Des Moines, IA - HDTV [Text View] - Page 12

mrphilby

08-06-07, 09:05 AM

I had my DirecTV HD receiver installed today with my new dish. I turned the HD access package on and I'm receiving the HD channels like Discovery, TNT, etc... however my locals like 5-1 (ABC), 13-1 (NBC) etc are not coming in. It just shows a black screen. I called technical support and they told me that Des Moines, IA (Polk county) does not have an HD channels. Is this true? Do I have to get an off air antennae in order to get my local channels in HD?

Depending on what STB you got from DirecTV - it may have an OTA tuner (or two) built into it, so that you are still able to DVR things OTA...which is a nice feature if you ask me. I'm not sure if you got DVR, but I am (today!) getting the HR20, which is the HD DVR box.

I'm not sure about the other HD STBs - but they too may have built in OTA, or your TV may also.

If you can receive the channels OTA its better PQ than satellite/cable anyway, although the PQ of satellite/cable is getting good enough that some people probably can't tell the difference.

mrphilby

08-07-07, 09:45 AM

This is a question for all you DirecTV users.

I got my HR20 last night - everything is working fine - and the installer hooked the remote antenna (for RF operation) up to the OTA tuner antenna which he said would get me through initial setup, which it did - picked up 5, 8, 11, 13, 17, 23 and all subs.

Now since it was just that little antenna I didn't have much signal strength (@50%) on any of the channels, but I knew this was going to be the case, and couldn't believe that little antenna would get any signal at all! So I went and got a cheapo $13 RCA bunny ears (uhf/vhf) last night - and now I have great reception!

So onto my questions - when the installer was setting up my locals found during the scan - he didn't "add" 56 - saying that even though it showed up I wouldn't be able to get it (is this the issue with DirecTV not registering this channel, so even if I can receive it OTA on my TV tuner, the HR20 won't recognize it?) - not too big of deal cause I've never watched that channel so i'm sure i'll survive if it doesn't work.

2nd question - for some reason I cannot pick up 23-1. 23 comes in fine - but it just gives me the searching for signal error when i tune to 23-1. Again probably not that big of a deal since I rarely watch the channel - but just wondering if it has a weak(er) signal or if there's another issue I'm unaware of.

we'll see today after work if the OTA tuner records my girlfriends soaps correctly and with a high quality signal - if not she's gonna try to convince me to switch back to mediacom for sure (she is already mad cause the channels are not in the same place they were before...)

dline

08-07-07, 03:04 PM

Hate to interrupt, but it's now official.

The FCC released its "final" list of channel designations (in .pdf) (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-138A2.pdf) which all U.S. digital TV stations will have after 2-17-09.

(I say "final" in quotes because there's still a comment period.)

For the Des Moines-Ames market there are no real changes from what we already know:

- WOI will move back to channel 5 at 3.91 kW ERP.
- KCCI will move back to channel 8 at 29.4 kW.
- KDIN will return to channel 11 at 19.8 kW.
- WHO will return to channel 13 at 36.1 kW.
- KDSM will stay on channel 16 at 500 kW.
- KCWI will flash-cut 23 to a 246 kW digital signal. There is no listing for sister station KDMI-DT 56.
- An Ames religious station on 34 will need to flash-cut to a 50 kW DT signal.
- KPXR, listed under Newton, will flash-cut to a 116 kW digital signal on channel 39.

Krunchie

08-07-07, 11:10 PM

So onto my questions - when the installer was setting up my locals found during the scan - he didn't "add" 56 - saying that even though it showed up I wouldn't be able to get it (is this the issue with DirecTV not registering this channel, so even if I can receive it OTA on my TV tuner, the HR20 won't recognize it?) - not too big of deal cause I've never watched that channel so i'm sure i'll survive if it doesn't work.

2nd question - for some reason I cannot pick up 23-1. 23 comes in fine - but it just gives me the searching for signal error when i tune to 23-1. Again probably not that big of a deal since I rarely watch the channel - but just wondering if it has a weak(er) signal or if there's another issue I'm unaware of.

Well, this might kill two birds with one stone... 23-1 and 56-1 (and for that matter 34-1) broadcast off the same tower. So depending on where you're located at... may explain why you can't pick them up. I'm in Story City and can pick everything up great except for 23-1/34-1/56-1. They come in the weakest for me. Thankfully my H20 seems to have a way to boost the antenna's strength. I have the lead split off to also feed into my television's tuner and it will not pick up 23-1/34-1/56-1 at all. Period. Nada. End of story. LOL.

Any chance they may eventually boost their signal strength to carry further? Otherwise I'll probably just have to wait until DirecTV carries HD locals.

denyart

08-07-07, 11:18 PM

Actually, I believe they have plenty of signal (1MW). It seems to be that their signal doesn't travel north in the Ames/Story City direction very well. I am not sure why, and neither is (are) their engineer(s). As for those channels, they are all actually one signal right now. They all broadcast on UHF channel 56. The program identifier in the signal lets your tuner split out the parts of the digital data for each channel. Perhaps when KCWI flash cuts its signal back to UHF channel 23 their signal will actually get better here in Ames. Unfortunately that can't happen until the analog turn-off in 2009.

clones83

08-08-07, 08:20 AM

I hate to bring up a well-discussed topic, but I'm having an antenna issue.

I have an Direct TV HR10-250 which has a direct coax line to a Radio Shack 60-mile radius rooftop antenna which I is in the attic. My house is at the Legacy golf course in Norwalk and sits up fairly high, so I really don't have any geographic obstructions. There were no problems until a few months ago when I started losing the digitals for KCCI. I get mid 70's to 90's on all the other digital stations and no cut-outs but only 20's most of the time on KCCI. Sometimes it will get in the 50's or 60's & I'll get a picture for a short time, but not for long. I've tried to re-position the antenna (even though I know other digital signals are coming from the same place in Alleman and I'm getting them fine) and I've have the receiver re-scan just to see if that would help. Still not getting KCCI with enough strength to lock in a consistent signal.

Any ideas?

mrphilby

08-08-07, 11:26 AM

mrphilby

08-09-07, 09:32 AM

Well I rescanned and now I have no trouble picking up 23-1 and 56-1 - not sure what was going on before - but they're on my DirecTV guide now and come in around 90% signal strength.

dline

08-09-07, 01:19 PM

Well, this might kill two birds with one stone... 23-1 and 56-1 (and for that matter 34-1) broadcast off the same tower. So depending on where you're located at... may explain why you can't pick them up. I'm in Story City and can pick everything up great except for 23-1/34-1/56-1. They come in the weakest for me. Thankfully my H20 seems to have a way to boost the antenna's strength. I have the lead split off to also feed into my television's tuner and it will not pick up 23-1/34-1/56-1 at all. Period. Nada. End of story. LOL.

Any chance they may eventually boost their signal strength to carry further? Otherwise I'll probably just have to wait until DirecTV carries HD locals.Here's the situation as I think I know it:

Actually, there are a number of stations who share that tower with 23-1/34-1/56-1, including several it appears you're all getting. The odd thing about those three stations is that they share the same signal on DT channel 56.

(For those of you new to the thread: KCWI 23 does not have a paired digital channel since it came on the air too late to get one. The only way Pappas could get CW HD on the air before analog shutdown was to buy the construction permit for KDMI channel 56, build it as a "digital-only" station, and have KDMI host KCWI as a subchannel.)

So why aren't you getting it?

Well, FCC records indicate that the KDMI 56 signal is already licensed for 1 million watts, the highest allowed for a digital station. In fact it's nearly twice as powerful as WHO-DT.

But looking closer, I found that its transmitter is hovering at 1963 ft. above average terrain. Compared with the other stations on the tower, it's one of the lower ones -- 67 feet lower than WHO-DT's transmitter, 80 feet lower than WOI-DT, and 13 feet lower than KDIN-DT.

On the bright side, KCWI analog is at 2043 ft. So if the plan is to flash-cut 23 to digital after 2-17-09, it'll be pretty much at the top of the tower.

figure8

08-09-07, 10:07 PM

Krunchie

08-10-07, 09:39 PM

My D* installer showed up this afternoon to put in my 5-LNB dish. Although I'm not so sure about this guy they sent over. He seemed to be rather new to the job... certainly didn't have a lot of equipment in the truck you would think he would... and well... Didn't know much about what services were actually offered. He even was telling me once I got the dish installed I should call DirecTV and have my HD locals turned on. Last I knew it would be quite a while yet before those would be available here anyway.

So, two questions here.

1) When is the big HD programming launch supposed to be? All I ever hear is "this fall"... and have yet to be able to find a solid date. Not to mention the only new channel I'm aware that DirecTV is close to launching in HD is MHD (Music HD - Kind of a music mix of MTV, VH1, and CMT. I did like what I saw of this channel from the free previews.)

2) Does anyone else that has the 5LNB dish get a message in setup that it is unable to pick up one of the satellites? The guy told me that one would fail... I just want to be sure he's correct about this. Again, I state the guy that did the install didn't seem to know a lot about what he was doing yet. He didn't even take the time to go through the setup on my receiver and set it up for the new dish...had to do that myself. And he also said he wanted to stop by on occasion and see how the programming is...he said this is the first time he's installed one of these (Monster - It's nearly 1 1/2 times the size of the 3LNB dish I had and seems to weigh in around 70 pounds or so).

The main thing I've taken out of this... Seems to me that DirecTV doesn't have very high, well... "standards" for who they take on as local service techs/installers. Well, that and I need to get some concrete to shore up my dish's pole mount because of the larger size and increased weight of the new dish. :-)

mrphilby

08-13-07, 08:29 AM

Here's a thread discussing the new channels - http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87235

I've heard a couple different dates live dates for the new channels, but the one I hear discussed the most is Sep 9th. However D* is just starting their testing which takes about 3 weeks (if nothing goes wrong) - so it may be after that date, but presumably still in mid sept.

The satellite that failed is the one that's going to be offering all the new HD channels, and since they're just starting the testing, yes it should fail.

My D* installer was very knowledgable, and even told me I could share the dish that my neighbor already had installed so that I didn't have put up a new one. He put in a multi switch and tada, my neighbor and I share a dish but have separate bills (so I'm not stealing or anything...) This was much appreciated since we live in a condo and the fewer dishes hanging off the side of the building the better!

Neil Griffin

08-14-07, 03:18 PM

Well, FCC records indicate that the KDMI 56 signal is already licensed for 1 million watts, the highest allowed for a digital station. In fact it's nearly twice as powerful as WHO-DT.

But looking closer, I found that its transmitter is hovering at 1963 ft. above average terrain. Compared with the other stations on the tower, it's one of the lower ones -- 67 feet lower than WHO-DT's transmitter, 80 feet lower than WOI-DT, and 13 feet lower than KDIN-DT.

On the bright side, KCWI analog is at 2043 ft. So if the plan is to flash-cut 23 to digital after 2-17-09, it'll be pretty much at the top of the tower.

At those heights, the height and power variations shouldn't make a difference in Norwalk or Indianaola. The issue most likely is the fact that it is channel 56. Most UHF antennas are optimized for the middle parts of the band, and performance falls off near the top. Also, line losses on your lead in increase with the frequency. You may want to check your antenna, lead-in, and connections, since problems affect the higher channels first. Also, can you get WOI-DT 59?. If you get it and not KDMI, multipath may be the problem.

hhawk

08-19-07, 11:25 AM

We recently updated to two new Directv receivers. One of the receivers has problems with channel 8-1. It comes in fine but cuts out for a split second every couple of minutes. It does not have this problem with channels 5, 13 or 17. I cannot figure out why one receiver would have a problem with one channel while the other receiver on that channel, and the other channels on that particular receiver work fine. I have both receivers diplexed. I had to take an antenna amp out of the loop after it was apparently damaged by lightning. (We came back from vacation and our phone line was severed from the house. We also had to have internal phone line repair done. I assume the lightning also jumped onto the coaxial from my attic antenna. The OTA channels were kaput when we first returned and it took me awhile to figure out something happened to the amp.)
My signal strength is in the 80s for 5,8 and 13 and in the 70s for 17. We live in WDM and have an antenna in the attic. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!
************************************************************ ******************************************
I think the problem is solved. My diplexers in the basement were touching each other. I moved them apart and now everything seems to be working....for now anyway.

Krunchie

08-19-07, 10:12 PM

Anyone else happen to be watching the broadcast of the State Fair talent search on 11-1 tonight? Again it looks at though IPTV tried to do a local event in HD but the PQ was very questionable at least to me. The picture was overexposed and very grainy...with quite a bit of macroblocking now and then. Or at least, this is what I saw from my point of view.
Other comments?

Hammymrm

08-24-07, 12:27 PM

Any chance of getting HD channels in Oskaloosa, it shows 66 miles away on antenna.org. The mount would be outside about 5' above the roof (single story). My house is in the country, on a hill, no trees. I have no problem using one of the large antennas. I also have access to spools of RG-11, which I would use for the cable run. I don't want to spend a bunch of $$$, if I have no chance of getting the channels

denyart

08-24-07, 12:46 PM

One of the bigger channel master like the CM4228 would probably pull in enough signal with an amp (possibly) added to the equation, but once the stations switch back to other channels like 5, 8, 13, etc. you would need a VHF antenna as well. I think you should be able to get a signal since there are people almost as far away pulling in enough signal with lesser antennas.

Pellakin

08-25-07, 01:04 AM

Hey all,

I'm a current MediaCom customer (cable TV and internet) in West Des Moines with the HDTV package for the bigscreen in the living room. I share an apartment with one roommate and we each have our own TV's in our rooms, taking the total to 3 TV's.

We're considering the move to DirecTV - largely due to the NFL Sunday Ticket/SuperFan packages. I just wanted to bounce a few things off the knowledgeable folks here before delving too far into the process.

We both have cell phones only - no land line in the house at all.

1) Internet -

It looks like MediaCom offers an "Internet Only" package for $60.95/month, with the first 6 months at $29.95/month. I'm a little confused because the "fine print" goes on to state: "The monthly rate for non-Mediacom video households is $52.95" - so - not sure about the discrepancy.

Anyway - I assume that this cheap initial price is likely just for new customers? So if I were to get DirecTV and cancel just cable video service and keep the internet, I'd be paying the full monthly rate right away? Can I just cancel and have my roommate sign up as a new customer if that's the case?

Are there any other feasible options without paying for a land line to get DSL? I assume not, but if that's the only choice, it may still be cheaper to go that route vs. 60/mo. for just internet.

Any other thoughts?

2) Receivers -

I configured my package on the D* site up to the "payment" step, and included the Premier package, with Sunday Ticket/SuperFan and HD Access package. I then selected to lease two regular boxes (for each bedroom TV) and one HD DVR for the main room HDTV.

Will I automatically get the best receiver and dish for the package(s) I order? It looks like some of the packages I selected specify "3- or 5-LNB Multi-Satellite dish" - and "a D10 interactive receiver" for "full Game Mix functionality" in the SuperFan package (do you need a land-line if it's interactive for data to go upstream?).

Do I have to specify in my order that I want a certain brand/type of receiver and/or dish, or will they figure that out on their own since I'm ordering the packages that require certain things? Is the HD DVR definitely going to come with any functionality I need, or are there different versions I might get?

I assume with the 3-5 LNB dishes, that all three TV's could conceivably be watching separate channels/games at the same time? (I know the bedroom TV's wouldn't get HD functionality with just the standard receivers.)

I'm going to talk to my apartment management tomorrow to find out what process they have for approving external dish installation - and any fees. I have a full south-facing balcony.

3) OTA -

With the mess last winter with Sinclair, I ended up getting the free rabbit ears and get good HD OTA reception - I assume I can somehow use those with the system (even possibly on the HD DVR recordings from OTA?) and not have to pay the $49.00 for the optional "Off Air Antenna"?

Is there something I'm not considering here?

Overall, our bill will go up only about $5 initially from our current $140'ish (if we have the 29.95 initial internet), then up to the normal price of about $179 when all promotional offers have expired. We're ready for the cost increase if it means getting the packages that we can get off D* now and in the future (March Madness, etc.).

I just wonder if there's something I'm not thinking about or considering in the decision.

Any feedback or thoughts you have would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Pellakin

08-25-07, 01:51 AM

I did a little more digging and it looks like a DSL line can be had from Qwest for $30-35 a month, without a land line. That would be cheaper over time, but I'm concerned about the speed difference with cable.

I tried using the bundling options to set up a phone/internet/DTV bundle, but it doesn't look like the same promotions (Premier for cost of Sunday Ticket for first 4 months, full price after) with all the other bonuses are available when configuring through the Qwest site.

I also found a link through the D* site for DSL options, but you have to put a home number in, and WildBlue packages are the only ones that show up, even when I put in numbers that I'd be assigned from Qwest if I signed up for basic service.

Just a little frustrating.

mrphilby

08-27-07, 09:37 AM

pellakin - recently switched from mediacom to DTV myself.

still trying to figure out what to do about internet - wasn't aware they were gonna tack on another $10 from my current $45.95 when I dropped cable. However I'm in a 4plex condo, so I may have the internet transferred into their name and split it with the other units (which is kinda what's happening now).

receivers - you'll need to basic ones in your other rooms, and i would suggest either the H20 or HR20 (non-dvr or dvr) depending on your needs for a HD receiver. I believe you have to have either one of these to view the new HD channels that are going live soon (hopefully a week or so), because they will be Mpeg-4 encoded not mpeg-2 like the current channels.

OTA - yes you can use rabbit ears and not buy one from DTV - i bought a $12 set of rabbit ears from target and they work well enough to get/record OTA locals - although I have to adjust them sometimes for channel 5-1 and channel 23-1 to work (not that big of a deal as we typically watch cbs/nbc - but fall is coming which means fball and desperate housewives, so I'm gonna have to figure something out)

HDAntenna

09-01-07, 10:37 PM

clones83

09-05-07, 08:47 PM

I live in Cedar Rapids and usually post about things over there, but, happen to be at my folks in Des Moines and have noticed a big problem.

I mounted an external antenna to the roof today, aligned and tested using the HD tuner in their HDTV. All channels are 100% except KDSM which hovers around 80%. NO problems, no drops - perfect.

I then moved the antenna from the TV input to the Off-Air input on their DirecTV HR20-700 receiver. All channels come is as they did on the TV tuner except KCCI and KDSM. KCCI will bounce up and down constantly and not lock in. KDSM shows 0%.

Is there a known problem with those channels and the DirecTV HD20s?

Thanks!

HDA

I just got an HR20 and thought my problems with KCCI were solved--with my H10-250, I got all digital channels at 85 -100% except KCCI. It would sometimes be in the 80's & sometimes in the 20's. No rhyme or reason I could figure out. KCCI came in fine when I replaced my H10-250 with an HR20-700 for a day or so, then started showing the same problems. Right now I'm getting it most of the time, but reception strength will still sometimes drop to levels where I get no picture.

I haven't heard of any problems with the HR20's, so I'm still in the dark.

kc0bsn

09-06-07, 08:17 PM

HDAntenna

09-07-07, 10:44 AM

clones83 & HDA, the digital transmitter had been feeling a bit under the weather lately, but is now back to 100%. Since you're both so near to Alleman I'm not so sure the problems are related, but it may be. Let me know if you're still experiencing drop outs and I can pass along the word.

OK, BUT, that doesn't explain why it came in at 100% using the TV's built in HD tuner and didn't using the DirecTV HR20 tuner. DirecTV says it is a problem with how the signals are being broadcast (HIGHLY unlikely) and KCCI tells me it is a long-running problem with DirecTV's HD receivers. *sigh*

HDA

kc0bsn

09-07-07, 02:32 PM

Well, it may indeed be a problem with the receiver. I know that bouncing from 100 to unusable has typically been a problem with either multipath or too strong of a signal overloading a receiver. I don't have any idea what generation receiver the D* boxes are using as I've only used a Samsung STB, Toshiba built in receiver, and a Fusion USB receiver. The Fusion is a 4th gen chip, and from inside my south facing apartment in Urbandale, I only need a tiny telescopic antenna to receive all the local DT signals.

clones83

09-07-07, 02:59 PM

Thanks, kc0bsn,

I wonder if I might be using an antenna that's too strong & it's causing multipath (or other problems). My antenna in the attic is probably too much for the distance to the towers, but I wanted to make sure it worked if installed inside, not on top of the roof. My new HR20 receiver seems to be a little better in getting 8-1, so far, than the H10-250, so we'll see if the built-in tuner is able to handle the multipath issue better.

kc0bsn

09-08-07, 01:28 AM

Let me know how you make out clones83. I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that something could be weird between the transmitter or the receivers... I know some E* receivers had issues for a while, but if I recall correctly, when they lost the signal or the picture broke up, their signal strength didn't change. That's why a bouncing signal readout, to me anyway, points to a local reception issue.

Nunovyer Bidness

09-12-07, 01:05 AM

kc0bsn

09-12-07, 01:09 AM

I'm not sure for other stations, but I believe they don't grab KCCI off-air. As for the others, I'm not sure. Also, in regards to the KCCI-DT transmitter, it's ills were fixed just over a week ago. :)

nicholasmcgrew

09-12-07, 08:36 AM

Anyone else losing local HD channels over Mediacom lately? I don't have their digital package but can get their non-scrambled HD channels (13-1, 8-1, 115-4, 115-2, etc.). The last week or so, some of these have been cutting in and out, usually for just a few seconds but sometimes for several minutes. Sometimes it's only one of the channels, sometimes more than one go out at the same time. Tonight it's been particularly bad so I've been stuck watching the analog 8 and 13.

kc0bsn mentioned problems with the digital transmitter, so I'm guessing that's what is happening. (Assuming that Mediacom is grabbing these channels OTA and passing them on to me. Pardon my ignorance!)

We always watch Channel 13 in the morning. I usually have it on the HD (13.1). But this morning and yesterday morning, we've lost it at around 7:05 am. I haven't been watching the other HD's or even this one in the evening. But when I came home from work yesterday (~5:00) 13.1 was working.

My first thought was Mediacom was starting to encrypt the HD's, but since it came back, I don't think that is the case. Guess we'll just have to wait and see if it fixes. Since Mediacom is such a good local company, I'm sure they'd want to hear about this and fix it as soon as possible.:rolleyes:

thelogic

09-12-07, 11:26 AM

nicholasmcgrew

09-12-07, 11:40 AM

Have lurked on this board for some time, but just registered (first post). I've looked through this thread and others trying to find more information about OTA HD reception in Des Moines (Urbandale), and haven't specifically found what I'm looking for.

From what I gather, even to date, ABC-DT is still very low power and difficult for some to get OTA. Any suggestions on methods, antennas, need of an amplifier, etc?

Also, according to antennaweb.org, abc is broadcast on channel 5, abc-dt on 5.1. I realize this is a newb question, but, how do I get my tv to tune in 5.1 as opposed to 5?

Thanks

Welcome! This site is great. I've learned more than I ever needed to know about TV's and such here. But now I wouldn't buy any AV equipment without looking here first.

The two obvious things you need to get 5.1 is an HDTV and an antenna. Your TV has to have a ATSC tuner in it in to get HD signals. Well, if your TV doesn't, you have to buy a separate piece that does. If you're a cable guy, some TV's have a tuner that can pick up digitals off the cable. But that's another bag of worms . . .

I don't have a lot of OTA experience, but you just run a channel scan with the antenna. My Pioneer TV has two coax inputs, one dig/analog, and one analog. So of course your antenna needs to be in the digital one. It should just show up along with the other channels. My remote has a period " . " on the control so I could type 5 . 1 <enter> and it pops up.

Be careful though, once you go HD you find it hard to watch anything else. :cool:

Good luck,
--Nick

thelogic

09-12-07, 12:23 PM

Thanks for the welcome, Nick - its appreciated.

I just got a Samsung LN-T4042H last week, so can finally look forward to some HD content. It does have a built-in ATSC tuner. I have Mediacom cable (for the time being), but will probably dump it and just pay for the internet service when I can get the locals over-the-air in HD.

My TV has two coax inputs - one is labeled 'Air,' the other 'Cable.' I have a UHF/VHF antenna (unamplified) from when Mediacom had the dispute with Sinclair over Fox last year, but it only seems to pick up channel 8 in watchable condition.

I'd prefer an indoor antenna, if at all possible under $50. I've read (in this forum and elsewhere) good things about Terk's indoor antennas, but also about some basic Radioshack antennas/amplifiers, as well as generic philips ones from Wal-Mart and the like. I guess I'd like to make sure that my existing cheap-o antenna isn't going to do anything first, then take the plunge and buy additional equipment if necessary.

dline

09-12-07, 01:17 PM

From what I gather, even to date, ABC-DT is still very low power and difficult for some to get OTA. Any suggestions on methods, antennas, need of an amplifier, etc?

Also, according to antennaweb.org, abc is broadcast on channel 5, abc-dt on 5.1. I realize this is a newb question, but, how do I get my tv to tune in 5.1 as opposed to 5?

ThanksABC5/WOI-DT is actually broadcast on channel 59. Depending on your receiver, you may be able to punch in "59" and it will hopefully "map" it and remember it as 5-1. Otherwise you can try scanning for it.

WOI-DT is no longer the low-power station it once was, but the fact that it currently uses channel 59 is apparently making it hard for some folks to get.

But don't throw out that VHF antenna just yet -- by 2-17-09, channels 5, 8, 11 and 13 will all be transmitting digital on 5, 8, 11 and 13, respectively.

thelogic

09-12-07, 03:27 PM

Thanks dline - I'll try it at 59 after work. I've read that with digital signals, you either get it or you don't (unlike an analog signal that has static or fuzz causing you to continually try and adjust the antenna). Is this true? I mean, if I punch in channel 59, its either going to come in nice, crisp HD, or not at all?

thelogic

09-13-07, 09:49 AM

I went home and used the frequency assignment numbers from the antennaweb.org site (including 59 for WOI-DT) and....wow. I feel pretty stupid for sitting there trying to use the channel assignments as opposed to the frequencies.

The only channel that seems to drop out often is KPWB, but I can live with that. I've been checking titantv's HD listings to try and gauge when a particular station will be broadcasting in HD, however, it seems to be hit or miss. Is there a better solution for this?

Thanks again dline and Nick - I can see that this OTA HD thing is going to be a love/hate relationship ;)

kc0bsn

09-13-07, 12:28 PM

The best bet for finding HD programming is during primetime with either comedies or dramas. Many sports on the weekends are also HD, but not all.

thelogic

09-13-07, 05:51 PM

Is there any online resource (similar to titantv.com)?

kc0bsn

09-13-07, 06:04 PM

As far as guide listings go, there really are only two services that accept and redistribute that information. If you're looking for guide data that includes tags about what is in HD or not, either TitanTV or Couchville (http://www.couchville.com/) are your best bets. For sports guides, HD Sports Guide (http://www.hdsportsguide.com/) is a pretty awesome site, too.

thelogic

09-14-07, 12:37 PM

Wow - Couchville is great; exactly what I'm looking for. I had seen the HD Sports Guide out there before, and had to stop looking as it showed all the great football and baseball games in HD that I couldn't get, too ;)

Boulder_GP

09-19-07, 05:26 PM

I noticed earlier this afternoon - while attempting to see if the D* HD expansion was happening today or not - that Zap2It.com (http://tvlistings.zap2it.com) has channels 472 - 477 allocated for DSM local HD channels (see TVPredictions.com - http://www.tvpredictions.com/dexpansion091907.htm - 5th paragraph states that Zap2It and others received D* HD channel information in preparation for the launch that didn't happen today).

Could just be a glitch, or they might have been there for some time. I don't visit Zap2It.com normally, just that the TVPredictions.com article got me curious.

<fingers crossed>

letstub

09-20-07, 03:56 PM

I called D* and they said the new HD channels will be rolled out by the end of the month but they didn't have an exact date. He also advised me that no locals were scheduled to be rolled out with thw channels. The HD locals (472-477) could happen any time though.

TC Taylor

09-20-07, 07:38 PM

Hello. Me and my fiance moved to southwest Ames and just entered the digital realm this January, with a Toshiba 26HF66 Television, and a RCA ANT103 indoor antenna. We can pick up every station out of Des Moines just fine. (Including the notoriously weak WOI feed, both on 5.1 and 59.1)

However...

We can't get 23.1 or 56.1/56.2. KCWI's digital feed is totally lost to us. The TV has a 0-100 scale to measure signal, and 23.1 is a near-constant 58, which isn't enough. It gives a constant "Signal Strength is Too Low" message up on the otherwise black screen.

56.1 and 56.2 constantly vary between 0 and 40, often bouncing around the 10-30 range for fun.

Not knowing what else to do, we picked up a small amplifier; a Magnavox PM61107. It had no effect on the KCWI-affiliated channels, but boosted all other stations to perfect or almost-perfect signal strength.

What piece of the puzzle am I missing here?

jholtz

09-25-07, 01:41 PM

Sawasdeecf

09-26-07, 01:34 PM

OTA Des Moines HD channels with DirectV H20-600.

For the last month, I have experienced a problem with pixelation on the various DSM OTA locals (5-1, 8-1, 8-2, 11-1, 13-1, 17-1) every 2 minutes. My attenna is a Terk HDTVi Pro run through the DTV H20-600. DTV, states that it isn't their problem since it is OTA, however it all started when the H20-600 received the x2024 firmware update.

So, I wonder has anyone else in the DSM area experience a similar problem. All my channels are pulling in signal strengths in the 94 - 100 range.

Sawasdeecf

09-27-07, 02:07 PM

My H20-600 did seem to see a small amount of extra pixelation initially after the update, but I ended up writing that off to conditions, as it went away (maybe after a box reset, which I did to solve some other quirks that came with the update).
I did reset, and actually downloaded/applied the X2038 firmware successfully. However that didn't take care of the pixelization. DirectV then came out and replaced the H02-600 with another one. This one didn't have a problem, until the x2024 update was download on it. After that I once again tried resets, unpluggng, etc to cure the problem of pixelization on Local OTA HD.

ankenyclone

09-30-07, 05:58 PM

smoove

09-30-07, 11:34 PM

I certainly don't expect them to add any channels anytime soon. They seem too cheap to do so unless their hand was forced somehow.

Looks like I'll be heading out to catch the Cubs playoff games at a bar that gets DirecTV and TBS HD.

jrolson16

10-03-07, 09:05 AM

JimThePilot

10-03-07, 09:12 AM

As of last weekend (day/time not sure) I have NOT been able to get WOI 5.1 on two different recievers. The recievers do use the same antena. The signal strength is really good on all the others and I am completely OTA. I have never recieved the program info for 5.1 and wonder if it was due to a weak signal, even though the broadcast was viewable.

Jim

SpurgeN8R

10-03-07, 10:00 AM

I have been missing WOI-DT since Monday sometime as well. There must be trouble at the station. Is it possible that they transitioned to their VHF station already?

n691665x

10-03-07, 10:07 AM

I also cannot pick up WOI-DT over the air. The following is on their web site:

"ABC5's digital signal is experiencing problems. Viewers watching over the air through an antenna will be unable to see our programming. Crews are assessing the situation. Viewers still are able to see our digital signal through Mediacom, as well as our analog signal though the air, cable and satellite. The outage only affects the digital over the air signal."

SpurgeN8R

10-03-07, 10:22 AM

Good find. Hopefully they'll be back online this week.

kanderna

10-03-07, 11:51 AM

I have directv-hd. the brand new hd-dvr. I have been getting all local channels perfectly until Monday 10/1. I can no longer get channel 5-1. Is anyone else having this issue? Wife and I watched desperate housewives in hd sunday night and now it wont work.

Yep. Same boat. I was surprised nobody had posted here yet, so I assumed it was just me. Spent way too much time tweaking last night! :mad: But even so, I'm glad it's not my setup.

kanderna

10-03-07, 11:54 AM

And here is our answer...

Digital Transmission Problems
ABC5's digital signal is experiencing problems. Viewers watching over the air through an antenna will be unable to see our programming. Crews are assessing the situation. Viewers still are able to see our digital signal through Mediacom, as well as our analog signal though the air, cable and satellite. The outage only affects the digital over the air signal.

http://www.woi-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7153854

EDIT... Guess I should have opened my eyes and read the rest of the posts above

clones83

10-03-07, 01:31 PM

hasan

10-03-07, 02:09 PM

Glad to see this--I was ready to climb into my attic to try to adjust the antenna. I guess I'll have to DVR analog 5 until 5-1 comes back up.

Glad someone finally posted the problem...I knew it was WOI's problem, 3 different TV's 4 different tuners, 3 different antennas don't all go bad at once.:)

I've been checking it since Sunday sometime...maybe in the evening when I noticed it was gone.

This is a pretty lengthy outage, it's a pity WOI is not more forthcoming (3 days and they "are looking into it"). I recall how long we had to wait for a decent signal. I recall how happy I was when ABC lost Monday Night Football. Now I'm reminded why. WOI has been bush league since ISU sold it.

I really missed Boston Legal in HD....I forgot how rotten an SD signal looks, it's been that long since I've watched anything in SD. (except for news MSNBC/CNN etc).

BTW, CNN in HD via D* looks extremely crisp. Not a lot of HD content, but what is there is gorgeous.

tooloud10

10-03-07, 05:11 PM

Yep. Same boat. I was surprised nobody had posted here yet, so I assumed it was just me. Spent way too much time tweaking last night! :mad: But even so, I'm glad it's not my setup.

Oh geez, I feel like an idiot for not checking here...I spent several hours last night moving and tweaking antennas to get 5-1. Obviously I had no luck with that.

I thought for sure the problem was on my end because my two HR10-250s got swapped for two HR20s on Monday. I was driving myself nuts trying to figure out why the other HD channels were coming in better than before but 5-1 was no longer coming in at all...

kanderna

10-03-07, 05:51 PM

Oh geez, I feel like an idiot for not checking here...I spent several hours last night moving and tweaking antennas to get 5-1. Obviously I had no luck with that.

I thought for sure the problem was on my end because my two HR10-250s got swapped for two HR20s on Monday. I was driving myself nuts trying to figure out why the other HD channels were coming in better than before but 5-1 was no longer coming in at all...

Don't be too hard on yourself. Even though the problem has been around since Monday (possibly Sunday), it wasn't posted here until today. :)

slyk

10-03-07, 09:35 PM

Hey all,

Finally got an HDTV and plugged in to get OTA digital transmissions.

I have a problem getting 13.1 (WHO-DT) from Huxley. The picture comes in GREAT, perfect even, with a signal strength of 80-90%. The problem is the audio. It is completely choppy -- breaking up a couple of times per second or so. Anyone have any ideas on what this could be?

Here are the digital stations I'm getting:
8.1,8.2
11.1,11.2
13.1 (choppy audio, makes it unwatchable)
17.1,17.2
23.1
34.1
56.1

I'm guessing I don't get 5.1 because I've only had this set up since yesterday.

As I said, I am in Huxley. I am also indoors, 2nd floor of an apartment complex -- not a great scenario but I am able to get 90 signal at times with 13.1 so I would think I should be good to go...

Also, want to note the antennas. I first tried a $7 kmart uhf/vhf combo. Then I went to an RCA ANT103. Finally went to a Terk HDTVa -- $70 one from Best Buy. They all performed the exact same -- pulled all channels listed, audio problem on 13.1. Nothing boosted the signal significantly better than another.

Any ideas at all?

ToddR

10-04-07, 09:22 AM

"Viewers still are able to see our digital signal through Mediacom..."

I'm kind of pissed I forgot to check for their clear QAM signal on Mediacom last night when we wanted to watch Dirty Sexy Money in HD. I discovered that the OTA signal was down, and settled for analog. Didn't know it had been down for days.

So do the local Des Moines stations feed Mediacom directly via fiber or something, and thus are immune to OTA transmission problems?

hasan

10-05-07, 10:07 AM

Still no joy as of 9:00 a.m. today (Friday 10/5).

Anyone heard any further news?

TC Taylor

10-05-07, 06:02 PM

jakllsch

10-05-07, 08:11 PM

Not a clue on 13.1. I've had it stutter on me as well, and the best I've been able to figure out is that it's the network feed, since the local programming seems to be without the audio trouble.

Yeah, I've noticed an audio issue with a recording I made of 13-1 during
Sept. 24th's prime time. I've not actually watched this recording yet.

Personally, I'm still wondering why I can pick everything except 23.1 up from Southwest Ames. *sighs* I've aimed the antenna, I've noticed a /little/ ghosting on the analog channels but all the digital channels come in at 90-100% strength.

I'm just west of campus, in a valley with a amplified antenna on a
rather tall mast. Everything other than 56 comes in reasonably
well.

In the 2/3 of a year I've had an ATSC tuner there have been times
where KDMI 56 (all three subchannels thereof included) is totally
unreceivable. At the moment, reception is rather spotty. Yet I'm at
least getting occasional pictures.

techtvman

10-06-07, 05:13 PM

is 5.1 back up yet, i cant get it here

Jswerve

10-06-07, 06:18 PM

is 5.1 back up yet, i cant get it here but
I'm in Fort Dodge and it's still out here, really getting annoying!

gutwrencher

10-06-07, 06:29 PM

What, STILL no WOI HD signal? They are going to deprive me of an HD nascar race? NOT THIS RACE! Arrgghhh!!!!!

Pull yer heads out guys.....it's been long enough. FIX IT.:rolleyes:

tooloud10

10-06-07, 06:39 PM

Yeah, I'm here checking because of the NASCAR race, too. I really don't want to watch it in SD...

kc0bsn

10-06-07, 07:12 PM

I believe the WOI-DT issue was burnt transmission line, which is quite costly and time consuming to repair. I've heard that several sections of transmission line were ruined, but haven't heard on progress for repairs.

Sawasdeecf

10-06-07, 10:39 PM

Given WOI's 5.1 problems with signal strength in WDM area, and now this, I feel that DTV should allow me to receive a nation ABC feed. WOI doesn't really seem up on providing a good signal before, but now it isn't provide any signal for a week. So much for WOI providing a quality OTA digital signals.

SpurgeN8R

10-06-07, 11:17 PM

Shouldn't WOI-DT be building some sort of redundancy into their broadcast signal? From what I remember, WOI-DT has had a couple of lengthy outages since coming online a couple of years ago. Do you think we need to put some pressure on management? The website has the chief engineer listed as Dennis Poffenberger dpoffen@myabc5.com (515) 457-9645 x130. Maybe we should all call or drop him an e-mail urging him to get on the ball. Can anything be done at the FCC level?

Also, I noticed KCCI has a new news studio starting up on Monday. Has anyone heard if they're planning to broadcast in HDTV?

kc0bsn

10-07-07, 03:10 AM

None of the local stations have redundant systems in place to recover from a transmission line failure on the digital signal. In fact, I believe KCCI may be the only station that could actually transmit from their studios if there were some sort of catastrophic failure of an Alleman tower on the analog side. When analog goes away, I can only assume, but am probably incorrect, that KCCI would also be able to use the downtown transmitter as a backup in the case of transmission line failure at Alleman.

Also, to try to kind of illustrate what the transmission lines look like that I'm talking about, below is one kind of coupler used to join sections together, and usually each section is about 20 feet long. It's not exactly a cut in a coax cable that you may think. What does sound to be wrong, though, is that WOI's transmitter should be detecting a high amount of energy coming back down the transmission line (SWR for the nerds among us), and dialing down its power automatically. Either that function is not working, or the master control operators were seeing that the power was getting cut back and only went on to try raising the power.
http://www.jampro.com/uploads/images/products/lines/coupwin.jpg

jstiefel

10-07-07, 02:05 PM

just thought I would vent my disgust at WOI...unreal that something like this is down for so long.

Newbie06

10-07-07, 02:26 PM

gutwrencher

10-07-07, 02:42 PM

I can't believe I'm actually having to watch the race on my 36" standard...in the basement.:(

To make matters worse....I don't even like the Chiefs and Jags....but I can't even watch THAT in HD. What the hell? Does anyone have their act together today?

tooloud10

10-07-07, 02:43 PM

just thought I would vent my disgust at WOI...unreal that something like this is down for so long.

It does make one question WOI's plan for when everything is required to be digital. Should we be looking forward to going without ABC television for a week at a time while they sort out problems?

I think it's been at least a year since any of the other channels have had the slightest difficulty maintaining a digital signal.

1dersky

10-07-07, 02:47 PM

WOI = "Works Only Intermittently".

kc0bsn

10-07-07, 03:06 PM

To make matters worse....I don't even like the Chiefs and Jags....but I can't even watch THAT in HD. What the hell? Does anyone have their act together today?The early game, Jacksonville @ Kansas City, wasn't scheduled to be sent in HD by CBS. The late game, San Diego @ Denver, however, will be in HD.

gutwrencher

10-07-07, 03:33 PM

My bad....should have done my research.:rolleyes:

dline

10-07-07, 04:05 PM

It does make one question WOI's plan for when everything is required to be digital. Should we be looking forward to going without ABC television for a week at a time while they sort out problems?I hope not, but there are several things working against it.

First, if the problem WAS too much energy through the line as kc0bsn suggests, the master control ops will learn from this. Not everyone is trained in the fact that a drop in power may be a symptom of a bigger problem and that hitting the "raise power" button repeatedly could just make things worse. Hopefully now they'll learn when to call a transmitter engineer instead. This is the type of thing you just don't run into everyday.

Second, WOI no doubt has some backup systems (a generator, etc.) for its analog transmitter. Yet they were probably developed with just one transmitter in mind, not two, and since more people have analog equipment than digital (for now) the analog is seen as a higher priority. When analog goes away, they should be able to switch some of those systems to the digital side.

Finally, WOI elected to run its digital on channel 5 after the transition, which means they'll need to put out far less power than they are now on channel 59 or even on their analog channel 5.

n691665x

10-07-07, 10:49 PM

I just got this reply from an email I sent to WOI... Looks like they might be down for another week.

"An outage in our digital transmission system occurred last Monday, 10/1. It
took two days to get a crew and the specialized test equipment assembled to
diagnose the problem: a burned-out power divider on our digital antenna
(frustrating because it appears that the problem is the result of a
manufacturing defect on equipment less than 2 years old). It will take
another 7-10 days to get the replacement parts fabricated and shipped to Des
Moines in order to make the permanent repairs. We have a plan to make a
temporary fix, but the wet and windy weather late last week prevented the
tower crew from scaling the 2000' tower to attempt those repairs. We plan to
try again tomorrow evening (we have to work after 1am or so in order to
avoid disrupting the other stations' transmissions)."

tooloud10

10-08-07, 07:52 PM

I hope not, but there are several things working against it.

First, if the problem WAS too much energy through the line as kc0bsn suggests, the master control ops will learn from this. Not everyone is trained in the fact that a drop in power may be a symptom of a bigger problem and that hitting the "raise power" button repeatedly could just make things worse. Hopefully now they'll learn when to call a transmitter engineer instead. This is the type of thing you just don't run into everyday.

Second, WOI no doubt has some backup systems (a generator, etc.) for its analog transmitter. Yet they were probably developed with just one transmitter in mind, not two, and since more people have analog equipment than digital (for now) the analog is seen as a higher priority. When analog goes away, they should be able to switch some of those systems to the digital side.

Finally, WOI elected to run its digital on channel 5 after the transition, which means they'll need to put out far less power than they are now on channel 59 or even on their analog channel 5.

Sure, that all makes sense, but speaking strictly as a consumer, I'd say it doesn't do much for me. Every point in WOI's favor still gets me stammering "But the other stations don't seem to have these problems. When did they learn how to do it properly?"

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate that there are smart people working on it (at 1 AM on 2000' towers! ouch!), but it's just frustrating because it seems like a lot of the programming I enjoy is affected (new season of shows, NASCAR, etc.).

I guess having to watch SD makes me lash out after getting all the new MPEG4 channels on D*. :)

bogz

10-09-07, 09:28 PM

WOI is also the only channel on my Directv that has STATIC on it (a small amount). You KNOW that it is coming from the source, as Directv doesn't have 'static'.

Sawasdeecf

10-09-07, 10:22 PM

I decide to double check the reception of WOI through my basic MediaCom connection (I have MediaCom for Internet access) and WOI's picture in through my cable connection on channel 115.4 is clear and static free.

This is much better then what I was getting through my OTA connection through my DTV H20-600 before, and much better then the picture provided by DTV on channel 5 with Choice Extra w/local.

garn91

10-10-07, 10:33 AM

Does anyone expect Mediacom to add any new HD channels this year in light of the huge amount of channel additions on DirecTV and DishNetwork? I mean I think the last channel they added (save for Fox which we can get free OTA) was MOJO, and that was over a year ago. Are they just going to lay down and die while every new HD owner goes elsewhere?

I often wonder what their business plan looks like. Between lack of HD and their whiny commercials about the Big Ten Network, it really seems like they don't care how many customers they have.

Unfortunately for me, I am kind of stuck with Mediacom, because they televise so many of the Cyclone MBB games on the Connections 22 channel. I just wish they would follow suit with all these other cable companies that recently added Food Net HD, TBS HD, etc. :mad:

Don't hold your breath. The way Mediascam operates, the only video customers they'll have left will be blue hairs who have no idea what HDTV is as everyone else will have moved on to satellite for either HDTV, NFL Network, Big Ten Network, and/or Comcast Sportsnet Chicago.

I switched over to DirecTV earlier this year and currently in the market for an HDTV.

dline

10-10-07, 01:05 PM

Don't hold your breath. The way Mediascam operates, the only video customers they'll have left will be blue hairs who have no idea what HDTV is as everyone else will have moved on to satellite for either HDTV, NFL Network, Big Ten Network, and/or Comcast Sportsnet Chicago.

I switched over to DirecTV earlier this year and currently in the market for an HDTV.I wouldn't overestimate things.

NFL Network is extremely limited in the scope of its programming and a lot of folks think Mediacom and other cable companies have a point when they say it doesn't belong in basic.

The Big Ten issue is more divisive and will get even more so when basketball season rolls around (assuming the Iowa basketball team isn't as bad as its football team this year). Still, there's some anger toward the Big Ten from folks who see this as a fleecing of their fans.

As for Comcast, Mediacom didn't take it because Central Iowa is Cyclone Country (don't laugh; the Hawkeyes may have won twice as many football games as ISU this year, but that isn't saying much) and they didn't want to lose the Big XII games on FSN. But interestingly, Comcast SportsNet is now carrying a lot of FSN programming and is scheduled to carry the Cyclone game this weekend, so Mediacom may want to reconsider.

BHudge

10-10-07, 01:14 PM

Jswerve

10-10-07, 11:21 PM

I'm in Urbandale and have an antenna mounted in the attic. My H10-250 shows a consistent signal strength on 13.1 in the mid-90's. The rest of the digital stations (8.1, 11.1 17.1, etc), however, have strengths in the 75-90 range but frequently drop back and forth between the peak and zero, making them unwatchable. Strangely, 13.1 seems to be the only channel that has a consistent signal even though the others (except for 8.1 and 39.1) are coming from the same place according to antennaweb.org. Any thoughts on what the problem may be? Thanks.
Sounds like some interference or perhaps you do not have your antenna pointed in the correct azimuth. Double check the azimuth and try to get it within 10 degrees.

I live in Fort Dodge and have a rooftop antenna. I get 5.1 (when it wasn't down) @ 90-100 8.1 @ 100 13.1 @ 100 and 17.1 @ 85-90.

jakllsch

10-11-07, 12:10 PM

Woots. WOI-DT is back on the air. ... Finally.

Jswerve

10-12-07, 08:27 AM

Woots. WOI-DT is back on the air. ... Finally.
It's back on but the signal is MUCH weaker.

Before the breakdown I was getting a constant 85-90+ % now only 72%. Anyone heard anything about the signal strength or getting the same problem?

Jswerve

10-12-07, 08:36 AM

It's back on but the signal is MUCH weaker.

Before the breakdown I was getting a constant 85-90+ % now only 72%. Anyone heard anything about the signal strength or getting the same problem?

I just got this from the WOI website;

Digital Transmission Problems

Oct 11, 2007 08:46 AM

ABC5's digital signal has been experiencing problems. We were able to get on the tower last night, October 10 and put a temporary antenna on the tower.

By putting this temporary antenna up we are broadcasting at low power. The tower crew will continue to work on the main antenna through the weekend to get us back to full power.

Viewers are still able to see our digital signal through Mediacom cable, as well as our analog signal though the air, cable and satellite.

Again, we appreciate your patience in this matter, and hope to get this digital service back to full strength as quickly as possible.

techtvman

10-12-07, 09:14 AM

it may be back up but it does me no good, i get 0% strength in pleasant hill, so as far as im concerned its still down to me

kanderna

10-12-07, 09:21 AM

Anybody know what was going on with WHO last night? Looked like they were having some issues with Earl, and then again with Leno. During Leno they actually switched to the SD feed.

nicholasmcgrew

10-12-07, 09:23 AM

Did anyone else notice that 13.1 wasn't broadcasting HD last night? She wanted to watch ER, and I watch because it's HD:D But the picture was "postage stamped" or whatever, where there's black bars on all 4 sides. And it was obvious that it wasn't an HD feed, just upconverted SD.

I have Mediacon basic, and get HD via QAM. Someone borrowed my antenna and hasn't given it back, so I can't speak for OTA.

Thanks,
--Nick

nicholasmcgrew

10-12-07, 09:24 AM

Ha ha, I guess I took too long with my original message.

Glad I wasn't the only one.

bogz

10-12-07, 10:26 AM

The Office on NBC (13.1) was also in SD.

It started in HD, then switched within the first few minutes back to SD. At about 8:20, after a commercial break, it went back to HD, and was very pixelated, and the sound was dropping out and making a screeching sound. That went on for ~5 minutes, then they started pumping the SD signal again for the remainder of the show (till 9:00).

ToddR

10-13-07, 07:56 PM

The other day, I came upon a spreadsheet produced by the FCC. It's found here (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/) under the 8/6/07 - FCC Announces Final Assignment of Digital Television Channels - Appendix B entry. While this list probably isn't going to be the set in stone final version (the press release provided there mentions 13 stations seeking a change), it sounds like it is very nearly so.

I checked out the central Iowa entries in that spreadsheet, and found that WOI, KCCI, KDIN, and WHO are all slated to migrate their digital broadcast back to their legacy VHF channel after analog signals go dark in 2009. KDSM, currently analog on 17, is apparently going to move to 16 after the Big Switch. (Until the transition, these five stations are all broadcasting in UHF on channels 59, 31, 50, 19, and 16, respectively.) It seems that only KDSM is broadcasting digitally on the channel it will be using after the transition, as 17 analog goes dark.

I have an HDTV that easily pulls in these local station OTA with a little Terk antenna on my mantle. They threw it in when I bought my television. It's an unpowered $25 model.

I present all of the above as a preface to my ridiculous experience at Worst Buy (West Des Moines, University) tonight when I stopped in to check out a TiVo HD. (As an aside, they have a Series 2 on the display shelf, but with the TiVo HD price card and boxes of stock beneath it. Good job.)

I was thinking about getting a second HD antenna similar to the one I have to dedicate to the TiVo HD. I know I would rarely need to use my HDTV's tuner if I had the TiVo, but I was looking anyway out of curiosity. I was approached by one of the "knowledgeable blue shirts." He proceeds to explain that I need an amplified antenna to "properly pull in those HD signals." I tell him I live in Ankeny in a location about ten miles from all the towers, and I get them all just fine with an unamplified antenna. He reiterates that I really need an amplified antenna, and that he's even heard of people in Alleman (the community practically in the shadow of everyone's towers) needing an amplified antenna for HD. I rather firmly told him that mine works just fine, and he tells me they don't have those and gestures at some old style rabbit ears contraption that your grandmother threw away in 1985 when she got cable.

We then touched on the channels after the transition. Based on the spreadsheet I cited above, I said that most of the Des Moines stations would be returning to VHF, but he claimed they'd be staying in UHF. I'm not even sure if he was claiming that they would remain on their current temporary digital channels, or move to other permanent UHF channels. I think he made a claim about WHO's future channel assignment that was inconsistent with my information as well.

He stated that they are provided with FCC information, and that BB and the FCC are "partners in the HDTV transition." I mentioned that I was citing FCC-provided data as well.

He claimed to have a broadcast license and to have worked on towers!

He also stated that KCCI is not currently broadcasting their digital signal from their main Alleman site, but rather from their backup tower downtown. Surely this is not true, because I've done a license search for KCCI and the other locals here (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp) and the azimuth still points to Alleman with everything else. Would they really go digital first at this backup location and not the main site?

Please, dear AVS reader, tell me all of this is nonsense! Hey kc0bsn, please tell me you're moving back to 8 for digital and this guy is nuts!

I'm perfectly willing to be wrong, but I will be severely depressed if more than one of his ridiculous assertions are correct. I can only believe this is the usual disinformation one receives at BB in the interest of closing a sale.

I rolled my eyes at the overpriced A/V interconnect cables, too. I'll stick with MonoPrice.

kc0bsn

10-13-07, 11:01 PM

He also stated that KCCI is not currently broadcasting their digital signal from their main Alleman site, but rather from their backup tower downtown. Surely this is not true, because I've done a license search for KCCI and the other locals here (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp) and the azimuth still points to Alleman with everything else. Would they really go digital first at this backup location and not the main site?

Please, dear AVS reader, tell me all of this is nonsense! Hey kc0bsn, please tell me you're moving back to 8 for digital and this guy is nuts!Don't worry, he's nuts. :p I can assure you, and hopefully in a few years my future children will be able to assure you that we are not transmitting from downtown. :) At one point WOI had their digital signal on the air from their West Des Moines location, but that's been from quite a while ago. Believe me... it's my new hobby to go to Best Buy and ask them questions and then bash my head into a wall. I don't fault the employees for it, as they're just giving out what information they are fed...

Oh, and yes, KCCI-DT will be moving back to VHF 8 when analog goes dark.

pendragn

10-14-07, 06:00 PM

kc0bsn

10-14-07, 06:33 PM

Todd, are all of the shows that are disappearing coming from the same station/network? Also, have you noticed any shows that don't disappear?

techtvman

10-14-07, 09:08 PM

i have an hr20 as well, and have an ant hooked up for ota hd and i dont have any shows that are dissapearing, maybe try hitting the reset button and reboot the thing see if that clears up any issues

ToddR

10-14-07, 10:11 PM

Don't worry, he's nuts. :p I can assure you, and hopefully in a few years my future children will be able to assure you that we are not transmitting from downtown. :) At one point WOI had their digital signal on the air from their West Des Moines location, but that's been from quite a while ago. Believe me... it's my new hobby to go to Best Buy and ask them questions and then bash my head into a wall. I don't fault the employees for it, as they're just giving out what information they are fed...

Oh, and yes, KCCI-DT will be moving back to VHF 8 when analog goes dark.

What a relief.:rolleyes:

KCCI can still flip a switch and broadcast analog from downtown, right? On the weather beacon tower?

I assume that's leftover from the early days before the Alleman site was erected. Obviously they're not going to install digital equipment in two places. That guy was an idiot!

kc0bsn

10-15-07, 01:23 AM

I'm not actually sure what the plans are, but I don't see why it couldn't be a backup once digital moves to RF channel 8. The auxiliary transmitter is seen as a backup for in case the generators fails at the Alleman site and don't keep the transmitter online. That way analog 8 can still stay on the air to some degree. The downtown transmitter is also used on nights when tower maintenance requires the Alleman transmitters to shut down.

iowadish

10-15-07, 06:19 AM

mrphilby

10-15-07, 08:52 AM

I've got an HR20 from DirecTV and a small Terk antenna. It gets me the Des Moines DT stations pretty well. The tuner in the HR20 is better than the one in the HR10 so I started recording HD shows OTA. I've started having problems where shows will record, but when I try to play them the HR20 jumps right to "do you want to delete this recording." I know the shows recorded because when I do delete them my available space increases. This has only happened with OTA recordings so far as I've seen. Then I had another interested thing happen last night. We had a bunch of shows saved up that we hadn't watched yet. 2 or 3 or each program. This morning a bunch were missing. Last night I had 3 episodes of Big Shots, today I had 2. Last night 2 Private Practices, today 1. Etc. Every single program that disappeared was recorded from a Des Moines DT station OTA.

My question is, does anyone know if there are any DRM bits being flipped in the Des Moines OTA stations? That might explain why the recordings would expire or not play back.

tk

the only time this happens to me is if I recorded a show in a station i do not receive or my HR20 is not able to find a signal for. Most recently it has been happening with channel 5 since they are having issues with their digital tower...although it did happen with stargate atlantis on the scifi HD channel because I was unable to receive it for some reason. So it's happened to me on OTA and satellite channels.

I refreshed my service online and then called cust serv because it was not working (along with another couple HD channels) after being on hold for a bit I was telling her the channel numbers and needed to click the channel to tell her what the error message was - and they were all working...

I would see if you can tune to the channel that these recordings are from - and if not that's your problem.

Jswerve

10-15-07, 08:04 PM

Long time lurker, first time poster. I am getting a HR20 installed on this wednesday and am planning on hooking my CM1160 up to it to receive the DSM HD channels. My TV does not have an internal tuner so I will finally be able to utilize my HDTV with the new DTV receiver and my OTA antenna. My question is this: With a 20db amp. I can get an excellent picture on all channels (sd). Will the HD come in fine also with the HR20? I have been told by a local retailer that I should have no problems. What do you folks think?
Thanks in advance.
I am in Fort Dodge and use a rooftop antenna from Wineguard. I get all stations @ 80% or better. 13.1 and 8.1 are consistently 100% with 17.1 and 5.1 ranging from 80-90% (5.1 is actually 72% right now they are using a weaker tower to broadcast until the repairs are complete). Anyways, I do not use any amplifier at all and have no issues. Hope this helps.

iowadish

10-16-07, 06:12 AM

I am in Fort Dodge and use a rooftop antenna from Wineguard. I get all stations @ 80% or better. 13.1 and 8.1 are consistently 100% with 17.1 and 5.1 ranging from 80-90% (5.1 is actually 72% right now they are using a weaker tower to broadcast until the repairs are complete). Anyways, I do not use any amplifier at all and have no issues. Hope this helps.

Thanks- I am getting excited for the install. Let's hope the installer knows what he is doing and there are no issues. Past experience has been that I am more knowledgeable than most of these guys. I have installed/setup most of my relatives and friends satellites, home theaters, computers, etc. and get questions constantly. I get so much information from these types of forums and have been monitoring for years. I appreciate everyones input. Will post my experience with the DTV upgrade and the signal quality of the DSM HD channels.

clones83

10-16-07, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by pendragn
I've got an HR20 from DirecTV and a small Terk antenna. It gets me the Des Moines DT stations pretty well. The tuner in the HR20 is better than the one in the HR10 so I started recording HD shows OTA. I've started having problems where shows will record, but when I try to play them the HR20 jumps right to "do you want to delete this recording." I know the shows recorded because when I do delete them my available space increases. This has only happened with OTA recordings so far as I've seen. Then I had another interested thing happen last night. We had a bunch of shows saved up that we hadn't watched yet. 2 or 3 or each program. This morning a bunch were missing. Last night I had 3 episodes of Big Shots, today I had 2. Last night 2 Private Practices, today 1. Etc. Every single program that disappeared was recorded from a Des Moines DT station OTA.

My question is, does anyone know if there are any DRM bits being flipped in the Des Moines OTA stations? That might explain why the recordings would expire or not play back.

tk

I've been having a similar experience lately. I also have an HR20 & have had several of my OTA season pass shows not recording. I check history & it says the program partially recorded & then was unavailable (no part of the show ended up in my play list). This has happened on 13-1 with Heroes & Life, 17-1 with Prison Break & analog 5 with Dirty Sexy Money. Can't figure out why for sure.

techtvman

10-16-07, 09:22 PM

is abc 5.1 still not up to full power yet?

Disantinon

10-17-07, 12:41 PM

cpwilde

10-17-07, 02:52 PM

I've been having a similar experience lately. I also have an HR20 & have had several of my OTA season pass shows not recording. I check history & it says the program partially recorded & then was unavailable (no part of the show ended up in my play list). This has happened on 13-1 with Heroes & Life, 17-1 with Prison Break & analog 5 with Dirty Sexy Money. Can't figure out why for sure.

The same for my HR20, but not necessarily on OTA. Just had it happen on the new HD Discovery channel. It's acting like it had a loss of signal and didn't actually record the show. But, I don't think I've had enough rain to see rain fade. Maybe it's a software bug? I doubt it's DRM. I keep a lot of recordings on my HR20 for extended periods of time, and the only recordings that I've ever had "time out" on me are shows that were recorded from PPV channels.

cpwilde

10-17-07, 02:56 PM

Any updated word on when DirecTV will start carrying local HDs?

I signed my mom and brother up not knowing that they wouldn't carry this (I live in a bigger city, so just assumed that everyone got the locals in HD).

They told my brother "by the end of the year," but in some searching I see that in October '06 they said "by the end of the year" for Des Moines, and that this summer there was some speculation for September. I need to decide whether to buy an antenna or wait it out.

DirecTV is now saying "the first half of '08" for Des Moines HD locals. The earlier delays were caused by satellite launch delays. Now the new satellites are finally launched, but they appear to have changed course a little bit, and they're concentrating on releasing a big pile of new national HD channels before they get back to doing further HD local-into-local launches.

dline

10-17-07, 09:07 PM

is abc 5.1 still not up to full power yet?I just got back from the Ames area and they read a couple of bars lower than 8 and 13. They admit on their website (www.myabc5.com) that they're having problems but they seem to be doing OK toward Story County.

On the other hand the channel carrying 23-1 and 56-1 was barely managing 3 bars at the same receiver location, so I guess whoever's complaining about those channels really does have a point.:(

iowadish

10-19-07, 08:01 AM

mrphilby

10-19-07, 09:23 AM

cpwilde

10-20-07, 09:35 PM

Ok, got the HR20 hooked up yesterday along with my OTA for the HD locals. In Fort Dodge, how many HD channels should I get with my OTA? Which ones should I be getting? Before hooking up to the HR20, I was able to get SD channels 5,8,11,13,17,21,and 23 (my HD tv does not have an internal HD tuner) crystal clear. Should I be able to receive all of these in HD also now that I am hooked up to the HR20? I also get the DSM locals as part of my Directv package but do they show up separately on my program guide from my OTA channels or not? I know I may sound confusing but if I hit channel 5 on my remote is it from my OTA or from The satellite? Thanks

The HR20 displays the SD locals it receives via satellite and the HD locals it receives via antenna on separate, but adjacent, lines in the program guide, lined up in order of channel number. The SD signal received via satellite is listed first, and that is what you will get when you key in "5". You will get the HD OTA station when you key in "5.1". Your receiver will pick up the over-the-air HD channels based upon the quality of your UHF reception. All of the digital OTA channels are currently broadcast in the UHF band, though some of those are temporary. WOI, KCCI, KDIN, and WHO all plan to move their digital signal down to their traditional VHF channels after the 2/17/09 analog shutoff deadline. Meanwhile, the channel numbers 5.1, 8.1, 8.2, 11.1, 11.2, 13.1, etc. that your receiver displays are really just "virtual" numbers that are embedded in the signals' ancillary data streams. Since you say you get channels 17 and 23 well, you should do fine with the Des Moines-area digital channels, also. There can be small differences in how digital and analog signals respond to reception impediments such as low signal, high signal, or multipath reflections, but, for the most part, UHF is UHF, and uses the same sort of antenna. Digital/HDTV is just a different way of modulating the same frequency. Small UHF set-top antennas work fine for some people, but it's still hard to beat the performance of a good 'ol "yagi" (rooftop-style) VHF/UHF antenna, mounted as high up with as much of a clear line of sight toward Alleman, IA that you can get. Here is the current lineup of digital channels that should be receivable within the Des Moines broadcast area (which includes Ft. Dodge):

WOI-DT - "5.1" (actual channel #59)
KCCI-DT - "8.1" and "8.2" (actual channel #31)
KDIN-DT - "11.1" and "11.2" (actual channel #50)
WHO-DT - "13.1" (actual channel #19)
KDSM-DT - "17.1 and 17.2" (actual channel #16)
KCWI-DT - "23.1" (actual channel #56)
KDMI-DT - "56.1" (actual channel #56)

That's probably more than you were asking about, but you had several questions, and it's been awhile since a basic summary like that has been posted on this thread.

pendragn

10-21-07, 11:04 PM

Todd, are all of the shows that are disappearing coming from the same station/network? Also, have you noticed any shows that don't disappear?
I've noticed it on 8-1, 5-1 and 13-1. I'm not sure if it's related to reception or not. I suspect not, as the recordings take space. My available space goes up when I delete the recordings that I can't watch.

tk

L.T.

10-22-07, 04:04 PM

herrjj1

10-23-07, 09:28 AM

I was watching CBS last night (7-9pm) and noticed that I was only getting audio through two speakers from my receiver. I have OTA that is run through a DirecTV HR20 and then the audio goes to a Pioneer 917 receiver through a Digital coxial calbe. I have the receiver set to Auto Surround and have not had a problem getting DD 5.1 in the past. Also the receiver would pick up Dolby Digital but once again it was only coming out of the front two speakers. Wondering if anyone else noticed this?

kc0bsn

10-23-07, 05:49 PM

I haven't worked a Monday night in a long time, but my latest info from CBS shows that the Big Bang Theory (7.30p) and 2.5 Men (8p) aren't available in 5.1. Was CSI: Miami in 5.1 for you?

herrjj1

10-23-07, 08:21 PM

Thanks for the reply. I had to reset my HR20 twice and then the correct audio was output to the receiver. I noticed that Big Bang and Two and Half Men were not in DD 5.1 but the other shows were coming through in DD 5.1.

Is there any where that tells you whether a show is in DD 5.1 or not?

Lohrville

10-24-07, 12:34 PM

nicholasmcgrew

10-24-07, 12:52 PM

If you have a QAM tuner in your HDTV but you do not have either a cable box or a cablecard, what Mediacom channels can you get besides the first 78 analog channels, the HDTV channels for the local stations, and the music channels?
Anything else?

I am standard Mediacom cable. No box, no cable card, no digital service.

There was a time when we'd get the VOD channels, but those days are gone. I do get ABC, CBS, NBC local HD's, along with 8.2 (weather). No FOX, CW, 13.2, though. I also get the mess of music channels. I also get 1 PBS HD. My TV also picks up this extra CSPAN. I don't know if it's digital or what the deal is.

I will say I haven't scanned in a while. I could try this tonight and give you a full report.

Good luck :)

kc0bsn

10-24-07, 02:05 PM

WHO's 13.2 is no more, so no one gets that one. For KDSM, check in the 90s for them. I believe it shows up on my set around 95-2 or 95-4..something like that.

nicholasmcgrew

10-24-07, 02:10 PM

Yeah, you can see how long ago I tried to scan. Last time I plugged in my antenna, I got 13.2, but that was right as it was going out. :D

But I was getting HD Fox, on 95.4, but it quit working months ago. I haven't rescanned since then. I tried off and on for several days or weeks, and it never came back. So I just left it alone.

I guess a rescan is in order!

nicholasmcgrew

10-24-07, 09:39 PM

larrybob

10-24-07, 11:23 PM

i'm trying to decide which to go with. it seems that neither currently has locals in HD. dish tells me that i can record my OTA locals to the DVR. direct says i cannot do this. can anyone confirm this?

are there other differences betwen the two which are real significant?

thanks for advice in advance.

fireshoes

10-24-07, 11:53 PM

fireshoes

10-25-07, 12:03 AM

Quick question regarding Mediacom's HD service. Was wondering the pro's and con's of a set top box vs. a cable card. I have a Sony KDS-A2000 and mediacom's expanded basic cable now. Looking to add HD service and was told that it's $9.95 a month plus an additional $9.95 a month for set top box OR $9.95 a month plus an additional $1.95 a month for cable card. I already receive all local's (abc, cbs, nbc, fox & pbs) in HD so the only channels I'll be gaining are ESPN 1 & 2 and the Discovery channel. Any help is appreciated!

You would also get HDNet, HDNet Movies, and Mojo with the CableCard. Also the tuner in your Sony is probably better than the tuner in the cable box, so you would probably get better picture quality on most channels using the CableCard. Pro for the cable box would be DVR service.

ToddR

10-25-07, 09:16 AM

You would also get HDNet, HDNet Movies, and Mojo with the CableCard. Also the tuner in your Sony is probably better than the tuner in the cable box, so you would probably get better picture quality on most channels using the CableCard. Pro for the cable box would be DVR service.

Man, Mediacom has lame HD offerings in the Des Moines area. I'd like to play with CableCARDS in my TiVo HD sometime, but to add what, two channels that I'd actually want and can't get OTA, why bother? They just don't seem to try very hard...Sinclair snafu, D* adding lots of channels...ramp it up over there. For now I'll remain analog "family cable" with OTA for HD.

ToddR

10-25-07, 09:29 AM

So I rescanned tonight (twice actually) and this is what I found

8.1 - Local CBS HD
8.2 - Local CBS Weather HD
13.1 - Local NBC HD
81.007 - Versus Network
101.256 - CSPAN
110.010 - Sportsmans Network
113.001 - Undetermined
113.003 - Des Moines Public Schools
115.002 - PBS?
115.004 - Local ABC HD

I couldn't get Fox HD and I also have appeared to have lost my Music Channels. Anyone else verify this?

That sounds about right. 115-2 is the main KDIN feed; they don't seem to carry KDIN's 11-2 channel over QAM. 115-4 is WOI-DT. It seems like I found KDSM-DT once in the 95's as has been suggested, but I can't seem to repeat that.

It's odd that KDIN and WOI do not remap themselves to their normal channels numbers, instead remaining displayed as 115-2 and 115-4. I don't recall where KCCI and WHO fall in the QAM lineup because they immediately remap themselves to 8 and 13 on my tuner.

Could this be related to how Mediacom receives these signals? I was reading somewhere else that if a cable company pulls the OTA signal, the PSIP data tends to be retained (and thus the channel will remap) but if they obtain it through other means (dedicated fiber run to the head end?) it tends to lose the PSIP data. When WOI-DT was off the air for several days a while back, it was still available on QAM. Since it appears that their QAM carriage did not rely on their OTA signal being available, and their channel number doesn't remap properly, perhaps this is true.

I got my HDTV in January. At that time, I could see a bunch of VOD channels, including people pausing/fast-forwarding/etc., and the Music Choice channels. The VOD went encrypted several weeks after that, and maybe this summer sometime I noticed the music ones were also apparently encrypted as I could no longer tune them.

nicholasmcgrew

10-25-07, 09:39 AM

ToddR

10-25-07, 10:09 AM

ToddR,

Glad to know I'm not crazy, at least from losing the music channels and FOX.

I got my HDTV in December, and noticed the VOD and Music Channels. Actually, I believe you PM'd me a nice, detailed listing of them at one time.

I wish we had another choice in cable companies, because I made it a point to get a TV with an ATSC/QAM tuner. But in my next place, I will just go with D* and actually get some HD channels. I then could still use my TV to tune the OTA HD channels.

Oh, yeah...I sent that eight months ago!

In my neighborhood, the percentage of homes sporting a DBS dish is awfully high. Does that tell you something, Mediacom?

I kind of stick with them because I like the internet service, and having that without television programming would increase its cost. I also like having my TiVo be able to do its own thing with the cable signal rather than having to have a set-top box. Maybe it will be worth going to CableCARDS someday if they ever make their digital lineup worthwhile with lots of HD offerings, and then my TiVo can still do its thing without an STB. Or, they could just screw me by implementing switched digital video (SDV).

My two closest neighbors use Mediacom for tv/phone/internet and internet only, respectively. Whenever something happens with the cable signal, I usually check with them and have them report it as well. The second neighbor doesn't always notice right away because it doesn't effect his television. Mediacom seems to need calls from three subscribers to escalate an incident to a more reasonable response time. I particularly enjoyed the time when I reported an outage and the rep said "oh, that car that hit the utility pole is affecting you people clear up there?" Nice.:rolleyes:

larrybob

10-25-07, 07:17 PM

The Dish DVR definitely records OTA. It has three HD tuners in it, so you can records OTA and two satellite shows at one time. You can also connect it to a second tv, which can view the HD channels, though they aren't output in HD for the second room.

but can i record and watch the OTA in HD? i am getting mixed answers from the directv people themselves. one will tell me that i can record OTA but not in HD and the next will tell me that i can record OTA in HD. i am confused. my head spins.

cad

10-26-07, 09:47 AM

Larrybob you do not need to worry there are 2 tuners in the Direct tv DVR. I routinely watch and record HD. You can record 2 ota channels at the same time or you can watch one and record another. Here is a link that has all kinds of neat info about the HR20 http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648

larrybob

10-26-07, 02:52 PM

it seems that the recording question differs with the "new" HD/DVR near as I can tell. with the old HR20 you can record HD OTA but not with the new HR21. does anyone know about this?

Boulder_GP

10-27-07, 08:13 AM

it seems that the recording question differs with the "new" HD/DVR near as I can tell. with the old HR20 you can record HD OTA but not with the new HR21. does anyone know about this?
The HR21 series does not have an internal ATSC tuner, so no HD OTA can be recorded (until the day we get HD locals from D*) like the HR20 series does.

larrybob

10-27-07, 04:50 PM

The HR21 series does not have an internal ATSC tuner, so no HD OTA can be recorded (until the day we get HD locals from D*) like the HR20 series does.

can you still get the HR20? what other benefits are there to the HR21?

kanderna

10-27-07, 11:12 PM

can you still get the HR20? what other benefits are there to the HR21?

I can't really speak to the HR21, but I know you can still get the HR20. For differences, check out this forum on DBSTalk...

HR20/21 forum (http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112)

kanderna

10-28-07, 10:19 PM

Anyone have issues with WHO OTA on Thursday night? I missed pretty much all of NBC Thurs... from 7-830. They switched to SD during Scrubs, so that came in OK.

mrphilby

10-29-07, 10:43 AM

Anyone have issues with WHO OTA on Thursday night? I missed pretty much all of NBC Thurs... from 7-830. They switched to SD during Scrubs, so that came in OK.

This is 2 weeks in a row they've had a problem with the HD signal on a thursday night - not sure if it's the local channel or the national feed that's having trouble.

I've had to watch The Office in letter/pillarboxed SD on the HD channel for the past 2 weeks...

nicholasmcgrew

10-29-07, 11:11 AM

ER was ok Thursday at 9. It'd been boxed in previous weeks. But I also am getting it via QAM through my Mediacom standard cable.

kanderna

10-29-07, 11:42 AM

Yeah, ER and Scrubs (after about the first 2 mins) were fine... everything else was bad news. I may have to start TiVo-ing the SD channel since I'm going to miss everything this Thurs too. :rolleyes:

ankenyclone

10-29-07, 07:52 PM

Does anyone else think that Mediacom will add TNT-HD on Tuesday? I know the NBA season is starting up, and the timing would seem to be there considering they are removing around 15 digital channels on Tuesday as well. I could be way off, but since Mediacom hasn't offered TNT for the past few years, I think its about time for it to come online.

SnakeEyes

11-01-07, 07:15 PM

ToddR

11-01-07, 10:30 PM

Do they even post a comprehensive channel guide anywhere online? I guess it would have to be ZIP code-aware.

mrphilby

11-04-07, 08:47 PM

try titantv.com

iowahawkeye

11-04-07, 11:13 PM

Just to let you western neighbors know that our eastern IA ABC station KCRG has filed suit against mediacom last week, yup another retransmission agreement fight. Hopefully it won't be as ugly as the kgan/kdsm/$inclair deal. http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pb...711010030/1004

mrphilby

11-05-07, 09:04 AM

Is anyone in DM area still having trouble with WOI's digital signal?

It seems like last week it was working - but now I'm unable to pick up a signal? Do i just need to play with my antenna a little bit?

ToddR

11-05-07, 10:59 AM

try titantv.com

Hey, not bad! Thanks.

Is anyone in DM area still having trouble with WOI's digital signal?

It seems like last week it was working - but now I'm unable to pick up a signal? Do i just need to play with my antenna a little bit?

I haven't noticed any disruptions on mine. I'm about nine miles from the Alleman transmitter site with a small antenna on my mantel driving the TiVo.

mrphilby

11-06-07, 11:56 AM

Thanks - looks like I'll be playing around with my antenna (why is it so hard to find a position that picks up all the channels equally?? I guess that's what I get from using a little antenna behind my TV instead of a rooftop one...)

ToddR

11-07-07, 04:31 PM

Back at post 2888 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11897300&postcount=2888), I got off on a Best Buy rant, and didn't fully address a reception issue I was concerned about at that time.

Lots of people have been busy finding an antenna solution that works right for them. For now, everyone is broadcasting their digital signal in UHF. That dictates certain antenna needs and configurations. However, 5, 8, 11, and 13 will be moving their digital signal back to their legacy VHF channels once analog signals are turned off. It seems to me that this could potentially be disruptive to people who don't have adequate VHF capability in their antenna.

How can I reliably tell if my little mantel antenna will be able to adequately do its job when digitals move to VHF? Especially WOI, which is among only 2% of the nation's stations assigned to VHF-low (2-6) for digital. For the most part, VHF-low is being somewhat abandoned in the digital transition because of unfavorable technical characteristics in that portion of the spectrum.

I've played around with my antenna a little bit on the OTA analogs, but reception wasn't as good as my normal cable on those analogs. I can only assume that it will probably be good enough for digital's all-or-nothing (or borderline and full of macroblocking) tuning properties.

People seeking HD OTA beyond, say, 20-30 miles away have probably gone to nice antennas that pull in both UHF and VHF just fine. But others closer to the transmitter around metro Des Moines may feel like they're all set for the transition with their smaller (and perhaps indoor) antennas only to get burned when they aren't able to do good VHF reception. They might being using OTA HD with Dish or DirecTV because those services don't provide our locals in HD.

Is this a valid concern or no biggie? For example, mrphilby, this could affect you because you're using a small indoor antenna like me.

dline

11-07-07, 07:21 PM

cpwilde

11-09-07, 04:34 PM

Hello DSM-area HDTV viewers:

I'm going to just go ahead and blow my cover, here, since many of you probably already know that there's a KCCI employee or two on this thread, anyway. I'm the Asst. Chief Engineer at KCCI, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of an HDTV audio volume issue. It seems to only happen with certain receivers, so I'd like to do an informal poll of some people with a variety of different receiver and audio systems.

We're getting an unusual number of complaints about comparative audio volume when we go between CBS HDTV programs and CBS commercials during those same programs. The programming and the commercials all come down the same pipe, with no local switching or audio adjustments when network goes to commercial, but we get some people telling us that the sound gets a lot louder when CBS goes to commercial. (Local commercials are generally only inserted twice per hour during primetime, and even then they're rarely first in a commercial break). I suspect it may have something to do with the change from programs that are native 5.1 surround, to commercials that are native stereo. CBS triggers the 5.1-to-stereo switch with metadata that goes straight through to the home receiver. Lately, a few viewers have complained that the commercials sound a lot louder. I can't find such a problem in any of the stereo or 5.1 systems I monitor, but I invite a response from anyone who has witnessed such a problem; particularly if you've noticed a difference between stereo/mono/surround receivers, or witnessed it in relation to a 5.1-to-stereo metadata switch on a 5.1 home theater amp.

Please note that I'm not asking about "loud sounding commercials" in general. I'm asking about pronounced level change in the specific instance I've described with HDTV programs. The most valuable comments would be from people who can tell when they're hearing a marked change in peak audio; not just the common (and almost unavoidable) phenomenon where the mean average of many highly post-produced and compressed commercials "sounds louder" when it's dropped right next to the wider-ranging sounds of dialogue and music in a TV drama or live newscast. Broadcasters already get their fill of those complaints! :)

Please let me know what kind of sound system you listen with (stereo, 5.1, built-in TV speakers, etc.) Thanks for any input you may have!

mrphilby

11-09-07, 05:11 PM

I do notice that some commercials are quite loud when I'm watching channel 8, but I'd always written it off to the fact that commercials are almost always louder than the actual show.

I'll have to pay more attention now to see if it is more than other channels and if the 5.1 to stereo switch has anything to do with it...

nicholasmcgrew

11-09-07, 05:17 PM

I've noticed it as well. I have my TV set to a volume of 20 or 21 and cut it almost half to 12 during commericials. It's just part of watching KCCI in my house.

I have analog Mediacom, but get HD KCCI through my TV's QAM tuner. I don't have surround sound at the moment either. :mad:

I'm probably the type you DIDN'T want to hear from, but here's my 2 cents anyway.

ToddR

11-10-07, 12:48 AM

ToddR

11-10-07, 12:59 AM

n691665x

11-12-07, 10:07 AM

cpwilde,

I use a Dish Network tuner to watch/listen to Des Moines locals OTA in HD. The audio is ran via fiber optic into my surround sound receiver and to my 5 speakers. I only notice "loud" commercials on KCCI when the program is in 5.1 and the commercial is not, which I doubt you can do anything about because of the difference in the signals, like you have mentioned. I experience the same on all channels when watching in 5.1, so it is not just KCCI. I have heard that a "fix" is to limit your receiver to Dolby 2.0, but I do not want to miss out on the 5.1 sound.

kanderna

11-12-07, 10:21 AM

Welcome, cpwilde. I will have to pay more attention to the KCCI feed so I can chime in here. I'll let you know.

I also want to commend you for coming forward and becoming an active member of the board here. If there are any other station engineers lurking here, I think I can speak for most AVS members and say that we greatly appreciate it when station engineers take an active role here and ask for/provide feedback. It goes a long way in showing us you actually care about the service you're providing. Would've been nice to have a WOI rep around a few weeks ago when they went black. We welcome you all and hope you participate.

hasan

11-12-07, 11:18 AM

Well, you could check to see if you're getting 5, 8, 11 and 13 now in analog. I suspect if you're fairly close you should be able to get 8, 11 and 13 even with a small UHF like a Silver Sensor. 5, though, may be a little trickier with that kind of antenna so you may need to add a set of rabbit ears to your arsenal.

The caveat is, these stations will be using a lot less power than they're putting out with their analog, but the same is true for the UHFs, and many of us are getting those fine.

BTW, I'll have a similar situation with channels 7, 9 and 12 out here. But thankfully, my CBS affiliate on channel 2 won't be using that channel after the transition (they're staying on 51), so I won't have to deal with that issue except for the times I visit family in central Iowa.

You can end a bunch of speculation and conjecture about what you might or might not be able to receive when the UHF HD stations go aback to VHF in 2009 by going to tvfool.com (google it). It is an EXCELLENT site for evaluating signals....much, much better than antennaweb.com. The station transmitter power is listed, and the predications take into consideration the transmit antenna, as well as the topography.

Since you already know what you are getting via UHF/VHF, you can apply the signal level predictions to the VHF transition and see how things look.

From what I can see, there should be no problem with those stations going down from UHF to VHF...the path losses are reduced dramatically, especially for Channel 5...which may make up for the decrease in power for Ch 5 VHF. As I recall, path loss changes with the square of the frequency, so dropping from 400 some Mhz to 100 or less Mhz, would produce a much stronger signal.

Anywho, tvfool does all that work for you, so plug in your location (use lat/lon for best accuracy), and have a look.

For now, using a Phillips set of rabbit ears/uhf loop with low noise preamp built in (Wal-mart $34 bucks...the 50 dB gain silver version), I receive all the major networks including CW 28 miles away (north of Ogden), with no difficulty.

You don't need the 50 dB of gain, but the noise figure is only 4 dB on this built in preamp, which is quite good for garden variety products. The gain is adjustable. I don't need more than 3 of the 5 gain lights illuminated.

cpwilde

11-12-07, 12:26 PM

Thanks for the comments so far. It's seemed that the people who have leveled complaints about dramatically louder commercials have been people just using stereo audio monitoring (usually the built-in speakers in the set). nicholasmcgrew, and any others who might be witnessing this, do you use any kind of "surround sound simulation" mode on your set's stereo speakers? I'm curious whether that might be a factor.

ToddR, yes, I've also noticed that KCCI-DT's audio comes through hotter overall than several of the other OTA DTV stations. This is because CBS's audio comes in that hot. We don't presently do any processing of CBS's surround audio. It just passes through in the form we get it. Therefore, we have to match the volume of our local audio to theirs when we switch to our upconverted local content. Otherwise there'd be another big change in volume when we flip between local and network. I'm not sure why CBS is hotter than the others. You would think everybody would be shooting for a standard -20dbfs target, but that must not be the case. With analog, it never mattered, because the level of the audio is directly related to to modulation of the aural carrier of the transmitter (the percentage of which is subject to the same limits for all stations). Now the audio levels stay the same no matter what the transmitter does, and they go straight through to the home receiver, as originally set by the network in New York. The great thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from!

Please keep the constructive comments coming. I'm not as frequent a participant on this site as fellow employee kc0bsn is, but I'll keep checking in every few days.

ToddR

11-12-07, 04:01 PM

You can end a bunch of speculation and conjecture about what you might or might not be able to receive when the UHF HD stations go aback to VHF in 2009 by going to tvfool.com (google it). It is an EXCELLENT site for evaluating signals....much, much better than antennaweb.com. The station transmitter power is listed, and the predications take into consideration the transmit antenna, as well as the topography.

Since you already know what you are getting via UHF/VHF, you can apply the signal level predictions to the VHF transition and see how things look.

From what I can see, there should be no problem with those stations going down from UHF to VHF...the path losses are reduced dramatically, especially for Channel 5...which may make up for the decrease in power for Ch 5 VHF. As I recall, path loss changes with the square of the frequency, so dropping from 400 some Mhz to 100 or less Mhz, would produce a much stronger signal.

Anywho, tvfool does all that work for you, so plug in your location (use lat/lon for best accuracy), and have a look.

For now, using a Phillips set of rabbit ears/uhf loop with low noise preamp built in (Wal-mart $34 bucks...the 50 dB gain silver version), I receive all the major networks including CW 28 miles away (north of Ogden), with no difficulty.

You don't need the 50 dB of gain, but the noise figure is only 4 dB on this built in preamp, which is quite good for garden variety products. The gain is adjustable. I don't need more than 3 of the 5 gain lights illuminated.

Ah, I think I've seen one of those report images posted around here before (probably by you!) but I didn't happen to notice where the site was and thus hadn't played with it myself until now. Thanks for specifying the url. Fascinating stuff.

In looking at my analog results (http://s124843384.onlinehome.us/images/plots/todd-radar-analog.png), am I to assume that the digital broadcasts, when moved down to these VHF frequencies, will behave like the analogs there now do? All the transmission strengths will be adjusted to perform appropriately for digital on the new frequencies, etc., right? In other words, the model doesn't know the intended transmitter power for 5, 8, 11, & 13 when those signals are digital instead of analog.

As we approach the transition date, I hope these models (tvfool, antennaweb, 2150) will be updated to account for post-transition channel assignments and power levels. Of the Big Four & PBS locally, only KDSM's post-transition digital signal (16) can be plotted because they're already there now and staying after the transition.

As a separate matter, how is it that pretty much all the metro Des Moines channels, with the exception of KCCI, appear to be transmitting their digital signals from a single tower that is separate from these stations' respective analog facilities? (KCCI apparently does analog & digital from their existing tower.) Will these stations eventually move digital to their other towers or stay on the newer one? And if so, what of their old tower? Man, I'm full of trivial questions today.:)

ToddR

11-15-07, 02:13 PM

Can I get a little sympathy if I complain about WOI not showing its basketball-delayed ABC programming in HD last night? Once one is used to a program appearing in HD, it's hard to go back to SD! :p

I guess they don't have a super duper broadcast network TiVo over there yet. This might be more annoying than weather text crawls forcing a drop to SD on stormy nights.

kc0bsn

11-15-07, 02:21 PM

ToddR

11-15-07, 03:59 PM

To be fair, none of the broadcast stations in Des Moines (that I know of anyway) have a "Super Duper Broadcast Network TiVo". Although, that is a pretty awesome name. ;) It could be a great marketing gimmick to broadcasters.

This same situation came up a year or two ago with KDSM and their basketball game broadcasts. It's probably fair to guess that once stations truly start getting HD master controls the use of an HD delay server can transition from a dream to reality.
Yeah, I was using that imaginary product name to soften my facetiousness a little. :) I'm sure being able to timeshift the network feed in HD is an expensive proposition for a station, especially before they've updated their whole shop.

Isn't KCCI using HD-capable squeeze & crawl now? Anyone else in town doing that yet? I swear KCCI had some text/weather stuff running one night a while back without dropping to SD to do so, but I could be wrong.

It was pleasing to the wife to be able to watch American Idol a couple of times at its regular time while the analog crowd had to wait a couple hours due to an Iowa basketball game. That was a quick dividend on our January HDTV purchase. :D

kc0bsn

11-15-07, 04:56 PM

Isn't KCCI using HD-capable squeeze & crawl now? Anyone else in town doing that yet? I swear KCCI had some text/weather stuff running one night a while back without dropping to SD to do so, but I could be wrong.
The squeeze component isn't there, but it is an HD keyer. Actually, the same piece of hardware that puts on the weather crawls during HD also puts on the KCCI-DT bug that you occasionally see during CBS primetime (not the static one at the bottom right of the screen, though, that's from a different source).

denyart

11-15-07, 06:47 PM

I think they are still the only one with a HD keyer. My big gripe that still remains is the difference in audio level across the networks. Channel 13 is by far the most offensive with a low enough audio level that it is downright annoying at times. I think it has gotten better lately. Perhaps someday they will all be broadcasting at a reference level across all stations so the volume control on my remote can take a rest ;)

kanderna

11-15-07, 08:07 PM

Anyone having issues with WHO OTA again tonight?

gutwrencher

11-15-07, 08:49 PM

OK, I know I've been out of the loop for a spell, but any info on WHEN the locals will be pumping through Direct? I was floored yesterday when I got my new sat dish and reciever and found NO OTA input....just 2 sat inputs. That was about the dumbest thing I had seen from DTV yet. So now I have the HD-OTA ant hooked up to the HDTV but NO 5.1 audio. How depressing.

Thanks in advance,
Todd Robertson

kanderna

11-15-07, 08:52 PM

gutwrencher

11-15-07, 08:57 PM

It's the brand new HR21-700. Piano-black gloss finish, little weight, lots of storage for recorded shows, I think 3 fans to keep it cool....great reciever. EXCEPT......arggghhhhh!!!!! NO OTA inputs!

I really wanted the nes HD channels and some are worth it....some not.

Oh, and I found some info concerning my question on page 97. Sorry, guess I was being lazy.

kanderna

11-15-07, 08:57 PM

Oh, and no real word on our locals. I think I've read 2Q 2008, but not 100% on that. Originally it was supposed to be sooner, but fell to the back burner for whatever reason.

kanderna

11-15-07, 08:59 PM

It's the brand new HR21-700. Piano-black gloss finish, little weight, lots of storage for recorded shows, I think 3 fans to keep it cool....great reciever. EXCEPT......arggghhhhh!!!!! NO OTA inputs!

I really wanted the nes HD channels and some are worth it....some not.

Ah yes... the HR21. Nice. That's a real bummer on the OTA. They need to reserve that thing for people who actually get their HD locals through DTV. It'll be nice once that time comes, but for now.... ugh!

gutwrencher

11-15-07, 09:00 PM

Oh, and no real word on our locals. I think I've read 2Q 2008, but not 100% on that. Originally it was supposed to be sooner, but fell to the back burner for whatever reason.

Yeah, I just saw that. Thanks for the response, kanderna.:)

gutwrencher

11-15-07, 09:05 PM

Ah yes... the HR21. Nice. That's a real bummer on the OTA. They need to reserve that thing for people who actually get their HD locals through DTV. It'll be nice once that time comes, but for now.... ugh!

I agree with that 100%. Still, I've waited this long, so waiting another year if need be should come easy.:rolleyes:

Actually, my Sony direct view 34XS955 has a decent audio system inside and it sounds rather good. Just no thumping bass when needed! It's not like I watch a ton of network TV. News, some sports and maybe a few primetime shows. I'll consider myself lucky that I'm getting ALL the locals in at a strong signal level. I've always been REAL lucky with that. Could be worse.

cornholio69

11-16-07, 11:48 AM

I just got off of a rather frustrating IM session with DishNetwork. They're telling me that if I just get the Americas Top 100 package, with the new VIP722, and don't get their HD package, that I would for some reason NOT be able to use the DVR's OTA capability. They're saying no HD package, no HD at all through their DVR.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

ankenyclone

11-17-07, 02:21 PM

nicholasmcgrew

11-17-07, 02:25 PM

More HD Mediacom?

I've never even talked to anybody at Mediacom that can tell me which channels they have in HD right now. I've figured it out by looking online and talking to people. I called up on 3 separate occasions, and no one would give me a list. :rolleyes:

kc0bsn

11-17-07, 02:29 PM

This is totally off-topic, but I just wanted to wish the thread a Happy 100th Birthday! :eek::D

scooter2002

11-17-07, 03:58 PM

I'd be delighted if MediaCom could actually deliver a hi-def box to me. I've been waiting since mid-September. I can't get a satellite connection so it's particularly frustrating.

ToddR

11-17-07, 05:45 PM

I found this on a cable news site. If true, we may actually get some new HD channels in 2007!!!

------

November 6, 2007

Mediacom Communications Corp. may have posted a disappointing quarter Tuesday, sending shares below a 52-week low, but the company is still pushing ahead with a plan to enhance its service portfolio, including a hefty expansion of high-definition television (HDTV) content in time for the 2007 holiday season.

Speaking Tuesday morning with reporters and analysts, EVP of operations John Pascarelli said Mediacom's "basic family cable" tier will offer between 30 to 40 hi-def channels for the added cost of the new set-top.

"We expect to announce the first phase of the new HD channels in the next 30 days," he said. With that being the first phase, I guess we can expect subsequent phases, which will be required to keep up with the beefy hi-def lineups DirecTV Group Inc. (NYSE: DTV - message board) and EchoStar Communications Corp. are flaunting.

Well, that would be impressive if they actually delivered on more HD offerings. I would think the D* & E* would take them to the woodshed given their lack of HD channels now if they didn't.

And idea if this deployment involves switched digital video (SDV)? Since I currently subscribe to "family cable," which is essentially all-analog except for a few clear QAM channels in there, would I be able to get a pair of CableCARDs for my TiVo HD without having to upgrade my cable subscription, paying only the card rentals? Surely they wouldn't be so gracious as not to force me to digital cable and/or an HD tier. The TiVo could perform as my "new set-top" as long as it's not SDV. Come on, TiVo, get that tuner resolver thing developed!

Can you provide a link? I'd love to post this in the Mediacom thread over at TiVoCommunity.

ankenyclone

11-17-07, 09:05 PM

Well, that would be impressive if they actually delivered on more HD offerings. I would think the D* & E* would take them to the woodshed given their lack of HD channels now if they didn't.

And idea if this deployment involves switched digital video (SDV)? Since I currently subscribe to "family cable," which is essentially all-analog except for a few clear QAM channels in there, would I be able to get a pair of CableCARDs for my TiVo HD without having to upgrade my cable subscription, paying only the card rentals? Surely they wouldn't be so gracious as not to force me to digital cable and/or an HD tier. The TiVo could perform as my "new set-top" as long as it's not SDV. Come on, TiVo, get that tuner resolver thing developed!

Can you provide a link? I'd love to post this in the Mediacom thread over at TiVoCommunity.

http://www.lightreading.com/blog.asp?blog_sectionid=419&doc_id=138388&site=cdn

gutwrencher

11-18-07, 10:31 PM

Just tuned into Sunday night football on 13.1 and no HD. Has this been happening since the start of the broadcast tonight?

cyclonedave

11-19-07, 08:09 AM

The game started in HD, but lost it sometime in the first half. The HD signal is still out this morning.

ToddR

11-19-07, 02:44 PM

I need a little background on what satellite customers in the Des Moines area do for HD reception of the local network affiliates. It's OTA via antenna or nothing, right? I assume it's going to be a while before there is enough satellite capacity for HD locals from a market the size of Des Moines to be carried on the birds.

I was chatting with a coworker this morning who just purchased an HDTV. She seemed to be telling me that she gets some sort of HD network feed over her satellite (DirecTV) but that it is not some other station, just the network feed.

I'm familiar with the distant network station waiver stuff, where a person is deemed too far from their local stations to expect an antenna to work, and can then obtain the New York or Los Angeles network affiliates from their sat. provider instead. But she lives in the city of Des Moines and surely doesn't have any such waiver.

There's no such thing as a network feed on satellite that isn't actually just the LA/NY affiliates' feed, right?

Is she just confusing her locals as provided on the satellite as HD? Obviously those are just the analog locals digitized by D* for their carriage, not the actual HD signals. She scoffed when I told her to try a $25 antenna to get the digital locals because she just didn't seem to think she needed it.

I submit that she's not currently tuning a local digital signal, be it SD or HD, except for the digitized version of the analog that D* provides. I don't think she will believe me unless I prove my case. :p

gutwrencher

11-19-07, 05:03 PM

Thanks, cyclonedave.

ToddR, it always freaks me out because I am a ToddR also. :)

I had no idea before getting the HR21 that there was no OTA input. I was a little miffed at first. I really like this new reciever and hooking the ant up to my HDTV directly worked well, minus the 5.1 audio through my system. Since I watch very little newtwork stuff aside from sports and a local news, I think I can bear to wait until things get rolling locally or until they offer an add-on that will allow me to hook the ant up to the reciever.

My HDTV has fairly decent audio....I can live....for now.

kanderna

11-19-07, 05:59 PM

I need a little background on what satellite customers in the Des Moines area do for HD reception of the local network affiliates. It's OTA via antenna or nothing, right? I assume it's going to be a while before there is enough satellite capacity for HD locals from a market the size of Des Moines to be carried on the birds.

DirecTV has announced that it is going to provide DSM locals in HD, but no firm date yet. Was supposed to be late this year, but got pushed back... maybe 2Q 08.

There's no such thing as a network feed on satellite that isn't actually just the LA/NY affiliates' feed, right?

AFAIK, that's 100% correct.

Is she just confusing her locals as provided on the satellite as HD? Obviously those are just the analog locals digitized by D* for their carriage, not the actual HD signals. She scoffed when I told her to try a $25 antenna to get the digital locals because she just didn't seem to think she needed it.

Not sure what she's thinking. Unless she (or her SO) has "moved" their service address. Then they may be getting the LA/NY feeds.

dline

11-22-07, 04:56 PM

For those of you who haven't found it yet, a consultant is floating the trial balloon of taking channels 6 and perhaps even 5 out of the TV band, and using the space to expand the FM radio band instead:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12287734#post12287734

This could have implications for WOI's plan to transmit on channel 5 at 3.91 kW for the rest of its post-analog shutoff life.

IgnoringMyWife

11-24-07, 08:10 AM

For those of you who might have missed The Incredibles in HD on NBC (OTA)Thankgiving evening, there is a replay tonight (11-24) at 7pm. I watched the tail-end of it Thursday night and it looked amazing... don't miss it.

Sawasdeecf

11-24-07, 03:56 PM

IgnoringMyWife

11-24-07, 08:05 PM

Has anyone else notice a lack of KDSMDT 17.1 since this past snow. I have only recieved the OTA signal on Thanksgiving night, but prior to that and since then I receive no signal on my HR20-700. :confused:

No problems in Des Moines. The signal strength is not that great though on 17.1. But it's been that way for a while, nothing to do with the snow I think.

gutwrencher

11-24-07, 09:34 PM

17.1 looks about how it always looks....not great...but not bad.

I'm just trying to live with my new problem overall. I can't watch a movie(non-local) or record one WITHOUT at least one or two audio stutters(not drops...think Max Headroom from the 80's) and at least once through the movie...a 2 second blackout of both audio and video. Usually on MGM-HD or HDNet Movies.

Sorry, I know it's not a "local" thing but just thought I'd vent to my "local" buds.:(

Sawasdeecf

11-24-07, 11:34 PM

Well 17.1 is back tonight. And with a signal strength around 74 to 78 on both OTA tuners on the H20-700. This is the same level I use to have prior to this past Wed snow fall. I haven't changed the location of my OTA attenna or reset the receiver, so I am left wondering about the signal for KDSMHD.

ToddR

12-01-07, 11:50 AM

The ice storm is having fun with OTA digital. I've lost KCCI & KDIN already.

kc0bsn

12-01-07, 11:52 AM

Yep, they're the casualties of the power outage @ Alleman. "Fun"! (not!) :P

jstiefel

12-01-07, 12:18 PM

The ice storm is having fun with OTA digital. I've lost KCCI & KDIN already.

as long as I don't lose WOI-5.1 for the Mizzou vs oU game tonight!

ToddR

12-01-07, 12:23 PM

as long as I don't lose WOI-5.1 for the Mizzou vs oU game tonight!

Even if they went off the air like they did for several days a few weeks ago, I suspect they'll still be on Mediacom QAM at 115.2 (or is it 115.4?) like they were during that OTA outage.

gutwrencher

12-01-07, 12:27 PM

Everything has been freakin' out today....glad my job cancelled at least.

I won't have to worry too much about it tonight though.....as long as I make it to the Knapp Center to see Drake and the Dukes in the championship game!

Peace,
Todd Robertson

denyart

12-01-07, 12:28 PM

I imagine the good news here could be that if it just a power outage, once they switch to "digital only" the big generator will keep that signal alive instead of the analog one.

ToddR

12-01-07, 12:45 PM

I imagine the good news here could be that if it just a power outage, once they switch to "digital only" the big generator will keep that signal alive instead of the analog one.

It would be interesting to know how much natural gas/propane/diesel it takes to run a transmitter site while grid power is out!

kc0bsn

12-01-07, 03:59 PM

More than I can afford. ;) Good news for Mediacom viewers, the 8.1 HD signal is back. We're using a backup satellite to receive the CBS HD signal. Power is back at Alleman, but we're having some trouble getting the digital transmitter to fire back up. I'll send updates as I get 'em.

mrphilby

12-01-07, 04:07 PM

hopefully it gets fixed soon! I'm quite annoyed at having to watch the vols in SD...

kanderna

12-01-07, 04:32 PM

hopefully it gets fixed soon! I'm quite annoyed at having to watch the vols in SD...

That's the ONLY way to watch the vols. :D

BigJ52

12-01-07, 06:12 PM

How about us none Medicom viewers any chance of getting 8.1 via OTA sometime today?

scooter2002

12-01-07, 07:08 PM

IPTV is back for me. Only KCCI is still out at this moment.

kc0bsn

12-01-07, 08:45 PM

We're still waiting on MidAmerican to fix the 3-phase power coming to the transmitter site. Power is back, but erratic. We'd rather hold off turning it back on until power steadies out than to turn it on and see it burst into flames. Flames are bad...

mrphilby

12-02-07, 09:39 AM

How about us none Medicom viewers any chance of getting 8.1 via OTA sometime today?

Do you mean OTA to the mediacom DVR so you can record?

I would say the chances are pretty small since they provide a HD feed. The reason directv has this option is the don't provide an HD feed of the local channels to all their customers.

However if your TV has a digital tuner (ATSC i think?) you can just hook an antenna up to it and receive all the locals OTA, regardless of your "cable" provider.

ToddR

12-02-07, 10:14 AM

Do you mean OTA to the mediacom DVR so you can record?

I would say the chances are pretty small since they provide a HD feed. The reason directv has this option is the don't provide an HD feed of the local channels to all their customers.

However if your TV has a digital tuner (ATSC i think?) you can just hook an antenna up to it and receive all the locals OTA, regardless of your "cable" provider.
I think BigJ52 was asking about when KCCI's OTA signal would be back on the air so that non-Mediacom users could tune it with an antenna. During much (or perhaps all?) of their OTA outage, KCCI continued to directly feed Mediacom its digital signal independent of their OTA status. (114-4 in clear QAM, I believe.) BigJ52 probably doesn't have Mediacom, so he would be affected by the OTA outage. We know it was a power issue thanks to kc0bsn's comments.

But you're right...the satellite companies lack the bandwidth at this time to carry the Des Moines locals in HD. We're about what, the 74th DMA? In a market that size, we're not going to be a top priority in HD local carriage vs. them adding more national channels.

All this marketing talk and monthly expense, but satellite customers here must still rely on an antenna to get the locals in HD.

I found this comment (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12371339#post12371339) about KWWL-DT's signal interesting. I wonder if KCCI and our other Des Moines locals have radomes or are they hanging out in the ice and subject to this automatic power reduction?

mrphilby

12-02-07, 10:19 AM

You're right todd - apparently it's too early for me to be responding to people's questions on the internet!

I've got 8-1 - but the signal is not as good as it usually is (although I was playing around a lot with my antenna last night to get 5-1 to come in, so it could have affected my reception for other channels)

kc0bsn

12-02-07, 06:23 PM

Hi all,

KCCI-DT returned for OTA viewers shortly after midnight when the power from MidAmerican was restored and stabilized. Right now, all things appear to have returned to normal with power @ 97%.

gutwrencher

12-02-07, 09:29 PM

THANKS! Yup...everything looks great right now.:D

loolan

12-04-07, 04:42 PM

According to a reliable source (the cable guy). Mediacom will add both stations at no additional cost if you have a HD cable box. No need to buy the HD package.

:)

scooter2002

12-04-07, 06:38 PM

According to a reliable source (the cable guy). Mediacom will add both stations at no additional cost if you have a HD cable box. No need to buy the HD package.

:)

MediaCom HD Cable box?

I think those things are mythological.

I've been waiting for one since early September. Everytime I call to ask it's "about 3 weeks away".

Since I do not have the proper exposure to get a satellite for DirecTV or DishNetwork I'm stuck perpetually waiting.

mikel51

12-04-07, 08:36 PM

Mediacom may not have HD cable boxes, but they probably have HD DVRs. Once you've had a DVR, you will never be satisfied with a simple box.

ToddR

12-04-07, 09:39 PM

How can they sell their HD tier if one cannot get an HD-capable cable box from them? Surely they don't expect all of those people to want the HD DVR, do they? (I agree they should have either, though having a DVR of some sort is the way to go.)

loolan

12-05-07, 04:08 PM

Mediacom replaced my 3rd Motorola w/ a new Pace. Works pretty well. Anyway, same news ESPN & ESPN2 HD will be included in the line up without HD package.

Their HD Package is a big joke...

:p

mikel51

12-05-07, 09:45 PM

What is the new pace? does it do HD? is it a DVR?

Although I always wish that there was more HD content, Mediacom in Des Moines has more HD channels available than comcast did in the San Francisco area when I moved here at the beginning of 2005.

Do Dish or DirectTV do better. For me, it is pretty important to get the network feeds in HD, and AFAIK--mediacom is the only option. I don't want to put up an external antenna, and I wasted a bunch of time and money on indoor antennas when mediacom lost their fox access.

fireshoes

12-06-07, 08:03 PM

denyart

12-06-07, 09:26 PM

As he mentioned the satellites don't do local ATSC feeds without an antenna. In my opinion the >75 channels of HD is a bunch of **** if you can't get the stuff you want in HD. I'm not really sure how many of those HD channels anyone would watch. I for one am more interested in content rather than merely the number of channels. I also detest the cable line that their HD on demand somehow counts. None of this is a valid comparison to what people actually want. They want the shows they watch that are available in HD to be in HD at their display. For this reason I still vote for cable since it has the networks (for the most part), but that is mostly because I watch network TV. I also use an antenna for my locals, so honestly I don't get much else from cable at this point.

kanderna

12-06-07, 10:16 PM

No locals HD for Des Moines yet on Dish or Directv, but Cedar Rapids got announced as one of Directv's next 11 local markets to get HD, albeit by mid-2008. Hopefully we are not far behind. Otherwise both satellite companies crush Mediacom's paltry offerings. Mediacom has 11 stations excluding locals. Dish Network and Directv are both over 75.

We shouldn't be far behind on DTV... DSM was already announced some time ago, so I would hope we go before them. We were originally supposed to launch this fall, but got pushed back. No reliable word on the new date.

Yikes... here is the press release from 10/06!!!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/10/10/directv-adds-hd-locals-in-25-markets/

Krunchie

12-12-07, 07:49 PM

We shouldn't be far behind on DTV... DSM was already announced some time ago, so I would hope we go before them. We were originally supposed to launch this fall, but got pushed back. No reliable word on the new date.

Yikes... here is the press release from 10/06!!!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/10/10/directv-adds-hd-locals-in-25-markets/

My only question is going to be just what channels will D* carry. I hear they're not big into including .2's and so forth... so I'm guessing KCCI Weather Now will be out... and if they'll carry KDMI too... and I about forgot about KDIN's multicasting (and how it might expand after the conversion too).

kanderna

12-12-07, 08:52 PM

My only question is going to be just what channels will D* carry. I hear they're not big into including .2's and so forth... so I'm guessing KCCI Weather Now will be out... and if they'll carry KDMI too... and I about forgot about KDIN's multicasting (and how it might expand after the conversion too).

That's a good point. Probably a good bet that the other subs won't be carried. I've never seen anyone post anything about that when talking about other markets. Of course, haven't really been looking either.

dline

12-12-07, 09:06 PM

Of course they can't carry anything from KDMI/KCWI without Pappas' blessing, so you'd have to figure in how hard Pappas wants to fight to get both My 56.1 and CW 23 as part of the package.

mrphilby

12-17-07, 08:51 AM

kanderna

12-17-07, 09:18 AM

Got a funny voicemail from Mediacom this weekend - apparently they had a drawing for all their internet only customers, and I won 78 free cable channels for a year! They wanted me to call them back to set up a time they could come out and install it...

I wish I would have actually answered the phone, although now that I think about it, maybe I should call them back if they'll remove the stupid $10/mo "Internet Only" fee...

Nice! When they are at your house, send them over to my place to bury the cable that was installed in July! My neighbor's was installed the same day as mine, and his was buried 2 months ago. I've called multiple times and they keep telling me they are entering a work order, but I never hear anything. Once they gave me a number to call... when I called it, I got the utilities locating service for the state of GA.

denyart

12-17-07, 02:58 PM

HEy, I bet all they do is remove your filter to allow analog cable back through. They will still charge you the $10/month, but they will entice you to keep those channels for just $40/month more after the year.

dadunix3

12-17-07, 09:18 PM

I know it has been discussed here before but I am a newbie with HD content and DishTV and want to confirm things.

Am I correct that DishTV does not offer any of the local Des Moines locals in HD yet? I called them and they did not seem to know for sure...not very knowledgeable.

If so, can anyone guess when it will be available? I may wait to buy an HD set as much of the sports in HD are located on CBS and FOX along with the shows my wife would watch. If I cannot get the locals in HD from DishTV, then I lose much of my HD programming I would watch.

I checked into using an antenna to get the locals in HD but it seems I am too far away from their towers..about 75 miles. We live in north-central Iowa. Anyone have any success with that distance before?

One more....Why can Mediacom offer the local DSM channels in HD and not DishTV and DirectTV?

Thanks.

denyart

12-18-07, 08:17 PM

Because they can just get the signal (either with an antenna or through a direct feed) and push it into open space in the QAM spectrum in each market. The Dish companies have limited bandwidth that is shared with the whole country (sort of).

kanderna

12-28-07, 12:26 PM

Response from D* when I asked them status on their 2006 announcements of Des Moines locals in HD:

...we appreciate your loyalty. We had hoped to be able to offer HD local channels in your area by now and I’m sorry that we haven’t been able to. Our newest HD-capable receivers have been more popular than we expected. As a result, we’ve had to slow down our timetable for offering HD locals in new markets until we feel like we’ve got enough equipment to meet the demand.

I know how important HD programming is to you and I assure you that we are doing our best to bring more of it to you as soon as possible. We hope to be able to announce a new start date for HD local channels in Des Moines-Ames IA soon.

I responded and let him know that I understood his explanation, but that it didn't make a lot of sense considering the recent announcement of 76 additional local markets in HD by mid-2008. I'll post if I receive a response.

BigJ52

12-30-07, 10:56 AM

Signal keeps breaking up for me anyone else having the same problem? All the other local OTA's are working fine.

mbennum

01-02-08, 03:17 PM

Got a funny voicemail from Mediacom this weekend - apparently they had a drawing for all their internet only customers, and I won 78 free cable channels for a year! They wanted me to call them back to set up a time they could come out and install it...

I wish I would have actually answered the phone, although now that I think about it, maybe I should call them back if they'll remove the stupid $10/mo "Internet Only" fee...

Funny, they called me up on Monday and said because I was a "long time valued customer" they were offering me basic cable for free and wanted to schedule a time to come hook it up. I laughed and asked the guy how that worked, since I just had cable Inet hooked up less than a month ago. Anyway I told them not to bother, Dish was working out just fine for me. :D

kanderna

01-07-08, 02:46 PM

Another reply from D*:

Dear Mr. kanderna,

Thank you for writing about the HD local availability. I am sorry that you do not have the HD locals in your market of Des Moines-Ames IA area yet. I will be glad to look into this for you today.

We had hoped to be able to offer HD local channels in your area by now and I’m sorry that we haven’t been able to. We would love to provide HD locals for all DIRECTV customers but satellite capacity doesn’t allow us to do that yet. However, we continue to expand our HD capacity and hope to offer them in your area in the near future.

Meanwhile, you may be able to get your local channels in HD by installing an off-air antenna. While we do not offer these, an electronics retailer should be able to recommend one for you.

I know how important HD programming is to you and I assure you that we are doing our best to bring more of it to you as soon as possible. We hope to be able to announce a new start date for HD local channels in Des Moines-Ames, IA soon.

I do see that Cedar Rapids / Waterloo, IA should be receiving HD Locals in early Feb 2008 according to the information in the system. I am hopeful you will have them soon. I do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused due to the delay in receiving these HD Locals.

Thanks for writing.

Same canned response with some added garbage. So frustrating that CR will end up with HD locals before us, considering we were announced on 10/06.

ankenyclone

01-13-08, 03:56 PM

dave999

01-14-08, 08:24 PM

I e-mailed Mediacom customer service this morning to inquire about why they are running these new commercials stating they carry great channels in HD like "ESPN, ESPN2, Discovery, TNT, TBS, and CNN." When I first saw the commercial I ran to check if TNT, TBS, and CNN had been added, but they are not there. Their marketing strategy must now be to get people signed on under the assumption they will get all these channels, then pull the old switcheroo on them when the installer actually shows up. I will post any reply I receive, although it will likely be a similar response stating they hope to offer those channels in the future. :mad:

I was about to call and check the same thing. Complete BS advertising.

I did call, and the rep said they weren't familiar with the commercial. The rep checked with a 'supervisor' in my area, who indicated that they should be showing up 'any day now', that's why they are running the promos in des moines. uh huh, sure. As soon as the new OTA add-on to the HD-DVR from directv starts shipping (hopefully february), then I'm dumping mediacom cable, keeping just internet.

ankenyclone

01-16-08, 04:00 PM

I was about to call and check the same thing. Complete BS advertising.

I did call, and the rep said they weren't familiar with the commercial. The rep checked with a 'supervisor' in my area, who indicated that they should be showing up 'any day now', that's why they are running the promos in des moines. uh huh, sure. As soon as the new OTA add-on to the HD-DVR from directv starts shipping (hopefully february), then I'm dumping mediacom cable, keeping just internet.

According to the lady at Mediacom I talked to today, they have "jumped the gun" on the advertisments. She stated that those three channels, and some more too, would be added by the end of January. I did confirm that she meant January 2008. She said they just got a memo and she remembers also USA and Lifetime. She thought there would be 12 channels in total added, but couldn't remember which ones.

ToddR

01-16-08, 06:57 PM

According to the lady at Mediacom I talked to today, they have "jumped the gun" on the advertisments. She stated that those three channels, and some more too, would be added by the end of January. I did confirm that she meant January 2008. She said they just got a memo and she remembers also USA and Lifetime. She thought there would be 12 channels in total added, but couldn't remember which ones.

Who are these idiots over there? Customer service reps and their management alike.

I'm sorry, but when a customer calls and asks specific information about channel lineups or rollout information, it should be immediately given and done so accurately. This notion about "yeah, we're gettin' some channels, not sure when, not sure what," is unacceptable. It's not water cooler talk; it's your product!

nicholasmcgrew

01-16-08, 07:00 PM

Who are these idiots over there? Customer service reps and their management alike.

I'm sorry, but when a customer calls and asks specific information about channel lineups or rollout information, it should be immediately given and done so accurately. This notion about "yeah, we're gettin' some channels, not sure when, not sure what," is unacceptable. It's not water cooler talk; it's your product!

I've called on several occasions to get the HD Channel listing and on 3 separate occasions, they said they didn't know. 1 person finally gave me a line about the "locals, and a few others."

That is something that should be standard info, easy to give out and even on their web page.

scott72

01-16-08, 07:19 PM

The problem is they add channels depending on the markets. Des Moines might get those channels (eventually), but the rest of us in smaller markets probably aren't going to get anything. I think that's where the CSR's are confused. No one knows what's going to be added and in what market. Quite a chaotic company.

WhatHappend

01-17-08, 02:22 AM

According to the lady at Mediacom I talked to today, they have "jumped the gun" on the advertisments. She stated that those three channels, and some more too, would be added by the end of January. I did confirm that she meant January 2008. She said they just got a memo and she remembers also USA and Lifetime. She thought there would be 12 channels in total added, but couldn't remember which ones.
Guide listings showed up for 12 new channels on my TVGOS DVR with Mediacom cable card (no channels active yet though). Since the rep. above said 12 new HD channels and these show up this week it might be the list.

HISTD
FOODHD
TBSHD
FBN
NFLHD
TLSHD
SCFIHD
GMCH
APHD
CNNHD
DSCHD

iowahawkeye

01-17-08, 07:28 AM

I was about to call and check the same thing. Complete BS advertising.

I did call, and the rep said they weren't familiar with the commercial. The rep checked with a 'supervisor' in my area, who indicated that they should be showing up 'any day now', that's why they are running the promos in des moines. uh huh, sure. As soon as the new OTA add-on to the HD-DVR from directv starts shipping (hopefully february), then I'm dumping mediacom cable, keeping just internet.Not suprised at all . Can still remember the mediacom rep telling the Iowa City Tele' commission when 8/512 HSI would be up and running. He was only off FIVE months. :( I guess the good thing is mediacom is moving forward....slowly.

brown8

01-17-08, 01:49 PM

Guide listings showed up for 12 new channels on my TVGOS DVR with Mediacom cable card (no channels active yet though). Since the rep. above said 12 new HD channels and these show up this week it might be the list.

HISTD
FOODHD
TBSHD
FBN
NFLHD
TLSHD
SCFIHD
GMCH
APHD
CNNHD
DSCHD

The TVGOS listings are by market, not by provider. Comcast in the Twin Cities recently added the above channels, along with others. That is my guess why they finally showed up in the listings.

DuckmanMN

01-17-08, 02:19 PM

I live in the Twin Cities - and reading this thread, I decided to call Mediacom to see if they are going to add the channels to my system as well as Des Moines. The CSR told me that ALL of Mediacom is going to get this update by the end of the month....not one specific area.

I also went to the Mediacom corporate site to check the channel line-up. After inputting my zip code I received the message:

"We are sorry. A channel line-up is not yet available for your community. Please check back at a later date."

I input a Des Moines zip code, picked Des Moines (I went to Drake University...GO BULLDOGS), then Polk, both had the same message. I wonder if they are updating the site with the new channel line-up???

I guess we'll see...I have had good news given to me by Mediacom CSR's before...only to be disappointed.

--Duckman