How is the Greensboro TWC passing HD signals these days? Does anyone have acatual bitrates of what's coming down the cable? Is the native 1080i or 720p resolution being passed?
I don't know, but the pq seems to be getting worse on the ball games. Lots of compression artifacts, to the point where it's very distracting.

Any concerts with strobes or news programs with camera flashes totally macros out the picture on all 3 of my TVs. Swimming grass on football fields, pixellation on dark backgrounds....even HDNet looks like crap these days on TWC. If MPEG4 is all it's hyped to be, and all HD channels on D* are MPEG4, they've got a new customer (back).

BTW, a quick ? for Mr.12...

Can you get any farther than I can through NBC's website feedback regarding the horrible shuddering on NBC Sports HD productions? It seems to happen during camera switches, and this weekend I observed it during the Notre Dame game and the NASCAR race (second race in a row I've noticed it)

How is the Greensboro TWC passing HD signals these days? Does anyone have acatual bitrates of what's coming down the cable? Is the native 1080i or 720p resolution being passed?

It seems to me that the local networks look ok, but the cable nets are looking bad these days. My main criteria is during football games. CBS (on cable) always looks fantastic. ESPNHD always looks bad. ABCHD (OTA) always looks much better than ESPNHD on cable. FOX (cable) depends on the game. I have switched between FOX OTA and cable (a little), but never noticed a big difference.

I have seen similar problems to roland6465 in regards to strobe effects. It really plays havoc with the PQ.

I hope TWC's SDV system helps with PQ. I also hope ESPN2HD comes to TWC sooner rather than later.

Has anyone noticed strobe effects causing macroblocking on OTA broadcasts?

It would be great if TWC would shut off analog cable transmission above channel 14, and offer 1 free cable box to each customer to recover analog bandwidth. Keeping analog below 14 lets TWC offer the local stuff without a cable box for secondary tv's.

The problem with that is you immediately have made everyone's High Cost Picture in Picture, VCR, DVR with Tuner Built In, TIVO, PCI/USB TV Capture device obsolete and they will no longer work.

Even on my HDTV, I still will use the PIP daily, which would become obsolete with the change you suggest.

While I agree with you 100% it would be great, you cannot alienate 75%+ of your base subs like that. Even HDTV families have other cable ready devices such as listed above.

I wish it would be cost effective to build a box that would install where the cable enters the residence, takes the digital channels and reconvert them to the old analog cable channels, so that the bandwidth could be reclaimed, without upsetting the subscriber base.

However, I am sure if it was close to economically feasable, it would have been done already. This would also solve other forthcoming problems - even though you would need all the boxes now and less everyday in the future - making them a bad investment.

Hey HDTVF! When did you move from CA? ;)

The problem with that is you immediately have made everyone's High Cost Picture in Picture, VCR, DVR with Tuner Built In, TIVO, PCI/USB TV Capture device obsolete and they will no longer work.

My older SD TiVo works just fine with the digital cable box. I just run S-Video out from the cable box into my TiVo. And I didn't know anyone actually ever used PiP :) Honestly, I've had it on my TVs for years and never used it.

Can you get any farther than I can through NBC's website feedback regarding the horrible shuddering on NBC Sports HD productions? It seems to happen during camera switches, and this weekend I observed it during the Notre Dame game and the NASCAR race (second race in a row I've noticed it)

Try calling 212-664-4444. That # is for viewer comments. I haven't noticed the shuttering you describe, but I do see the macroblocking on the Notre Dame games.

WFMY 2.1 missed the opening to NCIS (again)

Where is the HD Fox?

This is the World Series, last time I checked. Kinda important.

yea what the heck, all other nights have been? weird. my cardinals all the way;)

Where is the HD Fox?

This is the World Series, last time I checked. Kinda important.

It's a local issue because Fox 88 out of NYC via D* is in HD. While you guys are watching SD on 8.1, I'll be watching in HD on 88 = )

MilChad, could U gloat anymore ;) jk enjoy it

Not sure why 8.1 won't "flip the switch"? I keep checking back and no dice.

My older SD TiVo works just fine with the digital cable box. I just run S-Video out from the cable box into my TiVo. And I didn't know anyone actually ever used PiP :) Honestly, I've had it on my TVs for years and never used it.

Most people want to use the TIVO with its menus and push a button to record - not set up an extra link to also change channels on a digital cable box etc. Guess you can't record 2 programs at a time either.

Hey HDTVF! When did you move from CA? ;)

Though I had 259 nights one year in the Four Seasons, I never "officially" lived there.

Can you believe Fox cant even get the WS in HD correct? Unbelievable.

Can you believe Fox cant even get the WS in HD correct? Unbelievable.

Who really? It is QUITE BELEIVABLE. While you guys have been on here gripping and grumbling, I have been AT THE STATION, working on the problem to get YOUR game in HD. Thanks "for the love." I will remember it the next time.

I wish I had put money on that coming :D

Sorry Foxeng, if I came off as being harsh. Just a die hard Cards fan, so I was a bit upset. But they won, so it's all good.

Out of curiousity, what was the problem?

People like you who go out of their way to fix problems like this are much appreciated by many, including myself, even if I giped before.

While I agree with you 100% it would be great, you cannot alienate 75%+ of your base subs like that. Even HDTV families have other cable ready devices such as listed above.

I wish it would be cost effective to build a box that would install where the cable enters the residence, takes the digital channels and reconvert them to the old analog cable channels, so that the bandwidth could be reclaimed, without upsetting the subscriber base.

However, I am sure if it was close to economically feasable, it would have been done already. This would also solve other forthcoming problems - even though you would need all the boxes now and less everyday in the future - making them a bad investment.

Analog broadcast stations will alienate 100% of their analog viewing audience when the analog transmission cutoff date happens. Viewers of OTA broadcast will HAVE to get a digital set top box to recieve SDTV or HDTV OTA digitally. Shutting off analog cable would be the same thing, however, the cable companies do have SD STB's available cheaply and keeping analog transmission of basic tier on cable will not be as bad as the total analog OTA cutoff.

Most people want to use the TIVO with its menus and push a button to record - not set up an extra link to also change channels on a digital cable box etc. Guess you can't record 2 programs at a time either.
I DO use the TiVo with its menus and everything, just like I would without the cable box. TiVo comes with an IR out to repeat commands to a cable box, so there's no extra link. No, I can't record 2 programs at once because it's an older single tuner TiVo, but you can certainly get S2 dual tuners. So there's really nothing about telemike's idea that wouldn't work for TiVo. The only thing that will throw TiVo is the SDV, 2-way communication stuff until CC2 or OCAP comes along.

Who really? It is QUITE BELEIVABLE. While you guys have been on here gripping and grumbling, I have been AT THE STATION, working on the problem to get YOUR game in HD. Thanks "for the love." I will remember it the next time.

Sorry Charles, I figured some rookie was running that show last night.

Has anyone noticed that CBS HD feed was lost for a few minutes between Jeopardy and NCIS last night? I saw the goodnight screen from Hollywood and then LOST SIGNAL on the screen for a few minutes before it kicked back on past 8:00pm with the end of Jeopardy.....Happened the week before too. Might have to do with the Jeopardy and the network feed?

Who really? It is QUITE BELEIVABLE. While you guys have been on here gripping and grumbling, I have been AT THE STATION, working on the problem to get YOUR game in HD. Thanks "for the love." I will remember it the next time.

I really don't care if you "remember it next time" or not. I guess if you don't want to be at the station fixing it then either get it right the first time or find a different job.
Consumers dont care what happens behind the scenes, they just want to be able to turn on their TV and watch the WS or any other HD show as it's supposed to be broadcast.

I really don't care if you "remember it next time" or not. I guess if you don't want to be at the station fixing it then either get it right the first time or find a differenct job.
Consumers dont care what happens behind the scenes, they just want to be able to turn on their TV and watch the WS or any other HD show as it's supposed to be broadcast.

ouch!

I just hate the FCC mandatory weather/disaster alerts and eveything switches to SD.

Has anyone noticed that CBS HD feed was lost for a few minutes between Jeopardy and NCIS last night? I saw the goodnight screen from Hollywood and then LOST SIGNAL on the screen for a few minutes before it kicked back on past 8:00pm with the end of Jeopardy.....Happened the week before too. Might have to do with the Jeopardy and the network feed?

Telemike,

I saw the same thing. At first I thought that my projector was going crazy, then I realized it was Channel 2.

I really don't care if you "remember it next time" or not. I guess if you don't want to be at the station fixing it then either get it right the first time or find a different job.
Consumers dont care what happens behind the scenes, they just want to be able to turn on their TV and watch the WS or any other HD show as it's supposed to be broadcast.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but this post was totally uncalled for. foxeng has been incredibly responsive and helpful to everyone on this forum. So treating him with such blatant disrespect shows how selfish and immature you are. I suggest a retraction and apology or you might find yourself on everyone's ignore list here and then you can complain to dead web space next time.

Sorry, catdaddy, but that's over the line. You obviously weren't around here or weren't paying attention the past 3 years while WGHP went over to digital/HDTV, but I assure you that none of us would have much of the knowledge of broadcast HDTV without the generous posts of foxeng.

BTW, a big THANK-YOU to foxeng for taking the time out of all you do for WGHP to keep us in the loop.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but this post was totally uncalled for. foxeng has been incredibly responsive and helpful to everyone on this forum. So treating him with such blatant disrespect shows how selfish and immature you are. I suggest a retraction and apology or you might find yourself on everyone's ignore list here and then you can complain to dead web space next time.


I did not address my original complaint about the WS to Foxeng. I didnt even know if it was a local issue or a national one. My point stands that consumers don't care why it isnt being broadcast in HD. They just want it to work. Do you really think that those that turned on their HD sets last night were concerned WHY it wasnt in HD? No they were just saying 'why the hell isnt the WS in HD!'.
99.99% of the Greensboro market doesn't even know that this forum exists, they just want their HD to work.

I DO use the TiVo with its menus and everything, just like I would without the cable box. TiVo comes with an IR out to repeat commands to a cable box, so there's no extra link. No, I can't record 2 programs at once because it's an older single tuner TiVo, but you can certainly get S2 dual tuners. So there's really nothing about telemike's idea that wouldn't work for TiVo. The only thing that will throw TiVo is the SDV, 2-way communication stuff until CC2 or OCAP comes along.


A S2 with dual tuners would need 2 digital boxes with 2 IR repeaters. Now you are really running the monthly bill up to TWC. What is the cost? Somewhere around $5-$7 to TIVO a month and $6 or so to TWC per box x2 - and do they charge extra for each digital connection in the triad as well? You're up over $20 if so per month for that TIVO unit, not to mention that SA boxes cannot change remote control codes - so you have to isolate the 2 boxes from each other,

I am SURE that won't piss people off, lol.

Analog broadcast stations will alienate 100% of their analog viewing audience when the analog transmission cutoff date happens. Viewers of OTA broadcast will HAVE to get a digital set top box to recieve SDTV or HDTV OTA digitally. Shutting off analog cable would be the same thing, however, the cable companies do have SD STB's available cheaply and keeping analog transmission of basic tier on cable will not be as bad as the total analog OTA cutoff.

Ummmm....just because OTA analog is going away, that doesn't mean cable has to go 100% digital.

I did not address my original complaint about the WS to Foxeng. I didnt even know if it was a local issue or a national one. My point stands that consumers don't care why it isnt being broadcast in HD. They just want it to work. Do you really think that those that turned on their HD sets last night were concerned WHY it wasnt in HD? No they were just saying 'why the hell isnt the WS in HD!'.
99.99% of the Greensboro market doesn't even know that this forum exists, they just want their HD to work.

Actually with the noise in the picture from the network, there probably would have been complaints no matter what happened.

Considering that an Engineer in the BOC of CBS rewound the opening of The Unit live on the air and restarted it - it wasn't a stellar night for HD operation at the networks :(.

I did not address my original complaint about the WS to Foxeng. I didnt even know if it was a local issue or a national one. My point stands that consumers don't care why it isnt being broadcast in HD. They just want it to work. Do you really think that those that turned on their HD sets last night were concerned WHY it wasnt in HD? No they were just saying 'why the hell isnt the WS in HD!'.
99.99% of the Greensboro market doesn't even know that this forum exists, they just want their HD to work.
It wasn't your "original complaint" that was the problem, it was your follow up to it that was so rude.

The world doesn't revolve around you and the World Series. Anyone who's been around this forum should know that foxeng is extremely diligent and obviously concerned about his station having things done the best way that they can. The fact that there was a problem is part of life. Learn to deal with it without taking it out on the people who are doing their best to fix it.

Ummmm....just because OTA analog is going away, that doesn't mean cable has to go 100% digital.
It doesn't? Doesn't the analog frequency spectrum have to be returned to the gubment to auction off?

Actually with the noise in the picture from the network, there probably would have been complaints no matter what happened.

Considering that an Engineer in the BOC of CBS rewound the opening of The Unit live on the air and restarted it - it wasn't a stellar night for HD operation at the networks :(.

I've read complaints about last night's World Series PQ from other forums in different markets around the US. So you right, it wasn't a great night for HD. Maybe we'll have better luck tonight. And if we don't, I promise not to complain. :)

Stay tuned...

It wasn't your "original complaint" that was the problem, it was your follow up to it that was so rude.

The world doesn't revolve around you and the World Series. Anyone who's been around this forum should know that foxeng is extremely diligent and obviously concerned about his station having things done the best way that they can. The fact that there was a problem is part of life. Learn to deal with it without taking it out on the people who are doing their best to fix it.

The last time I checked I never said nor implied that anything revolved around me.
Foxeng brougnt me into the discussion by complaining about doing his job.
As I said, if he doesnt like his job he should get a different one or prevent the problem from occuring in the first place.
And as for being rude you should examine your own posts before complaining about mine.

I am SURE that won't piss people off, lol.
People are going to get pissed off over the next couple of years because things are going to change, no matter what. They will either have to adapt or stay pissed off.

Some of us are pissed off because the transition isn't moving fast enough, some because it's moving too fast for them. The entire consumer electronics industry and technology has hit the logarithmic part of the curve where things will change faster and more often. The kids are OK with that, they're growing up with it. The older generation is fighting it tooth and nail.

It is what it is, but the bus is leaving the station.

The problem with that is you immediately have made everyone's High Cost Picture in Picture, VCR, DVR with Tuner Built In, TIVO, PCI/USB TV Capture device obsolete and they will no longer work.

Even on my HDTV, I still will use the PIP daily, which would become obsolete with the change you suggest.

While I agree with you 100% it would be great, you cannot alienate 75%+ of your base subs like that. Even HDTV families have other cable ready devices such as listed above.

I wish it would be cost effective to build a box that would install where the cable enters the residence, takes the digital channels and reconvert them to the old analog cable channels, so that the bandwidth could be reclaimed, without upsetting the subscriber base.

However, I am sure if it was close to economically feasable, it would have been done already. This would also solve other forthcoming problems - even though you would need all the boxes now and less everyday in the future - making them a bad investment.

I would think that most people who invested in a TIVO unit also already subscribe to digital tier. Furthermore features like PIP are not used very much by most TV viewers. They are even now being left out of some newer TV's.

It doesn't? Doesn't the analog frequency spectrum have to be returned to the gubment to auction off?The frequencies used by current analog VHF OTA transmitters will be auctioned off to attempt to balance the national debt... (good luck) However, the usage of those same frequencies in the cable between Time Warner and your home are not controlled by the mandate to convert to digital.

The cable companies will be very happy to continue to transmit a basic tier of local programming using current analog signals on their cable. They will connect thousands of new subscribers who do not have a digital tuner, and do not have a set-top box to their systems, so they can continue to use their analog tuners in their TVs and VCRs, for a nice monthly fee :mad: .

Everyone will be faced with a dilemma... use cable boxes, digital OTA boxes, digital satellite service, or replace their TV and VCRs with ones with a digital tuner. Those following this thread will be in reasonable shape, and be equipped to watch their favorite program. But many will still have equipment that will be made entirely obsolete. (My 4" Sony Watchman portable TV, with its analog tuner, will be useless unless connected to analog cable or a set-top-box. That box makes it a bit less portable :( ) The Radio-Shacks, Best-Buy's, Circuit-Citys, and other electronic retailers will make record profits in the next few years... (mostly on very high margin cables and service plans sold with millions of new digital TVs :D )

Joe L.

It doesn't? Doesn't the analog frequency spectrum have to be returned to the gubment to auction off?

Cable is a closed system so its not transmitting on the open airways.

Furthermore, remember that the UHF frequencies do not match up with the Cable QAM frequencies above Channel 13.

I think you are misinterpreting his statement. He might have been annoyed about
trying to correct the HD feed problem, but based on all of his posts, I would say that
it is safe to say that the he does enjoy his job. If he didn't, I doubt we would get
all the feedback from him. I don't think it is fair to blame WGHP or Fox national, they
are very much aware of what consumers expect and I'm sure they lose money when
those expections are not met. Maybe someone should complain to the FCC that
they haven't handled the digital mandate in the most efficient manner.

C Snyder



The last time I checked I never said nor implied that anything revolved around me.
Foxeng brougnt me into the discussion by complaining about doing his job.
As I said, if he doesnt like his job he should get a different one or prevent the problem from occuring in the first place.
And as for being rude you should examine your own posts before complaining about mine.

The last time I checked I never said nor implied that anything revolved around me.
Yes, you did.

Foxeng brougnt me into the discussion by complaining about doing his job.
No, he didn't.


As I said, if he doesnt like his job he should get a different one or prevent the problem from occuring in the first place.
And as you've been told already (which you obviously couldn't deduce from reading this forum), we know he does like his job and he works very hard at it. Perhaps if you don't like the service, YOU are the one who should change providers. Get a satellite and pick up another feed like Milchad did.


And as for being rude you should examine your own posts before complaining about mine.
I've examined my posts. I haven't been rude to anyone in this thread. But I like the old Pee Wee Herman defense, good one :)

I think you are misinterpreting his statement. He might have been annoyed about
trying to correct the HD feed problem...
I can't speak for him, but I bet that he was annoyed that while folks here were complaining about not being able to watch it in HD, he wasn't getting to watch it at all because he was having to fix the problem. Just my guess.

The frequencies used by current analog VHF OTA transmitters will be auctioned off to attempt to balance the national debt... (good luck) However, the usage of those same frequencies in the cable between Time Warner and your home are not controlled by the mandate to convert to digital.



The cable companies will be very happy to continue to transmit a basic tier of local programming using current analog signals on their cable. They will connect thousands of new subscribers who do not have a digital tuner, and do not have a set-top box to their systems, so they can continue to use their analog tuners in their TVs and VCRs, for a nice monthly fee :mad: .

But don't the analog frequencies take up much more bandwidth? Would TWC really do that since they're trying so hard to conserve bandwidth?

You guys are fortunate that this thread has local broadcast engineers willing to post. They are professionals and deserve to be respected as such. I appreciate having the source of expert information and the open line of communication. Let’s hope that one jerk doesn’t spoil it for all of us.

Thank you to the people in this thread who have common sense and good reasoning. I would put our record of providing HD when it is available up against ANY station.

But no station is immune from problems with equipment. Nothing is 100%. In this case, it was equipment that is owned by FOX, not WGHP and as such we do not have access to the inner workings and we have to have FOX Network and in this case the manufacturer as well involved to work out any issues. If I didn't have the dedication to my job, I could have just not worried about why it wasn't in HD until today as many stations do when it comes to the digital side. The game was available in SD, it was on the air and no one missed a single play of the game. Would I have rather the whole game have been in HD? Absolutely. But we want to do more for the viewer and therefore we do more when we can. That is why I interrupted my night at home to go back to work to see what the situation was and to get the HD feed back on the air, if possible, before the game was over so our digital viewers could enjoy as much of the game in HD as possible.

I am sure catdady, you would not approve or accept the type of behavior you have exhibited to me if it was directed at you. Why should I just because I work in television? We in broadcasting put up with a lot of crap from viewers. It comes with the territory. But there is a limit. So when someone who has no idea what they are talking about starts spouting off with vitriol language directed at me, I am under no obligation to them, professionally or personally. Had you sir, called the station and treated me on the phone like you have here, I would have hung up on you. No where in my job description does it say I have to take abuse of any kind from anyone; fellow employees or viewers.

All I can say is I would like to have you as a viewer, but if it means as a viewer you think you have the right to act any way you like towards me or my fellow employees, then I would rather not have you as a viewer.

I will speak no further on the subject.

All I can say is WOW!!

I am gone for a few days and all Hell breaks loose. I have not posted near as many times as many of you, however I have been reading this thread now for a while and have to say that I AM VERY SHOCKED at the postings aimed at Foxeng.

I want to say sorry on behalf of the whole board, you should not have to endure that. We all know how dedicated and helpful you have been to all.

I must say, I am ashamed and embarrased for catdaddy...

All I can say is WOW!!

I am gone for a few days and all Hell breaks loose. I have not posted near as many times as many of you, however I have been reading this thread now for a while and have to say that I AM VERY SHOCKED at the postings aimed at Foxeng.

I want to say sorry on behalf of the whole board, you should not have to endure that. We all know how dedicated and helpful you have been to all.

I must say, I am ashamed and embarrased for catdaddy...
Amen, brother!

But don't the analog frequencies take up much more bandwidth? Would TWC really do that since they're trying so hard to conserve bandwidth?Yes, TWC can probably fit 6 or more digital channels in the bandwidth used by a single analog channel. That is why I said they would probably keep a basic tier of analog channels. That might be 2 through 13, or 2 through 40, or 2 through ???. I don't know how many "analog" channels will remain... TWC has not made any public announcement I'm aware of.

I really expect cable companies to take advantage of the mass hysteria that will accompany the shut-off of off-the-air stations and scale their analog back to only a basic tier of 2 through 13. This would be able to handle most of the local off-the-air stations and allow them to add lots of new subscribers who do not want to, or cannot afford to purchase a new digital TV or multiple set-top ATSC tuners. They will force cable boxes on the rest of us wanting additional channels.

Joe L.

Yes, TWC can probably fit 6 or more digital channels in the bandwidth used by a single analog channel. That is why I said they would probably keep a basic tier of analog channels. That might be 2 through 13, or 2 through 40, or 2 through ???. I don't know how many "analog" channels will remain... TWC has not made any public announcement I'm aware of.

I really expect cable companies to take advantage of the mass hysteria that will accompany the shut-off of off-the-air stations and scale their analog back to only a basic tier of 2 through 13. This would be able to handle most of the local off-the-air stations and allow them to add lots of new subscribers who do not want to, or cannot afford to purchase a new digital TV or multiple set-top ATSC tuners. They will force cable boxes on the rest of us wanting additional channels.

Joe L.

The only part of this that I can't get my arms around is the back and forth debate - between TV and Cable - about not wanting them to down rez their signal.... because, obviously, you can't take a 720p signal or 1080i signal and NOT down rez it to make it if you want it to appear on a 480i set....and all the changes in positions and back and forth have totally got me lost on where we REALLY are at right now, lol. I figure it will change a few more times between now and then anyway.

So if all the OTA put out in 2009 are 720p or 1080i on the HD Channel, you must down rez it to get it on a 480i set....so this will be interesting to see how these positions play out.

Has anyone noticed that CBS HD feed was lost for a few minutes between Jeopardy and NCIS last night? I saw the goodnight screen from Hollywood and then LOST SIGNAL on the screen for a few minutes before it kicked back on past 8:00pm with the end of Jeopardy.....Happened the week before too. Might have to do with the Jeopardy and the network feed?
Sorry about that folks. We have received several reports similar to this. New and conplicated procedures create the oppurtunity for "mistakes". As of yesterday this problem has been addressed. I hope and believe that it is cured. Thanks everyone for any reports good or bad. Rickey.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOve the CBS HD

The only part of this that I can't get my arms around is the back and forth debate - between TV and Cable - about not wanting them to down rez their signal.... because, obviously, you can't take a 720p signal or 1080i signal and NOT down rez it to make it if you want it to appear on a 480i set....and all the changes in positions and back and forth have totally got me lost on where we REALLY are at right now, lol. I figure it will change a few more times between now and then anyway.

So if all the OTA put out in 2009 are 720p or 1080i on the HD Channel, you must down rez it to get it on a 480i set....so this will be interesting to see how these positions play out.
This is pure speculation on my part: It would possibly make sense to do only the HD feed plus any sub-channels. All cable viewers would then need a box which would reduce the format to 480p (NTSC) for SDTV viewers. Or maybe with advanced tuners in HD devices only the SDTV viewers would need boxes? At any rate I believe we are headed toward an all digital world in this respect and that "legacy"products will fall away rather quickly.

5.1 update: We have the Dolby(tm) Digital equipment! A seamless install is preferred by all concerned. Acheiveing this however is a difficult matter. And depending on it's final configuration we may need an additional processor. The really complicated matter in this install is that apparently no other broadcaster has the same equipment configuration as us. And we are somewhat uncertain as to how the new equipment will interact with the old. So if there is some audio "weirdness" in the next few days I personally apologize in advance. Rickey

With all the new 1080p capable TVs coming out, I was wondering whether or not it was possible to transmit 1080p OTA? Other ways I know of are Blu-Ray DVD, HD-DVD, and desktop computers with a good video card. Are there any other ways to receive 1080p content? With all the bandwidth problems that cable and satellite have, it doesn't look like we'll be getting any 1080p content from those sources anytime soon, but who knows?

Rickey,

Just want to let you know that, except for the NCIS glitch, the ch 2.1 HD we receive has been excellent. Rock solid signal here and no lip sync issues. Much better that the last market where we lived. We also enjoy Jeopardy in HD most evenings.

I've been watching OTA HD for a while with a Samsung tuner, but I just got my Tivo S3 and I've been playing around with it. Since no one can pick up WCWG (and the wife wants Gilmore Girls), I thought I might try to find it on QAM from Time-Warner. No luck, but I found some other stations. I can't find any other lists of QAM channels, so here goes for anyone who is interested:

The forum won't let me post it, it says I have URLs or image calls in the post, which I don't. Let me post pad up to 5 then post the QAM list.

Time-Warner Winston-Salem QAM-in-the-clear channels as of 10/26/06

82-1 WXII NBC HD
82-2 WXII Weather 24
82-3 UNC TV
82-4 UNC HD
82-5 UNC KD
87-11 Discovery HD
88-10 Music
88-45 Music
89-1 Showtime ? SHO.COM
90-4 PPV movie preview channel
94-8 Spanish sports channel?
102-1 Univision no audio

The last time I checked, the following should be available in Forsyth (maybe with the exception of TNT HD):

UNCTV Digital
UNCHD
UNCKD Kids
UNCED Education
UNCNC
WGHP HD
WFMY HD
WFMY True View 2
WXII HD
WXII Weather Plus
Discovery HD Theater
TNT HD

I am not sure why you are not picking up all the locals. Anything in addition I would
consider just a lucky bonus.

C Snyder


Time-Warner Winston-Salem QAM-in-the-clear channels as of 10/26/06

82-1 WXII NBC HD
82-2 WXII Weather 24
82-3 UNC TV
82-4 UNC HD
82-5 UNC KD
87-11 Discovery HD
88-10 Music
88-45 Music
89-1 Showtime ? SHO.COM
90-4 PPV movie preview channel
94-8 Spanish sports channel?
102-1 Univision no audio

With all the new 1080p capable TVs coming out, I was wondering whether or not it was possible to transmit 1080p OTA? Other ways I know of are Blu-Ray DVD, HD-DVD, and desktop computers with a good video card. Are there any other ways to receive 1080p content? With all the bandwidth problems that cable and satellite have, it doesn't look like we'll be getting any 1080p content from those sources anytime soon, but who knows?

The entire broadcast industry has and is heavily investing in digital 1080i or 720p equipment as part of the ATSC standard. 1080p is not part of the broadcast standard. It'll probably be a few years before local markets can afford HD equipment to put weather alerts in HD so they don't have to switch to an SD feed to show the emergency alerts the FCC requires them to do.

1080p broadcast won't happen. Who knows what the next digital standard will be which will probably be many many years.

Time Warner Cable - Lexington Clear Qam signals

82-1 WXII NBC in HD
82-2 WXII weather
82-3 UNC TV
82-4 UNC HD
82-5 UNC KD
87-11 Discovery HD
88-10 Music
88-45 Music
89-1 Showtime Pacific
94-8 HBO Latino
100-210 TLC
102-131 Telemundo
115-4 ABC 45 in SD
115-414 News 14 Carolina
115-519 Weather Channel Lexington
116-1 WEMY CBS in HD
116-2 WEMY weather
116-3 WGHP Fox in HD
116-6 UNC ED
116-7 UNC NC

5.1 update: We have the Dolby(tm) Digital equipment! A seamless install is preferred by all concerned. Acheiveing this however is a difficult matter. And depending on it's final configuration we may need an additional processor. The really complicated matter in this install is that apparently no other broadcaster has the same equipment configuration as us. And we are somewhat uncertain as to how the new equipment will interact with the old. So if there is some audio "weirdness" in the next few days I personally apologize in advance. Rickey
Awesome news! Not that your current sound is not good, but I'll switch over to the CBS affiliate out of Roanoke during football games and Wow, what a difference. CBS has awesome 5.1 for sports. Unfortunately my 6.3 update on my HD DirecTiVo has pretty much hosed my 5.1 :( I'm still going back and forth, depending on how much aggravation I can take before having to switch back over to LPCM. I'll certainly keep an eye on WFMY for the audio updates. Thanks for keeping us all up to date on the status of things!

Great news, Rickey! Now it's 5.1 on all the channels broadcasting major sports locally!

Now if we could only get Raycom to pony up some cash to do HD productions and then you guys get ACC games back from the worst looking channel in the known universe, and all will be right in the world.

I admit it, I'm never satisfied and thinking about going after more DTV channels. My question is this. Is it possible for me to combine an OTA antenna and the cable that feeds my cable modem? Keep in mind that I don't use cable to watch TV, I just use it for the internet. Will I run into any frequency overlap issues with what the antenna picks up and what is currently being transmitted on the Time Warner coax line? If this works, it will keep me from having to run yet another line into my junction box.

I admit it, I'm never satisfied and thinking about going after more DTV channels. My question is this. Is it possible for me to combine an OTA antenna and the cable that feeds my cable modem? Keep in mind that I don't use cable to watch TV, I just use it for the internet. Will I run into any frequency overlap issues with what the antenna picks up and what is currently being transmitted on the Time Warner coax line? If this works, it will keep me from having to run yet another line into my junction box.


2-13 are the same - as are a few others...for example, cable has the ability to use some of the 20 Mhz in the FM band as well (QAM Channels 95-97) - I don't know if TWC Triad uses these or not.

Others are in the Aeronautical band (QAM Channels 14-16, 24-53, 98-99) so you open the closed cable system up to all kinds of inteference issues.

All the Cable QAM Frequencies are here (http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/cable/cab_rout/cr72hig/ub72fqcy.htm#wp1018612) if you are so inclined.

Bottom line, you need 2 seperate RG6 runs to the HDTV.

Time-Warner Winston-Salem QAM-in-the-clear channels as of 10/26/06

82-1 WXII NBC HD
82-2 WXII Weather 24
82-3 UNC TV
82-4 UNC HD
82-5 UNC KD
87-11 Discovery HD
88-10 Music
88-45 Music
89-1 Showtime ? SHO.COM
90-4 PPV movie preview channel
94-8 Spanish sports channel?
102-1 Univision no audio

That's odd... I'm in WS also, and here's what shows up on my tv:

82-1 UNC TV
82-2 UNC KD
82-3 WXII Weather
82-4 UNC HD
82-5 WXII NBC HD
87-2 Discovery HD
88-5 Music
88-49 Music
89-1 Showtime
94-5 HBO in Spanish
100-12 TLC
102-7 Univision no audio
116-1 Fox HD
116-2 CBS HD
116-3 WFMY Weather
116-4 UNC ED
116-5 UNC NC

Also,
112-1 24 hour ads for some NBA packagee
113-7 movie ads

and several tv guide channels

Do different tv's assign different channel numbers? Mine is a Westinghouse 32W4, if that makes any difference.

The entire broadcast industry has and is heavily investing in digital 1080i or 720p equipment as part of the ATSC standard. 1080p is not part of the broadcast standard. It'll probably be a few years before local markets can afford HD equipment to put weather alerts in HD so they don't have to switch to an SD feed to show the emergency alerts the FCC requires them to do.

1080p broadcast won't happen. Who knows what the next digital standard will be which will probably be many many years.

1080p 60 fields per second OTA (in a 6Mhz bandwidth) is theoretically possible with MPEG4 encoding. MPEG2 is the current standard used and does allow for 1080p 30 or 24 fields per second although apparently not currently used.
Follow this link for a table and some technical descriptions of the 18 possible formats allowed by the ATSC standard. http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

As I currently understand it all OTA HDTV receivers are required to be compatable
with all 18 formats. And yes at present it would cost broadcasters a lot of money to step up to 1080p. Keep in mind however that the CBS feed as it comes off the sat receiver is uncompressed 4.2.2 digital at 1.43 Gb per second. So that particular signal will not be a limiting factor. And when MPEG2 is through with it's compression magic the 1.43 Gb per sec is squeezed down to 19.39 Mb per sec or less and still the images are awesome. MPEG4 offers approximately twice the compression ratio as MPEG2 (2 HD's in the same bandwidth)at the same picture quality or double the picture quality(1080p 60) in the same bandwidth.

I have witnessed in a few years time the substantial decrease in prices for HD broadcast equipment. And given that broadcasters expect to eventually make a profit from HD; there should be capital available for 1080p (wishful thinking on my part?). The entire plant will probably need to be built HD 4.2.2 first though. Time and money those are the elements required to make these things happen. A healthy dose of optimism and imagination on the part of corporate level folks wont hurt either. Please stay tuned. Rickey.

There won't be OTA MPEG4 broadcasting for decades to come. You would render ever ATSC tuner in the market a boat anchor.

Do I forsee TV stations giving a higher bitrate MPEG4 feed to cable and DBS providers? Absolutely.

There won't be OTA MPEG4 broadcasting for decades to come. You would render ever ATSC tuner in the market a boat anchor.

Do I forsee TV stations giving a higher bitrate MPEG4 feed to cable and DBS providers? Absolutely.

The migration path would be a dual mode transmission and dual mode receivers. It was rumoured that USDTV (now defunct?) was doing something like that. Of course this is just slightly educated dreaming on my part.

1080p 30 is possible without MPEG4 and neither are likely in the near term, it is however nice to dream.

In adjusting the various parameters involved in MPEG encoding it becomes blatantly obvious that there are numerous ways to make the signal less than optimum. Which constantly leaves me wondering if signals are really at optimum.
Rickey.

Did anyone watch the Clemson/Va Tech game on ESPN-HD last night on Time Warner? That was probably the worst compression artifacting I've ever seen from TWC. Usually it's just been the "crawling grass", but last night it was clearly evident even on the studio shots of the announcers. Looked terrible.

Just wondering if anyone else is noticing this.

Did anyone watch the Clemson/Va Tech game on ESPN-HD last night on Time Warner? That was probably the worst compression artifacting I've ever seen from TWC. Usually it's just been the "crawling grass", but last night it was clearly evident even on the studio shots of the announcers. Looked terrible.

Just wondering if anyone else is noticing this.

I checked out some of the game last night on D* and it looked pretty darn good. I know you were looking for a reply from another TWC customer, but I at least can help you narrow down your suspects.

Thanks. Yeah, I was pretty sure it was TWC compressing/rate shaping/whatever the signal. I'm not sure what's going on lately, the PQ on the HD seems to be degrading, hoping someone else with TWC can confirm to make sure it's not something in my system.

Can anyone capture the bitrates or frame size TWC is sending out?

The migration path would be a dual mode transmission and dual mode receivers. It was rumoured that USDTV (now defunct?) was doing something like that. Of course this is just slightly educated dreaming on my part.

1080p 30 is possible without MPEG4 and neither are likely in the near term, it is however nice to dream.

In adjusting the various parameters involved in MPEG encoding it becomes blatantly obvious that there are numerous ways to make the signal less than optimum. Which constantly leaves me wondering if signals are really at optimum.
Rickey.


I have discussed this for several years with a number of group heads - and now they are beginning to really realize how true it is - the biggest flaw with ATSC is the inability to change the codec as improvements were made. For example, XM and Sirius have the ability to pushout a new codec as advances are made - and XM has already changed once - about a year after it went live.

ATSC made no provision.

Unfortunately, IBOC was no smarter for HD Radio - its only upgradable via a firmware update.

Can anyone capture the bitrates or frame size TWC is sending out?

The people most likely to be able to request and actually obtain this information from TWC would be the Engineers that frequent this thread.

I was able to get a 24 hour rate on Universal-HD off the IRD from a system in another market knowing the people at the NOC (though I did not ask them to measure what they were sending out on the system), so it can be done if you have the right connections.

As the locals are in the clear, those should be easy to capture and compare to the OTA signal.

I watched the game last night on TWC and I also thought it looked horrible. I also thought at least one of the cameras wasn't an HD one due to the crazy SD outlines I saw on those over the field shots.

pwrmetal,
Are you seeing the blocking/crawling all over the place like I am?

Yes. The biggest issue I see with ESPN football is the infamous swimming grass. I think it's more cable's fault than ESPN, because ABC football (which is of course ESPN) always looks much better OTA. And, ESPN looked way better last year. Of course there are plenty of people in the main HD Programming forum with D* and E* complaining about ESPN HD football this year, so who knows??

I still say that the locals still look very good on TWC in HD, but there are many problems with the other channels.

Oklahoma vs Missouri game on ABC-45 is suppose to be in HD, but isn't.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/espntv/topics/coveragemaps/map102806_12.jpg

Anybody in this area having problems picking up QAM Clear stuff over cable?

I am at a relative's home in Elon and they used to get everything HD, but now their display (TH42PX60U) is not picking up anything.
I found Ripe TV and NBC HD for about 20 minutes and then it lost it.

I checked the local in the clear QAM channels for Winston Salem and they were not found. They can get all the channels on their 8300 in the other room.

Anyone else being frustrated?

anyone having problems with 12.1 and 12.2 today? getting zero signal strength.

anyone having problems with 12.1 and 12.2 today? getting zero signal strength.
I'm seeing the same thing. I usually have no trouble getting 12.1

thanks for the response uncrules. you just saved me a bunch of troubleshooting time.

thanks for the response uncrules. you just saved me a bunch of troubleshooting time.
No problem.

It's a bad day for the local stations. With 12 and 45 having trouble, things aren't looking good. Maybe 2 will do better with it's HD football game today.

anyone having problems with 12.1 and 12.2 today? getting zero signal strength.

12.1 and 12.2 must be down right now. I'm getting 0% too. 26.1 (PBS) works fine which has towers in the same location, so it's not our antennas. This sucks because I'd like to be watching the race in HD on NBC.

12.1 and 12.2 are both back on the air now.

Edit: They are down again.

12.1 and 12.2 are both back on the air now.

Edit: They are down again.

Up and down up and down. It was like that last night too. Wonder if it's a wind issue?

Up and down up and down. It was like that last night too. Wonder if it's a wind issue?
It could be wind. Wind seems to be the biggest weather threat to OTA reception. However, when 12.1 is up, my signal strength on my H20 is 100%. With that being the case I figure I would be fairly immune to wind. I'm guessing there was some sort of technical issue.

ABC-45 is now in HD. I'm not sure when it happened but I think it was at least as late as the 4th quarter.

It could be wind. Wind seems to be the biggest weather threat to OTA reception. However, when 12.1 is up, my signal strength on my H20 is 100%. With that being the case I figure I would be fairly immune to wind. I'm guessing there was some sort of technical issue.

Let me ask you this... Now that it seems to be up, are you getting lots of drop-outs like I am? Normally I don't get many drop-outs on NBC, but I'm getting 3-4 every minute or so right now.

i'm getting the dropouts also.

This is what you guys need to realize with what you have seen in the last 5 days in this thread.

ATSC came along and all the sudden the Station Engineers had not 1 but 2 stations they had to deal with. 2 different program sources (or 3 with multichannels), another link to the transmitter, another transmitter to deal with (and in some cases - the second transmitter isn't even where the primary is).

So these guys have had to literally double their work to keep things going right. In most every case over the past few years, they didn't get more personnel to keep up with more facilities - in fact, many faced cutbacks.

And they didn't get 25%, 50% or 100% in their paycheck either when they doubled the number of "stations" they had to deal with.

So when there are issues - and Foxeng has to go to in to deal with the deal issue instead of enjoying the game like you guys - even if in SD - think about that.

Think about the other issues you are seeing above on the other channels.

Some posters have said in other threads, "don't they have some respect for what they put out?". Yes they do - but there is only so much one can do. I expect the Networks to deliver a perfect signal to the stations - I cannot excuse anything from them.

However, I know what the guys in on the local level are going through - and if they didn't have any pride in what they were doing, they wouldn't go in to try and fix an HD Transmitter outside of 9-5 Monday-Friday - and could easily say, they can watch it in SD - not that many are watching in HD.

So, they do have some pride - but they are being asked to do more and more - for no additional compensation - quite frankly, with new technology, that you must be on top of - not the stuff that has been around for years.

And we all know **** happens at the worst possible time. And it happens to every station. So don't think that these guys don't care. If they didn't they wouldnt be on line here to see what you think (you have no idea how many markets have engineers that don't care about what the viewers are seeing - and in many cases - its because it really is a problem at the viewers place) but give the guys here credit for what they do.

Because they aren't getting fat wallets out of it.

It would appear that our little broadcast market is world famous.

I came across a web site totally by accident and found this picture:

http://www.wabweb.net/radio/images/HighPoint4Towers.jpg

The web site shows pictures of all of the big towers in our market and put them on his broadcasting web site. It is German but here is a url with Google translations: http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://members.aon.at/wabweb/frames/usf.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522wghp%2Bdt%2522%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr %3D%26sa%3DN
Here is the native language url http://members.aon.at/wabweb/frames/usf.htm

I was able to contact this gentleman who runs this site and he is a mechanical engineer who has a client at a chemical plant north of Greensboro and he makes frequent trips here. As a matter of fact he is here now and I have invited him for a tour but I haven't heard from him.

You never know about this "internet thing."

Let me ask you this... Now that it seems to be up, are you getting lots of drop-outs like I am? Normally I don't get many drop-outs on NBC, but I'm getting 3-4 every minute or so right now.
I didn't watch the race non-stop but I didn't have anymore dropouts during the times I was watching. My signal was going from about 100% to 94% and back. However, once the Tar Heels came on ESPNU at 3:30 I didn't watch the race for extended periods of time. I occasionally flipped over to see how the race was going.

I wonder if anybody who has TWC had the same problem. If they did then it wouldn't have been a wind problem.

I didn't watch the race non-stop but I didn't have anymore dropouts during the times I was watching. My signal was going from about 100% to 94% and back. However, once the Tar Heels came on ESPNU at 3:30 I didn't watch the race for extended periods of time. I occasionally flipped over to see how the race was going.

I wonder if anybody who has TWC had the same problem. If they did then it wouldn't have been a wind problem.

From my personal experience, PBS normally doesn't come in as good as NBC and PBS had zero dropouts while NBC had several today. That to me was a little strange because it normally takes a serious storm to drop NBC and today is was dropping like crazy. It's hard to know what the actual problem was.

It could be wind. Wind seems to be the biggest weather threat to OTA reception. However, when 12.1 is up, my signal strength on my H20 is 100%. With that being the case I figure I would be fairly immune to wind. I'm guessing there was some sort of technical issue.
I can't speak for ch 12 but I spent most of Saturday at Sauratown Mt. with power and generator problems. Wind did cause a few bumps in our power so we switched the generator on. Everything was fine for a couple of hours, then the generator power output crept up and tripped a breaker for the aural cabinet on the transmitter. No audio for about 45 min while I drove back to the site to troubleshoot and remedy the problem.

I've been complaining about TWC's ESPN-HD quality lately, but it seems like it's an ESPN problem, not a TWC problem. Both NFL games today on CBS and FOX via TWC looked good and had none of the compression issues I'm seeing on ESPN-HD. Sounds like satellite folks haven't been happy with ESPN-HD quality lately either. Just an FYI.

I see you're near my location. I'm on Crosstimbers Dr., off New Garden.

My appologees if this has been covered before. I have TWC cable, no OTA receiver. Can you provide any info regarding ABC HD availability? Will it be available on cable soon or should I get an OTA receiver? I've seen some comments suggesting the OTA signals might be turned off? Is that correct?

I'll try to search through the forum for more details. I just found this forum today.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum, GSO_HD! You'll learn more here on AVS than you will anywhere on the web. You're just 10 minutes away (make sure you eat at Phoenix if you don't already!).

The ABC situation is notorious around here, search this thread for "Sinclair" and you should find the posts discussing it. Basically, Time Warner and Sinclair (the owner of our local ABC) are at odds over reimbursement so TWC is not currently carrying the HD feed of ABC. It's actually better now that they even carry the SD digital channel.

I don't see it being resolved any time soon. I ended up just buying an antenna (a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna about the size of a shoe box is plenty, just point it down 220 south). I was using the digital tuner in my TV, but now I use a TiVo S3 which has an even better tuner in it.

I haven't kept up on OTA digital tuners, but I don't think they're easy to find, not much of a market for them. Does your TV set not have one?

I haven't kept up on OTA digital tuners, but I don't think they're easy to find, not much of a market for them. Does your TV set not have one?

I have a Mitsubishi rear projection set without a built-in tuner. The picture is really very good. Could be a bit brighter, but I haven't felt a need to replace it yet. I've looked on Ebay and see some Samsung OTA receivers that should work, but haven't tried it yet. I'm concerned about coverage because I have no cellular coverage in my home (or nearly none). I know that cellular is at much higher frequencies and therefore, poorer coverage, but I'm still concerned. There are lots of big oaks all around and I'm at a relatively low elevation compared to my surroundings.

Hmm, well, the antenna will only cost you $20 and you could return it if needed. I can pick up ABC and most all the others just fine with it inside even pointing right at a wall, so I think you'd be OK. If you only need that one station, then you can just aim that antenna right at it.

Welcome GSO_HS. OTA tuners are not that hard to find. They have them at Best Buy and Circuit City and they are readily available over the net.

Welcome, GSO_HD!

Take a look here to get your bearings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=611957
jacksonian is correct - you'll find a wealth of knowledge here on the forum.
I have a Mitsubishi rear projection set without a built-in tuner. The picture is really very good. Could be a bit brighter, but I haven't felt a need to replace it yet.

Have you had your set cleaned lately? It'll make it better than new! Mine is up for a cleaning next week.

I've been following this thread for a few weeks. Great info from everyone.

Has anyone heard an update on when D* might roll out locals in HDTV for G'boro?

I've been following this thread for a few weeks. Great info from everyone.

Has anyone heard an update on when D* might roll out locals in HDTV for G'boro?

I emailed D* and asked that very question and they said sometime this November. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that holds true.

It was up on their site for a while that Greensboro was going to happen in October. They have since changed it to say this fall. I guess I'm cautiously optimistic.

OTA question... I live near the Forsyth / Davidson County line and just for fun put my Winegard "batwing" antenna in my attic and pointed it to Charlotte. I didn't ecpect to get anything, but can get NBC most of the time and all the other channels don't lock but currently score 45-50% signal strength on my Samsung SIR-TS360. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the Channel Master 4228 to see if I can get the Charlotte locals to lock on the signal. Since the Winegard shows some promise, what kind of success do you think I might get out of a "real antenna" like the 4228? Also, does Dow Electronics have a decent return policy if it doesn't work out?

Thanks.

I've been following this thread for a few weeks. Great info from everyone.

Has anyone heard an update on when D* might roll out locals in HDTV for G'boro?
I was told "by December 1". Take it with a grain of salt.

I have heard that D* has a shortage of the new HR20 DVR and that has caused them to slow all of the HD LIL markets down until they can get more of a supply. It appears that is a BIG seller and people are reluctant to purchase HD LIL without it.

You can take that with a grain of salt also.

OTA question... I live near the Forsyth / Davidson County line and just for fun put my Winegard "batwing" antenna in my attic and pointed it to Charlotte. I didn't ecpect to get anything, but can get NBC most of the time and all the other channels don't lock but currently score 45-50% signal strength on my Samsung SIR-TS360. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the Channel Master 4228 to see if I can get the Charlotte locals to lock on the signal. Since the Winegard shows some promise, what kind of success do you think I might get out of a "real antenna" like the 4228? Also, does Dow Electronics have a decent return policy if it doesn't work out?

Thanks.

People who live in western Winston-Salem have reported receiving the Charlotte stations (big 4) with outside antennas so being further south should only help. If I remember correctly, channel 3, 9, 18 and 36 are all located near Dallas to the northwest of Charlotte.

I think Dow antenna sales are final, but I will make a deal with you if you can't return it. If you get the 4228 and it doesn't work, I will take it off you hands.

When I bought my 4228, Dow told me that since I didn't have an account with them, that I couldn't return it.

Can the 4228 be "broken down" to fit through attic openings and re-assembled once inside?

Can the 4228 be "broken down" to fit through attic openings and re-assembled once inside?
I did this a few weeks back. I just drilled out the rivets an got some bolts to reassemble it when I got it in my attic. It woks well.

Hi,
I live fairly close to your location (wallburg-H-P road)- have a 4228 with a rotor mounted on the roof and pick up almost all the Charlotte stations with a strong signal most of the time.

Hi,
I live fairly close to your location (wallburg-H-P road)- have a 4228 with a rotor mounted on the roof and pick up almost all the Charlotte stations with a strong signal most of the time.

Cool deal. It sounds like you are near the olde home place golf club. Do you use a pre-amp? I live in a neighborhood off of Hwy 150 (Peters Creek Parkway) I'm optimistic that I can get the Charlotte channels to come in with a good attic antenna. I used to have the Winegard Sensar on the roof with my dish, but since I moved the dish I took it down and stuck it in the attic. When it was on the roof, I could get all the Charlotte locals with good atmospheric conditions and some tweaking, but couldn't get all of them at the same time. I have approval from the wife to get (yet another) antenna. Is Dow open on the weekends or just Mon-Fri? Anybody know their hours?

Hi,
I live fairly close to your location (wallburg-H-P road)- have a 4228 with a rotor mounted on the roof and pick up almost all the Charlotte stations with a strong signal most of the time.

Am I correct that Feb 09 when analog goes dark most of the stations will move the digital transmitter back to the original VHF channel? So the UHF rooftop antenna only has to last a little over two years then I'll need a VHF antenna again.

OTA question... I live near the Forsyth / Davidson County line and just for fun put my Winegard "batwing" antenna in my attic and pointed it to Charlotte. I didn't ecpect to get anything, but can get NBC most of the time and all the other channels don't lock but currently score 45-50% signal strength on my Samsung SIR-TS360. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the Channel Master 4228 to see if I can get the Charlotte locals to lock on the signal. Since the Winegard shows some promise, what kind of success do you think I might get out of a "real antenna" like the 4228? Also, does Dow Electronics have a decent return policy if it doesn't work out?

Thanks.

The 4228 plus a preamp should get you the Charlotte locals without any difficulty. I'm near the Davidson/Forsyth line and have few dropouts. I prefer WBTV for my HDTV viewing due to their 5.1 DD, but I plan to switch back to WFMY once they get their 5.1 up and running. Do a search back through this forum and you will find a plethora of knowledge on how folks are pulling in the DT signals from adjacent markets.

Am I correct that Feb 09 when analog goes dark most of the stations will move the digital transmitter back to the original VHF channel? So the UHF rooftop antenna only has to last a little over two years then I'll need a VHF antenna again.

Actually you will need both.

Post Feb 17, 2009 the local Triad stations will be on the following channels:

WGHP - 8
WGPX - 14
WCWG - 19
WXLV - 29
WXII - 31
WUNL - 32
WMYV - 33
WLXI - 43
WFMY - 51

In Raleigh:

WTVD - 11
WNCN - 17
WUNC - 25
WLFL - 27
WRDC - 28
WRAL - 48
WRAZ - 49

In Charlotte:

WTVI - 11
WCNC - 22
WBTV - 23
WCCB - 27
WSOC - 34
WUNG - 44

And for those who get the Roanoke stations:

WBRA - 3
WSET - 13
WWCW - 20
WFXR - 17
WDBJ - 18
WSLS - 30

Actually you will need both.

Post Feb 17, 2009 the local Triad stations will be on the following channels:

WGHP - 8
WGPX - 14
WCWG - 19
WXLV - 29
WXII - 31
WUNL - 32
WMYV - 33
WLXI - 43
WFMY - 51

In Raleigh:

WTVD - 11
WNCN - 17
WUNC - 25
WLFL - 27
WRDC - 28
WRAL - 48
WRAZ - 49

In Charlotte:

WTVI - 11
WCNC - 22
WBTV - 23
WCCB - 27
WSOC - 34
WUNG - 44

Hmmmm....

No problem with 31, 32 and 33 in GSO? First market I can remember seeing with 3 in a row.

Charlotte and Raleigh on 11 and 27?

I assume WTVD is out 70 East on the other side of Raleigh with their analog site? Where is the Charlotte location?

Once again, CBS does not want HD viewers to see the opening of NCIS. My wife hates this lack of continuity.

Hmmmm....

No problem with 31, 32 and 33 in GSO? First market I can remember seeing with 3 in a row.

31 and 32 is on Sauratown Mt. 33 is at Level Cross. The FCC will allow first adjacents if they are co-located and if the first adjacent is more than X miles (I forget off the top of my head) from the other first adjacent.

Charlotte and Raleigh on 11 and 27?

Yep. WTVI-DT in Charlotte has a coverage area that just does cover the Charlotte area and doesn't make it to the Triad to protect WTVD (TV). ABC got a waiver for WTVD-DT 11. I think WLFL-DT has to be directional to protect WCCB since WCCB-DT is already on 27. WLFL-DT is currently on 57. WRDC-TV 28 is on 27 now and will go back to 28 allowing WLFL-DT to move to 27. It is part of a 6 way agreement that has WRAL-DT moving from 53 to 48 when WCTI-DT moves from 48 back to 12.

I assume WTVD is out 70 East on the other side of Raleigh with their analog site? Where is the Charlotte location?

WTVI-DT is located between Charlotte and Harrisburg on the northeast side of Charlotte. Their ERP is 2.2 kW.

Well guys, I got myself the famous CM 4228 today and stuck it in my attic. So far I have had mixed results. I'm currently watching CSI NY out of Charlotte which is good because the local CBS has all the high school fire coverage and isn't in HD. The 5.1 out of Charlotte sounds great BTW. Don't make too much fun of my questions. I have a "combiner" (reversed splitter) that hooks up all my antennas, then they run into a pre-amp which runs to my power injector, then the HD receiver. I don't really need a pre-amp for the antennas I have pointed at the local channels, but would like to utilize the preamp on the 4228 only. (Here's the dumb part). I know you can put a pre-amp on the other side of my "combiner", but I was wondering if there is any way possible I could use the pre-amp exclusively on the 4228, then combine the signals with my other antennas and send the coax to my power injector? The main reason I'd like this configuraition to work is that the 4228 works much better with just the pre-amp hooked directly to it with no other antennas or combiner. I know a rotor would be a good option, but that isn't possible because my attic is too small for the 4228 to turn without hitting the joists. I don't know if anything out there exists for what I am trying to do, but figured I'd ask.

I'm about 3 miles back towards HP from the golf course- I'v got a pre-amp and along with the rotor I pull in all the Charlotte stations most of the time very well. I bought my 4228 from Dow and I think they are only open M-F from 9-5.

One more question, is there such thing as a 100% (or close to 100%) efficient combiner? Maybe I could buy a better one to work with my current install.

Each splitter/combiner has some loss. You usually overcome the loss with some kind of amplification, usually a head of the splitter/combiner so you don't pick up unwanted noise. You also don't put a lot of amplification on either, just enough to make up the difference. I have found that a pre-amp of about 15 db is plenty for our area. The problem when you add more is the amplification tends be overloaded by unwanted signals like FM transmitters and other 2 way transmitters and then you receive nothing. Remember that a two port splitter/combiner loses 50% of the signal. This is expressed in db. Each 3 db equals 50% loss or if amplifying, doubles. A 3 port device loses 4.77 db and a 4 port device loses close to 6 db. 6 db is a 75% loss of signal or is a quadrupling of the signal if you are amplifying. You have to take all of those losses in to account when you are purchasing a pre-amp. Just some food for thought.

You might want to check out http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html for all kinds of ideas, suggestions and tips for installing antennas.

Some people have had success mounting the 4228 in the attic with a rotor by mounting the antenna upside down- pointing to the floor- do a search on the 4228 and attic installation and I believe you will find some pictures of such a mount.

Thanks for the info Charles. I finally have to face facts and admit I'm expecting way too much from my attic setup. My latest thinking is to put the 4228 on a mast outside with the pre-amp attached to it. I'll keep my current attic setup for locals and run the two leads to an A/B switch. I used to have this configuration with the Winegard Sensar and worked quite fine other than having to get up and switch the selector. Now the main obsticle in the way is the wife. I'm sure she'll be less then thrilled to find out I want to have an antenna attached to the roof of our house.

MilChad,

The 4228 isn't that big on the roof. Here is a picture of my 4228, along with my VERY BIG VHF only antenna on my roof. That is the one BELOW the 4228! :)

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/p2050021.jpg

Foxeng

I wanted to take a second to let you know, that the news broadcast looks great. Im watching it on TWC in Graham, on Digital 510 and the image quality is as good as WRAL in HD. I watched alot last night about the fire, as Im sure many people did. Keep up the great job with news coverage and broadcasting quality.

Andy

[QUOTE=foxeng]MilChad,

The 4228 isn't that big on the roof. Here is a picture of my 4228, along with my VERY BIG VHF only antenna on my roof. That is the one BELOW the 4228! :)



Sweet setup! The location I plan on putting it is where my phase III dish was. I have an extra long j mount that used to hold my dish that I can put back up and use as an antenna mast. Do you think my j mount will be too fat for the antenna's u bolts?

Thanks Andy. Really, we do try. That was a tough story to do.

We aren't HD like WRAL, but we do have a digital news studio and let it stay digital all of the way through from the cameras in the field to the studio cameras to the DTV transmitter and I think that helps the PQ a lot. Just my personal opinion! (and yeah, I am bias, just a little!! ;) )

[QUOTE=foxeng]MilChad,

The 4228 isn't that big on the roof. Here is a picture of my 4228, along with my VERY BIG VHF only antenna on my roof. That is the one BELOW the 4228! :)



Sweet setup! The location I plan on putting it is where my phase III dish was. I have an extra long j mount that used to hold my dish that I can put back up and use as an antenna mast. Do you think my j mount will be too fat for the antenna's u bolts?

I think I would use something a little stouter. Radio Shack makes a nice roof mount that can lie flush with any pitch roof.

Thanks Andy. Really, we do try. That was a tough story to do.

We aren't HD like WRAL, but we do have a digital news studio and let it stay digital all of the way through from the cameras in the field to the studio cameras to the DTV transmitter and I think that helps the PQ a lot. Just my personal opinion! (and yeah, I am bias, just a little!! ;) )All I can say is that the news really looks great.
I too noticed the vastly improved quality since I replaced the old 27" SD TV in my den with a 30" LG super-Slim CRT based HDTV.

My mental process went a bit like this.


Wow... great picture... the scaler in this new TV is doing a great job on the Fox news broadcast.
Wait a minute... I'm watching TWC cable... the cable box is doing the scaling....
But I'm tuned to the HD version of Fox News... It has to be upconverted from the news studio.
hey... the up-conversion must be occurring at the Fox Studio... TWC gets an HD feed. Great work foxeng.


FYI, most of the time, even on this small size screen, it is still fairly easy to see the difference between HD OTA vs. TWC. (TWC looks more compressed and lacks the fine detail I see OTA.)

Joe L.

Anybody know if this pre-amp can be used with a regular 120V power injector?
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=S0065DSB
There's one on ebay real cheap. I remeber when pre-amps and power supplies were less than $20. Now a good one will run you $50-$70. What the heck happened?

Thanks Andy. Really, we do try. That was a tough story to do.

We aren't HD like WRAL, but we do have a digital news studio and let it stay digital all of the way through from the cameras in the field to the studio cameras to the DTV transmitter and I think that helps the PQ a lot. Just my personal opinion! (and yeah, I am bias, just a little!! ;) )

Fox does look better than the other locals........now if only you could do SD Widescreen on the HD channel.......I am sure your cameras can do 16:9 SD, just frame the shots for 4:3 and give us the extras.

I scaned for new channels on my HDTV reciever last night and picked up a new channel.
Time Warner Cable must be previewing a new free QAM channel in Davidson Co.
94-12 Indemand 1 i.e. http://www.indemand.com/ channel 200.
BTW, not for all viewers.

Fox does look better than the other locals........now if only you could do SD Widescreen on the HD channel.......I am sure your cameras can do 16:9 SD, just frame the shots for 4:3 and give us the extras.

The field cameras do can do 16:9 (we just bought them - they are actually Sony blu-ray's!) but the studio cameras do not. They are just old enough to not have that feature. We bought them in 1994 right before the whole DTV thing started. In order to do 16:9 in the studio we will need to purchase new studio cameras. Our studio production switcher will do 16:9 but our current master control switcher is still analog so no 16:9 through it. We have to slave a small digital router switcher to the analog switcher just to switch the basics for the DTV transmitter.

PamW- I noted youyr comment about geting a RPTV cleaned. I'm overdue with mine as I don't have the guts to remove the screen and do it myself. Any recommendations on who you get to do yours?

Rich Tisovec

Zane,

Video is freezing on Gray's Anatomy on my 811. Not as bad as on the ViewSonic but still happening. Audio is OK. Commercials also seem to be OK.

Zane,

Video is freezing on Gray's Anatomy on my 811. Not as bad as on the ViewSonic but still happening. Audio is OK. Commercials also seem to be OK.


Gray's Anatomy is trouble free via OTA just to let you know. (At least my wife hasn't been complaining and she's the type that'll switch to SD in a second).

Gray's Anatomy is trouble free via OTA just to let you know. (At least my wife hasn't been complaining and she's the type that'll switch to SD in a second).

Second half was OK. I have an issue on CH 45 with my ViewSonic TV and sometimes with the 811 to a small extent. Signal strength/quality is not an issue. Something about the tuners.

BTW, my wife will leave the room and "go watch a TV that works" when the digital starts acting up.

PamW- I noted youyr comment about geting a RPTV cleaned. I'm overdue with mine as I don't have the guts to remove the screen and do it myself. Any recommendations on who you get to do yours?

Rich Tisovec

I have Andy from the "Now/Tweeter" group, although there are others who do the cleaning. If you are up to it, there is a thread in the rear projection section that has some good "how-tos":
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8719654&&#post8719654

Also a very cool thread about CRTs in general:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922

Good luck!

Zane,

Video is freezing on Gray's Anatomy on my 811. Not as bad as on the ViewSonic but still happening. Audio is OK. Commercials also seem to be OK.
I have no good explanation for your freezing. It was good on my H20 last night. I do not have problems with the STB in my office during GMA or The View during the day. Even though you have good signal could it be multipath? I'm not trying to push the problem off, it could be something with our signal but I just can't find it.

I have no good explanation for your freezing. It was good on my H20 last night. I do not have problems with the STB in my office during GMA or The View during the day. Even though you have good signal could it be multipath? I'm not trying to push the problem off, it could be something with our signal but I just can't find it.

The funny thing is that I have only seen the problem on evening ABC HD shows and never on football or news. It is quite consistent on the ViewSonic TV. Also, no completer dropout or pixelazation, just momentary video freeing making the picture look jerky. When I get the time, I will try feeding the 811's output to the ViewSonic to confirm that the problem is tuner related. I wish I had a spectrum analyzer at home to view the signals (although it will not show multipath). What is considered an acceptable signal to noise ratio for 8VSB when viewed on a spectrum analyzer and at what analyzer bandwidth?

Thanks,

The Dish 811 was never a great STB and always had all type of bugs. About the only specific problem I have seen the effects a specific type of TV in mass is the temporary loss of PSIP info that makes Sonys loose their signal, which seems to happen the most using a mix of older legacy HD equipment and newer equipment on the Broadcast Side.

That you are seeing this on both units - but not as dramatic on both - and no one else seems to see it - clearly indicates its a problem that is unique to the signal at your location.

The Dish 811 was never a great STB and always had all type of bugs. About the only specific problem I have seen the effects a specific type of TV in mass is the temporary loss of PSIP info that makes Sonys loose their signal, which seems to happen the most using a mix of older legacy HD equipment and newer equipment on the Broadcast Side.

That you are seeing this on both units - but not as dramatic on both - and no one else seems to see it - clearly indicates its a problem that is unique to the signal at your location.


I would still be willing to bet that if I took the ViewSonic N3251w to any location in the area on anyones antenna that I would still see the same ch 45 effect. It is so dramatic and consistent and very specific to the program material (16:9 HD ABC network but not live action sports). It may be that the ViewSonic's DSP has a bit too much to do on this 720p signal and has to stop updating the display at times to catch up. I know that the 811 sucks (technical term) and do intend to upgrade the equipment soon. I need to be sure that whatever I buy will not show the same issues. Antenna for now is rooftop ratshack yagi with CM rotor. CM UHF pre-amp inside that I can easily remove from the circuit (no help by removing it). Two way splitter and all lines are RG6 type.

Hi folks...very new to HDTV, so forgive some dumb questions coming down the pipe. :)

In High Point here, right off of Johnson Street, near the Cedar Springs subdivision.

Building a HTPC (my first) with an HD card in it...what's my best bet antenna wise? I know the small antenna that came with my card I just ordered (the ATI HDTV Wonder) isn't going to pull in much.

Antennaweb says that most of my local HD's are only about 15-30 miles away.

I see the Channel Master 4228 has gotten some love in the past few pages. Is this the best bet?

Thanks for humoring me on this, and thank you for any help you can provide a HDTV newbie.

Welcome to the group bawker!

I think most people around the country would say that the 4228 is the way to go. The thing that makes the 4228 so good is that unlike the yagi antennas (boom type antennas) is that the 4228 has almost uniform gain over the entire UHF band. Because of the physical length of the the UHF waves (2.2 inches at channel 14 and just 1.3 inches at channel 69) the yagi antennas are made to be more favorable to either the low, mid or high portions of the UHF band. The 4228 is a screen type and therefore doesn't have to worry about element lengths since there are no elements. The bowtie's angles act as many different size straight elements on the yagi and so it is more uniform over the entire band as well as being smaller and easier to hide.

All of the digital stations locally are between channels 14 (WGPX-DT) to WFMY-DT (channel 51) with many in the low to mid 30's so a bowtie works well. They also work decently with stations in the VHF high band (channels 7-13 but not for channels 2-6 in the VHF low band. I have personally used mine to pick up WTVD channel 11 in Raleigh. It wasn't as good as a VHF antenna, but for 90 miles, I won't complain!). That is important since WGHP-DT will move from channel 35 to channel 8 after the Feb 17, 2009 analog shutdown.

Welcome to the group bawker!

I think most people around the country would say that the 4228 is the way to go. . (snip)

Fantastic...I'll get to ordering one, then.

Is there someone local that's recommended for installation (running cable, constructing another outlet in the living room area)?

I'm not terribly handy when it comes to home improvement tasks...just being honest.

Although, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try to save the money.

Fantastic...I'll get to ordering one, then.

Is there someone local that's recommended for installation (running cable, constructing another outlet in the living room area)?

I'm not terribly handy when it comes to home improvement tasks...just being honest.

Although, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try to save the money.

Don't forget that the 4228 is a directional antenna so you may need a rotor to get all the available local channels (and possibly some more distant ones). The 4228 does have a broader beam pattern than the typical Yagi but the screen is a reflector that will reduce reception from the back. I need to move my Yagi to get PBS and usually for best reception on NBC (12.1). The Channel Master rotor is relatively inexpensive and has a programable controller that, once set, lets you just enter a channel number and it will point the antenna toward that transmitter.

Also, an outdoor antenna must be properly grounded to reduce the possibility of damager to your house and equipment from nearby lighting strikes (but nothing practical will protect from a direct hit). Usually that means running 10 gauge copper wire from the antenna mast directly to the main power entry ground rod and also using grounding blocks on the coax where it enters the house. You might want to try a good indoor antenna in the meantime just to see what you can get. It can also serve as a backup if your rooftop antenna gets wind damaged.

Well folks, I talked the wife into letting me install the 4228 outside. I've had much better success now that it's not in the attic. With a Winegard 8700 pre-amp I can get all the locals plus CBS, NBC, and Fox out of Charlotte. For some reason ABC out of Charlotte doesn't want to lock. I've had good results with ABC from Charlotte in the past, but it doesn't want to come in now for some reason. Anyway, I'll take what I can get for now. I'll take some photos of my setup sometime and post them.

For some reason ABC out of Charlotte doesn't want to lock. I've had good results with ABC from Charlotte in the past, but it doesn't want to come in now for some reason.

It is probably due to the fact that ABC in Charlotte is on channel 34 and our channel 35 is overloading your preamp.

It is probably due to the fact that ABC in Charlotte is on channel 34 and our channel 35 is overloading your preamp.

Now I know "the rest of the story". I figured there was something to it like that. Back when I got ABC from Charlotte, Fox was in low power. Makes sense now.

Will people in the Triad with "UHF only" antennas lose any channels in 2009 when everything is reorganized?

Help, Please.

Does anyone know what the QAM Clear channels are for the Elon-Burlington area?

My relative's TV (Panny plasma) no longer picks up any channels unless you manually tune them in. The only one we remember is 116 is NBC. It has become my fault, b/c I did the firmware updates provided on the forum :o .

Anyone having problems tuning to free/clear QAM stuff through TWC?

Thanks a bunch.

I just want to have a bunch of ammo and options for next time I visit.

*If there is a more appropriate area to be asking this please PM, b/c I have searched for anyone with a similar issue.

Will people in the Triad with "UHF only" antennas lose any channels in 2009 when everything is reorganized?

If you have a 4228, you shouldn't have any real problems receiving the local. The only station going back to their original channel is WGHP back to 8 from 35. In Raleigh, WTVD is going back to 11 and in Roanoke WSLS and WSET are going back to 10 and 13 respectively.

Other UHF antennas it could be doubtful unless you live right under the tower.

A couple of antenna grounding questions now that I have an outdoor setup. First of all, I have a grounding rod next to my cable junction box, but it's not terribly close to the antenna. Is there a maximum distance from the mast to the grounding rod that I need to keep in mind? If my current grounding rod is too far and I need to buy another grounding rod, where can I get one and how much do they cost?

A couple of antenna grounding questions now that I have an outdoor setup. First of all, I have a grounding rod next to my cable junction box, but it's not terribly close to the antenna. Is there a maximum distance from the mast to the grounding rod that I need to keep in mind? If my current grounding rod is too far and I need to buy another grounding rod, where can I get one and how much do they cost?

I don't believe distance is really a factor from what I have read, the main thing is using
the proper gauge copper (I believe 10 gauge?). If you do use a seperate grounding rod,
it also is suppose to tie in with the existing household ground, so I don't see why this
option would be of any advantage. Don't forget you need to ground the coax and the
mast pole for proper grounding. I am sure there are others that can be more specific.

C Snyder

Thanks for the info. I currently have my coax running through a grounding block which is attached to the house's main grounding rod. I'll get some 10 gauge copper wire soon and run it to my main grounding rod too. Another thing I read is to avoid tight radius turns when running the ground wire, so I need to keep that in mind too.

foxeng, I'm curious as to what happened to the gray bars on the side of picture for local SD programming on 8.1. The bars are now black.

foxeng, I'm curious as to what happened to the gray bars on the side of picture for local SD programming on 8.1. The bars are now black.

We are trying something.

Thanks for the info. I currently have my coax running through a grounding block which is attached to the house's main grounding rod. I'll get some 10 gauge copper wire soon and run it to my main grounding rod too. Another thing I read is to avoid tight radius turns when running the ground wire, so I need to keep that in mind too.

Because my antenna is on the opposite side of the house from the main power entry ground, I installed an 8 foot ground rod below the antenna about four feet away from the foundation and ran #10 copper straight down from the antenna mast to that rod. To comply with the electrical code, I then ran a #10 wire around the foundation to the main ground rod on the other side of the house. The ground rods are sold at Lowes for $11. You also need a clamp. The Idea is to provide a path for static to drain from the antenna to reduce the chance of a strike and to provide an easy path for a small strike to follow outside of the house. I do worry about connecting an expensive TV directly to an outside antenna. That is one reason to use a preamp. My theory is that a fifty dollar preamp can also serve as a sacrificial surge protector and may help protect the TV’s tuner (I could be wrong). However, most lightning damage in homes comes through the power lines as surges are induced in overhead wires (sometimes a quite a distance away) so whole-house surge protection is something to consider.

We are trying something.
AH!! Clear as mud. ;) :D

Because my antenna is on the opposite side of the house from the main power entry ground, I installed an 8 foot ground rod below the antenna about four feet away from the foundation and ran #10 copper straight down from the antenna mast to that rod.

My antenna and main ground are on the same side of the house so I should be in good shape. I just need to run the copper line down and to the right. The run will be about 50-60 feet.

AH!! Clear as mud. ;) :D

That is all you're going to get!! :)

I know things like wind and rain can effect OTA reception but what other factors might hinder getting a good signal? I was tooling around with my HD receiver last night around 10:00 and reception sucked for all the Charlotte channels. There was no wind and I looked at the weather radar and there was no rain in the area. I checked it again 1st thing this morning and everything came in with no problems at all and the outside conditions looked to be even worse than last night with a little rain and thick clouds. Any logical reasons why?

That is all you're going to get!! :)

foxeng thinking of going 16:9 on all programs?:rolleyes: The Charleston SC FOX 24 WTAT is 16:9 all the time. It actually looks good!

If you think that TNT-HD Stretched looks good, god help us.

I know things like wind and rain can effect OTA reception but what other factors might hinder getting a good signal? I was tooling around with my HD receiver last night around 10:00 and reception sucked for all the Charlotte channels. There was no wind and I looked at the weather radar and there was no rain in the area. I checked it again 1st thing this morning and everything came in with no problems at all and the outside conditions looked to be even worse than last night with a little rain and thick clouds. Any logical reasons why?

temp and temp inversions

Because my antenna is on the opposite side of the house from the main power entry ground, I installed an 8 foot ground rod below the antenna about four feet away from the foundation and ran #10 copper straight down from the antenna mast to that rod. To comply with the electrical code, I then ran a #10 wire around the foundation to the main ground rod on the other side of the house. The ground rods are sold at Lowes for $11. You also need a clamp. The Idea is to provide a path for static to drain from the antenna to reduce the chance of a strike and to provide an easy path for a small strike to follow outside of the house. I do worry about connecting an expensive TV directly to an outside antenna. That is one reason to use a preamp. My theory is that a fifty dollar preamp can also serve as a sacrificial surge protector and may help protect the TV’s tuner (I could be wrong). However, most lightning damage in homes comes through the power lines as surges are induced in overhead wires (sometimes a quite a distance away) so whole-house surge protection is something to consider.

Unfortunately that sets up a ground loop potential as the electrical and and antenna are not grounded at the same point.

I don't believe distance is really a factor from what I have read, the main thing is using
the proper gauge copper (I believe 10 gauge?). If you do use a seperate grounding rod,
it also is suppose to tie in with the existing household ground, so I don't see why this
option would be of any advantage. Don't forget you need to ground the coax and the
mast pole for proper grounding. I am sure there are others that can be more specific.

C Snyder

Yes, codes have a max distance for the cable run to the ground.

Unfortunately that sets up a ground loop potential as the electrical and and antenna are not grounded at the same point.

Actually not. According to what the OP has written he has tied the antenna ground to the main ground and that is good. The idea is to get ALL of the grounds tied together (electrical, telephone, etc) so they all raise and fall with the same resistive potential so lightning can't find an independent path to ground. That is how we ground the big towers, tye all ground points together and let them all float together.

So if the length of a ground wire could potentially be an issue, how long of a run might be too long?

temp and temp inversions


Here's more info for those (like me) that might be interested:

From Wiki:

Tropospheric propagation

The service area from a TV or FM radio transmitter extends to just beyond the optical horizon, at which point signals start to rapidly reduce in strength. Viewers living in such a "deep fringe" reception area will notice that during certain conditions weak signals normally masked by noise increase in signal strength to allow quality reception. Such conditions are related to the current state of the troposphere.

Tropospheric propagated signals travel in the part of the atmosphere adjacent to the surface and extending to some 25,000 feet (7,620 meters). Such signals are thus directly affected by weather conditions extending over some hundreds of miles. During very settled, warm anticyclonic weather (i.e., high pressure), usually weak, snowy TV signals from distant transmitters improve in signal strength. Another symptom during such conditions may be interference to the local transmitter resulting in co-channel interference, which may be in the form of horizontal lines or an extra floating picture. A settled high-pressure system gives the classic conditions for enhanced tropospheric propagation, in particular favouring signals which travel along the prevailing isobar pattern rather than across it. Such weather conditions can occur at any time, but generally the summer and autumn months are the best periods. In certain favourable locations, enhanced tropospheric propagation may enable reception of UHF TV signals up to 1,000 miles (1,600 km) or more.

The observable characteristics of such high-pressure systems are usually clear, cloudless days with little or no wind. At sunset the upper air cools, as does the surface temperature, but at different rates. This produces a boundary or temperature gradient, which allows an inversion level to form – a similar effect occurs at sunrise. The inversion is capable of allowing VHF and UHF signal propagation well beyond the normal radio horizon distance.

The inversion effectively reduces sky wave radiation from a transmitter – normally VHF and UHF signals travel on into space when they reach the horizon, the refractive index of the ionosphere preventing signal return. With temperature inversion, however, the signal is to a large extent refracted over the horizon rather than continuing along a direct path into outer space.

Fog also produces good tropospheric results, again due to inversion effects. Fog occurs during high-pressure weather, and if such conditions result in a large belt of fog with clear sky above, there will be heating of the upper fog level and thus an inversion. This situation often arises towards night fall, continues overnight and clears with the sunrise over a period of around 4–5 hours.

So if the length of a ground wire could potentially be an issue, how long of a run might be too long?I'm not sure, but I would guess the distance between the bottom ends of the guy wires on the TV transmitting tower are FAR greater than the distance between any two ground rods alongside any residential house. Most important would be the gauge of the wire (and its resistance between the two ground rods)

Also, as foxeng stated, as long as ALL the wires connecting to the back of your TV rise and fall at the same potential no current will flow through your TV, and no harm will occur, (even if they all rise to 100,000 volts)

A surge suppressor on the AC line that limits the voltage across any two conductors to 360 volts or less will NOT help at all if the coax from your antenna is allowed to rise to 10,000 volts. (most surge protectors clamp the AC voltage somewhere at around this level)

What kills equipment is a voltage difference between ANY TWO CONDUCTORS connected to it higher than it was designed for. If you ground the antenna mast, and use a "ground block" in line with the antenna coax it will limit the voltage on the outside of the coax to whatever voltage can be dropped in the path to the building ground rod(s). If you do not connect the antenna ground rod to the AC ground rod there will be some resistance (several 10's of ohms, or even much higher, depending on moisture in the ground between the two ground rods)

If you pass the current of a nearby , but not direct lightning strike (lets say 1,000 amps) across 10 ohms of resistance (between the ground rods) you get a voltage of 10,000 volts. if the resistance was 100 ohms (more likely) you would develop a voltage of 100,000 volts. If you pass that same 1000 amps of current through .05 ohms resistance (50 feet of 10 gauge between the rods) you get a voltage of 50 volts.

Your TV is very likely to survive 50 volts between the antenna input and its AC power input, but might not survive 10,000 volts across it. (even less likely to survive 100,000 volts) Again, it is the voltage across ANY two conductors that will kill equipment. They could ALL be at 1,000,000 volts potential, but if there is no voltage difference between them no current will flow, and no damage occurs. (Think of birds perched on a high-tension-line, it can be at 200,000 volts potential, but because no voltage difference exists between the bird's feet, it is not harmed)

There are AC surge protectors that also pass the antenna cable coax through them, these try to limit the difference in potential between those two wires connected to the back of your TV. If you cannot get the ground rods connected together around your house, at least use one of these type surge protectors that also pass the antenna coax. It won't hurt.

Joe L.
As already mentioned, according to the electrical code, all ground rods around your house should be connected together.

Just to give you an example, when we built the new tower, we put in THREE separate ground systems, checked and measured EACH one and then tied them all together for one huge ground system just to keep lightning away. They were the 1) building where the phone, electric and buidling were all tied together, 2) one for the transmission line bridge which has 20 ground rods tied together, and 3) the tower which has about 50 ground rods not only around the tower but around the guy anchers and all of those points are tied together and run back to the tower base and the average run between the guy anchors and the tower is 460 feet so a run around the house is nothing to worry about.

Apparently atmospheric conditions were very favorable last night for OTA DTV since I was able to get all the Triad locals plus all the Charlotte locals including ABC 9 for the first time since I put the 4228 up this past weekend.

That is funny, I had a terrible time last night trying to receive OTA. In fact, I ended up watching The Unit in SD! :eek:

That is funny, I had a terrible time last night trying to receive OTA. In fact, I ended up watching The Unit in SD! :eek:

Strange indeed. One thing I've learned is that OTA reception is unpredictable at best. What kind of antenna setup are you using?

4228 with a CM booster. I live in HP right off of Skeet Club & Kendale.

OTA can be a real pain that would not be worth the effort if HD were not so great!!!!

When you say "booster" I assume you are talking about a pre-amp right? If that's the case, we basically have the same setup except I have a different brand pre-amp. I wonder why you were having issues last night and it was one of the better nights for HD for me?

When you say "booster" I assume you are talking about a pre-amp right? If that's the case, we basically have the same setup except I have a different brand pre-amp. I wonder why you were having issues last night and it was one of the better nights for HD for me?

We also watched The Unit last night with no periblems. I am thinking to getting another antenna like the CM because the RS Yagi is just too directional.

Actually not. According to what the OP has written he has tied the antenna ground to the main ground and that is good. The idea is to get ALL of the grounds tied together (electrical, telephone, etc) so they all raise and fall with the same resistive potential so lightning can't find an independent path to ground. That is how we ground the big towers, tye all ground points together and let them all float together.


sorry - read it VERY early this morning after coming in from election coverage. Missed that he had tied it all together with the main house ground.

Does anybody know how much signal loss occurs when using a barrel connector to connect 2 pieces of RG6 cable together?

Does anybody know how much signal loss occurs when using a barrel connector to connect 2 pieces of RG6 cable together?

Signal loss should not be significant if the connectors and “barrel” are good quality, clean, and installed correctly. Be sure the connectors are the correct type for the coax you are using. You should also have the correct tool to prep the coax. Poor connector installation can cause reflections that are equivalent to multipath. Also, if the “splice’ is outside, it must be fully weatherproofed to prevent corrosion and to keep the coax from wicking up moisture. The cable folks often use “flooded” cable for outside runs. It has a nasty sticky stuff inside that seals out moisture (but it’s hard to work with). If the coax reel is old, I usually cut off the first six inches and discard before installing connectors.

Does anybody know how much signal loss occurs when using a barrel connector to connect 2 pieces of RG6 cable together?

Depending on the frequency anywhere from .75 dB at lower frequencies to around 2 dB at upper frequencies. It is really recommended to NOT put barrel connectors in at all.

Just two barrels will drop your signal around 50%.

Depending on the frequency anywhere from .75 dB at lower frequencies to around 2 dB at upper frequencies. It is really recommended to NOT put barrel connectors in at all.

Just two barrels will drop your signal around 50%.

OK, I am really surprised. The F connectors and barrels must have really poor internal impedance control. I can guess that the loss would be due to impedance mismatch rather then dissipative loss because the path is so short. An SMA or type N barrel would only have a few tenths of a dB loss below 1 GHz.

The grounding block typically used at the house entry is also a barrel. Is it OK to omit this? However, if the systems uses a preamp then connector losses after the preamp should not change the S/N.

OK, I am really surprised. The F connectors and barrels must have really poor internal impedance control. I can guess that the loss would be due to impedance mismatch rather then dissipative loss because the path is so short. An SMA or type N barrel would only have a few tenths of a dB loss below 1 GHz.

The grounding block typically used at the house entry is also a barrel. Is it OK to omit this? However, if the systems uses a preamp then connector losses after the preamp should not change the S/N.

Yes, it is due to VSWR issues. If all you have in line is a grounding block, and you have a low gain amplifier in line to over come line loss you insert, you will be OK. The problem is when you start putting as much gain in line as you can without looking at how much loss you have and what your S/N will be depending and how much intermod product you will receive on where you place that gain. More gain is not always the best way to go. In my own experimenting, I find an average loss system with about a 15 db gain amp at the antenna is about right for around here. Of course you can get fancy and make a suped-up system, but for the average digital viewer, that seems to work for most.

Yes, it is due to VSWR issues. If all you have in line is a grounding block, and you have a low gain amplifier in line to over come line loss you insert, you will be OK. The problem is when you start putting as much gain in line as you can without looking at how much loss you have and what your S/N will be depending and how much intermod product you will receive on where you place that gain. More gain is not always the best way to go. In my own experimenting, I find an average loss system with about a 15 db gain amp at the antenna is about right for around here. Of course you can get fancy and make a suped-up system, but for the average digital viewer, that seems to work for most.

I did a quick search and it seems that is should be possible to make a relatively low loss cable splice with the right connectors. The connectors and barrel in the link below are specified to have less than 0.2dB loss each at 3GHz, so less than 0.5dB total at 900MHz should be doable. I admit that the typical consumer grade connection may yield much poorer results.

If the preamp is at the antenna mast then it should set the noise figure for the whole system, assuming enough gain to override all distribution path losses (splitters, cable, etc). However, overload induced IMD may be a problem. I am concerned that the CM 7775 UHF preamp (2dB noise figure, 26 dB gain) may have too much gain for this area. So far it is working out OK for me but I have not yet moved it to the antenna mast. My theory is that the the input matching network will help reject FM and VHF because it is a UHF only pre-amp. I may add an attenuator to the input and sacrifice some noise figure if I see indications of overload.


http://www.trianglecables.com/200-059.html


http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Pico-Macom/f56q-001-PermaSeal-II-F-Series-Compression-Connectors.html

I've been checking D*'s website periodically over the past month to see if HD LiL is available for us yet. You can search by zip code and it will tell you what locals are available and if they are available in HD yet. Today I took it a little bit further. I looked up zip codes for the other cities listed. It appears as though us and Providence, RI are the only ones left on the list they have on their site (Austin, Cincinnati, Greensboro, Las Vegas, Madison, Memphis, Portland ME, Portland OR, Providence, Reno, San Antonio). I guess if they only have 2 more markets to put up "this fall" I like our chances?

Does anybody know whether or not the barrels that D* installers use are of decent quality? When I moved my dish about a month ago, I removed some of their barrels and kept them for future use in case I ever needed them. They look a lot like the ones from triangle cables except the center core is blue, not green. Right now my 4228 antenna run is as follows:
Antenna is connected to pre-amp w/ about 1' of cable and compression connectors.
Pre-amp has rubber boots to protect from rain.
Coax then runs about 50' to junction box where it hits a grounding block.
From the grounding block, it goes into the house, hits a wall plate and then connects to my power injector. From the injector, it goes about 4' to the HD tuner. Anybody see anything with my setup that I could potentially make better? You all have me thinking that I might upgrade the barrel in the wall plate since it's a pretty cheap Lowe's plate I bought a few years back.

I've been checking D*'s website periodically over the past month to see if HD LiL is available for us yet. You can search by zip code and it will tell you what locals are available and if they are available in HD yet. Today I took it a little bit further. I looked up zip codes for the other cities listed. It appears as though us and Providence, RI are the only ones left on the list they have on their site (Austin, Cincinnati, Greensboro, Las Vegas, Madison, Memphis, Portland ME, Portland OR, Providence, Reno, San Antonio). I guess if they only have 2 more markets to put up "this fall" I like our chances?

I've been keeping an eye on dbstalk.com to see if the Triad market has HD LiL yet. From everything I've read, we're due to get them this month. There's a lot of talk about the HR20 not being in stock so even if we get the locals in this area and you want a HD DVR, we may still have to wait. Anybody else know the availability of the HR20 in this area? One more thing I'm waiting on is the SlimLine dish. I've seen a few AT9s around town and it's not the prettiest thing to look at if you ask me.

Does anybody know whether or not the barrels that D* installers use are of decent quality? When I moved my dish about a month ago, I removed some of their barrels and kept them for future use in case I ever needed them. They look a lot like the ones from triangle cables except the center core is blue, not green. Right now my 4228 antenna run is as follows:
Antenna is connected to pre-amp w/ about 1' of cable and compression connectors.
Pre-amp has rubber boots to protect from rain.
Coax then runs about 50' to junction box where it hits a grounding block.
From the grounding block, it goes into the house, hits a wall plate and then connects to my power injector. From the injector, it goes about 4' to the HD tuner. Anybody see anything with my setup that I could potentially make better? You all have me thinking that I might upgrade the barrel in the wall plate since it's a pretty cheap Lowe's plate I bought a few years back.


Why use the barrel at all? Why not just get a plate with a single hole large enough to fit the coax through? That way you won't have to worry about any signal loss. My setup is identical to you minus the barrel connection in the wall plate. I get solid locks on all the Triad and Charlotte locals.

Why use the barrel at all? Why not just get a plate with a single hole large enough to fit the coax through? That way you won't have to worry about any signal loss. My setup is identical to you minus the barrel connection in the wall plate. I get solid locks on all the Triad and Charlotte locals.

Good point. I might just get a new wall plate like you have.

Why use the barrel at all? Why not just get a plate with a single hole large enough to fit the coax through? That way you won't have to worry about any signal loss. My setup is identical to you minus the barrel connection in the wall plate. I get solid locks on all the Triad and Charlotte locals.
If you are using an antenna mount amplifier and the other end is between the wall plate and your receiver, wouldn't that make up for any signal loss incurred by an inefficient barrel connector in your plate? I guess unless its adding noise to the line then you are amplifying the noise with it. My original understanding was that the purpose of the amp was to help with signal loss due to length of run and to regain the loss from grounding block, barrel connectors, etc. Can anyone clarify this a bit?

My original understanding was that the purpose of the amp was to help with signal loss due to length of run and to regain the loss from grounding block, barrel connectors, etc.

Yes, but don't forget that the amp is also used to help make weak distant signals strong enough to lock. Milchad was simply asking for ways he could improve his setup. Each time you break that feed line you lose signal strength and introduce a certain amount of noise. I was simply pointing out one way he could improve his setup if he was concerned about signal loss. Most of us who even care about signal loss enough to look for ways to improve our setups are the ones shooting for stations in adjacent markets.

edited

Sorry about that...wrong forum and duplicate post. :p

Yes, but don't forget that the amp is also used to help make weak distant signals strong enough to lock. Milchad was simply asking for ways he could improve his setup. Each time you break that feed line you lose signal strength and introduce a certain amount of noise. I was simply pointing out one way he could improve his setup if he was concerned about signal loss. Most of us who even care about signal loss enough to look for ways to improve our setups are the ones shooting for stations in adjacent markets.

Couldn't agree more. The main reason I want everything setup just right is for TV towers 60+ miles away. The local Triad channels have no problems at all.

This thing for the last two weeks has recorded NOTHING that I set it up to.

I set it up at the beginning of the season to record first run episodes of all my favorite shows and it hasn't been doing it. There is plenty of room on the HD and I have been leaving it on all the time.

Is this a common problem? What should I do?

Yes, but don't forget that the amp is also used to help make weak distant signals strong enough to lock. Milchad was simply asking for ways he could improve his setup. Each time you break that feed line you lose signal strength and introduce a certain amount of noise. I was simply pointing out one way he could improve his setup if he was concerned about signal loss. Most of us who even care about signal loss enough to look for ways to improve our setups are the ones shooting for stations in adjacent markets.

Most antenna manufactures will tell you “if can’t get a good picture AT THE ANTENNA, a pre-amplifier will not help”. If a signal is too weak, you need a better antenna. The pre-amplifier or a distribution amplifier is needed only to compensate for losses in the cables and splitters. Modern TV tuners can accommodate a wide range of input signal levels so the actual signal strength at the TV is not too important as long as it is within the TV tuners range. However, the signal to noise ratio (S/N) is very important. The S/N is established at the antenna and no amplifier can improve it. You can only try to not make the S/N too much worse. When you amplify a weak signal you also amplify the noise power at the antenna so although you increase the signal’s level, you don’t improve the S/N (in fact you make it worse). Any losses between the antenna and the first amplifier will decrease the S/N by the amount of the loss. The S/N will also be decreased by the noise figure of the amplifier. If the amplifier has enough gain, than any losses between the amplifier and the tuner will have no significant effect on the S/N. We say that the pre-amplifier sets the system’s noise figure. If you have a pre-amplifier, try adding a 6dB attenuator at the TV input on a weak analog channel. You likely will not see any difference. If you put the attenuator in front of the pre-amp you may see a difference on a weak channel. The point is that small discontinuities in the transmission line after the amplifier should not cause problems if you have established a good S/N and have enough gain.

Of course all this assumes that the pre-amp is not being overdriven by strong signals on adjacent channels and that multipath effects are not causing reception problems.

This thing for the last two weeks has recorded NOTHING that I set it up to.

I set it up at the beginning of the season to record first run episodes of all my favorite shows and it hasn't been doing it. There is plenty of room on the HD and I have been leaving it on all the time.

Is this a common problem? What should I do?

Since it has been 2 weeks - I would suggest that the reservations were hosed when the change from EDT to EST happened.

I had this happen last year - but the firmware in another market i am on seemed to keep 90% of them correct this year.

Delete all the reservations and re-enter.

Is it me or are others getting 94-12 on Time Warner Cable? Please post if you are receiving this new channel. Thoughts? Reviews?

Not sure what 94-12 is. We don't have subchannels on TWC

Instead of paying $14.95/month for a cable box, aftermarket vendors like LG and Samsung have build boxes for HDTV for Cable aka QAM and for OTA. 94-12 should be available on aftermarket HDTV receivers and HDTV displays with build in tuners.

What channel is 94-12??????

Instead of paying $14.95/month for a cable box, aftermarket vendors like LG and Samsung have build boxes for HDTV for Cable aka QAM and for OTA. 94-12 should be available on aftermarket HDTV receivers and HDTV displays with build in tuners.


Gotta have the DVR and I can't afford a TIVO Series3 when the 8300HD is pretty darn cheap to rent and when it craps out get another one from TWC.

I have the TiVo S3. I don't remember seeing any QAM channels like 94-12. Why don't you tell us what this channel is?

http://www.indemand.com/listingsChooseProvider.jsp?zip=27292&submit=enter

In Demand channel 200 is showing free for the last 10 days.

This what is on today on 94-12.

1:00pm Totally Nude Amateurs Revealed Repeat
2:00pm Naked News TV! Repeat, CC
3:00pm Skin Flicks: The Pleasure Kingdom Repeat, CC
4:00pm Cheaters: Naked Betrayals Uncensored Repeat, CC
5:00pm Stag: Whipped Cream Dream Repeat, CC
6:00pm Jeff Cesario: Get a Hooker Repeat, CC
7:00pm Half Pint Brawlers - Cage Match Repeat, CC
8:00pm King of the Cage: All Stars Repeat, CC
11:00pm Stag: Whipped Cream Dream Repeat, CC
12:00am Sex Therapists Gone Nude Repeat, CC
1:00am Girls Gone Wild: The Wild World Repeat, CC
2:30am Real Wild Girls: Nude Foam Party Repeat, CC
3:30am Coed Party Girls: Wet T-Shirt Contest Repeat, CC
4:30am Backyard Babes: Hardcore Hotties Repeat, CC
5:30am Mail Order Housewives: Brazil Repeat, CC

Don't need porn

I have an opinion, but that's all it is so take it for what it's worth. I personally prefer plasma over LCD for better blacks, better viewing angles and no motion blur, but those are personal tastes. Panasonic plasmas are probably the best value out there. Great pq, great prices. I own a 42" ED Panasonic plasma and 3 Pioneer plasmas.

I personally think the Panasonic trounces the Samsung in pq and reliability. If I couldn't buy another Pioneer, I'd only buy Panasonic.

Only issue with plasma would be whether you mind the stretch modes for 4:3 content. The Panasonic does a great "just" mode that I can barely tell is stretched. I actually prefer stretched content to sidebars. But again, that's very personal taste.

If you don't mind stretch modes and want the best pq for the best value, I'd vote the Panasonic by a landslide. If you're not willing to stretch 4:3, then I suggest LCD to avoid any risk of burn-in. I don't know anything about the LCD brands, so I can't help with that.

If you're looking for good prices on the Panasonic, check out www.satsound.com, I think they're a forum sponsor, you'll have to call to get a price, but they gave me a great deal on a Pioneer once. Or I can give you the # of a dealer who's a forum member who has good prices.

Does anybody have an opinion on what the best 42" flat panel for the money is right now? I'm in the market for a large TV for my bedroom without breaking the bank. I've been looking at the following models and like what I see so far. Thoughts?

http://hbcelectronics.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_26_30&products_id=1325
http://hbcelectronics.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_26_30&products_id=1307
http://www2.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?omid=122&utm_id=17&ref=pricegrabber&utm_source=PriceGrabber&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SYN342I&sku=SYN342I
Rumor has it that this will be doorbuster (5 AM - noon) at BB on Black Friday for $999:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8114541&st=westinghouse+42&type=product&id=1158318442758

Here are some other rumors of comparisons for BF:
http://bfads.net/features/tv/price/all/750/1500/40/49

Thanks for the info. (Sorry, I didn't mean to post this message in this forum location, but now that I have...) I'm leaning towards plasma these days since the burn-in isn't much of a factor anymore and it seems like you can get more screen for your money as compared to LCD. Not to mention since I'm talking about putting it in the bedroom, an LCD may be too bright when watching at night. I'd probably give the Panasonic the nod too especially after reading the cnet reviews. I don't care if it has a digital tuner, but I'd like it to be 1080i capable, and at least one HDMI input. Other than that, as long as it's a quality set, I'll be happy.

Time Warner Cable has adjusted the QAM channels again. I will post new channel numbers and stations soon.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks Flo. I will have to rescan tonight also. Yippee, I love nothing more than chilling out with the wife and watching the TV rescan for 30 minutes! I guess I shouldn't complain for free HD signals.

I don't guess we lucked up and got TNT-HD back did we?

No TNT, but we have Action Cinemax now, the Indemand is gone.

Hi, folks:

Just found this thread. Nice to see other users posting from the Triad area.

I know this subject has been beaten to death, but it would be nice to see an update. Does anyone have any idea (guess? speculation?) whether TimeWarner will ever patch their differences with WXLV and carry their HD signal? I'm trying to decide whether I should try to set up an antenna to supplement my cable, which won't be easy with my setup.

welcome slksc! does your display have an OTA tuner? if so, try one of the easy and cheap indoor antenna to see how much signal you can pick up. that will give you an idea where to start from without an expensive commitment. let us know.

That's certainly a reasonable idea; I should probably go ahead and do it. I hadn't tried it before because WXLV-DT is 35 miles away, and on the wrong side of the house from my TV. Their analog tower at Suaratown Mt. is only 15 miles away, and in the right direction. But that doesn't do me any good for HD signal.

D* HD Locals - Greensboro not listed anymore!

Anyone heard a status update on what is happening with us getting locals in HD? All of a sudden, Greensboro is not on their list of cities to get them.

slkcs, hey Im in the same boat as you TWC customer, and Im just as irked over the whole Sinclair TWC issue, I wish they would just get it up and going. I live in Winston Salem too, I just bought a cheap 20 dollar rca receiver from Best Buy only for ABC, and it picks it up near flawlessly everytime. Worth a shot=)

I currently live in Saxapahaw, and I am in the Piedmont Triad division of TWC. Currently, the only true HD channel I receive over QAM is UNCHD (116-14). I get a few lame digital ad-channels, although all are in 480i. Are locals broadcast over QAM here, or am I just out of luck?

Murdoch said today that he will likely be selling off D* to Liberty by the way, in case you had not heard. I wonder how this will affect the HD rollout?

D* HD Locals - Greensboro not listed anymore!

Anyone heard a status update on what is happening with us getting locals in HD? All of a sudden, Greensboro is not on their list of cities to get them.

Here's the list:
Here's a list of upcoming markets that will launch this fall:
Buffalo, NY; Greenville-Spartanburg, SC; Asheville, NC; Harrisburg-Lancaster, PA; Jacksonville, FL; Brunswick, GA; New Orleans, LA; Spokane, WA; Tulsa, OK; and Albuquerque-Santa Fe, NM.

Why in the world would small markets like Asheville be on there and not the Triad? Unless this is the next list and the Triad will be activated any day now.

That's certainly a reasonable idea; I should probably go ahead and do it. I hadn't tried it before because WXLV-DT is 35 miles away, and on the wrong side of the house from my TV. Their analog tower at Suaratown Mt. is only 15 miles away, and in the right direction. But that doesn't do me any good for HD signal.

45-1 shouldn't be too much of a problem getting with good signal strengths. I was messing around with an indoor antenna the other day and pointed it towards ABC and it locked at about 90-95%. I live about 30+ miles from the towers too. Unless you live down in a deep valley somewhere, you should be fine.

slksc, no updates that I know of, so no hope that I know of either. Have you tried an inexpensive Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna if you just need ABC.

I currently live in Saxapahaw, and I am in the Piedmont Triad division of TWC. Currently, the only true HD channel I receive over QAM is UNCHD (116-14). I get a few lame digital ad-channels, although all are in 480i. Are locals broadcast over QAM here, or am I just out of luck?
I'm in Winston-Salem, and here's what I was getting (before my tv went into the shop):

82-1 UNC TV
82-2 UNC KD
82-3 WXII Weather
82-4 UNC HD
82-5 WXII NBC HD
87-2 Discovery HD
88-5 Music
88-49 Music
89-1 Showtime
94-5 HBO in Spanish
100-12 TLC
102-7 Univision no audio
116-1 Fox HD
116-2 CBS HD
116-3 WFMY Weather
116-4 UNC ED
116-5 UNC NC

As you can see, it includes Fox, CBS, and NBC hd channels, plus Discovery hd. Note that the channel numbers I listed are different from those someone else listed - why, I don't know.

OK, you guys have convinced me that an indoor antenna is at least feasible. We'll give it a shot. Thanks.

D* HD Locals - Greensboro not listed anymore!

Anyone heard a status update on what is happening with us getting locals in HD? All of a sudden, Greensboro is not on their list of cities to get them.
Greensboro and Providence both still do not have HD LiL (according to the local channel check list on D* site) and those were the only 2 remaining from the old list before they put up the new one.

I'm in Winston-Salem, and here's what I was getting (before my tv went into the shop):

82-1 UNC TV
82-2 UNC KD
82-3 WXII Weather
82-4 UNC HD
82-5 WXII NBC HD
87-2 Discovery HD
88-5 Music
88-49 Music
89-1 Showtime
94-5 HBO in Spanish
100-12 TLC
102-7 Univision no audio
116-1 Fox HD
116-2 CBS HD
116-3 WFMY Weather
116-4 UNC ED
116-5 UNC NC

As you can see, it includes Fox, CBS, and NBC hd channels, plus Discovery hd. Note that the channel numbers I listed are different from those someone else listed - why, I don't know.

Hmm... It is interesting to me that everybody else with TWC in the area is getting 10+ QAM HD channels, and here I only receive 1. Is there any way that my lack of channels is due to anything other than TWC not broadcasting them in my area? I'm not sure that calling TWC here would help, as I don't know that they would know what QAM means.

cyborg, have you had TW come out and test your line-could be that you can get analog fine but not enough signal strength to bring in the QAM's-worth a try. and you are right not to ask them about qam since most csr's are clueless on this.

cyborg, have you had TW come out and test your line-could be that you can get analog fine but not enough signal strength to bring in the QAM's-worth a try. and you are right not to ask them about qam since most csr's are clueless on this.

Here's the rub: I live in a large complex, and I took over the lease of a previous subscriber. I currently pay for cable modem service. TWC states that I must pay more than double my current Internet rate to procure the television service that may or may not already be in the clear on my line. Inviting them out just seems like a bad idea. The UNCHD QAM station seems to have very good signal strength (no pixellating, no artifacts, etc). Other digital stations get autodetected but they are just movie preview channels.

Dekatt, they shuffled them yesterday. The channels are in a much lower range now. I will post here today what they are now.

The Cyborg, which town are you in? What receiver you use? I could stop by with my receiver and see what you have.

I'm in Saxapahaw (11 Miles W of Carrboro, Southeast of Burlington, South of Mebane). I'm using the built in QAM tuner in a Vizio VX37L.

Time Warner Cable - Triad - Lexington - Broadcast Tier - $7.50/mth.

Analog: 2-23, 76-78, 99. Including 5, HBO.
Digital:
82-1 NBC-HD
82-2 QXII WEATHER
82-3 UNC-TV
82-4 UNC-HD
82-5 UNC-KD
83-10 PREVIEWS
86-4 ABC-SD WIDE
86-414 CAROLINA 14
86-513 TV GUIDE
86-519 WEATHER-LEXINGTON
85-520 TV GUIDE
87-11 DISCOVERY HD
88-9, 39, 42, 49 MUSIC
88-94 DISCOVERY HOME
90-4 PREVIEWS
92-1 CBS-HD
92-2 WEMY WEATHER
92-3 FOX-HD
92-6 UNC-ED
92-7 UNC-NC
94-3 ACTION MAX
100-210 TLC
102-131 TELEMUNDO
102-515 WEATHER-WINSTON
112-1 NBA AD

Channels 3-76 SD are open on my line, so I have to assume that any QAM channels would be present and unfiltered given whatever subscription was previously at my residence, right?

Correct, but you should have at a minimum the 4 major networks in HD for free, according to FCC rules.

edit: FCC rules state that if the network carries a network in HD, then it has to be available free.

Remember that TWC Winston-Salem west and down through Lexington are fed from the Winston-Salem head end and have their own set of channels. TWC Greensboro north to Reidsville down to Asheboro and east are fed from the Greensboro head end and they use different QAM channel numbers. Why, I don't know, but they do. So someone in Winston-Salem will get WGHP-DT on a different QAM channel than someone in Greensboro.

Correct, but you should have at a minimum the 4 major networks in HD for free, according to FCC rules.

Four will be difficult since TWC only offers 3 networks in HD (CBS, FOX and NBC).

OK. Perhaps I'll have to knock on some doors in my complex and see who has HDTV's with QAM tuners! I've already substituted the main splitter where the feed line comes in with a coupler to ensure maximum signal strength to the tuner. I'm not sure if there is much else I can try.

Response from D* regarding HD locals in Greensboro:

Thanks for asking about HD programming. I know that HD programming is important to you and DIRECTV is committed to offering the best possible HD experience to you. In recent months, we have launched the first two of four satellites that will allow us to greatly expand our HD local channel offerings.

The two new satellites have allowed us to begin offering HD local channels in several cities, with many more to come later this year. In fact, local HD channels are expected to be launched in your market area, Greensboro - Winston-Salem NC late this November. Because our satellite capacity is still limited, we intend to focus on getting HD feeds of ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC up in as many cities as possible. Next year, when the other two satellites become available, we will be able to begin providing even more channels (including CW, where available) in existing HD local markets, as well as adding new HD markets and more national HD programming.

Though currently we are not able to offer CW in HD in most markets, we continue to evaluate our available capacity and discuss the addition of HD channels with our program providers.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to our web site for the latest news about HD programming from DIRECTV.

Sincerely,

Ana - 100105814
DIRECTV Customer Service

Hi - may be moving to the area. I am interested in a few things about HDTV OTA in the area.

questions:

-are all the major network affiliates broadcasting in HD?
-Is there a decent way to get all the locals OTA without rotating the antenna every time you change a station? Seems that Channel 12 and one other is totally in the opposite direction from the other.

Dekatt, they shuffled them yesterday. The channels are in a much lower range now. I will post here today what they are now.

The Cyborg, which town are you in? What receiver you use? I could stop by with my receiver and see what you have.

That explains a couple of things. I had to send my tv in for service because of a problem with the ASTC tuner (kept forgetting channels, requiring frequent rescans), and they gave me a new one in exchange. I noticed the change in channel numbers when I set up the new one earlier today. Also, I don't think I'm getting the Spanish language HBO, but I picked up something new ("Action", according to the on-screen logo).

Hi - may be moving to the area. I am interested in a few things about HDTV OTA in the area.

questions:

-are all the major network affiliates broadcasting in HD?
-Is there a decent way to get all the locals OTA without rotating the antenna every time you change a station? Seems that Channel 12 and one other is totally in the opposite direction from the other.
I get all 4 networks OTA with a CM4228 in the attic, not on a rotor (actually just leaning up against a rafter) with a Titan amp.

Hi - may be moving to the area. I am interested in a few things about HDTV OTA in the area.

questions:

-are all the major network affiliates broadcasting in HD?
-Is there a decent way to get all the locals OTA without rotating the antenna every time you change a station? Seems that Channel 12 and one other is totally in the opposite direction from the other.

Depending on where you live in the Triad and how good your antenna is, you should be able to get all the locals in HD without a rotor. I have had great success with combining two antennas in my attic. One points to NBC / PBS and the other is pointed to FOX, ABC and CBS. Not everybody has had the same success as me, but my setup works just fine. Not to mention, I was able to pull all the locals in without a pre-amp. I have another antenna outside pointed to Charlotte that does use a pre-amp and I get all their locals except for ABC.

Here's the rub: I live in a large complex, and I took over the lease of a previous subscriber. I currently pay for cable modem service. TWC states that I must pay more than double my current Internet rate to procure the television service that may or may not already be in the clear on my line. Inviting them out just seems like a bad idea.


If you pay only for cable modem service, you have no right to any television service and are technically illegally stealing their service.

Most likely they have a filter on your cable modem line blocking many of the TV frequencies.

The FCC only states the locals must be in the clear for basic cable service - not cable modem service.

Just as they block analog channels from most cable only subs, they have the right to block digital qams as well.

thecyborg, just subscribe to the $7.50 broadcast tier and you will get the major networks in HD minus ABC. You will have the change to get other channels also, like PBS, Discovery HD, etc.

Does anyone have the new Samsung DTB-H260F OTA receiver? I just bought one last night at BB and am so far very pleased with it. It is very close in reception to the LG 5th gen chip in my H20.