well every channel except 16 is showing 85% + and 16 is 75%. Other night I scanned and got Muncie and Ft Wayne. LOL

"Take it off. You could be over driving the tuner."

Nope, had one on my antenna for 15 years. It's something else. The signal is showing around 50% or less for Channel 2 and 75 or better for all the other Dayton stations. Gonna swap out TV's to make sure the tuner isn't the issue.

Did you even try it? It could even be the amp going bad.

Wow. I feel silly. I just bought a Vizio E322VL and screwed in my Time Warner Cable coax cable into it, and was shocked by all the channels I got.

I am receiving the normal 480i channels 2-70, but I also get a bunch of other channels, 720p and and 1080i, like 75-2 and more. I must get 100 channels. On what I thought was basic analog cable.

Where can I find a breakdown of what all these channels are?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I am trying to learn.

Edit*
After some more searching on here, I came across a site that lists clearqam channels. I think this is exactly what I was looking for.
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:45066#lineup_6342886

Wow. I feel silly. I just bought a Vizio E322VL and screwed in my Time Warner Cable coax cable into it, and was shocked by all the channels I got.

Looks like you are one of the lucky few who get both Dayton and Cincinnati HD locals in the clear. No such luck here. (Fairfield, northern suburb of Cincy)

For those out there scratching their heads after clicking his link you need to use the drop-down list to switch it from OTA channels to cable clear QAM channels.

SiliconDustHDHomeRun + BeyondTV with TWC 2-70 service (no digital boxes).

Everything was working great up until mid July. Since then, I've not been able to get any of the 98 and 99 TWC subchannels (which appear to be the SD digital feeds of most of the HD channels I can find, plus several we don't have as HD -- 12 and 19 from Cincinnati).

All the digital TVs in the house can still tune to the subchannels, and the SiliconDust sees the 98/99 subchannels about one out of every five scans, and when it does hit and include the channel in the digital tuner status, it comes up with nothing when I click the channel in the QuickView. BeyondTV can't tune the channels at all, I presume because the SiliconDust is having trouble. Non 98-99 subchannels appear to be all there, and operating nicely (Highway Patrol every morning at 5AM! on THS).

Anybody else run into the 98 and 99 TWC subchannels vanishing from a SiliconDust? Anybody have a thought of why this would be happening?

Cran

New subchannel in Dayton 9/26/11?
Looks like "Bounce TV" should be on the air in Dayton this Monday @ 12noon on WBDT 26.2 Cincinnati, TBD.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DMAS 27, 30, 43, 60, 62
LIN TV will carry the proposed broadcast network for African Americans in Indianapolis, Hartford-New Haven, Norfolk, Dayton and Mobile-Pensacola for a projected 50% clearance at launch this fall.

I hope someone here can help me.

I have several TV Tuners in my house that can receive Clear QAM signals. It seems that all of them can not receive WHIO HD and WPTD HD. According to the Silicon Dust website WHIO HD is supposed to be at 75.2 and WPTD HD is 75.5.

I have re-scanned for digital channels several times and no channels in the 75.* range are found. When I tune these channels directly the TV will not tune to that channel. I get all the other Clear QAM channels without a problem. I only subscribe to basic cable. Could the filter on my line be blocking the signal?

Thanks if you can help.

Dave

I hope someone here can help me.

I have several TV Tuners in my house that can receive Clear QAM signals. It seems that all of them can not receive WHIO HD and WPTD HD. According to the Silicon Dust website WHIO HD is supposed to be at 75.2 and WPTD HD is 75.5.

I have re-scanned for digital channels several times and no channels in the 75.* range are found. When I tune these channels directly the TV will not tune to that channel. I get all the other Clear QAM channels without a problem. I only subscribe to basic cable. Could the filter on my line be blocking the signal?

Thanks if you can help.

Dave

I am convinced TWC FUBARS the channel mappings for clear QAM on purpose. On mine it even appears they now assign wrong channels, for instance, I scanned manually and found channel 12.1 and Media Center was determined to assign it 19.2. I realize this is a PC issue but I bet the same BS is taking place on other appliances that have QAM tuners. Oddly, the one TV I have that has a QAM tuner seems to do OK, but both Win7 Media Center PCs I have show the constantly changing channel behavior.

I live north of Cincy in Fairfield, so my issues are with the Cincy HD stations. I also only have the TWC basic cable (the $14 variety, locals only plus WGN and CNN HN).

[edit] Also, what caught my attention in your post was where you said the channels in the 75.* range dont even show up. This is exactly what I see in Media Center and I have to add them manually.

I am convinced TWC FUBARS the channel mappings for clear QAM on purpose. On mine it even appears they now assign wrong channels, for instance, I scanned manually and found channel 12.1 and Media Center was determined to assign it 19.2. I realize this is a PC issue but I bet the same BS is taking place on other appliances that have QAM tuners. Oddly, the one TV I have that has a QAM tuner seems to do OK, but both Win7 Media Center PCs I have show the constantly changing channel behavior.

I live north of Cincy in Fairfield, so my issues are with the Cincy HD stations. I also only have the TWC basic cable (the $14 variety, locals only plus WGN and CNN HN).

[edit] Also, what caught my attention in your post was where you said the channels in the 75.* range dont even show up. This is exactly what I see in Media Center and I have to add them manually.
Yeah, even though cable has to provide the broadcast channels unencrypted, I don't think there is any rule/regulation that states they have to do it consistently on the same channel. So, moving it around for whatever reason/motivation they have is no big deal since their set top boxes will adjust to the channel mappings they set, and they really don't care at all if it screws up your own stuff, as they want you to pay for a box and do it "their" way anyway.

It is NOT a conspriacy..:rolleyes:

I am convinced TWC FUBARS the channel mappings for clear QAM on purpose.You are wrong.

Anybody getting anything on 26.2?

Anybody getting anything on 26.2?

Yep. Been watching it on occasions since Monday here in Northern Hamilton County (Cincinnati) - "Soul Train" @ 6pm - classic 70's.

Yes on 26.2...also on 9-3...

Yes on 26.2...also on 9-3...

9.3 is "Living Well Network" - in Cincinnati.
Are you referring to 9.3 somewhere else? Bounce TV will be coming to WXIX 19.2 in January.

9.3 is "Living Well Network" - in Cincinnati.
Are you referring to 9.3 somewhere else? Bounce TV will be coming to WXIX 19.2 in January.

Just stating that 9.3 comes in also. So that are 2 NEW channels.

You are wrong.


Well, gee, thanks for the articulate and thoughtful insight. I based my opinion on the Silicon Dust Forum help gurus letting me know about the workarounds and settings in their software to deal with this very issue.

At least tell us why you think I am wrong.

At least tell us why you think I am wrong. I'm really interested too ;)

I'm really interested too ;)

Was hoping and guessing he might work for TWC in some other city and at least give some insight about this "phenomenon". Looked at his previous posts and he appears to to post all over the different city threads. Perhaps since he is an all-powerful moderator his opinion requires no validation? (lol)

So many people these days are "haters" and I strive to NOT be but several years ago I listened in on the extension at my elderly mother's house while she talked to TWC about her service tier. I had bought her a HDTV and she was delighted with it but was complaining to me how her cable bill skyrocketed. I was shocked and amazed at how they took advantage of her lack of technical knowledge about modern stuff and had her believing she needed to buy a cable TV package which included a nascar channel and Bloomberg something or other. I interrupted and immediately started chastising the unscrupulous rep then proceeded to set her up with the cheapest setup for her needs and ended up saving her $20 a month.

Moral of the story: If they would blatantly lie to a little old lady to rip her off on her monthly billing they most certainly would think nothing of manipulating the clear QAM channels to not work well on home PCs and clear QAM televisions.

Was hoping and guessing he might work for TWC in some other city I don't work for TWC but have worked WITH TWC in the past. Also, being part owner in a CATV system I can state with authority TWC is NOT "manipulating" just to 'mess' with you nor are they involved in a 'conspiracy' with clear QAM. Dude, it is only local stations that are clear QAM. It isn't worth the hassle, man hours and money to keep switching them around just to mess with you. They will however swap things around in order to conserve the most bandwidth possible. 99% of the TV's have no problem with this. Can't say tuner cards in computers are their utmost priority for QAM. I know they aren't in my system.

As for the cable rep trying to make a sale, I am sure it wasn't personal. Sales generate money for the reps, so as you and I would both do, we would try to make a sale in order to put hot dogs on the table instead of peanut butter sandwhiches.

I remember when TWC was "moving" things around every 2-3 weeks. As you say, their set-tops handle this transparently, and that's their primary concern. What do you think was the reaction when someone said "Hey, every time we move these, it screws up people who use the QAM tuners in their TV or have QAM cards in their PC" ? Who thinks anyone said "yeah, we'd better stop doing that" ? :D

They've only moved the channels once in the last 2 years that I recall (April I think it was).

They manipulate the PSIP so the virtual channels change frequently. At the moment, WKRCDT maps to 12.2 instead of 12.1 and WXIXDT remaps to channel 64.1 even after I manually set it to 74.2. A few weeks ago when I last checked it was mapped to 19.2, should be 19.1. I enter all channels manually and simply ignore what the mappings say, only way I can do it and have it actually record a show successfully.

It becomes quite a fiasco when I manually enter a channel as the QAM sees it, then hope in the 5 minutes it takes to rename it and map the proper TV listings to it that it hasn't also mapped itself to another virtual channel that shows up in my channel list.

As for the cable rep trying to make a sale, I am sure it wasn't personal. Sales generate money for the reps, so as you and I would both do, we would try to make a sale in order to put hot dogs on the table instead of peanut butter sandwhiches.

No, sorry, I never have and never will be greedy or possessed with money. I'm perfectly happy with being healthy and having good friends. Peanut butter is fine with me.

Was hoping and guessing he might work for TWC in some other city and at least give some insight about this "phenomenon". Looked at his previous posts and he appears to to post all over the different city threads. Perhaps since he is an all-powerful moderator his opinion requires no validation? (lol)

He's one of the main mods that I've seen in the entire HDTV Info and Reception as well as HDTV Programming areas of the forum. I'm sure he's got a lot of threads to go through and review, has seen your "accusation" many times over and is tired of seeing it, and does not have time to write up an articulate response every time he sees it.

That said, I don't think you are "wrong." The cable company does move the channels around fairly frequently, and it adversely affects viewers that don't use their set top boxes and, they don't care. But it goes further than just "not caring." If it were to come up to them, they'd see it as a good thing, as it incentivizes you to rent one of their boxes. They really only have clear QAM because they have to by law.

So is there some evil wizard at the TWC office in Blue Ash who is stirring around the cable channels and laughing at you? Probably not. But do they give a CRAP about your problem? No, not a bit.

Keep in mind though, they're running a business, and the goal is obviously to make money. That's how things work. But, as a consumer you should be valuable to them. Every cable subscriber has an excuse as to why they "put up with" the evil cable company. But the solution is really pretty simple. If you don't like them, stop paying them! I see the same excuses with the Bengals. People complain and complain about how awful the team is and that ownership is terrible, and many of those people complaining are season ticket holders!

If you're happy with the service provided, and, even with the problems and dislikes you have with the service, still think it's worth the amount of money you're paying, then of course keep paying and enjoying. But there are a growing number of us who aren't interested in putting any more money towards these things and have found other alternatives.

Sorry for the mini-rant. :)

Don't worry though. The cable company will soon be nothing more than an ISP. My crystal ball has Internet-based content providers on the horizon. The technology is there for someone to start up a "cable" company that is completely Internet based. You could have a set top box that plugs into Ethernet and behaves just like a cable box does today, only you'd be subscribing to "Nifty Internet Company" cable, delivered over your Internet connection.

My beef is with the PSIP info, or whatever it it called on QAM, that cable companies are not required to keep apparently. My channel moves are rare and not that big of a deal, its the "phantom remaps" that randomly change quite frequently.

That and the basic service I use for Cincy channels has gone up quite a bit in price percentage-wise recently. I get Dayton stations well enough when the leaves drop, need clear QAM for the rest of the year.

I was actually pretty close last spring to getting the rest of the HOA to agree to an antenna on the roof servicing the entire 12 unit building. Unfortunately, we had other unexpected expenses and I can't even get an answer from them anymore. FIOPTICS also became available here in July, I think several of the residents here switched to that because it was cheaper.

Perhaps next year.

WRCX TV 40, Dayton?

Is channel 40 analog off the air? I used to be able to get them OTA here in Northern Hamilton County with outdoor antenna, but no more.

I'm still receiving all of the Dayton digital stations and also, barely, due to distance/low-power status, getting WWRD-LP channel 32 analog.

I know they both have CP's for transition to digital but can't seem to talk to anyone regarding status of these stations.

Thanks.

Is channel 40 analog off the air?.

it's a bit difficult to tell from here, as 1st adjacent channel WHIO is very strong here(therefore I may be seeing only "hash" from WHIO rather than video black from WRCX "behind" WHIO's digital hash), but it looks like WRCX transmitter may still be on the air, but there definitely is no programming, and it has been that way since sometime over the weekend ....

Sometime Saturday or Sunday there still was programming on WRCX, but at one point I noticed it looked like either their Receiver for ION feed froze up (or they lost the feed/etc), or perhaps they lost their STL ...

Anyway, that sort of thing from them or WWRD-LP even going off air unexpectedly for short (or long) periods has not been exactly unusual ...

WLWD-LP 20 Springfield/Daystar (previously W20CL/TBN) has pretty much managed to stay on air the past couple of years(as was the case with W22DE until they were displaced by WCPO on 22), which is more than I can say for WRCX/WWRD or any of the Cincy LP Analogs ....

WRCX TV 40, Dayton?

Is channel 40 analog off the air? What did they say when you called them to ask ?

What did they say when you called them to ask ?

I gotta say it was a strange conversation. I asked if if they were off -the-air and when do they expect to resume analog broadcast. Whoever answered the phone seemed uninterested and said "they were working on it." No, thanks for calling, or reporting the issue, or for watching the station, etc.
As far as transitioning to digital, the guy said sometime by year's end. Hmmmm?

They probably weren't sure what to do when the phone rang... :)

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but low-power stations weren't req'd to transition to digital and may still not have a deadline, so they really don't have any urgency. Of course, their # of viewers is likely declining being available only on analog.

The LPTV deadline is September 1, 2015.

- Trip

I'm pretty sure it was WRCX TV 40 that shut down their analog transmitter a few years ago and were going to go digital. Something happened (no idea what) and they couldn't do it so they went back to being analog. Hopefully they get it right the next time 'cause we'd all like a few more free channels. :)

Well, gee, thanks for the articulate and thoughtful insight. I based my opinion on the Silicon Dust Forum help gurus letting me know about the workarounds and settings in their software to deal with this very issue.

At least tell us why you think I am wrong.

Please accept my sincere apology for not getting back to you sooner.

Digital cable systems perform system maintenance on a regular basis that can involve moving the location of QAM channels. Remember their systems deliver digital phone and Internet in addition to video service.

Unfortunately the garden variety CSR is not aware of this and wouldn't understand anyway, since there are so few subscribers using QAM. It may seem like a stretch, but as already noted there is no conspiracy, just too few clear QAM customers for them to care.

ch.7 is a difficult station to receive here in sharonville (n. cincinnati) since ch.7 got their new digital antenna. I get 83% signal at my house while my parents house 3 blocks away the signal is constantly breaking up. (same outside antenna setup on both- Antennacraft u4000.) Every other dayton station comes in perfectly. Any suggestions to help my parents ch.7 reception?

ch.7 is a difficult station to receive here in sharonville (n. cincinnati) since ch.7 got their new digital antenna. I get 83% signal at my house while my parents house 3 blocks away the signal is constantly breaking up. (same outside antenna setup on both- Antennacraft u4000.) Every other dayton station comes in perfectly. Any suggestions to help my parents ch.7 reception?
Are you using an amp? If there is more than one TV hooked up to that antenna, do all of the exhibit the same behavior - all Dayton channels come in fine except WHIO?

WHIO should be no problem to receive there... I get it perfectly here in Hyde Park...

Hi, All,

For the last several weeks the clock time on my DTVPal DVR has been consistently 5-7 minutes behind the correct time. This causes the first several minutes of recorded programs to be missed.

I know there have been problems reported in the past in various US regional markets (including the WHIO area ?), but I have never experienced the problem myself until recently.

I can get the DTVPal clock temporarily reset to the correct time by doing a reboot, but by the next morning the clock has drifted and settled back to 5-7 minutes slow.

I believe the problem lies with the time signal sent out by the ROVI/TVGoS encoder at WHIO, but I don't know for sure.

Anyway, I am just wondering if anyone else is presently noticing the time problem, and I would welcome any advice or suggestions.

Thanks!

Ken

tzdvl,

I see you also posted in DTVPal DVR thread, Lots of recent info there on the issue, and FWIW, If you haven't already done so you might want to search that thread for "WHIO" (and/or look for my posts on that thread from a few months ago) and you'll find some stuff (from myself and others) specific to WHIO and that issue ...

Hi, All,

For the last several weeks the clock time on my DTVPal DVR has been consistently 5-7 minutes behind the correct time. This causes the first several minutes of recorded programs to be missed......I am just wondering if anyone else is presently noticing the time problem, and I would welcome any advice or suggestions.

Thanks!

Ken

Hey Ken,

I was having a bad problem with it several months ago. I reset everything and started using a Cincinnati zip code. Since then, the clock problem hasn't been an issue, so yes, it's a problem with WHIO. Of course, I now get my guide data and record from Cincinnati channels. I would prefer Dayton, but I see there's still an ongoing problem.

Paul

Thanks, Jeff,

Before I posted on the DTVPal DVR thread I had spent some time reading through that thread, Including many of your posts on the subject (most recently in October, 2011). That is where I found the "fix" that temporarily corrects the DVR time to allow accurate (enough) recording through the prime time period.


As I wrote previously, the clock time on my DTVPal has been 5-7 minutes behind for about the past three weeks, BUT I had never noticed the problem myself before recently, including during the times the problem was being discussed on the DTVPal thread. I was mainly concerned that there was something amiss with my own DVR, rather than a recurrence of the WHIO ROVI/TVGoS issue.

Now, at least I'm sure the problem is "not in my set" (and according to WillN937's reply on the DTVPal forum WHIO is "aware of the problem").


As for the second request in my DTVPal DVR post... I have learned a lot by reading through the posts about the time error problem, but, as you know much of the information being discussed is very technical. I am still pretty confused about exactly what is happening that causes the DVR clock to lag, and why a reboot at 5:30PM or 6:55PM causes the clock to correct (as opposed to a reboot at some other time).

And why does the clock then remain OK through the prime time period (at least through 11:30 as far as I can tell), but then return to 4-7 minutes behind by 7AM the next morning?

There is an awful lot of good info about the problem on these forums, but it's pretty frustrating that much of it is scattered through about 13,900 posts in the DTVPal thread. I definitely appreciate the advice and explanations given by you and the other knowledgeable folks, but I am still confused.

I sure would welcome a nice simple summary of what is known about the clock delay problem. Would it be possible for you to summarize the facts, causes and solutions for the problem into one concise and (relatively) non-technical post?

Thanks!

Ken

I am still pretty confused about exactly what is happening that causes the DVR clock to lag, and why a reboot at 5:30PM or 6:55PM causes the clock to correct (as opposed to a reboot at some other time).

And why does the clock then remain OK through the prime time period (at least through 11:30 as far as I can tell), but then return to 4-7 minutes behind by 7AM the next morning?


Partly Because the TVGOS clock data being sent from WHIO is actually correct(within a few seconds, anyway) Between the hours of about 6:30PM (EDT) to 12 AM (Midnight) everynight -- It's interesting to note that during those times, there are no downloads(of updated listings info/etc) occuring of TVGOS data from Rovi to the Rovi TVGOS encoder at the stations ... That changes around Midnight, and a number of downloads occur between Midnight, and 6:30pm the next day --- at various periods during that time(during the download periods), the actual TVGOS clock data being sent by WHIO's TVGOS(rovi) encoder lags by as much as 7 Minutes vs correct time ..... Now, It's only "off" by as much as 7minutes for a short time during some of the downloads ....

As for "how far off" the time(using TVGOS clock) on the DTVPal DVR will be at any given time is hard to ascertain, because its obvious DTVPal DVR doesn't "continuously" update the time data from the TVGOS data being sent by WHIO, if it did, it would change from being only a few seconds off to as much as 7 minutes off during periods of each download from Rovi, and then always be correct between about 6:30PM and midnight ...

But, as you've noticed if you do a reset at the times when the TVGOS clock data sent by WHIO is (more or less) Correct -- between about 6:30PM and Midnight --- The DTVPal DVR clock Will be correct during those times --- Until "sometime" after midnight when it updates the time data, at which point that at first, it may only show a time of a few minutes off, but by the next morning(or sometime in the wee hours), it may show 4 minutes off, or 7 minutes off, or whatever, and then, if you DON'T do a reset of DTVPal DVR at around 6:30pm, oddly enough DTVPal DVR will Still likely show time as much as 7 Minutes behind(even though, after around 6:30pm~Midnight) the actual TVGOS time data sent by WHIO is correct ...

In other words, apparently, DTVPalDVR does NOT update TVGOS time data during the periods Downloads from Rovi aren't occuring, unless you reset the DTVPal DVR during those times, and only until the next download(when at some point the time data will lag by as much as 7 minutes or so)....


Now, as for exactly why this is or may be occuring is difficult to speculate on, given TVGOS stuff is proprietary (and AFAIK info on it is not published or available) ...

As for some of the discussions of bandwith(regarding the digital stations bandwidth) and info provided on the DTVPal DVR thread -- In WHIO's case, keep in mind that WHIO's Null packet stream is constant at about 1.25Mb/s, which of course seems to be WAY more overhead than TVGOS streams would ever need(although of course I have no idea how much of that "extra" bandwidth not being used by anything can actually be utilized by the Rovi encoder, if needed) ... for example, I've never seen them even use as much bandwidth as say, about 100Kb/s .... WHIO's Video/Audio streams are also (more or less) Constant ....

The only thing I really "know" about it is that this problem started occuring when WHIO added Mobile DTV Stream .....



I sure would welcome a nice simple summary of what is known about the clock delay problem. Would it be possible for you to summarize the facts, causes and solutions for the problem into one concise and (relatively) non-technical post?


It is pretty confusing, I hope the above is of some help, and is not too technical --- If I can, I'll try to explain further if I can, so feel free to ask more questions if you like ...

Thanks again, Jeff.

Nice explanation - just what I wanted to know.

I've been following the recent discussion on the subject on the DTVPal DVR forum. It is really interesting to watch you, P Smith, keyboard21 et al "zero in" on the technical causes of the timing errors!

Ken

Hi, All,

For the last several weeks the clock time on my DTVPal DVR has been consistently 5-7 minutes behind the correct time. This causes the first several minutes of recorded programs to be missed.

I know there have been problems reported in the past in various US regional markets (including the WHIO area ?), but I have never experienced the problem myself until recently.

I can get the DTVPal clock temporarily reset to the correct time by doing a reboot, but by the next morning the clock has drifted and settled back to 5-7 minutes slow.

I believe the problem lies with the time signal sent out by the ROVI/TVGoS encoder at WHIO, but I don't know for sure.

Anyway, I am just wondering if anyone else is presently noticing the time problem, and I would welcome any advice or suggestions.

Thanks!

Ken

Count my Sony DHG-HDD250 in on this one. This issue has been driving me nuts for the past month. I gave in and edited all my scheduled recordings to be off a few minutes but as you've stated, it varies day to day.

Purely out of curiosity, why don't the stations have an accurate time method ? Someone tell me if this is related or not, but I have an older DirecTV receiver that I use for OTA on occasion. When in the program guide and navigating from channel to channel, the TIME displayed in the guide (not in the guide or grid itself, but in the upper-right corner, if I recall correctly) will change. I presume it gets the "local" time from the PSIP data of the station I'm tuned to at that moment. I can vary +/- 5 minutes among stations.

Someone tell me if this is related or not


It's not related to WHIO's TVGOS time issue being discussed, that's time data only present in WHIO TVGOS datastreams, only devices which utilize the TVGOS data are effected (such as the OTA DVR's previously mentioned) ...


but I have an older DirecTV receiver that I use for OTA on occasion. When in the program guide and navigating from channel to channel, the TIME displayed in the guide (not in the guide or grid itself, but in the upper-right corner, if I recall correctly) will change. I presume it gets the "local" time from the PSIP data of the station I'm tuned to at that moment. I can vary +/- 5 minutes among stations.

Most OTA capable devices use the PSIP data (Including DTC-100 which is not being used with DirecTV if that's what you're using) .....

FCC requires time data transmited in stations PSIP STT ("PSIP clock" lets say) to be within 1 second of GPS time ..... at ALL times ...

In Dayton Market currently (as in right now), WDTN, WPTD, WKEF PSIP clock data are within a second or so of being accurate (checked with WWV+Tsreader) ....

However(again right now), WKOI is off by about 2 Minutes(fast), WHIO is about 90 seconds Slow, WRGT is a little over 2 Minutes slow, WBDT is a little less than 3 Minutes slow ....


why don't the stations have an accurate time method ?


Speaking of the PSIP data, Some obviously do, as for why many don't, various reasons, I'd guess ;)

If a lot of people called them about it, I'd guess they'd probably find a way ....

Regardless want the FCC wants no station will have the correct time. This is due to the data transmission processing time thru each encoder and and even your receiver. The processing times through every encoder is different. The time stamp SST was in sync when it left the stations. There are different delays for every station. Of course this is no excuse if the stations clock is ahead of the correct time.

^ Issues somewhat along the lines of what you mention involving PSIP STT Time data to an extent which might be difficult to correct by the local stations could, I'd think, potentially account for issues involving a few seconds, not a few minutes ....

Although, such errors probably wouldn't specifically involve the PSIP generator .... What might happen delay wise during Mux'ing (Although, as I understand it, that is actually probably when/where the STT time data is generated in most if not all circumstances...) + any further processing of the TS before transmission is another matter(particularly perhaps if the PSIP STT data or TS isn't generated at local studio or transmitter site), and any delay during 8VSB demod and de-muxing the TS on the receiver end should be minimal in regards to the STT data ... even if it were to be as much as the time/delay involved with the audio/Video decoding, the latter would only be no more than about a second .....

There is an interesting recent discussion (from another area)of some interest here :

http://www.broadcastengineering.info/viewtopic.php?t=3464&p=22588

Anyway, 11 out of 16 DTV Stations In Cincinnati/N KY/Dayton area show correct time in STT (as received and transport stream analyzed by TSreader /minutes seconds compared with WWV audio) within 1 second, 1 station is within 3 seconds ....

Update: The "11 out of 16" above was based on a check I did about a week or so ago, I checked again around 12 PM (EDT) 4/12 and the situation has changed a bit regarding a few stations ....

FCC Rule on this matter is taken from ATSC's PSIP Standard, it is not unreasonable ... That being said, certianly there are likely understandable circumstances when this particular rule can't easily be met ...

Update: ATSC PSIP Standard (a65 rev. 2009) documents are available here :

http://www.atsc.org/cms/index.php/standards/published-standards/53-atsc-a65-standard

Description of STT System_time field (and the 1 second "rule") can be found on page 26, and is quoted below(portions of perhaps most interest in bold) :


system_time — A 32-bit unsigned integer quantity representing the current system time as the
number of GPS seconds since 00:00:00 UTC, 6 January 1980. The count of GPS seconds and
leap second count shall be accurate and correct to within plus or minus one second, for a direct
main broadcast signal RF receiving device, as timed at the arrival in the decoder of the
Transport Stream packet carrying the last byte of the CRC. The STT seconds count should be
set to the next second and sent approximately 2T milliseconds before the seconds count is due
to increment, where T represents the average number of milliseconds between TS packets
identified with the SI base_PID (0x1FFB). If one or more translators and/or repeaters are in the
RF delivery path that introduce processing delays that impact the overall STT timing accuracy,
the STT timing should be adjusted in the translated/repeated signal.

Anyone else not receiving some HD channels on TWC in the Dayton area?