I wouldn't count on seeing NASCAR in HD until the Pepsi 400, when NBC takes over coverage (and that assumes that the master control operator at WMGT can be bothered to put the HD on the air... watching HD on WMGT-DT is painful - entire segments between commercials left in 4x3, etc... but I do understand that it's bothersome to do all that switching and takes away from quality cell-talk time).

The only way you'll get NASCAR in HD is to put up an over the air antenna, or call up DirecTV and get set up there... just be sure your service address is in the Atlanta market, so you can get WAGA-DT. Either way, for the first half of the season, your only HDTV alternative *is* WAGA-DT/Atlanta

Sure would have been nice to have seen the superbowl in HD! I guess I'll have to live with the highlights on ESPN HD that are being shown in HD. Now all I have to live with is "24" not being in HD......it's truly a shame. <sigh>

Bob

I must say it was nice to see the Budweiser Shootout in HD. Pretty pictures :)

Unfortunately, in order to do so, I was forced to view a non-local station.

If local stations actually *cared* about their local audiences, they'd get on the horn to their legislators and make it illegal to view out-of-market stations over the air, just like it's illegal to receive stations from out-of-market via satellite.

Or they'd provide their local audiences the same quality the out-of-market stations do.

Of course, option #1 is less expensive, and makes more sense for cash-strapped stations.

Huh?

Rant time...

Satellite delivery of TV signals made it possible to receive television stations from anywhere in the country, no matter where you live.

Broadcasters said it wasn't fair to make them compete for viewers with stations from outside their market, and Congress agreed. So it's against the law for satellite companies to sell you network TV signals from, say, Seattle, if you have an affiliate of the same network available to you over the air.

Now the law has been changed slightly, allowing satellite customers to receive "significantly viewed" stations via satellite... here in Houston County, that amounts to a couple of stations in Columbus, GA. But the network stations in Macon retain the right to force the satellite companies to block the Columbus stations during network programming.

Basically, the laws have been written to favor the local station. Prohibiting people from viewing network programming via any but their local affiliate... but only if received from satellite. Cable companies can carry any channel they want, subject to the same programming blackout rules, though.

That's all been well and good... for the local network affiliates. They've got exclusivity, if you want to watch their network, you have to watch them, and their commercials.

In the past, if you should happen to want to watch another network affiliate, you could... with your regular old TV antenna. But the signal was likely to be less than stellar, so you'd get ghosting, video noise, etc. So very few would do that.

With the advent of digital signals, it becomes possible to watch 2 or more network affiliates of the same network, if the viewer has their outdoor antenna system all set up correctly (amplifiers, rotors, etc). But it's a digital signal. If you can receive it, it's good video... no ghosts, video noise (unless introduced in transmission), etc, etc.

So network affiliates need to do one of two things... they either need to provide the same video quality that other network affiliates in their region provide... or they need to find some other way to keep the eyeballs watching *their* video, and not another affiliate.

In middle GA, we have two cases of network affiliates that can't/won't provide HD programming on their digital feeds.

WMGT-DT, the NBC affiliate, has the *ability* to send HD when NBC has it. But frequently, they "forget" to switch to it. Unlike the CBS and ABC affiliates here, WMGT doesn't have automated equipment to do the switching, and they depend on the master control operator remembering to switch. Watching NBC's HD is painful many times.

However, if one is inclined, one can watch WXIA-DT from Atlanta. They have (every time I've watched) gotten it right every time.

The other case in middle GA is WGXA-DT, the Fox affiliate in Macon. The station doesn't have the equipment to bring high definition TV to middle Georgia.

But, if one wants to see HD programming on Fox, it's possible to watch WAGA-DT from Atlanta.

Admittedly, HD viewer numbers are miniscule (when compared with the number of folks who watch the analog NTSC signal, either over the air, on cable or satellite)... so HD isn't a priority for the stations. It costs a lot of money for a minimal return in viewer numbers (aka ad revenue).

But, as more and more people replace aging television sets with digital/HD sets, those numbers will grow.

So, under the current premise that a TV station has been serving an area as a monopoly, essentially, with a certain network, and therefore has the right to legal protections to keep that monopoly in their area (ie the satellite and cable laws regarding programming blackout, etc), it stands to reason that it is unfair to expect local stations to compete for viewers with out-of-market affiliates of their same network.

If local affiliates actually care about the numbers of local viewers, they will either upgrade their facilities to provide the same video quality as stations in surrounding markets.... which 2 stations in the Macon market have done... or they would get on the horn to their legislators to get laws crafted to regulate what you can legally receive over the air.

Getting laws passed would easily be the least expensive method for local affiliates. Upgrading facilities is terribly expensive.

I fear that's what we'll see. I half expect NAB to start lobbying for market exclusivity requirements being built in to digital/HD receivers.

Personally, I'd like to see the gloves come off, take out all those silly market exclusive rules, and let people see whatever they wanna see, without restriction. If a local station can't provide anything people wanna see... oh well. Sell the license to someone who can/will. The whole notion that any business has any "right" to continue to exist, if necessary with laws to protect their business, is, to me, just downright stupid.

OK, done with the rant. Let the flames begin!

The whole notion that any business has any "right" to continue to exist, if necessary with laws to protect their business, is, to me, just downright stupid.

Get a clue Dave.

There is a big difference between satellite and over-the-air. Over-the-air is a direct transmission from the broadcaster to you. On satellite/cable it is not a direct transmission but rather a retransmission. The difference can be summed up in three words:

Retransmitting Is Copying.

Therefore it is subject to all the protections that our nation's copyright laws allow.

You don't have to worry about over-the-air being restricted. You have the freedom to view any direct broadcast signal that your antenna can receive. In fact it's the only freedom you really have in this whole matter.

Originally posted by Wayne Bundrick
Get a clue Dave.

There is a big difference between satellite and over-the-air. Over-the-air is a direct transmission from the broadcaster to you. On satellite/cable it is not a direct transmission but rather a retransmission. The difference can be summed up in three words:

[b]Retransmitting Is Copying.

Therefore it is subject to all the protections that our nation's copyright laws allow.

Which is simply parroting the NAB line.

Using TIVO is copying, too. So's using your handy, dandy VCR.

Let's not argue about personal use, etc. I believe, and you cannot disprove (nor can I prove), that NAB uses "copyright law" as a way to keep affiliates from having to face out-of-market competition from affiliates of the same network.

And I'll be honest - if I owned a network affiliate, I'd probably feel the same way about it.

It'll be interesting to see if you're right about out-of-market over-the-air remaining available.

I have given up on receiving NBC or Fox in my area. Just too many darn trees. This weekend I put up an XG91 UHF antenna from antennasdirect, and saw zero improvement over my CM4221. I now own a Terk TV55, the cheapest RS VHF/UHF combo, a CM4221, and the XG91. At least the RS is serving to pick up CBS. Must be time for a garage sale.

My understanding is that locals are coming via Directv. I just hope they will be in HD.

Walt

Dear Viewers:
From WGXA:
Have patience. It will come. I don't know when, but it will come. We have received our PSIP gear from Harris, and are in the process of installing it. I know, that does nothing for HD, but it is an FCC mandate that has to be gotten out of the way. The subject of high def is not dead here. Discussions and proposals have been circulated. That's all I can say. For my part, I have designed an interface that will cause the Fox splicer switch to follow the analog switcher when it goes to network, thus avoiding the problem mentioned that another station is having concerning whole segments being broadcast in low def in a high def program. The PSIP changes will no doubt cause problems, so please report here if you lose reception and we will address it as soon as possible. Thank you,

Ralph Carson
Assistant Chief Engineer
WGXA TV

Is anyone able to get a HD signal from an indoor antenna?
I seem to only get about 60% signal on a good day, and that looks like crap.
I just purchased the Terk HD Pro at Radio shack hoping to see the Daytona 500 tomorrow in HD. I really doubt its going to happen, but one can wish.

I live in Warner Robins.

Unfortunately, I can promise you will not be watching the daytona 500 with an indoor antenna.
The local fox affiliate is not yet broadcasting an HD signal, so your only hope is to pick up the atlanta fox signal.
If you read through the posts above, Oldave has had some success with picking up Fox atlanta and has his setup nicely explained.
While I get excellent reception from all the macon locals, I have not had any success in warner robins of receiving the atlanta locals, with a 90" antenna 25ft up. Of course I am not 100% sure that my receiver's are not contributing to this.

Originally posted by gladesteen
Is anyone able to get a HD signal from an indoor antenna?
I seem to only get about 60% signal on a good day, and that looks like crap.
I just purchased the Terk HD Pro at Radio shack hoping to see the Daytona 500 tomorrow in HD. I really doubt its going to happen, but one can wish.

I live in Warner Robins.

Well, first problem is that the 500 is on Fox, so your only shot at getting it in HD is by picking up Atlanta. Your chances of doing that on an indoor is exceedingly small.

As far as other HD, I recommend the Zenith Silver Sensor. I tried three different antennas before settling on that one. The others were the sort available in Walmart and Radio Shack. The difference in results between the Silver Sensor and those others was stunning. The Silver Sensor can be found at Sears and BestBuy, though not necessarily in stock at yours.

Yes, you are right, no HDTV racing for me :(

However i can report that the "new" Terk HDTV Pro antenna is working GREAT! I've picked up the Fox station in Macon and I am getting nearly 90% signal rate! The picture looks much better than satellite. I say "new" because the guy at Radio shack said they just got them in and he had no idea how they perform. I can tell you that i tried 3 antennas from Wally world and not one would give me a clear signal. The best i got from them was about 60% signal. This Terk is smokin' the Phillips brand easy!

It is a little funny tho........sitting here watching a $3k plasma tv with rabbit ears! LOL !!!

Hopefully Macon gets their act together and starts pumping out HD signals!!

Originally posted by gladesteen

Hopefully Macon gets their act together and starts pumping out HD signals!!

Don't worry they will, but when they do they will either fail to flip the switch to actually broadcast HD content in HD or fail to have 5.1 pass through meaning you won't enjoy surround sound on programs that have it.

Although the fox affilate will not have either of these problems (does the 5.1 pass through too though?) if they ever get the hd thing going.

Originally posted by Bripeace
Don't worry they will, but when they do they will either fail to flip the switch to actually broadcast HD content in HD or fail to have 5.1 pass through meaning you won't enjoy surround sound on programs that have it.

Although the fox affilate will not have either of these problems (does the 5.1 pass through too though?) if they ever get the hd thing going.
The NBC affiliate is the only one having that problem. WMAZ and WPGA invested the effort to make the switch seamless. Almost like professionally run outfits ;) (Hi John and Hal!)

And we've seen from WGXA that they'll be doing the same once they finally get all the HD gear in.

Which leaves WMGT as one of the nation's biggest amateur TV stations.

Many are hoping that if WGXA doesn't get to HD before the Pepsi 400 on July 2, at least WMGT will bother to switch back to HD after local commercials.

I do not recommend indoor antennas for DTV reception. Since at this time the signals are weak, you need the benefit of a high gain antenna, which would have to be large enough to be outside. Also, high gain antennas are directional, also beneficial to reduce multipath reception. Though you may not see multipath in digital, it still can degrade the signal and make the signal threshhold level higher. Even a simple outdoor antenna setup is better than an indoor antenna.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV

To a broadcaster it is encouraging to see that someone is having good luck with an indoor antenna. Considering how weak our signal is, it's good to know that it can be sucessfully picked up with "rabbit ears".

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV

We now have our PSIP system operating. You should see program information there. We still have some things to work out, but basically it is running.

Incidently, when we do get our HD up, it will be pass through, and it will be switched without demodulation, so the 5.1 Dolby signal certainly will be intact for network programming. And as for switching, I believe we already have that worked out. Our HD switch, which we already have, will follow the analog switcher automatically and will not require operator intervention. Therefore to the operator, there will be no difference, or new procedures to learn.

Ralph carson
WGXA TV

Thanks for the update Ralph. Do you have any plans to increase the power on the HD signal so more folks can see your broadcast?

That will probably come after HD pass through. There was talk about doing it all at once, but that fell through. That's all I can say about it.

Ralph carson
WGXA TV

Originally posted by oldave
When I have the antenna pointed at Atlanta, I get:

2-1, WSB-DT
2-2, WSB-DT (ABC NewsNow)
5-1, WAGA-DT
5-2, WAGA-DT (SD)
11-1, WXIA-DT
11-2, WXIA-DT (usually 11Alive Doppler)
13-1, WMAZ-DT
13-2, WMAZ-DT (Doppler)
OCCASIONAL - 14-1 through 14-4, WPXA-DT (Pax, Pax West and 2 religion channels)
17-1, WTBS-DT
17-2, WTBS-DT (SD)
OCCASIONAL - 19-1, WGCL-DT (bad PSIP major channel #, should be 46-1, may have changed by now)
34-1, WUVG-DT (Athens - Univision)
36-1, WATL-DT
43-1, WUPA-DT (Bad PSIP major channel #, should be 69-1, may have changed by now)
58-1, WPGA-DT
63-1 through 63-4, WHSG-DT (TBN channels, believe this is a bad PSIP, too, think it's supposed to be 58-1 to 4)


The only problem children are WGCL and WPXA, and WGCL has an application in to go up significantly in power.

Once WGXA and WMGT get their acts together and actually transmit some power, should be able to see those, even with the antenna pointed at ATL.

Ole Dave

What equipment do you have in Warner Robbins?

I am considering OTA for HD in Thomaston.

Originally posted by Wayne Bundrick
Get a clue Dave.

There is a big difference between satellite and over-the-air. Over-the-air is a direct transmission from the broadcaster to you. On satellite/cable it is not a direct transmission but rather a retransmission. The difference can be summed up in three words:

Retransmitting Is Copying.

Therefore it is subject to all the protections that our nation's copyright laws allow.

So why can't Cox Cable in WR retransmit an Atlanta station during primetime with their permission? Why does the Macon station get to say "NO" to that?

I'm certainly no authority on this subject, however I believe they can retransmit the atlanta fox broadcast but simply don't.
I think it's falls into the frequently viewed rules. Cox has the atlanta locals in sd for CBS, ABC, and NBC listed in their lineup. and there is another cable company in macon that does retransmit fox in standard def.
As to why they are allowed to do this, but satellite providers are not, I have no idea. And why they do this for standard definition but not HD, again i am mystified.

Originally posted by Ralph Carson
Attention AVS forum members:
My name is Ralph Carson and I am Fox 24's Assistant Chief Engineer. I have read various comments on PSIP problems on our channel 16. We have repaired these problems. However, they appear to show up only on some sets and we have no knowledge of which ones. Our monitor receivers do not display the problem. If you are receiving our signal with sufficient strength and are not getting a picture I would like to know more about it. please post your make and model, and let me know what is happening. If you have been getting our signal, but are no longer getting it in spite of having good signal, I would like to know more.

I can assure y'all that we (the engineering dept) are very interested in DTV and are doing all we can to promote it. However we must wait for the corporation to move on it. Until then, we are doing all we can to be ready. Meanwhile, we want to iron out the kinks in the system we have, and your help in this regard will be appreciated. Thank you,

Ralph Carson
FOX24

Ralph, I have been receiving the digital wgxa signal at around 65 on my Sony SAT-HD300 for quite some time but I am not able to get a picture. I receive the other Macon stations on this receiver, including wmgt with a lower signal strength and get a picture including HDTV feeds when broadcast. Is there anything you can do on your end to allow my receiver to pick up the digital broadcast from your station? I get a great picture with the analog feed but I don't want to miss out when you start broadcasting in HD.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Originally posted by rmcatee
Ralph, I have been receiving the digital wgxa signal at around 65 on my Sony SAT-HD300 for quite some time but I am not able to get a picture. I receive the other Macon stations on this receiver, including wmgt with a lower signal strength and get a picture including HDTV feeds when broadcast. Is there anything you can do on your end to allow my receiver to pick up the digital broadcast from your station? I get a great picture with the analog feed but I don't want to miss out when you start broadcasting in HD.

Thanks in advance for your help! I don't know if I'm any help and I don't know anything about your Sony STB or your TV, but on my Mits TV, on the dtv input, it will only except 1080i or 480i/480p. It will not except 720p. In other words, maybe the Sony STB's output is not set to whatever your TV's resolution is. I have a Voom STB and you can set the resolution for the DTV output to any of the resolutions including native. If your Sony STB is set to a resolution that your TV won't do, that might be your problem. In other words, maybe it's set to native or 720p and your tv won't recognize 720p. I hope this makes sense, but channel 24 is probably 480i or 480p, since they are not HD yet. I would think all tv's would do 480i/480p though. On another note. I have to point my antenna directly at the towers to get it to come in (most of the time). You may need to upgrade your antenna.

Call Directv to get FOX HD. I got the waiver from the Macon stations and now have east and west coast FOX HD. I also get NBC east and west coast HD, so there's no need to worry about WMGT doing it properly.

Dear Voomvoom:
I do not know why your Sony set top box isn't working. We are transmitting in 480P. I would suggest you take it to a TV repair shop and have it checked. You could also check with Sony tech support. I will be speaking with a Harris technician today about a PSIP problem we are having, and if I remember, I will ask him about this. We are all on a learning curve on this and all I can do is try and make sure that our plant is working properly. As a last resort, I might have you bring the box to the studio and let me play with it and see if I can get it going. However, I am not calling for that at the moment. I'll let you know if I learn anything useful.

Ralph Carson
Assistant Chief Engineer
Fox 24 WGXA

Dear Voomvoom:
I spoke to the Harris representative and he suggested that it might be a multipath problem. Multipath, if it's real bad, can overwhelm the adaptive correction circuitry and shut down the receiver. It is more of a problem in the city where there are tall buildings, but might be in other places. It can be frequency selective. The solution would to be to use a very directional (outdoor) antenna, if this is indeed the problem. I can't say whether or not this is it, but it's worth a shot. You might want to test the receiver in another location to verify this. If the receiver works there, then it's a possibility. You will have a good signal level in this case, because the bounced signals are on the same channel. However, If you live in relatively flat terrain then this is probably not the problem. Good Luck

Ralph Carson

Originally posted by artspret
Call Directv to get FOX HD. I got the waiver from the Macon stations and now have east and west coast FOX HD. I also get NBC east and west coast HD, so there's no need to worry about WMGT doing it properly.

artspret
How long did the approval process take?
Thanx
Walt

Originally posted by Ralph Carson
Dear Voomvoom:
I spoke to the Harris representative and he suggested that it might be a multipath problem. Multipath, if it's real bad, can overwhelm the adaptive correction circuitry and shut down the receiver. It is more of a problem in the city where there are tall buildings, but might be in other places. It can be frequency selective. The solution would to be to use a very directional (outdoor) antenna, if this is indeed the problem. I can't say whether or not this is it, but it's worth a shot. You might want to test the receiver in another location to verify this. If the receiver works there, then it's a possibility. You will have a good signal level in this case, because the bounced signals are on the same channel. However, If you live in relatively flat terrain then this is probably not the problem. Good Luck

Ralph Carson

Hey guys, it was me who was having the problem picking up FOX 24. I pick up the other digital stations fine. The signal is a little weak for the FOX station and I was not sure if the problem was this or something else. I know my receiver picked up the digital wmgt broadcast when they were doing 480p early on. Not that is was an improvement over the analog broadcast. I get wmgt and wmaz in 1080i and wpga in 720p without problems. I don't believe my receiver is a problem. I am content to watch FOX 24 in 480i over 480p for now. It is the 720p broadcast and HDTV that I am waiting for. By the way, I have an outdoor antenna that is currently mounted in my attic. So I do have some room for improvement if needed. I am also expecting FOX 24 to transmit a stronger signal when they go 720p. Please tell me I am not assuming something here. I do have directv also and would be interested in the information required for waivers.

Does anybody know what WMAZ is planning to do this year with the NCAA games in HD. Last year I remember the digital channel always carrying an HD game, independently of what was on the SD channel.

I ask specifically because some people believe their stations will be multicasting to deliver both sites with HD Games. According to the main HD programming thread there are two sites on thurs, and two on friday which will broadcast all their games in HD.

Channel 13 appears to be broadcasting in digital now. I have Cox Cable and it has 4 different channels listed in the guide. Just checked and each is broadcasting a different basket ball game.

Originally posted by Ralph Carson
Dear Voomvoom:
I do not know why your Sony set top box isn't working. We are transmitting in 480P. I would suggest you take it to a TV repair shop and have it checked. You could also check with Sony tech support. I will be speaking with a Harris technician today about a PSIP problem we are having, and if I remember, I will ask him about this. We are all on a learning curve on this and all I can do is try and make sure that our plant is working properly. As a last resort, I might have you bring the box to the studio and let me play with it and see if I can get it going. However, I am not calling for that at the moment. I'll let you know if I learn anything useful.

Ralph Carson
Assistant Chief Engineer
Fox 24 WGXA Ralph thanks for your concern along with the info as well as checking with the Harris representative and I'm sorry if my post was misleading, but I was trying to help rmcatee, who was the one having a problem. I have a deep fringe Winegard with a rotor and don't have any current problems picking up channel 24. For FOX HD, I'm able to get Fox 5 from Atlanta after dark and sometimes during the daylight. The daylight dropouts can be irritating at times, especially trying to watch the races. It will be great when you guys get your HD going. Hope it won't be to long. Thanks again.
Al

Going HD and going high power are two different issues. One requires transmitter upgrades, including larger antenna and transmission line, and the other requires studio to transmitter microwave link upgrades. (For WGXA) Since the former requires a new transmitter, it is more expensive and will probably come later. A modest power raising could probably be done, and it would be a lot cheaper, but since it would not be legal power in the end, it probably will never be done. I hope that if we don't do it all at once, we do the HD upgrades first.

Ralph carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24

I am DYING to see an eipsode of 24 in HD......any chance that will happen soon???

Bob

Dear Bobbareeno:
You won't get any until you get it all. There is no date set at this time.

Ralph Carson

Looks like DirecTV now has the locals in Macon. I will try to add them when i get home. I know they are not HD but at least i can Tivo some of the shows now! Yippee. I hear that 24 is pretty good.

Now DirecTV says i have to get another dish to ge the locals! Looks like i will stick with cable and switch when my contract expires later this year. i am ticked that I waited for the locals and now find out they want me to put another dish on my roof AND the locals are not in HD.

From what I have heard, the local channels are on a different satellite, requiring either a separate dish, or a dual horn dish. (the dual horn only works if the two sattellites are close together) By the way, they pick us up off the air for uplink, but I believe they use the digital signal. Don't know for sure. Of course, the digital looks real good off the air.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E. WGXA TV24

Where is their local POP located?

Direct TV has their point of pickup at WMGT's studio. Dish Network's POP is at the Clear channel studios on hiway 49 south of Macon. I did find out that they are using our analog signal, not the digital. We found this out when the big RCA NTSC transmitter went down and the little Harris DT didn't. We got calls from at least two satellite companies. Of course, analog can look pretty good if the reception equipment is carefully optimized. We transmit a ghost cancelling reference on our NTSC signal, but few receivers have the capability to use it.

Ralph Carson
Assistant Chief Engineer
WGXA TV24

Originally posted by Ralph Carson We transmit a ghost cancelling reference on our NTSC signal, but few receivers have the capability to use it.[/B]
Now if you could just get that new digital STL so you could get the HD out to the transmitter...

Incidentally, just checked for a moment on Sunday to see if there was NASCAR on Fox in HD (there wasn't, and won't be, at least this season, I hear), but even if I'd wanted to watch SD digital, the audio was way too hot. Chris Myers is a moron, but it's worse when he's distorted.

I think that the Tek DS-1000 demods that E* uses in their local POPs have Ghost Cancellers built in. Also, a third audio for the SAP.....they were customized by Tektronix.

There used to be an (maybe it was JVC) S-VHS machine that had GC. I was never able to buy a consumer stand-alone GC, though. They never tried to market them, just the expensive pro version. Sure wish I had one!

I don't think ghost cancelling really caught on. I reckon it came too close before digital television. I reckon manufacturers figured "Why worry about it, they'll be replacing these sets with digital sets before too long". We will use our analog microwave when we go HD, but with a Numark analog coder. The old microwave is widebanded enough, it is much wider than what is required for NTSC, but requires a special modulator device to carry a digital signal. The Numark device will fill that need. We have already tested one with our SD feed, and it works quite well. It is my understanding that it will not degrade the signal in HD.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24

Incidently, you Cox cable subscribers might be interested in this. Cox Cable takes our digital signal off the air for their digital signal. They take their analog signal from a fiber optic link from our studio to their headend. Therefore if we lose power to the transmitter site or if our signal path goes down or digital transmitter goes off the air, you will lose signal. However, if you don't mind watching analog, it will still be up. Just switch to the analog channel and you can continue to watch.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24

Ralph,
Maybe I've just never noticed it before, but I didn't know there was a digital channel being delivered for wgxa over cox. The only locals I've found in the lineup are the ones in the analog tier and the ones delivering hd, channels 704, 705, 706.

I don't roam out of the HD lineup very often, so maybe i've missed it, but I can say that WGXA is at least not clustered with the other digital locals in the 700s.

Of course I haven't watched a fox program since the superbowl, so this is the first time since I switched from OTA to Cox that i've even looked for fox.

Keep up the good fight for us.

I will try and find out on what channel the digital signal resides. I was not aware they were carrying our digital signal either until April 26, when I had a conversation with one of their engineers. When I find out, I will let you know. If they just started, you may have to rescan their box (if it has that feature). I do not know how the new boxes operate. Anyway, I will ask.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV

WGNM (analog 64), the UPN affiliate in Macon, should be up on the air later today (4/28/05)... but that could slip to tomorrow (4/29/05), depending on how many sections of transmission line end up bad.

It'll be on channel 45, with 1 million watts of effective radiated power - no low power Special Temporary Authority for WGNM. When their digital comes on, they'll be at full power.

I'm unclear on the status of their STL for HD, I know it was ordered and on the way a couple of weeks ago.

UPN in HD... coming soon.

I get HDTV on my Samsung HLP from COX. I noticed poor quality image on705(NBC) on and off over the past week. Previously reception had always been great. All other stations, expecially Discovery and INHD are awesome. 704 is not as crisp.

Had COX out to change the new DVR box. That did not fix the problem. He removed a splitter and checked all connections. He said I have substandard indoor cable.

Is anybody else noticing a problem with fine pixelation on 705?

Why would just one channel have this problem and all others be OK?

Will probably call COX back when I get a chance. I am paying for high def and expect to get a great picture.

Threads merged.

Looks like WGNM-DT has had to slip further. When I hear further, I'll post here.

I inqired about the digital channel for Cox for our programming. The channel is 105, but they have it mapped in the digital box as channel 2. So you think you're getting channel 2, the analog channel but you're really getting channel 105 the digital version. It is multiplexed with several other programs on channel 105. They probably did it this way because it isn't high def yet. Anyway, That's what i was told.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24

Are any of the Macon channels broadcasting their digital signal full power now. If not what are the chances of someone from Dublin picking up the digital signal.

I do not know if anyone is transmitting at full licensed power. I will find out if I can and answer that for you. We did an air test one time in Dublin of our analog signal which is at full power. The result wasn't very good. You're on the fringe. I would expect that we will need to be at full power to be of any use to you, if even then. With digital, you need a certain level before you will receive anything at all. However, once you have cleared that level and gone a little higher, You should get a flawless picture. It all depends on where you are, your antenna heigth, and how well your antenna receives. A lot of luck helps too. Before you invest in a big antenna system , you might want to check if anyone else in your area is receiving a signal on the desired channel. So, How 'Bout it Dublin? Anyone out there receiving anything? I once had an outdoor antenna with preamp and all that. I was able to receive WTBS in Atlanta suprisingly well, but only at night. In the day, it was gone. Of course, at night is when most people watch TV, so I found it quite useful. Since then, I have switched to cable.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24

Also, most of these antennas are mounted on the side of the tower and are directional. Since our city of license is Macon, we strive to hit Macon, and Warner Robins. That's just where the most people are. Unfortunately for Dublin that puts you on the weak part of the signal, and it is also shaded by the tower. I expect and hope that we will remedy this when we go full power by putting the antenna on top of the tower and using an omnidirectional antenna. But I cannot guarantee it will happen that way. It may even have to wait for cessation of NTSC service, which occupies that spot now.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24

Originally posted by ww2154
Are any of the Macon channels broadcasting their digital signal full power now. If not what are the chances of someone from Dublin picking up the digital signal.
WPGA-DT (ABC) is at full licensed power (18,000 watts), and WGNM-DT (UPN) will be once transmission line issues are resolved and they get on the air (1,000,000 watts).

WPGA-DT has a Construction Permit to go to 100,000 watts.

Everybody else in Macon has Special Temporary Authority (STA) to operate at less than their full power:

WMAZ-DT, STA for 7,000 watts, Construction Permit for 14,000 watts
WMGT-DT, STA for 3,300 watts, Construction Permit for 48,000 watts
WGXA-DT, STA for 1,160 watts, Construction Permit for 1,000,000 watts

Current antenna heights vary, as well, and in some cases are not as high as the final installation will be.

Originally posted by Ralph Carson
It may even have to wait for cessation of NTSC service
00:00 EST 1/1/07, right? :D

I suspect we can agree that won't happen!

Yes, NTSC will eventually die. This DTV is that much better. I believe it will catch on, in spite of broadcaster's reluctance to support it. However, it will be a long time before NTSC is completely gone. Even when the equipment is gone, there is much archival material in NTSC. I suspect it will be awhile before we shut down and dismantle the old RCA transmitter. It has been in operation since 1982. It will take even longer for the local programming to be HD. The gear too expensive to just throw away.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24

I was just channel surfing and came across channel 45 DT remapped to 64.1. Thursday is not an OTA TV night for me. I am between movies (watching off the birds) and considering bedtime when.... "There it is!!!!!!!". Unfortunately it's SD, maybe in a few days or a couple of weeks we can see some HD. With "Enterprize" gone, not much left, except maybe "Girlfriends". But, at least we have another digital. Now let's get some more HD!!!!


EDIT: By the way... Thank You WGNM!!!!!!!

Yeah, I got a look at their transmitter the other day. Ooooh nice! It's a 30 kilowatt IOT. Beautiful! You shouldn't have any trouble picking that up.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV

I was just channel surfing and came across channel 45 DT remapped to 64.1. Thursday is not an OTA TV night for me. I am between movies (watching off the birds) and considering bedtime when.... "There it is!!!!!!!". Unfortunately it's SD, maybe in a few days or a couple of weeks we can see some HD. With "Enterprize" gone, not much left, except maybe "Girlfriends". But, at least we have another digital. Now let's get some more HD!!!!


EDIT: By the way... Thank You WGNM!!!!!!!

Is anyone else having problems with WPGA-DT this weekend? I am getting 84%-86% signal strength but no picture.

WPGA seems to be having trouble with their PSIP again. Try rescanning.
Regards
Walt

WPGA seems to be having trouble with their PSIP again. Try rescanning.
Regards
Walt
Thanks for the suggestion. Still no luck. :(

I don't know about WPGA, but we have had recent reports of people not being able to receive our signal. We even rebooted our Flexicoder hoping that if something was corrupted, it would be restored in one case. It did not work. We think what is happening is that now that the foliage is on the trees, it is attenuating (reducing) the weak signals to below the threshold for reception in some marginal cases. This is why broadcasters use high power transmitters for digital as well as analog. Since distance is limited somewhat by the curvature of the earth, the aim is to saturate what you can reach. More power will give you more distance, but it is limited, especially at UHF. With our "flea" power, it isn't difficult to knock out the signal with a little attenuation.

There may be some news on the HD front, but I have to confirm it before I can report it.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24

Ralph:

Any further info on whether we might get Fox football in HD this fall?

Thanks for posting here BTW - I promise to watch even more Fox when I can get it in HD.

All I can say at this time is that there good reason for hope.

Ralph Carson

High def Falcons games on Fox would be just awesome.....I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!

Bob

I am pleased to announce that HDTV for WGXA DT has been approved and equipment has been ordered. Preparations are under way here at the studio. Harris has quoted a 60 day delivery time for them to build the equipment. Other manufacturers are similar. Thank you for your patience.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24, WGXA DT (16)

Fantastic Ralph!

Is Cox cable going to carry the HD signal?

Wonderful news - grats for your work on this.


I am pleased to announce that HDTV for WGXA DT has been approved and equipment has been ordered. Preparations are under way here at the studio. Harris has quoted a 60 day delivery time for them to build the equipment. Other manufacturers are similar. Thank you for your patience.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24, WGXA DT (16)

Excellent! Thanks for the updates Ralph.

Outstanding Ralph!! Thanks for all your updates that you've given here in the forum. I look forward to seeing Fox in HD! I assume Cox will get your HD feed as soon as it's available since they already get your digital feed now?

Bob

There is one caveat. The payments that were made yesterday was partial. Harris and Nucomm will want complete payment before delivery. I doubt that the company will hold that up, having paid part, but it is not impossible. However, I anticipate things will go smoothly, and our only remaining problems will be getting it up and running, once equipment is delivered. At worse, things could be further delayed, but for now, I am expecting none of that. I have spent the week rearranging racks and installing new ones in preparation. My Chief, Richard Blanton is responsible for pitching the upgrade to the corporate boss. He is the one to thank.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV 24

Ralph,
Thanks to you and Richard. This is good news. I was wondering if ya'll had maybe boosted your power recently. I basically keep my deep fringe antenna pointed towards Atlanta and to receive 24 I have to move it about 20 or so degrees towards the west to pick you up, but lately I haven't touched my rotor and have been getting you good pretty much around the clock. If you haven't boosted your power, I guess it's all the recent clouds boxing the signal in. But, whatever it is, I like it. It can only get better when you get your HD. Thanks again for the update....

Al

No, we haven't done anything with power. That will come later. We pitched the HD upgrade on the idea that it did not require the purchase of a transmitter at this time. High power transmitters are outrageously expensive, and that would have been a deal killer. Our current analog transmitter is the same R.C.A. transmitter we logged on with in 1982. However, it is a very good transmitter, and it has undergone several modifications over the years to get rid of weak points. But as far as HD goes, our little Harris Ranger will have to do for now.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24/WGXA DT (16)

hello everyone,
perhaps someone on here can help me out. I am relocating to Milledgeville and will be purchasing a nice HDTV for my new house. I am living out on Lake Sinclair, which is outside of the Milledgeville city limits. I think that I have Mallard cable available where I am, but I am not very optimistic about this cable company and I have been using satellite for years with great results. One problem though, I am thinking I might not be close enough to Macon to receive the OTA HD broadcasts. What are my options for HD? Can I get the NY feed through Direct TV, or am I SOL and have no options for HD content. I need to watch football in HD this fall!!

thanks everyone!

I remember people at Lake Sinclair getting TV from Macon and Atlanta when I was a kid.

You probably would be OK with a good outdoor antenna and a rotor, or a pair of antennas (one toward Macon, one toward Atlanta), and a switch. Just gotta clear the thicker trees. I would try Atlanta first, for the UHF DTVs.....I think most are running full power.

We have a lake house on Sinclair and the reception with a medium-sized Winegard + amp is not good enough to hold the Macon CBS & ABC without significant breakup.

I would suggest DTV since you can get Sunday Package + ESPN HD (now home to MNF) and probably qualify for the national network feeds in HD. We do not have Satellite at the moment at the lake and probably will not be getting it since we do not watch much football (or TV in general) there.

I do not have DTV and never have had it so the above is what I read in places like dbstalk and here on the AVS HD programming forums.

Good Luck!


...I am relocating to Milledgeville and will be purchasing a nice HDTV for my new house. I am living out on Lake Sinclair... what are my options for HD?

We have been in communications with Cox cable. Their plan is to set up a fiber link for HD from our studio as soon as we make the upgrade. This is similar to the one we have now for analog. It has the advantage that when the transmitter goes off the air, Cox still has a signal. For analog, it also improves quality. However, for digital I doubt the improvement it will be noticable, because digital transmission masks degradations anyway, but it can't hurt. Hopefully I will be able to send them a signal the day we cut over. By the way, our digital signal be off the air or unmodulated for awhile when that day comes. Until then, we are getting ready.

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA TV24, WGXA DT (16)

Ralph:

Thanks for the update, great to have you here. We hope all the planning works out.

thanks for the information everyone
the thing is, I think dish network only carries CBS right now. hopefully they will carry the others in the near future.

thanks for the information everyone
the thing is, I think dish network only carries CBS right now. hopefully they will carry the others in the near future.

cgreer00,
I live on the other side of Macon from Milledgeville and the lakes. I have a Winegard deepfringe VHF/UHF/FM antenna with an amplifier and a rotor. I usually have my antenna pointed toward Atlanta and have no problem picking up Atlanta or Macon, but I sometimes have to adjust the rotor to get Macon. I have more trouble when I point directly at the Macon towers. I'm about 20 miles from the Macon tv towers, probably 90 or so from Atlanta. The Macon stations have only 1 VHF digital, WMAZ, the CBS affilliate. So if you opt for an antenna, you need to get a VHF/UHF antenna and I'm sure an amplifier would do you best. 11 Alive the NBC affilliate,which is the only VHF digital in Atlanta and WUPA the UPN affilliate, are 2 stations I rarely have any trouble 24/7. The other Atlanta stations sometimes give me trouble in the daylight hours, but hardly ever after dark. The weather however can be a different story. Also, up at Sinclair, with a good deep fringe antenna, you should also be able to get the Augusta stations. I think !!!!
Anyway, the only way you're going to know for sure, is give it a try. I hope this is some help. Lots of luck.......
P.S. the Braves at home on WTBS in HD are amazing !!!

Al

cgreer00,
I live on the other side of Macon from Milledgeville and the lakes. I have a Winegard deepfringe VHF/UHF/FM antenna with an amplifier and a rotor. I usually have my antenna pointed toward Atlanta and have no problem picking up Atlanta or Macon, but I sometimes have to adjust the rotor to get Macon. I have more trouble when I point directly at the Macon towers. I'm about 20 miles from the Macon tv towers, probably 90 or so from Atlanta. The Macon stations have only 1 VHF digital, WMAZ, the CBS affilliate. So if you opt for an antenna, you need to get a VHF/UHF antenna and I'm sure an amplifier would do you best. 11 Alive the NBC affilliate,which is the only VHF digital in Atlanta and WUPA the UPN affilliate, are 2 stations I rarely have any trouble 24/7. The other Atlanta stations sometimes give me trouble in the daylight hours, but hardly ever after dark. The weather however can be a different story. Also, up at Sinclair, with a good deep fringe antenna, you should also be able to get the Augusta stations. I think !!!!
Anyway, the only way you're going to know for sure, is give it a try. I hope this is some help. Lots of luck.......
P.S. the Braves at home on WTBS in HD are amazing !!!

Al

Al

I live on the Northside of Thomaston and have not tried the antenna yet.
Is your deep fringe Winegard at a special height, or mounted normal height?

Thanks

BeeCee

Al

I live on the Northside of Thomaston and have not tried the antenna yet.
Is your deep fringe Winegard at a special height, or mounted normal height?

Thanks

BeeCee

BeeCee,

My antenna is about forty feet above the ground. It's the Winegard HD Platinum HD8200P VHF/UHF/FM antenna. I use a Winegard model DA-1136 (40-1000 MHz) distribution amplifier. It works really well. My problem is, I'm only getting Columbus occassionally. I guess they are at low power and I think there Dtv antennas' are about halfway up the towers at this time, not to mention they are in a deep valley on the river over there. I also have one tree that might be giving me a problem for Columbus, but I don't think so. I should be getting Columbus better than Atlanta. I do with analog. I came through your way this past Saturday. I went to a seminar in McDonough and drove through Griffin going home and detoured down 19 to Thomaston and took 74 east towards Yatesville to ride by and see the Mill that is being restored by that fellow from Byron who used to be a field reporter for ABC College Football till he was struck by lightning during a game about 10 years ago. Now that Mill is something you won't see much of anymore, unless you ride by there. I live about halfway between Roberta and Lizella about a mile off the southside of 80. Hope my antenna info is some help and the rest is of some interest.

Edit: Forgot about my rotor.
It's a Channel Master
model 9521
Complete
Antenna Rotator
model 9537
Control and Remote
Only.

You're Welcome,
Al

BeeCee,

My antenna is about forty feet above the ground. It's the Winegard HD Platinum HD8200P VHF/UHF/FM antenna. I use a Winegard model DA-1136 (40-1000 MHz) distribution amplifier. It works really well. My problem is, I'm only getting Columbus occassionally.
I guess they are at low power and I think there Dtv antennas' are about halfway up the towers at this time, not to mention they are in a deep valley on the river over there.

Al

Wow, that is some antenna setup and thanks for the input.

I am interested in WSB(ABC high Def) as my provider does not
offer.
I have the others, Fox, NBC and CBS plus ESPN HD, HDNET and
HDMovies.

I may have the same problem as you with the Columbus Stations.

Here is an analog then a digital map of WTVM in Columbus.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TV301079.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT631829.html

They obviously show a big difference in signal strength.
I have no idea when these maps were last updated.

Maybe this will help.

BeeCee

thank you for all of the information. i am not too keen on putting up a large antenna on my property, so i might just deal with the analog signal until they can start broadcasting hidef local channels over the dish network.

Can anybody see WMGT-DT (40) lately? Getting nothing at all, and just in time for NASCAR on NBC... heh... figures.

For that matter, the last couple of days, WMAZ-DT has been extremely poor.

WGNM-DT is good, WGXA-DT works pretty well (even with their weak, weak signal).

I can't get NBC anymore either. Anyone know whats going on? I just moved to Kathleen and I get CBS, ABC, UPN but I can't get fox or NBC anymore.

Kenny

I can't get NBC anymore either. Anyone know whats going on? I just moved to Kathleen and I get CBS, ABC, UPN but I can't get fox or NBC anymore.

Kenny


I live in Kathleen and I've never been able to get NBC or Fox
of course I only have an indoor anntenna. :D

Can anybody see WMGT-DT (40) lately? Getting nothing at all, and just in time for NASCAR on NBC... heh... figures.

For that matter, the last couple of days, WMAZ-DT has been extremely poor.

WGNM-DT is good, WGXA-DT works pretty well (even with their weak, weak signal).

Getting a 91-95 signal on the other side of Lizella with my amplified deep fringe pointed to Atlanta.

I am interested in WSB(ABC high Def) as my provider does not
offer.

Here is an analog then a digital map of WTVM in Columbus.

BeeCee

BeeCee,
I think you won't have any problems with WSB after dark (weather permitting). Although in the daytime you may have dropouts. But, there signal is better than it used to be and I'm not sure if they are at full power yet. They waste bandwidth with a subchannel that's gone dark. It used to be ABC World News Now, but ABC shut it down.
WTVM in Columbus has a subchannel called TUBE. It plays music video's. I hardly ever get WTVM or any other Columbus digital for that matter. I think Columbus is behind Macon with there digital efforts. I pray for "FULL POWER EVERYWHERE" !!!
Looking at those maps was interesting. I thought WTVM had there tower on Macon Rd. where there studio's and office's are. I see it's in Cusseta.

Edit: I clicked on "All current Records for WTVM" and noticed that the analog antenna is about 390 feet higher than the digital antenna. That's probably my problem. It's less than 90 feet from the ground, while there analog is at 480 feet. They probably won't raise it any till the FCC mandate to discontinue analog comes around. That may be years.

Al

It seems every time I turn to UPN 64, the programming is religious (preaching, singing, etc.) Why so much? When I lived in Tallahassee, the local UPN had the normal national programming schedule. Not complaining, just curious.

thanks,

Kenny

They are owned by a televangelist network. I suspect they are just waiting for their UPN contract to expire before going full-time religion.

They are owned by a televangelist network. I suspect they are just waiting for their UPN contract to expire before going full-time religion.

I'm not sure if they are owned by a Televangelist Network or not. They got there start on Cox Cable as a religious channel called Good News. They were owned by a local church or churches. As far as I know they still are. They eventually ventured into OTA. When they were only on Cox Cable, as Good News, they were a full-time religious channel. If they have been sold to a Televangelist Network, I'm surprized they don't have 4 or 5 separate religious program channels going at once on the digital channel. Who knows, maybe that's right around the corner. And if it is now owned by a Televangelist Network we will probably never see any HD on it. If it's still owned by local churches, they probably only have UPN to generate revenue, to help offset the cost of airing the local church venues and we still will probably never see any HD on it. Also, they don't seem to be alined with Daystar or Trinity, but it could be some other Televangelist Network. I have seen them asking for donations to help them in there attempt to go totally religious programming. So kenglish is probably right about the UPN contract.

Al

Any updates on WGXA DT?

Some of the gear has arrived. We are still waiting for some of it. The local cable company is co-operating well. We are hoping it won't be long.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV

That's outstanding news Ralph. I can hardly wait to get the NFC games in high def this season! Not to mention the world series and superbowl. Sheesh.....all of it sounds good. I'm glad the project is progressing and that you're getting good cooperation from the local cable people!

Bob

Any more news on WGXA HD transmission status?

Hey Y'all:
All the gear is in, we just have to get it all set up right. We have been working on it for two days now. More to do. The signal that is on the air is an upconverted signal and should be 720P. If not, let me know, because our receivers say it's 480P. Thank you,

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV 24

Ralph,
My Mits upconverts it to 1080i, so I can't really tell about the 720p. But, it also won't allow me to change the picture format of an HD signal or a 16:9 SD signal (which it is not allowing). So, I will assume it is some form of HD. I also noticed that you still have a separate SD channel showing up on 16.2 . For some reason my Mits won't save this channel. Probably because digital 16 was saved as 24.1 and if I numerically punch in channel 16, it goes to 24.1 . When I punch on the Guide button, it shows 16.2 (w/blank info) and 24.1 as WGXA-HD (DTV program). To get to 16.2, I have to highlight it and punch enter. This is no problem, as I won't be watching SD anyway. Just thought I would report how things are going on this end (halfway between Lizella and Roberta). Also was wondering if the Station was going to keep both HD and SD channels or eventually use just one for the most bandwidth and best picture possible. Channel 13 uses an SD channel for Doplar Radar, channel 9 in Columbus (ABC) uses an SD channel for a music channel called "TUBE". Channel 6 down in Thomasville (CBS-HD) uses an SD channel for another network (UPN). I can see you have endless possibilities, I hope the Station doesn't sacrifice (greedy $$$$) bandwidth for HD perfection. So glad you're getting this done before Football cranks up. Thanks so much too you and the others at the Station for making this happen. Now start to work on getting some 5.1 digital sound for us to enjoy. And increase the transmitter to full power. Have a nice day.

Al

Edit: Although I hate to use the bandwidth for a secondary channel, I suppose I might consider it in a situation such as sometimes at the end of a game the network (or local station) may switch to another game before this one is over and tee you off or not switch to one you was waiting for and would rather see. The way things are, you can't please everybody all the time, but with a secondary channel, you might come a little closer......

Hey Y'all:
The way I understand it works is if you have enough bandwidth you will continually have a good quality picture. If it runs short, the picture will pixellate. So, we will have to allocate enough to keep the picture from pixellating in high action scenes, and the rest is availlable for a second channel. Also they can be set up to borrow bandwidth from each other when there is some to spare. We will probably turn off the second channel for awhile until we decide what to do with it, but it exists, and when we do, it's availlable. Don't worry about 5.1, since we will be passing through the Fox signal without decoding it, the Dolby 5.1 signal will be intact without requiring action on our part. That is the beauty of the Fox splicer system. The local programming will be stereo as before, or Dolby Pro Logic (analog matrix) when the program contains that type of encoding. That's all for now.

Ralph carson
WGXA DT 24

Sounds great Ralph. Any update on when Cox will start picking up your HD feed?

That's awesome Ralph. Thanks for the update. I NFC games are going to be awesome in HD this year. I'm also curious as to when Cox will start carrying the HD FOX feed. I guess when WGXA gives Cox the final word on their signal being up and running officially? I'd call Cox but their customer service department has no clue about things. Earlier this year when I called and asked about them carrying Braves HD again this year I was told.....and I quote...."you'll know about Braves HD before we do". How does that make sense? LOL.

Bob

Hey Y'all:
We are doing the final adjustments now. Cox will be ready to go when we inform them that we are clear of the test phase. That will be a few days. Also I got a call from the system in Perry, who noticed our testing. They will pick us off the air, so they might get on a little sooner, but at the risk of interruptions. Once we are up and running with it we will be much more hesitant to interrupt the program. You won't need to bother Cox, I will inform them when to go with the HD feed. As far as the satellite guys go, I haven't heard from them so I don't know their status. The splicer tests went well today, so it should be soon.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24

Great news, I was checking out the signal this evening and it looks great. Any idea what channel number Cox will use?

Again, thanks for all the updates on your new phase.

If Cox stay with their normal numbering convention I would guess that it would be channel 702. 704,705, and 706 are all the same as 4, 5, and 6 for the SD channels. I'm looking forward to seeing WGXA up and running in HD! Thanks for all your updates Ralph.

Bob

We have made the final connections. We are testing on air tonight 8/10/05. If all goes well, we will leave it up. I do not know if any of tonight's programs are broadcast in HD. If not, they will be upconverted, but the upconversion will be done at Fox, not at WGXA. Either way, it will be suitable for a test.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT 24

Didn't get a chance to check last night, did the test go well?

Will try to look tonight.

Thanks, :)

The test went well, though I don't think we broadcast anything that was HD. I was watching on an analog set through a set top box, so I couldn't see the hi rez anyway. However, when comparing the digital signal off the air with the analog signal off the cable, the digital signal was sharper and had much less background noise. Finally I can see it at home the way it looks in the studio. I can only imagine what it looks like with a real HD set and HD signal. Y'all tell me what you think.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT24
In high definition

Is Cox carrying the HD feed now?

Bob

it looked pretty slick, giant improvement over the old transmission. I'm looking forward to real hd, particularly football.

Apparently Cox has some legal matters to square away. I hear they must give public notice before making changes. This will require 30 days. I don't know if they can get around this. Sorry. We are on the air in HD now, if you can pick us up.

Ralph Carson
WGXA

I caught part of The O.C. last night and was stunned by the picture. Excellent all around. It seemed to be HD on my set. Have not checked on Cox recently.

Wonder when they might begin to carry the signal?

Ready for football season.

I have a friend in Perry that is trying to get the OTA signal. Is the signal strong enough to reach perry ga?? He receives ABC and CBS via OTA from there. Should he be able to get fox too?

I live in Kathleen and have not been able to pick up 41-1 or 24-1 yet. I will be back in the attic this weekend fine tuning the antenna. Hopefully, I will get 24-1. I get 13-1, 58-1 and 64-1 solid.

kenny

yeah my budz is about 15 foot in the air and he claims he can't get it, but I find that strange considering on antennaweb he is only 22 miles away and FOX is looking stronger on Antennaweb than any of the others for him

Wish I could pick it up from my home... Falcons in HD is gonna be so nice for you guys...

It is my understanding that the cable system in Perry will be picking up the HD signal and retransmitting it over their system. I do not know if that retransmission will be HD real soon, but I talked to the guy and he seems enthusiastic, so I figure their engineers are doing all they can. Cox was enthusiastic as well, but they have to get the legal stuff done. I am glad y'all like the picture. It looked pretty good from my house, even on an NTSC set. The local audio was a little low, but I think I got that straightened out now. Enjoy!

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT24

P.S. Cable systems usually have tall towers and can pick up signals that an average joe couldn't. So, your guess is as good as mine as to whether you can pick us up in Perry. It's worth a shot, and I think it could be done, but I couldn't guarantee it. Good Luck!

Ralph,
I have been able to receive the Fox 720P digital signal for the last several days. The channel is a little week and subject to some reception problems during the day but the night seems to come in a little stronger. Bernie Mac on Wed. night and the OC last night were both broadcast in HD. The picture is awesome. Better yet, I am also getting Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound on the network feed. That puts you one up on the other local broadcasts. I get Dolby Digital 2.0 surround from CBS (would love to hear CSI in 5.1) and NBC. While ABC comes in Dolby 2.1 surround (ProLogic, I think).

Thanks for all your work on this. Channel 24 was late to the party, but you brought some good stuff. I was worried I would only get to see the Falcons in HD on their ESPN and ABC (Monday Night - 3 times this year) games. Now that you came through, it should be the Falcons in HD all year.

Thanks Ralph,

I don't particularly like the Falcons, but loved to watch them get beat. Now, I'll have a perfect picture of them getting there butts kicked. Although I've been able to watch them on Atlanta's Fox 5, with occassional dropouts, I shouldn't have that problem any longer.

Thanks Channel 24,

Al

Hey Y'all:
You can thank Fox and their splicer system for the 5.1 surround. Because we don't demultiplex the network signal, it carries the Dolby 5.1 signal without us doing anything. We have no Dolby encoder that does surround, but we don't need it. Fox does the encoding, and we just pass it through. By the way, I'm a surround nut and have been since the days of quadraphonic sound. So this pleases me well. Love those signal reports. Thanks everyone for your patience.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT24

Hoping the Falcons game is in HD tonight at 7:30. :)

Ahhhh my Samsung DLP doesn't have a built in HD tuner. I'll have to wait til Cox does their 30 day notification. I've waited this long, a few more weeks won't be a problem. I'm glad that ya'll are up and running in HD Ralph. I'm a surround nut too. I can hardly wait to hear Fox in 5.1 on my system. My Denon decodes (from Cox) all the other networks in Pro Logic, not Dolby Digital. My only Dolby Digital channels are INHD1 and 2, Universal HD, Discovery HD, and Braves HD. I'd sure like to hear the other networks in 5.1. Thanks again Ralph for your updates here.

Bob

So just for a good laugh I called Cox and asked about when they'll pick up the HD feed from WGXA. Their answer, as expected, "we have no idea when that will happen". If they don't, who does? LOL

Bob

p.s. It's always so nice to talk to well informed people at Cox!!

Yeah, the wonderful people at Cox are typically not too well informed. Even when they have the channel up and running (that is when), the people who answer the phones probably won't be aware of it.

And about surround sound...Encore on channel 300 (Cox digital/HD) comes in 5.1 sound. The other Encore don't. Also, I've been picking up Starz! with no audio. Just a nice picture to look at without sound. Anyone else getting this?

I'll have to look at channel 300. Not sure that I've tuned it in before. I don't get Starz! so I have no clue about the sound. Have you noticed that the HD channels on Cox have lower audio than the SD channels? It's a fairly significant difference in audio levels too. I have to adjust the volume a LOT when I go from one to the other. It wasn't that pronounced until a couple of months ago. There was always a difference in levels, just not to the degree that it is now. I did get a reply to an email I sent to Cox about WGXA. It basically didn't even give a ballpark timeframe for when they'd carry the feed. It just said that they would be carrying the HD feed. I wish someone from Cox would get on these boards and read some of the comments made about them here. Maybe it would open their eyes a little....then again maybe it wouldn't!

Bob

Encore 300 also shows up in 5.1 if the movie is broadcast that way. Interesting to note that movies with 5.1 on Encore never sound that way if they are repeated on Mystery, Western, etc. Sometimes I have noticed 5.1 on Flix or IFC, but those instances are rare. Universal HD only shows Battlestar Galactica repeats with 5.1, I think. I have never seen to much else on them with the 5.1.

I wish the other local networks would pass a 5.1 signal if possible.

I would also like to see TNT in HD, have noticed that graphic when watching some of their programming (The Closer, Wanted, etc).

At least I can get the locals OTA. :D

Hey Y'all:
I wouldn't knock Cox too much. They have already supplied a fiber transmitter to transmit the HD signal to them. They just have to do things by the book since they're such a large company. Their technical staff have worked with us without hesitation. On this and on other technical issues. I have no complaint with them. On the other hand, now the ball's in their court.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

By the way, in defense of Cox, I believe they do as we do and just pass the signal through undemodulated, so they may not have any control of the HD audio level. It's set before we get it, and all we can do is match the local level to network. There might be a way to adjust it on the splicer, but I haven't really studied that box yet. At any rate, it's probably out of their hands.

I don't think it's Cox in general, just some of the people that work customer support on the phones. They don't seem to be in the loop.

On Starz!, I didn't sign up for it, the channel has just been coming in...but without audio. Now, if I paid for it and didn't get sound, I'd be highly upset.

TNT in HD would be nice. So would the WB. They have some shows that would be nice. About the audio, I guess the only upsetting thing is when you see your show display broadcast in 5.1 but you can't receive it in 5.1.

When i activated my new cox account, i was told by the guy in the expo at the pionono kroger that they expected to have 30 new hd channels at the end of this year/beginning of next. I was obviously shocked by the statement and asked if i heard him correctly. This was just two weeks ago, and i can't imagine it will actually be completely true. But if they are looking at adding any channels much less 30, it would be sweet.

I did ask if the pricing structure would remain the same, and he said he expected that it would...by this point i was skeptical of everything he said, but he was knowledgable about fox being added, and he gave me a free modem.

Bonus points for anyone who can name 30 potential hd channels, even if you include the ones we have already and premiums 30 would be a lofty goal.

1. CBS
2. Abc
3. nbc
4. upn
5. wb
6. espn
7. espn2
8. tnt
9. bravo
10. hdnet
11. hdnet movies
12. inhd
13. inhd max
14. discovery
15. hbo
16. starz
17. cinemax
18. showtime
19. braves hd

You left out The Movie Channel HD, Outdoor Channel HD, TOC HD 2, Universal HD and then there are the Voom 10 Channels (but, I more than seriously doubt them). And maybe Starz is ready to put Encore HD back on. It was the best HD movie service, before it went dark. And there is also a Spice HD Channel as well as Playboy HD Channel. They could possibly put the PBS HD channel on, don't know if that would conflict with GPT or not.

Would like to have FX, USA, SCI FI if they have HD feeds. The WB would also be a nice addition. Isn't there a Fox movie channel?

Are any of these HD broadcasts?

I wasn't slamming the technical people at Cox by any means. I have great respect for them ever since they offered high speed internet service. They have definitely done high speed internet the way it should be done. It's rarely down and it's always blazing fast. You can tell they put a lot of forethought into building their network. My frustration with Cox comes from the completely uninformed people they put on their phones. When customer support tells me on the phone that she has no clue about Braves HD, or whether they'll be carrying it, and then two days later it's on......that's poor communication within the company. One would think they would keep their customer service people up to date with information. I can't honestly imagine them having 30 HD channels by years end. Like it's been said here in an earlier post....I don't know of 30 HD channels even available to the public. Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome. I'm completely hooked on HD. I have a hard time watching TV these days unless it's in HD. Call me spoiled.....I don't care!! heh heh.

Bob

Would like to have FX, USA, SCI FI if they have HD feeds. The WB would also be a nice addition. Isn't there a Fox movie channel?

Are any of these HD broadcasts?

Yes, the WB network has several shows in HD. Such as One Tree Hill, Everwood, Smallville, Summerland, What I Like About You, Reba, Living with Fran and Gilmore Girls. Which I think is over half of there shows. I also expect them to add even more HD to there fall line-up.

Al

Hey Y'all:
Cox cable has informed us that they are shooting for August 23 for their upgrade to hi def for WGXA's signal. They will be on ch 702, but I suspect their boxes will map it to ch 2. So, look for it. I believe that they do not demodulate the mpeg stream, so the 5.1 surround should be intact. Enjoy your Hi def!

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Ralph,

Thanks for the update that's great news....the Falcons will be on Fox in HD on the 25th.....that'll work out great! They will probably be on 702, all the other HD network feeds are in the 700's. NBC, CBS and ABC are 4, 5, and 6 for the SD feed and 704, 705, 706 for the HD feeds. I'm guessing Fox will be SD on 2 and HD on 702. It's kinda cool being able to switch back and forth during an HD program to show someone without HD what the difference looks like. Everyone I've shown it to has been absolutely amazed! Being in 5.1 will be great too!

Bob

^What he said.

Thanks for the info Ralph.

The New Orleans vs. New England game tonight looks stunning. DD 5.1 sound. Good stuff. :)

Ralph,
The game last night was great in every respect. Ya'll did a great job. Now tell your boss to give you all a good raise and a bonus to match.

Al

Edit: Be sure and tell him Voomvoom said sooo......

Got to check out 24 this evening, the picure was great and the sound was impressive. Thanks Ralph and all of the 24 Staff for bringing Hi-Def FOX to Middle Georgia. The signal was on Cox 702, great 5.1 sound(wish the other locals could send the 5.1 sound thru). May be watching more of FOX this year.

Thanks again.

Doug

I tuned in "House" last night on Fox as well. The picture was awesome and the 5.1 came thru as well. Did anyone else have the Fox logo in the bottom right of their screen.....only most of it was out of the viewing area? Mine looked like it said "FO". I can hardly wait for the NFC preseason game that'll be on this Friday night! Thanks for all your hard work Ralph!

Bob

Most HD sets have adjustments horizontal width. If the logo isn't fully on the screen, your picture is being stretched and cropped. Reduce the scan width so that all of the picture is on the screen. A stretched and cropped picture will make people in the picture seem fatter than they are, and you will not see things near the edge of the picture. Generally to do that you would adjust down until you see black borders on either side of the picture, then increase to fill the screen. Note that when we are transmitting upconverted NTSC, we have a gray border on either side. You are supposed to see these. we chose gray rather than black to hopefully prevent or reduce border burn in on viewer's sets. Some early models had problems with this. However, these adjustments are best made when viewing HD programming, and the program fills the complete screen. Thank you,

Ralph Carson
A.C.E.
WGXA DT

Incidently, I know someone who will go un-named who bought what he thought was an HDTV television. It has a CRT with a wide aspect ratio, and it looks like an HD set. However, it would not scan at any rate higher than 480P when connected to a set top box. He said it was advertised as an HD ready set, but the box had no mention of it being HD. So if you're thinking about buying an HD set, make sure it says "high definition" and it bears the HDTV logo.

Ralph Carson
WGXA-DT

I tuned in "House" last night on Fox as well. The picture was awesome and the 5.1 came thru as well. Did anyone else have the Fox logo in the bottom right of their screen.....only most of it was out of the viewing area? Mine looked like it said "FO". I can hardly wait for the NFC preseason game that'll be on this Friday night! Thanks for all your hard work Ralph!

Bob
The Fox logo is cut off on my screen as well, otherwise the picture looks fine. My picture is NOT cropped or stretched. Every other channel is fine for me, so I have a feeling it's Fox and not my set. I'm not complaining though, I hate the logos. :)

About FOX, I was picking it up in 720p on COX, and the logo was not an issue either. I used twin view to look at the NTSC channel (2) to see if it was just Zooming in and then cropping the edge, but the channels looked the same vertically. Also, it was not stretched. So, I don't think that it's a stretching or cropping issue, just not placing the logo completely in the screen.

Also, for those with Cox...still haven't found anyone else picking up the Starz! picture with no audio. Again, I didn't sign up for it, it's just coming in without audio.

I'll look into it.

Ralph Carson

Thanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one with that anomaly with the Fox logo. I have a 56" Samsung DLP. I don't have anything zoomed or stretched. I get the normal bars on the side when it's SD programming in 4:3. I don't have anything like it when I'm on CBS, ABC or NBC HD. Their logos are all intact at the lower corner of the screen. Like I said, it's no issue as long as I'm seeing the programming. I just thought you'd like to know that the logo was partially offscreen. Thanks for looking into it Ralph!

Ralph,
I checked out the LOGO issue a minute ago (Thursday Night during the movie). I compared Fox5 out of Atlanta with Fox24 and discovered that the pictures are identical. The problem is with the LOGO itself. Channel 5's "FOX" Logo is small and in the same corner as 24's, but you can see the entire Logo (as in, read the word "FOX"). Channel 24's "FOX" Logo is HUGE and you can see only a portion of it. The upper half of the letters "F" and "O". You can't see any part of the letter "X", and the color is BLUE, while channel 5's color is a Whitish Gray.

Al

As stated above, glad I'm not the only one seeing this. Voomvoom has accurately described what I am seeing on my tv.

I am glad to see many of you enjoying WGXA FOX in HD. I for one cannot get that signal strength over 16 to 20 % and thus no FOX HD for me. It is very sad because I get WMAZ 13.1 and WPGA 58.1 in HD just fine with signal strength of around 80%. Here is a doozie - many nights I also get WSB(2-1) and WXIA(11-1) FROM ATLANTA in HD!!!! How crazy is that!

I live in NW Macon and 16.5 miles from all three towers. I use an outdoor Winegard GS-2000 (a.k.a Sensar 2000) amplified antenna. My HD reciever is DirecTV HDTiVO DVR.

Does anyone have any suggestions or should I just write it off as low power from WGXA?

We don't have a lot of punch in our signal, but you should be able to pick us up at 16 miles. If you are behind a hill, that could take out your signal. Either go cable or get your antenna higher. Other things that could block the signal are large buildings or thick foliage. However, I am getting a good signal in Byron, and my antenna is six feet off the ground among plenty of trees. But I am also on a hilltop. It really depends on the terrain and your ability to get above it. Good luck. I doubt we will get a power increase untill we get a new transmitter. When that happens, it will be full power. Until then, some folks will have to do a little work to get the signal. When you do, the reward is worth it. I was looking at a football game the other day. The detail was amazing, even viewed on my NTSC set. It was clearly superior to analog transmission. I could imagine what it looks like on an HDTV set. There are mapping programs that have terrain features that can help you identify a terrain problem. We use Topo USA by Delorme. Our antenna is about 500 feet off the ground. we usually print the chart out, and draw a line from the transmitter to the receive site. If there is a hill between, you can easily figure out how high you have to go to clear it. If it is impractical to go that high, then the choice is to go cable.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Ralph,

I maybe in a good position to test this incomplete logo issue based on my HD setups.

Using three identical Cox HD DVR boxes and three different HD sets (50 Plasma, 30 LCD, and 32 CRT) your "FOX" logo is reduced to "FO" on 4x3 programming on every set. I am familiar with scaling (the Plasma and LCD are 1365/1366x768 native, the CRT is 1080i) but even in "native" mode and set for 720p, the logo is not complete.

Not that this is a huge problem since the pictures look great, but just FYI.

If it is impractical to go that high, then the choice is to go cable. Since this has been brought up, I have a question about Cox's HD service. Their website says that that an HDTV set is required for their service. But I know for a fact that the stock DCT6200 receiver can be configured to output 480i over the component output. I know this because my parents received one (from a cable company in another state) that was misconfigured this way until I got my hands on it. Is anyone here using the Cox service with a standard NTSC TV? And if so, does it work as one would expect? I love my downconverted HD stations from Dish and might consider Cox for local channels if this were possible.

Also, I was surprised (in a good way) to see on their website that you can get local digital stations with only the limited basic ($12) package. Of course, we all know that the website is not always representative of reality. Is anyone here getting these channels while subscribing to only the minimum package? And are the analog cable channels still as horrible as they used to be? In the past, anything below around channel 30 was practically unwatchable by my standards (which was my main reason behind going to the satellite/antenna combo in the first place).

I wish it wasn't necessary for me to even think about getting cable again. But I can't get anything but WMAZ-DT reliably on my moderately large outdoor antenna, at a distance of 12 miles. I guess it's a combination of low power stations and too many trees behind my house.

Bob

We don't have a lot of punch in our signal, but you should be able to pick us up at 16 miles. If you are behind a hill, that could take out your signal. Either go cable or get your antenna higher. Other things that could block the signal are large buildings or thick foliage. However, I am getting a good signal in Byron, and my antenna is six feet off the ground among plenty of trees. But I am also on a hilltop. It really depends on the terrain and your ability to get above it. Good luck. I doubt we will get a power increase untill we get a new transmitter. When that happens, it will be full power. Until then, some folks will have to do a little work to get the signal. When you do, the reward is worth it. I was looking at a football game the other day. The detail was amazing, even viewed on my NTSC set. It was clearly superior to analog transmission. I could imagine what it looks like on an HDTV set. There are mapping programs that have terrain features that can help you identify a terrain problem. We use Topo USA by Delorme. Our antenna is about 500 feet off the ground. we usually print the chart out, and draw a line from the transmitter to the receive site. If there is a hill between, you can easily figure out how high you have to go to clear it. If it is impractical to go that high, then the choice is to go cable.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

I am on a hill and my antenna is 20 feet off the ground. It is unimaginable for me to conclude that trees, foliage, house across the street etc. would be selectively obstructing WGXA signal while letting through WPGA, WMAZ and some ATLANTA HD channels . It has to be the sorry low power signal from WGXA.

I am on a hill and my antenna is 20 feet off the ground. It is unimaginable for me to conclude that trees, foliage, house across the street etc. would be selectively obstructing WGXA signal while letting through WPGA, WMAZ and some ATLANTA HD channels . It has to be the sorry low power signal from WGXA.
shahm,
Have you tried pointing your antenna in another direction. I have a high powered Winegard deepfringe with amplifier and if I point it directly at the towers, I have trouble. Maybe you can turn it a little and make enough difference to get 24. How about 64, can you get it. I know it's not HD, but it's digital. And also 41 is out there. You should be getting 5 stations in Macon. 4 of which are HD.

Al

Edit: You might also try to disconnect your power supply to your antenna and see if that will help. If it's supplied by your D* receiver, maybe a DC block would work.

You might also want to try a different antenna.

Being in NW Macon, you are looking through a couple of LPTV stations in the UHF band. With an amplified antenna, you may be getting a bit of overload distortion, caused by the nearby transmitters (TV, cellular, 2-way, etc). This distortion may not be enough to cause problems with the higher powered signals, but could "mask" the lower powered ones.

Something with a bit of gain, like a UHF Yagi (even the ones on a VHF-UHF combo), or a "Bow-ties in front of a reflector" type might be better. Amplified antennas are very "iffy", due to the possible interference sources.

Considering that there is no profit in HDTV at this time and won't be for some time, I think WGXA is doing pretty good to be getting a Hi def signal out on the air. There is enough power to hit cable headends and potentially get the signal to quite a few viewers. A high powered transmitter is an expensive investment and it costs a lot just to run it. Yes, we want that 30 kilowatt transmitter and high gain antenna on top of the tower as bad as you do. And when the time comes, we will have it. But for now, this will have to do. I, for one, am grateful for what we got. The rest is up to the general public, and their acceptance of HDTV. There is much potential in this, if people will buy HD sets, improvements can be made. There are many parts of the country still where there is no HD service no matter what kind of antenna you have.

By the way, in the days before cable, it was not uncommon for antennas to be on telescoped masts of up to 50 feet. We did what we had to do to get the signal. In Tifton, where I was raised, that got you two stations, and one of them (WCTV) was fairly fuzzy. You might have to work a little harder.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Does anyone know when Cox will be putting out WB in HD? Really enjoy the addition of FOX! Also, all the tennis these past two weeks in HD was great. Can't beat that and the football!

Yes, I believe that sports, more than anything else will be the catalyst for HDTV. Sports fans "get it" more than anyone else. It will be good for televised concerts, with the Dolby surround sound, but there aren't very many of those. Sports will carry it.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Sports was the first thing that popped out for me when I was setting up my TV. Caught the women's fast pitch underhanded softball on ESPN HD and was just so totally taken in by the clarity and colors. Couldn't stop watching. :D

By the way, in the days before cable, it was not uncommon for antennas to be on telescoped masts of up to 50 feet. We did what we had to do to get the signal. In Tifton, where I was raised, that got you two stations, and one of them (WCTV) was fairly fuzzy. You might have to work a little harder.

Interestingly enough, WCTV-DT recently upgraded their digital signal and I can now get higher signal strength from WCTV-DT (80s-90s) who broadcasts their digital signal from a tower 73 miles away from me than I do the stations (WALB-DT, 70s-80s, WFXL-DT, 70s-80s) in my own DMA (Albany, GA, DMA #147).

~Alan

HMMM That's interesting. WCTV DT may have a high power transmitter, where WALB DT might have a low power one. Of course, I don't know what's coming out of Doerun or Thomasville ( I don't know exactly where WCTV's transmitter is actually located. We could always pick up WALB analog very clearly in Tifton.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

HMMM That's interesting. WCTV DT may have a high power transmitter, where WALB DT might have a low power one. Of course, I don't know what's coming out of Doerun or Thomasville ( I don't know exactly where WCTV's transmitter is actually located. We could always pick up WALB analog very clearly in Tifton.

WALB-DT is currently transmitting from a tower in Albany (as is WFXL-DT, the FOX affiliate in the Albany, GA DMA), about 7-8 miles away from me, WSST-DT (which I'm sure quite a few Macon folks know) is quite a bit further away from me, and I can get a signal not too much lower than WALB-DT or WFXL-DT... but then, you are correct in that WALB-DT and WFXL-DT are both operating at low power.

WCTV-DT, is currently transmitting from the same location (or right next door) as their analog tower (near the Florida border, Metcalf, I believe), but just a few weeks ago (last week of August) started broadcasting at 1,000,000 watts... before then, I could receive their signal most nights during the Spring/Summer months, but couldn't receive them during the day (and couldn't receive them many nights during the Fall/Winter nights).

BTW, in case anyone was wondering why someone in the Albany, GA DMA is reading the Macon, GA DMA thread, I can sometimes pick up a few Macon stations via antenna. WPGA-DT, WMGT-DT, and WGNM-DT.

~Alan

Interesting! Did WALB DT locate their antenna on the STL tower, or did they build a transmitter site separate from Doerun? I suspect they put it on the STL tower to save money. As I recall, they have a pretty big STL tower, so that would work well.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Interesting! Did WALB DT locate their antenna on the STL tower, or did they build a transmitter site separate from Doerun? I suspect they put it on the STL tower to save money. As I recall, they have a pretty big STL tower, so that would work well.

I'm not really sure what STL means, but I believe they put their antenna on their tower at the station (which I'm assuming is called STL!). They had a picture in a local newspaper which showed them installing the antenna, but you couldn't tell where the tower was (only that it looked like the one by their station). I'm honestly can't say much about WALB-DT though since I wrote them once (via E-Mail) to ask questions about their digital signal, and they never wrote me back. I know someone who also E-Mailed them, and didn't receive a reply, so he called them to ask questions, and they blew him off!! Shame too, since I just got an HD-TiVo, and I'd really like to talk to them and tell them to send program information in so I can record their SD programming (Scrubs, etc) and watch it on my bedroom TV (also connected to the HD-TiVo).

WFXL-DT, the FOX affiliate here, has been a lot better. The man that I mentioned that contacted WALB-DT, also contacted WFXL-DT, and evidently got to be pretty good friends with their Engineer. I knew that they were broadcasting at VERY low power and at a low altitude due to something about their antenna being too heavy for their temporary tower... which is why I was surprised to find out that I got a better signal from WFXL-DT than WALB-DT (and why I was surprised to even pick up them in the first place). Later I contacted WFXL-DT's Engineer myself (asking questions about the Splicer) only to receive no reply. I then wrote the General Manager, and was able to get answers (including the fact that they are broadcasting their digital signal off of MediaCom's (the local Cable Company's) tower). Since that time, however, I've managed to write the Engineer, and later the Program Director (when they started multi-casting "The Tube) with no problem getting a reply.

Of course, with WALB-DT being owned by Liberty Corp., and RayCom Media owning WFXL-DT, and the two companies merging, I'm interested in finding out how that's going to work out.

~Alan

STL stands for Studio to transmitter link, and refers to the microwave radio gear that is used to transmit the air signal to the transmitter facility for broadcast. The STL transmitter is usually connected to a very high gain dish similar to a sattelite dish, but aimed parallel to the ground. The receive dish is usually similar, but has a receiver connected. We actually transmit both ways using the same dishes, as we have satellite dishes at the transmitter site.

Sorry about the jargon, I sometimes forget.

I don't understand the lack of response from WALB, it could be that they are prohibited by management to discuss technical matters concerning the plant. Most engineers I know are glad to talk about it.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Does anyone here know if or when WMAZ, WPGA or WMGT will begin sending out a 5.1 signal? The 5.1 from FOX is very nice. I get my channels from COX and send the sound through my receiver. It would be nice to experience NCIS with 5.1.

Just asking if anyone here knows anything.

Thanks.

The reason we have 5.1 is because we do not demodulate the ASI (Mpeg) data stream from the network receiver. We send it through the Fox splicer switch and then straight to the transmitter. The other stations demodulate the signal and then run it through a digital switcher. it then has to be re-encoded, and the audio has to be re-encoded separately. Most of the earlier Mpeg encoders only have encoding capability only for Dolby stereo. It requires the purchase of a separate Dolby 5.1 encoder. Also, I don't know if the switchers are designed to handle 5.1 without upgrade. And of course any audio processing would also have to be 5.1 capable. That is the beauty of the Fox splicer system, it avoids all that and gives you 5.1 without the extra expense. Of course the Fox system isn't as flexible, but for now and until it comes time to do local HD, it is a better system, simply because it delivers. That's why, what I cannot answer is: When will they do the upgrades necessary for their type of system to work with 5.1? Until then, watch us!

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Until then, watch us!

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

I try to but I do like some shows on the other networks. :D

I'm sure you understand. :)

Thanks for the explanation. I wish the others would follow your lead.

Doug

Yeah, I know. I certainly don't limit my TV viewing to Fox 24 so I certainly wouldn't expect you to do it. But then it's our job to provide programming that holds your interest. And if you can hear it in surround, all the better. I have been a surround fan since quadraphonic sound, especially for music. But I like surround for TV as well. So it pleases me that we are able to provide it for y'all. I believe it will be to the benefit of broadcasting in general when all TV stations have HD and surround. However, until then, I don't mind that we have one upped the competition.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

okay, I'll be visiting relatives for turkey day, and will likely be at my mother's house on Saturday.
She has a big HDTV that I'd like to see the game on.
How well does WPGA's digital signal do in Forsyth? And more importantly, will they be showing the game in HD?
Will a zenith silver sensor pull it in? Or will I have to convince her to put up an outside antenna?

There isn't a lot of traffic on this forum anymore. Otherwise I would have checked in a more timely fashion. You should be able to receive all of the Macon stations in Forsyth, but by the time you read this, you should be better able to answer the question than I. The FCC has set the date for analog cutoff for 2009. I expect that all of these stations will be high powered by then. However, there is no news to report on that front at this time. I suspect that is why the forum is no longer busy. There is not much to talk about.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Ralph Carson,

I just received my HD receiver from ComSouth and noticed that channel 24 (Fox)only comes through in SD. I sent ComSouth an E-mail to ask when they would broadcast your HD signal. They replied that they were linked to 24's HD signal. Am I missing something, or is the FOX HD programming more limited than I realized?

Thanks

fanchman,
Both Fox shows on tonight (Thursday), the O.C. and Reunion, are usually in HD. So you should check it out. I don't know anything about Comsouth, but I get these OTA (over the air) just fine. Although Fox is not my favorite network for programming. At the present they have the best Audio and absolutely no problems switching from HD programming to SD commercials and back to HD programming. Unlike the other locals do. I'm sure Ralph will chime in sooner or later. As he said, this forum is not to active at the present time.

Al

Hey Fanchman:
We broadcast in 720P any time the Fox network transmits an HD signal to us. We just pass through what they send us. They transmit to us in 720P. We also send a feed to Cox cable by fiber optic for both our analog feed and the digital and once again, the digital feed is 720P. When we are transmitting a local show on our digital system, it is upconverted NTSC, upconverted to 720P. If you are not getting 720P, then the bottleneck is with your sattellite company. They pick us up off the air, (all of them do at this time) and while they may be receiving our digital signal, they could be downgrading it in order to fit it within their bandwidth requirements. If this is so, we do not necessarily approve of this, and we encourage them to upgrade. And I suspect that at some point they will. This thing is starting to take off, and the pressure will mount. It is important to let them know what you think.

Also, make sure that the sattellite receiver you have is HD capable, and that the connection from your TV set to it is the proper HD connection. This is all a little more technical than it used to be, so attention to detail is important. If you cannot get HD through your sattellite box, or the service does not supply it, you could always try and pick it up off the air. You will need an A-B switch if your TV doesn't have two antenna inputs. Many folks will use the audio-video connections for the sattellite receiver, and use the antenna input for off the air. Some of the sattellite companies have plans to include an ATSC tuner in their receivers, so this can be more easily done.

If you are close enough to pick up our signal, and you have enough signal to demodulate, you will get a crystal clear picture, rich in detail, a noticeable improvement, even if you are watching it on an NTSC set. An HD set will be even better. I took a set top box home and connected it to my NTSC set, and it looked signifigantly better than our NTSC signal on cable. I was receiving the digital signal off the air. Also, don't forget surround sound, because we are transmitting it when Fox transmits it to us.
Thank you.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24, WGXA DT24

I checked some more shows on FOX, like Bernie Mac, and the HD is coming through. I must have checked the wrong shows before. Thanks for your help.

In my latest Cox bill, there was a new channel list showing that TNTHD would be offered begining 12-13-05. Excited about that as some of their shows are braodcast in hi-def. The Closer and Wanted quickly spring to mind. Will be curious to see how they treat movies.

In my latest Cox bill, there was a new channel list showing that TNTHD would be offered begining 12-13-05. Excited about that as some of their shows are braodcast in hi-def. The Closer and Wanted quickly spring to mind. Will be curious to see how they treat movies.
All of there shows are in HD. Only most of them are upconverted and stretched. But, it's the older programming that's done that way. The newer stuff, like the 2 you mentioned are genuine HD programs. And there sports are also genuine HD.

Al

Don't know what the stretching will look like, but it sounds horrible. Guess I will find out on the 13th.

Don't know what the stretching will look like, but it sounds horrible. Guess I will find out on the 13th.
By stretching, I mean, they take a 4:3 aspect ratio picture and stretch it into a 16:9 aspect ratio picture. Whether or not it's bad depends on the person watching. It makes people wider, which I don't care for. But, the picture will be a better, clearer, crisper picture, just fatter. When ESPN HD first started, they did this, now they keep the correct aspect ratio and put side bars on 4:3 pictures. I would rather see TNT HD put the side bars on and keep the correct aspect ratio, but some people don't like the side bars. So, I guess they'll never please everybody.

Al

We decided to go with sidebars. It's technically accurate, and when watching on a set top box and NTSC set, it looks normal. If the program is stretched, you get a cropped picture with fat people. The only drawback with sidebars is possible burn in on older CRT HD sets and to reduce the possibility of that, we make the bars grey instead of black. It is my understanding that that problem has been resolved by the set manufacturers.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

Well, if the show was originally done 16:9; like later seasons of Angel, NYPD Blue, ER, and Law&Order, why not use those masters instead of stretching.

I looked at a few minutes of Angel this morning, a season 5 ep which was shot 16:9 and Angel's face was very "fat" and it did not look right. I just wonder why they don't broadcast 16:9 the way the show originally was. Oh well, hope Wanted is shown correctly.

Bravo to you and WGXA, Ralph! I agree wholeheartedly with your philosophy. While I can't receive you guys down here in Vidalia, I do get WTOC and WSAV out of Savannah. Both of them do the most ridiculous thing with their 4:3 content-- they upconvert it to 14:9. Yuk! It pushes parts of the picture in the vertical plane off the viewable area. For example, usually the phone number and/or address of businesses in their local commericals are not visible. You can just barely see the top of the letters. Bet their local advertisers don't realize that! I know it's not my TV this time because I have a digital rear-projection LCD that shows the test patterns on Avia just perfect with no cropping or overscan.

Thank goodness I'm still getting network HD from DirecTV via the Distant Networks package. The signals from the New York affiliates look great.

:) I like to say Hi to everyone in the Macon, Ga. area. I live down here in Hawkinsville off of Hwy 341, about a mile from Houston county line.

I recently bought a new hdtv samsung and love it. Dishnetwork is my sat provdier but they will not let me upgrade to HD receiver unless I pay them about 800.00 for the 942 receiver. So I thought I hook up my OTA antenna and bring in my HD locals. I can get station 13.1 perfect, I cannot get any other station 24, 41, 58 are real snowy. My TV will display weak or no signal. My antenna is on a pole about 25 ft in the air and on a rotor. About 30 ft behind my antenna is a pine forrest the trees are 40 to 50 tall, are they blocking my signal.

I have ordered the channel master cm 4228 uhf antenna, 8 bay, a cm 7775 pre amp and a 20 db indoor amp. Does anyone think this will help or did I waste my money.

Thanks for any input.

dwinters

At around 30 miles you are about at the limit for line-of-sight at UHF frequencies....that makes it a bit iffy. I would try the antenna, and try it, first, without any amplifiers.
If you haven't already done so, get the best RG-6/U Quad-shielded cable and connectors you can find (check with a good electronics wholesaler, not a mall store) and some weatherproofing coax sealant. The cabling is, at least, as important as any amplifiers.

If, after you have it all put together, you still don't get reliable reception of the UHF DTV stations, you could try the preamp. If it makes the analog channels look funny, with lines or floating bars and images, the preamp is overloaded (by too much antenna), or the combo of antenna and preamp is overdriving the tuner.

I wouldn't bother with the indoor amp, but you could try it without the preamp. Both, together, would most likely be a disaster.

:) I like to say Hi to everyone in the Macon, Ga. area. I live down here in Hawkinsville off of Hwy 341, about a mile from Houston county line.

I recently bought a new hdtv samsung and love it. Dishnetwork is my sat provdier but they will not let me upgrade to HD receiver unless I pay them about 800.00 for the 942 receiver. So I thought I hook up my OTA antenna and bring in my HD locals. I can get station 13.1 perfect, I cannot get any other station 24, 41, 58 are real snowy. My TV will display weak or no signal. My antenna is on a pole about 25 ft in the air and on a rotor. About 30 ft behind my antenna is a pine forrest the trees are 40 to 50 tall, are they blocking my signal.

I have ordered the channel master cm 4228 uhf antenna, 8 bay, a cm 7775 pre amp and a 20 db indoor amp. Does anyone think this will help or did I waste my money.

Thanks for any input.

dwinters

hello dwinters,
I don't know if I can help or not, but I'll give it a shot. Everything kenglish said in the previous post is pretty much on target. It's my understanding that the 4228 is an excellent antenna. But, as you noted, it's UHF and not VHF. Channel 13 that you are receiving, will probably not be received with the 4228. So, you may need to keep your current antenna and use it along with your new 4228. Also, I'm not sure how you tune ATSC channels on the Samsung. But, the VHF channel for 13 is on channel 4 DT, the UHF channel for 24 is on channel 16 DT, the UHF channel for 41 is on channel 40 DT, the UHF channel for 58 is on channel 32 DT, and the UHF channel for 64 is on channel 45 DT. Please note that channel 64/45DT is only SD at this time and with there money resources, it ain't likely to ever be HD. But, at least it is digital. If your antenna has a rotor, I would suggest you try and move it one way or the other to see if it will pick up the channels. I say this because, sometimes when I point my antenna straight at the towers, some of the channels may not come in, and I have to move my antenna away from the towers to get a signal to come in. I have a deepfringe Winegard VHF/UHF/FM w/amp and I'm at 20 miles out from the towers, past Lizella towards Roberta. My amplifier is probably why it's hard for me to point straight at the towers for good reception. Don't know if any of this will be any help to you, but good luck.

Al

Hey WMAZ,
Where's your Doppler Radar? I miss it. Will it be returning anytime soon? Are you planning something else? What gives?

Al

I read on the Atlanta forum, that WXIA, which is another Gannet station, is advertizing on there morning show, "Another 11 Alive First, 11 Alive News soon to be HD. An Atlanta First."
Are there any plans for WMAZ 13 Eyewitness News to become HD?

Al

When i lived in WR, I used a simialr setup (antenna, preamp, amp) to get the macon locals. With the radio shack medium range antenna I was able to reliably receive all the macon locals.

In hawkinsville, you'll be about twice as far away, but I suspect you should at least be able to get ABC 58 in addition to WMAZ. The others may be more difficult.

Hi Ya'll,
My grandparents live in ocilla and they just recently purchased a new HD set. they are direct tv subscribers. I am going to be down there over christmas and i want to try to get their system optimized; can anyone give me any idea which of the "local" networks they should be able to get with a good ota antenna, and what their digital stations numbers are and their compass location? I went to antennaweb, and it doesn't show any available. also, if they won't be able to get any ota, do any of you have experience with getting waivers for getting those via directtv? any info you can give will be greatly appreciated. (btw, i live in statesboro and get cbs and nbc ota, but no luck with fox or abc).

Do you know if anyone there gets any OTA signals right now? Looks like they are a long ways away from most major cities....do they get any UHF stations? Sometimes VHF is possible at those distances, but I'm not so sure about UHF.

I'm going by what I remember from Macon TV reception in the 60's and 70's....everybody had VHF antennas on rotors.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OUR HI DEF AND ANALOG VIEWERS!

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24, WGXA DT

Thanks for the wishes and thoughts, Merry Christmas to you too.

I appreciate your willingness to answer our questions all through the year.

Doug Wallen

And Merry Christmas to you analog users also. Thanks Ralph for all your help and patience through the year. And so glad you were willing to put up with us "not so patient HD enthusiast". Hoping all stations get up to full power on their digital performance and get any bugs worked out they may already have or may encounter. And May God Bless America Once Again!!!!!

Al

Merry Christmas to everyone!! :)

Thanks for everyone's input. I received the 4228 on Wed. and put it up on xmas-eve.
I was able to bring in 58-1. I used the pre amp with it Someday I am going to try and get it higher but with 13.1 and 58.1 I can live with it. I can now watch the Sugar bowl in Hi-def.

Merry Xmas

Dwinters

Happy New Year to all of our viewers!

Ralph Carson
WGXA 24 DT

I found this on hdtvprimer website. What's your take? Have you heard this?

"When will DTV stations go to full power?

Some stations have started DTV transmissions using a low power transmitter. FCC rules require these stations to have a full-power DTV station by the end of 2006 that has the same reception radius as their analog station. (Stations that don’t comply risk de-licensing.)"

Dear Woodduckhunter:
That was the case for awhile. But I think they moved the date to 2009. I will check on that for you. It is true that many stations, including WGXA, began DTV transmissions at low power. It was recognized by the government that DTV transmissions would not be profitable for awhile, and they allowed low power transmissions in order to seed DTV without undue stress on the finances of TV stations. (you should see the power bill for our analog transmitter) This is considerable of them since they just stuck us with a next to impossible closed caption requirement that will be rather expensive to implement. However, that will get done, and when the time comes, we will upgrade power. Some stations might upgrade earlier, but since it will be a bottom line decision for most, I suspect there will be a mad rush as the deadline approaches. Of course, if the public starts buying HD sets in mass quantities that could speed things up a bit. It is my understanding that sales are starting to pick up. It will be driven by price and HD sets are coming down more and more. So we will see how it goes. At this point, I have little doubt about public acceptance of the technology, people who see it, love it.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

I found this on hdtvprimer website. What's your take? Have you heard this?

"When will DTV stations go to full power?

Some stations have started DTV transmissions using a low power transmitter. FCC rules require these stations to have a full-power DTV station by the end of 2006 that has the same reception radius as their analog station. (Stations that don’t comply risk de-licensing.)"

The top four network affiliates in the Top 100 markets had to be full-power by July 1, 2006. The FCC offered extensions to the stations who needed them (who couldn't be full-power by that date).

All digital stations in all 210 DMAs have to be full-power by July 1, 2006 (though the FCC will offer extensions to the stations who need them (if they cannot be full power by July 1, 2006), but the FCC has (last I heard) been pretty tough with handing out the extensions.

Though I have no idea when the stations in my DMA (Albany, #147) plan to upgrade to full-power, I am aware of the upgrade plans of the rest of my neighboring DMA stations that serve me with "Grade B" signals, and all but one station plans to be full-power by July 1, 2006, and most plan to be before that time.

~Alan

I see where WMAZ finally got the PSIP right for 13-3, and Doppler has returned.

Intercept Report - 2 miles from Byron GA (off Hwy 49 east of Byron).

I finally got my antenna on the roof today. Here is the setup:
>>> SR15 UHF/VHF antenna from antennas direct (http://www.antennasdirect.com/SR15_HDTV_Antenna.html)
>>> About the only tech data on the web site says it has "11 dB gain"
>>>About 40 ft off the ground. NO preamp.
>>> Belden 1694A cable with two breaks between antenna & receiver (ground block and wall plate)
>>> Estimate 70 ft of cable total
>>> Radio Shack Accurian HST 6000 receiver (yeah-the closeout one)

>>> Weather was overcast, humid
>>> Antenna is looking thru some (currently bare) trees
>>> Pointing direction was optimized for channel 24-1 signal strength
>>> The "antenna farm" is 11 miles from me

Channel Signal Strength Range
13-1 89-92
13-3 same
24-1 62-64
41-1 70-73
58-1 79-81
64-1 84-87

I did not get time today to swing it around toward ATL to see if i could get anything.
Does anybody have any idea of the absolute power level and/or dB/step the signal strength values might correspond to?
I could calculate the additional range loss to see if it might be worth trying.

Wonder what the loss is due to bare trees in the way (on my lot and the neighbors)?

P.S.- Intercept Report - 2 miles from Byron GA (off Hwy 49 east of Byron)

My previous post measurements were done about 6PM that day.

I repeated the measurements at 11:20PM, low thin fog, patchy clouds, stars visible.
All measurements were within one count of original readings although UPN was occassionally dropping below lock level.

Also, for the first time I am able to get Fox (24-1). I Had the antenna 6 ft off the ground for a few days and could not lock in Fox.

I did not get time today to swing it around toward ATL to see if i could get anything.When you get around to it. Try starting with DT-43 (WUPA-69), it is by far the strongest signal coming out of Atlanta. If your antenna is capable of VHF reception, and I assume it is since you're getting DT-4 out of Macon, even though you are only 11 miles from the farm and VHF antenna may not be necessary, try DT-10 (WXIA-11), it's as solid a signal as DT-43.
Does anybody have any idea of the absolute power level and/or dB/step the signal strength values might correspond to?
I could calculate the additional range loss to see if it might be worth trying.Sorry, but no.

Wonder what the loss is due to bare trees in the way (on my lot and the neighbors)?I wouldn't call bare trees a loss, it's a blessing, wait till you get leaves on them and you'll see what I mean.

Al

I see where WMAZ finally got the PSIP right for 13-3, and Doppler has returned.Thanks oldave, I had to rescan my tv to get it. Which turned out to be a blessing, in doing so it cleaned up a lot of duplicate channels as well as unused once locked (or twice-thrice locked) and unable to catch again channels that have been collecting atmospheric dust for a while. I also like the new sound that gives a weather report and not a multicast of the regular channel. Although, I wouldn't mind if they were to put one of the local radio channels on it.

Al

Ok... I'm in Haddock, antennaweb says that I am about 26 miles from wmaz. I'm receiving 13.1 and 13.2 doppler radar, and the picture is great, esp the native hd content. I can pick up upn on 64.1, but apparently its only broadcast in 480.
I cant pick up anything else, and I would think that I could. I have the radio shack VU-190 XR with rotor, no amplifier, its aproximately 22' off the ground, and i'm on relatively high ground in jones county. I am considering raising the antenna an additional 10' to see if that helps any. I can get a very clear (as far as analog goes) signal on 24,41,58. I have turned the antenna to maximise analog reception on these stations, and tried to pick up a digital signal, but cannot. I am using the hd tuner that is internal with the tv, a sony kdf-e42a10.

Chris, before you raise the antenna, you might need to get an amplifier. I'm at 20 miles out in the opposite direction (half between Lizella and Roberta), I use a deepfringe Winegard antenna w/amplifier and a CM rotor and have no problems, can also get Atlanta at night and somewhat in daylight. If I unplug my amp or disconnect it, I only get the 2 you mention (13 and 64). And, quite possibly with an amp you might be able to pull in Augusta. Note: this is pure speculation on my part. I have no confidence in Rat Shack antenna's or amplifiers. And raising your antenna certainly won't do any harm. Also a Rat Shack amplifier should work fine, if all you want is the Macon mux. Again, raising your antenna can't hurt. But, I think you'll still need the amp.

Al

Anybody else notice LOTS of pixellation of the Winter Olympics on WMGT-DT? From what i have read, this is due to not allocating enough bandwidth to the channel. Is ths a WMGT problem or upstream? Note the NASCAR Daytona qualifying (same channel later program) doesnt appear to have as much pixellation.

I concur. Also, seems like if the camera is not in the studio, the picture often looks like cox cable standard definition even tho it's wide screen.

Effect of TV network merger still unknown (http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/ma...macon_business)

News regarding "The CW" in Macon, and WGNM.

~Alan

Alan, I don't know what will happen in Macon. But, I do know it won't be on WGNM. There contract with UPN expires around September 2nd or 3rd and they will at that point become an exclusive Christian channel. WMAZ knows this and was interested in a subchannel for UPN, but now, with the new CW network they don't seem to be interested as Cox cable had rights to the WB network for the Macon market. If Cox cable gets the CW it should most likely be on cable only, as I seriously doubt they would put up an antenna for OTA reception.

Al

Alan, I don't know what will happen in Macon. But, I do know it won't be on WGNM. There contract with UPN expires around September 2nd or 3rd and they will at that point become an exclusive Christian channel. WMAZ knows this and was interested in a subchannel for UPN, but now, with the new CW network they don't seem to be interested as Cox cable had rights to the WB network for the Macon market. If Cox cable gets the CW it should most likely be on cable only, as I seriously doubt they would put up an antenna for OTA reception.

If you read the link I posted above, you'd see that it said the same thing. ;)

I've picked up WGNM a few times, and was looking for information regarding stations (UPN) that I can pick up, to see the chances of me picking up a CW affiliate, and thought I'd post it here for those of you who didn't know (I don't remember seeing it on this message board).

BTW, also for those of you who don't know, Dish Network will be converting the SD locals on the 105 SuperDISH to the DISH500 dish in the next few months...

~Alan

If you read the link I posted above, you'd see that it said the same thing. ;)


The link above doesn't work!

Any full power info?

The link above doesn't work!

Sorry, it did when I posted it. Here's a link to a post on a message board where the article is posted.

Effect of TV network merger still unknown (Macon, GA) (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=471889&postcount=32)

~Alan

If you read the link I posted above, you'd see that it said the same thing. ;)


~Alan
Alan, I'm sorry, but it didn't work for me, so I couldn't read it. But, the new one does and that's where I got my info over at the Sat Guys web site.

Al

i am 8.4 miles from the towers in Macon of hwy 57 and cannot pick up the fox station or nbc station in digital format, i pick up the other stations at roughly 85 signal, gut get 22 on fox and 36 on nbc. i am using a channel master 3020 antenna at 25 feet off ground. are fox and nbc not putting out enough power for me to receive them or do i need to try something else.

i am 8.4 miles from the towers in Macon of hwy 57 and cannot pick up the fox station or nbc station in digital format, i pick up the other stations at roughly 85 signal, gut get 22 on fox and 36 on nbc. i am using a channel master 3020 antenna at 25 feet off ground. are fox and nbc not putting out enough power for me to receive them or do i need to try something else.

Im 11 miles from the farm. See my other posts in this thread for my setup. I get all the local DTV stations but fox drops occasionally some nights. However most nights it is good.

There may be a number of reasons you cant get the others:
1. Antenna not high enough.
2. You may be in a depression or a hill or structures are between you and the towers (again, antenna not high enough) My ground elevation is 460 ft, which probably helps me a lot. (One way to get your elevation is load Google Earth and enter your address).
3. Cable/accessory loss - do you have a good quality low loss coax and connectors, minimal runs to the TV receiver, no splitters, etc? Check out Belden 1694A loss characteristics.
4. Trees? Is the antenna "looking" through a bunch them? Mine has a few hardwoods in the way but since we are coming out of winter, I guess its not much effect. I may loose signal in a few weeks due to leafing.
5. Is the antenna pointed correctly? (long shot) Check antennaweb.org for pointing angles for your address. Have somone watch the strength meter while you rotate the antenna to optimize it for one of the other channels within a degree or two of Fox/NBC. (i took a cell phone up on the roof while my wife watched the meter). Lock the antenna down at optimum strength. Then scan and see if you can get Fox/NBC.
6. Is your DTV receiver sensitive enough (probably OK since you pick up two).

A mast-mounted amp may help but no gaurantees. You have a high gain antenna already.

I think Fox power is way down so any improvement will bring in NBC before Fox.
Good luck.

Boy this thread is dead.

Hey Ralph Carson: Do you have any theories on why I seem to have more dropouts (especially on Fox) when the wind is gusting?

Is it my antenna bouncing around or yours? My antenna seems to have a fairly wide beamwidth, and is only on a single 10ft mast secured to the chimney. Hard to believe it could move that much. Cable is secured and has no breaks outside that could exhibit loose connection...........Hmmm .......i guess the oak tree it is looking thru the crown of DOES move in the wind. Could that be the cause? Even with no leaves yet?

Hey Evofxdawg:
I do not know. However, it sounds like the trees would be suspect. While any tower will move in the wind, the movement would be insignifigant to signal strength. However trees will move alot in the wind, and can absorb some signal strength, especially when fully leafed. Your home antenna could be moving some but if the mast is installed properly and the guy wires tensioned correctly, that shouldn't be a problem. Since our signal is very weak, it wouldn't take much if the signal is close to the threshold at your end. By law we have to shut down NTSC in 2009, and I expect that we will be full power at that time. With full power, this shouldn't be a problem. Also, if you are using old fashion twin lead, it should be properly stood off (using commercially availlable standoffs) from the house and should be drawn tight in areas exposed to the wind. This is not an issue with coax, and therefore it is more popular.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT

I put up an CM 8-bay antenna with preamp and now i get all the uhf stations a whole lot better, but now I have lost cbs and I can no longer get it, can I put a small vhf antenna on top of mast and combine it with my 8-bay or will that detract from what i have now

I put up an CM 8-bay antenna with preamp and now i get all the uhf stations a whole lot better, but now I have lost cbs and I can no longer get it, can I put a small vhf antenna on top of mast and combine it with my 8-bay or will that detract from what i have now

I suspect it will work. You'll lose a little more than 3dB thru a 2-way combiner and connectors (assuming you have matching impedance cable/combiner, and good connectors, etc.). If CBS is pretty strong relative to other stations (like Fox 24) I suggest placing combiner after the amp so you wont increase the noise level much for UHF. If it doesnt work well, move the combiner before the amp and try. Be sure and use mast-mount rated (weatherproof) combiner.

(Im assuming the VHF antenna you get will NOT have an amp)

Another approach is to get a mast-mount amp with two inputs (internal combiner). Not sure where or what is available.

WGNM-TV and it's sister station in Palm Beach, Florida have filed to drop analog entirely and Flash-cut to DTV (single channel, no multicast).

FCC Public Notices DA 06-6-46 and DA 06-6-47.

i am 8.4 miles from the towers in Macon of hwy 57 and cannot pick up the fox station or nbc station in digital format, i pick up the other stations at roughly 85 signal, gut get 22 on fox and 36 on nbc. i am using a channel master 3020 antenna at 25 feet off ground. are fox and nbc not putting out enough power for me to receive them or do i need to try something else.

FOX and NBC stations in Macon disgust me as far as their digital power output is concerned. It is a total shame that we have to put up huge masts of antennas pointed towards absolutely clear horizons on top of 10000 ft. hills with pre-amps and all that crap just to get digital signal from towers that are only a few miles away. It is an outrage in my opinion.

I have tried almost all options and still can't get local Macon FOX or NBC. BUT I GET some ATLANTA DIGITAL TV STATIONS. CAN YOU ALL FATHOM THAT? My god! wake up Macon FOX and NBC and do something about this low power foolishness. What a disgrace!!!!

Anyone at 41 ever look at this forum? If so, I'd like you to know I'm highly teed at you for your idiotic performance yesterday afternoon. I'm a Hockey Fan and was most disappointed when you failed to show the game in HD. Sure it was HD upconvert of the NBC/NHL SD feed. That's not good enough. I know for a fact it was in HD on Atlanta's channel 11. In fact that's the channel I watched. Lucky for me I can get 11 in the daytime, unlike the other Atlanta channels, which have too many dropouts during daylight hours. I did turn it back from time to time to see if anybody at your station had awakened from your nap yet. Every time I checked it was still SD with dark side bars which I don't care for. But, what astonished me was when the Hockey game was finished, someone woke up and flipped the switch for the Kentucky Derby in HD. I'm sure Horse Racing fans appreciated that. It only angered me more. Please do a better job today. I for one would really appreciate it. But, if you don't, I'll be more than happy to watch channel 11 again so I can get the most out of my TV. Thanks for any compassion you can find.

Al

Thank you channel 41 for getting it right today. It would be nice if you would boost your power up. Of course all Macon's stations need to boost their power. I hope some time in the near future, you can get 5.1 sound in your system. That would be nice.

Al

Hey guys.

I live in Eastman and about to buy a house. Because our cable company sucks (the only high def network Mediacom gives me is NBC), I'm thinking of switching to a dish and trying to pick up the digital channels out of Macon. Eastman is about 60 miles south of Macon. The house is in the city so I'm not sure how big of an antenna I can install. Any recommendations? Thanks.

Anyone?

Anyone?

A dish????? What kind of dish for Macon stations? Do you mean a parbolic reflector antenna?

Im 8 miles from the Macon transmitters. I have an antenna about 40 ft up that is advertised to have 7.8 dB gain. I am using low loss Belden 1694A coax (no more than 50 ft) without an amp. I get all the macon stations except Fox and I got it till the trees leaved out a few weeks ago. (Fox is transmitting low power and my antenna is actually looking thru some trees in my yard)

You are 60 miles from "the farm." If you need to acheive the same signal level as me to receive the stations, the inverse square law says you need 6dB additional gain for each doubling of the distance. 8 to 16, 16 to 32, and 32 to 64 gets to your range 3 "doubles" then means you need 3x6=18 dB more gain than me. 18+7.8 = 25.8 dB.

My calcs for a parabolic reflector antenna show you would need an 11 meter diameter dish to get this gain at 633 MHz (WMGT-DT carrier) and a 20 meter diameter dish at 211.25 MHz (WMAZ-DT carrier)! Got a source for spare radio astronomy antennas? Suggest you go with available yagi or bowtie reflector antenna types, as most people seem to do.

Commercially available long range antenna gains are not going to be more than 16 or 17 dB. And if you want a combined VHF/UHF antenna (You want to get WMAZ-DT so you can watch The Unit in Hi def dont you?), it is going to be lower.

Here is a good reference: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Look at the "Net Gain" plot.

heres a UHF only antenna claiming 16.7dB max gain:
http://www.antennasdirect.com/91XG_HDTV_antenna.html
but no VHF (cant get WMAZ-DT with this one)

Highest gain UHF/VHF i see from same place has 12.9 dB gain
http://www.antennasdirect.com/V21_vhf_antenna.html

Here is a good reference i just found tonite. And prices dont seem too bad either.
http://www.solidsignal.com/winegard_antenna_chart.asp
Note the longest UHF range they advertise is 60 miles.

So for UHF only, you need to make up 25.8 - 16 = 10 dB of antenna gain with a mast-mount Amp. For combined VHF/UHF, you need to make up 25.8 - 12.9 = 12.9 dB amp gain. And you need to make up any cable loss also. So you are going to need more than 13dB of gain out of the Amp. According to online vendor claims, you can get 18 to 28 dB amp gain (watch out for vendor claims). The amp will decrease signal to noise ratio a few dB which is something you cant do anything about. Hopefully, there is enough margin in the starting point (my setup gain and signal to noise ratio) and extra amp gain so your receiver will not have a problem.

All these gains considered, you also need "line of sight" which at 60 miles range, means you need the antenna way up in the air or you live on a mountain (i havent seen any in Eastman). If you are in a depression (elevation wise, not psycologically), forget it.

Bear in mind that all this is "seat of the pants" calculations and some based on vendor claims but you might get lucky. I have no idea what typical signal strengths are in Eastman, nor what minimum sensitivity is for any HDTV receiver. I would bet against you seeing anything (maybe WMAZ-DT at night) unless your land elevation is at least as much as surrounding terrain, you have a high gain antenna, TBD (60 ft, 100 ft? I dont know what is needed for line of sight at your location) or higher above the ground, no blockage by buildings or trees, mast mount preamp of 15dB or greater, and low loss, high shield coverage cable.

Suggest you find someone else out there who successfully did it and assess your situation from their installation. Anybody in Eastman pulling Macon HDTV off the air?????

Hey Shahm:
If we hadn't have gone low power it is doubtful we would be broadcasting in HD or even just digital at this point. There is a tremendous cost associated with building and running a high power transmission plant, and at this time little or no return on it. But cheer up, It's still a long time away and there are many things that could stall progress, but initial planning has begun for high power. And that's about all I can say at this time.

Ralph Carson
Assistant Chief Engineer
WGXA TV24, WGXA-DT16
Macon, Georgia

A dish????? What kind of dish for Macon stations? Do you mean a parbolic reflector antenna?

Oops! Should have been more clear. By dish I mean Dish Network or DirecTV. Since neither offers Macon channels in hi-def (yet?), I was wanting to use an antenna to try and pick up the Macon stations in HDTV. I don't think I'll be able to get a decent line of sight though without putting up a huge freakin' antenna. :(

Hey Shahm:
If we hadn't have gone low power it is doubtful we would be broadcasting in HD or even just digital at this point. There is a tremendous cost associated with building and running a high power transmission plant, and at this time little or no return on it.
Ralph,

I can understand what you are saying about the cost of a high-power digital plant-- both the capital and operating costs are large. However, my beef with broadcasters like your station- and the FOX and ABC stations in Savannah- is that as part of the NAB, every broadcaster has in effect wanted to have their cake and eat it, too. ;)

I'm talking about the various laws and regs lobbied for by the broadcasters that prohibit the satellite TV carriers and cable companies from offering folks in the local area HD distant networks. If the local broadcasters don't want to spend the money for HD digital signal coverage that at least equals their analog coverage, then they should not be able to block local folks from acquiring HD distant networks from other providers (satellite or cable). In other words, in your case there in Macon and in the case of the FOX and ABC stations in Savannah, any resident in your DMA should be allowed to get the HD network feeds from the New York affiliates via satellite (DirecTV or Dish Network) as long as the local affiliate's HD DTV coverage is substantially less than their analog coverage.

It sort of appears to me the local stations don't want to spend any money to provide high-power HD coverage, but at the same time they want to use the law and the FCC to keep their dissatisfied viewers from defecting to satellite or cable provided distant network affiliates- hence my "have their cake and eat it, too" remark.

Dear Bmeeks8:
I know why the stations lobby for exclusivity. Personally I have no hand in it, but I understand the reason. They want to insure that when they do upgrade, there will be a viewership. When a TV station makes a deal with the network or buys a program they are buying the rights to distribute that program in their area. They guard that jealously, and for good reason. When we signed on in 1982 we had to compete with Atlanta (We were an ABC station back then). It took a move to Fox to correct that situation. We were trying to sell advertising on programs whose impact was diluted because you could watch the same thing on another channel. For local advertising, it didn't benefit Atlanta, because few people are going to run to Atlanta to get common goods. If the satellite companies are not carrying our HD signal, you need to address them. We have no control over that. High power will be along in a few years, and you may just have to grin and bear it in the interrim. You can be assured that when the gear is in my hands, I will act swiftly to implement it.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24

Ralph,

As I said, I can understand the basic motivation of the local stations to lobby for and want exclusivity. And in fact, if the local affiliate were offering an HD DTV signal whose coverage was equal to their analog signal, I would not be griping one bit. What chaps my posterior, though, is for the local stations to adopt a token "stab" at HD DTV with ultra low-power equipment and then turn around and use the cover of the FCC and SHVERA (may not have that acronymn right :)) to block any competing provider that could serve their viewers an HD DTV signal. I'm talking about those folks like me and thousands of others that are within the affiliates analog coverage, but not their QRP DT signal. See, to me it's a carrot and stick thing. If I were the FCC, I would say to locals that the instant you have a high-power DTV signal that matches your analog one in coverage area, you get exclusivity in your DMA. Until then, any viewer in your area that wants HD DTV can get it from the Distant Network stations on satellite or cable. The carrot is "exclusivity", and the stick is "outside competition" in the form of DNS (distant network service).

All of us out here in the sticks have begged the satellite providers for HD coverage from the networks, but they say they can't due to the laws. They are slowly adding local HD, but for us in the Savannah and Macon markets, that is a long time away due to the ranking in the DMA list.

Vidalia is about 77 miles from the Macon towers. I doubt that even a full-power UHF will make it that far unless you have a major receive antenna. Is Vidalia considered "within" the coverage area (except, maybe for WMAZ's VHF signals)?

What you guys need are some good old-fashioned translator stations :)

No, we don't get the Macon stations. We get Savannah sort of. I frequent the Savannah and Macon threads since they are more or less "local" for me. I'm 65 miles or so from Savannah and get WTOC-DT (UHF 15) and WSAV-DT (UHF 39) pretty good. The Fox and ABC affiliates though are running QRP mode and just barely radiate signal outside the radius of the tower guy wires!

This "exclusivity thing" and SHVERA and DMAs are just a favorite soapbox of mine. Like I said above, if a station won't offer an equivalent coverage digital signal, they should not be able to block access to HD DNS for satellite viewers by refusing waiver requests and other maneuvers.

For me personally, I have Local-into-Local Savannah analog from DirecTV and I have the East Coast HD DNS feeds from New York (at the moment anyway). So it's true that right now I don't have a horse in this race, but it does not mean I don't have an opinion on how this process works. Plus, there is constant talk on the DirecTv boards and forums about folks like me losing HD DNS.

I think D* says something specifically about being eligible for DNS if you are 70 miles+ from the stations. So, I'm kinda surprised they haven't qualified you. But, if you are getting some of the full-power analogs at that distance, that just proves the stations would be smart to get the DTVs up to full power and serve their potential full audience.

Also, if the Cable systems in the smaller towns are getting OTA instead of fiber connections, full-power DTV is a great way to feed them....that helps justify the costs of going full-power.

I agree with that. Right now most I suspect are picking up only our analog signal, though I believe Perry is picking up the digital. I have spoken with their chief engineer. We send both our analog and digital to Cox through a fiber feed, so we don't even have to be on the air for them. The satellite providers pick us up off the air and I understand they use our analog signal. As far as high power hi def goes, it'll happen when it happens. Unfortunately we throw most of our high def signal to the west, south, and north. The east is shaded by the tower.

Ralph Carson
WGXA DT16

I think D* says something specifically about being eligible for DNS if you are 70 miles+ from the stations. So, I'm kinda surprised they haven't qualified you.
I am currently qualified for HD DNS by DirecTV because I had analog DNS from them before some arbitrary cutoff date. On the other hand, one of my co-workers who lives right here in the same town just a mile or so away has been told by both D* and Dish that they can't qualify him for HD DNS due to the new laws.

The other stupid thing is D* lets me have both East and West Coast network feeds for my analog DNS, but my HD DNS feed is limited to the East Coast feeds only :confused:. My West Coast HD DNS feeds were just pulled one day out of the blue. This happened to all the HD DNS subscribers-- we are all limited to one feed or the other by geography, but not both. Makes no logical sense. I'm afraid the same thing might happen one day to my remaining HD DNS feeds.

And oh by the way, I meant I'm getting the full-power OTA digital HD feeds from WTOC and WSAV with an attic-mounted Channel Master CM-4228 and pre-amp. I lose them during the middle of the day, but can hold them solid the rest of the time. If the FOX and ABC affiliates provided the same coverage, I would get off my soapbox about SHVERA.

There is not much can be done about all that, though you are welcome to complain about it. I'm an engineer and do not get involved in those legal issues. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for HD high power.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24\DT16

Hey guys.

I live in Eastman and about to buy a house. Because our cable company sucks (the only high def network Mediacom gives me is NBC), I'm thinking of switching to a dish and trying to pick up the digital channels out of Macon. Eastman is about 60 miles south of Macon. The house is in the city so I'm not sure how big of an antenna I can install. Any recommendations? Thanks.
Todd, sorry if I'm late in giving you my response to your question. I haven't visited the forum for a couple of weeks. With the low power of the Macon stations, it's hard to know for sure. I would suggest you get a VHF/UHF/FM deepfringe antenna from Channel Master or Winegard. And get an amplifier made for the antenna you choose. You will also need a rotor to turn the antenna with. None of this is cheap and there is no gaurantee it will work for Macon because of the low power. I honestly think it will work for channels 13, 58, 64, but I would worry about 24 and 41. I think after dark you will be OK and your troubles will be mostly in daylight. I live west of Macon and about 20 miles from the towers and have no problems with any of them, while some people in Macon can't get all of them. I use a Winegard VHF/UHF/FM deepfringe antenna with the strongest amplifier they make and watch Atlanta's (at 85+ miles) channels 2, 11, 17 and 69 most days, and I also get them along with 5, 34, 36, 46 and 63 at night and sometimes 30 and 14 will come in. I also use a rotor. I could be wrong, but I think with a simular set-up you would get 3 Macon stations (maybe all) and the independant from Cordele and channel 6 in Thomasville and probably some more in other directions. You could try to find out if what others are doing in your area. If you can't find out any info, just try it and see. Good Luck!!!

Al

Incidently, I am not aware of any law that prevents satellite providers from rebroadcasting our HD signal from off the air like they do our analog signal. While they have to set up an agreement, they can do it, if I'm not mistaken. But legal matters are not my forte so don't take that as gospel. I will try to find out for sure.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV

Ralph,

You are correct there is no law against it, and eventually the two big providers will get around to all the DMAs, but Macon and Savannah are way down on their priority lists due to the size of the markets. Atlanta already has HD LIL (Local into Local) from DirecTV, but I can't have it because I'm not in the Atlanta DMA. That old FCC rule and federal law thing again...:)

We will probably forever disagree on the morality of this subject. I sum up my point of view this way-- the local Fox HD stations (in Savannah and Macon) have a product my friend wants (HDTV). They don't want to spend any extra money so he can receive their product (like going full-power). I'm OK with that up to the point where they then lobby the federal government through their membership in affiliate organizations and make it illegal for anyone else to sell him what he wants (Fox HD) via an alternative method (delivery over satellite). That's just plain wrong to me and I will always think it is.

However we do not sell our shows. We give it away. We sell the advertising and the show is there to get you to look at the advertising. The better the show, the better chance of that happening. For this to work, we must have exclusivity. Your complaint is really about the slow march of progress rather than this arrangement. But progress will happen, I assure you. I just don't know when.

Incidently, when the sattellite providers put our signal on their birds, we got a serious boost in ratings. This is because a lot of people who got on the dish didn't bother to put up an antenna. That does great harm to free over the air TV. When we were finally put on the sattellites, we could then reach those viewers. So you can imagine that we're all for it. Since they now have facilities in town to pick up signals, maybe that will hasten the day when we will be on the sattellites in HD.

Ralph Carson
WGXA TV24/DT16
Macon, Georgia

Todd, sorry if I'm late in giving you my response to your question. I haven't visited the forum for a couple of weeks. With the low power of the Macon stations, it's hard to know for sure. I would suggest you get a VHF/UHF/FM deepfringe antenna from Channel Master or Winegard. And get an amplifier made for the antenna you choose. You will also need a rotor to turn the antenna with. None of this is cheap and there is no gaurantee it will work for Macon because of the low power. I honestly think it will work for channels 13, 58, 64, but I would worry about 24 and 41. I think after dark you will be OK and your troubles will be mostly in daylight. I live west of Macon and about 20 miles from the towers and have no problems with any of them, while some people in Macon can't get all of them. I use a Winegard VHF/UHF/FM deepfringe antenna with the strongest amplifier they make and watch Atlanta's (at 85+ miles) channels 2, 11, 17 and 69 most days, and I also get them along with 5, 34, 36, 46 and 63 at night and sometimes 30 and 14 will come in. I also use a rotor. I could be wrong, but I think with a simular set-up you would get 3 Macon stations (maybe all) and the independant from Cordele and channel 6 in Thomasville and probably some more in other directions. You could try to find out if what others are doing in your area. If you can't find out any info, just try it and see. Good Luck!!!

Al

Thanks for the info. I checked AntennaWeb and it's telling me I'm actually about 43 miles away from the towers. The main one I am interested in getting is of course WMAZ 13 since during college football season CBS broadcasts a number of University of Georgia football games (Go Dawgs!!!) in hi-def. The wife is currently against putting an antenna on our new house. But I think I may be able to eventually talk her into it. I'll check out the Winegard deep fringe models. Thanks for the help!

If all you want is digital, a big UHF antenna and a single-channel yagi cut for channel 4 might be nicer looking.

Ken, eventually there will be a channel 7 in our market for the PBS station in Cochran. Would a single channel Yagi cut for channel 4 work with channel 7? Just curious..... or would it need it's own Yagi cut for channel 7?

Al

Ok, stupid question probably.

But what is a "yagi cut?"

I'm not really sure, but I think it's an antenna made specifically for a specific channel. The wavelength of a channels frequency is a certain length and each channel is different (has a different wavelength), so the antenna would be cut the correct length to capture the correct wavelength of the specific channel, or something like that. Remember, I don't really know what I'm saying.

Al

We should have said "....yagi (comma), cut for......" :) .

Technically, a Yagi (a "Yagi-Uda", named for it's two inventors) is a limited bandwidth antenna with a rear reflector, one or more "driven" elements, and several "director" elements. The most common consumer version is an FM antenna, with a BW of about 20 MHz or so. They can be "cut" or designed for specific bands or channels, and usually are the best option for high quality or high gain on a given channel. That's why you'll see them grouped all over a Cable TV headend or big hotel.

Most people refer to a regular TV antenna as a "Yagi" as well. Technically, those broadband "all-channel" antennas we commonly see are really "Log-Periodic Dipole Arrays", or LPDA, or simply "Logs". They are a combination of different-channel Yagi-Udas, arranged in logarithmic sequence, so the bands overlap each other. At the "perfect" frequency, a specific element is active. At higher frequencies, that same element acts like a reflector. At lower frequencies, it is electrically shorter in length and acts as a director.
Of course, as with all engineering, the simpler the setup, the more compromises. Thus, the Yagi is better than LPDA, is better than rabbit ears, etc.

When I mentioned a Channel 4 Yagi, I wasn't thinking about the future "settling-out" of channels. I think WMAZ-DT recently specified 13 as their eventual "permanent" channel (after the analog shut-down). If you need several different VHF channels, you'll still need something broadband. Of course, remembering the engineer's rule (compromises, compromises, compromises), a step down from individual yagis would be a Low-Band (2-6) antenna, a High-Band (7-13) antenna, and a UHF (14-69) antenna. That way, you might still tailor the signals a bit, since you could use bigger/smaller antennas for the weaker/stronger signals, as needed....or even eliminate the need for one band all together.

You might want to point out that the VHF band although it is often treated as one band is actually two separate bands separated by, as I recall, the FM radio band.

Ralph Carson

The "FM band" starts right at the audio carrier for VHF channel 6. That's followed by the "Aviation band" and then public safety, ham radio and a couple of other services before getting to VHF channel 7.