... Mark Foster era when JVC G15 was king and Mark and the other Mark (can't remember his name but very helpful, designed a test pattern to synchronized our Dilas) were quite helpful. Now its hit or miss. I recently posted in the Ultra expensive forum and not one single bone thrown. Oh well, that will teach me to lurk outside my financial box.

Jaime

I just stumbled onto this thread and enjoyed reading over it; lots of thoughtful comments and observations.

I just stumbled onto this thread and enjoyed reading over it; lots of thoughtful comments and observations.

This is exactly what almost all threads used to be like; "Lot's of thoughtful comments and observations, an enjoyment to read!!!!!"

It seems as though now that the forum is more "mainstream" the threads end up more mainstream and for some reason, mainstream feeds on negativity.
I don't know why because I think as a people we are not negative, maybe I'm mistaken.

Scott

I see changes in terms of people discussing tweaks. As others have pointed out, there used to be lots of discussion in the AV world about tweaking and dialing in of AV components - from all the tweaks done to CRT RPTVs/Projectors, to tweaks for digital RPTVs, to tweaks for getting the source material up to snuff. There were lots of discussions for tweaking DVD quality via choice of cables, or choosing the right DVD player, or doing SDI mods etc. So it was a real enthusiast/hobby thing. Now with Blu Ray and pure digital connections the tweaking has mostly gone out of the hobby, leaving us with whatever the manufacturers give us to work with.

As far as the general attitudes of the people on AVS go, I notice no difference. If anything, coming from years on the flat panel forums, the atmosphere is downright genial on the projector forums. Since the day I joined AVS in the flat panel forum there were constant arguments and belittling going on over various technologies or even brand vs brand battles. If anything when I visit the flat panel forum I see a bit less of that than before.

For every good post their is a bad one.Seems to me it has allways been like that here and on every other forum I visit.For instance their are many posting calibration tips and other helpfull info on setting up a fp'.And their are some who post here that just post to piss people off.Like in the 2 channel stereo thead.Their is allway a few who think every amp is the same'A $100 amp sounds as good as a $3000.And their is a guy who I will not mention that is posting in every thread that a old 720fp ae900 is as good as all the new 1080p.And by buying a colormeter you can make a old fp as good as any of the new 1080p.That is just wrong info.But I find plenty of good info here.Just have to dig a little.And I vote the HT Design and construction thread the best for so many people helping others.I have never seen a attack post their.Just my thoughts

Another thought: There are three hobbies here: 1. Buying stuff and building and tinkering with a home theater. 2.) Watching movies. 3.) Hanging out on AVSForum and talking about stuff. For me the first and third hobbies were more fun when I was fooling with a G15 and some great people were lending their expertise. It was like the old guy pulling in Chicago on his crystal set and hollering for the wife to hear. The second hobby, watching movies, is pretty darn wonderful with the quality of the projectors available now. I mean no criticism of the forum. Its just that that there is so much less room for the hobbiest to make exciting improvement in HT projection. I come on the forum now to get reviews of projectors and other stuff. I used to come on to find out how to build a a box to quiet my loud G15 or run in some new software to tweak the picture for an anamorphic lens. It's a different time. THe hobby has matured.

My current projector exceeds my room's capabilities.Do you have lights on or light coming in? The reason I ask is that even people who have been in the industry a long time have made the mistake of thinking that a light colored room must be the limitation for on/off CR when it is really the limiting factor for ANSI CR, not on/off CR, unless there is other lighting. Even a light colored room can support basically infinite on/off CR and so the on/off CRs of these digitals is limiting if there isn't other lighting. Of course, as ANSI CR is reduced it means that ANSI CR becomes the limitation for intra-image CR in more scenes and means that on/off CR advantages can't come through as often, but they can still come through to some degree even in a light colored room without other lighting. I would be less inclined to upgrade for a light colored room than a black room as far as CR just because of less visible benefit, but that isn't quite like no visible benefit.

--Darin

Another thought: There are three hobbies here: 1. Buying stuff and building and tinkering with a home theater. 2.) Watching movies. 3.) Hanging out on AVSForum and talking about stuff. For me the first and third hobbies were more fun when I was fooling with a G15 and some great people were lending their expertise. It was like the old guy pulling in Chicago on his crystal set and hollering for the wife to hear. The second hobby, watching movies, is pretty darn wonderful with the quality of the projectors available now. I mean no criticism of the forum. Its just that that there is so much less room for the hobbiest to make exciting improvement in HT projection. I come on the forum now to get reviews of projectors and other stuff. I used to come on to find out how to build a a box to quiet my loud G15 or run in some new software to tweak the picture for an anamorphic lens. It's a different time. THe hobby has matured.

OK, This is one of the best posts I've ever read at AVS. For the people that have been here a while this is SO true.

Gives me a whole new perspective.

Scott

I agree with Art, the hobby has matured\changed greatly and AVS has changed with the hobby.
Too bad a certain portion of the membership hasn't matured at the same rate;)

Do you have lights on or light coming in? The reason I ask is that even people who have been in the industry a long time have made the mistake of thinking that a light colored room must be the limitation for on/off CR when it is really the limiting factor for ANSI CR, not on/off CR, unless there is other lighting. Even a light colored room can support basically infinite on/off CR and so the on/off CRs of these digitals is limiting if there isn't other lighting. Of course, as ANSI CR is reduced it means that ANSI CR becomes the limitation for intra-image CR in more scenes and means that on/off CR advantages can't come through as often, but they can still come through to some degree even in a light colored room without other lighting. I would be less inclined to upgrade for a light colored room than a black room as far as CR just because of less visible benefit, but that isn't quite like no visible benefit.
No dedicated room for me. Our HT is also the living room, and we have both pretty poor light control and several light colored surfaces (white ceiling, "maize" colored wall, etc.). There are a few obvious changes to make, but those are "off limits". That being said, if I park the anal retentiveness, then it's still a pretty great movie viewing experience.

Jaime - You are most likely thinking of Mark Hunter who did some pretty good work with the JVC D-ILAs.

Bill

Not only has the hobby matured, but there are fewer tweak-to-get-more-bang-for-your-buck projectors out there. With CPUs, every so often there is (was) one that is highly over-clockable, so everyone looking for a loophole of sorts would go get that. With projectors it is slight different, but hopefully you can see what I mean.

The technology has made it so that you can get much better than "good enough" for under $2K. Let's say that you can get 95% performance at that price point, whereas years ago you could only get 75% performance. My first projector was the Infocus 4805. It was only 480p, but it could be had for $1200. The next upgrade was either a business projector or something more than $2000.

Now there are a ton of excellent offerings under $2000, and you can get solid, 1080p performance for very close to what I paid for my 4805. (That is awesome by the way). Getting to the OP's comments, these projectors don't require many tweaks any more. I'd also state that, like the low-rez MP3s phenomenon, good enough is good enough.

My $0.02

The other part worth mentioning is that as you become more conversant about the ins and outs, some of the tweaks that were brand new revelations to you become old hat and less interesting. The bickering posts are more dramatic, so probably stick with you a bit more.

I read the over $3k forum because its the area where PJ trends are discussed the most. When I buy for the next room, I'll almost certainly street below that price point, but if I want to be able to make an informed purchase I pop in here from time-to-time to see what the flavor of the month is, usually around CEDIA, which didn't seem to bring a lot of energy to the forum this year.

...the other Mark (can't remember his name but very helpful, designed a test pattern to synchronized our Dilas)...
Jaime

Mark Rejhon (http://www.marky.com/main/index.html)

I still use that picture (although slightly edited) as my htpc desktop - even though I've had a digital connection for years.

I don't normally post in the $3k+ forum but I'll add my thoughts. I'm on here to learn, help and get a few laughs in whenever possible. I think AVS is (and will continue to be) one of the best communities out there and I'm constantly amazed at the knowledge and intelligence of many of the AVS members. Reading reviews, tweaks, interesting topics, etc. is great, but sharing knowledge and troubleshooting is what makes AVS a community as opposed to just a forum (IMO). If I run into any issue with AV equipment I'm sure I'll find an answer/solution on here, and in the future I'll pass that knowledge on to any others that need it. Regardless of any bickering, alternative motives, incorrect info, etc., that "I know this and I'm going to help this person" attitude will keep me a happy AVS member for many years to come. Just my $.02.

One recent example of where the Forum performed in 1st class style was re the CMS issues of the RS20 projector (before its FW update). Lovingdvd, Lawguy, and others performed heroic and useful service for many of us by their efforts and careful reporting of them. Another was with the FW upgrades to the Onkyo 805 (and other) AVRs, where Joerod and others worked out how to do this (when Onkyo itself was totally unhelpful).

This sort of info seems to be esp useful in the first 6 months or less of a popular new product hitting users; there are typically a number of glitches that the knowledgeable enthusists here jump into and solve. Thank goodness for them!



My experience has been that the most useful info happens with new products, within 3-4 months after they first hi

There are still some valuable break-in/calibration/tweaking data and tips being exchanged in the plasma section. HTPCs will likely always be extremely tweakable as well. Then there are the DIY screen painting threads. So I'd say some of the hobbyist activity has shifted to other areas.

Still, I agree with the overall sentiment that the hobbyist factor (especially with respect to PJs) has waned and that pretty amazing HT performance can be had by nearly anybody and for less money than I would have thought possible 10 years ago. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing, though. We have certainly all benefited from these developments. Its just not as rewarding to be on the bleeding edge or to try to wring further performance from consumer-grade stuff, anymore.

I still wouldn't ask to go back to the days of my analog CRT front projector. Nostalgia is one thing, but re-setting convergence mid-movie is no fun. ;)

So, if AVS is less fun, that may be balanced somewhat by the (relative) effortlessness of home theater fun.

OK, I just read the new warning at the bottom. That's just frick'n insulting. Checking the box? REALLY?

Gee, so everything's been said? No possibility that any contribution could be worthwhile? I wonder why a guy wouldn't come back? Hmmm. Such a puzzlement. Why on earth should that be necessary?

Ok, well that obviously put me in a bad mood, which is kind of sad because I shot back here to research something specific and on a lark searched my own name just to see what I had last talked about and found this thread. I was both flattered and saddened by what Scotty wrote. I miss Jimmy too, and Wigggles (3 g's as I notice after about 5 years and knowing him well personally), and Brandon (under both names) and a whole bunch of others.

To those of you who have noticed the difference between then and now, I feel for you. We used to have some fun. We respected each other's observations. We could talk some fake trash for entertainment. And yes there was a time when you could ask a question and get a good tip or give an opinion based on your own perception and not get hacked like kung pao chicken. I hear you guys talking about a "committee." I know exactly what you are talking about. It's like a clique in junior high. Must keep up the appearance of superiority and infallibility, and can't have my authority challenged or someone might not think of me as "the" king. Mutual support of the "in" group.

Of course, back in the hobbyist days we needed those tips and a lot of them, as there were a LOT of mistakes to be made and huge improvements to be made with some practical tips.

And just like I found in sound systems about 40 years ago, these projectors have gotten so good, they are good enough. Yup, good enough. I just bought the Panny 4000 for the absolute hell of it. It got delivered about a week ago and I haven't even unboxed it. My 2000 is that good.

It's hard to make a mistake if you do just a modicum of research. You don't go thought that process of noticing more faults as you watch, causing you to need to upgrade. And ....here it comes (get those responses ready)....Evan Powell's site can give you the skinny in about 10 minutes. And you won't drown in hyper-technical disinformation (opinion masked in jargon - "I can talk over your head so you must accept my conclusion"). Hell, there's a dose of that right in this thread. How ironic. A point I heard made 20 times 10 years ago. It must be on a saved document in outline form so it can be copied and pasted with incredible speed and regularity. One of many trump cards. Bait for those who can be convinced they know and understand less than they should.

I can't believe you mentioned the old PLV-70. I have mine in a box in the attic. It's too big for a door stop. It would still have a great picture. Sure, not perfect, but I bet most TV watchers would still be wowed.

I'm just mad they don't make High Powers the 150" diagonal size.

So what am I doing these days? Motorcycles. Found a great forum where the people are casual, supportive, funny, helpful, and never truly insulting or superior. And if they do happen to really have superior knowledge (which most do), it doesn't get rubbed in your face. It is offered to actually help, and in a tactful and heartfelt manner. Again, I spend far too much time there, but that's because it is fun. Hell, we are all getting on Skype now and talking with each other. I have friends, and good ones, in Australia, England, South Africa, Sweden and all over the States and Canada. No one putting on airs.

So Scotty, sorry for the rant, but what are they going to do, ban me from a place I never visit?

I'm not even sure what my signature line says here anymore, but it was often:

"The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes."

It seemed to me, back when I became disinclined to return very often, that the smaller the differences got, the more vehement and superior the attitudes became. Which didn't make a lot of sense to me. The less there was to fight over, the more aggressive it became. Human nature I guess.

I wonder if I will come back to get kicked?

And now I feel bad. But not bad enough to delete it. :D

Now everyone go out and buy a Panny 4K, and you WILL enjoy it! Because it IS good enough! :D

Now everyone go out and buy a Panny 4K, and you WILL enjoy it! Because it IS good enough! :D

Good. Glad I made a good choice, as I haven't seen it yet. :D

OK, I just read the new warning at the bottom. That's just frick'n insulting. Checking the box? REALLY?



What are you talking about?

Good. Glad I made a good choice, as I haven't seen it yet. :D

I'm sure you'll love it. I'm patiently waiting for my RS35 to show up so I can enjoy some movie watching over the holidays :)

I'm just mad they don't make High Powers the 150" diagonal size.I haven't checked, but I've been told that despite some information about the maximum height for Da-Lite High Power screens being 72", they can actually make them 78" high. So, doesn't sound like 150" diagonal is out of the question.

--Darin

I haven't checked, but I've been told that despite some information about the maximum height for Da-Lite High Power screens being 72", they can actually make them 78" high. So, doesn't sound like 150" diagonal is out of the question.

--Darin

Darin is correct. I bought a 78" x 139" pull down high power no too long ago. I couldn't see a seam in it.

What are you talking about?

Apparently that warning and box check requirement goes away when you resurrect an old thread. It's gone.

And that is GREAT news about the big High Power! Hell, I'm calling tomorrow. Thanks a million.

On a side note, DON"T do this: Kill a mosquito on your High Power screen, then get a wet rag to wipe the bug guts off. Then rub so hard you make an imprint from the texture on the wall behind it. Top Dead Center. Pretty much in everyone's forehead. So again: DON"T do that.

See I had killed bugs and wiped them off before with no problem. Just hadn't rubbed it into a textured wall before. Dumbass.

Beat this - I was watching one of the spiderman movies a while back and a giant spider the size of a palm ran across the screen! (we have big spiders down under...)

Would have made a real mess if I swatted it :eek:

Having been on this forum for about 5 years I understand the sentiments expressed on the forum. My RS20 is so good I can't get too excited about the next projector or tweaks any more, or the hand wringing about buying LCOS or DLP. But I do have to do a decent calibration job over the Xmas holidays.

I'm just mad they don't make High Powers the 150" diagonal size.

The HP we have is nearly 12 feet wide, purchased from Jason 3-4 years ago. Love it!

Being into audio for 35 years and home theater for about 15 years and a member here for 9-10 years, the industry has changed. 10 years ago, 1080i projector cost about $20,000 and up not including scaling (we called them line doubler's) which costs another $10,000 unless you dove into the HTPC world (that was real bleeding edge). Today, you can purchase a really good projector for under $5,000 and an acceptable projector for $1,000. This has lowered the "ticket price" of admission into the theater hobby.

When I first began lurking on AVS it was a very nice and helpful place. As the entry price has come down, more and more people have joined here. Unfortunately, some of these people think "my way or the highway". They tend to belittle those who don't follow their opinions.

This trend began back in 2005. I slowed participation here back then. I would love to become active here again. But, even now, looking to replace my old Infocus projector, I see threads on projectors derailed into discussions on Walmart rugs and felt thumb tacked to ceilings.

This is why I come, I visit, I leave. I suspect this week is the first time I have come back here this year.

Now I only use this forum as a research asset. This is just too bad.

Yes, I guess to sum up, it's gone from a helpful neighborhood to running the gauntlet. A long miserable walk for a little drink of water. Probably an extreme example of the downside of "nerd convergence." (:D Can you tell? I made that up!) Although I do appreciate the help I got here in the last 24 hours. Thanks.

I've been on this forum for around 8 years (I believe). The day I joined there were acrimonious battles on the flat panel forums about brands, technology etc. (And it's still worse in the flat panel forums than here).

I haven't noticed any difference over the years. There has always been plenty of good mixed with a bit of bad.

I got on before the turn of the century (Ha!) and had to re-enlist because I lost my password, computer and internet service all at once in a total old style cluster****. I only hung out here, because this was the only type of display that I was looking at. Gee, I remember buying a pj that listed for like $12K for about $5k, and had to lie to the wife to pull that off. I think that was when it was only this one level and the 20K plus gear (where odd people lived). As a matter of fact I may have been one of the instigators (if not the THE instigator) of the separation of further price levels. I think that happened a couple of times. Well anyway, these were the most sane and nicest guys, not to mention most knowledgeable. Some of them were entertaining too, which I appreciated greatly.

Looking back, it was odd that the guys with the biggest and smallest budgets tended to be the most difficult to talk to. What do you suppose is the common link?

I'm sorry to see that Hank and Joe are both 'only visiting' as with all the year's experience you have I'm sure you would be a great help to others. I recognise both users names as I must have read things in the past from both of you.

I have noticed it can become a little 'heated' especially over on the CIH section, but there is still good information between the 'angry' posts, so I persevere. I've found out all sorts of useful information, how to calibrate, how to setup for a 2.35:1 screen and even about using black velvet and how it effects the image quality.

I've changed my projectors a few times since buying my first AE1000 only three years ago (the first got damaged so was really a 'free upgrade'). I still post on the sections relating to those models as I can sometimes help, especially with the zoom memory feature of the later models, so please don't think we are all unhelpful or blinkered in our views. I will admit I've challenged comments myself that seemed a bit too far off the mark, but I hope it's not something I make a habit of and generally I prefer to keep out of the heated discussions.

I sometimes wonder if we'd be better off simply ignoring any rude or strongly opinionated posts and letting them slide? I know the temptation is to want to 'correct' the information, but if it only results in a 'slanging match' then maybe better left unsaid. I know I will try to do this in future as it's just not worth the ill feeling.

Anyway, as you're both just passing through I'll wish you season's greetings and hope to see you again in future. :)

JHouse "The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes."

I love that signature! :) So easy to get caught up in the little things in this hobby. I can't believe all the things I obsessed and agonized over in my theater build that I rarely think of now. Just good to spend more time enjoying...

On a side note, DON"T do this: Kill a mosquito on your High Power screen, then get a wet rag to wipe the bug guts off. Then rub so hard you make an imprint from the texture on the wall behind it. Top Dead Center. Pretty much in everyone's forehead. So again: DON"T do that.

See I had killed bugs and wiped them off before with no problem. Just hadn't rubbed it into a textured wall before. Dumbass.

I didn't even go as far as the texture, but I still now have two cleaner spots that show up, as I haven't gotten around to cleaning the rest of th screen to match. F'ing moths. They come out every time I watch a movie.

and Brandon (under both names)

??? Do you mean me and another Brandon, just another Brandon with two names, or ?

I have only ever had one account.

I'm sorry to see that Hank and Joe are both 'only visiting' as with all the year's experience you have I'm sure you would be a great help to others. I recognise both users names as I must have read things in the past from both of you.

......



Thanks. Here is an example of what I am talking about I started a post below about projector suggestions. I selected and purchased a JVC RS35. I then asked for recommendations on calibration settings. Instead of try set this to here set that to there, I got call a IFS calibrator. I have had projectors calibrated and it was a mixed bag. As a general rule it wasn't perfect to my eye. I always have gotten results as good or better adjusting others settings. But that info was not provided. Just as well. Out of the box this baby isn't perfect but it is damn close. However, a positive response would have been appreciated.

I've been on this forum, in various guises, for 10 years and there seems, to me at least, to be a pretty predictable ebb and flow concerning the "tone" here. Ten years ago it was very congenial; however, by 2001 the CRT and Lcos guys were consistently at each others' throats on a day to day basis. What's really decreased the rancor around here is that the CRT guys, for the most part, are no longer in denial - denial that CRT isn't commercially dead and denial that digital actually isn't overall a much better option for just about everyone. The only people who will still argue about this are the few who have a vested interest in CRT (like me :D).


Well those all fled over to Curt's:rolleyes:.

And us 'bottomfeeders' have our own little asyllum at at f=16;).

But is there anything new and exciting here, they call it high-end, but all the new and cool stuff is over at the true high-end subforum, waiting to trickle down to this now almost mainstream subforum.

Although it is not technically in the 3K PJ forum, I humbly submit this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1186812) as direct evidence for my previous observation. :rolleyes:

-Suntan


Just a re-match from the Art, Peter, Wolfgang and a tagteam partner of Art bout in the 20K+ section.

Now see why a poor sod like me hangs out there in the rafters;-).

Most of the company reps have been chased off of the forum by really mean-spirited attacks.

Well, the Cineversum rep belied the forum members and kept kept up lying after the jig was up, to disappear after. Don't know if he truly left or ever returned, but. Just, par example... But did see things go pretty prickly.

??? Do you mean me and another Brandon, just another Brandon with two names, or ?

I have only ever had one account.

Did I spill some beans? Sorry.

I haven't checked, but I've been told that despite some information about the maximum height for Da-Lite High Power screens being 72", they can actually make them 78" high. So, doesn't sound like 150" diagonal is out of the question.

--DarinLast year, Da-Lite gave me a quote of $2263 for the largest possible 16x9 Hi-Power Cinema Contour. The tallest the fabric can be is 74 inches unseamed, which at 16x9 comes out to about 151" diagonal. The rep said they would not put in a seam in a fixed frame screen, so 74" high is the maximum for fixed frame. They were able to go a bit larger for the 159" diagonal manual pulldown by having the seam between the viewable area and the border.

When I fire up my projector and sit down, I watch the movie and not the picture produced by the projector. As long as the picture is pleasing to my eye after the initial calibration using inexpesive very user friendly software, I can enjoy the movie.

The picture projected may not be perfect for someone else's eyes, but is more than good enough for me and my family and friends.

I am however, quite particular that the sound is balanced properly when I sit in the sweet spot. Still I try not to listen to the speakers but listen to the sound.

I remember many, many , many years ago when I bought my first stereo amp and speakers, how for long hours I was listening to the speakers without hearing the music!


very well said. too many involved in this hobby forget:) the fact that the goal is to "go to the movies". i have also arrived at the point that i believe i am at the 92-95% quality level, and it i just not worth the pain and suffering to pick up the spread to 100%. the analogy to stereo is also on target. the experience of listening to the equipment versus hearing the music is overlooking the purpose.

Did I spill some beans? Sorry.

No beans. I seriously only ever have had one account. Who did you think was the other me?

I was sure you were Bytehoven too. Seems like somebody I trusted told me that, and/or through the pm's I got that impression. Maybe I'm just nuts.

Check out this thread if you like the type of controversy above: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1208634

Weird. But nope. I only have enough time to post as myself, and barely that.

BB

I owe my happiness with the High Power to all of JHouse's posts in the early days of his quest for that amazing punch and brightness with that old Sanyo, and then to Brandon's hospitality in letting me bring over a fairly new RS1 to his house (as I was a complete stranger) and try it out on his High Power. JHouse's name even came up that evening. Thanks so much guys! Now I am with the RS25 on that screen and :eek::)

And in fairness.....to Tryg of course thanks to his incredible screen reviews......

Congrats Ron, I remember when we were trying to get you your RS1 and goin around in circles. This hobby is insane at times! but fun :)

I was sure you were Bytehoven too. Seems like somebody I trusted told me that, and/or through the pm's I got that impression. Maybe I'm just nuts.

No Bytehoven is somebody totally different.
He's in the TV biz or something video related. He's a GREAT guy and was very involved in the forum back when.
He stopped back for a bit not too long ago and was looking for a new projector.
There was another Brandon but I don't think it ended in B.

"Beam me up, Scottyb, there is no sign of intelligent life here"

Need to replace my bulb on my Sony VPL-VW100, so I tuned in to this forum. It said that the last time I had checked in was June -- 6 months. I had gotten a burn out from the nit-picking. But that said, when you need good data, it is still the place to go. Just lots of chaff to sift through...

But then, even MNHTUG has fallen way off in activity. Any correlation??

The disappearance of members like Jhouse,QQQ and a few others has largely contributed to the "stuffiness" the last few years. Sorry to say I agree, not much fun anymore.

I much more miss Patrick (ValhallaPC). He always brought a smile to my face. First he quit here, now he doesn't even have his Youtube videos anymore. His, "Cables are better than a woman," is classic. Too bad that video is now made private :(

This is his only public video :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOxxYUiW3cY

Weird. But nope. I only have enough time to post as myself, and barely that.

BB

Do you still work for the mouse?

Yup. Doing stuff where I get to buy everything from $500 LED pocket projectors up to $100K D cinema units. Which makes up for spending 20+ hours a week in meetings.

What are those pocket projectors really for? I can't figure it out.

Oh, and while I'm at it, it would help a lot if some of you guys that talk about the really leading edge or very technical stuff could throw in a sentence now and then to boil it down to simpler terms for the rest of us. We really appreciate that kind of effort.

A parallel situation is when an expert witness tries to talk over the jury's head. They usually take it as an insult and hate them for it. The jury figures if you aren't hiding something, you should be able to explain it so it can be understood, at least in a general way. Like when your doctor tells you about your condition. So throw in a little teaching now and then. We, in the cheap seats, love it, and will love you for it.