It appears they are only testing. The transmitter is being turned on/off, nothing now in the early evening. I left my Receiver on all day on ch-38 and sure enough it mapped in as ch7-1 and 7-2, so I know i'm able to receive it at my location.

Yes!! WKBW is testing and they are what people are saying "going in and out".
7-1 I get colored bars and Dolby Digital 2.0 audio.
7-2 Is EDTV.
This happen at 12:00pm. I'm getting a very good signal with no drop outs.

Hope we can get Stephen Kings Mini-series next week in HD

I'm getting 9 bars on my Samsung Reciever in the Stouffville, Ontario area.
Hopefully they will be fulltime soon with HD. No dropouts at my location either.

Hmmmm,

Thanks forthe timely tip, "stjefrey"

Alas, no WKBW-DT at 12;30 PM here, 6 miles from their transmitter.

I'll leave the receiver on chan 38 all day and see what happens

I just noticed my reciever suddenly remapped WKBW-DT to 38-1 and 38-2.
I'm wondering what they are doing??

GregHoey,

They keep going in and out. Keep checking. 1:10pm

New Cable Guy,

Your right! I'm now getting them on 38-1 and 38-2

So far here in Niagara Falls ON, I'm only getting about 9 dB for WKBW-HD.

Turn up the juice.

Sorry if I jump a little off topic here, but for fellow GTA folk-where are you getting your STBs from?
Being located at College/Landsdowne what type of antenna would i need.
feel free to p.m. if this is too O.T.
Thanks!

Hey, 9db is just fine. You should be able to recieve a picture with a signal as low as -18db. The FCC website says WKBW-DT has an STA to broadcast around approx. 350KW for now which is roughly half-power. WUTV-DT is only broadcasting at 35KW and they come in great. Digital signals seem to be way more efficient than analog ever was. An analog signal at -18db would look pretty snowy.

For digital television a solid 10 dB or better (at least for my FusionHDTV card) is usually necessary to receive a picture.

I just manually entered channel 38 into my Sat HD-200 and it found 38.1 & 38.2.
38.1 was color bars & 38.2 was WKBW.
The signal meter is almost maxed out.
I'm in Hilton,N.Y. which is a good 60 miles away so they must have the power up pretty good.

They are at approx. 350KWatts. I think line of sight makes a big difference too. If you are in a valley, you may have difficulties even if you are close. I'm at 90 miles from WKBW's transmitter on high ground and get a strong signal. I've even tried attenuating the signal to -18db and thats the threshold.

Thanks for the tio,

My SIR T-165 finally locked up on 38.1 and 38.2 . . . just in time to catch the end of the news and the beginning of one of their incessant and annoying infomercials.

The digital image seemed at bit soft to me relative to their analog signal.
It also seemed kind of "mid rangey" IE no real white or no real black and low chroma . . .


Anybody else notcie this?

Is WKBW still just testing or
am I not able to pick up their signal?

I just checked and I get no signal now.
Had a very strong signal earlier so they must still be checking things out.

I've noticed they are only broadcasting from around 9am-3pm approximately. Nothing in the evening. I guess they are testing. I agree the SD channel is kind of soft and washed out a little. They need to do some tweaking, lets give them time. Hey, at least they finally got to air. I hope they air some HD content soon. I've also noticed they keep switching their channel maps from 7-1 and 7-2 to 38-1 and 38-2 back and forth. I wish they'd make up their minds.

Sorry if this is the wrong place, but did WIVB just change something in the last two or three days? I've been getting them all winter on 4.1, and about two or three days ago, I noticed that they are back on 39.1 again. My questions are...

1. Is anyone else seeing this?

2. What causes it to change every so often? Does the station cause it?

3. Is there anything we should do?

Thanks in advance,

Ron

Thats strange, I've always received them on 39.1, never on 4.1?

I,ve always received them on both 39.1 and 4.1 until about 2 months ago. Then it was only 4.1 but as of a couple of days ago I,m receiving them on both again.

I've had the same experience as New Cable Guy, only on 39.1.

Only 39.1 for me.

Originally posted by RIppolito
Sorry if this is the wrong place, but did WIVB just change something in the last two or three days? I've been getting them all winter on 4.1, and about two or three days ago, I noticed that they are back on 39.1 again. My questions are...

1. Is anyone else seeing this?

2. What causes it to change every so often? Does the station cause it?

3. Is there anything we should do?

Thanks in advance,

Ron

1) Same thing happened to me, and not the first time.

2)Somebody?? is remapping them

3):D Yes, if the channel doesn't tune in on 4.1 then it remapped itself to 39.1 and visa versa.

Bill

The first month or so they were online it showed up as 39.1. Ever since it has been mapped to 4-1 for me.

Right now I am watching ABC on 39.3.

What is going on???????????????

Is WKBW having 'big time' problems?

Aha, another WKBW "tip"

Yeah, what up with ABC SPORTS on WNLO-DT 39.3 . . . . ABC sports but with
WNLO station ID's.

I didn't even know that 39.3 was back on the air -- maybe THAT's why WIVB's
HD has been suffering from bouts of micro blocking again of late.

Hey, WIVB was better without the sub chans !!!!! Why screw it up now?

Perhaps WNLO "volunteered" to run ABC's basketball game since WKBW was airing it's well-intentioned yet tedious telathon.

I would bet big money that we WON'T be watching ALIAS on WNLO - 39.3 tonight and likely not on WKBW 38.2 either for that matter.

AND, the ABC singal on WNLO 39.3 lookes better than the ABC signal I was seeing on WKBW 38.2 . . . . AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???????


Yeah, so what IS the deal and / or connection. I know that WIVB and WNLO have the same ownership and that the FOX and WB stations have the same ownership . .

but WHAT is the connection between WNLO and WIVB and WKBW ?

. . ., . or are these guys just messin' with us.

Anybody got any ideas???

Maybe WNLO offered to pick up the ABC game because WKBW couldn't air it because of the telethon. I think that was a smart idea. At least the game gets aired in Buffalo, since most of you guys dont have access to secondary ABC affiliates like we do on cable north of the border. We can switch to KOMO or WXYZ to get the game. Anyways, I'm hoping WKBW-DT goes on air fulltime tomorrow, instead of this 9-3pm business on weekdays.
I've also noticed that WUTV-SD on 29-2 seems to have increased their bit-rate for NASCAR. The PQ looked really good, although not EDTV yet.

New Cable Guy is right, WNLO did pick up the games because of the telethon.

Well, tonight WGRZ-NBC got the HD right and WIVB-CBS did not --
all NBC HD all night looked quite good and CBS was in SD all night

Not only was COLD CASE in 4x3 STANDARD DEF but the picture cut out twice
creating a very loud electrical arcing in my NEC 10 PG -- I was NOT thrilled.

So, was this another case of a sporting event somewhere throwing off the CBS network feed ?

And does anybod have an idea why the picture disappering would cause an arc
in a CRT????

Sounds as it was more a local problem...............

This actually started last week.

Every time WIVB came out of SD commercials on HD shows you could hear a fairly loud pop as the HD kicked in again.

Then last night just as cold case was starting there was a very loud click from the sound system but the HD didn't start. Just a black screen for a bit and then 4:3 for the rest of the night.

It 4:23 right now and WKBW is still broadcasting on 38.
Does this mean they are on the air 'officially' now?

5:55pm I'm not getting a thing for wkbw.

Originally posted by pmb1010
5:55pm I'm not getting a thing for wkbw.

Ditto. Actually, it's 6:35 PM.:rolleyes:

Bill

So what's up with WIVB? I finally got what I needed to get a good lock on their signal from Rochester, but there seems to be no HD content. I was finally looking forward to some CBS HD programming, but there was nothing on Sunday, and so far nothing tonight. Arrgh! What a waste of time.

--Todd

Todd, I'm seeing the same thing from WIVB. :( I don't think I can even look at CSI in SD...

Someones been asleep at the wheel all night apparently. Pretty aggravating to say the least.

The ONLY way I'd watch a CSI rerun is if it was in HDTV... and of course it was not. :-)

Originally posted by Mr. Biggles
Someones been asleep at the wheel all night apparently. Pretty aggravating to say the least.

Bill,
let us know how your Voom install goes.
I'm so teetering on the fence on this...

PMB

I think they're having technical issues with HD at WIVB. The other night everytime they tried to switch to the CBS HD feed, it was nothing more than a blank screen with audio, and then it switched back to SD. I think they may need to replace something, thats why they're only showing SD right now. That station has had lots of ongoing issues, scratchy audio on the SD channel, freeze-up and pixelation on certain shows, and now no HD. Oh well. WGRZ-Dt on the other hand never has trouble locally. I receive them at 8 bars usually, and they are always 99.9 percent reliable.

Bill,
let us know how your Voom install goes.
I'm so teetering on the fence on this...

PMB

Will do. Thursday is the day if all go's according to schedule. V* has great potential, so worth giving it a shot. (no obligation helps).


I think they're having technical issues with HD at WIVB

Thats an understatement. Anyone have any 'insider info' from WIVB of what the heck is going on?


Bill

WKBW!!!

I'm now getting a picture and sound! Time is 4:00pm.

My receiver states that it's HDTV.

I hope they keep in up so I can watch Stephen King tonight!

WKBW is re-mapping again to 7-1 and 7-2.

They are also stretching the 4:3 picture into 16:9.
The 4 pm news sure is funny looking.

As for signal, I am receiving 6 bars in St. Catharines, ON
on a Samsung 151.

Originally posted by stjefrey
WKBW!!!

I'm now getting a picture and sound! Time is 4:00pm.

My receiver states that it's HDTV.

I hope they keep in up so I can watch Stephen King tonight!

BUMMER!

They are no longer up, no signal. 5:00pm

WIVB is fixed.....rejoice. HD is back!

Re: whether you'll need a VHF antenna for WNY digital TV in the long run, I know of no announcements. Probably the stations will see which channel gets them better coverage and go with that.
Here's an article with lots of technicalities on the subject, which bottom line says 'it depends'. http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/f_DTV_on_LowBandVHF-03.10.04.shtml

Today I'm noticing dropouts intermittently on WKBW-DT, but I'm getting a very strong signal at 9bars. Anyone else getting dropouts. I'm wondering if its the station or my reception. Previously I haven't seen any dropouts from them at all. I'm posting this at 930AM. Now 230PM still seeing dropouts, signal still 9 bars.

Well, finally I got home today at 5:00pm, and turned on my OTA/165 to see if Ch7 was still on. And, yep got a signal on 38-1 (nothing was picked up on 38-2).

It ran for about 5 minutes, then they must have turned it off about 5:15.

I'll tell you this, I'd be ashamed to put that signal on the air. What a crappy picture. Looks like a color kinescope made circa 1952.

After 2PM today, the problem seemed to have cleared up. I had sent them an E-mail in the morning, maybe they did something to correct the issue.
7-1 had the stretched image, and 7-2 had the normal 4:3 image with side bars and no audio. I think they may be launching Monday fulltime because they will be demonstrating HDTV on AM Buffalo at 10AM.

OK, I know they're TESTING but the WKBW signal looks just awful -- soft and all mid-range with no real black or real white levels.

Then there's WUTV-DT which -- most of the time -- has a really good looking
picture and good sound.

YES, FOX LOOKS BETTER THAN ABC IN BUFFALO . . . . at least at this point.


I think it's time to start complaining to WIVB-DT again -- CSI was mirco blocking and freezing last night everytime there was a cut to a grainy, chroma rich flashback . .
and I do mean EVERY time.

For what reason are the sub chans back? Their HD image was GREAT without the subs.
And why now when WNLO-DT is supposed to go on air April 1?

has anyone picked up WNYO-DT chan 34? I heard they were testing as well.
Let's hope they get their act together by November for THE LORD OF THE RINGS- FELLOWSHIP of the RINGS in High Def.

Why the WB ? ? ? Oh, yeah, Warner Brothers owns New Line.

Small world.

Originally posted by GregHoey
I think it's time to start complaining to WIVB-DT again -- CSI was mirco blocking and freezing last night everytime there was a cut to a grainy, chroma rich flashback . . and I do mean EVERY time.

I watched CSI via Adelphia's HD channel. I did not experience that. There was a couple "burps" but I don't think it was bad last night at all.
You watching the OTA version?

I have heard no reports about WNYO-DT as of yet. They may well be up by April 1st. I have checked 34 for a signal daily and nothing yet so far. Although Mr. Merrill at WIVB did confirm to me in an E-mail that WNLO-DT will indeed be up on April 1st on ch-32 at full power. Also, lets at least give WKBW some credit here, at least they are testing, and hopefully soon we will see some HD from them.

Finally was able to watch some Fox upscaled Simpsons and That 70's Show without any major stuttering and over 15.5 dB signal rate. Now if only WKBW show up

If you can receive WUTV-DT then WKBW-DT should be easily received. They have a strong signal. Of course it may depend on your location. Are you north of south of the border? Also remember WKBW-DT only goes on-air from 9am-5pm approx. They have never been on in the evening so far.

I saw lots of problems receiving CSI on Thursday as well. I keep thinking its me, but then I hear reports from others. Hey, at least we can all complain together! :-)

I find WUTV's SD upconversion surprisingly good. Much better than the NBC/CBS SD feeds (which are very low starting resolution).

Anyone catch NBC's Crossing Jordon tonight? Talk about dark... but at least it was nice and clear. Had very strong reception tonight for some reason.

Ya, the problem is with WIVB, not your reception. I saw the freeze-ups and pixelation during CSI as well. Hopefully when WNLO-DT goes on air April 1st they can remove it as a sub-channel and devote all the bandwidth to HD, maybe that will resolve this ongoing issue with them.

Apparently WKBW-DT goes officially fulltime on Monday, but no HD for now.
They still have to install some HD Satellite recievers to receive the HD ABC feeds.

OVERALL SUBJECTIVE CAVEAT-
I base this on OTA reception with a SIR T-165 into a HD LEEZA into a NEC 10 PG CRT.

RE: WKBW IMAGE QUALITY --

I think we all acknowledge that WKBW is still testing and will give them the benefit of the doubt -- for a WHILE -- in the spirit of promoting HD.

That said, it is also as good idea to acknowledge and keep in mind that WKBW has been dragging it's feet for years on HD . . . . and when you are last you are invaribly and appropriately compared to whoever was first . . .

AND, I think it is appropriate to hold WKBW to a high standard.


RE: CROSSING JORDAN

Yes, Friday night's broadcast was VERY dark -- I had to raise both the black and the white level to get what I would call a "normal" image AND boost the chroma.
Last Sunday's show was MUCH better quality -- at least picture-wise.

Unfortunately, with this boosting the up-converted SD commercials were WAY too hot.

Which leads me to believe that some thing is a miss at the network if the network is doing the upconverting on national commercials which I assume they are.

Long story short -- VIDEO LEVELS seem to be ALL OVER THE PLACE in HD

I assume these are the annoying growing pains of a new format and of integrating HD programs with up-converted SD commercials . . . .

AND, what a shocker, it would appear that the commercials are taking first priority
RE: quality control. I have NEVER seen a national TV spot on an HD feed that has had the kind of video level problems that the HD programs ROUTINELY have.

Again, I would assume that this is in part due to HD's greater resolution and latitude
AND most likely, just that the HD signal is different from the NTSC signal .. . .

AND because 99.9% of the bill-paying commercials are run from NTSC masters
it would seem the technical deck is slanted toward NTSC and not HD.

So, what does this all mean...

It will all get better as the HD growing pains get worked out.

However, in the short run it is helpful to let the broadcasters know when they are doing
badly and when they are doing well. Complaints and compliments will speed the process along.


Greg

PS;


TECHO BABBLE-

I finally sorta confirmed this level issue with the waveform and vectorscope monitors
in Final Cut Pro.

The commercials scope pretty "normal" and the HD programs are all over the place.

Worst offenders

In general

NAVY NCIS = blacks severly crushed which increases the chroma level -- in NTSC. The hue/tint was swung toward the magenta.

On Friday 3/12/04

JOAN of ARCADIA = black levels high ie milky and white level low = milky

.....immediately followed by...

JAG = blacks somewhat crushed, chroma level very high.

.... immediately followed by . .

CROSSING JORDAN = black level a bit high, white level very low, chroma level low.

These are all taken RELATIVE to the commercials which ALL looked and scoped
"normal.

Granted, these are software based monitors being fed an analog down-converted HD signal that is then digitized and re-digitized a BUNCH of times before it is displayed
so this is far, FAR from being any kind of a standardized test.

What it DOES show is that the program levels RELATIVE TO THE COMMERCIALS
are, in fact, all over the place.


If I can do this on a laptop one wonders for what reason the networks and locals
aren't doing the same thing . . . . and then doing something ABOUT it.

The results are NOT subtle or difficult to interpret.

In regards to WNYO-DT, having looked at the FCC website, it appears they have an STA to operate at a mere .650KW or 650 watts. It likely will not be receivable in too many places, especially north of the border. Oh well.

Can someone tell me what power the following stations are broadcasting at:

CITY-HD
Toronto1 HD
WIVB
WKBW
WNED
WGRZ
WUTV

Thanks

7's on this evening ... with 2 subchannels, one is stretched SD (1280x704) and the other vanilla SD ... hope this is not the long term configuration, what a waste. Does suggest that WKBW will split their bandwidth, leaving WGRZ as the only high quality HD channel in town. Well it's early yet, but based on past history picture quality is not a serious concern at KB.

Too bad the broadcasters are sabotaging the potential of OTA digital ... in a few years there will be HD DVDs, and there are already VOOM and the other dbs HD channels ... all the piles of money the OTAs have spent for new transmission facilities, largely just to warm the ether as more people abandon mindless broadcast networks and head for DVD, cable, VOD, and alternatives who have learned they don't have a lock on the market, and have to actually compete.

Picked up WKBW for the first time tonight...

The good: stong and steady signal strength where I am.

The bad: Wow, both the upconverted SD and normal SD images look *horrible*.

Question. Here in Toronto on cable TV, the only channel that isn't fed via some digital master source is WKBW, which seems to be picked up by antenna - there's weak colors, often some ghosting and smearing, etc. All other Buffalo stations are crystal clear. Anyone know why this is the case?

I ask, as I see some of the same issues on WKBW's digital SD signal as I do on cable TV (it's just much worse on digital SD). Are they doing something "different" than other channels?

This makes channel 23 and 49 the only ones that aren't HD?

Is everyone else 24/7 HD?

I almost got full moving video on WKBW-DT just now, first time I have been able to get any picture from WKBW.

As far as I've seen NBC is not yet 24x7 HD (just most of the time). Probably the only channel that could be considered "actual" 24x7 HD is PBS! :-)

I thought I read here somewhere that 23 will begin broadcasting on 34 on April 1st or thereabouts. But, besides for 23 & 49, everything else of interest in Buffalo is at least testing on the air.

...Except perhaps for WPJX Pax 51. I can barely receive them analog, so I have no aspirations of getting them digital - I don't even know what their digital assignment is.

IND 46 WNGS-DT Awaiting FCC Permit
PAX 53 WPXJ-DT Awaiting FCC Permit
TBN 27 WNYB-DT Under Review
UPN 32 WNLO-DT Apr 1 2004
WB 34 WNYO-DT Awaiting FCC Permit

Could everyone update there user profile to include their LOCATION, it's very hard to determine just where you are when you post that you are receiving a signal strong without that infomation.

Don't say your in Buffalo if you live in a suburb either!

Is this acceptable?

Ok Profile is updated.

I am having the same problems on CBS as the rest of you. ABC was really terrible so I changed my 6000 receiver to 720p and it looks good now. I thought I would leave it that way for a while and see what happens.

Originally posted by Daniel Tonks
Picked up WKBW for the first time tonight...

The good: stong and steady signal strength where I am.

The bad: Wow, both the upconverted SD and normal SD images look *horrible*.

Question. Here in Toronto on cable TV, the only channel that isn't fed via some digital master source is WKBW, which seems to be picked up by antenna - there's weak colors, often some ghosting and smearing, etc. All other Buffalo stations are crystal clear. Anyone know why this is the case?

I ask, as I see some of the same issues on WKBW's digital SD signal as I do on cable TV (it's just much worse on digital SD). Are they doing something "different" than other channels?

Don't know but to speculate: many stations deliver a signal to large cable co.s by fiber or satellite, bypassing the OTA transmission. Sounds like KB doesn't, which is a little ironic as 7 counts the TO metro as a big hunk of its market. I heard they tried to put their digital facility up near Lake Ontario so they'd get better coverage up north.

Re: PQ, 7's picture got a lot better 'round here not too far back, the green cast to most network shows is gone and there's true stereo sound, not the synthesized mess we've had ever since they installed a stereo generator. My guess was an updated link from the studio, to support digital, and they take the analog off of that. Purely guessing.

The digital signal here looks like converted analog, fairly soft. I can quickly switch between the 2 and the analog looks sharper. Maybe they're not done with conversion. I hope they quit with the stretched 4:3 on 7-1, that would mean every major channel in town uses a different format, just to make life difficult for us with 4:3 displays.

Anyone know if WNLO 23 will be transmitting digital from Grand Island, or in the southern hills at the WIVB transmitter??

<rant=on>
And whatsup with double logo action on PBS? At least they canned that HUGE WNED logo they started out with, but do we need a PBS-HD logo? I can tell by looking at it that it's HD. And if I can't tell the difference, what's the use of a logo to tell me? <rant=off>

Originally posted by daredevil23
IND 46 WNGS-DT Awaiting FCC Permit
PAX 53 WPXJ-DT Awaiting FCC Permit
TBN 27 WNYB-DT Under Review
UPN 32 WNLO-DT Apr 1 2004
WB 34 WNYO-DT Awaiting FCC Permit

WNGS - 95% shopping!
WNYB - isn't this a religious networkl?

WNLO-DT will be transmitting from Grand Island on April 1st on ch-32.
WNYB-DT does indeed have a "Construction Permit" according to the FCC website and they are all religious, I'm not sure about their deadline to go to air
WNYO-DT also has an STA to operate at low power, as I've mentioned in a previous post. At 650 watts, I doubt we'll receive it north of the border anytime soon.
WPXJ-DT will operate on ch-53, but I think thats under review. If they use 53 it will conflict with City-DT and we won't receive it in the GTA. They neither have a CP or STA to operate at all anyways.

WKBW???

Does anyone know when they will be transmitting their HDTV signal? I heard that they need purchase a receiver to do so?

Originally posted by rubblerubble
Is this acceptable? If you live In Cheektowaga, you live in Cheektowaga.
If you live in Amherst, you live in Amherst.
You don't live in Buffalo!

If you live Buffalo that much to use the conveinance of the name then move there!

Same goes for Henrietta.............

BTW, the Postal Service doesn't dictate boundries. 75% of 14221 ISN'T in Williamsville!

Originally posted by videobruce
If you live In Cheektowaga, you live in Cheektowaga.
If you live in Amherst, you live in Amherst.
You don't live in Buffalo!

If you live Buffalo that much to use the conveinance of the name then move there!

Same goes for Henrietta.............

BTW, the Postal Service doesn't dictate boundries. 75% of 14221 ISN'T in Williamsville!

Please tell that to half the computerized address programs in the world. Over half of the things I receive in the mail say Buffalo regardless of what I put down.

AND... in our defense.... other than this particular forum where members might have a vague idea of where we are people will recognize "suburb of Buffalo" and understand it and not keep asking where the heck Amherst or Cheektowaga are. So please forgive us for being more general than you would like :-)

Has anyone noticed that WKBW-DT uses the feed of WABC NewYork for its ABC programming. I noticed they are covering up their logo, but a couple of times they forgot and the WABC logo appeared. They use a slightly different circle-7 logo. I also heard an announcer refer to the station as ABC7, and WKBW never calls itself ABC7.

As a side note, OMNI 2 Toronto is now broadcasting on ch-69, can anyone south of the border receive it, just curious. Its analog.

Originally posted by BetteH
Please tell that to half the computerized address programs in the world. Over half of the things I receive in the mail say Buffalo regardless of what I put down.

AND... in our defense.... other than this particular forum where members might have a vague idea of where we are people will recognize "suburb of Buffalo" and understand it and not keep asking where the heck Amherst or Cheektowaga are. So please forgive us for being more general than you would like :-) Two wrongs don't make a right!
If you lived in Buffalo you wouldn't have to worry about someones else's lazyness/stupidity!
If it is good enough to use the name, it is good enough to live there!

Originally posted by rf75

And whatsup with double logo action on PBS? At least they canned that HUGE WNED logo they started out with, but do we need a PBS-HD logo?

Yep, they listened to us when we emailed them about the HUGE logo, they will probably listen if we email them about the double logos too...

I would rather have the logo/bug just be an advertisement..as long as it is there, it might as well say Pepsi or Toyota! Why not, at least the station will get some revenue for burning that spot in our screens.. and hey, if it burned in Pepsi, just think of the advertising possibilities!! lol

I dont think WNED has any control over the PBS HD logo airing. They only have control over their own logo.

Question for Toronto folk. Ok I have gotten a samsung 151 and a silver sensor off of ebay, not suprisingly I am only pulling in toronto1. I was wondering what outdoor antenna have people had success with, and if anyone could recommend an installer? I was thinking of a channel master 4228, I'd rather not have to drop a boat load of cash at this point.
thank you.

Im in Burlington and I have a CM 4228 mounted on the south wall of my condo. This particular antenna has a very narrow angle (less then 10 deg) where the gain is the highest. This is not a problem in Burlington for the Buffalo stations since the angle to the most distant stations south of Buffalo runs through the closer in Buffalo stations located on Grand Island so no rotor is required. You can set it and forget it.

By the time you get over to Toronto the angle between the transmitter clusters is considerably greater. You may be better off looking for something with a little less gain but broader signal acceptance angle so that you don't have to go the rotor route and changing the antenna direction every time you want to change channels.

I'm using a pair of Televes DAT75's, but I'm also in a nasty valley.

Originally posted by Daniel Tonks
I'm using a pair of Televes DAT75's, but I'm also in a nasty valley. I have seen that name before in a test. Is that a Canadian brand? I never heard of it untill now.

VideoBruce,

I can attest to the DAT75. I live in Rochester, NY, and I never really could pull in WIVB from Buffalo on a consistent basis. I could get it when the atmospherics were good, but that was it. I tried two Radio Shack antennas, but neither worked.

The Televes DAT75 is made in Spain. It has three masts, each one with directors, so it almost has to work better than an antenna with a single mast. Anyway, I ordered two (one for my friend) and received them in one week. The DAT75 made the difference. Using the same preamp (ChannelMaster 7775), at the same height, I now can get WIVB pretty much any time of day or night.

Ron

Never been there..........

I will stick with American made products if I have a choice! Antennas give me that.

This link has some good information on gain of the populare antennas.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

I chose the DAT75's as they were better (both in reception and construction) than anything available locally from Canadian or US brands. And they're just really natty looking. :-)

http://www.atechfabrication.com/reception_solutions.htm

Interesting, i just called a local antenna installation company and they said that for HD reception they are having problems due to interferance from local channels specifically 41. To call them back in a week since it might be resolved.
Is there talk of moving channel designation? Or are they blowing hot air up my ass?

I think they are BS'ing you. 2 DTV channels can have adjacent channel assignments without causing interference with one another. Look at the Buffalo assignments for 38 and 39. I get them both without them affecting one another. Even their transmitters are near one another.

I don't understand why they would though, since it's 400-500$ in their pocket if they take the job.

Interesting, i just called a local antenna installation company and they said that for HD reception they are having problems due to interferance from local channels specifically 41. To call them back in a week since it might be resolved.

I think you will only have interference problems if you try to use a preamp. I had a CM4228 installed on a 5 foot tripod for $150 in Brampton. I had purchased the antenna locally for $95. I added a wingard 28dB uhf only preamp but that only caused overloaded signals and breakup. I stepped down to the 19dB gain winegard and it still causes breakup on CITY and Toronto 1. I get more consistent breakup free reception without any preamp installed. I have my antenna aimed to split the difference between the buffalo stations and toronto so I don't have to use a rotor. I'm going to try moving my antenna up another 5 feet this week to see if that improves my signal strength.

Well I'm having trouble receiving ABC-DT on ch 38, even though I can receive CBS-DT fine on ch 39. Reception is all relative to where you are located.

I dont have any trouble with any of the DTV Buffalo stations related to reception, although WIVB-DT still has that issue to resolve with freeze-ups
during certain scenes on shows like CSI and CSI Miami. Both WIVB-DT and WKBW-DT come in consistently at 9 bars on my Samsung Receiver.

You know, I'm tempted to buy the latest LG HDTV receiver, just because it seems that everyone who has WIVB reception trouble, like me, has a Samsung HDTV receiver, like me, so I can rule out the whole "it's a Samsung thing" variable.

I'm getting the same breakups and freezes on Adelphia's cable feed of CBS-HD. Especially when scenes are loaded with red color (like when they zoom in on the guts & stuff)

I don't know how Adelphia is getting their signal from WIVB into their system, whether it's via OTA or some other method. I'd say it's related to something with their equipment at the station, quality of signal being sent, or the CBS feed itself. Not the Samsung equipment.

Originally posted by pmb1010
I'm getting the same breakups and freezes on Adelphia's cable feed of CBS-HD. Especially when scenes are loaded with red color (like when they zoom in on the guts & stuff)

I wonder if the phenomenon you are observing is the mpeg chroma bug, it's most noticable with red color scenes because of the coinciding factor of red push.

I see on WKBW.com that they're finally broadcasting in HD. When did that start?

Any indication from Adelphia when they'll include them?

Adelphia doesn't offer an HD DVR yet do they?

Originally posted by cwoody222
I see on WKBW.com that they're finally broadcasting in HD. When did that start?

Any indication from Adelphia when they'll include them?

Adelphia doesn't offer an HD DVR yet do they?

WKBW is not HDTV! Only digital. I read somewhere that they need a receiver to get the HD stuff going. Any body else know anything?

Their FAQ did sort of say that but I wasn't sure. That stinks :( Thanks for confirming.

WKBW is waiting on a new HD satellite receiver.

I think they waited for a good deal off ebay!

I spoke with the engineering manager a while ago. They were all set to go hd but then abc in their infinite wisdom changed the receivers they were going to need to get hd. You would think they would have waited for everyone to be ready with new equipment before they changed, but they didn't. So, we have digital, we now wait for the hd!

What about Fox 29? Anyone know when they will go HD? They seem to be just broadcasting their SD feed on 14-1 (vir 29-1). I'm still waiting to see 24 in EDTV. Sigh. And what's up with the sound? It seems really loud and distorted for me. Anyone else experience this?

I didn't even know Fox29 was broadcasting digitally. When did they start? When did WKBW?

I don't have an HD set yet. I've told myself that I want WKBW in HD and an HD DVR before I jump in. Fox in HD locally would be great too but I thought little 'ol Fox29 might be a ways off still.

What does WB49 do? What about the UPN affiliate? I would assume they would be HD already since their sister station in WIVB is but I guess I'd be wrong. :(

Originally posted by cwoody222
I didn't even know Fox29 was broadcasting digitally. When did they start? When did WKBW?

I don't have an HD set yet. I've told myself that I want WKBW in HD and an HD DVR before I jump in. Fox in HD locally would be great too but I thought little 'ol Fox29 might be a ways off still.

What does WB49 do? What about the UPN affiliate? I would assume they would be HD already since their sister station in WIVB is but I guess I'd be wrong. :(

UPN is currently on the WIVB subchanel right now. I believe it's 39-2. They're suppose to up and running on April 1st on channel 32-1. I haven't heard of any word on WB49 yet though.

Is UPN in HD or just digital SD?

Heres the dope on WNLO-DT. Mr Merrill at WIVB confirmed to me today in an E-mail that WNLO-DT will be broadcasting in a few days on ch-32, and their will not be any UPN HD programming until they receive a sat. receiver from UPN, and he didn't know when it would arrive, same situation with WKBW.

WGRZ-DT will begin operation from 7AM-2Am on April1/04, and go fulltime on April 1/05.

WGRZ-DT will begin operation from 7AM-2Am on April1/04, and go fulltime on April 1/05.

And hopefully they will turn up the juice a little too!!!

They only have an STA to operate at 240KW due to Canadian issues with a non existant digital station in Barrie Ontario that is also ch-33 for future use.

And WGRZ has a smaller antenna tower of only 968 feet

And what about the fact that PAX is assigned ch 53 which is the same as CityTV-HD out of Toronto.

Originally posted by daredevil23
And WGRZ has a smaller antenna tower of only 968 feet

And what about the fact that PAX is assigned ch 53 which is the same as CityTV-HD out of Toronto. "Only 968 feet"?? Not a whole lot different than 4 or 7 on the same 'hill'!

I thought ch 2 went HD already?

I think ch 2 is HD already. I think the point was they're going digital ALL DAY as opposed to just prime time hours.

NBC doesn't broadcast their daytime soaps in HD do they?

Nothing during the day is in HD on ch2, just Digital, but the PQ looks quite good, especially their newscasts, so they have done some upgrading. Its much better PQ than WKBW-DT so far. I was just pointing out that they are increasing the hours of their Digital and HD signal to 19hrs (7am-2am) from the current 12hrs (2pm-2am) on April 1/04.

Maybe the PAX ch. assignment is only temporary until the transition period is over. That is kind of dumb assigning 2 ch-53's so close, but City-DT can only operate at a maximum of 2600 watts, but even at that ERP, line of sight can send it quite far, especially because of the height of the CN Tower. Some people are recieving City at 60 miles with only 650 watts currently as their ERP. It seems OTA digital transmision seems to have much greater range even at lower power levels than analog ever did, at least this is my experience.

Originally posted by videobruce
Two wrongs don't make a right!
If you lived in Buffalo you wouldn't have to worry about someones else's lazyness/stupidity!
If it is good enough to use the name, it is good enough to live there!

Thanx for making your feelings clear.
Goodbye

Originally posted by BetteH
Thanx for making your feelings clear.
Goodbye Dido!

Turn on UPN NOW! It's gone live.

There is the main channel and a SD subchannel.

Signal strength is very good as I'm getting 16 dB without even having the aerial pointed to the island.

Cool. Good signal here as well. A tad better then WUTV for me. Looks decent for an upconvert as well.

UPN with a SD of CBS... hmmm.

What **sucks** is that I can't pull in NBC channel 33 tonight. Coincidence to a stronger channel 32 coming on air? I fear not. I can pull in UPN over an 80 degree rotational arc of my antenna; NBC only ever had maybe 15 degrees max, while CBS has maybe 25-35.

WGRZ-DT on 33 is coming in fine at my location in Stouffville this evening, watching Fear Factor with no problems. 7 bars on my Receiver, and UPN is coming in with 9 bars on 32. I dont think digital adjacent channels interfere with one another the way analog channels do. WNLO-DT is licensed to broadcast at 1000kw but I doubt they are doing that.

I just wish WUTV and WKBW could have as strong a signal as WNLO does. So who wants to send me a 68' Delhi self supporting tower?

Well, from 8:00 to 9:05 there was nothing. The receiver would blink now and again, but not even a hint of a picture. At 9:30 when I checked again... everything was fine. And continues to come in now. Maybe they were in "Energy Star" mode! :-)

Originally posted by burloak
Im in Burlington and I have a CM 4228 mounted on the south wall of my condo. This particular antenna has a very narrow angle (less then 10 deg) where the gain is the highest.

Wow thats some pretty wild beamwidth figure's!!!! who told you that? im looking at the spec sheet on that antenna and it aint anywhere 's near 10 deg beamwidth. in fact even a 7 ft parabolic has a beamwidth at best of 17 degrees. the C.M. 4228 bowtie 8 bay is more like 40 degrees width.avg. a 4 bay would have wider and a yagi design would be much narrower. i think that if you had put a rotor on it and aimed it better you could have used the ap-4700 or even the ap4800.
i have a 72' tower/ 7 ft dish and a 19 db winegard amp/ zenith hdv-420. i can see grand island towers from my back yard and my system starring 17/29 down the throat produces no breakup/overload/pixelation etc. I think your receicing too much multipath from buildings and your not getting the real signal. try the rotor!! Regarding Televes antennas. they look pretty they are expensive as hell and when compaing they're best model against the prostar 9032 from winegard i cant see much gain difference at all. the additonal upper and lower parasitic directors only eliminate upper and lower noise and signals. which in some cases can hurt arriving signals. it would have been better to place these on its sides where it would tighten up the beamwidth more!!!im hoping to start marketing the 5+ 7 ft parabolic antennas again real soon for those of you wanting the ultimate. my 2 cents worth. Rich Wertman Lockport ,N.Y.








This is not a problem in Burlington for the Buffalo stations since the angle to the most distant stations south of Buffalo runs through the closer in Buffalo stations located on Grand Island so no rotor is required. You can set it and forget it.

By the time you get over to Toronto the angle between the transmitter clusters is considerably greater. You may be better off looking for something with a little less gain but broader signal acceptance angle so that you don't have to go the rotor route and changing the antenna direction every time you want to change channels.

rwantennasat, careful on how you reply to posts, keep your text outside the tags to make it easier to see what you have written.

What **sucks** is that I can't pull in NBC channel 33 tonight

I could not lock on 33 either. Problems on Sunday and Monday.
All other channels were strong.

I'm using a Samsung 151 and with WNLO, WUTV and WNED
I receive a signal of 9 (nine) bars 100% of the time.
I have never seen the unit go past 9 bars. Has any one
with a Samsung unit gone past 9 bars?

I have a Sammy t351. It has never gone above 9 bars and I'm 8 miles from the Grand Island towers.

Wow, only 8 miles - 9 bars.
I'm over 30 miles - 9 bars.

Does this mean 9 bars is 100%.

In the manual it looks like it goes past 9 bars?

Well this weekend added 15ft. of cable to the S.S. and a crappy radio shack pre-amp I had lying around and pulled in every channel except N.B.C.( this is on the ground floor pointing into my neighbors house!). Can't imagine what I would get going rooftop.

You Canadians are so damn lucky. I wish I could get those Canadian DTV channels.

Originally posted by dsspredator
Does this mean 9 bars is 100%.

Mine goes to 11;)

Mine goes to 11

Excellent. What channel gave you 11 bars?

And I'm still having problems with 33.1. It blinks
but it won't lock. Never had problems before.

I had the blinking NBC problem (really, I'm not swearing!) up until 9:30 PM yesterday, when suddenly everything worked fine. So, I'm going to assume that they're doing something to the signal. Maybe operating at even lower power.

I have never had a channel go above 9 bars on the SIR-T165... and yes, from the manual it looks like it should go much further.

UPN is coming in strong...I just wish they showed something that I watch, besides Enterprise! What I'm *really* hoping for is ABC to start showing The Practice in HD...

I had no issues during Las Vegas last night other than late switches to HD after commercials.

I also have had no problem with WGRZ-DT, its usually 8-bars but I have seen it go down to 5 bars at times, during tropo activity. I guess I'm in a good location for reception. Last Night during Las Vegas, WGRZ was 9 bars solid.

Thanks for the help!

I still can not get a lock on 33.1.

Right now:

7.1 (7 bars)
23.1 29.2 43.1 (9 bars)
39.1 (6 bars)
15.1 (7 bars)

I think I'm getting interference from WNLO on 32.1. (OR)
Like Daniel suggested maybe to save $ they reduced
their power for the increased broadcasting time?

I highly doubt you are having adjacent channel interference. Even if you were you would still get a signal strength registering on your Receiver.
The problem may just be tropo causing the signal to drop off. Last night I was picking up WXXI-DT Rochester which I usually only get in the summer, plus the Escarpment may block out some of the signal as well. At my location, the signal reaches me from directly across the lake without passing over the Escarpment to reach my location, maybe this is why some of you guys in the Mississauga, Oakville region are having more reception problems, even though you are closer in actual distance to the Buffalo Transmitters. I cant get anything Digital from ch-15, but instead get a Religious station from Grand Island WBNF-CA on ch-15

Well, 23-1 comes in 100% for me (have a 0-100 meter on the E86 Hughes), and yesterday (yes I checked) 2-1 was coming in at 100%, today it is coming in at 44-51%... only change has been the turning on of the switch over at WNLO... I can still get the station, but not quite as strong of a signal.

Other people not being able to lock on, this signal reduction, that can't just be a coincidence?

BTW: I took my silver sensor antenna, and 2 diplexers.... and I put the antenna on the roof, attached it with a few tie-wraps onto the Sat. Dish mast, and hooked up the diplexers... no amp.. I get all the Buffalo stations except 29-1 (WUTV). CBS/UPN/ABC - 100% PBS - 71% NBC - (44-51%) and FOX - 14%. (cannot pickup any other station, when I aimed the antenna at Toronto, I did get Toronto 1 in at 45% tho)

Need to figure out if an amp would help FOX, but I doubt it will.. need just a little umph to get that in without having to have a rotor! :)

Why dont you get a nice real UHF antenna, being so close to Buffalo and then try. I bet you will get much improvement. Its all a matter of line of sight for the most part, not so much signal strength. If you can get Toronto 1 transmitting at a mere 2.3KW, then its pure line of sight. My signal strength hasn't changed a bit for 33-1 since WNLO-DT lit up and I'm a good 90 miles out but on a high peice of ground.

Originally posted by dsspredator
I could not lock on 33 either. Problems on Sunday and Monday.
All other channels were strong.

I'm using a Samsung 151 and with WNLO, WUTV and WNED
I receive a signal of 9 (nine) bars 100% of the time.
I have never seen the unit go past 9 bars. Has any one
with a Samsung unit gone past 9 bars?

My friend Paul here in lockport has a 151 with a 7 foot dish and wiegard 19db amp at apx50' he is also in the highest part of town. We've compared his to my identical antena setup bu im using a zenith hdv-420. i can see things in rochester quite regularly. paul canot. i get signals from toronto, paul only gets a few bars but no signal we've concluded that the 151 is not very sensative
to week signals. we are gonna swap receivers and do some more testing.
but good luck a bigger antenna and a bigger amplifier may help you.

Although I didn't watch anything on NBC today, it was coming in fine tonight. I don't see how tropo is an instant on/off thing though... 8:00-9:05 nothing at all, 9:30-11:00 perfect?

I really need a better signal meter than the one in the Samsung. It basically shows 0 or 9. Meaning, on practially all channels, I either get a 9 (perfect) or a 0 (nothing at all).

I have to wonder why I'm receiving PBS and UPN off the Island almost too well, and then FOX is problematic. So far I have only gotten near normal video once on FOX.

As for the South Towns transmitters, CBS is excellent, whereas ABC which is one degree and one mile difference is problematic usually staying at or below minimum picture strenght, and NBC works on occasion, but without ever really exceeding anything but the minimum signal strength I need to render a picture.

My setup is a Dvico FusionHDTV 2 card in my computer with an older VHF/UHF with corner yagi design of unknown manufacture with a Radio Shack 20/25 preamp (similar to a Channel Master) since this antenna and 30' tower were a donation from my next door neighbour.

Most of the strong stations pull in at 17 dB or better, with the weak pulls sitting under 11 dB, and Toronto1 giving me 12 to 13 dB.

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
I highly doubt you are having adjacent channel interference. Even if you were you would still get a signal strength registering on your Receiver.


I checked 33.1 last night before I went to bed.
Again, I could not get a lock. The light blinks and when
I check the signal strength the bars flash up to 4 and the
station refuses to lock. I never had a problem for nine months
with WGRZ 33.1 until WNLO 32.1 32.2 came on the air.

And it looks like Daniel and theedge were also having problems?

Yes, but remember, it is only because our antennas suck! :) LOL.

Originally posted by dsspredator
And it looks like Daniel and theedge were also having problems?

Yes, I had problems on Monday. I just checked now, 3:25PM, and 33 seems to be coming in OK (about 87 miles away).

I **have** had the NBC blinking problem once or twice in the past, but Monday was the first in a long time, and with 32 coming on air at the same time...

WNYO-DT is now up on ch-34, but its so weak I can only see my light blinking off/on the receiver. They are only at 650 watts. Can anyone receive it.?

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
WNYO-DT is now up on ch-34, but its so weak I can only see my light blinking off/on the receiver. They are only at 650 watts. Can anyone receive it.?



Ihave wnyo here in s/e lockport. my hdv 420 has bad/normal/ good with a gold signal bar. ointing right at them with the 7 ft dish im in between normal and good closer to normal. anything below normal will not lock in. not bad for 650 watts???????? a true test for any antenna. B.t.w. they're tower is in Cowlsville ,N.Y. if you look on a map its near Rt77X Rt20a a tad west +south of Batavia n.y.
Rich Lockport.
P.S. seems a waste that wnlo and Wivb are running the same things in reverse. cant they find anything more interesting????

Here is a handy map to see where the transmitter for WNYO is located.

Actually having WNLO and WIVB carrying each others signals on sub-channels effectively increases the overall range of both stations, so its a smart idea. Hopefully 32-1 or 23-1 will have HD content soon from UPN, especially Enterprise.

I'm still trying to solve my WGRZ problem.

Can anyone verify that their power level is
the same as last week or have they decreased it?

I noticed they were on this morning at 7 AM but
I still could not lock in.

I just checked WGRZ-DT at my location in Stouffville and I'm getting 8 bars at 1130AM. This is what I usually get on a consistent basis. I sometimes even get it at 9 bars in the evening, but i have also seen it drop as low as 5 bars in humid weather but without any drop-outs. Why dont you E-mail them about their power levels. The FCC says they have an STA to operate around 240KW so I think they have to be at that level. Some people here seem to think WNLO on 32 is causing the problem, but I have my doubts and I myself get a very strong signal on 32.

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
I just checked WGRZ-DT at my location in Stouffville and I'm getting 8 bars at 1130AM.

Thanks for the info. Still no 33.1.

Also it seems WUTV 29.1 is now on!

Wow, 29-1 looks really good. I hope they will now have FOX EDTV stuff tonight. You know, now thinking about it maybe your problem is indeed the strong signal from WNLO. I know with analog reception if you have 2 adjacent channels, one being really strong and the other being fairly weak you will see some bleeding on the weak station from the stronger one, although I dont know if this applies to digital signals. WGRZ may not be strong enough at your location. I get good strength from both stations on 32 and 33 so it doesn't affect me at my location. Maybe you can get a Filter for ch-32 from some specialty electronics shop to try and attenuate it and see if 33 kicks in again. I played around with attenuation for 32 and i was able to knock it down 30db and it was still working beleive it or not, so I suspect they are indeed txing their ERP at the full 1000KW.

I decided to take out my spectrum analyzer and have a visual look at 32 and 33 and I was really surprised what I saw. The peak of 32 was literally miles above the peak of 33. In fact on the analyzer it appears like 32 is blended into 33 as best as I can describe it, although 33 is working ok. I got out some more attenuators and was able to drop it down by 44 db where it still delivered a picture and that was the threshold. I find that amazing, 44 db of attenuation and it still worked. Funny thing is the peak of 32 is way above the peak of 39 but they both register 9 bars on my Receiver. I think I stand to be corrected that 32 is definitely affecting 33 in some locations where I suspect 33 was quite weak to begin with, although this problem would likely be resolved when at some point in time 33 increases its overall ERP.

It's great news that WUTV is on the air. I believe my friend at Sinclair said they should be all set to receive EDTV now and HDTV later when FOX makes it availible.

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
I think I stand to be corrected that 32 is definitely affecting 33 in some locations where I suspect 33 was quite weak to begin with, although this problem would likely be resolved when at some point in time 33 increases its overall ERP.

Thanks again NCG!

Hopefully WGRZ will increase their power at some point. I can't analyze the signal like you but I did notice that WNLO stays at 9 bars no matter what direction my antenna is. For example, if I turn it north towards Toronto WNED and WUTV drop from 9 bars to 3 bars whereas WNLO stays at 9 bars.

Maybe when the weather warms up I'll install a channel master pre-amp and see if I can pick up WGRZ again (and maybe WB49).

How about NBC, ABC, and FOX just flip their frequencies and broadcast power.

Didn't see any EDTV on Fox tonight... also the sound seemed too loud, prone to static.

Does anyone else have an issue with locking onto the signal with ch 29? The tuner in my Dish 6000 seems to freeze up and takes about 15 to 20 seconds to bring up the picture.

There is nothing wrong with that, I just wish I could get any picture at all.

I dont have any problems with WUTV on my Samsung Reciever

I see WKBW has a promo commercial running now that talks about how great they are since they're broadcasting digitally now (finally). It mentions better picture and sound. Sure... would be even better if they got their act together like WGRZ and WIVB and aired in HD! Sheesh... what a waste of promotion...

I think ABC is to blame for WKBW not having HD. They apparently changed the equipment used by their affiliates, and now WKBW is just waiting for delivery of a new HD Sat. Receiver from ABC. It will come, hopefully soon. I'm glad all the Buffalo's got on-air by the mandated April 1st deadline.

Well, that's true. But, if WKBW wouldn't have waited until the absolute last minute to start transmitting digitally they wouldn't be at the bottom of ABC's delivery list probably and/or they'd be able to use the old HD equiptment in the meantime.

Is WB49 broadcasting digitally yet?

Originally posted by cwoody222
Well, that's true. But, if WKBW wouldn't have waited until the absolute last minute to start transmitting digitally they wouldn't be at the bottom of ABC's delivery list probably and/or they'd be able to use the old HD equiptment in the meantime.


Exactly. They dragged and dragged and dragged. If they were on the ball to begin with, maybe this wouldn't be so difficult for them.

Originally posted by cwoody222
I see WKBW has a promo commercial running now that talks about how great they are since they're broadcasting digitally now (finally). It mentions better picture and sound. Sure... would be even better if they got their act together like WGRZ and WIVB and aired in HD! Sheesh... what a waste of promotion... The commerical looks as it was written for/by a grade school kid that just got his first 13" protable TV!

I briefly had some excellent video from ABC this morning for about 30 minutes. :D

Then the signal levels fell to slideshow levels. :mad: :mad:

This is weird.

Just tried to watch WNLO 32.1 and when
I typed in 32 it remapped to 39.1 39.2 39.3 39.1 39.2 39.3
and 23.1 and 23.2 disappeared.

Did a reset and still no go?

WNLO is currently at 32.1 for me. WIVB is at 32.2 still.

I'm noticing the same thing at my location with my Samsung Receiver. It goes to 39.1. Although the ch-32 signal is still their on my analyzer, just cant tune to it now. What receiver are you using? I just sent an E-mail to the Engineering Dept. at WIVB/WNLO. Maybe they screwed up something.
Maybe this is only happening with certain Receivers.

I have a 6000 and yet still working at 32.1

Your receiver doesn't seem to re-map according to PSIP data like my Reciever, which i guess is why you are still receiving it. Mine always re-maps 32 to 23-1. If I punch in 32 now, it immediately goes to 39-1. Its likely some screwup at the station itself. I'm glad its not my Reciever causing the problem. I also tried a reset and re-scan, and it made no difference. If i could somehow turn off the re-mapping feature, maybe I could get it. This just happened today.

I was getting it at 23-1 up until yesterday.

I've already fired off an E-mail to them, but I'll bet the techs have gone home already. Obviously this is some sort of screwup of the PSIP info for the receivers. Someone likely input the wrong information into the data stream.

I just checked, and I'm still getting WIVB on 39.1. This PSIP stuff is somewhat annoying, in that it is still changing, even though they've been on the air for almost two years. I was getting WIVB on 4.1, and with that, I was getting the programming guide. About one month ago, I lost the reception, even though the strength meter said I had a solid signal. I checked, and sure enough, it was now on 39.1, and when that happens, I don't get the programming guide.

Oh, well, it's still HD.

Ron

Good, it's not just my receiver.

I am using a Samsung 151.

Well, I leave town for three weeks and everything is changed in the Buffalo HD / DTV world . . . . and not for the best it would seem.

I too am having these annoying variable mapping issues . . . . .

Perhaps if the FCC would spend less time obsessing over Janet Jackson and Howard Stern and more time enforcing a few basic technical standards these PSIP problems would get better.

Fat chance, eh.

While on the road I was spoiled by a hotel with HD in the room. That was fun and the most obvious thing I discovered was that ABC-HD looks GREAT . . . . .

. . . . . which makes the "new" WKBW seem even worse.

Their PQ is awful.

Let us not mince words here;

WKBW's PQ is unacceptable -- no true black, no true white, no color.

AND I get it on three positions in a row and they all suck.

Is this a power issue? or a low quality upconverter ? or what?
I'm 6 miles from the transmitter so I doubt if it is a reception issue.

Having seen ABC in HD makes putting up with WKBW extremely frustrating.

And what's with all their ads for "The Future Of TV?" WKBW is the last one to air with DT, they have the worst PQ, they have NO High Def and yet they are advertising more than WIVB or WGRZ did when they went HIGH DEF.

Have they no shame???

. . . . and whats with the stretch on their HD chan upconverts? If I switch it to "normal"
then all the other HD channels are squeezed in a 3x4 box.

Did they CHOOSE to do it the reverse of everyone else or is there a REASON???

Any news of any improvements at WKBW?


Greg

PS; Oh yeah, someone was having a mini-flame about us listing our locations.

Sorry, I have no GPS but I am 7 miles due south of WGRZ's tower.

The fun continues: my Samsung T165 shows the following channels on 39:

39.1
39.2
39.3
39.1
39.2
39.3

Yes, doubled!

I'm located in Canada with the Bell ExpressVu Model 6000 which is the same receiver as the Dish 6000, but different software. I get the same "stuttering" and lock-up with WUTV. When they first started transmitting the receiver was fine. The problem seems to have developed in the last 2 weeks. Sometimes the receiver simply locks up and has to be powered down. All other channels including Canadian HD channels are fine. Notably my 2 Samsung 150's exhibit no similar problems with WUTV. I assume it's something peculiar to the tuner in the Model 6000.

Any other Dish Network receivers exhibiting this problem?

GregHoey,

In Rochester, our ABC affiliate, WOKR, does HD passthrough from the network, and when they do, it is really very good. I think that NYPD Blue is one of the best weekly shows in HD. as far as video and audio quality. It goes without saying that Monday Night Football was fantastic.

I know what it's like to live in a city where the station went digital. You have WIVB and WGRZ, which are both excellent. Our CBS and NBC affiliates did the digital thing, but neither does HD passthrough. So, I put up the external antenna and get CBS from Buffalo pretty much all the time, but I only get WGRZ with good atmospherics.

Ron

I'm just getting into receiving (or trying to) ATSC material with a HTPC. Switching between the digital stations that xmit SD material, I have to change the aspect ratio back and forth between full and zoom especially with WKBW to get a correct image. I'm not referring to WNED that IS HD most of the time, just these imitation HD stations that only have SD material that they are broadcasting.

Why? SD, 4x3 should be all the same, right?

Does anyone here use a HTPC to receive these stations or is everyone using a 'real' receiver?

Originally posted by tvguy073
I'm located in Canada with the Bell ExpressVu Model 6000 which is the same receiver as the Dish 6000, but different software. I get the same "stuttering" and lock-up with WUTV. When they first started transmitting the receiver was fine. The problem seems to have developed in the last 2 weeks. Sometimes the receiver simply locks up and has to be powered down. All other channels including Canadian HD channels are fine. Notably my 2 Samsung 150's exhibit no similar problems with WUTV. I assume it's something peculiar to the tuner in the Model 6000.

Any other Dish Network receivers exhibiting this problem?


Must be... I had a problem with Toronto1 (66) causing my Samsung T165 receiver to lockup and reboot whenever I tuned it in - after the reboot it would lock on fine. Seems to be working fine lately.

I was watching WUTV 29-1 tonight. I must say that their SD upconversion (on the HD channel) is the absolute best I've seen from any of the Buffalo or Toronto stations so far (haven't spent much time watching UPN though). Rock solid, fine detail, crisp lines, no flickering even on the tiny text at the bottom of car ads.

In comparison, WIVB and WGRZ are horribly low resolution and flickery along contasting edges. CITY is noticably higher resolution than NBC or CBS, but doesn't pass as much detail as WUTV and still shows evidence of flickering in fine text. Toronto1 is probably somewhere along the quality level of CITY, and WKBW is -so far- absolutely horrible. They should really check out what WUTV is doing. As mentioned earlier, I haven't watched WNLO much, but their upconversion seems pretty good from what I *have* seen.

Just switching channels and checking out the UPN and CBS channels, and yes I'm getting D39-1 WIVB-HD simulcasting on channel 32. With UPN being shown on the -3 subchannel.

Perhaps they are just testing out their HD broadcast equipment.

Looks like channel 32 is back to D23-1 when I checked at 6pm.

I got an E-mail back from Mr. Merrill at WIVB. He said they are having
equipment problems that should be resolved soon which is why you are seeing 39-1 on 32.

VideoBruce,

I did the HTPC thing for about one year, with good results. I live in Rochester, and since we don't have HDTV for CBS or NBC, I put up an external antenna, got a rotor, and did it the old-fashioned way I built a HTPC because I wanted to record the programming, so a $400 ATSC tuner card / pvr was a great deal. What ATSC tuner card are you using? I have the HiPix card. The tuner is good, recording HDTV to the hard drive works great, and the sound is first rate (AC-3, straight into my Lexicon). I had a TheaterTek software DVD player, scaled the output via the video card to 1280 x 720p, and it looked great.

So why did I give that up? I wanted more HDTV programming, so I bought a Sony satellite receiver. They Sony has a great interface, in that it can switch seamlessly among cable drek, satellite input, or ATSC input. That means channel up / down switch automatically among those three sources, without any video input switching, preamp switching, etc. It means that it's a LOT easier for everyone in the family to use the system.

Ron

Today, I'm finally picking up WNYO-DT with 3 bars at my location. I guess some tropo is kicking in . I'm also getting WXXI-DT Rochester on 16 as well.

Originally posted by RIppolito
VideoBruce,

I did the HTPC thing for about one year, with good results. I live in Rochester, and since we don't have HDTV for CBS or NBC, I put up an external antenna, got a rotor, and did it the old-fashioned way I built a HTPC because I wanted to record the programming, so a $400 ATSC tuner card / pvr was a great deal. What ATSC tuner card are you using? I have the HiPix card. The tuner is good, recording HDTV to the hard drive works great, and the sound is first rate (AC-3, straight into my Lexicon). I had a TheaterTek software DVD player, scaled the output via the video card to 1280 x 720p, and it looked great.

So why did I give that up? I wanted more HDTV programming, so I bought a Sony satellite receiver. They Sony has a great interface, in that it can switch seamlessly among cable drek, satellite input, or ATSC input. That means channel up / down switch automatically among those three sources, without any video input switching, preamp switching, etc. It means that it's a LOT easier for everyone in the family to use the system.

Ron Thanks for the reply..............I trying this route, first because of cost (or lack of, though $370 isn't cheap). I want to see just what I can expect with HD material on a LCD screen first before I spend $4k on a 'real' set.
It is the MyHD MDP120 card w/ daughterboard. Many problems so far since it is very confusing regarding the 4 different places you can set the resolution and aspect ratio combinations!

I don't understyand why I have to change the aspect ratio between these digital stations running SD material especially WKBW!

The only really halfway decent material so far is the PBS station (WNED)!

VideoBruce,

I don't understand why you would have to change the aspect ratio, either. On the HiPix card, everything came through as 16:9. If the channel was broadcasting 4:3 material, they would broadcast bars on the sides of the image, either black or grey.

Ron

TO; videobruce

It seems WKBW has set their aspect ratio programming on their so-called
HD channel to the opposite of "NORMAL"

ERGO, to get "unstretched" upconverted SD on WKBW-DT you have set your receiver to
"PILLARBOX" or whatever you unit calls it which then causes ALL THE OTHER true HD channels to become horizontally "squeezed."

Not our fault. Nothing we can do but change our equipment for WKBW.

Yet another example of lack of standards and enforcement from the FCC and indifferent mediocrity from WKBW.

That stretced image on WKBW may be temporary until they get their HD sat receiver installed and working. Although, even when you set the aspect ratio to Pillar Box the picture looks better, but the quality is still not there. If you look at all the other Buffalo DTV stations, especially WUTV, their HD channel looks quite stunning even on non HD stuff, but this is not the case with WKBW. Everything looks upconverted. Even low power WNYO-DT looks better on their 49-1 channel than WKBW on 7-1.

I finally got to see some of this Fox upconversion everyone has been posting about, and you're right it does like quite good.

I am thinking that my 20 year old aerial and Radio Shack preamp isn't cutting it, time for some antenna upgrades.

Originally posted by GregHoey
TO; videobruce

It seems WKBW has set their aspect ratio programming on their so-called
HD channel to the opposite of "NORMAL"

ERGO, to get "unstretched" upconverted SD on WKBW-DT you have set your receiver to
"PILLARBOX" or whatever you unit calls it which then causes ALL THE OTHER true HD channels to become horizontally "squeezed."

Not our fault. Nothing we can do but change our equipment for WKBW.

Yet another example of lack of standards and enforcement from the FCC and indifferent mediocrity from WKBW. I thought it was me, I'm still tring to figure all of this out. There are a couple of other stations that I have to change the aspect ratio from full, zoom or leterbox (the 3 choices with this card).

It seems watching that 14" B&W table model TV with the antenna in the attic (suspended by a small rope) that I had to swing around when I wanted to watch channel 6 (if you remember when ch 5 was ch 6) and ch. 9 out of Toronto when I was 7 years old seemed easier compaired to all the crap you have to go thru just to watch TV.

I don't have to walk up in the attic anymore, but it takes just as long to change channels and customise everything so you can view the channel correctly!

Never liked the FCC! Useless attorneys that don't know a damn thing about RF!

I sent an email to engineering at WKBW with a suggestion to turn off stretching on their end, looks like they've decided to ignore me. It really should be temporary until they get their new HD satellite receiver.

When did they go TRUE 'stereo' instead of that simulated fakeout mono that they had for years after everyone else went BTSC??

Amazing how many never really knew the difference!

I knew the difference, it sounded like being in a tunnel. Has anyone noticed ch-32 UPN is back again to mapping to 39-1. I wonder what the heck they are trying to do.

When did they actually get the decoder/encoder in?
Yes, it did sound as it was in a tunnel especially when you listened to only one channel!

Wonder if it will that long for the HD receiver? That should make it 2012 maybe??

I certainly hope that WIVB-DT and WNLO-DT can sort out their needlessly confusing
PSIP mapping issues and QUALITY DEGRADING duplication of signal . . . .

Let me say the words; we do not NEED WIVB-DT and WNLO-DT to
run each other's signals. It serves no benefit to we, the viewers, that I can see.


Sadly, WIVB-DT once the leader in HD in this area has now slipped back to
all too frequent episodes micro blocking and freeze-ups . . . . due to it's putting WNLO on it's sub channel.

JUST FOR BACKGROUND PERSPECTIVE -- keep in mind that WIVB and WNLO are part of a much larger company -- LIN TELEVISION CORPORATION; Providence RL <http://www.lintv.com/> -- which owns approx 22 stations nationwide.

Ergo, alot of our local technical issues are likely linked to out-of-town factors. IE less easy to control.

The MOST problematic non-local factor that is likely complicating our HD lives is that WIVB and WNLO get their non-local program content -- HD and SD -- from a HUB STATION in Indianapolis which also serves approx NINE OTHER LIN-owned stations in the Midwest.

ERGO, all the switching of NETWORK HD and SD programming is done in INDIANAPOLIS and then fed to the transmitters in Buffalo.

AND, this same hub is switching network feeds from ALL THE OTHER NETWORKS -- except WB I believe -- and sending them to the transmitters in other cities .

It would seem that this complicated system is prone to problems.


To be sure I have some compassion for the broadcasters that have to shell out alot of capital to set up the digital infra-structure and I have some compassion for the
engineers who have to deal with new formats . . . .

That said, my compassion ends when the broadcaster begin REGRESSING and losing quality rather than progressing.

LONG STORY SHORT

The local problems are likely not entirely caused locally and are therefore not likely to be fixed locally.

I would suggest we ALSO complain to the corporate ownership at LIN when WIVB-DT and WNLO-DT are having problems.

Just my two cents

All that makes it worse for a newbie like me.
I never know if it is me that is f****** up,
them, the H/W or the S/W!

I think having either station broadcast on each others sub-channel is actually a good thing. Here's my perspective. Suppose a power failure occurs at WIVB's transmitter in Colden, and it goes down. Hey, I can still watch WIVB, through the sub-channel of WNLO which has its transmitter on Grand Island. I realize it wont be HD and highly compressed, but hey, its better than nothing. For big sporting events or major stuff they can easily temporarily dump the sub-channels to increase bandwidth for HD.
Lets hope Ch-32 is fixed by Monday.

Can someone else verify this.

Right now my DTV light is blinking on CH 55.
I can't lock a signal but there is something there.

This week when WIVB/WNLO starting having their
mapping problems I re-scanned my channels and
noticed the Samsung paused on CH 55. I know
Global broadcasts from Fort Erie on CH 55 and I've
rotated my antenna twice. I'm receiving the most
DTV blinks with the antenna facing Buffalo?

PS - I'm not impressed with WIVB's Masters coverage!

TO: NewCableGuy

Actually, I agree with you . . . IN PRINCIPLE -- back ups are good and yes, it does extend their mutual converage areas.

However, it's THE PRACTICE we have to live with and IN PRACTICE, the "dual casting" seems to be reducing the quality of BOTH WIVB-DT and WNLO-DT . . . . . and just when I thought they had solved the micro-blocking problems on CSI . . . . . .

Anybody got any technical insights into all this ??

Again, I do think a goodly part of the problem is likely the INDIANAPOLIS HUB thingy.

Altho not perfect WNED certainly demonstrates that a SD sub chan doesn't have to mess up an HD channel, altho to be fair [ and balanced ] PBS' picture content is not exactly as dynamic as CSI.

And OF COURSE, there's WNLO-DT;

FOX is making EVERYONE look bad these days -- great upconverted PQ --- who'd a thought, eh?

Yes, TITAN TV strikes again and gets it backwards.

THE WHOLE NINE YARDS is NOT HD . . . is it CBS or WIVB????

MEN IN BLACK is in HD and looks quite decent . . .

but I REALLY had to turn up the chroma and video levels to make it
look "normal."

More later . . .

Yes, WIVB was having lots of problems with their coverage today. Picture had breakups and the audio went out a few times for quite a while. I know the problems were at the source and not my reception. The sub-channel had no problems at all. When they switched back to SD their was a scratchy sound in the audio as well.

Problems with the Masters coverage is an understatement. It was nothing short of embarassing.

I mean WTF? The same problems they had Friday get repeated Saturday without being addressed? It's 18 hole coverage tomorrow...and I sure hope they get it right.

Bill

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
Yes, WIVB was having lots of problems with their coverage today. Picture had breakups and the audio went out a few times for quite a while. I know the problems were at the source and not my reception. The sub-channel had no problems at all. When they switched back to SD their was a scratchy sound in the audio as well.


Yeah, that is sort of a flag for me that the problem isn't at my end. If I'm getting tons of problems with WIVB and yet the subchannel is fine, likelihood is strong that it's on their end.

I have to agree, over the last month something has changed at WIBV. Quality of their management of the HD signal has gone downhill. Lots of mistakes coming back from station breaks, the remapping errors affecting WNLO which have persisted, and the massive video and audio breakups in what should be the spring time showcase of HDTV.

Funny enough the WNLO remapping did deliver the first real HDTV signals I've received from Channel 32.. first the masters mess and then after they sorted some things out, the last half of the movie "The Whole Nine Yards".

WNLO is so strong here in Burlington that I was able to watch it with my channel master 4228 aimed 90deg's away at channel 53 Citytv Toronto. They we both showing the same movie.. 53 with a very good SD upconvert (even though their guide promised HD) but 32 won the day towards the end with full HDTV with all of its benifits.

Here's hoping CBS gets it all sorted out for the masters final day. They have to get moving because the coverage has been moved up to 1:30pm!

I've been following all these little problems the past few weeks on this thread. It really makes me not want to bother and jump into HDTV. (I've been trying to convince myself for awhile)

If I do go HD I'd probably get it via cable as I live in an apartment and can't have an antenna, etc.

Do these sort of problems happen on Adelphia-supplied HDTV. Obviously I realize only WGRZ and WIVB (and PBS) are carried now by Adelphia so other stations' problems are a different story.

I mean, if I was paying Adelphia for HD and then suddenly WIVB screwed up, I wouldn't want to pay Adelphia!

Thank goodness WE aren't having ANY problems..............
Lets see now, how many threads are there in this formn with how many problems with how many pieces of equipment???

I think you guys should lighten up a little. This is all new for everyone! Just because the EIA (or whatever it is called now) rushed this stuff out on the market so they could make really big $$ and line their pockets, doesn't mean it was all suppose to work right out of the box.

Just think, in 5 or 10 years from now when all of this is ironed out (and there REALLY won't be anything worth while to watch) we will just laugh about it!

Notice my sig..........

All the early adopters of HD products are the ones that have to suffer through the growing pains and all the glitches that happen. But it all will improve over time.

As I said, 5 or 10 years or so.............

TO: videobruce et al.

Yes, perhaps there is the tendency toward whining and "awfulizing"on forums such as these . . . .

that said, there are alot more points of mutual benefit.

SUCH AS;

1 -- Reporting on technical problems helps us define and in many instances fix
problems -- AND it's comforting to know when OTHERS share a problem.

2 -- Reporting on technical problems brings them into the open and can help, ah,
PERSUADE and ENCOURAGE broadcasters and equipment manufacturers to
do something about the problems. Nothing personal, but if nobody complains
broadcasters and manufacturers will just keep doing what they're doing or NOT doing.


I would respectfully suggest, videobruce, that saying "things will get better
in the future so why complain now" is not proactive or helpful.

Yes, things WILL be better a/o different in the future . . . . . but that future will come
sooner rather than later if action is taken now.

WHAT ACTION?

If you see a problem -- complain and complain effectively.

Complain to the local station, to the company that owns the station, to the network,
to the FCC, to your Member of Congress.

Trust me, letters of complaint [ printed rather than E mailed ] get MUCH more attention than positive letters and INFINITELY more attention than NO letters.

Not fair? Who said anything about fair -- that's the way it works.

AND

The more informed and articulate your complaint is the more effective it can be.

WHICH TAKES US BACK TO . . .

posting complaints and problems on this forum to learn more about the problem
is a good thing.

Keep in mind; NOT VOTING IS A VOTE FOR THE STATUS QUO

. . . . and, oh yeah, that applies to politics as well.

Originally posted by New Cable Guy
I think having either station broadcast on each others sub-channel is actually a good thing. Here's my perspective. Suppose a power failure occurs at WIVB's transmitter in Colden, and it goes down. Hey, I can still watch WIVB, through the sub-channel of WNLO which has its transmitter on Grand Island. I realize it wont be HD and highly compressed, but hey, its better than nothing. For big sporting events or major stuff they can easily temporarily dump the sub-channels to increase bandwidth for HD.
Lets hope Ch-32 is fixed by Monday.
Colden site (and GI too I believe) have backup power. There's really no good reason to waste bandwidth with this duplication. I'm starting to believe the conspiracy theories that suggest station managements are hoping we won't get used to the highest possible quality of DTV and thus won't notice if they decide to throw shopping channels or other income supplements on the allegedly surplus bandwidth. :mad:

Ch 29 issues?

Just noticed 29-1 is now showing more than bars, apparently the same primary signal but at higher res, which my HiDTV card reports as 1280x1080i. The HiDTV card shows a scrambled mess if I try to let it stay at (my) default 1920x1080i, I have to switch to p&s mode by hand.

God I wish these stations would pick a consistent format. Maybe someday ... :mad:

I have no problem displaying D29-1 at 1920x1080 on my FusionHDTV card.

So, WUTV is doing 1080 I and the FOX NETWORK will be doing 720 P
but is NOW only doing 480 P for their WIDESCREEN STUFF . . . . . but what we're getting is 480 I upconverted ALBEIT VERY NICELY to 1080 I.

Have I got this right?

I be confused.

. . . . AND my Samsung SIR T-165 doesn't indicate formats.

I be confused

Well I broke out my trusty analog Leader SLM from 1984 out and started measuring signal levels off my antenna and thought I would post the results since most of you probably don't have one (meter that is). Unfortunately it isn't a digital tuner, just analog, so it was very hard if not impossible to separate the 2 and 3 channels that are next to one another, but I did what I could. I have another UHF only but that is fixed NW for G.I. and Toronto, but I will be putting a rotor on that this summer.

From the 14216 zip I found using a small V/U combo 25 year old antenna (that probably will be replaced this summer) on the roof of a typical 2 1/2 story house in this area this is what I got downline of about 20' of RG6 (I measured it in the attic where it entered):

14 -3db
32 18
33 2
34 -6
38 -4
39 1
43 8

This is a huge difference from the analog levels where I have to deal with over 40db from ch 29 and over 30 from ch 17 & 23! I'm less than 7 miles from G.I. and I can see the top tower lights at night.
I am using the MyHD 120 card as a tuner and of the 3 settings (letterbox, zoom & full) the following is what I have to set each cahnnel to to properly view it:
The 7 channels use what I call the 'zoom' mode on subchannel 1 and 'full' mode on subchannel 2 except ch33 that only has 1 subchannel and 38 that has the same format on both subchannels.
Most of what I have seen is durning the day since I work afternoons and only ch43 has any REAL HD material on subchannel1 and that uses letterbox.

Hope that made sense. I don't know how decicated receivers handle this. Is there the same switrching back and forth, or do the receivers do all the work?

I agree, WIVB has had a lot of problems over the last year. Hope they get it straightened out soon. This forum is a great spot to "whine" about things like that, then you know it's not your equipment, but the station.

Does anyone know when WUTV will have an HD signal? With the reports of them broadcasting up to 6 HD football games a day next year, just wondering if we will see them.

Thanks

I actually called WUTV about their digital signal being off. They were extremely pleasant to deal with. I was informed that they needed a part to be delivered from Europe, because they didn't have a spare available.
They were hoping to be up by Friday at the earliest but maybe not until Monday. I also asked about why WNYO-DT was such low power and they said essentially it was the Canadian Govt. CRTC and Industry Canada that is preventing them from broadcasting at anything more than 650 watts, because of some U.S/Canada Treaty regarding broadcasting. They also told me that their facilities for both stations have been ready for ages but Canada has prevented them from getting on-air, and this is affecting lots of border stations and some of these broadcasters feel that Canada is deliberately duplicating border channel assignments and using the treaty to keep them at low power so they cant broadcast a signal into Canada. Many of these border stations will likely be stuck at low power until the analog shutoff whereby they can revert back to their original channels and operate at full power, because their is nothing Canada can do if they operate DTV on their original channel assignment.

Good info on WUTV and our Canadian situation.

Any word on HIGH DEFINITION for FOX and WB ??

Keep in mind WB will be showing LORD OF THE RINGS - THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RINGS in HIGH DEF this fall . . . . . that would be good to see. That SHOULD be an incentive for WNYO.

NOW I get the Canadian thing . . . . altho I must say it gets a little tedious
for them to be "protecting" their culture on one hand while actively gobbling down our culture on the other.

I still find it ironic and annoying that Canadian satellite users can get the US
HIGH DEF feeds for six bucks a month . . . . . Canadian.

AND just want to keep mentioning just how GOOD WUTV's upconversions look and how BAD WKBW's look.

Has anyone noticed that CBS Buffalo's 39-1 main channel has gone down in power? I use to be able to pull in 80% signal consistently...now I'm getting somewhere between 25% - 50% and having a tough time getting a lock on it. Luckily I can still get strong signal on 23-1 which seems to be broadcasting the main CBS feed now instead of the UPN feed. Has anyone else experienced a signal drop on 39-1? Does this have anything to do with the recent problems they've been having with remapping etc?

merlock

My signal strength on 39-1 is the same as it always has been. I get 9-bars
consistently. The only problems i've had with WIVB-DT has to do with station itself and not my reception of it.

By the way, the Canadian culture thing you mentioned is nothing more than a lot of BS. Its just another excuse to keep out American and other foreign broadcasters. In fact the CRTC after 14 months has still not ruled on the application for RAI International and Al Jazeera to broadcast on cable here. They're saying its all political, that the Liberal government is forcing the CRTC to stall the ruling until after the election because it might influence votes from certain ethnic groups here.

Well I'm seeing a signal again on channel 14, so it seems that WUTV got the part they needed and are back up and running.

--Todd

Thursday night there were 2 CBS HD feeds. One was showing as 39.1 with 60% signal, the other showed as 4.1 at 100%. I hope this all gets straightened out by the time the HD tivo arrives!

This is because WIVB is duplicating itself on both Ch-32 and ch-39 for now.
Some technical thing with WNLO. It will be a while before its fixed.

Without going back in this LONG thread, what HD stations out of Ontario and Rochester are up and running??

2 stations are currently broadcasting, or actually 3 but one is a duplication of the other. CH-66 Toronto 1 is receivable at least some others report in Lockport. Also City Tv on ch-53 at 600 watts. The other is ch-15 Hamilton which is a duplication of ch-66. Funny thing is that I get that religious station from Grand Island on ch-15 but not the digital one from Hamilton.
By the end of this year or sooner their should be CBC,CTV,Global, CBLFT and CITS on the air. They will operate on ch20,ch40,ch64,ch24 and ch35. CTV and CBC will broadcast at about 40000 watts, so it should be receivable in Buffalo. As for Rochester, ABC,NBC, CBS and PBS are all operating, most at low power except for WXXI-DT which is at full power and I can receive it most days, but not in the winter. CBS and NBC Rochester are just low res. upconverts with no HD at all. They are hard to receive because of the low power situation.

Is The Mummy Returns being broadcast in HD, TitanTV indicates it as so, but I'm not getting enough signal strength to even see a hint of a picture.

WKBW hasn't done ANYTHING in HD yet. But I did specifically check, and no.

It was shown in HD out of Rochester on 59.1.

Thanks New Cable Guy for the info................

I'm not east enough for Rochester (except in the summer sometimes, just enough to see what channel/network they are, just as Erie can be), but those HD channels in Toronto I will try. I don't know how they can allocate 2 ch 15's within 25 or so miles of one another! You can't get 15 out of Hamilton with that useless religious station overriding it!

Who's tower is that religious station using? I like how they say it is in Buffalo when it is on Grand Island! Around here, we all know that is really another country!

Can anyone around Buffalo pick up this station?

I get some signal in St. Catharines but I can't lock on to it.


WENY-TV NY ELMIRA USA (Digital)

Licensee: LILLY BROADCASTING, L.L.C.
Service Designation: DT Digital television station

Channel: 55 716 - 722 MHz Construction Permit
File No.: BPCDT-19991029AGG Facility ID number: 71508
CDBS Application ID No.: 423212

42° 06' 20.00" N Latitude Site in Canadian Border Zone 76° 52' 17.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Horizontal (H) Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 44. kW ERP Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 320. meters HAAT Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 718. meters AMSL Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 198. meters AGL

There is a Global repeater using Ch-55 in Fort Erie which surprises me that you are getting a Digital ch-55 instead of the Fort Erie Signal since you are way closer to Ft. Erie.

Global repeater using Ch-55 in Fort Erie

I know. But my box is digital only and I've seen at least 1 blink every 10 seconds on my 151 while tuned to 55. NCG have you received any signal on 55?

I get nothing on ch-55 at my location. Are you sure its WENY-DT?

I did a search on the FCC site and Elmira is the closest
digital 55. I have been getting hits on that channel ever
since I re-scanned my channels when WIVB/WNLO started having
mapping problems. Interestingly, I get more hits on 55 than 33 since
I still cannot lock on WGRZ.

Originally posted by dsspredator
I know. But my box is digital only and I've seen at least 1 blink every 10 seconds on my 151 while tuned to 55. NCG have you received any signal on 55? That "blink" is probably just garbage since you are WELL out of range ESPECIALLY since you are below the escarpment!!
I doubt anyone in the northernhalf of Erie county could pick up a analog station let alone a digital station that far away!

Check with the poster "rwantennas", he does a lot of the long distance watching, he'd be able to tell you.

Has anyone heard when 29 is going to go HD?

If you look at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2312831#post2312831 you'll find that I once got a blip on 55 almost one year ago. :cool:

Our semi-reliable friends at TITAN TV have got WKBW-DT listed
as NOW broadcasting ABC shows in HIGH DEFINITION.

Is this true???

. . . . or has TITAN jumped the gun . . .


If so hopefully this means their PICTURE QUALITY will get better.

If it's just a HIGH DEF version of the crap PQ they've had til now I actually think it'll be
MORE frustrating


Boy, every time I go out of town . . . . . .

Originally posted by GregHoey
Our semi-reliable friends at TITAN TV have got WKBW-DT listed
as NOW broadcasting ABC shows in HIGH DEFINITION.

Is this true???


NO

Originally posted by dzt41j
Check with the poster "rwantennas", he does a lot of the long distance watching, he'd be able to tell you.

Has anyone heard when 29 is going to go HD?

Rich here,
regarding weny elmira i have seen them analog numerous times but nothing yet didital. plus conditions must be just right . Tropo /inversion or fantastic ground scatter. i have watched syracuse, in fact it was in last week during the couple warm nights. i've also seen Erie/Cleveland/Toledo/Akron-Canton oh.
And Toronto ocassionally. Watertown+rochester are regulars.
Keep in mind im using a 7' parabolic dish with a winegard preamp for uhf at about 75' high.
hopefully this will enlighten. i doubt what your seeing is Elmira.
your signals could be intereference or noise.
Rich

Has anyone used this antenna from RS with success?

Outdoor Antennas for UHF-Only (Channels 14-69)
$23.99
Catalog #: 15-2160


http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/15/15-2160.jpg

That doesn't look like it has enough elements. Maybe something like this would help. http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.jpg

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm

I actually have both of these antennas on the same mast.The 4228 I use to get Buffalo stations and the little rat shack one I use to get Rochester stations.
The little rat shack yagi does pretty good but I think I'm only about 20 or 30 miles from the towers.The 4228 does great.I have it hooked with the 7775 preamp and I pick up all the Buffalo channels with no problem at 60 miles.

Is anyone in this area using a HTPC and a LCD display to view OTA HD channels?

I'm wondering how 'cartoon' like the image looks like on SD material.

WUTV-DT:volume - watched my usual FOX lineup last Sunday night, and noticed the volume pumping all over the place, almost like a misadjusted limiter ... which I foolishly thought would be an artefact of the past once digital started. Sounds like poor engineering is just as likely in a digital world. Audio is by way of the HiDTV card over the PCI bus to the Audigy 2 Soundblaster card.

Too bad, since the video was beautiful, better than 29 analog over cable (ch 6) which used to be best (i.e. no UHF reflections to deal with).

Anyone else notice oddio from 29-1?

If anyone has noticed that now the TitanTV schedule for WGRZ-DT now extends past 2300 hours on a daily basis, that was my fault as I sent TitanTV a quickie email about it and they fixed the missing information. Surprisingly it was also done relatively fast, since I emailed them on the 17th and they sent a reply on the 21st. :cool:

Anyone notice WIVB is stretching their SD stuff now like WKBW does. I wonder why. I also wish WIVB would stop broadcasting from 2 transmitters and put back the higher quality WNLO where it should be. I'm beginning to wonder if this is a permanent thing, using 2 transmitters to increase their overall range. By the way, dsspredator, I'm using that antenna you posted in my attic. Its quite directional but doesn't have as much gain as my combo antenna.