twc just started mytv. It has been on for a week and i have yet to see a hd program on it.

isnt much of a change from Versus on 708.
Maybe well see some channels worth watching like Food Network or HGTV in HD soon.

twc just started mytv. It has been on for a week and i have yet to see a hd program on it.

They had The Distinguished Gentleman with Eddie Murphy on tonight in HD! Yay!

Tho now I lost a few channels...Mojo and Universal HD have gone away? Anyone else? I don't have the HD Tier with HDNet and such, did they change and add those channels to the HD Tier?

now I lost a few channels...Mojo and Universal HD have gone away? Anyone else? This was reported last year. Apparently, 'audit time' was late for your neck of the woods...............

i am going to get a small indoor antenna. I only need channel 4 and am in s cheektowaga. I figure being their tower is only 15 miles away i should pick it up with no problem. I have never used a ota antenna. I just dont want the picture to break up.
I'm in Wheatfield and get 4 really good on my Silver Sensor (thanks videobruce!) and 23, 43 and 49. I also get 7 and 29 good too but now that they're on D* I don't use the OTA version. 2 was always the hardest but luckily that's on D* now too so now worries.

This is the antenna I have now: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-PHDTV1/sem/rpsm/oid/158311/catOid/-15607/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

I used to use a Terk amplified but the Philips works better.

i just ordered a silver sensor. cir city has none online or at stores. I am only 15 from colden (s cheek) which is where i think cbs broadcasts so i should be good.

I've been very happy with the silver sensor. Since the leaves came out, channel 4 signal has dropped from low 90s to high 70s but still pretty solid.

Which D* receiver did you get?

hr20 for the living room. Then just a dvr for the bedroom and a standard rec for the basement. When ur signal is in the low 70's does ch4 still come in clear. How low will the signal have to get before u start noticing a decrease in the pic quality. I am just used to twc's ch4 hd. I should get the signal much better than u being i am about 15 miles from colden and u are much farther north in niagara cty

I also have the HR20. I've heard that on the HR20 you need a minimum of 40s for signal to lock in. I've never noticed more than the occasional drop out with 4 on my HR20. Lower signal doesn't equal reduced picture quality with digital signals - it's either there or it's not.

You might be interested in this site as it has A LOT of useful info about D* and the HR20 (that's where I learn most things).

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=82

When is your install?

monday july 2 between 1-5.

Bummer...at least my other HD channels lasted this long! ;)

monday july 2 between 1-5.
How'd the install go? Is D* performing as you hoped?

Can anyone confirm or deny that FiOS TV is or isn't available in Hamburg?

My friend lives there and got a flyer in the mail promising they now offer Internet, Phone and "digital cable". I told her that they'll just tell her "Oh, we're sorry, Fios TV isn't available in your area yet but we have this bundled DirecTV deal for you..."

But she doesn't believe me. If TV was really available from Verizon here now that would have made news...

So far so good. I had only 2 minor problems. One being poor reception in the bedroom and static in the line. I found a connector on the rg6 was loose and came off in my hand. After fixing that it is back to normal. The other is my bill was $20 higher than it should be. After calling them i was told there are 2 $10 monthly rebats that have to be filed. They did the one for me on the phone and the other i printed and mailed yesterday. Overall i am pleased with the system and pic quality. I love the new guide on the hr20. I would like to get a new guide on my standard and dvr receivers. Also, the ota feature is nice. Especially how the channels appear on the guide. I get nbc, cbs (which is what i needed), and abc at 100%. Wutv, wnlo and wned come in around 65-75%. I would like to get a outdoor antenna because i want to pick up cbc (cblt) for the hockey games. I heard of some people being able to pick it up around south cheektowaga.

So far so good. I had only 2 minor problems. One being poor reception in the bedroom and static in the line. I found a connector on the rg6 was loose and came off in my hand. After fixing that it is back to normal. The other is my bill was $20 higher than it should be. After calling them i was told there are 2 $10 monthly rebats that have to be filed. They did the one for me on the phone and the other i printed and mailed yesterday. Overall i am pleased with the system and pic quality. I love the new guide on the hr20. I would like to get a new guide on my standard and dvr receivers. Also, the ota feature is nice. Especially how the channels appear on the guide. I get nbc, cbs (which is what i needed), and abc at 100%. Wutv, wnlo and wned come in around 65-75%. I would like to get a outdoor antenna because i want to pick up cbc (cblt) for the hockey games. I heard of some people being able to pick it up around south cheektowaga.
Glad to hear everything is getting to where you expect it to be. If you're interested, tune to channel 570 tonight at 9PM to watch the launch of D* newest satellite D-10. This is the satellite that is needed for D* to broadcast all the HD channels they've been promising this fall.

Are you getting 2, 7 and 29 in HD from D*? You should. I've found the PQ of these channels so good that I've removed the OTA versions from the guide and now just have the OTA versions of 4, 23, 43 and 49 in the guide.

For getting CBC via antenna on the HR20, you'd have to do a slight workaround since the HR20 doesn't scan for off air signals. Since CBC is on 20.1, you'd have to find a US market that also has a channel 20.1, then put it's ZIP code into the HR20 antenna setup when it asks you for a secondary market. The HR20 will then put all the OTA channels for that ZIP code into your guide. You can then just remove all of these from the guide except for the 20.1 channel. Only drawback is the guide data will be for that 20.1 channel for whatever ZIP it's for and not CBC's guide data. You'd still be able to record, FF, RW and pause, just the program data would be incorrect. I've never set my HR20 up this way but this is the workaround that I know of. This procedure would be for if you wanted to watch CBC on your HR20. If you just want to watch it live on your TV's tuner (which most likely can scan for off air signals), then you wouldn't have to worry about it.

thanks for the info. I did another scan yesterday assuming it will pick up everything the antenna possibly can. I did not know about the scanning of channels issue. I found zip code 13333 for utica ny. It has channel 20 and 20.1 listed for abc. I loaded that is right now and am scanning. I only have a silver sensor antenna right now. Although i have 25 feet of cable so i put the antenna outside and we will see what happens. I dont have a problem buying or putting up a good antenna outside but i am am only doing it for cbc and have not confirmed yet that i can receive the signal at my residence.

with the zip code 13333 i entered it picks up chan 2.1 wktv and 2.1 wgrz. The wgrz signal is 100% but the wktv signal is not acquired. Since both these channels are the same would i pick both up but just with the wgrz showing on both? I did scan and pick up a 20.1 channel like u said. It is wutr from utica. That signal is also not acquired. Both these channels will not even show up on the guide. I am assuming that is because i have not physically picked up a signal yet. Just to confirm though, now that 20.1 is in my off air edit channels all i need is to physically get a signal and that 20.1 wutr will actually be 20.1 cbc (cblt)?

Right, if you can get CBC to come in on your antenna, then that is what would be displayed on channel 20.1 even though the guide will say it's channel WUTR. The only way you'd get the WUTR feed is if you had one heck of an antenna to pull in it's signal which I don't think would be possible due to the distance involved.

This is the same reason you're not getting anything on the WKTV 2.1 - it's too far away to get the signal.

Which channels are not showing up in your guide?

Also, you may want to start posting some of these questions at www.dbstalk.com as it is the unofficial home of the HR20 and I don't want to hijack this Buffalo HDTV thread with HR20 talk too much. Plus there are a lot more knowledgeable people there than me.

i got the hr20 to pickup the20.1 i had the custom menu guide setup and it did not register. Now i got 20.1 to display but just not getting the siganl. I even put the silver sensor outside ( i know it was a long shot) but had negative results. Now it is time to find a good antenna to pickup cbc (if i can).

for those who were hoping to catch some of the live earth concert footage in HD, it is being broadcasted non-stop on CTV-HD for the next 24 hours.

It's on 40-1 for those of you in the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area who can pull in TO Stations.

If anyone is interested, someone in suburban Rochester has a JVC 56F96 RPTV for sale for $1400 w/ warrenty in Craigslist.

anyone hear anything on the sabres games being broadcast in HD this year???

anyone hear anything on the sabres games being broadcast in HD this year???
Sure, as long as Vanek lends them some money to pay for the upgrades!

gotta hope for something

to pickup cbc (cblt) in HD do i tune into 20.1 or 5.1 on my receiver. I have a direct tv system with the hr20 dvr/hdtv. I will only accept a zip code. I am unable to scan for channel any other way. I found zip codes for channels on both 20.1 and 5.1. Which one do i need? thanks

i picked up cbc channel 5 analog today with the silver sensor just plug into the back of my 24"tv. The signal came in but it had static and the color barely came in. Does the digital/hd signal come in stronger than the analog they are broadcasting?

looking at this antenna:

Terk HDTVo Amplified VHF/UHF Outdoor HDTV Antenna (HDTV0)

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HDTVO

anyone have any opinions or expierence with it?

i picked up cbc channel 5 analog today with the silver sensor just plug into the back of my 24"tv. The signal came in but it had static and the color barely came in. Does the digital/hd signal come in stronger than the analog they are broadcasting?

the analog is higher powered, but you can't get a very weak pickup of the digital signal, and it can still be viewed at 100% quality, wheras the analog signal is barely visible with a weak signal.

But CBC's digital signal on 20-1 is broadcasting off of one of the highest buildings in the world, and this makes up for the lower power, 38kW. It should definitely be receivable in Buffalo, NY

Hi, FUCCO
I'm surprised the Silver sensor can pickup ch 5 analog; it really isn't designed for VHF, esp the longer wavelength (lower numbered) VHF channels. If it also does well for the UHF channels in the neighborhood of 20 coming from the CN tower then this is a good sign.
As far as antennae go, the strong consensus on this forum is that TERK=JUNK, and overpriced junk at that. Channelmaster and Winegard have much better reputations. I'd even try the SIlver sensor outside, if this works - go with it. With an of the air antenna: 1. Outside is better than inside, 2. higher is generally better, and 3. bigger (more bowties / dipole elements) is generally better. Going to an amplifier should be a last resort; with the strong signals from Grand Island interfering, an amp can do more harm than good depending on where you live.

thanks for the info. I put the silver sensor on my rood out my bedroom ( 2 story home) and just plugged it into a normal (non hdtv) tv. Like i said it did get ch 5 cbc but it came in really bad. I just hate to waste the money and time to find out i cant get cbc and therefore back to square one.

Are you trying to get CBC digital or CBC analog or you don't care which?

digital, i want the HD signal to watch hockey night in canada

You're gonna need more than a silver sensor to get CBC. I have a CM 4228 w/o an amp and get it only at 50% on a good day. I hope to get maybe the omni's when the up for good but I'm not confident they will come in. They are only slightly higher in power than CTV. This is according to the data available here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/index.html

again thanks for the insight. I think my plans are going to be a bust. I have the directv hr20 dvr. When i acsses my local hd channels if they drop to 50% or lower i lose the picture or it starts breaking apart. I only wanted cbc to get hockey night in canada in hd. I will just get the center ice pack and hope when they broadcast the game on saturday night it will be in hd this year

FUCCO; You are in south Chwg. aren't you? You need a good outdoor antenna above the roof at least.

Separate subject, another buy in Craigslist, this time in Lancaster, a JVC HD56G786;
http://buffalo.craigslist.org/ele/372728599.html

FUCCO; You are in south Chwg. aren't you? You need a good outdoor antenna above the roof at least.

Separate subject, another buy in Craigslist, this time in Lancaster, a JVC HD56G786;
http://buffalo.craigslist.org/ele/372728599.html

Not that good a deal...I just got the jvc 61-inch fn97 for $1479, new. (Hope I'm allowed to post prices). Haven't had a chance to figure out if the old antenna on my roof will pick up some local HD (stns < 10 miles away)....Don't even know how to connect it, yet!

I've got an un-used Channel Master 4228 in my basement, still in the box...

Looking to unload it and would rather not go through eBay...

Not that good a deal...I just got the jvc 61-inch fn97 for $1479, new. It's $380 less than yours (25% less) without any price drop. I'm sure you can get another $200 off what he asked. BTW, where are you located?

Sorry to go OT here... but does anyone know what channels Time Warner broadcasts using Switched Digital Video (SDV) here in Buffalo?

Chris; I think they can use anything they want that is available. If I undertsand it correctly, there is no assignment, hence the name "switched".

According the the boys up north, unless it is a typo, Omni TV (ch 44 & 64) might not be going on the air until July 29 2008 according to a e-mail that was sent out to some viewers.

Chris; I think they can use anything they want that is available. If I undertsand it correctly, there is no assignment, hence the name "switched".



It's not quite that simple. Any digital channel is eligible for SDV but they still have to "set things up" for any channel they want to broadcast using SDV. For example, in Rochester, these are the(only) channels TWC (currently) broadcasts with SDV:

1. 534 Boomerang
2. 331 Sleuth
3. 955 Starz Comedy
4. Universal HD
5. NY Legislative Channel
6. A&E HD
7. MTV HD
8. Logo
9. Family Choice Tier
10. Start Over
11. Season Sports Packages

I was wondering if it's similar in Buffalo.

Anyone here have a TiVo Series3 with CableCARDs installed? If so, you would NOT be able to tune any SDV channels.

I thought cable cards were federal law? How can the cable companies now just implement SDV that make cable cards useless?

I thought cable cards were federal law? How can the cable companies now just implement SDV that make cable cards useless?

Until CableLabs agrees on a standard for 2-way CableCARD communication anything that requires your box to send a signal to the headend won't work. That includes VOD, PPV, SDV and on-screen guides.

Cable box manufacturers have to provide CableCARD-capable boxes now (actually, they can still provide you non-CableCARD devices if they were in their warehouse prior to July... wanna guess that they stocked up?). However, all the Cards do is authorize you to get a signal. Current cable company CableCARD boxes use traditional hardware methods to offer 2-way services. It's basically the same box they've used forever just with a card shoved in the back (which most customers will have no idea is there).

There is no 3rd party device currently sold to consumers that offers 2-way with CableCARDs. And with no standard in place yet, it's not going to be any time soon.


In short... how did this happen? Short-sightedness of the government and the power and creativity of big business.

It's $380 less than yours (25% less) without any price drop. I'm sure you can get another $200 off what he asked. BTW, where are you located?

Its less money, but smaller and used. I believe the prices of the 56-inch jvc fx97 model tvs are comparable to his price.

btw, I live in Springville area. Just got my tv, and don't know a thing about HD or many of the other functions of the tv. I can turn it on and record from my dvr, so far, so I am basically where I was with the CRT I replaced...

As previously stated, I am an HDTV newbie. I am not sure I have hooked up the tv correctly to try to get HD signal. I have a jvc 61fn97 lcos tv. I get my signal from DTV R10 dvr receiver. There is an ntsc port and an atsc port on the back.

I live less than 10 miles from two antennas. I went to that site quoted here, and found that I should get up to 4 or 5 digital channels (it changes every time I put my lat/long information in)

So, I have several questions:

1. I hooked the receiver to both ports, and tried to hook a cheap indoor antenna to the RF in on the back of the DTV receiver (this is what the DTV manual recommended - the jvc manual is not worth the paper its written on). Does this sound correct?

2. Alternately, could I hook the DTV receiver to the ntsc and the antenna to the atsc connections?

3. Can anyone recommend a good book that explains hd and home theater, especially how to hook up multiple equipment? I am slowly piecing together tidbits of information, but I am losing patience.

4. Can anyone recommend a local professional to evaluate and hook up my system. I don't want to go there, yet, but I plan to add components in the future. If I can't learn on my own from a book, I will need outside help.

5. There is an old-fashioned antenna on the roof. I don't know any specs about it - it was left by the previous homeowner who used it to get (analog?) locals. It had a Channel Master box to rotate it, however, the wiring was cut (not by me). The coax from the antenna still goes to the basement. I wonder if the wires on the box can be spliced together, or will I have to invest in a new rotator box. Any ideas about getting an antenna specialist to see if its even worth it to invest money into the existing or a new antenna.

6. Anyone with a jvc who can explain a few menu items to me? The manual says how to access things without telling what they are or what they do. For instance, I didn't even know whether to set up my autotuner with atsc or digital cable or neither!

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Here's what I'd do:

- hook up your cheap indoor antenna (make sure it's UHF) via coax cable to the ATSC connection on the back of the TV

- hook up your DirecTV receiver (it's not an HD model, correct?) via S-video or composite cable (Yellow, Red & White) to the back of your TV

- scan your TV (the 'autotuner' thing) for ATSC channels. You wouldn't scan for digital cable since, uh, you don't have cable. That scan will show you what local HD channels your antenna is picking up. It may take some experimentation in the antenna placement to see what you can get.

When you want to switch from watching DTV and local HD from the antenna you'll have to change your TV's "input".

Here's what I'd do:

- hook up your cheap indoor antenna (make sure it's UHF) via coax cable to the ATSC connection on the back of the TV

- hook up your DirecTV receiver (it's not an HD model, correct?) via S-video or composite cable (Yellow, Red & White) to the back of your TV

- scan your TV (the 'autotuner' thing) for ATSC channels. You wouldn't scan for digital cable since, uh, you don't have cable. That scan will show you what local HD channels your antenna is picking up. It may take some experimentation in the antenna placement to see what you can get.

When you want to switch from watching DTV and local HD from the antenna you'll have to change your TV's "input".

Thanks, I will see what I get. I will have at least part of the weekend to play with it!

In short... how did this happen? Short-sightedness of the government and the power and creativity of big business. Hollywood & NCTA greed. Period. I live less than 10 miles from two antennas. I went to that site quoted here, and found that I should get up to 4 or 5 digital channels (it changes every time I put my lat/long information in) Are you checking the same check boxes at the top of the page? Using Springville as reference I got this;

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=42%2E50938&longitude=%2D78%2E67005&magnetic_north=%2D9&range=90&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations 3. Can anyone recommend a good book that explains hd and home theater You don't need one, all the info is right here if you look around. ;) For receivers, try here;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=90 I wonder if the wires on the box can be spliced together, or will I have to invest in a new rotator box. Yes, those three wires can be spliced. Where was it cut?

As far as you set, try the JVC forum;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=715594

As with most sets, you either do a cable TV scan or a OTA scan, not both. Unless the set has two RF inputs (95% do not).

anyone know why the British Open isn't being presented in Widescreen on WKBW?

It's not quite that simple. Any digital channel is eligible for SDV but they still have to "set things up" for any channel they want to broadcast using SDV. For example, in Rochester, these are the(only) channels TWC (currently) broadcasts with SDV:

1. 534 Boomerang
2. 331 Sleuth
3. 955 Starz Comedy
4. Universal HD
5. NY Legislative Channel
6. A&E HD
7. MTV HD
8. Logo
9. Family Choice Tier
10. Start Over
11. Season Sports Packages

I was wondering if it's similar in Buffalo.

Anyone here have a TiVo Series3 with CableCARDs installed? If so, you would NOT be able to tune any SDV channels.

Add in HGTV, Nickelodeon, Fox News and about 70 other basic cable channels. Digital simulcast is in SDV. Granted you'll still get channels 2-78 but they'll be in analog no digital. And I believe all new channels will be SDV like Versus/Golf HD and Reelz.

To bring up a old subject regarding digital cable coverage, take a look halfway through this thread for a 'lively' discussion;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11093292#post11093292

Add in HGTV, Nickelodeon, Fox News and about 70 other basic cable channels. Digital simulcast is in SDV. Granted you'll still get channels 2-78 but they'll be in analog no digital. And I believe all new channels will be SDV like Versus/Golf HD and Reelz.

You've verified that 70+ channels are broadcast in SDV here?

By here if you mean Rochester, I would imagine so. On TW Rochester's website, it lists digital simulcast channels as not being available with cable card. And I don’t see how 70some digital channels could just be added to the system, without the use of SDV. Picture quality is still great on all the other digital channels, so compression wasn’t cranked up, and no analog channels have been removed yet, except for next month, ESPN Classic becomes digital only. So it’s a safe bet SDV is used for ADS.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/rochester/products/cablecard.html

Hi VideoBruce and CWoody

Hollywood & NCTA greed. Period. Are you checking the same check boxes at the top of the page? Using Springville as reference I got this;

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=42%2E50938&longitude=%2D78%2E67005&magnetic_north=%2D9&range=90&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

I used the antennaweb site, I think (it was different than the one you just posted) and got fewer channels.

You don't need one, all the info is right here if you look around. ;) For receivers, try here;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=90

Will look...
Yes, those three wires can be spliced. Where was it cut?

Luckily, I found where it was cut this weekend. In the basement and not on the roof (yeah!). I just have to get some electrical tape and see what happens


As with most sets, you either do a cable TV scan or a OTA scan, not both. Unless the set has two RF inputs (95% do not).

I wanted to see if I could locate the exact direction of the stations by sight. Though there are trees in the way (from the 1st floor, I was thinking there might be a clear shot from the roof because I am located on a high point. I found them and decided to try the set top antenna I had purchased one more time. I turned the power to max and tried to autotune again (per cwoody's instructions).

I was still only showing the analog stations. I then tried to change the set to another channel, just to see what would happen, and I got one of the big 3 networks and wngs (not available on DTV)!

Then, I started fooling with the input button on the remote. It didn't do anything, which I realize now is because I haven't connected anything else to the tv besides the dvr (I left the ota antenna in the rf-in of the dvr). However, I noticed a button just below the input button with a d/a on it. Hmmmnnnn could that be digital and analog (told you I was clueless)? What do you know - I had all three networks coming in crystal clear and a couple more stations, too. I have seen the first HD picture on my set! It was The Unit, I think; something I don't normally watch. I could flip back and forth to compare to the ntsc signal and the difference was amazing!

So now, I still want to splice the rooftop rotator wire to see if I can get it going. I may be able to get stations that are further away if it is powerful enough. Its only a pipe dream, but it would really be neat to get a canadian station or two since DTV doesn't offer them. But that is over 80 miles away...

And I still have to hook up my dvd/vcr <g>

sjr14221; Where exactly are you located?

sjr14221; Where exactly are you located?
springville area

It would make it easier if that was under your username.
For that far south, I doubt you have much of a chance for Toronto.

By here if you mean Rochester, I would imagine so. On TW Rochester's website, it lists digital simulcast channels as not being available with cable card. And I don’t see how 70some digital channels could just be added to the system, without the use of SDV. Picture quality is still great on all the other digital channels, so compression wasn’t cranked up, and no analog channels have been removed yet, except for next month, ESPN Classic becomes digital only. So it’s a safe bet SDV is used for ADS.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/rochester/products/cablecard.html

I think making the leap from the fact that there are 70 digital simulcast channels to assume that those channels are all SDV is a big leap.

From what I can tell by scanning for QAM channels in the clear in Buffalo there is ONE channel on the analog tier digitally simulcasted - TBS. I don't think they'd have that one via QAM and then have dozens more via SDV.

More likely, Buffalo's ancient Adelphia system probably doesn't offer barely any digital simulcast (and I would wager that many of the digital cable tier stations aren't really digital) and barely any SDV.

But I don't know how to verify.

It would make it easier if that was under your username.
For that far south, I doubt you have much of a chance for Toronto.

It was really wishful thinking...I used to watch a couple series on the canadian stations. Those series are long gone, however, I miss the fact that I used to have access to them. And of course, if you get satellite tv up north, they have some very different programming available - I remember watching (at a friend's house) a cute cartoon called inuk (I think) about the adventures of a little eskimo boy. There was an aboriginal channel, among others. And my mom's favorite thing to do (many years ago, before we had vcrs) was to watch the Young and the Restless at 4pm, so she could watch all my children during the conflicting time period! Sigh.....

I have an older RS antenna I put in the attic a few years ago. Works ok, but depending on where I point it, it seems to miss about two channels no matter what I do. Ended up putting a mast (4-5') on the roof with the Phillips and get the same results. Get all the locals except always missing at least two channels, usually 2 and 49 when I re-position it. Don't care to go through the hassel of taking the old RS and re-mounting it and installing a rotor. Since the Phillips works pretty good (75+ signal) when pointed correctly, and it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, I was thinking of mounting two of them on the same mast in order to get all the channels. Any way of combing them? Would like to do it at the roof so I don't have to run another cable to the basement.
I live in Getzville in a two story house.

well you can do it using a regular two way splitter, backwards, but the problem is that you'll be adding the bad signal to the good signal, the you may lose more stations than you gain this way, its worth experimenting with, but if any of the stations and weak to begin with, added a second antenna in a different direction could cancel them out.

another thing you could is have them both up, and then run two sets of cables down and use a switch box, this would allow you to get all the channels, just by switching between the antennas using a box

Any way of combing them? Would like to do it at the roof so I don't have to run another cable to the basement.
I live in Getzville in a two story house.

I wish there was an easy way to do that. I wish there was some sort of filter to custom separate the bandwidth of individual channels, or a switch that detects the frequency your TV is tuning and adjusts accordingly but if there is, I haven't found it or it's not a consumer product and would be somewhere in the thousand+ dollar price range. I currently use two solutions in my home, both of which involve two separate cables from two separate antennas. As a previous poster said, combining the signal from two antennas has a negative effect on the signal, if they are facing different directions. Anyway:

1) an A/B rf switch. I know - this can violate the cardinal rule of "why should I get off the couch, even to press one button, when I'm watching TV?" Good news, though - there are A/B switches that can be operated by a button on your regular remote control. Obviously, the down side of this is more than one TV makes this a nightmare. Now you have two antenna lines coming in from the house and you need to spit both of them and run two lines to each TV! Plus, you may have to install an amplifier before a split like this if you're talking several TV's. And then each TV would still need the A/B switch!

2) A tuner card for you PC (or the much manlier HTPC) with two inputs. On mine, I programmed the channels I want to get from each antenna, then I entered them all as favorite channels. Now, when I set the input to "favorite channels," it automatically switches to the proper antenna! Plus, it is hooked up to my TV and has a USB remote control receiver so I don't have to get off the couch.

My condolences if you do have to get up from the couch.

springville area

Yeah, Canada is probably out of the question from there. The problem with UHF (where all of our HD is from here) is that it doesn't get the long range like VHF.

Here is my recommendation for you being down in that area:

Aim for Buffalo. You're not missing much if you don't get the other stations from down there (no offense, it's just that Buffalo has the networks - NBC CBS ABC PBS FOX CW, and the little MyTV Buffalo).

Get a good antenna like the DB8 and a preamplifier. Don't mess around. You are probably 30 miles from the farthest one. Mount it OUTSIDE! Houses do not make good antennas and you can't afford to lose signal.

If you're in a valley with lots of trees and it is hard for you to tune in radio stations, you might want to give up. You could end up spending over a hundred dollars trying to tune in the stations, which may not work all the time. But if you're on top of that hill down there - go for it! People on the hills can pull in the fringe signals. Edit: I just read that you are on a high point. You should be able to do it.

I'm in the Buffalo area and I used to be a DirecTV guy, so I'm good at hooking stuff up. Actually when it comes to HDTV reception, I know MORE than DirecTV guys - I've talked to them recently and I know how they are trained. So if you feel really desperate, I could probably help as long as you make it worth my trip down there. Hint: I work for food. : )

Anyone having a problem with the CW23 signal. I am in cheektowaga and am just using a silver sensor antenna. I use it for cbs (85%) pbs (85%) wb (80%). However the CW23 i only get a 60% and the picture ocassionally drops out. I thought the CW was pushing 1000kw and was "a relaible signal" how i am getting low signals from CW. What i dont understand is why since FOX and PBS are broadcasted from the island and i get at least 80% on both. I am considering a outdoor antenna but dont think it is worth the money for one channel. I am able to get the buffalo hd signals either with the silver sensor or via directv. All i actually want is CBC but have been told by many i cant do to my area.

don't give up on CBC-HD until you've tried, its not the hardest signal in the world to get, and you can also take advantage of the fact that the CBC broadcasts from the top of the tallest building in the world. Just get your antenna up high and aimed directly at Toronto

i am thinking about getting a db8 and putting it on the roof.

However the CW23 i only get a 60% and the picture ocassionally drops out. I thought the CW was pushing 1000kw and was "a relaible signal" how i am getting low signals from CW.

I think they reduced their power.

It was my strongest signal at 95%, now it is around 70%. WNED is now the highest (~90%). WNYO and WUTV are both stronger than WNLO (~80%) and one is directional and the other 80% less ERP.

Maybe TV4 Chief can confirm.

yeah i have the same results. My wned is at 90 and wnyo is at 85. However cw is at 70.

I think I will just get a xg91 yagi and a rotor. Don't need a big combination antenna, just interested in the HD stuff. With its 60+ mile rating I may be lucky and get some out of area channels also.

yeah i have the same results. My wned is at 90 and wnyo is at 85. However cw is at 70.

Thanks Fucco, at least I know I am not the only one.

Ditto on WNLO. I used to have it at 90 or higher, now it is 80. I was thinking about climbing on the roof to fix that, but maybe I can't. I'll try anyway - it's not on the very high part of the roof like my 2.1, 4.1, and 7.1 antenna is. But 80%? That doesn't seem right - I'm like three miles away! They need to do something about that - or more people need to watch CW (maybe that's why it hasn't been a priority for me to fix) - who knows?

i am in a toss up. What do u guys recommend the cm4228 or the DB8? If neither of these any other suggestions.

i've always been told the cm4228 has been the best. if it means anything, i'm able to pull in cbc-hd with an unpreampped CM4228 lying against my house, with a forest of 60foot trees between the antenna Toronto.

I'm about 40miles from Toronto, but CBC-HD has a very good signal, none of the Toronto digitals are even close, and require direct line of sight and a preamp to receive.

for cbc-hd are you setting your tuner to 5.1 or 20.1 to receive that? I have the directv hr20 receiver and have never picked it up in the past with other antennas. I just finished this morning running rg6 from the tv through the basement, out of the house and onto the roof. Now i just wait for my antenna.

for cbc-hd are you setting your tuner to 5.1 or 20.1 to receive that?
Hi all,

Long-time lurker, but first post here. I am a regular contributor in another Canadian forum for OTA however, and I do recognize a few handles here ;) .

FUCCO,
CBC-HD is broadcast on channel 20. Your tuner must first lock the station on 20.1, and then it will (likely) automatically remap to 5.1.

cheers

the tuner won't know its '5-1' until it tunes in 20-1 and then the signal from 20-1 tells it to secretly switch to 5 instantly.

Do a rescan on your tuner, if CBC doesn't come in, tune to 20-1 where it shows no signal, then leave at this station and get your antenna high and aimed at CN tower, and hopefully cbc will come in

the hr20 tuner works a little different. You enter in a zip code and it lists all possible digital and hd stations. I being inf buffalo enter 14227 for a primary and 13502 (i think) as a secondary (utica ny). Utica ny has a 20.1 channel which will appear on my on screen guide. I am assuming once i have 20.1 it will be a crap shoot to get the signal. I can pick up all the buffalo locals with by silver sensor indoor so i am assuming any outdoor antenna will work for the buffalo channels. Anyone try or have experience with this antenna

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=family&summary=summary&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&productId=2348191&accessories=accessories&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=summary&fbn=Type%2FHDTV&custRatings=custRatings&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FHDTV&features=features&fbc=1&support=support&tab=support

it is just like a anntena craft hdx1000

Get a good antenna like the DB8 and a preamplifier.I think I will just get a xg91 yagiFor around half of what they charge for those antennas you can get a 4228. Some claim those are better, but at the price difference I'm surely not sold.
Besides those other ones are imported.

Separate subject; anyone up early in the AM that isn't at work, if you haven't been able to get 40.1 or 20.1, try again. reception has been excellant after sunrise. The signal I was receiving up to 9 oe 10am this morning was well above average (+5 to 10dbuV).

99gecko; Welcome to 'down under'.

I came across this install on none other than a bar near me. At first, I thought it was a 4228, but after a closer inspection it turned out to be a DB8 with another DB4 pointed the opposite direction into a splitter. Personally, I can't see spending 2x the price for this design which is just a rip off of the classic CM design.

The 'feed' for the 4228 has been a hot topic since some don't think it is optium. I'm not a fan of a 'open' feed, but I don't like the idea of a loss going ithrough a combiner either. As far as feeding antennas of opposite directions, I would go with a A/B switch. Remote versions are available, but I never saw anything posted regarding the loss through a active electronic switch vs a mechinical version that has little loss.

Yeah, Canada is probably out of the question from there. The problem with UHF (where all of our HD is from here) is that it doesn't get the long range like VHF.

Here is my recommendation for you being down in that area:

Aim for Buffalo. You're not missing much if you don't get the other stations from down there (no offense, it's just that Buffalo has the networks - NBC CBS ABC PBS FOX CW, and the little MyTV Buffalo).

Get a good antenna like the DB8 and a preamplifier. Don't mess around. You are probably 30 miles from the farthest one. Mount it OUTSIDE! Houses do not make good antennas and you can't afford to lose signal.

I'm in the Buffalo area and I used to be a DirecTV guy, so I'm good at hooking stuff up. Actually when it comes to HDTV reception, I know MORE than DirecTV guys - I've talked to them recently and I know how they are trained. So if you feel really desperate, I could probably help as long as you make it worth my trip down there. Hint: I work for food. : )

Hello! I've been enjoying the big 3 networks with my wimpy indoor antenna, but it would be great to get PBS FOX and CW (I don't watch anything on MyTV). I am waiting to get a free minute to fiddle with my existing rooftop antenna to see what I can pull in! Its true there are a lot of trees, but I am up high. Hopefully, I won't need to invest in a new one. Plus, I may eventually cave and go for the DTV HD package once I can get an HDDVR receiver for a reasonable price (or free). Its bad enough you have to pay for the service without having to purchase equipment too!

I will post again once I've tried it! If not successful, well....

well i splurged today and got a channel master with rotor. It is getting installed in a week from today. (easier than doing it myself). They had one hooked up to the hr20 at a store by me and i was looking at the signal %. Much better that what i had. Hopefully this will solve my problems once and for all.

fucco are you planning to get cbc and ctv?

you can probably leave your antenna aimed at toronto and it should pick up the buffalo stations at the same time anyways

my CM4228 is preamped and aimed at toronto, so buffalo is east and southeast, it gets all the toronto stations + all the buffalo stations (-minus fox) at the same time this way.

if WUTV had kept their 35kW transmitter, i'd wouldn't be missing any stations at all, but i still can't complain.

well they are hooking up a rotator so i can move it to tweek the reception. I would love to get cbc hd. I have the hd20 and under a zip code for utica ny i have a channel 20.1 listed on my screen so hopefully i can get it. the only stations i need are cbs hd , cw, pbs and wnyo. These stations i can pick up with no problem. All are around 85% with my indoor antenna except for cw which is 65%.

Hello! I've been enjoying the big 3 networks with my wimpy indoor antenna, but it would be great to get PBS FOX and CW (I don't watch anything on MyTV). I am waiting to get a free minute to fiddle with my existing rooftop antenna to see what I can pull in! Its true there are a lot of trees, but I am up high. Hopefully, I won't need to invest in a new one. Plus, I may eventually cave and go for the DTV HD package once I can get an HDDVR receiver for a reasonable price (or free). Its bad enough you have to pay for the service without having to purchase equipment too!

The big 3 are a little closer to you, but the other 3 you mentioned are farther (Grand Island), which is why they're harder. There is a little secret if you want DirecTV though, and that is: they only have three HD locals. They are WGRZ (NBC), WUTV (FOX) and WKBW (ABC). You won't be able to get (in HD) WIVB (CBS), WNED (PBS), WNLO (CW), and WNYO (MyTV). They say the others are "coming soon" but in my experience that is what they always say (true or not).

Regarding your roof antenna - it must be a UHF antenna, at least in part, to be of use to you. Many common VHF antennae look like sort of a barren christmas tree from above. But that is of (almost) no use to receive HD. It should have a part that, when viewed from the side looks like a "<" and is on the end of that barren christmas tree looking part.

For people closer to the station(s) they want, I'm sure an indoor antenna works, but I doubt it would be as reliable (i.e. works all the time instead of most of the time). Mine doesn't lose the signal one or two times an hour, it just doesn't lose it. If you're having success though - you can't argue with that, right? Heck, I've even built homemade antennas that do the job of the DB2 and it's possible with a little more work to duplicate the DB8. It's not too complicated of a design (example: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9613). Again though, reliability could be an issue. You'd better do a good job weatherproofing if you're gonna stick it on the roof in the winter. However if I give you seven technical reasons why it's not a good idea, all you need is one reason to ignore them: it works. So I hope you do well with whatever you try.

I seem to be having trouble getting all my locals on TWC. I was getting WNED and ABC but lost them the last few days. I get a sub-station of WNED [Bright] but not the main station.

What locals are broadcast and what are the physical #'s ? Has there been any problems with ABC or WNED the last couple of days? Just wondering or I may have to call TWC and have then check signal strength if no one else is having problems.

DRB

I have lost WGRZ & WIVB on one set due to some apparent 'game playing' on TWC. On the one set, I'm down to 2 out of 6 (worth while), in the clear channels. :mad: These stations are on RF channels 88 & 89. All you can do is call and complain.

Separate subject, Craigslist has a Sammy DLP listed locally if anyone is interested.

As of 11:30 today I am seeing the exact same infomercial, running, in perfect sinc, on all channels (digitals 33, 38 and 39). Is there something wrong with my tuner or something wrong with the broadcasts? Isn't there some sort of law against competing stations conspiring like this?

The big 3 are a little closer to you, but the other 3 you mentioned are farther (Grand Island), which is why they're harder. There is a little secret if you want DirecTV though, and that is: they only have three HD locals. They are WGRZ (NBC), WUTV (FOX) and WKBW (ABC). You won't be able to get (in HD) WIVB (CBS), WNED (PBS), WNLO (CW), and WNYO (MyTV). They say the others are "coming soon" but in my experience that is what they always say (true or not).

So the only local channel I would gain would be Fox if I went with dtv hd. But, I would gain the cable channels, some of which have much greater periods of hd programming, so I hear

Regarding your roof antenna - it must be a UHF antenna, at least in part, to be of use to you. Many common VHF antennae look like sort of a barren christmas tree from above. But that is of (almost) no use to receive HD. It should have a part that, when viewed from the side looks like a "<" and is on the end of that barren christmas tree looking part.

There is a vertical piece sticking up. I have no idea if it will work, but the solution is less than $20 (to run the cable to my set).

For people closer to the station(s) they want, I'm sure an indoor antenna works, but I doubt it would be as reliable (i.e. works all the time instead of most of the time). Mine doesn't lose the signal one or two times an hour, it just doesn't lose it. If you're having success though - you can't argue with that, right? Heck, I've even built homemade antennas that do the job of the DB2 and it's possible with a little more work to duplicate the DB8. It's not too complicated of a design (example: [url].

I haven't given up on the idea of a new antenna, I just want to see what I can do with what I have first. Frankly, I am pretty happy just getting the big 3 OTA. Thanks for your help.

What locals are broadcast and what are the physical #'s ? Has there been any problems with ABC or WNED the last couple of days? Just wondering or I may have to call TWC and have then check signal strength if no one else is having problems.

DRB

14 = 29.1
32 = 23.1
33 = 2.1
34 = 49.1
38 = 7.1
39 = 4.1
43 = 43.1

No notable problems with OTA broadcast.

He's asking about TWC.

drb - are you trying to get them via unencrypted QAM or via a TWC HD STB?

If you're trying to get them with QAM, you'll see from videobruce that they may have moved them around. Do another scan. I forgot last nite to check mine.

If you're trying to get them from a STB, you should see the locals on:

702 WGRZ NBC HD (Buffalo)
703 WNED PBS HD (PBS, Buffalo)
704 WIVB4 CBS (Buffalo) HD
706 WUTV FOX HD
707 WKBW7 ABC HD (Buffalo)

I'm in Sanborn. With a CM4228 I get all Buffalo locals digital. The southtowns towers are about 40 miles. The grand island towers are about 7 miles or less. No rotor. I'm just basically pointed just lightly west of the southtowns towers and getting grand island fine off a lobe to the side. No amplification of any kind. I'm on 20 feet of mast but shooting through 60 foot pines and maples so I am obstructed to the south. I did go up once and manually spin the antenna around and watched Hockey Night in Canada very nicely. Oddly enough I think Toronto is a clearer shot for me than the southtowns towers. I scanned and locked on to other Toronto stations as well but it's been a long time so don't ask which ones :) I just don't watch enough Toronto TV to bother with a rotor right now. My antenna is fine for Buffalo locals just stationary. I'm ok with that.

I just checked and my clear QAM HD locals are right where they've always been.

My TiVo Series3 maps them to:

1-1 FOX
1-1 PBS
1-1 NBC
1-2 CBS
1-3 ABC

Frankly, I am pretty happy just getting the big 3 OTA Don't just settle for mediocrity. CBC & CFTO have good programming. Hustle, Intelligence & my favorite; Arrested Development. :p

Don't just settle for mediocrity. CBC & CFTO have good programming. Hustle, Intelligence & my favorite; Arrested Development. :p

videobruce, you forget who you are talking to. (I know, its not in my sig) but I am in Springville. You yourself said that chances of getting those stations (even with a mega- antenna) were slim to none. :( Really, the only attainable locals that I am missing (and want) are fox and cw.

ps i've got arrested dev on dvd. awesome.

well i got my channel master 4221 and rotor installed today. I get 2,4,7, 43 at 100% 49 at 90%. The cw still is at only 60% though. However the big test of getting cbc for the hockey games was a bust. I have the hr20 and u can not scan for channels. I found a bunch of zip codes using channel 20.1 to try an pick it up. The one i am currently using is kiku 20.1 from honolulu. I am still only unable to pick it up. I also tried for rochester stations which did not come in. I have the antenna mounted at the highest point of a 2 story house with no trees or lines around it. oh well looks like i will just get the center ice package and hope the HNIC is in HD on there.

videobruce, you forget who you are talking to.Sorry, I didn't reconize your handle. I though you were in Amherst with what appeared to be a zip code in you handle. That's why listing your town is better than just listing the nearest city. ;)
You shouldn't have a problem with GI.

Sorry, I didn't reconize your handle. I though you were in Amherst with what appeared to be a zip code in you handle. That's why listing your town is better than just listing the nearest city. ;)
You shouldn't have a problem with GI.

Yes, its purposely misleading, yet easy to remember. Doesn't help when you go ahead and tell everyone your hometown:D Perhaps I should have picked 90210!

Hi everyone. I'm a new member who's been snooping around a bit. My kids are always telling me, "Just ask, Mom!" Okay, so I'm askin'!! Can anyone tell me if there's a chance I can get at least some HD programming OTA living way down here in Olean? If so, any antenna recommedations? I don't want to waste my time or money if it's pretty much a hopeless cause. Thanks for the help.:confused:

Using this location as reference;
http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapbrowse-tbl?lat=42.08208&lon=-78.43231&wid=0.25&ht=0.25&mlat=42.08208&mlon=-78.43231&msym=redpin&off=CITIES&mlabel=Olean,+NY

I got this;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=42%2E08208&longitude=%2D78%2E43231&magnetic_north=%2D10&range=90&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

Depending on how high you are (up on a ridge or down in a valley), at around 45 miles away, the three from the Boston Hills should be doable. Your best bet is drive around your area and see how many others have outdoor antennas. Digital signals will travel further because of the higher sessistivity of the tuner and digital by nature is less prone to interference. No ghosts or airplane flutter, though there are other 'issues' that will affect reception.

BTW, welcome to the forums.

anyone know whats up with cw? The signal seems to be very low for almost 6 weeks now. I get everything else on the island above 90% at all times. The cw is at 65%

Except for WNED (43.1), which operates on low power durning the day (AFAIK), the other three are all at their usual signal levels.

well i got my channel master 4221 and rotor installed today. I get 2,4,7, 43 at 100% 49 at 90%. The cw still is at only 60% though. However the big test of getting cbc for the hockey games was a bust. I have the hr20 and u can not scan for channels. I found a bunch of zip codes using channel 20.1 to try an pick it up. The one i am currently using is kiku 20.1 from honolulu. I am still only unable to pick it up. I also tried for rochester stations which did not come in. I have the antenna mounted at the highest point of a 2 story house with no trees or lines around it. oh well looks like i will just get the center ice package and hope the HNIC is in HD on there.

Try ZIP code 22203. That one works for me.

It sounds as if you are having trouble actually receiving CBC's signal. I am in the Town of Tonawanda, and have a CM 4228 and a rotator on the roof of my two-story home. CBC's signal is very tricky to get; I have to have the antenna facing just the right way. If I'm as little as 1 or 2 degrees off, the signal is gone.

Don't trust the signal meter in the HR20. My TV in the bedroom has a built-in tuner, so I can verify that I'm receiving CBC.

It took many rounds of just barely moving the rotator, running into the bedroom to see if it's coming in, running back into the living room, turn the antenna a little more, etc. to get it in.

The good news is that with the antenna in this position, not only do I get CBC, but I also get all of the other locals that Directv isn't broadcasting in digital, such as 4, 23, 43 and 49.

Keep at it, and good luck!

WRXR7; where in Tonwanda are you?

WRXR7; where in Tonwanda are you?

I'm in the Parkview area, between Ellicott Creek and Niagara Falls Blvd.

Hey videobruce thanks for those "Better than Antennaweb" instructions! I never knew exactly where to aim for CBC, but now I'm going to try it. It's great to not be at the mercy of antennaweb - now I pick the distance of stations I want reported. Very cool.

One neat thing about antennaweb is that you can click on "view streetlevel map" and it shows you where to aim. That way you can print it, climb on the roof and use your street as a reference instead of using your compass as a reference while it is right next to a metal antenna (see the problem with that?). Perhaps there's a way to get a map of your house and draw a line based on the degrees reported by 2150.com? Edit: I mapquested my house and I'm using a protractor to sketch out the degrees to the stations I want. Supernerd!

WKBW -in DD 5.1?

Is this just for the Bills game or will it stick? Now we just need channel 2 to get on board and all networks in Buffalo will have DD 5.1 audio!

well i got my channel master 4221 and rotor installed today. I get 2,4,7, 43 at 100% 49 at 90%. The cw still is at only 60% though. However the big test of getting cbc for the hockey games was a bust. I have the hr20 and u can not scan for channels. I found a bunch of zip codes using channel 20.1 to try an pick it up. The one i am currently using is kiku 20.1 from honolulu. I am still only unable to pick it up. I also tried for rochester stations which did not come in. I have the antenna mounted at the highest point of a 2 story house with no trees or lines around it. oh well looks like i will just get the center ice package and hope the HNIC is in HD on there.
fucco i wonder if you need to find a zip code that registers a channel 20-1 which also remaps to 5-1 the same as CBC. Does it have a signal reading, so you can check if there is any signal at all coming in, that would verify your receiver is working properly

perhaps you could try purchasing a different receiver at CC or BB and taking it back if it doesn't work for you?

i got a reading of CBLT

App: 1022250
Fac: 163577
11/18/2004 64 (64) Application
TORONTO, ON 338.9° 62.04 mi 1000 kW
1066 ft

i tried ch 20-1 and 5-1 at 338degrees and all around that with negative results. I used the zip code of 22203 to accsess the channels in the guide. The cm antenna works well. When i point it south the big 3 are 100 and pointing it north i go 90%. I am probably just oging to have to subscribe to center ice to get hockey in hd

WRXR7; I'm guessing at around here;
http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapsurfer?act=in&infact=2&map.x=211&map.y=180&lat=43.0170593&lon=-78.8254318&wid=0.030&ht=0.030&iht=359&iwd=422&&off=CITIES&on=majroads&on=railroad&on=streets&on=street_names&tlevel=-&tvar=-&tmeth=i&mlat=42.98240&mlon=-78.87552&msym=redpin&mlabel=Tonawanda__NY&murl=&conf=mapnew.con

and came up with this;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=43%2E0169754&longitude=%2D78%2E8255920&magnetic_north=%2D10&range=90&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

At a 46 degree differential between GI and Toronto even though you are 2 miles closer than I am, you might have a chance with 40.1 without an amp, but that is a long shot. 20.1 shouldn't be a problem. One neat thing about antennaweb is that you can click on "view streetlevel map" and it shows you where to aim. So does 2150 without clicking on anything. Look at the 2nd last column. The center of the circle is the xmitter, the line to the edge is you. Aim towards the center of the circle. Couldn't be simpler. BTW, that last collumn is the map (only US stations). By clicking on that it will bring you the map of the location of the xmitter.

WRXR7; I'm guessing at around here;
http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapsurfer?act=in&infact=2&map.x=211&map.y=180&lat=43.0170593&lon=-78.8254318&wid=0.030&ht=0.030&iht=359&iwd=422&&off=CITIES&on=majroads&on=railroad&on=streets&on=street_names&tlevel=-&tvar=-&tmeth=i&mlat=42.98240&mlon=-78.87552&msym=redpin&mlabel=Tonawanda__NY&murl=&conf=mapnew.con

and came up with this;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=43%2E0169754&longitude=%2D78%2E8255920&magnetic_north=%2D10&range=90&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

At a 46 degree differential between GI and Toronto even though you are 2 miles closer than I am, you might have a chance with 40.1 without an amp, but that is a long shot. 20.1 shouldn't be a problem. .

Yep, right in that area. When I had a pre-amp on my 4228, I couldn't get CBC. Ever since I removed it, once I dial the antenna in, CBC and the other stations I listed come in rock solid with no problems.

TORONTO, ON 338.9° 62.04 mi 1000 kW


If that is from the FCC site, it is wrong.

20.1 is only 38kW.

Take a look here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/index.html

When I had a pre-amp on my 4228, I couldn't get CBC. Ever since I removed it, once I dial the antenna in, CBC and the other stations I listed come in rock solid with no problems. No surprise. Because;
1. It was a less expensive unit,
2. Was easily overloaded (almost all are),
3. Or both.

How do analog chs. 52 & 57 come in? Have you tried for 40.1?

All the digitals stations off the CN tower will be low power untill the naalog channels go dark in 2011. It gets to 'hot' up there with all those stations competing for a few antennas. ;)

WKBW -in DD 5.1?
I was out of town this weekend and was surprised when I turned on the morning news today and saw my audio receiver's 5.1 light was on for channel 7. Nice job. And as you say, all we need now is channel 2 to switch to 5.1.

Other than a indicator light comming on, has anyone confirmed the actual audio is 5.1?

For those of you that never knew, whicj was probably 95% of their viewers as I never saw/read anything about it, WKBW was the last 'local' to go true stereo (if they actually did at all). All those years they only did simulated stereo. They did not pass network 'stereo' (as in two discrete channels). I confirmed this with both cable and OTA on more than one set (receiver).

Why/how did I know?
Easy.
By listening to just one channel. It was quite obvious that it was just simulated by the distintive 'hollow' sound those 'fake' simulators would create for each channel.

My question now is; are they doing the same thing all over again?

Inicator light is on - Sony STR-K900

If the MTS pilot signal is present on a NTSC xmission, the 'Stereo' light will be lit, but that doensn't the actual audio is stereo!

Sound was definitely louder at the same volume setting on my receiver (30 today was loud while 30 last week was quiet). I don't know how to test other than going by what my receiver says. It's never given me a false positive before. It definitely did sound different than it did last week.

The only way to be sure is durning a prime time program that is 5.1 and by putting your ear near the other speakers and listen for surrond effects, not just 5 or 7 channel stereo, but true surrond effects.

Indiana627,

Do you get any canadian ota from your location -or do you just have DirecTv for HD?

Indiana627,

Do you get any canadian ota from your location -or do you just have DirecTv for HD?
I do not get any Canadian OTA. All I have is an indoor set top antenna. I get all the Buffalo channels OTA with it, but then I also get 2, 7 and 29 in HD via Directv.

So does 2150 without clicking on anything. Look at the 2nd last column. The center of the circle is the xmitter, the line to the edge is you. Aim towards the center of the circle. Couldn't be simpler. BTW, that last collumn is the map (only US stations). By clicking on that it will bring you the map of the location of the xmitter.

Transmitter location, not mine. Do a quick search antennaweb and look at their streetlevel map. It shows your street right on the map with lines pointing to the stations. By doing that, you can use your street as a reference.

For example, I can take the map on the roof and turn it so the street on the map is parallel with the actual street. That way the map is synchronized to what I actually see on the roof (because I used the street as a reference). Then, I can hold the map so the line radiating from my house points through the antenna - and adjust the antenna to point the same way as that line. It worked great for me and eliminated the method of holding a compass near the metal antenna (I don't think that would yield accurate results).

As I said, I'm doing the same thing with a mapquest of my house, info from 2150.com, and a protractor. It's a great time of year to buy a protractor, don't you think?

Edit: Actually, it seems that it is not a good time of year to buy a protractor. Don't kids use those anymore? Well they're probably not there because I'm actually looking for one...

Anyone having a problem with the CW23 signal. I am in cheektowaga and am just using a silver sensor antenna. I use it for cbs (85%) pbs (85%) wb (80%). However the CW23 i only get a 60%.


It seems to be up again. It jumped from 68% to mid 80s.

Yes! CW's signal went from 81% to 87-93%. That's according to my computer tuner card, which is more picky. The tuner in my TV only reported the low signal as 92% and now it is 95-98%.

anyone else having a problem with cbs 4-1? I have not been able to pick it up for 24 hrs now.

comin in fine here

i am getting everything else in normal. My 4-1 is not picking up a signal. I get 2-1,2-2,7-1 and 7-2 at 100% so i know my equipment is working. They are all broadcasting from the same area. I have always picked up 4-1 at 90-100%.

problem solved. I did a reset on my hr20 for the locals and it comes in now. Must of just gotten a glitch in the box

does anyone know why wivb is not in the hd lil package from directv

thanks, dave

Because WIVB's owner (LIN TV) doesn't give DirecTV permission.

(LIN wants extra $ for their HD feed - which other local stations don't ask for - and DTV won't budge and refuses to pay)

It's the same issue that almost kept WUTV off TimeWarner a few months ago.

I won't hold your breath about it being resolved any time soon. It's been like that for awhile.

Because WIVB's owner (LIN TV) doesn't give DirecTV permission.

(LIN wants extra $ for their HD feed - which other local stations don't ask for - and DTV won't budge and refuses to pay)

It's the same issue that almost kept WUTV off TimeWarner a few months ago.

I won't hold your breath about it being resolved any time soon. It's been like that for awhile.

Question, so does DirecTV provide any CBS feed in HD???

thnx

Yes, DTV provides plenty of CBS stations in HD in other markets.

Not all CBS affiliates are owned by LIN. And not all LIN affiliates in other markets are CBS stations.

It's a LIN/DTV dispute, not a CBS/DTV dispute.

If you meant does DTV provide any CBS feed LOCALLY? No. Unless you live in an area that you can get a Rochester or southern tier feed (unlikely). Or if you prove you're in an outlying area that cannot otherwise receive a local feed (in which case they'll give you WCBS from NBC). Also unlikely.

The local affilation retains first rights to have you as a viewer so satellite and cable companies can't just give you another markets' station.

This is also meant to protect viewers as if DTV could just give everyone on the East Coast WCBS from NYC, they would... it'd be a helluva lot cheaper and easier for DTV but viewers would lose "local" content which would be bad.

Pretty interesting!

Yes, I was wondering about the CBS-HD feed for WNY.

Must hurt when the Super Bowl or March Madness is on!!!

Why would anyone want to watch a local OTA station that is overly compressed via satellite? :confused:
Unless they are out in the boondocks, don't have a 8VSB and/or QAM tuner and/or they are lazy and don't want to switch inputs. If it is last, you are missing alot. ;)
Other than those overly expensive HD DVDs', OTA is the only decent quality HD material available.

Thanks for the info

Why would anyone want to watch a local OTA station that is overly compressed via satellite?
D* MPEG4 HD channels look just as good as they do OTA. If I compare 7.1 OTA vs 7 HD on D*, I can not tell a difference. Same with 2 and 29. MPEG4 is much, much better than their older MPEG2 compression. Yankees game on YES-HD are also MPEG4 on channel 622 and look incredible (now only if the Yanks were playing as good as the picture...)

I'm lucky since I can get 4 via OTA.

D* MPEG4 HD channels look just as good as they do OTA. If I compare 7.1 OTA vs 7 HD on D*, I can not tell a difference. I'll bet I can. ;)
What set?

Sony KDF-E50A10.

OTA vs. DTV/ TW HD

I have to say I've compared the HD stations I get via OTA and TW digital cable and I see no HUGE difference. I think the pic TW delivers is decent - of course I would prefer nothing but straight OTA - I like the price- ). I just wish you could get channels like espn and discovery hd theatre OTA !!

I've compared the HD stations I get via OTA and TW digital cable and I see no HUGE difference. Direct or with a STB?
(I haven't really noticed a difference using the sets tuner either, but not being able to do a side by side comparison, I can't say for sure. At least it isn't a noticeable difference. Possibly the only thing TW does right. :rolleyes:

Using tw's stb for digital cable - using component cables. vs. my built in tuner on my hdtv- 32" Sanyo- forgot model#

Bypass the box, try the internal tuner with cable and then the actual OTA channel and report back.
Having a smaller set, it will be harder to tell the difference.

Where's the HD for the Bills game! They keep going to the Jets/Pats game (in HD) and then cut to the Bills game in SD! It just said the Bills game is brought to you in HD by Sony, so where's the HD???

I wonder who fault it is cbs or ch-4:(

I just called 4. They said NYC is sending them the wrong signal. They've known about it since 12:30 and are trying to getting it fixed. No ETA on when it will be fixed.

Thanks CBS I "enjoyed" the 5 minutes of HD you provided of the Bills game. Next time pick the first 5 minutes instead of the last five so I can actually enjoy it.

That is funny. CFTO had the 'right' signal.

How are they 'sending' the signal. Is it fiber or sat?

They actually got the signal fixed right at the end?

Who goes for a 50+ yard bomb on 3 & 5 when a first down will pretty much win the game???

What the heck was that Bills Game? No HD, then around the end of the third quarter I get HD with no audio, then back to SD with audio for most of the fourth quarter.

Thanks for NOTHING!

It was HD for me for at least the last 30 minutes, maybe longer (I got home when it ended and could only rewind 30 minutes on my TiVo). Based on when I left my house it went HD sometime between 2 and 3:30.

CFTO had the 'right' signal. You aren't going to tell me 40.1 carried the game in HD the whole time are you? :eek:

It was HD for me for at least the last 30 minutes, maybe longer (I got home when it ended and could only rewind 30 minutes on my TiVo). Based on when I left my house it went HD sometime between 2 and 3:30.
Hmm... I kept checking throughout the game between analog 4 and digital 4 and never once did I see it in HD on digital 4. Sometimes there was a black screen with "loss of input signal" floating around on it.

Oh well, game's over. Hope Everett can recover.

Does anybody have a good or bad experience with the Direct TV HR20 or H20 receivers? As far as OTA autoscanning, does it have an autoscan feature and manual scan and will it pick up and properly map CFTO 9-1, CBLT 5-1, CBLTFR 25-1. Also is the OTA tuner an NTSC and ATSC tuner, i.e will it tune analog signal as well? Does it allow you to delete unwanted channels from you line up?

Currently, I have a TIVO series 3 HD and it seemlessly integrates twc and ota channels(analog and digital) into a signal line up and allows me to delete unwanted channels.

You aren't going to tell me 40.1 carried the game in HD the whole time are you? :eek:


Yes! CTV got the NFL over Global because they have OTA HD in Toronto and Vancouver which gives them 2 satellite HD channels on Bell. Plus they are owned by Bell.

The PQ was mint and the sound was 'real' 5.1.

i have the hr20 and have been playing with it for 2 months to get canadian stations. So far i have not picked up any canadian stations. I even tried typing in a zip code to a different area that has corresponding channels with no luck. you can delete out whatever ota channel u want both by using the favorites in the guide and by removing them from the ota channel list. I bought a h10 receiver last week and that did scan and pick up canadian stations.

also it is atsc tuner i can not pick up any analog channels. Other than this problem and the fact there is no built in sleep timer i have had no problems with my hr20

ya when I heard about all the troubles on WIVB with the Bills in HD, i remember everyone from Buffalo who has tried to pull in CTV-HD but can't. How many markets in US magically have this secondary OTA-HD station to switch to that carries the full game in HD.... But no-one seems to be able to receive CFTO-HD in buffalo yet.

fucco with your new receiver, you said you are able to lock Canadian channels? Which one's, can u get CTV?

But no-one seems to be able to receive CFTO-HD in buffalo yet.Apparently you haven't been reading my posts for the last 6 or 9 months. :rolleyes:

since u can not scan with the hr20 i have not been able to find a zip code that will give me any canadian stations. Also on the hr10 receiver that i hooked up last week upon scanning i can only get a couple canadian analog stations nothing in digital

Depending on your antenna, 20.1 (CBC) should be obtainable.

Does anybody have a good or bad experience with the Direct TV HR20 or H20 receivers? As far as OTA autoscanning, does it have an autoscan feature and manual scan and will it pick up and properly map CFTO 9-1, CBLT 5-1, CBLTFR 25-1. Also is the OTA tuner an NTSC and ATSC tuner, i.e will it tune analog signal as well? Does it allow you to delete unwanted channels from you line up?

Currently, I have a TIVO series 3 HD and it seemlessly integrates twc and ota channels(analog and digital) into a signal line up and allows me to delete unwanted channels.
FUCCO's replies are correct. The HR20 does not have the ability to scan for OTA channels. Directv keeps a database and when you enter you ZIP during setup, it gives you the corresponding OTA channels for that ZIP. With the HR20 you get 2.1, 2.2, 4.1, 4.3, 7.1, 7.2, 23.1, 29.1, 43.1, 43.2, 43.3, 49.1 and 49.2. It only has an ATSC tuner so you can't pick up analog signals. Yes you can remove unwanted channels from your guide. It integrates the satellite channels seamlessly with the OTA channels in the guide. I've had one for just over 3 months and am happy with it. I had Tivos for 3+ years before that but wanted to be ready for all the new HD channels Directv will be launching at any time now.

i got a channel master 4221 with rotor on a two story house with no obstructions around it all. I have never been able to pick it up

Indiana - Did you see the early pic's of the HR21? Nice huh- put it in a rack and you're ready to go. Too bad there's no OTA support! For some that's no problem I guess but not all!

I can get CBC 5.1 at 60% with no preamp via a typical VHF/UHF combo antenna, but it has to be pointed just right (a pain since my antenna rotator burned out last winter). Use videobruce's better than antennaweb (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7625830&&#post7625830) instructions to find out where to aim.

I'm building a DB8 antenna in my free time and if it works well, I may get a preamp for that antenna (bringing my antenna total to 3!), unless it works REALLY well in which case I may not need it. It would be cool to reliably get Global but we'll see.

Live in Getzville around North HS. Have basic cable and get some HD channels being the TV has a QAM tuner. Have had an old RS antenna in the attic for some time and tried it for HD. Worked pretty good but is fixed and a rotor wouldn't work with the limited space. I just bought a CM 9521A rotor (like the remote!). I also bought one of those LT3182 91 element UHF antennas from Aussie land for $47.50.
The antenna design is like a xg91. Its cheap and very directional, but works. Even though I have it mounted at the highest point of my 2 story home, I have been unable to get Canada or Rochester stations. I got the same results with a Phillips MANT940 I tried from WalMart. I'd like to find a good omni directional to keep from having to re-aim the dam thing. There seems to be one or two stations that are the problem when you move in one direction or the other. It seems that I will get all the locals where I am no matter what I use. If I can't pick up Canada, most anything else seems to work pretty good around my location.

I've been having a helluva time with my indoor Silver Sensor lately. Last season it was reliable, but recently I'm having trouble getting 2, 4, and 7 all at once. (29, 23, 49 and 43 are no problem and - other than 29 - not much of a concern)

Anyway, today I was fooling around with my orientation and I thought I had it... and then the RAINS came and 4.1 which I was watching suddenly went to crap.

Nothing I could do would bring it in solidly. I didn't lose much signal during the October storm last year so why now?!

But now I am not getting 4.1 AT ALL. Even when I go to TW QAM, it's gone... and it was there 30 mins ago. My other QAM stations are fine.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Chris; I'm sure there was down time because of the lightning storm.

laskol; Not sure exactly where you are, but I came up with this;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=43%2E0156174&longitude=%2D78%2E7684402&magnetic_north=%2D10&range=70&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

50 degrees separation between Toronto and GI should give you enough rejection off the side (that I wished I had) and I can't see why you wouldn't be able to get at 20.1 (CBC). Actually, 40.1 (CFTO) should be obtainable if you have a short downlead with no splits and no amp.

If you want to fine tune your location, this is what I used as a starting point;
http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapsurfer?act=out&outfact=2&map.x=211&map.y=180&lat=43.0156441&lon=-78.7683563&wid=0.008&ht=0.008&iht=359&iwd=422&&&&&&&&&off=CITIES&on=streets&on=street_names&on=zip_code&tlevel=-&tvar=-&tmeth=i&mlat=43.00995&mlon=-78.75601&msym=redpin&mlabel=Amherst__NY&murl=&conf=mapnew.con

Indiana - Did you see the early pic's of the HR21? Nice huh- put it in a rack and you're ready to go. Too bad there's no OTA support! For some that's no problem I guess but not all!

Are you saying that there is no place to plug in the antenna (like I do with my dtv r10 tivo dvr?) So how would I hook up my antenna and an hr21 to pick up stns that dtv doesn't carry?

Indiana - Did you see the early pic's of the HR21? Nice huh- put it in a rack and you're ready to go. Too bad there's no OTA support! For some that's no problem I guess but not all!
I'd like the extra storage space, but other than that I'm happy with the HR20.

Are you saying that there is no place to plug in the antenna (like I do with my dtv r10 tivo dvr?) So how would I hook up my antenna and an hr21 to pick up stns that dtv doesn't carry?
You wouldn't. The HR21 will not support OTA. When you think about it, D* is in the business of selling satellite TV, not OTA. None of the cable boxes have OTA do they?

Does anybody have experience with Dish Network HD recievers. They seem to be much more friendly to OTA as you can perform a scan and can receive analog and digital channels. I suspect Dish and DirecTV will always have similar HD line ups, give or take. So what about Dish Network?

I strongly recommend the antennas direct DB8. Its advertised as omni and I have tested it against the Winegard PR8800 and the CM 4228. I am in Orchard Park and leave it pointed towards the CN tower and I get CBC, all bflo DTV and at night I occasionally get CFTO and CBC fr.

I also get excellent analog reception of Omni 1 ch 47, TVO 19 and global 41.

I can get CBC 5.1 at 60% with no preamp via a typical VHF/UHF combo antenna, but it has to be pointed just right (a pain since my antenna rotator burned out last winter). Use videobruce's better than antennaweb (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7625830&&#post7625830) instructions to find out where to aim.

I'm building a DB8 antenna in my free time and if it works well, I may get a preamp for that antenna (bringing my antenna total to 3!), unless it works REALLY well in which case I may not need it. It would be cool to reliably get Global but we'll see.

I strongly recommend the antennas direct DB8. Its advertised as omni and I have tested it against the Winegard PR8800 and the CM 4228. I am in Orchard Park and leave it pointed towards the CN tower and I get CBC, all bflo DTV and at night I occasionally get CFTO and CBC fr.

I also get excellent analog reception of Omni 1 ch 47, TVO 19 and global 41.

Does anybody have experience with Dish Network HD recievers. They seem to be much more friendly to OTA as you can perform a scan and can receive analog and digital channels. I suspect Dish and DirecTV will always have similar HD line ups, give or take. So what about Dish Network?
I'm not sure if Dish HD receivers can scan OTA or not, but I am pretty sure they only have 1 OTA tuner, meaning you can only record 1 OTA channel at a time. D* HD receivers have 2 OTA tuners, so you can record 2 OTA channels at the same time. (This statement refers to each company's HD DVRs. Simple HD non-DVR receivers would only need 1 tuner.)

Is anything but locals available on unencrypted QAM on TWC any more? Specifically, MusicHD?

Anametrics doesn't have a headend but a building at Colonie Apartments on Sweet Home Road where they have antennas and mini dishes for their lineup. They pump their stations through Verizon Fiber optics to the various apartment and condo complexes they service.

Anametrics is a two man operation and nothing than a master antenna system that does not qualify in the Town of Amherst as a cable company. They pass themselves off as cable company to confuse new customers that move into apartments or condos in Amherst. The woman that answers the phone is rude, nasty and lies through her teeth. She happens to be the installer's (owner's wife).

The picture reception is absolutely horrid with many channels snowy or simply unwatchable. The premium channels are all in analog and absolutely horrid to watch.
They charge the customer for the NFL Network the same price they charge for HBO, Showtime etc.

I bought a condo in Amherst and had Anametrics for about one week. Canceled them immediately after numerous problems and being told there isn't a problem. The owner's wife actually started yelling at me on the phone when I called to cancel. Stay away from these people because they are a complete waste of money.

Their office is in an apartment building or is it a combination office/apartment building?

nope, that disappeared where I am (14150) a few months back.

Pretty much just the locals and the music choice stuff.

I'd like the extra storage space, but other than that I'm happy with the HR20.


You wouldn't. The HR21 will not support OTA. When you think about it, D* is in the business of selling satellite TV, not OTA. None of the cable boxes have OTA do they?

Well the whole point, in my case is to get channels that are NOT offered over the HR21. You are naturally paying for the HD service if you have an HD receiver, so what harm does it do them if you want to also connect to a rooftop antenna? As far as cable boxes having the connection - I don't know, cable not being offered in my location, but since my DTV SD DVR has the option, I see no reason why they wouldn't offer it with an upgrade to their HD DVR. :confused: They would actually make more money off of me!

So to dumb this down for me: Once I get an HR21, I will not be able to connect it AND a rooftop antenna simultaneously to the television? Or will I just not be able to record from the antenna (which is the situation with my current DVR).

I'm not being snide - I just bought my first hdtv 2 months ago, and I am trying to learn EVERYTHING from scratch. It actually took me a month to find out how to access the HD signal (turns out it was a simple button on the remote). I wasn't in a rush to PAY for HD service with the limited offerings beyond what I can get for free, but I am intrigued by DTVs promise of a new satellite and expanded HD programming. So, I am just doing my homework...

Hello all, I am new to the HD and had a few ?, but I am not sure if I am in the right forum, as this is all that came up for Buffalo. I am in Kenmore and was wondering type of equipment I may need to get for my area? I got my TV (JVC HD52G787) last year during the playoffs but didn't get any HD programming. I have Dish and was considering getting the HD package and getting an antenna for the locals but do not want to spend a alot of cash on a good setup. Any info or redirection to the right forum would be great, thnx a bunch.

So to dumb this down for me: Once I get an HR21, I will not be able to connect it AND a rooftop antenna simultaneously to the television? Or will I just not be able to record from the antenna (which is the situation with my current DVR).
I believe the HR21 is designed more for the higher end installs since it is configured to be rack mountable. I think the HR20 is the main one they'd be offering to regular customers. With the HR20, you can connect an antenna and record 2 OTA channels. With the HR21, you would not be able to record any OTA channels. The HR21 will only record satellite channels. You could probably connect an antenna to your TV and then switch your TVs input to the antenna and watch OTA that way, but again you couldn't record it. Then switch the TVs input back to the HR21 when you want to watch satellite.

sabrefan68; This is as good of a place as any.
Your TV has a digital (8VSB) tuner. You don't need any other electronics for any of the locals. If you want OTA (over the air) and if you want the two obtainable stations out of Toronto, you will have to spend more than if you would settle for the six 'locals' until Toronto raises their xmitter output probably in 2011 when they drop their analog.

This antenna (SL-4BT), a 5' tripod, RG-6 coxial cable, ground wire, a ground rod, and a 5' mast will get you the locals (no rotor needed);
http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/UHF.htm

You can also look through the 'Reception' forum;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=25

BTW, welcome to the forums.

thnx for the info, is there any chance that an indoor antenna would do the job or something smaller would give good results?

A indoor antenna would work for Gilligans Island, but you might have problems with the Boston Hills. That antenna is small. It is easily installed in an attic ot crawl space.

Can't you put up a outdoor antenna?

yeah, I can get it up on the roof but I was concerned with the snow and freezing rain affecting it, will a build up affect performance? what is the approx cost for this type of set up?

Some possible good (better?) news for HD Sabres games... seems like the Arena is going to be HD-camera equipped now. Now we just need networks to show the sames (and cable companies to carry them).

http://buffalonews.typepad.com/sabres/2007/09/sabres-home-tel.html

I was concerned with the snow and freezing rain affecting it Not if it is installed properly. Look at all the antennas of any any kind anyhere. ;)
Actually, if you have a attic or crawl space, all you need is the antenna and some downlead and a short pipe, mast or even a wooden dowel to mount the antenna from any cross loist or from the roof joists themselves.
Of course Toronto is out of the question.

Do you like Hockey? ;)

Chris; games have already been televised in HD from the Arena. Production equipment is in the trucks out back. Cameras can use microwave links if fiber cables aren't in place. The issues are what those posts brought up. The limitation is not the building, but the equipment that is being used and the uplink time/bandwidth which is big $$.

The HR21 will only record satellite channels. You could probably connect an antenna to your TV and then switch your TVs input to the antenna and watch OTA that way, but again you couldn't record it. Then switch the TVs input back to the HR21 when you want to watch satellite.

That's why I bought a dvd recorder w/ an atsc tuner built in - nice for recording ota to dvd =- mine does not but but some even have hard drives built in too. Yes an HD Dvr is nicer but since D*'s new dvr has completely ommitted RF inputs for OTA - it's better than nothing!

I believe the HR21 is designed more for the higher end installs since it is configured to be rack mountable. I think the HR20 is the main one they'd be offering to regular customers. With the HR20, you can connect an antenna and record 2 OTA channels. With the HR21, you would not be able to record any OTA channels. The HR21 will only record satellite channels. You could probably connect an antenna to your TV and then switch your TVs input to the antenna and watch OTA that way, but again you couldn't record it. Then switch the TVs input back to the HR21 when you want to watch satellite.

thanks. I thought the hr21 would be replacing the hr20. As long as the hr20 is sufficient to receive all the promised new hd channels, I would be happy to go that route.

thanks. I thought the hr21 would be replacing the hr20. As long as the hr20 is sufficient to receive all the promised new hd channels, I would be happy to go that route.
Yes, the HR20 (HD DVR) and the H20 (HD non-DVR) are both sufficient to receive the new HD channels D* will be offering. Both are MPEG4 compatible.

i have the hr20 and have been playing with it for 2 months to get canadian stations. So far i have not picked up any canadian stations. I even tried typing in a zip code to a different area that has corresponding channels with no luck. you can delete out whatever ota channel u want both by using the favorites in the guide and by removing them from the ota channel list. I bought a h10 receiver last week and that did scan and pick up canadian stations.

So are you saying that you can receive 20.1? If that's the case, use ZIP code 22203 on your HR20. That's what I use, and I can tell you that it works. The guide will of course be wrong; it will show up as FOX.

PBS is broadcasting all 15 1/2 hours of Ken Burn's "The War" in "High Definition" beginning September 23rd on their over-the-air digital station 43.1. It took Ken over 6 years to film the WW II documentary covering 1941 - 1945. Also on the 23rd PBS is broadcasting "No Price Too High", another WW II documentary, on their over-the-air digital station 43.2.

Cable, Satellite and FIOS DO NO CARRY the digital over the air PBS stations. They can only be received with an over the air antenna. The PBS feed carried by cable, satellite and FIOS may carry the WAR with reduced resolution.

September:
23: A Necessary War
24: When Things Get Tough
25: A Deadly Calling
26: Pride of our Nation
30: Fubar
October:
1: The Ghost Front
2: A World Without War

Was this documentary produced in HD? The first paragraph didn't say.

The second paragraph is incorrect. My local cable provider (TWC) carries multiple local PBS digital channels with full HD resolution.

Chris; games have already been televised in HD from the Arena. Production equipment is in the trucks out back. Cameras can use microwave links if fiber cables aren't in place. The issues are what those posts brought up. The limitation is not the building, but the equipment that is being used and the uplink time/bandwidth which is big $$.

Right. We went thru all this back in the spring :)

But it certainly can't HURT chances of MORE games being shown in HD LOCALLY (ie: not via OTA from Canada) if the facilities at the Arena are upgraded too.

Cable, Satellite and FIOS DO NO CARRY the digital over the air PBS stations. They can only be received with an over the air antenna. The PBS feed carried by cable, satellite and FIOS may carry the WAR with reduced resolution.

Your channel numbers and what cable companies carry PBS would be a local issue.

just for everyones info, OMNI-1 (64-1) and OMNI-2 (44-1) are now broadcasting again digitally off-air

Right. We went thru all this back in the spring yes, we did. ;)
The only change I would think is a cableing upgrade for cameras that are hard wired, especially in house, which is another story altogether.

canada_habs2004; How strong? We would never be able to get 44 unless they went full power, not with 43 where it is. How does CHCH come in where you are?

yes, we did. ;)
The only change I would think is a cableing upgrade for cameras that are hard wired, especially in house, which is another story altogether.

canada_habs2004; How strong? We would never be able to get 44 unless they went full power, not with 43 where it is. How does CHCH come in where you are?

I'm hoping to get them - even at 15kw - Hopefully I will be able to get them. CBC has been very decent for me lately - and I would certainly hope I can get CH in the spring -according to remote central their new live date April '08 as their power is even closer to CBC.

With 17 where it is, trying to receive ch 18 will probably be a lost cause especially for anyone in NT (same direction), but you will never know until the time they are up and running.

For anyone that hasen't seen this (even better than 2150 :eek: );
http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/index.html

I know- still hoping! I did get Omni 1 back in the fall last year when they were testing. I was surprised! I get cbc regularly at 50% or so. I wish all the canadian stations had the power they do!

Your right in line with Hamiliton, I have some separation, so I'm hoping I will have a chance. Of course, after 2/09 it won't be a problem when analog 17 goes dark.
As far as digital 44, I can't see any way except after 2011 (when the CN tower stations up their power) that anyone here will be able to receive 44 (or 64 for that matter) except for ones well east or north of the city (away from the GI problem), but stranger things have happened.

FWIW, digital 64 was reconized by my set last year briefly and if I remember correctly, I did see it once, but it was only a 'fleeting' moment since I wasn't looking for it, I just passed by. Haven't seen it since.

just for everyones info, OMNI-1 (64-1) and OMNI-2 (44-1) are now broadcasting again digitally off-air

Omni 1 and Omni 2 were down again shortly after going up. They seemed to be only testing their transmitters again. This is based on the fact their were similar characteristics in their PSIP data as last fall when they were testing.

The regulatory/licensing body in Canada, the CRTC, has recently granted them both a 1-year extension to 29 July 2008, to commence operation of the transitional digital television programming undertaking

As well, the CRTC seems to hand out extensions like candy. In other words, don't hold your breath for these stations.

does anyone here know when FIOS will be available in Williamsville? there was talk about it earlier but I havent heard anything since.

Some possible good (better?) news for HD Sabres games... seems like the Arena is going to be HD-camera equipped now. Now we just need networks to show the sames (and cable companies to carry them).

http://buffalonews.typepad.com/sabres/2007/09/sabres-home-tel.htmlHate to bring up this, but where is the orginal article that this "blog" came from?? I did a search and it turned up nothing.

The orginal cables in the arena are in bad shape, especially the audio. The video is only coxial, nothing more, as in composite video. The audio is full of hum and ground loops due to to many junction boxes. Actually, it wasn't done correctly from the start.
(Very, very good source)

BTW, automated equipment isn't as 'automated' as some people think (regarding a certain sporting event of recent ;) )

Hate to bring up this, but where is the orginal article that this "blog" came from?? I did a search and it turned up nothing.


There was no article, it was content written for the blog. However, the blog is written by a News reporter.

does anyone here know when FIOS will be available in Williamsville? there was talk about it earlier but I havent heard anything since.

FiOS, or FiOS TV?

FiOS, meaning fast Internet, can be installed and offered whenever Verizon wants to. FiOS TV requires local agreements to be reached, of which, as far as I know, Verizon hasn't even begun to entertain the thought of in this area. (short answer: no time remotely soon)

Most likely Verizon is going to put their attention to trying to get a deal with the state, not each local municipality.

There was no article, it was content written for the blog. However, the blog is written by a News reporter.That about says it all. When has the News gotten something right let alone some rebel reporter putting his $.02 into it?
I think I waill enter a blog that there are plans into turning Amherst into a parking lot. does anyone here know when FIOS will be available in Williamsville?The day after the HSBC arena gets fiber..................

i'm talking about FIOS internet. i cant stand this time warner cable internet anymore.

whats this HSBC joke? are you serious about that or just messing around as if its not gonna happen for a long time?

I didn't post the orginal link.
Until I see more proof, I don't buy it. Sounds as just another rumor. If it was true, where is the story/article?

Separate subject;
For kicks and giggles, I turned the house towards Rochester tonight and low and behold, I managed to receive ch 45.1 (WROC) & 58.1 (WHEC). Then to my surprise I wasn't able to get ch 59.1 (WHAM), which surprised me since they are listed as 1,000kW alone with 45.1. 58.1 is listed at half that ERP.
Though it wasn't a surprise that I couldn't get 16.1 (WXXI) or 28.1 (WUHF) because of their lower power and the fact I have both a ch.17 & ch.29 trap in line for the GI problem stations (overload).
Has anyone else tried Rochester lately??

I didn't post the orginal link.
Until I see more proof, I don't buy it. Sounds as just another rumor. If it was true, where is the story/article?


Just FYI: the same editorial judgements and oversight are used in the blogs that are used in articles that you see in print / on the web. "Rogue" reporters are not just allowed to "print" whatever they want.

Just because a story was written in a blog vs. being written as an "article" means nothing about the accuracy of the reporting. The same people who write the articles write the blogs. And their names are on the blogs. They're not about to ruin their reputation by reporting things they haven't researched properly.

Why wasn't this news reported in a story? Probably because it's not of interest to a large number of people and/or because there simply isn't room to put EVERYTHING in print.


However... I think the previous poster was actually referring to your joke that FiOS Internet wouldn't come to Williamsville until after the Arena gets fiber.

Max - I'm pretty sure Bruce was just joking and meant it's gonna be a long time. Although Williamsville seems like it would be a profitable market for Verizon so I'm not sure why Bruce thinks that.

FIOS as in TV or just internet/phone?

He said just Internet; he wants to switch from Time Warner.

I thought this was a 'TV' forum.
It's been posted that the Main St. CO is being wired, but no other plans were known at the time. Depending if he is actually in Williamsville or in Amherst or Clarence since that silly 21 zip code covers three towns, part of the Mian St CO does go out to Amherst..
I would say areas that haven't been upgraded with fiber nodes (older, more dense areas) will be the ones to get upgraded first.

Sabres in HD was mentioned in Saturday's paper:

"The Buffalo Sabres' picture has brightened for many hockey fans with the announcement that the team's home games carried on MSG via Time Warner this season will be carried in high definition..."

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_action=doc&p_docid=11BB1F22AD9F88F0&p_docnum=1
Scroll down about half way to read the entire section. Whether this means it's legit, I don't know.

Bad link.

yeh i'm just talking about internet/phone, not TV. and sorry i'm asking but theres really no other place to ask.

i live on south forest rd. in williamsville, is that an area covered by the main st. co?

Bad link.
Hmm, link only good for a short time I guess. Copy and paste from that Alan Pergament column (Sports section page 2) on 9/15:

"The Buffalo Sabres' picture has brightened for many hockey fans with the announcement that the team's home games carried on MSG via Time Warner this season will be carried in high definition (not on satellite). Larry Quinn, the Sabres' managing partner, said the team is going to transmit an HD signal and produce the games in HD. Time Warner plans to put the games on a separate HD channel for the fans with the expensive sets.

Quinn said the plans to carry the games in HD were accelerated by the decision to put in a new HD scoreboard in HSBC Arena. "It just made sense to try and produce the games in HD at the same time," he said."

Take from this what you will.

Also: http://www.letsgosabres.com/pressbox/fullstory.php?newsid=10418

since directv is going to carry msg hd i hope they will have the games as well

Here's the story:

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/alanpergament/story/163250.html

I wonder what this means "Time Warner plans to put the games on a separate HD channel for the fans with the expensive sets."

Not on MSN-HD? What will this channel cost? Will it be free-QAM? (unlikely :( )

What does not on sat mean??? I hope since directv is getting msghd turned on they will cover the games in hd.

The Buffalo Sabres’ picture has brightened for many hockey fans with the announcement that the team’s home games carried on MSG via Time Warner this season will be carried in high definition (not on satellite). Larry Quinn, the Sabres’ managing partner, said the team is going to transmit an HD signal and produce the games in HD. Time Warner plans to put the games on a separate HD channel for the fans with the expensive sets.

CFTO- From NT!

Is there more tropo tonight? I'm getting CTV - w/ no pre-amp! Maybe roch will come in later tonight too!

It's going on tonight - I'm getting 8, 10, 13 from Roch too!

What does not on sat mean??? I hope since directv is getting msghd turned on they will cover the games in hd.
Let's hope so.

i live on south forest rd. in williamsville, is that an area covered by the main st. co? That area should be covered by the Cayuga Rd. CO.

The Buffalo Sabres’ picture has brightened for many hockey fans with the announcement that the team’s home games carried on MSG via Time Warner this season will be carried in high definition (not on satellite). Larry Quinn, the Sabres’ managing partner, said the team is going to transmit an HD signal and produce the games in HD. Time Warner plans to put the games on a separate HD channel for the fans with the expensive sets.

Quinn said the plans to carry the games in HD were accelerated by the decision to put in a new HD scoreboard in HSBC Arena. “It just made sense to try and produce the games in HD at the same time,” he said. Man, there are the same number of ways to interpert that as there are pages in this thread. :rolleyes:

Piece by piece; team’s home games carried on MSG via Time Warner this season will be carried in high definition (not on satellite). Tells me MSG will have a production compnay come in, run cables and broadcast it on MSG on cable TV, not on satellite. the team is going to transmit an HD signal and produce the games in HD. Which could mean;
1. The Sabres will hire a production company to came in and do the same,
2. and/or have a contractor come in a re-wire the building for fiber/triax (etc.) and pay a production company a lower rate (since the cables are already there) to broadcast the games,
3. Or get Squeeky Wheel to come in with a couple of Beta3 camcorders and tape the game. :D Time Warner plans to put the games on a separate HD channel for the fans with the expensive sets. All you people with 'cheap' TVs' won't get it. :p
That one is the best.

That last one could mean;
1. You have to have a HD set (natually) with a QAM tuner,
2. or the above with a CC slot
3. or a STB along with a HDTV.

That article is so stupid it's funny...............

I don't think you get the point. The vast majority of readers don't care whether the Sabres will hire a production company or if the building is being re-wired.

For those types of details, read an electronics magazine.

The main point is: HD broadcasts inside people's living rooms. That's all people care about.

Comcast out here in SF Bay Area carries only 1 PBS HD channel, KQED, with 3 other PBS channels being 16x9 SD. Still, looking forward to watching The War. A preview for The War looked to be filmed in HD, with preview segments also in HD.

I'm really looking forward to this series. It's something I'm going to try very hard to convince my kids to watch.

I heard a rumor of political correctness in it - that will be an interesting to see how that plays out.

So it appears that each episode will fit on a 150 minute D-VHS tape. Fantastic!

In the Puget Sound area Comcast carries both the HD and SD digital PBS stations.

Great job! to the engineers at The CW 23 for not switching to HD for the entire premiere of Gossip Girl last night!

Maybe they'll get it right on the repeat on Sunday night?

I'm really looking forward to this series. It's something I'm going to try very hard to convince my kids to watch.

I heard a rumor of political correctness in it - that will be an interesting to see how that plays out.

The alleged "political correctness" charge came about when Mr Burns reportedly added material about Hispanic-American troops following protests that they had not been mentioned in the original completed product.

Ken Burns was at the University of Minnesota talking about this series and said that except for one tiny scene, all the footage are authentic (no recreations with actors). Our local PBS-HD station will be airing the first episode four times in a span of 11 hours this Sunday.

I hope kids do watch this series. According to Ken Burns, "...too many graduating high school seniors think we fought with the Germans against the Russians in WWII."

(SNIP)
I hope kids do watch this series. According to Ken Burns, "...too many graduating high school seniors think we fought with the Germans against the Russians in WWII."

The irony of that is that after the fighting stopped in Europe there was allegedly some urging -- led by Winston Churchill and some German generals -- that we do just that.

Had we not had other business to take care of in the Pacific, who knows what might have happened.

The irony of that is that after the fighting stopped in Europe there was allegedly some urging -- led by Winston Churchill and some German generals -- that we do just that.

Had we not had other business to take care of in the Pacific, who knows what might have happened.

..and Patton wanted to send his tanks onto Moscow!

I just 'upgraded' to a cm4221 from a terk hd-tvs with some strange results.

The reason for the upgrade was simple, I wasn't getting fox, nbc or cbs reliably and knew that I should be able to despite what antenna web said (see results below for more background info). I did check out the other instructions posted on these forums and found it to be more useful.

Anyways, my setup now includes (from the top down) the cm4221 attached to a radioshack pre-amplifier, about 100 ft. of coaxial cable, ac power supply, then the vip 622 then the westy lvm-42w2. I have some pretty thick trees directly between my antenna (approximately 40 ft. from the antenna) and the transmitter. My house is two stories with the antenna on a 10 foot mast and a tri-pod (totaling about 12-14 foot above my roof).

Here is what i was receiving with the above setup w/the terk instead of the cm:
wnyb: 100% - extremely stable
cbs: 74% - very unstable, especially during sunday football games - strange
abc: 100% - rock solid
nbc: 64% - very unstable
fox: almost never received this signal
wnlo: 78% - mostly stable
wned: 87% - mostly stable
wb: couldn't even get a lock on the signal

Now with the new channel master (both antennas point in the exact same direction):
wnyb: 91% - still stable and I never watch it anyways
cbs: 100% - now my most stable station, very happy this workedout
abc: 88% - still stable but was dropping down to the high 70s at night
nbc: 66% - fairly stable, seems to drop out in the morning hours
fox: 76% - stable and a much larger gain then i could have hoped for
wnlo: 74% - mostly stable, but don't really watch the station much
wned: 85% - pretty much the same as the previous setup
wb: 66ish - very unstable, pretty much a crap shoot, but i didn't even get a lock before.

Sorry this is getting so long. . .My main question is, would upgrading the preamp to a cm7777 help me with channel dropouts. I know how you guys like to flame the radioshack stuff and I tend to agree. I am definitely happy with what the cm4221 has done for me, but I still get dropouts of nbc much more frequently than I would like. Also, why do you think I lost signal strength from wnyb and abc but gained so much from cbs (which is what I hoped for). One last question, do you think a rotor would be useful?

Anyways, thanx for the help in advacne!!!

My data from antenna web is attached.

This Ken Burns series certainly seems to be one of the major events of this, or any, TV season.

Here are just a few of the stories about "The War" which have been posted in the "Hot Off The Press" sticky in the past weeks.

(Many more will be posted between now and Sunday evening.)

Ken Burns' magnificent 'The War' brings World War 2 home
From Maureen Ryan’s Chicago Tribune blog “The Watcher”

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11679864&postcount=8923

A good 'War' made better
By Aaron Barnhart The Kansas City Star

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11662172&postcount=8829

Another War, Another Epic From Ken Burns
By Elizabeth Jensen The New York Times
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11640950&postcount=8654

Ken Burns returns with “The War”, fifteen hours on WWII. Does the Greatest Generation make for great TV?
By John Leonard New York Magazine

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11493092&postcount=7917

Ken Burns' World War II documentary focuses on life in America
By MIKE McDANIEL Houston Chronicle
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11028236&postcount=5654

Ken Burns and the Old Soldiers Who Wouldn't Fade Away

By Lisa de Moraes Washington Post Staff Writer

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11011185&postcount=5545

My main question is, would upgrading the preamp to a cm7777 help me with channel dropouts.

Did you try without the pre-amp. I had the same problem.

BTW the RS amp sucks (too much noise). A 7777 or 7775 is way better.

And another, with some video from the series and an interview with Burns:

The realities of 'War'

By Robert Lloyd Los Angeles Times Staff Writer September 21, 2007

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11684614&postcount=8958

jjm1024; It would help if you had your town listed under your username.

dsspredator, I had the terk antenna originally setup without a preamp and only got abc and wnyb consistently, so I don't think losing the amp would help. . .although it would be a quick exercise to try.

Sorry about the lack of location, it's there now.

Thanks again for any suggestions.

I'm torn on this one. On the one hand I want to watch it. On the other hand, the new Fall season is starting now.

Having watched the "Why We Fight Series", Victory At Sea" and others, I think I will opt for the new HD season plus Fall sports. I understand the series does not include the Naval side of the war, which always interested me the most.

In addition, there are several books I want to read plus, of course, my internet time. God forbid I might even spend some time outdoors.

Was this documentary produced in HD? The first paragraph didn't say.

As always, this was produced on film (much of it original footage as I understand it) by Mr. Burns. It was then turned into HD video as any other film would be.

SMK

PBS IS CASH POOR- in HOUSTON they abandoned hd- pitiful national liberal station- they suck up to NYC,CHICAGO AND LA- THEY HATE THE SOUTH JUST LIKE THE NYTIMES. PBS CAN GO TO HELL.

I've lived in Houston, and a couple other of the big four Texas markets. I now live in the "south"...

Houston is NOT the "south", not even close, and most of Texas would be glad to be rid of it....worst big city in the country. Good food though !!!

PBS stations are supported by local viewers making donations. If your station can't afford something you like, blame yourself and your neighbors.

Really? are you sure? I see program 'mentions' that look alot like commercials..Plus PBS operates on tax dollars while the on-air talent beg for money at least 2 or 3 times a year.

ps- anyone hungry for Mcdonalds?

PBS member stations pay for programming they receive from the network, in addition to the normal expenses for station personnel, electricity, etc. The commercials help pay to produce the content, but the majority of the station's income that pays for acquiring the content and running the station comes directly from viewers and corporate sponsors, not from tax dollars.

Been looking forward to this one for a while now. Set the DVR tonight so I am ready to go!! I really enjoyed the Civil War, Baseball and the Jack Johnson films he did.

If you enjoyed those others you should search out his documentary on the building of the Brooklyn Bridge. As I recall it was his first documentary and really set the standard for all the others to follow. It is an immensely enjoyable documentary showing the enormity of the project and the toll it took on those who built it. It is on DVD, and it is probably available in a local library.

SMK

PBS member stations pay for programming they receive from the network, in addition to the normal expenses for station personnel, electricity, etc. The commercials help pay to produce the content, but the majority of the station's income that pays for acquiring the content and running the station comes directly from viewers and corporate sponsors, not from tax dollars.


Right, keep drinking that kool aid. Did member donations help build out the full power DTV facilities nationwide before most commerical stations had a low power signal on the air?
The facts are member donations account for less than 20 percent of PBS total yearly revenue. And while they enjoy thier non profit status they are allowed to run (for all intents & purposes) commercials! also, they use our tax dollars, and still find it necessary to beg for money.

More info from the pbs website:

"In 2005, public television licensees reported annual revenues of $1.8 billion, of which 15 percent came from federal sources and the rest from a variety of nonfederal sources including individuals, businesses, and state and local governments. Federal funds help licensees leverage funds from nonfederal sources. Thirty of 54 licensees GAO interviewed said that cuts in federal funding could lead to a reduction in staff, local programming, or services. In general, smaller licensees receive a higher percent of revenue from federal sources and 11 said that cuts in federal support might force the station to shut down.

Right, keep drinking that kool aid. Did member donations help build out the full power DTV facilities nationwide before most commerical stations had a low power signal on the air?
The facts are member donations account for less than 20 percent of PBS total yearly revenue. And while they enjoy thier non profit status they are allowed to run (for all intents & purposes) commercials! also, they use our tax dollars, and still find it necessary to beg for money.

More info from the pbs website:

"In 2005, public television licensees reported annual revenues of $1.8 billion, of which 15 percent came from federal sources and the rest from a variety of nonfederal sources including individuals, businesses, and state and local governments. Federal funds help licensees leverage funds from nonfederal sources. Thirty of 54 licensees GAO interviewed said that cuts in federal funding could lead to a reduction in staff, local programming, or services. In general, smaller licensees receive a higher percent of revenue from federal sources and 11 said that cuts in federal support might force the station to shut down.15% of annual revenue from federal sources = 85% not from federal sources. So yeah, member donations did help build out digital. I also find fault with your claim that less than 20% of income comes from members. See http://www.azpbs.org/sbp/funding.html, which indicates that 64% of the funding for PBS member station KAET comes from local support. All kinds of nonprofit organizations have advertisements from supporters in their materials, and "beg for money". Fliers and bulletins at various churches often have ads for businesses that give money to the church, humane societies often partner with local pet stores in exchange for promotion, and hundreds of youth sports organization are sponsored by local businesses. I fail to see why you attack PBS for it.