Sorry, I stand corrected. The 6208 does have a repeating recording feature. You can tell it to record a show at a certain time repeating every day, week, or monday through friday. I don't know if that is the same as how the TiVo unit works, but it seems ok for me. The Hard Disk capacity leaves something to be desired, but the firewire output lets you archive old material to a DVHS tape or computer quite easily. To my knowledge no satellite receivers offer Firewire connectivity.

I see. Still not an ideal solution for me. Tivo lets you select shows to record based on whether its a new show or rerun and will record correctly even if there is a scheduling change. Its convenient for me because I don't have to track when shows are on or add/delete times when its out of season. I also tend to keep a lot of stuff on the drive, so the 6208's small capacity is a big minus for me. Its really too bad that the 6208 isn't a more polished product. I think I'll probably go with the non-DVR unit until Mediacom has a better unit or there are standalone products available.

I e-mailed Channel Master tech support and they suggested testing the analog channels. I get NBC pretty well as well as CBS and PBS. ABC doesn't come in too well. Are the digital towers in different locations? I'm not sure why the HD channels don't come in well.
He suggested that if the analog signal has ghosting, that I should get a more directional antenna. What do you recommend? I live on Park Avenue in Des Moines and am 19 miles away from the NBC tower.

Dave

Originally posted by dsm363
I e-mailed Channel Master tech support and they suggested testing the analog channels. I get NBC pretty well as well as CBS and PBS. ABC doesn't come in too well. Are the digital towers in different locations? I'm not sure why the HD channels don't come in well.
He suggested that if the analog signal has ghosting, that I should get a more directional antenna. What do you recommend? I live on Park Avenue in Des Moines and am 19 miles away from the NBC tower.

Dave

All of Des Moines' digital channels are on UHF (for now), so VHF channels 8, 11, and 13 analog are probably not the best benchmarks. Analog UHF channels 17 and 23, both of which transmit from Alleman, are much better indicators.

If I remember correctly, most of the digital stations are generally going to settle in Alleman where most of the analogs are (in fact, the newest, northernmost tower was built largely for digital transmitters). The only stations I can think of who are transmitting from different sites are PAX (somewhere in Jasper County) and WOI-DT digital (which I'm told is very low power from their Westown Parkway studios).

I lived in Ankeny and was able to get WOI-DT with bunny ears, so I think they are actually in Alleman. (probably on the roof of Farmer Browns old pull barn transmitting)

The latest info has their transmitter on the water tower next to Merle
Hay Mall. This might have changed.

Count yourself lucky, you are only the second person to report actually receiving WOI-DT through any means.

If they are broadcasting from Merle Hay, that would be pretty sad since we can't pick up their signal at American, which is just the next exit up the road.

Originally posted by jtuck2
The latest info has their transmitter on the water tower next to Merle
Hay Mall. This might have changed.

Count yourself lucky, you are only the second person to report actually receiving WOI-DT through any means.
If they still insist on doing low power, they might want to move it up I-35 about 30 miles or so. Last I checked, their city of license was still Ames. And last time I was in Ames, Samsung box and Silver Sensor in tow, not a blip from 5-1/59-1 even as WHO-DT and KCCI-DT pegged the meter.

any questions on how much cable cost with HD here is a good web site to figure it. includes high speed also
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat17700050096&type=category


Andrew

I have the 4bay Channel Master 3021 and the tech guy there recommened the 8bay antenna as it is more directional. Can anyone recommend a smaller antenna or should I look at an amplifier? I do have a cheap radioshak 10db amplifier but it seems to do nothing to the signal strength. I think Channel Master makes a 22db one.

dsm363, I'm in a similar situation. I just bought a Samsung 151 on Ebay this past weekend in hopes of getting digital Fox (for football season) & PBS. So far out of the digital channels, I can only get CBS and NBC via rabit ears from my basement, and I already have both of those channels from Mediacom. I live near 142nd and Hickman in Urbandale.

From some limited research, I've found a couple of things that might turn out to be helpful. This small indoor UHF antenna has many good reviews on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006FXR9/
I think I'm going to give it a try and see what happens (unless one of you can tell me why I shouldn't). I'll report back in a week or two.

Also, this site is handy in that it can give good info on distance, direction, antenna type needed, uhf vs vhf, etc:
http://www.antennaweb.org

I've used the antennaweb link before and it's a really useful site. The one I have should work and is actually the antenna I bought to replace the one on Amazon's site (like the Silver Sensor) so I'm not sure why I'm having such a hard time getting a decent signal. You would think with such a large antenna and being in the Des Moines city limits that it wouldn't be too hard. Hopefully I can find an antenna that works. Thanks.

Dave

Dave, Sounds like you know what you're doing better than I do.

Just got the Zenith Silver Sensor from Amazon in the mail today (even though I ordered the Gemini thing which looks identical). I can get Fox w/ it at about 1/3rd strength (I'd guess it might cut out some if I stay on the channel for a while). Also, I'm getting both CBS and NBC at about 2/3rds strength. I'm not getting a PBS signal on channel 50, which seems strange based on what antennaweb was telling me. Is PBS not broadcasting all the time or something?

Not sure if I should get an inline amplifier, might go ahead and at least test drive the cheap 10db one from Radio Shack.

I finally broke down and ordered the Winegard SquareShooter (SS-1000). I was hoping to avoid an expensive antenna but if it works, it'll be worth it.

I think you guys have something else going on here. How is your cabling to your antenna? IMO those expensive antenna are overkill.

I have a plain jane UHF/VHF/FM RCA antenna (sold by Home Depot) and a 20db powered inline amp from Radio Shack. It is hanging in the attic of my garage. I live between Knoxville and Pella and get CBS and NBC consistently in the high 90's. My Fox is in the high 70's to low 80's. You guys are much closer to Alleman than I am.

PBS is not broadcasting on Channel 50, I haven't seen it on in quite a while. They have in the past turned it on during state fair, I think they have a demo booth somewhere on the fairgrounds, showing the HD vs. non-HD signal.

Originally posted by jtuck2
I think you guys have something else going on here. How is your cabling to your antenna? IMO those expensive antenna are overkill.

I have a plain jane UHF/VHF/FM RCA antenna (sold by Home Depot) and a 20db powered inline amp from Radio Shack. It is hanging in the attic of my garage. I live between Knoxville and Pella and get CBS and NBC consistently in the high 90's. My Fox is in the high 70's to low 80's. You guys are much closer to Alleman than I am.
I lack the amp and am down in the basement. Maybe your antenna is better. My cable should be fine, but I'll try a different one tonight and see if it helps. Based on antennaweb, it appears that Fox should be hard for me to get very well with an indoor antenna. That said, I'm not going to go put an antenna on the roof or in the attic, as that would be difficult to achieve in my situation. I'll either try an amp, live with it as is or maybe ditch it before long (especially if Mediacom starts picking up digital Fox anytime soon).

Originally posted by jtuck2
PBS is not broadcasting on Channel 50, I haven't seen it on in quite a while. They have in the past turned it on during state fair, I think they have a demo booth somewhere on the fairgrounds, showing the HD vs. non-HD signal.
Thanks.

The basement would definitely complicate things. I would try the amp. Is it impossible to get it outside somewhere? That would sure have to help.

is abc dt possible to pick up at all???

Picking up NBC and CBS but not great signal strength...KDSM DT nothing...

Thinking about buying a new outdoor antenna..what should I buy. I live in Boone


Thanks in advance

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I had the silver sensor and thought it wouldn't be a problem but was only getting signal in the low 70s that would cut out from time to time. So I went with the Channel Master 3021 (4 bay) antenna and put in outdoors and I'm pretty much getting the same signal strength, maybe 10% better. I have 50' cable running to the antenna but no amp.
I agree, there must be something wrong with my setup since I live on Park Avenue and other people farther away seem to get good reception with much smaller antennas.

Dave

ABC DT (Channel 59) has only been picked up by a couple of people. It is extremely low power. All indications are that it will remain extremely low power for the forseeable future. Since they are occupying a frequency they cannot keep, they are not going to sink money into a high power transmitter.

KDSM doesn't seem to have as long of a broadcast day as KCCI and WHO. I am not sure when they actually flip the switch on the digital channel, but it isn't too early in the day. Check them again during prime time.

I hate messing with antenna. It always seems like some kind of black art aiming them. Definitely should try the powered amp Dave. It solved many of the same problems for me. Also helped the FM signals too. I can pick up Iowa City/Coralville FM station now. I bought the Radio Shack amp, they take everything back if it doesn't work for you. I think it was in the $20 neighborhood.

Have a good weekend.

Well, my Winegard SquareShooter shipped so I'll let everyone know when it gets here if it's really hype or not. I think this will be a good test case but I'll be surprised if it actually works.

Dave

Originally posted by jtuck2
ABC DT (Channel 59) has only been picked up by a couple of people. It is extremely low power. All indications are that it will remain extremely low power for the forseeable future. Since they are occupying a frequency they cannot keep, they are not going to sink money into a high power transmitter.

Keep in mind, the out-of-core assignment for WOI-DT (59) is only part of the story. There are a couple of stations in Cedar Rapids (KCRG-DT 52 and KWWL-DT 55) and at least one in Davenport (KWQC-DT 56) with out-of-core assignments, yet they're actually putting out signals people can get.

[Rant mode on]
The big difference is that, with WOI-TV, the effort on everything seems to have gone downhill from its peak in the late 80s -- in news, programming, and now DT. Since being sold, I can't think of anything they've accomplished besides moving twice -- to Des Moines and then to West Des Moines -- as if merely moving out of Ames would put them in the same league as 8 and 13. It seems they were more in that league when ISU owned them.
[/Rant mode off]

Interesting thing I just saw on woitv.com:

A link on the homepage says they're planning to air extended convention coverage from ABC on WOI-DT 59 ... but their announcement begins, "With ABC News anchor Peter Jennings at the helm, Lincoln viewers will be able to watch expanded coverage of the Democratic and Republican National Conventions."

Oops.

Then again, it may explain why nobody in Ames or Des Moines is getting their signal.

(EDIT: Just checked back 7-26-04; they have changed their site to say "central Iowa viewers.")

I have long ago given up on WOI. I watch Monday Night Football and any other NFL coverage they have (ie: playoff games) and then turn them off.

It has been obvious to several of us that WOI does not care about viewership. They seem to be content to be #3. Honestly, I feel like they are #4 behind KDSM. I watch them more than WOI.

WOI is doing the absolute minimum that is mandated to comply with the FCC digital rollout schedule. They seem to be content with that.

I honestly have little hope that KDSM will be on time with their HD rollout for football season. I know they have promised it, but I will believe it when I see it.

Enjoy the Olympics, if they are anything like the 2002 winter Olympics they will be spectacular. That was WHO's first use of the digital channel, and happened to coincide with my completion of the theater.

Well, after 10 minutes of messing around with it, I can get the SquareShooter to lock into CBS in a steady signal level of 78 without cutouts (didn't do that with the Channel Master 3021) but can't get any kind of good consistent signal with NBC. I mainly watch shows on NBC so this is more important to me. I even had a 10dB amp but that didn't seem in increase the signal at all. Is there something I'm missing or do I just happen to live in the wrong place to get NBC? Thanks.

Dave

Well, I figured out that if I lean over the balcony with the SS1000, I get NBC great but now I need to figure out how to mount something like that. I guess that means that my $25 antenna would have probably done the trick too.

Ok, this is kind of funny. The mount that comes with the SquareShooter 1000 allows it to lean out so I was able to have the SS1000 dangle over the side of the balcony about a foot to get a clear line of sight around the apartment building. Problem was, I need an additional 10" or so to get a good signal with the SquareShooter so I figured I'd build some kind of extender. I unhooked the SquareShooter and for kicks, mounted the Channel Master 3021 in this new holder and get consistent NBC ad CBS in the 80s. So now I don't think I'll be able to return the SquareShooter since I used the bracket and all. Anyway, I've got NBC but it cost me a pretty penny to figure this all out. I thought the SquareShooter was supposed to handle reflections for buildings and such. Oh well.
--
I also get 4 different IPTV channels (the regular satellite one, KDINDT (doesn't come in), KDINHD (works fine), and KDINSD4 (works at times). The HD version doesn't seem to have any program guide data. Is this IPTV not broadcasting it or is this with DirecTV?

Just a note if anyone hasn't noticed... IPTV appears to be on and broadcasting again...or at least they were while I was writing this. They're probably no doubt testing to make sure things go well with the fair.

Interesting thing, though, they're only sending out 11-1. That's fine by me, the last time I caught them, there were 4 sub channels and my receiver always locked up when on anything but 11-1.

i got all the subchannels on IPTV...

anyone get KDSM-DT?? still can't get that one to come in...

Originally posted by jtuck2
The basement would definitely complicate things. I would try the amp. Is it impossible to get it outside somewhere? That would sure have to help.

Just received this 25db amp:
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=2402&sku=41001

Receiving KCCI and WHO a little better than before, and now also getting KDSM at similar singal strength readings to the other channels (about twice as many SIR-T151 signal strength bars as I was getting for KDSM before the amp). I'm bouncing around between 9-10 bars on the SIR-T151 signal strength meter for all 3 channels now, looks like there might be a maximum of 12 bars possible. I'm not sure if you can directly translate the bars to a signal strength percentage.

Basement is finished w/ no easy access to the outside or upstairs, but I think I've got it working pretty good now. Also, I'm on a hill w/ a half framed wall to the east, so the basement may not be that big of a complication in my case.

How does that amp compare to the ones from Channel Master or does it matter? Thanks.

Dave

I dunno. Was just looking for a decent price on a 25db amp, and that's what I was able to find.

long time lurker, but first time to post.

We have a new t165 on a set of cheap rabbit ears. I have a D* dish outside, but no access to attic. Also, community doesn't allow any outside antenna except dish.

I have one of those 'curls around and clamps' terk dish antennas still in the box, should I try it? The rabbit ears are worthless.

I live in Johnston, with only southern exposure for antenna mounting.

Did anyone see this?
http://ir.thomsonfn.com/InvestorRelations/PubNewsStory.aspx?partner=5276&storyId=118148

I wonder if this means they will carry local NBC in HD? This would solve my antenna reception problem.

alot of talk on this Olympic deal on other forums. I think we will be able to get it. Also BravoHD looks to be coming as well.


Slatimer

Also sounds like ABCHD might be coming to DirecTV in the near future and I am sure we will be able to get waivers since our ABC is so good. lol

Originally posted by Michael Gwynn
long time lurker, but first time to post.

We have a new t165 on a set of cheap rabbit ears. I have a D* dish outside, but no access to attic. Also, community doesn't allow any outside antenna except dish.

I have one of those 'curls around and clamps' terk dish antennas still in the box, should I try it? The rabbit ears are worthless.

I live in Johnston, with only southern exposure for antenna mounting.
I got fairly good results with an indoor Silver Sensor from Ames even with another house in the way (though KDSM was a challenge), and for Cedar Rapids there's a place where my Silver Sensor works even from an area of my apartment building facing AWAY from the towers, most of which are about 20-25 miles from me.

Haven't heard too much good about those clip-ons, and since dishes point south it's probably a long shot, but if you have one there's no harm in trying.

Also, depending on what kind of "community" you live in, their rules against antennas may not be valid. Try checking this link:
http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html

Originally posted by slatimer
Also sounds like ABCHD might be coming to DirecTV in the near future and I am sure we will be able to get waivers since our ABC is so good. lol
IIRC, waivers are currently based on the analog signal, so you probably couldn't get one if you can get analog channel 5. :(

There are bills in Congress, discussed in more detail in the "HDTV Programming" section, which would allow sat companies to provide distant DT signals (presumably HD, since they're probably coming from a big city like New York) to people who are unserved by an affiliate's DT signal.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, none of these bills are final yet. And unfortunately for you, one of these bills has a provision which states that if you're expected to get a signal from a station, yet that station isn't serving you yet for "noneconomic circumstances beyond their control", you are NOT considered "unserved."

I would think that WOI-DT's decision to pump out 500 watts has a good chance to "NOT" be considered "noneconomic circumstances beyond their control", seeing as other Iowa stations in their boat ARE putting out quality signals, but all bets are off when lawyers get involved. (Keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer.)

Also, it appears being "unserved" has nothing to do with HDTV -- if you can get a digital signal from a network station, even if it's 480i SD, you're probably screwed when it comes to HD. Indeed, the bill I read didn't even mention HDTV at all.

Bottom line: I don't think an ABC waiver is a sure thing in Des Moines.

Well, for some odd reason, I got unsubscribed to this thread. Will someone please post when they get Iptv in Hd, last year it was on 50.01, maybe things changed.

It seems their website that has the dtv sign up doesn't work, I don't get a responce anyway.

Thanks in advance

Mark

Posters on the Siouxland and Eastern Iowa threads say IPTV was transmitting Monday night on KSIN-DT (Sioux City) and KRIN-DT (Waterloo-Cedar Rapids). I wasn't home to verify this, and KRIN wasn't up Tuesday at noon. But if they are testing more than just KDIN-DT it sounds like a hopeful sign.

I just got up an running with Des Moines OTA HDTV locals. I've got the new DirecTV HD Tivo and I really like it so far. I am out in Clive, just off Hickman Road towards Waukee (west of the Interstate). I am using the Radio Shack double bow tie antenna indoors. Here are my signal strengths: FOX: 77, WHO: 91, KCCI: 62, KDIN: 0, WOI: 15 (very sporadic).

My question is: are these good (typical) strengths? WHO is completely solid for me. FOX and KCCI break up now and then. Would this be a good application for a preamp? I know that WOI is a lost cause, so I am assuming there is little I can do to improve that one?

Thank you!

Originally posted by jeffcarp
I just got up an running with Des Moines OTA HDTV locals. I've got the new DirecTV HD Tivo and I really like it so far. I am out in Clive, just off Hickman Road towards Waukee (west of the Interstate). I am using the Radio Shack double bow tie antenna indoors. Here are my signal strengths: FOX: 77, WHO: 91, KCCI: 62, KDIN: 0, WOI: 15 (very sporadic).

My question is: are these good (typical) strengths? WHO is completely solid for me. FOX and KCCI break up now and then. Would this be a good application for a preamp? I know that WOI is a lost cause, so I am assuming there is little I can do to improve that one?

Thank you!

I must live pretty close to where you do (I'm near 142nd and Hickman), and a 25db amp helped me to get KDSM much better. I already had KCCI and WHO coming in pretty good, and it helped those channels a bit too. Sorry I don't have actual signal strength %'s. Also, I'm using the Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Here's my post from a week ago in case you didn't already see it...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jtuck2
The basement would definitely complicate things. I would try the amp. Is it impossible to get it outside somewhere? That would sure have to help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just received this 25db amp:
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.a...=2402&sku=41001

Receiving KCCI and WHO a little better than before, and now also getting KDSM at similar singal strength readings to the other channels (about twice as many SIR-T151 signal strength bars as I was getting for KDSM before the amp). I'm bouncing around between 9-10 bars on the SIR-T151 signal strength meter for all 3 channels now, looks like there might be a maximum of 12 bars possible. I'm not sure if you can directly translate the bars to a signal strength percentage.

Basement is finished w/ no easy access to the outside or upstairs, but I think I've got it working pretty good now. Also, I'm on a hill w/ a half framed wall to the east, so the basement may not be that big of a complication in my case.

Originally posted by statman
I must live pretty close to where you do (I'm near 142nd and Hickman), and a 25db amp helped me to get KDSM much better. I already had KCCI and WHO coming in pretty good, and it helped those channels a bit too. Sorry I don't have actual signal strength %'s. Also, I'm using the Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Here's my post from a week ago in case you didn't already see it...

Very close.....152nd and Hickman. I just ordered the Silver Sensor to replace the Radio Shack double bow tie that I have now. I get decent reception now, but KCCI does break up now and then. The KCCI engineer that I emailed told me that they are not yet operating at full power output, while WHO is. He said by October they will be at full power so that may be the reason that I get WHO at a higher strength than KCCI yet they are right next to each other.

So, after I get my Silver Sensor, I will see what that does to me, then try an amp if I need to. Hopefully I can keep from adding an exterior antenna.

Thanks!

Just saw this on the IPTV website, and also in the Siouxland and Eastern Iowa threads:

"... Iowa Public Television, Iowa's only statewide television network, will begin full-time digital broadcasting to homes in the Des Moines, Sioux City, and Cedar Rapids/Waterloo areas with live, high-definition coverage of the Iowa State Fair parade Wednesday, August 11 at 6:30 p.m ..."

More reason to be hopeful.

Even more reason to be hopeful:

Looks like the FCC adopted a new full-power deadline for stations intending to maximize their DT facilities at Wednesday's meeting.

Here's a link to the press release (in Acrobat format):
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-250542A1.pdf

It's also discussed in the AVS forum thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429942 .

The Report and Order adopted Wednesday also sets forth the process for stations like WOI which have out-of-core digitals AND low-VHF analogs, in case they'd rather not go back to 5 when the transition is finished. But it also looks like they have less than a year to bump up the power.

Originally posted by dline
Just saw this on the IPTV website, and also in the Siouxland and Eastern Iowa threads:

"... Iowa Public Television, Iowa's only statewide television network, will begin full-time digital broadcasting to homes in the Des Moines, Sioux City, and Cedar Rapids/Waterloo areas with live, high-definition coverage of the Iowa State Fair parade Wednesday, August 11 at 6:30 p.m ..."

More reason to be hopeful.

Here's the full release we received at American.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
August 3, 2004
Contact: Jennifer Glover Konfrst
(515) 242-3146

Iowa Public Television Presents State’s Only High-Definition Live Local Broadcast
IPTV Kicks Off Local Digital Programming with Live Coverage of the Iowa State Fair Parade

(Johnston, Iowa) – Iowa Public Television, Iowa’s only statewide television network, will begin full-time digital broadcasting to homes in the Des Moines, Sioux City, and Cedar Rapids/Waterloo areas with live, high-definition coverage of the Iowa State Fair parade Wednesday, August 11 at 6:30 p.m. Iowa Public Television is the only network in the state to broadcast live, local digital television.

The network, already a leader in digital television broadcasting in the state, will showcase locally-produced programming on IPTV-Digital for the duration of the Fair, and will continue broadcasting digitally in these markets. IPTV-Digital will become available statewide in the coming months.

A digitized version of IPTV’s analog signal, as well as high-definition IPTV and PBS programming, will be available to viewers with the proper digital television equipment. IPTV-Digital can also be seen in many area retail stores, and in the Iowa Public Television booth in the Varied Industries Building at the Iowa State Fair.

“We are proud to provide Iowans with the state’s only high-definition live local broadcast,” said Daniel K. Miller, executive director and general manager for Iowa Public Television. “We see our role in the digital environment as unique. Iowa Public Television will use this technology to showcase Iowa as it’s never been seen on television before. Digital television provides IPTV with an important opportunity to expand our mission to educate, inform, enrich, and inspire Iowans with our programming and services.”

Beginning August 11 at 6:30 p.m., IPTV-Digital will be broadcast full-time to the converted transmitters in Des Moines, Sioux City, and Waterloo/Cedar Rapids.

For more information about IPTV’s digital programming, please contact Jennifer Glover Konfrst at 515-242-3146.

# # #
Iowa Public Television is Iowa's statewide public broadcasting network. IPTV provides quality, alternative programming that educates, enlightens, and entertains Iowans throughout the state. A noncommercial, public-service mission enables IPTV to present an unequaled array of programs of lasting value to Iowans regardless of where they live or what they can afford. Nearly one million viewers a week turn to IPTV for programming that reflects a range of interests for Iowans in all demographic categories. Iowa Public Television stations include: Channel 32, Waterloo; Channel 11, Des Moines; Channel 12, Iowa City; Channel 21, Fort Dodge; Channel 24, Mason City; Channel 27, Sioux City; Channel 32, Council Bluffs; Channel 36, Red Oak; Channel 36, Davenport.

Well it's official here in Grimes, as of 8:30pm 11.01 (hd) & 11.02 (sd) are being received on my integrated Mits!!!

Just for fun did a scan on my Dtc-100, here are the results

station, channel#, signal strength

kdsm, 16, 88
who, 19, 98
kcci, 31, 88
kdin, 50, 88
woi, 59, 23


On the last one, channel 59, wouldn't pull in any audio or video, imagine that :)

Sorry, I couldn't edit this to look nicer.

Has anyone heard if the opening ceremonies will be HD?

Spent the afternoon on a ladder installing a better outside antenna... what a payoff!
Saw my first HD tonight on PBS on my own GW and s165... just some farm show, but I sat through it like I was a kid watching MTV for the first time!

Michael

Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

We are currently broadcasting a low-power, standard definition signal. We
have been holding off on the build out of a full-power, high definition
transmission system primarily due to the fact that the FCC assigned us
what's known as an "out of core" digital channel (#59). This means that we
will have to move to another channel in the future as part of our digital
transition--something that no other station in Des Moines has to deal with.
We have been waiting on the FCC for months to move on this. Just last week,
the FCC adopted a decision that provides for an "election" process in which
stations must elect the channel they will use for digital broadcasting after
the transition from analog to digital is complete. This process, scheduled
to begin in December, should allow us to finally move forward.

Bottom line: based on the FCC's latest decision we would expect to be
broadcasting a full-power digital signal by July, 2005.

Thanks again for your inquiry.

Ray Cole, President
Citadel Communications
3903 Westown Parkway
West Des Moines, IA 50266
Phone: 515-457-9645 (Ext. 127)
Fax: 515-457-1033
rcole@woitv.com

Did anyone notice last night on leno the sound, On my Receiver it was coming up as Dolby Digital LT/RT any chance Who Has upgraded and now has Dolby 5.1 for the Olympics?

Andrew

Originally posted by mtmdesmoines
Well it's official here in Grimes, as of 8:30pm 11.01 (hd) & 11.02 (sd) are being received on my integrated Mits!!!

Just for fun did a scan on my Dtc-100, here are the results

station, channel#, signal strength

kdsm, 16, 88
who, 19, 98
kcci, 31, 88
kdin, 50, 88
woi, 59, 23


On the last one, channel 59, wouldn't pull in any audio or video, imagine that :)

Sorry, I couldn't edit this to look nicer.

Using a Samsung 360 with mid-size channel master on the roof, I'm seeing five different digital channels from IPTV from north of Ogden. No way to report strength as the Samsung uses a totally different method to display sig strength. Suffice it to say, everyone but WOI is terrific.

These are obviously remapped channel numbers and won't correspond to the DTC-100

11-1 HD Demo or Live Ia State Fair
11-2 HD Demo, some simulcast with main feed.
11-3 SD, some simulcast with main feed
11-4 no video or audio observed yet
11-5 no video or audio observed yet

Is KDIN HD in 1080i or 720p ?

PBS, CBS and WHO HD are solid, as is FOX-Digital
WOI is the same joke it has been from the beginning (of HD). No signal.

Another year without MNF in HD.

...hasan, N0AN

That reminds me ... I just visited relatives in Central Iowa earlier this week. Anyone noticed that WOI-TV's Monday Night Football contest is back again this year? Well, it is! Grand prize: An HDTV set!:D

(Perfect for watching 8, 11, 13 and 17!)

Originally posted by hasan
Using a Samsung 360 with mid-size channel master on the roof, I'm seeing five different digital channels from IPTV from north of Ogden. No way to report strength as the Samsung uses a totally different method to display sig strength. Suffice it to say, everyone but WOI is terrific.

These are obviously remapped channel numbers and won't correspond to the DTC-100

11-1 HD Demo or Live Ia State Fair
11-2 HD Demo, some simulcast with main feed.
11-3 SD, some simulcast with main feed
11-4 no video or audio observed yet
11-5 no video or audio observed yet

Is KDIN HD in 1080i or 720p ?

PBS, CBS and WHO HD are solid, as is FOX-Digital
WOI is the same joke it has been from the beginning (of HD). No signal.

Another year without MNF in HD.

...hasan, N0AN


same numbers for kdin on my sammy 165, but I've never seen anything on 11-3, 4 or 5. Wonder what the heck they plan to use them for.

Said 'thank you' to the folks at the IPTV booth at the state fair today.

Finally a big YAHOO!!!! to WHO for getting the 5.1 encoder going. To the above question, yes the olympics are now being broadcasted in 5.1, hopefully they start broadcasting more items with it....oh and who is sick of this yet:
Hey Todd
Hey Todd
Whatca doing????

(P.S. hey Sony anyone who can see that commercial more than likely already has and HD set)

that commercial is a killer but read that Sony is hoping that parties where people are seeing hdtv for the first time and any bars broadcasting in hdtv this can boost their sales.

Anyone else annoyed that the HD coverage of the olympics will always be a day behind. Sure it's great for NBC to show off the capabilities of HDTV, but it really sucks always knowing who's going to win. On a brighter note, I see that D* channel 84 has the same feed as NBC-DT, but without the annoying dropouts I get on WHO-DT (despite being less than 10 miles from the tower :confused: ).


Darrin

Yes it's annoying primarily because the Mediacom guide shows the same information as what's being shown on channel 13, which is "today's" Olympic events. My wife didn't realize the HD broadcast was delayed 24 hours at first, so I pulled up nbcolympics.com on my laptop while we were watching the men's swimming events last night and predicted every winner. She couldn't believe it and asked how I could guess the winners yet lose so much playing cards...

anyone else notice 17 digital moved to 17-2 tonight?? Any ideas if they are expanding??

slatimer

Originally posted by DarwinW13
...On a brighter note, I see that D* channel 84 has the same feed as NBC-DT, but without the annoying dropouts I get on WHO-DT (despite being less than 10 miles from the tower :confused: ).


Darrin
If you're having trouble at that distance you may have a problem with either multipath or overload (too much signal).

I know that from my parents' house in Ames, WHO and KCCI nearly pegged the meter -- and the antenna I used was indoors, with a two-story house between it and the tower. In Huxley the signals are so strong that the cable company has to carry the locals on channels other than 5, 8, 11 and 13.

As long as there's still analog, you can tune to analog channel 23 (WB, on the same tower as WHO-DT) and you may be able to "see" what your problem is.

Yeah I noticed the KDSM switch, all I can say is:

Oh please magic 8 ball let KDSM start broadcasting HD NFL Football PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Just got an email from KDSM and they said the HD equipment is in house and they are just waiting for Fox to throw the HD switch.

Bryan

Thats awesome about KDSM, 17.1 came back on today, the PQ difference between 17.1 and 17.2 is quite significant. THANKS KDSM!!!

my seinfeld looked much better!!!!!

I'm getting a good picture on 17-2, but no sound.

WOW! Football game tonight (17-1) was 720p and Dolby Digital. Way to go KDSM.

BTW - the football game was also on 17-2 but there was no sound and it appeared to be 480i but it was the widescreen picture. I suspect they're using the 720p source, downconverting to 480i and then do the pan & scan for the analog signal. This allows them to use a single source for both video feeds.

some debate on the main board about whether its true 720p...I don't think it is cuz its now where near as good as ESPNHD..they think its 480p upconverted which makes the most sense..

Any other Mediacom'ers lose your authorization for Discovery HD? i did at home and noticed the feed at work had lost it too. Hopefully Mediacom will be adding KDSM's digital feed for you guys in time for football season. It will be a moot point for me because I'm moving to St. Louis next weekend. Looks like I'll be getting lots of Rams' games in HD. :)

I agree it may be upconverted. The quality is marginal. However, it's promising to see the 720p.

I guess I should have expected KDSM to try multicasting different screen formats since that's what their sister station KGAN ("CBS-2") is doing in Cedar Rapids. (Both are owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group, and KGAN's studios are used to anchor the Fox News At Nine, so they are joined at the hip in a way.) On KGAN-DT, 2-1 is always 16:9, and if they're not getting HD from CBS, they'll stretch the SD horizontally to 16:9. 2-2 is always a 4:3 upconvert of their analog signal.

But at least you'll have the NFL in HD on Sunday, unlike the folks over here who have to rely on the low-power, SD of KFXA-DT. "Can we watch, too? We brought chips! And salsa!"

(And in return, you can bring your chips and salsa over to Cedar Rapids for Monday night!)

ravens/eagles wow is all i got to say..

not 5.1 tho

Nice looking game tonight. I didn't get to watch as much as I'd like since I was working, but it definitely seemed to be an improvement in picture quality in comparison to NBCs Olympic coverage. The Olympic PQ was good for the opening ceremonies, but seemed to lose its luster when they went to the delayed feed.

I was in Des Moines for the State Fair and noticed, at some exhibits in the Varied Industries Building, some macroblocking when the network did the wipe with the Olympic rings. I didn't ask whether they were getting the signal from cable, satellite or directly off-air from WHO-DT -- probably should have.

I do know WHO was still running Mega Doppler on their sub -- two sets on the fairgrounds were displaying it.

Also noticed that the DirecTV booth was showing an NFL game Saturday night. The bug said the channel was ESPN-HD. Was this Saturday game actually supposed to be in HD? Somehow it didn't quite look like it.

(After noticing that, I got a life and went to the AE stage to watch the Blue Band.)

Colts and Jets were on ESPN HD Saturday night and it was in high def, so if that was the game, you have your answer. I thought it looked pretty good while I was at work.

WHO always runs their weather radar on 13-2. It's now routine for them.

Dave, are you famous now? I hope you aren't the Dave that KCCI reported as having all of the trouble with the no-fly list.

Keep in mind that ESPN is 720p, so it won't look quite as great as the 1080i we are getting from WHO.

That's me - suspected terrorist.

Somebody with my name is on TSA's No-Fly list so I now get delayed everytime I get a boarding pass - a real pain.

Does anyone know if DirecTV will continue to carry channel 84 as the High Def NBC or will it be shut off? I'm having a hard time getting NBC OTA signal in Des Moines.

Dave

Originally posted by dsm363
Does anyone know if DirecTV will continue to carry channel 84 as the High Def NBC or will it be shut off? I'm having a hard time getting NBC OTA signal in Des Moines.

Dave

Once the olympics is over channel 84 will definately not be showing WHO.

I am 30 miles away from the towers and get a strong 13-1 signal.

Is anyone getting 8-1 reliably? I get a lot of breakups lately and there is no sound at the moment.

8-1 is usually my strongest channel. I notice since the fair is over that 11-1 is not coming in as strong. Maybe they reduced power on their digital channel?

Bryan

Hello Des Moines!! I'm just getting ready to move to the Des Moines area from Montana- specifically to Norwalk. I'm going to be getting the 50' DLP and want to get some info on what my options are for hi def in that area. If you guys could post whats being offered on what and for how much- that would be awesome. Ive been to antenna.org and all of those, but they don't seem to be up to date. I read on the posts that hi def cable was upwards of 120 bucks/month? You guys must be doin all right around their!! What I really want is MNF- please say you get ABC!

Thanks

I'm not up to speed on cable (Mediacom). Someone else will have to comment on that.

The NBC and CBS affiliates are fairly high power and normally pretty reliable OTA signals. Fox is also a pretty good signal and is just starting to broadcast some HD. IPBN (public television) has great equipment but doesn't run their digital transmitter all the time due to money constraints.

The ABC affiliate is a rinky dink station running it's digital transmitter on the lowest power allowed by the FCC and has no HD equipment. No plans to add HD until the FCC makes them ramp up the power level about a year from now.

If you want MNF in HD (which I get) you have to get Bel Express Vu satellite service through a Canadian broker. If you do that, you can get both east coast and west coast feeds for NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox including Dolby Digital sound. They also recently added WGN-HD which is a WB affiliate (for you Smallville lovers).

How much does BEV you back anyway, Dave?

The monthly fee isn't bad because the exchange rate is good. I think I'm spending about $40/month plus an annual broker fee of $75.

The expensive part is the second dish and receiver. They use the Echostar (Dish Network) hardware. It's easy to find a dish with the dual LNB on E-Bay but the HD receiver has to be registered with BEV to work. That means you need to buy it through the broker or find one on E-Bay that has been used on the BEV system. I have the DISH 6000 and it cost me $650 a year and a half ago.

But ..... I saw all of MNF football in HD last year. I can pick up all three regional games that Fox or CBS show. I can also watch CSI at 11:00 if I miss it at 8:00.

Originally posted by btw2003
Is anyone getting 8-1 reliably? I get a lot of breakups lately and there is no sound at the moment.
Bryan
As far as I know, nothing should have changed at the transmitter site as far as output power. We have been having some trouble lately with the A-D converter for audio. For some reason it keeps freaking out for no apparent reason and a nice swift kick in the face usually makes it work again. The router system for the whole station has been going through upgrades this week, so there may have been a time during the evening when audio was being patched back out for testing.

During the NFL season last year, D* channel 84 was the HD game of the week from Sunday ticket.

cfi:

to answer your question you can expect to receive:

NBC - (WHO-DT) multicasting weather radar
CBS - (KCCI-DT)
Fox - (KDSM-DT) sounds like they are ready to pass on whatever Fox sends in the way of HD

PBS - (IPTV-DT), they should be on full time, multicasting PBS demo loop

ABC - (WOI-DT) extremely low power signal, very few people have seen this channel

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by jtuck2
During the NFL season last year, D* channel 84 was the HD game of the week from Sunday ticket.

Unless it also happened to be the game that was on the local Fox or CBS station, then it was blacked out.... There were actually 2 channels being used for this, one had the game of the week on CBS the other the game of the week on Fox.

Darrin

After about two weeks of agony I finally got Mediacom HD installed in the house we just bought. Looks pretty good so far, except I've seen A LOT of blocking on WHO's olympic broadcasts. I assume that is from the weather subchannel sucking bandwidth. The HD DVR (Moto 6208) is pretty rinky-dink and isn't even in the same ballpark as a Tivo. Other than that the HD channels look pretty good.

Does anyone know status on Mediacom adding KDSM-DT? I emailed them but all I got back was a canned response. I'd love to have FOX HD football this fall but I'm not about to blow a wad of cash on an OTA reciever just for that.

The response from my email to IPTV, regarding their plans for the digital channel(s) after the fair.


"Thank you for your email. Here's what I found out in reference to your
questions:
At the moment, 11.1 is a loop of IPTV-produced programming in HD and
11.2 is a simulcast of our analog signal converted to digital.

Soon we will only be broadcasting our IPTV loop of HD programming on 11.1. Because of FCC rules, later this fall we may have to simulcast our signal digitally during the day, and broadcast HD programming at night.

We expect to begin scheduling our digital channels (beyond our
simulcast) after October 1.

If I can help you with anything else, please let me know. Thanks for watching!
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Williams"

cfi--

Welcome to Norwalk! I've lived here for a while and recently moved into our newly-built house. Didn't want an antenna on the roof, so I used a 65 mile RCA roof top antenna and put it in the attic. I get 93% on 17-1 & 2 and 100% on 8, 11 & 13's digital feeds with my Hughes E86. Using D* and added the HD package for free for 6 months deal a couple weeks ago.

What area are you moving in to? If it's new construction, it should be close to me (The Legacy) as there's not a lot of different areas in town with new homes.

clones...

Thanks for the reply...Im assuming the channels you mentioned are NBC, CBS, FOX, and PBS. From what I gather ABC's not doing too well. Im excited that your getting that kind of reception, makes the new tv a bigger selling point on my wife No new construction for me... we are getting an apartment but will be checking out the new home thing shortly. I hear Norwalk is a really nice town and we're looking forward to the move.

cfi--

You're right about the networks. I have gotten, at most, a 6% signal on ABC with no picture, of course. Most of Norwalk sits fairly high and has nothing that really interferes with the towers by Alleman. I do get some blocking in the picture occasionally which might be something to do with the airport (which is directly north of Norwalk and pretty much right between us and the TV towers). Not been really a problem, though.

Norwalk is a great little town that is experiencing some good growth lately. Close to Des Moines but still not merged into the metro and lost its identity. Good luck on the move and keep in touch.

Anyone happen to be watching the Condo last night on KDSM. They were definitely doing some testing, they had it broadcasting in 5.1DD and actually switched so the material was in 4x3. The image looked awesome, I am talking rivaling WHO-DT on its non HDTV programs. I hope KDSM eventually switches to this all the time. Also the 5.1DD although not true DD was definitely better than what it normally is. Too bad they couldnt be testing this with the hawkeye game....

I live up in Iowa Falls and am getting channels 8, 13, and 11 just fine. I am not getting anything for 17, the receiver doesn't acknowledge it even exists.

I'm new to all of this, in fact I just got my HDTV receiver yesterday and was shocked that I could even get any of the channels at all being this far north with just an old antenna. Will an antenna amplifier help out with getting channel 17?

Originally posted by Axiant
I live up in Iowa Falls and am getting channels 8, 13, and 11 just fine. I am not getting anything for 17, the receiver doesn't acknowledge it even exists.

I'm new to all of this, in fact I just got my HDTV receiver yesterday and was shocked that I could even get any of the channels at all being this far north with just an old antenna. Will an antenna amplifier help out with getting channel 17?

I went to antennaweb.org and according to them you are 50+ miles away from the Des Moines station's transmitting towers.

You may be receiving 8,13, and 11 but I suspect this is the analog versions and not the digital versions. To receive HDTV over the air you must receive a digital channel that is broadcasting in high definition (not all digital signals are in high definition).

In fact antennaweb says there are no digital stations available in your area.

I have a huge outdoor antenna with preamp and am 30 miles from the towers and 17-1 (Fox digital) is my weakest signal of those I can get. 8-1,11-1,13-1,and 17-1.

Not all (if any??) of those stations are broadcasting at full strength for their digital channel.

What HDTV receiver do you have?
I had a Samsung TS 160 but replaced that recently with a HD-Tivo.
The HD-Tivo has more trouble pulling in 8-1 than the Samsung did. It receives all the other stations on par with the old Samsung.
The old Samsung got 8-1 at 100% the HD-Tivo only gets it in the low 70's range and this is with finely tuning the pointing of the outdoor antenna.

Good luck in getting some HDTV to look at. If you have/get DirectTv you may qualify for the national HD feed of the major networks.

Bryan

Originally posted by btw2003
You may be receiving 8,13, and 11 but I suspect this is the analog versions and not the digital versions. To receive HDTV over the air you must receive a digital channel that is broadcasting in high definition (not all digital signals are in high definition).
My receiver says it's in HD (the on-screen display lights up the HD indicator). Me being new to all of this, would it say HD even if it's analog? I was watching channels 8-1 and 13-1 and the shows were both in widescreen, while the commercials had black bars down the left and right sides. I was also getting the weather radar on 13-2 last night, as I read about in this post.

Right now, I am watching tennis on 8-1 and it says it is also in HD, and the picture is fantastic, although it keeps breaking up every so often today. Last night there were no breakups.

What HDTV receiver do you have?
I have a Hughes HTL-HD Directv receiver. I was going to get the Directv with Tivo HD receiver, but it costs too much for me at the moment.

So, does all this sound like HD to you? Would an amp help me out still with 17?

Yes you are getting HD. I am getting a lot of breakups on 8-1 right now also.
A preamp will definately help you out. 17-1 isn't at full strength.

I was just going by what antennaweb said about your location, I thought it strange that it said no digitals stations were available in that area.

Being as you do have DirectTv you might ask them if you qualify for the major network's HD feed, then if your over the air is acting up that would give you something to fall back to.

Antennaweb shows a bunch of analog stations in your area. 3 ABC's for instance and it shows a Fox station out of Cedar Rapids which may be a stronger signal in your area??? That would require you to re-point your antenna though and it might not be worth the trouble even if you get an antenna rotator to allow all possibilities.

I would call DirectTv and see about the network HD feeds first though.
While on the phone with DirectTv ask about any credits available for the HD-Tivo. I got an immediate $150 credit and $20 dollars a month off the Total Choice Premiere package for 6 months.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
Bryan

Man channel 8 is slowing getting worse. Today I am having zero luck....11, 13, and 16 all good, channel 8 comes in for like a sec then breaks out. Whats funny is my signal when it is on is like 80%...hopefully KCCI figures it out....

Originally posted by Sarcoptic
Man channel 8 is slowing getting worse. Today I am having zero luck....11, 13, and 16 all good, channel 8 comes in for like a sec then breaks out. Whats funny is my signal when it is on is like 80%...hopefully KCCI figures it out....

8-1 has been problematic for me in the last couple of weeks but today it has been much better.

Not as good as it has been in the past but a whole lot better, I still get a few dropouts but at least it is watchable now.

I am glad to hear about other's problem with 8-1 since I recently got an HD-Tivo and was beginning to think something was wrong with it.

I will officially be pissed at KCCI if I can't get a watchable picture during HD football and they still black out my Sunday Ticket HD feed for the game they are showing.

Bryan

Sarcoptic, where are you located again?

As far as I know nothing should have changed with the signal getting out. There was a problem on the tower with this second-to-last round of storms, so maybe when the storms came through again last night something happened.

I called Directv to see if I could get the CBS national feeds on channels 80 and 81, but they said they'd submit a waiver for me.

My channel 8 today (8-1) breaks up a lot too. 13-1 and 13-2 are fine.

Can anyone suggest a good pre-amp to boost my signal so I can try to get 17 (and whatever else it will pick up)? I live about 80 miles north of Des Moines.

Thanks!

Edit: Now at 7pm, just in time for the comedies, CBS is not breaking up anymore. Perfect picture and sound.

Hmm I live in State Center, still CBS is crappy for me. I guess I have to get on the roof and mess with the antenna some more. I mean KDSM and WHO are perfect no losses, along with PBS....looking at antenna web they are like 2 degree seperation....

I use the Channel master preamp model #7777.
You might be better off getting a radioshack version and taking it back if it doesn't improve things. I had mine installed when I got DirectTv so I don't know what lengths one must go to in order to hook up a preamp.

Without the preamp 17-1 would be impossible for me and I am 30 miles from the towers but I live in a low lying area.

Tonight 8-1 has been flawless! Thanks KCCI for fixing the problems!

Oh and try getting all the national feeds(CBS,NBC,FOX,ABC) from DirectTv, not just CBS.

Bryan

Axiant and btw2003:

I was going to suggest trying the eastern Iowa towers near Rowley and Walker, but then I looked at a map and reality set in -- they're actually farther away from Iowa Falls than the Alleman towers serving Ames-Des Moines.

Still, you can always try. There's a guy in Muscatine who gets our stations even though he's "not supposed" to be able to receive them, so it could be worth a shot.

Unfortunately the only piece of the puzzle you're likely to pick up is ABC. KFXA-Fox is running at very low power right now, as is KWKB (The WB). The ABC station, KCRG-DT, is on 52-1 (it doesn't "map" to its analog channel 9 yet). Its licensed power is pretty respectable, just a little less than KCCI-DT, and it passes ABC HD programming.

NBC and CBS are also running at fairly good power, although NBC could be a little tricky and CBS-2 (KGAN) multicasts an SD subchannel.

There is an ABC in Austin, MN, but they have a special temporary authorization (STA) to run just 4.9 kW and I'm not sure what progress they're making toward full service.

WOI-DT has an STA for 500 watts and reportedly doesn't reach all of the Des Moines metro, let alone Iowa Falls.

When you guys see the breakups on KCCI are we in local or national coverage? I have a sneaking suspision of what's going on but since I end up poking my eyes out if I watch TV when I'm at home I don't get a chance to test these theories out. (Plus that fact that I live in the basement on the south side of an apartment building.)

PM me or just reply to thread and I'll pass along the findings to the more engineering engineers at work. :) I'm more of the press-play-record-the-shows-and-make-sure-the-commercials-aren't-crappy kind of engineer. :D (I'm also the one that works late at night, so excuse me if my posts often don't make sense.)

[edit: Thanks for the report btw2003, I originally missed it in the thread due to the page split.]

Has anyone heard if Mediacom is going to get Fox and IPTV on their system anytime soon? I'm most interested in Fox NFL games.

Originally posted by kc0bsn
When you guys see the breakups on KCCI are we in local or national coverage? I have a sneaking suspision of what's going on but since I end up poking my eyes out if I watch TV when I'm at home I don't get a chance to test these theories out. (Plus that fact that I live in the basement on the south side of an apartment building.)

PM me or just reply to thread and I'll pass along the findings to the more engineering engineers at work. :) I'm more of the press-play-record-the-shows-and-make-sure-the-commercials-aren't-crappy kind of engineer. :D (I'm also the one that works late at night, so excuse me if my posts often don't make sense.)

[edit: Thanks for the report btw2003, I originally missed it in the thread due to the page split.]

The breakups have been random during the USOpen and during the commercials too. Not sure if the commercials were local or not, didn't pay that much attention to them. It seems to get worse when there are a lot of motion graphics being displayed.

I also only watch 8-1 if the show is in HD. Otherwise I watch it on the analog channel or through directtv.

Thanks!

Bryan

Hawaii on 13-1 tonight is in HD but only the bottom half of the screen, the top half of the screen is black.
Strange.

Bryan

Anyone have any info on what HD game KCCI will be sending us this weekend?

Also is there any confirmation from KDSM that everything is a "GO" for Fox HD NFL coverage?

Enjoy the HD coverage of tomorrow evening's NFL opener on beautiful WOI-DT. (Sorry, just being bitter.)

Originally posted by jtuck2
Anyone have any info on what HD game KCCI will be sending us this weekend?

Also is there any confirmation from KDSM that everything is a "GO" for Fox HD NFL coverage?

Enjoy the HD coverage of tomorrow evening's NFL opener on beautiful WOI-DT. (Sorry, just being bitter.)

Raiders at Steelers Noon on Sunday in HD.
http://www.theiowachannel.com/tvlistings/

KDSM has HD equipment on site and are just waiting for Fox to throw the HD switch.

I noticed 13-1 fixed the problem I saw earlier tonight. Not sure if it was a national problem or just local.

Bryan

Did KDSM raise their power output on the digital channel?

8-1 used to be my strongest signal, now it is my weakest. I still get 8-1 in the low to mid 70's and can live with that! I am getting a strong stable signal on all 4 of our digital stations now for the first time ever! This is how digital should be.

Does anyone else have problems with getting guide data for KDSM-HD? AKA 17-2.

I get 17-2 but w/o quide data. I get 17-1 with guide but I suspect that is just the SD channel.(won't know for sure till the NFL games are played tomorrow) This means that if I want to record anything in HD off of KDSM I have to do a manual recording and can't use the HD-Tivo abilities.

I wish they would fix this guide problem but if I get a strong stable signal I won't be complaining to much ;-)

Thanks,
Bryan

Wow! I am getting Fox now on channels 16-2 and 16-3. I am pretty sure they have to be Fox 17, but they are on channel 16 for me. Looking good too.

Channel 16-2 looks standard definition, 16-3 looks much better. Very clear and in Dolby Digital 5.1! Same show on both channels right now (Cops). I also am getting a very strong signal (the signal meter says "good").

The signals I get on every other channel, even the satellite HD channels are always "Normal." HBO HD is actually my worst, down between "Bad" and "Normal."

And to think I was going to buy a pre-amp. :p

I don't get guide data for any of my locals with my HTL-HD receiver... I take it that's not normal? It just says "Regular Schedule."

Originally posted by Axiant
Wow! I am getting Fox now on channels 16-2 and 16-3. I am pretty sure they have to be Fox 17, but they are on channel 16 for me. Looking good too.

Channel 16-2 looks standard definition, 16-3 looks much better. Very clear and in Dolby Digital 5.1! Same show on both channels right now (Cops). I also am getting a very strong signal (the signal meter says "good").

The signals I get on every other channel, even the satellite HD channels are always "Normal." HBO HD is actually my worst, down between "Bad" and "Normal."

And to think I was going to buy a pre-amp. :p

I don't get guide data for any of my locals with my HTL-HD receiver... I take it that's not normal? It just says "Regular Schedule."

I get guide data for 8-1, 13-1 (but it isn't that accurate for this channel) and 17-1. 11-1 through 11-5 all say regular schedule. I get the locals over satellite too so that may have some bearing??

Des Moines is in the top 75 markets in the USA and DirectTv claims they will be able to give us our locals in HD before the end of next year. That won't help us with WOI though since they don't do HD and can't even do a decent digital signal.

Yeah, I scanned for digital stations tonight and got 16-2 and 16-3 also. That is the actual channel they use and these STB's are remapping it to channel 17-1, 17-2 etc.

You will usually get a stronger signal at night anyway but I hope KDSM did in fact increase their power output.

I thought it was my HD-Tivo that was displaying these bugs since it shows 2 different 17-1's. One with quide data the other without guide data but the one without says KDSM-HD in the channel banner.

HBO is my weakest signal too. I think HBO HD is on satellite 119 (which is the farthest west and lowest in the sky) but I have a tree that may be interferring with that 119 signal. If I get a stronger signal after the leaves die I will have to do some trimming.

Glad you don't have to hassle with a preamp.

Thanks,
Bryan

My older Sony SATHD100 has never picked up guide data for any of our local digital channels, so can't help you there.

KDSM must have been upconverting the Hawks vs. Clones game today. 16.1 was normal quality, but 16.2 was DD5.1 (only a center channel was active) and looked much better than 16.1. I was assuming they were line doubling. Anyone else notice a difference?

I hope to be impressed tomorrow. Have a great Sunday all.

Justin

I switched among Satellite Local, Analog OTA, 17-1 and 17-2 and without a doubt 17-2 had the best picture and yes, it looked like it was line doubled, but pretty darn good for having done that.

I had expected that the best quality would be on 17-1, but so far that is not the case. Maybe things will switch today. In any case, let's hope we have full 720p HD for the games today. As a long suffering Bears fan, I'm not sure I can stand them in HD, but hope springs eternal <g>

Samsung 360 HD Sat/OTA receiver
Medium sized channel master on the peak of roof
Signals are solid from everyone but WOI (of course)

3.6 mi NE of Ogden
1135' ASL (height above sea level)

No way to report actual signal strength because the 360 signal meter is erratic at best.

Enjoy the games!

...hasan, N0AN

One further note:

I don't get PSP info on KDSM digital channels. There are two explanations if you don't see guide (PSP) info on digital channels:

1. Your receiver is too old to display it (DTC-100)
2. The station isn't providing it at all, or is providing it improperly.

If you are getting it for CBS, you're receiver is probably fine.

...hasan, N0AN

Man talk about dissappointing. KCCI has went from my best to my worst. The game comes in for a few secs then baam back out. Oh well at least KDSM has the game in HD way to go!!!!

KDSM is looking amazing! DD 5.1 and everything. I am glad they increased their signal strength just in time for the NFL season. The Sunday Ticket games that are on our local CBS and Fox are blacked out.

KCCI is working just fine as well, but in DD 2.0 (according to my receiver). I've had a few freeze ups already though. I hope that gets fixed. Nothing like the US Open... yet. The freeze ups during that were terrible.

Edit: KDSM is freezing up every now and again as well. Neither station is doing it so much that it's terribly annoying though. :)

I am a happy camper. Both KDSM and KCCI have just a few breakups and very few!!!!!

Thanks FOX and CBS!!!!!!!!! Great job!!!!!!!

Bryan

Originally posted by btw2003
I am a happy camper. Both KDSM and KCCI have just a few breakups and very few!!!!!

Thanks FOX and CBS!!!!!!!!! Great job!!!!!!!

Bryan

CBS is breaking up quite a bit more than Fox. In fact, after the CBS game hit halftime, there were breakups constantly up until right about now (2pm). Wonder what that's all about.

Both still great for me.

Bryan

Hmm KCCI tends to work great at night for me but crappy during the afternoon. I do have a pretty directional antenna, my STB acts more likes its a multipath issue more than anything....

17-2 is very good, picture quality is excellent, but I don't think I like it as much as the 1080i I've seen football on CBS with. Could be the game setup, who knows. Nevertheless it is beautiful.

Anyone know why the Pittsburgh Steelers vs Raiders game is blacked out on NFL ST? I don't see us being in their market.

Otherwise things are lookin' great...the Redskins game on D* HD is VERY crisp.

It's a happy day in central Iowa, with 17-2 coming in 720p. We should all make a point of sending a congratulatory note to KDSM for getting it done on time....lots of places were not so lucky.

...hasan, N0AN

Duh....I hadn't even looked ...the Raiders/Steelers are on CBS locally and it looks TERRIFIC. I definitely like the look of KCCI compared to KDSM, but that may not be the 1080i vs 720p factor...will have to watch more games.

Sorry for the dumb question.

...hasan, N0AN

Originally posted by Sarcoptic
Hmm KCCI tends to work great at night for me but crappy during the afternoon. I do have a pretty directional antenna, my STB acts more likes its a multipath issue more than anything....

I notice the same thing. I have sat through primtime CBS and never seen a breakup before. In the afternoon, seems like there's always breakups.

Here is KDSM's email address:
comments@kdsm17.com

Considering this is Fox's first weekend broadcasting in HD they did an awesome job!

KCCI today was good for me today also. They had a few more breakups for me than KDSM.

I am glad I am not the only one seeing a reduced/weaker signal from KCCI. I find it odd that it was once my strongest signal (by a wide margin) and now it is my weakest signal.

I did get to compare OTA KDSM VS the NFL Sunday ticket game of Cowboys VS Vikings when they didn't black out the ST feed during the first quarter or so.

OTA KDSM was slightly better than the ST channel. IMO.

I am definately a happy camper now and am finally getting to enjoy my setup instead of getting frustrated.

Hopefully KCCI can figure out why several of us are experiencing a weaker signal from them.

Very pleased overall but there is always room for improvement ;-)

Here is a link to find KCCI email address:
http://www.theiowachannel.com/kcci/index.html

Thanks,
Bryan

btw2003 what kind of antenna are you currently using? I am considering retiring my cheap $20 UHF rat shack antenna for a channel master 4228. Living in State Center I figure over doing it wont harm anything, although damn that thing is ugly and the wife would have a field day with my butt.....

Don't quote me on this but I believe it is a 3017. UHF/VHF.

You are probably aware of this but the 4228 is a UHF only. And while all our current digital stations in the area are UHF it may not stay that way. I am 30 miles from the towers and State Center should be a little bit closer. That thing is ugly but the product it delivers is worth it! :-) It has a 60 mile UHF range. I doubt you would need a pre-amp at all with that sucker.

I needed VHF anyway since I didn't think I would get the locals via DirectTv. It is kinda nice to use the antenna when a storm knocks out satellite service. If power goes out for just a second and the DirectTv boxes can't get a good satellite signal you end up with nothing till the storm passes and it can acquire a satellite signal.

The digital stations aren't broadcasting 24/7 yet and w/o a VHF antenna you won't be able to pick up the analog versions. I have noticed that a lot of the times they don't break into the digital channels with all those weather alerts. The weather alerts are a pain at times but I like them when it is my area being affected. I would recommend a UHF/VHF antenna for these reasons.

WOI claims it is dragging it's feet on the digital conversion because they don't know what their frequency is going to be when the FCC mandates all TV transmissions to be digital. They might end up with VHF digital assignment.

Let us know which one you go with and how it works.

Thanks,
Bryan

Yep currently aware of all being UHF.....hmm I did send a note to KCCI asking if they are having problems with the digital feed now lets see if I get a response back. I have a digital cable (partner communications) and I am sure they are a way off from offering any sort of HDTV.....

Ha way to go WHO on the LAX premiere. Looks like they have the rear surround sound in a 5.1 setup playing out the fronts....and the fronts and center are non existence hence why we have the surround sound and no voices.....

Same here...there was no dialogue at all in the center channel. I have rarely seen this kind of "perfect" separation on the center channel. Nice demo of what 5.1 Digital Dolby is capable of. I wached with a complete sense of amazement!

I have a thread here and in hardware about not finding ota HDTV.
So please forgive the dumb question-what shows tonight will be in HDTV in the Des Moines area?
I am going to try and scan again. The point of my other threads is that my directv HD works great but I am having a hard time finding local HDTV.
I turned to Fox 17 Sunday to check the NFL game but the receiver showed as SD not HD. I them read here where it was HD! So I am still a little confused on how the get the HD stations I guess.

Scan in the evening, starting around 7 p.m. You have to scan when digital transmissions are on the air. Punching in the channel numbers will not work, you must do a scan. You should see the following added to your guide:

08-1 KCCI CBS
11-1 IPTV
11-2
11-3
11-4
11-5
13-1 WHO NBC
13-2 WHO Weather Radar
17-1 KDSM Fox SD
17-2 KDSM Fox HD

Channel 5 (ABC) might show up...it is so weak that most don't see it. They are on ultra-low power and say they won't be up to snuff until August of 2005!!!

One other note, you need a signal to work with. Depending on where you are, indoor antennas may not do it. As I said earlier, I have a moderate size channel master up about 30'. I'm about 25 miles NW of Alleman tower complex and all signals except ABC (CH 5-1) are solid. No ABC to be seeen, see my other post. My height above sea level is also good, at 1135'.

Thanks Hasan. I live in West Des Moines and the antenna site says I am about 18 miles from the towers. I get Fox 17 and channel 23 fine. Does that mean my UHF is fine or do you think my UHF signal may be too weak for HDTV?
I have a newer channelmaster antenna in the attic but it was a basic model.
Monday night I scanned after 7pm and no new channels (HD) were added.
So I guess that may narrow it down to the antenna or a receiver problem for the local channels?

Hey hhawk here to help you out a little. The best guide I use for HDTV is http://www.titantv.com its free and it tells exactly what HD stuff is on. Tonight it looks like at 7pm NCIS (HD) is on 8.1 (or it may be 31 which is digital UHF) then at 8pm Father of the Pride (HD) is on 13.1 (or it may be 19 which is digital UHF). As hasan mentioned if you are curious to see if you are getting digital tv or not you should have 2 13's one with normal tv the other with just the radar. What is the model number of the set top box are you using?

Hi Sarcoptic,
I have an old refurbished Panasonic HDS-20 I believe. (Am at work but that looks like it when I searched.)
I do get two channels for each station when I scan, but in this case one is the Directv and the second is the ota.
Thanks for the info and link. I will specifically try to scan tonight when NCIS starts.

Finally, I find a live bunch of people on a local HD discussion. I live by Granger, about 10-12 miles from most of the towers, so I guess I am one of the lucky ones, able to get ABC in HD. I was a bit miffed though that the broadcast for MNF was not in HD :( Has channel 5 only been broadcasting SD over DTV, or have they had some HD programming yet?

WOI (ABC - channel 5) has no HD equipment so the only signal other than the standard analog is their digital signal. It is running at the lowest power allowed by the FCC and there are no plans to add HD equipment before next year at the earliest.

So, no MNF in HD from WOI for at least a year.

It was, however, a gorgeous picture in HD for those on Bel Express Vu.:D

hhawk I was bored and grabbed the manual to the STB. Want to make sure of one thing in your quest for HDTV. That is your indoor/outdoor antenna must be hooked up to the ant in on the back of the box. Your direct tv satellite can not be used as an antenna. Also I will hop back on around 7 to verify that NCIS is being broadcasted in HD. That should give you an hour to make sure its all working. Good luck!

Thanks again Sarcoptic! I do have my attic antenna hooked into the back of the receiver. I run it out the attic and down by my dish. I run it and two directv lines into my basement where I amplify the antenna, diplex it and send it two my two different receivers where I diplex it back to the separate dish and antenna lines.
Thanks again for your help.

Wow with this weather stuff going on NCIS is not in HD so far. Hhawk if you can see the KCCI-DT logo along the lower right corner then thats the digital feed...

Only the regular logo so far. I will try another scan at 8 then give it up until tomorrow. Maybe a night with all the storms in the area isn't the best time to be trying this:)

Hmm something isnt setup right. The kcci-dt logo is displayed all the time weather stuff or not... sorry I dont know much about that box and how it works

Looks like Father of the Pride is being broadcasted in HD on NBC which is digital channel 19 if you want to try that....

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about that particular box, but something is certainly wrong, hopefully in the setup and how you are telling it to scan. UHF through the roof is not the best, as well. No knowing if it's the box setup, defective box or antenna is a bit confusing and hard to troubleshoot.

Don't worry about what is being sent in hd or non-hd...that isn't the problem. You need to start seeing KCCI DT , WHO-DT, IPTV-HD and Fox-HD...they aren't always HD, but they are ALWAYS digital, and that's all the set top boxes are going to scan for, they don't care whether the source is HD, they only care that it is digital.

Until you can get the digital channels to show up on your STB, forget whether something is hd or not....the key factor at this point is DIGITAL. Once they show up, you'll see HD just fine, when it is sending HD. Your STB can't tell the difference....if it sees one of the digital channels, you've made progress. Until then, you have to keep trying different things.

Let us know if there is anything else we can do to help.

Bad night for HDTV around central IA. Not much broadcast in HD at all.'

Saturday, I swear I saw WB in DTV, was I seeing things? I know they are under FCC application, etc, but were they testing maybe?

I saw there is a PAX station that should be ramping up too, but I haven't seen a date. Are there any others?

WHO doesn't seem to be HD tonight either, this what others are seeing? Good digital signal, and father of the pride is supposed to be HD....

Hi everyone. I live on the southeast side of Des Moines and i just received a squareshooter antenna. Has anybody used it in the Des Moines area? How did it work?

Thanks again for everyone's help. I will do some more searching but this time for info on my receiver and perhaps try an UHF antenna direct into my box.
It does sound like the box just doesn't read the digital signal unless it is on Directv. (Maybe that is why it was returned for "refurbishing" in the first place:( I can experiment and see if it works for some reason on one of the cable settings instead of antenna also.

hhawk currently directtv isnt offering any sort of digital local channels. So I am sure the box can decode the signals...also looking at the manual to the HDS20 you should have no problem hmm go into your setup menui of your box (they call it the roller guide) and look at Ant Setup. For Ant Input you should have antenna selected.....after selecting that go to Auto Scan and let it do its thing then check to see what you got....

No help with the squareshooter char. Just using a plain old RCA standard outdoor aerial. It is huge, but it is in the garage attic, so I don't really care.

IMHO, these antenna company have largely over hyped the advantages they offer. Granted they are in the business of selling antenna, but what advantage does an expensive Silver Sensor have over my cheapo?

Originally posted by char
Hi everyone. I live on the southeast side of Des Moines and i just received a squareshooter antenna. Has anybody used it in the Des Moines area? How did it work?

What are you using now?

What receiver do you have now or are planning on using?

Being that close to the towers you might well get by using just indoor rabbit ears.

I know someone in Urbandale that gets a strong steady signal with indoor rabbit ears.


Bryan

KCCI has HD tonight 8pm through 10pm
WHO has HD tonight 9pm through 10pm and 10:30pm through 11:30pm
KDSM has HD tonight 7:30pm through 9pm
PBS had a lot of HD on today but stops at 7pm

We are making progress.

Bryan

hhawk currently directtv isnt offering any sort of digital local channels. So I am sure the box can decode the signals...also looking at the manual to the HDS20 you should have no problem hmm go into your setup menui of your box (they call it the roller guide) and look at Ant Setup. For Ant Input you should have antenna selected.....after selecting that go to Auto Scan and let it do its thing then check to see what you got....
____________________________________________________________
Hi Sarcoptic. I have tried the above several times over the past couple of days. I still end up with two channels for each station-the dish channel and the OTA channel. (Thanks for going to all the trouble to look up the manual!) I was doing the same thing today, looking at the on line manual trying to see if there is anything I missed in set up.
Crawled up in the attic and readjusted the antenna again to see if it might make a difference but so far no luck.
Did want to clarify something from earler-do the channels only display the digital logo when they are transmitting in digital or are they now always transmitting digitally?
Do you that receive the signal get the analogue channel and the digital on two different channels or does it default to the digital with your receivers?
If so I think there must be something wrong with the OTA portion of mine.
I also checked my antenna amp and turned on the FM trap to see if that made a difference.
I may try and buy a cheap OTA receiver on Ebay at least then I would know if it is my receiver or something wrong with my antenna or reception.
Thanks again for everyones help!

hhawk the KCCI-DT feed is always displaying the logo even during commercials. Also WHO has a digital channel that is nothing but the radar. I dont have direct tv I have samsung sir-t151 which is strictly just an OTA reciever. I picked it up from Best Buy for 70 bucks last spring (clearance price). Hmm looking at pictures in the manual the guide looks like if the channel is digital it should be marked as DTV (not direct tv but digital tv)

Do you that receive the signal get the analogue channel and the digital on two different channels or does it default to the digital with your receivers?

The actual channels used for broadcasting the digital stations are as followed:
KDSMDT=16
WHODT=19
KCCIDT=31
IPTV=50

All the recievers I have seen remap those digital channels to the normal analog channel. i.e.
KDSM is 17-1 and 17-2
WHO is 13-1 and 13-2. 13-2 is nothing but the weather radar.
KCCI is 8-1
IPTV is 11-1,11-2,11-3,11-4 and 11-5

If you just hit 17 on the remote you will get the analog channel. To see the digital 17 you have to enter 17-1. Your remote should have a "-" button somewhere.

I suppose you could just hit 17 and then use the channel up key also.

Bryan

Bryan,

For many OTA HD receivers, you have to have scanned the channels first and have them be "found" before you can just enter a channel number. In other words, just entering 17-1 (with no prior scan) won't get you that channel, nor will entering 19 for KCCI work either.

Unfortunately, I just don't know anything about the box he is using. I've successfully used an old DTC-100 (RCA), which did not remap channels, so I watched 31 and 19 on it, and now use a Samsung 360 which remaps channel numbers. In both cases, none of the digital channels were accessible until I did a full channel re-scan...then I could manually enter the move. When I tried to do it before the scan, the receiver would appear to change channels, but I never got any video or audio.

The key for most receivers is to do a scan and then observer what channels it shows it added. If you don't see 19 or 31 (in an old receiver), or 8-1 and 13-1/13-2 in a new receiver, then it is very unlikely that keying them in manually will get you anywhere.

Sure wish we could help this fella!

"If you just hit 17 on the remote you will get the analog channel. To see the digital 17 you have to enter 17-1. Your remote should have a "-" button somewhere."
___________________________________________________________
With my Panasonic it is the "program" button that puts in the dash. Unfortunately this only works with the cable settings and not the antenna setting.

Today after work I plan to move my antenna again to the far east end of the attic to minimize any chance my neighbors house is blocking some of the signal.
I also plan to replace my regular coaxial cable with the satellite grade stuff.
Perhaps my signal is just not strong enough since I do have to use a antenna amp or I get a poor signal. (I am only 18 miles away from the towers but just slightly down a hill. My attic should be higher than the crest of the hill but there is a school that may also be blocking some of the signal.)
If this doesn't work I guess my next step is a new antenna. The one I have is only 4 years old and from Radio Shack and meant for metro areas. Maybe I will have to spring for a fringe area one!

I just recently moved into this house so i don't have any antenna other than some cheapo that wouldn't work in my basement. The receiver i have is a hd tivo.

I am now able to get all the channels that I believe are currently available. I swear that on saturday, WB was broadcasting digital, but maybe they were just testing or something. I am using an indoor RCA amplified set of rabbit ears. They look like crap where they are, but WOI is so touchy, I don't know if I want to touch it. I am pretty new to these forums, so am reading a lot in the antenae threads, trying to see what is best.

On another note, what is the deal with KDIN and their broadcasting? Every time I turn it on, they have state fair footage, even if titantv says otherwise. Does anyone know, are they having trouble, etc? Granted, I haven't been able to turn them on at a time when titan has the (HD) in the programming, is it perhaps that these are the only HD shows, and other than that they are showing the fair loop?

Also, the channels were listed earlier in this thread, but what resolutions are they broadcasting in?

I have a Samsung T351 tuner... does anyone know how to have it tell you what signal it is decoding? (resolution, etc?)

xsnrg,

KDIN is mostly playing around. They don't seem to be carrying anything from their normal feed to HD...it is basically fair re-runs...but, hey....at least it's HD <vbg> I wouldn't depend on Titan....they are notorious for getting things wrong. It's something to look at, but not depend on.

No station is transmitting HD on more than one sub-channel. They don't have the bandwidth for it. You will see which is which by just looking. Most of KDIN's extra channels are empty...nothing on them. Who knows what they have planned, but they will be digital SD, not HD, no matter what.

HD is on the following: (when source material is available)

8-1 KCCI CBS
11-1 KDIN PBS
13-1 WHO NBC
17-2 KDSM FOX, when HD source is available, (17-1 is always SD)

I don't mention 5 (WOI) because it is bogus, flea power with no committment for HD until August of 2005 according to their email to me.

hth

...hasan, N0AN

Thanks Hasan,

That appeared to be my take. I wasn't looking for multiple subchannels to be HD, as I know about the bandwidth concerns. My question mostly stems from the quality difference in the picture from KDIN (state fair stuff) to say, KCCI's HD broadcasts. KDIN blows them away. I am converting everything to 720p.

I had heard that fox digital is not HD (my tuner says HD), but is 480p too, but don't know what to make of that. Also, it looks like last night they switched the HD feed and the SD feed. I think I saw HD on -1 and SD on -2

If Titan is not a good source, are there other sites/sources of info that tell what is being broadcast HD ?

Thanks

I emailed KDIN (IPTV) regarding their plans for the HD channel during the fair. Asked what are your ongoing plans and when will you have a meaningful schedule posted on your website.

The response (keep in mind this was during state fair):

"Thank you for your email. Here's what I found out in reference to your
questions:
At the moment, 11.1 is a loop of IPTV-produced programming in HD and
11.2 is a simulcast of our analog signal converted to digital.

Soon we will only be broadcasting our IPTV loop of HD programming on 11.1. Because of FCC rules, later this fall we may have to simulcast our signal digitally during the day, and broadcast HD programming at night.

We expect to begin scheduling our digital channels (beyond our
simulcast) after October 1.

If I can help you with anything else, please let me know. Thanks for watching!
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Williams"

If you look back through historical posts in this forum, WOI has basically lied since day 1 regarding their HD plans. I would hold no stock in the August 2005 deadline. It is just a date they pulled out of the air.

I think they do have a new GM so maybe he isn't blowing smoke, but I am guessing his hands (or checkbook) are tied.

Are there any local channels that have station engineers on here?

I am looking at a few different antennas and wonder what peoples thoughts are. These are the 3 that I'm looking at:

Channel Master 3020 (100 miles VHF; 60 miles UHF)- $100 at Lowes
Channel Master 3671 (100+ miles VHF; 60+ miles UHF)- $118 + shipping over the net
Phillips Magnavox MANT901 (200 miles VHF; 80 miles UHF) - $70 at Menards

It appears, based on price and distance, the Phillips is the way to go but not sure of the quality or how it truly brings in HD content Vs. the Channel Master brands. Is the Channel Master models better even though the Phillips has a better distance rating? I've seen a lot of people on this forum talk about Channel Master but not Phillips.

Some background: I live in WDM (Scenic Valley Dr) in a very low lying area with a large hill and houses toward the direction of the Alleman towers and I do get 8-1 and 11-1 in very well, but 13-1 & 13-2 get a lot of break ups and I do not get 17-1 in at all. I was hoping that one of these antennas would bring those in. I currently have an older (15 yrs) somewhat cheap Radio Shack antenna on a 10' mast on my roof. I also have a 20 or so decibel amp on the antenna.

Thanks for any advice. Jeff

hasen you are actually wrong...KDSM has switched so 17.1 is the HD channel and 17.2 is the SD channel. They just did this a day ago....hitting info with my Samsung box shows HD for 17.1 and SD for 17.2

Originally posted by HDJeff
I am looking at a few different antennas and wonder what peoples thoughts are. These are the 3 that I'm looking at:

Channel Master 3020 (100 miles VHF; 60 miles UHF)- $100 at Lowes
Channel Master 3671 (100+ miles VHF; 60+ miles UHF)- $118 + shipping over the net
Phillips Magnavox MANT901 (200 miles VHF; 80 miles UHF) - $70 at Menards

It appears, based on price and distance, the Phillips is the way to go but not sure of the quality or how it truly brings in HD content Vs. the Channel Master brands. Is the Channel Master models better even though the Phillips has a better distance rating? I've seen a lot of people on this forum talk about Channel Master but not Phillips.

Some background: I live in WDM (Scenic Valley Dr) in a very low lying area with a large hill and houses toward the direction of the Alleman towers and I do get 8-1 and 11-1 in very well, but 13-1 & 13-2 get a lot of break ups and I do not get 17-1 in at all. I was hoping that one of these antennas would bring those in. I currently have an older (15 yrs) somewhat cheap Radio Shack antenna on a 10' mast on my roof. I also have a 20 or so decibel amp on the antenna.

Thanks for any advice. Jeff

200 miles VHF??
I have heard that anything over about 60-70 miles isn't possible due to the curvature of the earth. Unless of course you are at the highest point of the surrounding terrain.

I have a channelmaster with preamp and am pleased with it's performance I have been having trouble with KCCI lately but it was absolutely flawless last night. Now with KDSM upping their power output I get 70+ signal strength on all 4 digital stations. IPTV and WHO are mid 90's now. KCCI was 100% and now is in the low 70's.

I was thinking of trying a radioshack adjustable attenuator if KCCI's problems reappear.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-678

I would compare the specs of the different antennas and base my decision on that, not on claimed receiving ranges or marketing hype.

I saw the MANT901 for $29.95 at
http://www.greatamericacorp.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=EA&Product_Code=CS-MANT901&Category_Code=AT
Didn't check their shipping charges though.

Bryan

Originally posted by xsnrg
Are there any local channels that have station engineers on here? Well, not officially. :p But I do work at KCCI in the engineering department. I usually try to relay reports and problems on to people who can actually do something about it at work. My job function is basically just to make sure all the Dr. Phils & Oprahs get recorded, load show tapes and get them ready to air, and make sure that all of the wonderful commercials that you see air properly. (Hmmm, maybe I should have made use of the sarcasm tag there. :D)

Originally posted by Sarcoptic
hasen you are actually wrong...KDSM has switched so 17.1 is the HD channel and 17.2 is the SD channel. They just did this a day ago....hitting info with my Samsung box shows HD for 17.1 and SD for 17.2

yep, sorry, I missed the switch!


We ought to run a lottery to see what the real cause of the reception problem our friend is having is. It's a real tail chaser.

Update 8/16/04:)
Moved my antenna to the east end of the attic and used a compass to slightly realign it. According to the antenna site the towers are about 15 degrees east of magnetic north.
Replace old cable with new-they were both the good coaxial but I didn't want to take a chance on the old cable being compromised by being out in the weather several years. (Got satellite installation kit really cheap from MCM electronics if anyone needs new cable cheap)
I connected attic antenna directly to diplexer-bypassing antenna amplifier and amplified splitter. Got good picture but an automatic scan by the receiver did not add any new channels:(
I am thinking of getting a fringe area antenna. Unless there is something wrong with my receiver, I think the problem has to be I am on the hill.
I saw the 3 antennas listed in the post above and may get the cheapest one.
If that doesn't work I guess I will have to wait until Directv carried the digital local channels!! Or consider having someone add a mast to my house.

hhawk,

Maybe I missed it in the discussion, but how do you know your receiver isn't fubar? Have you made a comparison with a known good rx?

kc0bsn,

Excellent, watching CSI right now. Commercials are working just fine by the way. It's always nice to have a direct line, if you will, to people that are on the other end, and can relay information. Fortunately, I have only good to report. KCCI signal is excellent here. What format are you guys broadcasting in for your HD?

"Maybe I missed it in the discussion, but how do you know your receiver isn't fubar? Have you made a comparison with a known good rx?"
____________________________________________________________
Hi Hasan,
You could be right as I haven't tried another HD receiver. I have been trying the cheaper fixes so far in hopes I won't have to buy another receiver. I noticed on Ebay that even the cheap over the air receivers are
around $200.
I live in the Valley Junction area of West Des Moines and wonder if anyone else in the area has had problems with the HD reception-especially if they are on the back side of the hill like me or even further down in the valley.
In retrospect I made a mistake when Directv came out with the local channels. We had an old roof antenna with the twin lead and when we had the roof repaired we had it taken down along with the old twin lead on the side of the house. If only I had planned ahead!
Is there any sort of meter or test instrument that can tell me if I am getting a strong enough signal? I do get channels 17 and 23 but understand the digial UHF has less power.

hhawk,

I was suggesting borrowing a receiver (HD OTA) from someone to do a quick check. I don't know who you know in the Des Moines area, but maybe even this list could help you out.

I don't see any reason if you have an outside antenna, channel master, of moderate size (Lowe's sells the two biggest ones), and I bought the 2nd largest for my roof on house, and I got the very largest one for the garage mount. I use the smaller one for my home theater/HD setup and get everything solid except WOI. I use no preamp, but my feedline is only about 60' long.

So...

1. You need a decent outside antenna mounted up and in the clear.

2. You need good quality coaxial feedline RG-6...don't worry about quad shield, just get a good grade of RG-6.

3. You need to keep the length of the feedline as short as possible; OR

4. You need to put a preamp at the antenna...a good one, not some radio shack piece of junk. (If you feedline is much over 50')

Once you have done this, you should have really solid pictures on all the analog channels. If you have this accomplished, then the digitals will show up if you receiver is working and configured properlyl.

I know of no meter to help you do this, that is cheap and readily available to the consumer.

EUREKA!!!!!!

Had afternoon off so went to Best Buy still trying to decide between a new antenna or receiver. The only OTA receiver they had was the LG351 that has a built in DVD Player that upconverts to 1080i. Had heard good things about LG so bought it. Know I could have gotten cheaper on- line but did save $30 off their price as unit had been returned.
I knew it would work before I even turned the tv on. I had plugged it in and hooked up the antenna when as soon as I powered it up the most beautiful 8-1 I have ever seen was glowing on the display.
The only channel I get a break up on is channel 11. I watched the news on 8 and 13 and the picture is great!
I have a Barco projector in the same room so I think the 1080i converter well work well feeding that DVDs. It will take some tinkering but I will set it up to use the Panasonic for Directv only (anyone think it is worthwhile fixing-cost wise?) and the LG for local. (And I still get the local standard broadcasts over Directv anyway.)

Thanks again for everyones help!!!!!

You know, after reading all these posts about how to get the HD networks (get a good antenna, get good cables, use a preamp, etc), I am finding it amazing that I am even getting the HD channels at all.

I am using an antenna that has been outside the house for years, using probably the crappiest cable available back in the 1990s, and receiving the HD feeds of 8, 13, 17, and 11 with no problems (other than the occasional breakup). I live about 80 miles north of Des Moines and have trees every which way around the house.

:confused: Am I just lucky? :)

Am I just lucky? :)

VERY

KCCI 8-1 was unwatchable for today's football games!

I was switching between OTA analog and OTA digital during the football games and there was at least a 25 second delay on the digital. i.e. The digital signal was at least 25 seconds behind the analog signal.

None of my other OTA channels exhibit this delay so I am pretty sure it is a station problem.

Now during 60 Minutes the delay is gone and the digital signal is watchable with very few breakups.

Question 1. Why the delay?
Question 2. Why is the delay now gone on 60 Minutes?
Question 3. Is this delay the reason for the frequent breakups?
Question 4. Am I the only one who noticed this?
Question 5. Will someone at KCCI please look into this?

Thanks,
Bryan

Originally posted by btw2003
VERY

Well, when trying to help someone fix a problem, the best way is to start from a reasonably ideal setup and then work backwards to solve any residual problems. Depending on where you are, you might receive a signal with a coat hanger.

I am astonsihed at the assumptions people make about how to receive an OTA signal...then again I grew up with TV in the 50's where EVERYONE had a tower, a good sized directional antenna and a rotor.

It seems now that many people feel it is too much work and too difficult if they can't use a simple indoor antenna. That's just not how RF works, especially UHF. As it turns out, hhawk's problem was a bad receiver, hence my suggestion to borrow a working one and confirm it, before replacing the antenna and cable.

If you are lucky enough to get a signal with a minimal antenna system, fine, but expecting it is naive.

...hasan, N0AN

Originally posted by btw2003
KCCI 8-1 was unwatchable for today's football games!

I was switching between OTA analog and OTA digital during the football games and there was at least a 25 second delay on the digital. i.e. The digital signal was at least 25 seconds behind the analog signal.

None of my other OTA channels exhibit this delay so I am pretty sure it is a station problem.

Now during 60 Minutes the delay is gone and the digital signal is watchable with very few breakups.

Question 1. Why the delay?
Question 2. Why is the delay now gone on 60 Minutes?
Question 3. Is this delay the reason for the frequent breakups?
Question 4. Am I the only one who noticed this?
Question 5. Will someone at KCCI please look into this?

Thanks,
Bryan

I watched most of the game and saw a few break ups, but they were very few in number. I wouldn't notice a delay, because I have no reason to compare timings...if I'm getting a great pix, (and I was), I don't much care about delay. Some delay for processing is inevitable and I'm used to a 2 sec or more delay on the satellite when looing at locals via satellite on one tv and directly OTA on the other. That's exactly what should happen. I've never observed a delay of any where near 25 sec. That IS a wonder!

I certainly didn't see any problem that would make me say that the game was "unwatchable"...it was gorgeous 99.9% of the time, with a very few break ups.

Originally posted by hhawk
EUREKA!!!!!!

Had afternoon off so went to Best Buy still trying to decide between a new antenna or receiver. The only OTA receiver they had was the LG351 that has a built in DVD Player that upconverts to 1080i. Had heard good things about LG so bought it. Know I could have gotten cheaper on- line but did save $30 off their price as unit had been returned.
I knew it would work before I even turned the tv on. I had plugged it in and hooked up the antenna when as soon as I powered it up the most beautiful 8-1 I have ever seen was glowing on the display.
The only channel I get a break up on is channel 11. I watched the news on 8 and 13 and the picture is great!
I have a Barco projector in the same room so I think the 1080i converter well work well feeding that DVDs. It will take some tinkering but I will set it up to use the Panasonic for Directv only (anyone think it is worthwhile fixing-cost wise?) and the LG for local. (And I still get the local standard broadcasts over Directv anyway.)

Thanks again for everyones help!!!!!

hhawk: Did you look at 17-1 today to see Fox-HD (480p) football? I watched the Bears beat the Packers (hah!) and the pix was very good, but still not as good as KCCI or as good as other Fox games in HD from DirecTV. I still think KDSM has some work to do. There pix is just not "knock me off my chair" pretty, as it should be. (But it is so much better than SD, I'm going to give them a LOT of time before I start asking unpleasant questions.

Glad you have a working system, congrats!

I just called DirecTV and asked about getting NBC and CBS in HD since I've had a really tough time getting them to come in with an antenna. They said they could add them for me for free as part of the HD package and that I wouldn't need to get a waiver. Does this sound right?

Dave

Originally posted by hasan
I watched most of the game and saw a few break ups, but they were very few in number. I wouldn't notice a delay, because I have no reason to compare timings...if I'm getting a great pix, (and I was), I don't much care about delay. Some delay for processing is inevitable and I'm used to a 2 sec or more delay on the satellite when looing at locals via satellite on one tv and directly OTA on the other. That's exactly what should happen. I've never observed a delay of any where near 25 sec. That IS a wonder!

I certainly didn't see any problem that would make me say that the game was "unwatchable"...it was gorgeous 99.9% of the time, with a very few break ups.

I know about the satellite delay.
I also don't care about a few seconds delay IF the picture is watchable.
This was a delay between the OTA analog VS OTA digital. None of my other channels displayed this delay so my thinking is it was a station problem.

Both games were absolutely unwatchable here on 8-1.
I have 60 Minutes on now and the delay is gone and I only have had a couple of breakups so it seems to be a problem with live material. It seems strange that the problem disappeared once 60 Minutes started.

I am hoping, by airing my problems, it helps KCCI solve their problems and/or help me get a good signal from them.

Several people have confirmed that KCCI's digital signal is weaker than it was before.

Thanks,
Bryan

Originally posted by dsm363
I just called DirecTV and asked about getting NBC and CBS in HD since I've had a really tough time getting them to come in with an antenna. They said they could add them for me for free as part of the HD package and that I wouldn't need to get a waiver. Does this sound right?

Dave

Dave,

It doesn't sound right at all. You need a waiver to get the national HD feeds from the networks, or live in a O&O (owned and operated) market. Des Moines isn't an O&O market.

I doubt any of the Des Moines stations will grant you a waiver since according to your username data you live in Des Moines.

Bottom line: I think the DirectTv CSR gave you some misinformation.

Good luck,
Bryan

Just so you know, Cedar Rapids CBS also had quite periodic breakups, and at one point during the Browns-Cowboys game it got so bad the network briefly switched to a pillarbox SD feed. (It couldn't have been the station since its HD channel always stretches material it upconverts locally. It had to be the network going to SD.)

So not everything you experienced today is necessarily a KCCI thing.

Originally posted by kc0bsn
Well, not officially. :p But I do work at KCCI in the engineering department. I usually try to relay reports and problems on to people who can actually do something about it at work. My job function is basically just to make sure all the Dr. Phils & Oprahs get recorded, load show tapes and get them ready to air, and make sure that all of the wonderful commercials that you see air properly. (Hmmm, maybe I should have made use of the sarcasm tag there. :D)

Do you know someone named Al around there? :)

Originally posted by dline
Just so you know, Cedar Rapids CBS also had quite periodic breakups, and at one point during the Browns-Cowboys game it got so bad the network briefly switched to a pillarbox SD feed. (It couldn't have been the station since its HD channel always stretches material it upconverts locally. It had to be the network going to SD.)

So not everything you experienced today is necessarily a KCCI thing.

I did notice the pillarbox during Cowboy game. It was very brief. When KCCI pillarboxes HD material it is usually to do their weather/news crawl since they can't crawl in HD.

I have the game tivoed and can find the exact point they pillarboxed it if it helps anyone help solve the problem.

Thanks for any help.

Bryan

That's what I figured. I do live in Des Moines. I did go ahead and request a waiver anyway when I was on the phone with DirecTV. I guess I'll see what happens. Thanks.

Dave

Originally posted by btw2003
KCCI 8-1 was unwatchable for today's football games!

I was switching between OTA analog and OTA digital during the football games and there was at least a 25 second delay on the digital. i.e. The digital signal was at least 25 seconds behind the analog signal.

None of my other OTA channels exhibit this delay so I am pretty sure it is a station problem.

Now during 60 Minutes the delay is gone and the digital signal is watchable with very few breakups.

Question 1. Why the delay?
Question 2. Why is the delay now gone on 60 Minutes?
Question 3. Is this delay the reason for the frequent breakups?
Question 4. Am I the only one who noticed this?
Question 5. Will someone at KCCI please look into this?

Thanks,
Bryan I'll try my hand at some of these and for the rest I've printed off your message and will show it to the RF engineers to see what they can think of.

1.) As Hasan said there is an inherent delay for processing between when KCCI receives the signal and then sends it out again. But you're right, the most I've ever noticed for the delay is in the region of a few seconds. As an interesting note (well, maybe not, but it is to me) the Sunday NFL games are typically sent down on a different channel on the satellite than the Sunday evening stuff. There may be the chance that this particular transponder is having issues.

2.) This season CBS is not sending a digital feed of 60 Minutes so we are upconverting it from the analog end. This at least halves the typical delay that is present on the KCCI-DT signal.

Also, we've been noticing lately that sometimes during primetime the feed from network is actually ahead of our analog feed from the network. I don't really know of a good reason for that except maybe someone in New York wants the evening to get over with sooner. :p

3.) I don't think the delay should have anything to do with the frequent breakups, but I wonder if the problem could be in reverse? For example when I first started trying to receive distant digital signals on my computer if the signal was weak the error correction present within the software and the hardware card would try to compensate for the quality of the signal. This would cause my picture and audio to freeze and then restart from the point they froze at. I could only assume that this was causing myself to become more delayed as time went on. Perhaps the 25 second mark is the point at which the buffer becomes full and just starts dumping video/audio and you see breakups? (Hey, I'm allowed to have wild ideas after working too long too!) :cool:

5.) Like I said, I've printed your message and will let them know that some people are actually watching and having some issues. :)

On a slightly related note: The new control room for news should (hopefully) go online this coming Saturday. New switcher, arrangement, whole ball of wax. (Plus the directors and producers will finally move back out of my room!) Anyway, I think with this a new piece of equipment will be going online that will cause a delay in the analog signal as well. I'm not sure how much of a delay this is, but it may be enough to where the primetime programming may sync itself up pretty closely.

Me? I'm taking the weekend off. :D

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Do you know someone named Al around there? :)
Yep. :) I'll even tell him SnakeEyes says hi. He'll probably think I've lost my mind, but what else can I do about it? I didn't have one to begin with. ;)

Just a heads up for other Mediacom customers:

Last night my 6208 was upgraded to the 7.12 firmware. It appears to "enable" HDCP over DVI and fix the firewire output bug. I stress enable because it seems to not work more often than it works. For instance, turning the TV on before the cable box won't work, you have to turn on the 6208 first then the TV.

Thanks for all the info and help kc0bsn.

This afternoon I still had a long 25+ second delay and a lot of breakups. Then after the 6 o'clock news the delay was gone and also the vast majority of the breakups.

Somehow this delay seems to be the culprit and it doesn't happen during prime time. But I still want my 8-1 especially during NFL!!!!!!

My receiver is an HD-Tivo.

Thanks again,
Bryan

Originally posted by SamMiller0
Just a heads up for other Mediacom customers:

Last night my 6208 was upgraded to the 7.12 firmware. It appears to "enable" HDCP over DVI and fix the firewire output bug. I stress enable because it seems to not work more often than it works. For instance, turning the TV on before the cable box won't work, you have to turn on the 6208 first then the TV.

Weird, I'm experiencing the same issue. Turning the 6208 off & on fixes it. I think 7.07 was supposed to have HDCP enabled, so maybe there is a glitch in 7.12 firmware related to HDCP. Anyone know for sure?

Update:

Monday 9/20/2004. Primetime on 8-1 was flawless. Not a single breakup all night.

Tuesday 9/21/2004. 4PM- ?? 8-1 is much MUCH better. A few breakups every now and then but a watchable picture.

Thanks to whomever fixed the problem at KCCI.

Bryan

What I know so far...

ABC somewhere around August next year, not know what % of programming... Probably depends on ABC feeds by that point

IPTV Ocotber 1 (woowoo!!) Seriously, this is one I am looking forward to

NBC A bit of HD already, increasing programming as time goes on, don't know the real schedule

CBS Primetime has the highest % of HD for our viewing area, and continues to expand

FOX new kids on the block, don't have date for when the move beyond 480 will happen (does anyone else?)

PAX ??

WB saw they have the license applied for. Don't have a date as of right now. Keep reprogramming once per week so you don't miss it when it happens :)


Did I miss any? Any corrections from those more in the know?

FOX is 720p with 5.1 DD as off opening week of the NFL

Is the the local channel, or the network though? Also, is that just NFL? Fox doesn't normally look great to me. Perhaps I need to watch more?

One other thing I noted... IPTV (KDIN) actually started with their programming tonight.

xsnrg,

Thanks for the info! Looks great on IPTV. That is some excellent news.

I checked KDSM 17.1 during Bernie Mac tonight and they were NOT passing the HD feed. North Shore was not HD last night either. It was ugly 16:9 stretched SD. Other affiliates are receiving HD.

Last weekend, Speed was broadcast using the FOX digital network feed. Don't have my 5.1 connected currently, but it was definitely in stereo (particularly unsual for KDSM ;-) ) with excellent PQ even for SD. Also, the image was 4:3 and not stretched, except during local commercials. So, splicing was happening.

KDSM has the equipment and I thought we'd be seeing 720p HD this week, but it appears they are not 'flipping a switch'. I tried calling, but all I get voicemail. Suppose I'll try the black hole e-mail route.

-Loren

8-1 is again unwatchable in non-primetime time slots.

I don't understand why it is flawless during primetime and way too many breakups at other times. I really only care about NFL in the non-primetime periods.

Please fix before another Sunday's games are messed up.

Thanks,
Bryan

Hello,

I'm from the Sioux City thread.

Just to let you all know that Soundstage is on tonight at 9:00 hopefully IPTV will broadcast it. It looks and sounds AWESOME and it has been in DD5.1.

I can get South Dakota PBS out of Vermillion. I will compare the Sioux City IPTV and the Vermillion station. I have a few of these recorded.

Craig

Funny you should mention that. With PBS just kicking it up last night, I was checking that out tonight. WOW. That is what HD is Meant To Be. I mean ER looks good and all, but PBS has it RIGHT.

Did I mention wow? And then there is the sound.... wow.

8-1 coming in great today, before primetime!

I sure hope it stays this way!

Could anyone at KCCI elaborate on what was causing the problems in non-primetime slots?

Thanks,
Bryan

I was curious about FOX (KDSM), and how they are currently broadcasting, as their quality just isn't doing it for me. I sent an email a few days ago, but haven't heard a thing back. You would think these stations that are toying with the new technology would want as much feedback as possible, in an effort to improve their product. For most of the stations though, you can't even find out any DTV/HD info on their websites.

8-1 is rock steady yesterday and today during non-primetime periods!

Thank you KCCI for fixing the problem/s. This is important since CBS is the leader in HDTV.

I now get 8-1 in the upper 70's on my signal strength meter with no breakups.

Bryan

Originally posted by xsnrg
I was curious about FOX (KDSM), and how they are currently broadcasting, as their quality just isn't doing it for me. I sent an email a few days ago, but haven't heard a thing back. You would think these stations that are toying with the new technology would want as much feedback as possible, in an effort to improve their product. For most of the stations though, you can't even find out any DTV/HD info on their websites.

What receiver are you using?

What channel are you using to watch KDSM digital?

I get KDSM digital on 16-2, 16-3,17-1 and 17-2. Last week I checked 16-2 and it was terrible but now it seems fine.

I actually have two 17-1's listed in my guide and only the second 17-1 is HD so when I enter 17-1 I have to use the channel up button to get to the HD version.

I also get no guide data on the HD channel, it just says "regular schedule".
So if I want to record some HD from Fox I have to do a manual recording.

Good luck,
Bryan

8-1 video was flawless during the NFL game, but the audio had problems which didn't clear up until the game was almost over.

Thanks for fixing the problems!

Bryan

For anyone that doesn't have Sunday Ticket, in my opinion the quality of the NFL content from KDSM is slightly BETTER than what D* is passing from Fox directly. I am assuming this has something to do with D*'s compression algorithms, though I am no expert.

On a side note, anyone who is coveting a Skybox (personal vending machine):
Home Depot is selling them for $499 with a $100 gift card rebate, and a $50 cash back mail in rebate.
Nebraska Furniture Mart is selling them for $339 with no rebates.
Home Depot has a meet & beat by 10% policy. I got them to beat NFM's price (final sale price $299, BEFORE rebates). This was at the Ankeny store. I was told by the manager that I wouldn't be able to turn in my rebates, but I fail to see how the local store can influence a mail in rebate. Even if I don't get the rebates it is a good price. Rebates close the end of Sept, no idea how long NFM's price will hold. Hope this helps.

I sent an email to KDSM, and received a reply back directly from the Chief Engineer. They are broadcasting upconverted 720p on 17-1, and 480i on 17-2. When FOX sends them an HD feed, they pass it through unaltered at 720p. This was pretty evident last Sunday, as the NFL games looked awesome! I see now on Titan that there are other Fox HD programmings poking into the lineup here and there as well. Excellent, Smithers!

Anyone having signal problems with KCCI-DT tonight (9.29)? I am getting all the other stations (sans WOI of course) with a signal strength of low 90 / high 80. KCCI is coming in the 20's? Normally they are much better than that.

xsnrg,

Great news! Thanks for the post. It is good to hear that someone is at the station. Last night they switched to the digital feed during a non-HD program, following by dead air and a rotating Fox cube. Then, to 16:9 stretch-o-vision. Tonight the same, no switch to HD during Quintuplets or the show afterward.

Reading through the other forums, it sounds like Fox national provided the equipment and even installed it for affiliates. I just hope KDSM gets up to speed soon. There is not a lot on the lineup, but it would still be neat to check out some of the new shows in HD.

Originally posted by jeffcarp
Anyone having signal problems with KCCI-DT tonight (9.29)? I am getting all the other stations (sans WOI of course) with a signal strength of low 90 / high 80. KCCI is coming in the 20's? Normally they are much better than that.

Signal is strong here (at least right now). Tuners are reporting between 90-91 on 31.

For those that missed it last time, SoundStage is on right now on PBS with YES 35 years. It is an impressive show, even if you don't like the music.

Also, just picked up DISH's HD programming today, will be checking that out more. Just can't get enough HD :)

Originally posted by jeffcarp
Anyone having signal problems with KCCI-DT tonight (9.29)? I am getting all the other stations (sans WOI of course) with a signal strength of low 90 / high 80. KCCI is coming in the 20's? Normally they are much better than that.

No recent problems with 8-1 for me.

However 8-1 guide data is not filled in on 10/11. It is filled in for channel 8 so I am wondering why guide data is lacking on 8-1?

Thanks,
Bryan

Originally posted by btw2003
No recent problems with 8-1 for me.

However 8-1 guide data is not filled in on 10/11. It is filled in for channel 8 so I am wondering why guide data is lacking on 8-1?

Thanks,
Bryan

Same here, all OTA stations have been rock solid with indoor ant. Sounds like you're using an HD TiVo. I wouldn't worry to much about the guide data. I have found that the HD stations info usually lags behind SD, with a lot of "Title Not Available" time-slots. As that date approaches, things should fill in just fine. I am guessing they come from two different data sources.

The only problem I've been having with the guide data is on WHO 13.1. On weekends, it just reads "Sign Off." This seems like a leftover from when they were M-F. There are a couple of shows I just do a manual recording for. And IPTV still has a little work to do also.

-Loren

Originally posted by Xenon221
Same here, all OTA stations have been rock solid with indoor ant. Sounds like you're using an HD TiVo. I wouldn't worry to much about the guide data. I have found that the HD stations info usually lags behind SD, with a lot of "Title Not Available" time-slots. As that date approaches, things should fill in just fine. I am guessing they come from two different data sources.

The only problem I've been having with the guide data is on WHO 13.1. On weekends, it just reads "Sign Off." This seems like a leftover from when they were M-F. There are a couple of shows I just do a manual recording for. And IPTV still has a little work to do also.

-Loren

Yes I am using the HD Tivo. I really like it even though it costs too much;) It is a godsend to watch HD anytime you want and to be able to skip all those !#$!%^$^ political ads! I can't wait till the election is over!

KDSM and IPTV are the worst as far as guide data on the HD channel is concerned. Both offer zero data on HD.

I only watch Fox for the NFL so it isn't a big deal as I can easily find out what game KDSM is broadcasting and do a manual recording.

IPTV is a different animal as I am sure I would watch more if there was decent guide data on the HD channel.

That "sign off" on 13-1 really sucks.
I just don't know who to contact to get the guide data problems looked into.
DirectTv?
Station?
3rd party?

Thanks,
Bryan

Had the same problem with KWWL - NBC in Waterloo. I contacted their Assistant Chief Engineer about the guide data being wrong on my Tivo. They had it corrected within a couple of days. They (KWWL) were sending the wrong info to Tribune or whoever DirecTV gets their guide info from.

I sent emails to KDSM, WHO and IPTV asking about the poor guide data.

KCCI guide data for 8-1 has caught up to channel 8. I bug them so much anyway I thought I would let it clear itself up ;-)

Thanks,
Bryan

I took a look at the logs from this week and it looked like the encoder for 8-1 crashed sometime Monday evening. That would explain why there wasn't a KCCI-DT logo in the corner all night. I don't know exactly how the encoder sends out the program data, but my guess is that it prioritizes the first few hours/days as a higher priority and probably sends that stuff more often. That might explain why the guide wasn't going all the way out.

FYI for Sunday's NFL games: Both will be in HD. If one or the other is a blowout, though, the analog game may get switched to a (CBS quote) "more exciting" matchup. The HD game will remain the same though. Enjoy the games. Oddly enough, the closer I am to the games and HD, the less I get to watch it. :-/

8-1 is totally screwed today. The pregame was ok, had a few breakups but now all I see is some zooming in and out on a Bills helmet with no audio.

KDSM is flawless.

I tried calling KCCI but all I got was a recording saying their offices are closed.
Who do we call under these circumstances?

Bryan

247-8844 is their newsline. As per suggestion by Ken elsewhere, call that number and ask for engineering and tell them to switch to HD.

Thanks SnakeEyes,

I called and they had it corrected during the call. I hope it stays this way.

Bryan

8-1 still having way too many breakups during non-primetime.
It's almost like they are using totally different equipment during primetime since it rarely if ever screws up during primetime.

Thanks for trying, but still a lot of work to do.

Bryan

Originally posted by j lehner
Had the same problem with KWWL - NBC in Waterloo. I contacted their Assistant Chief Engineer about the guide data being wrong on my Tivo. They had it corrected within a couple of days. They (KWWL) were sending the wrong info to Tribune or whoever DirecTV gets their guide info from.
Minor correction here: We (KWWL) were NOT sending the wrong info to the Tribune service...THEY were the ones inputting the wrong information, resulting in erroneous information showing up in the TiVo listings.
After I contacted them, thanx to the AVS Forum query about bad info, in two or three days, Tribune corrected the problem.
[Jerry]

This is a letter I sent to KCCI tonight:

I enjoy the primetime CBS HD offerings from KCCI.

However the 8-1 channel is unwatchable at times other than primetime. I want to watch the NFL in HD on KCCI but the breakups during non-primetime hours make the channel unwatchable.

It isn't a problem with my setup since KCCI is the only channel that exhibits these problems.

I know it's a station problem since I get the NFL Sunday Ticket and no such problems were evident on the satellite feed of the same game.

During the week 8-1 has the same problems with non-primetime programs and after 5pm it is like a switch is thrown and no problems.

This is getting to be an old problem and one I would like fixed so I can enjoy CBS programming.

Do you reduce power on your digital station during non-primetime hours?

Do you somehow use different equipment during non-primetime hours?

Do you have inexperienced people running the equipment during non-primetime hours?

Please fix this problem/s so I can enjoy all that CBS offers.

Thanks,
Bryan

I doubt they use different equipment before 5 p.m. I also doubt the experience level of the daytime operators makes any difference either. If it's a problem with the encoders, the transmitter or the studio-transmitter links, that's not something over which the master control operators have any direct control. About the only thing they can do is tell the maintenance engineers, and even then this problem could be buried anywhere.

With all the RF around Alleman, from every station except Pax 39, nothing would surprise me. I remember one time when 8 complained that 13's Pinpoint Doppler (predecessor to Mega Doppler) was interfering with Super Doppler 8. Their engineers worked for hours trying to clear that up. It even made Rob Borsellino's column.

Next time I visit central Iowa I need to bring my tuner box. If I'm seeing this watching KCCI from my parents' house in Ames, then it's obviously a KCCI problem. Too bad that new park north of town leaves me no time to watch TV over there ...

I got a nice email reply from a KCCI engineer today. So they at least care enough to reply!

Today,before primetime, 8-1 is great.

If I get breakups I can switch to OTA analog and the OTA digital is at least 15 seconds behind. If there is no delay between the analog and digital signal everything is peachy.

It is a baffling problem with many possible causes and I don't care about where to place blame, I just want the problems fixed.

He said they are at 33% power levels right now on their digital station and all stations will be required to be at 100% in July 05 per FCC regulations.

When that happens I am sure the vast majority of ours problems will go away.

Thanks,
Bryan

KDIN having problems tonight? I'm getting all sorts of signal breakup in video and sound.

Originally posted by xsnrg
KDIN having problems tonight? I'm getting all sorts of signal breakup in video and sound.

Couple of very slight audio bobbles, no problems with the video for me. This is for the HD subchannel, is that the one you are having problems with?

I don't use Dolby. Maybe your home theater, if you have one, is causing your problems? Is any of the other channels acting up tonight?

I just wish IPTV would get the guide data fixed so I could see what the heck is on and use my Tivo.

TitanTv has guide data for the HD subchannel, so where are they getting the data and why can't my receiver get program info on that channel?

Thanks,
Bryan

It cleared up about 5 minutes after I posted that. Before that, it was choppy, with digital artifacts every second or two, even with 88% signal. All has been well since though, and that show was a very good display of the ability of HD. I was able to enjoy the rest of it. *shrug*

Originally posted by dline With all the RF around Alleman, from every station except Pax 39, nothing would surprise me. I remember one time when 8 complained that 13's Pinpoint Doppler (predecessor to Mega Doppler) was interfering with Super Doppler 8.
Interesting you should mention that. Now it's reversed. Our radar beam now gets into WHO's radome once in a while. Their radar is so sensitive now that you can often see it appear on their images both on TV or the website as several concentric circles that echo out away from the radar site. It's something about how every once in a while the two dishes sync up and interact with each other.

Originally posted by btw2003
I got a nice email reply from a KCCI engineer today. So they at least care enough to reply!

Today,before primetime, 8-1 is great.

If I get breakups I can switch to OTA analog and the OTA digital is at least 15 seconds behind. If there is no delay between the analog and digital signal everything is peachy.

It is a baffling problem with many possible causes and I don't care about where to place blame, I just want the problems fixed.

He said they are at 33% power levels right now on their digital station and all stations will be required to be at 100% in July 05 per FCC regulations.

When that happens I am sure the vast majority of ours problems will go away.

Thanks,
Bryan I'm glad someone got back to you Bryan. The maintenance engineers & GM really do care about HD at KCCI. (The GM once called in a few months ago when there was supposed to have been an HD show but it wasn't being fed by network. Yikes...now I know he's watching and waiting for me to screw up!) :)

I've actually got a good portion of this week off, so I'm going to try watching 8-1 during the day from here too. I know when I've been in master during the day, though, that I never see more than the standard 1-2 second delay on our OTA return monitor. BTW, do you have PMs turned on? I sent one to you a week ago or so but didn't hear back...

I was wondering if someone could help out with any info. I live in an apartment down on Park Avenue on the south side of town. I have a 4-bay antenna that should get a good signal up to 40 miles away but I only get a signal in the 70s on the signal strength meter on my HD10-250. I see a picture but it cuts out frequently. I've tried getting a waiver but since I live in a 'grade A' signal area, it's been denied. I tried getting DirecTV to add it but with no luck. Any ideas? Thanks.

Dave

Originally posted by kc0bsn
I'm glad someone got back to you Bryan. The maintenance engineers & GM really do care about HD at KCCI. (The GM once called in a few months ago when there was supposed to have been an HD show but it wasn't being fed by network. Yikes...now I know he's watching and waiting for me to screw up!) :)

I've actually got a good portion of this week off, so I'm going to try watching 8-1 during the day from here too. I know when I've been in master during the day, though, that I never see more than the standard 1-2 second delay on our OTA return monitor. BTW, do you have PMs turned on? I sent one to you a week ago or so but didn't hear back...

Thanks for alerting me to the PM, didn't know I had to regularly check them, was expecting an email notification of PM's.

Thanks for helping me out!

Bryan

Originally posted by dsm363
I was wondering if someone could help out with any info. I live in an apartment down on Park Avenue on the south side of town. I have a 4-bay antenna that should get a good signal up to 40 miles away but I only get a signal in the 70s on the signal strength meter on my HD10-250. I see a picture but it cuts out frequently. I've tried getting a waiver but since I live in a 'grade A' signal area, it's been denied. I tried getting DirecTV to add it but with no luck. Any ideas? Thanks.

Dave

I have the same receiver and a lot farther away from the towers.

Which channel are you having problems with?

Currently only 8-1 is giving me problems and then only in non-primetime periods.

You might be getting too strong a signal and need to attenuate. I tried getting a variable attenuator from radio shack and it didn't help me in my situation. It was about 10 bucks IIRC.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-678

Where did you get your hdtivo? I got mine from bestbuy online since none of the stores stock them around here.

Bryan

Thanks. I don't get any kind of signal on ABC or Fox and ok signal on NBC and CBS. I got my HD TiVo from CircuitCity.com when it was released (got pretty lucky). Overall, it's a cool receiver but kind of buggy. I really wish I could just get a waiver.

Dave

You should be able to see 4 stations.
IPTV,NBC,FOX, and CBS.
Those are in descending order of signal strength in my location.

In July05 these stations will be required to be at 100%.

Good luck,
Bryan

I do see IPTV (the best) but I can't even get a picture with Fox. I guess I'll just have to wait. Thanks.

for best reception (still using indoor antenae) I ended up moving my antenae back to a corner of the room away from the equipment. This also allowed people to move around the room without reception changing. I get all channels now with a decent signal, except for 5, which , well, I probably don't need to say more. With some messing around, that comes in too, but without there being any HD on it anyway, I haven't bothered to consider it making the reception optimal for the rest. My antenae is an older Terk that amazed me then, and does pretty well now. It blew away an amplified RCA I tried for a while.

Originally posted by dsm363
Thanks. I don't get any kind of signal on ABC or Fox and ok signal on NBC and CBS. I got my HD TiVo from CircuitCity.com when it was released (got pretty lucky). Overall, it's a cool receiver but kind of buggy. I really wish I could just get a waiver.

Dave

I have the same receiver and had the same problems. Raised up my antenna6 ft or so and now I get all the channels accept 5. I also live on the south side close to you. Make sure your antenna is pointed in the right direction. an expert told me that trees are a real problem and pine trees are the worst. good luck

I am thinking of switching from D* to Mediacom with the HD package and HD Tivo in December when my D* contract is up. However I have some questions for people that currently have Mediacom's HD package:

1) Is Mediacom sending the HD signal for all the following local channels: KCCI, WHO, Fox17, and IPTV?
Because I live in a low valley area in WDM, I only get KCCI and IPTV OTA stations in HD. That's the main reason why I'm looking to switch to Mediacom. Also because my dish goes out whenever there is a moderate to heavy rain storm.

2) Those that have the HD Tivo Receiver/Recorder from Mediacom, how do you like this hardware (I don't know the brand or model that they offer)?

3) Does the HD Tivo recorder truly play back HD content with the same quality that you can see it live? In other words, does the recording degrade a little from the original content?

4) How many hours of HD content can you record on the HD Tivo recorder that Mediacom offers?

5) Does it have TWO built in tuners so you can record one channel (HD or SD) and watch or record another (HD or SD) channel?

6) DirecTV's HD package has DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNMovies, Bravo and any premium channel such as HBOHD, ShowtimeHD etc in there HD package. Does Mediacom offer these same channels and/or more? I couldn't see anything about HD on their website or literature that I received from them.

Sorry, I know that Mediacom can probably answer some of these questions, but I'd rather get opinions from this forum.

Thanks.
Jeff

As someone who occasionally returns to central Iowa, I hope 5 breaks from the seemingly huge pack of stations who plan to wait until the last legal minute to ramp up to full steam. As soon as they get their future channel assignment straightened out, they'd better get on the ball immediately.

currently Mediacom is not offering FOX and IPTV. I dont have one but apparantly the HD PVR offered by Mediacom currently holds 10 hours of HD content.

Is anyone getting 8-1 now?

It was flawless for a couple of weeks then when this drizzle hit I can't get anything on 8-1 for the past couple of days.

I get all the other digital stations fine so I don't think I have a water problem with my wiring.

I just wish they would turn the damn power up already.

Bryan

Originally posted by HDJeff
2) Those that have the HD Tivo Receiver/Recorder from Mediacom, how do you like this hardware (I don't know the brand or model that they offer)?

3) Does the HD Tivo recorder truly play back HD content with the same quality that you can see it live? In other words, does the recording degrade a little from the original content?

4) How many hours of HD content can you record on the HD Tivo recorder that Mediacom offers?

5) Does it have TWO built in tuners so you can record one channel (HD or SD) and watch or record another (HD or SD) channel?


Currently Mediacom offers the Motorola 6208 DVR. It has an 80gb hard drive and can record somewhere around 12-14 hours of HD material depending on the data rate. It is not an "HD Tivo" as you implied. The recording does not degrade quality-wise at all from the original broadcast, it just stores the transport stream on the hard drive directly. The 6208 does not have two tuners, you watch what you are recording, or you can record something and watch a recorded program at the same time. The current rumor is the 6412 will be available this fall/winter with a larger hard drive and two tuners.

One nice feature about the 6208 is the firewire output. I use this to rip recorded shows and movies to my computer for a more permanent archival storage

Hi -

Is KDSM-DT doing HD now? (hoping to get lucky and pick up the signal a little bit from Muscatine tonight, to see a little of the NLCS in HD)

KDSM has been doing HD since first weekend of the NFL season.

Cool, thanks.

I know I have very little chance of picking up KDSM's DT signal over here, even if just for a minute tonight, but won't hurt to try.

This is more just an FYI to anyone who might have seen breakups and such during primetime programming tonight. Tonight it was a KCCI problem. The HD receiver was having issues working with the data stream and kept dropping packets which in turn causes the drop outs in the transmission stream. After primetime we rebooted the receiver, so tomorrow we'll see if the problem was corrected with the reboot.

Just curious, after reading kc0bsn's post, did any viewers in the Des Moines area have trouble with channels other than KCCI during primetime Monday night? Viewers in Cedar Rapids reported interference on ABC, NBC and even some cable stations during network programming. Or maybe it was just coincidence.

Mediacom has a HD recorder now? What do they charge to have it, and what HD programming does mediacom have now???

PS. Does the recorder convert non HD channels to output via the component RGB?

Any more news on channel 5? What a joke of a station. It's pretty weak when your a couple years behind every other station in your market.

I can see the headline now:

"Channel 5 now in HD along with our new powerful supper doppler. After the break, who do Iowans think is going to win this years 2012 election?"