Those of you in Northeastern PA and Northwestern New Jersey who struggle to get a consistent signal out of WPVI-DT in Philadelphia will be happy to read this. I picked this up off of the WNEP website (the ABC affiliate in Scranton):

-----
April 9 - Installation of our digital transmitter antenna is currently taking place. We expect it to take the rest of the week to install and then a few days to test. This all depends on the weather. If the weather is bad, it may be delayed by a few days. We hope to begin our digital transmissions on or about April 18th.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June.
-----

There's more info at http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=709353 if you're interested.

i can't wait!!

Its too bad the other stations in the scranton \ wilkes-barre location have filed for CP extensions for "financial" reasons! (wyou and wbre)

Great!
Can you tell me if the signal will reach Sussex, NJ? I'm situated on the west side of a hill with open air to the west. Also, what would be the best antenna to pull in a good signal from this distance?

Com1mph,
I'd bet you'll be fine. I'm in eastern Warren County, with a ChannelMaster UHF on my roof and I get all the Scranton analogs without a problem. Get the right antenna, and you should be in business.

Cool!!
Have any of you had luck receiving WCAU-DT (NBC affiliate in Philadelphia) ?
Vas

Yes, I generally get WCAU-DT at about a 40-50 signal strength. KYW-DT is by far the most reliable- 100% all the time. Last night was unusual- for some reason WCAU was coming in at 100%.

I don't get too worked up about a strong WCAU, however, since NBC has pretty paltry HD offerings. We'll all be better off when WNEP-DT goes live, given ABC's commitment to HD.

NBC says they'll offer more HD content this fall, so I'm hoping the Scranton NBC affiliate has their act together by then.

WNEP-DT Status Report...

April 18 - Weather and other problems have slightly delayed the installation of our digital antenna. Most of the work is being done at night. The antenna itself is up. We expect it to take a few more days to install the transmission line going up the tower to the antenna (assuming no weather delays). Then we will run some tests for a few days. We hope to begin our digital transmissions on or about April 29th.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June.

Weather delays???? It's been sunny and 85-90 degrees all week!

I guess I should be grateful- not only is WNEP good enough not to file for FCC extensions, they've also managed to give weekly updates on their installation on the website. Still, it's hard to believe that weather is holding them back at this point.

WCAU-DT seems to have boosted their signal. My Dish 6000 is suddenly detecting it, along with WHYY-DT. has anyone noticed a difference?

Yes, I've had a much easier time picking up WCAU for the past week, and wasn't sure whether it was due to atmospherical conditions. I still can't get WHYY, however.

BTW, WNEP posted a new update today on their site. They're still plagued with weather delays as they need winds under 10 mph to run their transmission lines to their mountaintop site. They now say they hope to begin broadcasting in the next couple of weeks.

Check out the note at www.wnep.com

April 23 - Weather continues to delay the installation of our digital antenna. Most of the work is being done at night. The antenna itself is up. Now we have to install the transmission line running up the tower to the antenna. For this we need winds of less than 10 mph. That is difficult to get on the top of a mountain. Once the line is installed, we will run some tests for a few days. We hope to begin our digital transmissions within the next few weeks, but with the weather like it is, its hard to estimate exactly when that will happen.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June

PaulM9999,
Must me atmospheric conditions, I lost the WCAU-DT signal again last night.
vas

WNEP filed for an extension today according to the FCC website

note from WNEP's website
April 30 - The weather over the past two weeks has been just horrible for tower-work! We keep hoping for light winds so we can continue the installation, but the weather just isn't cooperating. Unfortunately this week's weather doesn't look much better.

The antenna itself is up (see photo from Skycam 16 ). Now we have to install the transmission line running up the tower to the antenna. For this we need winds of less than 10 mph at night (our crew can only work at night). We need only 2 more calm nights to install the line. Once the line is installed, we will run some tests for a few days and then start transmitting. We hope to begin our digital transmissions within the next few weeks, but with the weather like it is, its hard to estimate exactly when that will happen.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June.

from WNEP's website - DTV status

May 2 - OK! The transmission line is up and secured. The antenna itself is also up. Now we just have to do some wrap-up work, making sure all the connections are right. And we have to climb the tower one more time to set a beacon light and to remove the crane (see photo from Skycam 16). This will take one more night of light winds. Then we will be able to begin testing. Hopefully this will happen in the next few days (weather permitting).

While we are testing you may from time to time be able to get our digital signal. We will be testing at rather low power so if you live more than say 10 or 20 miles from the transmitter, you may not see anything. If you already have a digital TV receiver, you can help by e-mailing us and telling us exactly where you are located, what time you saw our broadcast, what type of equipment you were using, and how it looked. Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com . Our digital signal will be on channel 49.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June.

This is great news- and it sounds like we should be able to see evidence of testing sometime next week. Weather today has not been favorable, and tomorrow's forecast calls for high winds. They might not be able to do the remaining tower work until early next week.

copy of email from WNEP today (5/6/02) regarding DTV

"We're hoping to throw the switch Tuesday afternoon."



From the WNEP website

May 6 - OK! The transmission line is up and secured. The antenna itself is also up. The crane is down (see photo from Skycam 16). On Wednesday we are scheduled to do a final check on all the systems. If everything checks out well, we will be ready to do power up the transmitter for some test broadcasts.

We will likely do several days of test broadcasts before we begin regular programming. While we are testing you may from time to time be able to get our digital signal. We will be testing at rather low power so if you live more than say 10 or 20 miles from the transmitter, you may not see anything. If you already have a digital TV receiver, you can help by e-mailing us and telling us exactly where you are located, what time you saw our broadcast, what type of equipment you were using, and how it looked. Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com . Our digital signal will be on channel 49.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June.
:D :D

i emailed the webmaster after not finding their signal last night

received this info:

Try again tonight. We weren't on last night. :-)

Mark Sowers
Webmaster
WNEP-TV


ok another webpage update.... were getting closer!!

May 8 - Today we will do a final check on all the systems. If everything checks out well, we will be ready to do power up the transmitter for some digital broadcasts. Those broadcasts could start as early as this evening . Over the next several days those broadcasts will be considered "test" broadcasts even though they will be very similar to what we will do after the "test" is over. You may notice some glitches. If you do, please let us know. Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com .

For the next several months our digital transmitter will operate only during Prime-Time and other big events. And it will operate at low power (city-grade). It is simply too expensive to operate all day long and at high power with so few people actually able to get the signal. We don't know for sure just how far from our transmitter this low-power signal will be available. We're guessing if you live more than say 10 or 20 miles from the transmitter, you may not see anything.

If you already have a digital TV receiver, you can help by e-mailing us and telling us exactly where you are located, what time you saw our broadcast, what type of equipment you were using, and how it looked. We will use this information to publish a "coverage map". Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com . Our digital signal will be on channel 49.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June.

As with the rest of this digital transition, each phase requires additional equipment and expense, so we are slowly phasing in the whole HDTV experience. We thank you for your feedback and your patience.

nothing yet.... but still closer i say!!!
from the wnep website

May 9 - Well, we finally completed the installation of WNEP-DT yesterday. Everything appeared to be ready. We threw the switch and started broadcasting... "black"... nothing more. That's when we discovered that we were having a problem getting our video signal into the transmitter. We are currently working on the problem and hope to have it corrected soon.

Once we get this problem fixed, we will begin test broadcasting. You may notice some glitches. If you do, please let us know. Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com .

For the next several months our digital transmitter will operate only during Prime-Time and other big events. And it will operate at low power (city-grade). It is simply too expensive to operate all day long and at high power with so few people actually able to get the signal. We don't know for sure just how far from our transmitter this low-power signal will be available. We're guessing if you live more than say 10 or 20 miles from the transmitter, you may not see anything.

If you already have a digital TV receiver, you can help by e-mailing us and telling us exactly where you are located, what time you saw our broadcast, what type of equipment you were using, and how it looked. We will use this information to publish a "coverage map". Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com . Our digital signal will be on channel 49

DWMoss,
Are you inside the 20 mile radius of the station that it sounds like will be necessary to receive the broadcasts? I'm about 40 miles away, so I'm not sure I'll see the tests.
Paul

Paul

i'm about 20km from the tower, which is what about 12.4 miles away.
i didn't look for the signal last night. But at least its a step in the
right direction. Lets see by June if WNEP is broadcasting ABC in HD or 720p during primetime.

on another note i've been harassing the other local stations WYOU and WBRE in particular and received this email responce yesterday.....



Thanks for inquiring.
Right now we are looking at July for both WBRE and WYOU.
--- Barry

Barry Erick CSTE , CE
Nexstar Broadcasting
WBRE-TV (NBC) providing services for WYOU-TV (CBS)
62 S. Franklin St.
Wilkes-Barre, PA 18701
570-823.2828
570-823.4523 (fax)
berick@nbga.net
berick@wbretv.com
berick@wyou.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sue Kalinowski
To: John Dittmeier
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 11:28 AM
Subject: Fw: DTV


Hi John....
Can you supply this viewer with an answer.....and copy me on it? That way I can get it into the Public File----and know your reply for future references.
Thanks!
Susan

----- Original Message -----
From: David W. Moss
To: suekali@wyou.com
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 11:33 AM
Subject: DTV


Dear Sue,

I was just wondering what WYOU's status is as far as DTV (digital television broadcasting)
I know you filed a CP Extension with the FCC prior to the May 1st deadline. I was just wondering
when i might be able to receive digital broadcasts from WYOU. Right now only WVIA is broadcasting
but WNEP is just about to go online.

All the Best,

David W. Moss

I haven't check it out yet... but heres the wnep website update


May 14 - We finally completed the installation of WNEP-DT on Wednesday May 8th. Now we enter the "testing" phase. Last night we got our first pictures on the air with two channels of video, 49-1 and 49-2. There were a few pixelization and sound problems that we are currently working on.

As we continue our testing, you may notice some glitches. If you do, please let us know. Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com .

For the next several months our digital transmitter will operate only during Prime-Time and other big events. And it will operate at low power (city-grade). It is simply too expensive to operate all day long and at high power with so few people actually able to get the signal. We don't know for sure just how far from our transmitter this low-power signal will be available. We're guessing if you live more than say 10 or 20 miles from the transmitter, you may not see anything. So far we have had people in Hanover Twp., Trucksville, and Avoca get our signal.

If you already have a digital TV receiver, you can help by e-mailing us and telling us exactly where you are located, what time you saw our broadcast, what type of equipment you were using, and how it looked. We will use this information to publish a "coverage map". Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com . Our digital signal will be on channel 49.

Our first digital broadcasts will be in standard definition. Basically we will digitize our current signal and broadcast that. We won't be able to broadcast ABC Prime-Time Programming in high definition until our satellite receivers are retrofit to pick up those signals from ABC. The engineers from ABC are scheduled to be here to do this in late May. It will take several days to install this upgrade and a few more to test it. We hope to begin HDTV transmissions sometime in June.

As with the rest of this digital transition, each phase requires additional equipment and expense, so we are slowly phasing in the whole HDTV experience. We thank you for your feedback and your patience.

You're gonna think I'm crazy, but...

Last night, in Reading, PA (about 75 air miles SSW from the tower), I received WNEP-DT with a solid 80-90% signal strength. There was no apparent multipath problems but a great deal of digital breakup and audio dropout. Since the signal is so solid, I’m assuming that the breakup is due to processing at the station while they undergo testing and alignment.

Equipment:

Dish Network Model 6000 receiver
Channel Master CM4248 Yagi, mounted ~ 30’ above ground
Winegard AP4800 28db UHF amplifier.

Interestingly, I also receive WVIA-DT with an even stronger signal. It's almost like I have a pipe to NE PA. I've received WVIA consistently for almost a year, so I'm pretty certain that it's not some odd atmospheric condition that's helping the reception.

Did anyone else receive WNEP last night, and did you experience any breakup? I'd like to be sure that the problem was their processing and not reception difficulty. Does anyone know if they're running at reduced or full power during the testing? Their website doesn't specify this.

I reported the reception to WNEP; I'll report if I get a reply.

drbaldinger,
I'm in Rahway, NJ and I have the same setup as you,
minus the amplifier.
I am wondering if I would be able to receive this station.
Where abouts are you?

Thanks,
R

wnep is broadcasting at low power levels during primetime only

i looked last night and i was only receiving a very low signal with lots of breakup, while WVIA-DT was coming in great...

Baldinger/Moss-
Are you guys pointing your antenna in the same direction as WVIA? I'm intrigued by the reception carrying all the way to Reading- this makes me feel much more optimistic (I'm about 50 miles from Scranton as the crow flies)

I'm getting 80-100% on WVIA, and I get an excellent picture on WNEP analog, but I'm getting no evidence of WNEP-DT either last night or tonight.

Paul,

My antenna is pointing in the same direction as WVIA. I can actually improve the signal by about 5% if I move the antenna about three degrees north of WVIA's setting, but with the strong signal that I have now it just wasn't worth the effort of moving the antenna each time I switch channels. I am also getting excellent reception of their analog signal.

Yesterday afternoon, Wednesday, 1711 hrs., I had a rock-solid 88% signal with color bars and tone and the 16 DTV logo on subchannel 1. There was only slight, occasional pixellization...nice and clean compared to Tuesday, when there was a lot of breakup. They must have done some adjustments to their encoder.

The folks at WNEP are pretty intrigued by my reception, too. I got an e-mail from their webmaster asking for details about my setup because they found my reception "unbelievable". They thought that I must have a huge antenna on a tall tower to be able to receive them but, as the equipment list in my previous post demonstrates, my setup is pretty ordinary.

Good luck with your attempt to receive WNEP; I hope that you're able to get it working. I know how you feel since this is the first time that I'm able to get an ABC affiliate - I can't get anything but KYW out of Philadelphia.

Please feel free to PM me if you want further information.

Dave

i'll have to take another look at WNEP-DT's signal tonight.

I'm surprised your getting it down in reading. I'm alot closer then that to the tower but not receiving a decent signal. maybe some of the adjustments they made will help me.... i'm only about 12 miles away... but i'm up on the mountain, probably the same elevation as the tower so maybe that part of my problems.... but i doubt it because WVIA-DT comes in strong....


question: my hughes E86 is mapping WVIA-DT as channel 80-3 what about everyone else who is able to receive WVIA-DT... whats your channel mapping too??

Yep, 80-3 on Dish 6000.

Paul,

Check channel 49 on your ANALOG receiver and see if you can see NJN. They have a repeater in Hackettstown, but it's not always on. This could hose some people in NW NJ.

email received from WNEP today (5/18/02)

FYI, Our digital signal is on right now (1:45pm) and will remain on for the
rest of the day.

Mark Sowers
Webmaster
WNEP-TV


also here's a link to the picture of their tower right NEXT to WVIA's
http://208.199.73.40/fungames/wallpaper/details.php?image=penobscott&size=4

DrB thanks for the confirmation on the mapping at 80-3 for WVIA

On my DST-3000 WVIA maps to 80-3.

Thanks for the tip on the Hackettstown repeater for NJN, but I get nothing on channel 49- I'm 2 miles away from Hackettstown, so you'd think rabbit ears would work- but nothing.

Guys-
Is WNEP-DT mapping to 16-1 or elsewhere?

WNEP-DT is mapping to 49-1 on my Dish 6000.

90% signal tonight in Reading, with no artifacts.

WNEP is also using 49-2 although their website status report stated they are working on 49-2 now

Oh well, I guess I'm out of luck until they loosen the purse strings and increase power. I tried at about the same time that drbaldinger was getting 90%, and the best I could do was 10%.

Here's the latest:

August 2 - WNEP is pleased to announce that we are now broadcasting our digital TV signal at full power! This means if you were not able to get our digital signal before, you may be able to get it now. While we were at low power, most of our digital viewers were in either Lackawanna or Luzerne counties. This increase in power should make our digital signal available to much more of our viewing area. So we are again asking for reception reports, especially from areas outside Lackawanna and Luzerne counties. If you can get our digital signal, please let us know where you are located and what type of receiver and what type of antenna (i.e. rabbit ears, roof-mounted, signal amplifier, etc) you are using. Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com .

We are still trying to get some equipment installed that will allow us to broadcast Dolby 5.1 audio. Hopefully we will install it in the next week or so.

Any word on WYOU or WBRE?

The latest:

August 15 - We have two improvements to your viewing experience to announce. 1) Dolby Digital 5.1 audio is now available. 2) We have increased the sharpness of our standard-definition video.

We are still waiting on reception reports from outside Luzerne and Lackawanna Counties. Doesn't anyone out there have a digital receiver? So we want to try something different. If you have a receiver and CAN'T get our signal, we'd like to know. Please let us know where you are located and what type of receiver and what type of antenna (i.e. rabbit ears, roof-mounted, signal amplifier, etc) you are using. Just e-mail webmaster@wnep.com . We might have some ideas that will help you get our signal.

I also emailed them to check on the status of other local stations. It looks like, but not confirmed, that the rest of the locals will be doing the bare minimum. The smallest antennas possible, and probably only a digital version of the current signal. It doesn't look good. As for Adelphia carrying HDTV, keep dreaming. Maybe in 2-3 years we will see that. It's not looking good for NEPA and HDTV.

Jeff

this is a copy of the email I sent WNEP after watching the monday night football game on 9/9. the webmaster, mark sowers, took my email and added his comments to the end of each point.

a day after this responce he emailed me to tell me the engineers fixed the lip synch problem...

David,

1. The sound seemed delayed slightly throughout the broadcast. The lips were moving slightly ahead of voices. It was really bad but it was noticeable, not just by me but others watching the show. I'll let our engineers know.

2. Did you increase you power in the last few weeks. I was previously having problems receiving your signal but after trying again in the last week, I found I had no problem picking your DTV signal up! I was glad to find that out!! Yes we did. We are now at full power. :-)

3. The Monday Night Football game last night was broadcast on 16-1 with the black side bars. After reading your website's page on the WNEP-DT technical details I found:

"Channel 16-1: Channel 16-1 is now all widescreen (16:9), all the time. Some shows are in High Definition and some are not. Those that are in HDTV will be in 720p format. Any ABC shows not in HDTV (like "20/20") will be in 480p widescreen (16:9) format. All WNEP or syndicated shows (like Newswatch 16, Hollywood Squares, and Inside Edition) will not be in High Definition, but they will be upconverted from analog to the 720p format. These shows will have the black bars on the sides. Many prime-time commercials will be handled the same way. High-Definition and widescreen programming will only appear on 16-1."

this would indicate that last night for MNF you upconverted an analog signal to the 720p format. I enjoyed the image but I am curious if you are currently receiving the digital signal in 720p from ABC yet? I believe MNF is sent to us in 480p widescreen. ABC adds the black bars themselves. Imagine how much better it would look in High Def.

4. What shows from ABC are you showing in the 720p format that are NOT unconverted? What primetime shows from ABC will NOT have the black side bars? All SCRIPTED programs, like sit-coms and dramas, are in 720p High Def. Reality shows, news, or sports are in 480p.

5. I noticed you do have a transparent logo next to ABC's transparent logo. Thanks for making it transparent!!!! I did notice the standard opaque logo on 16-2, do you have any plans on changing this? It's not a big deal, most of my time watching will be on 16-1 but it is nice to have 16-2 there to catch up on the news at any time and not just at the standard times. I'll let our engineers know.

6. If I have any questions/problems during 16-1 broadcasting time, is there a phone number I can call to talk a live person? I've read a lot of horror stories, about stations "forgetting to flip the switch" regarding HDTV broadcasting. People calling up the station and informing them that the signal they are receiving is an upconvert and not the pass through from the network. For instance, if I would of called last night, would an engineer been able to "throw the switch" and then I could have had the widescreen version of MNF without the black side bars. You can call the newsroom, and they can transfer you to the engineer on duty. But I don't think you will have a problem. Our system is automated to take ABC's digital feed whenever it's available. We only up-convert when the digital feed is in black.

Mark Sowers
Webmaster
WNEP-TV

I was thrilled to see the news about WNEP going full power, but I'm still only getting a 10% signal strength on their station. WVIA is a solid 100%, so I wonder if they're only full-power on a part-time basis, and I'm tuned in at the wrong time? (I tried at 10:45 PM on 9/12.)

You can watch 16-3 now too! It is the live doplar radar. I was waiting for that and love the feature. I say hell with Adelphia now.

Jeff

Originally posted by PaulM9999
I was thrilled to see the news about WNEP going full power, but I'm still only getting a 10% signal strength on their station. WVIA is a solid 100%, so I wonder if they're only full-power on a part-time basis, and I'm tuned in at the wrong time? (I tried at 10:45 PM on 9/12.)

I live in the Lehigh Valley area in Pennsylvania and experience the same situation.
WVIA is 100% while I cannot pick up WNEP at all!!!!

We have the same situation at the Circuit City that I work at. The only way we are able to get WNEP's signal is to use a powered antenna. The unpowered will not pick it up, but will pick up WVIA's fine. Did anyone try a powered antenna?

Jeff

Jeff,
Do you work at the Dickson City store? If so you should have no reception problem as you can see the tower from the parking lot. I know that at Sears they have no problem receiving the DTV signal from us.

- Stu -
Senior Engineer
WNEP-TV

Stu,
Yes I do work at the Dickson City store. We use two Zeniths, one 4:3 and one 16:9, both of which have HD tuners built in. The 4:3 has a pair of rabbit ears on it. The 16:9 and a powered bow tie antenna on it. I compared the signal strengths on both sets using WVIA's signal. They both show about 66% signal strength. The WNEP signal shows about the same with the powered antenna, and 0% on the rabbit ears. I am assuming that the steel structure of the building is what is messing the signal up. If you have any suggestions that might help the reception, please let me know.

While we are on the subject of the signal, when will you be broadcasting it outside of prime time. Could you maybe start by expanding it to 5pm to midnight? I know that it takes quite a bit of money to have it transmitting so I'll suggest small steps first.

The last thing I wanted it mention is that the WNEP signal seems to have a noticeable amount of noise in picture when compared to the WVIA signal. It may be the TV and/or turner. I haven't had a chance to compare it on any other TV's or tuners. Maybe others could comment on what they think.

Jeff

Jeff,
I was assuming that the store was using an external antenna. Definately need that for it to work properly. Also RF reflections can be as bad as a weak signal - something you're going to get a lot of in the building. I noticed that the in-store RF system needs work. I was there today looking at RPTV's and thought the signal was noisey on all of them.

To answer your video noise question, with HDTV it's either going to be noise free or no signal at all. If the signal is marginal you'll get pixelation. It is possible to see noise on upconverted analog. Do you notice the noise in the video during the 720p transmissions?

Unfortunately where I live I cannot get any TV, digital or analog. I installed that system but have not seen a single byte of the HDTV transmission during primetime. I have to rely on the viewers (via Mark our webmaster) to find out how it is performing.

And finally, we are definately expanding the hours. We will be full time by April 1st or earlier. We may start transmitting at 6pm within the next few weeks. I'll get back to you on that. If you need a test during the day I can turn it on for a few hours.

Glad you like the radar. I put that up last week just to test the encoders third channel. I'll leave it up.

- Stu -

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
We have the same situation at the Circuit City that I work at. The only way we are able to get WNEP's signal is to use a powered antenna. The unpowered will not pick it up, but will pick up WVIA's fine. Did anyone try a powered antenna?

Jeff

I have a CM 4228 antenna with a CM 7777 preamp mounted on a rotor and pickup up nothing from WNEP.

Bob

Hi Bob,
Do you know your lat/long? I'd like to plot your location on the map and look at the terrain. We have viewers in Reading and I know of one in King of Prussia.

- Stu -

Stu,
If you mean external as in outside, no we don't. The antennas sit on top of the TV's. The TV's look bad because of the video distribution system. Very few TV's have their on satellite receiver. Most receivers are running at least a half dozen TV's.

Maybe a better way to put the noise I was seeing in the picture would be to say that it looked like it was compressed to much, leading to grainy picture. I noticed it on the 720p transmissions. The upconverts looked good. I am assuming that the more channels you add, the more compressed the 720p transmissions have to be to fit all the information into the specified bandwidth. Like I said last time, it might be the TV and tuner causing the problem.

I'm surprised that you can't receive even analog where you are. I'm only a few miles closer to the towers and I get a picture that is better than Adelphia's. I use an antenna in my attic that is run directly from it in to the TV via 75ohm coaxial cable. It looks like I have no problem with the digital channels either. I'll have to wait until the holidays to find out. That's when I'll have getting the new HDTV.

I'm glad to see the hours being expanded. I was wondering primarily because the hockey games start at about 7 and the signal doesn't go on until 8. I guess that you answered my question. Maybe you could turn the signal on during the day only on Saturday and Sunday. Monday through Friday during the day are not needed yet.

Thank you for leaving the radar up. I was in a dilemma about what to do about going to satellite and dropping cable. I would loose channel 63 and the live radar. That solved my problem.

The biggest question I have left doesn't pertain to WNEP. It has to do with the other local affiliates. Do you know when they will start broadcasting digitally. Noticed I didn't say in HDTV, since Mark mentioned that they may just digitize their analog signal and pass it on. That would be very disappointing given CBS's commitment to HDTV broadcasting. WYOU and WBRE are almost the same network I believe. Is it possible for them to use the same tower to save on costs and possibly putting that savings towards going to HD broadcasts? It's frustrating thinking that I would put all of this money into the TV and satellite, and not be able to watch any of the programming that CBS has to offer.

Thanks for your time and information,
Jeff

Hi, Stu!

I haven't posted on this for a while because there has been nothing new to report.

FYI, still getting a 90-95% signal in Reading, PA with:

Dish Network Model 6000 receiver
Channel Master CM4248 Yagi, mounted ~ 30’ above ground
Winegard AP4800 28db UHF amplifier

Are you sure you don't have a direct pipe to Reading? :D

Dave

Originally posted by swilson
Hi Bob,
Do you know your lat/long? I'd like to plot your location on the map and look at the terrain. We have viewers in Reading and I know of one in King of Prussia.

- Stu -

Stu.

Coordinates for my address are as follows:

Lat: 40:42:29.797N or 40.708277

Lon: 75:20:0.949W or -75.333597

Thanks,

Bob

Thanks Bob, I am on vacation this week. When I get back to work on Monday, assuming not too much is broken, I'll plot your position and overlay the antenna pattern and see what kind of signal you should be receiving.
Also, I setup a new email account, hdtv@wnep.com, that viewers can send hdtv related comments to. Those messages go directly to my mail box and 2 others in the engineering department.

- Stu -

Originally posted by drbaldinger
Hi, Stu!

I haven't posted on this for a while because there has been nothing new to report.

FYI, still getting a 90-95% signal in Reading, PA with:

Dish Network Model 6000 receiver
Channel Master CM4248 Yagi, mounted ~ 30’ above ground
Winegard AP4800 28db UHF amplifier

Are you sure you don't have a direct pipe to Reading? :D

Dave

Hi Dave,
I must admit I was surprised the first time I heard someone in Reading was receiving us. We've since had reports of others in your area picking us up.
How are the Philly stations received there?

- Stu -

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
If you mean external as in outside, no we don't. The antennas sit on top of the TV's. The TV's look bad because of the video distribution system. Very few TV's have their on satellite receiver. Most receivers are running at least a half dozen TV's.

Maybe a better way to put the noise I was seeing in the picture would be to say that it looked like it was compressed to much, leading to grainy picture. I noticed it on the 720p transmissions. The upconverts looked good. I am assuming that the more channels you add, the more compressed the 720p transmissions have to be to fit all the information into the specified bandwidth. Like I said last time, it might be the TV and tuner causing the problem.

I'm surprised that you can't receive even analog where you are. I'm only a few miles closer to the towers and I get a picture that is better than Adelphia's. I use an antenna in my attic that is run directly from it in to the TV via 75ohm coaxial cable. It looks like I have no problem with the digital channels either. I'll have to wait until the holidays to find out. That's when I'll have getting the new HDTV.

I'm glad to see the hours being expanded. I was wondering primarily because the hockey games start at about 7 and the signal doesn't go on until 8. I guess that you answered my question. Maybe you could turn the signal on during the day only on Saturday and Sunday. Monday through Friday during the day are not needed yet.

Thank you for leaving the radar up. I was in a dilemma about what to do about going to satellite and dropping cable. I would loose channel 63 and the live radar. That solved my problem.

The biggest question I have left doesn't pertain to WNEP. It has to do with the other local affiliates. Do you know when they will start broadcasting digitally. Noticed I didn't say in HDTV, since Mark mentioned that they may just digitize their analog signal and pass it on. That would be very disappointing given CBS's commitment to HDTV broadcasting. WYOU and WBRE are almost the same network I believe. Is it possible for them to use the same tower to save on costs and possibly putting that savings towards going to HD broadcasts? It's frustrating thinking that I would put all of this money into the TV and satellite, and not be able to watch any of the programming that CBS has to offer.

Thanks for your time and information,
Jeff

I'm really surprised that a store that is attempting to sell digital receivers doesn't have a decent antenna system (external). Oh well!

Let's try an experiment next week with the noise you see in the 720p video. On Tuesday I will remove the SD channels and use the entire bandwidth for the HD channel. Let me know by sending an email to hdtv@wnep.com if it looks better or worse. If it is better I will tweak the encoder and see if I can clean it up a bit when encoding SD channels.

The hockey games....You are talking about the Penguins?? If so the DTV transmitter will definately be on! It's the only way to get a return feed to the Arena for the "talent" to monitor the commercial inserts. They will also be on Adelphia 63 in full screen mode.

And finally, as far as the other stations, I don't know what they are doing. As of last week I didn't notice any construction up there. Legally all they have to do is be on the air by November 1st and if they choose, run upconverted analog. If I hear something I'll let you know.

BTW: I installed Dolby equipment 2 weeks ago. Have you watched any ABC movies or sitcoms on 5.1? Curious how it sounds....

- Stu -

Stu,
I am disappointed with Circuit City's use of local HDTV content. I am trying to get them to use more of it on more TV's. Slowly, I think I am winning.

If I am not working next Tuesday, I guess I will have to stop at work for a couple minutes and look at the picture quality. I hope it's the TV or tuner causing the noise. I love the idea of having 3 channels in one.

Yes I was talking about the Penguins games. Can't wait to see them broadcast.

I'll keep my fingers crossed about the other local affiliates. I have a feeling that they might not be as receptive to HDTV as you have been.

I haven't had a chance to hear any of the Dolby Digital on the channel yet. I have all the equipment for it, except the HDTV and tuner. Like I said, at Christmas time, I will be able to answer that one. At Circuit City, we don't have any surround sound systems hooked up to the HDTV tuner. I should push for that too.

Thanks,
Jeff

Thanks to Stu , Jeff, and Mark Sowers for your high level of communication on the evolution of WNEP-DT. Your participation in this forum and the frequent updates over the summer on your web page have been greatly appreciated.

I've e-mailed the station wondering why I get such 100% signal strength on WVIA-DT, and 0-10% on WNEP-DT. According to Mark, WVIA has a second "inductive output tube" which helps improve transmission. Until WNEP upgrades, I'm probably out of luck. This might explain to those in the Lehigh Valley why they can't get WNEP.

It's been a tough week for me to receive WPVI-DT, so I'm longing for the day when I can get my ABC fix from Scranton. In the meantime, I'll have to continue living with WNEP's analog signal, which comes in beautifully here in the hills of Northwestern Jersey.

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
I am disappointed with Circuit City's use of local HDTV content. I am trying to get them to use more of it on more TV's. Slowly, I think I am winning.

If I am not working next Tuesday, I guess I will have to stop at work for a couple minutes and look at the picture quality. I hope it's the TV or tuner causing the noise. I love the idea of having 3 channels in one.

Yes I was talking about the Penguins games. Can't wait to see them broadcast.

I'll keep my fingers crossed about the other local affiliates. I have a feeling that they might not be as receptive to HDTV as you have been.

I haven't had a chance to hear any of the Dolby Digital on the channel yet. I have all the equipment for it, except the HDTV and tuner. Like I said, at Christmas time, I will be able to answer that one. At Circuit City, we don't have any surround sound systems hooked up to the HDTV tuner. I should push for that too.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,
I assumed you had a HDTV tuner at home. What is a good day to run the test? I work 5am to about 3pm M-F. If you work day side I could easily turn the transmitter on at anytime. If you work evenings then I'll run it the entire night with the HD channel only.

If it is determined that the extra compression is causing the problem, I should be able clean it up.

- Stu -

Originally posted by PaulM9999
Thanks to Jeff and Mark Sowers for your high level of communication on the evolution of WNEP-DT. Your participation in this forum and the frequent updates over the summer on your web page have been greatly appreciated.

I've e-mailed the station wondering why I get such 100% signal strength on WVIA-DT, and 0-10% on WNEP-DT. According to Mark, WVIA has a second "inductive output tube" which helps improve transmission. Until WNEP upgrades, I'm probably out of luck. This might explain to those in the Lehigh Valley why they can't get WNEP.

It's been a tough week for me to receive WPVI-DT, so I'm longing for the day when I can get my ABC fix from Scranton. In the meantime, I'll have to continue living with WNEP's analog signal, which comes in beautifully here in the hills of Northwestern Jersey.

Paul,
WVIA is running twice the power we are and operating a completely different type antenna. The design pattern of our antenna is such that it should very closely resemble our analog signal in WNEP's market.

And in case you are wondering, the 100kw power level limit was assigned to us by the FCC. We are more than likely going to apply for a power increase and we can do that without adding a cabinet to the transmitter. Right now the transmitter outputs 7.5kw to make 100kw at the antenna. The current system can support 17.5kw. So running the transmitter at 15kw effectively doubles the power. So don't give up hope yet!!!

Like I said in a previous post, when I get back to work next week I'll look at the pattern from the antenna manufacturer and see if you are supposed to get a signal where you are.

- Stu -

Paul,
Thank you for the compliment, if I am indeed the Jeff you are referring too. Either way, I believe that it is Mark and now Stu that deserve the thanking. They both have provided more information than I could have ever imagined.

Stu,
Monday or Thursday would be good. Monday may not be good for you though, since that is your first day back from your week off. You let me know. Also, the more I looked at the picture tonight, the more I think it had to do with the transfer of the material to HDTV. Tonight was a good night for comparing it since there were 3 separate HD programs back to back. It seemed better tonight than when I noticed it before. I think the problem may be my overly picky eyes. If you still would like to experiment, I'm up for it.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by swilson


Hi Dave,
I must admit I was surprised the first time I heard someone in Reading was receiving us. We've since had reports of others in your area picking us up.
How are the Philly stations received there?

- Stu -

Stu,

I would have been surprised, too, except that I receive WVIA-DT very well. What was surprising was receiving you so strongly when you were still on test power.

Philly stations...:(

KYW is pretty good. Solid 80-85% all of the time.
WPVI is sorta/kinda. 60-65%, some dropouts, inconsistent.
WCAU, WHYY, WTXF: Nothing, not a peep. Same for Harrisburg/Lancaster/Lebanon/York/Hershey.

Good to have ABC from you guys! Keep it up.

Thanks very much for joining us on the Forum. It's always good to have industry representatives here.

Need a First Phone with 30+ years experience? :D

Dave

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Paul,
Thank you for the compliment, if I am indeed the Jeff you are referring too. Either way, I believe that it is Mark and now Stu that deserve the thanking. They both have provided more information than I could have ever imagined.

Stu,
Monday or Thursday would be good. Monday may not be good for you though, since that is your first day back from your week off. You let me know. Also, the more I looked at the picture tonight, the more I think it had to do with the transfer of the material to HDTV. Tonight was a good night for comparing it since there were 3 separate HD programs back to back. It seemed better tonight than when I noticed it before. I think the problem may be my overly picky eyes. If you still would like to experiment, I'm up for it.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,
What time frame on Thursday?
- Stu -

Originally posted by drbaldinger


Stu,

I would have been surprised, too, except that I receive WVIA-DT very well. What was surprising was receiving you so strongly when you were still on test power.

Philly stations...:(

KYW is pretty good. Solid 80-85% all of the time.
WPVI is sorta/kinda. 60-65%, some dropouts, inconsistent.
WCAU, WHYY, WTXF: Nothing, not a peep. Same for Harrisburg/Lancaster/Lebanon/York/Hershey.

Good to have ABC from you guys! Keep it up.

Thanks very much for joining us on the Forum. It's always good to have industry representatives here.

Need a First Phone with 30+ years experience? :D

Dave

Thanks for the update. I'll pass this onto management when I get back. I'm going to ask the GM about increasing the hours to at least include the 6pm newscast. By April first we will be full time. I have reports of folks with terrible analog reception but perfect digital. Some are in Pike county where we want to expand viewership.

Do you have 5.1 Dolby capability? I'm curious about sound quality.

- Stu -

P.S. I have a First Phone (now General class) with 20 years experience.

boy.. i don't check the forums for a few days and there's a lot of activity. Its nice to see......

Stu - its great having you here on the forum

I'd definitely be intersted in checking out the testing next week. please just post here so we all can check it out and let you know how it looks and sounds in many different regions.


thanks again
dave

Stu,
Sorry I forgot to mention that. Thursday night I will be there. Hopefully others could join in and provide feedback too. Thursday might be bad because of the programming. I believe that the only HD will be back to back episodes of Push Nevada, which was given a grainy affect when it was produced. We could try it still if you think that it may be worth it. Monday is much better when Drew Carey is on. That's actually the show that I noticed it on first. We may have to wait a week and a half to test since you come back on Monday and will probably be very busy. Let me know.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by dwmoss
boy.. i don't check the forums for a few days and there's a lot of activity. Its nice to see......

Stu - its great having you here on the forum

I'd definitely be intersted in checking out the testing next week. please just post here so we all can check it out and let you know how it looks and sounds in many different regions.


thanks again
dave

Hi Dave,
Next Thursday evening I'll delete the SD channels from the stream and see if that makes a significant difference in the picture quality. I hope not - Jeff needs his radar! :-)

Also, most days, ABC feeds a dolby audio test video loop that I can transmit during the day if anyone wants to test their 5.1 audio setup. It's just a series of tones directed at each indiviual channel with a voice id along with some 720p video.

- Stu -

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
Sorry I forgot to mention that. Thursday night I will be there. Hopefully others could join in and provide feedback too. Thursday might be bad because of the programming. I believe that the only HD will be back to back episodes of Push Nevada, which was given a grainy affect when it was produced. We could try it still if you think that it may be worth it. Monday is much better when Drew Carey is on. That's actually the show that I noticed it on first. We may have to wait a week and a half to test since you come back on Monday and will probably be very busy. Let me know.

Thanks,
Jeff

I was at the store today. Sanford sold me a TV. Anyway, next Thursday I will delete the SD channels and see what happens to quality. Now that you mention it, some HD stuff that was originally shot on film may have the grainy look. Maybe that's what you see??? The sitcoms are video.
Maybe we'll do Wednesday and Thursday without 16-2 and 16-3.

- Stu -

Stu,

I'd definitely be intersted in having some times when to examine the ABC feeds of the dolby audio test video loop

i work 9-5, what is your definiton of "during the day"?

also by next thurday you are refering to 9/25 and not tomorrow, right?

thanks in advance
dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

I'd definitely be intersted in having some times when to examine the ABC feeds of the dolby audio test video loop

i work 9-5, what is your definiton of "during the day"?

also by next thurday you are refering to 9/25 and not tomorrow, right?

thanks in advance
dave

Dave,
ABC feeds the test usually on Tuesday through Thursday from 10am to around 2pm. I realize you work then but if you ever get one of those days off either call me at the station or send me email at hdtv@wnep.com.

I'll do the HD only test next Wednesday and Thursday during primetime. My reason for doing it is to see if adding the addtional SD channels impacts the HD channel. For those evenings I'll setup the encoder to use the entire 19.39 stream for HD. 16-2 and 16-3 will not air those nights.

- Stu -

Originally posted by swilson
Thanks Bob, I am on vacation this week. When I get back to work on Monday, assuming not too much is broken, I'll plot your position and overlay the antenna pattern and see what kind of signal you should be receiving.
- Stu -

Stu,
Any update on this?
Thanks,
Bob

Stu,
Do you think Mark should post something on the website about the testing on Wednesday and Thursday. Those who watch the HDTV signal probably learned about it from the website. If there was a problem, I would think that would be the first place they would go to notify you of the problem. It's just an idea. What do you think?

Jeff

Jeff like your idea on info on the website

Stu,
I'm looking forward to the testing tonight and tomorrow


dave

Originally posted by rjruby


Stu,
Any update on this?
Thanks,
Bob

Hi Bob,
I started working on this and hit a snag. The antenna does not have a north orientation like I expected. Even though it is omnidirectional, it like all broadcast antennas will have null patterns that are noticeable in the fringe areas. I have the calculated pattern but since there is no reference for the antenna mounting, I cannot plot it on a map with any accuracy.

There is a way around that. For a signal test I want to use the station helicopter and fly in at a 15 mile radius around the tower while taking signal strength measurements. I want to get that done before the snow flys.

I'm still puzzled why you don't get a hint of us and a 100 with wvia.

- Stu -

Just wanted to pass along some info...

Tonight and tomorrow (9-25 and 9-26) we will be encoding only the HD channel. The goal is to see if the increased compression caused by the SD channels impacts the HD.

Beginning tonight, the HDTV transmitter will be put on air at 6pm nightly. This is a permanent change.

Got this from ABC today:


Dear ABC Affiliate:

ABC Television Network president Alex Wallau announced today that the most-watched and highest-profile sporting events of the year, including the Super Bowl, games of the National Basketball Association finals and the Stanley Cup, will be broadcast in HDTV on ABC this season. In addition ABC announced that it will broadcast the 2003-2004 season of “Monday Night Football” in HDTV.



“Live sporting events provide the best platform to showcase the dramatic benefits of high definition television,” said Mr. Wallau. “We’re delighted to broadcast these sporting events in HDTV, including the most-watched television event of the year, the Super Bowl.”



ABC currently broadcasts the majority of its primetime schedule, including all of its scripted dramas, comedies and theatrical movies, in HDTV. The 2002-03 primetime HDTV broadcasts, sponsored by Zenith Electronics Corporation, include the new programs “8 Simple Rules for Dating My Teenage Daughter,” “Life with Bonnie,” “Push, Nevada,” “MDs,” “That Was Then” and “Less Than Perfect.” These programs join such ABC stalwarts as “NYPD Blue” and “The Practice” in high definition, bringing the Network’s total HDTV primetime broadcasts to more than 13 hours per week.



ABC was the first major network to broadcast in HDTV, beginning in November 1998, and it is the only major broadcast network currently airing its HD programming in Dolby Digital 5.1-channel surround sound. All of ABC’s programs will use 720 Progressive (720P), ABC’s selected HDTV format.



In September 2001 ABC made a major commitment to HDTV programming when it began broadcasting the majority of its schedule in HDTV, including all of its scripted primetime comedy and drama series, as well as all theatrical movies. For the 2001-02 broadcast season, ABC broadcast more than 260 hours of HDTV programming, and the Network plans to broadcast even more hours in HD this season.



ABC began broadcasting high-definition television, including Dolby Digital 5.1-channel surround sound, beginning on November 1, 1998, with the theatrical presentation of “The Wonderful World of Disney: 101 Dalmatians.” Since then ABC has broadcast many other theatricals in HDTV, as well as numerous sporting events. Those include the first live, regularly scheduled HDTV sporting event in primetime, the 1999-2000 season of “Monday Night Football.” ABC has also broadcast “Super Bowl XXXIV” and the “2000 National Hockey League All-Star Game” in HDTV. Currently 64 of ABC’s owned and affiliated stations are broadcasting digital TV, covering 63% of the nation, with 48 of those stations broadcasting in HDTV.



ABC will air Super Bowl XXXVII on January 26, 2003, from San Diego, CA. The NBA finals are scheduled for June 4-18, 2003, and the Stanley Cup for May 31-June 9, 2003.

Stu,
I can't believe the news! This and the ESPN news may just pushing me over the edge into buying a HDTV. Also, thanks for turning the signal on at 6. Now we have more time to show it off at CC.

And now to the main question, how does the picture look tonight? I didn't have a chance to see it. I will tomorrow though. Everyone fill me in!!

Jeff

Another small update for us. TitanTV is now showing the ABC HD schedule. That only took months for them to update their site. They list 16-1 and 16-2. Also, they are now showing that CBS will be live on October 8th. That would mean NBC would be up too since I believe they are owned and operated by the same company. Maybe Stu could fill us in a little on that one.

Jeff

checked out the signal last night.....

looked real nice to me... but my frame of reference isn't the best
(hard to compare to previous by memory)

I did notice a few satellite like drop outs (pixelation) that I'm assuming was from the orignal abc feed to wnep

dobly digital in 5.1 was really nice....

one quick question....
i noticed that 16-1 , 16-2 , and 16-3 all were showing the 720p signal, were the channel numbers remapped? for the test? i was expecting to only see 16-1 and that 16-2 and 16-3 would be off during the test.

also glad to see the permanent change to turning the signal on a 6pm daily!!!

and i'm so, so, so thankful that WNEP is on the air now, with the Super bowl and NHL stanley cup finals going to be presented in 720p!!!!
woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Another small update for us. TitanTV is now showing the ABC HD schedule. That only took months for them to update their site. They list 16-1 and 16-2. Also, they are now showing that CBS will be live on October 8th. That would mean NBC would be up too since I believe they are owned and operated by the same company. Maybe Stu could fill us in a little on that one.

Jeff

I complained to them (Titantv) last week about the lack of wnep-dt programming. I haven't checked but it should have a schedule from 4pm on. I'll check when I save this.

I'm going up to the transmitter tomorrow to do a fiber upgrade. I'll check for any new construction or antennas.

- Stu -

Originally posted by dwmoss
checked out the signal last night.....

looked real nice to me... but my frame of reference isn't the best
(hard to compare to previous by memory)

I did notice a few satellite like drop outs (pixelation) that I'm assuming was from the orignal abc feed to wnep

dobly digital in 5.1 was really nice....

one quick question....
i noticed that 16-1 , 16-2 , and 16-3 all were showing the 720p signal, were the channel numbers remapped? for the test? i was expecting to only see 16-1 and that 16-2 and 16-3 would be off during the test.

also glad to see the permanent change to turning the signal on a 6pm daily!!!

and i'm so, so, so thankful that WNEP is on the air now, with the Super bowl and NHL stanley cup finals going to be presented in 720p!!!!
woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's good news Dave that it was hard to see a difference from multi to single channel stream. I've been getting numerous reports about the great audio quality also.

I am not sending epg information for 16-2 and 16-3. Some receivers will still think it's there until you "auto-program" it again. Tonight try auto programming your receiver and the 16-2 and 16-3 should go away.
Let me know...

- Stu -

stu,

i have a hughes e86 STB and just was surprised that when i tuned to 16-2 and 16-3 that it showed the same as 16-1...

maybe i'll rescan tonight, but not really a concern, just wanted to let you know what i saw....

dave

Stu,
I got to see the beginning of Push Nevada tonight. I'd say that it looked pretty close to the way it looked last week. I know that was a long time ago, but I didn't notice anything drastic. It looks like 16-2 and 16-3 are ago, at least for me.

I noticed between 8 and 9 that the ABC test signal was being broadcast. What happened to the upconverts? I guess it had something to do with our testing.

This is a crazy idea, but can you broadcast two 720p signals at the same time? I could really use ESPN in April. It'll never happen, but it's a neat idea.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
I got to see the beginning of Push Nevada tonight. I'd say that it looked pretty close to the way it looked last week. I know that was a long time ago, but I didn't notice anything drastic. It looks like 16-2 and 16-3 are ago, at least for me.

I noticed between 8 and 9 that the ABC test signal was being broadcast. What happened to the upconverts? I guess it had something to do with our testing.

This is a crazy idea, but can you broadcast two 720p signals at the same time? I could really use ESPN in April. It'll never happen, but it's a neat idea.

Jeff

Someone told me about that this morning. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of the problem between 8 and 9 last night. The automation switched to the ABC HD feed and wasn't supposed to. Can't get an answer as to why no one at the station noticed and corrected it. The test loop you saw runs when ABC doesn't have a HD signal. If something like that happens again, please call the station and complain.

And yes, it is possible to encode 2 HD channels. It's a matter of adding an addtional HD card to the frame at a cost of several thousand dollars!

- Stu -

Originally posted by dwmoss
stu,

i have a hughes e86 STB and just was surprised that when i tuned to 16-2 and 16-3 that it showed the same as 16-1...

maybe i'll rescan tonight, but not really a concern, just wanted to let you know what i saw....

dave

I put 16-2 and 16-3 back on today.

- Stu -

Stu,


Over the last two days or so, I've notice that the upconverted material on 16-1 seems to have black horizontal lines on the left and right side of the image just before the gray side bars.

Were these there before and I just didn't notice them? Also a few days ago it appeared as if these black lines (outline??) were thicker on one side then the other? I didn't notice the thickness difference last night, but I was just wondering what these bars were and if they always been there and I only noticed recently.

dave moss

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,


Over the last two days or so, I've notice that the upconverted material on 16-1 seems to have black horizontal lines on the left and right side of the image just before the gray side bars.

Were these there before and I just didn't notice them? Also a few days ago it appeared as if these black lines (outline??) were thicker on one side then the other? I didn't notice the thickness difference last night, but I was just wondering what these bars were and if they always been there and I only noticed recently.

dave moss

I was wondering if anyone was going to notice that. Up until earlier this week there was black from picture to edge. I added the grey sidepanels to help prevent burn in on crt's. The problem is that the blanking on the ntsc is slightly wider and creates the black vertical lines on each side.

I'll make it all black now, like it used to be until I figure how to fix the blanking problem.

- Stu -

Stu,
I can now comment on the HD reception. I got a Hipix card for me computer. I just got it in today and I didn't get a chance to see any HD content from ABC yet, but I did see some on PBS. I am getting a signal strength of about 83 on your HD feed and 73 on the PBS feed. The upconverts looked great. I can't wait for Toy Story on Sunday. That should be unreal. Now I need a HDTV!!

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
I can now comment on the HD reception. I got a Hipix card for me computer. I just got it in today and I didn't get a chance to see any HD content from ABC yet, but I did see some on PBS. I am getting a signal strength of about 83 on your HD feed and 73 on the PBS feed. The upconverts looked great. I can't wait for Toy Story on Sunday. That should be unreal. Now I need a HDTV!!

Jeff

Jeff,
What part of Archbald do you live?
- Stu -

Stu,
I am on Laurel St., right next to the baseball-soccer field. My backyard is about 50 feet from the river, so I'm pretty much as low as you can go. My antenna is fairly large and it is mounted in my attic. I'd say about 30 feet up. It's not powered or anything like that. Just out from the antenna and split once. One goes to the computer and one downstairs to the current big screen, hopefully soon to be replaced with an HD big screen. I know you didn't ask for the antenna info., but it may help in plotting out a map of the reception area. Let me know if you need more info.

One other small question, what are PBS's broadcasting times? I think it's 10am to midnight, but correct if I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
I am on Laurel St., right next to the baseball-soccer field. My backyard is about 50 feet from the river, so I'm pretty much as low as you can go. My antenna is fairly large and it is mounted in my attic. I'd say about 30 feet up. It's not powered or anything like that. Just out from the antenna and split once. One goes to the computer and one downstairs to the current big screen, hopefully soon to be replaced with an HD big screen. I know you didn't ask for the antenna info., but it may help in plotting out a map of the reception area. Let me know if you need more info.

One other small question, what are PBS's broadcasting times? I think it's 10am to midnight, but correct if I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Jeff

I'm in the Woodlands section of Jermyn and get nothing but ghosty pictures. The hill that Valley View HS sits on is what degrades my TV and FM reception. Several years ago I borrowed a large Channel Master parabolic antenna and the signals weren't much better. I actually get decent pictures from Binghamton if I turn the antenna north. Luckily I have superb cable service From Adams.

PBS hours I think are from 7am to midnight but I have never seen that to be consistant. I don't see anything on thier web site about it.

Thanks for the location update!

- Stu -

Stu,
I was watching the HD feed for the first time last night. There was a small problem with it. There was a green line on the right side on the very edge. It was flickering thoughout the whole night and was distracting. Another thing I noticed about it was when the feed switched over to local channels, there was a pop and the line was gone. Once the national feed came back, there was a pop and the green line came back. I replied to one of the Toy Story threads about it, but no one noticed the line I guess. Everyone said it looked great. Could it have been WNEP's equipment causing it? Maybe Dave could help us out. Or maybe he couldn't? I am assuming that if you watched the feed on a TV, you would not see it due to overscan. I mean it was the very, very edge. I could see it because on the computer monitor, there is actually a small amount of black along each side before the picture begins. It gives me true edge to edge.

I took your advice and called the station when I first saw it. I tried the engineering department, but no one answered. I left Mike a voicemail explaining what I saw, but not with as much detain as I have here. I hope it's not always like that because it really distracting you from the otherwise flawless picture. Let me know if I'll crazy, picky, or right!

One last thing, is it normal to experience more pixelation and audio dropouts at night? Your feed seems to do it more that PBS's. Do you think some kind of Channel Master preamp or distribution amp would help?

Jeff

Jeff,

Sorry I didn't watch Toy Story yesterday, so I can't comment
on the "thin green line". I do notice pixelation on the WNEP feed,
more often then I would expect. I only have a Radio Shack
Double Bow tie but i get a 100% signal received at my Hughes
E86 receiver in Thornhurst.

Stu,

See we are watching and paying attention out here!! I didn't mind the gray bars on the side, it was just the "thin black bars" immediately
next to the gray bars that were distracting. I'd perfer gray bars without the thin black lines!! =) Picky aren't we?

What are channel 16-1 broadcasting hours on the weekends. I was hoping to watch the PSU game on 16-1 but it wasn't there at the beginning. I noticed the end of the game it was on, maybe I should
of rechecked sooner. =)

Stu,
The green line was there again, but only during Drew Carey. It's not there right now during MNF. I have included a shot from Toy Story to show. It's on the right side and it's tiny. It's not the size, but the flicker that's distracting.

The dropouts could be a problem. They seem quite frequent, even though the signal is locked in the low 80's.

Jeff

i'd agree about too many drop outs...

i was seeing a number of them again last night on MNF
I rechecked my signal and it was usually at 100 but would
drop down to a min. of 93.

Jeff, did you ask around or search on this problem in the computer hdtv section here at AVSForum?

I haven't seen the green line in your image posted on my screen, but i'm looking at it on a rear projection unit

Anyone from central new jersey getting this feed? (08902)

My coords are 40:26:04N 74:29:23W

I can't get my RCA DTC100 (CM 4248) to pick up any of these channels. Am I too far away?

thanks guys,

Jim

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
I was watching the HD feed for the first time last night. There was a small problem with it. There was a green line on the right side on the very edge. It was flickering thoughout the whole night and was distracting. Another thing I noticed about it was when the feed switched over to local channels, there was a pop and the line was gone. Once the national feed came back, there was a pop and the green line came back. I replied to one of the Toy Story threads about it, but no one noticed the line I guess. Everyone said it looked great. Could it have been WNEP's equipment causing it? Maybe Dave could help us out. Or maybe he couldn't? I am assuming that if you watched the feed on a TV, you would not see it due to overscan. I mean it was the very, very edge. I could see it because on the computer monitor, there is actually a small amount of black along each side before the picture begins. It gives me true edge to edge.

I took your advice and called the station when I first saw it. I tried the engineering department, but no one answered. I left Mike a voicemail explaining what I saw, but not with as much detain as I have here. I hope it's not always like that because it really distracting you from the otherwise flawless picture. Let me know if I'll crazy, picky, or right!

One last thing, is it normal to experience more pixelation and audio dropouts at night? Your feed seems to do it more that PBS's. Do you think some kind of Channel Master preamp or distribution amp would help?

Jeff

Jeff,
I'll look into the green bar problem tomorrow. I don't have a PC tuner card there but do have a Sony HD monitor with an underscan button. I'll look for it during the daily ABC test and report back.

Mike told me you called. Have me paged if it's before 2pm.

As far as the pixelation, I would definately look at putting your antenna outside before purchasing a preamp. The roof definately attenuates the signal and once you get snow or ice on it, forget it.

- Stu -

Originally posted by dwmoss
Jeff,

Sorry I didn't watch Toy Story yesterday, so I can't comment
on the "thin green line". I do notice pixelation on the WNEP feed,
more often then I would expect. I only have a Radio Shack
Double Bow tie but i get a 100% signal received at my Hughes
E86 receiver in Thornhurst.

Stu,

See we are watching and paying attention out here!! I didn't mind the gray bars on the side, it was just the "thin black bars" immediately
next to the gray bars that were distracting. I'd perfer gray bars without the thin black lines!! =) Picky aren't we?

What are channel 16-1 broadcasting hours on the weekends. I was hoping to watch the PSU game on 16-1 but it wasn't there at the beginning. I noticed the end of the game it was on, maybe I should
of rechecked sooner. =)

Hi Dave,
I'm checking to see if I can run the grey sidepanels *and* eliminate the black lines. I've been busy with other projects and haven't had much time to tinker with it. I know what causes it, just need to decide if I should tackle it on the analog or digital side.

The weekend hours are the same as weekday - 6pm to midnight.

BTW: Today we decided to move the Penguins hockey replays from Saturday and Sunday to Tuesday and Thursday evenings.

- Stu -

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,
The green line was there again, but only during Drew Carey. It's not there right now during MNF. I have included a shot from Toy Story to show. It's on the right side and it's tiny. It's not the size, but the flicker that's distracting.

The dropouts could be a problem. They seem quite frequent, even though the signal is locked in the low 80's.

Jeff

Thanks for the frame grab! I will fix this problem for you.

- Stu -

Originally posted by dwmoss
i'd agree about too many drop outs...

i was seeing a number of them again last night on MNF
I rechecked my signal and it was usually at 100 but would
drop down to a min. of 93.

Jeff, did you ask around or search on this problem in the computer hdtv section here at AVSForum?

I haven't seen the green line in your image posted on my screen, but i'm looking at it on a rear projection unit

Jeff/Dave:
Tonight I have someone watching the off-air feed at the studio looking for abnormailities in the pic/sound. This will help me determine if we are transmitting the problem or it's simply a reception problem.
I will report back here.

- Stu -

Stu,

thanks for all the help and informatin you've been providing.
is there anybody we can formally request to turn the signal
on earlier in the weekends?

Also, i'm confused about the baby penguins games.
your website states that you'll be showing 25 games
on adelphia 63 (no help) and 16-2 (yeah!)
for instance one of those is tonights (10/10) game

will you be showing the list of 25 games Live or are they all going to be replays?

thanks again
dave

Jeff: did you check out the forums here for you htpc card and the green line?

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

thanks for all the help and informatin you've been providing.
is there anybody we can formally request to turn the signal
on earlier in the weekends?

Also, i'm confused about the baby penguins games.
your website states that you'll be showing 25 games
on adelphia 63 (no help) and 16-2 (yeah!)
for instance one of those is tonights (10/10) game

will you be showing the list of 25 games Live or are they all going to be replays?

thanks again
dave

Jeff: did you check out the forums here for you htpc card and the green line?

Dave,
All 25 games will be broadcast LIVE on 16-2 and Adelphia 63. Each of those 25 games will also be replayed at a later time. Currently the rebroadcast plan looks like this:

Games broadcasted live on Thursday nights will playback the following Tuesday evening. The Saturday games will playback on the following Thursday. Games played on Wednesdays playback the next day.

Did that answer your question?

- Stu -

Dave/Jeff:
I was able to clearly see the green vertical bar during the HD broadcasts on a underscanned Sony HDTV monitor today. I wasn't able to tweak it out so I called the encoder support folks and they acknowledge the problem. A fix is being developed but no one could tell me when to expect it. For now we need to live with it.

Secondly, the 16-1 signal was monitored closely last night from 8:30pm to about 10pm. There were no video pixelation problems at all, however there were several occurances of audio dropouts. I'm investigating to see if they are coming in from ABC or a problem in the path to the transmitter.

Just wanted to keep you up to date.....

- Stu -

Stu,
Thanks for the update. It makes me feel better that I'm not crazy and seeing things. I hope the encoder company gets a fix out before the SuperBowl. That's going to be my HD demo day to the family.

The pixelation is very rare on any given night. I assumed it was my reception causing it. The audio did worry be though. There is rarely a visual sign that there is a reception problem. Tonight it seemed more frequent than any other night. I happened I'd say every few minutes. Not good.

The upconverts of the local news look great, especially the content coming right from the studio. Sometimes that look a little washed out, but I think that's because I'm used to the HD content.

Now for the really, really picky stuff. Mark posted the 16-2 and 16-3 are 480p. My Hipix card says that it is 480i. It don't think it really makes a difference, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.

I think that I've become to critical, so I'll stop now.


Dave, I did search around some on the Hipix. I didn't see anything about a green line. It does turn out that I was right on. It's a scary thing. I do agree with you that the signal should be on sooner on the weekend, but we don't have to pay the bill so I guess we'll leave that to Stu.

Jeff

One last thing I forgot to mention. TitanTV has WYOU listed as October 21st now. Since the 8th it was listed as Under Review. What would Under Review mean? The equipment is in and being tested or they are filing for another extension?

Jeff

I got to listen to the Dolby Digital track last night on Enemy of the State. It sounded great. So did my recording of Toy Story 2. The only bad thing was the dropouts. Hopefully that can be resolved soon.

Jeff

WBRE also says 10/21 on TitanTV. They're digital feed is on Channel 13- anyone see any signs of testing yet?

Paul,
WBRE will be on channel 11. CBS is WYOU. I haven't seen any testing, but then again, I haven't been looking. The original date was the 8th, but got pushed back. I wouldn't be surprised if it got pushed back again.

Jeff

i have an email responce from WBRE and WYOU indicating that whenever they do finally get around to broadcasting digitally they will only be upconverting their current signal and not giving us the hdtv from CBS or NBC until pigs fly or something to that effect. :D

well ok, maybe not that long but they did take a dig at WNEP and all the money they have to spend!!

I'll post it here from home some evening

dave

ps. come on how about those saturday afternoon college football games making it onto 16-1 .... please, please, please

Dave,
You're lucky. I never got a response from them on their HD status. It's no surprise that they will only be upconverting. They have no money. Their local broadcasting is pretty crappy when you compare them to WNEP. I guess the only thing I can ask is, did they give a date of when they will begin? TitanTV has the 21st, assuming it is correct.

Jeff

Their financial condition is pretty apparent when you watch their local news and check out their website. WNEP's constant website communication and quality of local programming is far superior. Guess we'll have to hope we can get WCAU-DT with more reliability for our NBC HD viewing once they upgrade their power.

Paul,
Where is WCAU out of? I may need to move and/or upgrade my antenna to get it. I would really love to get CBS too. I think 90-100 miles in just too far to get reception from any other major city. It's a major dilemma.

Jeff

Jeff,

did stu fix the green line for you yet???

dave

Dave,
Yes and no. He did look into it and found that I was right on with the overscan issue and not being able to see it on a normal TV. He contacted the encoder company about the problem and they acknowledged that it is a known problem. They have a fix in the works, but no date as of when it will be in. Stu also said that he is looking into the sound dropout problem.

I wonder where Stu has been lately? He hasn't posted anything in almost a week now. Hope everything is OK.

Jeff

Jeff,

Maybe he has to get some work done, besides giving us the info on WNEP-DT. For instance, I'm hoping he's so busy, trying to talk them into broadcasting earlier on Saturdays for the NCAA football games or maybe he's trying to get WNEP to buy some HD cameras for broadcasting the baby pens games!!

Dave
:D

Dave,
I'm hoping that he is busy trying to convince WYOU and WBRE to do it right and go HD. Maybe there is a little too much wishful thinking there! I'm sure he's busy doing things that he always had to do before WNEP-DT came along. I'm happy enough that Stu even listens to our concerns. He takes it a step further and acts on them. No other local TV station even comes close to that.

Jeff

Jeff,

I agree, it is very nice to have Stu here as a resources. I watched a little of push, nevada last night and did not see any drop outs occuring. Don't know if it was due to limited viewing on my part, the phase of the moon or something Stu had to do with

dave

Dave,

Hopefully it's Stu tweaking the system. I'll watch some stuff this weekend and see if I notice any dropouts. Hopefully he'll let us know how the situation is going when he drops by again.

Have you seen any testing by WYOU or WBRE? I haven't and don't think we will. I don't think they will be on the air by the 21st like TitanTV has posted. What do you think?

Jeff

Jeff-
WCAU is the NBC affiliate in Philly. I get ABC and CBS regularly, but the signal from WCAU is 10% or less. They are apparently in the process of upgrading their equipment and will be sharing a tower with Fox as well. The upgrade has been reported elsewhere in this forum as on schedule to be done this fall.

Paul,
It looks like WCAU is out of the question for me. That is about 90-100 miles away from where I am. I don't think I will be able to pull any of them in.

Jeff

Jeff-
If you can try tonight, the signals from Philly are particularly strong. I'm getting NBC and Fox at 50%, which is highly unusual for me.

Good luck,
Paul

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Dave,

Hopefully it's Stu tweaking the system. I'll watch some stuff this weekend and see if I notice any dropouts. Hopefully he'll let us know how the situation is going when he drops by again.

Have you seen any testing by WYOU or WBRE? I haven't and don't think we will. I don't think they will be on the air by the 21st like TitanTV has posted. What do you think?

Jeff

I'm back!
Too busy to go on the internet this last week.
This week I changed the fiber emitter and receiver between our 2 buildings at the transmitter. This should cure any dropout problems that we have transmitted. If you see anymore it is a reception or a source (ABC) problem. The fiber units that were in place were designed for RF, not mpeg. They were on loan to us until the manufacturer got the right units.

I'll be up the mountain again this week and I'll look for any new antennas from the Klingons and Romulens and report back.

Paul: What was the email response you got from WBRE/WYOU? Most of the stations in the US will be doing what they plan - simply upconverting the analog.

- Stu -

Originally posted by dwmoss
i have an email responce from WBRE and WYOU indicating that whenever they do finally get around to broadcasting digitally they will only be upconverting their current signal and not giving us the hdtv from CBS or NBC until pigs fly or something to that effect. :D

well ok, maybe not that long but they did take a dig at WNEP and all the money they have to spend!!

I'll post it here from home some evening

dave

ps. come on how about those saturday afternoon college football games making it onto 16-1 .... please, please, please

Dave,
Can you send me that response either here or to hdtv@wnep.com? I'm curious what they said. Also, what time on Saturday do the games start?

- Stu -

Stu,

I'll post the responce here. I'm sure everyone will enjoy it. :D

I'm glad you found something regarding the drop outs.
Thanks again for keeping us up to date with all the info

dave

ps. Some games on saturdays start at 1:00 others at 3:30pm

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

I'll post the responce here. I'm sure everyone will enjoy it. :D

I'm glad you found something regarding the drop outs.
Thanks again for keeping us up to date with all the info

dave

ps. Some games on saturdays start at 1:00 others at 3:30pm

Dave,
I'll see what I can do about getting those games for you. I think we are very close to broadcasting all day.

- Stu -

Originally posted by PaulM9999
WBRE also says 10/21 on TitanTV. They're digital feed is on Channel 13- anyone see any signs of testing yet?

Today (10-21) I observed the antenna installation and it appears like it is complete. Both stations are on the same stack about 3/4 way up WYOU's tower. My guess is that testing should begin at anytime.

- Stu -

ok,
sorry for the delay in posting this....

this email is about 5-6 weeks old now....
i'll send Barry another to find out their current status
I don't know about anyone else but i'm looking forward
to their HDTV pass throughs, not just their DTV

From Sept. 15th
BARRY'S RESPONCE

There is no date for either WBRE or WYOU to start HDTV. This is not required and will depend on the market. No earlier than next year.
Both WBRE and WYOU will be on the air the same day in October. As of yet we are still backordered on the antenna and that may cause it to slide as time is getting near. What we know is all other equipment will be installed and tested on Oct 8th.
The problem with most stations in the nation is which comes first: the chicken or the egg. The market and thus $$ are not there to pay for the multi-million dollar expense and your taxes paid for the Pennsylvania PBS stations to go HDTV, although hardly any programming and nothing but the loop at the Harrisburg station. WNEP has the major backing from their owners, the New York Times. Pax has said no but just lost a waiver request with the FCC. Fox was delaying a year, but the FCC told them this fall.

Me? I have HDTV. I've loved it from first seeing it years ago and seeing the John Glenn space flight live on HDTV next to NTSC would convince anyone. His life was saved by HDTV: The leaky valve that would have caused disaster was found by the scientists watching a HDTV replay the day after and seeing something that not one NASA or regular TV picked up. I saw this during a convention in LA and it was fantastic.

Do enjoy or nice clean SDTV signal next month, and I certainly want to see those HDTV signals come from the equipment we have in our homes. The networks already installed it for both WBRE and WYOU so we do see it at work.
---Barry Erick, CSTE, Chief Engineer
WBRE-TV and WYOU-TV

----- Original Message -----
From: David Moss
To: Barry Erick
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: HDTV


Barry,

Thank you for the responce that WYOU DTV will go on the air around October 8th.
I have a couple more questions for you,

1. At what point will WYOU be sending through HDTV images?

2. At what point will WBRE be broadcasting digitally?

3. At what point will WBRE be sending through HDTV images?

After comparing the DTV signal that WNEP sends out to the cable and OTA analog signal, I am very anxious to be able to watch NBC and CBS offerings and not only ABC and PBS. I am one fan of DTV and can't wait for your stations to get on the ball. I noticed that both WYOU and WBRE had filed CP Extensions with the FCC for financial reasons. Has this situation improved, and do you expect to file another extension prior to the 10/1/02 deadline?


All the Best,

David W. Moss
Thornhurst, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Erick
To: David Moss
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: HDTV


WYOU DTV will go on the air around October 8. But we will not be showing any HDTV items. This will look like the 16-2 side that WNEP has.--- Barry

Barry Erick CSTE , CE
Nexstar Broadcasting
WBRE-TV (NBC) providing services for WYOU-TV (CBS)
62 S. Franklin St.
Wilkes-Barre, PA 18701
570-823.2828
570-823.4523 (fax)
berick@nbga.net
berick@wbretv.com
berick@wyou.com
----- Original Message -----
From: David Moss
To: 22jditt@nbga.net
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 11:45 AM
Subject: HDTV


Dear WYOU,

I am trying to find out the status of your digital broadcasting and progress toward
showing some of the CBS' HDTV offerings available.

I do watch WNEP and WVIA digital offerings and am wondering when you plan on
joining the leaders of the area?

dave moss
thornhurst, pa

Hello,

I have been monitoring this thread. I have HDTV in Harrisburg and setting up same for parents up north. WNEP comes in great there. I really don't have high hopes for local NBC and CBS because the station group, Nexstar, only purchased low power 30kW transmitters for both stations.

The Harrisburg PBS station plays the loop plus HDTV and widescreen programming such as Tracks Ahead, Smart Travels, Nature, etc.

It is a shame since CBS and now NBC are showing HDTV in primetime. They should pass the HDTV feed.

Stu and Dave,

Thanks for the WBRE/WYOU updates. I will be checking the airwaves for their signals. Any idea on their broadcasting times?

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu and Dave,

Thanks for the WBRE/WYOU updates. I will be checking the airwaves for their signals. Any idea on their broadcasting times?

Jeff

Jeff,
The antennas are in position but the transmitters are still in plastic as of yesterday. I don't see it happening sooner than a week from now. No idea on broadcast times.

- Stu -

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Hello,

I have been monitoring this thread. I have HDTV in Harrisburg and setting up same for parents up north. WNEP comes in great there. I really don't have high hopes for local NBC and CBS because the station group, Nexstar, only purchased low power 30kW transmitters for both stations.

The Harrisburg PBS station plays the loop plus HDTV and widescreen programming such as Tracks Ahead, Smart Travels, Nature, etc.

It is a shame since CBS and now NBC are showing HDTV in primetime. They should pass the HDTV feed.

Joe,
What town do your parents live in?

- Stu -
wnep-tv

Stu,

They live very close to Elysburg in Northumberland county.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Stu,

They live very close to Elysburg in Northumberland county.

Thanks Joe. I like to get an idea where the HDTV receivers are and distances from the transmitter. We have at least 2 others in that area who pick us up. We are getting very few reports from the North and I think that is because folks between Scranton and Philly had already purchased HDTV receivers when Philly and Allentown went online.

- Stu -

Stu,

You said that you change to a fiber. Is it possible that it could affect the picture quality? I'm not complaining. It actually looks much better. NYPD Blue looks amazing tonight.

What affiliates are live in Allentown? There wouldn't happen to be a CBS or NBC affiliate online? If so, think we can get it up here? I so bad want to see football and ER in HD.

Jeff

Jeff,

Sorry, no CBS or NBC for you from Allentown.

The two DTs there are WLVT-DT (ch. 62), a PBS affiliate and WFMZ-DT (ch. 46), an indy that runs mostly upconverts.

You might want to take a long shot and look for KYW-DT (ch. 26, CBS) from Philadelphia. They've got a pretty good signal. WCAU-DT, the Philly NBC affiliate, is probably not possible for you as I can't receive them in Reading, a mere 35 miles from the tower.

Thank goodness for WNEP-DT or I wouldn't have ABC...their Philly affiliate doesn't make it to Reading, either.

Dave

Dave,

I read heard that WCAU is upgrading their equipment to a more powerful transmitter. Maybe then you will be able to pick them up.

I doubt that I will be able to get Philly stations though. I'm about 90-100 miles from Philly. I would have to have amazing luck to pull them in.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

You said that you change to a fiber. Is it possible that it could affect the picture quality? I'm not complaining. It actually looks much better. NYPD Blue looks amazing tonight.

What affiliates are live in Allentown? There wouldn't happen to be a CBS or NBC affiliate online? If so, think we can get it up here? I so bad want to see football and ER in HD.

Jeff

Jeff,
It may have an impact on quality. It definately cured the dropout/pixelation problem, as I have seen that problem going into the transmitter before the changeover.

Did find another potential audio/video dropout problem. The Teirnan HDTV decoder that decodes the ABC HD is acting up. It needs to be re-booted almost daily. I'm going to order a replacement this week.

Allentown only has a PBS and independent I believe.

BTW: Mark our webmaster is setting up a HDTV discussion board on wnep.com. I'll let you guys know when it's up.

- Stu -

Here's the latest responce for WYOU and WBRE
I sent Barry another message asking about testing times, so
some of us can check it out. I'll post that responce when
i get it.

dave


----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Erick
To: David Moss
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: HDTV


We are missing one piece of equipment that is needed and were just notified yesterday that it shipped. We now expect to be on sometime next week.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Moss
To: Barry Erick
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: HDTV


Barry,

Any update on your DTV progess with WYOU and WBRE?

All the Best,

David W. Moss
Thornhurst, PA

Stu,

I still get audio dropouts and pixelation. I don't know how to put it, but it's different. Before, the picture would freeze, pixelate, and come back. Now it doesn't freeze. It shows a line of pixelation now and then. The audio dropouts are there, but different too. I'm not even going to try to explain them. I'll probably confuse myself doing it.

The upconverts look much better now. The color saturation is way up.

Please let us know when Mark has the board up. I'll be frequenting there too.

Do you guys have any plans on doing any local HD production? I know that's another massive expense, but it's worth a shot.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

I still get audio dropouts and pixelation. I don't know how to put it, but it's different. Before, the picture would freeze, pixelate, and come back. Now it doesn't freeze. It shows a line of pixelation now and then. The audio dropouts are there, but different too. I'm not even going to try to explain them. I'll probably confuse myself doing it.

The upconverts look much better now. The color saturation is way up.

Please let us know when Mark has the board up. I'll be frequenting there too.

Do you guys have any plans on doing any local HD production? I know that's another massive expense, but it's worth a shot.

Jeff

Jeff,
You may only see those problems during a HD broadcast. Watch between 6 and 8pm and it should be clean. We have other spotters out there watching and all confirm the upconverts are solid. I have a bad decoder on the network side. I'm replacing it asap.

Our studio cameras are capable to shoot 16x9, but in SD only. We are building a new news set and wide screen design is being considered. True HD production is some time off.

- Stu -

Stu,

I will watch the news at 11 tonight. I won't be home before that. Please don't make us beg for a 16:9 newscast. That would be very cool. Please do take it into consideration when planning the new set. Can you, in real time, take the 16:9 signal and crop it to 4:3 for the standard broadcast. I can see that being the only hitch in going to 16:9. I don't think many people would be up for a letterbox presentation of the news.

Jeff

Stu,
Any progress on adding that piece of equipment to the transmitter that will make your signal as strong as WVIA?
Thanks,
Paul

Stu,

I have a volume question for you. The 16-1 station seems to be at a lower volume then most stations. If i'm watching the TV and not using the dolby digital to my receiver (just using the TV's volume). I notice that I must turn the TV volume up much higher for a similar sound level when watching 16-1. That was the case, at least last night.

If I change the channel I'd notice a big, big difference in volume. It reminds me of HDNET having a lower volume that other stations on Directv. This was noticed during your 720p broadcasts (not 6-8) so I'm not sure if it has to do with the same problems with the frequent drop outs I also saw last night.

dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

I have a volume question for you. The 16-1 station seems to be at a lower volume then most stations. If i'm watching the TV and not using the dolby digital to my receiver (just using the TV's volume). I notice that I must turn the TV volume up much higher for a similar sound level when watching 16-1. That was the case, at least last night.

If I change the channel I'd notice a big, big difference in volume. It reminds me of HDNET having a lower volume that other stations on Directv. This was noticed during your 720p broadcasts (not 6-8) so I'm not sure if it has to do with the same problems with the frequent drop outs I also saw last night.

dave

Dave,
I'll fix that.
- Stu -

Originally posted by PaulM9999
Stu,
Any progress on adding that piece of equipment to the transmitter that will make your signal as strong as WVIA?
Thanks,
Paul

Paul,
No sooner than Spring 2003.
- Stu -

Originally posted by swilson
Paul,
No sooner than Spring 2003.
- Stu -

I hope that helps me receive your signal in Nazareth, PA where I cannot pick it up at all now.

Bob

Stu,

What is the new WNEP commercial referring to? It mentions something a new digital WNEP. It wouldn't happen to be anything the lines of digital broadcasting?

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

What is the new WNEP commercial referring to? It mentions something a new digital WNEP. It wouldn't happen to be anything the lines of digital broadcasting?

Jeff

Yes it is. They are having a HDTV kickoff for November. Basically giving away HDTV sets, set top boxes and dvd players.

Since we began operation in May, we haven't mentioned anything on the air about it - only on the web. That changes next month.

Did you watch Backdraft last night? Any dropouts? I changed the network decoder.

- Stu -

Stu,

What does all that mean for HD channels? Can we expect any changes soon? I think it's a nice way to inform the general public about it. People seem to remember things better when it's free. Hopefully it'll spark interest in HD locally. It would be nice to put some pressure on WBRE and WYOU to broadcast HD sooner.

I watched some of Backdraft and recorded the rest of it. I didn't notice any dropouts of the audio alone. I did have a few signal break-ups, but I think that is a reception problem.

Jeff

Stu,

I would think that us early adopters and promoters of WNEP-DT should be given the booty! I'm sure we all could use a new STB or HDTV!! :D

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

What does all that mean for HD channels? Can we expect any changes soon? I think it's a nice way to inform the general public about it. People seem to remember things better when it's free. Hopefully it'll spark interest in HD locally. It would be nice to put some pressure on WBRE and WYOU to broadcast HD sooner.

I watched some of Backdraft and recorded the rest of it. I didn't notice any dropouts of the audio alone. I did have a few signal break-ups, but I think that is a reception problem.

Jeff

What kind of changes were you expecting Jeff? Can't change much more except more hours and that is not far off.

Once we start promoting this, expect more HDTV sales at Circuit City!

- Stu -

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

I would think that us early adopters and promoters of WNEP-DT should be given the booty! I'm sure we all could use a new STB or HDTV!! :D

I agree Dave. It's the pioneers like yourself that we depend on for signal and quality checks, and I very much appreciate it.

Not sure how this contest is going to work, that's a different department, but be sure to enter.

- Stu -

Stu,

I was basically referring to the hours and the possibility of the 16:9 news broadcast. I saw a few of the promotions already. Can't wait until the contests start.

Jeff

Any news on WBRE/WYOU? Today is the deadline for them I believe. I'm patiently waiting though.

Jeff

Barry @ WYOU/WBRE
has not yet responded to my email from 10/23

I'll send another and see if I can get any more info
dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
Barry @ WYOU/WBRE
has not yet responded to my email from 10/23

I'll send another and see if I can get any more info
dave

As of late last week they still had quite a bit of work to go, like maybe another week or so.

- Stu -

stu,

thanks for the info
dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
Barry @ WYOU/WBRE
has not yet responded to my email from 10/23

I'll send another and see if I can get any more info
dave

Dave,
Beginning this weekend the transmitter will be on at noon Saturday and Sunday. I think you were one of the viewers who wanted the College FB on, if I remember correctly????

- Stu -

Stu,

Thats great news!!!
And you are correct, that I'm interested in being able to watch the college football games digitally.

I can't wait until ABC is filming these games in 720p!!

Last night while watching some both George Lopez and the show before it.. forget the names... i again noticed a decreased volume on 16-1.

Using my handy dandy Radio Shack sound level meter I noticed a 4 dB drop on 16-1. This was compared to channel 16 (analog)

thanks again for the football.

Dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

Thats great news!!!
And you are correct, that I'm interested in being able to watch the college football games digitally.

I can't wait until ABC is filming these games in 720p!!

Last night while watching some both George Lopez and the show before it.. forget the names... i again noticed a decreased volume on 16-1.

Using my handy dandy Radio Shack sound level meter I noticed a 4 dB drop on 16-1. This was compared to channel 16 (analog)

thanks again for the football.

Dave

Dave,
Is the ABC HD audio lower or higher than the upconverted audio? I'm getting some equipment that will allow me to better measure the Dolby levels.

- Stu -

stu,

i didn't check the difference in the upconverted audio on 16-1 to the pass through 720p audio on 16-1.

last night the 720p passthrough audio for about 4 dB lower then the analog WNEP. Sorry, I can't stand the bachelor so I was out after Lopez!

I will check out to see if I notice a difference between the upconverted sound and the 720p sound

dave

Stu,

i still have not check for different sound levels between 720p and up-converted on 16-1, but i did want to thank you for getting the DTV transmissions on earlier on the weekends. Last weekend I enjoyed watching the PSU football game on Saturday. I can't wait until ABC puts their HD cameras at the games, so we can have the real deal instead of the up-converts. The up-converts look great, but I know there is room for improvement.

I've been watching the NHL on HDNET lately and every time, I'm just blown away!!

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

i still have not check for different sound levels between 720p and up-converted on 16-1, but i did want to thank you for getting the DTV transmissions on earlier on the weekends. Last weekend I enjoyed watching the PSU football game on Saturday. I can't wait until ABC puts their HD cameras at the games, so we can have the real deal instead of the up-converts. The up-converts look great, but I know there is room for improvement.

I've been watching the NHL on HDNET lately and every time, I'm just blown away!!

Ironic you mention HDNET. On Saturday I installed a triple lnb Directv antenna and connected it to my new RCA HDTV with built in Directv receiver. I've been glued to that channel. I especially enjoy the NHL "sights and sounds" segments without the announcers. It's like being at the game!! Also, Showtime has a HDTV channel, with 5.1, that is free with my package for 3 months. (Channel 543)

On another note...Did you happen to tune into 16-1 Sunday evening? I heard that it was 2 hours of a frozen picture.

- Stu -

Stu
I was watching and it was frozen from at least 10pm to 11pm, I don't know about before or after that. It was a beautiful picture of Snow White, however....;)

Originally posted by lyonsce
Stu
I was watching and it was frozen from at least 10pm to 11pm, I don't know about before or after that. It was a beautiful picture of Snow White, however....;)

I put in remote monitoring today. That should never happen again...

- Stu -

stu,

i find that everything i watch on HDNET just takes my breathe away!! I like how the ABC primetime 720p stuff looks, but the 1080i of HDNET just knocks my socks off. I just get mezmorized watching HDNET!!

Directv also has HBO-HD on 509 you should see if they can't get you a 3 month preview of that as well as showtime on 543

any update on WYOU/WBRE? i still haven't received an email replay from Barry

dmoss

Dave,

Can you get the PBS feed? That's 1080i too without any DirecTV compression. I have noticed what you are referring to also when flipping between WVIA and WNEP. Neither look bad, but WVIA looks better. It must be the lower resolution of 720p causing the difference.


Stu,

I haven't been around lately. Been real busy, so I have to ask a few things to get back up to date.
- How is the "green line" problem coming? Any word from the company on a patch yet?
- TitanTV has the WNEP-DT schedule messed up again. Maybe you could point it out to them again.
- Any decision on a 16:9 news broadcast?
- Will Mark have the board up on the web site soon?
- And the $64,000 question, what is going on with WBRE/WYOU?

That about covers it for now. Glad to see that you decided to get DirecTV. I am patiently waiting for the right timing to take the plunge. Going to need about $3,000 for the TV and satellite receiver, and that's after my discount. I trying everyday that I'm there not to just run over and say I'll take it.

Jeff

Originally posted by dwmoss
stu,

i find that everything i watch on HDNET just takes my breathe away!! I like how the ABC primetime 720p stuff looks, but the 1080i of HDNET just knocks my socks off. I just get mezmorized watching HDNET!!

Directv also has HBO-HD on 509 you should see if they can't get you a 3 month preview of that as well as showtime on 543

any update on WYOU/WBRE? i still haven't received an email replay from Barry

dmoss

Directv is offering free HBO starting Thankgiving day through the weekend. I'll check out their HD channel for sure!!

Haven't heard a thing about WYOU/WBRE.

- Stu -

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Dave,

Can you get the PBS feed? That's 1080i too without any DirecTV compression. I have noticed what you are referring to also when flipping between WVIA and WNEP. Neither look bad, but WVIA looks better. It must be the lower resolution of 720p causing the difference.


Stu,

I haven't been around lately. Been real busy, so I have to ask a few things to get back up to date.
- How is the "green line" problem coming? Any word from the company on a patch yet?
- TitanTV has the WNEP-DT schedule messed up again. Maybe you could point it out to them again.
- Any decision on a 16:9 news broadcast?
- Will Mark have the board up on the web site soon?
- And the $64,000 question, what is going on with WBRE/WYOU?

That about covers it for now. Glad to see that you decided to get DirecTV. I am patiently waiting for the right timing to take the plunge. Going to need about $3,000 for the TV and satellite receiver, and that's after my discount. I trying everyday that I'm there not to just run over and say I'll take it.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Most people cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080i. It's the videophiles like us that can detect it. One of the reasons ABC choose the format was bandwith. If I were to send out a 1080i signal, the SD channels would have to go to make room. (May have room for 1)

To answer your questions in order:

The encoder moves to version 4 sometime in December. That's the only info I can get from the vendor. Don't know for certain that fixes the green line. They couldn't give me a list of bug fixes.

We contacted TitanTV last week about the duplication of 16-1 and 16-2. Thay said it would be fixed by the 15th. Now I see they added 16-2 and 16-3 with no programming. We'll be calling again this week.

16:9 on the newscast won't happen for a while.

I'll ask Mark tomorrow about the discussion board.

I'll find out tomorrow about the progress over at WYOU/WBRE.

Which HDTV systems are you looking at?

- Stu -

Stu,

Thanks for all the updates. I am basically narrowed it down to the Hitachi 51SWX20B (51") for my TV and the Sony HD200 for the DirecTV/OTA receiver. I am sort of happy that it is taking time to come up with the funds because want to see if either DirecTV or Dish will be adding anything new before the end of the year. The rumors of new channels and who will carry them makes me wary of which one to go with. I would like to hear something official before I buy. I am pretty set on the TV, unless I can fit a 57"! I may even plunge for the JVC D-VHS VCR!

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

Thanks for all the updates. I am basically narrowed it down to the Hitachi 51SWX20B (51") for my TV and the Sony HD200 for the DirecTV/OTA receiver. I am sort of happy that it is taking time to come up with the funds because want to see if either DirecTV or Dish will be adding anything new before the end of the year. The rumors of new channels and who will carry them makes me wary of which one to go with. I would like to hear something official before I buy. I am pretty set on the TV, unless I can fit a 57"! I may even plunge for the JVC D-VHS VCR!

Jeff

My wife and I both agreed the Hitachi had the best picture of the rptv's. But it suffered the same effect as all the rest - poor side angle viewing. We couldn't see us and the kids jockeying for center position to watch a movie together. That's why we went the crt route.

- Stu -

stu,

I was watching Monday night football last night. I noticed a large number of pixelation dropouts during the game. Any idea if this is how ABC was sending it to you? I turned the the WVIA 44-1 and did NOT show the same effects. I realise they are at a much higher power then you, but I thought that if I was having problems receiving the signal with my antenna i'd see similar problems with the WVIA feed as I would with yours.

also, any thought if you will try in the future to go to the gray bars instead of the black side bars? I know you tried this before but we had the black line on the edges.

glad to hear that you took the plunge, Jeff - hurry up and pull the trigger!
You'll be glad you did.

still no news on WBRE/WYOU???


dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
stu,

I was watching Monday night football last night. I noticed a large number of pixelation dropouts during the game. Any idea if this is how ABC was sending it to you? I turned the the WVIA 44-1 and did NOT show the same effects. I realise they are at a much higher power then you, but I thought that if I was having problems receiving the signal with my antenna i'd see similar problems with the WVIA feed as I would with yours.

also, any thought if you will try in the future to go to the gray bars instead of the black side bars? I know you tried this before but we had the black line on the edges.

glad to hear that you took the plunge, Jeff - hurry up and pull the trigger!
You'll be glad you did.

still no news on WBRE/WYOU???
dave


Dave,
MFL is sent analog using the same transponder that feeds analog 16, so it is upconverted. I cannot explain the dropouts without being there to track it down. More than likely it was a transmission problem on our end. If you see alot of that Monday thru Friday evenings, call the station and ask for Ted. He can look at it while on the phone with you and confirm if the problem exists with us. He'll give me a report.
I don't have anyone there that can sit and watch a program for a long period of time.

Nothing from wbre/wyou yet.

- Stu -

Stu,

what's the number for the station?

also i'm sure you could pay Jeff or I to be your remote viewers to sit down and watch a program for a period of time! Of course we wouldn't be cheap!!

dave
:D

email received today from Barry Erick regarding WYOU/WBRE DTV broadcasting. I've heard the end of the week comment over 3 weeks ago!!

dave


From: Barry Erick
To: David Moss
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: HDTV


Sorry. there is so much spam these days that a message does get lost at times.
The final part needed is arriving today at the transmitter site. It will take 2 to 3 days to get going, but I expect to be on the air by the end of the week.
--Barry

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

what's the number for the station?

also i'm sure you could pay Jeff or I to be your remote viewers to sit down and watch a program for a period of time! Of course we wouldn't be cheap!!

dave
:D

346-7474 and press 5. You'll get someone in the newsroom. Ask for Ted.

If they would let me pay you guys I would!!

- Stu -

Stu,

I was watching 16-1 on saturday afternoon. First thanks for turning the 16-1 broadcasting on at noon! I enjoyed the coverage. Again, similar comment that I've had before. I noticed alot of drop outs on Saturday. I'll see if it happens again tonight, and if so, i'll give Ted a call.

dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

I was watching 16-1 on saturday afternoon. First thanks for turning the 16-1 broadcasting on at noon! I enjoyed the coverage. Again, similar comment that I've had before. I noticed alot of drop outs on Saturday. I'll see if it happens again tonight, and if so, i'll give Ted a call.

dave

Hi Dave,
No need to call the station. We tracked it down today and probably won't have a fix for a few days or even weeks. After doing some close monitoring today it was determined the microwave link between the studio and transmitter is the culprit. I'll probably end up boosting the power a few db on the link but I want to confirm a few things on the rf path. I'll let you know when I think it's solved.

- Stu -

Stu,

once again you give me good news! I'm glad you found a problem on your end. I'm sure your not glad, but for my sanity, I'm glad you found a problem.

let me know when you think you have the problem licked. until then I won't harass you with my drop out comments!!

Dave,

I've been seeing much of the same. I figured it was the fact the my antenna is in the attic. I'm both glad and not glad to hear that it's on the other end. It seems that we are the only two testers that Stu has. I'd say between the two of us, we do a pretty good job of working out the kinks for everyone else.


Stu and Dave,

The upconverted material on 16-1 looks washed out to me. I have compared it to the cable feed coming in and it looks better than the OTA. Is it me being picky or maybe my Hipix card? Something just doesn't seem right. Can either of you help me out here?

Jeff

Jeff,

I haven't noticed the washed out effect you are seeing.
I don't have the best cable so it's not a fair comparision.

I do find that the upconverted stuff on 16-1 still looks better to me then the cable or OTA of the analog WNEP!

dave

Originally posted by dwmoss
Jeff,

I haven't noticed the washed out effect you are seeing.
I don't have the best cable so it's not a fair comparision.

I do find that the upconverted stuff on 16-1 still looks better to me then the cable or OTA of the analog WNEP!

dave

I know I have the video levels set correctly on the 3 channels. That's an easy thing to do and compare. I did order test equipment to correct the audio differences between channels. Once I have a Dolby 5.1 reference, I'll balance everything out.

- Stu -

Sorry to change the subject guy's, but is anybody having problem's recieving ABC out of philly?I can recieve CBS,NBC,FOX,UPN,WB with no problem's.If I repoint my antenna I can pick up ABC but loose it after awhile.I am using the Samsung SIR T-151.

Thanks, Steve

Stu,

I think I can elaborate my claim some more after tonight. I was watching NYPD Blue. During the commercials, things looked great. Colors were rich. There is an exception though. When the feed went to a local commercial, the washed out look was apparent. After the commercial, everything was back to normal. After a few times of watching it happen, I figured out a common link between the washed out look and the feed. It only happens when the green line disappears. I'm not sure if the national commercials are upconverted by ABC during HD programs or if you do it. The washed out look only seems to be there when the normal analog feed is being upconverted, assuming ABC does the national commercial upconverts during HD programs. The best example of what is going on is during a fade to black between commercials. During an HD program, the fade goes to true black. Between local commercials, it goes to more of a gray. I took notice to this many times to rule out a freak occurrence. I'm not saying that I'm right, but maybe a little more info can point things in the right direction to solving it.

Jeff

Originally posted by SGKishJR
Sorry to change the subject guy's, but is anybody having problem's recieving ABC out of philly?I can recieve CBS,NBC,FOX,UPN,WB with no problem's.If I repoint my antenna I can pick up ABC but loose it after awhile.I am using the Samsung SIR T-151.

Thanks, Steve

No problem in Nazareth, PA.
Watched ABC out of Philly last night from 8P to 10P on my SIRT165 with no problems.

Bob

Thanks for the response rjruby,guess I will be repointing my antenna tonight "hope the snow is melted".What channels are you getting from the Philly area?

Thanks, Steve

Originally posted by SGKishJR
Thanks for the response rjruby,guess I will be repointing my antenna tonight "hope the snow is melted".What channels are you getting from the Philly area?

Thanks, Steve

The following table indicates the digital stations I receive with the signal level on my Dish 6000. Note that WFMZ is relocatiing their antenna and is off the air.

DIGITAL
CHANNEL STATION SIGNAL LEVEL
26 KYW 80%
64 WPVI 80%
67 WCAU 65%
23 WLYH 70%
54 WPHL 85%
42 WTXF 80%
43 WNJT 70%
46 WFMZ 75%
32 WPSG 85%
62 WLVT 75%
41 WVIA 85%
49 WNEP 90%

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

I think I can elaborate my claim some more after tonight. I was watching NYPD Blue. During the commercials, things looked great. Colors were rich. There is an exception though. When the feed went to a local commercial, the washed out look was apparent. After the commercial, everything was back to normal. After a few times of watching it happen, I figured out a common link between the washed out look and the feed. It only happens when the green line disappears. I'm not sure if the national commercials are upconverted by ABC during HD programs or if you do it. The washed out look only seems to be there when the normal analog feed is being upconverted, assuming ABC does the national commercial upconverts during HD programs. The best example of what is going on is during a fade to black between commercials. During an HD program, the fade goes to true black. Between local commercials, it goes to more of a gray. I took notice to this many times to rule out a freak occurrence. I'm not saying that I'm right, but maybe a little more info can point things in the right direction to solving it.

Jeff

Jeff,
Has it always been that way or is this something new? I have not seen it but I can definitely check that tomorrow. I can crush the black levels a bit and see what happens. It should be quiet there tomorrow so I should have time to play with it.

- Stu -

Originally posted by SGKishJR
Sorry to change the subject guy's, but is anybody having problem's recieving ABC out of philly?I can recieve CBS,NBC,FOX,UPN,WB with no problem's.If I repoint my antenna I can pick up ABC but loose it after awhile.I am using the Samsung SIR T-151.

Thanks, Steve

Hi Steve,
I'm not sure of your location but can you pick up the Scranton ABC on 49?

- Stu -

Stu,

It's something that I have noticed since day one. I never really to notice of it because I just figured it was because I was use to watching HD. I'm glad that you will look into it. I also hope I am helping and not just nagging you with little picky problems.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

It's something that I have noticed since day one. I never really to notice of it because I just figured it was because I was use to watching HD. I'm glad that you will look into it. I also hope I am helping and not just nagging you with little picky problems.

Jeff

Hey Jeff,
Check tonight. I spent some time this morning checking the system and the black level on the upconverted video was 5% too high. You should notice a difference now.
Thanks for pointing this stuff out.

- Stu -

Stu,

I caught some time today to see it. I was watching at noon when it was on and then later on tonight too. I guess around noon you were testing. To get to the point, it looked much better on my end. Thanks!

Any word on WBRE/WYOU? Not even a date, just how about if they will ever go digital? It sure is taking a long time to install their transmitters.

Jeff

Hi swilson,
My location is 8 miles south of Easton PA on top of a mountain in Williams Township.I am not sure if I can pick up WNEP, Scranton PA is pretty fair.I once pointed my antenna north and picked up an HDTV loop from a PBS station at 90% sig. but was not sure if it was the Scranton area.I really need an antenna rotor with the antenna I'm using "CM 3023 with 7775 preamp".

Thanks , Steve

Hi rjruby,

What kinda antenna set-up are you using?They are pretty good signal 's for being in Nazareth.Are you at a higher elavation towards Bath?
You are getting better reception that I am from Philly and I am closer to the Roxborough tower's than you. Good job

Thanks ,Steve

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

I caught some time today to see it. I was watching at noon when it was on and then later on tonight too. I guess around noon you were testing. To get to the point, it looked much better on my end. Thanks!

Any word on WBRE/WYOU? Not even a date, just how about if they will ever go digital? It sure is taking a long time to install their transmitters.

Jeff

I did have the transmitter on at noon on Thanksgiving to set those levels. Next time ABC is feeding HD, compare the black levels to the upconverted video and let me know how it is.

Still hear nothing on WBRE/WYOU.

- Stu -

Originally posted by SGKishJR
Hi swilson,
My location is 8 miles south of Easton PA on top of a mountain in Williams Township.I am not sure if I can pick up WNEP, Scranton PA is pretty fair.I once pointed my antenna north and picked up an HDTV loop from a PBS station at 90% sig. but was not sure if it was the Scranton area.I really need an antenna rotor with the antenna I'm using "CM 3023 with 7775 preamp".

Thanks , Steve

Steve,
You could probably pickup WNEP (ABC) on 49. The loop you saw was WVIA on 41. Their transmitter is on the same mountain next to ours.

- Stu -

swilson,

I will swing my antenna north to see if I can pick up WNEP saturday afternoon.I let you know how I made out.


Thank's, Steve

Originally posted by SGKishJR
Hi rjruby,

What kinda antenna set-up are you using?They are pretty good signal 's for being in Nazareth.Are you at a higher elavation towards Bath?
You are getting better reception that I am from Philly and I am closer to the Roxborough tower's than you. Good job

Thanks ,Steve

My physical location is in the development behind the Lower Nazareth Elementary School...near the Newburg Inn.

Bob

It looks like WYOU is up and running. WBRE comes up as being there, but no picture or sound and only comes in at 5%. It's a start and it looks real nice for an upconvert.

Jeff

jeff,

whats the channel for WYOU?

I guess i can find it when I auto scan for the channel....

dave

Dave,

WYOU is on 13 and WBRE is on 11. They both map to their normal channel numbers that we are used to, 22 and 28 respectively. WBRE only comes in at 25-30%, whereas WYOU is at about 50%. I guess they are not splitting the power evenly to each channel. They both are running at 480i and 15Mbps. Both look good for upconverts, especially the local news. They are both live right now at 2pm. Surprised they are on so early. Let us know how the reception is for you.

Jeff

Jeff,

thanks for the information. i'll let everyone know how it looks for me. I'm worried though that it will be a long, long time until WBRE or WYOU will pass through CBS & NBC 1080i signals. I think an email responce from Barry made a comment about a long, long time until they send out a HD signal. I hope i'm wrong!!

dave

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Dave,

WYOU is on 13 and WBRE is on 11. They both map to their normal channel numbers that we are used to, 22 and 28 respectively. WBRE only comes in at 25-30%, whereas WYOU is at about 50%. I guess they are not splitting the power evenly to each channel. They both are running at 480i and 15Mbps. Both look good for upconverts, especially the local news. They are both live right now at 2pm. Surprised they are on so early. Let us know how the reception is for you.

Jeff

I'm disappointed in the fact that WBRE is receiving the analog 28 off-air at the dtv transmitter then upconverting it. If you look closely at any text you will see a ghost.

- Stu -

Stu,

Thanks for the sad news!! Why am I not surprised?? You should consult for them in the evenings and get them setup properly!!

dave
:D

Originally posted by dwmoss
Stu,

Thanks for the sad news!! Why am I not surprised?? You should consult for them in the evenings and get them setup properly!!

dave
:D

I just confirmed my findings since I wrote that message. That is exactly what they are doing. The WYOU picture should be a bit sharper since they can grab that directly off the WYOU STL.

So how are we looking lately? I know the "pixelation" problem still exists but I am actively working on it as time permits. The "black level" problem Jeff noticed is solved. Sometimes the viewers have better eyes than me!!

- Stu -

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Dave,

WYOU is on 13 and WBRE is on 11. They both map to their normal channel numbers that we are used to, 22 and 28 respectively. WBRE only comes in at 25-30%, whereas WYOU is at about 50%. I guess they are not splitting the power evenly to each channel. They both are running at 480i and 15Mbps. Both look good for upconverts, especially the local news. They are both live right now at 2pm. Surprised they are on so early. Let us know how the reception is for you.

Jeff


I'm located in Paupack Township and I can't get WYOU or WBRE to come in at all. The "digital" LED on my SIR-T165 tuner lites up for a second when I tune to either 11 or 13, but then drops back to analog/weak signal. Hopefully they are not running at full power yet; I have the biggest VHF antenna Winegard makes 22' up the mast on top of my roof (+ preamp), and if that doesn't cut it I'm SOL.

Anyone know what's going on with WBRE? It's not there anymore. I get a 5% signal strength. WYOU works fine. Stu, can you enlighten us?

Jeff

Jeff,

You can email Barry @ WBRE/WYOU at berick@nbga.net. He has been very helpful; I emailed him a few times over the weekend and he usually replied within a few hours.

He did say that they are operating at their full allocated power.

-John

Jeff H,

I'm glad your having good luck with Barry. I think i've harassed him enough that he dosen't respond to me in such a timely fashion.

Next time you email him ask him for a time frame on him passing through the 1080i feeds from CBS and NBC!!

Stu,

I haven't looked lately at the 16-1 feed. I've been working on doing a manual convergence on my Sony RPTV and busy with a whole bunch of other things that's prevented me from enjoying 16-1. I know the last time I was watching 16-1 I was so disgusted with the pixelation that I turned it off!!

Dave
:eek:

The problem with WBRE is now fixed. It was the PSIP equipment had gone down, causing my Hipix card to not being able to find WBRE. That didn't solve my problem though. It turns out that the WBRE antenna is mapped toward Wilkes Barre and WYOU is mapped towards Scranton. That would explain why I can't pull WBRE in. I'm disappointed with that.

Another weird phenomenon is that the signal strength on WNEP and WYOU have changed drastically for me. Last night WNEP fell by 20% and WYOU jumped by 15%. Very strange indeed.

One last thing, anyone have a recommendation for an outdoor antenna that can be mounted either on a window sill or on the side of a house? My roof is too high pitched for me to go climbing up on it. I have 2nd and 3rd floor windows that would be much easier to install stuff near.

Thanks,
Jeff

Stu,

i was watching george lopez show last night on 16-1 and things looked ok. Still some pixelation problems but not as bad as the last time I watched and got disgusted.

Jeff W.,

can't help you with antenna choices, i'm using a RS double bowtie, setup outside.

dave

Stu,

Major problems tonight. Pixelation and signal dropouts way beyond acceptable. The signal wasn't on until about 8:15 too. Not sure what was up with that. I called a left a message and it was on 10 minutes later, so I guess that worked. The strangest thing of the night definitely the fluctuation in the signal. It would jump from 75% to 25% and back to 75%. Never had that happen before at any time. Please fill me in on what was going on.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

Major problems tonight. Pixelation and signal dropouts way beyond acceptable. The signal wasn't on until about 8:15 too. Not sure what was up with that. I called a left a message and it was on 10 minutes later, so I guess that worked. The strangest thing of the night definitely the fluctuation in the signal. It would jump from 75% to 25% and back to 75%. Never had that happen before at any time. Please fill me in on what was going on.

Jeff

Jeff,
What night are you talking about here? The transmitter cannot change power like you describe - it has to be a reception problem - probably weather related. I'll find out why it did not come on until 8:15.

- Stu -

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
The problem with WBRE is now fixed. It was the PSIP equipment had gone down, causing my Hipix card to not being able to find WBRE. That didn't solve my problem though. It turns out that the WBRE antenna is mapped toward Wilkes Barre and WYOU is mapped towards Scranton. That would explain why I can't pull WBRE in. I'm disappointed with that.

Another weird phenomenon is that the signal strength on WNEP and WYOU have changed drastically for me. Last night WNEP fell by 20% and WYOU jumped by 15%. Very strange indeed.

One last thing, anyone have a recommendation for an outdoor antenna that can be mounted either on a window sill or on the side of a house? My roof is too high pitched for me to go climbing up on it. I have 2nd and 3rd floor windows that would be much easier to install stuff near.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,
I just saw this message after I wrote the last one. You appear to have an antenna problem since the other stations are changing level also. You really need to move your antenna outside. Attic installations don't work well for obvious reasons. Any UHF/VHF antenna combo is going to be large. Probably too large for a inside window installation. Go to www.channelmaster.com and look at the mounting hardware section. They make eave mounts you can mount on the side of your house or chimney. That may be a better solution for you.

- Stu -

Stu,

I was watching Armageddon last night using. I started out using the built-in tuner on my F38310 and it was dropping out pretty bad, even though the signal meter was indicating it's usual 65-70% strength (I am located in near Lake Wallenpaupack.) I then switched over to my SIR-T165 STB and had no dropouts and very few pixelizing after that.

I did notice however that the commercials seem to be significantly louder than the program material. This must be coming direct off the network feed, because my audio system continues to indicate Dolby-D. (It drops out of Dolby when local program material, i.e. news promo, is presented.

BTW, I taped MD's on the DVHS the other night, and it had almost no blocking/pixelizing during the show. I think things have been looking pretty decent lately on WNEP.

If you get a chance, how about checking out my post at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1639233 and see if you have any thoughts on my VHF reception woes.

-John

Hey Stu,
Im still in high school but was wondering what kind of degrees/experience do you need for a profession in your type of work? It seems very interesting to me.
thanks

I'm sorry for this message which is a bit off topic. I'm relatively new to the HD scene (no pun intended), having bought my HighDef Sat Receiver (Toshiba DST3000) about 6 months ago to accompany my newly built theater. I have to say that I have been more than impressed with the picture quality coming from HDNet, ShowHD and HBOHD.

At the same time, I purchased a Terk 55 OTA antenna. The installers made sure I knew it was directional and that I might not be able to pick up everything that is available in the area (I am in Madison, NJ). As it is, I get Fox out of 2 areas and CBS. I do not get NBC or ABC. I am now thinking about putting the Terk on a rotator so that I can get some more benefit from the OTA signals.

Stu and the rest - I am very impressed by what you are doing at your station and the interaction, reaction and responsiveness you are providing your viewers. I have never seen a broadcaster react to feedback/comments/requests as you are in your constant attempt to improve the HD signals you are providing.

My question is, does anyone know if these signals can be reached as far east as Madison, NJ (07940)? If yes, should I be able to do it with the Terk or do I need a more substantial OTA antenna?

Thanks in advance for the input!

David Steinman

Hi David,

I checked the CEA site at http://www.antennaweb.org, and it does not indicate that you will be able to receive any of the northeast PA stations even with the largest outdoor antenna.

You may need the rotor; The CEA site is indicating transmitters in several different locations. Check out the site and see what stations you want and what direction you need your antenna to face.

-John

Originally posted by swilson
Jeff,
What night are you talking about here? The transmitter cannot change power like you describe - it has to be a reception problem - probably weather related. I'll find out why it did not come on until 8:15.

- Stu -

Jeff,
The computer that turns the transmitter on and off was in a bad mood when I checked it today. I took care of it.
I started logging the power output every 5 minutes. This way I can see for certain if the power level is changing.

- Stu -

P.S. Mark setup the HDTV board on wnep.com today. I'll be spending more time there answering questions.

Originally posted by jhutchey
Stu,

I was watching Armageddon last night using. I started out using the built-in tuner on my F38310 and it was dropping out pretty bad, even though the signal meter was indicating it's usual 65-70% strength (I am located in near Lake Wallenpaupack.) I then switched over to my SIR-T165 STB and had no dropouts and very few pixelizing after that.

I did notice however that the commercials seem to be significantly louder than the program material. This must be coming direct off the network feed, because my audio system continues to indicate Dolby-D. (It drops out of Dolby when local program material, i.e. news promo, is presented.

BTW, I taped MD's on the DVHS the other night, and it had almost no blocking/pixelizing during the show. I think things have been looking pretty decent lately on WNEP.

If you get a chance, how about checking out my post at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1639233 and see if you have any thoughts on my VHF reception woes.

-John

John,
I am aware of the audio level differences. I ordered Dolby test equipment a few weeks ago to fix it but it hasn't arrived yet. You are correct in that I have the automation set to change the Dolby encoder to 2 channel for local commercials and any non-HD content. How was the 5.1 surround audio on the movie?

Mark created a HDTV discussion board on wnep.com. I'll be spending more time there.

- Stu -

Originally posted by SteinyD
I'm sorry for this message which is a bit off topic. I'm relatively new to the HD scene (no pun intended), having bought my HighDef Sat Receiver (Toshiba DST3000) about 6 months ago to accompany my newly built theater. I have to say that I have been more than impressed with the picture quality coming from HDNet, ShowHD and HBOHD.

At the same time, I purchased a Terk 55 OTA antenna. The installers made sure I knew it was directional and that I might not be able to pick up everything that is available in the area (I am in Madison, NJ). As it is, I get Fox out of 2 areas and CBS. I do not get NBC or ABC. I am now thinking about putting the Terk on a rotator so that I can get some more benefit from the OTA signals.

Stu and the rest - I am very impressed by what you are doing at your station and the interaction, reaction and responsiveness you are providing your viewers. I have never seen a broadcaster react to feedback/comments/requests as you are in your constant attempt to improve the HD signals you are providing.

My question is, does anyone know if these signals can be reached as far east as Madison, NJ (07940)? If yes, should I be able to do it with the Terk or do I need a more substantial OTA antenna?

Thanks in advance for the input!

David Steinman

Hi Dave,
Unfortunately Madison is almost 85 miles from the transmitter - outside of our coverage area. Also, another person in central New Jersey (Orange I believe) reported that another analog station is transmitting on 49 - same as us. Even if you were to get us, chances are the analog interference would make us un-receiveable.

- Stu -

Originally posted by tfg32
Hey Stu,
Im still in high school but was wondering what kind of degrees/experience do you need for a profession in your type of work? It seems very interesting to me.
thanks

I'll leave you a private message as this is way off topic...

pretty quiet around here?

anybody get any information on when WYOU/WBRE claim they will be passing the HD signals from NBC and CBS?

I know its a pipedream for a while, but i'd like to dream. Hearing that some of the AFC games are going to be HD from CBS hurts!!

Thanks to Stu and WNEP I can look forward to the SuperBowl!!

Happy New Year!!

I'm in NW Jersey and at this time get CBS and Fox OTA HD signals but not NBC or ABC. I am also a DirecTV subscriber. Does anyone know if DirecTV is planning to carry any of the post season NFL games in HD as pay per view events, especially the superbowl?

No announcements have been made regarding DirecTV broadcasting the super bowl in high def and chances are good they will not. Your best bet may be to see if you can pick up WPVI channel 8 out of Philly.

WPVI is actually channel 6, and wward is right, that's probably your best bet. As you'll note in the HDTV Programming forum, it would be very out of character for DirecTV to do a one-time HDTV event. Also, they'd probably run into a lot of problems from ABC affiliates, since you wouldn't be able to see local ads.

With the right equipment, and if the weather cooperates, you should be able to pull in ABC from Philly.

Sorry about the typo ment channel 6 started celebrating a little early.

David you may be able to receive Philadelphia HD broadcasts from Madison (but most likely the signal is too weak). I live in Long Valley and get Philly CBS and on occasion FOX and WB. But I never have been able to get a lock on ABC. I know someone who gets every station from Philly and they live 8 miles east of me in Mount Arlington. It's a crap shoot and is very dependent on location and atmospheric conditions. Get the best equipment you can right from the start, otherwise you'll always second guess as to why you can't get a signal leading you to wasting time and money.

Anybody else watching WNEP's digital feed for the Fiesta Bowl?

Or am I the only one who cursed at my TV when WNEP's signal turning off during the 2nd OT of the Fiesta Bowl?

Originally posted by dwmoss
Anybody else watching WNEP's digital feed for the Fiesta Bowl?

Or am I the only one who cursed at my TV when WNEP's signal turning off during the 2nd OT of the Fiesta Bowl?

Thought I explained what happened on the WNEP board. It won't happen again.

- Stu -

Stu you did.

I wasn't try to dish on WNEP either. I appreciate all your input and help since your started broadcasting the digital signal. I am extremely grateful that you are passing the HDTV offerings from ABC, something i'm afraid we won't see from WYOU or WBRE for a LONG, LONG time.

I was surprised that no one mentioned it on THIS board. This board has been helpful for a variety of reasons.

thanks again

dave

Well I guess it took me forever to find this forum!

Nice to see stu was helping you NEPA guys all along as i just read thru these post for about an hour now!

Dont know if you remember me Stu but we have emailed and chatted before Hope your still Around, being Mark Censors me so Much At the Home site!!

Have had my go rounds with WBRE and WYOU lately!

Got a letter from the president of WBRE saying No HD until the market can support it!
Sent him an email back to ask Him (HA HA HA) how he was going to measure that and havent gotten a response yet!

Been flooding Corporate Nexstar with emails about it though!..I think there Hiding!

Ohh well just thought here would be a good place to strike up conversation again!

See ya all NEPA!

WBRE and WYOU have finnally broken my Back No HDTV!

WYOU no Playoff games no NCAA, No Masters in HD!!!!!!!!!!

Screw you,..... Dish network Here I come...National CBS HD FEED!

NBC Suspending HD because of the war...even though I dont get NBC HD
What is That!!!!!!!!!!

Wake Up NEPA its time to start Moving winters Over!

Very good news From Adelphia by the way...Boxes are on the way, so we shall see!

Best guess from my source,..near the fall channels will include, HBO, SHO,DISC, ESPNHD, ABC, and possibly HDNET!

Keep the fingers crossed!

Chez,

Check out Adelphia's Southern California web site, http://adelphiasocal.com/hdtv/. All it talks about is HDTV. It lists the equipment and channels that will be available at launch. You can even submit your information so they can contact you when it's available. I did, even though I'm on a different coast. Figure that if we start pressuring them that it may show them that there is an interest over here too. Take a look.

Jeff

Hey Jeff

I signed up for that too hope it reaches the right people!

Had any luck with WBRE or WYOU lately??, I keep getting stonewalled!

Nexstar Broadcastibng Sucks!

After reading AVS forums for years I never knew there was a thread for local talk especially NEPA! I have had An HDTV since 2000! PBS Loop days
How about you!

I would love to be able to get some type of measurement for how many people are actually getting DTV in this area, so I could shove it in those other ones face!

....see ya later!

Hello,

I'm going to put a VHF antenna up on my parent's house this weekend. Does anyone know whether WBRE and WYOU are operating at their full power of 30kW or at low power of 1.45kW?

TIA

TIA,

From what I know, they both operate of 30kW. Most of the signal strength of WBRE is mapped toward the Wilkes-Barre area and most of the signal strength of WYOU is mapped toward Scranton. I am about thirty miles from the tower, and I am able to get both. WBRE is weak at time though. The HD tuner can make the difference whether or not you are going to see a picture. Good luck with with the installation.

Jeff

Chez,

At one point I was talking to one of the engineers at WBRE/WYOU. He did give quit a bit of information. He personally wanted to install an HD system for broadcast, but the money was not budged. He said that possibly it could happen in a year or two. That was less than a year ago now. I never tried contacting Nexstar, which is probably a better idea. I will start doing that. If you haven't already, visit the WNEP HD board that was created. The more people we have talking on it, the more we are heard.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Williams


From what I know, they both operate of 30kW. Most of the signal strength of WBRE is mapped toward the Wilkes-Barre area and most of the signal strength of WYOU is mapped toward Scranton. I am about thirty miles from the tower, and I am able to get both. WBRE is weak at time though. The HD tuner can make the difference whether or not you are going to see a picture. Good luck with with the installation.

Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks again for the response. My parents are about 40 miles from the tower according to the online tools at ardman.net. I am putting up a $2.97 closeout Radio Shack antenna, the VU-110XR. It claims to pull in VHF from about 110 miles and UHF from about 90 miles over flat and unobstructed terrain. This sounds very optimistic. I am going to use a ChannelMaster VHF/UHF pre-amp. I plan to keep the CM eight-bay bowtie for UHF and use the RS antenna for VHF. The CM pre-amp has separate inputs for UHF and VHF. We are using a MyHD tuner.

I apologize in advance if this has been asked / answered recently ---

Any updates on the resurrection of NBC and ABC HD OTA in the NYC area? I believe they were aiming for March / April originally and then I heard it was moved out to September. Is this still the case? Anymore details?

Thanks

Hi,
Anyone in the Philadelphia area have a samsung 165 and jvc 30k. Is there a problem with timer recordings?
Thanks,
Marie

I tried using a 100 inch long 31 or 32 element closeout Radio Shack antenna and these channels register 0 to 11% signal strength. We are about 40 miles from the tower.

About 50 feet of RG-6 cable connects the VHF antenna to the VHF/UHF pre-amp on the UHF antenna about 20 to 25 feet apart.

Any suggestions on an antenna to pull in WYOU and WBRE from about 40 miles?

Thanks in advance

WABC: September '03.
I confirmed this with WABC at the NAB show two weeks ago.

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Chez,

If you haven't already, visit the WNEP HD board that was created. The more people we have talking on it, the more we are heard.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, but the WNEP board is a censored entity that I very rarely post on because The webmaster is not interested in helping out DTV users
with solid info., Although Stu is helpful most comments I make are censored, and I post under my real name there.

All Anybody posts about there is "when are locals gonna be on satellite"

When I respond with call D* or E* he censores me! Go figure

I get the same thing. I posted twice that Adelphia would soon be carrying HD. My one post just disappeared into thin air and the other had a sentence or two removed. Now I like Mark and Stu, but why the hell would they edit that out?

Jeff

I don't know why he edits anything I can understand if there is profanity or something like that!
But In my response to his home theater I said Know that we know your a D* sub, are you willing to pay 10$ a month as has been speculated here.
Boom gone edited out, yet he continues to allow posts about Locals on Satellite and equipment go unanswered or left with ridiculous answers!

Every time someone posts about Locals on Sat., I send a response saying contact your Sat. provider and ask them, or what did D* or E* say, he cuts it or doesn't post it at all.

Yes by the way I have it on very good authority that Adelphia is within a few months of launching an HD Tier...This is great news especially with The D* HD situation as it is now!

E* is looking like a good choice for HD now, Quoted to have 7 HD channels by summer!

Take care

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
I tried using a 100 inch long 31 or 32 element closeout Radio Shack antenna and these channels register 0 to 11% signal strength. We are about 40 miles from the tower.

About 50 feet of RG-6 cable connects the VHF antenna to the VHF/UHF pre-amp on the UHF antenna about 20 to 25 feet apart.

Any suggestions on an antenna to pull in WYOU and WBRE from about 40 miles?

Thanks in advance

jsb_hburg,

I live near Lake Wallenpaupack so I'm about 35 miles from their transmitters. I'm using a Jerrrold VIP-307SR VHF antenna, which is probably the biggest one you can get. It is mounted 25' about my roof and I still can't receive WBRE-DT or WYOU-DT.

I had scaffolding setup on the roof to erect the mast and antennas, so while I was up there I hooked up a portable digital field strength meter directly to the antenna terminals and did not have even a fraction of the signal necessary to receive their digital signals. However, 100000watts.com has both stations listed as running on a STA with only 1.45KW of output. Their permit is for 30KW so I am hopeful that I will be able to receive them in the future.

Before using the Jerrold I was using a fairly large Winegard VHF antenna. Changing to the Jerrold really cleaned up my reception of channel 12 in Binghamton, so if you are getting some signal now, maybe upgrading to an antenna with more gain will get you there.

Also, what kind of preamp or amp are you using and is it located right on the mast adjacent to the antenna or is it in the house? If not on the mast now, I highly recommend the Channel Master Titan series of mast-mounted preamps.

-John

John,

We ultimately increased the height of the ChannelMaster eight-bay bowtie by about 10 feet to improve the signal strength of the HDTV signals. Spending perhaps another $600 just to get DTV signals from WBRE and WYOU and possibly not pulling them in seemed like insult upon injury. We had thought about spending another $200 on a quality antenna and up to $400 on new Zenith STB.

My communications with the chief engineer did not sound promising either. He said that they were operating at one-third full power, implying 10 Kw. So, we concentrated on UHF for now since HDTV is present there at least. When WBRE and WYOU join today's technology completely, we will install a new antenna. I am very disappointed but that is Nexstar for ya'.

We are using a mast-mounted Titan2 pre-amp (UHF/VHF). I highly recommend them as well.

Joe,

I certainly agree with the "insult to injury" theory. Last fall I was excited that WNEP-DT was on the air and WBRE and WYOU were soon to follow, so I foolishly went out and bought a new HDTV. ABC HD was great, so I even more foolishly bought a STB and DVHS recorder so I could time-shift some of our favorite programs, still thinking WYOU and WBRE would not be far behind. When winter finally broke I hopped up on the roof to install the new extra-large VHF antenna and it didn't help. Here it is, six months and thousands of dollars later and all I can receive is ABC and PBS. Man, am I p'd off.

At any rate, I just checked the FCC database at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=WBRE&arn=&city=&chan=0.0&chan2=69&facid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2= and it seems to indicate that thay are only operating at 1.45KW. I'm still hopeful that when they increase their power I will be able to receive them.

I haven't gotten a reply from their engineer in my last few emails. Do you have any idea when they plan to increase their output?

Happy HDTV'ing

-John

Originally posted by jhutchey
Joe,
Here it is, six months and thousands of dollars later and all I can receive is ABC and PBS. Man, am I p'd off.



Unfortunately I am about to make it worse for NEPA!

As we have probably already noticed FOX 56 was not on the air May 1st,
although I was told they would be! Now apparently information available to me is....SEPTEMBER 1st!!!!!! The Damn FCC gave them an extension, or so they say I have yet to look this up.

That being said The situation with the Nexstar stations wont change anytime soon unless we all start calling everyday, and get our voices out!
The president of one of these stations told me and I quote "we will not be passing along HD until the market can support it." To which I replied how are you going to measure when the market can support it, to which I got no answer!....Man it sucks being 2 places out of the top 50!

So with this info we need to start a process of telling ourselves everyday to pick up the phone, send emails untill the boxes are full to get our message out there! If we spend thousands of dollars on TV then we also spend plenty of money on other things that the advertisers who buy time on these Non-HD stations! lets let them know we wont be buying from them and let them put some pressure on the stations as well!

As WNEP's web site opinion on HD says...Its still too expensive for the average person, so if we are upscale (Ugh I cant believe I said that!)
Then lets do as they do and start some commotion!

God I'm all fired up now!

chezbrgr2,

who have you been contacting for WYOU and WBRE (Nexstar). I would like to email them my dissapointment as well. My emails direct to WYOU or WBRE hardly ever get answered, and if they do its a "not in the near future for HDTV"

As far as there digital upconverted signal, i hardly ever get it, i get WNEP and WVIA fine with my OTA, but only if the wind blows the right way will i pick up WYOU or WVIA.

Heres the information I pulled up from the FCC's website on extensions, it shows wolf as getting an extension until 9/25/03.

dave


Application Search Details
File Number: BEPCDT-20021030AAF
Call Sign: WOLF-TV
Facility Id: 73375
FRN: 0002209013
Applicant Name: WOLF LICENSE CORP.
Frequency:
Channel: 45
Community of License: HAZLETON, PA
Application Type: CP EXTENSION
Status: GRANTED
Status Date: 03/25/2003
Expiration Date: 09/25/2003
Tolling Code:
Application Service: DT
Disposed Date: 03/25/2003
Accepted Date: 10/31/2002
Last Public Notice: 04/01/2003
Last Report Number: 45454

Dave,

When I speak to anyone at WBRE or WYOU, I always speak with both Engineering and Programming directors if I can On the same call.
Barry, and Bob at WBRE eng. are both very helpful.

As far as E-mails go read this..........

From: Linda Parri
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 10:18 AM
Subject: hdtv


Please excuse the tardiness of my note. Your e-mail just surfaced from an accumulated pile of viewer comments/suggestions.

Our decision not to go full HDTV was not a lightly debated issue. As soon as there are enough digital HDTV sets in the market, we'll make that conversion quickly. This is an enormous financial undertaking as you probably realize. As the penetration of digital/HDTV receivers increases, we'll look at our timetable to convert and adjust it accordingly.

Very truly yours,

Lawrence P. Herbster
Vice President and General Manager
WBRE-TV

lparri@nbga.net <lparri@nbga.net>

Hope this helps, Just remember they are our airwaves they are broadcasting on, and they do want to please us, but only when its convenient for them!

At WYOU I send emails to

22jditt@nbga.net <22jditt@nbga.net>

Talk to you soon....happy e-mailing

Lou

Hey all!

Thought I would post a most recent response from WYOU TV concerning HD transmission....read on........

Thank you for your inquiry. We are not alone, as many
medium to smaller ranked markets have also chosen to
broadcast a SD digital signal for now. Until an array of
technical issues relating to the broadcast of local HDTV
and standardization of HDTV sets/tuners for the consumer
are addressed, we, like hundreds of other broadcasters,
are not yet ready to go full blown HDTV. Mission
Broadcasting stations, which include WYOU; as well as,
those owned by Nexstar Broadcasting, including WBRE, have
opted to transmit SD until such a time that consumer
demand and technical standards reach a point that
justifies the financial commitment.
I have also passed your email on to our chief engineer
should they wish to provide you with additional comment.
I appreciate your interest and WYOU/Mission looks forward
to providing viewers with full blown digital in the
future.
Sincerely,

On Thu, 8 May 2003 08:11:41 -0400


And then My own response,

Mr. D,

Originally after reading your reply I was not going to respond, but after
taking a Second look at it I feel I must for it is filled with inaccurate
information.

First of all out of 210 DMA listed in this country we are ranked No 52. Your
first comment was medium to smaller ranked markets! I'm sorry but we seem to
be in the top 25% of all DMA's in this country, therefore I would hardly
consider your viewing market medium to small!

Secondly you stated " an array of technical issues relating to broadcast of
Local HDTV", do you mean seeing our local news in HD! I certainly am not
expecting to see that anytime soon!, However I am interested in seeing you
pass along your Networks HD feed , that the are sending to you on a daily
basis! Sources within your organization have told me WYOU is all ready to
"Flip the HD switch but WBRE is not" If this is true I would have preferred
you had said that.

Thirdly standardization of HDTV sets is not a broadcasters concern! The FCC
has already set down guidelines for this. Currently there are several
options for anyone who has a digital TV to see HDTV!
OTA tuners have been sold in this area for as little as 249.99, and will
continue to be! Anyone who buys a Zenith TV 32 inch or larger will already
have a DTV tuner built inside! Anyone who currently owns a HD DirecTV tuner
already has the equipment they need to get HDTV signals! The problem is the
market will not "explode" until you stop sending a SD signal and send an HD
one! Several hundred phone calls and inquiries are taken by myself each week
about who is HD and who not!

As someone with a bit of an Engineering background could you tell me by what
process it is that your station is able to send out a 480p SD signal but yet
is unable to send out your networks 1080i feed.! Is it an equipment problem?
Maybe your engineer can e-mail me.

In closing I thank you for your response and look forward to continued
communication on this matter. I think that with the right information
broadcasters from every area can get an accurate picture of what the public
is doing.
I for one would love to be watching some of my favorite shows on CBS in
HDTV, alas I end up watching mediocre shows on ABC because the are in HD!
Please endeavor to accomplish HD by football season, CBS has done HD for a
few years now, it would be a shame to miss it this year.

Thank you for your time,


Well thats all for this week NEPA......see ya

Guys copied this from another thread hope this helps someone!

For Immediate Release CONTACT: Megan Krause
610/ 826-9283

BLUE RIDGE COMMUNICATIONS BECOMES
LARGEST PROVIDER OF HDTV PROGRAMMING IN AREA

(Palmerton, PA - May 7, 2003) Blue Ridge Communications customers in Monroe, Carbon, Lehigh, Wayne, Pike, Lehigh, Berks and Northern Lancaster counties have found themselves on the forefront of the high definition revolution. In one swift move, Blue Ridge added four new high definition TV (HDTV) channels to their Blue Ridge HDTV service today, giving the local cable TV company the distinction of becoming one of the largest providers of HDTV programming in the world.

The four new channels, ESPN HD, Discovery HD Theater, HD Net and HD Movies, are offered as part of Blue Ridge’s new HDTV Plus package, bringing the total number of high definition channels available on the service to 10 networks.

Blue Ridge customers can access high definition programming on their HDTV-ready television sets by subscribing to Blue Ridge Digital Cable and leasing an advanced HDTV set top. The HDTV Basic package includes the HD set-top lease and high definition programming from ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, HBO and Showtime. A subscription to HBO or Showtime is required to receive HBO HDTV and Showtime HDTV, respectively.

Blue Ridge’s HDTV Plus package offers 10 channels of HDTV programming, including the four new HD channels as well as those featured in the HDTV Basic package. Current Blue Ridge HDTV customers will receive a free trial of the new HD channels now through May 31, 2003.

In addition, Blue Ridge plans to add Comcast Sports Net HD, featuring select Philadelphia Flyers, Sixers and Phillies games in high definition format, this fall.

“This is a monumental move for high definition TV and the cable industry. We are elated to be one of the first cable TV providers to offer such a substantial package of HD programming,” said Mark Masenheimer, General Manager of Blue Ridge Communications.

High definition programming offers greater picture quality by using substantially more lines of resolution than standard TV programming. HDTV programming typically has about 1,080 active lines of resolution, as compared to approximately 486 lines in analog TV programming. Select HD programming also features Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound audio.

Digital cable and HDTV services are subject to availability. Customers should contact their local Blue Ridge Communications office for details.

Blue Ridge Communications is the nation’s 21st largest cable TV provider and a wholly owned subsidiary of Pencor Services, Inc. Pencor is a leader in the development and introduction of media and communications technology throughout Northeast Pennsylvania. Pencor companies provide new media content and advertising services via cable TV, newspapers and the Internet.

WOW GO BLUE RIDGE....
Funny thing though I dont know if they are using WNEP for ABC!