i was also trying last night with no luck to get cbc. I have the hr20 from directv. I have channel 20.1 and 5.1 from a zip code in washington dc. I got a new db8 antenna yesterday and put it on the roof in my rotor. There has been no difference in anything compared to cm4221. I still get the big 3 at 100% as well as pbs and wb. I get wnlo andwutv at 85%. I was unable to get anything from rochester, erie pa, or canada. I think i am going to have to give up on cbc

I'm in NT and the first two stations are watchable not the last 3 however- I thought I would have a shot at suntv from hamilton -no go on that either. No sign of CTS on 35 here either- bruce did you hear whether they are testing full time or not?

I have always thought I was in just a 'fair' reception area. Not good, not the worse, but now I'm wondering. Can't believe you guys can't get some of these that are well up north of me. :confused:

As far as ch. 35, after looking at the programming, I won't loose any sleep over not receiving it;
http://www.ctstv.com/index.asp

Indiana627; You have a PM.

For anyone that watches WPXJ analog ch. 51 (Batavia):

There is a issue/problem regarding channel 53 out of Totonto. Either the station or the FCC has suggested/requested that WPXJ use channel 23 instead of channel 53 to protect CITY TV.It's in the hands of the FCC.Was the response from the station when I called them this morning.
Not good news if 23 doesn't do dark, digital or analog. Too many on Gilligans Island as it is. :(

They also transfered control from Paxson Management, Los Angeles to CIG Media, Chicago at the end of last year;
http://www.stationindex.com/tv/callsign/WPXJ

As far as ch. 35, after looking at the programming, I won't loose any sleep over not receiving it;
http://www.ctstv.com/index.asp



Facts of Life nightly!

I doubt I'll have any luck receiving this OTA... is it on TWC?

I check for 7.3 tonight. What is on it?

I believe it's local high school and college sports.

I doubt I'll have any luck receiving this OTA... is it on TWC?Correct and no.

ch 7.3 is a channel called wsma or something like that. It is dedicated to olymic games and games of that nature.

my cbc dream is a offical bust. I put up my new 70mile rated db8 over 30 feet in the air with a rotor. I borrowed a ota hd reciever that actually scans. After moving the antenna and scanning countless times over the last 24 hrs i can not get any canadian stations except analog ch 11. There was no difference in signal strength on buffalo locals between the db8 and the cm4221. Well at least i tried.

Move to Niagara county- it comes in here! Just wish I could also get CTV!

Move to Niagara county- it comes in here! Just wish I could also get CTV!

So you could say - there's less snow in Niagara County.

WKBW having trouble tonight with HD. It's been SD all night and early during Ugly Betty they would lose picture & sound and simply show a strange still shot of a dirt bike with the phrase "Black No-Logo". That ran, uninterrupted, for the entire first five minutes of the 8 o'clock hour. Nice.

No kidding, WKBW weird sh#t tonight?

Nice to have satellite for backup.

CATV companies have to continue analog channels for another three (give or take) years starting on the OTA cut off date.

It is my understanding that cable operators only have to carry local channels on an analog basis until 2012. So TWC could, if they choose, make analog broadcasting like digital broadcasting is today. That is, they now carry the local channels on clear QAM, but all other HD broadcasts require a cable box.

I have called TWC and asked about their plans, but the CSRs really have no idea. My guess is that TWC itself does not know. On the one hand, they could continue to offer basic and standard cable as they do today - all analog on channels 1-99 - and have essentially all tvs able to receive these stations without a cable box.

Another choice would be to only make the local stations available on analog, and make the networks currently broadcast on 1-99 (analog) available on clear QAM channels (digital). New TVs would be able to receive a number of stations without a cable box, but old tvs would need a box.

A third option would be to only have the local stations available without a cable box. My guess is that there would be a lot of TVs that would require new cable boxes if this were the case - especially for second and third sets in the house.

I would think that leaving analog available as it is today might be a selling point for cable - you don't need a box at every TV. On the other hand, revenues go up if there are more box rentals.

I am curious to see what will happen, but only time will tell.

Turning off analog 1-99 would mean a LOT (and by that I mean a LOT) more cable boxes would have to be distributed. Anyone without a TV without a digital tuner would need a digital cable box. That would piss off a lot of customers and cost TW a ton.

It ain't gonna happen soon. By 2012? Probably. Before 2009? I highly doubt it.

For anyone hell bent on receiving ctv/cbc hd(along with TSN & Rogers sportsnet HD),there is another option. Starchoice/Bell Expressvu dishes work in the US. It's just a matter of purchasing/activating the equipment which can be tricky but not impossible. I've seen it done and I like what I saw. Although you really have to want it considering it won't be free but more affordable than one might think. After all OTA antenna equipment can be pricey too (and alot more aggravating when you don't get the result you want). I gave up on Canadian digitals OTA along time ago...

Last night I tuned in CBC 5-1 and it was crystal clear. I live a couple streets due south of the Airport. I installed a Phillips mant-940 early summer for Hockey playoffs. Worked great during good weather but always had issues with WKBW. Monday night right before the big wind storm I moved the unit to the top of my roof, now every channel comes in with signals strengths low 70's or better. The wind i believe prevented me from locking in CBC at that time. Now that the storm subsided CBC shows up and I'm delighted. I've got a question though. the Phillips unit I got at walmart comes with an in-line amp that runs 18 db. I would like to replace it with a DB2, db4 or db8 any non-directional antenna. I don't want to deal with rotators aiming and re-aiming the antenna to get different channels. Do you think a bowtie type antenna will work better than what I've got? Thank you in advance for any feedback.

I have a DB8 and it works well. I do have a rotator but seldom have to change its direction. I am in OP and keep my antenna @ 290 degrees and receive all local stations plus CBC 20-1. Also at times I get CFTO 40-1, CBLT french 25-1 and as of now I get 36-1 CTS in Hamilton(sporadic).

When testing I have gotten Omni 44-1(Toronto) and only once 15-1 Sun TV in Hamilton.

I would still go with a rotator, but like I said I don't need to change it very often

I have a DB8 and it works well. I do have a rotator but seldom have to change its direction. I am in OP and keep my antenna @ 290 degrees and receive all local stations plus CBC 20-1. Also at times I get CFTO 40-1, CBLT french 25-1 and as of now I get 36-1 CTS in Hamilton(sporadic).

When testing I have gotten Omni 44-1(Toronto) and only once 15-1 Sun TV in Hamilton.

I would still go with a rotator, but like I said I don't need to change it very often

You get all this in OP all this time!! I'm well north of you in NT and with a CM4228 on my roof w/ a rotor - I only get CBC. What height do you have the antenna at? I only get ctv and cblft when certain conditions are present - good dx days.

It is my understanding that cable operators only have to carry local channels on an analog basis until 2012.Are you sure about that??I gave up on Canadian digitals OTA along time ago...Where are you?

jimdoo; Once you get past S. Chwg, Lancaster etc., elevation increases and those people have a better shot at Toronto even though they are further away. The problem now becomes the 'three' in the Boston Hills as I have the problem with the 'seven' on GI.

Ok, I'll fix that my next house will be on top of a mountain
Would 10k feet or so do? :D

No, it would probably block Toronto from where I am...............

Thanks for the input gentlemen. I just wish I could see more Antenna's in my neighborhood then at least I could compare reception stregths. Just a little side note. I spoke to a dealer down in Lancaster who was trying to sell me a $379 set-up. The Blow hard said anybody using an omni-directional antenna was wasting their time. For that money I could buy bell-expressvu hd, directv-hd or time warner. But I guess he dosen't get that we're trying to SAVE money. Since the channels are FREE!

The Blow hard said anybody using an omni-directional antenna was wasting their time.He wasn't a "Blow hard" for making that comment!!

$380 isn't that out of the norm for at least $150 worth of equipment (his cost) and all the labor involved.
As far as satellite, maybe the install is free (or close to it), but you will be paying for it down the road. $75 to $100 a month plus. It adds up quick.

"Quote:
It is my understanding that cable operators only have to carry local channels on an analog basis until 2012.

Are you sure about that??"

Here is what the FCC has to say about that:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-276576A1.pdf

I can see where that was misunderstood to include all existing analog channels.

There is no reason to provide 4, 5 or 6 analog locals if all the others are switched over to digital. Those 70 channels x3 adds another 140 channels of HD with no additional bandwidth. Multiply that times 8, 10, 12 or more for just SD and that Cable Operator has all the room he needs for years.

Supply their STBs' (which is what they want in the first place) to everyone that doesn't have one. Done.

"Quote:
It is my understanding that cable operators only have to carry local channels on an analog basis until 2012.

Are you sure about that??"

Here is what the FCC has to say about that:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-276576A1.pdf


The point I was trying to make with my post was that cable operaters do not have to carry all of the stations that they currently carry analog until 2012. Further, as is outlined in the link, they do not even have to carry the local channels analog if they make the digital signals available to all subscribers.

So in addition to the three choices I outlined in my previous post, a fourth choice would be all digital, with TWC providing STBs to meet the requirements of the reg.

I would guess they would leave 6 or so channels available on analog before they would pay for truckloads of cable boxes, but who knows. Videobruce, I'm afraid I don't fully understand the math in your last post.

I continue to hope that they make the stations carried on an analog basis today available on clear QAM channels in the future - that would be as close to what is offered today as they could get with regard to the need for a box (assuming you have a QAM tuner in your TV, which I know would not be the case today but would move in that direction over time).

The other thing I would probably be OK with would be a viable "cable card" technology. My understanding is that current cable cards are not reliable. Further, its hard to find a smaller set with a cable card slot. I just don't think that a set you can hang on the wall should have to have a box to receive other than local channels . . .

For the past 2-3 weeks (or maybe slightly longer), I've been getting glitches on WKBW-HD (I get it through Rogers Cable in Canada). The picture will freeze for about 2 seconds and the audio will completely cut out. Then the picture recovers and the audio comes back in about 1-2 seconds after the picture recovers.

I'm wondering if anyone who gets this OTA has noticed the same issue, or if I should hound my cable company about. I know WKBW-HD has had lots of problems the past 4 months, so I suspect it's them, but haven't seen anyone post here about this specific issue.

If you watch the 11:00 news, it seems to happen a LOT. At least once every couple minutes and often more.

I'm afraid I don't fully understand the math in your last post.From what I have seen locally, a cable operator can put up to 3 HD services on each RF channel. More than that it will start to show (degrade because of compression).
OTA seems to be for one HD and one SD, cable seems to be good for 3 HD. SD, I don't know, biut probably less than 6. I used the numbers "8, 10, 12 or more" as a guess as what they are running.
Take those orginal 70 'basic analog', not 99, since 95-99 are actually below cable channel 14, and multiply by how many SD services they want to 'cram' into each RF slot. That would be their new total and all without any more bandwidth.

I'm hoping that those will be eventually 'in the clear' so anyone with a 'Cable ready' set will receive them at the new basic digital tier. Just as the 'Cable ready' analog tuners of the late 70s' or early 80s' were (not sure of date).

My understanding is that current cable cards are not reliable. Further, its hard to find a smaller set with a cable card slot.They are "reliable" when you find one that works with the set and the system it is on. I don't know of any small set that ever had one (smaller than 26"). Actually, I don't know of any current set (any size) that has one.

For the past 2-3 weeks (or maybe slightly longer), I've been getting glitches on WKBW-HD (I get it through Rogers Cable in Canada). The picture will freeze for about 2 seconds and the audio will completely cut out. Then the picture recovers and the audio comes back in about 1-2 seconds after the picture recovers.

I'm wondering if anyone who gets this OTA has noticed the same issue, or if I should hound my cable company about. I know WKBW-HD has had lots of problems the past 4 months, so I suspect it's them, but haven't seen anyone post here about this specific issue.

If you watch the 11:00 news, it seems to happen a LOT. At least once every couple minutes and often more.

Other than this past Thursday (posted about on this board), no problems with WKBW OTA here.

I hope they got their HD fixed for tonight... GMA on Friday was in SD.


As for CableCARDs... they work just fine with the thousands of TiVo Series3 and HD models out there. Once they're installed properly.

I don't "trust" "in the clear" digital cable channels... won't the subscriber still require a STB or a CableCARD to decode the channel numbers?

I understand the advantages of digital vs. analog cable but I don't want digital if it means that every set *requires* a card or a STB... even if they're free. Especially if it means the giant, bulky POS boxes that TWC currently uses in this market. Frankly, they're pieces of crap that I don't want in my setup at all.

I don't "trust" "in the clear" digital cable channels... won't the subscriber still require a STB or a CableCARD to decode the channel numbers?They don't now, do they?? but I don't want digital if it means that every set *requires* a card or a STB... even if they're free. Especially if it means the giant, bulky POS boxes that TWC currently uses in this market.Couldn't agree with you more, but that isn't the way the MSOs' feel.

They can't collect $$ from PPV & VOD w/o the box and that is their 'cash cow'.

I don't necessarily mind a box and don't mind them wanting to make money from PPV... and I think VOD is cool (I've been watching The Wire a day early on Saturday night vs. Sunday night).

But TWC's current hardware and software in this market SUCKS. I've seen VOD menus on other TWC systems in other markets and they're VERY usable and pleasant to look at. WNY's got to have the ugliest interface (channel guide is yellow and purple for God's sake!) I've ever seen... and it hasn't been updated in years! The POV menu doesn't even have a TW logo! They just stripped the Adelphia one and left it blank.

And the boxes are gigantic!

I did, however, see a friend's new setup in Buffalo recently and I swear it was this box or something similar in size which I was happy to see and is a step towards a box I would accept in, say, a bedroom.

http://developer.motorola.com/products/settops/dct700/images/large/

However, he had it connected to a beautiful new HDTV so I certainly hope that wasn't the box since it has no HD outputs. But I don't know him well enough to start to rip apart (literally and figuratively) his home theater setup ;)

wow OTA over in Willamsville is very very nice. i'd say it compares to digital cable back home.

my question, however, is why Fox looks so bad. it broadcasts in 720p and seems like its just upscaled. NBC, ABC, PBS look great yet this does not compare to any of those.

I had the pregame on a little and it looked just as good as normal, which is comparable with all the other networks. Perhaps you're looking at analog 29 instead of digital 29.1?

Yea, Fox OTA looks fine here. Looking forward to Terminator tonight and Prison Break return tomorrow.

yes i'm viewing 29-1 and it just dont compare. oh well...

i'm glad i discovered OTA though, didnt want to pay an additional 10 bucks a month for another HD box for this room.

I would love it if in the future, OK far future, the Sabres would contract with a local network and have games placed on a subchannel so network programming could be maintained.

If it wasn't for MSG and the Sabres, I would dump pay TV.

WNED HD is absolutely awesome BTW

MaXPL - are you moving to Buffalo I assume?

no i go to school here in Buffalo. why do you ask?

probably because if your location "poughkeepsie"

why Fox looks so bad. it broadcasts in 720p and seems like its just upscaled. NBC, ABC, PBS look great yet this does not compare to any of those.Apparently, you haven't watched much of PBS or, NBC for that matter. :rolleyes:
Though I don't watch any of Fox. (sorry Don. ;)) WNED HD is absolutely awesome BTWYou MUST be kidding?
It's a long standing 'issue' here, the quality, or lack of quality of PBS. This issue isn't just confined to here since from what I was told PBS affiliates HAVE to carry all three sub channels (per Washington DC) and 8VSB (ATSC) doesn't have the ability to do so without a huge loss in PQ. Unlike QAM, that doesn't have the additional error correction.

Actually I feel it's more that just that. Three or so years ago, PBS looked far better than it does now. My hunch is their transmission from Washington to their affiliates has restricted bandwidth causing the overly compressed, very rolled off video. Take another look at CBS & ABC (in spite of WKBWs' reported issues) and then look at PBS.
Actually if you can get CBC (CBLT 20.1), use that as reference since they are, by far, the best that I have seen locally.
Of course one major factor; they have NO sub channels. ;)

no i go to school here in Buffalo. why do you ask?

probably because if your location "poughkeepsie"
Exactly why I asked.

And the Fox network always broadcasts in 720p - that's not just a Buffalo affiliate choice.

Apparently, you haven't watched much of PBS or, NBC for that matter. :rolleyes:
Though I don't watch any of Fox. (sorry Don. ;)) You MUST be kidding?
It's a long standing 'issue' here, the quality, or lack of quality of PBS. This issue isn't just confined to here since from what I was told PBS affiliates HAVE to carry all three sub channels (per Washington DC) and 8VSB (ATSC) doesn't have the ability to do so without a huge loss in PQ. Unlike QAM, that doesn't have the additional error correction.

Actually I feel it's more that just that. Three or so years ago, PBS looked far better than it does now. My hunch is their transmission from Washington to their affiliates has restricted bandwidth causing the overly compressed, very rolled off video. Take another look at CBS & ABC (in spite of WKBWs' reported issues) and then look at PBS.
Actually if you can get CBC (CBLT 20.1), use that as reference since they are, by far, the best that I have seen locally.
Of course one major factor; they have NO sub channels. ;)

I'm talking about the programing, you know the actual reason most people watch tv

But, if the "programming" looks lilke schit, it takes away from the enjoyment (the reason most everyone is here).
HD Lite doesn't make it (or shouldn't be) with OTA. ;)


Update of WPXJ (digital) issue.

Apparently it's CITY TV & the CRTC are whining about the future allocation of ch. 53. This is forceing the FCC to change their allocation of 53 to ch 23 Pavilion (actual xmitter location 10 miles SE of Batavia). 23 on GI would go dark, so that stays out of the equation. :o

whatever

Maybe it's the size of my set (only 26") or my eyes (but I'm not even in my mid-30's yet!) but I don't see any noticeable difference between any of the local stations' HD OTA broadcasts.

Last night I watched HD on FOX and then ABC... both looked the same in quality to me.

More god-awful giant and ugly-as-hell STBs coming at us from Scientific Atlanta's new owner, Cisco (who knows nothing about designing products for the end consumer).

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/14/cisco-reveals-8500hdc-dvr-set-top-box-series/

blech!

Maybe it's the size of my set (only 26") or my eyes (but I'm not even in my mid-30's yet!) but I don't see any noticeable difference between any of the local stations' HD OTA broadcasts.

Last night I watched HD on FOX and then ABC... both looked the same in quality to me.

well perhaps it was just that broadcast of the giants game yesterday and the channels do actually look the same.

They are "reliable" when you find one that works with the set and the system it is on. I don't know of any small set that ever had one (smaller than 26"). Actually, I don't know of any current set (any size) that has one.


Sharp used to make a 26 inch set with cablecard - Aquos LC26D6 - but I am not aware of any 26 inch set in current production that has cablecard. Some bigger sets do have it.

From what I have seen locally, a cable operator can put up to 3 HD services on each RF channel. More than that it will start to show (degrade because of compression).
OTA seems to be for one HD and one SD, cable seems to be good for 3 HD. SD, I don't know, biut probably less than 6. I used the numbers "8, 10, 12 or more" as a guess as what they are running.
Take those orginal 70 'basic analog', not 99, since 95-99 are actually below cable channel 14, and multiply by how many SD services they want to 'cram' into each RF slot. That would be their new total and all without any more bandwidth.

I'm hoping that those will be eventually 'in the clear' so anyone with a 'Cable ready' set will receive them at the new basic digital tier. Just as the 'Cable ready' analog tuners of the late 70s' or early 80s' were (not sure of date).

Thanks for the explanation. I am hoping right along with you . . .

Some bigger sets do have it.Ok, please list the current models. While you are at it, list the current models that have 2 RF inputs (other than Samsung)

Ok, please list the current models. While you are at it, list the current models that have 2 RF inputs (other than Samsung)

Does the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5080 HD count - it has cable card and is available at Best Buy.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/pioneer-kuro-pdp-5080/4505-6482_7-32476901.html?tag=pdtl-list

I'll have to get back to you on the dual RF inputs. I actually do have a Dell plasma TV with two RF inputs, but it is long out of production (and not that great a set anyway). :)

No. It's a Plasma and only a 720p at that. :D
(Yes, you can see a difference betweeh a 720 & a 1080 on a 50")

Ok, there is one model. How about LCD & Microdisplays?

does the analog channels seem to broadcast farther out. In my cbc quest i attached a signal booster and can now pick up analog ch 5 and 9 which is cbc and ctv. Still no digital HD cbc or ctv though.

No. It's a Plasma and only a 720p at that. :D
(Yes, you can see a difference betweeh a 720 & a 1080 on a 50")

Ok, there is one model. How about LCD & Microdisplays?

OK - I should have negotiated my finder's fee first, But here is a 52 inch 120Hz LCD, cable card compatible, WITH 2 RF INPUTS!!!!!

Mitsubishi LT-52244

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=cable+card&i=690LT52244

In stock at Crutchfield.

That's it - my sales career is over! :)

I hate those substations too. Most hated one: 2.2. The other 1080i channels (CBS, CW) broadcast without substation and they are noticeably better (to me). I don't think the 720p channels are as bogged down with one substation but 1080i struggles to hold its own without huge macroblocks.

Yeah, with WKBW now at 2 subchannels, I still haven't seen any noticeable PQ degradation on 7.1.

J in OP; Ok, we are up to two. Though that is a far better choice than the first. It's too bad they dropped the 1394 ports. It would of been perfect for a AVHDD. (They also have a 46" version.)

Very strange they kepted CC & TVGOS! :eek:

Tonight's Sabres game is against the Rangers. There is no doubt in my mind that NYC-MSG will broadcast the game for the NYC audience in HD, but for some reason the Buffalo market will not get it in HD. This is in spite of the fact that the game will also be broadcast on MSG in Buffalo!

This has been discussed here ad nauseum. Plus, TWC doesn't even carry MSG-HD so they couldn't show it even if they wanted.

I'm just glad they still have Versus HD as "in the clear" QAM for home games.

Tonight's Sabres game is against the Rangers. There is no doubt in my mind that NYC-MSG will broadcast the game for the NYC audience in HD, but for some reason the Buffalo market will not get it in HD. This is in spite of the fact that the game will also be broadcast on MSG in Buffalo!
It's because we'll get the Buffalo feed so we get the Buffalo commercials. I have MSG HD on D* but all the Rangers/Devils/Islanders games are always blacked out here since we are Sabres territory. If I bought Center Ice from D*, then I think I could watch the Rangers HD feed.

i have center ice. Directv/msg ch 621 is knicks at nets. the center ice channels 772 has the sabres feed and 773 is blacked out. There is no hd feed even listed

Not sure if I'm in the right location, if I am sorry. I would like to know if DirecTV will ever get the CBS channel, I think it's WIVB, in HD they have all the other networks in HD except CBS.

Whitl; A outdoor antenna works wonders. ;)
(and there is no monthly fee)

Not sure if I'm in the right location, if I am sorry. I would like to know if DirecTV will ever get the CBS channel, I think it's WIVB, in HD they have all the other networks in HD except CBS.

DirecTV doesn't have any of the local HD stations across the country owned by LIN TV (owners of WIVB). They've been in dispute for a few years. It's the same argument that TWC had with WUTV (Fox) back last year. The local station wants to be paid, DTV doesn't want to pay.

You're not going to get WIVB until those two corporations come to some agreement. Could be tomorrow, could be in a few months, could be never.

i have center ice. Directv/msg ch 621 is knicks at nets. the center ice channels 772 has the sabres feed and 773 is blacked out. There is no hd feed even listed
Did you get the game on 627? All I had was a black screen, no searching for signal, no "this game is blacked out in your area," no call customer service. At least up until 8 cause then I was recording on both tuners and couldn't check anymore. The game was in my guide. All other channels came in fine.

Tonight's Sabres game is against the Rangers. There is no doubt in my mind that NYC-MSG will broadcast the game for the NYC audience in HD, but for some reason the Buffalo market will not get it in HD. This is in spite of the fact that the game will also be broadcast on MSG in Buffalo!

the nyc msg and the buffalo msg are two separate and distinct services.
the buffalo msg doesn't have the budget to do away hd. remember the sabres team was thisclose to bankruptcy a couple years ago, and its owners were hauled off to prison. buffalo ad revenues will not support away hd for some time. transmission costs are close to triple that in sd.

in the nyc area for this particular game the rangers were in sd on the msg-2 alternate channel. grownup hd msg was with knicks/nets. the knicks are the bigger draw, no matter what their record.

yeah i got the entire game on ch 627

I just thought I would put this one out there. I watched the Toronto Buffalo hockey game Saturday night on channel 5-1 out of Toronto with my outdoor antenna. I have to tell you that watching hockey on channel 5-1 in HD was simply stunning. I watch Time Warner cable in HD all the time. Watching a Buffalo home game on MSG HD channel 700 is quite substandard compared to what I saw Saturday on channel 5. The pictures on CBC channel 5-1 were so crisp and clean it was amazing. Watching MSG HD on Friday night game does not come close. The picture is fairly dull and soft comparing the 2. Obviously way better than channel 28. Some people will take issue with that, but since I have access to both cable and OTA, I can see the difference. I guess if you never saw an OTA HD picture, you would not know the difference. Just an observation.
Bernie

I just thought I would put this one out there. I watched the Toronto Buffalo hockey game Saturday night on channel 5-1 out of Toronto with my outdoor antenna. I have to tell you that watching hockey on channel 5-1 in HD was simply stunning. I watch Time Warner cable in HD all the time. Watching a Buffalo home game on MSG HD channel 700 is quite substandard compared to what I saw Saturday on channel 5. The pictures on CBC channel 5-1 were so crisp and clean it was amazing. Watching MSG HD on Friday night game does not come close. The picture is fairly dull and soft comparing the 2. Obviously way better than channel 28. Some people will take issue with that, but since I have access to both cable and OTA, I can see the difference. I guess if you never saw an OTA HD picture, you would not know the difference. Just an observation.
Bernie

Yeah - I'd say you're 100% dead on here- I'm in the same boat and I agree!
If it weren't for the additional variety of stations on TW- I would be happy with OTA alone- and best of all minus the cost of equipment and installation- all programming is FREE! You can't beat it- if you ask me!!

Hi everyone! I'm new to the HDTV scene and was hoping you could offer some advice on antenna selection.

After purchasing a Terk TV5 and having mediocre results (constant dropouts), I've been doing quite a bit of research. I have narrowed it down to the channel master 4220 and the 4221. Off hand it seems like a no brainer to go with the 4221 for the added gain, but I if I went that big, I probably wouldn't mount it outside. I would likely mount it in my 3rd story attic. If I were to go with the 4220, I would consider mounting it on the eve of my garage, which is roughly 10' off the ground.

I guess the question is, how do these antennas compare in these mounting scenarios? One is higher, but has to go through the attic. The other is lower, but is mounted outside. I look forward to seeing your comments Thanks.

Doug

BTW - Because I'm new to this site, it wouldn't allow me to post the link to 2150.com, but I live in Lancaster, 14086.

Anyone else having trouble with WKBW-HD (7/1) today? I'm getting 75% signal (that's normal for me) but no picture or sound at all.

I'm also getting 0% signal on WNYO-HD (49.1) which isn't a big deal (I rarely watch that station) but it's weird. Usually that's a strong station for me.

I don't think the two problems are related, though.

Watching a Buffalo home game on MSG HD channel 700 is quite substandard compared to what I saw Saturday on channel 5.Have you compared watching the feed without their STB?? ;)
I have to disagree with you.

The feed TWC gets (reported as via fiber) locally beats any OTA broadcast I have ever seen. It is very apparent while looking at the closeups of the players. Their faces are 'soft' and 'rolled off'. It's very apparent to me. Wide shots look very good. Medium shots look good. It's the ECU (extream closeup) that fails. The TWC feed is superior to CBC. (Did I actually say a CATV feed is better than OTA??? :eek:)
Mind you, I'm just talking about these 'local' hockey games. NOT any other HD cable feed except HDNet & HDNet Movies that I don't get anymore :mad: (assuming things haven't changed for the worse in the past 2 or 3 years).

Next time do two things; compare the up close shots, especially looking at their skin, beard etc. Also get rid of their STB and comapre a direct feed into your sets tuner (assumong it has a QAM tuner). The feed is 'in the clear'.

It never fails to amaze me just how many that pay for CC STB's never used their internal tuner. :rolleyes: :confused:

heerdtd; Welcome to the forums. Lancaster is pretty spread out. Which part? You should be a prime candidate for an antenna.

To answer your questions;
1. Outdoors is almost always better,
2. Higher is usually better,
3. Larger is always better (of the same type antenna),
4. A shorter downlead is always better.
5. That 4220 is overpriced and a waste of time. It's way too small. It's not worth the trouble unless you don't care about receiving Canada. :confused:
The 4221 is ok, but for a little more, go with the 4228.

There is no such thing as to large of an antenna (as long as it is mounted properly). ;)

Chris; in the Canadian forum, others reported one of those 'odd' channels being down. I forgot which one it was.

Separate subject. This might be of interest regarding QAM tunres;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=977187

Have you compared watching the feed without their STB?? ;)
I have to disagree with you.

The feed TWC gets (reported as via fiber) locally beats any OTA broadcast I have ever seen. It is very apparent while looking at the closeups of the players. Their faces are 'soft' and 'rolled off'. It's very apparent to me. Wide shots look very good. Medium shots look good. It's the ECU (extream closeup) that fails. The TWC feed is superior to CBC. (Did I actually say a CATV feed is better than OTA??? :eek:)
Mind you, I'm just talking about these 'local' hockey games. NOT any other HD cable feed except HDNet & HDNet Movies that I don't get anymore :mad: (assuming things haven't changed for the worse in the past 2 or 3 years).

Next time do two things; compare the up close shots, especially looking at their skin, beard etc. Also get rid of their STB and comapre a direct feed into your sets tuner (assumong it has a QAM tuner). The feed is 'in the clear'.

It never fails to amaze me just how many that pay for CC STB's never used their internal tuner. :rolleyes: :confused:

That is a good question in regards to using the onboard tuner. I actually have 2 lcds which have internal Qam tuners, which have no STB connected to them. I am using the internal tuners on those sets connected to cable and OTA antenna. I usually don't watch the games on these sets because they are 37 inch. The main tv is a perfectly calibrated 65 inch HD 1080i projection tv connected to a SA8300HD and also connected to an LG LST-4200A stb tuner for OTA. That tv is what I generally watch the games on. Next time I have a chance I will look at the lcds through my antenna and through Qam cable feed.
The only issue I have with your statement is even though the TWC feed is fiber, by the time it is amplified, distributed and such, you would have to believe there is some loss of quality especially when cable has bandwidth issues. I am no tv engineer, just using some logic here. But as I said, next time I have the chance, I will have a look.
Bernie

Videobruce,

Thanks for your response, I appreciate the help. I live near Ransom and Westwood, Lattitude: 42.910398, Longitude: -78.593007, Magnetic Declination: -10.83.

I've read a lot of great things about the 4228, but I was concerned that it might be too direcitonal. Also, I don't know if I can fit it through the access door to my attic. Do you know if it can be disassembled into smaller pieces?

I would love to be able to pull in stations from Canada, but I didn't know how possible it would be. Again, I thank you for all the help.

Doug

by the time it is amplified, distributed and such, you would have to believe there is some loss of quality especially when cable has bandwidth issues.If it was analog all of the above would apply. Digital, on the other hand isn't affected (for the most part) by the distrubution plant. Only in the orginal production & encoding and any compression in the Head End.

berniez; Regarding making a judgement with a smaller 37" LCD, you can't. since you have nothing to compare it with. You stated there is no STB with those sets, correct? You can't compare it with a 65" RPTV even if it was in the same room. Doesn't your RPTV have a QAM tuner??
If not, you would have to move the STB to one of those smaller sets. but I was concerned that it might be too direcitonal.It's rarely a problem with an antenna that is too directional. It's not. That antenna can't easily be dissassembled. There are others of a similar design that can. You being way out in East Lancaster, it's wide open there and with all those new houses and their fairly flat roofs a roof install is a piece of cake.
AFAIC, it's really a waste to put an antenna in the attic. You are the third member here that has an aversion to roofs. :confused:

AFAIC, it's really a waste to put an antenna in the attic. You are the third member here that has an aversion to roofs. :confused:
Hey, I resemble that remark!

I see I'm going to have to erect three antennas this spring. :D
(But, I don't want to piss Rich off ;) )

It's really not that hard. Again, the worst part is that eight foot ground rod. Both obtaining one and driving it in. That is if you want to do it right. Two four footers might pass though, but I never did it that way. The only other PITA is obtaining 10' masts. They aren't cheap (because of shipping). You could use stacked five footers. I take a 10', cut it to one 7' and use the 3' section above the rotor.
Don't use a three foot tripod. Only use a five footer.
Lastly, don't use the coax for grounding with those clips/clamps that bite into the outer insulation. All that does is allows mosture in and it's a lousy ground (if any at all) to boot. Besides, I don't think it is to code anyway.

With the talk lately about OTA vs cable HD I did a little experiment last night. I recorded WKBW-HD via OTA (it did come back on sometime yesterday) and via unencrypted QAM on TWC. Both recorded to my TiVo Series3 and both extracted as raw MPEGs to my Mac and played back in the same program.

I realize this isn't a great experiment since it's just a screenshot of the content being played on my 20" iMac screen and it also doesn't have TW's HD STB in the mix which would probably result in worse quality.

But, for the sake of this experiment, I can't see much difference. Maybe if my TV was bigger.

Maybe I'll try it with some sports this weekend. Anyway, thought I'd share the attachments in case anyone's interested.

Did anyone see the article in yesterday's paper about the 2009 DTV deadline? I loved the quote from Heather Sidorowicz, project manager for Southtowns Audio Visual, about needing a "high definition antenna." So is she clueless, or just trying to sell more antennas?

http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/257064.html

Did anyone see the article in yesterday's paper about the 2009 DTV deadline? I loved the quote from Heather Sidorowicz, project manager for Southtowns Audio Visual, about needing a "high definition antenna." So is she clueless, or just trying to sell more antennas?

http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/257064.html

What I saw said this:

According to Heather Sidorowicz, project manager for Southtowns Audio Visual, that converter box — combined with a high definition antenna — will give you the best possible television signal available in Buffalo.

“Both cable and satellite are compressing their signal,” she said. “For your local stations, a high-def antenna (as opposed to cable or dish) can actually give you the best high-definition signal you can receive.”

Not quite the same thing, is it? :)

Not quite the same thing, is it? :)
I'm not arguing that an antenna will give you a better picture than cable or satellite. What is funny is she claimed you need a HD antenna which simply isn't true. There is no such thing. I can't count the number of people on this and other other sites who are amazed that their 40 year old antenna will pick up HD signals with the proper TV. Hence my question: is she clueless, or just trying to sell more antennas?

It's an unfortunate phrasing in an article that's specifically supposed to help clear the air of confusion related to the digital conversion.

I emailed the author explaining about UHF and regular antennas being quite capable.

My friend in South Buffalo was amazed when what I told him to try worked... which was using some old rabbit ears he pulled out of the closet.

I'm not arguing that an antenna will give you a better picture than cable or satellite. What is funny is she claimed you need a HD antenna which simply isn't true. There is no such thing. I can't count the number of people on this and other other sites who are amazed that their 40 year old antenna will pick up HD signals with the proper TV. Hence my question: is she clueless, or just trying to sell more antennas?

I agree with you. If the News had a decent reporter, that would have been explained.

anyone know anything that will help pull in a signal. Still working on cbc hd ota signal with negative results. I added a motorola signal booster i had laying around which did improve the picture on the canadian analog channels 9 and 11. I only get cbc in with a snowy black picture on analog 5. I have a db8 up about 35 feet with no obstructions. I can even get analog ch 12 from erie pa but no cbc hd. I am out of ideas. Any suggestions? thanks guys

anyone know anything that will help pull in a signal. Still working on cbc hd ota signal with negative results. I added a motorola signal booster i had laying around which did improve the picture on the canadian analog channels 9 and 11. I only get cbc in with a snowy black picture on analog 5. I have a db8 up about 35 feet with no obstructions. I can even get analog ch 12 from erie pa but no cbc hd. I am out of ideas. Any suggestions? thanks guys
Ah, poor Sisyphus. :)

Keep up the good fight.

gives me something to do once in a while when i get bored. Only thing left i have not tried was a pre amp

I agree with you. If the News had a decent reporter, that would have been explained.

I hardly think letting a slightly incorrect description ("HD antenna" vs "UHF antenna") from a source can lead you calling the author not "decent".

Especially when 99% of the readership probably has absolutely no idea what UHF means.

The reporter is a business reporter not a communications / technology reporter.

Plus, in re-reading, the comment is in reference to getting an antenna vs. using satellite or cable. In that regard, and for the future, a "UHF antenna" really is the same as an "HD antenna" even if the marketing terminology is a bit off.

If that's the biggest "error" we can find with that article, there's not really much to complain about.

But I'm still glad I emailed the author (as anyone else is free to do... there's a link at the bottom of the article).

AFAIC, it's really a waste to put an antenna in the attic. You are the third member here that has an aversion to roofs. :confused:

Yeah, I'll be putting a new roof on this summer and don't want to do the work twice. I just figured I would mount it in the attic if others have had decent results.

I think Ill probably go for the 4228 and try it in my attic. If I get poor reception, then I'll wait until the roof is done to mount permanently. Thanks.

CBC is very directional for me. I sketched out the exact angle to aim with a streetmap and protractor, aimed, then scanned for the channel. If it was a couple degrees off, nothing.

And I agree - attic is less than ideal but you'd have to be crazy to climb on a roof today! AFAIK, electromagnetic waves can refract or reflect not so much from wood, but things like brick, metal (roofing nails) and glass (windows and fiberglass insulation). So salt your roof or wait...

Yeah, I'll be putting a new roof on this summer and don't want to do the work twice. I just figured I would mount it in the attic if others have had decent results.

I think Ill probably go for the 4228 and try it in my attic. If I get poor reception, then I'll wait until the roof is done to mount permanently. Thanks.


I'm almost afraid to admit this, but I have an omnidirectional antenna in my attic and it brings in all the locals.

I can also get the locals in my family room using a set top antenna, so I don't know if I am just located in a good spot. Orchard Park is not far from the Boston Hills antennas, so they are no surprise, but I also get PBS and FOX.

I know its sub optimal, but it works . . .

Just for another datapoint... I'm in downtown (near Elmwood, near Children's Hospital) and I get all the locals with a Silver Sensor placed on my fireplace mantle in my 2nd floor apartment. WIVB is my hardest and comes in only at about 65% but it's a solid picture. I can count on one hand the times I've lost a recording due to a dropped signal due to weather or other interference in 1.5 years.

Mine's sub-optimal too but it also works.


And I realize this is OT but since in the past I've complained about TW's horrible software that we're saddled with on their STB's in this market, HERE'S what GOOD STB software looks like...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/10/hands-on-with-the-latest-tv-guide-software-comcast-dvr/

I'm also getting 0% signal on WNYO-HD (49.1) which isn't a big deal (I rarely watch that station) but it's weird. Usually that's a strong station for me.


Anyone else or is it just me?

I checked 49.1 last night and got my normal signal of ~75%.

My 49-1 is back now. Must'a been a temp. thing.

Thanks for the added input guys. I'll post my results when it's fully installed.

I'm looking for recommendations on installers for an outdoor OTA HD Antenna in Elma NY. This will be used to augment a DiSH Satellite for local OTA HD channels.

Thanks,

BillMac

Look thru this forum for RW Antenna- Lockport, NY

Sorry for the OT question but can anyone tell me what TWC charges for CableCARDs here?

I don't think they offer M-Cards yet so this would be 2 S-Cards for a TiVoHD. If they charge anything BS thing like an "cable outlet" fee, let me know that too?

Lancaster is tough to try getting Canada . Especially since your thinking of mounting in the attic. You might as well forget about seeing Canada.

In regards to Bruce P------ ing me off . Im not Bruce.
My guess is alot of people on here have a problem with Heights. I can respect that I have a problem with airplanes!!! We all have our issues. Those of you not comfortable with doing roof mounts can call me Id be willing to help out in any way. We are licensed/insured and have 25 yrs experience.
A fall off your roof is not worth Better HDTV!!!!!

I'm looking for recommendations on installers for an outdoor OTA HD Antenna in Elma NY. This will be used to augment a DiSH Satellite for local OTA HD channels.

Thanks,

BillMac

Give me a call or an e-mail Glad to help out.
Rich
R.W. Antenna Service
716-434-9216:)

Lancaster is tough to try getting Canada . Especially since your thinking of mounting in the attic. You might as well forget about seeing Canada.

In regards to Bruce P------ ing me off . Im not Bruce.
My guess is alot of people on here have a problem with Heights. I can respect that I have a problem with airplanes!!! We all have our issues. Those of you not comfortable with doing roof mounts can call me Id be willing to help out in any way. We are licensed/insured and have 25 yrs experience.
A fall off your roof is not worth Better HDTV!!!!!

I am in OP and am definitely thinking about the roof mounted U16000 , I may switch from the DB8 in the spring. I would at some point want you to come out and check out my system and give me an opinion, I will certainly pay for a house call. Can you post a picture?

Rigth now, I have now problem with all the Bflo stations and CBC HD and occasionally get CTS 36-1, Omni 44.1 (when it was testing) 25-1 CBLTF and rarely CFTO 9-1.

11,36,41,55, 47 analog are all very watchable.

In regards to Bruce P------ ing me off . Im not Bruce.And the meaning of that is??

Has WKBW reduced there kW power level ?
I'm getting 70% signal strength , used to be 95% average.
Anyone else seeing this or is it a problem on my end ?

Thanks,
Murray

WKBW still coming in strong here at the usual 95%.

WKBW still coming in strong here at the usual 95%.

Not today- not here! Anyone getting WKBW right now?

I have no digital signal at all..I believe there signal is kaput.

No WKBW digital here. I am getting the analog on D*.

I still have no digital signal on WKBW, anyone have any info on this

It's back on for me.

The results are in.........I ended up purchasing the CM 4221 and mounted it in the attic. I have it facing Toronto, and right now I am pulling in all the local HD channels ranging from 85-100% signal strength. The back screen is still on the antenna as well - I've heard some people remove them to pull in stations from behind.

The only Canadian station I am getting is CBC. It's at about 60% signal strength and hasn't dropped out yet. If there was any station I wanted to get from Canada, this was it so I couldn't be happier. Thanks guys. I've included my 2150 below.

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=42%2E910398&longitude=%2D78%2E593007&magnetic_north=%2D10%2E83&range=100&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=True&show_low_power=True&action=Show+Stations

Amazing!
He finally updated the database (after 9 months). I'll have to thank him in a e-mail.

heerdtd; Are you out in Clarence??

heerdtd; Are you out in Clarence??

No, I'm in Lancaster.....Ransom & Westwood.

The results are in.........I ended up purchasing the CM 4221 and mounted it in the attic. I have it facing Toronto, and right now I am pulling in all the local HD channels ranging from 85-100% signal strength. The back screen is still on the antenna as well - I've heard some people remove them to pull in stations from behind.

The only Canadian station I am getting is CBC. It's at about 60% signal strength and hasn't dropped out yet. If there was any station I wanted to get from Canada, this was it so I couldn't be happier. Thanks guys. I've included my 2150 below.

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=42%2E910398&longitude=%2D78%2E593007&magnetic_north=%2D10%2E83&range=100&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=True&show_low_power=True&action=Show+Stations
amazing everyone can get cbc but my house. I think i am the erie county dead spot!

heerdtd; Sorry, I forgot. (It would help if your town was under your username.) You should be able to get 40.1 with a little 'tweaking' and/or help.
FUCCO; That puts you around 5-7 miles west of heerdtd??

Props to Towne Hyundai for their HD commercial during the super bowl last night. First local HD commercial I've seen. And props to WUTV for great PQ during the game. Now only if they could have changed the outcome. Two super bowls the Giants have stole now.

[QUOTE=videobruce;13023234]heerdtd; Sorry, I forgot. (It would help if your town was under your username.) You should be able to get 40.1 with a little 'tweaking' and/or help.QUOTE]

Thanks for the tip.......I added my location. Yeah, you know I pick up quite a few of the other Canadian stations in analog, but the only one in HD is CBC.

I couldn't be happier with the results, but do you think an amp would get me the other stations? I should have just listened and gotten the 4228 as you said. Oh well, I don't think I could have gotten it into my attic without damaging it.

heerdtd; Sorry, I forgot. (It would help if your town was under your username.) You should be able to get 40.1 with a little 'tweaking' and/or help.
FUCCO; That puts you around 5-7 miles west of heerdtd??

yet i cant get it. I now have a db8 antenna with rotot about 35 feet high on my house. There are no trees or obstructions around. I have also checked and added a motorola signal booster, a trans signal booster and a channel master preamp and can not get cbc hd. I have a old hughes directv hd receiver and when i scan or manually search for channel 5 or 20 i get nothing. I have also searched for ch 20-1 fox via my hr20 by using zip code 22203 (wash dc) and can not get it. My cable coax is good too. All my locals are 100 percent except cw which is 80. I give up, there is nothing i can even think to do anymore

yet i cant get it. I now have a db8 antenna with rotot about 35 feet high on my house. There are no trees or obstructions around. I have also checked and added a motorola signal booster, a trans signal booster and a channel master preamp and can not get cbc hd. I have a old hughes directv hd receiver and when i scan or manually search for channel 5 or 20 i get nothing. I have also searched for ch 20-1 fox via my hr20 by using zip code 22203 (wash dc) and can not get it. My cable coax is good too. All my locals are 100 percent except cw which is 80. I give up, there is nothing i can even think to do anymore

Have you tried another reciever/tuner

i just got the hr20 which only takes zip codes. I was told 22203 washington dc will give u the 20.1 and 5.1 for cbc hd. I also have the hughes directv reciever that scans. I cant pick it up with either one. I can get cbc analog ch 5 in. It comes in with color and sound just snowy. I can make out a pretty good picture though. Cbc hd is broadcasted on 20.1 correct?

No, I'm in Lancaster.....Ransom & Westwood.

I'm by Como Park near the Howitzers. What STB are you using? I've a ViP622; if the sensitivity is similar, I'll give the CM4221 a try as well.

I pick up quite a few of the other Canadian stations in analog, but the only one in HD is CBC.20.1 is the strongest. but do you think an amp would get me the other stations?You can try. Being indoors is you worst enemy. I don't think I could have gotten it into my attic without damaging it.That more expensive DB8 I beleive can be dissambled. You could also try a long Yagi (if it fits). added a motorola signal booster, a trans signal booster and a channel master preampI hope not all at once. :eek: I was told 22203 washington dc will give u the 20.1 and 5.1 for cbc hd.Why would a Wash.DC zip give a Toronto program schedule?? :confused:

the dc zip code will not give a toronto program schedule but i was told the 20.1 channel provided via the wash dc zip code will allow you to watch cbc hd. The guide data will still be incorrect. This is beacuse the hr20 will not scan for ota

I'm by Como Park near the Howitzers. What STB are you using? I've a ViP622; if the sensitivity is similar, I'll give the CM4221 a try as well.

I don't have an STB. I'm just using the tuner that came in my TV - LG 47LB5D. I hope this helps.

I don't have an STB. I'm just using the tuner that came in my TV - LG 47LB5D. I hope this helps.

It does. I need to get a better antenna anyway, the silver sensor is getting under my skin- too many wires in my living room- so I'll just put that on the 'things to try' list :)

Is the audio coming in fine on tonights (2/10) Sabres HD game on TWC?

Is the audio coming in fine on tonights (2/10) Sabres HD game on TWC?

Audio(video fine) is not working on Directv 627-1 HD after 1 period :mad:

Audio(video fine) is not working on Directv 627-1 HD after 1 period :mad:
That's exactly why asked if it was OK on TWC (sorry I should have explained better in my original post). I have D* too and was wondering if the audio issue was only with D*, or if it was an MSG problem.

Can any TWC customers let us know if you had audio problems on the HD feed of the Sabres 2/10 game?

I didn't watch the game on TV (I was there) but I re-watched a bit of the end (the injury) and audio was fine. I record it via unencrypted QAM on TWC.

audio still is not working on 627-1 on Direct TV For Sabres vs. Leafs

An MSG source tells me it is an internal problem at DirecTV.
They're getting audio, but they're not able to resend it on satellite.
--Later-- D* was able to fix it by mid-1st period.

Anyone else getting "pauses" where the picture freezes and the audio cuts out for a few second at a time intermittently on TWC HD channel 702? I DVR'd the late night shows (Leno and Conan) on the 14th and it was pretty bad at times. It happened in the morning on Feb 15th on the Today Show in the morning too. Just wondering if anyone else saw that. I have not checked last night's Leno and Conan show that I DVR'd, but I will later. remember it's TWC channel 702.

I was seeing that a bit on WGRZ via OTA. I thought it was due to my signal breaking but maybe there's a problem at the source?

Yeah maybe, I tried to switch over to my OTA source while watching the "pausing" during the Today Show a couple days ago, but I couldn't come to any conclusions.

The reason I ask here is because the girl, I mean, tech support person, said she wanted to schedule a service call. I don't want them coming in and taking my 8300 with my 660GB of HD movies stored on it so they can "rule out" the box. I know it isn't the box, it's TWC's problem, but the girl said she didn't have any other reports of the problem, or that they were all fixed now since that storm two weeks ago that knocked out channel 706 and 708 (I think those two, it might have been 706 and 707, I can't remember).

I dunno, I'll just wait a few days and call back if it keeps up. Maybe it is already fixed, I haven't watched those recorded shows yet. BTW, I have every single HD channel TWC offers, and none of them are doing it.

Thx for any feedback...

I went to the TWC "HDTV Seminar" at Stereo Advantage this afternoon - it was really something to see the SA staff and TWC staff try and explain 1080p vs. 1080i vs 720p to people who had bno idea what they were talking about . . .

I did learn that TWC is saying that if you have a cable pluged directly into your TV, nothing will change 2/17/09. You will receive all the stations you get now. This is the first I heard with certainty that basic and standard cable will continue on an analog basis after 2/17/09. There was no certainty as to how long it would remain that way, but they said that it was expected to stay that way until "2011 or 2012."

I also asked about TWC offering more HD channels in the clear for QAM tuners. The TWC rep said she really didn't know anything about that - disappointing.

At least we know all sets will not need a box by one year from now.

Also, I asked the SA sales rep about receiving HD channels withourt a box. He said that it was "really unreliable" and that stations just changed thier mapping all the time. You can tell that this is something that TWC is really trying to get right, can't you? :rolleyes:

My Sony Bravia gets the following HD stations in the clear:

WGRZ DT 1.1
WIVB DT 1.2
WKBW DT 1.3
WNED DT 89.1
WUTV DT 106.1
MYTV DT 106.2
Sabres 94.1

In addition, I get some digital stations that are not HD:

Family Land 76.16
Previews 83.13, 94.5, 103.36
ESPN U 86.7
TV Guide 108.3
Think Bright 108.11
plus music channels on 75, 78, and 89
Political/NASA 108.12
TBS 111.4


Not very user friendly . . .

It's not user friendly in most other markets too.

I think the QAM local channels have changed ONCE in the almost two years since I've been doing it. So "really unreliable" is a bit of a stretch.

More HD in the clear? Ain't gonna happen. Did anyone ask them about more HD period? Their offerings are horrible in this market! Every other market I look at has more channels than we do.

I was seeing that a bit on WGRZ via OTA. I thought it was due to my signal breaking but maybe there's a problem at the source?


The problem is at the source, it's not TWC. Same issues for me, OTA.

I did learn that TWC is saying that if you have a cable pluged directly into your TV, nothing will change 2/17/09. You will receive all the stations you get now. This is the first I heard with certainty that basic and standard cable will continue on an analog basis after 2/17/09. There was no certainty as to how long it would remain that way, but they said that it was expected to stay that way until "2011 or 2012."



They COULD switch to all digital and give every customer a digital cable box for free. That way "nothing would change" to the consumer.

I don't think that'll happen or want it to either but I'm just saying. I'm still not 100% confident our analog cable is safe.

it was really something to see the SA staff and TWC staff try and explain 1080p vs. 1080i vs 720p to people who had bno idea what they were talking about . . . Who didn't have any idea, the 'staff' or the customers?? ;) Not very user friendly . . . Not very customer friendly either. :( I'm still not 100% confident our analog cable is safe. I hope it isn't "safe". Analog cable is 2 or 3x noiser that before all these digital channels appeared. I use to get a 'ok' signal, now most analog channels are bordering on a snow storm and I know it isn't signal level or just bad fittings. Someone out in Lancaster that is closer to their head end that I am to mine reports most of his analog channels are much noiser that before.

It's the same noise I see with weak OTA channels from Toronto that are getting 'broadband noise' from the digital stations from G.I. There is no doubt in my mind the system is swamped with QAM that is killing analog.

I hope TW dumps analog altogether and just supplies boxes to the few that don't have new sets or don't rent their boxes. Freeing up 65+ analog channels would give them 3, 4 or many more times that capibility. That would be a huge plus for them WITHOUT using switched video that they are hell bent on going through with (and I guess already have).

Even people with new sets will need their cable boxes... assuming TW isn't going to send the < 99 channels unencrypted... or, even if they do, they'll send them like they send local HDs without proper channel mapping.

That's why I don't understand what the heck "digital cable ready TVs" are supposed to do since they still need a box.

I have a TiVo Series3 w/o CableCARDs so if they take away analog cable, my box is useless (it can't control an external STB).


Speaking of CableCARDs, my one friend today has her THIRD visit from TW to try to get her CableCARDs working properly in her new TiVoHD. She said the installers so far has been morons and did nothing but bad-mouth TiVo and CableCARDs in general.

Worse, they have no MCards in this area yet and they're charging her $8 for the first and $4 for the second every month!

Even people with new sets will need their cable boxes... assuming TW isn't going to send the < 99 channels unencrypted... or, even if they do, they'll send them like they send local HDs without proper channel mapping.

That's why I don't understand what the heck "digital cable ready TVs" are supposed to do since they still need a box.

I have a TiVo Series3 w/o CableCARDs so if they take away analog cable, my box is useless (it can't control an external STB).


Speaking of CableCARDs, my one friend today has her THIRD visit from TW to try to get her CableCARDs working properly in her new TiVoHD. She said the installers so far has been morons and did nothing but bad-mouth TiVo and CableCARDs in general.

Worse, they have no MCards in this area yet and they're charging her $8 for the first and $4 for the second every month!

I think an interesting question is how verizon will handle their signal. Verizon FIOS TV will be here at some point. Maybe with the Tivo Series 3 or TV with ATSC/QAM will be able to get all digital unencrypted signal mapped properly without a box.

They COULD switch to all digital and give every customer a digital cable box for free. That way "nothing would change" to the consumer.

I don't think that'll happen or want it to either but I'm just saying. I'm still not 100% confident our analog cable is safe.


Nothing is ever 100% where this is concerned!

The TWC rep was as clear as can be that "if you have a cable plugged directly into your TV now, nothing will change in February 2009." So it looks like TWC has taken the decision to continue analog transmission for at least a period of time.

Who didn't have any idea, the 'staff' or the customers?? ;)

LOL! I wish I would have thought of that!

I would be happy to see the demise of analog IF it meant an increase in clear HD channels. I'm afraid that what we would get is "digital" stations that are not HD, along the lines of the digital tier available with a set top box today. The PQ on some of these digital stations is poor to say the least . . .

Sorry for OT...

Does anyone know if certain TW digital stations are broadcast differently than others?

My signal is pretty crappy and it's split. But, it's usually not a problem. Except for specific channels that seem to need more "power". If I don't take care to really tighten my coax cables, certain channels always fail -specifically BBCA and Fox Reality. Channels directly above and below those work fine all the time... but those two will refuse to even tune sometimes if my cable is not nice and tight and I end up recording a blank screen. (I record digital cable via a ReplayTV controlling a standard digital cable box)

Any idea why those would be affected but others wouldn't?

Question:

I have 3 QAM/ATSC tuner TVs. If I order basic cable for whatever, I think it is under $15.00 per month, I would be able to get all locals in HD, plus MSG HD for select sabres games right? Then I could maximize my OTA to pick up CBC and CFTO HD and forget about constantly rotating the antenna.

I can't imagine MSG HD will remain in the clear for long for this reason.

As a side note, if there are people out there who have DISH you can add your locals in SD for $5.00 or so a month or put up an antenna for say $200-300 total.... or add basic cable for under $15.00/month to get locals in HD in the clear right?

or swithc to direct TV

Question:

I have 3 QAM/ATSC tuner TVs. If I order basic cable for whatever, I think it is under $15.00 per month, I would be able to get all locals in HD, plus MSG HD for select sabres games right? Then I could maximize my OTA to pick up CBC and CFTO HD and forget about constantly rotating the antenna.

I can't imagine MSG HD will remain in the clear for long for this reason.

As a side note, if there are people out there who have DISH you can add your locals in SD for $5.00 or so a month or put up an antenna for say $200-300 total.... or add basic cable for under $15.00/month to get locals in HD in the clear right?


I think you've got everything right here. But, to be specific, we don't really get MSG HD in the clear - we only get home Sabre games. Nothing else comes in on 94.1 other than home Sabre games.

I think you've got everything right here. But, to be specific, we don't really get MSG HD in the clear - we only get home Sabre games. Nothing else comes in on 94.1 other than home Sabre games.
Kinda the same on D*. We have multiple MSG channels, the main on on 621 but all the Sabres SD games are on MSG alternate 627; the Sabres home HD games are on 627-1. The only thing that's ever on either of the 627 channels are Sabres games. MSG 621 is where the main MSG programming is, such as the Rangers/Knicks games. MSG 621 is also available to us in HD, as is FSNY on channel 624 for Nets/Devils/Islanders games (though non Sabres hockey game are blacked out for me since I don't buy Center Ice).

Hey Guys! Looking for a little advice, just finished hooking up a winegard 4700 preamp on my antennacraft u8000, pointed it straight at the CN tower (using CITY 57.1's signal as my pointer) and am very pleased with the results. I am in northern niagara county, not far from the lake, I am getting all Toronto digitals (that i know of) Omni 1 and 2, cblt, cfto, sun, and CITY. Getting all buffalo (except WNYO) off the back. All signals are very strong with the exception of CITY, which was anticipated. I am actually suprised to be getting it as strong as it is, I don't have a real advanced signal meter on my TiVOHD, but the signal strength is listed at 45%, and an SNR of 18db. Looking to get any ideas on how to bump that number up a little bit. I have no splitters in the RG6 run, just 3 of those female type connectors. If I ran the cable straight, with 1 long piece, would that make a difference? I am toying with the idea of walking the roof to find any stronger spots, but that seems like it might be difficult without some kind of field signal meter.

Kudos to Rich in lockport for the equipment and advice!

Does 7.3 look like crap for you guys too? Here is a sample image:
7.3 Crappy Frame (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s232/derekforpresident/73.png)
I know it's interlaced, but look how bad the stationary graphic is. It looks like vertical displacement to me, perhaps caused by an incorrect resize.

Anyone having problems with channel 702 (WGRZ NBC) having audio dropouts and sometimes video freezing. I am on Time Warner cable with 2 different SA8300 units in my house and am having the same problem on both units. Watching golf on channel 702 produced many audio dropouts on Saturday and Sunday Feb 23, 24. Haven't watched enough tv to notice is it is happening with other network shows.
Bernie

farlz00; Be glad for what you do get, though that far north in Niagara county, I'm surprised you have a preamp.
Finding a 'hot spot' can be done w/ an analog station, but those that you do get from Toronto will ge strong enough that it will be hard to tell. As long as you don't get any breakup, you are fine. Those fittings won't make that much difference. Shortening the cable run would make more of a difference though.

BTW; welcome to the forums.

Noticed the problem with 702 also. Checked the QAM tuner on the tv & was noticing the problem with that also. Haven't gotten around to moving my outdoor antenna to check the OTA signal. Will post if I find a problem with OTA signal also.

Thanks for the reply videobruce. The "theory" behind the preamp is to boost the buffalo signals off the back of the antenna and boost CITY. A rotor isn't a realistic option for me with the DVR, although I may get one someday for ease of adjustments.

That said, I may have made a mistake, in my selfishness, I exchanged the winegard 4700 (19db) for the 4800 (29db) in the hopes of gaining a stronger CITY-DT. The "theory" here is that I would most likely need to attenuate the signal somehow to be somewhere between 19-29db.

I am not quite certain how to spot overload, GI is 20 miles from me, and there is a 91 degree spread between toronto and GI from my location. If I understand right, the stronger signals will be ok, but the weaker ones, ie CITY, would be worse? Well that seems to be what i have, everything seems ok, except now I don't even get a 45% on CITY. However, I have noticed significant pixelation on NBC and FOX (DT). I dont know if this is because of my new amp, or just a problem for everyone today.

So, I guess my next question, besides how to spot overload, is what is the best way to attenuate my signal? I have seen some variable attenuators which seem to allow you to dial up/down your amp level, and some in-line fixed db attenuators.

Any help is much appreciated!
Brian

Anyone having problems with channel 702 (WGRZ NBC) having audio dropouts and sometimes video freezing. I am on Time Warner cable with 2 different SA8300 units in my house and am having the same problem on both units. Watching golf on channel 702 produced many audio dropouts on Saturday and Sunday Feb 23, 24. Haven't watched enough tv to notice is it is happening with other network shows.
Bernie


It has been a problem for me for at least a few weeks now on 702 only. (Amherst)

I called about the problem a while ago and they wanted to make a service call. I knew it wasn't a problem with my equipment or signal to my house so I said I would just wait a while. I called back two days ago and the tech said it is a known issue and it it not TWC's fault. She said it was a problem with how they are getting the signal and that it is being worked on. She said she got many calls about it, and many people were calling and complaining about the exact same thing. It was declared "fixed" a couple weeks ago she said, but she even admitted it never was fixed or even ever got better.

I made a post about it a few pages back in this thread.

I noticed it on SNL a little and last Friday's recordings of Conan and Leno.. It seems to remind me of the dreaded WKBW problem fall 2007 that lasted for months.

I reported having that same problem on OTA. But I didn't notice it at all during Friday's Leno or SNL so I think my problem must have been different and/or solved.

Friday WIVB screwed up the HD of The Price is Right in primetime. Yesterday, WKBW screwed up the last 15 minutes or so of the Oscars in HD. And now this on WGRZ. Can ANY local station get things right?!

Seems most local stations are either lazy, stupid, or ignorant when it comes to fixing these high definition issues when they come up.

It's like they don't even have someone on the payroll to just sit there and watch the channel to see if everything is working, and if they do have technicians doing that, they are falling asleep on the job.

It happens so often, and with so many different stations, it's like they are all taking notes from each other, and all failing the tests.

I just watched the 2/18 Medium in HD from WGRZ via Directv last night and there was no audio issues at all. Was the problem that TWC customers are experiencing happening during that show?

Also, I had no problems with the 2/20 L&O either, nor the 2/21 Apprentice, nor the 2/17 Knight Rider.

This season of This Old House was filmed widescreen, but 43.2 has been airing it letterboxed, resulting in pillarboxes in addition to the letterboxing. I've read on other forums that PBS stations in other cities have been showing it widescreen, so why hasn't WNED done the same?

watching wgrz news at noon via directv hd. The audio is delayed over a second. Changed to ota and it is perfect. Must be a direct problem

I just watched the 2/18 Medium in HD from WGRZ via Directv last night and there was no audio issues at all. Was the problem that TWC customers are experiencing happening during that show?

Also, I had no problems with the 2/20 L&O either, nor the 2/21 Apprentice, nor the 2/17 Knight Rider.

They (TWC tech) told me it was a problem with the way they were (the local NBC HD signal) was being SENT to them (TWC).. They were very specific in their wording and wouldn't budge even when coming back to the issue in the conversation after discussing other things, like billing, etc.


So maybe others are affected too, like DTV, OTA, etc, but there's definitely a specific problem with TWC HD NBC channel 702. I saw it last night (this morning actually) for a while during an SD broadcast of Dateline around 2:45am or so... It did it only a couple times at the beginning of the show though, then once later and that was it.

I don't watch NBC HD all that much though, but every single show I have seen for the past few weeks has done it to some degree-- sometimes just a little, sometimes over and over again all through the show.


Oh, I deleted that show before I watched it that you were referring to, but I had it DVR'd.. I just deleted it to make more room before I could watch it.

This season of This Old House was filmed widescreen, but 43.2 has been airing it letterboxed, resulting in pillarboxes in addition to the letterboxing. I've read on other forums that PBS stations in other cities have been showing it widescreen, so why hasn't WNED done the same?

43.2 doesn't show anything in HD / 16:9 do they?

They don't have the bandwidth due to 43.1 being in HD. So when you take a 16:9 show and show it in 480i you only get 4:3, hence letterboxes and pillarboxes.

Right?

43.2 doesn't show anything in HD / 16:9 do they?

They don't have the bandwidth due to 43.1 being in HD. So when you take a 16:9 show and show it in 480i you only get 4:3, hence letterboxes and pillarboxes.

Right?
I don't know. I'm not asking for it to be HD (as I don't think TOH is available in HD anywhere), just SD 16x9. Can that require much more bandwidth than SD 4x3?

I just watched the 2/18 Medium in HD from WGRZ via Directv last night and there was no audio issues at all. Was the problem that TWC customers are experiencing happening during that show?

Also, I had no problems with the 2/20 L&O either, nor the 2/21 Apprentice, nor the 2/17 Knight Rider.

Was that the Medium with the little deaf girl? I don't have TW, but the audio was purposely removed in several scenes as part of the script to show that Allison couldn't hear. Using the CC, it actually keyed those scenes as having 'no audio'. Maybe that is what some people were experiencing?

Yes that was the episode with the deaf girl, but I doubt that's the issue people have been reporting since one report was during golf on 2/23 - 2/24.

I got the following info from my contact at WGRZ:

"Yes, we are experiencing a problem, possibly two that have caused the issues. One part seems to be a card in our encoder that is causing excessive data errors. The other is a compatibility problem between the PSIP application and the encoder that also is causing data errors. The combination of both problems generating errors has prevented some receivers from being able to hold a lock on the WGRZ digital signal. On Time Warner the problem compounds with the additional processing and re-transmission of the signal. What was a ¼ second burp becomes a 2 – 3 second freeze. We hope to have the issues worked out in the next day or two. We have already bypassed the offending card and have adjusted the PSIP parameters in an effort to fix the problem. I am hopeful that we can resolve these problems this week with confidence."

Thanks for the WGRZ info. I thought my set was whipped. :)

Yes that was the episode with the deaf girl, but I doubt that's the issue people have been reporting since one report was during golf on 2/23 - 2/24.

Oh, I didn't realize it was a multi-day problem!

I noticed the audio synchronization problem on channel 2 news too (OTA). Haven't watched NBC national shows for a while though - still angry at them for canceling Journeyman! But does your 7.3 look like junk too? More junky than SD substations already are, that is.

They had a crawl on the bottom of the screen of the Leno and Conan show last night for the first few min. of each show saying that they were aware of the problem and it will still cause problems- the freezing of audio and the image, etc.

It is too bad TWC has to mess with the signals of all the HD channels so much.. It causes a lot of macro-blocking and other anomalies on ALL the HD channels. I will DVR some ch 702 NBC HD tonight to see how it looks.

Hi there,

This is my first posting to AVSforum. I work for WNED and am happy to answer any questions anyone may have concerning our stations. I've worked 5 years in our master control and the past two years in programming.

Our ThinkBright channel just started its first online forum ever and we would love to get some feedback about our station whether it be technical or programming.
thanks!

I guess I can give you the URL after one more posting.

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewforum.pbs?f=238

Hi there,

This is my first posting to AVSforum. I work for WNED and am happy to answer any questions anyone may have concerning our stations. I've worked 5 years in our master control and the past two years in programming.

Good timing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13214477&postcount=4413

Hi there,

This is my first posting to AVSforum. I work for WNED and am happy to answer any questions anyone may have concerning our stations. I've worked 5 years in our master control and the past two years in programming.
Hey welcome to the forum. We love it when a station insider posts. I just posted a question last week about This Old House.

This season of This Old House was filmed widescreen, but 43.2 has been airing it letterboxed, resulting in pillarboxes in addition to the letterboxing. I've read on other forums that PBS stations in other cities have been showing it widescreen, so why hasn't WNED done the same?

Your answer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

The HD feed of the Sabres game tonight on Directv has a bunch of thin horizontal lines randomly appearing. Are Time Warner viewers seeing the same thing?

Also, how much longer before they get that one corner camera fixed (the one to Miller's during the 1st & 3rd periods)? Whenever they cut to it, it's a 4x3 picture with pillarboxes. All other angles are HD.

good thing i went

The "theory" behind the preamp is to boost the buffalo signals off the back of the antenna and boost CITY.If the BER (Bit Error Rate) is high, a preamp might make things worse. A rotor isn't a realistic option for me with the DVRWhy not? One doesn't have anything directly to do with the other. I have both.I may have made a mistake, in my selfishness, I exchanged the winegard 4700 (19db) for the 4800 (29db)"Selfishness" no, just possible a bad decision. Look at the last line of the 'specs' of the 4700;
http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=SAP4800

Now the 4800;
http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=SAP4700

It has 3x the overload capibility. At least Winegard publishes this spec as most, if not all of the no-name imported crap doesn't. 93k uV is still not a whole lot if you add up ALL of the signals from Grand Island, BUT at 90 degrees it may not be a problem.
Eleven+ months from now, three of the seven will go 'dark', so that will probabaly solve any problems if there are any.CITY, would be worse? CITY 53.1 is the weakest (AFAIK).I have noticed significant pixelation on NBC and FOX (DT)WGRZ is still having issues which are well reported here.I am not quite certain how to spot overloadShort answer; you can't especially with a digital signal. It's either there or it's not. Any breakup could be due to many things other than low signal. WGRZ is one example. With analog signals it's easy. Scan through all the weaker channels and if you see a 2nd image on that channel (NOT ghosting) that appears to be another channel, it's probably overload, or durning 'good' reception, a distant station (at least on VHF). WUTV ch 29 is by far the strongest of all seven. That would/should be your major problem, then WNED ch. 17 and lastly WNLO ch. 23.

As far as attenuators, I would try to 'tweak' you antenna further (hence the need for a rotor) to see if you can further 'null' out Gilligans Island. Without a SLM (Signal Level Meter) it won't be easy. One should be able to find older used analog SLMs' for around $100 or less.

43.2 doesn't show anything in HD / 16:9 do they?They can't, it's only a SD sub-channel.I'm not asking for it to be HD (as I don't think TOH is available in HD anywhere), just SD 16x9.No such thing as full screen "SD 16x9" on a SD channel (other than a watching the program the way it is now). It would be a HD broadcast on a HD channel of a SD program in full 16x9, but it would not be on a "SD" 1.33:1 sub-channel. Example is Motorweek. 16x9, but in SD. Absolutely the worst quality I have seen anywhere on a 'HD' channel.

(Hope that made sense and was explained properly)

Eleven+ months from now, three of the seven will go 'dark'


Who are these 3? 23,29 and 43? What about the best- 26? :D

17, 23 & 29 analog. That's alot of ERP that won't be there anymore.

26 isn't on GI.

Hey videobruce- Do you think this will better my chances of getting CTV/ City or CHCH/Global when they launch? Will they still be to weak to receive in NT? At that point would I be able to sucessfully use a pre-amp and not have to worry about GI overload?

BTW - I thoght WNYB had a repeater of some kind on GI (channel 15 ? -mistaken?)

This is what I was referring to w/ WNYB on channel 15: Is a translator the same as a repeater?

WNYB
Jamestown/Buffalo, New York
Channels Analog: 26 (UHF)
Digital: 27 (UHF)
Translators WBNF-CA 15 Buffalo
W42CO Rochester

They can't, it's only a SD sub-channel.No such thing as full screen "SD 16x9" on a SD channel (other than a watching the program the way it is now). It would be a HD broadcast on a HD channel of a SD program in full 16x9, but it would not be on a "SD" 1.33:1 sub-channel. Example is Motorweek. 16x9, but in SD. Absolutely the worst quality I have seen anywhere on a 'HD' channel.
Can't a digital channel like 43.2 show either 4x3 or 16x9 SD?

Fox's So You Think You Can Dance is 16x9 ED (480p).

Can't a digital channel like 43.2 show either 4x3 or 16x9 SD?

Fox's So You Think You Can Dance is 16x9 ED (480p).

43.2 is not a digital HD channel. It's a digital SD (sub)channel.

It can't show 16x9 because it can't show any flavor above 4:3 480i.

43.2 is not a digital HD channel. It's a digital SD (sub)channel.

It can't show 16x9 because it can't show any flavor above 4:3 480i.
Right, I know it's not a digital HD channel, but since it is a digital channel, I assumed they could at least show 16x9 480i SD if it was available to them (which I think This Old House is available in this format because I've read of other city's PBS showing it this way). But since the WNED insider has not come back since his posts last weekend, I'm still confused.

Follow up: In October 2007, a post in the HDTV programming forum on this site wrote: "Rochester, MN, KSMQ-DT (non HD) started showing the new season in 16x9!! I love that so much, It is really the way of future.... Hopefully they go HD too someday soon."

Also, in February 2008, a user wrote: "It's broadcast on the ota hd channel here in Nashville in widescreen."

In February 2008, a user wrote: "It's (This Old House) broadcast on the ota hd channel here in Nashville in widescreen."
So out of curiosity and jealousy, I contacted the Nashville PBS station and had a few emails back and forth (I won't name the source as I didn't tell them I'd be posting this info).

What I was told is that they are getting TOH in 4x3 letterbox SD, then they upconvert it to fake HD and zoom in on the 16x9 frame within the letterboxing (I'm not sure which step they do first - or if it matters) and then send it out on their HD channel in widescreen. (Is this how Motorweek is done at WNED that Videobruce referenced?)

I then asked if they knew if the fall 2008 season (probably being filmed already) was going to be in HD. They replied that it's "possible" this past season was filmed in HD, but that PBS didn't have enough satellite bandwidth to send it out to the affiliates in HD, hence the 4x3 letterbox. The good news is that they said PBS just allocated a second satellite for more HD bandwidth, so if TOH is indeed being filmed in HD now, hopefully PBS will be able to deliver it in HD to the affiliates this fall.

Would ThinkBrightDude care to comment on any of this?

Yeah and what about this too??

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6511373.html

What I was told is that they are getting TOH in 4x3 letterbox SD, then they upconvert it to fake HD and zoom in on the 16x9 frame within the letterboxing (I'm not sure which step they do first - or if it matters) and then send it out on their HD channel in widescreen.That must look good. :rolleyes: Is this how Motorweek is done at WNED that Videobruce referenced?Anything on 43.1 is a direct feed form PBS. WNED only passes along the signal. That have NO handle on it at all.
Motorweek has to be shot in SD for it to look that bad. ;)

Reply from Gordon Harp, President of Time Warner Cable Buffalo


Mr. McQuillen,

It is always good to know that you continue to have an interest in Time Warner Cable's products and services including our expanding HD channels. We have added and will continue to add more HD programming as this is of high interest and value to our customers. Time Warner Cable is working to implement Switched Digital Video (SDV) in the Buffalo Division starting in early summer. Our plan is to add additional HD programming at that time.

Best Regards,

________________________________________
From: Patrick McQuillen
Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 12:19 PM
To: buf.customer.contactus; Witmer, Melinda; Wolfgang, Robin; Jaworowski, Steve; Catter, Bruce; Harp, Gordon; Hobbs, Landel; Tremblay, Matthew
Subject: Re: SDV

Another Upstate New York city is adding HD channels to its line up, just wondering if Buffalo has any additions planned with SDV?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/06/twc-brings-four-new-hd-channels-to-syracuse-new-york/

Thank you,

Patrick McQuillen

Time Warner Cable is working to implement Switched Digital Video (SDV) in the Buffalo Division starting in early summer.We might as well stick all of your Cable Card capable devices up your ...
The same place they can stick their SDV! :mad::mad:

Dump all of those analog channels and they would have room for all the HD services they could find w/o making anyones devices obsolete. :rolleyes:
Duh.

I'm sure someone in the MSO has a vested interest with the company that manufactures the SDV equipment.

as yes another canned "copy and paste" answer from twc!

For the record, as a Tivo user, I hate SDV.

More current topics... WGRZ screwed up this week's SNL... here's what I sent them...

"i dont ****ing care that "New Mt. Ararat Temple of Prayer" is ****ing closed. What I do care about is watching SNL is full HD."

Question for those with TW and watch something "On Demand."

When the program is over and it gives the option to "Remove from List," choosing that doesn't appear to change anything as far as I can tell.

Am I missing some setting???

Broadcast stations are required to air PSAs' on a regular basis which includes weather related closings. I don't have the exact requirements as I'm not a attorney and have little use for the FCC and thier useless website.
Since can't generate or switch HD on a 'local' level, they can only pass along HD, which means those insertions have to be done in SD which means non full screen..

Having said that, I just watched a recorded program from 2 weeks ago with a full HD crawl within the network active picture area regarding their audio and video breakups. That they are aware of the problem and are working on it.
The terms sound and picture where used. Give me a break, this is the 21st century, not the 50s' or 60's. :rolleyes:

Mind you, they said it was "temporary". :eek:
How many months has this been going on now???

More current topics... WGRZ screwed up this week's SNL... here's what I sent them...

"i dont ****ing care that "New Mt. Ararat Temple of Prayer" is ****ing closed. What I do care about is watching SNL is full HD."
That will really help your case.

I did notice on Saturday that analog 4 was showing closings during the college BB games, but digital 4.1 was in full HD with no closings during the games (at least when I checked). That's the way it should be. Nice job WIVB.

anyone know whats up with wgrz on directv. The hd version has a audio delay. My ota is great.

anyone know whats up with wgrz on directv. The hd version has a audio delay. My ota is great.
Probably still related to the audio issues WGRZ is experiencing. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13227536#post13227536

Hi there,

I haven't read through this entire thread but recently hooked up my new Samsung 52" LCD to the cable feed from TWC. I was wondering if anyone had a link or reference to the listing of QAM HD channel numbers and the corresponding stations as my TV found dozens of them (many of which are TWC music channel nonsense). I haven't been able to find much info regarding DTV over the cable feed from TWC in Buffalo, NY. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

terrorbyte check here

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=14057

You're not going to find this info on websites, but Industry Canada is working on a transition plan for Canadian DTV channels. It's not published yet. Analog shut off is August 31, 2011. Some stations we hear are likely to revert to original channels. CFTO Toronto may revert to Channel 9 DTV which would give everyone in WNY a good shot at reception. After the final transition goes into place, power levels should increase dramatically for some Canadian stations. We would expect a major power increase for Citytv. The full plan should be revealed late in 2008 or in 2009. Big changes in terms of final channels and power levels will probably take place around September 1, 2011. Part of the delay in terms of disclosure of the final Canadian transition plan, is ongoing negotiations with FCC. From first hand experience, involving Canadian engineers I can confirm this is not a simple or inexpensive process.

You're not going to find this info on websites...

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country

I didn't realize CBC's first HD broadcast was the Heritage Classic outdoor NHL game. Cool.

FWIW; the situation with WPXJ ch 51 out of Batavia has been settled last month. They will use ch 23 for their digital channel. It's explained further here;
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=619606 WPXJ (TV), Batavia, NewYork (the“Station”), licensed to Paxson Buffalo License, Inc. (the
“Licensee”), will be constructing a new Channel 23 digital facility for post-transition operations.
The Station’s original separate digital allotment was on channel 53. The Station plans to use a new Channel 23 digital antenna for post-transition operation.

WGRZ did "maintenance" on their digital signal around 2pm on Monday. Did people's audio sync issues go away after that?

CFTO Toronto may revert to Channel 9 DTVWhere did that come from? :confused:

Take a look at the middle of the first post;
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=77278 CFTO, currently using digital 40 and analog 9. Channel 9 will be freed up

WGRZ did "maintenance" on their digital signal around 2pm on Monday. Did people's audio sync issues go away after that?
I never experienced any sync issues on WGRZ-DT on D*, but I'll see if I can get an update from them.

WGRZ did "maintenance" on their digital signal around 2pm on Monday. Did people's audio sync issues go away after that?
I got an update from WGRZ:

"We took the digital signal off on 3/17 for 15 minutes and again on 3/18 for 5 minutes in the 2 PM hour for maintenance. We are still battling the audio dropout and pixelization issues and have been swapping components to narrow down the cause. We have minimized the pixel issue but are still experiencing audio dropouts. We even have the vendor technical support teams stumped at this point. We feel that we may be chasing multiple issues instead of a single point of failure which has been making progress painfully slow."

They assure me they are actively trying to solve this and want a solution found just as bad as the viewers do. I'll keep you updated as I can.

WGRZ went out on channel 702 time warner cable Amherst last night from at least 11PM to about 12:30AM today. It was all black, and my Leno and WGRZ news did not record at all. I called tech support, and while on the phone it came back on right at the end of Leno.

This reminds me of premier season 2007 and WKBW, but not quite as bad yet..

Trying to determine the best set up for OTA HD.
Currently I've got a Phillips Mant-940 installed on the roof I get all the usual suspects in the 65-85 signal strength range(this unit comes with a 50db inline amp). Once in a while I get 5-1 cbc channel locks but signal is only @ 35 so unviewable until 11pm or later.
I built a diy coathanger bowtie and everything but 5-1 comes in at 85% or better with it sitting on the bedroom floor. For kicks I went and got a U75R from Radio shack trying to pull in a better signal from any Toronto stations.
Tried both antennas outside today up at the roof level pointing the U75R south south east everything comes in @90. The bowtie performed about the same but still no CBC. The question is why would the phillips rated at 40 mile range pick up CBC but not the Radio shack unit rate at 75 miles.(Pointed at Toronto) The second question is would a DB-8 or a CM 4228 be the solution pre-amp or not. Ideally I would like to set it and forget it I would rather not deal with a rotor. I live 1/2 a mile south of the airport so Planes can wreak havoc on primetime viewing with the phillips unit.
Sorry it's so long winded any input would be appreciated.

I'm not a fan of antennas w/ built in pre-amps, or antennas of unusual designs. Every so often someone tries to re-invent the wheel, but it just doesn't work.Ideally I would like to set it and forget it I would rather not deal with a rotor. I'm glad you said "ideally". Unfortunately, there is no such word in consumer electronics, especially TV reception.

If you only want the 'locals', yes you can get away w/o a rotor with a bi-directional antenna. If you want Ontario, the answer is no, unless you can get enough signal off the back side for the three stations SE of you (33, 38 & 39) that you can fix the antenna facing NW.

Regarding more signal, you can try moving the antenna around on the roof looking for a 'hot spot'.

Is anyone else having issues with WKBW digital signal? Over the last week or so I've seen a lot of breakups and green pixelation and sound studdering and some smearing. I'm seeing this on their OTA 7.1 signal, and also on the D* version, but since I'm seeing it on the OTA signal, I don't think it's a D* issue. The 6AM news last week was almost unwatchable a couple of mornings, as was the 3/23 episode of Here Comes the Newlyweds. Anyone else seeing these problems?

Is anyone else having issues with WKBW digital signal? Over the last week or so I've seen a lot of breakups and green pixelation and sound studdering and some smearing. I'm seeing this on their OTA 7.1 signal, and also on the D* version, but since I'm seeing it on the OTA signal, I don't think it's a D* issue. The 6AM news last week was almost unwatchable a couple of mornings, as was the 3/23 episode of Here Comes the Newlyweds. Anyone else seeing these problems?

Dancing W/ The Stars last night had several tiny audio drops and a few picture breakups. It's usually much better for me. OTA.

anyone else not getting 49-1? I have had a black screen for 24 hrs on this channel. Every other channel comes in so i dont think it is on my end.

Hi Guys,

I want to replace my outdoor 20 mile UHF antenna with a DB8 antenna. I’m using a Alliance U100 rotor that has been in use for more years then I can remember. I have rebuilt it a couple of times and it sill keeps going. I would like some info about the use of the DB8 antenna. I live in the Town of Tonawanda a couple blocks north of Sheridan Dr. on Elmwood Ave. If I were to point the DB 8 toward Toronto, I’m going to be looking NW right into Channels 17.1, 23.1, 29.1, 49.1. Will this overload my Sony HDTV and/or prevent me from getting Channels 5.1 and 9.1 and maybe other channels on the CN Tower? The antenna on my house is about 30ft. high and 5 miles line of sight to the Grand Island antennas towers. 2.1, 4.1, 7.1 would be 30 miles SE of Buffalo I’m also using new 75 feet RG/6 Sat grade cabel. I’m not going to use a pre-amp. I would like to here some input about the DB 8 from some who might have a similar problem.

Thanks
Tom-Fred

You would be lucky to get cbc/ctv w/ that antenna- I would suggest a CM 4228- I use this one and get cbc regularly -but not ctv. I only get ctv on dxing days. You may have better luck however - I don't have clear line of sight.

I live in the Town of Tonawanda a couple blocks north of Sheridan Dr. on Elmwood Ave. If I were to point the DB 8 toward Toronto, I’m going to be looking NW right into Channels 17.1, 23.1, 29.1, 49.1. Will this overload my Sony HDTV and/or prevent me from getting Channels 5.1 and 9.1 and maybe other channels on the CN Tower? If you can find a way to convert that RF into electricity, you can sell it back to National Grid. :D

Overload would be a understatement. If you don't mind spending around $350 or so, you may have a chance.

BTW, I would get rid of that click-click rotor, re-built or not.

anyone else not getting 49-1? I have had a black screen for 24 hrs on this channel. Every other channel comes in so i dont think it is on my end.

Yup. Noticed this Sunday.

Thanks for the response VideoBruce, I'm Still puzzled by the Phillips (w/18db amp not 50db as I posted earlier) picking up cbc 5-1, and the Yagi from RS not seeing the station at all. The Phillips is a flat panel the size of my hand and it's mounted 1 foot above the roof peak. I think I'll experiment with a nice long mast and see what happens to signal strength. I have a feeling the readings will go up but wind may become an issue if the mast has any flex to it. I'll try anything once.

Yikes, I just lost FOX-HD OTA, via Time Warner and SD analog via Time Warner!

WNYO 34.1 (or 49.1 if you perfer) was back up this AM. I noticed that when I was doing some evaluation of a new monitor and found 66.1 was 'in the picture' (pun intended). This is the forth time I have received SUN TV digital. As before, it only lasts a hour or two, this time, only a few minutes.
Signals were up 10db over what they usually are from Toronto. Just didn't last. :(

trojen; Can't explain RF. It's a crap shoot. Might be safer to say the RS antenna just isn't that good. I'm not crazy about thr DB8 for three reasons;
1. It's around $30 more than the 4228,
2. It's somewhat larger and probably heaver,
3. I rather do business with more established companies, especially American.

I never saw a test between the two models. Since they are basically the same design, I doubt there is much of a difference in performance. Same goes for the Winegard version.

BTW, to go 'hunting' for a signal, you don't need a long mast untill you actually find a 'hot' spot. Use analog 52, 57 or 69 as a reference. Those are the weakest that you should be able to receive.

Thanks Videobruce for the info. I might put up another antenna one just for Buffalo locals and a Channel master 4228 for the Toronto stations using a switch.

I would then suggest this antenna for the locals (no rotor);
http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/UHF.htm
The SL4BT. It's a 4 bay without the reflector which makes it a figure 8 (bi-directional) pattern.

And either a 4228 or a 91XG (on the same mast, above the Wade) for Toronto.
The cheapest I found the 4228 is $63 from Stark Electronics or $50 (plus shipping $16?) from Warren Electronics. The cheapest I found the Antennas Direct 71XG was $71 from JCC Electronics or $73 from Amazon Direct.

Is anyone getting WKBW's digital signal today?

I knocked my Silver Sensor off my mantle and I'm trying to set it back up and can't get that one channel. It doesn't seem to be coming in via TW QAM either so I'm hoping it's not just me.

Their major & both subs aok here.

It's back now for me too.

Hi Guys,

I want to replace my outdoor 20 mile UHF antenna with a DB8 antenna. I’m using a Alliance U100 rotor that has been in use for more years then I can remember. I have rebuilt it a couple of times and it sill keeps going. I would like some info about the use of the DB8 antenna. I live in the Town of Tonawanda a couple blocks north of Sheridan Dr. on Elmwood Ave. If I were to point the DB 8 toward Toronto, I’m going to be looking NW right into Channels 17.1, 23.1, 29.1, 49.1. Will this overload my Sony HDTV and/or prevent me from getting Channels 5.1 and 9.1 and maybe other channels on the CN Tower? The antenna on my house is about 30ft. high and 5 miles line of sight to the Grand Island antennas towers. 2.1, 4.1, 7.1 would be 30 miles SE of Buffalo I’m also using new 75 feet RG/6 Sat grade cabel. I’m not going to use a pre-amp. I would like to here some input about the DB 8 from some who might have a similar problem.

Thanks
Tom-Fred

I have the DB8 in Orchard Park and keep it pointed at GI and Toronto and pick the 2/4/7 of the backend. I have had CBC 5.1 for over a year with no problems, I only occasionally pick up 9.1, 25.1

If you can find a way to convert that RF into electricity, you can sell it back to National Grid. :D

Overload would be a understatement. If you don't mind spending around $350 or so, you may have a chance.

BTW, I would get rid of that click-click rotor, re-built or not.

Would you mind itemizing this equipment for technical idiots like me.

I have the DB8 in Orchard Park and keep it pointed at GI and Toronto and pick the 2/4/7 of the backend. I have had CBC 5.1 for over a year with no problems, I only occasionally pick up 9.1, 25.1

maevejr The problem I have is that I'm only 5 miles to Grand Island and when the DB8 would be aimed to Toronto, The antenna would be looking right at 17.1, 23.1, 29.1 & 49.1 and may swamp or Overload) my tuner and I not get anything from Toronto or even 17.1, 23.1, 29.1 & 49.1. You live far enough that this would not be a problem for you. Now with my 10-20 range antenna, I get a signal of 32-38 for CBC and about 25-27 for CFTO.

Would you mind itemizing this equipment for technical idiots like me.The fact you are even here, would not put you in that category. ;)

One UHF amp with a very high input capibility. Very hard to find amps with this spec even listed,
Six cylinder type single channel traps/filters used to drop the signal of the offending channel without affecting the rest of the band,
One Hi 'Q', steep skirt (narrow bandwidth) for channel 43 so as to protect channel 40 as much as possible. Those cheaper sleave traps were to broad.
All (except the amp) from Communications & Energy out of E. Syracuse;
http://www.cefilter.com/products/display_categories.asp?catID=1

I got lucky finding that amp. It was disco'ed many years ago.

You wouldn't need all of that since you are further away and won't have the overload issues. A decent amp should be all you need.

maevejr The problem I have is that I'm only 5 miles to Grand Island and when the DB8 would be aimed to Toronto, The antenna would be looking right at 17.1, 23.1, 29.1 & 49.1 and may swamp or Overload) my tuner and I not get anything from Toronto or even 17.1, 23.1, 29.1 & 49.1. You live far enough that this would not be a problem for you. Now with my 10-20 range antenna, I get a signal of 32-38 for CBC and about 25-27 for CFTO.

my bet is it would work. GI and cn tower are in a direct line for me at 330 degrees. You are closer though.

good luck cbc hd is excellent. I dvr a ton of movies and hockey and original programming is a big plus.

Hey Everyone! Global is now testing out of toronto. ATSC channel 65 and is currently re-mapping to 2.1. No programming currently, just a test screen with the channel name and time. Supposedly thier "must be live" date is april 21st. I don't have a real signal meter reading, but what i do have shows a signal strength of 72 with a SNR (signal to noise ratio) of 23.

Maybe a good time for a re-scan.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=83891

Now with my 10-20 range antenna, I get a signal of 32-38 for CBC and about 25-27 for CFTO.


Are you saying you regularly get CFTO? I only consistently get CBC and I'm in NT very close to GI also.

When are Buffalo stations 2.1- 4.2- 7.1 going HD (16x9) on local programs. (News,weather, sports etc.) 29.1 & 49.1 are doing some local comericals and Two and a Half Men in 16x9 format, Also I seen Fox 29 WUTV station ID in 16x9 format. I E-mailed 2, 4, 7 4 weeks ago and never recieved a replay. mabe some one on the list might know.

Thanks ..... Tom

I'm thinking of replacing my old U-100 antenna rotor and have been checking out the crop. A lot of names I never heard of. What is a good rotor. I will be using a Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna.

Thank ..... Tom

Rumor has it WNED is now re-mapped to 17.1 :(

Tom-Fred; Did you get my PM?

Verizon has started applying for cable tv franchise agreements. There is a public hearing in Orchard Park on April 16th. There is a copy of the agreement at the Orchard Park town web site if anyone is interested. I believe they have also applied in Hamburg as well. Hopefully they will get there HD issues sorted out by the time they are up and running locally, because i can't wait to dump TWC for good.

videobruce ... I hit my remote last for WNED and 43.1 was dark. I punch in 17.1 and there it was.

I'm new to this group and It will take me a little time to get use to sending and recieveing messages. You above message "Did you get my PM? What's PM.

Forgive me, but I'm older than my 1950 U100. I was in the TV service repair back then. 7 inch RCA 630 B&W chassis. Thanks to all for the info on this board.

OK guys, I've about had it with Time Warner and am close to switching to Direct-TV.

I live in Amherst....do I just call the 1-800 # for Direct or is there a local sales/installer that is recommended?

thnx

PM: Private Message.
Go into the UserCP/Edit Options and turn on notifications for PMs'.

OK guys, I've about had it with Time Warner and am close to switching to Direct-TV.

I live in Amherst....do I just call the 1-800 # for Direct or is there a local sales/installer that is recommended?

thnx
I had to have my dish realigned this winter and used RW Antenna Service from Lockport. They were great. I'm still getting lots of 100 signal strength readings. They are an authorized D* installer, and Rich is a member on this forum.

And if you do sign up with D* - welcome! You're going to love it.

I had to have my dish realigned this winter and used RW Antenna Service from Lockport. They were great. I'm still getting lots of 100 signal strength readings. They are an authorized D* installer, and Rich is a member on this forum.

And if you do sign up with D* - welcome! You're going to love it.


Thanks!! They'll be at the top of my list!!!!!

Videobruce ... Got all PM checked & it said that I have no new message.
thanks Tom

You have PMs' turned off. I can't send one.

Anyway, I came across these interesting pics from another site for antenna installs;

if you can find it;
http://www.highdefforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2213&d=1202929912

probably wouldn't notice it; ;)
http://www.highdefforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2168&d=1202189958

and for a real instalation;
http://www.highdefforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2164&d=1202171747

videobruce... I think I would go for the indoor picture as I might have a problem with the town. thanks