Here's the response I received to my most recent email re:HDTV. Thanks, Marty!

Dear Mr. Forbes:

Thank you for your inquiry.

At this time we do not have a tentative date as to when we will be
launching the HDTV. You will be notified by mail as soon as this
becomes available.

We hope that we have been able to provide you with the information you
requested. If we have not, or if we can be of any additional service
to you, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Regards,

Marty
The E-Care Team
Cox Communications, Kansas

I called COX to ask when they plan on offering HDTV. I spoke with a "customer care representative". In a nutshell the answer was "end of this year", but the reason for the delay was interesting. COX is waiting for all local stations to offer HD. I pointed out that ABC,CBS,NBS,FOX,WB, and UPN already are broadcasting in digital. The clever reply was that COX was also offering digital service. The rep pointed out that not all of these stations were offering High Definition. I said "you can't be waiting on FOX because they aren't offering HD ANYWHERE, and the only other station not offering anything in HD is UPN, and they will be this fall." He said "FOX will be offering High Definition by 2006." I guess that gives COX until 2006 to offer HD. The only other thing of note was that he confirmed COX is ready in terms of their infrastructure. In other words, they could offer it now, they are simply making a business decision not to.

The other "interesting" thing was their voicemail system which, after pressing 1 for English, says "I'm sorry, I was unable to find a Social Security Number or PIN...". I asked the customer care rep about that and he said I don't have a SSN on file. I asked how to fix that and he said "come down to the main office and bring your social security card".

David

I,m new here here does anyone here familiar with a Samsung TS-T151 receiver and if they have had any problem with get channels I am only able to get 19-1 and 45-1 and not able to get any other channels I have an outside antenna, I can get a sinal from fox but it still shows up a black screen

David, that just sucks. I'm trying not to whine too much about it, because I really have no control over this situation at all.

It's just this attitude from COX that everyone in the community is clueless about HDTV until they choose to unveil this 'fantastic new service' at some future super-double-top-secret date that, frankly, pisses me off.

I know that the majority of people in this area haven't even begun to think about HDTV. (Maybe that's a failure of Cox's marketing division). However, when I make a specific request for information, I think they should be a little more forthcoming. You know, if it's a business decision that they've made (and I'm sure it is), then fine, just tell me. I'm not an idiot. If a reasonably informed person at COX would tell me, "You know what, we don't think the market in this area can support HDTV right now.", I'd feel a lot better about waiting.

Sorry, I try not to get on personal rants on these boards, I just needed to vent a little.

Regards. Jay.

Jay,

FWIW, I agree 100%, but then I suspect everyone who comes here would agree with you. The reason given was, I suspect, calculated to appeas the ignorant. It sounds plausible to those who don't know you can put up a $2.99 antenna and pick up SIX local digital stations, FOUR of which offer at least SOME programming in High Definition.

If I get the urge, I may call and try to talk to someone besides "customer service," but to be honest, other than doing this as a public service, I personally don't care if COX looses market share or not. At this point, HD cable wouldn't offer me anything I don't already have with DirecTV and an OTA antenna. In other words, unless I just feel like my blood pressure is too low, I think I'll leave this "an exercise for the reader."

David

Hello Everyone,

I would like to report which DTV stations can be received in the city of McPherson and what gear I use.

I have the RS VU-60 with a 20db gain preamp at 25 ft feeding a Hughes E86 receiver. This antenna provides Digital signal readings in the mid 90's
for KWCH,KSAS,KWCV and KSCC. I can't receive KAKE's digital at the current ERP level (Hopefully they will go to full power soon!). The overall quality is great for the OTA channels I can receive! I found some info about KSNW that indicated they are running 3 KW which would provide a very small coverage area. Can anybody receive them?

Regards,
Chance

David:
Try calling headquarters and ask for Don Karell. If you want, I can give you his direct line, just PM me. I really don't want to put it out in the open. He is the VP of Cox Kansas.

Chance,

I was under the impression that KAKE (21-1, 10-1) was at full power. I don't believe I have ever had a problem with KAKE. They really have their act together. Getting KSNW (45-1, 3-1) has been a challenge from time to time. KWCH (19-1, 12-1) has been pretty consistantly good, just a little lower in signal than the other Wichita stations.

As a by-the-way, I haven't had any problems with sound on WB lately so whatever my problem was has quietly gone away.

David

Hi David,

I found the data on the FCC site. There are two entrys and one of them does say 1000 KW. The other entry says 87 KW with the antenna azimuth set at 65 degrees which would be pointed right into Wichita, away from McPherson (Why they did this I have no idea when the other stations are 0 degrees making them Omni directional). See this link...

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KAKE-TV

Keep in mind I'm not a stones throw away for the towers like most of the people on this forum. My path is 42 miles to the Colwich site which makes using outside antennas to maintain any kind of fade margin.So I performed some tests with my IFR 120B Spec An to see the field strengths of each station. Measurments taken at the end of the coax pigtail.

Ch 19 KWCH -68dBm
Ch 21 KAKE -98dBm
Ch 26 KSAS -71dBm
Ch 31 KWCV -64dBm
Ch 35 KSCC -65dBm

As you can see Ch 21 KAKE is approximately 30 dB down compared to the other stations in the same location. This led me to believe they are running low power. Dave, can you describe your Channel Master UHF antenna. Is it one of those BIG grid type antennas they made back in the 60's-70's?

Regards,
Chance

Chance,

The fact that you are so far away and on the opposite side of the towers from those of us in Wichita makes it a whole new ballgame for you. I have it super easy since I'm only a stones throw from most of the towers. As I've said before, I can pick up four of the stations with a Radio Shack bowtie, which is little more than a coat hanger.

My antenna is a Channel Master 4-way bowtie/screen antenna. It's not terribly large, and doesn't need to be for my location.

Thanks for sharing. Your input is a valuable addition to this thread.

David

Chance,

I am on the East side of Wichita, and can get all channels except KSNW. I had KSNW for one evening out of the last two weeks. I sent a note to Dave Rickels, their tech, on 2/24 and he said:

"KSN's DTV transmitter is not operating correctly at present.
The factory is working on the problem, I'm not sure when they will
have a fix for it."

I haven't heard back if they have fixed the problem or not.

Alright guys, I've made it into my new house (was in an apartment). I can get all 6 stations now with my RS double bowtie, even 3-1! Woohoo! I'm still on the east side of Wichita, about 1 mile south of my old apartment. The amazing thing is that my family room is 3 feet below ground level (the house is a quad), so my antenna on top the the entertainment center is only 3 or 4 feet above ground level.

I was surprised it works even better than before (apartment was at ground level). I guess getting away from all the large apartment buildings helped a lot.

BRETSTER71:

I have the TS-160 which is also a Samsung. What type of antenna do you have? Not all outdoor antenna's work well for DTV. The newer style multi-directional antennas are the worst. The one Haysdb has is one of the best. A good multi-bowtie UHF only antenna is a very good choice.

Check your connections and tweak the antenna direction (if it's directional). Also be sure to do a channel rescan.

Chance:

KSNW is the only station transmitting at low power levels. For those of us on the east side of Wichita, CBS (12-1) is a little hard to receive also since their tower is in Hutch.

Dave G.

Thanks Talon I have just a cheap Radio Shack antenna, one day I can get 12 & 3 the next I can't, I extened my antenna to 8' above my house trying to get better reception, but I'm beginning to thank about moving it because I have power lines 50' away do you thank that could cause reception problems

Hi Everybody, great thread,

My name is Bob and I am writing from Salina, KS, which is about 70 miles North of the Wichita TV towers (KAKE 10-1, FOX 24-1, KSNW 3-1 and WB KSCV 33-1). The UPN tower (KSCC 36-1) is about 60 miles away, and I am nearly 50 miles away from the Hutchinson towers (KWCH 19-1 and KPTS 29-1).

I am using a ChannelMaster 4248 long range 'UHF-only' yagi antenna, with a ChannelMaster 7775 pre-amplifier. I am getting good, constant reception on KWCH, WB, and UPN 99 plus % of the time, with a signal strength of 80-90.

I get FOX about 60-70% of the time, but I get pixelization and dropouts too much of the time to make it watchable. Since I am picking up WB consistently, and the two towers are near each other, I presume (FOX is not too good about answering e-mails) that FOX is running lower transmit power and/or lower antenna height. Some of their transmissions are in Hi Def Widescreen, however, such as "24", "Fast Lane", and "John Doe".

I have only seen KAKE & KSNW briefly, on a few occasions. Return e-mail from KAKE says "current transmit antenna is already near the top of the tower at 930 feet, but the current effective radiated power is only 87,000 watts." KSNW says that it is “operating its DTV transmitter at only 1,000-watts, but expects to have a high power transmitter up and running by the end of this year.”

As far as I know, KPTS has not yet began to broadcast a DTV signal yet.

All the stations that have replied via e-mail have been a little surprised that I can receive their stations at all from this distance. I just hope that my reception of KAKE & KSNW will improve shortly, if/when they raise their transmit power.

Just thought I'd add a little to the thread,

Bob
(Hatachi 57XWX20B)

Bob,
Try channel 17 for Fox. That is the same as 24 in Wichita and 17 comes from north of Salina. I know a guy south of Manhattan getting 17 very good.

tim

Hi timmy1376,

Thank you for your suggestion. Actually, KAAS-DT, ch. 17-1, was the very first DTV signal I received on my TV when I ran a scan with a RS bowtie antenna. The main reason that I'm holding out hope for the Wichita is that they recently started broadcasting in 1080i format, sometimes in Widescreen. The Salina tower is still broadcasting in 480i.

Also, my antenna (4248) is so directional that when it's pointed south toward Wichita, I can't pick up the Salina KAAS tower. Besides, I also have HDTVless (at least so far) Cox Cable. FOX is on cable channel 4.

Maybe, before too long, COX will begin HDTV transmissions.

On another note, I wish that there was a way to manually tune DVT channels on my 57XWX20B without having run a new scan every time to find new channels.

Thanks again,

Bob

Originally posted by bobfs
Hi timmy1376,

Thank you for your suggestion. Actually, KAAS-DT, ch. 17-1, was the very first DTV signal I received on my TV when I ran a scan with a RS bowtie antenna. The main reason that I'm holding out hope for the Wichita is that they recently started broadcasting in 1080i format, sometimes in Widescreen. The Salina tower is still broadcasting in 480i.
Thanks again,

Bob

Are you sure they are doing 1080i? I know all the fox stuff is 480p, no 1080i, but perhaps KSAS is upconverting. I thought that they were going to try to get the KAAS sending out widescreen, but I may be wrong.

tim

Yes, I'm 99.9% positive. My TV has a readout of the format being sent. Up until about three weeks ago, it read 480i, I believe, not 480p. Now it reads 1080i. Also, only 16:9 aspect ratio is available on the screen, even when displaying a 4:3 ratio picture (with grey bars). Finally, the picture is obviously HDTV. I have watched "24", "Fast Lane", and "John Doe" in HiRes Wide-screen. "24" is probably one of the three best shows on TV , if not the best. I just wish FOX would increase their broadcast power to the same output as WB, so I could watch without blackouts. On a good night, though, I can watch the whole program. Wow!!

Bob

If FOX is offering anything in HD, it's a well kept secret. I just did a Google search, looking for any indication that FOX had started offering High Def programming, but I didn't find anything. TitanTV.com doesn't list any FOX programs as HD.

Fox euphamistically calls their 480p 16:9 programming "Fox Widescreen". It is widescreen, but it's "enhanced definition" and not, strictly speaking, "high definition", which is a term reserved for native 720p and 1080i programming.

David

Our local FOX station is broadcasting 1080i 100% of the time, but there is no true HD content offered by FOX. Everything is either 4x3 480i or 16x9 480i/p. The local station is simply upconverting the signal to 1080i.

Dave G.

So the actual Fox Widescreen is upconverted by the station to 1080i. I bet that actually looks pretty good.

Didn't I hear they were going to try to get the tower in Salina to the same as Wichita, by sending the 1080i and widescreen??

Guys,
If any of you are Royals fans, make sure to call Cox this week and tell them you want them to pick up the Royals Television network. They will be talking this week and I sure hope I can see them on TV this year.

Also, I thought was funny:
I called and asked about the Royals and while I was on the phone, I asked about HDTV over cox. The guy said that he knew what it was, and they really want to offer it, but they were waiting on ALL the stations to go HD before rolling it out. I said all the stations in Wichita are digital, and he said, no, stations like USA, TNT, SciFI. I just had to laugh to myself, say thanks, and hang up.

The FOX broadcast does look pretty good. The 16x9 stuff (like Nascar) is about DVD quality which is a major improvement over normal 4x3. I'm not sure if they shoot that in 480i or 480p though.

Dave G.

BTW, I can tell you guys how WB fixed the sound level problem you were having. They cranked it up twice as loud! How do I know that? Because while you guys were having low audio problems, it was fine on my setup. Now it's way too friggin' loud! Oh well, I can tweak the volume down, better than no audio at all. :-)

Dave G.

WB sound level

What Marty told me was he was in the setup menu on his encoder and discovered there was "padding" in the sound (whatever that means). He changed the setting back to what it was on his original encoder (this one is a loaner while his is being repaired), and bada bing, problem fixed. Only apparently not for everyone.

As to FOX, my brother saw last years Super Bowl and assumed it was in High Def because of how good it looked. He was surprised to learn it was not 1080i. I haven't personally seen anything in 480p, so I can't offer my opinion as to how 480p scaled to 1080i compares with, say, true 1080i on HDNet. Wide screen alone is a big deal, and I don't need to see it to know that digital 480p is lightyears better than 480i. Don't forget that a few years ago "line doublers" cost MAJOR bucks, and this is true 480p and not just "line doubled" 480i. It is precisely "DVD quality", which at it's best is pretty damn good. But you'd never mistake 480p for a really GOOD 1080i (or 720p), so there is still room for improvement, and I hope FOX eventually offers HD programming. I personally wish they would go to 720p, since it's a natural fit for plasma, LCD, and DLP technologies.

David

One thing to note though. DVD's are all 480i. They are either line doubled by the player or TV (on an HDTV). So if it's 480p, it's actually better. (although their broadcast doesn't look any better than a DVD, so maybe it's 480i)

Dave G.

Hey guys, I am still unable to get FOX and UPN on my decoder, I have full strength on my signal, but my decoder says it has no signal, almost like fox and UPN broadcasting format is not compatable with my decoder, has anyone else experienced this problem, I have the Samsung T161 decoder

Bret:

You have rescaned??

Bretster, Contact station engineer Jon Cyphers and report the problem. Jon has been great about addressing various issues folks have had with FOX and UPN. These are "sister stations", so you will typically have problems with both, or neither. His email has been listed a time or two in this thread so I won't list it again here. Giving him a call would be better.

I am picking up FOX and UPN, but I have a different receiver. If you are getting a stong signal, then it's not an antenna pointing issue, although it could still be antenna related, possibly a multipath issue, where you are getting a strong reflected signal in addition to the primary one.

Good luck, and do report back on what works and doesn't work.

David

Bretster,

If you haven't re-scanned, then definitely do that. I've had that problem with my TS-160. Re-scanning sometimes fixes it. If it doesn't, then it may be multi-path as Haysdb said. If your here in Wichita, you might try an indoor antenna like the Silver Sensor (Sears or Circuit City has them). I'm having really good luck with my RS Double Bowtie (I'm at Pawnee and Web). Also try rotating your existing antenna.

Dave G.

Bretster,

I too have been having problem receiving Fox and UPN with my Samsung Sir-t151. I stopped receiving both of them a while ago. I e-mailed Jon Cyphers at JonCyphers@clearchannel.com and he had the problem fixed within a couple of days. Its seems that it's caused by a software corruption on his side. If you are noticing problems like a no signal warning before you start get a picture, even though you have plenty of signal, rescanning will sometimes cause you to lose the channel entirely.
I recommend that you e-mail Jon. Because this problem only affects a small percentage of an already small group of HDTV viewers, he has no way of knowing about it unless somebody tells him.

Rob

Hello bobfs,
Good to see you got a reply from KAKE. I emailed them last week with no reply. Great news on all the DT stations you can receive in Salina! It will be interesting how much the signals will be attenuated by the tree leaves. Can you tell me where you found your CM 4248 UHF antenna? Thanks!
Regards,
Chance in McPherson

Hi Chance C,

Speaking of all the great chennels, check this out. I ran a scan today and here are my results.

03-1 KNSW Wichita
10-1 KAKE Wichita
12-1 KWCH Hutchinson
19-1 KAAS Salina
24-1 KSAS Wichita
33-1 KWCV Wichita
36-1 KSCC Wichita
52-1 KSBI Oklahoma City
52-2 KSBI Oklahoma City
56-1 KJRH Tulsa

Guess there must be some kind of skip going on!! I don't know what kind of problems trees will cause. I hope not much. BTW, I got my antenna from http://www.starkelectronics.com

On a related subject, is there any way to keep these channels in memory and add new stations to the memory list, without doing a new scan. A new scan erases the old list and starts a new one. I have a Hitachi 57XWX20B. Any help from anybody is appreciated.

Thanks for the reply and/or any info.

Bob

Try searching the "Rear Projection Unit" forum. There's probably quite a bit of info there on using the tuner in your set. If you don't turn up anything, then post the question. There are a bunch of guys there with that set.

Dave G.

All,
We are coming into spring tropo with these temperature swings. I did some quick DXing before work and found 52-1 FN (in OKC?) and 56-1 KJRH in Tulsa. Found many other stations with signal readings in the 20's which is not sufficient for the Hughes E86. I find anything lower than 30 causes picture lockup.

bobfs - The E86 allows a person to step through each channel manually to find new or DX stations without doing a automatic rescan.

Regards,
Chance

Hello Everyone,
My Channel Master CM-4248 UHF is in the air and working great! KAKE-DT signal went from 0-6 to 27-34 which allows the Hughes E86 to receive with a few drop outs. The time was 6:30pm when we finished the install and then a funny thing happened at 7:00pm. I did one last signal check on Ch 21(KAKE-DT) and the signal jumped from 30 to 93-100! So I tuned back to 10-1 to find a solid picture with NO drop outs! It looks like the engineers turned up the power. THANK YOU KAKE!!!

bobfs - After seeing your results with the 4248 in Salina I had to try one for myself. This antenna delivers the goods for people out in UHF fringe coverage areas!

My antenna configuration has the CM-4248 at 28ft with a Channel Master VHF (can't remember the model)at 25ft coupled to a Winegard AP-2870 preamp which has separate VHF(17dB) and UHF(19dB) inputs.

Regards,
Chance in McPherson

Hey guys,
I know pretty much everyone in here already has a nice HDTV setup.
But I am selling my ECP 4500 CRT projector along with my RCA DTC-100 HD receiver for a very reasonable price.

These units work very well together on my homemade 92" screen which you could also have if you want. Feel free to E-mail me at cobra95kev@yahoo.com if you are interested or would like an eye popping demo.

I am asking 700.00 OBO and that includes me helping you set it up and learn the projector. I also have some switches and cables I can give you with it.


Thanks
Kevin Coleman

I am a Wichitan that is new to the HD world...this thread is great! I have a 55in Mitsubishi HDTV, Directv, a rooftop antenna, and I did have a Samsung TS160 HD receiver but I am returning it tonight. The one I had crashed often and was never able to receive an HD picture through Directv (only the locals channels). I also believe that my dish is not pointed correctly, which should be taken care of tomorrow evening.

I hope to have everything up and running by "the final four" games on Saturday...How does basketball look in HD?

Once it is in working order I will report back my results...

Has there been any news on KWCH upping their signal strength? It is the only channel I cannot get, and I thought they had talked about upping their signal.

Hi chrisb25,

According to an email I received from Don Vest, "We (KWCH-DT) are transmitting at low power and we are scheduled to go to full power in 2005. The antenna is at near the top of the tower at the present time( 1350 FT)."

However, even at low power, KWCH-DT is the station I pick up the best from Salina. I may get minor pixelization or audio dropouts once every three or four days.

To haysdb: Many of the shows on FOX have the 'bug' at the bottom of the screen at the beginning of the program that says: Presented in Widescreen - High Definition.

bobfs

While watching the Final Four yesterday, I noticed that KWCH has added "Hutchinson" in bright white letters to their on-screen logo--it is not ghosted like the rest of it. I hate on-screen logos anyway, but not ghosting part of it will cause it to burn-in.

If you feel as strongly as I do about this, please contact KWCH's general manager...here is her email address (posted on KWCH's web site, so it's out their for the public to use):
kmohn@kwch.com

Maybe they intended for it to be ghosted, but until they hear from enough viewers, I doubt it will be changed.

Regards,

Mike

Update: I noticed "Hutchinson" was no longer in their logo on Monday. Still doesn't hurt to send 'em an email to let them know if you dislike on-screen logos in general and especially ones that aren't ghosted.

Does anyone know if or when KPTS (PBS Wichita) chan. 8 will begin broadcasting in HD? I am not a big PBS fan, but I have heard that they have an awesome HD demonstration that runs daily...it is perfect for showing off your set.

Thanks

CW

Hi CW,

According to <dmcclintock@KPTS.ORG> as of 2/21/03 "We have all necessary equipment on order, some of it here now and being installed. I don't necessarily expect to be broadcasting regularly until May. We are planning to have the digital system on the air during "prime time" evening hours initially. We will provide as much HD widescreen as we have available to us, the rest of the time it will be standard definition, some wide screen, some not. If all goes according to plan we will be broadcasting two channels, the second one being PBS Kids so the children will also have some programming available in prime time."

I have been scanning for their signal, but I have not found it yet. If you find a KPTS-DT signal, please post it to this forum. I will do the same.

Good luck,

bobfs

KPTS is supposed to be on UHF channel 29. I have emailed them asking if they are going to make their digital debut by May 1st. I'll report here if I hear back from them.

Is everyone out there getting digital 24 and 36? I was getting them but I no longer am able to pick up either one. I thought I heard they are both owned by the same company so I was thinking that maybe they are both down for maintenance.

Thought I would set up an account for when I see questions about our stations to give the forum members quick responses when possible.

All of our transmitters are on and at full power. If we take one down for scheduled maintenance, I will try to post here ahead of time. Not all maintenance is scheduled though ;)

F P Crazy - Have your tried a rescan? Are you using a Samsung receiver?

Our master control operators monitor our signals (including digital) off air, 24 hours a day and notify the Engineering dept. of problems immediately.

While I'm on the subject, our transmitters are at full power and there are no plans for raising the power. You can see our power output ratings in my profile if you want.

Please feel free to post or email me any questions about our stations.
Thanks!

Jon Cyphers
Assistant Chief Engineer
FoxKansas and UPNKansas

Jon Cyphers,

I appreciate you posting here (as does everyone else reading this thread - I'm sure).

I am using a Samsung TS-165 terrestrial only. I have a Samsung TS-160 DirecTV HD receiver but am only using this for DirecTV. I have a Winegard long range antenna mounted on a mast some 20' up in the air and am also amplifying the signal. I used to get 26 and 35 but since the trees sprang to life, I have lost them both . I also lost KAKE (21) but if I swing the antenna almost due West, I can pick it up, although it drops out horribly. I am mounted to the North side of a metal building (near old town) with a metal roof and I'm almost positive that I am getting some phase cancellation from the metal roof top reflections behind the antenna. I may some day look into a strictly directional antenna, as the one I currently have is a first rate antenna but does not reject side or rear reflections, a common antagonist of the ATSC (Zenith's VSB) reception system. No matter how I point the antenna I currently cannot pick anything from 26 or 35. That is why I thought maybe you were down. I am getting 45 (3-1), 19 (12-1 and 31 (33-1) wonderfully.

Not being able to get ABC is a drag as ABC is really starting to put a lot of HD out and I was looking forward to watching the NBA playoffs in HD. I thought I read somewhere that ABC has some of the NBA playoffs this year.

To Everyone else,

I heard back from Dave McClintock at KPTS and here are quotes from his reply to me:

"We will be broadcasting on channel 29 and probably will only be on the air from 3 PM to Midnight for awhile. Our intention is to provide the usual schedule of programs along with a second program stream of PBS KIDS programs for the children.

We expect to begin broadcasting May 1st and will pass along any HD programs that we can. Right now most are in standard definition however. The transmitter is being installed right now so we should begin testing it late this week or early next. Thanks for your interest. -Dave"

I hope this answers some of the questions on HD KPTS,

FP Crazy

Jon,
I always am impressed when guys in your position come on here and face both the good and bad. Thanks for doing that. I take it your UPN station is 1,000 watts, is that what 1MW is? Would that reach us all the way up here in Manhattan?? If not, have you guys ever thought of doing like KAAS for the UPN station? We do not have an UPN affiliate for the Topeka market.

Is your KSAS antenna directional?? I do not get KAAS here but do know a guy up on I70 that does.

thanks,

tim

FP Crazy-
I worked with another gentleman that had a Samsung terrestial only receiver who had the same problem. Seems that when the Samsung loses reception of a station it's hard to convince it to look at it again. His receiver was new enough he could exchange it at Best Buy. My guess is there is a lithium battery or a nonvolatile memory chip inside that saves the settings even when the power is pulled. If it is a battery theoretically it could be pulled to reset the box to factory, BUT I don't know this for sure, and would recommend talking to Samsung especially if the box is under warranty.

You're probably right on target about the metal roof, 8VSB doesn't handle reflections very well in my experience. If you can get 3-1 which is currently at a lower power and a higher frequency then us and their tower is literally across the field from us, you should at least get 24-1. So either you have a bad reflection at our frequency or your receiver is playing games with you.

So if a rescan and power plug disconnection doesn't get you working again, you might try working with your antenna. If you could get the antenna even a few more feet above or away from the metal roof it might help. The towers are all NW of Wichita for the most part with UPN being slightly farther North.

Timmy-
UPNKansas is 1MegaWatt as in 1,000,000 Watts ERP (Effective Radiated Power) due to a high gain antenna. As far as a transmitter in the Salina area, nothing is planned. We are trying to get UPNKansas on as many cable systems as possible though (not digital sorry). We just bought a brand new transmitter for going digital in Wichita, so that kind of tied up our budget. We would love to be transmitting up there, but we trust that decision to the 'bean counters', and several things factor in to the decision.

In addition our DMA (Direct Marketing Area) makes a line N to S in between Manhattan and Emporia. This is why Topeka and other eastern cities would get KC and Topeka stations vs Wichita stations. Also why Manhattan sometimes gets both KC and Wichita stations. We would not be able to put a transmitter in for the Topeka market because of our DMA, but someone else might.

Our KSAS tower is not exactly omnidirectional but close. It has a peanut shaped pattern that is focused on Wichita and Hutchinson so areas SW and NE of Wichita lose our signal faster then people SE and NW.
Our crossover point between our Salina and Wichita transmitters for FoxKansas on I-135 is McPherson.

If you have a good outdoor antenna pointed West you should be able to get analog 18 KAAS on a good day. Our KAAS-DT is only 1kW so it's just making it to Salina. Unless everything was just right, I would doubt that you could receive 18-1 in Manhattan because of those hill like things you have up that way (what do you call that? terrain?) ;)

Hope this answers some questions

I tried a rescan. It didn't help. The Samsung TS160 (DirectV/ATSC combo)is the one with all the problems not the TS165. My 160 has really been problem free. I have sold several 160s and they seem to need to be occasionally unplugged and rescanned. It seems they are susceptible to bad PSIP code and that causes them problems - or so it has been reported to be the problem. But my 165 never locks up. I did notice that when I rescanned, it paused on channels 26 and 35, before putting up the "not added" baner - where all the other frequencies (where no station exists) immediatly come up as "not added" (with no pause). That tells me that it either is seeing something, or it remembers that there was a channel there at some time.

I will soon probably try a Winegard 7210 which is supposedly very directional and very good at rejecting side and rear reflections. I am waiting for Winegard's tech support to call back so I can discuss this with them, before I proceed.

BTW, I unplugged the power to my 165 for over an hour before tha last rescan. I also can't get the antenna up much higher. I have about 3-4 inches to go, before I run out of mast.

Funny I am getting analog 24 and 36 with a decent pic. The same can be said for analog 12. Even analog 3 looks okay (a few sparkles). Analog 10 is pretty soft and it usually is the easiest to get a decent picture with an antenna. I am pointed to the Northwest. Analog 33 is also okay. If anyone else has ideas, I'll listen. If I try the different Winegard 7210, I'll report my results

FP Crazy-
The other gentleman had the same exact problem, his box wasn't fixed, he got a virgin replacement that worked out of the box. His receiver did the same "pausing" thing when programming. Unplugging it will not help as I stated before, there is a battery or nonvolatile memory chip inside storing everything. If you are a dealer, have you tried a different 165 out of the box on your system?

PSIP seems to be the most problematic thing with the DTV transition. I have updated all of our encoders and PSIP equipment with the latest versions. I did this trying to fix the earlier gentleman's box, but nothing worked. I run a piece of test equipment that checks the timing and structure of the PSIP tables after they are broadcast, and everything checks out fine. I also trust that other people on the forum would be posting if they were having problems.

Our encoder company Tandberg tests their encoders with every new STB that comes out. They did report a small problem with the Samsung 165, but resolved it with a software upgrade, and I have been running that version for a month now.

If you can receive our analog channels, then I would say there is a 99% chance your antenna setup is fine. It's your STB locked up.

I hope you have the resources to try a new STB, there is nothing I can do on my end, wish there was.

jon

Just as a data point, I have a TS-160 and all 6 DTV stations are working. WB (33-1) has been down the last couple of mornings, but was working last night. I'm guessing that's a problem on their end.

The previous statements about the TS-160 are correct. When a station changes PSIP data, it is sometimes necessary to do a channel scan. I haven't done a scan for a couple of months with no apparent problems. Except for that issue, I've had minimal problems since the 1.06 firmware upgrade.

Dave G.

Jon,

I also have an old DTC100 and it is receiving both 26 and 35 so I now realize that it is a problem with the TS165. Samsung wants me to send it in for service as they won't do an exchange. They claim that your PSIP is too low and that is why it is not receiving the stations. Funny I'm getting 24-1 (26) on my Samsung 160 and my RCA DTC100, but not the 165. So it seems that what you are saying is true. Samsung doesn't want to admit their problem. Of course if I want to send it in they will "check it out and fix it if there's anything wrong". I suspect that they would then return it with no problem found. All this makes me leery of Samsung equipment but there are currently no other choices except the Zenith units (420 and 520) and they have their own set of problems. The RCA DTC200 has been delayed again and the Hughes E86 is getting old and has no DVI output. At .least I now know to quit futzing with my antenna. I do however plan on adding another pole and raising the antenna another 6-8' off of the roof (presently 5' above the roof) in an attempt to get 10-1.

Talon95-
I will normally only speak for my own stations, but I talked to Marty at WB yesterday. He wanted me to post the fact that he is only running his digital transmitter 12 hours a day from noon to midnight. If you knew how much the electric bill was for just the digital transmitter, you would understand immediately. FCC only requires the digitals to be on for 12 hours.

In my opinion, if the viewership for digital doesn't grow quicker, you might see more stations doing the same thing, or running lower power (which also lowers electric bills). It's a bad economy all around, hopefully it will turn around soon, and DTV can really take off.

FP Crazy-
I had the companies digital consultant in here yesterday and checked over all of my equipment and PSIP tables. Everything was fine. I brought up your problem and he was suprised to hear it. He said his best luck with reception has been with Samsung 165's, and that is with the same encoding equipment we use. While the possible reflections could have been problematic, the other receiver working kind of shoots that down. (although various receivers have different tolerances). He guessed that you just had a bad box. Let us know what happens with Samsung, and if they need a sample of our streams (something we do for troubleshooting) have him contact me.

jon

Jon,
If stations do start doing that, the least they can broadcast is 12 hours correct? If I remember right, April 1st started the mandatory 50% simulcast. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, would it help you out if Cox were to start HDTV service??
Have you talked with Cox about carriage of your digital channels??
If so, would your channels be available to us up here in Manhattan? I know we are Topeka DMA but we do not have a UPN or WB and the Fox is low Power.


thanks,
tim

Timmy-
Manhattan is not our DMA so we can't do anything for you, even on cable. Receiving a signal with a good antenna is the only way you can cross DMA lines, and you're too far out from us, sorry! Can you not get a UPN or WB out of KC? If not and you are on cable, I would talk to the cable company.

As far as the 12 hours, who knows if anyone else will end up doing it, I don't even know if we will be doing it. But as far as I know, the 12 hours is a minimum. It's a budgetary decision, we as engineers would prefer to leave the transmitters on, because you usually have less problems with the equipment. Every station is different.

By Cox having HD would only help us by encouraging more viewers to buy receivers and a larger number of eyeballs (some people can't put up outdoor antennas and can't receive with indoor antennas). Our management is talking to Cox, and I have no idea of timelines or other information. I would direct all questions to Cox.


I want to be careful and keep my posts to facts about our transmission streams. So I may not answer some posts or direct the questions to someone else or other forum members.

jon

I seem to be having trouble tuning UPN now, similar to the problem FP Crazy has been having. I'm showing 93% signal strength, but I get no picture or sound. Of course I tried a channel scan, but it didn't help.

Anyone else having problems?

Thanks,
Dave G.

Dave,

UPN is coming in fine here in Salina, but I am tuning it with an integrated TV(Hitachi 57XWX20B). I'm getting a good solid signal.

To everyone: Speaking of a good solid signal, today I re-scanned and I am picking up 8-02 and 8-03 from KPTS-DT out of Hutchinson. Signal strength according to my "integrated" meter is 85. No drop-out have been seen or heard.

Also, if anybody happens to notice KSNC-DT (out of Great Bend) on the air, please post it here on this thread

Thanks,

Bob

Dave-

The engineers from the transmitter manufacturer were in yesterday and last night. They had accidently switched the input to the wrong source at the transmitter building. They were monitoring the signal in such a way that they did not realize it was off. Our operators had notified me, but I was waiting for them to finish their work before dealing with it, because they had to take the transmitter off for a little while anyways.

Sorry about that.

Jon

Thanks for the update Jon, I was just a bit worried I was having receiver problems also since I have a Samsung. UPN is coming in fine now. In fact, I'm getting all 8 digital stations now with no problems (includes PBS 8-2 and 8-3). Pretty dang sweet. :cool:

I'm a little curious about PBS. Is there enough bandwidth on a single UHF channel for 2 hi-def signals (like PBS is doing)? Seems like I read somewhere that only 19.2 Mbps is available on one channel, which is barely enough for 1 HD signal.

Dave G.

Dave,

A single UHF channel can accomodate only one channel at 1080i, but more than 1 channel at lower resolutions. Don't quote me on this, but I THINK a 720p and a 480p channel can fit into 19.2 Mbps. Will PBS be broadcasting in 1080i or 720p?

Are 8-2 and 8-3 actually separate channels, showing potentially different content, or is there really just a single channel? In the past when I have seen a -2 subchannel, it has always been something "goofed up" with the station equipment. For example, 8-2 shows up in my channel list as "CH 3". 8-3 says "KPTS". Note that all other Wichita DT stations are -1.

David

Dave and David,
You CAN fit a 1080i and a subchannel on one 6 mhz channel. It doesn't look as good, but you can do it. That is what our PBS in Topeka will start doing Monday. PBS does use 1080i.

They can even go so far as one 720p channel, another video subchannel, and a subchannel with weather radar.

tim

PS
Jon will be able to answer much better, but I am pretty confident with what I said.

There's nothing preventing a station from compressing the hell out of their signal, but I would hope that any station broadcasting a true high definition signal would use the available bandwidth. On the other hand, if all they are doing is upconverting NTSC (which is mostly what's happening now, with the dearth of true HD programming), that seems like a waste of bandwidth. IMO, they might as well scan convert to 480p and then let the customers receiver upscale to whatever their display device requires. For example, my projector is a native 720p device. Plasma panels are typically either 480p or 720p. Broadcasting everything as 1080i is a waste of bandwidth.

David

I just hope the broadcast channels don't end up like the satellite providers with over compressed video. DirecTV is really bad about that on some channels.

Dave G.

David,

I'm receiving PBS on 8-1 which has the main feed and 8-2 which has children cartoons and shows the KPTS-DT logo. The bad thing is their signal is not stable. It jumps anywhere from 100 to 20 on my E86 causing the picture to lockup (as of May 3). Kind of behaves like they may have a loose RF connector somewhere in the system. I have no trouble receiving the other DTV stations (except 3-1) in McPherson.

Regards,
Chance

If you have a Samsung receiver and have had problems getting 24-1 or 36-1, please try rescanning when convenient.

I temporarily turned off our extended PSIP (which included our programming info) to try and track this problem down.

If this fixes receivers out there please let me know via posting. Include makes and models please.

Also if this causes someone else a problem that didn't happen previously, please let me know.

This should not affect anyone negatively (besides losing the schedule for a night or two). And I will put it back to normal soon. All of our test equipment is showing everything with PSIP as fine, but with a few more reports of problems with Samsungs, something is wierd.

Thanks for your help!

jon

I live in West Wichita and have a Samsung TS160 Directv STB...

I have scanned for digital channels about 10 times since May 1 and cannot pick up PBS digital....I receive all of the other local digital channels fine.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

CWMCALL

What time of day did you scan? Although I haven't verified this, I think they are only transmitting 12 hours/day. If you do the scan during their downtime, then you won't find anything. They're transmitting in the evenings for sure, so try it then. If you don't detect anything, then I don't know other than tweaking your antenna position.

Dave G.

CWMCALL,

The KPTS tower is about 30 miles from your location. Do you have a outside antenna or a inside model? If you have a inside antenna definitely move it around the room to find a hot spot otherwise I would recommend a outside model for this kind of distance to provide best possible signal and fade margin. Since the tree leaves came out the signal from 10-1 has dropped from 93-100 to an average of 85 (I'm 40+ miles from the transmitters). Without a outside antenna in McPherson you would have trouble receiving any DTV reliably.

Regards,
Chance

5-22-2003

I will be working with our encoding and PSIP equipment today trying to get a Samsung 150 to work with our signal.

During this you may lose our signals now and then.

Thanks
jon

Thanks to a generous viewer loaning me his Samsung 150, I was able to fix our problem. That's right, it was our problem, a box sitting in between our fiber and our transmitters was messing with our PSIP timing. All of the data was there, but it's timing wasn't exactly in the pocket, so some receivers dealt with it and showed the signal, and others wouldn't accept it and gave a "No Signal" even with strong RF.

His receiver started working on our channels instantly, so I went ahead and put our signal back to normal with all of the guide information. I rescanned again, and the Samsung was still good and showed all of our guide info.

If you have had problems getting our stations, please try rescanning ASAP (preferably during prime, when all of the local DTVs are on).

If you still have problems let me know, or if this fixes your reception let me know. Hopefully this will solve the problem for all models of Samsung.

jon (with fingers crossed)

Thanks Jon! Your openness about this stuff is great. And thanks to whoever loaned Jon their Samsung 150. That helps a lot of people.

David

I have received a couple of different msgs about our image getting squished and thought I would just post what is going on, so everybody knows.

We have a receiver from Fox that is exclusively for 16x9. This receiver is what digital viewers watch when we switch to network. Whenever we switch to it, our upconverter also adjusts for 16x9.

During MLB and NFL Europe for some reason Fox is sending a 4x3 on the 16x9 receiver so when our upconverter switches it makes it skinny. During prime if they have a 4x3 show they add sidebars and ship it as a 16x9. I'm not sure why they don't do this for the sporting events. I have an email in to them checking.

So for now, our operator has to identify if a show looks funny on the digital and flip a couple of switches to force it into 4x3. As was noticed our operators are still learning what to look for, I'm going to clarify that this week. Also, now that we know basically what is going to be 4x3 (NFL Europe and MLB for the most part) we will put notes on their logs to throw the switch.

So Fox is throwing a curve ball, and we weren't doing a good job of catching it. Promise it will improve, or maybe Fox will change their policy back to all 16x9 on the 16x9 receiver.

a long FYI.

jon

Maybe it's good news, there aren't many posts, everybody's busy watching DTV. Hate to flood the thread with info about our stations but...

Today at the beginning of the MLB game (2:30-3:30) I will be working with Fox engineers on what happened the past 2 weeks during MLB and NFL Europe (the extra skinny image). We tried some experiments during the week and could not find the culprit. So we're hoping to see it and solve it today, or maybe it cured itself.

Either way I won't let the disruption last too long.

Thanks
jon

Guys,
With all the announcements of coming HD channels, ESPN, INHD, Starz, Cinemax, HDNet Movies, and possibly some FSN channels, has anyone bugged Cox lately about them bringing HDTV to the Wichita, Topeka, and Manhattan areas?? I used to email the VP down there, but he left and I do not know who the guy is now.

Anyone????

I have not been able to receive channel 3.1 for a couple of weeks. Is it still on the air? Maybe I just have trouble with the trees now.

John

I haven't watched anything on channel 3 for awhile so I can't tell you if it's been on or not, but I am picking it up at 100% signal tonight.

David

I watch it almost every morning, hasn't been down recently.

BTW, I saw a commercial yesterday advertising Cox's HD service coming here to Wichita in the near future. It didn't say when, but it's probably only a few months away since they're advertising it now.

I may have to switch for DirecTV when they start offering HD. DirecTV has severely compromised the HD channels on their service by overcompressing some of them, particularly HBOHD.

Dave G.

Thanks guys, I guess the trees are just to high now.

John

talon95,
Where did you see that commercial? Was it on the channel plugging their digital service and high speed internet?? I have yet to see it, but mostly watch Directv so I might have just missed it.

tim

I think it was on channel 3 (forgot call sign) during the morning local news. It's an ad for their digital service and says "HD coming soon" or something like that. No indication as to the time frame of "coming soon" of course. I'd guess by winter or next spring at the latest since they're advertising it now.

I went into the downtown Cox office back in May, and the Customer service rep. told me that they would have HDTV in June. Is this June?? I've emailed them several times and all I get is we dont know. I am really frustrated with Cox. I dont understand why all these other citys have it and we dont. If anyone gets more info please post it.
Thanks!

I also talked to a Cox rep downtown in late May. He told me that he received a letter that day from the Cox management stating that the June date for HD had been pushed back a couple of months and that the goal was to have it available in time for Monday Night Football in September. My neighbor (who works for Cox laying cable) told me that they were in the process of upgraded the cable for increased bandwidth. He said that Cox is currently laying cable in southeast Wichita (south of Kellogg) and that our neighborhood (northeast Wichita) wasn't scheduled until late 2004. He did not know if the upgraded cable was required for HD. But if it is, HD maybe become available but not in all areas immediately. I give no guarantees on the accuracy of this info. Just passing on what I was told. Time will tell.

Vern,

What you say has the ring of truth. When cable Internet service rolled out, not every neighborhood could get the service. It wouldn't surprise me for the rollout to take a year. This is pure conjecture on my part as well.

David

Why really shoud it take that long? I believe the rule is pretty much if you have access to cable internet, you would be able to have access to HDTV. Is not all of Wichita 750mhz?

You guys down there are in a top 100 market, which Cox told Powell they would have up and running by the end of last year. And we keep waiting.

The thing about me is, I cannot get the OTA HDTV stations, so I am going to have to rely on Cox to provide them. Alot of you guys are pretty luck in the number of channels you can receive.

tim

Well, hopefully it comes soon. With D* screwing up their HD channels, I'm ready to try something different. I guess this is off topic, but does anyone know how the cable providers around the country are working the HD cable box deals? For example, are they making people buy them, renting them, or simply providing them with the channel package??

Doh, should have done a better search.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188007&highlight=cable+box+cost

talon95,
I know in OKC, Cox is making people buy the boxes. I think around $499. They seem to be making people buy them in all the new markets they start HDTV service so I would imagine that would continue.

Take a look here, it is OKC's HDTV page, they have a few networks, Discovery, and ESPN-HD, HBO, and SHO
http://www.cox.com/OKC/hdtv/hdtvchannellineup.asp

Thanks Tim.

Well, that just plain sucks though. If you read that thread I posted, there are a lot of other places around the country that are getting the boxes for low rental fees, or even the same fee as the SD cable boxes. Might want to look for my TS-160 on EBay in the coming weeks/months!

Tim,

I hope you are correct, that the upgrades COX did to support their Internet service has prepared them for HDTV. I know they installed a lot of fiber a couple of years ago, and new cable where it was required. It's probably a good bet that if you have Internet service, you may well be good to go for HD.

Prices on the cable boxes should come down pretty quickly. Remember cable modems were expensive at first. It wouldn't surprise me to see the boxes rent for $10 a month like the first cable modems, with an offer to purchase the box a year or so later. It seems reasonable to me that COX will invest in a few thousand boxes to (1) guarantee a supply, and (2) provide an option for people who don't have $499, or whatever the price of the boxes are. As availability improves and prices drop, people will start buying the boxes at CompUSA and returning the rentals, at which point COX will start offering them for sale.

Don't be TOO hard on COX for not offering the service yet. Mostly it has been larger markets that have rolled out the service, standards have only recently been set, prices for cable boxes have been high and supplies short, the first generation boxes are now being replaced by 2nd gen boxes which will have a longer "shelf life", and therefore be a better investment, and so on.

Up until now, DirecTV has offered only three HD channels, with two of those being extra pay channels. Now that they are offering ESPN, Discovery HD, and HDNet Movies, they start offering some competition to the cable companies. That's one factor. Consumer awareness of HD is improving to the point that most people know what it is, and are beginning to damand it. Prices on TV's have come down to the point where a critical mass of consumers can afford them. I don't KNOW anything, but I'm pretty comfortable in suggesting we will see COX roll out HDTV this fall. As has been suggested, September seems reasonable.

Now, if we could just get COX to share their plans with us instead of keeping it all a big secret...

David

Well, I haven't visited this forum for a while but had to put in my 2cents.
I tried to pick up digital channels OTA a couple of months ago with very limited success, and I live in NW Wichita (21st & Tyler area). I tried the Samsung something-151 box with a rooftop antenna in my attic (purchased from Radio shack, the second to the largest "traditional-style" antenna's they offered - for $60 I believe it was). I spent a couple of days trying to tune in digital channels and was only able to get 2 - 3 channels.
Not EVEN worth the investment. So I returned all the equipment and said the hell with it. Just for the heck of it I decided to checkup on this forum and it sounds like a lot of you ARE having real good look receiving channels (even from the EAST side of town)!!!! Even though I can't afford it right now, I was real close to giving this whole experience another shot (I'm on vacation 1st week of July and would have time to mess around with fine tuning antenna choice and orientation, etc) until I got to the last 2 pages of this thread. Sounds like Cox MAY have plans for HDTV sooner than later. :) I'm sure there would be no headaches trying to pick up signals and at least for me this would be more economical (especially if they don't make you buy your own equipment and just rent the equipment). I have cox high speed internet and digital cable now and I'm sure they would offer a decent package deal. Also, did you know they are offering telephone service in some areas of Wichita, soon to be all areas. I will be jumping on that bandwagon also!!! Again, package deals = discounts (hopefully). I've been talking to Cox about the phone service and pricing is going to be VERY competitive.

K, enough rambling....

Interesting about your experience with OTA HD. I was able to pick up several channels with a $2.99 Radio Shack bowtie pushpinned to the wall near my computer on the main floor of the house. I am within a mile of 21st and Tyler.

Hey, Somebody here who is chomping at the bit for cable, call Cox and try to speak with someone who KNOWS something about their plans. Not a salesperson, or even a "supervisor", but someone higher up. I don't know how you DO that, but there has GOT to be someone at Cox willing to talk about their plans.

David

Originally posted by haysdb
I don't know how you DO that, but there has GOT to be someone at Cox willing to talk about their plans.

The COX people were in doing a presentation at my office downtown on Friday discussing internet service. Since I have been waiting on buying an HDTV until they started carrying the channels on their system, I brought it up over a break. The VP that was there is part of the business services group but seemed to know what was going on. He indicated August is pretty much set in stone at this point. Said we'd get ESPN/Discovery/HBO/Showtime and most likely KWCH and KSNW to start with. The other local channels would show up later. Didn't have any details on the receiver yet other than the model has been decided on and they are working on getting them ready. This may change later but I'll be working with them through at least the end of July so I'll keep on them for details.

Now if they can just get their digital phone service in more areas of town!

Gee... only took a year and half for my first post!

I wonder why they would not include KAKE or the WB station??
If you get a chance, could you ask about the rest of Kansas, meaning Topeka and Manhattan?

thanks!

My prediction: It won't take long for them to have all the local stations. They'll be in hot water with the FCC if they carry just some of the local stations and not others.

David

Even if they do get those HD stations, I probably won't switch to cable. That is unless the address the picture quality of other stations, such as TBS, TNT, USA, etc. The quality of those stations on cable is so piss poor compared to satellite. If they could add those stations digital (and not what they are calling digital currently), then maybe I'd think about it.

In case you guys haven't heard, thought it would be appropriate for me to post :

Today (6-25 press release) Fox announced that it would begin 720p HD network broadcasts for the fall 2004 season. These broadcasts will include at least 50% of prime time shows.

Something new to look forward to.

jon

Surely this isn't news to anyone here, but I didn't see anything posted so I thought I would put it out there.

Cox is slated to start offering HDTV service on September 1. I talked to someone at Cox this morning and confirmed that, at least this is what their sales people are being told.

I got on a list of people who are 'interested' in the service, so apparently they will be contacting me with more info.

I'll wait and see.

It's news to me XRay, thanks for the heads up.

David

What they replys I have gotten back from Cox are saying early September also. I asked about which channels they would carry but they didn't say.

COX HDTV - A friend of mine called last week and they said it would be next summer at the earliest. I wonder who is confused over there.

Anyone know of a good ISF certified projection tv technician. I'm looking at getting mine cleaned and tuned up.

Who ISN'T confused at COX, when it comes to High Definition Television? If there is anyone with a CLUE, they are in hiding. Come out, come out wherever you are.

David

Well as of this morning... HD channels have started showing up on the digital cable channel guide.

610 = HBO East HD
615 = Showtime East HD
620 = ESPN HD
621 = Discovery HD

Showtime has program data while the other channels do not. Obviously if something is there it isn't viewable with the current non-HD Motorola boxes.

Looks like we are getting close!

I wonder if they will carry the 2 HD Net channels. That would be sweet. I've heard that HD Net is carried in some other cable markets - not sure which ones, but the HD Net Movie channel would be nice.

Let's hope they carry all the local digital channels. Especially PBS. I can't get PBS digital and can only get 3-1 if I sacrifice 12-1. Cable could cure that!

AWESOME!

That would be a nice start...those 4 channels plus local. I would still probably pass because the picture quality is so poor on the other stations (USA,TNT,TBS,WGN).

First thing I'd like to do is thank all of you who have posted and made this thread informative. I have been viewing it for quite some time and used it extensively in making my recent HD decisions.

I just got DirecTV hooked up Monday with the Samsung TS160 HD receiver, and all I can say is WOW!!! It's everything I'd hoped for. Monday nights football game was glorious. I'm picking up all of the locals digital signals quite well with a 5 ft. old style boom antenna. I'm about a mile south of the Kellogg and Maize intersection.

My only bummer is that Tivo cannot see and record the digital signals :( Even though Tivo could not record them in HD the digital signal is quite clearer and I would have liked to take advantage of this. I'm hoping that the HD Tivo, hopefully released later this year, will fix this little snafu.

As far as Cox is concerned, I have never been able to get a straight answer out of them and decided enough was enough and punted them for DirecTV. So far, I'm not disappointed.

A friend of mine says he has seen ads on TV for Cox HD "Coming Soon". They wouldn't be wasting their money on advertising if it weren't coming within 60 days. you'd think the fall season would be a good time to introduce it.

David

I finally saw the elusive Cox Hd ad also. And I agree, if it weren't in the somewhat near future they probably would not be running the ad.

I'm still stoked about my DirecTV setup though. I can't help but think Cox is going to stick it to the early adopters of the HD package.

Can you tell I'm somewhat dissatisfied with Cox. I'm not bitter though :O

Doug:
If Cox makes us buy the box instead of renting, I would not go with them except I cannot get the locals OTA. I think it wrong they will make us buy, citing they own ad saying they are cheaper than satellite becasue no no equipment costs.

I'll be curious how they roll it out. Buy or rent I want to see the price of their packages. I still think Satellite will be cheaper on a monthly basis and my initial outlay of money on equipment will pay for itself.

Maybe Cox will be competitive with their packages now that Dish Network will be offering locals in the next few months (DirecTV will soon follow I would presume). We'll have to wait and see.

I'm curious. If you cannot get locals OTA, why haven't you gone to satellite sooner? Would you not qualify?

I wish you all the best of luck. I know I'm happy, and only need my HD Tivo to complete the package :)

BTW - I haven't seen any baseball yet in HD :( I think ESPN's Sunday night game is broadcast in HD and I can't wait.

Well, as I recall, Cox is making people buy equipment in Oklahoma City, so it's likely they will here also. I know I'd rather buy a good D* receiver. From reading posts on this forum, I think the current generation of HD cable boxes are not nearly as good as the D* receivers.

I'd also like to have some sort of HD recorder. In the mean time, I've built an HTPC that records in 720x480 which should be fairly equivilent to the record quality of a Tivo. I can record 30+ hours (200 gig drive) and picture quality when recording from an HD channel is close to DVD quality. Unfortunately no DD5.1 though.

Dave G.
P.S. Yes, the Sunday night games are in HD. :)

I believe the potential is there for an computer HD card to record a cable signal, although I don't know of any that can. It's certain than none can record an HD signal from DirecTV or Dish. That'd be one reason for me to go with cable.

The most compelling reason to go with cable vs satellite is if, like Timmy, you are unable to pick up the local OTA HD channels. It's not feasable for satellite to offer local channels in high definition, and that's not a situation that's likely to change for a VERY l-o-n-g time. That is not an issue for me personally since I am able to pick up the local HD feeds with a modest attic-mounted antenna.

Another reason to go with cable is you get a nice discount ($10 per month, I think) off your Internet service if you subscribe to cable, except for Basic Cable.

Satellite charges an extra $5 per month for each additional decoder. If cable does not charge extra, this will make cable attractive for those with muliple TV's.

If you don't already have a dish, cable is going to look pretty attractive, even if it is slightly more expensive (say no more than $5 to $10) on a monthly basis. Hooking up a dish is certainly no big deal, certainly not as painful as the Cox ads make out, but it does mean running cables down the outside of your house, fiching wires, mounting an antenna for the local channels, and buying a decoder box for every TV, high definition or not, so it is more complex than cable.

I will be sticking with DirecTV for a year since I am contractually obligated to do so, but if Cox has their act together and provides a quality signal, a good selection of programming, and a price competitive with DSS, it'll be pretty much a no-brainer to switch to cable. Cable has a huge advantage over satellite, but maybe that's why Cox service sucks so bad. It's necessary in order for them to create a level playing field!

David

but if Cox has their act together and provides a quality signal, a good selection of programming, and a price competitive with DSS, it'll be pretty much a no-brainer to switch to cable.

When is the last time any cable company came even close to providing all of these options/features at one time? I guess this is at the heart of the issue. I have little faith Cox will provide anything competitive.

Another reason to go with cable is you get a nice discount ($10 per month, I think) off your Internet service if you subscribe to cable, except for Basic Cable.

The discount used to be $20 per month. Did the Internet magically get harder to reach? I know there are growth and infrastructure costs, but at $10-20 more per month per cable Internet subscriber in the Wichita area, equals probably paid for a long time ago. Until SBC get's their act together and provides better DSL coverage, Cox does not have to be competitive and will not. Plus what's up with a discount anyway? When I go to Dillons they don't charge me extra for my produce if I didn't by my steaks from them!! OK, now I digress. :D

Alright Dave, I'll give you the extra $5 per month for each satellite receiver. That's annoying. And the complexity issue of satellite compared to cable. This will definitely scare some people away.

But, if you compare cost vs. services rendered, I think satellite offers a better product and I don't see Cox stepping up to the plate and being competitive any time soon. So to say cable has a HUGE advantage is a stretch IMO.

OK. Enough crap about Cox and satellite. On my TS160 I have the option of HD output in 1080i, 720p etc. I currently have been watching everything with it set to 1080i. Everything looks good, I'm sorry, GREAT :) Has anyone played around with this setting and found any performance gains? Losses? I've switched it over to 720p and don't really see much difference but I haven't tried it on all HD channels.

Dave - Braves/Cardinals Sunday night. Not a bad game for my first foray into HD baseball. I'm stoked!

Originally posted by Frazld
Alright Dave, I'll give you the extra $5 per month for each satellite receiver. That's annoying. And the complexity issue of satellite compared to cable. This will definitely scare some people away.


Cox must be different than TWC in KC. When I had TWC they charged, IIRC, $5 for every digital receiver you had in your house. So for me that was not a cost issue difference between cable and satellite.

And I get 1.5Mbps down and 256Kbps up on my DSL for $39.95/mo through SBC. If I wanted to reduce the down to 768 and the up to 128 I could get it for $29.95/mo. Screw cable!

Cox is the same way. You can get analog on each tv for free but if you want a digital box on each Tv, they do charge $5 for each one.

Yea, the thing that's being overlooked is when you switch to digital cable (HD or otherwise), it has all the same problems/shortcomings as DSS systems. Also, as I said before, generally the receivers are not as well developed either.

The only advantage of switching to Cox will be the cable modem discount and the locals if you can't get them with an antenna.

Dave G.

I was attempting to be objective. Other than the entertainment value of playing the Devil's Advocate, I have little desire to defend a company I have little love loss for.

If Cox flubs HD, I will strongly consider switching to DSL for my Internet service. Without the discount, it's hard for me to overlook the often pathetic performance of my Internet connection. It used to be really fast, but a friend commented the other day "my modem is faster than that". I think he was exagerating, but I wouldn't wager any of my own money that he statement was false.

The primary inherent advantage I see for cable is that they have superior useable bandwidth to play with. How many more HD channels can DirecTV offer? My sources tell me the answer is "none", not without dropping multiple existing channels for each HD channel. I was strongly in favor of the DirecTV, Dish merger since this would have given the combined entity the resources necessary to compete with cable. DirecTV and Dish compete with each other, but I don't feel the individual companies can effectively compete with cable. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

David

Fresh info from a Cox employee:

Good News:
Cox now has HD sets on their property for testing. They are asking for Cox employees to be testers in their homes.

Bad News:
Cox are wanting their employees to pay $500 for the box. OUCH!

I would die to know the make and model of the HD cable boxes they are testing...(hint hint)

David

Just to make things more interesting... I talked to a guy I know who owns a home theater company in town. He said he's been approached by COX to be a reseller of the HD boxes. Apparently COX DOES NOT want to sell $500 boxes to us and deal with setup and compatibility issues. This conversation was supposedly with the COX regional manager over Kansas and Nebraska.

I don't know what to make of that.

I would expect COX to rent the boxes for some period of time, offer a purchase program at some point, and for the boxes to eventually be available at Best Buy. Unless of course COX goes with a proprietary box, which IMO would be seriously stupid. COX doesn't want to be in the equipment rental business. They want to be in the business of selling services. Initially they may even have to subsidize the cost of the decoders in order to induce people to pay the extra monthly subscription fees. An analogy is a security company taking a loss on installing a security system in return for a revenue stream. It may take two years to break even, but after that it's all gravy.

David

As of this morning KAKE-HDTV (ABC) is on channel 601. Nothing yet on the other locals.

Well, I called Cox again this morning.

I inquired about HDTV availability. The person I talked to confirmed the September date. I then asked whether they would be leasing the HDTV decoders or if I would have to buy the equipment. I was told that "the digital set top box that you already have will work for you, as long as your TV is ready for HDTV." Knowing this was wrong, I asked him to confirm that with someone else. He put me on hold and, upon return, emphatically restated that the current STB that Cox provides will work for HDTV.

At that point, I realized that I needed to get out of this conversation without asking any further technical questions.

I'm on hold with Cox right now, as I type, in hopes of finding someone who knows his a$$ from an HDTV Decoder.

Regards. Jay.

Okay, I called back and talked to another guy. He seemed to be 'in the know'. Apparently, Cox will NOT be leasing the HD STBs. He said that Circuit City will be providing the boxes for sale. They will be using the Motorola DCT5100.

I searched Circuit City's web site, but could not find pricing or availability for the 5100.

Anyone out there know where these boxes can be purchased?

I have not been able to find a source for the DCT 5100, but I did find a couple of references to prices being in the $300 to $400 range. There's tons of information available on this box.

Although the 5100 has only been around for about a year, I have already seen references to a 6000 series, one model to replace the 5100. Other models in the 6000 series will include PVR capability, one via an external firewire hard drive (model 6200) and the other with an integral hard drive (model 6208).

The DCT 5100 is pretty full featured. It has Component and DVI outputs, optical audio, USB connectors, 10/100 Ethernet (built-in DOCSIS modem), and I believe IEEE-1394.

David

According to this document, the DCT6200 will be out "2nd half '03" and will replace the DCT5100. This is also where I saw the $300-$400 price.

Digital set-top boxes (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2003/0803/ID1_08.pdf)

The big thing the 6200 offers is PVR functionality with the addition of an external IEEE-1394 hard drive. The processor is 2.5 times faster.

I have to revise something I said about the 5100. I'm not so sure it includes 1394 or DVI connectors. A photo of the back panel on Motorola's website did not show these connectors, and some press releases on the 6200 say it "adds 1394-DTV and DVI interfaces", further confirming the absense of these interfaces on the 5100.

David


Edit: According to DCT5100 FAQ (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/miatasm/HT/DCT5100FAQ.doc)
"DVI enabled boxes started being produced in Jan of 2003"
"Firewire IEEE-1394, Printer port, & HPNA ports, will not be provided or supported."

David,
Cox is setting the price at $499 in other markets, so I would assume that would the local price. I am not sure if we could buy one elsewhere and use it here or not.

tim

Originally posted by haysdb
I believe the potential is there for an computer HD card to record a cable signal, although I don't know of any that can. It's certain than none can record an HD signal from DirecTV or Dish. That'd be one reason for me to go with cable.

David

I have the MyHD MDP-100 and I can record anything. I can record OTA HD content (via transport stream) and cable too (via .avi or .mpg - I don't know which since i have never actual done it). If you mean digital cable, then I think you are correct, they don't record digital cable, though they should, it shouldn't be that hard.

Thanks for the info David and Tim.

That's a pretty steep price to pay, especially for a box that is on the way to being obsolete (the 5100, I mean). I really hope that I would be allowed to pick up a 6200 somewhere and use that. I would love to have PVR functionality along with HD.

Regards. Jay.

A PVR that can record HD (and retain HD PQ and DD5.1) would be a big plus. I'm guessing it would be around $1000 though, so better start saving your pennys.

Dave G.

I have a dct 5100 free from Comcast



Send me a Moto 62xx and I wll pay $1000!!!

Originally posted by talon95
A PVR that can record HD (and retain HD PQ and DD5.1) would be a big plus. I'm guessing it would be around $1000 though, so better start saving your pennies.

Dave G.

That might not be so far out of line for a 6208, but that would be an astronomical price for the 6200 which does not include a hard drive. I'm guessing $700 at first, dropping into the $500 range and replacing the 5100 12 months out. As long as the cable companies or their assignees have a corner on the market, prices will remain high, but if and when it's possible to buy the boxes at Best Buy or Ultimate Electronics, prices will drop quickly. Ultimately the market will not support $500 and up per cable box. The "early adopters" will pay, but the broader market will not. There is a lot of R&D to recover, but Motorola will literally sell millions of these things, and the price to manufacture each box can't be much more than an X-Box or PlayStation 2.

Having said that, I'm surprised that DirecTV HD boxes haven't moderated in price much since their release, so maybe all of this will take longer than I think. I keep hoping the market for HD will reach some "critical mass" and HD boxes will become commodities.

David

I think "Critical Mass" for HD is going to take a while David. Outside of this forum I know of no one that has or is willing to spill for an HD setup. Most of my friends come over, say ooh and ahh but all decline to next year at the earliest for pulling the trigger.

Maybe with Cox coming on board the "General" populace will jump on board a little quicker.

$1000 for a cable HD PVR does not sound too far from what I'm hearing for the DirecTV HD Tivo due out early 2004. The cheapest I've seen anything posted for an HD PVR unit of any kind is $800. And of course this is all still conjecture.

When I made the $1000 guestimate, that was for a PVR with an internal HD similar to a Tivo. If they would make a box that had firewire out, that could be just as good for me since I have an HTPC with a 200gig drive now. :) Of course I'm not sure what the chances are of that happening with all the copyright B.S.

Dave G.

The 6200 has PVR functionality but no integral hard drive. The 6208 is the same unit but with an 80 GB internal hard drive. $1000 is a reasonable number for the 6208.

100% of ABC's and CBS's "scripted" prime-time offerings this fall will be in High Definition. Beginning in September, if the "rumors" hold true, HD will be available to cable subscribers in Wichita. Prices on HDTV's have continued to fall. It's now impossible to NOT see HD when shopping for a new TV, and the price differential is no longer the obstacle it was say two years ago. HD will begin to gain serious momentum as all these factors come into play. Will 2003 be the turning point? Probably not, but I believe 2004 will. Perhaps NBC and FOX will even start offering some HD next season.

David

Well Guys, I think I have finally come to a different decision.

Despite all my research and wailing and gnashing of teeth over my desire for HDTV, I believe I have decided to wait.

I mean, with the limited amount of HD content available, I think the price-to-performance ratio is not there for me. A $500 equipment charge + additional monthly programming charges from COX isn't going to cut it for me, at least not until more HD content is available.

I think I have decided to just say 'heck with it' and go with satellite and a good PVR for now and just let HDTV 'grow up' for another year or so.

Also, I have to confess that I visited a friend in Dallas this week and I fell in love with his Dish Network PVR. :) I really think that setup is going to offer more bang for my buck.

Regards. Jay.

The DishNetwork PVR is cool and a step in the right direction for them, but does not even come close to Tivo.

I have had a stand alone Tivo for almost a year and I don't know how I would live without it now. A friend of mine has the DirecTV Tivo and with it's two tuners and DirecTV tie ins, well, it's pretty slick.

Don't know if you have researched Tivo at all but even with the extra monthly fee or if you choose the one time lifetime charge (like I did) it is well worth it.

Actually I haven't researched Tivo all that much. I guess I should look at it. What does it do that the Dish PVR won't do? By the way, I'm looking at the 721 (two tuner) model.

I think the Tivo has better software, I have not heard very good things about the Dish Network PVR's. I have a directv tivo and I would not give it up for anything(well, maybe for my kids, but I'd have to think about that one).

They are awesome.

Dish's PVR is really just a digital VCR. No brains. You tell it what you want to record and it records it.

A Tivo has some brains behind it. It will do everything that the PVR can do and then some. Season Pass is probably the most acclaimed feature. Imagine setting up your favorite show(s) with options like; First Runs Only, FR's and Repeats, or all episodes Tivo can find(Tivo carries 2 wks of guide data). Ok, now you have some season passes how about conflicts? In your Season Pass Manager you set the preference order of your shows and Tivo resolves all conflicts.

Have a favorite actor/actress? Genre of show? With Tivo's, Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down rating system you can instantly tell Tivo how you feel about a certain show you are watching. You can give 1-3 thumbs in each direction. Tivo will then use this to start classifying your viewing preferences and record shows for you, as long as they don't conflict, that it thinks you might like.

I hardly ever watch "Live" television any more. I typically don't watch my favorite shows the night that they're on because I can't stand the commercials :) i.e. Alias is usually viewed on Mondays so I can FW. What use to take you an hour now only takes about 40 mins. Sports is about the only thing I watch "Live" any more.

As you can see I'm pretty passionate about it as I think you'll find most Tivo users are. If you have any specific questions let me know, I'll be happy to try and answer them.

Thanks, Doug.

Actually, I do have questions, but it's probably a little off topic for this thread. I think I will peruse some of the PVR forums, though.

Regards. Jay.

Very true. This thread is probably not the one we should be talking about Tivo on.

One more thing though. Check out www.tivocommunity.com. Very good resource for all things Tivo.

Good Luck.

I'm new here, but am trying to catch up with this thread to see what my options are in Wichita.

As far as PVR's go, I run an old TiVo now and couldn't live without it. But it will be my last. I already have a Linux based MythTV box running and it will definitely take over eventually. If you haven't heard of the system, MythTV is an open source alternative to TiVo. For the same $1000 you guys are talking about here, I could build a dual tuner box with a couple of monster drives and nice DVI or component output. Oh, and one more thing... those dual tuners can be HD tuners. Of course, it wouldn't be compatible with Digital Cable, but I believe that with the digital tuner standard being proposed to the FCC, that will eventually make its way into PC tuner cards. Another big benefit of MythTV : distributed system. This means I could put that $1000 box in my basement on my LAN and put cheaper $400-$500 computers on each TV and they could all share the same content.

Anyways, thought I would throw this out there now. I'll be perusing this whole thread now to see what my HDTV options are in Wichita. I've got an HDTV tuner built-in to my Sony, but didn't know if there was any content out there to drive it.

Rufus,

If there isn't already a thread in the Home Theater Computers forum, would you be so kind as to start one? I had no idea there was a Linux option. FWIW, I think a Windows based PVR could also share content across a LAN. I will be finding that out shortly, since I have shows recorded on my desktop pc that I will try to play back via a new HTPC across the LAN.

David

FYI for anyone in the Salina area :

We have an antenna problem affecting both our analog 18 and our digital 17 that transmits from Vine Creek.

A tower crew will be out tomorrow to help diagnose the problem. Once we find the problem, we will have a better idea of how long before the repair is completed.

Didn't want anyone to get frustrated if they tried to receive us.

Thanks

jon

Talked to a Senior Network Engineer at COX today. He gave me a September 22nd date. Hopefully this one sticks.

He did say if you want to be among the first to get it - call and be put on the list.

EDIT: In the Wichita area, channel 22 has a crawling message that says it is changing to "Kansas NOW 22 - a better choice for local news and weather" on September 22nd. Sounds like the 22nd is a day for a few lineup changes and hopefully new HDTV packages.

COX HDTV Info (http://www.cox.com/Future/hdtv.asp#Q2)

They mention no specific dates yet, and they are vague on pricing, but it provides prety good information.

David

Just received a nice email from KAKE about their station ID bug. I hate that thing!

The Federal Communications Commission requires us to inform the public about
channel identification on an hourly basis. When we first launched our HD
signal the "bug" was the only method we had available to us. Since then, we
have determined other ways to communicate this information and still be in
compliance.

You'll be pleased to hear that effective Friday, August 29th, we are
removing the KAKE DT 21 bug from our broadcast signal.

Thank you for watching KAKE 21.

Bryan Frye
Marketing Director

KAKE TV
1500 N. West St.
Wichita, KS 67203


Good to hear this news!

Been lurking for a while, and read through this topic, some great info here. Today I received my SIR-T151 so I'm finally HD capable. :) Anyway I got everything hooked up and after playing with the outdoor antenna (10+ years old) I am getting all 7 local HD stations (8 if you count the 2nd KPTS). Anyway unfortunately the only thing HD tonight was ER at 9pm on 3-1 (since channel 12-1 had a preseason NFL game), when it first came on it was window boxed although the receiver was set to FULL, after a while I changed the channel during a commercial and when I returned it was full 16:9. About 10 minutes later it reverted back to windowboxed while I was watching it, shortly thereafter there was a thunderstorm crawl on the bottom of the screen. My question is this normal (windowboxed), did the weather crawl cause it, or did someone not throw a switch?

Methinks somebody not on the ball at channel 12.

I haven't watched it yet, but I did record it (MyHD card in my PC).

David

If your talking about a 4x3 image (black bars on the sides), then the weather crawl is likely the culprit. I've seen those stations go back to standard def. picture when they're putting up weather graphics. Kinda annoying, but apparently their equipment can't do the overlay in HD. :(

Dave G.

Dave, I guess it could have been 4x3 since the show is letterboxed anyway I had black bars all the way around. I had read someone mentioning the weather scroll would cause problems, but I didn't have anything else last night to watch. Tonight looks a little better on the HD front more choices.

Doug

edison,

I watched the first half of the Chiefs-Rams game and saw nothing wrong. The station was broadcasting a 16:9 image (it is, after all, an "HD" channel, and HDTV's are, by definition, 16:9), which accounts for the black bars top and bottom on a 4:3 TV. The program itself was 4:3, which accounts for the black or gray bars left and right. And then there was the overlay along the bottom of the active image area showing the severe weather alert.

I skipped past all the huddles so I could have missed some of the aspect ratio changes you mentioned.

I look forward to Chiefs games being in 16:9, but I don't suppose that will happen on a regular basis for a year or two or...

David

Originally posted by haysdb
I watched the first half of the Chiefs-Rams game and saw nothing wrong. The station was broadcasting a 16:9 image... -SNIP- I look forward to Chiefs games being in 16:9, but I don't suppose that will happen on a regular basis for a year or two or...

David

David, I was referring to channel 3-1, NBC was showing ER which changed a couple times between full 16x9 and windowboxed.

Supposedly the first Chiefs game of the regular season is CBS's HD of the week (8/7 vs. San Diego), but the regular basis thing is probably a ways off. I'm looking forward to it as it will be my first HD game since there is no more Monday Night preseason.

I have to admit that I haven't watched a lot of HD lately. My eyes have become accustomed to regular old TV. I opened up MyHD on my desktop PC, intending to watch something I had recorded, and the US Open was on. WOW. Gorgeous. I've had HD in my home for about a year, so I should be hard to impress, but it's still occasionally shocking just how much better HD is than NTSC, and this is on a 19" screen! Of course, it's a 1280x1024 LCD panel at a distance of 18", which is roughly the same field of view as my 110" (diagonal) projection screen at 10'. Anybody claiming they "can't see the difference" or doesn't find the difference "significant" is smoking something, blind, not close enough to the screen, or watching on something less than true HD.

Oh, the (OTA) picture is breaking up a bit because of the rain, but not so bad that it's unwatchable.

David

Had a surprise in the Eagle this morning... for those of you that don't get the paper COX HDTV was on the front page. It is available TOMORROW!!!! They said several hundred users have already signed up and purchased the boxes from local retailers such as Hephner TV on Washington just South of Kellogg. If you subscribe to HBO/Showtime the corresponding HDTV feeds are free. KAKE is free as well. Discovery and ESPN HD are $5.95 each or $9.95 for both. More $$$ to COX. :(

EDIT: Here's the article: http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/6666659.htm

$9.95 without HDNet or HDNet Movies? Well, at least I don't have to decide between Cox and D* right now. :)

Dave G.

They should have added a few more locals before starting this.

Same goes for Topeka, seems they have only signed one station. I heard they were going to announce INHD also sometime.

Does the HD cable box they use decode OTA HD?

David

No, it does not David, they just do QAM.

Thanks for the info, Hippster!

I'm really happy to see HDTV begin to make more of an in-road into the Wichita area. However, I think I'll stand by my initial 'bang-for-the-buck' analysis of this service. I'll give it a year to grow up and then take another look.

I did find the article quite interesting, though, especially this quote:

Several hundred customers have already signed up for the new service, said Kristen Peck, a spokeswoman for Cox Communications How can that be, Kristen? When I had been practically begging Cox for the last month to let me sign up for the service? I couldn't even get pricing information. I was told everything from 'We'll put you on the list' to 'We'll send you some information someday'.

I know that all just sounds like sour grapes (largely because that's what it is :) ). I'll tell you, though, the way Cox has handled this roll out only served to douse my enthusiasm and cause me to look around for better alternatives.

Regards. Jay.

Well after reading the article I was a little sour too...pay $500 or whatever for the box and then get only channel 10 in HD?? Unless you want to pay even more over the digital subscription for ESPN, HBO, SHO, and Discovery...what a rip. So I got on Ebay and bought an OTA receiver, the samsung one...if anybody here has this, how hard is it to get the local channels? Do I need a big antenna? Thanks, Steve

Steve,

Depending on where you are, you might be able to get most of the locals with a coat hanger. I'm just a few miles from the towers and that is the case with me. I put an antenna in the attic and have no problem getting all the local channels. But there are many factors that could make any particular site a more difficult proposition.

I'm guessing cable will have all the local channels (in High Def) within a month or two. I can't imagine why it would be in anyone's interest for that not to be so. As it stands, a person would need both a cable box and an OTA receiver to get all the available channels. That makes no sense.

David

Hey David,

Could one get by with one of the antennas that 'snap on' to the sat dish itself?

Also, you say that you are a few miles from the towers, where are the towers located?

David thanks for the info, actually I live south of the Lowes off of E. Kellogg, hopefully I can get away with one of those TV top ones from radio shack??. Once cox gets off their behinds I might think about it, the way it stands now I am considering the dish network when the 921 comes down in price- what a year from now?? Besides, if I bought one when it comes out my wife would kill me (because I justspent money on the OTA receiver), plus, I'm a little scepticle too because I just had my replay TV hard drive crash...and it was only 11 months old..what a bummer...

Steve,

I'll be very interested to hear how this works out for you. Did you buy the SIR-T151? I see dozens of them for sale on ebay. Please post your experiences here as they come about.

Thanks in advance. Jay.

Jay - Yes that is the model I purchased..$202.50 + shipping..not too bad I guess, I just hope I can get good reception w/o putting an antenna on my house!

Ok I read the article today, and I can't believe people are willing to do this $500 for one OTA channel + $10 a month for 2 more channels (and thats if you already subscribe to HBO/Showtime). The article mentioned other local stations said they hadn't been contacted yet by Cox. I will stick with my Samsung T151 I got on eBay for $200 as I'm getting all of the local stations. I have watched a something each night so far to try to get a overview and the best stuff I have seen was CSI Miami, The Tonight Show, and Any Given Sunday.

Steve, you shouldn't have much trouble right now I've got my STB hooked up to an old (10+ year old VHF/UHF combo) antenna and I get all the stations. I plan on trying the Zenith Silver Sensor (indoor UHF) as the old antenna doesn't give great signal strength on a couple of the channels. If the Zenith doesn't provide satisfactory results, I will go to the RS outdoor UHF only antenna (75-UR I think).

Jay, the antennas are all to the NW of town there is a message in this thread somewhere that tells exactly I believe.

Okay now for a question, since I've had mine set up for about a week. Does WB broadcast Smallville, and Everwood in 16:9? I caught Smallville Sunday afternoon, and Everwood last night but they were both "zoomed" on my tv. I checked a SD tv in the house and notice in 4:3 they were not letterboxed.

Doug

I live on Pawnee between Web and Rock on the east side of town. The RS Double Bowtie works great for me sitting on top of my TV. The Zenith is supposed to be a little better, so it's probably the one to get if you don't want a large outdoor/attic antenna. Don't get one of the clip on antennas for a sat. dish, their junk from what I've read.

Dave G.

Hey Doug, I have a question about our receivers. I read that on the back of the box there is a switch to change from 720p to 1080i etc, do you need to switch to the correct mode when switching channels? I notice fox and cbs are different and am wondering if they look better if you switch the box to what the station is broadcasting? Thanks
Steve

Originally posted by KS-Jayhawk
Hey Doug, I have a question about our receivers. I read that on the back of the box there is a switch to change from 720p to 1080i etc, do you need to switch to the correct mode when switching channels? I notice fox and cbs are different and am wondering if they look better if you switch the box to what the station is broadcasting? Thanks
Steve

Nope that switch is for the output format to your tv. If your tv is capable of displaying both 720p and 1080i you could use the switch on the appropriate channel to watch without upconverting/downconverting the signal. My tv doesn't support 720p so my box is set to 1080i, that way even if it's receiving 720p (or 480p) it upconverts to 1080i for my set (only ABC, and FOX are using 720p I think).

Doug

Doug, my TV does both, I just wonder if I leave it set at 1080i and the signal is 720p will the 720p look as good as is should/could after it is upconverted to 1080i.....

Steve, that I can't tell you. I can say the programming I watched on ABC upconverted to 1080i looks good, for example last nights movie. Since your TV supports both I would try it and see I would think the 720p signal would look better than the 1080i but I've read so many debates it's hard to tell without being able to look at them. The only downfall may be it's a small switch, and if you put the box in a cabinet it will be hard to get to.

Doug, the switch being small and in the cabinet was one reason for asking all of this...sounds like a pain to switch, and if there is no real improvement or debatable improvement, I guess I should just leave it in 1080i - Thanks for the info!! Steve

Steve, that seems like a really good buy on your STB. I may have to go that route myself. Of course, now I need to decide which antenna I need.... and my HT is in the basement.... so it will probably have to be an outdoor model..... that means running more cable.......geez, it never ends, does it? :)

I'm not ignoring anyone, it's just that not only do I not have any definitive answers, but the questions have already been answered as well as I could have. Of course, that won't stop me... :D

The precise locations of the towers can be found at www.antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org)

Ultimately all the digital channels will be carried on cable, but I would conjecture that Cox is in a temporary bandwidth bind due to carrying analog and digital, and now high definition. There is no quick or easy solution to that problem. For each HD channel they offer, one analog or multiple digital channels will have to go. If they ask me, I can tell them which channels to get rid of :D, but they will make some poeple mad no matter what they do. Maybe I'm wrong and bandwidth isn't an issue, but it sure seems like it would be an issue.

I can't offer any guidance as to what kind of antenna will be needed in SE Wichita, but you might as well TRY a set top antenna like the Silver Sensor, and then go to the trouble of a roof or attic mounted antenna only if you have to.

The RS Double Bowtie works great for me sitting on top of my TV Dave, How well does it work when you are sitting in FRONT of your TV. :p

Steve, I think you will be happy with the switch permanently in one or the other position. If you have a fixed pixel display (Plasma, LCD, DLP), chances are you will want to use 720p. For a CRT, 1080i might be better. I'd go with what the "native rate" of the TV, otherwise you will be converting the signal TWICE, once in the box and again in the TV.

XRay, no, it never does. ;)

David

Originally posted by haysdb
I'm not ignoring anyone, it's just that not only do I not have any definitive answers, but the questions have already been answered as well as I could have. Of course, that won't stop me... :D

The precise locations of the towers can be found at www.antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org)

Ultimately all the digital channels will be carried on cable, but I would conjecture that Cox is in a temporary bandwidth bind due to carrying analog and digital, and now high definition. There is no quick or easy solution to that problem. For each HD channel they offer, one analog or multiple digital channels will have to go. If they ask me, I can tell them which channels to get rid of :D, but they will make some poeple mad no matter what they do. Maybe I'm wrong and bandwidth isn't an issue, but it sure seems like it would be an issue.

David

This site:
http://100kwatts.tmi.net/tv/ICT.html

will give you Exact locations, with latitude and longitude.

David,
On cable, if Cox is doing what everyone else is doing, then 2 HD channels = 1 analog channel. I think they probably have enough bandwidth, but they are just perhaps having trouble with the transition to the new people. Why would they not talk to the other stations before they launched a HD service?? I just think it's a cluster over there and they are not totally sure what they are doing.


Another thing: If you guys look at the page for Cox OKC, we would be paying $100 more for the box, and $1 a month more for the two channels, ESPN and Discovery that OKC, and there are other cable co. in the US that give you 5 or 6 channels for $9. I just wish I could get HD OTA, then say screw Cox.

XRay - My TV is in the basement too...I am going to pick up the silver sensor today at best buy (Thanks for the info David). Living in SE Wichita AND having the TV/Antenna in the basement may spell disaster, but I'm going to try it...if it doesn't work I guess I'll return it all and wait for Cox/Echostar.....

Excellent, Steve! I was thinking of the silver sensor as well, but was wondering if it would work in a basement.

I'd really appreciate it if you post your results here. Man, a Samsung from ebay + Silver Sensor....hmmm... that would mean HD locals for around $250.

Regards. Jay.

Steve, just a note the Silver Sensor is on sale right now (if I remember correctly) at Circut City for $27.xx (while BB was $39.99).

I'm assuming tomorrow nights ABC game will be HD does anyone know if that is correct?

According to TitanTV, the game is in HD.

David

Thanks Edison - Went to Circuit City and picked one up...my OTA should be here tomorrow so keep your fingers crossed for me that it works!!

If this silver sensor doesn't work for me - does anybody know where I can get a good antenna that can be installed in an attic? Thanks, Steve

Radio Shack has some UHF ones for around $20 and any antenna (as long as it fits) can be placed in an attic.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

Ok, I just won my ebay auction for a Samsung receiver. Steve, now I'm REALLY interested in whether that Silver Sensor works for you. :)

Regards. Jay

Jay - I should find out tonight..the FedEx site shows that it has been delivered... :D keeping my fingers crossed about the silver sensor :confused:

Jay - well the silver sensor worked, it received fox, abc, upn, and wb - it did not receive nbc , pbs, or cbs - so I took it back and exchanged it for a terk32 that I am going to install in my attic - but it was 100 bucks - hopefully I will receive cbs and nbc with it?? I hooked it up last night in the basement and held it - I watched the fball game for a few minutes in HD..ahhh it was cool!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, not a terk. Take it back and get a much cheaper model. Terks are crap.

(this message was not intended to be rude, but to save you the money of a terk)

Well, that's sort of good news. I wonder if I'll have better luck with the Silver Sensor. I'm in Goddard, and I'm told that the towers are in Colwich, so I'm not far away. I think I'll pick up an SS once my receiver gets here and check it out.

Good Luck, Steve, and thanks for keeping me posted. Jay.

Steve, I too have heard that the TERK's weren't worth the price you would probably be better to get a regular outdoor antenna and mount it in your attic. I'm sure it would be more of a hassle to mount than the TERK, but you should be able to pick up a good antenna for 1/3 the price.

I'm going to pick up the Radio Shack antenna (15-2160) today and see if it strengthens my signal any. It's a UHF only model but is only $21.99 at RS (of course the only ones left in town seem to be at the RS at Maize & 21st in New Market Square.)

I watched the game last night and it was beautiful. I can't wait to watch the Chiefs Sunday on CBS.

Hey Timmy - are they really crap or are they just over priced? I already have the stupid thing put together, the only way I would take it back is if something was actually better.....(I'm just that lazy!) Steve

Edison - the terk32 is a UHF only model as well..and it is relatively small and will fit easily in the attic (not a whole lot of space up there) Since I live in SE Wichita I can only hope to receive CBS on Sunday so I too can watch the game (in HD)

Jay - I just re-read your post, I'm sure living in Goddard will make for great reception...I'm jealous! Steve
Ohh and I have a question for everybody - Fox and UPN transmit digital - but they have no HD content?? Thanks

Originally posted by KS-Jayhawk
Hey Timmy - are they really crap or are they just over priced? I already have the stupid thing put together, the only way I would take it back is if something was actually better.....(I'm just that lazy!) Steve

Price wise, yes they are way overpriced. I think from reading here I remember that others are using wineguards or radio shack and they got equal or better performance.

Do a search on terk in this locals forum, and you will see.

If it's put together, I guess I would say if it get the channels you want, keep it, if not get your $$ back and try another antenna.

Finally tracked down a Motorola DCT-5100 here in town... the going rate everywhere is a very expensive $599. Bought the thing and sped home to set it up. COX informed me that Motorola forgot to inventory a bunch of boxed destined for the retail channel. This inventory is what allows COX to see the encryption keys, etc. when users call in with serial numbers. Bottom line - my box can't be activated until Motorola fixes things.

COX then called back 2 hours later and wanted some more numbers from the box. This got the box into the system and the COX software was able to download. Box was ready to be activated - problem #2. No luck though so COX is coming tomorrow afternoon to check my signal strength.

Has anybody had any problems with their over the air reception lately? I was getting 80%+ on all stations up until Sept 1. Now, I can only get 24-1 and 36-1 at 20% and no other stations. Is it any coincidence that I suddenly lost signal strength the day Cox went live?

Well, being the impatient man that I am, I went out and picked up a Silver Sensor while I am waiting for my OTA receiver to be delivered. I've been messing around with receiving analog channels, with varying degrees of success.

Is analog reception any indicator of success with the digital channels?

Regards. Jay

Jay,
Somewhat and not really. Like in my situation, it is of no factor, since I can get a couple of the analog channels from Topeka, but no digital channels. Most of the digital power levels are far less that their analog counterparts. But remember, digital is an all or nothing affair, unlike analog where the signal will get snowy and fuzzy, the digital will just go away.

tim

Originally posted by Hippster
Finally tracked down a Motorola DCT-5100 here in town... the going rate everywhere is a very expensive $599. Bought the thing and sped home to set it up. COX informed me that Motorola forgot to inventory a bunch of boxed destined for the retail channel. This inventory is what allows COX to see the encryption keys, etc. when users call in with serial numbers. Bottom line - my box can't be activated until Motorola fixes things.

COX then called back 2 hours later and wanted some more numbers from the box. This got the box into the system and the COX software was able to download. Box was ready to be activated - problem #2. No luck though so COX is coming tomorrow afternoon to check my signal strength.

Hippster - I live in Wichita and picked up a 5100 from Advance Audio 09-06-03, it took Cox approx 2hrs w/2 Reboots to get everything functioning. The only local channel in our area available in HD (from Cox) is KAKEHD Channel 601. I have a OTA HDTV Receiver to pickup the remaining local channels - rabbit ears sitting on my $4000 TV is embarassing. =) The only issue I have is justifying $600 for a HDTV receiver that only offers 6 channels, I receive more channels using OTA. I am debating whether or not to return the 5100, I am a little PO'd about the price gouging (not from AA) for this atsc receiver.

scout

Well you guys were right about the Terk....the reception of the terk (in the attic) is no better than the silver sensor on top of my TV in the basement...thankfully I can send the OTA back to the store I purchased it from on Ebay (or if anybody here wants to buy it, I paid $202 for it, let me know before the end of the week!) Does anybody know if the local channels that dish network will be offering (or is offering) are HD? Thanks, Steve

Sorry to hear that it's not working out for you, Steve.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you'll fair any better with Dish Network. I just checked out their website and the HD pickins' are pretty slim.

#1 - We don't qualify for locals yet. I'm told that we on on Dish's list and they MAY be available in October.

#2 - Here are the meager HD options currently available on Dish (although I'm told that these choices might expand soon):

-Showtime (Free with subscription to Showtime)
-HBO (Free with subscription to HBO)
-CBS (Free with purchase of local channels package, $4.99 without locals)
-PPV (Prices vary)
-NBA TV (Free for HD subscribers)
-DiscoveryHD ($7.99/Mo)

Of course, you'd also have to get the Model 6000U receiver for $500+. Apparently, you can add an OTA cartridge for that receiver for $150.

Sounds to me like a whole lot of $$ for not much more HD than you already have.

Jay.

I found this today - but you all probably already know!!

LITTLETON, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 5, 2003--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) announced today that the company's DISH Network(TM), America's fastest growing satellite subscription television service, will begin offering four channels of high-definition entertainment in a single, low-priced package Sept. 16.

Further establishing itself as the leader in high-definition initiatives, DISH Network will offer ESPN HD, Discovery HD Theater, HDNet and HDNet Movies in a new package for $9.99 per month or $109.89 annually, the lowest prices in the industry.

Jay,
When Dish does do Wichita locals, they won't be in HD. And they CBS they carry will not be available to you either since Wichita CBS is not owned by CBS.

Neither DISH nor DirecTV will be offering local channels in high definition. They don't have the bandwidth and I don't see this changing anytime soon. This is a non-issue if you can pick up the local channels OTA since most if not of all the D* receivers can tune in over-the-air HD. With a modest antenna in my attic, I am able to tune ALL local digital channels (ABC,CBS,NBS, FOX,UPN,WB,PBS) seamlessly with the satellite channels.

On another topic, Cox commercials where they pick on the "shortcomings" of satellite dishes are funny, and yet insulting and inaccurate as well. I can tune each of 4 sat boxes to a different channel. Clouds and frisbee throwing children are never an issue. Installation really wasn't that hard. On the other hand, with cable, any problem in the wired network upstream of your house can cause you grief. I put up with crappy cable quality for YEARS in my last house. I'm not saying cable doesn't have some advantages over dish, but the reverse is also true. I was prepared to switch back to cable, but the Cox commercials irritate me just enough that it makes a switch back unpalatable. In fact, with the incredible slowdown of my cable internet connection, I'm considering switching to DSL. At that point I wouldn't be paying Cox one dime. There would be some satisfaction in that.

David

Don't worry, David, you don't sound bitter at all. :)

I know what you mean, this latest round of commercials from COX have been irritating me as well. They're well done and sort of funny and clever, but, they're very misleading, if not outright lies.

Since I just got satellite, I'm having COX come out to shut my cable down to just internet + limited basic for the local channels. I'm going to have them do some rewiring as well. My channel quality, especially on the lower numbered channels (3, 10, etc) is pretty awful. Mostly, however, I'm getting really tired of having to 'reset' my cable modem 2-3 times a day.

On the OTA HD topic: I believe you are in west Wichita, right? What kind of modest antenna do you have mounted in your attic? Do you have to rotate it to get all 7 channels, or can it be aimed and forgotten?

Sorry for all the questions, but my receiver should be here this week and I want to be ready to go. Thanks, Jay.

A few niblets of info from our station.

1 - Our Salina analog(18) and digital(17) are back on after a transmission line repair on the tower over the weekend.

2- Our Wichita digitals are at full power and have been for some time.

3 - Analog reception of UHF analog channels (24, 33, 36) is a good start for
knowing if DTV OTA will work at your site. But does not guarantee reception, because of various other issues.

4 - We are the gathering site for DirecTV, they installed the necessary reception equipment (NTSC only) and their digital muxes 2 weeks ago. They are only waiting on the fiber to be installed that they will be outputting to, and whatever patching is necessary on their side. But they are close to completion. As far as pricing or any other info, refer to them, just thought I would pass on the fact that people are working on it. It's free OTA in Wichita, but this will help people in the more remote parts of KS who want to see local content.

Someone commented on us broadcasting digital and not offering HD content. This is all under control of the networks, UPN offers nothing, FOX gives us 480p in widescreen which we pump up to 1080i and pass on. FOX will be upgrading to 720p for Fall 2004. At that time we will switch to 720p, and upconvert any non network material to 720p instead of 1080i.

As always, if anyone has any problems with our signals or questions about or stations feel free to post, or email me directly.

jon

I take it none of you are having any problems with your ota reception. Any idea what could cause my reception to drop from 80% to 20% on all channels?

Jon,
I for one appreciate your updates! They help separate the rumor from truth. I receive all of your channels rock solid in McPherson. Thanks for the good work!
Regards,
Chance

I have "heard" that Cox will have ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS in high definition within the next two weeks. A friend said his TIVO channel guide is already showing the channels, and he even gets sound, but no picture since he does not have an HD box.

Other "rumours"

Best Buy will eventually offer the Motorola boxes. It's an issue of supply - they can't get them, or at least enough of them to justify carrying them.

The Motorola 6208 will eventually be an option. "When" depends on availability.

The reason Cox isn't actively promoting their HD offering is because of the limited supply of boxes.

This information comes from a friend who talked to a guy who works for Cox, i.e 3rd hand.

David

Chris - Ijust hooked up my OTA with attic antenna last Friday - I live in SE Wichita (Lincoln and 127th St East) The only channels I receive are ABC, FOX, UPN, and WB - and I get the signal in at about 30%...I wish I had it up before Sept 1st so that I too could compare. On a side note I finally got some HD content last night (could not receive any over the weekend) which consisted of the ABC shows - city slickers, alias, and the practice...NONE of it looked like it was HD....maybe DVD quality...I saw part of the football game last Thursday (while holding the antenna in the basement) and it was awesome, but all of the effort/expense is not worth it to just watch sports....

Originally posted by haysdb
I have "heard" that Cox will have ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS in high definition within the next two weeks. A friend said his TIVO channel guide is already showing the channels, and he even gets sound, but no picture since he does not have an HD box.


TiVo reports the following locals:

601 - KSNW
602 - KAKE
603 - KWCH
604 - KPTS

I went up to 620 and couldn't get any other locals to show up (KSAS, WB33, UPN).

The only sound I get is from KAKE. If my TiVo doesn't encounter a signal it reverts back to the previous good channel. Perhaps your friend was hearing KAKE each time he tried to tune a channel with TiVo. That's what happened to me.

Steve, do you not have the ability/choice to install an outdoor antenna? I picked up that RS 2160 the other day and mounted it Sunday it gave me 2-3 notches more of signal that the old VHF/UHF combo I had, but both were picking up all 7 stations outdoors. I never did try a Zenith SS yet to see if there was any difference, but I assume it would be worse as I live in a brick house. Anyway to my point your more than welcome to have my old VHF/UHF combo to try if you still have the cable running to the attic anyway. The VHF side is missing some elements but the UHF side is complete.

Edison - I can install outside if I get approval from the homeowners association...easier to do the attic - I don't have to get permission!!

Originally posted by klemsaba
TiVo reports the following locals:

601 - KSNW
602 - KAKE
603 - KWCH
604 - KPTS

That's interesting... my TiVo's don't show those yet. What is even more interesting is that KAKE is currently 601... will they be moving a channel already?

Well, just got home and my reception is still low...I can only get fox. Looks like no Monday Night Football in HD tonight!! Guess I'll have to look at mounting the antenna outside versus in my attic. Anybody got any advice on mounting it to my roof?

Originally posted by Hippster
That's interesting... my TiVo's don't show those yet. What is even more interesting is that KAKE is currently 601... will they be moving a channel already?

Maybe it will show up after tonights update. BTW, have you checked if your TiVo has made a successful call lately?

I checked TiVo just now and I had a 'lineup change has occured' message. It came through Sunday evening.

Originally posted by XRay
Don't worry, David, you don't sound bitter at all. :)I was holding back! :D

On the OTA HD topic: I believe you are in west Wichita, right What kind of modest antenna do you have mounted in your attic? Do you have to rotate it to get all 7 channels, or can it be aimed and forgotten?Yes, I am in NW Wichita. My antenna is a UHF only Channel Master 4221 4-way bowtie. I set the orientation once and I've not had to fuss with it.

David

Jon@KSAS/KSCC - Thanks for the info - a whole year until fox sends us HD content :( Is there equipment to upgrade here or is it just corporate that can flip a switch and send it to us, the reason I'm asking is because the Super Bowl...that would be killer in HD!! Thanks, Steve

The stupid weather crawl / map is ruining broadcast HDTV in Wichita. I just got this installed and to see a program that is supposed to be HDTV in this case the dreadful 8 Simple Rules... with the awful black bars on the sides is inexcusable!

Let's see my fellow Kansans....how many times do you see that stupid map a year? Yeah way too many to have this problem. Anyone contact them about it?

Imagine a blizzard or something during the Superbowl, it would ruin it!

I hope you never have a tornado heading for your house. Relax. Its only TV.

Well I missed 8 Simple Rules last night but flipped over and noticed that the first episode (7:30-8) of According to Jim was 4:3 but there was no weather crawl. The second (8-8:30) was also, until 10 minutes or so in then it popped into 16:9, and stayed through Less than Perfect. While I think the crawl probably did screw with 8 Simple Rules, I think someone forgot to flip the "switch" after it was over, if its as simple as that. The best scenerio I've heard is to call the station on the news line and ask for an engineer. While this won't keep the weather crawl from affecting the HD presentation its only a matter of time before the equipment used to generate the crawl gets updated too.

On other notes I contacted 2 of the local stations and got replies to HD questions maybe we could group all the contact info into one post, as I know some is spread throughout this topic.

mheffner@wbkansas.com - WB KWCV
dmcclintock@kpts.org - PBS KPTS

KS-Jayhawk-

We are doing what we can as far as flipping a switch...
We upconvert everything to 1080i, whether it's Fox at 480p, or Roseanne from an old analog videotape. We crank it up here, but the source is not always the highest quality.

It's somewhat like you upconverting or downconverting with your STB to match your screen's native format, except we are using a professional, very expensive box to do the upconversion.

When Fox goes to 720p, it will be a native format, they send it to us 720p, and we pass it through, much like other networks/affiliates are doing.

hope that helps
jon

Well, I'm finally setup with my OTA receiver. I've been out of town, so I just got a chance to set it up.

The Silver Sensor didn't work very well for me. I was able to get, I think only 3 channels with it. I ended up going to Primetime Communications and picking up a Winegard 7210 for $85. I know that's probably a little overkill, and I don't need the VHF elements, but it was available locally, and it is the antenna that Primetime installs in this area and they've had good luck with it.

Anyway, this Sunday, I spent a lot of time in the attic. In addition to mounting my antenna, I shored up and installed 3 ceiling fans. My knees are killing me, and I've breathed about all the fiberglass I can stand! :)

So, I can pick up all 7 channels now. Channel 19 (CBS) is a little touch and go, but I haven't actually aimed the antenna yet, I just pointed it in the general direction of Colwich / Hutchinson. I expect that a little positioning will bring in 19 reliably.

One interesting thing, in all my testing (antenna on the box in the garage; antenna suspended from the ceiling in the garage; antenna propped up on a couple of chairs in the backyard), I could not get PBS to tune in at all. I couldn't even get it with the antenna in the attic, but just laying across the joists. I had just given up on PBS, but, once I got it suspended from the rafters (via a half inch galvinized pipe), PBS comes in just as strong as all the others, about 50%. A pleasant surprise.

Now, on HD content. I watched 'The Practice' last night which was supposed to be in HD, but I was underwhelmed. It was a good picture all right, but I wasn't in awe (Neither was my wife, which is the real problem :) )

I'm looking forward to Monday Night Football tonight. I really need to be impressed.

Regards. Jay.

Has Cox added the INHD and INHD2 channels? I see the press release saying they are one of the carriers, but not sure if we will get it here in Kansas.

Congrats Jay. Aiming the antenna may help, if I recall KWCH, and KPTS look to use the same tower judging by the antennaweb site. I turned my outdoor a bit and was able to bump the signal on 8 & 12 without affecting the others.

I too have seen some HD stuff that was underwhelming but then other shows look stunning. I wish KPTS would run the HDTV Demo loop that the national PBS shows I hear it looks stunning. I'm leaning towards the DishNetwork offerings, but am holding out until the 811 receiver and Superdish are available.

Did anyone else who watched the ABC MNF game last night experience audio drop outs (5.1) the first 45 minutes?

I heard from a friend who heard it from a salesman at Best Buy that they would be carrying the Motorola 5100, beginning, I believe he said, October 19. Don't quote me on this since it's 3rd hand information and neither my hearing nor my memory are very good. :)

David

Hey edison,

I did experience some audio dropouts, several times, but only for a split second. On the good side, this was my first 'real' HD experience. The picture was remarkable! I wish all shows that are reportedly in HD had this quality.

By the way, I watched Law and Order: SVU last night and it did look good once it swithed to HD. The first 10-15 minutes were 4:3 standard definition, then it abruptly switched to 16:9. What is the deal with that? Surely it's not simply a matter of board operator forgetting to push the 'HD Button' is it?

Regards. Jay.

Yeah they were quick just long enough for my 'blue light of luv' (Sony multichannel decoding light) to go out then come right back on. The picture never broke up once, just the audio.

Surely it's not simply a matter of board operator forgetting to push the 'HD Button' is it?

I don't know if it's just a switch or not, been a while since I've been in a master control booth. The thing I have noticed a couple times is after the last commercial break a 16:9 show will remain in 4:3 for the last 5-10 minutes and it has happened on a couple stations. It seems if it was a switch they wouldn't turn it off until the end of the episode.

NBC here in Topeka flips the switch to SD to show local commercials and usally forgets to flip it back. During ER one night, they remembered with two minutes left in the show. Other times, they forget to flip it back to SD after the show is over and you get the little peacock flying across the screen. Our CBS station must have an automatic switcher, because they very seldom miss it.

Dang, ya just can't get good switch flippers these days. :)

Originally posted by BJS188
NBC here in Topeka flips the switch to SD to show local commercials and usally forgets to flip it back. During ER one night, they remembered with two minutes left in the show. Other times, they forget to flip it back to SD after the show is over and you get the little peacock flying across the screen. Our CBS station must have an automatic switcher, because they very seldom miss it.

You are right, WIBW does switch automatically. Jeff there at WIBW does a great job.

What's the latest on Cox HDTV from those who are giving it a shot?
Do they have all of the local channels yet? How's the quality of the HD? I just got my TV and I have to make a decision on my HD receiver. Appreciate any info on Cox.

I did hear that CC and BB are not stocking the DCT5100 since the unit is soon to be obsolete. They want to stock the newer DCT6200 but Cox corporate has not approved the use of the box.

DCT6200 Link:
http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=358

The 6200 is definitely a more desireable product because of it's PVR capability.

David

I have had Cox HD since the week it came out and am generally pleased with it however:

1. ONLY KAKE (ABC) hd broadcast. Why this is I have no idea and cannot get a straight answer from Cocks after numerous attempts on when (or if) the other networks will be available. I do not think they are legally bound to carry the channels either as was brought up earlier here.

2. Only other channels are Discovery HD (Great but somewhat repetitive content). Showtime and HBO HD (Carnivale has great video and sound IMHO). ESPN sucks as far as HD content with only the NFL Sunday Night game every week.


Cocks needs to get the other networks soon or it might be better to go over the air (gasp!)

I'm pleased with my decision to go OTA. I may go with Cox someday if they put together a package that makes sense from a value standpoint, but, for now, for a $200-300 investment (SIR-T151 + antenna), I get 7 digital channels, including all the locals.

As far as picture quality goes, I'm very pleased. HD PQ seems to vary a lot depending on it's source, but it varies from 'pretty damn good' to 'absolutely stunning'.

As usual, the MNF game last night looked great!

Regards. Jay.

I am also sticking with OTA right now. Cox's package isn't worth the cost IMHO. I'm holding out for the 821/Superdish from E* and may go with that when available. I didn't watch much of the game after the first quarter switched over to the season premieres on CBS. I bought a HiPix card which I should have by the end of the week so I can record some HD on my PC.

Doug

All,
This info was sent to me from another forum. It describes a new upcoming HDTV service called "VOOM!".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300651

Regards,
Chance

Thanks for the link Chance. I had not heard about this. It's definitely worth investigating.

David

Originally posted by Jon@KSAS/KSCC
A few niblets of info from our station.


4 - We are the gathering site for DirecTV, they installed the necessary reception equipment (NTSC only) and their digital muxes 2 weeks ago. They are only waiting on the fiber to be installed that they will be outputting to, and whatever patching is necessary on their side. But they are close to completion. As far as pricing or any other info, refer to them, just thought I would pass on the fact that people are working on it. It's free OTA in Wichita, but this will help people in the more remote parts of KS who want to see local content.

As always, if anyone has any problems with our signals or questions about or stations feel free to post, or email me directly.

jon

Jon,
I am very interested about this. I assume they will be including all the stations in the Wichita/Hutch area. How will you pick the others up? I assume using an antenna? If so, who will be responsible for quality of reception?

thanks,
tim

Tim-

All of the stations except us (FOX and UPN) are received via OTA.
Our signals are pumped in directly from Master Control.

DirecTV had a swarm of engineers here with a tower crew installing the huge antennas (one for 3, one for 8,10, & 12, and one for 33). They are only passing the analog signals, they will have to change their equipment out when the analogs are shut off in 2020 ;)

They are basically a renter of space, they will montior their own signals, and even send in their own engineers. They might ask us to do something quick, but from what I understand we have nothing to do with the equipment, it might as well be in an unmanned shack.

They did an excellent job and are using gear with hot standbys for every piece of gear, so I think the only time they will have a problem is when a local transmitter goes off.

jon

Although this seems to be primarily an OTA thread - For what it's worth a Cox CSR told me just now that in Wichita they should be renting HD STBs in about a month (I was on the verge of giving up and buying one).

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

Do you have any info on when Fox will start providing programming in HD? Will they provide the baseball LCS and WS in HD? Will they provide any NFL in HD? Appreciate any info.

vblyth,
Fox has said they will do HD in most cases by next fall, meaning september of 04. I would assume if they are doing football in WS now, they will do it in HD.

As for baseball, unfortunately only the World Series will be in widescreen this season.

tim
not to answer for you jon, but if it saves you time

This is a direct quote :

"Today (6-25 press release) Fox announced that it would begin 720p HD network broadcasts for the fall 2004 season. These broadcasts will include at least 50% of prime time shows."

I have not received any more information, but it might be out there (but rumors are out there too). If they do more sports broadcasts, I assume it will be like it is now at first :
Game cams in 16x9, any pretape or replays in 4x3. The gear is very expensive, and will be a cumulative thing. As far as regular prime programming, you can probably guess the shows just like me (24 would be a good guess) but nothing has been announced.

The best thing HD viewers can do to get more programming on any channel is to encourage friends and family to buy HD or at least a DTV receiver. The more eyeballs, the more programming, it's just common sense. Only viewers can save this from becoming AM Stereo.

If I do see another press release come out with solid info that is meant for public knowledge, I will pass it along. All we are getting now is technical info about the sat transmission. Sports might not be announced until closer to the projected airtime because there are so many more logistical considerations with a live multicamera shoot, compared to a taped episode.

jon

Tim- I usually check the forum on weekdays, but if you have information you might have about our networks, feel free to share, I will never claim to be the authority on this stuff, I just wanted to be an outlet for info and problems pertaining to our stations. Everyone on the forum should recognize they are getting their info from a public forum and it may not be correct all of the time.

Jon/Tim,

Thanks for the info. Since this time of year I'm glued to the tube watching baseball, I was curious what Fox's plans were. While watching the Atl/Chi game today, I couldn't help switching to the Ala/Ga football game on CBS in HD because it looked so damn good! Was just thinking how good it would be to watch the Cubs lose in HD.

I own one and I don't know. Standard Terrestrial Box? If so why would a digital cable only box still be called a STB? Thanks I see it all the time and it is bugging me!

STB = Set Top Box