Has anyone in the Triad received Navigator yet? Just curious to see if it ha been rolled out to anyone yet.

Hey all - on the entertainment on demand on free on demand they are now showing full lenth shows such as Heroes , Knight Rider and Life.

Hiya Foxeng,

The recent discussion on network bugs made me realize something and I thought I'd mention it.

I realize HDTV is much more "precise" regarding safe action/safe title areas, but many sets (like mine, a DLP RP), have nominal overscan of about 1-2%. Sometimes more or less depending on how it's set up.

I noticed that Fox8, compared to other networks (and I'm not sure if it's local or national level) seem to push that safe title to the extreme, so the bugs and similar slides are usually cut off. I'm watching the news now (6pm news) and it's fine in the lower left (actually way more than fine) likely due to SD, but the HD ones seem truncated a bit...

I'm guessing some of these are done at the network level? But thought I'd mention it.

Hiya Foxeng,

The recent discussion on network bugs made me realize something and I thought I'd mention it.

I realize HDTV is much more "precise" regarding safe action/safe title areas, but many sets (like mine, a DLP RP), have nominal overscan of about 1-2%. Sometimes more or less depending on how it's set up.

I noticed that Fox8, compared to other networks (and I'm not sure if it's local or national level) seem to push that safe title to the extreme, so the bugs and similar slides are usually cut off. I'm watching the news now (6pm news) and it's fine in the lower left (actually way more than fine) likely due to SD, but the HD ones seem truncated a bit...

I'm guessing some of these are done at the network level? But thought I'd mention it.

The bug that is seen during FOX network is located in the splicer and is control by the network. We have no control over its location at all. We have complained about it and FOX says it is within the 16:9 safe title area and they won't do anything about it. It has been like that since day one.

The bug that is seen during FOX network is located in the splicer and is control by the network. We have no control over its location at all. We have complained about it and FOX says it is within the 16:9 safe title area and they won't do anything about it. It has been like that since day one.

Wow -- it's not in the safe title, at least according to my set with the calibration disc (assuming it's accurate). No biggie -- I'd say it's cut off by maybe 2 lines ... but compared to other networks ....

I will admit that is one nice thing about LCD technology, no need for overscan or such.

...
I will admit that is one nice thing about LCD technology, no need for overscan or such.Nor on plasma, but mine has it anywhere.

Just a quick update. We finished all the prep work for the conversion of our auxiliary channel 8 transmitter to digital on Monday. The factory is to be here tomorrow (Wednesday) to start the conversion of the transmitter. If all goes well by Friday we should be ready to broadcast digital on channel 8 if we need to. Whenever the transition happens. I hope to get some overnight time to test it on air. If I can wrangle some time, I will post same here for those who want to see if they can see it.

Anyone have any new HD news. It is the topic of this thead.

Anyone have any new HD news. It is the topic of this thead.

Anything news in particular? http://news.google.com/news?q=hdtv

Anyone have any new HD news. It is the topic of this thead.

Directv added Comedy Central HD today.

Directv added Comedy Central HD today.

Whoopie. Another HD channel that's not ESPNU.

Whoopie. Another HD channel that's not ESPNU.

I know what you mean.

I don't mind Comedy Central in HD but ESPNU HD is at the top of my most requested channel list. Lots of good games on ESPNU.

Directv added Comedy Central HD today.


I kinda want that channel, and I hear tell that South Park is being done in HD from this season on......but what else is shown in HD on there???

I have a few questions about cable that I'm sure some of you can answer.

Where does the cable company get the local station's feeds? Back in the day it was OTA, with antennas cut for each station on the CATV tower. But where do they get it now? Is it still over-the-air, or a direct feed, or from a satellite?

The reason I ask is I'm curious as to what the cable companies had to do to get ready for the analog shut-off.

I'm aware that cable customers won't have to do anything differently on Feb 19, but did the cable companies have to do anything?

Also, what about the screen ratio? Now when a program is available in HD (and 16x9) there's still a 4x3 program on the analog. What happens after Feb for that? Will cable customers using a 4x3 tv get that in letterbox?

And... another question... I read in a blog that in NYC, Time Warner had moved several basic tier stations up to a different frequency that requires a box (at an additional cost, of course). For people that have cable direct into their tv this could not have come at a worse time because they will think it is because of the analog shut off. Does anyone know if TW will be doing anything like that here?

thanks!
-amos

Time-Warner gets fiber feeds and digital OTA for the local stations. Other cableco's in the area get it OTA via digital. Dish and DirecTV both get the digital signals OTA. All cableco's that receive digital OTA downcoverts for the SD version and passes the HD version along for the HD version.

Just an update, we are half way complete in the conversion of our auxiliary transmitter (Boards and wires hanging out right now!! All the analog components have been removed and just about all the digital components have been installed and will be wired tomorrow.). We hope to have it making digital channel 8 into the dummy antenna late tomorrow afternoon if all goes as planned. If not, it will be Friday when we have it making channel 8 digital into the dummy antenna.

this may have already been answered, but will your coverage and power be the same from the aux on digital 8 be the same as when you get the main xmitter converted to digital 8? (and how does it compare with your channel 35 signal?)

-amos

this may have already been answered, but will your coverage and power be the same from the aux on digital 8 be the same as when you get the main xmitter converted to digital 8? (and how does it compare with your channel 35 signal?)

-amos

According to all the data I have seen, the aux site it will be 99.9% of the main channel 8 and the main channel 8 will be a tad bit more than our current channel 35 coverage.

But even though there will be little to no coverage loss on the aux, the FCC is requiring us to run 4 times a day, once in prime time, a message that it is possible that some people will not be able to view us while we operate from the aux site while we convert the main transmitter at the main site. In my opinion, that will cause more confusion, but hey, they require it, so we run it. I think it is basically a CYA for the FCC, but who knows.

Anyway, I have some pictures of the transmitter in the process of being converted. I will try and get one or two posted tonight or tomorrow. Just didn't feel like pulling it from the camera once I got home last night.

I kinda want that channel, and I hear tell that South Park is being done in HD from this season on......but what else is shown in HD on there???

The South Park episode that aired at 10pm and Midnight last night (a repeat of the High School Musical 3 episode) was in HD.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/162078-Comedy_Central_Launches_HDTV_Network.php

Comedy Central HD will offer close to 200 hours of programming in native high definition, including almost 30 past episodes of the Emmy and Peabody Award-winning South Park, the first two seasons of the Emmy-nominated The Sarah Silverman Program and countless hours of stand-up, including the most recent season of the channel's Comedy Central Presents" series, and a number of original and acquired stand-up specials, as well as acquired films.

In addition, upcoming new seasons of network stalwarts South Park (season 13, premiering March 11) and Reno 911" (season 6, premiering April 1) and the series premiere of the epic series, Krod Mandoon and The Flaming Sward of Fire (series premiere April 9) will be presented in native HDTV.

The Emmy and Peabody Award-winning network mainstays, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" and The Colbert Report will initially be unconverted for Comedy Central HD but will be broadcast in native HDTV sometime in the future.

^ I'm pretty sure it was an upconvert, but no sidebars was nice.

I have a 4228HD (not that I buy into the HD thing, but it was what was available). I'm in Summerfield, and have it in my attic (about 30 ft, roughly) pointed due north. (yes, north.)

For whatever reason, I get the best reception pointed that way. I tried it on 30 degree intervals, moved it around, and this was by far the best/most stable orientation. I am using a 7778 CM preamp, into a 2 way splitter. One leg of the splitter goes to the TV room where there is a D* AM21 (the ATSC off air tuner, with 2 tuners so it's split again). The other leg of the first splitter feeds a 4-way house distribution amp.

Again, this setup was tweaked over and over again to find the best performance. (I don't have any diagnostic tools, so need to go by signal/error correction rates reported, and what I see.)

Based on this, I can pull in all the locals (plus PBS out of Durham), plus most of the Roanoke locals. No breakups on any channels noted yet, signal strengths all appear solid.

My only concern is fox, when it moves to VHF. But I still have D* so not that worried.

^ I'm pretty sure it was an upconvert, but no sidebars was nice.

No it wasn't an upconvert. Season 12 of South Park was made in HD originally as season 12 is going to appear on Blu-Ray. Also remember that the press release stated that 30 past episodes of South Park will be shown in HD.

My only concern is fox, when it moves to VHF. But I still have D* so not that worried.

4228's old or new pick up VHF channels. The one I have at the transmitter, a 2002 model, picks up WTVD Durham channel 11 and WDBJ channel 7 Roanoke, not great, but watchable.

For his in-laws summer house in woolwine, va my brother had me pick up a CM 4228 this summer. We haven't had a chance to install it yet. I got one of the last of the old models, as I didn't know yet about the 4228-HD.

According to HDTVprimer.com, "It has no discontinuity in the screen, eliminating the wind VHF problem. It has no vertical wires in the screen, which probably eliminates the dips in the VHF gain."

I read somewhere to connect the two parts of the screen together, maybe with zip ties, and that would help the wind problem on VHF. I figured we would do that.

There are only 2 VHF stations, anyway. WGHP and WBRA. Antennaweb doesn't think we'll get 8, and I don't see how we could get WBRA-3 with the 4228, so it may be a moot point. WGHP is a station they could get in analog, but we've never been able to get it in digital with the old antenna. Also WFMY comes in good with analog, but we can't get their digital signal either.

So, when we put the 4228 up, with a higher mast (not too much though, it gets awfully windy), and a rotor, we're hoping for better reception.

Foxeng you said the old 4228 picks up VHF, but have you noticed any of the wind problems that were mentioned? I was originally thinking we should sell the old 4228 and buy one of the new ones, but after your last post maybe what we have will be fine.

On a somewhat related note, my mom has a 55 year old CM 4221 on the roof in Wadesboro. We took the channel master yagi VHF antenna down, leaving the old and very rusty 4221. The rotor no longer works, so we just pointed it toward Charlotte, and ran a new coax. My mom now gets all the Charlotte stations, both Florence stations off the REAR of the antenna, and WFMY pretty much off the side. She hasn't used OTA in years, but now she's happy to cancel her cable since she usually watches the local stations anyway.

-amos

Foxeng you said the old 4228 picks up VHF, but have you noticed any of the wind problems that were mentioned? I was originally thinking we should sell the old 4228 and buy one of the new ones, but after your last post maybe what we have will be fine.

No I haven't really noticed that but I don't get to spend hours and hours just to watch TV on it when I am work. There have been studies run on the 4228 and it works OK on VHF high channels (7-13) and no real reception on VHF low channels (2-6).

Also for those with OTA out on the fringe, since we have a factory guy here and he has all the tricked out EXPENSIVE test gear we can only dream about, he went through the channel 35 transmitter this afternoon after we had to stop for the day on the channel 8 transmitter conversion with a FINE TOOTHED COMB and tweaked every ounce out of it! Let me know if you see any improvement on reception and less breakup and tiling. Of course you may not see any difference.

And speaking of the channel 8 transmitter, we almost are ready to push some 8VSB through it. One of the low level RF generators didn't work correctly when fired up so we are getting another one in tomorrow and then hopefully we can push some 8VSB through it. For tonight to test the rest of the RF path, we setup the old analog exciter and patched the aural output of it through the system to test the RF preamplifiers and amplifiers. It isn't quite the same as the 8VSB signal, but we could at least test the rest of the path out to be sure there wasn't something else bad and delay this even more since it is looking more and more likely the transition date will not move so we need to be sure we got this puppy ready to rock and roll!

main channel 8 will be a tad bit more than our current channel 35 coverage..

Guess I'll have to put up a Ch-8 cut antenna here at home with a rotor..and try it pointed your way.. then turned south to try for WOLO...:)

Guess I'll have to put up a Ch-8 cut antenna here at home with a rotor..and try it pointed your way.. then turned south to try for WOLO...:)

If you guys moved WOLO back to 25, you wouldn't need a rotor!! :D

Sounds like foxeng is busy, but having fun.

Life is good when you enjoy your work. :)

Good to hear that the transition date seems to be holding.

Joe

If you guys moved WOLO back to 25, you wouldn't need a rotor!! :D

Now Chas.. we already had that discussion! :)Of course, to get either one, I need that big ol' channel 9 down the road from me to go away first! :D

Here is a before and current picture of the aux transmitter. Can you spot the differences?

Analog:
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/dtv_project/2006-10%20-%20Plainfield%20Rebuild/slides/pa130031.jpg

Digital, sans upconverter:
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/0122091704.jpg

Now Chas.. we already had that discussion! :)Of course, to get either one, I need that big ol' channel 9 down the road from me to go away first! :D

T-minus 26 days and counting!! :)

Here is a before and current picture of the aux transmitter. Can you spot the differences?

Analog:
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/dtv_project/2006-10%20-%20Plainfield%20Rebuild/slides/pa130031.jpg

Digital, sans upconverter:
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/0122091704.jpg

Yea lots, where shall we begin?

Yea lots, where shall we begin?

Pick it and go !! :D

Pick it and go !! :D

Let's see...
A lot less coppery looking stuff, a new table, and bottled water for all!;)

Pick it and go !! :DSomebody took out the trash...:D

Let's see...
A lot less coppery looking stuff, a new table, and bottled water for all!;)

Well, yes. That is true. The coppery looking stuff was the analog filters. The digital filter was installed in the rafters. The table moves from place to place where needed and the water? You HAVE to stay hydrated!! :D

The other rack to the left is the channel 35 back up transmitter. We aren't doing anything to that!

Somebody took out the trash...:D

That goes without saying Joe!! :D

Looks like the transition may be delayed. The Senate Commerce Committee is poised to vote next week on a measure to push it back to perhaps June 12.

I can see the future. Some congressperson complaining next year at this time after another extension: "I have at least 10 constituents who are not ready, they need more time, we can not separate them from this vital source of information about all that we screw up around here".

Joe

It will also take a vote of the House as well.

It will also take a vote of the House as well.

Good Point. Of course the votes are almost automatic there.

Joe

Good Point. Of course the votes are almost automatic there.

Joe

Not really. The Senate, as designed, is the one that mostly goes along with whatever comes down the pike. They are the "gentlemen and gentle ladies." The House on the other hand, the way it is designed is 435 street brawlers and you never really know anything will turn out! That is where your Reingold's and Markey's and Barton's and Pelosi's and Murtha's and the like are. The House members represent such small districts they have to throw up a lot of dirt to get noticed unlike a Senator that represents whole states. The House has been called a group of people that is harder to herd than fleas.

I know this next statement is somewhat political, but I think it puts the point on what I am saying. I find it humorous that in the last few days, the press has been spinning how the Founding Fathers created our system to be constantly fighting between the three branches of government, Legislative (Congress), Executive (President) and Judicial (Supreme Court) to explain why the color has so quickly fallen off the Presidential rose. Now they are EXACTLY right that our Founding Fathers did just that (a civics lesson we all should have learned in school). But what they haven't said are these "problems" the new President is having are not new, just been there in EVERY Presidential Administration since President Washington. It is how our democracy works and has for the last 230 years and hence what the transition is facing at the moment. (Sorry. I like history so I try and put some in when I can!)

NAB STATEMENT ON OBAMA TRANSITION TEAM'S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DIGITAL TV TRANSITION

WASHINGTON, DC - National Association of Broadcasters President and CEO David K. Rehr released the following statement today regarding the letter from President-elect Barack Obama's transition team to congressional leaders about the digital television (DTV) transition.

"Today's announcement from President Obama's transition team reaffirms the importance of free and local broadcasting in the fabric of American life.

NAB looks forward to a continuing dialogue with the new White House and new Congress to ensure a successful DTV transition."

That sure makes their position as clear as .... mud.

Joe

NAB STATEMENT ON OBAMA TRANSITION TEAM'S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DIGITAL TV TRANSITION

WASHINGTON, DC - National Association of Broadcasters President and CEO David K. Rehr released the following statement today regarding the letter from President-elect Barack Obama's transition team to congressional leaders about the digital television (DTV) transition.

"Today's announcement from President Obama's transition team reaffirms the importance of free and local broadcasting in the fabric of American life.

NAB looks forward to a continuing dialogue with the new White House and new Congress to ensure a successful DTV transition."

That sure makes their position as clear as .... mud.

Joe

That statement was issued the day the Obama Transition team came out with the request to Congress to push the date. At the time, NAB had no idea what it's membership thought. It is now clear that most stations do not what the date pushed.

That statement was issued the day the Obama Transition team came out with the request to Congress to push the date. At the time, NAB had no idea what it's membership thought. It is now clear that most stations do not what the date pushed.

No doubt. I would think that for small stations the costs of keeping both signals up is significant.

Joe

Just a quick update on our conversion process. The part we were waiting for didn't arrive. It got hung up in Customs at Nashville, TN of all places. It had to come out of Toronto Canada. It might have come in Saturday or will be here tomorrow and then about 2 hours of work and that site will be channel 8 digital ready! Whoo Hoo! Then we just wait for the transition.Once the that happens, we convert the main transmitter and get it on the air and we are done!

No doubt. I would think that for small stations the costs of keeping both signals up is significant.

Joe

Well it depends, but yes, if a station is seen mostly through cable and sat, it is to their bottom line to end analog as soon as possible. For a major network station, if the competition doesn't shut down, they can't shutdown. They would loose too much money.

At this point, I have heard nothing about what this market will do. I imagine it will depend on the owners of the stations and what they want to do more than the local managements. If I had to wager a WAG, I would say the Big 4 and maybe WMYV stay on till the end. I say maybe WMYV because at this point WRAL can't move off channel 53 until both WMYV ceases analog here and WCTI in New Bern moves their digital from 48 to 12 when they cease analog on channel 12. If WCTI doesn't move, WRAL can't move no matter what WMYV does. My guess is WCTI waits it out since their competitors are already on their post transition facilities and all they have to do is turn off analog transmitters and they are done and that keeps WRAL on 53. I would guess WLXI would love to get that old 1981 analog channel 61 transmitter off the air as soon as possible since WLXI-DT has 3 times the coverage at 1/5 the operational cost. Of course money will play into each stations final decision and so who knows if I am right or not.

Personally, I am proceeding as if Congress will not change the date. Now what the higher ups at the station are thinking in the interim, I don't know. They haven't shared it with me yet. Good thing about what we are doing now is we have to have it done before we can transition anyway so whether we do it now or 4 months from now, it still has to be done before the transition. So now is just as good time as any. The rest can't be done until we do transition anyway, whenever it is.

Those are my best guesses.

While WITN isn't yet on the list, many of its sister stations have already filed to kill analog on 02/17/09. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see that happen, which would hurry WCTI and WYDO/WFXI along.

It also depends on when they'll be getting that tower crew in to move the channel 48 antenna.

As for the Greensboro stations, I imagine WLXI and WCWG killing analog at the very least, probably joined by WGPX. (WLXI for reasons foxeng stated, WCWG because of the bankruptcy, WGPX just because) None of them have filed with the FCC to confirm that, of course, but I wouldn't put it past them.

And there's a chance in this economy that some of the big station owners in the market may not want to pay the analog power bill anyway. I wouldn't count on them staying up in the event of a Congressional extension.

- Trip

I saw on Trips site where WIAT was on the list. That is a station in the WNCT family I believe. I'm hoping they can all come to an agreement to go ahead and get on with the transition.

I saw on Trips site where WIAT was on the list. That is a station in the WNCT family I believe. I'm hoping they can all come to an agreement to go ahead and get on with the transition.

It used to be, but isn't anymore. Media-General still owns WNCT but sold WIAT to New Vision when they bought WVTM from NBC.

- Trip

Does anyone know which Scientific Atlanta HD boxes from Time-Warner Greensboro offer HDMI output? I don't need the recorder feature, just a regular HD box. Thank you. :confused:

Scientific Atlanta 4240HDC. Just in case haven't got an answer yet. There might be some other models as well.

Senate OKs 4-month delay to digital TV
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Senate on Monday voted unanimously to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting by four months to June 12 — setting the stage for Congress to pass the proposal as early as Tuesday.
Monday's Senate vote is a big victory for the Obama administration and Democrats in Congress, who have been pushing for a delay amid growing concerns that too many Americans won't be ready for the currently scheduled Feb. 17 changeover.
The Nielsen Co. estimates that more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals could see their TV sets go dark next month if the transition is not postponed.
"Delaying the upcoming DTV switch is the right thing to do," said Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., author of the bill to push back the deadline. "I firmly believe that our nation is not yet ready to make this transition at this time."
The issue now goes to the House, where Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., has vowed to work with House leaders to bring Rockefeller's bill up for a floor vote on Tuesday.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2009-01-26-digital-tv_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Now the House has to vote on their version and then both have to be reconciled and then both chambers vote again and then the President has to sign it. Can all this be done in 20 days?

Now the House has to vote on their version and then both have to be reconciled and then both chambers vote again and then the President has to sign it. Can all this be done in 20 days?

Were I a gambling person, I'd say it'll be done on February 16 and the legislation will tell the FCC they have 15 days to implement the policy. :D

- Trip

Were I a gambling person, I'd say it'll be done on February 16 and the legislation will tell the FCC they have 15 days to implement the policy. :D

- TripIt will be signed into law on Feb 20th, but be retroactive..:confused:

I still think that stations should just start showing a graphic saying "YOU NEED TO GO DIGITAL" on their analog transmissions starting abafter the Pro bowl, or at least go with a graphic lack that used for school closings, etc.

just fyi... I received an email from Time Warner Cable today (standard mailing list) stating that a new website goes live tomorrow (Wed 1/28/09) it mentioned the all new look as well as being able to set DVR recordings via the website in the near future... I recall seeing a commercial either for Tivo or Direct/Dish stating you can already do the DVR recording from the internet... just thought I'd pass along, fwiw.

I recall seeing a commercial either for Tivo or Direct/Dish stating you can already do the DVR recording from the internet... just thought I'd pass along, fwiw.

That's Directv. They've had the ability to set a DVR recording (you can choose the specific DVR is you have more than one) via the Internet using either a computer or mobile phone for quite a while. The DVR itelf doesn't need to be connected to the Internet. The command is sent to the DVR via the satellite signal. FWIW, Dish Network is also working on such a feature.

Just posted on the FCC website: WXLV and WMYV have both filed to terminate analog service on channels 45 and 48 on Feb 17th no matter what Congress decides. These are the only ones currently listed for if the date is pushed back. More could be coming. I don't know.

This means that unless you have cable or sat or a converter box, to continue to watch ABC and My Network after February 17th, you will not be able to on an analog TV.

DTV-Delay Bill Fails To Pass In House
House fails to get needed two-thirds vote
By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable Washington Bureau Chief, January 28, 2009

The House Wednesday failed to follow the Senate's lead and pass a DTV date-change bill, putting the move of the DTV transition date in doubt after all the momentum seemed to be moving toward the four-month delay to June 12.

It was also something of a defeat for the Obama administration, which had pushed Congress to move the date, citing the problems in distributing DTV-to-analog converter box coupons and a lack of funding for DTV education. Republicans pushed back hard, saying it was a solution in search of a problem.

The vote was 258 to 168.

A spokesperson for Energy & Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) had no immediate comment on what the next move will be, but ranking Republican Joe Barton (R-TX) has a bill that would pump more money into the coupon box program without moving the date.

The Senate had passed a compromise bill Monday by unanimous consent, and Waxman had cancelled a markup on his DTV date change bill to get behind the Senate version.

But while no Republican senator opposed the bill, and Kay Bailey Hutchison, the ranking member of the Senate Commerce Committee, actively supported the compromise bill, the House was an entirely different story.

The House had debated the bill Tuesday night, with a parade of Republicans in opposition and only House Telecommunications & Internet Subcommittee Chairman Rick Boucher holding down the fort for the bill's proponents.

The Energy & Commerce Committee's ranking member, Joe Barton, was dead set against moving the date, calling it a potential disaster and saying the $650 million being set aside for reissued coupons for millions of people was a pot of money in search of a problem.

It didn't help that Republican leadership put out a policy statement Tuesday saying "House Republicans oppose any further delay in the deadline."

The momentum had appeared to be clearly in favor of the bill's passage.

Certainly the industry seemed to think the die had been cast. The National Association of Broadcasters, the major networks, wireless companies waiting for reclaimed analog TV spectrum, and the principal ad agency and advertiser lobby groups had gotten behind the change, at least publicly. Barton said many in the media still, privately, were arguing against the move.

After debate on the bill Tuesday night, one Washington TV station was already warning viewers on its Tuesday night newscast that the DTV transition it had been telling them was coming Feb. 17 might be delayed by four months.

House leadership had scheduled a Wednesday vote on the bill on suspension, which is the House's version of an expedited vote with limited debate, no amendments, and a 2/3 majority required for approval. The idea was to get the bill passed as fast as possible given that the DTV date is only three weeks away.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...s_In_House.php

foxeng: you forgot the ":)"

Sounds like Mr. Waxman had a bad nose count.

So TWC has updated their web site. While I would say it's slightly more attractive, I have been unable to find the Programming->Upcoming Changes page which was a nice recent addition. Anyone been able to find this or know if it still exists?

So TWC has updated their web site. While I would say it's slightly more attractive, I have been unable to find the Programming->Upcoming Changes page which was a nice recent addition. Anyone been able to find this or know if it still exists?


http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

Thanks! I knew I should have looked harder! :)

I forgot to pass along to the group, this past Monday we successfully got the backup channel 8 transmitter converted to digital and have been running it into the dummy antenna all week with no problems. It is very strange to have a TV set turned to channel 8 digital and see a picture! I have told people around the station we have two digital signals now, one on channel 35 everyone sees and one on channel 8 that only I can see when I am at the transmitter along with an analog channel 8 everyone else sees. The looks I get are priceless! :D

No decision yet on what we will do if the date is ultimately pushed back. But then we may not be able to turn on digital channel 8 until after the transition or other analog stations vacate. Our digital coverage on channel 8 is based on WSOC no longer being on channel 9 and the other analog channel 8's either vacated or switched to digital. If our digital channel 8 could cause interference to those stations, the FCC may not allow us to go until after the transition. They may be checking and that is why I haven't heard what our plans are. At this point, I just don't have any idea.

I forgot to pass along to the group, this past Monday we successfully got the backup channel 8 transmitter converted to digital and have been running it into the dummy antenna all week with no problems. It is very strange to have a TV set turned to channel 8 digital and see a picture! I have told people around the station we have two digital signals now, one on channel 35 everyone sees and one on channel 8 that only I can see when I am at the transmitter along with an analog channel 8 everyone else sees. The looks I get are priceless! :D

No decision yet on what we will do if the date is ultimately pushed back. But then we may not be able to turn on digital channel 8 until after the transition or other analog stations vacate. Our digital coverage on channel 8 is based on WSOC no longer being on channel 9 and the other analog channel 8's either vacated or switched to digital. If our digital channel 8 could cause interference to those stations, the FCC may not allow us to go until after the transition. They may be checking and that is why I haven't heard what our plans are. At this point, I just don't have any idea.
Glad you are ready... for whenever you get the final OK to make the change to 8 digital. I'm guessing the equipment room is getting warmer as the dummy-load acts as a impromptu space-heater.

Joe L.

Glad you are ready... for whenever you get the final OK to make the change to 8 digital. I'm guessing the equipment room is getting warmer as the dummy-load acts as a impromptu space-heater.

Joe L.

720 watts into a 2.5 kW continuous, I get more heat from the blower on the transmitter and it ain't that hot being sold state with HUGE heat sinks.

Here's your "rabbit ears!"

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/funny-pictures-your-rabbit-ears-no-longer-work.jpg

There are some sick people in this world!

what is WXII-DT doing on their local newscasts? it's obviously a digital picture, because the quality is super. but it's a 4x3 picture inside of the blue bars. if it's HD why isn't it wide screen, too?

the picture looks so good, i don't see how it could be 480i. but i thought HD HAD to be 16x9 (although SD can be upconverted, which doesn't make it HD) am i right on that?

could it be downconverted HD to fit the 4x3 mask? if so, why would they do that? is it a soft launch of their HD newscast? they did the same thing during the olympics (local content, of course network olympics were HD 16x9).


-amos

Maybe because it isn't HD? There are no local stations producing news in HD, yet.

Here's your "rabbit ears!"

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/funny-pictures-your-rabbit-ears-no-longer-work.jpg

There are some sick people in this world!

:eek::D

I'm going to share that one in my local threads!

:eek::D

I'm going to share that one in my local threads!

Go ahead! I got it from an engineering bb!

Maybe because it isn't HD? There are no local stations producing news in HD, yet.


ok, maybe it was a stupid question. and for that i apologize.

but i really don't get it. they're doing SOMETHING, but what is it? how does that picture look so much better than the 480i pic on analog? and, why the 16x9 picture (including the blue bars)?

it's like they're feeding the news in HD but as you said they aren't producing it in HD yet. so what they feed is a 4x3 image inside a 16x9 hd mask? why? just to make me ask questions?

again i'm sorry if this is a dumb question. as you know from my previous questions, i'm no expert, but i do try to understand this stuff.

-amos

ok, maybe it was a stupid question. and for that i apologize.

but i really don't get it. they're doing SOMETHING, but what is it? how does that picture look so much better than the 480i pic on analog? and, why the 16x9 picture (including the blue bars)?

it's like they're feeding the news in HD but as you said they aren't producing it in HD yet. so what they feed is a 4x3 image inside a 16x9 hd mask? why? just to make me ask questions?

again i'm sorry if this is a dumb question. as you know from my previous questions, i'm no expert, but i do try to understand this stuff.

-amos

Analog transmission OTA as specified by the National Television Standards Committee (also known as the NTSC) are based on late 1930's technology, revised as much as possible and still be backwards compatible. And herein lies the problem. For many years, the SD PQ in the studio has been better than what could be broadcast because whatever improvements that were made to the NTSC standard had to be compatible with ANY TV set that operated on the NTSC standard meaning that a NTSC manufactured TV from 1946 has to be able to operate in 2009.

In the digital world, they basically started with a clean slate and those SD images you are seeing is what we in the business have been seeing in house for years. The bandwidth of analog NTSC transmitted pictures are limited to 4.2 MHz. Digital SD is only limited to the bandwidth of the digital stream, which is 360 mbs which has a higher bandwidth resolution with no analog artifacts therefore it appears sharper. In 2003 when we put our current news set on line, posters in this thread asked if we had installed HD cameras because the set looked so sharp on digital. The studio cameras we currently use are 1995 vintage, but they are SD component cameras that go straight to SD digital at the camera head and so they do not have any of the NTSC artifacts and appear sharper than the same analog pictures when viewed via digital. You do a side-by-side comparison. Look at the picture on a digital set at the same time you view them on an analog set. It is the same picture, transmitted two different ways and you can see the NTSC artifacts on the analog where you do not see them on the digital signal.

As far as the difference in aspect ratio, analog transmissions are 4:3. Have been since the start. When digital began, depending on the format being transmitted, determined the aspect ratio of the picture. HD formats use 16:9 formats. Since you can't change resolution formats on the fly, the stations broadcast the same format no matter what the source resolution is. For WFMY, WXII and WCWG it is 1920x1080. For WGHP, WXLV, WMYV, it is 1280x720. Both HD formats use 16:9. For sources that are 480i 4:3, the must be converted to either 1080 or 720 and then either the 480 picture is stretched to fit the 16:9 screen which looks HORRIBLE, people become short and fat when you do that or you kept the 4:3 aspect and put side bars on the side to fill out the 16:9 screen so people don't look short and fat.

thanks!!! some of that, like the backward compatibility, i knew. but you sort of brought it all together for me with that.

just to clarify about the bars (and not changing resolution formats). does that mean that when i'm watching the OTA digital channels, and i see a 4x3 image with black bars, that the station is putting those bars on (as opposed to the tv set doing it?). i thought it was the tv set, but that does explain why one station had grey instead of black bars (i think that was one of the atlanta stations). so wxii is just putting blue bars on during their newscasts, i guess...

noticing their blue bars fooled me into thinking their picture was better than before, but that was only comparing it with the ntsc feed, i understand now.

amos

Yes, the bars are put on by the station.

Anyone know these people?

Super Bowl May Spur Fewer TV Sales as Retailers Fight Slump
By Chris Burrit, Bloomberg - January 30, 2009

With her new 46-inch flat-panel television mounted above the fireplace, Theresa Nelson is ready for the big game.

“I wanted a new TV before the Super Bowl,” said Nelson, a 45-year-old brewery engineer at MillerCoors LLC. She paid $1,499 for the Samsung Electronics Co. TV at the Best Buy in Greensboro, North Carolina. The TV, which replaced her 10-year-old set, was $600 off and better than Circuit City’s price, she said.

Best Buy Co., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and bankrupt Circuit City Stores Inc. are making a last push to sell as many TVs as possible before the Feb. 1 National Football League title game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and Arizona Cardinals. Faced with the worst U.S. job market in almost 16 years and plummeting home prices, fewer people may buy new TVs to watch the game even as retailers offer deep discounts and interest-free loans.

“People are saying, ‘I want to see the Super Bowl in high definition,’” Gary Severson, senior vice president of home entertainment at Wal-Mart, said in a Jan. 23 telephone interview. “Customers are also looking for the best value they can find.”

The week before the Super Bowl is typically a peak for TV sales, and retailers are trying to fight off record lows in consumer confidence. Unemployment is close to a 16-year high, and home prices have fallen 25 percent on average since mid- 2006, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller 20-city index.

Even as more Americans plan to watch the Super Bowl, usually among the highest-rated broadcasts of the year, fewer will buy new TVs to view it, according to a BIGresearch survey for the Retail Advertising and Marketing Association, part of the National Retail Federation, a Washington trade group.

Mostly Food

The online poll of 8,850 adults conducted Jan. 1 through Jan. 8 found that 2.7 percent planned to buy a new TV for the game, down from 4.1 percent in 2008. An estimated 167 million adults may tune in to General Electric Co.’s NBC on Sunday, 9 million more than last year. They’ll spend $9.6 billion for the game, most of it on food and drink, the survey found.

U.S. flat-panel TV sales rose 25 percent to 16.3 million last year, according to NPD Group Inc., a market research firm based in Port Washington, New York. Growth slowed from a 59 percent increase in 2007, signaling that “market saturation and the economy” are eroding demand, said Stephen Baker, a consumer-electronics analyst for NPD.

Retailers in the U.S. sell more TVs during December and January because of the holidays and the Super Bowl, said Baker, who is based in Herndon, Virginia. Stores offer markdowns the week before the big game to exploit the surge, he said.

Newspaper Circulars

Newspaper circulars this week showed five discounted flat- panel TVs from Wal-Mart and six from Target Corp., plus price cuts on 11 sets in the first three pages of Best Buy’s flier. Among 39 flat-panel TVs displayed on the back wall of Wal-Mart’s store in Greensboro, 23 are discounted with “rollback” prices.

“This is the big event that causes them to purchase,” Josh Will, Best Buy’s vice president of televisions, said in a Jan. 28 telephone interview. He wouldn’t disclose January sales. “There’s not a huge urgency in February or March.”

Best Buy has outpaced Wal-Mart on the New York Stock Exchange since Nov. 10, when Circuit City, once the No. 2 U.S. electronics chain, sought bankruptcy protection. Richfield, Minnesota-based Best Buy has climbed 16 percent since then, while Wal-Mart has dropped 13 percent.

“I’m thinking big,” said Wal-Mart customer Tim Overby as he eyed a 42-inch flat-panel TV from Royal Philips Electronics NV. The set is marked down to $798 from $998 this week.

“I want to feel like I’m in the movie theater,” said Overby, 36, who was buying cleaning supplies Jan. 23 for his Greensboro tax-preparation service.

Free Installation

This month Best Buy offered free home installation of flat- panel TVs costing $999 or more “with the Super Bowl in mind,” said Doc Gower, home-theater manager in the Greensboro store.

The average price of a 42-inch plasma flat-panel TV was $902 last year, down from $1,181 in 2007 and $1,706 in 2006, according to NPD. Liquid crystal display TVs of the same size cost $982 last year on average, down 42 percent from $1,693 two years ago.

Wal-Mart, based in Bentonville, Arkansas, increased marketing and cut prices of consumer electronics this year. Its flat-panel TV sales jumped 25 percent the first weekend of January from a year earlier, Chief Executive Officer H. Lee Scott told the National Retail Federation’s annual conference in New York on Jan. 12. The company won’t comment on sales since then, Severson said.

In Greensboro, Overby said he may not be able to watch the game because of his second job as a machine operator at a Tyco International Ltd. factory. Still, he scoured newspaper circulars from Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Circuit City, which is liquidating, for the cheapest price for a big TV.

“Any way I can save money, I’m going to save money.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=exclusive

I meant to post this picture the other day and forgot to. Here is a picture of the completed conversion to digital on the stand by channel 8 transmitter. In the picture it is actually operating into the station dummy antenna even though it is a little tough to see it.

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/P1260001.jpg

“People are saying, ‘I want to see the Super Bowl in high definition,’” Gary Severson, senior vice president of home entertainment at Wal-Mart, said in a Jan. 23 telephone interview. “Customers are also looking for the best value they can find.”

The bad thing about it is a lot of these people that want to buy a HDTV for the Super Bowl won't hook up an HD source to it. Instead they will just stretch the picture and think it is HD.

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090126005514&newsLang=en

The number of US HDTV households, defined as households having both an installed HD-capable TV set and also receiving and watching HD programming, increased by almost 40% in 2008. However, the growth rate could well have been much larger. “In the US, there are more than 39 million households with an installed HDTV set,” according to Mike Paxton, an In-Stat analyst. “However, only 22 million of those are HDTV households, meaning that 17 million US households with an installed HDTV set are not watching HD programming.”

FoxENG, Exactly! As you've noted, no stations are currently broadcasting news in HD so the bars serve no purpose.

The Transition Date delay saga continues. The House has sent the FCC a letter requesting how many stations are operating at their post transition facilities who could turn off analog and not have to stay on analog until the new date arrives. By my count, there are approximately 1200 stations out of approximately 1800 stations that are operating with their post transition facilities. All stations in the Triad except WGHP are among that 1200. WGHP is among approximately 600 stations that need to change channels to complete the transition. 1200 plus 600 equals 1800. The House has requested the FCC provide that information by 3pm Tuesday, Feb 3rd. The letter was written today, Feb 2nd.

Bottom line, unless Congress mandates stations can't shutdown until the new date, something I don't think would stand constitutional muster, Congress can push the date all they want and it may not matter if stations decide to end analog on schedule. Best we (those on AVS) can tell via FCC on line records, approximately 600 stations have already applied for Feb 17th shutdown in case the date is pushed and more are on the way. That is the catalyst for this request of the FCC by the House. They are becoming alarmed at the number of stations preparing to bail out. They see the intent sliding away and they can't do anything about it.

Here is the URL for the letter:

http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/Media/File/News/2.2.09_DTV_Delay_Letter_to_Acting_Chairman_Copps.pdf

Congress changes its mind all thr time, occasionally even in public. ;)

Why do think delaying the shutdown is unconstitutional?

Congress changes its mind all thr time, occasionally even in public. ;)

Why do think delaying the shutdown is unconstitutional?

Mandating stations MUST remain on in analog may be unconstitutional. It is basically saying a company MUST sell a certain product because the government thinks that is a good thing to do.

but only if they want their license to broadcast on public air waves for the public good. I'm not a lawyer, don't even play one on TV, but I think use of the public airwaves issue allows the government to say "Here are the rules. You don't have to like them." They used to require that favorite from my youth, the "pause for station identification."

On a related, one of the Tivo forums, somebody mentioned about transition plans for some stations including low power operations. Since we're talking about competing plans for frequency assignments, this seems like a good place for disaster. Any thought?

On a more distantly related topic, some companies want to starting using unused frequencies, apparently on a per market basis, for other uses. This sounds like disaster to me. John Q has his equipment designed for, say, Wilmington, and leaves it on as he drives to, say Roanoke, knocking out occasional stations along the way. I can see some guy driving up I-95 with the equipment sitting in his trunk, turned on and creating rolling blackous all the way up the coast. Am I right? Any thoughts?

The letter is a hoot. Congress sends it out to Mr. Copps yesterday expecting a detailed reply by 3pm today.

They expect to vote tomorrow on the legislation without any hearings to determine if the plan will work. "Unfortunate", indeed.

Oh, and if Acting Chairman Copps can not provide an exact number of stations that can transition before the delayed date, well how about his best guess.

As my Grandmother from Belfast used to say: "Saints preserve us".

Joe

Sometimes we get what we deserve. Remember this every time you vote.

Since we're talking about competing plans for frequency assignments, this seems like a good place for disaster. Any thought?

On a more distantly related topic, some companies want to starting using unused frequencies, apparently on a per market basis, for other uses. This sounds like disaster to me. John Q has his equipment designed for, say, Wilmington, and leaves it on as he drives to, say Roanoke, knocking out occasional stations along the way. I can see some guy driving up I-95 with the equipment sitting in his trunk, turned on and creating rolling blackous all the way up the coast. Am I right? Any thoughts?

Well we got our first scare today, related to the 2/17 analog cutoff. Our wireless microphones in the 698 and up mh range will be worthless. Oh, did I mention that I am producing Music Man Jr. right now and we open Feb 19?????

Since this has been posted on the FCC website I will post here. WGHP has filed to terminate analog service on channel 8 effective Feb 17th and to cease digital service on channel 35 and begin digital services on our aux tower on channel 8 also on Feb 17th.

Since this has been posted on the FCC website I will post here. WGHP has filed to terminate analog service on channel 8 effective Feb 17th and to cease digital service on channel 35 and begin digital services on our aux tower on channel 8 also on Feb 17th.

So if I have a UHF only antenna I won't get 8 anymore OTA? I do get 8 from Directv.

So if I have a UHF only antenna I won't get 8 anymore OTA? I do get 8 from Directv.

It will depend on the antenna you have and how far away from the tower you are. DirecTV will carry our channel 8 DTV signal.

From CNN.com...
Rabbit ears get reprieve in digital TV delay
American TV viewers have four extra months to get ready for the day their local stations shut down their analog transmitters, thanks to a delay in the digital TV transition approved by Congress Wednesday. The House, by a vote of 264 to 158, passed a Senate bill that would reset the death of analog TV to June 12, a measure President Obama is expected to sign.

(sigh...):(

The FCC claims that 61% of all stations can transition on Feb. 17 without the wait.

Let the confusion begin.

Joe

The FCC's figure is low. I'd guess more like 80% could when you include those like foxeng's station - going back to their old analog assignment for final DTV. How many WILL is an open question.

The FCC's figure is low. I'd guess more like 80% could when you include those like foxeng's station - going back to their old analog assignment for final DTV. How many WILL is an open question.

Maybe we can, maybe we can't. Our channel 8 digital is based on no analog stations on the air. With the extension, the FCC may not now allow us to go on channel 8 digital until June 12th citing analog interference issues. This legislation has given the FCC a legal reason to prevent some stations from transitioning. Are we one of them, I don't know yet. So even though we have filed to shut down on the 17th, the FCC ultimately may not allow us to. We have now been thrown into limbo. As of right now, every station in Triad CAN turn off analog if they want EXCEPT us because all they have to do is turn off an analog transmitter and they are finished with the transition.

It has also been announced the President will sign the bill either today or tomorrow officially pushing the date. Until that happens, and the FCC states what the new rules are, we have to continue as if the 17th is still the date, causing even MORE confusion about the date. What a mess.

Foxeng, couldn't you shut off analog on Feb 17th and then just wait till June 12th to move your digital channel back to VHF? Or is that just something you don't want to do?

Foxeng, couldn't you shut off analog on Feb 17th and then just wait till June 12th to move your digital channel back to VHF? Or is that just something you don't want to do?

I can't speak for management because I don't know they are thinking right now, but from a PR standpoint, since I will be the one directly dealing with it, I would rather not. The confusion factor would keep me on the phone 24/7. "You said digital 8 and then digital 35 and now back to digital 8." I can do without that. :D

Plus I don't know if the FCC will allow that in the new rules. It is all uncharted territory at the moment.

I can't speak for management because I don't know they are thinking right now, but from a PR standpoint, since I will be the one directly dealing with it, I would rather not. The confusion factor would keep me on the phone 24/7. "You said digital 8 and then digital 35 and now back to digital 8." I can do without that. :D

Plus I don't know if the FCC will allow that in the new rules. It is all uncharted territory at the moment.

Believe me - I have a lot of sympathy for you and the others right now - Congress took something that should be (and was scheduled to be) clean and made a mess of it.

Here is a summary of the new transition rules released from the FCC that are valid when the bill is signed by the President.

1 - Stations that wish to terminate their analog signal transmission on February 17, are required to provide notice to the Commission and their viewers. Stations must notify the Commission no later than Monday, February 9, 2009 (11:59 p.m. EST), of their intention to terminate analog service on February 17.

2 - Stations that have already notified the Commission about their intention to terminate on February 17 must again notify the Commission confirming their intent to terminate on that date and their performance of the required viewer notifications.

3 - The Commission reserves the right to limit or reconsider this partial waiver in the event that it determines that analog termination on February 17 by a station or group of stations is contrary to the public interest. In such event, the Commission will promptly notify the affected station or stations.

4 - Stations terminating on February 17 are required to broadcast a crawl on their analog channel regarding the station’s termination of analog service, for the seven day period from February 10 (11:59 p.m. EST) through the termination of the station’s analog signal on February 17 (11:59 p.m. EST).


5 - Stations that terminate their analog service prior to the June 12 transition date, may operate only a digital facility that is approved for pre-transition service. Stations that want to begin operating prior to the transition date on a post-transition digital facility that differs from their pre-transition facility must first file a request for digital Special Temporary Authority (STA) to seek Commission approval for an early transition. A station may request permission to operate its post-transition facility before the transition deadline, provided it demonstrates that it will (1) not cause impermissible interference to any authorized analog or pre-transition digital stations; (2) maintain at least its current digital service; and (3) commence full, authorized post transition operations on the transition deadline. Stations requesting such approval must also indicate whether such early operation would result in loss of their own analog or digital service.

6 - After February 17, stations that wish to terminate analog service before 11:59:59 pm on June 12, 2009 must comply with the requirements in the Third DTV Periodic Report and Order.

7 - Stations that have previously terminated analog service may request permission to resume analog broadcasting. Stations that have already terminated their analog service and desire to resume analog broadcasting must file a request for STA.

8 - Stations that previously notified the Commission that they intend to terminate their analog service on February 16 or earlier, and have not yet done so, must confirm whether they intend to terminate their analog signal prior to February 17 or if they intend to remain on the air with regular programming on their analog channel beyond February 17. These notifications must be submitted no later than Monday, February 9, 2009.

Here is a summary of the new transition rules released from the FCC that are valid when the bill is signed by the President.

1 - Stations that wish to terminate their analog signal transmission on February 17, are required to provide notice to the Commission and their viewers. Stations must notify the Commission no later than Monday, February 9, 2009 (11:59 p.m. EST), of their intention to terminate analog service on February 17.

2 - Stations that have already notified the Commission about their intention to terminate on February 17 must again notify the Commission confirming their intent to terminate on that date and their performance of the required viewer notifications.

3 - The Commission reserves the right to limit or reconsider this partial waiver in the event that it determines that analog termination on February 17 by a station or group of stations is contrary to the public interest. In such event, the Commission will promptly notify the affected station or stations.

4 - Stations terminating on February 17 are required to broadcast a crawl on their analog channel regarding the station’s termination of analog service, for the seven day period from February 10 (11:59 p.m. EST) through the termination of the station’s analog signal on February 17 (11:59 p.m. EST).


5 - Stations that terminate their analog service prior to the June 12 transition date, may operate only a digital facility that is approved for pre-transition service. Stations that want to begin operating prior to the transition date on a post-transition digital facility that differs from their pre-transition facility must first file a request for digital Special Temporary Authority (STA) to seek Commission approval for an early transition. A station may request permission to operate its post-transition facility before the transition deadline, provided it demonstrates that it will (1) not cause impermissible interference to any authorized analog or pre-transition digital stations; (2) maintain at least its current digital service; and (3) commence full, authorized post transition operations on the transition deadline. Stations requesting such approval must also indicate whether such early operation would result in loss of their own analog or digital service.

6 - After February 17, stations that wish to terminate analog service before 11:59:59 pm on June 12, 2009 must comply with the requirements in the Third DTV Periodic Report and Order.

7 - Stations that have previously terminated analog service may request permission to resume analog broadcasting. Stations that have already terminated their analog service and desire to resume analog broadcasting must file a request for STA.

8 - Stations that previously notified the Commission that they intend to terminate their analog service on February 16 or earlier, and have not yet done so, must confirm whether they intend to terminate their analog signal prior to February 17 or if they intend to remain on the air with regular programming on their analog channel beyond February 17. These notifications must be submitted no later than Monday, February 9, 2009.

Well Washington DC at their best once more.


Forget points 1 & 2, #3 is the killer. Says to me that notice is given: Stations, keep your posteriors out of drafts and just chill till until June.

My eyes glaze over trying to make sense out of the rest.

If this kind of stuff had happened back in the dawn of NTSC Howdy Doody never would have made it to the airwaves. My fond memories of Buffalo Bob, Clarabell et. all (at age 4 at the bitter end of the run, hey I'm not that ancient :) ) never could be.

Good luck foxeng.

Joe

Some stations to end analog signal on Feb. 17
Congress gave stations the option to stick with the original transition date
Congress is giving consumers four more months to prepare for the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting but many stations still plan to cut off analog on the original date, less than two weeks away.

Paul Sakuma / AP

updated 6:34 p.m. ET, Thurs., Feb. 5, 2009
NEW YORK - Television viewers who use antennas and were expecting a few more months to prepare for digital TV may not have much time left before their sets go dark: Many stations still plan to drop analog broadcasts in less than two weeks.

When Congress postponed the mandatory transition to digital TV until June, it also gave stations the option to stick to the originally scheduled date of Feb. 17.

That means the shutdown of analog signals, which broadcasters had hoped would happen at nearly the same time nationwide, could now unfold in a confusing patchwork of different schedules.

Lawmakers wanted to address concerns that many households that receive TV signals through an antenna are not prepared for the switch. They were also mindful that a government fund has run out of money to subsidize digital converter boxes for older TVs.

Dozens of stations around the country now say they are going to take advantage of the option to drop analog broadcasts this month.

Many others are on the fence. The total number is likely to be in the hundreds, a substantial chunk and maybe even a majority of the country's 1,796 full-power TV stations.

The House voted Wednesday to delay the mandatory shutdown until June 12. The Senate passed the measure unanimously last week, and the bill now heads to President Barack Obama for his signature.

The legislation means analog signals could vanish entirely in some areas but persist in neighboring regions. In rural areas, low-power stations will continue to broadcast in analog even beyond June 12.

On Thursday, the Federal Communications Commission ordered stations that still plan to turn off analog signals on Feb. 17 to notify the FCC by Monday.

Acting Chairman Michael Copps said the commission could prohibit stations from making the switch if doing so is not in the public interest. For instance, if all stations in a market want to turn off early, that would draw FCC scrutiny, he said at a commission meeting.

For many broadcasters, delaying the shutdown is inconvenient and expensive. Many of them have scheduled engineering work on their equipment to make the transition on Feb. 17.

The Oklahoma Educational Television Authority, the public broadcasting network in the state, said Thursday that it planned to cease analog transmission from its full-power antennas at 1 p.m. on Feb. 17.

"We have four full-power stations all with 30-year-old-plus analog transmitters that are costly to maintain, putting out less than a quality signal," said Mark Norman, deputy director of technology at OETA.

"Sitting right alongside them are brand-new digital transmitters that have been running now for a few years. We just think it's counterproductive to continue to put money into the old ones."

Keeping the analog equipment in operation until June would cost the station about $200,000 at a time when the state is considering cutting its contribution to the budget, Norman said.

PBS spokeswoman Lea Sloan said about half of the 356 public broadcasting stations across the country will make the switch on Feb. 17. Many will do it for financial reasons. PBS said last month that if all its stations had to delay the switch, it would cost an estimated $22 million.

The Utah Broadcasters Association said the commercial stations in the state still plan to shut down analog on Feb. 17, while the public ones will wait until June.

In Wisconsin, at least two stations in Madison and five in the La Cross-Eau Claire plan to flip the switch on Feb. 17. In Minnesota, at least four stations plan to keep that date, along with five in Iowa.

Copps, the acting FCC chairman, said CBS, Fox, ABC and NBC and Telemundo had committed to keeping the stations they own broadcasting analog until June 12.

Together, they own 85 full-power stations, mainly in large cities. The rest of the stations that carry these networks are affiliates not owned by the network. ABC spokeswoman Julie Hoover said some of its stations may still go early if all other stations in their market do so.

Gannett Co. and Hearst-Argyle Television Inc. also pledged to maintain the vast majority of their stations on analog, Copps said. They own or operate 52 stations.

"These broadcasters deserve our gratitude. I encourage other broadcasters to join them," Copps said.

The transition to digital TV is being mandated because digital signals are more efficient than analog ones. Ending analog broadcasts will free up valuable space in the nation's airwaves for commercial wireless services and emergency-response networks.

In a few areas, including Hawaii, stations have already abandoned analog broadcasting.

TVs connected to cable or satellite services are not affected by the analog shutdown. But that still leaves a lot of people who could see channels go dark on Feb. 17. According to research firm MRI, 17.7 percent of Americans live in households with only over-the-air TV.

Most of them are ready for the analog shutdown, according to the National Association of Broadcasters and analysts at the Nielsen Co. Nielsen said Thursday that more than 5.8 million U.S. households, or 5.1 percent of all homes, are not ready.

At the Oklahoma public broadcasting association, Norman believes viewers are ready for the switch. The network has invited viewers to call in with transition questions on several nights. Each time, the number of callers has been smaller, Norman said.

"We really don't think it's going be as major of an issue as people anticipated," he said.

AP Television Writer David Bauder contributed to this report.

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

In the FCC DTV meeting yesterday, the FCC announced that the owners of WFMY and WXII told them they would remain on analog until June. As of right now, I have not heard what our decision is.

Hey guys, I need a little assistance from OTA digital viewers. I know that WLXI 61 is not a main channel for most viewers but if I could get some of you to tune to 61-1 or -2 when you have the opportunity and see if your TV or STB "likes" the channel. The reason I ask is Thompson did an upgrade to our psip generator and now on the GE STB in my office every time I tune to 61-1 the STB reboots (not any other station). Other tv's and stb's we have do not do this only the GE brand. When I analyze our stream, I do not see any errors that would indicate a problem but I would like more data from viewers to help verify this. Thanks Zane, C.E. WLXI 61

Zane,

It comes in fine here in High Point OTA (Samsung SIR-T351 set top box). I don't see any problems.

-amos

edit: 61.1 and 61.2, fine.

interesting items for sale on craigslist:

http://greensboro.craigslist.org/ele/1020922047.html

quote: "All you need to start your own TV station."

well, maybe everything but an FCC license. haha

interesting items for sale on craigslist:

http://greensboro.craigslist.org/ele/1020922047.html

quote: "All you need to start your own TV station."

well, maybe everything but an FCC license. haha

But only if want to start an ANALOG TV station!

But only if want to start an ANALOG TV station!

haha! that's not your old analog stuff is it? haha

In the FCC DTV meeting yesterday, the FCC announced that the owners of WFMY and WXII told them they would remain on analog until June. As of right now, I have not heard what our decision is.


Did WSOC say what they were planning on doing? If i understand correctly you can't run 8 digital until 9 analog is gone, right?

any 8 digital testing during the overnight hours coming up?

haha! that's not your old analog stuff is it? haha

Nope.

Did WSOC say what they were planning on doing?

The Charlotte market has said they will transition on Feb 17th. The only station not on board currently is WCNC.

any 8 digital testing during the overnight hours coming up?

None currently but that is subject to change after all the fall out with the new rules clears. The President has put the bill on the whitehouse.gov site for public comment and will then sign it on Monday.

Zane,

WLXI 61-1 comes in fine here in Lewisville. I'm using a D* AM-21 OTA tuner.

Tribune does not include 61-2 in the OTA list.

Joe

Hey guys, I need a little assistance from OTA digital viewers. I know that WLXI 61 is not a main channel for most viewers but if I could get some of you to tune to 61-1 or -2 when you have the opportunity and see if your TV or STB "likes" the channel. The reason I ask is Thompson did an upgrade to our psip generator and now on the GE STB in my office every time I tune to 61-1 the STB reboots (not any other station). Other tv's and stb's we have do not do this only the GE brand. When I analyze our stream, I do not see any errors that would indicate a problem but I would like more data from viewers to help verify this. Thanks Zane, C.E. WLXI 61

Got it and it looks good on my OTA computer tuner.

Since we have announced on air, WGHP will NOT cease analog broadcasts on Feb 17th. We WILL cease analog broadcasting on June 12th and then switch channels at that time, unless Congress messes with it again.

I did talk to one of the engineers at channel 45/48 this morning and they are still shutting down analog on the 17th. I haven't heard anything from 16/20. Zane??

Currently we will remain on. There are some issues in a couple of markets up north that prevent 2 of our stations from shutting down unless others do and they have announced they were not so our corp decided to leave all their stations on unless there is a major failure between now and June 12.
I was disappointed, I am looking forward to shutting down the Comark.
Thanks for the replies on the OTA question.
All that said I guess Mediaflo can't fire up around here until June 12.

Since we have announced on air, WGHP will NOT cease analog broadcasts on Feb 17th.

Bummer! :(

Bummer! :(

Right now the only known stations in the market to shutdown will be WXLV and WMYV. I haven't heard what WGPX and WCWG is doing (What is UNC doing? I haven't heard?). If I see the 5 min crawls on Tuesday, I will know.

I had heard that WGSR-LP (A-39/D-47) out of Reidsville was desperately trying to get their digital companion channel on air by the 17th to not be left out when the rest of us went, but they weren't going to make it by then. Something about equipment delivery issues.

I heard UNC is keeping their analogs up.

As for WGSR-LP, hopefully this added time will allow them to get their signal on the air.

- Trip

Honestly at this point the June 12th transition looks to be a much bigger mess than the Feb. 17th one would have been. I'm going to predict now that Congress will once again extend the deadline beyond June 12th and possibly into next year.

Honestly at this point the June 12th transition looks to be a much bigger mess than the Feb. 17th one would have been. I'm going to predict now that Congress will once again extend the deadline beyond June 12th and possibly into next year.

Where are you coming from with this opinion.

02/17/2009 was a date certain. After years of consideration.

Certain leaders should leave things as found. Hard to resist the power after the change.

May our grandchildren not have to pay for too much. I'm in a doubtful mood on that issue.

Joe

Honestly at this point the June 12th transition looks to be a much bigger mess than the Feb. 17th one would have been. I'm going to predict now that Congress will once again extend the deadline beyond June 12th and possibly into next year.

On the other hand,

Understand your point.

Sorry, did not mean to insult.

They might just do what you envision. I'm a little on edge these days. The thought of a 1 Trillion deal added, well a lack of faith in the wisdom of Washington is indicated.

Joe

:confused: K... I live in Wilkesboro NC and I have a rotary antenna that stands about 24 feet tall on the roof of my house. The stations (analog) that I can get in WITHOUT using the converter box are (CBS) WBTV, (FOX) WGHP, (ABC) WSOC, and (NBC) WXII. When I turn on my digital converter box and do the automatic scan I only get WXII 12.1 12.2 and some UNC channels. I tried manually putting in other numbers like 8.1 for FOX etc. and there is no signal for any of the other channels. Can anyone please tell me if these are the only stations I will get in once the switch has been made?

You may need to point your antenna towards the station you want to watch and for the first time enter the actual channel number so the converter box will lock on it. The only Triad station that will make changes after the transition will be WGHP from UHF channel 35 back to channel 8 when we cease analog broadcasting on June 12th.

For the Triad, the actual channel numbers for the stations are as follows:

Sauratown Mt - north of Winston-Salem
WXII - 31
WUNL - 32

North of Asheboro
WFMY - 51
WGHP - 35 moving to back to 8 June 12th
WCWG - 19
WXLV - 29
WMYV - 33
WLXI - 43

WBTV is on channel 23 and WSOC is on channel 34 and those stations will remain there after the transition.

In all seriousness back when Feb 17th was announced as the "final" date, the first thought that went through my head was "Congress will delay this date". Since I foolishly didn't post this here, and I feel it's very likely that June 12th won't stick either, I went ahead and posted that I think they'll delay it again.

Please don't think that I am in favor of delaying it. I am furious that they delayed the Feb. 17th date. But, I think there will likely be even more confusion and turmoil as we get close to June and I wouldn't at all be surprised if they delay it further.

The Senate Republicans have said they will not go along with another delay and the wireless companies who are waiting for the spectrum say they will also not go along with another delay like they did this time. There is an even bigger problem. CEA has said there may not be any converters left by June 12th. If that is the case, there is no need to delay any longer. I suspect June 12th is the final date.

The Senate Republicans have said they will not go along with another delay and the wireless companies who are waiting for the spectrum say they will also not go along with another delay like they did this time. There is an even bigger problem. CEA has said there may not be any converters left by June 12th. If that is the case, there is no need to delay any longer. I suspect June 12th is the final date.

I'll be happy to be wrong. :)

TWC has updated their website here in the Triangle and USA,SCIFI, BRAVO and CNBC's HD channels will all be added here Feb 13 as well as Telemundo. Since they have added channels at the same time throughout the state recently I would guess that Greensboro will see them at the same time. TWC has not updated the Triad channel change page yet though.

Notice they have moved the date now to February 15th now. So by my count these additions bring the number to 34 HD channels on TWC.

Too bad we don't have FIOS or U-Verse here...notice TWC announced 100 channels in NY today - mostly likely because of the competition.

You may need to point your antenna towards the station you want to watch and for the first time enter the actual channel number so the converter box will lock on it. The only Triad station that will make changes after the transition will be WGHP from UHF channel 35 back to channel 8 when we cease analog broadcasting on June 12th.

For the Triad, the actual channel numbers for the stations are as follows:

Sauratown Mt - north of Winston-Salem
WXII - 31
WUNL - 32

North of Asheboro
WFMY - 51
WGHP - 35 moving to back to 8 June 12th
WCWG - 19
WXLV - 29
WMYV - 33
WLXI - 43

WBTV is on channel 23 and WSOC is on channel 34 and those stations will remain there after the transition.

I tried every direction and WGHP FOX 8 just will not come in. The crazy thing is when I don't use the digital converter box and go analog WXII 12 and WGHP FOX 8 are the most clearest channels I get. I am having no luck getting in any digital channels in the direction of Greensboro/Winston Salem and they are actually closer to me than the Charlotte towers. I was able to get in WSOC and WBTV. To be honest I have noticed the reception from FOX 8 has gotten alot worse here just within the last 8 months. I hate it too because it is my favorite channel:(

I tried every direction and WGHP FOX 8 just will not come in. The crazy thing is when I don't use the digital converter box and go analog WXII 12 and WGHP FOX 8 are the most clearest channels I get. I am having no luck getting in any digital channels in the direction of Greensboro/Winston Salem and they are actually closer to me than the Charlotte towers. I was able to get in WSOC and WBTV. To be honest I have noticed the reception from FOX 8 has gotten alot worse here just within the last 8 months. I hate it too because it is my favorite channel:(

What kind of antenna do you have? Is it VHF only? The digital stations are on UHF, with WGHP moving back to VHF when the transition is completed in June. If you have a VHF only antenna, it will not pick up the UHF stations.Also, do you have splitters in your line? Do you have an antenna preamplifier in line? These all can effect reception.

Right now the only known stations in the market to shutdown will be WXLV and WMYV. I haven't heard what WGPX and WCWG is doing (What is UNC doing? I haven't heard?). If I see the 5 min crawls on Tuesday, I will know.

I had heard that WGSR-LP (A-39/D-47) out of Reidsville was desperately trying to get their digital companion channel on air by the 17th to not be left out when the rest of us went, but they weren't going to make it by then. Something about equipment delivery issues.


WCWG is continuing analog until June (Or whenever, or if ever analog does truely go away *%^$^^%$)($@@). This was directly from their chief engineer 5 days ago.

And no, foxeng and I are not the same people. He graciously allowed me to copy his disclaimer.

WCWG is continuing analog until June (Or whenever, or if ever analog does truely go away *%^$^^%$)($@@). This was directly from their chief engineer 5 days ago.

And no, foxeng and I are not the same people. He graciously allowed me to copy his disclaimer.

I heard that yesterday. Thanks. It looks like the only stations going dark here on the 17th are the Sinclair stations, WXLV and WMYV. After checking the FCC site, those are the only ones listed for this market.

Has anyone heard how things are going with the transition in the Wilmington area?

All quiet there as far as I can tell.

All quiet there as far as I can tell.

Imagine that.

Joe

Makes you wonder if the FCC will force some of the analogs back on the air in Wilmington and Hawaii to make Sen Rockefeller happy?

I'm going to predict now that Congress will once again extend the deadline beyond June 12th and possibly into next year.

I going to have to agree with you.
As long as one person somewhere whines loudly enough, some politician afraid of losing a vote will try to push it back.

Welcome to America 2009! :rolleyes:

I was looking at the FCC list of stations that will cease analog on Feb 17th for our market. The FCC lists WXLV and WMYV as previously listed here. It is also saying they will nightlight as well for 30 days. No one else in the market applied for early termination of analog services.

Here is the FCC URL for the list of the country by markets:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf

Since this is a HD thread does anyone have any news on upcomeing HD channels in North Carolina?

I heard that yesterday. Thanks. It looks like the only stations going dark here on the 17th are the Sinclair stations, WXLV and WMYV. After checking the FCC site, those are the only ones listed for this market.

WCWG is the station on analog channel 20 that we have to protect from our channel 20 digital. Now, our antenna will not be installed until late march because of the $%%^ analog extension, and our power levels will be so weak with the new antennas pattern spilling into that market that we will be lucky to pick it up in master control only 30 miles from the transmitter site.

That is going to cost a large chunk of change, as the antenna crew is now de-rigging the tower and packing it all up and moving to another job, and we will now have to pay more mobilization fees to get them back to finish the job, &()^%^^.

FOXENG, It looks like I will be a regular lurker here, for the ones in my area do not like my opinions, so I refuse to post anything else on the Roanoke forum. Some of them are like a group of ostriches that like to bury their head in the sand and ignore the truth. You can either welcome me, or tell me to get lost !!

They seem to think that they know more about the issues than I do, but they most likely do not get updates from the NAB, the VAB, and our legal team of FCC lawyers on a daily basis like I do. I can do without them, and I plan to do so.

What is your opinion on the blue and white dot issue.?

I was looking at the FCC list of stations that will cease analog on Feb 17th for our market. The FCC lists WXLV and WMYV as previously listed here. It is also saying they will nightlight as well for 30 days. No one else in the market applied for early termination of analog services.

Here is the FCC URL for the list of the country by markets:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf

All of the stations in this market agreed to shut down about 4 weeks ago until Rick Boucher got his appointment as the telecommunications chair, and the extension came along. Then the VHF stations decided to stay on because of the minimum power costs, so we were basically forced to stay on too, as to not be the black sheep in this market.

Rick Boucher is the 9th district congressman, and our signals cover half of his district, so everyone thought it would be a good idea to do a little smooching here. We have two analog hogs, and I don't have to mention a dollar figure here for you to know how much the power bill alone will be for two analog hogs.

FOXENG, It looks like I will be a regular lurker here, for the ones in my area do not like my opinions, so I refuse to post anything else on the Roanoke forum. Some of them are like a group of ostriches that like to bury their head in the sand and ignore the truth. You can either welcome me, or tell me to get lost !!

Hang out here as long as you don't kill us!! :D

They seem to think that they know more about the issues than I do, but they most likely do not get updates from the NAB, the VAB, and our legal team of FCC lawyers on a daily basis like I do. I can do without them, and I plan to do so.

Well, many seem to think that! We have a pretty good bunch of folks on here. They do get a little opinionated at times (so do I!) but that is OK. I usually learn something myself!

What is your opinion on the blue and white dot issue.?

Some stations are having it and some aren't. I don't know if it is a feed issue or a splicer issue. I haven't seen it here, but I haven't been looking for it. I should but I have some tower light issues I am working on now and by the time I get home at night, TV isn't the first thing I want to do.

I first thought it was a promo thing for Sarah Conner Chronicles like they ran last year but then when I saw a screencap of it, I knew that wasn't it. No one on this thread has complained about it, yet. :)

[QUOTE=foxeng;15795167]Hang out here as long as you don't kill us!! :D

I promise I won't kill anyone. I know this is a question and answer forum, and I realize that most users don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes in this industry. It is funny to think about some of their suggestions and think about how much money would be involved to implement some of their seemingly simple suggestions.

Notice they have moved the date now to February 15th now. So by my count these additions bring the number to 34 HD channels on TWC.

Too bad we don't have FIOS or U-Verse here...notice TWC announced 100 channels in NY today - mostly likely because of the competition.

Date has changed back to the 13th now.

I promise I won't kill anyone. I know this is a question and answer forum, and I realize that most users don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes in this industry. It is funny to think about some of their suggestions and think about how much money would be involved to implement some of their seemingly simple suggestions.

Yeah, I have to hold my tongue too!

Since this is a HD thread does anyone have any news on upcomeing HD channels in North Carolina?

See the thread below mentioning new channels coming on February 13th. You are correct this thread has become less and less about HD and more about equipment etc...

Well, now I don't have anything to celebrate on my birthday next Wednesday...

Well, now I don't have anything to celebrate on my birthday next Wednesday...

It's not much, but I will wish you happy birthday then!

Thank you foxeng! (sigh) I was just looking forward to being "digitized" on my birthday - I had a whole theme set up and everything ;)

Well, now I don't have anything to celebrate on my birthday next Wednesday...

How about just have a great day?

The idiots running things will ..... whatever .

Our prayers are still with you.

Joe

[QUOTE=foxeng;15795167]Hang out here as long as you don't kill us!! :D

I promise I won't kill anyone. I know this is a question and answer forum, and I realize that most users don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes in this industry. It is funny to think about some of their suggestions and think about how much money would be involved to implement some of their seemingly simple suggestions.

Might be a bit confusing, FOX TV, with foxeng as our leader, but since he has no concerns, welcome.

I have learned much here. As important as the broadcast industry is the understanding about how it all comes together and all the pressures of late changes make your input a value.

Joe

Might be a bit confusing, FOX TV, with foxeng as our leader, but since he has no concerns, welcome.

No worries. FOX TV got on a soap box about the digital delay on the Roanoke thread (gee, who have you seen doing THAT before? :eek: [as he looks away innocently red faced]) and some of the more radial posters got out of hand. I agree with everything he said. He just needs a refuge now and we are a pretty understanding bunch of folk here and since those of us who live in the northern parts of the market can see the Roanoke FOX station, it will be nice to have someone who knows what is happening there on here as well!

I think it will all work out just fine. Welcome FOX TV to the Greensboro thread! :)

Last night after the President signed the bill delaying the digital transition the FCC released its list of stations approved to terminate analog on Feb 17th and both WXLV and WMYV were approved. No other stations in the market asked for early termination. The 100 or so stations not approved will need to file show cause by midnight tomorrow (Friday) night.

No worries. FOX TV got on a soap box about the digital delay on the Roanoke thread (gee, who have you seen doing THAT before? :eek: [as he looks away innocently red faced]) and some of the more radial posters got out of hand. I agree with everything he said. He just needs a refuge now and we are a pretty understanding bunch of folk here and since those of us who live in the northern parts of the market can see the Roanoke FOX station, it will be nice to have someone who knows what is happening there on here as well!

I think it will all work out just fine. Welcome FOX TV to the Greensboro thread! :)

Thanks for the "Safe Haven", I do have a question about the FOX splicer rebuild. Have you heard any updates on when this is going to happen? We had a date of late January, but it has been put off until late march. If the DOTS issue is in the splicer, it will be nice to see that upgrade finally happen.

Thanks for the "Safe Haven", I do have a question about the FOX splicer rebuild. Have you heard any updates on when this is going to happen? We had a date of late January, but it has been put off until late march. If the DOTS issue is in the splicer, it will be nice to see that upgrade finally happen.

I saw something the other day from FOX saying they are packaging the docs for it now and hope to start soon in the deployment. If they plan on getting them all on line pre-NFL, they better get hopping pretty darn quick.

Date has changed back to the 13th now.

When you did your HD count did you count the two HBO's the two Cinemax hd, the two Showtimes Hd, Starz hd, Movie Channel HD plus the 4 Hd channels in the HD pack plus the HD Showcase channel? I say this because I know everyone does not subscribe to these but they are offered. Also their is a HD on demand ppv channel and 2 or 3 sports season pass channels.Counting these plus uncg hd and the 4 we get tomorrow I get 55 channels if my count is correct.

Yeah TWC has truly made great strides in terms of HD channels in the last 18 months. While the delta between D* and TWC may still be a large number of channels, it's really quite small in terms of channels I actually care about, and as far as I know D* still doesn't have ESPNU, which frankly I care more about than any of the channels I still want on TWC. After tomorrow the list of channels I want will only consist of:

AMC HD
BBC America HD
FX HD (I guess)
Spike HD (I guess)

.... can't really think of any others. With D* raising their rates soon, they'll probably stay slightly more than TWC for what I get now.

Now that TWC is giving away the tuning adapters I am contemplating buying an HD Tivo, paying for the "lifetime" of service and dropping the $17/month off of my cable bill (for the HD-DVR) which will pay for the Tivo in 3-4 years. I also really need to drop Showtime until Dexter season 4 as my wife and I just don't like any of their other shows and their movie selection is comically bad. I'm just scared to death that TWC will start capping my internet.

Yeah TWC has truly made great strides in terms of HD channels in the last 18 months. While the delta between D* and TWC may still be a large number of channels, it's really quite small in terms of channels I actually care about, and as far as I know D* still doesn't have ESPNU, which frankly I care more about than any of the channels I still want on TWC. After tomorrow the list of channels I want will only consist of:

AMC HD
BBC America HD
FX HD (I guess)
Spike HD (I guess)

.... can't really think of any others. With D* raising their rates soon, they'll probably stay slightly more than TWC for what I get now.

Now that TWC is giving away the tuning adapters I am contemplating buying an HD Tivo, paying for the "lifetime" of service and dropping the $17/month off of my cable bill (for the HD-DVR) which will pay for the Tivo in 3-4 years. I also really need to drop Showtime until Dexter season 4 as my wife and I just don't like any of their other shows and their movie selection is comically bad. I'm just scared to death that TWC will start capping my internet.

Give me FOX NEWS HD and BBC AMERICA HD and I would have all the HD Channels I care about.

Now that TWC is giving away the tuning adapters I am contemplating buying an HD Tivo, paying for the "lifetime" of service and dropping the $17/month off of my cable bill (for the HD-DVR) which will pay for the Tivo in 3-4 years. I also really need to drop Showtime until Dexter season 4 as my wife and I just don't like any of their other shows and their movie selection is comically bad. I'm just scared to death that TWC will start capping my internet.

Hold off on that thought. As of right now, we don't know where TWC Greensboro stands on the TA. Over on tivocommunity forums, people are having a fit because TWC is dragging there feet on the TA. For Raleigh, there had annouced that they were releasing the TA, then put that on hold because of billing computer issues, and then they announced that they may be mailing letters out for people to re-register on the website to place a TA order. So, I don't know how that affects TWC-Greensboro, but it sounds like a mess already. I have emailed TWC to find out when the release date is for the TA. I will let you know what I find out.

If Time Warner would give us the improved Navigator, Fox News HD, BBC America HD and a couple like FX and TMC I would be very happy with them.

Hold off on that thought. As of right now, we don't know where TWC Greensboro stands on the TA. Over on tivocommunity forums, people are having a fit because TWC is dragging there feet on the TA. For Raleigh, there had annouced that they were releasing the TA, then put that on hold because of billing computer issues, and then they announced that they may be mailing letters out for people to re-register on the website to place a TA order. So, I don't know how that affects TWC-Greensboro, but it sounds like a mess already. I have emailed TWC to find out when the release date is for the TA. I will let you know what I find out.

jacksonian here in Greensboro has already had one installed. I wouldn't make a move on a Tivo for a few months in any event as money is tight here right now.

On another note, the Universal HD channels are all up and running on TWC as promised.

I thought we were getting the scifi channel in HD today. I'm watching it now and it is not in HD.

Relax. Sci-Fi HD doesn't air every program in HD. When I checked on it, they were showing BSG and it was definitely in HD. At least NBCU doesn't stretch everything like the Turner channels do.

Ok, thanks for that info. When I was watching, Enterprise was on and not HD. Was kind of bewildered by that. Have not had a chance to watch since then.

Ok, thanks for that info. When I was watching, Enterprise was on and not HD. Was kind of bewildered by that. Have not had a chance to watch since then.

Sci-Fi has never carried Enterprise in HD. Only HDNet has Enterprise in HD at this point.

For folks in the triad area, this direct link has updates about what is going on at Time Warner with the new channels :

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

Yay, new HD channels for TWC!

USA HD is pretty good. Movies are HD and I don't see as many annoying pop-ups as the Turner stations.

Still thinking of going Dish but have to see how to have cable runs wired in my town house.

Hold off on that thought. As of right now, we don't know where TWC Greensboro stands on the TA. Over on tivocommunity forums, people are having a fit because TWC is dragging there feet on the TA. For Raleigh, there had annouced that they were releasing the TA, then put that on hold because of billing computer issues, and then they announced that they may be mailing letters out for people to re-register on the website to place a TA order. So, I don't know how that affects TWC-Greensboro, but it sounds like a mess already. I have emailed TWC to find out when the release date is for the TA. I will let you know what I find out.


I got a call Saturday night about my tuning adapter(thought I would have my Tivo HD by now but havent got it) but she told me I could set it up for install by Wednesday this week if I wanted.

I got a call Saturday night about my tuning adapter(thought I would have my Tivo HD by now but havent got it) but she told me I could set it up for install by Wednesday this week if I wanted.

Make sure your Tivo HD has the 11.x version software. When you buy a Tivo, it normally has 8.x on it and the tuning adapter is not listed in the menu. Are they going to install the cablecards on Wednesday as well?

Make sure your Tivo HD has the 11.x version software. When you buy a Tivo, it normally has 8.x on it and the tuning adapter is not listed in the menu. Are they going to install the cablecards on Wednesday as well?

I'll do that thanks for the info. and I'm not sure if they are or not but I would assume if you needed one then it would be simple enough for them to do both on the same day.

I'll do that thanks for the info. and I'm not sure if they are or not but I would assume if you needed one then it would be simple enough for them to do both on the same day.

TWC is only going to install what you have asked for. Don't assume that if they are installing a TA that they will have the cablecards for installation. Most techs don't carry extra cablecards. The one that did my install, he only brought 2 cablecards with him and 1 did not work. So, he had to go back to the shop to get some extra cablecards. So, I would call TWC back and mention that you need cablecards installed in the Tivo as well.

The DTV transition for NASCAR fans !! Open the attatchment for a summary of the DTV transition NASCAR style !!

TWC is only going to install what you have asked for. Don't assume that if they are installing a TA that they will have the cablecards for installation. Most techs don't carry extra cablecards. The one that did my install, he only brought 2 cablecards with him and 1 did not work. So, he had to go back to the shop to get some extra cablecards. So, I would call TWC back and mention that you need cablecards installed in the Tivo as well.

I'm confused. If you have a Tivo you need TWC to install a tuning adapter AND cable cards?

I'm confused. If you have a Tivo you need TWC to install a tuning adapter AND cable cards?

Yes. You have to have the cablecards to receive all of you cable channels. The tuning adapter lets the Tivo view the SDV channels.

The DTV transition for NASCAR fans !! Open the attatchment for a summary of the DTV transition NASCAR style !!

It would be funny if it wasn't true.

I have a question. Will Tivo work with Time Warner Digital phone or do you need a regular land line?

I have a question. Will Tivo work with Time Warner Digital phone or do you need a regular land line?

Tivo will not work with a Time Warner digital phone line, but the Tivo does have a network connection and a phone connection on the back. So you can plug in a network cable from your router, use a Tivo USB Wireless adapter, or use a landline phone line.

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/technicalsupport/networkingandphoneconnections/index.html

TWC is only going to install what you have asked for. Don't assume that if they are installing a TA that they will have the cablecards for installation. Most techs don't carry extra cablecards. The one that did my install, he only brought 2 cablecards with him and 1 did not work. So, he had to go back to the shop to get some extra cablecards. So, I would call TWC back and mention that you need cablecards installed in the Tivo as well.

oh I know that they only do what you ask them I was saying IF you needed both I dont see why they wouldnt do both had you set it up that way. The woman told me that I would need a cable card as well.

Tivo will not work with a Time Warner digital phone line, but the Tivo does have a network connection and a phone connection on the back. So you can plug in a network cable from your router, use a Tivo USB Wireless adapter, or use a landline phone line.

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/technicalsupport/networkingandphoneconnections/index.html
wow didnt know that. any particular reason why it wont work with the TWC digital phone??

wow didnt know that. any particular reason why it wont work with the TWC digital phone??

Work's fine with TWC digital phone. One of my Tivo HD's is installed using a phone line to the 721-XXXX Winston-Salem number and haven't had a problem with connection.

i haven't been able to get my tivo to work with skype-out, using a d-link skype adaptor.

does anybody have a way to make that work?

As of midnight, both WXLV and WMYV are now night lighting on their analog channels and English and Spanish NAB DTV Transition program that is looping about what people need to do if they aren't ready. Their sister stations, WLFL and WRDC Raleigh are also night lighting. No other station has transitioned in the market as of 12:20 am.

And absolutely no farewell message or anything like that. :(

I'm used to switchovers - I grew up in the UK and I lived in an area where the local commercial channel provider had their license reassigned to another company - twice - so on 1 Jan 1982 I watched the handover from Southern to TVS and then again on 1 Jan 1993 from TVS to Meridian.

I was expecting something a bit more impressive. WLFL, WXLV and WMYV could have at least said byebye and played the national anthem or something. But nope, finish the programming for that hour, make sure the adverts get played, and then into nitelite service.

(first post here, stumbled across here looking for TV transition stuff. Looks a good board here...)

Mark.

It is appearing that most stations that do not do local news, pretty much did an abrupt switch. Many stations news departments have linked their transition with their newscasts. WXLV and WMYV do not have local news departments along with WLFL and WRDC in Raleigh.

I haven't got it confirmed yet, but the Sinclair stations in Asheville, WLOS channel 13 ABC, does have a news department and fights pretty hard with the CBS and NBC stations there, unlike the other markets, is not night lighting but staying on till June and their channel 40 WMYA is night lighting.

And welcome to the thread mwooldri!!

As of midnight, both WXLV and WMYV are now night lighting on their analog channels and English and Spanish NAB DTV Transition program that is looping about what people need to do if they aren't ready. Their sister stations, WLFL and WRDC Raleigh are also night lighting. No other station has transitioned in the market as of 12:20 am.I was curious as to how TWC would provide the analog versions. I found the analog ABC(WXLV) on TWC channel 7 is delayed about 3 seconds from the digital version on channel 530. It is also just the center-portion (4x3 aspect ratio) of the digital version.

I suppose that is better than most alternatives. It is less likely to drive the customer away than letterboxing the full 16x8 signal would on their older sets.

Joe L.

TWC has been taking the digital signals of the stations and downconverting them to analog 4:3 since the middle of December. DirecTV and Dish have also been taking the digital signals and downconverting them for analog 4:3 as well.

And you didn't even know it! :D

And absolutely no farewell message or anything like that. :(

I'm used to switchovers - I grew up in the UK and I lived in an area where the local commercial channel provider had their license reassigned to another company - twice - so on 1 Jan 1982 I watched the handover from Southern to TVS and then again on 1 Jan 1993 from TVS to Meridian.

I was expecting something a bit more impressive. WLFL, WXLV and WMYV could have at least said byebye and played the national anthem or something. But nope, finish the programming for that hour, make sure the adverts get played, and then into nitelite service.

(first post here, stumbled across here looking for TV transition stuff. Looks a good board here...)

Mark.Actually, I remember when TV stations signed off after the 11 PM news with the same film clip that we used to occasionally see in theatres (still be used on DOD base movie theatres as of the mid 80's). It was a B&W clip of the US flag, withe the national anthem being played.

Well a couple local stations have gone digital and no riots and no one died.

A good friend of mine summed up my feelings on the Digital Transition. I convinced him to buy a new 32" TV a couple months back. His options at the time were to go with a converter box or basic cable.
He feels like the ads and press keep making the transition sound like a bad thing to most people. He has gone from about 6 relatively clear, but somewhat snowy analogue channels to 12 or more crystal clear digital channels. He told me yesterday that they don't watch any of the analogue feeds anymore since the digital stations look so much better.
If more people could have seen the transition as a positive maybe it would be done by now. Plus, since he gets WDBJ 7.1 and 7.2 from Roanoke he gets to choose whether to watch Va Tech Vs VA or State vs Carolina tonight.
The only station he has any trouble getting digitally is FOX8. He's in Reidsville. This will probably be rectified as soon as FOX8 can return to DIGITAL 8.1 at full power.

Is the Fox 8 signal on digital 35 not at full strength? We're in Rockingham Co. near Stoneville, and cannot get Fox, but our Terk amplified flat panel indoor antenna is getting the digital signals for 2,12,16,20,45, and 48 beautifully. According to TVFool, the Fox transmitter is only a few miles further away than the 45/48.

We also can't get PBS 4 or 26, and have been told that's because their signal is weak, and that even an outside antenna wouldn't help. Analog 8, 4, and 26 have always been poor quality (except when the geese are flying low, or whatever bounces us a good signal once in a while). Sort of hate to bother with an outside antenna just for the 3 hours a week that we watch Fox. Just to finish carping, we can pick up pretty decent analog signals for VA PBS and Fox from Roanoke, but not their digital. Ah, progress!

I'm just north of Greensboro, right across the county line in Rockingham County, and I'm not picking up ANY digital signals on a new HDTV with an indoor digital antenna. I've rescanned about five times now.

'Twould be nice to get 45 digital for Lost tonight :)

I haven't got it confirmed yet, but the Sinclair stations in Asheville, WLOS channel 13 ABC, does have a news department and fights pretty hard with the CBS and NBC stations there, unlike the other markets, is not night lighting but staying on till June and their channel 40 WMYA is night lighting.

And welcome to the thread mwooldri!!

WMYA did flip the switch off of analog last night (broadcasting digital only). WLOS was going to flip the switch last night, as well, but WLOS mentioned late last week that if they turned the analog signal off at their main tower atop Mt. Pisgah, they'd have to do the same to their analog translator system. So, WLOS' analog remains on until June 12th.

Is the Fox 8 signal on digital 35 not at full strength? We're in Rockingham Co. near Stoneville, and cannot get Fox, but our Terk amplified flat panel indoor antenna is getting the digital signals for 2,12,16,20,45, and 48 beautifully. According to TVFool, the Fox transmitter is only a few miles further away than the 45/48.

We are at full power on channel 35 at 1 million watts. Indoor antennas can be very finicky on digital, much more than analog so I would suggest you get at least an antenna in your attic if you can't get it on the outside. I don't recommend rabbit ears to ANYONE.

foxeng, thanks for your reply. Guess I'll pick up 50 ft of RG6 on the way home tomorrow so I can take the Terk up into the attic and see what happens. However, I am curious why our reception of the Fox 8 signal (both analog & digital) is so much worse than 45/48. According to TVFool, they are 41.3 miles from us at 178 degrees(magnetic), while you are 44.9 miles away at 180 degrees. Does a few miles make that much difference, or is it where your transmitter is placed, or what? (Sorry for the dumb question, but I've been trying(forced) to learn more about antennas & OTA reception than I ever wanted to.)

Our tower is 1250 ft tall. 45/48/20/2's towers are 2000 ft. That also makes a difference at the fringe.

Well, that explains it. Is anything going to change when you switch to digital 8 that would improve the signal? Since 8 will be the only station broadcasting digital on VHF (after June 12) would you recommend a antenna that will pick up both UHF & VHF, or 2 separate antennas with a A-B switch?
Thanks for your input. (Don't suppose your bosses would consider raising your transmitter a few hundred feet - I have a feeling you're going to be losing some viewers out here in the sticks.)

Well, that explains it. Is anything going to change when you switch to digital 8 that would improve the signal? Since 8 will be the only station broadcasting digital on VHF (after June 12) would you recommend a antenna that will pick up both UHF & VHF, or 2 separate antennas with a A-B switch?

We will be using the same antenna on digital 8 that we use on analog 8 now. A single VHF/UHF antenna is easier to install. I personally run a separate VHF/UHF antenna, put I am gluten for punishment! :D

Well, that explains it. Is anything going to change when you switch to digital 8 that would improve the signal? Since 8 will be the only station broadcasting digital on VHF (after June 12) would you recommend a antenna that will pick up both UHF & VHF, or 2 separate antennas with a A-B switch?
Thanks for your input. (Don't suppose your bosses would consider raising your transmitter a few hundred feet - I have a feeling you're going to be losing some viewers out here in the sticks.)

In addition to what FoxEng said, online retailers like Solid Signal offer combination VHF/UHF antennas where the VHF portion is designed for hi-band VHF, which is channels 7-13. The upside is that most of these antennas are much smaller than the VHF/UHF antennas most people have had for 20-30 years.

Yeah antennas.

Been using a highly directional DB-8 ? UHF unit for years. Works great. Installed in my attic. When I got geeky and was really bored, with the old D* 10-250 and the rotor, I could pull in lots of out of market stations. My location puts me in about the highest elevation in Forsyth County.

Had an old huge VHF/UHF/ FM monster, 120" ? sitting up in the attic. Hooked it up for FM.

Glad I kept it around with WGHP going back to VHF. I assume the UHF stand alone won't work for VHF 8.

Now how best to combine and split the signal paths?

Granted, none of this is really needed since D* provides the Nets, but as a purist I like OTA. Not sure with MPEG4 there is much difference, did see a difference with MPEG2.

Fun dealing with old tech., aiming antennas, dialing in down force and the anti-skate parameter along with overhang, changing tube bias, etc.,etc.

NTSC needs a decent burial. Served us well for decades.

Rabbit ears in NYC worked well when I was very young.

Move upstate as a teen, now 50 miles from the transmission towers, add multipath problems. The PQ would not allow one to know if it was Jim Kirk, Spock or Bones on the tube.

The farmer down the road, up upon a high hill, had an antenna attached to his highest silo. He also had a daughter. PQ from his 25" RCA Color TV was amazing.

Fun evening circa 1968. Farmer listened and had a CATV system up and running shortly. Had to advise him that twin lead 300 OHM cable was not going to cut it.

The farmer's daughter, well I was only 15 at the time :)

Joe

This cracked me up. Thought I would share!

DTV Transition - eh, maybe not
KARE: Man Shoots TV Over Converter Confusion
Missouri man angered about losing cable and being unable to get new converter box to work
By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable, 2/19/2009 2:00:00 PM MT

Filed at 9:53 a.m. EST on Feb. 20, 2009

OK, so the DTV transition hasn't been perfect.

While the early analog-cutoff of 421 TV stations on Feb. 17 has gone relative smoothly according to most reports, that was not the case of at least one Missouri man, according to KARE-TV Minneapolis-ST. Paul.

The station reports that a 70-year-old Joplin man was arrested and charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm after shooting his TV set. Responding to a report of shots being fired, the station reported, the police found the man angry that he had both lost his cable and had been unable to get his new DTV converter box to work.

According to the man's wife, he had been drinking.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174518-KARE_Man_Shoots_TV_Over_Converter_Confusion.php

Yeah antennas.

Been using a highly directional DB-8 ? UHF unit for years. Works great. Installed in my attic. When I got geeky and was really bored, with the old D* 10-250 and the rotor, I could pull in lots of out of market stations. My location puts me in about the highest elevation in Forsyth County.

Had an old huge VHF/UHF/ FM monster, 120" ? sitting up in the attic. Hooked it up for FM.

Glad I kept it around with WGHP going back to VHF. I assume the UHF stand alone won't work for VHF 8.

Now how best to combine and split the signal paths?



Some of those antennas that look like the DB-8 (a panel or panels with "bow tie" design) claim to also work for hi-band VHF. Don't know if you've tried it, but see what kind of picture you get NOW with the DB8 when trying to pull in analog channel 8. If you get a pretty good picture now, then it should work for WGHP when they migrate back to ch 8 digital after June 12.

Some of those antennas that look like the DB-8 (a panel or panels with "bow tie" design) claim to also work for hi-band VHF. Don't know if you've tried it, but see what kind of picture you get NOW with the DB8 when trying to pull in analog channel 8. If you get a pretty good picture now, then it should work for WGHP when they migrate back to ch 8 digital after June 12.

Good point. I've just too lazy to drag an analog TV down into the HT.

With a Channel Master 4228 8 bow tie (purchased in (2002) mounted at the transmitter I can see WDBJ channel 7 Roanoke. Not good mind you, but I can see it enough to tell what it is. I can also see WTVD channel 11 Durham, pretty good on it as well and that is with no pre-amp sitting underneath a 300kw channel 8 and a 1 million watt channel 35.

YMMV.

Primetime ON Demand now available. It's not HD but is kinda cool.

UNC??? WHAAAAAAA?????

I've been seeing these incomprehensible messages on UNC HD the past few days. Something about how they're changing from UNC HD To HD UNC or some other confusing trick. I can't image that UNC would, you know, try to bamboozle us, or engage in doubletalk or something. Or put a spin on some sleazy adjustment to their TV offerings.

But what is this about helping us all out by providing ED now...??? I'm really puzzled. Maybe they can explain (in actual plain English) what changes they're foisting on us (I mean offering for our benefit). I'm not a stupid person, but I have no idea what their little message means. Can it be translated into English? Are they (no! impossible!) trying to play some kind of game with us? Some sort of academic/bureaucratic multi-speak?

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about?

Well, I checked and my attic mounted unit is a DB-8 purchased from solid signal. A four panel design with the bow-ties. A Channel Master rotor is part of the setup along with a circa 1992 Rat Shack pre-amp.

Hooked up an analog TV and WGHP 8 comes in well. Guess I'm set.

What surprised me was how good the PQ was from WFMY CH. 2. Was also able to pull in WBTV and WSOC from Charlotte.

Tuned to WXLV 45 and watched the DTV transition program they are running.

For the truly challenged out there, good luck to them.

What a mess the whole thing has become.

One question occurred while watching the WXLV tutorial. Is the FCC mandating that all stations run a similar program from now until June 12 ?

Forcing all that have made the switch to allocate the revenue to keep an analog signal up ?

We are in a new age now, all normal thinking seems to be suspended.

Joe

Well, I checked and my attic mounted unit is a DB-8 purchased from solid signal. A four panel design with the bow-ties. A Channel Master rotor is part of the setup along with a circa 1992 Rat Shack pre-amp.

Hooked up an analog TV and WGHP 8 comes in well. Guess I'm set.

What surprised me was how good the PQ was from WFMY CH. 2. Was also able to pull in WBTV and WSOC from Charlotte.

Tuned to WXLV 45 and watched the DTV transition program they are running.

For the truly challenged out there, good luck to them.

What a mess the whole thing has become.

One question occurred while watching the WXLV tutorial. Is the FCC mandating that all stations run a similar program from now until June 12 ?

Forcing all that have made the switch to allocate the revenue to keep an analog signal up ?

We are in a new age now, all normal thinking seems to be suspended.

Joe


When you referenced pulling in WFMY, along with WBTV and WSOC from Charlotte did you mean their analog or digital signals?

Also, the DTV transition program you are seeing on WXLV may just be temporary -- running it 30 days or maybe even less. If they are required to run until June, they might as well just run regular programming. Logically, though, I think it will be gone soon and analog 45 will be history.

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about?

I have no idea what they're talking about either. It's a totally mystifying message displayed periodically on UNC-HD channel 501 (Greensboro Time-Warner).

Hope someone can translate it for me. :confused:

When you referenced pulling in WFMY, along with WBTV and WSOC from Charlotte did you mean their analog or digital signals?

Also, the DTV transition program you are seeing on WXLV may just be temporary -- running it 30 days or maybe even less. If they are required to run until June, they might as well just run regular programming. Logically, though, I think it will be gone soon and analog 45 will be history.

Analog TV as in NTSC (never twice same color). :)

My point of surprise is that a highly directional UHF antenna was able to capture low band VHF, channel 2, WFMY so well. A test that had never been presented before.

Hope you're correct concerning the length of time stations that have switched have to keep paying to keep their analog transmitters up.

Duke Energy makes enough.

Joe

I can't find it in the FCC on line database, but I had heard that WXLV and WMYV would night light for 15 days and then turn off the analog transmitters. No one will night light till June 12th, that defeats the purpose of terminating early. I know the FCC wants stations that went on Feb 17th to night light up to 60 days, but I don't know of a single station doing that. Some stations only night lighted several hours and then terminated analog transmissions.

I can't find it in the FCC on line database, but I had heard that WXLV and WMYV would night light for 15 days and then turn off the analog transmitters. No one will night light till June 12th, that defeats the purpose of terminating early. I know the FCC wants stations that went on Feb 17th to night light up to 60 days, but I don't know of a single station doing that. Some stations only night lighted several hours and then terminated analog transmissions.

I know of a few stations doing it. It's happening in markets where all the network stations went. Up here in Charlottesville, WVIR will be nightlighting for two months.

- Trip

Hey foxeng,

I was playing around with that new signal mapping program on the FCC site, and it shows all these green dots for your station, WXII and WFMY that appear to be first time households in receiving these signals? It doesn't make sense to me. Really it doesn't seem like there should be much if any difference except around the fringe. Also they have WXII as the broadest signal covering the entire DMA, while the others miss it to the west.

Here's the map of WGHP that I'm referring to with all the green dots. Does this indicate a perfect signal maybe instead of a slightly snowy one?

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/images/callsigns/WGHP.gif

Forcing all that have made the switch to allocate the revenue to keep an analog signal up ?

We are in a new age now, all normal thinking seems to be suspended.

Joe[/QUOTE]

I second that opinion, 9,000 earmarks later !!

Hey foxeng,

I was playing around with that new signal mapping program on the FCC site, and it shows all these green dots for your station, WXII and WFMY that appear to be first time households in receiving these signals? It doesn't make sense to me. Really it doesn't seem like there should be much if any difference except around the fringe. Also they have WXII as the broadest signal covering the entire DMA, while the others miss it to the west.

Here's the map of WGHP that I'm referring to with all the green dots. Does this indicate a perfect signal maybe instead of a slightly snowy one?

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/images/callsigns/WGHP.gif

Theoretically that is possible. Those dots represent first adjacent interference that will no longer be there. Look where the green dots are. WSOC 9, Charlotte, WDBJ 7, Roanoke and WITN 7. And where are most of the green dots?

I second that opinion, 9,000 earmarks later !!

You guys wouldn't by chance be running a Harris NetVx encoding system?

Theoretically that is possible. Those dots represent first adjacent interference that will no longer be there. Look where the green dots are. WSOC 9, Charlotte, WDBJ 7, Roanoke and WITN 7. And where are most of the green dots?

Yep. Should have thought of that. :) Most everything I have looked at shows better results. It almost seemed too good to be true I guess. Thanks.

Interesting that I can get the four main Charlotte Stations in HD/Digital form Lewisville area. Just have a CM single bay pointed south. Must just have the right location.

You guys wouldn't by chance be running a Harris NetVx encoding system?


Everything here in the digital realm is Tandberg equipment. I don't think there is a piece of Harris Equipment in our entire system. We do use Leitch Nexio 3000 on air servers, but they were bought before Harris took them over. Our groups founder had real big heartburn with Harris over something that happened many years ago. He would not buy anything from them at all.

Everything here in the digital realm is Tandberg equipment. I don't think there is a piece of Harris Equipment in our entire system. We do use Leitch Nexio 3000 on air servers, but they were bought before Harris took them over. Our groups founder had real big heartburn with Harris over something that happened many years ago. He would not buy anything from them at all.

Our new owners LOVE Harris and as a back up encoder, we got a NetVx. Our main encoder is a Harmonic MV-400, which I LOVE! I must say, I am not impressed with the NetVx nor Harris' support for it. A rehashed Flexicoder that is UNBELIEVABLY difficult to set up because it has WAY TOO MANY ways to configure it. Anyway, it is doubling up and dropping packets like crazy on PID 1FFB and thought you might have an idea what I needed to turn it off in the stupid thing to get it to stop doing that. Thanks.

I saw this in another thread and thought I would share this. Joe will appreciate this. The rest, this is a ham radio guy who built his own ATSC amateur radio TV station. While EXTREMELY rudimentary, it is pretty much what I deal with. It gives you an idea of what we have to deal with on a mostly daily basis and why sometimes things go hay wire for no apparent reason.

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ky-tUrveI

I saw this in another thread and thought I would share this. Joe will appreciate this. The rest, this is a ham radio guy who built his own ATSC amateur radio TV station. While EXTREMELY rudimentary, it is pretty much what I deal with. It gives you an idea of what we have to deal with on a mostly daily basis and why sometimes things go hay wire for no apparent reason.

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ky-tUrveI

Cool... Can't wait till ATSC/QAM modulators are as common as the "Channel 3/4" video modulators in consumer electronics are today. Probably will never happen, but it would make easy to add the front-door camera to the HDTV channel line-up.

Joe L.

UNC??? WHAAAAAAA?????

I've been seeing these incomprehensible messages on UNC HD the past few days. Something about how they're changing from UNC HD To HD UNC or some other confusing trick. I can't image that UNC would, you know, try to bamboozle us, or engage in doubletalk or something. Or put a spin on some sleazy adjustment to their TV offerings.

But what is this about helping us all out by providing ED now...??? I'm really puzzled. Maybe they can explain (in actual plain English) what changes they're foisting on us (I mean offering for our benefit). I'm not a stupid person, but I have no idea what their little message means. Can it be translated into English? Are they (no! impossible!) trying to play some kind of game with us? Some sort of academic/bureaucratic multi-speak?

Don't know what the plan is exactly for Greensboro but I got an email from TWC about it. This is what it said:

On March 1, UNC digital programming on Time Warner Cable will undergo some changes. The UNC HD channel will transition to exactly the same HD programming as is carried over the air. Some popular programming that had been carried on the UNC HD channel will be moving to UNC Educational channel. The primary SD feed of UNC and other UNC channels will not be affected by this change.
200 UNC SD (unchanged)
201 UNC HD (becomes the same as the off air signal)
202 UNC KIDS (unchanged)
203 UNC ED (receives some programming previously on UNC HD)
204 UNC NC (unchanged)

Our new owners LOVE Harris and as a back up encoder, we got a NetVx. Our main encoder is a Harmonic MV-400, which I LOVE! I must say, I am not impressed with the NetVx nor Harris' support for it. A rehashed Flexicoder that is UNBELIEVABLY difficult to set up because it has WAY TOO MANY ways to configure it. Anyway, it is doubling up and dropping packets like crazy on PID 1FFB and thought you might have an idea what I needed to turn it off in the stupid thing to get it to stop doing that. Thanks.

Sorry, I have been at one of our transmitter sites all this week. Tower climbers have ben working on our lighting system, and I had to hang around and operate the lighting controller for them ( Boring). I do have a NAB reference book on PSIP, I will look at the PID and see exactly what it does. The book my give some hints on what function it performs, and why it may be problematic.

Do any of you know what WFMY is planning in regards to March Madness coverage. I am new to the area but I know that WRAL in Raleigh broadcasts all first and second round basketball games OTA on different digital sub-stations with multiple games on at the same time. Does WFMY normally do this and if not, are they planning to this year? Thanks a lot.

Do any of you know what WFMY is planning in regards to March Madness coverage. I am new to the area but I know that WRAL in Raleigh broadcasts all first and second round basketball games OTA on different digital sub-stations with multiple games on at the same time. Does WFMY normally do this and if not, are they planning to this year? Thanks a lot.

WFMY does it to some degree. They add 2 extra sub channels so we get a maximum of 3 games at once instead of 4. However, it really ruins the picture on the HD channel.

Do any of you know what WFMY is planning in regards to March Madness coverage. I am new to the area but I know that WRAL in Raleigh broadcasts all first and second round basketball games OTA on different digital sub-stations with multiple games on at the same time. Does WFMY normally do this and if not, are they planning to this year? Thanks a lot.

WRAL did NOT do that last year - they did 1 HD game and 1 SD game.

Let me rephrase that - I KNOW they didn't on OTA - I don't subscribe to Time Warner so I don't know about that.

WRAL did NOT do that last year - they did 1 HD game and 1 SD game.

Let me rephrase that - I KNOW they didn't on OTA - I don't subscribe to Time Warner so I don't know about that.


Every game was carried on TWC in HD through WRAL but as you said they did not do that OTA.

Sorry, I have been at one of our transmitter sites all this week. Tower climbers have ben working on our lighting system, and I had to hang around and operate the lighting controller for them ( Boring). I do have a NAB reference book on PSIP, I will look at the PID and see exactly what it does. The book my give some hints on what function it performs, and why it may be problematic.

Hello, Don't you just love PSIP? Pid 1FFb is actually expressed as 0x1FFB,and is defined as "ATSC PSIP SI base_pid. It carries ATSC PSIP tables that include system time table, master guide table, the terrestrial and cable virtual channel tables and the rating region tables.

There may be some values set up on one of the tables or fields that is invalid, so it gets dropped as it may not be assigned to any relevant function, so the data is dropped or ignored. Do you see any signal problems related to this error?

, it is doubling up and dropping packets like crazy on PID 1FFB .

That is the TVCT pid.. check settings in encoder for repetition rate on it, MGT, and RRT.

Alan Schmuck and or Mark Schlinkman @ Harris are super on encoders.

Get TSReader Pro with an OTA tuner and an ASI input adapter and your life will be much easier.
That Pixelmetrix is way too much for general looking.. just like my Rhode DVM400..

Last year CBS put some restructions on what their stations could do with the different feeds.

That is the TVCT pid.. check settings in encoder for repetition rate on it, MGT, and RRT.

Alan Schmuck and or Mark Schlinkman @ Harris are super on encoders.

Get TSReader Pro with an OTA tuner and an ASI input adapter and your life will be much easier.
That Pixelmetrix is way too much for general looking.. just like my Rhode DVM400..

I was actually using a DiviCatch that we have as a demo unit. The Pixelmetrix didn't catch it. I finally got someone at Harris who knew what was going on to help. It seems the first tech I was talking to had the PSIP parm set to ATSC instead of MPEG2 since we use the DTVInnovations PSIP Generator that uses MPEG2 to feed the mux instead of IP and the NetVx was adding it's own PSIP with no tables along with the DTV Innovations PSIP. The splicer buffered that and it didn't make it to air. When I put the splicer in bypass to replace it, the buffer was gone and TV's went crazy. Guess that stupid splicer fan going bad was a blessing in disguise.

The Pixelmetrix didn't catch it. . Guess that stupid splicer fan going bad was a blessing in disguise.

The Splicer upsets the Rhode big time..call me next week and I can let you know what I have found.

Hey guys, is there something up with digital 26 WUNL? I haven't been getting it and just thought I needed to adjust my antenna. I changed my STB to an old Samsung SIR-TS160 (no DirecTV, just using it for OTA). I'm getting digital 12 and 61 just fine. I'm getting analog 26 But I cannot get the 3 digital 26's to save me.
Is it them or me? :(

They must be doing something. Here in north Greensboro, on a Samsung DTB-H260F I have only 26-1 and 26-2. 26-3 doesn't seem to be up.

Did everyone make it through the snow? I had a couple of power flickers at home but never lost power. We didn't loose power at the studio but had some flickers at the transmitter and went on generator for the morning news as a precaution. The rest of the day was quiet, the way I like it!

Late Sunday evening I did have something strange occur.

A couple of flickers, seemed to be Voltage sags. All the equipment in the rack hooked up to a surge protector / line conditioner: no hiccup.

My D* HD DVR and front pj are connected to a UPS. The UPS did not like the line variation at all. Just did an automatic, immediate, shut down. After that the UPS was outputting a high pitched whine.

After resetting the UPS, whine gone, the D* box rebooted normally. Turn on the pj and after negotiating the HDCP handshake a green screen is all that will display with all source devices, yikes.

Thought due to the improper shut down the color wheel was affected. Turned everything off and went to bed.

Next evening all is well.

Don't you hate it when a glitch happens and there is no explanation?

At least it wasn't a blue screen. :)

Joe

Did everyone make it through the snow? I had a couple of power flickers at home but never lost power. We didn't loose power at the studio but had some flickers at the transmitter and went on generator for the morning news as a precaution. The rest of the day was quiet, the way I like it!


I stay off of Randleman Rd near the future 840 loop. Cable/internet was out from like 6:30am to 10am. aside from that I was pretty much alright techwise

I see WXLV and WMYV have shutdown the analog transmitters. It appears many of the Sinclair's did last night at midnight including WLFL and WRDC in Raleigh. I am seeing nothing but snow this morning on 45, 48, and 22. My rotor is frozen so I can't turn it towards Raleigh to check to see if WLFL and WRDC have changed channels. I assume they have. WLFL moving to 27 and using WRDC's 27-D transmitter and antenna and WRDC moving back to 28 from 27 using their old analog transmitter and antenna system.

I see WXLV and WMYV have shutdown the analog transmitters. It appears many of the Sinclair's did last night at midnight including WLFL and WRDC in Raleigh. I am seeing nothing but snow this morning on 45, 48, and 22. My rotor is frozen so I can't turn it towards Raleigh to check to see if WLFL and WRDC have changed channels. I assume they have. WLFL moving to 27 and using WRDC's 27-D transmitter and antenna and WRDC moving back to 28 from 27 using their old analog transmitter and antenna system.

WLFL and WRDC appear to still be on their pretransition channel assignment, although they have ceased analog nightlight operations.

Foxeng,

WUNJ's PBS - the last Wilmington analog signal went to snow Monday.

http://www.wspa.com

TV broadcast towers call it quits. Could the digital transition be responsible for this mishap? With 14,000 extra pounds strapped to it's side when it was not designed for that extra weight was most likely the cause of this accident.

Towers are actually designed for extra ice loading, but the addition of 14,000 extra pounds of weight actually takes away any additional extra strength that was originally built into the tower for ice loading. Think about the fact that water weighs almost 8 lbs per gallon, and it does not take long for the weight to exceed the designed structural limits with 14,000 extra pounds strapped to the side at its weakest point.

I feel sorry for those engineers, and the station as a whole with the transition stuff going on and prices for towers and antennas being almost double what they were 2 years ago, it will be very costly to replace all of this equipment. Good luck guys.

http://www.wspa.com

Actually the tower was less than 10 years old and was installed because of digital television. I suspect there was either a defect in material or workmanship. They said the tower has always swayed excessively since it was installed.

Personally I would have never accepted it if was indeed doing all that.

Actually the tower was less than 10 years old and was installed because of digital television. I suspect there was either a defect in material or workmanship. They said the tower has always swayed excessively since it was installed.

That is a shame, but I am a little leary of unguyed towers for several reasons. First, in a collapse like that one, its fall area potential is much greater than for a guyed tower. Guyed towers normally don't have a big issue with sway caused by wind or wind generated harmonics. Our Poor Mountain site has one of these unguyed towers (PBS WBRA) about 500 feet or less from ours (See Picture)

I really do not understand why our local PBS station needs a 500 foot tower on a 4000 foot mountain. That mountain normally has several ice storms each year. Our tower on that same mountain is less than 200 feet total, and it does not even require obstruction lighting.

Nice snow pictures! Maybe it has something to do with how much land they had to play with and a self supporter is all they could get? The new UNC tower on Sauratown Mt is a self supporter that replaced a guyed. That was a land issue there.

The WSPA was a Stainless Tower. I know when we were looking at towers in 2004, Stainless had just dropped a 2000 footer in GA the day before the sale guy came to visit. Now THAT guy knew he lost a sale before he ever stepped foot in the place! :D

FYI for everyone. Nielsen came out today with their latest numbers of homes not DTV Ready. In our market, the number is 2.3% not ready. Nationally the number is 3.9%.

Nice snow pictures! Maybe it has something to do with how much land they had to play with and a self supporter is all they could get? The new UNC tower on Sauratown Mt is a self supporter that replaced a guyed. That was a land issue there.

The WSPA was a Stainless Tower. I know when we were looking at towers in 2004, Stainless had just dropped a 2000 footer in GA the day before the sale guy came to visit. Now THAT guy knew he lost a sale before he ever stepped foot in the place! :D

The WFXR tower is a stainless tower also, but the tower itself is under 150 feet, with antenna and all its around 195 feet. Our other 1000 footer is an allied tower, and it has been up since 1985. In 2002, it saw a 100 mph tornado pass within 1/2 mile of it with no damage, and it is located on a 1800 foot mountain.

All I can say is I hope they have enough insurance to pay for it all. With the price of antennas and towers at an all time high due to the digital transition, I hope that the bean counters had enough foresight to up the coverage on all of that expensive equipment while they still had a chance. All of our major broadcast equipment was reviewed for coverage limits about 8 months ago, and I assume that was because of the projected increase of broadcast equipment such as antennas and towers in a sellers market.

Our new ERI antenna (which is in storage now because of OBAMA) for the 1000 footer cost more than twice what the WFXR side mounted andrew antenna cost only 3 years ago. It looks a lot like the side mounted antenna of WSPA. I wonder if we could get a few radome cover replacement panels from them? I actually saw a few of them that looked usable in the photos.

I do actually know where there is an old channel 7 batwing antenna that may be available for fire sale prices, or possibly on a donation basis.

All I can say is I hope they have enough insurance to pay for it all.

I believe WSPA is owned by Raycomm.

I saw on their webpage they will be back up on 7 by the start of next week and their DTV channel of 53 shortly after on another tower on the mountain. Their post transition channel is 7.

I believe WSPA is owned by Raycomm.



Nope. It's MG. And we know they are hurting...

Is there a site on the percentages found not ready by Nielsen? I was curious what the east is looking like.

Wow. I grew up down the road from WSPA in Greenville. Jane Robelot spent part of her career there before going to CBS' morning show. One guy got fired at WSPA for a really bad remark he made to her (about her) on the air.

Sounds like FOX TV may be a lively, new and welcomed poster.

Mods seem to not hang out around here. We are all relaxed, so feel free.

Joe

Nope. It's MG. And we know they are hurting...

Yes, you are right. Raycomm didn't seem right when I wrote it, but Media General never even popped in my mind either. Old age I guess.

Is there a site on the percentages found not ready by Nielsen? I was curious what the east is looking like.

No. Nielsen only has market percentages in the 56 metered markets which the Triad is one. Eastern NC isn't one of them. Neither is Wilmington, but the Triangle, Charlotte and Asheville/Greenville/Spartanburg are.