Did anyone catch the Panthers game in widescreen on WGHP-DT 35 or TW channel 510?

If so how did it look? (I know it wasn't HD, but still interested)

I saw it OTA and it looked pretty good for 480i 16:9 upconverted to 720p. It did get hard to see in the 3rd quarter in that heavy shaddow that the home stands throw with bottom half of the field in shaddow and the top in full sunlight.

I haven't watched any Fox digital in a couple of months, the audio is still jacked up and distorted. The TWC tech that came out said it must have been something on my node?

Originally posted by jacksonian
I haven't watched any Fox digital in a couple of months, the audio is still jacked up and distorted. The TWC tech that came out said it must have been something on my node?

Can you give me a call here at the station? 821-1144 and I will be happy to go to bat for you. I know the head end guy pretty well and he maybe able to shake things up.

I left you a voice mail.

For those unaware, the old HDTV list hosted at fortmill went belly up a little over a month ago. It has been reactivated in connection with the www.nchdtv.com site. If you were a member of the old fortmills list, you should have received an invite to join the new list. If you didn't receive an invite or wish to join, go to www.w4cl.net/mailman/listinfo and click on nchdtv and join.

The list is open to all with an interest in North Carolina HD and the areas that overlap from South Carolina and Virginia.

Hey, Jacksonian, how did your cable work out?

No change as of Monday night, I emailed TWC again, haven't checked in the last 2 nights due to work.

Just got my Pace box - definitely easier to use than the 3100. Thanks for the "heads up", guys!

Pam

Originally posted by jacksonian
No change as of Monday night, I emailed TWC again, haven't checked in the last 2 nights due to work.

Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

FYI - WXLV-DT 29 has been off the air for a least a week now. I understand that they are modifying the transmitter to reduce power. The electric bill is killing them is my understanding. No HD at this time planned.

Doh!

Originally posted by jacksonian
Doh!

But they will be doing news again at 11pm on WXLV. It will be recycled from the 10pm news on WUPN. It starts in January.

I noticed their digital signal was missing....

Originally posted by PamW
I noticed their digital signal was missing....

They are retrofitting the transmitter to produce less power output to save on the electric bill and so they are off the air right now.

I received this email update from TWC yesterday:

"Good Morning!



Thank you for patiently awaiting more information about upcoming HD programming availability. When you contacted Time Warner Cable’s customer service department at customerservice@triadtwcable.com, I promised to forward information about HD programming as it became available. There are some excellent HD programming options headed your way as early as tomorrow. December 3rd through April 2004, NBA HD will be offering sports programming on channel 560. Beginning in January 2004, Fox Cable Networks will be broadcasting regional NHL games on channel 561. In addition, two iNDEMAND HD channels will launch by first quarter of next year which will include a combination of movies, events and sports. Soon we will be offering a new High Definition service tier, HD Pack, but the launch date has yet to be decided. The HD DVR is expected to be available by January or February of 2004, once the beta testing is complete. As you can see, Time Warner Cable has excellent HD programming headed your way in 2004."

Looks like the days of free HD are coming to an end for TWC around here. I'm going to reply with a request that ESPN-HD be a part of this package if I'm going to have to pay extra for it.

But HOLY CRAP, an HD DVR in a couple of months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by jacksonian
But HOLY CRAP, an HD DVR in a couple of months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RCA already has one out adn it lists for aournd $400.

Yeah, but I was excited because I was figuring TWC wasn't going to charge me $400 for it. Plus I need it to work with my TWC.

UPDATE!!!

INHD 1&2 appeared magically on Triad TWC on Mon. or Tues. According to the website, the NBAHD & FOXHD programming will be shown on these 2 channels when available.

http://triadtwcable.com/cableserv/hdtvnets.htm

Originally posted by jacksonian
Yeah, but I was excited because I was figuring TWC wasn't going to charge me $400 for it. Plus I need it to work with my TWC.

AND........1/2 the monthly fee as Tivo.

I went by the Adelphia Office in Martinsville today and asked about HDTV availability. They said not yet available, but they allowed me to sign up as a beta tester and will install the STB Monday. As a beta tester, I get the first month free. The cost for the STB is $8.99/month. Of course after they roll it out there will probably be a better promotion! If they're rolling it out in Martinsville, they must be rolling it out everywhere!

Initially available is NBC, ABC, and PBS (Roanoke I presume - they're info didn't say) which is OK since I get CBS OTA. When they pick up CBS, I'll aim my antenna south for the Triad stations.

Also available free for the first month are HBOHD and Showtime HD. We'll see since I get neither of these from them at this time.

WGHP-DT went off this afternoon around 2pm when we lost the pre-amplifier in the DTV transmitter. I am trying several work arounds to get enough power to put out more than a whisper.

TWC was to have hooked up the fiber feed from the studio to channel 510 so those on cable should have the feed but those who get WGHP-DT OTA are out of luck until we receive the new preamp on Thursday.

foxeng:Can you give me an estimate of when WGHP-HD will come back on the air? I was trying out a new antenna last night and was puzzled as to why I could not pick up Channel 8 in HD, but could get other channels that are not as close to me as this one. Thanks

Originally posted by cliffy51
foxeng:Can you give me an estimate of when WGHP-HD will come back on the air? I was trying out a new antenna last night and was puzzled as to why I could not pick up Channel 8 in HD, but could get other channels that are not as close to me as this one. Thanks


We came back up at 10:53 this morning and I am looking at it here at the studio off air as I type this. It would have been back up yesterday if I hadn't found another bad module that the factory had to ship to me over night last night after I put in the original replacement for the first bad module that took them two days to send to me in the first place.

Thanks for the reply-I'll go home tonight and see what kind of signal I get.

Originally posted by cliffy51
Thanks for the reply-I'll go home tonight and see what kind of signal I get.

Let me know either way what you get or don't get.

I was talking to the TWC guys yesterday and they were telling me that the FOX Sports HD feeds will be on the INHD channels on TWC in this area. The first game will be in early January.

Thanks for the updates foxeng!

After the first of the year, what is everyone's thought about a get together on a Saturday night or something? I don't know of any place that has an HD set that is displays HD. If anyone knows of a sports bar or restaurant that does, maybe we can meet there.

Anyone have any other ideas? Anyone even interested? Anyone wants to spearhead this?

It's my busy season (I sing with a group of carolers all over the Triad and at church) but I think we could figure out something in a few weeks - whaddya'll think?

I am certainly interested. I don't think that a place with an HDTV would be necessary. What is more important is a location which is quiet so we could comfortably talk would be the main requirement. I would be happy to look in the Winston-Salem area for such a place.

I vote for having some HD available, kind of loses something without it since we know each other via an HD forum, don't you think?

Foxeng-

I see on Sinclair's website (http://www.sbgi.net/business/markets/greensboro.shtml) that WXLV is supposedly "HDTV ready". Do you know anything better than that? I'm on TWC, and am sitting here hating all the good bowls & playoff games I'm missing in HD. I am really bummed that I'm getting my nedw Benj8700 native 720p projector in time for the Super Bowl, yet not a damn chance of seeing it in HD.

roland6465,

We are all bummed about the ABC affiliate - however, the Super Bowl will be on CBS this year and they will be in HDTV!

Oh yeah, I forgot....No HD Panthers game Saturday though. No HD Rose bowl now. Man, I hate being an early adopter!

You aren't really early - Sinclair is just really late!

Originally posted by roland6465
Foxeng-

I see on Sinclair's website (http://www.sbgi.net/business/markets/greensboro.shtml) that WXLV is supposedly "HDTV ready". Do you know anything better than that? I'm on TWC, and am sitting here hating all the good bowls & playoff games I'm missing in HD. I am really bummed that I'm getting my nedw Benj8700 native 720p projector in time for the Super Bowl, yet not a damn chance of seeing it in HD.

The Super Bowl will be on WFMY-DT this year so you will be in good shape for that. (A bunch from the station are threatening to hijack one of the new 65" Mits RP we will be installing on the news set for the Super Bowl but the GM would :( on that!)

The last I heard was WXLV was getting ready to go HD for MNT for this past fall. They still have the second stream up, set at 720p with nothing on it. Black picture.

They did put in a new automated master control and suposedly that was the hold up but that has been on line for a couple of months now, so I don't know.

Thanks for the quick response!

roland,
When are you getting the BenQ? I have my theater set up with the Panasonic PT-L300u LCD pj, you can see my pics in the gallery. I'd love to get a chance to see an HD2 DLP machine in action. Where will you set it up, your Living Room Theatre doesn't look conducive.

Better be coming today, dammit. The living room is an outdated link. I have an unfinished basement space that I have no pics of right now. I am currently using an ECP3500 CRT down there, but for space and ease of use issues, I'm going DLP. (make me an offer on the Electrohome if you want it)

I have about 85% light control down there until sundown, when it becomes totally dark. It's an odd shape right now due to the heat pump jutting out into the space. I don't have a digital camera, but I'll try to post some 35mm scans when I get it setup & tweaked.

Update, jacksonian:

UPS majorly dropped the ball, and I'm waiting to hear back from them as to how the Hell my pj got scanned in at the local depot at 6 this morning, yet got pushed back to a Monday delivery. This is 2nd day air I paid extra for! I already took one day off work for this thing, I can't take Monday, too. I have one person calling drivers and another scouting the warehouse for it. I can't believe this. Actually I can, it is my luck in a nutshell.

Last year after a series of problems, an online electronics seller agreed to pay an extra $149 overnight shipping charge to ensure that an LCD TV got to me by Christmas. The carrier failed to send it overnight--it came 2 days later. The carrier, when I went down to their depot, said "I'd be mad too. But I can't make it appear by snapping my fingers." When it did show up, they didn't offer to refund the $149 or anything. Just business as sometimes usual.:o

Sorry, Roland, I know that's a pain in the butt. Same thing happened with my Dell laptop, I ended up having to drive over at 8pm and wait for the driver to come in. Ironically, I worked as a supervisor for the next day and second day air section in Greensboro when I was in college. It should not have gotten pushed back. Keep us posted.

You've gotten my interest up about this pj. I've been reading some of the threads over in the >3500 forum about it. I don't think I'm a DLP guy until they have affordable 3 chip models due to rainbow sensitivity, but I'd still like to see what kind of progress they're making.

Well it finally happened - they teased us with TWC on the INHD channels and today as I was perusing the channels they were "unauthorized" - I can't get them anymore - that is, unless I pay extra for these things :(

Yeah, I called 2 CSRs until I found that they will be added with "a couple of more HD channels.

They're going to be part of the HD Pack, INHD-INHD2-HDNet-HDNet Movies. Looks like folks are getting charged $5-$10 for it around the country.

They should have the HD DVR in the next month or so.

The TWC site now has additional information, including what's in the HDTV "Pak" and what it will cost.

Finding their HTDV news on TWC's site is a challenge, but eventually you can get to the HDTV page. You have to travel through several links: It's under "Cable Services" then "Digital Cable" then HTDV, then several additional links until you land here

http://www.triadtwcable.com/cableserv/hdpack.htm


Here's the highlights:

Cost: $6.95 a month.
Contents of the "pak":

INHD and INHD2.
HDNet and HDNetMovies.

Plus "More HD channels will be added as they become available."

The HDTV channels we've been getting (UNC with their lovely giant LOGO, Discover, HBO, Showtime, and the networks will continue to be available as is...not in the new "pak"...also it appears NBA TV and Fox Sports Net will also remain included in the standard Digital "pak" cost.

:p :p

Good find, era. I'll definately plunk down the extra $7/month. I missed HDNet ever since I switched from DirecTV back to cable. It is right up there with DiscoveryHD as far as PQ.

Yes, there's nothing like the quality of shows recorded directly in digital HDTV. I was curious to find out why Mark Cuban--who's such a big supporter of HDTV--permitted his stations to add a logo bug and thereby pretty much wreck the picture (for me anyway). He didn't explain why other networks do it, but he said he does it because his are new stations and he wants people watching the picture in stores to know what they're watching.
That doesn't explain why other, established stations do the same thing. Perhaps TV manufacturers could be persuaded to add a little LCD window somewhere on the set that displays the name of the current network (some shortwave radio stations can do this). Then the logos could go there and off the picture.
:D

WXLV has no plans to broadcast ABC in High Definition. Depending on your
location you may be able to pick up WTVD in Raleigh or WSOC in
Charlotte - - - Both stations broadcast ABC in High Definition.

The website says "Eventually we will also broadcast our signal in HDTV . .
.."

I don't mean to sound like a wise guy, eventually we will broadcast our
signal in HDTV - - - but not in the near future.

I understand that this answer will not satisfy you.



From the Sinclair web page:


If you are one of the lucky people who own a DTV receiver (either an actual
digital TV, or a digital receiver box), you can see ABC 45's programming on
digital channel 29, with images and sound of a higher quality than standard
analog TV. In addition, we will have the ability in the future to broadcast
alternate programming on our subchannels, numbered 29.1, 29.2, 29.3, 29.4
and 29.5. Eventually we will also broadcast our signal in HDTV, which stands
for High-definition Digital Television- a standard with even higher-quality
imaging and sound, as well as a widescreen format.

This sounds a lot like never to me.

I've officially given up on xlv.

Regarding TWC's HDTV on channels 560 and 561, they will only be used during sports games evidently.

Here is the message TWC sent about 560 and 561:

"The programming on channel 560 and 561 will only show if a game is available to view. December 3rd through April 2004, NBA HD will be offering sports programming on channel 560. Beginning in January 2004, Fox Cable Networks will be broadcasting regional NHL games on channel 561."

Here's the schedule that TWC kindly sent me for those who are interested in viewing these HDTV cable channels in the coming months:

NBA HD Games and Carolina Hurricanes HD Games
NBA HD Games shown on channel 560

Day of Week Date Time Team 1 Team 2
Wednesday 12/3/2003 8:30 PM L.A. Lakers San Antonio
Tuesday 12/9/2003 10:30 PM New York L.A. Lakers
Wednesday 12/10/2003 7:00 PM Orlando Washington
Tuesday 12/16/2003 7:30 PM Atlanta Miami
Sunday 12/21/2003 9:30 PM Phoenix L.A. Lakers
Monday 12/22/2003 7:00 PM Orlando Philadelphia
Tuesday 12/23/2003 7:30 PM Minnesota New York
Tuesday 12/30/2003 7:00 PM Atlanta Washington
Saturday 1/3/2004 10:00 PM Atlanta Denver
Sunday 1/4/2004 7:00 PM New Jersey New York
Tuesday 1/6/2004 8:30 PM Washington San Antonio
Saturday 1/17/2004 7:00 PM Seattle Washington
Saturday 1/24/2004 9:00 PM L.A. Lakers Utah
Monday 1/26/2004 9:00 PM Minnesota Denver
Tuesday 1/27/2004 7:00 PM New Jersey Philadelphia
Saturday 1/31/2004 7:30 PM Phoenix New York
Monday 2/2/2004 9:00 PM San Antonio Utah
Tuesday 2/3/2004 7:00 PM Toronto Philadelphia
Saturday 2/7/2004 8:00 PM New Orleans Milwaukee
Tuesday 2/17/2004 10:30 PM Portland L.A. Lakers
Saturday 2/21/2004 8:30 PM Houston Dallas
Monday 2/23/2004 7:00 PM Detroit Philadelphia
Tuesday 2/24/2004 7:00 PM Portland Orlando
Saturday 2/28/2004 8:00 PM Philadelphia Indiana
Monday 3/1/2004 8:30 PM Memphis San Antonio
Saturday 3/6/2004 9:00 PM San Antonio Phoenix
Monday 3/8/2004 7:00 PM Milwaukee Philadelphia
Tuesday 3/9/2004 7:30 PM Boston New York
Wednesday 3/10/2004 7:00 PM Washington Orlando
Friday 3/12/2004 7:00 PM New York Philadelphia
Tuesday 3/16/2004 7:30 PM Washington New York
Monday 3/22/2004 7:00 PM Dallas Philadelphia
Tuesday 3/23/2004 8:00 PM San Antonio Minnesota
Sunday 3/28/2004 4:00 PM Houston Milwaukee
Tuesday 3/30/2004 8:00 PM Indiana Milwaukee
Wednesday 3/31/2004 8:30 PM Sacramento San Antonio
Saturday 4/10/2004 7:00 PM Detroit Orlando
Tuesday 4/13/2004 8:30 PM Memphis Dallas


Carolina Hurricanes games will be shown on channel 561

Day of Week Date Time Team 1 Team 2
Tuesday 1/6/2004 7:00 PM St. Louis Carolina
Thursday 1/15/2004 7:00 PM Tampa Bay Carolina
Saturday 1/31/2004 7:00 PM Detroit Carolina
Tuesday 2/3/2004 9:00 PM Colorado Carolina
Thursday 2/12/2004 7:00 PM Washington Carolina
Thursday 2/19/2004 7:00 PM Toronto Carolina
Saturday 2/21/2004 7:00 PM Boston Carolina
Tuesday 3/2/2004 7:00 PM Columbus Carolina
Saturday 3/13/2004 7:30 PM Tampa Bay Carolina
Tuesday 3/23/2004 7:00 PM Philadelphia Carolina

I've emailed and asked them to clarify. Basically, they've taken away INHD & INHD2 until they give it back to us later as the HD Pack bundled with the HDNet and HDNet Movies. She said she hoped by the end of the month, but they're still working out the contract with HDNet.

Too bad I hate basketball and hockey.

Yeah, I was also told that the "HD Pack" would be in place by 2/1. I guess they're going to be on different channels? I really didn't mind having them shared with FOXHD & NBAHD.

Yes, I've always thought basketball was no fun to watch. A very strange game, with too many rules about the way you can move and so on. It's rather mechanical, like pinball or something. I don't know. I like elemental games with few rules, like Aussie football or boxing.:p

I just wish TWC would add the Raleigh ABC affiliate to the lineup - I know they can't/won't, but a girl can dream! Sinclair is just not getting it!

roland,
Did you get the BenQ yet? I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on it.

Pam,
Yeah, we were in Raleigh over the weekend and for a brief moment I considered moving there just for the HD!

We watched the Panthers game Sat night on XLV and it was tolerable (barely), but I am thrilled to know the Super Bowl will be on WFMY.

I was pretty bummed when I found out the Panthers were in HD, but that we couldn't get it.

Stinks, doesn't it?

Yeah, I think I'm going to send xlv another constructive email just to make me feel better.

Sounds good to me...

Is anyone receiving our local DT channels OTA? I would be interested in your experience.

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
Is anyone receiving our local DT channels OTA? I would be interested in your experience.

I am receiving them all with a Samsung SIR-TS160 and a Channel Master 4228 with a RS pre-amp at 15 ft on the north side of Greensboro.

Anyone getting the ABC out of Charlotte or Raleigh? My email to XLV today came back with the same reply, no plans to offer HD, see if you can pick up the Charlotte or Raleigh affiliates. Boy, those guys are really making me mad.

foxeng,
Are you having any picture breakup and audio dropout problems? I have a Sony HD 300 receiver and at times, such as the Bronco/Colt game on WFMY yesterday, the problem was frequent enough that I gave up and swithced to satellite. I thought that possibly my problem was tall trees around my house but a friend of mine with no trees and a Hughes receiver was having the same problem simultaneous with my problem. My signal strength meter on the receiver shows a "good" signal most of the time but intermittently it drops off to bad to no signal as the problem occurs.
I would guess that I am about the same distance from WFMY as you are from WXII and WUNL, that is 30 miles and 25 miles respectively. Certainly the 4228 should do a good job considering its specs. I am not familiar with the RS pre-amp. Is RS a brand? I assume you are using a rotator, yes? About how long is your cable run? Where did you get your equipment? Thanks for your help.
By the way, have you received much response to a meeting?
Jim

Originally posted by jacksonian
Anyone getting the ABC out of Charlotte or Raleigh? My email to XLV today came back with the same reply, no plans to offer HD, see if you can pick up the Charlotte or Raleigh affiliates. Boy, those guys are really making me mad.

I don't see WSOC-DT 34 Charlotte at all, but I do see WTVD-DT 52 (11-1) most of the time here. People in Winston-Salem get WSOC-DT with no problem, but do not see WTVD-DT.

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
foxeng,
Are you having any picture breakup and audio dropout problems? I have a Sony HD 300 receiver and at times, such as the Bronco/Colt game on WFMY yesterday, the problem was frequent enough that I gave up and swithced to satellite. I thought that possibly my problem was tall trees around my house but a friend of mine with no trees and a Hughes receiver was having the same problem simultaneous with my problem. My signal strength meter on the receiver shows a "good" signal most of the time but intermittently it drops off to bad to no signal as the problem occurs.
I would guess that I am about the same distance from WFMY as you are from WXII and WUNL, that is 30 miles and 25 miles respectively. Certainly the 4228 should do a good job considering its specs. I am not familiar with the RS pre-amp. Is RS a brand? I assume you are using a rotator, yes? About how long is your cable run? Where did you get your equipment? Thanks for your help.
By the way, have you received much response to a meeting?
Jim

I have noticed if the wind is blowing, I will have drop outs on WXII-DT and WFMY-DT is a hit and miss thing. I didn't see any of the Bronco's/Colt"s game, but tonight on CSI:Miami there was considerable macroblocking, the worst I have seen on WFMY, and it was on everything from CBS. Since they didn't switch to any local stuff, I don't know if it was their sat feed or my receiver.

I personally have been suspect of their network feed. I have seen macroblocking on some shows and then switch to WDBJ-DT Roanoke and not see it. I am assuming they are receiving their HD signal the same way they get their SD signal. Because of terrestrial interference (TI) at Phillips Ave on their CBS dish, they have had their CBS dish at their transmitter at Level Cross for many years and microwave it back to Phillips Ave. I am assuming they are doing the same thing with the HD signal and that may cause additional problems not seen with other CBS' like WDBJ-DT and WRAL-DT. I don't know. I have seen break up on WFMY-DT when my flee powered signal was solid and it should be the other way around when you figure that we are running 4200 watts at 900 ft and WFMY-DT is running 500,000 watts at 1900 ft. They are using a different encoder than we are and I know it is an earlier generation than ours. That too may have something to do with it. Again I don't know.

My antenna setup is pretty crappy by design. When I put it up in April of 2002, it was to mimic a worst case antenna setup and still pick up WGHP-DT. I run 100 ft of crappy RG-59 (I only need 50 ft) and a cheap Radio Shack (RS) pre-amp that gets overloaded easily and it is mounted on a not so stable tower section lashed to my fence at 15 ft up and so every time the wind blows, the antenna blows around pretty good and I get bad drop outs then. Worst of the worst and I do OK. I am getting tired of the break ups so when the weather breaks, I am going to install it on the roof with a good Winegard pre-amp that I have and about 50 ft of sat quality RG-6 so my reception should improve even more.

I have noticed if the antenna is not pretty flat to horizontal, it will break up pretty good. It could be you are also having multipath issues. Best way to check is look at an analog signal on your antenna and if you see lots of ghosts on channel 48 analog that could be a factor as well. (Use channel 48 analog since it is beside WFMY's tower and WFMY's DT channel is 51, so it is in the same RF neighborhood. Comparing channel 2 analog with channel 51 digital is no comparison since channel 2 exhibits completely different propagation characteristics than any UHF channel.

I would start with that. Those are the most obvious and easy to check.

And no, I haven't heard anymore on a get together. I would hope now that the holidays are over, maybe we can get together, (a Super Bowl Party at someone's house who has a theater they want to show off or something?) or a restaurant. I defer to others on that.

Here's my second reply from WXLV after I told them that they were losing viewers and that they should at least pass on our requests to the parent company. Sounds like a load of bull to me. FYI

"Thanks for your message. All messages from viewers are forwarded to our corporate VP. Sinclair has opposed the format the FCC picked for HDTV (8-VSB) and prefers the European/Japan HDTV standard of CODFM -- - which Sinclair feels is better quality, more reliable, and fits in with a world wide standard format. There are several forms of analog TV: NTSC (used in the US), PAL, Secam, among others. This incompatibility has caused many problems for broadcasters, manufactures, and most of all consumers. A world wide standard of analog TV broadcasting would have brought down the cost of analog TV. Sinclair would prefer there were one standard format for HDTV. In addition, Like the BETA/VHS issue - - - where BETA was the highest quality format, but VHS eventually won out - - - the company is concerned about making a LARGE investment in unproven technology - - - which may become obsolete very quickly.

Sinclair revisits the HDTV issue on a regular basis and when they decide it is cost effective will offer ABC in High Definition."

This is the note I received from XLV after I emailed them with my frustrations...

Pam

"You won't like this answer:

WXLV has no plans to broadcast ABC in High Definition. Depending on your
location you may be able to pick up WTVD in Raleigh or WSOC in
Charlotte. Both stations broadcast ABC in High Definition. OTA is an
option, you just need toa add a switch bewteen cable and the antenna.

The owners are reviewing this decision and it is possible that it might
change.


--
Jack O'Doherty
WXLV/WUPN Engineering
v336-722-4545 f336-723-8217
jodohert@sbgnet.com"

Yeah, that's similar to the first one I received. When I sent the second one I explained that those of us early HD adopters were quite often those in higher income brackets and thus desirable to their advertisers. I also pointed out that I'll watch any other station in HD over anything WXLV has in SD. That's when I got the second longer reply. I think Sinclair is just cheap and they're trying to milk every last cent out of analog before they make the jump.

foxeng,
"I have noticed if the antenna is not pretty flat to horizontal, it will break up pretty good." What do you mean "flat to horizontal"? Also, what is "macroblocking"? The 4228 is very directional, is it not?
I have always had a problem with multipathing on WXII analog but not on WFMY. That leads me to believe that my problem is not that. That seemed to be confirmed Sunday when my friend was experiencing picture breakup simultaneous with me and he doesn't have any tall structures near by.
Jim

Here's today's info on a couple of HDTV topics from TWC:

"The launch date for the HD Pack has yet to be decided, but we will be happy to notify you when we have more information. The HD DVR is expected to be available by March of 2004, once the beta testing is complete."

I wonder how big the hard drive is going to be inside the DVR...Unless they compress the heck out of the data, it should require mucho gigabytes for even a reasonable amount of recording.
:p

I wonder if htere's a Pace HDPVR? I'd hate to give up one of my 550's for a SA box.

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
foxeng,
"I have noticed if the antenna is not pretty flat to horizontal, it will break up pretty good." What do you mean "flat to horizontal"?

The 4228 needs to be as straight up and down as possible.

Also, what is "macroblocking"?

That is those very small blocks you see in the picture in very fast movement of any type.

The 4228 is very directional, is it not?

It is fairly directional, but it isn't exactly pinpoint either.

I have always had a problem with multipathing on WXII analog but not on WFMY. That leads me to believe that my problem is not that. That seemed to be confirmed Sunday when my friend was experiencing picture breakup simultaneous with me and he doesn't have any tall structures near by.
Jim

I talked to some people at work who saw the game via TWC and they said it was fine. That sounds like you had a low signal or something was causing some type of interference.

Jim,

I have a Channel Master 4221 with pre-amp and rotor, roof-mounted. STB is a Samsung SIR-T151.

I'm in a good position here in Thomasville - I can pick up all the Triad stations and all the Charlotte stations - clear and strong.

I saved money on the STB, but it's worth it to have the antenna professionally installed, IMO.

DE

Originally posted by foxeng
I was talking to the TWC guys yesterday and they were telling me that the FOX Sports HD feeds will be on the INHD channels on TWC in this area. The first game will be in early January.

Will this apply to the Panthers game on Saturday, foxeng?

DE,
Do you ever experience picture breakup and audio dropouts? Does your STB have a signal strength meter? If so, what level signal do you normally receive? What are your distances from the WXII and WFMY transmitters? I think you have a very good point about professional installation of the antenna. However, I don't know of anyone in the area. Who did you use? By the way, in case you are not familiar with the site, you can get the distances from your address to the transmitters on the following site: http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.asp
Jim

Originally posted by PamW
Will this apply to the Panthers game on Saturday, foxeng?

No, this is only for sports on FOX Sports Net (FOX Sports South). FOX Network sports (sports carried on OTA stations) will be carried on the network only.

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
I think you have a very good point about professional installation of the antenna. However, I don't know of anyone in the area. Who did you use?

Here is one installer. I have never used him, but he used to install for Now Audio Video before he went out on his own.

Audio Video Installations, Roger Goodwin, 312-1690.

Well, here's today's update on the HDTV at TWC:

"Thank you for following up with us. At this time, there is not an official release date for the HD Pack available. The HD DVR will hopefully be offered by the end of February 2004. It will become publicly known when both of these exciting new options are obtainable. Please let us know if you need further assistance. Have a nice day."

I'm hoping they get the "pak" up and running soon. It's got good things in it!





:)

Yeah, I'm ready. I wish they hadn't taken away INHD & INHD2 until they get the pak ready. I'm excited about HDNET and HDNET movies. I'm hoping they can work ESPN HD soon also, although football will be over and I don't care for the spring sports.

foxeng
quote:Originally posted by jacksonian
Anyone getting the ABC out of Charlotte or Raleigh? My email to XLV today came back with the same reply, no plans to offer HD, see if you can pick up the Charlotte or Raleigh affiliates. Boy, those guys are really making me mad.

I don't see WSOC-DT 34 Charlotte at all, but I do see WTVD-DT 52 (11-1) most of the time here. People in Winston-Salem get WSOC-DT with no problem, but do not see WTVD-DT.

Can anyone explain to me why I can pick up WTVD - DT out of RAL DUR on cool or cold evenings, but during this past weekend I never could lock it in for more than 2 minutes when the outside temperature was warmer.:confused:

Originally posted by wiloliwad
Can anyone explain to me why I can pick up WTVD - DT out of RAL DUR on cool or cold evenings, but during this past weekend I never could lock it in for more than 2 minutes when the outside temperature was warmer.:confused:

There was some very strange weather this past weekend. Because it was so warm during the day and cool at night, it set up what is called tropospheric ducting. In layman's terms, it is when 2 layers of similar air temperature (warm) is split between a much different temperature air (cold) and it acts like an air duct in your house. If 2 antennas are in the this "duct" the RF will carry much farther than normal or if one antenna is not in the duct, it may not allow the RF to "drop out" of the duct and not be received.

Thanks for the easy to understand explanation FOXENG.
These forums are a great way to stay updated on HDTV info and reception.

With the new announcement from D* that they will be carrying a national feed of CBS-HD, has anyone tried to get a waiver from our local CBS? I have yet to dive into the antenna world, but this could alleviate some of that.

I doubt you'll get it from WFMY. They put out a strong signal that" could lock in from Southside Winston with a set top antenna.

Hey FoxEng, any opinions on this rumor or allegations that D* is going to offer Fox-HD to O&O markets? I understand we are one. When are they planning to roll out HD? Or are they just talking about the Hi-Res stuff?

Brand new here. I've enjoyed reading all your posts the last few weeks.

Question: Why can I not get the digital feed out of Fox 8? I'm getting it from Channels 2, 12, and 45 on my rotary antenna. I've gone 360 degrees with it, and can't get a thing.

Can someone help me out before the football games this weekend?

Originally posted by ShackShock
When are they planning to roll out HD? Or are they just talking about the Hi-Res stuff?


;) I can tell you that there will be FOX network 720p in 2004, but I think somebody somewhere said something to the effect that WGHP is upconverting 720p as we speak, but I'm not really sure where I might have gotten that idea. ;)

Originally posted by BobbyOak
Brand new here. I've enjoyed reading all your posts the last few weeks.

Question: Why can I not get the digital feed out of Fox 8? I'm getting it from Channels 2, 12, and 45 on my rotary antenna. I've gone 360 degrees with it, and can't get a thing.

Can someone help me out before the football games this weekend?

Sorry, can't help you there, but I recall having a time pulling in a steady signal on WGHP with both my aerial and set top antennas. That was about 5 months ago before I went back to cable.

Originally posted by ShackShock
Hey FoxEng, any opinions on this rumor or allegations that D* is going to offer Fox-HD to O&O markets? I understand we are one. When are they planning to roll out HD? Or are they just talking about the Hi-Res stuff?

Sorry for the delay. I have been on a roof in downtown Greensboro all day freezing my butt off working on a live truck receive site.

Network HD (720p) is scheduled to debut in the Fall. They haven't given us a definite start date yet. Yes, FOX does own WGHP so this market will have the FOX HD feed from WNYW, New York. This will be the only market in North or South Carolina or Virginia. I would assume that the FOX HD feed on D* will start at that time. If I am reading the statement correctly, if you have the local package then you will get it free. If you don't, you will not get it. This is tied to having the local package and not the HD package. So those people in the Martinsville area who have the Greensboro local package will have it. The Danville area will not since the Greensboro locals are not offered there.

The CBS HD package does not apply here since WFMY is owned by Ganett and not CBS and getting a waiver from them is slim to none.

The promised new HDTV digital video recorder (hard drive) from TWC must be monstrous in size. Given the necessary ratio of 5:1 of HDTV versus ordinary DVD-level data, I suspect we'll see a 100 Gig hard drive to equal a 40 Gig ordinary DVR. (Digital TV isn't as bit-expensive as DVD, so perhaps this ratio is 3:1). Does anyone know?

Originally posted by BobbyOak
Brand new here. I've enjoyed reading all your posts the last few weeks.

Question: Why can I not get the digital feed out of Fox 8? I'm getting it from Channels 2, 12, and 45 on my rotary antenna. I've gone 360 degrees with it, and can't get a thing.

Can someone help me out before the football games this weekend?

The digital feed from FOX8 is on channel 35. We are running low power right now, but I live in north Greensboro and get it just fine with an outside antenna. An indoor will not get it. Our transmitter is located at Randleman so you will need to point in that direction.

foxeng - My antenna cable runs about 50 ft., and I do not have a preamp.

With Fox in "low power" do you think this could be the problem?

Originally posted by BobbyOak
foxeng - My antenna cable runs about 50 ft., and I do not have a preamp.

With Fox in "low power" do you think this could be the problem?

Absolutely. I run a Channel Master 4228 at 15 ft off the ground on my fence with a Radio Shack pre-amp (not the best but it does work for what I want to do) and 100 ft of RG-59 (not the best either) and I get us with no problem off Battleground and Westridge.

foxeng,
Thanks for the info on Roger Goodwin. I have talked to him and he certainly seems to understand the challenges of good HD reception and have the experience to deal with them. Accordingly I am preparing to go with him for a full installation of a CM 4228, preamp, auto rotator, and high quality qual shield cable. This will be an investment of about $400.
This decision is based on my take of the D* situation that they will not offer full local HD service, at least in our area, for a long time to come, given the bandwidth required for each channel. This is considering their announcement today of limited CBS and Fox local coverage. May I ask your opinion? Is my thinking sound?
Jim

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Originally posted by foxeng


Network HD (720p) is scheduled to debut in the Fall. They haven't given us a definite start date yet. Yes, FOX does own WGHP so this market will have the FOX HD feed from WNYW, New York. This will be the only market in North or South Carolina or Virginia.

FOXENG,
If this is the case, will you be boosting the power. At the present time if I want to watch anything on FOX, I choose FOX50 instead of your station because they do upconvert to 1080i, show HDNET programming during the day, plus HD Hockey,GO CANES! But the problem I have even with my CM4251 and 7775 amp, I have a hard time getting your signal. On my other antenna setup, stacked Televes, I just can't get it all. I assume that FOX will give us a few HD sports programs and it would be nice to view them without the signal breaking up from time to time.

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
This decision is based on my take of the D* situation that they will not offer full local HD service, at least in our area, for a long time to come, given the bandwidth required for each channel. This is considering their announcement today of limited CBS and Fox local coverage. May I ask your opinion? Is my thinking sound?
Jim

I think this is good for those who are just out of range of our low power signal because it gives them FOX HD. Of course, it will not be our signal, but WNYW-DT, New York. But the only time you will see HD will be during prime time and sports anyway, but their sports will more times than not, not be the same thing you see locally, so say if you are a Carolina Panthers fan, you will not see the Panthers on WNYW, but the NY (football) Giants. The rest of the time, it will be SD upconvert so there is no real value to watch WNYW then since their local newscasts (and they have less news than we do) will be for NYC.

We have access to WNYW at the station and to be honest, they don't impress me. Their programming feels "sterile." They run many of the same programs we do, just at different times, like Good Day Live we run at 1pm and they run at noon, but we have a noon newscast and they don't, stuff like that. (We have access to KTTV in LA as well and it too is even more "sterile." We may be podunk here, but I swear, I think we do a better job than NYC and LA.)

Originally posted by zmeister
FOXENG,
If this is the case, will you be boosting the power. At the present time if I want to watch anything on FOX, I choose FOX50 instead of your station because they do upconvert to 1080i, show HDNET programming during the day, plus HD Hockey,GO CANES! But the problem I have even with my CM4251 and 7775 amp, I have a hard time getting your signal. On my other antenna setup, stacked Televes, I just can't get it all. I assume that FOX will give us a few HD sports programs and it would be nice to view them without the signal breaking up from time to time.

In Elon, you are right on the coverage edge for our current power level. At this time, there still is no time frame for when we will increase power.

WRAZ-DT is in 720p now for their HD channel and 480 for the SD and the WRAL Weather Channel. We upconvert also and I must admit, it is a pretty good looking signal for upconvert.

Like I said in an earlier post, the FOX HD channel will be WNYW-DT NYC so the sports will not always be the same. WGHP-DT is on TWC now throughout the full system here in the Piedmont so if you have that, channel 510 is a direct fiber feed from our DTV encoder to their head end and then on to your HD STB.

foxeng,
The point of my earlier question regarding D* HD local coverage was that an investment of $400 at this time for a top quality UHF antenna installation makes sense because D* is highly unlikely to offer local HD channels to any great extent in the next several years. From your perspective, would you agree? By the way, the location of my house precludes cable service.
Jim

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
foxeng,
The point of my earlier question regarding D* HD local coverage was that an investment of $400 at this time for a top quality UHF antenna installation makes sense because D* is highly unlikely to offer local HD channels to any great extent in the next several years. From your perspective, would you agree? By the way, the location of my house precludes cable service.
Jim

Sorry, I misunderstood you question. From my standpoint yes, that is a good investment because not only do you get the locals, but you will also get stations from other nearby markets that may not carry everything the locals do or if a local is having trouble, you have another avenue. Prime example is CBS. WFMY will occasionally have dropout problems or stuttering audio. When that happens, I have the choice of WDBJ-DT in Roanoke or WRAL-DT in Raleigh for my CBS. Same is true with NBC. IF WXII is having a problem, I can get WNCN-DT in Raleigh. And ABC HD? I don't have to rely on WXLV-DT. I get WTVD-DT out of Raleigh for my ABC HD.

People who live in Winston-Salem get the Charlotte network DTV stations so they have an added viewing experience as well.

If you want uninterrupted OTA network, that is a sure fire way to keep it. It has been years since I had access to an outside antenna and when I put mine up in 2002 for DTV, it opened up a whole new world of viewing. The last time I had an OTA antenna was 1978 and TV has changed DRAMATICALLY since then. (more stations, more diversity) Even though I have D* with locals, I find that I am watching more OTA, HD and SD because of the choices that OTA gives me.

You mileage may vary.

foxeng,
Many thanks for your insight. From the hits we have been getting on this thread recently, we should be able to get a good group together for an exchange. Anything I can do?
Jim

Originally posted by foxeng


...

So those people in the Martinsville area who have the Greensboro local package will have it.

...



I live in Martinsville, but am not aware that we can get the Greensboro locals. In fact my understanding of the law was that we could only get the locals from our Nielson (sp?) market, which is Roanoke. I consider this a serious flaw in the legislation not to be able to get all locals via satellite that we can get via antenna or cable. When I was a young warthog, we couldn't get ABC from Lynchburg very well (wrong side of the ridge) and were very happy when WGHP signed on (it was ABC in those days). I think our local cable dropped 8 when it went to Fox, but they still carry WFMY and WXII (analog only, of course).

Originally posted by vstone
I live in Martinsville, but am not aware that we can get the Greensboro locals. In fact my understanding of the law was that we could only get the locals from our Nielson (sp?) market, which is Roanoke. I consider this a serious flaw in the legislation not to be able to get all locals via satellite that we can get via antenna or cable. When I was a young warthog, we couldn't get ABC from Lynchburg very well (wrong side of the ridge) and were very happy when WGHP signed on (it was ABC in those days). I think our local cable dropped 8 when it went to Fox, but they still carry WFMY and WXII (analog only, of course).

I know there are some counties around Martinsville DO get the Greensboro locals on D*. It is determined by ZIPCode and I can't put my hands on that list right at the moment. It may not Martinsville persay, but there are some.

I just checked and if you live in Patrick County, VA, you will get the FOX National HD feed if you have the Greensboro local package on D*. This is the only county at this time in VA that is a part of the Greensboro-High Point-Winston-Salem DMA.

foxeng,
I'm not going to put an antenna on my house (just because I don't like them), but I have a 3rd story attic and I'm out in Summerfield. Do you think there's any chance that I can pick up ABC from Raleigh or Charlotte? Or is it just not going to happen without a mast antenna?

Originally posted by jacksonian
foxeng,
I'm not going to put an antenna on my house (just because I don't like them), but I have a 3rd story attic and I'm out in Summerfield. Do you think there's any chance that I can pick up ABC from Raleigh or Charlotte? Or is it just not going to happen without a mast antenna?

You can try it, but I think you will need a mast on the roof for Raleigh and Charlotte is out of the question. If you live in a hole, then even with a mast it might not be enough. Depends on how high your roof is and how deep the hole is.

From there you should be able to get ABC WSET-DT 34 Lynchburg. They are running 17kw but are on 4000 ft mountain.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of Lynchburg. I may give it a try.

Originally posted by foxeng
Sorry, I misunderstood you question. From my standpoint yes, that is a good investment because not only do you get the locals, but you will also get stations from other nearby markets that may not carry everything the locals do or if a local is having trouble, you have another avenue. Prime example is CBS. WFMY will occasionally have dropout problems or stuttering audio. When that happens, I have the choice of WDBJ-DT in Roanoke or WRAL-DT in Raleigh for my CBS. Same is true with NBC. IF WXII is having a problem, I can get WNCN-DT in Raleigh. And ABC HD? I don't have to rely on WXLV-DT. I get WTVD-DT out of Raleigh for my ABC HD.

People who live in Winston-Salem get the Charlotte network DTV stations so they have an added viewing experience as well.

If you want uninterrupted OTA network, that is a sure fire way to keep it. It has been years since I had access to an outside antenna and when I put mine up in 2002 for DTV, it opened up a whole new world of viewing. The last time I had an OTA antenna was 1978 and TV has changed DRAMATICALLY since then. (more stations, more diversity) Even though I have D* with locals, I find that I am watching more OTA, HD and SD because of the choices that OTA gives me.

You mileage may vary.

This is why I went for DTV-OTA years ago. I have had 5 digital tuners over the past 3 years(still have 4) and have tried at least 6 different antennas trying to get access to 3 markets. I do like the idea of having the option of viewing New York market games on FOX8. Believe or not it will be a selling point, I will make to my buddies when they dive into HD. I do wish that FOX8, WSET, would bump up their power though! Of course my ultimate goal is to get 4 markets. I have been able to get a couple of Charlotte stations on good tropo nights.

Another advantage of OTA of course is the simple fact that the OTA picture bests any feed from satellite or cable!!!

zmeister,
What is your antenna setup and what stations do you receive and what are your distances from them?
Jim

How many will be watching the playoffs this weekend and will it be OTA or cable?

(OTA myself)

Some, OTA

Has anybody else noticed that the Fox pregame show isn't being shown in the right format. The picture is in EDTV format or if you will the Fox Widescreen format. However, the picture on WGHP is compressed into 4:3 screen size. Is this a problem at WGHP or a problem with the Fox network itself? I've seen the happen before with some of Fox's football broadcasts.

Edit: While is was typing this post the problem was fixed. However, would this problem occur at WGHP or was the problem with the feed Fox is sending out. I wonder because when this happens again I'd like to know who to call/email to fix it.

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
zmeister,
What is your antenna setup and what stations do you receive and what are your distances from them?
Jim

Primarily I use a CM4251 Parabolic with a CM7775 installed in my attic. I also have a pair of stacked Televes DT-75's that I use from time to time as well. The HD tuners that I'm using are the DISH 6000 and the LG3510. I also have the tuner in the VOOM receiver and a Samsung 165 that I'm not using.
I can recieve FOX, CBS, NBC, UPN, WB, ABC, PBS, SAH, from the Raleigh markets. These stations are about 60+ miles from me.

Piedmont stations, FOX, CBS, UPN, ABC, PBS, TCT, PAX. I cannot receive the WB20 which I think is transmitting low power from Lexington.

Roanoke; CBS, PAX. NBC and UPN on occassion. These stations are over 90+miles away.

I have picked up CBS and FOX out of Charlotte but that was due to good tropo ducting. I'm in a relative high area and I wish I could put my antennas outside but the windload on 4251 would probably bring it down and I would catch flack from the neighbors anyway.

Originally posted by uncrules
Has anybody else noticed that the Fox pregame show isn't being shown in the right format. The picture is in EDTV format or if you will the Fox Widescreen format. However, the picture on WGHP is compressed into 4:3 screen size. Is this a problem at WGHP or a problem with the Fox network itself? I've seen the happen before with some of Fox's football broadcasts.

Edit: While is was typing this post the problem was fixed. However, would this problem occur at WGHP or was the problem with the feed Fox is sending out. I wonder because when this happens again I'd like to know who to call/email to fix it.

We had a failure in a switching circuit on the aspect ratio converter. I saw it during the pre game and headed into work and got it fixed 5 minutes before the game. From what I was told when I got there, the phones were lighting up in the newsroom about it!

zmeister,
Can you tell me about your antenna? I don't want to put anything on my roof either and have a 3rd story attic with plenty of room that's right over my theater. I tried searching google and froogle for the model numbers you listed but I turned up nothing. I've never done OTA.

Originally posted by foxeng
We had a failure in a switching circuit on the aspect ratio converter. I saw it during the pre game and headed into work and got it fixed 5 minutes before the game. From what I was told when I got there, the phones were lighting up in the newsroom about it!

Thanks for the last minute fix.

Can somebody tell me what's the deal with WTWB-DT. Is it on the air? When I get my local channel listings downloaded to my satellite receiver, there is no DT channel for channel 20. All I get is the analog. Even if I tune my receiver to 20-1, it says the channel isn't available. Is anybody else getting it?

Originally posted by uncrules
Can somebody tell me what's the deal with WTWB-DT. Is it on the air? When I get my local channel listings downloaded to my satellite receiver, there is no DT channel for channel 20. All I get is the analog. Even if I tune my receiver to 20-1, it says the channel isn't available. Is anybody else getting it?

WTWB-DT is on the air at reduced power. Their antenna is at 500 feet on the same tower that WXLV-DT and WUPN-DT is on and they are running 9 kW. Their signal is concentrated mostly toward Lexington since that is the town they are licensed too, but I get a good signal on them here in north Greensboro. Their digital channel is 19, but they are not passing WB HD at this time.

Can you tune to WTWB's digital channel through your satellite receiver (for some reason I think you have D*) and see it in your program guide? I can tune to their analog channel through my satellite receiver but not their digital channel.

Originally posted by jacksonian
zmeister,
Can you tell me about your antenna? I don't want to put anything on my roof either and have a 3rd story attic with plenty of room that's right over my theater. I tried searching google and froogle for the model numbers you listed but I turned up nothing. I've never done OTA.

The ChannelMaster 4251 Parabolic was one of the best overall antennas ever manufactured. Unfortunately it's a big sucker and could not be shipped by UPS, and as a result was discontinued by CM. I was lucky to get one of the last ones, there is a chance somebody might still have one somewhere but unlikely. The Televes antenna, I actually ordered from England cost just about as much to ship here as the antenna. It is a good antenna but the jury is still out as toward the value. There is a new Gemini antenna that was designed by a guy who posts on this forum, that might also be a good choice.

If you have plenty of room in your attic, you do have plenty of options depending on how much you want to spend. My antennas are actually in an unfinished room on the 2nd floor. I don't have an attic per se, but the higher point in my house will only allow an antenna with a short turning radius.

If you are trying to pick a lot of distant stations you need to go for a more directional antenna like a CM4248 Yagi. But remember you will have to get a rotator. Also a preamp like the CM7775 might be needed as well.

One thing, read the antenna threads in this forum. There are several "old hats" with a lot experience with antennas, that know their stuff. That what I did!

Originally posted by uncrules
Can you tune to WTWB's digital channel through your satellite receiver (for some reason I think you have D*) and see it in your program guide? I can tune to their analog channel through my satellite receiver but not their digital channel.

I have the Samsung 160 also and yes, I see them in my guide. You may have to go into setup and tell the 160 you have no dishes and then you can enter 19-1 and if you receiving them, it will go into the guide and when you tell the system you have a dish, it will stay in the guide and should show the guide, but it will only have Regular Schedule. I don't' think they have told their programming agency they have their DTV on the air.

Thanks foxeng. That work. However, WTWB-DT comes in for me on 20-1, not 19-1. FWIW, I used to get WXLV-DT on 29-1 and 29-2, now they come in on 45-1 and 45-2.

Originally posted by uncrules
Thanks foxeng. That work. However, WTWB-DT comes in for me on 20-1, not 19-1. FWIW, I used to get WXLV-DT on 29-1 and 29-2, now they come in on 45-1 and 45-2.

WTWB-DT and WXLV-DT are using their PSIP to remap the channel. WTWB-DT is really on 19 but is telling your receiver it is 20 just as WXLV-DT is really on 29 but is telling your receiver it is 45. This is how PSIP works. WXII-DT is really on 31 but your receiver says 12, WFMY-DT is on 51 but it says 2, WGHP-DT is on 35 but it says 8, WUPN-DT is on 33 but it says 48, WUNL is on 32 but it says 26.

This is done to make it easier to remember channel numbers. You don't have to remember two channels for each station. The syntax is this, major channel number - minor channel number. For instance, major channel 8 minor channel 0 (8-0) denotes analog channel 8. Major channel 8, minor channel 1 denotes analog channel 8's digital channel first program stream. 8-2 denotes channel 8's digital channel program stream 2.

Since the D* guide didn't know that WTWB-DT was on, it didn't know how to map it. When you told the receiver it was an OTA only and entered 19-1, the receiver went to 19 but since the PSIP from WTWB-DT was saying 20-1, your receiver says 20-1 but it is really on 19-1 and your receiver stores that info until the next channel scan.

zmeister,
Thanks for the info. I'd just like to pull in an ABC station from Charlotte or Raleigh, and maybe I'd use it for the other locals in the Triad if the pq was any better than what's coming over TWC.

Thanks, foxeng. You're a wealth of information on this board.

Originally posted by uncrules
Thanks, foxeng. You're a wealth of information on this board.

Well I read my butt off! That helps! Of course working with this stuff everyday knida helps too! :) Thanks for the kind words.

FYI... I received an email this afternoon from TWC saying that their HD DVR's are now available. The note didnt provide much additional info.

Ohhhhh......

I may have to give TWC a phone call.:cool:

Man, they've got my e-mail........didn't happen to say Pace or SA, did it?

I called and emailed Tiffany Sutton, the CSR that usually emails me with that stuff, to schedule my installation but I haven't heard back yet. I'll post as soon as I can get my hands on it. Should definitely have it in time to record the Panthers winning the Superbowl!

They did say it was a SA.

The guys in the other forum were saying SA8000 or something with a 200GB hard drive for 20 hours of HD recording.

I hope it's better than that SA box I used to have. The Pace box is much better.

Man, I don't want to have to lose one of my pace boxes......

I'm going to help a friend try to get OTA DTV with his Hughes SAT-OTA receiver.
He lives in the Tobaccoville area. I checked Antenna Web and found that the only DTV signals in that area would be WXII - DT 12 and WUNL - DT 26. Does that sound right? He is hoping that we'll be able to pull in WFMY - DT 2 or WDBJ- DT 7 so that he'll have CBS coverage for the SUPER BOWL. Should we be able too?

We'll be using a large VHF-UHF outdoor antenna and rotor mounted on his chimney. I'll also have a pre-amp to try and help matters if needed.
Any help or recommendations are appreciated.

Originally posted by wiloliwad
I'm going to help a friend try to get OTA DTV with his Hughes SAT-OTA receiver.
He lives in the Tobaccoville area. I checked Antenna Web and found that the only DTV signals in that area would be WXII - DT 12 and WUNL - DT 26. Does that sound right? He is hoping that we'll be able to pull in WFMY - DT 2 or WDBJ- DT 7 so that he'll have CBS coverage for the SUPER BOWL. Should we be able too?

We'll be using a large VHF-UHF outdoor antenna and rotor mounted on his chimney. I'll also have a pre-amp to try and help matters if needed.
Any help or recommendations are appreciated.

From Tobaccoville he should be able to get WFMY and WDBJ as well as WXLV and WUPN. Depending on how high he is up, he should be able to get WGHP, but it will not be as strong as the rest so it may take some fine tuning to see it.

Originally posted by wiloliwad
I'm going to help a friend try to get OTA DTV with his Hughes SAT-OTA receiver.
He lives in the Tobaccoville area. I checked Antenna Web and found that the only DTV signals in that area would be WXII - DT 12 and WUNL - DT 26. Does that sound right? He is hoping that we'll be able to pull in WFMY - DT 2 or WDBJ- DT 7 so that he'll have CBS coverage for the SUPER BOWL. Should we be able too?

We'll be using a large VHF-UHF outdoor antenna and rotor mounted on his chimney. I'll also have a pre-amp to try and help matters if needed.
Any help or recommendations are appreciated.

You should get just about all of them. I wouldn't trust Antennaweb anymore; they seriously screwed up their system and don't seem to be in the mood to fix it.

- Trip

All week I've had blocking on TWC. Most pronounced on the channels my kids watch (PBSkids, Toon Disney) but it also showed up to a lesser extent on DiscHD last night.

Anyone else seeing this? TWC said they weren't aware of any system issues.

Activity in the 560's tonight. 561 is showing a hockey game. Other channels are listed, but "Not Authorized." I called the 886 number, and they said it was expected to be ready by now (the "pak") but a network issue is holding it up. Any day now...she said.:eek:

Got my SA8000 HD DVR from TWC tonight. You can read my thread over in the HD recorders forum. Bottom line, I liked the Pace box better, it was faster and I think that maybe the pq was better also, but I'm not sure.

If anyone else gets one, please look at your picture quality with a critical eye both before and after switching to the new box and let me know if you see any difference. I think I may be just over analyzing it and looking for flaws that were already there.

Oddity....Last night I'm flipping in between severe beatings to my Pack by one JJ Reddick, and flip past the 500's. There are INHD, INHD2, HDNT, and HDNM on the guide....so I call the number on the screen to subscribe, and the CSR knows nothing. So this afternoon after work I call, and get the old "it's being tested, we're not taking preorders". I go downstairs and fire up the pj and now they're all gone, except for INHD2, and it's not locked out. I watched a documentary on trains this afternoon.

Weird.

roland6465 - they turned on INHD2 last night to show the Hurricanes and as far as I can tell they just "forgot" to turn it off after the game. If you recall they had promised to show 10 Canes games on INHD2, but missed the first one (St Louis) when they shut down the two channels. After I (and I'm sure several others) called to complain, they said they'd try to get the rest of the games on.

P.S. Are you Roland on Statefans?

They're all gone on mine now, missed it last night.

Are any of you guys getting the SA8000 DVR? I don't think the picture quality is as good as the Pace box. It looks like ED now instead of HD. Just not as sharp and detailed and the colors aren't as good.

I think I might ask them for the Pace box back.

Not getting the SA DVR. Too many negatives with the SA box I had before that I'm not willing to give up my Pace box for the SA DVR.

Wolfgate...Yep, that's me. Going to the game tonight?

jacksonian.... I'm not getting the SA box. I have 2 PACE boxes and they are bettereven than the Mits 4000 I used to use w/ DirecTV.

roland6465 - yes, I'll be there. Don't miss very many.

Crap, you guys are killing me. I was so naive. I had no clue that the SA box would be a step backward in pq and features! I'm calling them up ASAP and asking for my Pace box back. I guess I'll just wait for a stand alone HD Tivo.

Fun game last night, Gate ;)

FWIW, I've still got INHD2 @ 561.

If you have anyone at WFMY's #, pleas see if they can flip the HD switch! I can't get anyone at either listed numbeer!

Hope there's a 2:55 timer on that mug!

Originally posted by roland6465
If you have anyone at WFMY's #, pleas see if they can flip the HD switch! I can't get anyone at either listed numbeer!

Hope there's a 2:55 timer on that mug!

CBS pregame is in SD, not HD, unlike FOX that does their pregame in ED.

Originally posted by roland6465
If you have anyone at WFMY's #, pleas see if they can flip the HD switch! I can't get anyone at either listed numbeer!

Hope there's a 2:55 timer on that mug!

In the future, the number I call is 379-WFMY and when the voice starts to read down the numbers enter 0 for the Newsroom and tell them and they will tell master control and switch it.

I am glad FOX does 100% simulcast so we never flip a switch, when we hit network for the analog, the DTV switches the digital network directly to the DTV transmitter every time.

Well, just have to wait 4 hours now for the opening act to finish to watch the big show at 6:45!

We have gotten a couple of calls that some people are not getting center channel. I have it here at home with my system in both DD2.0 or DD5.1.

Is anyone here having problems?

Charlie,

Don't know about OTA, but I've got the center channel just fine here via TWC.

Joe L.

I just heard that the TOC in LA is getting complaints and they think it is a mono mix issue at the game. They are working on it.

I'm so disappointed with the SA8000 box from TWC and not being able to get ABC HD because of our local Sinclair, I'm thinking hard about doing some OTA.

foxeng or others, I don't want to put anything on the roof, but I have a 3rd story attic (very big) that is directly over my theater with easy access to my gear. Do you have any suggestions for an antenna/amplifier setup?

Originally posted by jacksonian
foxeng or others, I don't want to put anything on the roof, but I have a 3rd story attic (very big) that is directly over my theater with easy access to my gear. Do you have any suggestions for an antenna/amplifier setup?

If you have the room, put up a CM 4228 and a CM 7779 pre-amp. Use good coax (RG-6) and put it on a rotor. You will loose about half signal strength because it is indoors. If you you put it outside, it will much better.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out right now.

I'm not sure if I understand the complaints about the SA boxes. I've got two of them for HDTV and one HDTV pace box. Comparing these three TV's results in no particular winner. I've had them for many months and I can see differences--but those differences are a result of the various levels of quality of the source material (movies differ from grainy to extra sharp, some "HD" channels are not really that HD, while others are crisp). Looking at the same source on Pace versus SA has never revealed any difference to me. I'm sure there are arcane tech distinctions, but I would assume that digital HD output had the same number of bytes, and the same specs, regardless of the "box" that puts it out. Only the source could vary--which it quite obviously does. But maybe I'm freaking out or something. :D

era,
I had the same thoughts going into this as you, that it's HD, it should be the same. I know the source material can vary a lot. But I used the recorder to record some Insectia from Discovery HD and The Tonight Show, which I thought generally had the sharpest HD pictures. My wife said that it just didn't look HD, that it looked like Fox ED pq.

I keep going back and trying to adjust the output settings, just knowing that I'm going to find something that I've missed, but nothing seems to make a difference. I know OTA should be better than cable anyway, but one of the guys that just got the SA8000 box said the difference between OTA and his SA box was 50% in pq.

I'm having them bring my Pace box back next Saturday. I'm going to see if the tech can stick around long enough to do an A/B test to see if there really is a difference or not. Maybe I'll turn out to be an idiot, a picture quality hypochondriac. :)

I hope you can do an A-B test. The results would be very interesting. Do you see a difference in quality when you're not recording? Or is the degraded picture just when viewing recorded material? If so, they could be seriously compressing to get 20 hours of HDTV onto a hard drive. I've been suspecting that compression must be part of the recording system--and compression can really bring down quality.:eek:

It's the same for live or recorded. I'm watching on a 106" screen, so the pq differences should be a little magnified for me.

Originally posted by era
I'm not sure if I understand the complaints about the SA boxes. I've got two of them for HDTV and one HDTV pace box. Comparing these three TV's results in no particular winner. I've had them for many months and I can see differences--but those differences are a result of the various levels of quality of the source material (movies differ from grainy to extra sharp, some "HD" channels are not really that HD, while others are crisp). Looking at the same source on Pace versus SA has never revealed any difference to me. I'm sure there are arcane tech distinctions, but I would assume that digital HD output had the same number of bytes, and the same specs, regardless of the "box" that puts it out. Only the source could vary--which it quite obviously does. But maybe I'm freaking out or something. :D

I like the pace box better because it is easier for me to stretch the screen width by using the "#" button instead of having to push a number of buttons on my MX700 when I had the SA box. It's the simplicity of the thing for me, guys!:)

Yeah, besides the pq differences, the Pace was much better at acquiring signals/channels and letting you adjust the aspect ratio.

Originally posted by foxeng
We have gotten a couple of calls that some people are not getting center channel. I have it here at home with my system in both DD2.0 or DD5.1.


Is WGHP passing 5.1? My Yamaha RXV830 doesn't sense a DD signal. All I have ever gotten through my Pace box is DPL2 processing.

I also dont get DD 5.1. I only get it on HBO and Discovery HD. Never on the networks. BTW, I am on TWC.

Me, too.

Originally posted by roland6465
Is WGHP passing 5.1? My Yamaha RXV830 doesn't sense a DD signal. All I have ever gotten through my Pace box is DPL2 processing.

Well yes and no.

The DD5.1 protocol is part of the AC3 spec so yes, it is there. But no, we do not have the Dolby (propriety stuff and only available from Dolby for BIG dollars) 5.1 encoder, so what you we send is the left and right channel (stereo is what it really is) of the DD5.1 signal since there is no way to break out the additional info for center, rears and subwoofer.

My DD decoder tells me that there is an encoded DD5.1 signal, but only the left and right channels are active so what you hear should be the same as Dolby Pro Logic Surround left and right.

Depending on how some people have their systems configured, the system may take that mono feed that is embedded in the left and right and tries to send it to a center speaker (since it sees the DD5.1 in the AC3 protocol) but since there is not encoded center channel, the DD5.1 decoder doesn't have anything to send to the center channel speaker, even though all it needs to do is just mono the left and rights channel and sent it to the center as Dolby Pro Logic Surround.

Does that make any sense?

Yes. So the network is sending 5.1, and you're sending out the L/R parts of it, which gets split up into Pro Logic 2 at my end.

The DPL2 actually sounds pretty good on my end, with crowd noise during games behind, and field noise & announcers at the front.

Originally posted by roland6465
Yes. So the network is sending 5.1, and you're sending out the L/R parts of it, which gets split up into Pro Logic 2 at my end.

Yes. that is it.

Also the Pace box allows you to pass through the input to the output without converting it to 1080i as the SA box did. That's important for me and my GWIII, since for best SD picture quality I needed to be able to adjust the palette in advanced video, a function that is disabled if the TV sees a 1080i signal.

Hey all, I just got my OTA antenna up and running in Oak Ridge. I have a channelmaster 8 bay and run it through Directv.

I can get 2, 12, 45, 26 all without turning the antenna at all. I can turn it and get UPN. I can not get Fox at all. I can also get several stations from Virginia. I have no obstructions from where I am to the fox station. Why can't I get a signal?

Thanks,

Chad

Chad,
foxeng should be able to chime in and help you soon, he works at Fox and does the OTA thing down the street off Battleground.

Can you pick up any ABC digital stations from other markets? I've been debating on adding an antenna to my TWC setup for an ABC station.

Originally posted by Capple
Hey all, I just got my OTA antenna up and running in Oak Ridge. I have a channelmaster 8 bay and run it through Directv.

I can get 2, 12, 45, 26 all without turning the antenna at all. I can turn it and get UPN. I can not get Fox at all. I can also get several stations from Virginia. I have no obstructions from where I am to the fox station. Why can't I get a signal?

Thanks,

Chad

WGHP-DT transmits on channel 35. We are running low power so you have to be pretty much on us to pick us right now. I live off Battleground at Westridge and get a pretty decent signal (not strong but steady) with the same antenna (Channel Master 4228 8 bow-tie) at 15 ft off the ground with an antenna booster located at the antenna. The channel 35 transmitter is located at the channel 8 transmitter at Randleman with the antenna at 900 ft.

Oak Ridge is fairly high ground but it is right on the edge of our current coverage area, but I would think you should get something. You may have to do a little experimenting to pick our digital signal up. You didn't say if you had an antenna booster (also known as a pre-amplifier) or not. If not, you will definitely need it.

I am hearing that when FOX goes 720p this fall (the network is scheduled to start 720p along side the current 480p in August) that any FOX network programming that has DD5.1 will be able to be passed along to the viewer whether the station has a DD encoder or not. This means that viewers of WGHP-DT will be able to have DD5.1 when a FOX network program has DD5.1 encoded with it. Local programming will still be DD2.0

Thanks for the reply. I do have an antenna booster on it, but can not receive the signal. It will flash up every now and again but nothing steady. Are there any plans to boost the power at your station any time soon?

"Capple
I do have an antenna booster on it, but can not receive the signal. It will flash up every now and again but nothing steady"

Try adjusting the gain on your antenna booster. I live in north Greensboro and use a CM 4228 with a pre-amp. I found that when I turned the gain down WGHP-DT locked in steady.
ww

Originally posted by Capple
Thanks for the reply. I do have an antenna booster on it, but can not receive the signal. It will flash up every now and again but nothing steady. Are there any plans to boost the power at your station any time soon?

We have no immediate plans to increase power but we will eventually.

roland, Pam, any of you folks that were following my problems with the SA8000 DVR box, here's an update:

The TWC contractor came out yesterday. When I told him the pq was bad, he said he knew already. He said he'd been un-installing a bunch of them a couple of days after he put them in. Apparently other people are having the same problem. He said it was a software problem and that they may have a fix in a month or so.

As soon as he put the Pace box back in the rack the pq was back to WOW. It's the difference between wow HD and dvd quality. Maybe they messed up the software and it's only outputting 480, I don't know.

So I would hold off on getting the DVR until they've worked out the pq problem. If they email you about it's availability, please tell them you've heard about the pq problems and that you'd love to have one as soon as they are fixed. That might motivate them to get on it. Those boxes cost $1300, so if they're all sitting in the warehouse unused, that will light a fire.

That's interesting about the TWC box. My Sony HDTV displays the resolution as soon as you switch channels to a different res. so I would be curious to see what the SA box does. On two of my HDTV's I have the SA Explorer 3100HD box, and on one the Pace. Frankly, I don't notice any difference in PQ between the various units.

era,
I had the SA3100 before I got the Pace box. There was no difference between the two for pq. This is a software problem with the SA8000 HD-DVR as best I can figure and nothing to do with SA in general. The Pace box has benefits like the pass through and the AR controls and it changes HD channels faster, but pq wasn't the big deal.

What does "AR" mean?

Originally posted by era
What does "AR" mean?

Aspect ratio?

yup, with the pace you can just hit the # button to adjust zoom, stretch, etc...you can't do anything with the SA box, it was fixed, at least my 3100 was when I had it.

jacksonian,

Thanks for the update on the DVR - I'll wait for a while before I go that route. Let us know if and when you get a good one!

I saw on the TWC guide last night the 4 new HD channels (part of their pay package). Wasn't able to call and see if it was available for activation yet.

Has anyone gotten it yet?

YEah, I called. Nobody knew what it was about as usual.

I'm figuring it's going to be 2/1/04.

roland - Did you put in a request to add ESPNHD as well? I always do that whenever I talk to them about their HD programming. Figure the more they hear it, the better.

Yeah, I always do, and I asked for WUPN & WTWB on the local digital tier.

Originally posted by roland6465
Yeah, I always do, and I asked for WUPN & WTWB on the local digital tier.

Why? They aren't in HD and probably won't be for a while...

- Trip

WB 20 on analog #3 is unwatchable on my 106" screen. At least the digital feed, if I recall from my OTA days, isn't like watching old VHS.

I have to have my hour of That 70's Show, ya know.

I wonder if the new HD "Pak" of four channels will be as repetitive as the UNCH and Discovery channels...

I can understand that HD recordings are fairly new, but there are some HD cameras that aren't very expensive at all. If I see "Canadian Rivers" or "Insectia" listed again, I think I might go quite stark barking mad. They're good shows--but once or twice is enough. Not dozens of times per week.:p

era,
I think everyone agrees with your frustration. But HD is so new that they're still trying to use "showcase" material. You know, I MISS the old PBS demo loop of the islands of Greece and Italy, etc...I liked that better than some of the horrible reenacted pilgrim dramas they show now. I think the channels on the HD Pak will have plenty of variety. I'm glad to see the competition from Voom and others. I was afraid it was all going to be multi-casting SD, but it looks like the competition is pushing most of the programming to HD. Soap operas are in HD now.

I agree. Yes that flyover of Greece was lovely. I've heard that Voom compromises picture quality, though. Anyway, sooner or later I expect that people will migrate to HDTV, even if "ED" or some other lesser quality format competes. Perhaps there will be some bandwidth expansion in the future (as there always has been in the past).

Originally posted by era
I agree. Yes that flyover of Greece was lovely. I've heard that Voom compromises picture quality, though. Anyway, sooner or later I expect that people will migrate to HDTV, even if "ED" or some other lesser quality format competes. Perhaps there will be some bandwidth expansion in the future (as there always has been in the past).

I've had VOOM since late November and the picture quality is excellent! The box is somewhat slow when changing channels and there have been cases of lockups but there is a software update pending to fix many of these issues.

zmeister,
Tell me what you think of the Voom programming. Most of those channels I hadn't heard of before. I've been thinking about adding Voom.

I meantioned in an earlier post that FOX was getting ready to do 720p. Here is the wording from the FOX sat page:

"FOX SPLICING SYSTEM HIGHLIGHTS

FOX has decided to supply its DTV affiliates with an HDTV MPEG Splicer System for the HD feed starting next September.

Splicing is a new form of video switching. The Splicer substitutes for the traditional video switcher in Master Control when switching (“splicing”) between MPEG streams of audio and video. The FOX Splicer System will also include a logo inserter capable of HD branding during non-Network time as well as Network time.

Splicing between MPEG streams, rather than the traditional switching of digital video, especially in the HD environment, will save significant capital monies and bandwidth for Stations and the Network.

Here are some highlights of the FOX Splicer System:

1. FOX will provide, install and maintain the Splicer at its cost as it does for the existing satellite equipment.

2. Stations are always in direct, positive control of what goes on their air.

3. Minimizes cost of HD conversion of Station’s Master Control.

4. More cost effective when the Station’s satellite dish is remote from its Master Control.

5. Delayed broadcast HD equipment becomes very cost effective.

6. Without any further capital expenditure Stations will be able to broadcast Network Dolby Digital (digital 5.1 surround sound).

7. Local and Network branding of HD stream included within Splicer.

8. Network branding will be customized for each affiliate.

9. Bandwidth is preserved for other applications.

10. FOX will continue Mountain Time Zone feed."


For those who want more technical info:

"Guide to Fox Splicing System
Introduction
As you know, FOX announced, "*at least one half of its prime time schedule will be in HD next season*.". Today, FOX announces that it will deploy the FOX Splicer System to affiliated Stations in order that they can pass FOX in HD on to viewers. This deployment will begin in March in anticipation of a September start for HD on FOX.

The FOX Splicer System will allow a Station to "splice" between FOX's 720p feed delivered via the Wegner receiver and its own, local, 720p ATSC encoder.

The System will also include a logo inserter that will be capable of branding during Station, as well as Network time.

The System will accommodate secondary programs and data transmissions. And since the Network's feed will be "ATSC Broadcast ready" all shows produced in Dolby Digital will be enjoyed by viewers without the need for Stations to purchase Dolby 5.1 encoders.
Overview
The Splicer within the System has the capability of inserting logos over the output stream without requiring the decoding of the 720p MPEG stream back to baseband (HD-SDI). The Splicer will be under local station control via a general purpose interface (GPI). In addition to switching and logo insertion, the FOX Splicer System will ensure that the Program System Information Protocol (PSIP) is correct and allows for secondary programs to be transmitted.

Fox will begin the rollout of equipment to the affiliate stations starting in March 2004. Fox has contracted with Thomson/Grass Valley to provide all wiring, installation and checkout of the network equipment. The equipment being supplied will be assembled and tested at their Nevada City location prior to shipping to Stations.

Beginning in August 2004, FOX will begin 720p transmissions alongside the normal Fox Widescreen transmissions during Prime Time. During this period, stations will transition from FOX Widescreen to HD on FOX using the System.

For DTV Stations that have not had their Splicer System installed, checked out, or their DTV facilities fully commissioned FOX will continue to deliver all it's Prime Time programming in both FOX Widescreen (480p) as well as HD (720p). FOX will continue delivering sports programming in FOX Widescreen.

What Station will need to do to prepare for installation:

Stations will need to establish a primary contact person that FOX and Thomson can communicate with to schedule the installation as well as facilitate a successful installation. A survey is being sent to your station and will need to be filled out and returned as soon as possible including the contact persons name, phone number, email and mail address.

The FOX Splicer System is designed to fit into the bottom (8) rack units of the FOX Network Digital Satellite System equipment enclosure. If the Station has installed its own equipment in that space, we request that you relocate this prior to installation of the Splicer System. The Station will need to provide access to a standard analog telephone line in order to be able to setup and diagnose any problems with the Splicer System. This telephone line can be shared with the existing FOX Network Digital Satellite System.

Standard video/ASI and control cables will be needed to interface to the FOX Splicer System. A one line drawing and more detailed System description will be forthcoming.

The Station's ATSC encoder will need to operate at 720p59.94 (hp @ hl). Of course, and to the extent a Station does not produce its own shows in HD, its Master Control output must be converted to 720p as well. While it is possible to splice seamlessly between any possible Station format (480i, 1080i, etc) and FOX's format, it is not recommended. Most DTV receivers in viewer's homes take several seconds to accommodate such format changes during which no picture or sound are displayed.

There are more details about Audio services and PSIP that will be included in a more detailed transmission.

Finally, the FOX Splicer System will install most easily if the FOX Network Digital Satellite System, the Station's Master Control, and its ATSC Encoder are colocated. FOX will assist Station's with the design of link facilities among or between remote sites as the case may be. However, as is the current policy for analog and FOX Widescreen links, the procurement, installation, and maintenance of such links is the responsibility of the Station.

What Thomson will do:

Thomson/GVG will contact the Station weeks in advance to coordinate an installation date. When the installation date approaches, Thomson will contact the person nominated by the Station to coordinate their visit, ascertain the Station's operating parameters and arrange for Station personnel to work with the Thomson installation crew. We anticipate the installation to take no more than one day.

During the installation visit, the Thomson personnel will verify correct Splicer System operation prior to connecting to the station's DTV transmitter. To confirm all is in order, FOX will be sending test transmissions over the FOX Network Digital Satellite System during normal business hours for use in installation commissioning.

At the successful completion of the installation and testing, the Station's authorized representative will sign off on a completion report that will be sent back to FOX. "

Now you know as much as I do!

Excellent, so 720p in September?

Originally posted by jacksonian
zmeister,
Tell me what you think of the Voom programming. Most of those channels I hadn't heard of before. I've been thinking about adding Voom.

As of right now the jury is still out until they deliver all of their promised channels. The Cinema 10 movie screen is a little repetitive at the moment but as more movies are transferred to HD, hopefully this will change. Monsters HD and Epics HD are pretty cool. Rave music does have some good HD videos, I watch ULTRA to check out the runway models ;), RUSH has a lot of X game stuff. Gallery is art, Treasures is kind of Road show type of stuff, auctions etc. Worldsport is soccer whcih looks good, most of the games are taped but live games are coming! MOOV is pretty much useless.

THey also offer Starz HD, TMC HD, SHOWTIME HD, love my NFLNetwork HD. EPSN, HBO, INHD 1&2, BRAVO HD, SPICE & PLAYBOY HD are forthcoming!

As far as my viewing tastes go, I watch primarily sports and movies in HD. I just felt that cable and the DELAY twins Direct and DISH were just not stepping up and delivering HD as they have promised. VOOM offers more HD right from the start and I decided to give them a chance.

As of 6:04pm tonight, I have INHD 1&1, HDNet & HDNet Movies!

TWC's website (http://triadtwcable.com/cableserv/hdpack.htm) changed today, no longer showing "Coming Soon", so I called, and I hooked it up!

There's a great Chick Corea show on right now...enjoy!

Yaaaaay! I have my HDNet back!

Is thier anyone in the Triad that does ISF that you guys recomend?

Originally posted by akdude47
Is thier anyone in the Triad that does ISF that you guys recomend?

There is a company in Winston-Salem, but I can't remember the name. I am sure someone else here knows who I am talking about.

roland,
Thanks for the heads up, I gotta go call!

EDIT: Call made, channels added, oh yeah, more HD baby!

Brent

I'm glad they finally added those channels! Is the programming worth the extra $$$?

It's $7 a month. You'll have to decide if it's worth it for you. For me it more than double the amount of 24/7 HD I had before, so yes, it's worth it. A lot of it is still repetitive, and every channel is going to be until we get more cameras and programming, but there is some amazing stuff on here. And by all accounts, HDNet has some of the best quality HD on TV so far.

Originally posted by jacksonian
It's $7 a month. You'll have to decide if it's worth it for you. For me it more than double the amount of 24/7 HD I had before, so yes, it's worth it. A lot of it is still repetitive, and every channel is going to be until we get more cameras and programming, but there is some amazing stuff on here. And by all accounts, HDNet has some of the best quality HD on TV so far.

I personally like the HDNet World Report. It is a news magazine, but they have some very interesting material. They have been to Iraq many times since the war and the pictures from there are just awesome! Really get a sense of what our guys are dealing with other there. The current one on the picking of a new Pope is quite interesting.

If you are into 70's eye candy, check out "Charlie's Angels" (the original ABC series transfered to HD) on Monday nights and "Hogan's Hero's" (I like Burkhalters "fake" scar!)

Originally posted by akdude47
Is there anyone in the Triad that does ISF that you guys recommend?
You can find ISF-trained personnel through http://www.imagingscience.com. I used Audio Video One in Winston-Salem. I was disappointed that he didn't spend more time than he did on convergence, so you should get an understanding up front on that.

Originally posted by foxeng
If you are into 70's eye candy, check out "Charlie's Angels" (the original ABC series transfered to HD) on Monday nights...

Oh my God, Cheryl Ladd in her prime in HD? This is going to bring back my childhood crush on her.

Why, oh why couldn't they have gotten the SA8000 DVR to work right from the start?!

Originally posted by jacksonian
Oh my God, Cheryl Ladd in her prime in HD? This is going to bring back my childhood crush on her.

Why, oh why couldn't they have gotten the SA8000 DVR to work right from the start?!

You got PLENTY of time. They haven't finished first season yet.

So I haven't missed the episode where Farrah and Cheryl are both on there and meet up on the beach? That's the greatest all time episode of any show. :)

Originally posted by zmeister
I've had VOOM since late November and the picture quality is excellent! The box is somewhat slow when changing channels and there have been cases of lockups but there is a software update pending to fix many of these issues.
zmeister, are you using the Channel Master Stealth antenna supplied with VOOM? What locals are you receiving through the VOOM receiver? Thanks.

Originally posted by jacksonian
So I haven't missed the episode where Farrah and Cheryl are both on there and meet up on the beach? That's the greatest all time episode of any show. :)

No. it is still just the orginal three. They are running one episode a week (even though it is repeated several times in a week) and it appears to be in order of shooting since some of the first ones they have shown, the pilot first then the rest, you see the friendship building.

Originally posted by akdude47
Is thier anyone in the Triad that does ISF that you guys recomend?

akdude47,
I recently used Audio Advice in Raleigh. I believe the guy did a good job, he certainly took plenty of time doing the convergence. I would highly recommend. Of course, travel time is a significant part of the cost.
Jim

Did any one other than me have trouble picking up WXII's HD programming last night (Feb. 3)? I'm on TWC-Greensboro and had no trouble tuning into any other HD content, but for some reason all of the WXII HD content came through as SD. I have a new SA 8000HD DVR and was worried that it might be the culprit, until I realized that all other HD channels were coming in perfectly. I noticed that right at 8:00 pm when I assume the SD feed was supposed to switch to HD feed, that an irritating buzz came out of my HDTV speakers while tuned to WXII-D and the feed stayed 4:3.

Hey jacksonian,

Did you catch Charlie's Angels on HDNet Monday night? If so, what did you think of the PQ?

:( No, I missed it because of work. I've put it on my calendar for next week, but I'll have to fight with my wife because the Dog Show is going to be on in HD also.

Originally posted by compson
zmeister, are you using the Channel Master Stealth antenna supplied with VOOM? What locals are you receiving through the VOOM receiver? Thanks.


No! Actually I never got the Stealth. I've got several antennae anyway and had no intention of using it. One of the problems VOOM has had is a major lack of communication with their installers. THe OTA module was not included in the original install and neither was the antenna. I did get the OTA at a later date. BTW if you do get VOOM the guy out of Salisbury John Ross was his name seemed to have a pretty good handle on the install.

The other problem with VOOM is that the OTA channels are not added by scanning but rather by mapping using your zip code. The channels that are pegged to my zip are WFMY, WLXI, WXII, WGHP, WXLV, and PBS26. You can call in to get your mapping fixed to add other channels like the triangle stations that I normally watch but there is supposed to by a software update to allow you to scan for channels soon. This is not a problem for me since I use other tuners.

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
akdude47,
I recently used Audio Advice in Raleigh. I believe the guy did a good job, he certainly took plenty of time doing the convergence. I would highly recommend. Of course, travel time is a significant part of the cost.
Jim

I have to agree! I've been dealing with Audio Advice for several years now and have found them to be excellent. They intalled my projector and screen a few years back and I've been pleased so far.

Have they fixed the picture quality problem with the Scientific Atlanta recorder box yet?

Haven't heard anything back from them yet. I'll email today.

Originally posted by era
Have they fixed the picture quality problem with the Scientific Atlanta recorder box yet?
I received my SA 8000HD DVR box the day before the Super Bowl. Although I can't compare it with the pq with other boxes (I'm an HD newbie), the pq on the 8000HD is astounding. I can't imagine it getting any better. I've also time-shifted some HD content, and they look great also.

Hmmm, maybe they got it fixed. It's tough to know though if you didn't have any prior experience. What are you watching on? Did you get to see the Janet Jackson halftime incident in slow-mo HiDef replay with the DVR?

Originally posted by jacksonian
Hmmm, maybe they got it fixed. It's tough to know though if you didn't have any prior experience. What are you watching on? Did you get to see the Janet Jackson halftime incident in slow-mo HiDef replay with the DVR?

I've got a new Sony 42" KF42WE610. I still have Janet (and the rest of the Super Bowl) on my hard drive in HD.

What was/is the specific problem with the SA box? I can look more closely for it tonight.

Well, it's tough to explain. The picture on the SA box looked good, but it was more of 480p quality than 1080i quality. It looked about like the Fox Enhanced definition picture. I had the SA3100 and the PACE 550 before it and the picture was jaw dropping with things like Discovery HD theater. When I hooked up the SA8000, it just didn't have the clarity and detail of the other boxes. My wife even noticed it instantly, she said, "That's not HD."

I called TWC and had them take it back and bring me my PACE 550 box back out. You could instantly see the difference when it was back in. The contractor for TWC said he had installed several of them and then had to go back a couple of days later and take them out for the same reason. He and I thought it must be a software glitch either in the box or at the head end. I've heard that TWC hasn't rolled it out all over the state yet because of some of these bugs. It's possible that you got one with a new firmware or software version.

I just emailed my CSR at TWC. She doesn't know anything technical but said she'd pass my email on to the technical operations manager. I'll let you guys know what I hear.

Unfortunately, I forgot to check the setup menu to find out exactly which firmware/software version I had before I sent it back.

Brent

Do you know how to access the setup menu? If so, I can check my software and firmware versions tonight and report back. True 1080i HD stuff (i.e. the Super Bowl, Leno, NBA, Discovery HD) look absolutely amazing with my box and are head-and-shoulders better than Fox's 480p stuff like "24".

I've asked one of the guys who has shown his on this forum. I'll see if I can get an answer today.

It sounds like yours is working correctly. If you can tell a big difference between Fox ED and the 1080i stuff, then that's correct. I couldn't tell much if any difference between the 1080i stuff and a DVD even.

Thanks so much for posting. I hope it was a simple software fix and I can get mine back! It's killing me that I didn't get the Extreme Martial Arts, Sting and Beyonce concerts recorded Sunday.

FTM,
Here's the instructions I got from another forum member. Please let me know what you find out.

Just press and hold the center "select" button on the unit itself until the message light start flashing; then release and press "Info" button. To navigate, use left and right buttons, "Exit" to exit.

Here's the info I got from the service menu:

OS: Home Server Edition 1.3
Flash: 1.82.4.0
Apps: SARA v. 1.82.4.0

BTW, it has a Maxtor 160 GB hard drive.

Thanks for the help! Boy, I wish I'd written mine down. I'll ask the CSR to ask the technical guy if that's a new Flash or SARA version.

Originally posted by jacksonian
Thanks for the help! Boy, I wish I'd written mine down. I'll ask the CSR to ask the technical guy if that's a new Flash or SARA version.

There was another page in the setup menu that had what appeared to be dates for various software/firmware components. There were several of them, but unfortunately I did not have time to write them all down. If my memory is correct, all of the dates were in the Oct. through Dec. 2003 time-frame.

Do you know how many hours of HD recording you can put on that Maxtor 160G hard drive? Also, are there any options for recording at less high-quality? In other words, if you record an ordinary standard-def show, what happens? Does it still use up the same bandwidth as HDTV, or does the unit sense the lower quality, and reduce the amount of space used on the hard drive?

I'm pretty sure it does about 19 hours of all HD, it does use less space for SD and you could record 100+ hours of SD I believe.

Since we are talking about DVR's, I have heard that D* will be swapping out all its receivers with DVR/receiver combo's. D* has ordered 20 million DVR's (fact) and the basic DVR will be no charge and if you want extra features, there will be a small monthly charge. No word on when it will start but guess is late spring or early summer.

I love this competition. TWC is really fighting hard with D* for business. This is pushing things faster than they've ever moved with cable or satellite!

Originally posted by foxeng
Since we are talking about DVR's, I have heard that D* will be swapping out all its receivers with DVR/receiver combo's. D* has ordered 20 million DVR's (fact) and the basic DVR will be no charge and if you want extra features, there will be a small monthly charge. No word on when it will start but guess is late spring or early summer.

foxeng,
Are you saying that they will replace my new Sony HD 300 receiver with another unit? Mine is one of the first units delivered last fall and has OTA reception problems. Sony has scheduled to do a temporary swap within the next week to do a hardware/software upgrade. It will be an interesting development that just when the manufacturers get the technology right, D* does a mandatory change out of everything.

I have another older Sony unit that has the RF remote feature and am currently looking on e-bay for a second unit with that feature. I would assume that they will change those units as well with units with that feature.

Are you aware of a public announcement of this development?

Jim

Originally posted by Jim Hewett
foxeng,
Are you saying that they will replace my new Sony HD 300 receiver with another unit? Mine is one of the first units delivered last fall and has OTA reception problems. Sony has scheduled to do a temporary swap within the next week to do a hardware/software upgrade. It will be an interesting development that just when the manufacturers get the technology right, D* does a mandatory change out of everything.

I have another older Sony unit that has the RF remote feature and am currently looking on e-bay for a second unit with that feature. I would assume that they will change those units as well with units with that feature.

Are you aware of a public announcement of this development?

Jim

The only public announcements have been that DirecTV will be doing what E* does and "sell" their own DirecTV brand receivers (translated, D* will private label from all the current vendors) and has ordered 20 million DVR's from NDS and TiVo. D* only has 12 million customers. You don't don't place a one time order almost double your subscriber base without plans to do a complete change out.

Now I am hearing rumblings and the following thread in the HD Programming section says basically what I am hearing. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=361512&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

I am personally going to wait to see what the deal is (is it a straight swap out or will I have to pay some) before I buy anything else. My guess would be that the SD stuff will get swapped out for free and the HD will have to pay a little. OTA DTV tuner will be standard in all receivers would be another guess but definately in the HD boxes. I would also guess that this would start in the late spring or early summer (they have to build all these boxes first and that takes time) so it isn't so long to wait. But (in my opinion and not as an employee of News Corp) the ultimate goal of D* is to place a DVR in EVERY home to compete with cable VOD and (dare I even say it) do away with PPV as we know it?! (more bandwidth?! I can only hope that is true!)

Anyway, that is my guess/info/rumors.

I have 5 receivers. 3 of them are various types of RCAs and 2 of them are the Samsung HD SIR-TS160s. Would they replace all 5 and would I get 2 HD DVRs? I understand you may not all of the answers but I don't want to give up my HD receivers for non HD receivers and if they are HD DVRs they better have the OTA tuner like you mentioned. I can get all of the local digital/HD channels at anywhere from 63% and up signal strength without moving the antenna at all. I don't want to lose the seamlessly ability I have to tune to these channels. They integrate nicely into the program guide and channel listings along with the D* channels.

Originally posted by uncrules
I have 5 receivers. 3 of them are various types of RCAs and 2 of them are the Samsung HD SIR-TS160s. Would they replace all 5 and would I get 2 HD DVRs? I understand you may not all of the answers but I don't want to give up my HD receivers for non HD receivers and if they are HD DVRs they better have the OTA tuner like you mentioned. I can get all of the local digital/HD channels at anywhere from 63% and up signal strength without moving the antenna at all. I don't want to lose the seamlessly ability I have to tune to these channels. They integrate nicely into the program guide and channel listings along with the D* channels.

There has been nothing offically announced so I really don't have any info at all. All I know is what I have posted here. That is why I am not buying anything else until it comes out so I will know how to jump.

foxeng:

I finally watched a newscast the other night from your new set. The new plasmas & studio setup look great. Did you get new digital cameras, too? The picture looks real good blown up to about 85" in 4x3 on my 8700 from TWC #510. Definately the sharpest detail of any of the newscasts on the digital tier, but not as sharp as WFMY's live HD from CBS.

As eye-popping as CBS 1080i upconverted to 720p on my pj looks on my DIY screen right now, I am giddy to see straight 720p live HD football from you guys in the Fall in a dedicated room on a 106" Da-Lite!!!!

Originally posted by roland6465
foxeng:

I finally watched a newscast the other night from your new set. The new plasmas & studio setup look great. Did you get new digital cameras, too? The picture looks real good blown up to about 85" in 4x3 on my 8700 from TWC #510. Definately the sharpest detail of any of the newscasts on the digital tier, but not as sharp as WFMY's live HD from CBS.

As eye-popping as CBS 1080i upconverted to 720p on my pj looks on my DIY screen right now, I am giddy to see straight 720p live HD football from you guys in the Fall in a dedicated room on a 106" Da-Lite!!!!

No, it is the same cameras, but the lighting is COMPLETELY different (we purchased a whole new lighting package and fixtures) and that forces the cameras to be set up differently (they are digital though so that helps in the quality). Since our production switcher is a 480i SDI digital, we route the "raw" SDI video and audio straight to the DT transmitter during the news for the best quality so that is why during squeezebacks, you do not see the squeezeback on the DT side during the newscasts. You are seeing the set as we see it in the studio on the DT side. Plus, since you have a native 720p projector, you are looking at our upconverted 480i SDI digital signal natively since I recently switched the encoder to 720p in anticipation of HD this fall. When you are watching our newscast, you are looking at digital all the way through. No analog on the DT side. WFMY's newscasts are just analog upconverted and that is why ours looks so much sharper even though it is only 480i digital upconverted. I do think the set was designed for 16:9, but our 1996 cameras can't be retrofitted to 16:9 because they stopped making the retrofit kit 3 years ago when they came out with a new model that was switchable 4:3 and 16:9.

Glad you like the look of the new set. We are pretty excited about it too. It allows us to do things we couldn't do before with the other set. The same people who designed the sets for Good Day Live and FOX Sports designed and built this one, DBI Designs. You can go to their website and see the different sets they have built and you can see the different elements of ours scattered throughout. It was kinda weird to see it in real life because last August they showed the staff computer drawn pictures of it, and I will be damned it the real thing looks EXACTLY like those computer drawn pictures right down to the feathering of the paint on the monitor wall in the Weather Center! BDI has several workshops around the country that actually builds the sets and one of those workshops is in Winston-Salem! Now those guys are good!

The set has 3 HD monitors (and 25 other monitors that vary in size from 13 to 20 in SD monitors), two 65 in Mits RP's in the Weather Center and "franchise area" or the area that has the ticker above the monitor and the plasma behind the main desk is a Sony 42 in plasma. If you look behind the main desk, behind the frosted glass behind the male anchor, the old 110 in video wall is there now showing a loop of scenes around the Triad. The 50 in monitor that had been in the old Sports Center is behind the female anchor behind the other frosted glass. The old 50 in monitor that was in what we internally called "McDesk" or the second desk that was used for interviews is behind what we internally call the "Soft Set" or the riser that has the 4 plush chairs in front of the glass book shelves. The old Weather Center monitor is a spare for the other 50 in monitors since those are all SD and are 1995 models.

Originally posted by roland6465
As eye-popping as CBS 1080i upconverted to 720p on my pj looks on my DIY screen right now, I am giddy to see straight 720p live HD football from you guys in the Fall in a dedicated room on a 106" Da-Lite!!!!

Roland,
I'm watching with a Panasonic AE500 1280x720 pj on a 106" Da-Lite HCCV screen. I'd love to see your BenQ sometime. I'd gladly pay admission. I've been considering upgrading to something like the BenQ for better shadow detail and blacks.

Sure, but it's going to be toward the end of summer before the room is finished. But we'll work something out then.

Oooh, the 8710 might be out by then, right? Or rumors of new 1920x1080 LCD's starting. Aahh, upgraditits.

There is NO WAY the 8710 is in my future. I'll have to be "stuck" with the 8700 for quite a while. Darn. ;)

Based on what I've read in this thread and another thread dealing specifically with the new SA8000HD, I understand that TWC-Greensboro has not yet activated the DVI port on the box. Assuming that TWC does in fact activate the DVI output (or "beams" any other software updates to the boxes), how are we end users notified? Does TWC use the message indicator light on the box to alert users of software changes? TIA.

I got the HDTV "pak" from TWC. Somebody warned about sparse programming -- lots of repetition. Yes, true. I'm hoping they can add more variety and more channels soon. Otherwise, I'm considering "va-va" VOOM!

But some of the shows are gorgeous, it's true (Wilde Blue Yonder, her hair turned quite gold with grief, and Copper Canyon, for example).

Also, have they fixed the problems with the HDTV DVR yet for us TWC HDTV customers? I'd like to get one when they work right...

Thanks.:D

Are they still only charging $5 a month for the DVR?

fairtomiddlin,
They don't tell you. I just found out from another user that the DVI on the Pace box has been active for months. I hadn't tried it because the told me it wasn't active.

era,
I'm enjoying the Dog Show, Hot Lines, Charlie's Angels, all kinds of stuff on the HD Pak. It's not great, but it's cheap. And I hear that the Voom programming is extremely lame. I'm still emailing on the SA8000 problems, will post as soon as I hear.

akdude,
Yep.

Originally posted by era
I got the HDTV "pak" from TWC. Somebody warned about sparse programming -- lots of repetition. Yes, true. I'm hoping they can add more variety and more channels soon. Otherwise, I'm considering "va-va" VOOM!

Other than the in house movie channels, VOOM has the same HD channels (well actually less at this point.) so for $800 to get in to VOOM, you really aren't getting amything more than you have now.

I've got the HD Pack too. Hey TWC, go ahead and "finish negotiations" and add ESPNHD to that thing! That would make the money worth it (even with the limited programming).

It's almost enough to drive me to satellite, I tell ya!