It was expected to occur by December 31, 2006 or when 85% of households in any given market had the capability to receive digital signals ...

Given the relatively unknown and expensive nature of DTV receivers prior to the CECB program, and that only a few models of(expensive) Sets had DTV receivers in them until manufactuers were forced to include them per a "phased in by screen size" schedule which didn't go into full effect for All TV's until Mid-2007 (after the original expected date for analog shut off)..... It would have obviously been a LONG TIME before that 85% requirement was met, thus in late 2005 they made the "hard date" for analog shut off Feb 17, 2009 (so much for that), and thus we also had the CECB program(funded by a small portion of the proceeds of the Ch52~69 auctions, BTW) ...

Given that channels 52-69 are going away after the transition, this is untrue. WPTD-DT has a permit to relocate back to channel 16.

- Trip

Actually, they are moving the digital down to 16 after analog shutoff. 58 is out of the core range of digital channels.

Edit...Oops, guess Trip beat me to it!

My bad on that one... that's why I said "I think". I couldn't remember and I was too lazy to look it up.

In what country are you living? Don't you realize it's our government's job to cater to the morons, the lazy, and procrastinators?

Preachin' to the choir, man... preachin' to the choir. :mad:


...thus in late 2005 they made the "hard date" for analog shut off Feb 17, 2009 (so much for that)...
Anyone wanna start placing bets on whether the switch really occurs on the new date, or gets pushed back again?

FYI

Tuning Adapters are available at the TWC Dayton Mall store. I picked mine up last night and am in the process of getting it working now.

The box includes the TA, a USB cable, coax cable, power cord, and power brick. Setup was simple. I plugged the coax from the wall into the TA, plugged coax from the TA to the Tivo, plugged the USB cable from the TA into the Tivo, plugged the power in and hit the power button.

I checked CNNHD and HallmarkHD since they're the only ones I was sure are SDV but they weren't working. So I'm re-running the Guided Setup now. I just did a channel test and CNNHD and HallmarkHD are now both working so I expect that once the Guided Setup is complete everything will be working. Yay!

Edit: Setup is complete and I'm receiving all of the SDV channels including Palladia (not that I actually care...)

I guess I wonder how many people really "care" about that sort of detail. I understand you (probably) do and that's fine. I just think this thread is more for the "viewer" aspect of the local stations, not the behind-the-scenes, nitty-gritty aspect of how things operate.

Maybe it's just me though.... If so, carry on :D

Yes, it's just you. :D

I find this information extremely useful and informative.

FYI

Tuning Adapters are available at the TWC Dayton Mall store. I picked mine up last night and am in the process of getting it working now.

The box includes the TA, a USB cable, coax cable, power cord, and power brick. Setup was simple. I plugged the coax from the wall into the TA, plugged coax from the TA to the Tivo, plugged the USB cable from the TA into the Tivo, plugged the power in and hit the power button.

I checked CNNHD and HallmarkHD since they're the only ones I was sure are SDV but they weren't working. So I'm re-running the Guided Setup now. I just did a channel test and CNNHD and HallmarkHD are now both working so I expect that once the Guided Setup is complete everything will be working. Yay!

Edit: Setup is complete and I'm receiving all of the SDV channels including Palladia (not that I actually care...)

My experience matches yours, except that I did not have to re-run Guided Setup. I don't see that you had the TiVo unplugged from the AC while you were doing the TA connections. I did, and when the TiVo powered back up, it found the TA with no problems.

WTF.. No analog shut off in the Dayton area:mad:. WHIO, WDTN and ThinkTV16 all said they where pulling the analog plug and going full Digital.

Does our/the US Gov. really think those who aren't ready now will take the extra 4 months to up-grade or at least get a STB? Some may but I doubt all will.

Pull the plug,
hyghwayman

P.S. I just needed to vent, sorry:o.

People over at satelliteguys.us are reporting the the Dayton (HD) locals, with the exception of PBS, are now available.

People over at satelliteguys.us are reporting the the Dayton (HD) locals, with the exception of PBS, are now available.

They're up! :) Well, with the exception of WPTD (PBS) and WBDT (CW). And there was much rejoicing...

I have had a hell of a time at my location getting workable network HD using the off-air signals. Anytime the wind blows, the multipath kills my off-air reception.

TWC today added ch 726 WBDT-hd and 730 WKOI-DT. Ch 731 - 734 are the WKOI sub channels. Seems conveniant they were added on Feb. 18th. Must have been in the works for some time...

This week, WHIO channel 7 changed something in it's digital transmission signature so that I lost the signal on my DirecTv HD Tivo OTA channel list. I re-scanned for OTA channels and got it back with a different name - WHIO-HD instead of WHIODT. The problem is, I get no program information, so, of course, I can't record anything. It's been about 20 hours. I reset the receiver to reacquire satellite info., but no change (I can't recall whether program info. for OTA comes from the sat. or OTA). Any ideas? (I have a call into WHIO; a call to DirecTv is next, but I figure the people here know more.)

DirecTV is probably doing a simple "match" between their guide data and a pre-determined name that the station transmits with their signal. D* is looking for "WHIO-DT" and not finding a match. I think you need to call D* more so than WHIO.

Does anyone know if the digital delay act (law) pushes back the digital must carry date as well? I assume this is what happened with WBDT and WKOI on TWC. There was never any evidence of negotiations between the two so must carry would explain their addition. My question is how long till TWC yanks those channels from us claming June 12th is the new date.

Something had to change this week with WHIO as also lost the signal through my DirecTv HR20-100 DVR. I re-scanned this morning and now I can receive 7.1 but not 7.2.

Is this a WHIO problem or a DTv issue?

Thanks,
John

Does anyone know if the digital delay act (law) pushes back the digital must carry date as well? I assume this is what happened with WBDT and WKOI on TWC. There was never any evidence of negotiations between the two so must carry would explain their addition. My question is how long till TWC yanks those channels from us claming June 12th is the new date.

I doubt it has anything to do with it. Chances are is that this stations just contracted with TWC starting on the 17th since that was the day that the digital switch was supposed to take place. I doubt you'll see these channels taken away...

Something had to change this week with WHIO as also lost the signal through my DirecTv HR20-100 DVR. I re-scanned this morning and now I can receive 7.1 but not 7.2.

Is this a WHIO problem or a DTv issue?

Thanks,
John

Id say a DTv issue. Coming in fine for me through Dish.

Yeap, must be an issue with D* receivers. No one else reported any trouble, i.e. those who are OTA only, nor did any Dish customers (which I am and WHIO's .1 and .2 channels still come in fine for me, no re-scan either).

My HR20-100 shows a full strength signal on both 7.1 and 7.2 but is get the no signal message when tuning to either channel. My H20-100s work fine.

Why are the DTV transition crawls being run on the digital channels? Aren't those watching digital channels already prepared?

Not knowing the channel, program or time you're referring to, my only guesses are that the crawls are appearing due to upconverted content from their main programming channel, incase the viewer doesn't have all of their TVs ready (some cable, some ATSC, some NTSC in one house), to make the viewer more knowledgeable so they can help friends, or to serve as a reminder that just because they're watching a DTV broadcast doesn't mean they're impervious to the transition (i.e. will need to rescan after the transition).

Why are the DTV transition crawls being run on the digital channels? Aren't those watching digital channels already prepared? I've always wondered that myself.... WHIO keeps advertising a "DTV hotline" but from what I've caught, it's an answering machine. Maybe someone can call and ask.

My HR20-100 shows a full strength signal on both 7.1 and 7.2 but is get the no signal message when tuning to either channel. My H20-100s work fine.

Same here. Hopefully this will be fixed in time for the Dayton game tonight on WHIO.

channel 45s digital channels signal is down to 0 it was in the 90s last nite. now i don't have any fox digital channels. does anybody have channel 45.1 and 45.2?

channel 45s digital channels signal is down to 0 it was in the 90s last nite. now i don't have any fox digital channels. does anybody have channel 45.1 and 45.2?

They are both fine on my HR10-250.

Rock solid on my D* HR21-100.

channel 45s digital channels signal is down to 0 it was in the 90s last nite. now i don't have any fox digital channels. does anybody have channel 45.1 and 45.2?

Coming in strong via OTA.

I'm having the same issue with a standard HD TiVo (non-directtv). WHIODT still appears as a channel with the full guide but zero strength, where WHIO-HD shows up beautifully but with no guide. I've had no luck getting an answer for this yet. I'm using an OTA antenna, btw.

I'm having the same issue with a standard HD TiVo (non-directtv). WHIODT still appears as a channel with the full guide but zero strength, where WHIO-HD shows up beautifully but with no guide. I've had no luck getting an answer for this yet. I'm using an OTA antenna, btw.
Yesterday (2/24) I started getting reception on the WHIODT again. Indeed, I now get reception on both versions, but the guide on only WHIODT. So, I removed the new version, reset all my Season Passes, and I'm back in business.

Yesterday (2/24) I started getting reception on the WHIODT again. Indeed, I now get reception on both versions, but the guide on only WHIODT. So, I removed the new version, reset all my Season Passes, and I'm back in business.
I was just going to say, I bet those who had the problem had it resolved yesterday. I get notifications when my guide data for SnapStream BeyondTV wants to update my channel lineup, and it looks like whoever is providing the guide data for all of these services changed WHIO's digital channel from "041" to "007," which caused the problem. Yesterday, I got a notification saying that WHIO-DT was changed from "007" to "041."

Just a warning to those that had the WHIO guide problems: I got a notification last night that WBDT-DT had switched from 018 to 026. Unless I missed something, WBDT did not switch to 26 yet, so this will most likely break some things...

I've read through as best I can, but 193 pages over 7 years is a lot.

I am curious about the must carry rules. Will Time Warner be required to carry all OTA HDTV channels without requiring a converter box. My HDTV seems to pick up 2.1, 7.1-2,22.1, 14.1-6, 16.1-6 and 45.1, but not 26.1 (WB) or any of the 43.x channels. I would like to have the WB in HDTV. I know they offer these for those who want to shell out an extra 8 bucks a month, but that doesn't seem like "must carry" to me.

It's cheap enough that they seem to block all guide info, thus forcing you to rent a box if you want program information (I noticed that with an antenna, OTA program info is sent just fine, but it's always "Info not avail." when hooked up to Time Warner.

Any consensus on Must Carry? Will things change when the new deadline hits?

IIRC cable operators are supposed to offer the local channels they carry on the lowest available tier. It has been my understanding that TWC fills that qualification by offering the locals in an analog format. It seems to me that TWC and most other cable providers are going the extra mile by not encrypting the digital locals they carry.

"Must Carry" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must-carry#United_States) is a different ball game. "Must Carry" and "Retransmission Consent" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retransmission_consent) are the options local broadcasters have in regards to cable carriage. If a broadcaster selects the "Retransmission consent" option then they can request compensation from the cable company. The "Must Carry" option does not provide a compensation option for the broadcaster.

Now in regards to channels your HDTV cannot find unencrypted. It's unclear from your email if you checked channels that didn't map via PSIP (did you look in the multitude of digital channels from ~100 and up?). If they carry the channel on their digital tier, then it's carried on a frequency (channel) and program id (.x part of the channel), the trick is finding it. Additionally some tuners have troubles picking up channels (my HDTV couldn't pick up a channel even though it was unencrypted and the cable box could find it).

It seems to me that TWC and most other cable providers are going the extra mile by not encrypting the digital locals they carry. I've read -- and this isn't my opinion of an FCC "rule" -- that cable operators are supposed to provide these channels unencrypted also. Of course, this is the opinion of "viewers", who will read things one way. I'm sure the cable operators have an opinion that's 180' opposite of that based on the same rule.

anyone's digital cable with TWC die monday night @ like 1 am? jimmy fallon didn't record and i was playing online poker and missed like 3 tournies i was deep in cause the interent died too, sigh. weird. was down for half an hour or so. the main channels (read: non HD showed up fine).

Could someone please tell me if they actually get the HD channels for 26 (CW) and 43 (TBN) without a Time Warner Converter box or an antenna. I.E., do you get them with Time Warner basic cable? I'm trying to figure out if my new set won't pick them up or if Time Warner is not broadcasting them unencrypted.

Could someone please tell me if they actually get the HD channels for 26 (CW) and 43 (TBN) without a Time Warner Converter box or an antenna. I.E., do you get them with Time Warner basic cable? I'm trying to figure out if my new set won't pick them up or if Time Warner is not broadcasting them unencrypted.

You probably won't. Those channels weren't carried on the QAM signals when I had Time Warner. Things could have changed since then, I canceled Time Warner around 2 years ago.

Could someone please tell me if they actually get the HD channels for 26 (CW) and 43 (TBN) without a Time Warner Converter box or an antenna. I.E., do you get them with Time Warner basic cable? I'm trying to figure out if my new set won't pick them up or if Time Warner is not broadcasting them unencrypted.

I pick up both channels (26 and 43) in Germantown without a set-top box on a HDTV with a quam tuner in it. Both channels came on about the 18 of Feb. . You may have to rescan for the channels.

Hmm... my tv is supposed to have an ATSC/NTSC/QAM Tuner. One would not instinctively know they need different type of HDTV tuners when shopping for a television, though. Many just advertise as having an "HDTV tuner." It's a Toshiba 32AV502U.

Anyone else have a current Time Warner subscription who can chime in? I have rescanned a few times with no change in channels. My signal on the channels I do receive seems to be fine (mid to high 90s).

Even though I am two hours away from Dayton I like to keep up to date on what is happening there so I check out the Dayton forums. I used to visit some friends there, but they moved away several states farther east some time ago. Here in Indy, we have three of the four major network affiliates showing local news in HD. How many of your major fours are in HD? I know that LIN owns channel 2 (WDTN) just like they own Indy's channel 8 (WISH-TV).

Even though I am two hours away from Dayton I like to keep up to date on what is happening there so I check out the Dayton forums. I used to visit some friends there, but they moved away several states farther east some time ago. Here in Indy, we have three of the four major network affiliates showing local news in HD. How many of your major fours are in HD? I know that LIN owns channel 2 (WDTN) just like they own Indy's channel 8 (WISH-TV).

Just WHIO (channel 7, CBS) has their local news in HD in Dayton. In Cincinnati (where I'm from now, but I went to college at UD), WCPO (channel 9, ABC) and WXIX (channel 19, FOX) have their local news in HD.

Personally, I would rather see all of the analog transmitters shut down and scrapped for recycling purposes than any more stations doing HD news at this point. :mad:

[QUOTE=ThoraX695;15961472]Just WHIO (channel 7, CBS) has their local news in HD in Dayton....QUOTE]

It's not actually HD, just widescreen, but it does look amazingly better than anything else in Dayton.

anyone's digital cable with TWC die monday night @ like 1 am? jimmy fallon didn't record and i was playing online poker and missed like 3 tournies i was deep in cause the interent died too, sigh. weird. was down for half an hour or so. the main channels (read: non HD showed up fine).

I lost roadrunner about that time.

One would not instinctively know they need different type of HDTV tuners when shopping for a television, though. Many just advertise as having an "HDTV tuner." I'm confident that the average person who buys an HDTV doesn't know the first about "QAM", nor will most ever use it. In many cases, the cableco doesn't provide "re-map" info so in order to watch WHIO's digital channel, you have to tune to channel 87.42. Again, will the average person do this ? IMO, no....

As for your particular TV, there may be some minor incompatibility between it's QAM implementation and what TW is using. TW certainly won't help either. If you call them and say "QAM", the response you'll get is likely to be "kwam what ?".

First part originally posted on the TW thread under Programming...

Since I apparently am not good enough to get AT&T Uverse (see other thread for that rant), I had a TW tech out again today to try to figure out why my newish Sony 32" 720p LCD with a 8300HD DVR can't hold a signal consistently and why VOD never works until we do a reset on the DVR.

For the first time ever (over the last 4.5 years), the tech shows up with a good meter to check signal strength and a PDA that allows him to pull data about my service from the TW server. Wow. Maybe TW is actually a provider of high speed online services.

After testing signal strength inside and out, he decides the problem is the cable running from the wall to the DVR. Sounds stupid to me, but he replaces the cable and viola! the picture looks the best it ever has in the 4 months we've had the TV. We'll see how long the fix lasts. As always, I remain cautiously optimistic.

New information follows:

So I ask him if there is anything new coming down the pike for the customers and he says that the "D" button on the remote will be activated soon. If you change channels at X:59 and hit the "D" button, you'll hook into the TW server and be able to watch the show on the new channel from the beginning. No pausing, ff or rewinding will be possible b/c it'll be running from the "TW office" instead of your DVR, but at least you can watch it.

I wonder if I'd ever use that feature.

It's not actually HD, just widescreen, but it does look amazingly better than anything else in Dayton.

It fooled me. :)

By the way, WSTR 64 here in Cincinnati shut down their analog transmitter at midnight this morning.

So I ask him if there is anything new coming down the pike for the customers and he says that the "D" button on the remote will be activated soon. If you change channels at X:59 and hit the "D" button, you'll hook into the TW server and be able to watch the show on the new channel from the beginning. No pausing, ff or rewinding will be possible b/c it'll be running from the "TW office" instead of your DVR, but at least you can watch it.

Sounds like their ~4 year old "Start Over" feature may finally be hitting the area:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/business/2005-10-24-nbc-timewarner-rewind_x.htm

what the heck is going on with channel 16, all the digital channels are off the air. now i dont have any pbs digital channels.

and now i have lost channel 26.1 what the hell are my dayton stations doing?

You have equipment issues.

What receiver(s) are you using ? Is your antenna secure ? All the cabling connections secure ?

what the heck is going on with channel 16, all the digital channels are off the air. now i dont have any pbs digital channels.


You can thank DP&l for that outage of the PBS channels.

and now i have lost channel 26.1 what the hell are my dayton stations doing?

I've been receiving 26.1 ota as long as there's been a 26.1. Not so anymore. I've reset all four of my Directv receivers (three hr20's & one hr21) with no success. This is no big deal to me as I do receive 26 from D and there is really nothing on 26 that interests me but I am curious as to what might be causing this.

I am wondering how many distant channels people are getting with OTA antennas in the Dayton area. I'm about a mile north of the Dayton Mall, myself. Looking at TVFool.com, it appears that if I'm really lucky, I should get all Cincy stations (I like a variety of sitcoms in the evening as background noise, and Dayton doesn't really have what I want right now).

So... what type of antenna set ups do people have and what channels do they get with it? In the analog days on a clear night I could pull in some pretty distant channels, but I haven't messed with that in near 30 years.

I'm about 1.5 mi south of the Dayton Mall and have no problems picking up all Dayton and Cincinnati channels (with occasional problems with 9) with a homemade antenna (from the commonly-sited internet plans) on the patio of my second floor apartment.

I've been receiving 26.1 ota as long as there's been a 26.1. Not so anymore. I've reset all four of my Directv receivers (three hr20's & one hr21) with no success. This is no big deal to me as I do receive 26 from D and there is really nothing on 26 that interests me but I am curious as to what might be causing this.

Just a guess, but I'm betting that D* hasn't updated their software to look at 26.1 instead of 18.1 for their signal. They just moved their digital channel to 26 since analog was turned off.

I've been receiving 26.1 ota as long as there's been a 26.1. Not so anymore. I've reset all four of my Directv receivers (three hr20's & one hr21) with no success. This is no big deal to me as I do receive 26 from D and there is really nothing on 26 that interests me but I am curious as to what might be causing this.

See my earlier post:
Just a warning to those that had the WHIO guide problems: I got a notification last night that WBDT-DT had switched from 018 to 026. Unless I missed something, WBDT did not switch to 26 yet, so this will most likely break some things...

UPDATE: Just noticed that the guide data has changed WBDT-DT back to 18:

3/6/2009 6:54:28 AM Channel 026 26-1 (WBDTDT) has been moved to 018 26-1 (WBDTDT). Any scheduled recordings on this channel have been updated to reflect this change.

WBDT hasn't shut down analog yet.

WBDT-DT is still on 18, analog is still on 26.

No problems here with WBDT-DT. Checked the TSID they're sending, it's still 2303 (0x08ff)

See my earlier post:


UPDATE: Just noticed that the guide data has changed WBDT-DT back to 18:

Just checked. 26.1 is showing up on all of my receivers.

I just bought a HD TV and for the past 5 year hve been too cheap to pay for cable. We watch movies and I love the HD picture. Anyway what's the best HD antenna and what else do I need to buy to get this set-up in my house. I was told by a guy at radio shack that I need to search on-line to find out how close certain stations are to my house. I'm getting a good idea from this blog but is there a website that lists locations? Tanks for the help.

- Todd Charske


Thanks for the help you guys rock!


Todd Charske

Stations Intending to Terminate Analog Service Prior to June 12

Dayton WPTD 5-1-09
WKOI 4-16-09

Cincinnati WCET 5-1-09
WCVN 4-16-09
WKON 4-16-09
WPTO 5-1-09

From the FCC website

WHIO will be televising Dayton Dragon's games on 7-2.



WHIO-TV To Broadcast Dayton Dragons Games On 7.2

Posted: 4:40 pm EDT March 19, 2009
DAYTON, Ohio -- WHIO-TV will be the exclusive home for Dragons baseball in 2009 and beyond. The station announced on March 19 that they will carry a 15-game schedule on digital channel 7.2.
WHIO-TV will carry the team’s television schedule through 2011.
The games will feature color commentary from former Cincinnati Reds players and coaches. Announcer Tom Nichols will be joined by former Reds infielder Bill Doran in the opening night game on April 9.
April 9 - Great Lakes Loons (Season Opener) / Thursday 7pm
April 24 - Great Lakes Loons / Friday 7pm
May 8 - Kane County Cougars / Friday 7pm
May 9 - Kane County Cougars / Saturday 7pm
May 15 - West Michigan Whitecaps / Friday 7pm
May 29 - Cedar Rapids Kernels / Friday 7pm
May 30 - Cedar Rapids Kernels / Saturday 7pm
June 19 - West Michigan Whitecaps / Friday 7pm
June 20 - West Michigan Whitecaps / Saturday 7pm
July 17 - Quad Cities River Bandits / Friday 7pm
July 18 - Quad Cities River Bandits / Saturday 7pm
July 31 - Burlington Bees / Friday 7pm
Aug 1 - Burlington Bees / Saturday 7pm
Aug 21 - West Michigan Whitecaps / Friday 7pm
Aug 22 - West Michigan Whitecaps / Saturday 7pm
“We are thrilled to be part of the Dayton region’s love affair with the Dayton Dragons and to carry their 2009 television baseball schedule on WHIO-TV’s new digital channel, 7.2,” said Harry Delaney, WHIO-TV Vice President and General Manager.
Channel 7.2 is the home for 7 Weather Now, the Dayton region’s only local, around-the-clock weather channel. Viewers can watch WHIO-TV 7.2 on Time Warner Cable channel 708 or over the air on digital channel 7.2.
WHIO-TV Channel 7 is a Cox Television Station and CBS Affiliate. Cox Television includes 15 television stations, 3 national television sales representation firms, a television production company, and a Washington DC news bureau. Cox Television is a subsidiary of Cox Enterprises, Inc., based in Atlanta.

Anyone notice that WHIO is not passing on the full 5.1 surround sound for the NCAA tournament? Anyone have any contact at WHIO so this can be fixed before the big game tomorrow?

I'm receiving 5.1 feed on channel 7.1.

Whle my receiver shows it is getting 5.1, nothing is coming out of my rear surrounds. I am getting the rear surrounds on WBNS-DT.

hey guys, i looked to AT&T and they have nice internet/TV packages and im thinkin about switchin from time warner/road runner. i really love DVr like too damn much, and lookin through the channel list it has alot more HD channels, is cheaper and can record 4 TV shows at once. i need the internet to be very reliable (ie road runner goes down like ONLY once every 6 months) so extremely reliable, will the at&t one be jus as reliable? (i work on the internet and have a backup but still it takes a few min to get up and running). basically, can someone give me a reason NOT to switch? will the interent be jus as good? i get 8 mbps on roadrunner and there is a 6 mbps is fastest for at&t for their internet so i would probagbly get that. any help/advice is appreciated - should i switch?. thank you.

+1^^^^

Got confirmation that I can get Uverse at my house. After 4 TW technicians in less than a week, everything is working as it should. Now that's fixed, do I switch? TIA for your viewpoint.

Minimal searching on this site should turn up that you're limited to 2 HD streams per house (sometimes just one) or 4 SD streams per house and that the PQ is fairly lousy. So, if you have 4 TVs (that you want to watch independent shows on) or more than 1-2 HDTVs, U-verse may not be the best choice. As far as HSI goes, I haven't heard any complaints on that front. Now that HSI can be purchased without TV or phone, we may start hearing more reviews on that service.

Does anyone have recommendations for reliable/trustworthy TV repair people in the Dayton area ? My TV is a Toshiba 57H83, a rear-projection unit, that needs what I believe is a "re-alignment" of the "guns". Well, it's been a while, and after a number of recommendations that suggested using "Chad B", http://www.hdtvbychadB.com/, he and I were finally able to arrange a visit and he came by yesterday. He fixed the alignment (focus) problem (to much relief, when he saw it, he said "no problem" ... I was afraid it may be un-repairable), cleaned the lenses, and adjusted the picture settings and WOW ! I doubt the TV's picture has ever looked this good !

Hall,

I think you had a slight mis-spelling of the url. It's http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/

He did pretty decent alignment on my Toshiba RPTV after the tech that HHG uses totally screwed it up after replacing a board.

Paul

Just out of curiosity, do you mind telling me how much he charges?

Just out of curiosity, do you mind telling me how much he charges? He gives his pricing on his website. Click on "Display Types", pick your TV type, and it will give the price.

just lost pbs 16 , giving no signal, is anyone else experencing this problem. only pbs stations i can get is 16.

just lost pbs 16 , giving no signal, is anyone else experencing this problem. only pbs stations i can get is 16.

Channel 16 on at 6:00pm here in Gtown.

yeah it came back on here, but i used to have it in the 97 percent range, now they are in the 80s. seems weird to me.

I am in the Dayton, OH area.
As of May 1, 2009 PBS went all digital and changed their frequencies and channel numbers.

I no longer get the analog Channel 16 on my older analog TV.
On May 1 my TR-40CRA converter box changed all the channel 16 numbers, and they are all now in the 70 channel range.
070-02 16DT
070-03 16Again
070-04 16Create
070-05 16Ohio
070-06 16HD

During the month of April, PBS channel 16 was giving public announcements warning this change would occur on May 1, 2009.

...my TR-40CRA converter box changed all the channel 16 numbers, and they are all now in the 70 channel range.
070-02 16DT
070-03 16Again
070-04 16Create
070-05 16Ohio
070-06 16HD



I've got the same channel numbers showing up on my DTVPal DVR.

Do a complete rescan. It's a quirk in the DTVPal software.

- Trip

On DTV PalDVR(F206), at about 1AM 5/1, I removed the WPTD-DT services from when they were on RF 58, individually from the "channel edit" list, and then used "add a new channel" to scan them in from channel 16/re-add them, it worked fine ...

BTW, WRCX-LP 40 was down Sat afternoon during their power outage along with WPTD, also WRGT analog was down for a much shorter period time as well ...

I wonder if Quallcom has backup generators for their media-flo sites ? ;)

Oh, also notice over the past several weeks it seems WPTD's 16.6 now is running the same programming schedule as 16.2, 24/7 ...

[/QUOTE]
BTW, WRCX-LP 40 was down Sat afternoon during their power outage along with WPTD, also WRGT analog was down for a much shorter period time as well ...

also notice over the past several weeks it seems WPTD's 16.6 now is running the same programming schedule as 16.2, 24/7 ...[/QUOTE]

I beleive the power outage was on Sunday between 2 and 6 pm.
The same programming on 16.2 and 16.6 started around April 1.

I had a similar problem rescanning for WPTD after the switch on May 1. After rescanning, I could not get WPTD. Upon looking at the built-in signal strength indicator, it still was associating 16-2 - 16-6 with ch. 58.

I ended up having to do a hard reset of the TV. My Toshiba HDTV, for better or for worse, keeps every channel I have ever picked up in its channel list. Even after a hard reset, it still retained this information, but it did solve the problem.

To my suprise, my DirecTV HR-23 and separate OTA tuner automatically made the switch for WPTD without a need to rescan.

Although my PBS stations were listed as channel 70, I was getting very good signals on all PBS stations.
The only thing that bothered me was that I was not getting any PBS program information in the EPG.
All the time slots for each PBS station displayed "No Information."

I then remembered that channel 70 is not a valid number for TV broadcaster’s.
I Googled and found that UHF Channels 70-83 were already reallocated to cell phone use in the 1980s.
To confirm this my converter’s "Add A Channel Menu" will not go past channel 69.

I then hooked up an Access HD 1080 converter box, and of course it would not receive any PBS stations until I had it do a rescan.
It then picked up all the PBS stations with the proper channel 16 numbers.

Next I reconnected my TR-40CRA converter and went into the "Channel List" and selected all the PBS channel 70s and hit the delete button.
Then I did a rescan but it brought up the PBS stations as channel 70 again.
So I went back into the "Channel List" and deleted all channels so it could do a completely fresh rescan.

I got excellent results this time.
It brought back all my channels, and the PBS stations are now channel 16.
Immediately the EPG displayed program information in the time slots for the PBS stations.

I beleive the power outage was on Sunday .....
[/quote]

Yep, thanks for the correction, I mixed the days up ....

I guess we have given up on the quote tags. ;)

I guess we have given up on the quote tags. ;) Are they working properly ?

I guess we have given up on the quote tags. ;)

Funny thing is, I didn't actually do that on purpose, but once I saw my error I decided I'd leave it like that this time ;)

The guys at WPTD would like to know if anyone have signal strength numbers before and after the channel change ? Just post the numbers and someone will check the site.

The guys at WPTD would like to know if anyone have signal strength numbers before and after the channel change ? Just post the numbers and someone will check the site.

WPTD
Before the change signal strength = 70
After the change signal strength = 86

Notes
The numbers are the same for each of the five WPTD channels I receive.
I have a Dish Network TR-40CRA Converter Box.
A signal strength of 70 caused occasional pixelating and breakup of audio.
A signal strength of 86 provides a steady video & audio signal.
I prefer to be in the 90 range.
Nonetheless, I congratulate the WPTD team for what they have accomplished.
Good job guys !!

Short Version : WPTD signal VERY strong here, which is typical for the Cincinnati/Dayton stations ....

Long version :

In Free Space (w/o the receive antenna gain) -- WPTD-DT signal strength on 16 or 58 roughly seems to be between about -35dBm~ -40dBm or so .....

Location info : Down in a small valley between Middletown+Germantown with lots of nearby trees --- approx 13 Miles SW of WPTD tower, receive antenna height 37FT AGL/838FT ASL ---

Note: For this rough estimate I took into account receive antenna gain/feedline losses/System NF --- adding additional attenuation to feedline to see how much attenuation it takes to get "down" to just at threshold DTV reception(15dB SNR/which should be about -86dBm or so) ---- In other words, given Receive antenna gain of roughly 15dB (XG91) there has to be a bit more than about 60dB attenuation(more or less +_ including feedline/balun losses/etc and the "extra" attenuators I have to add to perform this test) between antenna+receiver before I lose a lock/capablity to decode .... this of course also assumes there is no multipath uncorrectable by receiver or other "noise" ....

Also, BTW, just discovered I could in fact decode (with about 3dB headroom) WPTD-DT on 16 with about a 3' piece of coax for antenna, using a Zenith HDV420 receiver on 2nd Floor, with in fact a Chimney sitting in WPTD's direction about 4 feet away from Receiver .....

Anyway, TVfool's predictions of around -31dBm for WPTD-DT signal strength in "free space" for my location+receive antenna height() on either 58 or 16 seem fairly accurate here per my limited ability to measure it (My best figuring for WPTD-DT on 16 and a measurement I did tonight was -37dBm signal strength in free space) ..... Actually, it seems quite accurate given the attenuation by trees(estimate 5~10dB or so) which TVfool doesn't take into account ...

As for "signal quality", It varies by receiver here, and due to differences in Receivers/etc, I'm not sure I can provide anything useful here, but here are what a few of them say :

sony HDTV - Ch 16 : (Oops! update : corrected from "98" to "92" on 5/17 for ch 16) -- "92" (out of 100), SNR 28, Ch 58 -- "98", SNR 31 (Note: AGC reading at 17% for either 16 or 58 -- lower AGC reading on this set = less gain applied from internal amplifier/stronger signal) .....

Zenith DTT900 - Ch 16 or 58 - Meter between the "G" ond the "O" in Good, fluctating between "almost" Steady audio tone, and Completely steady audio tone for the signal meter ...

Hauppauge WinTV- HVR-1600 - for either 16 or 58 - TSreaderLite 2.8.46e using ATSC BDA source module - "100%" -- Hauppauge signal meter = 26.5dB SNR with older drivers for the card, note newer drivers for the card show about 2~3dB higher in any case I've seen, but I don't use those drivers as I've had some problems with them ....

DTV Pal DVR (once known as TR50) -- for 16(current with F207 firmware) = 93 , for 58 (F202 firmware) = "96" .....

Anybody else with TW have sound issues with TW for the NCIS season finale on Tuesday night? The music track was there, but the dialogue was barely there. It happened on both my HD DVRs so it might be isolated to my house, but not just one system.

having trouble with think tv 16 again. i got 0 signal here in preble county. they won't even tell me what is going on.

having trouble with think tv 16 again. i got 0 signal here in preble county. they won't even tell me what is going on. I hope you don't take any offense to this, but looking at your other posts here and in the Cincy thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=13096603), you lose reception from quite a few stations and generally, no one else does at the same time. I suspect there's nothing that the folks at WPTD can do to help you.... Maybe offer to pay one of them to come out as a "side job" and they could probably solve all of your reception problems or at least look for reasons at your home.

Anybody else with TW have sound issues with TW for the NCIS season finale on Tuesday night? The music track was there, but the dialogue was barely there. It happened on both my HD DVRs so it might be isolated to my house, but not just one system.
I also had audio problems with NCIS Tuesday night on 7.1. The center dialog channel was dead for about the first 20 minutes of the show. It was that way both on my over air antenna and my sattelite feed. I switched to analog 7 over the air until the problem was fixed on digital 7.1. The audio was ok there. We won't have that option after June12. Do not know if it was a network problem or local station problem since I cannot receive Cincinnati locals with my current antenna setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiogal View Post
having trouble with think tv 16 again. i got 0 signal here in preble county. they won't even tell me what is going on.Quote

I hope you don't take any offense to this, but looking at your other posts here and in the Cincy thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=13096603), you lose reception from quite a few stations and generally, no one else does at the same time. I suspect there's nothing that the folks at WPTD can do to help you.... Maybe offer to pay one of them to come out as a "side job" and they could probably solve all of your reception problems or at least look for reasons at your home.

WPTD was off the air for gin pole placement on the tower on 5/20 between 10 am to 6 pm. Was off the air a number of times today between 10 am and 5 pm. for old antenna removed. It was a odd sight to see a 7000lbs. antenna coming off the tower.. New antenna up tomorrow and with good luck it maybe power up tomorrow night. If you called WPTD last few days you may not have talked to a engineer. The engineers was working on the transmitter.
They was off the air today 5/20 for

I also had audio problems with NCIS Tuesday night on 7.1. The center dialog channel was dead for about the first 20 minutes of the show. It was that way both on my over air antenna and my sattelite feed. I switched to analog 7 over the air until the problem was fixed on digital 7.1. The audio was ok there. We won't have that option after June12. Do not know if it was a network problem or local station problem since I cannot receive Cincinnati locals with my current antenna setup.

It's a network problem that WKRC is immune to since they only broadcast in DD2.0 (yay?). If I understand correctly CBS is sending an incompatible DD5.1 switching command in their stream, so the center channel data is lost until the mix is manually switched.

hopefuly they will have it up tonight. and channel 7 is driving me crazy lowering their signal too. goes from 72 percent to 47 percent. with constant breakups.

hopefuly they will have it up tonight. and channel 7 is driving me crazy lowering their signal too. goes from 72 percent to 47 percent. with constant breakups.

Sounds like multipath issues.

Sounds like you also need a decent outdoor antenna aimed at the towers.

we have an outdoor attenna but we would have to get premission from the church to replace it, we dont own our own home.

The homemade Bowtie setup is UHF antenna. For VHF channel 8 reception, You'd likely be better off with something like this homemade VHF antenna cut for channel 8 :

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

Cut it for channel 8 - 180~186MHZ, might want to cut it for 180MHZ first, not sure if it would work any better cut for 180MHZ or say middle of channel, about 183MHZ. Also, instead of using twinlead to TV for transmission line, I might try the twinlead as transmission line first, but you might want to use a balun at or near the "T". Twinlead is lower loss than Coax, but it's notorius for picking up interference (add a full twist every 12" in the Twinlead as transmission line however, and it will help with that significantly) .....

If that(which is a better antenna than the "rabbit ears" on most indoor antennas) doesn't do the trick, then the next step up I can thing of is you might want to look into something like this(price looks pretty good too) :

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

Well the dipole worked until the leaves started coming in - or so it seems. Gradually became unwatchable. Curiously I never have any difficulty getting WTLW (44.1 / 44.2), but WLIO (8.1 / 8.2) started pixelating and the audio was stuttering / fluttering and dropping out altogether. So now I have one of these (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CS600)in the attic - very inexpensive and reception is good again. It is so big though - I can only get it about 3" off the floor, and only a few degrees from due north, as I have it in more of a "crawl space" between dormers on the 2nd floor.

Would old foil-backed insulation have any effect on an antenna like this? There's some between the roof joists in close proximity to the smaller end of this antenna.

See were Think TV 16 has a notice about reception today about the antenna work going on this morning and noticed my signal bounced 0-40 last night and was cutting out bad assuming they are still working on it today.

My next question does WRGT 45 share the same tower? I am getting a low signal from that station as well.

Using a outdoor directional antenna from east side of Springfield. All other stations have a good signal.

Also does WKOI TBN plan to upgrade the low power analog translator Ch. 20 on WEEC tower at Springfield soon?

Don't expect to see any of the TBN translators get upgraded any time soon.

- Trip

i just wish they would just finish upgrading channel 16, there are alot of good shows on tonght i would like to watch.

and channel 7 is driving me crazy lowering their signal too. goes from 72 percent to 47 percent. with constant breakups. Hehe, yeap, they've got a guy sitting at a panel with a dial who adjusts the power to see if anyone notices !! You must be getting a signal from their "west" antenna and I get it from their "east" antenna 'cause mine hasn't changed (that I know of).

Would old foil-backed insulation have any effect on an antenna like this? There's some between the roof joists in close proximity to the smaller end of this antenna.
Absolutely - foil-backed insulation can have an effect on any antenna reception. All depends where it is with relation to the antenna though... if it's just off to the side of the direction in which the antenna aims, it might actually help deflect multipath signals or signals from other places that you don't want.

FYI, Some new Dayton info from FCC database :

WBDT-DT 26

Construction permit for WBDT’s post-transition 770kW ERP (DA) maximization app (File # BMPCDT 20080619AKF) was Granted by FCC 5/21/09 ….

--------------------------------------

WRCX-LP 40
(Dayton's ION affiliate for those that don’t know …) has Been GRANTED a digital flash cut on 40 -- It’s for 320 WATTS with the current DA (1814FT ASL , coordinates seem to indicate its on same stick as WRGT analog+DT, WBDT analog+DT, WKEF-DT)… Hmm, It should definitely protect 1st adjacent channels WHIO-DT 41 and WKOI-DT 39 from Interference, but, if/when they use it, it’s going to be interesting to see how WRCX digital reception works out for folks … As, for instance, On the main lobe, If I’m doing my calculation correctly 320 Watts ERP is at least 35 dB or so less than 1st Adjacent channel WHIO-DT 41 at 1000KW ERP …. The biggest null has a relative field value of .210, which = about 14 Watts ERP, which would be about 47dB or so less than WHIO next door at 1MW ERP …. Looks like there are several exhibits attached to the app which are going to be interesting to look through when I get a chance (here’s link to the app they sent on it(PDF I think ...) :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293305&formid=346&fac_num=69535

Update: here's a direct link (currently works is PDF) to the Contour Map exhibit they sent FCC for it) :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=755933&formid=346&q_num=5100

WKEF-DT 51

WKEF recently filed an app for a power increase to 570KW ERP (about 6dB more than the current 138KW ERP) ...

WHIO-DT 41

WHIO some time ago filed an app for 350KW Non-DA for top-mounted, antenna for post transition operation. They also have a 1000KW ERP maximization app on file, Non-DA for top mounted antenna (current licensed facility is 1000 KW ERP, DA with side-mount antenna, with significant nulls to W/SW/etc ) ….. According to info submitted with the app, The 350KW ERP app has to to with not needing Canadian Coordination/approval (apparently not the case for the 1000KW ERP app) ... No indication yet I can find on FCC site which indicates whether or not either of those apps have been/will be granted ...

ThinkTV16 Translators
ThinkTV16 Translator, W63AH, Maplewood, OH has filed an app for Digital operation on ch 32 …( Non DA, 15KW ERP) – Note ThinkTVTranslator W17AA Celina already has a Digital Flash Cut CP for 17 (DA @ 5Kw ERP)…


------------------

Note : I dug through these pretty quickly, so it’s possible I may have missed something ....

Called WPTD 16 today and wanted to check and see if they were putting out there max power after the antenna install last week, since I can only get a 0-25 on the scale bouncing and no picture/ audio since last Thursday and missed some good programs.

I was told they are awating for more tweaking to the transmitter by the subcontractor before going full bore which may be the end of this week or the end of next week. Right now only putting out 1/2 of the normal power.:(

The DT translators switch at Celina & Maplewood will not take place until the end of this year or the first part of 2010.:D

All Dayton stations at my location was giving lower signals today and hopefully after June 12 can see a improvement.

Haven't been paying attention for a while. What stations have already gone all-digital and what stations will before the deadline 2 weeks from now?

Well the dipole worked until the leaves started coming in - or so it seems. Gradually became unwatchable. Curiously I never have any difficulty getting WTLW (44.1 / 44.2), but WLIO (8.1 / 8.2) started pixelating and the audio was stuttering / fluttering and dropping out altogether. So now I have one of these (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CS600)in the attic - very inexpensive and reception is good again. It is so big though - I can only get it about 3" off the floor, and only a few degrees from due north, as I have it in more of a "crawl space" between dormers on the 2nd floor


I made my own antenna that works very well. http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pUI5AEYeWVu9r4vLsomPhyG-s3H72Hgt5ku14p3ENvSnAU54gqq7AJnscMo99TiBJ96Ix2hi9ZtU (http://hthut.spaces.live.com/)
The antenna below is inside and works as good as the one I have outside.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pyDTXCw47wylPZQyncnH8rS5mNa-Ypb2czmmZKDH7ylVjmdmgpmdCsAnWk7tvbwH4Gut9MarMhaA (http://hthut.spaces.live.com/)
Here is the AVS link and my own HDTV info page w/ more links.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798265

http://HTHUT.spaces.live.com


hyghwayman

Haven't been paying attention for a while. What stations have already gone all-digital and what stations will before the deadline 2 weeks from now?

WPTD and WKOI have converted. WDTN, WHIO, WKEF, WRGT, and WBDT are still broadcasting their analog signals.

Here's the full list (http://www.dtv.gov/stationlist.htm) from dtv.gov (http://www.dtv.gov/).

WPTD transmitter is at full power.

FYI my location is East Springfield and Sunday & Monday WRGT, WKEF & WPTD signals were poor as assume account band conditions and even TV2 was bouncing with multi path issues.

As for WRGT seems to be the weakest here as WKEF & WPTD are slightly better. Maybe Saturday after the switch, signals will be better.

I assume WPTD is putting full power after the transmitter tune up, if so signal is weaker than before the antenna replacement.

FYI, WHIO-DT's Maximization for 1000KW ERP Non-DA, and Top mounted Antenna was Granted by FCC on 6/9/2009 .....

FCC just posted a revised list of stations of analog nightlight stations --

Following stations in Cincy/Columbus/Dayton are on it :

5 - WLWT - Cincinnati (until 7/12/09)

6 - WSYX - Columbus (until 6/26/09)

22 - WKEF - Dayton (Until 6/26/09)

----------

Here's the public notice :

http://www.fcc.gov/DA-09-1303A1.pdf

Here's the appendix (the actual list) :

http://www.fcc.gov/DA-09-1303A2.pdf

I saw on Twitter today that WDTN cut off analog at 11:59am.

Anyone else have status updates on the area's stations and/or how the reaction has been around the area?

I'm intrigued to see how digital signals improve once this is all complete (especially up in our neck of the woods..springfield).

Aren't they 12 hours early ?

Aren't they 12 hours early ?No, that is when they were supposed to go...

Analog broadcasts were scheduled to be ended at noon, not midnight.

I have TWC basic service. I have an HDTV that has a QAM tuner and I am able to get NBC 2-1, 2-2, CBS 7-1, 7-2, ABC 22-1, FOX 45-1, 45-2. I am not able to get any of the CW digital channels. Was just wondering if anyone knew the reason why?

Analog broadcasts were scheduled to be ended at noon, not midnight.
That's not true. Analog broadcasts end today at a time scheduled by the station. Some are ending as early as midnight this morning and others are waiting until 11:59 tonight, with still others scattered throughout the day.

I am not able to get any of the CW digital channels. Was just wondering if anyone knew the reason why?

I also lost the channels.
CW (WBDT) changed from digital 18 to digital 26 today.
So I did a rescan and got them back.

I rescanned, with Time Warner in South Dayton, and as always, I do not get 26 (CW) anywhere in the digital spectrum. I can't figure this out. I get the digital channels for 2,7,14,16,22,45,and 48.

Anyone else?

I rescanned, with Time Warner in South Dayton, and as always, I do not get 26 (CW) anywhere in the digital spectrum. I can't figure this out. I get the digital channels for 2,7,14,16,22,45,and 48.

Anyone else?

I'm using A Dish Network TR-40CRA converter box.
So I'm getting my channels over the air.

I first had to delete the old CW (WBDT) channels.
Then I did a rescan and got the new channels.
So be sure you don't have any old CW (WBDT) info.

Another method that worked for me once was to do a fresh rescan of all my channels.

Besides changing channels CW (WBDT) also increased their power today.

There's a lot of talk currently going on about CW (WBDT) in the "Cincinnati, OH - HDTV" thread.
See pages 378-380.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=306883&page=378

FYI, WHIO-DT's Maximization for 1000KW ERP Non-DA, and Top mounted Antenna was Granted by FCC on 6/9/2009 .....

I hope that fixes my problems with them. For the 5 years I have been in Huber Heights, WHIO has always has issues with every tuner I have. It will lock on solid for a while and then when conditions change, it will not lock at all or pixelate. Rotate the antenna a few degrees and all is well for another 15 minutes. It happens with an unamplied UHF antenna, rabbit ears and my highly amplified tower antenna. No other Dayton station has ever done this to me.

During football season, I was forced to watch WKRC-DT for Bengals games, since it was much more stable than WHIO-DT for me.

I rescanned, with Time Warner in South Dayton, and as always, I do not get 26 (CW) anywhere in the digital spectrum. I can't figure this out. I get the digital channels for 2,7,14,16,22,45,and 48.

Anyone else?

I have Time Warner coming from Troy. I get all those digital channels as well. I have never been able to get the CW 26 (wbdt) digital channel. Since I subscribe to TW I get these channels through their service and not over the air. Just baffles me why I can get all the other digital channels and not that one. Wonder why TW is not carrying them.

Did Channel 16 change HD from 16.6 to 16.1?

Anyone with DTv (HR20-xxx) know how to get channel 16.1?

I did a rescan but it was unable to pick up Channel 16.1 which I assume is a guide data issue. Any other DTv users having the same issue?

John

Did Channel 16 change HD from 16.6 to 16.1?

Jon -
DirecTV doesn't scan like a normal ATSC tuner or converter box - they use the guide data only. Both our HR21-xxx currently show 16 as -2 thru -6 (although 16-2 currently is "off", all others display normally). Rescanning with our Panasonic shows channel 16 now as 1-5. I assume that at some point, DirecTV will correct it's guide data - until then the old line up applies.

Carl

Did Channel 16 change HD from 16.6 to 16.1?

yes it did. Also for me channel 14.6 changed from that to 0.0

yes it did.

Who must I contact to have the DTv guide updated to 16.1 vs. 16.6?

Thanks,
John

I have rescanned my Directv HD receiver yesterday and today trying to resolve the channel 16.1-16.6 problem. Mine currently shows all channels from 16.1-16.6 with no guide info for 16.1 and 16.6 is dead. The guide info shows for 16.2 -16.6 and I have to transpose the info: the program in the 16.6 guide info is actually showing up on 16.1, 16.3 on 16.2, 16.4 on 16.3, etc. Give Directv a few days to get the correct sub-channel info from ThinkTV updated in their system. With all the changes occurring Friday, they may have several problems like this in other markets too. What I don't understand is why ThinkTV16 and 14 didn't do this sub-channel remapping back on May 1 when they shut down their analogs and flashed back to channel 16 from 58 on digital.

you probably will have to contact direct tv as they preprogram their guide. I am sure eventually they will change it.

When WPTD made their switch a few weeks ago, re-scanning didn't work for me. Channel 16-1 had a "zero" signal while 16-2 had 90+. 16.3 was nothing, 16.4 was 90+. Made no sense.... Re-scanned with no luck. I had to DELETE the channels and re-scan again and that worked. This is with a Dish Network 722k receiver.

How is everyone doing pulling in the Cincinnati channels OTA? I tested for the first time last night post-transition and I was able to pick up 5, 9, 12, 19, 48, and 64. Before the changeover I could not get 9 or 19 while getting 5, 12, 48, and 64. I was pleasantly surprised to get everything.

How is everyone doing pulling in the Cincinnati channels OTA? I tested for the first time last night post-transition and I was able to pick up 5, 9, 12, 19, 48, and 64. Before the changeover I could not get 9 or 19 while getting 5, 12, 48, and 64. I was pleasantly surprised to get everything.

Everything is coming in better for me except Ch 12, since they moved from UHF to VHF. Their signal just isn't as strong in Huber Heights (just north of I-70) as the UHF signal was (800 kw at Ch 31 vs 15.5 Kw at Ch 12). I really can't get a stable signal during the day, only at night and I have a 35' tower with seperate VHF antenna, amp and downfeeds.

Ch 9 is great 24/7 now. I had issues with them prior to shutdown due to analog WBNS Ch 10 interference. I had to point about 30 degrees west of the towers to get Columbus to null out on my antenna. So now, with the analog gone, Ch 9 (on 10) is great. If I read the FCC docs correctly, Ch 9 is the same height as Ch 12, but about 3.5kw more power. It will be interesting to see how many people with indoor antennas north of Springboro can pick up Ch12.

I also get three of the four Columbus major stations 24/7, with only issues with WTTE, which I can only get reliably at night. WSYX Ch 6 (actually on 13) is licensed for 59kw and I get them at 58 miles with no issue 24/7 (easiest of the three to pick up) and have for several years now.

I have also pulled in all three Lima stations at night, stable, with only one being visible (poorly) during the day. I have also picked up WBGU, Ch 27 Bowling Green University, but I don't know if that was just good night reception or skip.

In my setup, i had a high gain UHF amp and the Dayton analog stations overloaded it. I saw herringbone and the windowshade effect on most of the analog stations. With only WKEF still up, the few UHF low power stations (20,32,38, 40) show no analog overmodulation issues from WKEF analog nightlite. I am not sure what the digital overmodulation should look like, but the four LP stations I can pick up all show a hint of noise in the background. Not sure that is just the weak signal or overmodulation from the digital transmitters. In any case, I can now, for the first time, point my antenna directly toward Dayton without losing all the digital stations due to amplifier issues.

Friday night/Saturday morning I was able to pick up WOTH, a low power digital in Cincy. It was very weak, but I watched it for about three hours with solid picture at that time. I haven't scanned for it since, so I don't know if it will be a nighttime regular.

So overall, I am happy with post-analog digital reception.

Please re-scan for WOTH DT - it's now back up and running better than ever.
Great selection of diverse programming such as WKRP-TV and RTV (Retro Television).
You won't be disappointed!

Between the English and Spanish DTV setup videos on 22, a station identification logo fills the screen for a few seconds. It says "WKEF (TV)/DT Dayton". I think that the parentheses around "TV" are a nice humorous touch. :)

How is everyone doing pulling in the Cincinnati channels OTA? I tested for the first time last night post-transition and I was able to pick up 5, 9, 12, 19, 48, and 64. Before the changeover I could not get 9 or 19 while getting 5, 12, 48, and 64. I was pleasantly surprised to get everything.


I have always gotten those Cincy channels and still do. However now I'm picking up info for 25.1(WOTH), 25.2(WKRP), 25.3(RTN) and 25.4(JTV) ? , but my signal meter is dead on those channels?

hyghwayman

well our only pbs station that we can get, channel 16 which was at 100 percent signal, is gone again. anybody know whats going on with their transmitter? this bothers me.

just talked to the people at think tv 16, transmitter down, don't know the problem, and don't know when they will be back up.

Anyone with DirecTV have any luck rescanning for ThinkTV 16 PBS yet? I'm still getting the old lineup of 16.2 - 16.6, no 16.1 showing. The guide data seems to be correct now for 16.2 - 16.5, however 16.6 gives a 771 error and no signal strength. I have contacted WPTD and been informed about the lineup changes - 16.6HD to 16.1HD - yet I haven't been able to get 16.1 to show up on my D* guide.

I have an HR20-700 and have done everything I (and others) have thought of to get this resolved.

Anyone with DirecTV have any luck rescanning for ThinkTV 16 PBS yet? I'm still getting the old lineup of 16.2 - 16.6, no 16.1 showing. The guide data seems to be correct now for 16.2 - 16.5, however 16.6 gives a 771 error and no signal strength. I have contacted WPTD and been informed about the lineup changes - 16.6HD to 16.1HD - yet I haven't been able to get 16.1 to show up on my D* guide.

I have an HR20-700 and have done everything I (and others) have thought of to get this resolved.

Have you tried contacting Dtv customer service as they are the ones that control that lineup? They probably aren't even aware the local channel changed from 16.6 to 16.1. You might have to call them and inform Direct TV so they can change their lineup so you can receive 16.1.

Dish Network has the same "problem" with PBS's 16.1 too. Dish gets their information from Tribune Media's guide service though there may be a problem with some "code" that WPTD includes in their PSIP data that Dish uses to re-map. This same thing happened a while back with another local station who had inadvertently changed some ID number that Dish was looking for.

You're talking about WRGT and a temporary issue with E* EPG which occured, when for a time, WRGT-DT was sending the (incorrect) TSID for analog WRGT ...

WPTD (digital) is still sending their correct TSID, and that would not be an issue ...

What changed is that they changed around the VCT minor channel #'s (now 16.1~5, Was 16.2~16.6), and also the program_numbers have been changed around, but the PID addresses have remained the same for all the streams ... It's a little unusual how they've done it, as for example you have for example, higher PID addresses for "lower" Program_numbers for 16.1 ... But, WDTN is like that as well to a certian extent, with 2.2(SD) getting the "lower" program Numbers(but lower PID addresses as well), and 2.1 (HD) getting higher program Number/PID addresses ....

I would venture to guess those changes are why some providers EPG info is currently broken for them, and that those providers need to update their EPG info regarding which streams/program Numbers/etc. correspond to which program service(program info/etc) per the way ThinkTV (WPTO too) is now doing it ...

--------------------------------------------

For WPTD's streams It's now(currently - they did have things a little different for a time last Friday possibly I caught them when they were changing things around ) like this :

For 16.1 : (Note: This "used" to be at 16.6 and Program # 7, everything else same as it was)

Program Number: 3
PCR on PID 113 (0x0071)
PMT Version: 6
Service name: 16HD

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video
Elementary Stream PID 113 (0x0071)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 116 (0x0074)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 119 (0x0077)

-----------------------------------------------

For 16.2 (Note : This "used" to be 16.3, everything else same as it was)

Program Number: 4
PCR on PID 65 (0x0041)
PMT Version: 6
Service name: 16Again

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video
Elementary Stream PID 65 (0x0041)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 68 (0x0044)

---------------------------------------------------------------

For 16.3 (Note: This One Used to be 16.4, everything else same as it was)

Program Number: 5
PCR on PID 81 (0x0051)
PMT Version: 6
Service name: 16Creat

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video
Elementary Stream PID 81 (0x0051)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 84 (0x0054)

-----------------------------------------------

For 16.4 (note: This one used to be 16.5, everything else same as it was)

Program Number: 6
PCR on PID 97 (0x0061)
PMT Version: 6
Service name: 16 Ohio

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video
Elementary Stream PID 97 (0x0061)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 100 (0x0064)


---------------------------------------------

For 16.5 (Note: This one used to be 16.2 and Program Number 3, everything else same as it was)

Program Number: 7
PCR on PID 49 (0x0031)
PMT Version: 6
Service name: 16DT

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video
Elementary Stream PID 49 (0x0031)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 52 (0x0034)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 55 (0x0037)

--------------

Update:

Update: Oh, also, I don't know how the D*/E* HD receivers with OTA "work" in this regard -- but in a general sense, if this is an applicable for those --- Perhaps folks having issues with D*/E* EPG who haven't already tried the below might also want to try the "double-rescanning" method and see if that helps ...

#1). Reset receiver to original "factory" settings ... Or, unhook antenna, do a "complete" scan for OTA channels - You should have nothing ... This should get rid of any "old" and now incorrect info previously stored by receiver regarding the EPG and "channel #'s" /etc ...

#2). Hook antenna back up, then rescan .....

Anyone with DirecTV have any luck rescanning for ThinkTV 16 PBS yet? I'm still getting the old lineup of 16.2 - 16.6, no 16.1 showing. The guide data seems to be correct now for 16.2 - 16.5, however 16.6 gives a 771 error and no signal strength. I have contacted WPTD and been informed about the lineup changes - 16.6HD to 16.1HD - yet I haven't been able to get 16.1 to show up on my D* guide.

I have an HR20-700 and have done everything I (and others) have thought of to get this resolved.

No, I am in the same situation as you (also HR20-700). My TV has picked up 16.1, but I am seeing some errors in what they are transmitting. This morning, two of the sub-channels had 'Martha Speaks' in the datastream (the TV's TVGoS is turned off) and one channel was what looked like an opera, the other was Martha Speaks, yet both were labeled 'Martha Speaks'.

Good news/bad news regarding DirecTV HR20 series.
1.) Good news it can be fixed very easily.
2.) Bad news is that it requires a complete system (receiver) re-set back to original factory settings. After you input setup for both satellite and antenna,, re-scan and everything for WPTD will be "normal".
It takes about 10 minutes, so not really bad news.
That's what I did this past Wednesday since I had the same issues you are describing.
Enjoy!:)
J.

Good news/bad news regarding DirecTV HR20 series.
1.) Good news it can be fixed very easily.
2.) Bad news is that it requires a complete system (receiver) re-set back to original factory settings. After you input setup for both satellite and antenna,, re-scan and everything for WPTD will be "normal".
It takes about 10 minutes, so not really bad news.
That's what I did this past Wednesday since I had the same issues you are describing.
Enjoy!:)
J.Will I lose my recorded programs? :confused:

Never mind, I found out ... yes.

You're talking about WRGT and a temporary issue with E* EPG which occured, when for a time, WRGT-DT was sending the (incorrect) TSID for analog WRGT ... Did anything change with the data that WRGT is sending ? I've noticed the Dish's EPG isn't showing data for 45.1 and 45.2 either.

Anyone else with Dish seeing "Digital Service" for the OTA 45.1 and 45.2 channels also ?

If anyone has any e-mail contact information for WPTD and WRGT, even general e-mail addresses like "engineering@wrgt.com", could they PM that to me ? I'm sending Dish an e-mail about both station's guide info and would like to copy people from the stations.

Did anything change with the data that WRGT is sending ?

Yep ... They're currently (1:20AM EDT 6/23/09) sending incorrect TSID value of "0" in PAT and TVCT ... Just a wild guess, but The "0" value might possibly suggest data loss occuring/equipment issue(or replacement of equipment) at some point which they haven't yet rectified ....

Their TSID should be 2281 (and was last time I looked) .... Last time you had this issue, the TSID (Transport Stream ID) value they were sending was 2280 (The TSID value assigned for Analog WRGT) ...

--------------------

Update : 6/23/09 8:40pm EDT -- TSID value WRGT is sending is correct now (2281) ...

I've rescanned my DirecTV DVR and am now picking up WPTD 16.1 through 16.5 listed in my guide (as opposed to the old lineup of 16.2 through 16.6). :)This is the good news. The bad news is that I have no signal from them and get a 771 error. Tried resetting DVR and rescanning. No good. Anyone got any info on whether they are having tower problems, etc.?:confused:

channel 22, wkef has been off the air for quite sometime. I really am missing gma and its the only abc station that we can get at this time. this really is making my mom mad that she cannot watch gma.

I've rescanned my DirecTV DVR and am now picking up WPTD 16.1 through 16.5 listed in my guide (as opposed to the old lineup of 16.2 through 16.6). :)This is the good news. The bad news is that I have no signal from them and get a 771 error. Tried resetting DVR and rescanning. No good. Anyone got any info on whether they are having tower problems, etc.?:confused:

Re-scanned last night and now have 16.1 through 16.5 with no issues. Currently watching 16.1.

John

and now i find out that my parents bedroom converter box has channel 22. but the rest of our tvs don't. i just don't understand.

and now i find out that my parents bedroom converter box has channel 22. but the rest of our tvs don't. i just don't understand. Something is wrong with your cabling or converter box or the tuner(s) in your TV(s).

there sure wasn't anything wrong yesterday when i was watching good morning america. t his is still upsetting why i can get all the dayton stations and not channel 22.

there sure wasn't anything wrong yesterday when i was watching good morning america. t his is still upsetting why i can get all the dayton stations and not channel 22.

You seem to have more problems with channels around here than anybody. What kind of antenna do you have?

i tried taking off the satillite cord, wkef came in at a very week signal. when i put the satillite back in no signal. all the other dayton stations come in great. we have a tall outside attenna with a router. i just don't know what to do, turn it back to the south and regain cinci abc and lose the dayton stations ( i live in preble county) or just think that they are working on their transmitter and leave things alone. i have not gotten any answers back from channel 22.

When I was using OTA w/my E* receivers, I had signal strength issues on some televisions and not on others, I installed a powered amplifier and it helped somewhat, but not completely. I'm still not positive what the issue was, but I think it had to do with longer cable runs or running many cables tightly together.

You may want to try running a new RG6 line to the receiver/tv you are having an issue with and see if it helps any. Or try switching boxes at the location you are having issues with and a location where you have no issues.

If the issue follows the box, you have found the culprit, if it stays at the same location it's probably cabling.

channel 22, wkef has been off the air for quite sometime. I really am missing gma and its the only abc station that we can get at this time. this really is making my mom mad that she cannot watch gma.

Channel 22-1 OTA was down for me this morning about 7AM, but channel 22 from DirecTV was working. I chalked it up to either weather interference or WKEF digital station took a lightning hit last night. It appears to be back up now. I assume DirecTV has a fiber line to their uplink facility from WKEF.

22 analog is supposed to go down today. I assume midnight, the multilingual how to use a converter box video is still repeating at this time.

Well, WKEF analog 22 just went down. Played the same video that Ch 45 did. The split screen with a T38 flying in the upper half and mountains in the lower with a flag in the middle and the national anthem playing.

Re-scanned last night and now have 16.1 through 16.5 with no issues. Currently watching 16.1.

JohnI am now getting all channels very strong as well. Guess the party responsible finally did what they were supposed to do several days ago. About time, but I'm happy. :)

well i have decided not to watch my locals on the ota on dish receiver. so i plugged in my attenna to my tv, left the hdmi connected to i can watch dish network, and get this there are columbus stations in the upper 80s to low 90s how cool is that. man i wish the dayton area would get RTN, some of the best classic shows around.

well i have decided not to watch my locals on the ota on dish receiver. so i plugged in my attenna to my tv, left the hdmi connected to i can watch dish network, and get this there are columbus stations in the upper 80s to low 90s how cool is that. man i wish the dayton area would get RTN, some of the best classic shows around.
So your problem lies somewhere in your Dish hardware and now everything is working fine?

:confused: Does anyone know if WHIO has completed moving their permanent digital antenna to the top of their tower and fired up to full power? :confused: I've been eagerly awaiting this, hoping that reception improves in the Hamilton OH area, but have seen no change in their signal strength here.

Haven't seen a word on their website, in the Dayton Daily News or here on the AVS Forum...

[QUOTE=emery_r;16738340]:confused: Does anyone know if WHIO has completed moving their permanent digital antenna to the top of their tower and fired up to full power? :confused: I've been eagerly awaiting this, hoping that reception improves in the Hamilton OH area, but have seen no change in their signal strength here.

No work has been done.

[QUOTE=emery_r;16738340]:confused: Does anyone know if WHIO has completed moving their permanent digital antenna to the top of their tower and fired up to full power? :confused: I've been eagerly awaiting this, hoping that reception improves in the Hamilton OH area, but have seen no change in their signal strength here.

No work has been done.

Literally NO work done yet? Wow, kind of amazing. Has there been any announcement by the station that you know of?

As Archie Bunker once said, "I took the bull by the corns", and just contacted WHIO directly via e-mail.

Their chief engineer, Chuck Eastman, quickly replied and said weather had delayed the work crews. He said relocation of their permanent digital antenna should begin this week on Wednesday -- so it looks like we'll see a boost in their signal strength in early July! :D

Gee, they only had 2 years to get this done. And they waited for now?

Gee, they only had 2 years to get this done. And they waited for now?

Couldn't move it to the top of the tower until the analog antenna was turned off.

Okay, change that to 3 months ago, then. :) Ya know, when they were first able to start turning off the analog towers.

Okay, change that to 3 months ago, then. :) Ya know, when they were first able to start turning off the analog towers. The gov't told them they couldn't. Remember ?

Job well done - WHIO!

I've been getting WHIO-DT 7 (channel 41) at 100% signal strength here in Sharonville with an attic-mount antenna. It's more powerful than some of the Cincinnati stations.

Note: My "rabbit ears" in the bedroom is now showing WHIO-DT 7 at 85% signal strength (it used to be 70%) before the work on the tower/transmitter was completed this week.

I guess when you "top-mount" the digital antenna and increase your power the difference is significant.

Bottom line here in northeastern Hamilton County:

=WHIO-DT 7 @ 100% signal strength
=WKRC-DT 12 @ 80% signal strength

I firmly believe that the stations who moved from UHF to VHF digital made a mistake....unless they had no choice in the matter. Thoughts?


J.

Job well done - WHIO!

I've been getting WHIO-DT 7 (channel 41) at 100% signal strength here in Sharonville with an attic-mount antenna. It's more powerful than some of the Cincinnati stations.

I guess when you "top-mount" the digital antenna and increase your power the difference is significant.

I firmly believe that the stations who moved from UHF to VHF digital made a mistake....unless they had no choice in the matter. Thoughts?


J.

I thought WHIO was transmitting at 1000KW, but their digital antenna was intentionally not sending much of that power south and west. The antenna is higher, but also omnidirectional, so you should see a significant effective increase in radiated power.

For me, WHIO is about the same as before, but I am north of I-70 where they have always sent a very stong signal.

WKRC has become slightly better since June 12, to the point I get it slightly better than WCPO now. It still is a fairly weak signal, but I am frequently picking it up on the side when pointing my antenna towards Columbus, whereas on June 12th, I had to point directly within 10 degrees of the towers to receive them.

Okay, change that to 3 months ago, then. :) Ya know, when they were first able to start turning off the analog towers.

As Hall stated, they couldn't turn it off. They tried but the FCC made them keep it up until June 12th. It is as simple as that... this had nothing to do with WHIO.

WHIO-TV tower work did not start this week due to tower crew did not shown up. Also WHIO-TV has had transmitter problem. (transmitter tube)

WHIO-TV tower work did not start this week due to tower crew did not shown up. Also WHIO-TV has had transmitter problem. (transmitter tube)

Just received a Twitter response to a question I'd sent to WHIO -- and here's the straight scoop, copied from Twitter:

"RE: WHIO DTV Transmitter: Work delayed on our permanent install due to weather elsewhere holding up crews. Work begins here Mon!"

So I guess improved reception in northern Cincinnati was just a fortunate fluke. And I'm glad, because I want improved reception too -- maybe next week!!!

EDIT: Just received a brief e-mail reply Friday night from WHIO's Chief Engineer Chuck Eastman -- he confirmed tower work to move the digital antenna will begin Monday, and also that they are now at "full power". I assume this increase to "full power" explains ncincy1's report of a stronger signal in northern Cincinnati. The tower move needs to boost the signal for me, I guess!

[QUOTE=So I guess improved reception in northern Cincinnati was just a fortunate fluke. And I'm glad, because I want improved reception too -- maybe next week!!!![/QUOTE]

I would not look for improvement for at least two to three weeks. Alot of work has to be done. look at how long it has been with WCPO-TV.

I would not look for improvement for at least two to three weeks. Alot of work has to be done. look at how long it has been with WCPO-TV.

No problem waiting a couple weeks for me -- as long as it definitely happens, and I receive them OTA once again. Can always get WHIO on TW Cable here too, but definitely want it on our upstairs TVs equipped with trusty converter boxes!

Just saw a distant ANALOG television signal on Channel 3 -- a Spanish language broadcast called "Mediodia", which translates literally into "Noon" in English. It looks like a newscast, or magazine type show. Anyone have any idea where this signal comes from? Since it appeared on my TV at noon Eastern time, I assume it's being broadcast from somewhere in the Eastern time zone.

Anyone else seeing this signal? Any idea where it's from? The picture faded in and out a lot, and only occasionally popped into full color. I can't get a fix on anything that identifies the city of origin.

Thanks!

(I also posted this question on the Cincinnati thread...if I get a response there, I'll copy it back here!)

EDIT: The distant analog Ch. 3 signal was probably from Cuba! I posted a question about what I'd seen today on a similar message board devoted to DXing, the reception of distant TV and FM signals. A response quickly appeared that identified the likely station as "Ch 3's Cubavision...likely located in Santa Clara in central Cuba." The guy who identified it said they have a program called ""Mediodia en TV", so that's about as close to an iron-clad match as I could hope for!

What a skip -- an analog TV signal from Cuba, right here in southwest Ohio.

Anyone from WPTD monitor this thread ? If so, please contact Dish Network and tell them you've made changes to your sub-channel lineup and to update their data.

The contact info for Engineering on ThinkTV website has worked for me in the past :

http://www.thinktv.org/about/abou_contact.html

I was hoping however they'd at least have dropped the redundant SD simulcast on 16.5 (or 14.5 for WPTO) by now ... Their use of telecine (TFF/RFF) flags (repeat field detection on Harmonic encoders)on all their programming services(480i or 1080i) works very nicely during 23.976fps programming(as it does for WBDT and WLWT Cincy), but the 1080i HD service especially still needs more bandwidth ... a LOT more bandwidth, actually, and there certianly isn't room for ATSC M/H (mobile DTV) streams with what they're doing currently, even if they drop one or two subchannels ....

Just saw a distant ANALOG television signal on Channel 3 -- a Spanish language broadcast called "Mediodia", which translates literally into "Noon" in English. It looks like a newscast, or magazine type show. Anyone have any idea where this signal comes from? Since it appeared on my TV at noon Eastern time, I assume it's being broadcast from somewhere in the Eastern time zone.

Anyone else seeing this signal? Any idea where it's from? The picture faded in and out a lot, and only occasionally popped into full color. I can't get a fix on anything that identifies the city of origin.

Thanks!

(I also posted this question on the Cincinnati thread...if I get a response there, I'll copy it back here!)

EDIT: The distant analog Ch. 3 signal was probably from Cuba! I posted a question about what I'd seen today on a similar message board devoted to DXing, the reception of distant TV and FM signals. A response quickly appeared that identified the likely station as "Ch 3's Cubavision...likely located in Santa Clara in central Cuba." The guy who identified it said they have a program called ""Mediodia en TV", so that's about as close to an iron-clad match as I could hope for!

What a skip -- an analog TV signal from Cuba, right here in southwest Ohio.
your skip signal is caused by e-skip a normal phenom this time of year !!! enjoy!!!

Sometimes I'm watching Channel 7 and pixelation ( I think that's the correct word) starts and I lose sound and the picture. This is on a Vizio HDTV. I can get all the
Dayton stations but none of the Cincy/Lima ones. Then I use a convertor box (Alpha Digital) and an old Toshiba and I can pull all of the Dayton/Cincy/Lima stations. So I'm guessing the convertor built in the Vizio is not as good as the Alpha Digital.

I have a TV tower about 45-50' above ground with an old UHF/VHF antenna with a power amp. I put a tripod on the roof with a Yagi antenna. Gonna swing the old antenna toward Columbus which is 2Edge from my house/about and the Yagi toward Dayton/Cincy. I know the Yagi won't have any problems with Dayton being about 38 miles LOS (line of sight). Hoping the Yagi will pick up the Cincy stations still. Anyone have experience with dual antenna setups and Yagi's?

Also can someone point me in the direction of a MythTV forum? I built a HTPC but can't seem to get it to work correctly. I loved my ReplayTV. Wished it'd keep working.

With a hat tip to Chuck Eastman, WHIO's chief engineer, I'm told that their tower work did begin last Saturday (July 11), and he hoped it would end "soon" -- no prediction on that ending date, though.

Incidentally, here's the current word on Cincinnati's WCPO/9 (RF 10). The story has evolved a bit all day long, but at last report, they've completed the move of their permanent digital antenna atop their tower, and preliminary tests were successful -- so they're planning on firing up to full power, at full tower height, at 12:05 AM tonight, right after ABC's "Nightline" is over.

Viewers in the Dayton area should take a look to see if WCPO's signal coverage improves afterwards!

With a hat tip to Chuck Eastman, WHIO's chief engineer, I'm told that their tower work did begin last Saturday (July 11), and he hoped it would end "soon" -- no prediction on that ending date, though.

Incidentally, here's the current word on Cincinnati's WCPO/9 (RF 10). The story has evolved a bit all day long, but at last report, they've completed the move of their permanent digital antenna atop their tower, and preliminary tests were successful -- so they're planning on firing up to full power, at full tower height, at 12:05 AM tonight, right after ABC's "Nightline" is over.

Viewers in the Dayton area should take a look to see if WCPO's signal coverage improves afterwards!

Will do.

Antenna was pointed about 153 degrees at my UHF sweet spot. Was monitoring WCPO 9-1 on my Pioneer TV and DirecTV DVR. at 11:45PM WCPO came in about 69 percent on the TV and 87 percent on the DVR, Just before midnight, the TV dropped to 61, and DVR to 84 percent and stayed there. At 12:18 there was a glitch and WCPO was off air for a couple of seconds.

Afterwards, the TV stayed at 69. The DVR jumped up to a steady 91-92 with peaks of 94 percent, for a gain of 4 to 5 percent here just north of I-70 in Dayton.

For fun, I moved the antenna around and had a usable signal for a wider range than I remember. I can almost point east at Columbus and get a solid lock. Swinging back west, at 208 degrees, I get a peak of 80 percent on the TV, which continues until 245 degrees before dropping off. The DVR peaks at 99 percent at 204 degrees, but rapidly drops off to either side.

For comparison, the TV shows a peak of 57 percent (TV) and 85 percent on the DVR at 208 degrees for WKRC.

Of course, this is at nighttime, I'll recheck tomorrow during the day to see if there is any change.

Antenna was pointed about 153 degrees at my UHF sweet spot. Was monitoring WCPO 9-1 on my Pioneer TV and DirecTV DVR. at 11:45PM WCPO came in about 69 percent on the TV and 87 percent on the DVR, Just before midnight, the TV dropped to 61, and DVR to 84 percent and stayed there. At 12:18 there was a glitch and WCPO was off air for a couple of seconds.

Afterwards, the TV stayed at 69. The DVR jumped up to a steady 91-92 with peaks of 94 percent, for a gain of 4 to 5 percent here just north of I-70 in Dayton.

For fun, I moved the antenna around and had a usable signal for a wider range than I remember. I can almost point east at Columbus and get a solid lock. Swinging back west, at 208 degrees, I get a peak of 80 percent on the TV, which continues until 245 degrees before dropping off. The DVR peaks at 99 percent at 204 degrees, but rapidly drops off to either side.

For comparison, the TV shows a peak of 57 percent (TV) and 85 percent on the DVR at 208 degrees for WKRC.

Of course, this is at nighttime, I'll recheck tomorrow during the day to see if there is any change.

I've checked on two different set-ups at my house (both outfitted with rabbit ears and converter boxes), and both are far better this morning. One actually now picks up WCPO *without* having its rabbit ears extended; previously the station was spotty even fully extended and oriented for maximum strength.

Also, their morning news show just confirmed they had in fact boosted their power overnight, and predicted viewers would notice the difference.

I've checked on two different set-ups at my house (both outfitted with rabbit ears and converter boxes), and both are far better this morning. One actually now picks up WCPO *without* having its rabbit ears extended; previously the station was spotty even fully extended and oriented for maximum strength.

Also, their morning news show just confirmed they had in fact boosted their power overnight, and predicted viewers would notice the difference.

I guess WCPO went from a circular tranmission pattern to a slightly non-circular pattern. According to the FCC polar plot, I am at 93.8 percent of 19KW vs 100 percent of 16.3KW. So that is 17.8KW ERP in my direction vs 16.3KW, for a 9.3 percent increase in signal towards my direction. That is consistent with what I saw last night.

Being 100' higher, that means I have more of a direct line of sight to their antenna, too.

As I reported in the Cincinnati thread, as of 7AM this morning, I am receiving WCPO on a fixed UHF non-amplified antenna at 25' up my tower pointed towards Cincinnati (for my bedroom TV). That is pretty incredible given that the antenna has shown no VHF capability in the past (I have been scanning frequently since June 12th).

Update at 4:40PM

Antenna is at 204 degrees and DVR says WCPO is down to about 75 percent. TV is down to 57 percent. I expect this to be the sun setting in the west interfering with the signal. And, as expected, I have no WCPO on my bedroom TV (I was surprised to get it in the first place this morning).

WKRC is not being received by my Living room TV and is is just barely above lock (low 30s) on the DVR. WKRC needs to do something to fix their reception or else NFL football in the early afternoons is going to not watchable. Because of issues I have had with WHIO pixelating during the fall, I have previously used WKRC for watching Bengals games. Looks like no more.

Hold on... Rotating the antenna east, to 166 now gives a slightly weaker WCPO and a low but acceptable WKRC. I guess this takes it more away from the sun (also is near my UHF best signal point).

WHIO ran a scrawl this morning stating to expect to lose signal several times today as they put up/turn on their new HD antenna.

WHIO ran a scrawl this morning stating to expect to lose signal several times today as they put up/turn on their new HD antenna.

I'll start looking for WHIO's boost later today -- can hardly wait! :)

I also had a period of greatly reduced WCPO power yesterday, first time that's happened since their recent tower changes. Couldn't figure it out, but it must have been the same issues described in other posts here. :(

I'll start looking for WHIO's boost later today -- can hardly wait! :)

I also had a period of greatly reduced WCPO power yesterday, first time that's happened since their recent tower changes. Couldn't figure it out, but it must have been the same issues described in other posts here. :(

I was driving by the channel 7 transmitter yesterday and the old antenna is still on top and trucks with the new transmission line and antenna was waiting to be unloaded. It will be last at least two weeks before the new antenna will be on. Hold on guys.

i was driving by the channel 7 transmitter yesterday and the old antenna is still on top and trucks with the new transmission line and antenna was waiting to be unloaded. It will be last at least two weeks before the new antenna will be on. Hold on guys.

*sigh*

I guess WCPO went from a circular tranmission pattern to a slightly non-circular pattern. According to the FCC polar plot, I am at 93.8 percent of 19KW vs 100 percent of 16.3KW. So that is 17.8KW ERP in my direction vs 16.3KW, for a 9.3 percent increase in signal towards my direction. That is consistent with what I saw last night.


correct formula to figure ERP from Relative field values for directional antenna patterns shown on FCC site is :

Radial ERP = (Maximum ERP) * (relative field)2

So, for the 20 degree bearing(relative field value of .938) from WCPO's tower it would be :

(.938 x .938 ) x 19,000(watts) = 16717 Watts ....


A difference not really worth mentioning in this case, (a tiny fraction of a dB -), but it's much more important to do it right if you want accurate values when lower relative field values are involved .... Also, make sure to check for pattern rotation before making calculations ... (WCPO's is shown as "0" degrees, so you can use the azimuth headings as listed for the relative field values) .....

TVfool plots do all this for you (correctly) of course, if you click on the callsigns in your plot, it will show the ERP squirted in your direction .....

FCC also has an online calcuator for it (you have to supply the Max ERP and relative field value however) here :

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/findvalues.html#RELATIVEFIELD





I expect this to be the sun setting in the west interfering with the signal.


Actually, The Sun does not interfere with terrestrial VHF/UHF signals ...

That being said, at your distance, you might be dealing with some small changes in refractivity -- Basically -- the capability of the "air" to bend signals such that they are regularly receivable a bit beyond curvature of Earth(this is why the "radio horizion" is different from the Optical horizon) - Which happens all the time to some extent, but is variable to some extent (which could potentially change when sun rises/sets, although I don't think it would happen on a regular daily basis), potentially causing some fading to occur at certian times ...

Actually, The Sun does not interfere with terrestrial VHF/UHF signals ...


With satellites, there are times in March and October, where the tilt of the earth causes the sun to be in direct line with a satellite, and loss of signal is often the result. Now this is RF energy, at a much higher frequency, and the dish gives both satellite and solar noise gain.

The above is an extreme case, but it is undisputed. I feel that the solar wind hitting the atmosphere generates a small, but definite increase in the electrical noise floor, dropping S/N ratio during the day. At night, the noise floor drops and weak signals not receivable during the day can be tuned. I am not implying that tropo and e-skip aren't predominant.

The following link talks about solar flares interfereing with radio transmission. And the Aurora Borealis is known to affect things, too. Now I realize most of the ionizing solar radiation is kept away by the earth's magnetic field, but the picture in the solar wind article is amazing and you can see why there would be less atmospheric interaction when the earth is turned away from the sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propagation
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind

With satellites,

Satellites are not "terrestrial" communication. Satellites are satellite communication.

- Trip

With satellites, there are times in March and October, where the tilt of the earth causes the sun to be in direct line with a satellite, and loss of signal is often the result.


Corrrect, when the receiving dish, Sun and Satellite are aligned .... It's why I specified "terrestrial VHF/UHF" reception ...

The thermal noise floor for our 6MHZ channels is about -106.2 dBm .... Changes in the ambient temperature (air) affect this only by fraction of a dB , I don't believe I've seen any information or study which indicates the noise floor on VHF/UHF is effected in a regular, everyday fashion even that much by the sun setting (or being overhead/etc) ...


The following link talks about solar flares interfereing with radio transmission. And the Aurora Borealis is known to affect things, too. Now I realize most of the ionizing solar radiation is kept away by the earth's magnetic field, but the picture in the solar wind article is amazing and you can see why there would be less atmospheric interaction when the earth is turned away from the sun.


Certianly, and increased noise from Auroral "hash" is certianly detectable on Low-VHF and FM frequencies when it occurs (especially if you aim your antenna North) ... During periods of auroral activity, but not on a day to day basis .....

thinktv 16 is down again, i had 97 percent signals. i do a rescan, and i lost them again. does anyone know whats going on. now i don't have any pbs channels on my tv in preble county.

thinktv 16 is down again, i had 97 percent signals. i do a rescan, and i lost them again. does anyone know whats going on. now i don't have any pbs channels on my tv in preble county.

Why would you do a rescan if you were already getting all your channels?

Why would you do a rescan if you were already getting all your channels?

We had continual suggestions in the Cincinnati market that EVERYONE needed to rescan for WCPO-9 last week, after they completed their antenna work and finally began broadcasting at full power & full tower height. Equally unnecessary if you were already getting their signal, but "it couldn't hurt!"

Guess it's one-size-fits-all advice -- rather than explaining in more detail that only those who hadn't been receiving WCPO needed to rescan, it's much simpler to advise all to do so. Hard to imagine people are so dense they couldn't grasp this, but then again...

WKRC needs to do something to fix their reception or else NFL football in the early afternoons is going to not watchable.WKRC broadcasts on VHF channel 12... I believe you said you have a UHF antenna. I don't think WKRC needs to change anything, but rather you should use the right antenna to receive them. :)

dtv insider:

If you go past the WHIO tower often, would you give us an occassional update on how their antenna swap-out work seems to be going?

Thanks,
Radio Flyer

WKRC broadcasts on VHF channel 12... I believe you said you have a UHF antenna. I don't think WKRC needs to change anything, but rather you should use the right antenna to receive them. :)

WKRC could have done us all a big favor and switch to UHF, obviating the need for a larger, more expensive antenna. What ever money they save by broadcasting VHF is going to be lost in viewership. If a person can receive pretty much every other channel on the airwaves but 12, who really cares, then?

Saw on WHIO Channel 7 news tonight an interview with the Chief Engineer (Eastman) talking about installation of the new digital antenna.

According to the news report, the new antenna should be fully operational no later than August 1st.

The story goes on to say reception to the south and west should improve significantly.

You guys in Hamilton, Oxford and Western Hamilton County should be pleasantly surprised. BTW: That is some tall tower - over 1100'.

Stay tuned.

WKRC broadcasts on VHF channel 12... I believe you said you have a UHF antenna. I don't think WKRC needs to change anything, but rather you should use the right antenna to receive them. :)

My reply to you on 6/13: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16644309&highlight=cm4228#post16644309.

If you bother checking the link, I have the correct equipment. See attached TVFool radar map.

I picked my house due to the plethora of possible stations, the height of the terrain, and burried utilities (no power line noise) and few nearby trees. Well, the one tree next to my tower was hit by lightning three times last year. Poor neighbor had to cut it down. Cleared my view to the south for both my DirecTV dish and TV tower (and how lightning hit his tree three times and missed my tower, I do not know. I trust it was due to the three full length ground rods I put into the ground and connected to the tower and house electrical system). The tower was 5 to 10 feet taller than his tree and only 25 feet away.

I have been casually listening/watching the Dayton Dragons game on 7-2 tonight and am seeing frequent breakups/pixeliztion. Anyone else? Ch 7-x has always been a problem for me. I have to change antenna angle every hour or two to get a solid signal lock (hope that goes away when the new antenna is in operation).

You guys in Hamilton, Oxford and Western Hamilton County should be pleasantly surprised. BTW: That is some tall tower - over 1100'.

Stay tuned.

1100' feet? :eek:

The following brief video report is now on WHIO's website, and shows the new permanent digital antenna to be installed atop their tower, as well as the old temporary one side-mounted lower down. I think it's pretty new (might even be from today), since the reporter predicts "10 days to two weeks" for completion, which agrees well with the info ncincy1 provided earlier today.

http://www.whiotv.com/video/20090747/index.html

1100' feet? :eek:

I stand corrected. According to the WHIO news story, the approximate tower height is 1120' - double :eek:

Have a good weekend everyone!

Jack

If anyone here is using the DTVPal for TVGOS compatability mode, here is some information.

Unfortunately, it appears that the DTVPal is unable, for whatever reason, to pass along WHIO's TVGOS data stream to "legacy" TVGOS devices. I had it working for a few days a couple of weeks ago, but it has since stopped working and has never come back. I'm now using WKRC and a Cincinnati zip code to get listings, and things areworking fine

skylab,

FYI, WHIO hasn't been sending any TVGoS data for a while (couple of weeks or so I believe) ... I can't check with TSreader to see if the streams are there currently, as they appear to be off air ... Last I checked, a couple of days ago they still weren't there though ...

Also, Someone in DTVPal DVR thread reported contacting them, and also reported he was told they will begin sending TVGoS data again when they receive and replace TVGoS equipment ...

Update: here's link to that post with the info :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16801543&highlight=#post16801543

WKRC could have done us all a big favor and switch to UHF, obviating the need for a larger, more expensive antenna. What ever money they save by broadcasting VHF is going to be lost in viewership. If a person can receive pretty much every other channel on the airwaves but 12, who really cares, then?
You have over-simplified.

WKRC's "loss" will soon be WHIO's "gain".
Next ratings period for Channel 7's southern/western viewing area should be interesting due to their new UHF "top mount" antenna.

Adding insult to injury, with WBDT's recent power increase - and offering CW programming in HD will not help the ratings for CinCW Local 12.2.

Stay tuned!

WKRC's "loss" will soon be WHIO's "gain".
Next ratings period for Channel 7's southern/western viewing area should be interesting due to their new UHF "top mount" antenna.
Stay tuned!I fail to see what WKRC is "losing." There are two hi-VHF stations in Cincinnati, WKRC on 12 and WCPO on 10. That's two of the four "major affiliates" in the city. Cincinnati for YEARS had analog affiliates on 5, 9 and 12 VHF stations, so all of the antennas in the area should already have VHF capability.

This isn't like Lexington, KY market which was completely a UHF market in the analog days. They have a mildly more legitimate gripe with new VHF channels because the existing antennas were UHF only.

Has anyone been experiencing audio dropouts on WDTN the last few days? At first I thought it was yet another glitch with my htpc, but it happens on every TV in the house.

Has anyone been experiencing audio dropouts on WDTN the last few days? At first I thought it was yet another glitch with my htpc, but it happens on every TV in the house.

Yes, I have noticed both audio dropouts and video glitches on WDTN on Sunday and Monday. They seemed to occur only on NBC network feeds and not on local programming. The problem seems to have been fixed as of this morning; did not notice any problem on the Today show.

oh good! It was starting to get quite annoying.

Picture slideshow of WHIO's upgrade:

http://projects.daytondailynews.com/cache/galleries/News/Local/072309whiotvtower/

Picture slideshow of WHIO's upgrade:

http://projects.daytondailynews.com/cache/galleries/News/Local/072309whiotvtower/

That last picture is just wrong in so many ways! :eek: :D

I giggled like a school boy.

Picture slideshow of WHIO's upgrade:

http://projects.daytondailynews.com/cache/galleries/News/Local/072309whiotvtower/

Did anyone see on National Geographic Channel last night, "World's Toughest Fixes"? It was about a crew changing out an antenna on top of a 2000 foot tall tower. It was very interesting and very scary.

Seemed timely given WHIO's antenna change. Repeats Sunday morning at 2AM and Thursday afternoon at 5PM.

Once this upgrade is finished and if I receive Channel 7 as expected (I currently am not), this means that should I switch over to a pair of 42XG's (one pointed at Dayton, one pointed at Cinci), I won't have worry about missing out CBS or ABC.

What is the current status of 22 and 45? Before the full switch, I could receive them both, on an indoor antenna. Now I cannot, and I have a roof-mounted antenna.

Hmmm...just did a TVfool coverage map. I am buried in a valley of Violet for these two. Strange that I didn't have this problem before, though.

That last picture is just wrong in so many ways! :eek: :D I saw the name of the company, "Guaranteed Erections" and thought that was a cool name (for a tower building/erecting company). When you guys pointed it out, I realized that I missed the "We always get it up" part ! :D

The Dayton Ohio Time Warner division is going to renumber and regroup channels for their customers sometime in August. They had a half page ad last week in the Dayton Daily News about the change.

I can only imagine the grief this will cause although it has needed to be done for quite awhile.

My main issue is that currently, the HD channels do not follow the numbering convention of their SD counterparts. For example, TW Dayton has WHIO which is "Channel 2" on channel 9 for the SD and channel 702 for the HD.

I talked to a surprisingly well informed, helpful CSR over the weekend who said the main goal is to "group like channels together". Ok. Whatever. Let's just do it and get it over with.

The Dayton Ohio Time Warner division is going to renumber and regroup channels for their customers sometime in August. They had a half page ad last week in the Dayton Daily News about the change.

I can only imagine the grief this will cause although it has needed to be done for quite awhile.

My main issue is that currently, the HD channels do not follow the numbering convention of their SD counterparts. For example, TW Dayton has WHIO which is "Channel 2" on channel 9 for the SD and channel 702 for the HD.

I talked to a surprisingly well informed, helpful CSR over the weekend who said the main goal is to "group like channels together". Ok. Whatever. Let's just do it and get it over with.

Don't be surprised if you don't see a change in the channel assignments for the SD counterparts of your HD locals.

The Dayton Ohio Time Warner division is going to renumber and regroup channels for their customers sometime in August. They had a half page ad last week in the Dayton Daily News about the change.

I can only imagine the grief this will cause although it has needed to be done for quite awhile.

My main issue is that currently, the HD channels do not follow the numbering convention of their SD counterparts. For example, TW Dayton has WHIO which is "Channel 2" on channel 9 for the SD and channel 702 for the HD.

I talked to a surprisingly well informed, helpful CSR over the weekend who said the main goal is to "group like channels together". Ok. Whatever. Let's just do it and get it over with.


WDTN is Channel 2. The reason it is on Channel 9 is in the days of analog and 2 was on cable channel 2. The cable connectors would leak and would cause ghosting.

This website item was updated just after 4 PM today -- doesn't offer much new beyond confirmation that WHIO's permanent digital antenna is still expected to be fired up later this week or early next:

http://www.whiotv.com/news/19757030/detail.html

Excerpt: WHIO-TV expects to have the work completed by late this week or early next week. The permanent transmitter will give viewers in the Miami Valley a stronger signal from WHIO-TV.

The current digital transmitter is and always has been mounted on the side of the tower, and will remain there as a backup transmitter.

The current digital transmitter is and always has been mounted on the side of the tower, and will remain there as a backup transmitter.
Interesting that they've managed to figure out how to mount a large, heavy transmitter to the side of the antenna tower. ;)

This website item was updated just after 4 PM today -- doesn't offer much new beyond confirmation that WHIO's permanent digital antenna is still expected to be fired up later this week or early next:

http://www.whiotv.com/news/19757030/detail.html

Excerpt: WHIO-TV expects to have the work completed by late this week or early next week. The permanent transmitter will give viewers in the Miami Valley a stronger signal from WHIO-TV.

The current digital transmitter is and always has been mounted on the side of the tower, and will remain there as a backup transmitter.

Could this be the reason I'm not getting the TVGOs data on my DTVPal DVR? Seems I lost the guide data when they started working on thier tower.http://www.whiotv.com/2009/0727/20193226_240X180.jpg

hyghwayman

The loss of TVGOS service seems to be affecting many CBS stations across the country, not just WHIO. I seem to recall reading, maybe in this thread, a hardware/software change made to the equipment that many stations use.

TVGoS streams are now (currently) present in WHIO's Transport stream ... They were gone for the past several weeks per info in my last post on that subject, here :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16850760#post16850760

Has anyone else with Dayton Time Warner noticed a change in WHIO on ClearQAM? Sometime in the past week it switched channels, and in the transition lost PSIP, or at least it's virtual channel number. So now instead of being 7-1, it's 111-2, which is really annoying.

Also, for as long as I've had a QAM tuner, I've noticed that WBDT also doesn't have a virtual channel number. For a while it was just listed as 99-1, but switched to 96-1 about a month ago. The WBDT situation is silly, but I'm used to it. However the change for WHIO is downright annoying.

Anyone have a guess as to whether there's a reason for this, or if anything can be done? Is it possible that Time Warner's engineers goofed a configuration and just don't know, since folks with QAM tuners aren't their primary audience?

Has anyone else with Dayton Time Warner noticed a change in WHIO on ClearQAM? Sometime in the past week it switched channels, and in the transition lost PSIP, or at least it's virtual channel number. So now instead of being 7-1, it's 111-2, which is really annoying.

Also, for as long as I've had a QAM tuner, I've noticed that WBDT also doesn't have a virtual channel number. For a while it was just listed as 99-1, but switched to 96-1 about a month ago. The WBDT situation is silly, but I'm used to it. However the change for WHIO is downright annoying.

Anyone have a guess as to whether there's a reason for this, or if anything can be done? Is it possible that Time Warner's engineers goofed a configuration and just don't know, since folks with QAM tuners aren't their primary audience?

Same here - lost 7-1, but my QAM tuner is not seeing 111-2 which means I can't get WHIO in HD at all now...

I am located near Yellow Springs and I am using a Dish Network DTVPal OTA DVR as my digital converter box.

I have not been receiving the TVGOS information from WHIO for at least a month.

I have seen on this forum (and also the DTVPal forum) that the TVGOS info HAS been available for the past few days, BUT

I STILL am not receiving the info.

Is anyone in the Dayton area actually receiving TVGOS today?

Thanks!

Ken

Ken,

Looking at their Transport stream with a analyzer (Tsreader) --- The TVGoS datastreams currently (7:25pm 8/1) are again NOT present in WHIO's Transport stream .... (subject to change without notice ;) They must be continuing to have some issues with it ...

I've been mostly using WKRC for TVGoS listings via a DTVPal DVR (Cincy DMA zip code/Get Cincy station listings via TVGoS) ... If I get a chance if/when the TVGoS streams are again present again from WHIO, I'll try to remember to see if it's working here from them or not ... Last I tried it (well over a month ago/before the current issues with TVGoS and WHIO or WBNS) from WHIO though it did work for Dayton station listings (except WRGT and WDTN), as long as I input a Dayton DMA Zip code ...

Folks who did manage to get the listings from WHIO's streams for the time they were back over the last week or so may not notice they're gone again for a few days - If they notice at all/If WHIO gets the streams back up soon ... (as the listings populate the DTV Pal DVR guide for up to a week ahead) .....

I am now receiving Channel 7 in Oxford without any obvious issues. The image looks clear and the audio sounded normal. And since I have a second antenna pointed at Dayton, I have 22 and 45 added back to my channel selection.

I am now receiving Channel 7 in Oxford without any obvious issues. The image looks clear and the audio sounded normal. And since I have a second antenna pointed at Dayton, I have 22 and 45 added back to my channel selection.

...but am still hopeful that WHIO's long-awaited tower work will be completed early this week as predicted, and their signal will improve enough for me to receive them too! :rolleyes:

Just got a couple of e-mails from Chuck Eastman, WHIO's chief engineer, and with his permission, here's what he says:

"Good morning,

The antenna is mounted finally and we are installing the new hardline to feed it. Depending on weather, we should have it on-line next week."

He later re-emphasized:

"...please remember, this date is dependant on weather."

So STAY TUNED, folks, we appear to be looking at sometime next week, if the stars are properly aligned! :D

I fail to see what WKRC is "losing." There are two hi-VHF stations in Cincinnati, WKRC on 12 and WCPO on 10. That's two of the four "major affiliates" in the city. Cincinnati for YEARS had analog affiliates on 5, 9 and 12 VHF stations, so all of the antennas in the area should already have VHF capability.

This isn't like Lexington, KY market which was completely a UHF market in the analog days. They have a mildly more legitimate gripe with new VHF channels because the existing antennas were UHF only.
I beg to disagree.

Most observers say UHF is the place to be in the digital world. UHF penetrates buildings better and is more reliable for indoor reception than VHF. Furthermore, VHF doesn't work very with mobile TV, which is supposed to be the wave of the future. For example, at my brother's house in an East Columbus suburb, the OTA signal of WSYX (DTV VHF 13) is very finicky with a set of rabbit ears. Someone walking on the wrong side of the room causes the picture to pixelate and his house is only 13 miles from the WSYX tower. On the other hand, I have a WinTV card in my office computer in Downtown Columbus and can pick up WDEM-LP (DTV UHF 17) just fine with a $6 UHF antenna from Big Lots even though they only have 1.05-kw of ERP! (I am 3.5 miles away from the tower). Bottom line is that watching WSYX is way too much hassle not too different than watching analog UHF in the old days unless you have an outdoor antenna.

WSYX has 59-kw of power which is far more than WCPO or WKRC have, so I can only imagine how difficult locking onto their signals must be. In fact, Sinclair has petitioned the FCC to dump Channel 13 in order to move to Channel 48. I think that says a lot because Sinclair is known both for their technical saavy and their cheapness. WKRC's engineer also stated in an interview, that he would rather have Channel 31 back, but the decision to use Channel 12 was made by the old regime at Cheap Channel.

Here's a little trivia for you: Back in the early 1960's, when CBS ruled the world, WKRC was known as being the most unsuccessful big-city CBS affiliate in the country. Part of the reason for this was that WKRC had a short tower and an awful signal. In fact, all of the Cincinnati stations at the time were on short towers, the idea being to minimize overlap with sister stations WLWC, WLWD, WLWI and WTVN-TV. WHIO and WHAS sucessfully poached WKRC's viewers as a result, forcing WKRC to build a new tall tower and for many years using the slogan "Tall Twelve." I don't know if history is repeating itself due to cable penetration, but it will be interesting to see.

I beg to disagree.

Most observers say UHF is the place to be in the digital world. UHF penetrates buildings better and is more reliable for indoor reception than VHF. Furthermore, VHF doesn't work very with mobile TV, which is supposed to be the wave of the future. For example, at my brother's house in an East Columbus suburb, the OTA signal of WSYX (DTV VHF 13) is very finicky with a set of rabbit ears. Someone walking on the wrong side of the room causes the picture to pixelate and his house is only 13 miles from the WSYX tower. On the other hand, I have a WinTV card in my office computer in Downtown Columbus and can pick up WDEM-LP (DTV UHF 17) just fine with a $6 UHF antenna from Big Lots even though they only have 1.05-kw of ERP! (I am 3.5 miles away from the tower). Bottom line is that watching WSYX is way too much hassle not too different than watching analog UHF in the old days unless you have an outdoor antenna.

WSYX has 59-kw of power which is far more than WCPO or WKRC have, so I can only imagine how difficult locking onto their signals must be.Not difficult at all with a proper set up. OTA TV was not designed for indoor antennas, and for people using UHF antennas and complaining that they have problems with WCPO and WKRC, I have about as much sympathy for them as I do someone trying to receive DirecTV with a salad bowl.

In fact, Sinclair has petitioned the FCC to dump Channel 13 in order to move to Channel 48. I think that says a lot because Sinclair is known both for their technical saavy and their cheapness.The only reason Sinclair wants to move channels is for mobileTV.

WKRC's engineer also stated in an interview, that he would rather have Channel 31 back, but the decision to use Channel 12 was made by the old regime at Cheap Channel.I can understand his statement, based on the many people giving his station grief for being on VHF, even though in most cases it's not warranted.

Here's a little trivia for you: Back in the early 1960's, when CBS ruled the world,Hey, I thought NBC ruled the world then :)

I don't know if history is repeating itself due to cable penetration, but it will be interesting to see.I just don't see any huge and monumental "shift" in viewers occurring as was proclaimed earlier in the thread.

The only reason Sinclair wants to move channels is for mobileTV.

While it is a big reason now, it is most certainly not the only reason. They tried to get WDKY moved off channel 4 as early as 2001 (though it's a low-VHF and a different story). When channel elections started in 2005, they tried to get WSYX moved off of VHF then, and the FCC rejected their bid to move to channel 36 and move WTTE back to 28. WMSN was ineligible to move during the channel elections due to having two in-core channels (11 and 47). WLOS has nowhere to go on UHF.

Mobile DTV didn't come into existence until 2007.

Sinclair kept all the stations with VHF analogs and UHF digitals on UHF before it was the cool thing to do. They've never liked VHF, probably because they'd had real world experience with it before the transition.

- Trip

Sinclair kept all the stations with VHF analogs and UHF digitals on UHF before it was the cool thing to do. They've never liked VHF, probably because they'd had real world experience with it before the transition.

- Trip

Given how cheap Sinclair is reputed to be, if they are willing to spend the extra bucks on UHF transmitter hardware and on a higher power bill, there must be some reason for it. If there were no difference between the bands, you would think an operation like that would be all over saving on electricity. (For the record, I don't think Sinclair is as bad as people say. I think they do a pretty decent job at WSYX/WTTE.)

Not difficult at all with a proper set up. OTA TV was not designed for indoor antennas, and for people using UHF antennas and complaining that they have problems with WCPO and WKRC, I have about as much sympathy for them as I do someone trying to receive DirecTV with a salad bowl.

Wow! Did you used to work in customer relations at General Motors? Or maybe the BMV? Just kidding ... lol

I am a relatively technically saavy guy, but when you have to work to get a stable picture on WSYX, at three times the power of WKRC and WCPO, and only 13 miles from the tower, and in flat or rolling terrain, and in one of the higher portions of Franklin County ... well, I say there must be a problem. And if I have a problem, I don't think from a customer service standpoint there are enough people who are going to mess around with it, especially when there are 5 other 1000-kw UHF stations (WOSU is 505-kw) that come in with very little effort. Like I said, in my experience getting a 1.05-kw low power digital station is easier than dealing with WSYX. I know it can be done and it's technically an adequate signal, but you still have to consider the hassle factor.


I just don't see any huge and monumental "shift" in viewers occurring as was proclaimed earlier in the thread.

I don't know that I do, either. But for the 20% of the market that doesn't subscribe to cable, 50-75% of their news stations have suddenly become hard to recieve. They "may" invest in an outdoor antenna, buy why do so if all you need to do is watch CSI and WHIO comes in just as well? More importantly, as to the news audience, even a 10% shift to WLWT is a big deal.

Cable is a getting a bit too larded up on sports channels and is too expensive for what you get. If one of the networks can do a credible job with a broad-based news subchannel, and a movie subchannel (This-TV kind of sucks--too many dated '70's movies), I would be inclined to dump the $600/yr. basic cable expense.

While it is a big reason now ...


Mobile DTV has been something the folks at Sinclair (A couple of those folks who are also heavily involved in ATSC work) have been pining for, and working on for a long time .....

Before M/H, there was the "somewhat related" AVSB/EVSB, and before that the "defintely related" Sinclair COFDM petition .....

Concerning the latter, Impulse noise issues were even more of a concern for COFDM back then ...

Wow! Did you used to work in customer relations at General Motors? Or maybe the BMV? Just kidding ... lolNo, just a bit of venting my frustrations of people either not listening or not paying attention... wanting things to work the way they "want" or is easy for them instead of doing it right, and then complaining that it doesn't work.

I am a relatively technically saavy guy, but when you have to work to get a stable picture on WSYX, at three times the power of WKRC and WCPO, and only 13 miles from the tower, and in flat or rolling terrain, and in one of the higher portions of Franklin County ... well, I say there must be a problem.But, did you use an outdoor directional VHF antenna? If not, why would you expect it to work?

And if I have a problem, I don't think from a customer service standpoint there are enough people who are going to mess around with it, especially when there are 5 other 1000-kw UHF stations (WOSU is 505-kw) that come in with very little effort. Like I said, in my experience getting a 1.05-kw low power digital station is easier than dealing with WSYX. I know it can be done and it's technically an adequate signal, but you still have to consider the hassle factor.Again, from your earlier post you stated you were using indoor rabbit ears. It's great if something like that works but that's not what TV was designed for. I didn't think it was very difficult to call up TNT pictures and have them send a guy out with an antenna and install it on my roof... probably easier than calling to install cable or satellite for that matter. Just in case you're wondering, I would have done it myself but it was easier to convince my condo HOA to let me install the antenna in the common area if I had a "professional installer" do it. :)

I don't know that I do, either. But for the 20% of the market that doesn't subscribe to cable, 50-75% of their news stations have suddenly become hard to recieve. They "may" invest in an outdoor antenna, buy why do so if all you need to do is watch CSI and WHIO comes in just as well? More importantly, as to the news audience, even a 10% shift to WLWT is a big deal.I'm sure there are some that would think along those lines, but it's partly that thinking that frustrates me. If you want cable TV you get cable installed. If you want satellite TV you get a dish installed. If you want antenna TV, then what's so difficult about getting an antenna installed (or doing it yourself)? The antenna doesn't have a recurring cost, while the other two options do! And, most good outdoor antennas are priced less than one month of cable or satellite service.

Cable is a getting a bit too larded up on sports channels and is too expensive for what you get. If one of the networks can do a credible job with a broad-based news subchannel, and a movie subchannel (This-TV kind of sucks--too many dated '70's movies), I would be inclined to dump the $600/yr. basic cable expense.And on that we agree! :D (Hint: you can do it, and an HD DVR makes OTA-only even more appealing)

I didn't check the FCC listings, but our Lima NBC affiliate has acquired the Lima CBS and ABC stations and is aiming to broadcast OTA on 35.1 (+35.2?). Just a test pattern now, but their sales manager seemed to think there would be programming someday soon.

i wonder how long whio will have their channel down. its been more than 15 days, and this is getting stupid. they should have it working by now.

i wonder how long whio will have their channel down. its been more than 15 days, and this is getting stupid. they should have it working by now.

Not to repeat my post from last week (but what the hey, I'll go ahead and repeat it anyway! :rolleyes:):
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Just got a couple of e-mails from Chuck Eastman, WHIO's chief engineer, and with his permission, here's what he says:

"Good morning,

The antenna is mounted finally and we are installing the new hardline to feed it. Depending on weather, we should have it on-line next week."

He later re-emphasized:

"...please remember, this date is dependant on weather."

So STAY TUNED, folks, we appear to be looking at sometime next week, if the stars are properly aligned!
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I'm impatient too -- but Mr. Eastman simply gave THIS WEEK as a target. One good (?) sign -- their digital signal appears to be off the air completely right now, shortly before noon. Might mean they're busily working on the tower, and today MIGHT be the day. Let's hope!

i wonder how long whio will have their channel down. its been more than 15 days... Has it ?? I wonder what channel we've been watching then.... Hmmm :eek: :eek:

i wonder how long whio will have their channel down. its been more than 15 days, and this is getting stupid. they should have it working by now.
I have it turned on right now. Looks fine to me.

I've seen it drop in and out, sometimes for long stretches. Even when it works, it can be flaky, but it does seem to be on more often than not. Are they working on the tower? I'm new to DTV in this region and still trying to catch up on this thread and the Cinci one so I apologize for not being up to date.

All the Dayton channels are full "strength" on my TV's signal meter, and WHIO-DT is 100% green as well, when it works.

I've seen it drop in and out, sometimes for long stretches. Even when it works, it can be flaky, but it does seem to be on more often than not. Are they working on the tower? I'm new to DTV in this region and still trying to catch up on this thread and the Cinci one so I apologize for not being up to date.

All the Dayton channels are full "strength" on my TV's signal meter, and WHIO-DT is 100% green as well, when it works.

Quick update -- until now, WHIO has been living with a temporary side-mounted digital antenna on their tower. For a number of reasons, the removal of their old analog antenna from atop their tower, and replacement on top with a permanent digital antenna, was delayed. This work has now been on-going for 2 or 3 weeks, and WHIO warned they'd have to turn off their OTA signal periodically to protect workers passing by the temporary antenna.

Their chief engineer had targeted this week for completion of all this work, but here we are on Friday, and it looks like it hasn't ended yet! Those of us a little further away from Dayton, particularly to the southwest, are eagerly awaiting a much improved digital signal!