Not sure if this has been posted or not, but the Directv Web site now lists an early 2004 date for local channels in Wichita-Hutchinson.

chris:
I think because of they had to push back the launch of that new satellite, they had to push back the Wichita and Topeka locals, along a few others. But that will be nice for some when they do get them going.

Originally posted by chrisb25
Not sure if this has been posted or not, but the Directv Web site now lists an early 2004 date for local channels in Wichita-Hutchinson.

Just to confirm these are not HD channels correct? (I believe they are not)

I have been enjoying the OTA HD signals here in Wichita for a couple of weeks now and it looks great. However, I have noticed a bad trend. The stations are forgeting to switch the HD back on after showing some local content. I have called the local channels 4-5 times in the last few days about this, and each time after I hang up, the HD is switched back on.

So if you are watching HD and you are sure the program is in HD, but it's not turned on, give them a call and let them know we are watching!!!
(www.titantv.com will show what should be in HD)

Call the news room since someone will always answer your call.
KWCH-12: 838-1212 Ext 1
KAKE-10: 946-1331
KSN-3: 292-1111

mkultra, that is correct, the local channels via DirecTV will not be HD.

vbylth, that's good information, thank you for posting it. Obviously there IS a switch they have to flip. And if we don't call when they don't switch back to HD, it will simply "confirm" that nobody even noticed. That would be bad.

David

Well KAKE must have forgot to flip some switch because the ABC HD Demo was on tonight. Interesting stuff. Some of it was GREAT, other parts just average. The loop isn't that long.

That's the second Friday in a row that ABC played the HD Demo @ 9pm. The shuttle shots were really good.

Called KSN-3 again tonight about the lack of HD. I actually ended up talking to the guy that flips the switch. He confirmed the presence of a switch and flipped it while I was talking to him.

As Jim Rome says "keep banging the monkey" when you see these stations asleep at the wheel!!! Let them know we are out here expecting our HDTV.

Darn I missed it, whats normally on ABC on Fridays at 9pm? Does it show up in the listings or are they pre-empting something else?

On the last two Friday nights @ 9pm, ABC has ran a HD demo. The demo includes some scenery shots, a promo for GMA in HD, footage of a space shuttle launch, some funky test patterns, and a 5.1 channel sound check. The demo lasts 5-10 minutes and then it joins 20/20 in progress (which is not in HD).

Dang, UPN was supposed to start broadcasting Enterprise in HD tonight, but KSCC had it in SD. I don't know if they are not set up to pass the signal or if was just an oversight.

Over on the HDTV Programming forum, several people reported receiving the HD feed. Anyone have a contact number for someone over there?

XRay: I am sure Jon will respond soon and tell us the story.

tim

And what a story it is...

Just 2 weeks ago, our General Manager, our Programming Director, and even I called various people at UPN asking if they were planning to go HD anytime soon. The response was : no announcement has been made, and they wouldn't even speculate on what shows. We didn't even know if they had the satellite bandwidth available, or if the receivers we had could spit out HD.

So we left HD processing equipment for UPN out of our budget, and put in the necessary equipment to pass Fox in 720p for Fall of 04. Fox announced in June more than a year ahead of time of their intentions.

This Monday UPN announced to us that in TWO days they were going to broadcast Enterprise in HD. Hate to point the finger, but I'm sure there were a lot of other UPN affiliates who were caught by surprise also. Even if we had ordered the equipment a couple of weeks ago, it wouldn't have been delivered in time, let alone time for me to install it, in time for Wednesday.

So to be honest the equipment needed to pass an HD stream is very expensive, and our management will make the decision when to purchase it. Our KSCC-DT setup has a SD switch and a SD Encoder and no upconverter (for non-network material), which our corporation bought a year ago to save money because UPN had no plans of HD than either. The price gap between HD and SD used to be enormous, it is getting better though.
So when you're talking over $50k to pass a one hour a week show to a small amount of eyeballs, you can see why our management has second thoughts.

We want to pass HD as much as you guys want to see it.

If UPN announces they will provide more programs in HD, it might make it worth the investment, but please try to see our side of the story.

enough excuses? Just trying to give you the full story, however painful.

jon

Jon,
One question: Will your encoder allow you to pass the widescreen part of their shows using the 480i that way those who get your channel would at least get widescreen? Or do you have to have something else from UPN to receive their HD stuff?

Ouch, that IS painful.

However, the information is much appreciated.

I wish more businesses would understand that when a customer is fully informed with accurate information, that customer is more apt to be patient.

Thanks again Jon.

Tim -

We only have one 480i output, and it's 4x3, which we need for our analog.
Even if I had an extra receiver that I could set as 16x9 full time like we have on Fox, the encoder would have to switch between wide and 4x3 at commercials, and the encoder wasn't designed to do that in frames which we would need to keep from clipping things off.

So the only other output I could possibly get Widescreen from is the HD output of the receiver, but then I wouldn't be able to do anything with it because we need the other HD equipment to pass it on.

Sorry, but good try... I went through some brainstorms of my own also.

jon

Anyone else not getting KWCV? I'm showing no signal for WB 33 (digital 31) and haven't for the last couple days.

Same here. No signal for a couple of days.

Nope, nothing here either. They have only been broadcasting for 12 hours a day (through the evening), but it's 5:30pm with no signal. I'd say they're down right now.

Dave G.

Guys -

Marty (chief engineer at WB) called this morning, and wanted me to pass on that his digital will be down for a while. Some parts are on the way, but it might be some time before they get here. He has the transmitter manufacturer involved and is doing everything he can to get it back on.

He didn't want to leave you guys wondering.

You should all be watching the World Series on Fox anyways ;)

jon

Jon:
How does the world series look coming to you guys? I have heard that 480i widescreen can look pretty darn good.

World Series looks pretty good in widescreen and I believe the signal is 480p which is an improvement over the championship series. However, I still stare at it and imagine how much better it would be in HD. Hopefully next year...

vblyth:
Not to be picky, but I thought I heard they shot it 480i and then it was up to the stations to upconvert it to 480p, does that seem right? I would love to see the WS in WS but just a bit too far away.

tim

We receive it at 480p and pump it to 1080i here at the studios.
I'm not sure what it is shot in, might check some other video sights/magazines.

I think the World Series looks great, but I'm more of an audio guy, and I might be a little biased considering my employment...

jon

Jon,

I agree that the World Series looks great in the wide screen. But after watching Monday Night Football in HD, it is obvious that it could be even better. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just looking forward to the future.

And as an audio guy, is there any way to mute out McCarver from the broadcast? :)

Anyone know why there is a Boomerang in Spanish but not one in English on Digital Cable?? It is a ridiculous disparity that should be changed.

Okay. I have talked with Dale at KAKE on several occasions. I have done everything I can think of, and now I am down to advice from other users.

Don's TV sold me a lovely Channel Master "bowtie" antenna -- high gain, no/low reflection. Mainly because Dale @ KAKE said this was the only way to ensure that I wasn't experiencing the digital equivalent of multipath (ghosting).

Thanks to the new antenna, I get 100% signal on 19 (CBS), 29 (PBS), 45 (NBC) -- basically everyone *BUT* 21 (KAKE-ABC-transmitting from a CB radio).

I can get as high as 65%, but then it (sadly) drops back off. To anywhere from 0 to 15.

Here is what I am guessing. Low power transmission + weird bay configuration on broadcast source's antenna + too close to Colwich (kinda like KAKE's own studios) = not seeing Monday Night Football in 720p.

Three receivers now from Hughes. It ain't the reciever. It ain't the antenna up at the house. It ain't the 30 foot piece of RG6 going directly from the Channel Master to the OTA in on the DTV receiver.

Any ideas? Anyone? I am such a spoiled child, I can't watch SDTV anymore. Heck, I have a hard time watching some of the programming coming off DirecTV that is upconverted.

Thank God the Chiefs games are mostly on CBS this year. Except for last Sunday's (ESPN-HD BABY!).

Enough ranting. Seriously.... I need help.

Shawn

Shawn,

OK, I'll bite, what's wrong with Colwich?

Are there "nulls" where signals are weak, like bass from a subwoofer? I don't know, but if you can pick up every other station at 100%, I don't see too many explanations.

The Channel Master bowties are excellent antennas.

I'm with you - I think EVERYTHING ought to be in HD. Watching regular ol' 4:3 NTSC is like listening to AM radio, or 8-Track tape, or B&W when color TV's came out. If it's not in HD, and I "have" to watch it, I watch it on the little 26" TV. The last two Chiefs games have been in HD, which has been WONDERFUL, and now going back to 4:3 NTSC is going to be...painful.

David

Originally posted by shawncochran

Here is what I am guessing. Low power transmission + weird bay configuration on broadcast source's antenna + too close to Colwich (kinda like KAKE's own studios) = not seeing Monday Night Football in 720p.


Shawn

I don't think KAKE has particularly low power transmission when compared to some of the other channels. I get plenty of signal on the east side of town with a set top antenna. If you're very close to KAKE's tower, then you could actually be getting too much signal. Even though you're using a good antenna, it's still possible to experience multipath, particularly when you're very close (reflections are very strong also).

The only possibilities I can think of are,

1. Try moving the antenna. Different location and/or rotating it. Where are you in relation to the towers? The antenna you have is somewhat directional (which is why it reduces multipath).

2. If you're getting a very strong signal, you might actually try an attenuator to cut it down a little. I've heard of this working. Radio Shack sells them for cheap.

Dave G.

Agree with Dave, try moving the antenna or using an attenuator.

Shawn,
I have the Hughes E86 and KAKE 10-1 is a solid 73 here in McPherson 40+ miles away. I agree, try moving the antenna while someone is watching the signal meter.
Regards,
Chance

Okay. Good ideas all!

Yeah -- I think I am too freaking close -- but wouldn't that affect *all* the stations broadcasting at Colwich? I mean, broadcast patterns are unique because the bays on the antennae make different patterns (because the FCC wants it that way, dangit!). Does anyone think it is *possible* that because of my geographic location that it is possible for me to actually be "under" the signal, rather than having too much?

On a side note -- from my analog days, I happen to have a rotator. Still up & in use. When I point the Channel Master WSW, I get signal at about 40-55% -- I contribute this to a bounce from somewhere else.

I mean, I have a 15 foot mast on a rotator on the peak of my house. I get everyone else famously. I just don't get KAKE worth a crap. Even if I rotate to catch signal from the side, 40-55% isn't enough to keep a steady picture, because it keeps bouncing.

Let's look at the other interesting theory here: too much signal. If I were to go to my local Radio Shark and purchase an attenuator, what does that device do for me? Will it decrease the signal strength on my other channels?

Maybe, because of my proximity, I have too MUCH antenna. Maybe I need the cheapest POS on the planet, because I am something like 8 miles from the broadcast source.

I'm enjoying this ... thanks for everyone jumping right in. I'm stoked. Give me HDef of give me death.

Shawn

The attenuator will of course reduce the signal you get from all the stations, but if you have 100% on all the others, then it won't hurt to loose a little. It's a bit of a long shot, but worth a try. RS has a variable attenuator that's pretty cheap as I recall.

OTA reception is somewhat black magic. Just try stuff until you hit something that works. Probably if we could visually see the signals, it would be more obvious, but we can't.

You hit on another possibility. If your TV is above ground, you might try a simple set top antenna. The Zenith Silver Sensor is very good and Circuit City carries them. A friend of mine has one that he reliably receives all the digital stations with AND his TV is in the basement!!! He does live on the west side of town, but still!! Might be worth a shot. One advantage of the set top antenna is you can move it all over the place looking for a spot that works for all stations.

Dave G.

That Zenith may get some play this weekend. I am, in fact, a westy. Really, I'm not too far from the KAKE studios. I have applied Pythagorian theorum on this -- and as best as I can tell -- I don't get channel 10 worth a darn.

So --> here's where I hedge my bets. I can't watch SDTV anymore, because I am a big baby. I've bought the biggest and baddest to this point, and I am still trapped in a quagmire.

I'm going to get the cheapest POS inside antenna I can find. Perhaps our friend Mr. Zenith. I will promptly report the results.

I gotta tell you though -- I am already pretty much the ridicule of the neighborhood. This will only add insult to injury. 65" Widescreen HDTV Hitachi Ultravision with the best in front-end gear that I can afford. Reception provided by $1.29 rabbit ears. No wonder my wife thinks I'm an idiot.

On the outside chance that this doesn't work, I'm gonna throw down the gauntlet & challenge someone on this thread to fix my problem. The reward will be something that any true sports fan would kill for. I want this working and out of my life.

Details soon.....

Shawn

Well, I have a RS Double Bowtie that I picked up for $5 on clearance sitting on top of my $700 Samsung TS-160 receiver which is sitting beside my 51" SWX20B Hitachi.

Dave G.

I appreciate it. You know Dave, guys like us are hard to find sometimes. I like my technology to be good. Using a $5 antenna just feels weird. I guess maybe I should feel weird that 90% of the HD content I watch is free!
Then again, maybe I am cheap. I think I need to summon my inner strength and go get the darn Zenith... maybe I'll hunt on eBay first.
I just want this to work.

shawn,
if you want, I have a sliver sensor I can send ya. I cannot, where I live, receive *ANY* digital channel. It does me no good, so it might as well do someone some good.

Originally posted by shawncochran
Let's look at the other interesting theory here: too much signal. If I were to go to my local Radio Shark and purchase an attenuator, what does that device do for me? Will it decrease the signal strength on my other channels?I don't remember precisely, and I'm too lazy to go look, but I posted my experience with attenuators and a $2.99 Radio Shack bowtie way early in this thread. As I remember, I used every attenuator and splittor (-3dB each split) I have, totalling probably -18dB, and dropped the signal on the strong channels only into the 80's. I really don't recall the details though. It's worth a try, but I don't think a digital signal can overload a receiver like an analog signal can. I could be wrong.

There is no way you are "antenna poor". A Channel Master bowtie sticking 15' above your house is pretty much all you, or anyone else, can do. I have the "small" CM bowtie in my attic, which is a rather inhospitable place for an antenna, but I pick up all the stations with NO problem. I am NW Wichita, approx 29th and Ridge. I was able to pick up most, but not all, of the stations with the aformentioned RS bowtie.

The engineer at KAKE has not been able to help you? I remember going around and around with Marty at WB about an audio problem I was experiencing. He kept swearing there was no problem, that it was all in my head, until he went to Heffner (sp) and borrowed a digital receiver, and then he too saw (heard) the problem. Those guys use these $10K broadcast quality receivers and they receive their signal perfectly, and conclude everything is hunky dory. Invite the engineer to your house, along with his oscilloscope or whatever it is they use to test digital signal strength.

David

Originally posted by haysdb
...The engineer at KAKE has not been able to help you? I remember going around and around with Marty at WB about an audio problem I was experiencing. He kept swearing there was no problem, that it was all in my head, until he went to Heffner (sp) and borrowed a digital receiver, and then he too saw (heard) the problem...

I have called on a couple of occasions, and he is leading me to believe that the problem must be mine. Bascially, I am not sold on that theory.

Yuu're right -- I am antenna rich. That Channel Master is *very* directional and there is not much chance of signal getting in the backside. I am SE of you (directly SE) ... so theoretically, I am am having the problem, you should be too --- with the exception of potential differences in receivers.

I loaned my Samsung SIR-T150 to a friend of mine in Mulvane. He says he is famous across the board. I am on a Hughes HIRD-E8 & when I am pointing directly at Colwich I get 100% on every channel EXCEPT KAKE. (easy to tell -- visually outside and inside, just switch to analog and wait for KAKE's ghosts to disappear!)

I did, in fact, invite Dale to help out. I got the "we have so many projects going on right now, I just don't have time" ... too bad. Maybe that means he will be willing to sign a waiver so I can get ABC off the satellite. I still won't get ABC in HDef though.

Timmy -- thanks for the offer. I read your thread after I won an eBay auction. $40 at BestBuy? No way. How about $18.00 new through eBay.

So .. back to the issue. Is there anyone else on a Hughes that is SE of the Colwich farm with a similar issue?

Next week -- attenuator land & the Zenith comes in.

Shawn

Shawn,

I have a Hughes E86. I just checked, I'm 86 to 93% on KAKE, but fluctuating from 79 to 100. MyHD (PC card), which is using the same antenna, shows 44%. Nothing definitive, except that it's not the Hughes receiver, and it's not your antenna (since I have a similar one).

David

For some reason I have lost KWCH, and KPTS tonight. I haven't changed anything in quite a while so I don't know what caused it. I'm still getting KAKE, KSN, UPN, and FOX. Went up on the roof and checked the antenna and it appears fine. Called KWCH and he said the signal was fine.

I heard some good "rumours" today about Cox: Remember how Cox said they would not be leasing the Motorola High Def STBs? They are now leasing the STBs for $10 per month. Plus $50 installation. Self-install is not an option.

When Cox first started offering HD, the few local retailers carrying the Motorola STB were cought unprepared and their stock was depleted almost immediately. One of those retailers placed a large order for the STBs, and now that Cox has reversed themselves and are leasing the boxes, said retailer is left holding a huge inventory of boxes.

I reported some time ago that Best Buy would soon being offering the Motorola STB? I'm told they are holding off due to a large number of reported problems. I'm not sure whether this is based on their internal testing or what.David

More COX info...

INHD and INHD2 are coming soon in November.

Originally posted by klemsaba
More COX info...

INHD and INHD2 are coming soon in November. INHD? I see that there is a web site, www.inhd.com (http://www.inhd.com), but I still don't know what it is. Movies, Sports, Travel and Nature. It's new, just launched Sept 15, 2003. Who is behind it? It costs a lot of money to launch a couple of HD channels. Ooh ooh ooh, college hockey. And a football game between Furman and Ga. Southern. Wow, cool.

It's HD though, and I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth. HDNet certainly started out with nothing more amazing. Arena football?

David

Well KWCH came back last night in time for Letterman, so I don't know what the problem was.

On the topic at hand what is the cheapest package price to get COX HD, and for those of you who have it how the PQ?

edit: Well I called COX they are already out of lease boxes (due to overwhelming demand) since I already have basic/internet it would cost me $18.95 more a month (9.00 (digital), 9.95 (HD/box rental)). I would gain some regular channels, but really only ESPN & Discovery HD in the HD tier (since I don't subscribe to HBO/Showtime). She didn't know if INHD would be free with the HD tier or an added cost.

Doug

Originally posted by edison
[B]For some reason I have lost KWCH, and KPTS tonight. /B]

I had some intermittent issues around 7pm with CBS. They came back just fine.

I have, however, had a few days this past cople of weeks where PBS would just go off the air. No signal at all.

I'm still not getting love from ABC, but my antenna hasn't arrived yet either....

Are you still experiencing CBS and PBS issues?

On the topic at hand what is the cheapest package price to get COX HD, and for those of you who have it how the PQ?
Doug

Not to be a thorn in anyone's side -- but has KAKE changed the terms of it's contract with Cox?

Last time I checked, there wasn't going to be HD delivery of any of the local channels on Cox, except KAKE. Cox is going to carry the DIGITAL broadcast, but not the HD broadcast(s).

Again, I could be speaking out of turn, but this was purportedly because when KAKE and Cox signed the contract to carry ABC's/KAKE's HD programming, there was some language hidden in the contract giving KAKE "exclusivtity of HD broadcasting" -- eliminating the ability for Cox to carry the HD from other local stations.

Has something changed that I don't know about?

"Last time I checked, there wasn't going to be HD delivery of any of the local channels on Cox, except KAKE. Cox is going to carry the DIGITAL broadcast, but not the HD broadcast(s).

Again, I could be speaking out of turn, but this was purportedly because when KAKE and Cox signed the contract to carry ABC's/KAKE's HD programming, there was some language hidden in the contract giving KAKE "exclusivtity of HD broadcasting" -- eliminating the ability for Cox to carry the HD from other local stations.

Has something changed that I don't know about?"

I'm pretty sure this is NOT true. I'm not sure where you got that info but you should temper statements like with a clause that that it is only what you believe or at least state who/where your source is. People read these forums and take everything for gospel and I read so many daily un truths that I feel sorry for the average man that reads this stuff and thinks it is the "truth".

I think what was reported earlier was that Cox had signed an agreement with KAKE to carry an ancillary channel (Channel 51?) and for that Cox received and was able to rebroadcast KAKE's HD channel - at no charge. I also "heard" from an unnamed source (so I can't say it is absolutely true) that the rest of the locals (primarily Channel 3 and 12) are wanting compensation from Cox for their respective HD channels. Cox doesn't want to pay for them and they don't want to give them up for free. So far it's a standoff. This all may not be true but I just can't believe that Cox would ever sign an agreement to only carry KAKE's HD channels. With the obvious future being totally HD that's just silly and that's just silly to post that!

I think I effectively used the correct language. For instance: "purportedly" and "speaking out of turn". I don't believe I used the word "gospel" or the language "written in stone".

I had heard, through the grapevine, that this was the principal issue. While contracts can be extremely verbose, it is possible that some kind of "boilerplate" was used to create the agreement, and some language may have been included (intentionally or otherwise). Simply put, this is what I understood. There may, in fact, be this language. Then again, there may not. There is also the possibility that what you mentioned has merit -- the other broadcasters may be holding out for compensation -- WHICH THEY ARE ENTITLED TO BY LAW. It is possible that the language in the contract between Cox and KAKE strongly favors KAKE's position. If KAKE were my company, I can assure you that I would do everything in my power to give myself the edge over my competition.

Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that subscribers to Cox Cable usually get the minimal amount of service that can be delivered cost effectively. It comes back to driving revenue for the stockholders. Don't expect KAKE or Cox (or anyone in business, for that matter) to give you something for free... even "free" broadcast TV has commercials.

Thanks for completely jumping off the handle, and assuming that everyone else that *might* read this thread is some kind of idiot. If you have something evidentiary that nullifies the issue that I have posed, then post it. Don't criticize it.

Originally posted by shawncochran
Are you still experiencing CBS and PBS issues?

Nope, like I said KWCH came back last night around the time Letterman came on. Tonight they're both on KWCH & KPTS, and I just noticed even 33 WB is back on.

Doug

Originally posted by edison
Nope, like I said KWCH came back last night around the time Letterman came on. Tonight they're both on KWCH & KPTS, and I just noticed even 33 WB is back on.

Doug

THANKS!!!!!! I am gonna go turn it back on in my receiver now! I appreciate the update.

Regarding KAKE's contract with Cox. Even if there WERE such languange in the contract, I suspect it would not be binding, or at least not enforceable. It would be contrary to what the FCC is trying to accomplish, contrary to what's in the best interest of consumers. I'm not a lawyer, but it fails a basic sanity test and therefore I believe it not to be true.

That's my opinion. I could be wrong. ;)

David

Cable comanies all over the country are facing the same issue with local stations. Local stations want cable companies to carry all their digital channels, not just their primary HD channel. This is a big snag. I'm sure KWCH wasn't very happy when COX dumped their channel 52 last spring and I bet that has something to do with the delay for that channel. It wouldn't shock me if locals started multi-casting on their digital spectrum in the future and they want all their programming on cable.

I think COX is ready to go and waiting on final agreements. My TiVO still reports all the new local HD lineups!

I'm not going to say much about this Cox situation, except that you guys have a lot of bad info. I'll encourage the people in the know at Cox to at least read this forum and consider posting some facts.

I do agree that they need to make their plans more public, they might not realize the amount of interest that is out there. The person we are in contact with doesn't feel this information is top secret, so maybe they will start sharing it.

jon

I know in the Topeka market, WIBW is the only HD channel on. It is the CBS affiliate, which happens to be owned by the same group that owns KAKE in Wichita.

I have asked the PBS guys in topeka if they will be included and he said yes, they are just trying to work out details in the contract. I think alot of times, lawyers get involved and one word in a contract can hang things up. I would imagine something similar is happening.

OR, Cox doesn't have all the bandwidth everyone thinks they do, which I believe to be true somewhat. I was told by a headend tech that they were almost full on their 750 mhz system. That's what get me, all these people talk like cable has unlimited bandwidth, when they are in a crunch just like satellite, just not as bad.

Edison - I have heard (through Heffner TV here in Wichita) that if you have Cox internet, that the digital gateway is already turned on, therefore all you really need to do is rent the box, and it will receive the HD content (locals). Not sure if this is really true...has anyone else heard this?

Originally posted by Jon@KSAS/KSCC
I'm not going to say much about this Cox situation, except that you guys have a lot of bad info. I'll encourage the people in the know at Cox to at least read this forum and consider posting some facts.

I do agree that they need to make their plans more public, they might not realize the amount of interest that is out there. The person we are in contact with doesn't feel this information is top secret, so maybe they will start sharing it.

jon Jon, it would be super fantastic if someone from Cox, who knows what the heck is going on, would post the publicly available facts. Cox is a Big Black Hole of information, or should I say misinformation, or even disinformation. One example, I called once, way back when, and asked a rep when they would begin offering HD, and was told they already were! That, of course, was total BS, because what they were offering was "digital cable", which of course has as much to do with HD as nothing.

So, when all we get out of Cox is this continuous line of BS, we are left to try to piece together something from rumours, from things said by so-and-so who heard it from someone whose room-mate is a tech for Cox. I'd much rather hear it from the horses mouth. But I swear, if it's just more BS, they better put their flame suit on. :D

David

David,
Don't worry, nobody from Cox will dare come on this thread.

tim

Originally posted by timmy1376
David,
Don't worry, nobody from Cox will dare come on this thread.

tim I agree. It would be out of character for them to to be forthcoming. OTOH, they do have a new Pres or CEO don't they? It takes awhile to change a culture. I'm not holding my breath, but it could happen. My own personal cynical opinion, based purely on my own experience, is that (1) NOBODY at Cox knows what's going on, and if there IS anyone who knows what's going on (2) they aren't about to share that information with anyone, and sure as hell not a rumour mongering Internet forum like this one. :D

David

This is interesting:

http://www.cox.com/Kansas/CableTV/CityInfo.asp?City=Wichita&view=lineup

Note the HDTV portion. I don't know what to make of it.

Originally posted by timmy1376

OR, Cox doesn't have all the bandwidth everyone thinks they do, which I believe to be true somewhat. I was told by a headend tech that they were almost full on their 750 mhz system. That's what get me, all these people talk like cable has unlimited bandwidth, when they are in a crunch just like satellite, just not as bad.

Cocks has more than enough bandwidth they are just *******s. They certainly have enough to broadcast all the locals in HD. But after all that's why they're Cocks ;)

ps

No Answer as to why there is Boomerang in Spanish only?

pps

Since when is b a s t a r d a "bad word"? It is the title of a book!!!

I see that the digital signal from WB is back up here in Wichita. However, they are not broadcasting in HD. Anybody know why? Are they set up for digital but not for HD? Just wondering.

For the record, I didn't mean to open Pandora's box.

I agree with what everyone is posting here. The fact is: Cox doesn't tell anyone anything, so it is left up to your imagination.

I suppose they are trying to keep their competition from beating them to the punch. Really though, their only competition is DBS providers -- who have different advantages/disadvantages.

I just want subscribers to Cox to get for free what everyone else gets if they have an antenna.

Oh, and I want to get KAKE at the house ... still working that issue

This may be slightly off topic, since it has nothing to do with HD but...

I have a tentative appointment with Primetime Communications to have my Dish 500 swapped out for a Super Dish so I can start receiving local channels. I'm told that "we're hoping for the week of the 24th."

I'm looking forward to it. This way, I can watch my programs via OTA HD when I'm here, or PVR the SD version off of DISH when I'm not.

Regards. Jay.

Originally posted by KS-Jayhawk
Edison - I have heard (through Heffner TV here in Wichita) that if you have Cox internet, that the digital gateway is already turned on, therefore all you really need to do is rent the box, and it will receive the HD content (locals). Not sure if this is really true...has anyone else heard this?

If you rent the box, from what I have heard, it include the cost of the channels. So yeah that would work. But what about if you have a card in your computer that will decode QAM?? I know the AccessDTV card will allow you to view QAM and they are about $250 so it might be worth a try. Even if it doesn't work, the card will still allow you to view and record OTA channels.

So has anybody heard any new news of when cocks is going to start carrying more local HD channels?

I thought they were carrying all the locals...I've called three times in the last two weeks and every time they said they were carrying all locals. I've put myself on the waiting list to rent an HD box based on that info. If this is not true, someone let me know.

The only channel in Wichita they carry is KAKE. period. They only carry one in Topeka also, WIBW, who is owned by the same company that KAKE is.

The frequency with which they give out incorrect information is amazing. One wonders whether they are really that ignorant, or if they do it with full knowledge of the truth.

Coach to player: "Son, you are either ignorant or apathetic"
Player: "Coach, I don't know what that means, and I don't care."

As of some time in the past few days (I don't check from day to day) the Cox digital HD feed now includes INHD and INHD2. So currently, KAKE, ESPNHD, Discovery HD (free for the 1st 6 mos.) and the two INHDs are the basic HD service. This means you get the ESPN Sunday night NFL game and Monday Night Football in HD.

INHD programming looks pretty similar to Discovery - lots of nature/travel programs shown repeatedly - but they do have some movies (I couldn't resist watching the original "Oceans 11" in Hi-Def last night).

Now if they could just sign up the NBC and CBS feeds . . .

Anyone following the public pissing match between Cox and ESPN? I got an email from the President of Cox, as I asume did every other subscriber for whom they have an email address, asking me to support Cox in their fight against ESPN. Not just taking the man's word on the subject, I bopped over to ESPN and read their take on things. I'm still too ill informed to have an informed opinion on the matter, but I will say ESPN thus far has made the more convincing argument in my mind.

Since this effects all Cox subscribers and not just Wichita, discussion of this thread belongs elsewhere, but I just thought I'd bring it up here so that the "local's" are aware of what's going on.

David

If you all go to http://www.cox.com/Kansas/

you will see a link for HDTV service for FREE from Cox. I might do it for 6 months or so on my standard TV to to see it.

Originally posted by haysdb
Anyone following the public pissing match between Cox and ESPN? I got an email from the President of Cox, as I asume did every other subscriber for whom they have an email address, asking me to support Cox in their fight against ESPN. Not just taking the man's word on the subject, I bopped over to ESPN and read their take on things. I'm still too ill informed to have an informed opinion on the matter, but I will say ESPN thus far has made the more convincing argument in my mind.


Well, I hope COX moves ESPN up to a higher teir. I don't want to pay for something I don't watch! The only reason why this is a COX issue is their contract is up. Be sure that Comcast, and all the other cable outlets will go through the same problem when their contract are up.

People complain about Cable rate increases and now COX is trying to do something about it.

If you all go to http://www.cox.com/Kansas/ ......HDTV service for free from Cox...You know, if this deal would have been offered during the initial rollout, I'm certain I would have gone for it.

As it was, they tried to force me to buy an overpriced, obsolete receiver in order to rceive their limited content. That only served as motivation to look into other alternatives.

I ended up switching to Satellite, while getting my HD content OTA, and I haven't looked back since.

Regards. Jay.

Jon@KSAS,

I just finished watching 24 tonight off the digital feed and was disappointed that the widescreen "high resolution" signal was not being broadcast. Just a 4:3 image with grey bars. Was there a problem with the digital feed? Or did someone forget to flip the switch for the network feed? (known problem for the other local channels). Couldn't find a phone# to inquire about technical issues for KSAS in the phonebook. Just wondering.
Thanks.

Vern-

Believe it or not, our "switch" needed a reboot. It is an auto-switching circuit that has worked flawlessly until last night. The switch can be overridden by the operator in case of a sat receiver failure or other problem, but I or another engineer is usually involved at that point. It has been in auto ever since Fox solved our MLB and NFL Europe problem.

As far as getting a hold of us after hours, since we don't have a news dept, we don't have a staff member manning a public phone line. Our operators are watching all of the transmitters from across the state, and should have noticed this problem, but for some reason or another didn't. I'll talk to that operator when he comes in tonight.

Sorry for the problem, I'll make sure everybody keeps a closer eye on the digital feed.

jon

Thanks Jon. I appreciate you keeping us updated.

David

Anyone catch the radio ads for free Cocks HD? They state they have all the local broadcast networks (they might cut off the 's' to make it networK) .

Faulty advertising anyone?

There is also an identical ad on tv but they flash the available channels at the end for 1/10 of a second.

This is getting even more ridiculous! Will it get worse?


There is no way in HELL that Cocks will drop ESPN from basic and move it to a digital tier. They are bluffing (not very well). If they did so one would be well advised to drop cable and switch to satellite since there is only KAKE on HD over cable (WHY?????).

And lastly Cocks: FLIP THE SWITCH ON ENGLISH BOOMERANG!!!!!!!

Cox does have all the local networks...just not in HD. Cox has all the local networks in digital...just not in HD. And Bill Clinton did not have sex with Monica Lewinski.

I agree, Cox is bluffing visa vis ESPN. ESPN has Cox by the short hairs and they well know it. ESPN largely drives cable subsciptions. Any anyone who doesn't believe sports will drive HD hasn't been to Best Buy recently. It ain't the Discovery Channel. Because we now have ESPN in HD, this will truly be the year of High Definition.

David

Thanks for the quick response Jon. It's amazing how quickly I have become spoiled by high definition and high resolution wide screen programs such as 24 and especially football. Thanks again for the info.

Originally posted by haysdb
Cox does have all the local networks...just not in HD. Cox has all the local networks in digital...just not in HD. And Bill Clinton did not have sex with Monica Lewinski.


David

They do not make any distinction in the ad it is clearly a HD advertisement ( the point being free hd channels including broadcast networks). It is not correct or moral to run it regardless.

I disagree that the local networks are on digital cable. Channels 2-73 are just regular cable channels. The quality of these channels is no different from regular cable and is atrocious!

Even the digital channels (non-hd) have frequent artifacting that I find unacceptable.

On the Dish Network local channels - are they in HD?

No. They will be in SD.

Actually, they don't even exist yet. Apparently, they are turned on, but the equipment (Superdish) isn't available in this area yet. Primetime Communications has me on the list and I should be installed as soon as they get the equipment.

Updates on Cox Cable:

Just got the in-laws hooked up on Cox cable based on their information that they were carrying all locals. The only local channel they can get is KAKE. I talked to a friend of mine who also got hooked up this week and he is only getting KAKE. We were both told by Cox that all locals were running. We also both have print information from Cox that displays the NBC, CBS, and ABC logos under the HD tier heading.

For my amusement I called Cox this morning and asked them what channels they carried. They replied "all locals". I then said that includes ABC, NBC, and CBS. They said yes. I asked to speak to a supervisor immediately because that information was wrong. I got hooked up last night and all I can get is KAKE and I was pissed because I made a buying decision based on bad information.

The supervisor said that the fine print in the marketing material says "channels only where available". I said that was bogus, but that doesn't change the fact that I was told multiple times over the phone, including just five minutes ago. She then said that the problem would be corrected.

Overall, she said it would be next year before any more channels are added. They waived the installation charge after I mentioned having a more in-depth conversation about their fraudalent advertising.

Thank goodness I have satellite and can get the channels OTA. As soon as DirecTV gets locals this spring goodbye Cox!

But Chris, DirecTV locals will not be in HD. You will need an antenna to receive the locals in HD, which you can do right now. If an antenna is not an option, then you have little choice but to wait patiently for Cox to add them to the lineup. As much as I love Cox, you aren't missing a heck of a lot just yet, and "next year" is only 4 weeks away.

David

I have locals in HD with my antenna...I still have cable for my other non HD TVs, which I will drop as soon as DirecTv offers them.

Can you just split the antenna off to the get the analog channels to the non-HD tv's so you can drop cable now??

I tested that, but the reception I get with analog is not good enough...I can wait a few months to drop Cox...I'll just enjoy it when I do!

I very much enjoyed calling and cancelling them when I got my D* HD receiver. I don't think anyone will offer better PQ for the locals than what we can get OTA. Well, that's assuming they don't start doing a bunch of sub channels...

Dave G.

I was at my parents in Coffeyville for Thanksgiving and I hooked up my MyHD card to their antenna and picked up NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, UPN, 2 PBS channels, and an religious channel. The CBS and ABC stations had two subchannels, one the HD feed and the other the SD feed stretched. They both looked great to my eye, even the SD stretched one, but the HD one did get a bit pixilized in fast moving scenes, but nothing that would bother me. One of the PBS stations had 5, yes 5, subchannels during the day. They went down to 2 at night, one the regular PBS stations, the other the HD demo loop.

Tim-

Out of curiousity, what affiliates did you pick up? If you were picking up Wichita/Hutchinson signals, your reception is outstanding.

I'm guessing most of the signals were out of OK or Missouri?

It's always nice to know how far our signal reaches...

jon

Yeah, sorry Jon, I should have said they were all out of Tulsa or the surrounding areas. I do occasionally pickup your signal up here in Manhattan, but only because of tropo ducting.

Tim-

Thanks for the clarification, I was being a little too optimistic! The digital signals seem to travel farther than the analogs in some situations.

jon

Off topic but cool anyway. Channel 52 is now MTV2 and 61 is now Bravo! I can finally watch celebrity poker! :)

This isn't DTV/HDTV related, but...

On my ReplayTV, the local channels are now in the 1xxx range, so channel 3 is 1003. The quality is crappy too. I'm trying to determine what's going on, and whether these are the local cable feeds or something that is coming from DirecTV.

David

Originally posted by Hippster
Off topic but cool anyway. Channel 52 is now MTV2 and 61 is now Bravo! I can finally watch celebrity poker! :)

Are those analog channels???

I recieved an email today from an executive at one of the 2 networks that is not carried by cox and they said that talks have broken down because cox will not broadcast their signal unaltered.

Does anybody have any insight on that?

Originally posted by dresf
I recieved an email today from an executive at one of the 2 networks that is not carried by cox and they said that talks have broken down because cox will not broadcast their signal unaltered.

Does anybody have any insight on that?

Eric,

What doesn't make sense is, why is the CBS affiliate in Topeka on HD Cox, if this is true. Either the Topeka CBS affiliate doesn't care if Cox down rezzes or Cox Topeka isn't down rezzing (doubtful). OR...this is an issue with NBC (you said ONE of the two networks).


I assume that when they say "unaltered", they mean they don't want the image "down rezzed". But that is unrealsitic becasue AFAIK, most HD Cable companies are down rezzing the HD brodcasts somewhat. Even DirecTV and Dish do it. AFAIK the only way to get full res HDTV is with an ATSC tuner and an antenna - at least in most markets.

Hard to say.

Originally posted by F P Crazy
Eric,

What doesn't make sense is, why is the CBS affiliate in Topeka on HD Cox, if this is true. Either the Topeka CBS affiliate doesn't care if Cox down rezzes or Cox Topeka isn't down rezzing (doubtful). OR...this is an issue with NBC (you said ONE of the two networks).


I assume that when they say "unaltered", they mean they don't want the image "down rezzed". But that is unrealsitic becasue AFAIK, most HD Cable companies are down rezzing the HD brodcasts somewhat. Even DirecTV and Dish do it. AFAIK the only way to get full res HDTV is with an ATSC tuner and an antenna - at least in most markets.

Hard to say.

I dont agree. I believe that most cable companies do not down rez the picture. I honestly think it's about $$$$$ and the fact that Cox has their head up their behinds on the whole HD deal.

And I keep saying this, KAKE and WIBW (in Topeka) are the only locals being carried in Kansas AND THEY ARE OWNED BY THE SAME COMPANY.

Originally posted by timmy1376
I dont agree. I believe that most cable companies do not down rez the picture. I honestly think it's about $$$$$ and the fact that Cox has their head up their behinds on the whole HD deal.

And I keep saying this, KAKE and WIBW (in Topeka) are the only locals being carried in Kansas AND THEY ARE OWNED BY THE SAME COMPANY.

While I can't speak for the local issues, nationwide there is a disagreement between local broadcasters and cable companies. The main sticking issue is local broadcasters want cable companies to carry ALL of their channels. As we see with PBS, stations can offer more than one digital channel. They can offer as many as their bandwidth can handle. While I don't know the specifics, I believe a station could offer 3 or 4 non-hd channels if they wanted. Cable companies (in general) would rather only carry the primary channel that a local broadcaster offers.

So where does that leave us? I agree with cable's position because I don't want to encourage broadcasters to offer digital television at anything less than 1080i or 720p resolution (not counting SD reality programming, etc). Perhaps this isn't a problem, but imagine if KSN, PBS, KAKE, KWCH, KSAS, WB33, UPN and anyone Else offered 2, 3 or 4 digital channels you can see how this would take up valuable space on the cable spectrum. We can go back and forth about whether cable does or doesn't have the bandwidth, but I bet adding 14 to 21 channels to the lineup could be problematic especially when what we all want is more HD channels, not more SD channels. I want HD Cinemax and HD STARZ, not PBS's secondary digital channel.

Now, I don't know if that's the issue with KSN, KWCH, PBS, KSAS, WB33 and others, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is an issue with a couple of these broadcasters. Sure there are plenty of markets that offer all the locals, but not every station is greedy (or every cable company is stingy), but that doesn't mean that this isn't a real issue. Remember, KWCH did have channel 52 and while they didn't use it all the time, there were some alternate programming on that channel. Same with KAKE and channel 51. KAKE now has channel 22 for their news, weather, radar and local information. KWCH has been left out in the cold (and it is a cold one TODAY).

So, if you really want local HD, just buy an OTA receiver and enjoy your HD programming.

Originally posted by klemsaba

So, if you really want local HD, just buy an OTA receiver and enjoy your HD programming.

That is not an option for some of us. I have tried several antennas with ZERO luck.

To add to the above, I am not sure if most of you all know I live in Manhattan, but we only have PBS, CBS, and NBC in HD with ABC in SD. The NBC is broadcasting at a whopping 4kW and ABC at 25kW (neither with immediate plans to boost power). CBS rings in at 94kW with PBS in the 800's somewhere. No FOX, WB, or UPN. Heck, there not even an UPN or WB analog affiliate.

My point being that unless you live in a larger city, and you have good broadcasters that will actually put out a signal that covers more than their city of license, you might have trouble with OTA. If you were to look towards the PBS, FOX, and NBC towers from my house, you will see a hill that totally blocks me from even receiving the analog channel. ABC and CBS are better, but I cannot get them without major ghosting.

For me, it's cable for locals in HD or nothing.

I am getting close to being frustrated enough to buy an OTA receiver, but I already have a $500 investment in the cox hd box, and adding another box at close to the same price to get 3 more channels is overkill...right now. When I signed up for the Cox HD pkg. their info to me and others was that the other locals were just a matter of days or weeks, back in October. In addition, to add another box would mean reprogramming my pronto pro, and the box would have to have a dvi out since I am out of component inputs on my dwin projector. I dont want to cut off my nose to spite my face-or my pocketbook. Like the rest of you, I'd just like to see some honesty and integrity in information that we get from the cable company and local networks. I think the Wichita Eagle needs to do a story on this to stir up the pot a bit, because at this point I don't think the pot is being stirred at all.

I agree, dresf. Have you heard Cox's latest radio spot?

"HD Service from COX is FREE!! FREE!!. Including Local Channels!!"

I just about drove off the road when I heard that. How can they do that? Oh wait... they didn't say ALL local channels...they just said "including local channels.

Oh, those clever pigs. :)

Cox's ads also show both the cbs and abc logos. Last time I checked, only one of those stations was actually offered.

Does anyone know if any local retailers handle the Channel Master 4228? The Channel Master website says some ACE hardware's, and some Lowe's but niether did. My UHF RS works okay on my Samsung 150 but my HiPix only gets FOX, UPN, WB, and sometimes NBC. I'm assuming that the tuner in the Samsung is better that the HiPix but figured maybe a better UHF antenna would help also.

On another note I decided against the Cox "FREE" deal since it would cost me $20+ more a month, ($10.xx digital tier, $9.95 box rental).

Good call, edison. I think I get a lot more enjoyment out of my OTA set up. Hell, just knowing that it's not costing me a monthly fee makes me feel like I'm getting away with something. :)

Anyway, I got my antenna from Primetime Communications on West St. I don't think they carry the Channel Master, but they do have a few Winegard models. I got an HD7210 from them. It may not be what you're looking for, as it's a VHF/UHF model, and it's pretty large. It did fit nicely in my attic, though.

Regards. Jay.

Originally posted by chrisb25
Cox's ads also show both the cbs and abc logos. Last time I checked, only one of those stations was actually offered.

Well actually both are offered. ABC in Wichita. CBS in Topeka. Too bad because I rarely watch ABC, but I watch a ton of CBS.

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

What's up with the Fox digital signal lately? The network feed is compressed into a 4:3 picture. If the network feed is the high resolution widescreen, it's shown as 4:3 with everything compressed vertically and grey bars on the sides filling out the 16:9. If the network feed is 4:3 it's compressed vertically with black bars on the left/right sides filling out the 4:3 and grey bars on the sides filling out the 16:9. Anything local is shown correctly in 4:3. I first noticed it Thursday night during Tru Calling and again tonight during Mad TV. Is this a problem on your end? Hopefully it will be cleared up for football on Sunday and Tuesday night for 24. Just wondering...

Originally posted by vblyth
Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

I first noticed it Thursday night during Tru Calling and again tonight during Mad TV. Is this a problem on your end?


I noticed also Thursday during Tru Calling, I looked here for a number but IIRC there isn't a direct line to the control room. I noticed this afternoon that originally the KC/Detroit game had black bars on the sides plus the grey ones but in the last couple minutes they seem to have fixed it now I'm only getting the black ones on my 16:9 set.

I've been in and out of the office at the end of last week, I can't believe it was bad from Thursday night on. Sorry. I didn't get a trouble call until Sunday at the beginning of the Chiefs game and had the problem fixed within 15 minutes of the call.

Our upconverter locked up on it's own. good ol computers...

As far as it not being noticed earlier, there is no excuse. The operator watches 7 monitors at a time, they should have noticed the problem. Since we (engineering) are not in the office during prime, we won't see the digital feed unless we are watching at home. I will figure out a way for them to pay more attention to it.

FYI, the grey bars mean you are watching our upconverted feed, if you see black bars you are watching Fox's widescreen and they are not providing a wide image at the time. Most of you had figured that out.

jon

Well, I finally got my Superdish installed. I'm now online with local channels. So far, it's great! I can PVR local channels. Picture quality is decent (as good as any SD satellite channel and better than what I got from cable). Of course, I can still view all the local HD content OTA via my antenna.

Best part: I can tell Cox to stick it, except for internet, of course. But, hey my company pays for that.

Regards. Jay.

Since I have become an HD addict, I went by the Cox office in Wichita today to inquire about an HD box. I was told that they had no boxes and were not expecting any until mid January. When I asked about the "free" HD offer that expires at the end of January, they indicated that the offer may be extended. It seems that since Motorola is no longer producing the 5100 STB, there doesn't seem to be a big supply of the 6100 units available. At least the customer rep indicated that the only local channel available was KAKE. As for the other channels, Cox is in "negotiations".

Has anyone heard about reception of OTA in Derby Ks. Went to Primetime and they were pessimistic, although they have done no work in Derby:(

Any advice to this newby would be helpful. Hardware is perplexing - sounds like an industry needing top down shake down.

Called COX today to cancel my cable TV service, since I have access to locals on DISH. I had to argue with some CSR regarding the merits of Cable vs Satellite. She told me several falsehoods, like, with DISH locals I wouldn't get PBS, WB, or UPN. I told her this wasn't true, but she insisted (even though I have been getting those channels via DISH for a couple of weeks). I told her that the main reason for swithching from cable was PVR capability. She said, "Oh, we're getting that next year, so you should go ahead and keep your cable service now." This back and forth went on for 10 or 15 minutes.

I really hate to be rude with people, but I finally had to cut her off in the middle of her COX HD service talk and say, "Look, can you just do what I ask and shut it off?!!"

Still she told me that I was making a big mistake, but she would send someone out if that's really what I wanted to do.

Damn, that was frustrating.

Cox is the worst. I called like 5 months ago to see if I could get the special price on cable internet, they said NO. I call a month later to cancel all services, they say they can give me a much better deal than even what they were offering last month. SOB's. They cannot even get more than one local in HD.

Yea, I'd love to get rid of all their service, but the cable modem is the best deal for me right now, unfortunately. I canceled their cable TV service a long time ago in favor of DirecTV.

Dave G.

Over Thanksgiving I punted the last service I had with Cox. DSL has been available in my area for a while and I finally just punted Cox all together and saved money in the procedure. Their internet service had gotten so bad in my area that I could not play XBox Live without getting dropped at least 50% of the time. Very frustrating. Goodbye cable company and Good Riddance!!!

From a previous post, it should be obvious that I am no fan of Cox, but just for comparison sake could those of you that have DirecTV please list for me the channels that are available to you in HD.
Thanks!

dresf,
Have a look at this link...
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV_pricing.dsp
Regards,
Chance

Originally posted by charlie schwarz
Has anyone heard about reception of OTA in Derby Ks. Went to Primetime and they were pessimistic, although they have done no work in Derby:(

Any advice to this newby would be helpful. Hardware is perplexing - sounds like an industry needing top down shake down.

I am getting good reception in Derby. My antenna (old Weingard) is in my attic and I live in a low area East of Rock Road. The only time I have experienced any signal issues, it was usually from the source (based on the posts in this thread). I'm using the Samsung TS160 receiver.

About 3 months ago, I had COX come and drop my service from 'Standard' (all the normal channels, i.e History, USA, VH1 etc) to 'Limited Basic' (which is basically just the locals). Well, the tech came out, did something to the cable junction in the backyard and drove away without saying anything. When I checked it out, nothing had changed. I still got all the other channels.

Then, last week, I had them come to shut off the cable TV service completely, but leave my internet access intact. Again, a tech shows up (late) and plays with the cable junction in the backyard and drives away without saying anything. The first thing I checked was my internet access, and it was still operable. So far, so good. So, I checked out the TV and... you guessed it... I still have all the original channels!

I'm just letting off some steam here, I guess. This latest series of screw ups hasn't hurt me at all, of course. It just amazes me how consistently incompetent they can be.

Did you get either of the tech's names? I need to have them come out and unhook stuff too!! :D

Dave G.

Thanks for reply!
Good to know about reception. :D Pulled RG6 through this weekend. Original builder was compelled to use very large staples to hold rg59 cable. Have not heard of many people in Derby converting to OTA hdtv.

However stopped in at local Radio Shack Friday, they have sold in excess of 300 higher end antennas last year. 1 industutrious fellow strung two of Radio Shacks top end antenna together and is pulling down a signal from Udall. Of course on top off a very long pole.

How is the Samsung performing. Still have to make that decision.

Have buddy on Central south of Crestview using Antenna in attic, with Zenith Sat 520 and game Saturday night looked great.

All help is appreciated!

I'm at Pawnee and Web (southeast side). As I've stated before, I get all of the digital channels with a small set top antenna. I would think you could get them with a good outside/attic antenna. Derby isn't that much farther away.

I'll add also that the analog channels look like crap with that same antenna, so high signal strength isn't so necessary as a good reflection free signal (known as "ghosting" for analog channels).

Also, I have the Samsung TS-160. It's worked well since they did a couple of firmware upgrades. I do think the Sony/Zenith may have better PQ though. The one downside to the Sammy is the somewhat poorer black levels. Although not too bad, some dark images do lack some detail. I know this from comparing movies on HBOHD and the DVD version of the same movie. It's not terrible, but noticeable. The big plus of the Sammy though is the simultaneous s-video and component output.

Dave G.

Hey guys I'm over here on the south side of wichita by the turnpike, and currently getting good reception from all channels. However, CBS and NBC are at about 40% according to the signal meter. My question is this, are these local stations sending out a full 5.1 DD or just 2.1? I'm getting 5.1 on ABC and dolby prologic on FOX but thats it.

Some are, some aren't. I think Fox, UPN, and WB are all just 2.0. NBC, CBS, and ABC sometimes are doing DD5.1 I *think*. At least ABC does. Your receiver will always show 5.1 with ABC, although sometimes you're really only getting 2.0. It's a mix and probably not a problem on your end.

Dave G.

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

Sat afternoon and the StL-Car playoff game has started and the digital signal is 4:3 with gray bars. It's hard to believe that Fox isn't broadcasting this game in high resolution widescreen. Since there is no phone contact possible for KSAS on the weekends I can't verify/inform anyone of this possible problem. Oh well, back to the analog signal. :(

Vern-

We were aware of the problem, we had a satellite receiver failure. While we have a backup for our 4x3 feed, we only have one receiver for our 16x9 feed.

It took some time, but I got things switched around to use the backup receiver on 16x9 for the Sunday game.

Sorry! Once DTV ramps up more, I'm sure they'll send us an extra receiver for the 16x9.

jon

Jon,

Appreciate the info. It's good to know that you were on the problem and it's great that you were able to fix it by Sunday's game. Thanks.

Any news about when Fox Sports will start broadcasting in HD? The widescreen high res is better than analog but no where near the CBS/ABC HD. Hopefully, baseball and football next year will see Fox HD.

Fox announced Fall of 2004 they will begin 720p. We will switch from 1080i upconversion to 720p upconversion sometime before then, and will pass Fox through untouched once it is 720p. We also have money in the budget to add the necessary equipment to pass 5.1 audio sometime this year. Budgets can be changed though.

We are (along with all other affiliates) actually getting an extra dish for the Fox feed. It is being delivered today with installation not too far off. So this is a sure thing. There will be a long testing period, so I would not predict an earlier start time for 720p then the fall. The crews are working across the US installing the dishes.

Thanks for watching.

jon

Thanks for keeping us in the loop Jon - it is sincerely appreciated!

David

Thanks for the info Jon. We all look forward to the pure 720p and the 5.1 audio!

Jon,
Where are you going to fit another dish?
Good Luck,
David Bird

Bird-
You never know who's going to show up on this forum, do you....

Considering we put one of our last midsize dishes over the women's restroom, (we weren't sure of the roof's bearing capacity, or we would have put it over the mens ;) ) space is tight.

Dave is still trying to figure out where to put it, but we will probably lose more parking one way or another. In 5 years we've gone from 5 dishes to 10 soon to be 11, it's become an epidemic.

Was the Salt Lake thread a little boring? I'll try to keep my excuses for equipment malfunctions and reboots entertaining just in case you need a good laugh!

take care
jon

To - Talon95 and Quicksilver.

I was reading on hardware forum about those that had found a receiver at CC on the cheap(closeout). The receiver was the Zenith HDV-420. Found one but it was last in store from the display shelf. Price $209.

Since I had put a gargantuan antenna in attic(biggest from radio shack), thread my rg6, was anxious to get hooked up. Did and first experience was AFC championship. Once we were past the snow droplets on lens the picture was outstanding. The signal strength was consistently bouncing into the Good range:D .

The crazy part is - I have still run lead from antenna to preamp - to 3 way splitter and down to STB. The signal strength is still Good and sometimes bounces to end of Good. Have not tried 5.1 yet - too many things unplugged at the moment. Is there any foreseeable problems with the amp and splitter?

My next step was to try a straight feed from antenna w/o amp and splitter.

Thanks for info is past and future.

Charlie,

What is connected to what at this moment? I thought you were connected with a straight feed between your Zenith HD receiver and the antenna, but then you said that's the next step. I'm cornfused.

Before you add the pre-amp and splitter, adjust your antenna for maximum signal strength, by pointing it more to the left or right. Once that's done, what you do next will depend on the signal you have. If you have a solid signal on every channel, you most likely won't need the pre-amp at all, so just try the splitter and see what happens.

Good luck.

David

Just an update on HDTV experiences with me...
I wrote a piece a few months back about "bouncing" signal on ABC. I had purchased a directional outdoor antenna from RadioShark first, which caused a certain amount of quality. Then, based upon some advice, I purchased another outdoor antenna from Don's here in town. Again, excellent antenna. 4 bowties and big mesh screen on the back to kill bounces.
Sadly, the same issue was happening on ABC, signal going from 80% to 100% in rapid succession.
Onto antenna #3, as suggested in this thread.... the Zenith Silver Sensor. WOO-HOO! Now, all the local channels are up 100% of the time. No reception issues. I gotta believe the outdoor antennas were simply getting TOO MUCH signal. I know that sounds a little off-base, but that simply has to be my issue. Maybe that is Charlies' issue too.
Anyway, my humble opinion is: if you are in Sedgwick County, give the old Zenith a shot first, pointing it at the Colwich tower farm. Unless, of course, you are between Colwich and Hutchinson, then you are gonna need to point it at Hutch for 8 and 12 and the rest are in Colwich.
Incidentally, thank you to everyone who helped me during this process. I value your input.
Jon: that is very cool news about 24 going to 720p and 5.1 -- I will look forward to an update on that!

Haysdb

Charlie,

What is connected to what at this moment? I thought you were connected with a straight feed between your Zenith HD receiver and the antenna, but then you said that's the next step. I'm cornfused.

Currently - Antenna connected pre-amp connected to splitter connected to STB. All channels I would guess in the range of 90-95% except PBS - probably at 60-75%. Mild fluctuations in all signals - maybe 15% up and down. The signal up and down doesn't change picture that I can tell. Don't know if this is caused by pre-amp or just nature of signal?
No ghosting - very clean picture.

Next step would be to try w/o pre-amp and splitter. That setup was there originally from previous home owner.

Charlie, if you are getting all stations strong, don't mess with it! :D

I suspect the pre-amp is not necessary, so if you feel like experimenting, I'd remove that and see what happens. If the splitter is of good quality, it should not have any adverse effect on the signal. Yes, you do loose some signal, but with a digital signal, you either get it perfectly, or you don't get it at all.

David

Is anybody having any sound issues over the air on ABC? For some reason, I wasn't getting any sound yesterday.

Hey everyone,

I checked the Silvor Sensor post over in the hardware forum and the reviews seem to be about 70/30 in favor of the Silvor Sensor working rather well. My tv is in the basement of my house (on the very north end of Mulvane) - just wondering if anyone else in the Wichita-Metro area uses the Silvor Sensor and how well it works for them (especially in a basement)??

Mark

I tried the Silver Sensor in my basement in Goddard. I could get some of the channels, but not all. In the end, I ended up going with an attic mounted antenna. That gives me all seven channels with no problems.

Regards. Jay.

I tried the Silver Sensor in my basement in NE Wichita and was able to get 4 out of 8 channels. I then ran a cable to my garage attic, put the SS up there and I get all of the channels with no problems. Great deal for the money as compared to some other antennas.

Well,
I bought a Motorola HDT-100 last weekend from Circuit City. I wanted the Silvor Sensor to go with it, but had to go to Best Buy to get one. They were out so I chickened out and bought a Jensen Amplified FM/VHF/UHF combo instead. Could pickup FOX, WB, and UPN only (and that was only upstairs - I didn't even bother trying it in the basement where my DTV is). So now my dilemma is this... I am planning on returning the Jensen and picking up a Silver Sensor from Sears tonight. However, I have a feeling that it won't work much better. TitanTV is recommending the Winegard Sensar II amplified antenna for an attic installation - does anyone have any experience with the Sensar II's? Just wondering how well they work in comparison with the Silvor Sensors from Zenith. I live on the north end of Mulvane by the way...

And if anyone has any early results from the new Winegard SquareShooter, please let me know... I have a pretty clear line of sight on the northwest corner of my house pointing to the towers... a squareshooter would fit nicely right up under the roof peak.

Mark

Well, if any of you have been paying attention to this forum and the hardware forum over the last week, you know by now that I have been trying to get OTA HD in time for the Superbowl. I live on the north end of Mulvane and have been posting many questions on which receiver/antenna to purchase for the job. I bought a Motorola HDT-100 from Circuit City last Friday along with a Jensen Amplified VHF/UHF combo antenna from Best Buy. I got it home and hooked them up to my standard TV upstairs to test the antenna's capabilities - I must say I was rather disappointed with the results. I was only able to receive Fox, UPN, and The WB. While these channels looked excellent (much better than their Cable counterparts in fact) I was still not getting KWCH. After much worrying and fretting about which type of antenna to try next, I had pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I would have to install a large antenna in the attic and figure out a way to run the cable to the basement in order to view the SuperBowl in HD this year.

But, last night, with some reluctance, I purchased a Zenith Silver Sensor. I placed it on my kitchen table and ran the autoscan, not expecting much better results than before. Holy Hell was I surprised! It picked up all the stations without even breaking a sweat. Even KWCH looked good, and it's 45 miles away according to antennaweb.org. I never would have guessed the flimsy, artsy-looking, space-gun contraption would have done the job but it did. I haven't tried it out downstairs on the DTV yet, but I have a feeling it will work as long as it sits up high on top of the TV. And if not, well then I will just leave it connected to the 50 ft. coax cable and move it upstairs to the ledge if need be for the big game!

Just thought I would post the results here for everyone to see - I live on the north end of Mulvane, about two blocks east of Rock Road (right next to the new high school). I have a pretty clear line of sight to the towers but I was truly expecting an attic installation in order to receive the stations; I have a newfound respect for Zenith products (another story in and of itself - basically lost confidence in them but recently have purchased two or three Zenith products and have been amazed at the results).

And by the way, the Silver Sensor was $10 cheaper than the Jensen!

Mark

Congratulations Mark, the Superbowl in HD will awesome! I heard of the Silver Sensor on this forum 4 months ago and I have been very satisfied with it's performance, especially for it's size and price.

There was a message earlier in this thread about Cox not scrambling the HDTV channels on their digital cable. Is there anyone that reads this thread that has a set with an integrated QAM tuner that has Cox cable? Best Buy has a TV I am interested in that has bulit in 8VSB and QAM tuners.

Anyone???

Tim, it would really defeat the purpose of integrated tuners if they didn't work, wouldn't it? Man, what a brouhaha that would create in the halls of congress!

David

My dad lives 100yds in Oklahoma, just south of Ark City. We can get all channels in digital, except PBS only comes in at night and CBS only comes in 98% of the time.

CM antenna and preamp on 30ish ft pole
Zenith HDV420

We put the latest CM 7777 amplifier on order. I'll let you know if it helps.
Are PBS and CBS broadcasting at full power? Are their digital transmitters at the same spot as their analog ones? Can anyone at this range pick up PBS consistently? It sounds like from other posts the HUGHES HTL-HD will do a better job of picking up weak signals. Maybe I'll switch.

Sorry if this is a repost, but 33pgs is a little unwieldy. Maybe we can add a note to first post about if everyone is broadcasting full power?

gfgray-

Are these Wichita based affiliates?

jon

gfgray,
The CBS(KWCH) and PBS(KPTS) transmitters are located just east of Hutchinson which puts them around 85 miles from you. The other stations are just east of Colwich with a distance of 60 miles. CBS and PBS are pushing deep fringe reception and I would expect a few drop outs at times. PBS turns on their Digital transmitter in the evening during prime time which accounts for no reception in daytime hours. I have not heard if CBS or PBS is running at full power but I would say your antenna install is doing good job. Have you tried to receive any of the Tulsa stations? They look to be around 80 miles so you may be able to receive a few. Check out this link for more info on Oklahoma HDTV stations.
http://www.hdtvok.com

Regards,
Chance

Um, this is rather embarrassing, but is the Super Bowl supposed to be in High Definition? My digital channel 12-1 is black. Is it just me?

David

It's working fine here David. Maybe the snow is causing some problems.

Dave G.

OK, thanks. That's what I was afraid of.

David

During the half time show, the sound was stuttering some though. I'm not sure if that's CBS or a reception problem. Picture looked ok.

Dave G.

My signal strength on 19 (12-1) is a whopping 18. If I were a died-in-the-wool football fan, I'd be up in the attic, twisting my antenna this way and that. I could swear it was tuned already though, so I may or may not accomplish anything. I'm damn near within spitin' distance of the towers, so it doesn't make sense. I should be able to tune those channels with a COAT HANGER.

David

I experienced no problems with the game OTA here in NE Wichita. Great game too with that game-winning field goal winning me some $$$ !!!

I just had Cox install a HD box for me. (Of course my cable was promptly out of service for 2 hours.) After it came back on, I noticed that I'm not getting DD5.1 on SHOHD or KAKE10. Is anyone getting 5.1 surround from their Cox HD box? Or am I missing a setting on the Moto6200? Appreciate any info. Thanks.


Found the problem. Needed to change the audio output from pcm stream to dolby digital on the hdbox. I just had to poke around in the menus more to find it.

As far as I can ascertain there are not too many offerings on ABC that are 5.1, and Showtime seems to be less than 50% of the time. HBO seems to be a little more frequent. The HDTVGalaxy website has a list of which programs are 5.1 on virtually all the HD channels.

New to the whole HD world, but had to heap my praise on the Silver Sensor antenna. I have mine zip tyed to a truss in my attic, aimed towards the NW< and I pick up everyhting EXCEPT digital 8.
I am at 159th East and Kellogg, and am using the Samsung SIR-T165 receiver. I am amazed by that little bugger, I so expected to be out putting a pole on the house.

Christian

Originally posted by ckentling
New to the whole HD world, but had to heap my praise on the Silver Sensor antenna. I have mine zip tyed to a truss in my attic, aimed towards the NW< and I pick up everyhting EXCEPT digital 8.
I am at 159th East and Kellogg, and am using the Samsung SIR-T165 receiver. I am amazed by that little bugger, I so expected to be out putting a pole on the house.

Christian

Christian - I agree whole-heartedly. I live down in Mulvane on the north end. I had tried an amplified Jensen indoor antenna and could only get FOX, WB, and UPN (and it had to be sitting on top of my table near the window). I exchanged it for a Silver Sensor and got all the channels (even with it on the floor, in the corner, etc. etc.). That was upstairs - I moved it downstairs to my bigscreen and can get every channel except the two PBS stations with it just sitting on top of my TV (I do have to re-position it occasionally to get a lock on NBC but it's no big deal). The Silver Sensor is an amazing piece of engineering (and I'm an engineer). It was $10 cheaper than the Jensen and far outperforms it - I mean, seriously, the CBS tower is 48 miles away from my house and it locks on without a hitch in the basement with no windows and no positioning whatsoever. Truly an amazing antenna!!!!

Mark

Is anyone watching the pre-race for Daytona on NBC? I'm getting a lot of audio/video breakup. NBC normally has no problems, so I'm assuming it's either a local problem to Wichita or the NBC feed itself.

Dave G.

Originally posted by talon95
Is anyone watching the pre-race for Daytona on NBC? I'm getting a lot of audio/video breakup. NBC normally has no problems, so I'm assuming it's either a local problem to Wichita or the NBC feed itself.

Dave G.

Well I can't get anything above 13-14 on my signal for KSNW. I'm getting everything else in with no problems. :( :(

I think KSN is having problems. They've switched back to a 4x3 image right now.

Dave G.

Anyone watching the Nascar race on Fox? I'm getting some consistent breakup, mainly on the lower half of the screen. Signal is constant at 93.

Dave G.

Dave-

I didn't hear any compaints that weekend from our operator, but they are watching several monitors at once. Let me know if you still have the problem. I was waiting to reply to see if anyone else would reply to your question.

Let me know if it happens again. Hopefully it won't, I'm working a lot of weekends on a personal project, but I'll try to catch a race and scrutinize it when I can.

jon

Thanks Jon. It appeared to be a similar problem to what we saw at the beginning of last year, but since no one else seems to have had a problem, maybe it's on my end. I'll give an update after the next race.

Dave G.

We have a UPN digital transmitter problem that might not get resolved tonight, but we have parts on their way just in case.
We'll get it back on asap.

So if you don't see 36-1, that's why.

jon

Thanks for keeping us posted. BTW, I had forgotten to report on the last Nascar race. I only saw the last 20 laps or so, but the picture/sound was perfect during that time.

Dave G.

Hey, does anyone know why the NCAA games were not broadcast in HD on CBS over the weekend? Titan TV was showing HD for the CBS games, maybe this weekend they will be in HD...

Mark

Here's the link on CBS HD coverage:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=372855

According to the link the games from KC this weekend will be in HD.

Ok, we finally got an HD receiver. Where in Wichita is a good place to pick up an antenna? We are in Wellington, about 30 miles south. I hooked the receiver up to the existing antenna (old one on a 30' tower) and can't seem to get anything except WB and sometimes Fox. Any suggestions on what to get and where to get it? Thanks.

Tim

Any news when Cocks will decide to provide the broadcast networks (except KAKE) in HD? Anyone figure out why this is the case?

Anyone in Wellington getting OTA HD? I'm getting a Dish 811 in 2 weeks and was trying to find what kind of antenna combo anyone was using down here.......

Originally posted by mkultra
Any news when Cox will decide to provide the broadcast networks (except KAKE) in HD? Anyone figure out why this is the case?

I don't think anyone knows for sure but if you follow the national issues I bet COX and the local affiliates can't come to terms about 'digital must carry rules' and any costs associated with such an agreement.

I personally hope that Cox isn't forced to carry every digital sub channel that each local station can/will provide. Channel 8 is the first example. I really don't want stations sucking away our 19.8 Mbs to provide 24 hour radar, news, and shopping channels. Many HD programs will suck if that happens.

I believe Cox is ready and willing to pass those signals along. If you look at the TiVo guide, it clearly shows were each HD station will wind up. Someone had to pass that info along to TiVo's guide service.

It would be interesting to hear from Jon at KSAS and see what their side of the story is... Jon? Can you give us any ideas on what the holdup is? Thanks.

I'm about ready to buy a 'low end' STB and get my local HD that way.

You hit it on the nose, the major diagreement has to do with giving the stations the full 19Mb. Cox just wants the HD signals, to save bandwidth. There are other things in the future such as interactive TV, and other things that most stations would like to have the right to reserve the space for. Multicasting (such as KPTS is doing) can be done well also, depending on the content (sports vs talking heads) and equipment. Both sides have valid points.

All this aside, this battle is beyond our local stations, and is being negotiated by our corporate lawyers and Cox's corporate lawyers. I assume the same is being done at the other local stations, and will be resolved by the corporate groups one at a time. It's out of our hands here, as far as I understand.

That's all that I know, and I'm sure there is a lot more to the issue we don't know about. Just know that we share in your frustration. Our goal is to get as many eyeballs watching our stations as possible, and this situation doesn't help. I haven't heard anything in the past few months, I will check and see if there is any new information.

Thanks for the update Jon. I can't wait to see FOX in HD this fall, even if I have to buy a STB to do it!

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

Rumors are circulating that Fox will be providing the MLB All Star Game in HD for the stations that have the HD gear installed. Any date on when KSAS will have the HD equipment installed and ready to go?

The Fox announcement that they will broadcast up to 6 NFL games a week in HD this year is also excellent news!

Jon,
While you are here reading, do you know anyone at KTMJ in topeka? I cannot get anyone there to return calls or emails.

thanks!

PS If I could get your station, I would watch it over them!!

vblyth-

I haven't seen a sheet on the game being offered in HD, there could have been one, and it didn't make it to my desk though. I'll check up on it.
Anyways, our new Sat dish is not completely finished because parts didn't arrive before the installation team moved on to other stations. So we will still need them to finish their work and provide us with the new receivers.
Originally they were going to come back during March, but that got delayed.

The HD switching equipment that will switch between our upconverted commercials and syndicated shows and Fox's HD is here and I will install it at the the same time Fox is finishing up. I will post on this forum when we will be switching to 720p so you guys will have a head's up.

Tim-
I don't know anybody, but my boss might, I'll see if I can get you a contact of some kind.

jon

Appreciate the update Jon. Thanks!

Looks like Fox has moved up the date for the 720p broadcasts starting with several key sporting events starting in July.

Here's a link if you haven't already heard :

http://broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_fox_sports_offer/index.htm

We should be ready for them, and again I will post when we are switching formats.

jon

Woohoo... more NASCAR in HD starting this summer! Thanks Jon. This makes me happy because I can pick up KSAS-HD OTA with no problems! :)

I've been unable to get _any_ HD reception for a few months. I originally blamed it on the wind moving my antenna but I tried adjusting it to no avail.

I've always had spotty reception anyway and blamed it on power lines and a sub-station to the north and west of me (I live near 13th and Woodlawn in NE Wichita). I have a Radio Shack UHF/VHF chimney mounted antenna and a Samsung SIR-T151 tuner.

My questions:

1. Has anything changed in the last few months that would prevent me from getting any signal?

2. Would the power lines and sub-station prevent me from getting a signal?

3. How would I check to see if I just have a bad connection?

4. Should I go to HD cable? I can't find much info on Cox's web site about what local channels you can actually get in HD or what it actually costs.

5. Should I go to satellite? Some of the info I've seen on DirectTV inferred that they use an antenna to get local feeds. That wouldn't do me much good.

Thanks in advance,
Wolf

Originally posted by scotwolf
I've been unable to get _any_ HD reception for a few months. I originally blamed it on the wind moving my antenna but I tried adjusting it to no avail.

I've always had spotty reception anyway and blamed it on power lines and a sub-station to the north and west of me (I live near 13th and Woodlawn in NE Wichita). I have a Radio Shack UHF/VHF chimney mounted antenna and a Samsung SIR-T151 tuner.

My questions:

1. Has anything changed in the last few months that would prevent me from getting any signal?

2. Would the power lines and sub-station prevent me from getting a signal?

3. How would I check to see if I just have a bad connection?

4. Should I go to HD cable? I can't find much info on Cox's web site about what local channels you can actually get in HD or what it actually costs.

5. Should I go to satellite? Some of the info I've seen on DirectTV inferred that they use an antenna to get local feeds. That wouldn't do me much good.

Thanks in advance,
Wolf

I would imagine you probably have a problem in the line somewhere if you readjusted the antenna. I would also check the tuner. Depending on where you live, you could get a short RG6 cable and hookup rabbit ears to see if the tuner works.

As far as Cox, all the local channels they have in Wichita is KAKE. The only have one in the Topeka market also.

Directv does use an antenna to do locals in HD, so the situation wouldn't change.

Wolf,

Do you have any friends with an HD OTA receiver? If so, check their box at your house and see if it works... I would also recommend checking the cable for loose connectors at both ends. Best Buy has a fairly liberal return policy... I might suggest picking up a short RG6 cable from Best Buy along with a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. The SS is one of the best OTA antennas around in my opinion and should work well in your location. (I have a SS in my basement in Mulvane and get all the channels).

Thanks for the replies.

I tried the Silver Sensor when I first got my tuner (last fall). I couldn't get anything. I also tried a powered antenna from Radio Shack. The only thing I could get to work was the roof mounted antenna (and then I had to get it really high on the roof).

I've always blamed it on the power lines / substation?? I also have some tall trees in my yard.

I'll check my connections tonight.

Thanks again,
Wolf

Wolf,

I'm at 21st North & Woodlawn. I have a SIR-T351 tuner in my basement with a 50ft RG6 cable connected to a Silver Sensor in my garage attic. I get all the local digital channels with no problems. Check those connections along with the cable. If still have no signal, there might be a problem with your box. You should be getting a signal from your location.

I also have Cox HD. The only local is KAKE and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. However if you are interested in HBOHD, SHOHD, and ESPNHD and not the locals, I have had no complaints with Cox HD (so far).

I have heard rumors of Cox having Fox here in the Topeka market, but nobody from KTMJ Fox 43 in Topeka will call me back.

Did you guys hear about the deal Cox made with national PBS? I was told by the GM of the PBS in Topeka they should be on within a month on Cox.

Does anyone experience intermintent audio droputs on COX HD? I was watching Harry Potter (edited from 2.35:1 to 1.78:1 yuck) and had multiple droputs that lasted about a second or so. This might occur with the regular digital channels also but I can't recall.

Or anyone experience this OTA? My box is connected to a Denon 4802.

This is really annoying.....thanks

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

At 8:17pm Fox Widescreen disappeared and was replaced by 4:3 with grey bars and never returned. Why during 24? Why? :(

I had to wait for the operator to come in and explain.
He had some problems with the 4x3 Fox Receiver and had to switch to the backup 4x3 receiver. Doing this disengages the automatic switch for the DTV stream and 16x9 receiver.
He should have manually switched it, but he was probably distracted by the problem. He would have to switch it for every commercial break there after also.

We'll probably have these kind of things until our stream is primarily digital/HD in house as opposed to analog with a digital sidecar.

It was an honest oversight, and we will keep a closer eye on it.

jon

Thanks Jon... did the problem manifest itself on regular cable with some really bad "stutters" during American Idol and the first part of 24? I thought my TiVo's hard drive was having a problem until I ruled that out.

Hippster - I assume that was the issue, I didn't take time to review the tape. We haven't had a problem since that I know of.

I switched us to 720p today, our new switching equipment is being installed. For the time being this is upconverted 720p, we are still receiving Fox at 480p and cranking it up.

We should be true 720p by the end of June.

Theoretically you shouldn't have to rescan the channels. My receivers (pro and consumer) locked on in a couple of seconds.

If you have any problems post them here so everyone can compare notes.

Thanks for your input
jon

Great news on the 720P Jon! Sounds like the All-Star game in HD may be reality! Just checked and I'm getting your digital signal without rescanning for it. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Audio during the nascar race cuts out frequently OTA. Impossible to watch. I had to switch to cable, and checked back during commercials. It has continued through the entire race.

Anyone else confirm the audio problem during the race? I was out of town and the other engineers were unaware of a problem. That doesn't mean there wasn't a problem though.

I went over everything today, and it all checks out ok now.

Tonezone-
Was the problem only during the race? If you noticed the problem during an obviously local commercial, that would help my troubleshooting. But I don't expect you to remember that far back or pay that close of attention.

Let me know if you are still having problems, and I will also keep an ear on it.

Thanks
jon

I know it's not HD related, but can anyone in Wichita comment on the picture quality of the locals Directv started up today? If you have Directv, you should get a free 2 month preview of the locals.

tim

Regarding the DirecTV locals, I can see a big difference in the picture quality, especially on my 55 inch HDTV. If you have the digital versions of the locals over the air, it is comparable to that quality.

Originally posted by chrisb25
Regarding the DirecTV locals, I can see a big difference in the picture quality, especially on my 55 inch HDTV. If you have the digital versions of the locals over the air, it is comparable to that quality.

Wow, that is saying alot. Don't ask, but we now have the KC locals and they look pretty good, expect for 2 channels, the WB and UPN affiliates. Maybe I need to "move" in with one of you all.

I am really concerned about what Directv will do or not do with markets like Topeka who do not have an WB or UPN affiliates.

Originally posted by timmy1376
I know it's not HD related, but can anyone in Wichita comment on the picture quality of the locals Directv started up today? If you have Directv, you should get a free 2 month preview of the locals.

tim

I just checked mine. The D* locals are very close in quality to the OTA digital channels I receive with the TS-160. I would give the edge to all of the OTA channels that are upconverting to 1080i though, but it's not a huge difference. Of course that's only when the OTA channels are showing non-HD material. :)

Dave G.

Got the call tonight. The Cox HD DVR boxes are available. I will be picking it up tomorrow. I got onto the waiting list on May 8th and was in the top 15. Here's the details I was able to get from the Cox rep who called.

The box is a Motorola DCT6412. The unit was announced in May.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/051304motorola/
http://www.twice.com/article/CA414728?display=Breaking+News

Link to the user manual:
http://broadband.motorola.com/noflash/customer_docs/user_guides/512659-001-a.pdf

Dual tuner, 120 GB Harddrive. However, the current software only
supports the single tuner. :mad: Software should be updated by late summer. The rep was not sure if the DVI/Firewire interface was activated with the current software. The box uses the Pioneer's Passport interface.

Originally posted by vblyth


Dual tuner, 120 GB Harddrive. However, the current software only
supports the single tuner. :mad: Software should be updated by late summer. The rep was not sure if the DVI/Firewire interface was activated with the current software. The box uses the Pioneer's Passport interface.

At least it's dual tuner capable. No way I would have given up the Directv tivo to go back to a single tuner. I may have to take a look when they get dual tuners going.

Let us know how you like it and if you have a camera, I would love screenshots.

tim

Originally posted by vblyth
Got the call tonight. The Cox HD DVR boxes are available.

Got my call tonight... pick mine up tomorrow. :)

Until TiVo has a standalone HD recorder this one will have to do the job.

Originally posted by Hippster
Got my call tonight... pick mine up tomorrow. :)


Got mine hooked up tonight. Everything seems fine except I'm having trouble with the DVI connection. The unit sees the DVI and then keeps losing it. Be curious if you have the same problems, Hippster, if you use the DVI out.

Please let us know what the DVI problem turns out to be.
Is the firewire enabled?
Did Cox supply the DVI cable?

How much are you paying monthly for the box? Also, do I understand correctly that this box provides an HD tuner and records in HD? Does it include OTA HD capability?

Originally posted by chrisb25
How much are you paying monthly for the box? Also, do I understand correctly that this box provides an HD tuner and records in HD? Does it include OTA HD capability?

Not to hone in, but I think the cost is $9.95 for the rental and $4.95 for the DVR function. It will NOT do OTA signals, just QAM cable signals and will record the cable HD channels, along with the SD cable channels.


tim

I'd be interested in this...if Cox actually had all locals in HD! Don't feel like losing my OTA HD locals.

Originally posted by chrisb25
I'd be interested in this...if Cox actually had all locals in HD! Don't feel like losing my OTA HD locals.

That's probably the most important factor for all of us. $15 a month is better than paying $1000 for a HD Tivo right now.

Originally posted by timmy1376
Not to hone in, but I think the cost is $9.95 for the rental and $4.95 for the DVR function. It will NOT do OTA signals, just QAM cable signals and will record the cable HD channels, along with the SD cable channels.
tim

Tim is correct on the cost and on the OTA signals. I am going to use the DVR to mostly record HD movies. I can't think of too many times during the past TV season when I wanted to watch an OTA HD show and tape another.

The DVI was activated but I was getting a HDCP authorization error. I could set the menu for DVI and get the signal to my set (and it looked great!) but if I powered down the unit, the DVI signal would shut down. I know HDCP is supported by my Sammy DLP so I am assuming it may be a software issue. I will pursue this with Cox tonight. I was told that the DVI and Firewire were activated, but I don't know if the Firewire would have the same HDCP problem.

At $15/month, I have a breakeven point of 5.5 years based on a $1000 TIVO unit, plus you still have to pay TIVO's monthly fee on top of the hardware cost. If Cox comes out with new units (more tuners, larger hard drive, etc), I just swap out the box. Won't have that option if I own the hardware. I just have to get over paying Cox every month.

Yes... but the box isn't a TiVo. Just got mine hooked up. While the picture quality is excellent, I find the recording features and capabilities to be very non-intuitive unlike a TiVo. It's better than not being able to record HD so for $15 a month I'll try it for a while.

Originally posted by Hippster
Yes... but the box isn't a TiVo. Just got mine hooked up. While the picture quality is excellent, I find the recording features and capabilities to be very non-intuitive unlike a TiVo. It's better than not being able to record HD so for $15 a month I'll try it for a while.

I should have stated differently.

Right now, I can do $15 a month. I however, cannot do $1000.

I would MUCH prefer the HD Tivo, but finances dictate otherwise.

Originally posted by timmy1376
Right now, I can do $15 a month. I however, cannot do $1000. I would MUCH prefer the HD Tivo, but finances dictate otherwise.

I'm in the same boat.

The point I was attempting to make was that if you are used to a TiVo... this box will be a struggle.

I have just installed the dvr-hd box replacing the old one. I too am having the DVI issue, the tech on the phone says its being worked on and they will let me know when there is a fix. If one of you figures it out, post please

After researching the DVI issue some of us are having in other areas of the forum, it appears that this is a known issue and that a quick fix is not on the horizon.

Other than the fact that I would sure like to use the box via DVI, it does function well through the component and the DVR functions reasonably well. Still happy I have it but they promised dvi was active and functioning.

Originally posted by Jon@KSAS/KSCC
I switched us to 720p today, our new switching equipment is being installed. For the time being this is upconverted 720p, we are still receiving Fox at 480p and cranking it up.

We should be true 720p by the end of June.
jon

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

The end of June and the MLB AllStar game are fast approaching. How's the conversion to HD going? Any word from Fox if the AllStar game will be available in HD? ESPNHD is carrying the homerun contest in HD, so the equipment will be there.

Thanks

Contractors for Fox will be here Monday to retune our dishes. I'll let you know at that point. There is nothing locally holding us up after the retune, it would only be something at the network that could keep it from happening.

I'll see if I can confirm the offering of the All Star game in HD.

I'll definitely post when it is all complete. Or if there is a holdup for some reason.

jon

Appreciate the info once more, Jon. Even if Fox doesn't deliver the All Star game, at least it sounds like they will make up for it with the HD NFL coverage!

I have been enjoying this thread with a Magic 8 Ball speaking out on the Fox/All Star game issue. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=413735&pagenumber=4

Hi all! I'm new to the forum and have a few HD questions. I recently bought an Dish Net. 811 receiver and have had no problems with it. I receive Dish Network's HD package and am very pleased, with one exception. I should also mention that I have a HDTV Ready 47" Widescreen Samsung TV.

So here are my questions: ESPN HD is not even close to what I expected. Watching the College World Series today, the picture was better on standard ESPN (ch 140) than on ESPN HD (ch 9424). It's hard to describe, but the HD picture is fuzzy. Like looking out a screen door. The colors are crisp, but there are fuzzy lines through it. All the other HD channels are perfect. Is this a ESPN signal problem or is it something I need to change?

Regarding Local channels, I get all the locals OTA, and they come in clear. My question for these is: what programs should be in widescreen and what programs should have black/grey bars on the side? (For example, the evening local news has the black bars) And what is the reasoning for the black/grey bars?

I realize my questions are rather vauge, but any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, y'all. I'm new here as well. I have Voom with the OTA antenna. Now, antennaweb.org says I should be getting 7 digital stations.

WB, FOX ABC, NBC from Wichita & CBS, PBS, UPN from Hutch. What are these stations actually transmitting? Is it true HD or just 480p? Obviously, I know what's going on at FOX (thanks to Jon) but not the other stations.

Should have posted earlier.

We have been taking our Fox Digital 24-1 off during the day for tower climbers who are working on an FM antenna close to our digital antenna.

It will be off for a little bit today also. But we should have it on by prime every day we take it off.

Still working on solid answer about Fox's coverage of All Star Game, our dishes are being tuned as I write (Fox is moving to different satellites).

mRoyal1 -

When you see grey side bars, you most likely are watching a locally upconverted signal (at least that is what we are doing on Fox). We use grey as opposed to black to help fight burn in especially on plasmas.
There's still argument out about what is best, but it's also an easy way to tell when we are in network.

jon

No Fox HD until Sept 12th. That is the official word we were given today.

Testing will begin with our splicers in August. Thought it was odd, all of these rumors floating around without us going through a test period for our equipment.

The Fox engineering group is a very thorough operation.

Sorry to disappoint, but it's better to have an error free broadcast.

We are prepared at our local station for it, with all equipment installed and proper signal levels on our receivers. The decision when to switch to 720p is at the network.

jon

Thanks for the info Jon. I look forward to Fox HD this fall (football!!!).

Hello all,
We just got a HD tv last week. We bought a TERK indoor antenna at Best Buy. It would not get KAKE, KWCH, and the PBS stations. I took it back and now have a Silver Sensor (read the good comments here) and get all channels but KAKE. I have the antenna sitting on top of the TV pointing West/North West. I live in Park City.
Is there something special with the KAKE signal? I noticed the towers of KAKE, KSAS, KWCV, and KSNW are close together, would this have anything to do with it?

Thanks

Are you in a house or an apt? If you are in a house try extending it to the attic.

Adam

I picked up a motorola 6412 yesterday at Cox, they have a special for $10.00 over my standard cable bill for 3 months, including HBO/MAX/SHOW for free those 3 months.

A couple of questions for those of you that have the Motorola box or Cox HD for a while, I can't seem to access the box settings it says to power the unit off and press "menu" on the box this brings up a screen that says "Press power to turn the unit on". Also not all of the HD channels were coming in so I had to call back after autoauthorizing the box, the tech said some of the codes had not been entered so he fixed them and re-authorized the box. He mentioned I shouldn't be getting Discovery HD but went ahead and added it for the trial period, is there now an extra charge for DISCHD? So if I get it correctly the HD tier (once my trial is over) would only be KAKE, ESPN HD, and INHD 1 & 2?

Both people I talked to last night one on the local number, and one on the national 800 number said that all the locals available in HD would be there by the end of the year. I'll believe it when I see it, if I still have the unit then....

I also had problems at first accessing the settings on the 6412. You have to power the box off and hit the menu button on the box within 15 seconds for the menu to display. Also, the current software for these boxes has problems. Cox has said an update will be made in late summer to fix the problems and also add support for a second tuner. There is an additional $4.95 per month charge for DISCHD. KAKE is the only current local and I strongly doubt that this will change by the end of the year. If your current deal includes HBO/MAX/SHOW then you should also be getting HBOHD and SHOHD. STARZHD is also available.

Here is the link for the current Cox HD lineup:
http://www.cox.com/kansas/digitalcable/cityinfo.asp?City=Wichita#HDTV

Are any of you having on and off problems on the HD tier especially with INHD 2? Pixelization and signal errors to be specific.

Another inconvienance I have is that when I first power on I get a screen message that says the channel number and that this is a subscription channel. If I wait a few seconds it usually comes in but sometimes one has to change the channel and go back and voila.

P.S. 1
From a unnamed source in an unnamed very high place: don't hold your breath for a firmware upgrade for the 6412 until fall at best

P.S. 2

I also doubt that any locals will be added to the lineup anytime soon

dresf,

I am having the exact problems you are having with the pixelization on INHD (especially during the "In Theaters" show) and the screen messages that this is a subscription channel, switch channels and everything is fine. I had a Cox guy over and his response was it will be fixed with the software upgrade. Standard Cox HD-DVR answer for when you have no clue. I installed a signal amplifier, so I know that getting enough signal to the box is not the problem.

However, even with the bugs I am enjoying the HD-DVR and will be keeping it.

I also had a signal amp put in a few weeks ago. And although it did not fix that problem it fixed some others and improved reception in other areas of the house. I forget the exact amount I paid them for it, but less than $70 for sure. After shopping for some on my own I determined that that was a good deal to have them do it, besides it makes it clear when there is a problem that it is with their equipment. I too am enjoying the dvr and you could not pry it from me. But I do look forward to the upgrades.


eric

Originally posted by timmy1376
That's probably the most important factor for all of us. $15 a month is better than paying $1000 for a HD Tivo right now.

I'm willing to argue that point. I got mine from Wholesale Connections for $849. My HD Tivo is an absoulute Gem....no, it's magnificient! Now that the wife can have Tivo with HD, our worlds are at peace once again! I consider that a small price to pay :)

Flyboy

I suppose spending $850 doesn't seem too bad for some...until the hard drive bites it. At least with Cox, you just get a "new" box - and they will deliver it!

Since this is the Wichita thread thought I would post about the new Samsung 531 box I purchased. I got it at a local best buy for $300. I bought a 50 dollar antennae from Don's TV. He apparently had tested several antennae models and this worked the best for HD signal. I live in Mulvane and put the antennae on my chminey and it isn't very big and ran Cox wire for 10cts a foot into my house, the parts total cost was around $120. I ran this to my STB which then runs to my Sammy dlp and I can't believe how much better the picture quality is over cox sd and HD. I pick up 3-1, 8-1, 8-2, 10, 12 (with 8 bars of reception), 24, and two other channels in the 30's. Reception is excellent and the box is not even warm to the touch as compared to last year's model 165. I can't wait till the Olympics start and getting some football games on HD besides ESPN and monday night football. I figured I was done waiting on Cox to get these channels on line plus its a real kick to get the OTA signals free and looking so much better than the cable HD signals. Apparently the OTA signals are 720p native from the 3 major networks and Fox is soon to come onboard. With Cox I am getting 1080i.

Jon,
I was curious if your station(s) were in talks with Cox about getting on the HD tier? I was told by a guy there in Wichita(with Cox) they were hoping to have Fox and PBS on by football season in the Topeka market, but was also curious about the Wichita market. I know you cannot go into details, but will Wichita see Fox football over Cox this season do you think?

Originally posted by Crispo
Apparently the OTA signals are 720p native from the 3 major networks and Fox is soon to come onboard. With Cox I am getting 1080i.

Only ABC and soon to be FOX are 720P. NBC, ABC, and CBS are 1080I. Not sure on WB.

I'd like to ask a favor if anyone in Wichita has Cox cable internet and a HDTV box or TV that does QAM. I'd like to know if the local channels are unencrypted so that those boxes could tune those channels.

thanks!

I have cox internet, cable, and ota reciever. Not sure what you are asking. I get the local channels on the cox box but don't get channel 3,12, 24 on HD with cox box only OTA.

Cox modulates their HDTV signals using QAM. Over the air they use 8VSB. I am wanting to see if a TV that I am looking at buying will pickup the local channels in HD over the Cox system without buying a box, as it has a built in 8VSB and QAM tuner.

Your receiver will have to do QAM. Most OTA boxes don't, however some do.

Tim-

There will be talks going on, and they are trying to get things rolling. The goal being in time for NFL. Whether or not everything falls in place in time, I can't make any guarantees.

We want to be on, and it seems like they now want us on. (Now that Fox will be passing 720p)

When it is decided, and we get closer to having a date, I'll pass it on. I don't deal with these things until it gets technical. And no one looks at this information as secret, there are just a lot of things involved with getting it to happen.

It never hurts to call Cox and let your channel wishes be known, especially if you are a Cox power user. Just call their customer service and tell them you want Fox in HD.

Anyone else confirm Cox only spitting out 1080i? Especially on KAKE which is 720p ota? We would of course prefer our 720p stream being 720p on Cox. Crispo - Do you have your output locked to 1080i to match your display?

jon

Originally posted by Jon@KSAS/KSCC

Anyone else confirm Cox only spitting out 1080i? Especially on KAKE which is 720p ota? We would of course prefer our 720p stream being 720p on Cox. Crispo - Do you have your output locked to 1080i to match your display?

jon

I don't know what they are sending, but the box they use can be set to either 720P or 1080I. I have mine set to 720P to match my display.

Forgot that consumer boxes lock the output and scan everything to it. One of our professional receivers switches the output to match the input, or it can be locked down.

From the legal speak I have read on the Cox agreement, sounds like it puts out what we put in. We'll find out more as we get closer.

jon

Originally posted by Jon@KSAS/KSCC
Forgot that consumer boxes lock the output and scan everything to it. One of our professional receivers switches the output to match the input, or it can be locked down.

From the legal speak I have read on the Cox agreement, sounds like it puts out what we put in. We'll find out more as we get closer.

jon

As always, I am trying to read too much into a statement, but it sounds like you all have at least an agreement to put your station on their digital tier?

Tim -

I was passed a small excerpt from a possible agreement for my opinion on something. I don't know where it is in being signed off, or how much time Cox will need to set up their technical side if it is signed off.

Everybody has the same goal (getting Fox HD on Cox), and they are trying to make it happen as soon as possible. Again, when the Cox engineers contact us about working on the fiber link we'll be closer to getting a launch date.

I might post when it is in the works technical wise, but as far as a date it will be available to viewers, Cox should be the contact. And it does a disservice to speculate, like the situation we went through with Fox's HD coverage of the All Star game.

While we are on the subject, would you get us up there?

jon

Originally posted by Jon@KSAS/KSCC
Tim -

I was passed a small excerpt from a possible agreement for my opinion on something. I don't know where it is in being signed off, or how much time Cox will need to set up their technical side if it is signed off.

Everybody has the same goal (getting Fox HD on Cox), and they are trying to make it happen as soon as possible. Again, when the Cox engineers contact us about working on the fiber link we'll be closer to getting a launch date.

I might post when it is in the works technical wise, but as far as a date it will be available to viewers, Cox should be the contact. And it does a disservice to speculate, like the situation we went through with Fox's HD coverage of the All Star game.

While we are on the subject, would you get us up there?

jon

Like I said, I like to read too much into things:D

No, I would not get you up here, but I do occasionally pickup your analog 18 out of Salina. I know a guy by the interstate just south of Manhattan who receives your digital out of Salina. He is lucky.

I just have too much time on my hands, and if you guys sign a deal, that means they(Cox) are serious about trying to get Fox stations before football season, which bodes well for what I was told about wanting to do a deal with KTMJ in Topeka.

If I had my way, Cox would import your UPN station up here if they could. We have no WB or UPN affilates, so it would be nice to have that.

This is exactly why this is the place to go because of people like you who actually try to be helpful. Thanks!

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

Let us know when you send out the first HD signal so we can tune in. Is Sept 12 still the kick-off date?

Sept 12th was last that I have heard. We have to go through a setup session with Fox (as every affiliate does) and after that we will be set.

If I hear, or anything is announced different I'll post it. I will be relying on multiple opinions from this forum to make sure everything is passed on ok, so it's to our advantage for the viewers to know what is going on.

With the splicer equipment, Fox's signal goes through almost untouched by us. What this will benefit, is when they put a DD5.1 feed out, it should pass through, even though we don't have DD5.1 encoding here. Our commercial breaks will be Dolby 2/0.

jon

Here's a recent article posted on the Eagle website:


Posted on Fri, Aug. 13, 2004

Want HD Olympics? Not on Cox

BY BOB CURTRIGHT
The Wichita Eagle


NBC is offering 399 hours of high-definition coverage of the Summer Olympic Games from Athens beginning today.

But Wichitans with HDTV sets can't get it through Cox Communications, even though the company began offering HDTV service this year.

The reason is a financial dispute between Cox and the local NBC affiliate, KSN, Channel 3.

Simply put, Channel 3 wants Cox to pay for NBC's HDTV programs, and Cox has said no.

"We made a substantial investment in high definition, and we want to be compensated for it," Channel 3 general manager Shawn Oswald said.

"The reality of it is that Cox charges for high definition. It's a tier of their service, and one of the more expensive ones. If they make money off it, why shouldn't the people who made the investment?" Oswald said.

Cox spokesman Kristin Peck said negotiations for any compensation must be made at the corporate level between Cox and Channel 3's parent company, Emmis Communications.

"We would love to put NBC HDTV programming in our lineup, but they haven't given us permission," Peck said.

"At this point, we are not going to pay them," she said.

A similar situation exists with KWCH, Channel 12, whose HDTV programs also are not on Cox cable. Joan Barrett, Channel 12 general manager, said Cox and Media General, Channel 12's parent company, are in talks.

"It's my understanding that Media General is seeking a form of compensation, whether it's money or something else," Barrett said.

ABC affiliate KAKE, Channel 10, is the only local network affiliate that allows its HDTV signal to be carried on Cox -- on digital Channel 601. Terry Cole, Channel 10 general manager, declined to comment on the companies' compensation arrangement.

Cox and KAKE are partners in Kansas Now 22 (22 on cable), which is Channel 10's cable news outlet.

Even without cable HDTV, local viewers can see the Olympics in high definition, Oswald said.

KSN broadcasts the high-definition signal over the air, so viewers with an HDTV set can use an HDTV antenna, which costs between $100 and $300, Oswald said.

"We will help anybody who is interested. If they call the station, we will tell them where they can find the equipment and how to find the NBC HDTV Olympic signal," he said.

Other than the box rental how is Cox making $ on the HD tier? At $400-500 retail at least for the current generation HD set top boxes how are they making $, with the investment they have in the STB's their ROI has to be at least a few years out, and by then the STB's are obsolete and they have a big capital investment again. Seems to me that from their end offering HD is merely staying competitive with the satellite providers and not a huge profit center. Although there may be some that have to upgrade to the digital package to recieve HD. I can't believe that there would be an overwhelming number in this boat because most who will shell out for an HD TV watch it enough that they want the many channels that the digital tier has. My .02.

But the whole enchilada of my arguement is that the way I understand things the HD locals channels are not figured into the Neilson ratings so the local networks wouldnt want us to have great access to them lest they get lower ratings. And less advertising $$. Can anybody else confirm that the Neilson ratings do not include the HD OTA signals?

And besides that the locals have to convert to HD no matter who pays for it. So cable customers are being asked to pay for it.
I can see Cox having to shell out some cash to the locals for any costs affliated with hardware that would need to be installed to have their signal carried by Cox, if there is any, I don't know. But that is it!
Personally I have given up on locals via cable and have OTA'd myself in addition to cable but it still gets my goat.

Their (the locals) arguement "does not hold water"

My Cousin Vinny

Ok,
I am going to defend Cox on this one. They don't charge for local channels. Sure you have to have a box(I think), but if you do have the box, you do not have to pay for them. I don't even think you have to have anything above basic service.