Cox certainly seems to be taking more steps backwards regarding HD in Tucson. Try finding any info regarding HD on their website. It has all disappeared! The only evidence of HD in Tucson now is the bleak channel lineup found under the digital packages. No more bragging about how they have more HD than anybody else.

OUR FRIEND IN THE DIGITAL AGE

Yes it looks like COX is really streamlining their website. If you go to any cox.com page and use the pulldown menu to "Find service in your area", there are no longer separate Phoenix and Tucson areas, just an "Arizona" area.

If you go to the channel line up section there are only listing for Phoenix and Casa Grande. Given our level of service here in Tucson, that seems about right.

So is COX in Tucson just a franchise? About to loose their lease? Maybe Corporate COX is starting to cut themselves off from whoever has the franchise in Tucson. ;)

I never really understood how the channel line up here in Phoenix is SO different that was you guys get down there. :eek:

There is no change in the franchise agreements, although we'd certainly appreciate some change for the better. Adding MHD is just another example of how far out in left field Cox is to the clients. How many adults, who pay the bill for HD, have been clamoring for this addition? I'm so disgruntled with Cox at this point that, even if they added all local HD and had an equal or lower cost than my arrangement with SAT, I wouldn't let those liars serve my household.

My son is in the Cox area and he is so disgusted with them his hair stands up on the back of his neck when you mention the name. I am so glad that I have Comcast serving me, they are not perfect but at least they try to do what the majority of the people they serve are looking for. Cox management in Tucson appears to be catering to the minority of customers not the majority. The new added HD channel is a perfect example of who they think are the important subscribers. You Cox subscribers in Tucson need to start a relentless campaign of complaining to the parent company and the City of Tucson about the poor service and channel line up that the Tucson Cox management team is providing. Some of the things that my son has gone through when dealing with them are unbelievable. The upper management there has to be totally incompetent!

Thought I'd shoot off another e-mail message asking what happened to Tucson on their website. Click on "Contact Us" and it's a dead link. I entered my zip code to see if it would produce a Tucson-based channel line-up...no. Of course, I could call them and have a CSR tell me that I do get HD locals :(

I called KGUN this afternoon to ask about the audio dropouts. I was patched right through to the engineers. They had folks out from ABC today to peak their equipment. There are also some issues up on the mountain that they will be addressing tomorrow. The power failure last week was due to the lines on the mountain and issues with trees. TEP is trying to clear the tree issue, but tree lovers are fighting back. It was really great that they patched me through to the right people and that they are working on the problems. They did state that the Comcast issue is being worked on, but it is a whole other issue.

I posted this question in the general thread, but thought maybe you local guru's might know better:

I have yet to build my HTPC w/ the HD tuners, and before I do, I want to ensure that I'm going to pick up the local HD channels (I live out in Rita Ranch). My cheap indoor VHF/UHF antenna is picking up the VHF channels from Mt. Biggelow without a problem (local 4, 9, 13) and I get Fox 11, UPN 69 and WB 114 too. Is it safe to assume that if I'm getting the VHF signals indoors from that location that I'll get the HD UHF signals from the same location using an indoor antenna?

AntennaWeb.org shows me being almost exactly 20 miles from the Mt. Biggelow towers, and it seems to be almost a straight shot to them (assuming my neighbor's house isn't a big deal). Does indoor seem reasonable? To be honest I'm just trying to avoid the hassle the of mounting and wiring everything for an outdoor antenna. Any thoughts you can provide are much appreciated!

My daughters house is just south of the freeway near Kolb and they have no problem with any of the digital channels on Bigelow using a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna sitting on a side cabinet in their living room with two house walls between them and the towers. My son is near Houghton and Golf Links and he has no problem either with a indoor antenna.

I live in Rita Ranc and have had very good success from indoors with a Silver Sensor antenna as well. If you can see the lights on Biglow you should be fine...

IIs it safe to assume that if I'm getting the VHF signals indoors from that location that I'll get the HD UHF signals from the same location using an indoor antenna? AntennaWeb.org shows me being almost exactly 20 miles from the Mt. Biggelow towers, and it seems to be almost a straight shot to them (assuming my neighbor's house isn't a big deal). Does indoor seem reasonable? To be honest I'm just trying to avoid the hassle the of mounting and wiring everything for an outdoor antenna. Any thoughts you can provide are much appreciated!

Hi Scotty - When I was renting in Tucson (I've moved out to Cochise County), I lived near Country Club & Ft. Lowell. AntennaWeb.org showed that at 16.2 miles from Mt. Bigelow. I got excellent reception with an indoor antenna, a Terk HDTVa. UHF signals are much more directional than VHF and you'll need an indoor antenna with directional UHF; "rabbit ears" won't work. Other members here like the Silver Sensor antenna; I tried both and found the Terk HDTVa worked better for me as it has an amplifier. I got mine at Radio Shack.

And, as UHF is highly directional, you should get all the stations on Mt. Bigelow (4.1; 6.1-5; 9.1; 11.1, & 13.1) while pointed in that direction. But you will probably have to turn the antenna to the southeast to get WB from SV, and to the the NW to get 27.1, PBS HD. What tuner are you going to use for your HTPC? I went with Fusion5 and am very happy with it. But if you need HDTV out MyHD has DVI out as an option. My HTPC has an ATI All In Wonder video card, so I use that for component HD out. Good luck!

Thank you all for the quick replies. That resolves a lot of my concerns. I was thinking about getting the DB2 multi-direction antenna from Antennas Direct. While it's not the pretties thing I've seen, I was hoping to avoid having to point the thing in different directions. It's listed with a 30 mile range. Not sure it that's good enough to get the WB station from SV, though.

As for the HD tuner in my PC, I was going to get two of the AverMedia A180's. It seemed to get pretty good reviews on newegg.com, where I do most of my computer purchasing.

Thank you all for the quick replies. As for the HD tuner in my PC, I was going to get two of the AverMedia A180's. It seemed to get pretty good reviews on newegg.com, where I do most of my computer purchasing.

I don't want to clutter up this forum for HDTV Info & Reception for Tucson with posts on HTPC's, but -

I use newegg.com for most computer purchases; they're very good.
Newegg's specs on the AverMedia A180 say "Video capture resolution up to 720 X 480 (NTSC)". That won't give you recordings of 1080i programing. You might want want to look around a little more before you decide.

Thank you all for the quick replies. That resolves a lot of my concerns. I was thinking about getting the DB2 multi-direction antenna from Antennas Direct. While it's not the pretties thing I've seen, I was hoping to avoid having to point the thing in different directions. It's listed with a 30 mile range. Not sure it that's good enough to get the WB station from SV, though.

As for the HD tuner in my PC, I was going to get two of the AverMedia A180's. It seemed to get pretty good reviews on newegg.com, where I do most of my computer purchasing.

I am using the DB2 antenna on my rooftop and it is the best of all I tried. If you need more range I think they have a DB4 model.

I am using the DB2 antenna on my rooftop and it is the best of all I tried. If you need more range I think they have a DB4 model.

Did you ever try this one indoors?

Did you ever try this one indoors?

Yes I originally had it indoors and it worked even better then the Silver Sensor. More gain without multipath problems.

[QUOTE=DaveinTucson]
....
And, as UHF is highly directional, you should get all the stations on Mt. Bigelow (4.1; 6.1-5; 9.1; 11.1, & 13.1) while pointed in that direction.
....

Hey! I get the other OTA stations fine from Bigelow but not 4.1! Is this a typo? I just get the analog 4.

Central Tucson near Country Club and Pima.

Hey! I get the other OTA stations fine from Bigelow but not 4.1! Is this a typo? I just get the analog 4.

Central Tucson near Country Club and Pima.

Nope, no typo. KVOA Digital 4.1 is right up there on Mt. Bigelow with the rest. I even get out here in Cochise, almost 60 miles out.
Try a re-scan on your tuner or re-aiming your antenna. The UHF frequency assignment is 23. Most tuners pick up the channel header info from the signal and put it right next to the analog channel #. I.E., KMSB (Fox) digital is UHF 25, but most tuners recognize that it is 11.1. Do you maybe have a listing in your tuner for something at channel 23? My Dish Network receiver first put KMSB digital at channel 25 on the scan for the antenna input, but after a day or so figured out that it was 11.1

Here's a fun map...
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast-market.php?dma_name[]=Tucson+%28Sierra+Vista%29

Newegg's specs on the AverMedia A180 say "Video capture resolution up to 720 X 480 (NTSC)". That won't give you recordings of 1080i programing. You might want want to look around a little more before you decide.

I think those are the specs for video capture (maybe via s-video or composite video) other than the ASTC digital tuner which is mentioned here in the specs:

Support free over-the-air ATSC signal 480p, 720p and 1080i (with wide screen support)

However, I've seen reviews and posts on forums that mostly say the AverMedia tuner is not very good, they were all getting better tuning with ATI HDTV Wonder, Fusion, Vbox Cat's Eye, MyHD etc. and also supposedly the CPU usage for this card is much higher than other cards, one reason probably why they are so cheap. I was going to get one because they were lower price until I saw these reviews/posts about the cards. Please check for yourself though, I'm just letting you know what I saw.

I have Kworld ATSC-110 cards and an ATI HDTV wonder and they both work fine (there was an issue with the Kworld card and Standby/Hibernation but a driver update fixed that issue). Have you decided on what software you're going to use or do you have XP MCE 2005? What are your PC specs and what video card do you have?

Good news for those of us living in Sahuarita -- the town is thinking about putting in a wireless internet service for town residents (see http://www.sahuaritasun.com/articles/2006/03/29/news/news01.txt).

This could motivate me to drop my Cox cable service and subscribe to satellite TV -- especially if Cox (Anne Doris) is still "working with the two remaining local broadcasters KGUN (ABC) and KVOA (NBC) to conclude retransmission agreements to gain permission to carry their digital programming". Of course they will never reach agreement because Ray Depa (of KGUN) says "We are not going to give it away to the cable companies".

KGUN is owned by the Journal Broadcast Group. Journal also owns KTNV (the ABC affiliate in Las Vegas). Apparently Cox in Las Vegas and KTNV do not have the same stalemate that Cox in Tucson has with KGUN, because Cox subscribers in Las Vegas are able to receive the digital (HD) transmissions of KTNV.

KVOA is owned by Cordillera Communications. Cordillera also owns KATC in Lafayette, Louisiana. Again, Cox subscribers in Lafayette are able to receive the digital (HD) transmissions of KATC.

So it is clear that the failure of Cox to reach agreement with the local affiliates in Tucson is not a national problem. I think many of us are just tired of waiting, and once there are viable options (such as what is proposed for Sahuarita), we will leave Cox.

I'd pay Cox the extra 10 bucks and switch to satellite now. Why wait for Cox? I moved here in August and waited until January. I'm now recording all local HD OTA, and I use Sprint DSL. I don't know how you could have so much patience. Cox does not deserve our money. They are not providing the level of service this community deserves.

Our Friend in the Digital Age :)

P.S. Did I miss something, or is Fox also still not available?

You are correct, FOX is still missing. This is what Anne Doris says about KMSB:

"Cox Communications is also in discussion with KMSB. However, those
negotiations are being conducted by our corporate office as we are
discussing several markets simultaneously. We have a pre-existing
agreement in Phoenix."

Further proof that Tucson is not high on the Cox priority list.

Opnupurize,

Yes. Those are specs for the resolution of analog after it is encoded. That is the resolution that all the cards encode to. It has nothing to do with the ATSC signals.

Shimon Hirschhorn

Cool, I just checked and I'm getting KGUN HD on Cox today.

Edit: Yeah, I was bored, check the date. :rolleyes:

I just looked and I am not getting it.

I'm guessing...April Fools?

I'm guessing...April Fools?

Yeah, but the question is who's joke it was. Cox turned it on for April 1st, and then turned it off on the 2nd. :-)

Must mean they're close to striking a deal. It would be great news for those of you who have patiently waited for Cox to do the right thing. I'm set OTA with a 2 year contract with DirecTV. I'll wait 'til Jan '08 and see who has what at that time.

Hello All,

Just got my OTA working and not sure of the signal strength as my HDTV does not have a signal strength meter. Tonight once it gets dark and I can see the antennas on the mountain I will be able to point the antenna better. Channels 4, 6, and 11 are terrible. Channel 9 and 13 look great. I am using a Trek-32 antenna with a Radio Shack 10 db inline booster. I live about 12 miles from the antennas on the mountain or Harrison/Speedway.

Anybody have any advice to give?

Hello All,

Just got my OTA working and not sure of the signal strength as my HDTV does not have a signal strength meter. Tonight once it gets dark and I can see the antennas on the mountain I will be able to point the antenna better. Channels 4, 6, and 11 are terrible. Channel 9 and 13 look great. I am using a Trek-32 antenna with a Radio Shack 10 db inline booster. I live about 12 miles from the antennas on the mountain or Harrison/Speedway.

Anybody have any advice to give?

Are you trying to bring in the digital channels or the analog? Keep in mind the digital channels are all in the UHF band at 19, 25, 28, 30, 32, 35, 42 and 44. They will remap to a channel like 4.1 or 11.1 etc.

From where you are a silver senser with no booster should get everything with a strong signal. If you have too much gain it can cause big reception problems. Get rid of the booster and that should help. My son is at Golf Links and Harrison and he can get everyting with a small silver senser UHF indoor antenna sitting inside on the entertainment center and my daughter is near kolb and the freeway and she can get everything with the same non amplified indoor antenna. The direction should not be that critical. If you are tuning in the digital signal you will either get a perfect picture or no picture unlike analog where the quality of the picture will very depending on the signal strength.

DodgeViper

Looking at this site it doesn't look like your TV has a digital tuner. http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Philips-42FW9220-37.htm Digital tuner is listed as the magic letters ATSC when tv's have them.

And and Philips' site, the second model number you listed only has an NTSC (analog) tuner. So no, you're not getting and you probably can't get HD OTA with that TV unless you hook up an external OTA tuner. You can get them from Walmart for <$200 I believe. You'll need that whether or not you pick up the 8300HD from Cox or not if you want to view ABC, NBC, or FOX in HD.


As for using an ebay 8300HD, I don't know if Cox will allow it, but I'm betting they'd still want to charge the $10 DVR fee if they did. So I doubt there is anything to gain from buying one on ebay. This is speculation, but no less accurate than what one usually gets talking to a Cox CSR :) I mean :(

Oh, back to OTA STB's. You mentioned Ebay, I think I recall people selling old Voom boxes that can do OTA. There are gotchas that you'll want to research first, like that the box had to have been activated, and never deactivated or something like that. Good luck.

DodgeViper

Looking at this site it doesn't look like your TV has a digital tuner. http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Philips-42FW9220-37.htm Digital tuner is listed as the magic letters ATSC when tv's have them.

And and Philips' site, the second model number you listed only has an NTSC (analog) tuner. So no, you're not getting and you probably can't get HD OTA with that TV unless you hook up an external OTA tuner. You can get them from Walmart for <$200 I believe. You'll need that whether or not you pick up the 8300HD from Cox or not if you want to view ABC, NBC, or FOX in HD.


As for using an ebay 8300HD, I don't know if Cox will allow it, but I'm betting they'd still want to charge the $10 DVR fee if they did. So I doubt there is anything to gain from buying one on ebay. This is speculation, but no less accurate than what one usually gets talking to a Cox CSR :) I mean :(

Oh, back to OTA STB's. You mentioned Ebay, I think I recall people selling old Voom boxes that can do OTA. There are gotchas that you'll want to research first, like that the box had to have been activated, and never deactivated or something like that. Good luck.

Thanks, I went to Walmart wedsite and did not locate and OTA tuners...

Thanks, I went to Walmart wedsite and did not locate and OTA tuners...

Looks like they don't sell the one I was thinking of anymore. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2598451

Maybe they have something else at the stores, though the one near you is a crappy Walmart.

Circuit City has some HDTV Receivers on their website for a bit more than $200. I would imagine anyplace that sells HDTV will have something on the shelf, Sears, BB, CC... Oh, the new Target out there may have something.

You almost have to buy one, or go with Direct or Dish, because if you're waiting for Cox to get local HD, you'll be waiting a while :(

Thanks, I went to Walmart wedsite and did not locate and OTA tuners...

I'm not sure what you're looking to get or how soon you would want to go to cable for HD if COX ever gets the local HDs all on there, but I have 3 HDTV OTA tuners if you're interested in any of them.

One is a Samsung SIR-T151 which is a model from a few yrs ago, still works fine, doesn't have a channel display on the unit like the newer models, and I don't have a remote for it so you'd have to use a universal remote. I have a remote you could use to program from, would only ask $75 for that unit. I have a newer SIR-T165 which is the flagship tuner from Samsung and has pretty much everything, DVI output (as well as component), firewire to record HD to a hard drive recorder or D-VHS (I have one of these for sale also a JVC D-VHS VCR) and you can run a DVD player or VCR into the tuner and output them via the DVI or component. This is the one I have the remote for (that also works with the 151 tuner). This tuner would be $225, or you could have them both for $275 (if you wanted to record a program from one and watch another at the same time). I also have the JVC digital VCR HM-DH30000u you can use to record HD from the 165 tuner via firewire, and would ask $225 for the VCR if you were interested, and there are 7 D-VHS tapes I've used 10 - 15 times each for $25. I would throw in a firewire cable and DVI cable with the 165 and VCR.

Finally I have an Accurian HD tuner I picked up a few months back at Radioshack and it has a channel display, HDMI out as well as component, with remote and I would ask $150 for that tuner, it's only a few months old and I haven't even used it that much.

The reason I have all this for sale is I built a PC to record HD and have been using that to record everything and watch it back later, a homemade HD DVR so I don't need all of these other tuners and the D-VHS digital VCR anymore.

Let me know if you would be interested in any of these. I live near Bonanza and Speedway so you could come over to see the hardware if you wanted.

I'm not sure what you're looking to get or how soon you would want to go to cable for HD if COX ever gets the local HDs all on there, but I have 3 HDTV OTA tuners if you're interested in any of them.

One is a Samsung SIR-T151 which is a model from a few yrs ago, still works fine, doesn't have a channel display on the unit like the newer models, and I don't have a remote for it so you'd have to use a universal remote. I have a remote you could use to program from, would only ask $75 for that unit. I have a newer SIR-T165 which is the flagship tuner from Samsung and has pretty much everything, DVI output (as well as component), firewire to record HD to a hard drive recorder or D-VHS (I have one of these for sale also a JVC D-VHS VCR) and you can run a DVD player or VCR into the tuner and output them via the DVI or component. This is the one I have the remote for (that also works with the 151 tuner). This tuner would be $225, or you could have them both for $275 (if you wanted to record a program from one and watch another at the same time). I also have the JVC digital VCR HM-DH30000u you can use to record HD from the 165 tuner via firewire, and would ask $225 for the VCR if you were interested, and there are 7 D-VHS tapes I've used 10 - 15 times each for $25. I would throw in a firewire cable and DVI cable with the 165 and VCR.

Finally I have an Accurian HD tuner I picked up a few months back at Radioshack and it has a channel display, HDMI out as well as component, with remote and I would ask $150 for that tuner, it's only a few months old and I haven't even used it that much.

The reason I have all this for sale is I built a PC to record HD and have been using that to record everything and watch it back later, a homemade HD DVR so I don't need all of these other tuners and the D-VHS digital VCR anymore.

Let me know if you would be interested in any of these. I live near Bonanza and Speedway so you could come over to see the hardware if you wanted.

opnupurize,

Thanks for the offer. I have had Cox for years and had a 8300 DVR up until yeasterday when I exchanged it for a 8300 HD DVR. I am keeping my eye open for an activated old Zoom Motorola DSR-550 receiver that will give me my OTA channels. Also Circuit City has a OTA receiver that has HDMI out. I have been thinking of building a PC for my HD needs.

It was nice to see HD come to life last night and watch the championship NCAA game.

Hey guys,

I live off stone and grant and was wondering which Antenna would be best for picking up OTA HD. Just bought the samsung SIR-T451 and now i need an Antenna to go along with it. I looked on Antennaweb and I am about 19 miles away. Any suggestions? thanks

Hey guys,

I live off stone and grant and was wondering which Antenna would be best for picking up OTA HD. Just bought the samsung SIR-T451 and now i need an Antenna to go along with it. I looked on Antennaweb and I am about 19 miles away. Any suggestions? thanks
While I'm in Phoenix, I've got the Radio Shack 18-1880. Unfortunately a discontinued model. I'm 16.5 miles from South Mountain and have this sitting on top of my equipment rack. I'm getting everything available wthout any problem.....other than when the Grand Kids pull it off it's resting spot. :cool:

I ended up going with this model after reading the following:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/antin.htm
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/squareshot.htm

RS is great as you can take one home and bring it back if it doesn't work.

Also, I'd avoid any TERK antennas. I have one of their TV5's and you can have it if you want to pay shipping. In fact I'll be down in Tucson Friday for business if you want to meet, it's yours. Just doesn't pull in signals like the RS 15-1880.

Hey guys,

I live off stone and grant and was wondering which Antenna would be best for picking up OTA HD. Just bought the samsung SIR-T451 and now i need an Antenna to go along with it. I looked on Antennaweb and I am about 19 miles away. Any suggestions? thanks


You should be able to pick up most channels there with an outdoor or amplified indoor antenna. I used to live right in that same area and using an amplified Terk indoor I got most stations. I tried using a silver sensor but could not pick up much of anything without sticking it at very weird angles.

Just was reading in the paper that the contract Tucson has with Cox is going to expire in 2007. The city leaders seem to be more worried about local access channels than Cox's lack of service in the high definition area. It may be a good time to let them know how poor things are in this area and we are not getting all the local digital channels like Comcast gives thier customers.

Here is a link to that article: http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/metro/123901

Maybe we can convince the city to put the contract out for bids, and hope Comcast wants to take over! It is ridiculous for the council to demand the public access channels. They are a waste of space, and money. Money that would be better spent on HD content and especially the local networks. I'm going to email the City Council, too. So should we all!

Here is a link to that article: http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/metro/123901

It is ridiculous for the council to demand the public access channels. They are a waste of space, and money. Money that would be better spent on HD content and especially the local networks.

I would be very careful with that position as this council has a very strong far left liberal bias and they are very much in favor of the public access channels.

If they thought for one moment that getting more HD channels would cause them to have fewer public access channels they would fight the adding of more HD channels to the death!

I would be very careful with that position as this council has a very strong far left liberal bias and they are very much in favor of the public access channels.
If they thought for one moment that getting more HD channels would cause them to have fewer public access channels they would fight the adding of more HD channels to the death!

I fail to see the connection between your allegation that the council has "a very strong liberal bias" and their desire the provide public access channels. Maybe you can elaborate a bit on this.

I also think that the public access channels issue is not in any way connected with the difficulties Cox is having reaching agreement with the local network affiliate stations to add the digital broadcasts. Cox (Anne Doris) has made it clear that Cox is unwilling to pay for the digital broadcasts, and some of the stations have made it clear that they will not let Cox have the digital broadcasts unless they pay. So whether or not public access is maintained or not does not seem to be a factor.

Finally, for those of you who do live in Tucson, I don't see how it could hurt to contact your council members and tell them that you are aware that Comcast is offering all the digital broadcasts while Cox is only offering about half of them.

If you had read the link that was in the post I was quoting I think you would then understand why it would not be very smart to take the position when cotacting council members of "It is ridiculous for the council to demand the public access channels. They are a waste of space, and money. Money that would be better spent on HD content " considering the position the council has clearly stated in the article.

Read the article in the link that was originally included, Here is a link to that article: http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/metro/123901

I did read the article in this mornings paper. It is clear that you see no value in the public access channels. There is an audience who finds value in them, however. I do not see the issue being an either/or situation (public access or digital content, but not both). Informing the council that Comcast offers all the digital content of the local network affiliates (and that Cox does not) has nothing to do with the public access issue. This could possibly help motivate them to request a proposal from Comcast.

On the other hand, if you tell the council members that public access is worthless and that you want all the digital broadcasts on Cox, that would probably not be productive.

This was posted on another TV related site I belong to, SatelliteGuys.us:

The following message was on my most recent cable bill (we have basic cable so that we can have broadband Internet access):
"We are aware that all satellite providers must drop the local Tucson Channels. Our Cable TV regulations are different. We will continue to carry the local Tucson channels. We hope you enjoy the continued service of your local Tucson channels!"

Anyone know anything about this? Is it true? Is it nationwide, or only in Tucson, or only in Arizona?

The poster doesn't specify if it were Cox or Comast billing on which he saw the statement, but I wonder if anyone else here saw the message on their cable bill? Sounds pretty much bogus to me; I'm not aware of any single authority that can mandate all satellite TV companies must stop carrying all local stations in a market.

I get Tucson locals on my Dish Network service, but only watch them when I have reception problems with the OTA digital broadcasts. For now, Dish only carries the analog SD feeds for Tucson locals converted to mpeg2 which results in worse video quality than analog OTA.

I did read the article in this mornings paper. It is clear that you see no value in the public access channels. There is an audience who finds value in them, however.

That was not my statement. If you will look back to the post I made originally I was quoting something from another post just before mine that had said that. That is why I had put the quotation marks around the statement which means I'm quoting from someone else.

All I was saying was, in my opinion, that was not a very productive stand to take when contacting the council on public access channels considering the position the city council has put forward in the article.

I have Kworld ATSC-110 cards and an ATI HDTV wonder and they both work fine (there was an issue with the Kworld card and Standby/Hibernation but a driver update fixed that issue). Have you decided on what software you're going to use or do you have XP MCE 2005? What are your PC specs and what video card do you have?

Sorry for the long delay in reply... out on business. Got all my parts and have been putting it together. I went ahead and decided to gamble with the Avermedia A180's. I got an Asus A85NX mobo, NVIDIA 6600GT video card (and put an Arctic Cooling fan on it), AMD Athlon 64 3000+ CPU (w/ a Zalman cooler), 1GB Geil PC3200 memory and a Hauppage PVR150 analog tuner.

I got 2 x 250GB SATA drives (RAID 0) that I'll do my recording on a 3rd 80 GB drive that holds the OS. I have a Microsoft subscription, so I already had Media Center 2005, so that's what I'll be using. I'm a little worried about the HD cards, but they just came out with some new drivers, so I'll put those on. So far I've only done the drives, video card and motherboard and installed the OS. It all seems stable, now to install the Tunder cards. Hopefully it all works!

Scotty it sounds great but just a word of caution about fitting the Arctic Cooling heatsink. On my BFG 6600GT video card I found that the memory chips were slightly lower than the GPU - no direct contact - so I purchased some thermal pads online and used these on each ram chip. When I recently upgraded to a 7800GT I replaced the AC with a Zalman cooler which uses seperate heatsinks for each ram chip. I prefer this since there is no risk of heat transfer from the GPU cooler to them. By the way I used OCZ copper heatsinks since Zalman supplied some very lightweight aluminum ones! Please let us know how you get on with recording and quality etc. Good luck.

From azdiamondbacks.com:

04/12/2006 11:25 PM ET
Diamondbacks broadcast first ever over-the-air game in Phoenix in High Definition

Team set to air 34 games in HD on KTVK

PHOENIX --The Arizona Diamondbacks will become the first sports team in Arizona to broadcast over-the-air telecasts in high definition. The team is set to air the remaining 34 home games on KTVK (3-TV) in HDTV, starting with tomorrow night's 6:40 p.m. game versus the Rockies.

"High definition allows us to showcase our team and ballpark in a new and dynamic way," said Diamondbacks President Rich Dozer. "We are thrilled to be one of the first in baseball to partner with our over-the-air rightsholder to enhance the telecast for our fans."

The pre-game show, "Diamondbacks on Deck," which runs 30 minutes before every 3-TV Saturday and Sunday game, will also be shown in HDTV during home weekend games.

Fans in Southern Arizona will also be able to experience D-Backs games in high definition through the team's Tucson affiliate, KWBA, who will also broadcast all remaining over-the-air home games. In addition, FSN Arizona, the team's cable rightsholder, will air their 16 Friday night telecasts in HDTV.

Link to article:

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060412&content_id=1397600&vkey=pr_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari

Link to KWBA website:

http://kwba.com/WB/diamondbacks.html

Soundmaster10.2,

Hey, it just dawned on me, you are Carter on the "Arizona HDTV Forums", right? What are you doing on the Tucson forum, are you able to receive Tucson locals via OTA, just curious?

Best regards,

Rich

From azdiamondbacks.com:


The pre-game show, "Diamondbacks on Deck," which runs 30 minutes before every 3-TV Saturday and Sunday game, will also be shown in HDTV during home weekend games.

Fans in Southern Arizona will also be able to experience D-Backs games in high definition through the team's Tucson affiliate, KWBA, who will also broadcast all remaining over-the-air home games.

Of course, fans in Southern Arizona aren't getting the game in HD tonight. Guess I'll switch to Giants/Dodgers...:(

Well after much indecision 'at home' we are selling the Dish 721 PVR on eBay and switching over to Comcast. (I never thought I would say this!) Hopefully they will let us have a Motorolla DCT6416 or 6430 which I believe are the latest models.
The question I need help on is about signal strength for HDTV. Although our house is less than ten years old the TV cabling outside and inside is a mess! Is there any point in taking coax from the main cable box at the side of the road direct to where the Motorola will be situated? I would ask Comcast to do this and hopefully they will not charge. Or is it a question of it either works or it doesn't and strength of signal does not influence HDTV quality? Many thanks for any advice. By the way I cannot consider OTA as an option as we live near Kinney Rd behind a mountain.

And the score for KWBA SD 2 HD 0

Here's what I got in response to a query about HD games:

My sincere apologies for misleading you.

When we discussed the upcoming season with the Diamondbacks in February,
we asked that they consider broadcasting in HD as our station was able to
deliver it right away. They promised to work on that possibility and just
before the season began, assured us that they would be ready to deliver in
HD by the home opener. They were not. In fact, they are still ironing out
their difficulties.

I t was premature for us to put the announcement (about HD) on our website
and it has been amended now to read "coming soon." We will certainly
broadcast those games in HD just as soon as the Diamondbacks can make the
arrangements.

Thank you for watching, thank you for understanding, and enjoy the season!

-Joan

Guess I can't complain about this. It would be much worse to have constant breakups with an HD broadcast that isn't fully ready. I'm glad to see the expanded schedule for this season and I'm really looking forward to more HD baseball. Once on Sundays is just not enough.

What a game last night....

I picked up a used Zoom Motorola 550 activated receiver today that I plan to use to receive local OTA channels. The receiver was in use up until the Zoom signal went dead. The receiver received the latest updates that will allow me to acccess the menu's and search for the local channels. Should have it up and working sometime today. I plan to use an outdoor Trek-32 antenna of which I am located about 12 miles from the Mt. I have a clear line of sight and should get a good strong signal. It's my understanding the 550 has a signal strength meter built in...

DodgeViper I noticed that there are quite a few auctions on eBay for 'non activated' Voom receivers. Is it true these are worthless as they can no longer be activated? Paperweights! I suppose it may be possible to somehow copy the firmware update from an activated receiver and then transfer it.

Do you think the people who manage KOLD ever watch their HD channel? The audio and video quality is worse than bad. The constant breakups have driven me several times to switch over to the analog channel. Watching them certainly doesn't make me think we in the 33rd ranked market, more like 133rd.

Dave

Do you think the people who manage KOLD ever watch their HD channel? The audio and video quality is worse than bad. The constant breakups have driven me several times to switch over to the analog channel. Watching them certainly doesn't make me think we in the 33rd ranked market, more like 133rd.

Dave

I could be wrong, but I think Tucson is the 70th ranked market..

I don't tend to have problems with KOLD. Seems to be a problem with sports during the news. During that 10 minutes, it's as if the signal has dropped to unacceptable levels. Once out of sports, everything is fine.

Do you think the people who manage KOLD ever watch their HD channel? The audio and video quality is worse than bad. The constant breakups have driven me several times to switch over to the analog channel. Watching them certainly doesn't make me think we in the 33rd ranked market, more like 133rd.

Dave

KOLD has the worst DTV signal has now for the past couple of years, we're lucky it's actually working as much as it does, it was out for weeks at a time early last year, before that the sound would echo during HD NFL games, it was atrocious, not to mention every time it rained the signal would be lost. I kept asking them why KVOA, KGUN, KMSB, KUAT, and even KWBA now can have practically no problems with their broadcasts but KOLD is such a red-headed step child. They just kept sending me back replies saying they are working to provide the best quality DTV broadcast they can, and eventually stopped replying all together to questions about HD programs that weren't in HD (like Two and a half Men last week) or sound problems which they've never resolved. Anyways, don't expect any improvements anytime soon, just be happy that we have a signal at all.

I could be wrong, but I think Tucson is the 70th ranked market..

71.

Tucson is the 30th largest city in the US (2000 Census), but the 71st largest DMA as rated by Neilson. And it's the DMA rankings that matter for TV. And Tucson is listed as the 58th largest metropolitan area on the 2000 Census.

Aren't numbers fun.

See these links for more info:

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html
http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t5/tab02.txt
http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab03.txt

I am giving up on COX. I currently have the package deal of my phone, high speed internet, and cable. I have one HD DVR with the three remaining TV’s wired direct. I do not receive any premium channels from COX. My latest bill arrived that included one movie rental of $3.95 bringing the total of the monthly bill to nearly $140.00 dollars.

I have looked at DishNet at having their 4 room system installed with one HD DVR in the family room with the remaining receivers for the bedrooms, but here is my dilemma.

I will need to return to Quest for phone and either DSL or just go with Quest phone and back to a dialup of which I do not like.

As I stated before I just have the expanded package from Cox so this gives you an idea of my viewing habits. HD channels are important to me and I know DishNet nearly doubles COX. Our family likes, QVC, USA, ESPN, FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, DISCOVERY, MTV, NASH, CNN, CNBC, USB, TNT, HGTV, ETC. Basically the channels from 2 through 70 on the COX system. The audio music channels in the upper channels on COX are never used.

Any suggestions from my fellow Tucson desert dwellers?

Can't you stay with COX for phone and internet? I know you don't get the package options. But at least here in Phoenix, Qwest is really crap.

Maybe go back to Qwest for phone, or look at going with just a mobile phone. Many folks don't even have a land line any more. But you better check Qwest's DSL service to your area. I'm in a 2 year old subdivision in Chandler and Qwest does not provide DSL service here. Maybe Tucson is different but Qwest is not investing in any infrastructure and only installing repeaters for voice grade service.

Cox Internet and Telephone service are great! My monthly Cox bill for both runs about $67.

I use DirecTV for television, and am fairly happy with it. That's another $65 including HD and Tivo.

In checking I can get COX Internet for 39.95 plus the hidden charges if there are any. After doing a google seach I can have local phone through the interent through a company called, Opex Communications.

$14.99 gives me, unlimited local calls, Voicemail, Call Waiting, Caller ID, Caller ID Block, Call Transfer & 3-Way Conference Calling.

$24.99 gives me, unlimited local calls, in-state calls, out-of-state calls, and unlimited calls to Canada, plus all of the included features listed below.

$59.99 Dish Network, 1 HD DVR plus either 2 or 3 receivers with the Silver package of 23 HD channels and 120 other digital channels. I do not have a clue of additional charges with Dish Net.

Anybody have Dish Network that can answer this question. Using the HD DVR that DN provides how many channels can you record at the same time? Currently I can record two or record two and watch one recorded show.

In looking at the pricing I can get ahead on the pricing of the tune of about $24.00 without the hidden charges, but I know there are hidden charges of taxes.

Although I would get digtial TV in all rooms and have more HD channels I would not be saving much over COX, but I hate everything COX is about as they are not for the consumer...

I had Dish about 4 or 5 years ago. When I had it, there were no hidden charges. The $39.99 bill was what I payed every month. For Cox Internet I don't think there are any extra charges, as Internet access isn't taxed at this point. Personally, it didn't like the digital artifacting that I would get on the Dish network when I had it.

Make sure you go and watch various channels somewhere on the services and see how you like it. Try to find something with dark or smokey scenes, as those were the worst when I had the service.

Good luck.

Oh, does Cox still charge extra for Internet access if you don't have phone or cable also?

Dodge,

Also remember your HD locals will have to be OTA. Neither Dish nor DTV supply Tucson with HD locals. Make sure any HD receiver/DVR you get has OTA capability and check on the number of tuners available.

I can only speak for DTV. I have one of their HR10-250s which has dual DTV SAT tuners and dual OTA tuners. Of that I can use a total of two of those tuners at any one time. Record 2 SAT programs, 1 SAT and 1 OTA or 2 OTA. Still being able to watch a recorded show.

Not posted yet, but there have been a couple of D-Backs games in HD on KWBA. Great picture. Added bonus, D* had a FSAZ game on channel 95. HD baseball is very enjoyable.

Yep G I watched last Thursday nights game vs the Giants in HD via COX Cable. PQ was not bad for local HD. BTW nice bonus for the D* gang with the FSAZ game.

Geez, I thought the Tucson forum had disappeared! No post since lat April? I guess that means that everyone is happy . . . . or completely given up on Cox in disgust? :rolleyes:

But, there actually is a purpose to this post: Did any of you Tucson folks with OTA digital UHF have any reception issues last evening? I didn't get home until after 8 last evening and all digital stations were out for me out here in Cochise County. I thought the winds must have blown my antenna off alignment. But, this afternoon I checked and my antenna is still aiming in the right direction and all the digital stations are all back to normal strength.

You're right. Those with OTA reception are happy and those with Cox have given up. I had no issues here in town last night.

I have given up on Cox ever adding to their HD lineup. I almost don't care any longer as we will be moving out of Arizona this fall.

also on the cox topic I saw this from dslreports:

"Cox to Offer Tivo DVRs?
Survey question suggests possible deal
Posted on 2006-05-05 18:35:21
A survey being circulated by Cox indicates the company may be mulling a partnership with Tivo, according to forum discussion here and at the Tivo Community forums. One of the questions in the on-line survey reads:

"As you may or may not know, Cox offers DVR service. The DVR is built into the Cox digital receiver box and is operated using a Cox digital service remote control. While Cox currently offers its own DVR service, the Cox DVR may soon be powered by TiVo, and include the features that TiVo owners have come to expect. If Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?"

A year ago at this time, it seemed like Tivo was close to death. In the past year however, they've somewhat salvaged their relationship with DirecTV, and are reaching out to cable operators."

Is the listing of HD channels on Comcast on the first page of this thread still accurate ? I saw that it was edited in 2006.

I cannot get CBS at 88.3 or Fox at 88.6, which are listed. Should I call Comcast and complain or have they moved to a different channel ?

I also DO get TNT in HD at 126.1 which is not listed. Jim

Anyone see this WSJ article? (Anyone see <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114686188862345238.html?mod=googlenews_wsj">this?<a>)

It shows offerings from cable companies around the US. Interestingly they show Phoenix as not offering much. They ding 'em for being the only big city without VOD. If only that were the complaints we had for Tucson Cox offerings.

Anyone see this WSJ article? (Anyone see <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114686188862345238.html?mod=googlenews_wsj">this?<a>)

It shows offerings from cable companies around the US. Interestingly they show Phoenix as not offering much. They ding 'em for being the only big city without VOD. If only that were the complaints we had for Tucson Cox offerings.

My mother-in-law got Comcast HD and my wife saw her VOD and has been bitching for the past week about Cox not having that.

My mother-in-law got Comcast HD and my wife saw her VOD and has been bitching for the past week about Cox not having that.

Being a Cox subscriber, I would be more apt to complain about all the HD (namely locals) channels that we are missing out on compared with Comcast. Hard to complain about no VOD when we do not even get Fox in HD.

Is the listing of HD channels on Comcast on the first page of this thread still accurate ? I saw that it was edited in 2006.

I cannot get CBS at 88.3 or Fox at 88.6, which are listed. Should I call Comcast and complain or have they moved to a different channel ?

I also DO get TNT in HD at 126.1 which is not listed. Jim

I have found that on my Samsung and my Sony QAM tuners that some of the cable QAM channel numbers show different numbers for the same channel on the two TV's. I get the TNT channel on the Sony but it does not come in on the Samsung. I think it is the individual tuner and how they handle the channel information they receive and has nothing to do with Comcast.

No FOX, yet you forget to mention ABC and NBC. How horrible Cox is regarding services in Tucson. All is not lost yet though. When the analog shutdown occurs, Cox may be forced to act. Meanwhile, no satellite provider has shown up as pending so, sans OTA, Tucson is SOL. I wish something could be said or done, but there simply isn't enough of an outcry from the citizens to make a difference.

Just purchased a new Samsung SIR-451 HD Receiver. My first impression is the remote is JUNK. I am using a Terk-32 UHF antenna and I live about 13 miles directly south of the broadcast antennas, the signal strength is outstanding on all channels. The HD channels I receive, 4.1 – 9.1 – 11.1 – 13.1 – 18.1. The SD channels I receive are 4.2 – 6.1 – 6.2 – 6.3 – 6.4 – 13.3. The PBS 6.1 may be HD but it’s only broadcast in SD currently.

The receiver gives me three options of Pillar Box, Full, and Zoom. All the HD channels are set to Full with no option to Zoom as this function on the receiver is not highlighted, but the picture is not using the full screen of my plasma on any of the HD channels. There are 3 inch black/gray bars on either side of the image while viewing HD content. All the SD channels fill my entire screen using Full and the Zoom function is highlighted as an option.

When I first set up the receiver I had the switch on the back set to 720P and now have it set at 1080i of which helped fill the plasma screen.

It appears to me that all HD content is slightly off center on my plasma screen. The receiver has the ability to move the image all four directions of which I have moved the image as far to the left as I can but it’s still not exactly centered.

There were additional channels that the receiver locked onto but channels I would not watch. The picture quality looks great even on the SD channels compared to the SD channels of Cox. I am very pleased in the receiver and more please with the new Harmony 550 remote that arrived yesterday along with the receiver. The remote took some time to get everything to work as a unit due to the plasma having a 10 second delay before an image was present once the plasma booted. Now that the inputs have a 11 second delay everything switches correctly.

Dodge,

PBS HD is on 27-1 these days. 6-1 is always a simulcast of the 6 analog channel. They used to do different things at different times of day, but now 6-1 is always analog 6.

As for the black bars on the sides of the image on the HD channels, have you had a chance to watch actual HD programming yet on those HD channels? SD programming on an HD channel is usually pillarboxed in the signal. I would suggest setting the the receivers output to whatever is closer to the native resolution of the TV.

Good luck getting it all figured out.

No FOX, yet you forget to mention ABC and NBC. I wish something could be said or done, but there simply isn't enough of an outcry from the citizens to make a difference.

I did not forget to mention ABC & NBC, I just don't watch anything on those channels. However, NFL games will likely change that. Outside of 24, Family Guy, and American Dad, I don't watch anything on Fox either. I just prefer to get my money's worth...

We could scream and yell all we want. Nothing but dwindling subscriptions will change their thinking. I considered going OTA but like so many of us, I am a HD whore who cannot be expected to watch NBA playoffs, Entourage, or SportsCenter in SD. Perhaps I am as much to blame as Cox.

Qwest Phone/DSL and HD Tivo from DirecTV. I won't use Cox for anything until they provide us with basic HD programming.

Picked up my daughter and one of her friend's houses last night. The man of the house has a 60" Plasma connected to a SD DirecTivo. Said he didn't need HD. Go figure? $5000.00 for a TV set and he saves himself a couple hundered with an SD Tivo. Most folks simply don't care.

Sounds like a plan since that D* HD Tivo could be a boat anchor when they switch to mpeg-4. Not all are privileged to lead the life of the constant upgrader :)

I get all locals OTA. I'm not at all impressed with the Voom on Dish. It'll be years before the Tivo will become an anchor. BTW, I got it for 299. Well worth it to me.

Anyone seen this Terrestrial HD Tuner (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/products_id/373) ?

This cat's eye box could be a viable option for a HTPC. USB 2.0 powered, may or may not need a signal booster. Any thoughts? Could be worth the effort for @ $100.

There's a bunch of threads on this forum about that, here's just one, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=646645&highlight=VBOX+Cat+s+Eye

HTH,

Rich

Thanks sytyguy, guess I should have done a search initially...

Just purchased a new Samsung SIR-451 HD Receiver.

Hope you didn't pay much more than $200, you could have had my SIR-T165 for that.

You're missing 27-1 KUAS PBS HD and 58-1 KWBA (WB) which also has HD. I think those come from other directions besides Bigelow so you might need another antenna pointed the opposite direction to get them. If you rotate the antenna you have you might be able to get them all at the same time.

Picked up my daughter and one of her friend's houses last night. The man of the house has a 60" Plasma connected to a SD DirecTivo. Said he didn't need HD. Go figure? $5000.00 for a TV set and he saves himself a couple hundered with an SD Tivo. Most folks simply don't care.

$5000 for a 60" Plasma? more like $7500 now and $10000 a year ago (I know someone who paid 10K for a 61" Pioneer a year ago), and he doesn't have HD???!!!

I guess it depends on what you watch, but if any of it is javailable in HD and he obviously has the disposable income, it seems like a no brainer. I wonder if he just doesn't know any better, and if he was informed more or shown how to get/use Tivo HD or DirectTV/Dish HD if he would get it. Such a waste otherwise.

Hope you didn't pay much more than $200, you could have had my SIR-T165 for that.

You're missing 27-1 KUAS PBS HD and 58-1 KWBA (WB) which also has HD. I think those come from other directions besides Bigelow so you might need another antenna pointed the opposite direction to get them. If you rotate the antenna you have you might be able to get them all at the same time.

The Samsung SIR-451 set me back $125.00 plus $15.00 for shipping. The receiver is "NEW" and not a refurbished unit. So I think I got a assume deal if your wanting $200.00 for a used SIR-T165...

The Samsung SIR-451 set me back $125.00 plus $15.00 for shipping. The receiver is "NEW" and not a refurbished unit. So I think I got a assume deal if your wanting $200.00 for a used SIR-T165...

Damn dude, that is a HOT DEAL! Where it was purchased? I could not find it any cheaper than 2 bills either.

Sure it wasn't the SIR-T351?

. Perhaps I am as much to blame as Cox.

You're not.

The Samsung SIR-451 set me back $125.00 plus $15.00 for shipping. The receiver is "NEW" and not a refurbished unit. So I think I got a assume deal if your wanting $200.00 for a used SIR-T165...

That is a good deal especially for a New unit. The 165 has capabilities the 451 doesn't, but if you don't need them then the 451 should be just fine and was cheaper.

Damn dude, that is a HOT DEAL! Where it was purchased? I could not find it any cheaper than 2 bills either.

Sure it wasn't the SIR-T351?

that "NEW" receiver really is a "HOT" deal I bet lol

Damn dude, that is a HOT DEAL! Where it was purchased? I could not find it any cheaper than 2 bills either.

Sure it wasn't the SIR-T351?

I got it of off Ebay last week. The guy had 6 receivers. I emailed the guy and he has sold all of the receivers and will not have anymore. The box arrived sealed and all accessories were sealed. Yes it was a SIR-451...

that "NEW" receiver really is a "HOT" deal I bet lol

I understand what you’re saying. I ask the same question. I was told by the seller that he bids at auctions on unclaimed shipyard containers. When he buys he has no clue what is inside the containers until he purchases the container… Locally I have bid on storage lockers here in Tucson and have made out like a bandit. I was the high bidder on a locker a few weeks ago and for $500.00. I got a nearly new 5000 watt Yamaha electric start generator, signed lithograph artwork of 25 Hockey player 500 goal club that has a value of $1500-$2000.00 and matching set of Kenmore washer/dryer that are boxed and look new and a bunch of misc. stuff.

I have a question from those in Tucson and receiving OTA channels. I have the Samsung SIR-451 receiver using a Terk 32 antenna. Signal strength is great with the exception of 27.1 and 58.1 of which I read above I may need another antenna pointing in another direction.

I am using a Philips Plasma of which is rated at 720P. I have the Samsung receiver set at 720P using the HDMI out. While watching a program that is HD the image does not fill the entire plasma screen. The image is about 1 inch from either side of using the entire screen, but when I switch the receiver over to 1080i the image will fill the entire screen on the plasma. The receiver has options of P-Box, Full, and Zoom. Zoom is locked out with no option to use it. Using Full brings the image to within 1 inch as stated above.

What I want to know is it ok to use Samsung receiver at 1080i even though the plasma is rated at 720P?

Yes, your plasma will downconvert the signal to it's own native resolution.

Yes, your plasma will downconvert the signal to it's own native resolution.


Thanks for the reply...

You're missing 27-1 KUAS PBS HD and 58-1 KWBA (WB) which also has HD. I think those come from other directions besides Bigelow so you might need another antenna pointed the opposite direction to get them.

It may depend where you live. I live in the Sabino Canyon area and have a DB2 antenna pointed at Bigelow and pick up 58-1 just fine for the home D-Back games in HD.

-- Scott

Did any of you Tucson folks with OTA digital UHF have any reception issues last evening? I didn't get home until after 8 last evening and all digital stations were out for me out here in Cochise County. I thought the winds must have blown my antenna off alignment. But, this afternoon I checked and my antenna is still aiming in the right direction and all the digital stations are all back to normal strength.

I'm not usually in the habit of quoting myself :rolleyes: , but can solar flares / storms really affect OTA TV reccption that much. I was talking to a friend who's kind of into that stuff and he looked up the date - May 6 - and said yes, there was an elevated level of solar x-rays that nite. He said I could expect it again on May 9, and sure enough, no reception again that night. Been fine since. Solar rays probably don't affect reception that much in town, but at 50+ miles out in Cochise, OTA reception can be pretty touchy.

Also, really off-topic for Tucson Local HDTV Info thread, but I'll give it a try & hope I don't get spanked:
The begining of summer re-runs, 3 months to football, and I don't like baseball. What's an HD fanatic to do? Well, I broke down & bought a Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player. I'm really pleased - HD DVD's are the best display I've ever seen on my 1080i Sony RP 57" HDTV. Upconversion of standard DVD's easily surpasses my Denon 1910. I'm set until football season rolls around! :)

I'm not usually in the habit of quoting myself :rolleyes: , but can solar flares / storms really affect OTA TV reccption that much. I was talking to a friend who's kind of into that stuff and he looked up the date - May 6 - and said yes, there was an elevated level of solar x-rays that nite. He said I could expect it again on May 9, and sure enough, no reception again that night. Been fine since. Solar rays probably don't affect reception that much in town, but at 50+ miles out in Cochise, OTA reception can be pretty touchy.

Also, really off-topic for Tucson Local HDTV Info thread, but I'll give it a try & hope I don't get spanked:
The begining of summer re-runs, 3 months to football, and I don't like baseball. What's an HD fanatic to do? Well, I broke down & bought a Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player. I'm really pleased - HD DVD's are the best display I've ever seen on my 1080i Sony RP 57" HDTV. Upconversion of standard DVD's easily surpasses my Denon 1910. I'm set until football season rolls around! :)

All a man needs are two sports, Football and NASCAR, and he has Sundays booked year round. My wife hates it. Anyway, what titles did you pick up in HD-DVD format and do you have their DVD counterparts?

Too bad about the solar flares. I don't think there is much you can do to stop those :)

All a man needs are two sports, Football and NASCAR, and he has Sundays booked year round. My wife hates it. Anyway, what titles did you pick up in HD-DVD format and do you have their DVD counterparts?

Too bad about the solar flares. I don't think there is much you can do to stop those :)

Darn! I was hoping someone was going to suggest plans that I could use to build a really big Blu Death Ray gun & blast those solar fares back out into space. :p
Oh well, at least I can make some use of the Dish Network HD service & flip over to Tucson locals on satellite when the solar activity weaks havoc on my OTA reception. Although E* SD is almost painful to watch; reminds me of VHS, a 2nd generation VHS tape. I watch so little SD on E* I considered canceling, but Mon.Nite Football is moving to ESPn this fall, and ESPN HD is pretty good, even on E*. A second sport? Soccer, Rugby or Austrailian Rules Football in HD would do it for me.

HD DVD's I've purchased: Apollo 13, Phantom of the Opera; Unforgiven, Bourne Supremcy, Serenity, Chronicles of Riddick, U-571, & Goodfellas. Blazing Saddles is on it's way from Amazon. From Netflix I've watched Full Metal Jacket, Last Samurai, Jarhead, Doom, Swordfish & Van Helsing. Bourne was the only one I owned on DVD.
My favorites so far: Serenity, Riddick, Van Helsing. As with DVD's, I usually rent ones I don't think I will enjoy enough to want to own & watch again. I just watched Van Helsing last night & it surprised me. Very entertaining; It rocks! I'll probably pick up a copy if I find it for a 'happy' price. ;)

Damn dude, that is a HOT DEAL! Where it was purchased? I could not find it any cheaper than 2 bills either.

If anyone wants to get a 451 here are some deals, or you can have my 165 for $200.

Samsung SIR-T451 High Definition TV Tuner $139.99,

Datavision has the refurbished Samsung SIR-T451 High Definition TV Tuner for a low $139.99. $16 shipping. Tax in NY.

Onecall has new ones for $179.98, $19.73 3 day shipping.

If anyone wants to get a 451 here are some deals, or you can have my 165 for $200.

Samsung SIR-T451 High Definition TV Tuner $139.99,

Datavision has the refurbished Samsung SIR-T451 High Definition TV Tuner for a low $139.99. $16 shipping. Tax in NY.

Onecall has new ones for $179.98, $19.73 3 day shipping.

Currently Datavision is selling the factory renewed for $131.00 on ebay... $23.00 ship. But there are others that may go much cheaper...

are they available in the area west of I-10 & Tangerine Road in Marana...specifically in Gladden Farms? (potential new home purchase in that area)

Most folks on that side of town are unable to pick up the signal. Plug your potential address into www.antennaweb.org to get an idea.

Most folks on that side of town are unable to pick up the signal. Plug your potential address into www.antennaweb.org to get an idea.

I don't think antennaweb worries about topography, so it won't tell you if a mountain is in the way. I could be wrong though

I've got an uncle who lives in that part of town. Plugged in his address and it shows a moderate signal for WB and PBS and no signal for any of the other digital channels. Sounds like the same results most folks report here.

BTW...Comcast serves that area and does give you the big 4 plus WB in HD.

Anyone see this story linked from HD Beat (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/05/31/nab-speaks-out-against-downconverting/) 05/31/06?

It has to do with cable companies carrying HD broadcasts and keeping the cable cos. from charging the local affiliates to carry their HD cast. Something that should interest any Cox subscriber in Tucson.

[Link fixed - thanks gworkman].

Link doesn't appear to be the story you're trying to point to. This story has to do with legistlation to allow cable companies to down-rez HD signals for analog broadcasts.

are they available in the area west of I-10 & Tangerine Road in Marana...specifically in Gladden Farms? (potential new home purchase in that area)

I live in the area near Cortaro Road and Silverbell. I originally lived just North of Cortaro Road and got most of the Digital stations off Mt. Bigelow with a inside antenna. I then moved about two blocks farther South and I cannot get any of the stations on Mt. Bigelow on my inside antenna nor my high quality roof top antenna that has an unobstructed view of Mt. Lemon. I guess what I'm saying is thereis no way to know if any location is going to work untill you try it. Sometimes you can move an antenna 1' left, right or up or down and loose the signal completely.

Here is some info on digital OTA locals reception in the area of Silverbell and Wade. I successfully receive all locals (4,6,9,11,13,18,27,40,46,58) with a roof mounted antenna that has an un-obstructed view of the Catalinas. Equip is as follows:
Chan Master 9228 antenna
Chan Master 7777 preamp-not sure if I need this but have never tried without it.
Antenna rotator
Dish Network VIP622 receiver. Previous Dish 921 receiver would not tune in ch13 so I believe the 622 has a better OTA tuner.
Digital reception is possible in this area so don't give up without trying.

Here is some info on digital OTA locals reception in the area of Silverbell and Wade. I successfully receive all locals (4,6,9,11,13,18,27,40,46,58) with a roof mounted antenna that has an un-obstructed view of the Catalinas.

Are you referring to the analog channels instead of the digital. Is the channel 27 you have listed above the PBS HD channel from Tumamoc hill near downtown or the repeater tower for the channel 27 analog version of channel 6?

The PBS broadcast from bigelow comes in as a multicast on digital channel 30 and normally remaps to display as 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, etc. The channel numbers you have listed are the NTSC analog numbers. The digital channels in the Tucson area all fall in the UHF band above channel 13 as follows.

The actual digital channel of all the stations that broadcast from Mt. Bigelow are as follows and the last numbers on each line is the digital channel number and the first number is the remapped or virtual number that usually is displayed on the tuner:

KVOA-DT NBC 4.1 (23)

KUAT-DT PBS 6.1 (30)
KUAT-DT2 PBS 6.2 (30)
KUAT-DT3 PBS 6.3 (30)
KUAT-DT4 PBS 6.4 (30)

KGUNDT1 ABC 9.1 (35)

KMSB-DT FOX 11.1 (25)

KOLD-DT CBS 13.1 (32)
KOLDDT2 CBS 13.3 (32)

KTTU-DT UPN 18.1 (19)

I really am interested to know if you are really getting the digital HD channels from bigelow. If you get them all you are very lucky because in the Northwest area I have never found anyone that gets them all and most cannot get any. I have friends that work at Comcasts and channel 13 studios that are both very near to us but even with their towers at the studios they cannot receive any signals off of Mt. Bigelow reliably. Channel 13 the last I heard can only pick up their analog signal and cannot get their own digital signal.

I live in Sun City Vistoso near Rancho Vistoso Blvd and Sun City Blvd on the north side of Oro Valley. I have a clear LOS to the top of Mt Lemmon, but not to Mt Bigelow. I also have a clear LOS to Tumamoc Hill.
I have a 5 element yagi antenna pointed towards Mt Bigelow to receive only HD signals. My receiver is an Echostar Dish 622.

I have consistently good signals from:
KGUN-DT 9.1 (35) signal strength 65 from Mt Bigelow
KMSB-DT 11.1 (25) signal strength 67 from Mt Bigelow
KTTU-DT 18.1 (19) signal strength 69 from Mt Bigelow
KUAS-DT 27.1 (28) signal strength 70 from Tumamoc Hill, received on side of yagi
KHRR-DT 40.1 (41) signal strength 60 from Tumamoc Hill, received on side of yagi

I have frequently good signals from:
KUAT-DT1 6.1 (30) signal strength 60 from Mt Bigelow
KUAT-DT2 6.2 (30) signal strength 60 from Mt Bigelow
KUAT-DT3 6.3 (30) signal strength 60 from Mt Bigelow
KUAT-DT4 6.4 (30) signal strength 60 from Mt Bigelow

I have a rare signal from:
KVOA-H 4.1 (23) signal strength 58 pixelling from Mt Bigelow
KVOA-S 4.2 (23) signal strength 58 pixelling from Mt Bigelow

I have no signals from:
KOLD-DT1 13.1 (32) no reception from Mt Bigelow
KOLD-DT2 13.3 (32) no reception from Mt Bigelow
KUVE-DT 46.1 (47) no reception from Mt Bigelow
KWBA-DT 58.1 (44) no reception from Sierra Vista

Here's some clarification to my 6/1/06 message regarding Continental Ranch Area Digital Locals.
I should have stated that the following are received from the direction of Mt Bigelow:
4-01
6-01, 02, 03, 04
9-01
11-01
13-01, 02
18-01
All are digital and Hi Def is received for sure on the 4 network stations. Don't remember if PBS Hi Def is on 6 or 27 because I havent viewed them for some time.

To recieve the following I have to rotate the antenna about 80 deg. to the south:
27-01
40-01
46-01, 02
58-01
These are also digital but I don't watch them and am not sure which are Hi Def. I think 27 is HD.

The actual digital channels are probably as shown in the 2 previous messages, but I did not look them up on the receiver prior to writing this. I know 9-01 is 35 because I had trouble setting that one up on the old 921 receiver.

Maybe I am lucky to receive these!

...Maybe I am lucky to receive these!Possibly. I get all the stations too using similar equuip (7775 preamp, 4228 antenna with a rotor), but am further south at Camino del Cerro. Though I can't see Bigelow either.

BTW, all the station info is on the first page of this thread. ;)

Earlier in this thread, there was discussion about Cox's contract being up for renewal late this year, and issues regarding public access channels, customer service, local HD channels, etc. I have been in contact with the city council about my views, and today I got a call from a company doing a survey on these questions. He couldn't say for sure, but the timing suggests that the city may be asking the questions. I gave them an earful. Has anyone else received a similar call?

This is the questionnaire on Cox in Tucson. (Copy and use as an URL.)

tucsonaz.gov/php-survey/public/survey.php?name=Cable_TV_Survey_copy1

Posted link does not work. This one does... Thanks for the "heads up" !!!!

http://www.tucsonaz.gov/hottopics/cablesurvey.html

Cox really has turned its back on Tucson. Even typing www.cox.com/tucson brings you to the "Cox Arizona" site. The HD link shows all of the Phoenix channels as part of the package. No disclaimer to the fact that it's only Phoenix that gets all networks, not Tucson.

I hope the City can work a deal with Comcast and give the whole city to one provider.

I feel worse for the folks in outlying areas like Tombstone. Take a look at the pathetic lineup for some of the small communities. "Our friend in the digital age"...yeah...RIGHT !!

The link works, just have to place a "www" in front of it. I filled it out, based on that link.

Earlier in this thread, there was discussion about Cox's contract being up for renewal late this year, and issues regarding public access channels, customer service, local HD channels, etc. I have been in contact with the city council about my views, and today I got a call from a company doing a survey on these questions. He couldn't say for sure, but the timing suggests that the city may be asking the questions. I gave them an earful. Has anyone else received a similar call?

Good for you fighting the good fight. It still mystifies me that people in Tucson haven't mobilized and gotten more attention to this ridiculous situation.

I read there will be more than 25 million HD sets in homes by this year.

It makes me sick that we've not added 1 single HD channel this year, not counting the Music channel, which we could easily do without.

As much as I despise the people at Cox, even the ones in Phoenix who don't make the decisions for Tucson, but especially corporate and Tucson, I would not have believed that we wouldn't have made ANY progress on ABC, Fox, and NBC by June 2006. I just can't believe it.

If someone else here talks to people with the city of anyone else and wants to get other people here to also be available to make similar comments, please let us know if the person or persons you speak to are interested in hearing from other residents who are being screwed by Cox.

Rory_Gilmore,

Did you fill out the survey, the link is just above your post? It might help, who knows.

Rory_Gilmore,

Did you fill out the survey, the link is just above your post? It might help, who knows.

I did fill it out, but I doubt it will do any good.

People need to be mobilized.

I'm not trying to change the subjects, but I'm a big Dixie Chicks fan. Most know about the fact that they got into trouble with comments about the President and many-most country stations won't play their music because 100 e-mails come in and the stations cave.

Most people won't ever see that survey, but the City is just like country music stations, if only 20 people complain they do nothing. They need a kick in the ass from 100's of people or they will assume it's not an issue. If people mobilized, if there was some media coverage of this, or if there were more of us who were active, and those people got 500 or more calls and e-mails they'd start worrying about their jobs. I'm sad that we don't see that kind of support for this issue in Tucson.

I see a lot of people buying the HD sets and I sometimes wonder if they even know what they're buying or what they're missing out on.

But if the city was REALLY pressured, they'd have their people let Cox know what was going on and that they might seriously lose their contract. If they really believed that would happen, we'd have every HD channel Comcast has within a month.

The problem with media coverage is that they are all in bed together. Cox advertises heavily on the local channels, radio and newspapers. Nobody wants to bad mouth Cox publicly because it may cost them ad revenue.

Unfortunately, this tiny subsection of a web forum is all we've got! There aren't enough of us here to make a dent. I did fill out the survey, I wrote to the newspapers, I called IT at the COT and have seen nothing to date.

Well, we know for sure that if we do nothing, nothing will happen. I did get a response from Carol West, and I think the city council is really checking this out. The survey is going to be included in two editions of the Daily Star and/or Citizen--so everyone should have an opportunity to complete it. I encourage everyone to send the link for the survey to their friends, and try to get as much input as possible. Comcast is a viable alternative for cable service in Tucson, and it may be time to make a switch. They already have video on demand and local digital/HD channels!

Well, we know for sure that if we do nothing, nothing will happen. I did get a response from Carol Ward, and I think the city council is really checking this out. The survey is going to be included in two editions of the Daily Star and/or Citizen--so everyone should have an opportunity to complete it. I encourage everyone to send the link for the survey to their friends, and try to get as much input as possible. Comcast is a viable alternative for cable service in Tucson, and it may be time to make a switch. They already have video on demand and local digital/HD channels!

I worked my butt off about 6 months ago and I'm just exhausted by the treatment that I got.

I didn't even post the worst of it back then. The executive offices were just SO not interested and then Ms. Doris promised to personally get back to me about my issues and she never did.

Now, it's bad enough to ignore your customers, but to actually have the nerve to promise to address the issues with someone and know that you are not going to do it, well, that just left me with an incredibly sick feeling.

When I hear about what Comcast has, I want to give myself an endoscopy with my garden hose.

By the way, it's bad enough that Cox sucks eggs, but does anyone know what's going on with CBS?

I don't watch much television during the summer during primetime, so I don't know what their deal is, but for 2 consecutive nights now they've shown Letterman is SD.

Anyone want to move with me to San Diego? Or even Phoenix? I'm so sad now...

At least KOLD waited until summer re-runs to have HD blow up again. Haven't seen HD there since Monday.

BTW...How 'bout their tremendous decision to break into the season finale of Cold Case to give us a 10 minute "breaking news" story of a 30 acre fire. After the "breaking news", they went to nearly the end of Cold Case in HD, then went backwards 10 minutes and brought the end in SD. It's good they showed the ending first, as my Tivo didn't record the 10 minute delay.

Also...while I'm at it...do we really need thunderstorm alerts? If I see lightening and hear thunder, I assume there is a thunderstorm in the area. What are we supposed to do when the alert lets us know it's coming?

At least KOLD waited until summer re-runs to have HD blow up again. Haven't seen HD there since Monday.

BTW...How 'bout their tremendous decision to break into the season finale of Cold Case to give us a 10 minute "breaking news" story of a 30 acre fire. After the "breaking news", they went to nearly the end of Cold Case in HD, then went backwards 10 minutes and brought the end in SD. It's good they showed the ending first, as my Tivo didn't record the 10 minute delay.

Also...while I'm at it...do we really need thunderstorm alerts? If I see lightening and hear thunder, I assume there is a thunderstorm in the area. What are we supposed to do when the alert lets us know it's coming?

Summer re-runs don't help me much when I'm trying to watch Letterman. :(

Just got my 1st HDTV (Sony LCD KDL-S2000), I scanned for digital stations during initial setup and got quite a few. Besides all the digital radio stations I also seemed to pick up KGUN (89.1), KVOA (89.4), KUAS (87.2), KOLD (88.3), KMSB (88.6), and I believe TNT HD (126.1).

My question is this the same as I would have gotten had I bought a HD antenna and will I receive true HD broadcasts from these channels? Specifically interested if I can watch the NBA finals tonight.

Primetime on KOLD was in SD, Letterman was in HD. You kinda got what you wanted. Unfortunately, 40 minutes into the show, their bizarre audio issue came up again. It sounds like an echo.

Just got my 1st HDTV (Sony LCD KDL-S2000), I scanned for digital stations during initial setup and got quite a few. Besides all the digital radio stations I also seemed to pick up KGUN (89.1), KVOA (89.4), KUAS (87.2), KOLD (88.3), KMSB (88.6), and I believe TNT HD (126.1).

My question is this the same as I would have gotten had I bought a HD antenna and will I receive true HD broadcasts from these channels? Specifically interested if I can watch the NBA finals tonight.

The stations numbers you got are the cable QAM versions of the ATSC OTA channels and yes they will be the same exact broadcasts as the over the air HD channels.

The other stations you received are not radio but the cable music channels that everyone gets free when they have a cable box.

I'm curious if anyone noticed a very annoying lip-sync delay on KVOA lately? It happens on digital 4-1 OTA and even worse on analog using Comcast cable directly. It even records that way on my VCR!

So did Tucson get ESPN2HD added to the lineup? Any announcements for our area on new HD content?

So did Tucson get ESPN2HD added to the lineup?

Like almost all decent channels, not on Cox. Perhaps you could check on Comcast...

Just got my digital cable today, and Comcast does have ESPN2 HD

There was an article about Comcast signing a nationwide agreement to carry the deuce. I suppose that was why the question was asked. Guess most Comcast subs are too busy watching network programming in HD to respond...

I got my Comcast bill today, always a joy.....but there was a bill message saying that we are getting two new non HD channels, Current TV and Playboy TV. Current TV is a digital plus channel, and PB TV will be $19.99 a month starting 26Jun. Here is the kicker, iNHD2 is going away 31Jul.....

Have you noticed how we get new HD channels on COMCAST? NCAA championship we got ABC, Olympics we got NBC and for a while UPN(?), world cup we get ESPNHD2....as I recall these all appeared the EXACT day the events occurred. Someone with COMCAST influence is a big sports fan...

Comcast just realizes sports are a big draw for HD fans. Aside from primetime programming, there isn't a whole lot of original content. Local UPN does not do HD. I wouldn't want to trade INHD2 for PB and Current, but I'm a DirecTV sub who can't get INHD1 or 2 anyway...

News on the Cox contract front: Carol West (ward two) wanted to forward my letter (about Cox's lack of interest in HD programming and customer input in general) to the whole council. They are discussing the issue and interested in customer input. I would encourage all of you to write to the city council about this. After the contract is awarded it will be too late. Go to http://www.tucsonaz.gov/mcc.html to find links to the parties involved.

Although this is nowhere near HD Tucson related, if you're going to write to the City Council regarding Cox, please include the fact that they are also unfairly blacking out the San Diego Padres games in Tucson. They hold the rights in the area and don't broadcast the games in town. As a result, no matter what your source (MLB.TV or MLB EI), Padres games are not available in our town because of Cox.

Here is a response I received from the Padres regarding the situation:

Thanks for your email; sorry for the delay in responding. Evidently, Tucson remains a part of Cox Channel 4 Padres territory, despite being at some distance from San Diego. That said, Cox has the option of not allowing competitive broadcasts provided by satellite and MLB.TV to be shown.

We wish it were otherwise and there were some other options, but at this point, that is the case.

Now...back to the HD talk...

PLease could someone tell me if the DVICO FusionHDTV5 RT Lite, HDTV Tuner Card, ATSC, QAM can be used with Comcast in Tucson. I am tempted to buy one of these PCI cards so that I can record HDTV programs to my hard drive for watching later on my high def TV. Thanks for any input as I don't want spend $90 on something that will not work!

If they receive QAM then they should work fine. I use the tuner in my Samsung TV to receive HD from 4,9,11,13,PBS, WB and TNT on my comcast cable. I do not have a cable box.

PLease could someone tell me if the DVICO FusionHDTV5 RT Lite, HDTV Tuner Card, ATSC, QAM can be used with Comcast in Tucson. I am tempted to buy one of these PCI cards so that I can record HDTV programs to my hard drive for watching later on my high def TV. Thanks for any input as I don't want spend $90 on something that will not work!
There's a few threads on this forum comparing that device to some others. But regardless, it should work with any cable provider.

Many thanks Jim and sytyguy for your comments. I will search this forum for more information. Just one more question, will Comcast allow me to have locals with the limited digital option even though I will not be renting an HDTV receiver/DVR?

Squeasel,

Absolutely, they are mandated by law to allow you to receive the HD locals via a basic subscription. I am currently in Surprise, and I have the Cox basic channels, and I receive all the unencrypted HD channels they have to offer, via HTPC (MyHD MDP-130 QAM card)

Hth,

Rich

Just had my digital cable installed (Cox) and noticed that all of the analog channels are also listed in the 800*range. Right now, CNN Headline news work in the 800 range but nothing else. Any idea when Cox will begin providing the analog channels in the digital format?

Just had my digital cable installed (Cox) and noticed that all of the analog channels are also listed in the 800*range. Right now, CNN Headline news work in the 800 range but nothing else. Any idea when Cox will begin providing the analog channels in the digital format?

Sometime this year hopefully.... They hae started doing it in Phoenix

Just had my digital cable installed (Cox) and noticed that all of the analog channels are also listed in the 800*range. Right now, CNN Headline news work in the 800 range but nothing else. Any idea when Cox will begin providing the analog channels in the digital format?


What benefit does that provide us besides needing a cable box on our other TV's?

Cox can't be tight on bandwidth in Tucson with their lack of HD and VoD.

The quality of the CNN Headline news channel currently showing digitally is miles above the analog version.

I'm in Green Valley considering switching from Dish to Cox when my Dish contract expires in August. I'll need HD and DVR of >=160 GB. I now have Cox internet and telephone. I also have a clear line of sight to Mt. Bigelow & get good signals with my indoor antenna.

From what I've read, the Cox SA 8300 seems to meet my expectations. I guess Direct TV could be another consideration, but I know very little about them.

I'm looking for advice & recommendations.

G.

Directv still has one of the best DVR's in the business, in the HR10-250, although it will not pckup HD locals, it can receive your OTA channels in HD, since you get good reception, you will be able to record those channels, and it has a 250GB HDD. I love it.

Here's a link that might help you out, http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108854-3.html?tag=coco

Good luck,

Rich

I would appreciate it if anyone could recommend a good program to tune my Sony CRT HDTV. Since it was repaired by a local Tucson repair shop it has never been as good as when we first purchased it. Bright red clothes for example seem to bleed into surrounding objects and have no definite outline. I tried to make adjustments but no improvement and I am concerned about making things worse. Thanks for any advice.

I used the Avia DVD on mine. I know that there are higher end ones, but I am very happy with the results, and they walk you through how to do everything.

Thank you Scottsfj40 for your speedy reply. With that information I will check out eBay, Half.com etc. and see if I can buy Avia at a reasonable price. By the way how often do you tune your TV?

I'm in Green Valley considering switching from Dish to Cox when my Dish contract expires in August. I'll need HD and DVR of >=160 GB. I now have Cox internet and telephone. I also have a clear line of sight to Mt. Bigelow & get good signals with my indoor antenna.
G.

I'm in Green Valley (actually in Sahuarita, but mailing address is Green Valley). I have opted for Cox expanded basic for cable and use OTA for local channels in HD. Only half of the local affiliates are available in digital on Cox. Even shows that are in SD look much better in digital format than they do in the analog format currently delivered by Cox.

Thank you Scottsfj40 for your speedy reply. With that information I will check out eBay, Half.com etc. and see if I can buy Avia at a reasonable price. By the way how often do you tune your TV?

I've read good things about the Avia DVD. But, before shelling out the bucks for it you might first want to try the free THX Optimizer utility found on most DVD's with THX - I use Star Wars 3. The THX optimizer has several test to check for color, contrast, etc., as well as audio. Also, check your TV's manual for manually checking & adjusting convergence.

The World Cup soccer games on ABC HD seem to be hit or miss if I can receive the signal. For other ABC events I've had no trouble. I currently receive my HD content OTA.

For those that have had OTA HD and cable HD, do you see any difference between the two? Strenght of signal, etc.?

I'm contemplating switching over to cable, but not sure if its worth it or not. The extra channels I would be interested in would be ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD. But I need to decide if its worth any extra $20 or so a month (upgrade to digital from regular cable, upgrade to HDTV package).

-- Scott

The World Cup soccer games on ABC HD seem to be hit or miss if I can receive the signal. For other ABC events I've had no trouble. I currently receive my HD content OTA.

For those that have had OTA HD and cable HD, do you see any difference between the two? Strenght of signal, etc.?

I'm contemplating switching over to cable, but not sure if its worth it or not. The extra channels I would be interested in would be ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD. But I need to decide if its worth any extra $20 or so a month (upgrade to digital from regular cable, upgrade to HDTV package).

-- Scott

I've watched a few world cup games on ABC HD and have not had any problems. I think they had some audio difficulties on one or two games but that wasn't a local issue.

I have Cox so I can't comment on ABC HD on Cable. But if your TV has a QAM tuner ABC HD should be unencrypted. The QAM number for Comcast is in the first post I think.

Edit: I can coment on ABC HD in regards to Cox, Cox sucks.

Tonight Cox is supposed to update the software on my HD DVR and from the letter I recieved will lose my programing to record showsand will need to reprogram it. I just hope that they dont mess the whole DVR up so it wont work but my quess is that will be the final results.

Tonight Cox is supposed to update the software on my HD DVR and from the letter I recieved will lose my programing to record showsand will need to reprogram it. I just hope that they dont mess the whole DVR up so it wont work but my quess is that will be the final results.

Does anyone know what updates are these?

Thanks,

DP

They're turning on digital simulcasts for channels 2-99. This is really a good thing, as it will result in better PQ on those channels as well as less space needed to record them on the DVR.

Are we really heading towards fall and another tv season with no hope of getting ABC, FOX, and NBC in HD on Cox?

I'm not kidding anymore...what do we have to do?

I'm ready to go postal, so, please, someone, give me some hope or let's all make on last push together (somehow) to get the "right" people's attention and force this issue.

I feel hopeless right now and hopeless me leads to ready-to-go postal me.

This has got to be resolved already. My cable bill actually laughs at me.

Are we really heading towards fall and another tv season with no hope of getting ABC, FOX, and NBC in HD on Cox?

I'm not kidding anymore...what do we have to do?

I'm ready to go postal, so, please, someone, give me some hope or let's all make on last push together (somehow) to get the "right" people's attention and force this issue.

I feel hopeless right now and hopeless me leads to ready-to-go postal me.

This has got to be resolved already. My cable bill actually laughs at me.

My suspicion is Cox won't get them until D* or E* announce they're bringing HD locals in.

Tony

My suspicion is Cox won't get them until D* or E* announce they're bringing HD locals in.

Tony

Not true, Cox is trying, And negotiating... not sure where the hangup is though...

Not true, Cox is trying, And negotiating... not sure where the hangup is though...


I'm sure they are... but the impetus to get it done NOW may be the locals coming from a DBS platform in HD. Then whatever the hang-up is will be resolved in a timely manner.

Tony

The hang-up is money, the networks want Cox to pay them for the privilege, and Cox doesn't want to, or wants a deal. This same thing happened in Phoenix a year or so ago.

The hang-up is money, the networks want Cox to pay them for the privilege, and Cox doesn't want to, or wants a deal. This same thing happened in Phoenix a year or so ago.
The owners of some of the local stations want money, not the networks, and Cox (along with almost every other MSO nationwide) doesn't want to cough it up. Cox Phoenix has had all 6 local network affiliates doing HD for at least 2 years now. They have not yet added independent KTVK who are doing their home D'Backs games in HD, and there is speculation that owner Belo is asking for money. If this is the case, it also explains why fellow Belo station KMSB is missing from Tucson's lineup.

I meant locals, sorry.

The owners of some of the local stations want money, not the networks, and Cox (along with almost every other MSO nationwide) doesn't want to cough it up. Cox Phoenix has had all 6 local network affiliates doing HD for at least 2 years now. They have not yet added independent KTVK who are doing their home D'Backs games in HD, and there is speculation that owner Belo is asking for money. If this is the case, it also explains why fellow Belo station KMSB is missing from Tucson's lineup.

But how comes Comcast carry all the local stations in HD?

Comcast is willing to pay the station owners and Cox isn't. Cox's policy of not paying is consistent nationwide as far as I know.
In other areas of the country where there is direct competition between cable providers, normally one will be willing to pay at least some of the stations and use that as a selling point, but unfortunately for Tucson viewers who want ABC, Fox, and NBC, and for Phoenix viewers who want KTVK, Cox has no competition. Thank the local governments for that...

Hey coyoteaz,

Nice to hear from you on the Tucson forum, and the Phoenix forum, love your input.

Comcast is willing to pay the station owners and Cox isn't. Cox's policy of not paying is consistent nationwide as far as I know.

I'm not so sure that things are consistent on a nationwide basis. Journal Broadcast Group owns both KGUN in Tucson and KTNV in Las Vegas. Cox operates cable systems in both Tucson and Las Vegas. The digital feeds from KTNV are available to Cox customers in Las Vegas, but the digital feeds from KGUN are not available to Cox customers in Tucson.

I sent an e-mail to Ray Depa of KGUN, and he replied that he has "tried very hard to get an agreement with Cox….the negotiations have dragged on for two years". He adds that negotiations are handled on a market by market basis.

I also sent an e-mail to Anne Doris of Cox, and she replied "We all have our own perspectives regarding retransmission agreements and must also operate within our corporate expectations as we attempt to come to terms on agreement for consent. My goal for Tucson is to get agreements for carriage with both KVOA and KGUN, but do so in a manner that makes sense for our operation and our customers."

The e-mail exchanges took place back in February. I haven't seen much progress since then.

KGUN was owned by Emmis until the end of 2005, and Emmis was one of those owners that wanted cash for carriage. This explains the historical lack of coverage. It's certainly possible that Journal decided that they want to be paid for their HD channels after KTNV signed the agreement with Cox. This appears to have been what happened with Belo, as KASW is available in HD but no other Belo stations in the state (KTVK, KMSB, and KTTU) have their DT stations available on Cox. Journal's website lists the following person as the contact for KGUN, so you might want to get in touch with him and see if he has anything new to add:
Andrew Stewart
Vice President and General Manager
Tel: (520) 290-7633
Fax: (520) 733-7080
astewart@journalbroadcastgroup.com

Thanks for the catch. Looks like Mr. Depa may no longer be in the loop at KGUN. Although he claims that KGUN is not being greedy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6905689&highlight=depa#post6905689), he appears to have an attitude that might made it difficult for the parties to ever reach agreement.

I will contact Mr. Stewart (per your suggestion) and see what he has to say.

Received a reply from Mr. Stewart in which he says the following:
"I will be meeting with them again next week. They have not been willing to find a way to fairly compensate us for our programming to date. I am hopeful that we can get the situation resolved soon."

If money is the issue, Cox could cut back on the number of mailings they send EACH WEEK trying to recruit new customers. I received 4 individual mailings plus 2 full page ads in the mail this week alone. If only one of those mailings demonstrated the fact that I could see HD locals on cable, I would consider utilizing Cox for TV, Phone and Internet.

I just had a phone call yesterday from a Cox sales rep. I pressed her on exactly which HD stations I would get in Tucson. After she read her list, I pointed out that her list didn't include ABC, NBC or Fox. I also pointed out that Comcast has made arrangements to run TiVO software on their HD DVR, and that it would make Cox much more attractive if they did the same.

I'm very happy now with Cox internet and telephone services, and would love to add Cox cable -- just call me back when you have ALL the local stations in HD and have TiVo DVR service available. And please pass along my comments!

I know. It won't go anywhere, but it made ME feel good!

Would it be safe to say that ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX, etc have spent millions to update their equipment to provide HD channels and they want someone (Cox, Comcast) to help pay the expenses? Hell I don’t blame the local TV stations when Cox turns around and charges their subscribers for digital equipment to receive the HD channels. Granted OTA folks are not paying but those that run commercials with the local TV stations are fronting the bills.

I think Cox needs to step up and pay their share. Nothing is free in life but Cox wants its cake and eat it too. I have been a long time Cox supporter but time is wearing thin with them. Their $99.00 Phone, Cable, Internet is a bunch a bull when all the hidden charges come to play. The phone is a joke compared to Quest when you look at all the hidden fees that Cox charges. I believe my son used 411 ONCE and we were charged $3.00.

I am thinking of dropping Phone and Cable and going elsewhere. The internet can not be beaten at least not at my home as I am hooked up right at the head-in with very few if any other customers online. I have a blazing connection.

I've been very satisfied with Qwest DSL. I pay about $90 /month for 5/768 DSL, unlimited long distance, caller id, call forward and call waitiing. I really can't tell the difference between 5MB and 9MB. Most of the data coming from the internet is not sourced at 9mb so it doesn't matter. Additionally, Cox blocks several ports while Qwest only prevents users from running an e-mail server. Port 80 is open on Qwest and is not with Cox. Fortunate to get all OTA HD and have the DirecTV HD Tivo. I doubt I go to Cox no matter what they had to offer anymore.

BTW...did anybody ever hear results from the City poll regarding Cox? I never heard back from anybody and wonder if that too was just another exercise in futility..

gworkmank,

So how much for just internet at that bandwidth? Mainly, because I have Vonage.

TIA,

Rich

It's $35 for the year. Plug your number into the website to see what deals they currently offer.

I run a VOIP box from Broadvox for my second line and I also run a slingbox from here. It'll stream the video at about 550k and I can still talk on the second line without a problem.

I run a Shoutcast server for my MP3s. With Cox, I'd get alot of drops on the stream. With Qwest, it's not an issue.

Would it be safe to say that ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX, etc have spent millions to update their equipment to provide HD channels and they want someone (Cox, Comcast) to help pay the expenses? Hell I don’t blame the local TV stations when Cox turns around and charges their subscribers for digital equipment to receive the HD channels. Granted OTA folks are not paying but those that run commercials with the local TV stations are fronting the bills.

I think Cox needs to step up and pay their share. Nothing is free in life but Cox wants its cake and eat it too.
You sound like you work for one of the stations in question. Cox doesn't charge a cent for the HD channels beyond the standard cost for their SD digital tier and the price of the box. In addition, everyone who subscribes to "lifeline" service or better has the ability to receive the local stations Cox carries with a QAM tuner for no additional charge. Local stations don't deserve money for a product they give away for free. I might see giving them some money for cable carriage if I was guaranteed to get a different feed than OTA, with 100% perfect HD and 5.1 switching and no multicasting, but with the crappy job most stations do in one or more of those aspects, expecting viewers to pay more for something available for free is ludicrous.

Local stations (or their owners) made the choice to go with partial/full HD equipment. The FCC only said they had to be digital by a certain date, but there is no requirement for HD. The owners obviously realized that the HD audience will account for a huge portion of advertising revenue in the not-too-distant future, and decided that they wanted in. It's very shortsighted of them to cut out a large portion of their audience over a few bucks a month. Now that Nielsen is counting digital viewers, how many ratings points will KVOA, KGUN, and KMSB lose over those Cox viewers who won't watch their channels because they aren't available in HD? The number will only continue to grow.

It's $35 for the year. Plug your number into the website to see what deals they currently offer.

You must mean a month, I found $26/month, and the plug your number wasn't working......I tried various numbers with the same results, nothing.

You sound like you work for one of the stations in question. Cox doesn't charge a cent for the HD channels beyond the standard cost for their SD digital tier and the price of the box.

Nothing could be further from the truth. No I don't work for any TV stations. In order to receive HD channels I have to pay for the digital tier and the rental of Cox HD equipment. Now Cox has you and me paying for their equipment while providing a HD signal that they want to re-broadcast for FREE!!! All I am saying is the locals want a part of the re-broadcast cable pie to help front the millions or billions they stand to spend in the future.

Hey buddy I have some ocean front property in my backyard I will sell you...

Cox doesn't charge a cent for the HD channels beyond the standard cost for their SD digital tier and the price of the box.
In order to receive HD channels I have to pay for the digital tier and the rental of Cox HD equipment. Now Cox has you and me paying for their equipment while providing a HD signal that they want to re-broadcast for FREE!!! All I am saying is the locals want a part of the re-broadcast cable pie to help front the millions or billions they stand to spend in the future.
Would you not agree that there are a large number of people who receive the SD digital channels without HD service? Would you also agree that the equipment needed to decode HD is more complex and therefore more expensive than what is required to decode SD? The entire price difference to add HD on top of SD digital service is $5 per month, which covers the cost of the more expensive box. I know this because I was one of those people who subscribed to SD digital cable. After a while, I decided that I wanted to start watching shows on DHD and ESPNHD, so I called Cox and for a mere $5 per month I got a far more advanced box (with Firewire, DVI, and component out) that decodes HD. The HD channels came at no extra charge since I already was paying for digital channels. You may view it as Cox ripping you off for $35 on top of your analog service, when in reality it's $5 on top of the same digital service that SD-only viewers gets. Oh, and I've since dropped the service since Cox effectively disabled the firewire. I now pay $10 per month for lifeline service (2-22, 95-99) and use a $99 PCI card to receive the locals in HD.

In addition, most of these owners want unreasonable fees for their service. They want upwards of $1 per month per subscriber. Note that this isn't per subscriber to the HD channels, it's $1 per month for EVERY CABLE SUBSCRIBER. Multiply that by 6 local channels, and you just increased my cable bill by more than 50% for something available over the air for free. I wouldn't be against reasonable fees, especially if cable went a-la-carte and every subscriber got to see the price for each individual channel to know just who wants to screw them. They would see that some channels like Tucson's KWBA want viewers to see their ad-supported and otherwise freely-available programming for free. They would see that due to the need to balance the cost of programming over only those viewers who receive it, some channels would add an extra $10 per month to their bill. I don't know about you, but I don't find any local channel worth $10 per month. Showtime or HBO maybe, but those actually have more than 3 hours per night of HD, and are commercial-free.

They're turning on digital simulcasts for channels 2-99. This is really a good thing, as it will result in better PQ on those channels as well as less space needed to record them on the DVR.

I just returned from a two-week trip (got a new grandson!) Anyways, where are the digital silmulcasts located? I don't see any channels in the 800 series anymore. Are we to assume the 0-99 channels are now digital instead of analog, or do I need to do something to force the software upgrade? Thanks

Nothing seems to change around here. Blame Cox, blame the networks, wonder what the city is doing, exchanging e-mails with people who say the claim to be negotiating, blah, blah, blah.

Yet no one from Cox or the networks or the city has answered a few simple questions.

KOLD and the WB ARE on Cox HD. Why are their business models so radically different than that of the other networks? What would Mr. Stewart say about that?

Why do they seem to feel fairly compensated? Why shouldn't the viewers be the ones in the loop? So, maybe, they can keep playing these nonsensical games with us?

Also, what is the difference between what Comcast did and what Cox is doing? What, exactly, were they able to do that got them a deal? If CBS and the WB were already giving their HD feeds for no charge, how would Comcast have negotiated fees for the other networks? Are they paying NBC, FOX, and ABC, but not paying CBS and the WB? That makes no sense to me that 3 networks would be making money and 2 would choose to give their programming away, while knowing other networks were getting money.

When I was in the mix with the corporate people at the WB and that led us, those with Cox, to all get the WB to get the HD feed...it was pure luck and only some of my effort. But what I learned was the COX didn't care that the WB wasn't asking for a fee. Cox had made an internal decision to not even talk with the WB, because they had no desire to offer us that channel. Internal e-mails bore that out to be the truth.

Really, after that, how could I ever believe Cox again? How could anyone? They know there is a growing unhappiness and, while it was less 6 months ago, once the WB and I got the word out to some of you viewers and on the WB website that Cox was simply unwilling to carry the WB HD for free, they got worried. That kind of bad publicity could have snow-balled into getting more attention to this issue, so they quicky moved to add the channel. Everyone thought that was progress and expected the other channels to be added soon. Since then, we've gotten nothing else. And that ridiculous music channel counts for nothing.

I just get sick and tired of the whole issue, because it makes no sense and no one seems willing to speak to the viewers and be straight with us. Meanwhile the debate rages on about who's fault it is. Well, it's not ours...it's theirs. Cox and the networks. 50/50. They both suck for doing this and when satellite offers the locals in HD, I will show Cox how much I appreciate what they've done.

In the meantime, I rarely watch ABC, NBC, and FOX, and I will continue to give as much support as I can in the future to CBS and the CW.

Whatever anyone says, once Comcast got all the networks done in Tucson, there was no longer an excuse that I could buy. Everything since then has just been more sand thrown in my face.

I wish more viewers expressed that kind of feeling to people who talk about on-going negotiations like we're just idiots.

Bob Walkup - mcweb@tucsonaz.gov

José Ibarra - jose.ibarra@tucsonaz.gov

Carol West - ward2@tucsonaz.gov

Karin Uhlich - ward3@tucsonaz.gov

Shirley Scott - ward4@tucsonaz.gov

Steve Leal - steve.leal@tucsonaz.gov

Nina J. Trasoff - ward6@tucsonaz.gov

If memory serves me correctly the original city contract that the City of Tucson signed with Cox was for 15 years of which the system was (then) to turn over to Tucson after the contract expired. I have provided the names of the Mayor and our lovely City Council Members so that we can flood their email accounts with messages of how unhappy the taxpayers are with our cable system. Granted I know that none of the above members were involved in the contract signing years ago, but they are who we should be complaining too. Maybe we do have a voice if we can get enough forum members leaning on the Mayor and his staff…

It will be nice to see Veronica Mars in HD next season. Thanks to KWBA.

And it will be on right after Gilmore Girls!

If we don't get HD, I won't be watching anything on Fox or NBC. And KGUN will only get my eyes for Lost, I'll be using my HD antenna, and I will not watch the commercials.

It's not much, but it's the best this 1 person can do.

The digital simulcast channels are mapped to channel 2-XX. If you have a digital box, you should be getting the digital channels now.

I emailed Mr. Stewart of KGUN in regards to why KGUN and COX can not settle on a agreement, he basically said that KGUN wants to be compensated for the millions of dollars that KGUN has spent in the conversion to digital.

I emailed Mr. Stewart of KGUN in regards to why KGUN and COX can not settle on a agreement, he basically said that KGUN wants to be compensated for the millions of dollars that KGUN has spent in the conversion to digital.
Funny, given that the current owners weren't responsible for any of those dollars, since the new setup was purchased long before they bought the station. As TV is an advertising-funded medium, KGUN should be looking to recoup its expenses by selling ads directed to their HD audience, not by trying to pry it out of the hands of those who can't receive the signal OTA due to KGUN's lousy choice of transmitter location. The stations will eventually realize that by trying to get a few bucks now and failing that it will cost them far more in the long run due to lost viewers, ratings points, and advertising dollars.

I emailed Mr. Stewart of KGUN in regards to why KGUN and COX can not settle on a agreement, he basically said that KGUN wants to be compensated for the millions of dollars that KGUN has spent in the conversion to digital.

First, it's kind of a waste to e-mail him and not point out certain things and ask some specific questions.

Like, why don't they, as the other poster (and many others before) recoup those costs through advertising? Cox is simply an antenna for KGUN. If I have a house with an outdoor antenna and great line of site (and no cox), I SHOULDN'T have to help with those costs?? Why? Or what about people with outdoor antennas AND Cox? How would you go about justfying charging them a fee when they don't need Cox for the locals and have cable or satellite for the other channels they offer?

KGUN has many costs. They pay their employees...why not another 50 cents per month, per Cox subscriber, to offset those costs? Because the shows are coming in through Cox digitally (although it sure does look analog to me) and they aren't charging for that. So, we're welcome to watch their programming, just not in HD. So, support our advertisers, watch our shows, but if you want to see us in HD, we want some bloody money. But only from some of you and we can't really give you a good reason why we are entitled to that money or how we're deciding who has to pay...other than the obvious shakedown of cable users (even those with antennas).

Also, why didn't KOLD and KWBA want to charge viewers? What kind of business is it, that Mr. Stewart want to charge his customers, while those 2 channels want their viewers to WATCH their programming, no matter whether it's HD, analog or digital.

What deal was struck with Comcast? Why not let the viewers know? What reason would they have to keep it secret? National Security? If KGUN is looking to make a deal that could possibly cause my cable bill to go up for a service they offer OTA for no charge to some people, I should know about it.

The city should be mandating that they go public with this information, but, as in the case of that survey, like most governments, they aren't advocates for the people but for big business. I'm sure they all know the affiliate owners and Cox corporate people very well. The rest of us have to resort to desperate e-mails hoping someone will do something...but they won't.

Congress recognized that the stations and networks would not move to digital TV on their own, so they MANDATED it. Stations cannot blame, nor hold financially responsible, the cable companies or the viewers! TV is an ad-sponsored medium. If it costs more to broadcast, they should raise the ad revenues... Simply put, because it really is just that simple. The local stations' signals are passed through the cable system untouched, and free of charge. Any claims to the contrary are pure crap, Mr. Depa. If you feed digital HD to Cox, they will pass it on to us.

I made one last push to get some answers and got more of the same.

Carol West is on vacation...until sometime in August. I was promised a call back by a Ms. Lee before 3pm and she never got back to me (I am not surprised). I was unable to get any answers, but I did get the very "useful" information that Ms. West is retired, doesn't get paid a lot (which made me feel very bad for her), and she can't be expected to do much of anything. I can't believe these people. They are shameless.

I called the Mayor's office and the Mayor's assistant sounded like he was on the Cox payroll. Or the affiliates payroll, it was about equal. Every time, literally every single time that I made a point, he took the defense of Cox and the hold out networks. He didn't want to discuss the issue of giving the contract to Comcast if Cox can't provide the services we deserve. He seemed surprised that I knew that that was even possible and when he seemed flustered, he told me he'd talk to people about it, but he had to go now because he was on his way to the airport.

Possibly flying to meet Ms. West in Fiji.

Spoke with the new GM at KGUN. He's a clone of Depa. Same talking points.

The only good news came last. I spoke with a man named Gary, who is the GM of KVOA, and he was VERY nice. He was very honest, open, and apologetic. He truly said he understood the frustration and he told me everything that he could and explained to me in detail why he couldn't talk about certain issues. Bottom line, he told me, "You shouldn't even have to be dealing with these problems or asking these questions, you should be able to turn on your tv and watch NBC programming in HD."

Very, very nice man. If the other people were simply willing to be as honest and open and take the time to talk to their customers in this same fashion, I'd be able to handle some of the frustration better. Sometimes you don't get what you want even when you are completely in the right (as we Cox customers, I believe, are in this matter), but knowing that someone actually cares and is doing their very best for you, sometimes, that's enough. Or, at least, dulls the pain.

I will NOT keep my self-imposed ban on NBC. He's gained a viewer just by being concerned for me and treating me well. Some businesses never learn, but this guy is top notch.

He told me that there are active discussions with Cox, more in the last few months, than in the last 2 years. He thought they'd have had a deal in time for the Olympics and thought that was a missed opportunity, but he said if he was a betting man, he thinks that it could be done in time for the fall.

He gave some specifics of why his channel was different from the others and actually said it's possible the deal negotiated with Comcast was better than what's being asked from Cox. He couldn't say for sure, because that's private, but he admitted that it was possible. So, I asked him if it was possible that Comcast isn't paying for their deal with the 3 Cox hold out networks (or paying very little). He said it WAS possible and that sometimes deals are cut with favors or incentives with one cable company that aren't the same with another.

I thought that was interesting, because it suggests Comcast may not have had to do very much to get a deal done or that Cox is being asked to do more. So, while I hate Cox, it does give some reason for why they might not be willing to pay or pay more than a company that is in the same area.

I got the following from a city official in response to my email to the mayor and council. I witheld the name, but otherwise it is intact:

"Dear Mr. Green:

Thank you for your recent email to the Mayor and Council. Your email was forwarded to me for a response, but please be aware that your entire email went to the Mayor and Council, and they can also view this response immediately online.

We have been aware of the online forum of discussion regarding negative feedback on Cox performance, and we read the comments from time to time. The City of Tucson has taken extensive measures to obtain community input and other pertinent information regarding Cox as we enter negotiations with Cox for renewal of their cable TV license. We have held several focus groups representing various community interests, we have contracted with an outside firm to perform an at random phone survey of Tucson residents, we have published both an online survey and a mail-in/fax-in survey, we have hired a consultant to perform a technical inspection of the Cox subscriber system, and we hired a specialized accounting firm to perform a financial audit of Cox. In the fall, there will be public Open Houses at each ward office to obtain more community input.

Your assertions regarding Cox's reduced rollout of high definition channels, as well as the comparison to Comcast, have been popular themes recurring in the surveys. These assertions are taken seriously by the City, and will be part of the overall package of information that we have available to us during negotiations. Please be aware that Cox's license is a non-exclusive license, which means that any other cable TV operator who is also willing to provide universal service to Tucson residents can apply for a license.

Again, thank you for taking the time to send us an in-depth and thoughtful email regarding Cox performance.

Sincerely,"

Well, at least they are reading this forum, and acknowledge the recurring complaints. Maybe someone from Comcast will pick up the ball, and apply for a license? The stations do not ask over-the-air customers to pay for their service and they have no right to ask cable customers to pay either! Ad-supported service is what they provide, and all the funding they need should come from advertisers. If I have to pay extra for the programming, then give it to me with no commercials and I will consider it...... In a couple ov years, the analog channels will be gone anyways, and they will have no choice but to provide a digital feed--for free. Why not do it now, for the sake of good will towards the viewer?

More people from Tucson need to be directed to this forum. I am still baffled by how many people who are buying HD-TVs and are not finding their way here. I know they're not happy, but I don't know if they (and they're the majority) are being heard. Because, if they were, I think this issue might have reached a tipping point.

I don't trust what the city said, I don't trust Cox, and I don't trust the affiliates. This is simply a lose-lose situation for the viewers until something shifts.

The one thing I can say is that it does seem like there does seem to be more "negotiations" now from all sides and, for once, there appears to be a little urgency behind them.

But I've been disappointed before and I'm not prepared to let myself get hopeful quite yet.

Only a massive assault of e-mails and complaints, requiring a lot more of the HD audience currently being screwed by Cox and the hold-outs taking action, would, in my opinion, push things faster than whatever speed Cox and the affiliates are currently going at.

I would bet my left nut that Cox doesn't lose their license. That's all talk, again, unless the people who spend the money (the people who have the kind of disposable income ADVERTISERS crave) do something more pro-active. I've looked at this board and wondered why it hasn't grown. But if the city thinks that this is simply a small group, because there isn't a lot of posting here, they are gonna be in for a shock one day if they let this fester and the majority gets pissed at waiting for someone to do something. But I do vote.

While I'm not certain why more people haven't found their way here or why they haven't been more vocal in complaining, I can tell you that I'm in BB and CC every week and there is always a conversation going on about the lack of HD service in Tucson with Cox. And when I bought the crappy HD antenna that I own (well made, but I'm in a place where it simply won't work well no matter what you have...other than cable), the people who sold it to me told me that a lot of angry Cox subscribers are the ones buying these things.

One person high up at a network said that they were upset that they couldn't even get the HD feed of their own channel until Comcast got it. The same person told me that every day people who work at the hold out networks and live in the Cox Zone can be heard complaining that there is still no deal. But I'll believe the mayor and council are serious when I hear them speak publically at one of their meetings about their concern for people in Tucson not getting the service that they should from Cox and that the affiliates need to do a better job as well.

PS-I always forget to mention the seemingly never-ending and misleading ads that I get from Cox that imply they carry all the networks in HD. The ones that make sure to mention that Cox is the place to go for ALL your HD needs and that you have to make sure to have Cox HD to catch your favorite programming. I'd love to play that ad before the city council and mayor with Anne Doris there to defend it. "It's a national ad, we're not responsible for the advertising, we don't actually lie-we just mislead." If you run an ad that says you can catch your favorite programming only with Cox HD and you don't tell your audience as well that your favorite programming had better be on the WB or CBS, you are lying to people.

Of course there would be a lot of irony in trying to discuss misleading ads to a gaggle of politicians.

I am a first time poster who stumbled upon this site tonight after having a discussion with a friend on comcast's hd service, and cox's lack of. I wanted to thank the posters for filling me in on the current situation with cox. I will be emailing the city council members right after this post.

My question is about CBS reception. I use cox, of course, with the SA 8200. I have a Phillips 32PF5320 that I purchased at Target about 9 months ago. I use the hd services, as limited as they are, and have no problems, except with CBS, in particular all three CSIs. During the opening credits and during the flashback scenes, my TV either pixelates right across the middle of my screen or goes to a back screen for about two seconds. My question for the forum is who has the problem, my TV, Cox's reception, or KOLD's broadcast? Every other show looks great in 720p, and most of CSI does too, just those few scenes.

I would appreciate any input. I posted this here since it was a Tucson specific group. If I should post elsewhere, please just let me know.

So, I asked him if it was possible that Comcast isn't paying for their deal with the 3 Cox hold out networks (or paying very little). He said it WAS possible and that sometimes deals are cut with favors or incentives with one cable company that aren't the same with another.

I figure with Comcast there were a couple of possibilities.

Either (a) Comcast paid what the stations wanted. Or (b) the stations accepted a smaller (or no) payment since a lot of the Comcast customers can't get the stations OTA and it is much more beneficial for them to be on Comcast than on Cox.

I think most people in Cox land have gone ahead and purchased an antenna, which is what I've done. The only real drawback is that I don't have a DVR for HD OTA. Many Comcast customers didn't even have that option. I'm betting that the locals didn't ask as much from Comcast because of this. I've even debated dropping cable altogether since I can get all the locals in HD anyway. I know that I haven't upgraded to any DVR's because they don't have the HD channels.

Does anyone know if stations are paid for their analog feeds?

Rory, I appreciate all your work. I hope it pays off like it did with the WB.

Stations have the option to try to get compensation for their analog channel or elect must-carry. Most stations that want to be compensated do not receive cash for their analog stations, but instead receive something else such as ad time om cable networks or carriage of cable networks owned by the same company. In the case of stations that get compensation, the actual deals are generally kept secret so they can't be used by competing stations as a bargaining chip. Must-carry means that the station receives no compensation for carriage. This is the only option available for PBS, but it is also chosen by most smaller stations such as religious, Spanish, and shopping channels who otherwise might not get a slot at all.

We moved to Tucson about 3 weeks ago.

I got DirecTV so that I could get the NFL games, but I am very disappointed that there is no way to get HD locals. I guess there will be no watching of Boston Legal, Grey's Anatomy, Smallville, etc., in High Definition this year - let alone Sunday night football... :(

I tried an antenna, but we live just south of Catalina, and all the mountains allow us to receive is 27.1 (PBS) and 40.1 (UNI).

Are there any better alternatives? Or do I just have to wait until DirecTV has the Tucson HD locals available via satellite?

If Smallville will still be on channel 58, KWBA is available through Cox. A couple of pages ago, there were reports that KVOA wanted to get a deal done before fall. Then again, 40 pages ago we were also complaining about no HD on cable.

Do you live in an area served by Cox or Comcast?

Have you tried http://antennaweb.org it should tell you what you have the capability of receiving, and the kind of antenna you will need.

You can do what I did and get Comcast (if it is available) and they put the local HD channels on their cable. The problem is that you have to have a TV that will decode QAM modulated HD (most do) because the Tivo only does off-air signals (8VSB). If the HD10-250 would do QAM I'd never get rid of it!

If Smallville will still be on channel 58, KWBA is available through Cox. A couple of pages ago, there were reports that KVOA wanted to get a deal done before fall. Then again, 40 pages ago we were also complaining about no HD on cable.

Do you live in an area served by Cox or Comcast?

Smallville will be on KWBA and the next season debuts on September 28th.

I checked antennaweb, and I would need a large amplified antenna, but I'm not sure it takes the mountains into account.

My area has Comcast, but it would suck to have both Comcast and D* - how much would that cost!?!

You can pick up an external QAM tuner for around $160 here. Get the basic cable package and you'll see the HD channels through this box. You won't be able to record in HD, but at least you'll get the big 4 +WB in HD.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F3QR9K/002-0299391-0868836?v=glance&n=172282

I have the tuner built into my TV - I'm just not thrilled about the prospect of -

- Lining a third cable from the exterior of my house to the HDTV
- Paying Comcast (how much?) for the local channels
- Not being able to record those channels

You can use a diplexor if you aren't planning on use the 5 LNB Dish.

I don't know how much you'd pay Comcast, but your only other choice is to move to an area that will provide you with HD OTA. So many more of us complain because Cox won't give us ABC, NBC or Fox in HD...I don't think you'll garner much sympathy from any of us Cox folks.

This box has a QAM tuner and no monthly fees. A bit of an investment, but you can record HD.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067TYEK/002-0299391-0868836?vi=tech-data&n=172282

You can use a diplexor if you aren't planning on use the 5 LNB Dish.

I don't know how much you'd pay Comcast, but your only other choice is to move to an area that will provide you with HD OTA. So many more of us complain because Cox won't give us ABC, NBC or Fox in HD...I don't think you'll garner much sympathy from any of us Cox folks.

This box has a QAM tuner and no monthly fees. A bit of an investment, but you can record HD.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067TYEK/002-0299391-0868836?vi=tech-data&n=172282
I hear you - and I sympathize with others who can't get the channels...

It just sucks that I can't get everything I want without a gigantic headache.

I've seen that Sony DVR before - looks nice, although it would be nicer to have an all-in-one solution for D*, QAM, and OTA.

I guess I'll either learn to live with it or figure out another option.

I hear you - and I sympathize with others who can't get the channels...

It just sucks that I can't get everything I want without a gigantic headache.

I've seen that Sony DVR before - looks nice, although it would be nicer to have an all-in-one solution for D*, QAM, and OTA.

I guess I'll either learn to live with it or figure out another option.

If you only lived in Phoenix ;) , I think Direct has their locals now in HD. Tucson is in the 70's in the market size list, so don't expect Direct or Dish to get us local HD too soon.

Comcast for locals only would be like $15 or something like that. You don't need their digital package or even their expanded package. And if you're going to get Internet anyway might was well do Comcast locals and Internet together.

But gworkman is right, if you have Comcast we don't want to hear no stinking complaining! :)

If you only lived in Phoenix ;) , I think Direct has their locals now in HD. Tucson is in the 70's in the market size list, so don't expect Direct or Dish to get us local HD too soon.

If Dish have locals in HD in Phoenix or even Houston and I changed my address to that city would the 'spot beam' of either cities reach Tucson? Thanks.

Phoenix, yes. Houston, absolutely not.

I have been reading this forum since I subscribed to Cox Digital Cable the last year to get HD service. I subscribed to this forum so I could add my voice to the others who are complaining about Cox service in Tucson. I have had a lot of trouble with Cox. I filled out the city's questionaire expressing my difficulties with Cox service. I have little faith in Cox and I suspect the only time they will understand the extent of our disatisfaction with them is if/when they lose their license. I have no experience with Comcast, but it appears that those who have experience with both Comcast and Cox are happier with Comcast.

Dish Network is having a great HD promotion with monthly rebates. The price of the Silver package is about equal to Cox extended basic (which I have in Tucson) with more HD channels (none in Cox extended basic), so I am moving to Dish. I don't need the local channels from Dish, as I get OTA HD, so this is solved for me. The only reason I haven't changed before is the high-speed internet service I have with Cox. With the Dish package, I will keep the service, pay the extra monthly fee ($5?) and still get much more than I have now for a minimal price increase.

Getting installation tomorrow!

Have you looked into Qwest for internet? You could save some money with their specials.

Have you looked into Qwest for internet? You could save some money with their specials.
Yes, I considered Qwest. It looks like all the specials would require a package, which actually increases my cost. And the connection would be slower than Cox, according to all the savvy folks I've asked.

In regards to adjusting the picture left or right or up and down on the SA8300HD DVR. The displayed image is not centered on my plasma screen I have a Samsung OTA receiver that gives me the ability to adjust the picture. In looking throughout the settings of the 8300 I do not see that the picture can be adjusted.

Anybody have a clue if the picture can be adjusted?

Dodgeviper,

See if this thread is of any help, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859&highlight=8300hd

Anybody in Tucson have any luck pulling in Phoenix OTA? Just wondering if it's at all possible...

We currently have only one cable line to where we have our HD-DVR through DirecTV installed. The installer would have helped line another cable, except that it is difficult - the TV is on an interior wall with no easy access to from the exterior walls - it's sort of an island.

Anyone have any suggestions as to someone in the Tucson area to contact to help figure out a way to get a line or two there?

Thanks.

Anybody in Tucson have any luck pulling in Phoenix OTA? Just wondering if it's at all possible...
I would presume there are some people who can do that. I do know there is someone on the Phoenix forum who is able to pull in Tucson stations, if that is relevant.

Anybody in Tucson have any luck pulling in Phoenix OTA? Just wondering if it's at all possible...
Not likely. Phoenix DT stations broadcast from towers on South Mountain, with the antennas at 850-900 meters above sea level. Tucson DT stations on Mt. Bigelow are around 2650-2700 meters above sea level. Even though most of the Phoenix stations (KPHO, KTVK, KUTP, KAET, and KSAZ) are broadcasting at the maximum allowed 1000kW, they are too far below the horizon for most in the Tucson area to receive. Even with the much lower power (KOLD: 105, KGUN: 266.3, KVOA: 200/405) put out by the Tucson stations, most in Phoenix who aren't shadowed by mountains would be able to receive them with a good antenna pointed in the right direction. You'd be better off with D*/E* and "moving" to Phoenix to pick up the big 4 HD locals if you dislike/are unable to receive the Tucson locals. Although I'm not sure about the new birds, under the older ones, Tucson and Phoenix shared the same spotbeam so reception *shouldn't* be an issue.

It's more the hobbyist in me than actually viewing these stations. I'd like to have picked up KUTP for Suns games, but besides that, there's really nothing more to gain. I've got an outdoor antenna and I've played around with it trying to get a digital ping. My brother, in Queen Creek, can't get Phoenix from his home, yet he gets Tucson digitals without a problem. I wondered why Tucson signals could get to Phoenix but not vice-versa. Now I know. Thanks coyoteaz....

You'd be better off with D*/E* and "moving" to Phoenix to pick up the big 4 HD locals if you dislike/are unable to receive the Tucson locals. Although I'm not sure about the new birds, under the older ones, Tucson and Phoenix shared the same spotbeam so reception *shouldn't* be an issue.

Could you eloaborate on "moving" to Phoenix?

I wish we knew for sure that the spotbeams are shared between the 2 cities with the new SATs, for I will have residences in both cities, and currently subd to D*.

In addition, most [local affiliate] owners want upwards of $1 per month per subscriber. Note that this is $1 per month for EVERY CABLE SUBSCRIBER. Multiply that by 6 local channels, and you just increased my cable bill by more than 50% for something available over the air for free.


Are you saying that you would not be willing to pay and extra $6/mo. to get all the locals in HD? I know I sure as hell would pay that. You brought it up, but there really is no poiint in thinking about it because Cox would never agree to that. Some may feel like you about paying extra but it would be great to have the option.

coyoteaz, if I missed your point, please let me know.

I'm thinking he's saying the local stations want to collect that, in other words they are greedy, considering they give it away via OTA, for those that can receive it.

Could you eloaborate on "moving" to Phoenix?
It's posssible to have different service and billing addresses. The service address controls whch local stations you receive. If your service address is in Phoenix, you would qualify to receive the MPEG4 spotbeam locals. If your service address is in LA, you would qualify to receive the MPEG2 channels from there.
Are you saying that you would not be willing to pay and extra $6/mo. to get all the locals in HD? I know I sure as hell would pay that. You brought it up, but there really is no poiint in thinking about it because Cox would never agree to that. Some may feel like you about paying extra but it would be great to have the option.

coyoteaz, if I missed your point, please let me know.
Yeah, you missed the point. Although I don't know specifics on what other owners are asking for Sinclair is asking for fees for their HD station for every single person who subscribes to cable, not just those with HD service. This would theoretically mean a $6 per month increase for every cable subscriber in a city. All this for signals available for free to most. I shouldn't be further penalized just because I live in an apartment facing the wrong direction for an indoor antenna and am unable to put up an outdoor antenna, and those Cox subscribers in the shadow of Mt. Lemmon shouldn't be either.

It's posssible to have different service and billing addresses. The service address controls whch local stations you receive. If your service address is in Phoenix, you would qualify to receive the MPEG4 spotbeam locals. If your service address is in LA, you would qualify to receive the MPEG2 channels from there.

So, theoretically, I could have my service address changed to my dad's place near Phoenix, and receive the Phoenix HD locals here in Tucson? Interesting...

Would I need the 5-LNB dish? But that wouldn't work with my HD-DVR, would it?

So, theoretically, I could have my service address changed to my dad's place near Phoenix, and receive the Phoenix HD locals here in Tucson? Interesting...

Would I need the 5-LNB dish? But that wouldn't work with my HD-DVR, would it?
I sure would love to have a confirmation on that, i've looked all over but couldn't find anything, maybe I'm searching for the wrong thing.

Yes, you would need the 5-LNB.

I sure would love to have a confirmation on that, i've looked all over but couldn't find anything, maybe I'm searching for the wrong thing.

Yes, you would need the 5-LNB.
Has there been any confirmation of anyone using the 5-LNB dish with the HR10-250?

You can use the 5LNB on the HR10-250 but it won't give you the Phoenix locals as those are using MPEG 4 (HR10-250 can only decode MPEG 2). You will be able to see the HD channels using their newer HD receiver and you can record them when the new DVR comes out sometime in the fall.

So, theoretically, I could have my service address changed to my dad's place near Phoenix, and receive the Phoenix HD locals here in Tucson? Interesting...

Would I need the 5-LNB dish? But that wouldn't work with my HD-DVR, would it?
In theory that works. But you will need the 5LNB and DTV will not install that in Tucson until Tucson MPEG4 locals are lit up. Unless you want to buy one yourself and installed it yourself, I can't see how you'll get DTV to do it.

Oh, also the HR10 will work with the 5LNB dish, but will obviously not record any MPEG4 signals.

If you request Fox Sports AZ in HD, they will install the 5LNB with the H20. Then wait a few weeks and move to Phoenix.

If you request Fox Sports AZ in HD, they will install the 5LNB with the H20. Then wait a few weeks and move to Phoenix.
But Wolffpack has a good point, you would have to install it yourself in Tucson. I wish I knew how easy/difficult it would be to install the 5-LNB.

But Wolffpack has a good point, you would have to install it yourself in Tucson. I wish I knew how easy/difficult it would be to install the 5-LNB.
Actually I think qworkman has it nailed. In Tucson you order the sports pack or whatever provides Fox Sports AZ and you want it in HD. That would require DTV to install the 5LNB and would also require you have a H20 HD receiver. Then you could "move" to Phoenix and with the spot beam I would guess get HD locals via the 5LNB down a bit further south.

Actually I think qworkman has it nailed. In Tucson you order the sports pack or whatever provides Fox Sports AZ and you want it in HD. That would require DTV to install the 5LNB and would also require you have a H20 HD receiver. Then you could "move" to Phoenix and with the spot beam I would guess get HD locals via the 5LNB down a bit further south.
Maybe I am not understanding this correctly? Why would D* install the 5LNB with the H20 in Tucson, if you cannot receive anything with it, yet. I would think that they would deny the request, since they do not offer those 2 items in Tucson?

If I am missing something, I really would like to know, because I am in the perfect situation to get this going.

Maybe I am not understanding this correctly? Why would D* install the 5LNB with the H20 in Tucson, if you cannot receive anything with it, yet. I would think that they would deny the request, since they do not offer those 2 items in Tucson?

If I am missing something, I really would like to know, because I am in the perfect situation to get this going.
If you subscribe to the sports pack (or TCP) and HD you would be entitled to FSAZ in Tucson as your regional sport network and would also be entitled to their HD feed which is only available via MPEG4. Thus you would need the H20 and 5LNB in Tucson to receive this channel you subscribe to.

Fox Sports Arizona HD just went live a couple of weeks ago. Tucson residents qualify for this programming with a Total Choice package. A call to DirecTV will get the ball rolling, and you may have to sub to the HD pack to get a deal. I've seen posts of folks who get the upgrade for free and others who pay a nominal fee. Tucson does qualify for the HD upgrade (dish/receiver) to get FSAZ HD.

Fox Sports Arizona HD just went live a couple of weeks ago.
I did not know that, thanks.

A few months ago, I sent a message to Erin White who is supposedly the contact at the Star about TV/Radio. I asked how come the TV listings they get from the Tribune Co. do not have HD designators for those programs that are in HD. I know that the Tribune Co. has that info and does provide it.

The result? No answer. And so my point is that by not listing this info, the average consumer is not even aware that HD programming exists locally. And if they did know, wouldn't the pressure on the cable providers increase enough to get the "deal" done??

Tony

We currently have only one cable line to where we have our HD-DVR through DirecTV installed. The installer would have helped line another cable, except that it is difficult - the TV is on an interior wall with no easy access to from the exterior walls - it's sort of an island.

Anyone have any suggestions as to someone in the Tucson area to contact to help figure out a way to get a line or two there?

Thanks.

Packfan

Try Jon at Audio Video Specialists, 520-850-3439.. I have used him several times and highly recommend him.. He is also very reasonable pricewise..

bob w