Does WHO multicast? WREG does and the HD PQ looks like crap. I'm hoping that other stations being sold by NY Times don't multicast and hopefully will go away.

Thanks.

They have a subchannel where they used to display their weather radar, but the entire time I've had an HDTV (less than two weeks lol) it has been a screen of text indicating that they're not able to show it at this time. As Hasan noted four posts back, and has also mentioned earlier in this large thread, this is apparently due to some new-for-January requirements for children's programming on sub channels.

Perhaps someone has those details at hand, but I should be in bed!

So I know I've been out-of-the-loop for a time...but what happened to that music video channel..."The Tube"?

------------------------------------------------

From: "KDSM FOX 17 Programming"
Subject: Re: The Tube

Our contract with The Tube has terminated.

Thanks for keeping it set on FOX 17!
Programming KDSM FOX 17

----- Original Message -----
To: "KDSM FOX 17 Programming"
Subject: The Tube

To whom it may concern:

I am curious as to if "The Tube" will return, or if it has been perminantely removed, and why. I was unable to uncover any information from your website.

I love the format of The Tube, and it is by far one of my favorite (sub)channels.

TIA for any information.

(receiving OTA HD & DirecTV subscriber)

FYI:

Tonight Iowa Public Television began crawling a message announcing that they will be testing a digital multicast channel beginning on Feb. 1, which would be next Thursday. The crawl said that regular IPTV programming would air only on the analog channel during this time.

The crawl also told viewers to check IPTV.org for information, but so far I have yet to see any.

(The crawl was seen on the Waterloo IPTV station but probably ran on all of them, at least on the "-2" subchannel which simulcasts IPTV analog.)

Are they at full power yet? I can't seem to get this channel good enough to make it watchable. Anybody here get a good signal from them? My wife would like to DVR the Beauty and the Geek show.

I get a good signal some times, but usually when I try to make a recording I lose the signal often enough to make the result unwatchable. It may need to get a better antenna to get the station, but for now I have been hoping they would improve their signal at some point.

I was told by the station manager that the HD was turned on with 1,000,000 watts of power. I have been unable to get this signal even though I am only 13 miles away from the tower. Any ideas?

In Nevada, I can't get 23.1 either. I can get all the other digital channels and even the analog 23, but nothing on 23.1.

23.1 isn't nearly as strong as it once was. It is highly variable of late (last month or so), from breaking up/pixellating to about 5 or 6 out of 10 on my Sammy signal meter. It used to run a solid 7, sometime 8, now it often is down around 3. All other stations are holding their strength pretty much.

If they really are on at 1MW, then they may be experiencing a problem. Perhaps they have something in their signal chain that is mucking things up. If anyone has a contact for them, perhaps they could pass along the info that they are almost unwatchable for many people who used to be able to get them at least some of the time. Maybe they will look into how their signal is actually working.

Hello, Central Iowa! I'm very new to the HD and the AVS Forum worlds, so please bear with me.

I just got a 27" Samsung TX-S2782HX TV with built in HDTV tuner. It's a 4:3 screen. Do DSM area Over-the-Air 1080i or 720i channels seem stretched vertically to you? So people are just a bit too tall and thin? 13, 11, 17-1, 23-1, all the HD channels do this to some degree. Then the same shows through cable or on the over-the-air 480i (like 17-2) seem almost normal, but on closer inspection they're stretched the other way - just a tiny bit too wide. Not as noticeable as the vertical stretching on 1080/720, but it's there. I can see people and square or circle logos go from skinny to squat as I switch back and forth between OA and the cable channels.

It's not a picture size setting as far as I can tell, since I can cycle through my options and find the obvious "correct" choice - everything else is pulled extremely tall or wide. (16:9 is definitely the correct picture size for 1080/720, and Normal is the correct setting for 480. The other choices just Zoom really tall to eliminate letterboxing.) But, even on the correct picture size setting, people are still super-model thin on 1080/720 broadcasts.

Is this normal with HD, or is it something with my set? Just the nature of watching 16:9 on a 4:3 set? Would upgrading to Mediacom's digital cable or HD package do anything for me? Thought I'd check first with the group who are watching the same broadcast channels as I am.

I'm getting my OA channels with the free rabbit ears antenna Mediacom handed out so I could get KDSM. (Well, one rabbit ear - discovered the hard way that the antennae go back and forth, but don't swivel.) I'm in an apartment so a roof or attic antenna isn't in the cards, but would a better antenna make any difference in the "stretchiness" of the picture? I'll probably spring for one anyway, since some of the channels cut in and out. But before that, I'd like to know if the other issue can be fixed.

Thanks for your help!

Just checking with other people. I have an attic antenna connected to back of DishNetwork VIP 622 DVR, I get 5-1, 8-1, 8-2, 11-1, 11-2, 13-1, 13-2, 17-1, 17-2, 23-1, 34-1, 56-1, all with signal strength in the 80's

Last night around 9 pm, KCCI is dropping, going from 80s, to 0, 70s, to 0, back and forth, and is still doing it. I have reset box, reset locals everything. Every other local HD is coming in crystal clear, but KCCI is dropping like a bad habit. It had never done that before and was even running on powered rabbit ears for several months before the switch to Dish. It has been running fine on Dish for about 2 weeks, not one drop, then last night it started. I live about 3 miles south of Ankeny and was wondering if anyone else if experiencing any issue with KCCI?

I checked signal levels this morning and last night on 8-1 and found them to be normal to just slightly down. I usually see them at 100% on the dual tuners of my D* HR20 and I was seeing them in the mid to high 90's (re-checked at 7:30 a.m.).

23-1 remains quite low, often pixellating. On my Sammy I see them from 1 to 3 out of 10. 3 is good enough to hold a pix, but not less than that. They used to run 5 or 6 at worst, 7 at best. All my other channels are normal, even 5.1 which has been holding in at a 5 out of 10 on the Sammy and mid-50% on the HR20.

I finally got in 23-1 last night, and was getting around 90 out of 100 signal strength.

I don't know if it was just a good night, or things are getting straightened out.

I don't get it. I posted about this a while back. From 1/13 to 1/16 I could not get 17.1 OTA. Prior to Jan 13th it always has come in fine. Since 1/17 it has been fine again until last night it is at 0% signal again. I am 47 miles from the towers. Has anyone had issues with 17.1 last night? I have not checked it today, but will when I get home tonight.

Someone mentioned maybe the weather has something to do with it. Does anyone know if cold weather can affect the broadcast? It has been below zero again the last few evenings and the last time that it would not come in it was below zero in the evenings then too.

Just wondering if anyone has had any issues with it or knows if the cold weather can affect it.
Thanks.

You haven't by any chance got an external amp at the outdoor antenna, do you? I am curious if you are at a point where it is too cold for the electronics in the amp and it could be causing this. If you run just a passive antenna and good RG6 you should be able to handle the cold without a snuffle, but if there are any active elements (such as an amp) outside it may be wirthwhile to try disconnecting them. If you can't get a signal without an amp, perhaps you can relocate the amp to just inside the heated part of your house and see if it works. I hope this helps, if not perhaps other people can chime in on their experiences with 17.1 at these distances or locations.

I finally got in 23-1 last night, and was getting around 90 out of 100 signal strength.

I don't know if it was just a good night, or things are getting straightened out.
By any chance have you mentioned where you are? I am just curious to see where the KCWI-DT signal is making it to.

You haven't by any chance got an external amp at the outdoor antenna, do you? I am curious if you are at a point where it is too cold for the electronics in the amp and it could be causing this. If you run just a passive antenna and good RG6 you should be able to handle the cold without a snuffle, but if there are any active elements (such as an amp) outside it may be wirthwhile to try disconnecting them. If you can't get a signal without an amp, perhaps you can relocate the amp to just inside the heated part of your house and see if it works. I hope this helps, if not perhaps other people can chime in on their experiences with 17.1 at these distances or locations.

Thanks for the reply, I don't have any type of a pre amp on the system, just as you say good rg6. I have not experienced any type of signal loss over the last couple of winters. I can't recall if we have had that cold of weather the last couple of years though.

One thing I will mention is I switched from a dish 811 to a vip 211 , since I switched hd packages. That was done back in october or so.

I do have a mast amp that I tried a year or so back to try and pull in 5.1 when it was so weak. With the amp it over powered the tuner and I couldn't get any channels.

All channels have worked fine utill the last couple of weeks with 17.1.

By any chance have you mentioned where you are? I am just curious to see where the KCWI-DT signal is making it to.

Nevada, IA. Also, I'm just using a little Phillips MANT510 in my basement. Antennaweb.org claims I am a little over 16 miles from the tower.

Hasan
Did you ever get any word on the MPEG4 HD locals for our area?

thanks

MPotratz@kcwi23.com

I have sent emails. Maybe if they hear from more than one of us, they will check it out.

Hasan
Did you ever get any word on the MPEG4 HD locals for our area?

thanks

Not a peep...and that's not a good sign. I saved the messages from the contact guy, and now I can't find where I archived the darn stuff (kinda defeats the purpose!).

I don't see how we can go from "by end of 2006", or "within 45 days" (which would have been middle of January 2007), to "end of 2007" which is what I was told D* has said. It makes no sense. I just wish I could find the contact info again.

Has anyone tried calling D* directly and asking them what is going on? I haven't because my interest in MPEG-4 is minimal at best... I use OTA and have been recording HD like crazy with it on the HR20 and having great success.

Not a peep...and that's not a good sign. I saved the messages from the contact guy, and now I can't find where I archived the darn stuff (kinda defeats the purpose!).

I don't see how we can go from "by end of 2006", or "within 45 days" (which would have been middle of January 2007), to "end of 2007" which is what I was told D* has said. It makes no sense. I just wish I could find the contact info again.

Has anyone tried calling D* directly and asking them what is going on? I haven't because my interest in MPEG-4 is minimal at best... I use OTA and have been recording HD like crazy with it on the HR20 and having great success.


When I called they told me it was the local tv stations not signing contracts.......not them. D* tried to blame them for being slow moving in the process. That's all I know.

Thanks guys

I use an antenna for OTA as well so not a big deal to me either. I just wish we would get the HR20 to receive 23-1 as i miss Smallville in HD.

Like you Hasan in general (again knock on wood) my HR20 has been pretty good. A few things here and there but not as bad as others.

I just moved form Dish to DirectTV and also upgraded to the HR20 to get the HD DVR. I'm planning on an install on Monday and will hook up my OTA in the back of it to do some recording. I'm only interested in the MPEG-4 b/c I can't get WOI 5.1 where I am located. The rest come in just fine.

One quesiton though... I've hear that the HR20 has some issues when using the HDMI? Anyone know about this? Also, will Direct TV provide the HDMI cord when they install?

Thanks!

I just moved form Dish to DirectTV and also upgraded to the HR20 to get the HD DVR. I'm planning on an install on Monday and will hook up my OTA in the back of it to do some recording. I'm only interested in the MPEG-4 b/c I can't get WOI 5.1 where I am located. The rest come in just fine.

One quesiton though... I've hear that the HR20 has some issues when using the HDMI? Anyone know about this? Also, will Direct TV provide the HDMI cord when they install?

Thanks!

There are some HDMI issues. I haven't had any problems and the vast majority of people haven't....at least not any longer. However, if you are one of the unlucky ones, then you would have to use the component cables (D* supplies a set). As far as HDMI being provided...well...some were given a set by the installer and some were not. I already had my HDMI cable, so I didn't ask for one.

How far are you from Alleman? You should be able to get 5.1 unless you are a long ways away, or down in a hole. Admittedly, 5.1 is the worst of the channels (or was until 23.1 started acting up), but where there is a will there is usually a way.

Just checking with other people. I have an attic antenna connected to back of DishNetwork VIP 622 DVR, I get 5-1, 8-1, 8-2, 11-1, 11-2, 13-1, 13-2, 17-1, 17-2, 23-1, 34-1, 56-1, all with signal strength in the 80's

Last night around 9 pm, KCCI is dropping, going from 80s, to 0, 70s, to 0, back and forth, and is still doing it. I have reset box, reset locals everything. Every other local HD is coming in crystal clear, but KCCI is dropping like a bad habit. It had never done that before and was even running on powered rabbit ears for several months before the switch to Dish. It has been running fine on Dish for about 2 weeks, not one drop, then last night it started. I live about 3 miles south of Ankeny and was wondering if anyone else if experiencing any issue with KCCI?

We saw the same thing - all other channels were rock solid, but 8 was coming and going frequently. Interestingly, we're using a VIP622 as well (although with a set of rabbit ears that have been working well for 1.5 months as opposed to an attic antenna). It was very windy that evening as I recall, and I wondered if that was having some sort of impact on the transmitter?

When I turned 8.1 on at 5 p.m. tonight, I saw several drops right away...but it seems to have stabilized now, and hasn't dropped or pixellated in the past 15 or 20 minutes.

We're at 6th and Ashworth in West Des Moines, with pretty much nothing between us and the towers.

MPotratz@kcwi23.com

I have sent emails. Maybe if they hear from more than one of us, they will check it out.

I sent them a very detailed email today...their signal is unwatchable ....all day. Hopefully, we will hear something back. Let us know if you get a reply, and thanks for the email address for 23.1

Thanks guys

I use an antenna for OTA as well so not a big deal to me either. I just wish we would get the HR20 to receive 23-1 as i miss Smallville in HD.

Like you Hasan in general (again knock on wood) my HR20 has been pretty good. A few things here and there but not as bad as others.

I noticed that CW has appeared in the guide! It's mapped wrong (it says it's 56-?).

Go in and redo your setup for OTA...from scratch....you will get 34-1 and two new 56-?....one of them is right, one wrong. Both of the 56's are stinky weak right now, (one of which is really 23.1). I can't get 23.1 on my Sammy now...it's reallly weak, so don't blame the HR20.

If signal levels pick up, you should start seeing the new channels on your HR20. This info came to the HR20 "automagically" from the guide data...it has nothing to do with the firmware.

Lemme know if you get stuck.

Hooray!! Fox is back on Mediacom! Does anyone know if the HD signal was part of the agreement?

Hooray!! Fox is back on Mediacom! Does anyone know if the HD signal was part of the agreement?
Yes in 30-60 days
Joe

Yes in 30-60 days
Joe

I have a channel 817 on MediaCom cable...I'm guessing that would be the HD feed along with channel 6 being KDSM. :cool:

Thanks Hasan

I saw the 56-1 and 56-2 without having to redo anything. 56-2 has the guide info but is giving the the 771 searching for signal message. I checked signal strength on 56-1 and 56-2 - was in the upper 90s on both.

I will redo the setup a little later and let you know what I see at that point.

Strange this was I noticed the additions on my TS360 receiver which does not have an antenna even hooked up as it is in the bedroom and not on an HD TV at this point. Made me go down and check the HR20.

Yes in 30-60 days
Joe

and now I have set up my computer with an HDTV tuner card and software to turn it into a PVR. Fox looks much better in HD than the old SD cable feed.

My wife doesn't like the antenna I have strung up in my audio/video room--and now it sounds like I will have to keep it up for a while until mediacom gets their HD going.

I redid the setup and got 34-1 to come in but lost 56-1. I reset the recorder and still did not get it back.

Also on 56-2 I am getting the 771 message of searching for signal still. I check signal strength and am in the upper 90s on 34-1 and 56-2.

Hasan - are you still getting 56-1 and how is 56-2 working for you on the HR20.

thanks

I redid the setup and got 34-1 to come in but lost 56-1. I reset the recorder and still did not get it back.

Also on 56-2 I am getting the 771 message of searching for signal still. I check signal strength and am in the upper 90s on 34-1 and 56-2.

Hasan - are you still getting 56-1 and how is 56-2 working for you on the HR20.

thanks

I don't have 56-1 listed in the guide. 56-2 is too weak (or mis-mapped), I get some 25% readings randomly, but mostly not-acquired.

All my readings are down this morning (7:00 a.m.), about 10% per channel (although they aren't perfectly uniform). The Sammy is showing the same decreases on its tuner as well.

There are problems with 23.1's mapping...even in the PSIP data, as I see 23.1 intermittantly listed as 56-3 on my Sammy!

Right now, signals are just way too weak on 23.1, 34.1 and 56-2.

With signals for you in the 90's on 56-2 and no pix, I'm assuming it is the database mapping problem...we just have to wait it out at this point.

Thank God, I'm getting ABC, CBS, PBS, NBC and FOX perfectly on both the HR20 and the Sammy. My strongest signal is always 8.1 (CBS), often reading 100%...however, this morning it's only in the 80's.

I have a channel 817 on MediaCom cable...I'm guessing that would be the HD feed along with channel 6 being KDSM. :cool:

Yes, the programming appears to be HD, with the SD programming stretched to fill the screen, just like 17.1 OTA.

The decreased power levels across the board may be due to the cold. With the dropping temperature, we had a transmission line pressure alarm last night and occasionally that will cause the transmitter to throttle back the power just a bit to protect itself.

The 800-series numbers are the channels as presented on the digital STB, but any idea where it is on clear QAM?

KCCI is 114-1 (maps to 8-1), KDIN is 115-2 (doesn't remap), WOI is 115-4 (doesn't remap), WHO is 114-something (remaps to 13-1).

I had my TV do a rescan and it didn't seem to find anything new.

I have a channel 817 on MediaCom cable...I'm guessing that would be the HD feed along with channel 6 being KDSM. :cool:

FOX-17 is 95-4 on my tv
Joe

Has anyone had any luck with HD Locals with an indoor antenna in Marshalltown? I have D* and it sounds like it may be a long time before D* has the Des Moines Locals through the dish. I have thought about the Terk HDTVi. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Do DSM area Over-the-Air 1080i or 720i channels seem stretched vertically to you? So people are just a bit too tall and thin? 13, 11, 17-1, 23-1, all the HD channels do this to some degree. Then the same shows through cable or on the over-the-air 480i (like 17-2) seem almost normal, but on closer inspection they're stretched the other way - just a tiny bit too wide. Not as noticeable as the vertical stretching on 1080/720, but it's there. I can see people and square or circle logos go from skinny to squat as I switch back and forth between OA and the cable channels.

Best Buy is blaming this on the stations themselves. Basically saying that since HD is "new" the stations are still figuring it out. And since they're also broadcasting in 4:3, what I'm seeing is a compromise between the two. Does this make any sense at all? Does anyone with a 4:3 set notice that OTA 16:9 broadcasts seem just a little too tall/thin? Thought I'd check with the people who are watching the same stations I am.

Rats, I can't seem to find it.
FOX-17 is 95-4 on my tv
Joe

NB, has your Best Buy tech come out yet or are they now saying that there's nothing they can do? Whatever you're seeing is definitely some sort of setting within the TV itself. Our HD off-air monitor at work is a 4:3 screen and it letterboxes fine, I also have used a Samsung STB that properly letterboxed 16:9 programming onto my old 19" TV.

ToddR, 95-2 worked on my set for finding KDSM-HD. Sounds like each QAM decoder may be handling it differently. 95 is the common thread, though, so try checking all the subchannels on that stream.

Has anyone had any luck with HD Locals with an indoor antenna in Marshalltown? I have D* and it sounds like it may be a long time before D* has the Des Moines Locals through the dish. I have thought about the Terk HDTVi. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

For a cheap try: Radio Shack U-75 uhf corner reflector/yagi. It's only 40" long with a reflecting corner screen and costs 25 bucks.

Put it where you can fit it (upstairs attic might work quite well) and point it at Alleman. It will surely be superior to any other indoor OTA antenna you will find, and a lot cheaper than most of Terk's stuff (most of which is not particularly well designed).

Your best bet would be to put the antenna outside where it belongs and use good RG-6 cable run as short as possible.

While not HD related I just had to mention that Mediacom has switched the family cable channels to digital. Didn't know they were planning that now.

While not HD related I just had to mention that Mediacom has switched the family cable channels to digital. Didn't know they were planning that now.
I have had digital for 2 years and and have always been able to get channels 2-78 on or off the digital box , do you mean they are doing somthing different now.
Joe

I have had digital for 2 years and and have always been able to get channels 2-78 on or off the digital box , do you mean they are doing somthing different now.
JoeChannels 2-78 have always been "analog" even though they come through your digital box. That is why I have Dish. When I first got my 60" HDTV 3.5 years ago, I had Mediacom and the analog channels were horrible on a large screen (very grainy). If they have truly converted those channels to digital, that's great! And, it's about time!

A little over 2 years ago, I was going to switch back to Mediacom. They advertised "digital cable" and when they came out, they got me hooked up to their HD DVR receiver. When I looked at channels 2-78, they were still grainy. The installer told me that those channels are still analog and it might be a year or so before they convert them to digital. I told him to take it away. And I remained with D*. Then a couple months later, I switched to E* and been with them since.

Has anyone noticed 23-1 was working better last night and then a little worse tonight up until I lost the signal? It wasn;t coming in at all for my friend up in Roland, but I don't know if it will even though he gets 5-1 just fine. In any case I hope they are working on stuff and getting it fixed. A little CW HD would go a long way towards impressing the significant other...

While not HD related I just had to mention that Mediacom has switched the family cable channels to digital. Didn't know they were planning that now.
I do not believe this is the case. They are still the same crappy analog channels I've always had, and I'm pretty sure Mediacom would've made a huge publicity splash if it were true.

Anyone able to receive any of KDMI's subchannels successfully
in the Ames (or even Des Moines) area recently?

My tuner reports good signal strength, similar to that of
WOI-DT and KDIN-DT, which are on the same tower, and have
similar characteristics. However, KDMI's signal quality is unusable.
I was able to pull in 56's 34.1 on Thursday morning, but that's
about all I've ever been able to get out of 56 since I got my tuner
on Wednesday.

Is this a problem with my tuner or location,
or are other people seeing the same thing?

I do not believe this is the case. They are still the same crappy analog channels I've always had, and I'm pretty sure Mediacom would've made a huge publicity splash if it were true.

Perhaps not everywhere yet.

No, I have not had much luck with the UHF 56 channels. I alctually don't get anything on those channels reliably. I can sometimes get 23-1, but it cuts out once in a while. I don't watch anything on the other channels, but when I check them I usually get poor to no reception.

I called DirecTV to solve a billing problem and I asked about Des Moines Locals with HD and the guy said it would be late 2007. He also informed me that I can fill out a petition to get the east/west coast networks because I can't get HD through DireTV yet. He said he submitted them and I should probably know by Friday the 16th. He said all or some of the Des Moines stations may decline the petition. Has anyone had any luck with this? I'm assuming I will get shot down by all networks. I live in Marshalltown.

Just to add the the rumor mill, I was at the Home and Garden Show this weekend and Direct tv had a large display there. I asked about the Des Moines locals and the lady told me hd locals will be here in 4-8 weeks. I have no idea if that's the standard line or ir there is truth to it but that's what she said.

I called DirecTV to solve a billing problem and I asked about Des Moines Locals with HD and the guy said it would be late 2007. He also informed me that I can fill out a petition to get the east/west coast networks because I can't get HD through DireTV yet. He said he submitted them and I should probably know by Friday the 16th. He said all or some of the Des Moines stations may decline the petition. Has anyone had any luck with this? I'm assuming I will get shot down by all networks. I live in Marshalltown.

You are going to get declined by all of them. I know channel 8 declines all of these petitions, which they have every right to do. In marshalltown you should be able to get HD channels just fine with a cheap antenna.

Just to add the the rumor mill, I was at the Home and Garden Show this weekend and Direct tv had a large display there. I asked about the Des Moines locals and the lady told me hd locals will be here in 4-8 weeks. I have no idea if that's the standard line or ir there is truth to it but that's what she said.

Standard line, it was supposed to be fall of 2006, but is now marked as fall of 2007. With DirecTV's history of these claims, I would expect it mid 2008.

Has anybody had any luck lately getting more than 1 DVR from Mediacom? I was in their office last week and they denied me another one. You would think with the number of customers they lost with the Sinclare mess they would be more reluctant to hand them out.

I would threaten to cancel all my services with them to see if they would budge, but I just signed up for their HSI at a great price.

Anyone able to receive any of KDMI's subchannels successfully
in the Ames (or even Des Moines) area recently?

My tuner reports good signal strength, similar to that of
WOI-DT and KDIN-DT, which are on the same tower, and have
similar characteristics. However, KDMI's signal quality is unusable.
I was able to pull in 56's 34.1 on Thursday morning, but that's
about all I've ever been able to get out of 56 since I got my tuner
on Wednesday.

Is this a problem with my tuner or location,
or are other people seeing the same thing?

In the prior 4 weeks or so, 23-1, 34-1 and 56-1 have been too weak to reliably see...either blank screen or fully pixellating. However, in the last three days, I have been seeing all of them. I just checked them on two different tuners, my HR20 HD DVR from D*, and my Sammy HL-R5667W:

23-1 4/10 (four out of 10 on the Sammy)
34-1 4/10
56-1 4/10

34-1 55% (HR20)

The HR20 doesn't get 23-1 or 56-1 yet, due to an error in the HR20 database that controls its tuner.

So, with a history of very poor signals for the past month or so, the last 3 days, I am getting the station(s) you asked about. I checked them at 7:30 a.m. today, Tuesday 2-13-07.

I did email 23.1 about 4 days ago...I got no response. By looking at all my channels on both tuners, I think I've just seen the band come up (better propagation) due to the approaching storms. Southerly air flow (moist) over dry cold ground can produce quite a bit of enhancement compared to large, cold and dry air masses.

Mediacom users (at least the people I know that also have them) presently have KDSM HD blacked out. Was supposed to be a basketball game preempting American Idol but the game was canceled due to weather. American Idol is on 6 but nothing on 817.

Working for me at 9
Joe

Yeah it came back on right before the news started.

A hint of spring/summer conditions before the leaves come out:

All digital signals are way up this evening. Normal vs. Tonight in table below:

5-1 60% 95%
8-1 100% 100%
11-1 80% 95%
13-1 89% 100%
17-1 69% 88%
23-1 40% 80%
34-1 45% 75%
56-1 45% 75%

Ogden is about 27 miles from the towers at Alleman, medium sized channel master on peak of 2nd story roof, 40' of RG-6

Mediacom has definitely moved family cable to digital in my area . On my digital box they are no longer available, says i am not authorized to view these channels
Joe

I live in fort dodge. I currently have a HD receiver through direct TV. If I get a set-top antenna and simply plug it into my HD receiver, will I get the local HD channels? I have a sony grand wega tv that is HD ready.

Pardon me if I've missed this answer somewhere in this thread, as I only read about 15 pages before I decided to ask these questions...

I'm located in Ames, specifically, on the Iowa State campus, and we have the basic mediacom cable package provided to us in the dorms.

I just bought a KWorld ATSC-110 (Digital / Analog HDTV Tuner for my PC) and it will be here tomorrow and I'm curious about a few things...

This card is supposedly QAM capable -- does mediacom push the local "OTA digital broadcast" channels (fox, cbs, etc) out over their wires, so that I could tune in to them without the cable box?

If not, are there any recommendations for a decent OTA antenna that I can get so I can receive some digital channels?

Thanks for any info!

Pardon me if I've missed this answer somewhere in this thread, as I only read about 15 pages before I decided to ask these questions...

I'm located in Ames, specifically, on the Iowa State campus, and we have the basic mediacom cable package provided to us in the dorms.

I just bought a KWorld ATSC-110 (Digital / Analog HDTV Tuner for my PC) and it will be here tomorrow and I'm curious about a few things...

This card is supposedly QAM capable -- does mediacom push the local "OTA digital broadcast" channels (fox, cbs, etc) out over their wires, so that I could tune in to them without the cable box?

If not, are there any recommendations for a decent OTA antenna that I can get so I can receive some digital channels?

Thanks for any info!

I am not sure about mediacom in Ames, but some areas mediacom is in they do pass the locas in the clear. If they don't, you should be able to pick up OTA HD channels as you are roughly around 15 miles from the towers.

Pardon me if I've missed this answer somewhere in this thread, as I only read about 15 pages before I decided to ask these questions...

I'm located in Ames, specifically, on the Iowa State campus, and we have the basic mediacom cable package provided to us in the dorms.

I just bought a KWorld ATSC-110 (Digital / Analog HDTV Tuner for my PC) and it will be here tomorrow and I'm curious about a few things...

This card is supposedly QAM capable -- does mediacom push the local "OTA digital broadcast" channels (fox, cbs, etc) out over their wires, so that I could tune in to them without the cable box?

If not, are there any recommendations for a decent OTA antenna that I can get so I can receive some digital channels?

Thanks for any info!

They do here in Ankeny. I have a QAM tuner. Look in stations 114-115, and Fox is 95-4. I think ABC is 115-4, PBS is 115-2. If I recall, I found NBC and CBS in the 114's, but they remap to 8-1 and 13-1 respectively.

I noticed earlier today 5-1, 11-1, 11-2 and 13-1 were all off the air..appears to still be the case.

Same here 5-1, 11-1, 11-2, 13-1/13-2 all gone. Strangely enough, 23-1, 34-1 and 56-1 are about as strong as I've ever seen them...the overrunning warm air must be helping more than all the ice is hurting. We have over 1/2 inch of ice, and things changed to full snow at 5 p.m., and it's snowing hard at the moment here north of Ogden. Been raining (and below freezing) all day.

I'd almost guess high SWR on the transmitters causing them to shut down. Readings today have been all over the place. Not HD, but I just noticed the wrestling on KCWI. Must not have cleared the snow/ice off the sat dish... either receiving in Ankeny or transmitting from downtown.

My stations have been in and out on 5-1 and 13-1.

HBO HD, UHD, & ESPN have been very shaky today too for DirecTV in Waukee. I see ice build-up on the LNBs, so that's part of it. Too treacherous tonight to go climbing on the roof to clean them. Curious that the snows all winter have had no effect on my reception except tonight.

I've had no problems this year either until tonight....and tonights weather is MUCH heavier than anything else we have had this year. Not so much the ice for me, but for the past hour the snow has been coming down in blinding waves. Heavy rain and thunder storms knock me out....as does this stuff thats falling outside my window. Figures.....Mary Shelly's Frankenstein was due at 9pm on UHD....now I need to break out a dvd of something. :)

BTW....no problems at all with the OTA channels. All strong.

Same here 5-1, 11-1, 11-2, 13-1/13-2 all gone.

Aren't these three stations on the same tower? Did they fail simultaneously or independently of each other? What is it about tonight's weather that makes the DT signals vulnerable while the analog stuff keeps humming along?

Most stations only have their generators hooked up to the analog transmitters. The pull for both transmitters is too much for one generator. And buying an extra generator for most stations isn't cost effective since there will only be one transmitter in a couple years anyway.

-1 and -2 just went off the air with no announcement now too.

Yep, the SWR decided to kill the transmitter. It's back up but at very limited power. Only running at about 11% of full power. The ice on the antennas is absolutely freaking out the transmitters up there.

Yep, the SWR decided to kill the transmitter. It's back up but at very limited power. Only running at about 11% of full power. The ice on the antennas is absolutely freaking out the transmitters up there.

8-1 and -2 are both back up at full strength for me, 100% on my HR20, as is 13-1

5-1 and 11-1/-2 are both still down

I never lost 17-1/2 34-1, 56-1 that I know of. Can't recall about 23-1.

(1 p.m. Sunday)

We lost all power from 7:45 a.m. until 9:15 a.m. this morning, but it's been back up without any "winkies" since then. (3 miles NE of Ogden, out in the sticks)

We have over a 1/4" of radial ice, and got about 11" of snow. I had to dust off both my D* dishes this morning to get a signal.

Well, after that lovely 9 inches of snow and ice, I had to clean off my D* dish this morning to get service again. Add on some quick outtages this morning also and I had to retrain my H20 as to which locals I can normally pick up OTA.
So 13-1 and -2 are back...but 13-2 has an interesting screen having to do with ScanLine Technologies.

KCCI-DT is on, but it is still operating at about 18% of normal power. Right now it's an ice issue, so hopefully we get some sun this week.

I just tuned in 13.2 and I'm still getting the statement about taking MegaDoppler off the air.

So 13-1 and -2 are back...but 13-2 has an interesting screen having to do with ScanLine Technologies.

I saw that this afternoon myself. Sort of a default image for what must be a piece of equipment used to display the video. I was kind of surprised when it included a system/version date in 1999. :p

Must have been resolved by the time kc0bsn looked in.

Taking a little Oscar break now. Was there ever a show more worthy of TiVoing? With a practiced thumb, there is no reason for that show to require more than 60 minutes of my time.

Ok, a little background....

I was on a promotional package with Mediacom that gave me expanded basic cable, plus the digital two Starz pack (Starz and Showtime channels) for 40 a month. That also included VOD and the music channels.

2 months ago, I got a new HDTV with built in tuner. With my built in tuner, I get all of the music channels, and some of the local digital channels (bypassing Mediacom's digital box)

If I go down to just their expanded basic cable package, will I still be able to pull in the digital signal for the music channels and the local digital channels, or will the digital signal not even continue to be sent to me?

Ok, a little background....

I was on a promotional package with Mediacom that gave me expanded basic cable, plus the digital two Starz pack (Starz and Showtime channels) for 40 a month. That also included VOD and the music channels.

2 months ago, I got a new HDTV with built in tuner. With my built in tuner, I get all of the music channels, and some of the local digital channels (bypassing Mediacom's digital box)

If I go down to just their expanded basic cable package, will I still be able to pull in the digital signal for the music channels and the local digital channels, or will the digital signal not even continue to be sent to me?

I purchased my HDTV in December and have had Mediacom basic cable for almost a year now, in this apartment. Once I plugged in my TV, with the built in tuner, I noticed a lot of new channels.

I get 13.1, 8.1,8.2, 115.4, which is actually local ABC. I also get HD PBS. I don't pay extra for Mediacom HDTV because no one at Mediacom will tell me exactly what that package includes. But to answer your question, I also get all these digital music channels you speak of. I don't have a directory of them, so I don't know what each channel is without going to them. I also get these 'on demand' channels. basically there, I am sponging off of someone else who is paying for the channels. But with that, you see the other person pausing, rewinding, etc. So it's not all that useful.

I'm not sure if you would lose your digital signal if you dropped your Mediacom digital connection. My case could be different since I'm in an apartment.

I purchased my HDTV in December and have had Mediacom basic cable for almost a year now, in this apartment. Once I plugged in my TV, with the built in tuner, I noticed a lot of new channels.

I get 13.1, 8.1,8.2, 115.4, which is actually local ABC. I also get HD PBS. I don't pay extra for Mediacom HDTV because no one at Mediacom will tell me exactly what that package includes. But to answer your question, I also get all these digital music channels you speak of. I don't have a directory of them, so I don't know what each channel is without going to them. I also get these 'on demand' channels. basically there, I am sponging off of someone else who is paying for the channels. But with that, you see the other person pausing, rewinding, etc. So it's not all that useful.

I'm not sure if you would lose your digital signal if you dropped your Mediacom digital connection. My case could be different since I'm in an apartment.

Perfect...I'm in an apartment too, so I am pretty confident that I will keep getting those channels. If I don't get them, I may look in to getting a CableCard and see what benefit that gives me. Thanks for the help!

I'm not sure if you would lose your digital signal if you dropped your Mediacom digital connection. My case could be different since I'm in an apartment.

I don't subscribe to digital, but I believe all the digital channels are on my wire. My television's QAM tuner indicates most of them are scrambled, so I obviously can't view them, but a few are in the clear: Music Choice, local network HD feeds (though my KDSM is too erratic to use), your neighbors' random PPV stuff, C-Span and perhaps one or two more.

It's the cable box (or cable card if your set is so equipped) that makes it possible to tune the digital tier.

I have the expanded basic only package, for now, and get the same channel's that have been mentioned above. All local's plus a couple other's and the music channel's.

8-1 and 8-2 have gone off the air here again. Is it just me, or is this the high swr problem at the transmitters resurfacing? 5:30 p.m., Wednesday.

7 p.m., 8-1 and 8-2 are back on.

Alleman lost power at 4:49pm. Analog KCCI was on generator power until shortly after 7pm. The digital KCCI-DT came back up at about 6:37pm. We're still operating at reduced power, but at least we're online.

It is so maddening when WOI is late getting out of the basketball game and joins Lost in progress. And I enjoyed those three or four commercials after the game broadcast ended that they just had to cram in while Lost was rolling along unseen.

Oh, there's bad weather tomorrow? Who knew? Let's go standard def and run the crawl for a few minutes. Thanks for the heads up. :rolleyes:

At least when KDSM had basketball conflicts, one could watch either the game or Fox programming on 17-2 & 17-1.

Alleman lost power at 4:49pm. Analog KCCI was on generator power until shortly after 7pm. The digital KCCI-DT came back up at about 6:37pm. We're still operating at reduced power, but at least we're online.

Man, I'd love to see pictures of all the equipment necessary at the tower site to put out analog & digital television signals, provide backup power generation, etc. Neat stuff, I'm sure.

KCCI-DT is back to full power (or at least 95%ish) as of 10am this morning...for now... :)

It is so maddening when WOI is late getting out of the basketball game and joins Lost in progress. And I enjoyed those three or four commercials after the game broadcast ended that they just had to cram in while Lost was rolling along unseen.

Oh, there's bad weather tomorrow? Who knew? Let's go standard def and run the crawl for a few minutes. Thanks for the heads up. :rolleyes:

At least when KDSM had basketball conflicts, one could watch either the game or Fox programming on 17-2 & 17-1.There could be any number of explanations for all this.

Just because Fox, which is traditionally a somewhat "looser" network than the original three, may be letting an affiliate split the broadcast doesn't mean ABC allows its affiliates to do likewise.

As for the crawls: I don't claim to know anything about WOI-ABC5's master control setup in West Des Moines. But it is my understanding that some stations can't switch off that network source without going back to upconvert, so if running a crawl on SD (which WILL HAPPEN during any event of this magnitude on ANY serious news station) requires switching to another source, it's back to upconverted SD.

On the other hand, it may be just a policy decision on ABC5's part that the crawl must run on both streams even if it means temporarily losing the HD from digital.

Whatever the case, HD is not going to be perfect for a while because the HD is in most cases just an "add-on" to an analog plant, and different stations are going to be handling it in different ways unless and until they redesign their master controls with their future needs in mind.

I have been having issues with KCCI DT over the air. It comes in at 100% signal, but it will drop to 0% and most of the time just pixalate for a second or so and bounce right back to 100%. It does this about once every five minutes or so. Once in awhile it will actually loose off air signal enough to have the off air signal lost message pop up, it will find signal again within seconds and go back to 100%.

I also get Who DT at 100% signal strength with no problems. I get the others as well Fox, Woi, Iptv etc... at between 80 and 90% with no drop out.

Has anyone else been experiencing this problem with KCCI DT over the air?

Phasing from 100 to nothing sounds an awful like like multi-path messing with your signal. By any chance do you know when this started happening? (Or even better yet, did you have a chance to watch earlier this week when the power level was lower?) I've heard of a few viewers who received the station better when we were at reduced levels this past week due to the ice storm and then when power came back to 100% they started having problems.

Phasing from 100 to nothing sounds an awful like like multi-path messing with your signal. By any chance do you know when this started happening? (Or even better yet, did you have a chance to watch earlier this week when the power level was lower?) I've heard of a few viewers who received the station better when we were at reduced levels this past week due to the ice storm and then when power came back to 100% they started having problems.

You know what I have noticed it for a while now, and there was a period of time when it quit doing it, maybe in the last week or so. I thought the problem had just taken care of its self and now the problem is back. I don't know the exact dates, but this weekend and I think the middle of the week it has been doing it all the time. Maybe it was the week of Feb 19 or so that it seemed to be working ok again and then it started back up probably late that week or the weekend of Feb 24th or so, I am just guessing on these dates, but it definitley was ok for a while and then not again. Prior to the last Month or so I have never had any problems at all. Has the power been increased from the previous year or so that I have been receiving it with no problems.

If it is a multi path problem, what would I possibly need to do to try and eliminate it? Antenna adjustment?

Thanks.

You can try adjusting your antenna, or get a higher gain (bigger/better) antenna that does a better job of discriminating against reflections (narrower forward beam width).

The XG-9 antenna is quite narrow (and expensive), and UHF only, which won't serve you very well in a year or so when some of our UHF HD stations go back to VHF. It could solve your multi-path issues for now...but ....

As I recall KCCI is going back to VHF, and so is WOI...I can't recall what the others are doing.

Maybe someone can list where all the locals are going to be frequency wise?

I currently have a VHF/UHF antenna on my two story house. I have been using it for at least two years. I bought it at radio shack. don't remember the model number, but do remember buying one that was rated better for distance. I have never had a problem with KCCI until now. I did look at the antenna and am questioning that it may have possibly rotated at bit. It looks to me like it is pointing more due east instead of to the south east, like I thought I had it pointed. Maybe in all the storms etc... it has turned to the east more. Never look at it much when things are working well. Won't be going up on the roof anytime soon, until the snow melts off anyway.
Any other input would be helpfull.
Thanks for your reply.

I'll bet it turned in the wind. I had the same thing happen to one of my antennas, but fortunately it is on a spare TV. Mispointing can cause both weaker signals and increase multi-path, so I'm betting that's what happened.

I'd agree with Hasan's & your assessment that the antenna has probably changed orientation just a bit. The power level from the transmitter hasn't been changed from this past year. It does go through fluctuations at times, but unless you are at the far end of the weak fringe area you really shouldn't notice them as it's normally a 1-2% power change.

Should also look at your coax connections also along with the elements and the pre-amp as water could of got in and frezze and do damge. I know you have been whipped in last 2 weeks as in cold, wind, rain, snow and ice. Look at the bright side spring is not too far off. :)

-Willie

You can try adjusting your antenna, or get a higher gain (bigger/better) antenna that does a better job of discriminating against reflections (narrower forward beam width).

The XG-9 antenna is quite narrow (and expensive), and UHF only, which won't serve you very well in a year or so when some of our UHF HD stations go back to VHF. It could solve your multi-path issues for now...but ....

As I recall KCCI is going back to VHF, and so is WOI...I can't recall what the others are doing.

Maybe someone can list where all the locals are going to be frequency wise?
As a recap:

- WOI, KCCI, KDIN and WHO have elected to return to VHF channels 5, 8, 11 and 13, respectively.

- KDSM plans to stay in UHF on channel 16.

- KCWI had planned to flash-cut its analog to 23, and sister station KDMI (where KCWI's digital currently is) had filed for channel 31.

As a recap:

- WOI, KCCI, KDIN and WHO have elected to return to VHF channels 5, 8, 11 and 13, respectively.

- KDSM plans to stay in UHF on channel 16.

- KCWI had planned to flash-cut its analog to 23, and sister station KDMI (where KCWI's digital currently is) had filed for channel 31.

Where could I get this info for the Cedar Rapids stations?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

Here is an update. I had a indoor antenna I bought when I first starting trying to get HD over the air. I hooked it up and it pulls in 8.1 at about 80% vs 100% with the antenna on the roof. Thing is I am still getting the same result, signal drops and pixalates for a second or it looses signal all together for about 5 seconds or less and then comes right back. This should take bad wire, freezing connections etc.. out of the equation, since it just hooks up with a 6' piece of coax inside the house and doesn't use any of the existing cable. 13.1,17.1 also still come in fine on this antenna with no drop outs. It will not pull in 5.1, but I expected that with the indoor antenna, that is the reason I bought the roof mount in the first place.
I will still try adjusting the roof antenna when the weather allows. The only other thing I can think of is I did have my vip 211 replaced about a month ago or so due to a dead hdmi port.
I never had any trouble with the signal on my old 211 or the dish 811 I had before that. Could it be an issue with the sat receiver?
Thanks again.

Yes, it could be the receiver, since you tried two different antennas and feedlines. The only thing that might confuse things is your indoor antenna may not be getting enough signal and thus confusing you a bit. If you can get your indoor antenna situated where you are sure you are getting enough signal, and the problem persists, I would try a different receiver. (have you tried going directly to your HDTV's tuner (if it has one) and seeing if the signal problems go away?)

That would most certainly point to the other receiver.

My tv is hd ready, no receiver. I am sure I am getting enough signal on the indoor antenna, as 13.1 and 17.1 are fine using it. I guess I may have to call dish and explain the problem and see if they will swap out the receiver. That is always a lot of fun. Then who knows if I swap I could get one with a bad hdmi again. Maybe I should go out and buy an OTA receiver and give that a try.

Where could I get this info for the Cedar Rapids stations?

Thanks in advance,
Mike
We discuss that in the Cedar Rapids thread, of course ... but to save you a couple of clicks:

- KWWL (NBC) and KCRG (ABC) are planning to return to VHF channels 7 and 9 respectively.

- KGAN (CBS) has indicated it will stay on UHF channel 51 after the transition and will give up its physical channel 2. That's understandable, of course, given how noisy that end of the band has become over the years.

- IPTV plans to keep its transmitter between Waterloo and Cedar Rapids on UHF, but its transmitter east of Iowa City is expected to go back to VHF channel 12.

- The remaining area stations -- KFXA (Fox), KWKB (CW with MyNetwork programming after 9 p.m.) and KPXR (Ion, formerly Pax) -- are staying UHF.

FYI - I sent KCCI an email asking them when DirecTV would air their HD programming and that DirecTV said they were the ones holding it up. Here is the reply.

Don: Thanks for your e-mail. You did not specify your location, but assuming
you live in the 35-county Des Moines market area (DMA)...it appears you have been misinformed(or misled) by your satellite provider as to the reason they are not providing the Des Moines stations' Digital/HD channels to you.
The selection of local broadcast signals uplinked by the satellite carriers
(DirecTV and DISH Network) is determined by each of those companies, and is not under our control.KCCI-DT began Digital/HD broadcasts over 4 years ago...and both satellite companies havereceived our permission to rebroadcast the KCCI-DT signal to their subscribers. Last October, DirecTV announced their plans to begin carrying the Des Moines' stations Digital/HDTV channels (including KCCI-DT) by the end of 2006. However, we're still waiting for DirecTV to actually begin this HDTV service in Central Iowa. We're hopeful that it will begin in the near future...(DirecTV last told us they would begin uplinking KCCI'sDigital/HD signal sometime prior to March 31st).

In the meantime, viewers in the KCCI signal area whose HDTV sets are equipped
with a Digital TV tuner and connected to a properly-installed UHF antenna can view KCCI-DT, whichbroadcasts over-the-air at full-power on UHF Channel 31. (Once tuned to Channel 31, most Digital receivers will display our HDTV signal as "Channel 8-1".)

I hope the above facts are helpful. Thanks for your interest in KCCI-DT

Bob Day
KCCI Operations Manager

We discuss that in the Cedar Rapids thread, of course ... but to save you a couple of clicks:

- KWWL (NBC) and KCRG (ABC) are planning to return to VHF channels 7 and 9 respectively.

- KGAN (CBS) has indicated it will stay on UHF channel 51 after the transition and will give up its physical channel 2. That's understandable, of course, given how noisy that end of the band has become over the years.

- IPTV plans to keep its transmitter between Waterloo and Cedar Rapids on UHF, but its transmitter east of Iowa City is expected to go back to VHF channel 12.

- The remaining area stations -- KFXA (Fox), KWKB (CW with MyNetwork programming after 9 p.m.) and KPXR (Ion, formerly Pax) -- are staying UHF.

Thanks very much for the info. I'm still curious how you get this info from the stations. Is there an official source, or did you have to e-mail each of them? I'm getting ready to improve my antenna, but I want to make sure it works more than one year!

Thanks a TON for the info on KCCI HD via D*....my contact dried up, and getting that email response is outstanding. I'd believe KCCI before some D* rep.

I also like his recommendation for an OTA antenna. I get them (as well as all the other major networks) on my D* HR20 HD DVR very nicely here north of Ogden, and have no plans to "switch" to watching MPEG-4 HD Locals via the satellite.

OTA is, and most likely will continue to be superior to any satellite or cable delivered signal. OTA is the Gold Standard of PQ (if you get a signal), despite satellite and/or cable company claims to the contrary. The science is all on OTA's side, while the marketing is in the hands of the sat/cable people. :p

Thanks a TON for the info on KCCI HD via D*....my contact dried up, and getting that email response is outstanding. I'd believe KCCI before some D* rep.

I also like his recommendation for an OTA antenna. I get them (as well as all the other major networks) on my D* HR20 HD DVR very nicely here north of Ogden, and have no plans to "switch" to watching MPEG-4 HD Locals via the satellite.

OTA is, and most likely will continue to be superior to any satellite or cable delivered signal. OTA is the Gold Standard of PQ (if you get a signal), despite satellite and/or cable company claims to the contrary. The science is all on OTA's side, while the marketing is in the hands of the sat/cable people. :p

No problem. I'm just glad I could contribute a little somthing here. I always find tons of great info here. :)

Anybody know if I buy a Direct TV H20-100 HD Receiver, if I can use the OTA feature with out subscribing to Direct TV? I found one at a good price and thought I may try it for just the over the air channels, as I have dishnetwork and am having trouble with reception on one of my over the air hd channels. I thought maybe a difference hd receiver may take care of the problem.

Anybody know if I buy a Direct TV H20-100 HD Receiver, if I can use the OTA feature with out subscribing to Direct TV? I found one at a good price and thought I may try it for just the over the air channels, as I have dishnetwork and am having trouble with reception on one of my over the air hd channels. I thought maybe a difference hd receiver may take care of the problem.

It is my understanding that the OTA tuner is not active unless the box is set up to receive the Sat channels. I don't think you can get past the initial screens.

Thanks very much for the info. I'm still curious how you get this info from the stations. Is there an official source, or did you have to e-mail each of them? I'm getting ready to improve my antenna, but I want to make sure it works more than one year!Over the past few years, each station has had to file several forms with the FCC concerning how they would handle the transition to digital and what channel they would choose for their post-transition operation. The forms are a public record and you can find them through the FCC's CDBS database search (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/cdbs.html). There's also a table here in Acrobat (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1082A2.pdf) and here in Excel format (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1082A2.xls).

- Stations used Form 381 to declare whether they indended to maximize their digital coverage area, replicate their analog coverage area with their digital, or operate permanently according to some other permit they have.

- Form 382 was the "first round election" form. Stations used it to select their preferred post-transition channel between 2 and 51.

Most stations chose between their current analog and their current digital (i.e.: WHO, analog 13/digital 19, chose 13.) A few stations negotiated for a more favorable position (i.e.: KWQC in Davenport, analog 6/DT 56, negotiated with IPTV for the channel 36 they will be giving up after the transition.) And a few stations too new to get a DT channel, such as KCWI, had to decide whether to go to the next round or elect to "flash-cut" their analog station to digital on 2-17-09. (KCWI owner Pappas has since aquired another digital-only license.)

- Form 383 was the "first round conflict decision" form. A few stations had to file that form because the FCC feared interference conflicts with other nearby stations. Those stations could either select another channel, submit technical data to prove their first choice was OK, or submit a resolution agreement with the other station involved. As I recall, KCCI, KCRG and WHO had to submit this form and ultimately kept their original choices.

There was also a second and third round for stations who still didn't have an in-core channel after round 1, but as far as I know no station in Iowa has had to go beyond Form 383.

Thanks letstub

I am with hasan that I am mostly fine with OTA. I ge them with a small indoor antenna on the HR20. But at time I have some issue with reception on 5-1 or 17-1 I can normally adjust antenna to get it with no breakups if I at home. If I am out sometimes get pixelation so it would be nice to get via D* as well.

Have a few friends who would like it via D*.

sounds encouraging we may see some progress this month.

Yes, it could be the receiver, since you tried two different antennas and feedlines. The only thing that might confuse things is your indoor antenna may not be getting enough signal and thus confusing you a bit. If you can get your indoor antenna situated where you are sure you are getting enough signal, and the problem persists, I would try a different receiver. (have you tried going directly to your HDTV's tuner (if it has one) and seeing if the signal problems go away?)

That would most certainly point to the other receiver.

I went and bought an LG DR787T at best buy. It has a dvd player and recorder as well as the over the air tuner for both uhf and vhf. Hooked it up last night and KCCI comes in flawlessly as well as the other OTA HD stations. I had called dish early this week and they said they would send a tech out to check my connections etc... They wanted 50.00 for the service call. I told them no way, they just sent me the receiver and everything was fine before that and that I had been using the same antenna with no problems for two years. When they heard I installed the antenna myself they acted like it was a big deal. Asked me did you ground it correctly blah blah blah.... They said they would wave the 50.00 charge and scheduled a tech to come the end of March.
I guess I will call them back and let them know the tuner I bought works fine on my self installed antenna and that the receiver they sent just has a problem. I even noticed last night that on the dish 211 espnhd was freezing up briefly from time to time.
In my opinon they need to forget the tech visit and ship me out another tuner.

Hey guys. Just got Dish Network with the 622 HD/DVR and I love it.

I live in Fort Dodge, Iowa. I was wondering if it was necessary to mount an antenna on my roof and if so what type to go with.

Also, if I can just use an indoor antenna please recommend one. I live about 90 miles north, northwest of Des Moines. Looking to pick up all locals in HD.

Also, is it true that ABC does not have a digital (HD) broadcast?

Thanks!

ABC5 (WOI-DT) was late to the party, but it does have a digital broadcast with HD. However, the FCC stuck them on UHF channel 59 and viewers are reporting varying success getting it.

The towers are actually located about halfway between Ames and Des Moines, near Alleman, so you're actually about 55 miles away from the towers, "as the crow flies." I would think that an indoor antenna would be a stretch either way, though. I'm originally from Ames, where reception is relatively easy, and I'm about 25 miles from my current market's tower clusters, so I wouldn't know for sure.

ABC5 (WOI-DT) was late to the party, but it does have a digital broadcast with HD. However, the FCC stuck them on UHF channel 59 and viewers are reporting varying success getting it.

The towers are actually located about halfway between Ames and Des Moines, near Alleman, so you're actually about 55 miles away from the towers, "as the crow flies." I would think that an indoor antenna would be a stretch either way, though. I'm originally from Ames, where reception is relatively easy, and I'm about 25 miles from my current market's tower clusters, so I wouldn't know for sure.
Hmm... I have tried an old amplified indoor antenna I had laying around with some success. I get about a 70% signal for KCCI 8-01 and 8-02 and have no problem getting IPTV but channel 13 and 17 don't come in. This is a fairly cheap indoor antenna not made for HDTV so I was wondering if an upgrade would suffice or simply to squash it and go outdoor.

Either way I need some brand name recommendations.

Thanks.

Hmm... I have tried an old amplified indoor antenna I had laying around with some success. I get about a 70% signal for KCCI 8-01 and 8-02 and have no problem getting IPTV but channel 13 and 17 don't come in. This is a fairly cheap indoor antenna not made for HDTV so I was wondering if an upgrade would suffice or simply to squash it and go outdoor.

Either way I need some brand name recommendations.

Thanks.
The signals in your area are around that "marginal" level where you can probably get it to work for all the channels using an indoor antenna. You should probably experiment with positioning your current antenna higher and making sure it's got as clear a shot as possible in the direction of the transmitters (this doesn't cost anything, so it's probably worth a try). However, if you want a more stable setup where you'll get fewer dropouts and don't have to fiddle with the antenna all the time, then I'd recommend getting a better antenna and mounting it in the attic (roof is even better if you are open to that).

All the channels come from the same cluster of transmitters except for KTIN, which comes from exactly the opposite direction. For this scenario, I think a Channel Master 4221 4-bay antenna pointed directly at the main cluster at azimuth 149 degrees would work. Since KTIN in closer, stronger, and coming from the opposite direction, I think enough signal will get in from the back side of the antenna to get all the channels simultaneously without needing an antenna rotator. Azimuths listed are relative to true north (like on a map). You can get the difference between true-north and compass-north by using this (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp) web site.

If you are planning on splitting the signal to multiple desitnations or if the cable length from the antenna to the receiver is getting long (over 50 feet), it's probably also a good idea to install a pre-amp like the Channel Master 7775 near the antenna.


Good luck!


Best regards,
Andy

The signals in your area are around that "marginal" level where you can probably get it to work for all the channels using an indoor antenna. You should probably experiment with positioning your current antenna higher and making sure it's got as clear a shot as possible in the direction of the transmitters (this doesn't cost anything, so it's probably worth a try). However, if you want a more stable setup where you'll get fewer dropouts and don't have to fiddle with the antenna all the time, then I'd recommend getting a better antenna and mounting it in the attic (roof is even better if you are open to that).

All the channels come from the same cluster of transmitters except for KTIN, which comes from exactly the opposite direction. For this scenario, I think a Channel Master 4221 4-bay antenna pointed directly at the main cluster at azimuth 149 degrees would work. Since KTIN in closer, stronger, and coming from the opposite direction, I think enough signal will get in from the back side of the antenna to get all the channels simultaneously without needing an antenna rotator. Azimuths listed are relative to true north (like on a map). You can get the difference between true-north and compass-north by using this (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp) web site.

If you are planning on splitting the signal to multiple desitnations or if the cable length from the antenna to the receiver is getting long (over 50 feet), it's probably also a good idea to install a pre-amp like the Channel Master 7775 near the antenna.


Good luck!


Best regards,
Andy
This information is super, thanks a million. I will take an in depth look at all the info you have provided in the near future when I have the time to soak it all in. Again, thanks!

BTW where can I get something to shoot an azimuth?

BTW where can I get something to shoot an azimuth?
Easiest way is to:

1) Use the NOAA web site (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp) to compute the difference between magnetic-north and true-north for your location. FYI, in your neighborhood, magetic-north is about 2.2 degrees to the east of true-north.

2) Then simply use a decent compass to get your bearings. Most compasses have a dial or tick marks around the edge counting from 0 to 360. If you get the north end of the needle pointed exactly at 0, then the tick marks will give you the desired azimuth.

3) To get that to line up with the azimuths listed on my plots, you need to subtract 2.2 degrees (eastward declinations mean subtract the offset, westward declinations mean add the offset) from the true-north values. So, if you're aiming for azimuth 149, you'll want to aim for 146.8 on your compass.

There's no need to get hung up on being precise here. The antennas themselves have pretty wide radiation pattern "beam widths". In most cases, you can be off by +/- 10 degrees without noticing any difference in signal strength. If you aim it reasonably well, it should still work even with a bit of slop.

One caution about using a compass is that they are easily influenced by nearby metal objects. If the compass is too close to the mast, antenna, or other metal objects, you might not be able to trust the reading. It's best to move the compass to multiple spots away from as much metal as possible to verify that you're getting the correct reading.

If you are outdoors (i.e., rooftop), an easier thing to do is take your reading out in the open (no nearby metal), look along the desired azimuth toward the horizon as if you're sighting with a rifle, and note any landmarks at that spot on the horizon. Then go back you your antenna and aim it at the same point on the horizon and you're done.

Best regards,
Andy

Hmm... I have tried an old amplified indoor antenna I had laying around with some success. I get about a 70% signal for KCCI 8-01 and 8-02 and have no problem getting IPTV but channel 13 and 17 don't come in. This is a fairly cheap indoor antenna not made for HDTV so I was wondering if an upgrade would suffice or simply to squash it and go outdoor.

Either way I need some brand name recommendations.

Thanks.
Fort dodge here also w/dish 622.I spent all day trying to get my radio shack ota antenna (vu-190xr 15-2507 amplifier)working.I can get 11 13 and 21 at 60%.I'm kind of pissed I have a giant 10 ft amplified antenna and cant pick up anything :mad: .I cant believe your getting anything with an indoor antenna.Anybody have any ideas to try?The antenna is about 20 ft in the air maybe it needs to be higher?

Fort dodge here also w/dish 622.I spent all day trying to get my radio shack ota antenna (vu-190xr 15-2507 amplifier)working.I can get 11 13 and 21 at 60%.I'm kind of pissed I have a giant 10 ft amplified antenna and cant pick up anything :mad: .I cant believe your getting anything with an indoor antenna.Anybody have any ideas to try?The antenna is about 20 ft in the air maybe it needs to be higher?
Wow that sucks. I was just watching channel 8-01 (KCCI) with about 70-74% signal with my indoor antenna. Something isn't adding up with your setup for sure. Did you point it to the proper azimuth?

Wow that sucks. I was just watching channel 8-01 (KCCI) with about 70-74% signal with my indoor antenna. Something isn't adding up with your setup for sure. Did you point it to the proper azimuth?

You actually may have too much signal...the amp could be killing the front end of the receiver. Get a variable attenuator and try adjusting it for a somewhat weaker signal. It is VERY easy to overdrive tuners.

I tried bypassing the amp all together and just running the cable to the receiver and it gets nothing.If I get too much signal shouldn't I be getting more than 60%? I tried hooking the antenna up to my tv to get analog signals and I barely get 5 8 13 and no 17.I'll look for a variable attenuator,I cant see any at radioshack online any suggestions?.Also if it matters I'm running 100ft of rg6 (yes it needs to be that long) I'm going to try some better cable and a shorter run and see if that matters,the cable I'm using looks cheap.

I tried bypassing the amp all together and just running the cable to the receiver and it gets nothing.If I get too much signal shouldn't I be getting more than 60%? I tried hooking the antenna up to my tv to get analog signals and I barely get 5 8 13 and no 17.I'll look for a variable attenuator,I cant see any at radioshack online any suggestions?.Also if it matters I'm running 100ft of rg6 (yes it needs to be that long) I'm going to try some better cable and a shorter run and see if that matters,the cable I'm using looks cheap.
Didn't I read somewhere to keep it under 50 ft?

Didn't I read somewhere to keep it under 50 ft?

With a properly operating preamp at the antenna, the coax length is not much of a problem.

The issue isn't 60% ...the question: is a particular station already strong enough that when you amplify it, it overdrives the tuner. I'm not saying it is...but I'd sure want to try a variable attenuator.

Try a google search: 75 ohm variable attenuator

I'm told RS doesn't carry them any longer.

As I recall, Ft. Dodge is a bit down in a hole...although I certainly would expect a good antenna at 20' with an antenna mounted preamp would get all the Alleman stations easily.

With a properly operating preamp at the antenna, the coax length is not much of a problem.

The issue isn't 60% ...the question: is a particular station already strong enough that when you amplify it, it overdrives the tuner. I'm not saying it is...but I'd sure want to try a variable attenuator.

Try a google search: 75 ohm variable attenuator

I'm told RS doesn't carry them any longer.

As I recall, Ft. Dodge is a bit down in a hole...although I certainly would expect a good antenna at 20' with an antenna mounted preamp would get all the Alleman stations easily.
Its a hole alright ;)

ABC5 (WOI-DT) was late to the party, but it does have a digital broadcast with HD. However, the FCC stuck them on UHF channel 59 and viewers are reporting varying success getting it.

The towers are actually located about halfway between Ames and Des Moines, near Alleman, so you're actually about 55 miles away from the towers, "as the crow flies." I would think that an indoor antenna would be a stretch either way, though. I'm originally from Ames, where reception is relatively easy, and I'm about 25 miles from my current market's tower clusters, so I wouldn't know for sure.
Why can't my receiver find ABC. It is listed on WOI as either 5.1 or 59 but my 622 dish network receiver does not find it. It finds cbs, nbc, and fox just fine?

Its a hole alright ;)
Yeah no doubt! :p

Why can't my receiver find ABC. It is listed on WOI as either 5.1 or 59 but my 622 dish network receiver does not find it. It finds cbs, nbc, and fox just fine?

If you are using an indoor amplified antenna in Fort Dodge you would be extremely lucky to find woi on your receiver. I live in Gowrie and can not pull in woi on a amplified indoor antenna. I receive it just fine with my roof mounted antenna on my two story house.

The likely reason your receiver does not find it is because there is no signal being picked up by the antenna to send to the receiver. You will need a good Uhf or combo UHf/VHF antenna mounted outside to pull in woi.

Hope this helps

If you are using an indoor amplified antenna in Fort Dodge you would be extremely lucky to find woi on your receiver. I live in Gowrie and can not pull in woi on a amplified indoor antenna. I receive it just fine with my roof mounted antenna on my two story house.

The likely reason your receiver does not find it is because there is no signal being picked up by the antenna to send to the receiver. You will need a good Uhf or combo UHf/VHF antenna mounted outside to pull in woi.

Hope this helps
Ok I tuned it in good enough to catch the channel. Going to run out to Sears today to see about getting a decent rooftop HDTV antenna. Any suggestions before I splurge?

No sorry it doesn't. It finds FOX and NBC and there is no signal for either. Does anyone know how to manually search for it with the 622HD/DVR? Is that possible?

Another thing. What is a good outdoor antenna?

You can go here http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx and it will help you determine what you need for an antenna. The box the antenna comes in will be color coded. You just go to the site above, put in your address and it will tell you what color code antenna you should buy.

I used this site and just bought a combo uhf/vhf antenna with the color code recommended for my address and all HD locals come in fine. I got my antenna at radio shack, but I think I have seen the same thing at both Wal-Mart and Menards. You don't need any fancy HDTV antenna. Just point the uhf end towards the towers and you should be fine.

You can go here http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx and it will help you determine what you need for an antenna. The box the antenna comes in will be color coded. You just go to the site above, put in your address and it will tell you what color code antenna you should buy.

I used this site and just bought a combo uhf/vhf antenna with the color code recommended for my address and all HD locals come in fine. I got my antenna at radio shack, but I think I have seen the same thing at both Wal-Mart and Menards. You don't need any fancy HDTV antenna. Just point the uhf end towards the towers and you should be fine.
Hmm I need a violet antenna. My wife works at Menards and I get a 10% discount so I think I'll just go there! Thanks for the tips.

Just got back from Menards, Wal-Mart, Sears, and Radio Shack. Nothing appealing in any of those places. I just want a violet coded rooftop antenna that is relatively simple to install and offers a good quality digital signal via UHF. Anyone have any suggestions. I am going to order online since my local B&M stores are so lame.

The signals in your area are around that "marginal" level where you can probably get it to work for all the channels using an indoor antenna. You should probably experiment with positioning your current antenna higher and making sure it's got as clear a shot as possible in the direction of the transmitters (this doesn't cost anything, so it's probably worth a try). However, if you want a more stable setup where you'll get fewer dropouts and don't have to fiddle with the antenna all the time, then I'd recommend getting a better antenna and mounting it in the attic (roof is even better if you are open to that).

All the channels come from the same cluster of transmitters except for KTIN, which comes from exactly the opposite direction. For this scenario, I think a Channel Master 4221 4-bay antenna pointed directly at the main cluster at azimuth 149 degrees would work. Since KTIN in closer, stronger, and coming from the opposite direction, I think enough signal will get in from the back side of the antenna to get all the channels simultaneously without needing an antenna rotator. Azimuths listed are relative to true north (like on a map). You can get the difference between true-north and compass-north by using this (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp) web site.

If you are planning on splitting the signal to multiple desitnations or if the cable length from the antenna to the receiver is getting long (over 50 feet), it's probably also a good idea to install a pre-amp like the Channel Master 7775 near the antenna.


Good luck!


Best regards,
Andy
Are you sure the 4221 will suffice or do I need the 4228? I read the 4221 is only good for 40 miles and am 55 miles away.

Perhaps I could use the 4221 with a pre-amp? Or is the 4228 with no preamp a better solution?

Anyone around Fort Dodge have a Winegard antenna? They are a local company in Burlington, IA. If anyone has one of these please state where you live, which model you have, and if you like it.

Channel Master (model 3018) is a good antenna for about $60 or $70 at Lowes. Then of course the step up (3020) would be better for $100, but much larger physically. I have the 3018 on a 10' mast on my roof and does pretty good except I live in a very low valley area in WDM with large hill, trees and house toward the direction of the Alaman towers, so channel 5.1 and 13.1 are sometimes hit or miss, specially when it's windy. I use a variable Radio Shack 22db amplifier and had to turn it down in order to get 13.1 at all.

Here's a link to those antennas:
http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/antennas_outdoor_advantage.html

Channel Master (model 3018) is a good antenna for about $60 or $70 at Lowes. Then of course the step up (3020) would be better for $100, but much larger physically. I have the 3018 on a 10' mast on my roof and does pretty good except I live in a very low valley area in WDM with large hill, trees and house toward the direction of the Alaman towers, so channel 5.1 and 13.1 are sometimes hit or miss, specially when it's windy. I use a variable Radio Shack 22db amplifier and had to turn it down in order to get 13.1 at all.

Here's a link to those antennas:
http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/antennas_outdoor_advantage.html
Thanks Jeff. I'm leaning toward the channel master 4228 or 4221 right now. Anyone else have any input?

Thanks Jeff. I'm leaning toward the channel master 4228 or 4221 right now. Anyone else have any input?Keep in mind...those are UHF only antennas and what I think I read here is that most of the local channels are going to switch back to VHF on or after 2009 when the Feds mandate the anolog channels be turned off. Maybe I'm wrong here so someone that knows more PLEASE chime in.

Keep in mind...those are UHF only antennas and what I think I read here is that most of the local channels are going to switch back to VHF on or after 2009 when the Feds mandate the anolog channels be turned off. Maybe I'm wrong here so someone that knows more PLEASE chime in.
Unfortunately I thought I read somewhere between the 90 pages here that there was no need to worry about that, however, I have not the time or the energy to dig through here. Anyone care to elaborate? And thanks for the heads up Jeff.

Channel Master (model 3018) is a good antenna for about $60 or $70 at Lowes. Then of course the step up (3020) would be better for $100, but much larger physically. I have the 3018 on a 10' mast on my roof and does pretty good except I live in a very low valley area in WDM with large hill, trees and house toward the direction of the Alaman towers, so channel 5.1 and 13.1 are sometimes hit or miss, specially when it's windy. I use a variable Radio Shack 22db amplifier and had to turn it down in order to get 13.1 at all.

Here's a link to those antennas:
http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/antennas_outdoor_advantage.html
Hey another question about that 3018 can you hook your FM receiver to those and what is required to do that if so?

Unfortunately I thought I read somewhere between the 90 pages here that there was no need to worry about that, however, I have not the time or the energy to dig through here. Anyone care to elaborate? And thanks for the heads up Jeff.


Here a link about the who is going or staying at 2-17-09. there is 30 something pages so I will let you look it up yourself as you know what you can get or not.

Hopes this helps :)

-Willie


There is 1 more round left it mostly covers the station 2-6 they may choose a VHF high or UHF.

Here a link about the who is going or staying at 2-17-09. there is 30 something pages so I will let you look it up yourself as you know what you can get or not.

Hopes this helps :)

-Willie


There is 1 more round left it mostly covers the station 2-6 they may choose a VHF high or UHF.


Uhhhh...where's the link?

Here a link about the who is going or staying at 2-17-09. there is 30 something pages so I will let you look it up yourself as you know what you can get or not.

Hopes this helps :)

-Willie


There is 1 more round left it mostly covers the station 2-6 they may choose a VHF high or UHF.
No link dude?

Crazy. I have a simple indoor antenna hooked up right now and I am getting all 8-1, 13-1, 17-1, and 21-1 all at 70% or better. Earlier today I could only get a fair signal with 8-1 and 21-1. I'm sure it will fade back to nil in no time. Kind of funny though that my rabbit ears can pick up digital broadcasts 55 miles away.

No link dude?


I guess it would help if I pasted the link huh! :o Sorry about that but here the link. It in the Local HDTV Info under the thread Third Round Digital Channel Elections

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8385885&&#post8385885


-Willie

Here is some information on the channels switching over to vhf in the future. Found this just two pages back.

Originally Posted by hasan
You can try adjusting your antenna, or get a higher gain (bigger/better) antenna that does a better job of discriminating against reflections (narrower forward beam width).

The XG-9 antenna is quite narrow (and expensive), and UHF only, which won't serve you very well in a year or so when some of our UHF HD stations go back to VHF. It could solve your multi-path issues for now...but ....

As I recall KCCI is going back to VHF, and so is WOI...I can't recall what the others are doing.

Maybe someone can list where all the locals are going to be frequency wise?


As a recap:

- WOI, KCCI, KDIN and WHO have elected to return to VHF channels 5, 8, 11 and 13, respectively.

- KDSM plans to stay in UHF on channel 16.

- KCWI had planned to flash-cut its analog to 23, and sister station KDMI (where KCWI's digital currently is) had filed for channel 31.

Here is some information on the channels switching over to vhf in the future. Found this just two pages back.

Originally Posted by hasan
You can try adjusting your antenna, or get a higher gain (bigger/better) antenna that does a better job of discriminating against reflections (narrower forward beam width).

The XG-9 antenna is quite narrow (and expensive), and UHF only, which won't serve you very well in a year or so when some of our UHF HD stations go back to VHF. It could solve your multi-path issues for now...but ....

As I recall KCCI is going back to VHF, and so is WOI...I can't recall what the others are doing.

Maybe someone can list where all the locals are going to be frequency wise?


As a recap:

- WOI, KCCI, KDIN and WHO have elected to return to VHF channels 5, 8, 11 and 13, respectively.

- KDSM plans to stay in UHF on channel 16.

- KCWI had planned to flash-cut its analog to 23, and sister station KDMI (where KCWI's digital currently is) had filed for channel 31.
Good information, I better get a VHF/UHF/FM antenna then. Perhaps the Channel Master 3018 or 3020...

OK, I got a 20db variable attenuator...Still no good.I started with no signal and after installing the attenuator I can pick up 13 (58%) and 21 (70%).I bypassed the amp and preamp and got nothing.The only way I can pick up anything is the amp maxed out and the attenuator maxed out.I've tried pointing it from 145 to 155 degrees peaked around 148.Any other suggestions?

Hey another question about that 3018 can you hook your FM receiver to those and what is required to do that if so?Sorry it took a day to answer, I just looked back at this thread...it appears that you can hook up FM according to the link I posted previously: http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/antennas_outdoor_advantage.html

OK, I got a 20db variable attenuator...Still no good.I started with no signal and after installing the attenuator I can pick up 13 (58%) and 21 (70%).I bypassed the amp and preamp and got nothing.The only way I can pick up anything is the amp maxed out and the attenuator maxed out.I've tried pointing it from 145 to 155 degrees peaked around 148.Any other suggestions?
You weren't by chance at Menards and then went to Wal-Mart right after that yesterday were ya (looking at antennas)?

You weren't by chance at Menards and then went to Wal-Mart right after that yesterday were ya (looking at antennas)?
Stop following me!!!!!!!!!! :) I figured that was you. I didn't want to say anything and be wrong and end up being "the creepy internet guy".I was talking myself out of buying another antenna (smaller one).I tried one of those indoor amplified antennas from walmart and got the same results as the big setup. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.Tomorrow I'll replace the cable and try again :confused:.I cant believe this is such a pain in the a**.Good luck to ya,you seem to being better than me.

Are you sure the 4221 will suffice or do I need the 4228? I read the 4221 is only good for 40 miles and am 55 miles away.

Perhaps I could use the 4221 with a pre-amp? Or is the 4228 with no preamp a better solution?
At around -80 dBm, I think the signals are pretty solid in your area. It's not good enough to get reliable indoor coverage, but if you're going on the roof, I think the 4221 will be more than enough. The 4228 is probably more than you need and I was hoping to save you a little bit of money. :) In your case, to don't think you're in too much danger of signal overload (on pre-amp), so it shouldn't hurt to go with the better antenna.

Installing a pre-amp depends on how much signal strength you will lose after the antenna. If the cable run is going to be long (more than about 30 feet) or if you are going to split the signal to multiple destinations, then it's probably a good idea to install a pre-amp.


Good luck!


Best regards,
Andy

Stop following me!!!!!!!!!! :) I figured that was you. I didn't want to say anything and be wrong and end up being "the creepy internet guy".I was talking myself out of buying another antenna (smaller one).I tried one of those indoor amplified antennas from walmart and got the same results as the big setup. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.Tomorrow I'll replace the cable and try again :confused:.I cant believe this is such a pain in the a**.Good luck to ya,you seem to being better than me.
I haven't tried anything yet. Just have the indoor amplified antenna by Philips that I bought years ago. It pulls in KCCI fine which is the local I watch the most at the moment but I need WOI and KDSM so tomorrow I'm off to Webster City to the Tru Value to purchase a channel master.

At around -80 dBm, I think the signals are pretty solid in your area. It's not good enough to get reliable indoor coverage, but if you're going on the roof, I think the 4221 will be more than enough. The 4228 is probably more than you need and I was hoping to save you a little bit of money. :) In your case, to don't think you're in too much danger of signal overload (on pre-amp), so it shouldn't hurt to go with the better antenna.

Installing a pre-amp depends on how much signal strength you will lose after the antenna. If the cable run is going to be long (more than about 30 feet) or if you are going to split the signal to multiple destinations, then it's probably a good idea to install a pre-amp.


Good luck!


Best regards,
Andy

Andy since they are rumored to switch back to VHF in the future I am going with a channel master 3018 or 3020. Thoughts on either of those?

It's not a rumor...it's written in stone (or about as stone like as you can get). The info is on the FCC site, and they run the show. For OTA HD, we are going to need both VHF and UHF antennas in ...what is it...2009 or 2008, can't recall.

It's not a rumor...it's written in stone (or about as stone like as you can get). The info is on the FCC site, and they run the show. For OTA HD, we are going to need both VHF and UHF antennas in ...what is it...2009 or 2008, can't recall.
Rumor, stone, makes no difference I am going to have options with the channel master 3018 or 3020 it covers both.

Andy since they are rumored to switch back to VHF in the future I am going with a channel master 3018 or 3020. Thoughts on either of those?
Either one will work fine. The 3020 may be a little more trouble to set up because of its size. If you're going that big, you might consider the 3678 or 3679, which is about the same size, but has better performance.

Best regards,
Andy

Ok Im about to give up.I dont know if I have too many trees blocking the signal or the fact that there are 2 gypsum manufacturing companies in my line of sight.Not that it helps but here is a picture of what my antenna is pointing at.Maybe I can shoot for a different group of antennas? http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/jakethessnake/IMG_0752.jpg

Ok Im about to give up.I dont know if I have too many trees blocking the signal or the fact that there are 2 gypsum manufacturing companies in my line of sight.Not that it helps but here is a picture of what my antenna is pointing at.Maybe I can shoot for a different group of antennas? http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/jakethessnake/IMG_0752.jpg
Send me your coordinates and antenna height (via PM if you want to keep it private), and I'll run an analysis for your location. That might shed some light on the situation.

Best regards,
Andy

Ok Im about to give up.I dont know if I have too many trees blocking the signal or the fact that there are 2 gypsum manufacturing companies in my line of sight.
See the attached radar plot for the analysis of your location. Longer bars represent stronger signals. Azimuths are referenced to true north (like on a map) as opposed to compass-north. Distance is in km, other measurements are in meters.

My interpretation:

- The signals are strong, but not TOO strong. It's unlikely that you will have problems with amp overload. BTW, what make and model of amp are you using?

- I don't think you need to bother with the attenuator. You would only need that if something in your system was getting overloaded and you had to knock down some of the signal. None of the TV signals are strong enough to cause a problem for you. I don't suppose you live right next to an FM transmitter? If not, I'd leave the attenuator out of the picture.

- Your antenna pointing seems just right. It doesn't need to be that precise anyway since the radiation pattern's beam width is at least +/- 15 degrees, so a +/- 5 degree misalignment will hardly matter.


Based on these readings and the antenna you are using, I would expect you to have a VERY EASY time picking up all the channels above -100 dBm under "Rx_dBm" on the radar plot table. If you are having a hard time, then I suspect something may be wrong with the antenna or the RF chain leading to your tuner.

1) Check the antenna for correct assembly. Also make sure the balun (transformer) is connected properly to the feed point on the antenna.

2) Check all coax and connectors. If you are using any hand-made cables, make sure the coax external braid is making good electrical contact with the connector. Also make sure to seal all the connectors since water is a very effective signal attenuator. You need to make sure precipitation/condensation never makes its way into your connectors or coax.

3) Your amp should be installed as close to the antenna as possible. Any specific installation guidelines will depend on what make and model you're using.


To summarize the optimum setup, it should be:

- Antenna, pointed at about 148 degrees
- Short RG-6 coax (~3 ft.) to pre-amp
- Pre-amp, with FM trap enabled, if present
- Long RG-6 coax into house
- Power injector for pre-amp
- More coax or splitter+coax to your tuner(s)
- If split, terminate any unused connections


I really think the signals are there with plenty of power and there's probably a very simple explanation for why that signal can't get from "the air" to your tuner.


Good luck!


Best regards,
Andy

Hi all -

Just wanted to stop by and check in. I'll be moving to the Des Moines area from the Cedar Rapids area in a couple months. Looking forward to catching up on 90 pages worth of "stuff." When moving, any HD info I'll want to consider (that I won't learn from the previous 90 pages)? Thanks!

Thanks again Andy, heres the amp/preamp I'm using it has an fm trap and when I flip the switch I lose everything,must be working?
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094&cp=&sr=1&origkw=signal+amplifier&kw=signal+amplifier&parentPage=search
I've been doubting my cable (its ebay cheap crap) so thats my weekend project.God I hate crawling under my house :( . And I'll also replace the transformer hopefully thats it.There are towers in the area though I'm not sure what they are.

Thanks again Andy, heres the amp/preamp I'm using it has an fm trap and when I flip the switch I lose everything,must be working?
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094&cp=&sr=1&origkw=signal+amplifier&kw=signal+amplifier&parentPage=search
I've been doubting my cable (its ebay cheap crap) so thats my weekend project.God I hate crawling under my house :( . And I'll also replace the transformer hopefully thats it.There are towers in the area though I'm not sure what they are.
The Radio Shack product page is vague on technical specs... It says this product includes both an indoor amp and an outdoor amp. Is that true?

There are other amps that would probably do better (e.g., Winegard 2870 or 4700), but to be honest, the signals ought to be strong enough to work without an amp. If you can fix whatever is causing you to lose signal in your RF chain, then you might try it without the amp first. All the amp does is help you overcome signal loss due to long cables or splitters.

Best regards,
Andy

The Radio Shack product page is vague on technical specs... It says this product includes both an indoor amp and an outdoor amp. Is that true?

There are other amps that would probably do better (e.g., Winegard 2870 or 4700), but to be honest, the signals ought to be strong enough to work without an amp. If you can fix whatever is causing you to lose signal in your RF chain, then you might try it without the amp first. All the amp does is help you overcome signal loss due to long cables or splitters.

Best regards,
Andy
It has a preamp and an amp.I have tried it w/out the amps and got nothing.I think I need the amp because my cable run is 80ft+ but I will try w/out it when I get my new cable

It has a preamp and an amp.I have tried it w/out the amps and got nothing.I think I need the amp because my cable run is 80ft+ but I will try w/out it when I get my new cable


I look up the manual http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/1502507_PM_EN.pdf and it has a adjustable gain have you tried to adjusted the gain ? try the min first then work your way up to max but little at a time. If you have RG-59 coax cable I would get rid of it and I would replace with a Quad RG-6 from the antenna to the indoor amp not much more than RG-6 coax cable. There is too much loss in RG-59 coax.

-Willie

I can only get signal at the max setting.I have rg6 coax I'm hoping to try some r6g quad this weekend.

It has a preamp and an amp.I have tried it w/out the amps and got nothing.I think I need the amp because my cable run is 80ft+ but I will try w/out it when I get my new cable
80 ft. of cable is a good reason to use a pre-amp. I just question whether the second indoor amp is necessary. If the incoming signal is already strong, amplifying them even more can cause what's known as intermodulation products and other bad things relating to amp overload.

The Radio Shack product description is vague, but it mentions something about 30 dB total gain. That's too much. With strong signal coming in and even stronger signal coming out, it's probably too much for the second amp's output to support. Is it possible to only use the pre-amp without the indoor amp? I suspect that the indoor amp also doubles as the power injector for the pre-amp, so perhaps the answer is no.

A lower gain Winegard or Channel Master pre-amp would be much more appropriate. You don't really need an indoor amp unless you are splitting the signal a lot (i.e., 4 or more destinations), in which case, a distribution amplifier is the way to go.

Look at your cable type. It's usually printed right on the cable every couple of feet. You want to be using RG-6, but sometimes people end up with RG-59 instead. Typical RG-59 cable will lose up to about 11 dB of signal at UHF frequencies for every 100 feet of cable. RG-6 cable would typically lose about 7 dB per 100 feet under the same conditions.

RG-59 is also more prone to picking up noise becuase it has relatively poor shielding. The most common type of RG-6 cable has two layers of foil shielding around the outer conductor, which improves the situation quite a bit. In high RF interference environments, you can improve the noise immunity even further by using quad-shielded RG-6, although this kind of cable might be harder to locate and is usually more expensive. There are even better cable options like RG-11, but that's getting into even higher expense with diminishing returns.

If your cable is something different, then you might be dealing with an impedance mismatch problem, but let's first find out what you've got...

Best regards,
Andy

...and more important than gain is Noise Figure. The lower the better, less than 3 dB should be adequate. 2 dB NF is very good, 4 dB is poor, for example. Too much gain (as prior poster noted) is a very bad thing and cascading amps is often problematic. So, you have to consider TWO factors: Gain and Noise Figure. Gain should be kept moderate (certainly less than 20 dB, but more than 10 dB) and NF should be 3 dB or below, for optimized systems.

The one point I would make is if you do need some additional gain in house, I would not use the garden variety distribution amps...they have very poor noise figures and destroy some of the work that your low noise antenna mounted preamp is doing. You can use a 2nd antenna mounted preamp in the house as a distribution amp...you get the best of both worlds...the gain you need for splitting and retain the low noise figure. If this 2nd preamp is needed, set its gain at the lowest possible level (assuming it has a 2 position gain switch as some antenna preamps do)

If the device you are going to use doesn't list its noise figure...it probably is very poor.

For difficult situations, this is what I use:

Antenna > Ant mounted Preamp > Coax to House (50' or more) > Variable Attenuator > Splitter(s) > TV Tuner (or Sat Box w. Tuner)

Don't use the 2nd preamp (the one in the house before the variable attenuator) unless it is absolutely essential...the sensitivity of your system is being set AT THE ANTENNA mounted preamp....any gain after that is more prone to overdrive the tuner than it is likely to help make up for splitter losses.

More than 20 dB gain at any point is probably a bad idea. The variable attenuator can replace the in house preamp if you have too much signal...

Some tuners have VERY POOR dynamic range (the range of the weakest to the strongest signal it can handle), so getting the signals in the "sweet area" may take some playing, hence the variable attenuator.

Ok I replaced the cable,bypassed the amps and replaced the transformer.....13 stations w/80-100% signal. I then tried the old cable (with new compression ends) with the new transformer and it works great.In short I replaced the transformer and put new ends on the cable and it works w/out the amps :). THANK YOU AVS FORUM!!!!!!!

Ok I replaced the cable,bypassed the amps and replaced the transformer.....13 stations w/80-100% signal. I then tried the old cable (with new compression ends) with the new transformer and it works great.In short I replaced the transformer and put new ends on the cable and it works w/out the amps :). THANK YOU AVS FORUM!!!!!!!


I was just going to say check your ends too make sure it sung and not shorting out inside, but you beat me to it. But I am glad that you got the problem resolved and now you can sit back and watch what a true HD siginal is. :)


-Willie

Ive been waiting for this for too long!
Nascar in sd :(
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/jakethessnake/IMG_0758.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/jakethessnake/IMG_0762.jpg

Nascar in hd :D
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/jakethessnake/IMG_0757.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/jakethessnake/IMG_0759-1.jpg

Im getting ready to pull the trigger on an antenna. The CM 3018 states a 45 mile radius and I am 55 miles away is this a bad choice for me?

Or should I go with the 3679.

And what accessories do you recommend?

I'd rather have too much antenna than not enough.My antenna has a range of 100-190 miles (probably a little optimistic) and it works great without any amplification ,or the use of the variable attenuator I bought.I have it mounted on a tripod on the peak of my roof.My suggestion is buy an antenna that has at least a 60 mile range and good cable to go with it along with whatever mounting hardware you need,keep it simple.On the plus side I have leftover parts and tools that I didn't need if you'd like to try them out ;)

Yes, it's my first severe weather season with an HDTV. Gotta love those squeeze & crawls only being capable in SD right now.

I enjoyed Lost being shown in SD for about 45 minutes just so we could be told a repeatedly about a single thunderstorm watch and warning. They can't run this every ten minutes or so? Or just run it on the analog side? If the weather is flaring up, one would surely seek out this information. I don't think people are getting caught too off guard because they were watching a cable channel that doesn't have any local weather bulletins.

The equipment to do this superimposed over the HD stuff must be outrageously expensive.

At least they didn't cut away for a "live report from the weather center" to have someone tell me on camera what I've just seen 97 times as it distractingly crawled on the screen. :rolleyes:

It is really funny for me. I timeshift all of my HD material (so I don't have to watch commercials), so the weather crawls are of no use the next day which is when I usually see them.

I'd rather have too much antenna than not enough.My antenna has a range of 100-190 miles (probably a little optimistic) and it works great without any amplification ,or the use of the variable attenuator I bought.I have it mounted on a tripod on the peak of my roof.My suggestion is buy an antenna that has at least a 60 mile range and good cable to go with it along with whatever mounting hardware you need,keep it simple.On the plus side I have leftover parts and tools that I didn't need if you'd like to try them out ;)

What antenna did you go with Jake?

Also, if I get an antenna that is rated at 60+ miles will I still need a preamp?

And I would like a smaller antenna, some of these long range antennas are huge!

Also, if I get an antenna that is rated at 60+ miles will I still need a preamp?

And I would like a smaller antenna, some of these long range antennas are huge!

Everything starts at the antenna. That is where you can do (by far) the most good. The bigger the better (assuming good design in the first place). An antenna mounted preamp (of good quality like the Ch Master 7777) will be of great help at your distance.

Whether or not you can do without the preamp is a matter of feedline length and qualilty. If you go with a big antenna and your feedline is less than 40', then you might not need the preamp.

If it were me, I would go with the biggest antenna I could tolerate (that at least met the specifications for your distance as shown on antennaweb.org) AND do the preamp. It isn't that expensive, and if you are going to the trouble to put up a good antenna, you might as well do it right. The best possible performance is this:

Big antenna > Antenna mounted preamp > Coax to House > Splitter(s) if desired > TV tuner.

If I were starting all over again, that is exactly what I would do, and I'm only 28 miles from the transmitter antenna farm. My setup is like this:

Medium gain VHF/UHF Antenna > 40' RG-6 > Ch Master 7777 preamp > Splitters > Variable Attenuator > TV Tuners

I'm using the Ch Master ant preamp in the house as a low noise distribution amp.

You could probably get by with a smaller one,but if it doesnt work most stores won't take them back after they have been installed.If you can get a store to exchange for a different one then go for it and try one till it works for you.Mine WOULD NOT work at all w/the preamp-amp,once I bypassed the amps it worked great.My antenna is a radio shack Model: VU-190 XR,in stock for 99.99 at R.S. in the crossroads mall.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103087&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

You could probably get by with a smaller one,but if it doesnt work most stores won't take them back after they have been installed.If you can get a store to exchange for a different one then go for it and try one till it works for you.Mine WOULD NOT work at all w/the preamp-amp,once I bypassed the amps it worked great.My antenna is a radio shack Model: VU-190 XR,in stock for 99.99 at R.S. in the crossroads mall.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103087&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family
Thanks, Jake. So yours would only work WITHOUT the preamp meaning it had too strong of a signal which says to me it is a heck of an antenna. I actually was at Radio Shack here in FD and he told me about this model in stock.

Since Radio Shack is the only location I can locally get a decent antenna, I think I will go make the purchase this afternoon. I will try without the preamp and just get the necessary hardware.

What is an attenuator?

Either the amp/preamp was bad,or it had too strong of a signal.An attenuator restricts the signal a certain amount of db's,its best to get a variable attenuator so you can adjust it to get the desired results.I didn't even use mine though. Be warned,the antenna is freakin' huge.The gf was pretty pissed at first :o ,but she got used to it.

Everything starts at the antenna. That is where you can do (by far) the most good. The bigger the better (assuming good design in the first place). An antenna mounted preamp (of good quality like the Ch Master 7777) will be of great help at your distance.

Whether or not you can do without the preamp is a matter of feedline length and qualilty. If you go with a big antenna and your feedline is less than 40', then you might not need the preamp.

If it were me, I would go with the biggest antenna I could tolerate (that at least met the specifications for your distance as shown on antennaweb.org) AND do the preamp. It isn't that expensive, and if you are going to the trouble to put up a good antenna, you might as well do it right. The best possible performance is this:

Big antenna > Antenna mounted preamp > Coax to House > Splitter(s) if desired > TV tuner.

If I were starting all over again, that is exactly what I would do, and I'm only 28 miles from the transmitter antenna farm. My setup is like this:

Medium gain VHF/UHF Antenna > 40' RG-6 > Ch Master 7777 preamp > Splitters > Variable Attenuator > TV Tuners

I'm using the Ch Master ant preamp in the house as a low noise distribution amp.
Thanks a million, well laid out. I understand better now. Why do you have to use the variable attenuator though?

Also, I would like to split the signal for the upstairs TV would just a standard splitter work or do you need something special?

Either the amp/preamp was bad,or it had too strong of a signal.An attenuator restricts the signal a certain amount of db's,its best to get a variable attenuator so you can adjust it to get the desired results.I didn't even use mine though. Be warned,the antenna is freakin' huge.The gf was pretty pissed at first :o ,but she got used to it.
Muwahahaha Jake. What part of town you iin man? I'm just into the North over by St. Ed's.

Yeah I see it's big. 160x38x95 WOW!! I should be able to get Kansas City, MO's stations with that puppy!

I live in East L.A (east lawn acres),just s/e of the Roman Inn.When I couldn't get the des moines stations, I thought about trying some different ones.I may do that some day when I get bored,after getting on and off my roof about 50 times in the past 2 weeks it doesn't take long at all :)

Thanks a million, well laid out. I understand better now. Why do you have to use the variable attenuator though?

Also, I would like to split the signal for the upstairs TV would just a standard splitter work or do you need something special?


The variable attenuator is to prevent overdriving the input to the tuner (from the gain of the preamp). We want the preamp to set the noise figure of the system, but not provide too much gain for the front end of the tuner.

We need the low noise (noise figure) of the preamp to establish "sensitivity", but we don't necessarily need all the "gain" of the preamp or we will over drive the tuner. The variable attenuator makes the gain of the preamp continuously variable, while maintaining the noise figure of the system, by not putting any losses in FRONT of the preamp. It is ok to attenuate AFTER the preamp, but NOT before.

System sensitivity is set by the noise figure of the first RF amplifier in any system (with at least 10 to 15 dB of gain). That is why the good ones are "antenna or mast mounted" preamps. They should have a noise figure of less than 3 dB..preferably 2 dB or less, with moderate gain (less than 20 dB). If the gain is too high, you need to attenuate it at the output of the preamp (or any place after the preamp and before the TV tuner)

Any losses before the preamp add to the noise figure of the preamp, thus destroying its "low noise figure" design. If you do mount an antenna based preamp, then the coax losses following it become "inconsequential", because the system noise figure has already been "set".

Hope this helps.

Any good quality splitter will work fine.

The variable attenuator is to prevent overdriving the input to the tuner (from the gain of the preamp). We want the preamp to set the noise figure of the system, but not provide too much gain for the front end of the tuner.

We need the low noise (noise figure) of the preamp to establish "sensitivity", but we don't necessarily need all the "gain" of the preamp or we will over drive the tuner. The variable attenuator makes the gain of the preamp continuously variable, while maintaining the noise figure of the system, by not putting any losses in FRONT of the preamp. It is ok to attenuate AFTER the preamp, but NOT before.

System sensitivity is set by the noise figure of the first RF amplifier in any system (with at least 10 to 15 dB of gain). That is why the good ones are "antenna or mast mounted" preamps. They should have a noise figure of less than 3 dB..preferably 2 dB or less, with moderate gain (less than 20 dB). If the gain is too high, you need to attenuate it at the output of the preamp (or any place after the preamp and before the TV tuner)

Any losses before the preamp add to the noise figure of the preamp, thus destroying its "low noise figure" design. If you do mount an antenna based preamp, then the coax losses following it become "inconsequential", because the system noise figure has already been "set".

Hope this helps.

Any good quality splitter will work fine.
I think I get it lol. Got a bit complicated. I am going to try without a preamp since the attenna I am getting will be the same model as Jakes and we live in the same town. He gets a great signal from my understanding so I will give it a whirl.

I have tried 3 indoor antennas and really have not had much success. I live in Des Moines and was wondering if anyone had much success with an indoor antenna to receive the digital local channels?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

I'm in west Urbandale and have no problems with a $9.99 set of rabbit ears from target. TV is in the basement too.

I am in Ames, so it is different, but here is what I have found. The Terk TV5 low profile amplified antenna did an okay job, but the amp seemed to make some channels worse. An ATI HDTV Wonder antenna (comes in the ATI kit) is similar to the look of a Zenith Silver Sensor and it works much better. I ended up putting that little antenna up in my attic (2-story with no obstructions taller between itself and Alleman) and running it through a splitter to a pair of PC ATSC tuner cards. I also tried an older outdoor Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna up in the attic. It is much bigger but actually had slightly worse reception than the little ATI/SilverSensor-like antenna. In the past I had tried an amplified indoor antenna from Radio Shack that was VHF and UHF, but it worked worse than the Terk TV5 (sorry I can't remember the model number). I have seen posts about some little Phillips or Magnavox antenna (indoor) that was available at the large retail outlets that works surprisingly well, but I don't remeber anyone ever giving a model number. If you could give more info on the antenna models you have tried and some idea about your limitations (can you access the attic, etc.) it would help.

I have tried 3 indoor antennas and really have not had much success. I live in Des Moines and was wondering if anyone had much success with an indoor antenna to receive the digital local channels?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

I get KCCI with rabbit ears in Fort Dodge so I don't understand why you can't get them in Des Moines?

Radio frequency signal propagation is a very complicated thing. It can do very strange things, and it is not a one size fits all thing in any sense. You have an ideal case where you are able to get the signals with rabbit ears at greater than twice the distance of someone who is having trouble at half the distance. It would be helpful if you could post your exact model of rabbit ears.

Radio frequency signal propagation is a very complicated thing. It can do very strange things, and it is not a one size fits all thing in any sense. You have an ideal case where you are able to get the signals with rabbit ears at greater than twice the distance of someone who is having trouble at half the distance. It would be helpful if you could post your exact model of rabbit ears.
Its an older amplified set I have had for quite some time. I do not have any documentation nor can I find a number on it.

Here is a comparable model:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2625059

I'm no longer getting the PPV/VOD qam channels on 102/103. Got them last night. Mediacommust have either moved them or scrambled them. Phil

I'm no longer getting the PPV/VOD qam channels on 102/103. Got them last night. Mediacommust have either moved them or scrambled them. Phil
Me neither. I did a new channel scan, and it doesn't appear that they've been moved anywhere. My TV displays "scrambled" for 102 and 103, and "no signal" for 104 and 105. Once in a while Mediacom used 104 and 105 if there was a lot showing, but if they'd moved all the PPV/VOD there the "home" channel should at least have shown up.

Oh well, it was nice for the 2 months I've had my TV/QUAM tuner. :(

I'm no longer getting the PPV/VOD qam channels on 102/103. Got them last night. Mediacommust have either moved them or scrambled them. Phil

Same here but i Now have HBO ZONE & other channels on 83 & 84

See attached radar plot for analysis results. Longer bars represent stronger signals. Details about individual transmitters are given in the table to the right of the plot.



My interpretation:

- The channels are very strong in your area. If you're going to restore your rooftop antenna, I'd recommend that you DO NOT install an amplifier. With such strong signals, it becomes more likely that an amp will be overloaded and make your signal worse. There are some better designed amps that are can handle these signal levels (e.g., from Winegard, etc.), but the more common types from Radio Shack or other antennas with "built-in" amps will probably not do so well.

- KFPX comes from a different direction than the other digital channels, so if you've got a highly directional antenna, you won't be able to get all of them at the same time. There are less directional antennas that would capture them all simultaneously. You could also install and antenna rotator or install two antennas and combine the feeds. It all depends on what kind of antenna you've already got or plan on buying.

- There aren't a whole lot of digital channels within range, but the ones that show up on this plot should come in nice and strong.



If you have any other questions, just let me know. I hope this helps!



Best regards,
Andy

Same here but i Now have HBO ZONE & other channels on 83 & 84

Thanks! I'll check them out. Phil

Me neither. I did a new channel scan, and it doesn't appear that they've been moved anywhere. My TV displays "scrambled" for 102 and 103, and "no signal" for 104 and 105. Once in a while Mediacom used 104 and 105 if there was a lot showing, but if they'd moved all the PPV/VOD there the "home" channel should at least have shown up.

Oh well, it was nice for the 2 months I've had my TV/QUAM tuner. :(

Bummer. I was hoping this wasn't the case but I haven't received any of these channels for a few days either. Thanks for posting. :( On the plus side I guess I don't have to worry about the kids finding "questionable" programming when they are channel surfing. :)

You should ask the kids. They may have figured out where they have been mapped to already...;)

Same here but i Now have HBO ZONE & other channels on 83 & 84

Now I've lost 83 & 84 as well. Phil

Has anyone else lost 95-4?

I noticed it last night, and hoped it would fix itself over night. But it hasn't yet. I am gonna run a scan now and see if it has moved somewhere.

I'm assuming 95-4 is KDSM for you? Mine has always showed up at 95-2 and is still there right now.

I lost 95-4 too, several days ago. I had it set as a favorite and now I can't unfavorite but my tv won't go to digital channels unless they are scanned. So now I can't cycle through my favorites, it's kinda annoying.

Yeah, 95-4 was/is KDSM. I ran a scan last night and 95-4 still showed up, but there is nothing on it (no picture or sound). I find it odd that the TV would pick it up if nothing was being put out.

But I don't pay for the HD tier with Mediacom, so I shouldn't complain too much. It was nice because the only HD channels that I was interested in was the locals. Like the previous poster, my TV will only pick up digital channels when scanning. So I can't hook up an external antenna without rescanning every time I switch. I'm in an apartment with a Mediacom monopoly, so I don't have much choice for the meantime.

Thanks anyway though.
--Nick

Will 13-2 ever come back on thw air? I really liked the radar>

Will 13-2 ever come back on thw air? I really liked the radar>

Only if and when they find a way to satisfy the FCC childrens programming requirements for the additional broadcast channel. One way they could do this is by going with NBC's "Weather Plus" service, which includes childrens programming. But, that is an expensive startup. Otherwise, they're on their own to look for syndication deals for a channel that, to date, has probably had no revenue.

I noticed tonight (Wed, 4/25) I have no signal for all OTAs except 8.1. Anyone else experiencing this?

I've still got all my OTAs @ 9.20pm. Remember that trees are beginning to leaf out and what leaves are there are getting drenched tonight. That can definitely attenuate the signal if it may have previously been on the edge of being received.

Remember that trees are beginning to leaf out and what leaves are there are getting drenched tonight. That can definitely attenuate the signal if it may have previously been on the edge of being received.Ah..yes, I'll bet that's it. I forgot about that. I do sometimes have problems specially in the summer. However, I usually get some kind of signal, even if it's just 20% and no picture but now I get nothing, not even a blip. Your kcci has always been reliable for me. And that's the only channel that has. Thanks kc0bsn!

Mediacom is playing with the digital stations Fox is gone and the sound for one station is with the video from another
Joe

I posted this 2 weeks ago and no one seemed to notice! I'm glad to know I'm not just crazy. I started losing my Fox and it kinda came back off and on. I haven't seen it at all in over a week. I haven't noticed the video and audio problem yet.

Mediacom is just lucky that they have a monopoly and can provide service like this. Or maybe I'm just lucky I've gotten digital TV for so long without paying for the digital package. But it sure was nice when we got the pay-per-view channels without paying . . .

--Nick

I sent my third e-mail to KCWI today. I still can't get 23-1 on my DirecTV HD TiVo to display the programming. All I get is "Regular Programming" all day long. I have to manually set the program to record Smallville at 7pm and manually watch to make sure it's not a rerun by looking at the normal 7pm 23 signal from DirecTV. I also noticed that they are not running at 5.1 Dolby Digital and only Dolby Pro Logic.

Here's the only e-mail address on their website. yourstation@kcwi23.com

I do see their engineer contact info below. Maybe somebody from KCCI or WHO can call him and get this figured out. A year ago I e-mailed WHO and within 24 hours they had the issue with the programming schedule resolved...

Engineering/Operations
Mike Potratz
Chief Engineer
Phone: 515-289-4330

Mediacom is playing with the digital stations Fox is gone and the sound for one station is with the video from another
Joe
I re-scanned and they are all back to normal
Joe

I sent my third e-mail to KCWI today. I still can't get 23-1 on my DirecTV HD TiVo to display the programming. All I get is "Regular Programming" all day long. I have to manually set the program to record Smallville at 7pm and manually watch to make sure it's not a rerun by looking at the normal 7pm 23 signal from DirecTV. I also noticed that they are not running at 5.1 Dolby Digital and only Dolby Pro Logic.

Here's the only e-mail address on their website. yourstation-kcwi23-com

I do see their engineer contact info below. Maybe somebody from KCCI or WHO can call him and get this figured out. A year ago I e-mailed WHO and within 24 hours they had the issue with the programming schedule resolved...

Engineering/Operations
Mike Potratz
Chief Engineer
Phone: 515-289-4330

Program information shows up for me on 56-2 and shown as KDMIDT2... 23-1 shows also but with no program information...so I've just blocked out 23-1 and use 56-2.

My signal has pretty much bottomed out again. I have to about stand my antenna on it's head in some akward positions just to pull in a 60% signal strength. Are they really at full power?
Granted, I'm stuck in an apartment and can't put my antenna outside (which being in a brick-lined structure would likely help.) Currently using (inside) a TERK TV-50. All my other DT's come in near 90% (even WOI-DT)... and KCCI is constantly a perfect 100%.
Any suggestions?

My signal has pretty much bottomed out again. I have to about stand my antenna on it's head in some akward positions just to pull in a 60% signal strength. Are they really at full power?
Granted, I'm stuck in an apartment and can't put my antenna outside (which being in a brick-lined structure would likely help.) Currently using (inside) a TERK TV-50. All my other DT's come in near 90% (even WOI-DT)... and KCCI is constantly a perfect 100%.
Any suggestions?

Buy a diplexer and a second rabbit ears. Point the second one towards the direction where you get WOI and KDSM the best. I discovered that KCCI and WHO are linked together (or it appears that way) and KDSM and WOI are sort of linked.

The crazy thing at my house is I'm at a constant 76% on KCWI and have no breakups even when walking thru the antenna path yet, KCCI can be at 90% and I'll get breakups. Weird. It's something to do with the Multi-path issue with the HR10-250...supposedly.

Program information shows up for me on 56-2 and shown as KDMIDT2... 23-1 shows also but with no program information...so I've just blocked out 23-1 and use 56-2.

Is 56-2 in HD or stretched SD? I thought I remembered it looked less than HD quality the last time I checked...

Is 56-2 in HD or stretched SD? I thought I remembered it looked less than HD quality the last time I checked...

It's their 1080I feed. Or at least, that's what my receiver seems to believe. Most of their programming is upconverted 480...so it can be tough to tell.

Here's the response I got from KCWI's engineer today. He of course blames DirecTV for not having the schedule. I have an e-mail I'm going to have to dig up from DirecTV where they said the opposite...

_____________________________________________
Morning,

I'll address your issues starting at the bottom.

1) Your season pass with directTV and HD Tivo. This is an issue with DirectTV, not us. Numerous people who have gotten the HD Tivo system, or upgraded their system have the same issue. The problem is in how DirectTV programs the unit and what channels they allow you to receive. You have to contact DirectTV to get that issue resolved.

2) I'm not quite sure on what you mean by 'pulsed out' though.. The program guide is sent out with our signal per FCC regulations and not sent out as a separate signal. Not seeing it on your system is a function of DirectTV again. Believe it or not, the program guides are done externally to all the television stations and then fed to us for inclusion on our signal. If you're not getting it on DirectTV, then they are not setup to receive it, or they are processing it wrong. While we feed our programming guide on our digital signal, it is not included in the analog signal as the transport mechanism isn't available in an analog broadcast, ergo it has to be inserted by DirectTV.

3) 5.1 Stereo vs. Pro Logic. Yes, we only broadcast in stereo so you will not get 5.1 dolby on our broadcasts. Conversion to dolby 5.1 is a significant expense to the station that the corporation wasn't able to make at this time. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Mike
___________________________
Mike Potratz, Chief Engineer
KCWI-TV/KDMI-DT
Ankeny, Iowa 50021
mpotratz@kcwi23.com
Phone : 515-289-4330
Cell : 515-490-5954
Fax : 515-965-9600

______________________________________________________

Here's the response I got from KCWI's engineer today. He of course blames DirecTV for not having the schedule. I have an e-mail I'm going to have to dig up from DirecTV where they said the opposite...

Word to the wise: Believe the KCWI engineer. Looks to me like what he's telling you is pretty accurate. I can almost promise you that your e-mail from DirecTV is not from anyone who has even seen KCWI's signal, or who knows squat about where PSIP and program guide data comes from. It's a customer service agent working with a database of pre-written answers for frequently-asked-questions. If the viewer complaint is only about one local station in some city they've never heard of called "Daymoyn" in Iowa, or Ohio, or one of those states next to Texas, and no boiler-plate solution to the problem jumps out at them from their computer screen, they just say, "It must be a problem with the station's signal." And they leave it at that. They never even look at the problem with their own eyes. There's a good chance that KDMI-DT, being a relatively new DTV station, is simply not correctly entered in their program guide database.

Is it just me, or is KDSM-DT now properly upconverting (4:3 letterboxed in 16:9) their SD on 17.1?

It's not just you... and might I say, "FINALLY". :)

Congrats to KCCI I noticed you got an HD weather Alert. no more killing the HD signal for severe weather. You guys rock.

Here's an item of interest I originally posted in the Cedar Rapids thread:

Gov. Chet Culver has signed Senate File 554 (http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Cool-ICE/default.asp?Category=BillInfo&Service=Billbook&ga=82&hbill=SF554), which allows video providers to seek a statewide franchise to offer cable television.

Up to now, cable companies have had to negotiate a franchise for each city in which they operate, but large telecommunications companies are hoping to avoid dealing with hundreds of cities as they seek to compete with incumbent cablecos such as Mediacom.

An FCC report (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-179A1.pdf) released in December found that cable rates have grown 93 percent since the mid-1990s. The report also found that satellite services don't compete effectively enough with cable to hold down rates, but a wireline competitor can.

Critics have warned that the bill doesn't give cities the say they currently enjoy on issues such as access channels. They've also warned that the bill specifically bans communities from enforcing mandatory build-out provisions. Some fear that provision would allow providers to bypass some areas in favor of more affluent neighborhoods whose residents would be more likely to buy premium services.

But the bill also specifically prohibits providers from denying access to potential customer groups because of income.

The bill also reinstates the full five-percent franchise tax on video services. The tax is allowed under federal law, but state courts have ruled that cities can't charge any more than is needed to regulate the service.

Looks like they're playing around with aspect ratios and what not again. I feel like I'm watching KCWI from a few months ago with the picture badly centered...and a 1/2 inch boarder on the left and 1" inch boarder on the right...and the picture further cropped then it had been.
Oh well...guess I won't be calling any 800 numbers given, or even seeing the scroll on the ever popular "Fox News at Nine". (Not that I do more than glance at it in passing! *LOL*) :p

i currently get my hd locals via antenna (from west des moines). i have basic cable from mediacom for my other channels (not digital). i haven't wanted to change over to dishnetwork or directtv due to fox sports midwest (cardinals baseball). my picture is not good though on all of the analog channels. i've heard that changing to digitial medicom will not improve this. is this true? is there anything one can do to improve the picture quality (booster/etc)? is there any reason to contact mediacom? thanks for any help.

i currently get my hd locals via antenna (from west des moines). i have basic cable from mediacom for my other channels (not digital). i haven't wanted to change over to dishnetwork or directtv due to fox sports midwest (cardinals baseball). my picture is not good though on all of the analog channels. i've heard that changing to digitial medicom will not improve this. is this true? is there anything one can do to improve the picture quality (booster/etc)? is there any reason to contact mediacom? thanks for any help.Well, changing to digital Mediacom won't make the analog channels digital. However, digital tends to be more sensitive to bad cable wiring than analog. (An analog signal degrades as the quality goes down, with more snow, ghosting, and other patterns; a digital signal simply disappears.) So in order to get digital cable, the cable crew may need to upgrade some of your wiring, depending on your installation. If that's the case, you may very well see an improvement in your analog channels if you upgrade to digital cable, depending on your setup.

If you're not upgrading, make sure every cable connection is as tight as possible to keep interference and broadcast signals from leaking into the cable. If that doesn't work you may need to call Mediacom. I doubt a booster would help; it would boost everything, including the signals you don't want.

As far as the sat services, you may want to check with them to see if they have Fox Sports Midwest.

So in order to get digital cable, the cable crew may need to upgrade some of your wiring, depending on your installation. If that's the case, you may very well see an improvement in your analog channels if you upgrade to digital cable, depending on your setup.A couple years ago, Mediacom came out to upgrade me to "digital" cable and at the time, I thought by upgrading, all channels were digital. I was wrong! Channels 2-78 were still analog (and still are today, obviously). They ran new cable and it was still very grainy on my 60" Sony HDTV, even with there HD receiver. So I had him yank it out right away and I went with Dish. Huge difference between sat and cable on the analog channels. Sat converts the channels to digital. Mediacom still won't say when they are going to convert all channels to digital.

Converting all channels to digital would mean people would all need a set top box or cable card if they happen to have a digital cable ready set. I for one am very glad they still have a large amount of the channels in analog. Of course opinions vary. I prefer the convenience of not needing a box from mediacom to get my channels. As for grainy and noisy signals; one could make sure they have 75ohm terminators on all their unused cable outlets, and also replace any splitters and amps they may have. I often find the signal improves when you remove an amp (when it wasn't needed), and also good splitters versus bad splitters can make a world of difference.

Early today i rescaned my OTA digitaL and 2 CHANNEL 18s were there only to disappear later and i didn't catch the name of the channel. Can any one tell me which one it is .
And by the way Mediacom claims they have put family cable on digital now , I know channel 11 looks terrible on my analog and mutch better (not great) on digital
Joe

As far as the sat services, you may want to check with them to see if they have Fox Sports Midwest.

I have D*. Yes, the RSN here for them is Comcast Chicago. However, if you get their "Sports Pack" ($12/mo) you will also be able to watch Fox Sports North and Fox Sports Midwest without fear of blackouts. You'll also find out that because of that, DirecTV will black out ESPN often when any three of these RSN's (FSNMW, FSNN, CSN Chi) have the same game on as ESPN does.

Anyone have further word yet on when D* is coming out with the HD locals for Des Moines? Just curious I haven't heard a word lately.

new here, and this is my first post, but I wanted to clarify that mediacom now has all their channels being broadcast (simulcasted) digitally. If you have a digital box, whether it be digital, hd, hd-dvr (120 or 160 gig[the one without the rca jacks on the front], or just dvr, this box will obtain all the channels digitally.
Yes all other, non box tv's can receive the normal cable channels - and that signal is analog - but this is not the same signal the boxes are receiving.

However, this does not mean the channel is upconverted to any specific video resolution, but it is still digital. For example, I just moved into a new location where the previous owner had basic cable (2-23), hence a filter was on at the hub. I brought my hddvr box from the old house over and plugged it right in. To my surprise, All my previous channels came in, including above 23, even tho all the other analog tvs in the house got snow.

Since we switched account holders, and just signed up as a new customer (to get the killer promos) we ended up getting a new hddvr 160gb boxes. So far, haven't noticed much of a difference, but the extra space is quite nice.

msgc95 - over at DBS talk the latest was they are holding off until the new sat is up in the air. sounded like we are looking in the august timeframe at this point. If I read anything different I will post

I recently got an HR20 to replace my old D* HD box. What should I be getting from the 56 subchannels? With another OTA receiver, I am getting a picture on 23-1, 34-1, and 56-1. The HR20 just lists 56-1 and 56-2 (which has the guide for 23-1). 56-1 is tuning in, but nothing on 56-2 (searching for signal). I was only getting a signal strength of 35% to 40% on 56, so I just re-adjusted my antenna, and am now getting around 60% signal strength on 56, but still get the "searching for signal" message when I go to 56-2.

I have D*. Yes, the RSN here for them is Comcast Chicago. However, if you get their "Sports Pack" ($12/mo) you will also be able to watch Fox Sports North and Fox Sports Midwest without fear of blackouts. You'll also find out that because of that, DirecTV will black out ESPN often when any three of these RSN's (FSNMW, FSNN, CSN Chi) have the same game on as ESPN does.

does "D*" mean dishnetwork or directv?

D* is DirecTV. E* is DishNetwork which is gathered from EchoStar Satellite.

Cyclone
On the HR20 the channels are not mapped correctly. D* has an issue with this but have note seen any movement on this. So the searching for signal on 56-2 is normal. The 56-1 is actually 34-1 I believe and not the HD version of channel 23.

Cyclone
On the HR20 the channels are not mapped correctly. D* has an issue with this but have note seen any movement on this. So the searching for signal on 56-2 is normal. The 56-1 is actually 34-1 I believe and not the HD version of channel 23.

So can the HR20 not tune in KCWI-DT, then?

So can the HR20 not tune in KCWI-DT, then?
you are correct it does not tune in the HD version of 23.

Sucks for those of us who like Smallville.

Basically I just split the Antenna feed to both the TV and the DVR. So at least I get the HD version.
Of course this does not help if you want to record the HD feed for 23.

We can hope in on of the future updates they allow scanning for HD channel or they fix the mapping so it is accurate.

I am having a problem with audio from channel 13-1. I am currently receiving the signal via OTA and usually in the high 80's for signal strength. My problem is that when I run the audio through my receiver (tried on two different receivers and same problem) via a digital coxial cable it breaks up. It goes on fine for a while and then drops out and will come back here and there. If I listen through the TV speakers ther is not a problem with the audio. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem and if so how to fix it.

I am having a problem with audio from channel 13-1. I am currently receiving the signal via OTA and usually in the high 80's for signal strength. My problem is that when I run the audio through my receiver (tried on two different receivers and same problem) via a digital coxial cable it breaks up. It goes on fine for a while and then drops out and will come back here and there. If I listen through the TV speakers ther is not a problem with the audio. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem and if so how to fix it.

We need a LOT more info to help you.

How is your system set up, that is, what components and signal routing are you using?

What is the source for your OTA-HD signal that is breaking up when connected to your home theater amp? (if that's what you are doing).

What HT amp are you using?

When you say listen via your TV speakers, do you mean using the TV as your tuner and listening on to its audio only?

Whatever your source box (sat/cable?), reboot or reset it. It might be nothing more than your source box causing the problem and that can often be solved by resetting/rebooting the source box.

You can also try turning your HT amp off for 10 or 15 seconds and then turning it back on.

More info, please.

We need a LOT more info to help you.

How is your system set up, that is, what components and signal routing are you using?

What is the source for your OTA-HD signal that is breaking up when connected to your home theater amp? (if that's what you are doing).

What HT amp are you using?

When you say listen via your TV speakers, do you mean using the TV as your tuner and listening on to its audio only?

Whatever your source box (sat/cable?), reboot or reset it. It might be nothing more than your source box causing the problem and that can often be solved by resetting/rebooting the source box.

You can also try turning your HT amp off for 10 or 15 seconds and then turning it back on.

More info, please.

The system is set up that I am getting the HD signal via an antenna in my attic that is fed directly to my TV via standard coxial. Then the TV has a digital coxial cable out that is run directly into the receiver. All the other HD channels are fine and there is no break up of audio. WHO-HD is the only channel this is happening on.

I am using a Pioneer VSX-917 receiver. The audio is fine when I just use the built-in TV speakers, there is no break up of the audio. It is only breaking up when I try and use the receiver for surrond sound. I am not using a cable or sat box to get my HD, it is directly through an antenna and the built-in tuner in the TV. I have tried turning the receiver off and on and that does not work either.

Two weeks ago i believe? The des moines area was having bad thunderstorms and KCCI had their normal programming in HD along with the "severe weather info" at the bottom, and they didn't downgrade the signal at all. Really appreciated that, as WOI does not, or last i knew Did not do that. (My recorded episodes of LOST this past season looked like crap) Is this new or am i on crack? .. Have they been doing this for a while? If so, I never noticed.

It's sort of new... There hasn't really been a whole lot of severe weather this season, but I think the right pieces got installed a few months ago.

It's sort of new... There hasn't really been a whole lot of severe weather this season, but I think the right pieces got installed a few months ago.

Yes, it was nice to see the alert on the HD side in HD. Looked a bit funny in how it was placed and the scroll didn't go all the way across the screen... but still a lot better than having to watch SD on there.

Which reminds me...I seem to recall either WHO or KCCI one other time during severe weather putting text on the bottom of the screen saying there was a severe weather alert and to tune to the Analog station for the information. Didn't think that was all that bad an idea either.

Anyone know how the weather warnings and station watermarks are being added into the MPEG2 stream? Are the streams being decoded, getting the stuff added, and re-encoded? It seems like that re-encoding hardware would have to be pretty massive to be done real-time. Or is there some way of overlaying video without all that?

Krunchie, KCCI was the one you probably saw with the lower third graphic. That was mainly being used before the weather graphics on HD issue got sorted out. You probably won't see it for severe weather, but maybe come winter weather school closings time, you may see it again.

tadrow, every station has to re-encode the stream since it's usually delivered at a higher bandwidth than which it is sent out. Also, the station adds in PSIP data as well. So, no, there is no way of overlaying watermarks or graphics without the re-encoding. But since that process is always going on, it doesn't really require any extra processing when you see them.

And... in an effort to put 3 things into one post. Did anyone happen to catch the HS baseball games from IPTV Saturday night? It was definitely being produced in 16:9, but I wouldn't call it HD. Most everything was quite soft.

Ax3d... in an effort to put 3 things into one post. Did anyone happen to catch the HS baseball games from IPTV Saturday night? It was definitely being produced in 16:9, but I wouldn't call it HD. Most everything was quite soft.

Yes, I caught that as well. Kind of daring if you ask me. To have it not only in widescreen...but to also broadcast it letterboxed on Analog 11. Now had the picture only been crisper. But at least it's a start as far as a live local HD broadcast.

ESPN tried doing that with college football a year ago or so and got nothing but negative response from people watching on 4x3 ratio screens... I have to wonder what kind of response that IPTV received from their viewers?