Just curious, was electric power savings with 8 versus 35 a big factor in choosing to go back to 8?

No. We are at 11.5kw We are not convinced 18.75 will do any better at this point.

Just curious, was electric power savings with 8 versus 35 a big factor in choosing to go back to 8?

From a technical operations as opposed to the production viewpoint and somewhat simplistic:

We must understand that a television station is a business and the overall costs of operation are always a concern. The recurring costs of operation that include salaries, monthly facility maintenance and, of course, power are watched closely by the accounting department. The station must pay for these regularly.

Next we need to broadcast our signal to the viewers, We have all kinds of studies by polling companies telling us who they are, where they are and how many are watching. We know they ultimately pay for our operating costs plus a reasonable profit through support of our sponsors. Since we are required by law to operate in the interest of that viewing public, it behooves us to provide these important people with the best possible product.

Now to the delicate balance imposed by the DTV transition.

There's that all important choice of the RF channel. Some pertinent questions:

a) Does our present analog channel exhibit characteristics for adequate coverage of our licensed service area considering the geography, topography and demographics?

b) Is the answer to item a verified in the field?

c) What other available channel might serve us better? How much coverage will we lose or gain?

d) What do the engineering studies reveal for our choice of channel?

e) What other empirical data can affect confidence in our choices?


Now for each viable channel, the equipments:

a) How much of our current technical equipment can we employ for our digital station; transmitters, tower structures, transmission lines, test equipment.

b) What are the costs to modify/ refurbish existing equipment?

c) Is the acquisition cost of new equipment recoverable though increased revenue from our sponsors?

d) How reliable is the proposed equipment?

e) What is the cost of maintenance?

f) What is the lifetime cost of ownership?

g) What is the cost of power?

So we go through combinations/permutations of all these factors, most not being mutually exclusive. We determine what fits into the company budget and long range goals. Then we make a decision

Of course if we missed a factor that wasn't considered or not given enough weight in the analysis, that can be bad. If it turns out that everything works as expected and our power bill is reduced .. then that's good.

I guess one might write a MBA thesis on this matter.

--- CHAS

Just curious, was electric power savings with 8 versus 35 a big factor in choosing to go back to 8?

No, that was not.

Back in 2005, when FOX owned us, they did a study on which channel would be better for us, 8 or 35. Their research showed that 8 would perform better than 35. Not all FOX O & O's went back to VHF. About half stayed UHF. It just depended on the market. Also at the time, we were looking at more power than we have now and as time went on, the FCC continued to drop power on post transition VHF channels. We were originally looking at around 20 kw in 2005 but only got 11.5 kw when the actual permit was issued March 2008.

What is happening now is the data the FCC requires stations to use to determine power appears to be very close for UHF digital, but way off on VHF digital. The VHF results are not matching the data. The FCC doesn't know why. This is not a unique problem to WGHP but nationwide. Many stations are reporting the same problems. NYC, Washington, DC, Chicago, are the main major markets having VHF problems along with all the markets here in NC to various degrees with Raleigh/Durham appearing to have it worse than we do and Asheville/Spartanburg about as bad as us, but they have 2 VHF stations there, 7 and 13 and downeast not as bad. No one knows why that is, yet.

From my standpoint, there appears to be a few patterns developing.

a. People purchasing (for whatever reason) UHF only antennas (some of that being in the marketing and the FCC has begun a list of manufactures who have questionable marketing;
b. indoor antennas;
c. localized noise from FM (converter boxes are not required as analog TVs were to have a FM trap on the input;
d. power density from the station itself (lower power).

I also suspect a fair number of complaints are from people who have their main TV on cable or sat and have a spare room TV with rabbit ears who don't want to run an extra line to the spare room TV. Now we have also heard from people who do not have cable or sat who have lost coverage with outside VHF antennas well within our coverage area.

Honestly, the number of complaints we have received has been overwhelming to deal with this week (phones have been continuously ringing and email coming in at astronomical rates (over 150 to ME alone between noon and midnight on Monday), if you add all of that together it is still less than one percent of our viewing audience. So does that mean that people are just living without us and just not telling us or is the issue, not as bad as it seems. These are some of the issues we are dealing with at this point. We do not have the answers yet.

Like I said, we are looking at all angles. We are not going to make a knee jerk reaction. We have to to be able to make the correct decision. I don't expect a decision for a while as we do more experimentation and work with the FCC and viewers. Some have already criticized us for turning on 35 again and punishing those who were ready. No matter what we do, someone is not going to like it. That is life, but we are looking at everything to minimize any disruption in service since answers are in short supply right now.

The factory guy will be hear starting tomorrow to finish the conversion of the main transmitter to digital and while he is here, we are going to have him look at the transmitter we have on the air to see if we have missed anything. If we have, the 4 sets of eyes that have been on it so far, can't see it.

FM Trap has been brought up a few times here, so I thought I'd ask -- my Winegard preamp has an FM trap. I believe that -- in the past -- the FM trap was to be enabled if one saw a "herringbone" pattern on the screen. That's now moot, since one won't see such an image on digital...correct? So, can someone provide technical pointers as to when the FM trap should be enabled/disabled? For example, is there a relationship between a nearby FM station on a particular frequency causing interference in the reception of a TV station on a particular RF channel?

Thanks!

Eric

... So does that mean that people are just living without us and just not telling us or is the issue, not as bad as it seems...


FWIW...as I read & learn more from you fine folks, I'm also passing the info on to my friends & family members who've had similar issues. Most of them are quite a bit less comfy with researching the internet/working thru tech issues than I am. For the record, since the switch, everyone I've spoken to with a DTV converter has experienced degraded FOX8 reception to some degree. None of them were using a quality outdoor antenna.


I've yet to catch the on-air discussions on FOX8 regarding this, however, though no fault of you station's, it seems a bit like Catch 22. Those who can't receive a signal don't get the benefit of the news segments discussing this issue. And those that DO have a signal, for the most part, are not the target audience for the segments...

I've yet to catch the on-air discussions on FOX8 regarding this, however, though no fault of you station's, it seems a bit like Catch 22. Those who can't receive a signal don't get the benefit of the news segments discussing this issue. And those that DO have a signal, for the most part, are not the target audience for the segments...

Like preaching to the choir!;)

FM Trap has been brought up a few times here, so I thought I'd ask -- my Winegard preamp has an FM trap. I believe that -- in the past -- the FM trap was to be enabled if one saw a "herringbone" pattern on the screen. That's now moot, since one won't see such an image on digital...correct? So, can someone provide technical pointers as to when the FM trap should be enabled/disabled? For example, is there a relationship between a nearby FM station on a particular frequency causing interference in the reception of a TV station on a particular RF channel?

Thanks!

Eric

Let's see if I can make sense of an answer for you.

Channel 8 TV operates between 180-186 MHz. That is exactly twice the FM frequencies between 90-93 MHz. Other FM signals can be of such strength that they can cause wide band noise that will blank out some or all of the TV signal. Remember, digital TV is 5.35 MHz wide where an FM signal is only 150 kHz wide. You take that signal and start taking pot shots at that 5.35 MHz signal and you start loosing data and you don't decode because too much data has been lost.

With digital you won't know if that is an issue until you do one of two things; 1) look at the signal with a spectrum analyzer, something most do not have or 2) you try the FM trap. Since converter boxes and I suspect digital TV's as well do not have FM traps in them, that will be an issue. In our area we have strong FM stations on 90.3, 90.5, 90.7, 92.5, 93.1, 94.1, 95.5, 97.1, 98.7, 100.3, 102.1, 104.1, 107.5. Any combination of those stations, singularly or in concert can create enough noise or harmonic signals to the input of a converter box to blank out through overload, any 7-13 digital TV signal.

We intend to do some more experimentation Monday with a FM trap and pass that info along to the FCC. That is why those in the field can be of assistance not only to use but viewers around the country if this proves to be one of the major issues. The lack of signal is a whole different thing that is being addressed as well. But the FM trap is something we can do now.

Remember, our quick test Friday night, we were sitting underneath the tower in the building next to the transmitter with Rock 92 on 92.3 three miles away.

Let's see if I can make sense of an answer for you.

Channel 8 TV operates between 180-186 MHz. That is exactly twice the FM frequencies between 90-93 MHz. Other FM signals can be of such strength that they can cause wide band noise that will blank out some or all of the TV signal. Remember, digital TV is 5.35 MHz wide where an FM signal is only 150 kHz wide. You take that signal and start taking pot shots at that 5.35 MHz signal and you start loosing data and you don't decode because too much data has been lost.

With digital you won't know if that is an issue until you do one of two things; 1) look at the signal with a spectrum analyzer, something most do not have or 2) you try the FM trap. Since converter boxes and I suspect digital TV's as well do not have FM traps in them, that will be an issue. In our area we have strong FM stations on 90.3, 90.5, 90.7, 92.5, 93.1, 94.1, 95.5, 97.1, 98.7, 100.3, 102.1, 104.1, 107.5. Any combination of those stations, singularly or in concert can create enough noise or harmonic signals to the input of a converter box to blank out through overload, any 7-13 digital TV signal.

We intend to do some more experimentation Monday with a FM trap and pass that info along to the FCC. That is why those in the field can be of assistance not only to use but viewers around the country if this proves to be one of the major issues. The lack of signal is a whole different thing that is being addressed as well. But the FM trap is something we can do now.

Remember, our quick test Friday night, we were sitting underneath the tower in the building next to the transmitter with Rock 92 on 92.3 three miles away.

Thanks for the information...that helps me understand the purpose of an FM trap. And thanks for posting the WGHP transmitter pics earlier -- very neat looking.

foxeng,

just wanted to let you know there here... dillon rd at kivett dr in east high point, 8d is coming in much better than 35d.

i never got good reception on 35d, i dunno why. i get better reception on wfxr in roanoke. but 8d is clear as it can be. i'm pretty close though, as the crow flies.

i'm using a cm4221 old style, on a tripod next to a north facing window. i'm in an apartment, so that's all the best i can do antenna wise.

on another installation, in woolwine, va... we have an old style cm4228 on the roof and with a cm7777 amp and a rotor. we don't get 8 at all there, but we did get wccb some and wraz some, neither came in all the time. haven't been back up there since you turned 35d back on... and we just got the antenna up... so i don't know about 35 up there.

and in wadesboro, nc... with an old cm4221 on the roof pointed toward charlotte, my mom used to get 8 analog watchable... 35d came in spotty, some days better than others. 8d not at all. she gets wfmy and wxlv fine.

Thanks amos1001.

I'm currently doing a rescan because when I turned the TV on this morning, 3/4 of the QAM channels I've been getting for months have moved around again. Have they done this anywhere besides Greensboro?

I'm currently doing a rescan because when I turned the TV on this morning, 3/4 of the QAM channels I've been getting for months have moved around again. Have they done this anywhere besides Greensboro?



Channels I've found in a rescan:

90-103 Old movies, no call sign or logo or anything in the last 15 minutes.
93-1 WCWG20
93-3 UNC HD
93-4 UNC SD
93-5 UNC don't know which but it's SD
93-6 UNC ED SD
94-1 MY48 HD
94-3 This Carolina
94-4 Channel 2's weather sub channel
94-5 UNC Kids SD
94-9 UNC SD
113-1 ABC45 HD
113-4 CBS channel 2 HD
116-2 Fox 8
116-3 NBC WXII
114-414 News 14 TWC

Channels I've found in a rescan:

90-103 Old movies, no call sign or logo or anything in the last 15 minutes.
93-1 WCWG20
93-3 UNC HD
93-4 UNC SD
93-5 UNC don't know which but it's SD
93-6 UNC ED SD
94-1 MY48 HD
94-3 This Carolina
94-4 Channel 2's weather sub channel
94-5 UNC Kids SD
94-9 UNC SD
113-1 ABC45 HD
113-4 CBS channel 2 HD
116-2 Fox 8
116-3 NBC WXII
114-414 News 14 TWC


90-103 is HBO Signature, finally the movie ended so I could see what channel it is.

My question does not pertain to the Greensboro market, but you guys seem to be the smartest in the room! But, it could apply to anyone getting a translator's signal.

How do most DTV converter boxes or DTV televison tuners react when receiving a signal from a main transmitter plus that station's translator WHEN the translator does not have unique PSIP data? In other words, the translator is simply re-transmitting EVERYTHING including PSIP data from the main transmitter? Here in Morganton, NC, I get WUNF (UNC-TV) from Asheville plus I get one its translators. Instead of getting the virtual channel 33 of WUNF I get a channel 70 on my DISH DTV Pal box, becuase of receiving these two different signals. How do other manufacturers' tuners and converter boxes handle this sort of thing? Also, what are translator's requirements regarding PSIP data?

Thanks!

Eric

At the WSOC-TV translator at Connelly Springs we insert all new PSIP data. WSOC-TR on RF channel 42, PSIP channel 6.1 and WAXN-TR on channel 6.2. (-TR meaning translator). If all PSIP data was being passed thru you would get two 33.1's or 33.1 for WUNF and the translator [RF channel].3 or [RF Channel] .4 when receiving the translator signal. Granted the DISH boxes handle PSIP different sometimes.

High Point QAM has moved around also...I know they are the same feeds....but this is a pain!

I'm going to try the FM trap as soon as I can get one. I can now report that I am getting VHF 8, using an RCA UHF/VHF combo set top indoor antenna (ANT 1251), amplified with separate amplification for VHF and UHF. The reason why I'm going to try it is because it amplifies FM, I have a Magnavox converter box, and the Magnavox reports a signal level of 30 but pixellates horribly. I previously couldn't get VHF 8, but I tried it in another room and voila! signal! However an outdoor antenna is still required IMO.

Thank you Foxeng, I also got 8 back after you turned on 35. I'm in Mebane.

I got a call up here this morning from someone in Floyd Co., VA who sees channel 8 (on VHF, apparently, since he says he didn't lose it in the few days after June 12). Outdoor antenna on a rotor.

- Trip

And that is the mystery.

Except it's really not that much of a mystery.

If you under-power VHF, which the FCC apparently did, and conceptualize the problem properly, which the FCC apparently did not, then what you would expect is lots of service losses close in, diminishing as you approach the minimal reception contour, and then a few more service losses beyond the digital cliff.

Seems to me that's pretty much what we've seen around the country. The digital cliff is not always exactly where predicted, and there are a few local anomalies here and there, but mostly, the pattern is about what you'd expect when transmitter powers are generally insufficient to create digital field strengths on a par with the previous analog field strengths.

So what's the mystery?

c. localized noise from FM (converter boxes are not required as analog TVs were to have a FM trap on the input;
Do you know of a specific FCC reg requiring FM traps?

I was under the impression that FM traps disappeared from TVs once the industry standardized on EIA-IS6 (iirc) as the cable channel number plan. Most all TVs since, I dunno, 1990 or so, have tuned all cable channels from 1-125, including channels 95-97, which are in FM band.

Also, most commonly available FM traps don't reach full depth until 92-95 MHz, in order to protect channel 6. Full bandwidth FM traps are available, but they are incompatible with the use of channel 6. So including FM traps in converter boxes would have been problematic, given the FCC's decision to allow DTV on channel 6.

In any case, with adequate shielding, FM traps are generally an unnecessary expense, and best applied externally in those cases where they are required.

Except it's really not that much of a mystery.

If you under-power VHF, which the FCC apparently did, and conceptualize the problem properly, which the FCC apparently did not, then what you would expect is lots of service losses close in, diminishing as you approach the minimal reception contour, and then a few more service losses beyond the digital cliff.

Seems to me that's pretty much what we've seen around the country. The digital cliff is not always exactly where predicted, and there are a few local anomalies here and there, but mostly, the pattern is about what you'd expect when transmitter powers are generally insufficient to create digital field strengths on a par with the previous analog field strengths.

So what's the mystery?

The FCC took measurements in the field and horizontal distances of only a few would take reception from solid to none. That is the mystery. These guys from the FCC do this type work all the time. This wasn't the first time they have done field measurements. I mean they are from the Enforcement Bureau. Field measurements are their job.

Also, most commonly available FM traps don't reach full depth until 92-95 MHz, in order to protect channel 6. Full bandwidth FM traps are available, but they are incompatible with the use of channel 6. So including FM traps in converter boxes would have been problematic, given the FCC's decision to allow DTV on channel 6.

In any case, with adequate shielding, FM traps are generally an unnecessary expense, and best applied externally in those cases where they are required.

Rationalize all you want, FM traps are working in many cases. This is the type of thinking that has been at the FCC and is why we are here. The FCC is beginning to realize that. Reality and theory don't always match.

I didn't say FM traps wouldn't work. I said they are best applied externally.

In fact, FM trapping is essential when dealing with weak VHF. And I would never try to amplify VHF TV in an urban area without it.

But the fact that FM traps are working for you supports my position that external trapping is sufficient

The FCC took measurements in the field and horizontal distances of only a few would take reception from solid to none. That is the mystery.
But that's not a mystery. Anyone who's played with antennas at all knows that sweet spots and dead spots are a fact of life.

These guys from the FCC do this type work all the time. This wasn't the first time they have done field measurements. I mean they are from the Enforcement Bureau. Field measurements are their job.
Yep. I know what they do. Filed a complaint once about cable leakage. Nerdy guy came out with his portable meter and antenna, took measurements in the street and so on.

And he went away all excited, because, with a little help from me, he discovered an FM harmonic from a local translator that was most definitely not supposed to be there. So he was just itching to go back and write a letter.

Great news for him, but not so great for me, because the cable leakage didn't meet the level where he could act on it.

I wish you better luck.

Went to Dow Electronics in GSO today. No FM traps in their stock, but I did order one from ebay, ironically a Radioshack one - the one the Radioshack website says doesn't exist and the one the stores don't stock. So it'll take time to come. I also got a Winegard 8800 to play with as well - not expecting great things for that for VHF 8 but I need to sort out 25 for UNC-TV as that's the station my son watches most (4-2 !)

Went to Dow Electronics in GSO today. No FM traps in their stock, but I did order one from ebay, ironically a Radioshack one - the one the Radioshack website says doesn't exist and the one the stores don't stock. So it'll take time to come. I also got a Winegard 8800 to play with as well - not expecting great things for that for VHF 8 but I need to sort out 25 for UNC-TV as that's the station my son watches most (4-2 !)

You might have some VHF luck with your new 8800. I installed an 8800 last week and combined with a CM-7777 preamp, I get solid signals from WNCT-10 (41 miles), WTVD-11 (34 miles), and WCTI-12 (57 miles). I was shocked at the VHF signal levels that it gets, WNCT and WTVD are in 90's and WCTI in the 60's. Of course it's really good on UHF.:) Good luck.

Went to Dow Electronics in GSO today. No FM traps in their stock, but I did order one from ebay
For those who don't care about WBRA on RF3 from Roanoke, a better option would be an HLSJ (Google "HLSJ"), which will completely knock out everything below 120 MHz or so, including those lower FM band stations from 90-93 MHz whose second harmonics would fall on channel 8. Put 2 or 3 of those in the line and you could amplify channel 8 for distribution to a couple of dozen sets.

This was brought to my attention this evening. I was wondering if someone had done this. Looks like the answer is YES! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGwKwxuXYCg

Figured I'd write my experiences if for nothing other than reference. I recently moved and was using OTA only until TWC could come out. I moved to a 2nd story apartment with an E-W orientation, with the long outside wall facing north located near elm and pisga church in Greensboro. Antenna was an older (looks late 80's or early 90's) amplified UHF/VHF combo made by Jensen. Had it plugged directly into a Vizio with a digital tuner and was unable to get Fox 8 no matter what I did with the dipoles or the amplification level. Also was unable to receive 26. The large trees outside both of my exterior walls probably don't help the reception either. Got TWC now, but would like to be able to get Fox OTA come NFL season.

Update: Since you turned on 35, I have been able to get Fox in crystal clear OTA with the same antenna.

Thanks to all of the TV engineers out there who are working tirelessly for our benefit.

You're right retspin on the 8800 - it *is* a good antenna. I just could not wait (boys with toys, eh?) and assembled it and propped it up on the front deck. No amplifier, no real levitation. No real aiming it either... and I get good clean signals and lots of them. More importantly, no break up on UNC-TV. WGHP VHF-8 comes in good too. Even WXII comes in with the antenna perpendicular to their TX site and the house in the way. All I need to do is mount it properly, aim it better, and then get a distribution amp.

I'll still try the trap out though on that indoor antenna . I pity those in apartments...

WGHP VHF-8 comes in good too.

If I may inquire, how did you determine that you were watching 8 and not 35?

Hi All.

Sorry to hear some are having trouble with WGHP 8 OTA.

My setup: D* HR-21 with the AM-21 OTA tuner.
Terrestrial Digital DB8 UHF antenna
Old Rat Shack Preamp (circa 1991, designed for 300 OHM twin lead
Using a balun) with a switchable FM trap

I'm getting an 80-85% reading on the signal strength with or without the FM trap in. FOX 8 is solid.

I'm in Lewisville, best small town in NC. I can also tune all the Charlotte stations if I fool around with the rotor.

As best I can tell the DB8, in the attic is within 50 Feet of the highest point in Forsyth County. That must help.

Hope you are getting some rest, Foxeng. The sign off on the 12th. was fun to experience.

Joe

Not sleeping as good as I like! :D

If I may inquire, how did you determine that you were watching 8 and not 35?

The re-scan came up with two 8-1's on both a Magnavox and RCA converter box. I further tested by scanning on the Magnavox without the antenna to clear out all channels and then did a manual entry for 8 (RCA doesn't have manual entry). Signal level on 8 is lower than 35.

The re-scan came up with two 8-1's on both a Magnavox and RCA converter box. I further tested by scanning on the Magnavox without the antenna to clear out all channels and then did a manual entry for 8 (RCA doesn't have manual entry). Signal level on 8 is lower than 35.

OK, great! Good to know!

I receive 45 and 20 here quite clearly which is a miracle in itself given how far I am from the transmitters (Boone). I know that sounds ridiculous but I get a clear, solid signal here on those channels with no break up. I doubt Fox 8 will work though I may try the FM Trap simply because I believe 45 and 20 have their towers in the same vicinity. It would be unusual if it even worked at all. 35, btw, has registered some signal on my converter box but of course the receiver doesn't lock on it. A better antenna arrangement would help I imagine.

I receive 45 and 20 here quite clearly which is a miracle in itself given how far I am from the transmitters (Boone). I know that sounds ridiculous but I get a clear, solid signal here on those channels with no break up. I doubt Fox 8 will work though I may try the FM Trap simply because I believe 45 and 20 have their towers in the same vicinity. It would be unusual if it even worked at all. 35, btw, has registered some signal on my converter box but of course the receiver doesn't lock on it. A better antenna arrangement would help I imagine.

jkeelsnc,

Can you get WJHL or WCYB from Tri-Cities?

Eric

Actually, no I have never gotten even single bar on the signal meter from WCYB or WJHL even when I connected an antenna that receives VHF. In any case they might actually work though if I got an FM Trap. WCYB is odd in that it is a VHF LO station on Ch 5 which I didn't think that the FCC would allow. WJHL of course is VHF HI channel on Ch. 11. The problem with not getting any signal from either of those (even though antennaweb shows that I should) may very well be because of the lack of the FM Trap. The Zenith converter box I have is good. But it seems like the fm interference is causing problems so I agree that I should find an FM Trap soon. I am not sure that Radio Shack still carries one. Years ago when I lived in Winston I had an FM trap but of course I no longer have it (it did help back then on the VHF channels in Winston BTW).

To show you how long ago that was WGHP was still ABC back then. hah :)

FYI, I hope to have the main ch 8 transmitter back on the air Friday. We had hoped to have it on today, but the backup exciter had an issue and they are shipping a new one in today. I need to finish the remote control too. We got the transmitter up to full rated power yesterday afternoon (4.6 kw TPO) We will be running at 1/4 power (1.3 kw TPO) to make authorized power (11.5 kw ERP). We hope that the FCC will allow us a power increase soon to see how much difference it makes.

FYI, I hope to have the main ch 8 transmitter back on the air Friday. We had hoped to have it on today, but the backup exciter had an issue and they are shipping a new one in today. I need to finish the remote control too. We got the transmitter up to full rated power yesterday afternoon (4.6 kw TPO) We will be running at 1/4 power (1.3 kw TPO) to make authorized power (11.5 kw ERP). We hope that the FCC will allow us a power increase soon to see how much difference it makes.

Best wishes, foxeng...I live in Morganton and can occasionally get glimmers of and sometimes a momentary watchable WGHP signal, but I think that's mostly due to atmospheric conditions. Of course, I'm about 100 miles from the Randleman-Level Cross towers. What is interesting, though, is that I tend to get WXLV most of the time -- even when atmospheric conditions are not in effect. And I've NEVER gotten WFMY.

Running the TV channel search after installing a CECB for a friend last night reminded me that channel 3's third harmonic is on channel 8.

Probably a good idea to use channel 4 instead of 3 as the CECB or satellite receiver output channel to minimize interference with DTV on 8, especially when using indoor antennas.

FYI, I hope to have the main ch 8 transmitter back on the air Friday. We had hoped to have it on today, but the backup exciter had an issue and they are shipping a new one in today. I need to finish the remote control too. We got the transmitter up to full rated power yesterday afternoon (4.6 kw TPO) We will be running at 1/4 power (1.3 kw TPO) to make authorized power (11.5 kw ERP). We hope that the FCC will allow us a power increase soon to see how much difference it makes.

It is nice that you have headroom, for a future power increase!

Previously posted in the Roanoke Va. Forum

Here is a general overview of an "Anonymous" post found on the Consumer Electronics Association forum. The link is provided at the end of the page


It’s the antenna stupid!!

Ok, I will admit that digital TV still has some issues to be worked out, but there are several things to remember, with the first being that this is a new technology that was not completely perfected and thoroughly researched before it was shoved in the public's face.

Reception problems were well known by the FCC and industry experts alike, and continued research and development into new antenna designs, and improved receiver electronics is still urgently needed.

Since the transition has taken place, there are now major reception issues with a lot of stations who chose to go back to their former VHF channel assignments that are just now being realized and discovered. All digital TV channel assignments should have been assigned in the UHF TV band only.

The grossly inadequate promotion and education program that was laughable, led viewers to believe that “THE MAGIC BOX, ALONG WITH A SET OF MAGIC RABBIT EARS” was all you would need, and life in broadcast TV land would be all rosy again after analog was shut off, while TV broadcast engineers gritted their teeth every time a DTV answers commercial ran showing a picture of “THE MAGIC BOX, ALONG WITH A SET OF MAGIC RABBIT EARS”, for they knew very early in the game about the problems that existed with digital TV signal reception.

Welcome to reality antenna viewers, and that reality is that digital TV is not really a bad concept, but just because a radio signal carries digital data does not make it “MAGIC”, or change the simple laws of physics, the electrical properties, or the reception methods of an electromagnetic radio signal.

YOU MUST HAVE A PROPERLY SELECTED AND INSTALLED ANTENNA FOR YOUR AREA, AND THE APPROPRIATE ACCESSORIES SUCH AS AN ANTENNA ROTOR AND PROPER CABLING TO RECEIVE THE DIGITAL TV SIGNALS RELIABLY…PERIOD.

IN MOST CASES, INDOOR ANTENNAS DO NOT WORK WELL IN A MAJORITY OF LOCATIONS…PERIOD.

I will repeat that I think digital TV is a good concept, and being employed as a Broadcast Television Engineer, I really think that digital TV could have a bright future, but only if the broadcast industry can repair the damage done to its reputation by the “Beltway Boys”, and their failed attempt to educate, or to purposely mislead the public about the simple laws of physics in regards to TV signal reception. I will again state that the reception issues were well known, and well documented for any politician or FCC board member who cared to read about them.

The description of a properly installed TV reception antenna on the FCC’s own website states that “In order to receive broadcast TV signals reliably, an antenna should be installed at least 30 feet above the ground”, and in some cases is worded to state “Above the surrounding terrain”

Could one of the engineers at the FCC, if there are any of them left, please explain to me how “THE MAGIC BOX, ALONG WITH A SET OF MAGIC RABBIT EARS” that we saw so many pictures of in the past 2 years can be expected to suddenly defy the laws of physics, and magically receive those “Elusive”, but wonderful digital TV and HDTV signals.

Remember again that the laws of electrical physics in general do not change just because the radio signal contains digital information. The signals still obey the laws of nature and physics in regards to reception, propagation, and the proper equipment needed to receive them.

And in defense of the concept of digital TV broadcasting, whose issues will be worked out sometime in the future, I will state the following…

A PROPERLY SELECTED AND INSTALLED OUTDOOR ANTENNA AND THE APPROPRIATE ACCESSORIES SUCH AS AN ANTENNA ROTOR AND PROPER CABLING WILL LIKELY RECEIVE BROADCAST DIGITAL TV SIGNALS RELIABLY IN 80 TO 90% OF LOCATIONS WHERE THE SIGNAL EXISTS TO BE RECEIVED…PERIOD.

Of course, there are many other aspects to the reception of digital TV signals, which include VHF versus UHF, new antenna designs, and several other aspects, but they are to numerous to list here.

No matter how far we advance in technology, it seems we still have to look to the past to find answers to new problems. Welcome to the new era of the outdoor antenna, or the beginning of the end of broadcast TV, depending on whose viewpoint you see it from.

We are literally now amongst a generation of younger people who have no concept of how television was viewed only a mere 20 years ago using outdoor antennas erected as high as physically possible. They only know about paying for TV via cable, and even more recently, satellite TV, and they also do not seem to realize that there is free TV available using a seemingly little known metallic device known as an antenna.

My lifelong involvement in the Amateur Radio hobby, as well as employment in 2-way radio service, and currently as a Broadcast Television Engineer in a very mountainous area of the country that has numerous reception issues, would seem to make me well qualified to comment on this topic.


http://blog.ce.org/index.php/2008/12.../#comment-2903

So much for "prime" real estate....

JESSELL AT LARGE
VHF: Now Everything You Know Is Wrong
By Harry A. Jessell
TVNEWSDAY, Jun 26 2009, 3:23 PM ET
Every so often, when I was a kid, my mother would start vacuuming while my brothers and I were trying to watch TV. The picture would tear and roll, even though she was in another room in the house. "Mom, Mom, you're wrecking the TV and it's the best part," we'd scream. Unappreciated in her efforts to keep a home with six children, Mom ignored us. She had work to do and didn't even care if it was reruns of Gilligan's Island she was trashing.

I was reminded of this slice of life by all this talk about how VHF in digital isn't what it used to be in analog.

It turns out the vacuuming problem has a technical name: impulse noise. It does terrible things to VHF signals and the TV pictures they produce and comes not just from vacuums, but from other electrical appliances with motors, florescent lights, power lines, radios — the whole shebang of man-made interference.

The impulse noise is all around us and probably much worse today than it was 40 or 45 years ago when I was dead serious about my TV viewing.

The impulse noise is killing digital VHF reception, particularly on channels 2- 6. Stations don't have enough power to overcome the noise and, in the on-off world of digital, too much noise and not enough signal means loss of service.

When the FCC handed out digital channels, it had to limit the power of VHF stations to prevent interference among stations in the more tightly packed digital broadcast band. VHF signals do propagate well and so are more likely to interfere if power is not reined in.

VHF stations have other problems that attenuate what power they do have. Because of the long wavelengths of VHF signals, they have trouble penetrating homes and apartment buildings. What's more, many committed over-the-air viewers were sold UHF-only TV antennas or all-band antennas with small, lousy VHF elements.

It all explains why viewers are calling hotlines wondering what happened to their favorite stations and why broadcasters are looking for solutions.

Stations that have experienced significant loss of viewership since the switch to digital-only broadcasting on a VHF channel have been running to the FCC for help. Some want more power; others want to move back to their old temporary UHF assignment or find a permanent home in the UHF band.

Since the June 12 analog cut off, the FCC has granted extra power to three VHF stations (ABC's WPVI Philadelphia; Schurz's KWCH Hutchison-Wichita, Kan.; and Sunbeam's WSVN Miami) and has received requests from 11 others.
Post-Newsweek, for instance, asked the FCC two days ago if it could kick up the power of WPLG, ch. 10 in Miami, from 22 kW to 60 kW, assuring the FCC that it would not interfere with any other station.
The FCC also says that it has granted several requests from stations to retreat to their pre-transition UHF channels.

I heard the tale of one broadcaster with a major market duopoly who intends to ask the FCC if it can switch the stations' channels so that its Big Four affiliate would be on a UHF channel and its netlet affiliate would be on the VHF assignment.

The VHF problem turns everything I know about RF TV reception (and it isn't much) on its head. For the past 30 years covering the TV business, I had presumed that VHF was better than UHF. It gave you the same coverage for a fraction of the power of UHF and those long radio waves could reach farther.

I also recall that in the olden days UHF stations were harder to tune in. You clicked the dial to the VHF channel, but you had to tune in the UHF stations on a continuous dial as you would an AM or FM station on the radio. For whatever reason, UHF reception was always lousier.

Now, it seems UHF is the place to be — and not only for regular broadcast service.

From what I'm hearing from RF engineers who are obsessed with this issue right now, VHF is going to have big trouble in mobile DTV, which is being hyped as the second coming of TV broadcasting.
"There is not an engineer — a sane engineer — who would disagree with that," says Sinclair's Mark Aitken, a member of the technical advisory committee of the Open Mobile Video Coalition. "VHF is not king in the mobile world."
According to Aitken and others, the problem is a function not just of power, but of wavelength. The tiny antennas being squeezed into cell phone and other mobile devices will have a tough time capturing VHF signals with their long wavelengths. The shorter waves of UHF are far more compatible. VHF mobile is going to be a real stretch," says William Meintel, a consulting engineer at Meintel, Sgrignoli & Wallace."

To get a handle on just how much the digital transition has affected conventional thinking about TV broadcasting, consider the FCC national TV ownership cap, which is based in part on the now quaint notion that UHF stations deliver half the coverage of VHF station.

The rules put no limit on the number of stations any single company may own. Instead, they say that it cannot own stations reaching any more than 39 percent of the 114 million TV homes in the U.S.
In calculating reach, station groups may cut in half the homes reached in markets where they have only a UHF station. For instance, they would count only 3.7 million homes in New York, even though the No. 1 market actually has 7.4 million.

This is not a problem that is going to go away.

Fixing VHF for regular broadcast viewers may simply be a matter of getting them the right antenna, one that can make up for the insufficient power and poor building penetration.

But the nearly 500 full-power stations with VHF channels may be struck in a band that puts them at a severe disadvantage in making the leap to mobile. It doesn't see fair.

For the new FCC chairman, Julius Genachowski, who's expected to take office next week, it's one more thing for him to worry about.

Harry A. Jessell is editor of TVNewsday.com.

FYI, we put the main channel 8 antenna and transmitter on the air this afternoon. The coverage is suppose to be the same as the aux we have been running since June 12th.

I see where DC law firm Cohen, Dippell and Everist has filed a petition of rule making with the FCC to allow VHF High stations to increase power 6 db. In our case if that passed, we could increase power from 11.5kw to 40kw and the transmitter we have on line WILL do that now. Just turn it up. As a matter of fact, I saw it do more power than would be required to give us 6db when we were testing it this week. Of course who knows what other things would be included that would cause a station to NOT be able to do that. The FCC makes wonderful double edged swords.

Is anyone else receiving " this channel is unavailable at this time try again later" message for hd channels 565 and above on their cable boxes? It was intermittent over the last few months but now I haven't been able to get any of the channels above 565. I called customer service who didn't have any answers except rebooting the box which was ineffective and offering me a credit on my next bill.

Is anyone else receiving " this channel is unavailable at this time try again later" message for hd channels 565 and above on their cable boxes? It was intermittent over the last few months but now I haven't been able to get any of the channels above 565. I called customer service who didn't have any answers except rebooting the box which was ineffective and offering me a credit on my next bill.

I have had this problem in the past and occasionally still get it today. I assume you are in the Triad TW service area. If so, I discovered that the best way to get someone to look at it is to send an email to Buck Yarborough,

buck.yarborough@twcable.com

who is an executive within TW-Triad Operations dept. When I sent him my symptoms he referred the issue to Engineering and they resolved it for me. It turns out that, in my case, the problem is related to SDV problems within the hub which serves my area. The engineer to whom he referred the problem gave me his email address so that when I have problems in the future I can send him an email and he looks into it.

He isn't completely forthcoming as to the specific problems they are fixing, but I do know that they are related to SDV and how it is implemented. I think they are still feeling their way with how to make SDV work, so he seems to appreciate the fact that I am able to describe the problem as specifically as possible and give him as many details as I am able.

Send your email to Buck and give him as much detail as possible and I believe he will refer it to someone for action. Be sure to give him address and phone number so they can contact you, if necessary. I suggested this course of action to another fellow on this forum and Buck responded to him promptly.

By the way, just because they might get it fixed right now doesn't mean that you won't have other problems in the future. I had a problem last night which I sent an email on early this morning which they responded to and are looking into. SDV apparently is not a one size fits all technology and it requires a fair amount of tweaking for each hub (neighborhood) in which it is deployed. Good luck and post your results.

Is anyone else receiving " this channel is unavailable at this time try again later" message for hd channels 565 and above on their cable boxes? It was intermittent over the last few months but now I haven't been able to get any of the channels above 565. I called customer service who didn't have any answers except rebooting the box which was ineffective and offering me a credit on my next bill.

That happened to us last night for the first time. Later in the evening, all was back to normal.

That happened to us last night for the first time. Later in the evening, all was back to normal.This has happened on many occasions here.. I have a pretty good idea it is what you will see if all the switched-digital channels are being used, and there is not a free one available to allocate to the channel you are trying to tune to.

Usually, waiting a minute or so will get a channel to be available, but I usually have to tune to a different channel first and then tune back, otherwise, the set-top-box does not even try to request the channel.

If I ever find that no SDV channel works, I'll call it in as a trouble... thanks for the contact info.

Joe L.

SDV seems to have been acting up at my house more than normally lately. In fact last week my bedroom TV couldn't get ANY SDV channels. Since my living room TV was working I rebooted my bedroom's box and that fixed it.

I highly recommend rebooting your box before calling a CSR at TWC since it does fix problems sometimes and it will be the first thing they ask you to do.

I think SDV is a cooked turkey myself, and believe as they keep adding channels the problems will only become worse and more frequent.

I highly recommend rebooting your box before calling a CSR at TWC since it does fix problems sometimes and it will be the first thing they ask you to do. So true... reboot first...

I think SDV is a cooked turkey myself, and believe as they keep adding channels the problems will only become worse and more frequent.
It should get better, as long as they also add more QAM slots to be used by SDV viewers. In theory, freeing up a few dozen analog channels should result in over a hundred SDV slots as the same spectrum is re-allocated to digital QAM modulation. Of course, this will not make those without a cable-box happy, as instead of 70 odd analog channels, they will only get those remaining.

Only TWC knows the real limitations of their hardware... and channel allocation plan.
In theory SDV works because only a subset of channels are being viewed.. But between shows,on the hour and half hour, when everybody is channel surfing, I think it is easy to run out of SDV slots on a node.

Joe L.

SDV seems to have been acting up at my house more than normally lately. In fact last week my bedroom TV couldn't get ANY SDV channels. Since my living room TV was working I rebooted my bedroom's box and that fixed it.

I highly recommend rebooting your box before calling a CSR at TWC since it does fix problems sometimes and it will be the first thing they ask you to do.

I think SDV is a cooked turkey myself, and believe as they keep adding channels the problems will only become worse and more frequent.

I agree completely with you regarding rebooting your box before you call a CSR, it will fix SOME problems. However whenever I experience a problem which I believe to be SDV related I send emails to the engineer I was referred to initially. Either he or someone in his group checks out the issue and usually they get it fixed. I have found the CSRs are worthless with regard to SDV problems. They only thing they know is reboot or to schedule a field tech to come to the house. And the field techs are almost as worthless as the CSRs. The SDV problems (channel not available, try again later) are generally not a set top box issue, those problems are fixed at the hub which serves each neighborhood.

I am not quite as down on SDV yet as you are, but only because whenever I have an issue, they have been able to fix it. New ones do crop up but so far they have been able to fix them. The engineers have not been real forthcoming with specific actions which they have taken but I have been able to glean that SDV has to be tailored to each neighborhood which it serves. It is not a cookie cutter application where one size fits all.

I highly recommend sending an email to Buck Yarborough if you are having issues so that he can get your problem referred to an engineer. Don't mistake my position here as being a cheerleader for TW. To the contrary, I am giving them a few months to see if they can get this SDV fixed to the point where I never see another "channel not available". In my case the frequency of those "channel not available" has been reduced dramatically. And on those rare occasions I get one I send them an email with as much detail as I can gather.

As far as I am concerned the jury is out, but I do see they are working hard to get it right. My fear is that at some point they will have done all they can and it's still not quite 100%. Then I hope that U-Verse, FIOS or some other competing technology will be available to us. I know there are some who love satellite TV and my son has it. It has an awful lot going for it, but the one drawback for me is the occasional rain fade. It doesn't happen a lot but when it does it is real annoying.

Sorry for the long winded reply ...

As far as I am concerned the jury is out, but I do see they are working hard to get it right. My fear is that at some point they will have done all they can and it's still not quite 100%.

That's what drove me to leave TWC. Even if they do get it all worked out, there's still going to be times when channels aren't available. There will always be endless pressure to over-extend to offer more HD, etc. Based on TW's past, I don't see if getting better that much sooner.

It should get better, as long as they also add more QAM slots to be used by SDV viewers. In theory, freeing up a few dozen analog channels should result in over a hundred SDV slots as the same spectrum is re-allocated to digital QAM modulation.

This is a slippery slope for cable - at least if they want to keep me as a customer. Yes removing analog channels will free up more room for SDV. BUT, analog channels are the biggest reason I stick with cable and don't leap to satellite. Once they remove enough channels from analog and reach the point that I can live with just OTA on my "extra" TVs, they may have solved or improved their SDV problems, but I will likely no longer be a customer. :)

I too wish we could get FIOS. I've already become a Verizon customer since they bought out Alltel, and would love to do some bundling with them. Everyone seems to rave about the quality of the FIOS TV product.

Analog cable is going away. When it will be, I don't know. Soon it will be that you will need a cable box for every TV you have (or CableCard if your TV supports it), or live with the clear-QAM channels on an appropriate TV. If it's an analog-only set, then a cable box will be required - period.

Here in former BellSouth land we're not getting Fios any time soon, but we might get AT&T's U-Verse. When it will come I don't know.

....

Here in former BellSouth land we're not getting Fios any time soon, but we might get AT&T's U-Verse. When it will come I don't know.

Can't blame a guy for dreaming ....

Here in former BellSouth land we're not getting Fios any time soon, but we might get AT&T's U-Verse. When it will come I don't know.

AT&T is setting up a FIOS system that is suppose to be up and running late this summer, early fall. NorthState has their Plex running now.

Based on what I've read of the poor PQ and the limitations with the number of video streams (especially on the HD side) I don't want U-Verse. But it's biggest plus is the number of available HD channels.

But the PQ issues and video stream limitations U-Verse have don't exist on FiOS. I would love it if we got FiOS around here. FiOS is the only provider that would cause me to drop D*.

NorthState has their Plex running now.

Is Nortstate's Plex really U-Verse under the covers or is it actually a separate service. Another question is does Plex run the Fiber all the way to house (which is what FiOS does and U-Verse doesn't) or only to the street with copper running to the house (which is what U-Verse does and causes their stream limitations).

Time Warner will begin the launch of the Navigator IPG in Greensboro next week. It will be launched in waves by box type. I do not know the order of the launch. Also Time Warner will have 50 YES I said 50 more HD channels in Greensboro and the triad by years end.

Is Nortstate's Plex really U-Verse under the covers or is it actually a separate service. Another question is does Plex run the Fiber all the way to house (which is what FiOS does and U-Verse doesn't) or only to the street with copper running to the house (which is what U-Verse does and causes their stream limitations).

Don't know. I live in Greensboro.

Time Warner will begin the launch of the Navigator IPG in Greensboro next week. It will be launched in waves by box type. I do not know the order of the launch. Also Time Warner will have 50 YES I said 50 more HD channels in Greensboro and the triad by years end.

I'll let you know when we get "upgraded".

Time Warner will begin the launch of the Navigator IPG in Greensboro next week. It will be launched in waves by box type. I do not know the order of the launch. Also Time Warner will have 50 YES I said 50 more HD channels in Greensboro and the triad by years end.

Jeez, are they going to let us know about this? Will our recordings be safe? Has anyone received an official communication from TWC on this?

Jeez, are they going to let us know about this? Will our recordings be safe? Has anyone received an official communication from TWC on this?

I understand flyers are being sent out.

Jeez, are they going to let us know about this? Will our recordings be safe? Has anyone received an official communication from TWC on this?

My information came from Time Warner.

Jeez, are they going to let us know about this? Will our recordings be safe? Has anyone received an official communication from TWC on this?

It is my understanding in past launches of Navigator your series to be recorded shows are saved but any recordings you have waiting to be watched have a 50 - 50 chance of being lost

FYI, we put the main channel 8 antenna and transmitter on the air this afternoon. The coverage is suppose to be the same as the aux we have been running since June 12th.


Here is a link to data that outlines a possible cause of all of the VHF reception issues we are seeing across the country. The author of this column had predicted this problem more than 2 years ago, and it seems he was correct in his predictions.

Look for previous columns by this author to track his predictions on this issue. His name is Charles W. Rhodes, who is a life long RF engineering expert. "He told them so, but no one was listening".

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/82716

So the idea of installing an FM trap is valid ? Cool - now try to find one. When you google for one, Radio Shack has a part number or 2, but not listed on their website. You MAY be able to find one in the store.

I have seen it.

TV Notes
Nielsen: DTV Unready Homes Drop to 1.7 Million
Reports only 1.5% of TV households now unready for digital
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 7/1/2009 12:36:49 PM EDT

DTV readiness continues to rise as the transition approaches three weeks since the June 12 hard date for the switch to all-analog full-power TV, with 800,000 homes having prepared themselves since that date.

According to Nielsen's latest figures (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/common/jumplink.php?target=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.nielsen.com%2Fnielsenw ire%2Fmedia_entertainment%2F800000-homes-have-upgraded-to-dtv-since-june-12-transition%2F) only 1.5% of TV households, or about 1.7 million homes, remain unready for the switch. Those are homes without cable or satellite and without a DTV set or an analog-to-digital converter box hooked up.

That number is down 400,000 homes from June 21, when the numbers were 1.8% and 2.1 million homes unready.

The DTV transition date was moved from Feb. 17 in part to allow more homes to prepare for the switch.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/307272-Nielsen_DTV_Unready_Homes_Drop_to_1_7_Million.php

So the idea of installing an FM trap is valid ? Cool - now try to find one. When you google for one, Radio Shack has a part number or 2, but not listed on their website. You MAY be able to find one in the store.

It has worked in a couple of test situations locally but not always. It depends on the strength of the TV signal and the FM signal.

It has worked in a couple of test situations locally but not always. It depends on the strength of the TV signal and the FM signal.

If it was ALWAYS cut and dried we wouldn't need engineers and experimenters :D

It has worked in a couple of test situations locally but not always. It depends on the strength of the TV signal and the FM signal.As with most consumer electronics, I'm sure there are differences between ATSC tuners in their ability to handle strong out-of-band signals.

Has the FCC released any specifics to which CECB boxes are better able to work in the presence of nearby strong FM channels?

I've since tried an Apex CECB at my home on the same TV in the spare room... It seems it is nowhere near as sensitive as the Insignia CECB. (or more sensitive to interference from local stations. Hard to tell which.)

Joe L.

Has the FCC released any specifics to which CECB boxes are better able to work in the presence of nearby strong FM channels?

I've since tried an Apex CECB at my home on the same TV in the spare room... It seems it is nowhere near as sensitive as the Insignia CECB. (or more sensitive to interference from local stations. Hard to tell which.)

Joe L.

The CECB's were to meet certain minimums but to my knowledge there are no specs out per box unless you can get them from the manufacturer. But since the CECBs were a limited run item, good luck.

It is my understanding in past launches of Navigator your series to be recorded shows are saved but any recordings you have waiting to be watched have a 50 - 50 chance of being lost

Having been through the rollout here in Durham, that is not true. Shows are only deleted if there isn't enough space on the drive for it to download the update. Simply make sure there is a decent amount of space available on your drive and you shouldn't lose any shows. Only people I heard about losing recordings were people's who drives were full.

Having been through the rollout here in Durham, that is not true. Shows are only deleted if there isn't enough space on the drive for it to download the update. Simply make sure there is a decent amount of space available on your drive and you shouldn't lose any shows. Only people I heard about losing recordings were people's who drives were full.What about those who have an external eSATA drive in addition to the internal drive? (I've got plenty of free space, but it would not be cool if Navigator did not handle the conversion and use of external drives as well as SARA did.)

Joe L.

Time Warner will begin the launch of the Navigator IPG in Greensboro next week. It will be launched in waves by box type. I do not know the order of the launch. Also Time Warner will have 50 YES I said 50 more HD channels in Greensboro and the triad by years end.


Nice....now when can we get the new Sammy DVR boxes???

Here in Fort Mill, SC 35.000754, -80.912150, I can get the following GBO stations

WFMY - 70% strength
WGHP (35) - 64% strength
WXLV - 74% strength
WCWG - 83% stength
WMYV - 55% strength

Here in Fort Mill, SC 35.0 N 80.54 W, I can get the following GBO stations

WFMY - 70% strength
WGHP (35) - 64% strength
WXLV - 74% strength
WCWG - 83% stength
WMYV - 55% strength

How well do you receive WOLO on channel 8?

Nice....now when can we get the new Sammy DVR boxes???
From all the trouble other areas are haveing with them I hope for not a while.

Here in Fort Mill, SC 35.0 N 80.54 W, I can get the following GBO stations

WFMY - 70% strength
WGHP (35) - 64% strength
WXLV - 74% strength
WCWG - 83% stength
WMYV - 55% strength



What is your antenna setup?

How well do you receive WOLO on channel 8?
I receive WOLO extremely well. I am about 62 miles from their transmitter and receive them full time at 80% signal. I also receive WIS at 80 to 90% since they went back to VHF 10 post conversion. Both of these stations are as strong as the Charlotte stations.

What is your antenna setup?
I have a Channel Master 3020 Deep fringe antenna mounted on top of the house (37 feet) with a channel master 7777 pre-amp and a rotor. I have had this setup for about 3years now and have seen stations from as far away as Charleston and Augusta and pre-conversion WITN-DT in Greenville NC. I currently receive most of the Columbia stations, all of Charlotte, most of Greensboro and WFXB in Myrtle Beach 50% of the time at night. I am waiting to see if I can see Greenville Spartanburg after August since about all of their stations are doing antenna work.

My coordinates were off... Go figure. Here are the correct coordinates: 35.000754, -80.912150 for my location.

I assume you must be referring to WGHP. At the present we are running at reduced power of 4200 watts (4.2 kW). There is no set date to increase power yet, so an indoor antenna, unfortunately will not pick us up unless you are at the tower. I am on the north side of Greensboro with a modest antenna setup, Channel Master 4228 and a small preamp on a 15 ft pole, yields good results. When the FCC set its standards for DTV, indoor rabbit ears were never considered, but an antenna located at 30 ft on the outside was used for all measurements.

We will have to make substantial modifications to increase power and we have been moving in that direction for several years and are continuing to do so, even now.

*** The following is my view and opinion and is not the view or opinion of my employer.***

I read in the forums people jumping up and down demanding stations be pulled because they are not at full power or haven't made it on air or because they only send up-converted signals.

The truth is, up until now, the FCC has not been very realistic in its view of what it takes to make the DTV transition a success. Only the broadcasters have been required to make this work, and it will take every player from the broadcasters to set manufactures to make this roll out a success. The current FCC sees this and is making strides to work with broadcasters and now is applying pressure on the other players as well. If you read the broadcast rags, the broadcasters applaud this and I think broadcasters would be more inclined to spend the extra if they knew that it all wasn't up to them, as it should be.

Had the FCC in 1995/96 come out with a complete DTV roll out plan that included the current broadcast timetable and mandated timetables for cable must carry, receiver conversion, and programming, we might be able to make the 2006 deadline, but the former FCC chairman walked around carrying a big stick demanding broadcasters do this and that and ignored the rest of the industry on this issue and was, IMHO, more inclined to criticize broadcasters than to help them. The current FCC chairman, who wants DTV, also understands the whole thing is so screwed up, it will take time to straighten out and get it going again, and he is trying to, by NOT carrying a big stick, but working with the broadcasters and addressing the other issues. He is getting more response now, than his predecessor did, but it is now 6 years down the road.

This DTV issue is a classic case of the government getting involved to force change when there was no real driving force. Would DTV have happened? Absolutely! Would it have been more orderly transition without the government? Yes. Would we have been further along in the transition had all the issues been addressed and not just the broadcast side? Yes.

It is ashamed that DTV holds so much promise and yet, it isn't happening, but I think the FCC sees its mistakes and it has sent a message to the effected industries, and they have received it. It will take some time to get DTV roll out back on track, because it is now derailed in a ditch and it is trying to get back up.

Right now the only people benefitting from DTV are the broadcast manufacturers and consumer manufacturers, because it costs money to convert whether you are a broadcaster or viewer. Until that scale is tipped by some factor (the FCC in this case), expect more of the same.

An analogy I have been using is this is 1946. In 1946, the FCC opened television to the masses. It was a rocky start, just like DTV. It was bleeding edge technology with few transmitters and fewer receivers. Stations came on sporadically and then left the air. Until the FCC made some hard and fast choices, TV floundered around until the early 50's, when it took off. The technology got better, and the industry got focused. DTV is in the same boat. In comparison, 2002 is DTV's 1946. The digital technology is still being proven and some is still vaporware, even today. I have heard others call DTV still a science project in the works, and it is. We the pupblic (me included) have gotten so use to turning on a device and it works first time, and DTV isn't there yet. As early adoptors, you are seeing a new technology develop before your eyes. DTV was only lab stuff 6 years ago and now it is in you home. A short time for R&D for an entire industry. Something that most people believed would never happen again. Remember you are the pioneers. So enjoy what little you receive right now. In years to come you can tell people how you SAW DTV develop. It will get better, but probably not as fast as we all would like it to.

The preceding has been my view and opinion. It is not the view or opinion of my employer.


Bravo FOXENG,

I couldn't have said it better myself. Part of the reason for all of this mis-information is due to the fact that the FCC was not given every aspect of the transition to handle, as the NTIA, and the CEA should share a great deal of the blame, when the FCC tested and recommends antennas be installed 30 feet in the air.

I would personally like a chance to horse whip who ever thought that Rabbit Ears had magically developed the ability to defy the laws of physics and start receiving challenging digital TV signals, when its analog cousin even had problems being received indoors, when all of the challenges of digital TV reception were well known.

Yes, in some cases, rabbit ears do work, and in the analog realm, if people could see a fairly decent picture, even with noisy audio, they were mostly happy. The reception issues with digital were well known, but the industry, and all of the governmental agencies involved chose to ignore these issues.

Why would any sensible person with power to make decisions think that promoting rabbit ears, or any type of indoor antenna with the well known reception issues of digital TV signals was a good idea? Is this an example of the people currently running this country who now want to tell us what type of light bulb we can buy, and how to spend our money? If the above example of the DTV fiasco is any indication of the future, we are in big trouble in this country !!

The FCC used to be staffed with real engineers who actually knew something about the radio waves they controlled, but now, the mission of the FCC has changed to maximize the return on a limited public resource for the government coffers, and that public resource is the radio spectrum itself, which THEY DO NOT OWN.

Digital TV is a good concept that was dealt a great injustice by those who were blinded by greed and did not devote enough resources to its development before forcing it on the public. It was forced it on the public before it was perfected enough to actually be what the electronic consumers are used to today, and that is Microsoft's concept of "Plug and Play", which is what consumers demand and expect in todays electronic gadgets and gizmo's.

It has always been about the government, and the entire electronics industry trying to make a quick dollar off of the American public by selling a public resource to private companies for obscene profits, without regards as who it effects or how, just as long as the profits are there. This can be proven by all of the different models of Coupon Boxes on the market. As soon as the government coupon money is gone, you will never see another DTV related product produced by the majority of the companies now selling the cheaper versions of converter boxes.

Bravo FOXENG,

WHOO! Someone has been doing some DEEP research! When did I post that? 2002? 2003? Holy smokes!

Let me also say for full disclosure, the FCC has been VERY responsive to our needs since June 12th. They have worked with us every possible way within the current laws and have been listening to us and have seen first hand with their own eyes what is happening here in our station. (The only time we have asked and welcomed the FCC into our station!) We are encouraged by what we have seen so far. We hope they will take this to its proper and correct conclusion for all VHF stations since they appear to have put so much into getting UHF right.

From all the trouble other areas are haveing with them I hope for not a while.

What kind of trouble are they having? Is it mostly the streaming of recordings to other boxes in the house?

What kind of trouble are they having? Is it mostly the streaming of recordings to other boxes in the house?

Boxes freezing up , missed recordings , only half of a show recording, constant spontanous rebooting, bad picture breakup problems. If this Samy is the box you want "RIGHT NOW" you got to take the problems with it. These have been problems in most all TWC Divisions this new box has been introduced in . Give them 6 months to a year to get the bugs out. Navigator runs fine on the newer 8300 and 8300hdc models.Latest reports are box fails to see new recording flag and you get all reruns also. Enjoy your sammy.Oh yes the multi room version is 6 to 8 months from being introduced.

Let me also say for full disclosure, the FCC has been VERY responsive to our needs since June 12th. They have worked with us every possible way within the current laws and have been listening to us and have seen first hand with their own eyes what is happening here in our station. (The only time we have asked and welcomed the FCC into our station!) We are encouraged by what we have seen so far. We hope they will take this to its proper and correct conclusion for all VHF stations since they appear to have put so much into getting UHF right.

In retrospect, would it have been better to have abandoned VHF all together and restrict stations to UHF-only (even channels 51-up) for DTV? Given the lack of clarity regarding antenna marketing and needs, I believe this would have been the best for consumers.
Also, regarding VHF-hi, does channel 13 behave more like UHF versus channel 7 since 13 is adjacent to UHF 14 or does it matter? In other words, is VHF-hi the same regarding reception, interference issues whether it's 7 or 13? Hope my question makes sense...

Eric

In retrospect, would it have been better to have abandoned VHF all together and restrict stations to UHF-only (even channels 51-up) for DTV? Given the lack of clarity regarding antenna marketing and needs, I believe this would have been the best for consumers.

Who knows, it is all academic now.

Also, regarding VHF-hi, does channel 13 behave more like UHF versus channel 7 since 13 is adjacent to UHF 14 or does it matter? In other words, is VHF-hi the same regarding reception, interference issues whether it's 7 or 13? Hope my question makes sense...

Eric

No, since channel 13 is 210-216 Mhz and channel 14 is at 470-476 Mhz. BIG spectrum difference and how it propagates. Remember channels 2-6 are between 54 and 88 MHz (VHF Low Band), channels 7-13 are 174-216 MHz (VHF High band) and channels 14-51 are 470-698 MHz (UHF). That is why they act differently from each other.

Watch your mail flyers for Navigator are being mailed today from Time Warner. Launch should start this weekend or early next week by area and box type.

I got one off ebay that was originally retailed by Radioshack. I have attached it to a Magnavox converter box, and in turn attached to ANT1251 RCA amplified indoor VHF/UHF antenna.

It has had a marginal improvement in my case, as artifact count appears to be down - but the best thing really is getting the right place for the antenna. The window is definitely the best place for these indoor antennas - anywhere else and there's no hope of getting anything in this tin can. Getting the signal level up for the desired channel is *the* best way to go.

Given that though, VHF 8 still gets only 20/100 on the Magavox compared to 70/100 for UHF 35. For reference I'm about 200 yards away from WEJM-LP.

I got one off ebay that was originally retailed by Radioshack. I have attached it to a Magnavox converter box, and in turn attached to ANT1251 RCA amplified indoor VHF/UHF antenna.

It has had a marginal improvement in my case, as artifact count appears to be down - but the best thing really is getting the right place for the antenna. The window is definitely the best place for these indoor antennas - anywhere else and there's no hope of getting anything in this tin can. Getting the signal level up for the desired channel is *the* best way to go.

Given that though, VHF 8 still gets only 20/100 on the Magavox compared to 70/100 for UHF 35. For reference I'm about 200 yards away from WEJM-LP.

We are also finding that amplified indoor antennas pick up all kinds of noise. You really need to put the FM trap BEFORE any amplification and since the amp is in the antenna, that is hard to do. Find a non amplified antenna, try the antenna without the trap and then with the trap and see what you get. That is the only way to really test it. If you are 200 yards away from WEJM-LP, the the amplifier in the antenna is being overloaded.

FYI, we will be carrying the FOX coverage of the Michael Jackson Memorial at 1pm. I have no idea if it will be in HD or not. If we get it over the splicer then there is a chance it will be in HD. If if comes over the "special events Receiver C" it will be SD. I am sure someone at the station knows which one, but I don't at this time.

Other media coverage says the originating signal will be in HD.

I read here that jacksonian and one other had pixellation issues with the Tivo HD, cablecards, and the tuning adapter with TWC cable. Has anyone found a remedy?

The FUD about Navigator and external drives has me considering buying a friend's Tivo HD, but I'm not sure to what extent TWC is supporting that setup.

Thanks in advance.

Hi wsanford,
I've been pretty impressed with TWC's support of TiVo and cablecards. The technology was half-baked and every cable provider (including and especially Verizon FIOS) has had a lot of trouble with issues like pixellation.

That said, for the first month or two, I really didn't have much trouble at all, then things started to get progressively worse to the point that BravoHD and History HD were virtually unwatchable due to pixellation.

Then a couple of weeks ago I lost all my SDV channels on both TiVo's. TWC sent someone out, he talked with TiVo's cable card support team for an hour, etc...but we couldn't get the tuning adapters to get the SDV channels. Finally the supervisor from TWC called and gave me a different sequence to power cycle and reconnect the tuning adapters. And voila, all my channels were back. And since then, I've had virtually NO pixellation.

So some of this is speculation, but I do know that both TiVo and TWC have actively been implementing firmware and software updates to try to address these issues. I think somewhere along the way my units needed a proper reset for those changes to take effect.

I'm an unabashed long-time TiVo fan. It's a personal choice. But to me, TiVo provides such an unbelievably superior experience that it's worth putting up with these growing pains.

I'd switch to Dish or DirecTV to get anything close to a TiVo before I went back to using SARA or to Navigator. I simply think SARA and Navigator are about 12 years behind TiVo. But some people don't value what TiVo offers. So your mileage may vary.

Right now I have all my channels, no pixellation, and my TiVo interface. And now when I call TWC, the CSRs actually know what a cablecard, a TiVo, and a tuning adapter are and know how to help me. After I got my TA's back online the other day 1 one of my CC's wasn't getting its authorization. I actually called TWC and got transferred directly to a cablecard specialist who knew exactly what he was doing and fixed the problem within a couple of minutes. If I had done that last year, it would have been a 30 minute phone call and a truck roll. So things have improved.

Some sports channels coming to TWC:
August 1, 2009: YES HD/SD will launch on channel 190 as part of the Games and Sports Tier. NESN HD/SD will launch on channel 191 as part of the Games and Sports Tier.

Funny we get YES and NESN before MASN. LEGALEZE~!

I'd switch to Dish or DirecTV to get anything close to a TiVo before I went back to using SARA or to Navigator. I simply think SARA and Navigator are about 12 years behind TiVo. But some people don't value what TiVo offers. So your mileage may vary.

FWIW, Directv is supposed to get a new MPEG4 Tivo Box sometime next year. Unlike the old Directv Tivo box, the new box will be compatible with all of Directv's latest TV channels and features.

Due to some unforseen problems the Navigator launch will be delayed at least 2 to 3 weeks.Some updates sent from coporate last night caused several of the employees boxes to crash. The engineers are trying to sort out and solve the problem before general release. The launch was to have started early Saturday morning but is now delayed due to the new bugs.

Well at least they did the employees first! Let's hope t he bugs are worked out before they try it on the rest of us ;)

Well at least they did the employees first! Let's hope t he bugs are worked out before they try it on the rest of us ;)

I belive Time Warner is working very very hard to avoid another Lincoln Nebraska disaster. Also Navigator has gotton much much better in the last two years since Lincoln. I belive lessons have been learned.

Two days before their planned launch and they are crashing boxes?! Somehow I am not full of confidence. I am beginning to have visions of a Direct TV dish in my backyard.

My personal opinion is that Navigator isn't going to be the panacea some on this thread thinks it is going to be from what I have been told by others who have it. Hope I am wrong.

My personal opinion is that Navigator isn't going to be the panacea some on this thread thinks it is going to be from what I have been told by others who have it. Hope I am wrong.

I have seen it, it is available here, and I think it is quite slow, and not as user friendly as my D* on screen guide. I didn't care for it. If you like a lot of button pushing, you may like it however.

I have seen it, it is available here, and I think it is quite slow,

That has been my experience with it in Charlotte, Raleigh, Wilmington, and Ocean Isle Beach - which is why I am dreading the change. I'd just assume stick with SARA than deal with slow as molasses Navigator.

My personal opinion is that Navigator isn't going to be the panacea some on this thread thinks it is going to be from what I have been told by others who have it. Hope I am wrong.

Don't get me wrong I would much prefer Passport. But compared to SARA , Navigator is our Passport. I have had Passport and have Navigator and SARA, SARA here in Greensboro and Navigator at a small coastal home we have. We used to have Passport there before the switch to Navigator. I perfer Passport first, Navigator second then SARA. If Navigator adds keyword search and manual recording it would be the equal of Passport. Haveing had experience with all 3 that is just my opinion.

Today is the final day of analog nightlighting. By midnight, WFMY and WXII nightlights are supposed to be off the air and the only analog left in the US are LP's.

Hmmm, I don't know what is different. However, I am getting WGHP in Boone more consistently than before. Actually, I never did get it before. In the last 3 or 4 days I get it some and this morning it is much better than ever before. I suspect the weather is a greater influence than anything. Nonetheless it is nice to have fox. I should say though that I am receiving WGHP on CH 35 and not on VHF 8. So I know it is temporary for now. It is interesting. My antenna setup is a 4 bay bowtie made from 4 RS bowtie antennas. It works great. I do not use my amplifier as it does not seem to help.

So my reception now consists of WGHP, WXII, WCWG, WXLV, and the local UNCTV digital translator which incidentally is down right now according to UNCTV because of an equipment problem. They say it will be back soon though. Some sporadic reception of WMYV and very rarely WFMY.

Hmmm, I don't know what is different. However, I am getting WGHP in Boone more consistently than before. Actually, I never did get it before. In the last 3 or 4 days I get it some and this morning it is much better than ever before. I suspect the weather is a greater influence than anything. Nonetheless it is nice to have fox. I should say though that I am receiving WGHP on CH 35 and not on VHF 8. So I know it is temporary for now. It is interesting. My antenna setup is a 4 bay bowtie made from 4 RS bowtie antennas. It works great. I do not use my amplifier as it does not seem to help.

We are still looking at all our options for the future and the chance of keeping channel 35 is still on the table even though it will take some legal work to make it happen if we choose to go that route. We are waiting to see what the FCC does on VHF power levels. We believe the level is too low, but because of the current rules in place, we can't increase power. There is a Notice of Proposed Rule Making before the FCC now that would allow VHF stations to increase power by 4 times. No one knows how the FCC will finally act on that proposal. We all are waiting to see.

WFMY and WXII nightlights ended at midnight. I checked at 11:30pm and they were still up and I intended on watching them end with a nice PIP on my TV, but got busy and when I checked at 12:05 AM, both were gone.

The only analog station left in the Triad is LP WGSR on channel 39. Good luck on seeing that one. They even have trouble reaching their digital site south of Reidsville. I tuned in yesterday and it looks like they have lost their digital microwave and they have taken an analog receiver to receive their analog from downtown Reidsville to put video on the digital and the signal quality into the digital transmitter is poor at best with the picture noisy and the luminance level too high on whites. It is pretty much unwatchable. So much for serving the Triad.

I added a reflector to my 4 bay bowtie antenna today and now I am receiving WGHP strongly. And where WMYV was sporadic it is now also very good. WFMY still fades in an out but its a lot better as well. About the only Triad area station I don't receive now is WGPX. But considering the ridiculous distance and drastic terrain between here and there I think its pretty close to miraculous that i receive nearly all of the stations from the triad.

We are still looking at all our options for the future and the chance of keeping channel 35 is still on the table even though it will take some legal work to make it happen if we choose to go that route. We are waiting to see what the FCC does on VHF power levels. We believe the level is too low, but because of the current rules in place, we can't increase power. There is a Notice of Proposed Rule Making before the FCC now that would allow VHF stations to increase power by 4 times. No one knows how the FCC will finally act on that proposal. We all are waiting to see.


Weren't the current VHF power levels chosen to duplicate the analog coverage area, and power density was not even considered? If VHF gets a power increase, won't that put your signal outside of your old analog coverage area if you are using the same antenna? Will this cause the VHF guys to be "Super Stations" when compared to the UHF's in regards to coverage area?

I know, I know...to many questions, but when I read these posts, they just pop into my head, and I can't help it !!

jkeels ...where do you live?

The only analog station left in the Triad is LP WGSR on channel 39. Good luck on seeing that one. They even have trouble reaching their digital site south of Reidsville. I tuned in yesterday and it looks like they have lost their digital microwave and they have taken an analog receiver to receive their analog from downtown Reidsville to put video on the digital and the signal quality into the digital transmitter is poor at best with the picture noisy and the luminance level too high on whites. It is pretty much unwatchable. So much for serving the Triad.

I've been very suspicious about the claims of WGSR's coverage area expanding as far south as northern High Point, where I am. Nevertheless, the first weekend I saw the reception reports in this thread, I flipped over to RF-47 and got a perfect lock...on WJZY Charlotte. My conclusion: the village of Brigadoon is easier to find than 'GSR.

I believe WLXI had to do an analog receiver backup for their digital transmitter for a month or so last year. It was kind of fascinating watching the picture degrade as the day went along, but it really made you wonder what the heck was going on.

Weren't the current VHF power levels chosen to duplicate the analog coverage area, and power density was not even considered?

Yes, but they don't.

If VHF gets a power increase, won't that put your signal outside of your old analog coverage area if you are using the same antenna? Will this cause the VHF guys to be "Super Stations" when compared to the UHF's in regards to coverage area?

Not that I can see. Having both VHF and UHF signals up at the same time it is pretty obvious the coverages and signal strengths don't match. With both signals from the same tower and the UHF signal 100 ft lower in center point radiation, the UHF is out performing the VHF by a wide margin. Viewers out on the edge but within our 38 dbu digital contour (VHF uses a different figure than the 41 dbu of UHF) with outside VHF/UHF antennas have a watchable UHF digital signal and no hint of a VHF signal. There just isn't any signal there on VHF. We can see it with RF signal meters. Those stations with pre-transition VHF assignments almost 100% of the time have higher ERPs verses post-transition VHF assignments. The difference being that the pre-transition assignments were based on different criteria than post transition assignments. When we first looked at staying on VHF, the numbers showed an ERP of 20kw. When the channel election process started it had been reduced to 15 kw. In the end we got 11.5 kW. Truth is, 20 kw would have gotten close but even that is still lower than it needs to be but 11.5 kw is just ridiculous. For a full power station, we have LP type coverage on VHF. The FCC made assumptions on receiver and antenna specs for VHF as time went on that are not real world so they have underestimated the amount of power needed to replicate analog VHF coverage. UHF had the same issue issue early on and that is why all UHF stations were allowed to maximize even if it meant the station would have a MUCH larger digital coverage than analog. VHF wasn't afforded that (the FCC assumed that VHF would always outperform UHF no matter what they allowed for UHF) and we are seeing the result of that. The issue now is, with so many UHF only antennas in the marketplace and so many 1 VHF only markets, it is debatable whether power increases as high as 100 kw ERP will really make a difference on VHF now. If the playing field was still level as it had been in the analog world, then yes, your point would be valid, but at this point, digital UHF has a distinct advantage over digital VHF due to the overcompensation of station maximization on UHF allowed by the FCC. Mobile DTV is a whole 'nuther issue to itself when talk over VHF vs UHF comes up.

I've been very suspicious about the claims of WGSR's coverage area expanding as far south as northern High Point, where I am. Nevertheless, the first weekend I saw the reception reports in this thread, I flipped over to RF-47 and got a perfect lock...on WJZY Charlotte. My conclusion: the village of Brigadoon is easier to find than 'GSR.

With an outside antenna at 30 feet, you probably can in northern High Point. That is what the FCC bases coverages on, not indoor antennas. Never have. Last couple of weeks, WGSR-LD has been up and down with transmitter problems and microwave problems. I tuned in other there the other night and it looks like to get the transmitter back on the air, they are taking their analog ch 39 signal and putting into the ch 47 transmitter. The signal is so weak to the digital site, it is mostly unwatchable.

I believe WLXI had to do an analog receiver backup for their digital transmitter for a month or so last year. It was kind of fascinating watching the picture degrade as the day went along, but it really made you wonder what the heck was going on.

That was the standard delivery method for WLXI until about 6 months ago when they installed their digital microwave to run the HD stream. Back in 2004 the reception of channel 61 at the digital site was so poor that that the noise in the picture would interfere with color burst and the picture would go through a rainbow of colors! No one was watching and WLXI didn't care. They now have a 13 GHz studio to transmitter link that will fade on occasion more than the 7 GHz studio to transmitter links the other stations use. The problem is, there aren't any more 7 GHz channels available in the area so they had no choice but to use 13 GHz.

That was the standard delivery method for WLXI until about 6 months ago when they installed their digital microwave to run the HD stream. Back in 2004 the reception of channel 61 at the digital site was so poor that that the noise in the picture would interfere with color burst and the picture would go through a rainbow of colors! No one was watching and WLXI didn't care. They now have a 13 GHz studio to transmitter link that will fade on occasion more than the 7 GHz studio to transmitter links the other stations use. The problem is, there aren't any more 7 GHz channels available in the area so they had no choice but to use 13 GHz.

The 13 Ghz freq works pretty well but our problem with it is equipment. We have one set of gear with no backup and it has not proven to be the most reliable stuff out there. We are currently using a loaner transmitter/receiver while ours is being repaired after a failure back in April.

I flipped over to RF-47 and got a perfect lock...on WJZY Charlotte. My conclusion: the village of Brigadoon is easier to find than 'GSR.


Interestingly enough we have a lcd set in the station that gets 35-1 (Fox 8), 35-3&4 Ion.

With an outside antenna at 30 feet, you probably can in northern High Point. That is what the FCC bases coverages on, not indoor antennas. Never have. Last couple of weeks, WGSR-LD has been up and down with transmitter problems and microwave problems. I tuned in other there the other night and it looks like to get the transmitter back on the air, they are taking their analog ch 39 signal and putting into the ch 47 transmitter. The signal is so weak to the digital site, it is mostly unwatchable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been advocating the 30 foot concept from day one. I don't know how many posts I wrote advocating 30 foot antennas in the past, but it was quite a few, and likely near one hundred posts.

I was not a big fan of 8-VSB at first, but with the new power levels everyone is running, 8-VSB is not as big a drawback as I originally thought, especially if you have an antenna that is...Get this..30 feet in the air !!

The 30 foot rule is just a general concept that does not apply in every situation, but if you want the most reliable reception possible with minimum drop outs, PUT YOUR ANTENNA OUTSIDE, AND AS HIGH UP AS POSSIBLE, and you will improve your reception greatly.

The 13 Ghz freq works pretty well but our problem with it is equipment. We have one set of gear with no backup and it has not proven to be the most reliable stuff out there. We are currently using a loaner transmitter/receiver while ours is being repaired after a failure back in April.

Every time it rains hard, I hold my breath for you guys. We will on occasion loose our 13 GHZ ICR link from Greensboro but we are just over the Fresnel Zone clearance on that one.

I was at 20% for WGHP 35 this morning, but never could bring in a picture. Very close though.

I was at 20% for WGHP 35 this morning, but never could bring in a picture. Very close though.

You didn't strain enough! :) Should have tried 8! :D

You didn't strain enough! :) Should have tried 8! :D


I tried 8. I was getting WFXI no matter which way I turned, or I guess should say sat?:D

Yes, but they don't.



Not that I can see. Having both VHF and UHF signals up at the same time it is pretty obvious the coverages and signal strengths don't match. With both signals from the same tower and the UHF signal 100 ft lower in center point radiation, the UHF is out performing the VHF by a wide margin. Viewers out on the edge but within our 38 dbu digital contour (VHF uses a different figure than the 41 dbu of UHF) with outside VHF/UHF antennas have a watchable UHF digital signal and no hint of a VHF signal. There just isn't any signal there on VHF. We can see it with RF signal meters. Those stations with pre-transition VHF assignments almost 100% of the time have higher ERPs verses post-transition VHF assignments. The difference being that the pre-transition assignments were based on different criteria than post transition assignments. When we first looked at staying on VHF, the numbers showed an ERP of 20kw. When the channel election process started it had been reduced to 15 kw. In the end we got 11.5 kW. Truth is, 20 kw would have gotten close but even that is still lower than it needs to be but 11.5 kw is just ridiculous. For a full power station, we have LP type coverage on VHF. The FCC made assumptions on receiver and antenna specs for VHF as time went on that are not real world so they have underestimated the amount of power needed to replicate analog VHF coverage. UHF had the same issue issue early on and that is why all UHF stations were allowed to maximize even if it meant the station would have a MUCH larger digital coverage than analog. VHF wasn't afforded that (the FCC assumed that VHF would always outperform UHF no matter what they allowed for UHF) and we are seeing the result of that. The issue now is, with so many UHF only antennas in the marketplace and so many 1 VHF only markets, it is debatable whether power increases as high as 100 kw ERP will really make a difference on VHF now. If the playing field was still level as it had been in the analog world, then yes, your point would be valid, but at this point, digital UHF has a distinct advantage over digital VHF due to the overcompensation of station maximization on UHF allowed by the FCC. Mobile DTV is a whole 'nuther issue to itself when talk over VHF vs UHF comes up.
WOLO at 43.7kW on VHF 8 is extremely strong (signal 70-80% full time) over 60 miles from the transmitter. WIS at 57kW on VHF 10 is even stronger (signal 75-85% full time) at over 60 miles away. My antenna is 37 feet in the air with a pre-amp.

Mobile DTV is a whole 'nuther issue to itself when talk over VHF vs UHF comes up.

I am not the least bit excited about mobile DTV. In Virginia, it is illegal to have a video screen that has live motion video within the drivers view. Do we really need mobile tv?

Who wants to watch TV on a small cell phone display anyway.They are now just trying to extract every possible penny from consumers pockets that in reality, don't really need half of the tech toys they now have.

I don't even see the need for texting, as it is much quicker just to call the person and say what you need to say and get it over with. And I have no need at all for twitter,face book or my space. It seems to me that there is so much more to do in life than document your daily boring routine to a bunch of people who are also boring. If they weren't boring, they would not have a need to keep up with other peoples boring life's. Whats the point?

WOLO at 43.7kW on VHF 8 is extremely strong (signal 70-80% full time) over 60 miles from the transmitter. WIS at 57kW on VHF 10 is even stronger (signal 75-85% full time) at over 60 miles away. My antenna is 37 feet in the air with a pre-amp.

You make my case.

I am not the least bit excited about mobile DTV. In Virginia, it is illegal to have a video screen that has live motion video within the drivers view. Do we really need mobile tv?

Who wants to watch TV on a small cell phone display anyway.They are now just trying to extract every possible penny from consumers pockets that in reality, don't really need half of the tech toys they now have.

I don't even see the need for texting, as it is much quicker just to call the person and say what you need to say and get it over with. And I have no need at all for twitter,face book or my space. It seems to me that there is so much more to do in life than document your daily boring routine to a bunch of people who are also boring. If they weren't boring, they would not have a need to keep up with other peoples boring life's. Whats the point?

LOL, you and I, FOX TV, would get along quite nicely:)

LOL, you and I, FOX TV, would get along quite nicely:)


Originally Posted by FOX TV View Post
I am not the least bit excited about mobile DTV. In Virginia, it is illegal to have a video screen that has live motion video within the drivers view. Do we really need mobile tv?

Who wants to watch TV on a small cell phone display anyway.They are now just trying to extract every possible penny from consumers pockets that in reality, don't really need half of the tech toys they now have.

I don't even see the need for texting, as it is much quicker just to call the person and say what you need to say and get it over with. And I have no need at all for twitter,face book or my space. It seems to me that there is so much more to do in life than document your daily boring routine to a bunch of people who are also boring. If they weren't boring, they would not have a need to keep up with other peoples boring life's. Whats the point?


Don't get me wrong, I am not against new technology that is actually useful, but the desire to be blindly led into thinking you really need all of this stuff is so rampant among the younger crowd that it just gets ridicules at times.

The false sense that we actually need all of this Mr Roboto technology is mind boggling at best, and bank breaking for a lot of people. I see people walking down the road these days talking on a cell phone when they don't even have reliable transportation. Where is the logic and the common sense these days?

Leave it up to the technology companies to come up with new, but sometimes unneeded technology, just to keep their own in house economy rolling along. Now thats a nice marketing strategy that's so common these days, and it is so easy to lead these blind "Sheeple" into thinking they really can't do without this stuff, just because their friends have one. DUH !!

I think that the title says it all. What is this?

Originally Posted by FOX TV View Post
I am not the least bit excited about mobile DTV. In Virginia, it is illegal to have a video screen that has live motion video within the drivers view. Do we really need mobile tv?

Who wants to watch TV on a small cell phone display anyway.They are now just trying to extract every possible penny from consumers pockets that in reality, don't really need half of the tech toys they now have.

I don't even see the need for texting, as it is much quicker just to call the person and say what you need to say and get it over with. And I have no need at all for twitter,face book or my space. It seems to me that there is so much more to do in life than document your daily boring routine to a bunch of people who are also boring. If they weren't boring, they would not have a need to keep up with other peoples boring life's. Whats the point?


Don't get me wrong, I am not against new technology that is actually useful, but the desire to be blindly led into thinking you really need all of this stuff is so rampant among the younger crowd that it just gets ridicules at times.

The false sense that we actually need all of this Mr Roboto technology is mind boggling at best, and bank breaking for a lot of people. I see people walking down the road these days talking on a cell phone when they don't even have reliable transportation. Where is the logic and the common sense these days?

Leave it up to the technology companies to come up with new, but sometimes unneeded technology, just to keep their own in house economy rolling along. Now thats a nice marketing strategy that's so common these days, and it is so easy to lead these blind "Sheeple" into thinking they really can't do without this stuff, just because their friends have one. DUH !!

Exactly true. When ones computer is down, it is NOT an emergency because they cannot access Facebook! (now as far as AVSforum, that would be an emergency! LOL, but it is needed for a lot of us to keep up on what is happening and/or to learn new and exciting things:)

I am not the least bit excited about mobile DTV. In Virginia, it is illegal to have a video screen that has live motion video within the drivers view. Do we really need mobile tv?

Who wants to watch TV on a small cell phone display anyway.They are now just trying to extract every possible penny from consumers pockets that in reality, don't really need half of the tech toys they now have.

I don't even see the need for texting, as it is much quicker just to call the person and say what you need to say and get it over with. And I have no need at all for twitter,face book or my space. It seems to me that there is so much more to do in life than document your daily boring routine to a bunch of people who are also boring. If they weren't boring, they would not have a need to keep up with other peoples boring life's. Whats the point?


Here's one:

The loss of analog TV has made millions of portable rabbit ear TVs useless for tailgating. I have always carried one to football games so I could keep up with early games while in the parking lot. I don't have the money, room in my truck, or desire to haul a 32" LCD, power inverter, OTA receiver, and antenna to 6-10 games a year, and then risk having it stolen during the game from my truck. If I can whip out my phone and watch the end of a close game, why wouldn't I?

Also, I can't believe there aren't at least a few 4-9" battery operated digital TVs out there for a hundred bucks or so.

Here's one:

The loss of analog TV has made millions of portable rabbit ear TVs useless for tailgating. I have always carried one to football games so I could keep up with early games while in the parking lot. I don't have the money, room in my truck, or desire to haul a 32" LCD, power inverter, OTA receiver, and antenna to 6-10 games a year, and then risk having it stolen during the game from my truck. If I can whip out my phone and watch the end of a close game, why wouldn't I?

Also, I can't believe there aren't at least a few 4-9" battery operated digital TVs out there for a hundred bucks or so.

Radio Shack has a decent 7" for right around the $130ish range. My best friend, just bought one for checking analogs on TS reader trips to the markets and it works very well. Has a pretty good ATSC tuner too boot (not as great as the Zenith CECB, but not nearly as bad as a 5th gen)

Here's one:

The loss of analog TV has made millions of portable rabbit ear TVs useless for tailgating. I have always carried one to football games so I could keep up with early games while in the parking lot. I don't have the money, room in my truck, or desire to haul a 32" LCD, power inverter, OTA receiver, and antenna to 6-10 games a year, and then risk having it stolen during the game from my truck. If I can whip out my phone and watch the end of a close game, why wouldn't I?

Also, I can't believe there aren't at least a few 4-9" battery operated digital TVs out there for a hundred bucks or so.

There is one 12 volt model of a compact DTV on the market that would work for tailgating. It is made by, or at least bears the COBY name, and is sold by B&H Photo video out of New York, and is also available at Amazon.com. It is a 10.2 inch LCD display, model TF-TV1022.

I have one at home and it has a fairly decent tuner, with RGB Computer input, along with A/V inputs, and it sells for around $150, and works on a 12 cigarette lighter plug (Not Included) that I made up myself. If you are just looking for a tailgating TV, or a 12 volt DC powered emergency TV set, This is a decent set that can be hidden under the seat of a pick up truck or car.

Here's one:

The loss of analog TV has made millions of portable rabbit ear TVs useless for tailgating. I have always carried one to football games so I could keep up with early games while in the parking lot. I don't have the money, room in my truck, or desire to haul a 32" LCD, power inverter, OTA receiver, and antenna to 6-10 games a year, and then risk having it stolen during the game from my truck. If I can whip out my phone and watch the end of a close game, why wouldn't I?

Also, I can't believe there aren't at least a few 4-9" battery operated digital TVs out there for a hundred bucks or so.

You don't need to haul the 32 inch LCD -
consider the following -
small TV
CECB
inverter (with the right CECB, you can even get a battery pack)
UHF antenna

Posters above suggested that Radio Shack portable or others - even on that - the builtin antenna was not very good - an external antenna helped it much. For portable use - figure something like the CM4221 4 bay.

I can't believe there aren't at least a few 4-9" battery operated digital TVs out there for a hundred bucks or so.

They're out there. I just did an amazon.com search for a portable TV, and I came up with:

$88.99 SuperSonic SC195TV 7" Portable TFT LCD TV with ATSC Digital TV Tuner
$99.99 Viore PLC7V95 7-Inch Portable LCD TV with Built-in Tuner
$109.99 Tivax HiRez7 Portable 7-Inch Digital Widescreen LCD TV
$109.98 Haier HLT71 7-Inch Portable LCD TV
$114.98 Axion AXN-8701 7-Inch Widescreen Portable Handheld TV
$109.98 Eviant T7 7-Inch Portable LCD TV
$126.99 CTA Digital TV-P7 7-Inch Portable LCD TV
$109.99 iVIEW iVIEW-780PTV Portable 7-Inch Digital LCD TV
$129.99 Supersonic SC499D / SC-499D / SC-499D 9-inch Portable AC/DC LCD TV
$129.99 NAXA NX566 9" Digital LCD TV

Looks like I found sizes from 7" through 9" at prices from $88 through $129.

I know nothing about these, other than they all are portable, many come with car-power cords, most seem to have internal rechargeable batteries that last an hour or two before needing recharging.

My personal Sony-Watchman, with the Yellow waterproof case, and the odd shaped CRT is now just about useless. (it does have an FM radio, so it is not yet ready for trash) I do need a new TV for storms.

Joe L.

I think that the title says it all. What is this?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! He will soon be gone! :D

It actually says BK HAUL. News wanted to try an experiment during the newscast. After the news it will disappear.

We had our new FOX net receivers installed today. We will see how well they work with our old splicer. That isn't supposed to be replaced until the Fall with splicer 2.0.

Oh, if you see any screw ups, that will be my fault. I am working Master Control tonight. Poor viewers!

They're out there. I just did an amazon.com search for a portable TV, and I came up with:

$88.99 SuperSonic SC195TV 7" Portable TFT LCD TV with ATSC Digital TV Tuner
$99.99 Viore PLC7V95 7-Inch Portable LCD TV with Built-in Tuner
$109.99 Tivax HiRez7 Portable 7-Inch Digital Widescreen LCD TV
$109.98 Haier HLT71 7-Inch Portable LCD TV
$114.98 Axion AXN-8701 7-Inch Widescreen Portable Handheld TV
$109.98 Eviant T7 7-Inch Portable LCD TV
$126.99 CTA Digital TV-P7 7-Inch Portable LCD TV
$109.99 iVIEW iVIEW-780PTV Portable 7-Inch Digital LCD TV
$129.99 Supersonic SC499D / SC-499D / SC-499D 9-inch Portable AC/DC LCD TV
$129.99 NAXA NX566 9" Digital LCD TV

Looks like I found sizes from 7" through 9" at prices from $88 through $129.

I know nothing about these, other than they all are portable, many come with car-power cords, most seem to have internal rechargeable batteries that last an hour or two before needing recharging.

My personal Sony-Watchman, with the Yellow waterproof case, and the odd shaped CRT is now just about useless. (it does have an FM radio, so it is not yet ready for trash) I do need a new TV for storms.

Joe L.

Nice! Thanks, man.

Was wondering if anyone has been able to try out North State's new Plex system? There is very little info about it on their website, but I understand it is not solely restricted to fiber (ie, DSL customers may be able to get it).

I have north state DSL in Adams Farm, and its speed reliability is not terribly good. I pay for 3M but barely get 1.5 most of the time...sometimes a lot less. Plex offers up to 20M apparently.

This could be an option. If not I am toying with Earthlink Cable...i HATE giving money to TWC, and I know Earthlink uses TW's lines...so they will get some of the money...i really don't want to do that if I don't have to...but my unreliable DSL is a problem.

We had our new FOX net receivers installed today. We will see how well they work with our old splicer. That isn't supposed to be replaced until the Fall with splicer 2.0.

Oh, if you see any screw ups, that will be my fault. I am working Master Control tonight. Poor viewers!

We are scheduled for August. Let me know about any issues you see with the new equipment, as we will be going through the same routine in a few weeks !!

We are scheduled for August. Let me know about any issues you see with the new equipment, as we will be going through the same routine in a few weeks !!

There is some issue with RX A. It is only showing one stream out to the splicer and that caused some problems Saturday for the ball game. Not sure it is a hardware or software issue. Maybe we will find out today.

We haven't been told when we will get the new splicers. Just sometime before the end of the year. Oh yeah, there is no SDI/AES outputs for the downconvert. It is analog composite and analog left right audio. If you don't have a way to convert them to digital if your switcher takes it, then have your converters ready when the receiver rack insert arrives. Once the RF is good, USSI leaves the rest to the station.

There is some issue with RX A. It is only showing one stream out to the splicer and that caused some problems Saturday for the ball game. Not sure it is a hardware or software issue. Maybe we will find out today.

We haven't been told when we will get the new splicers. Just sometime before the end of the year. Oh yeah, there is no SDI/AES outputs for the downconvert. It is analog composite and analog left right audio. If you don't have a way to convert them to digital if your switcher takes it, then have your converters ready when the receiver rack insert arrives. Once the RF is good, USSI leaves the rest to the station.

Thanks for the heads up. I am sure it will be tons O fun. Did your splicer flip out over the weekend? Ours would not do HD prme at all, and it blocked our program guide. If you hit the bypass switch, the data would pass, but put it back inline and no data. We had to re-boot it this morning to get guide info back, and cross our fingers for tonights HD prime time feed. Ain't digital fun?

Thanks for the heads up. I am sure it will be tons O fun. Did your splicer flip out over the weekend? Ours would not do HD prme at all, and it blocked our program guide. If you hit the bypass switch, the data would pass, but put it back inline and no data. We had to re-boot it this morning to get guide info back, and cross our fingers for tonights HD prime time feed. Ain't digital fun?

The receiver issue turned out to be someone left it in install mode so net couldn't control it. As far as the splicer, ours just went belly up during prime Friday night. They overnighted one on Saturday and I got it installed by the time the baseball game started, but that is when we found out the receiver wouldn't switch to the correct stream so until I could get back to the station and change the ASI cable from receiver A to B, we were upconverting. Saturday was a fun "network day" to say the least.

Was wondering if anyone has been able to try out North State's new Plex system? There is very little info about it on their website, but I understand it is not solely restricted to fiber (ie, DSL customers may be able to get it).

I have north state DSL in Adams Farm, and its speed reliability is not terribly good. I pay for 3M but barely get 1.5 most of the time...sometimes a lot less. Plex offers up to 20M apparently.

This could be an option. If not I am toying with Earthlink Cable...i HATE giving money to TWC, and I know Earthlink uses TW's lines...so they will get some of the money...i really don't want to do that if I don't hav5.1e to...but my unreliable DSL is a problem.

I Have had North State DSL for several years. I was paying for 3.0, but got only 1.5 to 2.5. About four weeks ago I changed to plex 6.0 (about a $4.00 increase). I now always get 5.1 down and .61 up (checking with speedtest.net). Much better, and up speed is faster than the RoadRunner speed that my friends get.

I know 20M is possible because I had it (actual 20.2 down and .76 up) for two days until North State realized their mistake. It seemed very fast, and now I am considering upgrading to 10.0.

The only thing they changed at my house was the modem. The tech said this was not necessary in many cases, but in my case it was because it was a older model that they do not use anymore.

I live about three miles south of Thomasville and the node station is very close to me.

This could be an option. If not I am toying with Earthlink Cable...i HATE giving money to TWC, and I know Earthlink uses TW's lines...so they will get some of the money...i really don't want to do that if I don't have to...but my unreliable DSL is a problem.

I had Earthlink for a long time, then got screwed when they attempted phone service. I was so angry I switched to Roadrunner - same cable lines - but faster, and in my case, cheaper.

I had Earthlink for a long time, then got screwed when they attempted phone service. I was so angry I switched to Roadrunner - same cable lines - but faster, and in my case, cheaper.

How so? Right now, I can get earthlink 7M for $30 a month for 6 months, and then up to $50 a month. TWC has no deal right now, just straight $50 a month.

I will only be in the area another year, two tops. So I'd be praying that the whole bandwidth cap thing will be held off until I can move and escape back to FiOS.

How so? Right now, I can get earthlink 7M for $30 a month for 6 months, and then up to $50 a month. TWC has no deal right now, just straight $50 a month.

I will only be in the area another year, two tops. So I'd be praying that the whole bandwidth cap thing will be held off until I can move and escape back to FiOS.

Bundle. That's how. Mind you, I did this 5 or so years ago, but the Earthlink debacle is still so fresh in my mind, I just cringe when I hear their name.

I have a deal with TWC... the 7M Roadcrawler package along with Broadcast Cable is $43.45 + taxes, plus I have their "Variety Pack" for 7.99/mo (services useful to me).

Then again I did have the digital cable package at one point and was tired of paying over $130 a month for all of it, so I tried wheeling and dealing to get a special rate that I used to have a few years ago (but lost when we moved). I failed to get it, so went with DirecTV for the TV service, but given the dish installation is in a marginal position (lots of trees that we can't chop down) I wanted to keep the broadcast cable as a backup.

Here is a somewhat technical web page about antennas. It is a great resource for anyone who wants to know more about antenna gain figures and other characteristics of the most popular antennas now on the market.



http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html

This page is part of “An HDTV Primer”, which starts at www.hdtvprimer.com

Here is a somewhat technical web page about antennas. It is a great resource for anyone who wants to know more about antenna gain figures and other characteristics of the most popular antennas now on the market.



http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html

This page is part of “An HDTV Primer”, which starts at www.hdtvprimer.comThis might be a better link on the same site for many: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

And I thought car-audio speaker marketing types were the worst ones who lived in a fantasy world of specifications. Next thing you know, you'll tell me the "whole house antenna" that turns all the wiring in my house into a super antenna doesn't work either :D

This might be a better link on the same site for many: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

And I thought car-audio speaker marketing types were the worst ones who lived in a fantasy world of specifications. Next thing you know, you'll tell me the "whole house antenna" that turns all the wiring in my house into a super antenna doesn't work either :D

No - it doesn't - in my foil covered faraday cage :D

No - it doesn't - in my foil covered faraday cage :D

And I can't show you a picture of my "Ghost Buster" antenna, as it is still in the development stages, but it most likely will not work in a Faraday cage either !! Does the "Whole House" antenna concept work for Digital? Never thought about that concept for DTV...Hummm..

Nikola Tesla, The father of 3 phase or poly phase power and radio broadcasting (Not Marconi, as the incorrect history books say), He is my hero...

Well, they shifted them around again here in Greensboro. We also seem to have lost TWC's Channel 14 news this time too. Also lost HBO Signature but I never expected that one to stay anyways.

I wish they would just set the QAM channels and leave them the &%$# alone instead of changing them around every couple of weeks. It takes almost an hour to rescan and delete the 200+ scrambled channels every time this happens.

Here are the open QAM channels on the Greensboro side of TWC as I saw them this morning:

87-1 WMYV-HD
87-2 WMYV-SD
87-3 WXII - THIS TV
87-4 WFMY - WX
87-5 UNC KIDS
87-9 UNC TV -SD
91-1 WCWG - HD
91-3 UNC TV - HD
91-5 UNC NC
91-6 UNC ED
103-1 WGHP - SD
103-2 WGHP-HD
103-3 WXII-HD
103-4 WXII-SD
104-1 WXLV - HD
104-2 WXLV-SD
104-3 WFMY-SD
104-4 WFMY-HD
104-5 WLXI-SD

Well, they shifted them around again here in Greensboro. We also seem to have lost TWC's Channel 14 news this time too. Also lost HBO Signature but I never expected that one to stay anyways.

I wish they would just set the QAM channels and leave them the &%$# alone instead of changing them around every couple of weeks. It takes almost an hour to rescan and delete the 200+ scrambled channels every time this happens.

Ever give any thought as to that's WHY they do it - to "encourage" you to use their Digital /HD box ?

Well, they shifted them around again here in Greensboro. We also seem to have lost TWC's Channel 14 news this time too. Also lost HBO Signature but I never expected that one to stay anyways.

I wish they would just set the QAM channels and leave them the &%$# alone instead of changing them around every couple of weeks. It takes almost an hour to rescan and delete the 200+ scrambled channels every time this happens.

I still have News14 on 117.414.

A BIG thanks to Foxeng for the updated channel list. You just saved me a ton of time. I'm going to keep this thread bookmarked, it's saved me hours of channel searching.

Foxeng, any idea if Fox8 is planning on adding bars for full 16:9 during the newscast like WFMY and WXII?

Foxeng, any idea if Fox8 is planning on adding bars for full 16:9 during the newscast like WFMY and WXII?

We have the technology to do it and much more.

How so? Right now, I can get earthlink 7M for $30 a month for 6 months, and then up to $50 a month. TWC has no deal right now, just straight $50 a month.

I will only be in the area another year, two tops. So I'd be praying that the whole bandwidth cap thing will be held off until I can move and escape back to FiOS.


TWC DOES have a deal but you HAVE to have Cable Already....so you can get RR Lite for $19/month for a year but only if you are already a customer....if not best bet is to bundle

Ever give any thought as to that's WHY they do it - to "encourage" you to use their Digital /HD box ?

They're required to carry those channels, they need to just get over it and leave them be. Also, they require me to get more than the $9.99/month cable to get a box and it's not worth another $40/month to me.

I still have News14 on 117.414.

A BIG thanks to Foxeng for the updated channel list. You just saved me a ton of time. I'm going to keep this thread bookmarked, it's saved me hours of channel searching.

Foxeng, any idea if Fox8 is planning on adding bars for full 16:9 during the newscast like WFMY and WXII?


I'm not detecting that channel on my Samsung H260F. This is with a scan in STD mode, perhaps I need to scan in one of the other 2 modes.

Here are the open QAM channels on the Greensboro side of TWC as I saw them this morning:

87-1 WMYV-HD
87-2 WMYV-SD
87-3 WXII - THIS TV
87-4 WFMY - WX
87-5 UNC KIDS
87-9 UNC TV -SD
91-1 WCWG - HD
91-3 UNC TV - HD
91-5 UNC NC
91-6 UNC ED
103-1 WGHP - SD
103-2 WGHP-HD
103-3 WXII-HD
103-4 WXII-SD
104-1 WXLV - HD
104-2 WXLV-SD
104-3 WFMY-SD
104-4 WFMY-HD
104-5 WLXI-SD

When I turned the TV on tonight, channels had moved around from yesterday, I'm getting sick of this. Oh, also add 104-6 ION to your list, just picked that one up too. A re-scan got your list, a couple of PPV preview channels and Ion. It's just a PITA to go through the 200+ scrambled channels it picks up and delete them all.

I'm not detecting that channel on my Samsung H260F. This is with a scan in STD mode, perhaps I need to scan in one of the other 2 modes.

You will need to scan the IRC. The list I posted was gotten by scanning with a H260.

Well, they shifted them around again here in Greensboro. We also seem to have lost TWC's Channel 14 news this time too. Also lost HBO Signature but I never expected that one to stay anyways.

I wish they would just set the QAM channels and leave them the &%$# alone instead of changing them around every couple of weeks. It takes almost an hour to rescan and delete the 200+ scrambled channels every time this happens.

Amen, and amen. I have exactly the same problem, and exactly the same feeling.

FoxEng, thanks for that list. I really appreciate it. :)

Ever give any thought as to that's WHY they do it - to "encourage" you to use their Digital /HD box ?

This is one of the things that absolutely drives me up the wall with TWC. I just refuse to pay the extra money to have one, when my tv does this for me with the HD signal. I know I'm in the minority of those who don't want PPV, music channels, and the other things on the box. I figure if they keep moving them around, it only encourages me more to NOT have the box and keep finding the channels...and enjoy my $10 a month cable bill.

When I turned the TV on tonight, channels had moved around from yesterday, I'm getting sick of this. Oh, also add 104-6 ION to your list, just picked that one up too. A re-scan got your list, a couple of PPV preview channels and Ion. It's just a PITA to go through the 200+ scrambled channels it picks up and delete them all.

I wonder if they shifted the channels around in Fayetteville again? Guess I will find out when I get there... lol Stupid TWC. :mad:

This is one of the things that absolutely drives me up the wall with TWC. I just refuse to pay the extra money to have one, when my tv does this for me with the HD signal. I know I'm in the minority of those who don't want PPV, music channels, and the other things on the box. I figure if they keep moving them around, it only encourages me more to NOT have the box and keep finding the channels...and enjoy my $10 a month cable bill.

I wouldn't mind the PPV but they won't rent a box to you unless you have the expanded tier. I'm not paying $40/month more for the privilege of PAY per view. Seems to me they're losing my money to Netflix and Blockbuster for no reason. I'm sure the boxes can be set to only allow the same channels I get now while allowing PPV. <shrug>, their loss.

I wonder if they shifted the channels around in Fayetteville again? Guess I will find out when I get there... lol Stupid TWC. :mad:

Fayetteville is controlled out of Raleigh.

They're required to carry those channels, they need to just get over it and leave them be. Also, they require me to get more than the $9.99/month cable to get a box and it's not worth another $40/month to me.

Hey - I'm not disagreeing with you, just listing a possible motivation for TWC to do the channel fruit basket upset on you guys.

I haven't had cable in my house since 2001 when Dish started offering locals. Now I still get those, as well as my OTA ones - channel numbers never move on OTA :D

Fayetteville is controlled out of Raleigh.

Ok.

They had still changed some channels. Only the locals were in the same place.

Watching the NBC News tonight I noticed that TWC ch 540 seems to be off air while the "analog" ch 11 is broadcasting fine over the cable. I would have thought that with the conversion to DTV completed that if one channel (540 or 11) was out then both channels (11 or 540) would be out. Can someone here explain why tonight channel 540 is blank yet 11 is transmitting as if nothing was wrong. I guess if could be a problem on TWCs end but my gut tells me it is a WXII problem. Just curious .... thx

I can tell you how TWC does it. They have one OTA receiver/fiber connection that is split 3 ways. One goes on the 5xx channels and is the HD, one goes to a SD encoder for the digital cable boxes (channel 10 is really this SD encoder) and a third goes to the 2-13 channels analog modulators for sets with no cable boxes. It sounds like one of the paths is down but the receive path is working.

I can tell you how TWC does it. They have one OTA receiver/fiber connection that is split 3 ways. One goes on the 5xx channels and is the HD, one goes to a SD encoder for the digital cable boxes (channel 10 is really this SD encoder) and a third goes to the 2-13 channels analog modulators for sets with no cable boxes. It sounds like one of the paths is down but the receive path is working.

thx .... sounds like a logical deduction to me ... here I was ready to lay the blame on WXII.

... here I was ready to lay the blame on WXII.

Go ahead! It won't hurt my feelings! :D

The only analog station left in the Triad is LP WGSR on channel 39. Good luck on seeing that one. They even have trouble reaching their digital site south of Reidsville. I tuned in yesterday and it looks like they have lost their digital microwave and they have taken an analog receiver to receive their analog from downtown Reidsville to put video on the digital and the signal quality into the digital transmitter.

Don't give up on us yet! We're hoping that new equipment arrives by the first of the week to correct things. One thing I'll say . . . digital TV is a learning experience.

Later . . . . Matt

Don't give up on us yet! We're hoping that new equipment arrives by the first of the week to correct things. One thing I'll say . . . digital TV is a learning experience.

Later . . . . Matt

Yes, the learning curve is more than 90 degrees and what worked in the analog world doesn't always work in the digital world. ;)

Amen, and amen. I have exactly the same problem, and exactly the same feeling.


Add another amen. I had lost my FOX OTA signal since my antenna is only VHF and not UHF. Since they rescrambled the QAM channels, I was in the dark on FOX HD programming and not looking forward to football season!

I too wish they would leave the QAM freaking channels alone.

Hi guys, not sure this is the best place to ask this question but I just purchased a new 50" Panasonic plasma that will be hooked up to TWC- wanted to know if anyone has a history with an ISF Calibration tech in the Triad area. I live in NW GSO so would prefer someone in Greensboro. Anyone have some suggestions?
Thanks, Charlie

The MSK-200 is the newest do all signal analyzer on the market. This thing does it all. It will analyze Cable qam, analog TV signals, digital and analog satellite signals with an LNB power supply. It has oscilloscope along with spectrum analyzer capability, along with closed caption capability and the ability to actually show the video and audio from the stream it is analyzing, and it runs on the Linux platform instead of Windows (Hear that Microsoft)

MSK-200 Universal TV Signal Analyzer

The MSK-200 TV Signal Analyzer is six vital pieces of test equipment wrapped up into one compact device. Features include a full spectrum analyzer from 5MHz to 3.1 GHz, a realtime color constellation analyzer for all DVB standards, memory oscilloscope, MPEG and analog TV monitor, real-time MER/BER analyzer with in-depth measurement capabilities, and simultaneous spectrum and picture transport stream monitoring with its high quality digital/analogue receiver. Make transmission & reflected RF measurements with the built-in impulse analyzer. The MSK-200 even has a built-in internet browser and a full PC is integrated for user data processing and office tasks.

http://www.lbagroup.com/technology/MSK200_digital_analyzer.php


Look out Rhode and Schwarz, these guys are serious about the DTV test equipment market at a cheaper price !! It is built in Germany as is Rhode and Schwarz equipment.

The MSK-200 is the newest do all signal analyzer on the market. This thing does it all. It will analyze Cable qam, analog TV signals, digital and analog satellite signals with an LNB power supply. It has oscilloscope along with spectrum analyzer capability, along with closed caption capability and the ability to actually show the video and audio from the stream it is analyzing, and it runs on the Linux platform instead of Windows (Hear that Microsoft)

MSK-200 Universal TV Signal Analyzer

The MSK-200 TV Signal Analyzer is six vital pieces of test equipment wrapped up into one compact device. Features include a full spectrum analyzer from 5MHz to 3.1 GHz, a realtime color constellation analyzer for all DVB standards, memory oscilloscope, MPEG and analog TV monitor, real-time MER/BER analyzer with in-depth measurement capabilities, and simultaneous spectrum and picture transport stream monitoring with its high quality digital/analogue receiver. Make transmission & reflected RF measurements with the built-in impulse analyzer. The MSK-200 even has a built-in internet browser and a full PC is integrated for user data processing and office tasks.

http://www.lbagroup.com/technology/MSK200_digital_analyzer.php


Look out Rhode and Schwarz, these guys are serious about the DTV test equipment market at a cheaper price !! It is built in Germany as is Rhode and Schwarz equipment.

It is an OK unit. The one that was demo-ed for us in April didn't do ATSC even though it did do NTSC, PAL and SECAM and DVB COFDM. It is a European product (German). Good luck on customer support. At that time there was none in the US. If you had a problem (like this one didn't do ATSC) you had to call Germany on THEIR time and YOUR dime.

It is an OK unit. The one that was demo-ed for us in April didn't do ATSC even though it did do NTSC, PAL and SECAM and DVB COFDM. It is a European product (German). Good luck on customer support. At that time there was none in the US. If you had a problem (like this one didn't do ATSC) you had to call Germany on THEIR time and YOUR dime.



It is like any other piece of test equipment that is always under development. The one demonstrated to me last week now has all of the bells and whistles that the one demonstrated for you did not have. The one I saw last week retails for $14,000, which seems like a good deal for all that it does.

Try buying a ATSC stream analyzer and a good stand alone spec analyzer and a satellite identifier with an LNB power supply, and a built in oscilloscope, and see what the total comes up to, and I bet you will top $25,000 to $35,000 dollars easily.

I can't vouch for the support or quality of the device since it is new to me, but the concept is appealing with all of the things it can do, which is much more than the FSH3 unit from Rhode & Schwarz that is currently setting on my desk can do, and it is much easier to use on top of that.

Is WGHP still dual-running on both 8 and 35?

Is there anything new to report since mid-July? Any new insights, etc.?

I have been researching KWTV's problems out of Oklahoma City. They are at 62.2kW on 9 (at 465m) and are still having problems. As a result, they want to re-start 39.

Is WGHP still dual-running on both 8 and 35?

Yes. WGHP is still broadcasting on 8 at full power of 11.5 kw and channel 35 at 1,000 kw.

WGSR definitely has something more to show than analog static. We have the signal back up, thanks to some conventional computer technology.

Turns out that the link between studio and transmitter has been up and running the entire time since we installed it. All of the failures that have happened in our system have been in encoder, mux and the gear that connects them to the link, either on the studio or the transmitter end (and at least once, BOTH).

What got our system working again was Windows streaming technology. We're running a server with a very fast processor at the studio end streaming the video down the link to the transmitter. On that end, another computer with a very fast processor is decoding the stream, and a converter box changes the video from VGA to NTSC to feed the encoder.

All that remains is a little fine tuning of the NTSC analog video and an audio amp to bring up the sound to a reasonable level. I anticipate that the computers will require more maintenance than "hard-wired" boxes, but we're hoping that this system will perform with a reasonable amount of reliability until we find a supplier with equipment that more closely meets our needs for price and stability.

We have returned our digital signal to viewable quality with our own in-house efforts and not those of professional engineers. Turns out that we have some great talent at WGSR that, as this situation has turned desperate, have banded together to solve problems that we have been waiting on professionals to fix for more than six weeks.

I'm not sure what is going to happen now with some $30,000 of digital broadcast equipment now sitting useless and idle in our studio and transmitter racks. Heartland video, who we bought our gear from, has been a bear to deal with in both helping us solve issues and replacing equipment identified as not up to the needs of our situation by the engineers we hired to put it in. On more than one instance, Heartland told us their equipment was working and blamed the link transmission system, which has proven to be solid and reliable. They definitely should not use us as a reference.

We're looking at alternative encoders, and the multiplexer equipment to let us add at least one subchannel, which will probably go live early in 2010. Plus, some of you may be aware that Star News Corporation has purchased W18BG in Danville. Build-out of its digital signal on Ch. 23 will begin this fall. We're taking all of the bad experiences we've had going digital with WGSR, and promised ourselves that they will not be repeated with W18BG.

Give us a look, and if you see anything in our signal we can improve, let's discuss it here.

Later . . . . Matt

Here are the open QAM channels on the Greensboro side of TWC as I saw them this morning:

87-1 WMYV-HD
87-2 WMYV-SD
87-3 WXII - THIS TV
87-4 WFMY - WX
87-5 UNC KIDS
87-9 UNC TV -SD
91-1 WCWG - HD
91-3 UNC TV - HD
91-5 UNC NC
91-6 UNC ED
103-1 WGHP - SD
103-2 WGHP-HD
103-3 WXII-HD
103-4 WXII-SD
104-1 WXLV - HD
104-2 WXLV-SD
104-3 WFMY-SD
104-4 WFMY-HD
104-5 WLXI-SD



Wow...it seems as if these stations have been changed again....smh

WGSR definitely has something more to show than analog static. We have the signal back up, thanks to some conventional computer technology.

Turns out that the link between studio and transmitter has been up and running the entire time since we installed it. All of the failures that have happened in our system have been in encoder, mux and the gear that connects them to the link, either on the studio or the transmitter end (and at least once, BOTH).

What got our system working again was Windows streaming technology. We're running a server with a very fast processor at the studio end streaming the video down the link to the transmitter. On that end, another computer with a very fast processor is decoding the stream, and a converter box changes the video from VGA to NTSC to feed the encoder.

All that remains is a little fine tuning of the NTSC analog video and an audio amp to bring up the sound to a reasonable level. I anticipate that the computers will require more maintenance than "hard-wired" boxes, but we're hoping that this system will perform with a reasonable amount of reliability until we find a supplier with equipment that more closely meets our needs for price and stability.

We have returned our digital signal to viewable quality with our own in-house efforts and not those of professional engineers. Turns out that we have some great talent at WGSR that, as this situation has turned desperate, have banded together to solve problems that we have been waiting on professionals to fix for more than six weeks.

I'm not sure what is going to happen now with some $30,000 of digital broadcast equipment now sitting useless and idle in our studio and transmitter racks. Heartland video, who we bought our gear from, has been a bear to deal with in both helping us solve issues and replacing equipment identified as not up to the needs of our situation by the engineers we hired to put it in. On more than one instance, Heartland told us their equipment was working and blamed the link transmission system, which has proven to be solid and reliable. They definitely should not use us as a reference.

We're looking at alternative encoders, and the multiplexer equipment to let us add at least one subchannel, which will probably go live early in 2010. Plus, some of you may be aware that Star News Corporation has purchased W18BG in Danville. Build-out of its digital signal on Ch. 23 will begin this fall. We're taking all of the bad experiences we've had going digital with WGSR, and promised ourselves that they will not be repeated with W18BG.

Give us a look, and if you see anything in our signal we can improve, let's discuss it here.

Later . . . . Matt

I am surprised that you are having trouble with Heartland Video as a company. We use their services here at WFXR, and we have had great success with all of their help and support, and also with any of the Tandberg equipment we purchased from them. It does seem that lately they are getting away from some of the overpriced Tandberg equipment, and are now selling and supporting lesser known brands. Sorry to hear this, as we have been very satisfied with Heartland over the years that we have been using them.

Nice having you back on the digital air. The picture is great, but we get no sound whatsoever. Watching you OTA from near stoneville. And no, it's not our setup - no audio problems on other channels. Missin' my Pastor Jonny fix - can you give us some sound?

Nice having you back on the digital air. The picture is great, but we get no sound whatsoever. Watching you OTA from near stoneville. And no, it's not our setup - no audio problems on other channels. Missin' my Pastor Jonny fix - can you give us some sound?

We made adjustments to our sound last night. All of our in-house receivers, and mine at home, are getting the sound. However, they were getting it all along. Check and see if you're getting it now, and let us know if you aren't.

BTW, we're getting a new encoder next week which we hope will solve the problems we were having and give us the capability of adding subchannels. I'll announce it when it's up and running.

Later . . . .

Sound is back now, and we're enjoying the great digital picture. Do you post a schedule anywhere? After watching for a while, I've got a general idea of what's on during the times I usually check but the EPG only shows 'event 47'or whatever. BTW, how about an adopt a pet show, & maybe you could visit the various local vets for a short Q&A on various pet health topics. I find a great love of animals (pets, livestock, & wild critters) throughout the area. Best of luck with the station, and looking forward to substations.

Matt,

I just checked your stream and I not sure who is configuring your encoder, but the audio PID is WAY far off from your video PID. You have the video set for 31H (49 decimal) which is good, (Program 3) and the audio PID is set for 100H (256 decimal) Program 6. (ATSC recommended PID settings)

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 49 (0x0031)
MPEG Video: Bitrate 15.000 Mbps Resolution 640 x 480i
MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0
Descriptor: Data Stream Alignment Descriptor
Alignment type: video access unit

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 256 (0x0100)
AC3: Bitrate 128 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 2/0 L, R
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor
Format identifier: 0x41432d33 (AC-3)
Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor
Language: eng
Audio type: undefined
Descriptor: ATSC AC-3 audio Descriptor
ATSC AC3 Descriptor


You guys do want you want to do, but if it were me, I wouldn't operate like that. Who knows how some of these cheaper TV's and STB's will react with PIDs that far out.

EDIT: You also don't have a TSID set as well. Yours is set for the default 1. That is not good. The FCC should have issued you a TSID or at the very least, ATSC can issue you one as well. That is part of the ATSC Specs the FCC requires of all stations.

PAT Version Number: 1
Transport Stream ID: 1 (0x0001)

Thanks for the suggestions, and for the TS analysis. I have passed it on to the engineer, who will be setting up the new encoder next week. I have seen the TSID, and I'm sure it will be included in the new encoder.

Once we have the encoder properly set up, I'll have EPG information on the stream. I've been told the Treveni Guide Builder is a breeze to use, and I'm looking forward to learning it and getting that part of the operation going.

As for adopt-a-pet shows, we do that with the Danville Area Humane Society. We're partnering with the Rockingham Humane Society to help raise funds for the new animal shelter, and if they want to do a pet adoption program with us, we can probably work something out. With groundbreaking possibly soon on the "Horse Park of the South", we will be giving it lots of coverage.

Of course, you know that our news anchor is a big supporter of humane society efforts throughout the area. Stories on animal abuse, abandoned pets and the like are often a part of our news coverage. Thanks for watching!

Later . . . . Matt

You also don't have a TSID set as well. Yours is set for the default 1. That is not good. The FCC should have issued you a TSID or at the very least, ATSC can issue you one as well. That is part of the ATSC Specs the FCC requires of all stations.

Only the FCC issues TSID now...MSTV does not do it anymore..ATSC never did. The FCC will only issue ones to Class A, LPTV or translator if you request one. I have the email of the person who issues them (send me private message if you need it)

Thanks for the update Ted!

Matt,

Tribune offers a service for $50 a month, if I remember correctly that will keep your EPG updated automatically from the schedule that you already send to Tribune for your other listings. It is done via secure FTP and the Guide Builder has a app for that.

After making customers in this market angry when Time Warner announced download caps (thankfully "postponed") they are doing it again to HBO customers who don't have digital cable on every TV.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/08/12/article/time_warner_s_hbo_fee_upsets_customers

Time Warner Cable has notified HBO subscribers in the Triad that beginning Sept. 30 they will need a digital cable box for each television set to view the premium movie channel.

The cable company says that by moving HBO from its analog roster to its digital channel list, it is freeing up more cable space to add high-definition channels.

But some subscribers say it’s a way to force them to pay $8.95 a month to rent a box for each TV in the house.

“My view of it is they’re taking a franchise that they have and they’re finding a way to take and mine at least another 100 and some odd bucks a year out of the people they have,” Greensboro subscriber Frank Wood said .

Wood, a digital cable subscriber, has a digital converter box for his main television set, which provides HBO on channel 5 as well as on several HD channels above channel 400.

But he has several smaller TVs around his house, which get about 70 channels, including HBO on channel 5.

After Sept. 30, the only way he’ll be able to watch HBO on the other TV sets is to have a cable box for each set.

Time Warner said the move is not intended to inflict hardship on customers.

And the company is offering a free set-top cable box for a year for one TV to anybody with a basic cable package.

“By moving this from the basic tier to the digital tier we’re able to provide more programming by freeing up bandwidth,” said Melissa Buscher, director of media relations for Time Warner Cable’s Carolina Region.

She said that only about 2 percent of Time Warner’s more than 380,000 subscribers in the Triad subscribe to HBO through basic cable.

Cable subscribers have said overall that they want more high-definition programming, she said, and Time Warner wants to expand from the current 63 HD channels to 100 by the end of the year.

It will add four more channels to that lineup on Aug. 25, she said: CBS College Sports HD, Fox News HD, Fox Business HD and Fuse HD .

Wood is worried, however, that Time Warner will slowly move channels away from its analog transmission — the signals that don’t require a set-top box — so that he’ll eventually be forced to rent boxes for all of his TVs.

He considers that a needless expense intentionally created by the company to bring in a fee for every TV set in a home.

“What’s the next piece of content this is going to happen to?” the retiree said. “This is their model of shifting their business ... from content per house to content per TV.”

Buscher said Time Warner’s move is not driven by revenue. HBO is a niche movie channel, she said, and Time Warner is not interested in stripping basic and analog cable of its channels of broader interest, such as CNN.

“By moving the channel, we’re not looking at it as a revenue strategy,” she said. “We’re looking at it as a way to offer more products and services. Anytime you can offer more products and services to your customers the happier your customers are going to be.”

After making customers in this market angry when Time Warner announced download caps (thankfully "postponed") they are doing it again to HBO customers who don't have digital cable on every TV.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/08/12/article/time_warner_s_hbo_fee_upsets_customers

Actually, in yesterday's mail I received a post-card from TWC. I knew what it was referring to, but my wife didn't immediately understand how it affected us. We have 2 sets with cable-converter boxes, and one without in our bedroom.

Notice how in a very underhanded way, they do NOT mention HBO going away as an analog channel on channel 5.

Their exact text is:

Dear Valued Customer,

At Time Warner Cable, we value you as a customer and always strive to keep you informed about the service you receive from us.

Our records indicate that you subscribe to a premium channel. Due to technical changes in the way we deliver our premium channels, effective September 30, 2009. these channels will be available exclusively through Digital Cable. At that time you will need a digital converter on every TV set that you would like to continue viewing your premium channel(s) on. You can add digital converters to additional TVs for only $8.95 per month.

Call 1-800-TW-CABLE before September 30 to add additional converters so that you don't miss any of your favorite shows.

Sincerely,
Time Warner Cable Customer Care

Notice:
No mention of HBO at all. In fact, the notice probably will be ignored by most people until they find the sets without converter boxes no longer can get the analog version of HBO.

Of course, they will be happy to rent you additional converter boxes. The least they could do is to give you older non-HD boxes at a severe discount. Then, instead of them collecting dust in a warehouse somewhere as they are replaced by people upgrading to HD, they would get some use, and TWC some revenue.

But No... that is being too nice.

Instead they send a postcard stating they are removing HBO from those TVs without a converter box, without mentioning HBO at all.

Joe L.

After making customers in this market angry when Time Warner announced download caps (thankfully "postponed") they are doing it again to HBO customers who don't have digital cable on every TV.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/08/12/article/time_warner_s_hbo_fee_upsets_customers

Sorry, but I'm with TWC on this one. It makes business sense to upset 2 percent of their customers so they can continue to compete to keep the 98 percent who want more HD programming.

Sorry, but I'm with TWC on this one. It makes business sense to upset 2 percent of their customers so they can continue to compete to keep the 98 percent who want more HD programming.I'm not faulting TWC for making more room for their Switched-Digital service and more HD programming.

I'm faulting TWC for sending a purposely incomplete and un-informative notice to the current customers... It is NOT an accident they did not mention HBO was going away on channel 5. There was plenty of room on the postcard... I'll bet the notification, in writing, is part of their "terms of service" contract with the county, or part of some FCC regulation... in any case, they complied.... barely.

I'm sure in September, when the old channel 5 analog HBO is replaced with something else, people will complain and they will say to the FCC "We told the customers this would happen." They were notified in plenty of time.

I almost never watch the analog HBO on channel 5 in my bedroom, but on occasion, we do. As I said, we have two cable-boxes on two other sets with HDTV resolution, and lots more programming choices to view besides cable-tv.

But, there will be the 2% that have no HDTV, and no converter box, and no "digital cable" They'll be complaining when they are forced to spend $8.95 a month more.

I'm hoping another analog channel will be put on channel 5, and that it will stay in the basic tier. There's bound to be a religious channel, or public service channel that can be moved there, to free up a higher frequency slot for SDV.

Joe L.

Sorry, but I'm with TWC on this one. It makes business sense to upset 2 percent of their customers so they can continue to compete to keep the 98 percent who want more HD programming.

Yeah it won't upset all of their customers but I know there are plenty of people (some on this very forum as well as some commentators at the bottom of this article) who have cable instead of satellite because they don't want to have a box on every TV in the house. So I figure the number of upset customers will be more than 2%, especially since each cable box needed will cost 8.95 a month which I think is too high. I know Directv charges 4.99 for each box after the first box.

Actually, in yesterday's mail I received a post-card from TWC. I knew what it was referring to, but my wife didn't immediately understand how it affected us. We have 2 sets with cable-converter boxes, and one without in our bedroom.

Notice how in a very underhanded way, they do NOT mention HBO going away as an analog channel on channel 5.

Their exact text is:


Notice:
No mention of HBO at all. In fact, the notice probably will be ignored by most people until they find the sets without converter boxes no longer can get the analog version of HBO.

Of course, they will be happy to rent you additional converter boxes. The least they could do is to give you older non-HD boxes at a severe discount. Then, instead of them collecting dust in a warehouse somewhere as they are replaced by people upgrading to HD, they would get some use, and TWC some revenue.

But No... that is being too nice.

Instead they send a postcard stating they are removing HBO from those TVs without a converter box, without mentioning HBO at all.

Joe L.

I dont understand why they hadnt BEEN done that. I would assume most other markets havent had HBO available without a box for years. I stayed in Raleigh most of my life and I want to say it was mid to late 90's when TWC there moved it and made it so you had to have a cablebox to get it

Comcast in SWVA shifted HBO to digital at least two years ago. It only makes sense given that HBO is not one channel but 5 or 6, most with west coast feeds. Soon the SD versiona will disappear.

I dont understand why they hadnt BEEN done that. I would assume most other markets havent had HBO available without a box for years. I stayed in Raleigh most of my life and I want to say it was mid to late 90's when TWC there moved it and made it so you had to have a cablebox to get itI think I can understand why analog HBO had not been moved previously... there must be a fairly large number of people who subscribed to HBO in this area, prior to the existence of digital cable, and who have never had a cable box of any kind. I'll bet many had cable when it offered only 36 channels... or less.

The logistics of equipping all of them at a single point in time with a new set-top-box would have been huge. It is only after TWC was able to add digital versions of HBO that it could occur... and after enough time, so most subscribers would be equipped for the digital versions. The move is only possible now because the subscriber percentage having only HBO and basic cable has dropped in recent years.

Although I agree with the need for TWC to compete and add more HD programming, it still does not excuse the wording on their notice to existing subscribers.

There could be that possibility where sometime in the future that TWC will come out and say that every tv will have to have a cable box to recieve programming. Of course, there would be a lot of people that would be upset and threaten to go to satellite. TWC will come out and say you have to get a cable box for all tv's if you have satellite, so you will have to do the same for us. Just more reason to get more money from all of us.

They say they are going to add more HD channels in the future, although I am still waiting on The Weather Channel in HD that they had promised us at the beginning of the year.

We had our new FOX net receivers installed today. We will see how well they work with our old splicer. That isn't supposed to be replaced until the Fall with splicer 2.0.

Oh, if you see any screw ups, that will be my fault. I am working Master Control tonight. Poor viewers!

They did ours last Tuesday on August 11th. No glitches or problems to report. The splicer is scheduled for September release, but the installer said that there is no clear install schedule for them as of Tuesday

Matt,

Tribune offers a service for $50 a month, if I remember correctly that will keep your EPG updated automatically from the schedule that you already send to Tribune for your other listings. It is done via secure FTP and the Guide Builder has a app for that.

We use Titan TV for guide data, but I don't see the bills and have no idea what it costs, but it is very reliable and accurate, and is compatible with the Trivenni guide builder that we use. That may be another option to check into, and they may even be owned by Tribune as far as I know.

That is an issue for our programming department, and the only involvement I have is working with the guide builder itself which seems to be fairly reliable, and is not that hard to use once you understand the tree and link concept that it uses on the GUI

They did ours last Tuesday on August 11th. No glitches or problems to report. The splicer is scheduled for September release, but the installer said that there is no clear install schedule for them as of Tuesday

There is a software update coming within the next week or so. There is a jitter problem on the analog outputs so if you record promos off RX C, it has jitter in it. KTTV LA was to get the upgrade today and if that fixes it, the whole system will be updated remotely from LA.

I know this isn't very nice since you can't get to it, but I just saw some of the best pictures of people past and present in Triad TV. It is probably a good thing the general public CAN'T get to them because I suspect it would RUIN some careers of some well know Triad TV personalities past and present since they were taken by fellow friends/employee's at private parties and such! Certainly would make you think of them in a different light. It also shows how TV people party when they party together! Sadly, I am not one of the photographed. That is what happens when you are not one of the "beautiful people" I guess!

MR12 and xmitterengineer would know just about all of them and wouldn't be surprised! :D

Note to folks who try to catch this sort of thing.

WGSR-47 has a new encoder on the way (NOT from Heartland Video), and our trusty engineers will be installing it this Saturday between 8am and 4pm. If all is successful, we will not only have our main channel running in SD, but also a .2 subchannel as well. For the time being it will be simulcast with the main channel, but that will change before the end of the summer. The new encoder also gives us HD capabilities which we will likely utilize as our studio production is upgraded next year.

Everybody be watching!

Later . . . . Matt

Anyone know WHY TWC has to move the QAM channels every few weeks?? I am thinking of switching to satellite just to have stability.

Anyone know WHY TWC has to move the QAM channels every few weeks?? I am thinking of switching to satellite just to have stability.

Because they are adding new channels next week and for whatever reason they always move the QAM channels around right before they add channels.

August 25, 2009: The following channels will be added:

Fox News HD - Channel 587 (Basic Cable with HD converter)
Fox Business News HD - Channel 588 (Digital Tier)
Fuse HD - Channel 589 (Digital Tier)
CBS College Sports HD - Channel 590 (Games and Sports Tier)

Well, it's that time again. TWC Greensboro has moved the QAM channels once again. Here's the new list. I didn't list the SD channels if an HD channel is available. I also didn't list the 3 TWC preview channels.

87-1 Ch 48 HD
87-3 THIS network SD
87-4 WFMY weather subchannel SD
91-1 WCWG20 HD
91-3 UNC-HD
91-5 UNC-NC SD
91-6 UNC-ED SD
115-2 Fox8 HD
115-3 WXII 12 NBC HD
116-1 Ch45 ABC HD
116-4 WFMY Ch2 CBS HD
116-5 WLXI Ch43 SD
116-6 ION SD

Well, half of the equipment that was supposed to arrive today . . . didn't. So the install we had planned for tomorrow morning is off.

Good thing is that the antennas for the data link arrived, and the tower crew was in a day early, so we've got that part up on the towers. Suppliers now say the rest of the gear will be in on Monday, so it looks like an early day for us.

That does simplify our day tomorrow, as we are also doing live coverage of a major public venue opening in Reidsville . . . Market Square Park.

Be watching Monday to see how we do on the new install.

Later . . . .

Anyone know WHY TWC has to move the QAM channels every few weeks?? I am thinking of switching to satellite just to have stability.

I'm migrating to North State's Plex because I'm tired of dealing with it.

hhmmmmm :d

Good News!

The Greensboro market now has three new digital channels. WGSR installed a new encoder this evening, and now have four subchannels on 47.

Right now they're in "test mode" while we tweak things and make sure things are stable, but we will have programming on them in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks to a SUPER engineer for the work he did in putting this together. At the very least, we now have a war story or two to tell at NAB.

As always, comments are welcome.

Later . . . . Matt

Matt,

Your STT table is showing May 3, 2009 and is 9 hours fast.

Looks like TWC Customers in Greensboro got some new HD Channels last night....

587-FoxNewHD
588-FoxBusinessHD
589-FuseHD(so far all I have seen is more crappy Stretch-o-Vision)
590-CBSCHD(a sports channel I suppose)

Good additions, I was wondering when we go get some more channels as it had been a while. Now I guess it will be another 3-4 months until we get more

590-CBSCHD(a sports channel I suppose

That's CBS College Sports which has been in HD on D* for awhile and quite frankly I rarely watch this channel. There has maybe been one or two football games I've watched on it and it is suppose to be a competitor to ESPNU (both will show the lesser known/watched sports) but ESPNU has much better quality football/basketball games.

thats what I was thinking and how is suppose to Compete with ESPNU? I can see ESPNU with my current service but have to get on the Sports Tier to get CBSCS.....lol

I have TiVo's with cable cards and a tuning adapter. I see CBSCSHD in the channel guide now, but when I go to it, it's just a blank screen. Are you guys with TWC boxes actually getting anything on the channel yet? Just trying to figure out if it's a CC/TA issue. I get content on the other new ones they added.

Just don't get anything on the OutdoorHD and the CBSCSHD channels yet.

I'm just getting an "Order this channel" screen..

CBSCHD (or CSTV as it used to be known) is only available if you subscribe to the Sports tier. (as is the case with the SD version of the channel...)

I am underwhelmed by these additions. I would greatly prefer BBC America HD, which TWC NY got recently. That is the lone HD channel that I want that TWC doesn't carry here.

Thanks for the info about the sports tier subscription. I'll have to find a schedule to see if they're going to have any games worth paying for.

The channels added this week don't really do anything for me either. But I am enjoying the fact that we are getting more choices.

yea I actually dont much care for them either but more HD channels is a good thing....I might actually watch Fox Business HD instead of CNBC tho.....

My Wish List is Still BBC America, Cartoon Network, Spike, Comedy Central, and a few more I cant think of right now....lol

Matt,Your STT table is showing May 3, 2009 and is 9 hours fast.

Party Pooper...:p

Party Pooper...:p

He isn't listening to me. It still is off. Just trying to be a nice, helpful guy. That is what us engineers do.

I am listening. I don't know enough about the new gear to attempt to fix this, but I'm taking notes for when we do more tweaking. None of this information comes up on any of the receivers we're using, so I'm going to have to defer to the engineers to (1) see the problem, and (2) Fix it.

So far, 72 hours into the operation of the new encoder and only one glitch seen. A bird tried to perch on the studio dish and flopped in front of it, which caused a screen freeze. The system rectified itself and kept on going. I know this because I was watching on the tower camera.

BTW, we have some pics of the tower crew doing the new install at http://www.wgsr47.com.

Later . . . . Matt

DirecTV subs, do you have UNC-TV in HD now as their website indicates?

I am listening. I don't know enough about the new gear to attempt to fix this, but I'm taking notes for when we do more tweaking. None of this information comes up on any of the receivers we're using, so I'm going to have to defer to the engineers to (1) see the problem, and (2) Fix it.

The time is usually set in either the EPG software by the internal computer clock or in the MUX. On 3 converters and 2 TV's here as well as TSReader, it is showing the date as early May 2009 and 9 hours fast.

DirecTV subs, do you have UNC-TV in HD now as their website indicates?

Yes, but only the main stream (UNC TV). The others are only available OTA (UNC Kids, UNC NC).

Yes, but only the main stream (UNC TV). The others are only available OTA (UNC Kids, UNC NC).

Thanks!

Yes, but only the main stream (UNC TV). The others are only available OTA (UNC Kids, UNC NC).

Actually I'm getting 26-2 (kids) as well from D*. It's listed in the guide as 26-2. So I have two 26-2 in my guide.

Actually I'm getting 26-2 (kids) as well from D*. It's listed in the guide as 26-2. So I have two 26-2 in my guide.

I have 26, 26-2 (no 26-1) 26-3 and 26-4 which has nothing on it. I think the mapping is a little screwy.

I have 26, 26-2 (no 26-1) 26-3 and 26-4 which has nothing on it. I think the mapping is a little screwy.

I have a HR20 and a HR22. For both I get a 26 and 26-2 from D*. But for the OTA mappings they are different for the two boxes. For the HR20 D* gives me 26-1, 26-2, 26-3 and 26-5 OTA channels. For the HR22 D* gives me 26-2, 26-3, 26-4 and 26-5 OTA channels.

About two months ago, I looked at the Channel Changes website (http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html) and saw that on August 1, TWC was going to be adding both YES and NESN (homes of the Yankees and Red Sox, respectively). As a Sox fan, I was very excited because I'd now be able to enjoy the pre- and post-game stuff that I don't get with my EI package. Then, just before August 1, the website changed to show only YES being added and not NESN. I've never seen this before, so I was wondering if it was common or not. Anyone have any idea why this happened? I asked a CSR and they were aware of the change, but didn't know why or if NESN was still in the pipeline.

Ugh.

Jacksonian,

I am not receiving several channels in the 400 range on my TiVo. I am getting them on my SA8300. I called TWC, and Customer Service said that it was a known issue, having to do with their ongoing upgrade to SDV, and should be resolved by 8/31.

TWC rep also said that by going to such a channel and changing the channel up or down, the missing channel should resolve. I have not found this to be the case.

Just more craptacular TWC service, not a TiVo issue per se. I've rebooted the tuning adapter, removed/reinserted the CableCard, and it appears to all be on the TWC side. We really need some competition in this market.

W

Jacksonian,

I am not receiving several channels in the 400 range on my TiVo. I am getting them on my SA8300. I called TWC, and Customer Service said that it was a known issue, having to do with their ongoing upgrade to SDV, and should be resolved by 8/31.

TWC rep also said that by going to such a channel and changing the channel up or down, the missing channel should resolve. I have not found this to be the case.

Just more craptacular TWC service, not a TiVo issue per se. I've rebooted the tuning adapter, removed/reinserted the CableCard, and it appears to all be on the TWC side. We really need some competition in this market.

W


Sounds like to me that TWC needs to "Balance out your account". I have recently added movie channels and they would work on the regular TWC box, but not on the Tivo. They would have to "Balance out my account", for the channels to reappear on the Tivo. TWC would always ask me to remove the cablecards and reboot the tivo for it to work, but that is not the case. Do you have 2 cablecards in your TIVO?

Jacksonian,

I am not receiving several channels in the 400 range on my TiVo. I am getting them on my SA8300. I called TWC, and Customer Service said that it was a known issue, having to do with their ongoing upgrade to SDV, and should be resolved by 8/31.

TWC rep also said that by going to such a channel and changing the channel up or down, the missing channel should resolve. I have not found this to be the case.

Which channels are you not getting and I'll see if I can get them on mine. What I've noticed over the past couple of weeks is that whenever I turn on my TV, if it was tuned to an SDV channel, it gives me the "This channel is unavailable..." message. But as soon as I change the channel up or down and back like that, it's fine. Just mildly irritating because I don't have the 30min buffer in case it was something cool.

jpd31,

I have just the one M card.

Did TWC tell you to:

1) remove card
2) reboot TiVo, then
3) reinsert card?

TIA,

W

jpd31,

I have just the one M card.

Did TWC tell you to:

1) remove card
2) reboot TiVo, then
3) reinsert card?

TIA,

W


Yeah, they will tell me to do that, but really it is not needed. I called one time because I did not have Showtime/The Movie Channel added to the Tivo, but it was working on the other TWC box. She had "Balance out my account" and asked me to remove the card, reboot tivo, and reinsert the card, but I turned to Showtime before doing all of that and it was working fine without doing anything.

Now, I have 2 S-Cards in mine. Even though you have a M-Card, it should still work the same. What channels are you missing in the 400's?

Just to give you a heads up, DirecTV is in town this week looking at why we have lip sync issues at times and on a related subject, Time-Warner has installed a software update they hope will fix lip sync issues they are having with some channels including our SAP channel on channel 10 (but not 510). The main channel works correctly, but the SAP channel will go out of sync every now and again and the cable boxes in the system default to "SPANISH" which is the old SAP channel. You may want to check your boxes and be sure it is set to ENGLISH since the SAP (SPANISH) is a mono channel.

I would love to get some names/phone numbers for those folks. We have been trying FOREVER to find someone at DirecTV with which to discuss adding our signal to the lineup. Thanks for the heads-up, and if anyone can help me get in touch with them or anyone else that makes channel adding decisions for them, please contact me.

Later . . . . Matt

Anyone know what's going on with WCWG and the SEC Network game? I thought it was supposed to be HD (720p). That's what it shows on the SEC Network page and I'm almost 100% positive that I saw a billboard on Wendover Avenue yesterday by the car dealerships that was advertising the game in HD on WCWG.

ESPN is showing highlights of the game during their halftime show that are in HD, but I'm getting SD on WCWG.

Anyone know what's going on with WCWG and the SEC Network game? I thought it was supposed to be HD (720p). That's what it shows on the SEC Network page and I'm almost 100% positive that I saw a billboard on Wendover Avenue yesterday by the car dealerships that was advertising the game in HD on WCWG.

ESPN is showing highlights of the game during their halftime show that are in HD, but I'm getting SD on WCWG.

My guess is that unlike our CBS/ABC/My Network TV stations that are capable of carrying non network fed HD sports games (like Raycom football/basketball) our local CW isn't setup for it. Foxeng or Rickey can probably explain better but I think it's different than passing network HD shows.