I could be wrong mrpergo but to my knowledge WGRZ does not come on till 2:00 pm. I have had it no problems at all the last couple of days. Hope this helps:)

Jayzzz, You said you had a silver sensor antenna and an old rotor antenna. I have the same situation so I tie wrapped my silver sensor to the old rotor in the attic, hooked up the coax to it and viola! I get wgrz with 100%, wivb 93% and 43-1 pbs 100% ( I should I live on the island and its transmitter is in my backyard.) But I don't have the same setup as you I am using a Samsung t160 set top box and have a 57hdx82 Toshiba set. I hope this helps...Joe

The Direc TV web site has the Bills Cowboys game on Nov.9 on channel 70 - meaning that it will be the HDTV game on channel 4 as well.

Good News!

But I have to wonder if bad play looks any better in high definition . . . . :D

Couple of things----

one is that in NT you should get the hd signals on that antenna. I am in Lockport and can get them with a simple Radio Shack bow tie antenna on the TV (though I now have a quad bow tie with rotor on the roof!). I am not on a hill or anything, and have a lot of tree's around me.

TWO, MOST IMPORTANT, is wivb'd hd signal has been crap for the last few months. I used to get it perfect, but since they switched their control room to Indianapolis it is no good. Last night (Thurs) it wasn't even on. I really hope they get it together before the Bill's game! People should be calling and complaining to them and the papers and the FCC or whatever!

What time wasn't it on (Ch4) on Thurs?
I watched CSI from 9-10 with no problem...

I watched 39.1 Thursday night from 8:00pm till 11:00 here in Hilton,N.Y.
with no problem.Maybe you have a loose connection somewhere.

Date posted: 2003-10-16
FCC Extends DTV Deadlines, Again
The FCC has taken action on 141 stations that requested a third, six-month extension of the May 1, 2002 DTV deadline. Of these, 104 received extensions, seven were "admonished," and 30 were left undecided.


The 104 stations receiving a third extension pleaded everything from poverty to construction and equipment delays, tower siting problems; the WTC collapse, and limbo due to pending FCC action on rulemakings or applications. According to the FCC, those stations managed to "demonstrate that failure to construct has been due to circumstances either unforeseeable or beyond their control." Additionally, they had to show that they'd made a reasonable effort to make progress.


The seven stations that were admonished--WVUE in New Orleans, La.; WICZ in Binghamton, N.Y.; WKBW in Buffalo, N.Y.; KMVU in Medford, Ore.; WSJU in San Juan, Puerto Rico; WDWL in Bayamon, Puerto Rico; WJAR in Providence, R.I.--were given six months to get a digital signal on the air or face fines. If, after receiving a fine, a station is still not broadcasting digitally, the FCC's next proscribed step is to pull its DTV construction permit. None of the 7 stations that were admonished during the second round of extensions reached the stage of getting fined.


The 30 undecided stations are actually satellite stations, that is, full- power terrestrial broadcast stations authorized to retransmit all or part of the programming of a commonly owned parent station. The FCC is still considering whether or not to allow these satellites to "flash cut" to digital transmission when analog goes down, so the agency deferred construction deadlines for these stations until that issue is resolved.

Originally posted by BLT
If, after receiving a fine, a station is still not broadcasting digitally, the FCC's next proscribed step is to pull its DTV construction permit.


"So if you don't wanna we won't let you?" What bearing does this have on their analog broadcasting rights?

Originally posted by Daniel Tonks
"So if you don't wanna we won't let you?" What bearing does this have on their analog broadcasting rights?

In theory, they could be off the air when analog signals are eliminated, but I have to admit I had the same question. The good news is that all stations that have been threatened with a fine have gotten up and running before the fines hit. Hopefully this will get channel 7 moving, but its pretty sad that it has come to this.

Adelphia Communications will start beaming three channels - CBS, PBS and Showtime - in the high definition or "HD" format by mid-November, with more channels to follow. At the same time, satellite services are increasing their offerings of high-definition pictures.

To receive the high-definition channels, Adelphia subscribers need a new set-top box costing $7.95 a month, or $4.45 more than a standard box. The channels carried in HD will also continue to appear in standard definition.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20031101/1040313.asp

I have powerlink digital cable now, and they told me it will cost $10 per month more. At least its a start, but it's not worth it to me at this point, given I get CBS and PBS ota now.

I was hoping for more . . .

When I called, they told me "next week" (so that would be Nov 3 on).
I'll pick up the box. I'm already paying $5ish for the current box, and it goes up a few bux that's ok, I'll give it a try. Maybe there will be something of value with the showtime channel. I suspect they'll pickup more channels as things move on, hopefully it'll get up to speed quickly.

I have a backup plan I've been considering, in light of the recent cable increases (I have full tiers and powerlink). I use my powerlink for my phone service with Vonage, it saves me a lot and just about pays for the powerlinks service in savings on long distance. If the HD on cable proves to be a bust, I'll drop back to just powerlink alone. Then put in Dishnet with this "superdish" and 811 receiver thats coming next couple months, looking for a big new user discount/install of some kind after the diehard dish guys get theirs all installed. My brother had directv and the picture was substantially better than the fuzzy stuff adelphia provides.

It'll all come to costs, of which I'll evaluate in the spring. If I can get better picture, more HD, at similar or lower costs, I'll switch.

What is the receiver going do? Will it have a fire wire so I can record on to my HD VCR? Does the receiver covert HD for HD ready sets?

So what happened to the football games in HD last Sunday? All I got was crappy SD upconverts in 4:3.

What's going on with WGRZ's signal, I can barely get about 60% signal strength, down from about 75%.

Originally posted by J in OP
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20031101/1040313.asp

I have powerlink digital cable now, and they told me it will cost $10 per month more. At least its a start, but it's not worth it to me at this point, given I get CBS and PBS ota now.

I was hoping for more . . .

I wouldn't hold your breath...I've heard internally that they don't have the bandwidth to get more than the Local 3, SHOWHD and HBOHD...

is there anyone else having trouble getting CBS (WIVB) to come in without freeze ups? post what type of box you have too if you don't mind. I am having a lot of problems, WIVB is telling me only people with Samsung are having problems! I have a sir-150.

Sometimes I see 39 blink off many times per hour. It's like their transmitter was taking half-second naps - if I watch the signal strength it drops to nothing at the same time the freezups occur, but only for a second or less. I guess if WIVB engineering says it only affects certain types of boxes then they are aware of it. I don't know if my symptoms match their diagnosis.

I am using the HiDTV card.

Originally posted by colossus
I wouldn't hold your breath...I've heard internally that they don't have the bandwidth to get more than the Local 3, SHOWHD and HBOHD... Wonder how this affects must-carry rules being debated, since there will be (theorectically) 5 or more HD channels in WNY at some point in the future (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, FOX)

I've also heard Adelphia will try to make the analog system go away and everyone have to use digital, but I wonder if that is a realistic plan. Makes all those programmable VCRs sort of useless, for one thing.:rolleyes:

Buffalo people, I am in Erie and have Adelphia also, what are they saying about HD, how much whats the cost?

I can't ever get a straight answer from any one from Adelphia. One person says this another says that. WHAT

I am considering an OTA receiver if all Adelphia is offering only locals, HBO and Showtime.

Let me know.

Thank You

I have had problems holding the CBS signal also. I assumed that it's an antenna problem. NBC always comes in great but CBS has a lot of problems with pixelization (is that a word?)

I'm in East Amherst and have a Terk clipped onto my sattalite dish. Using a Sony HD200.

I've been trying to decide what antenna would be better but I only need it for CBS and WNED and every time I make up my mind to buy one, CBS comes in great for a few days.

What antenna are you using? You are a lot farther from CBS than I am.

OK, I had my antenna guy here today and got it fixed! I did have a very low level on 39, especially compared to 33 (NBC). They must be putting out a very low signal, which caused relections off tree's on my street, which caused my problems. The guy switched me to a yagi which is much more directional, plus raised it 5' and everything is now running fine.
It used to work, I think WIVB has dropped their power out, causing everyone a lot of problems.
Solution, try a better antenna!

Originally posted by PVRick
Wonder how this affects must-carry rules being debated, since there will be (theorectically) 5 or more HD channels in WNY at some point in the future (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, FOX)

Are you sure the "must carry" rule applies to HD? I would think (for the time being) that carrying the SD locals would be good enough to satisfy the requirement, but this is opinion I have done no research on this whatsoever... I may be way off on this.

Originally posted by pmb1010
When I called, they told me "next week" (so that would be Nov 3 on).
I'll pick up the box.

Well I stopped at one of their local offices to turn in one of my 3 digital converters (I get one for my summer patio room). I asked about picking up an HD box. Lady says "next month". I tell her that I called and they said now... well they don't have them yet.

I heard one of the other girls mention that the "boxes came in", but those were the Explorer 8000 DVR boxes, but they won't hand those out either till "next month".

Betcha Dec1 turns to Jan1...

I'd consider Voom but my view to 61.5 is blocked by trees. Now that D* has announced dumping Direct-net or whatever it's internet service is called, and they will be using that bandwith for future HD, maybe I'll take a serious look at that...

Hey guys,

I have a Channel Master 4228, 7777 Pre-amp, and rotator all mounted on a chimney mount. Actually my second chimney mount, my first one bit the dust last month when we had those very strong winds. The pole ended up horizontal, but still attached. I bought two mounts since Radioshack was selling them for $.97 each.

Originally I had way to much mast, but now I've shortened it to under 10 feet, but the antenna, rotator, and pre-amp is a lot of weight. The 4228 ways almost 15 lbs alone. I don't think i'll make it through winter, especially if snow and ice start building up on it.

I'm hoping some other DIY people might elaborate on how they've weather proofed their installations. I'm think of maybe strengthing the installation with cables, but I'm unsure of how that is done.

Any help would be much appreciated,
Regards,
Frank

We are in Amherst, Snyder and have the VU90XR Radio Shack Antenna. Other than the problems with CSI that everyone seems to have we get great HD.
I dont know if this will be of any help to you but I will try.

Quoted from installation guide for the radio shack rotor.
To install the antenna rotator, you need two separate masts -- a support mast for the drive motor and an antenna mast for the antenna itself. The support mast can be whatever length is appropriate. However, before you mount the antenna, cut the antenna mast using the following guidelines. If the antenna is:
...up to 5 feet long, the mast length should not exceed 5 feet
...between 5 and 8 feet long, the mast length should not exceed 3 feet
...over 8 feet long, the mast length should not exceed 2 feet
....over 8 feet long with braces, cut the antenna mast 12 inches below the point where you attach the braces to the mast

If you mount 2 antennas to the mast, the mast length should not exceed 4 feet. Mount the small antenna on top of the mast and the larger antenna 12 inches from the bottom of the mast.

As far as putting guide wires on it....
They would go on the portion of the mast used for the support. Below the rotator.

That’s the exact set-up I’m looking into getting.
Can you give me any feed back on if you’re able to tune in any Rochester (ABC) or any Erie or Toronto signals??
I am using a Radio Shack indoor antenna (older version of 15-1838) and can get 90-100 signal for all three Buffalo stations with it just setting on top of my STB.

For your antenna problem, is it the mast that is bending or the chimney mounts failing?
The 4228 looks to have some wind resistance. I don’t have much experience with a chimney mount, but favor a heavy duty tripod mounted to the roof peak.

I would be surprised if anyone can get Rochester ABC from the Buffalo area. It is a weak signal for me and I am on the Monroe, Orleans county line. I have a decent antenna/pre-amp and get CBS and NBC with 100%+ signal streangth.

I really wish the CSI issue would get resolved!

Samsung TS160 chokes on almost all the CG scenes.

It looks like all the Samsung units as you say "CHOKE" on both CSI shows.
At first I thought it was multipath but then I noticed it only happens during CSI and works great during all other programming. Now what I'm curious to know if this is a problem with the equipment used by WIVB that affects Samsung Recievers or is it a Firmware problem with Samsung?? Does this happen with other CBS affiliates with CSI?

Originally posted by sprocto4
I would be surprised if anyone can get Rochester ABC from the Buffalo area. It is a weak signal for me and I am on the Monroe, Orleans county line. I have a decent antenna/pre-amp and get CBS and NBC with 100%+ signal streangth.


I'm in 14120, and got a lock on, and did view the Rochester NBC and PBS stations, one time around midnight when experimenting. Conditions were favorable at the time. I cannot get them normally. The stations in Rochester are not up to full output power (as is Ch43 in Buffalo - only 1/2 power).

There is another thread here, search for "Buffalo" with a lot of posts and more specific information to our area.

clight385 and BetteH, thanks...

Yesterday I mounted the bottom of the pole to the roof, as well as using the chimney mount and that really seemed to strengthen it. Its a whole leverage thing, my pole must have been forty pounds with over 10 feet mast, pre-amp, rotator, antenna... I thought:

"Higher is better"
"Higher is better"

and the whole thing ended up sideways as the chimney mounts turned.
THANKS...
.....
The channel master 4228, 777x preamp, and rotator is a great setup. Its certainly better then my previous setup using a RadioShack UHF antenna and no preamp, but then again I spent hundreds of dollars... and for me, the Radioshack unit worked fine for local stations..

My goal in upgrading was to get Toronto and Rochester. However, I've only tried to get Rochester's ABC station so far, with no luck. The Rochester ABC station (and all of their HD channels) broadcast from the EAST hills of Rochester. I was hoping to get Monday Night Football....Damn that WKBW.

Has anyone in the Buffalo area been able to get Erie/Toronto HD?

"chimney mounts turned"???
Isn't this strapped to your chimney? I don't understand how it could get "sideways". Oh well, keep working on it.

As far as reception:
Rochester ABC has eluded me, too.
Toronto (ch66 and 53) - I have not been able to get them.
They run VERY low power (see the link for CA stations, and their power output):

http://www.globalserve.net/~hepburnw/dx/tv/tv-can.htm#41

Here is a good msg website that deals with Canada HDTV:


http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=fddd0d119cd612f6ebee62f3d58b87cc

Those Toronto stations will be increasing their power sometime next year to full output, plus several more Toronto DT stations should sign-on in 2004 as well.

There was no CBS HD on WIVB in Buffalo, Sunday night, 11/16/03, for two basic reasons

1 - CBS network has only ONE HD stream
2 - the CBS HD football game NOT carried in Buffalo went 12 minutes over

The problem was that local stations are obligated by CBS to broadcast the same programming in HD as SD.

Ergo, with no HD football game to broadcast Buffalo got the CBS SD feed on schedule and was obligated to run that on their HD channel.

The HD feeds for COLD CASE and the two hour CSI were available to WIVB -- albeit 12 minutes delayed -- but they could not broadcast it as per their agreement with CBS

This has happened in one form or another on EVERY Sunday night since football season started and it's pretty annoying.

Perhaps CBS should expand it's leadership in HD with another HD stream to prevent problems like this or AT LEAST amend the agreement with their local stations
so they can use the HD feed in situations like this.

I must say I was really pleased to get the straight answer from someone is a position to know.

Would that all broadcasters were so forthcoming.

The HD transition is hard enough without pissing us, the viewers, off by not addressing our complaints. Hey, we're not heartless out here -- we just want to help the cause of HD.

Best,

Greg

I just spoke to someone who has an Adelphia STB for HDTV. He gets NBC, CBS, PBS, Showtime and HBO in HD. So Adelphia has increased their channel offerings from 3 to 5.

the box cost him $4 more per month.

And I'm one of them...
I retired my month old SIR-T165 when I got this box.

CBS's CSI *still* breaks up on graphic red scenes.
It's the station, or the feed. At least I know it's not my stuff.

CSR on the phone said that CinemaxHD due to be added "real soon".
[EDIT] - Cinemax is now showing up as a channel, but I get "not authorized" when attemting to go there.

Now that Adelphia has announced yet *another* increase (on top of the one that just happened last month)... I might be moving on to E*.
I can get new 811HD OTA and E* receiver, and 301 type 2nd room receiver, for free. And 4 months of reduced rate programming while requiring a 1 year commitment.

hey all you o/a dtvers. im in lockport and in the antenna satellite business for 25 years. if ya got problems receiving channels let me know. i know i've worked on a few peoples systems on this list. B.T.W. i can receive buffalo,rochester, erie, syracuse, watertown,pittsburgh,cleveland,detroit and others on my o/a dtv system. if ya want some tips e-mail me. if ya need some super equipment cheap e-mail me . if ya wanna just talk about antenna choices, receiver choices e-mail me. you guys with radio shack stuff!!! take it down and use it for a tie rack or clothes pole. They are not even a wind tested antenna let alone a gain or speced out antenna. ive got some super hot preamps and antennas and im designing another uhf parabloic like those that were discontinued by numerous antenna companies some years ago. So hey this is a cool forum. Wanna know more about tv dxing in general i can help you. their is a club that im a member of that simply caters to nothing but tv reception and everything to do with it.
ok ive said my piece. how about some chatter out there you w.n.y ers

which Watertown digital station can you claim to have received?

hey Rich the antennaman, I am just south of Buffalo (Hamburg actually) I could use a few suggestions for an OTA Hd antenna. I just a cheap Radio Shack in the attic now. I can only rec wgrz and wned once in a while I get wivb. I would like to get ABC in HD. Any chance that I can pull a good signal in from Rochester or Erie? You can email me at echo4747@aol.com
Thanks

B.T.W. i can receive buffalo,rochester, erie, syracuse, watertown,pittsburgh,cleveland,detroit and others on my o/a dtv system.

I'm in the Niagara area and I've picked up cleveland abc 5 and rochester pbs 21 in the summer time during some strange weather.

rwantennasat, what can you receive right now?

Using my sammy 151 I have:
WNED 9 bars
WGRZ 3 bars
WIVB 5 bars

And that's it.

ok im sure their are alot of non believers out there. So for the member who asked what watertown chs ive watched. Ch 21 wwti and ch 35wwny they are actually in Carthage. Now i dont claim to see these 24/7. Conditions have to be right to see them Primarily their need to be some inversion going on to get alot of these. I can normally( no matter the weather) see the rochesters and some erie chs. plus all the buffalo's. Also someone was talkin about Toronto digitals??Nothing is on in Toronto but a test ch 66 which is barely watchable from toronto. The Following is the list of proposed digitals for canada that i have. No definite dates given for comming on the air. But expect Toronto to be the first Canadian to have dtv.
Toronto
CBCT -20
CBLFT-24 french
CFTO- 40
CKXT -66
HAmilton
CKXT - 15
CITS -21
To the guy living in HAmburg with antenna in attic. That is a no no. You need as much line of site as possibe. And i reccomend a winegard yagi with a good winegard uhf preamp about 29 db gain. You probably need a rotor as well because 2-4-7 are in colden and 17-29 are on Grand island. As far as getting abc from Rochester. Unless your running a parabolic dish as i am you'll probably never see Rochester. Especially abc because wokr 13 or 59-1 digital is one of the weaker ones out of Chester. However being in Hamburg you might ocassionally see
Wjet abc out of erie. They are on ch 58-1 . all the eries seem about the same for power level. Although im sure they aren't. If you had a big yagi mounted outside or a 4 bay or something with an amp and a rotor you'll probably get erie on good nights. Im in a club where we dx distant stations on tv. Ive got some friends that have caught 700 mile catches of DTV under the right conditions using systems I've reccomended. If anyof you guys care to e-mail me direct you can at: rwantsat@localnet.com Or you can call my shop at 716-434-9216 Id be glad to talk with ya, offer ideas, design you a killer system whatever. We all need to keep in mind that these dtv o/a stations are all running flea power. So antennas in attics /terk junk antennas/rabbit ears/ etc aint gonna cut the mustard But im here tpo help and guide you. im very good at what i do and Id be glad to help anyone on this list.
Rich

another thing i wanted to mention. I have found out that the sr-ti50 has a very poor recieve compared to other receivers out there The 151 is a little better but still lacks alot on receive quality. im running a zenith hdv-420 which is really decent as far as set top boxes go. But i've seen some really spectactular signals on the Win dtv card for computer.

Did anyone else loose 33-1 last night (DEC 3)?

Before it 'went out' 33-2 came in with weather radar.
Is channel 2 making HDTV changes?

YES, I lost WGRZ 33-1 last night -- 12/3/03 -- until just before 9 pm and THE WEST WING.

Called the station and they admitted to "transmitter problems,"

I hadn't noticed any thing on 33-2 but then my Samsung SIR-165 seems to have problems with adding new stations.

rw,
used to live in the north country (Potsdam) so I was wondering just what Watertown TV because back then there was only a PBS station.

My ratshack antennas have picked up Detroit, Toledo, and Erie (analog) stations during certain weather over Lake Erie, probably ducting due to inversions, so I don't doubt if you're close enough to Lake Ontario that you could snag similar. You're probably familiar with this site http://www.oldtvguides.com/DXPhotos/ which has lots o' links to more TV DX.

When skip starts making Ch 17 on cable get "shimmery" I know there's a good chance of TVDX so I switch to the antenna and start hunting.

Drifting OT, do you have any experience with DTV cards for PC? I have the HiDTV card, which does decent digital and has good recording capabilities but unstable software and has been orphaned by the original US importer (though a new dude is importing it, he ignores my emails inquiring about support, and my Korean is insufficient to deal with the factory). I want a reliable and supported card before the broadcast flag mess goes into effect.

Re: antennae, I have rotator but it's a pain, I could really get by with 1 antenna pointed at Grand Island and another towards Colden, but how to bring those 2 signals together -- and make it possible to use the PC for hands-off scheduled recording. If I just sum the two signals I'll probably get multipath from the "other" one, right? And this card does not get along with multipath, I have to aim the antenna pretty carefully to get a good signal lock. Plus with analog not going away soon, reflections from downtown Buffalo buildings make multipath from Grand Island a problem. Ideas? PM me if this is getting too far OT.

Originally posted by dsspredator
Did anyone else loose 33-1 last night (DEC 3)?

Before it 'went out' 33-2 came in with weather radar.
Is channel 2 making HDTV changes? Sad to see 'GRZ deciding to copycat 4 and put up a radar subchannel, stealing bits from their otherwise glorious primary channel. How many weather radars do we need anyway?

Anyone taking bets on how long before they decide to Weather-Channel-ize and put ads on the radar channel, making you sit and watch for n minutes before you see radar? Whatever happened to the public service component of the broadcast license? Oh, I forgot, that went out in the Reagan administration. :confused:

STEALING BANDWIDTH IN BUFFALO

I've been reading that NBC and ABC networks are planning/plotting to set up 24 hour news channels for their affiliates to run on their "other" DTV channels.

Perhaps this is just going to be the networked owned stations IE NOT Buffalo or perhaps it's yet another global bandwidth land-grab for quantity at the expense of quality.

RE: Buffalo -- it would be most annoying if WKBW comes last to the HD party
but arrives with a weather channel AND a 24 hours news channel to reduce the quality of ABC's High Definition which, from what I've seen in other cities, is already
inferior to CBS and NBC.

Is the fact that ABC is 720 P going to help or hinder in that situation.

Does anybody have any answers / thoughts.

The weather radar is now gone and
33-1 is back on the air.

NBC and ABC networks are planning/plotting to set up 24 hour news channels

Actually, I would not mind CNBC or MSNBC as subchannels.
As soon as FOX, WB and ABC are live I'm dropping cable!

Picture and audio quality are not a consideration at the vast majority of commercial broadcasters, at least not anymore - there was a time when "broadcast quality" had meaning but now that the licensees are leveraged to the max and beyond, there's little that matters to station managers other than cash flow. With a monopoly on distribution of their product (market area exclusivity) there's no competition.

Most of these folks are disinterested in DTV other than as an opportunity to multiplex more programming onto their spectrum slice, i.e. sell more ad time using the same resources. If the idea is revenue generation, it makes business sense. Quality enters the equation in only a regulatory sense. Gee I wish the business I work in could command a monopoly ...

It's kind of sad, to think of the potential (and you can see that potential realized in other cities) squandered by stations like Ch 7.

Long term, DBS (your HDNets et al) will probably be the venue for "enthusiasts" except in the high-tech neighborhoods (central NC's WRAL comes to mind) because as we already see, the lowest common denominator programming comes to prevail in the ad-supported market and those who value their time either pay extra for quality (HBO, DVD) or use technology to bypass the drivel (RTV, TIVO).

Originally posted by PVRick
rw,
used to live in the north country (Potsdam) so I was wondering just what Watertown TV because back then there was only a PBS station.

My ratshack antennas have picked up Detroit, Toledo, and Erie (analog) stations during certain weather over Lake Erie, probably ducting due to inversions, so I don't doubt if you're close enough to Lake Ontario that you could snag similar. You're probably familiar with this site http://www.oldtvguides.com/DXPhotos/ which has lots o' links to more TV DX.

When skip starts making Ch 17 on cable get "shimmery" I know there's a good chance of TVDX so I switch to the antenna and start hunting.

Drifting OT, do you have any experience with DTV cards for PC? I have the HiDTV card, which does decent digital and has good recording capabilities but unstable software and has been orphaned by the original US importer (though a new dude is importing it, he ignores my emails inquiring about support, and my Korean is insufficient to deal with the factory). I want a reliable and supported card before the broadcast flag mess goes into effect.

Hi Pv rick
the watertowns ive watched are abc and another Wnny carthage on35dt and wwti on 21dt.the pbs up there isn't on yet i dont think.
Yes that website address is of Jeff Kadets. He is a member of THe Worldwide Tv FM Dxing assoc. As am I .I've been a member since 1979. ya wanna really see some neat stuff like dtv signals from 700 miles away go to www.wtfda.com have a look around there awhile. My friend Guy has the pci card but think he has the windtv card you can ask him about his if ya want. His works great. He is at GFalsetti@adelphia.net just tell him Rich sent ya. alot of guys in the wtfda club are running cards with great results.
Rich

Re: antennae, I have rotator but it's a pain, I could really get by with 1 antenna pointed at Grand Island and another towards Colden, but how to bring those 2 signals together -- and make it possible to use the PC for hands-off scheduled recording. If I just sum the two signals I'll probably get multipath from the "other" one, right? And this card does not get along with multipath, I have to aim the antenna pretty carefully to get a good signal lock. Plus with analog not going away soon, reflections from downtown Buffalo buildings make multipath from Grand Island a problem. Ideas? PM me if this is getting too far OT.

Just a note:
During the week in the afternoon a few days this week i noticed (as well as many of my commercial accounts did) that wkbw ch 7 was off the air or at reduced power. Im assuming they were taking advantage of the better weather to get they're new digital antenna up on the tower. they usually dont like throwing 100,000 watts into the installers up top so the shut it down during work.
I do know that work has been going on in colden in the past few weeks , so keepyour eyes out for ch 38 to be testing soon. The FCC gave them till years end to get it up and on or start paying fines???

WHAT UP' with WGRZ's GREY BARS and the WIVB sound and lack of sub chans?

When did WGRZ start generating a gray pillarbox on their upconverts? I just noticed 12/11/03 as I noticed that ER was NOT in HD.

I rather like the gray bars as my system can't generate them on HD chans and we all fear the dreaded burn-in . . . but NBC does seem to have the worst record when it comes to fogetting to thru the HD switch.

Our friends at WIVB were up to old and new tricks;

CSI had sound break-up thru out and the sub chans were not on prompting my SIR-165 to show me a new screen message "NO AV." Does anyone know what that means?

ALSO, Sunday night 12/7/03 I got PHENOMINAL OTA reception -- HD has never looked so good. Now it's back to just good. What was that? Weather conditions?

Does anyone have any other news on any of this or any further news on WKBW-HD?

Thanks,

Greg

Glad you posted Greg, I thought it might be my equipment. The audio on WIVB was awful last but I thought the picture quality was good. I switched over to CBS on Bev and the audio was okay so it must be at WIVB's end.
I also noticed no sub channels on WIVB as well.
The last I heard on WKBW was they were granted an extension but and if they did not comply they could face fines

Will WKBW be on at full power or reduced power at the start?

From Buffalo News on 11/18


Channel 7 was one of seven stations in the country denied by the Federal Communications Commission a third extension from the original May 1, 2002, deadline to go digital. Channel 7 was issued a letter of admonishment and given six months to complete the construction of their DTV facilities or face monetary sanctions.

Bill Ransom, Channel 7's general manager, said the station never received notice of being admonished and added it is now in compliance and moving forward to digital status. "We'll be up on the date (Feb. 1, 2004) we said we'd be up," said Ransom.

WIVB stated that they dropped the sub channels AND BOOSTED THE MAIN HD CHANNEL TO FULL BADWIDTH

" to prevent pixelization and freezing in HD sports events
and other HD shows where there is a lot of motion and detail. That problem
doesnt exist in upconverted, SD, shows in 4x3, but until we get equipment
that can dynamically and/or easily change bit rate for the main 39-1
channel, the other 2 channels will not be there."

I would prefer not to think that accomodating sports was the only reason, but for whatever reason the HD channel does look alot better . . . . altho CSI still
has brief spurts of micro-blocking but no freeze-uos.

I'm glad they did it

You are not missing much anyways. WNLO should have their own channel up and running on April1/04 as required on ch-32

I just got a Dish 811 satellite receiver, which includes an OTA tuner. Living in Dunkirk, about 7 blocks south of the shores of Lake Erie, I wasn't sure if I'd pick up a signal at all. Out of curiosity, I went over to Walmart and picked up an RCA indoor amplified antenna (~$25), set it on top of my audio rack and jacked it in. I turned the UHF gain up (supposedly goes up to 45dB) and did a digital scan and I picked up WGRZ (34 I think). I turned the antenna around and did another scan, and I picked up 39 and 43.1-.3.

Anyone have any suggestions for a small outdoor antenna and amplifier instead of this little indoor ones?

If you use an outside antenna, and from where you are, you may not need an amplifier.
Radio Shack has a small yagi VU-75 (something like that) that works OK.
Don't buy any Radio Shack amplifiers, they are junk. You'll need a 300ohm to 75 ohm balun for the run of RG-6 coax to your 811 tuner. Make sure you have separate satellite and OTA cable runs... more efficient than combining them with spitter devices.

If you still want an amplifier, get a 2 piece unit - one unit mast mounts at the antenna, the other end has the powered unit that goes near the TV. Splitters and satellite switches might give a problem with amps, too, since they block the DC voltage that the amplifier needs.

The Winegard and Channel Master amps are highly regarded and recommended. Stark Electronics and Warren Electronics are a couple online vendors that sell this stuff, as do any of the vendors that might advertise on this site...

I started out with that Radio Shack VU-75 antenna, and had pretty good results with it. It's about 40 inches long, so it doesn't look too much like an alien ray gun up there. I use a ChannelMaster 7775 preamp, and with good atmospherics, I could pull in WIVB, and I live in Rochester, NY. I upgraded to a higher-gain Radio Shack antenna, and reception improved, but it was always a touch and go thing - good weather, good reception. To have better reception, I experimented with a Televes antenna - higher gain, and better adjustability. If you search the forum for 'Televes', I'm sure you'll get lots of comments. It will be more expensive than that VU-75, but it will outperform it by a lot.

One thing you have to consider, though, is whether you can pull both channels in without having to move the antenna. If you have to move it to get both channels, you'll need a rotor. Those longer UHF antennas are very directional.

One last thing... have you considered staying with the internal UHF antenna, but going with a better one? Lots of people had really good luck with an antenna called the Silver Sensor. Pretty good capture, inexpensive, doesn't require a rotor, etc.

Good luck,

Ron

Thanks for the input, y'all! I was somewhat surprised last night when I was doing the channel scan and managed to pull in anything at all. From playing with it, with the antenna in one position, I get CBS and PBS, and if I spin it 180 degrees, I can get NBC. PBS is iffy, but CBS and NBC were pulling 70% without too many problems, and that was during a respectable snowfall last night. I'll have to continue to work with it.

I looked up some info quickly on the "Silver Sensor" and I was unsure if it would be worth trying. It seemed to go for $30-$40 but only had 6db of gain. Would that be enough to still get a signal? I think I recall some people putting the silver sensor up in their attic and running a line down. Any thoughts as to how much of a difference that would make? Would it be worthwhile to try, or should I stick with the solution that I've got working now? Thanks again for all your help! I wasn't sure how many HDTV enthusiasts might reside in the Dunkirk/Fredonia area...

Another good cheep antenna is the Radio Shack double bow tie. I had one for over a year and good results. I then put one in my attic. You should be able to get one under $10 bucks.

seein how your in Dunkirk you might want to consider the fact you have an open window to buffalo,erie and canada. Although canada isn't doin anything squat in the hdtv dept right now. Im in lockport and i watch stuff out to 700 miles on hdtv on the right nights. I reccomend you stay away from r.s. antennas. This is especially true if your mounting it outside. They are pretty much junk in the weather stand up abilities. I would reccomend you try either a 4 bay bowtie(less directivity and gain. or a winegard yagi like the prostar lines. That is what i install up here. We usually use a winegard uhf preamp as well. Dunkirk is a known long haul tv reception area,due to lake enhancement. If I was you I would put up a big ass yagi with a 29 db winegard amp and a rotor and start watching erie/cleveland/toledo/detroit etc . Lake enhancement will net you those stations on a fairly regular basis. If ya need some good equipment at a good price I am a distributor in W.N.Y for Winegard,Ch.Master,and Delhi antennas.
Ive found the prostar uhf series combined with a good ap series will kick but over almost anything but a parabolic dish(which is what i use).
Feel free to give me an e-mail or phone call at my shop
take care Rich
rwantsat@localnet.com
R.W.Service Inc
716-434-9216 m-sat

Originally posted by RIppolito
One last thing... have you considered staying with the internal UHF antenna, but going with a better one? Lots of people had really good luck with an antenna called the Silver Sensor. Pretty good capture, inexpensive, doesn't require a rotor, etc.


Yes, the Silver Sensor is an amazing antenna. I have it in Lockport, North Lockport no less, sitting in a bookshelf away from my A/V setup (something in my A/V setup causes some interference on some channels if too close ??). Anyway, I get HD PBS/NBC/CBS without moving the antenna. Pretty happy with it. When more (any) channels are available from Toronto I might go with a larger antenna in my attic or somthing.

well, I don't know if I just had beginner's luck that night or just a great set of atmopsheric conditions (snow?), but I've been having a heck of a time getting my receiver (Dish 811) to lock in on any of the Buffalo digital stations. Where I picked up NBC and CBS smoothly the other night, I can't get anything today, so I tried moving it up to the attic, and would get a great CBS signal when I stayed next to it, but it dropped out as I moved away...ARGH!

I'm going to head out tomorrow and see if any of the local shops have the Silver Sensor, and perhaps I'll give that a shot. Anyone know if Rex carries it? My only options in Dunkirk are Radio Shack, Sears (one of the little privately owned ones), and Rex. I hate to go to Buffalo and buy something that I might have to return...

I ended up getting my silver sensor online somewhere... I forget, not sure who would sell it locally. It was about $20 or so delivered. Might be able to do a search here on avsforum to find who sells em.

well the reason your having the strange affects are probably weather related.
those of you running indoor antennas will likley see great signal drops or even drop offs. The guy in lockport running the silver sensor must be in on darn good path for signals. Im sure he is also not using a samsung earlier model ,or has any trees in its path. When channels like buffalo 49 +51 who's transmitters are out east in Cowlsville and Pavillion. And canada come on do not expect to receive them with a indoor antenna. simply to many directions for that to happen. Another reason you notice that your signal went up then dropped out was you were standing next to it.When you did this you were acting as a reflector and bringing up the signal level.Anyhow my 2 cents worth
Rich in lockport

hi all ,happy holidays.
I 've only been a member of the forum for over a month. Since then i've helped alot of people on here solve reception problems and try to help them design a system that will work for them 100% of the time.
One thing i have come across alot which tends to frustrate me alot being in the antenna/satellite business 22 years.
Alot of people i hear on this forum and others tend to not want to spend money where it is the MOST IMPORTANT! The antenna is the number one item that will make or break the signal makin it or not. Some people on here have spent thousands of dollars on Monitors/Tv's Receivers/Sat receiver etc.
Then when it comes to antennas ,they are all running to radio shack or sears or worse Walmart?????? This is a educational talk. Get the best antenna you can. Spend a few bucks and you will not be having drop outs etc. This is assuming that you dont live within 3 miles of the transmitters. If you do,' get a coat hanger and use it!!lol But seriously, most of you need a good uhf antenna, a good preamplifier and it needs to be outside or at least in a high attic,otherwise you'll be getting a ton of multipath signals. Alot of you using indoor units are receiving a multipathed signal right now and thats the only way its getting to you. Uhf is very funny, it has a habit of bouncing off everything to get to where it needs to be. However it can also be blocked out dead,if that path it was using suddenly changes EX: new building,trees get foiliage, neighbor builds a house etc etc. An indoor antenna will be the first to suffer from this

Many pulic service agencies police/fire etc have used uhf in the big cities for years because of its ability to bounce around. The also use uhf repeaters to relay the signals over and over. We do not have that feature on hdtv off air signals. The number one best way to get good signals is with a good antenna. their are plenty sources out there including myself wher you can get a quality antenna/amplifier an rotor if needed. In the W.NY. area their are so many dif. directions that signals will all come from when everyone is up and running(including Canada)you will have to have a rotor or someone with strong arms. You could install and phase in 2 uhf's pointed at diff directions,but it depends on what ya want to watch. From my house i have rochester east/pavillion and cowlsville s/e /2-4-7 colden boston south
17/23/29 s-s-w/ hamilton west/toronto nnw. So i ask you how do you pull all these w/o using a rotor?? well anyway there are 2 good antennas out there. Bowties and Yagis both show similar gains (depending on size -length) however a yagi is much more directional. There fore those of you with obstructions like trees buildings etc. would be better suited for a yagi. I also reccomend that you get a good amplifier. These amps people are buying at R.S. or the ones in these indoor antennas are large noise generators. The do very little to really increase signals. I reccomend winegard preamps,even they're indoor types. Winegards are super low noise and great in the gain. So please do go cheap when it comes to antennas/amps/etc. I would be glad to help those of you interested in a good outdoor antenna ,even if ya have to put it in a high attic or on the garage or barn roof. Sorry i cant help ya much on indoor antennas for HDTV over air because I simply dont believe in them.By the way the ultimate uhf antenna is the parabolic dish. Although no longer built, we are developing a model for production and hopefully availability by this summer. probably a 6+7 ft model.
hopefully this has helped some of you and not ticked anyone off. Anybody who would like to see what i get on hdtv are welcome to stop by my shop and see it for real.
take care ,Have a happy healthy Christmas and New Year
Rich Wertman

I really hope WIVB can get their act together for the superbowl. Last weeks Bills game was one of the best I have seen, little to no blocking, great color and contrast with a solid signal. Todays game is terrible. Tons of blocking, audio drops, etc. Can we not figure this out?!!??

Well, has anybody heard anything about WKBW (ABC) yet? The only thing I hear was Feb 1st. Also what channels is Adlephia in HD? What about Toronto HD? When are they going boost the signal?

Adelphias lineup planned and/or on already.

702 WGRZ HD WGRZ HD Broadcast HD (High Definition)
704 WIVB HD WIVB HD Broadcast HD (High Definition)
717 WNED HD WNED HD Broadcast HD (High Definition)
750 HD HBO High Definition HBO HBO HD (High Definition)
751 HD SHOWTIME High Definition Showtime Showtime HD (High Definition)
752 HD STARZ Starz High Definition Starz HD (High Definition)
753 HD CINEMAX HD CINEMAX Cinemax HD (High Definition)

Bill

I'm starting to feel like a whiner here but . . .

Did anybody else have distorted audio on CSI MIAMI on WIVB HD 39.1 Monday Jan 5, 04??

The picture was better . . only a couple of brief micro-blocking incidents ... but the sound was bad thru-out. Distortion AND no surround.

WIVB's analog chan audio was good, quite good actually, and as soon as they switched to upconverted local news on the HD chan 39.1 the audio seemed to clean-up.

It would appear that WIVB has done something to their video chain since the sub chans are back with us and they don 't seem to be killing the HD as much . . . .

. . . . . but the audio still sucks more often than it should.

Anybody else??

Greg

Yeah, choppy audio on the HD signal for last nights CSI (1/5/04).
I'm receiving via Adelpia channel 704.

I noticed the problem at 9 pm when
the wife watching Raymond.

After doing some reading, it seems to
be a national problem and not WIVB.
The news at 11 was clear.

Did anyone notice choppy audio on CSI last hour? I had it consistently throughout the show. I live in Rochester, so I was switching back and forth to our local digital broadcast, and the audio here was fine. Of course, we don't get the HD passthrough on WROC - we get converted 480p from the NTSC broadcast.

Ron

Yep, WIVB Buffalo chan 39.1 had audio problmes on CSI and WITHOUT A TRACE.
Again, there were no major picture issues and both shows looked very good.

To; "dsspredator"

You mentioned something about a national CBS-HD audio problem. Could you give us
some more info and/or links?

Greg

Thanks for your report but haven't noticed it at the station or here at
home. I'll keep an eye on it.

John

-----Original Message-----
To: john.merrill@wivb.com
Subject: RE: HDTV


John,

There are audio problems on 39-1 during your CBS HD feeds.
The sound cracks and breaks up.

There are no problems during non-CBS broadcasts and WNLO
is also OK.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3174218&highlight=audio+csi#post3174218

I'm not sure how to post links?

I am watching WIVB out of Rochester, but get a lot of audio problems during pre-recorded programming (CSI, Without a Trace, etc). Football games seem to be ok. I emailed WIVB last week, and they are aware of the problem, and indicate that it's a CBS Network problem (not a local affiliate), though CBS is denying any problems. I would tend to agree with WIVB, seeing how many affiliates are having problems.

Well I guess that cinches it...WIVB sux for HD!! What the F*** was going on today with the Indy vs. KC game. Blocky transmission NO AUDIO!!?? C'mon! Get it straight! I know audio was ok over Adelphia's broadcast (that's how I get HD and since PBSHD was working fine). Can we get it together!! I will see if this occurs again during the AFC Championship game and if it does...hello DISH.

Hey guys.

I'm a latecommer to the party. I have an old rooftop antenna (don't have any specs yet as it's too damn cold and icy up there to look) and I live in Cheekta-vegas (just moved in). Hooked up a Samsung T351 and on the first night (last Tuesday), received NBC, CBS, and PBS without issue. The antenna is currently fixed and aimed toward the southeast (the woman needs her WB PERFECTLY). I plan on putting the rotor up there when it gets warmer.

Here's my dilemma. How's PBS been? The first night, perfect. Second night, some breakup, but showing 6 out of 10 bars on the tuner. Since then, nothing. Today, after hooking up an amplifier with +15 gain, I got 6 flashing bars boosted to 8 flashing bars, but still no picture or sound. Is their something screwy with PBS, my T351, or the reception? I guess I don't understand how getting 8 bars out of 10 would NOT allow me to view the broadcast. I know the current orientation is not favorable to PBS' tower, but still.

Anyone with ideas? Comments? Thanks.

Oh, and by the way, WKBW wrote me back. They said they "HOPE" to be live in DTV by "early spring." Clowns...

The PBS HD transmitter is on Grand Island, more due north west of you.
They are not running full output, so reception can be spotty especially when you are running off the side of your antenna. You'll need a rotor to attain full signal strength.

Thanks. I still think it's weird that I can get 8 bars (flashing though) and not a consistent signal. When it gets warm, I will put the rotor up.

Since the winds will be out of the ENE, anyone trying to get Rochester today?

Originally posted by rubblerubble
Thanks. I still think it's weird that I can get 8 bars (flashing though) and not a consistent signal. When it gets warm, I will put the rotor up.

Since the winds will be out of the ENE, anyone trying to get Rochester today?

Seems as tho reception of digital signals has 2 modes - on, or off :-)
Analog seems to come through with a marginal signal, albeit snowy & stuff. If you don't get a "lock" on the digital signal, it simply disappears...

If you mean Rochester digital, good luck. They are running *very* low power. The only station worth attempting to receive is the ABC station since they xmit in HD. I have had no luck getting that one, I get the Rochester PBS station once in a while since they are running a decent amount of power, and I got the NBC station one time playing around with a ChannelMaster 4 bowtie UHF antenna up not-so-high and good preamp.

Thanks again. I just realized after mapping my address, if you drew a straight line between Lancaster and Colden, I'm just about on it right in the middle, so I REALLY need to get that rotor up there!

Instead of adding rotor and control wire why not a 2nd antenna and downlead with A/B switch...

probably cheaper and certainly quicker when changing channels.

George, that's actually a great idea for the interim. Thanks for the advice. Until the other cities nearby boost the power so that my outdoor antenna might get the signal, I guess the indoor will suffice.

Is anyone else noticing lately that there is terrible reception problems with WIVB?? I have been getting severe blocking/unwatchable picture/no sound for almost a week. 39.1 sometimes remaps itself to 39.2.

I have had no problems till recently. No cabling problems and nothing I do with the antenna results in a perfect lock like before.

Cold weather?? Lower signal power?? Lake effect???

I e-mailed WIVB...no response yet.

Basically, this sucks.


Bill

Just as an FYI, I started a web site for Rochester HDTV and home theater news and info at http://www.rochesterhdtv.com

Jon

jonw, I saw the site yesterday and it's looking good already. So, you don't mind a few of us Buffalo people hanging around?

Biggles, my reception of WIVB has also decreased just a bit using my indoor antenna. I had to switch back to the rooftop to watch football on Sunday. I think it may have something to do with weather.

Sunday's AFC game was fine until the final minutes. I got "searching for signal" then no picture, however the signal meter was still at 100%.

Mind if Buffalo people hang around? Not at all! The more the merrier!

Of course still no response from WIVB.

I have an outdoor antenna with the strength between 'normal' and 'good' (good =100%) and get blocky and no sound crapola on WIVB. Channel 17 comes in just fine (similar signal strength). Ditto for 49.

I'll say it again. It sucks! I know I'm not using the best antenna in the world, but it was fine for a year and then all of a sudden....crap.

Arrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhh!

Thanks for listening to me bitch.;)


Bill

I don't know how long they've been doing it, but has anyone noticed that NBC Buffalo has been broadcasting their local 4:3 material with grey bars on the sides? And I don't mean normal burn-in prevention medium grey, I mean a LIGHT grey that is more likely to HASTEN burn-in.

As of a few days ago this has only been for LOCAL provided 4:3 material, NBC-fed 4:3 stuff has used regular black bars (which means the bars keep changing during commercials).

As a side note, I haven't been watching NBC much the past few days, but it seems that every time I've flipped past they've had the grey bars all the time... hmmm.

Does anyone know why UPN is now 39-1 and CBS is 39-2? Also, is the doppler gone for good? Thanks

Plugplay,

Reset your STB.

As of 6:57 EST 2004/01/27
39.1 CBS
39.2 No AV
39.3 UPN

WIVB is now broadcasting in 5.1 audio.
Hopefully this will continue on SB Sunday.

*Especially* noticable during the commercials!

Need to bump up the vol a little for the main show , then BLAM - holy crap!

Is WKBW coming online on FEB 1/04 as they promised this time. I personally dont beleive until I see it. I know they will face stiff fines from the FCC if they are not on air by April 1/04

Originally posted by dsspredator
Plugplay,

Reset your STB.

As of 6:57 EST 2004/01/27
39.1 CBS
39.2 No AV
39.3 UPN

After resetting, they did switch positions. Thank you for the information.

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
Is WKBW coming online on FEB 1/04 as they promised this time. I personally dont beleive until I see it. I know they will face stiff fines from the FCC if they are not on air by April 1/04

Where did you hear that will up and running Feb 1 ?

The buff. News had an articlle awhile back regarding this. they said they had an extension of 6 months but they were planning on being on feb. 1 i'll take a wait and see attitude. im wondering when fox/wb/pax will even begin to do anything.

Originally posted by Mr. Biggles
Of course still no response from WIVB.

I have an outdoor antenna with the strength between 'normal' and 'good' (good =100%) and get blocky and no sound crapola on WIVB. Channel 17 comes in just fine (similar signal strength). Ditto for 49.

I'll say it again. It sucks! I know I'm not using the best antenna in the world, but it was fine for a year and then all of a sudden....crap.

Arrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhh!

Thanks for listening to me bitch.;)


Bill

Bill, are you getting digital ch 17 or analog 17+49 and no hd ch's
if thats sop you probably have a bad cable, connection, matching transformer etc at the outdoor ant. the analogs will still come thru because they are powerhouse's The didgitals on the other hand need everything working perfect.
also if you dont have a rotor ,and it got moved during winds it'll throw the whole mess out of whack.
Rich Lockport

For a second week, a perfect presentation of CSI. Not one block or signal loss. What a treat. I didn't have to listen to the wife nagging "You really think this is better!!"

No 5.1 for me though.

As far as FOX/WB/Pax are concerned, they havent even been granted a CP yet from the FCC, so I doubt we will see them go online anytime soon. Nobody seems to know why they are being held up, but I suspect it has to do with some Canadian issues, since they are close to the border, that are not resolved.

People with HDTV/Adephia:

What cablebox (make/model) are you using?
Will it decode HD for people with HD ready sets or do you need a decoder?
If you have the Motorola 6200, have you tried the firewire with a DVHS?

Originally posted by rwantennasat
If thats sop you probably have a bad cable, connection, matching transformer etc at the outdoor ant. the analogs will still come thru because they are powerhouse's The didgitals on the other hand need everything working perfect.
also if you dont have a rotor ,and it got moved during winds it'll throw the whole mess out of whack.
Rich Lockport

Rich,

I'm in the city of Buffalo. I am happy to say that after replacing an antenna that was working fine with the new Winegard Sharpshooter all is well again...actually better since my signal is near max on the signal strength meter. This antenna actually picks up all the stations without having to move it even with the channel 17 broadcast tower in the opposite direction of the others.

Bill

http://www.winegard.com/offair/images/s2.jpg

Heres a blurb about the new Winegard Sharpshooter in case anyone is interested:

WINEGARD COMPANY WINS CES INNOVATIONS AWARD FOR THE SquareShooter™
SS-1000 HIGH-BAND VHF/UHF DIGITAL/ANALOG/HDTV ANTENNA SYSTEM
IN THE 2004 DESIGN AND ENGINEEERING SHOWCASE

Burlington, Iowa, December 22, 2003. Winegard Company will introduce its newest High-Band VHF/UHF
Digital/Analog/HDTV Antenna System at the CES 2004 show in January.

Bob Howell, Director of Distribution Systems/Off-Air Antenna Division said “The SquareShooter is a true technology and engineering marvel
and the answer to the ultimate in Urban/Metropolitan HDTV Antenna Systems. The SquareShooter will be recognized quickly as a technological break through, because it utilizes non-traditional electromagnetic
antenna design for superior performance and, at the same time, provides that new contemporary “look and feel” desired by DTV/HDTV consumers. It will outperform all but the largest high-band VHF/UHF directional
antennas systems on the market today.”

The SquareShooter™ solves problems no other antenna can solve. By far, the majority of the new antenna market today is directed at the Urban/Metropolitan locale. And the fastest growing sector of the market is in the Off-Air reception of HDTV broadcasts. The vast majority of these HDTV unit sales will be to these markets. The only current way to receive true HDTV resolution (1080i) is with an Off-Air antenna or satellite
broadcast signals.

Bob Howell said “The reasons we contend that Winegard’s SquareShooter represents a true technological break-through are found in the following 2 very important facts:

1. Normal RF propagation theorem dictates that the full wave length diameter of an off-air antenna for channel 7 VHF at 175 Megahertz is 64 inches. The fact that we have a 15 inch square antenna
design that can receive and modulate analog and DTV/HDTV signal 50 miles away from the signal source using a 15 inch element is an engineering marvel.

2. The antenna was specifically designed with a very high 20-to-1 front to back ratio that also accommodates the reception and modulation of both analog and DTV/HDTV reflected signals. This is critical for downtown urban locations where we might find, for example, viewers living on the
wrong side of a 20th floor downtown high-rise with respect to the transmit tower of the TV station they want to receive. This antenna was specifically designed to allow pointing of the antenna at another building to zero-in on the desired reflected signal, reject all other multi-path signals and still
be able to modulate analog and DTV/HDTV. This fact was proven in both our Chicago, IL and Tampa, FL beta tests.”

Specifically designed to receive and demodulate DTV/HDTV transmissions from reflected broadcast signals, the SquareShooter™ is uniquely suited for urban/metropolitan locations where line-of-sight to the transmit
source is blocked. This 15" square antenna can receive and demodulate clear analog broadcast signals up to 45 miles and outstanding DTV/HDTV signals over 50 miles from the transmit source and is ideal for the
suburban market.

Because of its size and versatile installation options, it can be mounted practically anywhere for the best DTV/HDTV reception such as on wall, fascias, roofs, patios, attics, or railings. With the addition of our DS-
1000 pole mount which meets DirecTV and Dish Network’s wind load requirements, the SquareShooter™, when mounted above a satellite dish and diplexed with the satellite system, will incorporate satellite and Off-
Air signal onto one coax cable.

Phillip Partian, Senior Vice President, Dow Electronics who asked to participate in the Beta field testing at CES 2003 had this to say about the SquareShooterTM “I’ve been around this industry for 33 years. I’ve seen
and tested a lot of antennas. That’s afforded me a lot of practical experience with Off-Air antennas. I’ve conducted 50-60 seminars on Off-Air antennas over the past 5 years. And I’ve never seen an antenna like
this antenna” We’ve got our own antenna testing farm out back with over a dozen antennas in it. They’re mounted 25 to 30 feet high above our roof line to maximize their performance. Any height less than that, we get ghosting and multi-path from the test. We know we need that 25 foot height to get the signal. The signals that we get during these tests are naturally the most powerful channels, ABC, NBC, and CBS. And naturally the low and high range signals would come in fairly well, but we would still get some ghosting.

Even using the Winegard WS-5646 or Channel Master 5646 Super V, we got ghosting.

We put the SquareShooter up on a 15 feet pole behind our building in the middle of our parking lot in an area that we knew from past experience we would get ghosting, because Bob Howell told me this unit had
the ability to eliminate some ghosting, even at this lower height. We put it up, attached an amplifier, hooked it up to a TV set and the picture was absolutely phenomenal. We compared testing with the Channel Master
four bay bow tie and the SquareShooter outperformed it. I was amazed.
We tuned in on some Sarasota channels. Channel 40 in Sarasota is about 40 miles from were we’re located in Tampa and the SquareShooter brought it in. I’ve tested other antennas on Sarasota stations the size of
our WS-0038 (Winegard special) and would just barely receive channel 40. Most people would say that it was not possible to pick up Channel 40 from Tampa with a traditional element antenna, even with one that
large, let alone a small 15 inch square antenna, but I saw it with my own eyes. Not only did it pick up the signal, but it eliminated all ghosting. I was flabbergasted.

Another truly unique benefit of this antenna is its front-to-back ratio performance. It was smart of Winegard to incorporate in the design of the SquareShooter its ability to reject ghosting, particularly because that
feature allows it to pick up ghost-free bounced signals. From our location, almost all of the transmit towers are due south, as is channel 40 in Sarasota. We pointed this antenna south and still picked up Channel 10
here in Tampa exceptionally well which was behind our building to the northeast and to the rear of the SquareShooter and Channel 32 which was behind us to the northwest. That ability to bring in that bounced
signal, eliminating the ghosting, and deliver a clear signal, is truly exceptional.

Price is not a concern for me with the SquareShooter, because it does the job it’s supposed to do. It solves problems no other antenna can solve. We will be able to go into metropolitan areas where we now have a
real ghosting problem, particularly for the reception of HDTV signals, were we have multi-path or co-channel interference concerns. The SquareShooter antenna will be a “Drop-dead” antenna for that market place and also for some analog channels that we have had some problems with in some metropolitan areas where we are not going to see local satellite availability.

The antenna offers extremely versatile mounting options and can be mounted practically anywhere. One of the best and fastest mounting options is over a satellite dish using the DS-1000 allowing for a 360 degree
rotation to aim it at the transmitting towers and not need any more room than is already used for a 20 inch satellite dish. It’s the antenna winner we’re looking for. It will sell itself once distributors see what it’s capable
of doing. We’re very much looking forward to it.”

Bill, have you been able to get any success with Rochester or Erie with your new Sharpshooter?

What is going on with the terrible picture on CBS when they switch to 16:9?!?

This is unacceptable with only hours left until the start of the game.

The 4:3 picture is clear, but I don't want to watch the game in 4:3!!!!

When the pre-game started... the picture was horrible. Now, its's 4x3 upconverted. Come on WIVB as we are counting on you.

Now its in HD w/ 5.1!
It's perfect now. :):)

Its HD here with DD5.1 and picture is very good :)

well now we know that for at least the superbowl, wivb will dedicate the whole bandwidth to HD ... WNLO is turned off.

dropouts in the 1/2time show sound ... annoying :(

Yup, sound was choppy throughout the halftime show... odd since it was fine both before and afterwards. But it was VERY nice of them to turn off both sub-channels and give us an unmolested signal.

And did anyone else have two several-second-long audio dropouts during Survivor (a show screaming to be done in HD).

Originally posted by rf75
dropouts in the 1/2time show sound ... annoying :(

But we got to see Janet's breast:D

Daniel I had the same audio drops.Don't know what the hell that was .

During half time I was thinking it might even have been a problem at the source, especially since the rest of the show had been so good and consistent.

I just wanted to let anyone interested know that I sent an email to channel 7 asking when they will be broadcasting and I got a reply saying that it is slated for this month (Feb)

Thanks for the info! I sure hope that they up and running by the new Stephen King Series.

Be Still My Heart:

WKBW goes HD !

Yes. Jennifer Garner in HD . . . and LINE OF FIRE and the movies !!

I'm optimistic but I'll beleive it when I see it.


Good news.

Any other WKBW news / rumors out there?

I also emailed wkbw and got the same response feb.16-23rd they will be testing,then full time after that

In regards to WKBW did you ask if it was going to be true HD, or just a digital version of their SD channel?

pmb1010....

When I asked the question I specified HDTV and when he answered it he also said HDTV.

Originally posted by BetteH
pmb1010....

When I asked the question I specified HDTV and when he answered it he also said HDTV.

good news, then. Too many stations around the country (Rochester, for example) are going digital but not HD!

pmb

(re ABC) What email address are you guys sending this to? I enquired and didn't hear back.

How long has WIVB been sending 5.1 audio for primetime shows? Noticed CSI: Miami was sent as 5.1 tonight.

WHOO HOO!!!

WUTV-29 FOX buffalo is up and running! As of 9:00am I was just doing a scan and this was memerized.

Details:
29-0 Analog
29-1 Digital (menu-WUTV-HD) I'm getting color bars (test pattern) and receiver states HDTV. I'm also getting Dolby Digital 2.0 with no sound.
29-2 Digital (menu-WUTV-SD) I'm getting same as 29-0 but in digital. Sound is Dolby Digital 2.0

I'm getting a very good signal with no drop outs on 29-2. On 29-1 I believe they are testing because they seem to be going in and out with long periods in between.

29 is in HD? No Way! This is great news, considering the Super Bowl is on FOX next year, right?

Oh, when I e-mailed WKBW about a month ago, they told me "early spring" for a live date. Am I the only one here who thinks their staff is clueless?

I havent been able to get a signal on 29,even in scanning digital stations.Is it still up?Wonder when theyll be full tim?

That's terrific news about Fox being on the air in Buffalo. Can anyone please tell me where the transmitter is? I live in Rochester, NY, and I can get WIVB anytime of day or night. I get WGRZ when the atmospherics are good, but I keep the antenna pointed the same direction for both: southwest.

Where would I rotate the antenna to in order to pick up channel 29?

Thanks in advance,

Ron

I believe the FOX tower is on Grand Island, meaning you will need to orient your antenna probably due west. I have not been home to check it yet.

Originally posted by lurchwitts
I havent been able to get a signal on 29,even in scanning digital stations.Is it still up?Wonder when theyll be full tim?

Try channel "14" "14.1" and "14.2".

Yup, their real channel is 14. Punching in that will redirect you to 29.1 (silly Samsung receiver I have won't let you punch in the "dot" so I'm otherwise forced to scroll up).

Amazing, I was NOT expecting FOX to come on the air at any point in the near future! I get fantastic reception of 29 analog from my position, so 29 digital should be good even if their output power is low.

what channel will wkbw be on?Is there a site where I can find this info?

WKBW will be chan 38

AND HOPEFULLY SOON

How embarassing to be beaten to the punch by . . . FOX.

Great news. I just did a channel scan and 29.1 and 29.2 came up. About time, and when WKBW goes live it will be the icing on the cake. So hopefully by the end of the month we'll have it all. ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and FOX.

Bill

I have a email I received from Bill Ransom (Chief WKBW Engineer) posted on my web site, in it he states testing will start on 2/23 and if all tests well it will be on the air live thereafter. You can read it here: http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/portal.php

BTW, I'm doing my best to cover Buffalo and Syracuse issues as well as Rochester now. Let me know if you have any suggestions for the site.
Thanks
Jon

I hope WKBW-DT is not low power either. Also now all we need is WNYO-DT which is WB, the only network I cant watch HD on yet. WNYO is owned by WUTV so hopefully they will be on soon too.

New Cable Guy where are you getting UPN in HD?

I scanned in channel 29-1 and 29-2 this evening on my Samsung STB. Yes it is on Grand Island. I can literally see the tower from my house so I know I should get a great signal. Is it true that the super bowl is on fox next year? In the meantime I would like to see alias in hi-def before another season ends. It doesn't get any better....Joe

Toshiba 57HDX82
Samsung 160
Onkyo 600
Acoustic Research HC6
Sony SLV-D300P

Sorry, actually I dont have UPN HD, although some Hamilton area cable companies are offering WKBD-DT Detroit which carries HD programming from UPN. My Cable company doesn't carry it, although WNLO-DT on ch32 will be up on April 1/04 which is UPN and will have HD programming. Their is no available WB HD programming anywhere close to southern Ontario. Even WDWB-DT Detroit is not up as of yet I beleive.

No problem New Cable Guy, I was just worried I was missing something in my "Buffalo HDTV Status" page. You guys in Buffalo are getting it all together though.

Well ... my Samsung 165 teased me last evening -- after reading today's posts here I ran a chan set-up scan and it tantalizingly paused for a long time onj chan 14 . . . . before saying "no signal"

Very annoying.

The one FOX show I watch is "24" and I had hoped to see it in DTV tonite.

Alas, not.

Has anyone heard any statement from WUTV about when they're going on?
Titan TV has them as still applying to the FCC.

What up?

Greg

My HD200 lists it as 29.1 and 29.2...I watched '24' on 29.2 tonight.

Bill

Thanks Mr. Biggles;

How far are you from their tower?

I'm 30 odd miles south of Buffalo and just got 29

Got any idea why a Samsung 165 would only get 29.0 and not 29.1 and 29.2
like Mr. Biggles manly HD 200?



Thanks

I live in Fredonia NY and I am also able to receive 29.1 and 29.2 through my Sony HD300. I am at least 50 miles away.

John

I'm 60 miles away as the crow flies, and get the test signal with very good strength.

Originally posted by GregHoey
Thanks Mr. Biggles;

How far are you from their tower?

I'm 30 odd miles south of Buffalo and just got 29

Got any idea why a Samsung 165 would only get 29.0 and not 29.1 and 29.2
like Mr. Biggles manly HD 200?



Thanks

Greg,

I'm only about 10+ or so miles from Grand Island. Your well within the reach of getting it, so my question is do you get the PBS feeds (43.1, 43.2 etc)? If you do then 29.1 and 29.2 should come in.

Bill

Mr.Biggles are you entering 14 or 29 into the HD200 for it to remap 29.1 & 29.2 ?I tried both last night but got nothing

Yes Virginia, there is a Fox 1080i station on the air.

So far saw some SEMPTE color bars on 14.1 (29.1) and simulcast of the 480i SD channel on 14.2 (29.2).

I have Samsung T165, and by typing 14 manually and it brought up and converted it to 29.1 and 29.2

29.0 is the analog station,
29.1 has the color bars,
29.2 has Ch29 playing.

I am in 14120 so I'm close to the xmitters.
Since I'm using Adelphia cable for my HD currently, this box is hooked up to SD tv in a spare room, and using 10 ft RG6 to a balun, and 2 pieces wire with alligator clips attached to curtain for antenna.

T165 here as well, just punch in 14 and it'll go to 29.1.

Hmm, so it's 1080i, eh? Not that there's anything to play at that resolution... :-)

Edit: Is fox officially 1080i or 720p?

Seems a little strange that it's 1080i now...? I thought FOX has stated that they're going 720p like ABC.

Never thought I'd be annoyed that I couldn't get Fox but . . . . .

Thanks for the feedback gang but chan 14 and/or 29.1 and 29.2 still don't
show up on my 165 either auto scan or manual entry.

I am getting chan 43.1 and 43.2 just fine although not as solid as WIVB 39.1 or WGRZ 31.1 -- does anyone have an idea what power Fox is using now. Is it less than WNED??? My reception is not great on regular chan 29 . . . takes lots of indoor antenna tweaking

Any of you Samsung 165 owners got any ideas? I searched the forum threads and couldn't find anything like this.

So. Is Fox WIDESCREEN or normal?

Now if they only had more decent shows.

Any news as to when WUTV-DT will be offically on air?

Any more rumors on WKBW?

Thanks,

Greg

I think if you're not getting it then it's a signal strengh issue for you, and not a problem with the receiver. The fact that analog reception is poor is probably a good indicator (I have no idea what their HDTV output is right now, but it's likely not full strength - although I get good strengh where I am 60 miles away).

Right now it's widescreen color bars. :-) I tried to contact WUTV regarding HDTV, but couldn't find any real email addresses. I found "fox29@wutv.com", but that comes back undeliverable.

Based on my experience, WUTV's signal appears to be a little stronger than the PBS signal from my location. You might just be in a very bad spot for its reception, like Daniel said.

Maybe you need a good outdoor antenna to get it. I'm also 60 miles away as the crow flies in Canada and have no problems, although my analog reception is perfect.

Hey New Cable Guy:

Take a drive over to the CN tower, and tell the CityTV guys to kick their HD transmitter in the output tube...
I want to be able to watch Ed the Sock & the hot tub girls in (at least) digital, as the analog reception is just too darn fuzzy!

I'm in Rochester, and although I can pick up WIVB with an outside antenna any time of day or night, I am unable to even detect WUHF. Is it on around the clock?

Ron

I think City-Dt is broadcasting at a measely 600 watts. They have to go full power within a certain time period. I'm not sure when.

I emailed City TV last week and they said they are waiting for the Canadian equivalent of the FCC to authorize it.

I have light bulbs that put out
more power than City-Hd.

I have picked up the station twice
and I'm exactly 33 miles south in St. Catharines.

All buffalo channels are no problem with
WNED & WUTV both at 9 bars and WIVB &
WIVB at 3 to 6 bars. All the time!

I'm only 15 miles away from the CN Tower, but with no line-of-sight (annoying valley), and City-DT is the absolute strongest digital signal I can get.

Next up in strength is PBS (60 miles), FOX is hard to tell but seems similar, followed by CBS (89 miiles) and finally NBC (87 miles, and I have to be more picky on antenna direction to get this one).

I've tried watching Las Vegas the past few weeks using my Dish 811 HD receiver, and I've been noticing a really bad audio sync. WIVB-DT gives me no problems, and I think that non-HD seemed to be fine on 34 as well, but watching Las Vegas is like watching an old kung fu movie. Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

Chris- I have a 6000, and I sometimes experience the sync problem. Try switching to the channel just above or below the offending one and back again. Sometimes this helps, sometimes not.

I havent noticed any sync problems with WGRZ-DT, always works fine for me, on the other hand WIVB has audio problems. The audio goes out completely every once in a while or I hear a static like sound on non HD programming. The HD stuff is perfect.

Originally posted by Mr. Biggles
Rich,

I'm in the city of Buffalo. I am happy to say that after replacing an antenna that was working fine with the new Winegard Sharpshooter all is well again...actually better since my signal is near max on the signal strength meter. This antenna actually picks up all the stations without having to move it even with the channel 17 broadcast tower in the opposite direction of the others.

Bill

Bill and all others,
i have tested the winegard sharpshooter and this antenna does perform great in very congested urban areas. this antenna is designed for use where alot of tall buildings are located. the high f/b ratio utilizes ghosting and reflections off buildings to make it work.
by no means will this replace the conventional antenna for hdtv over air signals. If you want any kind of distance or high signals from far reaching stations,then you'll still need a good sized yagi and a preamp.Sharpshooter was designed primarily for urban city dwellers in very large populated areas.
they are limited in milage by probably a max of 20-25 miles. In other words dont expect to see canada or rochester if you live in buffalo!!!!!
take care Rich
http://www.winegard.com/offair/images/s2.jpg

Heres a blurb about the new Winegard Sharpshooter in case anyone is interested:

Originally posted by GregHoey
Never thought I'd be annoyed that I couldn't get Fox but . . . . .

Thanks for the feedback gang but chan 14 and/or 29.1 and 29.2 still don't
show up on my 165 either auto scan or manual entry.


Greg

Just so you wont feel alone I cant get it either. I need warmer weather so I can raise the antenna a bit.

Originally posted by BetteH
Just so you wont feel alone I cant get it either. I need warmer weather so I can raise the antenna a bit.

I am a tad south of Rochester, I can get 33-1 and 39-1 in fairly well, but nothing for 29-1. I too am waiting forthe weather so I can put up a rotor and a stronger (cm4228) antenna.

Like some of you, I'm also waiting for the weather to warm a bit to make some modifications to my exisitng setup. I have a question though...

I really want to be able to pick up Rochester and Toronto (when it becomes more readily available) HDTV. I already have a pre-amp ready to get installed, but my current rooftop appears to be only a medium directional type. It does fine for locals, at least when I have it pointed towards the towers. Because 2, 4, and 7 are in Colden, the antenna gets a terrible signal from the back, so no 17, 23, or 29 until I get a rotor. I also seem to suffer from nasty multipath.

My question is, if I put up, say, a Channel Master 4228 with the pre-amp to hopefully achive my long range goals, am I going to overload the locals? Might I be able to pull in the signals from the back a bit better so as to avoid using a rotor? 2,4,7 are 20 miles to the SE and 17,29,23 are 10 miles to the NW.

Heard some rumblings that WNYO-DT chan 34 will be low power testing in the next few weeks. I should get good reception -- I can see the tower from my house.

Also heard some reasonable rumors that our Canadian friends appear to be having a hand in the HD-DT slowness.

Apporx 100 stations on or near the US / Canada border have not gotten full power authorization due, at least in part, to the CRTC -- the Canadian FCC.

Apparently, Canada is worried about OUR HD-DT signals interferring with their as yet largely non-existent HD-DT signals . . . . altho the issues don't seem to be "engineering" problems. In the mix are concerns that Canadians will be seduced away from Canadian TV programming by the Evil Siren Song of AMERICAN Television

Seems a little silly to me but then most AMERICAN TV is pretty crappy. It's not like we're making the world safe for THE BACHELORETTE or MY BIG FAT OBNOXIOUS FIANNCE.

ANYWAY, the net effect is that it's not just the FCC and the stations causing the slowness.

The sense I get is that WUTV-DT-14, WNYO-DT-34, WNLO-DT-32 have got the gear and the towers and are ready to go but have Canadian issues as does WKBW-DT-38.

Frustrating.

Anybody got any other perspective.

Probably they'll all go on at once and we won't know what to look at first.

WNLO-DT and WKBW-DT have got the full authorization from the FCC for full power status. I dont see anything at the FCC website that they plan on low power or have applied for "STA" to operate low power. WNLO-DT will be on air April 1/04 on ch-32 confirmed by the head honcho at WIVB. On the other hand for some reasons unknown WUTV-DT and WNLO-DT as well as WNYB-DT and WNGS-DT could not get full authorization from the FCC to operate at least full power. It may have to do with the Frequency they plan on using. I'm wondering if indeed WNYO-DT got an "STA" to operate as of yet like WUTV-DT did.

Greg, I know for a fact that the the CRTC is stalling WUHF-DT in Rochester over concerns about WUHF's channel 28 signal interfering with channel 28 in Cornwall.

In talking with the engineers from WUTV and WKBW I'm pretty certain that they're good to go as far as the CRTC is concerned.

Thanks for the additional info;

Something else that has confused me;

I have heard conflicting reports about DT chan allocation

ONE -- that the stations keep the new DT chans and give back the old chan

TWO -- that ultimately the stations will broadcast Digital on their ORIGINAL chan
and that the "new" digital chan allocations are temporary -- this is the sense I get is happening. Not sure.

THREE -- some mix of the first two depending on chan frequency.


What up with that?

AND, RE the above -- I'm STILL confused about WUTV; which I STILL can't pick up.

-- is it broadcasting digital on chan 14 . . . but the PSIP makes it show up as
29.1 + 29.2

OR
-- is it broadcasting digital AND analog on chan 29 . . . then what is chan 14

And further, it sounds like the stations have the OPTION of how to set-up their PSIP
ie to link or not to link you to another chan for digital.


Me confused.


Sounds like NOBODY really knows what's going on at the 'ol FCC . . . .

. . . . but boy, were they ever quick to jump all over Janet Jackson.

I wish tthe FCC would be that zealous about helping to make HD happen

. . . . and don't get me started on the ANALOG HOLE that the film studios want the FCC to force closed . . . . screwing us early adopters.


Grrrrrrrrrr Arrrrggggggghh

Apporx 100 stations on or near the US / Canada border have not gotten full power authorization due, at least in part, to the CRTC -- the Canadian FCC.

This occurs for just about all radio signals near the border and it's a process that occurs on both sides. I'm sure the same goes for the US/Mexican border too.

Originally posted by GregHoey
[B]I have heard conflicting reports about DT chan allocation

ONE -- that the stations keep the new DT chans and give back the old chan

TWO -- that ultimately the stations will broadcast Digital on their ORIGINAL chan
and that the "new" digital chan allocations are temporary -- this is the sense I get is happening. Not sure.


As far as I've read, it's up to the channel to decide which route they want to go. First there's the attractiveness of a lower channel number (for stations like Buffalo 2 & 4), but then there's easier reception and all the equipment your viewers have already purchased to pick you up in UHF.


-- is it broadcasting digital on chan 14 . . . but the PSIP makes it show up as
29.1 + 29.2


Yes.


And further, it sounds like the stations have the OPTION of how to set-up their PSIP
ie to link or not to link you to another chan for digital.


This is also true, however the remapping has been known to cause problems with some HDTV receivers if it is not done correctly. I think (no personal experience) that some other Buffalo stations have done it in the past, but stopped.

Because of too many problems with Low Band interference , both WGRZ-DT and WIVB-DT will remain on 33 and 39 permanently. The others may go back to their original allocations, but why bother. Actually the UHF's seem to have better range into Canada at least where I live. I would assume if the issues cant be resolved with regards to full power status, some might go back once their analog stations are turned off . Also in the digital world everything is "Virtual" anyways, so actual channel or frequency doesn't really matter anymore. Ch-4 can continue to call themselves "Channel 4" even though they are actually on ch-39, who cares.

In 2006 if 85% of the viewing population can receive the DTV signal the station needs to give back one of the two frequencies.

Originally posted by garyrox
I am a tad south of Rochester, I can get 33-1 and 39-1 in fairly well, but nothing for 29-1. I too am waiting forthe weather so I can put up a rotor and a stronger (cm4228) antenna.

you would be farther ahead using a winegard long yagi and winegard amp with a rotor. alot of people on these forms tend to think that the 4228 cm 8 bay bowtie is the best their is??? i've been doing antenna work in N.Y. state 22+years and i can tell you what works ad whats best. during some of our commercial install in valley's of the southern tier the bow type antennas simply didnt have enough gain. we usually ended up with a winegard uhf yagi and winegrd uhf amp.
they simply walked over any c.m. stuff. im not saying that c.m. is junk but if you want the best directivity and gain use the winegard. until i get the uhf parabolic dish back on the market their isnt much better. i just sold a guy in greece n.y. a winegrd midsized yagi that he has in his attic and i believe he is getting the buffalos as well !!!! remember. best antenna +amp#1 more height#2 and last but not least line of sight should be clear as possible!!!!!!!!
thanks Rich

Originally posted by rubblerubble
Like some of you, I'm also waiting for the weather to warm a bit to make some modifications to my exisitng setup. I have a question though...

I really want to be able to pick up Rochester and Toronto (when it becomes more readily available) HDTV. I already have a pre-amp ready to get installed, but my current rooftop appears to be only a medium directional type. It does fine for locals, at least when I have it pointed towards the towers. Because 2, 4, and 7 are in Colden, the antenna gets a terrible signal from the back, so no 17, 23, or 29 until I get a rotor. I also seem to suffer from nasty multipath.

My question is, if I put up, say, a Channel Master 4228 with the pre-amp to hopefully achive my long range goals, am I going to overload the locals? Might I be able to pull in the signals from the back a bit better so as to avoid using a rotor? OK first thing is no you cannot expect a 4228 to work off they're back side.the one thing they do have if high front to back ratio. in other words unless you peel the reflector off the antenna your gonna need a rotor if you want Rochester and Canada you'll do better with a long yagi type antenna. or wait around till i get the parabolic uhf antenna back on the market.
Thanks Rich 2,4,7 are 20 miles to the SE and 17,29,23 are 10 miles to the NW.

WUTV is official! They are now listed at TitanTV.com.

Now lets hope WKBW starts testing this week??

Originally posted by rwantennasat


I wonder if a lot of us think that since the 4221 works so well for locals that twice as much will work for distance. The yagi seems too much like what my father used on a long pole and turned with vise grips in the 60's. You are most likely correct on a yagi will be better for me. I will give a winegard yagi lot of consideration before the snow melts.
Thanks

Rich, I was only using the CM 4228 as an example. I have not decided on which antenna I will actually buy until I obtain more facts. Right now, I have a Winegard 8780 pre-amp ready to go when it gets warmer and I will see what it can do with my current rooftop antenna before buying a new one. I am still curious about the propensity for locals overload by installing a high gain antenna in my area, if such a condition exists.

I am located about 8 miles from the transmitter and I am getting a weak signal from WUTV-DT and can only receive a picture if I put my aerial off axis. Maximum signal levels are about 12 to 13 dB.

Man, if you get a weak signal from WUTV-DT and are only 8 miles from the transmitter, you either are in a pit, or something is wrong with your setup. I'm 60 miles as the crow flies and get a very strong signal from them. I'm honestly surprised myself because they are only at 35 KW. Weak digital signals seem to perform much better than weak analog signals which is a bonus.

I'm located approx. 45 miles as the crow flies from the transmitters and I receive a 100% signal strength on all the digital stations from Buffalo. I'm surprised to at the great signal strength from WUTV being they are transmitting at a low power level.

To BLT:

. . . . maybe this is why the CRTC is "concerned" about US stations . . .

Seems like alot of you guys are getting better reception that we are on WUTV

I'm about 45 miles away from the tower as well, but my crow flies Southeast
over hills and valleys and very close to the towers from the other Buffalo stations.

To be sure this is not a Canada rant -- my Mother was born in Canada.

It is however, er, ah IRONIC, that at least ONE of several reasons that WUTV has not gotten full power authorization is the CRTC . . . . of course a major problem is our very own FCC which has not been doing us or the broadcasters any favors in terms of speed or decisiveness.

It is also ironic that it took Janet Jackson's boob to light a fire under those FCC boys
to get them to take a stand on something . . .

. . . . now if only they could get things in perspective.

Finally, I still find it ironic that i CARE about this at all since I watch precisely TWO Fox shows -- 24 and THE SIMPSONS -- but they are good ones.

Any news out there on when WUTV goes full power?

Actually you mention the CRTC as the culprit for the low power issue. Its not the CRTC, its actually Industry Canada in conjunction with the FCC that handles these matters. But I would bet my bottom dollar all the red-tape is coming from the Canadian side of things. I would suspect they are deliberately delaying the issue causing border U.S. stations grief. The FCC should put its foot down over this and start threatening if these issues aren't resolved soon. The Canadian Broadcasters would love to put up a giant electromagnetic wall at the border to block U.S. television signals. We all know WUTV targets Canadians with lots of Canadian advertising which is why they located in Grand Island, same as WNED. I'm sure 50 percent of WUTV's advertising revenues come from Canada. Thats fine with me. I hate the practice of Simsubs on my cable service so having an OTA option is great. So far every Buffalo Digital station that has gone to air so far comes in fantastic at my location. I hope WKBW-DT and WNLO-DT also reach deep into the north country and also WNYO-DT as well. No Canadian operator yet has an HD WB station so far.

TO: New Cable Guy

Thanks for the info.

When I'm in Toronto those SIMSUBS on cable drive me crazy so I sure you guys must hate it.

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
Man, if you get a weak signal from WUTV-DT and are only 8 miles from the transmitter, you either are in a pit, or something is wrong with your setup. I'm 60 miles as the crow flies and get a very strong signal from them. I'm honestly surprised myself because they are only at 35 KW. Weak digital signals seem to perform much better than weak analog signals which is a bonus.

Sure, but do have to deal with the excessive megawatts put out by PBS that overloads weaker stations all up the dial. It might also might be just because they are in "testing" mode maybe once they settle down things will improve.

Well, FINALLY was able to get WUTV-DT to show up on the ol' Samsuing 165 Sunday night 2/15/04.

It was REALLY cold -- maybe that's the reason.

Lots of micro-blocking so I guess they're still low power.

Any news on when they turn the power up?????


. . . . . now if Fox only had some decent shows on . . . .

For all you Buffalo viewers I see that Toronto One is on the air on channel 15 out of Hamilton. Strong signal for me from 40 miles out.

And for the people in Northern Western New York
(Lewiston / Lockport) Toronto One is also on
Ch. 66.1 off the CN Tower. I'm getting a strong
signal in St. Catharines.

Hey guys, thanks for the info on the Canadian signals. I haven't even gotten a blip on my T351, but then again I'm still waiting to get on the roof to get the pre-amp up, and maybe a new antenna. Any WNY'ers try these stations yet? Also, I hear that WKBW might actually start testing TODAY.

Thanks for the heads up.. getting a 37 signal with my Silver Sensor and my E86 for 66-1. Looks like I need to reconnect the roof antenna! :) Gonna keep playing around tho... more HD = good!

Getting a very nice picture at that tho!! :) Sweet..

Plus I read that WUTV is on! Oh my god, I am gonna pass out!! :)

Originally posted by jurassicjockey
For all you Buffalo viewers I see that Toronto One is on the air on channel 15 out of Hamilton. Strong signal for me from 40 miles out.

No signal received for this yet.. are they on 24/7?

I,m getting 100% signal strength on Toronto 1 on channel 15-1 from Hamilton at about 20-25 miles out :)

well im seeing ch 66-1 very clear here in s/e lockport im about a mile from Erie county border. in hamlet of radids the signal on 66 is 1/2to 3/4 scale on my hdv420 I dont see anything on 15 Hamilton?? maybe 14 fox is to strong??? figured id at least see something. im betting thou that 66 is on the C.N.tower.
power out seems good. I also have a 53 that hust breaks my threshold cickin in and out. is this city tv from TO??? Anyhow its alot weaker but in same direction.Im using a 7' parabolic dish with a winegard 19db amp on a 72 ' tower.
anybody interested in some hot antennas e-mail or call me
take care Rich
rwantsat@localnet.com
716-434-9216 shop number!!!

just channel 15 from Fort Erie now, are they protected from the Hamilton 15?

I tried to get 66-1 using my current temporary setup (Radio Shack yagi on push up pole approx 20 ft high, & CM UHF Preamp) but it's just blinking the digital light on my T-165.

I checked CH15 but get some analog station there, no digital.

No can find 53, and yes that is CityTV on CN tower at 600 watts...

I'm in NT 14120.

Wow, I'm surprised that T1 on ch-66 reaches Lockport. I can see the CN Tower from my location about 20 miles as the crow flies and I only get 4 bars on my T151, although my antenna is directed more towards Buffalo. The Buffalo stations come in with way better signal strength at my location northeast of Toronto. I get nothing digital on ch-15, although I get an analog religious station their instead from Grand Island. By the way T1 is only broadcasting at 2.81 Kilowatts. Digital stations seem to have much better range, even at low power.

yup,
almost forgot about tbn on ch 15. they are on the island with a fairly strong
signal. that might be blocking it .but im more prone to believe that fox on 14 would give me more problems. running a parabolic dish does offer the tightest beamwidth of all,so im thinking that 15 in hamilton is pretty weak or they arent running 24/7?? can anybody over that way verify this? inversion will start soon on uhf so alot of you guys will think "hey my antenna isnt that bad" But now is the true test (when conditions are bland)with this nice weather we had today it started me thinkin of all the antenna work i wanna get done too.i have a place cottage on lake ontario,cant wait to get up some good stuff there this summer.
remember if anyone on here needs antenna help,amps,rotors,super low loss cable etc. let me know. i got tons of it.
take care Rich Lockport n.y.
P.S. please put your locationson your posts im interested in knowing where you are when your seeing or not seeing things.

Originally posted by pmb1010
I tried to get 66-1 using my current temporary setup (Radio Shack yagi on push up pole approx 20 ft high, & CM UHF Preamp)

i think you would do better with a winegrd preamp. i just bought out a warehouse full of 4700's and 4800's 19-30 db gain. these are much better for uhf than any of the c.m. models I've tried em all and winegards simply better built amps when it comes to their transistor use. they use super hot transistors with low noise and high outputs.c.m. is still usin stuff from the 70's inside em.????


but it's just blinking the digital light on my T-165.

I checked CH15 but get some analog station there, no digital.

No can find 53, and yes that is CityTV on CN tower at 600 watts...

I'm in NT 14120.

Originally posted by rwantennasat


"a better amp"???

I know I need more antenna gain, not just more amplification of a low signal (and the accompanying noise).

My new setup for spring install:

- VU937SR VHF/UHF antenna, with the optional UHF extension unit.
- Winegard VHF/UHF preamp AP8275
- 150 ft of RG-11 which I'll cut as needed.
- installed on roof tower (hopefully) above ham triband beam about 45 ft off gound. I'll need to tip the roof tower over to install above beam (a hassle) but I can go about 35 ft (install below the beam) and not tip the tower...

Thanks for the heads up fellas, just received my first Canadian station in HD and it's bringing a tear to my eye.

Getting Toronto 1 at a solid 11.7 dB signal strength. Woohoo!!! :D

Where approx. are you located Daredevil?

You tell me yours and I'll tell you mine. :p

So you can't translate GPS coordinates into something useful? How about Niagara Falls, Ontario.

Play nice, daredevil. :cool:

What kind of setup do you have? I'm 23 miles due SE from you, 60 miles as the crow flies to Toronto and I doubt I'll even get a blip on 66, even when I put the pre-amp up later today.

I am located at 43 miles from the CN Tower transmitter, and my setup is an aerial on a 30 foot tower that my neighbor donated to me (thanks neighbor).

The antenna is similar to a Channelmaster and to this aerial I've added a Radio Shack 20/25 dB amplifier (mostly to overcome the 150 foot cable lead length and the splitter I have).

Odd that CityTV @ 0.6kw comes in so much better for me than T1 @ 2.81kw.

Anyone seen any blips on WKBW?

Odd that CityTV @ 0.6kw comes in so much better for me than T1 @ 2.81kw

Maybe because CITY is directional
And CKXT is non-direction.

People on the southern shore of Lake Ontario
are receiving CKXT (Tor 1) without problems.
CITY is very difficult to receive in our location and
not where you live.

With my antenna north, CKXT shows 5-6 bars and CITY zero.

Originally posted by rubblerubble
I'm 23 miles due SE from you, 60 miles as the crow flies to Toronto and I doubt I'll even get a blip on 66, even when I put the pre-amp up later today. [/B]
I've got a vertical stack of Televes with a channel master preamp on top of a 64' tower and I can barely receive CITY at 55 miles. They really need to boost their power

Regarding City-DT from a CRTC decision:

As proposed, the undertaking would operate from the CN Tower on channel 53C with a directional antenna and maximum ERP of 980 watts (average ERP of 600 watts), and with an effective antenna height above average terrain (EHAAT) of 515 metres. These proposed technical parameters would result in an ERP of less than half the maximum permitted by the Department of Industry (the Department). As a consequence, the digital service area would be significantly smaller than the current analog service area of CITY-TV. Moreover, at the proposed ERP level, the digital service area would be further reduced by interference from other stations.

14.
In the transitional digital TV policy, the Commission encouraged broadcasters to construct their digital facilities in a manner that would produce coverage that matches their current analog coverage, within the constraints of the Department’s allotment plan. The fact that the digital service area proposed by CHUM would fall short of that produced by CITY-TV’s existing analog transmitter is at odds with the Commission’s policy.

15.
In response to questions as to why CHUM had applied for a channel that would be subject to interference, CHUM advised that it had requested the Department to change the channel designated for the proposed undertaking under the DTV allotment plan from channel 66C to 53C because of its concern that channels 60 to 69 might be reallocated to other services. Moreover, CHUM submitted that its existing antenna could accommodate channel 53, but not channel 66.

16.
The Commission notes that, during the analog-to-digital transition period, the Department would allow a maximum ERP for this channel of 2,200 watts at the EHAAT of 515 metres. These parameters would mitigate some of the interference limitations and provide a service that more closely approximates the existing analog service of CITY-TV Toronto. The Commission further notes, based on CHUM’s own estimates, that there would be a cost of $92,400 associated with increasing the ERP to the maximum level allowed by the Department during the transition period.

17.
This is the first licence application for a transitional digital television undertaking to be considered by the Commission. It involves a prominent service in the largest market in the country. In the Commission’s view, it is important that this undertaking provide signal coverage that approximates, as closely as possible, that of the existing analog service and that it offer the best possible signal quality, in keeping with the transitional digital TV policy.

18.
At the same time, the Commission does not wish to discourage CHUM’s early adoption and transition to digital over-the-air transmission by imposing an immediate requirement on this applicant to achieve the optimum ERP level. For all of these reasons, by condition of licence, the Commission requires the licensee, within one year of the date that its new digital television undertaking commences operations, to file an application to increase the undertaking’s ERP to the maximum level permitted by the Department.

I noticed on Antenna Web that channel 7 has an FCC extension again. I e-mailed the station manager to see if he could tell me what was going on again. Will they ever get on the air or what:confused:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pmb1010
[B]"a better amp"???

I know I need more antenna gain, not just more amplification of a low signal (and the accompanying noise).

My new setup for spring install:

- VU937SR VHF/UHF antenna, with the optional UHF extension unit.
- Winegard VHF/UHF preamp AP8275
- 150 ft of RG-11 which I'll cut as needed.
- installed on roof tower (hopefully) above ham triband beam about 45 ft off gound. I'll need to tip the roof tower over to install above beam (a hassle) but I can go about 35 ft (install below the beam) and not tip the tower...

Well the old saying is the higher the better. especially with uhf. of course if your a ham you allready know that.the triband beam may cause a little interaction on the vhf side. I would put it at the top. keep the beam belowa good 10 ft. the delhi antenna your looking at is a good choice and the powr zoom extender for uhf does actually help. Im a big believer in running seperate antennas for vhf/uhf but if your in a limited space situation the thats a good choice. I install alot of delhi stuff ,have for years. B.T.W. i have apx 10,000 ft of commscope and belden rg-11u foiland heavy shield to 2 ghz cable and i sell it very cheap. if ya need some for the project let me know.
do you have the antenna yet? I by directly from delhi/wade antenna and can get real good prices on them. Good luck Let me know
Rich In Rapids(s.Lockport)

The info at antenna web is inaccurate. First of all WKBW should be up soon. It also says WNYB is awaiting a permit, well they have a permit already according to the FCC website, and WNYO also has an STA to operate.

New Cable Guy:

Thanks for the info. I thought it was strange for them to have a FCC extension again as their station manager said they would begin testing the week of the 22nd of Feb.

Well, it's the 24th... any news on WKBW, or when WUTV will switch from color bars to a more entertaining form of testing? :-)

Here's a post I made on www.rochesterhdtv.com regarding WKBW...

"Also, I have heard from a semi-reputable source that WKBW is going to drag this out until the actual extension deadline because of the costs of running OTA DTV. Yeah, my already negative attitude towards them has gotten worse."

So essentially, they would rather save some cash than embrace the new technology. Amazing. Even freakin' WUTV, A FOX AFFILIATE, has their signal up before WKBW.

WUTV, A FOX AFFILIATE, has their signal up before WKBW

And an excellent signal too! Even at low power.
I know the signal is not HD yet, but their signal
is very reliable.

I really need some help here. I guess I could’ve posted a separate thread for this, but since you Buffalo people are familiar with the stations and conditions, I thought I should try here first. I still consider myself to be somewhat of a newbie, so bear with me, and thank you in advance.

Okay, so this house I’m in had an antenna on the roof, chimney mount. I’m 1 mile NW of the airport in the Maryvale area. Here are some pics of the antenna.

antenna1 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/antenna1.JPG)
antenna2 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/antenna2.JPG)

Based on the pics, it looks like a Radio Shack VU-120 XR, although it certainly is not 120” in boom length (at least not from the naked eye, more like 70-90”). It’s mounted about 4 feet from the top of the chimney, a total of 25-30 feet off the ground. It does have a single coax connection (RG6) running down into the house, then to the TV/STB (approx. 100ft). No rotor yet.

I’m trying to get good, solid signals for both analog and DTV. I’m 60 miles as-the-crow-flies to Rochester, Toronto, and Hamilton. 87 miles to Erie. Prior to playing around with a new pre-amp, I was able to get most of my locals in DTV, when I was pointed towards Colden. However, PBS and FOX were always breaking up unless I went on the roof and pointed the antenna towards Grand Island. Of course, then I’d lose CBS and NBC to breakups. I’ve noticed the UHF analogs suffered from general interference, which alarms me.

So, while the snow fell, I bought a Winegard 8780 pre-amp (17db VHF, 28 db UHF). I also had a cheap RCA set-top antenna. Just to experiment, I put the RCA antenna on the second floor, connected the pre-amp, ran a 100ft RG6 connection, and tried it out. I was able to get…
2,4,7, 17, 29, 49, and 51 analog almost perfect! I also got 55 (Global55, Niagara Falls), 56 (MTV2, the old BOX), 12 (WICU, Erie), amongst others, with watchable clarity.

So now I’m thinking, “GREAT! Just wait until I get that pre-amp on the roof!” Well, last Friday, installed the pre-amp on the mast. Checked out the signals and to my dismay, it’s terrible. I turned the antenna towards Toronto with the hopes of getting better analog reception, plus a shot at Toronto 1, 66. 2, 4, and 7 analog come in perfect no matter where pointed. However, DTV signals must be suffering from amplified interference because they break-up despite a strong signal. Even pointed towards the Toronto, Grand Island way, PBS DTV breaks up. Here is a breakdown and pics of what I’m seeing (keep in mind, antenna pointed towards Toronto)…

5 analog – strong picture, but diagonal lines fade in and out. Quite watchable. CBC 5 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/cbc5.JPG)
9 analog – strong picture, but more diagonal lines. Somewhat watchable. CTV 9 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/ctv9.JPG)
11 analog – picture there, but look at that interference. CHCH 11 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/chch11.JPG)
17 analog – strong picture, interference from channel 23. PBS 17 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/pbs17.JPG)
23 analog – strong picture, but strong interference from 17. UPN 23 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/upn23.JPG)
29 analog – same as above, but stronger interference from 17. FOX 29 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/fox29.JPG)
41 and 47 – seems like a picture could be there, but way too much interference from somewhere, probably 17 and/or 23. GLOBAL 41 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/global41.JPG) OMNI 47 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/omni47.JPG)

In fact, channel 17 seems to interfere with just about everything in the UHF band. It even presents itself all distorted on analog frequencies such as 32 and 34, which, will be DTV here soon.

My questions are…

1) Is this multipath or interference? I don’t have any tall buildings, or trees within 50 feet. Some trees scattered after that 50 feet, but all of the houses are the same height.

2) Is this the antenna? Could it be too old and run down? Is it letting in interference? The connections seem okay, but I may take it down to examine them when it gets warmer.

3) Is the pre-amp OVER-amplifying the signals? If so, then how would I be able to pull in Toronto, Rochester, or Hamilton while reducing the locals so they won’t conflict?

4) Would a new Winegard or Channel Master (near fringe – fringe) accomplish my goals, eliminate the interference if it’s not the current antenna’s problem?

I know, there’s a lot to read here, but any help is critical right now. Obviously, pulling in the DTV is paramount to analog, so I’d be satisfied at eliminating VHF entirely and getting a good yagi for UHF.

Once again, thank you in advance.

It sounds to me like an over amplification problem. Try setting up the antenna without the pre-amp for now. It could also be a flaky or noisy pre-amp causing you trouble. Try aiming at Toronto without the pre-amp and the shortest lead possible and see if you receive 66. As you know, others on this thread in Lockport can receive it.

I added a variable attenuator (RS- 15-678) inline and it has helped me dial in signal strength from time to time.

sprocto4, does it reduce overall signal strength for all channels (as opposed to being frequency specific) based on your setting, or does it simply implement a cut-off point for maximum DB across the board? Pardon my ignorance, I've just never used equipment like this before. Also, where should you put it on the line; after the pre-amp or between the pre-amp and power supply?

I believe it reduces over the entire TV band but I am no expert. Some stations seem to be more stable with less signal. On some of the Rochester stations for example, the peak signal level on the receiver is somewhere between 0% and 100% of the dial on the attenuation. I think it has something to do with the negative affect of raising the noise floor to a point of reducing to effective signal to noise ratio, but that's a guess. I have it installed between the pre-amp power supply and the HD receiver.

Thanks sprocto4. I will look into trying one out. At least if it doesn't help the problem, I can return it.

Can anyone else shed some light upon my dilemma? Oh, and still no WKBW!

Originally posted by rubblerubble
Can anyone else shed some light upon my dilemma? Oh, and still no WKBW!

Possibly the fact that the Buffalo Airport is practically a next door neighbor? (I'm speculating)


Bill

When the flight patterns are a certain way, some of the distortion caused by the planes is only temporary. The interference you see in those pics is constant. So, unless there are constant transmissions/disturbances coming from the airport, I'm not sure it plays a huge role. I'm just speculating too.

I don't think multipath from the planes would be an issue. More likely interference from the antenna farm, or radar, or possibly the nav aids if they're located close to you. I agree with NCG, sounds like you should reduce the amplification, possibly look at a more directional antenna so that you can try and isolate where the problem is coming from.

JJ, that's what I'm going to focus on. I'll try a variable attenuator so I can slowly bring down the signal strength to hopefully a point where all the stations can be happy. I don't think it would hurt to get a new antenna too. If this doesn't help, perhaps I'll look at a pre-amp under 20 db, perhaps the Winegard 8700.

Thankfully it will be warm this weekend. I don't think my neighbors even look twice anymore when they see me on the roof!

Thankfully it will be warm this weekend. I don't think my neighbors even look twice anymore when they see me on the roof!


Isn't it fun being the neighbourhood eccentric. :D I know I've given my neighbours lots of entertainment over the last 10 years.

Anyone here actually FALL off the roof working on your antenna system? At least there will still be some snow on the ground to cushion the impact just in case.

Those pics of those stations are definately overload to the preamp without question!
I would put the preamp/amp INSIDE where you can get at it even though it means loosing a little signal in the downlead (maybe 1 db).
Then you have access to it for installing attenuators or better yet channel filters to decrease the offending stations signal.

videobruce, thanks for the resounding answer! I appreciate everyone's input again. Now that I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do, it's just a matter of time before I'm cool as all of you!

I have a HUGE (nothing to do with the car dealer on Grand Island though that is where the problem is) problem with the 3 'U's" over in the 'foreign' country called Grand Island. Being 5 miles away and trying to pull in stations from 65 miles away in line with them is tough especially with a amp. I had the same problem with the overload you had untill I installed tunable traps for those channels. The onlt problem is they are expensive (the ones I have aren't made anymore) and are very hard to tune without the proper equipment. Youi can do it by watching the station, you need at least a SLM (signal level meter).

I've heard some rumors that ABC network recently changed the encoding format
on its HD satellite feed to the affiliates and that most of the affiliates are waiting
on ABC to get them new satellite receivers.

This suggests that only the ABC owned stations are HD now . . . is that possible?

This also suggests that WKBW will HAVE a HIGH DEF channel but no HD CONTENT
from ABC for a while.

Has anyone else heard anything.

This seems nuts -- what the heck was ABC thinking at this late date in the HD game??

Hi Greg,

Rochester's ABC WOKR and Syracuse's ABC WIXT are both owned by Clear Channel, not ABC and both have HD channels on WOKR-DT and WIXT-DT.

I've talked to the WKBW chief engineer and they will have HD and it will be soon.

http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/viewtopic.php?t=55

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rubblerubble
[B]I really need some help here. I guess I could’ve posted a separate thread for this, but since you Buffalo people are familiar with the stations and conditions, I thought I should try here first. I still consider myself to be somewhat of a newbie, so bear with me, and thank you in advance.

Okay, so this house I’m in had an antenna on the roof, chimney mount. I’m 1 mile NW of the airport in the Maryvale area. Here are some pics of the antenna.

antenna1 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/antenna1.JPG)
antenna2 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/antenna2.JPG)

Based on the pics, it looks like a Radio Shack VU-120 XR, although it certainly is not 120” in boom length (at least not from the naked eye, more like 70-90”). It’s mounted about 4 feet from the top of the chimney, a total of 25-30 feet off the ground. It does have a single coax connection (RG6) running down into the house, then to the TV/STB (approx. 100ft). No rotor yet.

I’m trying to get good, solid signals for both analog and DTV. I’m 60 miles as-the-crow-flies to Rochester, Toronto, and Hamilton. 87 miles to Erie. Prior to playing around with a new pre-amp, I was able to get most of my locals in DTV, when I was pointed towards Colden. However, PBS and FOX were always breaking up unless I went on the roof and pointed the antenna towards Grand Island. Of course, then I’d lose CBS and NBC to breakups. I’ve noticed the UHF analogs suffered from general interference, which alarms me.

So, while the snow fell, I bought a Winegard 8780 pre-amp (17db VHF, 28 db UHF). I also had a cheap RCA set-top antenna. Just to experiment, I put the RCA antenna on the second floor, connected the pre-amp, ran a 100ft RG6 connection, and tried it out. I was able to get…
2,4,7, 17, 29, 49, and 51 analog almost perfect! I also got 55 (Global55, Niagara Falls), 56 (MTV2, the old BOX), 12 (WICU, Erie), amongst others, with watchable clarity.

So now I’m thinking, “GREAT! Just wait until I get that pre-amp on the roof!” Well, last Friday, installed the pre-amp on the mast. Checked out the signals and to my dismay, it’s terrible. I turned the antenna towards Toronto with the hopes of getting better analog reception, plus a shot at Toronto 1, 66. 2, 4, and 7 analog come in perfect no matter where pointed. However, DTV signals must be suffering from amplified interference because they break-up despite a strong signal. Even pointed towards the Toronto, Grand Island way, PBS DTV breaks up. Here is a breakdown and pics of what I’m seeing (keep in mind, antenna pointed towards Toronto)…

5 analog – strong picture, but diagonal lines fade in and out. Quite watchable. CBC 5 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/cbc5.JPG)
9 analog – strong picture, but more diagonal lines. Somewhat watchable. CTV 9 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/ctv9.JPG)
11 analog – picture there, but look at that interference. CHCH 11 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/chch11.JPG)
17 analog – strong picture, interference from channel 23. PBS 17 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/pbs17.JPG)
23 analog – strong picture, but strong interference from 17. UPN 23 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/upn23.JPG)
29 analog – same as above, but stronger interference from 17. FOX 29 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/fox29.JPG)
41 and 47 – seems like a picture could be there, but way too much interference from somewhere, probably 17 and/or 23. GLOBAL 41 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/global41.JPG) OMNI 47 (http://s93336048.onlinehome.us/images/tv/omni47.JPG)

In fact, channel 17 seems to interfere with just about everything in the UHF band. It even presents itself all distorted on analog frequencies such as 32 and 34, which, will be DTV here soon.

My questions are…

1) Is this multipath or interference? I don’t have any tall buildings, or trees within 50 feet. Some trees scattered after that 50 feet, but all of the houses are the same height.

2) Is this the antenna? Could it be too old and run down? Is it letting in interference? The connections seem okay, but I may take it down to examine them when it gets warmer.

3) Is the pre-amp OVER-amplifying the signals? If so, then how would I be able to pull in Toronto, Rochester, or Hamilton while reducing the locals so they won’t conflict?

4) Would a new Winegard or Channel Master (near fringe – fringe) accomplish my goals, eliminate the interference if it’s not the current antenna’s problem?

I know, there’s a lot to read here, but any help is critical right now. Obviously, pulling in the DTV is paramount to analog, so I’d be satisfied at eliminating VHF entirely and getting a good yagi for UHF.

OK WELL WITH MY 22+YEARS IN ANTENNAS I CAN TELL YOU THIS. YOUR ANALOG UHF CHS ARE ALL BEING OVERLOADED BY THE STRONGEST ONE ON THE ISLAND CH 17. YOU ALSO HAVE ALL THE REST 29/15/23 MIXING AND OVERLOADING THE AMP. YOUR NOT GOING TO GET 60 MILES WITH THAT SETUP W/O PROBLEMS.FIRST OF ALL THAT AMP HAS VERY LOW INPUT. IN OTHER WORDS IT WILL OVERLOAD BADLY. YOU WOULD BE BETTER WITH A 17OR 19 DB GAIN ON UHF IN YOUR AREA.IM IN LOCKPORT AND THE ISLAND IS 6 MILES WSW OF ME I HAVE A WINEGARD AC-4990 17.5 DB GAIN ON A 7' PARABOLIC ON A 72' TOWER. I GET NO OVERLOAD ON DIGITAL ,BUT I DO GET OVERLOAD ON ANALOG IF LOOKING AT THEM. I CAN HOWEVER WATCH ERIE PA DIGITALS AND ANALOGS BY LOOKING AROUND THE ISLAND.
YOUR VHF PROBLEMS ON ANALOG LOOK TO ME LIKE CABLE TV BLEEDING INTO YOUR ANTENNA.
DID YOU HAVE THAT W/O THE AMP? OR COULD YOU NOT SEE 5-9-11 W/O? SOMETIMES THE V/U AMPS WILL OVERLOAD SO BAD YOU'LL BLEED INTO VHF BUT NOT VERY OFTEN.
BEING YOUR N/W OF THE AIRPORT I DONT THINK ITS COMMING FROM THERE. BESIDES I HAVE ANTENNAS ON HOMES UP THERE THAT LOOK RIGHT THRU THE AIRPORT AND GET 9+11 GREAT CH 5 A BIT LESS(THEY ARE LOWER POWER) THEY ALSO GET 41+47 19/25
YOU REALLY NEED A ROTOR BAD!!!!THE DTV OUTTA TORONTO IS GONNA BE TUFF FOR YOU GUYS. UNLESS YOU WANNA INSTALL A PARABOLIC UHF ANTENNA DONT EXPECT IT.
YOU MIGHT GET IT IF YOU INSTALL A LONG WINEGARD YAGI AND A LOWER GAIN WINEGARD AMP ON GOOD NIGHTS. ANYHOW YOU DEFINITLY NEED 3 THINGS. #1 A ROTOR #2 AN AMP WITH NO MORE THAN 17-19 DB GAIN ON UHF #3 A BETTER ANTENNA OR EVEN BETTER SEPERATE VHF/UHF ANTENNAS. THE R.S. HAS NO DIRECTIVITY WORTH A DAM SO YOU NEED AN ANTENNA THAT LOOKS TIGHT AT THE STATION. PARABOLICS ARE BEST. BIG ASS YAGI'S ARE 2ND. IF YOU NEED MORE HELP PLANNING THIS THING E-MAIL ME I SELL THIS STUFF CHEAP AND HAVE TONS OF IT. IF YA WANNA SEE WHAT I RUN YOUR WELCOME TO STOP AT MY SHOP IN LOCKPORT AND SEE. ON THE HOUSE I HAVE A MODIFIED WINEGARD PROSTAR YAGI +AMP ITS 170" LONG WAS 100" I EXTENDED IT.ALSO THE HIGHER THE BETTER FOR UHF ANTENNAS . VHF TOO. YOU MAY DO WELL WITH UHF BUT YOUR DEFENITLY GETTIN SOME VHF INTERMIXING AND THAT LOOKS TYPICAL OF CABLE LEAKING. DO NOT USE THAT ATTENUATOR UNLESS YOUR PUTTING IT BETWEEN THE AMP AND ANTENNA. DO NOT PUT IT IN SIDE OR BETWEEN THE AMP+POWER SUPPLY OR YOU'LL BLOW THE POWER SUPPLY. THEY DONT PASS VOLTAGE. THE SIGNALS ARE OVERLOADING THE PREAMP AT THE ANTENNA.YA COULD TRY PUTTING THE AMP IN THE HOUSE. THIS WILL LOWER THE GAIN USAGE AND ADD ALOT OF NOISE. BUT,IT MIGHT LOOK BETTER FOR A QUICK FIX. ANYHOW I HOPE I HELPED. IF YA WANNA CHAT YOU CAN E-MAIL ME CALL ME ON THE PHONE OR STOP BY FOR SOME IDEAS.
TAKE CARE GOOD LUCK.
RICH LOCKPORT 434-9216 RWANTSAT@LOCALNET.COM

Hey Rich.........stop shouting!!

(turn off that damn 'caps lock' button)

Hey Rich, I may just stop by your store in the coming weeks. I think maybe a Winegard yagi is what I might go with. Of course, that extra 12-14 miles to Toronto that I have to cover in Cheek. really drops the already weak DTV 66 signal. I may just have to wait for them to increase signal strength someday.

Attenuator was a no-go. Brought down the antenna today and checked the connections. All looks okay, although it definitely is that damn Radio Shack. I took off the pre-amp (anyone looking to buy a Winegard 8780 cheap?) and 5/9/11 are slightly worse off, but my UHF is back without overload. Once I figure out where I'm going to drill some holes, the rotor goes up next.

The input from all of you has been great so far. We've got a great DTV community here.

Originally posted by rubblerubble
Brought down the antenna today and ....

Must be nice, I still have a foot of snow on my roof - no antenna work for me :(

Originally posted by rubblerubble
Hey Rich, I may just stop by your store in the coming weeks. I think maybe a Winegard yagi is what I might go with. Of course, that extra 12-14 miles to Toronto that I have to cover in Cheek. really drops the already weak DTV 66 signal. I may just have to wait for them to increase signal strength someday.

Attenuator was a no-go. Brought down the antenna today and checked the connections. All looks okay, although it definitely is that damn Radio Shack. I took off the pre-amp (anyone looking to buy a Winegard 8780 cheap?) and 5/9/11 are slightly worse off, but my UHF is back without overload. Once I figure out where I'm going to drill some holes, the rotor goes up next.

The input from all of you has been great so far. We've got a great DTV community here.

hey if ya comedown bring your winegard amp i might be able to give you some trade in value on a lower gain uhf version.
if ya need rotors i have them too both remote controlled and standard. i also have rotor wire. I have some used winegard yagis i had on a commercial project i had going id sell really cheap.still real good shape.
call me first at the shop 434-9216
Sorry about all the yelling didnt even realize i wa doing it!!!!
Rich.
B.t.W. Tornoto dtv were in this evening as well as erie pa and Rochester.
Warmer weather caused a little tropo inversion

Anybody get any test patterns from KB yet?

BTW - I can vouch for Rich W - he' s helped me with my sytem - Rich - I have not been able to see anything out of Toronto yet - the damn tree's still are affecting my reception too - but raising the antenna did help!

Dan

Tornoto dtv were in this evening as well as erie pa

Rich,

What digital channels did you pick up from Erie?

I got Toronto and Rochester last but no Erie.

Any folks in Buffalo area picking up Toronto1 on channel 15 out of Hamilton. I'm just curious if they're using something directional for transmitting since I pick them up at 80% strenth on average from 45 miles to the NW

Originally posted by dsspredator
Rich,

What digital channels did you pick up from Erie?

Erie channels watched:
22 fox 66
50 pbs 54
52 nbc 12
58 abc 24

didn't check to the east. im sure Roch + Syracuse were in

I got Toronto and Rochester last but no Erie.

Originally posted by dzt41j
Anybody get any test patterns from KB yet?

BTW - I can vouch for Rich W - he' s helped me with my sytem - Rich - I have not been able to see anything out of Toronto yet - the damn tree's still are affecting my reception too - but raising the antenna did help!

Dan thanks for the roses!!!!! Yea Toronto is a tuffy even with a 72' tower and a 7' parabolic. sometimes i dont even get them i imagine as they increase power levels it will help. Funny ch 66 toronto 1 ch52 was initally very strong then the signal dropped a bit. Now seems like City on 53 is stronger???
My suggestion for you is to get a flame thrower and do a 360 out from your house to about a 1/4 mile............lol. Neighbors probably wont like ya thou.
I may have a 5' parabolic available soon. that might help alot.
Rich

Dan

Now that WKBW is apparently testing color bars on 7.1 and 7.2 (very sporadic, mind you), I just had a thought / question.

Does anyone know if WNY will have any need for a VHF antenna after 2007? I mean, I've read some articles saying that some stations around the country may revert back to their VHF frequency, but what does that mean for us in WNY? How have you prepared? Are you banking on UHF only? Do you have any insider info on what our stations might do?

My dish 6000 receiver has always mapped channel 29 digital as 29-1 and 29-2. Now all of a sudden it's mapping only one channel as 14-1. Does this mean they are no longer using the hd subchannel with color bars, or is this a problem with the way the 6000 is operating? Channel 7 is mapping as 7-1 with color bars and 7-2 with regular programming. I wish everyone would get on the same page as far as mapping is concerned. I can't keep up with what digital channel number to look for when tuning in the locals. Is this a problem with my Dish receiver or a problem with the way the stations are broadcasting information?

The engineer at WUTV said they would stop doing bars on 29.1
at some point . . . it would seem they have stopped.

Last night I had to clear 29.1 out of the memory of my Samsung SIR-T 165
cuz it keep searching for an image on 29.1 . . . most annoying.

and YES, I wish the broadcasters would all get their PSIP / mapping issues together.

and WHERE is WKBW?????

Channel 7 is mapping as 7-1 with color bars and 7-2 with regular programming.

Where did it go. I get no signal.
Is WKBW low power right now or off-air.