I had been getting the KAKE-DT signal really well (I'm at 49th and Oliver), but just tonight I can't get it. Anyone know of any problems? The basketball game looks like poo in SD.

Hello,

I recently got my HDTV setup going. I have had no trouble with any of the local stations, EXCEPT KWCV (WB). I can get video just fine, but there is no audio. So far, I have mostly been attempting to tune in the 10:30PM showing of M*A*S*H, but I've seen the same problem on other shows from KWCV as well (Cheers, I believe).

Has anyone else experienced audio trouble with KWCV? I've looked and can't find anything in my own configuration.

I'm using a pcHDTV 3000 tuner/capture card with MythTV 0.18.1. It is working very nicely for everything else.

Thanks!

I was just going to post my setup info for making KWCV work, and then discovered I have no sound either with my HD3000 and MythTV. However, checking my TV's builtin HD tuner, the channel has sound just fine. Time to verify the channel data in Myth.

Well that didn't go very well. The temporary encoder made our splicer mad, so you may have noticed the last few nights have been a little messy. We put our old encoder back online yesterday, but the splicer was still a little sick.

Both Fox and the splicer manufacturer worked on it, and we believe it is healthy now.

We are watching it closely, and hoping for a calm weekend.

Just wanted to let everybody know we have been working it. But feel free to post or email me if you notice any problems.

jon

While appreciative of Cox for adding new channels, including a new High-Def channel in Universal HD, I'm unimpressed with UHD as the new HD addition.

After reviewing the Universal HD web-site, they don't seem to offer a very good lineup of programming. At least in my view.

There are a lot better options they could have added, that's all I'm thinking. Lots of other HD channels that would have been better.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

moreinc-
Consider yourself lucky. Here in Salina, we have only one HD channel available on Cox (KSAS Fox). And they say they have no plans to add any more due to "bandwidth limitations". Yet such metropolises as Gas and Iola Kansas have a full slate of HD from Cox.
This is really disgusting, since we are on the fringe of being able to receive the Wichita stations OTA up here. Of course, KSAS has an HD translator up here, so all you need is rabbit ears to get it, and that is the one Cox adds to the cable line up. Makes a lot of sense to me.

-Jeff

I also live in Salina, and am very disappointed with Cox and their HD plans. Looks like I will be getting a satellite dish soon!!

Wayne

While appreciative of Cox for adding new channels, including a new High-Def channel in Universal HD, I'm unimpressed with UHD as the new HD addition.

After reviewing the Universal HD web-site, they don't seem to offer a very good lineup of programming. At least in my view.

There are a lot better options they could have added, that's all I'm thinking. Lots of other HD channels that would have been better.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

I agree 100%. UHD is a good choice if you enjoy reruns of Monk, the 2004 Summer Games, and the various reincarnations of Law & Order. I find it ironic that Cox added what is basically the HD rerun channel for the NBC network but still doesn't carry the HD feed of the local NBC affiliate. Even if they have to pay KSN for the feed, it would be money better spent than paying for UHD IMHO. I would love to be able to record Conan in HD. Don't get me wrong, more HD is better but there is better HD than UHD.

It was a long trek, but we finally got our encoder back from the manufacturer and was able to finally switch to the new PIDs dictated by the FCC.

This should not affect viewers, except your receiver might have locked up if it was on while I changed them. A simple reboot of the receiver, rescan, or direct channel input should wake it back up, if you had a problem at all.
This affects KSAS-DT and KAAS-DT.

as always if you have problems, post or email me.
Thanks
jon

Can KPTS-DT be picked up in Wichita? What kind of antenna is required? I get all the other digital channels, but not KPTS. This is not necessarily surprising since it's twice as far away from me (NW Wichita) as the other antennas (according to antennaweb.org).

I live in NW Wichita. I receive all digital channels with exception of KPTS, 8.1, PBS, Hutchinson. I have an antenna in the attic and have added an in-line amplifier. When I first installed the amplifier, I was able to receive KPTS some times. I can nolonger receive KPTS. Here is my setup:

1. I have an Antennacraft MXU59 in the attic.
2. I have installed a GE 10 dB in-line amplifier at the antenna.
3. I run coax cable from the amplifier to the hometheater (from attic through mainfloor to basement).
4. Coax connects to amplifier power injector which is connected to LG HDTV Receiver model LST-3100A.
5. Video and audio outputs from HDTV receiver are fed to a Yamah RX-V750 AV Receiver.
6. AV Receiver video output is fed to Hitachi 51S500.

I successfully receive the floowing stations:
a. KSNW 3.1, NBC, WIchita, 295 deg, 5 miles
b. KAKE 10.1, ABC, Wichita, 299 deg, 5.4 miles
c. KWCH 12.1, CBS, Hutchinson, 316 deg, 28.6 miles
d. KSAS 24.1, FOX, Wichita, 300 deg, 4.9 miles
e. KWCV 33.1, WB, Wichita, 307 deg, 6.5 miles
f. KSCC 36.1, UPN, Hutchinson, 338 deg, 14.6 miles

Although I receive WB, I must change the input mode on the Yamaha receiver to ANALOG to get reasonable audio level from WB without cranking the receiver way up.

I would like to pull in KPTS 8.1, PBS, Hutchinson, 314 deg, 28.8 miles. Assuming I stick with an antenna in the attic or some other indoor antenna, what can I try to increase probability of receiving KPTS? Would a different antenna be better? Should I try a powered pre-amplifier? Should I go with an indoor antenna in the basement? Any thoughts?

Thanks

I'm wondering if there's anything that can be done, short of heroic measures, to pull in KPTS-DT in Wichita. My signal level for all of the other digital stations is strong (80% to 90%), whereas KPTS barely registers. My antenna isn't in an optimum location, but it's pointed correctly and it's a big antenna, connected to a latest generation ATSC reciever (LG Plasma HDTV). I'm guessing that KPTS is still broadcasting at low power?

What a joke! They turn on CBS HD on Cox for the Masters whenever that was -- and then right back off again... What a tease!!

I got an HDTV last summer and waited all throughout last football season for Cox to add CBS..... still waiting ...

Well, here we are again on the brink of the 2005 season -- and STILL no CBS on Cox.

Does anyone have any new relevant information from Cox or CBS on this issue?

I'd really rather not bolt for Satellite or switch to OTA, but watching the Chiefs in HD might just be worth it.

Anyone have any thoughts or new information?

Thanks.

I'm wondering if there's anything that can be done, short of heroic measures, to pull in KPTS-DT in Wichita. My signal level for all of the other digital stations is strong (80% to 90%), whereas KPTS barely registers. My antenna isn't in an optimum location, but it's pointed correctly and it's a big antenna, connected to a latest generation ATSC reciever (LG Plasma HDTV). I'm guessing that KPTS is still broadcasting at low power?

I get 8-1 and 8-2 over here on the southeast side of Wichita. I don't watch those channels too often, but I've never had trouble receiving them.

Dave G.

I also live in NW ICT near 29th and Ridge. I pick up 8-1 and 8-2 fine via attic mounted antenna and Samsung OTA receiver. Big antenna, I'd tell ya what it was but don't wanna go up to attic and look. No signal amps installed either.

I have a Silver Sensor mounted in the garage attic @ 21st N and Woodlawn and receive 8-1 and 8-2 with no problems.

What a joke! They turn on CBS HD on Cox for the Masters whenever that was -- and then right back off again... What a tease!!

I got an HDTV last summer and waited all throughout last football season for Cox to add CBS..... still waiting ...

Well, here we are again on the brink of the 2005 season -- and STILL no CBS on Cox.

Does anyone have any new relevant information from Cox or CBS on this issue?

I'd really rather not bolt for Satellite or switch to OTA, but watching the Chiefs in HD might just be worth it.

Anyone have any thoughts or new information?

Thanks.

FYI, I get CBS HD national feeds via satellite so I check often to see if it's our local station not broadcasting HD. Truth is that CBS itself for the most part doesn't do sports in HD. I've yet to see any golf in HD this year.
:(

I love golf in HD, but I'm really wanting to watch as much CHIEFS FOOTBALL in HD this season as possible. I know they're on Monday and Sunday night about 4 times, but I'd like to catch any games they do carry on CBS HD, too.

Oh, well... I may just have to add an HD tuner/antenna for over the air during football season. Go Chiefs!

I love golf in HD, but I'm really wanting to watch as much CHIEFS FOOTBALL in HD this season as possible. I know they're on Monday and Sunday night about 4 times, but I'd like to catch any games they do carry on CBS HD, too.

Oh, well... I may just have to add an HD tuner/antenna for over the air during football season. Go Chiefs!

With less than a month to kick-off, it's time to get the tuner/antenna up and running. I feel my investment was worth it to me just for the NFL coverage, let alone the NCAA basketball, NCAA football, Masters Golf, NASCAR on NBC, Winter Olympics on NBC next year, and remember next year NBC will have the NFL. Along with Fox, you'll find switching between two NFL games showing in HD at the same time is a true HD experience. IMHO, Cox is in no hurry to add CBSHD or NBCHD to their HD Tier and it could some time before they do.

Screw waiting for Cox. Just Do It.

IMHO, Cox is in no hurry to add CBSHD or NBCHD to their HD Tier and it could some time before they do.

Screw waiting for Cox. Just Do It.

Perhaps KWCH and KSN are asking too much for their HD service? Why should Cox pay now when in a few years they'll get it for free? After KSN and KWCH loose their analog channel they'll be begging to get their digital signal on cable/sat because they won't have any viewers. Oh wait, broadcast is loosing viewers right and left to cable/sat providers already! It won't be long before the "big 4" become the little guys.

It sounds like we are screwed on NBC probably for awhile since Emmis is apparently trying to unload the local to another buyer. I seriously doubt that any negoitiations are going on with them as a result. Purely uninformed speculation on my part though.

For those of you cable subscribers like myself, go ahead and get an OTA receiver and you'll be like me-alot more relaxed about the situation.

Perhaps KWCH and KSN are asking too much for their HD service? Why should Cox pay now when in a few years they'll get it for free? After KSN and KWCH loose their analog channel they'll be begging to get their digital signal on cable/sat because they won't have any viewers. Oh wait, broadcast is loosing viewers right and left to cable/sat providers already! It won't be long before the "big 4" become the little guys.

My "Screw Cox" comment really was aimed at whatever the reason may be for the channels not being carried via local cable, not specifically at Cox. I respectfully amend my final comment to "Screw Cox/KWCH/KSN/Whoever is denying my HD via cable."

Why should Cox be motivated to provide the basic HDTV service of having the local broadcast stations?

Try because it is in the interest of their customers and all the people buying HDTV's. Obviously, they don't give a damn about their customers, as essentially cable is a monopoly, despite the fringe market of satellite. They know how many people want Chief's games in HDTV on cable - and could give a fig. So screw Cox? You bet.

I'll tell you why I think they care a great deal. They badly want all local HD channels because their customers want it and the customers can get all of them elsewhere, i.e. via OTA or satellite. The name of the game is market share and they want all of it so they can sell more advertising. If I was a major buyer of advertising I'd sure hold KSN and KWCH's feet to the fire for it.
Their issue with the 2 locals that are not in the lineup are costs. The issue is should we have to pay to receive what we can get for free OTA. KWCH and KSN want Cox to pay them for their HD signal, (and also make subchannels available to them probably).

The local networks arguement is that Cox makes money off their HD tier and the locals should share in that. My arguement from Econ 101 is Cox isn't making a killing if anything on HD. The HD and HD DVR boxes wholesale for $250-350 clams. If they are renting them out at $9.95 a month then they do not have any ROI (return on investment) for 2+ years, but as we all have witnessed, the life-span/technology curve is looking like about 1 year on the set top boxes. There are already replacement set top boxes out and available to replace what we were given a year ago. So there goes their ROI. I do not think we should begrudge Cox making a profit. Businesses that are not profitable cannot serve their customers efficiently and cannot offer cutting edge services.
In this particular case I feel like Cox has my best interest at heart. Am I bummed that I can't get all networks in HD... Heck yeah! Would I pay a small amount to get all 3-4 major networks... maybe, but moaning and groaning all the way. For now I will watch what cox has to offer, but if I just have to see what's on 3 or 12 in HD I hit the input switch on the remote and turn on the OTA tuner. No big deal.
I just don't get why many people rag on the cable provider so much. This problem lies squarely with the corporate ownership of the local stations, who would have us pay to receive their HD signal via cable. The screwdriver needs to be pointed in more than one direction.

My .04

From: http://www.kcchiefs.com and http://www.hdsportsguide.com/nfl.php

Kansas City Chiefs Schedule
Preseason
Result Date Opponent Time Network
08/12/05 at Minnesota Vikings 7:00 PM CBS
08/20/05 Arizona Cardinals 7:30 PM CBS
08/27/05 Seattle Seahawks 7:30 PM CBS
09/02/05 at St. Louis Rams 7:00 PM CBS
Regular Season
Result Date Opponent Time Network
09/11/05 New York Jets 12:00 PM CBS
09/18/05 at Oakland Raiders 7:30 PM ESPN+ <<<< ESPNHD 720P>>>>
09/26/05 at Denver Broncos 8:00 PM ABC+ <<<< ABC 720P>>>>>>>
10/02/05 Philadelphia Eagles 12:00 PM FOX
10/09/05 Bye
10/16/05 Washington Redskins 12:00 PM FOX
10/23/05 at Miami Dolphins 12:00 PM CBS
10/30/05 at San Diego Chargers 3:05 PM CBS
11/06/05 Oakland Raiders 12:00 PM CBS
11/13/05 at Buffalo Bills 12:00 PM CBS
11/20/05 at Houston Texans 7:30 PM ESPN+ <<<<ESPNHD 720P>>>>>
11/27/05 New England Patriots 12:00 PM CBS
12/04/05 Denver Broncos 3:15 PM CBS+
12/11/05 at Dallas Cowboys 3:15 PM CBS+
12/17/05 at New York Giants 4:00 PM CBS+
12/24/05 San Diego Chargers 12:00 PM CBS
01/01/06 Cincinnati Bengals 12:00 PM CBS


All times Central. Times listed as time of kickoff.
(*) Tentative; (+) National-TV Game

So we have 3 games out of 16 regular season in HD. If you only have OTA or
just basic cable then you will only get the ABC game.

Statix - the 2 Fox games have a good chance of being in HD also, although I have not seen a schedule.

Anyone having trouble with audio from KSAS-DT ? I'm helping a viewer troubleshoot, and wanted to make sure this isn't on our side of things.
The viewer has a new brand of OTA receiver, all of my test equipment and receivers say it's good.

Thanks in advance
jon

Has anyone else noticed that there is no audio on KAKE-DT, Channel 21, tonight August 11. I wonder what's up. I rescanned the channel and it didn't help. Thanks! Dale

I just recently got an HDTV and upgraded to cox digital cable with the HD DVR. I'm excited about the few primetime chiefs games in HD. I'm pretty upset that Cox doesn't have cbs hd. I'm out in Garden City and I don't think an OTA antenna can pick up the nearest cbs hd broadcast. :(

On Aug 11th, I had the same problem with OTA KAKE, picture okay but no audio. Via Cox there was no picture and no audio on 601.

I noticed that INHD has been showing the NFL network HD feed of the chiefs preseason games. Does this mean they might do the same with the CBS feed during the regular season since Cox doesn't have CBS HD?

Is KAAS 18.1 in Salina at full power? I was just curious. I'm over by Randolph, KS and can get the Analog just fine, but wanted to know about the digital for my new OTA tuner.

Fuzzyphi -- are you saying the Chiefs preseason games have been on INHD in High-Def? And I missed it? I didn't need to hear that! Does their normal INHD schedule just go out the window and if I flip it to that channel it will be simulcasting the Chiefs game in HD?

moreinc

Had something new happen tonight. Was watching "Living with the Dead" on channel 12.1 when it started freezing up for a few seconds at a time. About 8:40 it froze solid, like someone had hit the 'Pause' button. It stayed that way for about 5 minutes, before going back to freezing, playing, freezing...

I tried calling KWCH, but just got an answering machine.

Hello folks,

NW wichita (21st and Tyler), and I'm supposed to get my first HD tv delivered on Thursday. I've read a bunch of this thread, and haven't figured out the concensus about the minimum antenna needed to receive OTA signals.

Towards the beginning of the thread someone jokingly said that a bowtie should do, due to geography around here. Was that really a joke? From what I can tell, alot of the folks on here have larger ChannelMasters etc. positioned in their attics, and say that they're getting great reception.

From other looking around, I've got the impression I should stay away from the Terk amped antennas since any $50 antenna is at least as good as Terks $150 amped set top antenna. Unfortunately, getting wires into my attic would be quite tricky due to floor plans...so I'm looking for a set top antenna, without blowing a bunch of money unneccesarily.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Chiefs in HD on INHD

The football that I have seen on INHD the last couple of weeks has been 4:3 standard def programming. It was advertised to be HD but I have not witnessed it. After seeing football in HD, if its not, I aint watching. Gotta have principle's!

The Kansas City Chiefs Pre-Season games so far have been produced by Metro Sports (A Time Warner Cable Company) and Metro Sports does not own a HD Production Truck. Metro Sports also produces all of the RSTN Kansas City Royals Telecasts.

http://www.kcmetrosports.com/info/production.asp

Hello folks,

NW wichita (21st and Tyler), and I'm supposed to get my first HD tv delivered on Thursday. I've read a bunch of this thread, and haven't figured out the concensus about the minimum antenna needed to receive OTA signals.

Towards the beginning of the thread someone jokingly said that a bowtie should do, due to geography around here. Was that really a joke? From what I can tell, alot of the folks on here have larger ChannelMasters etc. positioned in their attics, and say that they're getting great reception.

From other looking around, I've got the impression I should stay away from the Terk amped antennas since any $50 antenna is at least as good as Terks $150 amped set top antenna. Unfortunately, getting wires into my attic would be quite tricky due to floor plans...so I'm looking for a set top antenna, without blowing a bunch of money unneccesarily.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I picked up a Zenith Silver Sensor two years ago and have never had any problems with reception here in NE Wichita. A friend on mine also uses one around Kellogg & Maize with no problems. As long as the antenna is above ground you should get good reception. IMHO you can't beat it for $20 @ amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006FXR9/ref=pd_ts_c_th_1/102-4675870-6310553?v=glance&s=electronics&n=1060538

dlnester-
The Salina transmitter is a 1kW which puts out an ERP of 65kW, and while that transmitter is at full power and in full working order, it is not the highest power possible for a digital signal. (I need to differentiate between a transmitter running at 50% which can be turned up and our transmitter which is at 100%, but is not the biggest transmitter possible)
But with that in mind, our digital does cover about the same footprint as our analog. I would normally think that Randolph would have weak analog reception because you are on the fringe, but you said you get the analog fine, so you have a good chance of getting the digital. If you can't get the digital now, you might try again once the leaves fall, it might make a big enough difference in your area.
Height of your antenna will probably make a big difference, because you have those humps in the ground up there, what do you call those? hills? :)
I'm interested in what luck you have getting the signal.

pfunky-
I second Vern's Silver Sensor recommendation, we have one for testing, and just setting it on top of my TV in the 13th and Meridian area, I get great reception of all local DT's. You might have to find the sweet spot between the Colwich and Hutch transmitters where you get good signal on both. The SS is a little bit directional.

jon

Thanks for the replies guys. Since the TV is inbound, and I don't have a Silver Sensor yet, I'll give the three uber-cheap antennas I have a try and report my findings back here for future readers. Right now, I've got a pair of rabbit ears (not likely to work, since they're designed for VHF), a loop antenna (litterally a piece of metal bent to the shape of a circle), and a bowtie that uses flat cable and clips onto the airials of rabbit ears. I'm guessing these will be the lowest possible quality antennas out there...so it'll be fun to see what they can achieve.

vblyth - Thanks for the info, I'll pickup one of the Silver Sensors soon...from my searching, it appears that those are pretty well liked by everyone that owns them.

Jon@KSAS/KSCC - Thanks for your reply too...good to see a station engineer keeping an eye on this thread...that's a great service to your viewers.

The equipment is on order to upgrade KSCC-DT, UPNKansas to HD.
UPN is offering several series in HD this year plus several movies. We are working on getting everything ready, and will try to beat the season premieres.

More free HD programming choices never hurts. My pick is "Everybody Hates Chris" the new Chris Rock series. Imagine the Wonder Years in the hood, it's hilarious. UPN has a clip on their website.

I'll post when we start interrupting the signal for tests, and when we go live with the HD.

jon

The equipment is on order to upgrade KSCC-DT, UPNKansas to HD.
UPN is offering several series in HD this year plus several movies. We are working on getting everything ready, and will try to beat the season premieres.


This is great news Jon, and thanks for the info on the power of the Salina FOX transmitter.

Could you tell us the power ratings for the Wichta FOX and UPN and whether they are running at full power? I can pick up UPN here in Salina occasionlly, but would like to be able to get it better. I just wonder if getting my antenna up higher would make much of a difference.

Jeff

The equipment is on order to upgrade KSCC-DT, UPNKansas to HD.

jon


Jon: Does this planned upgrade of KSCC-DT just affecting the over-the-air signal only or are you also planning to provide a HD feed to Cox Cable in Wichita like you do with the KSAS HD feed on Channel 604. I assume that they would probably put you on Channel 606 on HD cable, that is if they haven't run out of room for any more HD channels. ;)

Well, I can't lock onto KAAS-DT but I can get about a 50-60% signal. My Voom box has to maintain an 80% signal for it to lock on and add the channel. I'll just live with the Analog right now. I don't have an HDTV yet, just use the Voom box to "downconvert" to my standard def. tv.

I used to live in Wichita and KAAS/KSAS are the best choice for FOX out here... as KTMJ is pretty much useless where I am. I just wish their was a way to add KSAS to my Dish Network system (I already have a SuperDISH 105)

jeffdb27-
The ERP's are also in my profile, but who looks at those?
KSAS-DT 26 Wichita (350kW ERP) , KAAS-DT 17 (65kW), KSCC-DT 35 (1 MW ERP)
The UPN tower is also 10 miles north of the Fox tower. All transmitters are currently running full power, I just checked the readings. Also we don't change the power or shut down the transmitters for anything but maintenance (but that includes unplanned maintenance...)
The transmitters are at the highest power we can go by license, due to close spacing issues, basically if we crank up any higher we can interfere with other channels in nearby areas, such as Tulsa or Kansas City. My boss corrected me a bit about Salina, the transmitter with the gain of the antenna is covering our analog pattern, so that is as high as we can go up there.
Picking up UPN in Salina is great!

Schick81-
There is no formal announcement about UPN on Cox, but they know our timeline, and the only thing that was holding them back before was our lack of HD programming. So I'm sure both Cox and our station will try to make sure it happens. As far as what channel, I personally don't know, and that's something our marketing people figure out (because technically it doesn't matter) with Cox. Also, if they put UPNKansas HD on their tier, I'm sure it's safe to say that it will be on anywhere in KS (our DMA) that Cox offers HD.

dlnester-
If it's cloudy up there now, you might try again when it clears off. One of my receivers will stay locked on if I locked in at a higher signal strength, even if the signal gets weaker. You just have to catch it at a high point in my experimentation.

Before this becomes a novel, anyone out there with a Toshiba TV with built in HD receiver have any problems getting 24-1? We've got a viewer who is on his second set, so I want to see if this is a bigger problem with Toshiba, or just a bad batch.

thanks
jon

>Before this becomes a novel, anyone out there with a Toshiba TV with built in HD receiver have any problems getting 24-1? We've got a viewer who is on his second set, so I want to see if this is a bigger problem with Toshiba, or just a bad batch.

Mine comes tomorrow :) ...and with the dinky antennas I'm going to play with, I might not be able to give a definitive answer, but I'll check as soon as I can.

Jon,
Why is it that all the Wichita stations drop out of HD mode to put weather information on the screen? I guess I see this a lot more on KSNW, KWCH, and KAKE than on your stations. During the baseball game on Saturday, I noticed FOX Kansas had a weather map displayed on the analog station, but not on the digital. I'm all for less crap on the screen, but that's another story.

Is this dropping out of HD method something you think we can expect to see for some time to come? Is this due to a lack of the proper equipment to overlay this stuff on the digital channel while in HD?

Thanks for all your interesting information,
Jeff

Alright, TV came and this is what I've learned.

A super simple single bowtie isn't really sufficient to keep a lock on anything even from the NW corner of wichita. So, I attached a Philips Silver Sensor and have been successful in getting these channels:

NBC - KSNW (3-1)
ABC - KAKE (10-1)
CBS - KWCH (12-1 & 12-2)
WB - ???? (33-1)
UPN - KSCC (36.1)

For Fox (KSAS) and PBS (KPTS), I seem to get a signal, but it's blank. Perhaps they're having problems right now?? I don't know.

Anyway, I'm thrilled. At one point, I caught CSI in HD, and my jaw almost hit the floor. It looked amazing. Anyone have any hints on my FOX and PBS problems though?

Jon, so to answer your question...I'm having problems with 24-1 also...and my Toshiba is a model 57h94. I don't know if it's related to the problem you said a customer was experiencing though.

pfunky-
There has to be something with our PSIP that the new Toshiba tuner doesn't like. I've already experimented with pulling the splicer out of the equation. I have calls in to our manufacturers, and will try to wrap this up as quickly as possible. I might email you directly to check on progress if that's ok. The old Toshiba receivers did not have problems, it's only when the receivers have a software upgrade that they act like the new receivers and have this problem.

jeffdb27-
You can answer any question in broadcasting with one word, money. You're dead on, it takes HD keyers to overlay graphics on to a HD image. But that's not all, the HD keyers require an HD graphic (and most stations such as us still run SD graphics that would have to be upconverted) So when you add it up, it's over $25k per graphic overlay, and using us as an example, we have a minimum of 3 graphics to overlay. Fox's situation is even more complicated because we have the splicer which won't allow us to overlay network (HD or not) without splicing in, and splicing is very expensive. To make a long story short, it's expensive and when you consider that broadcasters are already paying double the electric bill to keep both an analog and digital transmitter on at the same time, now possibly up til 2009, money can be scarce. (TX power bills range from $3k - $6k a month per TX, but this doesn't count maintenance parts).
I know, you guys really feel sorry for us now... Just tring to enlighten you on our side of things when you have a tight budget and management has community service concerns of the weather information...
It's a never ending argument, in the public and at the stations between screen clutter and public service.

If no one figured it out last night, outages were due to the Westar fire in Colwich.

HD Football tonight on Fox

jon

Well, it doesnt happen too often, so I thought I'd post. As I sit here now at 8:40pm on Saturday in Salina, I am picking up all of the Wichita digital stations. Since my DISH Network 811 reciever has a signal strength meter, I'll list:


KSNW: 84%
KPTS: 68%
KAKE: 89%
KWCH: 95%
KSAS: 74%
KWCV: 72%
KSCC: 62%

60% is about the minimum to lock on with this reciever, yet I'm not getting many dropouts. I wish it was like this all the time.
Must be the weather,
Jeff

Jon - Whatever change you made worked. I'm now successfully getting FOX and UPN quite well. Thanks for working on it!

Jeffdb27 - Here's my readings from Wichita (21st and Tyler) at 11:am using a Philips Silver Sensor connected to a Toshiba 57H94 with built-in tuner:


KSNW: 72%-84%
KPTS: 46%-54%
KAKE: 78%-86%
KWCH: 78%-88%
KSAS: 88%-90%
KWCV: 76%
KSCC: 76%-78%


KPTS is the only one I can't lock onto.

BTW: FOX Football, and Numbers were amazing. I'm barely paying attention to the shows, I'm so busy watching how beautiful they look ;)

Grr...strange problems this evening.

Suddenly, I've lost the ability to receive Channels 3-1 and 10-1. What's really strange is when I check each of these channels using the physical-virtual mapping via the strength meters on my set.

Physical channel 45 is mapping to virtual channel 36-1 (I think that's supposed to be 3-1!), and physical channel 21 is telling me to use virtual channel 33-1 (I think that's supposed to be 10-1).

I don't pretend to understand this completly...but I think 3 and 10 are sending out incorrect PSIP data. Rescanning the channels doesn't help either. It's like the UHF physical channel is providing the receiver with erroneous mapping tables, which doesn't work since there are already other stations using those virtual channels.

Jon, I know these aren't your channels, but am I understanding how this works (or doesn't in the above case)?

pfunky-
I think it was simply your receiver getting confused with the signals during that nasty storm we had Sunday evening. If it's still messed up, you might try unplugging your receiver from power completely for a minute then going back through the setup. I'm receiving everything properly here. It's a strange coincidence, but my boss' DirecTV local to local channels were doing the same kind of thing at the same time, but those have nothing to do with the DTV OTA stations.

We upgraded the software on our PSIP generator and that seemed to fix the new Toshiba receivers and also a new receiver Radio Shack is carrying for around $200 called an Accurian? If you know someone on the fence for OTA DTV, or if you need OTA for the Chiefs... You might check out the Derby Radio Shack, they have one on display, but they order in the units for sale. (they sell as soon as they get them)

So if you are lurking out there and still have a reception problem with 24-1, please notify me in some way. Otherwise, I think this issue is closed.

jon

Everyone rejoice! KWCH HD is now on channel 612.

Be happy about getting channel 12 up there on cable. Cox still has no plans of adding any HD to the Salina line up. :(
The following message was sent to me yesterday. This is the second message I have received from them on this topic, this one even more vague than the first.

subject: Product Sales Question
detail: High definition service
FirstName: Jeff
LastName: ~
City: Salina
Comments: When is Salina, Kansas going to get a real HD offering? I have heard in the past that there are no plans due to bandwidth limitations. This is not an acceptable answer. When will these bandwidth limitations be resolved? Small towns like Iola and Gas Kansas both have many HD channels, yet Salina, one of the bigger markets in Kansas, has only ONE channel. And that channel can easily be picked up with rabbit ears! Thank you.
Dear Mr. ~:
Thank you for your inquiry. Cox is committed to providing the best customer service possible.

We are currently and always looking for ways to add HD stations to the Cox line-up. Unfortunately we do not have an estimated time of when more channels will be added in your area. When more channels to become available we will be notifying our customers.

We hope that we have been able to provide you with the information you requested. If we have not, or if we can be of any additional service to you, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Thank you.

Cox Communications Online Customer Care Team
I doubt it will do any good, but I think it's time to write to the city commisioners and tell them it's time to get a new cable company.

Jeff

This means Chiefs will be in HD most of the time, right?

Only if CBS produces the games in HD, and only if KWCH passes the HD signal through.

Hmmmmm, I wonder, now that KSN is the only local without HD representation on Cox, will that put pressure on them(KSNW) to get on the stick. I doubt it, and...could care less. In fact, at this point I think Cox should get payment from them to carry KSNW.
I also noticed that 675 is KWCH WX. Which is good since KAKE's channel 22, doesnt have their radar on as much as I'd like.

Now that we have 4,10 and 12, we have the majors. Let the minor league (3) flap in the wind

Now if we can just get KSAS and KWCH to get rid of the grey bars during 4:3 programming... Jon?

Now if we can just get KSAS and KWCH to get rid of the grey bars during 4:3 programming... Jon?
Are we going to debate this again?
I prefer the gray bars, (but they should be just a tinge darker, especially at night) :p

Are we going to debate this again?
I prefer the gray bars, (but they should be just a tinge darker, especially at night) :p

Sure, why not? It doesn't save anyone's tv from burn in because there is still a black stripe next to the video as well. That is the #1 reason given for the use of gray bars.

Gray bar - Back stripe - VIDEO - Black stripe - Gray bar. Either go all black or go all gray. How difficult can it be. The networks do it. Frankly, it makes for a sloppy presentation from the local affiliates.

Gray bar - Back stripe - VIDEO - Black stripe - Gray bar. Either go all black or go all gray. How difficult can it be. The networks do it. Frankly, it makes for a sloppy presentation from the local affiliates.
I agree, when there is a gray bar then a black stripe then the picture it is annoying. Not annoying to the point of being unwatchable, but still annoying.

Given the choices of all grey or all black, I just like the gray. Not sure why. Maybe becuase it is closer to the color of my television.

All in all, I don't really care. I'd much rather be watching some true HD!

Jeff

IMHO klemsaba has a good point and I personally think the grey bars suck. I watch analog if it's not HD.

Kudos to KWCH and Cox for finally getting KWCHHD on digital cable in time for the kickoff.

After MUCH searching on google for other Toshiba users who have experienced the same problem that I have, I finally found a reference to someone who "rebooted" their TV at the request of Toshiba. Apparently, simplying unplugging the Toshiba, waiting, then replugging it doesn't do a good enough job to fix the problems with 3 & 10 that I was experiencing.

The page that I came across mentioned a reboot proceedure "buried" in the menus. The only buried thing I found was the "reset to defaults" menu item, which I decieded to try. After the full reset, I found that IT WORKED! All local channels were viewable, and the next day suddenly my TVGuide data started working too (another side problem I was having).

Anyway, I'm posting this for anyone else who may have a similar problem. I'm now watching HD shows on any of the locals. I still can't grab PBS, but I think the signal is just too weak to grab with a settop antenna.

BTW, after calling Toshiba, they agreed to send me the latest version of firmware for my TV too. I've read on these forums that one of the fixes in the latest firmware is the ability for the TV to ignore corrupt PSIP data better. We'll see....

Is KAKE not showing the football game tonight? It is not showing on the guide.

Called - schedule is wrong - game is on.

So I'm out here in Garden City. Cox just added KWCH HD to the lineup last week. But when the chiefs game came on today they were showing PBS or something like that. It was "this old house." I checked periodically throughout the first half and it had the same thing. Eventually I gave up and just watched standard cable. Well, for some reason I checked again with 2 minutes left in the game and it was on the high def channel. I don't know what that was all about, but I hope they have it worked out in 6 weeks for the next CBS chiefs game.

Chiefs CBS HD on Cox...

I was out of town and didn't see the game until late last night, but I recorded the High-Def cbs feed from cox. I quickly noticed that there was no play-by-play. The only "audio" I heard was pure stadium noise. Did anyone else notice this and/or know why there was no standard cbs audio play-by-play?

Thanks for your comments.

The play-by-play feed for the Chiefs game didn't start until 10 to 15 minutes into the game. It was fine after that.

Scot

And being without it (play by play) for around half a quarter was interesting if not enjoyable. Gosh we could start an entire thread on this.

Now what is the deal with ABC or KAKE switching every half hour during MNF for a few seconds to 4:3, is it just to get their station identification info up? That is a pain and very annoying.

In addition, is everybody noticing the numerous audio dropouts? Is this only on MNF and ABC or all HD programming and all channels?

Chiefs CBS HD on Cox...

I was out of town and didn't see the game until late last night, but I recorded the High-Def cbs feed from cox. I quickly noticed that there was no play-by-play. The only "audio" I heard was pure stadium noise. Did anyone else notice this and/or know why there was no standard cbs audio play-by-play?

Thanks for your comments.


I called KWCH twice Sunday to complain about the HD audio. I told them that the problem was they were sending out Dolby Digital 2.0 audio instead of the needed Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. With the way CBS encodes the Dolby E feed that KWCH receives, if they leave the encoder set to 2.0 with a 5.1 signal being fed, the center channel (C), the two rear channels (Ls and Rs) and the subwoofer channel (LFE) are being ignored. Since the announcers are only fed into the center channel, that's why they weren't heard when they were sending out 2.0 audio. Once they switched to 5.1 output, all the channels came back and you could hear the announcers again.

I've seen this (or should I say heard this) problem before with the various CSI incarnations. If they don't switch to 5.1 output for these shows, then you won't hear any dialogue from the characters on screen, as all the dialogue comes from the center channel.

They should be watching the on screen indication that indicates whether a show is in 5.1 or not, but it may have never occurred to KWCH that the game Sunday was in 5.1, as I never did see a specific audio type supered on screen Sunday during the pregame part of their coverage. They just had the Sony HD logo on screen. It would help I guess if someone at the station was actually monitoring the HD output as diligently as they do the analog side.

They should be watching the on screen indication that indicates whether a show is in 5.1 or not

I would hope that a network affiliate has a better source for whether a program is in DD 5.1 or not than just watching the screen before the program.

Jeff

The equipment is on order to upgrade KSCC-DT, UPNKansas to HD.
UPN is offering several series in HD this year plus several movies. We are working on getting everything ready, and will try to beat the season premieres.

More free HD programming choices never hurts. My pick is "Everybody Hates Chris" the new Chris Rock series. Imagine the Wonder Years in the hood, it's hilarious. UPN has a clip on their website.

I'll post when we start interrupting the signal for tests, and when we go live with the HD.

jon
I just got my first HDTV set up this weekend, and I noticed that UPN was being broadcast at 480i last night. Any word on the upgrade, or did I just happen to tune in to a non-HD show?

I got everything hooked up and working except the audio, then realized my problem. Our sales rep sold us an upconverter that doesn't pass audio.

So now I have to wait to get a new one. I tried to come up with workarounds, and there aren't any. It really frustrated me, because UPN is HD for 2 hours tonight.

So hopefully we can make it happen for next week.

jon

Jon at KSAS/KSCC:

Was there a specific reason KSAS-DT was not in high definition last night for The O.C. and Renunion? Was no one in Master Control monitoring the off-air signal from KSAS-DT or was this a Fox network splicer switchover failure?

It sure would be nice to have a night time telephone number where someone could be reached at KSAS/KSCC so that any HD problems could be resolved when the show is actually airing, instead of always having to report problems only when the station is "open."

Jon,
Is there something to the West of Manhattan that would cause a false reading on a Voom box that is used for OTA only? I do a signal test on 17, get something that bounces up to 80 then back to 0. I have a tree that has no leaves right next to the antenna in the direction of what I believe should be your tower. I really want to get your station before the playoffs begin for baseball, and was trying, so I could watch the football game today.

Any thoughts??

I am also having issues picking up KSAS OTA signal in the 29th and Ridge area in ICT. Now that KSAS-HD is on cable, I usually do not use OTA, but yesterday I couldn't pick it up but intermittently.

Also, on another subject, I am having lots of intermittant audio drops and video drops via both of my HD cable boxes on all channels. Is anyone else suffering these?

ef

I was trying to set my Cox DVR before I left the house this morning but channel 612 is coming up as an "UNRECORDABLE CHANNEL". I was trying to set up CSI Miami this evening, anybody else having this problem?

dresf : I'm having audio drops on my HD recorded content when watching it back, usually 2-3 times during the show. Pops off then right back on its been like since I started recording shows this season. I have not however had any video drops that I noticed.

dresf -
Have you rescanned since I changed the PIDs a couple of months ago? That might be part of the problem. KSAS-DT in Wichita is at full power and at 29th and Ridge the tower lights should be visible from your house. I know Tim is on the fringe up in Manhattan, and is trying several things, he promises to report back if he is able to pick up the signal.

I also had dropouts on Cox HD last night, even hosed up a couple of recordings.
Love it when something is not my fault...

Schick81-
The operator must have missed the autoswitch failure. I have no better excuse. I should clarify, that they are doing several things at once, not just sitting there. As much as we want them to have nothing else going on, commercials show up late and have to be entered, and syndicated shows come down off of satellite, etc.

So what am I doing to minimize the failures :

1. Building a completely different autoswitching circuit that will have a backup. Should have it done by the end of tomorrow.

2. Putting in a blinking light with buzzer that will go off when the analog is in network but the splicer is in local.

3. If anyone sends an email to controlmaster@clearchannel.com with URGENT PROBLEM in the subject line an audible alarm will go off, and the operator will check the email when they get an opportunity, ideally immediately.
They will not reply to the message, but look into the problem, fix it, or contact us to fix it. All msgs with that subject line will also be forwarded to me, so I can make sure everything was resolved, then I'll try to reply or post on this forum. Just remember not everything is a quick fix. But it should alert an operator to a situation, if they have not yet noticed it.

This is the best solution I could come up with, the operator is swamped already and handles several phone calls from cable headends and us. The other stations that can take calls have news depts with a large staff.

Now - UPN :

While I finally got the sales rep to overnight the upconverter card today, we are having failures with our 36-1 KSCC-DT transmitter. Our analog transmitter lost both of it's tubes 2 weeks ago, and we are planning to install them tomorrow. The analog is on a borrowed tube running at 50% power (the factory didn't have any tubes left when ours failed). Our transmitter engineer is working on the digital 36-1 transmitter right now, but so far it's not looking good. I'll post updates, if it is still off.

I'll shut up now
jon

Thanks Jon, I'll try that. I should of tried it before, I have read your other posts suggesting that.

Re: Cox audio freezes

I am seeing it happen on more than just recorded content, I see it live to. The audio is most noticable but I see a really brief video pause as well for a split second.

Edison, perhaps this is related to your problem trying to record;

Last night, I noticed that I couldn't watch CSI on CBS using the QAM channel (114-5). Channel 12 SD worked fine...and goofing around I entered 12-1 and voila, the video was there instead. This was on Cable...not my OTA tuner! This must have *just* changed yesterday.

I'm curious how this effects people using Digital boxes to view cable...did the channel indeed change for them too?

UPNKansas is now up in 1080i.

We received the new upconverter card this morning, along with a part for the transmitter.

Let me know if anyone has any problems. Since it's a format change it should not require a rescan to see the change.

I may or may not switch to UPN-HD net tonight depending on our signal. If it's good of course I'll take it. You might see some debugging this week though, just to be honest.

Also, UPN only offers Dolby 2/0 not 5.1. In addition to the following schedule some movies are offered in HD.

UPN PRIMETME HDTV SERIES DAY AND TIME PERIOD (all times CT)
· ONE ON ONE Monday (7:00-7:30 PM)
· ALL OF US Monday (7:30-8:00 PM)
· GIRLFRIENDS Monday (8:00-8:30 PM)
· HALF & HALF Monday (8:30-9:00 PM)
· SEX, LOVE AND SECRETS Tuesday (8:00-9:00 PM)
· VERONICA MARS Wednesday (8:00-9:00 PM)
· EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS Thursday (7:00-7:30 PM)
· EVE Thursday (7:30-8:00 PM)
· CUTS Thursday (8:00-8:30 PM)
· LOVE INC. Thursday (8:30-9:00 PM)

Switched over to 36-1 tonight at 8 p.m. and noticed that UPKansas was not broadcasting in 1080i tonight. Will try again tomorrow night between 7 p.m. and 9 p.m.

Dale

They had it in 1080i briefly, but once it was switched over I lost my audio. I switched over to the analog version for a few minutes, then when I turned it back to the digital broadcast it was back to the 4:3 picture.

Noticed it was on 1080i tonight between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. Looked good. But after 8 p.m., it was back to 4:3.

Everything was fine on UPN until 8pm Thursday when the HD sat receiver fell off frequency for some reason, and wouldn't lock back in. It's been locked on all day, so I'll be watching it closely. Otherwise UPN is all set for HD. We had several bugs to fight through, that didn't show up during testing, but only on air.

Looks like early November for UPNKansas HD on the Cox HD tier. Cox is working on it.

Heads up for Sunday's NFL on Fox, Sun transits will cause rolling outages on satellites, we can bounce around it with our analog, but the digital will have to go SD for 20 minutes centered around 1:00pm approx. So don't get frustrated, the HD will come back, once the outage has passed.

jon

Jon, any knowledge whether UPNKansas on Cox will be encrypted or unencrypted (QAM)? Is that decision based on part of the agreement with Cox? I've just been curious why KPTS,KWCH,KAKE and KSAS have been unencrypted, but KSNW has been encrypted. I figured it has something to do with the contract or something...

Jon, any knowledge whether UPNKansas on Cox will be encrypted or unencrypted (QAM)? Is that decision based on part of the agreement with Cox? I've just been curious why KPTS,KWCH,KAKE and KSAS have been unencrypted, but KSNW has been encrypted. I figured it has something to do with the contract or something...

I believe there is a federal law that says local channels must be unencrypted on cable. I also understand that not all cable companies abide by this law.

KSNW isn't on COX there is it? Maybe it is on there for testing in preparation for adding it. They do have new owners now, don't they? Good riddance Emmis.

Jon (or anyone), do you know if KSAS/KAAS HD is encrypted by Cox here in Salina? I have been thinking of getting a QAM tuner, but don't know if it would work here. COX finally has announced that Salina will be getting up to 11 HD channels in the upcoming months. Still short of the 14 to 16 they list for a lot towns they serve in Kansas, but it's a start, I guess.

Jeff

Jeffdb27, according to:

http://www.cox.com/kansas/digitalcable/cityinfo.asp?city=Wichita

I think KSNW is encrypted...I still haven't tried a cablecard (frustrated that they charge you $30 to install what is essentially a PCMCIA card), but I've not found it on the unencrypted QAM channels. Here's what I've found on the unencrypted QAM in Wichita (COX):

82-1 through 82-49: Music channels
83-7: Some Spanish channel
90-12: PPV preview
93-2: PPV sports preview
114-1: PBS Kids
114-2: Pentagon channel
114-3: KPTS-DT
114-4: NASA TV
114-5: KWCH-DT
114-6: KWCH-DT (weather)
115-1: KAKE-DT
115-2: KSAS-DT

Recently, some of these disappeared (as mentioned in a thread above). I've been able to relocate KWCH-DT now on QAM 12-1, but I haven't had a chance to search for the rest yet (OTA usually keeps me satisfied).

Why should Cox be motivated to provide the basic HDTV service of having the local broadcast stations?

Try because it is in the interest of their customers and all the people buying HDTV's. Obviously, they don't give a damn about their customers, as essentially cable is a monopoly, despite the fringe market of satellite. They know how many people want Chief's games in HDTV on cable - and could give a fig. So screw Cox? You bet.

I gave up on Cox years ago..best move I ever made. Go with Directv and OTA antenna for local HD (Stunning) you won't be sorry.

I gave up on Cox years ago..best move I ever made. Go with Directv and OTA antenna for local HD (Stunning) you won't be sorry.
In some places, it is a little difficult to receive all (or any) of the networks OTA.

I hate COX more than most, (see some of my other posts) but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Jeff

So is COX carrying KSNW in HD? It'd be pretty sweet to see the ND vs USC game this weekend in HiDef.

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

Please tell me that KSAS-HD is carrying the Cards/Astros game tonight (Wednesday). I've got to watch my birds in HD.

Jon@KSAS/KSCC,

Please tell me that KSAS-HD is carrying the Cards/Astros game tonight (Wednesday). I've got to watch my birds in HD.

I would bet just about anything you would care to wager that they will show the Cards game. Since they had them about 75% of the time during the regular season.

Enough of the friggin Cards! :p LOL

Jeff

yes we have the Cardinals tonight.

yes we have the Cardinals tonight.
Excellent, more of the friggin' Cards in HD!

As I promised Jon, I am reporting back since I just received my new antenna tonight. I purchased an Winegard PR8800 specifically for channels 17, KAAS out of Salina, and 28, KSNT out of Topeka.

I got it put together and hooked a small cable from it to the Voom box, put the signal meter on 17, moved it around and got KAAS. It was really that easy. I have enjoyed watching the game tonight in superb quality, even on my 27 in. SDTV. So there you go, Jon, do I win a prize for being the first in Manhattan to have reported receiving your signal??

Also, I was getting KWCH too.

BTW, I never got KSNT good enough for a solid picture to come in.

Tim -

How about :
- WATCHING baseball in HD (not just thinking it)
- Upconverted trailer trash
- And some NFL in HD to balance it out

Actually we do get calls from that area, and now knowing that it can be done helps. Along with people who lurk on this forum from that area that might have been waiting for your results to buy an antenna or receiver to go with their new HDTV.

Thanks for your efforts, now sit back and enjoy MLB!

jon

: antenna installer suggestion? :

Can anybody here suggest a fair priced antenna installer..

It seem that my ten year+ old external antenna just does not pick up a good enough signal to work my cheapie 'US DIGITAL' HD receiver.

I have always had troubles receiving even local VHF channels due to local electronic noises.

Even my DirecTV reception of non-HD KWCH and KPTS has had noise and ghosts in the images for the last three weeks...

--David


{I have not used local 'COX' cable since '89 due to even at that time they could not provide a clean local reception}

As an update, I installed the Pre-amp, and my percent on KAAS went from 82-83, to over 90%. I am very happy with the results, and watching football today, and the game right now, is great. Plus, my wife is happy because Yes, Dear is on at 10 on weeknights...

One thing, though, is it says the logical channels is 24, which it is in Wichita, but the channel for KAAS is 18. No biggie.

Tim-

It will be 24-1 anywhere in KS when we switch everything to digital. 24-1 doesn't mean a thing except marketing anymore, it has no tie to frequency.

Since Salina is a 'repeater' and has the same programming as the flagship, we can use the flagship's 24-1, according to our lawyers. Which is good for you, because otherwise you would still be watching 480i, because of logistics with the splicer, and the cost of a box to strip off the 24-1 and replace it with 18-1.

DavidEC-
I don't know about prices, but the 2 best known in Wichita are Hephner's and Don's. Either one should be able to fix your signal problems. I have no idea of your setup, but you should probably have the wiring that gets the signal from the antenna to your TV checked, a loose shield connection or other things can cause a lot of problems.

jon

Tim-
....
DavidEC-
I don't know about prices, but the 2 best known in Wichita are Hephner's and Don's. Either one should be able to fix your signal problems. I have no idea of your setup, but you should probably have the wiring that gets the signal from the antenna to your TV checked, a loose shield connection or other things can cause a lot of problems.

jon


Jon - Thanks for the reply.. I will give Don's and Hephner's a call again.. but I feel that $60+ just to come out and look and then they would want to charge again when they return to 'repair' if needed is a bit high... David

I've heard the Chiefs Game won't be on Friday night in Wichita. I'm actually in Garden City, but I sure hope they work this out and get it on. I heard it won't be on sunday ticket either.

The Chiefs game will only be broadcast on KCTV-5 Kansas City and WIBW-TV 13 Topeka. This is due to the 75 mile rule imposed by the NFL on CBS. The game can only be shown in the Primary (KC) and secondary (Topeka) Markets.

I've heard it both ways about Sunday Ticket.....

UPNKansas HD is now on Cox cable channel 606.

UPN only offers Dolby 2/0 not 5.1. In addition to the following schedule some movies (during prime time) are offered in HD.

UPN PRIMETME HDTV SERIES DAY AND TIME PERIOD (all times CT)
· ONE ON ONE Monday (7:00-7:30 PM)
· ALL OF US Monday (7:30-8:00 PM)
· GIRLFRIENDS Monday (8:00-8:30 PM)
· HALF & HALF Monday (8:30-9:00 PM)
· SEX, LOVE AND SECRETS Tuesday (8:00-9:00 PM)
· VERONICA MARS Wednesday (8:00-9:00 PM)
· EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS Thursday (7:00-7:30 PM)
· EVE Thursday (7:30-8:00 PM)
· CUTS Thursday (8:00-8:30 PM)
· LOVE INC. Thursday (8:30-9:00 PM)

Does anyone know who to write, call or petition to get Channel 33 DT to carry the Warner Brothers network shows in HDTV?

Thanks,

Dale

Does anyone know who to write, call or petition to get Channel 33 DT to carry the Warner Brothers network shows in HDTV?

Thanks,

Dale


Dale: As far as I know, KWCV-DT Channel 33 (Cox Cable Channel 5) does not have the infrastructure necessary to broadcast a HDTV signal. Even though they were the first station in the Wichita/Hutchinson area to broadcast a digital signal, they've always broadcast in 480 standard definition. Maybe things have changed in the last three years, but until they've purchased the necessary HDTV equipment (satellite receivers, encoders, distribution amps, etc.), I don't foresee them offering a true 1080 interlaced high definition WB network feed anytime soon!!!

I understand they don't have the equipment at this time. I just think its time that we, the consumers, let them know that it is time to get that equipment.

I understand they don't have the equipment at this time. I just think its time that we, the consumers, let them know that it is time to get that equipment.

I have asked the question of WB in HD for Wichita a couple of times. As always, it is a matter of money. Here is the latest reponse last week:


----- Original Message -----
From: David Jackson
To: Vern
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: WB in HD

Yes, a year later and I have nothing new to tell you. The only thing availiable to us at this time is from the network, so management can't justify the expense for HD. It is still something we look at seriously as the cost of equipment goes down. We are talking about doing a direct feed from the network at our transmitter. If that happens people watching our over the air signal can get WB in HD, but those on cable and Direct TV would not.

It will happen at some point, just not sure when.

Thanks for checking back.

David Jackson
Master Control Supervisor
Kansas' WB. KWCV (TV-33) (DTV-31)
200 W. Douglas 7th Floor
Wichita, KS 67212
(316) 219-5616 (office)
(316) 303-0160 (fax)
www.wbkansas.com

Does anybody here have a full listing of the 'VHF/UHF' stations with in broadcast reception of Wichita, KS area?

I live near the 'Landmark Starlite Theater' and at time I can pick up off air Tulsa / Topeka stations better than I can Wichita stations...

Also can anybody direct me to a 'HOW TO TEST' "RG" cable for signal loss/breaks? [When one end is out side and the other inside the home..]

--David

Start here: http://www.juggling.org/bin/un.cgi/map-find

Find you latitude and longitude, the go here: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

Put in your L & L, and you also have to put in your Magnetic Declination, which I think for our area is 4 or -4.

You can have it search for any mileage away from your location, but if you do 150, it should give you Topeka and Tulsa.

Remember that atmosphere will also affect reception, as at one point, I was receiving KC stations here in Manhattan, but couldn't get the NBC out of Topeka.

Look here: http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html
for info on the Tropo ducting forecast, it changes from day to day, but is fairly accurate.


Sorry, not sure how to test your cable.

36-1 the UPN digital will be off until we can get some parts shipped in for the transmitter.

I'll post when it's back up.

jon

Jon,
As the tornados rolled through today, I was wondering about weather warnings on KAAS. I did not see any interuptions, nor did I see any overlays about warning. Do you all not do that? Or did I just miss it? Maybe it was not bad enough for you to put stuff up?

tim

PS as the storms rolled through, I was getting a bit of interuptions, but mostly just sound blips, it did pretty well, I think

Start here: http://www.juggling.org/bin/un.cgi/map-find

Find you latitude and longitude, the go here: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

Put in your L & L, and you also have to put in your Magnetic Declination, which I think for our area is 4 or -4.

You can have it search for any mileage away from your location,...

Sorry, not sure how to test your cable.


Thanks I learned alot from the sites and they were fun to review..

The trouble is most of the cable tests that I have read 'assume' that you can hold both ends of the cable in your hand(s) and do not really take into account of testing an already installed run for loss/breaks.

--David

Start here: http://www.juggling.org/bin/un.cgi/map-find Find you latitude and longitude, the go here: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp .

'Oh' by the way one of the reasons that I am asking is that I do not have "CABLE" but use DirecTV and Off Air for my signal sources..

Most all of my Video devices are connected to UHF Modulators to create an internal home "CABLE LIKE" system..

Which I have been using for years but when the stations went DTV I was forced to move UHF channels around and with the added UHF-LP stations in the Wichita area I may now have to replace my current modulators to get some that will work in the upper channel range like UHF 60, where I had been using lower band channels between 14->22 since I need to keep two channels between broadcast KSAS 24... I use to have five channels to work with now I am down to only two...

--David

Forgot to post yesterday, UPN 36-1 was back up yesterday at 1pm.

jon

The transmitter was up on Tuesday, then on Thursday we lost our digital microwave that gets the signal to the tower. So we are temporarily back at 480i converted at the tower. We have different parts coming in and out, and hope to have it back to normal sometime next week.

jon

It's been awhile since anyone posted...

Anyone got any news about any new HD channels coming to Cox?

I wonder when NBC will finally be added?

Some questions about Cox' DVR...

Does the dual tuner functionality work now? Can it record two channels at once?

Does the DVI output work now? Does it have HDMI or just DVI?

The hard drive is 120GB?

Is it for rent only, or can it be purchased? If available for purchase, must it be purchased from Cox, or can it be purchased anywhere?

Does it include a cable modem?

[Yeah, I'll get around to calling Cox sometime, I'm just being lazy...]

Dual tuner works-you can record two channels at once
the latest one that I have has hdmi out-reportedly still a few bugs but not as bad as 1st generation dvi, which was horrible. FWIW I can't see any PQ difference betwixt the hdmi out and component out.
I think 120GB is correct
It does have firewire out that functions for those of you who are firewire savvy.
I do not think you can purchase them anymore.
I purchased a HD box from them when they first came out (no dvr) and when it fails I am out. That's the beauty of renting, it breaks...They replace
Does not include a cable modem

Due to a HD encoder failure UPN 606 is SD and currently has a lip sync problem, which our delay could not swallow enough to catch up. We're working to get it back to normal asap.

jon

Thanks dresf.

I'm interested in HDMI primarily for simplicity of hookup, and just one thin wire to have to hide.

Firewire...can the hard drive capacity be expanded via an external firewire drive. I'm fuzzy on what else Firewire would be used for in this context.

Given how fast these devices become "obsolete," I have no problem renting one, and getting a new one every couple of years. With HD, 120 GB isn't all that much, is it? How many hours of HD is that? 24?

The specs for the original Motorola HD-PVR offered by Cox said it included a cable modem.

At this time the firewire funtionality (I think) is only out to a HDVCR , if there are copy protection flags activated. There may be plans to allow for external hard drive.
I am aware of the spec's for the cable modem, as far as I know it is not activated.
I don't think its even 24 hours with 120GB.
There is an exhaustive thread or two on the HD Recorders Section. Towards the end of this thread there is some discussion on firewire:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=414680
If you dig real hard in that thread there are some worthwhile posts by a top techhie from Cox headquarters in Atlanta regarding future plans and possible upgrades as well as reasons why some features are just not do-able.

Thanks again dresf, and you are right, I am asking my questions in the wrong forum. Thanks for the link to the Cox Motorola 6412 thread, all 71 pages of it.

Is anyone else having problems recieving abchd through cox? It might just be me, but before I spend 3 hrs on hold to talk to cox I thought I'd ask here.

Nevermind, just ignore that. It was actually a problem with a new surge protector.

Jon,
The last couple times I tuned to KSCC-DT (UPN) when the programming was supposed to be HD, all I got was SD. I haven't seen anything posted for some time.... is KSCC back to SD? If so, when will we have HD again?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff-
We are still waiting on our microwave transmitters to come back from service at the factory. So during this time we are digitizing the analog feed on KSCC-DT over the air at the transmitter site. We are back to pushing HD on Cox 606 from the studio. 606's HD was interrupted because of an encoder failure, but it's back to normal now. We should have received the microwave by now, so it should be any day now.

And yes we have hot redundant microwave transmitters, but both the main and backup equipment failed at the same time.

jon

Channel 606 is not listed in the TitanTV (www.titantv.com) guide.

Does Cox carry WB in high def? I.e. Will I be able to get Smallville in HD? What channel?

Any news on when Cox will pick up the remaining local digital channels?

Edit: Boo hiss, no WB in HD on Cox, so no Smallville, and no antenna input on the DVR, so no recording it OTA. Come on Cox, get deals done for the remaining locals, this is getting rediculous.

I betcha a brand new shiny buffalo nickel that KSN will be up and running by summer. I hope it is in time for the winter olympics (not holding my breath). Why, pray tell, do I think that? Here's why: KSN has a new owner effective at the end of the month. And they are inheriting the only major network that does not have its digital channel on cable. Emmis didn't care, it knew it was unloading the station anyway for quite some time, I suspect. The new owner, although a rather small company by current TV ownership standards will want to foster goodwill in the community and bring their stagnant ratings up (hopefully). This flip side of new ownership is that they may be under capitalized after the sale, which would not be good. Or worse yet, the new owners, SJL broadcast group and Blackstone may be just buying then selling. Their reputation is to buy, trim staffs and increase automation, increase profits and sell. Gosh who knows, but I'm trying to be optimistic to get the last major network up. I frankly do not know the logistics or the costs of making a digital signal "cable ready", my suspicion is that it doesn't take much. I'd love some correction or some education here! As far as the others go, who knows. Supply and demand rules the day. I also suspect that priority will be given channels that provide a high percentage of their content in HD and priority given to customer requests. So... continue to write letters and make phone calls to the stations and to your cable provider. And for those of you who are B & C'ing but who aren't writing and calling, get your phone book out and your pen, paper and a 39 cent stamp out. Please!

Just to summarize...

NOT in HD on Cox: NBC - NO WINTER OLYMPICS IN HD :mad:
WB - No Smallville :(
HDNet HDNet Movies
I called Cox and expressed my extreme disatisfaction with no Winter Olympics in HD. The Cox representative (Teresa, a "supervisor") has promised to find out what the status is on NBC in particular, but also WB and additional HD channels like HD-Net, and call me back "within 48 hours." I can install an antenna if it's going to be awhile, although I won't be able to record anything since the Cox DVR does not have an antenna input.

If anyone can feed me a name of a VP, I'll happily call and chew on someone else. :D

Just hooked up my LG LST 3510A last night to my bottom end HDTV. Did the autoscan and immediately found 7 channels. All I'm using till my Silver Sensor arrives is an old 5" UHF loop laying on the basement floor.

NBC on COX HD...

The Olympics would be cool in HD -- but they just HAVE TO have NBC in HD by next football season when NBC starts carrying NFL games again!

Teresa from Cox did call me back as promised, but didn't have anything new to report.

If nothing else, I will install some sort of small antenna in my front window, which faces North, and I should be able to pick up KSN.

No ESPNU on Cox either. That's not an HD channel, but has the WSU basketball game on Sunday.

From my understanding, Cox can't offer WB HD because the local WB station (KWCV) doesn't broadcast in HD yet. If you want to know the status of WB HD, you'd be better off contacting the station directly (http://www.wbkansas.com/contact).

In addition to haysdb's wish list of channels, I would also like to see ESPN2 HD and ESPNU. Instead of these highly popular channels they instead added MHD (Channel 625) last Monday (Jan. 16). :mad:

I think by law, everyone must be broadcasting in digital now. I could also swear that Smallville, which is on WB, is in HD.

This is a rhetorical question, but I wonder what percentage of digital broadcast channels across the country are NOT being carried on cable?

-David

The local WB is broadcasting in digital...just not in HD.

Here's a post from earlier in this thread:
Yes, a year later and I have nothing new to tell you. The only thing availiable to us at this time is from the network, so management can't justify the expense for HD. It is still something we look at seriously as the cost of equipment goes down. We are talking about doing a direct feed from the network at our transmitter. If that happens people watching our over the air signal can get WB in HD, but those on cable and Direct TV would not.

It will happen at some point, just not sure when.

Thanks for checking back.

David Jackson
Master Control Supervisor
Kansas' WB. KWCV (TV-33) (DTV-31)
200 W. Douglas 7th Floor
Wichita, KS 67212
(316) 219-5616 (office)
(316) 303-0160 (fax)
www.wbkansas.com

I think by law, everyone must be broadcasting in digital now. I could also swear that Smallville, which is on WB, is in HD.

This is a rhetorical question, but I wonder what percentage of digital broadcast channels across the country are NOT being carried on cable?

-David

There's a difference between broadcasting in digital and broadcasting in digital HD. WB isn't required to broadcast in HD at all.

Understood. But it does surprise me that a station would broadcast a digital signal but not pass through HD programming. I'd think the big expense would be the 'digital' side of it, with 'HD' being only a small incremental cost. Am I wrong?

Hiya folks,

Been reading these forums for quite a while and thought I'd finally get around to asking a question.

I've had a MyHD HDTV tuner card for my computer for a few years now and I thought I'd take the plunge into the Cox HDTV DVR to see how that was.

To be honest, I was sorely disappointed. I still can't believe they don't have KSN yet. The thing that really bugged me was that the lower 74 or so "regular" channels are still an analog signal. I really like the Discovery HD channel a lot, but I'm seriously considering going to satellite just so I can get an all digital signal for ALL the channels I want to see.

Is this the only way to go for an all digital signal for all channels? Or am I missing something here?

Understood. But it does surprise me that a station would broadcast a digital signal but not pass through HD programming. I'd think the big expense would be the 'digital' side of it, with 'HD' being only a small incremental cost. Am I wrong?

I don't know. I wouldn't think a 'pass thru' signal would be that big of deal. Creating original HD programming is though (which they have no use for right now).

...thought I'd take the plunge into the Cox HDTV DVR to see how that was.

To be honest, I was sorely disappointed. I still can't believe they don't have KSN yet. The thing that really bugged me was that the lower 74 or so "regular" channels are still an analog signal. I really like the Discovery HD channel a lot, but I'm seriously considering going to satellite just so I can get an all digital signal for ALL the channels I want to see.

Is this the only way to go for an all digital signal for all channels? Or am I missing something here? With satellite, you will need an antenna to pick up ANY local channels. The up side of that is that you will get them all in HD, without any compression. DirecTV will eventually get around to offering our locals, but not for some time. They recently launched two new satellites, but those will provide local channels for just the top 24 (?) markets.
I don't know that DirecTV's "digital" channels are anything more than digitized analog, although I could be wrong.
DirecTV is downconverting 1080i HD content from 1920x horizontal to 1280x according to some posts I have read on this forum. I definitely see compression artifacts on DirecTV HD channels that I don't see from the local broadcast channels.
I'm with you though. If I end up having to put up an antenna to receive KSN (to watch the Olympics in HD), switching to satellite is a rather small step, and I believe the Dish and DirecTV DVR's will record the OTA channels, which the cable DVR will not. Cox is on a short leash.

FYI, according to Mark Schubin (http://www.digitaltelevision.com/mondaymemo/mondaymemo.htm), as of last September, 681 of the 768 "high power" DTT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_terrestrial_television) stations nationwide are carried on cable (link (http://www.ncta.com/Docs/PageContent.cfm?pageID=103) to his source). That puts Cox a bit behind the curve, but not really by THAT much I guess, depending on how you count.

The reason I say that is that as of Nov 5, 2005, KSN (ABC, ch 3) was still operating on "temporary authority (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/files/dtvstas.html)" and not yet licensed by the FCC. In other words, they aren't included in that '768' number.

And while I'm here, here is a link to the FCC's FAQ on DTV (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/policy/dtv/)

I'm with you though. If I end up having to put up an antenna to receive KSN (to watch the Olympics in HD), switching to satellite is a rather small step, and I believe the Dish and DirecTV DVR's will record the OTA channels, which the cable DVR will not. Cox is on a short leash.

I put an antenna in my attic over a year ago and receive great OTA signal strength. I'm not seeing a good reason to pay out money to Cox for something that I still need to fire up my computer to watch a digital signal from NBC and WB.

The only thing that has kept me from going straight to DirecTV is that they still require a dedicated phone line for some of their programming. I switched over to a cell phone as my only telephone a long time ago. I've read on some other forums that it's possible to use a Vonage setup for that now. Hmm, it may be time to see what's on the shelf at Best Buy.

I think by law, everyone must be broadcasting in digital now. I could also swear that Smallville, which is on WB, is in HD.
-David

Congress continually pushes back the date that all stations must broadcast in digital. They recently moved it from Dec 31, 2006 to sometime in 2009.

There are plenty of stations that are still broadcasting only on analog. At least a couple in your area even... PAX-5 (KCTU) and TBN-59 .

Oh, and yes, Smallville and Everwood are HD on WB.

Jeff

Feb 17, 2009 is the analog cutoff date - the last day of analog broadcasts. On Feb 18, everyone without a digital tuner must get one. I believe something on the order of $1.5 Billion dollars has been earmarked by congress to subsidize the purchase of STB's when analog broadcasts are turned off. As noted, this date has repeatedly been pushed back. However, I think this latest date has some teeth in it:By the time of the 2009 switch, the government will have auctioned the remaining spectrum to companies interested in deploying wireless technologies. The proceeds are estimated at about $10 billion by the Congressional Budget Office. The auction is supposed to begin no later than Jan. 7, 2008.I believe the date where stations must transmit in digital has long past (May 1, 2003 is what Google searches keep turning up), although it is true that there are exceptions, although I'm pretty certain that these are small non-commerical stations recieving some sort of exemption. I am trying to find specifics.

Lagging far behind in this transition are the rural public television stations, which depend on viewer donations and public funds to buy the expensive digital equipment. A significant number of stations have not completed the transition, and many are rural stations that have no funding to proceed. The deadline for initiating digital broadcasting was May 2003, and all waivers of that date have expired. These stations are in violation of their FCC licenses.Link (http://12.46.245.173/pls/portal30/CATALOG.PROGRAM_TEXT_RPT.SHOW?p_arg_names=prog_nbr&p_arg_values=10.861)

There appears to be a federal grant program (Public Television Station Digital Transition Grant Program) available to provide money to these small non-commercial stations to enable them to make the conversion.

Anyone in Salina have COX cable and a PC Card or TV with a QAM tuner?
I am curious to know if the HD channel (currently only Fox) is available in the clear.

I am thinking of buying one of the HD capture cards that is QAM capable, and just wondered if anyone else here has tried this before I invest the funds.

Rumor has it that COX will finally be adding more HD channels here. I'm always looking for more HD!

Thanks,
Jeff

From CNN... http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news/companies/cbs_warner/index.htm

"Warner Brothers and CBS Corp. announced plans Tuesday for the creation of a new broadcast television network, called CW, that would replace the WB and UPN networks in the fall of this year."

From CNN... http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news/companies/cbs_warner/index.htm

"Warner Brothers and CBS Corp. announced plans Tuesday for the creation of a new broadcast television network, called CW, that would replace the WB and UPN networks in the fall of this year."

With all the mergers, etc., it's hard to follow who owns who.
I can see CBS and WB doing something together, but how does UPN fit in?
UPN used to be owned by Paramount. Who owns Paramount? The article linked to never really says.

Jeff

This seems like a good thing to me. WB and UPN were both too small to make much of an impact. Combined, maybe they can become a legitimate network.

Just to summarize...

NOT in HD on Cox: NBC - NO WINTER OLYMPICS IN HD :mad:
WB - No Smallville :(
HDNet HDNet Movies
I called Cox and expressed my extreme disatisfaction with no Winter Olympics in HD. The Cox representative (Teresa, a "supervisor") has promised to find out what the status is on NBC in particular, but also WB and additional HD channels like HD-Net, and call me back "within 48 hours." I can install an antenna if it's going to be awhile, although I won't be able to record anything since the Cox DVR does not have an antenna input.

If anyone can feed me a name of a VP, I'll happily call and chew on someone else. :D


Why mess with cox when OTA NBC AND WB work fine in Wichita?
One question I do have is about the Today show. It's "supposedly" broadcast in HD yet our local NBC doesn't show it. All other NBC HD programing is in HD....OTA.

With satellite, you will need an antenna to pick up ANY local channels. The up side of that is that you will get them all in HD, without any compression. DirecTV will eventually get around to offering our locals, but not for some time. They recently launched two new satellites, but those will provide local channels for just the top 24 (?) markets.
I don't know that DirecTV's "digital" channels are anything more than digitized analog, although I could be wrong.
DirecTV is downconverting 1080i HD content from 1920x horizontal to 1280x according to some posts I have read on this forum. I definitely see compression artifacts on DirecTV HD channels that I don't see from the local broadcast channels.
I'm with you though. If I end up having to put up an antenna to receive KSN (to watch the Olympics in HD), switching to satellite is a rather small step, and I believe the Dish and DirecTV DVR's will record the OTA channels, which the cable DVR will not. Cox is on a short leash.


I have DirectTv and the HD package. I also have waivers for some national feeds. I have done direct comparisons between DirecTV broadcasts and local OTA on CBS and FOX. (Yes, I know...fox....)
There is NO dicernable video difference on a 57 in HD set. The audio however, is more "robust" OTA.

Why mess with cox when OTA NBC AND WB work fine in Wichita?Because my HD-DVR does not have an antenna input and therefore I cannot record anything OTA. If nothing changes at Cox in two months (i.e. if there are no additional HD channels), I will consider installing a permanent antenna and switching to DirecTV. I am assuming the DirecTV DVR's can record OTA?

Because my HD-DVR does not have an antenna input and therefore I cannot record anything OTA. If nothing changes at Cox in two months (i.e. if there are no additional HD channels), I will consider installing a permanent antenna and switching to DirecTV. I am assuming the DirecTV DVR's can record OTA?

I have an HD DirecTivo HR 10-250 which integrates and records OTA HD seemlessly...two OTA HD tunners actually. DirecTV had a new non Tivo HD DVR that I "believe" records OTA and you can get up to five of them for free with a two year agreement.
Also, I have an UHF only antenna in the attic (about 2ft x3ft) that gets excellent reception on all channels but PBS at Harry and Greenwich.

I have DirectTv and the HD package. I also have waivers for some national feeds. I have done direct comparisons between DirecTV broadcasts and local OTA on CBS and FOX. (Yes, I know...fox....)
There is NO dicernable video difference on a 57 in HD set.DirecTV is downconverting 1080i from 1920x1080 to 1280x1080, but more importantly they are reducing the bit rate even further with additional compression, resulting in compression artifacts such as macroblocking.

How visible this will be is obviously dependent on a number of factors, including the amount of motion, viewing distance, the resolution of your TV, and so on. It was more than obvious to me on my brother's humongous 1080p 80" Mitsubishi LCoS.

For more details, search AVS for "HDLite" or "HD-Lite".

I do not know if Cox is doing this sort of thing, but I do not believe they are. Yet.

KSCC-DT OTA is back to HD.

For more info on LPTV becoming DTV stations, try this article :
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/news/2006.01.25-n_will.shtml

Is anyone having problems with channel 36.1 sound? I have good HD picture but no sound. Standard Over-the-Air antenna and receiver. All other channels are working fine.

Thanks
--Ben

Ben -

Have you tried rescanning the channels? Due to our earlier microwave problems, we went from 1080i to 480i without extended PSIP then back to 1080i with extended PSIP. Sometimes that will confuse a receiver. Some receivers even require being unplugged from the wall for a bit, then plugging back in and rescanning.

If anyone else is having the same problem, please post or email me. We now have 5 different brands of receivers here, and they are all receiving audio fine.
Please include your brand of receiver, to see if there are certain brands with a problem, that gives me more to work with, especially when our equipment is working.

We also took a couple of calls from people with the same problem, but after suggesting a rescan we haven't heard back. (which doesn't necessarily mean it's fixed, but we hope it does).

Thanks
jon

Hi Jon,

Any inside info on how the WB/UPN merger affects us locally?

More specifically, will the new "CW" network run on the UPN frequency (36.1) or will it be running on 33.1 (or a new frequency altogether)?

Either way, I'm really hoping the new channel will be in HD at launch and available on Cox's HD lineup.

WillieC-

If you find out let me know ;)

Know one knows, as our GM (and WB33's GM) stated in the Eagle last week. It doesn't look like either station would go away, one would just become an independent. And since network is only 2 out of 24 hours in a day on UPN (although CW is offering more with a kids block daily and on Sat) it's not too big of a change. The loss would be the national publicity, and HD content for now for the independent station.

We learned about the big announcement with everyone else on CNN.

The decision should be announced soon, because programming for the fall is usually already planned out by now.

jon

Jon,
I tried re-scanning and that did not work. Then I unplugged the box from the power for 10 minutes, then re-scan. That didn't work either. It didn't seem to "forget" any settings even when I unplugged it.

Still good picture with no sound (sometimes with staccatto sound).

It is a Samsung SIR-T451 box, if that helps.

Thanks
--Ben

FYI, I came across an interesting looking "small" (12"x19") antenna: DB2 from Antennas Direct (http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_Indoor_antenna.html). It's an outdoor antenna, but they say it's also their most popular INDOOR antenna. Intereresting.

A good and cheap (~$25) indoor antenna is the Zenith/Philips Silver Sensor, model ZHDTV1/ZHDTV1Z.

For a powered indoor antenna, there is the Winegard SharpShooter (http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/Winegard_SharpShooterTM_Backgrounder.pdf). (Note: Link goes to a .pdf file)

Comparing some commercially available antennas (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/GlossaryG.html#indoor)

I guess I'll try the Silver Sensor since it's the cheapest good indoor antenna available.

Edit: Actually, there do appear to be some other decent indoor antennas, including one or more from Radio Shack.

I think I found a problem that could have affected some receivers and not others.

So please try rescanning again Ben, and anyone else who had problems.

thanks
jon

Jon,
Whatever you found and fixed, did the trick.

Thanks
--Ben

We had another failure with our microwave that the factory is going to have to repair. So in the mean time we are unfortunately back to 480i SD. Just can't win.

This only affects OTA. Cox 606 will continue as 1080i.

jon

-- Super Bowl ABC HD momentary audio "hiccups" ...

It seems that ABC HD has an HD audio problem. Am I the only one who noticed "numerous" audio "hiccups" during the super bowl? It was very annoying to me and my guests.

Is there a logical reason for this?

moreinc

Yes, I have the same problem too, but not just the super bowl. All ABC material has it, when in HD.

I wonder if this problem is isolated to those of us with a dvr?

I switched over to the OTA feed and it was okay, until about the 3rd quarter when I lost signal entirely and had to go back to cable.

I've noticed this problem for quite some time.

Quick question for Wichita from the Topeka thread: Does KAKE show Good Morning America in HD?

Thanks.

Yes, I have the same problem too, but not just the super bowl. All ABC material has it, when in HD.

I wonder if this problem is isolated to those of us with a dvr?

I switched over to the OTA feed and it was okay, until about the 3rd quarter when I lost signal entirely and had to go back to cable.

I've noticed this problem for quite some time.

I saw/heard no glitches during the super bowl. We were tuning the local OTA ABC channel with a set top antenna (Silver Sensor clone).

Dave G.

Heard on the news tonight that Cox will begin carrying KSN's HD feed on Wednesday, so the Olympics WILL be available in high definition to cable customers.

Way to go Cox and KSN, for making this happen.

('bout damn time...)

Ironically, I'm still waiting for my high definiton TV. :(

to quote a phrase off a song...i'm in heaven...,(think "the green mile")
you are right-it is about time!
i still can't believe it!

to quote a phrase off a song...i'm in heaven...,(think "the green mile")
you are right-it is about time!
i still can't believe it!

Hopefully since KSNW is owned by the same company as KSNT, we can get NBC's HD up here in NE Kansas as well...that would be wonderful.

I'm extremely jealous of all of you, by the way :-)

hi eryone.. local cat from wichita just wanted to say wats up..

just noticed today is first day of NBC HD listed on cox's & ksn's websites.. fixin to go home @ lunch to see for myself.

no advertised support for DD5.1 tho.. kinda weak if u ask me..

Just wanted to let everyone know that Salina now has ABC,CBS,NBC, and FOX in HD on Cox cable!! We have waited a long time for this.

-- Super Bowl ABC HD momentary audio "hiccups" ...

It seems that ABC HD has an HD audio problem. Am I the only one who noticed "numerous" audio "hiccups" during the super bowl? It was very annoying to me and my guests.

Is there a logical reason for this?

moreinc

Yes there is a bug with the cox dvr and certain HD channels. 601 and 612 have the audio problem. If you use the instant rewind button, you'll hear what you miss. Cox and Motorola are working on a fix, but no ETA yet. Changing boxes won't help either, so no need to call for a TC and have a tech change your box out. If you have just a regular HD box from Cox, you are ok. Also local commercials inserted by Cox on 601,603,612 and 620 will tile and audio skip. No ETA on this fix either, but who watches comercials anyway?

The aduio problems with the Super Bowl in HD was a nationwide problem from ABC itself.

Just wanted to let everyone know that Salina now has ABC,CBS,NBC, and FOX in HD on Cox cable!! We have waited a long time for this.

Still extremely weak if you ask me.
Where is ESPN HD, HBO HD, Showtime HD, Universal HD, etc?

Small towns like Gas, KS and Iola, KS served by Cox have had these for ages.

Jeff

Does anybody else in Wichita notice that CBS 5.1 audio in primetime (maybe other times, too ?) typically has dialog set at very low levels compared to the rest of the audio. I’m constantly riding the volume to hear what’s being said and then getting blown away by music or other non-dialog sounds. Is this just me, or is it problem with our local, or is it a problem with Cox? To me it’s only CBS, most of the time the other HD channels seem to be mixed just fine as are DVDs I play on my system. Anybody else feel this way?

Does anybody else in Wichita notice that CBS 5.1 audio in primetime (maybe other times, too ?) typically has dialog set at very low levels compared to the rest of the audio. I’m constantly riding the volume to hear what’s being said and then getting blown away by music or other non-dialog sounds. Is this just me, or is it problem with our local, or is it a problem with Cox? To me it’s only CBS, most of the time the other HD channels seem to be mixed just fine as are DVDs I play on my system. Anybody else feel this way?



I have noticed problems with sound with CBS during national programing. First noticed it with NFL on the Noon games. You would hear everything but the anouncers. The music was there and the sound effects, but no talking. Then about 5 mins into the games, the whole sound would come "on".

Then I just noticed it with CSI last Thursday night. Same problem, so had to watch in analog.

Also local commercials inserted by Cox on 601,603,612 and 620 will tile and audio skip. No ETA on this fix either, but who watches comercials anyway?

Cox does not insert commercials on 601, 603, or 612. Those are the responsibility of KAKE, KSN, and KWCH.

I have noticed problems with sound with CBS during national programing. First noticed it with NFL on the Noon games. You would hear everything but the anouncers. The music was there and the sound effects, but no talking. Then about 5 mins into the games, the whole sound would come "on".

Then I just noticed it with CSI last Thursday night. Same problem, so had to watch in analog.

This audio problem is due to KWCH not switching to Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding. If the encoder is left on Dolby 2.0 during a 5.1 program, you will only get the left and right front channels, which consist usually of sound effects, background dialogue and sometimes music beds. Also, you're not gettting a Pro Logic compatible 2.0 mix either that allows your receiver to create its own mix. The way CBS sends out their shows, a 5.1 show being encoded in 2.0 format only contains just the left and right front channels. The vast majority of the crucial audio for a program, such as dialogue, is present ONLY in the center channel and with 2.0 encoding the left and right surround and low frequency effect channels are also not present.

I've had to call KWCH numerous times on this issue, including two weeks ago on the AFC Championship game, when you couldn't hear any announcer audio. They just need to get a better grasp as to what programming is in 5.1 and which is 2.0. At the top of each primetime show, if the snipe says "Available in HD" then the audio is Dolby Digital 2.0. However, if the snipe says "Available in HD 5.1 Dolby Digital" then the show is in 5.1 and the encoder needs to be in that format.

Just don't get me started on the increasingly annoying trend of stations "forgetting" to throw the HD switch when they're done with their local break, or dipping back into SD just so they can run some "Breaking News" alert (like last night's My Name is Earl on KSNW) or tease the 10 o'clock news (Grey's Anatomy on KAKE a few times or last year's Oscars, for example).

Just don't get me started on the increasingly annoying trend of stations "forgetting" to throw the HD switch when they're done with their local break, or dipping back into SD just so they can run some "Breaking News" alert (like last night's My Name is Earl on KSNW) or tease the 10 o'clock news (Grey's Anatomy on KAKE a few times or last year's Oscars, for example).

Now you got me started. Tuesday night I had to call KWCH-12 4 times to get the HD switched back on. Having to call is bad enough, but having to convince them that the grey stripes on the sides of the 4:3 picture was produced by them not Cox was ridiculous. Of course, their resistance faded when I switched to OTA and told them I saw the same thing.

So if you are watching HD and you are sure the program is in HD/5.1, but it's not turned on, give them a call and let them know we are watching!!! Here are the phone numbers again for the locals. Always call the news room because they will always answer.

CBS: KWCH-12: 838-1212 Ext 1
ABC: KAKE-10: 946-1331
NBC: KSN-3: 292-1111

Just wanted to let everyone know that Salina now has ABC,CBS,NBC, and FOX in HD on Cox cable!! We have waited a long time for this.


Great. But for those of us in Salina who are to poor to buy the Cox Digital package and have already been receiving Hi=Def OTA for a while. I have a question.

I quit receiving KSN out of Wichita OTA about 3 days ago. Absolutely
no signal at all. Still getting CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS and WB though.

Anyone else having problems receiving KSN's signal. It has just vanished.
How bout you waynezach or any other Salina people. I was really looking forward to watching the Olympics and now I cant.

Also what was going on with CBS HD signal during Duke/ Maryland today. When I turned it on the game was not in HIgh Def in the 2nd quarter for a while. Seemes to return aftr halftime.

Thanks ahead of time from the Noobie.

As of 12:47PM am receiving KSN, but only intermittently, but I am sure that it will come in better in the evening.

I was getting a lot of drop outs during the olympics last night. Odd too as I normally record the Tonight Show every night with very few, if any drop outs. Moving my antenna around did seem to help though.

Dave G.

I was getting a lot of drop outs during the olympics last night. Odd too as I normally record the Tonight Show every night with very few, if any drop outs. Moving my antenna around did seem to help though.

Dave G.


The breakups on the Olympics last night was not the fault of KSN, but NBC and the winter storm that was hammering New York City. Everybody coast-to-coast was experiencing the exact same problem with dropouts and breakups on the HD broadcast. Apparently, they were able to move the SD broadcast to Burbank but due to bandwidth problems the HD feed had to come from New York.

I quit receiving KSN out of Wichita OTA about 3 days ago. Absolutely
no signal at all. Still getting CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS and WB though.

Anyone else having problems receiving KSN's signal. It has just vanished.
How bout you waynezach or any other Salina people. I was really looking forward to watching the Olympics and now I cant.

Same here.
Three or four days ago the KSNW signal just vanished. UPN as well.
Doesn't matter what time of the day I check it. I was guessing it must be weather/atmospheric conditions, but it has never been out for me this long.

Jeff

Same here.
Three or four days ago the KSNW signal just vanished. UPN as well.
Doesn't matter what time of the day I check it. I was guessing it must be weather/atmospheric conditions, but it has never been out for me this long.

Jeff

Yep my UPN is gone too. Strangest thing. No signal at all. I live in the center of the city a couple of blocks North of of republic. I know a guy on the south end of town who claims he is still getting KSN. Jeff, where are you located South, Central, or North in the city. I am just trying to figure this out.

Thanks for posting. At least I know I am not the only one experiencing this problem now. Keep me posted if your signal comes back.

Jeff, where are you located South, Central, or North in the city. I am just trying to figure this out.
I'm a couple blocks North of Crawford and Ohio. My antenna is only about 20 feet above ground, I would say.

Anyone know where one can buy one of these three leg towers that you see around town? I found one place online, but pricey!!

Jeff

Our DT OTA transmitter is on, but at 480i. We got a loaner microwave receiver and it wasn't as bad, but it still dropped out every minute, so we went back to our conversion at the transmitter site. We are working with the manufacturer on this.
Again Cox 606 still has 1080i HD. Try rescanning for UPN if you want, the problem with converting at the transmitter, is our expanded PSIP isn't embedded.

Picking up Wichita OTA's in Salina is great anytime, our signal was never planned to make it past McPherson. We just had some high winds in KS, and I know my outdoor antenna at home wasn't the only one to twist out of alignment, if you're having problems, it's worth looking at.

Waynezach, have you attempted plugging your basic cable into your OTA receiver and doing a scan? Supposedly the local HD's don't require a special box. I'm not sure if they show up on 600 channel #'s or not. In your setup you would want to set it to QAM or CADTV as opposed to DTV or ATSC if there is an option.
If you feel like doing that please report back, including channel #'s if it works.
I thought I remember other forum members trying this in Wichita with some success, anyone remember?

jon

I tried to hook my tuner up to cable and see if I could receive Cox's signal that way. I tried all the settings but was unable to get anything. But in the process all of my chanells were wiped out. I switched back over to the AIR option and the tuner did a complete rescan and KSN popped on with a signal strength of 65.

Now I dont know if this did it or if it was something else. Jeff I would be intereste dto hear if you are receiving KSN again yet.

I believe the tuner with Cox thing would propably work depending on the brand of tuner purchased. Mine is just cheapie, so that may have be the problem.
Jeff or Waynezach let us know if either one of you try tapping into Cox'x over the air feed.

Jeff I checked out your homepage, nice job.

It works for me on Cox up here in Manhattan. I have an LG 3510 DVD/HD Reciever combo. It recieves a few things OTA, and in QAM mode it will recieve anything Cox is sending unencrypted. This includes local HD channels, Music Channels, PPV Preview, and 3 "Mosiac" channels that show several channels at once from a similar category (News, Kids, etc).

I tried to hook my tuner up to cable and see if I could receive Cox's signal that way. I tried all the settings but was unable to get anything. But in the process all of my chanells were wiped out. I switched back over to the AIR option and the tuner did a complete rescan and KSN popped on with a signal strength of 65.

Now I dont know if this did it or if it was something else. Jeff I would be intereste dto hear if you are receiving KSN again yet.

I believe the tuner with Cox thing would propably work depending on the brand of tuner purchased. Mine is just cheapie, so that may have be the problem.
Jeff or Waynezach let us know if either one of you try tapping into Cox'x over the air feed.

Jeff I checked out your homepage, nice job.

Yes, KSN is back. I'm only getting about 60% which means lots of drop outs. I didn't have to rescan or anything, I think we are just back to better conditions for receiving distant signals. UPN showed up again too, although even weaker than KSN.

I have not tried to leach of COX signal as of yet. I have posted similar questions before to find out if anyone else has done it. I don't know what kind of tuner you have, but it needs to be able to tune QAM signals. I had to replace my cable modem yesterday, so I asked the tech guy lots of things like why does Salina have such a crappy offering of HD. He was very helpful, but didn't know when more HD would be available. I asked him if COX was broadcasting the channels unencrypted or "clear QAM" and I prefaced it with you may not want to answer this one. He kinda acted like he didn't know what I was talking about, and said he didn't think it was set up to work that way yet.

Again, you need a PC card, STB, or television that can tune QAM signals. Cable broadcasts in this mode, while OTA is ATSC or 8VSB (I think). If this works here in Salina, I would get a PC card and build my own DVR!

Jeff

Yes, KSN is back. I'm only getting about 60% which means lots of drop outs. I didn't have to rescan or anything, I think we are just back to better conditions for receiving distant signals. UPN showed up again too, although even weaker than KSN.

I have not tried to leach of COX signal as of yet. I have posted similar questions before to find out if anyone else has done it. I don't know what kind of tuner you have, but it needs to be able to tune QAM signals. I had to replace my cable modem yesterday, so I asked the tech guy lots of things like why does Salina have such a crappy offering of HD. He was very helpful, but didn't know when more HD would be available. I asked him if COX was broadcasting the channels unencrypted or "clear QAM" and I prefaced it with you may not want to answer this one. He kinda acted like he didn't know what I was talking about, and said he didn't think it was set up to work that way yet.

Again, you need a PC card, STB, or television that can tune QAM signals. Cable broadcasts in this mode, while OTA is ATSC or 8VSB (I think). If this works here in Salina, I would get a PC card and build my own DVR!

Jeff

Jeff,
I *think* Cox has to broadcast the locals in QAM in the clear. So if you sub to basic cable, and your tuner does QAM, you should get whatever locals come across in the clear. Some companies also do not encrypt like ESPN, HDnet, etc. but I think the only HD ones that are in the clear on Cox are locals. I see Wally world has a 30 sanyo that has a built in tuner for about the cost of a high end HD receiver, and it will do ASTC or QAM.....

Jeff,
I *think* Cox has to broadcast the locals in QAM in the clear. So if you sub to basic cable, and your tuner does QAM, you should get whatever locals come across in the clear. Some companies also do not encrypt like ESPN, HDnet, etc. but I think the only HD ones that are in the clear on Cox are locals. I see Wally world has a 30 sanyo that has a built in tuner for about the cost of a high end HD receiver, and it will do ASTC or QAM.....

I agree, by law COX is supposed to do that. But i have heard that some Cable Cos do it, and some don't. I was just hoping for some confirmation before putting out the $$$.

I also wondered about which level of cable service would be required. I only have basic cable (the first 22 or so channels). The cable tech said that if I got digital cable from them I would have to get (or it would include) expanded or extended basic. So that made me wonder if the clear QAM signals might be blocked (filtered) for the basic subscription level.... So many questions..

Jeff

Watched the Olympics last night on my new 60" Sony SXRD (LCoS 3-chip 1080p RPTV). Absolutely spectacular.

As an aside, I goofed buying the big Sony. The picture is unbelievably good, but this is one big TV. Makes my 15'x14' living room feel like a closet. What was I thinking? The screen isn't too big (I don't feel like I'm sitting too close), but I completely underestimated how big a 66" wide x 20" deep TV would appear. Unfortunately there's no sending it back. A 50" plasma would have been a much better choice. I'm so stupid.

I agree, by law COX is supposed to do that. But i have heard that some Cable Cos do it, and some don't. I was just hoping for some confirmation before putting out the $$$.

I also wondered about which level of cable service would be required. I only have basic cable (the first 22 or so channels). The cable tech said that if I got digital cable from them I would have to get (or it would include) expanded or extended basic. So that made me wonder if the clear QAM signals might be blocked (filtered) for the basic subscription level.... So many questions..

Jeff


One way Cox test to see if a TV with Cable Card is working correctly is to remove the card and see if the TV see the local HD channels. The local HD channels are not encrypted and can be picked up by anyone with a cable card tv without paying. Not all cable card TV's will allow a user to tune to the digital channels without a cable card inserted. My Sony is this way.

There are a few other channels not encrypted, mostly the music channels and the discovery channels (ch. 101 to 111).

You should have to upgrade to the expanded service to get digital cable. I know alot of our older customers have just basic (2 to 23) and digital, so they can get their music channels.

Watched the Olympics last night on my new 60" Sony SXRD (LCoS 3-chip 1080p RPTV). Absolutely spectacular.

As an aside, I goofed buying the big Sony. The picture is unbelievably good, but this is one big TV. Makes my 15'x14' living room feel like a closet. What was I thinking? The screen isn't too big (I don't feel like I'm sitting too close), but I completely underestimated how big a 66" wide x 20" deep TV would appear. Unfortunately there's no sending it back. A 50" plasma would have been a much better choice. I'm so stupid.

In my opinion if I was gonna do something stupid, I would want it to be that.
Sounds like an awesome tv. :)

Watched the Olympics last night on my new 60" Sony SXRD (LCoS 3-chip 1080p RPTV). Absolutely spectacular.

As an aside, I goofed buying the big Sony. The picture is unbelievably good, but this is one big TV. Makes my 15'x14' living room feel like a closet. What was I thinking? The screen isn't too big (I don't feel like I'm sitting too close), but I completely underestimated how big a 66" wide x 20" deep TV would appear. Unfortunately there's no sending it back. A 50" plasma would have been a much better choice. I'm so stupid.


Time to buy a bigger house for your new TV. :)

Our DT OTA transmitter is on, but at 480i. We got a loaner microwave receiver and it wasn't as bad, but it still dropped out every minute, so we went back to our conversion at the transmitter site. We are working with the manufacturer on this.
Again Cox 606 still has 1080i HD. Try rescanning for UPN if you want, the problem with converting at the transmitter, is our expanded PSIP isn't embedded.

Picking up Wichita OTA's in Salina is great anytime, our signal was never planned to make it past McPherson. We just had some high winds in KS, and I know my outdoor antenna at home wasn't the only one to twist out of alignment, if you're having problems, it's worth looking at.

Waynezach, have you attempted plugging your basic cable into your OTA receiver and doing a scan? Supposedly the local HD's don't require a special box. I'm not sure if they show up on 600 channel #'s or not. In your setup you would want to set it to QAM or CADTV as opposed to DTV or ATSC if there is an option.
If you feel like doing that please report back, including channel #'s if it works.
I thought I remember other forum members trying this in Wichita with some success, anyone remember?

jon


I tested my LG4200A on Cox cable up here in Salina, and I can get all of the local HD Channels, and most of the regular basic channels. (Also got a channel called the "Pentagon channel" which I have never heard of, only SD though.)

I tested my LG4200A on Cox cable up here in Salina, and I can get all of the local HD Channels, and most of the regular basic channels. (Also got a channel called the "Pentagon channel" which I have never heard of, only SD though.)
Awesome to hear that :cool:. What level of cable to you subscribe to? Is basic enough or do you need expanded or some digital level?

Thanks,
Jeff

One way Cox test to see if a TV with Cable Card is working correctly is to remove the card and see if the TV see the local HD channels. The local HD channels are not encrypted and can be picked up by anyone with a cable card tv without paying. Not all cable card TV's will allow a user to tune to the digital channels without a cable card inserted. My Sony is this way.

There are a few other channels not encrypted, mostly the music channels and the discovery channels (ch. 101 to 111).

You should have to upgrade to the expanded service to get digital cable. I know alot of our older customers have just basic (2 to 23) and digital, so they can get their music channels.

:eek: :eek: :eek: ??? Really? I've mentioned previously in this thread (Located here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6323855&&#post6323855)) that I originally got the HD channels in the clear on Cox (Wichita) with only Extended Basic. About a week afterwards they dissappeared and I haven't seen them since. I've called Cox, and even spoken with an installer that happened to be working on a neighbor's house, and they told me that Cox Wichita encrypts their HD channels.

I've rescanned the channels multiple times with my builtin ATSC tuner (Toshiba 57H94) and now only find the music channels (82-x), Fox (116-1) and UPN (116-2).

Several people have told me that there is a federal law stating that Cox MUST carry the broadcast HD channels in the clear, but nobody has been able to site a specific referenceable FCC quote. I've often heard of it called the "Must Carry Law", but their appears to be loopholes in that big enough to fit a train through.

Lately, I've been using my OTA tuner to watch the locals in HD. That works really well even with my small antenna most of the time. Occasionally, something in the neighborhood makes alot of noise, and I can't keep a lock for anything (my wife can tell by me slamming things around in the house :o ). I'd love to be able to use Cox as a backup though.

I assume by your name that you work there...can you provide me with some insight? Or even a specific tech that I could speak with who is knowledgeable?

:eek: :eek: :eek: ??? Really? that I originally got the HD channels in the clear on Cox (Wichita) with only Extended Basic. About a week afterwards they dissappeared and I haven't seen them since. I've called Cox, and even spoken with an installer that happened to be working on a neighbor's house, and they told me that Cox Wichita encrypts their HD channels.

I've rescanned the channels multiple times with my builtin ATSC tuner (Toshiba 57H94) and now only find the music channels (82-x), Fox (116-1) and UPN (116-2).

Several people have told me that there is a federal law stating that Cox MUST carry the broadcast HD channels in the clear, but nobody has been able to site a specific referenceable FCC quote. I've often heard of it called the "Must Carry Law", but their appears to be loopholes in that big enough to fit a train through.

Lately, I've been using my OTA tuner to watch the locals in HD. That works really well even with my small antenna most of the time. Occasionally, something in the neighborhood makes alot of noise, and I can't keep a lock for anything (my wife can tell by me slamming things around in the house :o ). I'd love to be able to use Cox as a backup though.

I assume by your name that you work there...can you provide me with some insight? Or even a specific tech that I could speak with who is knowledgeable?



Get free HDTV local channels over cable
Friday January 06th 2006, 1:45 pm
Filed under: Tech Gunk

I just found this, these arent my words.


Here’s what I found:

The background:

It is apparently a violation of Federal cable system operation regulation–the laws ruling their operation–for the Cox/TWCs of the world to scramble or encrypt any rebroadcast of a local transmission, including a digital one.

See here: Code of Federal Regulations, Title 47, §76.630:


And of note within all of this verbiage…

* § 76.630(a) “Cable system operators shall not scramble or otherwise encrypt signals carried on the basic service tier.”
* § 76.901(a) “(a) Basic service. The basic service tier shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations provided to any subscriber (except a signal secondarily transmitted by satellite carrier beyond the local service area of such station, regardless of how such signal is ultimately received by the cable system) any public, educational, and governmental programming required by the franchise to be carried on the basic tier, and any additional video programming signals a service added to the basic tier by the cable operator.”

So not only are they required to offer the ‘basic’ service (in the $12/month range), but they’re also required by federal law to include all locally broadcasted channels in that basic tier whether they’re analog or digital, unscrambled. In other words, plug a QAM capable tuner into your basic ($12/month) cable service, and you should get most, if not all of the local channels, unscrambled. Of course, some of the broadcasts are in SD and others are in HD up-converted from SD.. but still… The signal level indicator must read ~80% (if there is one) or above in order for the receiver to avoid pixilation in most instances… so you might have to watch how much you kill the signals with splitters and stuff.

Making it work:

You need two things: a) a tuner that supports QAM 256 (for Cox, at least, not sure what TWC is), and b)the channels you need to tune in to

Unfortunately, I’m SOL with my older Mitsubishi 60803 HDTV w/my Mitsu HD-1080 HD tuner (no QAM support) but others reported the following tuners working (as well as lots of the newer sets that have QAM 256 tuners built-in)

* Samsung SIR-T451
* Hitachi 60VS810 QAM tuner
* Sony HDD250
* Dvico FusionHDTV 5 Lite ATSC/QAM PCI Card

************************************************************ *****
:D :D :D :D
So according to this article, they have no choice.

Anyway, I just purchased a Samsung SIR-T451 refurbished for $155 online.
They had about 8 more if anyone is interested. They are going quick. They had 12 available Thursday night.


I have extended basic and will let you guys know how it goes when it gets here.
Should be towards the end of the week. I did plug a top of the line LG unit in and received all 4 of the major HD networks in addition to the ones waynezach spoke of. But those seem to run in the 300$ range if you can find them.

Her is the tuner link if you are interested. The board wouldnt let me post ti intil I had at least 5 posts.

Samsung Tuner (http://www.pricegrabber.com/user_sales_getprod.php/masterid=4051373/lot_id=2259834/)

also

http://www.barboni.org/

FCC info link

Also Jeff it sounds as if you only need "basic cable" because all 4 networks fall under this category. :)

Thanks for the answer.

I've contacted the FCC outlining this issue. My email is available here (http://house.pfunk.net:443/attach/fcc-02202006.txt). The reply to my several paragraph question was only 1 sentence long:
At this time, cable operators are only required to permit subscribers to use compatible equipment obtained from sources other than the cable operator for analog signals.

Not exactly a verbose reply! If I read it correctly, the FCC is saying that there is no mandate that requires cable companies to allow equipment other than their own to decode non-analog signals.

I also spoke to the programming manager at KWCH regarding this. He says that this issue is unregulated at this time. His recommendation was to contact my congressman and explain my concerns. Fat chance my congress person is going to understand the technical knowledge of this issue.

The funniest part; I would think that it would be in KWCH (and any other local broadcasters) best interest to see to it that COX doesn't make money off of their programming. Essentially what is happening is that Cox is rebroadcasting KWCH's signal, and then charging customers to be able to see it. The same signal that KWCH is sending over the air for free! As if the HD version was HBO or Cinemax.

So from what I can tell, cable companies are *forced* to provide local analog stations "in the clear". The legislation for digital local stations is still "up in the air".

Last year (2005), Congress failed to approved a "Digital Must Carry" rule that forced cable companies to carry multistream digital broadcasts, that keeps Cox from having to retransmit the 12-2 weather channel.

I've done ALOT of searching online for other people who are asking the same question and I'm suprised that I can't find much. Personally, I think that the "must carry" rules should be extended to the digital realm, I think it's in the best interest of the consumer. However, cable companies want more ways to make money, so forcing people to pay for it is the more likely result. I guess my choice is to continue using an antenna, or pony up for a cablecard.

My tuner comes in tomorrow. I guess I will just have to cross my fingers and hope they keep unencrypting the local HD's. I am hoping.

Now you got me started. Tuesday night I had to call KWCH-12 4 times to get the HD switched back on. Having to call is bad enough, but having to convince them that the grey stripes on the sides of the 4:3 picture was produced by them not Cox was ridiculous. Of course, their resistance faded when I switched to OTA and told them I saw the same thing.

So if you are watching HD and you are sure the program is in HD/5.1, but it's not turned on, give them a call and let them know we are watching!!! Here are the phone numbers again for the locals. Always call the news room because they will always answer.

CBS: KWCH-12: 838-1212 Ext 1
ABC: KAKE-10: 946-1331
NBC: KSN-3: 292-1111

I called NBC back during football season to complain that the Notre Dame game wasn't in HD(OTA). I was speaking to someone in the newsroom, She says "We don't have High Definition"....Jeez

Well I got my samsung tuner and after about an hour I finally started receiving my QAM channels. I get Fox and ABC. But no CBS or NBC. It is possible that they are now scrambling these two chanenels. I am hoping that waynezach will run a test with his LG3200 and see if he is getting the same results here in town as I am.

I would have to say after buying this tuner, I can not recommend it for our purposes.

We have moved 36-1 OTA back to 1080i and we will be watching it closely.

Waterfitz-
I know at my own house the Cox HD DVR has to be the first thing from the cable, and requires the most signal strength (even more then the cable modem). It didn't even like being behind my Radio Shack distribution amp. Some HD channels would show worse symptoms then others, so maybe that is the cause of not getting some channels. If possible try putting your box as the only thing on the line, hopefully before any splitters as an experiment.

jon

Jon,

I did this. I removed all splitters and ran the coax directly in to the tuner. No luck. CBS and NBC still dont exist. I am still waiting on Waynezach to hopefully run a test with his tuner. :cool:

PS> I still cant receive NBC over the air anymore. It came in one night in the last 3 weeks and that was it.

I still cant receive NBC over the air anymore. It came in one night in the last 3 weeks and that was it.

Same here for KSNW. But it is coming right now really strong. UPN (in HD) is there but all blotchy, too weak to lock.

Now, back to 24 on FOX!

Jeff

******************UPDATE ON MY QAM TUNER*****************************


Great news. After getting with waynezach and exchanging a few emails we were able to get my tuner to receive NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, and UPN all directly from Cox.
The tuner did not tune the channels in in the scanning process, but I punched the channels in manually (w/ the channell numbers he gave me that he was receiving with his tuner)
and presto it worked.

I can now recommend this tuner again. It has its weak points, but it does get the job done....!!!

Thanks alot waynezach.



******************************* ********************************

Doubt they'll work here in Wichita, but would you mind sharing those channels? Might help someone from Salina in the future. This appears to be the "definitative" thread on the internet with regards to HDTV in the Kansas area.

Chanell numbers 114-x CBS ,115-x NBC & ABC, 116-x FOX & UPN. The subchanells he uses and mine are different. Dont know why. But if you punch in one of the 3 numbers above, your tuner should lock in on that chanell. Then you should be able to chanell up through the subchanells manually till the networks appear. :)

Chanell numbers 114-x CBS ,115-x NBC & ABC, 116-x FOX & UPN. The subchanells he uses and mine are different. Dont know why. But if you punch in one of the 3 numbers above, your tuner should lock in on that chanell. Then you should be able to chanell up through the subchanells manually till the networks appear. :)

Sub numbers different because of the different cities and what pods they are carried on. Salina is having it's system rebuilt and will add a bunch of digital channels soon.

All local HD channels are clear channels, not encrypted. So you can receive them if your TV can decode QAM. Also, most TV's, you have to enter in the channel (i.e. 115.1, 116.2 and ect), not the COX number (i.e. 601, 603 and ect). Hope this helps.

Will these digital channels be new channels, or will they be the analogue ones converted to digital? Also do you know how many HDTV channels we will be getting, and when? Thanks in advance,

Wayne

Will these digital channels be new channels, or will they be the analogue ones converted to digital? Also do you know how many HDTV channels we will be getting, and when? Thanks in advance,

Wayne


New Digital channels. Unknown about the HD channels. No digital simulcasting at this time for analog. But that will happen sometime this year.

:mad: For the last two weeks, we have been unable to hold a lock on KSNW-DT, Channel 3's digital HD station on Channel 45. We have a DISH DVR-921 receiver and all the other channels in the area are locking fine.

The signal strength fluctuates from 0 to 80+ but dosen't stay at 80 more than a second or two. It has been completely unwatchable tonight. Last night during medium it would drop out for two to five seconds about every minute.

Have they dropped their power at KSNW-DT or is their something wrong with their encoder?

Has anyone reported this to the engineers there.

Thanks,

KSNW Digital is slightly down on power. We have a service call into the transmitter
manufacture. for help with the Tx. They are planning a on site visit to help us get it
back to were it needs to be.

Thanks for the update. I thought it might be a power issue. I hope the manufacturer is able to get it all back up to normal for you. Thanks Again!

What happend to the QAM unencrypted signal for KAKE (ABC) on cox? I have a QAM
built-in TV, and when I did the digital chan scan on cox cable (extended basic) I got
all locals except KAKE and WB. I used to get KAKE after a scan at 10.1, now it's
not available at all. This seemed to change about a week or so ago. Anybody know
the manual channel # for KAKE QAM unencrypted on Cox?

Quick correction on my above post, I was getting KAKE QAM unecrypted on channel 2.0
after chan-scan (not 10.1) on Cox. Not getting it at all now.

After doing some poking around, here is the list of HD/Digital channels I'm getting with just
expanded basic (analog) subscription from Cox, which are un-encrypted, and only need a
QAM tuner to receive:

82.5-82.50 - Music choice digital music
83.4 - Azteca America (spanish)
83.5-83.10 - Audio infomercials / talk radio
89.5 - Biography Channel
90.9 - PPV preview
93.1 - NBA League pass preview
114.1 - KPTS (e|i)
114.2 - NASA
114.3 - KPTS HD (PBS)
114.4 - KPTS (create)
114.5 - KWCH HD (CBS)
114.6 - KWCH WX (weather radar)
115.1 - KSNW HD (NBC)
115.2 - KAKE HD (ABC)
115.3 - Pentagon Channel
116.3 - KSCC HD (UPN)
116.10 - KSAS HD (FOX)
120.1 - NBA League Pass Preview

If anyone else knows of any others, please post.

I called NBC back during football season to complain that the Notre Dame game wasn't in HD(OTA). I was speaking to someone in the newsroom, She says "We don't have High Definition"....Jeez


lol, i'm guilty too.. same exact thing, i could only get ahold of someone in the news room. he said blah blah nyc controls that.. go irish in 06! & i cant forget about shox in sweet 16..amazing

Has anyone heard what's going on with the transmitter at KSNW-DT. I still cannot get a continuous lock on Channel 45. This has been going on about a month now and is getting quite frustrating.

New Digital channels. Unknown about the HD channels. No digital simulcasting at this time for analog. But that will happen sometime this year.
Wow, I just noticed this post. Cox will be doing digital simulcasting sometime this year? That's great news! Once that happens I'll ditch analog channels forever.

Any more information you'd like to share? What about new HD channels? (ESPN2 for example :) ).

For those that would like the National Geographic Channel in HD on Cox

I found this out when I called there Marketing Department Friday.

National Geo HD is trying to get Cox cable to add right now, but Cox is telling them, that not very many of there customers want it and they they may add the MTV HD or FOOD HD channel instead (they have limited bandwidth).

So they setup a web site and a 1-877 number so you can vote to say you want it. Go to it the site and also call. They said they would be meeting again with Cox in 3 week again to show them charts and stats, that Yes there customers do want the HD channel.

The web page only reports how many HITS they got. The 1-877 records your Zip code and that you want the HD Channel. You can only vote once as all 1-800 numbers also record your caller id number even if its blocked.

Here is the link

http://getngc.cablesource.net/greet...cookie_redirect

It will then give you the 1-877 number to call and VOTE to get National Geo HD.

Here is the phone # info I got
=========================
NGCHD
National Geographic Channel High Definition (NGCHD) is not currently offered by Cox Communications. Please call 877-77NGCHD (877-776-4243) to request that NGCHD be added to your channel line-up!
=========================


Good luck everyone in your market.

For those that would like the National Geographic Channel in HD on Cox

I found this out when I called there Marketing Department Friday.

National Geo HD is trying to get Cox cable to add right now, but Cox is telling them, that not very many of there customers want it and they they may add the MTV HD or FOOD HD channel instead (they have limited bandwidth).

So they setup a web site and a 1-877 number so you can vote to say you want it. Go to it the site and also call. They said they would be meeting again with Cox in 3 week again to show them charts and stats, that Yes there customers do want the HD channel.

We already have MTV HD (MHD) here in Wichita (Channel Lineup (http://www.cox.com/kansas/digitalcable/cityinfo.asp?city=Wichita#5)). So basically it's down to National Geographic HD or Food Network HD? Better not tell my wife that, because she'll pick Food Network every time. :o

Greetings,

I am getting an HD set this week and would like any useful tips/info from you guys. I've got an indoor antenna for OTA broadcasts, and will initially use my Cox cable with no converter box hooked into the tv. The tv does have the full complement of internal tuners built in, including QAM. What channels can I expect to receive in HD over cable -- I'm assuming only the broadcast ones, but would be pleasantly surprised if any others get through. And will I see better picture quality with the OTA signals vs cable?

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated.

I am recieving zero signal strength from the KSAS translator up here in salina. The analog is fine. I can recieve the digital signal from Wichita, but not well enough to get a lock.

Anyone know what's up with Fox Salina transmission? Its less than half an hour until 24!

Thanks,

Jeff

I was getting less than 60 on my Voom box, and it never did lock here in Manhattan....

Greetings,

I am getting an HD set this week and would like any useful tips/info from you guys. I've got an indoor antenna for OTA broadcasts, and will initially use my Cox cable with no converter box hooked into the tv. The tv does have the full complement of internal tuners built in, including QAM. What channels can I expect to receive in HD over cable -- I'm assuming only the broadcast ones, but would be pleasantly surprised if any others get through. And will I see better picture quality with the OTA signals vs cable?

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated.

JohnsonBrewer,
Look back about 6 posts from yours and I listed all the HD/Digital chans from Cox that are
available with only basic analog cable subscription, and a QAM tuner. That is Wichita area.
I also have an OTA antenna, and the HD channels look identical via Cox Cable as compared
to OTA. I rarely use the OTA antenna anymore, as Cox provides all HD/Digital locals (except
for WB).

You mentioned being able to receive the local HD channels over basic Cox analog. I have digital cable currently so will that have any impact? Stupid Question-- At what point does digital cable become digital?? After the digital STB?? And what is coming into the house, is that digital there or just analog? Never thought about it until now. Should get my QAM HDTV in a couple of days--in time for the Masters.

I cant say for sure, as I've never subscribed to digital cable, but when I do a digital channel
scan with my Sony QAM TV on Cox cable (extended basic subscription only) it says it found
324 digital chans, 67 of them are "in-the-clear". I would assume if I subscribed to a digital
tier of some sort, and got a cable-card from Cox (TV is cable-card ready), I would then be
able to view the digital chans with no other mods or installations needed from cox. If your
TV is cable-card compatible, you can probably just plug the cable right from the wall jack
into the TV, bypassing the STB, and use the cable card for decrypting the encrypted digital
chans. You could then use the STB on a different non-QAM capable TV, or return it and not
pay a monthly fee for it. I think the cable-cards are very cheap per month to get.

Thanks dr.

The tv is cable card ready and I may end up getting one anyway, but I'm just exploring my "free" reception options first. This is in a newly finished basement so I do not have a STB on this setup, just on the tv upstairs. No doubt I will want their HD package too so I can get ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD, etc. The only thing with the cable card is that I won't get the interactive program guide and can't do ppv. But I haven't done a ppv in a couple of years anyway. I will check to see how much they are charging for the cable cards and whether they're rented or bought outright. But since I'm already paying for digital the only other tier charge should be for the HD service. Thanks for your help. You mentioned Sony, what set do you have? I'm getting an HP LCD 37" now after talking myself into waiting for next years Sony SXRD. That set is amazing.

I have the KD-36XS955. Its a 36" Tube-type, weighs over 240 lbs, but had the best picture
by far of any of the TV's at Circuit City. It is a standard 4:3 picture ratio, but when showing
High Dev 16:9 format, it is actually the same effective picture size as a 33" widescreen (you
get black bars on top & bottom). It does a wonderful job of rendering plain old SD analog
picture, which is mostly what I still watch anyway. Some of the analog SD chans look very
close to DVD player output (I have a good strong analog signal from Cox). Of course the HD
picture is amazing on it as well. It's a great TV for "getting your feet" wet in the HD world,
without sacrificing performance in the analog world.

Thanks dr.

The tv is cable card ready and I may end up getting one anyway, but I'm just exploring my "free" reception options first. This is in a newly finished basement so I do not have a STB on this setup, just on the tv upstairs. No doubt I will want their HD package too so I can get ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD, etc. The only thing with the cable card is that I won't get the interactive program guide and can't do ppv. But I haven't done a ppv in a couple of years anyway. I will check to see how much they are charging for the cable cards and whether they're rented or bought outright. But since I'm already paying for digital the only other tier charge should be for the HD service. Thanks for your help. You mentioned Sony, what set do you have? I'm getting an HP LCD 37" now after talking myself into waiting for next years Sony SXRD. That set is amazing.

I believe they are 2.99 per month plus the gateway fee of $4 or so....total being around $7, give or take some.....No you can't buy the cable card, they are rented only. Stay away from Toshiba TV's and Mitshubishi TV's also..too many problems getting them to work correctly, but that's up to you if you willing to spend the money and it might not work.
Also remember 2-way cable cards are coming in a year or so, so if you can get the same TV without the cable card, save your money and wait for the 2-way cable card to be introduced.
If you have a STB on another TV, you will miss the program guide when watching the new TV...can't tell you how many times a person has went back to the STB just for the guide itself.

Thanks for the response. I just got my set hooked up tonight and it looks great.

I believe they are 2.99 per month plus the gateway fee of $4 or so....total being around $7, give or take some
So, what do you actually get for your $7 per month as far as subscription channels? Do
you get your choice of 1 basic tier?

What is the real story of getting 'HD' signal free with a lowest/basic non-digital tier in Wichita from COX?

I have a USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/howitworks.htm) http://www.hisense.com/backc/en/pro_infor/pic/01-20041008174139_Picture%20265%20129.jpg receiver and the ice storm last year and the crazy winds this year has made my external antenna almost usless...

So I am again looking for a low cost replacement..

Or a fair priced (not just $75 to come and give a quote as I got from two of the local 'TV SHOPS' that were suggested to me a few months ago..) installer of a new antenna and coaxial cable in to my home.

I currently use 'DirecTV' for my superscription service provider.

--David

What is the real story of getting 'HD' signal free with a lowest/basic non-digital tier in Wichita from COX? I have a USDTV receiver and the ice storm last year and the crazy winds this year has made my external antenna almost usless...

If that is the DB-2010 receiver, I did not see in it's specs where it receives QAM modulation.
That means it wont receive any digital/HD content from Cox, encrypted or non-encrypted.
In my post #1221, I listed all the unencrypted digital/HD channels which are part of the
expanded "basic" cable subscription. I would assume they would also be available with the
plain "basic" subscription, but I could be wrong about that. I would recommend hooking
your receiver up to a friend's cable (who subscribes to Cox) and see if any of the listed
digital/HD channels from post #1221 are decoded by it.

What is the real story of getting 'HD' signal free with a lowest/basic non-digital tier in Wichita from COX?

I have a USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/howitworks.htm) http://www.hisense.com/backc/en/pro_infor/pic/01-20041008174139_Picture%20265%20129.jpg receiver and the ice storm last year and the crazy winds this year has made my external antenna almost usless...

So I am again looking for a low cost replacement..

Or a fair priced (not just $75 to come and give a quote as I got from two of the local 'TV SHOPS' that were suggested to me a few months ago..) installer of a new antenna and coaxial cable in to my home.

I currently use 'DirecTV' for my superscription service provider.

--David

David,

If you have basic cable (either the limitied or the lim/expanded) you will be able to watch all unencrypted channels we offer. Right now that's only going to be your local HD channels and music only channles. YOU MUST HAVE A TV THAT CAN HANDLE QAM SIGNAL!!!!!!!!!! That usually mean your TV is cable card ready. Without that, you will not be able to tune to those QAM channels.
Service runs from $43 plus tax for lim/exp up to $90 something for full digital DVR, including all HD channels that Cox offers. Hope that helps.

So, what do you actually get for your $7 per month as far as subscription channels? Do
you get your choice of 1 basic tier?

I believe all Cox gives for that is HD channels only for that price, plus the music channels and maybe the Discovery tier. Not totaly sure. Might get one tier. I think just staying the a STB is a better value, as it's only a few dollars more per month.

Well, the installer just left my house about an hour ago...he installed a Cablecard in my Toshiba, and took back the STB. Man, I'm thrilled. I don't notice any improvement in the signal (some folks do report better quality, since the tuner is built into the TV and is shielded with a shorter path to the output). That's ok though...I'm mostly excited to have all my channels using my TV's remote control and TV guide.

As a standard Analog cable customer I was never able to receive the "unencrypted" QAM local channels...I've been told that it is possible...but it never worked for me. Since this cablecard only costs me $3 a month, rather than $9 a month for the STB, I'm relatively happy. Now, off to watch more DiscoveryHD with the kids ;-)

I'm assuming you opted for the additional HD programming package along with the cablecard to receive Discovery HD?? And not just getting that channel with the card??

I'm assuming you opted for the additional HD programming package along with the cablecard to receive Discovery HD?? And not just getting that channel with the card??

It shouldn't be an additional charge beyond the card (or the box). When I upgraded to an HDTV, I already had their DVR which had HD outputs. I had to call them and get them to add the HD channels, but there was no additional monthly cost.

The plot thickens.... This is getting confusing. I have a QAM TV, but no cablecard. I only
subscribe to expanded basic cable (Cox). I get all the local digital/HD channels, plus the
music chans and a few other chans. Are you saying that if I simply got a cablecard plugged
into my TV, rented it for $3 per month, I could then get all of the other basic HD chans
(Discovery, maybe ESPN/ESPN2, TNT) at no additional cost??? I see Brian is from Manhattan,
maybe Cox operates differently there.

The plot thickens.... This is getting confusing. I have a QAM TV, but no cablecard. I only
subscribe to expanded basic cable (Cox). I get all the local digital/HD channels, plus the
music chans and a few other chans. Are you saying that if I simply got a cablecard plugged
into my TV, rented it for $3 per month, I could then get all of the other basic HD chans
(Discovery, maybe ESPN/ESPN2, TNT) at no additional cost??? I see Brian is from Manhattan,
maybe Cox operates differently there.

That's pretty much how it works up here, and I'm almost sure that's how it would work down there in Wichita as well. To my knowledge, Cox doesn't have an HD package that you can purchase in any market, it just needs to be added to your account and device, whether it is a cable card or set top box.

The plot thickens.... This is getting confusing. I have a QAM TV, but no cablecard. I only
subscribe to expanded basic cable (Cox). I get all the local digital/HD channels, plus the
music chans and a few other chans. Are you saying that if I simply got a cablecard plugged
into my TV, rented it for $3 per month, I could then get all of the other basic HD chans
(Discovery, maybe ESPN/ESPN2, TNT) at no additional cost??? I see Brian is from Manhattan,
maybe Cox operates differently there.

Pretty much...that's how it works. The QAM tuner only allows you to "see" digital streams on the coax. However, on the coax are encrypted streams (ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, MHD, InHD, InHD2, UHD) and there are unencrypted streams ( ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, etc).

The cablecard is simply a decryption card. Your TV has a unique identifier inside of it, and the card has it's own unique identifier. Those numbers are provided to Cox, and they tell their headend about those devices. A negotiation occurs when you startup the cablecard, and it receives the key to decrypt the streams. At which point, you're authorized to see the encypted data.

My experience with my Toshiba TV with COX has been "difficult".

Without a cablecard and with only their "Expanded Analog package": I can only get the digital versions of FOX, UPN and their music channels tuned in with my QAM tuner. Others have reported success getting all the digital local channels their TV's (other brands).

With a cablecard and their "Digital Tier": I can receive all digital channels in my cable package. This includes all the local channels, as well as the HD channels (except the "movie" HD channels ie. Showtime, HBO). In order to receive the movie channels, I would need to pay for the analog version (which enables the digital version as well).

Cox consitently warned me that they have problems getting cablecards to work with Toshiba TVs. I spoke with Toshiba, and got the latest version of their firmware prior to their arrival and the cablecard installation went really well.

Man, that was long winded...but I hope it clears things up for you.

The plot thickens.... This is getting confusing. I have a QAM TV, but no cablecard. I only
subscribe to expanded basic cable (Cox). I get all the local digital/HD channels, plus the
music chans and a few other chans. Are you saying that if I simply got a cablecard plugged
into my TV, rented it for $3 per month, I could then get all of the other basic HD chans
(Discovery, maybe ESPN/ESPN2, TNT) at no additional cost??? I see Brian is from Manhattan,
maybe Cox operates differently there.

The card is $3 and the gateway is $5. So its more like $7 or $8 more a month. And yes, that will give you all the HD channels Cox offers.

By "gateway", is that just another term for "fee"??

Just talked with Cox and they told me the monthly charge for the card is $1.99. So I'm getting hooked up with that as soon as they can get out to the house. $29.95 connection fee. I guess I'm already paying the "gateway" fee by getting digital cable, according to the last bill. Maybe they are still adding HD channels, but it will be nice to have ESPNHD, Discovery, and the INHD channels.