We need a place to discuss this new projector - so, here it is. Please keep it on topic and mindful of others thoughts and opinions...

I havent seen all the latest PJs but would like to understand how a roughly 12,000 CR projector can have a similar perceived CR than a 40,000 one. Is that because .002 ft-L feels the same as .001 ft-L or what am I missing here?

I would like to say I have already sold my VW60 (loved it, just wished it had a better CR) and after TJN's review I was seriously considering switching from Sony to JVC (25 or 35)because of measured CR. Joe's review made me reconsider it (thanks for the review Joe). I dont want to be without a PJ for much longer and would like to decide soon so subjective and measured reviews are very welcome at this point, at least for me.

I had a VW60 for a couple of years I recently replaced with a JVC RS15. The RS15 has much better contrast and puts out more lumens (LOW lamp mode on the JVC puts out more lumens than HIGH lamp did on the VW60, with same age lamp). That combination makes for a MUCH more compelling picture.

Colors are a bit more saturated than they were with the VW60, but sharpness is better on the RS15 and overall it was a nice upgrade. I'm very happy with the performance of the JVC vs my old Sony.

Bear in mind with the AUTO IRIS OFF the sony would get about 2700:1 CR whereas the JVC gets about 14,500:1 (real world measurements). So it's about a 5x improvement. The much lower black levels and higher lumens output is the main advantage the JVC has over the VW60. And it is very noticeable.

I'm not sure something like 25000:1 vs 15000:1 is all that noticeable, by that time you're getting to a really low black level. You would have to have the machines side by side projecting the same image to notice at all I would think, under normal conditions you would be hard pressed to see it.

Hopefully Jason will have a review up sometime soon. So far, all I have seen are HT's review and Joes both of which were very positive.

Hi,

Here are a excellent reviews about the last Sony VPL-VW85 :

http://hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/...xrd_projector/#

Enjoy!

Eric

Bear in mind with the AUTO IRIS OFF the sony would get about 2700:1 CR whereas the JVC gets about 14,500:1 (real world measurements). So it's about a 5x improvement. The much lower black levels and higher lumens output is the main advantage the JVC has over the VW60. And it is very noticeable.



That is a stupid comparison. The Sony is meant to be used with the IRIS ON. That's like saying a corvette with out tires is slower than a mustang. No kidding, but who cares? What's important is how it compares in it's best mode. If you don't like an iris, then you don't buy the Sony; just like if you can't take rainbows you don't buy a DLP.

Hopefully Jason will have a review up sometime soon. So far, all I have seen are HT's review and Joes both of which were very positive.

Soon as I get it. :)

The first projector I had with an Auto Iris was the Sony VW60. After living with it for a while I didn't care for it, so I kept it off.

I prefer a projector with a decent On/Off contrast ratio natively, without resorting to an Auto Iris. But viewing movies for a short time was a different experience from watching a variety of material every day for two years. At the time I purchased the Sony I thought the AUTO IRIS feature would be fine, over the long haul it wasn't fine.

I don't feel my comparison is stupid, more like informed after real world, long term experience. Clearly you feel otherwise.


That is a stupid comparison. The Sony is meant to be used with the IRIS ON. That's like saying a corvette with out tires is slower than a mustang. No kidding, but who cares? What's important is how it compares in it's best mode. If you don't like an iris, then you don't buy the Sony; just like if you can't take rainbows you don't buy a DLP.

...I don't feel my comparison is stupid, more like informed after real world, long term experience...The comparison in this thread would be very usefull if it was about the VW85 :)

Hi,

Here are a excellent reviews about the last Sony VPL-VW85 :

http://hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/...xrd_projector/#

Enjoy!

Eric

From Tom Norton’s Sony VW85 review:

“I can’t recall another projector I’ve reviewed that produced better resolution than the VPL-VW85. And it was this superior resolution I first noticed when I fired it up. White lettering on titles was clear and crisp, without the trace of colored edges that often turns up on other projectors—a sign of panel misalignment, optical issues (chromatic aberration), or both. In fact, the Sony’s lens quality here appeared to be among the best.”

Thanks for the link. Someone had asked the reviewer of the owner’s thread, which got deleted yesterday, what he meant by better resolution but didn’t get a solid answer form him. The one above points out to clarity due to lens quality, at least. I wonder if the VW85 has the same lens used in the VW200. Hopefully, Jason can give us an insight on this.

RE: Lens...not sure if it is the same as the VW200 but I will find out. He comments on convergence being spot on, which is great, but as someone who sees more of each model than about anyone, they all vary. He also doesn't mention if he had to engage the convergence adjustment or not, so it is unclear if that is how it was natively.

RE: Lens...not sure if it is the same as the VW200 but I will find out. He comments on convergence being spot on, which is great, but as someone who sees more of each model than about anyone, they all vary. He also doesn't mention if he had to engage the convergence adjustment or not, so it is unclear if that is how it was natively.

Thanks, Jason.

TJN just reviewed the $13K Sammy A900 that some members have raved about
http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/samsung_sp-a900b_dlp_projector/

Interesting comparison to the VW85

The Samsung was easier to calibrate, but the post-calibration color on either was hard to criticize. The Samsung had superior resolution of detail, but it took a lot of looking at the sharpest program material to spot the differences. On the other hand, the Sony clearly had a deeper, darker black level and nearly as good shadow detail. But the Samsung popped a little more in the mid-brightness region

Thanks, Jason.

No problemo. :)

TJN just reviewed the $13K Sammy A900 that some members have raved about
http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/samsung_sp-a900b_dlp_projector/

Interesting comparison to the VW85I imagine that one is a certain amount blondes vs brunettes or chocolate vs vanilla. That is, depends a lot on what a person values. I might lean toward the VW85 myself between those mostly because of absolute black levels, although I haven't seen them in a head-to-head (just at different times in different rooms).

I think we've gotten to the point that the "perfect color" thing from Samsung just isn't that big a deal anymore. If everybody can get to 95%+ of perfect then the parameter starts to matter a lot less. And with an external box to do full CMS on any projector without one it also becomes an issue where other projectors can be calibrated to very close to perfect for colors even if it takes some money to buy a box to do it. But there is no box to give the Samsung great on/off CR. If there was I would probably consider that combination.

I should say that I'm not sure how well the CMS type stuff works with the VW85, but was pointing out that even if it has problems there are and will be solutions to do it externally. Wide 1 with the VW85 looked pretty good to my eyes, but I wouldn't claim it was accurate just from looking at it.

--Darin

From hometheatermag review:

In the High lamp setting, on the same screen, in the Auto 1 iris setting, the VPL-VW85 measured 29.65 foot-lamberts peak white and 0.0022 ft-L video black, for a full-on/full-off contrast ratio of 13,467:1.
...
With the auto iris off, in the Low lamp mode and Gamma 3, the VPL-VW85 produced a peak contrast ratio of 4,511:1 (16.24 ft-L peak white, 0.0036 ft-L video black).
It is odd, considering claimed 120000 on/off CR, plus talks about near 40000 native CR at CEDIA. I'm curious, can one return such projector for repair because it is that far from claimed specs?

...I might lean toward the VW85 myself between those mostly because of absolute black levels, although I haven't seen them in a head-to-head (just at different times in different rooms)...I guess based on Joe Kane's comments about how poor the Sonys perform I would expect a clear resolution/detail advantage to the A900. I looked at the DVE pixel resolution pattern (6 boxes 3 x 3 with a vertical offset) on my RS2 and it looked like mush. The 1x1 pixel checkerboard had a pink tinge!

TJN's comments don't sound like night and day on resolution/detail.

From hometheatermag review:

It is odd, considering claimed 120000 on/off CR, plus talks about near 40000 native CR at CEDIA. I'm curious, can one return such projector for repair because it is that far from claimed specs?

Yeah it is odd, the on/off numbers quoted in that review that is. The vw85 is just a tweaked vw80 and the only physical changes would appear to be improvements to the light path to improve contrast ratio so it's hardly likely to turn in lower numbers than a vw80.

From hometheatermag review:

It is odd, considering claimed 120000 on/off CR, plus talks about near 40000 native CR at CEDIA. I'm curious, can one return such projector for repair because it is that far from claimed specs?

I questioned this as well in an earlier thread. Either HT Mag measures are completely off base, or else Sony's specs are seriousely flawed. One can always put the blame on a particular unit being "defective", of course, but thus far with numbers from HT Mag I would not touch it.

aren't TJN's CR measurements usually on the low side? what did he measure on the JVC's?

I questioned this as well in an earlier thread. Either HT Mag measures are completely off base, or else Sony's specs are seriousely flawed. One can always put the blame on a particular unit being "defective", of course, but thus far with numbers from HT Mag I would not touch it.I'm not talking just about the defective units, but about situation if hypothetically, vw85s are measured in general that way. Shouldn't it warrant returning them for service and making Sony actually put the devices into the claimed specs or to be a ground for a class action lawsuit?

Yeah it is odd, the on/off numbers quoted in that review that is. The vw85 is just a tweaked vw80 and the only physical changes would appear to be improvements to the light path to improve contrast ratio so it's hardly likely to turn in lower numbers than a vw80.TJN got iris off CR of ~9K:1 for the VW70 and ~4.5k:1 on the VW85. One differences in the settings is that he measured the VW70 at contrast 95 and the VW85 at contrast 70. The default contrast is 90. He did not mention why he set the contrast that low. I assume throw is the same.

IIRC darinP posted that he measured that same TJN unit at a similar ~10k:1 that he got on his VW80. Sound and Vision got ~11k:1 (iris off) on their VW70 test: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/3062/sony-vpl-vw70-sxrd-front-projector-test-bench-page3.html

It looks like worse case the VW85 performs like a VW70/80 as far as on/off CR so 10K to 12:1 iris off. I still hope they perform more like the Norwegian test at 18K to 20k:1 iris off.

Lets see what Jason measures :)

It looks like worse case the VW85 performs like a VW70/80 as far as on/off CR so 10K to 12:1 iris off. I still hope they perform more like the Norwegian test at 18K to 20k:1 iris off.

I must have got a good VW80 then because brand new OOTB, Standard picture mode, at max throw (no zoom) we measured a tad over 17k:1 native and 70k+:1 dynamic.

Based on the claimed 120k:1 dynamic for the VW85 and the usual 5:1 DI gearing (although I suspect they're ramped it up to more like 6:1) I think we're looking at 20-24k:1 native.

That might just be wishful thinking though but it will also be interesting to see if the improvements in the light path have upped the ANSI from the 450:1 the VW80 achieves.

I must have got a good VW80 then because brand new OOTB, Standard picture mode, at max throw (no zoom) we measured a tad over 17k:1 native and 70k+:1 dynamic...17K:1 iris off/open?? That is exceptional!! The two VW70s my company got came in at ~12k:1 open and ~15K:1 closed/min @ d65 dE < 3. Those units had a lot of tweaking by our Chief Engineer. IIRC ANSI CR was ~440:1.

From hometheatermag review:

It is odd, considering claimed 120000 on/off CR, plus talks about near 40000 native CR at CEDIA. I'm curious, can one return such projector for repair because it is that far from claimed specs?

Though I don't full believe the rated specs, the Auto 1 implementation of the iris is the most aggressive. I question if there wasn't an error in measurement. I certainly hope that is the case, or Sony really messed up the posted spec rating. These numbers are actually similar to what a VW60 got if I recall correctly.

Is it possible that the final spec came from Sony's marketing department?

Undoubtedly. But, the VW60 was rated substantially lower by the same marketing department and yet tested out similarly...thus there is a great variable which isn't adding up. Of course I believe the review piece was preproduction so it could be some of the iris settings were not properly set...all speculation.

Does anyone know if Greg Rogers still reviews projectors? I can't think of the last time he reviewed one and came on AVS for a Q & A. Was it the planar 8150?

Greg, if you are out there, are you planning a review of the sony vw85 and the rs35 anytime in the near future?

I think Greg is around...I remember seeing him post not more than a few months ago. I cannot remember what the review was (maybe an RS20?).

Rec'd word my VW85 should be here next Wednesday. Cannot wait! Now I've got to get that screen ordered!:D

Whoo hoo!

Hmmmmmmmmm. Sounds like someone either:
a) won the lottery
b) received his VW85
c) both of the above

Here's hoping for c.

Dick Fogg

Personally I won $2...I was stoked as it only cost me $2 for the ticket. First time I think I didn't lose on lotto. :)