Des Moines, IA - HDTV [Text View] - Page 10

Snagelpuss

10-29-06, 08:26 PM

Whats up with 13? Last night during SNL....I noticed that I can hear the crowd and effects, but the vocal was very low and sometimes not there at all. I thought, Oh no....my center speaker or amp has a problem. However, it did not happen on dvds or ANY other channel. Today I get home and fine that trying to watch nascar is a joke. In place of vocals....it's static. All other channels are fine....as are dvds or whatever. Anyone else notice this or is just me?

Same thing here, 13 good for first few minutes of SNL then crap sound. Nascar race the same way today. Glad to hear others with the same problem. First thing you think is that your equipment has a problem. Sounds like 13 has the problem.

Pellakin

10-29-06, 10:47 PM

Watching the Sunday night game (Dallas/Carolina) right now on 13.1, and after the last commercial break, I noticed that all I can hear is the sound coming from the game/crowd. This includes the refs, cheerleaders, line audibles, etc., and even the "swoosh" noises going to commercial/transitions.

All the announcer noise, including a sideline report from Andrea Kramer (sp?), is absent.

Switched up to regular Channel 13, and the annoucers are there and everything's fine.

It's actually kind of nice, as I'm not a big fan of John Madden and his assinine observations, but it is an issue.

mikel51

10-30-06, 08:28 PM

kc0bsn

10-30-06, 09:22 PM

Is anyone getting FOX HD through an indoor antenna in the Urbandale/Clive area?
I get all the locals fine (except when the upstairs neighbor's kids are running the DSM Marathon in the living room) with a silver sensor antenna sitting on my kitchen table at about 88th & Hickman. Granted, I am on a hill, but the antenna is several feet to the interior of an apartment with south & west facing windows.

Easy-E

10-30-06, 10:02 PM

Yeah, center channel was dead. At the same time, some odd noise was coming through my sub (which I have the high cut set pretty high on).

I have to wonder if this was a WHO problem. Has anybody seen anybody else mentioning this on any other city threads? I also monitor the CR, Denver, and Salt Lake City threads and nobody mention this problem there.

The same thing is going on tonight on Heroes. I just started to watch my TiVo recording and it's doing the same thing. I fast forwarded ahead to 30 minutes in and WHO took the signal to SD and got the sound back. By 8:45 they had HD restored with proper sound. Hopefully Friday Night Lights will be fine for the full hour. Guess I'll be watching Heroes on NBC.com tomorrow night (or downloading the show from torrentspy.com).

mikel51

10-31-06, 02:08 AM

The mediacom feed had the same issue

HDJeff

10-31-06, 11:08 AM

Is anyone getting FOX HD through an indoor antenna in the Urbandale/Clive area?
I setup my father-in-law's new HDTV and just used rabbit ears behind the TV. He gets all HD local channels and they are constistantly dependable. He lives in Urbandale just south of Patricia Dr on Hillsdale Dr, which is west of 86th and north of Hickman.

I wish I can get local channels in as good as he does. I live in WDM, in a low valley area, south of Fuller Dr and S. 35th St and I have my antenna (Channel Master) on my roof with a 10' mast and can't get all the channels. Channel 17.1, 13.1 and 5.1 is hit or miss. Channel 8.1 and 11.1 is always dependable for me.
Jeff

denyart

10-31-06, 02:50 PM

I don't agree with either company in this instance. I think Mediacom is ripping off their customers a little and I think Sinclair is trying to force something on Mediacom a little unfairly, but it will be for the lawyers to battle out that argument. In the meantime the consumer is left hanging. I would urge everyone to at least try an antenna feed to get Fox. I would hope you could go with a route that allows a return if it doesn't work. I would also like to take this oportunity to urge people to contact Fox and urge them to improve their signal to allow people to use an antenna and receive them more reliably. I think they are probably not interested in this, but it would be nice to see it happen. They don't get any increased revenue from us picking them out of the air for free, but eventually it is supposed to turn into advertising dollars for them. That has not really been there business plan in the past. They like getting as sweet of a cable and satellite deal as possible. I like being able to watch my local channels without needing to pay a cable or satellite bill. That is what the commercials are for. If the digital signals were good enough, they could come in crystal clear to almost the entire market and we could all enjoy some HD with no monthly fees. That is just my $0.02.

irs009

11-01-06, 12:57 PM

I listen to Mac's world on 98.3 FM, and they had a representative from Sinclair on the Air yesterday. Mac asked why they couldn't make a deal with Mediacom, what would it cost per consumer? Less than a dollar? Sinclair said significantly less than a dollar. Mac then asked less than fifty cents? Sinclair said significantly less than fifty cents.

Sinclair was promoting DirecTV throughout the show and urging people to call the DirecTV no. which he repeated many times.

Jack

denyart

11-01-06, 01:09 PM

Well, it is always a he said he said problem in these situations. Sinclair may be telling the truth, but I would not want to bet anything on that. Mediacom is not my favorite either. I just wish we had more local competiton besides satellite. Could you imagine what would happen in this situation if there were another cable company in DesMoines/Ankeny/Ames. Then maybe we would see some rational behavior (or at least have a different poison pill to take).

In other news, has onyone been receiving and watching much on the new KCWI 23-1 (UHF channel 56)? I can receiving it and watching it, but the picture skips sometimes. It seems to be unreliable signal. It goes from full signal to no signal all the time. It was kind of like the signal from channel 5 back when they were having problems. Has anyone else noticed that?

hasan

11-01-06, 01:52 PM

I'm anxiously awaiting for D* to send down the upgrade to turn OTA on in my HR20. It should be in a couple weeks. I'll report back how it works compared to direct viewing with my Sammy HL-R5667W.

On an unrelated note, D* has announced that the Des Moines market will be turned on for HD-Locals (MPEG-4) before the end of this year. (I'm MUCH more interested in OTA).

denyart

11-01-06, 02:03 PM

hasan

11-01-06, 07:12 PM

Using mpeg4 they could give a high quality reproduction of the OTA signal, but I am going to bet they will compress heavily enough that unless you are watching it on a 19" TV you will notice the loss of picture quality. I would agree with you that the OTA access is much more interesting. I wonder why they would turn your OTA tuner on when they could be selling you the same thing for a slight increase in your monthly payment (or do local HD rebroadcasts come for free with the local TV package?).

Still has anyone been watching KCWI-DT and noticed signal issues with them, or do I need to investigate my antenna and hardware? I would like it to be as reliable as the other local digital stations, but so far it is disappointing. It seems like they are either having problems, or they just don't always broadcast full power because there are times when I can record an entire hour show with no signal loss and other times when I can't watch for more than 2 minutes without some dropouts.

MPEG-4 has an entire host of issues (implementing it)...I dread it. Bit starvation is the other issue...and that ain't goin' away any time soon. HD-Locals are free.

I would never have gotten the HR20 without OTA being in it. The reason it's not on yet is not a conspiracy or marketing decision, they are testing it (actively). It should be released in the next couple weeks or so, and if so it will precede the availability of HD-Locals via sat.

23-1 actually disappeared for me (I think it was last night) for a while. I just checked it and it is only showing a 5 out of 10...it used to be a 7, so I think they are having problems. About a month ago, I was having very poor sigs from 5-1, bu t lately their signal is up to a 7.

Here are my current readings (on my Sammy HL-R5667W). I'm about 28 miles from the Alleman tower complex: (medium sized antenna on roof of 2nd floor, 40' feedline)

5-1 6 to 7/10
8-1 10/10
8-2 10/10
11-1 10/10
11-2 10/10
13-1 10/10
13-2 10/10
17-1 7 to 8/10
17-2 7 to 8/10
23-1 5/10
56-1 5/10

Signals have picked up across the board (except for 23-1/56-1), since the leaves are off the trees. 5-1 was running a 2 to 4 for several weeks during its problem period, and it had nothing to do with vegetation loss.

Pellakin

11-03-06, 11:18 AM

So is it illegal for mediacom to pipe in FOX from somewhere else if they can't cut a deal with Sinclair? I don't care very much about getting local ads or Fox local programming. I want Prison Break and I want 24--and I want them in HD. If there is truly free market economics at work, the cable companies should be able to cut deals with the network directly or with FOX stations from other locales. If the local station is free to make a deal with satellite to offer consumers $150 to switch from cable to satellite, then the cable company should be free to access programming from other stations providing the same content. This would truly be to the benefit of consumers to drive down their costs.

Perhaps I better mount an outside antenna. Is anyone getting FOX HD through an indoor antenna in the Urbandale/Clive area?

Well, as much as the US touts it's "free market" economy, we're not really. And that's good - there need to be consumer protections of some kind. The days of the Robber Barons is (largely) gone.

As for the antenna - I live just behind Jimmy's American Cafe off of 8th St. in WDM - I don't know where the tower is for Fox, but I get really good reception, and I'm using technology just this side of a coat hangar as an antenna.

Just for kicks, to see how reception was with the internal tuner on my TV, when I got my TV, I pulled out an old wire setup I had used as a radio antenna. It's basically the wires that USED to be wrapped around a plastic mold as an AM Tuner...I'd pulled them out and connected the 2 wire ends to a coax connecter - the kind that you screw the 2 wires down to the connector and then you can plug the connecter into the coax jack on the back of your TV. Each wire end is about 4 feet long and I just strung them behind my TV like rabbit ears. I actually have them run up the back of the TV and connect just behind the top of the TV, so you can't even see that they are there.

Anyway - I get...I think 9 digital signals through that "jimmy-rigged" indoor antenna where I am. It's been a while since I've set it up, so I may be wrong on how many HDTV signals I'm getting exactly, but OTA's of all the big ones come in fine, including Fox.

AbbeyRoad

11-03-06, 12:56 PM

From WHO

"You may have noticed that the surround sound channels have not been up to their normal standard in the last few days. Certain surround sound channels are not performing correctly due to an equipment failure. Replacements are on the way. You can expect your NBC High Definition experience to return with full surround sound in about two weeks. "

dline

11-03-06, 05:54 PM

(Originally posted in Cedar Rapids, edited for Des Moines)

Sinclair-Mediacom Dispute: UPDATE

Sinclair now says on its website (http://www.sbgi.net/press/release_2006112_181.shtml) that briefs in Mediacom's appeal may not be heard until late January, based on the 8th Circuit's scheduling order.

Based on this development, a solution to the stalemate rests solely with Mediacom and Sinclair, and Mediacom can't count on the courts to intervene.

In Cedar Rapids, where Sinclair owns KGAN-CBS 2, Mediacom has run full-page ads in The Gazette at least twice this week, and has expanded its Sinclair web page (www.befairsinclair.com) to include more information about its position. Last night Mediacom Cedar Rapids was seen running an anti-Sinclair ad several times on at least a couple of cable channels, though it used an outdated KGAN logo from several years ago.

KGAN, for its part, began advertising its DirecTV rebate offer both online and through an occasional crawl over programming. At times they've even dropped HD programming down to SD to run the crawl on the HD channel, even though anyone watching the HD channel isn't watching it from Mediacom. (Sinclair has never agreed to let Mediacom carry KGAN-DT.)

denyart

11-04-06, 11:39 PM

irs009

11-05-06, 05:10 PM

Fox 17.1 is starting to crawl DirecTV $150.00 back offer also.

dline

11-05-06, 05:51 PM

Everyone should just look at this from Mediacom's point of view. They are being forced to pay more for a channel they want because they need to get a bunch of channels they don't want....WAIT A MINUTE, that's what they do to their subscribers. Isn't that ironic?In a lot of cases, it's the content providers who are doing that to Mediacom -- they either require the cable company to take channel "Z" if they want to get channel "A", or force them to put a limited-interest channel like NFL Network on the basic tier so that even folks who couldn't give a whiff about football have to pay for it.

Just this year ESPN moved a few Iowa football games to ESPN-U and told Mediacom they had to buy the whole channel in order to get those games.

HDJeff

11-06-06, 09:47 AM

For those of you who do not like Fox17 broadcasting stretch SD content, I recommend emailing them to complain. I emailed the following to them:

I want to comment on the stretched SD content on your digital channel 17.1. You broadcast stretched SD content (i.e. news, Iowa football/basketball, etc.). The way you broadcast your SD content on your digital channel is horrible. When watching stretched SD content on a HDTV, the images are un-proportioned and blurry. I highly recommend broadcasting your SD content in normal 4x3 format and not stretch it to 16x9. No other local Des Moines stations do that and it makes watching SD content horrible. Normal SD content should always be broadcast in 4x3 format, and if a viewer wants to see it fill their 16x9 HDTV screen, then their TV can be set to stretch that content. Most viewers do not like a stretched image and won't set their TV to stretch the 4x3 image to 16x9 anyway.

I hope you highly consider my comments and start broadcasting SD content normally in 4x3 format.

I doubt just my email will make them change so if you are tired of them broadcasting SD content in stretched mode, I recommend you emailing them to. I emailed to comments@kdsm17.com, from their website.

Thanks.
Jeff

irs009

11-06-06, 12:06 PM

Jeff, for people using satellite, this is probably not an issue because you have to set the aspect ratio via the software and I doubt that anyone with a 16X9 TV on satellite watches in 4.3.

Also, My TV has a panorama setting which does a pretty good job of stretching 4X3 without too much distortion, but it does lose a bit of the picture.

Jack
Just my 2 cents.

dline

11-07-06, 02:04 AM

I doubt just my email will make them change so if you are tired of them broadcasting SD content in stretched mode, I recommend you emailing them to. I emailed to comments@kdsm17.com, from their website.
Interestingly, their sister station KGAN in Cedar Rapids stopped doing "the stretch" on 2-1 sometime within the past week. KFXA Fox 28, which is "joined at the hip" with KGAN and operates out of the same building, but has different owners, stopped stretching 28-1 long ago.

Both stations continue to operate a 4:3 simulcast on their "-2" subchannels. (The Tube is a subchannel of another station.)

HDJeff

11-07-06, 10:11 AM

Jeff, for people using satellite, this is probably not an issue because you have to set the aspect ratio via the software and I doubt that anyone with a 16X9 TV on satellite watches in 4.3.
Jack,
I do have satelite (E*) so when I do watch Fox17, I use E*'s SD local broadcast, but I'd rather use 17.1 OTA because it should be clearer, but them stretching the SD content makes for horrible PQ.
Also, My TV has a panorama setting which does a pretty good job of stretching 4X3 without too much distortion, but it does lose a bit of the picture.
That's why Fox17 should NOT stretch SD content. Many of today's TV's (specially the new Sharp Aquos D62 series) do a very good job of doing smart zoom, which is much better than Fox17's version of stretching.

My opinion is that anyone that is serious about quality PQ and watches any SD content on a HDTV does not like to stretch that content, because of the morphed look it gives.

denyart

11-07-06, 10:21 AM

While we're at it, does anyone really like black bars to be added? I am not sure if there is a way to broadcast just the 4:3 part of the material and let the receiver add in either black or gray (not likely since I have never seen a setting for this), but I appreciate how Iowa Public TV uses gray bars on their pillarboxed material (either they are sending that out or my media center PC is adding them). It is a good thing for those of us with burn-in capable displays. In many cases I actually do use stretch (a smarter stretch that attempts to keep aspect ratio a little better in the center of the image) to avoid leaving hours of black bars on the side of my display. If everything was widescreen originally or they used gray bars I wouldn't have to worry. I guess I could just get a LCD, LCoS or DLP and not have to worry about it. ;)

baniels

11-07-06, 11:47 AM

Anyone here from Fairfield?

ankenyclone

11-13-06, 08:04 PM

gutwrencher

11-13-06, 08:11 PM

Oh, thats great. So, what....I get to watch a crappy Iowa team play crappy ball and then watch PB in non-HD? Looks like this night has done gone to hell.

dline

11-13-06, 08:46 PM

This sucks. I could swear last year that KDSM showed the Iowa games on the cable feed, but the OTA feed was still the regular schedule. I remember being one of the lucky people who could actually watch Idol at the normal time. But now I flip on Fox looking for Prison Break, and its the stupid Iowa game. What gives?I can't speak for KDSM, but the word is that the networks have been cracking down on stations who pre-empt a show on SD only while airing the pre-empted show on HD. In general, a station can only air a network show one time. If KDSM were to air Prison Break "live" off the network in HD while delaying it to an alternate time for analog viewers (remember, they're still the majority for now, and they will want to see or tape the show sometime), that's not a simulcast -- it's a separate airing. Or so goes the thinking. Problem is, that poses a copyright and contract problem for the network and the station. So as long as they feel the Hawkeye contract is worth keeping -- and apparently they do -- they'll have to show Fox programs at an alternate time.

HDJeff

11-14-06, 09:50 AM

techtvman

11-14-06, 11:17 PM

yeah what was with that on monday they could have shown prison break in HD why didnt they, that was a dissapointment but at least i got to see the show

oh another thing anyone notice that CBS cuts the HD feed short at the end of a show. for example Numb3ers on CBS ch 8.1 twords the end it goes from HD to SD and the show still has at least 30sec to go, im thinking HEY dont cut this off to SD early, also they could at least show whats coming next week in HD as well.

Anyone else notice this or know why they cut there HD feed to SD early?

kc0bsn

11-15-06, 12:39 AM

The HD to SD switch you see is the control room taking control and getting ready for the news. The try to hold off on taking control for as long as they can, but sometimes there is a lot of stuff going on right before the news and the directors tend to play it safe by taking control early rather than forgetting to do it completely. (I'll make a mention, though, to see if we can't hang on for a few seconds more before the end of the show.)

With Prison Break, it truly is a network decision. The station is only allowed to broadcast an episode once...at least be glad that they pre-empt the whole shows rather than dumping in to the last 15 minutes. Typically, if that's that case, the network won't even let the local station reair the show since technically it did actually air (although it was only 1/4 the whole show.)

denyart

11-15-06, 09:35 AM

dline

11-15-06, 12:46 PM

I agree with the decision to air the show later in its entirety in HD. I wish the networks would realize the power of ATSC and allow stations to use it to their best advantage. By this I mean if a network would allow you to put your local sports on your analog channel (for the main viewing audience) and then also run that same sports show on a SD subchannel while still airing the main show on the HD channel and then lastly allowing you to rebroadcast the main show on the analog channel once more for the viewing audience who wanted to see it but missed it. This would allow digital cable and digital antenna viewers an advantage and more programming options. It would possibly even help the sale of OTA HDTV equipment. This sounds like it would be a win-win for the TV industry as a whole.
Unfortunately there are union and copyright issues involved in airing a show twice. The thinking is, if you're simulcasting, that's one airing, but if you air a show live on one stream and delay it on the other, that's two. So for now, HD shifting is the best we can hope for. Problem is, most stations don't have it yet, and contrary to popular belief it's not as easy as hooking up an HD TiVo.

When Feb. 17, 2009 comes, and analog ceases to exist, it will be a lot more feasible to shift a local event to a subchannel while keeping the network feed unchanged. But as it stands right now, few viewers can even tell you what a subchannel is, let alone get one, so a station with sports pretty much has to put them on the main channel for now.

cyclonedave

11-16-06, 11:27 PM

Is anyone having problems with KCCI-DT tonight?
I'm getting a good signal but no audio or video. I spoke with a friend who was having no problems viewing 8.1 from a satellite feed.

kc0bsn

11-16-06, 11:39 PM

We haven't seen any problems at the studio. I know there were some issues with Mediacom earlier tonight, though. Right now off-air is fine.

denyart

11-16-06, 11:54 PM

I have had problems with KCCI but I am not sure if it is their signal or my Media Center tuner or driver.

EDIT: to be more specific I can see 6 green bars (full signal on the meter) but I get "no TV signal detected" in Media Center. I had this problem a long time ago with channel 5, but I can only speculate that it may be a problem with their signal.

cyclonedave

11-17-06, 12:13 AM

I'm trying OTA signals only. Mediacom is not part of my issue.
8.1 signal strength of 88%.

kc0bsn

11-17-06, 12:32 AM

This may sound dumb, but can either of you try retuning at 31-1 and see if you get a better or the same result? Since more than one person has said something there may in fact be something odd going on.

Cyclonedave, what kind of receiver are you using? Thanks.

denyart

11-17-06, 01:08 AM

Just like 8-1 and 8-2 when I add 31-1 (on UHF channel 31) I get full signal according the digital TV signal strength meter in Media Center but I get nothing when I try to tune to it. My tuners are a VBOX DTA 150 and an ATI HDTV Wonder as it shows in my signature.

kc0bsn

11-17-06, 01:27 AM

Thanks denyart... Since it seems that people are still getting a good signal I'm leaning towards some errors in the datastream, and perhaps these PC decoders are a bit more susceptible to it. I went back through the threads, Dave, and I see you've got a 42" Magnavox plasma, so that sort of blows up my idea of it being a particular brand that's having the problem. I'll pass these notes on to the chief engineers by email tonight and maybe they'll have some ideas or at least look into it.
BTW, I don't get signatures on my PDA, so that's why I sometimes have to do a little extra digging to see what's up.

dgschoel

11-17-06, 03:15 AM

I also am having problems on all three of my MyHD cards.
Sometime 8-1 tunes in correctly (after a long delay), sometimes 8-1 gives me the programming from 8-2 (again after a long delay) most often I get full signal but no sound or picture. 8-2 does not give me picture or sound but I get full signal strength.

Tried retuning to no avail.

an update:

I have recordings of Survivor, CSI, and Shark from tonight. The files are all of appropriate size. When I try to view them using the MyHD App I get no sound or picture but it shows a running time and everything else looks ok.
So I tried mediaplayer classic, The files play just fine, I then tried to load the file into HDTV2MPEG. That gave an error "could not find a channel". So then I tried mpeg2repair. It could not find any PIDs. Now I have loaded the file into videoredo, the video and audio show up fine. I am doing a Quickstream fix.

The file now plays in the MyHD App and it also loads into HDTV2MPEG.

It appears something in the datastream is messed up which prevents some applications from getting the PID info.

kc0bsn

11-17-06, 03:34 AM

I'm beginning to come up with some theories on my own here... so bear with me on this. Have any of you who are having trouble recorded the straight transport stream from the cards? I'm basically looking for a file that gets created after the recording and will have either a "tp" or "ts" extension to it. If anyone could take the time to record a quick 10 second or so file from KCCI and then from another stream that does work I'd really appreciate it. You can then upload the file to a site like www.uploading.com and PM me with the link to the files. Then I can take a look at the files and see if something might be amiss in there.

dgschoel

11-17-06, 04:31 AM

files sent...

kc0bsn

11-17-06, 05:11 AM

Thanks dgschoel again for the files. I may have found one culprit, but just to be sure, could someone else also possibly grab a 10-15 second chunk from KCCI's stream and upload it for me. This can help me make sure it isn't just dg's card doing some weird stuff. For the record, the files I've got now came from MyHD cards, so it would be cool if someone with a different brand sent me the info. If not, that's ok, too. I think as long as they're coming from two different computers I should be okay.

cyclonedave

11-17-06, 08:18 AM

The requests for recording may be a little over my head. Hopefully denyart can get another recording uploaded. A few weeks ago, I did a rescan on my Magnavox and got 31.1 and 31.2 channels, but they would not remap back to 8.1 and 8.2. My PC card is an ATI HDTV Wonder.

kc0bsn

11-17-06, 08:23 AM

It's ok Dave. After I got home I checked it out, and my Toshiba LCD is also having trouble locking into an A/V program. It knows the correct resolution for everything, though. Like I said, I may have spotted the problem in the transport streams and sent the info on to someone who can help the situation and is actually awake and at the station during normal human hours.

cyclonedave

11-17-06, 08:25 AM

Thanks for the help.

kc0bsn

11-17-06, 03:27 PM

Thanks all for your help. The right pieces have been rebooted and 8.1/2 should now be working again via OTA and Mediacom. I did have some trouble retuning 8.1 on the cable side of my TV, but after I rescanned all the channels it was fine again. I think the problem with that is that my TV automagically removes from memory a station it doesn't think exists anymore. Your mileage may vary.

denyart

11-18-06, 01:18 AM

Well I have gotten 1081 and 1082 (that's what MCE2005 labels 8-1 and 8-2) back and they seem to be working fine. I did notice for the past week or so there were some occasional problems or hiccups with the signal on some of my 8-1 recordings. Now after this reboot it seems to have gone away. I wonder if those were little cues that things were about to go awry. Anyway, thanks for quick resolution.

tommygun_00

11-21-06, 05:03 PM

Anyone here when the Des moines locals will start showing on Dish or DirectTV? I get everything except 5.1 off my Antenna so I need to get that working. I have Dish and am thinking about upgrading to the HD package so I can have ESPN, etc. Anyone have any insight? Can you talk Dish into giving you the HD upgrade in equipment if you threaten to change to Direct? thanks for the help.

BTW... I'm 60 miles south of Des moines in Oskaloosa. 5.1 is spotty down here.

Thanks

HDJeff

11-21-06, 05:45 PM

Anyone here when the Des moines locals will start showing on Dish or DirectTV?I have Dish and have not heard anything as to when, but Direct will officially have it by end of year, however, I work with a gal that says she gets them already (in HD) through Direct. But its just not official. I can't remember what channels she said they actually come through on, and she is out until next week. I questioned it when she first told me a few weeks ago when she upgraded to HD but she said that she sees the KCCI-DT logo on kcci's digital channel through D*.

hasan

11-21-06, 07:54 PM

I have Dish and have not heard anything as to when, but Direct will officially have it by end of year, however, I work with a gal that says she gets them already (in HD) through Direct. But its just not official. I can't remember what channels she said they actually come through on, and she is out until next week. I questioned it when she first told me a few weeks ago when she upgraded to HD but she said that she sees the KCCI-DT logo on kcci's digital channel through D*.

I have DirecTV and the HD-Locals have not shown up for me yet. Maybe your friend has a "special deal". I'm awaiting two things at the same time:

1. OTA-HD to be enabled on the HR20 HD-DVR from D* (before Dec 1, maybe)

2. HD-Locals (as above), who knows when, but promised before year's end.

Easy-E

11-25-06, 09:25 PM

I have DirecTV and the HD-Locals have not shown up for me yet. Maybe your friend has a "special deal". I'm awaiting two things at the same time:

1. OTA-HD to be enabled on the HR20 HD-DVR from D* (before Dec 1, maybe)

2. HD-Locals (as above), who knows when, but promised before year's end.

Are we sure she's not receiving the locals via OTA? I have D* and get locals on my HR10-250 with two OTA antennas. It solved my issues with dropouts (mostly).

I'm waiting for the HR20 to solve it's numerous deficiencies (check out TivoCommunity.com or dbstalk.com for information). Until they have dual buffers and the OTA hardware enabled, I will not "downgrade" to a non-TiVo. Also, OTA signals are a better signal than what D* will be providing (plus will have a delay from "live" tv.).

HDJeff

11-27-06, 03:41 PM

Are we sure she's not receiving the locals via OTA?She said she's sure it's not OTA. She is using the new MPeg4 HD Receiver (non-DVR one)(don't know the model). She punches in 8.1 and it goes to KCCI-DT. Also she is able to see 8.2 (weather now channel). She says she definately has no antenna hooked up to the tv or to the receiver. Previous to her recent upgrade to her service to HD and the new HD receiver, she did have rabbit ears hooked up to the TV in order to get locals in HD. But once she got the new service and receiver, she said she now gets the locals through the satilite and so she packed away the rabbit ears. When she called to order the new HD service, she actually ordered an external antenna but when the installer came out he said they don't need it because the HD locals are coming through the dish already. That is all I know.

hasan

11-27-06, 07:22 PM

She said she's sure it's not OTA. She is using the new MPeg4 HD Receiver (non-DVR one)(don't know the model). She punches in 8.1 and it goes to KCCI-DT. Also she is able to see 8.2 (weather now channel). She says she definately has no antenna hooked up to the tv or to the receiver. Previous to her recent upgrade to her service to HD and the new HD receiver, she did have rabbit ears hooked up to the TV in order to get locals in HD. But once she got the new service and receiver, she said she now gets the locals through the satilite and so she packed away the rabbit ears. When she called to order the new HD service, she actually ordered an external antenna but when the installer came out he said they don't need it because the HD locals are coming through the dish already. That is all I know.

She must have some "special" deal, because they are NOT appearing in the GUIDE, nor can you directly key in 8-1...it produces "channel not found". There is no way they should be there, unless she has some special arrangement. Very confusing.

denyart

11-27-06, 08:23 PM

It may be that you need the newest equipment to get it. If you don't have the newer hardware many of the HD locals will be unavailable because they use a new encoding scheme (h.264 I think).

hasan

11-28-06, 08:37 AM

It may be that you need the newest equipment to get it. If you don't have the newer hardware many of the HD locals will be unavailable because they use a new encoding scheme (h.264 I think).

Nope, I have the latest and greatest...HR20 and AT-9 dish. No one else (other than this one mysterious source) is reporting MPEG-4/HD-Locals in the Des Moines area. Either someone thinks it's funny to mislead others, the person has no idea what they are talking about , or they for some strange reason got the only box in central Iowa with MPEG-4/HD-Locals turned on. Very strange indeed.

denyart

11-28-06, 10:14 AM

Does anyone have any direct way to ask this "source" what the picture quality is like with these supposed dish mpeg4 HD-locals vs. OTA reception?

HDJeff

11-29-06, 09:01 AM

Does anyone have any direct way to ask this "source" what the picture quality is like with these supposed dish mpeg4 HD-locals vs. OTA reception?I don't think she's HD savvy enough to compare the two. But she is smart enough to know that it is the digital side of locals coming into her D* dish.

Hasan - I'm not joking and nor is she joking with me. And she does know the difference between local SD channels and local HD channels. She says she has NO antenna hooked up (unless the installer hooked up one outside and didn't tell her or charge her for it, but she said that the installer wasn't going to install an OTA antenna). She does see the KCCI-DT as well as the other local's HD logos on their digital channels. So, to me that is coming through the dish, if there truly isn't an OTA antenna hooked up per what the installer told her. I'm just going by what she told me. And sorry, I'm not going to ask if I can come over to confirm.

It may be that you need the newest equipment to get it. If you don't have the newer hardware many of the HD locals will be unavailable because they use a new encoding scheme (h.264 I think).This is true. You do need the new mpeg4 receivers to get local HDs. That goes for D* and E*. And as far as I know E* isn't even close to doing local HD in the DM market, which sucks because that's what I have. Because my OTA is hit or miss on some stations because of where I live (low in a valley in south WDM).

tys90

11-29-06, 02:40 PM

dline

11-29-06, 03:44 PM

I could have sworn that WOI-DT (or "ABC-5" as they call themselves now) was available on Mediacom last I checked. However, it's definitely available over the air -- their "actual" channel is 59 and they transmit from a tower just north of Alleman.

The local Fox affiliate (KDSM) is owned by Sinclair Broadcasting, a company which has long demanded that cable companies pay them for retransmitting their digital signal and is beginning to demand more for their analog as well. As a result, you won't find Fox-HD on Mediacom, and at the end of this week you may not find Fox analog on cable either -- the current retransmission deal ends Friday and negotiations have been particularly acrimonious.

I also understand that QAM has a much lower tolerance for bad cable than analog, so if you have aging cable going to your set it may limit what channels you can receive digitally from the cable company.

dline

11-29-06, 03:53 PM

Speaking of Sinclair -- well, let's just say the forecast calls for a good chance of snow this Friday on Mediacom channel 6:

http://www.sbgi.net/press/release_20061129_184.shtml

(The sad truth is, there are probably a lot of good folks working for CBS 2 and Fox 17 who could really be hurt by this.)

hasan

11-29-06, 04:58 PM

[QUOTE=HDJeff]Hasan - I'm not joking and nor is she joking with me. And she does know the difference between local SD channels and local HD channels. She says she has NO antenna hooked up (unless the installer hooked up one outside and didn't tell her or charge her for it, but she said that the installer wasn't going to install an OTA antenna). She does see the KCCI-DT as well as the other local's HD logos on their digital channels. So, to me that is coming through the dish, if there truly isn't an OTA antenna hooked up per what the installer told her. I'm just going by what she told me. And sorry, I'm not going to ask if I can come over to confirm.

QUOTE]

Thanks...I wouldn't expect you to. We'll just have to wait and see. No one else is getting them, and I know I'm not and I'm doing everything "right". It could be for some strange reason she has an authorized box. I don't doubt that they are "there"...i.e., on the transponders right now...I see signal levels on 99. It's just so "out there" to think that one person (without inside connections) got randomly authorized and the rest of us are twiddling our thumbs. I could understand a person being turned on specifically for testing, but without their knowledge/active participation....waaay too wierd!

Stranger things have happened...notice that the D* CSR's are now saying OTA will not be turned on until early 2007, when they had been promising late 2006 (and rurmoring Dec 1 2006). Now, my contacts tell me this is patently false...that it will happen before 2007, but not by Dec 1, 2006. What a communication snafu...and it's all D*'s fault...they are telling customer two different things at the same time. It's caused a big uproar over in dbstalk.com

Thanks again, and let us know if you get any further info on HD-Locals and I'll keep checking every day until they show up.

dline

11-29-06, 06:49 PM

stoen

11-30-06, 02:32 AM

Also she is able to see 8.2 (weather now channel).
I don't think DirecTV is doing any subchannels. I think this is coming in OTA or else she is the only person in the country getting subchannels from DirecTV.

kc0bsn

11-30-06, 03:38 AM

Question for Mediacom subscribers in Ames:

I recently bought a TV with a QAM tuner. Are NBC, CBS, and PBS the only three digital stations we get in Ames? I don't seem to pick up a ABC or FOX digital station and was just wondering if that was normal. There are also some other stations in the 100s but none seem to be ABC or FOX.
Try looking around 115 or so. The last time I did a scan on my TV it plopped PBS & ABC at 115.1 & 115.2, but I also have a feeling it likes to do completely random things at times. ;) But as long as Ames is still basically being fed from the DSM headend, you should be getting WOI 5.1, KCCI 8.1, KCCI 8.2 (WxNow), KDIN 11.1, & WHO 13.1.

hasan

11-30-06, 08:34 AM

I don't think DirecTV is doing any subchannels. I think this is coming in OTA or else she is the only person in the country getting subchannels from DirecTV.

OK, we can put this one to bed...she is NOT getting 8-2 via D*...not possible, not happening, never going to happen...the bandwidth isn't there, and it's D*'s policy to NOT carry.

She is NOT getting HD-Locals via D*. (and neither is anyone else ahead of the rest of us, other than selected testers (and I'm not one of them))

I got a private message from contacts inside D* on the DMA stuff. He told me (and specifically inquired on my behalf) that MPEG-4/HD-Locals are now ramped up like this:

60% chance by end of year
100% chance within 45 days

This is from the DMA people at D*. (and no...they have not authorized this "mystery" person to have HD-Locals/MPEG-4.)

iowahawkeye

11-30-06, 12:41 PM

Another dispute in the offing ...

If E* DOES get locals, one HD local you shouldn't hold your breath for is KCWI.

Pappas Telecasting says it's pulling all its stations from Dish effective December 1, after failing to reach a new carriage agreement:

http://www.pappastv.com/pressdetail.php?id=93&prYr=2006

Pappas Makes Deal With EchoStar

At least somebody is getting something done.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6395871.html?display=Breaking+News

iowahawkeye

11-30-06, 04:12 PM

http://www.press-citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061130/NEWS01/61130006/1079

http://www.gazetteonline.com/2006/11/30/Home/mediacomsinclairdelay.htm

dline

11-30-06, 09:31 PM

Mediacom (http://www.mediacomcable.com) reports that, yes, Sinclair granted an extension. They don't say how long, but other stations and their websites report that it will last until January 5, 2007.

Pappas Telecasting (http://www.pappastv.com/pressdetail.php?id=94&prYr=2006), meanwhile, says it has reached a five-year deal with Dish Network -- the day after the company said it would pull the stations.

SnakeEyes

12-01-06, 03:02 AM

All I know to know is if any of this fight could result in KDSM HD being carried by Mediacom :)

mikel51

12-01-06, 07:51 AM

All I know to know is if any of this fight could result in KDSM HD being carried by Mediacom :)

I would certainly expect any "real" settlement to include HD.

tys90

12-01-06, 01:05 PM

Try looking around 115 or so. The last time I did a scan on my TV it plopped PBS & ABC at 115.1 & 115.2, but I also have a feeling it likes to do completely random things at times. ;) But as long as Ames is still basically being fed from the DSM headend, you should be getting WOI 5.1, KCCI 8.1, KCCI 8.2 (WxNow), KDIN 11.1, & WHO 13.1.

I did a rescan and I get 115.4 which is ABC-5. So now I get 8.1,8.2,13.1,115.2, and 115.4. I seem to be getting everything I should now. Thanks for the info.

I would certainly expect any "real" settlement to include HD.

It would be nice to have an agreement between sinclair and mediacom before the football season is over so we can get some playoff games in HD.

bogz

12-02-06, 05:19 PM

While I cannot validate weather your friend is getting them or not, but about a month ago, my non-hd receiver was showing 8, 8.1, 8.2, etc. It was very strange. I had to reboot the receiver in order to get rid of the stuff and be able to tune into my standard channels.

bogz

12-03-06, 04:44 PM

Is there a master list of channels we should be seeing in the Des Moines area?

I'm seeing:
5.1
8.1
8.2
11.1
11.2
13.1
13.2
17.1
23.1
56.1

Thanks.

msgc95

12-04-06, 09:49 AM

Sorry, I'm a newb on this sight so if I'm redundent, I apologize. Just from reading some of the past post's I'm gathering that nobody truly "knows" when Directv will release the HD locals. I've been told by the local installer in Urbandale that they will be released in December. Anybody else have anymore info? :)

ankenyclone

12-04-06, 07:22 PM

The only other one I get is 17.2 - the Tube music network.

hasan

12-04-06, 07:34 PM

The only other one I get is 17.2 - the Tube music network.

Me too...I'm guessing he just forgot that one! (PQ is awful)

No new word on HD-Locals/MPEG-4's from D*....last check I got from an insider about a week ago was:

60% chance by year's end
100% chance within 45 days.

gutwrencher

12-04-06, 07:48 PM

No new word on HD-Locals/MPEG-4's from D*....last check I got from an insider about a week ago was:

60% chance by year's end
100% chance within 45 days.

I apologize in advance for what may be a dumb question. So the big cheer for HD locals with D* is mainly for those who can't pick up the stations now via antenna?

hasan

12-04-06, 11:22 PM

I apologize in advance for what may be a dumb question. So the big cheer for HD locals with D* is mainly for those who can't pick up the stations now via antenna?

Can't, don't want to, etc.

Real TV afficianados LOVE antennas and want OTA-HD, (with all its advantages, like better PQ, all sub-channels, reduced signal loss in bad weather, etc.).

The only advantage of HD-Locals with D* is reduced hard disk usage because of the MPEG-4 compression scheme via satellite, while normal OTA-HD via antenna is MPEG-2. MPEG-2 takes up more room on the HD than MPEG-4.

denyart

12-04-06, 11:41 PM

msgc95

12-05-06, 09:33 AM

hard drive useage...oh you mean for the dish dvr's. I was thinking Media Center computers, but that would only be for the OTA signals unless they ever come out with dish cards for media center PCs. Anyone know if the mpeg4 HD local receivers even come in a DVR flavor for those who want to timeshift without losing HD?

This may not be the answer you're looking for........but are you talking about the HR20-700? That receiver is MPEG-4 ready and is a HD-DVR.

denyart

12-05-06, 11:37 AM

kc0bsn

12-05-06, 12:42 PM

denyart

12-05-06, 02:37 PM

Nice data. The one thing that really stands out (and annoys me) is the difference in AC3 normalization. I mean 10dB is quite a range when you switch back and forth between channels. I know when I channel surf late at night it can be tricky to do without waking someone up when you make that jump from WHO to KCCI. I don't know which I would prefer, but I do know I would like it if they could all find a way to get a little closer together in volume. Perhaps those with ATSC TVs (built in tuners) could chime in on whether they find the digital stations too quiet, just right, or too loud in general. Then maybe the stations could change their signals all to a level that made sense. I would personally vote for all the stations to be set to a reference level so a 0dB refernce signal would really come out of a standardized tuner box at a true 0dB reference level.

hasan

12-05-06, 03:28 PM

That may be what I was asking. So if a person has that receiver I would guess that they would be able to receive the local HD retransmissions from the dish and record them in native mpeg4 format, right? That is what I was asking.

Yes, but being able to record OTA-HD (which is MPEG-2) is more desirable in terms of picture quality. The HR20 will be able to do that (probably this week...from sources I have spoken with)

The problem isn't MPEG-4...it is that D* is transcoding local OTA MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, then the limited bit rate (bandwidth) they can assign based on the currently available satellites further compromises the PQ.

OTA-HD is THE Gold Standard, and is likely to remain so for a long time.

To be fair, some people in other markets who are receiving MPEG-4/HD-Locals via D* report the PQ (picture quality) to be very good...most however, are having issues of one kind or another...and I question the "discernment" of those who can't see the differnce between transcoded MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 and bit starvation compared to OTA-HD. I won't know for sure (other than the math of transcoding) until they turn on MPEG-4/HD-Locals here, supposedly before the end of the year.

hasan

12-05-06, 03:36 PM

I thought it might be interesting to take a sample of the bitrates currently in use on the Des Moines local stations. I'm hardly ever home during actual primetime programming, so I'll have to schedule some recordings so I can get a sample during HD/5.1 programming on stations. For now, these samples were taken between 11am & 11:30am.

I also took a look at how far the program guides go out and what the system times were reporting. It's nice to see that everyone is within about 30 seconds of the time on my clock. (I synced to atomic NTP servers before the test.) I'll try to schedule some longer samples so I can see a better average during primetime sometime this week.

Google Spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pGwRYmYAKs1sXI4WH3o2QHw)

VERY GOOD STUFF!!!

One question:

What is the first bit rate column referring to (the larger value)? I'm assuming the 2nd bit rate column is "actual/measured"...is the first one "authorized" or "ideal"?
I'm trying to figure out why... 1080i vs 720p, perhaps...but that difference should show up in the measured bit rate as well, and it doesn't.

denyart

12-05-06, 04:26 PM

hasan

12-05-06, 04:35 PM

I was referring to being able to store digital directly without making it into another format to save it. I agree the original format is always going to have the best quality because any re-sampling/re-encoding step can never do better. I was just curious how the current state of HD locals from sources other than OTA was going. In my opinion if you can't time-shift or record a signal it loses a lot of its appeal because even though a picture may be better or worse, if you aren't there to watch it or have to record it via s-video into a "TiVo" it isn't that useful. Being able to conveniently record HD makes HD just that much more appealing. If the dish receivers include OTA tuners and the ability to record those ATSC signals (as well as mpeg4 dish-only HD channels) that would be the best of both worlds.

DirecTV HR20 will (in the next few days) include OTA-HD ATSC tuners (2 of them) and the ability to record them. The HR20 also receives/records MPEG-4/HD-Locals if your market has them (Des Moines is on the list for end of this year).

Can't get much more convenient than that. I'll let you know how it works as soon as they turn the OTA-HD tuners on.

denyart

12-05-06, 04:39 PM

Sounds like a nice option. I wonder if they will ever find a way to get DirecTV receiver cards into Media Center PCs, or maybe a way to interface the STB receivers into a Media Center PC directly in the digital domain (e.g. firewire streaming and control)???

kc0bsn

12-05-06, 04:47 PM

What is the first bit rate column referring to (the larger value)? I'm assuming the 2nd bit rate column is "actual/measured"...is the first one "authorized" or "ideal"?
I'm trying to figure out why... 1080i vs 720p, perhaps...but that difference should show up in the measured bit rate as well, and it doesn't.
I'm not exactly sure what accounts for the wide difference in the first MPEG bitrate column either. It's either the assigned limit for bandwidth or the assumed bandwidth of the incoming stream.

As for 1080i vs. 720p, that why I'd like to grab some samples from primetime and see. What you don't see in that chart are the amount of null packets, guide data streams, and other miscellaneous data that's sent in the stream. When you add all those in, everyone has the same mux bitrate.

Another thing I forgot to add was that KDMI has added control tables for KEFB Channel 34 into its stream. They just haven't begun streaming any video or audio data for them yet.

n691665x

12-05-06, 07:18 PM

Does anyone else's 56-2 NOT map to 23-1 ? I have a E* 811 receiver that I tune with and it will not map to 23-1, so I don't get the guide info. Unfortunately, the Toshiba HDTV that it's hooked to doesn't have a built-in tuner, so I have to use the 811. I have another, small HDTV with a built-in tuner and it displays 23-1 just fine.

Any ideas (besides calling Dish Network... they were no help at all) ?

msgc95

12-06-06, 09:29 AM

I currently have the HR-20 700 HD DVR. My question is, what is the range limit to be able to pick these up over the air.

hasan

12-06-06, 07:25 PM

I currently have the HR-20 700 HD DVR. My question is, what is the range limit to be able to pick these up over the air.

You certainly haven't given us anything to work with!

Where are you, what kind of antenna are you using, how far from Alleman where the transmitters/antennas are???

Here's a better solution for ya:

Go to antennaweb.org, type in your zip code and it will tell you what stations are available to you, and what kind of antenna will be required.

Then, please come back here and tell us how you made out, because I couldn't learn a thing from what you posted. (I do have an HR20-700, btw, and am hoping that the OTA may get turned on (at least on the West coast) tonight. If it is released to the Westies tonight, we should have it no later than Friday if all goes well.

I will post here when I know more.

hasan

12-07-06, 08:01 AM

Good News!!!

The OTA-HD (ATSC only) Tuners have been turned on in the latest firmware rollout on the DirecTV HR20-700.

The West coast received the update overnight. The rollout is "staggered"...it will not reach the Midwest until Monday or so...certainly no later than next week.

All the information on how it's working on the West Coast, as well as some excellent OTA setup information on the HR20 for OTA-HD is provided at dbstalk.com

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=71203

Jas_IA

12-07-06, 10:56 AM

denyart

12-07-06, 11:51 AM

There is no real way to answer what you should see because every antenna, tuner, location combination will affect the results. It is normal to get 8 and 13 with a stronger signal. Many people do see them a little stronger, but it is not cut and dried. If you are having dropouts on the other stations you may need to experiment with a different antenna location or aim or maybe a different antenna itself. I can get all of the local OTA digital channels with no dropouts using an indoor SilverSensor-like antenna in my attic (2 story with no obstructions) except KCWI which has some dropouts. I live in SW Ames though so I am considerably closer. You are on the right track. You may want to wait and see what the dish HD locals look like (if you can get all of them) and then try to decide whether OTA is worth it. I think it will always be my firsst choice, OTA that is, because it doesn't require a subsciption and it is, in my opinion, a better picture by far.

cad

12-07-06, 04:15 PM

hasan

12-07-06, 06:17 PM

I just joined the HD world and am pleased to see a local board such as this for central iowa. I hooked up my antenna last night (indoor from Radio Shack) just to see what kind of reception I'd get (live in Story City) and the channels came in mostly very good. The signal strength was typically in the 70's but 8.1 & 13.1 were in 80's to 90's. Channels with sig strength in the 70's or lower seemed to cut out with some frequency. What is normal for signal strength, should they all be in the 90's? I am scheduled to get my D* dish swapped out for an HD dish and I'm getting the HR 20 DVR next Thursday. I'll compare OTA vs D* PQ to see which way to go.
Also I wasn't aware of the weather sub channels, etc. pretty cool!

I have the HR20-700 DVR and love it. OTA-HD should be turned on for us next Monday or Tuesday. It is already turned on for the parts of the West coast. They are doing a slowly staggered roll out so they can deal with any possible issues.

If I were in Story City, I would go to Radio Shack and buy a U-75 UHF antenna. They are only about 25 bucks, boom length is 40 inches and has a corner reflector. This antenna should do an outstanding job for you in an attic, or worst case you could go outdoors with it.

PQ OTA-HD is the Gold Standard...it will be quite some time for any HD offering from D* equalling it. I'm a long time D* subscriber, so I'm not trashing them....it's just there are sound technical reasons for the superiority of OTA-HD. I'll also give you a signal report on the HR20 as soon as they turn on the tuners.

I get all the HD locals here in central Iowa just fine on my Sammy with a medium sized Channel Master on the 2nd story peak of the house.

ABC: 7/10
CBS: 10/10
PBS: 10/10
NBC: 10/10
FOX: 7/10
CW: 7/10

(that's 7 out of 10, 10 being full scale)

The reports from the HR20 will be in %...they use a different "scale". None of them actually measure signal strength...they measure bit-error-rate or something similar.

kc0bsn

12-07-06, 06:54 PM

I apologize if this had been covered (I did a search and couldn't find anything). Does anyone have problems with loosing sound on hd 5, 8, or 13?The picture is fine but sometimes I loose all sound for 5 to 30 seconds. Is there a fix out there?When do you notice the sound dropping out and do you have your receiver hooked up to a surround sound receiver? It could be possible that when the stream switches from 5.1 to 2.0 or something similar that your receiver takes a bit to figure it out... just a thought...

nicholasmcgrew

12-08-06, 12:05 PM

I have tried to search for answers to my question, but it's hard to do given the whole Sinclair/Mediacom ordeal. So hopefully if I ask, some people will be willing to help me.

I just bought my Pioneer HDTV and love it. We live in an apartment in Urbandale and get Mediacom Basic Cable. I wasn't expecting anything at all when I plugged my new TV into the wall. Surprisingly, I get a few HD channels: NBC, CBS, I think some sort of ABC, some music channels, and another unidentified channel, all through my 'basic' cable.

But my real question is, for anyone out there with Mediacom HDTV and/or Digital Cable, is it worth it? I have considered buying an antennae to get the Local HD's. But of course, the Digital Cable will make full use of my fancy new TV right? I can't help but feel not having Digital Cable is almost an insult to my TV. We're not huge sports watchers, so HD ESPN isn't a HUGE priority, but I wouldn't mind it . . .

I would love to get a dish, but the apartment complex makes it dang near impossible. I am aware of FCC regs about my rights, but for my scenario I have just decided on no dish until I move in the somewhat near future.

Thanks to everyone who replies,
--Nick

denyart

12-08-06, 12:32 PM

You can get all of the local's "main" channels (and some subchannels using digital cable) except Fox. An antenna would get you all the local channels and subchannels (including Fox) if you can get a good enough signal. As for the extra HD on cable, I cannot comment because I don't have it. Anyone care to tackle that one?

cad

12-08-06, 04:34 PM

Thanks KC

I do have it hooked up to a receiver and surround sound system. It happens quite randomly in the middle of shows not when I have changed channels.

L.T.

12-08-06, 04:41 PM

Newbie here wondering the same thing regarding digital cable and HD from Mediacom. Right now I have "basice cable" and am confused as to if I need digital, HD, or a combination of the two. Will be recieving my Sony 60A2000 within the next couple of weeks and was hoping to have the cable issue worked out by then. Any help is appreciated!

ankenyclone

12-08-06, 08:43 PM

I subscribe to Mediacom HDTV. I have a Motorola HD box that includes a 120 gb dvr that works very well. I am able to store about 14 hours of HD shows at a time. The channels you get if you subscribe to Mediacom HDTV are: ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, ESPN, ESPN2, Universal HD, Discovery HD, HD Net, HD Net Movies, INHD; pay channels would be HBO, Starz, Showtime, and The Movie Channel. I personally don't pay for digital cable, because I don't watch very much that isn't HD. Between the Mediacom HDTV channels & the other OTA channels (Fox, CW), there is plenty to watch.

I find the HD signal from Mediacom to be absolutely beautiful. The channels that are digital (like regular HBO) are pretty terrible when compared to HD. I find that digital cable looked way better on my old standard def tv than it does on my HDTV.

My advice, if you are going to pay thousands of dollars for a HDTV, do it justice by sending it as many HD channels as you can.

Oh one last thing, I split my cable before the box, so I run the regular cable into the box and direct into the tuner, because these Motorola boxes make regular analog channels look absolutely horrible.

L.T.

12-08-06, 10:39 PM

Thank's for the reply ankenyclone, I've seen this mentioned in other thread's. So after the split one goes to the box and the other goes directly to the TV? I have a splitter already right after the cable enter's the house, will it hurt to have a second one at the TV?

Oh one last thing, I split my cable before the box, so I run the regular cable into the box and direct into the tuner, because these Motorola boxes make regular analog channels look absolutely horrible.

kc0bsn

12-11-06, 01:05 AM

Thanks KC

I do have it hooked up to a receiver and surround sound system. It happens quite randomly in the middle of shows not when I have changed channels.cad, I'm still leaning towards some sort of local problem for you. Does the loss of audio happen during all times of day or more during network programming. Or you could also check to see whether the same problem happens on 8.2 or 17.2. Both of those channels stay the same audio-wise (2/0). And just to clarify, you say you're a Direct TV subscriber, but we're talking about OTA digital channels here, right?

nicholasmcgrew

12-11-06, 08:44 AM

Thanks to all who posted about the Mediacom HD/Digital Cable. I had wondered whether the digital cable would improve the quality of cable channels like TBS and FX. I agree that since I paid so much for the TV I need HD. But I don't know if I can justify paying Mediacom for HD channels of which half come over the air. But the sports channels would be nice.

I'll probably just buck up and get the HD from Mediacom and see about the Digital. My TV can take a cable card, so would that make the regular analog channels look worse like ankenyclone says?

Thanks again.

denyart

12-11-06, 09:50 AM

Not sure what you are asking about regular looking worse and having to do with cable card, but you may want to try your cable carefully to see if you don't get one of the sports channels in the clear. I know someone in des moines that does on his. You would get the best picture with an antenna. Second best would be cable or dish (with one beating the other in different situations). Dish rebroadcasts of locals in sd are pretty bad for most part, but once they get hd transmissions going they should be much better. Cable sd is okay, but often worse than an antenna for local ota stations. SD in general will look bad on some sets. That is very display specific though and you can get a better picture for sd if you're shopping for a new tv, but alas you already have one so if sd is bad you will have to live with it (don't feel bad it is that may for many hd sets).

nicholasmcgrew

12-11-06, 10:08 AM

So I realize my above post was confusing. I guess i was trying to say that if I had a cable card, I might not be able to split my cable before it comes to my TV. But I was confused, because I could just split it before I ran it into the cablecard.

I can say that I was almost disappointed with my general cable reception when I got my TV home. But my old TV was just 25", so the jump in size alone could account for the "grainer" picture. I haven't had the time yet to optimize my setup. I still have my cable running through the VCR first, so that isn't helping either.

Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for everyone's help.

msgc95

12-11-06, 10:56 AM

MAN I CAN'T WAIT FOR D* TO TURN ON THE DES MOINES LOCALS IN HD!!!!!! I'm to far away to pick it up by antenna.

denyart

12-11-06, 01:05 PM

... I had wondered whether the digital cable would improve the quality of cable channels like TBS and FX. ...
Oh, digital cable doesn't do much for the analog cable channels. The picture may be better or worse for TBS and FX, but it has nothing to do with digital cable. Your digital cable box merely tunes those channels off the analog cable channel just like your TV. Of course this means you would be using the analog tuner in the digital cable box, which may be better or worse than the one in your TV. Many people (including about half the ones at the cable company) don't understand that digital cable does not give you every channel in digital.

nicholasmcgrew

12-11-06, 01:37 PM

Thank you Denyart. That's exactly the answer I was looking for. Unfortunatly, it wasn't the answer I was hoping for, but that's not your fault.

ankenyclone

12-11-06, 06:03 PM

Denyart is right on. Another disadvantage of the tuner in the Motorola HD boxes is that there is no coaxial cable "out" on that box. So lets say you are using the box for HD channels, and that leaves you a component or HDMI connection to send all the data. From my experience, the component sends analog through terribly, but the HDMI is even worse. This is why I split my cable before the box (meaning I watch analog channels using the TV's tuner, and HD channels using the cable box's tuner). Since I have a Harmony remote, this is actually not a big deal at all - I have one button programmed to Watch Analog TV and another to Watch HDTV. If anyone was thinking about a Harmony, a local retailer with a "big flag" in Johnston has the 670 in their ad for $100 this week. My brother has that remote, and I have the 676 (last year's model) and they are worth every penny of $200, let alone $100.

denyart

12-11-06, 08:37 PM

About the dual antenna thing; that may work with a splitter/combiner. I have heard of people with success, but I know it tneds to work best when the two locations are fairly far apart. E.g. you aim one at 45degrees and the other at 100degrees or something like that. If you have two that are close together and you get a lot of signal overlap you can create some overpowering multipath, and many HD tuners are not too good at dealing with multipath.

fireshoes

12-12-06, 03:04 PM

If anyone was thinking about a Harmony, a local retailer with a "big flag" in Johnston has the 670 in their ad for $100 this week.

The remotes are currently sold out if anyone was hoping to buy one as a gift.

edit....a handful of each model are now available.

jigou

12-13-06, 09:41 AM

I bought a 680 model Harmony remote on Amazon yesterday for about 3/4 of what the big flag store was advertising the 670 for. (As far as I can tell, the styling is the main difference between the two.)

Minor irritating issue with Amazon: Last week it was roughly the same price....but when I came back an hour later it had jumped to over a hundred. Seems the prices change randomly on some items......

Jarrod

ltrain20

12-13-06, 06:45 PM

I talked to 3 different folks at D* last night and all said the rollout of HD locals is now saying late 2007 not late 2006 anymore.
I know at alot of times the CSR do not have much info, but retention and tech support (talked to other areas because other individuals kept telling me the OTA was working on the HR20-700 and I just did not know how to hook it up).
I tried betting a year and then a months bill that it was not working yet as the update has not been sent nationally yet.

So hopefully everyone was wrong and we will get these earlier but if not I hope the OTA software update somes as soon as Earl at DBS talk is indicating.

randym431

12-13-06, 10:49 PM

I have the dish service with the 622 hd pvr and ota hd hooked up via an antenna voom put up long ago when I had voom.
When voom put up the ota antenna, abc-hd was not online. Now I can get abc-hd thru the ota hookup on the dish 622 hd pvr. But, abc-hd breaks up quite a bit. I figured the ota antenna needs some adjustment-aiming. So where in direction to nbc, cbs and pbs towers is the abc tower located? All the others come in 100% sig. Abc is like 60 and jumps all around. I need to try to re aim the antenna to grab a stronger abc sig. Not sure where the abc tower is located as to the others...?

msgc95

12-14-06, 11:51 AM

msgc95

12-14-06, 02:12 PM

Talked to D* just a minute ago. They told me the same thing......late 2007. There reasoning was the TV stations haven't signed the contracts yet.

hasan

12-14-06, 07:33 PM

Talked to D* just a minute ago. They told me the same thing......late 2007. There reasoning was the TV stations haven't signed the contracts yet.

OTA-HD on the HR20 was activated last night for those who caught a temporary "window" to force a download of the 0x108 firmware. I was one of the lucky ones. I have it and OTA-HD works very nicely.

This was a special "test" and was only announced a few hours before the window opened, and it was only open for a few hours. Several hundred people all over the country reported downloading it and are VERY pleased with the OTA-HD performance.

The contact I had with an insider said 60% chance by end of year, 100% chance within 45 days...I would trust that contact more than any CSR. (for HD-Locals via Satellite)

There is some chance of a national release of OTA-HD for the HR20 next week.

That's the best info I have.

Now that I have the 0x108 firmware, OTA-HD will continue to work for me...I didn't mean to imply that it would only work for the few hours noted above. The "few hours" refers to the "open download" window that was offered as a result of complaints and demands of a LOT of people. D* relented and allowed the latest firmware to be downloaded AT THE RISK OF THE USER WITH NO SUPPORT, during a few hour window, starting at 10:00 p.m. CST last night.

N.B. The OTA-HD for the HR20 only recognizes the following (at this point):

5-1
8-1
11-1
11-2
13-1
17-1
17-2

The rest of our digital locals have not been added to the database that the HR20 depends on...there is NO WAY to manually scan for channels...they must be in the "source database", which currently does not include

8-2 (weather)
13-2 (weather radar)
23-1 (KPWG)
56-1 (CW)

The database is being worked on, and I expect the missing channels will show up soon.

I recorded both Leno and Letterman OTA-HD last night (simultaneously) and they both came out stunningly! Way to go D*!

Jas_IA

12-15-06, 09:38 AM

hasan

12-15-06, 09:52 AM

What are you referring to when you say D* doesn't offer local HD channels yet? Does that mean someone with a HD dish and the HR20 will still need an antenna to view the locals in HD? Or does it mean you can hook up your antenna and have the HR20 record the OTA HD's? Some clarification would be great, thanks.

Just last night D* pulled a no show on me. A phone call revealed they had cancelled my appt without bothering to inform me and reshceduled it for 3 weeks from now. My wife who took vacation from work to be there was quite pissed off. If i can't get the locals through the dish I might not bother with it at all.

Yes...at this point you can't get local HD stations with the HR-20. You can't get them via satellite, you can't get them via an OTA antenna. (unless you were part of the beta group that got the new firmware on Wednesday evening)

D* doesn't offer HD-Locals via Satellite yet. They are supposed to be "turned on" in our market before year's end, or within 45 days. These would be coming from the D* satellites.

They are now in the process of releasing new firmware that will let you tune in and record Over-The-Air HD with an antenna ...it should be nationally released in the next two weeks. I have a beta copy of the firmware running on my HR20 right now that enabled the OTA-HD and it works great. This has NOTHING to do with HD-Locals via D* satellites.

Two sources:

HD-OTA (received by the HR20 with an antenna to pick up our local TV stations)

HD-Local/MPEG-4 (received by the HR20 via Satellite)

Missed appointments like that are a bummer. I've not had it happen, but many across the country do. If you call them back (D*) and complain, you will probably receive some consideration (free programming)....and of course, get your appointment straightened out.

Don't minimize the importance of getting your local HD content OTA with an antenna:

Advantages of OTA-HD over your MPEG-4/HD-Locals:

1. PQ (Picture Quality). The Gold Standard of PQ is OTA-HD and is likely to
remain so for quite some time. Your MPEG-4/HD-Locals from D* are transcoded from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4...there is loss. Available bandwidth on D* is limited, so all
HD on the satellites is bit-starved (further degradation). HD as delivered via
D* is at best HD-Lite compared to OTA-HD, in most cases.

2. Immunity from signal loss: OTA-HD (unless you are in a fringe area) is much
less vulnerable to signal loss from precipitation.

3. Sub Channels and PBS (I don't think PBS-HD is carried yet by D*). There is
wonderful programming on PBS, and the video quality is stunning.

So, if I had an HR20 (and I do), my first priority would be to get my OTA-HD setup ready to go, as you are likely to see OTA-HD turned on "real soon now", and the quality will be better than what you eventually will get via satellite anyway.

Jas_IA

12-15-06, 11:34 AM

Hasan, I appreciate the reply, that's exactly the info I was looking for.

hasan

12-15-06, 04:54 PM

Hasan, I appreciate the reply, that's exactly the info I was looking for.

If you want your HR20 to work with OTA-HD, you may be able to get it tonight!!!

From Earl @ DBSTALK....he is SUPER RELIABLE TO THE INSIDE OF THE HR20 people:

It is no joke...we did the same thing two nights ago. Here is what you need to do:

Force an Update of the HR20 firmware starting shortly after 8 PM Pacific, and before 10:30 PM pacific...it won't be available after that...until it's ready for national release. This is an "early" test bed ...I'm running it right now and I'm getting very good OTA-HD performance from the HR20. See my other post.

How to force the HR20 to update:

Method 1:

Menu > Help & Settings > Setup > Reset > Reset Recorder (1st option)

When the first BLUE SCREEN comes back up, immediately hit 02468 on the remote...and then wait...you should see it go out and identify 0x108 or later as new firmware...now wait...let it do its thing...takes about 20 minutes total.

Method 2:

Hit the red reset button next to the access card, wiat for the Blue Screen, and hit 02468 on the remote...rest is the same.

Once you have the update, you can go into setup and use the Wizard to setup OTA-HD on the HR20.

Here is Earl's message...it is in Santa terms because that's how he started the whole process two days ago when I got the OTA-HD update for the HR20...it was a pure gift from D*..not supported...don't call D* about this upgrade if you have problems...that is the condition of the "beta update"...if you have questions you MUST go to dbstalk.com and ask (us) for help there...lots of us are waiting to help.

I REPEAT, D* does NOT want to be bothered with this....it's an inside job from the engineering staff to us (early adopters/beta testers)...the CSR's don't know diddly about it.

Quoting Earl Bonovich, Moderator HR20 Forum of dbstalk.com:

I just got a telephone call, from the "Reindeer" stable.
They got a message that they need to wake up the Reindeer....

And prep-the sled... as Santa is thinking about taking a flight tonight (Friday).
Word around the north poll is that there was such a buzz over the results of the other nights run.... He thought he would take a chance, a deliever a slightly updated version of his original package.

Santa hasn't put on the red-suit yet, but... It has been taken out of the closet. Be sure to check the forum tonight.... If everything does go according to plans.... he will be flying between 8PM and 10:30PM PST

If there is lift-off, I will post the details about it... and also with some "warnings" about it...

This is not a test message...
And there is a marginal chance, the sled will stay grounded......

Jas_IA

12-15-06, 05:06 PM

mmm, if my good friends at D* would have delived my HR20 as scheduled last night I'd be all over that but alas I'll have to wait for three freakin more weeks! Thanks for the tip anyway.

hasan

12-15-06, 05:31 PM

mmm, if my good friends at D* would have delived my HR20 as scheduled last night I'd be all over that but alas I'll have to wait for three freakin more weeks! Thanks for the tip anyway.

Sorry to hear that...it shouldn't be too long before OTA-HD is in national release...but it's nice to get it early!

It's not D*...it's the subcontracted installers who are unreliable. If you call D* and tell them how you got stiffed, they may offer you some freebees.

hasan

12-15-06, 06:24 PM

This is for owners of the DirecTV HR20 HiDef DVR box. The upgrade detailed below INCLUDES OTA-HD being turned on. I have been testing a very similar upgrade since this Wednesday, and it works great. Here is the info, the warnings and the "how to", copied from dbstalk.com

Santa Claus and 0x10B
Well let me tell you a little story... about some very good girls and boys.
Santa delivered them a gift... and the response was amazing.

Santa heard (and read) all your replies, and promises of being good, ect...
Santa has decided to make a second run.

However next week is his annual big trip, so this is going to be the last run for a little while. Doesn't mean it will be the last run ever... just probably for 2006.

It also doesn't mean, Santa won't flip his national distribution network. He just wants to make sure that the gift fits and works as it is supposed to.

-------------------------------
So some of the same "warnings" from the other night.

Staggard rollouts are there for a reason... as much as they are confident about the release, they need to limit the impact of any unexpected issues.

However; If you are so incline and want to "take a risk" and force download the 0x10B software version... here is your opportunity.

As of this writing the version number is 0x10B; It may change before things happen

Tonight: 12/15/2006 between 11pm and 1:30am(EST); 8pm and 10:30pm (PST), you may be able to get the new 0x10B code by the 02468 method.

If you do attempt to get 0x10B; then you assume all the risks with the software version.

Here is what is changing so evaluate your decision to move from what ever version you are on now, to 0x10B. (I am not going to post formal release notes at this time).

* MORE stability fixes
* Updates to the Music/Picture (aka ViiV) features of the system
* Updates to the Prioritizer (to improve it's performance)
* Tuner Conflict Screen
* During FF, there are cases where the image will go "backwards" for a frame or two; fixed
* Several HDMI compatibility fixes

I can not stress it enough: If you force download 0x10B, DO NOT CALL the call center if you are having problems. Come back here, and report the problem.

And if it is to the point that you can "live" with it, do another forced update to revert back to 0xFA, there is no going back to 0x104, 0x108, or any other version after 0xFA

hasan

12-16-06, 11:36 AM

Channel 5-1 had a problem last night and was off the air for about 15 minutes, somewhere around 10:00 p.m.

Since they came back up, their power level is down considerably. They had been running 6 to 7 out of 10 for strength...since coming back up they've only been at a 4

At this signal level, there is no margin for fading and the pix is gonna disappear at the drop of a hat.

Anyone have contact info for them, so we can tell them that they need to crank 'er back up...or at least tell us what's up.

TIA

p.s. The OTA-HD upgrade for the HR20 went perfectly last night. Lots more people now have OTA-HD recording capability. (this was a beta release for 2.5 hours only...i.e., a window was opened for an unsupported upgraded for 2.5 hours..after that the upgrade was no longer offered, so you either caught it or you'll have to wait until the general release goes national.

hasan

12-18-06, 11:41 PM

Just received word that the DirecTV HR20 DVR firmware will be upgraded this week to version 0x10b, including Over the Air Tuner(s). It will be a staggered rollout, starting on the west coast and moving east. I've been using a beta version since last Wednesday and it works well. There are missing channels...they are updating the database (which drives the HR20) to include out missing channels. It could be a while before they are all there.

As of now, (when you get the upgrade, which will happen automatically overnight), we have:

5-1
8-1
11-1
11-2
13-1
17-1
17-2

Be patient...it could take a few days to make it to the midwest.

-Z-

12-19-06, 11:57 AM

hasan

12-19-06, 04:56 PM

Hi everyone -

I'm relatively new to HDTV and looking for a little help getting started. I am interested in on-air reception of local channels using an outdoor antenna. The antenna would be located in Jefferson, IA which is ~42 miles from the Des Moines/Ames stations. Would this distance still be in range to receive reception? Could anyone else in a similar proximity give me any feedback? hasan...I see that you are in nearby Ogden...any help you could offer would be appreciated. I am looking for any suggestions on antennas or other equipment that may be suitable for my location. The antenna would most likely be used with a tv with a built in HDTV tuner, but no satelite or cable services. Again, any help with were to begin would be great! Thanks

-Z-

Howdy!

I think as long as you aren't down in a complete hole, you should be able to get all the signals from Alleman...with the possible exception of WOI....their signal is not very good...but you might.

Go to the URL listed below and look at the various antennas...there are a couple ways you could go, and I might suggest an incremental approach as well

One thing to consider is you might need low vhf performance in 2008 when the final freq assignments are done. WOI can't seem to get their act together and we don't know where they are going to end up. If everything stays UHF for HD and you are only interested in HD, then the choices are much easier.

If I had to put all my eggs in one basket (VHF and UHF) I would look at this one:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/CM3671.html

If I were going UHF only (where all our HD stations are now and where most of them are going to stay, I would look at this one:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/XG91.html

Now...let's look at a cheap experimental UHF only antenna ...25 bucks from Radio shack:

U-75 ...it has a 40" boom with corner reflector. You could try it at very low cost and if it works, live with it until you have to choose one of the larger more expensive models (either the CM for VHF/UHF or the XG for UHF only)

This site will show you a lot about various commercial antennas.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Lemme know if you need more help.

HDJeff

12-19-06, 04:56 PM

Would this distance still be in range to receive reception?I don't live in that area but you should look at www.antennaweb.org. You put your address into that website and it tells you what channels you are able to receive, what size antenna you need and tells you where to point your antenna to pick up those channels.

hasan

12-19-06, 06:40 PM

I don't live in that area but you should look at www.antennaweb.org. You put your address into that website and it tells you what channels you are able to receive, what size antenna you need and tells you where to point your antenna to pick up those channels.

That is a very good site...but ....it tends to be VERY conservative, showing that you need much more antenna than actually required...at least in our areas. It will give you a good idea of "oh boy, this is going to be tough" vs "piece of cake"...in between it is highly inaccurate.

hasan

12-19-06, 10:07 PM

Firmware version 0x10b has gone national. It has the OTA-HD tuners activated in it. It will come automagically overnight, tonight, or you can force the update now (if you know how).

In central Iowa there will be some missing channels as the HR20 is driven by the Tribune Media database which is missing the following entries:

8-2
13-2
23-1
56-1

All of the major networks are working fine, however (ABC, CBS, PBS, NBC & FOX)

Have fun!

-Z-

12-21-06, 11:19 AM

Thanks for the advice...definitely a big help. One other question...say I buy one of the HD antennas mentioned above and the HD reception turns out to be poor. Will those antennas be able to pull the on-air channels not in HD (I'm not sure on the correct term...just regular on-air frequencies? ex. 5, 8, 11, 13, 17) I know that the all the HD's are on uhf...are the non-HD's also uhf?... or are they vhf? I want to make sure regular on-air will still be received well with one antenna even if the HD is out of range...would I need the uhf/vhf combo to ensure this?

denyart

12-21-06, 01:42 PM

You actually have the answer in your question. 5, 8, 11, and 13 are on those actual channels in the analog world. Those are all VHF channels. You may be able to get some of them (particularly 13) with a UHF only antenna, but it is not designed for that and it may not get them or do a good job. SO you would want an UHF/VHF if this is your goal. IMO it is worth it too because the cable company likely has a bad feed for the analog stations in comparison to what you can get with a good antenna. At your range this could be a problem though. Good luck!

jahost1942

12-22-06, 03:07 PM

I have a Phillips MAST901 ota antenna but I can't get a strong enough signal from channels 5.1 and 11.1 to lock them in. They are 12.5 miles and 14.6 miles from me according to antennaweb. The antenna is supposed to get UHF reception from 60 miles away. Channels 8.1, 13.1 and 17.1 come in fine. They are all at compass direction 346-348. Would an amplifier or rotator help?

BLS871

12-22-06, 05:58 PM

Is anybody else out there noticing bad motion smearing in people's faces on PBS 1080i? It is very noticable to me, especially in close ups of people that move their head alot when they talk. I just am not certian if it is the channel or the TV. I notice it on other channels but not as bad.

If anyone out there does look for it, please let me know if you see it (you may have to wait to see a moving face to see it, still pictures look fantastic) and if you do or don't see it also list what kind of TV you have and what your reception is like. My reception seems to be really good (very crisp and clear) but I still see the motion smearing really bad. It frustrating because it could be due to so many factors TV, channel, bad deinterlacing, connection quality. Thanks in advance if anyone can help.

hasan

12-22-06, 08:53 PM

BLS871

12-23-06, 04:23 AM

hasan

12-23-06, 09:34 AM

Thank you very much for taking the time to check that out Hasan, Very cool of you. I am now going to buy a better antenna to see if that helps, and if not this TV is going back for sure. I can't even watch anything without seeing the smearing, But PBS in 1080i is really bad! I totally know what your saying about those orchestra shows being a good test for motion smearing. The very shiny instruments along a solid black backround really makes any smearing come right out. Light glaring off of metal and plastic always produce the most noticable smears to me

Also Hasan can I ask how good your signal strength is? I really would like to get to the bottom of this. My picture (on PBS) for example looks flawless unless you get really close then you can see imperfections, but I'm doubting these imperfections are whats causing the smearing.

It's not a signal strength issue...if you get a lock (pix displays), there is no further improvement with strength. I get 11-1 at about 90% here just north of Ogden.

I think your TV is mal-adjusted. Try the following:

1. If you have two lamp settings (super bright and normal), set to normal.

2. Set your TV's picture settings:

a. Sharpness: 0 (yes, 0)
b. Contrast: no greater than 75
c. Color Temp: doesn't matter for your problem
d. Brightness 50%
e. Tint: Neutral (50%)
f. Noise Reduction : OFF
g. DNIE (if you have it) : OFF

Anything else that can be turned to off or neutral do so.

How big is your tv and how close are you sitting to it?

The adjustments above prevent a lot of "artifacts" from showing up, while maintaining high pix quality.

Let us know how you make out.

BLS871

12-23-06, 05:31 PM

Thanks again Hasan for being so hospitable for something that doesn't affect you. :cool:
I have tried your suggested settings (actually they were close to mine and had all options turned off as you suggested) and it still seems to be doing it. I think this TV is defective. I was watching PBS really early this morning and the reception was crystal clear and I was still noticing it. I did notice you said this isn't a reception problem though. And as far as size and distance I have a 32" and I am sitting about 8 feet away from the screen. And blur is still very noticable.

I think I have figured out however why even with great reception it still has blur. It seems this TV whenever alot of motion appears on the TV it gets blocky, even with perfect reception. I gotta believe this is what's causing the motion smearing. I read a post in the Samsung thread where someone seemed to be explaining what I am seeing and they called Samsung and was told the TV needed to be replaced. I think I'm going to try a Toshiba. Between motion blur, crushing colors, backlight bleeding, bad de-interlacing and a faulty composite input, I think I can do better than this.

hasan

12-23-06, 09:35 PM

Thanks again Hasan for being so hospitable for something that doesn't affect you. :cool:
I read a post in the Samsung thread where someone seemed to be explaining what I am seeing and they called Samsung and was told the TV needed to be replaced. I think I'm going to try a Toshiba. Between motion blur, crushing colors, backlight bleeding, bad de-interlacing and a faulty composite input, I think I can do better than this.

Wow, that's a sad set of issues! Good luck, let us know how you make out.

fireshoes

12-26-06, 11:30 PM

I have noticed the poor picture quality on KDIN as well. I'm of the opinion that multicasting is to blame. To me, they consistently have the worst picture.

patrickf3

12-27-06, 05:48 PM

I have heard a few people talk about this before but here I go: before, I was living in Johnston Iowa (near saylorville) and I was receiving channels like this: 5.1, 8.1, 8.2, 11.1, 11.2, 13.1, 13.2?, 17.1....

and now I am living in another house in johnston, near merdith drive....and I am getting channels like this: 8.1, 8.2, 13.1, 115.1 (pbs) , 115.2 (abc) ... so, now I am missing 17.1, and 11.2 (the music channel) I am using the same TV (a toshiba 32in), and I have done nothing with the settings, just moved the TV. I have a bunch of "encrypted" hd channels show up when I scan for channels, however 17.1 isn't showing up...and I really hoped to have KDSM.

Any idea why this would be happening?

Thanks

kc0bsn

12-27-06, 08:43 PM

Patrick,

When you lived in your previous house were you using cable to receive your digital channels? It sounds like now your TV is hooked up to cable/Mediacom and is receiving the channels through the QAM receiver, but before you were using an antenna on the house. If your TV has two antenna inputs on the back, you can hook up an antenna and then you can try receiving 17.1 & 17.2. Right now Mediacom doesn't carry KDSM, and probably won't for a while since they're fighting like a family during the holidays.

markjl

12-28-06, 10:49 AM

Any new news on Directv carrying the local high definition stations in Des Moines?

Mark

hasan

12-29-06, 09:46 AM

Any new news on Directv carrying the local high definition stations in Des Moines?

Mark

My source to D* has been very quiet. When I had contact with him several weeks ago he said 60% chance by end of year, 100% chance within 45 days. Nothing new since then. (except we got OTA turned on for the HR20, and it works great!) (if you don't need 23-1, and some of the other sub-channels. The major networks work fine)

markjl

12-29-06, 11:24 AM

My source to D* has been very quiet. When I had contact with him several weeks ago he said 60% chance by end of year, 100% chance within 45 days. Nothing new since then. (except we got OTA turned on for the HR20, and it works great!) (if you don't need 23-1, and some of the other sub-channels. The major networks work fine)

Thanks for the info, Hasan. I currently have the "old" Directv high def TIVO. How does the HR20 compare for OTA recording? Also, the more I read, the more it seems that the OTA will usually be superior to any local high def that Dirctv carries. My wife just wants me to get rid of the antenna on the roof, but I think I may prevail.

Mark

hasan

12-29-06, 04:41 PM

Thanks for the info, Hasan. I currently have the "old" Directv high def TIVO. How does the HR20 compare for OTA recording? Also, the more I read, the more it seems that the OTA will usually be superior to any local high def that Dirctv carries. My wife just wants me to get rid of the antenna on the roof, but I think I may prevail.

Mark

Keep that antenna on the roof! It will be a long time, if ever, that D* or anyone else can equal the quality of OTA-HD.

I've only had the HR20, so I can't compare it to another DVR. It's OTA works pretty well, but it's still early...lots of improvement needed. PQ (picture quality) is excellent. It is more stable than my Samsung 360 HD D* receiver was (especially in the last six months).

The HR20 is not for the faint of heart at this time. About 3 out of 4 (with a sample of 325 people on dbstalk.com) were at least somewhat satisfied or very satisfied. About 1 in 4 were barely satisfied, somewhat satisfied, or very disssatisfied (about 9% in this last group). So, as long as you are one of the 75% (like me), you should be happy. The people who are having problems are going nuts.

If you can wait, I would wait, unless you like being an early adopter. I love mine, and am very happy....but it ain't perfect :rolleyes:

They are updating it frequently (downloading new code to it via satellite, automatically).

MPEG-4/HD-Locals via D* have some problems....some worse than others. A lot depends on how it is supplied to D* (encoding problems). Also, you should understand that the MPEG-4/HD-Locals get to D* via OTA pickup and then are transcoded to MPEG-4....so...you are going like this:

MPEG-2 OTA > D* > Transcode MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 > Put on Satellite + Compress/Bit Starve > Decode MPEG-4 on your HR20.

It is pretty obvious that cutting D* out of the picture (pun intended) for your OTA viewing is a good idea, and it likely to be so for quite a long time.

markjl

12-29-06, 05:59 PM

Keep that antenna on the roof! It will be a long time, if ever, that D* or anyone else can equal the quality of OTA-HD.

I've only had the HR20, so I can't compare it to another DVR. It's OTA works pretty well, but it's still early...lots of improvement needed. PQ (picture quality) is excellent. It is more stable than my Samsung 360 HD D* receiver was (especially in the last six months).

The HR20 is not for the faint of heart at this time. About 3 out of 4 (with a sample of 325 people on dbstalk.com) were at least somewhat satisfied or very satisfied. About 1 in 4 were barely satisfied, somewhat satisfied, or very disssatisfied (about 9% in this last group). So, as long as you are one of the 75% (like me), you should be happy. The people who are having problems are going nuts.

If you can wait, I would wait, unless you like being an early adopter. I love mine, and am very happy....but it ain't perfect :rolleyes:

They are updating it frequently (downloading new code to it via satellite, automatically).

MPEG-4/HD-Locals via D* have some problems....some worse than others. A lot depends on how it is supplied to D* (encoding problems). Also, you should understand that the MPEG-4/HD-Locals get to D* via OTA pickup and then are transcoded to MPEG-4....so...you are going like this:

MPEG-2 OTA > D* > Transcode MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 > Put on Satellite + Compress/Bit Starve > Decode MPEG-4 on your HR20.

It is pretty obvious that cutting D* out of the picture (pun intended) for your OTA viewing is a good idea, and it likely to be so for quite a long time.

hassan:

Thanks for your response; I now have documented proof to show my wife on keeping the antenna :D. I never thought about all the conversions that the locals would have to go through to get on the satellite. Good point.

I was once an early adopter with the Hr 10-250 HD Tivo, and I currently have two. I think that until Directv shuts off the high def MPEG-2 channels or adds compelling new high def in mpeg-4 only, I'll stick with what I have. Surprisingly, since the last update the TIVO has been pretty stable.

Thanks again

Mark

msgc95

01-01-07, 05:35 PM

It sounds like D* is going to be a while before they get the Des Moines Locals in HD :eek: I'm too far away for an antenna, and I currently am eligible for all of the HD long distance locals except for ABC.......................................and WOI won't grant me a waiver dang it! I'm thinking about calling them personally. Has anyone ever had success trying this...............or I guess, has anyone ever tried it?

kc0bsn

01-01-07, 08:25 PM

Beginning Jan 1, the FCC rules for childrens programming, EAS and probably other rules kicked into effect for analog and digital stations. One of the rules that is having the most effect are the childrens rules of which one part says stations must broadcast 3 hours of programming per channel. This includes sub-channels.

It looks like the first casualty of the new year is 17-2 "The Tube" as it's now the SD version of KDSM. I fully expect 13-2's Mega Doppler to disappear soon as well. All the other local subchannels are probably safe: 8.2 is airing kids shows @ 12.30pm, 11.1 & 11.2 already have kids shows in the mornings, and 23.1 & 56.1 each have kid shows either in the morning or on the weekend.

mikel51

01-01-07, 08:41 PM

I set up an antenna today to start getting fox in case mediacom and sinclair don't work things out. I did manage to get 17.1, and I find that all of the fox programming tonight is in SD, and to fill the 16:9 screen they stretch it.

As I scanned through the next few weeks, on TitanTV, there seems to be little programming in HD. For those of you that have been watching FOX 17.1, do they skimp on HD programming?

dline

01-01-07, 08:47 PM

I've spent limited time over there lately, but as far as I know, if Fox sends KDSM HD programming, KDSM airs it in HD.

It would be nice if they got rid of the stretch, though. The same company owns our CBS affiliate, and they stopped stretching their non-HD programming recently.

kc0bsn

01-01-07, 08:49 PM

The game right now is in HD. Usually the TitanTV guide is pretty accurate, so I'm not sure what's up there. The local commercials & programming will be stretched, but any Fox network stuff aired as it's sent will be in its original aspect ratio.

bubbatdog

01-02-07, 11:32 PM

Anybody had any luck with HD service in Ames. I have Mediacom service, but if I could get my locals with an antenna I would love to have at least HD locals. Help please.

denyart

01-03-07, 12:34 AM

Yes, HD locals are not too hard to get in Ames. I am on the SW side and I get them with a Silver Sensor-like antenna in my attic. Your line of sight to the south (Alleman) is the only question.

Stellcat

01-03-07, 01:39 AM

I live in SW Ames near Highway 30. The Alleman towers are about 13-15 miles south. I do live in an apartment building and face NW however. Is that a problem if I use an indoor antenna?

bubbatdog

01-03-07, 08:31 AM

hasan

01-03-07, 09:29 AM

I also live on the SW part of Ames. If I have a new tv that has a built in tuner, can I just add an antenna and pull HD. I just want the locals w/o having to pay $18 a month to mediacom. I also have a HD tv w/o a tuner built in. Do you guys/gals recommend calling Mediacom with that tv, or buying a seperate reciever?

Yes, you can simply add an antenna to the TV and pull in HD just fine (assuming it has an internal ATSC/HD tuner...and you said it did).

Two antennas you can try, both cheap, but work very well:

Indoor: Silver Sensor (google it...buy at Amazon)

Indoor Attic or Outdoor: Radio Shack U-75

They are 25 bucks or so. Both are UHF only. (which all our channels are for the moment)

If you buy the U-75, you will need some feedline for it (RG-6)

denyart

01-03-07, 02:20 PM

As for the TV without HD built in...that can be up to you. If you buy a receiver (keep in mind these things are becoming more rare as most TVs have it built in) you should be able to get the same reception as that built into your other set. There are a few options that are just OTA ATSC tuners, and some add unencrypted QAM (digital cable) as well. If you want to get adventurous you can even put a HD tuner card in your PC and watch HD that way. With the right hardware you can do this on your TV as well, not just on the computer monitor. Anyway I think you have plenty to think about. If you are still curious about any of this feel free to ask.

bubbatdog

01-03-07, 07:48 PM

do you have a recommendation on equipment if I go with a reciever? I think I can get one for $150. That is less than 10 months of service with Mediacom

Stellcat

01-04-07, 03:02 PM

hasan

01-04-07, 05:49 PM

ankenyclone

01-04-07, 06:07 PM

Anyone get Medicaom HD or heard any opinions on it?

I get free cable in my apartment so if I was to upgrade the Digital cable HD package with HBO, it'd only cost me around 40 dollars.

Just curious what people think. I've heard horror stories about satellite HD so I was wondering if cable was any better

I have had Mediacom HDTV for about a year and a half. Outside of the fact that they never add any channels (I think 1 in the past year, and that was INHD), it is a very good picture. I have the DVR which works great as well. Of course I have the 120 GB model, while my brother has the 160 GB model so he is able to keep more archived.

Of course the bill gets high once you add all these services, but I am kind of out of options because I use them for internet too, and I do watch a lot of the Cyclone games on Mediacom ch 22, as well as the Cy-Hawk talk show (and you can't get those on a dish).

One bad thing for Mediacom, we may not have KDSM (Fox 17) after today I believe. I am thinking of a second HDTV this weekend just so I don't have to fool around with an analog antenna and an A/B switch. :mad:

Stellcat

01-04-07, 07:19 PM

Yeah hopefully the Sinclair-Mediacom feud can get settled last minute before Sinclair pulls the plug. I heard Mediacom will be giving out free anennas to people here in Ames if Sinclair pulls the station as a way to keep people from going to dish. We get free cable where I live and I asked our property management what they would do and they said they had some deal arranged with Mediacom if it happens to keep the station on our sets.

Whatever happens, this is all about money and us customers caught in the middle are the ones who will be affected most by it.

mikel51

01-04-07, 09:17 PM

I also use Mediacom for HD. The picture is pretty good and it is a convenient package for high speed internet access. Mediacom here has more HD channels than Comcast had in the San Francisco area (where i lived up until the beginning of 2006). As others mentioned, the downsides are the cost and the situation with Fox. Up until now, we have only had Fox in standard def. Hopefully when they work out a new deal, it will include hidef for fox. In the meantime I set up an indoor antenna that gets me reception most of the time.

iowahawkeye

01-05-07, 04:29 PM

Looks like KDSM is going off Mediacom tonite. http://www.befairsinclair.com/

dline

01-05-07, 05:54 PM

In other news, The Des Moines Register (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070105/BUSINESS/701050349/1029/BUSINESShttp://) is reporting that WHO-TV/DT and WQAD have been sold to an investment group called Oak Hill Capital Partners, along with the rest of the New York Times Company Broadcast Group.

The sale still must be approved by the FCC.

dline

01-05-07, 06:10 PM

Looks like KDSM is going off Mediacom tonite. http://www.befairsinclair.com/Unfortunately nothing I've seen on the web gives me any reason for encouragement. Mediacom seems unusually resigned to losing Fox 17 and (in our area) CBS 2 while we wait to see if Sinclair will agree to Mediacom's offer for binding arbitration.

bubbatdog

01-06-07, 06:35 PM

Anybody using a qam tuner in either of these areas? How does it work? Good/BAd

Jmacshriver

01-06-07, 10:26 PM

I have a built in one on my TV and I get 5,8,11,13

I also get the digital audio channels

grinner

01-07-07, 05:04 PM

I live about 90 miles away in Ottumwa, do you think it is possible to receive digital channels from Des Moines with a good ota antenna? I checked with antenna web and it does not include Des Moines.

scott.westerman

01-07-07, 05:22 PM

Here's the latest on the Mediacom / Sinclair issue. Some time ago, we floated the idea of binding arbitration, where we both put our deals on the table and a third party makes the call, leaving the Sinclair stations on during the process. Last week, the FCC's Media Bureau agreed that this was a good route to a quick resolution and strongly recommended that Sinclair join us at the table. So far, Sinclair has ignored both our entreaties and those of the FCC, and we were told to take KDSM and KGAN off of the system Friday at midnight.

So far, customers have been very supportive. We've distibuted several thousand antennas and in many parts of Des Moines, they seem to give a passable digital signal.

It's still a major inconvenience and we apologize if you're among those effected.

We're disappointed that Sinclair has put our customers in the middle of this but are hopeful that some political pressure will be brought to bear as more and more Iowans contact their legislators. Many of the folks who came by the Ingersol office today told us that they planned to do this on Monday.

I'm glad to answer any questions you may have about Mediacom HD, the Sinclair issue, or any other aspect of the Mediacom experience. Feel free to ask here, or write to me directly.

(It looks like the system won't let me input an email address until I've made five posts but its scottwesterman at the mchsi domain)

Scott Westerman
Group Vice President
Mediacom Communcations Corporation

kc0bsn

01-07-07, 05:25 PM

I live about 90 miles away in Ottumwa, do you think it is possible to receive digital channels from Des Moines with a good ota antenna? I checked with antenna web and it does not include Des Moines.You may be stretching it to receive them from that distance. I was able to get KDSM, WHO, KDIN, and occasionally KCCI-DT with a 5th gen receiver at my home in Clarksville which is 84 miles 80 miles NE of Alleman, but with an earlier receiver chip the SNR was too low and it couldn't quite pick things out. I'd imagine your results could be about the same or maybe even worse depending upon where exactly along the Des Moines River valley you are situated at.

Here's a generic contour service map from Alleman sites, I was outside of it in Clarksville as well, but like I said, with a newer receiver was able to receive a good number of the stations. (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TV1069205.html)

denyart

01-07-07, 06:25 PM

You may be able to receive them, but UHF has a hard time traveling that far. When they switch over their signals entirely, they may pick up high VHF channels which should travel that far. Unfortunately this transition may also entail lowering their power. They are really being limited by FCC regulaters to broadcast withing a reasonable area. It is normal to expect that in your case (with Quad cities stations much closer) that you shouldn't need the Des Moines stations.

Pellakin

01-07-07, 07:49 PM

I've had my HDTV for a few months now and recently my "introductory offer" from MediaCom also expired. I added the HDTV tuner package while I still had the lower rates, and the first bill with those charges coincided with the expiration of the introductory rates.

So, that first big bill took the monthly bill from $77 to $123. That includes high-speed internet, of course.

Anyway, I'm trying to explore options for cutting this bill back, and I guess I wondered what I can tweak in my services to save a few bucks.

Right now, I basically have the 1 star Digital STARZ package with Family Cable (Basic and Expanded), plus the HDTV tier, with HDTV receiver. The bill also lists "Digital Plus" package for $8.00.

I'm keeping the HDTV receiver because that's the only way to get ESPN-HD. I don't really watch the other HD channels off the box, but I may get into them eventually. I also will need to keep the full Family Cable package, because I won't settle for the channels they have on "Basic Service." The access to Starz and the pay-per-view/VOD stuff is not really important if I can save a few dollars.

My HDTV has an integrated tuner that, when the line is split just after the wall, allows access to all the channels I paid for and that I want to watch without even needing to use the cable box. All I use the box for now, really, is to do some PPV/Starz on Demand, and to watch ESPN-HD.

Basically, based on some posts further back, I'm curious if I can ditch the digital/digital starz/on demand/PPV, etc. portion of the package and still have the HDTV receiver/tier.

Or do you need to have a digital package to HAVE the HDTV receiver, too? I just assumed it was a package deal - I mean, can they "turn off" all the digital channels and leave just the handful of HDTV channels available on my box, leaving me paying less because I was able to get rid of the digital portion?

Thanks for your feedback.

jjallou

01-07-07, 08:41 PM

iowahawkeye

01-08-07, 08:49 PM

Here's what you will want to follow: $inclair has a date with Time Warner and the BIG DOG/Comcast. TW on 1/12 and Comcast on 2/5 Who knows if $inclair & Mediacom will get together soon.
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6404747.html?display=Breaking+News

cornholio69

01-09-07, 08:41 AM

svsneo

01-09-07, 11:07 AM

svsneo

01-09-07, 11:09 AM

I have a question. Wouldn't it be a reasonable alternative for Mediacom to replace all of their cableboxes/DVRs with new models capable of recording OTA signals, as directv has done? I understand that it would be a sizeable expenditure, but if it's less than what Sinclair is asking for, it would be worth it. It would get Mediacom out from under Sinclair's thumb, it would be seamless to the customer, and it would make HD customers extremely happy, too.

Perhaps this has already been considered and discarded, but if it has, I'd be curious as to why it's not feasible.

Thanks

What about the basic cable subscribers? The ones that don't use a STB. They would be SOL.

tker32

01-09-07, 12:39 PM

Pellakin

01-09-07, 01:19 PM

Pellakin,
As long as your TV has a QAM tuner you will be able to get most of your HDTV. You will still get all your locals in HD but not ESPN or STARZ in HD. I do this with my bedroom LCD and it works pretty well. You also get access to the non-encrpyted PPV/ON-Demand channels. These can run from 1 movie/show at a time to 20 or 30. Be careful channel surfing these with younger kids around as you can get some Adult PPV. You're also at the mercy of what that person is doing, i.e. ff, rew, stop in the middle of the show.

Yeah - it has a QAM tuner in it. It basically has multiple inputs and sources, including a dedicated Antenna feed, dedicated cable feed, then the various HDMI, Component, Composite, etc. jacks. I basically split my cable from the wall and run one into the TV tuner directly (watch most everything off this feed anyway - so I wouldn't really miss the on-screen guide) and another to the HDTV cable box which I HDMI out to the TV (basically only used for ESPN HD).

Right now I'm picking up all the OTA standard and HD stations fine off the Antenna input, including KDSM, and I can skip my cable box entirely to get all the regular cable channels I subscribe to.

This also includes those "extra" channels you mention, that I find up at 102.XX and 103.XX series, skipping over to 115.2 and 115.4 (WOI and something else I never watch), then up to 116.XX again for more of that "bonus" material. (tker32 - those are the stations I get in West Des Moines - 102.1 is the PPV preview channel, then the rest - aside from 115.2 and 115.4 are the "random" PPV channels)

My main question is whether I can call Mediacom and just cancel my Digital package entirely, getting the cost savings, but also keeping my HDTV box-set to keep access to ESPN HD. I don't need the on-screen programming guide, PPV, On-Demand, or any of that other stuff I used to use the STB for before I ordered the HDTV package. Pretty much ALL I actually use the box for is to get ESPN HD right now, so I'd like to get rid of digital.

Or do I have to stay subscribed to SOME digital package to be able to keep and use my current HDTV box?

Put another way, I know I can get cable on a TV without a box, as I have that in my bedroom, now. But if I call to cancel digital cable, are they going to tell me, "Well sir, we show that you have an HDTV set-top box, so you'll either have to continue one of our digital packages or, if you choose to cancel digital anyway, you'll have to bring that box in and cancel your HDTV service too."...?

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I just assume that if I still have a STB (to get the HDTV content) that they can't just disable the core digital properties of the box that they charge people extra for, so they insist I have to pay for those services if I choose to keep the box for HD. Or can they just disable all the bells and whistles on the box?

cornholio69

01-09-07, 01:19 PM

What about the basic cable subscribers? The ones that don't use a STB. They would be SOL.
True. However, just because they don't need one, doesn't mean they can't have one. I have basic only, and I got one just for the HD DVR functionality.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but I think it's a viable one for the situation. On top of that, it's probably an upgrade that Mediacom was going to have to make eventually to stay competitive with satellite. Doing this would make Mediacom their customers' hero, make them look cutting edge with their technology, solve their Sinclair problem, and provide HD from all local stations to their customers. I don't know how the cost would compare to what Sinclair is asking, but I would think not being held hostage like this again would be worth quite a bit.

Pellakin

01-09-07, 01:33 PM

In other news, I'm not sure how widespread the information is, but Mediacom is giving out antennas today (Tues, Jan 9th) from 11AM - 2PM at the Adventureland parking lot and the HyVee just off I-35 south at Mills Civic Parkway, in addition to the Ingersoll location.

They have a truck set up on the West side of HyVee, and they aren't checking anything off a list - just walk up and ask for one. You've got it and you're out in seconds.

Jmacshriver

01-09-07, 01:45 PM

tker32

01-09-07, 02:23 PM

This also includes those "extra" channels you mention, that I find up at 102.XX and 103.XX series, skipping over to 115.2 and 115.4 (WOI and something else I never watch), then up to 116.XX again for more of that "bonus" material. (tker32 - those are the stations I get in West Des Moines - 102.1 is the PPV preview channel, then the rest - aside from 115.2 and 115.4 are the "random" PPV channels)

I have also seen movies/PPV/OD on 104.xx when 102 and 103 is fairly full. It's only happened on a couple nights since I've had my new TV (about 3 weeks now)

svsneo

01-09-07, 05:54 PM

Pellakin,
I'm not sure on whether you can keep the HDTV teir without a digital cable package. I would assume you could, but the best idea is to just call them up and ask, they would be able to provide you with the best information.

My PPV/OD works a bit different then yours since I'm in Waterloo. Mine is from 100.1-10, 101.1-10, 102.1-10, and 103.1-10. The way that they issue spots is kinda weird, usually starting with the 10's and working their way down, so sometimes it takes a bit of search to find content.

dmclone

01-09-07, 06:08 PM

I pulled the trigger yesterday and ordered Directv. I didn't do this because of the whole Sinclair thing (I tend to agree with Mediacom).

I was pretty happy with the Mediacom HD DVR but for the money I think you get a lot more through Directv.

I'm getting one standard definition DVR and also the HD20 for the basement I'm finishing. The drywall is about ready to go up so I thought it would be a good time to make the change.

hasan

01-09-07, 07:17 PM

dmclone

01-09-07, 07:34 PM

Yep HR20. I also made sure to get the slimline dish. Once done I hope to connect it to a Sanyo Z5 with a 99" screen via HDMI.

smoove

01-09-07, 08:30 PM

My main question is whether I can call Mediacom and just cancel my Digital package entirely, getting the cost savings, but also keeping my HDTV box-set to keep access to ESPN HD. I don't need the on-screen programming guide, PPV, On-Demand, or any of that other stuff I used to use the STB for before I ordered the HDTV package. Pretty much ALL I actually use the box for is to get ESPN HD right now, so I'd like to get rid of digital.

Or do I have to stay subscribed to SOME digital package to be able to keep and use my current HDTV box?

For what it's worth, I am a Mediacom subscriber and I just have their Family Cable package and the HDTV tier (as well as Mediacom Online). No Digital Plus or Star Paks or whatever. The difference is, however, I'm using a CableCard supplied by Mediacom with my TV, not a DVR/box. So, it is in a way possible, just can't say for sure if it's the case if you have a box.

In other news, I picked the free antenna offered by Mediacom after work today. At least I get FoxHD and CW-HD now (which I didn't before) though I wish I was able to get the antenna yesterday for the game (such as it was).

kc0bsn

01-10-07, 03:35 AM

13.2 WHO's Mega Doppler is the most recent casualty of the new FCC Children's Programming rules. The message says they hope to be back soon, so I wonder if that means they'll be working to get WeatherPlus on the air.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/352585468_6f5db3efe2_o.jpg

And 34.1 KEFB is now on the third subchannel of KDMI.

ltrain20

01-11-07, 04:13 PM

Hasan
Any update on the HD Locals on DirectTV. Had a couple people ask who have struggled to get them via antenna.

Got the Elvis update the other night and hoped maybe that would fix not getting a few stations via antenna. Hopefully they get others fixed soon as I want to see Smallville in HD. I know the CW will not be included in the current locals anyway so I switched gears on you there.

I will say I am getting better signal strength on channel 5-1 after the update. I checked just before I updated and then about 30 minutes after and it had increased. May have been a coinicidence but from the one check it seemed better.

kc0bsn

01-11-07, 09:33 PM

Any update on the HD Locals on DirectTV. Had a couple people ask who have struggled to get them via antenna.Word has it over at the HD in Oklahoma board that there have been delays and they aren't expecting to offer HD locals until late 2007. OKC was listed in the same press release that had Des Moines as getting HD locals.

OKC local HD feeds not until late 2007 (http://www.hdtvok.com/?a=xdforum&xdforum_action=viewthread&xf_id=40&xt_id=107)

mikel51

01-11-07, 10:03 PM

Since the loss of Fox on our cable system, I have been playing with antennas, trying to make sure that I can get Fox in time for 24. I don't want to mount an external roof antenna because I believe that KDSM and Mediacom will work things out when they come to their senses.

I had a Silver Sensor laying around. When I first moved to Urbandale, I tried it and didn't get any reception--but I didn't really try to optimize.

Last week, I took the Slver Sensor out of mothballs. I was barely able to get any channels, but I did manage to get 8.1 and 8.2. Then I dug up my old Motorola amplifier, and I could get channel 17.1 when I pointed the antenna in the right direction. Then I got a Terk TV5 amplified antenna. This allowed me to get 11.1, 11.2, 17.1, 17.2, sometimes 23.1, 34.1 and 56.1. Reception is pretty intermittant and by turning the antenna I would get different channels. I just received a Terrestial DB2 antenna. This gives the best signal yet. Now I am getting 5.1, 11.1, 11.2, 17.1, 17.2, 23.1, 34.1 and 56.1. I did get my TV to find 13.1 and 13.2 on the scan, but I didn't get any signal. One thing I don't understand is my inability to get 8.1 or 8,2. When I was using the silver sensor, they were the best, and perhaps only, channels I could tune. Now my channel scan doesn't even find them.

Now I guess I need to get an HD tuner card for my computer so that I can set up a PVR. Any recommendations about the tuner with the best sensitivity? I sure hope that KDSM and Mediacom come to their senses so I can stop messing with this stuff.

dline

01-12-07, 04:16 AM

13.2 WHO's Mega Doppler is the most recent casualty of the new FCC Children's Programming rules. The message says they hope to be back soon, so I wonder if that means they'll be working to get WeatherPlus on the air.I wouldn't be surprised. It's my understanding that the New York Times station in Oklahoma City (KFOR, also NBC) was already airing Weather Plus. In fact, because of that I'm surprised WHO didn't take it already and that they allowed KCCI to beat them to the punch with Weather Now.

BTW, if 13 dropped radar just because of the children's show rules, isn't them having that disclaimer on 13-2 still an issue? After all, if radar is programming, you'd have to think that a full-screen disclaimer is programming, too.

Too bad about the radar, though. I have a relative in central Iowa who really liked being able to turn to 13-2 and see it.

ltrain20

01-12-07, 12:05 PM

scott.westerman

01-12-07, 04:03 PM

I'm trying to explore options for cutting this bill back, and I guess I wondered what I can tweak in my services to save a few bucks.

Thanks very much for the question. In response to your inquiry regarding whether or not your digital 1 star package is optional, the answer is "yes."

You could drop that service, however your savings would be minimal--around $6 per month. Having the access to the Starz and Starz On Demand movies (over 300 different titles each month), Video on Demand, and the digital music channels proves to be of great value to many customers.

We tell customers that the convenience of having all of those movies choices at your fingertips instead of venturing out to the video store is certainly a factor to consider.

Some folks are adding Mediacom phone service if it is available. The package rate is often less than you pay for both video and phone separately.

In any case, you do have some options and a customer service representative could review these with you by calling 1-800-332-0245. Thanks again for the question.

Scott Westerman

denyart

01-12-07, 04:17 PM

...Now I guess I need to get an HD tuner card for my computer so that I can set up a PVR. Any recommendations about the tuner with the best sensitivity? ... I have had the best sensitivity with VBox DTA-150 tuners (versus AverMedia MCE A180 and ATI HDTV Wonder and ATI TV Wonder 650). I have also heard that DVICo Fusion 5 tuners are about as good as the VBox DTA 150. There are many tuners on the market today, but most of them will require software to run them such as Windows Media Center 2005. Some include their own software, but some of that software is very dodgy. There is one other company that makes very good tuners called MyHD, but those tuners are entirely different in that they use there own software and hardware for everything. They do a good job, but they don't work in software such as Media Center 2005 or BeyondTV. I could add more, but this thread is supposed to be about central Iowa reception (not that a reception deivce such as this doesn't count :) ).

hasan

01-12-07, 07:10 PM

I talked to Direct and got the same message of late 2007 a while back but then Hasan had posted after this about the 100% within 45 days information.

I figure the CSRs are only reading what it says in the system and hope that is not what will actually happen. I have been getting almost evertything OTA so really is not a big issue for me but I have a few friends who struggle to get 5.1 very well.

Unfortunately, I have been unable to get any news about HD Locals fm D*. I'll see if I can tap that source "one more time". I wouldn't necessarily tie what's going on in Oklahoma to the Des Moines DMA, however.

It will be interesting to see if this source "backs away" from the initial info he provided me :confused:

cpwilde

01-13-07, 09:25 AM

I did get my TV to find 13.1 and 13.2 on the scan, but I didn't get any signal. One thing I don't understand is my inability to get 8.1 or 8,2. When I was using the silver sensor, they were the best, and perhaps only, channels I could tune. Now my channel scan doesn't even find them.

Looks like you are having difficulty receiving what, for a lot of people, are the two strongest digital signals, and what was the strongest for you in the beginning. I think it's likely that the amplified antennas are making those two stations too strong, and overdriving the input of your tuner on those two stations. Is the Motorola amplifier still in the circuit? You might try removing that and see if the situation improves. If you find you still need the amplifier to receive the weaker stations, you could try to find a happy medium on the amount of amplification. I don't know if there's any way to adjust level on that amplifier, but if not you could get some in-line RF attenuators, and try out some various sizes. I've seen variable attenuators, before, too, but I'm not sure where to find one right now.

SnakeEyes

01-13-07, 04:29 PM

Should I be getting 5.1 audio from WHO-DT?

Snagelpuss

01-13-07, 05:19 PM

I just tried tuning in to 17.1 and get zero signal. Anyone else having trouble with it today. I was wanting to watch the hawkeyes ota. I have 17 through dish but the picture quality is terrible.
Just wondered if anyone else is having reception problems today. I have always gotten 17.1 with no problems.

kc0bsn

01-13-07, 05:25 PM

KDSM-DT is fine for me in Urbandale.

renstyle

01-15-07, 11:48 AM

hasan

01-16-07, 01:37 PM

Heyas,

Long time lurker, first time posting in the DM forum. I've recently settled in north Boone, Iowa and was wondering if anybody would like to relate their experiences with pickup of the digital signals from the Alleman towers. If you could also let me know what type of setup you have (tower, attic, pole-mount, rabbit ears, etc), and the type of antenna you use, with or without amplification I would greatly appreciate it.

I have a smaller sized Winegard PR9014 which I am planning on pole mounting about 25-30' above our relatively-level ground here in north Boone. All of the DT signals that I want to receive are at 138-140 degrees from my home. Aside from the normal trees in the neighbors yard (I have no trees on my south lawn) and obstructions between myself and the towers, I think I should be able to get most of what I need with no amplifier.

Can anybody offer more information regarding this area and what you are seeing? I need to know where to set my expectations.

I will be hooking up the old rabbit ears direct to the TV initially to test the waters, and to see how well the VHF signals are handled. I may be upgrading to a dual VHF/UHF antenna if the signal is good enuf on the analogue side for general viewing (kids, pbs, etc).

I do not have, nor do I want to deal with Mediacom cable. Thankfully I just moved into an area that is served by DSL so I don't even need cable modem! :)

Thanks for looking,

I live about 3 miles north of Ogden, so I'm farther away than you are. I am on pretty high ground, 1135' elevation. I'm using a medium sized channel master combo vhf/uhf yagi on top of a two story house with about 40' of RG-6 feedline. I have not tried rabbit ears or an indoor antenna....just not my way of doing things.

Here are my results:

Channel Signal Level (Samsung HDTV) Signal Level DirecTV HR20

5.1 6.5/10 58%
8.1 10/10 100%
11.1 9.0/10 95%
13.1 9.5/10 100%
17.1 7.0/10 80%
23.1 6.0/10 Not Available
56.1 5.0/10 Not Available

The 2nd column is signal strength on a 0-10 scale on my Samsung HL-R5667W, the 3rd column is the signal strength on my HR20 DVR using its OTA tuner. Keep in mind in both cases, you aren't measuring actual signal strength, but rather some variant of BER (bit error rate) on the signal, which is the standard for evaluating digital signals. I am not subject to multi-path issues at this location, and I don't think you will be either.

Assuming you aren't down in the Des Moines River valley or in some sort of hole, you should get a good, serviceable signal from Alleman, but I wouldn't count on just an indoor set of rabbit ears. I think you could use an attic antenna, but I would make it the best Channel Master I could afford, as you lose signficant signal coming through the roof.

All the analog channels come in fine on the same antenna, with ABC (CH 5) being the most susceptible to local power line noise because it is running low power.

All the HD channels are currently on UHF....but....several will return to VHF in the next year or two, so I would "future proof" my antenna purchase by getting the best combo VHF/UHF antenna you can afford, put it up and be done with it.

Snagelpuss

01-17-07, 08:42 AM

bde2005

01-17-07, 09:06 AM

Hello,
I posted this a few days back and got a response from someone in Urbandale, who said things are working fine for them. I have been getting the KDSM 17.1,17.2 HD channels with no problem for a couple of years over the air from my antenna mounted on top of my two story house in Gowrie. The signal has always been 75% or better with no drop outs. All of a sudden last Saturday I get zero signal, then on Sunday I tried it again and it was coming in at 76% and would ocassionally say the off air signal was lost but it would come right back on at 76% or so. Now last night and this morning I have zero signal again. Has any one further away from the towers had trouble over the last few days? I am getting 5,8,13,11 all with no troubles, no drop in signal at all. Makes me think maybe KDSM changed something, I can't imagine that with the other channels all working that it would be a problem on my end.

Any feedback would be appreciated. It is too cold to go climb up on the roof and rotate the antenna right now to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks
I also experienced KDSM problems over the weekend, and was unable to watch any football on Fox in HD. :-(

All other stations were coming in great for me at the time, so I don't think it was a problem at my place.

I did call them but was only able to reach the news desk, which wasn't any help at all. He just kept saying that there was nobody around.

Very annoying!!

Good thing the Superbowl is on CBS this year.

n691665x

01-17-07, 09:22 AM

I live in Clive (just west of I-80 on Hickman Rd) and haven't noticed any problems with Fox. I watched the NFL game from start to finish in HD on Sunday, and I just use a little indoor antenna that sits next to my TV.

hasan

01-17-07, 09:32 AM

Hello,
I posted this a few days back and got a response from someone in Urbandale, who said things are working fine for them. I have been getting the KDSM 17.1,17.2 HD channels with no problem for a couple of years over the air from my antenna mounted on top of my two story house in Gowrie. The signal has always been 75% or better with no drop outs. All of a sudden last Saturday I get zero signal, then on Sunday I tried it again and it was coming in at 76% and would ocassionally say the off air signal was lost but it would come right back on at 76% or so. Now last night and this morning I have zero signal again. Has any one further away from the towers had trouble over the last few days? I am getting 5,8,13,11 all with no troubles, no drop in signal at all. Makes me think maybe KDSM changed something, I can't imagine that with the other channels all working that it would be a problem on my end.

Any feedback would be appreciated. It is too cold to go climb up on the roof and rotate the antenna right now to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks

I saw no problems with 17.1 during either of the playoff (NFL) sessions. I recorded them in HD with my D* HR20 and they looked great. I measure signal levels just about every day and have not seen a signal problem from 17.1 ...see my earlier post for signal levels. I live about 3 miles north of Ogden, so am about 26 miles or so from the tower complex.

bde2005

01-17-07, 09:48 AM

Well I guess I'll have to rescan for channels again, thanks for the info.

Snagelpuss

01-17-07, 09:49 AM

I saw no problems with 17.1 during either of the playoff (NFL) sessions. I recorded them in HD with my D* HR20 and they looked great. I measure signal levels just about every day and have not seen a signal problem from 17.1 ...see my earlier post for signal levels. I live about 3 miles north of Ogden, so am about 26 miles or so from the tower complex.

I am about 47 miles from the towers, so I am about 20 miles farther away than you are. Don't know if there signal strength could have gone down or what. All other HD stations are coming in as strong as ever for me. I sent them an email to see if they changed the signal output, but at this point have not heard anything back.
Thanks for our feedback.

denyart

01-17-07, 10:10 AM

It may be (just may be) that the winter weather has modified the transmission characteristics to your location or your antenna.

Snagelpuss

01-17-07, 10:35 AM

It may be (just may be) that the winter weather has modified the transmission characteristics to your location or your antenna.

I had that thought in the back of my mind as well. Didn't know if that could actually cause changes in transmission or not. I guess I also thought that if the weather was affecting it, that the other stations would show signs of the same problem. This is the first real cold spell of the year and first real snowfall of the year. Will have to see what the next few weeks bring. I won't be on the roof to investigate until it warms up anyway. Maybe by then it will take care of itself and come back.

I do get fox through dish, but on my rear projection 51" tv the picture quality on that station leaves a bit to be desired.

denyart

01-17-07, 03:42 PM

Well if it is your antenna, then one particular piece being damaged or modified can affect just that frequency range (it depends a little on antenna design if this can be the case), but as for transmission in the atmosphere it can also vary according to frequency but you would probably see an effect on nearby neighbors in the frequency spectrum as well. If you keep seeing a problem you should post more particulars such as tuner/set type and maybe someone can track this down. There was a case a while back where one networks signal had something in it that caused certain tuners (especially the ones in PCs) to not be able to tune in and see anything. It was fixed by their engineers after some work through the forums where they were able to localize the glitch in the transport stream that was causing certain devices to have the problem. I don't think that is what you are seeing, but it shouldn't be ruled out yet.

Snagelpuss

01-17-07, 11:22 PM

Got home tonight and KDSM is back as strong as ever 86% and no drop out. I have not changed a thing. Can not understand what was going on.
Just hope it stays this way as it has in the past.

SnakeEyes

01-18-07, 12:21 AM

Guys, sorry to repeat but I didn't get an answer before... should I currently be getting 5.1 audio from WHO-DT's HD programming or is there currently a problem?

hasan

01-18-07, 08:45 AM

Guys, sorry to repeat but I didn't get an answer before... should I currently be getting 5.1 audio from WHO-DT's HD programming or is there currently a problem?

I'll try to check it for you this evening...I don't think there is any real DD 5.1 on during the day.

rjtheisen

01-18-07, 09:35 AM

Hello,
I posted this a few days back and got a response from someone in Urbandale, who said things are working fine for them. I have been getting the KDSM 17.1,17.2 HD channels with no problem for a couple of years over the air from my antenna mounted on top of my two story house in Gowrie. The signal has always been 75% or better with no drop outs. All of a sudden last Saturday I get zero signal, then on Sunday I tried it again and it was coming in at 76% and would ocassionally say the off air signal was lost but it would come right back on at 76% or so. Now last night and this morning I have zero signal again. Has any one further away from the towers had trouble over the last few days? I am getting 5,8,13,11 all with no troubles, no drop in signal at all. Makes me think maybe KDSM changed something, I can't imagine that with the other channels all working that it would be a problem on my end.

Any feedback would be appreciated. It is too cold to go climb up on the roof and rotate the antenna right now to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks

I have been having the same issue. I use an OTA and I do not get 5.1, 8.1, 11.1, 13.1 and 17.1 no longer. they Were coming in just fine. I also got a PS3 about the same time and used a HDMI connection to my HDTV. I was under the assumption that hooking this up caused my OTA HD channels to no longer come in. I use TVGuide. Is there something I can do to get them restored? I live in the North West side of Johnston. Thanks for any advice to get me going! I miss watching NFL in HD. Please help!

redhawk

01-18-07, 12:29 PM

In case anyone is not aware The Big Ten is starting it's own sports network. Direct with carry this network. I can't get an answer from Dish. One rep told me she thought they were negotiating. I Dish does not sign I will go to Direct. I have sent several E-Mail to Dish and urge other Hawk fans to do the same.

SnakeEyes

01-18-07, 12:33 PM

I just checked "Today" on WHO, and it's 5.1. "Las Vegas" on Friday was also in 5.1.

When people post on this, lemme know your sources. I have Mediacom and I get 5.1 when watching other channels but not WHO.

hasan

01-18-07, 08:00 PM

I just tried 13-1 on both my Sammy HL-R5667W and my DirecTV HR20 HD DVR. Both showed Dolby Digital. Actually, the HR20 feeds my Onkyo Integra amp, and it showed DD, including center channel, so that would seem to make it 5.1. I need to find my other remote to be absolutely certain, but there is no doubt that it is DD, with a center channel.

So, both my OTA tuners say it's DD.

kc0bsn

01-18-07, 08:52 PM

I just pulled up 13.1 on the meters at work, and it is definitely being sent 5.1 OTA. I'm not even sure if Mediacom would be able to re-encode the audio to not be 5.1 without messing up a bunch of other stuff, but I could and have been wrong before.

SnakeEyes

01-18-07, 11:32 PM

It has to be something is wrong with Mediacom. I get 5.1 audio from CBS and other HD channels but not 13.1. I am not getting center or surround audio. Going to check again tonight during Leno/Conan.

SnakeEyes

01-19-07, 12:49 AM

Yeah the cable box says Leno/Conan should be 5.1, the receiver says it's 5.1 but there is no audio in the center or surrounds.

SnakeEyes

01-20-07, 12:25 AM

Ok so tonight I checked NBC's primetime and had 5.1 using all speakers. However Leno is not. Indicators say it 5.1 but nothing in center/surrounds. Letterman is 2.0. Should Leno/Letterman/Conan be 5.1?

bennyburr

01-20-07, 01:20 PM

I finally got my hands on a Samsung DTB-H260F OTA receiver. Since nobody has it stock in the metro area I decided to order it from Circuit City. This little 5th gen tuner is great. I live on the NW side of Grimes and am able to pull in every station solid using one of the free crappy indoor antennas Mediacom was giving out. I decided to pull the trigger because their seems to be no end in sight for the Mediacom/Sinclair debacle. I'll get to see my first Fox NFL football game in HD tomorrow!

Anyway, if anybody is having difficulty pulling in OTA I would recommend trying out the DTB-H260F.

Newbie06

01-20-07, 05:18 PM

Anyone else having this problem with KCCI-DT 8.1 and 8.2? Also happens on channel 11.2 but not as frequently. TV is a Panasonic TH-42PX60U.

Tried 4 different antennas now- amped and no amped- no help. Updated firmware - no help. Moved tv to another part of house- no help. Signal strength is at 98%. Audio clipping and random pixiliating happens with no signal lose. Panasonic said I prolly wouldn't have any problem if I was using another tuner like directv's HD box. I about crapped my pants when the customer service agent said that. Weird thing is out of all the HD OTA channels I can pull in only happens on 3 of the channels. I'm 12 miles away from the towers. Can see them from the house.

hasan

01-20-07, 05:19 PM

bennyburr

01-21-07, 09:08 PM

What did it sell for?

It retails for 179.99. American and Best Buy sell the unit at the same price. Best Buy on University didn't know when they would get more in and American said their next shipment of these would be 40 units for 15 stores. And they already had 4 people on the waiting list for one. I said no thanks and that's why I decided to order from Circuit City online.

renstyle

01-22-07, 12:17 PM

I live about 3 miles north of Ogden, so I'm farther away than you are. I am on pretty high ground, 1135' elevation. I'm using a medium sized channel master combo vhf/uhf yagi on top of a two story house with about 40' of RG-6 feedline. I have not tried rabbit ears or an indoor antenna....just not my way of doing things.

Here are my results:

Channel Signal Level (Samsung HDTV) Signal Level DirecTV HR20

5.1 6.5/10 58%
8.1 10/10 100%
11.1 9.0/10 95%
13.1 9.5/10 100%
17.1 7.0/10 80%
23.1 6.0/10 Not Available
56.1 5.0/10 Not Available

The 2nd column is signal strength on a 0-10 scale on my Samsung HL-R5667W, the 3rd column is the signal strength on my HR20 DVR using its OTA tuner. Keep in mind in both cases, you aren't measuring actual signal strength, but rather some variant of BER (bit error rate) on the signal, which is the standard for evaluating digital signals. I am not subject to multi-path issues at this location, and I don't think you will be either.

Assuming you aren't down in the Des Moines River valley or in some sort of hole, you should get a good, serviceable signal from Alleman, but I wouldn't count on just an indoor set of rabbit ears. I think you could use an attic antenna, but I would make it the best Channel Master I could afford, as you lose signficant signal coming through the roof.

All the analog channels come in fine on the same antenna, with ABC (CH 5) being the most susceptible to local power line noise because it is running low power.

All the HD channels are currently on UHF....but....several will return to VHF in the next year or two, so I would "future proof" my antenna purchase by getting the best combo VHF/UHF antenna you can afford, put it up and be done with it.

I'm definitely not a fan of the rabbit ears either, but I did need them to watch Bob the Builder and Thomas this Sunday AM with my 14 month old. :) The snow has pushed back my installation of my outdoor antenna. Signal was watchable, which at 9am on a Sunday morning is all that my daughter needs (this was analogue only).

My topography has me 'on the level' - the DM river valley starts about 4 miles west of my home. My only major obstructions for now would be the surrounding houses and possibly some of the downtown structures if they happen to sit on that 138-140 sweet spot.

I've been wanting to pick up a decent dual VHF/UHF ant that works well for "fringe" or "near-fringe" reception areas. Since I'm about 25 miles from the towers, I wasn't sure if I could have a problem with overloading (even w/o an amp) if I used a larger-than-necessary ant. Something from either ChannelM, WineG, etc.

I'd much prefer to buy up at the outset, and avoid the need for upgrades in the future. I've got the RG-6 and the compression connectors all ready to go.

You also mentioned the upcoming swap of DT channels from the UHF band back to VHF. Do you know which stations in our area are considering the drop back to VHF? I'm assuming this will occur once the analogue signals are all completely wiped out?

dline

01-22-07, 04:38 PM

FYI, Sinclair officially announced (http://www.sbgi.net/press/release_2007122_201.shtml) its retransmission deal with Time Warner Cable today.

It expires at the end of 2009, and more importantly, it includes the stations' DT side.

"We are excited that this agreement not only ensures retransmission of our signals by Time Warner for the next three years, but also provides for the carriage of our digital signals for the first time to most of Time Warner's subscribers," said David Smith, CEO of Sinclair.

The Des Moines Register, Cedar Rapids Gazette and KCRG-TV9 are all reporting that Mediacom is willing to accept the same deal Sinclair reached with TWC. So far, though, there's nothing in the way of response to that offer on the Sinclair site.

Cross your fingers ...

coolchng1

01-22-07, 04:39 PM

New to the board. I just purchased an HDTV bought a Terk TV-50 antenna (indoor). I scanned for all the local HD channels and found them all except WOI. I can't seem to pick up either the analog or the digital broadcast for channel 5.

I live in Urbandale just about where 100th street crosses the interstate down over a slight hill. But, the all the other channels especially channel 8's HD broadcast are very good. I can't understand why I can't seem to pick up channel 5. I thought they all broadcast from the same tower.

Any help is appreciated.

hasan

01-22-07, 06:10 PM

5.1 has been notorious for a weak signal. Early on from low power, since then, who knows...but let's just say their reputation precedes them.

I get them ok here north of Ogden with a 2nd story roof-peak antenna...but they are no where near the strength of 8.1/11.1/13/1/17.1

Newbie06

01-22-07, 08:21 PM

How does one overload the tuner? A previous reply to another one of my posts thought this might be the problem if I have a sensitive tuner.

renstyle

01-23-07, 08:26 AM

Does anybody here have insight on the fee that Sinclair is asking Mediacom to carry their stations when compared to similar deals like TW? I keep hearing (and maybe I need to spend more time reading the last 100 or so posts on this very forum) that Mediacom thinks the prices is excessive. It this excessive in Mediacom's terms (compared to the deals they had in the past) or are they calling the pricing excessive when compared to the industry at large?

renstyle

01-23-07, 08:58 AM

How does one overload the tuner? A previous reply to another one of my posts thought this might be the problem if I have a sensitive tuner.

When a tuner receives a very strong signal it can overload. The receiver itself generates additional noise, which effectively degrades the signal.

Too strong a signal can keep a sensitive tuner from locking on a particular channel. It sounds counter intuitive at first, but this is well-known phenomenon in wireless and mobile radio applications.

I've done this myself when testing a mast-mounted amplifier that I needed to get one particular signal 80mi from my home. I accidentally left the amp on when I turned my antenna to the local towers (not even 10 miles away) and my tuner was able to lock onto only one of the four signals, which were usually in the 8.0-9.0/10.0.

I did not look back at your post that initiated this reply just yet, but I hope this helps.

hasan

01-23-07, 09:00 AM

How does one overload the tuner? A previous reply to another one of my posts thought this might be the problem if I have a sensitive tuner.

Too much signal. This can be caused by too big an antenna and too close to the station (unusual), or more likely, antenna preamps or line distribution amps, which are notorious for overdriving the tuners.

Newbie06

01-24-07, 01:20 PM

Thanks for the replies on how overloading a tuner can happen.

gutwrencher

01-24-07, 05:33 PM

So I know I've been out-of-the-loop for a time...but what happened to that music video channel..."The Tube"?

hasan

01-24-07, 06:39 PM

So I know I've been out-of-the-loop for a time...but what happened to that music video channel..."The Tube"?

It didn't meet the new FCC requirement for "x" hours per day of children's programming. Notice the same thing happened to 13-2 weather radar, while 8-2 weather managed to incorporate some kids programming, so it can stay on the air.

ankenyclone

01-24-07, 07:28 PM

I hope American Idol is shown at it's regularly scheduled time tonight on 17.1 (instead of the Iowa loss). They should just show the Iowa game on 17.2. I would have to believe that more people tune in for American Idol that would for the Iowa game.

I know I posted this awhile back and someone replied that it was against the rules for them to show the same program in multiple timeslots (i.e., 7 pm on the digital side, then again at 9:30 for everyone else.) But during one of the recent Iowa games I flipped on 17.1 and it was the regular Fox lineup. Hoping for the same again tonight.

BTW, has anyone else noticed the lack of any stunning female singers this season? I'm not sure anyone will ever look as beautiful as Carrie did in HD, but this has been a real letdown through the first three episodes.