First, I apologize for probably repeating questions. I have read a lot of the long threads about the H2160MW9, but would like to confirm a few things.

I want a DVR that will tune unencrypted digital channels (up to 1080i) on analog/digital cable, store programs on HDD, and reply in a manner resembling HD. (plus delete, edit, and dub to DVD)

First I looked at the H2160MW9 spec page, and saw this:
"Built-in ATSC/NTSC Tuner (SD Quality Output, C-QAM)". What does that mean?

Then I called customer support, and asked if this unit really has a QAM tuner and can tune digital channels on cable. Answer: flat no.

Then I found this forum.
From what I've read the QAM tuner in this unit should tune the same digital channels on cable as my Sony KDL-46V300 does. Right? That's dozens of channels in my case.

Does the tuner produce only 'standard definition' no matter what the input source?

Only SD is stored on disk?

Most think the up-converted output using HDMI is pretty decent. Right?

Does this model have the problem of not finalizing DVD?

Seems like the majority opinion is that this unit works pretty well, and is good value at ~$250. (and is one of the very few HDD recorders available)
Right?

Thanks.

Then I found this forum.
From what I've read the QAM tuner in this unit should tune the same digital channels on cable as my Sony KDL-46V300 does. Right? That's dozens of channels in my case.
Should pick up the same Clear-QAM ("C-QAM") channels.

Does the tuner produce only 'standard definition' no matter what the input source?
SDTV no matter what the source. It does pass thru HDTV to your TV thru the amplified coax passthru circuit.

Only SD is stored on disk?
All SDTV, 480i, per DVD spec.

Most think the up-converted output using HDMI is pretty decent. Right?
Correct. Some say outstanding. My composite analog cable feed is just OK, but DVDs are outstanding.

Does this model have the problem of not finalizing DVD?
It does if you don't know the SECRET just discovered, described here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12437134&postcount=99)

Seems like the majority opinion is that this unit works pretty well, and is good value at ~$250. (and is one of the very few HDD recorders available)
Right?
An even better value here (J&R) (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=X3Th4gZi/iQ&subid=&offerid=101744.1&type=10&tmpid=25&u1=5336055023&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.jr.com%252Fmagnavox%252Fpe%2 52FMAG_H2160MW9_hy_RB%252F%253FJRSource%253Dlinkshare%2526am p%253BSiteID%253DX3Th4gZi%25252FiQ-yS8mk%25252FEqDEj6uC9cNYwgpg) for a refurb'd unit at $159.99 which lots of people have bought recently and found to be quite nice, some barely used. J&R has less than a dozen of these left.

It's the only HDD DVDR available in N.A. with digital tuners.

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the response. (Shows that I can still read OK)
My only concern with the refurb unit is that it would be harder to return, if there was a problem, than taking it back to WalMart

True. I think the warranty thru J&R is 90 days, but not positive.

J&R has a 30-day return policy, one of the best companies in the business, by the way.

Yes and if the product is defective JR will pay for you to ship it back to then as well as shipping you a replacement unit.
With Walmarts site to store even if you just didn't like it you'd be out nothing, with JR I'm pretty sure you'd be out the shipping back to them in that case.

Is the following correct about playback resolution and aspect?
HDMI playback resolution only needs to be set once (e.g., to 1080p and all recordings will be upconverted to 1080p).
Aspect needs to be set manually each time depending on the aspect of the original recording. (4:3 or 16:9 aspect is not discernible from a saved recording)

Thanks.

There's an HDMI button on the remote for selecting what format you want to send to the TV. Once set, it doesn't need to be changed... at least I never do.

One person reported a bad pic with one setting, but when he went to 1080p (I think) things looked great. I use 480p and let my HDTV upconvert/scale to its native fixed-pixel format of 1080p (or 720p on another HDTV). Works best in my analog cable system.

Aspect can be set for each recording manually, but I leave mine set for 16:9 Wide. When I used to have a mix of old 4:3 and 16:9 TVs, or recording analog 4:3 programs, my 16:9 Wide setting works great for WS programs, and I accept the slightly stretched 4:3 programs cuz I'm too lazy to change my TV's setting from Wide to Normal (for 4:3 stuff).

On 4:3 stuff, this DVDR can only record it as 4:3 (doesn't artificially stretch it even if set for 16:9 Wide), so it's only the TV that needs to be set to display it as 4:3 if you have to see it in its "Normal" aspect, or leave the TV on a Wide sertting like I do and accept the slight stretch.

If interested in more detail on this, check out this help file. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12371974&postcount=62)

Well, it was worth a try --
I bought one.
I tried it for two weeks.
I'm taking it back.
The only functional thing I like about this unit is that it has a QAM tuner. But even that is quite poor compared to my Sony tv.
A few things I don't like:
1. One should not have to manually specify analog or digital tuner. The unit clearly has a record of what analog and digital channels have been tuned, and should pick a tuner based on channel number - either in changing channels or setting timer programs.
2. The mechanism for setting timer programs for every week day, of every Wed, etc has the distinct look of an afterthought kludge. (and permits setting such program only on the first day of the program).
3. The unit should not loose timer programs if power is removed. Static RAM has been around for, oh, 30+ years?
4. The DVD player is incredibly slow to load a disk, makes a loud whistle while loading or positioning, and insists on playing all the lead in material on commercial disks, instead of going directly to the disk menu (as my other players will do on request).

I'll wait for something much better.

2. The mechanism for setting timer programs for every week day, of every Wed, etc has the distinct look of an afterthought kludge. (and permits setting such program only on the first day of the program).
For others having or considering the 2160, here's the procedure for setting a timer program, which allows every Wed., M-F, and other options as shown:

To set up a timer program, press the TIMER button on the remote and press OK on the highlighted "New Program." This brings up the timer rec menu shown below, with a chart showing how to set recurring events with the down arrow in the first date box.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r290/wabjxo/3575TimerMenu.jpg

Enter approp. info. in the 6 simple boxes: Date, Start, End, CH, REC To, and Mode. Arrow right/left to move between boxes. Arrow up/dn to change info in any box... can also enter clock times and channel directly with the number buttons (except on 3575/3576, arrow only for subchannels in DTV/digital channel box).

You don't have to arrow thru every box... you can press OK at any time to exit and save this menu with all entries intact.

Date box has current date. To get a one-time, future program in the Date box, arrow up to go to a specific date. To get a repeating program (daily/weekly) in the box, arrow down to select one of the options.

Start box has current time. Set hour with arrow up/dn or enter numbers with keypad. Arrow right and set minutes same way. Arrow right and set AM/PM with arrow up/dn.

End box has dashes (- - :- -). Set same way as Start time.

CH box has 2 sections:
In 1st section, select Source by arrowing up/down to change between --- (analog tuner), DTV (digital tuner), or E1/L1 or E2/L2 external inputs.
Arrow right to 2nd section. If you selected an external input, the E1/L1 or E2/L2 will auto-move to the center all by itself. If you selected a tuner source (--- or DTV), you can change the channel number with the arrow up/down keys or direct entry, except arrow only with 3575/3576 in DTV (digital) subchannel box.

Note: Channels entered in a timer menu don't have to be in CH+/- memory.

REC TO box ALWAYS has HDD as default, so you can leave it (unless you really do want to record directly to a DVD... WHY!?)

Mode box has whatever you last set as default via the REC MODE button on the remote while viewing TV, so you can leave it or change it with the arrow keys for that timer program. Changing the rec. mode here is just for that timer program and doesn't affect your default setting.

The "2-Minute-Warning" - 2-minutes before the start of a timer rec program with this DVDR off, it will go thru the Loading procedure, spin up the HDD, and change to the channel set in the timer program... all while still being visibly "off." This DVDR will only turn "on" 2-sec before timer start time, when "Loading" will show briefly while it checks for a recordable DVD, then recording will start immediately after. This is the reason you can't change channels while watching something from this DVDR from 2-minutes before a timer rec program start time.

I'll take a stab at #3 and 4


3. The unit should not loose timer programs if power is removed. Static RAM has been around for, oh, 30+ years?
While that may be true I don't think you're going to find any current DVDR with that feature. Panasonic DVDRs had that feature until the '06 model year and beyond. Why did they drop it? to keep prices as cheap as possible for the average American consumer who thinks anything over $99 is too much.
Sure the Maggy could have that feature, but probably not for $299 or even $239 it retails for. I think the last Panny to have this feature was probably the ES-10 which was HDD less and probably retailed for over $300.

4. The DVD player is incredibly slow to load a disk, makes a loud whistle while loading or positioning, and insists on playing all the lead in material on commercial disks, instead of going directly to the disk menu (as my other players will do on request).

I'll wait for something much better.

I agree the 2160 was a fair amount slower to load a disc than my Panasonic DVDRs(or Sony DVD players) but have you tried a BR player:eek:the future of disc storage, if you think the Maggy is bad you ain't seen nothing:(
Oh and I'd like to know what kind of hacked player you've used that allows one to skip commercial disc lead in material, I know of no unhacked recorder or even player that allows that. BTW it's quite easy to strip that restriction on your PC in which case any player/recorder will allow you to bypass it;)
No doubt the Maggy isn't for everyone but other current DVDR might you suggest that gives more bang for the buck? Glad you gave it a try, too bad it didn't work out for you:)

the last Panny to have this feature was probably the ES-10 which was HDD less and probably retailed for over $300.


Nah, I got it for around $125 new from a store that was willing to match the amazon sale price. The dealer didn't believe it til he saw it with his own eyes... he said it was $225 and others were selling it in the $189 range, but to his credit, once he confirmed it online he grudgingly gave me the match. Those were the days..... :rolleyes:

Well, it was worth a try --
I bought one.
I tried it for two weeks.
I'm taking it back.
The only functional thing I like about this unit is that it has a QAM tuner. But even that is quite poor compared to my Sony tv.
A few things I don't like:
1. One should not have to manually specify analog or digital tuner. The unit clearly has a record of what analog and digital channels have been tuned, and should pick a tuner based on channel number - either in changing channels or setting timer programs.
2. The mechanism for setting timer programs for every week day, of every Wed, etc has the distinct look of an afterthought kludge. (and permits setting such program only on the first day of the program).
3. The unit should not loose timer programs if power is removed. Static RAM has been around for, oh, 30+ years?
4. The DVD player is incredibly slow to load a disk, makes a loud whistle while loading or positioning, and insists on playing all the lead in material on commercial disks, instead of going directly to the disk menu (as my other players will do on request).

I'll wait for something much better.

I fear you'll be waiting a long time, since this type of recorder probably wont be around for long ... perhaps one day the boys in Hollywood will reconsider and we'll actually be able to watch whatever we want, when we want to. And pigs will fly! ;)

The manual selection of digital and analog kind of threw me at first, too - but since analog is going the way of the dodo, it's a short term problem. There wont be any analogues to worry about, and if you're not trying to tune them you can just leave it selected to the digital side. Back when this design was new, you could have a similarly numbered channel for either analog or digital, so it's really giving you more options. Similarly, the timer flexibility was obscured, but built in. Losing its memory is something I'd agree with you on -- best to use a UPS so as to not have to re-tune if it gets unplugged (especially if you've done the 'all or nothing' channel scan, it can be annoying! And as for DVD drawer whistling ???? Dont have that - so maybe you got a defective model ? That's a shame, since it really is a handy. machine.

Have you looked into Tivo HD?

Well, it was worth a try --
I bought one.
I tried it for two weeks.
I'm taking it back . . .

I'll wait for something much better.

My WalMart customer review mentions that the 2160 isn't for everyone.

That's one more 2160 that may appear at J&R--then be snapped up by another eager buyer!