Thank you for your advice. When the dish was installed in Prescott the installer took hours lining it up so all of the satellites were received which is why I suspected it was very difficult.

I haven't had Dish in several years so I can't speak to their latest eq. I can say that pointing the Dish 500 is rather simple. Getting their newer HD sats may be more of a challenge, especially if it's your first try. Again, starting off level will go a long way. You may even be able to find local installers who'll set you up without going through Dish. I've seen some work that was done in Nogales (no grounding, wires not secured to anything, poor cable terminations) and I'm sure that $50 would get your work done.

Good idea, I will phone around and see what they charge. Fortunately the house we will be moving into has a flat roof and there is a mounting bracket for a dish up there already. So no balancing on ladders. Thanks once again everyone for your advice, much appreciated.

Hi Y'all,

At the moment, I'm doing OTA via an ancient skinny wire dipole T antenna. I have line-of-sight to both Bigelow and Tumamoc. The antenna's arms are oriented roughly perpendicular to Tumamoc.

KVOA comes in great. Wimbledon final was spectacular. DD5.1 and incredible resolution--I could see the fuzz on the tennis balls.

My question is about KUAS 27.1 which, as I understand it, broadcasts from Tumamoc Hill which is less than a mile south of me.

As I mentioned, my antenna is orientated perpendicular to Tumamoc--I believe this the correct orientation for optimal reception. Yet, I get breakup of this signal. In contrast to KVOA which gives me perfect reception despite non-optimal antenna orientation. What's the problem with KUAS-HD...?

Also, KUAS-HD never seems to have DD5.1 despite the shows saying DD5.1 was "available". What's up with this? I have emailed KUAT for information, but they were not very helpful. I thought KUAT was supposed to be on the cutting edge of HD, but their video and audio seem pretty poor compared to KVOA.

I'll appreciate any light that can be shed on the issues with KUAS. Please advise. Thanks,

Peter H.


1) What are your cross-streets-- I can look at our contour map and see if I can figure something out

2) We don't have the dolby encoders needed to decode and re-encode the signal from PBS, and since we need to be able to have the automation insert EAS information if necessary, we're stuck at stereo. Good news is that I've seen the diagram for the 5.1 upgrade, so it's definitely in the works but I don't have a timetable as of yet. When I know something for sure, you'll know :)

I had DirecTV out for a free upgrade to the HD-DVR system, Slimline 5lnb and they were fantastic. He made sure everything worked and I was kinda wowed.

Problem is I can't get 18 or 58 in HD on this system. Used to get 18 with my OTA on my old system (never got 58 for some reason). Should I call D* or just live with it? I'm around Golf Links and Kolb for what it's worth.

I have Directv, and I receive both of them, however, 18 has no audio nor video, just blank.

You most likely got their newer DVR which does not natively give you OTA. You need the AM21 box which is an add-on that lets you recieve OTA signals on their newer DVR. DirecTV only carries ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC for their Tucson local HD. You are also missing a couple of sub-channels, PBS and the Spanish channels.

The AM21 retails for $50.00, but you may get them for less.

Oops. missed the OTA statement, however, I do get 18 and 58, which are now clear as a bell. I pay for local channels, and don't receive any OTA, even though my receivers are capable.

I'm also seeing a weaker signal from KUAT's new antenna. Prior to the switch, I was receiving 100% readings on both of my CM-7000 boxes and 92-94% on my Panasonic EZ-17. Following the switch and completion of antenna tuning, the 6.x channels have been never been much better than the low 30s on the CM-7000 boxes and mid 50s on the EZ-17. These are threshold signal levels for these receivers and I occasionally experience video/audio breakups. The signal readings of the other Mt. Bigelow digital transmitters remain unchanged. Fortunately I still get a reliable signal from their KUAS-DT transmitter on Tumamoc Hill.

A neighbor mentioned they've lost reception of KUAT's OTA digital channels. We've both sent e-mails about the lower signal levels, but haven't received a reply.

I don't know if this is a localized problem for those of us on the east side of Tucson. (I'm about 0.5 mile east of Broadway & Houghton.) The AZPM antenna replacement status page was removed several weeks ago. So, it appears the work has been completed and this is the level of performance we should expect from the "new and improved" antenna.

Update on 6 Digital:

We're still at half power-- The antenna has been replaced but we only have one amplifier cabinet of two operating. The replacement tube didn't work at the altitude that its at, so we're waiting on another that will work.

Seems like Channel 6 is back to full power. Thanks for the update Owijib0.

I've lost digital 58. Usually, signal strength is near 90, now nothing. Is it off the air or do I need to take a trip up to the attic? Been down since last night.

I'm getting "No Signal" on both 58-1 and 58-2. They were OK yesterday.

58-1 and 58-2 just came back on the air!

Same here. Maybe they just needed somebody to tell them it was off... :)

Does anyone know if there's a website or something that displays that status of the transmitter on Mt. Bigelow? It doesn't seem to be some of the time (usually in the morning).

I'm not sure if KUAS and KUAT are the same or not (if not could you direct me who to contact regarding KUAS?) but the sound on KUAS has always been noticeably quieter than all of the other DTV broadcast channels for the other networks. I watch KUAS as opposed to KUAT since KUAS is in HD most of the time and KUAT isn't because of the sub-channels, but I always have to turn up the volume 25% higher for KUAS programs compared to the other DTV channels in order for the sound to be at the same loudness. If the person that posts here about KUAT is involved with the KUAS broadcast, can you ask someone to check into this and maybe raise the levels if they are found to be low so the volume is closer to the other DTV broadcasts? Also is Dolby Digital sound coming anytime in the near future?

Thank You

Update on 6 Digital:

We're still at half power-- The antenna has been replaced but we only have one amplifier cabinet of two operating. The replacement tube didn't work at the altitude that its at, so we're waiting on another that will work.

Are you back to full power now, or did something else change? The signal strength indicator on my TiVo is now up at 72 for KUAT, compared to around 60 before. which means, no more drop-outs! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

Whatever you guys did, thanks! :)

What's the deal with KOLD, during CBS programming they pop a severe weather alert or some crawl about some upcoming news program, it takes the show out of HD and makes it go back to a SD picture, then the pop up goes away and it seems like it takes half the show for it go back to HD again. This is got to be the most annoying local channel there is for watching HD. I've already given up watching their news cast in favor of KVOA, their HD news cast is amazing. Shows like Oprah and ET which say their in HD but it still seems they show them in SD. Annoying as hell.

What's the deal with KOLD, during CBS programming they pop a severe weather alert or some crawl about some upcoming news program, it takes the show out of HD and makes it go back to a SD picture, then the pop up goes away and it seems like it takes half the show for it go back to HD again. This is got to be the most annoying local channel there is for watching HD. I've already given up watching their news cast in favor of KVOA, their HD news cast is amazing. Shows like Oprah and ET which say their in HD but it still seems they show them in SD. Annoying as hell.

They are just to cheap to buy the proper equipment needed to put a crawler up on the HD broadcast like channel 4 does so they have to switch to SD feed to display the crawler. It appears they still do all the switching between the HD and SD feeds manually and sometimes it appears they just forget to switch back to HD or the minimum wage person they hired to do it falls asleep a lot. Again to have it done properly would mean they might have to make an investment in some new equipment like the other local stations are doing.

I also only watch the KVOA news now. Channel 13 is just plain to cheap to do things the right way and it shows. They just do the minimum needed to comply with the rules and get by.

Funny how KOLD was the first DTV broadcast (besides PBS), but ever since the other network stations have come online they have been the red-headed stepchild of them all. KGUN and KMSB both have had Dolby Digital sound from the start, KVOA has it now along with their full HD capable local broadcast (I think KGUN is upgrading to that now as well), KOLD has had the weakest signal, lamest operators that forget to turn on HD half the time (I know the station's number by heart since I'm often calling to ask why something isn't in HD like it's supposed to be) and voila a minute later after "checking with the control room" the HD switch is flipped. I laugh every time I see that promo for their "3D" weather because I think to myself if you really wanted decent weather maps try going HD like KVOA not your pathetic SD "3D" poor excuse for a weather map.

Funny how KOLD was the first DTV broadcast (besides PBS), but ever since the other network stations have come online they have been the red-headed stepchild of them all. KGUN and KMSB both have had Dolby Digital sound from the start, KVOA has it now along with their full HD capable local broadcast (I think KGUN is upgrading to that now as well), KOLD has had the weakest signal, lamest operators that forget to turn on HD half the time (I know the station's number by heart since I'm often calling to ask why something isn't in HD like it's supposed to be) and voila a minute later after "checking with the control room" the HD switch is flipped. I laugh every time I see that promo for their "3D" weather because I think to myself if you really wanted decent weather maps try going HD like KVOA not your pathetic SD "3D" poor excuse for a weather map.


What is the number you call; maybe if more of us do it then they might get their act together.

Hello all:

With many thanks to dhett over at Radio-Info, I know have technical data for all of Tucson's digital stations on my site.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=83

If you see any mistakes, let me know.

By the way, is KWBA-DT having encoder issues? I thought they had LATV on 58-2, and I thought they were doing HD on 58-1, but the data I received says a single SD at 480i...

- Trip

What is the number you call; maybe if more of us do it then they might get their act together.

744-1313 it's the main number for KOLD, on the weekends you have to use option 9 for the news hotline and ask the person who answers the phone to check with the control room as to why the HD program that is supposed to be in HD isn't.

KGUN has morphed into KOLD lately though and they are not in HD more than KOLD has been lately. The Oregon Purdue game today didn't swith to HD on KGUN until mid-way through the 3rd quarter so after it was on for 2 Hrs. I plan on calling KGUN on Monday to find out why it wasn't in HD for so long, because when I e-mail Dave Kerrigan their supposed Operations Manager, he always replies back with "the operator forgot to flip the switch" and makes it sound like it's no big deal that they continue to have operators who either don't know their jobs or aren't doing them correctly, so I want to hear from the station manager or chief engineer what they are going to do about it. Hopkins a 6 week mini-series over the summer wasn't in HD for the first four weeks. I e-mailed KGUN about it starting with week 2 and first was told the controllers didnt' know why it wasn't in HD, then that it wasn't being sent from ABC in HD so contact them, then finally was told by Kerrigan his operators just weren't flipping the HD switch. He didn't seem concerned though that they weren't doing their jobs for 4 weeks in a row which I just don't understand, or that his "master controllers" were responding to me that they didn't know why it wasn't in HD or that it wasn't being sent in HD from ABC which was a blatant lie.

and today, the NASCAR race isn't in HD on ABC! can someone call ABC to flip HD on!

Directv shows that is on. Could it be your providers fault?

Late game just went to commercial on KOLD thanks to whoever called.

and today, the NASCAR race isn't in HD on ABC! can someone call ABC to flip HD on!It was KGUN's fault, not ABCs. Neighbors who have DirecTV saw the HD broadcast.

Based on their history one wonders if KGUN cares about their viewers or about quality. I tried to email them but they appear to have removed all email addresses from their web site.

It was KGUN's fault, not ABCs. Neighbors who have DirecTV saw the HD broadcast.

Based on their history one wonders if KGUN cares about their viewers or about quality. I tried to email them but they appear to have removed all email addresses from their web site.
I think that is what I pretty much indicated.

So how do you see KGUN from San Jose, or did you not change your profile?

Looks like 58-1 and 58-2 are back on the air. 58-1 appeared to be a digital rebroadcast of the analog signal (and a poor one at that).

Yep. Smallville is on right now and looks like a rebroadcast. It looks worse than SD.

Looks like 58-1 and 58-2 are back on the air. 58-1 appeared to be a digital rebroadcast of the analog signal (and a poor one at that).

KGUN and KWBA are now owned by the same company and have been combining studios over the last couple weeks.

Is it possible to receive KVOA Digital Television channel 4.1 Over the Air using an antenna where I live? I live near Swan and Sunrise in the Catalina Foothills. I saw that the broadcast tower is on Mt. Bigelow near Summerhaven, so it seems it would be difficult. Would the mountains and the angle of broadcast be interfering with reception? I hooked up an antenna to my digital tuner and am able to receive KUAS DT 27.1, but they broadcast from a tower southwest from where I live. I can also receive KWBA DT 58.1, although the signal is not as strong and they broadcast from the south. If it is possible to receive OTA DTV could you recommend an antenna? I currently have an RCA ANT121 antenna. I live in an apartment.

I am using a Hauppauge HVR-1800 NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner. for some reason I am unable to receive any digital channels when I hook up the digital tuner to cable. Does Comcast broadcast the local DTV stations unencrypted? I can receive all the analog channels fine.

I am using a Hauppauge HVR-1800 NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner. for some reason I am unable to receive any digital channels when I hook up the digital tuner to cable. Does Comcast broadcast the local DTV stations unencrypted? I can receive all the analog channels fine.

I have three sets with QAM tuners and they all receive all the local HD Digital channels directly off the Comcast service. They come in on channels 87, 88 and 89 and their sub-channels but most will remap to their normal channel as 4.1, 9.1, 11.1, etc.

I called KGUN today to have them turn on CC for NASCAR race today...

What they said....

oh we are currently in the
process of installing equipment
into our master control this has
been going on for about 2 weeks and with that
we have been
experiencing problems with our closed captioning GA


we have
been experiencing the problem
on and
off with all programming since
we started the construction
about 2 weeks ago


uhm it's a long process
we're doing the
hold upgrade
as well as 2 other
television stations and 4 radio stations
into our building
uhm with that
we have been experiencing numerous
problems since it's a complicated process
for our engineers we hope to have
that resolved
as soon as possible GA


===========
blah! They should have done that during summer before Fall season starts! becasue all NASCAR races wasn't on ABC that time.

At least the video is in HD on KOLD today for the NFL games, but the sound has been off by a second or more since the middle of the Giants Bengals game and is still out of whack for Pitt and Philly. It was popping and going in and out earlier before the delay it's had now for a couple of hours. I guess it's better to have the HD broadcast though with the sound out of sync than SD with the sound working if it's a conscious decision they are making. I wonder if there's anyone in the control room though at KOLD who even notices that the sound is off, or are they just asleep at the wheel again and don't even realize there's a problem.

I just sat down to watch two recordings of "The new adventures of Old Christine" from 9/17/08. Recorded from KOLD in prime time, BOTH recordings (they were reruns) were in SD, not in HD like they have been before. Did their "HD switch flipper" guy fall asleep on the job again? :) :rolleyes:

I've noticed the same audio delay issues with the HD signals for KGUN and KOLD on Cox's Expanded Basic QAM channels. KGUN is the worst, & closed captioning hasn't worked consistently for the last two weeks.

I sent them a general email, but no reply, so thanks Boult for making the call. I was busy watching Sunday night football last night, but it looks like the Emmy's last night were in SD also. That didn't seem right. Some of KGUN's commericals will also go 16:9 even when they're in SD. The SD signal from the news studio's live broadcasts does seem improved lately, it doesn't have that compressed look to it anymore. Why they don't show their syndicated evening game shows in HD when they are taped in HD, I don't know, but I wish they would.

is is just me or is KGUN showing HD shows in SD now..

bw

is is just me or is KGUN showing HD shows in SD now..

bw
Everybody, we all need to call KGUN next week and ask to speak to the Operations Manager and Station Manager about getting their DTV system fixed so they will start showing HD programs in HD again. I just called because the football game tonight is in SD and I talked to someone in the control room. He said they got new hardware a few weeks ago and the vendors aren't cooperating with getting it fixed and mgmt there isn't do much about it even though the controllers are trying to get it fixed. He said he's gotten a lot of calls but mgmt at the station doesn't seem to care enough to get the vendors there to fix the issues. If we all call and let the station mgr/operations mgr know we expect to have HD and they should be doing all they can to fix the problems they've created with whatever upgrades they've been doing, maybe it will get more action on their part.

KOLD's sound is off again today, which is weird because now that I think about it, it was fine during the week during primetime programming, so why is it out of sync again today for the football game. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering posting this, I doubt anyone from KOLD is checking this forum, in case anyone else happens to contact KOLD you can mention this continuing sound issue to them I guess.

KOLD and KGUN both just do not seem to care anything about HD. They both do the least and cheapest they can do to meet the minimum FCC requirements to keep their licenses.

Everybody, we all need to call KGUN next week and ask to speak to the Operations Manager and Station Manager about getting their DTV system fixed ...Definitely, I'm calling Monday. This has gone on long enough, and during their premier week no less. They should be embarrassed for working at this station, but I'm sure they could care less as usual.

Not only is the video in SD and fuzzy, but the audio seems delayed almost 1/2 second coming through Comcast. I suppose Desparate Housewives will be worthless to watch tonight like anything else last week. Only my wife could stomach watching the 2 hour recording of the Grey's Anatomy premier. The lipsync delay was too much for me.

13 is getting out of hand too. We should call them as well. BTW, anyone know why ET HD is not in HD? They didn't seem to have a problem with Survivor.

Everytime KOLD is not in HD when It is supposed to or any other problems call 744-1313 and choose the breaking news option and someone will answer even at night and the weekends. Ask them to contact their control room and fix the problem. The news people may finally get sick enough of being bothered that something will actually be done about the control rooms lack of doing what they are supposed to be doing.

Saturday night football on KGUN in SD was soooooooo irritating! I tried calling them but the front offices were closed and got a message similar to what KOLD does - press 1 to go to the newsroom. I didn't know who to ask for so I hung up. I guess by Sunday they had it figured out since NASCAR was in HD.

Does anyone know a direct # for KGUN when this happens?

Just talked to Julie Brinks at KGUN. Seems they are in the midst of quite a conversion mess. They are trying to convert entirely from SD to HD internally and have over 14 technical "experts" from all the intergrators working out a miriad of problems. One of them is the server which allows feeding through the recorded HD programs in full HD rather than SD. This has crashed several times and who knows when that will be working again. She says it's hit and miss right now.

As far as lipsync goes, they are working that out as a separate issue. She says it "may" be as earliy as this week. They need to calibrate it so that the cable stations can once and for all align their equipment to it. I'm sure you may know that off-air there is an annoying delay, but through cable it is unwatchable.

This is all part of the compliance for the Februrary switch over. They have put $2-3million into the station each year, $2 mill in Master Control and another $4 mill in Feb expected. They also have to comply with shut down requirements for PBS stations and set up for CW affiliate formats, etc.

Apparently too much stuff going on to get into any particular details and I'm not sure he understood what those were anyway. She did mention the networks themselves are having trouble sending HD on occasion.

I received this email today from KGUN in response to my complaint about no HD, especially during this "Stay at Home" week for season debut. I hope their engineers get this installed quickly.


We understand and share your frustration with the technical performance
of our station at present. We have been installing numerous pieces of
Digital equipment in our master control room and have encountered many
issues with that equipment. Our local, corporate, and equipment
engineers are working diligently to resolve these very complicated and
inconsistent equipment failures as quickly as we can. We appreciate your
patience and understanding during that process.

Ina Ronquillo
Assignment Editor
KGUN 9 On Your Side

Rich

We're moving to Houghton & Bilby area in a couple weeks. Any recommendations on who has the best HDTV service between Cox, DishNetwork, & DirectTV?

I live at Houghton and Poorman. Welcome to the neighborhood!

I am extremely pleased with DirecTV. They do carry the big 4 in HD. This area is very good for HD OTA signals. Pointing NNE, I get everything the city has to offer...

If you go with DirecTV, you will need to ask for the AM21 OTA Tuner to go with your DVR. I use Qwest DSL and am set with 7MB Down and 796k up for $39.95/month.

I received this email today from KGUN in response to my complaint about no HD, especially during this "Stay at Home" week for season debut. I hope their engineers get this installed quickly.




Rich
I didn't call KGUN last week, but I'm calling this week (I just called the news line about the NASCAR race and was grufly told they are aware it's not HD and supposedly working on fixing it). This is ridiculous, not only are these live programs they don't even have to record to time shift like they do primetime, but how can it be working yesterday for College Footbal and not today for the race??? Whatever the problems are, they need to hear from as many people as possible this isn't acceptable and we expect them to REALLY be doing everything possible to get the issues corrected, since if they were I'm not sure they would still be having issues weeks after they started their upgrades. Thx!

I am using a QAM tuner with Comcast Cable. I have noticed that on KUAS-DT channel 87.2 that the shows are not always in HD and the shows do not always line up with what is scheduled on the website for KUAS. Does anyone know the details of this or if there is another channel that lines up better.

I am using a QAM tuner with Comcast Cable. I have noticed that on KUAS-DT channel 87.2 that the shows are not always in HD and the shows do not always line up with what is scheduled on the website for KUAS. Does anyone know the details of this or if there is another channel that lines up better.

I noticed that also and it appears to me that during the day they are broadcasting the normal SD channel 6 version and then in the evening it switches to the HD programs. I'm going to send this question to the engineer at Comcast.

Hi all - need some help tuning in pbs hd 27-1 after a "upgrade" .
My new directv box has no antenna-in for locals and I do not get 27-1 hd anymore thru their sat system. My old hd box that was replaced still works as an ota receiver so I'm trying to tune it in like I did before the upgrade but every time I do a scan for locals on it I keep getting pbs-kids on 27-1 , not the main pbs HD channel. It worked before the upgrade, but when it was removed and unplugged, it lost the correct tuning.... grrrrr
thanks for any advice, Rich

I noticed that also and it appears to me that during the day they are broadcasting the normal SD channel 6 version and then in the evening it switches to the HD programs. I'm going to send this question to the engineer at Comcast.

Hi all - need some help tuning in pbs hd 27-1 after a "upgrade" .
My new directv box has no antenna-in for locals and I do not get 27-1 hd anymore thru their sat system. My old hd box that was replaced still works as an ota receiver so I'm trying to tune it in like I did before the upgrade but every time I do a scan for locals on it I keep getting pbs-kids on 27-1 , not the main pbs HD channel. It worked before the upgrade, but when it was removed and unplugged, it lost the correct tuning.... grrrrr
thanks for any advice, Rich

UPDATE: Just received the following answer this morning from the head Engineer at Comcast in regards to the KUAT HD 87.2 channel guide problems:

"In prep for the DTV transition, KUAT HD is beginning to mirror KUAT SD programming as the SD version will become a downconverted version of the HD channel. I let them know they need to update their programming with TV Guide, etc."

Not to insult the local PBS effort, but it really seems to lack direction. I understand the antenna issue, but that aside, their current plan doesn't make much sense. Why didn't they just leave things alone? PBS HD on 27 and fill 6/30 with as many sub-channels as you want. Furthermore, as RJRSW stated, why are all of the program guides such a mess? Doesn't seem like it should be this much of a mess to transition to DTV since they've been at it for quite some time already. And...why do we need to lead the future ensuring downconverted HD?

Not to insult the local PBS effort, but it really seems to lack direction. I understand the antenna issue, but that aside, their current plan doesn't make much sense. Why didn't they just leave things alone? PBS HD on 27 and fill 6/30 with as many sub-channels as you want.

Because the national 24/7 PBS-HD feed goes away on 02/17/09.

- Trip

Because the national 24/7 PBS-HD feed goes away on 02/17/09.

- Trip

In my best Carson impersonation .... I did not know that ....

Thanks. Seems like the guide data (at least for DirecTV) has been cleaned up and is more accurate than last week.

Thanks for the replies - this sounds like bad news if I read it correctly. I liked the HD programming on 27-1 a great deal more than the SD shows on 6-1. If that separate HD programming schedule is going away in a few months anyway then that makes finding a way to tune it in again a moot point.

Yes, it's getting replaced on the satellite with soft feeds and PBS-X HD (East and West) which is an alternative schedule designed not to compete with regular PBS affiliates, and I'm seriously doubting that will be all HD.

- Trip

Comcast has recently added 3 new HD channels: Fox News, Speed, and FX. :)
Unfortunately they are also raising prices again. :(

I just noticed that what used to be
6.2 PBS Kids
6.3 V-Me
6.4 Create

are now

6.2 V-Me
6.3 Create
6.4 is just blank.

I called KUAT and the lady answering the phone told me that PBS Kids is now on 27.3, since last night. However, when I scan for channels (using a TiVo Series 3, OTA) it does not pick up any 27.3 channel.

Before I contact TiVo to request a line-up change (I still have the old one), can someone confirm that 27.3 is indeed PBS Kids now?

It seems that 27.3 is now a low def only thing they call "the World" which is rehashed old nature shows. I am really up to here with these stations jamming all this multicast lowdef down our throats at the expense of a single HD channel.
And don't get me started on the KGUN mess. These managers are money-mad capitalists who define everything against profit and loss. I am glad to see forum dwellers are phoning them. I will have the cops arresting me if I call any of these people and tell them what I really think of their policies.
I had to do a new scan on my DirecTV non-DVR HD box to make it find 27-3 at all. Did you do a new scan?

Yes, I did a new scan, but I have had problems with the reception of 27.1 and 27.2 before, and maybe it just doesn't pick up 27.3... might have to contact TiVo and/or rerun guided setup on the TiVo and see what happens.

So are you saying that PBS Kids is NOT on 27.3? 6.2 was always SD (480) so it sounds like at least that is the same.

Today's Lineup:

6.1 - PBS
6.2 - V-ME (Spanish)
6.3 - Create
6.4 - Off the air

27.1- PBS
27.2- PBS Kids
27.3- World

Of course, this could change based on the whim of whoever is making choices (not decisons).

It would be nice to know what their roadmap is and where they plan to land. This is truly getting annoying.

Thanks for the line-up.

Yeah, I need to contact TiVo and ask them to change the line-up for me, so I really hope they stick with this.

Of course, I don't know why they didn't just keep the 6.x like they were. For me, this is pretty bad, since I don't really get 27.x at all with my antenna. :(

Today's Lineup:

6.1 - PBS
6.2 - V-ME (Spanish)
6.3 - Create
6.4 - Off the air

27.1- PBS
27.2- PBS Kids
27.3- World

Of course, this could change based on the whim of whoever is making choices (not decisons).

It would be nice to know what their roadmap is and where they plan to land. This is truly getting annoying.

This is final, approved, permanent (AFAIK, and I work here) channel lineup. As you've noticed, we're now over compressing the HD to crap 720 as well. I tried to be as convincing as possible to keep 1080i on one mountain at >16, but in the end the appeal of having "HD" on both mountains won out. The problem is coverage-- 6 can't hit the foothills, and 27 can't hit green valley/sierra vista. In order to offer PBS proper to everyone as with analog, we need to simulcast it on both. I pitched the idea of a 1080i+1 sub / 480p wide + 3 subs but in the end market research determined that 720+2 / 720+2 was optimal, quality be damned.

We've had 27-1 downressed for some time, and there were no viewer complaints so they kept it.

We still feed cox and comcast 17ish megabit 1080i over fiber, so if you've got cable, you can still see us in high quality there. Dish and Directv pull our OTA so y'all that enjoy triple compression. Sigh.

This is final, approved, permanent (AFAIK, and I work here) channel lineup.

Good to know, I'm writing to TiVo right now. :) I need to go out and get a better antenna now, I guess... :/
Don't forget to have the KUAT website updated, it still says 6.2 for Kids there. :)


We still feed cox and comcast 17ish megabit 1080i over fiber, so if you've got cable, you can still see us in high quality there.
Do they retransmit it uncompressed though?

Interesting that the cable version is better than the OTA version.

Good to know, I'm writing to TiVo right now. :) I need to go out and get a better antenna now, I guess... :/
Don't forget to have the KUAT website updated, it still says 6.2 for Kids there. :)


Guess what I'm doing now ;)


Do they retransmit it uncompressed though?

Interesting that the cable version is better than the OTA version.


No, we still decompress the mpeg from PBS, then recompress it. This is for several reasons. Primarily, it's so we can insert local IDs, EAS graphics and tones. Secondarily, PBS is preparing (and have been as long as I can remember...) to deliver content to affiliates as prepackaged clips, as opposed to a ready-to-air transport stream. We built our setup with this in mind, but until we get HQ clips from them, recompressing is the best we can do.

Cable wins with the HQ feed because we don't need to dupe the HD feed for cable, so it's HD+4 subs in the bandwidth used for 2HD+4 subs OTA.

This is final, approved, permanent (AFAIK, and I work here) channel lineup. As you've noticed, we're now over compressing the HD to crap 720 as well. I tried to be as convincing as possible to keep 1080i on one mountain at >16, but in the end the appeal of having "HD" on both mountains won out. The problem is coverage-- 6 can't hit the foothills, and 27 can't hit green valley/sierra vista. In order to offer PBS proper to everyone as with analog, we need to simulcast it on both. I pitched the idea of a 1080i+1 sub / 480p wide + 3 subs but in the end market research determined that 720+2 / 720+2 was optimal, quality be damned.

We've had 27-1 downressed for some time, and there were no viewer complaints so they kept it.

We still feed cox and comcast 17ish megabit 1080i over fiber, so if you've got cable, you can still see us in high quality there. Dish and Directv pull our OTA so y'all that enjoy triple compression. Sigh.


Well, thanks for fighting the good fight. While the end result is disappointing, it is acceptable. Any idea on if/when PBS HD will land on DirecTV? There was a press release at the beginning of the year stating that agreements were in place. If/when they do go live, do you think they'll take the 1080i signal or will they simply put up whatever they can pull in OTA at their uplink center?

Cox and Comcast generally do not recompress local channels. At this point, I'm kind of surprised that PBS hasn't started feeding at 720p. Most member stations seem to be converting to 720p anyway, so it would make more sense if they just sent it that way. The few remaining stations that pass HD through without additional compression could just as easily switch to 720p, and all the current 720p stations with fancy encoders would be able to rate-shape/requantize rather than decompressing, format converting, and recompressing like they do now.

Well, thanks for fighting the good fight. While the end result is disappointing, it is acceptable. Any idea on if/when PBS HD will land on DirecTV? There was a press release at the beginning of the year stating that agreements were in place. If/when they do go live, do you think they'll take the 1080i signal or will they simply put up whatever they can pull in OTA at their uplink center?

Agreements are being hammered out for a possible feed of the same 1080i we feed cable, but ATM, the plan is for them to pull OTA

Cox and Comcast generally do not recompress local channels. At this point, I'm kind of surprised that PBS hasn't started feeding at 720p. Most member stations seem to be converting to 720p anyway, so it would make more sense if they just sent it that way. The few remaining stations that pass HD through without additional compression could just as easily switch to 720p, and all the current 720p stations with fancy encoders would be able to rate-shape/requantize rather than decompressing, format converting, and recompressing like they do now.

They really want to move to the faster-than-realtime file transfers, so my guess is that any additional work on the national HD feed is an "wasted effort" that's not moving toward that. I expect nothing will change in the foreseeable future-- it's been forever since the last update on that plan. We might hear something new at the PBS tech conference following NAB.

"This is final, approved, permanent (AFAIK, and I work here) channel lineup. As you've noticed, we're now over compressing the HD to crap 720 as well. I tried to be as convincing as possible to keep 1080i on one mountain at >16, but in the end the appeal of having "HD" on both mountains won out. The problem is coverage-- 6 can't hit the foothills, and 27 can't hit green valley/sierra vista. In order to offer PBS proper to everyone as with analog, we need to simulcast it on both. I pitched the idea of a 1080i+1 sub / 480p wide + 3 subs but in the end market research determined that 720+2 / 720+2 was optimal, quality be damned.

We've had 27-1 downressed for some time, and there were no viewer complaints so they kept it.

We still feed cox and comcast 17ish megabit 1080i over fiber, so if you've got cable, you can still see us in high quality there. Dish and Directv pull our OTA so y'all that enjoy triple compression. Sigh."


The only reason you get no complaints at KUAT from viewers when you downgrade the picture is that we are sick and tired of banging our heads against a wall and seeing the stations do whatever they d*** well please. What is the point of complaining when this is the result anyway? Do not blame the viewers for the lack of care about image quality. And this business of analog 6 being so impossible to get at low power after weeks of no picture at all? It is unconscionable for the stations to just let the analog go dark while they work on other stuff. ANd then to have the end result be a giant step backwards for the OTA viewers? WHen I see these pledge drives I just want to vomit. I take major issue with the idea that cable viewers are getting a better picture. That should be grounds for a FCC complaint and a big fine.
To answer an original question someone posed about what is on 27-3: it is not kids at all but rehashed stuff that should be in HD now smashed to SD from the night before.
This entire digital enterprise never should have happened; the frustration of being on the receiving end of all these machinations is not worth the end result especially when the promise has turned out to be a big lie.

The only reason you get no complaints at KUAT from viewers when you downgrade the picture is that we are sick and tired of banging our heads against a wall and seeing the stations do whatever they d*** well please. What is the point of complaining when this is the result anyway? Do not blame the viewers for the lack of care about image quality.


Constructive, civil, viewer criticism and suggestions are taken seriously around here.

And this business of analog 6 being so impossible to get at low power after weeks of no picture at all? It is unconscionable for the stations to just let the analog go dark while they work on other stuff. ANd then to have the end result be a giant step backwards for the OTA viewers?


Would you rather we spend thousands of member dollars on fixing a transmitter that will be turned off in February? I would argue that our service now, even with its faults, is worlds better than a single analog station.


WHen I see these pledge drives I just want to vomit.

Ha.

I take major issue with the idea that cable viewers are getting a better picture. That should be grounds for a FCC complaint and a big fine.
To answer an original question someone posed about what is on 27-3: it is not kids at all but rehashed stuff that should be in HD now smashed to SD from the night before.
This entire digital enterprise never should have happened; the frustration of being on the receiving end of all these machinations is not worth the end result especially when the promise has turned out to be a big lie.

So you'd rather have us artificially reduce what we are technically capable of delivering? Look-- You may be able to receive both 6 and 27, but many viewers are not. Some compromise was going to have to have been made, and although it was not the one I would have preferred-- it does maximize the viewing options for people with 6 OR 27.

As for your complaints about World-- it's not really being "smashed" at all, since it comes to us from PBS as an SD feed ;) If you want to watch the show in HD, catch it or DVR it the night before :)

Qwijib0

I was talking with Scott over at Comcast the other day and we were talking about the guide information no longer matching the show being broadcast on Comcast HD channel 220 for a lot of the day. Do you know when the guide information will be updated so Comcast will be able to show the correct show information?

Referring to the thread about 6.x and 27.x and the elaborate defense of the indefensible:

Apparently the operative words are "civil and constructive" as defined by who? Robert Shelton? Of all the arrogance; to suggest that some unidentified TV station employee is to be the sole arbiter of what criticism is to be ignored based on the wording of the comment? Unbelievable.
So how shall we word our critique of the decision to degrade the broadcast OTA pictures in favor of the cable subscribers to ensure it is "taken seriously?" Please enlighten us as to the proper protocol.
The dazzling array of numbers and decimals and acronyms and meetings and processes changes nothing about the basic fact that the viewing public is being treated as a child who will receive a good spanking unless he is polite and does not pout when his toys are taken away.
I can never get past the front desk when they even answer at all. On the rare occasions I do, the favorite tool of management, the voice mail dead end, does not constitute a serious acceptance of my opinion.
I would suggest that anyone who is currently pledging money to this particular enterprise cut it off unless and until the product is restored to its former quality. The contempt shown by this station and at least two others toward the viewing public is deserving of in-kind response by us the viewers in the form of switching away or switching off.
I categorically state for the record in clear terms: the reduction of resolution over the air in favor of cable is wrong. It is an insult to the viewers and residents of this community whose tax dollars support this station. The increase in multiple SD feeds of multiple reruns of children's programming that features people who have been dead for several years as a trade-off to take away HD is wrong. These decisions are not in the public interest. They show contempt for the public interest.

Qwijib0

I was talking with Scott over at Comcast the other day and we were talking about the guide information no longer matching the show being broadcast on Comcast HD channel 220 for a lot of the day. Do you know when the guide information will be updated so Comcast will be able to show the correct show information?

If they pull from tribune, the lag time between our submissions and when it gets pushed out is about two weeks. The lineup was finalized late last week, so it should be all straightened out mid next week. I'm not sure what the turnaround is on TV Guide data, but it's probably the same.

So how shall we word our critique of the decision to degrade the broadcast OTA pictures in favor of the cable subscribers to ensure it is "taken seriously?" Please enlighten us as to the proper protocol.
The dazzling array of numbers and decimals and acronyms and meetings and processes changes nothing about the basic fact that the viewing public is being treated as a child who will receive a good spanking unless he is polite and does not pout when his toys are taken away.
The contempt shown by this station and at least two others toward the viewing public is deserving of in-kind response by us the viewers in the form of switching away or switching off.
I categorically state for the record in clear terms: the reduction of resolution over the air in favor of cable is wrong. It is an insult to the viewers and residents of this community whose tax dollars support this station.


Cable is not being 'favored' over OTA. There is no conspiracy to provide an inferior service for free and require viewers subscribe to a pay service to receive 'premium PBS-HD'. I apologise in advance if I once again resort to numbers and decimals here ;)

We have a duty as a public service to best serve our audience. The more services we can offer to our audience-- the better. While there may be a large amount of repeat programming at the moment, many of the new networks (World especially) have unique-to-them programming in the pipe. Please bear with us as we quintuple the amount of programming we provide to you. Producing quality television takes time and money, what you see today is only a startup smattering of shows, some duplicates, across the 5 PBS networks.

We are in a unique position, with 2 television licenses in a single market, to offer all of this choice. Most PBS affiliates must choose what to carry, we can do it all. This is where the location of transmitters and Tucson's geography come in to play. We simply cannot offer _everything_ _everywhere_. We did not want exclude anyone from the main PBS feed, which is HD, so it must be on both stations. The trick is how to spread the subchannels, keeping in mind what areas of tucson can receive them.

This HD+2 distribution of channels, while compromising HD quality, does offer everyone in our market at least 2 subchannels to choose from. While you and I may have preferred an alternate solution, many other viewers don't really care about HD quality and prefer the additional programming. For every guy who prefers a pristine HD feed, there are others who want spanish language or kids programing.

Our solution was to at least try and offer a high quality service somewhere, and we were able to on cable. FCC regulations require that our digital feed on cable be available unencrypted-- so even if you're just paying for the lowest tier basic, basic cable you can get us in 1080i. This is also a compromise, because it does require a cable subscription-- but it's the best we could do.

The solution in place now is a result of us trying to balance everything to best serve our mission of serving the community. It's not perfect (no solution short of a _3rd_ transmitter could be),but it is a valid compromise that is more than an arbitrary decision made by some out-of-touch and ignorant executive.

The increase in multiple SD feeds of multiple reruns of children's programming that features people who have been dead for several years as a trade-off to take away HD is wrong. These decisions are not in the public interest. They show contempt for the public interest.

Fred Rogers was a national institution for a reason.

I would suggest that anyone who is currently pledging money to this particular enterprise cut it off unless and until the product is restored to its former quality.
[snip]
The increase in multiple SD feeds of multiple reruns of children's programming that features people who have been dead for several years as a trade-off to take away HD is wrong.

Just wanted to add another data point...
1. Personally, I could NEVER get a good analog signal, so the 6.x and 27.x channels are a godsend, even in SD.
2. My son watches Mr Rogers and loves it. :) In fact, PBS Kids is the only reason I even care about KUAT. :D I just wish that PBS Kids would have stayed on 6.x. :(

Quijib0: Thank you for your efforts and contributions to this forum. I appreciate the info you have provided.

Thomash85715: Please don't vent your frustrations on Quijib0. He is just a messenger, and if you chase him away from here, we all lose.

Thanks

Has anyone ever seen any HD programming on FSN HD on Comcast channel 258? The Comcast TVplanner site shows simulcast of what's on the FSN SD channel (31), but whenever I have checked 258 I always just get a color bar test pattern. I was really hoping to get some of the Arizona football and/or basketball games in HD. I called Comcast and they didn't seem to know much about the content, but they thought it was unlikely that the college games were even being filmed in HD. FSN has not yet responded to my inquiry. Anyone here know anything about this? Thanks.

Has anyone ever seen any HD programming on FSN HD on Comcast channel 258? The Comcast TVplanner site shows simulcast of what's on the FSN SD channel (31), but whenever I have checked 258 I always just get a color bar test pattern. I was really hoping to get some of the Arizona football and/or basketball games in HD. I called Comcast and they didn't seem to know much about the content, but they thought it was unlikely that the college games were even being filmed in HD. FSN has not yet responded to my inquiry. Anyone here know anything about this? Thanks.

FSN-HD seems to be used only when there's an HD truck at an event. They haven't ever, that I've seen, upconverted the SD version to feed it- nor put anything but live events on it.

FSN AZ HD is only a part-time channel for now. Right now, you can expect to see 20 Coyotes games (schedule (http://coyotes.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=385908&page=NewsPage&service=page)), all Suns home games carried by FSN, and 1-3 college football games in HD each Saturday. http://www.hdsportsguide.com is a good resource; just look for FSN-A in the Network column. http://www.lsufootball.net/tvschedule.htm is a good site to check to see what college football games will be in HD. USC@Arizona will be in HD on FSN AZ this Saturday, kickoff at 6:15.

Quijib0: Thank you for your efforts and contributions to this forum. I appreciate the info you have provided.

Thomash85715: Please don't vent your frustrations on Quijib0. He is just a messenger, and if you chase him away from here, we all lose.

Thanks

Couldn't agree more, Thomash85715 has made it very clear to everyone as to how he feels about the subject. It's time to move this thread on to something more constructive.

Thanks much for the info on FSN HD, very helpful!

There was a great show on NBC a while back entitled Just Shoot Me.
Nobody gets it. But I am beginning to.
If everyone wants everyone to be a polite sheep and put on our sweaters and sneakers to settle in for an evening of rerun SD multicasts, fine. I will watch something else. My opinion on this is that the OTA viewing public is being shortchanged. May I please express that without character assassination? I think this is called a "forum." What kind of "forum" uses intimidation to silence dissent?
There is no way for anyone to challenge the facts of the admission that 1080 goes to cable and not to air. I am not attacking the person posting on here, but the policies and arrogance of his employer who he is appointing himself to represent. I question the suggestion that that is somehow an OK thing for a broadcaster to do. It is not in my view and I reserve the right to express that. I have never mentioned any other posting person's name in a post and I shall not. Why do people attack me by name?
Bait and switch is illegal when a car dealer does it. The viewing public was baited into buying HD hardware and is now being switched to SD. I say on the forum in the most civil and respectful way I know how in the english language that this is wrong.

I have been enjoying the PBS-HD broadcasts on 27-1, while using DirecTV for HD versions of all my other local stations.

I, too, have noticed the recent degradation of HD quality on 27-1, due, I assume to the addition of sub-channels 27-2 and 27-3.

For DirecTV subscribers like me, a good solution would be to let DirecTV carry the main PBS-HD on satellite, just as they now carry NBC, CBS, and ABC. I think KUAT/KUAS (or is it National PBS?) should reconsider its current policy of refusing to let DirecTV carry anything in HD unless they agree to carry all the sub-channels as well.

The 24/7 PBS-HD feed ends on 02/17/09. There's going to be no such service to carry on DirecTV. Only PBS-X HD which will be like KUAT is now, with HD only when available, and on a schedule that does not line up with any other PBS station.

- Trip

DirecTV isn't carrying PBS HD anywhere yet. The plan is to carry the main HD channel from each market where they do HD LILs, plus 2 national SD channels, which haven't been announced. This is supposed to be in place by the end of the year.

I think KUAT/KUAS (or is it National PBS?) should reconsider its current policy of refusing to let DirecTV carry anything in HD unless they agree to carry all the sub-channels as well.

What a faster way to get PBS off Directv. Can you imagine if each market made such demands? Who would be paying for all this added satellite capacity? I for one would not want to.

I'd rather see KUAT management grow a spine and put real HD back on 27 for those that want HD and let the rest of the market rely on 6 as they have for years. With the cable and satellite penetration now in Tucson they really can't justify downgrading both 6 and 27 under the guise of serving their market.

Dave

Maybe they already did grow a spine, and the duplication of HD channels was a result of that. With the prospect of losing $$$ from those who haven't jumped on the cable bandwagon, they can't justify not downgrading both 6 and 27. The small number of viewers who want higher quality have the option of going with cable, which is better than what most everyone else across the country is getting, which is 1 HD + 2-3 SD, with cable carrying the same feed.

I'd rather see KUAT management grow a spine and put real HD back on 27 for those that want HD and let the rest of the market rely on 6 as they have for years. With the cable and satellite penetration now in Tucson they really can't justify downgrading both 6 and 27 under the guise of serving their market.

Dave

The digital transmitters have a different footprint than the analog ones-- reception of 6 / 27 does not imply reception of 6.x and 27.x -- so are you suggesting that some people must choose between PBS-only (since the main feed is HD now) or subs only?

The fact is, to most of the population, "HD" is indestinguishable from HD. I'm on your side WRT desire for a 1080i OTA feed (and did my best to swing final channel assignments that way), but our mission is to serve the community best-- and providing additional programming choices is more in line with that.

I explained the entire decision-making process above, and in an attempt to still provide a 1080i service, we have control of our own feed to the cablecos giving you _some_ opportunity to get us in high-rate 1080i. It's a $15 opportunity, yes, but better than nothing at all.

Qwijib0

Was wondering if you would have any info on this problem. I noticed that we have lost both the TVGOS information and the time and date stamp that according to my understanding has been normally carried on your channel 6 broadcast feed.

Is this just temporary are is this data moving to another broadcast channel?

Qwijib0

Was wondering if you would have any info on this problem. I noticed that we have lost both the TVGOS information and the time and date stamp that according to my understanding has been normally carried on your channel 6 broadcast feed.

Is this just temporary are is this data moving to another broadcast channel?

We have started feeding analog 6 from a downconvert of the HD feed-- thus bypassing all of the equipment that used to inject that data. I would doubt that it's coming back, seeing as its usefulness will expire in February. I will ask around, but I don't yet know of plans yet to implement the digital-compatible TVGOS, just ATSC standard PSIP data.

As far as I know, the digital TVGOS has an exclusive deal with CBS. As of 09/12/08, the last time I got updated information, KOLD-DT did not carry it.

- Trip

Hello all. I'm near Grant and Silverbell so when I'm getting OTA I have to move my Silver Sensor antenna basically 90 degrees depending on if i want to watch 4-1,6-1(2,3), 9-1, 13-1,2. or if i want to watch 18-1 and 27-1,2,3. Is there any simple way if i get two SilverSensors and point one one way and the other the other and combine the signal with a reverse splitter to get all the channels without having to align the antenna's each time?


Also, I did call KUAT to give my opinion and concern (respectfully) about how my wife's (and mine) favorite show America's Test Kitchen was taken from pretty much every day (especially on Create but also on KUAT) down to just Saturdays. The response was an empty-spirited "that's how it is". Does KUAT dictate programming or does PBS and KUAT just plays what they get?

Also, I did call KUAT to give my opinion and concern (respectfully) about how my wife's (and mine) favorite show America's Test Kitchen was taken from pretty much every day (especially on Create but also on KUAT) down to just Saturdays. The response was an empty-spirited "that's how it is". Does KUAT dictate programming or does PBS and KUAT just plays what they get?

We just pass create through, so we have no control over that feed. We used to just pipe through the national HD feed, but we've recently started scheduling it ourselves-- so that channel is fully controlled by us now. ATC may come back once the transition to kids is complete, right now the afternoons are kids programming but in the future it won't be that way (since kids has its own channel). Can't say for sure what will be scheduled in the afternoon slots though.

As far as I know, the digital TVGOS has an exclusive deal with CBS. As of 09/12/08, the last time I got updated information, KOLD-DT did not carry it.

- Trip

This is a link that will allow you to report that you cannot receive the TVGOS information so they can follow up with the local carriers:

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/

Anyone that is having the problem should report it so something gets resolved!

Does the fact that KGUN & KWBA now have common owners have to do with KWBA not showing HD? I only watch a couple of programs but do miss having them in HD.

Tony

Hello all. I'm near Grant and Silverbell so when I'm getting OTA I have to move my Silver Sensor antenna basically 90 degrees depending on if i want to watch 4-1,6-1(2,3), 9-1, 13-1,2. or if i want to watch 18-1 and 27-1,2,3. Is there any simple way if i get two SilverSensors and point one one way and the other the other and combine the signal with a reverse splitter to get all the channels without having to align the antenna's each time?

I'd be interested to know this too!

Hello all. I'm near Grant and Silverbell so when I'm getting OTA I have to move my Silver Sensor antenna basically 90 degrees depending on if i want to watch 4-1,6-1(2,3), 9-1, 13-1,2. or if i want to watch 18-1 and 27-1,2,3. Is there any simple way if i get two SilverSensors and point one one way and the other the other and combine the signal with a reverse splitter to get all the channels without having to align the antenna's each time?

Bottom line is you can only have one antenna connected at a time. You have two options. The first is to use the two antennas but get a switch either manual or remote control to switch between the antennas. The second is to try a multi directional antenna but they tend to be less sensitive to the OTA signal so can be a problem. Go to a Radio Shack and they should have everything you need and can explain how each option would work.

This is a link that will allow you to report that you cannot receive the TVGOS information so they can follow up with the local carriers:

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/

Anyone that is having the problem should report it so something gets resolved!

Thanks!
I reported the problem and I am working with TVGOS support to get it fixed.

I also spoke to the lead tech at Comcast here in Tucson today. He confirmed that the signal is gone from PBS-6 analog.

Mick

Regarding multiple vectors: I too live near grant and silverbell. My solution was to stack two antennas about 90 degrees apart on my one mast with a passive combiner I bought at a local electronic wholesaler (not radio shack). I get digital 4, 6, 9, 11, 13, 18, 27, 40, 46 and 58 without ever moving the array. Most of the analogs come through OK but with ghosting. Feel free to private msg me for details if needed.
Change of Subject: I am shocked to read about loss of time and date info. Last time I looked, there is almost four months till the big cutoff. What is the big rush to just forget about all of us whose automatic VCRs rely on that signal?
Another Change of Subject: After a phone talk with a certain station licensed to the Board of Regents wherein I was denied the opportunity to voice my opinion to the manager about the various DTV dictates, I called the FCC in DC and spoke to a nice man who navigated me through their complaint process. I filed an official complaint against the station for depriving OTA viewers of the same quality signal they are providing cable. But given the apparent cavalier arrogance they display about programming and the public interest, this will likely end up being a quixotic enterprise.

Do like I've done. I told our local PBS station to remove me from their list of contributing members. They have totally messed up my programmed recordings; they have removed (4 months early) National PBS; they have shifted and changed programming on Create; they have added PBS World which I have absolutely no interest in. They are getting no further support from me.

When I suggested hitting them where it hurts on here the other day, I was bashed and so I backed off. Obviously I am not the only person disappointed in the recent changes for the worse. Watch a few minutes of House on FOX 11.1, then switch to the Newshour. If those are both 720p, I will eat my combiner. That is upconverted 480 which makes it not only a giant step backwards, but a big lie from your state government university.
And yes the channel ID and show lineups are completely fouled up. And their solution is to "do a new scan" like we have nothing else to do? Not just the scan itself but cleaning up all the unwanted garbage after a fresh re-scan is time consuming.

I have DirecTV and an HR20-100 DVR. For several months I have been getting 27-1 (from Tumamoc) on my rooftop antenna. It appears in my DirecTV channel list and in the DirecTV guide along with the satellite channels and the rest of the Tucson OTA channels from Mt. Bigelow.

KUAS is now apparently broadcasting on 27-2 and 27-3 as well. 27-1 and 27-2 now appear in my channel list and guide, but 27-3 does not appear. When I try to manually select 27-3, I get "Channel not Received" (...NOT "Searching for Satellite").

This seems strange to me, since I can get 27-3 without difficulty on my computer using a small indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).

Does DirecTV depend on getting channel and guide information from KUAS? If so, what does KUAS need to do to solve this problem?

Is this a temporary sub-channel arrangement, or will it be continued indefinitely?

Does 27-1 now duplicate 6-1 in its programming? Is either (or both) now broadcasting in high-definition? (It doesn't look like it.)

Is this a temporary sub-channel arrangement, or will it be continued indefinitely?

Does 27-1 now duplicate 6-1 in its programming? Is either (or both) now broadcasting in high-definition? (It doesn't look like it.)

It's permanent.

6-1 and 27-1 are now identical. It is HD, but 720p @ 11mbit now. I agree it looks bad-- but part of that is the feed from PBS-- there's some sort of blur thing going on. Locally originated content (right now just Arizona Illustrated) looks pretty OK.

I have no idea what's up with direcTV-- we've fed our new lineup to the listing services, and my Tivo just got the new data so I don't think it's us.

Thanks for the clarifications, Qwijib0.

As you suggest, I have contacted DirecTV, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for a reply from them.

Perhaps some prodding from KUASDT might help too.

"there's some sort of blur thing going on" "part of that is the feed" "pretty OK"

Is that engineering talk or is that some sort of blur thing about the whole blur thing?
The show about lincoln highway looked much better than most other of the new breed of (not-HD) HD last night I must admit. But the annoying crawl promos at the bottom are thankfullly spilling way off my screen so I don't have to read them. For the record, nobody else's annoying crawls at the bottom of the screen be they 480 or 720 or 1080 are spilling off my screen. Only 27.1 and 6.1 are failing to take overscan into account.

At least now we have a number: 11 mb. And it only took two weeks and a dozen complaints on here to get that information. What is the exact number of mb sent to the paying cable subscribers? How many mbs are we OTA people being deprived of exactly? I require that information to add to my existing FCC complaint file.
If I recall correctly, the analog video bandwidth for NTSC is 4.2 mhz. So how does 11 mb in DTV convert to equivalent analog image quality of 4.2 mhz? Would that be two and a half times better? Most of the new stuff is only about that better than the old on a good night when it should be more like six times better by the numbers.

Digital TV includes HDTV as a subset and the FCC has not mandated HDTV signals be broadcast, it only requires digital TV broadcasts.

1080i and 720p are both one of the HDTV standards. In fact both KGUN-DT - 9.1 and KMSB-DT - 11.1 HD channels are broadcast in 720p on the over the air and on the feed they send to the cable people. Unless someone is told which is being broadcast most people have no idea.

Over the last few years most of the shows on 27.1 were not actually shot in HD but were SD widescreen and most people never knew it. Unless the show was actually listed as HD it was SD widescreen (Standard DVD Quality).

Quote from HDTV For Dummies:

"HDTV standards
You don't find a single "HDTV" standard out there. Instead, ATSC contains many different TV standards (with different resolutions, aspect ratios, and scan types) - 18, in fact. Some of these standards are truly HDTV; most aren't. In the real world, you deal with four standards when you try to watch TV content on your HDTV. The two primary HDTV standards are these:

720p: This standard provides 720 lines of resolution with progressive scan (hence the p). By comparison, NTSC has less than 480 lines of resolution. 720p uses a 16:9, a widescreen, aspect ratio.
1080i: This variant (the highest resolution within the ATSC standard) uses interlaced scanning but provides 1080 lines of resolution. 1080i is also widescreen, with a 16:9 aspect ratio.
Compatible DTV standards
720p and 1080i are the two HDTV standards, but you may also find some digital TV material broadcast at lower resolutions that don't quite make the grade as HDTV:

480p (EDTV): This enhanced-definition TV standard provides higher-than-NTSC resolution, with progressive scan (NTSC is interlaced). EDTV can be (and often is) 16:9 widescreen, but it's not required to be widescreen.
480i (SDTV): This standard is interlaced, non-widescreen (4:3), standard-definition TV, equivalent to NTSC analog broadcasts. "

You can complain to the FCC till you're blue in the face, but you're never going to win anything. As RJRSW mentions, there's no mandate for HD, and there certainly isn't one that says stations must provide picture-perfect HD to all viewers at all times. Yes, those of us who want picture-perfect HD hate multicasting, but for every one of us, there are 10 others who will be watching using CECBs on analog SDTVs who will appreciate getting a couple more choices of what to watch.

Where are your complaints to the FCC about KOLD, who are abusing the picture even worse than KUAS/KUAT and don't even give cable viewers the option of seeing something better?

As I expected, DirecTV's response to the 27-3 question was "try re-scanning your off air local channels into your DIRECTV receiver's guide."

Needless to say, I have done this several times and still don't see 27-3.

Are any of you with DirecTV HR20 DVR's able to receive 27-3?

First of all, I am not a "dummy" and do not need a lecture about HD mandates or definitions. I get it and have gotten it from the get go. Revisionist history to justify capitalist greed is not appropriate in the current economic meltdown.
Secondly, I have complained to KOLD and to the FCC and to CBS affiliate relations about them and some of their other practices. Yet they do manage to hurl out a rather clear 1080 picture more of the time than others do even though there were some dark days in the beginning. If it turns out they too are guilty of this double standard, there will be another FCC complaint from me.
Thirdly, I question whether there is in fact a majority of SD watchers clamoring for quantity over quality. The people I talk to about TV fall into two camps: those who are completely ignorant about SD CECBs and their impact on their analog TV world versus those who have a new widescreen large display and expect to see significantly better images for their money. I know nobody in this "wonderland" described above who lavish hours selecting from the smorgasbord of SD on a CECB hooked through channel 3 on a 20 year old portable 19" analog CRT. Do such people exist? Do they really send money to PBS? If so, Barnum is not spinning in his grave but chuckling to himself.
Fourth, it is too bad that CW58 has cut their HD back to SD. But what do we expect from the station that shuttles all calls about HD and digital to their "comment box" black hole of dead letter voice mail?
My next idea is to watch long enough to make a list of the local advertisers on the worst offenders and contact them to ask if they feel they are getting their money's worth from a station that does not care how bad its picture is.
This was fun for the first couple of years to see what was out there and how to capture it and enjoy it. Now it is turning into a royal pain in the a**. I turned the TV off tonight and played a vinyl record on my vacuum tube hi fi system and it was a pleasure.

Has anything happened to KGUN's broadcasts on 9.1 (channel 35)? I can't get them at all today, signal strength shows between 8 and 40 (!) on my TiVo which means black screen or at best some pixels here and there. They were usually the absolute strongest signal at 90+ strength. I haven't changed anything in my setup.

9.1 coming in loud and clear (and in HD) at 6:44 pm.

Thanks, your response made me look into my own setup. Even though I have not moved the antenna at all, I decided to move it around and see if that improved reception (I have an indoor antenna). I did, and it did. Very weird! Why would I all of a sudden need to change my antenna in order to get reception as good as before? Problem is that now that I get 9.1 good again, 18.1 isn't coming in as good as before (I record Frasier and Seinfeld from there). I guess I'll fiddle with it some more and see what happens.

Also, for some reason, I've always had bad reception on ABC on Saturday mornings. Any idea why that might be?

Thanks, your response made me look into my own setup. Even though I have not moved the antenna at all, I decided to move it around and see if that improved reception (I have an indoor antenna). I did, and it did. Very weird! Why would I all of a sudden need to change my antenna in order to get reception as good as before? Problem is that now that I get 9.1 good again, 18.1 isn't coming in as good as before (I record Frasier and Seinfeld from there). I guess I'll fiddle with it some more and see what happens.

Also, for some reason, I've always had bad reception on ABC on Saturday mornings. Any idea why that might be?

Your problems could be caused by something changing outside your house that would block or cause a reflected signal. This could be something you or one of your neighbors is doing and large vehicles parked in a different location could cause you a problem and is more of a problem with a indoor antenna.

Your problems could be caused by something changing outside your house that would block or cause a reflected signal. This could be something you or one of your neighbors is doing and large vehicles parked in a different location could cause you a problem and is more of a problem with a indoor antenna.

That's certainly possible.

I'm looking to get a new multi-directional antenna in order to receive 27.x and 58.x channels. I'm about 15 miles from two of the towers, and 32 miles from the third (where CW is broadcast from).

Another issue, apart from the multiple directions, is KGUNs upcoming change from frequency assignment 35 (uhf) to the new assignment at 9 (vhf). It's really dumb of them to do this IMO, but oh well... so I would need an antenna that can receive VHF as well as UHF. By the way, any idea WHY KGUN is making this move?

AntennaWeb.org informs me I need an antenna of type "yellow": http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/antenna.aspx?color=Yellow

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/GlobalUC/img/ant_diagram_yellow.gif

If anyone has any suggestions for specific models, please let me know.

Multidirectional antennas are rarely a good idea. You tend to get a lot of multipath making all the signals unusable. Your best bet is a high VHF/UHF directional antenna with a rotator. Winegard's HD769 series is a good choice, as is the ChannelMaster 4228HD. Unfortunately there aren't any good, small, inexpensive VHF antennas, which is going to be somewhat amusing come February when all the early adopters with UHF-only antennas lose half their channels when they move back to VHF.

Does anyone know which, if any, of the Tucson digital stations plan to move back to VHF in February (or later)?

Does anyone know which, if any, of the Tucson digital stations plan to move back to VHF in February (or later)?

The only one I have seen listed to do that was KGUN 9

The formatting below is kinda messy, but according to antennaweb.org, only 9 and 46 are returning to their original channel numbers meaning that only channel 9 will be VHF. It would seem to me that the stations should have been transitioning to their new numbers as part of the "Digital Switch" and branding themselves similar to the way Cingular transitioned as the "new AT&T". The worst aspect for Tucson is that we will now have 1 major network affiliate on VHF and every other channel on UHF. I am hopeful that my proximity to the antenna farm will allow me to continue using the antenna I have in my attic.


DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City, State Live
Date Compass
Heading Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow
uhf KOLD-DT 13.1 CBS TUCSON, AZ 358° 21.1 32
* yellow
uhf KTTU-DT 18.1 MNT TUCSON, AZ 358° 21.1 19
* yellow
uhf KVOA-DT 4.1 NBC TUCSON, AZ 358° 21.1 23
* yellow
vhf KGUN-DT 9.1 ABC TUCSON, AZ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 358° 21.0 9
* yellow
uhf KUVE-DT 46.1 UNI GREEN VALLEY, AZ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 358° 21.0 46
* yellow
uhf KMSB-DT 11.1 FOX TUCSON, AZ 358° 21.1 25
* yellow
uhf KGUN-DT 9.1 ABC TUCSON, AZ 358° 21.1 35
* yellow
uhf KUAT-DT 6.1 PBS TUCSON, AZ 358° 21.0 30
* yellow
uhf KUAS-DT 27.1 PBS TUCSON, AZ 286° 15.5 28
* green
uhf KHRR-DT 42.1 TEL TUCSON, AZ 284° 22.4 42
* green
uhf KUVE-DT 46.1 UNI GREEN VALLEY, AZ 358° 21.0 47

Wow! Thanks for that quick and detailed reply.

Multidirectional antennas are rarely a good idea. You tend to get a lot of multipath making all the signals unusable. Your best bet is a high VHF/UHF directional antenna with a rotator. Winegard's HD769 series is a good choice, as is the ChannelMaster 4228HD.

Thanks for the suggestions, however since I rarely if ever watch live TV but instead record it on my TiVo, a rotating antenna doesn't seem to be very useful to me. Is multipath interference unavoidable with a multi-directional antenna?

Thanks for the suggestions, however since I rarely if ever watch live TV but instead record it on my TiVo, a rotating antenna doesn't seem to be very useful to me. Is multipath interference unavoidable with a multi-directional antenna?
Yes, it is unavoidable. The same positive aspect of receiving signal from every direction has the consequence of receiving noise from every direction. FWIW, I don't think 27 isn't much of a concern since PBS HD is now available from both mountains. What are your directional headings to the main group of towers and to KWBA?

Multidirectional antennas are rarely a good idea. You tend to get a lot of multipath making all the signals unusable. Your best bet is a high VHF/UHF directional antenna with a rotator. Winegard's HD769 series is a good choice, as is the ChannelMaster 4228HD. Unfortunately there aren't any good, small, inexpensive VHF antennas, which is going to be somewhat amusing come February when all the early adopters with UHF-only antennas lose half their channels when they move back to VHF.

Is multipath an issue with digital TV? I doubt it.

Yes, it is unavoidable. The same positive aspect of receiving signal from every direction has the consequence of receiving noise from every direction. FWIW, I don't think 27 isn't much of a concern since PBS HD is now available from both mountains. What are your directional headings to the main group of towers and to KWBA?

PBS Kids has been removed from 6.2 and is only on 27.2, so I no longer receive it, hence I need a new antenna setup or cable, and I'm trying to avoid cable.

4.x,6.x,11.x,13.x,18.x are all compass heading 21°
9.x,46.x are both compass heading 20°

27.x is compass heading 252°

58.x is compass heading 165°


I found this link elsewhere in the forum: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
I have a Philips MANT510 indoor antenna right now which gets the Mt Bigelow stations just fine, but it's highly directional. I was thinking of trying the ChannelMaster DB2 and see if I have any better luck with that... I also saw an "RV style" plate-shaped antenna that seemed interesting.

Is multipath an issue with digital TV? I doubt it.
Multipath is a huge issue with digital TV, except that instead of getting ghosts like you do in analog, you either get bad breakups or no usable signal at all. Newer tuners do a better job at rejecting multipath than the original generation, but I would never consider a multidirectional antenna for DTV.

PBS Kids has been removed from 6.2 and is only on 27.2, so I no longer receive it, hence I need a new antenna setup or cable, and I'm trying to avoid cable.

4.x,6.x,11.x,13.x,18.x are all compass heading 21°
9.x,46.x are both compass heading 20°

27.x is compass heading 252°

58.x is compass heading 165°


I found this link elsewhere in the forum: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
I have a Philips MANT510 indoor antenna right now which gets the Mt Bigelow stations just fine, but it's highly directional. I was thinking of trying the ChannelMaster DB2 and see if I have any better luck with that... I also saw an "RV style" plate-shaped antenna that seemed interesting.
The AntennasDirect DB2 is still somewhat directional and has basically nothing in the way of usable VHF, so I don't think it's going to give you what you're looking for.

Is multipath an issue with digital TV? I doubt it.

It's one of the biggest digital TV reception problems there is with most tuners.

The AntennasDirect DB2 is still somewhat directional and has basically nothing in the way of usable VHF, so I don't think it's going to give you what you're looking for.

I have this antenna and it actually does pick up the VHF signals also

"DB4 HDTV Antenna

New for 2008! New Low-loss Design.

The DB4 has become our most popular model because it is simply the best Mid Range HDTV antenna on the market. With an approximate 13.7 dB gain, it is one of the strongest multi-directional antennas available and performs consistently across the entire UHF spectrum. It even works well in areas where HD transmitters are in multiple directions."

http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html

I have this antenna and it actually does pick up the VHF signals also

"DB4 HDTV Antenna

New for 2008! New Low-loss Design.

The DB4 has become our most popular model because it is simply the best Mid Range HDTV antenna on the market. With an approximate 13.7 dB gain, it is one of the strongest multi-directional antennas available and performs consistently across the entire UHF spectrum. It even works well in areas where HD transmitters are in multiple directions."

http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html

Are you able to pick up 27.x, 58.x and 6.x with this antenna? I'm located at Speedway/Wilmot area.

Are you using it outdoors or indoors? Apart from the size and the fact that it's butt ugly, I would love to keep the antenna indoors... might try and build some decent looking enclosure for it if it works indoors.

When they say multidirectional, they just mean it has a wide beamwidth, not that it will pick up stations from all around (i.e. omnidirectional). You can see the pattern here (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/DB4.html). If you get one and point it at any of the 3 sites, you're not really going to get much from the others. Any VHF reception is more of a side effect than an intentional part of the design, so I definitely wouldn't count on it for solid reception of KGUN come February. You might get lucky, but $70 is more than I would want to spend on random luck.

Are you able to pick up 27.x, 58.x and 6.x with this antenna? I'm located at Speedway/Wilmot area.

Are you using it outdoors or indoors? Apart from the size and the fact that it's butt ugly, I would love to keep the antenna indoors... might try and build some decent looking enclosure for it if it works indoors.

I'm using it outdoors and it really is not a problem because it is not that large or very easy to see when mounted. In fact it looks better and is less obvious than the normal Yagi or typical UHF/VHF combo antennas.

I'm near Cortaro and Silverbell and I can pick up everything except the Mt. Bigelow site because my area is in the shadow of Mt Lemon. Channel 13's studio is about 1 mile East of me and they cannot even pick up their own signal from Bigelow with their huge antenna equipment. I tried the antenna near the Golf Links and Harrison area at my sons and everything came in fine from all directions.

Thanks, I think I will order a DB4 and try it out. It's $40 on amazon, so not too bad, I bet it will still work better than the one I have. I might even give it a shot at outside mounting.

Another unrelated question: does anyone (and by anyone I mean Qwijib0 :D) know why the widescreen kids shows on 6.1 (and maybe other widescreen material too, I don't know) are all windowboxed instead of full screen 16:9? I know that both Word Girl and Sid the Science Kid are shown like this. Very irritating. :)

Thanks, I think I will order a DB4 and try it out. It's $40 on amazon, so not too bad, I bet it will still work better than the one I have. I might even give it a shot at outside mounting.

Another unrelated question: does anyone (and by anyone I mean Qwijib0 :D) know why the widescreen kids shows on 6.1 (and maybe other widescreen material too, I don't know) are all windowboxed instead of full screen 16:9? I know that both Word Girl and Sid the Science Kid are shown like this. Very irritating. :)

Those are upconvert SD shows that PBS hasn't flagged with an aspect ratio that our equipment can detect. Not all the programming we show is a part of the national HD feed, so we end up upconverting the SD version (which is from an HD source, and thus letterboxed). They are working on flagging content so we can scale it properly, but until then we have to leave the upconverters in the safest mode possible (pillarbox), which works for all content. We are trying to get some mechanism in place to allow the operators to switch modes if they see something is off, but that will likely be for primetime only.

Over the weekend, we tried added in a 30db radioshack preamp to get something at orange grove and oracle. This with a UHF/VHF RS standard issue antenna on a 25 ft mast. And a big fat zero was all we had to show. However, pointed at phx, we did get 3, 5, 10 and 45 through a cheap magnavox CECB. I am thinking of upgrading to a winegard that claims up to 16 db of gain over their "reference dipole" but am reluctant to try and fail. Anybody getting reliable phx in NW tucson with a big-a** winegard or similar dedicated UHF only? My current advice to friends living here is to try for phx and tell the tucson stations to go (blank) themselves if these arrogant managers are going to just write off 15% of the city's population.

Honestly, when I moved to Tucson 4 years ago, I was aware of the situation in Marana because it was important to me. It wasn't the only consideration for me, but it was on the list. As luck would have it, I feel I found one of the best places in Tucson Metro. We live in the South East side of town, my children attend the Vail School District, I live in the city limits of Tucson, so I get better water/sewer/trash rates and it takes less than 15 minutes to get to the mall. The crowning jewel is that I can pull in all local digital stations OTA with an antenna in the attic.

The station managers will not go blank themselves, nor can they move mountains. Sure, they could invest in translators, but there is a cost associated with this and, knowing they are in a "for profit" business, there must be a better return on the money than just to satisfy the scant few who would rather pull in their signal OTA than via cable or satellite.

I am interested in knowing how the Phoenix project goes. It would seem like the best of both worlds to grab Tucson and Phoenix locals. For many, 45 would be worth the effort just to watch the Suns in the forbidden territory. You are talking digital channels that you're pulling in ... right?

Yes I am speaking of digital phx but in fact we could get a locked image on analog 3, 5 and 8 with only intermittent lock on 15. I used the analog 15 image to optimize the aim before I did the digital scan.
The point everyone seems to miss is that broadcasting is being tossed aside and that is not OK. The "scant few" (like we don't amount to anything?) have up to recently been the foundation for an entire industry. Now we are discarded and flushed in the name of capitalism. Pay cable and satellite are leech luxuries; they should not be mandated into necessities by gov't fiat or handed a captive audience by law.
If the gov't wants to just wipe out OTA, they should just do it and get it over with. Instead of telling us the truth, they pretend to jump through all these hoops and make us follow. It is an insult to our intelligence. The public trust over the airwaves is being squandered, ridiculed and flaunted.
Until they pry my antenna from my cold dead hand, I will keep trying to get the free images I and everyone else are entitled to. I repeat the original question for the forum: what model giant UHF dedicated antenna is producing the best digital phx pictures in NW tucson? I want to buy one.

The best UHF antenna is probably the AntennasDirect 91XG. Whether or not it will improve your reception of Phoenix's DTV broadcasts is anyone's guess as reception beyond 70 miles is more art than science.

Did a TVGOS setup again last night on my Pioneer Plasma and the TVGOS information is back on this morning along with the correct time stamp. I guess it helped putting in the complaint with the TV Guide people.

Did a TVGOS setup again last night on my Pioneer Plasma and the TVGOS information is back on this morning

Are you getting TVGOS from Comcast? What channel are you getting it from? I haven't been able find a Comcast channel transmitting TVGOS for weeks. The only channel I can find with TVGOS is 27 OTA analog, which will be a problem come Feb. :(

are you getting tvgos from comcast? What channel are you getting it from? I haven't been able find a comcast channel transmitting tvgos for weeks. The only channel i can find with tvgos is 27 ota analog, which will be a problem come feb. :(

27 ota

27 ota

Thanks RJR but that still doesn't help the Comcast folks. I left another message with the lead tech but no reply and no TVGOS data at all.
:(

Mick

RJR My Comcast TVGOS has been out for a couple of weeks.
What did you do to "setup" your TVGOS after which it worked?
Stressbox

Thanks RJR but that still doesn't help the Comcast folks. I left another message with the lead tech but no reply and no TVGOS data at all.
:(

Mick

Just received this info in a email about 10 minutes ago from the Engineer at Comcast:

"Bob –

Please pass on to anyone you think may want the info. I have the TVGOS guide data back on ch.6 analog for now, but do not have any info on where it will go after February when the DTV transition hits."

Mick - PM me with your email contact info and I will forward the TV Guide On Screen white paper pdf file I just received from Comcast.

RJR My Comcast TVGOS has been out for a couple of weeks.
What did you do to "setup" your TVGOS after which it worked?
Stressbox

Run the TV Guide setup on your set again and then do the following to force the guide information repopulation:

Go to TV Guide.
Go up to the navigation bar.
Arrow left or right, to the SET UP tab.
Arrow down once to highlight CHANGE SYSTEM SETTINGS. (Do not hit enter; only highlight it.)
Enter code number 653274147. You will not see anything happen until you complete the code. Once you complete the code, the unit will perform a power cycle. When this is completed, turn the unit off. The TV Guide should start to repopulate within 24-48 hours.

Just received this info in a email about 10 minutes ago from the Engineer at Comcast:

"Bob –

Please pass on to anyone you think may want the info. I have the TVGOS guide data back on ch.6 analog for now, but do not have any info on where it will go after February when the DTV transition hits."

Bob,
I spoke to Nick at TVGOS, he claims that CBS is indeed the station that will broadcast the VBI data once the transition to digital is complete. The local Comcast folks will be able to re-insert the VBI data on the analog CBS channel for all their basic cable customers. The TVGOS data will also be broadcast on the CBS digital OTA and cable channel.

Mick

Is any DirecTV subscriber in the Tucson area able to receive KUAS sub-channel 27-3 (note that's 27-3!) on any DirecTV receiver or DVR?

I am not able to receive this sub-channel on my HR20-100 despite several re-setups and re-starts. I do receive 27-1 and 27-2 without difficulty, and I get 27-3 on another receiver (not DirecTV).

My Guide and "Channels I receive" still show KUAT 6-4, although I don't believe that sub-channel has been broadcasting for several weeks.

Is any DirecTV subscriber in the Tucson area able to receive KUAS sub-channel 27-3 (note that's 27-3!) on any DirecTV receiver or DVR?

I am not able to receive this sub-channel on my HR20-100 despite several re-setups and re-starts. I do receive 27-1 and 27-2 without difficulty, and I get 27-3 on another receiver (not DirecTV).

My Guide and "Channels I receive" still show KUAT 6-4, although I don't believe that sub-channel has been broadcasting for several weeks.

You'll need to call and complain. I get it on my HR10-250 (because I can scan channels) but the HR20/21/22/23 series all require DirecTV to update their database for us to see the new channel.

I have complained. The DirecTV response (not surprisingly) is "Re-do your antenna setup."

Makes me wish I still had my HR10-250!

I had the same response. It wasn't worth spending another 20 minutes trying to get someone with a brain to understand their own eqipment or the problem I tried to explain to them. Based on the fact that they removed the OTA tuner, I get the feeling they really aren't too interested in supporting OTA.

TVGOS update:

I tried to set it up with both cable and OTA just like when before when I received everything correctly. All the OTA digital channel information that use to be shown as channels 4.1, 6.1, 8.1, 9.1, 11.1, 13.1 and 18.1 are no longer shown in the guide. When I tried the setup with both cable and OTA it was using the OTA analog 27 for the data.

I then tried the OTA only AIR setting in setup but actually it's the Comcast cable connected, not the antenna and then it shows it's using channel 6 for data and the OTA digital HD channels 4.1, 6.1, 8.1, 9.1, 11.1, 13.1 and 18.1 are shown now and it works when I select the channel in the guide it actually goes to the same correct digital cable channel. It also shows all the analog OTA channels also but I turned their display off so all I see are the HD digital channels in the guide. The channels are ok now using this round about way but the guide info has not been populated yet but I just ran the setup late yesterday so it should start to appear in the next couple of days.

I spoke to Nick at TVGOS, he claims that CBS is indeed the station that will broadcast the VBI data once the transition to digital is complete. The local Comcast folks will be able to re-insert the VBI data on the analog CBS channel for all their basic cable customers. The TVGOS data will also be broadcast on the CBS digital OTA and cable channel.

That's good news. I wish they would do this sooner rather than later so I could see if my Sony DVR & TV can get TVGOS from a digital channel.

Please pass on to anyone you think may want the info. I have the TVGOS guide data back on ch.6 analog for now, but do not have any info on where it will go after February when the DTV transition hits."


Thanks RJRSW,
I see TVGOS data on Comcast Channel 6 again!

What's matter with KGUN since lately?... I am tired of calling KGUN to have the CC enabled. "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" is not showing CC on KGUN. I am watching it via OTA.

Last week I dvr'd that show and to find out it wasn't cc'ed but later on in the afternoon, the NASCAR race was showing cc this really piss me off.

and UGH that KWBA 58 is showing SD when the movie are supposed to be HD. ugh... (I know KGUN and KWBA are owned by same company now)

(no, I haven't called KGUN today but I am hoping someone would)

Hey guys! Great info in this thread, I'm a new HDTV buyer and have a question or two I'm sure you guys can help me answer

I bought a 32" HDTV (with a built in ATSC tuner), and the TERK HDTV Indoor Antenna

I live in an apartment complex, and will be setting everything up today, I was wondering exactly how I must set up the antenna and if there are any tips to receiving the channels around Tucson?

If anyone knows what ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox are it'd be great too!

Thanks

Hey guys! Great info in this thread, I'm a new HDTV buyer and have a question or two I'm sure you guys can help me answer

I bought a 32" HDTV (with a built in ATSC tuner), and the TERK HDTV Indoor Antenna

I live in an apartment complex, and will be setting everything up today, I was wondering exactly how I must set up the antenna and if there are any tips to receiving the channels around Tucson?

If anyone knows what ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox are it'd be great too!

Thanks

They are all broadcasting from Mt. Bigelow located just East of Mt. Lemon. Just aim it at them but you will need a clear line of sight to pick them up. For indoors I have had much better luck with the Zenith Silver Sensor then the Terk model. If you are anywhere near the NW area of Tucson you will not have any luck trying to receive OTA digital.

Link to Zenith model:
http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-ZHDTV1-HDTV-UHF-Digital-Antenna/dp/B00006FXR9

Thanks for the reply RJ,

I'm over near Wetmore and 1st, in a pretty busy area (Apartment complex near the Best Buy on Wetmore), do you think I'll have trouble receiving signal? I'm actually going to pick up my TV in 30 minutes from BB, there was a mistake with the order

PS - Thanks for the link to the Zenith, bookmarked it in case I have no luck with the Terk

Has anyone noticed over the last few weeks that during the KVOA News 4 broadcasts there is a slight, high pitched whine in the background, sometimes its more noticable that other times. I haven't noticed it on any other NBC program or any other channel.

I don't watch the local news, but I definitely noticed the whine you're talking about during the NBC shows last Thursday night (The Office, 30 Rock, My Name is Earl, etc.)

Qwijib0, now that DirecTV has finally started their rollout of local PBS HD channels, is there any date for KUAT/KUAS? Has there been any mention of wanting either to place an encoder at the station or to get the direct fiber feed you give to Cox and Comcast instead of taking the OTA broadcast?

Qwijib0, now that DirecTV has finally started their rollout of local PBS HD channels, is there any date for KUAT/KUAS? Has there been any mention of wanting either to place an encoder at the station or to get the direct fiber feed you give to Cox and Comcast instead of taking the OTA broadcast?

The most exact date I have at the moment is 'early 2009'. There is a possibility to get them the same feed given to cable, via P2P wireless-- though it's not a guarantee yet.

Their uplink center is in Cox territory. Why don't they just pay the $22.00/month for basic cable and uplink that source :) (just kidding, by the way...)

Has anyone noticed over the last few weeks that during the KVOA News 4 broadcasts there is a slight, high pitched whine in the background, sometimes its more noticable that other times. I haven't noticed it on any other NBC program or any other channel.

Ahhh! It's driving me nuts!

I've definitely noticed it on Law & Order, SNL, and a few other shows. It's hard to detect a lot of the time, but if there is speech in a higher pitch it sounds like crap.

I think they are downsampling or over-compressing something. KVOA keeps screwing up their DD 5.1 audio in various ways, I think they must sit around devising new ways to mess up the audio streams and see if anyone notices. A few months ago they used to mix everything in an echo sound field or leave the rear channels playing something different than the front ones. Now it's this.

I just wish we could get rid of all local affiliates and get nation wide feeds for OTA channels.

I have only been able to hear it during their newscasts, I seem to notice it more when Tom McNamara is speaking, I was thinking his mic was bad or something, I dont seem to notice it when weather or sports guys are talking, but I could all be imagining it all.

I constantly hear that noise (during the evening news), so I no longer watch it....it was driving me so nuts.

I constantly hear that noise (during the evening news), so I no longer watch it....it was driving me so nuts.

I have been unable to hear any background noise of any kind during the channel 4 HD evening news on my Pioneer plasma. What kind of set do you have? There are some Plasmas that will sometimes have a power supply buzz with certain input signals.

I have been unable to hear any background noise of any kind during the channel 4 HD evening news on my Pioneer plasma. What kind of set do you have? There are some Plasmas that will sometimes have a power supply buzz with certain input signals.
When the weather was warmer, I was watching outside on a 15" analog TV. Every few minutes this buzzing noise would suddenly come on in the background. This is the only channel I've experienced this buzzing noise. I'll try it on a HD TV, and the HD channel.

Does anyone have a listing of local HD channels on Cox cable basic? They seem to have several in the lower 100s as well as SD channels. I've checked their website and can't find any listing.

Dave

drded

I use this site - it updates regularly. Just type in your zip code and halfway down the page will be the digital cable channels broadcast in the clear, about a 1/3 are HD:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels

I have expanded basic and I get all the channels shown on the above page. You say you are running just basic? Let me know what channels you see. I am thinking about going to satellite, but I will need Cox for Internet. I believe they include basic cable with their internet package at no charge. If so I can probably skip the local package from the satellite provider, and get my local HD's for "free" (w/ the internet package).

PBSKids on Cox QAM, the last month or so (since the switch to 480i on that channel), the primary audio channel is audio for the visually impaired. It will describe (in somewhat monotone audio) what action is occurring between the dialogue, when the program has that info. Dragon Tales and Sesame Street, usually. If you switch to the secondary audio channel, then the visually impaired dialogue is gone. I figured someone else here would have noticed and mentioned it already, but I guess not!

buzzystang,

Thanks for the recommendations. This information is for a friend of mine. He just got his first HD TV and has Cox basic. He's seeing several channels in the lower 100s and is having trouble figuring what is what. I'll refer him to the site you suggested.

I have DirecTV so get my locals from them, 4-9-11-13 in HD. Maybe 6 also, don't know, seldom watch PBS. Since living in Tucson since 1982 I've had Jones Intercable (which became Comcast), Cox, Dish and now DirecTV. Everything considered, my best service and service/value has been DirecTV. Only my opinion.

Dave

They are all broadcasting from Mt. Bigelow located just East of Mt. Lemon. Just aim it at them but you will need a clear line of sight to pick them up. ... If you are anywhere near the NW area of Tucson you will not have any luck trying to receive OTA digital.


I live in the far NW area near I10 - I have a Radio Shack 15-1868 Indoor antenna, Venturer (now RCA branded) STB7766G1 and I receive KUAT and KGUN (plus a Spanish channel) OTA. I was assuming that the others are low power or doing on-off digital broadcasting. I hope that this improves after Feb 17th sometime or folks are going to be unhappy and/or Comcast is going to be very happy with new customers.

Why would they choose a broadcast tower site that can't reach a bunch of people?

I live in the far NW area near I10 - I have a Radio Shack 15-1868 Indoor antenna, Venturer (now RCA branded) STB7766G1 and I receive KUAT and KGUN (plus a Spanish channel) OTA. I was assuming that the others are low power or doing on-off digital broadcasting. I hope that this improves after Feb 17th sometime or folks are going to be unhappy and/or Comcast is going to be very happy with new customers.

Why would they choose a broadcast tower site that can't reach a bunch of people?

If the network stations do not convert their current analog repeater towers that currently serve the Northwest areas to digital the people on the Northwest side will be out of luck. The only option they will have is Comcast or Direct TV.

On one of the MANY features that KVOA had on the digital conversion, they mentioned that their converter on Tupamock hill would go digital after the conversion. They have to shut down the analog service first though. I suspect that most of the other stations will have to do the same for competitive reasons.
Jim

KVOA has it look for Josh Benson reports:
People in the Northwest will be especially affected. Currently, many watch analog channel 64 to watch KVOA News 4. The Catalina Mountains block the original analog channel 4 signal, so a device called a translator is used to beam the signal around the mountain (channel 64). The signal has to be broadcast on a different channel because, otherwise, the two signals would interfere with each other in neighborhoods that happen to receive both. But now, changes are coming.

"On February 17th, 2009 we will turn off channel 64. We will turn on a new, digital channel from the same transmission site, Tummamoc Hill, to serve the Northwest at the base of the Catalina Mountains. That will be channel 4," says Dave Kerrigan, operations manager at News 4.

So Northwest Tucson has nothing to fear, KVOA will still be here. KVOA operations manager Dave Kerrigan says channel 64 is being taken away for public safety use.

"It's somewhat confusing, but we have to turn off the analog channel 4 on Mount Bigelow before we can turn on the digital channel 4 on Tummamoc Hill," says Kerrigan. That day won't come until Febuary 17th, when they turn off the analog signal.

KVOA does have a permit for their translator to go digital on channel 4. Good luck receiving that.

- Trip

Yes, channel 4 is one of the worst possible choices for a digital translator. The only worse channels would be 2, 3, and 6. My guess is they'll figure it out after a month of constant complaints and file a request to move to a different channel.

Hi. Glad I found this forum. I live ~2miles west of silverbell off of camino del cerro/tortolita. I decided to go low tech, dumped all my sat tv stuff. However I do have a newly acquired converter box and an old RCA 'rotary powered' indoor (UHF/VHF ) antenna attached to an SD set.



My experiences.

1. I was amazed at the quality of the channels I did get. Even after 11 years of DISH network, the clarity seemed better.
2. I can get, on a really good day, 11 channels!

These are 6.1, 6.2. 6.3, 27.1, 27.2, 7.3, 9.1 and 40.1.
These are always strong an on all the time.
On other days , I get 18.1 which comes in pretty strong but seems to disappear at times altogether.
11.1 I get and it is weaker, and also disappears a lot.
4.1 is rarely found and is weak.

My questions are:
1. Is it likely that some stations are operating on low power and also switched off at times as they set up transition?
2. Is it possible to check a site somewhere for this info?
3. I have never seen 13 or any of the other higher channels? Are they (13) actually broadcasting DTV right now?
4 Despite what antennaweb tells me, I seem to have to point my antenna in one spot only. and I mean only ;) to get the extra channels. Also my signal quality for some of the more distant channels is constantly bouncing from 0 to 40 % ..? is this just atmospheric changes over distance? ie this will always be true.. I guess I am confused when I see a signal strength showing 65% yet quality is 0%?


Anyway, right now I am somewhat pleased, as I get a lot of clean clear PBS content which is great. However, I am hoping that the weak signals for 11,18 and the absence of 13 and 4 are temporary?

Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated. thanks Stu
:)

Welcome to the forum!

It's not temporary. I live just down the street from you off Rancheros. I could not get all the channels until I used a UHF preamp for my 8-bay bowtie antenna on the roof. I also have a rotor to fine tune the direction towards Mt. Bigelow. I'm surprised you get what you do get for an indoor antenna, but maybe you are higher on a hill than I am. With all the hills around here, it can vary from house to house.

Note that unless you get above a certain threshold in percentage signal strength, you may see nothing or get constant digital breakup. I do recall that CH 4 DTV is the hardest to get from here. It's funny how I can get all the DTV stations just fine, when I never could get VHF OTA at all. I have no clear view of Mt. Bigelow either.

I live not too far at Camino De Oeste and Ironwood Hills. I can get all the digital channels with my external antenna. I can even get 4, 6, 9, 11 and 13 with rabbit ears but I have to play around with them a lot to get 13. I am also amazed because I never had good reception with analog and I do not have a clear via of Bigelow. I never understood all the whining about DTV because it is so much better for me than analog.

I think all the major networks are on Bigelow so I would think that if you are tuned well you should get all of them.

Does anyone have NBC digital/HD via COX/Comcast or OTA? I didn't check my DVR until almost 10 and found it didn't record anything from 7 - 8 and KVOA is still not tuning in. Calling their news desk isn't reaching anyone, they must all be asleep. Hope they get their **** together in less than two months so they don't have dead air like this after 2/19/09.

Got ahold of KVOA after a couple hundred rings on the news desk number, the engineer said there is ice on the antenna affecting the radiation and they are on the air but apparently nobody or hardly anyone can get the signal. They are usually one of my strongest signals, but KOLD, KGUN, KMSB are all coming in fine and they aren't. I asked the guy what they plan to do come Feb 19 when they are off the air and he kept saying they aren't off the air, a lot of good that does us if we can't get the signal whether it's on or off. He said he thought COX/Comcast had the broadcast as far as he knew, so I'd be interested to see if anyone did have KVOA/NBC tonight on cable just not OTA. Thx!

One thing the recent storm should teach us, none of the 3 majors (KVOA, KGUN, KOLD) were ready for the ice storm that hit the area. Assuming DirecTV was picking them up off the air, each of them was suffering numerous audio break ups and bad pixelation. Come February I can't imagine them being any more ready.

Dave

I am no engineer, but as a customer of the local channels, I must say that their contingency plans are pretty weak. I can't imagine what would happen during a natural disaster! Shouldn't these folks be better prepared?

Since yesterday (12/30) KGUN, KMSB, KOLD, and KUAS (1271) have been very low signal for me. I'm not used to that since I'm at snyder & sabino canyon and can see the antennas from my yard, so I'm used to seeing 100% on everything.

Just wondering if anyone else is having any problems also? Especially KGUN?

KGUN is still breaking up and must still be sending a low signal since they were never a problem for me before THE GREAT ICE STORM OF 2008. KVOA was unreceivable for a few days but seems to be back now, KOLD surprisingly enough seemed to make it through the least affected when they would normally have been out of commission first. I'm not sure what's still wrong with KGUN, but they have been a basket case for months now since they have been trying to upgrade their equipment and apparently having no clue on how to do it.

There's been DTV broadcasts for several years now nationwide and all across the East and Midwest where's there a lot more severe winter weather than we have here. I'm not sure why our local stations seem so unable to get anything to work properly, or maybe they have been unwilling to spend any money until the last minute and we have to pay the price. Only KVOA seems to have invested anything in digital more than the absolute minimum required, having local HD capability and other than the ice storm a pretty reliable DTV broadcast.

No problem here with either KGUN or KVOA, but this is with DTV. Watched them both this evening.

Yeah we are talking about OTA broadcasts. KGUN Is still really bad, but I get an occasional glitch on others and it drives me nuts!! I never had that before. So its the ice-storm crap. Hasn't it been a week now?


I don't think things will get better after the switchover. The local affiliates used to worry about their broadcasting over-the-air but I think today they don't any more. Since they get the same advertising revenue anyways, they will probably make sure to do the MINIMUM possible when it comes to their own broadcast equipment.

Due to stupid laws they are protected against any competition. We have the technology to broadcast the major networks (NBC, CBS, ABC, etc) directly to everyone's TV from 1 spot in the US but because in the olden-days it was limited by signal strength they use laws to hang on to their old business model..

DirecTV even had to add "spot beams" to their satellites to KEEP their feeds from just going all over the US. They had to put blinders on to preserve the stupid-ass way things used to be done.

I guess the last option we have then is to file complaints with the FCC. Hmm... A website that streamlined the process would be helpful.

"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."
I would say most thinking people on this forum are paying attention but figure the outrage is not worth the effort. I know that is my position as the world in general and TV in particular just get worse and worse as gov't and stations become less responsible and less responsive. I just turn the thing off and play a vinyl record on my tube stereo. Maybe a few days later the picture will be back. In the meantime, what has any of us really lost out on?
DirecTVs on screen message is priceless: "We know there is no picture. Don't bother us."

The reason for spotbeams was not to protect the rights of the local broadcasters. It became a necessity to provide all of the "must-carry" channels with the limited bandwidth available. There really is no point in beaming Seattle's locals into Tucson as there is nobody who can legally receive them. It made sense for both Dish and DirecTV to invest in SpotBeam technology.

Love your line re: DirecTV's on screen message, thomash...

I'm personally finding that I no longer have a need for NBC, I use ABC for Lost and Life on Mars, CBS for Two and a Half Men and Big Bang Theory and Fox for 24 and American Idol.

If I lost those shows tomorrow, it would be no sweat off my back. I feel the nets have become obsolete and the Viacom suite of channels isn't too far behind.

Slightly different situation for broadcasting in Tucson than in the Midwest. In the Midwest, the towers on a hill maybe 200' above the surrounding area, with the antenna at maybe 1000' above ground level, maybe 2500' above sea level total. The towers on Mt Bigelow are at 8500' above sea level, or 6100' above the city. Just a slight difference in the amount of work it takes to access things after a snowstorm.

I am 11 miles line-of-sight at Tanque Verde and Conestoga to Bigelow and I have a Wingard pr4400 (UHF) on the roof. Will this be OK for the ABC switch to VHF or do I need a new antenna?

How's your reception of analog 9 now? Even though your antenna is likely to have almost nothing in the way of VHF gain, you're close enough to the towers that you might get away with it. Even if you don't, a pair of rabbit ears and a VHF/UHF combiner also has a good chance of decent reception so long as there's not much multipath.

How's your reception of analog 9 now? Even though your antenna is likely to have almost nothing in the way of VHF gain, you're close enough to the towers that you might get away with it. Even if you don't, a pair of rabbit ears and a VHF/UHF combiner also has a good chance of decent reception so long as there's not much multipath.

Don't know how my analog 9 reception is because my tuner only scans for digital channels. My existing TVs get OTA via a Directv AM-21 in addition to getting it directly from Directv. (for backup during severe rainfade) Am planning on adding another TV to the house for network only.

Try plugging your antenna directly in to one of your TVs and use its analog tuner to check. Doesn't really matter which TV and you don't need to do a channel scan since you're just trying to get a basic idea of how good/bad the reception is now. If you get a clean or slightly snowy picture, you shouldn't have any trouble come February. If it's all snow or has lots of ghosting, you're probably going to need to either add a dedicated antenna for VHF or replace your existing antenna with a combo unit.

Anyone with Cox QAM catch any Phoenix stations?

I got home from vacation yesterday and decided to rescan my TV. It's been about 5 months. The important channels are still the same-- (KMSB-HD on 76.2, KVOA-HD on 105.2, KGUN-HD on 106.2, etc...) but I noticed that I also am receiving Phoenix's KSAZ-HD (Fox 10) on 108.2. It's the only Phoenix station AFAIK..

Well, after all that complaining I think my problems are my equipment. I've had a terk TV-42 powered by a sat reciever for 3 years, and for all the mt lemmon channels I've always had 95%+ signal strength.. Now they are all cutting out to some degree, KGUN is non existant.. KVOA is the best and still 75% at best.

I've checked my inside cabling but it dosen't seem to be it.. so I have to assume the antenna is broken somehow (it happened around the time). I haven't been able to get to the roof in the last few days to see if anything changed up there. Anyways, it sounds like my reception problems are my own this time!

I have a feeling that KGUN is not going to change to VHF at all because I learned that KGUN has added another sub channel 9.2 it is a mexicanal network and they are on UHF...

Did KGUN ever TELL you to be sure to avoid UHF antenna because they are going to switch to VHF?

I have not heard or read anything from KGUN hmmm...
(please don't tell me you saw their filing or application to use VHF after Feb 2009) WE should have heard from those news anchors telling us that analog to digital switch is going to happen on Feb 17, 2009 and at the same time telling us to make sure our antenna has vhf capability.

if there is, point me there! it has to be on KGUN! if not ppbbbhhttt...
http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=8566718
http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=8997554

Carey P. time to update your first post on first page because KGUN has added another one... as well as PBS has made changes...

check those links at bottom of your first post PLUS
this link too;
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=83 (click expand all) to see all of channel nbr. and call signs

I have a feeling that KGUN is not going to change to VHF at all because I learned that KGUN has added another sub channel 9.2 it is a mexicanal network and they are on UHF...

Did KGUN ever TELL you to be sure to avoid UHF antenna because they are going to switch to VHF?

I have not heard or read anything from KGUN hmmm...
(please don't tell me you saw their filing or application to use VHF after Feb 2009) WE should have heard from those news anchors telling us that analog to digital switch is going to happen on Feb 17, 2009 and at the same time telling us to make sure our antenna has vhf capability.

if there is, point me there! it has to be on KGUN! if not ppbbbhhttt...
http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=8566718
http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=8997554

Disappointing that they'll use the bandwidth this way. I was hoping that, if somebody was going to steal bandwidth, it would be an RTN affiliate on Channel 18.

Just because it's not on KGUN's site doesn't make the switch back to VHF untrue. There are FCC databases that show this change is eminent. I just hope that I can get their signal after the switch.

I have a feeling that KGUN is not going to change to VHF at all because I learned that KGUN has added another sub channel 9.2 it is a mexicanal network and they are on UHF...

Carey P. time to update your first post on first page because KGUN has added another one... as well as PBS has made changes...

check those links at bottom of your first post PLUS
this link too;
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=83 (click expand all) to see all of channel nbr. and call signs

I'm thoroughly amused that you believe the part of my site with the subchannel listings, but not the part where it says KGUN will be moving to channel 9. ;)

- Trip

Disappointing that they'll use the bandwidth this way. I was hoping that, if somebody was going to steal bandwidth, it would be an RTN affiliate on Channel 18.

Just because it's not on KGUN's site doesn't make the switch back to VHF untrue. There are FCC databases that show this change is eminent. I just hope that I can get their signal after the switch.
link? show me!

I'm thoroughly amused that you believe the part of my site with the subchannel listings, but not the part where it says KGUN will be moving to channel 9. ;)

- Trip
I did see where it says from 35 -> 9 but it does not say anything like will go from uhf to vhf

Channel 9 is a VHF channel, by definition.

- Trip

http://www.cavellmertz.com/uploads/N_204_fcc-07-138a1.pdf

Page 112.

http://www.cavellmertz.com/uploads/N_204_fcc-07-138a1.pdf

Page 112.
at top it says;
STATIONS IN BORDER ZONES THAT MUST FILE POST-TRANSITION
APPLICATIONS

So did they file at all? and what's more this pdf is from 2 yrs ago..

what about current and definite plan of action by KGUN? I haven't heard any just speculation. *shrug and sigh*

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1276556&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=36918

Plan of action is at the bottom of the filing. Straight from KGUN.

- Trip

at top it says;
STATIONS IN BORDER ZONES THAT MUST FILE POST-TRANSITION
APPLICATIONS

So did they file at all? and what's more this pdf is from 2 yrs ago..

what about current and definite plan of action by KGUN? I haven't heard any just speculation. *shrug and sigh*

It was found with a quick google search. Thanks Trip for giving a link to "the" document. I shouldn't have entertained Boult with anything more than "time will tell"....

Hello,
Currently I use a Hauppauge TV Tuner card in my computer and I subscribe to Comcast Cable. I receive the basic analog and digital channels. Does anyone know if I were to upgrade the cable service to digital, if the tuner would tune in the additional digital channels? The tuner shows quite a few locked digital channels right now. I do not have an actual television so getting a digital set top box is not an option.

Thanks,

Hello,
Currently I use a Hauppauge TV Tuner card in my computer and I subscribe to Comcast Cable. I receive the basic analog and digital channels. Does anyone know if I were to upgrade the cable service to digital, if the tuner would tune in the additional digital channels? The tuner shows quite a few locked digital channels right now. I do not have an actual television so getting a digital set top box is not an option.

Thanks,

It would not make a difference if you subscribe to any digital tier. You would have to have a QAM capable HD tuner card and then you would be able to get all of the unscrambled HD channels even if you have just the basic minimum package.

It would not make a difference if you subscribe to any digital tier. You would have to have a QAM capable HD tuner card and then you would be able to get all of the unscrambled HD channels even if you have just the basic minimum package.
Thanks, I do have a QAM tuner card. I do currently get all the unscrambled HD channels: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS..etc... I was wondering if I were to subscribe to the digital tier if they would unscramble channels like CNN digital, Discover HD and so on and if my QAM tuner would receive them?

Thanks,

Nope. just the ones you already get.

Hello!

If this has been posted before, my apologies. It's hard to sift through a large thread, but...

I subscribe to Comcast, live on River and La Canada and I have an HDTV.

When I first moved in, I could pick up most if not all DTV signals fine from the major stations.

For awhile, they were coming in on 4.1 and 9.1, but then I could only see them on 89.something.

Lately, I cannot receive KVOA and KGUN's digital signals. The closest I can get is 98.11 for KVOA however anything that broadcasts in widescreen (like Leno, or The Office) are letterboxed, not stretched like they used to be.

I havent seen KGUN digitals in months.

Any idea what may be up? I don't use any boxes or equip from Comcast.

Nope. just the ones you already get.

Correct. Because the other digital channels are encrypted. Subscribing to digital cable doesn't change the signals on the cable, they remain encrypted, it just gets you a cable box which is able to decrypt the channels that you are subscribed to. There is no way to get anything other than the local channels via a clear QAM tuner.

Thanks, I do have a QAM tuner card. I do currently get all the unscrambled HD channels: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS..etc... I was wondering if I were to subscribe to the digital tier if they would unscramble channels like CNN digital, Discover HD and so on and if my QAM tuner would receive them?

Your QAM tuner will only receive unencrypted digital channels (what you're getting now). The devices that can receive encrypted channels are the "cable box" and the CableCard (I assume your card doesn't have a Cablecard slot). You would need one of these AND a subscription to a digital tier. Comcast remotely programs these devices to give you only the channels you buy.

live on River and La Canada and I have an HDTV.
When I first moved in, I could pick up most if not all DTV signals fine from the major stations. For awhile, they were coming in on 4.1 and 9.1, but then I could only see them on 89.something. Lately, I cannot receive KVOA and KGUN's digital signals. The closest I can get is 98.11 for KVOA however anything that broadcasts in widescreen (like Leno, or The Office) are letterboxed, not stretched like they used to be. I havent seen KGUN digitals in months. Any idea what may be up? I don't use any boxes or equip from Comcast.

You should still be able to receive the Local HD channels. I'm pretty sure that Comcast is required by the FCC to keep them in the "clear". If you can get 98.11 (digital - std def) then we can assume your QAM tuner is working. Comcast recently changed some channel mappings that probably caused your problem.

A fresh "channel scan" on your TV should find the clear digitals again.

I just checked and here's some clear digitals I see coming in from Comcast right now.

Physical CH, Virtual Ch, STD Def version
88.6 KMSB, 11.1, 98.18
87.1 KTTU, 18.1, 98.10
88.3 KOLD, 13.1, 98.14
89.3 KGUN, 9.2, 98.16
89.4 KVOA, 4.1, 98.11
121.4 WB, --, 98.15
121.5 LATV, 8.2, --
87.2 PBSHD, 6.1, 98.13?
121.3 PBSV
121.1 PBSCREATE
121.2 PBSKIDS

Physical CH, Virtual Ch, STD Def version
88.6 KMSB, 11.1, 98.18
87.1 KTTU, 18.1, 98.10
88.3 KOLD, 13.1, 98.14
89.3 KGUN, 9.2, 98.16
89.4 KVOA, 4.1, 98.11
121.4 WB, --, 98.15
121.5 LATV, 8.2, --
87.2 PBSHD, 6.1, 98.13?
121.3 PBSV
121.1 PBSCREATE
121.2 PBSKIDS

Thanks mradler! I did a fresh channel scan on Sunday and got the same results that I've been dealing with. I have 11.1, 18.1, 13.1, 13.2, 8.2, 6.1, and all the extra PBS channels.

I do have KVOA STD Def on 98.11 but that's not as good as when I received it on 89.4/4.1

I'm just confused as to how suddenly my TV can tune into other DTV signals but not KVOA or KGUN

sgk4, I checked my TV's diag screen to see if there are any differences between the ones you're getting (11.1,13.1) and the ones you're not (4.1,9.1) and everything thing is the same except both of the ones you're not getting are on physical channel 89. Hmm... Maybe your TV has 89 blocked, hidden or something? What happens when you manually tune to either 4.1 or 89.4?

sgk4, Oh Yeah... another thing I just thought of:
The Tucson Comcast Digital Starter package is now the same price as standard cable (regular price = $57.69). If your TV has a CableCard slot then you can get the 1st CableCard at no additonal fee. An HD converter box is $8/mo. I think they may even have a deal right now for a free HD converter box or an HD DVR for only $5/mo for the first year.

I just switched to "Digital starter" and they're only charging $33/mo for the first 6 months. I use the CableCard so there's no charge for that. At one point, they tried to add an $8/mo "HD fee" and I said "they didn't tell me that when I ordered it" so they removed it.

The best part is... Now I get all of the other non-premium HD channels like TBSHD, ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, FSAHD, TNTHD, AMCHD, VersusHD, APHD, FXHD, USAHD, HistoryHD, DiscoveryHD etc... etc... and another nice surprise was that a lot of these stations have different programing on thier HD version so it's like have more channels too.

sWhat happens when you manually tune to either 4.1 or 89.4?

When I manually go to 4.1 and 89.4 I just get a blank screen like there is no signal.

BTW - I dont get the Channel 58 digital channels either. I used to!

Weird!

EDIT: Forgot to mention that for awhile, I received 4.1, then I did a new channel search and found it on 89.4

After awhile (a few months) of watching it on 89.4 it reassigned itself to 4.1 and then it went away completely without any input from me.

I don't know how it works but I have noticed that different TVs react differently to the physical/virtual channel number thing. I had one TV that would not tune to the physical channels (only the virtual) which was a problem when WB 58's virtual channel was 0.0 on comcast. Fortunately, my trusty Sony TV has always been able to tune to either, which is nice when Comcast changes the virtual number. I haven't seen the physical numbers change in years (88.x,89.x,121.x etc..). I don't know what else to tell you other than it's an issue with your TV which probably is affected when Comcast changes things. Or... get a Cablecard/Cable box and enjoy.

Problem solved! I realized that I forgot to unhook my VCR long ago - all this time cable has been routed through the unit and then into my TV. I plugged the TV directly into the wall and everything is back to normal!

Gotta love those user errors.... "Technical Error, delete user? Y/Y"

thanks for your help and patience.

We live in NW Tucson near the intersection of Ina and Cortaro. The only digital channels we can get are 27.1, 27.2, 27.3, and 40.1. Our antenna can not "see" the transmitters on Mount Bigelow. We currently get analog channels 4 on 64, 9 on 16, and 13 on 13. The channel 64 and 16 transmitters seem to be near Tummamoc Hill and the channel 13 transmitter seems to be in the Tucson Mountains. It appears that we will not have access to NBC, ABC, and CBS after the cutover because their digital transmitters can not be seen from NW Tucson. Is this true? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment you can share.

KVOA will broadcast their digital signal on channel 4 from Tumamoc following the transition. http://www.kvoa.com/global/story.asp?S=9531500

I don't know anything about the other two.

Anyone with Cox QAM catch any Phoenix stations?

I got home from vacation yesterday and decided to rescan my TV. It's been about 5 months. The important channels are still the same-- (KMSB-HD on 76.2, KVOA-HD on 105.2, KGUN-HD on 106.2, etc...) but I noticed that I also am receiving Phoenix's KSAZ-HD (Fox 10) on 108.2. It's the only Phoenix station AFAIK..

Yep, that one starting coming in a couple of weeks ago (Cox QAM also). Nothing else so far. Well, there are occasionally some blips going on right now in the 91.10x's (http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=85629)that are um...well not so safe for the kids. Oops.

That's kind of odd. The adult VOD content was always encrypted in Phoenix, but apparently someone forgot to flip the switch for Tucson. Guess it's up to each viewer to decide if they want to enjoy it or complain to Cox to get them to fix the encryption.

sgk4, Oh Yeah... another thing I just thought of:
The Tucson Comcast Digital Starter package is now the same price as standard cable (regular price = $57.69). If your TV has a CableCard slot then you can get the 1st CableCard at no additonal fee. An HD converter box is $8/mo. I think they may even have a deal right now for a free HD converter box or an HD DVR for only $5/mo for the first year.

I just switched to "Digital starter" and they're only charging $33/mo for the first 6 months. I use the CableCard so there's no charge for that. At one point, they tried to add an $8/mo "HD fee" and I said "they didn't tell me that when I ordered it" so they removed it.

The best part is... Now I get all of the other non-premium HD channels like TBSHD, ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, FSAHD, TNTHD, AMCHD, VersusHD, APHD, FXHD, USAHD, HistoryHD, DiscoveryHD etc... etc... and another nice surprise was that a lot of these stations have different programing on thier HD version so it's like have more channels too.


That is sweet! I wish Cox would do something like that. I don't have a CableCard capable HDTV, but I would like to think that someday (yeah, maybe like ten years from now) they'll have a 'basic' digital subscription package that lets you get HD channels like ESPN, FX, USA, TBS, Spike, Discovery, History, etc. in the clear without renting an STB/DVR.

Everytime I run up the numbers I get discouraged. Cox says digital cable is "only" $7.00 more a month than expanded. Once you add in the gateway fee, the STB rental fee, the DVR fee and the HD STB/DVR upgrade fees, it costs significantly more than expanded. All I really want is ESPN and FSA and maybe Spike in HD.

I don't need 100 "music" channels, the three dozen or so niche SD digital channels, or "on demand" features, just a handful of "basic" HD channels. Comcast seems to have figured that out for their customers. Too bad I don't get Comcast where I live...

I am on Comcast digital cable. The last few Arizona basketball home games have only been broadcast by FSN in SD. Not only have they been SD, they've been very poor quality SD with very heavy compression and lots of nasty artifacts. The last game, I actually switched over to the analog feed tuned via my VCR because it looked better than the digital feed. I think this is unacceptable for a subscription sports channel. SD can look much better than that.

Has anyone else noticed these quality issues? Anyone know who we can complain to? I can't find any contact info for Fox Sports.

That is sweet! I wish Cox would do something like that. I don't have a CableCard capable HDTV, but I would like to think that someday (yeah, maybe like ten years from now) they'll have a 'basic' digital subscription package that lets you get HD channels like ESPN, FX, USA, TBS, Spike, Discovery, History, etc. in the clear without renting an STB/DVR.

Everytime I run up the numbers I get discouraged. Cox says digital cable is "only" $7.00 more a month than expanded. Once you add in the gateway fee, the STB rental fee, the DVR fee and the HD STB/DVR upgrade fees, it costs significantly more than expanded. All I really want is ESPN and FSA and maybe Spike in HD.

I don't need 100 "music" channels, the three dozen or so niche SD digital channels, or "on demand" features, just a handful of "basic" HD channels. Comcast seems to have figured that out for their customers. Too bad I don't get Comcast where I live...
Cox will usually give pretty good discounts if you've been a long-time customer with bundled services. I was able to upgrade my parents to HD service and it ended up costing like $15/mo less because they gave a 25% discount on everything for 6 months. If you fall into the category of a long-time customer with a good payment history, give sales a call and ask to speak with someone in "customer loyalty". Tell that rep that you want to upgrade, but are considering DirecTV because the costs of Cox are too high, and ask what sort of discounts they can give you.

I am on Comcast digital cable. The last few Arizona basketball home games have only been broadcast by FSN in SD. Not only have they been SD, they've been very poor quality SD with very heavy compression and lots of nasty artifacts.
Has anyone else noticed these quality issues? Anyone know who we can complain to? I can't find any contact info for Fox Sports.

I noticed that too and, yes, it's awful. I don't know who to complain to either. Another annoying thing about FSN is that I can't tell from my guide if the game is going to be broadcast in HD or not so I don't know which channel to record. I hope they fix that soon.

Ever since I got my HDTV in 2006, I've come to concusion that, wth SD anyway, it's tough to beat a quality analog signal on a quality CRT... but watching a game in HD on a DTV is way better than anything else.

I've also noticed TBSHD is breaking up a lot lately on Comcast digital. Anyone else notice that?

Does anyone else ever have any Audio/Lip synch issues on KGUN 9 on Cox?

Sometimes the audio is really off in regards to the picture.

Sometimes not so bad...

I have Cox and am looking at channel 709. Haven't looked at OTA, (Need to get antenna hooked back up.)

I recently scanned my channels again (Comcast) with my JVC QAM tuner and I cannot receive KWBA in HD anywhere. I get an SD signal at 98-6 but nothing at 121-4 as some others have reported. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mick

I recently scanned my channels again (Comcast) with my JVC QAM tuner and I cannot receive KWBA in HD anywhere. I get an SD signal at 98-6 but nothing at 121-4 as some others have reported. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mick

It shows up for me at 777 mHz...I don't think it has changed in the last several months. The lesser 3 other PBS digital channels are also at 777 as well...

BB

It shows up for me at 777 mHz...I don't think it has changed in the last several months. The lesser 3 other PBS digital channels are also at 777 as well...

BB

Thanks Bob but 777 doesn't mean anything to my QAM tuner. :)

Mick

777 is channel 121.

Anybody else using OTA having trouble getting KGUN or any of the other networks since there are clouds in the sky? I think everything is working except KGUN who is the latest red-headed step child of the big 3 with KOLD not pulling up the rear anymore. I wonder if they had another ice storm on the mountain? Less than a month until 2/19/09 isn't it great how well our local affiliates have their DTV broadcasts working?

Less than a month until 2/19/09 isn't it great how well our local affiliates have their DTV broadcasts working?

If Obama has his way, the analog shutoff will be delayed until June.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/22/digital-tv-transition-postponement-all-but-certain/

If Obama has his way, the analog shutoff will be delayed until June.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/22/digital-tv-transition-postponement-all-but-certain/

Just about a done deal:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012303608.html

I wouldn't quite call it a done deal yet given that the bill isn't even finished, let alone voted on by both houses and signed by the President. Either way, stations are still free to continue with plans to turn off analog, and many undoubtedly will to save on power bills, to not confuse their viewers, or because they already have crews scheduled to go out and work on the transmitters/towers.

A few weeks back there was some discussion on here about KUAT broadcasting upconverted second rate so-called HD on their free air while feeding pristine full 1080 to the paying cable customers. I took issue with that and was shouted down by one of their employees. I did file a complaint with the FCC mostly to just rattle KUAT cage and the outcome was predictable. The FCC told me that no station is requred to broadcast in HD so there is no violation. That they missed the point completely should come as no surprise in light of the ongoing train wreck that is the "DTV Transition." But wait, there might be some cause for optimism! Last night at a famous foothills gallery gala, I approached the host of Arizona Illustrated to offer my opinion of the show's content. He was very gracious even though my opinion was negative, then the conversation turned to HD and digital. He was aghast and disappointed to find out that his own station was not providing the same HD to free antenna viewers that they were to pay cable customers. He stated to me he would speak to the engineers and see if a fair resolution can be implemented. Both he and his wife expressed their assent when I stated it did not seem reasonable to provide multicasting of duplicated children's and spanish low def spread across the five distinct channels when it is claimed to make full HD impossible on the main channel.
I occasionally try to watch a so-called HD show on 6.1 but give up after a few minutes due to the second rate image. Channel 13 manages to send out good 1080 from the network while keeping two side channels sort of on the air; why can't channel 6 manage to do that too?

A couple points here:
- The feed going to cable contains the same amount of upconverted content as the broadcast feed. Content available in HD will be in HD on both; content not available in HD will be upconverted on both.

- The FCC is correct that HD is not required. Stations are required to provide at a minimum a single SD service. They're perfectly within their rights to send out a single, low-bitrate SD channel and sell the rest of their bandwidth to someone else for use with pay services, datacasting, or anything else. They can provide a single SD service, sell the rest of their bandwidth, and provide an HD feed only to cable if they want.

- The SD channels are not duplicates. KUAT from Bigelow has V-Me (Spanish) and Create (arts & crafts), while KUAS from Tumamoc has Kids and World.

- KOLD only has 1 active subchannel, and 1 showing a static slate about The Tube not existing anymore (why it's still there when The Tube has been gone for over a year is anyone's guess). All 4 of the subchannels run on KUAS/KUAT are fairly high motion and can't be starved of bitrate to the same extent as a news/weather channel before they become unwatchably blocky. The 11Mb/s available for the HD program on KUAS/KUAT simply isn't enough to sustain 1080i.

Does anyone else ever have any Audio/Lip synch issues on KGUN 9 on Cox?

Sometimes the audio is really off in regards to the picture.

Sometimes not so bad...

I have Cox and am looking at channel 709. Haven't looked at OTA, (Need to get antenna hooked back up.)

Not KGUN for me, but I do notice it on CBS, especially during NFL. It's not so bad, most of the time usually voice over commentary, you don't see any lips out of synch. (Cox QAM Sahuarita)

PS...Cox isn't pushing PBS World to clear QAM yet. It's been about 2-3 months since it went OTA. (poke poke)

What happened to Fox HD on Comcast? For the last week or more I haven't received anything on 11.1. I haven't done a rescan yet, just because Fox has been the one channel I could count on not moving. Is it somewhere else?:(

I just checked the QAM tuner on my Pioneer set and I'm still receiving Fox on 11.1 on Comcast.

On my JVC DVD recorder with the QAM tuner I had to do a rescan to find Fox HD and it is showing ups on 88.6 with no remap as before to 11.1.

I just checked the QAM tuner on my Pioneer set and I'm still receiving Fox on 11.1 on Comcast.

On my JVC DVD recorder with the QAM tuner I had to do a rescan to find Fox HD and it is showing ups on 88.6 with no remap as before to 11.1.

I just did a rescan on one of my Vizio's and it came up on 88.6. I'll do the other one later. Thanks for the reply.

My El-Cheapo AOC(720P) monitor found both FOX at 88-6 and KWBA at 121-4 but my JVC QAM tuner fails to find either of them. :( I had no problem when they were at 11-1 and 8-1. Wonder when Comcast is going to re-map them correctly?

Mick

I just sent a email to the Head Engineer at Comcast making him aware of the remap info missing on the two channels.

Thanks Bob! Maybe I'll try again to rescan tomorrow.

Mick

What's that email address?

tia,
Ray

I just sent a email to the Head Engineer at Comcast making him aware of the remap info missing on the two channels.

I just did a rescan on one of my Vizio's and it came up on 88.6. I'll do the other one later. Thanks for the reply.

RJ, thanks for the reply and the e-mail to Comcast.
I did a rescan on my 2nd Vizio (42" LCD) today and Fox HD came up on 11.1 and ABC came back to 9.1 from 9.2. I did a rescan on the Vizio (22")that I did last night and it went back to 11.1 & 9.1.
I have Internet and only the very Basic Comcast cable, so getting anyone to admit that I have HD or even get HD and answer questions and fix problems is impossible. You and this site are a life saver!
Thanks!