My thanks to Rory and to all that have taken this action already. Be sure to cc me as well at kwba so that my general manager can be notified. She has written another very direct request to Cox, and you requests are being heard.


Joan Lee, Tucson's WB (tucsonswb-dot-com)

I was wondering if there have been any negotiations with Comcast to carry the WB HD channel?

I did receive a response from Hal Protter at the WB to the effect of if enough people complain hopefully Cox will notice and change their mind.

Joan, your email wasn't listed in the blurb on the website or earlier in this post so I didn't copy you on the email I sent in. I see it's there now though.

Billy

Rory,

Have you been able to uncover why Fox 11 is on Comcast but not Cox?

Rory,

Have you been able to uncover why Fox 11 is on Comcast but not Cox?

I have been wonering about that myself. Cox has never responded to me when I ask them.

Maybe this jointenna thing that ChannelMaster has
http://www.channelmaster.com/Pages/TVS/Passives.htm

Has anyone tried this gadget to see if it actually works? It appears to be a simply and relatively inexpensive solution if it works in the Tucson area, but I'm concerned about adjacent uhf channel interference.

Monday morning - anyone else not getting 9-1 OTA?

I got a response from Cox today about the WB HD signal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mr. Wood:
Thank you for your recent e-mail in which you indicated your interest
in receiving more high definition programming from our Tucson
broadcasters as part of your Cox Communications digital service. We're
very aware that having quality local high definition programming is
important to our customers.


To this end, Cox has been working with many local broadcasters to
conclude retransmission agreements to carry their programming. We have
unsuccessfully engaged KWBA for more than a year to come to such an
agreement. We will continue to engage KWBA to bring this long standing
negotiation to a logical conclusion.


I hope to reach agreements soon with the remaining stations owners in
the Tucson market as well. It is also my hope that we conclude these
business negotiations without further engaging you, our valued customer,
in the process.


Please don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of further assistance.
Thank you for choosing Cox Communications.
Best Regards,


Anne Doris
Cox Communications

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it just me, or did she not really say anthing at all in this?

I received a reply from Anne Doris at Cox today, which continued to give no information and no estimation of when we might get even the same local channels that Comcast gets here. She did say, among other things,: "...Cox has been working with many local broadcasters to conclude retransmission agreements to carry their programming. We have unsuccessfully engaged KWBA for more than a year to come to such an agreement."

Either Anne or Rory is leaving something out of the story..... I am betting on Anne... :-)

I received a reply from Anne Doris at Cox today, which continued to give no information and no estimation of when we might get even the same local channels that Comcast gets here. She did say, among other things,: "...Cox has been working with many local broadcasters to conclude retransmission agreements to carry their programming. We have unsuccessfully engaged KWBA for more than a year to come to such an agreement."

Either Anne or Rory is leaving something out of the story..... I am betting on Anne... :-)

Just read Anne's reply and you'll see quickly that she "artfully" avoids answering any specific question about the WB situation and then she goes on to give the same old song and dance that you get from EVERY other person at Cox about working to get agreements with the other networks.

She has insulted every viewer who wrote her with that reply. And it was a form letter, everyone, including me, got the very same, poorly written letter completely devoid of any information.

Either the WB has offered their channel without asking for more money or they haven't. They claim that they have and Anne doesn't even bother to refute that; yet she still maintains that they haven't been able to reach a deal. WHY?

Don't make the mistake in believing that she left out the why part by mistake.


They're really poorly managed. I spoke with their director of Marketing and she couldn't answer one of my questions. Not one. It was a pathetic display.

I think it's time for me to get rid of Cox completely. Personally, I'd be ashamed of myself if I was Anne Doris and lied to my customers like that. Hey, at least, the GMs at the local affiliates will honestly tell you they want more money. You might not agree that they deserve any or that it's a good business decision, but they, at least, don't lie about what they're doing or why they're doing it and especially in such a manner as Anne Doris did in her reply to all of us.

It's speaks volumes about Anne's character that she concludes her letter by stating that we shouldn't hesitate to contact her if she can be of any further assistance, when she wasn't of ANY assistance in the first place.

Look at the plus side, they took the time to write a form letter. Not exactly cut and pasted though, because mine was worded slightly differently in various places than scott's. But they have noticed the feedback that we've been sending their way. Hopefully change will come soon.

Anne also stated that they fixed the ESPN audio problem, though I haven't watched ESPNHD yet tontight.

Though it's true that Anne's letter didn't really give any information, that's often standard business practice for any ongoing negotiations. You never can really know who is telling the truth and whether there is more to the situation than meets the eye. I wouldn't be surprised if these letters went through legal on their way out the door.

For whomever asked about 9-1, I'm getting it fine now on MNF. Not through Cox of course :(. Hopefully this will be a good game, though it looks like the Colts are having their way so far.

Billy

I hope to reach agreements soon with the remaining stations owners in
the Tucson market as well. It is also my hope that we conclude these
business negotiations without further engaging you, our valued customer,
in the process.



Am I reading this wrong, because I think the customer should be engaged in the process and that's what Cox just doesn't get? We should be involved in getting to play a part in what our cable provider is doing and what they are carrying on their channels.

It seems to me like this is just a way of saying, "butt out."

Anyone else read that comment another way?

It sure seems very patronizing to me.

Am I reading this wrong, because I think the customer should be engaged in the process and that's what Cox just doesn't get? We should be involved in getting to play a part in what our cable provider is doing and what they are carrying on their channels.

It seems to me like this is just a way of saying, "butt out."

Anyone else read that comment another way?

It sure seems very patronizing to me.

Of course she is saying butt out.... This is business and as much as I loathe my cable provider (umm, not Cox, the other one...) there is basically NOTHING in this equation that we have control over. I am guessing there are maybe 10 or 15 of us who read and post here regularly. Compared to the customer base we are noise.... On the other hand is there not someone out there who understands or has influence with the city or county cable regulatory committee? If these people are not asleep THEY are the ones that have the power to get the cable companies attention.

This is a mouthful: http://www.tucsonaz.gov/it/finalord2.html

Somewhere in there there might be a leverage point....

Anyone else read that comment another way?

It sure seems very patronizing to me.

I read it in a more positive note. I read it as hopefully the various parties can sort out the problems without having to get the viewers stuck in the middle.

I shouldn't be any part of the negotiations. We should just have the best selection of channels possible. Ideally we would have never needed to email Cox or The WB. I would think that Anne is saying that hopefully in the future we won't need to. I believe her email was a professional response, not a buddy buddy response, and shouldn't be read into too much. We know our voice is being heard, now we just have to wait to see how clearly we're heard.

We'll see.

Edit:
That's a pessimistic "We'll See". I just don't have much faith in Cox and local HD. Hopefully one day it will be all good, but I'm afraid that isn't in the near term.

I read it in a more positive note. I read it as hopefully the various parties can sort out the problems without having to get the viewers stuck in the middle.

I shouldn't be any part of the negotiations. We should just have the best selection of channels possible. Ideally we would have never needed to email Cox or The WB. I would think that Anne is saying that hopefully in the future we won't need to. I believe her email was a professional response, not a buddy buddy response, and shouldn't be read into too much. We know our voice is being heard, now we just have to wait to see how clearly we're heard.

We'll see.

Edit:
That's a pessimistic "We'll See". I just don't have much faith in Cox and local HD. Hopefully one day it will be all good, but I'm afraid that isn't in the near term.

I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong on about every point.

bbbobbb, pretty much has it right.

How many e-mails provoked this pathetic, form letter? 10-15 is probably about right. As was pointed out, we're in the minority and clearly this response from Anne makes it known that we are merely a small nuisance and not to be taken too seriously.

I can't see how you can say you don't have much faith in Cox and also give the benefit of the doubt to a form letter response to your concerns that basically avoids answering any of your questions and tells you to let Cox make the decisions about that Cox does and the viewers should stay out of it.

I don't think voicing our concerns is somehow injecting ourselves, personally, in the negotiations. Cox is in the service industry and I pay for that service. When the service let's me down, it's well within my right to expect Cox to care about me...even if I'm the only one with a particular concern.

The idea that not only did Anne ignore and minimize our concerns about the HD problem, in particular the one with the WB, but she also felt emboldened enough to say butt out, and then topped it off by asking us to write back any time we needed something is extremely insulting.

I'm not sure how you can say that ideally we shouldn't be e-mailing her. Ideally, we'd all have Bill Gates money, buy our own cable companies, fire people like Anne, and make sure everybody we do business with gets respectful and honest customer service. But that's not gonna happen.

If nobody cares, then nobody cares. That's what they're counting on anyway and that's why they can get away with sending out form letters like that that insult everyone who took their time to write Cox.

It would be easy to roll over, concern myself only with my own job and my own life, but I'm not going to make it that easy. Eventually, and I think sooner rather than later, someone is going to get this issue to a larger segment of this city and get a lot more attention on what Cox and the affiliates are doing. The only thing Cox likes less than having to answer the questions of customers they have no concern for in the first place is bad publicity.

What goes around, comes around. Are you listening, Anne?

I have to agree with Rory on this one. I found nothing positive at all about the email I recieved from Anne.

Rory is also correct when he says that we are nothing but a blip on their screen. While it will change over the next couple years, those of us that own HD televisions are a tiny minority of those that subscribe to Cox.

I think that the next step would be for those 10 to 12 people who wrote to Cox about this, write a letter to the editor of both the Star and the Citizen. I will be sitting down over the next couple days and writing mine.

Cox is only part of the problem IMHO. What about the no NBC or ABC high def on Comcast (and maybe Cox too). This is the silliest situation one could possibly imagine. The broadcasters have antennas in locations that render their signals unusable to maybe 30% of the metro population but they refuse to allow wider distribution to their potential audience via the cable providers unless they pay - REALLY STUPID. What do I do - I have Comcast AND D* - I watch CBS and FOX in HD via Comcast and Tivo NBC and ABC via D*. Result, both NBC and ABC commercials do NOT get my eyeballs. What are the idiots at the local broadcasters thinking here?

Since the stations and cable companies won't negotiate until a deal is done, and they won't take calls from the end users, the next step is to contact the City and see what leverage they have.

I doubt letters to the editor will get published. Cox pays the newspapers tons in advertising.

Another idea is to start sending letters to DirecTV. Maybe they'll see Tucson as a market starved for local HD and put us up before Phoenix.

I'm sure the e-mail sent back to us was not "authored" by Anne. Most likely, an assistant has cut/paste options for every complaint. I included my intended switch to Dish/Qwest DSL and they "hoped" I would remain a Cox customer. Other than that, my received response was verbatim to the one posted here.

Another idea is to start sending letters to DirecTV. Maybe they'll see Tucson as a market starved for local HD and put us up before Phoenix.
Ha ha. Now that's funny.

Ha ha. Now that's funny.
We can hope can't we? :rolleyes:

Cox is only part of the problem IMHO. What about the no NBC or ABC high def on Comcast (and maybe Cox too). This is the silliest situation one could possibly imagine. The broadcasters have antennas in locations that render their signals unusable to maybe 30% of the metro population but they refuse to allow wider distribution to their potential audience via the cable providers unless they pay - REALLY STUPID. What do I do - I have Comcast AND D* - I watch CBS and FOX in HD via Comcast and Tivo NBC and ABC via D*. Result, both NBC and ABC commercials do NOT get my eyeballs. What are the idiots at the local broadcasters thinking here?

I continually ask customer service at Comcast "When will we get ABC and NBC in HD". I get different responses from "we are in negotiations", "we are working on it", "it should be soon", "it involves working out financial details with the local network affiliates", etc etc. Oh, one more-"we need more bandwidth".

Why can we have great HD broadcating on Fox and CBS and TNT and we cannot get ABC or NBC? My viewing habits have changed markedly. I used to always watch KGUN news (ABC). I no longer even bother with it. I also seldom view the NBC programming. Luckily there is enough great content on CBS and FOX to keep me happy.

Hopefully, one of these days, the management of the local ABC and NBC affiliates will realize that a TON of people are changing their viewing habits and their advertisers are getting "no eyeballs". Once a person has viewed HD they will seldom accept less for their viewing.

One of the hottest retail items this season is HDTV's. They are flying out of the retail stores despite the relatively small number of HD channels available. Once these new purchasers of HDTV see the difference they will do as I have done. I have only had HDTV for about 6 months--and it is awesome.

Let us hope Comcast and local network affiliates get the message. SOON.

I agree 100% with tucsonbob I find my viewing is mainly restricted to the HD channels on Comcast and rarely do I ever turn on a analog station for anything. I also find I watch the PBS HD channel quite often. I cannot figure out how the management at these other holdout stations can make such stupid decisions and still hold on to their jobs. I also am one of the people who cannot pick up their broadcasts from bigelow because I live Northwest but it appears they really can care less about 1/3 of their potential viewers.

I'm looking into putting together a PC based PVR for HD recording and I've found some info online but I thought I would check to see if anyone here in town might have already done something like this or might know someone who has? I guess even if they've only done a non-HD PVR PC that might still be helpful as well.

TIA, and I'm still working on the FOX CE's to figure out what's wrong with their auto-HD switch and to maybe dedicate more control room resources to verifying the broadcast is in HD when it should be since FOX only has HD on during primetime and for sports on weekends. One reply I got from the KMSB CE said they don't have resources to monitor the DTV Broadcast 24/7 and I replied that i understood that, but they don't have to monitor it 24/7 because SD isn't an issue. They only have to monitor it when there is an HD program on which is only a few hrs a day at the most. I also asked for a contact number to call if we notice something isn't in HD that should be and we would be the monitors for them. I am going to have to ask a 3rd or 4th time it looks like before I get anything back regarding that.

I don't understand the manpower issue with monitoring your own broadcast 24/7. Doesn't somebody have to be in master control 24/7? What does it take to have two monitors in master control?

Did anyone watch Rudolph on KOLD tonight?

I had a few audio problems, both OTA and via Cox. The audio would stutter or pause for a few seconds so that we'd miss a sentence here and there.

Eventually we switched to regular analog so we could watch the show.

My viewing habits have changed since getting HD. I am watching much less SD programming and a lot more of the HD PBS station. I have always liked the Discovery Channel, and their HD channel is pretty decent. I also like the INHD channels. My wife always like CSI and I am starting to get interested also.

I hope that the other networks, especially FOX figure out that they are losing viewers as a result of not having HD on Cox cable. Of course, that is assuming that Cox wants to offer them.

Anyone watch CSI tonight? I was having a lot of audio sync problems on Cox.

My viewing habits have changed since getting HD. I am watching much less SD programming and a lot more of the HD PBS station. I have always liked the Discovery Channel, and their HD channel is pretty decent. I also like the INHD channels. My wife always like CSI and I am starting to get interested also.

I hope that the other networks, especially FOX figure out that they are losing viewers as a result of not having HD on Cox cable. Of course, that is assuming that Cox wants to offer them.

CSI-Miami in 1080i HD via OTA antenna input to my Dish 921 DVR (to a 50-in Panasonic LCD) here in Green Valley is without a doubt the best HD picture quality for a network series (except perhaps HBOHD). If all the SD TV owners out there could experience this level of HD quality, there would be a lot of HD TVs sold.

I watch CSI-NY (and all CBS/Fox HD) via my Comcast subscription (cheapest analog service) and ALWAYS have audio AND video glitches with CBS. It will lose audio and simultaneously pixelate the video. After a second or two it goes back to normal. This happens every minute or so but only in the first few minutes of the program. I'm betting it is a local station problem. When I lived in the Seattle area and stations started HD broadcasting (about FIVE years ago) they had this kind of problem. I suspect it is a problem that will get sorted out but only if the local stations care - I'm not sure they do for the most part. I had the phone numbers of the local stations on my speed dial so I could call them and tell them their signal was not right. I may have to do the same up here as well.

Jim

CSI-Miami in 1080i HD via OTA antenna input to my Dish 921 DVR (to a 50-in Panasonic LCD) here in Green Valley is without a doubt the best HD picture quality for a network series (except perhaps HBOHD). If all the SD TV owners out there could experience this level of HD quality, there would be a lot of HD TVs sold.

It appears that CSI Miami is shot on HD tape because the scenes are so much sharper. You really can see the difference in the originally HD taped shows and the ones shot on film and converted to tape. The colors and focus are so much sharper but I guess some of the stars prefer the softer focus of film that helps hide some of the blemishes. Some of the sitcoms that are shot on tape are almost like your sitting there watching it live they are so clear.

I would suggest giving the Gilmore Girls a look if you want to see a program that is so sharp it is like looking through a window.

Gilmore Girls might be great if Cox would just carry TheWB!

Gilmore Girls might be great if Cox would just carry TheWB!

Well, then good news. I was informed today that Cox has agreed to carry the WB-HD channel by Jan 1, 2006!

So much for being in the minority and not thinking we could make a difference, as I was assured that this would likely not have happened if not for my persisitance and from those who took time to make their voices heard.

So we got their attention...only 3 affiliates left!

Bonus for me, I will finally start getting to see "Rory" in crystal clear HD. Now if only they invented a tv that you could walk right through and into the program.

I don't understand the manpower issue with monitoring your own broadcast 24/7. Doesn't somebody have to be in master control 24/7? What does it take to have two monitors in master control?

Apparently they can monitor the analog broadcast but not the DTV broadcast. This is the reply I received from the KMSB CE:

We are having employees watch specifically for this problem and let us know
when it happens so we can track it down. We have several that have HD sets
to help us out.

Hang in there while we work on this.

As for a number to call, all you can do is call the main number and leave a
message (there is nobody on the phones after 5:30p or on weekends). I can
not give out any of our private numbers to the public.

Nice work! Glad to see WB and COX could get together on this Smallville on HD at last!

Well, then good news. I was informed today that Cox has agreed to carry the WB-HD channel by Jan 1, 2006!

So much for being in the minority and not thinking we could make a difference, as I was assured that this would likely not have happened if not for my persisitance and from those who took time to make their voices heard.

So we got their attention...only 3 affiliates left!

Bonus for me, I will finally start getting to see "Rory" in crystal clear HD. Now if only they invented a tv that you could walk right through and into the program.

Well, then good news. I was informed today that Cox has agreed to carry the WB-HD channel by Jan 1, 2006!

Dilligence does pay off. I'm really hoping for KGUN to come through. Lost, Invasion, Boston Legal in HD...

Well, then good news. I was informed today that Cox has agreed to carry the WB-HD channel by Jan 1, 2006!

Excellent news. Thanks for you hard work on this one.

Just moved into my permanent home, off Houghton and Valencia. With a UHF hoop antenna, I'm able to get all Tucson digital channels (sans Hispanic chans). Called Cox to cancel my service. They ask me why and I tell them it's because of the lack of HD. I had cable and internet, switched to Dish and Qwest. The CSR tells me that they do carry local HD. I tell her there is no Fox, NBC or ABC and she says "oh yes there is." I ask her to tell me what channels I can find those locals, she pulls up a list and says Fox 10 is on...I tell her not Phoenix, Tucson. She then puts me on hold, comes back and apologizes. She did say there was some channel changes coming soon, I told her to put me on the list to call in the event all local nets are online.

The limited availability of HD programming is a bit frustrating but is slowly improving. What I cannot understand is why the addition of new programming is so very slow. Probably just a capital investment thing with the networks and providers, but one would think these folks would understand that adding HD programming would substantially stimulate interest among potential new customers. It's a chicken and egg thing, but I suspect the limited availability of HD programming is a major factor affecting lack of interest in signing up new customers, particularly for the cable and satellite providers.

My current solution to maximizing availability of HD programming here in Green Valley is using DishNetwork satellite service in combination with an inexpensive uhf roof antenna to receive free digital channels with HD broadcast by local network affiliates. I use a Dish 921 DVR recording receiver which handles not only two satellite inputs, but also the coax cable feed from my roof top uhf antenna in a seamless integration of the two sources. I get all the HD programming provided by Dish (with no local network HD of course) as well as all the network HD programming passed through via local digital transmissions by the local over-the-air providers.

Picture quality from both Dish and that coming at no charge through my uhf antenna is excellent, and I have the capability of recording HD as well as nonHD from both programming sources. The Dish 921 receiver is no longer available, but has been replaced by the newer Dish 942 DVR. While there have been some minor software issues with the Dish DVR 921, I can recommend this dual source approach to maximizing HD program availability so long as one can pick up the uhf digital transmissions from Mt Bigalow above Tucson.

I agree with you and have DirecTV, Comcast AND a Silver Sensor to get my HD content. The real problem I, and many others in the NW part of Tucson is the lack of coverage from Mt. Bigelow. While this antenna siting may have made sense in the early days of Tucson and TV, it certainly does not today. It is really a very silly situation for a major metro area to find itself in.
Jim

It would be interesting to see the coverage maps for these stations. My brother just bought a house in Queen Creek. He cannot get a digital signal from any Phoenix channels, yet he gets 80-90 for Tucson locals. He's getting ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and UPN with a small UHF antenna. Cannot get WB. His DirecTV Tivo has a full compliment of both Phoenix SD and Tucson HD. I don't understand why he can get the signals that far north and west, yet Marana has such a difficult time.

Marana area is blocked by Mt. Lemon being between the towers on Mt. Bigelow and the Northwest areas. The people to the direct north and South have a unblocked path to the broadcast towers.

I used to live at River and La Cholla area and was not able to get any of the Bigalow signals.

I called / emailed a couple of stations to see if I should be able to get coverage there. They didn't know (the ones that responded). I was completely amazed that they had antenna's on a hill but no data as to what areas were likely to get their signal.

You would think that they would have a big map of the city and surrounding areas with the various locations marked as to the signal strength expected. Maybe they do and just wouldn't tell me.

I wasn't sure how much I should try to get their signals... I didn't know if it was hopeless or not so I just returned the stuff to Circuit City. ( I did get the WB perfect)

Now that I'm on the east side of Tucson HD life is much better.

The WB channel is broadcast from a tower in the Sierra Vista area so that effects who can receive it. By the way I have heard that the WB and Comcast have inked a deal for the WB HD channel so we may be seeing that channel soon on Comcast. From what I have been told a number of the stations have gone around and checked signal and mapped the areas they cover but I do not believe they share that info with anyone.

Marana area is blocked by Mt. Lemon being between the towers on Mt. Bigelow and the Northwest areas. The people to the direct north and South have a unblocked path to the broadcast towers.

It would be a rather simple and relatively inexpensive matter for the TV stations using the Mt Bigelow transmission tower to use off the shelf GIS software and existing Digital Elevation Models for the Tucson area to create a highly detailed digital map showing with great precision where acceptable TV reception from the Mt Bigelow tower exists and does not exist. This is essentially a line of sight issue that is easily evaluated using GIS. This would eliminate the frustrating guessing and trail and error experimentation that many potential customers now experience. It's surprising that this has not already been done.

That would assume that they care about their viewers - they have amply demonstrated that they really don't.

Originally posted by gworkman:

It would be interesting to see the coverage maps for these stations. My brother just bought a house in Queen Creek. He cannot get a digital signal from any Phoenix channels, yet he gets 80-90 for Tucson locals. He's getting ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and UPN with a small UHF antenna. Cannot get WB. His DirecTV Tivo has a full compliment of both Phoenix SD and Tucson HD. I don't understand why he can get the signals that far north and west, yet Marana has such a difficult time.

I live in Queen Creek (Johnson Ranch) and could not get the Phoenix stations at all for the past year. Changed antennas a few weeks ago (I now have an 91XG long range yagi antenna from Antennas Direct) and added an amp to my setup and now I get the phoenix locals. I kept my other antenna hooked up via an a/b switch so I get both tucson and phoenix locals. So my advice to your brother is to keep trying because you can get the phoneix stations here but it will be difficult. I get some drop outs for a few seconds but nothing that bad. and if at all possible, make sure he has a direct run from his antenna to the receiver. He can then get both Tucson and Phoenix locals in case one of the stations is having problems.

have fun--
Craig

one more note-I have had the Tucson channels for the past year and always received a strong signal but couldn't figure out why I could get the Tucson channels but not Phoenix. Now I have both.... :)

waiting for FOX to flip the HD feed back on for Steelers VS Bears come on people get it together! 11:30 am

fixed thanks!

I have COX expanded basic cable along with COX internet. COX offers a bundled package of "digital" TV, internet and phone for approx $100 per month. To get this bundle, one also is required to rent a set top box from them. I have called them and asked if I could get the bundle without the set top box, because I only will be looking at channels 2-71 on cable. They absolutely insist that I must get the set top box with this bundle, however.

An earlier post in this forum provided some COX staff email addresses (Anne Dorris and Debbie Cullen), so I used those email addresses to see if anyone at COX could tell me why I would need to rent the set top box, even if I personally would not use it. Neither one of them responded directly to my message, but a COX employee named Timm Aguirre did get in touch with me. Turns out Timm is in Phoenix, and when I attempted to explain to him that I get all of the Tucson stations OTA in digital, but would only get two of them on COX, he insisted that COX currently provides ALL available Tucson stations in high definition. When I insisted that COX currently only offers two Tucson stations as part of their high definition service, he pretty much told me that I didn't know what I was talking about. And for what its worth, he told me not to believe anything I read on internet forums regarding COX.

If any of you in the Tucson area would like to help educate COX staff regarding the lack of digital (and high definition) service in Tucson, here are the email addresses:
Ann Dorris <anne.doris@cox.com>
Debbie Cullen <Debbie.Cullen@cox.com>
Timm Aguirre <Timm.Aguirre@cox.com>

I'm hoping that one day we will have people to talk to at COX who know about Tucson and about digital TV.

The WB channel is broadcast from a tower in the Sierra Vista area so that effects who can receive it.

Although I think antennaweb reports the location as Sierra Vista, the location is actually in the Santa Rita range, between Mt. Hopkins (Whipple observatory) and Elephant Head. The FOX analog broadcasts (channel 11) are also coming from this location. This location is a bit further from Tucson than Mt Bigelow, but I would guess that it provides better coverage for most of Tucson.

See my previous post. Seems that not even Cox employees can believe how horribly they are screwing their HD customers.

Can we invite Tim down to tucson next week to watch the Fox games? Good luck getting them on COX. I had two people asking me last week when ABC HD would be on cable. It took me a few minutes to realize they had Comcast at least they get FOX HD on the Cable service. $100 a month and only one major network in HD some value huh? :(

phlewt,

Are you saying they want to charge 100 + 5 for the box? Or are you asking for 100 - 5 for not having the box? I can understand them requiring digital to get the discount since that's the deal, but if the setup box isn't included in the $100, that's bullcrap.

If you just don't want to hook up the digital box, I'm sure you could just put the box in a closet or something. Or since your paying for it already, you can watch Battlestar Galactica, it's a good show :)

Since apparently Tucson customer service calls get routed to Phoenix, it seems that they tend to give misinformation. This is something that Cox should really work to fix, or they'll get themselves in trouble at some point I would imagine. I've had bad experiences calling about the problems of 713, the periodic macroblocking that never shows up OTA or on other Cox HD channels. Each time they want to send a service technician, but I'm not about to pay a service fee.

And I still don't understand why Comcast has KMSB in HD, but Cox doesn't. I can't imagine that Comcast is paying a carriage fee. Does anyone know the details on this?

Can we invite Tim down to tucson next week to watch the Fox games? Good luck getting them on COX. I had two people asking me last week when ABC HD would be on cable. It took me a few minutes to realize they had Comcast at least they get FOX HD on the Cable service. $100 a month and only one major network in HD some value huh? :(


Awe, forget that. We need to throw a Super Bowl party for Cox execs from Phoenix. They'll enjoy the big game in standard def.

i really think you people need to get a life...there is so much more out there than tv...

Uh, like TV forums?

Are you saying they want to charge 100 + 5 for the box? Or are you asking for 100 - 5 for not having the box? I can understand them requiring digital to get the discount since that's the deal, but if the setup box isn't included in the $100, that's bullcrap.

The "Cox Digital Home Pak" is advertised to cost $99.95 per month, plus equipment, taxes and fees. In the fine print it says the mandatory "digital converter/remote" (set top box) adds $6 per month.

In my discussions with Cox customer service reps, I am told emphatically that they will not unbundle the set top box requirement and relieve me of the $6 per month charge. As you say, I could sign up for the Digital Home Pak and let the set top box sit in the closet, but thus far I have elected not to do so. Guess I'm just stubborn :)

The "Cox Digital Home Pak" is advertised to cost $99.95 per month, plus equipment, taxes and fees. In the fine print it says the mandatory "digital converter/remote" (set top box) adds $6 per month.

In my discussions with Cox customer service reps, I am told emphatically that they will not unbundle the set top box requirement and relieve me of the $6 per month charge. As you say, I could sign up for the Digital Home Pak and let the set top box sit in the closet, but thus far I have elected not to do so. Guess I'm just stubborn :)

What kind of features do they give for the phone. Because with Internet at $40 and regular cable at $40, I think, that leaves $20 for the phone package with CallerID, Voice Mail and CallWaiting, plus the same taxes and fees :(
EDIT: URL for phone price: http://www.cox.com/Tucson/telephone/

I've always thought those setup box rental fees were a bunch of crap, but can't do anything about them.

I wonder if you could sign up for the digital Pak with the setup box and then return the box to the office a couple weeks later?

i really think you people need to get a life...there is so much more out there than tv...

Hello there, Cox employee...you must be so proud to work at such an excellent company!

Anybody know if KVOA reduced or changed their signal? I had no problems getting them OTA until two nights ago. Used to have a signal in the 75-85 range, now best I can get is 63 which is completely unwatchable.

Anybody know if KVOA reduced or changed their signal? I had no problems getting them OTA until two nights ago. Used to have a signal in the 75-85 range, now best I can get is 63 which is completely unwatchable.No change here.

Nfl for 12-18 in Tucson:
11:00 am

Arizona Cardinals @ Houston Texans FoxHD?
San Diego Chargers @ Indianapolis Colts CBSHD

1pm
Dallas Cowboys @ Washington Redskins FoxHD?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=617620

Arizona Cardinals @ Houston Texans FoxHD?

This game will be not be in HD.

What kind of features do they give for the phone. Because with Internet at $40 and regular cable at $40, I think, that leaves $20 for the phone package with CallerID, Voice Mail and CallWaiting, plus the same taxes and fees :(


With the 99.95 Bundle you get the:

Connection 60 Package
Features include:

* 1 Phone Line
* Solutions Package
Solutions Package
Features include:

* Busy Line Redial
* Three-Way Calling
* Speed Calling
* Call Forwarding Busy
* Selective Call Rejection
* Call Return
* Selective Call Acceptance
* Long Distance Alert
* Priority Ringing
* Call Waiting ID (Call Waiting/Caller ID)
* Selective Call Forwarding
* Call Forwarding
* Call Forwarding on No Answer

* 60 Minutes of Domestic Cox Long Distance per month

Extra LD is .05 a minute

And if you return the box you lose the bundle price.

The monthly charge for the $99.95 bundle would be $122.25 (with "franchise fees", taxes, and rental of the set top box). I currently pay a total of approximately $110 for Qwest phone service (including 60 minutes of long distance), Cox internet, and Cox expanded basic cable service.

My setup:

Samsung 56" DLP
Samsung HD Sat Rcvr
DTV HD Package
XBox 360 :)
Silver Sensor

I have not had a single problem out here in Rita Ranch with my HD reception either thru the dish or the sensor. Sound/Video sync up every time.

My only problem is the "blackouts" on my DTV Sports Pack of 20+ FSN regional networks on basketball games. If its not on FSN-AZ it gets blacked out. Argh.

Now that ESPN2 is in HD from DTV its a lot nicer for basketball games.

The OTA is so slick since it gets incorporated into the DTV HD Sat Rcvr's channel guide. I guess that's the case for most receivers (cable/sat) but it is very nice.

Andrew

The monthly charge for the $99.95 bundle would be $122.25 (with "franchise fees", taxes, and rental of the set top box). I currently pay a total of approximately $110 for Qwest phone service (including 60 minutes of long distance), Cox internet, and Cox expanded basic cable service.


I was paying $83 for Cox expanded basic and Internet and for phone $35 which is their $25.99 choice home package plus all the taxes and fees. Which comes to $118. I'm switching to the bundle but with an HD receiver in my new place, which will add up to $123.xx So for an extra $5 I get a similar phone package but am upgrading to digital with an HD receiver.

(I actually already have the digital and HD receiver + Encore so I'm paying 105.xx a month for cable, so a totla of $140 a month for cable + phone. So I'll be saving $15 a month plus won't get the 3way calling fees that my son keeps using, but that's only a couple dollars a month. He gets in trouble for them, and has to do some extra chores.)

Now I don't 'like' Cox or Comcast or Qwest or any of the "communications" companies. Nor do I care for DTV or Dish, but Cox seems to offer the best bang for buck for me.

I am paying almost half that for HD satellite from Dishnetwork, and getting Showtime, the top-tier 180 channels, plus other extras. Adding in my phone and DSL comes to about what you are paying, about $125 for me. ANd wouldn't go back to cable if it were free.

However, the HD OTA addon card for my Dishnetwork receiver does not get along well with the channel 13 CBS digital broadcast. WHich is disappointing, since Thursday night CSI is about the only thing currently I care to watch in HD! I am wondering about getting the new DVR with HD capablitity. It means throwing out my first $700 purchase with a second one, but I would really love to have integrated DVR service with my satellite.

Mike

My setup:

Samsung 56" DLP
Samsung HD Sat Rcvr
DTV HD Package
XBox 360 :)
Silver Sensor



Where'd you get the Silver Sensor?

Hello All

Wow! A lot has been happening in the Tucson HDTV scene judging by the length of this thread, although not all good it appears :confused:

Recap: Two years ago, I built a high-end dedicated theater with CRT FP. This was to be the "serious", widescreen HDTV viewing venue. I also bought a Zenith 32" 4:3 direct-view HDTV (with integrated 8VSB and QAM tuners) for the family room system "everyday" HD viewing.

Then I learned about HDTV in Tucson. Nada on cable (Comcast), no networks on dish, iffy OTA reception (central foothills). I installed the best OTA hardware I could find: Zenith HDV-420 STB, CM 4228 with 7777 preamp and 9521 rotator mounted more than 20' off of the ground. I got three channels: KUAT (HD - yay!), WB (no HD - boo!) and Telemundo (No HD and my Spanish is poor). I put away all of the HD gear (including the Zenith TV) and gave up on HD. :(

Fast forward two years: I'm re-decorating the family room and thinking about a plasma for aesthetic reasons. Comcast apparently has some HD content (none of which I've actually seen). But are these shows primarily in 16:9 or 4:3? If they are 4:3, then a 42" plasma isn't going to give me any more picture size than the 32" Zenith boxed in my garage, and probably poorer picture quality.

The family room system (with venerable 27" Sony) is used mostly by my boys for cartoons, disney channel, and gamecube/xbox. I watch 2-3 hr/wk of TV (sitcoms, Fox, WB, OLN), but would probably watch more in HD. Light control is poor; viewing distance is about 12'.

So should I go with the plasma or stick with the direct view Zenith?
What QAM tuner should I get for the theater (rent Comcast's?)
And is there any reason to upgrade to premium "digital" cable service?

Thanks

I got mine at Sears in the Tucson Mall - it was cheap too!
Jim

Dave,

All HD is 16:9 so stay away from the 4:3 TV...

I have my HD from Cox so I can't comment on comcasts offerings...

Where'd you get the Silver Sensor?


Picke mine up at Roh's..

http://www.rohs.com/contactus.htm

I am paying almost half that for HD satellite from Dishnetwork, and getting Showtime, the top-tier 180 channels, plus other extras. Adding in my phone and DSL comes to about what you are paying, about $125 for me. ANd wouldn't go back to cable if it were free.

However, the HD OTA addon card for my Dishnetwork receiver does not get along well with the channel 13 CBS digital broadcast. WHich is disappointing, since Thursday night CSI is about the only thing currently I care to watch in HD! I am wondering about getting the new DVR with HD capablitity. It means throwing out my first $700 purchase with a second one, but I would really love to have integrated DVR service with my satellite.

Mike

I've teetered on getting Dish or Direct services, but currently I have a Myth PC DVR that has 4 tuners that records off of analog cable. I'm not ready to tackle that beast on a sat service.

I got mine at Sears in the Tucson Mall - it was cheap too!
Jim
Christmas shopping for me tomorrow...I've gone through three antennas

Cheapie UHF antenna. No NBC and needed to be moved around too much.
$50.00 RCA suggested by the "Best" Buy sales rep
$30.00 Phillips (works as good as the other) from Walmart

My only trouble station is KVOA. I get everything without moving around my indoor antenna. KVOA is very spotty. Hoping the SS will be the solution. I don't want to go with attic or outdoor if I don't have to.

It appears the local masters KVOA & KGUN have not only declared war on Marana & Oro Valley, but have included you folks in the foothills as well. Their refusal to place digital transmitters on Tumamoc Hill the best evidence I can come up with.
Comcast carries KOLD, KUAT, & KMSB in 16.9. They also carry TNT/HD. DiscoveryHD & their own INHD & INHD2. To date, no word on when they'll ever gain NBC/ABC. If you have the land & no restrictions, look into the big dish satellite systems. NO digital compression with them as you get with Dish & Direct, hence, you get the same signal that any local station receives. They have a far-superior version of Directs NFL Sunday Ticket as well.

I am an HDTV newbie. I live in Vail.

I hooked up an RCA ATSC 11 tuner and receive ch 4,9,13,18, and 46 with a good signal.

I get a strong signal for PBS ch 30 but no picture. I have tried changing the resolution on the receiver to 720 and 480 but still no picture.

Can anyone help me get a picture. Thanks in advance.

I am an HDTV newbie. I live in Vail.

I hooked up an RCA ATSC 11 tuner and receive ch 4,9,13,18, and 46 with a good signal.

I get a strong signal for PBS ch 30 but no picture. I have tried changing the resolution on the receiver to 720 and 480 but still no picture.

Can anyone help me get a picture. Thanks in advance.

If memory serves, KUAT discontinued their HD broadcast on 30. For now, the only HD feed is from KUAS on 28. Don't know if that signal is available to you as they transmit from the Tucson Mtn. area.

Tony

Thanks Azwldcats. I should have known that a 4:3 HDTV was a bad idea. Oh well...

One other question: TitanTV shows digital channels 200-260 as available on "Comcast cable communications - basic". I hooked up my Zenith HDTV (with integrated QAM tuner) and had it scan CADTV. It only went to 135 and didn't find anything. I guess the Comcast set-top box is required to tune these?

Thanks Azwldcats. I should have known that a 4:3 HDTV was a bad idea. Oh well...

One other question: TitanTV shows digital channels 200-260 as available on "Comcast cable communications - basic". I hooked up my Zenith HDTV (with integrated QAM tuner) and had it scan CADTV. It only went to 135 and didn't find anything. I guess the Comcast set-top box is required to tune these?

On a QAM capable tuner the Comcast local unscrambled digital channels show up as sub channels of 87 (87.1 and 87.2) and 88 (88.1, 88.2 and 88.3) and TNTHD on 126.1, I receive them on both my QAM capable HD tuner TV's without a cable box. The channels 200-260 on the cable box are the virtual numbers assigned by Comcast.

If memory serves, KUAT discontinued their HD broadcast on 30. For now, the only HD feed is from KUAS on 28. Don't know if that signal is available to you as they transmit from the Tucson Mtn. area.

Tony
I lived near OVMS and could get channel 30 without a problem. It will remap to channels 6.2 (PBS), 6.3 (PBS Kids), 6.4 (PBS X) and 6.5 (PBS You). Digital 28 remaps to channel 27.1 which is the PBS-HD feed.

My latest bill from Comcast informs me that I will now be getting two new digital channels (Outdoor and Sportsman) and KWBA (Warner Bros) in HD-- big whoppee??

Why waste the available bandwidth on programming seldom watched?(At least by me and many I know). The big problem is WHEN will we see ABC, NBC and ESPN2 in HD? Viewership on these 3 channels would likely be 10-20 times that of the "New" offerings effective 12/29. Does ANYONE have a hint of a timeframe on ABC, NBC and ESPN2 availability in HD for those of us with Comcast and no availability to OTA access????

This big "New Channel Alert for 12/29/05" reminds me a bit of the one I got this past summer which provided me with VERY little value, just the waste of precious bandwidth for little watched programming.

Come- on Comcast--throw us a BONE for our "recent price increase"!!!! I would think that the recent price increase would easily allow you to justify the costs of adding ABC, NBC and ESPN2 in HD!

The big problem is WHEN will we see ABC, NBC and ESPN2 in HD? Viewership on these 3 channels would likely be 10-20 times that of the "New" offerings effective 12/29.

The ABC and NBC channels are not allowing their channels to be rebroadcast by Comcast. If they would allow the rebroadcast like CBS, FOX, PBS, etc. have allowed the rebroadcast they would be on Comcast too. It's the local ABC and NBC affiliates that are the problem.

The ABC and NBC channels are not allowing their channels to be rebroadcast by Comcast. If they would allow the rebroadcast like CBS, FOX, PBS, etc. have allowed the rebroadcast they would be on Comcast too. It's the local ABC and NBC affiliates that are the problem.

Thanks for the feedback--appears I am aiming my shot at the wrong party. What is wrong with ABC and NBC local affiliates? What can they be thinking about? I have no idea how many eyeballs are impacted by these local affiliates withholding their signal to Comcast customers--BUT--I might guess it is over 10,000... Could be a lot more.

Is it just a financial issue or are there bigger problems between Comcast and local ABC and NBC?

Thanks RJRSW.

Your suggestion solved my problem - indirectly. I was encouraged by your post that the CADTV channels should be there, so I persevered with the scan menus on my TV. It turns out that it matters which coax input is fed what (I thought that they were just combined internally). Unfortunately it looks like I can't easily have CADTV (cable HD) and DTV (OTA HD) at the same time. The menu options are:

1. TV/CATV/DTV (antenna 1 input only)
2. TV/CATV/CADTV (antenna 1 input only)
3. TV/CATV + DTV (DTV on antenna 2)
4. TV/CATV + CADTV (CADTV on antenna 2)

There is no "TV/CATV/CADTV + DTV" :(

This is not a huge problem since I believe that all of the HD channels I can actually receive OTA are on CADTV anyway. Just wondering if I am missing something.

"Guess we should boycott ABC and NBC!!!! "

That's what I have done. I never watch either of those stations any longer. I'd much rather watch PBS HD channel or the WB in HD then either ABC or NBC in analog. From what I understand these two holdouts are the problem and have made unreasonable demands compared to the other stations and that is why they are not on Comcast.

[QUOTE=Dave Milne]Thanks RJRSW.

Your suggestion solved my problem - indirectly. QUOTE]

My Sony and my Samsung have two antenna inputs one for OTA HD and one for Cable HD. I can select either antenna by just switching antenna inputs from the remote or by adding a channel on either antenna to the favorite channels and just select what I want from the TV's favorite channels list and it auomatically switches to the correct input and tunes in the channel so the input switch appears transparent to the user.

Hello all. I tried searching and apparently didn't come up with the correct keywords. This is going to be some basic questions.

My situation is that I live in the Sabino Canyon/Tanque Verde area. I get programming from DishNetwork including HD and local channels. I want to get the local HD broadcast and realize I need a special antenna for that. Is there a recommended antenna? Does it have to be installed on the satellite? Is there a recommended installer? Will the local HD shows show up on the program guide? Will my Dishnetwork HD dvr be able to record the shows?

Many thanks for any response.

Daryl, the first question is does your TV had a built-in HD tuner or will you need an external tuner? Some people recommend an exteranl tuner that Wal-Mart sells for about $200. Do a search in this thread for more info on that.

With your location you might find an inside antenna might work just fine. The recommended one is the Zenith Silver Sensor available at Sears for about $30. You could buy that, try it and if it didn't work return it and go to plan B. See posts above for info on the Zenith.

Plan B is an external UHF or VHF/UHF antenna from Radio Shack. HD signals are in the UHF band. The antenna can be anywhere that gets a good signal from the broadcast antennas which you may be able to see at night on the mountain. Typically if you need to go external you would need to run a separate coax for it.

I'm not familar with Dish DVR but I believe the DirecTV HD DVR will record off the air.

Good luck. OTA HD looks just great.

Pat

Once you can get the OTA signals, the program information will show up in your guide and yes, you will be able to record them. That is assuming you have either the 921 or 942.

Plug your address in at this site. It'll show what is available OTA.
http://www.antennaweb.org

It's pretty accurate, however, it shows my house can't get KWBA DT, yet it is the strongest signal I get.

Once you can get the OTA signals, the program information will show up in your guide and yes, you will be able to record them. That is assuming you have either the 921 or 942.

Plug your address in at this site. It'll show what is available OTA.
http://www.antennaweb.org

It's pretty accurate, however, it shows my house can't get KWBA DT, yet it is the strongest signal I get.

I have both the 942 downstairs and the 921 upstairs. Here is a link to these receivers.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/receivers/HD/index.shtml

How does the program information show up on the guide? Do you connect the antenna to the receiver? If so will the inside Zenith work ok?

You've gotta plug your address into antenaweb.org to determine if an indoor antenna is going to work for you. I only have the 811 so I can't speak for how to add locals into the 921 or 942. Go to www.dbstalk.com and you'll get an answer pretty quick. Once you've added the channels, they will appear in your guide with program information.

On the 811, I go to System Setup, then Local Channels, then Scan Digital.

Good Luck !

Thanks to all.

While we are on the subject of hooking OTA into boxes, does anyone know if I can hook one up to the Cox DVR and have it show the local OTA stuff and record them?

While we are on the subject of hooking OTA into boxes, does anyone know if I can hook one up to the Cox DVR and have it show the local OTA stuff and record them?Not a chance - the only thing the COX HD DVR will do is record COX HD. I jumped ship to DirecTV with TiVo to have the ability to record local OTA HD.

Any idea what happend to Fox? They've lost the local channel mapping. My OTA tuner on my TV won't tune it in and my Dish 811 will tune in to 25.1.

Just took the leap and ordered HD Tivo and three DVR80 Tivos from ****************. I see there is a process to hack the 80 to get HMO. I don't want to go through the effort and would rather purchase a hard drive with the hacks installed. Looked at weaknees.com and don't see that option. Anybody know where to go get this stuff?

On another note, baseball season is soon approaching. I hate to see Giant's games blacked out vs. the Padres, yet it seems it'll be another year of blackouts. I sent a message to the Padres and got this response. Any suggestions on who to forward to Cox to see about getting this silly blackout lifted?

Thanks for your email; sorry for the delay in responding. Evidently, Tucson remains a part of Cox Channel 4 Padres territory, despite being at some distance from San Diego. That said, Cox has the option of not allowing competitive broadcasts provided by satellite and MLB.TV to be shown.

We wish it were otherwise and there were some other options, but at this point, that is the case.

Tim Katzman
Corporate Communications

Ok, I now have an antenna (up on the rooftop) and was able to pick up 12 OTA stations. I noticed a few things. The numerous pbs stations don't have a guide so I don't think I can record there or can I? I was able to get 58 too which is nice. I also got an extra 13 which is some music video channel without a guide.

I have Dish Network with the 942 (a PVR similar to TiVo) and changed the timers to the HD channels instead of the SD channels. Is this a mistake? Are there gliches with the OTA channels like weather or other variables which might mean that a program could be lost (recorded when no signal was coming in)? What do other folks do?

Ok, I now have an antenna (up on the rooftop) and was able to pick up 12 OTA stations. I noticed a few things. The numerous pbs stations don't have a guide so I don't think I can record there or can I? I was able to get 58 too which is nice. I also got an extra 13 which is some music video channel without a guide.

I have Dish Network with the 942 (a PVR similar to TiVo) and changed the timers to the HD channels instead of the SD channels. Is this a mistake? Are there gliches with the OTA channels like weather or other variables which might mean that a program could be lost (recorded when no signal was coming in)? What do other folks do?

I use a DishNetwork DVR 921 and a rooftop uhf antenna here in Green Valley to get the Tucson digital OTA channels. Picture quality is very good for all digital OTAs and I record programs in HD when they are available in that format with excellent results and no significant issues with weather related reception. It is however disconcerting to not have all the OTA channel info in the Dish SAT guide (the OTA programming is in the Dish SAT guide for those digital channels which match the program info for the Dish locals). You can of course get all the digital OTA program info online from TitanTV.com.

FYI:

Comcast added the WB HD channel today on channel 214 on the cable box.

For the people that Have QAM cable capable tuners it is on 114.3

For important shows, you could record both the satellite feed and the OTA feed. When you feel comfortable that OTA will not fail you, you can skip that practice. You should notice a tremendous improvement on picture quality when recording OTA.

FYI:

Comcast added the WB HD channel today on channel 214 on the cable box.

For the people that Have QAM cable capable tuners it is on 114.3

And Cox added it on 708

Well, I read through some lengthy posts in this thread and still have a few questions:

Is ABC and NBC HD available OTA even though they are holding out against Cox and Comcast? (I think so, but please reassure me)

If I have DirecTV and live on the South end of Houghton Rd (new Pulte development between Civano and Mesquite Ranch), will I be able to simply get the "included" HD antenna that clips to my dish and get the locals? (I think so again...)

If both of those are true, I can't find any reason why I wouldn't just get the HD Tivo from D*TV and get the locals OTA - I only have one HD tv and can move the SD Tivo into the bedroom at that point...

Any guidance would be GREATLY appreciated.

TIA,
Pixel

I live in Mesquite Ranch, one block north of Valencia off Hougton. With an indoor antenna, I'm getting all local HD with an indoor antenna. I'm having an outdoor antenna installed because, occasionally, when somebody walks past the antenna the signal drops out briefly. Antennaweb shows us not getting KWBA, yet it is my strongest signal. You should have no problems getting OTA reception. The "included" antenna may not be the best, I've never had luck with Terk. You can try different antennas from Best Buy or Walmart. If they don't work, just return them.

By the way...yes...ABC and NBC are available OTA (as are Fox, PBS, CBS, ABC and WB). You will get the digital version of UPN 18, no HD but good PQ.

Channel 210 if you have a set top box or DVR, and 89.1 if you have a digital cable compatible TV.

Steve Somerville
KGUN-TV/DT

Channel 210 if you have a set top box or DVR, and 89.1 if you have a digital cable compatible TV.

Steve Somerville
KGUN-TV/DT
Well, that's excellent news for all parties involved.
I'm curious which side caved in. Did Comcast decide to fork over the cash that KGUN wanted, or did KGUN decide that it was better to have more viewers not paying than less viewers not paying?

Channel 210 if you have a set top box or DVR, and 89.1 if you have a digital cable compatible TV.

Steve Somerville
KGUN-TV/DT

Just checked and 210 has just added itself to the cable box in time for the Rose Bowl Game in HD (Great Picture in 720p) and I was able to also get it on 89.1, and now I can start watching some shows on KGUN 9 again!

Well, that's excellent news for all parties involved.
I'm curious which side caved in. Did Comcast decide to fork over the cash that KGUN wanted, or did KGUN decide that it was better to have more viewers not paying than less viewers not paying?

That KGUN rolled over doesn't make sense, because then why would they keep Cox from carrying it as well?

Fellow Cox users, please come out in force now and if you don't post here a lot or ever, please post now.

I worked very hard to get the WB on Cox (and Comcast followed) and now I'm sick to my stomach that KGUN/ABC has been able to work out a deal with Comcast and Cox subscribers have neither Fox nor ABC.

We have to write letters or maybe consider calling in and telling them we're going to OTA and satellite. They need to hear from us now.

To this point, no Cox executive has EVER sent me a personal reply to any question. This is unacceptable, people. KVOA/NBC is the lowest rated major channel and with Comcast having everything but them, it's only a matter of time before KVOA decides they have to get on the bandwagon or risk losing the viewers they do have. They have a high rated news broadcast and that will dwindle if they hold out too long. But they are much more inclined to work something out with Comcast where they have competition, while knowing that Cox doesn't have much.

I tried to e-mail a Mr. Nicholson, the GM at KMSB/Fox, and the e-mail was returned as an unknown user. So the GM of a major affiliate has an unworking e-mail posted on his own station's website. I called and he did not return my call.

An e-mail from someone much lower at KMSB was rude and unhelpful but said they wanted Cox to carry them, but "financial reasons" were the issue placed their by Cox. Is he telling the truth? The great thing about the GM at the WB was her willingness to tell their viewers what was going on, so we knew the issues and that put a lot of pressure on Cox when they started getting letters. KMSB doesn't seem to want to help.

But I did some research and KMSB is owned by Belo, Inc. This same company owns the WB affiliate in Phoenix and they "somehow" had no trouble reaching an agreement with Cox to broadcast their HD signal there. Furthermore, Belo is also IN A PARTNERSHIP with Cox in owning a channel in the Phoenix area called the Family Channel, I believe it's called. So, Belo and Cox own a channel together and had no problem getting an agreement for their other Arizona station (the WB in Phoenix) to be broadcast on Cox (their partners) in Phoenix. Yet they can't make a deal in Tucson? Please.

We Cox customers are really getting the shaft and it's just not right. I know some people don't care or might have Comcast already or just use OTA and are not affected by any of this, but we could really use all of the HD communities support here in trying to get this resolved.

If anyone is willing to write letters to Ms. Doris again at Cox, please do so and post that you will or any suggestions or even support here because I do know that KGUN people, at the very least, read this forum.

Sorry for venting. Thanks for all of your help and support.

Hi All, I've been lurking the Tucson board for awhile, but now I have a question or two. I'm in Rita Ranch and have a Silver Sensor antenna going into a DTV HR10-250 for receiving local HD. However, I cannot seem to get all the channels in with a single antenna position.

With Antenna pointed North

Strong Signal: 4.1, 6.1-6.5, 9.1, 11.1, 18.1, 58.1

Weak Signal:13.1, 13.3, 18.1

No Signal: 27.1

With Antenna pointed East

Strong Signal: 4.1. 6.1-6.5, 13.1, 18.1

Weak Signal: 9.1, 11.1

No Signal: 27.1, 58.1

With the Antenna pointed halfway between the two (i.e. NE) I can sometimes get all channels (except 27.1 which appears to be S - SE based) but 9.1, 11.1 and 13.1 are easily interferred with, even if someone just walks across the room.

My questions are:

1. Should I be able to get all channels with the Silver Sensor antenna?

2. Will putting up and external antenna resolve this issue, or will I always have to deal with some sort of directional trade-offs?

Thanks all, the current setup makes trying to Tivo HD locals a bit of crapshoot. I pity the fool who has to explain to his wife why Lost didn't record or is dropping out b/c he forgot to change the antenna direction. :)

Sean

My son has been getting the runaround for about a year from Cox. He has been trying to get them to honor the FCC mandate and get the firewire active on his PVR with no luck. Has anyone out there managed to get a PVR (SA Model 850 I think) that has a active firewire connection? It appears the people at Cox really could care less about the HD subscribers.

Hi Sean and welcome to the board. Since you have been lurking I'm sure you know about antenna web

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

It is the best way to see what your antenna options are for your location. Also some people have had luck mounting the antenna in a crawspace or attic. If you live in an adobe home you may need to go with a roof or outdoor antenna as they are prone to interference.

Good Luck
Austin aka
adash66


Hi All, I've been lurking the Tucson board for awhile, but now I have a question or two. I'm in Rita Ranch and have a Silver Sensor antenna going into a DTV HR10-250 for receiving local HD. However, I cannot seem to get all the channels in with a single antenna position.

With Antenna pointed North

Strong Signal: 4.1, 6.1-6.5, 9.1, 11.1, 18.1, 58.1

Weak Signal:13.1, 13.3, 18.1

No Signal: 27.1

With Antenna pointed East

Strong Signal: 4.1. 6.1-6.5, 13.1, 18.1

Weak Signal: 9.1, 11.1

No Signal: 27.1, 58.1

With the Antenna pointed halfway between the two (i.e. NE) I can sometimes get all channels (except 27.1 which appears to be S - SE based) but 9.1, 11.1 and 13.1 are easily interferred with, even if someone just walks across the room.

My questions are:

1. Should I be able to get all channels with the Silver Sensor antenna?

2. Will putting up and external antenna resolve this issue, or will I always have to deal with some sort of directional trade-offs?

Thanks all, the current setup makes trying to Tivo HD locals a bit of crapshoot. I pity the fool who has to explain to his wife why Lost didn't record or is dropping out b/c he forgot to change the antenna direction. :)

Sean

My son has been getting the runaround for about a year from Cox. He has been trying to get them to honor the FCC mandate and get the firewire active on his PVR with no luck. Has anyone out there managed to get a PVR (SA Model 850 I think) that has a active firewire connection? It appears the people at Cox really could care less about the HD subscribers.


I got mine turned on last summer. Took about 3 calls to get done. The thing I found out is that you can't mention computers or firewire when asking about it, because they say they don't support it. On the 3rd try, I said I had a DVHS deck I was trying to connect to the 1394 port, and the next day it was active.

Don't know if it was the magic words, or I finally got a rep who understood, but keep calling is all I can say.

edit: didn't notice the PVR part. to my knowlege, there is no working firewire firmware for them.

I got mine turned on last summer. Took about 3 calls to get done. The thing I found out is that you can't mention computers or firewire when asking about it, because they say they don't support it. On the 3rd try, I said I had a DVHS deck I was trying to connect to the 1394 port, and the next day it was active.

Don't know if it was the magic words, or I finally got a rep who understood, but keep calling is all I can say.

edit: didn't notice the PVR part. to my knowlege, there is no working firewire firmware for them.

He originally got the standard HD boxes firewire turned on and it worked with his D-VHS recorder but then he switched to the PVR box and it has the firewire but he cannot get them to activate it.

edit: didn't notice the PVR part. to my knowlege, there is no working firewire firmware for them.

RJRSW,

I am quite certain the above is your answer, at least, that is also what I have heard about the firewire.

Regards,

Rich

By law, cable companies only have to provide one box that supports firewire, of their choosing. In this part of the country (Phoenix/Tucson), Cox will only activate firewire on the SA3250HD (or 3100HD if you were one of the unlucky suckers on the beta test). I ended up having to do the exact same thing as Qwijib0 said to get mine activated, but it was eventually done.

Well, that's excellent news for all parties involved.
I'm curious which side caved in. Did Comcast decide to fork over the cash that KGUN wanted, or did KGUN decide that it was better to have more viewers not paying than less viewers not paying?

Just saw a note in the paper that KGUN's ownership recently changed. Maybe that had something to do with the decision. Now if we can just get KVOA on Comcast we'll be set. They're really going to be hurting now since all the other channels are up, even UPN and WB.

Just saw a note in the paper that KGUN's ownership recently changed. Maybe that had something to do with the decision. Now if we can just get KVOA on Comcast we'll be set. They're really going to be hurting now since all the other channels are up, even UPN and WB.

I have been saying I will switch from Directv to comcast when they have all the local digital channels.. Maybe I will really have to decide soon.. Wonder how long KVOA will hold out.

That's GREAT news for Comcast subscribers that KGUN 9 is finally broadcast in HD.

Now let's turn our attention to KVOA.

Please write to Gary Nielsen, General Manager of KVOA, at

GNielsen@KVOA.com

They are the last of the networks to be broadcast in HD on Comcast. Am I going to switch from my Comcast DVR/HD box at 10:00 pm to my antenna to watch KVOA news? I don't think so!

He needs to know they will be losing viewers. I've even started calling some of the big local advertisers like Jim Click to tell them I won't be watching KVOA any longer because of their refusal to make a deal with Comcast. I guess this gets my "rebellious 1970's protest genes" all stirred up.

Richard

BTW fellow Cox HD subs looks like the Super Bowl is on ABC this year. Unless you want to go to your friends place with Comcast or buy an OTA box which I did last year your only hope is to get on it:

" the high definition tier of Cox Cable sooner rather than later, please make your voice known. Send your pleas to Anne Doris at anne.doris@cox.com and Debbie.Cullen@cox.com "

You may want to CC: AStewart@kgun9.com and if you care about Fox during the playoffs try manager@kmsb.com

It only works if we all ask the squeaky wheel gets the HD.

That KGUN rolled over doesn't make sense, because then why would they keep Cox from carrying it as well?

Fellow Cox users, please come out in force now and if you don't post here a lot or ever, please post now.

I worked very hard to get the WB on Cox (and Comcast followed) and now I'm sick to my stomach that KGUN/ABC has been able to work out a deal with Comcast and Cox subscribers have neither Fox nor ABC.

We have to write letters or maybe consider calling in and telling them we're going to OTA and satellite. They need to hear from us now.

To this point, no Cox executive has EVER sent me a personal reply to any question. This is unacceptable, people. KVOA/NBC is the lowest rated major channel and with Comcast having everything but them, it's only a matter of time before KVOA decides they have to get on the bandwagon or risk losing the viewers they do have. They have a high rated news broadcast and that will dwindle if they hold out too long. But they are much more inclined to work something out with Comcast where they have competition, while knowing that Cox doesn't have much.

I tried to e-mail a Mr. Nicholson, the GM at KMSB/Fox, and the e-mail was returned as an unknown user. So the GM of a major affiliate has an unworking e-mail posted on his own station's website. I called and he did not return my call.

An e-mail from someone much lower at KMSB was rude and unhelpful but said they wanted Cox to carry them, but "financial reasons" were the issue placed their by Cox. Is he telling the truth? The great thing about the GM at the WB was her willingness to tell their viewers what was going on, so we knew the issues and that put a lot of pressure on Cox when they started getting letters. KMSB doesn't seem to want to help.

But I did some research and KMSB is owned by Belo, Inc. This same company owns the WB affiliate in Phoenix and they "somehow" had no trouble reaching an agreement with Cox to broadcast their HD signal there. Furthermore, Belo is also IN A PARTNERSHIP with Cox in owning a channel in the Phoenix area called the Family Channel, I believe it's called. So, Belo and Cox own a channel together and had no problem getting an agreement for their other Arizona station (the WB in Phoenix) to be broadcast on Cox (their partners) in Phoenix. Yet they can't make a deal in Tucson? Please.

We Cox customers are really getting the shaft and it's just not right. I know some people don't care or might have Comcast already or just use OTA and are not affected by any of this, but we could really use all of the HD communities support here in trying to get this resolved.

If anyone is willing to write letters to Ms. Doris again at Cox, please do so and post that you will or any suggestions or even support here because I do know that KGUN people, at the very least, read this forum.

Sorry for venting. Thanks for all of your help and support.

It must be because of my location, but I just bought the HR10-250 Tivo from DirecTV and had it installed today - wow what a difference HD makes!

Aside from that, I was supposed to get their $49 antenna to be mounted at the same time for OTA HD channels (locals). They were out of the antenna, and I guess I am glad because the tech told me that the ones they install are crap unless you live in midtown around the UofA area. So, he credited my account the $50 back for the lack of installed antenna.

I figured I would do what the poster above did in Mesquite Ranch - so I went to Circuit City and bought a Terk HDTVi (not the best, but all they really had) and installed it inside, just sitting on my TV. Lo and behold, I get ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, PBS and even two in spanish (I think two) all in hi-def! I think I get either UPN or the WB as well, but not sure - I haven't finished playing around with it.

Aside from that, the picture on the HD channels is AMAZINGly clear - I am really glad I did this. I watched the last part of the Patriots beating the Bucs and it really amazed me that you could see the dirt and sweat on the individual player's jerseys. It was so clear, even my non-techie wife commented on how nice the TV looked. Her comment was "It's like you got glasses for the TV!"...she's mine - all mine. :D

Thought this would help for those that are thinking of jumping ship from DirecTV. Oh, forgot to add - while I was calling in to activate the HD-Tivo (I let the installer go once I got good signal), I mentioned I would really like to check out HBO or Showtime - she gave me Sho for six months FREE and HBO for $2/month for six months! Yeah, I am staying with them for quite some time now.

PixelFreak

I figured I would do what the poster above did in Mesquite Ranch - so I went to Circuit City and bought a Terk HDTVi (not the best, but all they really had) and installed it inside, just sitting on my TV. Lo and behold, I get ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, PBS and even two in spanish (I think two) all in hi-def! I think I get either UPN or the WB as well, but not sure - I haven't finished playing around with it.

Thought this would help for those that are thinking of jumping ship from DirecTV. Oh, forgot to add - while I was calling in to activate the HD-Tivo (I let the installer go once I got good signal), I mentioned I would really like to check out HBO or Showtime - she gave me Sho for six months FREE and HBO for $2/month for six months! Yeah, I am staying with them for quite some time now.

PixelFreak

Congrats on getting local digital via OTA. As for DirecTV, the offer you mentioned for HBO and Showtime is the current standing promotion and is available from Comcast as well. Plus with Comcast you can subscribe to Cinemax HD, and Starz HD. You also get TNT HD, InHD and InHD2, ESPN HD, Discovery HD, plus On Demand HD. Unfortunately for DirecTV, none of these are available, with the exception of Discovery and ESPN. Also for the HD channels that are available on DirecTV (ESPN, Discovery, HDnet, and Universal), you have to spend $11 extra. Not to mention a few hundred $$ for equipment and a minimum one year contract to get DirecTV.

Thats the hubbub ... :cool:

Congrats on getting local digital via OTA. As for DirecTV, the offer you mentioned for HBO and Showtime is the current standing promotion and is available from Comcast as well. Plus with Comcast you can subscribe to Cinemax HD, and Starz HD. You also get TNT HD, InHD and InHD2, ESPN HD, Discovery HD, plus On Demand HD. Unfortunately for DirecTV, none of these are available, with the exception of Discovery and ESPN. Also for the HD channels that are available on DirecTV (ESPN, Discovery, HDnet, and Universal), you have to spend $11 extra. Not to mention a few hundred $$ for equipment and a minimum one year contract to get DirecTV.

Thats the hubbub ... :cool:
Does Comcast charge rent for the DVR's?

I spent the money to go to DirecTV as well. Just installed last week. Dish wouldn't give me the HDDVR for less than 699 and Cox has crap for HD locals. Some folks just don't have a choice! I am very happy with my Tivos and the ability, at last, to record HD. I wish Cox had gotten their act together.

KMSB "Not locked"

I'm getting signal strength of 87, and message "off air signal lost" "Not Locked" on channel 011-01. And, of course, no picture.

DISH Player-DVR 942
Super Silver antenna.

I receive KGUN (9-1) just fine with signal strength of 83

What am I doing wrong that results in the "not locked" situation?

KMSB "Not locked"

I'm getting signal strength of 87, and message "off air signal lost" "Not Locked" on channel 011-01. And, of course, no picture.

DISH Player-DVR 942
Super Silver antenna.

I receive KGUN (9-1) just fine with signal strength of 83

What am I doing wrong that results in the "not locked" situation?I've got the same problem using my Panasonic OTA tuner. This has happened a lot in the past, but even to a worse degree as it caused my plasma to reset its input back to VCR mode.

Funny that it doesn't affect my PC's tuner which uses the same antenna wire.

Does Comcast charge rent for the DVR's?

Yes. There is a HD cable box for $5. And there is a dual tuner HD DVR for $9.95
There is no extra charge for HD channels. They are included in the digital cable package you subscribe to. (Except premiums- HBO, Showtime etc.)

I think Fox's issue is with PSIP. On my tuner, it shows as channel 25.3 OTA and doesn't map to 11.1 as it used to.

I just fired off another round of letters to the folks at Cox. I will be interested in seeing if I get any response at all.

Don't stop sending those emails! Thanks for your support Scott!

I just fired off another round of letters to the folks at Cox. I will be interested in seeing if I get any response at all.

I think Fox's issue is with PSIP. On my tuner, it shows as channel 25.3 OTA and doesn't map to 11.1 as it used to.

Can you rephrase this into English please. :) I have also lost the Fox 11.1 signal even though the signal strength is high.

As I understand it...Digital stations send out a data package called PSIP. You'll notice, for example, digital channel 23.1 shows up on your tuner as 4.1. This is caused by PSIP. There are other factors that map a digital channel to the number you see, but, typically, when channels aren't mapped, there is a problem with the PSIP being generated by the TV station. I have four OTA tuners. One won't give me a picture for Fox at all, the other three will show it on 25.3. It's a matter of how the tuner deals with errors in PSIP.

Welcome to the digital age!

BTW fellow Cox HD subs looks like the Super Bowl is on ABC this year. Unless you want to go to your friends place with Comcast or buy an OTA box which I did last year your only hope is to get on it:

" the high definition tier of Cox Cable sooner rather than later, please make your voice known. Send your pleas to Anne Doris at anne.doris@cox.com and Debbie.Cullen@cox.com "

You may want to CC: AStewart@kgun9.com and if you care about Fox during the playoffs try manager@kmsb.com

It only works if we all ask the squeaky wheel gets the HD.

I am giving Cox 30 days and then I'm ordering a dish. It's put me over the top that Comcast has ABC and Fox and we don't. Honestly, if Comcast could come to a deal, then Cox has no reason not to. Cox simply doesn't seem to care. When we got the WB, Comcast followed immediately and made a deal of their own, not wanting Cox to add something that they wouldn't. All of this shows me that Comcast actually cares about their viewers.

The e-mail you listed for KMSB's manager doesn't work (I've tried it several times before). Their own site lists that as the manager's e-mail address and it get's bounced back. I've called and Nick Nicholson (sp?), the manager at Fox, doesn't return calls either. When I called Belo, which owns KMSB, and owns the WB station in Phoenix which had no problem coming to a quick deal with Cox to share their HD signal and ALSO owns a station WITH Cox, they were rude and dismissive. Why are all these media people SOBs?

Anyway, Anne Doris and her company have a month to give some good news about ABC and Fox or I'm just not waiting any longer. I've never had a dish and I like what's familiar to me and that's Cox cable, but I am not just going to wait around for these HD channels anymore. We should have the local stations like most every other city offers nowadays.

I wish that I could do more, but I didn't spend this much on a tv that I can't maximize, while the "good" folks at Cox keep lying to me and holding off giving me the channels they should already have deals with, while Comcast keeps adding.

Does anyone know if the Winter Olympics will be broadcast in HD? I've looked on the NBC website but have found nothing. I will have to watch KVOA OTA since they are the last hold out not to broadcast HD with Comcast.

Richard

Rory,

Dish doesn't have locals in HD either. And once you switch, you're stuck for a year, or it costs you a lot of money up front. If a satellite company offered Tucson locals in HD then the cable stations would be in real trouble. The only plus you can get with the sat companies is an integrated DVR that will integrate the OTA stuff in one nice box.

I appreciate all your effort to try an get Cox to add the other channels. Hopefully you won't be stuck in a Dish contract once it finally happens.

I forget, what kind of luck have you had with an antenna?

Last time I asked Anne @Cox about KMSB & KGUN (about a week ago) she replied quickly and just said they are in discussions. Just sounds like they aren't going to say anything about anything that isn't firm, typical of any big company. Even with all the WB emails, they never said anything then, and it was done shortly after our emails.

I'm hoping they get KGUN on before the superbowl so I can watch it on my projector. My TV has an integrated tuner, but the projector can only display from the Cable box or DVD player. Guess I could by an external OTA tuner, but figure that would be a waste of money once Cox finally adds the channels. Same reason I'm holding off on putting a better antenna in the attic.

Rory,

Dish doesn't have locals in HD either. And once you switch, you're stuck for a year, or it costs you a lot of money up front. If a satellite company offered Tucson locals in HD then the cable stations would be in real trouble. The only plus you can get with the sat companies is an integrated DVR that will integrate the OTA stuff in one nice box.

I appreciate all your effort to try an get Cox to add the other channels. Hopefully you won't be stuck in a Dish contract once it finally happens.

I forget, what kind of luck have you had with an antenna?

Last time I asked Anne @Cox about KMSB & KGUN (about a week ago) she replied quickly and just said they are in discussions. Just sounds like they aren't going to say anything about anything that isn't firm, typical of any big company. Even with all the WB emails, they never said anything then, and it was done shortly after our emails.

I'm hoping they get KGUN on before the superbowl so I can watch it on my projector. My TV has an integrated tuner, but the projector can only display from the Cable box or DVD player. Guess I could by an external OTA tuner, but figure that would be a waste of money once Cox finally adds the channels. Same reason I'm holding off on putting a better antenna in the attic.

I'm pretty sure that with a dish that you do get, though, an out of market ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, WB, and UPN.

I would also think that they would be in HD. Am I wrong?

I don't really understand why they need more discussions. They now know that Comcast has Fox and ABC. All they should do is match the competition and let us have those same channels in HD as Comcast does.

I'm sure KMSB and KGUN would take the same offer from Cox as they did from Comcast, why would't they? So, at the same time, why would they take less from Cox when they know what they got from Comcast? And it doesn't make sense that Cox would want to be SO behind Comcast in offering the local channels in HD. Now that there are 2 more affiliates on Comcast, Cox really has no good reason to not make something happen.

Especially in time for the Super Bowl.

Does anyone know if the Winter Olympics will be broadcast in HD? I've looked on the NBC website but have found nothing. I will have to watch KVOA OTA since they are the last hold out not to broadcast HD with Comcast.

Richard
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=629087

I'm pretty sure that with a dish that you do get, though, an out of market ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, WB, and UPN.

I would also think that they would be in HD. Am I wrong?




WB and UPN are available as part of a Superstation package on Dish. The Big Four are not available unless you get waivers from the local stations. At this time, DirecTV is the only one offering distant HD, but I doubt anybody here will get a waiver.

My brother in Queen Creek applied for waivers and got them from the local stations in Phoenix. Problem he had was that KVOA denied the waiver so he can't get NBC and he's waiting on a waiver from KGUN. Nearly 100 miles out, not in the DMA, and he still got screwed by the process.

I'm pretty sure that with a dish that you do get, though, an out of market ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, WB, and UPN.

I would also think that they would be in HD. Am I wrong?

Not very likely. You have to get waivers from the local stations to be able to get the distant network channels, and they rarely give them lately.

Best bet to receive them is get the HD OTA channels, if you can receive them. Like someone mentioned, get an intergrated HD DVR, that can receive SAT and HD OTA.

I have a home in Genoa, NV. and we are surrounded by mountains with no hope of receiving SD or HD via an antenna, and they would not give me a waiver for distant channels.

Good luck,

Rich

I don't really understand why they need more discussions. They now know that Comcast has Fox and ABC. All they should do is match the competition and let us have those same channels in HD as Comcast does.



Well there is a big problem for us as consumers. Cox and Comcast aren't competitors in Tucson. You can't switch, unless you are willing to move to a different part of town. Cox isn't going to lose business to Comcast. So unless a competitor that you can easily switch to has a better deal, Cox isn't going to care too much. And I don't think you're going to find any good network HD from the sat companies.

It will be nice once it's all there, but I remember when I was growing up in Maryland one station wasn't on cable for years. I don't know why, but we never had channel 4 from Baltimore, but we had all the rest. My mother now has Channel 4, though I'm not sure the details of when and why she started getting it.

I got an email from KGUN today telling me that the hold up was with Cox. No details at all though.

I got an email from KGUN today telling me that the hold up was with Cox. No details at all though.
Of course the hold up is with Cox. KGUN wants $$$ and Cox has to pay the $$$. Supply and demand. The more we beg KGUN, the higher cost they'll want out of Cox. I'm so glad I get everything OTA!!!

I talked to a neighbor who has DirecTV HD service and says he gets network feeds for CBS, FOX, etc. but they are not in HD. He does get Discovery-HD, etc. in HD, but not network feeds. I told him he could get them OTA and I think he will buy an antenna. Now I am wondering why DirecTV only supplies SD for network feeds when a subscriber (like my neighbor) pays for HD service.

I talked to a neighbor who has DirecTV HD service and says he gets network feeds for CBS, FOX, etc. but they are not in HD. He does get Discovery-HD, etc. in HD, but not network feeds. I told him he could get them OTA and I think he will buy an antenna. Now I am wondering why DirecTV only supplies SD for network feeds when a subscriber (like my neighbor) pays for HD service.

Is the neighbor getting local network feeds? If so, D* is just now rolling out local-into-local HD in the higher DMA's. Since Tucson is so low on the totem pole, I expect that Cox will "probably" have the locals available before D* transmits them here. Or not.

Tony

I talked to a neighbor who has DirecTV HD service and says he gets network feeds for CBS, FOX, etc. but they are not in HD. He does get Discovery-HD, etc. in HD, but not network feeds. I told him he could get them OTA and I think he will buy an antenna. Now I am wondering why DirecTV only supplies SD for network feeds when a subscriber (like my neighbor) pays for HD service.
If you neighbor got waivers for the network feeds over DTV then I doubt he'll be able to pull in HD stations OTA.

DTV's big push is the rollout of HD locals. Phoenix is to be sometime 1Q of this year but Tucson will be a ways out.

I am a Directv cust.. I have waivers from all 4 Tucson networks and I get SD feeds from NY and LA, I also get HD feeds from LA.. That is the best they will give you. The HD feeds from NY were turned off late last year. D* said it was the new Sat law that required them to do this.. I don't understand why it is ok for me to get SD feeds from NY, but illegal to get the HD feeds.. Of course I don't understand a lot of things our govt does.. I also get Tucson locals on Comcast (I get basic cable for free with my overpriced high speed internet).. I called Comcast a while ago and asked if I could rent an HD box so I could get the locals digital feed and to my surpise, they said sure. If Comcast would start carrying KVOA, I would have just about everything..

I also get Tucson locals on Comcast (I get basic cable for free with my overpriced high speed internet).. I called Comcast a while ago and asked if I could rent an HD box so I could get the locals digital feed and to my surpise, they said sure. If Comcast would start carrying KVOA, I would have just about everything..

I also just have minimum Comcast limited basic service with a dual tuner HD PVR and the cable bill runs about twenty five bucks a month. I get CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS, UPN, WB and TNT in HD at no additional charge for service tier upgrades.

Once NBC sees the writing on the wall everything in local digital will be available at no additional charge.

If a person has a QAM capable tuner TV all they have to do is subscribe to limited basic on Comcast for about thirteen dollars a month to get all the local digital channels and you do not even have to rent a HD cable box. I get them all on the Master Bedroom Samsung set with no cable box.

I need help with setting up my expressvu for hdtv here in mesa, zip 85213..i have a dish pro dish, and i've tried all that i know, all i get is a blank screen.Please if any1 here can help me,please post the proper directions for setup on expressvu here in mesa, i just got here last week, and i need my canadian hockey and news channels, ty, Mani

I am a Directv cust.. I have waivers from all 4 Tucson networks and I get SD feeds from NY and LA, I also get HD feeds from LA.. That is the best they will give you. The HD feeds from NY were turned off late last year. D* said it was the new Sat law that required them to do this.. I don't understand why it is ok for me to get SD feeds from NY, but illegal to get the HD feeds.. Of course I don't understand a lot of things our govt does.. I also get Tucson locals on Comcast (I get basic cable for free with my overpriced high speed internet).. I called Comcast a while ago and asked if I could rent an HD box so I could get the locals digital feed and to my surpise, they said sure. If Comcast would start carrying KVOA, I would have just about everything..
OK, how did you go about getting waivers if you live in Tucson? I am completely jealous and would love what you did to get them.

As for now- I am going just fine with the OTA antenna (see previous page), but don't get the WB in HD (not a huge loss, but my wife likes Gilmore Girls)...getting a waiver for all HD LA feeds would remove that eyesore from on top of my TV...

Pixelfreak

I am going to have to give some serious thought to my future television viewing habits. KGUN just responded to me again and claim that it is still a matter of Cox not willing to pay anything for their signal, and KGUN not seeming to be willing to budge on it either. In the meantime, those of us on Cox are screwed.

It might come to it, but I have almost zero interest in getting a OTA tuner that I will not be able to hook up to my DVR. I also hate the idea of having to "go back" to the equivelant to rabbit ears to watch television in the 21st century.

OK, how did you go about getting waivers if you live in Tucson? I am completely jealous and would love what you did to get them.

As for now- I am going just fine with the OTA antenna (see previous page), but don't get the WB in HD (not a huge loss, but my wife likes Gilmore Girls)...getting a waiver for all HD LA feeds would remove that eyesore from on top of my TV...

Pixelfreak

I called Directv and asked them to apply.. That was in Oct of 04, 3 weeks later I got a postcard saying they were all approved.. I can't get any OTA where I live, but as I said, I am only missing KVOA anyway.. Not a big problem for me. I have some friends who applied for waivers also and did not get all nets, or any at all.. Guess I was just lucky..

I did the same thing and got denied for all four even though I am unable to get OTA (except for PBS and WB). You must REALLY live in the boonies. I am in the NW near La Cholla and Lambert.
Jim

Folks:

I am tired of hearing stuff about KGUN and our negotiations with the cable companies. We got a fair deal with Comcast. I cannot disclose the particulars, but both of us are happy. There was a genuine willingness on the part of Comcast to get a deal done.

Any agreement must be good for both parties....it is as simple as that. Negotiations with COX continue and I hope that we can reach an agreement with them before the Super Bowl. However, we are not going to do anything that is not in the best interests of KGUN. We have invested millions in the new technology. We believe that some compensation is not only warranted but fair in light of the fact that most cable viewers watch local television. The cable guys pay much, much more to other networks delivering a fraction of the audience. Unlike Comcast, most of COX's subscribers can receive our over the air signal. Since the ownership change, our position has been greatly modified.

We are not greedy. We only want what is fair.

Ray Depa
General Manager

Ray-

Would KGUN be willing to make the same deal with Cox that you made with Comcast? If so, I don't know why Cox couldn't make money off the deal if Comcast can.

Kirk

I did the same thing and got denied for all four even though I am unable to get OTA (except for PBS and WB). You must REALLY live in the boonies. I am in the NW near La Cholla and Lambert.
Jim

Actually I live in Rancho Vistoso right beside Sun City.. I was just lucky..

I feel for the Cox people (that includes my son) but at least most of the Cox area can get the HD signals over the air. I'm in the Comcast Northwest area with an unobstructed view from my high quality roof antenna of the west side of the mountains including Mt. Lemon and with three different ATSC tuners I cannot pick up or lock in even one of the digital signals from Mt. Bigelow on any of the tuners. I can get the signals of the PBS,WB and the Spanish channel stations to the South easily, even with a small indoor antenna. It is nice to see that Comcast and KGUN finally helped out the Northwest areas that had no other option until and if the local stations ever get around to building repeater antennas in a location that our area can receive a signal from. Now if NBC channel 4 would get with the program a long hard fight will be over at least for the Comcast people.

Folks:
I am tired of hearing stuff about KGUN and our negotiations with the cable companies.
We have invested millions in the new technology.
We are not greedy. We only want what is fair.
Ray Depa
General Manager

If I understand correctly, you feel that much of the cost of the new [digital] technology should be born by cable subscribers and that OTA viewers should get a free ride. I am able to receive KGUN OTA, so this doesn't directly impact me, but I am not sure I would agree that it is fair to those who live within the COX service area and are not able to receive KGUN OTA.

Personally, I think that if COX if offering KGUN the same deal that they do for the other stations (KMSB & KWBA), it would be fair. After all, you are not greedy.

phlewt

If I understand correctly, you feel that much of the cost of the new [digital] technology should be born by cable subscribers and that OTA viewers should get a free ride. I am able to receive KGUN OTA, so this doesn't directly impact me, but I am not sure I would agree that it is fair to those who live within the COX service area and are not able to receive KGUN OTA.

Personally, I think that if COX if offering KGUN the same deal that they do for the other stations (KMSB & KWBA), it would be fair. After all, you are not greedy.

phlewt

I think what he is saying is that there are other cable only stations that are receiving a higher price for their programming, even though they have lower ratings. We don't know what the prices are and can't judge what is fair. All we can do is push the issue with Cox and KGUN and hope they can come to an agreement soon.

After thinking it over, I appreciate Ray's position. The station converted all of their equipment to HD at their expense. There are certainly alot of costs that should be shared by Cox as they will benefit by having all networks in HD. I, personally, switched from Cox to DirecTV because I wanted my HD integrated with the rest of my programming. I have that choice because I'm lucky enough to get their signal OTA. Cox would gain me back as a customer if they had all HD nets.

It'll happen someday.

They converted to digital because it was a LEGAL MANDATE to retain their use of the public airwaves and to HD because of competitive pressure. With that said, I really think that having your premium signal distributed to the public is in the station's interest and they should rush to do it. Viewers drive ad revenues so more viewers equals more $$$ - simple as that. Now you can argue that the number of HD viewers is small which is true but there will more more HD than analog sets sold in 2006 so the numbers will soon be significant.

Complaining to Cox/Comcast about not carrying digital feeds will not do any good.. You need to complain to the ones who pay the bills, the advertisers.. Call them and let them know you will not be buying their products because you can't watch their ad's on the digital channels.. Kvoa might not care if you watch, but the advertisers will..

AGAIN! KMSB can't handle a sporting event in HD. 3rd quarter no HD. Nobody to answer the phones. GRRRR

Are you saying the first half was HD and 3rd quarter wasn't?

HD even through the Halftime show, then no HD. Returned to HD with about 10 minutes to go in the 4th. :(

Sad!!! Just plain sad!

What's worse is that there is nobody to call. The station closes the phone lines during non-business hours so all we can do is hope somebody catches it.

Why don't we call on Tuesday (monday is MLK holiday) and ask to talk to the engineering mgr and ask him what we should do in situations like this?
Jim

Since the entire tech side of KMSB seems to be run out of Phoenix, you can try what we do when KASW isn't in HD: call the main KTVK number at (602)207-3333, press 1 to get to the newsroom, then ask to be transferred to engineering. I don't know for sure that KMSB is also run out of this location, but since KTVK, KASW, and KMSB are all owned by Belo, it would make sense.

I have done the same thing when the normal phone number wasn't being answered. I call the news line for breaking news tips and give them the news the person fell asleep at the switch again. I think the news people will get mighty sick of having to take the calls and then something will get done to keep people on their toes.

I need help with setting up my expressvu for hdtv here in mesa, zip 85213..i have a dish pro dish, and i've tried all that i know, all i get is a blank screen.Please if any1 here can help me,please post the proper directions for setup on expressvu here in mesa, i just got here last week, and i need my canadian hockey and news channels, ty, Mani


I don't know what transponders the BEV HD's are on but a couple years ago BEV rented a spare DTV satellite and the trandsponders on this satellite do not cover the US.
At the time I lost about 15 channels so I switched to Starchoice. Starchoice has a superior picture to the other small dishes.
For set up information such as lattitude and longitude go to Mike Kohl's web site, www.global-cm.net. He only carries Starchoice now but if you call him he can tell you if the transponders you want are beamed to US.
Tom

Back to the loss of 11.1, this suddenly returned a few days ago. Is it going to be a new surprise every day? (I have Dish Network).

Not very likely. You have to get waivers from the local stations to be able to get the distant network channels, and they rarely give them lately.

I have a home in Genoa, NV. and we are surrounded by mountains with no hope of receiving SD or HD via an antenna, and they would not give me a waiver for distant channels.

Good luck,

Rich

You can challenge that denial and have you signals checked by a professional. If the signals are within acceptable levels you would have to pay for the measurements, but if they are below acceptable levels the station has to pay for it. In all likely hood the station would not want to go through that process and possibly have to pay for it, and just grant to waiver instead. However, there may be provisions in the new SHVIA that give local stations extensions to these challenges for DTV, as the old SHVA was based mostly on the analog signal and the DTV coverage was based on analog even though the station might have only had a low power DTV over the air at the time. Rather complicated stuff congress has created and they keep changing the rules..

Not very likely. You have to get waivers from the local stations to be able to get the distant network channels, and they rarely give them lately.

I have a home in Genoa, NV. and we are surrounded by mountains with no hope of receiving SD or HD via an antenna, and they would not give me a waiver for distant channels.

Good luck,

Rich

You can challenge that denial and have you signals checked by a professional. If the signals are within acceptable levels you would have to pay for the measurements, but if they are below acceptable levels the station has to pay for it. In all likely hood the station would not want to go through that process and possibly have to pay for it, and just grant to waiver instead. However, there may be provisions in the new SHVIA that give local stations extensions to these challenges for DTV, as the old SHVA was based mostly on the analog signal and the DTV coverage was based on analog even though the station might have only had a low power DTV over the air at the time. Rather complicated stuff congress has created and they keep changing the rules..

Not very likely. You have to get waivers from the local stations to be able to get the distant network channels, and they rarely give them lately.

I have a home in Genoa, NV. and we are surrounded by mountains with no hope of receiving SD or HD via an antenna, and they would not give me a waiver for distant channels.

Good luck,

Rich

You can challenge that denial and have you signals checked by a professional. If the signals are within acceptable levels you would have to pay for the measurements, but if they are below acceptable levels the station has to pay for it. In all likely hood the station would not want to go through that process and possibly have to pay for it, and just grant the waiver instead. However, there may be provisions in the new SHVIA that give local stations extensions to these challenges for DTV, as the old SHVA was based mostly on the analog signal and the DTV coverage was based on analog even though the station might have only had a low power DTV over the air at the time. Rather complicated stuff congress has created, and they keep changing the rules..

So what is the status with Comcast and NBCHD for the Winter Olympics? Any hope?

HD even through the Halftime show, then no HD. Returned to HD with about 10 minutes to go in the 4th. :(
So glad someone else was as peeved as I was about the 'Hawks game! I am a Seattle transplant and was screaming out loud during the 3rd quarter because I thought I did something to my OTA antenna.

I like the idea of calling the PHX number when that happens in the future.

(Go Seahawks!)

PixelFreak

You'll never see a change from 16:9 to 4:3 because of an antenna adjustment. You're either getting the digital signal or not. If it were your antenna, you'd have lost your signal.

Actually I live in Rancho Vistoso right beside Sun City.. I was just lucky..

Hi bigbw,

We are almost neighbors and I had all my waiver requests via DTV denied! I probably live across Rancho Vistoso from you. I just put up a CM4228 and still no joy for reliable OTA. KVOA is excellent, KOLD is variable and KGUN is MIA.

I guess I should request them again. Would you be willing to share details as to how you got them, etc. My email is john (at) ccdware (dot) com.

Thanks,

John

bigbw more than likely had Distance Network Stations prior to sometime in 2004, and they granfathered them in for those people, all others almost assurdly will never get them.

Good luck,

Rich

The thing that I find very annoying is this. I just put up a CM4228 and obtained very good decode indications on the HR10-250 on 13.1. The numbers varied from 70-72, which is excellent and compares with highly variable numbers with the single bay antenna. I thought I had it knocked. That night that channel was highly pixelated and the decode numbers were all over the place from 10 to 50. Through all this, 4.1 is a rock solid 91-92 every time I check it with excellent PQ.

So, thus far, I have expended considerable time and money trying to get the OTA signal from 13.1 with no reliable results. And of course 9.1 barely nudges the needle. <rant on> Yet station management mindlessly refuses waivers. Their intent seems to be to keep me from viewing CBS (and ABC) network programming, at which they are succeeding admirably. I guess the more customers a provider has, the less interest there is in a small sub-set of customers.<rant off>

Hi bigbw,

We are almost neighbors and I had all my waiver requests via DTV denied! I probably live across Rancho Vistoso from you. I just put up a CM4228 and still no joy for reliable OTA. KVOA is excellent, KOLD is variable and KGUN is MIA.

I guess I should request them again. Would you be willing to share details as to how you got them, etc. My email is john (at) ccdware (dot) com.

Thanks,

John

John, I got them in OCT of 2004.. All I did was call Directv cust service and ask them to apply to all networks for waivers. I got a post card about a month later that they had all been granted and turned on. The HD locals from NY were turned off late last year, but I still get Hd from LA and SD from NY/LA.. Since my internet connection is Comcast, I rented a HD box from them and get the digital channels from all but KVOA.. Because of the crazy way Comcast has their pricing, the HD box only cost me $3 per month..

bob

Hi, just wanted to throw this out, I have a Samsung SIR-T165 receiver and a JVC HM-DH30000u D-VHS VCR that I am going to be selling because I'm going to an HTPC with HDTV tuner cards to record HD and won't need to use the receiver and JVC to do it anymore via firewire.

I'm probably going to end up putting them on Ebay after I try advertising them locally in the paper if I don't get any interest in them, so I thought I would see if anyone that looks at this forum might be interested or know of someone that might be. I got both on Ebay about 6 months ago and they have worked fine, you really can record HD on tape and it looks just like the original, you just need the separate receiver and only the 165 has the firewire output to send to the JVC to do the recording. I am going to be asking $250 for each in the paper have both original remotes, and I have 7 D-VHS tapes I've recorded on 10 - 15 times each, so they are still in very good condition that I could include for $5 a tape ($10 or more new). They are the 300 tapes good for 2-1/2 hrs of HD per tape (420s are good for 3-1/2 hrs).

Just let me know if you know of anyone who might want either of these units.

I don't really know which side to take on the whole HD local front. Gen mgr Ray says that Cox wants it for nothing. I understand wanting to make a buck but how did things go down with KOLD? Cox had to make a similar offer to KGUN, KVOA, and KMSB right?

Anyone know the real truth? I just want more HD channels- notably ABC and FSA to catch my Wildcats games. Current feeds look like they are playing in dungeons.

Knowing that Cox has successfully negotiated contracts in Las Vegas and Phoenix with all affiliates, and they have come to terms with two in Tucson, it would appear that the problem is with the stations. Look how long it took Comcast to get Fox and ABC. Note also that NBC hasn't got a deal with either provider.

Bob,

Thanks for the info. Apparently you "got while the getting was good" since I applied and was refused late last year.

In the rumor/FWIW category, my neighbor just had a HD installation by HDTV yesterday. The technician told him DTV would be broadcasting Tucson locals in HD as of April 12, 2006! He said all existing HDTV subscribers would be notified by mail. I don't know how much truth there is in this but some fast equipment replacement would certainly be required if this is being done from the new satellite with MPEG4 compression.

johnzonie, I live in Bullhead City; several local techs have informed me that OTA HD is not available here. I went to D* website and ran my address in their eligiblity site. My results said that I was eligible for ABC, CBS, and FOX but not eligible for NBC. I called D* and informed them I wanted to apply for waivers. The CSR I spoke to immediately told me that I was not eligible. I told him that their own site said I was. I walked him through the site to the eligibility page and he finally told me he got the same results as me but they were wrong, I was not eligible. He said I could email the stations, and gave me a list. He said he would give me 3 months of showtime because I was patient, and that was that. I stewed on it a day and decided to send off my own emails to station managers; several responded back to tell me D* had to apply on my behalf. I got slightly perturbed and proceeded to send an email to D* demanding that they apply for the waivers on my behalf. In that email I also cut/paste the results of running my address in the antennaweb site, and I cut/paste the results of the eligibility review on their site. The next day I got an email stating that they had granted me a waiver for ABC and FOX, they turned the stations on, and would let me know about the others. I ran my address in their eligibility site again and the results came up much different (showing me eligible for 2, not eligible for 2); I guess they finally got around to fixing their site after I complained. It is kind of strange how a guy across the street from you got the waivers but you cant. I just received a postcard from D* that my NBC waiver was denied. I really want CBS because of football but it doesnt look good. Anyway, if you are applying for waivers make sure you keep insisting to the CSR that you are applying for a digital waiver for High Def. I should be happy, 2 out of 4 is not bad. IMO with D*, the squeaky wheel gets greased so keep emailing D* until you get the post-card denials. A friend of mine who was an ex D* CSR told me to call D* up and tell them I moved to Truxton (a town in the boonies with no OTA reception at all) and I would receive all the waivers. I wont do it but its a shame people have to resort to that. Good luck!

Bob,

Thanks for the info. Apparently you "got while the getting was good" since I applied and was refused late last year.

In the rumor/FWIW category, my neighbor just had a HD installation by HDTV yesterday. The technician told him DTV would be broadcasting Tucson locals in HD as of April 12, 2006! He said all existing HDTV subscribers would be notified by mail. I don't know how much truth there is in this but some fast equipment replacement would certainly be required if this is being done from the new satellite with MPEG4 compression.

Johnzonie
If that is true, I will be just about as surprised as I was when the 49ers won their first super bowl!! Our friends up north in PHX are the 15th largest market in the nation and they don't even have them yet.. Time will tell, strangers things have happened..

I don't really know which side to take on the whole HD local front. Gen mgr Ray says that Cox wants it for nothing. I understand wanting to make a buck but how did things go down with KOLD? Cox had to make a similar offer to KGUN, KVOA, and KMSB right?

Anyone know the real truth? I just want more HD channels- notably ABC and FSA to catch my Wildcats games. Current feeds look like they are playing in dungeons.

I chose to avoid even responding to Mr. Depa's "load of crap" post, but it is tough to take sides between two sets of groups who both have no problem lying to their customers. But, as much as is possible, I take the side of Cox in this one. KGUN has chosen to be dishonest, while Cox has simply ignored me.

But I look at the WB and how they handled the situation. They engaged me as a viewer and sought out ways to keep me informed and to listen to my opinions. Eventually, that led to them posting information about the HD "controversy" directly on their website. Within weeks, they had a deal with Cox done.

KGUN (and to a lesser extent KMSB...but barely) have been the polar opposite in dealing with their viewers. The bottom line is when cable first came on the scene, people had outdoor antennas or rabbit ears already. Their primary service was to bring in channels that you cannot get locally. As people switched to cable for these services, it was only helpful to the local channels across the country to have their feeds brought into people's homes through the cable.

Mr. Depa says he's not greedy, but then states he can't share ANY information with us about what the troubles are. So, how can he claim something while giving no information to back it up? Trust? I don't think so. KGUN would have had to spend the millions on HD even if there was no such thing as cable. Who would he have tried to force to help him pay these costs then? If Cox should have to pay for a free service over the air to help him subsidize the costs of HD, why doesn't he send his cronies door to door to demand people who get it for free OTA cough up some money?

The cablecos are hard to defend, but they have a barrel to their heads because people like Depa and Belo, Inc don't mind what they're doing. Eventually, left to their own devices, neither side would do a thing. Only pressure and, in many cases in larger markets, the knowledge that they'll eventually have to cave in to the affiliates at some point, so why not do it now and make their customers happy before they switch off, is why you have deals done. We're still a ways away from HD issues being large enough of any issue with the masses where the people at KGUN, KMSB, and KVOA would really be leaned on enough by viewers and sponsors to share their feed for whatever deal is on the table. In this fight, it's Cox that eventually will have to back down. If the DTV rumor is true, then Cox will be forced to up their offer. So people like Ray Depa have no reason to make a deal happen. And clearly no reason to be honest with his viewers or engage them in this discussion, which could have resulted in a deal with Cox months and months ago.

I just don't watch his channel and promise to remember how certain affiliates handled this situation in the future.

As far as Cox is concerned, I wrote that if they didn't make a deal or, at least, write me back and explain to me as a "valued customer" to share some info on why Comcast has 2 more affiliates than we do before the Super Bowl that I'd be getting a dish. If the DTV rumor is true and Cox finally is forced into adding the channels, I will still be saying, "See Ya, Cox" to Ms. Doris. I have received no response at all. 2 weeks and the clock is ticking.

This whole thing is ridiculous for all of us who want HD and are being prevented from having it. To quote my favorite station manager, "We are not greedy. We only want what is fair."

Great post Rory_Gilmore,

I do not even live in Tucson yet (building a house as I write this), but I am very concerned when I eventually do, and this is the kind of response that is needed to get these jerks off their A**'s, whether it does any good is subjective, but I hope so.

Thank you Rory_Gilmore,

Rich

I went to my mailbox and found this piece of garbage from Anne Doris and the great people at Cox.

At Cox Communications, our goal is to bring you the very best entertainment, technology, and service. From high definition programming and digital video recorder service to award winning high-speed internet and telephone service, we are committed to being your digital communications company.

Notice that they use the word "goal". It's my goal to shag Kate Beckinsale, but I must admit that I'm failing miserably to this point. They do open up with all the blowing of smoke up your butt about how great they think they are only to try and lessen the blow of a sudden dose of reality. They continue...

Due to increased operating expenses and escalating costs for the channels we provide you, we are forced to make some changes to the monthly pricing effective with your first billing statement on or after February 15, 2006. Please do know that these changes do not reflect tax or license fees.

In other words, we have to find some way to afford the bloated salaries of our dopey management and charge you for the WBHD deal that we just gave you that we had no intention of doing until you flooded us with e-mail and got the local WB affiliate to help you get more attention to your cause. Also, notice how they use the word forced. They never seem to be forced to offer alternatives like a la carte options, so that we don't have to spend money on 100 channels that we never watch. Here comes the good news...and no they're not writing to tell us they've added NBC, ABC, and FOX in HD.

Your monthly bill will reflect a $2.00 increase on the Cox Limited Basic line item, but this will be offset with a $2.00 decrease on the Cox Expanded line item of your bill. :confused: In addition, your monthly bill will reflect a $1.00 increase for Cox digital cable and a $3.00 increase for your first digital programming tier. These changes will be reflected in the digital cable section of your statement.

Basically, we're charging your more, but not giving you more and still offering the same crappy customer service that we've always given you...but we hope you're happy!

If you have any questions, please call us at 520-207-2091 or vist our web site at www.cox.com/tucson. Thank you for your business.

Sincerely,

Cox Communications

Uh-huh, like the service reps will be able to do anything more than restate that your bill is going up. I will be using that number to cancel. Thanks Anne, I'm getting a dish and I'm switching to Qwest DSL.

It would be nice if they'd given us maybe even a whole month's notice or maybe gave us some information on new programming...say like, HD programming.

I hope others, not just those who visit here, but the public in general, get as fed up with the high prices, the bad customer service, the lack of good HD programming (including all affiliates), and terrible management as I have and they get more and more calls with people who tell them they're cancelling. That's, unfortunately, the only way to get their attention.

They're almost as bad as KGUN.

I've made the switch already. Qwest DSL is amply fast. DL speed of 6 up of 768 for, what ends up being $33.00/month after taxes and credits. DirecTV, even with their impending price increase, is about $40.00/month cheaper than Cox. I have 4 DVRs, 1 HD DVR and TC Premier. I'm lucky to get all OTA digitals, so I don't see myself coming back to Cox any time soon...I needed a new friend in the digital age:)

Frankly, I have had it with the whole thing. I am sick and tired of both Cox and the networks. Neither once seems to care one little bit about their customers/viewers. Cox wants more and more money each and every day to send me limited programming. The network affiliates here in town seems to want to be paid so that I can watch the commercials from their advertisers.

The fact remains that if I am forced to go out and buy and expensive tuner so that I can get OTA HD programming, I will not be sticking with Cox for anything. I have alternatives now for high speed internet, and it looks like the satelite companies have very similiar HD packages. Guess it is time to start doing a little research on that route, as I think Cox and I will be ending a 20 year old relationship.

The ironic thing is that as I was on hold trying to get a name for someone at Cox that I could complain to, they were telling me how for the first time ever I would be able to watch the Olympics on NBCHD.

Frankly, I have had it with the whole thing. I am sick and tired of both Cox and the networks. Neither once seems to care one little bit about their customers/viewers. Cox wants more and more money each and every day to send me limited programming. The network affiliates here in town seems to want to be paid so that I can watch the commercials from their advertisers.

The fact remains that if I am forced to go out and buy and expensive tuner so that I can get OTA HD programming, I will not be sticking with Cox for anything. I have alternatives now for high speed internet, and it looks like the satelite companies have very similiar HD packages. Guess it is time to start doing a little research on that route, as I think Cox and I will be ending a 20 year old relationship.

The ironic thing is that as I was on hold trying to get a name for someone at Cox that I could complain to, they were telling me how for the first time ever I would be able to watch the Olympics on NBCHD.

BE SURE to let Anne Doris at Cox know what you just wrote above.

anne.doris@cox.com

I've lived in Tucson for 8 months now and I think the cable programming is horrendous. Some of my friends live in Phoenix and have such a wide variety of programming in Hi Def and those of us here in Tucson are stuck with basically nothing. It's sad that I won't be able to watch the Olympics in Hi Definition.

I have cable, internet and phone service through Cox, nothing elaborate, just basic stuff and my last bill was $200.68. For What!? Pathetic.

I called Cox and told them I wanted to whittle down some of these charges since I feel I'm getting screwed already. The customer service rep was telling me I should be excited about all the new channels and stations being broadcast in high definition, and he mentioned the upcoming Olympics. I asked him "since when did Tucson get all of this new programming" and his response was, "well I know that Phoenix has these stations". (Obviously clueless about the Tucson market).

Pathetic customer service.

Here is the text of my latest email to Cox. Somehow I expect that this will fall on the same deaf ears as my last few messages.

I appreciate that in the past you have replied to emails I have sent regarding the addition of the WB HD channel here in Tucson, but I am somewhat upset that my recent emails have gone ignored by Cox Communications.

I find it hard to believe that our neighbors who seem to be fortunate to live in the areas covered by Comcast have such a better selection of HD channels than those of us in the Cox coverage area. I have been trying to be patient with Cox but the complete lack of information about when to expect nothing more than what other people in Pima County are enjoying has driven me to the point that I feel I must start looking at other alternatives.

I realize that I can get an antenna and watch the Tucson locals OTA, but that will not integrate with my Cox DVR as it will with the systems from places like Dish and Direct TV. If I am forced to go down that path, I can see no reason to stick with Cox. Seeing that there are also alternatives for high speed internet service, I can't even use the excuse that I want to keep Cox for that.

Please let us, your "valued customers" know what is going on with HD programming in Tucson. Comcast customers are already enjoying ABC and Fox, why can those of us on Cox enjoy the same?

To add insult to injury, when I was on the phone with a Cox customer service rep. this afternoon, I was told how great it would be to watch the Olympics this year on NBC-HD.

I would really appreciate your response to this message, but fear that it will fall on the same deaf ears that previous messages seem to fall on. In the meantime, I will start looking at the alternatives to Cox and your services.

I asked him "since when did Tucson get all of this new programming" and his response was, "well I know that Phoenix has these stations". (Obviously clueless about the Tucson market).

Pathetic customer service.

Probably not clueless, just conditioned to be dishonest. At this point, I do know they've heard enough phone complaints to be very aware that Tucson has far fewer HD channels and doesn't have NBC, ABC, and Fox in HD.

Yet, every time a person calls they act like it's the first time they've heard about it. It's not...it's just another well-trained Anne Doris employee pretending to really care about your problems.

They don't.

I know this is a relatively small forum and I don't know the posters well, but it's time for people to get mad and to get active. I've tried to get the Star to do a story, but a few more calls, maybe even a lot of calls, would go a long way to letting them know they really have a story people are interested in.

Polite is always the best way to handle things, but there's a time when you have to realize that it's futile and that those you are trying to deal with aren't really concerned with being polite to you.

I can do a lot, but not alone. Certainly, we could all work together and possibly add a list of those who do run commercials on those channels that won't share their HD channels with Cox. Then we could call and tell them that we won't be watching those channels, we won't do business with them, we'll be telling our friends to do the same, it wouldn't hurt to let them know HDTVs will out-sell standard TVs this year and that they will be potentially taking a gamble with a lot of eyeballs if they don't take us seriously, and also let them know that we're gonna shine some light on this issue and not let up.

A lot of HD TV owners probably don't even know what's going on. If we got their attention through the paper and got all of them to get involved, things would happen really fast.

Just some ideas. I know we're all busy, but if we all pitch in we could effect change. Otherwise, we're still at their mercy. And, on top of it all, it would feel really good to know we FORCED Cox and the affiliates to finally act when they were perfectly willing to make us all wait. That would be nice.

I posted this earlier and got little response. The place to call is the City of Tucson's IT Services department. They are responsible for the contracts the city signs allowing Cox to provide cable service. At least let those decision makers feel some of our frustration.

i've been doing some research into the best way to go about upgrading to HD to feed my new westinghouse 32" LCD. this particular thread has been most helpful in illuminating the full depths of lameness that the HD situation in tucson reaches. it's sad, but more sadly not surprising.

anyway, i'm stuck with OTA, cox, DTV, or dish. dish sucks, i have DTV for SD-tivo, OTA is tricky where i'm at, and i already have cox for internet. i seriously considered going OTA with an HTPC until i did tests with an HD tuner card and some antennae. i'm in a townhouse so i can't put a big antenna on the roof and none of the indoor ones i tried worked half a damn. i could get KUAT and KGUN consistently, but nothing else. sticking an antenna out by my dish like the ones DTV provides didn't help much. i get massive multipath from bigelow no matter what due to where i'm at in relation to the rest of the geography in the area. KUAT on tumamoc isn't affected, of course, and for some reason KGUN also isn't affected as much for either analog or digital. KUAZ/KUAT/KXCI FM broadcast from bigelow and all suffer where i'm at, too, BTW.

so with that out i looked at cox and discovered the lameness there that's been discussed at length here. i'd pay 50% more per month than i do now with DTV and would only get 3 locals plus 7 other national feeds in HD (i'd get HBO plus basic). of course, the 3 locals don't include the 3 i'd really want, namely fox (24), NBC (torino), and ABC (superbowl). superweak. as per the recommendation of many, i'm e-mailing anne doris to express my dismay at the lameness and self-defeating weakness of it all. local cable co's are drowning in bandwidth compared to the satellite providers. better HD service is a perfect way to take advantage of this and lure customers away from satellite before dish/DTV launch more birds to close the gap.

i don't care whether cox or the local stations are ultimately to blame for the current situation. they're both idiotic self-defeatists and i won't spend any more money on them until the situation improves.

tim

I have tried on several occasions to make my concerns known and asked politely to have questions answered when emailing those responsible at Cox. Every email has either been ignored or returned unopened. Yeah, they really care about customers.

If I thought contacting the Az Star would help I would do it. The fact remains that this "paper" is a rag that reports front page about inane stupidity. I refuse to read their version of the news and they care even less about customer service. I know this first-hand from whence I was young and easily impressionable - and sadly, yes, used to be a subscriber. When I would call about the piss poor writing, the lack of fact-checking, or even that my house was missed from receiving a copy, I would get the old Cox treatment. Deny, deny, deny - "something will be done about it, sir." Also consider the point that Cox is a sponsor of the Star. They are not about to bite a hand that feeds them.

Don't waste your time. The only way Cox will get the point is to let them know the reason we are cancelling our subscriptions. DTV offered me some decent incentives to return. I am going to need an OTA antenna to get FOX and ABC HD feeds anyway - might as well pay someone who pretends to care about me as a subscriber. I am not saying it is the best solution, but at the very least, Cox will know a former subscriber's complaints and get them formally logged.

This may be a bit OT but has anyone else noticed the frequent (one every 3-4 minutes) loss of audio and video freezes on KGUN? They were on "Desperate Housewifes" on Sunday as well as "Commander in Chief" and "Boston Legal" last night. I watch via Comcast (without a cable box) by using my Samsung's internal tuner.
Thanks
Jim

I watched Boston Legal (what a show!!!) OTA. Had a few audio drop outs as well. They weren't frequent, maybe 3 times throughout the entire show.

This may be a bit OT but has anyone else noticed the frequent (one every 3-4 minutes) loss of audio and video freezes on KGUN? They were on "Desperate Housewifes" on Sunday as well as "Commander in Chief" and "Boston Legal" last night. I watch via Comcast (without a cable box) by using my Samsung's internal tuner.
Thanks
Jim

I have noticed the same thing on my Samsung internal QAM tuner but my Sony QAM internal tuner on the same channel at the same timeI very rarely has any audio or video problems. I think the problem you are having is related to the tuner in the Samsung or its firmware version.

I posted this earlier and got little response. The place to call is the City of Tucson's IT Services department. They are responsible for the contracts the city signs allowing Cox to provide cable service. At least let those decision makers feel some of our frustration.

Could you please post the number when you get a chance?

thanks.

Here's everything you need. You'll notice at the bottom, they don't have the authority to help with complaints about programming. It still won't hurt if folks start pounding the door there asking the city to help move us into the 21st century!

http://www.ci.tucson.az.us/it/services.html

City of Tucson
Information Technology Department
P.O. Box 27210
Tucson, AZ 85726-7210
(520) 791-4747 Phone
(520) 791-4595 Fax

The City of Tucson provide assistance with licensed cable operators such as Cox and Comcast. The services include the two television cable operators Cox Communications and Comcast, and competitive local telephone, cellular, and wireless providers.

Know your rights as a customer:

If Cox misses a scheduled appointment, you are entitled to $20
Per the license agreement and in City Code 7B, the City does not have the authority to help with complaints about rates or programming

You'll notice at the bottom, they don't have the authority to help with complaints about programming.

Per the license agreement and in City Code 7B, the City does not have the authority to help with complaints about rates or programming


I am not trying to be the jerk here but if the city has no authority to help with complaints, how would this help? My problem is with the programming. Doesn't that preclude the CoT from interacting? Are we truly at the mercy of the cable providers?

Thanks for the effort though, gworkman.

At least it's another avenue to persue. We've tried Cox, the stations, the newspaper, this website and whatever other TV gods there may be. There are folks within the CoT who make decisions regarding our cable providers. The current contract runs through 8/07. If the CoT feels the citizens are happy with the product, the renewal process for ANOTHER 10 YEARS will be a no brainer. I'm hoping that this doesn't go on until 8/07, but it could......

Can I please get some help?

In preparing for leaving Cox, I went and bought and indoor HDTV antenna today. That's the best I can do with an apartment near Speedway and Kolb.

I had Best Buy's manager and the TV dept manager help me and they spent over 45 minutes with me.

I was advised to get the Jensen HDTV antenna, with 25dB amplification.

It's been nothing but a disaster. They told me that KGUN, KVOA, and KBSB-the ones I am most interested in-broadcast from the same direction and when I found the best spot with my antenna direction, that I'd be pretty much set...with only some mild adjustments.

Well, I set it up and for starters it didn't even pick up KOLD. All the channels with a 1 after them where there (4.1, 11.1, 9.1, etc) but there was nothing that I could do that would make it find 13.1. The frustration was only beginning.

The only channel in HD that comes in well is KGUN. The antenna has to be pointing in a pretty specific direction for that, but it does work. However, with it in that position, NBC, FOX, and of course CBS, which isn't even't recognized, are completely absent.

With KVOA and KMSB all I get it a black screen with the words that I have a weak signal. I moved the antenna in every direction and nothing. Sometimes, I can get a barely average signal for a while on those stations, but only by moving the antenna around for several minutes each time I want to change channels. And then I've lost the position for the one channel that actually does seem to come in well, which is KGUN/ABC.

I'm beside myself, because it's far worse than rabbit ears back in the early 80's ever was. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? What, if anything, can I do?

Do you have any way of getting the antenna outside? Temporarily, I stripped off about 6" of insulation from an RG-6 cable. With just that bare wire in the right spot outside, I could get a usable signal from all local digitals. The trick is to get it outside. I know...apartments are tough on this, but if you can just get a wire outside, you may get lucky.

Do you have any way of getting the antenna outside? Temporarily, I stripped off about 6" of insulation from an RG-6 cable. With just that bare wire in the right spot outside, I could get a usable signal from all local digitals. The trick is to get it outside. I know...apartments are tough on this, but if you can just get a wire outside, you may get lucky.

I don't think there is a chance of getting it outside. I wouldn't know how to do it and wouldn't want to wreck this antenna.

What bothers me is that ABC, WB, UPN, and Fox are all from good to perfect.

But my antenna, tv, tuner (???) doesn't even seem to program a 13.1 for KOLD. And 4.1 NBC is basically black all the time.


What's going on? What can I do. There is no signal, for reasons I don't understand, coming in from NBC, but my tv at least shows me a 4.1, yet it doesn't give me a 13.1. I don't get it.

All the signals are coming from around the same place, I get 4 really well and NBC always says it's too weak a signal and it's black. Why would that be?

Anyone??

Rory,

My experiences with OTA with an indoor antenna have been pretty tricky. They all broadcast from the same place, but it took me quite some time to find the sweet spot in my old apartment, which was at 22nd & Pantano. There was one good spot on top of my TV with the antenna pointed and titled just right that was great (note, it wasn't "pointing" North"). Move the base an inch in any direction and I would lose one of the stations. Which station depended on the direction I moved the antenna. The different stations broadcast at different wattages and such so there are differences.

I also bought and returned various antennas from Best Buy, Target, WalMart etc. before I found one that works. The Zenith silver sensor is supposed to be a good one you can get from Sears, though I don't have one.

You are in a good location in the city for reception, given time you'll get a good/ok signal. It's all trial and error and voodoo. Now that I got my house I'll be putting up an outdoor or attic antenna soon enough, but for now I fiddle with the antenna whenever I need to change channels....

What I think is really funny though, is all the energy you've spent dealing with Cox and getting frustrated with Cox, and you're in a fairly good part of town, and this is the first time you tried an antenna :) Good Luck!

Is there a better indoor antenna with 25dB amplification? Do I need more?

What everyone keeps not mentioning is I don't even get a 13.1. I'm not talking about a weak signal or even hardly any signal. I set it up and even though I get, at most, a few minutes of tv watching on NBC, my choices at least include a 4.1

There is no 13.1 at all. Not even a choice.

I can't do anything more with the antenna. I've found spots for 4 stations and I only mess that up moving things around and when I tried, it messed up the good ones and I didn't find anything better.

I really need to know what I can do now given my limitations. The 25dB ampification was the highest one they had at BB. Do I need to find a better one? Will that likely fix my problem? Someone mentioned some kind of booster for the antenna I have...something Radio Shack carries. Has anyone heard of this?

Please, thanks for the help, I can't get one outside, are there any suggestions for what I might try next? Moving it around isn't going to help.

Thanks.

Damn, if I'm in a good location, what does this telling the idiots who run these stations who tell me they want money from cable and I should get an antenna? If this is what it's like for people in a good location, cable or dish with HD is really the only way to go. Or at least at the very top. And they know this and still think it's no big deal that we have to go through this to watch their feeds.

Why should Cox even pay back a portion of the millions Ray Depa thinks they should, when they didn't even have a good plan to make sure OTA would be a real option for most of Tucson and the Tucson viewing area?

I second the Silver Sensor recommendation. It shouldn't need any amplification in your location.

Try running the setup again and letting your receiver re-scan for OTA channels. That might pick up your 13-1.

Rory,

With the antennas, more amplification doesn't mean better. Yes you should try different antennas, that's the best part about shopping at the box stores. You can return stuff all day long. It's all trial and error. You can also get a long coax cable and put the antenna outside for testing purposes. Maybe you have to end up with the antenna on the other side of the room... you'll only know by trying. Getting a TV signal OTA isn't easy, that's why everyone had the huge antennas outside before cable. Indoor antennas are fickle, and that's life.

For the most part, all the local stations are pretty good about putting out a decent OTA signal for those of us not behind a mountain. We can bash them all we want for not wanting to give the signal to the cable co. but they have put in place HDTV OTA and we can get it for a small one time investment (esp. compared to the cost of our TV's :) .) And it's worth noting that Ray's station is one that you can get, and the station you can't get is available on basic cable for $13 a month with a QAM tuner on your TV. Many locations don't have any network HDTV at all, some places the stations haven't even migrated to digital. Some places have everything on cable. We're in the middle. It is what it is.

P.S. Try tuning to channel 32 when you move your antenna around to try and get 13.1, that's the channel that KOLD broadcasts their digital signal on.

I third the Silver Sensor recommendation. Both my son and daughter use that antenna and have no problems picking up all the stations. The area you are in should be pretty easy. I also agree that amplification is not alsways good and is some cases bad unless you are a long way from the broadcast antennas like 50 miles or more.

I use the Silver Sensor from La Cholla just outside of Oro Valley and pick up both PBS 27-1 and WB 58-1 perfectly. The amplification MAY be part of the problem if it overloads due to too strong a signal - lose the amped antenna and try the SS.

I called KGUN about the dropout problem yesterday and talked to "Steve" who was quite knowledgeable. He claims - with good evidence - that the issue is Comcast's antenna. I use my TV's tuner to receive KGUN's HD signal. Steve has both cable and an OTA connection and switches between them and says he sees the audio dropout problem too. He said he would contact Comcast and tell them about the problem.

We'll see if this makes any difference but it was encouraging to talk to someone who actually knows the technology. BTW, he mentioned that KGUN has plans to put in transmitter facilities (probably repeaters) near A-mountain but it will have to wait until the digital conversion because of frequency assignments.

Good news and bad news.

First, I do know that the amplification IS helping me. My area might be great, but my exact spot is blocked by a lot of things and I'm at the lowest point of the property.

Testing for hours shows me that I do very well with the amplification turned way up and it gets really bad if I even turn it down a bit.

I wonder if I can get something to boost the amplification even more.

Anyway, my tuner finally picked up 13.1 (and 13.3 all of a sudden, not that I know what that is), but alas I've never been able to see KOLD with this antenna. All the adjustments in the world and never a picture. I can live with that considering Cox has CBS-HD and I might just cut my cable to the minimum and get DSL from Qwest in protest. They'll be losing plenty of my money.

So, now I can see NBC, WB (also with Cox and OTA), ABC, Fox, and Upn. The only problem is that to keep from having to get up over and over again to adjust for each channel, I've found only one good spot. I can't call it sweet, because it has only minor problem. In this spot, I can get NBC, Fox, ABC, and WB but not UPN. If I tinker to get UPN, I lose Fox.

I've not memorized the move I need to make to get UPN when I have it set up one way and then back to Fox, when I have it the other way. UPN might not matter if they don't show the re-broadcast of Veronica Mars on Sundays in HD. That's the only show I watch on UPN and I would usually watch Lost in HD and DVR Veronica, but if the re-broadcast on Sundays is HD, then I can watch them both! That would be great. Does anyone know?

Just to be safe I ordered a Terk. I will compare them both. This one has some faults to be sure, but I can live with them. Maybe I'll get lucky and the Terk will be better. I've heard other Terks aren't, but this is a newer model, the HDTVA (replacing the HDTVi which got most of the bashing) and the reviews are really good. That's why I chose it to compare.

If I end up keeping the Jensen, I might look into boosting even more to see if I can correct for CBS so I don't have to switch from cable to antenna and maybe be able to get all the channels in one position. But all things considered, this is a whole lot better than it could be.

Funny thing is, and I know you are all laughing (sarcasm), I am not a huge tv viewer. Sports, especially the Super Bowl is very important, but the reason I'm so anal about this is not because I watch tv all the time, but because I want to see the shows that I do watch, which are filmed for HD, as they are intended to be seen. I didn't pay nearly $2,000 to watch Lost in 4x3 or stretched like I'm watching with coke bottles over my eyes.

And what the idiot affiliates don't seem to get, is that I'm SO MUCH more likely to give a show a shot on their channel if it's in HD. Before, I would not watch a show on anything but CBS and the WB because the others are not sharing their feeds. My viewing is sure to go up and my eyeballs see their commercials, which I'm sure is the same for a lot of Tucson residents. I don't get why the Depa's of the world don't get this.

thanks to everyone for their help.

Rory,

You might want to check this out:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html

The two antenna trick.

This is a cool archived thread as well with pictures:

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357599

Some people have had good luck with this....

BB

I would highly recommend that you try the Silver Sensor and forget about the Terk antenna. I have never heard of anyone that has had any luck with Terk and most people consider them to be the bottom of the barrel.

I would highly recommend that you try the Silver Sensor and forget about the Terk antenna. I have never heard of anyone that has had any luck with Terk and most people consider them to be the bottom of the barrel.

The Silver Sensor only has UHF and cbs is 13, abc is 9, nbc is 4, and fox 11. I don't get why I'd want that.

Also, is it amplified? I've already stated that my antenna is working better fully amplified at 25dB. If I turn that down or get something with no amplification my signal will be worse.

I will try the new Terk. I've never heard anyone say anything bad about the new one, so unless you've tried it, it's hard to say they're bottom of the barrell. Some think that about all models.

If it doesn't work, I will send it back and consider trying the Silver Sensor if someone explains why I would want to lose all of my VHF, which is where almost all of the channels are.

I also would like to know if someone knows if there is something I can get to amplify or boost my Jensen?

The multiple antenna thing is too much trouble for me, but thanks.

All the local digital channels are in the UHF band.

NBC is channel 23
ABC is 35
CBS is 32
FOX is 25
PBS is 28 and 30
UPN is 19
And so on.
The tuner remaps from information in the signal to a virtual number like channel 23 shows as 4.1

You only need VHF if you want the old OTA analog channels.

Wildcats@UNC on CBS tommorrow and the only station I can't get OTA is 13-1. I used to get everything until they got the new towers on Bigelow. Then I lost 9-1 and 13-1 but recently I'm able to get 9-1 with a pretty good signal strength but not 13-1. Can't find it no matter how much tweaking the antenna. -RP

I live in Tucson Estates which is out of town on Ajo then Kinney towards the Desert Museum/Tucson Studios. Unfortunately there is a mountain between my house and Mt. Bigelow! We recently purchased an HDTV and would like to receive the locals. According to Antennaweb we should have no problem with WB but unfortunately this is not a favorite and not worth investing in a tuner for.
Am I wasting my time trying to catch a 'bounced' signal from the mountains and if I manage this will it be consistant?
If this is doomed to failure I suppose my only option is Comcast. I have tried to find out if I can just subscribe to just the locals that broadcast HDTV programming and rent a receiver/DVR from them. I have spoken to 3 reps and all agree that for $10 a month the latter is possible but as far as programming is concerned the answers are all over the place. They are basically trying to sell me packages I will never use! Does anyone have this basic local networks HDTV service in Tucson?
By the way I learnt so much from this forum/thread but just cannot find the answers I need. Thanks for any advice and/or information.

I think you can forget about the "bounced" signal but if your HDTV has an HD tuner, it likely has the ability to receive the HD signals on Comcast without a box of any sort. All you need to do is subscribe to the cheapest analog service from comcast and you will find the HD signals from about ch 86 up. That is what I do for local HD broadcasts and it works like a champ on my Samsung set. Until Directv gets their local HD signals that may be your only option.
Jim

Best Buy is generally very liberal on returns. If you don't have an HD Tuner on your set, you can purchase the tuner and antenna from them. If it doesn't work, simply return it. From what I've read here about your side of town, you probably won't have much luck OTA. Like Jim said, your set may be able to pick up the HD channels without a converter box. If your TV comes with a QAM tuner, you can sub to the basic package and get the HD through your tuner without a converter box. If you don't know if your set comes with a QAM tuner, let us know what the brand and model is. We'll be glad to help you.

Here is the text of an email that I just sent to all members of the Tucson City council as well as the Mayor and Council comment mailbox. I also CC'd all the Cox email addresses that I have. While it is true that the city can't do much right now, but if we start putting the bug in the Mayor and Council's ears that there are people unhappy with the way we are being treated by Cox, then maybe they will atleast think about not renewing the franchise next year.

Some of you know me, some do not. I served on the Tucson Small Business Commission for two years and was appointed by the Mayor and Council. I have since left the world of owning my own business and now work in the banking industry, namely banking technology. During my time on the commission, I was fortunate to work with all the members of the council, and various issues such as with Councilman Leal and the proposed city transportation plan a few years ago.

I am writing today in regards the state of High Definition television on Cox Communications. Many of you might be aware that high definition television is the future of television, and federal law will phase it in over the next few years until digital signals will be the only signals available. All of Tucson's network affiliates are currently broadcasting their digital HD signal over the air, but my comments are being directed towards the service being provided by Cox Communications, who operates in Tucson with a franchise agreement with the city.

Cox Communications currently offers only 3 local affiliates. PBS, CBS and The WB. Customers out in the county enjoy ALL the local affiliates except for NBC. When contacting Cox Communications to inquire about the possibility of getting to the same level of service that the people living outside the city enjoy, all comments seem to go on deaf ears. If letters or emails are sent, you simply do not get a reply. If you call the customer service numbers, the representative is normally outside of Tucson and has "no information" about the level of service in Tucson. I realize that you, as members of the Tucson City Council have no direct control over the operations of Cox Communications, but I want to make you aware of the complete lack of customer service by this company, and hope that you will keep this in mind when the time comes to renew their franchise in 2007.

It is true that the number of people who currently own HD television equipment is fairly small, but that number of grow significantly this year as the federal mandate that all new televisions come with digital tuners takes effect.

I thank you for your time and consideration in this. This message is being CC'd to the contacts I know of over at Cox Communications. If you decide to take an active look into this situation, I would appreciate it if you let me know if you can make any progress for those of us that seem forced to be in the Cox Service area.

For those that want them, here are the email addresses for the city council members. I do not have one for Ward 1.

mcweb@tucsonaz.gov, ward3@tucsonaz.gov, steve.leal@tucsonaz.gov, ward2@tucsonaz.gov, ward4@tucsonaz.gov, ward6@tucsonaz.gov

Cox Communications currently offers only 3 local affiliates. PBS, CBS and The WB. Customers out in the county enjoy ALL the local affiliates except for NBC.

I'm not sure what you mean by "out in the county". We live in Green Valley, and we get the identical HD lineup to what is offered in the city of Tucson (i.e., just 3 local affiliates, PBS, CBS and WB).

I'm dazzled by the ad inserts from such places as Best Buy in todays newspaper. They promise to deliver your new HD set in time to see the Super Bowl in HD whether you have cable or satellite. Since the Super Bowl will be on ABC, cable customers will only see it in SD. Will people buy new TVs to see the Super Bowl in HD, and will they complain when they find out they can't see it in HD?

While it is something of a generalization, those inside the city limits of Tucson have Cox. Those in the un-incoprorated areas of Pima County get Comcast. That is what I meant by "out in the county."

While it is something of a generalization, those inside the city limits of Tucson have Cox. Those in the un-incoprorated areas of Pima County get Comcast. That is what I meant by "out in the county."

As far as I know, there is no Comcast service in the Green Valley or Sahuarita area. Perhaps the Comcast service area is more to the northwest of Tucson?

Another point of clarification -- according to their channel lineup, Comcast does not have digital feeds for either NBC (KVOA-DT) or ABC (KGUN-DT). The latter is of concern to anyone wishing to see the Super Bowl, because it will be on ABC this year.

Hi Phlewt,

Comcast's channel lineup is wrong (of course...). KGUN-ABC DTV is part of the lineup, it happened the same day as the Rose Bowl game. However it took 2 weeks for it to show up in the HD part of the channel guide for my 6412 DVR. You could punch in the number and it would tune but the lineup didn't show on the guide...it's does now.

I finally got ticked off enough, again, to call COMCAST yesterday and ask about KVOA-NBC. It started very poorly when the rep said that they would carry it when KVOA actually started HD broadcasts....uhhhh, I spent about 5 minutes arguing with the rep that they have been doing the HD thing for about a year. It ended rather heated with assurances that he would call me back after he checked to make sure he was right and I was wrong. To his credit about 5 minutes later he did call back to apologize. It is sad that I feel thrilled to accept this as "good" service.

The reason I called to begin with was to grouse about the Olympics, the rep did say that KVOA-NBC DTV would be available by the time the Olympics start!

BB

Hi bbbobbb,

Thanks for the info on Comcast. Sounds like Comcast, although not perfect, is much better than Cox (at least in the Tucson area). If I call a Cox CSR, I can almost guarantee that they will tell me that all local digital channels are available on Cox. After the arguments and then looking at the actual channel lineup, they will tell me that the other stations will be available "soon", but they just can't tell me when.

Green Valley and Sahaurita are not in the un-incorporated parts of Pima County. They are their own towns, and as such have made agreements with Cox to be their cable provider.

If you go back though the last 3 or 4 pages of posts here, you will see when Comcast picked up ABC. Good news for those on Comcast that want to watch the Superbowl, not so good news for us on Cox, unless something happens in the next week.

Green Valley and Sahaurita are not in the un-incorporated parts of Pima County. They are their own towns, and as such have made agreements with Cox to be their cable provider.FWIW, I'm "out in the county" west of Camino del Cerro and Silverbell. They have both COX and Comcast here. I have Comcast, and my neighbor has COX.

Here's a good article on how to set up an outside antenna for receiving high-definition TV. http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/01/30/ota-hd-demystified/

Carey, does that mean you have a choice? I didn't think anyone around here had a choice, other than the choice to not have cable.

Green Valley and Sahaurita are not in the un-incorporated parts of Pima County. They are their own towns, and as such have made agreements with Cox to be their cable provider.
Green Valley is classified as unincorporated. Sahuarita, as you note, is a town (with all the good things such as a city sales tax, etc.). I am not aware of any agreements that Sahuarita has made with Cox -- but I would be interested in knowing more about it if such an agreement exists.

phlewt

I got another response from Cox today. I have to admit that I am amazed that someone could type so much, and say so little. Here it is. This time the reply came from the "Director of Government Relations."

Dear Mr. Wood.



I wanted to remind you of the first response Ann Doris, Vice President
of Cox Communications, sent you at the end of November regarding your
High Definition (HD) channels. As stated in that correspondence (see
attached copy of our response to your email), we are in the process of
adding HD content. As you are aware, Cox recently added WB in HD.


The federal law that recently passed requires carriage of all digital
signals, this is different then (HD) signals, with a final phase in by
the year 2009. Many broadcasters demand payment from Cox to receive
their "free" over the air signals to add to our network. It is
important to our customers that these negotiations are not cost
prohibitive to their prices. Cox is more than willing to add these
signals as soon as a fairly negotiated agreement can be reached, as has
happened with the broadcasters currently on our lineup. Not all of the
negotiations are done with local broadcasters, many are part of national
companies and Tucson is not the only city that they represent.


With that being said, Cox currently includes fifteen (15)
High-Definition networks, including the three broadcast stations. Other
parts of Pima County, which are not served by Cox, have all broadcast
stations in HD except for NBC.


I hope this second correspondence has shed additional light as to the
process involved for Cox to provide additional (HD) content, as well as
our desire to enhance our current High Definition lineup as soon as
practicable.


If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.


Respectfully,


Michael A. DiMaria
Director of Government Relations
Southern Arizona

Ok, with that said, I now have some real questions about OTA and the satellite services.

Will both of them offer DVRs that will allow me to connect an OTA tuner? Do either of them offer a DVR that has that tuner built in?

DTV's current HD DVR (HR10-250 Tivo based) has 2 OTA tuners). The new HD DVR from DTV (non-Tivo) is also suppose to have two OTA tuners. Availability unknown. Not sure about the Tivo Series 3 units. I think 2 cablecard slots not unknown about OTA tuners.

I use the HD Tivo from DirecTV. Works great. I'm fortunate to live in an area where OTA reception is great for all digital channels.

I just spent the better part of the evening researching both DirectTV and Dish. It seems that Dish has the best lineup for HD programming, and they are making some big changes tomorrow. They are rolling out HD locals for 50 markets over the next year, and will install the OTA stuff for you if you live outside of those 50 markets. The problem is that they want $300 and up to get a HD DVR system. That is a little more than I want to spend on that.

I so wish that Cox and the locals would just get together and do what is right for their customers and viewers.

On a related note, does anyone have a decent, entry level HT OTA tuner thay they want to sell?

I got another response from Cox today. I have to admit that I am amazed that someone could type so much, and say so little. Here it is. This time the reply came from the "Director of Government Relations."




If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.


Respectfully,


Michael A. DiMaria
Director of Government Relations
Southern Arizona
[/I]


You're surprised?

I would love to meet some of these people in a dark alley.

First of all, they added the WB because I got involved and the WB was very forthcoming in exposing to me the kinds of things Ray Depa won't. They actually took a bold approach and told me that Cox has told them that, while they were telling us all that they were working to add all the affiliates in good faith, they instead had told the WB they they were only interested in the TOP 4. Fox, NBC, ABC, and CBS (which is the one we already had). Heck, by their own admission, they didn't consider the WB a priority and now this guy is reminding you how they just added them.

Certainly, we all didn't have "that" much more leverage as a group in forcing Cox to actually add the WB, but after I pushed them into putting something on their own website, they had a deal within weeks. So you can guess whether or not they actually felt a real squeeze once the the network AND the viewers were on the same page about Cox and their lies.

This guy further states that he's concerned about costs, yet he makes no mention that Cox just raised rates again. So, how much do they really care about what we pay? Why not offer a la carte services?

The one thing I'd most like to ask this guy, since he brought up the fact that large companies own these affiliates, you know like Belo, Inc., so why was Cox able to work out a deal with Belo to get their WB station in Phoenix a long time ago, but are not able to get Belo's KMSB/Fox in Tucson? Cox and Belo are actually business partners in owning a station in Phoenix. Doesn't seem like they'd have a hard time working out a deal with Belo, Inc.

By the way, that e-mail/letter shed absolutely no light on "the
process involved for Cox to provide additional (HD) content, as well as
our desire to enhance our current High Definition lineup as soon as
practicable."

Again, everything has been worked out in Phoenix, Comcast has every channel but one (and, admit it, while you want it, NBC is the suck right now), and Cox considers it a big deal that we have PBS and the WB...a station they didn't even think was worth adding a few months ago, yet we still get the run-around in Tucson. If they cared so much, they'd give all Tucson viewers a decrease in their bill and let the people in Phoenix, who actually have everything, pay the increase in costs.

I just spent the better part of the evening researching both DirectTV and Dish. It seems that Dish has the best lineup for HD programming, and they are making some big changes tomorrow. They are rolling out HD locals for 50 markets over the next year, and will install the OTA stuff for you if you live outside of those 50 markets. The problem is that they want $300 and up to get a HD DVR system. That is a little more than I want to spend on that.

The problem with the $300.00 fee is that you're not purchasing the unit, you are leasing it and agreeing to an 18 month contract. If/when you quit Dish, the equipment goes back and your lease fee is not refunded.

The problem with the $300.00 fee is that you're not purchasing the unit, you are leasing it and agreeing to an 18 month contract. If/when you quit Dish, the equipment goes back and your lease fee is not refunded.

I am at a complete loss as to what I am going to do. I have come to rely on a DVR far more than I thought I would. I am not going to spend $300 now when the Series3 Tivo's are supposed to be out sometime this year. After moving over to HD, I really miss Tivo service.

In any case, it looks like I will have to go with an OTA tuner, which I REALLY do not want to do.

That's where cable shines over DBS. You can go down to Cox, get an HD DVR and set it up. A week later you can decide you don't like it and take it back, and it only cost you one week of service. No setup fee or commitments. I think I tried HD cable with Cox & Comcast a couple of times with my projector but decided to wait. If you go with DBS, and in 4 months all the locals are on Cable, you're stuck until your contract runs out.

It's too bad Cox doesn't have all the local channels, I would have their DVR if they did. Right now I have a Myth PC, but that just does analog cable (Don't want to invest in the hardware needed for HD) We actually don't watch much HD because we don't have an HD DVR. I pretty much just watch live sports, which was my primary goal. My wife just wanted a bigger TV. Plus my favorite show (scrubs) isn't even in HD since I'm the only person that considers it their favorite show (I think.) I can't wait until we can start getting HD movies. That might actually spur a projector upgrade though. Currently the projector is SD and the TV is HD.

It's too bad they don't have DVR boxes that will do OTA, but that would defeat their goal as a cable company I guess.

Personally I knew the HD locals situation before I got my TV, so I'm not too upset about it. I figure it will all come around in due time. I also knew I lived in a good reception area. Before I lived in the northwest, and didn't buy a HDTV because I knew it would be a waste. We just recently moved due to a new baby and needing a larger house. I'm in SE Tucson now. A consideration when house hunting was TV reception. Now if my wife really liked a house behind a mountain, that's where we'd end up, TV isn't that important. But luckily the house that we picked is about 20 miles from Bigalo, with no obstructions. It wasn't until I knew I wouldn't have a problem with HDTV reception that I purchased my TV.

It's funny that we're in an age now where we just expect things to work. This is new technology, and a little research before a large purchase would have set everyone's expectations a little better. I hope Cox holds out and gets the channels for as little money as possible. Any costs they incure in adding the locals will surely be passed onto us, in addition to any other rate hikes.

I don't want to pollute this thread, but I thought I would mention one more time in case anyone is interested or knows of someone that might be that I have a Samsung SIR-T165 HDTV receiver with firewire and DVI out as well as a JVC HM-DH30000u Digital VCR which can be used with the receiver to record OTA HD.

They're both around 6 months old, got them like new on Ebay and I'm only selling because I invested in an HTPC to record HD now. Original remotes, and I have 7 D-VHS tapes good for 2-1/2 hrs of HD recording each, used 10 - 15 times each for $5 each. I also have a firewire cable (15') and DVI cable to go with the units. I'm asking $225 each for the receiver and the VCR.

Thanks in advance if anyone is interested or could let me know of someone who might be.

Just out of curiosity, which HTPC did you go with?

Many thanks in advance,

Rich

There is some good news for Cox customers when it comes to the Olympics. It looks like NBC will be running some coverage on the UniversalHD channel, which Cox does carry.

The problem with the $300.00 fee is that you're not purchasing the unit, you are leasing it and agreeing to an 18 month contract. If/when you quit Dish, the equipment goes back and your lease fee is not refunded.

Where did you find that info, I went to their website, and could not find any of that information, in fact, I couldn't find anything about HD for locals. Perhaps I am looking in all the wrong places, but........

You can pre-order the 622VIP for $649.00
http://www.dishdepot.com/622_mpeg4_hd_dvr.jsp

According to this FAQ from Dish, you can also lease the receiver for $299.00.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=7088&d=1138760034

You won't find anything about local channels anywhere. They don't yet exist on Dish Net. When they do come, they plan on launching 50 markets. All other markets will have to get their fix OTA. I highly doubt Tucson will be in their HD Local plans.

You can pre-order the 622VIP for $649.00
http://www.dishdepot.com/622_mpeg4_hd_dvr.jsp

According to this FAQ from Dish, you can also lease the receiver for $299.00.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=7088&d=1138760034

You won't find anything about local channels anywhere. They don't yet exist on Dish Net. When they do come, they plan on launching 50 markets. All other markets will have to get their fix OTA. I highly doubt Tucson will be in their HD Local plans.

I have been doing some digging around. They launched local HD today, but only in a couple markets. They are planning on doing 50 markets over the first year. They are not saying how they are determining the 50 markets. It might be the 50 biggest markets, or maybe not. They are saying that they will cover about 1/2 of all US households with these 50 markets. You will have to have a Dish1000 dish, and one of the VIP boxes. If you want the DVR, it will cost you $300 for the privelage of using it.

All I have been able to find out so far is that NY and LA have been turned on.

Just out of curiosity, which HTPC did you go with?

Many thanks in advance,

Rich

I got a Dell 9100 (same as 9150 or XPS400) with the Dual Core P4 2.8Ghz CPU, 1GB RAM (it came with 2GB but always showed around 1500MB free so I took 1GB out), 2x250GB SATA in RAID1 (mirrored so 250GB useable) which is good for about 22 - 23 hrs of HD recording (8GB per Hr for HD) and I will probably add another 2x300GB SATA RAID1 in a little while. GeForce 6600GT 128MB video card, need at least an ATI x700pro or x800 or better or the GeForce 6600 series or 6800 or better for HD playback. I have an ATI HDTV Wonder PCI card tuner and a Kworld ATSC-110 PCI card tuner and I'm using BeyondTV 4 for the PVR software as opposed to XP MCE 2005 (XP Pro is the Op Sys but XP Home would work just as well I would think). The 9100/9150 XPS 400 comes with 3 PCI slots as opposed to the cheaper Dell models which only come with 2. I want to get 3 tuners eventually to record 3 HD programs at the same time, so I needed 3 PCI slots. Other motherboards for AMD CPUs come with 4 PCI slots. I'm using the onboard 5.1 sound since I don't have a free PCI slot for the Audigy 2 ZS sound card it came with. I might get an external USB HD tuner though so I can use the sound card depending on if I notice any difference in the sound between the onboard and sound card (still testing the whole thing). I can record 2 HD programs currently while watching a 3rd that was previously recorded, or you can watch live TV with a 60 minute rolling buffer. BeyondTV has free listings included with their software so you can do Tivo like setup within their program guide for all New shows only and that kind of thing. You can set up manual recordings as well. This is all for OTA though not cable HD because only the DVICO Fusion HD tuner cards will do QAM tuning and you have to use their software to do it which I guess is really ugly. That wasn't a concern for me I don't have cable, but just wanted to mention that. You pretty much need this level of PC to do this, I tried it on my older Dell and maybe it was the hard drive because it only has a 2MB cache not 8MB but it would get jerky during recording one program while I was watching another that's why I went with the Dual Core CPU thinking those two tasks could be split between the two cores and most likely the better hard drives are helping as well.

If there's anything else just let me know, looking forward to recording the winter olympics since they are going to show the actual broadcast in HD this time not the next day like for the summer olympics.