See here (http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/) and watch the video. Report back on what you see. :)

Enter the contest here (http://hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2009/10/25/wheres-the-5d/).

Can you spot the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit video?

Are film's days numbered?

See here (http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/) and watch the video. Report back on what you see. :)

I'll have to wait til I get home to try, but takes me about a split second to tell if I'm watching film vs video usually.

Can you spot the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit video?

Probably depends on the content, but lack of banding would definitely be welcome.

Are film's days numbered?

I wouldn't say so, film has a magic to it, due to the lower frame rate that seems to better let me "let go" and enjoy than video does. Video tends to remind me I'm looking at/through a small box (since it looks so "real") where film I can just forget all about it and enjoy the movie.

Are film's days numbered?

Film is both a capture medium and a display medium, so that's 2 very different applications, requiring 2 separate answers. Obviously digital units are used to display material captured on film, and 35mm machines routinely display material of digital origin.

The answer, on both counts, is absolutely not,at least for now.

I think the real question was "Are 24fps motion pictures' days numbered", not film vs digital.

See here (http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/) and watch the video. Report back on what you see. :)

Enter the contest here (http://hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2009/10/25/wheres-the-5d/).

Can you spot the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit video?

Are film's days numbered?


The link doesn't work for me.

Assuming the same origination and correct handling 8bit and 10bit video will look exactly the same unless you've spent the best part of a million on your display.

That issue itself has nothing to do with the differences between film and video.

Ask me if I can tell the difference between film and video ... night and day.

I think the real question was "Are 24fps motion pictures' days numbered", not film vs digital.

I bet that film will go away before 24fps does.

I think the point on the website linked to above is that digital video can be made to look a lot like film and it has certain practical advantages over shooting with film.

I think that film will go first in theaters. New digital equipment is expensive but by me most screens are already digital. Give it 5 years.

Film makers are clinging to film for more emotional reasons so it will probably take longer for it to go away, if it ever truly goes away.

Film is both a capture medium and a display medium, so that's 2 very different applications, requiring 2 separate answers. Obviously digital units are used to display material captured on film, and 35mm machines routinely display material of digital origin.

The answer, on both counts, is absolutely not.

I've yet to see a capture system that is consistently as good as film.

I think RED looks frankly terrible. super16 looks better in my opinion.

I've actually seen some stuff shot of sony HDcam that looked essentially like film after it was transfered to neg.

The link doesn't work for me.

I think we crashed the site. Check out this (http://gizmodo.com/5391504/terminator-salvations-director-of-photography-asks-can-you-tell-the-difference-between-film-and-digital)writeup on Gizmodo.

I think RED looks frankly terrible. super16 looks better in my opinion.

Since Mr. D likes to stir the Red pot let's stir some more:
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=498823&postcount=1

I don't know if this is in the spirit of the original question - but - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button was shot on DV and the BD transfer was stunning. Very clear and distinct images with no panning or motion issues.

See here (http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/) and watch the video. Report back on what you see. :)
Enter the contest here (http://hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2009/10/25/wheres-the-5d/).
Can you spot the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit video?
Are film's days numbered?
Clip is 8 bit...
Yes, film's days are numbered. With what number nobody knows. :)
Concerning identifying the Canon shots in the clip it's not so difficult (at least for some shots) if you know the Canons dirty little secret(s). :)
The first shots show the problem clearly. Or not?
Update: Hurlbut said on his blog that the Canon stuff was shot at 30 fps and converted to 23.976 so that complicates the situation. And he likes the 'logarithms' that did the conversion. :-)

Since Mr. D likes to stir the Red pot let's stir some more:
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=498823&postcount=1

Fincher doing Dogme I guess.

Can you spot the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit video?

There's a huge problem with this comparison. Anyone here have a 10-bit PC/display (probably would be either "30bpp" or "40bpp" in Windows)?

Fincher doing Dogme I guess.
Not really. He's not using the Red we have seen so far. But I really need to ask why you have such issues with Red footage. There is now quite some material available, on Blu Ray too. I have seen 4K projection of Red as well. The comparison to 16mm really makes no sense to me if we talk about well shot footage. What exactly bothers you so much? Have you ever graded Red directly from the raw files? And with the new color science? Have you done any Red projects? Have you seen Knowing or Gamer or District 9? How do they look like 16mm? How do the Red Demo Reels look like 16mm? I have never seen such 16mm for sure.

Yes I've seen lots of Red footage and I don't like any of it. The better shot stuff was at least sharp. The color rendition is awful in my opinion. It looks like two strip. ( the Knowing and Che definitely have this look , District 9 obviously decided to go the safer route and desaturate the footage by about 70%)

I've not been able to sit through all of Che' ( actually I didn't manage to sit through all of The Knowing although mainly because the film itself was so bad).

I've worked with some RED footage recently and again it has that two strip look , hardly any saturated blues everything is red and cyan. Some nasty patterned noise in the blacks too. At least it was sharp though.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/aadams/story/red_color_comparison/

I agree with a lot of the comments here.

Yes I've seen lots of Red footage and I don't like any of it. The better shot stuff was at least sharp. The color rendition is awful in my opinion. .
So you have a color issue. Since the color processing changed some months ago you might have used/seen the old processing? Nothing on Blu Ray or in cinemas yet with the new processing. There were issues with color balance and the blue channel. I don't see how this compares to 16mm, though. 16mm has same emulsion and color as 35mm, just with more grain and less sharp. If you meant sharpness it's operator issues. Red has ~3K real luminance resolution and well shot footage looks visibly sharper than 2K material (and much sharper than 16mm). Nikon and Canon still cameras have no color issues. The technology is quite capable of good color. So color issues are temporary. The software will catch up and the new sensors change the game anyway. I really don't think that Fincher praises the new Red/sensor because he's after a low quality video look, but because it produces a very solid picture in higher resolution than the competition.

So you have a color issue. Since the color processing changed some months ago you might have used/seen the old processing? Nothing on Blu Ray or in cinemas yet with the new processing. There were issues with color balance and the blue channel..

I was dealing with RED footage 3 weeks ago. I have more issues with the footage than just color.



I don't see how this compares to 16mm, though. 16mm has same emulsion and color as 35mm, just with more grain and less sharp. If you meant sharpness it's operator issues. Red has ~3K real luminance resolution and well shot footage looks visibly sharper than 2K material (and much sharper than 16mm). Nikon and Canon still cameras have no color issues. The technology is quite capable of good color. So color issues are temporary. The software will catch up and the new sensors change the game anyway. I really don't think that Fincher praises the new Red/sensor because he's after a low quality video look, but because it produces a very solid picture in higher resolution than the competition.

The numbers do not tell the whole story. I have yet to see any RED footage which I regarded as superior to 35mm. The overall result is far less visually pleasing whatever the resolution says.

Given the choice of RED or super16 I would still take super16 and scan it at 4k (2048x1152). I've worked with footage generated this way and the best looked indistinguishable from a 35mm 2k scan.

I was dealing with RED footage 3 weeks ago. I have more issues with the footage than just color.

What other issues do you have? And how do you deal with Red material? Work from 10 bit DPX given to you? From native RAW files?

The numbers do not tell the whole story. I have yet to see any RED footage which I regarded as superior to 35mm. The overall result is far less visually pleasing whatever the resolution says.

Red themselves don't claim they are better than 35mm. But different. An alternative.

Given the choice of RED or super16 I would still take super16 and scan it at 4k (2048x1152). I've worked with footage generated this way and the best looked indistinguishable from a 35mm 2k scan.
(You mean 4k scanned and downsampled to 2K?)
The color and latitude advantage of film works on 16mm too, of course. So one can prefer it for specific needs. As one can prefer the Red for other needs/looks. 16mm can only approach Red clarity and sharpness with high end grain processing eliminating the grain and some sharpening. I have seen 16mm look comparable to 35mm, but it was heavily processed (well processed I must say). Still it could not compete with the Red footage on the same 4K projector in the clarity and sharpness department.

Without question, the BMW spot footage originated digitally. There are tons of tell tale signs. Some are obvious (how it sees light in available light night exteriors), and some more subtle ("says" immediate or live verses "once upon a time"...sorry, don't know how else to put it). As we have seen, though, with agressive FI in displays, something shot on film could be made to not look like it with processing. Not sure why someone would do that, though.

I agree that digital offers the creative team choices. It kind of depends on whether "looking like film" is an objective or not. The creative subject matter should drive this. If it is a narrative piece without the need for a documentary/immediate look, then it should originate on film or if shot digital it needs to conceal the tell tale signs of digital. I think the same can be said for many commercials if they need to communicate status or luxury.

That said, our perception of these things is changing because of the HD camcorder revolution. The coming generation will find images with the quality of the BMW spot more acceptable/desirable as this continues.

I don't know this for sure yet, but the following piece is probably shot with the 5D. I think it is a brilliant use of a digital format. The dynamic latitude of whatever shot it is quite amazing (look at the shadow detail even in the extreme contrast of sun and snow). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9aIv7HeLPU

Really nice clip Cam Man. I shared it with all my skiing / boarding friends to get their winter juices flowing. One of them is from CA, lives in OR now and has quit numerous jobs over the years to go live in Telluride for the winter. :D

Really nice clip Cam Man. I shared it with all my skiing / boarding friends to get their winter juices flowing. One of them is from CA, lives in OR now and has quit numerous jobs over the years to go live in Telluride for the winter. :D
That would be my wish, but for the summer. I'm not a skier, and have never been to Telluride other than in summer and fall. I will be there this Thanksgiving with daughter and friends. Hoping to see and experience it in its winter glory. I'm going to try to look up the local fellow who shot this while I'm there, and talk about it over a cold brew.

Glad you enjoyed it. :)