All of you are right on about the cable companies not carrying the HD/Digital signals. I understand the stations want to be paid but they broadcast it free anyway OTA, and they are required to provide the analog free to cable. I just cannot understand their logic to offend/lose customers. BTW, I have read estimates that well over 90% of the US can receive digital OTA anyway. Unfortunately here in Tucson there are a lot of terrain issues due to the fact that years ago the towers were not allowed to be put on Mt Lemon.

I have spoken/written to all of the local station managers and even some at the networks. My assessment is some of these are just holdouts that still resent the FCC mandates from years ago and are trying to resurrect the issue through this. The local managers have no say in any negotiations, it is all at the corporate owners level, including the cable companies. I assume the local HDs on cable now are not being paid by the cable cos but there are still issues of commercial insertion. The FCC has also mandated that new TV's have built in ATSC (digital) tuners. So with a little incomvenience, antenna and non-integrated cable/OTA, over 90% of the country can tell these local stations to shove it.

An interesting point in time comes a few years from now (???) when the analog frequencies for TV will be eliminated. What then??

That 90% isn't even close to a valid number. There are large numbers of apartment dwellers (such as myself) who can't put up an outdoor antenna, and face the wrong way or have too much multipath for an indoor antenna. Here in Phoenix, we also have some geographical issues, though not on as large of a scale as Tucson does. Luckily, Cox carries all 6 local HD channels in the clear, so it's not a big deal for those of us who want to watch.

I, for one, can't wait till analog goes away. Channels 2-75 on cable could hold another 150 HD channels, or even better, lots of HD VOD.

[QUOTE=RJRSW][QUOTE=OLDOV]

You do not have to sign up for anything other than basic cable. You will have to have a TV capable of Cable QAM tuning or you will have to rent the HD capable cable set top box or DVR.

Well, I thought I knew a few things until QAM appeared. Is that the same as a cable card (sets that substitute a credit card-like device that, once properly encoded, is slipped into a slot in the front of the set & receives the same as a cable box would)? Are all QAM-equipped sets either "enhanced" or high-def? Are there any QAM-equipped 4.3 display-only available that you know of? I would like to be able to receive the digital signal in sets other than my theater system through cable without the need for the cable box once the broadcasters shut down analog transmissions.

Hopefully the UPN affiliate is close to broadcasting in HD also.
They (KTVK, Phoenix) are working on it now. Expect to see UPN-HD real soon. :)

As a soon-to-be HD-er in Northwest Tucson (Rancho Vistoso), I did a plot from my location to Mount Bigelow. The new and free Google Earth is great for this. There is no way to see the broadcast towers from here- period. While some fiddling may get a reflected path signal, I don't know how reliable it will be.

So I called D*'s HDTV number. After explaining my problem, they said the NY/LA channels required waivers from the big 4. The best part is D* will generate the waiver requests and have them sent to me. Once received, D* will turn on the service for me. My concern is what happens if there is one hold-out? Stay tuned.

The next best approach would be for the big 4 to be on basic cable, without seeking so-called compensation, as has been discussed. Alternatively, they could put repeaters at a suitable location for the growing NW.

I can appreciate the early adopters on this list and what they must have gone through :)

As a soon-to-be HD-er in Northwest Tucson (Rancho Vistoso), I did a plot from my location to Mount Bigelow. The new and free Google Earth is great for this. There is no way to see the broadcast towers from here- period. While some fiddling may get a reflected path signal, I don't know how reliable it will be.

So I called D*'s HDTV number. After explaining my problem, they said the NY/LA channels required waivers from the big 4. The best part is D* will generate the waiver requests and have them sent to me. Once received, D* will turn on the service for me. My concern is what happens if there is one hold-out? Stay tuned.

The next best approach would be for the big 4 to be on basic cable, without seeking so-called compensation, as has been discussed. Alternatively, they could put repeaters at a suitable location for the growing NW.

I can appreciate the early adopters on this list and what they must have gone through :)

Waivers don't work anymore. The policies on this changed a few months ago, so only people who had waivers before are able to keep their channels, but no new ones will be activated. Only people in markets with stations owned and operated by the network in question are eligible to receive distant HD locals. This means that those of us in Phoenix can get FOX from LA, but Tucsonians are out of luck. DTV repeaters aren't likely to show up anywhere till the analog shut-off gets closer, due to the costs involved, and the relatively small number of DTV users. At this point, until the cable companies and station owners get their acts together, you can forget getting HD networks in NW Tucson, unless maybe you will qualify for the Phoenix HD local spot beam when it goes live. Of course, you could always change your D* service address to your "summer home" in NYC or LA, and just conveniently forget to switch it back.

Thanks for your reply, coyoteaz . I took a look at the previous posts in the forum and I found a list of the Comcast channels, but no list for Cox. Anyway, I don't have a QAM tuner in my Samsung HLP4667W. Does anyone have a suggestion for a STB?

coyoteaz,

Thought it sounded too good to be true :(

Actually, I called D* and they indicated they would get waivers for me, of course, they could have been throwing BS at me. I'm going to call them tommorrow, and see what's going on, but I am sure you are correct.

Regards,

Rich

A new guy to add to the Tucson folks. I'm looking at a house in the deep southwest. It is 8 miles west of 19 on Valencia. Anybody live near this area that can tell me what I'll get OTA???? I will be in an area served by Comcast, so I'll get one more channel than Cox, but I prefer to keep my 942 from Dish. It's served me well in Las Vegas.

A new guy to add to the Tucson folks. I'm looking at a house in the deep southwest. It is 8 miles west of 19 on Valencia. Anybody live near this area that can tell me what I'll get OTA???? I will be in an area served by Comcast, so I'll get one more channel than Cox, but I prefer to keep my 942 from Dish. It's served me well in Las Vegas.

I'm in Midvale park which is just west of I-19 and north of Valencia. It appears this is a "sweet" spot for OTA. Get them all with an indoor antenna. You should be ok for reception.

First, an apology for an off-topic post but I want to find someone in the Tucson area to converge and adjust the raster on my Mits 65905 HD set. If anyone know of someone familiar with this set (I have the factory service manuals), please let me know. I don't need an ISF calibration since I'm going to replace the set in a short while. Also, I'd love to know how to get rid of something like then when I replace it - suggestions appreciated.

Again - apologies for off-topic post.
Jim

For what it's worth, this blows a big hole in the stupid argument that some channel owners put up over wanting money to let the cable company carry their signal. Cable companies are required to provide the local digital channels (that they carry) in the clear, with no encryption, and available with the lowest-priced service option. They make no money off of people who get these channels, so why should they pay someone else to carry them? The channels are the ones who lose, since many of us refuse to watch ugly analog channels, and are completely incapable of receiving digital OTA.

You are absolutely right about it being the local channels that are going to lose out. I am watching a lot more PBS than I ever have in the past. :-)

Ok, well I've narrowed it down to two apartment complexes here in tucson to move into by August 1st. I'm new to Tucson and wanted to make sure that I got into the best location for cable, OTA, Hi Def.

First location - 1 mile east of craycroft and grant. nice enough apartment. balcony faces ENE - have an awesome view of the mountains. COX Cable here.

Second location - NE corner of Swan and Skyline. nice enough apartment. balcony faces ESE. No view of anything. COMCAST Cable here. (has a "chiller" system for airconditioning-not sure about that; but all utilities are paid for).

Let me know what you guys think. I have to make a decision in the next day or two which one to accept and either apartment is acceptable (pros and cons seem to even out).

AZRP,

Have you found a buyer for that CM 4228?
If not, I will take it.

coyoteaz,

Thought it sounded too good to be true :(

waivers still work.. If they grant them you should get LA/NY feeds..

Thanks, bigbw. I thought I'd let the process run its course to see what happens.

Thanks, bigbw. I thought I'd let the process run its course to see what happens.

I got all four in about 3 weeks.. I about died when I checked one day and they were there.. That was last OCT..

AZRP,

Have you found a buyer for that CM 4228?
If not, I will take it.
The antenna sold. -RP

Babakanoosh:

Yes our signal is free.......for YOU.....over the air. That does NOT give anyone else permission to steal it, then sell it to you. There are things called copywrite laws in this country.

Ray Depa
GM KGUN-TV

Babakanoosh:

Yes our signal is free.......for YOU.....over the air. That does NOT give anyone else permission to steal it, then sell it to you. There are things called copywrite laws in this country.

Ray Depa
GM KGUN-TV

Ray,
Yes, but that is not my point. Pointing to that issue now to me is just a frustration with the FCC "must carry" mandate for the analog signals.

What I really don't get is what are stations gaining now from holding out on digital signals. I am guessing the cost to you to do this would be very minimal. By doing it you would gain/keep customers. By not doing it you are losing customers. I am trying, but I just don't get it.

BTW, do you know when your signal will be back to full power on the new tower? I can't get it in your temporary configuration, used to be just fine.

Babakanoosh:

Yes our signal is free.......for YOU.....over the air. That does NOT give anyone else permission to steal it, then sell it to you. There are things called copywrite laws in this country.

Ray Depa
GM KGUN-TV

That is a real stretch. Copyright laws apply to intelectual property and I think it is a real stretch to say that they would apply to your signal. For that matter, the network would own the copyright to the network provided programming. You would own the copyright to the locally originated stuff such as the news.

In any case, if the cable company would not be charging me any more to provide your signal, how do you feel that they would be stealing your property and then selling it? If you turned it on today, my cable bill would be the same. Channel 13 seems to understand this, as do other affiliates in many other markets.

As mentioned already, the net effect of your decision is that many people are simply not going to watch your programming. There are other HD alternatives out there, and even if I enjoy some of the programming you provide, I enjoy the HD that I do get more.

I am sorry that KGUN feels the way it does.

[
BTW, do you know when your signal will be back to full power on the new tower? I can't get it in your temporary configuration, used to be just fine.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't get KGUN on monday but tuesday afternoon it was coming in very strong. I guess they are back at full power now. -RP

I just found this Tucson thread, and am a new HDTV (monitor) owner. I am currently deciding whether to rent the Comcast HD box at $5/month ( only have regular cable, not digital), or to go with a STB. I was interested in either the LG 4200a which has QAM or the US Digital from Wal-Mart which is just OTA.

From reading this these posts, it appears ABC and NBC do not broadcast HD clear over Comcast because they do not have an agreement for one reason or another. So I'm wondering if having a receiver with QAM is worth it, since I would need an antenna anyhow to pickup two more channels, which is amounts to nearly half of the available HD channels.

What kind of HD tuners are other people using?

-- Scott

Ok, well I've narrowed it down to two apartment complexes here in tucson to move into by August 1st. I'm new to Tucson and wanted to make sure that I got into the best location for cable, OTA, Hi Def.

First location - 1 mile east of craycroft and grant. nice enough apartment. balcony faces ENE - have an awesome view of the mountains. COX Cable here.

Second location - NE corner of Swan and Skyline. nice enough apartment. balcony faces ESE. No view of anything. COMCAST Cable here. (has a "chiller" system for airconditioning-not sure about that; but all utilities are paid for).

Let me know what you guys think. I have to make a decision in the next day or two which one to accept and either apartment is acceptable (pros and cons seem to even out).

Ok, I think the only thing that matters in the whole post is that the second apartment has swamp coolers instead of regular AC. Doesn't matter if it's HiDef if your sweating your behind off.

Most of the broadcasts are from Bigalow to the north. I live currently in an apartment around 22nd/Kolb. On the bottom floor of 3, on the south side. I'm able to pick up weak signals of all but 58. They cut out sometimes when people walk around the apt. This is with one of those indoor antennas from best buy. Hopefully when my house is finished I'll get better reception there.

Although you probably already made your decision.

I, for one, can't wait till analog goes away. Channels 2-75 on cable could hold another 150 HD channels, or even better, lots of HD VOD.


I can...

I have a projector, and the analog stations look far better than the SD digital ones. The digital channels are compressed to a quality level where they look great on a 19" TV, OK on a 27" TV, and crap at 90".

I scale and de-interlace the analogs, and they look much better than the digitals scaled.

The fact that they're simulcasting ALL the analogs in the 800s now means they have the BW to do it... they just won't.

Toasty:

Thanks for your input. I have to agree with your assessment. Even though I like the "apartment" better Skyline/Swan, I feel that the Craycroft/Grant location is better for me. Even though I had a preference for Comcast when I started my search, I feel that I could be satisfied with Cox.

Now I just have to find a reasonably priced HDTV. I had ordered a 46" Toshiba CRT RPTV almost 2 months ago, but couldn't have it delivered to the corporate apartment where I was staying, so long story>short story, I cancelled the order.

I'm looking at the Toshiba 720P DLP RPTV's now. The prices seem to be coming down and I've heard good reviews about them (and they don't weigh a ton). My new apartment is going to be small and I thought about going with the 46", but I have to admit the 52" and 62" look very tempting. Any thoughts?

Thanks again! Jimmy

Toasty:

Thanks for your input. I have to agree with your assessment. Even though I like the "apartment" better Skyline/Swan, I feel that the Craycroft/Grant location is better for me. Even though I had a preference for Comcast when I started my search, I feel that I could be satisfied with Cox.

Now I just have to find a reasonably priced HDTV. I had ordered a 46" Toshiba CRT RPTV almost 2 months ago, but couldn't have it delivered to the corporate apartment where I was staying, so long story>short story, I cancelled the order.

I'm looking at the Toshiba 720P DLP RPTV's now. The prices seem to be coming down and I've heard good reviews about them (and they don't weigh a ton). My new apartment is going to be small and I thought about going with the 46", but I have to admit the 52" and 62" look very tempting. Any thoughts?

Thanks again! Jimmy

Hmmm.... small apartment... 52" or 62" screen.... cable input.... SD channels.... sounds like a recipe for disaster..... hmmmm :)

Tony

Tony:

There's also high definition channels, DVD and XBox. still a recipe for disaster?

That answer will come from you when you actually watch some SD programming from cable. So time will tell :)

Tony

Tony:

I'm touched by the positive tone of your responses. Since you feel that I'm headed in the same direction as the Titanic and unaware of those nasty icebergs that loom in the distance, maybe you could suggest a something that I might be happy with and save me from my miserable existence. :)

Forgive me if this has been answered already: I notice that Cox cable's guide shows the analog channels in the 800 series, implying that they are all digital SD versions of the regular channels. Can we tune these in? I don't seem to be able to. I think the digital channels (even those in SD) look better than the analog ones. I use the 8300HD box with the HDMI output, and have good quality on the analog, but superb quality on the digital ones.

Can anybody tell me if KGUN is broadcasting OTA digital? Last tuesday I was getting a very strong signal but since then I haven't been able to pick it up. -RP

I still pick up KGUN 9 just fine, but I dont watch it much

Hey guys,

Any of you have discrete on/off IR codes (CCF) for the 3250HD stb? Thanks.

KGUN doesn't seem to want me as a viewer since they won't allow cable to send me their signal, so I couldn't tell you if they are broadcasting or not, I simply don't watch anything they have to offer.

Hi All - Just moved to Tucson the end of July, which is while I haven't changed my username yet. I've been monitoring the Tucson Local HDTV Info forum for awhile & wanted to add my 2 cents worth on a couple of areas -
"Hmmm.... small apartment... 52" or 62" screen.... cable input.... SD channels.... sounds like a recipe for disaster..."
- Naw! I have a 57" Sony Rear Projection HDTV. I had a big living room in my house in Vegas & was worried how it would be in the 1000 sq. ft. townhouse I rented here. It's great! My chair is about 8' away from the TV & HD looks great! It looks "lifesize" now. In my old house my chair was 12'+ away which I'd always read was the minimal recommended distance.

- OTA: I rented in the Country Club / Ft. Lowell area. In Vergas I had a mid-range directional roof mounted antenna & got terriffic digital OTA reception. Here I dug out my RCA amplified indoor antenna, and get mixed reception. With the Sony integrated HD tuner I only get 4.1 and 27.1, plus a few analog channels. Strange thing is I have a Fusion3 HD tuner in my PC, connected with a splitter cable from the indoor antenna & get much better reception with that! With Fusion I get all the channel 6 sub channel digital stations, plus 9.1, 11.1, 13.1, & 18.1, in addition to the channels the Sony receives. And the newer Fusion5 is supposed to have a better tuner. Reception power on some channels is only 60-80%, but watchable.
I've ordered a outdoor antenna from summitsource.com which will hopefully boost reception enough for the Sony while keeping my landord happy. The antenna is only 7"x14" by 1" thick, but uses non-shielded coax cable strung out on the roof to boost reception. Hopefully that will do it. I'm Cox's service area & just don't watch enough TV to justify their minimal package. Besides, I'm hooked on HD / digital TV.

Best to All.

Hi All - Just moved to Tucson the end of July

Welcome to the neighborhood.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

Thanks! I forgot to mention that all the members here on the Tucson forum seem really friendly & helpful, which is a reflection of the wonderful Tucson community. I'm just amazed at how much friendlier & easy-going the people are here, especially compared to Las Vegas.

People actually stop to let you into traffic here??? Try pulling out in front of someone in Las Vegas and they're run you over!

- OTA: I rented in the Country Club / Ft. Lowell area. In Vergas I had a mid-range directional roof mounted antenna & got terriffic digital OTA reception. Here I dug out my RCA amplified indoor antenna, and get mixed reception. With the Sony integrated HD tuner I only get 4.1 and 27.1, plus a few analog channels.

Welcome to Tucson, Dave.

From the description of your location, I would think you ought to get excellent reception OTA. Mt. Bigelow should be approximately NE from your location. After dark, you might look up in the Catalina mountains and see if you can spot the flashing red lights on the TV transmission towers of Mt. Bigelow. If so, try to point your antenna that direction and check your reception.

Welcome to Tucson, Dave.

From the description of your location, I would think you ought to get excellent reception OTA. Mt. Bigelow should be approximately NE from your location. After dark, you might look up in the Catalina mountains and see if you can spot the flashing red lights on the TV transmission towers of Mt. Bigelow. If so, try to point your antenna that direction and check your reception.

Thanks for the welcome, phlewt. Yes, I got my multi-directional outdoor antenna yesterday and oriented it primarily toward Mt. Bigelow. I found existing coax up there from an old satellite dish & connected that to the antenna for direct wall coax outlets in the living room for the Sony HDTV and 2nd bedroom / home office for the PC with Fusion3 HD tuner. The Fusion card gives me detail info on the signal strength:

27.1 (KUAS/PBS) - 100% Even though they don't transmitt from Mt. Bigelow this comes in the best, I assume because antennaweb.org indicates it's the closest, 5.7 miles. I assume they transmitt from the UA campus?

4.1 (KVOA/NBC); 6.1-6.5 (KUAT/PBS); 9.1 (KGUN/ABC) & 11.1 (KMSB/FOX) all come in decent, from 85-95%.

The only channel I have a problem with is 13.1 (KOLD/CBS). The Sony dosen't detect it at all while the Fusion finds it but at only 50% with a lot of frozen audio & video. KOLD is up on Mt. Bigelow as well, aren't they? Perhaps they don't transmit with as much power as the other stations?

I'm not using any pre-amp or amplifier on the antenna; perhaps that will help bring in KOLD.

Oh yeah, the Fusion HD tuner card also brings in a weak signal on 58.1, the WB, but I always assumed reception of 58.1 would be a long shot as they transmitt 35+ miles away in Sierra Vista. And there's rarely anything I want to watch on the WB anyway.

DaveinVegas,

From your location you should get all the stations perfectly. I suspect you could do much better with a different antenna. If you truly have a multidirectional antenna (how do you "orient a "multidirectional" ?) you are losing significant signal level compared to a directional antenna. UHF digital signals really need a directional antenna. Of course with the station transmitters in different directions you would have to possibly rotate it. However, I am guessing you would be very successful with a little indoor antenna. The one most recommended is the Zenith Silver Sensor. Sears sold it not too long ago for $40, otherwise it is all over the net for $25-$30. It really is a remarkable antenna. You should try it. Just buy it somewhere you can return it if necessary. Don't buy a different brand that looks the same (like Terk).

BTW, PBS has 2 transmitters. KUAT, with 4 sub channels, is on Bigelow. KUAS, HD only, is on Tumamoc hill (near downtown Tucson). 6.1 on KUAt shows HD also. BUT, the have a goofy schedules for when they transmit, check their website.

Hi,

I'm 3 weeks new to HDTV. My question is about macroblocking on KVOA. When watching HD shows on 4.1, there seems to be some pretty bad macroblocking on scene changes and pans. I watch Conan a decent amount and notice this effect often. It was also readily apparent during the weekends Nascar race. I'm wondering if this is an NBC thing or if KVOA is sqeezing their output.

Thanks,
Billy

Hi,

I have my new Panasonic plasma hooked up to Comcast basic. After scanning the channels with its built-in tuner (cable mode), the channel numbers don't agree with what I see posted. Here are the ones I have identified so far:
87-1 UPN
88-3 CBS
88-6 FOX

Any ideas on why these are different from both Comcast cable numbers and OTA numbers?

Thanks,

John

PS: HD is awesome!

Hi,

I have my new Panasonic plasma hooked up to Comcast basic. After scanning the channels with its built-in tuner (cable mode), the channel numbers don't agree with what I see posted. Here are the ones I have identified so far:
87-1 UPN
88-3 CBS
88-6 FOX

Any ideas on why these are different from both Comcast cable numbers and OTA numbers?

Thanks,

John

PS: HD is awesome!

the sub channels of 87 and 88 or the actual channel frequency that Comcast uses for the local unscrambled digital channels and can be tuned by a QAM capable tuner like yours. All of their digital channels or on sub channels of channels 100-129. They show up on the cable box on a assigned channel number not actually the real channel. You do not see most of the channels above 100 unless they are sending them out unscrambled like when they have a free preview on a movie channel for example. The head engineer at Comcast is a friend of mine so I get some inside information on certain things.

Thanks, RJRSW. That explains it perfectly!

Is there some FCC ruling that cablecos must offer HD channels if you subsribe to their basic channels, and one has a QAM/ATSC tuner? I thought I read that somewhere, but cannot find it.

TIA,

Rich

Is there some FCC ruling that cablecos must offer HD channels if you subsribe to their basic channels, and one has a QAM/ATSC tuner? I thought I read that somewhere, but cannot find it.

TIA,

Rich

I think this is what you were looking for and can be tuned in with no cable box on QAM capable sets:

From the March/April 2003 issue of The Perfect Vision, page 33:

"The FCC requires these local [HDTV] digital channels to be part of 'basic service,' the lowest-price tier of service offered by the cable company (and the only one that's regulated by law), though it doesn't mandate that signals be sent out unencrypted. So if all you want is to see is every local [HDTV] digital broadcast channel offered by your cable company today, you can receive them at the cost of 'basic service' and an HD-box rental..."

"What the cable companies' sales people don't always tell you is that you don't need to order the expensive 'digital packages' to get premium HD channels. A law called the 1992 Cable Act has a provision in it that took effect last October. Called the 'buy through' provision, it basically says that if you have "basic service" you cannot be required to get a higher tier of service...to receive a premium HD channel such as HBO-HD."

"If the customer service person says you must get a digital tier of service to get HDTV, insist on speaking to a supervisor."

DaveinVegas,

UHF digital signals really need a directional antenna. Of course with the station transmitters in different directions you would have to possibly rotate it. However, I am guessing you would be very successful with a little indoor antenna. The one most recommended is the Zenith Silver Sensor. Sears sold it not too long ago for $40, otherwise it is all over the net for $25-$30. It really is a remarkable antenna. You should try it. Just buy it somewhere you can return it if necessary. Don't buy a different brand that looks the same (like Terk).

Really appreciate your suggestions, babakanoosh. Since I'm mainly interersted in receiving digital OTA broadcasts, a small indoor directional UHF antenna makes sense. I did some research on the web and decided to try both the Silver Sensor and new Terk HDTVi with a built in 10db amp, as I could buy both locally (Sears for Silver Sensor and Radio Shack for the Terk) and return the one I didn't like.

The Silver Sensor was a big improvement over the small outdoor multi-directional. But I didn't like the flimsy plastic base the resembling a base for a plastic model airplane. The Terk, in my opinion, acheived noticably better reception, probably due to the 10 db amp. In addition to the directional UHF antenna it also has traditonal "rabbit ears", and with these extended I can receieve KUAS 27.1 very well while the directional antenna aimed in the opposite direction at Mt. Bigelow. The Silver Sensor has only the directional. I like the more solid base & styling of the Terk better, so I chose the Terk and returned the Silver Sensor. BTW, the Silver Sensor was $40 at Sears; the Terk $49 at Radio Shack.
Again, thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction, babakanoosh.

A note on broadcast content: Was anyone else watching "Desparate Housewives" on KGUN last Sunday night? I've been enjoying the re-runs as I missed most of the season last fall, watching Sunday Night Football on ESPN instead. About halfway through with no notice or explanation they suddenly switched over to coverage of Peter Jennings' death. While his passing was certainly a sad thing, I thought it was pretty darn rude to suddenly stop broadcasting the show in progress and never return. I would a think a brief annoucement and "more details at the 10 o'clock news" would have been adequate.

Originally Posted by sytyguy
Is there some FCC ruling that cablecos must offer HD channels if you subsribe to their basic channels, and one has a QAM/ATSC tuner?
I think this is what you were looking for and can be tuned in with no cable box on QAM capable sets:

From the March/April 2003 issue of The Perfect Vision, page 33:

"The FCC requires these local [HDTV] digital channels to be part of 'basic service,' the lowest-price tier of service offered by the cable company (and the only one that's regulated by law), though it doesn't mandate that signals be sent out unencrypted. So if all you want is to see is every local [HDTV] digital broadcast channel offered by your cable company today, you can receive them at the cost of 'basic service' and an HD-box rental..."

"What the cable companies' sales people don't always tell you is that you don't need to order the expensive 'digital packages' to get premium HD channels. A law called the 1992 Cable Act has a provision in it that took effect last October. Called the 'buy through' provision, it basically says that if you have "basic service" you cannot be required to get a higher tier of service...to receive a premium HD channel such as HBO-HD."

"If the customer service person says you must get a digital tier of service to get HDTV, insist on speaking to a supervisor." I took the Rich's question to be "are the cablecos required to offer the local HDs". The answer to that, as we know is that they aren't. All the FCC rule says is that they can't charge you extra. It doesn't require them to provide the service. Hence the current state of affairs with KGUN. So you have the answer to both questions.

I took the Rich's question to be "are the cablecos required to offer the local HDs". The answer to that, as we know is that they aren't. All the FCC rule says is that they can't charge you extra. It doesn't require them to provide the service. Hence the current state of affairs with KGUN. So you have the answer to both questions.

That's true but If some of the local stations refuse (and we all no who they are) to provide the HD signal the cable company cannot carry it.

If the local HD stations allow them to rebroadcast it Comcast does provide it at no extra charge over basic service. I just subscribe to basic cable service and I receive the HD digital signals for UPN , PBS, CBS and FOX at no additional charge.

Now if the other two greedy holdouts who care far more about a few extra bucks then the potential viewing audience would get with the program it would be great.

I think this is what you were looking for and can be tuned in with no cable box on QAM capable sets:

From the March/April 2003 issue of The Perfect Vision, page 33:

"The FCC requires these local [HDTV] digital channels to be part of 'basic service,' the lowest-price tier of service offered by the cable company (and the only one that's regulated by law), though it doesn't mandate that signals be sent out unencrypted. So if all you want is to see is every local [HDTV] digital broadcast channel offered by your cable company today, you can receive them at the cost of 'basic service' and an HD-box rental..."
There is also another ruling (sorry, no link for it, and the fcc site is utterly useless for finding stuff) that says that channels in the lowest tier can not be encrypted, and this does apply to the locals in HD as well. If they exist on the cable, they must be available to you. Most cable companies are complying with this now, although it was a bit rocky in the old days. This also means that for cable companies that are implementing digital simulacasts that these channels should also be available in the clear, and indeed when Cox was doing it up here, they were.

Thanks guys, for the update/info on that question. I just found out my LG3200A is not QAM capable, I guess I should have read the documentation first. Funny though, I did receive several SD channels, but not all of them. Oh, this is in Nevada, through Charter, which does offer about 4 HD channels.

The reason I am subd to this thread, is that I am moving to Tucson next year when our house is built.....can't wait.

Again thanks,

Rich

For those that live in the Sabino Canyon/Cloud area, which antenna are you using?

I picked up the US Digital receiver from Wal-Mart the other day. I bought a Phillips antenna to have something to play with while I antenna shop. The Phillips did not get KGUN or KVOA. The other channels were marginal.

I want to try a Zenith Silver Sensor but did not find it at the Park Mall Sears. Perhaps the Tucson Mall Sears? Also thinking of trying the Radio Shack 15-1880 antenna. Not sure about needing the amp or not. WalMart.com sells a Phillips Silver Sensor that looks completely different than the Zenith Silver Sensor. Anyone have experience with that one? Ideally I'd like to buy locally so I can easily return ones that don't perform well.

-- Scott

You can find a Silver Sensor at the Tucson Sears, I was just there and they had one, I tried one at my apartment and it didn't work as good as my Terk bow-tie (don't know model number) but maybe it will work for you.

You can find a Silver Sensor at the Tucson Sears, I was just there and they had one, I tried one at my apartment and it didn't work as good as my Terk bow-tie (don't know model number) but maybe it will work for you.

What part of town is your apartment in? Do you have a fairly clear view of the Catalinas?

-- Scott

I am on Oracle near Grant (moving soon though) and the only channel I don't get well is 58, I can get it but then I loose most everything else. I was hoping the silver sensor would fix this but it was a little worse in reception in the same area I have me terk. My Terk is amplified and that helps it a bit I believe.

I picked up a Silver Sensor tonight. The channels I do get, come in a bit stronger. Even got a couple more including WB network. However I still can not get KGUN or KVOA. I even tried manually receiving these and I can not get them. Are they broadcasting? Its odd that I cannot receive anything at all for these two.

-- Scott

KVOA & KGUN are both broadcasting. I watched the Busch race on KVOA today without any reception issues. Although they seemed to switch to SD whenever they had a storm alert ticker :(

Of all the channels on Bigalow(sp?) I get KGUN the strongest and KOLD the weakest. Surprised that you're receiving some from there and not others.

Reading back I see your in rough terrain. I wonder if it's an issue with the broadcast antenna height. Someone mentioned once to try aiming the antenna in all directions, as you might pick up a multicast from a direction you'd least expect.

Good Luck

Billy

I was able to get KVOA today, and did see some of the race. Not sure why it came in now and not before. However, still no joy for KGUN.

I have a longer coax and temporarily placed the antenna on the roof so it had line of sight vision to the mountains. Still no KGUN. But the other channels were a bit stronger. I might investigate a small roof top antenna. I don't really want one of the larger ones.

-- Scott

Scott:

Just wanted to know where you were able to find the Silver Sensor antenna. Is this made by Zenith? Thanks. Jimmy

I was able to get KVOA today, and did see some of the race. Not sure why it came in now and not before. However, still no joy for KGUN.

-- Scott

I couldn't receive KGUN HD/digital around 7 PM, when I wanted to check Extreme Makeover. I did get it on analog channel 9, and decided the show was a bore. At 9PM, for Desperate Housewives, KGUN came in perfect in HD. Perhaps they powered down/off digital during passing storms?

Jimmy - I know you're asking Scott, but FYI the Tucson Mall Sears had several Silver Sensors, which carry the Zenith name, and they now have one more when I returned one yesterday. I went with the Terk HDTVi with 10 db amp from Radio Shack ($49.99), which worked better than the Silver Sensor for me.

Happy HDTV viewing, y'all - I'm off tomorrow for 2 weeks in sunny Nicaragua :p

BTW, there doesn't seem to be any way to change one's user name, so I made a new membership to get me out of Lost Wages and into sunny Tucson. :p

Scott:

Just wanted to know where you were able to find the Silver Sensor antenna. Is this made by Zenith? Thanks. Jimmy

I got it at the Tucson Mall Sears as Sunkist and DaveinVegas(Tucson) mentioned in their posts. Sears still had 2 remaining (as of Friday). And it is the Zenith Silver Sensor.

-- Scott

HD Users:

ABC will not be providing an HD feed from 8/23/05 through 8/26/05 in order to upgrade its HDTV release facility. Because the upgrade involves the replacement of a router, there will be NO SD feed either.

Therefore, during this four day period, KGUN will be upcoverting its analog signal.

Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

Ray Depa
VP & GM
KGUN-DT

Dave & Scott:

Thank you both for your help and advice. I guess I have two different antennas to scope out now. In my area, we have Cox Cable but I haven't yet subscribed to the Hi Def channels since I postponed getting a HDTV. I've only been in my new apartment for 2 weeks and still trying to get settled. I got a 32" Sharp TV from BestBuy on sale for $259 (definitely a bargain) to hold me over until I spring for the big widescreen HDTV.

From my balcony, I have a clear view of the Catalinas so hopefully I will be able to bring in those OTA hi def signals since Cox apparently doesn't have local Hi Def (except for PBS).

Again, thanks for the help and advice. Jimmy

Dave & Scott:

From my balcony, I have a clear view of the Catalinas so hopefully I will be able to bring in those OTA hi def signals since Cox apparently doesn't have local Hi Def (except for PBS).

My son has Cox and I believe he also now gets the CBS HD signal in addition to PBS.

HD Users:

Ray Depa
VP & GM
KGUN-DT

Ray,
Would you have any idea why KGUN is the only OTA channel I cannot receive? Are there any dead spots in their transmission?

-- Scott

Scott,

In an earlier post I think I saw that you are in the Sabino Canyon/Cloud Road area. I am in the Sabino Canyon/Snyder Rd. area in Hidden Valley, just about 3 miles due North of your area. I have to use an outdoor antenna to get any of the stations, KGUN being one of the lowest signal levels, but the signal is there and stable. I am 10.1 miles South of Bigelow with no line of sight to the towers on Bigelow.

Down at KGUN, in the Speedway/Kolb area, with a set of VHF/UHF rabbit ears, I get KGUN the strongest and cannot get KVOA/KOLD, but have line of sight to Bigelow. KGUN is about 16 miles South of Bigelow. You are located about 13 miles South of Bigelow and should be able to get everything from Bigelow with the right antenna.

You may want to try antennaweb org and enter your address. The database will return your orientation to Bigelow and also recommend what sort of antenna you may need to receive all of the stations from Bigelow.

Good Luck,

Steve

Scott,

In an earlier post I think I saw that you are in the Sabino Canyon/Cloud Road area. I am in the Sabino Canyon/Snyder Rd. area in Hidden Valley, just about 3 miles due North of your area. I have to use an outdoor antenna to get any of the stations, KGUN being one of the lowest signal levels, but the signal is there and stable. I am 10.1 miles South of Bigelow with no line of sight to the towers on Bigelow.

Good Luck,

Steve

Steve,
What outdoor antenna are you using?

If I get one, I think I would like one of the smaller ones like the Winegard Square Shooter. Not sure how that would work however. Maybe it would be best to get one of the Radio Shack outdoor antennas?

-- Scott

Just curious if anyone experienced KMSB 11-1 tuning problems over last week or so. My Panasonic plasma ATSC tuner makes a loud pop anytime I try going to 11-1 and then flips to VCR Mode! I never see any video before it switches though the call letters are there below the channel number.

It use to work fine and all other digital OTA stations are coming in ok. I just can't get 11-1 any longer. My antenna is fine because my other tuner (in my computer) on the exact same cable picks up 11-1 at 81%, as usual.

I thought maybe an error in the PSIP signal could cause this. I can't understand how the TV itself could fail on only one station. However, I'll check the other forums for this possibility. Thanks.

Update: It started working again today! Though I get two small blinking dash marks near the top 1/4 of the screen. Anyone else see these?

Steve,
What outdoor antenna are you using?

If I get one, I think I would like one of the smaller ones like the Winegard Square Shooter. Not sure how that would work however. Maybe it would be best to get one of the Radio Shack outdoor antennas?

-- Scott


Scott,

After the indoor antenna did not work (generic VHF/UHF rabbit ears), I tried the SS2000 on the roof. I found only one spot on the roof where I could get all of the stations, so I mounted it there. The next issue was that my signal levels were marginal on KVOA/KGUN/KTTU. My Sony with integrated DTV tuner requires 50% out of 100% to lock in the signal, and I was around 41-49% for those three channels.
The other issue was that the SS2000 does not perform as well on VHF as UHF. The VHF is important to me because I want to verify that KGUN analog is on the air, and when the DTV transition is complete, KGUN plans to be VHF DTV channel 9. So I installed a Channel Master VHF/UHF 3671 antenna (designed for far fringe reception) and a Radio Shack preamp, and a rotator for this huge antenna. I can now get all of the VHF channels very well, and all of the DTV channels good to well. I needed the rotator to spin the antenna around to get 58.1 from Sierra Vista, and I can also get the KGUN ch.16 translator from the Tucson Mountain area. Luckily I have a flat roof with lots of space. I tried a 5' mast but it did not make any difference, so I have a 2' mast that can't be seen from the street.

I do not have line of sight to Bigelow and am shooting through the neighbor to the North's trees, not a good scenario. I can rotate the antenna from 28-32 degrees with respect to Bigelow and any distance outside of those values I lose what little signal I have to work with.

If you can see the Bigelow towers at night from your roof then the SS2000 will probably be fine. I would recommend walking the roof with the antenna and have someone in the house give you signal strength numbers from your receiver before you permanently install the antenna. It was surprising how much of a difference a few feet made in my case.
If you can't see the towers then I have heard a good outdoor antenna for UHF is the Channel Master 4228 and probably a preamp. If you want to go VHF/UHF I think Lowe's sells Channel Master antennas, and they have one more appropriate for you location, meaning smaller. I did some shopping online at SolidSignal and StarkElectronics. I personally have not had good luck with Radio Shack antennas, but that's just my opinion.

I apologize for the long post, but wanted to share my experience. I also asked the wife if we could move to a location with line of sight to Bigelow, but that request was quickly denied!

Steve

Scott,

If you can see the Bigelow towers at night from your roof then the SS2000 will probably be fine. I would recommend walking the roof with the antenna and have someone in the house give you signal strength numbers from your receiver before you permanently install the antenna. It was surprising how much of a difference a few feet made in my case.
If you can't see the towers then I have heard a good outdoor antenna for UHF is the Channel Master 4228 and probably a preamp. If you want to go VHF/UHF I think Lowe's sells Channel Master antennas, and they have one more appropriate for you location, meaning smaller.

Steve

Steve, Thanks for all the information!

I do have line of sight to the antennas from the roof, but may have one tree blocking depending on where the antenna would be mounted.

In doing a little online research last night, I found some info on the Channel Master 4221 a 4 bay bowtie and Antennas Direct DB2 a 2 bay bowtie. I've read people have had good success with these providing given certain conditions are met. They are relatively small and inexpensive. I found the Square Shooter to be a mite expensive compared to other types of antenna.

These are multi-directional verse uni-directional. Not sure if I would get extra multipath signals that would hurt the signal reception.

-- Scott

I also see the two small dashes near the top of the screen on KMSB-DT

To add to all the recent discussion about antennas.......

In Tucson, just about everyone is very close to the antenna towers. If you are less than 30 miles from it you are close. The only issue here is line of sight. If you don't have line of site you are receiving multipath signals ( reflections). If you have LOS a simple indoor antenna will usually do. If you don't have LOS you need a very directional, high gain UHF antenna.

I do not have LOS and I have experimented with many outdoor antennas. I have tried 3 from Radio Shack, a couple of Terks and the Winegard Square shooter (plus several others). The best, by far, was the bowtie/screen type. I use the Channel Master 4221 4 bay. I know someone who has the 4228. The most expensive, the Square Shooter, was the worst.

The use of signal amplifiers for a multipath reception issue is not usually a good idea (although it can work sometimes). The reason is with multipath you are actually receiving multiple vesions of the same signal slightly shifted in phase (time) and of varying signal strengths. In the old analog world this would cause ghosting. With digital it is a much bigger problem, Your system, antenna and receiver, has to pick out and stay locked on only one of these. It does not have to be the strongest signal. So, the best method is to use a very directional antenna since the multipath signals usually arrive at your antenna from different directions. That is also why sometimes, with multipath, the best direction to point is not necessarily right at the towers. And, as others have pointed out, you have to experiment with location and height of antenna. Before I got the 4221, which works for me almost anywhere, my best location was lying flat on a lounge chair on my patio. You may also find you need different locations for each station, even in the case where the transmitters are on the same tower on Mt. Bigelow.

I also see the two small dashes near the top of the screen on KMSB-DTThanks. Now I know it's not just me. Appears to happen only on SD broadcasts like during commercials.

Last night during the dance program I got bad lipsync delay starting after the commercial break. I tried switching channels to 9-1 and then back to 11-1 and got the same problem I reported earlier. It flipped me back to VCR mode. Later that night after 10pm I tried 11-1 again and it was ok. Someday I'll get to the bottom of this...

In doing a little online research last night, I found some info on the Channel Master 4221 a 4 bay bowtie and Antennas Direct DB2 a 2 bay bowtie. I've read people have had good success with these providing given certain conditions are met. They are relatively small and inexpensive. I found the Square Shooter to be a mite expensive compared to other types of antenna.

These are multi-directional verse uni-directional. Not sure if I would get extra multipath signals that would hurt the signal reception.

-- Scott
I wouldn't say the 4 & 2 bay bowtie antennas are "multi-directional". Their polar pattern is wider than an 8 bay bowtie or a yagi. "less-directional" is more appropriate. :)

I wouldn't say the 4 & 2 bay bowtie antennas are "multi-directional". Their polar pattern is wider than an 8 bay bowtie or a yagi. "less-directional" is more appropriate. :)

For me the 4 bay bow tie works good. In Scottsdale pointed at 130 degrees I get all Phoenix stations at 186 degrees and all Tucson stations at 126 degrees, except WB.
The newer receivers also handle multipath much better than the older ones. My original Samsung was lousy comparded to my new USDTV receiver from Wal mart.

Hello I have been reading through most of this thread and excuse me if I missed this question being asked earlier.

I live in Rita Ranch and was wondering if anyone out there is using a Voom box with an indoor antenna, or would I need to get an outdoor one.

Antenna shows all yellow for this location now (which is different than they showed about a month ago). I do have LOS of the towers on Mt Bigelow.

With Emmis selling KGUN to Journal Communications, I'm hoping that KGUN will finally let the cable companies carry their digital material.

I've had no signal from KOLD-DT since last night. Anyone else having trouble receiving them?

With Emmis selling KGUN to Journal Communications, I'm hoping that KGUN will finally let the cable companies carry their digital material.

Well if Journal Communications is the same Journal Communications that owns Journal Broadcast Group than there is hope.

I browsed a couple of the stations listed here http://www.journalbroadcastgroup.com/locations/ and the Las Vegas and the Boise station's HD signal is carried by the local cable company. And the Las Vegas station is carried by Cox so hopefully they already have a relationship.

I'm hoping that the local cable companies (please Cox) work to get more national HD channels, like ESPN2 and TNT as well.

Does anyone know why Comcast has KMSB 11 HD but Cox doesn't?

Does anyone know why KVOA multicasts their SD signal on 4.2? Are there any digital tuners that couldn't downconvert the 4.1 signal? Seems like a waste of bandwidth to me and it shows.

I know there is occasional presence by KGUN and KVOA personnel on this forum.

Yesterday you denied my HD waivers to receive your network's signals at my location via DirecTV. Between my location in NW Tucson (3000 feet) and your transmitter towers at Mt. Bigelow (8500 feet), lies Mt. Lemmon (9200 feet). There is no way a UHF signal can reliably achieve a Line-Of-Sight path to my location given that topography. Thus you cannot deliver a reliable network signal to NW Tucson.

And yet you prevent DirecTV from supplying your network signal and you do not allow ComCast to carry your local signal. What is the advantage to you in denying a customer access to your network? Do you prefer that all my viewing be on CBS and FOX via ComCast? Are you anxious to lose viewers in the NW Tucson area who are willing to go to the extra expense of cable and/or DBS for HD?

Or is it that you just - don't - care?

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Does anyone know why KVOA multicasts their SD signal on 4.2? Are there any digital tuners that couldn't downconvert the 4.1 signal?I think they should all do this. It allows one to view their SD programs in full 16x9 stretched without black bars (for those who can't stretch digital signals). It only seems redundant when they are broadcasting HD.Seems like a waste of bandwidth to me and it shows.Where does it show?

I think they should all do this. It allows one to view their SD programs in full 16x9 stretched without black bars (for those who can't stretch digital signals). It only seems redundant when they are broadcasting HD.


I never thought about the stretch. That's a good argument for those that perfer that format.


Where does it show?

I've noticed low quality HD on KVOA when watching Nascar and Conan. Nascar is very blocky during any live action.

Conan is very blocky during scene changes.

My theory is both of these are caused by not giving the HD feed the full bandwidth. I've asked people about Conan on the HDTV Programmig forum. The responses indicate that this is not a national problem with Conan.

Also, I've watched Nascar HD highlights on ESPN, and the picture looked awesome. However live Nascar on KVOA is about the most dissapointing aspect of this HDTV I recently purchased.

I think KVOA should try turning off 4.2 during the next race and giving 4.1 the full bandwidth. I've heard of other stations doing such during big live HD events.

Note: When watching episodal programming I have not noticed any problems. I suspect that with a live recording they are not able to optimize their MPEG encoding as well as a prerecorded show.

Greetings,
Supposedly David Letterman will be in HD for the first time tonight...I guess I am just a little gunshy that our local affiliate won't "flip" the switch...I know West Avra Wiz sometimes posts here so this is a plea that if Letterman is in HD tonight please let it be HD.
Thanks,
BB

I think KVOA should try turning off 4.2 during the next race and giving 4.1 the full bandwidth. I've heard of other stations doing such during big live HD events.

Note: When watching episodal programming I have not noticed any problems. I suspect that with a live recording they are not able to optimize their MPEG encoding as well as a prerecorded show.That's a good point on the live broadcasts. If it's easy for them to do, I don't see why they don't turn off 4.2 for any HD broadcast since it is totally unnecessary during that time.

I'm new here, so hello to begin with.

I having been reading through this forum and then wrote very polite e-mails to the GMs of all of the local stations, because I'm very unhappy that only CBS allows Cox cable to broadcast their HD channel.

It makes no sense to me that they want money or even make that argument. Since I just recently got my new HDTV, I've found myself skipping pretty much anything on NBC, ABC, FOX, WB, and UPN.

I have a few favorite shows that I will still watch, but I will not watch ANY new programming on any of the networks that won't give Cox permission to use their HD feed. They lose viewership and the analog signal is still there for cable viewers anyway, so it just seems senseless that they would do this.

They don't figure the HD viewers are big enough to really care about, but I've spoken to some people at the newspapers and I don't plan to let them off easy.

Cox is just plain awful when it comes to giving customers any info about HD channels and it burns me up that we have so few. Dish network has many more, but it's not an option for me right now. Neither is an indoor antenna that wouldn't even likely work that well for me.

Anyway, NBC, Fox, and UPN didn't bother to even respond to my e-mail. That's how little respect they have for their viewers. In fact, using the link on their sites, both Fox and UPN had my e-mails to their station managers returned to me because the e-mail account was not valid. That's pretty pathetic for a station manager of a network affiliate. I ended up having to send e-mails to those stations to the programming department and/or assistant managers. Those didn't come back, but, as I wrote, those networks and NBC/KVOA didn't even bother to write back.

My response from ABC/KGUN 9 was rude and pretty much stuck to the same talking points and disingenuous comments that can be found in the posts from their station manager that are included in this thread.

What was interesting was that I received a very nice response from the GM of the WB affiliate. She wrote me several times. From what I was told, Cox is REFUSING to show the WB-HD channel even though she claims she has offered it to them. They told her that they are only interested in showing the big 4. I imagine that would be ABC, NBC, FOX, and CBS (which Cox already carries).

If this is true, this is totally unacceptable. I pay way too much for cable as it is, but Phoenix carries all the local channels in HD, except UPN, and I think UPN might not have an HD feed yet, but I'm not sure of that. Why would they refuse to offer us the WB if they've already given Cox the go ahead to use their feed?

It's enough between theses weasels at the networks and the "bleeps" at Cox to really make me do anything that I can to get this issue out. The GM at the WB has told me she plans to write an "open letter" to all of you here to explain what Cox is doing very soon. She even mentioned they were considering doing TV spots to let viewers know the situation and to call Cox.

If this doesn't get resolved soon, I will leave Cox and I will not watch ANY of the new network programming on the networks that won't allow their HD feeds to be shown by Cox. This needs to get resolved and viewers are the only ones who can do anything about it. You'd think NBC, ABC, and Fox would do anything for more viewers, their primetimes got their butts kicked yet again by CBS last season and in the most important local newscast, the one with the most total viewership, the 10pm news, KGUN is a solid 3rd and last. They must be proud. I will only watch kOLD news and I have a lot of friends who are doing the same.

The new fall season is right around the corner and it's too bad these stations and Cox are still dragging their feet, making excuses, and thumbing their noses at their viewers. It's pathetic. Cox has told me several times now that they plan to have Tucson resemble the Phoenix model, with all the local affiliates offered in HD-TV (except UPN) and now I've been told they are telling the WB, "No thanks."

I won't stand for this. Sorry if this seems a bit confrontational, but this isn't right. I pay for cable and the prices keep going up and up. They are daring me to leave and I'm about ready to do it. They ought to be more transparent about their services, considering what they charge.

And if these GMs think losing viewers and daring people to choose to watch other channels, then they are going to be losing their jobs. I will make some impression on these people. I'm persistent and passionate about this. If I need to get in touch with advertisers, I will. Many networks have underestimated their viewers in the past and usually they pay for it, one way or another.

I hope that others here are willing to help and I hope that you all will read the letter from Carol LaFever from WB and if Cox is really blocking them from showing their HD feed, I think we ought to really let them hear about it.

Thanks for giving me a place to discuss my feelings with fellow HDTV enthusiasts. There's nothing like it and it's simply pathetic that we have only one network that has the intelligence to share their feed with cable and satellite viewers. Kudos to those at KOLD.

Again, thanks for having a great and supportive forum!

PS-I thought Letterman looked great in HD last night. It was very exciting, but the CBS feed over Cox cable has some pixelation problems and sound issues. Anyone else notice this? It has to be CBS, local or national, because I've never seen this happen on any of my other HD channels...all 7 of them. ;)

Welcome Rory

Well, that's a disturbing story you've told about the networks and Cox. I guess in the end it's all about money and power.

I'm on DirecTv and an antenna that pulls in the HD programs (and digital SD) just fine. So far Directv has a pathetic lineup of HD, at a high cost, so I'm happy to use the antenna for the occasional HD hit.

You might want to try the antenna approach.

Patrick

Welcome Rory

Well, that's a disturbing story you've told about the networks and Cox. I guess in the end it's all about money and power.

I'm on DirecTv and an antenna that pulls in the HD programs (and digital SD) just fine. So far Directv has a pathetic lineup of HD, at a high cost, so I'm happy to use the antenna for the occasional HD hit.

You might want to try the antenna approach.

Patrick

Patrick,

Thanks for the welcome.

Anything is an option, but I plan on pursuing this issue first. I just have that type of personality. I pay so much for so little (in terms of quality and service) from Cox that I deserve more than this. And more from my local affiliates as well.

As of now, it's a bit impractical for me to get an antenna. I'm in a very bad spot and I really don't want and don't think I should have to spend more money and work constantly on getting a better signal because of these greedy dishonest people.

But if nothing changes, I will consider moving to a better spot for an antenna and getting dish network.

Cox keeps showing these commercials about having the best customer service and it makes me think, "My God, those poor, poor people living elsewhere," because Cox has terrible customer service, terrible technical support, and horrible leadership.

Whether the GMs of the local affiliates are worse or not...I can't say. Maybe it's a draw.

But do they really want us to believe that KOLD/CBS, the number 1 channel in primetime and tied for number one in viewership in the nightly news with once unbeatable KVOA, wants to lose money or that they are stupid? Because they've decided to give us their feed and they've been great when I've called and had questions for them. I think there's a correlation between a great station and the people who run it and the way they look at and treat their viewers. KOLD is tops in more than just ratings.

But it's not right that the other stations are doing what they're doing and not even bothering to respond to me or, in the case of KGUN 9, treat me rudely.

And the whole thing with the WB is interesting and I hope that letter from their GM shows up soon. If Cox is blocking the WB, I'm probably getting a dish in protest.

Cox has had a policy of refusing to carry DT channels that don't provide any true HD content. Up here in Phoenix, this means no KUTP (UPN), KPPX (Pax), or KTVK (IND) DT channels. UPN in Tucson isn't passing HD (yet), so that isn't carried. Correct me if I'm wrong, but KWBA doesn't pass any HD programming either, just upconverted SD, so that rules them out too. It's nothing personal, just a decision made to not waste bandwidth on content that's duplicated on the analog channel (all qualiry arguments aside).

KVOA and KGUN's owners are just greedy, so to hell with them. Apparently they don't realize that due to FCC regulations, local HD channels are always carried in the clear by cable providers. This means that anyone who subscribes to any level of service (even the most basic) and has a QAM-capable tuner or "digital cable ready" TV gets them for no additional cost, making their argument about "The cable company makes money off our HD, so we should too" pointless and wrong. Memo to owners: not making your HD available on cable means that you will have fewer viewers, which costs you money in advertising dollars, especially in a market with terrain problems like Tucson where a significant portion of your viewers are completely unable to receive the DT channel OTA.

KMSB I'm not sure of, since Belo also owns KASW in Phoenix, which Cox carries in HD.

Rory

Welcome to the forum and the HD fun that is Cox. Does anyone know if Cox is tight on bandwidth? I noticed that on the channel guide all the analogs are also listed in digital listings in the 800's. Are they planning on killing the analog channels to gain additional bandwidth?

As to the locals, I think that the KGUN manager has his head screwed on backwards. He has posted here many times about wanting a fee and that doesn't make sense. That would just raise the consumer's rates if the cable companies ever caved and paid them a fee. Local broadcasting was built on the free reception business model. Cable companies provide a service by hauling the local signal to my house so that I get a good signal all the time. Local stations should be grateful as they are able to get a much larger potential audience through cable. It seems that the big market locals are carried by their local providers to a large extent. I think it's just the little affiliates that are trying to have this power struggle.

For KMSB, I don't understand why they aren't on Cox. Comcast carries their HD signal in the northwest. That's the battle that we should really fight. I'll start emailing and calling KMSB about carriage on Cox too. The more of us that pester them, the better luck we'll have.

For KWBA, if they are truly being refused to be carried by Cox, they need to post the open letter on their website as well as get a letter published in the newspaper and really push the issue.

And I'd love to know if Cox is ever going to pick up TNT-HD and ESPN2-HD. Does anyone know if they have to pay an additional fee to carry those above the rate for TNT & ESPN2?

Oh, and I've seen mention of KGUN being sold. That might be our only hope beyond a must carry mandate by the FCC.

That's a good point on the live broadcasts. If it's easy for them to do, I don't see why they don't turn off 4.2 for any HD broadcast since it is totally unnecessary during that time.

I received this message from the KVOA operations manager. I'm really excited about seeing Nascar this weekend.

Thank you for your e-mail. After a little research KVOA will be turning off
4.2 and committing that bandwidth to 4.1. Hope you enjoy the improved
signal.

Rory
And I'd love to know if Cox is ever going to pick up TNT-HD and ESPN2-HD. Does anyone know if they have to pay an additional fee to carry those above the rate for TNT & ESPN2?
Cox recently signed a national agreement with TNT to carry TNT-HD.
Omaha has been confirmed for mid-September, with Las Vegas picking it up between then and mid-October. Phoenix and Tucson shouldn't be far behind.

As far as I know, there is no deal in place for ESPN2-HD, so for that we'd probably be looking at December at the earliest, but since nothing has been signed, it might be a lot longer than that.

I received this message from the KVOA operations manager. I'm really excited about seeing Nascar this weekend.That's great! Though, hopefully they don't mean permanently. :confused:

KMSB I'm not sure of, since Belo also owns KASW in Phoenix, which Cox carries in HD.

KMSB-DT is carried on Comcast. NO NBC and ABC though.

Cox has had a policy of refusing to carry DT channels that don't provide any true HD content. Up here in Phoenix, this means no KUTP (UPN), KPPX (Pax), or KTVK (IND) DT channels. UPN in Tucson isn't passing HD (yet), so that isn't carried. Correct me if I'm wrong, but KWBA doesn't pass any HD programming either, just upconverted SD, so that rules them out too. It's nothing personal, just a decision made to not waste bandwidth on content that's duplicated on the analog channel (all qualiry arguments aside).

.

I received this e-mail from the GM of KWBA:

"Interesting and very timely letter. We are in the process of negotiating cable carriage on a go-forward basis with Cox, but they take the position that only "the big four" should be entitled to carriage in high-def. We are disputing that dismissal and asking very firmly that they add us to the digital tier (high-def tier) asap. We would welcome the opportunity to forward your letter to Cox; do you mind? We are in fact broadcasting now (and have been for months) a full power, high-def signal, although, thanks to Cox, you can at present enjoy it only over the air."


Carol LaFever


I asked her to post an open letter here and this was her response after I sent her a link to this forum:


"Thanks. Look for my post soon!" CL

I'm not aware of KWBA-DT being on Comcast either...

Well, here I am in Oro Valley, denied DirecTV HD waivers in hand, and still I persist in trying to get the locals! Call me crazy :confused:

Anyhow, Channel Master 3021 feeding a DirecTV HR10-250 tuner (no diplexers). After tuning for "maximum smoke" on the signal meter, here is where I am:
KVOA: 88
KUAT: 12-24 no lock
KGUN: 0-26 no lock
KMSB: 0
KOLD: 79
KTTU: 78
KUAS: 14-50 occasional lock
KWBA: 0

Anyone know if KGUN was transmitting at full power today?

KWBA (WB) undetectable, even with antenna pointed to Tucamoc (sp?) Hill.

Looks good for NBC, CBS and UPN anyway. No joy for ABC and FOX. Based on the signal fluctuations, sure looks like a multipath signal. I tried various heights and locations over a few hours. This represents the best I could get.

Comments and suggestions welcome. Thanks.

As I can't see it, don't get, or have access to Cox, I'd appreciate any reports about the quality of KOLD on COX. I get OTA and Comcast, but until Cox puts in a back-haul line, (which will probably never happen) I have no way of seeing or verifying any complaints. Let me know about major problems with Cox and KOLD.

I started watching Dave a little bit the past two nights and have been seeing some artifacts on the Cox feed. OTA I haven't seen the problems.

What I'm seeing is a horizontal row of blocks that will be green or all messed up for a second. Sometimes it's a partial row of blocks or a couple of rows. I haven't seen it on the whole picture at once.

I've watched ESPNHD on Comcast a lot and haven't noticed similar problems on that, so I don't think it's Cox HD in general.

I have not watched other CBS HD since there isn't much on in the summer and I'm not a CSI fan, which is half of your programming :) So I don't know if it is just Dave.

A couple weeks ago I had several posts about antennas and attempting to receive KGUN's signals. I live in the Sabino Canyon & Cloud area. I purchased a DB2 antenna and put it on my roof with line of sight to the antenna towers. I can now fully receive KVOA which was iffy with the indoor Silver Sensor. KGUN's power varies. Some times it comes in okay. Other times like yesterday, its a very weak signal.

With others stating problems with KGUN's signal, it leads me to believe they have some basic difficulties broadcasting their signal. I feel with line of sight to the towers I should be able to receive the signal without as much difficulty as I am having.

-- Scott

I am trying to write this without going off on a total rant....

Since the local CBS affiliate preempts the network feed of the Letterman show (which is finally in HD only as of last Monday!) for local sports coverage:

Does this mean that we are going to only have the crappy SD feed EVERY Friday for the rest of the year ? :mad:

Well, here I am in Oro Valley, denied DirecTV HD waivers in hand, and still I persist in trying to get the locals! Call me crazy :confused:

KWBA (WB) undetectable, even with antenna pointed to Tucamoc (sp?) Hill.

Comments and suggestions welcome. Thanks..

KWBA broadcasts from a tower near the Siera Vista area.

Tumamoc Hill has the digital towers for PBS 28 and near there the Telemundo 40

Well, here I am in Oro Valley, denied DirecTV HD waivers in hand, and still I persist in trying to get the locals! Call me crazy :confused:

KWBA (WB) undetectable, even with antenna pointed to Tucamoc (sp?) Hill.


Comments and suggestions welcome. Thanks.


I'm in the Ft. Lowell & Country Club area, with a Terk HDTVi indoor antenna. KWBA analog comes in OK with my antenna oriented toward Mt. Bigelow. If I point my antenna toward Sierra Vista, I get pretty good reception of the digital broadcast on 58.1 .

Are you far enough up in Oro Valley that perhaps some of the foothills are blocking your line of sight to Sierra Vista?

BTW, Wow, was I impressed by KOLD's HD broadcast of "Along Came a Spider" last night. The video quality was even better than my Denon DVD player's 720p upconverting output.

Another night without the Late Show in HD?

What's the point of even having an HD channel if you don't broadcast the show in HD?

This sucks.

I agree with Rory, they are asleep at the wheel again at KOLD....I did see several flashes of a "green" screen that may indicate they were trying to switch to HD...but come on, this shouldn't be that difficult. Please KOLD people tell me if I am wrong?

And I ask again, are we screwed out of Friday HD because of the lame (IMHO) local football update?

I've been getting the green screens on KOLD via Comcast also. I thought maybe I should blame this on Comcast but also got them over the air antenna. KOLD seems to forget to "turn on" HD from time to time. When will they finally get it right?

I'll ask this question just once more in case people missed it the first time:

Does anyone have trouble getting KMSB-DT 11-1 OTA (not cable) during an actual HD broadcast??

I can get them just fine all day long until they start broadcasting an HD signal, like Prison Break, for example. Then my new plasma TV's ATSC tuner goes black with no audio. It makes an annoying click sound and sends it into a hard reset mode which doesn't seem very good at all.

I have set up a service call with Panasonic but they have not called back yet to schedule. I'm not sure who to call at KMSB about possible changes to their PSIP signal lately, but that is my next route.

Yes, I get all other DTV stations in HD just fine and KMSB comes in at 88%. Thanks.

I'm not sure who to call at KMSB about possible changes to their PSIP signal lately, but that is my next route.
KMSB is controlled by KTVK in Phoenix. Check out post #404 in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4561373&&#post4561373) for contact information.

Does anyone have trouble getting KMSB-DT 11-1 OTA (not cable) during an actual HD broadcast??


I tried 11-1 tonight during an HD broadcast and was able to tune it in fine OTA with the built in tunner on my Samsung HDTV.

I'll ask this question just once more in case people missed it the first time:

Does anyone have trouble getting KMSB-DT 11-1 OTA (not cable) during an actual HD broadcast??

I can get them just fine all day long until they start broadcasting an HD signal, like Prison Break, for example. Then my new plasma TV's ATSC tuner goes black with no audio. It makes an annoying click sound and sends it into a hard reset mode which doesn't seem very good at all.

I have set up a service call with Panasonic but they have not called back yet to schedule. I'm not sure who to call at KMSB about possible changes to their PSIP signal lately, but that is my next route.

Yes, I get all other DTV stations in HD just fine and KMSB comes in at 88%. Thanks.

I recorded (HR10-250) Prison Break OTA on 11-1 and it came thru just fine.

Tony

Thanks for the responses. I left a message with Jim Cole at KTVK and here locally. I can't believe my TV tuner singles out only 11-1 to prevent HD from coming through, though I will still pursue this with Panasonic.

As soon as The OC went to HD last night, I lost the signal as usual. I recorded it just fine though on my other tuner in my PC. If I can just find out what may have changed in their signal in the last month, it may help Panasonic troubleshoot the problem. Thanks.

I've been getting the green screens on KOLD via Comcast also. I thought maybe I should blame this on Comcast but also got them over the air antenna. KOLD seems to forget to "turn on" HD from time to time. When will they finally get it right?

CBS-KOLD has the green screen issue, pixelation during all HD broadcasts, and sound disruption.

I guess people are ok with this, because it doesn't get brought up much, nor does KOLD make any effort to fix their problems or even address them.

They tried to switch to the HD feed of the late show last night, but it was 10 minutes or so into the show because we get that stupid sports show (and I'm a huge sports fan, but this is embarrasingly awful). Someone probably realized that more people would be pissed to miss 10 minutes of the show completely than would be that it wasn't in HD, so they quickly switched it back.

With all the advanced technology that exists, you would think they were a some cable access station the way that they do things at KOLD. At the same time, they're the only station that is decent enough to provide COX with their HD feed, so I can't complain too much.

I can't believe the manager at the WB affiliate asked me if she could use my letter to show to Cox, got my permission to do so, told me that Cox prevented the WB from being broadcast in HD, asked me for the link to this website, promised to post all the details here soon, and then didn't do a damned thing.

Why these people get away with treating their audience that way, I'll never understand.

Are you far enough up in Oro Valley that perhaps some of the foothills are blocking your line of sight to Sierra Vista?


That could very well be it! I wasn't aware they broadcast from SV and Pusch ridge will certainly block any signal coming from there.

At least CBS and NBC seem solid.

Thanks for the info.

Back to the HD issue at KOLD. I did call on Wednesday to the station just to see what would happen, I was sent to the "head engineer"'s voicemail. I haven't received the courtesy of a call back.

And, once again, on Friday, as Rory noted, they show that absolutely embarrassing excuse of a highlight show....since it is sponsored by Nova home loans you can bet I will vote with my wallet to NEVER use them for anything and I will tell my HD friends as well.

Since KOLD cares not to fix or communicate (and they are a TV station!) I will take my money elsewhere.

To the KGUN manager that floats around this forum, any explanation for the HD SD flip flop problems last night. At one point early in the telecast it went all black for a while. Not a lost signal, but a blank broadcast.

It was quite irritating all night. Hard to justify the HDTV when the HD that's out there is broadcast in such a poor manner.

To everyone having various HD reception problems, welcome to the way it is. The stations really have a relatively low priority for their digital transmision since most customers still get it on analog. One day this will change when the analog stations get turned off but that is probably many years away.

The amount of different equipment involved from original transmission to the local station equipment is large. Although there are standards there are lots of variances allowed especiall in PSIP. Yes, most of the stations still have to do a manual switchover between HD and SD. The overall systems are somewhat cobbled together. Just think about the number of different original source material resolutions. The inclusion of Dolby Digital is also difficult . The local station engineers don't necessarily have a deep knowledge of all the equipment. And remember, except for live sports, most of the HD has to be recorded locally for retransmission in local time slots with local commercials inserted. The problems we see quite often, except for the asleep at the switch, are at the network end, not local.
I am not trying to defend what is happening, just align expectations with what is really going on. Believe me it is 100% better than it was one year ago.

To the KGUN manager that floats around this forum, any explanation for the HD SD flip flop problems last night. At one point early in the telecast it went all black for a while. Not a lost signal, but a blank broadcast.

It was quite irritating all night. Hard to justify the HDTV when the HD that's out there is broadcast in such a poor manner.

We received it from the network that way. We did not have problems at the station, other than switching to SD when the network went to black intermittantly on the HD feed.

If you do a search on ABC HDTV you will discover that other ABC affiliates had the same problem with HD. Of course, if a station only aired the upconverted SD feed it was fine.

Steve
KGUN

KMSB had a similar problem Monday night during Prison Break. 1/2 SD, 1/2 HD. But good luck finding out what their story is. I left messages with both local and KTVK about the signal problems I was having and not a peep so far. :mad:

Has anyone else noticed that the KOLD signal over Cox has not been in HD the last few days? Noticed it initially with CSI and Letterman. Today I was all set to watch football in HD and it is not in HD even though everything I can find online says that it should be.

I have been watching more things on KOLD since they atleast allow Cox to air it, but they seem to be having a lot of problems.

Has anyone else noticed that the KOLD signal over Cox has not been in HD the last few days? Noticed it initially with CSI and Letterman. Today I was all set to watch football in HD and it is not in HD even though everything I can find online says that it should be.

I have been watching more things on KOLD since they atleast allow Cox to air it, but they seem to be having a lot of problems.

Tenn-FLA was in HD on Cox 713 tonight, at least on my TV.

The two hour CSI on Thursday was not in HD, OTA or Cox, for some reason. Called KOLD and was told they'd "flip the switch," but that never happened.

Speaking of KOLD-HD on Cox. Does anyone else get random digital artifacts? I don't get the artifacts OTA, but I do on Cox.

Now that the new season is starting, has anyone heard when KTTU will start sending out a HD signal? Last I heard, it was "very soon"; well, it's very soon now and still haven't seen HD from them yet.

Tony

Tenn-FLA was in HD on Cox 713 tonight, at least on my TV.

The two hour CSI on Thursday was not in HD, OTA or Cox, for some reason. Called KOLD and was told they'd "flip the switch," but that never happened.

Speaking of KOLD-HD on Cox. Does anyone else get random digital artifacts? I don't get the artifacts OTA, but I do on Cox.

Thanks. I didn't stick around home last night to watch Tenn-FLA, we went to the roller derby.

I do get a lot of digital artifacts on 713, and I also get a lot of audio drop out, especially later at night.

My search of the forum yielded that there may have been a problem a while ago, but I thought I'd get an update. The audio syncronization is about 2-3 seconds off on 27.1 and I wondered what the issue may be. 6.1 is perfect for me. What's the deal? 27.1 sometimes has stuff that is not on 6.1 or atively, it has HD broadcasts when 6.1 doesn't. Opinions?

Eric

I was told today that TNT-HD will be added to Cox-Tucson on October 12th.

Now if they could just get to NBC, ABC, FOX and the WB.

UPN probably isn't worth worrying about since they don't even have it in PHX.

ABC had the worst OTA signal I can recall for MNF last night the move to ESPN can't come soon enough.

Once again, no HD on KOLD for Letterman. I think that just one show last week made the "switch" to HD. Is anybody running the station or are we just to assume this crappy non-attention to detail is the way things will always be?

At this point I am giving up and watching Leno from now on...never a problem on being broadcast in HD.

A thoroughly disgusted former viewer....

are we just to assume this crappy non-attention to detail is the way things will always be?I think so.

It seems to be reverting to what is what a year ago. I have hardly seen one reliable hour of HD on any station recently. The switching to HD after commercials (or even at the start) seems to be the biggest issue with ALL stations. I don't understand why the switch can't be "flipped" automatically and why we have to rely on some joker who decides to take a cigarette break or a nap or who could care less about a premier episode program. :mad:

Besides that, even if you do get a good picture for a while, there's the wonderful audio dropouts to look forward to (ABC and CBS in particular). Apparently nothing is sacred. Take for instance the final episode of LOST where 20 min of audio was muted. This tells me no special attention will be given to premier episodes yet to come and we should always make tape backups off of analog cable just in case. :(

About the unreliable, my wife gets mad when I want to watch a show on HD because she knows there's a good chance of there being problems. She would rather watch on regular cable and have a great chance of no problems, then watch the better image that HD can provide.

Now that the new season is starting, has anyone heard when KTTU will start sending out a HD signal? Last I heard, it was "very soon"; well, it's very soon now and still haven't seen HD from them yet.

Tony
Here's a reply I got from Jim Cole at KTVK regarding that very question:

We are still wrangling through some equipment issues with the UPN HD stream. The technology is still in an early stage and there are some format issues that we have not yet resolved.

Jim Cole
Director of Technology
Broadcast Media
KTVK/KASW-TV

Prime time, season premieres..... KOLD broadcasts nice picture--muted audio. How lame can you get?

Prime time, season premieres..... KOLD broadcasts nice picture--muted audio. How lame can you get?

Letterman in HD, no sound either.

I'm sure they'd just blame CBS; that is if anyone even bothered to respond.

Only 99 miles up I-10 and things would be golden. I made such a mistake. :(

Rory, having lived in both places I don't think you made a mistake!

Pat

Yeah, go to the Phoenix forum here, they're HD problems are almost as bad as Tucson's.

Must be a learning problem with the networks.

Rich

Seems I was lucky by picking ABC for viewing last night ! LOST and Invasion went without a hitch (except for slight jumps in audio). If only they could appreciate the effect of seeing shows like that on a 10ft screen in Dolby Digital surround. Simply amazing! Too bad it's all so hit and miss any more.

One problem that seems to always exist (and is possibly ignored) is the syncing together of commercials and the leveling of audio. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's tired of having to quickly grab the remote to turn down the audio during commercials, or risk waking up the neighborhood!

Rory, having lived in both places I don't think you made a mistake!

Pat

They have NBC, ABC, CBS, WB, and FOX all in HD on Cox.

We have CBS.

Yes, there are a lot of problems even with our CBS-HD, but it can't be worse than having all the "major networks" sans UPN in HD on cable.

I didn't even get the opportunity to be pissed about sync problems with Lost last night, because I was watching one of the worst looking analog pictures that I've ever seen.

A newbie here, I have not been able to get CBS (13.1) for the past couple days. All I get is 'poor signal quality' with a black screen during hdtv & non HD times. I never had any problem with CBS before. Has anything changed? All my other channels are fine. Any suggestions

My search of the forum yielded that there may have been a problem a while ago, but I thought I'd get an update. The audio syncronization is about 2-3 seconds off on 27.1 and I wondered what the issue may be. 6.1 is perfect for me. What's the deal? 27.1 sometimes has stuff that is not on 6.1 or atively, it has HD broadcasts when 6.1 doesn't. Opinions?

Eric

I just try not to look at there lips when there is someone speaking on screen.

It is almost like watching a comedy sketch of a karate movie.

Why do we not see any network commercials and promos in HD? If small operators like HDNET can be fully in HD surely our big networks could be, no? TNT in HD at least upconverts everything, and seems to be doing it better than a few months ago.

Also, why is the transition from local to network so botched up. It is not smooth and often cuts off either the local or network depending on which way the switch is going. KOLD is the worst, KGUN not too bad, and KVOA seems best.

Anyone hear when any of the Tucson locals will be doing anything in HD?

Dave

Why do we not see any network commercials and promos in HD? If small operators like HDNET can be fully in HD surely our big networks could be, no? TNT in HD at least upconverts everything, and seems to be doing it better than a few months ago.
There is 1 feed for TNTHD (or maybe 2, for E/W). There are no local affiliates to botch things up. When all work is done at a central location and you don't need to send out information to local stations on how and when to switch, things are easy.
Also, why is the transition from local to network so botched up. It is not smooth and often cuts off either the local or network depending on which way the switch is going. KOLD is the worst, KGUN not too bad, and KVOA seems best.
The networks do send signals as to when stations need to switch, but the stations need to have automation equipment set up to do this switching. If they don't have the equipment or don't have it configured right, you get a messy switch.
Anyone hear when any of the Tucson locals will be doing anything in HD?

Dave
Probably about a quarter past never. There are only a few stations in the country broadcasting the news in HD, so don't hold you breath for a small market like Tucson to do it any time soon, if ever.

My search of the forum yielded that there may have been a problem a while ago, but I thought I'd get an update. The audio syncronization is about 2-3 seconds off on 27.1 and I wondered what the issue may be. 6.1 is perfect for me. What's the deal? 27.1 sometimes has stuff that is not on 6.1 or atively, it has HD broadcasts when 6.1 doesn't. Opinions?

Eric


27.1 is a full-time pass-through of the PBS HD feed with embedded audio, so there should never be a sync problem-- and especially not between 6.1 and 27.1, as they're fed from the same encoder when they're both doing HD.

As for the channel difference, 27.1 is always the national HD feed (on 24/7), while 6 broadcasts 4-SD channels from 6a - 7p, and is HD in primetime.

Why do we not see any network commercials and promos in HD? If small operators like HDNET can be fully in HD surely our big networks could be, no? TNT in HD at least upconverts everything, and seems to be doing it better than a few months ago.

Also, why is the transition from local to network so botched up. It is not smooth and often cuts off either the local or network depending on which way the switch is going. KOLD is the worst, KGUN not too bad, and KVOA seems best.

Anyone hear when any of the Tucson locals will be doing anything in HD?

Dave


KUAT has a transition plan in place, and we hope to be doing Arizona Illustrated in HD in the next 12-18 months, if we have the funding.

I know there is occasional presence by KGUN and KVOA personnel on this forum.

Yesterday you denied my HD waivers to receive your network's signals at my location via DirecTV. Between my location in NW Tucson (3000 feet) and your transmitter towers at Mt. Bigelow (8500 feet), lies Mt. Lemmon (9200 feet). There is no way a UHF signal can reliably achieve a Line-Of-Sight path to my location given that topography. Thus you cannot deliver a reliable network signal to NW Tucson.

And yet you prevent DirecTV from supplying your network signal and you do not allow ComCast to carry your local signal. What is the advantage to you in denying a customer access to your network? Do you prefer that all my viewing be on CBS and FOX via ComCast? Are you anxious to lose viewers in the NW Tucson area who are willing to go to the extra expense of cable and/or DBS for HD?

Or is it that you just - don't - care?

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Excellent post. Now that I have my HD home theater up and running I am very disappointed in KGUN's unwillingness to let Comcast carry an HD feed. I'll still watch the "big" shows (Lost and Desperate Housewives) on ABC, but when it comes to the lesser offerings; I'll watch an HD show on FOX or CBS rather than anything else ABC has to offer. As an example, consider "Invasion". That's a marginal new show strategically placed in the slot after LOST. If it were in High Def, I would probably watch every episode. As it is, after two episodes I'm more inclined to switch to one of my HD channels to watch something else. I'm sure I'm not alone. I think this is a classic case of penny wise and pound foolish. As more folks obtain HD TV's, I would imagine that the local advertisers would begin to realize that an affiliate that is seen in HD is going to attract more viewers (i.e. buyers $$$) than some clowns that are sitting on the sideline waiting for the FCC to change their rules. You would think that public relations would be important to a local business...

As an example, consider "Invasion". That's a marginal new show strategically placed in the slot after LOST. If it were in High Def, I would probably watch every episode. ...

"Invasion" is in High Def via OTA. As well as most of the primetime line up on ABC.
But if you are refereing to Comcast, then yes, ABC is SD as well as NBC, and WB58. :mad:
Have you tried to get ABC via OTA? Or any of the others? You are missing more than half of the available local HD channels if you are relying on cable for local HD.


:)

My house is at La Canada and the Del Oro Wash. I'm wondering about OTA signals. I'm pretty much down in a hole here. My questions are....1. If anyone lives close and is successful getting them? 2. What channels come in? 3rd. Using which antenna?

I have been told 3 different stories from 3 different DTV installers.

I am using the HR 10-250 (HD-Tivo), if that makes any difference.


Can't see going thru the expense and trouble, if I'm not going to be able to pull anything in. Hoping one of you guys live by...


THANKS!!!!

Rick

Rick, go here http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and plug in your location and see what it says. The various bumps on the mountains get in the way but if you can see the antenna lights at night you can probably get a very good signal. If you can't see the lights there's still a good chance you can get some signal, and with digital there's no ghosting - you either get it or not!

Patrick

"Invasion" is in High Def via OTA. As well as most of the primetime line up on ABC.


Yep, I knew that. That's why I'm complaining. I am at a bad location for OTA, so unless KGUN and Comcast can come to an agreement I'm SOL.

My house is at La Canada and the Del Oro Wash. I'm wondering about OTA signals.Keep in mind, not seeing the tower lights doesn't necessarily mean you'll get bad reception. I'm over here past Silverbell and just south of Camino del Cerro. No way do I see the lights and I could never get any analog signals even with the largest VHF array. Now with Digital, I get all the stations OTA from 65 to 90%. I use an 8-bay bowtie and preamp 6ft up from my one-story roof. I use a rotor for precision and also for picking up KUAS, WB or whatever.

It's too bad Comcast picked the two worst performers, FOX (which falls back to SD 1/2 the time) and CBS (which starts dropping audio regularly by 9pm and is not in DD). Plus, I don't think FOX audio is in DD on cable yet.

At least with OTA you have other choices. If you can go OTA without much trouble, it's definitely worth it for those few times that HD is working :rolleyes:. If you have a good surround system, you won't believe how good LOST, Invasion, Alias, etc sounds. It's like being at the movies! It's also a clearer picture than cable can provide.

Steve Somerville the CE at KGUN told me about this forum. I've been watching OTA-HD for nearly two years now and have gone through all the problems with KOLD, waiting for KVOA and KGUN to add HD to their DTV, then FOX, so I'm glad to find this forum so I can find out what's really going on out there.

It appears from reading the past few months of posts that KOLD isn't responding to this forum anymore, and whenever I've e-mailed the station they would usually blame anything on CBS and then say "we are doing our best to provide the highest-quality and uniterrupted DTV signal we can", and I always told them that they were the laughing stock of all the other DTV stations in town which have all been much more reliable, at least in my experience. I would think CBS would have some investment in making sure their local affiliate reliably shows their HD programming in HD, but I haven't been able to get any response from anyone at CBS from the numerous feedback messages I've sent the network. Does anyone know if Letterman is not in HD because of KOLD or an issue at CBS? It was in HD a few times when it first started HD, but lately I haven't seen it, I don't watch it every night however.

I've usually gotten good responses from KVOA, KGUN, and KMSB if a program isn't in HD or they are off the air for some reason, KOLD is a black hole though. I've been contacting titantv also since they weren't showing HD programs on the WB 58.1 with the HD indicator, and for some reason a lot of the HD tags were missing the first week of the new season and for the new shows this season. I think they've gotten all of that straightened out now.

So I was just wondering about Letterman, and will keep an eye on this forum now that I know about it.

Thx!

I'm near N. Camino de Oste and Linda Vista (across the street or north of Arthur Pack/Mountain View H.S.) and I am able to receive all of the local digital/HD stations. I'm using a Channel Master 4228 UHF 8-bay antenna, and a Radio Shack pre-amp. I have a Voom and a Zenith receiver. The two are fairly comparable in reception except for CBS, which the Voom does a better job of pulling it in, plus the Voom box is much faster at changing channels. My antenna is fixed in place and mounted to my chimney on a single story house. From my location I am able to pick up all available digital channels with most at a signal strength of 90 or better except for 40 which is in the 70's. ABC and Fox are the strongest at 98-99.
I did a lot of experimenting to get them all and then even more without having to use a rotor. I even spent time on the phone with the engineer at KOLD before he left. He told me to try my antenna near the ground, which did not work at all. Now its probably 15-20 feet or so in the air. Looking from my antenna there is a clear line of site all the way to the Mountain. And just for info, I can not see any of the transmitter lights, I can't even see the mountain. All I see is Mt. Lemon.
I took a small TV up on the roof, put my antenna on a six foot pole, and walked (carefully) from one end to the other until I found the strongest area. I also tried this on the ground without much success.
Hope this helps.

:cool:

Does anyone know if Letterman is not in HD because of KOLD or an issue at CBS? It was in HD a few times when it first started HD, but lately I haven't seen it, I don't watch it every night however.


I've been watching it off and on and I've noticed that at the start of the show KOLD has been putting up a banner that reads " Letterman will not be in High Definition because it is a replay....we apologize for the inconvenience" or something like that. I don't remember it word for word but the ticker comes on right at the start of the show and does not come on again. The only time I have seen it in HD was on a couple of new shows. They might need to show the ticker again after commercial breaks so viewers who tune in late at least know some reason why it's not in HD. :confused:

I've been contacting titantv also since they weren't showing HD programs on the WB 58.1 Thx!

I was flipping channels and stopped on WB58 and sure enough there was a show in HD. I double-checked the channel to make sure that I was on WB58. I even called my wife to come look. I don't usually watch WB58 but if they are going to start showing HD, I might be spending more time watching. I'm to the point now that if it's not in HD, I have a real hard time watching. Unless it's something really important or special, I just can't seem to watch it. Is anyone else like this?

I'm near N. Camino de Oste and Linda Vista (across the street or north of Arthur Pack/Mountain View H.S.) and I am able to receive all of the local digital/HD stations. I'm using a Channel Master 4228 UHF 8-bay antenna, and a Radio Shack pre-amp. I have a Voom and a Zenith receiver. The two are fairly comparable in reception except for CBS, which the Voom does a better job of pulling it in, plus the Voom box is much faster at changing channels. My antenna is fixed in place and mounted to my chimney on a single story house. From my location I am able to pick up all available digital channels with most at a signal strength of 90 or better except for 40 which is in the 70's. ABC and Fox are the strongest at 98-99.
I did a lot of experimenting to get them all and then even more without having to use a rotor. I even spent time on the phone with the engineer at KOLD before he left. He told me to try my antenna near the ground, which did not work at all. Now its probably 15-20 feet or so in the air. Looking from my antenna there is a clear line of site all the way to the Mountain. And just for info, I can not see any of the transmitter lights, I can't even see the mountain. All I see is Mt. Lemon.
I took a small TV up on the roof, put my antenna on a six foot pole, and walked (carefully) from one end to the other until I found the strongest area. I also tried this on the ground without much success.
Hope this helps.

:cool:

From where you are, you have a pretty good line-of-sight. I'm pretty much behind Pusch Ridge from 'the' mountain. I can't see ANY lights, at all. Can't really see over the hill (1/4 mile). It's really a hole here, as you can imagine. (My home is ON the wash)

I really don't know if the time and effort would be worth it? I'm sure it's going to be a long time before the Tucson locals are fed to us in HD. THAT is what makes me want to go ahead and try. (Wife says I'm crazy, we have ENOUGH tv!) What else is new?

When the DTV tech was here I asked him to go ahead and run the cable for an antenna, he said "we use a diplexer, and split the existing cable for it" Is that correct?


And is your antenna VHF and UHF? SORRY, I'm new to local antennas, and never previously had a problem.



Rick (Old C Band guy.....)

Excellent post. Now that I have my HD home theater up and running I am very disappointed in KGUN's unwillingness to let Comcast carry an HD feed. I'll still watch the "big" shows (Lost and Desperate Housewives) on ABC, but when it comes to the lesser offerings; I'll watch an HD show on FOX or CBS rather than anything else ABC has to offer. As an example, consider "Invasion". That's a marginal new show strategically placed in the slot after LOST. If it were in High Def, I would probably watch every episode. As it is, after two episodes I'm more inclined to switch to one of my HD channels to watch something else. I'm sure I'm not alone. I think this is a classic case of penny wise and pound foolish. As more folks obtain HD TV's, I would imagine that the local advertisers would begin to realize that an affiliate that is seen in HD is going to attract more viewers (i.e. buyers $$$) than some clowns that are sitting on the sideline waiting for the FCC to change their rules. You would think that public relations would be important to a local business...

They couldn't care less about you or me.

And, sadly, there is no real movement here, in Tucson, to put real pressure on these affiliates and their owners and GMs. I communicated very politely to one of the local channels and the response that I got about when we'd be getting their HD channel on Cox started with the line "You need to relax and take a chill pill."

Those are the words of a GM of a network affiliate to one of its viewers. I haven't heard that line since the 80's and coming from 17 year old. Trust me, these people laugh at most of the e-mails and then they delete them.

I've spoken to one writer for the Star and he's planning to do an article on what's really going on, but I promise you it will be nothing but a fluff piece. No one is leading a charge here and they'll take there time and treat you like dirt and think nothing of it.

I've never seen something like this anywhere else. And I've lived in Scottsdale, San Luis Obispo and San Jose. Tucson is like no other place when it comes to things like these. I can't really explain it.

Most of my e-mails about HD and Cox were never responded to either. And Cox is not helpful at all. For what I pay them, they should either explain to me what's going on or find a way to resolve their issue with ABC, FOX, WB, and NBC. Of course, having dealt with some of their staff about this issue and been totally blown off and treated rudely, for the first time in my life I feel bad for the people at Cox trying to negotiate with these people.

KOLD shares their feed with Cox and I'm grateful, but if it's really that complicated that we all get horrible pixelating and sound drop off, how about putting info on their website explaining the process of what they're doing and that they're aware of the problem and care about solving it. Just being polite and honest goes a long way, but they don't seem to get that.

The others aren't worth mentioning. They just don't care whether you have cable or not and they'll hold out until they get paid or someone really shines a light on them and calls them out for what they are. But most likely they'll just keep withholding their HD signal until they are actually worried that there are enough viewers with HD tvs willing to switch channels or until Cox pays them off.

In the meantime, not one single person loses a minute of sleep worrying about whether they're doing the right thing, in not only not sharing the feed, not only making sure the pic and sound are good, but in just treating the viewers with respect when they write or call. I know they come here and I've been told they don't take it seriously at all. If they did, things would already have changed.

But I will remember when they're at the bottom of the ratings barrel and desperate for viewers, because most shows come out on dvd quickly and there are a lot of channels to choose from. And if anyone has looked at NBC's primetime lineup, you'd think they be racing to get us the HD feed and a perfect one at that. It wouldn't make most of their shows any better, but it just get me and others to give some of them a chance and maybe cut into the ratings of the other networks because they'd be only 1 of 2 national channels that I'd be able to watch in HD. It's a no-brainer that this would be good for them, which explains, if you read between the lines, why they HAVEN'T done it.

I wonder if the GMs of the local stations that do not allow the cable companies to carry their signals realize that there are many of us that would rather watch ANYTHING in HD instead of something that isn't?

I wonder if the GMs of the local stations that do not allow the cable companies to carry their signals realize that there are many of us that would rather watch ANYTHING in HD instead of something that isn't?I other words the medium is the message? Never mind, you're probably too young. Point being that there's plenty that I wouldn't watch even if it could be presented in 3-D in the middle of my living room -- and plenty of quaility stuff that, alas, will probably never be HD.

When the DTV tech was here I asked him to go ahead and run the cable for an antenna, he said "we use a diplexer, and split the existing cable for it" Is that correct?I bought a couple of diplexers at Radio Shack when I first set up my antenna and they seemed to work in allowing the OTA signal and the DT signal to co-exist on one cable. I ended up not using them as I located my antenna in another area and returned them as they were expensive.

If you are in a weak signal area I would not use diplexers as they rob signal strength, as I understand it.

I other words the medium is the message? Never mind, you're probably too young. Point being that there's plenty that I wouldn't watch even if it could be presented in 3-D in the middle of my living room -- and plenty of quaility stuff that, alas, will probably never be HD.

I am almost 40, so I am not sure that makes to too young in your book or not, but it doesn't really matter.

I have invested a lot of money in my home theatre setup, and the latest was my 50" HD television. If the local channels can't see that those of us who have invested the money in HD are also the ones that have the disposable income that their advertisers are going after, that is their problem. Probably the only people that they would listen to are the advertisers.

It has also been mentioned that most shows end up on DVD rather quickly now, so if there is nothing on the handful of HD channels I do get, there is always something I can watch. I am a patient man, I can wait for the DVD, watch the entire season at my leisure, and better yet, with no commercials.

Like it or not, the local affiliates are losing viewers over this.

I am almost 40, so I am not sure that makes to too young in your book or not, but it doesn't really matter. Caught once more by the ambiguousness of communication in internet forums. Please accept my apology. I didn't intend to imply that you were too young for me to take your opinion seriously, but (because I'm getting so old) that you were likely too young for my reference to McLuhan's The Medium is the Message. I don't often get to turn a clever phrase and I realized as soon as I typed it that it might a little obscure in 2005.
I have invested a lot of money in my home theatre setup, and the latest was my 50" HD television. If the local channels can't see that those of us who have invested the money in HD are also the ones that have the disposable income that their advertisers are going after, that is their problem. Probably the only people that they would listen to are the advertisers. And there you have hit it on the head. It is a purely business decision for them. Right now the only business pressure driving them is the desire to be paid for the programming that they control. They do, after all, have exclusive rights. When they decide that there are revenue losses that offset that potential gain, they will choose differently. I wouldn't expect that to happen in the near term, though. They're playing chicken with the cablecos. The cable company is counting the pressure on the locals to provide their HD signals growing as more homes become HD aware until they finally reach that equilibrium point (the point where revenue losses = potential royalty gains). OTOH the Local station is counting on the same pressure eventually to cause the cableco to give in and pay them for it. It has also been mentioned that most shows end up on DVD rather quickly now, so if there is nothing on the handful of HD channels I do get, there is always something I can watch. I am a patient man, I can wait for the DVD, watch the entire season at my leisure, and better yet, with no commercials.Which is slightly different than the statement I originally responded to. My point was merely that I'd rather watch something worth watching than something bad in HD. I too spent more than I thought I would ever convince my wife to allow, but I still won't watch something just because it's HD. I'm fortunate enough to receive the local HD broadcasts OTA. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I couldn't. I haven't been a cable subscriber since 1987.

I just checked the sitcoms on CBS that I recorded on ReplayTV and it appears none of them were in HD tonight. Is this our wonderful local affiliate KOLD giving us the shaft again with SD instead of HD or does anyone know if it was available in HD from CBS at all? They must have had another glitch in their delay server so they couldn't show anything primetime tonight in HD, thank you KOLD.

" Letterman will not be in High Definition because it is a replay....we apologize for the inconvenience"

Thanks for the info regarding the Letterman show. I can understand why replays wouldn't be in HD because they weren't originally in HD to begin with. I could have sworn I was watching some new shows though that were also not in HD. I hope if it's because of KOLD they get their act together sooner than later, although that's wishful thinking based on past performance.

Just got in from Vegas and...what a bummer ! OTA is tough and cable is ...well..you know. One thing I can say about Tucson is the FM stations sure take RDS seriously. Wonder why the TV stations can't take HD seriously.

I just checked the sitcoms on CBS that I recorded on ReplayTV and it appears none of them were in HD tonight.How could you know? My ReplayTV boxes can't record HD. Anyhow the one's I recorded on HDTiVo were also not in HD. Is this our wonderful local affiliate KOLD giving us the shaft again with SD instead of HD or does anyone know if it was available in HD from CBS at all? They must have had another glitch in their delay server so they couldn't show anything primetime tonight in HD, thank you KOLD.They did switch on HD for CSI Miami at 9:00.

I just checked the sitcoms on CBS that I recorded on ReplayTV and it appears none of them were in HD tonight. Is this our wonderful local affiliate KOLD giving us the shaft again with SD instead of HD or does anyone know if it was available in HD from CBS at all? They must have had another glitch in their delay server so they couldn't show anything primetime tonight in HD, thank you KOLD.

At least they're trying to give us HD though as many avenues as possible, unlike other affiliates.

And speaking of those avenues, is the KOLD feed on cox always as blocky as it was last night during CSI:Miami? I switched to OTA halfway though because every time there was a scene switch or fast motion, all I saw were blocks. Looked perfect OTA.

I don't know if this is a fluke or what, but last night I watched three hours of HD without a single glitch. Surface(4.1), Just Legal(58.1), and Medium(4.1) were all perfect (OTA). It was getting to the point that my wife would only TIVO programs in SD because of the likelihood of problems on HD. Things are looking better. -RP

How could you know? My ReplayTV boxes can't record HD. Anyhow the one's I recorded on HDTiVo were also not in HD. They did switch on HD for CSI Miami at 9:00.

Ahh, but you can record a downconverted HD feed via the cable box (Comcast Moto DCT-6200) at 480i: The comcast HD box in my living room is setup for 480i which I feed (via S-Video, since this is better than component on Replay's) to a Replay box. If things were working right(HD) at KOLD the result is a letterboxed Letterman (for instance..) if not(SD), which as we all know is the norm, you get a postage stamped Letterman.

The picture quality is very good if KOLD gets it right in HD. Someday I will have a decent HD set in the living room. :p

Ahh, but you can record a downconverted HD feed via the cable box (Comcast Moto DCT-6200) at 480i: The comcast HD box in my living room is setup for 480i which I feed (via S-Video, since this is better than component on Replay's) to a Replay box. If things were working right(HD) at KOLD the result is a letterboxed Letterman (for instance..) :pDuh. As usual the answer is simple once you know it. What's component? My Replays are too old to have it.
(They're actually Panasonic Showstoppers.)

How could you know? My ReplayTV boxes can't record HD.

No I can't record HD on my ReplayTV, but recording in High quality and in Full mode from my Samsung 151 tuner via S-video even though it's only 480i, it looks pretty decent and fills the screen without fat people when I set my TV to wide mode so I can tell if it was in HD or not.

They did have CSI Miami in HD and Letterman as well, so no they aren't always out of whack, but in my experience the past year or more NBC and ABC and FOX and now the WB have had nearly everything in HD they were supposed to, but CBS/KOLD has been 80/20 at best. UPN is struggling because they have to use a delay server whereas FOX is just a pass through locally so all that is handled up the chain somewhere I guess.

Steve S. from KGUN, if you see this message, there's a serious problem with the sound now and I think it's happening in the control room.

Sat night during Invasion for several minutes after a commercial break you could not hear the voices for the program. I turned my receiver up from 40 to 60 and could hear the background music just fine but no voices, very similar to the Little League and Lost sound problems, but in those instances I could still hear the voices somewhat they were just very quiet, this time I couldn't hear anything no matter how high I turned up the volume. I noticed my receiver was showing PL II instead of Dolby D and then after the few minutes without voices, it changed to Dolby D and the sound was normal again so I'm guessing someone in the control room changed the setting and it started working.

This happened again Sun night during Grey's Anatomy. The last segment of the show had the same problem, you could not hear the voices only the background music and again it was showing PL II instead of Dolby D and it didn't change this time so nobody must have noticed to flip the switch to fix the problem. This really disrupts the viewing of a show when you can't hear the dialogue no matter what you have things set to and even if you use red/white RCA into the TV. This didn't used to happen before when they forgot to change back to Dolby for the HD program after switching to PL II for the commercials and it's a big problem when you can't hear the sound.

Please let me know if you're aware of this happening both Sat and Sun night and if there's anything that can be done to prevent it in the future other than relying on them switching during the shows because that doesn't seem to be reliable enough.

Thank You

This also happend to me tonight while watching invasion. I had to turn my TV off and on to get the audio back in sync, very annoying.

The loss of audio occurs when the programming is in DD3/2.1 but the encoder is set to DD2/0. The result is that there is no center channel processing, and may or may not be anything heard from the surround channels. At this point I'm inclined to just leave the encoder in DD3/2.1 to avoid the occurence during programming when it is most disruptive at the viewer's end. At least until we have a way to automate the DD encoder switching.

Hi cesomerville, I am using the Tv's (TH-42PD50U) onboard speakers at the moment. Is there a setting somewhere that I can change to keep this from happening? I am wondering if the plasma is defective.

There is most likely nothing wrong at your end. We are attempting to manually switch the audio modes on the station end to match the program audio. When the switch is not made properly we cause the loss of audio at your end.

FYI. I was watching Invasion and heard the loss of audio. I called Master Control and had them switch to the correct audio mode. It was coincidental that you power cycled your set and the audio was back.

At this point I'm inclined to just leave the encoder in DD3/2.1 to avoid the occurence during programming when it is most disruptive at the viewer's end.

Thanks for the reply Steve, and this probably is the best option at this point. I haven't noticed the large increase in volume lately for the commercials when the sound format stays DD because sometimes they miss the switch for that as well.

Perhaps you could still have it 2.0 during the day when there isn't any HD programming on anyways, and again at 10 for the news and the rest of the night, but leave it in 3/2.1 for primetime or starting at 6 for MNF and on the weekends whenever the HD stuff for the night starts, and not try to switch it for commercials during that period of time.

Thx!

When I lived in Seattle (moved to Tucson in April), I had to regularly call the local stations to tell them to "throw the switch" on HD broadcasts. The usual problem was that they were not transmitting in 16 X 9 but sound problems were not uncommon either. My technique was to call the station number, press the "breaking news" number and tell whoever answers to tell the control room what was wrong. That usually fixed the problem in a few seconds. I had to do this so often that I had the stations on my phone speed dial...
Jim

Don't any of the employees of the stations actually watch the station?

Don't any of the employees of the stations actually watch the station?


Master control operators are probably focused on the SD feed. It's easy to watch multiple video feeds for errors... hard to listen to multiple audio feeds at once, and since a majority of the viewers are watching the SD feed, that's the one that's probably on in master control.

I'm looking for the Latitude & Longitude of the transmitters on Mt. Bigelow. Any one, or anything close will do.

I'm looking for the Latitude & Longitude of the transmitters on Mt. Bigelow. Any one, or anything close will do.
I believe it's something around 32 degrees 24'55 N/110 degrees 42'52 W.

Today I saw TNT-HD on my Cox lineup, and it's functional. Good Stuff :)

I'm looking for the Latitude & Longitude of the transmitters on Mt. Bigelow. Any one, or anything close will do.
FCC TV Query for Tucson (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=AZ&call=&arn=&city=Tucson&chan=&cha2=69&serv=DT&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9)
Scroll to the right and you will see longitude & latitude columns.

FCC TV Query for Tucson (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=AZ&call=&arn=&city=Tucson&chan=&cha2=69&serv=DT&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9)
Scroll to the right and you will see longitude & latitude columns.
Ok, Impressed. Where's the start point for this type of search?

Today I saw TNT-HD on my Cox lineup, and it's functional. Good Stuff :)

Another channel to keep me from watching ABC, NBC, FOX, and WB.

Keep 'em coming.

PS- They told me they were adding this channel about a month ago and I have been drooling at watching the X-Files in HD.

Wouldn't you know it, TNT has been showing X-Files like 5 times a night, one after another, and this week they altered their schedule out of the blue and it doesn't seem to be on at all again for the rest of the week. Damn, my luck.

It does appear to be back on next week, so, hopefully, I can finally see HD Scully.

When I lived in Seattle (moved to Tucson in April), I had to regularly call the local stations to tell them to "throw the switch" on HD broadcasts. The usual problem was that they were not transmitting in 16 X 9 but sound problems were not uncommon either. My technique was to call the station number, press the "breaking news" number and tell whoever answers to tell the control room what was wrong. That usually fixed the problem in a few seconds. I had to do this so often that I had the stations on my phone speed dial...
Jim

And they eventually forced you to flee from the Pacific Northwest, I'm guessing.

Another channel to keep me from watching ABC, NBC, FOX, and WB.

Keep 'em coming.

PS- They told me they were adding this channel about a month ago and I have been drooling at watching the X-Files in HD.

Wouldn't you know it, TNT has been showing X-Files like 5 times a night, one after another, and this week they altered their schedule out of the blue and it doesn't seem to be on at all again for the rest of the week. Damn, my luck.

It does appear to be back on next week, so, hopefully, I can finally see HD Scully.
But X-Files wasn't shot in HD. So????? No Difference?

Getting TNT in HD doesn't really mean nothing unless the show was originally shot in HD.....right? And since TNT is playing reruns from the 90's, most of those shows had not even heard of HD.

Never really understood the excitement about TNT in HD.

Well film looks pretty good in HD way better than SD video upconverted. Most if of the Xfiles was shot with film as I recall. I'm not as thrilled about all the commercials but hey they have to eat too.
Cool site for the transmitters BTW here is a link to the two general areas from Google maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=from%3A+%2B32%C2%B0+24'+56.00%22,+-110%C2%B0+42'+49.00%22+(32.415556,+-110.713611)+to%3A+N+32+12+53.00++W+111++0+21.00&ll=32.316152,-110.843811&spn=0.369904,0.524460&f=d&hl=en

Well film looks pretty good in HD way better than SD video upconverted. Most if of the Xfiles was shot with film as I recall. I'm not as thrilled about all the commercials but hey they have to eat too.
Cool site for the transmitters BTW here is a link to the two general areas from Google maps:
Maybe I'm confused here, but does TNT have the original film for X-files and are they being converted to HD by TNT? I don't think so. I don't know how TNT gets the X-Files but I'm guessing it's via video, not HD or maybe a SAT feed but regardless if it's being broadcast in HD or SD or Analog, I really don't think one would see a difference. If someone has any other info on this I would welcome an education on how this works.

My understanding of this technology is that if you're not digitally recording a show for broadcast in HD you can't do it later without ALOT of work. Someone please correct me here if I'm wrong.

Edit: Oh, BTW, a true HD Scully or Mulder could be more scary than some of the guys they were chasing around.

Never really understood the excitement about TNT in HD.


For me, it's about Nascar. Sports is mostly why I got my HDTV. I'm not sure if the other stuff TNT does is in HD. I imagine some of their NBA will be HD, but I'm not too sure. I prefer college basketball.

Ok, Impressed. Where's the start point for this type of search?
FCC TV Query (start point) (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html)
Great tool. Have fun. :)

[Great tool. Have fun. :)[/QUOTE]

Super site, informative, and lot's of fun when combined with Google Earth.

Was the baseball game on Fox last night in HD for anybody here in town? It wasn't for me, how about nationwide?

I'm looking for the Latitude & Longitude of the transmitters on Mt. Bigelow. Any one, or anything close will do.
Microsoft Streets and Trips is another way to obtain the lat and long for any location as long as you can find it on a map. :eek:

Anybody else having problems with KTTU digital signal? Using Dish 811, I get a signal around 80. I tune to the station and get a black screen. If I wait 2 to 3 minutes, the picture and sound come on and it's smooth sailing....

Anybody else having problems with KTTU digital signal? Using Dish 811, I get a signal around 80. I tune to the station and get a black screen. If I wait 2 to 3 minutes, the picture and sound come on and it's smooth sailing....
Yes. My tuner shows a strong signal, but I just see a black screen and no audio. I never thought of waiting 2-3 minutes, so I just tried it and still no picture.

Anybody else having problems with KTTU digital signal? Using Dish 811, I get a signal around 80. I tune to the station and get a black screen. If I wait 2 to 3 minutes, the picture and sound come on and it's smooth sailing....

I noticed the same thing on a neighbor's 6000. However on my HR10-250, the signal just pops in as usual. Wonder if it has to do with PSIP or lack thereof?

Tony

Anybody else having problems with KTTU digital signal?

Yes I'm having trouble with KTTU also, started last week Wed when the picture was frozen for several hours but the sound was okay. I have an Accurian receiver I just got from Radio Shack and for the past week it can get the picture on KTTU but no sound. I'm pretty sure it had sound before since I've had the tuner now for a few weeks. On my Samsung SIR-T165 I get picture and sound, but it's taking longer than normal for the channel to display on both receivers. I asked the engineer for KMSB and KTTU about it and he wasn't aware of the picture freezing problem on Wed or the sound problem. At first I thought the sound was out completely, then I found one tuner could get sound and the other couldn't. It appears it's not just the new Accurian tuner though, if other people are also having problems, it sounds like a problem with their broadcast. I will ask the engineer about it again tomorrow.

I also want to know why the baseball playoff game on Fri night wasn't in HD because according to another thread it was in HD at other places across the country so it should have been HD here also. The engineer has always told me they just pass the signal through from Fox, but if that's the case and it was HD in other places then why wasn't it in HD here that night?

Did everyone else lose KOLD last night because yep it rained again like it tends to do every once in awhile here in the Old Pueblo (thank goodness this isn't Seattle) and of course the KOLD DTV signal is so sensitive and the equipment so fragile that it doesn't survive through a rain storm and the signal is lost.

KMSB was having some signal degradation also because the playoff game was tuning in slowly (I was switching back and forth from MNF) and showing channel 25 instead of 11.

ABC and NBC and PBS, etc. were just fine though no problems, so it can be done, if they care to do it.

Hi,

Today when I watched some of the Cox HD channels I heard a ticking. About 10-15 seconds between ticks. Did/Does anyone else have this problem? I had the problem on all the HD channels I get.

The SD channels are fine, and I'm only using the red/white audio to the TV right now. I called Cox and they offered to send a service call, but if it's not their equipement then they said it would cost me $50, so I'm going to wait a couple of days. If it's still a problem then I'll try different cable outlets and TV's just to be sure.

Thanks
Billy

Also, TNTHD was losing signal periodically and getting a lot of green blocks. Not sure if it's related as I haven't watched it much since it was available.

I get a strong signal on KTTU but have had no picture or sound for quite a while.

Tom

Im getting 83 for signal strenght for KTTU but no picture...been that way for a week or more.

I don't think I watch KTTU but a few times a year. I just tuned to 18-1 to check and had video and audio. This isn't prime time so I don't know if that matters.

I will ask the engineer about it again tomorrow.



Did you get to talk with the engineer? I sent a message following the link on kttu.com to engineer@kttu.com and got a bounce back saying it wasn't a valid box....

My - E Mail to KTTU also didn't go thru.

Sorry I forgot to e-mail the engineer at KTTU yesterday, and now we have winners at KGUN and KVOA, both Air Force One and Chicago which were supposed to be in HD are not. At least the ball game is in HD. Now I'll have to check with Ray Depa at KGUN and Dave Kerrigan at KVOA why the movies tonight weren't in HD like they were supposed to be. I'll also check on KTTU because there's obviously a problem even though so far they haven't admitted to anything. Normally I hear back from Denison within a day or two at the most, so that might say something in and of itself.

Hey guys,
Same story for me. My tuner locks in on 18-1 (CH. 19 KTTU - DT) and I have a pretty strong signal @ 80 + % however there's no picture/programming. Also, I've lost my 6-1 PBS station. The tuner won't even recognize it. I,m still getting 6-2 thru 6-5 and the programming runs 24/7 on those four stations instead of going off-air in the evenings. Anyone else having this problem? Appreciate your responses. Thanks.

Here's the response I got from the KTTU Engineer regarding the 18-1 problems, so he's duplicated the problem and needs to figure out what's wrong.

I will look into this for you a bit closer. I believe there is a problem of some sort. I have no problem receiving KTTU here at the station on two different receivers. However, I did some playing this weekend and discovered that some receivers do not decode the bit stream. For example I deleted the KTTU entry from my home receiver and added it back in. When I did that I could no longer decode the bit stream. Not sure why but something is not right. It was working fine at home until I did that.

KVOA said their HD Delay Server had problems Sat night so that's why Chicago wasn't in HD. Medium was breaking up last night also and towards the end it went to SD so they must still be having problems with the Delay Server.

Very nice to have a place to go that gets the attention of the engineer. Thanks for getting the message through....

1:00 Tucson time (A.M.) KTTU signal is down. Hopefully, tomorrow the signal will be back with picture and sound...

KTTU Digital is back online and working on my Dish 811. Thanks opnupurize for the effort.

No HD from FOX 11 on the WS Game 4 as of second inning at 6:08pm

No HD from FOX 11 on the WS Game 4 as of second inning at 6:08pm
:mad: :mad: :eek: :mad: :mad:

HD back on at bottom of the 6th thanks whoever you are!

KTTU Digital is back online and working on my Dish 811. Thanks opnupurize for the effort.
Yep, I'm getting KTTU-DT 18.1 now on all my digital tuners.

No HD from FOX 11 on the WS Game 4 as of second inning at 6:08pm


KMSB HD always goes out during sporting events it seems.

I tend to watch AFC football more, but it seems like when flipping to Fox, the HD is out for at least half the game every week.

I halfway expected KMSB to be a little more attentive to the World Series, since it's the World Series and all. But apparently that isn't important enough to have someone watching the broadcast to make sure it's correct.

You would think, since it's a problem, they would pay a little bit more attention.

Oh well. Hopefully they'll get their act together by the time Nascar starts up again on FOX.

We recently moved to Tucson from California. Back there we had all of the networks OTA. All of them were DD 5.1 capable and would broadcast using 5.1 encoding whenever the network feed them a 5.1 stream.

We receive all of the Tucson local HD channels OTA but have yet to receive any DD 5.1 audio. Do any of the local channels broadcast the 5.1 stream OTA? If not, how are they encoding the 5.1 information in the audio stream they broadcast? Is it just the two front channels or are they Dolby PL or PL II encoding it?

Is COX cable sending a DD 5.1 stream with any of the HD channels they offer?

Thanks.

KTTU Digital is back online and working on my Dish 811. Thanks opnupurize for the effort.

Thanks to everyone else here confirming they were also having problems, otherwise this might not be fixed yet.

I will contact Jim Cole up in Phoenix who is the engineer up there for FOX to ask some more about these 1/2 HD and 1/2 SD Baseball Playoff games and Football games. Whenever I've asked the KMSB engineer here or Jim in the past, they've always said they just pass through the signal from FOX and there aren't any switches to flip or way they can control whether it's an SD or HD picture locally.

There have been too many instances lately though where it hasn't been HD here in town and it has been otherwise throughout the country so there must be something in Phoenix or here at KMSB that's affecting the HD for the sports.

I have asked about the sound on KMSB before back when they first started broadcasting HD and the KMSB engineer at that time (there is a newer one now) said everything was controlled up in Phoenix and the broadcast fed from there down here and relayed through the Tucson broadcast equipment. I'm not sure if that's the case still or where the opportunities are in the broadcast stream for the HD to be lost, but I'm going to find out if I can.

If something in Phoenix or here at KMSB in town is causing the HD to be lost, they do need to take it more seriously and watch it more closely.

We recently moved to Tucson from California. Back there we had all of the networks OTA. All of them were DD 5.1 capable and would broadcast using 5.1 encoding whenever the network feed them a 5.1 stream.

We receive all of the Tucson local HD channels OTA but have yet to receive any DD 5.1 audio. Do any of the local channels broadcast the 5.1 stream OTA? If not, how are they encoding the 5.1 information in the audio stream they broadcast? Is it just the two front channels or are they Dolby PL or PL II encoding it?

Is COX cable sending a DD 5.1 stream with any of the HD channels they offer?

Thanks.

For now, both the FOX(11-1) and ABC (9-1) affiliates are broadcasting in 5.1 where appropriate. CBS (13-1) was supposed to be getting equipment for 5.1 but no word has been heard for about 4 months. It's unknown if NBC (4-1) is ever going to broadcast 5.1.

HTH
Tony

Hopefully CBS gets their act together soon.

Back in California NBC was the least supportive of HD. Must be a network thing.

According to KGUN, Air Force One Sat night a weekend ago was sent from ABC in SD even though the checkHD listings showed it was supposed to be in HD, and Monster's Inc. wasn't in HD this weekend Sat night because of problems with their HD Delay Server.

I'm still waiting for another reply from Jim Cole the FOX guy up in Phx. I got a message from him today saying that he's been out on vacation, so I asked him about World Series Game 4 as to why it lost HD from the 2nd inning to the 6th inning and if there's any way we can contact someone if we notice that happening in the future (he's said in the past that the HD switch is automatic, but it might not switch back after a break for some reason and they don't monitor the DTV Broadcast very closely). Hopefully he will give us a way to contact whoever is at the switch up in Phx if that's the only thing preventing it from being in HD when it should be otherwise. Sometimes it's a Fox thing and there's nothing they can do about it here locally.

I'm still waiting to hear back from John Anderson at KUAT about channel 6-1, and if they are still going to have a HD channel at night or just the 4 SD channels 6-2 through 6-5.

Hopefully CBS gets their act together soon.


I don't think it's a CBS issue, unless by CBS you mean KOLD the local CBS affiliate. I'm pretty sure the CBS HD broadcast is available in 5.1, but the local CBS affiliate KOLD has one of the shakiest DTV infrastructures of all the stations that's why they keep going off the air whenever it rains on the mountain. Since they aren't even spending to upgrade their current shoddy equipment, I doubt we're going to see any Dolby 5.1 sound out of them anytime soon.

I think the FOX guys said they can only afford to do the 5.1 sound because they are passing the signal through rather than delaying it with their own server locally and then broadcasting it. Maybe the stations here in town could get rid of some meterologists to pay for the better DTV equipment. Other than during the monsoon season, do we really need anyone to tell us what it's going to be like today, tomorrow, or next week?

KGUN is pixeling this Tuesday morning, with signal strength jumping from 60 to 40 and my TV occassionally and briefly unable to find a signal (less than 35?).

Anyone else seeing this or do I get a trip up to the roof for a little antenna manipulation?

Patrick
Near Sabino Canyon

For anyone that is wondering what happened to the KUAT-DT (PBS) 6-1 feed, it is no longer airing. I e-mailed the station last Friday and their Chief Engineer, John Anderson, got right back to me with an answer. Apparently the Programming Deptartment decided to drop 6-1 and air more programming on the other four stations (6-2 thru 6-5). They did however, also decide to increase their HD programming on their sister station KUAS-DT (27-1). So if your working with over-the-air UHF antennas like myself, and you want PBS HD content, you'll need to pick up the transmission from Tumamoc Hill to the Southwest of Tucson.

"6-1 is no more"

Well, this is bad news for me since I am between the antennas and to get 27-1 would require, I'm guessing, a second antenna or a rotor. Bummer.

I'm in the same boat. I've already written my "Bring back 6.1" letter to Jack Parris at KUAT-TV.

Yeah guys - my solution to getting the PBS HD feed on 27-1 (KUAS-DT) was to put up a second, small, UHF antenna on the same pole as my northeast facing antenna. I then pointed this second antenna to the WSW and ran both antenna's cables into a A-B coax cable switch box by the TV. This way you can switch between Mt. Bigelows transmitters and Tumamoc Hills transmitters. I live way out east at Speedway & Harrison and pick up the Tumamoc signals just fine. This second antenna will also get you WB (58-1) and some other spanish language stations. Now all I need is a remote control A-B switch so I don't have to get my lazy butt off the couch to make a switch. Later.

I'm very disapointed to hear about KAUT 6.1. I had of course noticed it was missing, but was hoping it was just off air for repairs or something. I certainly don't wish to install a second antenna just to get 27.1 OTA to my DishNetwork 921, and am not even sure that would work here in Green Valley. What are they thinking? I'm simply not real happy with KAUT right now.

Yeah guys - my solution to getting the PBS HD feed on 27-1 (KUAS-DT) was to put up a second, small, UHF antenna on the same pole as my northeast facing antenna. I then pointed this second antenna to the WSW and ran both antenna's cables into a A-B coax cable switch box by the TV. This way you can switch between Mt. Bigelows transmitters and Tumamoc Hills transmitters. I live way out east at Speedway & Harrison and pick up the Tumamoc signals just fine. This second antenna will also get you WB (58-1) and some other spanish language stations. Now all I need is a remote control A-B switch so I don't have to get my lazy butt off the couch to make a switch. Later.I wonder if there is any other way to multiplex two antennas on the pole so that a second line, or inside switch, is required?

Any of you techinical guys out there know if this is possible?

Pat
And now, for an OT comment:
NO $100 million Snyder Road bridge over Sabino Creek!!

I wonder if there is any other way to multiplex two antennas on the pole so that a second line, or inside switch, is required?


Maybe this jointenna thing that ChannelMaster has
http://www.channelmaster.com/Pages/TVS/Passives.htm

Maybe this jointenna thing that ChannelMaster has
http://www.channelmaster.com/Pages/TVS/Passives.htmThat looks like it would work! Thanks very much.

And thanks to PBS for the extra costs I may be incurring!

Pat

Anyone else having trouble with sound via ESPN-HD on COX? I keep losing sound when they go to local ad net commericals. Both on the College and NFL Sat/Sun prime time games.

The same thing happens to me but it doesnt really bother me since its only during commercials.

Yeah well I wound not care so much either if my Tuner would recover I have to manually switch Dolby modes to get audio back during the game.

This isn't HD related, but I don't know of a better place to ask...

Monday night my recordings of How I Met Your Mother and Two and a Half Men were black for most of the recordings. This was on regular Cox cable.

I'm curious as to whether anyone else had problems around 8PM on Monday with CBS KOLD 13?

Recordings on other channels were fine, and the end of Two and a Half Men was fine. I'm mostly trying to find out if I need to troublshoot my Myth setup or if it was something else.

Thanks

Oh and so that this is slightly on topic, I lose audio on local ESPNHD commercials on Cox. But I'm in the boat where it doesn't affect me as my stereo isn't setup at the moment.

Anyone else experiencing the KGUN 9-1 video freezes?

They happen at least once per night and last from several seconds to more than a minute, though audio continues. Very aggrevating, since you can't switch over to analog fast enough to see what was missed! This seems to be a regular thing lately.

Also, last night they switched over momentarily to another show in progress. Just when I thought it was safe to watch ABC. :rolleyes:

Anyone else experiencing the KGUN 9-1 video freezes?

They happen at least once per night and last from several seconds to more than a minute, though audio continues. Very aggrevating, since you can't switch over to analog fast enough to see what was missed! This seems to be a regular thing lately.

Also, last night they switched over momentarily to another show in progress. Just when I thought it was safe to watch ABC. :rolleyes:

Yes, I had the same issue re KGUN video freezing a couple times.

Anyone else experiencing the KGUN 9-1 video freezes?

Must not have been watching enough ABC to notice this yet, didn't see anything in Lost or Invasion, but I sent a message to Steve Sommerville the KGUN CE letting him know there were posts here in the Forum about the issue, so hopefully he will reply with some info at some point.

We are aware of the issue and are in troubleshooting mode. I have not observed it on live HD, such as MNF, so we are looking at the ASI HD delay server as the culprit, but have not confirmed this yet. We'll keep you posted.

Steve Somerville
KGUN-TV/DT

I'm going to do what I can to get some info out of the KMSB CE or the PHX FOX CE about the regularity of HD programs on FOX dropping out of HD for large portions of the broadcast. I didn't watch much of the AZ Cardinals NFL game today, but it was in HD before half-time then not 1/2 way through the 4th qtr to the end of the game, then I flipped back to the post game interviews and it was in HD again.

Does anyone know someone to contact at FOX itself to find out if they have been having problems upstream or if this is a local problem? I told the CE's last week that I think we've been more than patient waiting to hear why this has been happening almost daily either during prime time HD programs or the sports on the weekends.

Can I please ask for some help from the users of this forum?

I know the issues of Cox cable and the many networks that do not let Cox carry their HD feed because of "financial reasons" has been discussed many times.

However, the WB has offered Cox their HD channel with no more money and Cox has not only refused, but implied a threat to the WB that they would drop their analog station if they were "forced" to take their HD channel.

Again, the WB is willing to share their feed immediately and Cox simply refuses.

I have worked tirelessly to try and get answers, hopefully, to benefit everyone. I realize that the WB is only a start and might not be your favorite channel, but those of you who have Cox need to know this is happening.

I have spoken with the corporate offices of Cox in Arizona and the national offices in Atlanta. They have repeatedly told me that their goal is to have Tucson get the same model (their word) as they have in Phoenix. Yet, in Phoenix, they carry the WB-HD.

I have e-mails from the GM of the WB where Cox has told them, "Thanks, but no thanks and that we're only interested in carrying the top 4 networks (CBS, ABC, NBC, and Fox)." So, basically, Cox has been lying. They are not interested in the same model for Tucson and they have in Phoenix, despite saying this over and over and stating they were working on this every day.

We all know ABC, NBC, and Fox have financial reasons for not sharing their feeds with Cox, but the WB has no such issue. They want us to have it and Cox feels like they can get away with saying certain things that just aren't true. I pay a lot for their service and I'm shocked that they are keeping a channel from us, especially when they know we don't have 3 of the major networks.

I got the WB to post this to their website today:

VIEWER CONCERNS REGARDING COX CABLE: If you would like to see Tucson's WB on the high definition tier of Cox Cable sooner rather than later, please make your voice known. Send your pleas to Anne Doris at anne.doris@cox.com and Debbie.Cullen@cox.com and to cc the network at hal.protter@thewb.com


Would anyone here who has Cox or even those that don't, please step up and write to these people at Cox and demand answers? They have promised me for months they were working on getting us to have the same options as Phoenix and the whole time, they were refusing to carry the WB. Other people who post here and care about HD or just about not getting shafted by cable, satellite, or even the affiliates who hold out for money, would you please get involved because I know that the people here care?

It doesn't take much to get some action on this and hopefully force Cox to have to do something about this. And if we, the customers, can do it once, maybe it will signal to them to get more serious about getting things resolved with the other networks.

Please help with this and add any suggestions that you might have. I'm just trying to get things to be better for everyone and I hope to get as much support as possible, so that companies don't feel like they can lie and push their customers around without anything to worry about or anyone standing up to them.

Please help. Thank you.

Rory,

Thanks for the great work. I've sent my email to Cox. I wonder if we will get any responses from them.

Rory,

Thanks for the great work. I've sent my email to Cox. I wonder if we will get any responses from them.

Thanks for sending the e-mail. The more people who write, the better. Tell your friends and post anywhere that you can think of.

Cox is not going to do anything without being pushed. Same with most of the networks, but the WB wants to be on the HD tier and they've been turned down.

That's unbelievable. Tucson isn't the most "happening" town, but I am so sick and tired of the lies and excuses from both the affiliates and Cox. Especially Cox. Based on what I pay, there is no reason I should be watching every network other than CBS in analog.

I'm trying to work with executives at the WB to push this issue as far as it has to go to get at much attention as we can.

When we get the WB, and I will fight until we do, then I'll keep on them until we have NBC, FOX, and ABC like just about every other person from around the country I know that has an HDTV and cable.

All those managers and owners that want to get paid for their signal... they should go open (or work for) a cable network!

I just sent me email to the addresses listed. I will report back if I get any response at all.

Thanks for the hard work. I submitted my letter this morning. In looking at the amount of missing analog channels, Cox must be sitting on a ton of bandwidth. Why not put it to use and become our "Friend in the Digital Age"?

I wrote to them this evening. Sitting here watching the music awards on KGUN, who once again cannot seem to handle passing a HD broadcast from the network on to us. Makes me wonder why we care sometimes about having them on Cable. Ray Depa seems to think his programming is worth extra money, and yet he cannot seem to handle providing what the corporation sends out. Sounds lame to me.

I wrote to them this evening. Sitting here watching the music awards on KGUN, who once again cannot seem to handle passing a HD broadcast from the network on to us. Makes me wonder why we care sometimes about having them on Cable. Ray Depa seems to think his programming is worth extra money, and yet he cannot seem to handle providing what the corporation sends out. Sounds lame to me.


The American Music Awards were not broadcast in HD by KGUN because the program was not sent to KGUN in HD by the network.

Steve Somerville
Chief Engineer
KGUN-TV/DT

If that is true, I apologize for my remarks. I was going by TitanTV, which shows it as HD. I think I got the first 30 seconds in HD, before it switched back to SD, but maybe I am mistaken. Thanks, Steve

My thanks to Rory and to all that have taken this action already. Be sure to cc me as well at kwba so that my general manager can be notified. She has written another very direct request to Cox, and you requests are being heard.


Joan Lee, Tucson's WB (tucsonswb-dot-com)