Andrew,

Yes, it's a local station issue. At times, the audio sync is very bad. WKRC doesn't have the problem. Good luck getting a response from anyone at WHIO. In the past, they haven't been too receptive to any comments or complaints about their digital broadcasts.

Paul

Its really crazy that a local station considers the digital signal not worth getting the audio/video right. They might as well not even broadcast because it is unwatchable.

Reast,

Welcome to our world!

Maybe if I get time, I'll call them tomorrow and inform them that I simply have to turn my antenna to pull from Cincy or Columbus.....

Originally posted by Paul210
Reast,
Welcome to our world!

Ha! ... Yep ...

From what I can tell here anyway, WBDT-DT PSIP currently seems to be hosed in some shape or fashion(at least on one of my receivers), and WHIO-DT is currently off air ... This, and more recent observations concerning local DTV stations follow in more detail ...

Update: Oh, that's too funny -- I mean the very SECOND after I submitted this post around 4:33pm, WHIO-DT simultanously came back on air ....

Notice that :

WHIO-DT : I don't watch them a lot, as I'll generally watch WKRC-DT instead (monitoring, often with audio turned off is a different story), but I haven't noticed the A/V sync issue when I have. I have noticed the Audio levels have been way high though since they added DD 5.1, even the "sound logic" feature on one of my decoders here can't take care of it. Anyway, I have to wonder if the A/V sync issue is a bit of a growing pain involving their "new" DD 5.1 capability in some way ...

WBDT-DT : with DTC-100 with PSIP channel remapping turned off (off air guides=off) I'm getting them just fine on 18-2. With Zenith HDV420, (can't turn PSIP channel remapping off on it), It won't decode anything from them no matter what I do -- tune to 26-1(which has allways worked before), tune to 18, 18-1, 18-2/etc, tried "rescanning" for channels too no dice ... Plenty of "quality" signal showing up on the meter, but again, nothing in the way of A/V or even a PSIP lock ... So, it appears their PSIP is currently Hosed in some shape or fashion... I've never ran into this on the Zenith box before that I can recall, as from what I can tell, it seems to check for any "new" PSIP info and "update" itself accordingly everytime you tune to any given station. BTW, I did check it last week and noticed there was also No HD for "Smallville" from them. WSTR-DT Cincinnati was running a UK hoops game, so don't know if it was Net or local issue. Haven't had a chance to check out any other WB HD programming.

WRGT-DT : I know this has been like this for a while, but, just to bring it up ... Noticed they are sending improper Aspect Ratio on the SD subchannel(30-2) again. It's 4x3 "stretched" to 16x9, I'd would assume as 480i 16x9 ATSC format ...

Also noticed recently that WDTN-DT+WHIO-DT must've both changed their PSIP a bit sometime in the past month or so. Didn't even notice it on the Zenith Box, 2-1/2-2, and 7-1/7-2 have remained exactly the same as they've "allways" been. However, on DTC-100 (again, Channel remapping turned off), Whereas it used to be 50-2(HD), 50-3(SD - not strecthed, it's 4x3 480i), it's now 50-3 (SD - not stretched - 4x3 480i), and 50-4 (HD). Oh, BTW, I also noticed that EIA-708 captions are working from WDTN-DT 2-1 on Zenith HDV420. The 3rd station(out of 15 in the area I receive) for which this is the case. The other two are WLWT-DT Cincy, and WCVN-DT in N KY.

For WXIX-DT Cincinnati viewers, their PSIP also appears to be "hosed" for the last week and a half or so. Although I'm getting them fine on both receivers here on 29-3(was allways 29-2 before on DTC100 with Remapping turned off), but, it's not remapping to 19-1 as is usually the case for anyone, and one fellow on Cincy thread reported he can't get them no matter what with his samsung SIRT-150 receiver.

So, it appears stations are "gearing up" to try to meet FCC's PSIP requirements, which go into effect on 2/1/05 ... I'll have to turn on the PSIP stuff on the DTC-100, as it "works" with the TSID PSIP info for the analog stations now -- last I checked, last summer, WCVN-DT(and all the KETs) were the only ones that were "working" in that regard in this area. So anyway, what they are doing do not look all that "promising" given the "timing" involved here ... No sign of WKEF-DT/WRGT-DT changing anything yet though ....

On a more positive note, I have noticed (when I've checked it anyway), WKEF-DT has been doing a great job providing ABC HD since all that they missed over new years weekend ...

Another note on WKEF-DT, I think I only observed one dropout the entire evening last night. I wonder if they may finally have a handle on whatever's been causing it?

WHIO-DT's PQ is much better than it used to be, compression-wise. However, the blue lines are still there--I thought they were gone for awhile. Audio levels are definitely too high, but the DD 5.1 is nice with the exception of the sync issue. I have noticed the sync is not as bad as it was. It must have been off more than half a second last week, which was unbearable.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul210
Another note on WKEF-DT, I think I only observed one dropout the entire evening last night. I wonder if they may finally have a handle on whatever's been causing it?
Paul

I hope so given the current situation with WCPO, ABC HD Cincy .... I did notice two of the video freezes(with audio continuing just fine) from WKEF-DT during HD Alias last week .... One of them was in a really annoying spot when Sydney was in that tunnel with the Samarai Sword ... I didn't get to watch much of the Wild Card HD games on ABC last weekend, but I didn't see any problems from WKEF during what I did see ...

I got video freezes several times during the wild card games, generally at inopportune moments (like replays).

the video freezes are running wild on wkef, at least 2 every hour

paul, whio doesn't have the blue lines on the cable feed, at least it appears that way(could just be toned down). I haven't noticed it during CSI

It could be TWC filtering it themselves if WHIO didn't care to correct the issue.

I counted 6 Video freezes on WKEF-DT between 9:03pm and 10:02 pm Tonight. A couple of them were especially "long" compared to the others. As allways, audio continued just fine.

One was during a commercial, a national add, which I assume was coming through from the ABC HD feed, (upconverted to 720p at network level for the SD commercials), as I don't think I've ever seen one of the freezes from SD upconverted at WKEF-DT ...

Oh, noticed WHIO-DT is currently off air again ...

Sent WBDT-DT a note about my current apparent PSIP problem with them on the Zenith receiver, I did notice they had Smallville HD this week when I checked it via the RCA receiver(as did WSTR) ...

Jeff,

Same response from my Zenith receiver on WBDT-DT. It sees signal there but nothing else. I don't have the Sammy hooked up right now.

Looks like I jinxed everyone--no WHIO-DT, dropouts on WKEF. Good thing for Cincy backups.

Paul

I am not getting any signal from WHIOTV 7-1 and 7-2 right now. Bout ready to call them and complain, anyone else?

No WHIO-DT for me either. Wife said it was off for soap operas yesterday (wed), too. I'll have to call, as well.

WHIO-DT is currently back on the air at 1:23pm with HD Y&R. A/V sync is off though.

Last I checked about an hour ago, they were off air.

Originally posted by Paul210
Same response from my Zenith receiver on WBDT-DT. It sees signal there but nothing else. I don't have the Sammy hooked up right now.


I just called them (384-9226) and reported the problem to their CE's Voice mail -- I was put on hold at first for a few minutes while they checked to see if anyone in engineering was "available". So, I was in a hurry+left out some important "details", so I also emailed their CE seperately(I have his email address here from a previous discussion - PM me if you need it to report the issue/etc) about the issue with the details.

I'd sent the email last night to their "questions" address on their website, and I'm not sure if anyone there is reading those anymore or not(or what is getting blocked by their spam filters), having not gotten a response from that address for a long time (although it USED to work)...

So, anyone else who is also getting this issue might want to contact them+tell them about it as well ...

If they don't get it fixed soon, of course there's allways the snail mail route -- This is what it says on their website :

"Questions regarding reception of Dayton's WB can be directed to (937) 384-9226 or by writing to ENGINEERING c/o Dayton's WB, 2589 Corporate Place, Miamisburg, OH 45342."

Anyone have the contact info for the engineer at WDTN. They missed Will and Grace again last night, I'm wondering if they just don't realize that it's in HD now. Calling the station hasn't seemed to work

browerjs,

I don't feel comfortable posting private contact info, but I did relay your report to WDTN-DT's CE (Chief Engineer), Jim Atkinson, assuming he is still at WDTN. I haven't contacted them since they missed some of the Nascar Widescreen last fall. If I remember it, I'll have to check next week, and also see if WLWT-DT has it as well.

I didn't realize it was HD now either, but sure enough that's what it says on NBC's Website schedule. Of course, it has said that before on occasion, and the problem turned out to be at the network level instead. But, if there are other affiliates sending it in HD via east coast feed, it should be HD here too.

Unless something has changed recently -- The switching for WDTN-DT (HD/etc), as well as several other LIN owned stations is handled from a LIN facility at WISH TV in Indianapolis. Although in the past they've forwarded the info to the control room in Indy when I've called WDTN, it sometimes has taken a while, and I suppose they're probably not used to getting a lot of calls about missing HD, as<jinx alert> they are usually very good about providing NBC HD programming.

It's definately been coming across HD in the east, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=480552. This is the 3rd episode that's been in HD, first was probably 5-6 weeks ago and then there were no new episodes till last week, which was also missed. I'm not sure if the first HD episode came through HD on WDTN as I was timeshifting it on TWC SD.

I had e-mail contact with Jim Atkinson back in the beginning of October '04. Probably around the same timeframe as your contact with him.....

He's probably still there, or at least with LIN. The email didn't bounce back so far anyway. A couple of times that I've contacted him over the past few years it's taken a while for him to respond, as, at the time he was either at trade shows or visiting other stations in other parts of country/etc. And of course with the spam situation these days, I know it's easy to miss a "real email", and just get rid of all the "junk" ...

Another contact which might also be useful might be AVSforum member(and WISH-TV indy/LIN engineer) Tom Weber. I've talked to him before via AVS PM. He sometimes posts on Indy thread. I can't recall if his AVS handle is "Tom Weber" or tomweber"/etc, but you should be able to find it.

-----------------

Update: Oh, just noticed WHIO-DT is back down again currently. (5pm Fri)

Nothing back from WBDT so far. Zenith receiver still won't decode it's PSIP. First time I can recall them having any sort of problem like this. Good thing I can get WSTR-DT if I want to watch WB HD via my Zenith receiver I suppose ...

I suppose WBDT's PSIP being messed up explains why I can't find them on my TWC QAM feeds.

Is WHIO-DT available on TWC right now? I wasn't sure if they were using an off-air pickup or a direct fiber feed. Not that I'd miss them, as I pick up WKRC or WBNS instead. :p

WHIO-DT is on air at 00:00, don't know when they came back up. Only reason I looked is because you asked ;) ... I was sitting here, trying to come up with some sort of reasonable response to a post on Cincy thread asking WHEN WXIX's PSIP might get fixed, and the auto-notifaction came up for your post ...

Just a wild guess, but I'd guess it's probably fiber from WHIO to TWC ...

Tonight, for the football game on WHIOTV the announcer audio is toned way down when decoding DD. I had to turn my center speaker way way up to get it loud enough to hear, without the rear surround being too overpowering.

couple things..just noticed the board came up..i wasn't able to access it till now

first half, all of a sudden whio just popped to HD..called the news tip line and i was transferred to the control room..i tell the guy "i'm not getting the game in HD"..he says "yeah uh..looks like there was a problem, i'll switch it back"..

and then he switches it back in like 2 seconds..crazy..and now dd 5.1 is off and dd 2.0 is coming through

then i emailed them and i just flipped over now for the 4th quarter and it is dd 5.1

just wish i could get WKRC -_-

Yea, i think the sound definately had to do with them not passing DD5.1 through... it was really annoying...

I noticed that WKEF thus far has failed to flip the switch for HD on the figure skating. I am not going to watch it but it is annoying that they can't seem to get these things right. Thankfully Fox 45 has a splicer system so the Sinclair clowns can't screw it up.

I am able to get WBDT (using a Samsung T165 box) but it is a bit slow....tune it and it takes it a while to figure out what is going on. It thinks it's on 18-1 though.

I note that their former QAM slot (109.5) on Time Warner is still dead. For the TWC folks, are you actually getting this channel? If they've moved it, I haven't figured out where it's gone.

The WB (HD) no longer displays a picture on Time Warner (in DIAG mode) anymore. It's been maybe two weeks or probably more when it went away. It still tunes to the channels, displays their call letters, and what's playing, but you can't see it. :) Just like WDTN does also.

I sent WHIO an email regarding the audio/video sync issue that's been happening the past couple of weeks. It was a little annoying that the guests I had over yesterday have never watched a game in HD, and the first thing they said was how horrible it was to watch the announcer's mouth moving a second off from the audio.

Paul

I have yet to recieve the WB in HD on my new TWC provided Scientfic Atlanta HD cable box on the north side of Dayton (Harrison Twp). The channels not listed in the directory or guide yet either.

We watch the WB more than anything else, and I am still having to go to the antenna to tune it in for HD.

lameris:

1) It's no longer available.
2) You had to be in the SA8000HD's diagnostic mode in order to see it and then you had to tune directly to it, as in enter "726 Select" with the remote. It did not show up in the guide. Can you "see" the blank channel with other HD set-tops ?? *I* can't answer that.

WBDT-DT's PSIP issue with some receivers appears to be fixed as of 3:15pm 1/18. Getting them remapped to 26.1 as usual now on Zenith HDV420.

I wonder if the TW folks are seeing them again now as well?

I got a repsponse to the email I sent WHIO regarding the audio/video sync issue.

They were aware of the problem and said many people noticed it. After studying drawings and talking with manufacturers, they came to the conclusion there was a software parameter that was set incorrectly. Hopefully, the issue is resolved.

I am amazed they responded, as they never have to any of my previous emails. Maybe they realize there are more than two or three of us watching.

We'll see what happens tonight!

Paul

I noticed Still Standing was pretty much in-sync last night, possibly just a little off, but not much (i think there is a mind game thing where you think it's off a little sometimes, when it's not really off, because you're looking for it)... I have Raymond and Two and a Half Men DVR'd so I'll take a look at those tonight...

WHIO is waaaay out of sync again tonight. What email address did you use, Paul? Maybe some more of us should contact them.

7online@whiotv.com

Amazingly enough, I received the same email from WHIO.

Does anyone in the WOH Timewarner area receive CBS from Cincy? With the amount of problems WHIO continues to have on HD, could this become an option?

Originally posted by Paul210
I am amazed they responded, as they never have to any of my previous emails. Maybe they realize there are more than two or three of us watching.


That is a good sign, IMO. Even if it takes a while for them to get it fixed, it's something .... Better than what we used to get from them ... Baby steps ...

Does anyone in the WOH Timewarner area receive CBS from Cincy? With the amount of problems WHIO continues to have on HD, could this become an option?

Not on cable QAM...TWC carries WKRC on the analog tier at least in the immediate Dayton area but I'm not sure about points north....however the only Cincinnati digital channel I get on Time Warner QAM is WCET-DT.

I pick up two extra CBS affiliates, WKRC DT Cincinnati and WBNS DT Columbus, using antennas. I generally watch them instead of WHIO anyway because WHIO's HD picture stinks due to bit-starvation caused by multicasting a useless SD subchannel. WBNS gets preference since they have 5.1 capability.

Originally posted by Sneedes
Does anyone in the WOH Timewarner area receive CBS from Cincy? With the amount of problems WHIO continues to have on HD, could this become an option? I'd venture to say that "no", no one with TW-Western Ohio receives the Cincy CBS station via cable. I'd guess that WHIO won't allow it (or something to do with "territory").

I don't see big problems with WHIO myself. We watch the CSIs, Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens, and maybe a few others with no real complaints. You would think they'll get better over time too.

WHIO has been getting better, but it is painfully slow. The SD sub-channel serves no purpose, they still have those blue lines (depends on your display whether you can actually see them), and the audio sync has been bad. On the good side, they must have increased the bit-rate for the HD channel (they still need to drop the useless sub), and it's nice to hear DD 5.1. If WKRC would add DD 5.1, I'd watch them instead and quit bitching.

WHIO is still as bad as it was before

It won't look too bad for scripted programming but you can still see motion blurring in fast scene changes or during camera pans(see csi intro)

However, it is god awful for live events...the football games are unwatchable...any hint of motion and immediately there is blurring and artifacting

I'd thought it had improved for a time as well, including during NFL HD football - Even the spinning NFL logo for a while was pretty clear -- There were MPEGII compression artifacts, no doubt - and still WKRC-DT looked better -- but, it wasn't as noticable, and you didn't get that "screen door" effect ... I thought they might have made some adjustments to their encoder, or even gotten a new one ...

But, I happened to check out WHIO-DT during the Colts/Pats game last weekend. At that time, It was as bad as it ever was, night and day compared to WRKC-DT ... I suspect I'd see problems even during fast action from "CSI", as has been the case before that I've noticed.

edit/update: This was before Rakesh came here, and might have been before 1450KHZ was "set up" for HD ... But, Of course, Paul and others will remember - back when WKRC-DT was datacasting their "webhopper" service at 4mb/s(That was either static, or minimum -- I'm not sure if add'l "when available" oppurtunistic bandwidth was utilized) -- You couldn't really tell any difference between WKRC-DT and WHIO-DT. They were both "bad" with the "screen door effect", and I suspect they were(probably still are) using nearly the same HD encoder -- I suspect it's a Harris Flexicoder -- The earlier models at least which use 6 different boards, each one handles a certian section of the frame. If you didn't know any better, you might think that's just the way it "is", or that it was a Network issue. But, luckily, I get WBNS-DT occasionally as well, and, back then, the difference between the WBNS-DT(even with a signal just at the threshold for reception, and barely so) and WHIO/WKRC was night and day ...

I think we should all try emailing WHIO regarding the multicast problem...of course there are quite a few people receiving KRC and don't really care. Just throw in a line saying "for this very reason, we're all watching WKRC"

We should let them know that the quality sucks..maybe send screenshots like you guys did with the WCPO problem.

Originally posted by hall
I'd venture to say that "no", no one with TW-Western Ohio receives the Cincy CBS station via cable. I'd guess that WHIO won't allow it (or something to do with "territory").

WKRC (Cincy CBS) is available as analog Channel 12 on Time Warner in the Dayton area. It makes a nice backup for all those times WHIO drops CBS prime for their low-rent telecasts of UD basketball.

edit/update: This was before Rakesh came here, and might have been before 1450KHZ was "set up" for HD ... But, Of course, Paul and others will remember - back when WKRC-DT was datacasting their "webhopper" service at 4mb/s(That was either static, or minimum -- I'm not sure if add'l "when available" oppurtunistic bandwidth was utilized)

I remember it well, and their picture for football looked just as bad as WHIO. That's the reason I was hell-bent on finding ways to pick up WBNS. Their picture is fantastic now that Webhopper is gone.

Originally posted by 1450kHz
WKRC (Cincy CBS) is available as analog Channel 12 on Time Warner in the Dayton area. Must be the "southern" areas only 'cause "City of Dayton" has 'Dayton Spiritual Channel' on channel 12 for me.

The area that TW calls "South of Dayton" does have WKRC on 12 as you say though.

North of Dayton in the Sidney and surrounding area WKRC is not available. WBNS CBS out of Columbus is analog channel 10, but 99% of the time it's a blue screen telling you to tune to WHIO (non-compete crap I suppose).

Originally posted by Nitewatchman

But, I happened to check out WHIO-DT during the Colts/Pats game last weekend. At that time, It was as bad as it ever was, night and day compared to WRKC-DT ... I suspect I'd see problems even during fast action from "CSI", as has been the case before that I've noticed.


I think it is something to do with their stadium up there. Every game I've seen from NE on CBS HD has looked absolutely horrible.

To me WHIO-TD HD is great for picture on my 42" Plasma, its the audio on HD broadcasts in DD that tick me off. Never once has the audio been syncd up.

I am going to be adding another UHF rooftop antenna and either pull from Columbus or Cincy. Columbus stations are about 3 miles further then Cincy.

With my rooftop antenna now currently pointing towards Dayton (18 miles) I get all of Dayton in the mid 90s, WLWT (cincy) at 78, and the rest of Cincy stations at 60. I figure with an antenna directed at Cincy and possibly a pre-amp, I should be golden there.

Havent decided if Columbus stations are better though.

I have read conflicting information about HD channes on UHF having to change to VHF in 2006, whats the current word?

ABC HD Inauguration coverage looks good on WKEF-DT Today. I can't put all my "attention" on it, but I haven't noticed any video freezes. First time I can think of ABC has sent HD during what are probably "regular business hours" for the station ..

Originally posted by mlbUC
I think it is something to do with their stadium up there. Every game I've seen from NE on CBS HD has looked absolutely horrible.

All the CBS HD games from Foxborough this year certianly have looked excellent here from WKRC-DT on my 38" 16x9 Direct View HD display ...The rain, the snow, the fog ... What more could you ask for? Yeah, that stuff might make certian things seem "less defined", though ... WHIO-HD -- Not so good when much of anything moves around too much ... Especially during "close ups" of the players moving around a lot on field ...

Originally posted by tiggermanh
I have read conflicting information about HD channes on UHF having to change to VHF in 2006, whats the current word?


Well, it's a little complicated, that's probably why you're seeing "conflicting" info. Lets see if I can make this somewhat understandable ...

#1). No DTV station is going to move from where they are now until analog shut off.

#2). It is EXTREMELY unlikely that analog shut off is going to occur in 2006. 2009~2010 or so is probably much more like it.

#3). Channels 2-51 (except 37 which is used for radio astronomy) Will be used for DTV after analog shut off. Channels 52-69 are being auctioned, or refarmed for other uses. Stations that are currently on 52-69 will have to move off at some point ... Low power stations might stay a bit longer on 52-69 longer than high power stations, especially if none of auction winners aren't using their "channel" in a given area ....

#3). Currently, FCC+stations are in the process of working out WHERE stations will end up(sending their actual RF signal - the actual channel #, not the virtual - remapped Channel # - The remapped Channel number - by law now(which I guess WRGT/WKEF still needs to figure out) -- Is, and will be in the future, the current analog channel #) after analog shut off.Stations will have some sort of "choice", but for the most part, after analog shut off, in most cases, the digital stations will be either on their CURRENT DTV channel assignment, OR their CURRENT Analog channel assignment.

It's hard to say in any given circumstance who will end up where in this area -- but, generally speaking -- for the MOST part stations will probably want to stay as low on the dial as possible for various reasons - An Exception to this is lo-VHF(54-87MHZ - ch 2-6). I, or others I know have asked the stations in the area with current Lo-VHF analog assignments their plans -- And -- for all those within about 100 miles or so (WDTN 2, WLWT 5, WSYX 6, WRTV 6, WAVE 3, WCMH 4) -- Even though this was a while back, and they indicated nothing was set in stone -- They All had planned to stay on their current, Digital UHF assignment rather than the analog on lo-VHF because of the impulse noise+Other inteference issues that are often much more of an issue, reception wise for fewers than is the case with higher frequencies.

I would expect however, that we will probably see as many -- More perhaps -- Hi-VHF(ch 7-13 - 174-216MHZ) digital stations in the area after analog shut off than is the case presently - although I suppose it depends on the situation. If it were to be the case that only ONE station in a given market would "end up" on VHF(say WHIO 7), then they might want to stay with their current UHF allocation, or try to get another one. BUT, generally speaking, since VHF provides better coverage with less power(and is "generally" easier to receive - especially in terrain challenged locations and with indoor antennas) - You would think Vhf-Hi should be filled with stations in this area after analog shut off ...

We'll of course be keeping an eye on it, it shouldn't be all that long before the choices the stations make in the 1st round in the currently undergoing Channel election process for DTV stations after analog shut off will be known. There are going to be 3 rounds, and we won't know the "final" DTV channel assignments for after analog shut off until 2006 ....(which is of course just next year) ...

With stations currently seeming to want to avoid lo-VHF like the plague, I don't know what the future for 2-6 for DTV is -- But, I'd be very surprised that if in the long run, it doesn't end up getting used for DTV. I don't know what else they would use it for, really, and I can think of no better place for DTV stations who want to reach distant viewers in terrain challenged locations, or in distant, spread out communities. It's probably not so good for urban areas given the impulse noise/power line noise issues/etc, but rural viewers with outdoor antennas(like me) often don't have much problem with that sort of thing .... well, except for nearby lightning strikes, which still don't cause much problem for me where the current, nearby strong analog lo-VHF stations(WDTN 2/WLWT 5) are concerned, and I expect the situation there would have been actually BETTER for me with digital.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
All the CBS HD games from Foxborough this year certianly have looked excellent here from WKRC-DT on my 38" 16x9 Direct View HD display ...The rain, the snow, the fog ... What more could you ask for? Yeah, that stuff might make certian things seem "less defined", though ... WHIO-HD -- Not so good when much of anything moves around too much ... Especially during "close ups" of the players moving around a lot on field ...


Sorry, I misstated what I wanted to say. I meant that all the WHIO-HD games from Foxborough have looked terrible. I have seen 3 or 4 and noticed the artifacts all over in each of those games.

Turned on the PSIP "fuctions" on RCA DTC-100(integrated NTSC/ATSC receiver/ tuner - The D* HD sat receiver in it is not integrated with the OTA receiver) last night, to see what the local stations were currently up to, and to try to get an idea if we might potentially run into any more PSIP issues in the near future. This is what I found -- Overall, it seems that things are starting to Look up .... It is not surprising to me that WDTN seems to be the station that is the most "on top of things".

I'm not sure, but I *think* if the first non-remapped minor channel # shows up as X-3 (or higher)subchannel with the PSIP stuff(off air guides function) turned OFF on DTC-100, then I think that probably might indicate the station is probably "complaint" with portion of ATSC a/53 standard(which was a requirement as of 1/1/05), which requires their PID(packet identifier) values that relate to program stream to be at Hex30 address or higher. Again, I don't know this is the case for sure, as I don't know If the MPEG PMT number(which I'm pretty sure is what I'm getting) has to allways be at 3 or above in order for PID to be at 0x30 ... More detailed info on this(which I *think* seems to be saying it could be PID Hex 30 and PMT program # at below 3 on some systems, even though it doesn't come right out and SAY that) , and why these changes at the stations can affect receivers can be found here: http://www.atsc.org/pid_changeinfo.html

It is certianly the case that except for WCVN-DT(which has "started" at X-3 for years now), it's only been within the past couple weeks that the other stations in Cincy/Dayton that now have "X-3" for first stream have changed it from what was allways "x-1 or X-2" previously. In which case, the stations listed farther below with first subchannel at X-1 or X-2 next to "channel remapping/PSIP off" still might need to make some changes for this - if so lets hope they go smoothly.

The "full" A65 PSIP standard becomes a requirement for stations on 2/1/05. This includes requirements for stations to remap their major channel number, so it's the same as the analog channel #, to send proper time/date info, and to send EPG programming info out 12 hours. Obviously, unless it's something "wrong" with DTC-100, the stations listed below which aren't doing all those things yet are going to have to make some changes -- Again -- Hopefully, those changes will go smoothly. Who knows, but the way it looks, I'm thinking any of these changes are as likely to cause difficulties, or require "rescans" as would be the case with a change in their PID values, as described in the preceding paragraph. Links to dl The ATSC A65 PS document can be found here: http://www.atsc.org/psip_links.html

If I notice after a few months or so, they don't seem to be compliant with that stuff, I'll probably send them a note in case they don't "know" and in case it might help them out. But personally, I don't really care all that much as long as I can get good audio/video from all the stations ...

Here's what I got from the Dayton Digitals, I'll make a seperate post about the Cincinnati stations in Cincy thread :

WDTN-DT 50
Channel remapping on: 2-1(HD), 2-2(SD)
Proper time/date via PSIP: Yes
EPG programming info via PSIP : Yes
Service ID via PSIP(WDTN-HD/WDTN-SD) : Yes
Integrated in channel profiles with analog channel # 2 : Yes
Channel remapping/PSIP off : 50-3(SD), 50-4(HD)

WHIO-DT 41
Channel remapping on: 7.1(HD), 7.2(SD)
Proper time/date via PSIP: Yes
EPG programming info via PSIP : No
Service/subchannel ID via PSIP(WHIO-HD/WHIO-SD) : Yes
Integrated in channel profiles with analog channel # 7 : Yes
Channel remapping/PSIP off : 41-3 (HD), 41-4 (SD)

WPTD-DT 58
Channel remapping on: 16.2~16.6
Proper time/date via PSIP: Yes
EPG programming info via PSIP : No
Service/subchannel ID via PSIP(16HD/etc) : Yes
Integrated in channel profiles with analog channel # : Yes
Channel remapping/PSIP off : 58.2~58.6

WKEF-DT 51
Channel remapping on: 51.1, 51.2(no remap)
Proper time/date via PSIP: Can't tell
EPG programming info via PSIP : No
Service/subchannel ID via PSIP(WKEF-HD) : Yes
Integrated in channel profiles with analog channel # : No
Channel remapping/PSIP off : 51.1, 51.2

WBDT-DT 18
Channel remapping on: 26.1
Proper time/date via PSIP: Yes
EPG programming info via PSIP : No
Service/subchannel ID via PSIP : Yes
Integrated in channel profiles with analog channel # : Yes
Channel remapping/PSIP off : 18.3

WRGT-DT 30
Channel remapping on: 30.1, 30.2 (no remap)
Proper time/date via PSIP: Can't tell
EPG programming info via PSIP : No
Service/subchannel ID via PSIP : No
Integrated in channel profiles with analog channel # : No
Channel remapping/PSIP off : 30.1, 30.2

Wow glad I'm not on cable in Cincy :eek:

HDTV Super Bowl? Probably not, here (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050120/BIZ01/501200320)

Mad

Anyone getting DD5.1 from WKEF for tonight's (1/22) Alladin showing ?? I've got TW Cable and don't know if it could be TW to blame or the source....

Nope, only getting it in 2/0. Is it supposed to be in DD 5.1?

Jeff,

On my HD Tivo, it does not show FOX correctly, it still thinks its on 45 for program guide info, even though it comes in as unknown on 30-1, appears that the PSIP stuff not being detected by you might be part of the problem.

Shall I call and complain to them? Will they even know what they need to fix?

>
WRGT-DT 30
Channel remapping on: 30.1, 30.2 (no remap)
Proper time/date via PSIP: Can't tell
EPG programming info via PSIP : No
Service/subchannel ID via PSIP : No
Integrated in channel profiles with analog channel # : No
Channel remapping/PSIP off : 30.1, 30.2

WKEF-DT doesn't have the capability to pass through DD 5.1 from ABC currently , they send DD 2.0. With Prologic II decoding you can get "decent" matrixed 5 channel surround from it.

BTW. I haven't been "glued" to it, but I haven't seen any sign of any video freezes here tonight from them ... <jinx alert>

Tigermanh,

I would contact them and report the issue you are having. - You might also want to thank them for the fine job they've been doing as of late providing ABC HD from WKEF-DT. The same staff at WKEF/WRGT operate both statons. Well, more precisely, there are 4 stations they have to take care of, 2 analogs+2 digitals stations ....

Program guide info you're getting for 45-1 is coming from the D* EPG. It is just not "coordinating" on your receiver with what WRGT-DT is sending -actually what they aren't sending PSIP/channel remapping wise ...

BTW. I haven't been "glued" to it, but I haven't seen any sign of any video freezes here tonight from them ... <jinx alert>

It froze at least once or twice.

Nope, only getting it in 2/0. Is it supposed to be in DD 5.1?

It would be 5.1 if the station could pass it. I miss having ABC on WDTN for that reason.

Okay, I don't use my receiver too often with regular TV (of HD) so I didn't know if WKEF normally had other programs with DD5.1 audio or not. It was DD2.0, as already noted, and though my receiver didn't have the little graphic showing rear sound, I was getting audio from the rear speakers. Must have been the Prologic II working like Jeff says.

I purchased and set up my new TV (Sony KDF-42WE655) last night, and I'm really looking forward to my first football games in HD today. I can tune WHIO and WRGT in HD, but so far, all of their programming has been in SD. I'm wondering at what point I can expect the switch to HD to occur for the football games today. Will it be during the pre-show, or not until the game itself?

Phil

For Fox, it'll be the pregame. For CBS, it'll depend. The pregame show is SD, but is sent over the HD chain with blue "NFL Today" borders. Not all CBS stations bother to switch to the HD chain until kickoff. Understandable since, other than the borders, there isn't any HD content in CBS' pregame show.

That said, I don't remember if the pregame crews are on-site today. It really doesn't change anything. Both pregame shows are mostly produced at the network headend, not the mobile truck. FOX can do that in HD, CBS cannot.

There's very little daytime programming in HD... During the week, believe it or not, some soap operas are in HD. On the weekends, a few football and basketball games will be in HD. NASCAR is (often) in HD, but they're on winter break, aren't they ??

Go to TitanTV and sign up. It will build a customized TV schedule for you based on whether you have TWCable, OTA, or one of the satellite providers. Any programs that are in HD will have a symbol or "HD" note beside them.

I do see that WCPO has figure skating in HD this afternoon at 1:30. That's a Cincy station and depending on your antenna, you might be able to pick it up. As I scroll down further, it also shows WKEF with the same thing. No need to try and get Cincy unless WKEF forgets to flip the HD switch.

Thanks, guys. So far I'm pulling in WHIO off a small antenna, and then TNT HD, Discovery HD, and WRGT HD off of TWC. (Just the ones that TWC isn't scrambling for some reason.) I plan to make a decision on sticking with TWC or going to DirecTV soon, and then I'll get the full slate of HD programming.

Do you have an HD set-top box from TWC (you must, or a cablecard) ?? If so, you should get WHIO and WKEF (ch 707 and 722 respectively) also. TNT-HD and Discovery HD are "free" with the HD set-top as they're unscrambled (or is the term non-encrypted nowadays ??). Even people with *basic* TW cable service and an HD tuner card get those channels.

Follows are the stations that broadcast HD OTA in Dayton. They all broadcast from the same antenna farm, A couple miles south of 35, and on the "hill" between I-75+Rt 4 on the SouthWest side of Dayton. All broadcast from nice, high antenna heights - power levels vary :

WBDT-DT 18 (26.1 remap) - WB HD/DD 5.1 -- BTW, For some reason, TitanTV no longer indicates WB HD from them, but it's there ... - 35KW ERP(Their full power allocation from FCC) - Note : WB was having an issue with DD 5.1 at network level, and discontinued DD 5.1 until they can address the problem, I'm not sure if they've fixed it yet or not.

WRGT-DT 30 - Fox HD/DD 5.1 (Cops, BTW was sent Widescreen last night, "not quite" HD, but 480i 16x9 upconverted to 720p at Network level - Fox News Sunday is sent Widescreen on Sun mornings as well)... 15.3KW ERP STA(low power)currently according to FCC site.

WHIO-DT 41 - (7-x remap) CBS HD/DD5.1 - except when, say they show UD games like last night, then you need to watch The Cincinnati or Columbus stations for CBS HD programming. 1000KW ERP "full power" -- there is a serious "null" in their antenna pattern towards SW of their tower.

WDTN-DT 50 - (2-1 remap) - NBC HD/DD 5.1 - 125KW ERP STA(special temporary authority) presently.

WKEF-DT 51 - ABC HD - 95.5 KW STA currently. Their full power allocation isn't much more than that.

WPTD-DT 58 - (16-x remap) - PBS HD channel(HD+Widescreen SD upconverted to 1080i at network level) on 16.6 nightly 6pm-6am. Full power at 250KW ERP, currently.

Originally posted by hall
Do you have an HD set-top box from TWC (you must, or a cablecard) ?? If so, you should get WHIO and WKEF (ch 707 and 722 respectively) also. TNT-HD and Discovery HD are "free" with the HD set-top as they're unscrambled (or is the term non-encrypted nowadays ??). Even people with *basic* TW cable service and an HD tuner card get those channels.

No set-top box or cable card. My Sony has a built-in HD tuner, so I hooked up my (analog basic+) TWC cable and let it scan. It found the TNT and Discovery channels, as well as Fox 45 HD on 93.3. (It's coming in @ 1080i, though the programming has only been SD since last night.) I just tried 707 and 722 and couldn't get them. I really wasn't expecting to get anything HD out of the box, since I'm in the basement and I have a small antenna (for now). So getting WHIO OTA and the other 3 from TWC has been a bonus. My current setup is very temporary--I intend to take measures to get a good HD lineup ASAP.

I'm also getting several digital EWTN stations in the 100-something range. Super.

Disregard the channel numbers I gave as they're only applicable with an HD box from TW. You sound like you're getting channels numbered just like 1450khz does. He has an HD tuner card in his PC connected to his cable line. I think those are the "QAM" channels (???).

I think for the absolute best quality, use the OTA channels whenever possible, though an engineer from TWC told me that they (TW) do *not* alter the signals before they pass them to us.

Disregard the channel numbers I gave as they're only applicable with an HD box from TW. You sound like you're getting channels numbered just like 1450khz does. He has an HD tuner card in his PC connected to his cable line. I think those are the "QAM" channels (???).

Yeah, when I post the channel #'s as I see them it's actually the RF position on the cable system.

Here's what's unscrambled at my location (Fairborn).
91.1 WHIO
93.1 WRGT
93.2 WKEF
108.1-5 WPTD
108.6-10 WPTO
109.1-4 WCET
109.5 WBDT (was missing, I'll have to see if it's back)
114.1 Discovery HD
114.2 TNT HD
117-120.1 random EWTN Stuff

Also on 110-113 I occasionally see "on demand" stuff come through in the clear. ESPN HD was on 106.1 in the clear when it first came on but it's scrambled now.

Originally posted by 1450kHz

109.5 WBDT (was missing, I'll have to see if it's back) Most likely still gone. This was viewable if you put the set-top in DIAG mode and tuned directly to it's channel (726). You can still do this and you get a banner telling you it's WB, WBDT 26, etc, etc, but no picture. Same thing with WDTN (702).
Also on 110-113 I occasionally see "on demand" stuff come through in the clear. ESPN HD was on 106.1 in the clear when it first came on but it's scrambled now. That was probably HD-OnDemand, which was "free" for a month or so via DIAG mode, but is now on, so no longer free, and an HD-PPV (events, like boxing) channel. You're probably only seeing the looping "infomercial" for these channels though. Without a set-top, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to watch any movie. Did you try ?? :)

That was probably HD-OnDemand, which was "free" for a month or so via DIAG mode, but is now on, so no longer free, and an HD-PPV (events, like boxing) channel. You're probably only seeing the looping "infomercial" for these channels though. Without a set-top, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to watch any movie. Did you try ??

Nope, I've never seen HD On Demand. The stuff that I have seen in the 110-113 range was SD material from a few sources, like Boomerang, the AOL music videos, etc.

I can see the looping "infomercial" on one of the other channels, 100 or 101.

Once I hit an on-demand channel and it was the beginning of a movie but it went scrambled before the movie started.

Most likely still gone. This was viewable if you put the set-top in DIAG mode and tuned directly to it's channel (726). You can still do this and you get a banner telling you it's WB, WBDT 26, etc, etc, but no picture. Same thing with WDTN (702).

When I first set up the Fusion card I was actually getting WDTN on 91.1 (WHIO was on 91.2). Sometime in between it was removed. Looks like WBDT is missing from 109.5 now too and that it's being used for a CET subchannel.

Originally posted by 1450kHz
When I first set up the Fusion card I was actually getting WDTN on 91.1 (WHIO was on 91.2). Sometime in between it was removed. Was this around the time that WDTN and WKEF swapped networks ?? I recall you saying that WDTN was still available in DT/HD for a short time.... Like the network guys (TW's) forgot to disable it or turn it off.

Was this around the time that WDTN and WKEF swapped networks ?? I recall you saying that WDTN was still available in DT/HD for a short time.... Like the network guys (TW's) forgot to disable it or turn it off.

You are correct sir, it was when WDTN was still ABC.

Currently watching the AFC game in HD.....on WBNS. :D Bite me WHIO. :p

Originally posted by 1450kHz
Here's what's unscrambled at my location (Fairborn).
91.1 WHIO
93.1 WRGT
93.2 WKEF
108.1-5 WPTD
108.6-10 WPTO
109.1-4 WCET
109.5 WBDT (was missing, I'll have to see if it's back)
114.1 Discovery HD
114.2 TNT HD
117-120.1 random EWTN Stuff


Thanks for the list--I'll check for those tonight. I'm in Oakwood, and I think we and Kettering are on a different TWC system than Fairborn, so I'm probably not going to be getting all of those. I think my TV would have found them on the auto-scan. Worth a look, though.

Phil

Originally posted by s1059197
Thanks for the list--I'll check for those tonight. I'm in Oakwood, and I think we and Kettering are on a different TWC system than Fairborn, so I'm probably not going to be getting all of those. I think my TV would have found them on the auto-scan. Worth a look, though.

Phil

The only lineup variance that I know of as far as the QAM channels is that WCET may not be available in your area.

I'm not sure if your set auto-detects between 256QAM and 64QAM or not. Everything on TWC has been 256QAM except Ch. 79 which I did get a hit on in 64QAM mode on my card but it was scrambled so nothing showed up.

You could try manually entering the channel numbers and see what you get. Your set may not auto-detect everything since there's a lot of variations between QAM tuners and QAM implementations--there's not a real standard so not every tuner will work on a given cable setup.

I've had good results with my FusionHD card in my computer. My main complaint isn't the hardware, it's that their software is often buggy. It's gotten better through a few releases since I first got the card.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
BTW. I haven't been "glued" to it, but I haven't seen any sign of any video freezes here tonight from them ... <jinx alert>


I tried to watch the UC vs Wake Forest game on Saturday on the HD station (even though the game was only in SD), but it kept freezing up. The problem doesn't appear to be going away.

Can anyone recommend a good antenna installer in the Dayton area?

I live in Miamisburg. I'd like to find someone knowledgeable who can tell me what I need to install, sell it to me, and do the installation. I'd like to be able to receive the Dayton and Cincinnatti analog and digital stations.

Someone recommended A & A Antenna and Sattelite on Springborro-Pike to me but they don't seem to be in business anymore. At least they don't answer their phone and their office looks vacant.

er824,

Funny thing, I'd called the number listed on winegard site(they were/are listed as a winegard distributor there) for A&A about a month ago-- and, it was a residental number ... I think the lady who now has that number was a little tired of getting calls about antennas ....

I don't know who any of the installers in the area are, but there evidently must be some from what I gathered from a conversation with the folks at Dayton Wintronic not too long ago.

Let us know what you find out, as although many of us prefer to DIY, I'm sure there are others here who are, or will in the future be looking for a good installer who knows what they are doing with OTA in the area.

I've heard of Priske's TV & Electronic Service...I got a PM from someone who said they did work on his rotor/antenna system but he didn't know if they did masts.

I'm looking to get a mast installed if I buy a house sometime this year. I was going to try that number or otherwise contact a couple of ham types I know that do mast work.

Here's what I found when I checked the phone number:
Tom Priske TV & Electronics
6855 N Dixie Dr
Dayton, OH 45414-3263
(937) 890-1230

Penny Satellite and Sounds does antennas according to their phone book ad. They're in S Kettering/Centerville and *look* like a nice outfit. I know they've been around for quite some time too.... Can't vouch for them personally, of course.

Being in Miamisburg, a set-top antenna will likely work fine for Dayton locals, would it not ?? Cincy's are another story, but I doubt that a full-mast is even required for them. From what I gather from Nitewatchman's posts, most of their towers are in the NW area of "greater" Cincy, i.e. SW Dayton :).

Thanks for the replys guys. I've got a guy coming out from Hyde Sattelite and Antenna on Friday. Hopefully he's decent.... So far he's the only one I've been able to get to call me back. I'd feel better if he was recommended instead of a shot in the dark from the Yellow Pages though.

Don't call Penny's. You'll probabely just get the IRS trying to recoup some money in Penny's name. If A&A is out of business, someone on Springboro pike is pulling in all kinds of channels with those 50 ft towers in the front yard. Anyways the guys at Wintronics deal with local installers every day. I'm sure they could reccommend someone for you. And ER824 if they say Hanson... Ouch!!!

I take it Penney's is out of business or something ?? :D

Originally posted by 1450kHz
Yeah, when I post the channel #'s as I see them it's actually the RF position on the cable system.

Here's what's unscrambled at my location (Fairborn).
91.1 WHIO
93.1 WRGT
93.2 WKEF
108.1-5 WPTD
108.6-10 WPTO
109.1-4 WCET
109.5 WBDT (was missing, I'll have to see if it's back)
114.1 Discovery HD
114.2 TNT HD
117-120.1 random EWTN Stuff



Finally finished fishing around to see what kind of unencrypted digital stations I can get on my TWC Classic Tier feed (using my TV's built-in HD tuner). I was able to find everything that 1450kHz listed above (minus the WB, which he's no longer able to get either), though most of the RF channel #s are different here in Oakwood than 1450kHz is seeing in Fairborn. If anyone's interested, I can write down and post the #s for the Kettering/Oakwood area. It's kind of nice to be able to pull in some HD programming out of the box without changing my cable service or hooking up an antenna.

Thanks for listing everything out, 1450kHz. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known what to keep looking for.

Originally posted by s1059197
It's kind of nice to be able to pull in some HD programming out of the box without changing my cable service or hooking up an antenna. Or paying for it, for that matter ! :D

Originally posted by hall
Or paying for it, for that matter ! :D

Well, yes. That's exactly right. I still want to get full HDTV service from TW or DirecTV (especially since my TiVo can't handle HD signals), but this removes some of the urgency.

OTA antennas

Both A&A and Penney are gone. The little dish systems have just about taken over. I suspect some of the older shops will get back in the antenna business as HD grows. Just try to find a C-band shop still in business! The only one I know of is Starpath on rt 122 east of I-75 (at least it was last summer). For DIY, Wintronics sells Channel Master and Antenna Craft. Also Rankin & Houser has CM and Winegard. It just takes some digging.

Dave W.

Originally posted by hall

From what I gather from Nitewatchman's posts, most of their towers are in the NW area of "greater" Cincy, i.e. SW Dayton .


No big deal, but just to clarify, I'm quite sure I've never said that. Most of the towers for the Cincinnati stations are within a mile or so of downtown Cincinnati, and about 42~44 Miles SSW of Dayton Antenna farm. WCVN is a little farther -- about 6 miles South of downtown in N KY, and WSTR's "star tower" is a few miles North of downtown, TBN translator W61DE is not far from WSTR. The coverage area for the low power stations is smaller, but for the most part in this area the coverage areas for most stations are about a 55~65 mile radius - Which Northwards of Cincinnati, would reach about to I-70 or so.

WPTO analog transmits from Oxford, but their digital station currently transmits from WXIX tower in Cincinnati, which is about a mile or so West of Downtown.

WKOI TBN(Community of license, Richmond, IN) transmits from a tower between Trenton+Oxford, Ohio. Their digital is currently low power with a directional antenna that doesn't squirt much power anywhere except towards Richmond.

Except for WWRD-LP 55(analog only, infomericals - Moving to ch 32 "someday") whose tower is near bellbrook, all the other Dayton stations transmit from the Dayton antenna farm -- Just SW of Downtown Dayton, on the hill between 75+RT 4 .. You can't miss them ... There is also a TBN low power translator on ch 47(moving to ch 20 "someday") in Springfield.

Originally posted by DaveDubya
Just try to find a C-band shop still in business! The only one I know of is Starpath on rt 122 east of I-75 (at least it was last summer).

It was still open in mid-december or so as well. They have been there a Long time ...

---------------------------------------------------


Speaking of antennas, since things seem a little slow here, and in case anyone is interested ... I got a wild hair(because I happened across a bunch of "free stuff" mostly) to do tower work in 25 degree weather a while back .....

So, I ended up upgrading the "main" antenna setup here a bit to hopefully improve things a little for TV Dx'ing. Well, mainly I did it because I came across a bunch of stuff someone was giving away, but I ended up buying some stuff as well ....

What I had before was just fine for the locals(and did pretty well for DX'ing, too), although the new setup does give me pretty much snow free reception from all the Low Power Cincinnati analogs. With the old "main" antenna setup --which I put up in about '92 or '93 - large VHF/UHF combo - VU210 at 38FT w/rotor+w/Blonder-Tongue mast mount preamp --- those Cincy LP's were a tad snowy. Which is to be expected since I'm outside their predicted coverage area, Generally, by about 11 miles or so. I'm also Getting a tad better pic from the Lousiville, Columbus+Indy Lo-VHF's now, and so far it seems like it is also going to work pretty well for DX'ing when condtions allow.

I'm about 8 Miles WSW of Miamisburg, BTW - between Middetown+Germantown. I do probably require a bit "more" antenna for "best" reception because I'm down in a small, steep valley, but the antennas I have "on top" of tower for the most part is probably a bit of "overkill" just for local reception. On the other hand, The tower is nowhere near high enough to clear the terrain issues that are a problem in many directions, and the best of antennas isn't going to "fix" that problem ....

Anyway, I got a couple of things from Wintronic, some of the stuff came from someone giving away a bunch stuff, some of the stuff I already had, the XG91 came from antennasdirect via online order. I still am waiting on a Winegard CA-8800 FM/TV band seperator I ordered from Rankin&Hauser over 3 weeks ago.

Leaving out the boring details about grounding to NEC and heavy duty rotors and "windload" considerations and waterproof/waterproofing the connections/etc/etc and the like here's what I'm now using, with a pic also attached - This pic was from before I got rid of a little "extra" coax I had between antennas+ground blocks(had to wait until a warmer day when my fingers would work better before getting rid of the extra Coax+putting on new connectors), you might see some of that where I had it wrapped around tower in a couple of places. You might not be able to tell from the pic, but the boom on VHF antenna has some slight "bends" in it, as it had a little accident in its previous life, but luckily I was able to repair the boom damage it sustained from a fall ... - I don't think it's performance has been affected any .... :

------------------------
"Main antenna" setup on "top" of tower with rotor -- I use this for the Cincinnati locals, and everything else besides Dayton - Mainly for DX when conditions allow - with a little "rotoring" of course :

UHF

1. Antennasdirect XG91 at about 40ft, no balun.
2. approx 3' 300ohm twinlead(just enough to get to the mast/preamp with a drip loop)
3. Winegard AC-4990 Preamp (does not pass VHF) - This is a Older model preamp from the 80's: 29db gain, 2.9db NF. 300 ohm input, PCB balun.
4. approx 25' RG6 to Ground block
5. 28 ft RG6 to attic
6. Power supply for preamp
7. Winegard UT027 tuneable UHF trap - Both sides(each side does about a 9db notch) set to knock down WKEF 22
8. UHF port on CM0549 combiner

VHF

1.Winegard CS-5200(200" boom) Broadband VHF(ch 2-13) antenna at about 33 Ft. AGL. Note - They don't make this model anymore, this is an antenna from 70's/80's or earlier, this particuar one was new in the mid 80's ...
2. approx 19' RG-6 to ground block
3. 28ft RG-6 to attic
3. Blonder-tongue 2 way splitter - I have a Winegard CA-8800 FM/TV band separator on order, hopefully I'll be able to replace the splitter with it soon. Anyhow, for now, from the splitter One side goes to VHF TV setup(below), the other side goes to FM - basically,on "FM side" from splitter right now are coax stub fitlers for TV ch 2,5+7,(which I should be able to take out when/if I get the CA-8800 - I don't have the splitter after the Traps for TV described below as it just doesn't seem to quite work as well on FM for some reason) and to a distribution amp then to receivers. The coax stub filters for 2,5,7 are to help keep the amp from overloading. This antenna certianly isn't the best thing for long distance FM reception/FM Dx'ing, but it works to some extent anyway.
4. 3 Winegard TRT-LO "high-q" tunable(54~108MHZ) filters set to knock down ch 2 (about 36db attenation on visual/color burst carriers, the audio carrier isn't affected much - the notch should just be affecting 2MHZ wide bandwidth around 54MHZ ). Note: I'm not sure, but I don't think they make the "TRT" filters anymore.
5. 1 Winegard TRT-HI "high-q" tunable(174-216MHZ) trap set to knock down ch 7(about 12.5db)
6. 1 Blonder-Tongue MWT-3 tunable(174-216MHZ)Channel trap, with both sides set to knock down ch 7. I'm not sure of the specs on it, the current "newer" version can do a 60db notch .. It's probably pretty close to that.
7. CM 7778 preamp - FM trap engaged, set for it's "seperate VHF" input.
8. VHF port on CM0549 combiner

VHF/UHF combined - Then onto a 2 way splitter, 2 feeds going to 2 different rooms, A/B switch to switch between "main" and Dayton antenna(decribed below) --- except for DTC-100, which already has 2 antenna inputs+a A/B switch on remote ---- and then 2 way splitter is used in each room to feed various devices ....

Channel traps Note: the channel traps are mounted in a Ammo box -- Which provides some extra(needed since 2/7 come in "off the screws" so to speak) RF shielding .. While I suppose it would be better to put the traps+preamp for VHF antenna on the mast, it really wouldn't work too well since I want to be able to take out the traps easily enough in order to do DX work on 2+7 if/whenever I catch WDTN/WHIO analogs off air. Also, it would be better to put the UHF traps before the preamp, but for same general reason didn't+from what I can tell, the UHF preamp isn't having much problem with overload issues, but the trap set for 22 is helping the tuner and signals from WBNS-DT 21.

The reasons for the 2+7 traps are to keep the preamp from overloading and creating intermod(without them+with antennas aimed towards Dayton, I get such things as ch 2 showing up on channel 60, ch 7 on cable channel 25 from the intermod being created by the overloaded preamp, and of course in general extra "noise" would be spread elsewhere as well), and also to "help" the generally poor selectivity of consumer TV receviers for reception of stations that are on 1st adjacent channels to strong locals..., making it possible to receive (at times with help of a little "tropo") stations like WJW 8 Cleveland with antenna aimed right at WHIO 7(and WJW).


-----------------------------------------------------

"Dayton" antenna :

Didn't change anything here, but for completeness, this is what I use/have been using for the Dayton stations - From 12~14 miles distant "over a hill" .

UHF

Early 80's model 25 element UHF Yagi/Corner reflector(RS I think), side mounted to tower at about 28ft+aimed towards Dayton antenna farm. When I found it in the rafters in my garage, it needed some "repairs" -- Mainly, I had to fashion a new driven element and reattach it's corner reflectors .. I wasn't sure of the exact length of the orginal driven element, I think it's close howver, and is 1/2 wave dipole at about mid-band (Channel 38). I have this antenna "connected" to the UHF input on CM3038 preamp "inside" a "modified" CM3010 "stealthtenna". A short piece of twinlead is used.

VHF

"modified" CM3010 stealthtenna, side mounted to tower at about 24ft. The VHF "rabbit ears"(that's pretty much what it is, outdoor rabbit ears) on the CM3010 I only use for analog ch 2+7(WLWT 5 Cincinnati comes in well off the back side, too, and I often see WCMH 4 Columbus on it as well) - Basically, the "modification" was, I removed the CM3010's UHF antenna+hooked up the antenna described above to UHF "input" on CM3010's internal circut board's(in this case, the optional CM3038 preamp). However, All the "UHF input" on the board actually consists of are contact points which normally contact the CM3010's UHF single "element" - which is a center fed dipole cut for ch 17 - "rabbit ears" for ch 17 is what it actually is, obviously not a very good performer on UHF. So, for better contact points, I used a short piece of "folded" down fairly small diameter copper tubing(about 1/2" long) on each side to replace the CM3010's element and, added terminals(screws) to that so I could hook up the twinlead from UHF antenna to it, and sealed up the old "holes" in CM3010's plastic casing where the UHF element used to stick out - the feed from the UHF antenna goes through one of those holes as well. It's a 300ohm "input" on the board of course, the CM3038 amp(or it's non-amplified "stock" board) is of course also a VHF/UHF combiner, as well as a 300 ohm-75ohm balun on the circut board. I have the FM trap engaged on CM3038, BTW, although I do feed what FM signals are there(the strong local signals, of which there are many) to one FM receiver off it.

VHF/UHF for Dayton antenna :

approx. 12' RG-6 to ground block
28 ft RG-6 to attic
Power supply for CM3038 preamp.
3- 2 way splitters in various places, with 4 different feeds going to 4 different rooms. 2 Rooms just get the feed from the Dayton antenna, as described previously the other two rooms get feeds from the "main" antenna+the Dayton antenna, with A/B switch used before receivers/etc. to switch between them.

Here's a pic of the "fun part" of the setup - BTW - Here, the antennas on the mast on rotor are aimed towards Cincinnati, the antennas side mounted to tower(at "rear" in this pic) are "permanently" aimed towards Dayton antenna farm :

Nice, Jeff! I have Antenna Envy! :)

Me too Jeff! Looks like my tower I had in Iowa. I had to go 60-90 miles to get stations.

Well, WDTN PSIP doesn't work for me(Mitsubishi Integrated Tuner). It hasn't for a while now. Right now I dont have my second Dayton antenna connected to my HDTV because of basement construction, so I dont get WHIO and WPTD off the back of the antenna, but I get WDTN, WKEF, WGRT. How easy is it to contact WDTN engineering? Because it seems WCPO, WXIX are impossible to get a response from.

Thanks guys ... It's nothing all that special though, really .... You should have seen the antenna farm the VHF antenna came from ....

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg


Well, WDTN PSIP doesn't work for me(Mitsubishi Integrated Tuner). It hasn't for a while now. Right now I dont have my second Dayton antenna connected to my HDTV because of basement construction, so I dont get WHIO and WPTD off the back of the antenna, but I get WDTN, WKEF, WGRT. How easy is it to contact WDTN engineering? Because it seems WCPO, WXIX are impossible to get a response from.

Dogg - Since about the first of the year or so, my Mits integrated tuner stopped getting WDTN-DT correctly. It used to get it on 2.01 and 2.02 - but then it moved to 50.03 and 50.04. What's odd is that my HDTivo OTA tuner still gets it on 2.01 and 2.02.

I was flipping channels last night and WHIO didn't bother flipping the switch for "The Magic of Ordinary Days"..and i don't think they ever did as far as i can tell

Didn't watch it, but it kind of got my attention when I saw that the CBS made for tv movie wasn't HD.

I noticed that too, but didn't check it again on WHIO after about 9:05pm or so. I wonder if CBS didn't send a memo ... as Evidently, It took a couple of minutes for someone at WKRC-DT to notice it was being sent HD by CBS, and then switch to HD feed ....

it would be kind of silly if they didn't get the "memo"

i mean, CBS made for tv movies have been airing in HD for the better part of the last 2 years

Stranger things have happened. It was just a guess since it's unusual to see both WHIO-DT and WKRC-DT(just at first) miss it ... I haven't seen that happen that I can recall in, oh, probably 3 years or so. BTW, they had occasional made for TV movies in CBS HD even back that far, but not almost all of them as has been the case since about Fall 2002 or so ....

I may have missed it, but I also didn't see a "available in HDTV" (or whatever it says) at beginning ...

Can't say for sure though, as it's been a long time since I could check and see here:

http://www.cbsbroadcastcontrol.com/

For a time, it was a "open" site though ...

WRGT-DT is remapping to 45-1 on my Zenith HDV420 receiver at 11:44 AM 2/1. However, the receiver won't decode anything. It's seeing "blank screen mode" from them presently. Hopefully it's just a temporary situation while they're working on it ....

Update 12:07pm : WRGT-DT is decoding just fine, and remapping just fine to 45-1 now .. woohoo! WKEF-DT currently in "blank screen mode"(reciever not showing anything except signal on 51), I suspect they are working on its PSIP now, hopefully it will go as (seemingly) smoothly as was the case with WRGT-DT ...

That's with the Zenith box, haven't had a chance to check the DTC-100 yet ..

I wonder if WKEF will address the dropout issue? Do they even know or care?

I told them about it several times from the time I first noticed it(back in 2002 or 2003 If I remember correctly) up until some point last summer when they seemed to stop replying to my correspondance(as did most of the other stations in the area, for whatever odd reason that may be involved).

But they never said anything about it, even though they replied about other(and addressed when possible) issues I had reported about in those exchanges. I also get a lot of dropped frames(audio is fine) during some(but not all) non-fox programming with ONLY the Zenith HDV420 Box(RCA DTC-100 doesn't do it) from WRGT-DT 30-1(has been the case since they started sending 720p), and they did try to address that by adjusting their encoder, but I'm still seeing the issue occasionally(although it has been a several days since I've seen any sign of it).

Anyway -- At 12:30pm, WKEF-DT is decoding just fine again here, but it's still on 51-1, not remapping.

Any chance of WHIO multicasting NCAA torunament games this year? The Cincinnati affiliate has done it in the past (but not last year). It would also be nice to see the Flyers in HD.

Originally posted by dc10forlife
Any chance of WHIO multicasting NCAA torunament games this year? The Cincinnati affiliate has done it in the past (but not last year). It would also be nice to see the Flyers in HD.


Last year if i remember right they showed the games from the HD location for the sweet 16 and elite 8 on 41-1 while the local intrest game on 41-2 and the analog station. Don't know why they didn't do this for the first two rounds.

edit: i went back through the thread and here's the link to nitewatchmans post confirming that we were seeing multicasting on WHIO http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3583144#post3583144

I must have jinxed it ... WRGT-DT is not decoding here again currently(at least between 3:50~4:10pm) ... Signal is fine as allways, neither receiver here can get a lock or decode any data however ... Hopefully it's just because they are working on it again .. If, however it keeps up for a long period of time I'll have to turn the PSIP stuff off on DTC-100 and see if it can decode anything from them ...

Update 5pm : WRGT-DT decoding just fine again, remapping to 45-1. Looks like they are populating the EIT's with :WRGT, WRGT WRGT, so perhaps actual EPG info isnt' far behind ...

Hopefully they will also get PSIP/remapping for WKEF-DT straightened out soon ...

WRGT hosed all night tonight

OC and Point Pleasant are both SD

Even the splicer can't fix local issues

Noticed that ... As you probably remember, It's happened before for days at a time, but it's been a while.

Unless something is "wrong", I have to wonder why they would even switch off the feed coming from the splicer during Fox programming, as my understanding is that most stations have it set up to chase analog master control when they switch to net(Fox sends anything that isn't HD as SD upconvert over the "HD feed" via splicer), and that's how Fox recommends that it be done ... Given what we experienced with them before the splicer+with Fox WS/etc, That certianly has to be the reason why WXIX-DT Cincinnati never misses FOX HD ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Noticed that ... As you probably remember, It's happened before for days at a time, but it's been a while.

Unless something is "wrong", I have to wonder why they would even switch off the feed coming from the splicer during Fox programming, as my understanding is that most stations have it set up to chase analog master control when they switch to net(Fox sends anything that isn't HD as SD upconvert over the "HD feed" via splicer), and that's how Fox recommends that it be done ... Given what we experienced with them before the splicer+with Fox WS/etc, That certianly has to be the reason why WXIX-DT Cincinnati never misses FOX HD ...

The only other time I can recall it being down is on TWC..They sent out the SD feed on TWC for a few NFL games this season but if you were watching OTA, you were getting the HD feed

The engineering staff really needs to get it together at WKEF/WRGT..I know they're working two stations, but isn't that what they're getting paid for?

Back in September~November, OTA there were 2 or 3 times when it was Solid 4x3 SD(even When Fox had HD or SD widescreen, easy to tell since WXIX-DT has allways passed it through since Fox went HD in September) from about thursday night until Sunday just before the game ...

At least one time the pregame show was 4x3 SD as well ... You wouldn't have noticed it if all you were watching at that time was HD football, and granted, there wasn't a lot of other HD/Widescreen programming airing from Fox at that time(Fox News Sunday was one of them, however).

It was also easy to tell back then they were on the SD feed instead of using SD upconverts via the splicer, as there was the infamous WRGT "crease" at bottom of screen via the SD feed, which was on the analog+digital station. I noticed I didn't see the crease on the SD tonight.

I guess, given what we've gotten from them in the past, I'm just happy they have been on top of things with ABC HD on WKEF-DT. In winter 02-03, for instance, WRGT analog was off air completely for over a week, and was at LP for months after that. And, you wouldn't believe how often WKEF-DT used to miss NBC HD before their digital switcher was installed.

I'd think the FOX HD part SHOULD be fairly easy for them to take care of though, I'd think, as FOX made it easy to automate the switching, supposedly so the "missing the HD switch" wouldn't happen anymore at stations ....

I'm not sure where exactly to place any "blame" about it, but I'm not so sure I'd necessarily put it on the folks at the station .... It might be difficult for them to get all the "resources" they need, and since WRGT/WKEF digitals were among the very first Sinclair DTV stations on the air, (WKEF-DT had to almost be the first one of them, if not the very first with HD) they might be "last in line" for upgrades...

I would imagine that anybody hosting a Super Bowl party could get a little nervous over WRGT. It sure makes me more comfortable knowing I've got Cincy backups, but not everyone has that luxury. Let's hope this is only a brief problem, not days like before.

WRGT wasn't the only one having problems last night... WDTN was as well... I was watching Joey in HD and DD5.1, and then a few mins after the first commercial break it just went to SD. When Will and Grace first started at 8:30 it was full 16:9 HD for approx. 1 sec and then it went to SD for the rest of the show. For that 1 sec. i thought we would finally be able to see W&G in HD... oh well, there's always next week.

Over in the HD Programming forum there's a few threads about this. It appears to be a national issue as people all over the country were losing DD5.1, going from HD to SD and back and so on.... This was for "Joey", not "Will and Grace" though. I'm sure it's all related though ! ER apparently was fine though.

Originally posted by hall
Over in the HD Programming forum there's a few threads about this. It appears to be a national issue as people all over the country were losing DD5.1, going from HD to SD and back and so on.... This was for "Joey", not "Will and Grace" though. I'm sure it's all related though ! ER apparently was fine though.

Well considering we haven't had W&G in HD yet at WDTN, i'm wondering if they have some sort of auto HD switcher that they program based on time, and W&G hasn't been programmed. I'm not sure exactly how the switching works, Nitewatchman might be able to fill us in. Also Nitewatchman have you heard anything back from Atkinson when you contacted him about W&G?

Thanks

Originally posted by browerjs
Well considering we haven't had W&G in HD yet at WDTN, i'm wondering if they have some sort of auto HD switcher that they program based on time, and W&G hasn't been programmed. I'm not sure exactly how the switching works, Nitewatchman might be able to fill us in. Also Nitewatchman have you heard anything back from Atkinson when you contacted him about W&G?

Thanks

Nope, haven't heard back from him. I suppose they are "busy" due to new FCC PSIP compliance requirements, as well as Channel election procedures/etc, and Feb sweeps period ... But, I'm not sure if that explains it. I used to have good communication "lines" with most(with a couple of exceptions like WHIO) of the engineers at the area stations, but in the past six months or so I've rarely gotten a response from most of them, except from ThinkTV and KET, and from a couple of the other Cincinnati stations.

If I recall correctly -- I think NBC sends a "signal" that triggers automated switching equipment when the HD feed is active. I'm not sure how that works at WDTN or how they utilize it, and/or if their switcher is "programmed" ahead of time(Many stations do do it that way, and I'd say it's very possible).

I do know the HD switching for WDTN is controlled from a control room at WISH TV in Indianapolis. They do do monitoring of the digital station to some degree at WDTN-DT as well. Here's a link to a "tour" of the facility in Indy with pics, from shortly before they started controlling WDTN from there : ( http://www.dxfm.com/WISH-TV/WISH-TV.htm )

I also know it is possible for them to manually switch to HD if necessary, as I've called them before and they've called indy and the MC ops switched it to HD within a couple of minutes(sometimes it took longer). That's not to say if you call them you will allways be "successful" in getting your message through concerning missing HD.

I don't know about W&G being HD from NBC except those first few episodes of this year. There was a thread in programming area about it, and a mentione that NBC took the "HD" logo off their site for it, but I haven't checked that thread in a couple of weeks. I do know that last night when I checked it neither WLWT-DT or WDTN-DT had NBC HD for "Joey" or "W&G", so I just assumed it was a network issue, since for the most part when I've checked it, it's been actually rare to see either station miss HD.

Will & Grace and Joey both have the little "HDTV" button on their NBC pages (right now). I also thought I read that some of the W&G episodes were in HD while others weren't (yet). I would think that until a show is and will be HD from now on that they wouldn't add that HDTV button.

I think NBC sends a "signal" that triggers automated switching equipment when the HD feed is active. Maybe the other local stations need a *siren* or *horn* that blares to tell them to switch to HD. :D

Originally posted by Paul210
I would imagine that anybody hosting a Super Bowl party could get a little nervous over WRGT.

Well, We've Got HD for "Bernie Mac" From WRGT-DT at 8pm ... Hopefully that's a good sign ...

Does anyone know when Time Warner will be broadcasting the WB (I assume on 726) and NBC (I assume 702) in HD?

Has anyone got their SA 8300 HD DVR? Are the multiroom units available yet?

Originally posted by koach
Does anyone know when Time Warner will be broadcasting the WB (I assume on 726) and NBC (I assume 702) in HD?

Has anyone got their SA 8300 HD DVR? Are the multiroom units available yet?

I emailed my contact at TWC WOH about the 8300HD and future HD channels, his response:

"We've completed testing of the 8300HD, very nice box. We've ordered 1500 that will start to arrive late Feb, early Mar. Aside from the HD on Demand (currently on 1001), there are no new HD services that I've heard of. "

Originally posted by browerjs
I emailed my contact at TWC WOH about the 8300HD and future HD channels, his response:

"We've completed testing of the 8300HD, very nice box. We've ordered 1500 that will start to arrive late Feb, early Mar. Aside from the HD on Demand (currently on 1001), there are no new HD services that I've heard of. "

Can you find out if any of these 1500 units are the multiroom units?

All the 1st round Channel election forms from Dayton stations are now in to FCC. This is the first round of the process to detirmine which actual channel stations will use to send their signals on(not the remapped channel numbers, which will in most cases remain the same as the current analog channel #) after analog shut off.

First Round Channel elections for Dayton :
-----------------------------------------------------

WPTD 16
WKEF 22
WBDT 26
WHIO 41
WRGT 45
WDTN 50
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

First Round Channel elections for Lima :

WLIO 8
WTLW 47

------------------------------

Here's a quick list of the 1st round channel elections for some nearby stations in adjacent markets which I know some of us receive, or that will be/are or might have been depending upon their choice a potential Co-channel interference issue. I included info on a few others as well. In parentheses are the current analog(first number) and digital channel assignments(2nd number) for these stations.

Cincinnati Area
-------------------------

WCPO - 10 (9,10)
WKRC - 12 (12, 31)
WCVN - 24 (54, 24)
WPTO - 28 (14, 28)
WXIX - 29 (19, 29)
WSTR - 33 (64,33)
WCET - 34 (48, 34)
WLWT- 35 (5,35)
WKOI 39 (43, 39)

Columbus
------------
WCMH - 14 (4, 14)
WSYX - NOTE Wants 36 via NCA, if not their 2nd choice is 13 - (6, 13)
WBNS - 10 (10, 21)
WTTE - NOTE Wants 28 via NCA, if not 2nd choice is 36 - (28, 36)
WOSU - 38 (34, 38)
WWHO - 46 (53, 46)

Note: I guess it's pretty easy to work out a Negotiated channel arrangement(NCA) between two stations that are "co-operated"
by sinclair (WSYX, WTTE).

Lexington
----------
WKYT 13 (27, 13)
WDKY 4 (56, 4)

Central Indiana/Indy/Bloomington/etc
--------

WISH - 9 (8, 9)
WHMB - 16 (40, 16)
WTTK - 29 (29, 54)
WRTV - 25 (6,25)
WXIN - 45 (59, 45)
WTTV - 48 (4, 48)


Louisville
-----------
WLKY 26 (32, 26)
WAVE 47 (3, 47)
WDRB 49 (41, 49)

Surprise surprise ....

WKEF-DT is now sending proper PSIP channel remapping info -- It's now remapping to 22-1, AND the SD subchannel is GONE ...

I had also noticed that the info from STT PSIP table(time/date) was incorrect from WRGT-DT for the last week or so -- and there was some EPG info being sent as well, but their clock info is correct as well currently, although I don't see any EPG info via PSIP EIT's coming from WRGT-DT or WKEF-DT currently .. Nor have I seen any EPG data from WBDT-DT, although EPG seems to be up now from the rest ....

FYI, WDTN did show Will and Grace in HD and DD 5.1 for the first time last night

Originally posted by Nitewatchman

WKEF-DT is now sending proper PSIP channel remapping info -- It's now remapping to 22-1, AND the SD subchannel is GONE ...


Well..I wonder if that has anything to do with the multicast must carry being struck down

Now if we could get DTN and HIO to do the same and get KEF up and running with 5.1...

AT 8~8:30pm this evening(fri) notice that:

#1). Big time A/V sync problem during ABC HD on WKEF-DT ... (A/V sync is fine BTW during ABC HD feed from WCPO-DT Cincinnati)

#2). CBS HD from WHIO-DT 7.1 is just a mess ... the screen is "1/2" full of "junk" and pixelization during CBS HD for "Joan of Aracadia" ... 7.2 SD is fine .... CBS HD is fine from WKRC-DT, Cincinnati ... I noticed earlier tonight during syndicated programming that there was a bunch of Herringbone(Interference from a FM audio carrier) showing up on digital+analog WHIO Pic, I wonder if they've got some RF getting into their equipment somewhere it shouldn't be ....

#1 Same here.

#2 Wife will be angry; recorded it for her on SA8000HD dvr. Checked recording when noticed problem. Commercials looked great though!!

TWC-Greenville, OH

WHIO 91.1 is out on Time Warner right now. Fusion card can't understand what's coming in.

Haven't checked it recently, but earlier this afternoon 7-1 was not OTA either.

I noticed they had decodable A/V back on 7-1 last night, but not CBS HD when I checked it and compared to CBS HD from WKRC-DT ...

WHIO is a mess

grammy's are totally hosed

We had the Grammy's on WHIO-DT and a few minutes in the screen got all jibberish..... Flipped to the standard channel and it was okay, back to the other and still messed up. Told my wife, "Watch, they'll turn off the HD feed" and *flip*, they did. It looked real nice for the first couple of minutes.

Have they turned it back on ?? I'm guessing they won't chance it.

I called and the guy tried to transfer me to the control room but then said that they weren't picking up the phone

and this supposedly indicates there's an issue and they're working on it

pretty crappy..

i'll call one more time here

here's what they just told me

"It's a major technical issue and it's a station issue. We're upconverting from analog. I doubt it'll be fixed by the time it's over."

No HD tonight for primetime on WHIO

Audio sync is off on WKEF

:(

I haven't had a chance to check A/V sync from WKEF during ABC HD since I noticed it being off on Friday ...

At least you did get a "good answer" from WHIO-DT concerning the "garbled" HD, thanks for passing that along Rakesh .... Sounds like they are "on" the problem .... In some cases, just getting a station to "notice" they have a problem seems to be the hardest part ....

I'm guessing(just guessing) it is possible that it might be a while before they are able to fix it, however ...

With Time Warner carrying more HD (like WKEF) more people are noticing the audio sync problem. I was at a party Sunday night where the hosts were showing off their new Sony 60 inch TV by playing some HD material from WKEF which had audio sync problems, both live and recorded. The hosts kept trying to switch channels to fix the problem.

I don't have the TW HD recorder, but I have also noticed the audio sync both OTA and through the set top box.

If the out-of-sync on a program being played back is caused by the set-top (HD-DVR), it's easily remedied by hitting the 8-second rewind or pausing then resuming. This seems to be very common with all DVRs.

If it's out-of-sync from the provider, only they can fix it. In the past, people have reported audio/video out-of-sync with Everybody Loves Raymond, as I recall, and people watching it OTA or via TW's cable had it. In that case, the "fix" above won't help.

As for "Time Warner carrying more HD", we wish. They've added nothing in at least six months other than ESPN-HD that I'm aware of.

Good news ... CBS HD is back for "Y&R" from WHIO-DT at 12:47pm ... They must've been working on it, as 7.1 would not decode at 12:40pm when I first checked it(7.2 was fine), but now all is well ...

Note/update : WKEF-DT's A/V Sync problem since late last week is a problem at the station during ABC HD feed ... I just sent them a note about it to the "tech/engineering" via their contact form on their website here, others might want to try contacting them about it as well:

http://www.wkef22.com/dayton_oh/station/contact_departments.shtml

I'm going to call WKEF tonight if it isn't fixed..

Also, on a side note, regarding WHIO's multicasting, does anyone else want to try and talk to the folks at the station to see if we could get it turned off?

I called last night, and the operator gave me the engineer's name..We could call the station(at least a couple of us, i hope) during working hours and let them know the pq on the HD feed isn't too hot because of the sub.

I sent the info to a couple of WKEF engineer's as well, BTW ... I haven't heard from them in a long time so I don't know if they even still work there or not, but, the emails aren't bouncing back ...

On WHIO+the SD subchannel ... Someone posted some info from one of their engineers somewhere back in this thread, and he seemed to say there was no way they could drop it because they were using it for "something" ...

My best guess would be perhaps they may be using it to feed SD digital to some cable headend(s) somewhere. If so, if the cable head end in question is using OTA to pick them up, it's quite possible the analog is "impaired" PQ wise by analog reception "artifacts", something that doesn't happen with OTA digital .... Also, if you notice, they don't drop from HD to insert weather bugs/school closings etc(most stations don't have the equipment to insert local graphics/crawls into HD, I'd guess WHIO probably doesn't either but who knows), those are of course present on the SD feed. That may be another reason why they don't want to drop it, so they wouldn't have to drop from HD in order to meet their "public service" obligations on their digital station ...

Also, a number of us have contacted them many times in the past about the visably noticable "bit starved" aspect of their HD quality during bandwidth demanding source material. I personally began contacting them about it just a couple months after they came on the air, in Fall 2001. I've probably contacted them about it about 15 times since then, I can only recall getting a reply to my first message about it, They just said something like "we allocate 15mb/s to CBS HD" .... So, I'm not sure if it would do any good, but the more people that tell them about it, I suppose, the better. What might finally do the trick will be when their advertising clients start complaining about it ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
I sent the info to a couple of WKEF engineer's as well, BTW ... I haven't heard from them in a long time so I don't know if they even still work there or not, but, the emails aren't bouncing back ...

On WHIO+the SD subchannel ... Someone posted some info from one of their engineers somewhere back in this thread, and he seemed to say there was no way they could drop it because they were using it for "something" ...

My best guess would be perhaps they may be using it to feed SD digital to some cable headend(s) somewhere. If so, if the cable head end in question is using OTA to pick them up, it's quite possible the analog is "impaired" PQ wise by analog reception "artifacts", something that doesn't happen with OTA digital .... Also, if you notice, they don't drop from HD to insert weather bugs/school closings etc(most stations don't have the equipment to insert local graphics/crawls into HD, I'd guess WHIO probably doesn't either but who knows), those are of course present on the SD feed. That may be another reason why they don't want to drop it, so they wouldn't have to drop from HD in order to meet their "public service" obligations on their digital station ...

Also, a number of us have contacted them many times in the past about the visably noticable "bit starved" aspect of their HD quality during bandwidth demanding source material. I personally began contacting them about it just a couple months after they came on the air, in Fall 2001. I've probably contacted them about it about 15 times since then, I can only recall getting a reply to my first message about it, They just said something like "we allocate 15mb/s to CBS HD" .... So, I'm not sure if it would do any good, but the more people that tell them about it, I suppose, the better. What might finally do the trick will be when their advertising clients start complaining about it ...

Hey Jeff, that was actually me that posted the reply from Steve Hardy, who is a manager at some level within WHIO

What I don't understand about them feeding cable with the sd sub is, well, it's a stretched 16:9 signal..Even if they take a center cut, the picture will still be stretched.

Also regarding the weather warning crawls etc etc, most stations do not cut away from HD just to show it...They tend to not show it at all on the HD feed, at least from what i've seen, so this can't be that big of an issue.

If you hear back from any of your contacts at WKEF, please do let them know about the video freezes and ask them about adding 5.1

Thanks

Originally posted by Rakesh.S
What I don't understand about them feeding cable with the sd sub is, well, it's a stretched 16:9 signal..Even if they take a center cut, the picture will still be stretched.



Nope, it's not stretched, and it's not a 16x9 signal they are sending on the SD subchannel. Your TV is doing that "stretching" in its "native" 16x9 aspect ratio mode. They are sending 480i 4x3 format(just like all the other digital SD subchannels in the area from WDTN-DT, WPTD-DT) , it shows up "properly" as 4x3 on a 480i 4x3 set as is, or if you "squeeze in" sidebars using your set or STB's aspect ratio formatting modes, which I'd think should be available to you in some shape or fashion, but perhaps depending upon if you send 480i/p, 720p, 1080i from your receiver.

Originally posted by Rakesh.S

Also regarding the weather warning crawls etc etc, most stations do not cut away from HD just to show it...They tend to not show it at all on the HD feed, at least from what i've seen, so this can't be that big of an issue.


Well, it probably depends on the station and how they "interpet" things. I haven't seen it happen since FCC dropped their "analog simulcast rule", but the Cincinnati stations used to just about allways drop from HD to insert the local graphics. The Dayton stations didn't/haven't, I assume because up until recently, they all had SD subchannel/Simulcasts of analog. Since FCC recently dropped their "simulcast of analog programming" rule, however, perhaps you are right and it is no longer as much of an issue for them ...

Originally posted by Rakesh.S

If you hear back from any of your contacts at WKEF, please do let them know about the video freezes and ask them about adding 5.1


Oh, I've been telling them about the Video freezes since they first started happening about 3 years ago or so, at that time of course during NBC HD on average of about 2 times per hour .... Maybe they need more confirmation that everyone is getting this problem, or which receivers it is effecting if everyone isn't getting it ....

Also, a number of us have contacted them many times in the past about the visably noticable "bit starved" aspect of their HD quality during bandwidth demanding source material. I personally began contacting them about it just a couple months after they came on the air, in Fall 2001. I've probably contacted them about it about 15 times since then, I can only recall getting a reply to my first message about it, They just said something like "we allocate 15mb/s to CBS HD" .... So, I'm not sure if it would do any good, but the more people that tell them about it, I suppose, the better. What might finally do the trick will be when their advertising clients start complaining about it ...

I'll gladly let them know how much I enjoy watching WBNS instead. :D

I know one guy that works on the radio side down there and asked him to mention that too.

I did notice WHIO has a new "HDTV" section on it's website ... It's accessable at the far right side of their "menu" bar that has the bright red background (Home, news,etc,etc, UPN 17, etc, HDTV) :

http://www.whiotv.com/station/4175305/detail.html

In their FAQ in one spot it says:

More Than One Channel (Multicasting):
We can also squeeze in more than one "channel" of television or data into our digital TV channel. In special circumstances, we can choose to send a channel of high-definition TV, up to two channels of standard-definition TV (SDTV) and a channel of data at the same time . In severe weather, we can send regular programming over one channel and weather information over the other channels. During sporting events, such as the NCAA Basketball Tournament, we can broadcast more than one game at the same time, giving you the choice of which game to watch.

:end quote

And, I can choose to watch CBS HD on WKRC-DT :)

Rant mode on:

I still can't choose to watch the best possible quality pictures for PBS HD/Widescreen programming however ...well, not without spending a bunch of money to receive the PBS HD feed via sat(I think that's possible anyway). And, IMO that's pretty sad since there are FOUR PBS affiliates I receive in Dayton/Cincinnati, all of which do HD to some extent ... Then HD from the 5th, which I only see occasionally -- WOSU in Columbus is just as bad ... And I DO know what it should look like, as WCET-DT gave PBS HD "everything" for a few months when first coming on the air ....

Rant mode off ....

Well, didn't have a chance to check it until 8:30, but between 8:30 and 8:40pm A/V sync seems to be varying between being right on the money and being slightly off during ABC HD ... It was way off during the last net commercial break though .... At present(8:41pm) the audio is just slightly ahead of the video, probably by several 10's of milliseconds or so ...

So I assume they are working on it ...

Did you have to call them Rakesh?

Sync issues and video freezes on WKEF. Crappy pq on WCPO. Thank God for Columbus. They've got it right.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Well, didn't have a chance to check it until 8:30, but between 8:30 and 8:40pm A/V sync seems to be varying between being right on the money and being slightly off during ABC HD ... It was way off during the last net commercial break though .... At present(8:41pm) the audio is just slightly ahead of the video, probably by several 10's of milliseconds or so ...

So I assume they are working on it ...

Did you have to call them Rakesh?

I called but they don't have an option on the switchboard to transfer you to engineering.

I went ahead and left a message with the promotion director asking him to pass it along to engineering. I probably should've punched in the number for the news line and asked them to transfer me to engineering

Even though the sync isn't off by very much, it's still very noticeable and annoying

Yep, It is better than it was but still unwatchable because of the slight sync problem the last I checked it during ABC HD last night.

I hope they can get it fixed "soon" as unless WSYX-DT comes in here tonight, or WCPO-DT "miraclously" fixes their problems I guess I'll either have to live with WCPO-DT's 1280x360 "effective" resolution during ABC HD or I'll have to watch Lost and Alias on the ANALOG(which is probably what will end up happening) ... If so that will be the first time in 3+ years of watching Alias in HD I'll have to do that .... Yuck ... Or maybe I'll just watch something else, tonight ... I have been snoozing through Alias a awfully lot lately ...

I liked it better when WDTN-DT was ABC (and with DD 5.1), although I certianly didn't expect WCPO-DT to have the "long standing" PQ problem they've been having since their studio move last summer ..

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Yep, It is better than it was but still unwatchable because of the slight sync problem the last I checked it during ABC HD last night.

I hope they can get it fixed "soon" as unless WSYX-DT comes in here tonight, or WCPO-DT "miraclously" fixes their problems I guess I'll either have to live with WCPO-DT's 1280x360 "effective" resolution during ABC HD or I'll have to watch Lost and Alias on the ANALOG(which is probably what will end up happening) ... If so that will be the first time in 3+ years of watching Alias in HD I'll have to do that .... Yuck ... Or maybe I'll just watch something else, tonight ... I have been snoozing through Alias a awfully lot lately ...

I liked it better when WDTN-DT was ABC (and with DD 5.1), although I certianly didn't expect WCPO-DT to have the "long standing" PQ problem they've been having since their studio move last summer ..

Ditto for me with Alias..nothing too hot this season except for the undercover as husband and wife episode

Hmm, i wonder if the engineer might be available now at WKEF...I always call during the evening when there's a problem and they're gone by then.

Might be worth a shot to see if we can get the audio fixed before the show starts tonight

Originally posted by Rakesh.S
Might be worth a shot to see if we can get the audio fixed before the show starts tonight

Yep ... except the sync is fine for the local/syndicated programming and SD ABC feed, and I don't know if ABC sends a test signal these days on their HD feed during non-prime time ..

ABC used to send a "HD test loop" with HD clips of "101 damations", as well as a short "audio test", and HD clips the 98 Glenn shuttle launch when I manged to catch a few times when stations missed switching from HD feed after a show was over, but I'm not sure even that was sent all the time ... It was funny, at the end of the loop, there was some "interesting looking" stuff, and a frame at the end that stayed up for a while with a text that said something like "just try to code that "wise guy" .... I don't think That test loop was "designed" or was "supposed" to be "aired" ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Yep ... except the sync is fine for the local/syndicated programming and SD ABC feed, and I don't know if ABC sends a test signal these days on their HD feed during non-prime time ..

ABC used to send a "HD test loop" with HD clips of "101 damations", as well as a short "audio test", and HD clips the 98 Glenn shuttle launch when I manged to catch a few times when stations missed switching from HD feed after a show was over, but I'm not sure even that was sent all the time ... It was funny, at the end of the loop, there was some "interesting looking" stuff, and a frame at the end that stayed up for a while with a text that said something like "just try to code that "wise guy" .... I don't think That test loop was "designed" or was "supposed" to be "aired" ...

yes i believe it also had a clip of monsters inc and some footage of good morning america

A/V sync is right on the money currently at 8:11pm for HD "lost" on WKEF-DT ...

I noticed they were running SD feed at first, not sure for how long, or when they switched to HD if it was because someone called them or because someone there was working on the A/V sync issue ...

I'm flipping back and forth between the Local HD production for UC game on WXIX Cincy+HD Lost on WKEF, as I couldn't decide what I should record and what I should watch LOL ...

Jeff, i'm watching Smallville

But if the sync is fixed, i'm guessing my message got through to the engineers

Well, I was sort of thinking mine may have gotten through as well -- since it was also a little better last night ;)

Anyway -- Bad news ... WKEF-DT Audio/Video sync is back off again at 8:23pm .... Seems apparent that they are aware of the issue, but I know it can be difficult for them to monitor the audio feeds from control room for both the digital and analog station(s) ...

update 8:35~8:38pm: I'm almost afraid to say anything, LOL .. audio/video sync is correct again from WKEF-DT ... Fingers crossed it will stay that way this time ...

something's up with my TWC DVR

it recorded something between 8-9:03 and it says lost, but when i play it i get nothing..what the hell

now alias is recording fine..but the sync is WAY off and i mean way off..not even close.. it's like dubbed kung fu movie right now

Yeah, Sync was good on WKEF-DT from some point before 8:35 and The end of Lost, then as soon as Alias started it was off again as Rakesh reported, throughout the program+it's still off during ABC upconvert after 10pm(which I expect they are getting off ABC "HD feed", upconverted at network level) -- except during the local ad break at approx 9:22pm ...

I don't know if it has anything to do with your DVR recording, but the EPG info WKEF-DT is sending via PSIP is both either not present and not "correct" ... for instance, For "Alias", it just said "DTV program" 9:00-9:30pm, whearas on WCPO-DT it said "Alias", "9:03 pm~10:02pm" .. I didn't look at what it said for "lost" ...

Switching back and forth between the two as often as I did tonight, The PQ difference between WCPO-DT's 1280x360 "effective" resolution they are sending and true HD from WKEF-DT was quite striking though ... I guess on the one hand it's understandable that some folks in Cincy who can only see WCPO-DT don't "notice" how bad WCPO-DT's PQ and "jaggies" are since they don't have a 2nd source of ABC HD to compare to, but on the other hand, as you would expect if you are losing that much detail it of course looks like crap on WCPO-DT as compared to HD from WKEF-DT ... If only the folks at WCPO would stick up a antenna and point it north and compare, maybe they'd finally get around to realizing how bad their problem is ....


Update: -- concerning WKEF-DT's "Video Freezes problem" I came across This thread, which I find a bit interesting - it seems WKEF-DT is NOT the only station having this problem : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=510435

Note however that the video freezes on WKEF-DT(where the audio continues) were occuring about 2x per hour on average with NBC HD as well when they were NBC affiliate(back to sometime in 02 or 03 as I recall), and also note that that they do NOT occur from WCPO-DT during ABC HD feed ...

Well, noticed the audio/video sync was still off on WKEF-DT last night during prime time and ABC programming -- Which wasn't sent HD by ABC, but I have a feeling they were/are using(as they should) the ABC HD "feed" during primetime with SD upconverted to 720p at network level ... Since the sync during local/syndicated programming has been fine when I've checked it ..

------------

Also notice that WPTD-DT is not remapping to 16.x today via PSIP. I'm getting everything fine from them currently however on 58.2~58.6. I assume they are working on PID+PSIP issues, as WPTO-DT is not remapping currently either, but, WPTO-DT is not currently sending anything that is decodable by either receiver here, except probably MPEGII PAT info to "look" at 28.3 as their first subchannel, instead of 28.2 as was the case previously and up until about 20 minutes ago or so ....

--------------------------

Update 9:45pm :

WPTD-DT now remapping to 16.x

WKEF-DT Audio/Video Sync during ABC HD currently pretty close to being right on both receivers here ... When I checked it a bit earlier this evening it was off quite a bit however ... Arrgh ... It's way off again at 9:53 ...

WHIO-DT A/V sync is currently off during HD "JAG" however ... just enough to be annoying ...

WHIO-DT's sync problem didn't start to be a problem until around the time they starting doing DD 5.1, but otherwise I have to wonder why we've went around 3 years(since the stations first came on air, and with HD) without any significant sync problems from the local stations, now all of a sudden there are two stations having problems with it ...

Where'd everybody go ?

Notice Fox HD for NASCAR looks good from WXIX-DT Cincinnati 1~1:25pm Today... WRGT-DT on the other hand is sending a 4x3 SD upconvert ...

Has anyone else noticed that WRGT and WKEF have not passed the HD feeds for the last two days. Is this just an OTA issue or are TWC subs having the same issue?

Probably the best thing to do is to call the station's newsroom and ask them to pass the message to master control to switch to HD feed ....

Digital Stations send the same video/audio to TW as they do OTA, it comes out of the same HD encoder. Something a bit different did happen on a couple of weekends when TW took a SD feed from WRGT(I think from the analog station) for some odd reason, and TW digital/HD folks got SD for a couple of weekends while OTA folks got HD for NFL HD football/etc.

WKEF-DT is sending "The Green Mile" in HD currently. I didn't check ABC programming last night. Audio sync has been "variable"(they dropped to SD once tonight for a short period, looks like they may be adjusting things, occasionally) this evening, at times it's been off, at times it's been fine(such as currently).

I'm not sure for how long WRGT-DT has been "stuck" on the Fox SD feed, instead of the FOX HD feed, I think I checked O.C. on WRGT-DT Thur night and it was HD, and then as I noted above, Nex time I checked them they were sending NASCAR SD this afternoon whereas it was HD from WXIX-DT Fox Cincinnati.

All non-HD Fox programming is also upconverted by Fox at network level and sent over their HD feed -- When the "HD feed" from Fox is active(which SHOULD be the case anytime there is fox programming being aired on WRGT, even if the programming itself is not HD), you won't see the White Fox bug in the 4x3 area, you'll see the "Fox 45" bug in the far right lower side of 16x9 area, outside of 4x3 "safe" area ....

From what I understand, MOST stations(like WXIX-DT Cincinnati) have it set up so "easily" automated switching ALLWAYS occurs to FOX HD feed ... Fox "designed" their HD distribution system in place at the affiliates, in part so stations would "supposedly" not miss the HD feed if they set it up so switching for digital station to+from Fox HD feed "chases" analog master control ... With most Fox stations(and I believe this is what Fox recommends), it is set up so when master control switches the ANALOG station to network(which is usually an automated process, it should be at WRGT as well), the digital station automatically switches to the Fox HD feed ...

I don't know what WRGT is doing -- and you never know, I suppose it's possible they could be having problems or are "working on things/etc", and I expect all stations have a way to "switch" to FOX SD feed on digital station in case it's necessary for them to do so ... but this isn't the first time they've started "missing" HD on a Thursday or Friday night not to get it back until a bunch of folks called and pestered them about it(usually around the time of 1PM NFL HD sunday game) ....

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
WKEF-DT is sending "The Green Mile" in HD currently. And on Time Warner, we were getting HD for that movie too. Audio sync has been "variable"(they dropped to SD once tonight for a short period, looks like they may be adjusting things, occasionally) this evening, at times it's been off, at times it's been fine(such as currently). I thought I noticed a slight out-of-sync during The Green Mile *once*. If it did it more often, I think people are looking for it too hard..... I guess I tend to focus more on a person's face, their eyes in particular, instead of their mouth when they're speaking.

Anyone have a clue why some of the station identication spots on UPN 17 show "UPN 17-6"? Are they getting ready to provide HDTV. The final episodes of Star Trek Enterprise would certainly be nice in HD!


OT: Does TWC in Dayton (Beavercreek) transmit TV Guide's EPG data? I am toying with getting a Panasonic DMR-E500HS PVR/DVD Burner (yes, I know, not HD), but it would be a royal pain to use without the channel guide.

Thanks!

Don

Originally posted by hall
I thought I noticed a slight out-of-sync during The Green Mile *once*. If it did it more often, I think people are looking for it too hard..... I guess I tend to focus more on a person's face, their eyes in particular, instead of their mouth when they're speaking.

At times last night here the A/V sync during the movie was off as much as about 1/2 second, which is about the "average" that it has been off during ABC HD since last Friday .... You could tell they were adjusting it at times at the station, so different decoders might have especially handled their "adjustments" differently, and different decoders may be handling their A/V sync issue differently overall ..sometimes, for instance with most decoders if the A/V sync is off and it's "purely" a decoder issue you can often switch to another station+then back and it will be "Fixed"..

In any event, At one point around 9:30pm Last night they dropped to SD for a few seconds, after that for the most part the Sync was right on ....

Daytona 500 Pre race isn't in HD, so i called WRGT (263-4500), they said the prerace wouldn't be in HD but the race itself would be. I asked if they were having problems because Sat's race wasn't in HD either, they said they didn't realize that, and to call back when the race starts if it's not in HD.

Browerjs,

Fox HD for the prerace began at 1pm from WXIX-DT Cincinnati. See the Daytona 500 thread in programming area for more reports from others getting it in HD, beginning at 1pm ...

I *did* notice WRGT-DT looked like they might have tried to "switch to something else" a few minutes after 1, but nothing happened ..

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Browerjs,

Fox HD for the prerace began at 1pm from WXIX-DT Cincinnati. See the Daytona 500 thread in programming area for more reports from others getting it in HD, beginning at 1pm ...

I *did* notice WRGT-DT looked like they might have tried to "switch to something else" a few minutes after 1, but nothing happened ..

Yea i saw in the programming area that prerace is in HD across the country, but i'll wait till the race starts to call back.

Attached is a crappy blurry screenshot with digital camera of the Daytona 500 Prerace, in HD from WXIX-DT Cincinnati, but supposedly "not" in HD from Fox according to WRGT :rolleyes:

Maybe one of these days, when the stations realize the digital stations are an important part of their "livelihood", it might become important to them to provide good DTV/HD service to their viewers .... I suppose lots of calls from viewers(not just 2 or 3 folks) when HD is "missing"/etc might help spur them along a bit .... I in fact know of at least one occasion when it has(I can't say more than that, unfortunetly) .....

I called about 12:45 and got the same line form the newsroom. The prerace is not in HD but the race will be... The race is about to start and I am not convinced.

Edit: The race has started and no HD. Sigh... I guess I will give them a few minutes and call back. I have noticed the picture freeze a couple times like they are trying to do something... but who knows?

Anyone have the phone number? I'll call too!

I called when the pace car started, and they again told me when the race officially started it would be in HD. Right after the green flag dropped i called and they told me they had guys working on it and that FOX wasn't sending the HD feed. I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but I enjoy watching the Daytona... I'm really gonna be upset if this isn't fixed by 24 tomorrow night as it has the best DD5.1 on television.

Originally posted by Kerbs
Anyone have the phone number? I'll call too! \
937-263-4500

I just called back and they said they are bringing in an engineer to try to fix it.

Two funny things:

The girl asked me if I had checked both channels: 45-1 and 30.1

Then she asked if I could get Fox19 at all!!!!

So funny

I called in as well during the prerace and they said that the race was in HD. The race started and no HD so I called back to the newsroom. The guy said he would check something. Now the signal is completely down.

I just called and the gentleman ask me the same question....45.1 or 30.1? I told him it didn't make a difference and he also said they had an engineer coming in to look at the problem.

John

ABC22 and Fox45 have to be the two worst stations in Dayton with HD....!!!

Originally posted by reast
I called in as well during the prerace and they said that the race was in HD. The race started and no HD so I called back to the newsroom. The guy said he would check something. Now the signal is completely down.

Yea, when they came back from commercial no signal at all, to me that's good news though... At least they are working on it.

Their both managed by the same company!

Nuff said,
John

Its back now but no HD. This stinks!

Originally posted by reast
ABC22 and Fox45 have to be the two worst stations in Dayton with HD....!!!

I'll give WRGT a mulligan, this is their first major problem with HD... They did get the first game of the WS fixed rather quickly...

Did you see the measuring display or something? Looks like they are working on it.

What I don't understand is with such a big event like the Daytona 500, you think they would make sure that they get it right when it comes to the HD broadcast! ABC did the same thing with the Rose Bowl Parade and never did get it fixed.

Originally posted by browerjs
this is their first major problem with HD...

Not really. For instance, this is about the 5th or 6th weekend since september(OTA or cable) that FOX HD(or SD upconverts off the FOX HD feed, which FOX sends for ALL their programming, not just HD - Again, it won't have the white "Fox" bug in the 4x3 area if it's coming off the HD feed, the "FOX 45" local splicer inserted bug on far right lower side of 16x9 area is used instead - while the commands to insert the bug come from FOX, the bug is inserted by the local FOX HD splicer) began to be "missing" from WRGT-DT Thursday or Friday, and they didn't figure it out(and they only figured it out because a bunch of folks called them when NFL HD was missing) until Sunday afternoon(Fox NEWS sunday is sent by Fox in WS every week BTW, that's another way to tell if they are "messed up" or not) ....

This is, however the first time I recall seeing them "try" to switch to FOX HD feed off the splicer however with nothing but a non-decodable signal resulting.

IF they would have been paying proper attention to their digital station, they would have noticed there was a problem probably by Friday, but definitely by yesterday, for instancewith the NASCAR race that was HD on WXIX Cincinnati, and SD from the FOX SD feed(the same one that feeds the analog station) from WRGT .... Same thing with the sync problem from WKEF-DT, which started occuring over a week ago during ABC HD ...

My signal is off again. Looks like they are working on it during the commercials.

Anyone call in to get an update?

Oh, BTW I have a receiver here that lets me turn the PSIP stuff off completely and which relies on MPEG2 PAT/PMT PID's/etc for the program stream info instead of the PSIP info the stations are sending ... That's probalby what they were wondering about when they asked Jon about 30.1 or 45.1 ...

Doesn't matter, it still won't decode on 30 presently when they are "trying" to feed through the FOX HD feed from the splicer, the SD(when they are sending it) is fine, though ... FOX HD from WXIX-DT Cincinnati has been just fine all afternoon so far ...

It's on... it's on... it's gone... it's on... it's gone

Its working!!!!!!

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HD is ON!

It seems that they are having an issue with the video feed from the splicer. I noticed that the 5.1 audio track was coming on for a few seconds, then dropping back to PL II. The 5.1 audio is going fine now, hopefully they can get the video straightened out soon.

YES!!!!!!

Seems we have a number of new "members" to the Dayton-area HD club. :) Errr, add Lima to that, of course....

i really hope the wkef audio sync is fixed

alias was barely watchable on my dvr...somehow, i made it all the way through

Bad news Rakesh ... HD Desperate Housewives looks like a Kung fu movie on WKEF-DT so far (9-9:08pm) ....

surprise, surprise .....

I take it sine Hall reported not getting "noticable" sync problems from WKEF+TW, it's not happening(Since Fri 2/11/05 during most ABC HD) with at least some of TW's STB's/DVR's/etc for some reason?

Thanks,

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
I take it sine Hall reported not getting "noticable" sync problems from WKEF+TW, it's not happening(Since Fri 2/11/05 during most ABC HD) with at least some of TW's STB's/DVR's/etc for some reason? I doubt that having TW or a TW STB helps or makes any difference. Granted, with DVRs the audio and video often get out of sync during playback but a quick "Pause, Play" or "8-sec RW" normally fixes that. This is a box issue, not a source issue. When this happens, it's by no means a "slight" out-of-sync either, it's usually *bad*. :)

For those with TW and the 8000HD (HD-DVR) I've found that rebooting the box at least once a week really cuts down on it occuring.

Anyone pick up an 8300HD yet, assuming they're available ??

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Bad news Rakesh ... HD Desperate Housewives looks like a Kung fu movie on WKEF-DT so far (9-9:08pm) ....

surprise, surprise .....

I take it sine Hall reported not getting "noticable" sync problems from WKEF+TW, it's not happening(Since Fri 2/11/05 during most ABC HD) with at least some of TW's STB's/DVR's/etc for some reason?

Thanks,

:(

any suggestions on how we can get it fixed?? they have no "engineering" option on their switchboard

I'm gonna check boston legal OTA to see if it is just as bad

i'm currently watching the all star game on TNT so everything on ABC is getting dvr'd

whoa boston legal looks perfect right now..OTA

gotta check TWC

Ok, it is fine OTA but the sync is off on TWC

Hall,

We've come across MANY issues which have sometimes been decoder model specific. So, Since you SAID you did not see a sync issue I was curious if anyone else using the same equipment you are was also seeing/not the problem ....

This sync issue with them is VERY bad .... When the mouth moves 1/2 second after the audio or vice versa, it's bad ... If that is not "bad" in your opinion, I don't know what to tell you ...

Rakesh,

Yeah .. noticed same thing here(OTA) you are getting ... HD desperate housewives Audio/video sync was way off every time I checked it - all the way up to a few minutes before 10, and sync during Boston Legal has been just fine ...

Update: Aargh .. Of course, just around the time I sent this post(10:30), next time I checked it WKEF-DT Audio sync is off again... Not quite as bad as it was earlier yet though ...

Update2: Checked it again at 10:55 and Sync is fine again on WKEF-DT, don't know for how long ...

Originally posted by Rakesh.S
:(

any suggestions on how we can get it fixed??


I would imagine the same way the Daytona 500 got "fixed" today should probably work if nothing else will ... meaning, lots of folks contacting them whenever there is a problem .... If the analog goes down they are used to the switchboard "lighting up", I guess sometimes they need the same thing to happen whenever the digital station has problems ...

Originally posted by Rakesh.S
they have no "engineering" option on their switchboard


The way to do it after "normal" business hours is to call their newsroom and ask them to pass the message to master control or the "tech on duty"/etc ... They used to have a seperate newsroom number listed on their website, but I think you get through it via a "touch tone" menu item now ...

Any means of contacting them "should" theoretically work however -- at least if a good number of folks try to contact them --- although it doesn't seem emails are a good way to contact many stations these days ... As a "last resort", send snail mail, that should DEFINITELY get read, and it should defintetly go in the stations public file ...

I do know the WKEF engineers USED to monitor this thread, but I'm not so sure that is the case anymore ....

Contacting "MrDTV" at Sinclair has also worked for me in the past when nothing else seemed to work in my first attempts to contact WKEF/WRGT concerning a problem they were having back at that time ...

What I was trying to say was if the source is out of sync, I didn't think the model of STB would make a difference.

And if the audio and video are a 1/2 second out of sync, yeah, I would call that bad. If it's only out of sync to the point that you have to be explicity looking for it, that's different and I can/will probably live with it.

Well see that's the thing. Only 3 people have reported seeing their sync problem here.

I'm quite sure it's the source, since we have those 3 people, and it's out of sync(the same) on both my receivers here(and switching to other channels then back doesn't fix it), but I was hoping more folks would report they were seeing the issue(especially as I said, I know their engineers at least USED to monitor this thread), as well as contacting the station about it, so THEY know it's not just an issue effecting a few boxes/people ...

Originally posted by hall
Seems we have a number of new "members" to the Dayton-area HD club. :) Errr, add Lima to that, of course....

I'll be now monitoring this thread as I just recently installed a new RS OTA to pull in the Dayton stations. I started out watching the Daytona 500 yesterday at 1:00 until I realized channel 19-1 out of Cincinnati was broadcasting even the pre-race program in HD. I noticed Fox eventually fixed their problem later in the afternoon. Anyways I look forward to contributing to the Dayton thread now as well as the Cincinnati thread.

I have the sync problem and it does look like a badly dubbed kung fu movie. :p

Video freezes were running rampant last night while the lady was watching Extreme Makeover home edition. She got frustrated and switched to the analog cable feed.

I also have the sync problem... trying to watch is almost comical sometimes...

We've got Extreme Makeover: Home Edition on the DVR waiting to watch. It's NOT an HD program though, so does that matter ??

When it comes to "reporting" problems to the stations when they happen, we have to leave that to others. We watch almost nothing live anymore. We watched Third Watch, Friday's episode, last night. Still have CSI:Miami from last Mon or Tues to watch. Cold Case from *last* Sunday + Cold Case from last night..... :) Oh, there's more too.

folks, give WKEF a call

937.263.4500

Ask to be transferred to engineering and leave a voicemail or if you actually get someone on the line from engineering, ask -

1. sync issue
2. video freezes
3. 5.1 audio

like Jeff said, the more people that call in and complain, the sooner the issue(s) gets fixed.

I'm having the same problem here. Lost, Alias, and NYPD Blue are all terribly out of sync.

I have noticed that my receiver is not detecting the digital audio stream and staying in Pro Logic mode.

Originally posted by hall
We've got Extreme Makeover: Home Edition on the DVR waiting to watch. It's NOT an HD program though, so does that matter ??


Well, I've seen it a couple of times in the past week+1/2 during ABC SD programming as well as HD, but not on any of their local/Syndicated programming - Even a local Ad break at 9:22pm last wed night during HD Alias was sync'ed just fine, even though ABC HD+the national ads/upconverts had the sync problem. And, I've also seen it "ok" during ABC SD programming.

Just speculation, but where the ABC SD is concerned, I think for the most part whether the Sync issue is there or not probably depends upon what feed WKEF-DT is sending at the time to provide us with the ABC SD programming. In addition to (#1) the "standard" SD feed stations use from ABC to feed SD to their analog station(and sometimes the digital station which would also go through WKEF-DT's upconverter so it is "spit out" at 720p with black bars on the side), I believe ABC(as most networks do) also sends (#2) for all their "SD only" primetime programming upconverted to 720p at the network level over the same HD feed the ABC HD programming "comes from" ... This makes it easier for stations to "flip the switch" to the HD feed during all prime time, and not have to switch back and forth between feeds based on what ABC sends in SD or HD ... But, some stations make those "switches" anyway -- and for instance, a ABC station could have just "waited" until 9pm last night before switching to HD feed, if/since they know the 8pm show wasn't provided in HD by ABC ...

So, then, my guess is, if WKEF-DT was sending(#1) as described above at the time last night during Extreme makeover, you probably won't see the problem, but, if it was (#2) as described above, unless they had "adusted it"/etc,(and it has been fine at certian times during even ABC HD as we've reported - at least OTA, such as during the first part of "Boston Legal" last night), then it will probably be out of sync ...

Originally posted by bshow456
I have noticed that my receiver is not detecting the digital audio stream and staying in Pro Logic mode.

WKEF-DT is sending Dolby digital 2.0 audio stream, they don't have DD 5.1 capablity as of yet. Pro-logic II decoding can be used for matrixed surround sound, that's probably what your receiver is "defaulting to" for DD 2.0, as is probably the case for analog audio sources as well. It's not actually possible for a digital TV station to send "analog audio" -- .

For stations to upgrade to DD 5.1 capability, last I heard, it's about a 5 figure expenditure for them. One exception is Fox, because of the way they send Fox HD/digital programming via the splicer system, the station doesn't even have to have DD 5.1 capability for DD 5.1 audio to be "passed right through" to your decoder directly from Fox - The FOX HD video is also encoded at network level, and because of the Fox HD splicer system in place at the affiliate, it doesn't get decoded again until it reaches Your receiver = What the splicer system does is "splice in" the HD network feed, and allows it to effectively "bypass" the HD encoder at the station that is used for local programming(along with a upconverter to upconvert the local/syndicated SD to 720p) .... It doesn't work that way from most other networks, including ABC -- in which case The local affiliate has to decode/decompress the network feed to a HD-SDI signal(uncompressed HD is about 1.5Gb/s) and audio/video streams they receive off the satellite, "process" the audio video for proper "sync"/etc, and then reencode it with encoders at the station before sending it to us, where it is again decoded on our end ....

Now, I had also heard that ABC is currently in the process of "upgrading" all it's affiliates to new HD distribution equipment/etc ... I believe they started this process with the west coast affiliates a couple months ago, and are working their way "east" -- or something similiar ... which I'd think means #1). Eventually, they'll get to the ABC affiliates in our area -- but probably not for quite some time ... Maybe if we are lucky by the end of the year ... and MAYBE #2). Depending upon what sort of changes ABC is making to their HD distribution system(and I'm certianly not "privy" to those details), it might not make a lot of sense for stations to "upgrade" to equipment now(even those that may need some "upgrades") that may be useless after ABC does its upgrades ... that's just speculation though ....

We watched Extreme Makeover a little bit ago and no out-of-sync issues. My wife has Desperate Housewives DVR'd and I'll ask her to pay attention for it (I don't watch the show).

Originally posted by hall
My wife has Desperate Housewives DVR'd and I'll ask her to pay attention for it (I don't watch the show).

Now that's not right. Have you seen the women on that show? :D

Yes, I'm well aware of the women on the show. The only one that really interests me is "Eve". My wife has told me it's a lot like a daytime soap, which she knows I refuse to watch. Now, I go sit down and try and watch "DH", with those four or so "chicks" on it and she'll check what I'm looking at everytime one is on-screen ! :D

Originally posted by hall
We watched Extreme Makeover a little bit ago and no out-of-sync issues.


And it's fine tonight as well, not unexpected since its probably coming from the "standard" ABC SD feed, OR it just hasn't "messed up yet" ... It has been "OK" for some extended periods of time even during ABC HD, such as during portions of "The Green Mile" on sunday night, and "Boston Legal" last night ...

Anyone notice that FOX WRTG didnt broadcast the NASCAR race in HD? I called the station about 1 minute before the race and was told that the pre game show was not being sent in HD but that as soon as the race started it would switch.

While I had him on the phone, I checked and was able to get Fox from cincy in HD just fine, I told him this and he said he knew, but that it would switch.

It never did. Anyone else call and complain?

LOL ... Oh me ...

tiggermahnh,

WRGT-DT certianly missed all the HD from Saturday's NASCAR race, they however, did manage to provide HD for Daytona 500 from 3:15pm until end of race yesterday ...

See the last post on Page 108 of this thread through the 7th post of page 110 of this thread for more details .... You'll find you weren't the only one that called them about it ...

tiggermanh wrote:

"It never did. Anyone else call and complain?"

Now that is good comedy! :)

bucknut,
Are you part of bucknuts.com?

GO BUCKS

sync looks ok tonight

switch didn't flip ..called it in at 8:20...*sigh*

Aside from being a HUGE OSU fan I am in no way associated with bucknuts.com. Only 192 days to go!!! To keep this related to HD... The Bucks were not in HD this football season. In fact, the only time they may have been was in Wisconsin two years ago. Unfortunately I did not have my HD projector back then. It would be sweet if ABC broadcasts some regional, or at least one premiere game in HD this season. But then I am sure WKEF would forget to flip the switch, or move the satellite dish, sort of like New Year's day. :)

Originally posted by Rakesh.S
sync looks ok tonight


First chance I've had to check it, sync looks fine here from WKEF-DT at 9:35pm during "according to jim" HD ... Fingers crossed it's a "permanent" fix ....If so, I'll soon have to send their engineer's a thank you note and hope it gets read .... ;)

bucknut,
the thing that really got me is that the tOSU vs. osu game was not in HD on ESPN. Every other bowl game on ESPN surrounding Dec 26th was in HD except for the Bucks. Another stab at tOSU from ESPN.

Originally posted by breedingamies
bucknut,
the thing that really got me is that the tOSU vs. osu game was not in HD on ESPN. Every other bowl game on ESPN surrounding Dec 26th was in HD except for the Bucks. Another stab at tOSU from ESPN.

You are right! There is a vast conspiracy by the TV execs at ESPN to keep Ohio State off HDTV.!

Give me a break, they had set the HD schedule months in advance before any of the matchups had been set, and that game was not planned to have HD.

I was wondering if there was anyone else on this board that also visits Bucknuts. Good to see ya around. As far as HD goes I agree that the Bucks get screwed! ESPN sure loves Wisconsin tho!:mad:

Any word on Dayton NBC and TWC?

Originally posted by jenkinswoody
Any word on Dayton NBC and TWC? As of 2/4/05, I was told this:

"At the present time I have no updates on when we might add WB HD or WDTN NBC – HD."

This is from a contact at TW (not a CSR or tech).

Has anyone been able to decode WKEF-DT Today/Tonight? (sat 2/26)

They are in "blank screen mode" here on both my receivers since first time I checked it around 3pm ... don't think it's a PSIP issue, as DTC-100 won't decode anything with PSIP stuff turned off on it, in which case it just relies on MPEGII info from PAT/PMT PID's for the program streams.

Plenty of signal from WKEF-DT, and I seem to be getting VCT info for major/minor channel numbers on the zenith receiver as it "shows" the signal on the remapped channel #(22-1) as well as the RF channel (51), but that's about it.

From what it looks like from here, It looks like what would probably happen if their STL was down, could be a number of other problems as well, I suppose ... unless some boxes out there are able to decode them tonight, you'd think they would have noticed by now if anyone there is actually monitoring the DTV station as one would think they SHOULD be doing in some shape or form by this stage of the DTV transistion game ...

Hope noone was trying to watch HD "Forrest Gump" from them tonight ...It's HD+OAR from ABC ... ... Wonder if they'll get if fixed before HD Oscars tomorrow night?

WKEF is a blank screen on cable too

I'm getting WKEF no problem analog and digital no problem. OTA

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Hope noone was trying to watch HD "Forrest Gump" from them tonight ...It's HD+OAR from ABC ... ... No picture here either (just like Rakesh, on cable). My wife turned the TV to analog 22, so I just suggested we get the DVD out. :D

Anyone else using OTA getting anything besides "blank screen mode" and Plenty of signal from WKEF-DT ?

Originally posted by dusterscott
I'm getting WKEF no problem analog and digital no problem. OTA

Hmmm ... Well, unless it's a receiver specific issue(and both of mine aren't working with it), It doesn't look like to me that the digital station(OTA here)is sending anything that is decodable .... The analog station is fine, but are you sure you are receiving the digital station OTA and not the feed from the analog station via Satellite LIL instead ?

HD Forrest Gump was sent by ABC in 2.35:1 Aspect Ratio last night, is that what you saw on WKEF-DT 51(22-1 remapped) OTA digital? ...

If you are sure you are getting the digital station just fine OTA, what receiver did you say you have?

Thanks,

P.S. - WKEF-DT still in Blank screen mode at 10:10am Sunday -- So, It doesn't seem to look good at this point for HD oscars tonight from them .... I don't know if a lot of calls will help them "fix" it this time or not ...

I just checked again and I'm still getting WDEF-DT (channel 22-1 OTA). This is definitely OTA. Now that I'm getting locals out of Cincinnati and Dayton OTA, I've cancelled locals through satellite. I've got the Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver. I didn't watch Forrest Gump last night - I just checked to see if I was getting the station.

Going back to WKEF's out-of-sync issue, my wife was watching the 2/20 episode of Desperate Housewives and it was HORRIBLE !! As mentioned, it was NOT a slight out-of-sync, but some guessed a 1/2 second. I looked back and forth between the TV and my wife and she says "I can't get it in-sync ! I've tried !". :D

Hall,

They did get the sync issue fixed, last week - I think they had it fixed by tuesday(don't remember), it was defintely fixed by Wed night. I said 1/2 second, but that was a bit of an exaggeration(not a guess ;) , as you kept saying we were probably complaining about something you really had to "look for" ... It was off more like several 10's or a couple of hundred ms ...

Anyway, during that HD UFO thing on Thursday, in the first 30 minutes of it especially I did notice more video freezes happening from them than normal ...

Originally posted by dusterscott
I just checked again and I'm still getting WDEF-DT (channel 22-1 OTA). This is definitely OTA. Now that I'm getting locals out of Cincinnati and Dayton OTA, I've cancelled locals through satellite. I've got the Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver. I didn't watch Forrest Gump last night - I just checked to see if I was getting the station.

Thanks for doublechecking it. Very strange -- I don't think I've ever seen this happen before ...

If it weren't for DTC-100 here not being able to decode them with the PSIP/Channel remapping stuff turned off(for instance, they actually transmit on channel 51, they send channel remapping info to 22-1 to make them "appear" to be "next to" their analog station), I'd probably think it was a "receiver model specific" PSIP issue they're having ...

----------------

What is everyone else OTA wise(and what receiver are you using) getting from WKEF-DT currently?

Perhaps we can send them a list of which receivers are effected and which aren't that may help them diagnose the problem. Since it isn't coming through on cable, either, evidently whatever the cableco is using at the headend isn't working either, although I had figured TW probably got the signal from WKEF-DT via fiber, which shouldn't be an issue if this is an issue that is only effecting certian models of OTA receivers ...

Thanks,

I don't have a signal meter, but I'm getting a blank screen OTA as well..

I suppose if there are OTA receivers out there that are decoding WKEF-DT currently, for those that aren't able to decode their datastreams currrently, it might be worth a shot to try a channel rescan -- I tried it, and it didn't work here, however - Update: However, the channel rescan did clear the receivers VCT, and I can no longer see an indication of signal on their virtual channel(22-1), only see it now if I tune to WKEF-DT actual channel (51). Since I have remapping to virtual channels turned OFF on the DTC-100, it only sees it on 51, anyway.

Anyway --- The RF 8VSB signal seems just fine, as it allways is here. Attached is screenshot of what I'm getting from them currently(and all the time) on the Zenith's signal quality meter. About a steady 33% reading(a little bit to the left of "N" in normal) is all that is required for a signal lock and perfect DTV reception.

No WKEF here for the last two days either. I'm also getting a strong signal. I'm getting OTA with an ATI HDTV tuner card which I think uses a tuner made by Phillips.

I've had problems with WKEF the last couple of days also. Just checked and get a "No Signal" msg from my Samsung 351 (OTA). Entering 51 as channel gives remap to 22-1 & PSIP info with date & time, thogh that may be a "memory" feature of my tuner.

Carl

I just called WKEF newsroom and told them I'd like to be able to watch oscars tonight in HD but was having problems with their digital station .... The receptionist knew what I was going to say before I was actually able to finish that sentence :)

She said they have an engineer there working on it now, and that they hope to get it working by sometime this mid-afternoon ....

Fingers crossed ....

My symptoms are slightly different, but surely related. I have TWC going directly into my Sony 42WE655's HD tuner (no cablecard, this is an unencrypted channel). Since the problem started, I've been able to tune 22.1 perfectly for exactly 5 seconds, and then it shows "no signal." If I change the channel and come back, it's the same thing--5 seconds, and then no signal.

Another data point. As of 1:20pm, I am able to get 22-1 with a Samsung 360. Does not disappear after 5 seconds.

Still no problems here as well. Sammy 360 receiver.

WKEF-DT is still blank screen mode on both receivers here.

I wonder if there are any other receivers which use/integrate D* EPG info for OTA "tuning" which are(or aren't) working for them, or if there are any Samsung OTA only receivers which are working ....

PGA golf on Wkef 22-1 coming in just fine OTA with D* Samsung 360. I was able to decode and watch Forrest Gump last night with no problems. OAR was very nice.

I'm now getting all of 8 seconds before the picture goes blank on WKEF. Just called the newsroom for an update and "the engineers are working on it as we speak."

I've been having problems all afternoon with my Samsung T151 OTA tuner and my TWC box for WKEF-DT. I just called the station and got the same the engineers are working on it and we don't know when it's gonna be fixed story. My fingers are crossed that the problem will be resolved prior to the Oscars.

Originally posted by hall
As of 2/4/05, I was told this:

"At the present time I have no updates on when we might add WB HD or WDTN NBC – HD."

This is from a contact at TW (not a CSR or tech).

Thanks for the info........

Hopefully, something will happen sometime:rolleyes: My OTA is only so-so...

well, unless folks call and complain, nothing is going to get done......

If it's just me calling every wednesday when they forget to flip the switch for Lost, no one at the station is really going to care :(

Around here, the only station that seems to be worth a darn is WBDT..They're doing a wonderful job

So what's that now...2 for 2 on award shows missed..Grammy's and The Oscars

I called WKEF too this evening to complain about lack of HD, they said they knew and were working on it.

WCPO (channel 9) out of cincy wasn't coming in, signal strength was 0 to random 19 or so. So nothing there. I was getting "signal" on 51, but nothing was being transmitted datawise, my receiver couldnt even decode the station ID.

What a bunch of crappy tv broadcasters we have around here. UGH

It was dead on my Samsung 165 box as well. Green light but the "no signal" indicator on the screen.

Fortunately I don't care about awards shows.

I may have finally beat it into my wife..... I saw the DVR recording light on and asked her what she was recording. She said the award show. I told her it's supposed to be on in HD and she told me "22 HD still isn't coming in".

My wife knows about HD too, but she is tired of me always having to monkey with it. Wether it be out of sync issues, no signal at all, or the local stations forgetting to flip the "Switch" to HD.

These broadcasters ought to be thankful that we're somewhat understanding of the whole process. If we unleashed our women on them, maybe they would have a new appreciation for how tolerant we've been. I know my girlfriend just about went ballistic last night in the time it took me to swing my antenna towards Columbus. She just wants it to work--doesn't care why there are dropouts, no picture or missed switches.

Someone needs to send in an editorial to the DDN, I about sat down and wrote one up yesterday eventhough my writing skills are horrible. Someone who has good writing skills and can get the point across with all the technical jargon out needs to write in. I'm guessing it could have more weight then a few people calling.

WKEF not being able to get the Oscars across in HD would be like WRGT not being able to send the Superbowl. I believe ABCs biggest ratings of the year come at the Oscars.

Originally posted by browerjs
Someone needs to send in an editorial to the DDN, I about sat down and wrote one up yesterday eventhough my writing skills are horrible. Someone who has good writing skills and can get the point across with all the technical jargon out needs to write in. I'm guessing it could have more weight then a few people calling.

Mine would never get printed since I would rip on WHIO for their poor picture quality due to multicast while I was at it. :D

Originally posted by 1450kHz
Mine would never get printed since I would rip on WHIO for their poor picture quality due to multicast while I was at it. :D

I would include that as well, along with syncing issues for WHIO and WKEF. WKEF missing the Academy Awards. WRGT missing the first two hours of the Daytona 500. And possibly the lack of WDTN and the WB on TWC.