Yes, we saw that on WKEF too. My wife was recording Grey's Anatomy and watching it slightly behind schedule. It bothered her so much she ended up stopping the recording during a commercial, flipped to analog WFEF, and finished recording it there.

I did notice on WKEF-DT (via TW) that the commercials, though not in HD, were fine. Does that suggest a network feed issue ?? I meant to check the "HDTV Programming" forum here to see if others around the country ran into too.

Our feed in Cincinnati, outside of the jagged picture issue, was fine.

Update 5/16(tue) 9:20pm - Noticed the weird "color artifacts" are occuring currently from WKEF-DT during HD "Boston Legal". I didn't check it last night, but, it does perhaps look slightly different than what I described I've seen on other occasions earlier(below).

At times, it's going to B&W(or Grey), and seems to be effecting certian "polygon like shapes" on the screen ... And/Or, it's as if the Chroma information is lagging behind the frame where it is "supposed to be" by a fraction of a second, and is also causing what looks like some sort of "color ghosting" ..It's as if the encoder were throwing away Chroma information, such as say when bandwidth is "constrained" during bandwidth demanding portions of programming, which is of course likely a bit more "constrained" due to the Tube ...
:end update

The weird "color ghosting" thing has happened occasionally in the past during Network HD programming from several different stations in Dayton+Cincinnati, and in each case it was a station "specific" issue, not a network issue ... First time I can recall seeing it was from WKEF-DT (NBC HD at the time) during one of the either 2002 or 2003 Triple crown HD races. As I recall, I've seen it happen before from WLWT-DT and WDTN-DT as well, and as I recall in each case the Network HD was effected, but local programming(including local SD(upconverted SD of course) commercial breaks during HD programming.

Once when it happened from either WKEF-DT or WDTN-DT(can't recall which one) and I was in contact with their engineers about it, If I recall correctly I believe they said it was an issue which "rebooting the encoder" fixed ...

Probably have only seen it happen 4 or 5 times (each time was fixed within a day or so) since I began watching HD (OTA) from Cincy+Dayaton stations in 2001.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

WRGT-DT + 27.5 back again :

On another note, noticed the duplicate "27.5" PSIP virtual channel has been back again from WRGT-DT since Sunday night. Decoding them just fine on either 27.5 or 45.1, and, of course 30.3 without PSIP is fine as well.

Yes, we saw that on WKEF too. My wife was recording Grey's Anatomy and watching it slightly behind schedule. It bothered her so much she ended up stopping the recording during a commercial, flipped to analog WFEF, and finished recording it there.

I did notice on WKEF-DT (via TW) that the commercials, though not in HD, were fine. Does that suggest a network feed issue ?? I meant to check the "HDTV Programming" forum here to see if others around the country ran into too.

I saw the same thing on Grey's Anatomy and it's on Boston Legal as well today - it looks like crap. I noticed the commercials had the problem also.

Is it WKEF, TW, ??

I saw the same thing on Grey's Anatomy and it's on Boston Legal as well today - it looks like crap. I noticed the commercials had the problem also.

Is it WKEF, TW, ??

WKEF. It's happening OTA as well, but not from other ABC HD affiliates, at least not from WCPO-DT Cincinnati, although has Terry mentioned they are having their own(different) problems ......

Just caught a few local commercials+news promos at 10:43PM EDT, Its not happening there. As you noticed, it is happening during national commercials, at least it appears ones which are upconverted to 720p at network level and sent over ABC HD feed.

I saw the same thing on Grey's Anatomy and it's on Boston Legal as well today - it looks like crap. I noticed the commercials had the problem also.

Is it WKEF, TW, ?? dc10forlife says it was occuring for him with OTA so it's not Time Warner. TW can't, or won't, "fix" the signal. They pass it on to us, good signal or bad signal, as they receive it.

Noticed the color ghosting/etc. is still happening on WKEF-DT during ABC HD tonight, duplicate 27.5 is still there from WRGT-DT as well.

Anybody call WKEF yet(or WRGT concerning the 27.5 "duplicate" PSIP channel issue) ?

I'll let others have the fun this time around ..... Besides, the more folks they know are watching and paying attention to the quality of their signal the better IMO ....

------------------------------------------------------------

Last update: Received cable yesterday with the HD ESPN package... looks freakin amazing... time to learn how to become a DISH tester lol

- thanks again for all your help.

Looks like WKEF-DT straightened out their "Color" problems, as ABC HD looks good for "Remember the Titans" on WKEF-DT, tonight.

I just got an advertisment for TWC in the mail. It say local HDTV is available for free. The ad has ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS for the locals. Could this mean HD NBC is now not far off for the Dayton area on cable? I sure hope so.

Did you make sure there weren't any disclaimers like, "Not all stations are available in all areas"?

Every ad or flyer I've seen has had fine print specifying that NBC isn't available for "Dayton area" customers. TW Dayton's website still says "Get more primetime programming than satellite — included with Digital Cable, see HDTV programs from local broadcast networks including ABC, CBS, FOX and PBS".

Notice in addition to 45.1 and 27.5, 27.6 is now also appearing from WRGT-DT I believe since last night. All three are the same programming service, they appear to be multiple/duplicate virtual channels ....

BTW - A bit OT -- I've caught a HD documentary on PBS the past couple of weeks entitled "The Greater Good" - It's A history of U.S. Forest Service, including archival film footage which has obviously been transfered to HD ... IMO, The PQ on this was absolutely fantastic(well, other than the occasional MPEG2 compression artifacts from local stations during "bandwidth demanding" sections), including some of the early B&W footage .... if anyone is interested, you might want to check their schedule(s) and check it out from WPTD-DT/ThinkTVHD or one of the other PBS HD stations in the area, PTII (1941~present) aired a couple of nights ago, and will probably be repeated on PBS HD channel(PT 1 was repeated several times last weekend) ....

Anyone find more channels in DIAG mode?

A co-worker was looking to get a 2nd DVR for the football world cup coming up and called Sound Waves (South). He got "the number you are calling is no longer in service". ??? So he called the Huber Heights store and the guy told them they out of or getting out of the "retail" business. Anyone know what that's about ??

I just got an advertisment for TWC in the mail. It say local HDTV is available for free. The ad has ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS for the locals. Could this mean HD NBC is now not far off for the Dayton area on cable? I sure hope so.

Boy I hope you are correct but I think it's a mistake.

I don't think all of the TimeWarner site has been cleaned up. Why you would get a piece of mail that is incorrect is beyond me. Could it be?? or is it just false advertising or false hope.

WKEF used to be NBC and I believe they were HDTV on TW at that time. I'm not sure if WDTN has ever had HDTV on TW (regardless of network affiliation). I went to the TW site and searched on NBC, HDTV and TimeWarner and found a few things there still.

For instance, here is one FAQ that isn't correct... in fact, given that the Olympics weren't in HDTV (and that Universal channel they added doesn't really count for prime coverage)

Q: What shows can I get in high definition with Time Warner Cable?

A: You will get all of the high definition shows carried by the channels that we offer including prime time lineups from networks like ABC, CBS, NBC and WB. You'll also get annual special events such as the Super Bowl, the NBA Finals, the Stanley Cup, the Academy Awards, the NCAA Final Four, and the PGA Masters. In addition, you'll get high definition movies and programming from HBO and Showtime including The Sopranos and Sex And The City.

Also this info is on the site.. http://www.timewarnercable.com/Investorrelations/pressreleases/TWCPressReleaseDivDetail.ashx?PRID=136&MarketID=85

Etc.

So far there is only hope..

That press release you linked to is for ALL Time Warner divisions. Did your excitement or anticipation cause you to miss this part ??

Specific high definition programming lineups vary by market depending on local broadcast agreements.

That press release you linked to is for ALL Time Warner divisions. Did your excitement or anticipation cause you to miss this part ??

Specific high definition programming lineups vary by market depending on local broadcast agreements.

Arrrggggg....

I'm still keeping hope. This has to get done before my Steelers start playing again.

There is always hope!

Arrrggggg....

I'm still keeping hope. This has to get done before my Steelers start playing again.

There is always hope!
Yea, I can't wait to watch the Bengals mop the floor with the Steelers this year on my HD set lol

I just got an advertisment for TWC in the mail. It say local HDTV is available for free. The ad has ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS for the locals. Could this mean HD NBC is now not far off for the Dayton area on cable? I sure hope so.

Local HDTV is available for free. Its just that Time warner has nothing to do with it. ou need an antenna.

I've been searching this forum and Time Warner's site, but I can't find a listing anywhere of what resolution and sound (Dolby 5.1,etc.) is provided for each channel in their digital lineup. Right now I have analog cable which has most of the local digital channels on it (although some are too weak at times). Using my JVC Pro I use the same cable for both my analog and digital tuners. Any Ideas where I can find this information?

Also, in TWC's recent flyer they say they have a HD DVR - anyone know anything about it?

Thanks!!

TW doesn't really "care" what (video) resolution or sound format a channel broadcasts in. To find this out, you need to go to that channel and ask (or their website). What channels are you referring to ?? If it's a network channel, i.e. WHIO (CBS), they will be broadcasting in the same format as CBS nationally. For channels like ESPN, HBO, Discovery, that information is available either on their websites or at this site (if you can find it).

I have their HD DVR.... They've had them available for maybe two years now. What do you want to know ?? Here's some information: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804

I just drove by the HH Sound Waves. They had a "Last Day - Going out of Business Sale" sign out. Looks like they may be down to just display furniture by now.

Notice WRGT-DT PSIP VCT(virtual channel table) is currently back to "normal" with 30.3 remapping to only 45.1. 27.5 "East", and 27.6 "MNTN", are now gone.

Anyone watch WKEF last night? Wife was watching "Grey's Anatomy" and there was a horrible ghosting/color problem on both 22.1 and TWC 722. The music videos were coming in fine on 22.2.

Any chance 22.2 could/will be used to show additional regional college football games during the football season (e.g. one big 10 game on 22.1 and one pac 10 game on 22.2)?

They had this going on for most of the week, but it wasn't a problem, it was a feature. They were doing a limited test of their new "Enhanced TV" (or some weird name like that) service. It's basically a pseudo 3D thing they were testing out on some of their HD shows. You could request special 3D glasses from them, which made the shows appear in 3D. You needed the glasses to view it, or else it just looked all messed up, with red and blue ghosting everywhere.

I think it failed miserably, since they didn't advertise for it well, so nobody had the glasses. I hadn't heard about it beforehand, so I was pretty pissed off watching Lost and Grey's anatomy this way.

^^^^
Sarcasm doesn't work well on the internet. Unless you weren't joking and then it would be helpful to post some kind of article as reference OR some other kind of proof.

Sarcasm doesn't work well on the internet. If I fell for that joke, which it clearly is, I sure wouldn't admit it to people.

^^^^
Sarcasm doesn't work well on the internet. Unless you weren't joking and then it would be helpful to post some kind of article as reference OR some other kind of proof.

This wasn't a joke, I was being very serious. It happened during a week when there was a new episode of Lost (I'm a huge Lost fan) and there were fan uproars all over Lost message boards over it. I'm surprised this is the first some of you have had of this.

It's been awhile, so I doubt I can find anything relevant, but I'll look.

TW doesn't really "care" what (video) resolution or sound format a channel broadcasts in. To find this out, you need to go to that channel and ask (or their website). What channels are you referring to ?? If it's a network channel, i.e. WHIO (CBS), they will be broadcasting in the same format as CBS nationally. For channels like ESPN, HBO, Discovery, that information is available either on their websites or at this site (if you can find it).

I have their HD DVR.... They've had them available for maybe two years now. What do you want to know ?? Here's some information: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804

Thanks Hall!! I just thought there might be a listing available. I can't even find what TWC offers - their pricing goes by DIGIPICs but their channel listings go by tiers. I'm debating when/whether to go to digital before they come out with a 2-way cable card.

Thanks for the link on the SA 8300HD forum. Found out everything I needed.

Once I figure out what I want, I next need to figure out the best way to connect everything.

You can't "compare" because they allow you to mix and match things.

Aren't these soccer games supposed to be in HD on ABC? Hope it swicthces over in time for the Belmont.

Aren't these soccer games supposed to be in HD on ABC? Hope it swicthces over in time for the Belmont.

World Cup Soccer is HD on WKEF-DT Dayton and WCPO-DT Cincinnati at 1:23pm EDT, and has been HD everytime I've switched to WKEF-DT. It was HD this morning as well.

Anyone with TW having video pixelation problems with ESPNHD? It's breaking up every 10 seconds or so but the sound continues. The other HD channels seem fine.

Notice WDTN-DT 2.1 has had SD up for the NBC HD hockey game tonight everytime I've checked, It's HD from WLWT-DT Cincinnati.

Yep, was wondering if it was my SonyHD300 that took a lightning hit a few months back or something else. Everytime I checked 2.1 or 2.2 it was in SD, so I turned off the projector and went upstairs to the old regular TV.

Still might need to get a new Directv/ota HDTV receiver as it seems this Sony HD300 just isn't the same after it took a lightning strike. It got the directv portion of the receiver only I thought, but it seems I've lost ~5 OTA stations I used to pull in with no problem.

Hmph...

PS: Anyone have the email for WDTN-DT?

It got the directv portion of the receiver only I thought, but it seems I've lost ~5 OTA stations I used to pull in with no problem.


Hmmm, If it damaged the OTA portion of the receiver, it perhaps seems odd your still receiving WDTN-DT OK ... What stations did you lose, that might give us some ideas ?

Sorry for the Double posts, didn't see R_Willis's update until after I'd posted last message.


PS: Anyone have the email for WDTN-DT?


Contact info for WDTN is here(Note : thier Chief Engineer's Email address is listed) :

http://www.wdtn.com/page1143.cfm

When they are missing HD, it's probably best to call the newsroom line (Newsroom: (937) 293-5121 ) and report the missing HD, perhaps asking to be transferred to engineering or the Tech on duty if necessary ...

Do however keep in mind that unless something has changed recently, HD switching for WDTN is "remotely" controlled from a LIN facility at WISH-TV in Indianapolis, so it might take some time for them to get it "straightned out" ... Also, I have the feeling it is possible they may not have been getting many calls asking for HD lately, so I expect it may be possible it might take a bit of extra "effort" and calls from several folks to get the "message through" ...


Note: Notice that WDTN-DT does have SNL in HD tonight, so it appears likely they haven't had a problem concerning the ability to provide HD.

Hmmm, If it damaged the OTA portion of the receiver, it perhaps seems odd your still receiving WDTN-DT OK ... What stations did you lose, that might give us some ideas ?

Here is a link to my old post with what I was pulling in:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3701184&&#post3701184

Tonight I had:
2.1
2.2
7.1
16.1
16.2
16.3
16.4
16.5
16.6
45.1

And out of all those, the only HD programming I saw was on 7-1 (NCIS). But, that might be normal for tonight's programming (minus the hockey snaffu).

So, I appear to have lost a lot of channels. I sent in the Sony HD300 to SONY's official repair service and they wouldn't repair it because of the surge/lightning and cited it as "IC 360 and Modem Circuit Blown Out/Unable to Repair".

At first I thought I was ok and that the OTA was working, but now with this lack of channels I'm worried. Not to mention NCIS on 7-1 was coming in fine in HD, but sure didn't look up to quality. I'm thinking my HD300 might be trash now. :(

However, I haven't been up in the Attic to check on my Channel Master antenna since I put it up there. I guess it could have moved around or something....

PS: Email sent to WDTN-DT about Monday night's game #4 NHL in HD.

Anyone with TW having video pixelation problems with ESPNHD? It's breaking up every 10 seconds or so but the sound continues. The other HD channels seem fine.


For horse racing earlier in the day it was fine. When I switched to SC later in the evening, I saw the same thing. This problem cropped up on TWC awhile ago, and looked like it had been fixed. Last night was the first time I had seen the problem in awhile.

Aren't these soccer games supposed to be in HD on ABC? Hope it swicthces over in time for the Belmont.

The morning game was all in HD, I called at the start of the 2nd half of the Swiss game and they switched almost instantaneously.

If you ever notice anything not in HD that should be, just call up the stations newsroom and ask them to pass a message to the control room to switch to the HD feed, it helps the entire community out and unless there is a major problem it typically gets switched within 5 minutes or so.

Here is a link to my old post with what I was pulling in:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3701184&&#post3701184

Tonight I had:
2.1
2.2
7.1
16.1
16.2
16.3
16.4
16.5
16.6
45.1



1st off, sorry for the length, I couldn't figure out a way to say some of the below in a "short" post. And, I'm not sure if any, or much of the below will be very useful or not, as it's hard to guess what may be going on. But just in case some of it may help, follows are some thoughts ...

Perhaps it could be a problem due to damage from the lightning strike - I suppose you'll know or at least find out more when you get the receiver replaced.

I suppose if you can say for certian whether or not you "lost" any OTA channels which you were receiving perfectly fine immediately before the lightning strike, or if the "signal meter" readings are significantly different now(lower) from any particular station than was the case immediately before the lightning strike, that might tell you something, or perhaps at least give you a good idea ... although, then again it might not, if say, reception of WKEF-DT+WBDT-DT or the Cincy stations were barely marginal before the strike(just enough signals), and then the antenna was moved a bit, or more leaves on the trees/etc. added just enough extra attenuation for the signals to drop just below threshold, or if somehow it "lost" the channel tuning info for the Cincy stations .....

Per your list --- The only stations you are missing from Dayton are WKEF-DT 51 (remaps to 22.1 - ABC HD and 22.2 "The Tube" music videos), and WBDT-DT 18 (remaps to 26.1 - WB HD). As you probably know, at the time of your old list, several stations in the area weren't sending channel remapping info(hence the 51.1/51.2 from WKEF-DT for instance instead of 22.1+22.2), and for instance, WKRC-DT Cincinnati isn't currently sending a 12.2 SD multicast, and what was at one time an SD digital multicast of WKEF analog(51.2 on your old list), was not being sent for a long time(since around early 05 when they started sending PSIP channel remapping info), now it is "The Tube" music videos instead.

WKEF-DT+WBDT-DT might be the weaker of the six Dayton HD/digital stations. Given that reception conditions can change due to various factors(and antenna may need some adjustement), it's possible something along those lines might be why you're not seeing those.

Not saying it isn't possible, however I wouldn't think it very likely you'd be able to receive reliable reception from Both the Dayton+Cincinnati stations from Lebanon with One antenna heading, especially with a narrow-beamwidth/high gain directional antenna such as CM4248. Which IMO is probably an excellent choice for UHF reception for you BTW, although you'd probably acheive better results with it aimed at either Dayton or Cincinnati, and for only either the Dayton or Cincinnati stations.

Can't figure out a really good way to say this -- but, Another thing I might wonder about, is whether or not there may be some problem with some of the channels showing up due to a "EPG issue" or a "channel tuning" issue. For instance, I know that many of the DirecTV+OTA HD receivers use the Guide info off the sateillte for the channel remapping info instead of the info being sent by the station, and also, that on some of those receiver's what local stations show up in the guide depends upon what zip codes you punch in (such as a Dayton+Cincinnati area zip if you want to see those. However, OTOH, if you were seeing both of the Cincy+Dayton stations per your 2004 post(and some without the channel remapping, such as 51.1/41.1), sounds like it's at least probably possible for you to tune to say, 51 (or 51.3 - I know the 3 seems weird, but that's what is being used instead of 51.1 without PSIP/channel remapping) manually and see at least some sort of signal meter reading from WKEF-DT, as well as perhaps do a new auto channel scan and "find" those stations again.



And out of all those, the only HD programming I saw was on 7-1 (NCIS). But, that might be normal for tonight's programming (minus the hockey snaffu).


I didn't check last night but you should have also been getting PBS HD channel from 16.6. Again, didn't check last night, but it's pretty much allways there between 6pm and 6am every night.


I sent in the Sony HD300 to SONY's official repair service and they wouldn't repair it because of the surge/lightning and cited it as "IC 360 and Modem Circuit Blown Out/Unable to Repair".


I don't know what IC360 does, however, if that's the only thing that was damaged seems like it's very possible the OTA should still be working. Sounds like maybe the "lightning" may have gotten in through the phone line? I recall a friend who was a claims adjuster for many years telling me most of the claims he worked involving electronic equipment damaged by "lightning" were caused by lightning were caused by via "landlines", such as phone lines.


Not to mention NCIS on 7-1 was coming in fine in HD, but sure didn't look up to quality.


Hmm ... I also didn't check NCIS last night to see what it looked like, however I expect it was probably fine ... In which case, It probably really should have been fine quality wise for you as well -- the only exception perhaps being unless the signal is *very* marginal reception condition, which may result in pixelization, occasional on screen data loss, or complete audio/video dropouts .... Otherwise, there shouldn't be a quality issue I wouldn't think unless perhaps there is something wrong ......


I'm thinking my HD300 might be trash now. :(


I hope not, but that of course Could be a possibility .... I wouldn't think the balun(matching transformer) on the antenna(so you can hook up 75 ohm coax to the 300ohm terminals of the antenna) would have been damaged by the lightning strike(if it had, then the OTA portion of the receiver is probably very likely "damaged" as well(and very likely wouldn't be working at all), since the current would have had to pass through it to get to the antenna) but that's the only other thing I could think of ....



However, I haven't been up in the Attic to check on my Channel Master antenna since I put it up there. I guess it could have moved around or something....


That, or something similar might be worth a shot to check out ... I'd think Probably the best thing you could do however would be to try a different receiver to see how the OTA reception is from it -- That would probably tell you right away if there is anything "wrong" with the OTA portion of your current receiver ... although keep in mind some receivers can perform a little better, or a little different than others, and, when there are marginal reception conditions, one model of receiver may pull in a station and decode it just fine where a different model wouldn't, due to differences in the design of the Receiver's front-end, or multipath handling capabilities/etc ...

I noticed Arena Football is HD from NBC HD on WLWT-DT Cincinnati this afternoon(which surprised me a bit, as I Don't think I've seen that before), it's SD 4x3 feed on WDTN-DT(2.1) Dayton.

So, at 3:06PM, I called WDTN-DT newsroom and passed along the info, they transferred me to someone else who they said would be able to take care of the problem. He said he would pass the message along to engineering. I also mentioned the missing HD for the Hockey last night.

Still SD from WDTN-DT at 3:29:27pm, its Still HD from WLWT-DT.

Update 5:10pm - Still SD from WDTN-DT, HD from WLWT-DT ....


If you ever notice anything not in HD that should be, just call up the stations newsroom and ask them to pass a message to the control room to switch to the HD feed, it helps the entire community out .... .

Absolutely, and it helps the station out as well. On occasion, It can probably sometimes also help if there is more than one person who calls as well .....

In some cases it's probably also often good to have info concering another source of HD from the network involved to make sure HD is available(which is why I sometimes post here when a Cincy station has HD and Dayton doesn't or vice versa, for the folks who don't know if they aren't receiving a affiliate from another market) , or that there isn't a network related problem/etc, or to check/ask in AVS programming area to see if anyone elsewhere is getting HD.

It's also good to have that info in case you are told on the phone the HD isn't available from the network(it's happened before, including to me), as you'll know better and be able to provide accurate info to the folks at the station .....

Of course, perhaps of most importance, it is also good to have another source of HD (such as from the Cincinnati stations) so if it doesn't help to call the station that's missing HD, you can still watch HD .....



and unless there is a major problem it typically gets switched within 5 minutes or so.


Well, it depends. The switching is set up "automatically" for some stations, in some cases "programmed" before hand, and, for instance master control for for WDTN is controlled from a facility in Indianapolis(again unless something has changed recently).

Therefore, for instance, since WLWT-DT is having no problem providing NBC HD currently for Arena Football, and since WDTN-DT was passing through HD for SNL last night, I suspect WDTN-DT isn't having any "major problems", even though it has been [update] over 2 hours since my call, and there's still SD from WDTN-DT, NBC HD from WLWT-DT ....

I suspect WDTN-DT isn't having any "major problems", even though it has been [update] over 2 hours since my call, and there's still SD from WDTN-DT, NBC HD from WLWT-DT ....

WDTN is typically the exception as I've found as oftentimes i have to reiterate to them several times that I'm watching OTA and not via TWC and that i SHOULD be seeing HD. They probably have several calls from TWC viewers who see the HD logo and call them up wondering where their HD is as well.

WDTN is typically the exception as I've found as oftentimes i have to reiterate to them several times that I'm watching OTA and not via TWC and that i SHOULD be seeing HD. They probably have several calls from TWC viewers who see the HD logo and call them up wondering where their HD is as well.

Yes, what I was trying to get at was, if it doesn't get switched to HD, folks shouldn't "give up" on calling the next time around, as the more folks that call when HD is missing(and should be there) the better, IMO ...

It's been my experience that when stations aren't used to getting such calls when HD switching problems occur, it can sometimes be difficult to get your message through, due to folks answering the phone whom may be "unfamiliar" with the issue. As one example The first time I called WKEF in Feb 2002 for HD for 2002 Winter Olympics(which was granted, only the 2nd or 3rd day they were on the air), I was told by the person who answered the phone that there was "nobody there who could do anything about it" ... Yet, after a 15 minute conversation about HD and OTA, they did manage to switch to HD feed ....

Over the almost 5 years now I've been doing this, I've been successful probably about 75% of the time concerning stations switching to HD within a few minutes of the call, on some occasions we've even found it useful for several folks to call them. On a few occasions when I believe I was talking to the MCO at WHIO, I've even seen it switch to HD when I was still on the phone.

BTW, I didn't get the Q&A session about how I'm getting HD with WDTN yesterday, probably in part because others have went through this with them, and perhaps also because I mentioned I was getting HD from WLWT-DT, Cincinnati ....

Guess our message got across.

2-1 WDTN-DT has HDTV on. Looks good.

Surround 5.1 work too as of now.

Grabbing a drink and will report back after the first period if I notice anything interesting.

btw: 2-2 looks horrible, but is in 16:9, guess it's SD...

btw: 2-2 looks horrible, but is in 16:9, guess it's SD... That's been mentioned here before. I guess the consolation is that they're sure as hell not "stealing" from 2-1 !! :) Well, they are just a tiny bit it appears. WDTN's analog channel looks better than 2-2 to my eyes.

CSI:Miami looked fabulous on 7-1 also.

Had to flip over during a hockey commercial and check on it.

Guess our message got across.
.

It did. I sent a note to WDTN's CE about it as well ... Here's a portion of his reply from this afternoon, don't think he'd mind if I pass this portion of it along :

quote:

Jeff,

Very nice to hear from you ....... I hope you are well.

I contacted the Indy Hub concerning the HD on Hockey and football. They will add it in the future for the automation.

Sorry this note is short, but I have a bunch of projects ongoing .....

Regards,

Jim Atkinson
WDTN

:end quote

Anyone else having issues with HD OTA tonight? NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox are all showing at 41% strength when usually they are all at around 90%, and I'm getting nothing. If its just me, then "something" happened to my antenna, which is safely tucked in the attic and has been doing fine for the past several months. Also odd is that WB is fine and each of these stations is stuck right at 41. Anyone else having these problems? Just in time for the Stanely Cup Finale!!!!

2-1 WDTN-DT is coming in fine for me via OTA with good signal strength showing on the Sony HD300.

Picture quality is being highly debated in the "HDTV Programming" forum.

Great hockey game, going into OT tied up at 3-3.

It is a great game, but hard to watch back in SD! It's a shame they stuck so many games on OLN and prevented the casual fans from getting into the playoffs.

I guess maybe a roach pooped on my UHF array and knocked it over. I'll climb up there tomorrow and check it out. I just checked my UHF analog channels and they are crap too. Thanks for the info.

It is a great game, but hard to watch back in SD! It's a shame they stuck so many games on OLN and prevented the casual fans from getting into the playoffs.

You're lucky you can watch it in SD, we don't even get it in Cinci. "OLN averaged 611,000 households for Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Finals on Monday. That's fewer households than ESPN2 drew for an Arizona-Northwestern college women's softball game Monday night" -FARK.com I really enjoy hockey, but have been unable to get into it this year due to lack of coverage in the playoffs

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2006-06-06-hiestand-nba_x.htm

I haven't gotten to see much on OLN (just when visiting family). I meant that I was still recieving NBC's analog channel, just my UHF channels were out last night. The finals and the Buffalo-Carolina series are great examples of the new NHL, real fast and a ton of fun.

Anyway, I'm going to head up to the attic today and see wha't up with my antenna. I'm thinking of getting a remote controlled rotor for the antenna (a Terk HDTVa). Can anyone recommend a good, affordable remote controlled rotor and a place to buy it? I don't have a problem pulling out the duct tape and some ply-wood to make a fit if necessary.

Thanks!

Lowes has (or at least had) the Channel Master rotor & control. About $90, if that meets your definition of "good, affordable".

Carl

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9514769

Anyone know if this will be on Time Warner for Dayton or Cincinnati??? With as big as TWC is, they had BETTER be one of the 75 affiliates!!!

I am pretty sure TWC is #3 or 4 for cable..

Cablevision, Comcast, and maybe Cox are the only ones that are larger - and maybe TWC is #2.. I know Comcast is the largest..

Time Warner Cable Has added Starz-HD & Cinemax-HD in Austin & San Antonio, ask them about your area receiving these channels.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/sanantonio/programming/updates.html

Comcast, 21 million
TW, 10+ million
Cox, 7 million
Cablevision, 3 million

All of these numbers are from each company's website.

*Warning, fairly long rambling post*

I wonder if these outlets will also pick up HD NFL Network.

Anyway, I finally dropped Time Warner. I got tired of paying $103 for when I could pay half of that if I switched to Dish Network (if I signed up for the DishHD Bronze package). I ended up signing up for Dish Network's DishHD Silver package which includes pretty much every channel I had from Time Warner, but gives me more HD (Voom 15 channels, ESPN2HD, NFL HD, HGHD, etc.). I am now getting the local HD channels OTA, although my crappy RadioShack antenna does not work as good as I'd like it to (I have a Silver Sensor on order). As far as quality of the HD, during the time that I had both TWC and Dish I could not see a difference. I was flipping between the ESPNHD Sunday Night Baseball game and HDNet's Eminem concert, both looked identical to my eyes (I have seen a significant difference when comparing TWC to DirecTV, however).

As far as installation goes, there were plusses and minuses. The first installer (Saturday) came out and bitched because I wanted him to run all new coax. He was not an actual employee of the installation company (Digital Dish), but instead was a contracter who paid for all his cable, his truck, and tools (and was not the most personable person I've ever met). I told him I wanted to keep my cable runs (I'm going to the lifeline tier), he did not seem happy. He then did not have the correct 2nd box (he brought a VIP622 MPEG4 HD-DVR but did not bring the SD-DVR 625 with him), so he did not complete the coax runs. I will say that he put the Dish in a great spot for me though. It is totally hidden on the back side of my roof, you can only see it from the Northwest side of my house.

On Monday a different installer came out (actual employee of Digital Dish) and he was great. Very personable, had no problem running the cable to the last room, and spent the time to make sure I was a happy customer. He also told me that they were not allowed to use the TWC coax and that the guy never should have been unhappy with running new cable. I believe the first installer is going to be docked some pay for not totally completing the install.

All in all, after 3 full days of service, I am happy. I got to watch NBCHD's coverage of the US Open and the NHL Finals last night. The HD quality of the national HD networks look to be very close to the same if not the same as Time Warner, something that was of big concern to me. The ViP622 HD-DVR software is very nice. Once I adjusted to it I decided I liked it better than the Passport software. The playback of DVR'd material is much smoother than on any TWC DVR I've ever used. I have not had much chance to play around with the SD-DVR 625 yet (my wife will use that more than I will), but she seems to like it. A huge plus to both DVR's is that they control 2 different TVs (second TV by UHF remote). My wife DVR's her shows and can watch them in the living room or in the bed room, I can watch my HD-DVR recordings in my home theater or my office.

Sorry for rambling on, I just wanted to give the scoop of my findings. I am quite happy to be basically a TWC free household (save $7.33 a month for lifeline service).

I thought you were very against paying a few hundred dollars for the HD-DVR and then still not owing it ?? What swayed you ??

I thought you were very against paying a few hundred dollars for the HD-DVR and then still not owing it ?? What swayed you ??

It evened out. $199 lease fee, $200 in programming credits.

Dish gave you credits even before you were a customer ?? Or was this a "cable buy-back" type deal ?? I also thought the HD-DVR was $299, not $199.

Dish gave you credits even before you were a customer ?? Or was this a "cable buy-back" type deal ?? I also thought the HD-DVR was $299, not $199.

Their current deal gives new HD customers $200 in credit ($20 a month for 10 months), the lease fee for the VIP-622 is now $199 (purchase price is $499). I figured that at best I could get $300 on Ebay when I am done with using the device so it wasn't worth buying (you still have to pay the same fees whether you own the STB or lease it from Dish).

FYI, Notice PSIP is apparently currently MIA from ThinkTV's digital stations. Think it's been that way since the Storms moved through yesterday.

Until they get it fixed, some OTA HD receivers may show them on 58.3~58.7(WPTD-DT), and 28.3~28.7(WPTO-DT, transmits from Cincinnati WXIX tower) rather than the 16.x and 14.x psip remapped virtual channels. Some receivers which only update the VC info upon rescans(well, unless you do an auto channel scan while they aren't sending PSIP Virtual channel remapping info), or which utilize channel mapping info from E* or D* may still see them on 14.x and 16.x even though they are not currently sending proper PSIP.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9514769

Anyone know if this will be on Time Warner for Dayton or Cincinnati??? With as big as TWC is, they had BETTER be one of the 75 affiliates!!!

The press release states that the NFL network has been added onto the "expanded basic" level of service on all of these affiliates. I imagine this is the sticking point in the negotation with TWC. LIkewise TWC has not added ESPNU onto its service because it refuses to put it on the "expanded basic" level of service. DTV didn't add OLN because of this.

NFL, ESPNU, OLN, etc. all want to be on the "expanded basic" level of service to get the best market penetration. My guess is that TWC won't do it because the per subscriber fees for the NFL network can't be recouped without raising rates for the expanded basic level of service (which TWC feels it cannot do --otherwise even more people would switch to cheaper sat.)

With "expanded basic" or "classic" at over $50 once taxes and fees are added, it's bad enough already.

By the way, in case anyone wants to drop down to a non-digital "package" and the local reps won't allow it, start over and choose the option to downgrade your service. You'll be routed to an outside (non-TW) group who can do it. You can tell them to drop you to "standard" service and that you want to keep your HD set-top. Initially they'll probably balk and tell you you can't have the digital box "because you don't have digital service". You can tell them to ask other reps or a supervisor and that should clear the issue. The other is to downgrade to DigiPic 1000 and drop the "Value" tier. That will effectively get you the standard service, channels 2-78 + 707-756. Because you have the box you'll get the music channels, On Demand (probably only for channels in the 2-78 range though), etc, etc. Big downside here is they ding you hard for the HD box and worse for the DVR. The box by itself will be $7.95/mo and DVR service will be $9.95/mo. The more you order from them, the more they discount these items otherwise.

In some cases, especially if you have older, grandfathered rates, you might gain little savings by making any changes. If you do change, you move to the new, higher rates.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9514769

Anyone know if this will be on Time Warner for Dayton or Cincinnati??? With as big as TWC is, they had BETTER be one of the 75 affiliates!!!

According to this story:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6344756.html?display=Breaking+News

...the new agreements are with "small and midsized operators." Based on Hall's figures, I very much doubt that TWC is included. So frustrating.

Phil

Another reason to leave TWC.... I not only have NFL Network, but they also have NFL Network HD.

As a sports fan, I really think Time Warner is about the worst option out there. If you want the NFL Sunday ticket DirecTV is the way to go, otherwise DirecTV and Dish are about the same in terms of sports programming. Time Warner is lagging way behind with no ESPN2HD, ESPNU, or NFL Network/HD. I am of the firm belief that Time Warner will not pick up any channel not owned by their parent company at the launch, but instead waits 1 to 2 years a minimum to pick it up... pretty crappy if you ask me, especially after the profits they turned as a company last year.

Sorry to post again, I wonder what TWC's plan is for this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7871424&&#post7871424

Will they add another HD channel or just drop one off their package?

update to previous post ...

Notice PSIP from WPTD-DT/WPTO-DT is working properly again(currently). Channel remapping to 16.x/14.x and EPG info via PSIP is working fine now.

6/28/2006

Would it make any sense that I can pick up the analog channel 45 (FOX), but can't even get a sniff of 45.1?

I tried to get it during 8-10pm when "HOUSE" was supposed to be on in high-definition. Couldn't even get channel 45.1 to lock on my Sony HD300. Kept saying channel cannot be found. I'd think if I was getting a decent picture on 45 analog I'd get something on 45.1 no?

Still trying to diagnose my either partially fried Sony HD300, or other problems.

Thanks!

Picking up the analog station is no guarantee that you'll get the digital station.

I did have House on, or part of it, last night and it sure didn't look to be in HD to me. It was widescreen (no, my TV nor set-top wasn't stretching it) though.

Weren't some of the older episodes of House done in "Faux Widescreen" SD?

I know there are a lot of complaints about poor PQ on the latest ones though.

I did have House on, or part of it, last night and it sure didn't look to be in HD to me. It was widescreen (no, my TV nor set-top wasn't stretching it) though.

Hi. I was just looking around and noticed your post. I watched House last evening from my local Fox station here in Indy and it was great. In fact I think House is one of the better looking HD shows, especially on Fox. It sounds like your local affiliate might have had an issue last evening.

Steve

I'd think if I was getting a decent picture on 45 analog I'd get something on 45.1 no?


Generally that is true, however various reception issues which may potentially be involved, such as multipath can be *very* frequency(channel) specific.

WRGT-DT(digital/HD) transmits on channel 30, WRGT analog transmits on channel 45. In order for your receiver to remap the digital and show a signal reading on virtual channel 45.1, it needs to have enough/good enough signal from the station for the receiver to achieve a lock, and therefore receive the channel remapping info(along with decoding the video/audio) sent by the station on channel 30.

Many, if not most receivers have some sort of way for you to somehow manually Tune to the actual channel of transmission(in this case 30) (or manually individually "scan" a single "actual channel of transmission" while a signal meter is on screen) to allow you to adjust your antenna while looking at the meter. This is necessary in cases when the antenna isn't adjusted such that a full "signal lock" isn't acheived on certian stations during the time you perform a "auto channel scan"/etc.

The actual channels used for transmission are listed in the "frequency assignment" column for your www.antennaweb.org results.

Hi. I was just looking around and noticed your post. I watched House last evening from my local Fox station here in Indy and it was great. In fact I think House is one of the better looking HD shows, especially on Fox. It sounds like your local affiliate might have had an issue last evening.

Steve

Hi, Steve. FWIW, During the short time I was tuned to WRGT-DT during HD "House" last night, I didn't notice any problems or PQ issue.

Suppose it does (probably per "artistic license" or something similar)seem to have a "grainy", and perhaps sort of "flat" look to it given the general "color tone" of many of the scenes I've seen from that show. Perhaps something along those lines is what some folks may be noticing about it.

Weren't some of the older episodes of House done in "Faux Widescreen" SD? The episode from last night was about a father and son who had the same infection (???). As I recall, that was a newer episode, from this season, so it *should* have been in HD.

So, just curious -- How are the Lima OTA folks doing? Has WLIO-DT increased power yet?

Not really related to "local" programming, but was sure neat to watch the space shuttle launch today (July 4th) on HDnet via Directv.

Picture quality was pretty darn good IMHO.

That's all.

thought I'd post this info given the "current situation" for all the Dayton area Low power stations for those that might be interested. As you may know, FCC recently adopted rules for Low power stations to go digital. Follows is current info on Dayton area Low power stations digital filings with FCC.(Since I'm not as familiar with the LP situation in Lima, probably best for someone in that area to post about those).

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Digital Companion channels - FCC opened a filing window in late June to allow current Low power analog stations to seek a 2nd, digital companion channel for use during the transistion to digital. Which I believe Means that at some point in the future, a LP station which does seek, and is granted a 2nd channel for digital, would have to shut down their analog return one of their channels. Note that the 2/09 analog shut off date does not apply to low power analog stations, and a shut off date hasn't been published yet for LP stations. LP stations of course are not allowed to cause interference to other services.

The following Dayton area LP station filed an application with FCC to seek a digital companion channel(note - this was a bit difficult to dig up, given they have these listed on FCC site only as "new" applications, not by callsigns - had to reference file numbers, and facility ID #'s(such as existing facility ID as stated in the application itself) to find them) :

W20CL (TBN Low power translator - facility #68026), Springfiled, Ohio filed an application(File # BSFDTT-20060630CRP ) in June for a low power digital companion channel station on channel 24, at 15 KW ERP. The facility ID # for the new LP digital station is currently 168574.

Here is the info from FCC's TV query :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=168574&list=0&dist=65&dlat2=39&mlat2=35&slat2=1&dlon2=84&mlon2=24&slon2=46&size=9

The application itself doesn't seem available(as it has been with the Cincy stations which have recently filed for digital companion channel), but here is some info on it which matches the analog station's facility ID # :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1138739

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Digital Flash cut applications - In the FCC LP rules, this allows stations to transistion to digital on their current channel assignment, and I believe these can be filed at any time. Obviusly, when a LP station goes digital via flash cutting, they have to shut their analog station down.

There are currently NO digital flash cut applications for Dayton area LP stations. Since WWRD-LP 55+WRCX-LP 40 haven't filed anything for low power digital yet, one might assume at one point they may file for digital flash cut. Note that WWRD-LP (tower between Centerville+bellbrook), *does* currently have a analog construction permit from FCC to move to channel 32.

-------------------------

Other - W66AQ :

This one seems a bit out of the ordinary, perhaps. Sinclair owned analog LP Translator, W66AQ (supposedly retransmits WSTR 64 Cicinnati on Channel 66 from a dayton transmitter - I don't see them here, I've asked on this thread previously but it seems noone can seem to confirm whether or not the are actually currently on the air) -- has filed an application recently whose overall purpose I think may be either one of the following :

Either :

#1). eventually allow them to "repurpose" WKEF 22 analog facilities(antenna/etc) in order to eventually operate W66AQ as digital on Channel 22 - I assume meaning post-transistion, after WKEF 22 analog signal is shut off in February 2009. Note - In which case, this application for a analog CP for W66AQ on 22 might just be "red tape", and they might need to specifiy an analog CP first, before they can file an application to flash cut to digital/etc .... this stuff sure gets confusing at times!

#2). To allow them to repuropose WKEF 22 analog facilities so they can operate W66AQ as ANALOG on channel 22 after analog shut off of WKEF 22, perhaps in order to provide some analog service to OTA viewers with only NTSC tuners as will be possible from LP stations after full service "hard shut off date", until such time everyone has transistioned to digital, or they are "requred" to shut analog LP translators off(there is currently no such requirement I know of) ... And, a LP station(analog or digital) using WKEF 22's current stick/antenna might certianly get out quite well ...

#3). Some other possibility I haven't thought about ....

In any case, I do note they have made some amendendments to the applications, I haven't looked at the amended attached documents, yet. See The top entry/application for W66AQ "channel 22" here from FCC TV query :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=W66AQ&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

Here is the application itself(note the PDF files available via links near bottom of document is also of interest concerning what they are wanting to do - especially the document labeled "Description
W66AQ - COMPREHENSIVE TECHNICAL DOCUMENT - MARCH 30, 2006" :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1125566&Service=TX&Form_id=346&Facility_id=11203

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Update/additions - Almost forgot about these LP translators for WPTD :

W17AA - Celina, OH - Translator for WPTD(ThinkTV16)/Greater Dayton Public TV - Filed for on Channel digital Flash cut - 8KW ERP, DA - 447FT AGL, 1332FT ASL.

W63AH - Maplewood, OH - Translator for WPTD(ThinkTV//Greater Dayton Public TV - - No applications on file for digital as of yet which I can find.

NiteWatchman: your posts are extremely cool. Your knowledge on this subject seems to be very high. Keep up the good work.

And, my new H20 (HD directv box) and AT9 installation went fine. I'm once again getting all the channels I used to be able to receive via OTA. So, I guess the problem was that "partially" fried Sony HD300 box. I'm actually getting more channels then before. Picking up some stuff out of Indiana.

Thanks for all the great info in this thread guys!

R willis,

Thanks for the kind comments. Glad my contributions here are of some interest to some.

Personally, I actually get a lot more out of reading than posting, which is why when possible I feel compelled to at least attempt to contribute something of interest ...

BTW -- concerning Indiana -- If you're referring to WKOI-DT(TBN - 5 SD subchannels, 43.1~43.5 remapped), their community of license is, in fact Richmond, Indiana, however they actually transmit from a tower located between Trenton and Oxford, Ohio - which interestingly enough is "inside" Cincinnati DMA, but they are considered to be in Dayton Market, as Is I believe Richmond. If I recall correclty, The "KOI" in the call letters stand for "Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana" .... as their service area covers portions of all three states(moreso SW Ohio and East-central Indiana, however). the analog station transmits on channel 43, the digital on channel 39.

I'm also assumming you are using OTA with the new setup, as I could be wrong, but don't think D* is offering Cincinnati HD locals via the dish, yet -- From Lebanon, think you'd be in Cincy DMA, in which case, when they do start offering them(thought I'd heard Sepetmber or later this year, but not sure), I'd think you would be eligable to receive only Cincy locals via the dish. Don't know what their timetable is for carrying Dayton HD stations LiL.

I'm also assumming you are using OTA with the new setup, as I could be wrong, but don't think D* is offering Cincinnati HD locals via the dish, yet -- From Lebanon, think you'd be in Cincy DMA, in which case, when they do start offering them(thought I'd heard Sepetmber or later this year, but not sure), I'd think you would be eligable to receive only Cincy locals via the dish. Don't know what their timetable is for carrying Dayton HD stations LiL.

Yeah, still using OTA also. Using the Channel Master 4248 (http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4248.jpg) in the attic.

Correct, no Cincy or Dayton HD locals via D* as of yet. I went ahead and had them install the new AT9 dish though, which is required for them. The tech support at D* (not the first idiots you call) said 3-4 months on the HD locals for the Cincy market. Yep, like you said, I'm in the Cincy market and currently get the SD Cincy locals via Directv ($4.99) and the HDs will be no additional cost, so why not. :)

I've got the HD directv package now also. (HD-TNT, HD-ESPN, HD-ESPN2, HD-HDNET, etc). It's not great, but they gave me a deal for 50% price for 6 months with no obligation.

The more HD the better!!! :D :D

TWC customers with SA 8000HD or 8300HD set-tops

If anyone experienced serious, i.e. stopped working, issues with their HDMI outputs, even when converted to DVI at their TV, with Passport .051, has it been "fixed" if you're updated to .066 ?? I was asked for input on this by my contact from TWC.

Along those same line, are the firewire ports on the 8300HD now functional as required by law (functional = ability to work with a DVHS deck)?

If anyone experienced serious, i.e. stopped working, issues with their HDMI outputs,

My HDMI connection has always worked flawlessly (as far as video goes).

EDIT: Whoops, this is the Dayton thread. Please disregard.

Did Dish provide you with an antenna to pick up the local channels in digital ?? If not, did you have the option to get one from them ?? Last I recall you're using a Silver Sensor.... If I switch back to Dish, I'll likely invest in a "real" outdoor antenna.

I'm contemplating going back to Dish. My wife didn't say too much about having to pay $200 for the HD-DVR either. She didn't say "do it" either though. We really like having the DVR in the bedroom but more so want to get rid of it for $$$ reasons. My satellite-buy-back deal ends in August, I believe, and we plan to drop down to standard service, but keep the HD-DVR. Like I mentioned above, that DVR will cost us almost $20 a month alone on top of the $45-50 for standard service.

Just FYI...

I recieved a mail flyer from AT&T. They are offering a new DSL/DISH DVR package. Wasn't a lot of info, but seemed interesting. They gave it some special name and its not something available from DISH without AT&T DSL (I think). Sounded like there was more PPV/Pay-on-demand type services. It also allows you to control and interact with your DVR online. Sounded pretty neat and new to me, any experience out there with this service, or something like it?

I think I'm still planning on staying just OTA until HD becomes the norm as opposed to the exception with satellite and cable.

You're probably referring to something like "Homezone". Although I have SBC DSL, having switched from TW very recently, I'm not a fan of combined billing, which is typically req'd to get the best rates. Even then, last time I checked on getting Dish from SBC, the savings was something like $3-4/month. Hardly worth it, especially if it just adds a middle-man to everything.

Also, what I read about this deal mentioned nothing about HD service.

Yes, I think thats what they called it, has it been around for a while? I was just wondering how different it is from standard DVR/Tivo service and if it would be a good option once it does go HD.

I'll take the $3-4 savings a month, but my real interest was if the Home Zone plan is in fact different and superior to the standard plan available through Dish alone.

I will be moving back to the University of Dayton in the fall with my brand new HDTV, and I am wondering what kind of HD content I can expect.

Since I live on campus, I get the crappy cable service they provide. If I want HD, I need to go antenna. Outdoor antennae are pretty much out of the question, since I can't imagine the university being too happy about me installing one. Therefore, I need to go with an indoor model.

According to antennaweb, I am within 5 miles for PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and WB, all of which are labelled as digital broadcasts on that site. I will be in a second story room on the north side of campus. Can I expect reasonably good reception of these six channels? Do I need to get a top-of-the-line antenna for such short range? Thanks in advance!

I am just east of where you'll be at UD and I use a Terk HDTVi antenna, currently located in my attic. I get all channels including the religious station that broadcasts from Trenton (20+ miles away).

I'd definitely start with smaller antennas, but keep the receipts !

I am just east of where you'll be at UD and I use a Terk HDTVi antenna, currently located in my attic. I get all channels including the religious station that broadcasts from Trenton (20+ miles away).

I'd definitely start with smaller antennas, but keep the receipts !

Any chance the televangelists are in high-def? ;)

Thanks for the quick reply; I can't wait to get there and check it out :)

Any chance the televangelists are in high-def? Have to admit, I haven't watched that channel much.... :D

I live in Celina and I was wondering if anyone in this area has had any luck receiving any of the Toledo channels and if you have what is your setup. I just moved down to this area and always being a Browns fan am going to have a hard time sitting through Bengals games on Sundays. I've been told that Lima broadcasts Browns games but they're not in HD which I've become accustomed to watching.

According to Mapquest, Celina and Toledo are 115 miles apart.... I'd say that's a long-shot, pun intended. WLIO *still* isn't doing HD ?? I guess that's one downside of being a small, privately-owned station (limited capital). Any chance Ft Wayne stations carry the games ??

Did Dish provide you with an antenna to pick up the local channels in digital ?? If not, did you have the option to get one from them ?? Last I recall you're using a Silver Sensor.... If I switch back to Dish, I'll likely invest in a "real" outdoor antenna.

I got a silver sensor, if Dish offers an antenna with the dish they didn't tell me about it on the phone.

I'm contemplating going back to Dish. My wife didn't say too much about having to pay $200 for the HD-DVR either. She didn't say "do it" either though. We really like having the DVR in the bedroom but more so want to get rid of it for $$$ reasons. My satellite-buy-back deal ends in August, I believe, and we plan to drop down to standard service, but keep the HD-DVR. Like I mentioned above, that DVR will cost us almost $20 a month alone on top of the $45-50 for standard service.

After 6 weeks of service I am still pleased. The HD channels look great (even the Voom channels that are not at full 1080i resolution look good, I believe due to Dish keeping the bit rate up, something DirecTV doesn't do). I think you will be pleased with the DVR as well, once I got used to it I liked the functionality a little better than the 8300HD (it is faster).

For those with Adelphia wondering about the switch-over to TWC.

http://www.twcusoon.com/

Doesn't really answer a whole lot though.

Any chance Ft Wayne stations carry the games ??

Ft. Wayne carries the games in HD but they primarily cover Colts games. I also signed up with Dish Network about a year ago and still have another year for my committment so Sunday Ticket isn't an option either for the Browns. Oh well I guess I'll just keep trying.

I thought I would open this issue up for discussion. "The Tube" has been available on 22-2 for a couple of months now as a subchannel. Has anyone noticed a reduction in picture quality on ABC-HD material broadcast on 22-1?

I ask this because there have been times that I have noticed some pixelization on 22-1 -- a couple of times during the world cup and then just last night on that hospital show as I was browsing through the OTA channels. Could we be seeing a reduction in picture quality because of "The Tube?"

Normally I just stick to TWC 722. Although I don't watch much network programming, I have not noticed any pixelization on 722 through TWC. Does anyone know if TWC is getting a feed from WKEF before it is being jammed into the 19.3 mbps stream along with "The Tube?" As I haven't sen much pixelization on 22-1 (since I don't watch network TV much during the summer), pixelization could be happening on both.

If we re seeing a reduction in picture quality, I would hope WKEF would disable "The Tube" for ABC HD football, including probably ABC HD's biggest football game of the year for its Ohio audience-- the Ohio State vs. Texas game.

As a side note, I have heard that 19 in Cincinnati, which also broadcasts "The Tube," does not have this issue because of how the Fox splicer works -- in other words, "The Tube" is limited only to the unused bandwidth of Fox HD programming.

you mean the "Tub" - :) on their psip info it lists it as the "Tub" - or at least it did :)

As far as quality - I have not watched enough of WKEF to tell.. but what I can say is that the Tube on WKEF looks better than the WXIX version.. when WXIX is rolling with the HD, the Tube is damn near unwatchable :) - which is a good thing

Over in the hdtv reception forum, I asked about an antenna that I saw on a neighbor's house and ended up taking and posting a picture of it. It was identified as one used for wireless pay-tv. Today, there's no such service available that I know of. Has there ever been ?? I've only lived in Dayton around 10 years....

I will be moving back to the University of Dayton in the fall with my brand new HDTV, and I am wondering what kind of HD content I can expect.

Since I live on campus, I get the crappy cable service they provide. If I want HD, I need to go antenna. Outdoor antennae are pretty much out of the question, since I can't imagine the university being too happy about me installing one. Therefore, I need to go with an indoor model.

According to antennaweb, I am within 5 miles for PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and WB, all of which are labelled as digital broadcasts on that site. I will be in a second story room on the north side of campus. Can I expect reasonably good reception of these six channels? Do I need to get a top-of-the-line antenna for such short range? Thanks in advance!


Aaron,

When I was at UD, I was able to get my Cincinnati stations (WLWT-DT, WKRC-DT, WXIX-DT, WCET-DT and sometimes WCPO-DT) by placing a RadioShack VU-190-XR antenna in the attic. THat antenna is most likely way overkill for you, but if you are in one of the houses with an attic, consider that as your best option.

On the other hand, I'm currently on the north side of Cincinnati and can get all of the Cincinnati stations plus most of the Dayton digitals with no drop outs with an indoor antenna in a second floor bedroom.

So the best advice would probably be to try the indoor, see how well it works, and then if it's not good enough for you, maybe upgrade to something larger in the attic.

I live in Celina and I was wondering if anyone in this area has had any luck receiving any of the Toledo channels and if you have what is your setup. I just moved down to this area and always being a Browns fan am going to have a hard time sitting through Bengals games on Sundays.

I'm in the same boat trying to get Browns games. Last year, I put up a modestly sized antenna (http://www.antennasdirect.com/43XG_digital_antenna.html) with an amplifier and managed to pull in WBNS-DT from Columbus, which often shows Browns games and will be carrying Browns pre-season games this year. It looks like Celina is closer to Columbus than Toledo, but you'd still probably need a heckuva setup to have any chance at getting WBNS. If you get Dayton stations, you'll actually get 11 regular-season Browns games this year already, because Dayton stations show the Browns when there's no conflict with the Bengals. I have a schedule that breaks down which weeks the Browns will be on TV in Dayton... if you want a copy, PM me.

Phil

If you get Dayton stations, you'll actually get 11 regular-season Browns games this year already, because Dayton stations show the Browns when there's no conflict with the Bengals.
Phil

Wonderful, that means us Bengal fans will have to get a crappy game 9 of the 17 weeks (most of which probably won't be in HD)... I like it when their AFC/NFC schedules are on the same weeks and the games are all at 1.

Last year, I put up a modestly sized antenna (http://www.antennasdirect.com/43XG_digital_antenna.html) You're in Oakwood, as I recall. How did you end up mounting that antenna ??

Wonderful, that means us Bengal fans will have to get a crappy game 9 of the 17 weeks (most of which probably won't be in HD)... I like it when their AFC/NFC schedules are on the same weeks and the games are all at 1.

The Bengals play a lot of 4:00 games this year. That's the price you pay when your team becomes interesting on the national scale.

Regarding games being in HD, I heard awhile back when the new TV contract was signed that beginning this season, all NFL regular season games had to be broadcast in HD. I have never been able to find independent verification of that, but I'd be thrilled if it's true.

Phil

You're in Oakwood, as I recall. How did you end up mounting that antenna ??

I mounted it to my chimney with a 4' length of galvanized pipe from Lowe's and a chimney strap from Radio Shack. I am less than impressed with the Radio Shack strap, but it has survived as bad of a storm as we're likely to get, so I guess it's OK. I didn't use a rotor or anything else to allow me to aim it, because I only use it for one channel. I tightened it down pretty hard, and if it moves I'll just have to climb up there and re-align it. So far, though, it's stayed put just fine.

Phil

I believe that was next year :(

The Bengals play a lot of 4:00 games this year. That's the price you pay when your team becomes interesting on the national scale.

Regarding games being in HD, I heard awhile back when the new TV contract was signed that beginning this season, all NFL regular season games had to be broadcast in HD. I have never been able to find independent verification of that, but I'd be thrilled if it's true.

Phil

I thought I would post this in case anyone else is having problems. TWC apparently updated the firmware on the 3250HD and or PACE HD boxes. This past week, users in Cincinnati have been reporting various problems with the new firmware -- including double letterboxing or squeezed pictures (4x3 SDTV will include one set of black bars then an additonal set of grey bars).

The solution, for now, is to select "stretch mode" in the system settings. See http://www.twcincy.com/highdefissue/


Also, if anyone else is recording to firewire to you PC, has anyone benn able to record 748 (WCET)? I tried to record the "Legends of Jazz" program, but dvhscap now crashes on me (but works with 716 -- WPTD). I generally like WCET better because the picture quality is better due to fewer subchannels using the bandwidth. I did manage to record it off of WPTD and was pleasently suprised to see that 5.1 surround sound has now been added -- when did this happen?

Is it just me, or is WDTN-DT not broadcasting HD right now?

During the day ?? Very likely *what* they're broadcasting is being done in HD....

Just looked at their schedule and it's a Nascar race and yes, it should be in HD.

Oooh ! Women's volleyball, following the race, is supposed to be in HD too.... :D

I did check the Nascar race and it definitely wasn't in HD nor was the volleyball following it... The volleyball players sure didn't look like women either !

WDTN missed the start of the Bengals' game for HD (and as noted above missed the whole day of HD broadcasting). Called the newsroom, and was told Indianapolis forgot to flip the switch. Fixed as of now.

Hall and jimp2244, thanks for the info. Moving in this Saturday, the 19th, and will be picking up some cheapie indoor antenna to start with either that day or the next. I will let you know how it goes, and thanks for the help!

I switched (back) to Dish and got things installed on Thursday. The receiver I have is the ViP622, which includes an OTA tuner. I don't know if it's the heat (antenna is attic-mounted) or that the 622 has a better tuner than the Samsung SIR-TS160 receiver, but the signal strength numbers increased a few points for each station. Then again, it could just be a different method of determining the numbers....

Anyway, I should have an "it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude regarding my current antenna, but I am considering this one, http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&pg=2&origkw=outdoor+tv+antenna&kw=outdoor+tv+antenna&parentPage=search. I'm guessing it might be "better" or more reliable than my current one. I just don't want to record an HD broadcast from a local station and have dropouts. Then again, I haven't seen any dropouts so far and all of my signals are in the 85-95 range, most being 90+ in fact.

Does anyone have that antenna, by chance ?? It would be mounted/located in my attic. Oddly, only the Sugarcreek Plaza store has it in stock....

I switched (back) to Dish and got things installed on Thursday. The receiver I have is the ViP622, which includes an OTA tuner. I don't know if it's the heat (antenna is attic-mounted) or that the 622 has a better tuner than the Samsung SIR-TS160 receiver, but the signal strength numbers increased a few points for each station. Then again, it could just be a different method of determining the numbers....

Anyway, I should have an "it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude regarding my current antenna, but I am considering this one, http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&pg=2&origkw=outdoor+tv+antenna&kw=outdoor+tv+antenna&parentPage=search. I'm guessing it might be "better" or more reliable than my current one. I just don't want to record an HD broadcast from a local station and have dropouts. Then again, I haven't seen any dropouts so far and all of my signals are in the 85-95 range, most being 90+ in fact.

Does anyone have that antenna, by chance ?? It would be mounted/located in my attic. Oddly, only the Sugarcreek Plaza store has it in stock....


Hall,

I've got the Shack antenna you mentioned in my attic hooked up to my HDTV card on my PC. I'm in SW butler county and have it pointed South and get pretty much everything in Cincy and Dayton. WB26 is a little problematic. You should be good with that one.

Hall, I'm considering switching to Dish also. I would like to have ESPN2HD for college football. How is the picture on standard channels compared to TWC? I have a Samsung 720p dlp, so I don't think the HD channels being " hd-lite" I so often hear about, will make any difference to me. Any input appreciated.

Aaron

I've always said that TW's analog channels don't compare at all to either DirecTV's or Dish's digital channels. Will that be the case when TW (Dayton) implements digital simulcasting ?? I don't know.... From other areas who have switched, most people are very happy with the change.

On a related note, some time ago, QofBanditZ complained about the picture quality of channels when using TW's set-tops vs connecting directly to the TV's input. A few weeks ago, there was a "digital" issue in my neighborhood. Myself and a few others didn't have service through our set-tops, no RR, and no digital phone. Out of curiosity, I bypassed the set-top and I was able to receive ch 2-78 ... and the picture was noticeably improved ! So, "Q", you were right. :D Sorry for doubting you back then.

Anyway, Dish carries ESPN2HD in their lowest DishHD package (as well as NFL Network HD). I've flipped the ESPN HD channels on a few times and half the time it's "fake" 16:9 and other times it full 16:9.

How or where can you look up the current output levels for our local TV stations ?? I mentioned elsewhere that I'm getting very good reception with my antenna on all channels except WKEF. Someone posted the numbers for WPTD, which was 290kW, vs WKEF, which was almost 1/3 that, in the 90kW range. That would explain things a bit....

Also, a few days ago when it was REALLY hot (can't imagine the temp in my attic !), I was getting 90+ readings for the local stations, except of course WKEF. It was in the 85-90 range though. Yesterday though, WKEF was dropping out whereas WRGT was pegging 100 on the signal meter ! I thought heat was doing something but yesterday's results confused me...

This will get you a list of all Ohio DT stations http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
IIRC, all I did was select Ohio as the state, DT as the service & clicked on submit. Clicking on the individual call sign gives additional details of that station.

Hall, I'm considering switching to Dish also. I would like to have ESPN2HD for college football. How is the picture on standard channels compared to TWC? I have a Samsung 720p dlp, so I don't think the HD channels being " hd-lite" I so often hear about, will make any difference to me. Any input appreciated.

Aaron

Depending on the way they downgrade the signal, "HD-lite" can look bad on a 720p TV. The problem with DirecTV is that they shave off the bits sending the signal, causing fast action scenes to be less sharp and have less detail. Dish Network, thus far, has left the bit rates high enough to allow for a high quality HD signal.

Anyway, I've been with Dish for 2 months now and I love it. The HD looks good on the downrez'd channels (VOOM), and looks great on ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, etc. (just as good as TWC looks, IMHO). All the extra HD channels are great as well. If you are looking to make a switch, I would go with Dish.

On a related note, some time ago, QofBanditZ complained about the picture quality of channels when using TW's set-tops vs connecting directly to the TV's input. A few weeks ago, there was a "digital" issue in my neighborhood. Myself and a few others didn't have service through our set-tops, no RR, and no digital phone. Out of curiosity, I bypassed the set-top and I was able to receive ch 2-78 ... and the picture was noticeably improved ! So, "Q", you were right. :D Sorry for doubting you back then.

So you never had bothered try this little experiment for yourself until this incident?
I know I was right! And I still am! ;)


Basic cable and Road Runner are all I have with them. My HDTV's tuner picks up 2-78 plus ALL the networks in HD and it looks about as good as you could hope for.


I appreciate your apology but it's too bad it took this long and we had that unfortunate communication in the past.

All for the want of no more than two minutes of your own time to do a fast A/V test and see what's what.


The appearance of that communication back then made it look like:


^^
I had pretty much written you and a couple of others off as tools of TWC in some way, shape, or form.

That was really the only way to explain the fanboyish and almost totally irrational and emotional responses I was getting. Especially without any firsthand knowledge or experience backing it up, unlike now.

It really was disappointing and atypical of what I'm used to seeing here at AVS and atypical of what I had seen in this thread back when I was a regular participant in it.

The responses just didn't leave me with much margin of error.

I still wouldn't be surprised if that's the way it was. I still suspect a few regulars in this thread as being either employees, insiders, or just outright tools for TWC.

Oh well.... *shrugs*


In any event, I'm glad you now see the facts for yourself. Sorry it took this long for you to get the idea.

Hopefully some others will get the idea and if we're really lucky, word will spread and maybe something will get done some day.

I won't hold my breath in the meantime. ;)

I had pretty much written you and a couple of others off as tools of TWC in some way, shape, or form.

That was really the only way to explain the fanboyish and almost totally irrational and emotional responses I was getting. Especially without any firsthand knowledge or experience backing it up, unlike now.

I still wouldn't be surprised if that's the way it was. I still suspect a few regulars in this thread as being either employees, insiders, or just outright tools for TWC.

All I have to say after reading this entire post is, wow. You must have been waiting along time to finally say, "I'm right." I'm glad that isn't eating away at you anymore.

Oh, and I'm sure hall's PQ increase had nothing to do with the digital comb filters on his HDTV.

Sure there are issues with the STBs converting analog signals to digital,but they're not limited to TWC. I completely agree that TWC doesn't do everything right, but don't jump right to assuming that TWC does everything wrong.

Don't forget everything's a conspiracy against you :rolleyes:

All I have to say after reading this entire post is, wow. You must have been waiting along time to finally say, "I'm right." I'm glad that isn't eating away at you anymore.

Oh, and I'm sure hall's PQ increase had nothing to do with the digital comb filters on his HDTV.

Sure there are issues with the STBs converting analog signals to digital,but they're not limited to TWC. I completely agree that TWC doesn't do everything right, but don't jump right to assuming that TWC does everything wrong.

Don't forget everything's a conspiracy against you :rolleyes:

Whatever you say, chief.

My advice to you would be to simply mind your own business.

Oh, and I'm sure hall's PQ increase had nothing to do with the digital comb filters on his HDTV. On this topic, I had asked my technical contact at TW about the picture quality of the analog channels through a set-top recently. I told him, "I hate to say it, but some of the analog channels currently look really bad... I did have my cable connected straight to my TV one day, bypassing the box, and the picture was much, much better."

His reply was, "By the way, your right about the set tops processing of analog channels, the set top digitizes the all incoming analog and the MPEG2 encoder in the set top is not the most expensive encoder available. When we encode these services at the headend, the picture quality will improve through the set top. The headend encoders are of much higher quality."

So, is it my TV ?? Q's TV ?? Or is it the set-top ??

On this topic, I had asked my technical contact at TW about the picture quality of the analog channels through a set-top recently. I told him, "I hate to say it, but some of the analog channels currently look really bad... I did have my cable connected straight to my TV one day, bypassing the box, and the picture was much, much better."

His reply was, "By the way, your right about the set tops processing of analog channels, the set top digitizes the all incoming analog and the MPEG2 encoder in the set top is not the most expensive encoder available. When we encode these services at the headend, the picture quality will improve through the set top. The headend encoders are of much higher quality."

So, is it my TV ?? Q's TV ?? Or is it the set-top ??


The set top. ;) Our TV's are just fine. :)

Back in November of 05, when I was last in this thread and we discussed all of this, I tested my theory on all of my TV's in the house. These were all TV's of varying quality and SD and HD type TV's.

There was a Zenith c32v37 HD, several SD Sonys of varying sizes, and then ultimately my KD34XBr960.

Across the boards, it was, and is, no contest.

TWC PQ without STB = great. Honest to God. The PQ for HD especially like this is as good as it gets for broadcast. You'd be hard pressed to do better, imo.

Lost, 24, football, you name it. This HD is incredible sans STB. Like looking out of a window.



TWC PQ with STB = a hit that even my non videophile mother couldn't stand and noticed immediately.

I agree, no STB = superior picture.


In my experience, a cablecard gives you the best picture for HD channels on the HD tier. Better than HDMI through the 8300HD.

Anyone notice a lipsync problem on WKEF-DT lately? I noticed it on "Cast Away" and on tonights programing.

Hopefully some others will get the idea and if we're really lucky, word will spread and maybe something will get done some day. Nothing will get done about this, at least from TW's end. They're moving towards digital simulcasting which should eliminate any conversions being done at the set-top.

Nothing will get done about this, at least from TW's end. They're moving towards digital simulcasting which should eliminate any conversions being done at the set-top.

Good.

Hello all, I am a newbie at HDTV. Just purchased a HDTV and HD indoor antenna so I can watch my beloved Buckeye Football this fall. I am having a huge Buckeye party for the Texas game. It is being televised on ABC. I live in Liberty township (snadwiched between Middletown and West Chester). I noticed I get NBC and CBS HD signals, but have not picked up an ABC HD signal.... HELP!!!

ABC would be WKEF and I get the lowest signal strength from them and I'm less than 10 miles from the broadcast towers. They're running at 138kW vs WHIO, who is at 275kW or WDTN, who is at 1000kW !

At 15 miles from the towers, an indoor antenna could work. I had to put mine (indoor also) in my attic and with some fine-tuning a few days ago, I get 88+ for ALL the Dayton stations now. Even as an experiment, do you have a 2nd story (or 3rd) you can try the antenna at ??

I have an attic. Bare with my ignorance... but how would I get the cord from Attic to the basement (where my TV is located). Is there a way to go wireless???

Is both Cincinnati and Dayton's ABC stations sending out the lowest powered signal? That sounds lame. It is one of the largest networks.

Cincinnati is on VHF, channel 10, remapped to 9. If you're using a UHF-only antenna, odds aren't good.

This is the antenna I have. Should I take it back and upgrade? Thoughts?

RCA Indoor Amplified TV Antenna with Low-Noise Amplifier for Best Signal

Model No: ANT585

Optimize picture quality with this RCA indoor amplified TV antenna that has 25dB amplification. It synchronizes to HDTV frequencies on channels 14 and up. Adjustable VHF dipoles for improved reception on channels 2-13.

I have an attic. Bare with my ignorance... but how would I get the cord from Attic to the basement (where my TV is located).

Fish the the wire through your walls or run it outside the house from the attic to the basement. If your "basement" is underground like most are moving your antenna to anywhere above ground should improve signal strength.

Checkout http://www.antennaweb.org for more information about antenna requirements. Using one of the two zipcodes for Liberty Twp they say you need a large directional antenna with a pre-amp to get WKEF-DT and I'm not sure what is prompting that large of an antenna, but it could be some kind of geographic issue.

I've read, but don't know how true it is, but an antenna in a basement, which is typically cement walls or block, pretty much KILLS most reception. I guess it's not completely true though since you get a couple of stations.

That antenna you have is cool looking though....

Another method, in addition to the ones terryfoster noted, is to try and run the cable alongside your "vent stack". In older houses, that's the 4-6" black iron pipe the vents your home's sewage system to the air. I was able to run some cable down mine once (I taped a large fishing weight on the end of my ethernet to "help" it down). I later tried to get a run of RG6 but couldn't though.

Is your house wired for cable? I spliced into the old cable lines in my house. The living room feed went straight accross the attic, I cut into it and attached new RG59 connectors. I also cut the lines going into the cable box and spliced them together. Basically I've reversed the feed and my antenna in the attic sends its signal to my TV's throughout the house. If you're wired for cable, you might be able to do the same.

All,

I am very appreciative for the feedback! My basement is built into a hill, so I need to find a way to get the antenna higher. I will explore all options to put it in the attic and run it to the basement.

I do have cable ran throughout the house. My Dish Netwk satellite is on the roof as well. I like the idea of splicing the cable wires and adding a connector. Will it affect my satellite reception? I beleive the satellite company is using the coax cable in the wall.

Well, my cable was unused so I was pretty safe.

I think you can piggy-back an antenna signal on a satellite line, but you'd have to buy a dohicky to merge the signals. I have done it and don't know much about it.

If you've got a satellite dish, I think there are antenna's that you can clip on, then you use the previously mentioned dohicky to merge the signals at the source. If you're on the roof, you're likely to get an even better signal than in the attic.

A dohicky like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JQJY/sr=8-4/qid=1156440811/ref=pd_bbs_4/102-2259280-1983350?ie=UTF8


and/or an antenna like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005T3A8/ref=pd_cp_e_title/102-2259280-1983350?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=172282

Looks like that has the dohicky built in. Maybe someone with experience with matters can fill in the details, but it might work for you.

Umm...... I don't know how you might pull the antenna signal back out at the TV. Maybe just a splitter?

Here's another diplexer available locally: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=180-508

As you can see from the image of the above one, they "combine" and "split" the signal, so you would use (2) of these.

Those clip-on antennas are generally frowned upon. Odds are, his satellite dish is pointing S-SW or so. Unless he lives in Northeast or "central" east Dayton, the local broadcast towers won't be in the "right" direction for him to use those clip-on antennas.

Forgive me if I missed a sticky or a FAQ with this info.

What is the status on WDTN being added to Time Warner's HD lineup? I ask TW nearly everytime I call for something else. The CS reps are always useless. I asked a tech who came out to install a cable card for a SONY DHG-HDD500 OTA/QAM HD-DVR that I recently acquired and he didn't know either.

I live in Centerville and have a cheap passive Zenith indoor antenna hooked up to the Sony DVR + the CC. It is basically sitting on top of the TV, inside the bottom floor of a 2-story condo in Centerville.

I get 90+ for WDTN and The Tube. WB-HD is not reliable, and the rest I just use the TW signal as I have to re-direct the antenna to change to CBS/Fox/ABC or get a better indoor antenna or mount an external.

According to antennaweb, my location in relation to all of the Dayton HD signals compass orientation ranges from 347-351 degrees, so it is a fairly tight range and distance ranges from 9.1-9.9 miles, so I am close. I think if I put an outdoor antenna up, I would get great reception.

I also have the TW HD-DVR for a different TV, but I really can't stand TW and will switch in a minute as soon as I can get reliable broadcast HDTV-DVR up and running from either an OTA source or preferably through a HD-DVR STB from a satellite provider, but that is another post and rant.

Series3 Tivo is supposed to be available at the end of Sept:

Thanks for any info.

The question of when TW and WDTN will come to an agreement has been going on for a number of years..... I have an e-mail from the head engineer at WDTN date 10/1/2004 explaining that it's all contractual stuff, negotiations, etc, etc. Basically, don't hold your breathe.

I had a similar dilemna as you with TW and I couldn't stand having to watch NBC stuff in analog, standard definition. We DVR almost everything we watch so using my digital OTA receiver was an option, but once you've used a DVR, it's hard to adjust. I currently have Dish Network (again) and have their HD-DVR. Best part is, it's got a built-in OTA tuner so you can hook an antenna to it and the local stations are integrated into the Dish program guide *and* you can record these stations. I was using the $4 bowtie antenna from Radio Shack and it worked real well. It was in my front window and everytime my wife saw it, she gave me "the look". From inside, you couldn't see it 'cause we had blinds and from outside, I don't think you'd notice it unless you were staring. I ended up with the Terk HDTVi (not the amplified one) in my attic and now get excellent reception.

Series3 Tivo is supposed to be available at the end of Sept

Pure speculation...

front page of digg today.

true it is speculation, but comments posted someone had spoken to tivo cs and now series3 is on the website.

i'm too new on here to post the url.

front page of digg today.

true it is speculation, but comments posted someone had spoken to tivo cs and now series3 is on the website.

i'm too new on here to post the url.

TiVo has not updated their official stance of "Second Half of 2006." I'm well aware of the page on TiVo's site and the fact that it has been leaked they are beta testing, but to say "Series3 Tivo is supposed to be available at the end of Sept" without qualification is just spreading rumor.

I will admit that I should have qualified my last post as well.

http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr.asp
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/22/series-3-tivo-in-the-wild/

Fish the the wire through your walls or run it outside the house from the attic to the basement. If your "basement" is underground like most are moving your antenna to anywhere above ground should improve signal strength.

Checkout http://www.antennaweb.org for more information about antenna requirements. Using one of the two zipcodes for Liberty Twp they say you need a large directional antenna with a pre-amp to get WKEF-DT and I'm not sure what is prompting that large of an antenna, but it could be some kind of geographic issue.

I'm in liberty township and get WKEF-dt with no problem from an attic mounted UHF only antenna in a 1 storey house.

Anyone watch Pearl Harbor on Saturday night ?? We turned it on about an hour in and about a 1/2 hour after that, started getting excessive pixellation. It was more or less unwatchable. When I initially tune to a channel, my reciever tells me the signal strength and it was always 90+ so I don't believe it was a strength issue. No other local channels were breaking up like this either (I initially thought the rain was causing it...).

Just noticed WRGT-DT has added a multicast SD subchannel (45.2) -- In the PSIP/EPG info it is labeled "MyTV", and says "MyTV" coming soon ...

So, we get (presumably) MyTV HD from WSTR-DT Cincinnati, CW HD from WBDT-DT Dayton And -- CW SD from a multicast SD subchannel from WKRC-DT Cincy, and MyTV SD from WRGT-DT SD subchannel ...

Just noticed WRGT-DT has added a multicast SD subchannel (45.2) -- In the PSIP/EPG info it is labeled "MyTV", and says "MyTV" coming soon ...

So, we get (presumably) MyTV HD from WSTR-DT Cincinnati, CW HD from WBDT-DT Dayton And -- CW SD from a multicast SD subchannel from WKRC-DT Cincy, and MyTV SD from WRGT-DT SD subchannel ...

Interesting -- how will this affect picture quality on 45.1? I thought I read somewhere that WXIX, despite having the Tube on a subchannel, does not have picture degredation on 19.1 because of the way the fox splicer works (the Tube is limited to only the unused bandwidth of 19.1). Will it work the same with 45?

Interesting -- how will this affect picture quality on 45.1? I thought I read somewhere that WXIX, despite having the Tube on a subchannel, does not have picture degredation on 19.1 because of the way the fox splicer works (the Tube is limited to only the unused bandwidth of 19.1). Will it work the same with 45?


Yep, you got it. It shouldn't effect the Fox HD PQ at all.

Hey all, back for more ???s

I was able to get quite a few stations in by just playing with positioning of the attenna I have in the basement. Remember my goal is ABC stations in HDTV so I can watch the OSU vs Texas game in HD.

My question is... Channel 22.1 from dayton is ABC. This appears to be HD, can anyone confirm this for me?

Yes, WKEF-DT from Dayton (22.1) is HD and is the channel you are looking for.

Hey all, back for more ???s

I was able to get quite a few stations in by just playing with positioning of the attenna I have in the basement. Remember my goal is ABC stations in HDTV so I can watch the OSU vs Texas game in HD.



Is your basement finished?

If not, getting a RG6 cable up to the attic, and moving that antenna up there would help out BIG TIME!

I've got the Shack antenna you mentioned in my attic hooked up to my HDTV card on my PC. I'm in SW butler county and have it pointed South and get pretty much everything in Cincy and Dayton. You should be good with that one. I finally got around to getting that antenna and it definitely solved the WKEF low signal "problem". Of the (6) local stations, the lowest signal strength I get now is 92-93. I get 99-100 for 3-4 stations.

If you're south of Dayton's broadcast towers and your antenna is pointed south, how are you picking up Dayton's stations ??

I did try pointing my antenna due south towards Cincinnati and did a channel scan. I picked up none of the Cincy stations.... Oddly, I still got ALL of the Dayton stations.

Hey everyone:

My basement is finished, but it is built into the side of a hill AND my house is at a high elevation in comparison to surrounding locations. I am pointing my antenna north for the dayton signal as they will show more OSU coverage than Cincy.

The signal is awesome!!!! I didn't have to change antenna's, run anything fromt he attic... nothing, just played around with the location of the antenna which was originally hiding behind the tv (because my wife was complaining about how it looked). Every sice I put it on top of the tv, Tons of channels, phenomenal clarity.

I am rreally excited!

I guess I am in a roundabout way recommending my antenna to everyone :)

What does your wife say now that it's on top of the TV ?? Walk in front of the antenna while you're tuned to a local, digital station and see what happens.

Anyone notice Channel 45.1 was up broadcasting My network tv tonight? No commercials, just a network logo in place of them.

Can anyone confirm that the OSU game (22.1 8pm) is in HD tonight? Titan TV (yeah I know they aren't reliable) doesn't say HD. I can't imagine not, but it has me a bit worried! Go Buckeyes!

Yes. It is in Hd

I'm pretty sure ALL Saturday night ABC games will be presented in HiDef.

Here is a great HDTV listings site for sports only:

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/

I'm pretty sure ALL Saturday night ABC games will be presented in HiDef.

On top of that ESPN on ABC also seems to be airing one 3:30 regional game in HD. I'm hoping the Michigan game on Nov 18th is one of those games. Also, all ESPN/ESPN2 games will be in HD.

The OSU vs Texas game is in HD tonight via OTA.

7.1 (WHIO-DT/CBS) outta Dayton via OTA attic antenna and Directv H20 HD box

Watching the Bengals-Chiefs.

Have 95-100% signal strength for 7.1 via the box.

Getting tons of stuttering/slow-mo from the main field camera, almost every play. Looks like the picture just stutters or goes in slow-mo for a milli-second. Very annoying.

Don't see this via 12-1 (WKRC-DT/CBS) outta Cincy. However, my signal strength is only 60-65% and the picture isn't quite as good.

Any ideas on the stuttering/slow-mo on 7.1? They don't even have a subchannel sucking away extra bandwidth as far as I know.....

Thanks!

looks good from here.. no problems from 7.1 - ota with an HDTivo

My wife was watching the game and I was checking in every once in a while and never saw any issues. She didn't mention anything either ... and she would if there were problems.

No problems OTA in Kettering, Ohio (Dish Network VIP622 HDDVR).

Hey, guys.

I've had TWC for many years and HD as long as its been available. I've endured the SD broadcasts of some of my favorite NBC shows but now that NBC has grabbed a piece of the NFL pie, SD is hard for me to stomach. I'm considering the switch to Dish and the 622. I think from Belbrook I'll be okay getting the locals OTA.
I've also considered just purchasing an HD tuner since my Mitsubishi WS-65807 doesn't have a tuner. The issue there is I only have one HD input on the set. My Denon AVR-3300 has component switching but I've heard mixed reviews regarding quality of signal after passing through the receiver.

Any advice or recommendations? Who should I look to for Dish installation?

Thanks,

J

I dont know about the Denon, but I run my HD Tivo via component through my receiver to my Sony 60" sxrd. I use my receiver to switch component signals from my TIVO and DVD and I do not notice any signal degredation. I compared my component via the receiver vs going direct HDMI into the TV and there was little difference.

If you are referring to specific problems with the Denon receiver, than I cant help you there.

Depending where you are at in Bellbrook (low in the valley) or high up by the water tower near the new High school, will somewhat determine the reliability and signal strength for OTA.

From what I'm reading about your TV, it has (2) sets of component inputs.

As for ordering Dish, I'd suggest ordering directly and not through a retailer or reseller. Cut out any middlemen... Dish has an installation contractor, Digital Dish, for this area that does all of the "direct" order installations, service, etc, etc. That's all Digital Dish does so they're not really an "outside" contractor. Most people seem to be very happy with the work they do.

Anyone not getting FOX's House in HD OTA?

Anyone not getting FOX's House in HD OTA?

SD and 2.0 audio on WRGT cable feed via QAM tuner.

I had OTA HD on 45-1, but lot of pixelization & lost signal breakup.
Though my tuner was going bad. Powered on, off, several times.
Finally after so many breakups, it bwcame unwatchable via OTA.

Can anyone offer an explanation on why the Tigers game on ESPNHD and ESPN was blacked out on TWC? TWC's explanation is that the games are blacked out for attendance reasons -- obviously BS as MLB baseball games are not subject to attendance blackouts (as if anyone in Dayton would drive to Detriot anyway to see the Tigers play). A few weeks ago, a number of White Sox games were blacked out on ESPNHD and the same explanation was given.

Hey, guys.

I've had TWC for many years and HD as long as its been available. I've endured the SD broadcasts of some of my favorite NBC shows but now that NBC has grabbed a piece of the NFL pie, SD is hard for me to stomach. I'm considering the switch to Dish and the 622. ...

Any advice or recommendations? Who should I look to for Dish installation?

Thanks,

J

I share your concern re: TW & NBC. I watched the Steelers in HD over the air from NBC Channel 5 in Cinci. I'm south of you a bit and seem to get channel 5 best plus since (local) NBC and TW can't get together on this I like the idea of watching NBC out of Cincinnati. It looked great. I keep checking on Dish also. So keep us posted on your decision.

From what I'm reading about your TV, it has (2) sets of component inputs.

As for ordering Dish, I'd suggest ordering directly and not through a retailer or reseller. Cut out any middlemen... Dish has an installation contractor, Digital Dish, for this area that does all of the "direct" order installations, service, etc, etc. That's all Digital Dish does so they're not really an "outside" contractor. Most people seem to be very happy with the work they do.

My set has three component inputs, only one of which supports 1080i. The other two are limited to 480p. I'm going to experiment with my Denon this weekend and see how the switching performs. Next week I'm going to begin the process of giving a Dish a try. I really having nothing to lose trying it for a few months. If it doesn't work out, I can always return to TWC (and probably save a few bucks switching back). I'll update the forum as the switch proceeds.

Thanks for your comments.

J

My set has three component inputs, only one of which supports 1080i. The other two are limited to 480p. I'm going to experiment with my Denon this weekend and see how the switching performs.

J

Component switching through your receiver should work fine for you. I use my Pioneer receiver component inputs/output to switch between my OTA HD box and XBox 360 without an issue or quality difference.

Anyone not getting FOX's House in HD OTA? My wife and I just watched the House episode off the DVR and it started out in SD but flipped to HD at some point. Probably after a commercial break because I didn't even realize it had changed. I'm getting WRGT over-the-air.

Did TWC use the SD feed for the entire show ??

My wife and I just watched the House episode off the DVR and it started out in SD but flipped to HD at some point. Probably after a commercial break because I didn't even realize it had changed. I'm getting WRGT over-the-air.

Did TWC use the SD feed for the entire show ??

No...it started out in SD but came on in HD after commercial. Interestingly, the "Fox45" bug was absent during the show. The credits ran in SD and then "Standoff" was stuck in SD the whole time.

Things were back to normal the next day, since "Bones" aired in HD.

I wish someone would fix the @#$% volume levels. The network spots are always too loud relative to the volume of the show, while the local break volume winds up being 6dB or more below the Fox feed.

No...it started out in SD but came on in HD after commercial. Interestingly, the "Fox45" bug was absent during the show. I did notice that during the SD time, it showed both "bugs".
I wish someone would fix the @#$% volume levels. The network spots are always too loud relative to the volume of the show, while the local break volume winds up being 6dB or more below the Fox feed. I never noticed this when I had TWC HD, but it's very noticeable, and annoying, with OTA now.

Can anyone explain why the Aub-LSU in HD on CBS OTA is SOOOOOO much nicer than the Mich-ND in HD on NBC OTA? Both are the Dayton stations.

Thanks!

They are both in 1080 format, so no difference there.

Lots of factors go into the end picture quality..... Could be any number of them.

Can anyone explain why the Aub-LSU in HD on CBS OTA is SOOOOOO much nicer than the Mich-ND in HD on NBC OTA? Both are the Dayton stations.

Thanks!


Well, for one, WDTN runs a subchannel, WHIO does not (WHIO removed the subchannel after numerous complaints). Others have said that NBC's production of NCAA/NFL football in HD isn't up to par with CBS.

I actually thought the Michigan v. ND game looked pretty good compared to other NBC broadcasts (including NFL Sunday night).

I am new to the Forum and would like to say hello.

Now for my question, I am in Kettering at the Residenz Apartments, with an medium multi-directional antenna that is out on my balcony running to an LG-3410A and Samsung SR-451 set-top box. I have no problem picking up every HD channel offered in Dayton and the surrounding area except NBC - WDTV. That is the only channel that I experience any problems with on either box. It has become more noticable at night during primetime, while on Saturday afternoon during football it doesn't break up.

I don't have the option to mount the antenna on the roof, which is what I beleive I need to do, but I would like to know has anyone else notice Channel 2 breaking up? Plus has anyone ever ran an indoor and outdoor antenna together combining them to improve reception? Also, if a person has some idea of what I need to do to improve Channel 2, I am all ears.

Thanks,

Made

Since I added my attic antenna and "fine-tuned" it, WDTN gets the lowest number on my receiver, but then again, that's in the low 90s. WDTN's tower is also the furthest south so maybe you're pointed too much in the westerly (??) direction (if I point too much south, my numbers for WKEF really drop, so I traded off on WDTN).

Odd thing is, I believe WDTN has the highest output power of all the Dayton stations @ 1000kW.

Think this is the first HD They've had .. But good to see WBDT-DT has Smallville HD tonight ... It's not DD 5.1 though, DD 2.0 audio stream currently ...

Anyone watch ER last night (9/21) or DVR it and watch it later ?? It looks like it didn't make it in HD... It was widescreen, but ER has been shown that way for years. Problem is, the end picture is rather small, having bars on the top *and* side. :(

Anyone watch ER last night (9/21) or DVR it and watch it later ?? It looks like it didn't make it in HD... It was widescreen, but ER has been shown that way for years. Problem is, the end picture is rather small, having bars on the top *and* side. :(

I live in the Fairborn/Beavercreek area and Time Warner doesn't offer NBC in HD, but I'm from Lima and Lima DOES offer it in HD............. anyone know why....... I though Dayton and Lima had the same offering...........

Also my channel 700 says USAHD but it is always off air........ the idoits at Time Warner can't give me an answer why...... they say they don't offer USA, but why is it in the guide?

TW in Lima carries numerous "out of town" channels, from Dayton, Toledo, and Columbus (or used to ... I'm from Lima too). I see that the digital channel for NBC is WNWO out of Toledo. Hmmm, yet Lima has a local NBC channel, WLIO. Same thing happens here with FOX as TW carries the Dayton FOX station and Cincy's FOX station. At 8pm, the FOX Cincy feeds switches out to "junk" and not the normal primetime stuff. Does the same happen in Lima on WNWO ??

Dayton and Lima are no longer in the same division. Dayton is part of "Southwest Ohio" and Lima is part of "Mid Ohio" (Columbus). Doesn't matter though as station carraige is by location, not cable division.

Channel 700 is probably just a "test" channel currently. You say it says "USAHD", but does it list any programming ?? If so, what are some examples ??

From Friday's Dayton Daily News:

Marc Katz, TV/Media Insider (page B2)

Nine things my TV could do without

(I won't list all of them, just the relevant one)

3. Speaking of Time Warner -- and LIN Broadcasting, which owns our local NBC affiliate, WDTN -- if corporate hasn't come up with a solution to the high-definition TV problem after three years, what makes us believe there is ever going to a solution ?

TW in Lima carries numerous "out of town" channels, from Dayton, Toledo, and Columbus (or used to ... I'm from Lima too). I see that the digital channel for NBC is WNWO out of Toledo. Hmmm, yet Lima has a local NBC channel, WLIO. Same thing happens here with FOX as TW carries the Dayton FOX station and Cincy's FOX station. At 8pm, the FOX Cincy feeds switches out to "junk" and not the normal primetime stuff. Does the same happen in Lima on WNWO ??

Dayton and Lima are no longer in the same division. Dayton is part of "Southwest Ohio" and Lima is part of "Mid Ohio" (Columbus). Doesn't matter though as station carraige is by location, not cable division.

Channel 700 is probably just a "test" channel currently. You say it says "USAHD", but does it list any programming ?? If so, what are some examples ??


Thanks for the info........... as far as Channel 700........ when I go to the guide it lists it as USAHD (the USA Network) but there is never any programming......... it says "OFF AIR" 24 hours a day

As I recall, MTVHD used to show up in the channel listing in diagnostic mode too. Don't worry about it .... if you're waiting for TW to add any high-def channels, give up now. :)

I just moved to Englewood

the digital channels I get using a indoor radio shack 15-1892 are

2.1-2
5.1-2
7.1
12.1-2
14.2-6
16.2-6
19.1-2
22.1-2
26.1
43.1-5
45.1-2
48.1-2
64.1

are there any other digital channels I might be able to pull in this area

Seth,

That's impressive if you can pick up all those stations consistently with that indoor antenna. One other one you may be able to receive is 9.1-2 which is WCPO. They broadcast on channel 10. Your antenna is supposedly UHF and VHF so you may be able to get it. I'm just a few miles south of you with a roof-mounted antenna and don't get all those stations reliably. The biggest problem is adjacent channel problems with 29, 30 and 31. 30 (45) being so strong keeps me from getting 29 and 31 (19 and 12) reliably.

Paul

Heh Seth, don't press your luck !! That's hard to believe you're pulling in Cincy stations with an indoor antenna at your distance ! I mean, you're 50 miles from Cincy's towers.

I guess it helps a bit that Englewood is "higher" elevation (isn't it ??).

What kind of signal numbers do you get for the Cincy channels ?? What receiver are you using ??

Well the tv I'm using is a Samsung HL -S6187. I don't know if the elevation is higher here. But I have nothing but highway and cornfields in my southern path. So there are no stuctures in my way to block the single. So that should help a lot.

The only channels that drop in and out sometimes while watching is channel 2 NBC Dayton and 48 PBS Cincy. But I've just been watching channel 5 for NBC. I can't believe I get the Cincy station better then the Dayton station. It might just be my antenna placement. I need to get some longer coax cable so I can move my antenna around cause right now I only have 6 feet.


I get staions 5,7,12,14,16,19,22,26,43,45,64 great. So I got ABC,CBS,NBC,Fox,CW,PBS, covered and I get 5 bars out of 8 according to my tv. It's just a indoor antenna so I'm not expecting full strength.

I'm happy though. I get more HD then I did with Tme Warner. Now all I need to get is Dish Network.

Well the tv I'm using is a Samsung HL -S6187. I don't know if the elevation is higher here. But I have nothing but highway and cornfields in my southern path. So there are no stuctures in my way to block the single. So that should help a lot.

The only channels that drop in and out sometimes while watching is channel 2 NBC Dayton and 48 PBS Cincy. But I've just been watching channel 5 for NBC. I can't believe I get the Cincy station better then the Dayton station. It might just be my antenna placement. I need to get some longer coax cable so I can move my antenna around cause right now I only have 6 feet.


I get staions 5,7,12,14,16,19,22,26,43,45,64 great. So I got ABC,CBS,NBC,Fox,CW,PBS, covered and I get 5 bars out of 8 according to my tv. It's just a indoor antenna so I'm not expecting full strength.

I'm happy though. I get more HD then I did with Tme Warner. Now all I need to get is Dish Network.


You are lucky you are pulling all those channels....... I'm located right next to Wright State University and only pull about half those channels with one of the best indoor antennas from Best Buy........... I wish I could pull the CW in HD, but I guess that signal is out of Cincinatti and I'm too far north.......

Couple of thoughts in case they are of any use:

Magic507,

CW HD transmits from Dayton(WBDT-DT). There is no Cincinnati CW HD capable affiliate, currently. Cincinnati CW is a SD Only multicast channel from WKRC-DT (CBS HD), Once WB HD affiliate WSTR-DT Cincinnati now is MyNetworkTV (HD) affiliate.

Even though they are at "full power", WBDT-DT 18(remaps to 26.1) is however the lowest power DTV station in Dayton. Their current Full power allocation(for during the transistion) is also the lowest UHF DTV full power allocation I know of (35KW ERP).

Just guessing, but part of that probably has to do with the facilities and coverage area of WBDT 26 analog at the time the DTV allocation procedure was occuring. As, at the time, WBDT was a bit lower power station from a shorter tower broadcasting from Springfield.

They've since moved to the "main" Dayton antenna farm(just SW of downtown Dayton) and increased power(the analog station). In any case, I'd guess This "lower power" situation for WBDT-DT ( which can probably in some cases make it more difficult to receive from indoors, or outlying areas than is the case with the other dayton stations ) will likely change after analog shut off, when co-channel stations such as WLEX 18(analog) Lexington, KY also won't be an interference protection issue. It was extremely difficult to find enough room on the dial for all the analog+digital stations ... A situation which should improve greatly after the analog stations are shut off(currently scheduled for Feb 2009 ....) ....

--------------------

Seth,

As for pulling in the Cincinnati stations from Englewood, but having problems with WDTN-DT ----- Especially given RS 15-1892 uses an amplifier according to RS site :

I'd guess one good possibility may be too strong a signal from WDTN-DT may be overloading the front-end of your receiver ---- which is one possibilty that might explain the results you're getting with WDTN-DT. If so, perhaps either a lower gain setting on the amp(it looks like it's switchable), or NO amp (note, but you may lose some of the Cincy stations with those options), or a variable atteunator in line may be of some benefit.

If that's not the issue,I'd guess another good possibility could involve multipath issues, which are typically more of an issue with indoor antennas. Also -- Keep in mind, Multipath issues can be *very* frequency(channel) specific. For example You could easily, for example have serious multipath problems with a station on 50 transmitting on the same tower(and same height more or less) as say, a station transmitting on channel 36 and achieve excellent reception from the latter ....

Just keep in mind when trying to diagnose these issues, the vast majority of DTV receivers out there tell you absolutely nothing about actual signal strength. Instead, their "signal meters"(sometimes even when they are labeled as "signal strength") are, in a sense usually readings more along the lines of how "easy" it is for the decoder to decode the datastream, and are usually best thought of as "signal quality" meters.

Thus, one can experience high readings off the meters even when a relatively weak signal is present, and in some cases low(or no) readings when a strong(or too strong) signal, or a signal plagued with multipath the receiver can't correct for is present. Keep in mind, you only need about 16db Signal over noise(uncorrectable multipath is also seen as noise by the receiver) to achieve PERFECT DTV reception -- Drop below that, and you get dropouts, or no reception.

As I recall, MTVHD used to show up in the channel listing in diagnostic mode too. Don't worry about it .... if you're waiting for TW to add any high-def channels, give up now. :)

...such as WDTN. Fifty freakin bucks for cable and they are so chintzy on channel lineup.

Sunday Night Football is unwatchable with an antenna. Too many big trees around my house. So here I sit with glorious blurry analog SD.

Anyone watch ER last night (9/21) or DVR it and watch it later ?? It looks like it didn't make it in HD... It was widescreen, but ER has been shown that way for years. Problem is, the end picture is rather small, having bars on the top *and* side.


Missed this one earlier, sorry.

ER was HD from WDTN-DT while I was watching it 9/21 (watched part of it on WDTN-DT part of it on WLWT-DT - for no particular reason, really, think I probably switched to Cincy antenna for WXIX weather and ended up watching the rest of ER on WLWT-DT).

However, at first (right at 10pm), I did lose audio/video sync from WDTN-DT, but It seemed to be on my end as after I switched to the stream from 2.2 and then back to 2.1, it was fine.

Hello,

For the past week or so (maybe more), Channel 13 WB/CW on TWC Dayton for me has been having sound issues. It appears that the center channel is getting sent through to the right speaker instead of to the center channel. All of the dialogue and most of the sound is coming out of my right speaker.

All of my other channels SD and HD are sending the sound properly so I don't think this is an issue with my equipment. I have a 8300HD DVR box.

Anyone else also having similar problems?

Thanks

Haven't noticed any audio issues from WBDT/WBDT-DT (CW Dayton), But haven't watched the analog station much. That's via OTA.

Did notice Monday+last night that in addition to HD WBDT-DT Had DD 5.1 audio up and running at 9~10pm for the new CW show(I think they aired a encore of the same show that ran Mon Night at 9pm). Sounded fine here from all 5.1 channels when I checked it (which was between about 9:45pm~10pm both nights).

Anyone else getting dropouts on Fox tonight? I'm seeing them on both the HD feed (via cable QAM) and also the analog channel 8 on TWC.

All my recordings from last night on Fox HD had dropouts on TWC.

Thanks Nite for responding about Channel 13.

If anyone on here who has TimeWarner gets a chance can you check channel 13 and let me know if you are getting right channel heavy sound? When i move my balance all the way to the left on my other non home theatre tv, there is no dialogue so I think something is up with TW's feed.

Checked tonight and the sound from 13 appears to be fixed. I guess my call to TW might actually have paid off.

Anyone with TWC service know if they've switched to digital simulcasting yet ?? I stopped asking my contact a while ago and since dropping TWC, haven't had any conversations with that person.

No.

First off, do you enjoy following me around this site, nit-picking my comments, and generally being a troll ?? Have you posted in this thread before ?? Do you live in this area so that this topic is of ANY interest to you ?? Ahhh yes, back to my troll comment, I suppose....

Second, you clearly have NO CLUE what the basis for me asking this question is for.

All my recordings from last night on Fox HD had dropouts on TWC.

Thanks Nite for responding about Channel 13.

If anyone on here who has TimeWarner gets a chance can you check channel 13 and let me know if you are getting right channel heavy sound? When i move my balance all the way to the left on my other non home theatre tv, there is no dialogue so I think something is up with TW's feed.

Checked tonight and the sound from 13 appears to be fixed. I guess my call to TW might actually have paid off.

I noticed the channel balance problem on 13 as well. I've also seen that problem on TNT (channel 31).

Over the last few days I have experienced video / audio issues with WHIO Channel 7 using an over-the-air antenna / Direct TV TIVO recorder. Has anyone else experience any issues with Dayton CBS (WHIO) -- just trying to troubleshoot and trying to determine if I am having a problem or if WHIO is having probles -- it appears the other channels are being received without a problem.

During the football games over the weekend there was audio problems with their DD5.1. Sometimes they would lose the center channel and the voice would move to the front two. It would always witch back after a few minutes. Is that what you are referring to?

tmholthaus

I had issues watching CSI monday night. Glad to know it's not just me

hi, new HDTv owner, and I just purchased a TV with OTA HDTV. I live in Kettering, Ohio, right behind Beavertown elementary school. I bought a radio shack antenna, Model 15-1892, I am receiving all the HDTV channels I want (ABC, CBS, NBC) but I found I drop their signels alot which is very frustrating. What should I do? The only channel I pick up well is ABC, the rest are very choppy. Thanks guys.

Chesskid1,

Is it amplfied? If at all possible, turn off the amp(or turn it "down" think I read that antenna has some adjustable gain settings) ... having an amp in line that close to towers can easily overload things and cause problems .....

If that doesn't help --- Get some extra feedline, and move the antenna around and try to find a "sweet spot" for reception ....

Hopefully there is such a spot for the antenna which will easily provide excellent reception of all six dayton HD stations(NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS, CW) Near a window facing towers is often(but not allways) a good spot from indoors -- Move the antenna around "slowly" and experiment with different spots .... as, Keep in mind it takes a while for the decoder in your receiver to "catch up" and be able to decode the datastream when you're moving things around, and also keep in mind everything near antenna(including you) effects the antennas "design" and performance .....

Doing a bit of experimenting and moving the antenna around a bit to find the sweet spot can often be the most beneficial thing you can do with indoor antenna to improve your reception -- On top, or near the TV turns out to often not be a good spot for it .....

Oh -- also, You'll find loads of great info about antennas+how to improve your reception here :

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/antennadex.html

well, i tried moving it around and it helped a bit. I find if I move it to get ABC.. the other channels will come up crappy then i move it, repeat. The thing is, I am in a cramped room so there's not many places to move it. hxxp://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00084ia8.jpg, (change xx to tt) there's a futon on the other side and that's my room basically. I am thinkin about moving it to living room since it's a big open space with a big window and moving the current living room TV there? It's too cramped I think.


LOST TONIGHT! YEAH BABY


I just bought my tv tonight and I thought high-def was so so like watching jeopardy and crap.. then dancing with the stars came on..

high def blew me away. amazing.

I just bought my tv tonight and I thought high-def was so so like watching jeopardy and crap.. then dancing with the stars came on..

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Jeopardy isn't being carried in HD in this area so, as you might already know, not everything you get is in HD.

It isn't in HD.... He said it was "so so" (meaning disappointed ??) when watching those shows. Once Dancing With The Stars came on, he obviously saw the difference.

Time Warner tech had to come out and replace my amplifier, anyways I asked him why we haven't gotten any new HD channels and he said he doesn't know why they arent adding any, he said in Dayton there is plenty of bandwidth available for more channels. Who knows, I just want more damn channels in HD.

I just purchased time warner cable.. and got HD with every channel available. They gave me a 3205HD box and I am using a DVI --> HDMI converter with it. This is amazing. I am watching "Bikini Destination" on HDnet. wowza. They gave me a box model 3250HD

Time Warner tech had to come out and replace my amplifier, anyways I asked him why we haven't gotten any new HD channels and he said he doesn't know why they arent adding any, he said in Dayton there is plenty of bandwidth available for more channels. Who knows, I just want more damn channels in HD.

Time Warner is very difficult when it comes to carriage negotiations. Watch them drop WRGT and WKEF the next time retransmission contracts are up for renewal. (Of course that's because Sinclair is just as pigheaded as TWC...)

Anyone with TWC service know if they've switched to digital simulcasting yet ?? I stopped asking my contact a while ago and since dropping TWC, haven't had any conversations with that person.

the analog channels still look analog to me, so I'm guessing no. Unless I'm misunderstanding what that term means.

If you have a set-top, you can tune to what is typically an analog channel and then go into the diagnostics menus. One of those pages will tell you if it's analog or digital. Basically, any channel between 2 and 78 were analog and if they're simulcasting, they'd be digital now if you have a set-top.

If you can't see a difference though, they're likely still analog. From what I've read from people in Columbus and NE Ohio, who are simulcasting, it's a noticable improvement.

is there no seriously no NBC on Time Warner Digital Cable or am I missing something? I just returned my antenna back to radio shack..

No NBC HD on TWC.

TWC does NOT carry WDTN-DT. They do carry WDTN. TWC doesn't hide this fact... I see a footnote (fine print) about it in every piece of literature I've seen from them when it talks about HD channels.

Noticed that 8pm Monday night WBDT-DT Switched to CW HD feed at 8pm, but there were problems and they quickly dropped back to SD ....

Haven't seen any HD from them since, assume they're working on it since they've allways been very good about providing HD .... Last I checked Sunday evening during "easyview"(err ... or whatever they're calling it, now), HD was fine from them ...

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Update : Well, Good news CW HD from WBDT-DT is back at 9pm tonight ...

If you have a set-top, you can tune to what is typically an analog channel and then go into the diagnostics menus. One of those pages will tell you if it's analog or digital. Basically, any channel between 2 and 78 were analog and if they're simulcasting, they'd be digital now if you have a set-top.

If you can't see a difference though, they're likely still analog. From what I've read from people in Columbus and NE Ohio, who are simulcasting, it's a noticable improvement.

Wonder if those simulcast channels will be "in the clear" for those of us who have QAM tuners. I'm already paying for the same content in analog as the "classic cable" package...

From Friday's Dayton Daily News:

Marc Katz, TV/Media Insider (page B2)

Nine things my TV could do without

(I won't list all of them, just the relevant one)

3. Speaking of Time Warner -- and LIN Broadcasting, which owns our local NBC affiliate, WDTN -- if corporate hasn't come up with a solution to the high-definition TV problem after three years, what makes us believe there is ever going to a solution ?


Things that make you go "huh?"!

When I want to watch NBC (which is infrequent) - I use the OTA antenna and watch channel 5 out of Cinci just to spite WDTN.

Things that make you go "huh?"! Maybe he doesn't have a TV with a built-in tuner or doesn't have a standalone HD receiver. Just because he's a so-called "tv/media insider" doesn't mean he's a technophile.... :) If he really wanted WDTN in HD, he can get it. I suspect he doesn't know how though.

I also e-mailed him after reading that column and "thanked" him for bringing the issue up. He never replied at all.....

Over the last few days I have experienced video / audio issues with WHIO Channel 7 using an over-the-air antenna / Direct TV TIVO recorder. Has anyone else experience any issues with Dayton CBS (WHIO) -- just trying to troubleshoot and trying to determine if I am having a problem or if WHIO is having probles -- it appears the other channels are being received without a problem.

I have 2 issues/questions:

1. Why does the Bengals game look so-so in HD and it's not taking up the full screen? The Baltimore game looks amazing. The game on 707 TW CBS WHIO in HD - not so good.

2. The Adventures of New Christine (also on 707) last year and this year seems to have an odd audio problem where you can't hear the people talk but the sound track is very loud. None of the other shows on that channel, even on the same day & on either side of this show, have the same problem.

Again my issues/questions are related to using HD on channel 707 (WHIO CBS) and isn't over the air (OTA) but I'll check that...

Thanks in advance for any insight?

Maybe he doesn't have a TV with a built-in tuner or doesn't have a standalone HD receiver. Just because he's a so-called "tv/media insider" doesn't mean he's a technophile.... :) If he really wanted WDTN in HD, he can get it. I suspect he doesn't know how though.

I also e-mailed him after reading that column and "thanked" him for bringing the issue up. He never replied at all.....

I'm sure he knows how to get WDTN OTA... I imagine he was just emphasizing the point / issue we all have which is why can't TW and WDTN/LIN get this issue resolved. It's great you gave him a pat on the back.. maybe more exposure will help...

I have 2 issues/questions:

2. The Adventures of New Christine (also on 707) last year and this year seems to have an odd audio problem where you can't hear the people talk but the sound track is very loud. None of the other shows on that channel, even on the same day & on either side of this show, have the same problem.

Thanks in advance for any insight?

No answer, but this problem was there last year too. I had to stop watching it sometimes because the problem so pronounced.

1. Why does the Bengals game look so-so in HD and it's not taking up the full screen? The Baltimore game looks amazing. The game on 707 TW CBS WHIO in HD - not so good. The game is NOT in HD. I had it on for a bit and was surprised it wasn't, so I checked WHIO's website which also shows it's not in HD.

The game is NOT in HD. I had it on for a bit and was surprised it wasn't, so I checked WHIO's website which also shows it's not in HD.

That would explain it. How stupid!

The Steelers game is on the same channel and is in high def and looks awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first half of the Steelers game was in high-def. Ever since half-time it's back in SD. I'm watching on TWC. Anyone else seeing this?


EDIT: Nevermind, at the start of the 4th Qtr it just switched back to HD.

Anyone else having trouble with WKEF's digital feed OTA recently? I've been completely losing the signal at times, with all the rest of my channels coming in fine.

Thanks!

I've always had a bit of an issue with WKEF's signal. Not quite sure what it is.

I've been having issues with WHIO's DD5.1 signal (I only watch it during the NFL so it isn't a huge deal). The announcers voice periodically drops out of the center channel to the front left channel, then comes back a minute later or so. Anybody else seen this (I get WHIO-DT OTA)?

BTW, you ruined the 30 day silent period that we were working on in this thread :). Hall and I were watching with great interest to see if it would make it a month without a post.

Last time I checked the FCC's website, WKEF was the weakest digital station in the area (only counting the major networks). They are at 138kW whereas WDTN and WHIO are at 1000kW and WRGT is at 425kW.

Oh, thanks for ruining the lull.... :)

Last time I checked the FCC's website, WKEF was the weakest digital station in the area (only counting the major networks).

It depends where you are located, some stations are using directional antenna patterns. For instance, according to the antenna pattern info on it from FCC site, I get about 36KW ERP thrown in my direction from WHIO-DT, and about 1500 Watts ERP from WBDT-DT. I have no problems receiving either station, nor any of the others for that matter ...

To properly figure ERP sent in your direction from the relative field values shown on FCC site(antenna pattern info is shown on TV query if you use the detailed info+CDBS links function) use the following formula :

(Relative field value in your direction Squared) X Watts ERP listed for their operating permit(also the same as relative field value of 1.000) = ERP being sent in your direction.

So in my case at 220 degree true bearing from WHIO tower its:

(.190x.190) x 1,000,000 watts = 36KW ERP being sent in my direction ....



They are at 138kW whereas WDTN and WHIO are at 1000kW and WRGT is at 425kW


138KW ERP is only about 8db less than 1000KW ERP. Each 1/2'ing of power is about -3db(about the same as the loss of a 2 way splitter, or to put it another way about 1db or so less than the loss on UHF frequencies in 100FT of RG6).

Typically, within 20 miles or so of the transmitter site you can easily have 40~60db more signal than you need .... Putting antenna indoors "generally" (very general rule of thumb) decreases signal by about 20db. WKEF-DT's coverage area is about 55 miles radius --- meaning for example it reaches into Northern KY. Here's WKEF-DT predicted coverage area map from FCC site :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT562360.html

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Many reception related dropouts are caused by issues other than poor signal strength. As just one example, when leaves fall off trees it can change the signal conditions(multipath for example - and remember, multipath which the receiver can't correct for is just seen as noise, as is interference or intermod/etc.) and in some cases "seasonal" adjustment of of antennas can be required .... From what I've observed, this sort of thing can probably be even a bit more problematical on higher frequencies, where the signal can be more easily disturbed given the shorter wavelengths involved, perhaps especially so when the wind blows the tree limbs around, and/or there are some terrain shielding(or other attenuation issues) issues involved as well ....

Also -- I'm not sure if there's been a lot of testing on this, but some of the reading I've done suggests that some problems that seem to "mimic" multipath can occur due to such issues as wind blowing tree limbs around+causing signal disturbances(such as rapid fading conditions) such that the AGC circuits (automatic gain control) in receiver's can't quite keep up with it - causing dropouts which one might mistakenly associate with dynamic multipath conditions --

Perhaps there are certian tree species for which this isn't the case, but in general -- Trees/leaves don't "cause" multipath(they are signal "attenuators" to a small extent however), but I expect leaves being on or off trees can effect multipath conditions ....

Of course, it's also possible WKEF-DT could be having problems or have been off air for short periods/etc, In that regard I can only report that I haven't noticed any problems when I've been watching them.

I've always had a bit of an issue with WKEF's signal. Not quite sure what it is.

I've been having issues with WHIO's DD5.1 signal (I only watch it during the NFL so it isn't a huge deal). The announcers voice periodically drops out of the center channel to the front left channel, then comes back a minute later or so. Anybody else seen this (I get WHIO-DT OTA)?


Yes. I believe it's been mentioned earlier in this thread as well.

I'd like to think they are on the ball+monitoring the audio - regardless of what's causing the issue - if so, perhaps that's why it's getting switched back to DD 5.1(with the center channel active) so quickly as of late .. The first time I noticed it occuring during one of the first weeks of NFL this year, it was much longer between instances of getting the announcers back in the center channel .....

I haven't watched much on CBS besides NFL this fall either, but I don't think I've noticed it occuring other than during Football ...

Anyone else having trouble with WKEF's digital feed OTA recently? I've been completely losing the signal at times, with all the rest of my channels coming in fine.

Thanks!

Received a note from WKEF engineer today, asking if I had noticed any problems since 11/7, as he said they've received a couple of calls from viewers reporting "freezing" OTA every 7 or 8 minutes or so ... BTW, so the below makes more sense, he also asked if the Dayton thread on AVS was having any problems .....

Having not noticed any problems with WKEF-DT+also recalling your post, I thought I should try to investigate a little further before reporting back to him - Which I did, and I *may* have found something somewhat interesting ---- So --- Follows is my response to him(but with some grammar corrections, oops!) :

============================

I was about to say I haven't noticed any problems from WKEF-DT here -- but, I haven't had a chance to monitor or watch much TV as of late ... Asked other family members here who watched "Dancing With the Stars" on 22.1 earlier this week and they also reported no problems(note related to below - they were watching via Sony KD34XBR960's internal ATSC receiver).

However, I may have just ran into something odd, unless it's one of my receivers getting ready to bite the dust -- On either 22.1 or 22.2 between 5:25~5:45PM 11/10 --- While I'm experiencing no problems whatsoever from 22.1 or 22.2 with ATSC receiver internal to a Sony KD34XBR960 HDTV :

However, checking the results "side by side" with another receiver (Zenith HDV420) --- During that same time period the Zenith apparently completely lost the ability to decode audio+video streams from WKEF-DT on several occasions for brief periods(a second or two) - It's happening on both 22.1+22.2 ... Even stranger was the behavior of the receiver during those short periods, as it nearly "mimicked" what would occur if I cycled power to it, except the LED's on the front panel remained "on" ... For instance, the Signal quality meter on it disappeared from the screen(which doesn't usually happen if reception drops below threshold, or audio/video streams don't decode properly for some other reason), and the speakers on the TV "popped" a bit, and the short period of "blank screen" had attributes of losing H/V sync(if that makes any sense) --- much as you might expect if you were turning the receiver off and back on ....

Very odd, as it certianly seems to look like a problem with the receiver, although, I've never seen this particular behavior from it in the past, and spending about 15 minutes with it tuned to other stations, I'm not seeing it occur with other stations at this point either ...

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Concerning AVS forum Dayton Thread - No problems I'm aware of, other than, up until yesterday there wasn't much activity there --- Yesterday, one fellow did report he was experiencing issues with WKEF-DT -- I "interpeted" his post as a RF signal/reception related issue, although that may not be correct. Here is a link to the Dayton thread/his post :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8855205&&#post8855205

Jeff

PS - Have a nice weekend!

Quick update to my last post -- As of 8:35pm This evening (Fri 11/10), I've
left WKEF-DT (VC 22.1) up via the Zenith HDV420 receiver since around
7pm, have been closely monitoring it(especially between 7:55+8:35pm) and there have been no problems, including during the first 35 minutes of HD for "Grey's anatomy".

So, don't know what was going on with only the Zenith(as described in last post)receiver here around 5:30pm, but it isn't occuring now and all seems well from WKEF-DT ...

I presume and hope the Ohio State/Michigan game on 11/18 will be broadcast on ABC in HD? The game is listed as being on ABC at 3:30pm, but no sites have it listed as HD yet.

Can't see how they'd not broadcast the biggest game of the year in HD though.

A quick glance at TitanTV's schedule for the 18th doesn't show any games in HD. I take that to mean nothing's finalized (publically). I do think it's safe to assume this one will be in HD though..... I certainly have been expecting it to !

Scratch all that.... ESPN's website lists "College Football presented by Best Buy - Michigan vs. Ohio State HD".

I presume and hope the Ohio State/Michigan game on 11/18 will be broadcast on ABC in HD?

Yes - OSU vs Michigan will be broadcast in HD from ABC as confirmed by WKEF engineer.

For what it's worth, I use this site to find out what sporting events are going to be broadcast in HD:

www.hdsportsguide.com (http://www.hdsportsguide.com/)

I've never found it to be wrong.

Phil

Has any other TWC subscribers had the issue of not receiving 22-1, 22-2 and 45-2, 45-3 when having their cable plugged into their NTSC/ATSC tuner built into their TV's?

I just noticed this Saturday night that I wasn't receiving anything on these channels anymore, yet their was still a signal present. I still get all the PBS and CBS stations over ATSC as well as the few muisc choice and PPV preview channels (etc.) that come through.

Are you referring to your QAM tuner? I didn't think that TWC sent anything over ATSC.

Are you referring to your QAM tuner? I didn't think that TWC sent anything over ATSC.

It may be but the television has no documentation on QAM only ATSC. But I am unable to tune in TNT-HD or DISC-HD etc. so I'm assuming it's ATSC.

Update:

Ok, after reading some past posts it looks like the TNT-HD and DISC-HD are being scrambled now in QAM (and my tv does report on some channels that the video is scrambled). And based on what I read it looks like my TV does have a QAM tuner and that's where I'm getting the channels from.

So if anyone has a current list of QAM channels that they are receiving I would appreciate them posting it so I can check it out with my TV. (I can't seem to find the old posts where this has been posted).