I don't know how many of you have heard, but channel 2 is letting Kent Bates and Greg Kerr go at the end of the month. I don't know Kerr, but I know Kent from when he worked here about 12 years ago. It is really getting tough in the TV biz these days.

Whoa, that's unexpected. I wonder who will replace them?

Off topic, for those of you American Idol fans, our school's Fine Arts department won the Harris Teeter Jingle contest and it will air next Wednesday during the finals - I'm proud of our kids!:D

I don't know how many of you have heard, but channel 2 is letting Kent Bates and Greg Kerr go at the end of the month. I don't know Kerr, but I know Kent from when he worked here about 12 years ago. It is really getting tough in the TV biz these days.

Even though there has been no official reasons given, I'd imagine that it's due to costs. Bates contract wasn't being renewed. With Kerr going, they have nobody in the sports department although I'd imagine that he will be replaced with a much cheaper person. For Bates I guess that somebody already on air would get his job, but at a price lower price than what Bates was making. Then the spot left by the person being promoted won't get filled.

It is sad for these guys. Both were good at their jobs. :(

For those with OTA's, WGSR-LD Reidsville made a test transmission today. I am not sure how long it is to last, I am seeing carrier at times and no video but I did catch the following screencap between 1:00 and 2:45 on RF 47. Not sure what they are using for an encoder, but this was 480i and looks pretty blurry. I am seeing about 90% scale on my Fusion 5HDTV card in my desktop here in Greensboro off Battleground. I haven't looked on my STB yet. Appears to not have any PSIP yet.

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/WGSR-LD-test.jpg

WGSR has PSIP now but no video. In looking at TSReader, they have some stream errors and it is trying to decode a picture but it is just a big mess at this point. The Fusion is saying 1080i now. If they don't have an upconverter, the picture won't decode. I justed checked my Samsung STB and it is showing 480i but the picture is a huge mess of pixels. The Fusion still isn't decoding. I don't know what they have changed from earlier, but something has changed.

With the signal holding as strong as it is and the stream data coming and going like it is with the errors I am seeing, I am wondering if they have a microwave problem or a stream problem. I have a better than 90% signal strength and a S/N that is where it needs to be to decode, so that tells me the RF is working, but either the encoder/mux combo has an issue or the microwave has an issue. As I understand it, they are using a license free 5.6 GHz spread spectrum microwave system. If there are other uses around the transmitter site, it could cause issues, but I am only guessing here now on the cause. Time will tell.

Got up this morning and WGSR-LD was back up testing. Their PSIP stream looked much better and they had video but no audio. The RF signal has been up and down quite a bit and is down as I write this but could be back up at any time.

Based on who is part of WGSR, I would bet that they are using worn out second hand equipment.

Not much used digital equipment is available yet. It looks like a configuration issue. I am surprised that they even have dynamic PSIP. I had figure they would have gone with the MUCH cheaper static PSIP. I know LP stations use a slightly different set of rules than full power, and I am not sure if they are required to use dynamic PSIP as the full power stations. I also don't know if they are required to remap as well. They appeared to NOT be remapping to channel 39 when I saw them yesterday. They haven't been up long enough at a time for me to check if they are remapping today or not. My guess is they won't.

Actually, if I'm recalling correctly, LP stations aren't even required to HAVE PSIP. I think that LP stations are smart enough to know, though, that there are receivers out there that will not decode stations that do not have PSIP and thus most or all will have it anyway.

- Trip

I think LP's do have to have some form of PSIP. just not use how much. A translator has to have its own PSIP stream for remapping, even though it can use the stations EPG on the pass through. The only time a translator doesn't need to have its own PSIP is a DTS and it just passes the originating stations PSIP as its own through since it is on the same channel and uses the same call sign -1, -2, etc.

Not much used digital equipment is available yet. It looks like a configuration issue. I am surprised that they even have dynamic PSIP. I had figure they would have gone with the MUCH cheaper static PSIP. I know LP stations use a slightly different set of rules than full power, and I am not sure if they are required to use dynamic PSIP as the full power stations. I also don't know if they are required to remap as well. They appeared to NOT be remapping to channel 39 when I saw them yesterday. They haven't been up long enough at a time for me to check if they are remapping today or not. My guess is they won't.I was referring to the analog equipment that feed the new digital equipment. WGSR is allied with or owned by Martinsville's RoarkMedia (who own cable channel 18 here), whose principle was, ahem. alledgely caught with equipment missing from an Ashville PBS station in his car 15 or 20 yeras ago. Channel 18 (formerly Cable 6) were famous for low quality programming and low journalistic standards.

Time Warner dropping HD Net and HD Net Movies

http://www.multichannel.com/article/232772-Updated_Time_Warner_Cable_Dropping_HDNet_Channels_Nationwide _May_31.php

Time Warner Cable confirmed Monday it will stop offering HDNet and HDNet Movies across all of its systems effective May 31.

The move by Time Warner Cable, which has 8.7 million digital cable subscribers, is a blow to the Mark Cuban-backed HDNet, which was among the first HD services available to cable and satellite operators.

Asked why the company was dropping HDNet's services, Time Warner Cable director of corporate public relations Robyn Watson said, "There's a limited appeal for the programming. In a world with more than 100 HD channels, being in HD is not enough. We are adding other channels in HD to give our customers more choice."

HDNet and HDNet Movies has been available to Time Warner Cable customers in the HD Xtra premium-priced tier, which depending on market costs up to $8.95 extra per month.

Cuban, in an e-mail to Multichannel News, said he would not comment "on ongoing negotiations." However, he took issue with Time Warner Cable's characterization of HDNet's programming as lacking appeal.

"[T]here are millions of viewers who enjoy our unique and exclusive programming," Cuban wrote, adding that "we are not a cookie-cutter network like those from the big media conglomerates" and claiming that HDNet's viewers "do business with providers specifically to get our progamming."

HDNet's flagship channel, launched in 2001, features up to 20 hours per week of original features, including a newsmagazine hosted by former CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Time Warner Cable disclosed the plans to drop the two HDNet services on its Web site May 15. The company also said on or about June 1 it will launch MAV TV HD, as part of the HD Xtra tier.

In New York City, at least, TWC this month added Smithsonian HD in the HD Xtra tier. In earlier Web site statements about the two HDNet channels, TWC had said it intended to drop them and add Smithsonian HD and MavTV.

I see that WGSR-LD has finally got their PSIP issue fixed, but they only have audio on the right channel and they must be having STL microwave problems because the video is freezing as if the microwave is loosing lock. The picture is also pretty blurry, even for 480i. They say they are going to run it test mode until about 10pm tonight. It is almost full scale here in north Greensboro.

I see that WGSR-LD has finally got their PSIP issue fixed, but they only have audio on the right channel and they must be having STL microwave problems because the video is freezing as if the microwave is loosing lock. The picture is also pretty blurry, even for 480i. They say they are going to run it test mode until about 10pm tonight. It is almost full scale here in north Greensboro.

Did you catch me any TSReader now that it's finally correct or close to correct?

And the blurry picture thing is no surprise. If the studio gear isn't all that great, you can't really expect much just by going digital. I learned the same lesson care of WDRL-DT, which has the softest digital picture I've ever seen.

- Trip

Did you catch me any TSReader now that it's finally correct or close to correct?

And the blurry picture thing is no surprise. If the studio gear isn't all that great, you can't really expect much just by going digital. I learned the same lesson care of WDRL-DT, which has the softest digital picture I've ever seen.

- Trip

It's the old GIGO law - Garbage In , Garbage Out...

Time Warner dropping HD Net and HD Net Movies

http://www.multichannel.com/article/232772-Updated_Time_Warner_Cable_Dropping_HDNet_Channels_Nationwide _May_31.php

Here is the info from TWC-Greensboro's web site:

May 31, 2009: HD Net (Channel 562) and HD Net Movies (Channel 563) will no longer be available on the Digital Cable HD Tier. The following channels will be added to the HD Tier:

Smithsonian Channel HD - Channel 562
MavTV - Channel 563
Hallmark Movie Channel HD - Channel 584

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

DTV NOTES
Stations Prepare For Soft Analog Shut-Off Test Thursday
Stations will simulate shut-off three times during the day
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/20/2009 9:22:15 AM MT

Related: The DTV Countdown: Complete Coverage of the DTV Transition (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/channel/DTV_Countdown.php)

The National Association of Broadcasters says stations are gearing up for tomorrow's soft analog shut-off test. All the networks and their owned stations are participating, as are stations in all but a handful of markets, according to the FCC's database, with the rest still "pending."

Most stations will simulate the analog shut-off--happening for real on June 12--three times during the day, airing either a text slate or a video explaining the transition. Generally the tests will come at 7:30 a.m., 12:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m., and will last from two to five minutes.

NAB says 400 stations have already conducted soft cut-off tests. According to Shermaze Ingram, NAB's senior director of media relations for the DTV transition, the tale of the DTV transition tape breaks down this way: 972 stations will transition on June 12, while 788 stations have already made the transition. Of those 788, 213 went before Feb. 17, the original analog cut-off date, 416 pulled the plug on Feb. 17, and 159 will have done so sometime between Feb. 17 and June 12.

The FCC said Tuesday that the test would be a "wake-up" call.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/233069-Stations_Prepare_For_Soft_Analog_Shut_Off_Test_Thursday.php

Here is the info from TWC-Greensboro's web site:

May 31, 2009: HD Net (Channel 562) and HD Net Movies (Channel 563) will no longer be available on the Digital Cable HD Tier. The following channels will be added to the HD Tier:

Smithsonian Channel HD - Channel 562
MavTV - Channel 563
Hallmark Movie Channel HD - Channel 584

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html


Wait a minute. Isn't The Hallmark Channel on the non digital/basic cable lineup?? Why is the HD version going in the HD Tier?? And why drop 2 of Cubans channels and say that they did so because simply being in HD wasn't enough and HDNet didn't have enough requested content then add MavTV which from the looks of the website looks like it wont have any better content. I mean at Least HDNet Movies showed a few good movies a week. Not To mention Smallville, Enterprise, Arrested Development and a few other worthwhile shows.

The Hallmark Channel isn't the same thing as the Hallmark Movie Channel. Kind of like Lifetime vs the Lifetime Movie Network. Smithsonian is a decent HD channel but it can be repetitive. Kind of like HD Net. But it isn't really an upgrade over HD Net. At best a parallel move but arguably a down grade.

Why did Fox 8 announce that Directv didn't have signal during the first 15 minutes of Idol. I watched Idol via D* instead of my OTA and I didn't have any problems. Maybe the problems was with just E*. Can any E* members here say what they saw.

No problems on TWC except during the Black Eyed Peas/Fergie performance - was that a bleep when they put up the Idol sign????

PS - they sped up our commercial - the girls sounded like chipmunks! Oh, well, they had to turn a 32 second commercial into 30 ; )

I read on the TWC Navigator site that Navigator might be launched to Sara ipg customers in NY June 1. Wonder what the Greensboro Triad time frame is? Has anyone heard anything?

The issue with D* and E* and American Idol was with the SD version of the signal, not the HD. The problem appeared to be with the SD downconvert feed from the receive site at WFMY. The HD feed wasn't affected. Since both D* and E* use this same feed, it affected both services.

And yes, the phones lit up when it happened. That is why we mentioned it on the news and our web site.

The issue with D* and E* and American Idol was with the SD version of the signal, not the HD. The problem appeared to be with the SD downconvert feed from the receive site at WFMY. The HD feed wasn't affected. Since both D* and E* use this same feed, it affected both services.

And yes, the phones lit up when it happened. That is why we mentioned it on the news and our web site.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe if Julie had mentioned that it only affected SD viewers. Anyway how does TWC get the SD feed of Fox 8? Obviously they do something different than what D* and E* do.

The Hallmark Channel isn't the same thing as the Hallmark Movie Channel. Kind of like Lifetime vs the Lifetime Movie Network. Smithsonian is a decent HD channel but it can be repetitive. Kind of like HD Net. But it isn't really an upgrade over HD Net. At best a parallel move but arguably a down grade.


Oh ok, I gotcha. I still Say HDNet Movies should have at least stayed. With us Getting MavTV I'm going to agree with you in saying downgrade as their program line-up just looks worse

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe if Julie had mentioned that it only affected SD viewers. Anyway how does TWC get the SD feed of Fox 8? Obviously they do something different than what D* and E* do.

TWC is the only one who gets it via fiber. D*, E* and the other cableco's pick our channel 35 signal off the air. To my knowledge, no cableco picks up our analog channel 8 anymore. Only the OTA folks who either aren't ready or who just love analog!

We are planning in the next few days to test our channel 8 digital transmitter on air sometime after midnight for an hour or so. I hope to have the date/time finalized sometime today. It could happen as soon as this weekend or middle next week. Those who have OTA and can stay up, we would appreciate any signal reports. This signal will emanate from our backup tower 600 ft from the main tower on our backup transmitter. We will use this system as we convert the main transmitter from analog to digital and hope to have it on air in digital by June 26, everything working out like it should. The coverage area on the backup should be very close to our main pattern on the main tower.

I will let you know more when I know. Thanks.

Well, I know I'd be DXing, but if you can do it this weekend, I can look for it. Once Monday rolls around, I'll be in Roanoke and won't be able to get much of anything.

- Trip

Before you power up that digital 8, hook an STB to the antenna and see if WOLO skips up there first! :)

Before you power up that digital 8, hook an STB to the antenna and see if WOLO skips up there first! :)

Better not see it up here. If so, you got a problem! :D

OK, the date and time is set for our testing of the channel 8 digital system. We will be testing from 2am to 4am on Sunday morning May 24. We will also have channel 35 on so be sure you know which channel you are watching since channel 8 will have the same programming as channel 35. When you do your rescan, after it clears channel 8, stop it from rescanning or if you can't, pull the antenna so it doesn't pick up 35 or pull your antenna, do a rescan with no antenna so it picks up nothing and then manually enter channel 8, if your receiver will allow it. If you have a D* or E* combo receiver, you will not be able to see channel 8 digital until D* and E* sends the new data at 9AM on June 12th so you folks will not be able to participate, unless you have a VERY OLD D* Samsung HD receiver or other vintage receiver or some other none D* or E* receiver like a converter box or STB. All of the newer ones that have the D* logo on it will not do a manual scan, this includes the H20, HR20, and the HR21 add on tuner. They get their info directly from D*.

Please post your signal reports here and I will pick them up after the test since I will not have Internet access at the old transmitter site.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I read on the TWC Navigator site that Navigator might be launched to Sara ipg customers in NY June 1. Wonder what the Greensboro Triad time frame is? Has anyone heard anything?

I don't remember if I mentioned this earlier. I was at the beach at the beginning of the month and they had Navigator running on a SA8300 HDDVR like we have in Greensboro. While it wasn't as painfully slow as it is on my in-laws' non-DVR HD cable box, it was still noticeably slower to switch channels than SARA is. Seriously, I would stop hoping for this change to happen soon. I am dreading it myself...

I looked for one as well a while back fora list for the TV in the bedroom that I refuse to get a box for but couldn't find one.

But you pretty much get all the Local Digital Stations on QAM. I can't remember the station numbers but you will find them if you just use auto search.

UNC-HD
UNC-Kids
UNC-Educational
UNC-NC
WGHPD
WFMYD
WFMY2
WXLVD
WMYVD
WCWGD
WXIID
WXII2
and for some reason News Channel 14 which is on the HD Tier

I REALLY wish they would at least give us a FEW of the "Free" HD channels via QAM but I'm sure that would eat up bandwidth as well as cut down on their profits from the monthly fee of the HD Box

I just got an HD Homerun tuner and I'm in the process of adding the QAM channels to my media center PC. Does anyone know the digital channel number for WXLV-DT? For example, WFMY-DT is 78.1.

Thx.

I just saw the analog co-channel interference go away in 8 and WRIC is in pretty well. I'm seeing flashes of the carrier of the digital signal and the analog 8 signal definitely looks like there's a digital interference, but that's about it. The atmosphere is not helping me tonight, and my lack of an upper-VHF antenna probably doesn't make matters better...

- Trip

I don't remember if I mentioned this earlier. I was at the beach at the beginning of the month and they had Navigator running on a SA8300 HDDVR like we have in Greensboro. While it wasn't as painfully slow as it is on my in-laws' non-DVR HD cable box, it was still noticeably slower to switch channels than SARA is. Seriously, I would stop hoping for this change to happen soon. I am dreading it myself...

I would be happy with SARA if they just gave us the new updates.Several new features have been added to SARA. It's been 3 years since we had a major feature update in Greensboro.

I just saw the analog co-channel interference go away in 8 and WRIC is in pretty well. I'm seeing flashes of the carrier of the digital signal and the analog 8 signal definitely looks like there's a digital interference, but that's about it. The atmosphere is not helping me tonight, and my lack of an upper-VHF antenna probably doesn't make matters better...

- Trip

We came up about 2:03 and stayed up until 3:58 with regular programming. I set up a converter box into a VCR here at the house since all my DVR's are keyed through channel 35 and recorded 2-4am and it was there. I saw the signal when it first came up and when it dropped at the end. It was solid through out.

Thanks for the report!

We came up about 2:03 and stayed up until 3:58 with regular programming. I set up a converter box into a VCR here at the house since all my DVR's are keyed through channel 35 and recorded 2-4am and it was there. I saw the signal when it first came up and when it dropped at the end. It was solid through out.

Thanks for the report!

Wow, that must have been a fun middle of the night job! Did you have to re-plumb the channel 8 antenna for the digital xmtr, or how did that work?

Wow, that must have been a fun middle of the night job! Did you have to re-plumb the channel 8 antenna for the digital xmtr, or how did that work?

In 2006, Fox built out a whole new tower and building for WGHP. Foxeng has converted the transmitter at the old building for digital operation, and it will serve as an auxiliary once the current 8 analog transmitter is converted a few weeks after the transition date.

- Trip

Wow, that must have been a fun middle of the night job! Did you have to re-plumb the channel 8 antenna for the digital xmtr, or how did that work?

We are lucky that when FOX owned us, they saw the benefit of having as many backups as possible. After 9/11 they wanted as many stations as possible that had the capability to have full transmitter site redundancy, to do so. That meant that if a station needed to build a new tower to handle digital, try to do it with with a second tower and building and transmitters; repurposing the original site and equipment as much as possible. We were able to do that with a whole new facility 600 feet away from the original tower and building and making the original tower a solid auxiliary tower site using the old tower, antenna and a new transmitter.

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/dtv_project/2006-04-03%20-%20Week%20Thirty-Nine/slides/p4070002.jpg
Original tower site (forground) now the auxiliary with the new main site (background)

After we put the new tower on line, we refurbed the old building and installed a new auxiliary transmitter there with the plan of when the transition happened since we would be staying on channel 8 for digital, we would convert the auxiliary site to digital first, go on the air with it since it covers the same coverage as the main site and then that would give us some breathing room so not to be rushed on getting the main channel 8 transmitter converted from analog to digital.

The catch was that the auxiliary antenna was installed in 1963 as the old main antenna and was not build to pass digital transmissions. So we didn't know if receivers would be able to decode the signal at a distance. That is what the test last night was for. To put a digital signal on that antenna and see who could see it before we needed it on June 12th. Of course we had to turn off the analog channel 8 that broadcasts from the main tower to see so we could only do it after midnight to keep interference down from other channel 8 analogs as well as ours who are still broadcasting.

I remember when WGHP came on the air in 63. Althought our next door neighbors could get Channel 13 from Lynchburg, we couldn't pick them up at all. WGHP was the first time we were able to see any ABC shows. We were immediately hooked on Combat! which I think came on at 8:30. In those days network TV started at 7:30.

We are lucky that when FOX owned us, they saw the benefit of having as many backups as possible. After 9/11 they wanted as many stations as possible that had the capability to have full transmitter site redundancy, to do so. That meant that if a station needed to build a new tower to handle digital, try to do it with with a second tower and building and transmitters; repurposing the original site and equipment as much as possible. We were able to do that with a whole new facility 600 feet away from the original tower and building and making the original tower a solid auxiliary tower site using the old tower, antenna and a new transmitter.

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/dtv_project/2006-04-03%20-%20Week%20Thirty-Nine/slides/p4070002.jpg
Original tower site (forground) now the auxiliary with the new main site (background)

After we put the new tower on line, we refurbed the old building and installed a new auxiliary transmitter there with the plan of when the transition happened since we would be staying on channel 8 for digital, we would convert the auxiliary site to digital first, go on the air with it since it covers the same coverage as the main site and then that would give us some breathing room so not to be rushed on getting the main channel 8 transmitter converted from analog to digital.

The catch was that the auxiliary antenna was installed in 1963 as the old main antenna and was not build to pass digital transmissions. So we didn't know if receivers would be able to decode the signal at a distance. That is what the test last night was for. To put a digital signal on that antenna and see who could see it before we needed it on June 12th. Of course we had to turn off the analog channel 8 that broadcasts from the main tower to see so we could only do it after midnight to keep interference down from other channel 8 analogs as well as ours who are still broadcasting.

I remembered reading your site on the new tower, but could not remember how you were going to transition. That is a very smooth deal for you. No sweating it with a backup (at least once you get a RF channel 8 backup ready)...
Did you just rely on reports from people in the field, or did you have your own team and yourself out making signal tests, and I suppose you got info from the local cableco headends as to what they were seeing....??

I remembered reading your site on the new tower, but could not remember how you were going to transition. That is a very smooth deal for you. No sweating it with a backup (at least once you get a RF channel 8 backup ready)...

The backup is ready. That is what we were testing. All we need to do on the main site is convert the analog transmitter to digital and we are ready to go.

Did you just rely on reports from people in the field, or did you have your own team and yourself out making signal tests, and I suppose you got info from the local cableco headends as to what they were seeing....??

Just reports from viewers.

Anybody else in the Triad using TWC with a TiVo S3 or TiVoHD and a tuning adapter? I'm getting a bunch of pixelation/freezing of the picture on my SDV channels, mostly BravoHD and sometimes History HD.

Anybody else in the Triad using TWC with a TiVo S3 or TiVoHD and a tuning adapter? I'm getting a bunch of pixelation/freezing of the picture on my SDV channels, mostly BravoHD and sometimes History HD.

Yes, I have been getting pixelation with my tuning adapter since day 1 that I have had it. The worst is Discovery HD. I get some pixelation on BravoHD, USAHD, HGTVHD, and Food Network HD. I am not sure if all of those channels are on the same frequency. I could check, but my wife is watching tv on the Tivo. :) I have done some things to improve my cable signal. On the tuning adapter screen, the tuner was as bad at -7. The pixelation was terrible. After making the changes, the tuner is now at +1, but I still get some occasional pixelation. I get no pixelation on non-SDV channels.

Yes, I have been getting pixelation with my tuning adapter since day 1 that I have had it. The worst is Discovery HD. I get some pixelation on BravoHD, USAHD, HGTVHD, and Food Network HD. I am not sure if all of those channels are on the same frequency. I could check, but my wife is watching tv on the Tivo. :) I have done some things to improve my cable signal. On the tuning adapter screen, the tuner was as bad at -7. The pixelation was terrible. After making the changes, the tuner is now at +1, but I still get some occasional pixelation. I get no pixelation on non-SDV channels.
Thanks for the confirmation. I'm going to see if I can get Charlie to work on it for me. He'll probably ask me if anyone else is having the same problem.

We are lucky that when FOX owned us, they saw the benefit of having as many backups as possible. After 9/11 they wanted as many stations as possible that had the capability to have full transmitter site redundancy, to do so. That meant that if a station needed to build a new tower to handle digital, try to do it with with a second tower and building and transmitters; repurposing the original site and equipment as much as possible. We were able to do that with a whole new facility 600 feet away from the original tower and building and making the original tower a solid auxiliary tower site using the old tower, antenna and a new transmitter.

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/dtv_project/2006-04-03%20-%20Week%20Thirty-Nine/slides/p4070002.jpg
Original tower site (forground) now the auxiliary with the new main site (background)

After we put the new tower on line, we refurbed the old building and installed a new auxiliary transmitter there with the plan of when the transition happened since we would be staying on channel 8 for digital, we would convert the auxiliary site to digital first, go on the air with it since it covers the same coverage as the main site and then that would give us some breathing room so not to be rushed on getting the main channel 8 transmitter converted from analog to digital.

The catch was that the auxiliary antenna was installed in 1963 as the old main antenna and was not build to pass digital transmissions. So we didn't know if receivers would be able to decode the signal at a distance. That is what the test last night was for. To put a digital signal on that antenna and see who could see it before we needed it on June 12th. Of course we had to turn off the analog channel 8 that broadcasts from the main tower to see so we could only do it after midnight to keep interference down from other channel 8 analogs as well as ours who are still broadcasting.

Well look at Mr. Lucky with two towers and two transmitters. We have two towers and two ( Actually 4) transmitters too. The only problem is that they are 50 miles apart. If he has a major problem, all he has to do is walk down to the next building and turn on the backup and he will be back on air in 15 to 20 minutes accounting for warm up time, and then come in to work the next day and troubleshoot the faulty transmitter while the backup is on air.

We have to stay until the problem is found or fixed, or parts are ordered, which ever comes first. You Lucky dog you!!!

Just kidding...What a nice setup that is..Do you have any connections at FOX? LOL

Well look at Mr. Lucky with two towers and two transmitters. We have two towers and two ( Actually 4) transmitters too. The only problem is that they are 50 miles apart. If he has a major problem, all he has to do is walk down to the next building and turn on the backup and he will be back on air in 15 to 20 minutes accounting for warm up time, and then come in to work the next day and troubleshoot the faulty transmitter while the backup is on air.

We have to stay until the problem is found or fixed, or parts are ordered, which ever comes first. You Lucky dog you!!!

Just kidding...What a nice setup that is..Do you have any connections at FOX? LOL

Actually we replaced the old tube channel 8 transmitter we had been running since 1981 and FOX was generous enough to let us buy 3 transmitters, two solid state channel 8 transmitters that post transition will turn into 3 channel 8 digital transmitters and one channel 35 IOT for digital to go along with the low power solid state channel 35 digital we had been running since 2002 so technically we have 4 transmitters, 2 per channel (that will turn into 3 on channel 8 post transition) and 2 sets of 3 antennas, a main and aux on the main tower for both channels and a single aux for each channel on the aux tower. If anyone else had owned us at the time we built this, we would have been lucky to have a lean too added on the existing building and no aux antennas on a tower big enough to just hold a channel 8 antenna and a channel 35 antenna and no backup tower. FOX REALLY hates to go off the air! :)

If interested, check out Scott Fybush's Tower Site of the Week. We were featured last year. http://www.fybush.com/sites/2008/site-081121.html

Hello,

Here is a good link for reception tips on UHF signals. This is mostly intended for the Newbies on here, but you may learn something from it too.

http://www.tvantenna.com/support/tutorials/uhf.html

FOX REALLY hates to go off the air! :)[/QUOTE]

As do our owners !! We will have a 2.5 KW low power solid state backup at one site, but the other site is still up in the air. They are considering using the current analog as a converted Digital transmitter. It is a Comark 60 KW klystron transmitter, even though we do have a solid state flea power transmitter at that same site. It was a starter transmitter at ( Don't Laugh) 250 watts, ( Yes..I did type 250 watts), but Trip could pick it up at around 90 miles away when it was on the air. I have Ham equipment that puts out more power than that, but not from 4000 ft above sea level !!

At least you won't have to many transmitters to dispose of. We will have at least 2, and possibly 3 klystron transmitters to dispose of. That makes 6 klystrons, 5 beam supplies, 2 or three transmitters, 5 heat exchangers, about 3 to 400 gallons of SR-1 to get recycled, and miles of electrical wire to recycle too. I wonder how many stations budgeted for all of the hidden costs over and beyond just new transmitters, towers,antennas, exciters, encoders, mux'es, mobile ATSC, HD this and HD that and up/down converters etc. To much technology !!! Some times I feel like Mr. ROBOTO !! Thank You VERY MUCH OH Mr. ROBOTO for doing the job that nobody wants to...!!

I'm picking up WFMY-DT3 with my receivers but there is no programming. I saw earlier posts about additional channels for the NCAA tournament, but that's not going on now and the channel just popped up within the last 2 weeks. Anyone know if anything is being added?

WFMY 2-3 was only for the NCAA. They just haven't taken it out of the PSIP header. There is nothing there.

I see WGSR-LD has returned to the air this morning on RF 47. They are breaking up a little when the trees move though. I hear they are operating on a generator while Duhe power reconfigures their electrical connection.

They still are fuzzy and right channel only with no EPG but PSIP data.

For those of you interested (or that may have missed it), National Geographic is re-airing the episode of World's Toughest Fixes where the host helps replace an antenna on top of a 2,000' TV tower. It was pretty interesting. Show starts at 5:00p today.
NatGeo Show Link (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/2-000-foot-tower-5-seg-3564/Overview)

Been there. Done that. Seen it live! ;)

For those of you interested (or that may have missed it), National Geographic is re-airing the episode of World's Toughest Fixes where the host helps replace an antenna on top of a 2,000' TV tower. It was pretty interesting. Show starts at 5:00p today.
NatGeo Show Link (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/2-000-foot-tower-5-seg-3564/Overview)

Thanks. Got it on now!:D

Thanks. Got it on now!:D

Ditto -

You couldn't pay me enough to do that !

Ditto -

You couldn't pay me enough to do that !

Oh man, I would kill to go up there!

Oh man, I would kill to go up there!

I'd love to climb something like that (or at least be given an opportunity). I've got friends who do maintenance work on water towers and I've always thought it would be cool to be up there. Rock climbing is fun enough, I figure I'd like to give towers a try.

Ditto -

You couldn't pay me enough to do that !

I think my price would be a billion dollars.:D I don't know, I might would do it for a couple of million. I'd probably pass out. I don't even ride roller coasters anymore. Last one I rode was the one in Myrtle Beach, and that was one too many.:o

For those of you interested (or that may have missed it), National Geographic is re-airing the episode of World's Toughest Fixes where the host helps replace an antenna on top of a 2,000' TV tower. It was pretty interesting. Show starts at 5:00p today.
NatGeo Show Link (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/2-000-foot-tower-5-seg-3564/Overview)

Dang...I'll have to catch it on Aug. 13th, if I can remember it then. Thank you for the reminder!

I'd love to climb something like that (or at least be given an opportunity). I've got friends who do maintenance work on water towers and I've always thought it would be cool to be up there. Rock climbing is fun enough, I figure I'd like to give towers a try.

LOL, ironically, I was UP a 150ft water tower today, doing signal testing. It was a good workout in terms of physical and safety gear. It is unreal looking down on everyone in the "little" "small" houses below. I would love to go up a 1000+ft tower, if at least once, just to see what it is like!

...is coming up and I'm gonna get my dad a HDTV this year, mainly because I won one in a raffle at church. Here's my dilema, the one I won is 32" LCD, prolly 720p, they are gonna order it so i don't know the exact specs. I have 3 plasmas at home 2x42" and a 50". I want to downgrade one of the 42" because i found this antique cabinet that a 32-37" tv would fit but not my 42". My dad has basic cable and lives in Burlington so he has Time-Warner, with that package are the HDTV feeds included? I haven't had cable for 15yrs so I don't know how they operate. The reason why I ask is because the plasma I may give him does not have a tuner so he is gonna need a box of some sort to get HDTV either OTA or Cable. I'm pretty sure Time-Warner will charge for their box so I'm trying to figure out if i should get him an OTA receiver box instead. I guess i'm looking for some basic guidance on Time-Warner and some opinions on how to get my dad some HDTV programming. He is not going to want to pay more on his cable bill than he is paying now for sure. Thanks in advance.

...is coming up and I'm gonna get my dad a HDTV this year, mainly because I won one in a raffle at church. Here's my dilema, the one I won is 32" LCD, prolly 720p, they are gonna order it so i don't know the exact specs. I have 3 plasmas at home 2x42" and a 50". I want to downgrade one of the 42" because i found this antique cabinet that a 32-37" tv would fit but not my 42". My dad has basic cable and lives in Burlington so he has Time-Warner, with that package are the HDTV feeds included? I haven't had cable for 15yrs so I don't know how they operate. The reason why I ask is because the plasma I may give him does not have a tuner so he is gonna need a box of some sort to get HDTV either OTA or Cable. I'm pretty sure Time-Warner will charge for their box so I'm trying to figure out if i should get him an OTA receiver box instead. I guess i'm looking for some basic guidance on Time-Warner and some opinions on how to get my dad some HDTV programming. He is not going to want to pay more on his cable bill than he is paying now for sure. Thanks in advance.

I believe there will be a higher price for your dad to go from basic cable to digital access, not sure what the delta is though. I don't believe they charge separately for the set top box and they don't charge for their standard HD channel offerings. If he doesn't want any increase in price then TW is probably not the way to go. Have you considered switching him over to a satellite package. They seem to be pretty price competitive with cable.

If he only watches the over the air stuff, maybe the OTA set top box is the way to go.

Your best bet with TW is to call their sales number and explain what you want and see what kind of price they offer. Good luck and have fun with it.

just chatted with TWC and now i remember why i left them. only way to get local hd channel is $50 per month. Anyone have a suggestion on a OTA box? He's in Burlington so at least he'll can have access to RDU and Triad signals with a good antennae.

just chatted with TWC and now i remember why i left them. only way to get local hd channel is $50 per month. Anyone have a suggestion on a OTA box? He's in Burlington so at least he'll can have access to RDU and Triad signals with a good antennae.

What?

I just checked online. For the GSO area, "broadcast cable" (local channels) is $7.95/month, and the "basic cable" (75 channels) is $57.92/month.

ooops - you want HD channels....That's $49.95/month for "access" to over 300 channels.

But I thought TWC was the home of free HD? :rolleyes:

But I thought TWC was the home of free HD? :rolleyes:

You get what you pay for! ;)

On June 1, WXII changed their 12-2 channel from Weather Plus to "This TV".

Today I noticed that WCWG has has changed their 20-2 channel to "Video Mix". I'm not sure what it is, but it they seem to be showing Hip Hop music videos. It's not my kind of music, but it's nice to see that they're using their sub channel for something other than a repeat of their main.

Today I noticed that WCWG has has changed their 20-2 channel to "Video Mix". I'm not sure what it is, but it they seem to be showing Hip Hop music videos. It's not my kind of music, but it's nice to see that they're using their sub channel for something other than a repeat of their main.

We saw it yesterday and I don't think anyone is actually LISTENING to what the words are since we had a couple of viewers call US and ask why was WCWG running VULGAR language on 20-2.

A totally useless piece of trivia; the FCC has "clarified" that full power TV stations terminating analog on June 12th can use their analog call signs post transition without notifying the FCC. If a station wishes to continue to use -DT on their call sign, they must notify the FCC.

Local stations analog call signs are:
WFMY-TV
WGHP
WXII-TV
WGPX
WCWG
WUNL-TV
WXLV-TV
WMYV
WLXI-TV

We have decided to use the analog call sign and drop the suffix -DT. You will see it slowly go away as we rotate the different promos and show opens out and replace them with new ones. I don't know what the other stations may do.

A bit off-subject, but today I was on Poor Mountain and with nothing more than a wire in the back of the TV, aside from 7/10/13/15/21/27/38, the analog signals of 12 and 61 were quite watchable up there, even with all the other RF floating around.

Next week I'll be back up there with a digital tuner and hopefully a roof antenna.

- Trip

trying to decide whether or not to spend around $1,000 on a Tivo HDXL and lifetime service or to just stay with the HD-DVR from Time Warner....I mean its not like I'm going to end up paying $1000 for the box rental over the next 5 or so years...not to mention I would have to get a Cable card which cost slightly less than the box per month I believe AND that SDV Box...

What do you guys recommend?? those that have a Tivo is it TRULY worth it?? I mean if it lst 10 or so year I could see the worth in it then but if not I cant see it

trying to decide whether or not to spend around $1,000 on a Tivo HDXL and lifetime service or to just stay with the HD-DVR from Time Warner....I mean its not like I'm going to end up paying $1000 for the box rental over the next 5 or so years...not to mention I would have to get a Cable card which cost slightly less than the box per month I believe AND that SDV Box...

What do you guys recommend?? those that have a Tivo is it TRULY worth it?? I mean if it lst 10 or so year I could see the worth in it then but if not I cant see it

Given all the limitations (cost, cable card, time to recoup), for me: no. I'd probably consider an HDTV before that. Or, actually, what I did do was just switch to directv. It's not Tivo, but it's a lot better than the TWC box.

Don't hold me to this but I heard that Navigator was comeing to Greensboro and the Triad during July and August.It was a half reliable source that told me I understand the testing was compete and it was now ready for deployment right after the digitial switchover..

Given all the limitations (cost, cable card, time to recoup), for me: no. I'd probably consider an HDTV before that. Or, actually, what I did do was just switch to directv. It's not Tivo, but it's a lot better than the TWC box.

Thanks for the reply. I've considered getting satellite a few times. Turn offs are the limitations as to where they can go, Need for a box on EVERY TV, the occasional loss of signals, and the contract/deposit. Where I stand now I might just wait things out for a while to see what these new Samsung boxes are going to be like. I hear you can stream recorded shows to other TVs in the house(although it requires more than one box) Like you said I'd come off better buying another HDTV, lol. I just wish that I could build an HTPC that allowed for Cable Cards. That would be my ULTIMATE Solution. Maybe when Tru2Way takes off it will allow for Custom PC parts.

Don't hold me to this but I heard that Navigator was comeing to Greensboro and the Triad during July and August.It was a half reliable source that told me I understand the testing was compete and it was now ready for deployment right after the digitial switchover..

The sooner we get navigator the better. From what I've heard thats the only thing holding back those new Samsung DVRs

Everyone I have have heard who has used Navigator hasn't been impressed. I had one TWC employee tell me that they didn't like Navigator either, but TWC owns the intellectual property of Navigator and that is why they going to it.

Thanks for the reply. I've considered getting satellite a few times. Turn offs are the limitations as to where they can go, Need for a box on EVERY TV, the occasional loss of signals, and the contract/deposit. Where I stand now I might just wait things out for a while to see what these new Samsung boxes are going to be like. I hear you can stream recorded shows to other TVs in the house(although it requires more than one box) Like you said I'd come off better buying another HDTV, lol. I just wish that I could build an HTPC that allowed for Cable Cards. That would be my ULTIMATE Solution. Maybe when Tru2Way takes off it will allow for Custom PC parts.


Actually when I said HDTV I meant HTPC :)

The limitations are certainly true regarding satellite, except for signal loss. Even those horrific storms we just had over the past week, I only lost the signal once and that was for a few seconds. Truly, I lost the TWC signal much more frequently.

Now, does cable offer broadcast HDTV over cable on basic? Can you hook that up and get HDTV without digital cable? Someone told me that was possible, but it's something I never heard of. Seems like it would eat a lot of bandwidth. But at any rate, a couple options around this would be: placing the box elsewhere and using RF remote, or hooking up an antenna in the attic (or wherever) and supplementing OTA w/ satellite. The biggest drawback (IMHO) is the 2 year contract.

I'm thinking more and more about getting a HTPC with a standard HT form factor, so it blends in.

Everyone I have have heard who has used Navigator hasn't been impressed. I had one TWC employee tell me that they didn't like Navigator either, but TWC owns the intellectual property of Navigator and that is why they going to it.

Every time I use it in other parts of the state, I think it's awful. I am not looking forward to the change.

Thought I would pass along what we plan on doing Friday night for the transition. We plan on turning off the channel 8 analog transmitter at 11:04pm but before we do that, at the end of the 10pm News we will have a short history of how we got here and what viewers can expect to happen. Then we are planning to run an old style sign off and then we will have one of the retired transmitter engineers will turn off the analog channel 8 transmitter as I turn on the digital channel 8 transmitter. We will have this in what we call a double box or two windows on the screen, one with me and the digital transmitter and one with the analog transmitter since they are in different buildings 600 ft a part. We will leave channel 35 on until midnight and then turn it off. By doing this, the cable companies will have a few minutes to change their digital receivers from 35 to 8 with minimum disruption to the viewers. This means that if you are watching channel 35, you will see the whole analog shut down without interruption. Of course if you are watching channel 8 analog when we turn off the analog transmitter, then you will not see all of it! :D

I have written a blog on our website about this and other DTV things at http://community.myfox8.com/_One-Week-To-Go-to-All-Digital-TV/BLOG/336052/96365.html?widgetId=157305 and I have also set up a Twitter account for up to the minute info and I will try and Twitter Friday night as things progress. That account is http://www.twitter.com/FOX8DTV

foxeng,

That'll be neat to watch. Thanks for the heads up!

Every time I use it in other parts of the state, I think it's awful. I am not looking forward to the change.

I have used Navigator (the new most current version) and find it to be a good guide. Lot more features than SARA. But like it or not it's comeing.

anyone else's hd feed change to sd with 1min left in ot of the lakers game. sd is horrible.

Just to let you guys know, I am still around. I have been working a lot lately that has nothing to do with the transition, but we are ready for Friday. (Have been since February!). The issue now is to get everyone on the same page!

It looks like all the local stations are terminating analog between 11pm and midnight. Channel 2, 12 and 16 are the only approved nightlight stations in the market and I know that channel 16 WILL NOT nightlight. I haven't heard about channel 2 or 12 but I suspect one or both will nightlight. I have many a meeting this week dealing with Friday so I am not sure if I will get any real work done before Friday!:D

After turning on the backup digital transmitter Friday night, next Monday we begin to tear apart the main channel 8 transmitter and reconfigure it by moving half of it to the old transmitter building, repositioning the remaining half and Monday the 22nd the factory is expected in to start the conversion of the transmitter. If all goes as planned, by the end of that week we will turn off the backup channel 8 digital transmitter and turn on the main transmitter on the main tower back on, this time in digital then begin the conversion of the remaining half that we moved to the backup tower. Then someone with a higher pay grade than me will make a decision on where the channel 35 transmitter will end up.

Lots to do.

anyone else's hd feed change to sd with 1min left in ot of the lakers game. sd is horrible.

WXLV does that a lot. They appear to have the HD feed set up on automatic timer so they don't have to have somebody there to switch it back to SD manually. So when a game runs longer than normal, this happens.

Actually when I said HDTV I meant HTPC :)

The limitations are certainly true regarding satellite, except for signal loss. Even those horrific storms we just had over the past week, I only lost the signal once and that was for a few seconds. Truly, I lost the TWC signal much more frequently.

Now, does cable offer broadcast HDTV over cable on basic? Can you hook that up and get HDTV without digital cable? Someone told me that was possible, but it's something I never heard of. Seems like it would eat a lot of bandwidth. But at any rate, a couple options around this would be: placing the box elsewhere and using RF remote, or hooking up an antenna in the attic (or wherever) and supplementing OTA w/ satellite. The biggest drawback (IMHO) is the 2 year contract.

I'm thinking more and more about getting a HTPC with a standard HT form factor, so it blends in.

well knowing that signal loss isnt that big of an issue makes me feel a better about satellite but that contract is a MAJOR Turn off...I have an AT&T Go Phone to avoid getting into a contract for cell service....lol. And yeah, I most likely will build an HTPC, something that goes with the other things I have in my entertainment area. I just hope Tru2Way takes off and we get tuner cards that support it.



Everyone I have have heard who has used Navigator hasn't been impressed. I had one TWC employee tell me that they didn't like Navigator either, but TWC owns the intellectual property of Navigator and that is why they going to it.

Every time I use it in other parts of the state, I think it's awful. I am not looking forward to the change.

I've used it at my moms house in Raleigh as well as my Grandmothers and I havent noticed any problems other than a slight hangup when trying to watch some on demand video but nothing major.

WXLV does that a lot. They appear to have the HD feed set up on automatic timer so they don't have to have somebody there to switch it back to SD manually. So when a game runs longer than normal, this happens.
yea this has got to be the worse ABC affiliate I have ever seen. Being in Raleigh most of my life I got spoiled by WTVD11 there.

I found some answers on this from 7 years ago on the thread, but I'm wondering what the consensus is now. I'm sick of the constant price increases from TWC, and the less than stellar picture and sound.

Is the picture or sound any better with Direct TV or Dish?

I think so. I have had D* since 1997 and D* HD since 2003.

I found some answers on this from 7 years ago on the thread, but I'm wondering what the consensus is now. I'm sick of the constant price increases from TWC, and the less than stellar picture and sound.

Is the picture or sound any better with Direct TV or Dish?

I don't think there's a consensus, but rather personal opinion. About 6 months ago, I switched from TWC to DirecTv. To me, Directv is superior. I don't know about picture quality -- the principal problem, I think, is garbage in/garbage out. I'm impressed with true HD material via satellite, and there are more HD channels.

Price-wise, I don't think Satellite will ultimately save you money -- or if it does, not much. The biggest advantage, I find, is the hardware, guide, DVR, and online guide. The directv interface can be a tad slow at times, but compared to the problems I had w/ TWC's interface losing recordings (or just missing them), it's a pleasure.

I've used it at my moms house in Raleigh as well as my Grandmothers and I havent noticed any problems other than a slight hangup when trying to watch some on demand video but nothing major.

My experience with Navigator has been that it is noticeably slower when changing channels. (particularly going up and down the channels.) No matter how much better the guide is, channel switching lag is likely to drive me crazy. I hope I will see better performance when the switch is made.

My experience with Navigator has been that it is noticeably slower when changing channels. (particularly going up and down the channels.) No matter how much better the guide is, channel switching lag is likely to drive me crazy. I hope I will see better performance when the switch is made.

The version of Navigator I have at my beach house is as fast or faster than the SARA units I have here in Greensboro. Last weekend at the coast it was pouring rain. I got to play with Navigator for 6 hours without any problems at all. I have a new 8300HDC with the newest version of Navigator on it and both working very well. I think the newer your box the faster Navigator is.

WXLV does that a lot. They appear to have the HD feed set up on automatic timer so they don't have to have somebody there to switch it back to SD manually. So when a game runs longer than normal, this happens.

if that is the case they are really lame!!! glad i don't watch many shows on that channel. Lost and sports is it.

For those interested, I was quoted in todays N&R on the front page about the transition. Interesting article. I spent 20 minutes on the phone with the lady explaining about the importance of antennas and such about how much has happened since DTV was introduced in the 90's and my only quotes deal with "feelings." I just don't get the paper biz. :) I honestly don't think anyone cares about my "feelings" on the subject, and why should they? Oh well. Enjoy!

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/06/09/article/it_s_time_to_switch_to_digital_tv

I undertand that within the next 4 weeks Fox News hd, Fox Business News Hd, The Weather Channel HD, E Entertainment HD and maybe The Cartoon Network HD are to be added to our lineup in Time Warner Carolinas.

I undertand that within the next 4 weeks Fox News hd, Fox Business News Hd, The Weather Channel HD, E Entertainment HD and maybe The Cartoon Network HD are to be added to our lineup in Time Warner Carolinas.

That would be great! i've been waiting or a while on Fox News HD.

I undertand that within the next 4 weeks Fox News hd, Fox Business News Hd, The Weather Channel HD, E Entertainment HD and maybe The Cartoon Network HD are to be added to our lineup in Time Warner Carolinas.

do your sources have any info on Lifetime-HD? That is the one channel my wife would like to see added.:rolleyes:

BTW I learned from an engineer within TW-Triad that they do plan to roll out Navigator in late July early August. I think they plan to download it by set top box model #. Not sure what the order will be but he did say my SA8300HD would probably get it in early Aug

do your sources have any info on Lifetime-HD? That is the one channel my wife would like to see added.:rolleyes:

BTW I learned from an engineer within TW-Triad that they do plan to roll out Navigator in late July early August. I think they plan to download it by set top box model #. Not sure what the order will be but he did say my SA8300HD would probably get it in early Aug

Sorry no news as yet on Lifetime HD. Will post if I hear anything.

ncinsguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncrules View Post
"WXLV does that a lot. They appear to have the HD feed set up on automatic timer so they don't have to have somebody there to switch it back to SD manually. So when a game runs longer than normal, this happens."

"if that is the case they are really lame!!! glad i don't watch many shows on that channel. Lost and sports is it."

AggieCEO

Quote:

"Originally Posted by uncrules View Post
WXLV does that a lot. They appear to have the HD feed set up on automatic timer so they don't have to have somebody there to switch it back to SD manually. So when a game runs longer than normal, this happens."

"yea this has got to be the worse ABC affiliate I have ever seen. Being in Raleigh most of my life I got spoiled by WTVD11 there."
------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong.... the actual cause was a contractual obligation to run a crawl for the NC Education Lottery. Our keyer is SD SDI only at present.
This will change.

Not saying we are perfect, but I won't take blame where none is deserved.

Rickey.

Ok I stand corrected in this case but I've seen it happen on long running college football games that come on Saturday. I believe somebody who used to work at WXLV and posted here had indicated that a timer was used for the games on Saturday.

ncinsguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncrules View Post
"WXLV does that a lot. They appear to have the HD feed set up on automatic timer so they don't have to have somebody there to switch it back to SD manually. So when a game runs longer than normal, this happens."

"if that is the case they are really lame!!! glad i don't watch many shows on that channel. Lost and sports is it."

AggieCEO

Quote:

"Originally Posted by uncrules View Post
WXLV does that a lot. They appear to have the HD feed set up on automatic timer so they don't have to have somebody there to switch it back to SD manually. So when a game runs longer than normal, this happens."

"yea this has got to be the worse ABC affiliate I have ever seen. Being in Raleigh most of my life I got spoiled by WTVD11 there."
------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong.... the actual cause was a contractual obligation to run a crawl for the NC Education Lottery. Our keyer is SD SDI only at present.
This will change.

Not saying we are perfect, but I won't take blame where none is deserved.

Rickey.

i'm not an expert on any of this of course but why do things have to be switched back and forth. it's an HD channel so just transmit everything in HD. just like SD channels are transmitted in SD

I honestly don't think anyone cares about my "feelings" on the subject, and why should they? Oh well. Enjoy!]

Because "You" are an engineer. "You" are NOT allowed to have feelings. However, "You" are NOT allowed to hurt anyone else's feelings, especially those in news.:p

"You" are NOT allowed to hurt anyone else's feelings, especially those in news.:p

Sure you DON'T work at my place?! :D

It appears the digital transition has begun (even though I THINK I can prove it started in 1997!). WSLS-TV channel 10 Roanoke has started running a nightlight signal. WDBJ and WSET hasn't but WSLS has. Don't know how long they plan on running it but it has begun. T-2 days and counting.

I don't think WSLS can nightlight past June 12 since WSWP-DT 10 in West Virginia wants to power up.

I took some video of the nightlight on WSLS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFbn5rRe15k

And yes, that is how it looks coming out of the transmitter.

- Trip

I undertand that within the next 4 weeks Fox News hd, Fox Business News Hd, The Weather Channel HD, E Entertainment HD and maybe The Cartoon Network HD are to be added to our lineup in Time Warner Carolinas.


nice....

Quote:

"i'm not an expert on any of this of course but why do things have to be switched back and forth. it's an HD channel so just transmit everything in HD. just like SD channels are transmitted in SD"
---------------------------------------------------------------

I wish it were that simple. And someday it will be.
All it takes is time and money....lots of money.

As it exists now we are a hybrid system regarding HD.
We use a master control bypass switch for HD.
Our MC switcher is SD only.
And the only way that we can run crawls is in SD mode.
Complicated to say the least.
In essence we route HD programming from the HD sat receiver almost directly to the encoder.
In this mode most of the traditional functions of master control such as crawls, EBS, etc. are not available.

I personally apologize for the less than perfect viewing experience referred to in earlier posts.
We have a plan that makes us HD throughout the entire plant.
Now I am waiting for the huge sack of money to fall from the ceiling..... Ha!

And yes the master control switcher is automated to a large degree.
And during overruns the operators are instructed to do manual overrides where necessary and possible to preserve HD continuity.

In the particular instance mentioned this was impossible given our current equipment lineup, and contractual obligations to run a crawl.

Thanks for everyone's patience regarding this, I am pursuing progress in this area..... Remember when I lobbied for 5.1 over at FMY?

Rickey.

Quote:

"i'm not an expert on any of this of course but why do things have to be switched back and forth. it's an HD channel so just transmit everything in HD. just like SD channels are transmitted in SD"
---------------------------------------------------------------

I wish it were that simple. And someday it will be.
All it takes is time and money....lots of money.

As it exists now we are a hybrid system regarding HD.
We use a master control bypass switch for HD.
Our MC switcher is SD only.
And the only way that we can run crawls is in SD mode.
Complicated to say the least.
In essence we route HD programming from the HD sat receiver almost directly to the encoder.
In this mode most of the traditional functions of master control such as crawls, EBS, etc. are not available.

I personally apologize for the less than perfect viewing experience referred to in earlier posts.
We have a plan that makes us HD throughout the entire plant.
Now I am waiting for the huge sack of money to fall from the ceiling..... Ha!

And yes the master control switcher is automated to a large degree.
And during overruns the operators are instructed to do manual overrides where necessary and possible to preserve HD continuity.

In the particular instance mentioned this was impossible given our current equipment lineup, and contractual obligations to run a crawl.

Thanks for everyone's patience regarding this, I am pursuing progress in this area..... Remember when I lobbied for 5.1 over at FMY?

Rickey.

Thanks for the explanation. I do remember when you were lobbying for 5.1 at WFMY. It is really sad what is happening over there in regards to the veteran anchors. For years we had Bates, Hughes, Kerr and Chilton. Now only Chilton is left. :( I guess you got out in time. If this is happening to the on air talent I can imagine what is happening to the engineers, production assistants and other behind the scenes people. Garnett's newspaper trouble are helping to hurt WFMY.

It appears the digital transition has begun (even though I THINK I can prove it started in 1997!). WSLS-TV channel 10 Roanoke has started running a nightlight signal. WDBJ and WSET hasn't but WSLS has. Don't know how long they plan on running it but it has begun. T-2 days and counting.

I am quite pleased that my belief that congress would wimp out and delay this again has proven to be unfounded. So long analog!!!... Hey, wait? Why doesn't my TV work?! ;)

I am quite pleased that my belief that congress would wimp out and delay this again has proven to be unfounded. So long analog!!!... Hey, wait? Why doesn't my TV work?! ;)

So long analog and welcome more HD and NAVIGATOR GUIDE.

...I spent 20 minutes on the phone with the lady explaining about the importance of antennas and such about how much has happened since DTV was introduced in the 90's and my only quotes deal with "feelings." I just don't get the paper biz...

i think the problem is they basically have the story written before they interview anybody. they already knew what they wanted you to say in their pre-designed article. it wasn't to be about all the great things DTV has in store for us. it was just a fluff story on the analog cut-off.

Well D-Day is here. "Time to make the donuts!"

Well D-Day is here. "Time to make the donuts!"


Foxeng,

As you know we bit the bullet on Feb 17.
In the interim I must have talked with at least 500 viewers in our market and some outside our market.
With each call I left the viewers with a programmed DTV set or STB.
And in almost every instance they received all of the locals.

I will send you a bill.....:p:p:p;):)

Just kiddin of course.

Rickey.

Analog Broadcasting's end is finally here....Beams Off Scotty !!

Quote:

"i'm not an expert on any of this of course but why do things have to be switched back and forth. it's an HD channel so just transmit everything in HD. just like SD channels are transmitted in SD"
---------------------------------------------------------------

I wish it were that simple. And someday it will be.
All it takes is time and money....lots of money.

As it exists now we are a hybrid system regarding HD.
We use a master control bypass switch for HD.
Our MC switcher is SD only.
And the only way that we can run crawls is in SD mode.
Complicated to say the least.
In essence we route HD programming from the HD sat receiver almost directly to the encoder.
In this mode most of the traditional functions of master control such as crawls, EBS, etc. are not available.

I personally apologize for the less than perfect viewing experience referred to in earlier posts.
We have a plan that makes us HD throughout the entire plant.
Now I am waiting for the huge sack of money to fall from the ceiling..... Ha!

And yes the master control switcher is automated to a large degree.
And during overruns the operators are instructed to do manual overrides where necessary and possible to preserve HD continuity.

In the particular instance mentioned this was impossible given our current equipment lineup, and contractual obligations to run a crawl.

Thanks for everyone's patience regarding this, I am pursuing progress in this area..... Remember when I lobbied for 5.1 over at FMY?

Rickey.

We are in the same boat as you..We submitted a 2009 budget that included all of the goodies to do local HD up/down convert etc. but the economy shot that down after it was tentatively approved by corporate, and it is hard to get the point across of exactly how expensive all of this new digital technology is to the average viewer.

If that pile of money falls your way, kindly direct who ever dropped it up my way in Virginia, as we could use a pile of it here ourselves. Gotta run to the mountain, for it is time to cut the analog hog off FOREVER !!

I will send you a bill.....:p:p:p;):)

Hey, we needed someone to plow the row! :)

For those with D* HD receivers with OTA tuners, about 9:30 this morning D* updated your receivers to find our OTA signal on 8 instead of 35. So if you tune to 8-1 on a D* HD OTA equipped receiver, we ain't there, yet! When we turn on digital channel 8, we will be (we should; we hope). The sat delivered SD/HD won't change until sometime after 11:05pm tonight only for the time required to change the channel from 35 to 8 and unhook the 35 antenna and hook up the 8 antenna. To help the cablecos and sat, we will keep the channel 35 up until 11:59 to make it easier on them so for 55 minutes we will have both digital channel 8 and digital channel 35 on the air and why you need to wait to rescan until after midnight so you don't rescan the wrong channel.

For those with D* HD receivers with OTA tuners, about 9:30 this morning D* updated your receivers to find our OTA signal on 8 instead of 35. So if you tune to 8-1 on a D* HD OTA equipped receiver, we ain't there, yet! When we turn on digital channel 8, we will be (we should; we hope). The sat delivered SD/HD won't change until sometime after 11:05pm tonight only for the time required to change the channel from 35 to 8 and unhook the 35 antenna and hook up the 8 antenna. To help the cablecos and sat, we will keep the channel 35 up until 11:59 to make it easier on them so for 55 minutes we will have both digital channel 8 and digital channel 35 on the air and why you need to wait to rescan until after midnight so you don't rescan the wrong channel.

I'm fearful my UHF only antenna is going to leave me high and dry as far as 8-1 goes. I doubt it has any VHF high capability.

I see WFMY has started nightlighting. Not sure what time they started since they were there around 9AM. Everyone else is still in regular programming.

I'm fearful my UHF only antenna is going to leave me high and dry as far as 8-1 goes. I doubt it has any VHF high capability.

What kind is it?

I'm fearful my UHF only antenna is going to leave me high and dry as far as 8-1 goes. I doubt it has any VHF high capability.

If it's a bowtie it will probably work, at reduced or no gain that is.
If it's a yagi probably not.

My CM 4221 actually receives Ch 2 with a preamp, not great but usable.
Good luck sir.

Rickey.

What kind is it?

It was from Radio Shack simply called UHF-75. It's shaped like an arrow.

No more sync buzz on 6 meters! WooHoo

Does anybody around here sell a channel master 4228 HD? I've been looking at that one for a while anticipating that my current antenna wouldn't work once 8 went back to 8 from 35.

Uncrules. I modified a Winegard HD 8800 to receive VHF. I just made the back screen continuous by adding a strip of screen across the middle. (See Greenville NC HD topic) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=393419&page=208 I have channel 8 also out of Morehead. If mine works for this channel I'll post. I won't know until tomorrow.

I don't like the new 4228. HD primer says it is a mess... An old 4228 would be a lot better.

I will of course still get WGHP DT from D* but I like using the OTA version when possible.

Uncrules. I modified a Winegard HD 8800 to receive VHF. I just made the back screen continuous by adding a strip of screen across the middle. (See Greenville NC HD topic) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=393419&page=208 I have channel 8 also out of Morehead. If mine works for this channel I'll post. I won't know until tomorrow.

I don't like the new 4228. HD primer says it is a mess... An old 4228 would be a lot better.

Thanks jspENC

I'm fearful my UHF only antenna is going to leave me high and dry as far as 8-1 goes. I doubt it has any VHF high capability.

Does anybody around here sell a channel master 4228 HD? I've been looking at that one for a while anticipating that my current antenna wouldn't work once 8 went back to 8 from 35.

Dow Electronics in Greensboro had them a while back.

Electronic Distibuting INC. In Winston Salem will probably have the Winegard flavor of this antenna.

good luck

Rickey

WFXR / FOX 21-27 in Roanoke Va.took 2 UHF analog hogs off the air at 12:00PM today. The Roanoke area broadcasters must have done a good job educating the public, for we only got about 5 calls as of 2:30 PM, and we actually had an FCC observer at the station to gauge the response

The line voltage on the digital actually came up by 2 volts per phase due to dropping the extra load of the analog hog! Now the real work begins by having 3 analog transmitters to "RECYCLE". I guess at some point in the future, some of the metals used in the old transmitters may actually end up becoming the new Toyota in your driveway

We can now be considered Green Broadcasters, as our power bill will drop by at least 1/3 or more. I guess Digital does have some advantages after all. The WWCW transmitter will go to full power tonight after 12:00 Midnight. At about 12:30, we will kick it up to full power. Good riddance to the analog hogs of yesteryear !!

Guess the Greensboro market will be one of the last to completely change over. I think we will be the last in NC.

Anyway, I just finished being interviewed for the 10 O'Clock News about rescanning and antennas. Hope my hair looks OK! :)

Anyway, I just finished being interviewed for the 10 O'Clock News about rescanning and antennas. Hope my hair looks OK! :)

dang..and I don't have my Ch-8 antenna up yet! :(

Hello all, I am picking up WFMY-DT here in Southern Spartanburg County, SC with about a SS of 70-80%. I live just off of I-26 at exit 38. When I did a rescan this morning I got 61 DT(including subs) The Greenville, SC market, Charlotte, 2 from Columbia, and WFMY-DT. Analog shutdown is good, LOL

dang..and I don't have my Ch-8 antenna up yet! :(

That is OK. We will still be analog then!

When I first got home from work 8-1 was dead on my OTA setup on my HD DVRs. But around 5:30 or so and even now, I'm able to get 8.1 again. Foxeng, did you guys light up 8 early or did D* go back to 35 in there database of locals.

Here at home..now I can almost decode WCWG-DT ,WXLV-DT, and WFMY-DT off the backside of my Square Shooter.

When I first got home from work 8-1 was dead on my OTA setup on my HD DVRs. But around 5:30 or so and even now, I'm able to get 8.1 again. Foxeng, did you guys light up 8 early or did D* go back to 35 in there database of locals.

No. D8 will not be on until 11:05. D* had an audio issue around 5:30. I just hope they haven't loaded an old file and it has set 35 back up.

Here at home..now I can almost decode WCWG-DT and WXLV-DT off the backside of my Square Shooter.

How well does it work for 8? You should know!! By the way, is WSOC nightlighting for 30 days or are have they shutdown already?

SS not very good on Ch-8, I have a Cut-8 antenna and cut preamp coming to try for you and WOLO. Here is plot for my house.

Nightlight here is WJZY Ch-46, they have a pretty snazzy DTv loop going. WOLO is nightlighting too.

No. D8 will not be on until 11:05. D* had an audio issue around 5:30. I just hope they haven't loaded an old file and it has set 35 back up.

8-1 is again out for me. D* must've realized their error and went back to D8.

foxeng,

Well done - you looked great on TV! It was a classy transition sequence, too!

yep, that was very cool foxeng...

question... you may have already told us, but when does d35 go off?
i think i'm still watching 35.

Well I am getting 8-1 unless D* went back to 35. Assuming D* is actually using D8 then I'm getting 100% signal strength on the channel.

At 11:59 I lost the signal on 8-1. I flipped over to 8 HD and the screen was all black. I flipped back to 8-1 and I once again have picture on 8-1. But 8 HD on D* is still black and 8 SD from D* is purple :confused:

Well both 8 HD and 8 SD from D* are back on the air. I still have 8-1 too but now my signal strength meter shows "not acquired" for 8-1, but the channel shows up anyway.

D8 went on at 11:04 and 35 went off at 11:59. I don't know what D* was doing. I checked about 11:40 or so and the SD was purple screen but by the time I left the transmitter at 12:30 we were back up on D*.

Bob and Julie did a great job and the Creative Services guys did a great job with the retrospect and the sign off. I particularly liked the ID STL "card" at the end with the first station logo we could find right after the sign off.

I am getting a full scale reading on D8 here at the house, but I am sure those on the fringe and those with rabbits will have a tough time since most of the rabbit ears have been UHF only but we will deal with it. Come Monday we start the conversion of the main transmitter and hope to have it ready to go by Friday week at the latest.

Dial sure looks weird with just 2 analog stations on and they are nightlighting.

When you finish with the main transmitter will your signal get any stronger? This morning I'm having little more trouble getting 8-1 than I did last night. Sometimes it comes in, sometimes it doesn't.

The signal on the main antenna is directed a little more downward than the back antenna, but the backup is full power. We are finding that many of the HD rabbit ears are UHF only. We bought an antenna last week that was labeled VHF/UHF but when we took it out of the box and assembled it, it was CLEARLY an UHF only antenna. VHF rabbit ears will have the pull out elements on it. If it doesn't, it ain't VHF. Loops and such do not work well, if at all with VHF.

My guess is the FCC is going to have to relook at VHF power levels, something that many in the industry have been saying for a long time. Since 2005, everytime the FCC came out with new post transition channel allocations, the interference tolerences were tighten. In our own case, the first time we looked at channel 8, it looked like we could get about 17 kw. Ultimately, we got 11.5 kw. I was looking at some of the VHF power levels in the northeast and I don't know how some of those stations going to make it with 4 kw, 5 kw and these are legacy big name stations.

The signal this morning is full scale here in north Greensboro with a VHF yagi on my roof at 27 miles.

The signal on the main antenna is directed a little more downward than the back antenna, but the backup is full power. We are finding that many of the HD rabbit ears are UHF only. We bought an antenna last week that was labeled VHF/UHF but when we took it out of the box and assembled it, it was CLEARLY an UHF only antenna. VHF rabbit ears will have the pull out elements on it. If it doesn't, it ain't VHF. Loops and such do not work well, if at all with VHF.

My guess is the FCC is going to have to relook at VHF power levels, something that many in the industry have been saying for a long time. Since 2005, everytime the FCC came out with new post transition channel allocations, the interference tolerences were tighten. In our own case, the first time we looked at channel 8, it looked like we could get about 17 kw. Ultimately, we got 11.5 kw. I was looking at some of the VHF power levels in the northeast and I don't know how some of those stations going to make it with 4 kw, 5 kw and these are legacy big name stations.

The signal this morning is full scale here in north Greensboro with a VHF yagi on my roof at 27 miles.

11.5kW is not as bad as WWBT at 6kW.... That one is painful... I also think that the good signal reports come from people like us with good VHF yagis with good low noise pre-amps.. Everyone who had been "living" with the bad analog image on a given channel, is getting burned this morning...

is anyone else with TWC having SDV issues?? I've been unable to get USAHD, ESPNHD, ESPNUHD, BIOHD, FXHD and a few others off and on since around midnight last night.

Thanks so much for doing that, especially since no other local station bothered to do anything (loved the signoff/Nat'l Anthem)

Too bad you couldn't have had Frank Deal come back on to do some of his shtick.

Hope the feds let you eventually boost your transmission.


Bob and Julie did a great job and the Creative Services guys did a great job with the retrospect and the sign off. I particularly liked the ID STL "card" at the end with the first station logo we could find right after the sign off.

Uncrules,

My UHF 8800 does not work too well for VHF 8, but I am on the fringe, so that may be why. It works very well for VHF 10 and 12 though.

11.5kW is not as bad as WWBT at 6kW.... That one is painful... I also think that the good signal reports come from people like us with good VHF yagis with good low noise pre-amps.. Everyone who had been "living" with the bad analog image on a given channel, is getting burned this morning...

I agree. There are definitely those out there who want maximum effect for little to no effort. I have fielded several of those calls. Then you have those who want to pick up Outer Mongolia on a wet noodle and get mad when you say that is technically impossible and expect rabbit ears to work like a big high gain yagi on a 200 ft. tower. Those are the people you can't deal with. They just will not listen. "The guy at the store I bought it at said..." So many times I want to say to them, why didn't you call the guy who sold it to you? Why you calling me?

Hope the feds let you eventually boost your transmission.

Well we do have authority to go to 18.75 kw but that will require a whole new antenna. We can't go any higher in power with the current antenna unless the FCC changes some rules. The issue with VHF high is not coverage but power density at a given location.

Foxeng,

Have you had time to see how Raleigh comes in? I know you are probably busy with your own channels... I'm getting some of the channels out of there better than others. So far WNCN, WRAL and WRDC are the best for me.

I am getting WUNC with no problem, but this morning none of the other stations are coming in.

I am getting WUNC with no problem, but this morning none of the other stations are coming in.

Thanks. I figured with your huge VHF, WTVD would be the best for you, but if you aren't seeing it, channel 11 must be difficult to grab.

Good job, foxeng.

Will have to check if my antenna is gonna pull in 8. It did with analog.

Joe

Good job, foxeng.

Will have to check if my antenna is gonna pull in 8. It did with analog.

Joefoxeng,

Re-scanned this morning from my house in Northwest Guilford county...

Indoor set-top vhf/uhf antenna ($4.00 special from one of the Big-Lot stores consisting of a tiny single wire loop for UHF and rabbit ears for VHF) and a Insignia set top box, located on second floor of 2 story house.

All in all, 11 channels is not too bad considering I am not using a preamp and not using an outdoor antenna.

The insignia box does not have a 1-10 scale on its signal meter, but I assigned a relative value based on the indication on the screen. The insignia box does allow me to manually tune to an RF channel and add it if I desire. I have two channels that apparently have RF, but not good enough to decode... They are RF channels 18 and 32.

Joe L.

RF Channel Strength (1-10) Digital Channel Distance from TX (miles)
8 6 8-1 24
19 9 20-1 21
29 8 45-1 21
31 7 12-1 30
33 7 48-1 21
43 5 61-1 21
51 6 2-1 20

Digital Channels:
2-1 WFMY HD
2-2 WFMY-SD
8-1 WGHP HD
12-1 WXII
12-2 THIS
20-1 WCWG DT
20-2 WCWG D2
45-1 WXLV DT
48-1 WMYV
61-1 WXLI-SD
61-2 WLXI-HD

18 is WDBJ from Roanoke.

32 is WUNL, PBS, which comes from the same place as WXII.

- Trip

I agree. There are definitely those out there who want maximum effect for little to no effort. I have fielded several of those calls. Then you have those who want to pick up Outer Mongolia on a wet noodle and get mad when you say that is technically impossible and expect rabbit ears to work like a big high gain yagi on a 200 ft. tower. Those are the people you can't deal with. They just will not listen. "The guy at the store I bought it at said..." So many times I want to say to them, why didn't you call the guy who sold it to you? Why you calling me?

I feel for you people who work in the TV broadcast industry over this weekend, people get so angry over loosing "their" stations. Yelling at the engineers does NOT solve anything, that is for sure.

18 is WDBJ from Roanoke.

32 is WUNL, PBS, which comes from the same place as WXII.

- TripRoanoke is about 90 miles from me.... To receive anything on an indoor antenna is a near miracle.

The WUNL station must be using a lower power, or a lower antenna location than WXII if they are on the same mountain. Their signal is stronger, and fluctuating... but unable to be detected.

I figured I'd give the signal report, since the station engineers who post here do so much for us, and they might be better able to know how they're doing based on "typical case" set-top antenna use.

I do have an old (20+year probably) un-amplified outdoor VHF/UHF antenna feeding a two way splitter and two newer HDTV tuners for OTA reception.
I also have TWC, with hundreds of channels of "nothing to watch" so my reliance on the set top box and the old TV is just to have a TV in the spare bedroom where I have no cable connection.

Joe L.

WDBJ is also up 4000 feet. I've seen it on an indoor antenna at 93 miles.

WUNL is weaker for the time being. They are planning to boost power and increase height.

Current: 1571' 197.5 kW DA
Future: 1653' 400 kW DA

- Trip

Roanoke is about 90 miles from me.... To receive anything on an indoor antenna is a near miracle.


Ironically, I may have to switch to Fox out of Roanoke for OTA. I'm getting both ok for now, but because Fox is VHF, it's actually weaker for me than Fox out of Roanoke. (I'm on satellite as well so this only affects OTA TV's I have.) I was kind of worried about this happening. (In my case, my antenna is in the attic...)

I agree. There are definitely those out there who want maximum effect for little to no effort. I have fielded several of those calls. Then you have those who want to pick up Outer Mongolia on a wet noodle and get mad when you say that is technically impossible and expect rabbit ears to work like a big high gain yagi on a 200 ft. tower. Those are the people you can't deal with. They just will not listen. "The guy at the store I bought it at said..." So many times I want to say to them, why didn't you call the guy who sold it to you? Why you calling me?

I WOULD have said that to them! You have too much patience, young Skywalker.......
;)
I've been at a swim meet in High Point all day - haven't had much time to see any OTA. I'll check tonight.

I thought I would report on my results for receiving WGHP-8. I live in Statesville, 58 miles west of the tower. Before the transition, on RF35 the signal always came in strong with a signal strength of about 90. Now, back on RF8 I can't receive it at all. I kind of expected this since I'm using a UHF-only antenna, but I was hoping that my location might put me in a position to grab the signal anyway.

I live on a hill with few trees to interfere with the signal. My Winegard HD-9032 antenna is 30 feet in the air, and I'm using a CM7777 amp, but WGHP didn't even register on my TV. I also have a homemade half dipole antenna sized for channel 11, but that wouldn't get the signal either. The only thing that could find the channel 8 signal is a homemade 4-bowtie antenna that I sat on the driveway and pointed to the east.

Since I want to get channel 8, I'm going to make a half dipole antenna designed for channel 8 and put it in the attic, connecting it using the VHF input on the CM7777 amp. Hopefully that will bring it in.

To give a little background, before the transition I was consistently getting (in the evenings) stations 100 miles away: WUNC-4 in Chapel Hill and WUNF-33 in Asheville. Also, WNSC-30 in Rock Hill, SC, at 75 miles. Occasionally I could even get a few of the Raleigh stations (135 miles), but I haven't been able to find them yet post-transition.

Then you have those who want to pick up Outer Mongolia on a wet noodle and get mad when you say that is technically impossible and expect rabbit ears to work like a big high gain yagi on a 200 ft. tower.
When I was in high-school I worked summers at a local TV shop. I did a lot of antenna installations working for them in and around the Bronx and Westchester County in NY. We mostly used Channel-Master antennas and in upper Westchester the high gain was often needed as it was quite hilly and a direct shot to the transmitters atop the Empire-State-Building was impossible. This was pre cable-TV days and all installations used 300 ohm twinlead.

I was also sent out to do service on TVs in the field. One memorable call was where the person reported that their reception had gotten very snowy.

I went to the home, looked behind the set, and quickly saw the problem.
apparently, the set had been moved when vacuuming, and one lead of the twinlead had become disconnected. That resulted in the snowy signal.

Now, this was when the shop I worked for had a standard "color-TV" service call charge of $39. I explained that I had found the problem, and it was with their antenna wire, and that the $39. charge would still apply even though the problem would only take a few minutes to fix.

The customer watched as I turned the TV around, re-stripped the wire on the twinlead and re-attached it to the screw on the back of the set. The reception was now back to normal.

The customer was still very reluctant to pay me, insisting it had to have been something else I did to get the signal back to normal. He KNEW I did something else... He just KNEW it.

His theory was... he was about 25 miles from the transmitter atop the Empire State Building... and the signal had traveled through the air from the Empire State Building all the way to the antenna on his roof. It then traveled down the twinlead. He did not understand why it could not travel "through the air" that last quarter of an inch from the broken wire on the twinlead to the antenna terminal on the back of the set, since it had already gone 25 miles through the air...

I did not have a good answer... (or none he would believe)

OTA antenna service calls will get a lot more interesting with digital signals...and people will expect miracles... (Do shops even install outdoor antennas any more? Must be very rare... and I'll bet pretty expensive too)

Joe L.

After a few days of on-again, off-again tinkering, I finally got a lock on WGHP's RF-8 signal last night on my DTT-900 box using a scrounger's set-up of plain-vanilla VHF telescoping rabbit ears and a 14db Radio Shack digital amp. I'm just over the Davidson County line on the north end of High Point (856 ft. above sea level) with trees on both sides of the road to always guarantee interference on something. When I hooked the bowtie to the amp, 8 was bubbling under at 30% (my estimate of Zenith's meter). With the ears, the signal's been sitting steady between 60-65%. Not exactly the peak we were getting on 35, but it's still solid. It was also the exact signal level I was getting from WCCB overnight, which weirded me out for some reason...

By comparison, at the house we're moving into on N. Old Greensboro Road (870 ft. elevation with much more open ground), we got a usable signal on Saturday afternoon with no extra amplifiers or tricks. We just pulled out the ears and off she went.

Here is my reception report, pre and post transition... I'm using an RCA converter box (the Wally-world one) and a Radio Shack indoor/outdoor antenna (radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765) that's really best for UHF only. I'm also located in East Greensboro, just outside city limits.

I had the following before transition:

WFMY, WUNC, WGHP, WXII, WGPX, WCWG, WRDC, WXLV, WMYV, WXLI.

Occasionally I could get WUNL, WRAL, WRAZ and WRAY. WGSR I recently got but is not watchable with this antenna set up yet.

After transition, I lost WGHP (as expected) but gained a better signal on WRAL, WRAZ and for the first time WLFL. WUNC is weaker now but we'll see how it progresses as time goes on. Hopefully WUNL gets pumped up soon as well.

Mark.

can anyone suggest an ota hd receiver that i can buy locally? preferrabley with hdmi but i know that may be asking too much.

Does WUNL (PBS on ch26) have a repeater located somewhere WNW of Statesville? My TV is picking up two sets of 26.1, 26.2, and 26.3. When I aim my antenna NE toward the towers located near Pilot Mtn, I receive a strong signal on one set of 26.x. The other set does not come in at all. Then, when I aim my antenna to the west in the general direction of Blowing Rock and Lenoir, I pick up the other set and the first set is lost.

This western set of 26.x looks to be in the neighborhood of WUNE (PBS on ch17), but I pick up 17.x perfectly. I already get five different WUN* PBS channels, and now I'm getting a second 26! I'm just curious what could be causing this.

Yes, there are several. W35AD in Sparta, W65DT in Boone, and W21CR in Jefferson are the ones that would map to 26-1.

- Trip

The FCC has come out and said that some of the converter boxes don't rescan right. I had heard that the Magnavox's didn't and now I guess there are others and the FCC Call Center has tagged them. Anyway, they are saying do a "Double Rescan". That is where you unplug the antenna from the converter box and do a scan so it clears out all of the channels and then reconnect the antenna and do another scan and that is "suppose" to fix viewers issues.

From what I am hearing, the transition hasn't gone as well as the FCC is making it out. There are serious problems in NYC, Philly, Chicago and LA. ABC is screaming at the FCC to do something. FOX has asked for a HUGE power increase for both of their stations in LA (11 and 13) to go from 13kw to 120kw! I hear that down east, people are having problems with WCTI and WFXI, WTVD in Durham and WSPA in Spartanburg, SC. Majority of the issues are with stations who transitioned to VHF on June 12th. And yes, we too are having issues as well. We are mostly seeing people trying to pick us up on UHF only rabbit ears or DB-4s or similar. I haven't heard if anyone is picking us on a 4228 so if anyone has, let me know.

From what I am hearing, the transition hasn't gone as well as the FCC is making it out. There are serious problems in NYC, Philly, Chicago and LA. ABC is screaming at the FCC to do something. FOX has asked for a HUGE power increase for both of their stations in LA (11 and 13) to go from 13kw to 120kw! I hear that down east, people are having problems with WCTI and WFXI, WTVD in Durham and WSPA in Spartanburg, SC. Majority of the issues are with stations who transitioned to VHF on June 12th. And yes, we too are having issues as well. We are mostly seeing people trying to pick us up on UHF only rabbit ears or DB-4s or similar. I haven't heard if anyone is picking us on a 4228 so if anyone has, let me know.

foxeng, I may have asked this before and I truly don't mean this in negative way, simply out of curiosity: but why on earth would a station elect to stay VHF? I get the differences in the two -- in my amateur's mind I'm thinking in the piedmont and looking at the other stations, UHF would be preferred.

The FCC has come out and said that some of the converter boxes don't rescan right. I had heard that the Magnavox's didn't and now I guess there are others and the FCC Call Center has tagged them. Anyway, they are saying do a "Double Rescan". That is where you unplug the antenna from the converter box and do a scan so it clears out all of the channels and then reconnect the antenna and do another scan and that is "suppose" to fix viewers issues.
Agreed, I have helped quite a few people on the forum with "Double Rescan".

From what I am hearing, the transition hasn't gone as well as the FCC is making it out. There are serious problems in NYC, Philly, Chicago and LA. ABC is screaming at the FCC to do something. FOX has asked for a HUGE power increase for both of their stations in LA (11 and 13) to go from 13kw to 120kw! I hear that down east, people are having problems with WCTI and WFXI, WTVD in Durham and WSPA in Spartanburg, SC. Majority of the issues are with stations who transitioned to VHF on June 12th. And yes, we too are having issues as well. We are mostly seeing people trying to pick us up on UHF only rabbit ears or DB-4s or similar. I haven't heard if anyone is picking us on a 4228 so if anyone has, let me know.
Ya, it is bad with the VHF stations out there, no one has decent VHF antennas anymore and those that don't, cannot under it. Best Buy in St. Paul, MN had/has an employee telling people that KARE-11 and KMSP-9 are off the air, best the antenna that BB has will not get them. Well, my local BB cannot get the local VHF-HI either, because they have a UHF only antenna or strip the VHFs out to insert the in store programming in... This is a mess for sure!

I am simply going to hurry up the progress and get a decent outdoor antenna rigged up rather than that Radioshack thingy I have. I got out an indoor "rabbit ears" type antenna that's definitely for VHF as well as UHF. I've tried the two brands of converter boxes I have (the RCA and Maganvoxes the Wal-Marts were selling) and I have tried all kinds of positions to attempt to get in digital 8. Since 2 is still on the air in analog in "nitelite" mode, I used their analog signal as an idea of how to aim up the antenna, then shortened the telescoping parts a bit. Still nothing.

My best guess at an antenna set up would therefore need to be something like the Terrestrial Digital's DB8 - if VHF 8 still doesn't come in, then add on Antennacraft's Y5-7-13 for hi-vhf.

They are making antenna combos now that do high band VHF and UHF, only thing is, they are biased toward the upper UHF channels, at least the Winegards are, but the VHF performance looks really good from the tests I've seen. The new Channel master one looks like it might be better, but you can't get it right away...

Some of you might have those really huge low band antenna's like the Radio Shack VU-120. What I would do is take a hack saw, and cut off the back end to make it look something like the channel master 2018 below I linked to for high band, and it will look better. Just some thoughts and ideas to maybe help someone save a little $.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CM-2018

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7696P

I am simply going to hurry up the progress and get a decent outdoor antenna rigged up rather than that Radioshack thingy I have. I got out an indoor "rabbit ears" type antenna that's definitely for VHF as well as UHF. I've tried the two brands of converter boxes I have (the RCA and Maganvoxes the Wal-Marts were selling) and I have tried all kinds of positions to attempt to get in digital 8. Since 2 is still on the air in analog in "nitelite" mode, I used their analog signal as an idea of how to aim up the antenna, then shortened the telescoping parts a bit. Still nothing.

My best guess at an antenna set up would therefore need to be something like the Terrestrial Digital's DB8 - if VHF 8 still doesn't come in, then add on Antennacraft's Y5-7-13 for hi-vhf.

Channel 2 analog is a bad test for digital channel 8, since 8 is VHF-HI and 2 is VHF-LO. The bottom idea you had is very good.

hello everyone,

I am a new user. However, I am posting to this forum because the stations I am receiving are from GSO/winston.

Enough said on that.

However, I have been quite happy with the dtv transition. I know there are some problems with VHF frequencies but maybe just a bump up in the allowed power for the stations will help that and making people realize they still need a VHF antenna of some kind.

However, I went from one snowy picture for UNCTV's translater in Boone before friday to now receiving not only 26 through the translator but also WXII, WXLV, and WCWG which were nearly impossible before. What is even more amazing given my mountain location is that I am able to receive these with a simple double bow antenna I rigged from two cheap set top bow tie antennas from RS LOL. Cheap stuff I know but it works! I also have a low noise 14db amplifier. Of course, I live in an apartment so an outdoor antenna is out of the question. Having said that I set my antenna outside to watch TV and it works great. I am surprised for such good reception in the mountains, in a hole, in an apartment, with a small antenna nearly 100 miles from the transmitters (with the exception of the local UNCTV translator anyway). My Zenith converter box registers some signal on some other channels but doesn't lock up on them properly. If I had a better antenna I'd probably get even more. Still I am happy given that I am in probably the worst possible scenario for OTA DTV reception and yet its a huge improvement over what was possible before.

I know that was a long winded post but I thought I'd share my experience with the new DTV.

I am from Martinsville Va and I too lost FOX 8 after the switch to VHF. I am using a UHF only antenna but I did not think my signal would go from 95 before and 0 after transition to VHF. I picked up a cheap combo antenna and connected it to a singnal combiner along with my winegard 9032 antenna with channel master pre amp and still got no singnal. Then I removed the combiner and connected combo antenna alone and still nothing. I will try a better antenna at a later date but for now thankfully I can pickup FOX 27 out of Roanoke but I will miss FOX 8 news which me and my wife love.

To answer some of the questions.

First off, we are working several avenues to improve things. When something comes to fruition, I will share them. At this point, I am not able to. Just about everything is on the table.

Second, when we were owned by FOX, the FOX Labs (yes, there really is one in LA) ran study after study after study on what should each of their O & O's do for digital channels. All the data pointed to us to stay on 8. When we were sold, last year, there was no time for the new company to do anything but stay with what we had going underway. This was not done in a vacuum. Even the FCC data says that our current power replicates our analog coverage. Clearly, it doesn't.

Now, if the FCC gives us a power boost, we have enough transmitter available to pretty much to do what is needed. We did pull one half of the old analog transmitter apart today and move it over to the back up site to use as a back up transmitter there, but if we needed that kind of power (and we are talking high double digit ERP) that it would require the two transmitters put back together, it would take about week and we can do it. In the configuration we are setting up now, we will actually be running about 1/4 what the transmitter is capable of or 1/8 what the two combined together are capable of. That is why we separated them. It isn't good to run it that low and it would cost more money to run it that low that it would be to just run one side a little harder. Remember, we have had years to plan this out. It was the FCC that has thrown the monkey wrench in the works but we will get it worked out, one way or another and I know for a fact the FCC is aware of our particular situation.

As for why don't we just go back to 35? We can't. Our authorization expired 11:59:59 pm June 12th and it requires the FCC to reauthorize it. Now, if it comes to that, in about 1 hour after I receive it, 35 can be back on the air. All we did was turn it off and pull the breakers on it. Nothing else has been done to it. It is just as it was when it was turned off Friday night. But again, we don't have authorization to do that. As far as the FCC is concerned, 35 doesn't exist anymore.

We are working on it daily and all day at that.

As far as VHF/UHF combo antennas, Dow Electronics has a good combo that is only for channels 7-69. It is the HD76 series. We played with a HD7694 a few weeks back and it worked great. It is also MUCH smaller than the conventional 2-69 antennas. I think they made it for attic spaces as well as outside.

Foxeng, you have my sympathies. I am sure it's been a frustrating week dealing with a small, frustrated, loud minority. I hope the FCC and other powers that be allow you to increase power or provide other options for calming down the people who presently can't pick you up.

I did briefly try to pick you up Saturday on my indoor VHF/UHF antenna with no luck, but it's not ideally placed to put it mildly. I haven't had a chance to try different positions/angles yet. Good luck!

As far as VHF/UHF combo antennas, Dow Electronics has a good combo that is only for channels 7-69. It is the HD76 series. We played with a HD7694 a few weeks back and it worked great. It is also MUCH smaller than the conventional 2-69 antennas. I think they made it for attic spaces as well as outside.

Did you happen to get a price from them on this antenna?

I am from Martinsville Va and I too lost FOX 8 after the switch to VHF. I am using a UHF only antenna but I did not think my signal would go from 95 before and 0 after transition to VHF. I picked up a cheap combo antenna and connected it to a singnal combiner along with my winegard 9032 antenna with channel master pre amp and still got no singnal. Then I removed the combiner and connected combo antenna alone and still nothing. I will try a better antenna at a later date but for now thankfully I can pickup FOX 27 out of Roanoke but I will miss FOX 8 news which me and my wife love.I have a regular VHF antenna in the attic that you can have for the asking.

Did you happen to get a price from them on this antenna?

I want to say $75 but I am not sure so don't quote me.

Just so you know, the double rescan where you pull the antenna, scan, reconnect antenna and scan again is working for those people who have the signal. So if you know someone who is having those issues, we would appreciate you passing that along to them.

As I stated above, the coverage issue we are working on as I type.

I too am frustrated with the VHF situation. I have one of the better channel master HD antennas and I used to get a 95% signal. I am 14 miles from the tower. Now I get nothing.

Is there anyone we can complain to at Fox 8 or the FCC...etc...that would help with this process.

To answer some of the questions.

First off, we are working several avenues to improve things. When something comes to fruition, I will share them. At this point, I am not able to. Just about everything is on the table.

Second, when we were owned by FOX, the FOX Labs (yes, there really is one in LA) ran study after study after study on what should each of their O & O's do for digital channels. All the data pointed to us to stay on 8. When we were sold, last year, there was no time for the new company to do anything but stay with what we had going underway. This was not done in a vacuum. Even the FCC data says that our current power replicates our analog coverage. Clearly, it doesn't.

Now, if the FCC gives us a power boost, we have enough transmitter available to pretty much to do what is needed. We did pull one half of the old analog transmitter apart today and move it over to the back up site to use as a back up transmitter there, but if we needed that kind of power (and we are talking high double digit ERP) that it would require the two transmitters put back together, it would take about week and we can do it. In the configuration we are setting up now, we will actually be running about 1/4 what the transmitter is capable of or 1/8 what the two combined together are capable of. That is why we separated them. It isn't good to run it that low and it would cost more money to run it that low that it would be to just run one side a little harder. Remember, we have had years to plan this out. It was the FCC that has thrown the monkey wrench in the works but we will get it worked out, one way or another and I know for a fact the FCC is aware of our particular situation.

As for why don't we just go back to 35? We can't. Our authorization expired 11:59:59 pm June 12th and it requires the FCC to reauthorize it. Now, if it comes to that, in about 1 hour after I receive it, 35 can be back on the air. All we did was turn it off and pull the breakers on it. Nothing else has been done to it. It is just as it was when it was turned off Friday night. But again, we don't have authorization to do that. As far as the FCC is concerned, 35 doesn't exist anymore.

We are working on it daily and all day at that.

Oh my what a mess you have there. And I thought we had major reception issues here. As you may know, Charlie Rhodes, an RF expert who writes for TV Technology has been on top of the VHF power density issue for several years now. He has written several good articles on this topic in the recent past. He is a big advocate of a power increase for all of the VHF Broadcasters to try and solve the VHF power density crisis.

We will have the same issues here when WSET goes back to channel 13, but that frequency seems to work OK with some of the newer UHF designs such as the Clear Stream series antennas that use a backplane reflector grid design, and I am sure you are aware of the local PBS fiasco on channel 3 here in Roanoke.

My best guess at an antenna set up would therefore need to be something like the Terrestrial Digital's DB8 - if VHF 8 still doesn't come in, then add on Antennacraft's Y5-7-13 for hi-vhf.

The Y5 is what I set up months ago in my attic in Walkertown and get about 6 bars out of 10 on signal strength on FOX 8. ( before the transition I got 10 bars)

I use a UVSJ to combine the VHF with my UHF (4221HD) to provide one feed for the TV.

I use a winegard 4400 and I get the Level cross stations on the front side and the Sauratown Mt. stations on the back. As of Friday I lost Fox 8 and no manner of tweeking the antenna gets a sniff of a signal. If I really want Fox 8 badly I will get some type of VHF combo I suppose. In the meantime, Fox 18 out of Charlotte comes in better than before, I can watch it for Fox programming. I will miss the 10:00 news at times though.

I say again,

Just so you know, the double rescan where you pull the antenna, scan, reconnect antenna and scan again is working for those people who have the signal. So if you know someone who is having those issues, we would appreciate you passing that along to them.

The issue is MANY converter boxes and TVs DO NOT CLEAR OUT the old data when a station changes channels, as it is suppose to. If you do the double rescan, as outlined above, IT DOES WORK. When people call the station, we are having them do that and it is working. As I said, as for the power issue, we are working on that as hard as we can.

Just to give you some sense of the situation that is NOT unique to the Triad, this for the number 2 market in the country, Los Angeles where BIG money is being lost:

Digital Transition Notes
Digital TV still elusive for some oderate
Viewers who thought they were prepared for the transition find glitches with antennas.
By Alex Pham, Los Angeles Times, June 17, 2009

By most accounts, the nation's transition to an all-digital television broadcast last week went smoothly -- except for people like David Zentz and Glenn Englebrecht.

Zentz, a 30-year-old photographer in Venice, found that he had lost reception for ABC, CBS and Fox when he tried to tune in this weekend to catch the Lakers game.

Englebrecht, who watches local news, lost seven out of nine broadcast channels.

"It's either spend a couple of thousand dollars on all new equipment or live with very poor quality TV viewing," said the 54-year-old insurance salesman from Rowland Heights, who tried everything short of climbing on top of his apartment building to adjust the rooftop antenna.

Zentz and Englebrecht were among tens of thousands of Americans who lost channels or received choppy video after 971 TV stations on Friday shut off their analog signals and migrated entirely to digital broadcasts.

A digital-TV help line -- (888) 225-5322 -- run by the Federal Communications Commission fielded 18,500 calls from Los Angeles -- 0.3% of the city's 5.7 million TV-viewing households.

Broadcasters hailed the transition as a success.

"Millions of households are enjoying dramatically better pictures and sounds," said Jonathan Collegio, vice president of the National Assn. of Broadcasters.

But that wasn't the case for Wally Grotophorst in Hamilton, Va., who got a digital antenna for his digital TV last year. On Friday he lost two stations, ABC and CBS, even though he could pick them up digitally before the transition.

That's because those stations, like dozens of others, switched the frequency of their digital signals from the UHF band to the VHF band Friday.

Grotophorst's antenna, like many others sold as "digital" in the last few years, was designed only for UHF stations. Some TV antennas can receive both UHF and VHF signals. Those models include indoor versions that have extendable poles -- "rabbit ears" -- for VHF signals and a loop for UHF.

The FCC has been advising viewers experiencing trouble to have their converter boxes rescan the airwaves for digital TV signals that moved to new frequencies last week.

For those not helped by that, the FCC put out an advisory Monday on its website, www.dtv.gov "> www.dtv.gov , recommending "double rescanning": disconnecting the antenna from the TV, rescanning, unplugging the converter box for a couple of minutes, turning the converter box back on, reconnecting the antenna and scanning one more time.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dtv17-2009jun17,0,3973337.story

For those not helped by that, the FCC put out an advisory Monday on its website, www.dtv.gov "> www.dtv.gov , recommending "double rescanning": disconnecting the antenna from the TV, rescanning, unplugging the converter box for a couple of minutes, turning the converter box back on, reconnecting the antenna and scanning one more time.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dtv17-2009jun17,0,3973337.story
That is a pretty poor description of how to do the "double re-scan"

Removing the antenna (cable) from the TV will do nothing for those with a converter box. Disconnecting the antenna from the converter box, rescanning, then power cycling and re-connecting the antenna to the converter box will work much better.

I looked on dtv.gov, fortunately, its description of the double-rescan was worded better. It was not described however if you went through their interactive troubleshooting procedure.

I'm wondering, have any of the new TVs out there with ATSC tuners refuse to work properly in the complete absence of old analog stations? (We may not yet know with analog nightlight stations still on the air)

Joe L.

I still have one nightlight station, and I do a TON of inhouse distribution (5 different analog channels distributing various DVRs). I can let you know what happens when the last analog goes off, but all my inhouse probably won't tell you much.

For anyone who cares. The NAVIGATOR guide will launch in Greensboro and the Triad mid to late July. This information came from Time Warner today.

anyone have hd tuner/reciever they can part with? i need one for an older tv without a built in one.

As promised I said I would let you know something as soon as I could. We have in the building a FCC representative now and I hope to have some more news either today or tomorrow. The FCC is VERY aware of our issues here and are working with us to resolve them as quickly as possible.

Two FCC field engineers will also be in the area tomorrow taking readings to figure out what the heck is going on.

The FCC representative will be on air live at 5:30 today and we have taped segments for the other newscasts.

I hope the FCC people are supposed to talk to WTVD over here as well...

Here is an update. We have filed with the FCC to allow us to temporarily go back to channel 35 until this whole VHF thing can be figured out. We hope they will act on it quickly.

Here is an update. We have filed with the FCC to allow us to temporarily go back to channel 35 until this whole VHF thing can be figured out. We hope they will act on it quickly.

Now if that won't confuse granny nothing will! :D

now if that won't confuse granny nothing will! :d

rotlao

Now if that won't confuse granny nothing will! :D

We ain't giving up 8 yet. WOLO still has to deal with us.! :)

Never been at a station when "The Man" was there. Of course this guy wasn't field engineer but 2 will be in town tomorrow looking around.

WOLO still has to deal with us.! :)

Yea, in that respect we're in this together old buddy..Now if you would be so generous as to give up that Ch-8 maybe we wouldn't have to run the transmitter at ~1/2 power!

BTW... just for fun today.. went out to the WCCB transmitter..hooked up a Zenith 901 to a reverse port on the WCCB Antenna..:eek:..Got most (But NOT ALL!) of the Charlotte locals.. and a booming signal on WCWG.. :)

BTW, when you coming down? Ross needs to give you a paid day for job enrichment...

Yea, in that respect we're in this together old buddy..Now if you would be so generous as to give up that Ch-8 maybe we wouldn't have to run the transmitter at ~1/2 power!

BTW... just for fun today.. went out to the WCCB transmitter..hooked up a Zenith 901 to a reverse port on the WCCB Antenna..:eek:..Got most (But NOT ALL!) of the Charlotte locals.. and a booming signal on WCWG.. :)

BTW, when you coming down? Ross needs to give you a paid day for job enrichment...

Not until I get this "mess" cleaned up. :D I still have two more channel 8 transmitters to get up on digital!

Hello, all...

Many thanks for the info regarding the "double scan". Following the transition, I could barely get a signal from Fox 8, residing in the northern Davidson Co./Wallburg area.

Well, following the directions, I now have about 55-60% signal strength on my Zenith 901, using an amp'd RCA ANT200B VHF/UHF set-top antenna. Whereas for the past few days, I've only had about 15-20%, and it was unwatchable.

IDK if it's due to better atmospheric conditions this evening or not (here's to hoping it's not), but I'm glad to get my Fox 8 fix back on. I'm going to try this on my un-amp'd bedroom set-up later this evening.

: D


BTW...I love all these digital channels. SOOOOO much better than the old analog set-up.

Foxeng, thanks for what you do on this forum. Plus you did something very valuable as far as I'm concerned: pointed out the presence of an actual TV antenna retailer in Greensboro - Dow Electronics don't exactly advertise themselves that widely around. I'm still more used to the OTA world of UK transmission, in a UHF-only world and all broadcasters co-located at one site, and OTA being the dominant means of TV delivery.

We are awaiting approval to turn 35 back on and we *HOPE* we get that today. It will only be a temporary authorization, but we do plan on running both channel 8 and 35 to try and make life a little easier on people who have already scanned 8 and have it and those who don't can get 35. The 35 transmitter is literally in stand by right now. I turned it back on yesterday afternoon to get it ready to go back on the air at a moments notice when the STA is approved. Filaments are on, beam is up, all it needs a little RF and we are back on 35. After we hear what the FCC finds over the next few days, that will determine what our next move is.

We had Mr Matthew Modine, the SE Director of the DTV Transition Team of the FCC in house yesterday to look at what is happening here. He stated that WGHP and WTVD in Durham are on the VERY top of their issues list in their daily transition update meetings the FCC has. (I think he is to be at WTVD today.) He stated to us, the FCC has no idea why we are having the issues we are. They are stumped. When point blank asked what was causing the problems, he said "We don't know. That is why we are here. To find out and fix it."

The FCC acknowledges some of the problems are double rescan and that procedure is helping some people and we are seeing the positive response from it; UHF only antennas, and that is an issue all to itself; but why people well within the contour lost signal who have double scanned and have VHF antennas, that they don't know. That is the part that has them stumped and why two field engineers are in town today to do field strength measurements and to go to some homes to see the problem first hand. The FCC is taking a VERY PROACTIVE stance here to help us.

Just to let you know. More when I know.

My experience has been that over the last couple of days I've had a lot less trouble getting 8. At the moment 8 went live I initially I got 8 okay but in the days later I started having more trouble. So whatever you've done recently has been helpful. My setup is I have a Radio Shack UHF-75 antenna that is shaped like an arrow (maybe that's a yagi style antenna, I'm not sure). I live near the Palladium theater in High Point and the antenna is in the attic of my 2 story house.

Also I saw a commercial last night on channel 20 that said that they have a new music video sub channel 20.2. I checked and D* hasn't added to their list of OTA locals channels for our market so my HD DVRs don't get it yet. But anybody who can do channel scans, like D*'s H20 HD receiver should be able to get it.

Hey FarmTruk! That isn't you for the old MYFOXWGHP blogs is it?

Also I saw a commercial last night on channel 20 that said that they have a new music video sub channel 20.2. I checked and D* hasn't added to their list of OTA locals channels for our market so my HD DVRs don't get it yet. But anybody who can do channel scans, like D*'s H20 HD receiver should be able to get it.

Hope you like hip hop. That is the only thing on it.

Hey FarmTruk! That isn't you for the old MYFOXWGHP blogs is it?

You have an excellent memory, sir!!!

Yes, it is I. :D

Sadly, I've not had as much free time to post on the MYFOX blogs in the past few months, but I still lurk around a bit over there.


And to update, the dbl scan helped quite a bit with FOX8 reception on my un-amped bedroom set, but it's still dropping the signal some. However, the antenna I have in there is only about a 1/2 step up from a clothes hanger duck taped to the back of my converter box. :p

I guess I just need to step up and get a decent outdoor antenna, mounted to my chimney, and split it to my 4 tvs throughout the house...

...
It will only be a temporary authorization, but we do plan on running both channel 8 and 35 to try and make life a little easier on people who have already scanned 8 and have it and those who don't can get 35.
...
Same virtual channel #?

Same virtual channel #?I know I'll receive both RF signals if they both are transmitting on the same time... I have no idea what the converter box will do with two stations on virtual 8-1.

Should be interesting...

Good luck in getting this resolved foxeng. Nobody wants to see you unhappy, or any of your viewers.

Joe L.

I know I'll receive both RF signals if they both are transmitting on the same time... I have no idea what the converter box will do with two stations on virtual 8-1. Joe L.

No problem.. the box will show 2 channel 8-1's.. you just have to know that the first one displayed is channel 8 and the second one is channel 35.

Figured I'd write my experiences if for nothing other than reference. I recently moved and was using OTA only until TWC could come out. I moved to a 2nd story apartment with an E-W orientation, with the long outside wall facing north located near elm and pisgah church in Greensboro. Antenna was an older (looks late 80's or early 90's) amplified UHF/VHF combo made by Jensen. Had it plugged directly into a Vizio with a digital tuner and was unable to get Fox 8 no matter what I did with the dipoles or the amplification level. Also was unable to receive 26. The large trees outside both of my exterior walls probably don't help the reception either. Got TWC now, but would like to be able to get Fox OTA come NFL season.

We are awaiting approval to turn 35 back on and we *HOPE* we get that today. It will only be a temporary authorization, but we do plan on running both channel 8 and 35 to try and make life a little easier on people who have already scanned 8 and have it and those who don't can get 35. The 35 transmitter is literally in stand by right now. I turned it back on yesterday afternoon to get it ready to go back on the air at a moments notice when the STA is approved. Filaments are on, beam is up, all it needs a little RF and we are back on 35. After we hear what the FCC finds over the next few days, that will determine what our next move is.

We had Mr Matthew Modine, the SE Director of the DTV Transition Team of the FCC in house yesterday to look at what is happening here. He stated that WGHP and WTVD in Durham are on the VERY top of their issues list in their daily transition update meetings the FCC has. (I think he is to be at WTVD today.) He stated to us, the FCC has no idea why we are having the issues we are. They are stumped. When point blank asked what was causing the problems, he said "We don't know. That is why we are here. To find out and fix it."

The FCC acknowledges some of the problems are double rescan and that procedure is helping some people and we are seeing the positive response from it; UHF only antennas, and that is an issue all to itself; but why people well within the contour lost signal who have double scanned and have VHF antennas, that they don't know. That is the part that has them stumped and why two field engineers are in town today to do field strength measurements and to go to some homes to see the problem first hand. The FCC is taking a VERY PROACTIVE stance here to help us.

Just to let you know. More when I know.

Sorry, but I do have to respectfully do this - you still want to stand by your postion that the Upper VHF channels are the "beach front" top priced real estate that everyone wants?

As noted many years ago, many Companies wanted out of all the VHF and I couldn't understand why you were fighting to keep yours - right now the amount saved on electricity is a very foolish reason, imho.

Just my 2 cents.

Sorry, but I do have to respectfully do this - you still want to stand by your postion that the Upper VHF channels are the "beach front" top priced real estate that everyone wants?

Let us figure out why the data doesn't match the results first before you get on a soap box. And for the record, there are other companies, LARGE companies such as FOX, ABC and CBS who have VHF High stations on in digital with the same issue. ALL of them can't be stupid. And it is a much larger reason for staying than just power bill. Contrary to popular belief, this decision wasn't made in a vacuum.

And if the whole purpose of your post is to incite something, move along. Nothing to see here. I don't have time to deal with such pettiness.

Let us figure out why the data doesn't match the results first before you get on a soap box. And for the record, there are other companies, LARGE companies such as FOX, ABC and CBS who have VHF High stations on in digital with the same issue. ALL of them can't be stupid. And it is a much larger reason for staying than just power bill. Contrary to popular belief, this decision wasn't made in a vacuum.

And if the whole purpose of your post is to incite something, move along. Nothing to see here. I don't have time to deal with such pettiness.

I am pleased with our decision in New Bern NC to go back to VHF 12 from UHF 48 we have had very few problems with reception less then 40 calls on Sat and most were fixed with a rescan. So V's are not a problem everywhere not sure what is different but I'm sure it will be figured out.

Ken

We are still waiting on the FCC to issue the STA for channel 35. We hope to have it today. Also will meet with the FCC again today to see what they have found out so far and to see what our next move is.

And yes to answer an earlier question, the converters will have 2 channel 8-1's (first RF 8, second RF 35) if you rescan. We will start out by telling people if you are receiving us via RF 8 do not rescan. No reason to. You got us, you got us. If you can't get us, then rescan for RF 35. The cablecos and sat will continue to pick us up via RF 8 and interesting enough, so far we haven't heard of any cableco or sat having reception issues with our RF 8. As a matter of fact, during the storms the other night, I didn't have any breakup during the lightning while watching RF 8.

I am pleased with our decision in New Bern NC to go back to VHF 12 from UHF 48 we have had very few problems with reception less then 40 calls on Sat and most were fixed with a rescan. So V's are not a problem everywhere not sure what is different but I'm sure it will be figured out.

Ken

What is your power Ken?

What is your power Ken?

Our power is 32.8kw we are at 2000' I'm using an old RCA TCL-16A12 that has circular polarization. I did a little test the other night with a set of rabbit ears the kind that come with portable tv's. I hooked them up to my computer that has a haupage card in it. My snr was 30 at full transmitter power of 4.6kw I then reduced power down to aprox 800 wats my snr dropped to 26 this was at 3 am. I live about 20 miles from the transmitter. On friday when I was converting to digital I developed a short in a bullet going into my mask filter. A watt meter on the output of the mask filter showed 4.5 watt yet I was still hitting the cable headend in New Bern and could still pick us up in the studio about 16 miles away.

Ken

That is part of the problem. We only got 11.5 kw and according to Longley-Rice, that will match our 316kw analog. It doesn't. I fully believe we can increase power quite a bit without causing additional interference since we aren't making our predicted coverage area now. People at 30 miles are having reception issues in digital where they had good analog reception and had it for 47 years.

We are using our aux antenna which is our original 1963 RCA TW-8-18 traveling wave that we used from 1963 to 2006 so its coverage is WELL documented. Next week we hope to complete the conversion of the main transmitter to digital and then we will fire back up our Dielectric TW-12B-8 traveling wave we have been using since 2006, but again only at 11.5 kw. We can generate up to 40 kw ERP off that antenna/transmitter, if the FCC would allow that.

We have looked at the signal off the TW-18-8 and the waveform looks better than the UHF stations in the area so it isn't a distorted waveform off the antenna. We are finding that if the receiver sees a signal, it decodes it and holds it. But there are lots of places within 30 miles there is no signal and then beyond the signal just seems to completely disappear. The FCC is as stumped as we are. WTVD is having the same issues as well. I think they got 13 kw if memory serves. We have a meeting with the FCC this morning so hopefully the 2 Field Engineers who have done some field measurements may have some answers.

The FCC and you guys are finally seeing what I've been seeing. In some places, VHF works fine. In other places, it's an utter nightmare. I can't find a pattern to it, and I'm glad the FCC is stumped by it because I am too.

KMBC in Kansas City had 85 kW on channel 7, a lot more power than anyone on this side of the country, and gave it up for 1000 kW on channel 29 because a lot of people had trouble with even the 85 kW signal. They had a permit to go back to channel 9 at 115 kW but decided to just give it up.

- Trip

Sorry, but I do have to respectfully do this - you still want to stand by your postion that the Upper VHF channels are the "beach front" top priced real estate that everyone wants?

As noted many years ago, many Companies wanted out of all the VHF and I couldn't understand why you were fighting to keep yours - right now the amount saved on electricity is a very foolish reason, imho.

Just my 2 cents.

It is way too early to make a suggestion that VHF is not a desirable place to be. I have two VHF's, and I can tell you they work very well at 25 and 41 miles from the tower with a UHF antenna. This is still very new technology and it will take some further research to make a definitive call as to how much power will be necessary to equal the competitors with UHF. I have seen stations on UHF have plenty of problems, especially out of Wilmington. Everyone has problems, that is just Murphy's law. The solutions come, it doesn't happen overnight, and making antagonizing comments does not help anybody.

Well, it was very strange to be welcoming the FCC Inspectors in the front door, but it happened! Anyway, they took a lot of measurements, wrote down a lot information and looked at antennas we had gotten to to help viewers with problems. They still don't know what is happening but admit, something is not right with the VHF allocations. They just don't know what. They have been to peoples homes and seen it first hand. Took their equipment and checked and confirmed what people are seeing.

Many issues are the fact that people bought UHF only antennas thinking they were buying VHF/UHF. Some antennas don't work at all. That is a manufacturing/marketing issue. Some is the double scanning issue. And the rest is power. So they are taking all this back to DC to put it in with the rest of the stuff and we may see them back next week as the mystery continues.

Maybe the FCC field people should also visit the area served by Ken12's station and attempt to determine why it's working well. Perhaps it's the circular polarization?

This debacle must be total frustration to those responsible for providing a quality product. What can you fix when everything controllable from your end of the circuit is properly adjusted and operating in accordance with FCC parameters?

--- CHAS

Not to offend but it seems no one in here cares about the latest HD or Navigator news so in the future any that do care check the NAVIGATOr thread. That is where I will post in the future. Last time I checked this was a HD thread but I guess no more. Not trying to ruffle any feathers but we have moved away from what the thread was intended for.

I'm listening - I read, but don't always comment.

(I guess now I'm commenting!)
:D

At 3:40pm WGHP resumed broadcasting on channel 35. We are now broadcasting on both 8 and 35 digital. If you are on cable or satellite you don't need to do anything. If you are receiving us on channel 8, then you don't need to do anything. If you are not receiving us on channel 8, then rescan for channel 35.

We have authority for 6 months to operate on channel 35. We hope to have the channel 8 issues resolved by then.

At 3:40pm WGHP resumed broadcasting on channel 35. We are now broadcasting on both 8 and 35 digital. If you are on cable or satellite you don't need to do anything. If you are receiving us on channel 8, then you don't need to do anything. If you are not receiving us on channel 8, then rescan for channel 35.

We have authority for 6 months to operate on channel 35. We hope to have the channel 8 issues resolved by then.

Here's to hope and at least you have some "in the meantime" help.

Here's to hope and at least you have some "in the meantime" help.

We are lucky we had a channel to go back to. WTVD doesn't. Wishing the best for those guys. They have it tougher than us at this point.

WLXI was 61.1 now it shows as 43.1, is it OK to change branding to show RF channel after the transition? Sure makes sense to me.

Not to offend but it seems no one in here cares about the latest HD or Navigator news so in the future any that do care check the NAVIGATOr thread. That is where I will post in the future. Last time I checked this was a HD thread but I guess no more. Not trying to ruffle any feathers but we have moved away from what the thread was intended for.Personally, I think you are over-reacting.

Yes, we are interested in what TWC will do in the triad area in coming months... but the currently interesting topic involving HDTV is OTA, and not cable. Once Navigator is in place, we'll all be reporting on how well/no-so-well it suits our needs in this thread. We'll be able to discuss how well the local TWC head-end implemented it. Until then, you already said it is coming in mid-July. Now you're complaining since nobody made a responding comment. Do you have more detail?

Do you know exactly the features they will impliment? or the exact version? with the bugs we should expect? Or how we can prepare for the transition? In other words, do we need to watch all we have recorded, or lose those shows on the DVR? Or will we be OK as is?

If you have no input that we need to react to now, I'd say get a set-top-box, provide a report to assist as the engineers try to figure out why the simulations and predicted coverage is not as expected. Join in the topic currently being discussed concerning OTA reception in the local area.

This digital transition is HD related...(or at least most of the local channels are HD) and the issues facing foxeng are important.... to them and to us who watch it OTA. It is certainly "reception" related.... seems to fit this thread's title pretty well to me.

Thinking about it, TWC Navigator is not HD related...(a lot more of TWC is SD than HD) The thread title is "Local HDTV Info and Reception > Greensboro, NC HDTV"

Do you think that might be why Navigator has its own thread? ;) (not to offend either)

Joe L.

I agree with J.L. The trouble people are having receiving a Local HD channel seems 100% on topic to this thread. Not everybody in this market has satellite or cable. And some like me, like to receive the channel via OTA despite having a TV provider.

WLXI was 61.1 now it shows as 43.1, is it OK to change branding to show RF channel after the transition? Sure makes sense to me.

Only if the FCC approves it.

Not to offend but it seems no one in here cares about the latest HD or Navigator news so in the future any that do care check the NAVIGATOr thread.

Isn't that where the Navigator news *should* be? I don't have TWC so couldn't care less about Navigator :)

Since this is in the Local HDTV and Reception area, seems the latest discussion, particularly b/c of the DTV switch, is 100% right on.

WLXI was 61.1 now it shows as 43.1, is it OK to change branding to show RF channel after the transition? Sure makes sense to me.

This was supposed to happen on the 12'th but there was some type of file download problem with the unit that updates the psip. Got it corrected today. Corporate guys made the decision to brand as 43-1 (fine with me). I also asked about the FCC approval and was told that was taken care of.

Personally, I think you are over-reacting.

Yes, we are interested in what TWC will do in the triad area in coming months... but the currently interesting topic involving HDTV is OTA, and not cable. Once Navigator is in place, we'll all be reporting on how well/no-so-well it suits our needs in this thread. We'll be able to discuss how well the local TWC head-end implemented it. Until then, you already said it is coming in mid-July. Now you're complaining since nobody made a responding comment. Do you have more detail?

Do you know exactly the features they will impliment? or the exact version? with the bugs we should expect? Or how we can prepare for the transition? In other words, do we need to watch all we have recorded, or lose those shows on the DVR? Or will we be OK as is?

If you have no input that we need to react to now, I'd say get a set-top-box, provide a report to assist as the engineers try to figure out why the simulations and predicted coverage is not as expected. Join in the topic currently being discussed concerning OTA reception in the local area.

This digital transition is HD related...(or at least most of the local channels are HD) and the issues facing foxeng are important.... to them and to us who watch it OTA. It is certainly "reception" related.... seems to fit this thread's title pretty well to me.

Thinking about it, TWC Navigator is not HD related...(a lot more of TWC is SD than HD) The thread title is "Local HDTV Info and Reception > Greensboro, NC HDTV"

Do you think that might be why Navigator has its own thread? ;) (not to offend either)

Joe L.

Check the NAVIGATOR thread for more detail. I doubt I will be posting much more here. Yes I do have more detail.

OK guys. I need some help here.

We did an experiment tonight at the transmitter trying to figure out what is happening on channel 8. Using a WinTV USB receiver and a single whip antenna, the WinTV USB would not decode at all. Not a whiff. We put in line a FM Trap that traps out the FM band (FM is one half of most of the VHF high TV band) and the signal increased and decoded perfectly! We are going to do more experimenting next week at the studio.

If you have a preamp it may have a FM trap on it. If it does, please turn it on and see if the reception on channel 8 is better than without it. If you have a FM trap, please put it in line at your receiver or before the amplifier if you can and see if the reception improves. Radio Shack used to sell FM traps for $5 but I don't see it on their website. Electronic Distributors in Winston-Salem should have them and in Greensboro Electronix of NC and Dow Electronics should also have them.

Analog TVs used to have FM traps on them. Converter boxes are not required to have them and from what I can find out, none do. This doesn't solve the no signal issue, but for those with signal and the signal breaks up, instead of more amplifier, try less with a FM trap or add a FM trap. It may surprise you. It did us!

Thanks Foxeng for turning channel 35 back on. I tryed to get 8 but I wasn't successful. I'm in Eden ,46 miles from your broadcast. On my CM 4228 I was getting signals in the 70% on ch 35 and the switch to 8 the meter on my digital stream converter box would only read 0 thru 3% on RF 8. Reading on hdtvprimer the 4228 is supposed to have some success on vhf-high, but no luck here. Also I tryed a set of phillps vhf rabbit ears and the best reading I could get was 9% , usally it takes a signal of around 30% to get a picture. Staying at ch. 35 would be my vote but hey, do what ya gotta do. LOL

p.s. Thanks Foxeng for keeping everyone updated on what's going on.

Wow atmospheric conditions must be good tonight, I'm picking up WCCB out of Charlotte , TV Fool tells me I'm 99 miles away from their broadcast. They are on ch. 27 , give them a try if your still up.

OK guys. I need some help here.

We did an experiment tonight at the transmitter trying to figure out what is happening on channel 8. Using a WinTV USB receiver and a single whip antenna, the WinTV USB would not decode at all. Not a whiff. We put in line a FM Trap that traps out the FM band (FM is one half of most of the VHF high TV band) and the signal increased and decoded perfectly! We are going to do more experimenting next week at the studio.

If you have a preamp it may have a FM trap on it. If it does, please turn it on and see if the reception on channel 8 is better than without it. If you have a FM trap, please put it in line at your receiver or before the amplifier if you can and see if the reception improves. Radio Shack used to sell FM traps for $5 but I don't see it on their website. Electronic Distributors in Winston-Salem should have them and in Greensboro Electronix of NC and Dow Electronics should also have them.

Analog TVs used to have FM traps on them. Converter boxes are not required to have them and from what I can find out, none do. This doesn't solve the no signal issue, but for those with signal and the signal breaks up, instead of more amplifier, try less with a FM trap or add a FM trap. It may surprise you. It did us!Since you were at the transmitter site, with 2 strong signals, is it possible the FM-Trap was just acting as an attenuator?

Perhaps try another experiment with an attenuator in-line? I'm guessing the channel 8 RF might be overloading the front-end of the WinTV USB tuner.
Obviously it is not the answer for those in your outlying coverage areas, they might have a local FM station causing their problems, but it might explain what you are seeing at the transmitter.

As far as RF 35, vs. RF 8. Figured you might like a signal report:
On a 20+ year old full size outdoor VHF/UHF antenna, pointing roughly southwest from my home in NW Guilford County... connected to a 2 set splitter, and then to two different ATSC tuners. (One in a HDTV, the other in a set-top LG LST-3510A HDTV tuner) Both tuners easily added the second 8-1 to their virtual channel line-up. Both see roughly the same signal strength on RF 8 as RF 35 on their signal meters.

On the Coupon Eligible Converter box in the spare room, with the indoor set-top $4.00 vhf/uhf combo antenna, I did an "EZ-ADD" (which did a complete scan and added the new RF 35 to the existing channels, as a second 8-1 in the channel line-up, leaving the existing channels)

The indoor vhf/uhf set-top antenna/converter ALSO sees the same signal strength on both RF channels (based on the set-top-box signal meter), and both are received equally well. The "rabbit ears/loop" are oriented parallel to a south-facing wall.

Should be interesting to see what signal strength you experience at your house (if you ever get to go home these days) with the two different RF channels... since you live in the NW part of Greensboro too.

Joe L.

Foxeng, do you know if D* went back to 35 or are they still giving 8 to those of us doing OTA thru the HR2x boxes?

Foxeng, do you know if D* went back to 35 or are they still giving 8 to those of us doing OTA thru the HR2x boxes?

We have not contacted any of the providers on purpose. They all should still be receiving ch 8. At this time, we are still steering people to work with the ch 8 signal because at this point there is no guarantee the FCC will allow us back to 35 permanently. There is an interference issue with 35 now post transition that was not there pre-transition and required us to get permission from the interfered with station before we could turn 35 back on. This is why it took several days to get 35 going again. The interfered station was willing to give us a waiver for the normal duration of a STA, which is 6 months and we are grateful for that. They plainly stated that anything beyond that would require talks between our people and their people. That situation is still fluid and probably will be for some time. If it becomes too much of an issue, we may have to have them just change the EPG data for 35 while keep on receiving 8 for the sat signal.

This was supposed to happen on the 12'th but there was some type of file download problem with the unit that updates the psip. Got it corrected today. Corporate guys made the decision to brand as 43-1 (fine with me). I also asked about the FCC approval and was told that was taken care of.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Zane.

This just makes sense. Some of the problems that ppl are having is the wrong antenna. If you have a station that brands itself as channel 2 or 3, then you would expect to use a low VHF antenna. However, in this case we know that WFMY is 50 (I think) and WBTV is 23. Which require a UHF antenna.

The FCC should consider cleaning up the confusion caused by incorrect branding that typically implied a stations frequency allocation.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Zane.

This just makes sense. Some of the problems that ppl are having is the wrong antenna. If you have a station that brands itself as channel 2 or 3, then you would expect to use a low VHF antenna. However, in this case we know that WFMY is 50 (I think) and WBTV is 23. Which require a UHF antenna.

The FCC should consider cleaning up the confusion caused by incorrect branding that typically implied a stations frequency allocation.

I thought this "branding" issue (upon entering the DTV age) was one of the reasons -- cable channel location being one of them -- many stations jumped on the band wagon several years ago to drop the channel number from their slogans. Examples: "Fox Charlotte" used to be "Fox18"; "Fox Carolina" used to be "Fox 21" in Greenville, SC; and WGCL (Ch 46) in Atlanta was "CBS Atlanta" at some point and maybe still is. This "branding" and tuners "mapping" to the familiar channel just makes it confusing for the masses, in regard to purchasing the correct receiving equipment. We -- on this board -- understand this, but even I would like the simplicity of disregarding this "mapping" and just display the RF channel next to the callsign. Or why could it not work like the RDS feed for FM stations? Display the RF channel FIRST, followed by the callsign, then at the station's option populate a character-limited space between quotation marks with the station's slogan on the on-screen banner. Something like this for "Fox Charlotte":

27-01 WCCB-DT "Fox Charlotte"
27-02 WCCB-SD
27-03 WCCB-WX "FoxScan Weather Radar"

To change gears somewhat. While all the work with the FCC and the STA for channel 35 was going on, work was continuing to get the main channel 8 transmitter converted to digital since channel 8 is our licensed channel. Here are some pictures that might be of interest.

Here is a picture taken of the analog channel 8 transmitter at 8:50pm June 12th, 2009.
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/June122009analog.JPG

Here is the analog transmitter that has been taken apart and repositioned for digital channel 8 in the main room waiting to be converted to digital. (as analog it would do 22kw and as digital max power is 4kw)
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/D8conversionCourthouse.JPG

And here is the other half at the backup site awaiting to be converted to digital. The transmitter that is currently on the air is just out of the picture left.
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/P6160053web.JPG

And here is the current channel 8 digital transmitter on the air.
http://www.w4cl.net/fox/P1260001web.JPG

Hard to believe just a week ago both halves were operating together as an analog transmitter at 32kw.

This "branding" and tuners "mapping" to the familiar channel just makes it confusing for the masses, in regard to purchasing the correct receiving equipment. We -- on this board -- understand this, but even I would like the simplicity of disregarding this "mapping" and just display the RF channel next to the callsign.


Not only is the confusing, it is inaccurate. The RF channel is the station's channel. WXII, for example, gave up being channel 12 when they converted to DTV 31. If they don't like being WXII 31, then perhaps along the lines of your idea, Triad NBC.

There's only so much rebranding you can do.

After all, WXXXI and WXLIII are not allowable call letters.... ;)

Btw, foxeng, is the current channel 8 ERP? FCC TV Query shows a CP for 11.5 and a CP MOD for 18.75? Are you already at the higher power?

Btw, foxeng, is the current channel 8 ERP? FCC TV Query shows a CP for 11.5 and a CP MOD for 18.75? Are you already at the higher power?

No. We are at 11.5kw We are not convinced 18.75 will do any better at this point.

No. We are at 11.5kw We are not convinced 18.75 will do any better at this point.

Yes. That's only 2.1 dB. If we assume the 'digital cliff' is 2.5 - 3.0 db, that power increase will only help those on the threshold of lock seeing checkerboard breakups. Even then, the increase wouldn't provide any design margin for signal fading.

--- CHAS