I've seen 2 articles this week that OLED will be a key feature at CES 2010.
How Price affordable we see it is another story.
Big investments being made by Samsung and LG which means that certainly PANNY will follow if they haven't already started.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/blogs/team+hcc/oled+back+fashion+samsung+and+lg+prepare+fight+over+superthi n+panel+market+11+11+09

I've seen 2 articles this week that OLED will be a key feature at CES 2010.
How Price affordable we see it is another story.
Big investments being made by Samsung and LG which means that certainly PANNY will follow if they haven't already started.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/blogs/team+hcc/oled+back+fashion+samsung+and+lg+prepare+fight+over+superthi n+panel+market+11+11+09

11" OLED TV cost 2000$ . I would wait for 3 years.

OLED alive and well in 2016: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10387108-1.html

Sony making their flagship TV OLED in 2010:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/11/13/sonys-2010-2011-oled-tv-and-flagship-xbr-series-leaked/

Sony making their flagship TV OLED in 2010:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/11/13/sonys-2010-2011-oled-tv-and-flagship-xbr-series-leaked/

How much they are going to cost? 350,000$ or something :rolleyes:

Do I look like someone who would know that? :D (I have no idea, but hopefully not as bad as we think. :))

can someone tell me why it is "organic" as I am a farmer and organic obviously means something completely different in my field than what it does here

can someone tell me why it is "organic" as I am a farmer and organic obviously means something completely different in my field than what it does here

They don't use pesticides, fungicides on it while manufacturing :)

Sony making their flagship TV OLED in 2010:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/11/13/sonys-2010-2011-oled-tv-and-flagship-xbr-series-leaked/

So looks like SONY, LG, SAMSUNG, will all be on board.


If they are opening plants, the're aware that high price points will not generate sales. Then again, hoping to get an OLED for the price of a plasma or lcd is not realistic either.

I don't call $2000 for 11" alive and well. Let's get real.:cool:

They don't use pesticides, fungicides on it while manufacturing :)

And it tastes better. A truly 100% recyclable tv. When it time for an upgrade, you just eat it.

can someone tell me why it is "organic" as I am a farmer and organic obviously means something completely different in my field than what it does here

The light emitting substrates are organic compounds (carbon and usually hydrogen based) instead of LED (semiconductor) or cathode (excited gas) technology we use today. If you haven't taken organic chemistry, don't bother worrying about the details more than that. :D

Yah, but what about SED :)

At $2000 for an 11 inch screen, you'd better hope the wealthy decide to purchase these. Otherwise I see no way these will penetrate the plasma market unless they have a PQ that can make someone say "I'd rather pay $25000 for that 23" oled for the kitchen instead of getting those 4 65" V10's for all the rooms in my house."

I just told my kids they will be transfering to public school along with getting involved in the goverment sponsered lunch program once the 32 inch oled comes out. I dont think there very happy.

I just told my kids they will be transfering to public school along with getting involved in the goverment sponsered lunch program once the 32 inch oled comes out. I dont think there very happy.

At least you didn't tell them about the part where they have to go to community college.

At least you didn't tell them about the part where they have to go to community college.Oh sorry didnt have the heart to tell them there wont be any college now, but they will be allowed to come over and watch tv.

Since I don't see any price in the article, the OLED price to which you guys refer must be the Sony 11" OLED; it still retails for $2500, and sells for that at several vendors, but one good vendor has it for 'only' $1900.;)

Yah, but what about SED :)

SED was stillborn and will most likely never be available as a buyable technology. Actually, with OLED coming on, SED is moot.

Since I don't see any price in the article, the OLED price to which you guys refer must be the Sony 11" OLED; it still retails for $2500, and sells for that at several vendors, but one good vendor has it for 'only' $1900.;)

Why not wait till CES2010 and then we might have a better idea of what's going on as far as PRODUCTION AND PRICE

My guess is that OLED will invade the small screen market first. You'll see mp3 players and phones with OLED. Then laptops and monitors. Then finally large HDTV. It may take a few years, but it'll hopefully get here.

You guess? The Zune HD has an OLED screen and was launched 2 months ago. I agree with your point, just not in your use of the future tense.

I've seen 2 articles this week that OLED will be a key feature at CES 2010.
How Price affordable we see it is another story.
Big investments being made by Samsung and LG which means that certainly PANNY will follow if they haven't already started.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/blogs/team+hcc/oled+back+fashion+samsung+and+lg+prepare+fight+over+superthi n+panel+market+11+11+09

The actual title of the article in the link is:

"OLED Back in Fashion as Samsung and LG prepare to fight over superthin panel market." This is really not good news since it suggests that the market for OLED are the style conscious, not the performance market.

The price differential between OLED at 11 inches and LCD at 11 inches is about 25 to 1 more expensive for OLED.

2010 will bring the 15 inch to the US at ~$2,500 with a price differential of about 20 to 1 compared to 15 inch LCDs.

I have no interest in the whopping ~32 inch OLED at >$10,000, (and probably much more).


When HDTV first appeared there was the 32 inch sony direct view CRT for $8,000, and the 56 in Panasonic CRT RPTV for $5,500. When the price of the Sony dropped to $2,000 people bought a fair number, but there was also a huge market for truly big screens. The market for big screens has only grown.

Meanwhile LCD makers are working hard to eliminate the gap in performance between LCD and plasma. At this point, LCD technology is already so good that LCD holds 90% of the market. Performance features including LED backlighting, local dimming and 240 Hz are good enough to satisfy both the mass market and a good portion of the enthusiast market.

I believe that OLED will not become competitive until the price differential is no more than 3 to 1. That suggests another 5-7 years for a 42 inch OLED at $3,000 or less, and as much as 10 years for 65 inch OLEDs at $10,000 or less.

Once again, manufacturers are saying 2016 prices will be on par with LCD prices today. So don't hold your breath. People have always been saying "oh in a couple years we'll have OLED" or "SED" or "1Thz Cpus" etc.. etc... A lot of people don't seem to grasp the concept that every technology is different, as is every technological improvement. Sometimes there's a huge leap and sometimes there's tons of research cost for a small improvement that takes a long time to arrive (if it doesn't get shelved by something else in the interim). Until something actually hits the market, you have no idea about its quality as a product, whether the current version is even practical for what most people want it for, and if the tech is available in that form if it's economically practical yet. If someone's considering buying a TV it can't hurt to wait for CES to see what's announced, but if money is at all an issue, they shouldn't hold their breath. Current LED-backlit TVs are very expensive (at least for local-dimming ones) and OLED cost even more to produce so it's unrealistic to think you'll get an OLED for anywhere near LCD/Plasma/Rear-Projection prices. In the future, yeah sure, but it's easy to kid yourself into thinking the next years tech will be perfect at whatever price you want it to be. The reality is that this is very rarely the case.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10387108-1.html

"




I believe that OLED will not become competitive until the price differential is no more than 3 to 1. That suggests another 5-7 years for a 42 inch OLED at $3,000 or less, and as much as 10 years for 65 inch OLEDs at $10,000 or less.

why would manufacturers be starting plants to sell OLED at non competitive prices. Granted OLED will not be as cheap as PLASMA or LCD, However I think that the price will drop rapidly. And if the QUALITY is that much better than LCD or Plasma there could be a nice fan club. Better idea after CES 2010

OLED is set up to be a manufacturing win/win from a cost/performance stand point. With less total parts needed than lcd and a competitive marketplace with everyone trying to get in on the action, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Samsung, Panasonic, and LG delivering 32" oleds at around $2000 after the next couple of years @ online retailers.

Sony, on the other hand has such a big thing here, that I hope they don't price themselves out of the action.

OLED has been in development since 1987. Research and development costs money. This money is initially passed onto the consumer until the inital investment is recooped. The end. :)

OLED is set up to be a manufacturing win/win from a cost/performance stand point. With less total parts needed than lcd...Here is the problem that OLED faces, it will be expensive to start as we have already seen and despite the "Manufacturing win/win" it is now way behind.

Yes they will be less expensive to produce, but all of the plants that are now in operation producing PDPs and LCDs are paid for and there are allot of them. New OLED plants will have to compete with this.

In the style competiton on who's panel can be thinner, how much thinner do you want? Is a 60" panel that is 6mm thick really practical? LCD with edge lit LED BL is already about as thin as I would go from a practical standpoint.

Also what many people here don't mention is that OLED will have the same issues as older and some newer PDPs, burn in and uneven panel aging. The small Sony set was estimated to have a Blue lifetime of ~17K hours. When you are now competing against PDPs and LCDs that are advertised as 100K hours until half brightness, that is significant, even if the 17K were to double.

IMO, the OLED will be received as well as previous technology has been. The price is great IMO. In 1998, i viewed my first plasma display. A 13" that retailed for 13K Canadian. By comparison, these OLED's are a bargain. Consumers with $ to burn are always going to be there to be the first with the new toys, regardless of price. Consumer electronics have drastically fallen in price. In 1983, my family paid $200 for the cutting edge gaming system-Atari. 25 yrs later, i pay $500 for a PS3 which doubles as a BD player. In 2002, i paid $2K for a 36 flat screen CRT, in 2007, I paid 3K for the highest level Panny plasma. The starting point for the OLED's is small by comparison. In 7-10 yrs, the 50"+ versions should be retailing for 3K or less.

Meanwhile LCD makers are working hard to eliminate the gap in performance between LCD and plasma. At this point, LCD technology is already so good that LCD holds 90% of the market. Performance features including LED backlighting, local dimming and 240 Hz are good enough to satisfy both the mass market and a good portion of the enthusiast market.


LCD with local dimming is not something the "enthusiast" will ever embrace. It will just be a mass market gimmick. They have a big problem with crushing blacks when there are not enough bright objects to "trigger " the LEDs. So starfields for example will dim un-naturally or disappear all together instead of being sharp and contrasty.

LED backlighting is no big deal either. Who cares if the light comes from a bulb or an LED. The extra 1/2 inch of thinness is not a big deal.

LCD is so good that it satisfies those who thought VHS looked good. While that may indeed be 90% of the market LCDs still suffer from PQ issues. OLED will still look better than LCD and plasma too.

LCD with local dimming is not something the "enthusiast" will ever embrace. It will just be a mass market gimmick. They have a big problem with crushing blacks when there are not enough bright objects to "trigger " the LEDs. So starfields for example will dim un-naturally or disappear all together instead of being sharp and contrasty.

LED backlighting is no big deal either. Who cares if the light comes from a bulb or an LED. The extra 1/2 inch of thinness is not a big deal.

LCD is so good that it satisfies those who thought VHS looked good. While that may indeed be 90% of the market LCDs still suffer from PQ issues. OLED will still look better than LCD and plasma too.

I have spent a huge amount of time looking at the Samsung 8500 set at my Local Best Buy MHT, it is directly above a Elite Kuro Pro-151fd, with a rough calibration I see very little to no evidence of crushing. No problems with the night sky, no real issue with blooming as long as your within about 10 deg of center. If I were to pick a weak spot for the set it would be that colors wash out noticeably and bloom becomes a serious issue as you move off center.

LED back lighting allows local dimming which is a big deal, it also significantly reduces power draw, and finally also improves the color gamut of the set according to the manufactures, the RGB back light Sony likes in particular offers the possibility of improved color gamut.

I am by no means the most serious videophile in the world but I would say I am a reasonably well educated consumer I do serious research before I buy, I have done a calibration on my TV based on online info and an HD calibration disk. comparing my set and the sets of many LCD preferring consumers to a VCR is just insulting the vast majority of HD TV owners. Are their flaws with my TV's picture yes, for me they are less distracting than the green phosphor smearing and dingy whites of the plasma sets I looked at before buying.

The truth is that LCD has made significant picture quality improvements with each generation of panel, and the upcoming UV2A, IPS Alpha, and other 10th generation panels will continue this trend. We are getting close to the point where Oled will not be able to offer a quantum leap performance enhancement over existing tech.

Having said that Oled is pretty much set as the future unless something radical changes or is discovered in the next few years, prices will continue to come down. Eventually the manufacturing process will allow Oled sets to be sold at prices much lower than current sets. The roll up screens are seriously cool it's possible that 10 years from now the typical new TV will be a $300 roll up 150" Oled with amazing picture by today's standards. Oled wall paper could become a reality, want to change the look in your room, download a new pattern, animated scenes, touch interactive surface like computers that cover almost everything in your house. Weatherized Oled siding for your house, holiday decorating could be a snap. Even fitted Oled wraps for cars, don't like the color of your paint, change it, multilayer transparent Oleds could enable glasses free 3d sets the likes of which we currently only wistfully long for. Oled has the very real potential to be a total game changer over the next 10 years.

Are their flaws with my TV's picture yes, for me they are less distracting than the green phosphor smearing and dingy whites of the plasma sets I looked at before buying.

There have been rumored bits by D-Nice regarding 2010 Panasonic PDPs that seem to indicate that the phosphor lag/trail issues that have plagued PDPs will be greatly reduced in addition to the effective reduction of ABL (through greater efficiency). Who knows, perhaps they will only be incremental steps towards resolving these issues, if at all... :p

I'm excited to see the rumored 27" Sony OLED! I guess we'll find out how much money, and when they will be available this January at CES 2010. :D :D :D

There have been rumored bits by D-Nice regarding 2010 Panasonic PDPs that seem to indicate that the phosphor lag/trail issues that have plagued PDPs will be greatly reduced in addition to the effective reduction of ABL (through greater efficiency). Who knows, perhaps they will only be incremental steps towards resolving these issues, if at all... :p

I'm excited to see the rumored 27" Sony OLED! I guess we'll find out how much money, and when they will be available this January at CES 2010. :D :D :DThe improvements that I've read about regarding 3D Plasma suggest that the phosphor decay times of the red and green have been cut in half (new phosphor compositions) to improve 3D capabilities (120Hz driving).

However, on a fundamental level it will be extremely tough to eliminate phosphor trails in PDPs. This is because the blue phosphor in PDPs has a decay time in the microseconds similar to OLED materials while red and green phosphors decay 10 to 100 times slower.

This of course does not factor in human perception in which the stated improvements may be enough to satisfy.

Cheers

The improvements that I've read about regarding 3D Plasma suggest that the phosphor decay times of the red and green have been cut in half (new phosphor compositions) to improve 3D capabilities (120Hz driving).

However, on a fundamental level it will be extremely tough to eliminate phosphor trails in PDPs. This is because the blue phosphor in PDPs has a decay time in the microseconds similar to OLED materials while red and green phosphors decay 10 to 100 times slower.

This of course does not factor in human perception in which the stated improvements may be enough to satisfy.

Cheers

Next year should continue to be very interesting in terms of the development and commercialization of display technology. While my reservations with PDPs might be resolved with Panasonic's 3D PDPs, we will also see (perhaps) a new generation of display technology hit the market as well. If Sony releases PHOLED based TVs, I believe we will be on a new era of display technology.... Interesting times none the less! ;)

The improvements that I've read about regarding 3D Plasma suggest that the phosphor decay times of the red and green have been cut in half (new phosphor compositions) to improve 3D capabilities (120Hz driving).New phosphor compositions?

Just a note that it makes me nervous to see things like this. That leads me down the trail to say "How well were they tested?" and "How resistant to aging are the new compositions?". Hate to see progress be pushed back by the need to go 3D.

I understand that the alternate title of this thread was "OLED appears to be coming off life support due to the style conscious".