Is there any more dtv stations on the air besides ABS? If there is I can't find them.

Nothing else in Spokane yet -- KHQ (NBC) and KREM (CBS) both got waivers but expect to be on by the end of the year (if you believe TitanTV, KHQ will on by 9/15, KREM by 10/1).

According to the letters sent requesting the waivers from the FCC, KHQ is basically ready to go but wants to turn on all of their DTV stations (Tri-Cities and Yakima - I think) at the same time (and why would the FCC allow this)? KREM has to re-configure their tower.

KSKN (UPN) is getting a new channel number - something about interference, don't expect them until July of next year.

KAYU (FOX) is the big question - no waivers were applied for, but they obviously missed the May 1 deadline. TitanTV says KAYU is "Awaiting FCC Permit" - whatever that's supposed to mean. My emails to KAYU go unanswered.

Rather disappointing, I must say... I'm thinking about "moving" to at least get some CBS-HD from DISH... or switch to DirecTV and get HD-NET. Kinda depends on what happens with Discovery-HD.

antennaweb.org tells me:

Call Sign Channel Network City State Live Date Compass Orientation
KCDT-DT 45 PBS Coeur D'alene ID 10/1/2002 16°
KXLY-DT 13 ABC Spokane WA Now Live 319°
K18DT 18 NBC Coeur D'alene ID 16°
K20EM 20 ABC Coeur D'alene ID 16°
KCDT 26 PBS Coeur D'alene ID 16°
K31CS 31 CBS Coeur D'alene, Etc. ID 16°
K44EC 43 PBS Coeur D'alene ID 16°
K50DM 50 FOX Coeur D'alene ID 16°
KREM 2 CBS Spokane WA 261°
KXLY 4 ABC Spokane WA 319°
KSPS-DT 8 PBS Spokane WA 10/1/2002 258°
KHQ-DT 15 NBC Spokane WA 9/15/2002 259°
KREM-DT 20 CBS Spokane WA 11/1/2002 261°
KGPX-DT 34 PAX Spokane WA 5/1/2003 262°
K53FF 53 TBN Coeur D Alene ID 273°
KHQ 6 NBC Spokane WA 259°
KSPS 7 PBS Spokane WA 258°

Oddly I was just looking into this myself since I live in the humble berg of Coeur d'Alene... :)

Does anyone have any updates on Spokane area? Thanks!

I sent queries to all of the Spokane stations today... so far, only Bob Wyatt from KHQ has responded with this very positive reply:

In response to your e-mail that reached me. KHQ will start testing its
newly installed DTV system in late August-early September. We will be
broadcasting on channel 15 with a relatively hefty 450 KW ERP signal. We
will be doing standard definition DTV for the present time as NBC has very
little true HD programming available. As NBC ramps up its selection of HD
programming KHQ will begin to pass-through the HD signal sometime this fall.
We do not plan on originating any HD programming ourselves for some time to
come.

Received the following message this morning from Claude Kistler at KSPS - the local PBS station:
As of today, we are still sticking with a plan to have and HDTV signal on the air by October 1, 2002. We are running into some tower modification problems but hope to meet that schedule. What we do on a regular schedule beyond Oct. 1st is uncertain. Presently we are offered about 1 hour per week of typical PBS programming in HDTV. PBS also offers a 24 hour loop of "pretty picture" type programming that we can pass through. Our dilemma is the amount of extra dollars we need to spend to make changes in our control room to pass through the programming on a regular basis. We are just uncertain about funding and what we will be able to offer on an immediate basis. I wish I could be more specific at this time but presently I cannot.


I'd kind of like to see that "pretty picture" type programming myself...

Received this email from KREM2 today:

Due to circumstances beyond our control, KREM and KSKN won’t be broadcasting a HDTV signal until sometime around April of next year.
Our tower needs reinforcement to support the additional antennas and the manufacturer can’t get the steel to us until well into November.

Another update from KHQ (NBC) this time:

Final checkout of the KHQ DTV transmission system (transmitter and antenna) scheduled for September 3. We will begin to check out signal coverage shortly thereafter. We will be turning transmitter on and off during this time and will have no significant programming. We will begin to ramp up our digital transmissions as we get into the fall schedule. Please let me (KHQ engineering) know if you receive any or our testing broadcasts.

Update for KSPS (PBS) in Spokane:

We are scheduled to start the antenna installation on the 16th of September. We will be off the air for 3-4 days during construction. We will be transmitting on Channel 8. We will continue to be on channel 7 for probably the next 4 years. Possibly longer depending on the saturation of the market place with new digital televisions.

Just got my hipix working. Looks like KHQ NBC is testing their transmitter as of Friday 9/20. KSPS PBS is off the air, must be to integrate their HD transmitter. Too bad about KREM not going up until spring.

What happened to KHQ? They were supposed to be up by now, but I haven't seen anything yet.

Me neither. I keep checking channel 15 regularly and nothing. I also keep checking channel 8 for KSPS, nothing there too. Anyone have an update?

Bugs

I just pinged Bob Wyatt at KHQ and Claude Kistler at KSPS for updates - hopefully I'll hear something in the next day or so... of course I'll post any updates here when I get them...

From KSPS:
We are still working out the antenna problems that were experienced in late Sept. We will not be able to turn our digital transmitter on until approx. mid-November. The antenna problems and schedule conflicts with the company that will test the channel 8 transmitter have brought about this additional delay.

Anyone else notice KHQ was broadcasting (intermittently it appears) on channel 15 now? Nothing in HD, though... not even Leno.

I tried today to add channel 15 to my Dish 6000 and nothing registered on the sig meter. Is it working right now?

Bugs

It's been up and down since Thursday. I didn't try last night, but it was down yesterday about 1pm.

All of NBC's primetime shows tonight are supposed to be HD - hopefully KHQ will have their act together... (although it'd be tough to pull me away from Alias and The Practice on KXLY).

What's going on? KHQ is still a no-show. They sometimes seem to have a really weak signal I can't lock onto. KSPS is still nowhere. Any news???

The last two messages I sent to Bob Wyatt at KHQ went unanswered... I haven't sent anything to KSPS in awhile.

I get a pretty good signal from KHQ, but they only seem to be broadcasting a digital signal during primetime hours... still no HD, though...

Is that on channel 15 for KHQ? I'm getting nothing as of the time of this post. I'm in Liberty Lake. Wonder if that is why? I get 90+ signal for KXLY.

This from Bob on 11/29.

"We are pretty much at full power with the DTV. Channel 13 comes in well
because of their location on Mt. Spokane which we've discussed. You are
definitely in a hole and any chance of receiving channel 15 would have your
antenna pointed south and slightly west. Channel 28 is closest to our
tower. "


I have also heard KHQ is upconverting SD during their testing phase, rather than "real" HD.

Bugs 66: Bob mentioned to me about CH28 so i could get my antenna pointed a close to ch6 as possible. IF you get ch28, you should get 6-1.

I live in Laclede and can't get even a watchable analog pix on 2 or 6. 4 comes in pretty good and 4-1 comes in @100% on my Sammy 160.

I do have some pixelation problems during MNF from KXLY though. I'm wondering whether others have this problem too. No one in the Hardware forum said they did, so i'm guessing it's either KXLY or my sammy 160.

The problem is: When ABC switches from the game to go to a reply and they show the grapic of 2 stars coming at you and basically fill the screen with pretty saturated colors, i get pixelation. I never see any pixelation during any other programming. BUT it concerns me with the other problems i am having with the sammy...

If you could pay a closer bit of attention during MNF and look for the pixelations on your gear, and then post if you see it or not, it would help me make a decision to return my sammy 160....

tia,
ron

Any news from KSPS? The last I heard they had a tower fire sometime in the latter part of last year which was going to cause some delays. I'm now receiving KHQ in primetime on a regular basis, no HD of course. Any timeline on when they expect to pass through HD? Liberty Lake shouldn't be a problem for KHQ. I live on the Rathdrum prairie off Hwy 41 and pick it up with a RS antenna pointed half way between the mountain that KHQ's tower is on and Mt. Spokane.

I am still not able to receive KAYU 28 or KHQ digital with my RS UHF antenna. I've never been able to get 7, 22, or 28 in Liberty Lake. I think Liberty Lake is in a shadow or something. I might go with a amplified Stealthtenna and see how that goes.

I just upgraded my Dish Network to the distant locals package for Spokane so I now receive 7, 22, and 28 that way. I'll keep monitoring the HD situation.

Bugs

Give the stations a call or shoot them an email. Tell em where you are located. They have coverage maps that can tell you if you will be able to get any signal, and how strong.

I have talked to all the engineering departments and they are helpful.

From what i know---IF you can't get CH28, you won't get KHQ DT. Likewise, if you can't get KXLY on CH7, you won't get KXLY DT. You will of coarse need a HDTV receiver to get the DT channels--your current TV won't even see em.

Remember though, KXLY is on Mt Spokane, so you antenna needs to be pointed that way.

AND with DSS local-- you'll never get HDTV from them--like you will OTA.

hth,
ron

I picked up KCDT out of CDA on Friday for anyone interested. Channel 45 public television. They don't seem to be at full power yet but I was able to watch Over Alaska in HD with minimal breakups.

Yeah - I've been checking the PBS stations for awhile... I can't lock into KCDT (45) - the signal will jump to the mid-50's for a second then drop back off, never long enough to lock-in.

The KSPS website (The Manager's Message) refers to the digital signal being up, but I'm not seeing any signal on channel 8.

Anyone heard anything from KHQ as to when they're going to start passing through NBC's HD feed?

I live in Coeur d'Alene and get my local channels (other than KXLY-DT) OTA from translators on Canfield Butte. I did a digital search for new stations and did not pick up 45, but now have four different PBS stations on channels 26.1, 26.2, 26.3 and 26.4. I have a standard UHF antenna pointed a Canfield and a bowtie for KXLY-DT. I think I need a better UHF to pick up the other Spokane DT channels.

I failed to mention that all 26.X channels are coming in at 100% signal.

KCDT

45 is the digital channel of 26. I used the "add digital channel" feature in my Dish 6000 receiver and put it in manually. I picked up 5 channels, (sub channels of 26) the ones you mentioned and 26.5. 26.5 has some very nice HD programming on for 2-3 hours each evening. They seem to alternate between channels depending on the time of day. Some channels will be on while others are not, it must be a money thing. I also receive KXLY from Spokane. KHQ also broadcasts digitally but only during prime time and no HD. I have not received any other digital channels.

Ok I hooked up a new powered VHF/UHF antenna and I now can receive 7, 22, and 28 in Liberty Lake. This tells me I have a good chance of getting the HD channels.

Unfortunately I was not able to pickup KHQ 15 or KSPS 8 over the weekend. I thought I would at least get KHQ 15. No luck. Anyone else receiving 15?

Bugs

KHQ-DT (15) is only broadcasting during primetime - still no HD though, just two digital channels (6-01 and 6-02).

I've yet to see anything from KSPS-DT (8) - primetime, daytime, late night, weekend - I've tried them all, never a signal.

Originally posted by danm
KHQ-DT (15) is only broadcasting during primetime - still no HD though, just two digital channels (6-01 and 6-02).

I've yet to see anything from KSPS-DT (8) - primetime, daytime, late night, weekend - I've tried them all, never a signal.

Ok so Primetime means M-F 8-10pm? Technically I should be able to get something on 15 tonight then. I'll see tonight.

KHQ-DT is typically broadcasting everyday from 8:00pm until about 11:15pm.

6-01 is a mirror of the SD broadcast, 6-02 is a KHQ promo loop geared towards advertisers. Neither channel is HD and PQ is alright, but not outstanding... slightly better than the Dish Network feed.

I still haven't been able to get the HD signal from KCDT, so emailed them. I thought some of you might be interested in part of their reply:

IDPTV is indeed on the air in dtv as you are able to receive our 4 channel multicast signal, 26.1-26.4. The FCC wants us to put our dtv identifier on our analog channel number, thus you will see ch. 26 as the dtv id for our channel 45 broadcast. It is sort of confusing, but suffice it to say, if you are seeing us on 26.1 thru 26.4, then that is correct. I might also add that each afternoon we broadcast an HD sub-channel on 26.5 in place of 26.2 thru 26.4. We are still working out the bugs in this system, but we feel like we have made significant progress.
I don't believe you are doing anything wrong with your equipment. Many of the new DTV receivers will only tune to an OTA channel if the Program & System Information Protocol or PSIP is correct. Per FCC rules, ours is correct.

I tried again this afternoon, but still couldn't receive it with my Sony SAT-HD100.

No luck tonight for KHQ 15. I tried around 815pm. Like I said, I am receiving all the UHF channels such as Fox, WB, and PBS ok. Is the KHQ signal weak or offline?

I didn't tune in until about 8:20pm - but I watched the last 40 minutes of "Fear Factor" on 15. No breakups, strong signal.

I'm currently receiving everything available in digital broadcasting on my Dish 6000. There isn't a whole lot at this time, 4, 6, and 26.

Scoot,

Are you regularly receiving channel 26.5 (HD) in the evenings on your Dish receiver?

Thanks

I guess I'm out of luck for KHQ. Let me know when KSPS starts broadcasting. Maybe my luck will be better.

Re 26.5, how do you enter the half numbers? My Dish 6000 only lets me add whole numbers. When I do digital scan the only channel that is detected is KXLY.

Yes, I have been receiving 26.5 in the evenings for about a week. That's as long as I've been tuned into it. It's not great reception, I get dropouts and pixillation but it is getting better. The funny thing is if I point my antenna directly at Canfield I can get the signal up to 98% but I get more dropouts that way. Currently I'm pointed between Mt. Spokane and Canfield, it's the only place I've been able to receive 4, 6, and 26. The towers are all in different directions for me on the Rathdrum Prairie.

Re Bugs66

I don't do a digital scan to add channels, I used the add digital channel icon to add a specific channel. When I use the scan digital channel icon I usually don't receive everything that's available.

Re Bugs66

Try adding digital channel 45 and you should pick up all five sub channels of 26.

I have a Sony SAT-HD100 receiver that doesn't have the manual option. Tonight, I'll try moving my antenna around although the receiver shows that I'm locked in to channel 45 (26.X) at 100% signal strength.

Thanks for the reply!

Originally posted by Scoot
Re Bugs66

Try adding digital channel 45 and you should pick up all five sub channels of 26.

I will give it a shot. I have tried to add digital channels manually in the past, such as 15 but it will not add to my list. It seems to require activity on the signal meter before it will add. Any trick I am missing here?

Thanks for your continued help.

You should be able to get it if it is transmitting at the time. I don't know the exact time they switch to 26.5, but I know it's on around 8 probably sooner.

They start their HD broadcasting at 3:00 P.M. (Mountain Time) Here's a link to the programing site:

Idaho Public TV schedule (http://idahoptv.org/schedules/digital.cfm?SchedDate=11&Month=2&year=2003)

Well I tried to manually enter KHQ (15) again last night and no luck. No luck getting the Idaho public channels either (45). I put them in manually in my Dish 6000 and I get nothing on the sig meter. It won't let me add them to my list unless I have a signal. I guess Liberty Lake is tucked enough into the mountains that it blocks all the signals. :(

I'll try PBS when it starts up HD.

I still can't get the IPTV 26.5 HD channel either even though I get a 100% locked signal on 45. If Scoot's getting it in the evenings, it must be something about my Sony receiver. The other digital channels come in great.

Jbrolfe,

Something strange, I did notice that with a 100% signal I got more dropouts and pixillation on 26.5. I turned my antenna away from Canfield towards Mt Spokane, I now have about a 65% signal with less dropouts. Go figure. Understand though, all of my digital channels still have dropouts and occasional pixilating and I'm in one of the best locations for reception.

Originally posted by Bugs66
Well I tried to manually enter KHQ (15) again last night and no luck. No luck getting the Idaho public channels either (45). I put them in manually in my Dish 6000 and I get nothing on the sig meter. It won't let me add them to my list unless I have a signal. I guess Liberty Lake is tucked enough into the mountains that it blocks all the signals. :(

I'll try PBS when it starts up HD.

I live in Liberty Lake also. I can receive KXLY-DT (channel 13, Mt. Spokane) easily and clearly. KHQ-DT is another story - I've received it intermittently, and since it's only on at night, it's hard to experiment with antenna placement.

I received notice from our cable company that they've added KXLY-DT to their channel line up (on cable channel 77) and will add others when available. Really good news - I'm going to check on 77 soon (they're forcing me to upgrade to expanded cable...)

As of last night, KXLY-DT is available on Liberty Lake cable channel 77. If you have expanded basic cable and an OTA HDTV receiver capable of receiving cable channels, this should work for you. LLC tells me KHQ-DT will shortly be on channel 82. Thank you Liberty Lake Cable!!! This is great; over the air reception in Liberty Lake can be very problematic.

KSPS-DT (8) now appears to be broadcasting! I tried about 11:30pm and it's a simulcast of the analog channel, but it is a digital signal... time to track down the PBS schedule and determine what the first HD candidate may be...

KSPS-DT good news

That's great, I hope they start passing HD thru right away. KCDT is messing with their signal or something, lately I have a hard time locking on if at all.

Originally posted by Art's TV
As of last night, KXLY-DT is available on Liberty Lake cable channel 77. If you have expanded basic cable and an OTA HDTV receiver capable of receiving cable channels, this should work for you. LLC tells me KHQ-DT will shortly be on channel 82. Thank you Liberty Lake Cable!!! This is great; over the air reception in Liberty Lake can be very problematic.

Liberty Lake cable now has KSPS-DT on cable channel 79 in addition to KXLY-DT on channel 77. They tell me KHQ-DT will be added soon, now on channel 88

I just sent messages to KSPS and KHQ to try to find when (if) they the plan on broadcasting any HD material. I also sent a message to KREM asking for an update to their DTV plans.

Anyone else have any updates?

Anybody tried Comcast lately? my last call to Comcast (early April) I was told an HD package would "probably" be available by the end of the year... just wondering if anyone knows someone "in the know" or had any other information.

When I called Comcast to try and find out if I could use my own SA3x00 series digital cable box with their service I was told, "I don't know."

However when I asked when I could expect HDTV service through them in my area I was told Sept. 2003.

Here's to hoping they're right. Right now I'm considering switching to Dish Networks, but honestly I have no idea what I'm going to do. Basically all the available options suck.

-Nathan

i just rxd an email from KSPS. they just installed the digi ant on their tower. they are working to complete the link between the tower and the studio. they think the HDTV project will be complete by the end of summer.

i'm hoping i'll be able to rx KSPS-DT here in Laclede. I can rx a good analog pix from KXLY and a fair pix from KSPS with turning the ant. I can't rx anything from CH2&6.

when i had my Samsung TS160 HDTV rcvr, i got an excellent pix from KXLY-DT, but i had lots of pixelations during Monday night football ads.


ron

I just adjusted my antenna, and now can get KHQ and KSPS. No HD yet on those yet??? Bummer, I was excited to watch Jay tonight. Please post if you hear anything on this. Also, wasn't KREM supposed to be up by now?

Dan in Spokane

Latest from KHQ is that they do not plan on passing through HD until the end of the year.

Never heard back from KSPS on HD pass-through.

I never got a response from KREM-- but I've heard rumors of early July from a local dealer with contacts at the station. (take it for what it's worth...)

I heard from a friend who talked to KHQ who said they don't plan on passing HD because it was too expensive, then talked about how cool they were broadcasting two standard def digital channels. I don't claim this as fact, just passing on something I've heard.

Any new news out there???

Dan

I don't know if this is of any interest to you, but last spring, I wasn't able to receive Idaho PTV's HD channel 26.5 on my Sony receiver. Yesterday, after resetting my OTA digital channels, it is coming in very well.

Well about a week ago I had my digital cable box swapped out for a DCT5100 HD box.

So far things are working okay. The only HD channels I get are HBO and Showtime which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. So far HBO-HD has been decent. I don't think that HD over cable looks as good as I've seen it over satellite, I think Comcast uses more compression on the signal than they probably should.

Showtime-HD has been a huge disappointment. I have yet to see anything on that channel which even remotely resembles HD quality.

Honestly though, with the lone exception of maybe Shrek and Evolution on HBO-HD, my new Denon 3800 DVD player looks better than anything HD I've seen via Comcast. If I didn't have to pay $600 up front for my own HD STB I'd just swich to DirecTV or DiSH. I'm hoping that eventually it will get better, but I don't have that much faith in Comcast.

On a side note... I've been continually and completely frustrated by living in Spokane as a non-student. There aren't any decent specialty shops for anything. With the lone exception of Huppin's Hi-Fi and the lone Dania Furniture store which are downtown this whole town is just one giant ball of chain/franchise businesses. I've been trying to find a nice looking AV stand/rack and some nice minimalist scandinavian styled reclining chairs with ottomans, and there are no Isku dealers here, no Ikea, etc.

If you guys know of any little hidden treasures in this town I'd love to know about them. As it stands I'm almost to the point of learning how to make the furniture myself so I can at least build the things I want to have.

-Nathan

naschbac - are you able to get ESPN-HD yet from Comcast?

As far as "speciality shops" go, give Acme TV (now Acme Home and Office) a try. Old time Spokanites typically laugh them off as a RTO place, but they've gone through some changes in the last year - bringing in higher-end equipment, etc. The real advantage at Acme is that they'll try to special order anything they don't have in stock... they have a pretty long reach and can typically get anything you're looking for, as long as you're willing to pay for it.

Back to the current DTV status - I've been extremely dissappointed with all of the HDTV options available to us at this point...
Local support for HD is a joke: KREM has been real quiet on their plans -- they've missed their dates a couple of times, and KHQ and KSPS aren't passing through the Hi-Def material when it's available. At least we have KXLY and will get some Monday Night Football!

So far Comcast is only committing (locally) to Showtime-HD and HBO-HD (which I'm curious if you're getting ESPN-HD). Since none of the local channels are passing a digital signal through Comcast, another STB and an antennae is required for local HDTV (albeit the single channel)

Dish Network is promising more HD programming (with the purchase of a new dish, of course) and SD locals are available, but until that new programming materializes we're left hanging. DiscoveryHD is nice, but the constant re-runs do get old pretty fast... The single advantage to Dish right now (and the only reason I'm sticking to them) is that I can get a HD CBS feed (with an out of town service address). Local HD still requires an antennae, but at least the Dish 6000 provides support for OTA.

DirecTV looks like it is offering these most HDTV programming these days, but no local SD channels (announced, but when will we see them?) and no HD CBS feed.

Both of satellite companies suck when it comes to extra receivers... I don't like having to pay for an extra receiver so my kids can watch the Disney channel in another room.

I can only get KXLY & KSPS DT, the others (located on south hill just have too many mountains between them & me!

you are right about the date slippage, but it's the same across the US. The Feds let em slip, so everyone is doin it.

DirecTV sez they'll have Spokane analog locals by Dec. We'll see.

DirecTV, as you probably know, now charges (or will after 9/1) $11/mo for DiscoverHD, ESPN-HD(which is almost all non-HD--but it's guessed that Sunday nite football, as well as some college football will be HD), HDnet (which by far has the most outstanding pq) and HDnet movies.

ron

Last night I was browsing through the channels and I could have swore I saw "ESPNHD" zip by on the program guide.

I went back through the channels a little slower, and wouldn't you know it. I can now get ESPN-HD on channel 173.

I did however cancel Showtime-HD because the quantity and quality of actual HD programming they had was quite poor.

Now if only the lame Spokane local TV syndicates would start broadcasting HD so that Comcast could pick up contracts with them I'd be happy.

As it stands now I'm still considering going satellite should I find myself in a situation to get a very very good deal on an HD satellite STB.

However if Comcast were to start offering the Motorola DCT6200 and get DiscoveryHD on-board I'd be pretty satisfied for the time being.

There are days when I really wish I lived in an area that is serviced by Time Warner Cable.

-Nathan

I just upgraded to digital cable from comcast specifically to get HD. I had been on the cable/satellite fence until I called Comcast to see what the HD offerings were. I was told that they had HBO, Showtime, ESPN, and ABC.
And that I would be able to catch the last four Mariners games that are to be broadcast in HD. I was hugely disappointed when the tech came out to install the system and informed me that the operator didn't know what she was talking about.

I called customer service to complain, and they told me that ABC should be added to the HD list in about a month. We'll see.

I watched the first episode of "Players" on ESPN-HD Tuesday night, and the PQ was outstanding. I've only watched bits of other HD movies on HBO this week, but I was similarly impressed by the PQ.

I am using the Panasonic PTL-300U. It is 1/4 HD native so this is supposed to be the best picture it can put out - and it is mighty nice.

With the new season on, any word on new HD broadcasts in Spokane???

Anyone else notice the HD demo loop KSPS has been playing in the evenings? Really good looking stuff!

With the new Dish (and DirecTV) HD packages, and with KXLY-DT and KSPS-DT broadcasting HD content now, there is finally some decent HDTV viewing here in Spokane!

Having a "legitimate" source for CBS (KREM) would be nice, but as long as I can get the CBS feed from Dish, I'm happy... If KHQ would get off their butts and start passing through the NBC HD feed I'd be *very* happy...

u r rite abot KREM-DT...

I sent John Souza an email yesterday regarding the status of KREM-DT but have not heard anything back---maybe i'll call.

Did anyone notice lots of pixelations on MNF last night, in particular immediately before the replay graphics--while showing the field. The graphics were fine and the rest of the graphics did not exibit any problems--like timeout and end of quarter graphics---ONLY replay and just before it. I called KXLY and talked to Shawn (?) this AM about it. he did not watch it on DT so could not help, but he will watch it next week and give me a call.

I'm on my 3rd DirecTV/OTA receiver (Sony HD300). Each one has had it's own set of problems. this one so far is the best--and the cheapest!!

later,
ron

I noticed the pixelization last night also - on a Samsung receiver and a MyHD PC Card. Good to know I wasn't having an equipment or reception problem.

It's great to see a second HD source on OTA, thanks KSPS!!! Where's KHQ and KREM???

Latest info from KREM and KSKN:


KREM is very close. We are waiting for two things.
1) To electrically check the line and antenna for KREM that was installed recently
(and KSKN)
2) For final approval from the FCC

We are trying to get everything done by the end of October.

KSKN is a little different. We have a lot to do here but we are aiming for the
first week or so of December.

Right now I'm just hoping that Comcast in Spokane will get their ass in gear and pick up InHD 1 and 2, as well as the local HD broadcasters ASAP.

-Nathan

Is Comcast passing through the digital signals from KXLY-DT, KHQ-DT, and KSPS-DT yet? The website lists only ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, and SHOWTIME-HD currently available...

thanks for the update--i emailed KREM a week ago, but i havn't heard back from them..

IF anyone is watching MNFin HiDef tonight, would you please watch for pixelations just before the graphics for a replay? Please post your "results" so IF i need to talk to Tim tomorrow, i'll have some ammo.

thanks,
ron

RE: MNF

It was much worse than "pixelation" on my Dish 6000 system - total signal breakup before each replay. Coming back to "live" was no problem and neither was cutting to a commercial. At one point, I actually had to change the channel and come back to get a signal back.

Originally posted by danm
Is Comcast passing through the digital signals from KXLY-DT, KHQ-DT, and KSPS-DT yet? The website lists only ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, and SHOWTIME-HD currently available...

Nope, and there lies my frustration. I only get ESPN-HD and HBO-HD. I used to get Showtime HD, but in the 2 months I had it I am almost positive that there wasn't a single HD quality broadcast on it.

What's worse is that Comcast picks and chooses which HD shows on ESPN to broadcast. Some games that are hyped and hyped and hyped about being broadcast in HD aren't shown by Comcast at all. It is really irritating.

What I hate even more is how little their people know about their operations. There ought to be somebody locally at every main branch who has their finger on the pulse of service deployments so that you can get some real answers out of them.

If the satellite companies would figure out that I don't want to buy their equipment, and would instead rent it to me then I'd be switching before you could say, "Discovery Theater HD."

-Nathan

Having just received my 8VSB module from Dish per there new HD promo
pack, $8.95 shipping only, I watched KXLY-DT 13 MNF last night with just very, very minor pixelization. 13 was "locked" the whole game and it was
"GREAT" even Dolby 5.1!

Living in Post Falls I have the "tree" problem but by splitting the diff. from
KCDT-DT 45 & KXLY-DT 13, (as per Scoot) I am able to lock both with a 60-65% sig. and this is with just a R.S. basic outdoor UHF in the second story bedroom. Can't wait to get it on the roof! I am close enough to CDA I figure
I can dial in Mt. Spokane ch-13 and still lock ch-45.

KCDT-45 looks like they are having problems with there HD sub channel 5
right now. It will not lock, and on the IDPBS website there is a note to that effect.

Now getting KHQ-15 might be a problem for me although I have seen signal
even from inside the house, just not strong enough to "lock"

I am not to worried about KSPS-DT 8 as I get such a boomer signal from CH-45 but I do have a question I would like to know.

Does KSPS-8 have sub channels such as the 4 & sometimes 5 like KCDT-45?

Will have to get it up on the roof to lock Ch-15, if I am lucky.

So with the new Dish HD 4 pack & HD Showtime and HBO plus the PPV
and DT 13 and 45 I now have 9 HD channels...........it's getting there!

Is anyone in Post Falls able to lock KHQ-15?

In my short time of having a receiver--i have only seen 1 channel on KSPS--7.1.

FWIW, i just installed a ChannelMaster 4228, 8 bay bowtie, in the attic, here in Laclede. that is all i am using to receive 4.1, 7.1, 6.1, 6.2. it is pointed 1 direction without any rotor.

on MNF was the pixelation that you saw, immediately before the "Replay Graphic"? did the sound dropout also?

ron

Ron,

No "Pix" problem before the replay. Being my Radio Shack UHF is still
inside it was just sporadic and random. Also, I had no audio problems
with my Dish 6000.

The only semi-problem I had was switching between the Yankee game
and back to MNF. It would take a second or two to "Lock" KXLY before
the signal was not hashed.

Interesting you can "lock" KHQ and not get CDA PBS 45/26.

Location, location, location I guess and maybe a mountain or two.............

KXLY/ABC just got added to the Comcast HD lineup as of Friday (Channel 104), which is much sooner than the local customer service folks had been willing to promise. They said INHD 1/2 should be coming online soon.

I watched Monday night football last night. The PQ was not as good as the Sunday night games on ESPN. It seems like they have fewer true HD cameras, the signal would break up periodically, and the sound levels were very inconsistent. The surround sound creeped me out at first, but was pretty cool once I figured out there weren't really a bunch of rowdy football football fans behind the back wall of my HT room.

CustM,
Yea i get a lock on both KHQ and KSPS. I will say KHQ is a bit less signal strength so if i have clouds/rain--i sometimes loose the signal. I have to be getting it off a bounce, rather than a direct line of sight. I can' rx and CDA stations where i live. There are mountains just on the southeast side of the river that i have no chance of getting over....

ron
i noticed pixelations on MNF again--mostly just before the replay graphic, but at other times too.

ron

KREM channel 2 should be online any day now according to the station engineers. I haven't seen them yet though.

KREM's sister station WB22 KSKN, should go live a couple weeks after KREM. Forgot to mention that.

thanks for the KREM update---i'll be looking for it.

I had tons--i mean--every 15-20 seconds or so, of dropouts last night on MNF. I think it was the feed from GreenBay, because all the KXLY-DT ads, etc looked ok--but they are not HiDef. It was stormy in GB and here also, so i'm not sure.

I try and look past the dropouts, and i still am amazed at the picture quality---i think the football games on ESPN-HD Sat & Sun night are crisper and colors are more fully saturated than KXLY, but HDNet runs circles around them all. I have never had dropouts on DirecTV...

Idaho PBS - KCDT Ch-45/26 is back up with sub 26.5, there
HD channel running. Right now it's from 3pm until 10pm.

Hope they can expand the time line in the future.

If anyone gets a signal from KREM-20, please post.

I have been able to lock KHQ-15 to get it in the program
guide but it's to weak to stay locked.

KREM-20 just might get me back on the roof!

CustM

KHQ doesn't broadcast much in HD.. I get a good pix here in Laclede, it stays locked on both 6.1 & 6.2.

I'm waiting for KREM-Dt... they still don't have their approval from the FCC to start.. They are currently installing the transmitter for KSKN---hoping for a Dec startup...

Hi everyone,
I did a search on the HDTV local forum for Spokane and found this thread. I have DISH network and will soon be getting their HDTV package and attempting to get local Hi-def programming. I live SW of Spokane near Cheney. I'm not sure I will be able to get KXLY's digital channel from Mt. Spokane. I can get their analog channel with an attic antennae now but it is the weakest of all the locals.
DISH has a new HDTV receiver available now (811) that is free (to lease, I think) to new customers with program committment and $199 for existing customers (to own) with HDTV upgrade. It also receives local OTA signals. I think I'm going to hold out for a few more weeks for the new 921, which is a Hi-def satellite/OTA receiver with built-in DVR that will record in Hi-definition. Both of these receivers have DVI as well as component outputs.
I'm curious if any of you guys live SW of town and what OTA antennaes you are using to receive the digital channels.
Wade

First off---look for KREM-DT this Friday. Hopefully in time for the SEC Championship on Sat in HiDef!!!

welcome to the group---
I live in Laclede, ID, halfway between Priest River and Sandpoint, in a valley.---a long way from the towers, and mountains in between. All the analog stations are hardly worth watching, ex KXLY, which comes in pretty good. HOWEVER, with an attic installed Channel Master 4228 8 bay bowtie UHF only antenna, i get ALL the digital staions from Spokane. KHQ comes in the weakest, and sometimes they are just not there (no HD ANYWAY), but 4.1, 7.1 come in very nice.

Sooooo, the point here is, don't base your reception of analog signals as to what you will get with DT. BUT you do have to get your HD signals from Spokane--not a repeater. and Circuit City will give you a No Questions Asked 30 day return policy...so if you want to find out if you can get OTA, buy a receiver and if you don't like what you recieve, return the reciever.

Remember---there is NO HiDef satellite reception of local stations on either DISH or DirecTV. and don't hold your breath for the 921.

Welcome Wade.

Rondi: KREM-DT this Friday, say it ain't so.................. well there
is no snow on the roof right now so it looks like if a signal is reported
I will have to get up there.

Wade, you will find DT reception confusing at first. You either have a
signal or you do not. Sounds like you have a lot of miles between you
and KXLY on Mt. Spokane so that might not be an option.

A DT/HD signal can do strange things with the mountains around here.
I have my Yagi pointed no where close to the KXLY compass setting but
pick up a good signal "bounce" that locks me in at about 75% and also
locks the CDA PBS 26.1-26.5 sub channels.

Being near Cheney you might have a good shot at the South Hill towers
but you still have a lot of air miles between you. If you go with a directional
antenna you will find it very "tweaky" so take your time and play around
with your signal shot, you might even get lucky and pick up a "bounce"

I use the Dish 6000. The new 811 is a few weeks out at best and as Rondi
said the 921 has a long line already. I get 7 HD channels with Dish but
there is NOTHING like a true OTA HD signal. And remember it's just like Sat,
line of sight.

Here is a good place to start........ WWW.Antennaweb.org

Good luck and have fun
CustM

I hope everyone is able to get KREM-DT. KREM turned it on this morning. I got home and there it was. I watched a bit of the local news on 2.1.

I get quite a bit of dropouts, but i have not tweaked my antenna yet--hopefully i can turn it just enough to get a good signal, without loosing 4.1.

It is on the south hill antenna farm, so in the same generaly direction as 6.1, 6.2 and 7.1. it is on ch20.

good luck--now we wait for ch22.1 (really ch36), which should be online soon.

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm happy to hear that KREM is up and running. CBS will have the superbowl in Hi-Def this year, so my goal is to have my OTA HDTV all set-up and running by then.
Wade

Great News..................looks like I am going on the roof.

Rondi: It should not take much of a tweak to split the signal
between the 2 and get an OK signal.

Funny, I find my "bounce" signal for Ch-13 more stable than the direct
shot at CDA - PBS which I am close to.

LOL...........................................

CustM

First, when I tune in KREM-DT on my PC tuner (MyHD), i t works well (surprising since I'm in Liberty Lake and tower mountain is behind a hill). When I tune it using my Samsung 165, the Samsung tries to reset! Anyone else having this sort of problem? I can receive KXLY-DT, KSPS-DT, and KHQ-DT with no problems.

Second, Liberty Lake cable is finally have their HDTV signals back on the air KREM-DT, KXLY-DT, and KSPS-DT are available. They tell me KHQ-DT will come shortly. I have the same KREM-DT problem on the cable signal too.

If any of you are receiving KREM-DT, I'd be interested in what equipment you're using and how it's working.

Art

No problems with KREM-DT on a Dish 6000. Looks FANTASTIC!

i have a Sony HD300 DirecTV/OTA receiver.. i have not noticed any problems with hangs or resets... Krem will be running reduced power "for another year or so".

BUT KREM is still debugging their gear. Friday was the first day--so they probably have lots to do. I noticed Sat night while watching the SEC football game, the ads for local places were MUCH louder than the normal broadcast. I also noticed during the Broncos/Chiefs nfl game yesterday, it sounded like Greg Gumbal/Simms voices were out of balance with the crowd noise--but that should have been a CBS problem.

One thing i like about KREMdt broadcast--if it's std def--it 4:3, if its hi def it's 16:9---unlike KXLYdt and ESPNhd.

KSKN may be on the air next month... and will come up with full power.

KREM looks good. Not only did they get their digital signal tramsmitting, they're also passing through HD. That's pretty good for the first day. That's a lot more than you can say for KHQ. My signal strength for Krem is 95% on the Rathdrum prairie and my antenna is pointed at MT. Spokane. Maybe I'm getting a good bounce. Don't know. Audio is pretty good, the volume on the HD stuff is lower than the other channels, makes for a crude awakening when you turn the channel. At least the audio volume doesn't go up and down like KXLY's does. Overall there doing good so far.

I am also getting a booming "bounce" signal from KREM.

Noticed they did not have there Dolby 5.1 up Sunday but are
doing a great job so far!

Not pointed at Mt. Spokane, closer to the tower but I know it
is a bounce. Ever notice how the gain goes up with snow on the mountains and the signal is more stable?

Living in Post Falls the tree's are my real problem. Right now I just have
a R/S Yagi on a tripod on the ground. Moving it 4 feet will drop my KREM
signal so it will not lock.

Going to try to "lock" KHQ today, I know it will lock if I find the correct
spot, the trick is splitting KREM & KHQ on 1 antenna.

Boy, hope I do not have to go with more than 1 antenna come spring..................LOL

CustM

Anybody hear when/if Comcast will be adding any new HD channels in our market? I'd like to "ditch the dish" but I'm spoiled by the HD channels available right now in dish.

CustM--
I live in Laclede, and have an attic mounted Channel Master 4228 8 bay bowtie--UHF only antenne and a Channel Master TitanII amplifier that works very well for ALL the spokane stations. KXLY-DT is ch13 and i believe CH9 for KSPS-DT--both of coarse are VHF. I also get ch4 pretty good.

IF you want a single antenna, the Channel Master 4228 is about the best you can fine. It's like $50 from SolidSignal.com...

Yea, rainy and cloudy skis improve my signal strength...

I get all the HD stations with pretty good signal, but KSPS glitches about once a minute. I don't understand why it is the only one. Does anyone else have a particular problem with KSPS? I have a HIPIX PC card, and it seems to like all the others.

Originally posted by Deepsky4565
I get all the HD stations with pretty good signal, but KSPS glitches about once a minute. I don't understand why it is the only one. Does anyone else have a particular problem with KSPS? I have a HIPIX PC card, and it seems to like all the others.

No problems with KSPS-DT on a MyHD PC card or on a Samsung SIR-T165 from Liberty Lake.

I have no dropouts on KSPS-dt but i did on MNF--4.1 with my sony hd300 stb. MNF the last 2 weeks had no pixelations and no audio dropouts, so somebody fixed something...

KAYU-DT will be coming on stream soon. FCC has the app. Their power will be 6,000watts. yes 6 thousand. i was hoping to receive it here, but no chance with 6000watts. their analog is 1 million watts.

Rondi:

Between me and the guy next door I think our Christmas lights
are close to 6,000 watts.................................LOL

You seem to be up on transmit station power, can you tell me
what KHQ-DT 15 is pumping out? I have played the "bounce game
in every direction and can pull the gain up to 55 or so, then drop
but no lock.

Found just the right spot do hit on the "bounce" KREM & KXLY with
my small Yagi.................. now that might all change when
the snow melts

CustM

i don't know what power KHQ-DT is. an email from Bob Wyatt says they are "pretty much full power".

KREM-DT is "now 59,000w and will be going up to 1 million watts maybe next year".

These are from emails from the station engineers.

KAYU had their application approved by the FCC, so look for them to beginn soon.

in Laclede, i get a lot of fluctions in signal strength, measured on my stb, with both 6.1 and 2.1. we just don't find anything on khq to watch, so it's not even in our "favorite" channel. Maybe some of the bowl games will be on khq---but they don't even broadcast any HiDef. Even Leno!!!

KREM-DT at least does their full screen vs letterbox correctly. When they up convert a std def program they show it 4:3. when it's HD they show it 16:9---unlike KXLY-DT which shows everything 16:9.

Hey guys...

I've been kicking the idea around about getting a myhd card, but have held off mainly because of the lack of over the air channels here in Spokane. Now, as far as I can tell, we have cbs, abc, khq and ksps up and running and I am getting anxious to capture some of those hdtv primetime tv shows to my computer. I have read posts that discuss different antennaes to get and some have mentioned the silver sensor. Have any of you tried using one? I know its an indoor antennae, but I live just a mile east of Division and about 2.5 miles north of downtown and have a direct line of sight to the towers on the south hill. Do you think I would do okay with this type of antennae without having to hook up a roof top one? Just looking for some input.

Thanks
Optimus

Optimus - I live probably less than four miles from you (Corbin Park area) and get a very good signal from all of the stations with one of the cheapest outdoor antenna (chimney mounted) Radio Shack had to offer. I think I paid about $20 for it. I have it pointing directly at Mt. Spokane.

I originally tried some cheap rabbit ears (about two years ago now) and had a lot of breakups with KXLY-DT, but it turned out to be a problem between the Dish 6000 and KXLY. I hooked up the rooftop antenna before I found that out, and haven't tried an indoor again.

Programming from KREM and KXLY is awesome. They're doing a superb job of passing through an HD signal when it's available (most of the primetime stuff). I have yet to see a true HD broadcast from KHQ - the multicast signal on 6-1 frankly looks like crap. The few HD shows I've caught on KSPS looked stunning, but it's mostly a simulcast of the analog station.

it might work, but KXLY will be on your back side--they are on Mt Spokane.

go to someplace like Circuit City which has a 30day, no questions asked, return policy--maybe radio shack---which i think sells the silver sensor--but perhaps under their own name.

Also the Forum regarding HDTV Hardware has some pretty knowledgable folks who might help---BUT the only way to know for sure is to try the. For the DT channels, i just use a UHF antenna.

@danm...

The antennae that you use does not require you to adjust it to receive the different hdtv channels? The main reason I was thinking of going with the silver sensor was because I thought that if I was able to receive all the hdtv channels with it, it would be a little easier to reposition to receive the hdtv broadcasts from the different directions. However, if I am able to put up a rooftop antennae and not have to mess with constant adjustments, then I would do that just so that I could get the best signal possible.

With KXLY coming from Mt. Spokane, then the silver sensor might not work for that channel. Although I could do what rondi suggested and see about picking one of those antennaes up from circuit city or radio shack and return it if it doesn't work to well.

When I get the myhd and install it, will I have to wait until a certain time in the evening to try and tune the hdtv signals in since that is when the broadcasts are occuring or would I be able to tune in any hdtv signals during the day hours? Just curious how that works, since I've read that the tv stations are only broadcasting hdtv at certain times in the evening, right? Would you guys be able to tell me what times hdtv broadcasts start?

Thanks
Optimus

When I installed the antenna, KXLY was the only station broadcasting a digital signal. So, I figured I'd point the antenna at KXLY and when the other stations got around the broadcasting, I'd look at my options.

I haven't had to change a thing and am getting a nice strong signal from everywhere else. The analog stations don't look so good, but the digital stuff looks great.

KXLY, KREM, and KSPS seem to be broadcasting a digital signal all the time. KHQ was prime-time only, haven't checked lately though. True HD programming is typically primetime only, except for some NFL on KREM.

i would add to what danm said--- On KREM-DT, when they are broadcasting HiDef, it is 16:9 (letterbox), if it is non-HiDef it is 4:3. Unlike KXLY which broadcasts everything in 16:9, even if it's std def!! It's too bad they don't enable some software like KREM does. KREM does it right. KHQ says they don't have much HD programming from the network to warrant the $$ to pass through HiDef.

During the football game yesterday, some ads/intro etc from CBS were 4:3, which i would guess was becuz they were not HiDef. I know the black bars on the side look strange, but at least the people and cars, etc are properly proportioned!!

Don't be confused between HiDef and Digital. EVERYTHING on a DT channel is digital, but not always HiDef. Like danm said--a lot of primetime shows are in HiDef. Once you get your setup working- you will notice the difference. The colors are very saturated, very little noise, it's like looking at a photo from National Geographic vs the Spokesman!!

And--last night i was scanning ch30 (KAYU-DT) and it paused for maybe 15 seconds, so it detected a signal.. Maybe it was too weak, maybe it was just the carrier or?? So when you guys notice 28.1 on the air, would you please post here... NFL on Fox!! thanks

I see the add in Sundays spokeman from comcast adding KREM-DT.

KHQ says they don't have much HD programming from the network to warrant the $$ to pass through HiDef.
So none of the shows that TitanTV reports as highdef broadcasts for NBC such as Jay Leno are broadcast as highdef here in Spokane? I can't wait for hdtv to become the main stream. Ever since I got involved with video caps on my computer and have been able to view some sample hdtv caps, I have become very anxious to see more hdtv programming.
EVERYTHING on a DT channel is digital, but not always HiDef.
Do these digital broadcasts, even though they may not be true HiDef, look better than digital cable (satellite)? I have DirecTV and mpeg compression artifacts can be very noticeable on regular 25, 27 and 32" tv's.
I see the add in Sundays spokeman from comcast adding KREM-DT.
These digital channels are now, or will be a part of Comcast's hidef cable channels? Have you heard if they charge extra to receive them?

Although KHQ is not in my favorite channel list--when looking at 6.1 i have NEVER seen any HiDef. Call KHQ and ask for engineering.

I live in Laclede, halfway between Priest River and Sandpoint, on US 2. I can not even see what is happening on ch2, but ch2.1 when i don't have dropouts, crystal clear. yes it is better than DirecTV (never seen digital cable) and clearly better than analog. BUT with digital, it's either there or is't not--nothing in between like analog!

i can't answer those questions about comcast...

Optimus,

The quality of the OTA "over the air" in digital format blows away cable or
dish. They get the use of full bandwidth. True, real HD is only on prime time "right now" and some sports events during the day on weekends.

The Minnesota Vikings game yesterday on KREM DT-20 was the best OTA HD I have seen thus far! And I am only locking channel 20 at about 65 on
the meter. If you can "lock in" a DT channel a stable high 50's or better
will give you good PQ, I use Dish network and the 6000 receiver and thats
how it works for me anyway.

You and DanM are located in ideal locals. Shoot for KXLY DT-13 on Mt. Spokane and you are close enough to the south hill antenna farm to
receive those other channels from the "back" side of the antenna.

I am going to guess Danm has just the basic UHF Yagi R/S sells, same thing
I use. It's cheap but very good bang for your buck, and has enough elements on it for good gain. You can spend more $ but you do not need to.

I live in Post Falls so it is a long shot for me to the South Hill. I have been able locate my R/S UHF Yagi so I am getting KREM-20 line of sight..........
I think, and am getting a good bounce off the Mountains to lock KXLY-13.
Also, I live close enough to CDA to get there PBS Channel 45 from the back side just like DanM has going on. It is very tweaky to find just the right
spot for me with all the trees and the "bounce" but you should not have
that problem.

Forget the small bow tie amp. indoor units, unless all you want is the South Hill stuff. I thought I would give it a shot so Thursday I went to rat
shack and spent $50 on the best one the had, even ran coax outside to
see what it would do, it went back Friday. Who wants to adjust there
antenna for every channel?

I think your best option is to use DanM's example, what could be easier?

Still can not lock KHQ here and from what you guys are saying I am not
missing much. Oh, for DanM, KHQ is OTA during the day because I do get
a signal, not lockable but it's there.

CustM

Tonight I am picking up KAYU picture but no audio. Power level is about 2/3 KREM. They are broadcasting 480i 4:3.

Also, have you noticed that KSPS is broadcasting PBS-HD instead of much of the analog simulcasting? Looks great when there aren't dropouts.

I put my money down for a Dish 921 HD PVR yesterday at Sears. Looking forwards to PVR functionality with HD. I'll let you know how it works when it comes in.

Well, I ordered the MYHD MDP-120 HDTV decoder card today. I'm expecting it tomorrow or Wednesday. Now I just need to figure out what I am going to do about getting that antennae up. I've got a deep fear of heights and I'm just not that good at these type of things. :eek: Hey, I know -- maybe I can find someone to do it as a Christmas gift. That's a terrific idea, don't you think? :) I need to get on the phone to some people.

Later Guys.

Optimus

Hey Guys,

I'm back. I was just thinking (I know it's amazing). :) Are KSPS-DT and KXLY-DT VHF channels? The way I was understanding our thread, you were able to receive all these digital channels with a UHF antennae right? Just curious, because the antennae I was looking at getting is UHF. Do I need to make sure that it is also capable of receiving VHF?

Thanks for the info.
Optimus

i live in Laclede, i have a Channel Master 8 bay bow tie UHF antenne and an amplifier in the attic--and that's it. the bow tie i have is about 3' x3' square and about 6-8" thick--actually the thickness is just the 8 small antennas sticking out the front--the 3' sq panel is the reflector.

Yes kxly-dt (ch13) and ksps-dt (ch10) are both vhf, but my CM is pretty good about also receiving vhf. i actually get a pix on ch2 with it. too much snow to watch it tho.

personally i would try the cheapest uhf antenna first--maybe the silver sensor, and then work my way up the antenna chain. all with the provision as discussed before, return it if it doesn't work. Sometimes you may find someone at rat shak who knows what he is talking about and may be able to save you a few bucks. i would also try and put it in your attic, unless you need the height to get over another house/tree/etc--then you'll have to go on the roof with a mast and all its associated problems----maybe even a rotator.

There is lots of info about antennas over on the HDTV Hardware forum...

Congrat's on your 921 purchase Deepsky.................wish I had deep
enough pockets to order one right now.

Optimus,
All channels 13 and below are VHF. VHF is broken down in two methods.
VHF-LO are channels 2-6, VHF-HI are channels 6-13.
While KXLY-DT-13 is a VHF channel, it is higher up on the food chain that a
good UHF antenna under good conditions will see it and "lock" it in.

There is a MHz jump from 13 to 14 not as sequential as you may think,
but as I said above a UHF only antenna will find it if you are in the "sweet
spot"

Rondi: Did you find your CM 4228 in Spokane or did you have to mail order it? Been looking for one and looks like no one has them in stock around here. Also, which preamp are you running with it. The CM-Titan 2 model 7775 looks like the way to go. You can PM me about this if you would.
The CM-4228 is listed as a UHF only antenna but see what things can do when set up just right!

Here is a great link that will answer almost all HD-DT & Antenna questions.

www.hdtvprimer.com

CustM

i decided to post here --just in case anyone else wants the info too...

I bought the CH4228 from Solid Signal, and i bought the Channel Master 7777 from Spectravox---both on the net. Solid Signal is/was a sponser of this forum and about the cheapest price on the net, as was Spectarvox--that i found. Solid Signal used to answer questions over on the HDTV Hardware forum, and they also mentioned the 4228 is good for the Hi Band VHF.

As i recall the 7775 is only a UHF amp, whereas the 7777 is UHF & VHF. i wasn't sure when i bought it whether i needed a VHF antenna for CH 10 & 13--so i wanted an amp that i could use with 2 different antennas . the 7777 has 2 F connector inputs one for Uhf and the other for VHF and you set a slide switch inside depending what you want.

Hey everyone,

Just thought I would do an update with how I stand with my new HDTV Decoder. I got the Silver Sensor to try out for the hdtv reception. It works good. I was pleasantly surprised. I can position it to receive KREM, KXLY, KSPS and KAYU. I wasn't able to tune in KHQ, maybe because they weren't broadcasting? I will look for a signal from them later on tonight. When I position the Silver Sensor in a spot to receive all the digital channels, the signal strength ranges from 35% (KXLY) up to 65-80% for the others. This is at floor level. If I move the Silver Sensor to different locations, I can improve on the signal strength such as 100% for KREM. I don't have very good access to the attic, so I haven't tried to put it up there. I can also get KAYU at close to 100% signal strength, but it still breaks up. Must be technical problems? I know that if I had an outdoor roof top antennae, the signal strength would be much better. I think that I will look into doing this instead of keeping the Silver Sensor. I want to make sure that I can record to the computer's hard drive without any breakups.

Optimus

Hello,

I was just curious -- tonight, I was doing a scan for new for hdtv signals with the MYHD card that I got. I ended up picking up two KHQ channels. One was broadcasting Ace Ventura, which is also on the KHQ analog channel, and the other was picking up some news documentary covering KHQ history? Does anyone know what this is all about?

Optimus

Optimus,

Those are sub channels, 6.2 & 6.1

The PBS channel 26 "scan for 45" In CDA has 5 sub's 1-5. 5 is there HD only
channel so when its running the only other sub running is 26.1
for the extra bandwidth required in HD.

CustM

Danm:

Comcast added CBS just before Christmas - that means the Super Bowl party is on! So that brings the list up to 5 (HBO, SHO, ESPN, ABC, and CBS).

KREM owns UPN also, no? But I haven't seen anything on UPN HD yet. INHD 1&2 were supposed to be added soon also. I was also told that once the first local DTV station was added, the rest of them would follow pretty quickly, which seems to be the case with KREM.

The channels come on-line before Comcast updates their website. I'll try and remember to update you when new ones come on-line.

When i scan CH36. it get an active signal. I also get the KSKN icon. but i have never seen a pix on the screen. It is listed as 22.1 in my guide--so it knows where it belongs.

I would guess they are still testing.

I am really having problems receiving KREM-DT. one second there is a strong signal, and then the next it almost goes to zero---and stays there for hours. i know they are only broadcasting 58kw--so i know it's a weak signal--but the flucuations are what snows me----ah maybe snow on the mountains---

WOW---i hope i can get it fixed by 2/1/04!!! otherwise i may have to come to your haus-- i really would hate to miss the Pack!! :D

The signal strength for KREM-DT was fluctuating wildly for me last night when the snow storm passed through. I have been getting a 93-100% signal before, but last night it would fluctuate between 87 and 100% then drop down to 0. Signal would be gone for several seconds, then come back strong for a bit and repeat the whole process over again.

I haven't seen any signal from KSKN yet. I tried checking yesterday at different times, but got nothing. I am looking forward to that channel coming online because sometimes they broadcast UPN episodes such as Enterprise and Jake 2.0 and I wouldn't mind watching those in hdtv. Now that Spokane is receiving a UPN broadcast from Pullman, I don't know that I will get to see these shows on KSKN as much.

Hello,

I was just wondering if any of you see a bunch of pixellation? in the KAYU digital broadcast? I have the MyHD capture card in my computer. I went from using the in door Silver Sensor antennae to a Radio Shack roof top antennae. All of the digital channels are close to or right at 100% signal strength including KAYU. However, the video on KAYU is constantly getting breakups, but I don't really know how to describe the breakups. The broadcast isn't losing signal strength when it happens, so the breakups don't quite look like the breakups that a channel with a weak signal has. When I record a KAYU broadcast to my computer and play it back, the video is fine. I'm trying to determine what problem I am having if any or if its a broadcast issue.

Thanks
Optimus

"When I record a KAYU broadcast to my computer and play it back, the video is fine. I'm trying to determine what problem I am having if any or if its a broadcast issue"

IF it is breaking up when you are watching it while recording it, and you can playback and see the same breakups--i think you can be assured the breakups are really there.

BUT if you see the breakups while recording, and then play them back, i would guess there is something wrong with your computer video card. Have you checked for a software upgrade to either your MYHD card or your video card?

Hve you posted over on the HDTV recorder forum?? there are some pretty sharp guys over there.

Remember, KAYU is only broadcasting 6kw. that is hardly worth putting an antenna up for!!! so any planes flying over might disrupt the signal path--but then you should see the breakups when you record...

go to the KAYU website and email Ron a message and ask it they were having problems. He doesn't always reply though...

Optimus,

I probably am not the one to give you a "sure cure" answer to your
problem. I do not know what kind of STB you are running and the gain
meters are not all built the same.

The funny part is the computer transfer not showing the problem while
your HD monitor does..................makes no sense. Points to a cable
problem to me, only possible answer, and I am in the computer
business.

Back to the pixellation problem. The two answers here are not enough
gain, or a line of sight problem. Remember, you are getting the South Hill
stuff from the back of your antenna, which I am guessing is the R/S
basic UHF Yagi which is what I use. If Rondi's 6KW figure is correct you
can not be over driving the gain!

I have the same thing going on here. I have to point to Spokane and also pick up KCDT-45 PBS from CDA from the back side. My work around was buying a single bow tie from R/S and only wiring the "feed 1/2" into the Yagi.

This will take some tweaking to point for KAYU to get a "stable" gain for
the channel but should work. The only potential downside is getting a
multi path signal but in your location I do not see a problem.

By adding the R/S bow tie it did great things for me, but we are all in
different locals so the answer is tweak, tweak, tweak!

And one last thought. Remove your computer from from the system and
see if the problem remains.

CustM

CustM---

OP is using a HiDef tuner card INSIDE his computer. he doesn't need a stb for ota. so it's something inside his putr which is causing the problem.

This is from Ron (Ask the Engineer @ KAYU website), in a recent email...

"KAYU is analog 28 digital 30. Our analog power right not is 1.2 million
watts. Our power on DTV will be 6,000 watts. Not much eh'.

Down the road 6+ years, we will probably be somewhere between 500-thousand
and a million watts Digital.

Ron"

I posted a message describing my problem over in the Home Theatre Computers forum where they have a couple of guys that seem to have the expertise on this particular hdtv capture card. I was first told by one of them that I should give KAYU some time to get their equipment in good working order before 'complaining' in 'their thread.' Then after a few choice words, I was told that although it didn't seem possible to record clear video to my computer while constantly having a scrambled live feed, the hdtv decoder card was able to do something with the recording to make it clean while real time video display wasn't able to be played back properly on the computer monitor. Anyway, with KAYU broadcasting at such low power and it being the only channel giving me this problem, I just took the reply as somewhat acceptable, even though I only live 8 miles from the tower and can see it at night and get a signal strength of 93-100%. I was wondering if DanM or someone else here in Spokane was getting blocky video display from KAYU like I was on my computer.

KAYU has been modifying their broadcast stream. I now receive video in 480i (16x9) where before it was 480i (4x3). So maybe they will be cleaning up their broadcast and sending out real hdtv stuff, hopefully soon.

P.S. I am using the latest video card drivers and the latest hdtv decoder card software and driver too. Previous versions did not make things better, but actually gave me more trouble.

I put up the outdoor antennae not just for KAYU, but to get better signal strength for the other channels as well. Its nice to get a strong signal from them all now without having to continuously reposition an antennae like I had to with the Silver Sensor. KXLY reception was the main problem channel, but now its reception is as good as the others and I don't get any breakups with them with the exception of KAYU. I can even get the 5 subchannels of the PBS broadcast from Coeur d'Alene in the 64-75% signal strength.

I can't get a lock on the KAYU signal. I pulled out the ladder on Sunday and was going to climb up on the roof to reposition the antenna, but decided there was just too much snow and it was too damned cold!!

When this weather finally breaks, I'll go up and move things around.

It definitely has been cold. I got some help from a friend and we put up my outdoor antennae last Friday. It was not a fun job. Now we are expecting 5-9" of snow tonight, oh wonderful. It has been making it a drag for driving out to Cheney in the mornings.

I receive KAYU nicely. I'm on the Rathdrum Prairie and have my outdoor antennae pointed slightly West of Mt Spokane. A lot of times I have to wait for the picture to come in but once it's in it stays. I watched 24 last night in Widescreen High Resolution for the first time. Didn't have any problems except for the fact that it isn't high def and probably never will be.

that's the problem with fox. they never wanted anything other than 480i. Now the feds have let them buy directv--or at least a controlling interest. i would guess Dish will outpace them in adding HiDef. I would love to see Cuban pull his HDNet stuff from directv and add a sports channel on Dish!!! even though i just bot a new Directv hd stb... i'd switch!!

fox will drag their feet until the feds make them convert to at least 480p--which is all most fox stations are broadcasting. murdick just doesn't want to spend the money...

Originally posted by Scoot
I receive KAYU nicely. I'm on the Rathdrum Prairie and have my outdoor antennae pointed slightly West of Mt Spokane. A lot of times I have to wait for the picture to come in but once it's in it stays. I watched 24 last night in Widescreen High Resolution for the first time. Didn't have any problems except for the fact that it isn't high def and probably never will be.

Scoot,

Thanks for letting me know how KAYU comes in at your location. I was needing someone to confirm their broadcast quality and you did just that.

Here's a link for those of you receiving DirecTv/DirecTv hdtv. According to the article, DirecTv plans to broadcast cbs hdtv including the superbowl. Although DirecTv doesn't broadcast locals here yet, it might be something to look forward to in the near future.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=01_08_2004D

Hello,

Just wanted to share an email that I received from KREM Engineering regarding KSKN hdtv. These guys are great for responding to email.

From Bob Lundberg, Chief Engineer KREM / KSKN...

"As for KSKN, it is in Canada's hands for the moment and soon as they give their final approval, it gets sent back to the FCC for their final stamp of approval. All northern tier states have to get Canada's approval just to make sure that we do not interefere with any of their communications.

To try to speed things up, we are asking for a Special Temporary Authorization but we have not heard back on this either.

Everything at our end is ready to go. We just need to push the "Start" button."


Ahhh... the red-tape effect.

I decided to go with Comcast for HD (well, not exclusively Comcast - check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3284245#post3284245) - so far, so good... image quality is great!

Hey Dan,

Just curious. When you subscribed to Comcast, did they give you a Motorola? 6200 with firewire on the back? I've been reading that people that have these receivers have been able to hook them up to their computers and record hdtv. Just curious.

Bill

I did get the Motorola 6200, and it has the firmware version (7.0.7? Something like that) that is required for DVI and Firewire support, however I haven't tried either connection (no DVI set and the computer with Firewire isn't anywhere near the 6200.)

Just noticed tonight we now have four new channels available to us via Comcast:

Starz HD West
Cinemax HD West
INHD1 (Channel 664)
INHD2 (Channel 665)

Don't have the movie channel numbers available to me at this time, but they're there in the 500 range...

Anyone have any updates on KSKN, KAYU and KHQ HD?

i got an email from Boyd @KREM---

"No word yet.

We have even asked for a Special Temporary Authorization to come up low power if that would speed up the process. All we have to do at this end is push the "Start" button."

As i recall, there is a problem with us being so close to Canada..but i don't know what is different with KSKN, except maybe they want to start at 1 million watts.

i can't help on the other 2...

ron

Hey Folks,

Very new to the HD thing. Got a nice Panny and HT system, but have only been watching DVDs and SDTV so far. I was looking at an HDTV tuner for OTA, but now I got this offer from Voom that looks pretty good: zero startup costs and it looks like they have some pretty good channels available.

Anyone in the area have any experience with or knowledge of Voom?

Thanks!

if you haven't been to this forum--there are numerous threads about VOOM...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=25&daysprune=2&sortorder=&sortfield=lastpost&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

rondi, thanks,

I had seen that thread, but that was a month or so ago, so it was interesting to see where Voom is at now.

I'd still be interested in local experience with Voom, though. I heard that the sat is pretty low on the eastern horizon. Any difficulty in getting good PQ around here?

Thanks, all.

Just checked channel 36, its on.

Bill

Hello,

I was wanting to know if anyone else receiving KSKN HDTV is able to watch high def shows such as One Tree Hill without any problems? When I tune these shows in I don't hear any audio although the picture looks good. Regular standard digital shows are ok. KSKN may still be working out bugs, but I still wanted to check to see if it was just me or everyone.

Thanks
Bill

This from KREM regarding KSKNDT...from last week.
"As far as I know, the full power construction application is still sitting up in Canada waiting their approval. This will bring the power up to 250,000 watts when approved (up from 173 ,000 watts where we are currently operating at. KREM is at about 56,000 watts but it also operates at a lower frequency).

Then we are waiting for and Idaho station to make some changes so that then we can apply for the full 1,000,000 watts.

A possiblity that KSKN is at a lower signal strength is that the KSKN-DT antenna sits lower on the tower, just below the KREM-DT antenna. The antenna is about 46 feet long and sits 10 feet below the KREM antenna. It actually resides between the 756 foot and 710 foot level on the tower."


i live in Laclede,ID (up by Sandpoint) and the signal here is like 20% of KREMDT---and KREMDT is about 50% of KXLYDT. i rcv KREMDT most of the time, but when the signal is weaker--the first to go is the audio.

IF your receiver has a signal strength meter, look at that and compare it to other stations. Hopefully KSKNDT will get their full power license soon. This week i'm gonna move my antenna from the attic to the roof and see if i can get a stronger signal.

hth,
ron

Bill,

I also have the audio problem with KSKN. My Onkyo receiver shows a Dolby
pro logic audio signal so the audio feed must be going OTA but they must
be having audio problems.

I lost Audio as soon as One Tree Hill started. Give them some time to get
the kinks out, I am just happy I was able to get a "Lock" on KSKN-DT in
Post Falls.

Ron,

After a 2 month back order my CM 4228 & 7777 preamp were shipped on
the 12th. Will be interesting to see if the 4228 will work better than my current Yagi given my tree situation. Right now I am locking KREM-DT at
about 60-63, and KSKN-DT at 49-52 on my E* 6000 receiver. Anything below 50 is unstable on that STB. I might even get a lock on KHQ-DT with
the 4228..................will post my results.

CustM

I never get dropouts from KXLYDT nor KSPSDT, but KHQDT and KREMDT i do. my 4228 and amp is still in the attic. Before the NCAA starts, i want to try the ant on the roof. now that all the snow is gone--i can do that.

Who did you order your stuff from which had a 2 month wait??? i'm too impatient to wait that long!!! :)

Please do post once you get your ant/amp....

ron

rondi, custm

Thanks for the replies. I figured that since no audio was coming through with the KSKN hdtv broadcasts, that it had something to do with their end of things. However, since I am receiving these hdtv signals through an hdtv decoder card on my computer, I am always curious if the problems that I am experiencing is at my computer or somewhere else.

The signal strength that I get for KSKN is right at 100%, I'm in a really good location for receiving these signals. I'm sure that when KSKN increases its power output, things will be better. I have similar problems with FOX except that they lie with audio and video. Although signal strength is right at 100%, my video and audio does a lot of stuttering, too. This again could be something to do with the hdtv decoder card that I have as well as the power output of FOX.

Did you guys notice that the NCAA playoffs were suppose to be in hdtv this last weekend, yet when I tuned them in, they were broadcast at standard definition? Is this a choice of each individual tv affiliate or do all affiliates, for say CBS, broadcast at hdtv if the program content is in hdtv format?

Bill

I think---if your signal strength is strong and steady, you should have have no dropouts. can you look at the signal strength while hearing the dropouts? is the ss steady? If so i would suspect your gear. is it that way on all your DT channels? KXLY, KHQ, KREM, KSPS.

yes i noticed the playoffs were in std def last weekend. i hope they are in HiDef this weekend. After numerous emails to KREM regarding DT, i personally think---IF CBS broadcasts in HD, then KREM will pass it along. I don't get FOX, so i can't say anything about them--BUT KREM is the only Spokane station which formats a 4:3 program/ad to 4:3. KXLY just broadcasts, like ESPNHD, in 19:6....makes folks, and basketball look distorted...

go ZAGS!!!!

ron

Some bad news.........................maybe!

The NCAA playoffs, just the final 12 games, which start on Friday the 19th
are being shot in HD and were suppose to be passed along in that format

I just checked TitanTv and there is NO "HD" marker next to the KREM-DT
listing. Could be an error on Titan's part or KREM-20.1 chose not to pass
it along. KREM is usually good about this stuff let's hope it is on
TitanTV's channel listing end.
ESPN-HD did have the Portland - Indiana game on in true HD last night.

Ron,

My CM 4228 & 7777 have not arrived as of this post, should be here today
as it shipped last Friday. The 2 month delay amounted to CM going bankrupt and purchased by a new company last fall. If you go to Channel
Masters website you will get the redirect. There were no 7777 or 7775
preamp's in the USA until about Feb. 26th. Then, when the 7777's came
in Warren was out of 4228's................. thus another 1 week wait.

Between the production stop and the supply - demand issue these might
be about as hard to get as E* new 811 STB, which I can live W/O.

CustM

I have no problem with KREMDT, other than weak signal causing dropout/pixelations, BUT now that you mention it, when i get the menu (programs playing) for KREMDT, i just get "Regular Programming", but KREM is fine. Also when i look at my scanned/stored channels, CH20 is different than all the other channels. IO have a Sony DH300 OTA/DirecTV receiver. I will email KREM about that---maybe the are unaware...

regarding your CH4228--wow i did not know CM was belly up. but now that i think about it, i believe they were sold to Andrew Corp--a pretty well know name in wireless. i suggest you call Warren ( from your post it i guess that's who you bot it from) and make sure it really did ship. IF it did not, checkout/consider Winegard SharpShooter (about $90). it is about 14" sq and about 3" thick...

ron

Just linked over from a thread on satelliteguys.com. Imagine my surprise to find an active and lengthy Spokane DTV thread!

Anyway, I thought I would add my reference point. I'm located on Four Mound Prairie, 10 miles west of Nine Mile Falls. I have line-of-sight to South Mountain and Mt. Spokane. I receive everything from both locations with signal levels ranging from 70% (KSKN-DT) to 90+% (everything else). I even get a signal between 55 and 60% from KCDT-DT, but with pixelization. Occasionally, it drops under 50% and I lose the lock. I receive digital OTA using a DISH 811 hooked to an eight year old Radio Shack VU-90 roof top antenna.

While reading through, I noticed someone - Optimus Prime I think - had pixelization problems on KAYU-DT, using a video card. I get that as well with the 811 and viewing on an RPTV. Since my signal level is over 90%, I'm guessing the problem is on KAYU's end. I hope they clear it up as Fox has apparently announced 720p this fall.

rondi: I notice you take KXLY to task over their 16x9 formatting. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but it dosen't look stretched to me. It looks like they are actually reformatting the 4x3 content, rather than stretching it. The programming on KAYU-DT *is* stretched, by contrast. Take a look at commercial spots as they run on KXLY-DT. The graphics on some of them don't quite fit in the 16x9 format, mostly at the top of the picture. Or maybe it's a combination of reformatting and mild stretching. Whatever they're doing, it looks good to me, especially over a standard stretch. Then again, as I said, my eyes could be deceiving me.:)

While I'm waiting on DISH to get its act together on the 921 (or switch to DirectTV), I rented a Zenith HDV420 OTA HD receiver from ACME to see the NCAA's in Hi-Def. Disappointing that the first & second round games aren't being shown in HD. I guess there are not enough cameras to go around. I live near Cheney and receive all the Spokane Digitals from an attic-mounted Channel master 3021 (4 bow-tie style). KAYU-DT signal is the worst at about 50-55% and I get many drop-outs. Surprisingly, it comes in better (about 60% with only rare dropouts) using a small, cheap, indoor wire hoop UHF antenna. All the other channel's signals are worse with the hoop except KAYU-go figure...
What's with KHQ anyway? I tuned in ER last evening hoping to see it in Hi-Def, but it didn't appear to be HD to me. Are they not passing any HD signals along? They brag about their new state-of-the-art "all digital newsroom", but are the slowest of any of the stations in adopting Hi-definition.
Wade

Originally posted by WadeSc

What's with KHQ anyway? I tuned in ER last evening hoping to see it in Hi-Def, but it didn't appear to be HD to me. Are they not passing any HD signals along? They brag about their new state-of-the-art "all digital newsroom", but are the slowest of any of the stations in adopting Hi-definition.
Wade

Ironic, isn't it? "Digital" is a marketing buzz word. It resonates with Joe Sixpack. I've e-mailed KHQ twice asking about the lack of HD, but have never received a response. I guess they're too busy writing slogans using the word "digital".

Also, there are probably very few of us watching HD in the Spokane market right now, so there's really not much of an incentive to do anything other than what the FCC requires.

A few years ago, I contacted KAYU, asking them why they were not broadcasting in stereo. They said that 80% of their viewers watched them via their cable and satellite feed, which is in stereo, so they had decided not to bother with stereo OTA. I solved that problem by subscribing to a Canadian DBS service. I now watch Fox from Seattle and Boston.

the real problem with this area, is so many folks receive their signals from repeaters--and the repeaters, today, have no provision for transmitting the channels/bandwidth required for a HD signal. it is truely about money, and most of the stations across the US, have done the minimum required by the FCC. imho, the worse one is FOX. can you imagine---a bare 6,ooo watts of power. except for the NFL, there is nothing there anyway. KSKNDT is a disappointment too---but it's not their fault--one day they will be using more power.

KHQ with their endless recording on their barker channel is downright stupid. you talk about wasting power----

i know it's nice to watch the local stations, but the pq on the satellite HD channels, DiscoveryHD, HDNet is awesome....

my rant is over :) too bad it's only a few of us who read this...

ron

Well, the EWU basketball game was in Hi-Def. They have HD cameras in Kansas City, but that's the only venue I've seen in HD. Looked pretty awesome, even my wife commented on the great PQ. Too bad the Eagles didn't win (they played pretty well, though-especially the first half).
Wade

Originally posted by rondi
the real problem with this area, is so many folks receive their signals from repeaters--and the repeaters, today, have no provision for transmitting the channels/bandwidth required for a HD signal. it is truely about money, and most of the stations across the US, have done the minimum required by the FCC. imho, the worse one is FOX. can you imagine---a bare 6,ooo watts of power. except for the NFL, there is nothing there anyway. KSKNDT is a disappointment too---but it's not their fault--one day they will be using more power.

KHQ with their endless recording on their barker channel is downright stupid. you talk about wasting power----

i know it's nice to watch the local stations, but the pq on the satellite HD channels, DiscoveryHD, HDNet is awesome....

my rant is over :) too bad it's only a few of us who read this...

ron

Even in the Spokane market, most viewers get local TV from cable. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for HD repeaters. Either the SHVIA will be amended to allow distant networks in HD via satellite, or just as likely, the NAB wins again and those dependent on repeaters are either out of luck or forced to skirt the law to watch network HD.

As for the lack of HD content on KHQ, perhaps they have cut a deal to lease bandwidth to USDTV, the Utah company that's just launched a half-assed wireless service using local station's "excess" bandwidth. They plan to be in 30 markets by year's end. I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me if Spokane was one of those markets.

The signal level on KAYU-DT has been fluctuating wildly on my 811 for the last few days, swinging between 65 and 90% every few seconds. also, no audio on KSKN-DT. Anyone else notice these anomalys?

Originally posted by Jasper99
The signal level on KAYU-DT has been fluctuating wildly on my 811 for the last few days, swinging between 65 and 90% every few seconds. also, no audio on KSKN-DT. Anyone else notice these anomalys?

Jasper,

KSKN-DT has been having audio problems when going HD, the carrier
seems to be there but no feed. They will get the kinks out......... I hope!

KAYU-DT 30 is only pumping out 6kw so that may be your problem but
with my multi-path - bounce experience in Post Falls it sounds more like a
bounce signal to me.

How do you like your 811? Are they getting software fixes/updates out
for the box yet. ALso, did you have an E* 6000 receiver before your 811.
Would love some input on the OTA part if you did as I can still get a sweet
deal on the 811 but I have read alot of bad press about that STB.
You can PM me about the 811/6000 if you care to. Any help would be great!

Got my new Channel Master 4228 & 7777 preamp last Thursday. Did a
temp. roof top install Saturday and was able to "lock" all but KSPS-DT which
does not bother me as I have KCDT-DT 26 booming for me with 5 sub
channels. Also, did not get a lock on KAYU-DT 30 but did see some weak
signal flash.

Still trying to figure out a rotor mount with the new 4228 W/O going with
a tripod rooftop. Not easy to do with my house and I hate to think of
lagging through the roof. Plus it's a 2 story and the grounding run would
be very long.

And I agree, I see no future with the repeaters sending along a DT signal.

CustM

Originally posted by CustM
Jasper,

KSKN-DT has been having audio problems when going HD, the carrier
seems to be there but no feed. They will get the kinks out......... I hope!

KAYU-DT 30 is only pumping out 6kw so that may be your problem but
with my multi-path - bounce experience in Post Falls it sounds more like a
bounce signal to me.

How do you like your 811? Are they getting software fixes/updates out
for the box yet. ALso, did you have an E* 6000 receiver before your 811.
Would love some input on the OTA part if you did as I can still get a sweet
deal on the 811 but I have read alot of bad press about that STB.
You can PM me about the 811/6000 if you care to. Any help would be great!

CustM

As for KSKN, I figured as much. John Souza and his crew have been debugging both KREM and KSKN-DT over the past few weeks.

I was just checking my 811 for software version 265, and I'm noticing signal fluctuation on KREM, KSKN and KSPS-DT as well, although with less variation between the high and low point and with more time between each episode of fluctuation. I have mountains due North of me and a low hill to the North Northeast, so you may be right regarding multi-path bounce. Looks like I may end up on my roof after all.

As for Dish Network's hardware and software, don't get me started. Suffice it to say I consider myself to be in permanent Echostar Beta Test Mode. The 811 is my first HD STB, so I can't comment on the 6000. If you don't mind the bugs built in to pretty much every new Dish Network receiver or PVR, then the 811 is a good deal at anything under $200. Software version 265 has apparently fixed the DishPro LNB/148 reception problem, but that didn't effect me. However I did notice, for the first time, that local OTA digital channels are now mapped to their analog equivalents in the EPG. The only possible "deal breaker" bug currently in the 811 is the dark video via composite/s-video out. The PQ from those outputs is just awful. I've left my old receiver authorized for use with Tivo until they fix the problem. It also has an annoying habit of occasionally entering "acquiring satellite" mode when pressing the guide button. This usually happens just before a program starts, resulting in my missing the beginning of it.

My New Roof Top Mount:

Spent Sunday tweaking my tripod 2 story mount. I am using a channel master 4228 8bay bow-tie along with there 7777 mast mount pre amp.

Living in Post Falls I have huge tree problems, it's like I live in the woods. Have a line of 90-100' pine trees 50-60' to the West which I have to shoot through for the South hill towers, and my shot to Mt. Spokane is not much better. Plus, I am probably only about 100' above river level so I am in a hole for sure.

I am using an E* 6000 STB and I believe using compass settings all channels are line of site. I was worried about the Mountain leg at state line but I must be getting over it.

The results after trying to find the roofs "sweet" spot for all channels:

KREM-DT20 80-81% and solid
KSKN-DT36 72-73% and solid
KHQ- DT15 62-63% and solid
KXLY-DT13 57-58% and not as solid, but no drops.
KCDT-DT45 85% and solid
KAYU-DT-30 0% and no signal flash
KSPS-DT8 53-60% flash but no lock

The mast top sits about 30' above ground level. I did have to install a 2 way splitter between the preamp power supply and my STB to draw off about 4db as KXLY was being way over driven, KCDT was too but not as bad as KXLY. I also had to tilt the elevation up about 7-8 degrees to reach an acceptable gain for KXLY. This had no bad effect while shooting to the W-NW & W-SW 80 degree swing for me for KREM & KXLY. KREM is at 230 degrees while KXLY is at 310 for me.

Neither of these changes had much, if any effect on my South hill channels.

I have to say the CM 7777 preamp did wonders for me except for over driving KXLY. I could get 70% on that channel on the ground with my old RS Yagi. Any thing over a solid 52% on my STB looks the same, but it is nice to have that 70-80% signal as a back up for rain & wind. I also think the 4228 8 bay will be more stable than my old Yagi shooting through the trees when the wind wants to get ugly.

Conclusion:

This combination works wonders for long range reception, even with a forest in my way. But with any other channels in close range you need to attenuate the gain. Yes, you can get bad signal over drive even though your STB meter tells you 50%!

CustM

CustM---great news. i always worry when i say something good about a product. it has happend a lot-- folks never get the performance i do, and that includes wood stoves!!!

i don't understand your comments re KXLY---could it be KREM-DT you are referring to??? it looks like KXLY is the weakest, and then you mention about tilting the antenna. KXLY-DT is really a VHF station CH13), so maybe you could use the old RS and point it directly at KXLY. However it has been reported that the 4228 is pretty good for the higher VHF range.

it surprises me you don't get KSPS-DT better. you get KCDT so it doesn't matter much. i get KSPS-DT (now 7.1 & 7.2--but 7.2 is just a 4:3 version) much more reliable than KREM-DT. I think all of those are on the same south hill, ex KXLY and KCDT.

anyway--nice report...

ron

Ron,

No, it's KXLY that is my problem. I do have a rather large tree limb that is close to my KXLY shot and that might be part of the problem. But it is just as probable that spot on the roof peek is a dead spot. Have to give and take a little to get the right spot for all channels with the tree problem.

KXLY has always been the Boomer channel for this area and they must be really sending out some KW's both analog & DT. The 4228 is fully able to receive UHF DT-13.....................and here is the real kicker with the 4228.

At the same compass setting, I have a rotor in the setup, my analog KXLY channel 4 PQ is Very Good and we are talking VHF low band on that channel! And this is from a UHF antenna....................either WOW, or go figure. Getting that kind of PQ on that low of band VHF speak's volumes for the 4228 and shows that KXLY is "sweet" in this location.

I might need to go with a 3 way splitter to lower the gain some more, will see what it does to the other channels. Tweak, tweak and tweak then the bolts go in the roof.

BTW, I sent you a PM a week ago, do you have your PM's shut off?

CustM

Originally posted by CustM
...I might need to go with a 3 way splitter to lower the gain some more, will see what it does to the other channels...

CustM
You might want to try a variable attenuator (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D678) instead of all the splitters. This one at radio shack has adjustable 0-10 dB for about 9 bucks.

-Mike

Just noticed tonight that audio is finally working with hdtv primetime stuff such as Smallville on KSKN. Good stuff.

Bill

Bill,

I noticed that also. Looks like KHQ-DT 15 is up and running full time, not there old 2-2:30pm start time.

With the rain that moved through last night and this AM I had a problem with KXLY-DT locking, I can hold a 4 foot run of RG6 in the air and get a 70% signal flash......................................go figure!

Also, today with the rain and cloud cover I was able for the first time to get a "Lock" on KSPS-DT 8 at only about 48-50% and lot's of PIX break up. At the correct compass setting I was getting signal flash up to 70% but no lock. Dialing in about 20 degrees to the south I could "Lock" but with a very low signal. So I am getting everything except FOX, there is always analog.

CustM

Originally posted by Optimus Prime
Just noticed tonight that audio is finally working with hdtv primetime stuff such as Smallville on KSKN. Good stuff.

Bill

This is indeed good news!

Originally posted by CustM
Looks like KHQ-DT 15 is up and running full time, not there old 2-2:30pm start time.

CustM

They were off air today at 1:00PM. Has anyone ever seen any HD content on KHQ-DT?

No, KHQ for some unknown reason is way behind everyone else in HD programming. I think the latest Sound & Vision Magazine report on local HD reported KHQ will be broadcasting in HD sometime this summer.
Wade

During the past Saturday Spokane power outage I lost KHQ-DT 15 channel 6.1 & 6.2 from my guide, do not know how it happened but they were off air part of that day do to the outage.

I am running a E* 6000 STB and after they powered back up the signal for both channels came back and I went to do a manual add for KHQ.

Well, the signal locked and saved to the guide but did not remap the channels to 6.1 & 6.2................they are in there as 15.1 & 15.2.

Has anyone else with either E* or D* had this problem? I do not think it is on my end as all other DT-HD channels remap just fine. I emailed KHQ on Saturday but have not heard back.

On the E* 6000 STB the DT-15 locks but the channel stays yellow and does not turn dark when it remaps.

Anyone having this problem, or anyone brave enough to delete DT-15 and try to re add it to there guide?

Thanks,
CustM

yup-- i thought it was the power cutouts, lasting about 2 seconds, we have had here in Laclede--BUT my Sony HD300 DirecTV receiver reloaded the stations different than yours.

i still have 6.1 and 6.2 and now i have 15.3 same as 6.1 and 15.4 just the color bars. I rarely watch KHQ--no hi def and a signal i can not depend on. I recorded the final Friends last week but have not yet watched it, so i don't know if i have the whole thing or----

maybe once it is in your Channel Guide, it will stay there until it is reloaded. with my HD300, i can "Add Channel" say 15. it will look for analog, digital and cable channel 15 and add it to the channel listing under the correct listing--ie 6.1. I have not tried to delete it and then add it back.

ron

CustM

KHQ shows up as 15.1 and 15.2 in my hdtv decoder card software on my computer also. I've deleted and manually added as well as deleted and auto scanned for the KHQ channels, but they keep showing up as 15.1 and 15.2 I suspect it will eventually get fixed.

Bill

Same thing happened to me concerning KHQ.
Once I manually added the channel it came up as 15.
I deleted and retried to no avail.
When I try to watch either channel 15, there doesn't seem to be anything there.
I chocked it up as poor reception or ?
It's getting close to summer time, I don't watch much now anyways.

is KSKN broadcasting anything in HD. I get the channel fine but have not seen anything in HD yet.

Originally posted by bighifi
is KSKN broadcasting anything in HD. I get the channel fine but have not seen anything in HD yet.

Yep, I've seen Smallville broadcast in HD as well as a couple of other shows (don't know the titles). I think Smallville is on Wednesday at 8 PM if you want to see.

Has anybody noticed that fox isn't broadcasting any programming? I get a signal for it, but nothing is there. I wonder if they are doing some improvements?

Bill

Originally posted by Optimus Prime
Yep, I've seen Smallville broadcast in HD as well as a couple of other shows (don't know the titles). I think Smallville is on Wednesday at 8 PM if you want to see.

Has anybody noticed that fox isn't broadcasting any programming? I get a signal for it, but nothing is there. I wonder if they are doing some improvements?

Bill

My wife loves Gilmore Girls - it's in HD on KSKN... Tuesday nights at 8PM

Originally posted by Optimus Prime
Has anybody noticed that fox isn't broadcasting any programming? I get a signal for it, but nothing is there. I wonder if they are doing some improvements?

Bill

Bill:

I am unable to "lock"KAYU-DT-30 "FOX" so I can't help you there.
KHQ did get there remap problem fixed this week!

The "sweet" news is E* added a new HD channel, TNT-HD CH-9420 that passed a true HD signal last night of the Lakers- Timberwolves game, even passed Dolby 5.1. The bad news was the Lakers won.......................LOL

Someone asked about programing, a good link for HD-TV is Titantv.com
which will allow you to configure your own channel list.

CustM

Originally posted by CustM
The "sweet" news is E* added a new HD channel, TNT-HD CH-9420 that passed a true HD signal last night of the Lakers- Timberwolves game, even passed Dolby 5.1. The bad news was the Lakers won.......................LOL
CustM

Curiosity got the cat (I mean me. :).) What does E* stand for? I've seen it before and I know that it is referencing dishnetwork or directv. How did E* come about.

Bill

E*=Echostar. visit www.echostar.com. E* is the owner of DishNetwork. Charlie Ergan (sp?) is basically the owner of E*, although it is a public company. Echostar used to build receivers for BUD's also, so they have been around for some time.

it's also roumered that DirecTV also will get TNTHD. not sure how it will be offered tho. Apparently there is a lot of programming they own (TW really owns it) which is HD. How is it offered on Dishnetwork?

hth,
ron

Hi Bill:

E* is short for echostar "dishnetwork" and D* is for "directTV"

Looks like KSKN-DT 36 has been down for the last 3 days. Also, I keep checking for KGPX-DT 34 "PAX" which is on the slate to be up and running this month but I have not seen any signal.

E* surprise release of TNT-HD in time for the NBA playoffs was great. I watched the T-Wolves "spank" the Lakers last night in a true HD format.

They did have minor audio problems going to commercials in Dolby but for the new HD kid on the block did a superb job with the PQ!

CustM

CustM,

I know that TNT-HD is a clue that it broadcasts HD content :), but I am curious, is everything in HD? Movies, commercials, tv series? Or is it similar to our local channels where mainly prime time stuff is HD.

Bill

E* stands for Echostar. It is the parent company of DISH network.
Wade

Originally posted by Optimus Prime
I know that TNT-HD is a clue that it broadcasts HD content :), but I am curious, is everything in HD? Movies, commercials, tv series? Or is it similar to our local channels where mainly prime time stuff is HD.

Bill

TNT-HD is currently available via Voom & E*. It is a mirror of its normal Sat. slot and most programing is up-convert stuff. It's up-convert seems to be better quality than Showtime HD but not as good as HBO-HD.

I think a few other programs are feeding a true HD format, do a search for TNT-HD and you will find a post dedicated to the subject.

The NBA playoff broadcasts were uncompressed using all HD format cam's.

Lakers/T-Wolves tonight at 6pm PST....................hope they use the same format, including the T-Wolves winning.......LOL

CustM

Originally posted by Optimus Prime
Curiosity got the cat (I mean me. :).) What does E* stand for? I've seen it before and I know that it is referencing dishnetwork or directv. How did E* come about.

Bill

E* is forum shorthand for Echostar, which others have said, is the parent company of Dish Network. First used, I believe, on dbsforums.com in 1996.

As for TNT-HD, I check at least once a day. So far, only the NBA playoffs in HD. They do a good job of stretching the non-HD stuff to 16X9 though. Similar to what KXLY does on local programming.

BTW, back in March I posted that I was having multipath problems on 2 and 22 HD. I was getting large fluctuations in signal strength. I eliminated it by combining - with a simple 2 way splitter reversed - my rooftop antenna with an indoor UHF loop.

Is there anyone out there besides me watching Hi Def on Liberty Lake Cable (CCSER)? I'd be curious what your experience is.

Thanks

i'm sure some of the folks here have already figured this out, but i just got the message----

KSPS-HD on 7.1 is a pass through from PBS-HD. The schedule for 7.1 is available at: http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/tvschedules_hd.html

This is kinda a loop, so if you miss something, it'll probably be on later. i notice the PBS schedule does not include any details about a particular program--just the series.

AND all times are EST.

thanks Bob for the info,
ron

Hey all,
I sent an email asking KHQ if they were going to actually have HD in time for the Olympics. This is their response:
__________________
KHQ is in the process of installing equipment for HDTV. The plan is to
offer High Definition no later than mid July. That should give us a month
before the Olympics start.
Thanks,
Paul Caryl
KHQ-TV
__________________

I live in Mead and have been lurking since last fall as I've been thinking about getting a Samsung DLP. Right now I just have an old 27" CRT, but I bought a Zenith HDV420 OTA receiver a while ago to try out DT in anticipation. Get pretty good reception with my existing antenna setup, but without a set to watch HD, it's just been an academic exercise. I'm getting serious about joining the power buy for the recently released HLPs and thought it would be great to see the Olympics in HD. Of course that wouldn't work without cooperation from KHQ (since I'm only OTA). Looks like that should happen!

Originally posted by Lewey


__________________
KHQ is in the process of installing equipment for HDTV. The plan is to
offer High Definition no later than mid July. That should give us a month
before the Olympics start.
Thanks,
Paul Caryl
KHQ-TV
__________________


Finally! It's about time KHQ stepped up. My HD Tivo should be here in 2-3 weeks and I've been hoping to watch the Olympics in HD.

I just got a Hi-def Direct TIVO DVR. I haven't got my satellite dish installed yet, but my local digital channels are up and running. I'm seeing a significant lip-synch problem on KSPS 7-1. Is everyone else seeing it also?
Wade

Wade,

I bought a digital receiver last fall just to see how reception was and if there were any issues prior to upgrading to a big screen HDTV. It's been awhile since I played with it, but I have definitely seen what you are talking about. As I recall, the only time I saw the lip sync issue was on PBS. It seemed to vary, but one show in particular I remember was extremely bad. I've looked at some of the Samsung DLP posts in the Rear Projection forum with interest as people debated the causes of lip sync issues. Some seemed to actually be TV related, but others were at the source. This one clearly must be somewhere at the source as I watch it for now on my old 27" CRT.

Lewey

Well,

I thought I'd try one more time for local OTA HDTV status, so I thought I'd try with KAYU. I read that Fox would be broadcasting "up to six" NFL games this fall in HD. And they would be providing HD equipment to affiliates so they could broadcast in HD as well. Unfortunately the answer from KAYU wasn't as good as the KHQ response I got earlier. Here's the KAYU response:

____________________________
Thank you for writing KAYU TV.

At this time, we do not have the ability to broadcast high definition
programming on our DTV signal.

We do not have a time frame for HD at this time. Please feel free to check
back with us from time to time to see if we have made any progress.

Have a super day.

Sincerely,

Ron Sweatte
KAYU-TV
______________________________

I guess I'll have to wait longer for NFC football.

regarding the lip-sync on PBS, send them an email and ask about it--but you should do no later than the next day. they are pretty responsive answering these questions. Also--7.1 is the only HD channel, and is a retransmission of the PBS HD feed. check my prior post regarding the URL for finding the schedule. 7.2 is the Digital channel of 7. so if you see the lip sync problem on 7.2 but not on 7, email them that too.

regarding fox-- over on the HDTV Programming forum, there was, maybe still is, a thread regarding your subject. KAYU is not owned by Fox, as you can see from their web site. Fox has no control over kayu. BUT as i recall from the above thread, fox is supplying splicers to all fox stations. it is up to the station to get them installed ---iow, spend the $$. their coverage on 28.1 is about as far as my ----, with 6000 watts, and they are not going to upgrade that for another 6 years. Write your congressman and tell them the BS these guys are doing. They can claim they are meeting all the mandates--and technically they are--the LOOPHOLE is sooooo big, they can put their antenna inside!!

ron

Originally posted by rondi
their coverage on 28.1 is about as far as my ----, with 6000 watts, and they are not going to upgrade that for another 6 years. Write your congressman and tell them the BS these guys are doing. They can claim they are meeting all the mandates--and technically they are--the LOOPHOLE is sooooo big, they can put their antenna inside!!

ron [/B]

I think we'd be better off revising the SHVIA so that DBS could offer national HD network feeds to anyone who doesn't have or can't receive the local HD signal. With this in place, KAYU would be free to compete or not, as they see fit and everyone would have access to Fox HD. The free market is always a better idea than government force.

Jasper99,
i don't think the shvia disallows HD transmission of networks. DirecTV broadcasts CBS HD (both east and west i believe). There clearly is enough bandwidth to broadcast HD of the networks now, along with some upcoming channels, but only if it is limited to like 1 feed per network.

but that is not the point. the point is----the feds gave away the tv analog channels mannnnnnny moons ago. and they are "trading" in the analog channels ( so they can reallcate/sell them) for the digital channels, with the HOPE station (read owners) will convert to HD, or at least digital tv. the deadline for stations to convert has come and gone, and extensions have been filed, and------the story goes on. the bottom line, it is a matter of money. stations are unwilling to spend unless there is a payback--i have no problem with this. a year ago the argument was there are not enough DigiTV sets in households. this was a valid argument, but today that has changed, and the FCC has allowed the stations to keep the analog channels another 2 years--i believe. that's the problem.....

yea free markets will always rule, but at time incentives need to be applied or mandated.

ron

Rondi,

I think I saw the thread you're referencing. At least I saw a thread that discussed Fox broadcasting up to 6 NFL games a week in HD this fall. That's why I sent the message to KAYU, to see if they were going to support HD, since Fox themselves were.

I also asked what they were broadcasting in. I figured it was 480P. But he said they were broadcasting in 720P! But he said they're upconverting an analog signal, so it sounds like they can't handle an HD signal coming in. I can get their signal even at the low level, but looks like no HD for awhile.

Lewey

KHQ is broadcasting in 1080i finally. Its showing up as 15-1 here on my computer via the MyHD capture card that I have. Also, KXLY is broadcasting a second subchannel now -- D04-2.

Bill

After the 2 week re-mapping problem with KHQ-DT15, this afternoon I checked the status again and BINGO, not only is the transmission back to channel 6 the Sub's are:

6-01-H
6-02-D

I sure hope this could mean the 01-H sub is the National HD feed and not just them getting ready for Olympic coverage. You can be sure I will be watching tonight when Leno comes on! Could have sworn I caught the end of a "soap" in HD this afternoon.

Congrat's to KHQ and one way or the other we win!

""" OPTIMUS """""

I missed your last post about KXLY adding the sub 02 channel in your last post. Deleted KXLY DT-13 and did a manual search & add and sure enough there it was. Have not had the time to see the diff. but at first peek it was 2 different broadcasts..............TNX for the post.

What ever happened with KGPX-DT-34 "PAX" that was slotted to go OTA back on May 1st this year, has anyone seen anything about this?

CustM

CustM

Was Jay Leno in highdef? According to titantv.com, NBC broadcasts The Tonight Show and Law and Order? in highdef. I haven't been able to catch either one on to see if they are indeed shown in highdef. Titantv.com also reports that PAX 34 digital won't debut til January 2006.

Bill

I saw some glorious HiDef on KHQ the other night, either Tuesday or Wednesday night at 10PM, I can't remember which as I don't watch much NBC programming.

That said, I hope that one of the two sub channels that showed up on my 811 today end up airing the NBC Olympics feed. I just watched the opening ceremonies on the CBC (in SD). Greece and Athens did a good job.

Bill,

The best answer I can give you is I am not sure.....................LOL

Both subs were a mirror of the same show. 01-H was in 1080i and I am not sure what 02-D was broadcast in but there was a big diff. in PQ between the two. My gut tells me it was not HD and the 1080i format was making it look better. The WOW factor seemed to be missing.

Sounds funny not to be able to give you a yes or no, but if it was not HD all I can say is it was the best OTA DT I have seen.

The rub is Leno will not be back on 01-H until after the Games are over from what I understand.

CustM

As i've been following lots of info on the forum i thought i'd add my two cents on the hdtv. I live in Spokane, WA and have recently purchased the Samsung T351 HDTV Reciever. I live on 7th and maple and according to antennaweb.org i should not be able to get any channels unless i have a med to large directional attenna.

I live in a apt so my options are limited to indoor setup and have tried almost a dozen different antennas. The best one was the one i've been using for a year or so to get my analog channels. It's a Amplifed UHF/VHF Jensen Rabbit Ear cheapy that cost me about $30 bucks and I get ABC and PBS easily. I can get NBC but it takes a lot of messing with the antenna to lock it up, CBS i only got once for about 5 minutes because the signal is in the 70% area. Fox is at the low 60% area and have never locked in. WB and UPN have no signals at all.

The only antenna that was as good as the cheap one was the Terk TV55 hdtv that cost $100 bucks and it only helped make NBC easier to get but that was it. The main reason why i thought i'd post on this thread is i have been in contact with some of the local stations in my area via email and have learned some interesting info and so i'll post them.....

Here's the reply I got from the local PBS station....


KSPS-DT, Channel 8, is currently broadcasting with an ERP of 21.8 KW which is the maximum alloted by the FCC so there will be no increase in our signal strength. As an FYI only KXLY-DT and KSPS-DT are at their maximum alloted power levels at the present time in Spokane.

KSPS-DT is currently broadcasting two video streams on its DTV channel. The first designatd as virtual 7.1 is a full time HD service from PBS (PBS-HD) and the second is 7.2 and is a duplication of what is actually on our analog channel.

Just a quick not on our HD broadcast, the majority of the content is native HD with the remainder being at least native 16X9 widescreen upconverted to HD. The format is 1080i. This is the most HD content available anywhere on one channel at the present time.

I love to talk about DTV and HDTV so feel free to give me a call and discuss this further in Spokane at 509-***-****. And thanks for being a die-hard OTA proponent.

By far the best response so far is from CBS (i won't post the ABC tech guys response yet because i think everyone would just laugh and i'm waiting for him to get his act together and i'm still waiting on Fox and Nbc to reply)..........








Jay,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have just returned back to the
station.

We operate KREM-TV, KREM-DT, KSKN and KSKN-DT so I will try to answer your
questions for both HD stations.

For KREM-DT:
We are currently operating at an Average Effective Radiated Power of 53.6
kilowatts under a Special Temporary Authorization from the FCC.

The FCC on August 11, 2004 issued a Construction Permit for KREM-DT to raise our
power to 893 kilowatts, Average Effective Radiated Power. We do not expect
delivery of the high power transmitter until sometime after the first of the
year. I suspect it will be sometime around April or May before we can raise our
power to the new level.

At present, we only offer CBS HD programming and that is limited generally to
prime time (8PM to 11PM) and the soap opera that they have on at 11AM. All
other CBS and KREM analog programming is upconverted to 1080i. We keep our
non-HD programming in the 4:3 aspect ratio instead of spreading it out into
16:9. This distorts the picture which we do not wish to do. When CBS HD
programming is available, our equipment automatically switches to the full 16:9
aspect ratio.

CBS at a later date will begin programming with 5.1 audio, which KREM will add
the necessary equipment so that we will be able to provide this to our viewers.

KREM and KSKN is currently building up our HD studio infrastructure so that we
will be able to provide more programming in HD at a later date.

For KSKN-DT:
KSKN is also operating under an STA from the FCC. KSKN's power is currently at
173 kilowatts.

As of yet, we have not been issued a Construction Permit to raise our power up
to the authorized 250 kilowatts. Because we are a northern tier state, Canada
is also involved with the FCC in granting clearance. As soon as the FCC issues
us the Construction Permit, our transmitter will be able to make that power
immediately. We have a filing with the FCC to increase our power to 1000
kilowatts but at present we have not heard back on this.

Warner Brothers also has a number of its shows in HD during prime time (8PM -
11PM). They too have plans to begin programming in 5.1 audio and as soon as
they do, we will provide the equipment to allow us to transmit this.

Again, we upconvert the analog programming to 1080i and keep it in the 4:3
aspect ratio. True HD programming is automatically switched to its 16:9 aspect
ratio.

Hope this answers your questions....

The thing i found most interesting from the CBS tech was that he said "We are currently operating at an Average Effective Radiated Power of 53.6
kilowatts" and then he said "The FCC on August 11, 2004 issued a Construction Permit for KREM-DT to raise our
power to 893 kilowatts" which would mean the signal strength would be increased well over 10 times the current level so i emailed him back to make sure he didn't mean 89.3 or something.

Well he replied saying that Yes the current levels will be increased by over 10 times in the future. Wow, i can't wait!!! I'll post my other emails as i get them and maybe the Abc guys goofy email if he doesn't provide me with any tech info and keeps trying to give me the run around. Lates all!

okay the ABC guy finally spilt the beans after 3 emails, not sure why he was so reluctant but here's his reply......




Thanks, Jay....

KXLY DT-13 operates from atop Mt. Spokane, NE of town. Since our height above
average terrain is so great, we operate at a FCC maximum power level of 25KW,
full time. Our facility is completely built out, and has been since our sign-on
in fall of 1999.

By the way, one of the nicest digital receive antenna packages we've seen is the
Turk 5' "stick" amplified indoor-outdoor unit for about $100. It's about 5 feet
long and about 3" in diameter. One can fit it under a deck, or under the eves
quite nicely.

With regard to programming, we are running a full-time 720P HD signal on 4.1 and
the ABC News Now and local cutins on 4.2. We currently have no further plans.

Good luck with the installation!

engineering

thanks for the info. I live in spokane also. I can receive all of the stations but had to use a dual antenna setup to get them. Why KXLY put the antenna on Spokane Mt., I will never understand. PBS is also used by moviebeam to transmit their signal to the boxes. I really love the programs they have, looks great. Enjoy your HD.

Well, just for yuks, I tuned up KAYU-DT this morning since Fox has football in 720p. I got what I usually get with my DN 811 STB: A constant signal level of 81% and no video - just a black screen. I know it's a pipedream to expect 720p on KAYU-DT anytime soon, but I do expect something more than a black screen.

Do they actually deliver programming, or is it my 811?

Originally posted by Jasper99
Well, just for yuks, I tuned up KAYU-DT this morning since Fox has football in 720p. I got what I usually get with my DN 811 STB: A constant signal level of 81% and no video - just a black screen. I know it's a pipedream to expect 720p on KAYU-DT anytime soon, but I do expect something more than a black screen.

Do they actually deliver programming, or is it my 811?

They do have programming on this channel, but I have a hard time receiving it also, so I don't think its your equipment. I have an hdtv decoder card in my computer and I usually get 81-87% signal strength but with a black screen too. However, when I step up and down a channel several times then I can finally tune in a picture. I live about a mile east of division and 2-3 miles north from downtown, so this might be why I am able to get a picture when it comes in. I don't know what causes it, but when I do get a picture, all I ever see is standard programming in 16:9 480i with blairing audio.

The new HDTV programming on KHQ looks good tho. Joey, Hawaii and Medical Investigation look like they may have potential for new shows this year.

Bill

Just yesterday my channel 102 started to skip, it will randomly pause for a half second or so then pick back up again.

Anyone else have this problem. I am located in Spokane Valley have a Motorola 6200 HD box and have Comcast HD cable.

I read on some other threads that people have had a similar problem, but so far Comcast says I am the only one in this area to have this issue.

they are sending a tech out tomorrow, so i hope he can fix it.

Comcast just called this morning and verified that it was a problem coming from the source. Channel 2. So i guess all i can do is wait for them to fix it.

Regarding KAYU signal and a black screen, I receive it fine in Mead. I'm just off of the Newport highway and the Mt.Spokane Highway. Not sure why I don't have the problems you guys seem to. I have a roof antenna and a Zenith HDV420 reciever.

Optimus, I'm looking at potentially setting up an HTPC and I was researching the MyHD 120. I was looking at some old threads, saw some of your posts. Looks like that's what you have, right? Do you do much recording with it?

Anybody heard any news about when Comcast might start carrying KAYU-DT? I've sent two emails to KAYU, both unanswered.

I'd love to see some FOX Football in HD!

Originally posted by Lewey
Optimus, I'm looking at potentially setting up an HTPC and I was researching the MyHD 120. I was looking at some old threads, saw some of your posts. Looks like that's what you have, right? Do you do much recording with it?

@ Lewey

I do have the MyHD 120 and I use it all the time to record my favorite prime time shows. However, I don't have an hdtv. The shows I record are either archived to dvd format and watched on an analog tv or I watch hdtv stuff on my computer monitor. I have made a hobby out of capping tv stuff to my computer. Been doing it for 5 years now and hdtv caps are great with the MyHD 120. The software that comes with the card is ok. There is no pvr functionality, so anything recorded to the computer can't be fast forwarded or re-wound until the recording is complete. You can watch while recording, but skipping commercials isn't possible until recording is completely done. The card has an output for hooking up to an hdtv, but I haven't looked into the technical details as far as knowing how easy it would be or what cables would be necessary. If there is anything specific that you are interested in that you would like me to elaborate on, let me know.

@ danm

I'm guessing that KAYU-DT won't become a great addition to Comcast until they begin broadcasting hdtv programming. They are currently running at 16x9 480i. I see that titantv.com shows Fox as having several shows being aired as high def, but they aren't broadcast that way on KAYU-DT. It would be nice if they would upgrade their equipment so that we could see some high def programming from them. I've been meaning to write them to see when they plan to do that. I'll send an email too and see if I can get a response, but since you aren't receiving any replies, I doubt I will hear anything either. Maybe if we as a group bombarded them with several emails, they would reply to someone. :)

Bill

Optimus,

Actually I might have some good news for you on the PVR front. According to a thread in the HTPC forum MyHD has alpha software that performs time shifting as you're watching. It sounds like the previous limitations may be a thing of the past soon.

MyHDSoftwareDevelopment (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=469146&highlight=myhd)

I'm intending on using it more in a home theater setup rather than as PC functionality. But for the price I like the flexibility a PC will give me. How hard is it to set up automatic programming? I've never had a TIVO, but I understand that you can set it up to program a certain show and it will program every episode of that show even if it changes time slots. Is something like that possible with MyHD? Is it pretty easy to copy files to DVD? Generally I'm hoping it will be pretty straightforward for my wife to operate without having to give her a huge list of instructions.

Have you copied VHS or input other video info through the inputs?

My TV has an RGB input option, so I'm hoping it'll be as simple as connecting to a computer monitor as far as the hardware connection.

Thanks,
Lewey

Lewey,

I sent a personal message to you regarding the MyHD card.

Bill

I received an email back from "Ask The Engineer" at KAYU Fox 28 and he said...

"We are in line to begin installing HD electronics here. I do not have an exact date. But keep watching."

In my original email to him, I mentioned that I was able to receive KAYU broadcasts at 480i. The MyHD highdef tv decoder card that I have in my computer displays this information and anything that I record to my hard drive has a frame rate of 29.97 and a resolution of 704x480 which I understand 480i to be. I can then use the decoder card to upconvert the 480i signal to 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Anyway, Ron Sweatte (the Ask The Engineer guy) wanted to know why I wasn't able to receive the KAYU broadcasts at 480p.

Before I reply back to him, I wanted to see if anyone here would be able to confirm that KAYU is broadcasting at 480i? Maybe I am confusing Ron by telling him that I am receiving KAYU at 480i even though I am able to watch the broadcasts at 480p because of the up conversion that the hdtv decoder card does.

Thanks
Bill

I just checked and I'm receiving it at 480i. When I called during the baseball playoffs to see if they were going to be broadcasting the World Series in HD, the receptionist said it would be a year before they started broadcasting in HD.

I do wish that they wouldn't stretch the picture. I'd like to see it pillarboxed. If I want to watch KAYU, I watch the analog channel.

Randy

I got an email reply yesterday from Ron at KAYU--- here it is,

"KAYU DT is required to increase power by July 1st 2005. So expect to see an
increase in signal strength by then. We will probably complete HD by then
as well. We actually began working on the HD electronics today as they just
arrived."

i also thanked him for buying the rights to broadcast the EWU/SHSt game Sat from ESPN.... that i thought was above and beyond the call of duty....

Originally posted by rondi
I got an email reply yesterday from Ron at KAYU--- here it is,

"KAYU DT is required to increase power by July 1st 2005. So expect to see an
increase in signal strength by then. We will probably complete HD by then
as well. We actually began working on the HD electronics today as they just
arrived."

Sounds just like more spin on the same old we don't want to spend the money story and the FCC turns their cheek. Like in a prior post of yours, the splicer is "Free" the rest is on the stations shoulders.

BTW: The last search I found was they had an ERP of 3.1KW not 6KW.

Required, expect, probably and actually............:confused:
Maybe the required power increase will bring us back to 6KW.

Maybe it's just sour grapes on my end as KAYU is the only DT Station I can't get a lock, but I doubt that the 1,000KW CP has little meaning.

CustM

Originally posted by rondi
I got an email reply yesterday from Ron at KAYU--- here it is,

"KAYU DT is required to increase power by July 1st 2005. So expect to see an
increase in signal strength by then. We will probably complete HD by then
as well. We actually began working on the HD electronics today as they just
arrived."

i also thanked him for buying the rights to broadcast the EWU/SHSt game Sat from ESPN.... that i thought was above and beyond the call of duty....

I spoke with Ron today to inquire about Fox (KAYU-DT) and Comcast. He indicated that they are in negotiations and were hoping to have a deal in time for the Super Bowl. He said he did not know whether or not that would happen. He confused me when I asked if they were installing new equipment and he said yes and that it would be awhile before that was complete and they would be able to broadcast in HD. Apparently he was talking about OTA, because I questioned what difference the deal with Comcast would make until they were broadcasting in HD, he said that they would be in HD with Comcast if the deal is completed.

I questioned it a couple of times, because it didn't make sense to me but what I got out of it was that they deal with Comcast was not dependent upon the equipment upgrade and it would be HD as soon as the deal could be completed. In fact I verified that with him, as I said I didn't understand.

So is the cable broadcast different than the OTA broadcast, in that they are using different equipment? Or possibly they have enough upgraded to pull this off and not the OTA? Obviously I don't quite get how this works.

No joy with KAYU-DT on Comcast for the Superbowl. *Major* dissappointment!

Yeah no kidding and what's worse is I expect that they have no real reason to get anything done quickly now that the big event has passed.

Spokesman-review had an article about a week ago regarding people buying and then returning their HDTV's after learning that they wouldn't be able to watch the game in HD here in Spokane.

It's 3:05 Sunday, and I'm thinking .. "Hey, IS Kayu HD capable?" and took a look at TitanTV and there was no HD tag. So, I Google and find this thread. What a sad, pathetic mess. Just wrote a letter to the engineer at KAYU. I think they should be Boycotted. If there's ANY television that should be broadcast in HD, the Superbowl is it!

Matt

Hi,

I live in the Spokane Valley near University Road. I'm able to pick up all digital TV channels with my Zenith Silver Sensor ($20.00) that sits on the back of the TV (the vented part covering the tube). Sometimes I have to aim it a little bit to get a channel just right but most of the time, I just flip through the channels and it works fine. Before I settled on the Silver Sensor, I tried a bunch of others including amplified rabbit ears, and none worked with all the channels and some didn't work hardly at all.

YMMV,

Matt

I heard that Comcast is finally offering the 6412 HD PVR to Spokanites -- can anyone confirm this? (I really, really don't want to call them)

Can anyone who has it give it a quick review?

-Allen

I've had one for a few months now. Works pretty good. A couple of minor glitches here and there, but by and large I'm pretty happy with it. It's not as feature-rich as TiVO or ReplayTV, but is better than the basic Dish Network PVR. The dual-tuner is a great feature - no more scheduling conflicts with shows starting at 9:59pm or running until 9:01pm! And being able to record two different shows while watching a recorded show is great. Picture and sound quality is outstanding either live or recored - I can't detect any difference in quality between live and recorded.

I just got offered the 29.99 deal for a year from Comcast. I am getting hooked up Wed. So the are offering the HDPVR to Spokane? I will give them a call and see if I can get it. I hope I don't regret the upgrade.

HD-DVRs are available in Spokane, the Motorola DCT 6412 with Microsoft software. Visit Comcast . com and click what's in my area then enter your zip for Local DVR, HDTV info from Comcast Spokane.

Hi,

I might move into the area later this year to Coeur d'Alene.
Who is the cable operator there & does it carry HD channels including locals?? I found at least a reference to Adelphia.
Also, what stations are transmitting HD currently??

Thanks.

Hi Robert,

I live in Coeur d'Alene and yes, Adelphia provides cable services in the area. I'm a subscriber to their internet broadband service, but dropped their television service after getting my HD equipment and D* dish over four years ago.

I live not far from their office and if I get a chance tomorrow, I'll stop by and see what information I can obtain for you.

Originally posted by Jbrolfe
Hi Robert,

I live in Coeur d'Alene and yes, Adelphia provides cable services in the area. I'm a subscriber to their internet broadband service, but dropped their television service after getting my HD equipment and D* dish over four years ago.

I live not far from their office and if I get a chance tomorrow, I'll stop by and see what information I can obtain for you.

That would be great!!
How is the internet service?? 2Mbps, 3Mbps
Do they have the Premier option of faster service than standard??
Also, if they have HD service, are they using the SA 8000HD DVR or 8300HD DVR??

Robert,

I'm giving you a link to Adelphia's Website for zipcode 83815: Adelphia-CDA (http://www.adelphia.com/cable_entertainment/channel_line_ups.cfm)
If you scroll down the available channels, those in the 700's are HD with 702-712 being the local channels. HBO (750), Showtime (751) and STARZ! (752) are available if you purchase those respective packages. Discovery (758) is available if you have the Extended Package. For $5.00 more per month, you'd get the HD Plus Package consisting of HD Net (754), HD Net Movies (755), iN DEMAND-HD (756), iN DEMAND 1-HD (757) and ESPN-HD (760).

They rent Motorola HD equipment. DCT 6400 Series DH Dual Tuner DVR for $12.90/mo and DCT 6200/CDT 6208 HD Receiver for $7.95/mo.

The broadband service is:

Premium - 6 MB Download, 768 KB Upload for $51.95 (stand alone w/o TV service) or less as part of a total package.

Standard- 4 MB Download, 384KB Upload for $42.95 (Again, stand alone)

plus $3.00/mo for modem rental.

I believe if you go back on this thread, not all of the Spokane stations are broadcasting OTA at full power yet. Here at my house, I can get ABC and the Idaho PTV OTA HD signals well.

Hope this helps you!

Originally posted by Jbrolfe
Robert,

I'm giving you a link to Adelphia's Website for zipcode 83815: Adelphia-CDA (http://www.adelphia.com/cable_entertainment/channel_line_ups.cfm)
If you scroll down the available channels, those in the 700's are HD with 702-712 being the local channels. HBO (750), Showtime (751) and STARZ! (752) are available if you purchase those respective packages. Discovery (758) is available if you have the Extended Package. For $5.00 more per month, you'd get the HD Plus Package consisting of HD Net (754), HD Net Movies (755), iN DEMAND-HD (756), iN DEMAND 1-HD (757) and ESPN-HD (760).

They rent Motorola HD equipment. DCT 6400 Series DH Dual Tuner DVR for $12.90/mo and DCT 6200/CDT 6208 HD Receiver for $7.95/mo.

The broadband service is:

Premium - 6 MB Download, 768 KB Upload for $51.95 (stand alone w/o TV service) or less as part of a total package.

Standard- 4 MB Download, 384KB Upload for $42.95 (Again, stand alone)

plus $3.00/mo for modem rental.

I believe if you go back on this thread, not all of the Spokane stations are broadcasting OTA at full power yet. Here at my house, I can get ABC and the Idaho PTV OTA HD signals well.

Hope this helps you!


Bless you & thank you very much:) :) :) :) :)
The HSI is faster than what I get here 4MB with Premium!!
Also the HD channels will allow me to drop DishNetwork & sell the buggy 921 receiver!!

Now, how is OTA reception in Cd'A from Spokane stations???
With ABC 4.1 being DTV 13, do you need a VHF\UHF combo antenna or will the UHF antenna pick it up??

DOes anyone know the status of the Fox HD channel for Adelphia???

ABC (4.1) broadcasts off Mt. Spokane to the north. Great reception for me in the 90's with amplified rabbit ears. Other Spokane stations are off the South Hill in Spokane, so the further north in CDA (or Hayden) you are, probably the better line of sight you'll have.

Fox KAYU (Fox) HD, go back on this thread to the first of the year and read the comments.

I have Distant Network Service for my motor home, so get all four east/west coast network feeds in HD from the satellite.

Originally posted by Jbrolfe
ABC (4.1) broadcasts off Mt. Spokane to the north. Great reception for me in the 90's with amplified rabbit ears. Other Spokane stations are off the South Hill in Spokane, so the further north in CDA (or Hayden) you are, probably the better line of sight you'll have.

Fox KAYU (Fox) HD, go back on this thread to the first of the year and read the comments.

I have Distant Network Service for my motor home, so get all four east/west coast network feeds in HD from the satellite.

Good to know the Directv allows the DNS there. This will give me another option vs. cable.

Originally posted by Jbrolfe

I have Distant Network Service for my motor home, so get all four east/west coast network feeds in HD from the satellite.

I just called Directv & CSR said that DNS in HD was not available for 83814?!?!?

Is the trick to have a "motor home"!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, you must have a qualifying motor home, fill out their form and send them copies of your driver's license and motor home registration. Costs $9 additional per month. Try this link to D*'s DNS search: D* DNS infor search (http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=dns&sp-a=sp1001d23b&server=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.directv.com&secureserver=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.directv.com&path=glb&page=Search.dsp&assetcount=5&login=0&home=0)

If that doesn't work, go to WWW.Directv.com and search for DNS.

This is what it now says for any link for DNS:
New legislation has changed the eligibility rules for DNS (Distant Network Service). We are currently updating our online search tool and are temporarily unable to evaluate whether you are eligible for DNS service. Please note that DNS can no longer be offered in any market where we offer Local into Local network programming. We're sorry for any inconvenience — please check back in early 2005 to determine your DNS eligibility.

Try this one:

DNS for RV's (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/dns_vehicles.dsp)

Good luck!

HI all,

Adelphia in Virginia just added Cinemax HD, ESPN2 HD, NFL HD to lineup.
Are these in CDA area yet???

BTW, I am moving to Hayden in August so I am checking out HD options!

Try this link: Adelphia (http://www.adelphia.com/)

The zip for Hayden is: 83835

Originally posted by Jbrolfe
Try this link: Adelphia (http://www.adelphia.com/)

The zip for Hayden is: 83835

I do check there, but they sometimes do not update the channel lineup in a timely manner!!

Just curious if the additions were nationally or just this area.

I'm not a subscriber to their TV content, so don't know if they do. Sorry!

I should have mentioned also that last week, it was announced that the Idaho Adelphia franchises would go to Time-Warner in the T-W/Comcast purchase of the Adelphia assets.

Originally posted by Jbrolfe
I should have mentioned also that last week, it was announced that the Idaho Adelphia franchises would go to Time-Warner in the T-W/Comcast purchase of the Adelphia assets.

Interesting. I thought that Spokane is Comcast??

It is...but that's in Washington! ;)

Originally posted by Jbrolfe
It is...but that's in Washington! ;)

true, I guess the logic of proximity does not apply!

Hopefully, they will keep & expand HD offerings that Adelphia has.
However, cable may only bide time until Directv or Dish expand their HD!!