Thanks for the update, West Avra Wiz.

I was hoping to see the Wildcates in HD. Guess have to wait till the sweet 16 games if they can make it that far.

And now Ladies and Gentlemen, posted for your enjoyment, is the Line-Up for Friday, March 18th:


Game #1 daytime From Oklahoma City - Oklahoma St. vs. SE Louisiana (not in HD)
Game #2 daytime From Nashville - Villanova vs. New Mexico (available in HD)
Game #1 night From Charlotte - Duke vs. Delaware St. tip (not in HD)
Game #2 night From Charlotte - Stanford vs. Mississippi St. (not in HD)

I wont know until Friday what the Line-Up for the weekend is, but when I get it, I'll post it, if anyone is interested.

Hello Everyone!

We have some good news for HD Basketball Fans! We have been allowed to Multi-cast, so we are going to give it a try. Here's the NEW CBS/NCAA Line-up for Thursday and Friday, the 17th and 18th.


Thursday, March 17th

10:45AM: On Channel 13 will be the Oklahoma/Niagara game
10:45AM On Channel 13.1 will be the same game in HD

1:00PM On 13 will be the Washington/Montana game
1:05PM On 13.1 will be the Utah/ UTEP game in HD

5:20PM On 13 will be the Arizona/Utah State game
5:20PM On 13.1 will be the same game, but in SD only
(Sorry, but there are no HD resources in Boise)

7:45PM On 13 will be the Texas Tech/UCLA game
7:45PM On 13.1 will be the same game in HD




Friday, March 18th

10:30AM On 13 will be the Oklahoma State/SE LA game
10:15AM On 13.1 will be the Charlotte/ NC State game in HD

12:45PM On 13 will be the Villanova/New Mexico game
12:45PM On 13.1 will be the same game in HD

5:25PM On 13 will be the Duke/ Delaware game
5:10PM On 13.1 will be the Louisville/LA Lafayette game in HD

7:45PM On 13 will be the Stanford/Mississippi State game
7:30PM On13.1 will be the Georgia Tech/George Washington game in HD

We are trying to get the most games as we can, and except for one exception, we are trying to always provide an HD game when available. For all the people with PSIP Electronic Program Guides, the schedules will be correct. If your receiver uses a service source instead of PSIP, the schedules may be wrong. I will have more information about the weekend games, as soon as I get it.

So, pay no attention to your TV Guides, in regards to the information on 13.1, and tell all your friends what games are where.

Outstanding! Thanks for the heads up.


Chris

Hey West Avra Wiz

The basketball game on now (UTEP-UTAH) is in HD on Comcast ch 182 and in spread SD OTA on 13-1. DId someone forget to throw a switch? Hmmmm.

BTW, that spread-o-vision is awful in general. ESPN used to do that and they stopped. I see KVOA is doing it also but has 4-2 in SD.

Thanks.

KOLD is OK. My last post was my own problem Apparently I have discovered a new little glitch with the USDTV receiver. It was at 1080i. I wanted to see what would happen if I switched it to 720p. This should not matter. Well, at 720P the signal was HD, no spread-o-vision. So I switched it back to 1080i and now that was HD also. In addition, KVOA, 4-1, which I thought had been spread was not. It was SD 4x3 as it should be. In between sometime I also did an unplug reset but that did not fix it, at least by itself.

So, all you out there with USDTV receivers, watch out for this one.

Hey Baba,

Have you had any problems with your USDTV receiver where you get consistent dropouts in the audio using the digital out, but not on the analog out?

Also, have you experienced the system clock losing 1-2 min per day?

I have a friend who has these problems with his. Thanks.

Carey,

I have never used the analog sound outputs of my USDTV, ony digital. I haven't heard any problems recently except occasionally on Fox, 11-1. I think it is the same on Comcast so it is not the receiver.

I didn't even know the receiver had a system time. I looked for it in the menu and I see it is kept by synching to one station's PSIP. Mine was set to KVOA. I also noticed the time was wrong, fast, by about 8 minutes. I switched the sync to KOLD and now it was correct. So, it is possible the problem is with the station. I don't think the receiver keeps its own time.

Thanks! I'll pass along the info. US Digital is having an audio engineer get back to him on the audio problem. May be just his unit.

Is it me or the HD broadcast from CBS? The HD quality is certainly worse than I have seen for a long time. Any one else saw what I saw?

Is it me or the HD broadcast from CBS? The HD quality is certainly worse than I have seen for a long time. Any one else saw what I saw?

Originally posted by dash2004
Is it me or the HD broadcast from CBS? The HD quality is certainly worse than I have seen for a long time. Any one else saw what I saw?

The PQ of the NCAA games has been excellent here -- I especially like the wide angle views that show the entire arena -- the detail is just so crisp! Maybe you could elaborate a bit more on what you think was worse than normal.

Originally posted by phlewt
The PQ of the NCAA games has been excellent here -- I especially like the wide angle views that show the entire arena -- the detail is just so crisp! Maybe you could elaborate a bit more on what you think was worse than normal.

In general, the PQ is not as good as the HD games on ESPN and and TNT-HD. The color is not as vibrant and life like and the picture details are not as crisp epecially in the wide angle view of the arena.

Originally posted by dash2004
In general, the PQ is not as good as the HD games on ESPN and and TNT-HD. The color is not as vibrant and life like and the picture details are not as crisp epecially in the wide angle view of the arena.

I do not have HD cable so I am not able to compare the PQ of the NCAA games to ESPN and TNT. I do think that the PQ I am seeing on these games is better than the PQ on most of the network HD shows. I am clueless as to why the signal would look so different at your location -- after all, this is digital, and should be identical in all locations.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but does anyone in Tucson notice the audio lags behind the video on HDTV as well as DTV broadcasts? I notice it the most on KOLD 13-1 and KMSB 11-1 HDTV broadcasts. I have tried the optical digital output as well as composite output on my Samsung SIR-T351 with the same results. I use component for video(just for info). Thanks for any input.

Wednesday March 23 7:15 pm

Comcast has been off for hours!!!!! I read in the newspaper that they were switching equipment and it was suppose to be shut off during the middle of last night in an area north of River Rd and east of Oracle. It seems that they never got it working again. There are about 6 Comcast trucks near the corner of Snyder and Sabino Canyon Rd.

Does anyone have any information about when Comcast will be working again?

Any info on the NCAA Games we are getting besides the AZ and Washington Pac Ten matchups? I would guess that the multicasting will cease or be blacked out for regional matchups and since all the games are HD from here on.

Okay folks, you asked for it......


Tonights games:

5:10PM Washington Vs Louisville in Analog AND in HD on 13.1
7:57PM Arizona Vs Oklahoma State in Analog AND in HD on 13.1


Tomorrows games:

5:10PM Duke Vs Michigan State in Analog AND in HD on 13.1
7:40PM Kentucky Vs Utah in Analog AND in HD on 13.1

I should know by late tomorrow what the weekend lineup will be. When I get it, I will post them here.

Originally posted by West Avra Wiz
Okay folks, you asked for it......


Tonights games:

5:10PM Washington Vs Louisville in Analog AND in HD on 13.1
7:57PM Arizona Vs Oklahoma State in Analog AND in HD on 13.1


Tomorrows games:

5:10PM Duke Vs Michigan State in Analog AND in HD on 13.1
7:40PM Kentucky Vs Utah in Analog AND in HD on 13.1

I should know by late tomorrow what the weekend lineup will be. When I get it, I will post them here.

Your the man, Thanks...

You are the man Wiz. AZ Red Uni's lookin' good in HD

...And now for your viewing enjoyment, are the games for Saturday.

2:40PM Louisville Vs West Virginia in HD and Analog
5:05PM Arizona Vs Illinois in HD and Analog


I'll post Sunday's games when I get them.

My daughter lives in Tucson and has asked me to install a plasma TV for her. I ordered it and will be visiting her in April with my son to install it before her husband returns from the Middle East (this is a surprise for him). She presently has COX Cable. I've read through a lot of posts on this thread and it appears that COX does not have local HD programming available.

Is that true? If so, does COMCAST or do I need for her to go the DirecTV route?

Thanks for your help and recommendations.

Or the antenna route, which works just fine for me and many others!

Understand the antenna route. I installed an OTA antenna to complement the DirecTV hook-up I got. I was wondering if, indeed COX and COMCAST do not handle local HD. In addition, do you have a recommendation on the OTA antenna? My daughter will be about 20 miles from the 4 major local towers.

I have a spare radio shack double bow-tie but if I have to go bigger, I need some suggestions. Do you folks just get an OTA receiver and cable or do most folks get DirecTV and an OTA.

Thanks

I have a DirecTV receiver (Sony HD300) and a Silver Sensor (indoor) antenna. Works fine for both the DirecTV HD package and for OTA from both Mt. Bigelow and Tumamoc Hill.

I think Cox and Comcast is an either/or depending on where you live, not a user choice (but I could be wrong since I use neither.)

Local channels on Tucson cable:

Originally posted by Carey P
Comcast Local HD
KOLD-DT CBS (182)
KUAS-DT PBS
KMSB-DT FOX (183 - no DD5.1)
KTTU-DT UPN

COX Local HD
KUAS-DT PBS (706)


If only COX is available at your daughter's location, there will be very little local HD available from them at the present time. They do offer a few cable HD sources (Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD, INHD1 & 2, etc.). Comcast offers CBS and FOX (UPN is not currently broadcasting any HD content in Tucson) -- so if she is in the Comcast service area, you could ask her if this would be satisfactory.

If she lives in the northwest parts of Tucson, it may be difficult to pull in most of the stations (located on Mt. Bigelow). I live 25 miles south of Tucson, and 39 miles from Mt. Bigelow (according to antennaweb.org), and I get all the locals just fine OTA. An indoor antenna does fine at my location, but I placed a small Radio Shack outdoor antenna in my attic so I don't have to find a place to set an indoor antenna.

What sort of coverage does http://www.antennaweb.org show for her location?

My daughter's zip code is 85706. I believe she lives very close to the Air Force base. The antenna web site says she is 22.2 miles from the broadcast towers at 18 degrees. I do not know if the web site takes terrain into account in its calculations, however.

Im in The Air Force, and live near Davis-Monthan AFB. I am out on the East side of Tucson on Houghton road. It looks like your doughter is on the West side of the base. I dont believe that you will have any terrain problems out there if you go the OTA route. I have Dish network, and i get all of my locals on an OTA antenna. Antenna just plugs into my Dish HD reciever and works great!

Originally posted by crossbow
My daughter's zip code is 85706. I believe she lives very close to the Air Force base. The antenna web site says she is 22.2 miles from the broadcast towers at 18 degrees. I do not know if the web site takes terrain into account in its calculations, however.

She said she was by the contractors gate. Thanls for the info.

Wow, did KOLD pump up the power or something? I am in 85719 (next to the U of A), and for the last year I have only gotten 6% signal at best from KOLD (Fusion II, DB4). Now, all of a sudden, I am getting around 60%! Still not good enough for smooth viewing, but a big step in the right direction.

lazyn00b

KOLD sure has some lip-sync issues with live broadcasts.

KOLD is always out of lip-sync for me. The only station that has this problem.

Now that KUAT HD (27-1) is back on it is out of sync for me, the only channel I have this problem on.

I'm getting video lag on KUAT 6-1 for the first time that I can recall tonight. I hope they can resolve the problem soon, kinda annoying.

Originally posted by AJStone
I'm getting audio lag on KUAT 6-1 for the first time that I can recall tonight. I hope they can resolve the problem soon, kinda annoying.

Actually when I said 27-1 was out of sync I shoudl have checked 6-1 as well. It is also out of sync for me so both PBSHD channels are off but only the HD feed. SD on 6-2,3,4,5 appeared fine this morning but I only briefly skimmed them.

Originally posted by AJStone
I'm getting audio lag on KUAT 6-1 for the first time that I can recall tonight. I hope they can resolve the problem soon, kinda annoying. Wow, they do have some serious delay going on there!

I corrected my earlier entry, the audio was ahead of the video. I would imagine that the engineers will be looking into the problem tomorrow, seeing today is Sunday. Oh well, what can ya do?

Originally posted by Carey P
KOLD sure has some lip-sync issues with live broadcasts.

I only notice this during network feeds-- anything local is fine. CSI: was kind of off, but the promos for the news were just fine, as were some of the ads.

Originally posted by Sunkist
Actually when I said 27-1 was out of sync I shoudl have checked 6-1 as well. It is also out of sync for me so both PBSHD channels are off but only the HD feed. SD on 6-2,3,4,5 appeared fine this morning but I only briefly skimmed them.

We do absolutely zero processing/delay to the PBS-HD feed, it comes in, and it goes out. HD-SDI with embedded audio. Any sync issues are national.

Originally posted by Qwijib0
We do absolutely zero processing/delay to the PBS-HD feed, it comes in, and it goes out. HD-SDI with embedded audio. Any sync issues are national.

Anyone know any PBS bigwigs? Luckly it looks so good I can kind of live with the out-of-sync, well not really :p

West Avra Wiz

Any chance of multicasting the Masters in HD on Thursday and Friday?

A couple of nights ago I noticed that there was no signal on the KUAT channels (6-1 through 6-5). I have rescanned a couple of times since then, but am not getting the PSIP data for KUAT. I still get the PSIP for KUAS just fine, however. I can manually go to "actual" frequency for channel 30 and pick up the signal for KUAT, but just can't get the PSIP data. Is anybody else having this trouble, or is it my tuner?

As a result of the scans, I also noticed that there is multicasting on channel 46 (there is a 46-1 and a 46-2). Thus far there has been no video on 46-2, but the PSIP is making an allocation for it.

Has anyone else noticed the KOLD audio problems the last few nights? It's almost like an echoing or two audio streams out of phase.

I just rescanned, and picked up KUAT with the proper virtual channel and all associated guide data without issues.

Well... It looks like we will be running The Masters on 13.1 Monday, if any more of it gets rained out. Have to see what happens Sunday.

Originally posted by Qwijib0
I just rescanned, and picked up KUAT with the proper virtual channel and all associated guide data without issues.

Must be my tuner then. KUAT signal is about as strong as any signal at my place, but KUAT does not get mapped to channels 6-1 to 6-5 anymore. It only picks up the HD signal as channel 30-1. All other Tucson stations (including the PBS KUAS) get mapped correctly. Don't know why KUAT won't register on my tuner.

On a separate note, kudos to West Avra Wiz on Masters coverage on Monday!

I have the same problem on my reciever. KUAT maps to 301.

Thanks for the info smsprague. I don't understand how Qwijib0 is able to get KUAT to register correctly and we don't. But there is much that I still have to learn about this DTV world.

Over the weekend the Master's coverage (on KOLD) was simply splendid. There were very few advertisements, and when they did run, most were in HD. Things went downhill at KOLD this evening -- CSI was run in SD -- perhaps the delay server is on the fritz again? Maybe they should use either the east coast or west coast feed instead of trying to delay the shows -- I'm sure we could adjust to seeing the shows at different times.

I tried before 8:00 pm and got channels 30-1 thru 30-4. Interesting it should have been 6-2 thru 6-5. You would think I would get 30-2 thru 30-5.

KUAT has not changed for me, 6-1 to 6-5 and 27-1 and the audio sync has fixed itself as well.

For better or worse, I had a Dish 921 DVR installed yesterday. So far, so good except for one notable issue. KVOA-DT, which historically has been my most reliable station regardless of antenna or receiver, has suddenly become a problem. The 921 did not pick it up when scanning for DTV stations and it took me a couple of tries this morning for me to successfully acquire it manually. Even then, the receiver can't stay locked long enough to make pictures. That said, the 921 is able to pick up everything else in town, including the Univision station on channel 47.

Has anyone else seen a dramatic change in the KVOA-DT reception in the last couple of days?

Originally posted by Old Fogey
Has anyone else seen a dramatic change in the KVOA-DT reception in the last couple of days?

No change here. KVOA continues to be good at my location.

I did rescan this evening, and now KUAT is registering correctly once again (channels 6-1 through 6-5). Wonder if they did something at KUAT to change the PSIP info.

Hello all,

We've been ordered to try something, and we'd like some opinions. For a short time we will be adding a program on 13.3. It's some music videos from "TheTube". It will be running from 10:00am until about 5:30pm for the next few days. Heck, we may even run it this weekend. I know it's not the best, as it's compressed like crazy before we even get it, but let me know what you think. (We're going to have to run it eventually, so if you have improvement ideas, let me know anyway.)

Originally posted by West Avra Wiz
Hello all,

We've been ordered to try something, and we'd like some opinions. For a short time we will be adding a program on 13.3. It's some music videos from "TheTube". It will be running from 10:00am until about 5:30pm for the next few days. Heck, we may even run it this weekend. I know it's not the best, as it's compressed like crazy before we even get it, but let me know what you think. (We're going to have to run it eventually, so if you have improvement ideas, let me know anyway.) It *does* look a bit fuzzy, but the main thing I noticed is the black bars on the sides. I think this is a signal problem since it can't be zoomed away like you can normally do with 480i material.

Does this mean KOLD is planning something else for 13-2? I am hoping to see a "stretched" 480i version of the 13-1 channel like KVOA currently does. This enables people with plasmas to watch the DTV channel even when there is only 4:3 programming - and not risk burn-in. :)

When watching the plasma, I'm forced to watch analog cable for non-HD programs which is nowhere near the signal clarity of DTV. [Note: Can't zoom 720p or 1080i signals on most plasmas] Thanks!

"but the main thing I noticed is the black bars on the sides"

Hey Carey, try it now. There is no Aspect Ratio convertion on. Of course, some of the videos have their own Aspect... but we can't do anything about that.

Originally posted by West Avra Wiz
"but the main thing I noticed is the black bars on the sides"

Hey Carey, try it now. There is no Aspect Ratio convertion on. Of course, some of the videos have their own Aspect... but we can't do anything about that. It's working now!

Kewl! I'll keep it that way then...

KOLD is probably getting The Tube from Galaxy 10. It is in a group of 16 channels that Equity Broadcasting has on one frequency on that satellite. Of course they may be getting it from another source. Not real clear even on my big dish.

I do see the program on 13-3. Looks much like other SD material on the digital broadcasts.

On a more discouraging note, new episodes on both CSI and Without a Trace were unavailable in HD this evening. Is it the delay server again? HD shows on KOLD (except for live broadcasts) are becomming quite unreliable.

Originally posted by phlewt
I do see the program on 13-3. Looks much like other SD material on the digital broadcasts.

On a more discouraging note, new episodes on both CSI and Without a Trace were unavailable in HD this evening. Is it the delay server again? HD shows on KOLD (except for live broadcasts) are becomming quite unreliable. Yes. Same here. :(

I also noticed it was more serious than a delay server problem. I had to re-scan on one of receivers to get the channel to register at all even though the signal was strong. Also noticed a frozen image for a while at one point. I wonder if these effects are also seen on the Comcast channel. I didn't check it.

Rescan on the US Digital picked up 13-3. Still up as of 11pm Friday. Looks OK for SD some blocking on the GoGo's Our Lips are sealed. This new Lenny Kravitz Video looks real solid. Sound sync looks Ok I'm guessing no multi channel with all these old 80's vids.

I would be much happier about 13-1 having HD again. Of all the channels they are by far the most unreliable when it comes to HD.

Does anyone know why very few commercials or anything else from the networks is in HD? Seems all we get are the shows. Others, like HDNET have almost everything in HD.

Is there any new information about why Comcast is carrying the KOLD and KMSB digital feeds, and Cox still does not? Any word on when the rest of the local channels will get on cable? Cox has all the local Phoenix channels--is there any way we can get access to those down here?

Originally posted by glenngreen
Is there any new information about why Comcast is carrying the KOLD and KMSB digital feeds, and Cox still does not? Any word on when the rest of the local channels will get on cable? Cox has all the local Phoenix channels--is there any way we can get access to those down here?

Glenn,
Do you live in a location from which you can pick up the locals OTA? After buying a HDTV I called COX and discovered the same thing you have discovered, COX Tucson does not provide any locals other than KUAT. I then opted to buy an ATSC tuner box and a small attic UHF antenna, and now receive all the Tucson locals just fine.
I have not heard COX divulge any plans to provide addtional locals in the Tucson region, but would expect them to do so eventually.

alan

When I got my HD recorder from Cox I asked the CSR if they had any calls about the SuperBowl and HD. She looked at me kinda funny and said it's going to be in HD and I said yeah but I had to buy a HD Reciever to get it. She was clueless about what I was talking about and this is the basic problem with COX.

If they can't train their people to understand the basic technology how can they be expected to present the appearence that they offer any kind of real HD locals. They tell people all the time that they get HD locals wrong! No wonder HDTV is getting the "buyer remorse" reputation. Are they instructed to lie or is it just incompetence?

I have no faith in COX getting HD locals in Tucson any time soon. Comcast had the Superbowl and NCAA final four for their subs. Maybe when Analog broadcast ends COX will do the deal. Still your best bet for now is to get an OTA Box or move to Phoenix.

Or you could move to a Comcast service area in Tucson. My son is on Cox and they have no concept of what's going on in the real world. I have Comcast and all works pretty much all the time and they even turn on both DVI and firewire on all the equipped boxes without having to beg and threaten them for 2 months like my son had to do.

Adash, funny you should bring that up. When I got the DVR box, I asked the question and they looked me right in the eye and said "we carry all local channels in HD. If a network program is broadcast in HD, you will get it." Didn't take me long to figure out they lied. I do like the DVR tho, I never had a Tivo.

I bought a DVD player from LG, and it has an OTA tuner in it. I can get all the locals on that just fine. My wife prefers the low tech approach, and would rather not deal with switching input modes on the TV, etc. It will be much simpler if Cox would just carry the digital feeds instead of the analog ones.

I just wonder if they even know the difference between SD and HD. True its hard to discern if all you have is a SD set. Maybe they could set up a field trip to Sears to check out real HDTV. I would love to be able to record even CBS and or FOX on my 8300. I bought a US Digtial OTA box for the Super Bowl and I will need it for ABC and NBC anyway. I will give COX props on the internet and digtal phone but the HDTV service needs some help.

Did anybody else notice that last night Jay Leno was not in "widescreen" HD till after the first commercial break?

And tonight Revelations is not in HD yet...it is currently in a goofy widescreen with black bars all around (top, bottom, left, right).

Did something break down over there?

<UPDATE:8:13PM -- After first commercial break...bingo widescreen HD>

<UPDATE:10:33PM -- Never mind this was across the country both for Leno and Revelations...tonight's Leno just started in HD...and on a Conan note, people are reporting that next Tuesday he will premiere in HD....>

Now I know I'm not the only one hearing the strange audio studdering lately on CBS. I just got a Comcast DVR box and I get the same stuttering on 182 as I do OTA (during tonights CSI, for example). It even happens during commercials too. So others must be seeing (hearing) this too, but it's strange nobody is bothered by it. :rolleyes:

Carey,

I am certainly hearing the audio problems on the KOLD-HD shows. Ever since they added the 13-3 multicast things seem to have gone downhill on the HD broadcasts. They only provided a few seconds worth of HD for "Without a Trace" this evening. Then they dropped back to the analog feed.

Originally posted by Carey P
Now I know I'm not the only one hearing the strange audio studdering lately on CBS.

We all notice it. It's just that it's almost not worth mentioning that KOLD has problems. They seem to invent a new one every night. Unfortunately CBS is a lot of what our prime time viewing is, so I spend a lot of time listening to my wife ask "This is what we paid $3000 for?"

phlewt, I don't know if adding 13-3 has anything to do with it, but I do find the channel kind of interesting. (But I'm of a certain generation.) Ganted the video isn't great, but you're not going to see a Bob Marley video anywhere else.

Originally posted by Carey P
Now I know I'm not the only one hearing the strange audio studdering lately on CBS. I just got a Comcast DVR box and I get the same stuttering on 182 as I do OTA (during tonights CSI, for example). It even happens during commercials too. So others must be seeing (hearing) this too, but it's strange nobody is bothered by it. :rolleyes:

The following could apply to this channel, and was posted in the Phoenix AVS forum.

The reason the sound is tinny for some and not others is that the dialog in a real 5.1 setup is supposed to come from the center channel only, with the front right and left speakers used mainly for directional effects. However, KNXV mixes the center channel out to all 3 front speakers. This is no problem for a 5.1 system, because it decodes correctly. However, when downmixing to 2.0, the mix of center+left+right to left/right basically duplicates the center channel with a few ms delay, in addition to what was already on the left right, creating a nice echo/tinny sound. Anyone with a PC HD capture card and 2.0 speakers or headphones can tell this quite easily. Switch your AC3 decoder's output preference to 5.1, and the echoes go away since you only hear what is on the front left and front right channels in the AC3, but switch it to 2.0 and you hear everything mixed down to 2.0, including a delayed center channel.

HTH,

Rich

Originally posted by tucson_bill
We all notice it. It's just that it's almost not worth mentioning that KOLD has problems. They seem to invent a new one every night. Unfortunately CBS is a lot of what our prime time viewing is, so I spend a lot of time listening to my wife ask "This is what we paid $3000 for?"Amen to that! Plus their additional exposure as the only major network chosen to be on cable, you'd think they would have their act together by now. It has to be embarassing for them I would think.

Originally posted by sytyguy
The following could apply to this channel, and was posted in the Phoenix AVS forum...I don't think this is the case here. This is because KOLD does not have the equipment yet to transmit in 5.1, even though the programming is 5.1. So you can't do this test. In fact, I have had my system set to receive 5.1, but have to use something like Prologic II instead, since it's only 2-channel sound. I get the same echoing with that setup OTA, as I do with Comcast through my TV's stereo speakers. It is just not as pronounced with the latter.

It was obvious they were having more problems than this during 'Without a Trace' last night. There were several occasions of test tones being produced (as if they were working on something), along with interruptions to video during those "echoing" spells.

Carey, I heard the wierd shuttering of the sound on KOLD during Survivor on Thursday. After a few times it stopped. I was surprised it was on both OTA and Comcast.

Today I came home and found a new HD channel on Comcast - TNT-HD. Haven't watched TNT for a while so not sure what type of programs they have but glad Comcast is adding some new channels.

Richard

What channel number is TNT-HD channel on Comcast?

It looks like TNT HD is getting ready to fire up on Comcast-Tucson channel 180.
Bill

Threads merged.

According to CBS and lots of the rest of the country this should be in HD. Both OTA and Comcast are showing SD....

<9:17PM:Ok, somebody flipped the switch, it's HD now....I guess it is better than nothing but we are more than halfway done...I hope this doesn't happen with Letterman this fall!>

Originally posted by bbbobbb
According to CBS and lots of the rest of the country this should be in HD. Both OTA and Comcast are showing SD....

<9:17PM:Ok, somebody flipped the switch, it's HD now....I guess it is better than nothing but we are more than halfway done...I hope this doesn't happen with Letterman this fall!>

I think their server hiccup'd again, I was watching ColdCase and it froze during a commercial, I had to switch back to SD....

Wonder if they will ever get this fixed?

I was told KOLD-HD will be coming to Cox Cable in HD starting 6/15, Also Cox is adding the NFL channel Finally....

Anyone lose their digital stations? I have a mitsu with a built in tuner and I lost all the digital stations. Tescans finds nothing but analog stations...

Edit: Nevermind, A TV reset and they all came back... Thanks

Originally posted by Carey P
Now I know I'm not the only one hearing the strange audio studdering lately on CBS. I just got a Comcast DVR box and I get the same stuttering on 182 as I do OTA (during tonights CSI, for example). It even happens during commercials too. So others must be seeing (hearing) this too, but it's strange nobody is bothered by it. :rolleyes:

I'm getting very tired of this stuttering audio on KOLD - both on Comcast HD and OTA. Sometimes its not ever possible to watch the program. After a while of missing most of what is said there seems to be a click and a blink and then things are fine for a while. Does someone at KOLD have to flip a switch or something? This did all start when they introduced "The Tube" broadcast on 13.2.

KOLD, is this problem fixable? Do you have parts on order? Can you get rid of "The Tube" and see if it continues?

I want you to fix the problem.

Richard

Originally posted by whbiv
It looks like TNT HD is getting ready to fire up on Comcast-Tucson channel 180.
Bill
I will have Comcast installed pretty soon. Can anyone confirm that TNT-HD is on the cable?

I can confirm TNT is available on Comcast 180

Originally posted by GuruB
I can confirm TNT is available on Comcast 180

Thanks, GuruB. The channel was not listed in their web site.

Originally posted by AzRich
I'm getting very tired of this stuttering audio on KOLD - both on Comcast HD and OTA. Sometimes its not ever possible to watch the program. After a while of missing most of what is said there seems to be a click and a blink and then things are fine for a while. Does someone at KOLD have to flip a switch or something? This did all start when they introduced "The Tube" broadcast on 13.2.
KOLD, is this problem fixable? Do you have parts on order? Can you get rid of "The Tube" and see if it continues?
I want you to fix the problem.
Richard

I exchanged e-mail with the KOLD Chief Engineer a couple of weeks ago. He is relatively new at the station and indicates that he is working diligently to get things fixed up. He mentioned the delay server problems, so I'm hoping he will be able to get to the bottom of such things as the stuttering issue.

For what its worth, I doubt that the 13.2 addition contributed to the problems with the delay server. It possibly took away some of the resource that should have been applied to fixing the delay server. My receiver no longer picks up the 13.2 broadcasts (the last couple of scans failed to detect it). Are you still receiving 13.2?

The Tube was actually 13.3 on my receiver but it's been gone for a while now.

"The Tube" has been gone for a while. It was only up for about a week while we did some bandwidth testing. It WAS 13.3, and will be back some time.

The stuttering came about when CBS downloaded new firmware to our HD IRD's. They've been informed and are working on the problem. The same stuttering has occurred on almost half of the CBS stations across the country. Big oops on their part.

The delay server is... well the delay server is. We are constantly working with the manufacturer to find out what's going on. It is not working the way it should, and all parties involved are working to fix the problem.

We are now, and always will be committed to providing the best in High Definition programming for the Tucson area. We just got stuck with a few lemons, but you get what you pay for.

I see in this morning's newspaper that the Emmis Communications Corp. is selling KGUN along with 15 other TV stations. Emmis has been very resistant to allowing cable companies to broadcast a HD signal without paying an extra fee to Emmis. Cable companies won't pay it.

Maybe the new owners will allow Comcast to broadcast ABC in HD. But I guess all this will take at least a year. Till then the OTA works fine.

Richard

KMSB is not broadcasting American Idol in HD tonight. I tried to get in touch with their engineer but could not find a number. Does know the phone number for KMSB engineering department?

Anyone know why KGUN isn't broadcasting the Pacers Pistons game in HD? It was in HD when TNT was broadcasting the game. I really hope they don't keep this up when they are the only station televising the games.

Originally posted by franco begbie
Anyone know why KGUN isn't broadcasting the Pacers Pistons game in HD? It was in HD when TNT was broadcasting the game. I really hope they don't keep this up when they are the only station televising the games. It's not HD from the network, ABC.

All NBA Playoff games from this point, on all networks, will be in HD.

Hello,

Perhaps someone can help me out -- I am considering dropping Directv for Cox, but I frist want to know the selection of HD channels offered by Cox. I am gathering conflicting information, and would like to get a response from someone who actually has the service.

Specifically, the Cox website displays logos for only the following channels on the Tucson HD information page:

INhd
DiscoveryHD
ESPNhd
KUAT
HBO
SHOWTIME
Starz

However, when I spoke with a Cox CSR on the phone, I was told the following channels are currently available in HD (I explicitly stated I did not want him to list any signals that are OTA):

All of the above, plus:
CBS
FOX
NBC
ABC
UniversalHD

Further, a quick search of this thread provided some evidence that Cox did not offer locals in HD in Tucson -- but since the Cox CSR stated the HD locals were added "recently" and the posts were a while ago, I don't know what to think.

Is anyone able to provide me some clarity on this issue?

Thank you.

I went to the cox store here in Tucson, and was told the same story by the CSR. I signed up, and took the SA 8300HD DVR home and eagerly anticipated the evening's network broadcasts in HD.--NOT!

I don't know why, but the phone reps and the local CSRs are misrepresenting the HD availability--just as Cox misrepresents their "digital" cable in general.

We do get Universal HD, InHD1, InHD2, DiscoveryHD, ESPN, and KUAS for free. The premiums are $10 or so.

For no rational reason, Phoenix gets all of the above networks in HD, but Tucson does not carry any of the local channels in HD, even though they all broadcast a digital signal OTA, they do not feed the digital signal to Cox.

HD Viewers:

COX is not being truthful when they tell people that HD from KGUN is available. It is not, and will not be until COX agrees to negotiate a retransmission agreement. The same is true for Comcast, however, I do not believe Comcast tells people that local stations are available.

This is all that is available for COX on cablle in HD....

KUAS-HD
ESPN-HD
INHD1
INHD2
DiscoveryHD
Universal HD
HBO-HD
ShowtimeHD
STarzHD

Upcoming on 6/15 is KOLD in HD

The rest of the networks are haggling with both Cox and Comcast.... They want to charge the cable companies a lot for something that is dree to recieve OTA...

The only other thing I can think of is all Sales and Tech Support is handled through the Phoenix call center with all billing being handled from the Tucson call center.

So possibly when you called in you got PHX and they said all networks are available in HD on cable (because they are in PHX) and didn't notice you are in Tucson? Not an excuse just a possible explanation...

I need some basic info on Comcast digital/HDTV service in the Oro Valley area. I'm new to this, so bear with me....

I currently have Comcast full basic (non-digital). What are the extra monthly fees and hardware needed to upgrade a single display device to receive HDTV signals? I checked Comcast's website, and it is of marginal help. Thanks!

Originally posted by iamjts
Perhaps someone can help me out -- I am considering dropping Directv for Cox, but I frist want to know the selection of HD channels offered by Cox.

Are you located in a place that you can receive the local channels OTA? If so, all you will need is a small antenna and an ATSC tuner for the locals. I continue to subscribe to COX analog service for the cable channels and receive all the digital broadcasts from the local network affiliates OTA. The COX digital HD service would add approximately $25 per month to my cable bill, and would not even give me the local network affiliates in digital. So I'll save my money until COX makes their hi def offering a bit more attractive.

I was told KOLD-HD will be coming to Cox Cable in HD starting 6/15, Also Cox is adding the NFL channel Finally....

Any new info regarding this date? Hopefully the sale of the ABC station from Emmis will allow ABC to be added to COX-HD along with FOX at some future date. Until then I still have my Wal Mart OTA tuner. ;)

I need some basic info on Comcast digital/HDTV service in the Oro Valley area. I'm new to this, so bear with me....

I currently have Comcast full basic (non-digital). What are the extra monthly fees and hardware needed to upgrade a single display device to receive HDTV signals? I checked Comcast's website, and it is of marginal help. Thanks!

All you need is the HDTV stb.. They will rent it to you for $5 per month.. You will only get the local networks that they currently carry the digital feed for.. Fox, CBS, PBS and WB.. If you want any of the other HD they offer, you will need to upgrade your plan to at least digital basic.

Any new info regarding this date? Hopefully the sale of the ABC station from Emmis will allow ABC to be added to COX-HD along with FOX at some future date. Until then I still have my Wal Mart OTA tuner. ;)

Everything is still on as far as I know. Cox is also launching the NFL channel

All you need is the HDTV stb.. They will rent it to you for $5 per month.. You will only get the local networks that they currently carry the digital feed for.. Fox, CBS, PBS and WB.. If you want any of the other HD they offer, you will need to upgrade your plan to at least digital basic.

Thanks. I called today and found out it will cost $20.60 a month to add digital/HDTV/DVR to one display. I think it's called "digital classic" (as opposed to the silver/gold/etc. that include various movie channel combinations). They also told me the box would be a Motorola DCT-6400. Now I need to go learn about those....

Has anyone here had any experience in receiving OTA broadcasts out in Cochise county?

I'm looking at relocating from Las Vegas to southern AZ, and specifically looking at property in the Pierce area. Antennaweb.org indicates I may be able to receive 5 analog stations: 6/PBS; 4/NBC; 9/ABC from Tucson, and 3/TFA (?) from Douglas and 20/NBC from Sierra Vista. I would anticipate using cable or satellite for analog, but would love to be able to get HD OTA. I enjoy 8 digital stations OTA here in Vegas for my HDTV and HTPC for recording / time shift HD programing. But, I'm only 12 miles from the TV towers here in Vegas. I realize I need to expect a few trade-offs for moving out in the boonies in Cochise county. And I would expect to have to have a really large long range antenna, but wonder if the mountain ranges will make OTA reception really unrealistic.
Thanks in advance.

We lived outside Sunsites for four years prior to moving to Tucson. Being close to the mountain on the west side of the valley prevented receiving most analog signals. In fact, we abandoned use of our large Radio Shack outside antenna and went Directv for our broadcast stations. That area qualifies satellite users for East/West network stations.

As for digital, I don't know, but its worth a try as digital doesn't suffer from the same problems (multipath distortion?) as analog.

Good luck in the Pearce area! We enjoyed our country experience there.

Pat

I am new to the whole HDTV thing, maybe you can help me out. I am planning to get a HD TV. I have Dish, but plan to only get my HD channels via Over the Air.
My question is, I live on the east side of Tucson, around Houghton & Speedway; will I be able to receive the the major networks. Also, will I need some high powered antena, or will a basic one be sufficient.
Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks : )

Rimag, you should be able to receive HD over the air with a small outdoor or even a good indoor antenna. Go here to see what is recommended for your location www.antennaweb.org

rimag,

I am at Broadway and Harrison, and I get them all just fine. I am using the Terk antenna that is similar to the silver sensor from Sears.... The Sierra Vista channel is the only one that is sporadic. A better antenna or one on the roof would likely cure that issue.

I'm looking at relocating from Las Vegas to southern AZ, and specifically looking at property in the Pierce area.

I think you might mean Pearce (instead of Pierce). If so, it is possible you might have some coverage from Mt. Bigelow (location of most of the digital transmitters for Tucson). I have been on Mt. Bigelow and was able to see at least part of the Chiricahua mountains from there. If you are closer to Sierra Vista, the Santa Rita mountains will totally block your view of Mt. Bigelow.

I am new to the whole HDTV thing, maybe you can help me out. I am planning to get a HD TV. I have Dish, but plan to only get my HD channels via Over the Air.
My question is, I live on the east side of Tucson, around Houghton & Speedway; will I be able to receive the the major networks. Also, will I need some high powered antena, or will a basic one be sufficient.
Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks : )

Yep you will get them easily with a small rooftop antenna. I'm at Houghton and broadway and get everything but the WB channel. I also have Dish network, the HD reciever works just fine for OTA as well!

I think you might mean Pearce (instead of Pierce). If so, it is possible you might have some coverage from Mt. Bigelow (location of most of the digital transmitters for Tucson). I have been on Mt. Bigelow and was able to see at least part of the Chiricahua mountains from there. If you are closer to Sierra Vista, the Santa Rita mountains will totally block your view of Mt. Bigelow.

Yes, I meant Pearce. I guess if I buy property there I'll learn how to spell it. :p

Thanks for the tips. I'll keep an eye on those mountain ranges.

Hello everybody...

Well, "The Tube" is back. This time semi-permanently. They are still having a few problems, and will soon be changing to a different satellite, so it may get better. We have a new corporate directive, so look for some exciting changes later this year. We have been working hard to get our stuff better, and we are planning on getting some nice upgrades to the aging gear we have now.

We continue to strive to be the best HDTV program provider in Tucson, with the best, most innovative programming in the area. Keep watching, and please, keep letting us know how we are doing.

Thanks BigFoot, CombatTalon, & GlenGreen for your insights about east-side reception.
I plan to start shopping for a HDTV One of the things that is important to me is which TV's provide good reception for NON-HD signals. I friend of mine has an expensive HDTV which displays fantantic HD images, however when you watch something in a non-high def signal, the picture is worse than on my old 90's era Toshiba CRT. Any suggestions on which HDTV's are good at displaying non HDTV signals?
Thanks again

Any suggestions on which HDTV's are good at displaying non HDTV signals?When our 12 year old Hitachi rear projection failed last year we looked at everything that was available. We decided that LCD, DLP, etc. were too expensive and had some problems (bulb life, screen door effect, rainbows, etc.), so we limited our search to CRT rear projection.

We bought a Hitachi 57" from Sears but had some failures (four!) so switched to Sony 57". We are very happy with both the SD and HD picture quality.

You should search the TV forums here at AVS for opinions on all the different sets out there. Good luck!

Friday's Washington Post compared viewership among the local news programs. They said that WUSA's introduction of HD has not helped their viewership.

Does anyone know if the rating services (e.g. Nielsen) are monitoring HD receivers?

I realize that even if they did, the numbers would be small. But the Post's report is misleading if technology to monitor HD viewing is not being employed.

Thanks BigFoot, CombatTalon, & GlenGreen for your insights about east-side reception.
I plan to start shopping for a HDTV One of the things that is important to me is which TV's provide good reception for NON-HD signals. I friend of mine has an expensive HDTV which displays fantantic HD images, however when you watch something in a non-high def signal, the picture is worse than on my old 90's era Toshiba CRT. Any suggestions on which HDTV's are good at displaying non HDTV signals?
Thanks again

I had the same worry, I enden up buying a Mitsubishi DLP from Roh's and absolutely love it. It is a WD-52525. 52" DLP, Built on OTA TUner etc. Stop by and check it out. They are at Campbell/Glenn in the shopping center behind Old CHicago....

Dumb question,

Antennaweb says channel 18/UPN is in the Tucson mountains for both analog and digital, as is telemundo. I get telemundo digital great, high signal strength as I'd expect living right next to it, but no channel 18_1 whatsoever. I'd expect something with my huge new channel master antenna living right next to that mountain.

Is antennaweb out of date? Have they moved their transmitter to Bigelow? Being obstructed from Mt Bigelow I was hoping to at least get 18 in addition to 27 and WB.

Thanks,

Rob

18.1 is on Bigelow

Aren't the digital channels "_1 or .1" etc.? Analog would be 18, digital 18.1.

Dumb question,

Antennaweb says channel 18/UPN is in the Tucson mountains for both analog and digital, as is telemundo.Can't trust antennaweb. Only analog 18 is in the Tucson Mtns, just like 13 (at least they got that right).

I'm near that mountain too and have never been able to receive analog from Bigelow (I use cable), even with a huge VHF antenna. However, I get all the digitals from Bigelow just fine using an 8-bay bowtie, rotor and preamp.

Can't trust antennaweb. Only analog 18 is in the Tucson Mtns, just like 13 (at least they got that right).

I'm near that mountain too and have never been able to receive analog from Bigelow (I use cable), even with a huge VHF antenna. However, I get all the digitals from Bigelow just fine using an 8-bay bowtie, rotor and preamp.

Thanks guys, that explains it. Gives me hope my 8 bay will work too (time to spring for a preamp I guess.)

Rob

I just moved from Chicago to Queen Creek last week. Saturday my Sony HDTV arrived and I hooked up a silver sensor and activated the scan. I was hoping to receive phoenix digital stations and was surprised when only Tucson stations locked in. KOLD was the only station I didn't get.
Just for fun I tore a 12" piece of aluminum foil and folded it in half. I poked a hole in the middle and attached it to the back of the silver sensor right where the cable screws on. I hit the scan button again and this time KOLD was solid along with CBS and PBS Phoenix. I was shocked at how much difference the foil made.
The cable came today so now I have the Phoenix locals along with Tucson. According to the FCC database I'm 71 miles from the Tucson transmitters and 31 from Phoenix.

Thanks guys, that explains it. Gives me hope my 8 bay will work too (time to spring for a preamp I guess.)

RobI use the 7772 preamp found here (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7775.htm). It got me an extra 5 dB over the high gain RS preamp I was using before. Though if you want to try that one PM me.

Here is an email I sent to KVOA 4.1 chief engineer yesterday:

I've noticed that for the past few days the picture I receive
from the digital signal (4.1) from my over-the-air antenna has changed in
shape. When the program is not in high-definition the picture has stretch
out almost to the edge of my 16:9 HD Sony television. For example, when I
watch your news broadcast the top several inches of the newscasters' heads are cut
off. Some of the words near the bottom of the screen are cut off. This
also happens to commercials and programs that are not in HD. It does not
happen on a HD broadcast like the Tonight Show. This change has not
happened on channels 9.1, 11.1, or 13.1 so I believe it is something
coming from your signal broadcast and not my television. I hope this
description of the problem will help you correct it. Richard

Here was the response from Tom Scriven, KVOA Assistant Chief Engineer:

We have done nothing to change the aspect ratio on our HD/Digital broadcast.
I have checked on our "Off Air" monitor, our front lobby HD TV, and on my
personal digital receiver, all standard definition programs up converted
have black side panels to fill out the screen. Please insure that you are
tuned to 4.1 and not 4.2. Channel 4.2 is a simulcast of our analog program
in standard definition with the 4:3 aspect ratio. I do not understand how
the effect is only on our 4.1 and not on 9.1, 11.1, or 13.1. Do you see it
on 58.1, 6.2,6.3, 6.4, 6.5, or 18.1?

Has anyone on this AVS Forum noticed the same change as I have this week? All my other OTA channels are as they always have been - no change. I have checked to make sure the wide mode has not been turned on. I would like some help here in responding to KVOA again. Thanks.

Richard

AzRich

Do you have a USDTV receiver? If so, I ran into a strange glitch a few months ago and I posted the following. I think I saw the same problem as you and I was certain it was at the stations. Wrong!

[Post 756]
Title: Oops
Author: babakanoosh
Date: 03-17-05 01:49 PM

KOLD is OK. My last post was my own problem Apparently I have discovered a new little glitch with the USDTV receiver. It was at 1080i. I wanted to see what would happen if I switched it to 720p. This should not matter. Well, at 720P the signal was HD, no spread-o-vision. So I switched it back to 1080i and now that was HD also. In addition, KVOA, 4-1, which I thought had been spread was not. It was SD 4x3 as it should be. In between sometime I also did an unplug reset but that did not fix it, at least by itself.

So, all you out there with USDTV receivers, watch out for this one.

babakanoosh,

Thanks for the input but my Sony has its own tuner. Your post did make me think if I have unplugged, lost power, or reset anything and I don't think any of these things happened this week.

I was able to go to my Sony's menu and change the "overscan" for normal to -1. This helped a little but also affects all the other stations that are just fine.

So I take it your OTA KVOA 4.1 digital broadcast has not changed lately? I usually watch KVOA local news but its too wierd having the tops of their heads cut off. I find that KGUN has the best quality picture from their newsroom. Don't care for their approach much though.

Thanks again, Richard

AZRich

You are right. KVOA 4.1 has this goofy almost wide screen picture. All other stations are OK so it has to be at their end. I will contact KVOA on Monday. Can you give me the email/phone of the chief engr (post here or private message).

Also, KGUN 9.1 (ch 35) has no signal right now. Same at your end?

Thanks.

I'm not getting a signal from KGUN-DT 9.1 today.

I wasn't getting 9.1 earlier today but at 4:15 pm I am getting it.

Has KGUN increased it's power , I'm getting a stronger signal than usual today?

AZRich

You are right. KVOA 4.1 has this goofy almost wide screen picture. All other stations are OK so it has to be at their end. I will contact KVOA on Monday. Can you give me the email/phone of the chief engr (post here or private message).

Also, KGUN 9.1 (ch 35) has no signal right now. Same at your end?

Thanks.

I can confirm, I get this on KVOA 4.1 also; I didn't even notice it until I read these comments, but it's there. It's like the image has been zoomed in a little so that that the AR is somewhere between 4:3 and 16:9.

Guys, I have to decrease the volume on my receiver by 6db every time I tune to KGUN 9.1 - what a pain! Does anybody else have this problem - and, if so, why is this channel is so much louder than the other Tucson OTA channels?

Channel 9.1 is blasting for me as well. Especially on the commercials. Also on KVOA the picture is zoomed on my set as well. I think I noticed it last night on dateline.

Hello Everyone,
I am currently serving overseas, but will be home on leave for a couple of weeks. Can anyone tell me which OTA HD channels are available in the Continental Ranch area (Far NW Tucson/Marana area)? I am not sure about the accuracy of antennaweb . If OTA HD is available what type of antennas are folks using to pick up stations? BTW, I am using DIRECTV receivers for OTA pick-up.

Has KGUN increased it's power , I'm getting a stronger signal than usual today?

Kgun either moved to a different tower or put in a new transmitter this weekend. I don't recall which one, but they were announcing on the news Fri there would be service interruptions this past weekend..

Called KVOA, talked to Tom in engineering. He said they did not see the problem with 3 different receivers at the station. I told him multiple people on this forum have reorted this problem so he must accept it as real. I don't know if I convinced him. We'll see what happens in a week or so since this is not a critical problem.

I am not seeing the zoom with KVOA. I use an LG DVD/OTA Tuner combo with component video output cables. Since my TV only displays 720 lines, I have the output set to that, but I know you can select up to 1080. I am wondering if those of you that are seeing the zoom have it set to up or downconvert to something different? Could it be a glitch in the conversion in other words? The TV has converter settings also. If you are using DVI or HDMI cables this is moot. Is anyone seeing the zoom with HDMI or DVI cables? That would rule out size or line conversion issues I think.

Glad you spoke with the KVOA engineer. I'm afraid though that on my Sony it is very distracting. Like I said above an anchor person like Tom McNamara has two or three inches of the top of his head cut off. To me this is unacceptable and I won't watch their non-HD broadcasts. Maybe I should invite Tom to stop by my house during a news broadcast.

Richard

AzRich

The news isn't in HD anyway. Watch it on 4.2. I have to check during a real HD program weather 4.1 is OK. Do you know?

Wait a minute, I just checked and 4.1 is OK( 4:10 PM). Maybe they fixed it.

Is channel 11.1 off the air? I am not receiving it today.

Kgun either moved to a different tower or put in a new transmitter this weekend. I don't recall which one, but they were announcing on the news Fri there would be service interruptions this past weekend..
Hello, I'm the CE at KGUN. We are in the process of replacing our tower and DTV/analog antennas at the transmitter site. We need to replace the tower to install a full power DTV antenna. We have temporarily relocated both the analog and DTV antennas to a nearby tower. We moved the DTV antenna on Saturday and moved the analog ch.9 antenna this morning.

As it stands today, DTV reception may be improved in some areas because the DTV antenna is higher on the temporary tower than the existing tower. Analog ch.9 may be lacking in a few areas on the outer edges of Tucson because it is mounted lower on the temporary tower than the existing tower. We expect to have this project completed in July 2005.

The existing tower has been supporting the analog antenna since 1956. However, it cannot support the additional load of a full power DTV antenna, thus the need to replace the tower with a more capable one.

ERP for analog will remain the same as it has since 1956, but with a new antenna and transmission line. ERP for DTV will increase from 40kW to 266kW.

We are also looking into the previously mentioned audio issue on 9.1

Thanks in advance for your patience while we perform this major overhaul.

babakanoosh,

I checked 4.1 when I got home from work today and YES, it was back to normal - not all stretch out almost to the edge. You're right, they must have fixed it. I realize the news is not in HD but it is broadcast with a digital signal OTA. This digital signal is much clearer than the standard definition on 4.2.

I tuned into Vegas in HD on channel 4.1 and it was fine.

I'm loving HD on our Sony. I see that Comcast is changing their channel lineup on June 18. They are adding the 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, 6.5 channels and several others.

Thanks for your help.
Richard

New to the world of forums. I live near Tanque Verde and Camino Principal, Tucson Country Club. Own 3 HD sets and 3 HD boxes. Currently utilize DirecTV for high def and locals. Have tried a multitiude of antennae for high def local with poor results. Tried the RCA parabolic device that hooks to the dish, no good, amplified inddor works part-time. Neighborhood assoc. laws forbid rooftops aerial. asked locals for a waiver, denied. Any help?
Thanks

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=131829&page=1&pp=30
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Like one of the previous posts I was told that by a CSR that Cox had all the local channels in HD. Well I got home and found out I only get KUAT. I called up the tech support to see if I was just doing something wrong and they said Tucson doesn't have any other local channels in Tucson (even though they are advertising at my local Best Buy as having them) and I was stuck with what I have. Does anybody know when COX is going to add HD Channels? I saw the post about KOLD on the 15th, that would be a start. Thanks

Cox says they would gladly pass the digital signal through to us, if the stations would supply it instead of the analog. Ray Depa from KGUN is the only one who has spoken recently about this, but basically the stations want Cox to pay for the signal, even though they do not charge the customers any extra for it. Its true that we pay more for the digital cable box, but that is to access more channels and higher overall quality. If a local station sends a digital signal, we do not pay any more to get it. When the analog signal is dropped and everything switches to digital (within a year?), the locals will have no choice but to pass digital to Cox. If they would drop their unreasonable demand for more $$, we could have it now. Cox carries all the local channels in Phoenix--does anyone know if they pay for any of them? I bet not.

Cox carries all the local channels in Phoenix--does anyone know if they pay for any of them? I bet not.

If you are able to receive the local channels OTA, do it. COX appears to be in no hurry to meet the desires of its Tucson customers. Does anyone believe that the local channels are offering the digital feeds to Comcast at no cost while demanding that COX cough up lots of money for them?

Its too bad that COX management isolates themselves from their customers and does not offer any way for customers to provide them with feedback. I finally provided my feedback by NOT signing up for their so called digital service.

Phlewt has it right...if you can get OTA you'll be much happier. Comcast is almost as bad as Cox, with finger pointing and/or no answers/wrong answers as to when NBC and ABC HD signals will be on their system. I have one of those Zenith indoor set top antennas and it works amazingly well 100% of the time (assuming the stations aren't screwing something up... :-) ) . If I could get a reasonbly priced two tuner HD-DVR I would dump Comcast... :p

You are right about getting an OTA tuner instead of waiting. I use the OTA for locals, but I do enjoy the DVR functions on the cable HD channels. It would be much better if the locals were on cable, so that the DVR would function for those as well. I have had about 5 new cable boxes over the past 8 years or so, and I really like the fact that they don't cost too much--else I would consider a HD DVR satellite system.

Folks:

KGUN-HD is not available on COX or Comcast and will not be until they agree to pay us. They have been able to monitize their digital investment by charging their customers more. Quite simply this is a fairness issue. They have NO problem paying for content from national providers, but when it comes to local television, which is watched by far more people than any other cable channel, the cable operators treat us with disdain. You do pay more for digital services on cable. We have spent millions on HD including replacing our current transmission tower on Mt. Bigelow. On July 20th, when our tower and antenna project are completed, we will be providing the best HD signal in the market. And, we are NOT going to give it away to cable! I hate to put viewers in the middle of this fight, but the very viability of over the air broadcasting is at stake.

We gave away our signals in 1993 when new the Communications Act was enacted. Companies like ours are NOT going to allow it to happen again in the HD era. Les Moonves, the head of CBS, just said that CBS owned and operated stations will demand payment. Many other broadcasters are taking the same position.

I have a position paper on this topic that I would be happy to send to you. Just give me a call at 290-7600.

Ray Depa
VP & GM
KGUN

Gee Ray,

You feel so strongly about this. But, even in Tucson apparently the owners of the local CBS, FOX, and UPN don't agree with you. In Phoenix, I think most, if not all the locals HD's are on cable. Same is true almost everywhere else I have been. So, I think it is possible that your company's approach is in the minority. And if I put up an antenna, which I did, it is free! The satellite companies use a built in OTA tuner with an antenna so it is free for those users too. Soon, all new TVs will have built in digital tuners. I think I have read that less than 5% of the population is in areas where they cannot get OTA reception. Even here in Tucson, you have just boosted your power so more people can get it (free). People in Phoenix are receiving your signal now. They don't even patronize the local advertisers that pay you. What do you care how I get your signal as long as I watch it so you can sell advertising. You are spending money to upgrade your signal so more people will watch.

At one time, many people got cable because the signal quality was much better than with an antenna. With digital that is no longer true. In fact, while cable is still sending analog, OTA is better even on SD. On this forum you will see many peole discover that with a cheap little antenna they just don't really care whether cable carries your HD or not.

Maybe with the change in ownership at your station, your new management will see the light. I'll enjoy watching the basketballl game tonight on KGUN in HD FREE. Thank you.

Before we pound on Ray....I do want to thank him for at least posting and telling us some of the rationale, that goes a long way with me in understanding the issue and it does show that there are station managers reading this little internet forum. Having said that are we to assume since CBS/KOLD is on Comcast that Comcast paid CBS/KOLD? And FOX and UPN did as well? Not that it is any of my business other than just being a customer who wants to view HD KGUN/ABC shows on the cable service I pay more than $85 a month to; did all of the locals that are on Comcast pay the same "fee"? What are we talking about here, a one time $50K thing, a MRC per cable customer, a yearly charge? And Babakanoosh does bring up a good point that other markets don't have this issue, why do we have it in Tucson? Once again I do appreciate Ray taking the time to give it to us from the man in charge....

Folks:
. . . They have been able to monitize their digital investment by charging their customers more. Quite simply this is a fairness issue. . . . You do pay more for digital services on cable. . . . And, we are NOT going to give it away to cable! . . . Companies like ours are NOT going to allow it to happen again in the HD era. . . .
Ray Depa
VP & GM
KGUN

Ray,

KGUN and the other network affiliates are already "giving away" HD program content to OTA viewers. OTA programming has historically been paid for by advertising. I don't understand what would change in this approach just because the transport is digital rather than analog.

If the cable companies charge more for "digital" than they do for analog, there will be an increase in the migration of their customers to satellite. In fact, I am not presently motivated to subscribe to digital cable because the content my family watches would still be delivered in analog.

If the cable companies were to simply pass your digital programming through to their customers and not charge an additional fee for it, would you (KGUN) be willing to "give away" the digital content to them?

phelwt

Folks:

I hate to put viewers in the middle of this fight, but the very viability of over the air broadcasting is at stake.

Ray Depa
VP & GM
KGUN

What about the viewers in most Northwest areas of Tucson who are unable to receive over the air from the Mt. Bigelow antennas? I have not heard any plans for repeater antennas to cover this area of viewers that is growing very fast. I have a high quality UHF antenna mounted on the roof of my home but all I can get are the stations with antennas near the Tumamoc Hill area and Channel 58 in Sierra Vista. PBS and UPN are already at full power on Bigelow and I cannot receive them so I doubt that I will be able to receive KGUN even with the new tower and antennas. I receive the PBS and CBS HD signals through Comcast so I pretty much watch those channels. To be honest I cannot remember the last time I have tuned in to KGUN since the others came on Comcast with their HD signal.

Folks:

You do pay more for digital services on cable.

Ray Depa
VP & GM
KGUN

Ray,

I have two HD sets that are QAM capable to allow reception of digital unscrambled cable channels. I have Comcast "BASIC" cable service only, with no expanded basic or digital tiers of any kind! My cable TV service runs about $12 a month. I receive at no extra charge of any kind the following local digital stations as sub channels of 87 and 88:

88.2 (182) - KOLD-DT CBS
88.1 (183) - KMSB-DT FOX
87.1 (185) - KTTU-DT UPN
87.2 (190) - KUAT-DT PBS

From what I have read on the FCC's own web site they mandate that cable companies must pass on any local digital channels unscrambled and at no additional charge other then the basic cable charge. All that is required is that the viewer must have the equipment needed to tune and view digital SD and HD broadcasts.

Re: HD, KGUN on cable;

When the FCC mandated the stations transmit in digital they also gave away some very valuable bandwidth. Mr. Depa doesn't acknowledge that gift. Those frequencies can carry up to 4 or 5 different programs including one in HD. KUAT is using all of them. KVOA is using 2 of them. The mandate, however, is just for digital, not HD. HD is purely voluntary and the motivation, of couse, is money and competition. So I would be curious as to why KGUN spent all that money to add HD capability, free OTA, to all customers. Where is that payback? I would assume Mr. Depa would like as many customers as possible to watch KGUN HD. Why don't you want even more custmers to watch it on cable?

The reason KGUN (and KVOA) is not on cable here has nothing to do with what Mr. Depa personally thinks. It is the owner of KGUN, Emmis Communications, that has this policy. So you will find all over the country, that Emmis digital HD stations, of all networks, are not on cable. Same goes for the owners of KVOA which I think is a much smaller player.

Emmis is selling KGUN, and I think all of its other TV stations, effective in 2006 (?). I'll bet that soon after this policy will change.

Ray, I want to thank you also for posting on this forum. I have to admire your openness and stating your position in a potential negative environment. Please keep posting here when appropriate.


To RJRSW;
I see you have given up on OTA in North west Tucson. Would you mind posting what kind of antenna and HD receiver you are using?

Re:
To RJRSW;
I see you have given up on OTA in North west Tucson. Would you mind posting what kind of antenna and HD receiver you are using?

I have actually tried a number of different antennas both indoor and rooftop including the classic YAGI, the Antennas Direct DB4 bow tie type, Radio Shack double bow tie, Silver Sensor and a couple of Terk rooftops. I have had the best gain and multipath rejection from the Antennas Direct DB4 ( http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html).

I have used the Samsung T165 and the newer 451. I currently have two new sets with built in ATSC tuners. Both of these are new models with the latest chip sets. In the bedroom I have a samsung 26" widescreen and in the family room a just released new panasonic 44" widescreen LCD with built in tuner. I might mention this new Panasonic seems to have the best HD tuner I have seen.

I have a direct unobstructed view of the west side of Mt. lemon from the roof top antenna and I get nothing from any of the above mentioned antennas from the Bigelow antenna farm. The antennas to my south come in very strong. The best I can detemine is that Mt Lemon is totally blocking the signals from Bigelow to my location just about a half mile South of Cortaro Road on Silverbell.

From what I last heard from personnel at Channel 13's studios and Comcasts studios they are unable to get the digital signals off of Bigelow either even with their superior antenna heights and equipment.

I know of very few people in the Northwest areas that are able to get any consistent signals from Bigelow.

I have a direct unobstructed view of the west side of Mt. lemon from the roof top antenna and I get nothing from any of the above mentioned antennas from the Bigelow antenna farm. The antennas to my south come in very strong. The best I can detemine is that Mt Lemon is totally blocking the signals from Bigelow to my location just about a half mile South of Cortaro Road on Silverbell.

From what I last heard from personnel at Channel 13's studios and Comcasts studios they are unable to get the digital signals off of Bigelow either even with their superior antenna heights and equipment.

I know of very few people in the Northwest areas that are able to get any consistent signals from Bigelow.

I live about 10-12 miles closer to Mt. Bigelow than you near Oro Valley (definitely in the shadow of Mt. Lemmon!) and can get a good signal from all but KUAT. I've had trouble with KOLD and recently KGUN, but never had any signal problems with KVOA. I have a Channel Master 4228 (8 bay bow tie). My tuners are a Dish Network 811 and an ATI HTDV Wonder card in my PC. I have a friend 3 miles closer (with the same antenna) and he gets everything but KUAT and KVOA.
I talked with the KUAT engineer (on their forum at KUAT) and he seems to think that KUAT’s signal is too strong (as it is stronger than anyone else’s on Bigelow). I tried using a smaller antenna and attenuators, but the signal is just not there.
I’ve just begun experimenting with adding a second antenna about 16 feet from the first connected with a splitter/combiner and pre-amp. This gives me a more stable signal with both KOLD and KGUN and a slightly stronger signal overall. (I also can see that KUAT is present from time to time, but nothing good enough for more than a few seconds of video.)
I’m beginning to think this DTV reception stuff is a bunch of voodoo. Maybe I need to sacrifice a chicken or something. :)

Mark

Tortolita,

I have tried antennas with ranges varying from 25 to 85 miles and it makes no difference but I can get some Phoenix stations occasionally such as 17 (CBS 5). I have raised and lowered the height and my tuner will register signal strengths as low as 10 even if it is unable to lock the signal but the Bigelow stations I get nothing not even a sniff of a signal. The Comcast and channel 13 studios are about 1 mile directly East of me and they cannot get OTA from Bigelow either. I know that some stations can be gotten from a location only 1/2 mile North of me. My Son and my Daughter both live on the SE side about the same distance as I am from Bigelow and they can get all the Bigelow stations with a Silver Sensor Sensor on top of the TV. They don't even have to carefully aim the antenna to get good reception but they have a clear view of Bigelow.

[QUOTE=RJRSW]
From what I last heard from personnel at Channel 13's studios and Comcasts studios they are unable to get the digital signals off of Bigelow either even with their superior antenna heights and equipment.



That's not exactly true...

We do receive our signal from Bigelow at the KOLD Studios. We can get KUAT, KOLD and sometimes KGUN, but not KMSB or KVOA. Our equipment isn't all that much better. In fact it's a heck of a lot pickier at what it wants. We got the most reliable signal, with a cheap, off the shelf Zenith receiver. The Zenith was around $200, while the "Good" receivers we have run about $6500.

Height has nothing to do with Digital signals these days. We tried 65' in the air, 35', and 25', and got nothing. I laid the antenna on the ground to go inside for a moment, and got a great signal. It IS a little bit of voodoo, in that the old way of getting a signal into an antenna no longer applies. Seems like many times, having something large behind the antenna works better than out in the open. Sometimes a few feet off the ground works better than on a rooftop. The main point is don't give up, keep trying. Put a long lead on and wander all around your property, high and low. when you find a spot that works, lock it in. Experiment, and don't give in until you've tried every inch of your property, up and down. So, you might have a hard time explaining to the wife why there is an antenna right outside the living room picture window, spoiling the view. But if you get a good signal, you can at least wow her with High Def Ice Skating, or something. hehehe

[QUOTE=RJRSW]
From what I last heard from personnel at Channel 13's studios and Comcasts studios they are unable to get the digital signals off of Bigelow either even with their superior antenna heights and equipment.



That's not exactly true...

I was told that by Chuck Amy your former Chief Engineer. I'm glad to here you guys finally found an antenna location that works now. I tried moving the antenna around on a 100' R6 cable but have had no luck on anything off of the Bigelow antennas so far.

RJRSW

Here is what is happening. If you don't have line of site to the antennas then any signal you recieve is the result of reflections. In the digital signal world this is called multipath. The key to the performance of a receiver is multipath rejection, trying to discriminate between the strongest (usually) signal, the line of sight one. and the many reflections. In your situation (and mine in Oro Valley) you only get multipath signals. The phase and direction orientation can be anything. West Avra Wiz is correct when he says you might get the best reception lying the antenna on the ground. In my case it was lying it on a lounge chair.

The antenna you are using, the 4228, is the best kind but you must be sure the screen behind the elements is properly grounded. The screen acts as a shield so you don't get signal from the opposite direction. A lot of times with multipath it works best if pointed about 30 degrees away from the antennas but anything is possible. At my house things got better in general as I moved it closer to my house wall. I suspect this is because the chicken wire screen in the stucco acted as a shield.

I usually also tell people the most important factor is the receiver design. Cost has nothing to do with it. There have been a lot of improvements in the last year. Your TV's built in tuners should be a new design but I don't know how good they are. From my experience, the very worst one is the Dish 811. I had a Samsung and it was only a little better. Voom has a built in one and it was very good. The best is my current USDTV (Walmart $200). The Zenith (same as LG) are also very good.

I know where you live it is very difficult. If all you could ever get was KOLD and KUAT, you can get those on Comcast anyway. I wonder if you have a beter chance at KGUN now since they have drastically boosted their power.

Anyway, you should try grounding the shield and if you can, to buy the USDTV from Walmart since you can easily return it. Good luck.

The USDTV from Walmart works good at rejecting Multipath signals. It also has a good guide.

Folks:

KGUN is presently replacing its 50 year old transmission tower on Mt. Bigelow. The original tower could not handle the additional weight of a full power HD antenna. In the meantime, both Channel 9 and the low power Channel 35 antennas have been mounted on Channel 13's old tower. When the new tower is up.....July 20th is the target date....we will be able to mount a full power Channel 35 antenna, which will dramatically improve the HD coverage area.

The temporary re-location of both the 9 and 35 antennas has impacted some viewers....but it won't last long.

Your feedback on the cable issue is much appreciated. Just to clarify some of the things I have been reading....there is NO FCC mandate keeping cable companies from not charging their customers. They do charge you more. In fact, many members of congress are curious why cable rates have risen so dramatically over the past several years. The "must carry" debate rages on....cable operators are not required to carry all of a local station's HD channels. And, you are absolutely right when you say we provide a "free" signal...however, that does not give cable or anyone else the right to "pirate" that signal and then charge you a fee to watch it. Finally.....I am not simply the "company drone" on this issue. I personally believe that broadcasters should be paid by the cable companies.

Thanks for the opportunity to "chat" with you folks.

Well I guess all the networks don't feel the same as Ray's. Just like the rumor said, Cox started broadcasting KOLD 13 in HD yesterday! I think I'll be watching a lot more of 13 now :).

Well I guess all the networks don't feel the same as Ray's. Just like the rumor said, Cox started broadcasting KOLD 13 in HD yesterday! I think I'll be watching a lot more of 13 now :)...

That sound s great. My son has Cox and he has been waiting for KOLD-HD to come on line.

What channel is KOLD-HD being broadcast on?

I think it's channel 713.

I think it's channel 713.

Yes it is 713. Plus all locals (whenever they get added) will be on the same channel as they are normally just with a 7 in front of it, ie Ch 4 KVOA will be 704...

Hi, yesterday I was able to tune in KOLD HD on Cox with a Fusion 5 Lite tuned to (real) channel 111.2. Looks like PBS HD is on channel 111.1. Sadly, KOLD on Cox looks much worse than the OTA broadcast! Is it using half the ATSC bitrate because it is sharing a channel with PBS? If so, this really bites, because I can see ugly macroblocking every time there is a scene change. :mad:

As I can't see it, don't get, or have access to Cox, I'd appreciate any reports about the quality of KOLD on COX. I get OTA and Comcast, but until Cox puts in a back-haul line, (which will probably never happen) I have no way of seeing or verifying any complaints. Let me know about major problems with Cox and KOLD.

All QAM cable channels are 38.4 mbit/s, so putting 2 HD channels on 1 physical channel doesn't cause any huge problems. Up here in Phoenix, Cox doesn't reencode any channels (I don't think, anyway). CBS is shared with ABC though, so there's plenty of bandwidth to go around, because ABC's HD channel has to share the 19.2 mbit/s with an SD channel on the OTA broadcast, which Cox doesn't carry. Good to see those of you down south getting slightly less screwed by Cox; now if only the marketers at KOLD would just stop spreading their fecal matter (promos) all over the HD channel ;)

West Avra Wiz

From what I am seeing here, I think the digital signal makes for a much better picture than the analog one on Cox. 713 has a great picture, even when the programming is SD it is better than analog. HD is, of course, the best. The digial OTA signal is my favorite, but the digital one on Cox is a close second. There is some pixelation occasionally, but not too bad. I do notice that the digital channels tend to have lower volume levels, and I have to crank up the volume quite a bit. I don't know why that is.

West Avra Wiz

From what I am seeing here, I think the digital signal makes for a much better picture than the analog one on Cox. 713 has a great picture, even when the programming is SD it is better than analog. HD is, of course, the best. The digial OTA signal is my favorite, but the digital one on Cox is a close second. There is some pixelation occasionally, but not too bad. I do notice that the digital channels tend to have lower volume levels, and I have to crank up the volume quite a bit. I don't know why that is.

On your digi remote press setting twice to go into the main settings menu, Scroll down to audio range, Make sure it is on narrow. If not change it to narrow. This should fix the audio variation problem...

ANd yes 713 looks great from here.....

I'm planning to order an upgrade from my current Comcast service (expanded basic) to digital basic with HDTV and a DVR. I believe that by doing so through Best Buy or Circuit City I will save $100 on my future bills. Is that the best deal out there? Also, is there anything I should know about their DVR equipment to ensure I'm getting Comcast's best stuff? (my concern is that there may be several "generations" of equipment floating around out there; some better than others....)

I plan to use the DVI output to feed digital direct to a 720p projector via an HDMI input. Thanks for any advice or "lessons learned" that anyone cares to share.

[QUOTE=NMJack] Also, is there anything I should know about their DVR equipment to ensure I'm getting Comcast's best stuff? (my concern is that there may be several "generations" of equipment floating around out there; some better than others....)QUOTE]

You want the Motorola 6412 dual tuner HD DVR box. I have had it since it came out and have used the DVI connection and record to my JVC D-VHS via firewire all the time to archive shows I want to keep.

You want the Motorola 6412 dual tuner HD DVR box. I have had it since it came out and have used the DVI connection and record to my JVC D-VHS via firewire all the time to archive shows I want to keep.

Thanks RJRSW. Comcast told me on the phone that they are currently providing a "6400 series" box. I'll ask if they are all the latest or not.

Is there a problem with KVOA.I haven't had any video since last week? The signal strength is okay and I get the guide but no picture.

Just checked it... working fine here on both 4-1 & 4-2.

Tony

KVOA is coming in fine after I rescaned it. I should have done this to begin with. I guess these things happen on these receivers now and then, every once in a while I lose the sound on all channels and have to unplug unit.

I just found this forum today and think I already have my questions answered. I'm on the NW side (LaCholla/Moore) and am able to get all of the digital stations except 9 and 13. I am guessing that since I get channel 4 I should be able to get 9 and 13 after the new transmitter antenna is working. -RP

Guys, where did KGUN go? I thought they were just moving the antenna temporarily, not turning it off! Last week I was getting 95% signal, now I'm getting 0%, zilch, nada! All my other channels are coming in the same as before, only KGUN is lost. My location is near the University... is anyone else having this problem?

Guys, where did KGUN go? I thought they were just moving the antenna temporarily, not turning it off! Last week I was getting 95% signal, now I'm getting 0%, zilch, nada! All my other channels are coming in the same as before, only KGUN is lost. My location is near the University... is anyone else having this problem?

This week it has been going in and out for me but I havent tried it today cause I am at work. I could see it yesterday decently (go out when I moved around my place).

I assume they (KGUN) is working on it. It was out for a while yesterday too and even when it is on I am losing it often. A special thanks to KGUN for doing this during the NBA finals.

Well, it seems to be back on for now. Which is good, because "Lost" comes on in 40 minutes :)

Keeping my fingers crossed that it will be HD though - last week Lost switch to SD 1/3 of the way into the show and never switched back :(

KGUN here. We are drilling and excavating new tower foundations right next to the transmitter building on Bigelow. There is so much vibration and dust at various times of the day that we have to sometimes power down the DTV transmitter. The analog transmitter is on the opposite side of the building and has not been affected by the construction.

This has not affected primetime DTV and most importantly the NBA Finals, due to the fact that we are only working during the day.

We expect to have the project completed July 20. Currently we have both the analog and DTV antennas on a temporary tower until the new KGUN tower is completed.

Thanks for your patience.

I must be in some kind of blind spot at Cortaro and Wade because I get all the other dig. stations except KGUN. Is that possibe? I have a clear view of the mountain. I'm using a CM 4228 with a rotator and a CM 7777 preamp. Is it possible the preamp is giving too strong of a signal for the Dish pvr921 receiver?

I didn't catch Lost the first time around, so I'm watching the repeats on Wednesday nights. Last night's episode had some kind of horrible video problem with it. It seemed that almost everything had green "crawlies". I noticed them a lot in night scenes, but even in daytime scenes there were green dots all over the place. During commercials I switched to other channels to see if it was my projector, and had no problems there. The only other time I have seen something like this was during Alias - sometimes in high-red scenes the red would almost "blow out" and start getting red or green crawlies.

So, I have a few questions
-Is anyone else seeing this?
-Assuming I'm not the only one, is this a national, or a local issue?
-What the heck was it, and will I be seeing more of it in the future?

I'm planning to order an upgrade from my current Comcast service (expanded basic) to digital basic with HDTV and a DVR. I believe that by doing so through Best Buy or Circuit City I will save $100 on my future bills. Is that the best deal out there? Also, is there anything I should know about their DVR equipment to ensure I'm getting Comcast's best stuff? (my concern is that there may be several "generations" of equipment floating around out there; some better than others....)

I plan to use the DVI output to feed digital direct to a 720p projector via an HDMI input. Thanks for any advice or "lessons learned" that anyone cares to share.I had the Mot 6412 for a few months thinking I may like the DVR capability. I finally returned it after exchanging it 4 times to try and fix an annoying audio dropout problem. It required that you change the channel up and down every time it happened, to get it to return. It can happen every 10 sec to several minutes or not at all, depending on channel and time of day(?).

Apparently, Motorola knows about it but only a few at Comcast will actually acknowledge the problem. I don't think it's a firmware issue, since I've heard that older units with the same new firmware work fine. I could never get them to give an older unit. All the newer ones had this problem for me.

Besides, their scheduling scheme never records properly and cuts off many times before the end. Not worth the extra $21/mo IMO, especially with only a couple of network HD channels. And how many times can you watch "Sunrise Earth" on DiscHD anyway? :rolleyes:

Last night's episode had some kind of horrible video problem with it. It seemed that almost everything had green "crawlies". ... The only other time I have seen something like this was during Alias - sometimes in high-red scenes the red would almost "blow out" and start getting red or green crawlies.I watched it all the way through and didn't see that at all. I'm SW of Silverbell and Camino del Cerro.

I have seen the crawlies you mentioned on Alias and also on other shows in high red areas. I am also curious as to what causes this. I am pretty sure I've seen it on all OTA station broadcasts as if it's a nationwide transmission issue. It's occured on both of my tuners. I don't recall if I've seen it on cable, but I most always use OTA.

I didn't catch Lost the first time around, so I'm watching the repeats on Wednesday nights. Last night's episode had some kind of horrible video problem with it. It seemed that almost everything had green "crawlies". I noticed them a lot in night scenes, but even in daytime scenes there were green dots all over the place. During commercials I switched to other channels to see if it was my projector, and had no problems there. The only other time I have seen something like this was during Alias - sometimes in high-red scenes the red would almost "blow out" and start getting red or green crawlies.

So, I have a few questions
-Is anyone else seeing this?
-Assuming I'm not the only one, is this a national, or a local issue?
-What the heck was it, and will I be seeing more of it in the future?

Hi, YES, I saw the same thing, thank you for posting and saving me the trouble of troubleshooting my system. It's good to know that I wasn't the only one seeing the green dots.

BTW, like you, I also missed Lost the first time around, so now I'm catching up. Best quote from last night: "Don't tell me what I can't do!" :)

Right now I'm watching the finals and no HD. I can't call the station right now because my phone isn't working. Can someone help me out? It's the last game of the season.

Nevermind it just switched over. Hopefully no more problems.

I watched it all the way through and didn't see that at all. I'm SW of Silverbell and Camino del Cerro.
I have seen the crawlies you mentioned on Alias and also on other shows in high red areas. I am also curious as to what causes this. I am pretty sure I've seen it on all OTA station broadcasts as if it's a nationwide transmission issue. It's occured on both of my tuners. I don't recall if I've seen it on cable, but I most always use OTA.Very odd - I can't imagine it is a reception issue. From what I've seen, bad reception on an MPEG stream usually gives you nothing at all, frozen screens, big blocks, or sometimes a weird phenomena where only the things that are moving get refreshed, while everything else is static with incorrect visual information.

However, what I saw was not reception related. I know what it wasn't, but I have no idea what it was :)

I have never seen the red crawlies on anything other than Alias. However, most of my HD watching is through COX (Discover HD, INHD 1 & 2, Universal HD). The only OTA HD I've watched regularly was 24 and Alias (and now Lost). Hi, YES, I saw the same thing, thank you for posting and saving me the trouble of troubleshooting my system. It's good to know that I wasn't the only one seeing the green dots.Good to know I'm not the only one. With Carey P's post, I was concerned that perhaps it was my tuner (a first generation Samsung). I talked to a co-worker who recorded it on his HD DirecTV TiVo, and he saw the same thing. I would imagine that the HD DirecTV TiVo is a much better piece of hardware than what I am using. It is a bit of a mystery that Carey P did not see it, though.

Hopefully next week will be better, we'll see.

...is a bit of a mystery that Carey P did not see it, though.
Well, let me clarify that I was watching it on my new 42" plasma not my 9ft screen. If it was a subtle effect, maybe I just didn't notice. Lost can be quite dark at times and with the high contrast of these new sets, maybe they got drowned out. Sometimes I'm just lazy and don't fire up the projector, especially for summer repeats. Though, like you, I am watching Lost for the first time :).

I understand Comcast serves mostly Marana/Oro Valley (aka, northwest Tucson). My questions is directed to anyone whose set, HD or otherwise, is capable of receiving "MTS stereo" broadcasts. Do you notice a lack of stereo on Turner Classic, Sci Fi, History and any other you know for certain broadcasts in stereo but does not come through you set as such? My HD set is hooked up through the Motorola box using digital connections. My standard set is hooked up without a box. Neither set will play the above-mentioned stations in stereo. The standard set's stereo light doesn't illuminate whenever I'm viewing those stations. Anyone know the story???

Watched a little bit of "Empire" tonight on KGUN, and I saw the dreaded green dots again! I tried using a different decoder to view the Lost episode I recorded from the other night and the dots are still there. Any new info on this issue? My relevant specs:

Antennas Direct DB4
Fusion HDTV 5 Lite
Radeon X700 with Cat 5.6
Nvidia 1.02.45 decoder
Windows MCE 2005

What a fun night trying to watch Lost last night. First, the green crawlies are still there. They weren't as prevalent, but I think that had more to do with the type of scenes being shown than any change by KGUN. Second, there was a slow changeover from SD to HD at somewhere between 9:20 and 9:30. Last, I lost signal around 9:30 and never got it back. Admittedly, I have a first gen tuner, so maybe other people got the signal. However, I'm guessing the loss of signal is related to the upgrade to the new tower.

I'm sure glad KGUN 9 is sticking to their guns on being broadcast over cable - otherwise I might have actually been able to watch the whole episode in HD. :mad:

Although I don't think the green dots/crawlies is an equipment thing, I'll add my specs here:
Samsung 1st gen tuner (set to 720p output)
Sharp XVZ-2000 DLP Front Projector (using Component connection)
bow tie antenna

Hi, just in case there are still any doubters, I've attached a cropped screenshot from last night's Lost showing the green dots. Now that I look at the freeze frame, I can see that some of the dots are red, too.

Turns out we had a defective decoder down at the station. It has been taken out of service. The replacement decoder was put online approx. halfway through Toy Story which aired tonight.

Also, we had a part fail on the DTV transmitter, unrelated to the work we are doing at the transmitter site. The failure causes the transmitter to shutdown by itself. The replacement should be in tomorrow.

Thanks for your patience and feedback.

Steve

Hey guys:

I just just moved to Tucson for a job and I'm currently staying in a hotel until I find what area I want to live in.

Part of that decision will be based on the quality of programming through cable I will be able to get. From what I understand, there's Cox and Comcast. I don't know the pros and cons of either of these cable providers.

This will probably determine which part of Tucson I choose to live in since Comcast and Cox are in different areas.

Thanks for your help! Jimmy

I have a D* DVR 921 Sat receiver and all is working as expected except Tucson KUAT-PBS OTA digitals show up in the on-screen channel guide without programs -- just "no information available" (except channel 6.2 which is same as analog OTA and SAT channel 6. I am particularly interested in the evening HD channel 6.1 programming so I can view the guide program info and set up HD program recording through the DVR onscreen guide. I get specific channel guide program listing info for all other OTA Tucson digital channels, just not the local OTA PBS digitals (except 6.2). I can tune into the KUAT digital channels through the guide, but no specific programs are shown in the guide for any of the KUAT digital subchannels except 6.2. Is this a D* issue, a DVR 921 issue, or a KUAT issue; e.g., does KUAT simply not provide D* with the channel 6.1, 6.3, 6.4 and 6.5 programming info? I'm very frustrated with this; can anyone help me sort this out?

I have a D* DVR 921 Sat receiver and all is working as expected except Tucson KUAT-PBS OTA digitals show up in the on-screen channel guide without programs -- just "no information available" (except channel 6.2 which is same as analog OTA and SAT channel 6. I am particularly interested in the evening HD channel 6.1 programming so I can view the guide program info and set up HD program recording through the DVR onscreen guide. I get specific channel guide program listing info for all other OTA Tucson digital channels, just not the local OTA PBS digitals (except 6.2). I can tune into the KUAT digital channels through the guide, but no specific programs are shown in the guide for any of the KUAT digital subchannels except 6.2. Is this a D* issue, a DVR 921 issue, or a KUAT issue; e.g., does KUAT simply not provide D* with the channel 6.1, 6.3, 6.4 and 6.5 programming info? I'm very frustrated with this; can anyone help me sort this out?
Dish Network currently only includes guide data on OTA channels that match the local channels they also transmit via satellite. There is program info (just current and next show I belive) embedded in the digital signal from KUAT, but Dish's OTA receivers currently ignore this data. Until Dish changes their software, you'll have to use TitanTV for guide info.
You might want to look at the 921 forum on DBSTALK for more info.

Thanks, Tortolita; that is just the info I have been looking for. Do you know if the new D* 942 resolves this OTA guide issue?
Thanks again for the quick feedback.

I don't think the 942 is any different at this point. Dish just needs to use the PSIP data embedded in the digital OTA signal. I know they have a new version of software out for the 921 that adds guide data for OTA, but I think it is just for the main local channel and not the sub channels like PBS kids and PBS U. This system won't let me put URLs in messages yet, but if you google "DBSTALK" you'll find forums specific to Dish and the 921, including discussions of the new software some units are getting.

Hey guys:

I just just moved to Tucson for a job and I'm currently staying in a hotel until I find what area I want to live in.

Part of that decision will be based on the quality of programming through cable I will be able to get. From what I understand, there's Cox and Comcast. I don't know the pros and cons of either of these cable providers.

This will probably determine which part of Tucson I choose to live in since Comcast and Cox are in different areas.

Thanks for your help! Jimmy

Well, Cox only has CBS and PBS, whereas Comcast has both of those and FOX, too. Dunno anything about their premium channels, though. Since I only watch (and record) local channels, I would go for Comcast if I had the choice. Good luck!

lazyn00b

Hey guys:

I just just moved to Tucson for a job and I'm currently staying in a hotel until I find what area I want to live in.

Part of that decision will be based on the quality of programming through cable I will be able to get. From what I understand, there's Cox and Comcast. I don't know the pros and cons of either of these cable providers.

This will probably determine which part of Tucson I choose to live in since Comcast and Cox are in different areas.

Thanks for your help! Jimmy


More important than which cable company, or satellite company, is your ability to receive local OTA signals (to get local station digital channels ), with an antenna. Since the cable companies only carry a few and the satellite companies carry none (digital or HD), you will need to get them OTA. In Tucson that can get a little tricky because of the terrain and becasue the transmitters are not all in one location.

Most of the transmitters are on Mt Bigelow just east of Mt Lemon. PBS is on Tumamoc Hill. If you have line of sight to these you will probably be OK. You need to be able to see the red lights on the towers at night. If not, it is hard to predict reception. In general, the Northwest parts of Tucson, Oro Valley and Marana do not have line of sight. SOme areas on the East side that are too close to the mountain have trouble too. You can see many postings on this forum from people in these areas struggling to get signals. That doesn't mean it is impossible, just not possible to predict without trying. I live in OV and can get everything. You have to be lucky and possibly experiment with antennas and placement. If you are thinking about living in these areas find a way to test before you commit or find someone that has a setup. In marginal areas you almost always need an outdoor antenna.

If you are a home theater or HD enthusiast you are very smart to ask these questions before you locate. At the extreme end of how do you test, you could buy an ATSC receiver and an antenna at stores where returns are easy (Walmart, Circuit City, etc). You can test on a regular TV as long as the receiver you buy has SD outputs. Just see if you can receive the digital signals, don't have to be HD. 4.1, 6.1, 9.1,13.1,58,1, etc. On antenna web you can find the channel numbers.

Also, Comcast's DVR can record HD and they will be adding OnDemand soon. I don't know if Cox has the same. If you call Cox or Comcast be very leary of the accuracy of their answers. For example, most Cox phone answerers will tell you they have all the locals in HD. Not true. Better to post questions here.

lazyn00b & babakanoosh:

Thank you both for your help and information. I did call both Comcast and Cox and the person I spoke with at Comcast was actually quite informative (and apparently fair) about the comparisons between the 2 cable companies. He told me that for internet service, they were pretty much the same and for cable service, they were almost equal. With Comcast, you would only need one DVR for both regular and high def programming whereas with Cox you would need apparently 2 boxes.

I have leaned towards Comcast at this point from what I've learned from this thread and from the guy at Comcast.

The one question I have remaining is the availability of OTA signals. Since I will have to do the apartment living for the first year I'm here, I don't know if I will have the ability to receive these. I don't know if I would need an antenna outside on the roof of the building or if I would be able to receive these with an intenna within the confines of an apartment. I am a true home theater and HD enthusiast but I guess for the first year, I will have to accept whatever the limitations of apartment living are here.

You guys have been really helpful and I appreciate it. I'm still trying to get used to the heat, traffic and housing costs (in no particular order) here in Tucson. It's been quite an experience. (I interviewed here for a job in January and had no idea what I was in store for with the heat LOL!)

Thanks again. Jimmy

JimmyDaves,

Comcast serves Pima County in the Northwest and this is mostly a marginal area for OTA.If you don't have line of sight to the towers, you will probably need an outdoor antenna. This means you will have to be careful selecting the direction your apartment faces. I don't know what the rules are for allowing outdoor antennas in apartments. The FCC has some pretty strong rules that allow them everywhere. If you need an outdoor in a marginal area you do not necessarily need it on a roof. Usually, height does not matter. You can put it on a patio. Again, the best way to know is to try it. I know people that bring a small TV, an antenna and an ATSC receiver with them when they looked for houses or apartments.

If you get Comcast you will be missing NBC and ABC HD (no Monday night football in HD). By the way, if you are going to test soon, ABC (KGUN) is rebuilding their tower so it may seem worse than usual. See postings on this forum. If you can get CBS, Fox and NBC, it is likely you will get ABC also.

Comcasts DVR is 2 tuner and HD so you can record and watch something else at the same time (or record 2 programs at the same time). From what I know, Comcast is better than Cox, if you have a choice. Again, I would focus on the OTA issues.

Regarding antennas... the best indoor one, by far, is the Zenith Silver Sensor. The best outdoor type is the 4 (or 8) bay bowtie with a screen behind it. Ther are a lot of really bad antennas around. Don't take the advice of sales people. Antenna (and receiver) cost is not an indication of quality. My advice is based on a lot of experience.

Good luck

"If you get Comcast you will be missing NBC and ABC HD (no Monday night football in HD)."

I'm so new to HD on cable so forgive me if this is a stupid question or has been answered long ago, but why aren't NBC and ABC broadcast in high definition from Comcast like CBS and FOX are? Does this mean I have to get an OTA antenna to bring in NBC/ABC?

I checked out some apartment complexes this weekend; all of which had Comcast and I still saw some antennas out on the balconies of some apartments. I believe some were DirecTV. I'm not quite sure why you would have DirecTV if you were able to get high def from Cable.

Happy 4th to everyone and again, thanks for all the help and advice.

Jimmy

With Comcast, you would only need one DVR for both regular and high def programming whereas with Cox you would need apparently 2 boxes.This is not true - the Cox HD DVR (I can't remember the model name/number offhand, but can get that for you if you need) can record all channels - it will record the analog channels, the digital channels, and the HD channels. It also has 2 tuners, which will let you record two shows, or record one while watching another channel live.
I'm so new to HD on cable so forgive me if this is a stupid question or has been answered long ago, but why aren't NBC and ABC broadcast in high definition from Comcast like CBS and FOX are? Does this mean I have to get an OTA antenna to bring in NBC/ABC?If you'll look back a few pages on this thread, you'll see a post that explains why ABC is not on Comcast. Boiled down, ABC wants to be compensated by the cable companies for the HD signal. I have not seen an official word on why NBC is not currently on Comcast (I had thought Comcast had everyone but ABC - shows what I know). But to answer your question, yes - even with Comcast, if you want ABC (and apparently NBC), you would need an OTA antenna, and a ATSC tuner (either external, or built into your HD TV).

I bought a Titan 7777 pre-amp and a cm-4228 UHF antenna after reading posts on this thread. Just for the heck of it I hooked up the new amp to my old antenna before installing the 4228. I was able to receive all the Tucson digitals just fine so that left me with a brand new 4228 I don't need. If anyone is interested in it let me know. -RP

All praise the great and mighty Steve. Watched Lost last night on KGUN. The green dots are indeed gone -- a much more enjoyable experience last night than it had the been for the two weeks before.

For me there were a few audio dropouts in the beginning and some fairly ugly SD to HD switchovers, but overall things went pretty well. Hopefully the rest of the showings of Lost will be at least this good.

"If you get Comcast you will be missing NBC and ABC HD (no Monday night football in HD)."

I'm so new to HD on cable so forgive me if this is a stupid question or has been answered long ago, but why aren't NBC and ABC broadcast in high definition from Comcast like CBS and FOX are? Does this mean I have to get an OTA antenna to bring in NBC/ABC?

I checked out some apartment complexes this weekend; all of which had Comcast and I still saw some antennas out on the balconies of some apartments. I believe some were DirecTV. I'm not quite sure why you would have DirecTV if you were able to get high def from Cable.

Happy 4th to everyone and again, thanks for all the help and advice.

Jimmy

You don't get locals in High Def at all on satellite.

The corporate owners of KGUN and KVOA have not come to terms with Comcast or Cox so no digital ABD or NBC and no outlook for when if ever. So, yes, you do need an OTA antenna for those. Furthermore, all those satellite dishes you see for Dish or DirecTV, they need an OTA antenna to get any of the locals in HD. The OTA receiver is bulit into their boxes. So if you see a dish at an apartment you are looking at, ask the occupant how they get OTA. If they have line of sight like I wrote in my last post, they may be getting it with a little indoor antenna that you cannot see.

I'm so new to HD on cable so forgive me if this is a stupid question or has been answered long ago, but why aren't NBC and ABC broadcast in high definition from Comcast like CBS and FOX are? Does this mean I have to get an OTA antenna to bring in NBC/ABC?

Jimmy,

In order for the cable companies to broadcast the signals, they need to have an agreement with the individual stations. The NBC and ABC affiliates in Tucson seem to be reluctant to make such agreements.

After buying a HDTV, I admit that I was a bit taken back when I called COX and learned that the only local affiliate that they provided (at that time) was PBS. Furthermore, in order to upgrade to their hi-def service, I would need to pay approximately $20-$25 more per month for my cable.

I put up a small antenna in my attic and receive all of the Tucson area digital stations. It takes a bit of extra button pushing to switch between the OTA digital stations and the analog cable stations and I don't get the cable-only hi-def programs (Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD, etc.). But so far I am quite happy with this arrangement.

If COX ever gets all the local digital stations and they keep their price competitive with satellite service, I may subscribe to their hi-def service. I'm not holding my breath.

phlewt (in Green Valley)

Hey, thanks guys for all the information. You've been really helpful and informative.

I think I've found the apartment I will move into and it has Comcast Cable. I have a couple of quick questions:

1. Do you guys who have Cable use a DVR from the cable company or did you go out and buy a different Brand Name DVR?

2. One of the apartment complexes I looked had "Qwest" (Quest)>? When I asked the office staff what Qwest was, they really didn't know and gave me a phone number to call. Although I'm not moving into this apartment complex, I was just curious what Qwest was?

3. I'm curious as to what display devices you guys have. I have a Toshiba 46" CRT RPTV on hold until I move because I got a great deal on it. However, since the new 1080P DLP sets are starting to arrive on the market, the prices on the 720P DLP sets are starting to drop. Any advice or comments? In my previous setup in Connecticut, I had a small 46" RPTV for basic day to day viewing (CNN, non Hi-Def) and then a front projector that I used for HDTV, DVD and XBox.

4. Where would be the best place to buy a Zenith Silver Sensor Antenna that Babakanoosh mentioned in a previous posting?

Thanks again! Jimmy

JimmyDaves,

Quest is a phone company, which offers DSL broadband through it's phone lines, at least, in Surprise that's what they offer, could be different here in Tucson. When I first moved to Surprise I had Quest as my phone company, but after some problems with them, and finding out that Cox had superior service, and cable modem, I switched to Cox, which I still have. When we move to Tucson next year, not sure which we are going to use, Cox or Comcast, for bandwidth. For the most part I am a Directv person, and receive all the locals via OTA HD, but that will change when we get to Tucson.

HTH,

Rich

JimmyD
Qwest is the local phone company, they also sell DirectV.. If you are getting Comcast internet service, you might want to consider some kind of VOIP phone service.. It works through your internet connection. I have vonage and pay 14.95 per month for 500 minutes of phone service, good anywhere in the us..

For all you Green Valley and Sahuarita folks who might be considering an outdoor antenna to pick up the Tucson OTA digital stations (especially the major network HD programs), here is my experience. I installed a simply five-foot long non-amplified UHF antenna on my roof upon a short pole and connected it via high quality coax cable to my DishNetwork DVR-921 sat receiver (the OTA input) and with the antenna direction set at about 12-13 degrees from north I get a very strong signal for all the Tucson digital stations broadcasting from Mt Bigalow (42 miles from Green Valley), and picture quality in both SD and HD is excellent.

[QUOTE=RJRSW]Ray,

I have Comcast "BASIC" cable service only, with no expanded basic or digital tiers of any kind! My cable TV service runs about $12 a month. I receive at no extra charge of any kind the following local digital stations as sub channels of 87 and 88:

88.2 (182) - KOLD-DT CBS
88.1 (183) - KMSB-DT FOX
87.1 (185) - KTTU-DT UPN
87.2 (190) - KUAT-DT PBS

Thats interesting, Ray. May I assume you get these 4 stations in HD as well? How did you swing that? According to Comcast, I must sign on for the Digital Classic tier. Tell me how to do what you've done & I'll switch.

[QUOTE=RJRSW]Ray,

I have Comcast "BASIC" cable service only, with no expanded basic or digital tiers of any kind! My cable TV service runs about $12 a month. I receive at no extra charge of any kind the following local digital stations as sub channels of 87 and 88:

You do not have to sign up for anything other than basic cable. You will have to have a TV capable of Cable QAM tuning or you will have to rent the HD capable cable set top box or DVR. I do not subscribe to any digital tier of any kind. You get all the local channels they carry in both SD and HD. You are not required to subscribe to any digital tier of any kind. I have two TVs that tune in the PBS, Fox and CBS HD shows with no cable box and just basic service. I can even record HD directly from the sony TV from the built in digital cable tuner to my JVC D-VHS recorder via firewire.

Please read the following quote:

From the March/April 2003 issue of The Perfect Vision, page 33:

"The FCC requires these local [HDTV] digital channels to be part of 'basic service,' the lowest-price tier of service offered by the cable company (and the only one that's regulated by law), though it doesn't mandate that signals be sent out unencrypted. So if all you want is to see is every local [HDTV] digital broadcast channel offered by your cable company today, you can receive them at the cost of 'basic service' and an HD-box rental..."

"What the cable companies' sales people don't always tell you is that you don't need to order the expensive 'digital packages' to get premium HD channels. A law called the 1992 Cable Act has a provision in it that took effect last October. Called the 'buy through' provision, it basically says that if you have "basic service" you cannot be required to get a higher tier of service...to receive a premium HD channel such as HBO-HD."

"If the customer service person says you must get a digital tier of service to get HDTV, insist on speaking to a supervisor."

If anyone is interested this is a follow up to my last posting. The following is an exact quote from Comcast's own website HDTV information page near the bottom ( http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot4PageOne.asp )

"HD programming from ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS is available in selected areas. Comparative claims based upon areas where HDTV from Comcast is available. To receive HD features and benefits an HD television (not provided), HD box and remote control is required. Advertised channels/stations generally provide a mix of HD and non-HD programming. HD programming is limited to the programming provided to Comcast in HDTV format by the programming provider. Programming and charges subject to change. Basic service subscription is required to receive HDTV and premium HDTV channel requires subscription to underlying premium channel. "

You can subscribe to HD movie channels and premium channels alacarte and you are not required to subscribe to anything other then basic cable service. This is a FCC mandate and cable companies must follow FCC rules to maintain their license. I had the Starz HD channel for a while and all they added was the exact charge for Starz.

[QUOTE=RJRSW]
According to Comcast, I must sign on for the Digital Classic tier. Tell me how to do what you've done & I'll switch.Just an additional note so there's no confusion here...

If you don't have a QAM tuner in your TV or some other separate tuner, and use a Comcast Digital box instead, you do indeed have to subscribe to Digital Classic at a minimum to get HD. But that's only because you need at least Digital Classic to use the box to receive digital channels in the first place. It has nothing to do with the "turning on" of the HD channels. They are already present in the most basic cable service as stated.

[QUOTE=OLDOV]Just an additional note so there's no confusion here...

If you don't have a QAM tuner in your TV or some other separate tuner, and use a Comcast Digital box instead, you do indeed have to subscribe to Digital Classic at a minimum to get HD. But that's only because you need at least Digital Classic to use the box to receive digital channels in the first place. It has nothing to do with the "turning on" of the HD channels. They are already present in the most basic cable service as stated.

I have the dual tuner Comcast Motorola PVR for $9.95 a month plus limited digital for $3.20 and receive and record the PBSHD, CBSHD and FOXHD channels. I do not subscribe to the Digital Classic tier. My monthly billing is as follows:

(You can view the attached scan of actual bill from May 2005 by clicking on the attachment link)

Limited Basic $12.95
DVR with HD 9.95
Limited Digital 3.20
Total Monthly Bill $26.10

If I got rid of the DVR box and just used the built in QAM tuners I would still receive the same channels but my total monthly bill would only be $12.95 as you only have to have the limited digital if you have a set top box.

[QUOTE=OLDOV]Just an additional note so there's no confusion here...

If you don't have a QAM tuner in your TV or some other separate tuner, and use a Comcast Digital box instead, you do indeed have to subscribe to Digital Classic at a minimum to get HD. But that's only because you need at least Digital Classic to use the box to receive digital channels in the first place. It has nothing to do with the "turning on" of the HD channels. They are already present in the most basic cable service as stated.

Not true.. I have limited basic for 12.95 and an stb for 5.00 per month.. I get the local digital feeds and for some reason discovery hd.. I called about inhd and was told i have to get a digital plan for that..

[QUOTE=Carey P]

Not true.. I have limited basic for 12.95 and an stb for 5.00 per month.. I get the local digital feeds and for some reason discovery hd.. I called about inhd and was told i have to get a digital plan for that..

I used to get the same deal you have listed but when I switched from the basic HD STB to the dual tuner HD PVR STB they changed the fee from $5 to $9.95 and then they added the Limited Digital fee of $3.20 which adds nothing except more money in their pocket. What channel are you getting the Discovery HD on? They originally had it free but then added it to a higher digital tier and I no longer get it. The limited digital fee includes no extra digital channels, what a rip.

Hi everyone,

Just found this forum. I am brand new to HDTV but have been looking at them for some time. My old 27" television died this past week and was the final motivation needed to jump into the fray.

Got a great deal on a Samsung DLP 5063. So far, I am just using it with Cox Digital cable and Tivo, as well as DVDs. I will be moving into HD programming in the next week or so, but had a get the TV in place first.

Ok you guys. I just noticed all the responses, as the forum seems to no longer send emails on replies.

Apparently, I may have been scammed by Comcast, I don't know. I do know I have their hi-speed internet and I already get preferred basic. Maybe that's why they insist on digital classic? Basically $21 more, including the $9.95 fee for the box. However, I did get INHD, Discovery, Etc.

I'll have to speak to them about this limited digital once they fix their audio dropout problem. That may be a while anyway. Thanks for the info!

Hi,

I've read through the posts concerning the antenna locations. As I understand it, most towers are on Mt. Bieglow and that is somewhat blocked by Mt. Lemmon. In any case, I assume I want to get an outdoor bowtie with a reflector back and fish around for a location, starting with a generally eastern direction from the Rancho Vistoso area. Is this correct?

To the extent possible, I would like to keep peace with the HOA and not put up a rotator. I plan to get a couple of diplexers to share one of the DirecTV down cables with the UHF signal. Antenna suggestions are welcome of course.

I have just ordered my plasma display and expect it next week. Amazon has a very competitive price on the Panasonic TH-50PX50U.

Hope to be joining you all soon and be able to contribute.

John

Hi,

I've read through the posts concerning the antenna locations. As I understand it, most towers are on Mt. Bieglow and that is somewhat blocked by Mt. Lemmon. In any case, I assume I want to get an outdoor bowtie with a reflector back and fish around for a location, starting with a generally eastern direction from the Rancho Vistoso area. Is this correct?

To the extent possible, I would like to keep peace with the HOA and not put up a rotator. I plan to get a couple of diplexers to share one of the DirecTV down cables with the UHF signal. Antenna suggestions are welcome of course.

I have just ordered my plasma display and expect it next week. Amazon has a very competitive price on the Panasonic TH-50PX50U.

Hope to be joining you all soon and be able to contribute.

John

The Rancho Vistoso area is usually very bad for receiving OTA signals from Mt Bigelow or Tumamoc Hill. Don't be surprised if you can't get them at all. I have actually heard of people near there pulling in the Phoenix stations. There are parts of OV where you can but they are just fortunate coincidences of how the signals bounce off the terrain. I live in OV near Tangerine and La Cholla and get them all. Look at antennaweb.org to get the angles from your address. I think it will be SSE from you. Regarding antennas, the kind you describe is the best. Look at the Channel Master 4221/3021. You can buy that at ACE Hardware. They have their own number for it and they have to order it but it is fast. I think Winegard makes that type also. Don't buy a Turk. Diplexers can be a problem if your signal levels are low. Be aware ABC, KGUN, is working on their antenna so it may be hard to get right now under any conditions.

As I mentioned in a previous message, I am new to all of this HD world. I just got off the phone with Cox and have decided that they are not an option at all. The price for their combo HD box and DVR is quite good comared to what I am paying Tivo, but their lack of programming, and not being able to tell me when they are going to add more is a real negative against them. According to their tech support guy, their box does not have the option to pick up off the air broadcasts, can someone who has their box confirm this for me?

I may also get an off the air tuner, my set does not have one, but they seem rather pricey in the grand scheme of things.

I need to do something though, SD signals are all but unwatchable with the Samsung 50" DLP set I just bought.

Yep, no OTA out of Cox box. The least expesive way to go to an OTA tuner is to find a directv or dish HD box that has ATSC tuner. I have and use a Hughs although I no longer use directv.

My son has cox with the HD DVR and he does get the local CBS KOLD Channel HD digital channel signal. I believe it is channel 713 on cox.

I may also get an off the air tuner, my set does not have one, but they seem rather pricey in the grand scheme of things.

What do you consider "pricey"? I have a Samsung SIR-T351 ATSC tuner -- they can be had for $100-150 on eBay. Alternatively, you could go to Walmart and pick up the USD tuner (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2598451) for approx $200.

babakanoosh,

Thanks for the warning - hope I am lucky in RV :) I have a clear shot north so maybe PHX?

I appreciate the Ace Hardware tip for the antenna - never would have looked there but will do. I'll be crawling around the roof next week!

I just checked ebay and it looks like there are a lot of the old Voom boxes out there being sold for their OTA abilities. Seem to be in the $40 price range. I think I will pick one of those up.

I've got a cm-4228 brand new in the box that I don't need. I'll sell it for $40, I'm near Moore and LaCholla. If you are interested e-mail me. -RP

My wife sort of made my mind up for me. She is a big fan of our Tivo box, and since they don't offer a HD non-direct tv unit yet, we have decided to go with the Cox DVR setup. Got everything up and running this afternoon.

Cox just needs to get a lot more channels up and running.

scottsfj40,

No sure what you mean? Directv offers a STB that has HD Directv, and OTA combined, the last time I checked, if that is what you are saying. I have a D* STB, that offers HD OTA, and it works wonderfully, albeit in Surprise.

Regards,

Rich

I know that Direct TV had a Tivo box that does HD, but I don't have Direct TV. Tivo told me today that they are not planning on having a HD, non-direct TV box until sometime next year.

KGUN here. We are drilling and excavating new tower foundations right next to the transmitter building on Bigelow. There is so much vibration and dust at various times of the day that we have to sometimes power down the DTV transmitter. The analog transmitter is on the opposite side of the building and has not been affected by the construction.

This has not affected primetime DTV and most importantly the NBA Finals, due to the fact that we are only working during the day.

We expect to have the project completed July 20. Currently we have both the analog and DTV antennas on a temporary tower until the new KGUN tower is completed.

Thanks for your patience.

Cesomerville, how is the project coming along?

This morning we cutover to the new ch.9 antenna on the new tower. Shooting for Monday or Tuesday to cutover the new DTV antenna on the new tower.

Don't know if anyone has noticed but I was skimming through the locals last night and saw that KWBA(58-1) was broadcasting a show in HD. Hopefully the UPN affiliate is close to broadcasting in HD also.

This is a question mainly for those that are on the Cox HD service.

Do you find yourself just not watching NBC, ABC and FOX now that you have HD? I am still watching a few shows on CBS, I just wish that they would start broadcasting Letterman in HD, but I have not really watched any of the shows I normally would on the other channels. Granted, it might be the newness of having HD, but I can't help but believe that those stations that don't have their broadcasts on Cox HD are losing atleast some viewers. Not to mention that they are viewers that can afford HD sets, thus those that could afford what they are advertising.

This is a question mainly for those that are on the Cox HD service.

Do you find yourself just not watching NBC, ABC and FOX now that you have HD? I am still watching a few shows on CBS, I just wish that they would start broadcasting Letterman in HD, but I have not really watched any of the shows I normally would on the other channels. Granted, it might be the newness of having HD, but I can't help but believe that those stations that don't have their broadcasts on Cox HD are losing atleast some viewers. Not to mention that they are viewers that can afford HD sets, thus those that could afford what they are advertising.

I'm on Comcast but I find myself doing the same thing. I mainly watch the primetime CBS HD shows, the FOX HD shows and the PBS HD shows. I almost never find myself watching the ABC or NBC network shows at all anymore. I always thought the TV stations goal was to maximize the number of viewers to increase their revenues. It doesn't make since if the cable companies are willing to carry their HD digital signal free of charge that they don't do it. I am unable to pick up their OTA digital signals from my Northwest location and I am certainly not going to watch an analog broadcast when I can watch a HD broadcast on another channel.

Cox doesn't even have FOX. I wish it did though. There are a few shows on FOX that I enjoy, but probably won't be watching them if I have anything at all to watch on HD.

This morning we cutover to the new ch.9 antenna on the new tower. Shooting for Monday or Tuesday to cutover the new DTV antenna on the new tower.

Well, that would be good news if I could recieve your HD programming. You really need to get on Cox and Comcast. I am sure that I am not the only viewer that is watching a lot more programming on channel 13 than I used to.

I was very interested in RJRSW's post about "limited digital" service through Comcast. I live in town, so I called up Cox and tried to get some information about their version of the service. I was told that they don't have such a service and I believe that may be the case, but I'm an HDTV/Digital novice, so I thought I should run their story past you guys. According to them, they only rebroadcast the local digital signals on their higher bandwidth digital service (700 or 800 range digital channels), so in order to get them you'd still have to subscribe to the digital tier. What does the 1992 Cable act really require? Is Cox required to provide the local digital channels that they rebroadcast as part of their basic(analog) service? Or are they simply required to offer them at the lowest price for the tier that they are rebroadcast over?

I was very interested in RJRSW's post about "limited digital" service through Comcast. I live in town, so I called up Cox and tried to get some information about their version of the service. I was told that they don't have such a service and I believe that may be the case, but I'm an HDTV/Digital novice, so I thought I should run their story past you guys. According to them, they only rebroadcast the local digital signals on their higher bandwidth digital service (700 or 800 range digital channels), so in order to get them you'd still have to subscribe to the digital tier. What does the 1992 Cable act really require? Is Cox required to provide the local digital channels that they rebroadcast as part of their basic(analog) service? Or are they simply required to offer them at the lowest price for the tier that they are rebroadcast over?

Dave, the local channels that Cox (and Comcast I suppose) have are carried in the clear. If you have a QAM-capable tuner in your TV, in a set-top box, or a QAM-capable PC HDTV tuner, you can reiceive these channels for free, if you already have basic (analog) service. If you check the thread, someone listed the exact channels that they're on in Tucson, but you should just be able to scan for them with your QAM tuner. Cox will not give you an HD box without a subscription to digital service, but as far as I know, this is in compliance with the law.

For what it's worth, this blows a big hole in the stupid argument that some channel owners put up over wanting money to let the cable company carry their signal. Cable companies are required to provide the local digital channels (that they carry) in the clear, with no encryption, and available with the lowest-priced service option. They make no money off of people who get these channels, so why should they pay someone else to carry them? The channels are the ones who lose, since many of us refuse to watch ugly analog channels, and are completely incapable of receiving digital OTA.

Dave, the local channels that Cox (and Comcast I suppose) have are carried in the clear. If you have a QAM-capable tuner in your TV, in a set-top box, or a QAM-capable PC HDTV tuner, you can reiceive these channels for free, if you already have basic (analog) service. If you check the thread, someone listed the exact channels that they're on in Tucson, but you should just be able to scan for them with your QAM tuner. Cox will not give you an HD box without a subscription to digital service, but as far as I know, this is in compliance with the law.

For what it's worth, this blows a big hole in the stupid argument that some channel owners put up over wanting money to let the cable company carry their signal. Cable companies are required to provide the local digital channels (that they carry) in the clear, with no encryption, and available with the lowest-priced service option. They make no money off of people who get these channels, so why should they pay someone else to carry them? The channels are the ones who lose, since many of us refuse to watch ugly analog channels, and are completely incapable of receiving digital OTA.

coyoteaz you hit the nail on the head, I agree 100%.