These “engineers” are either stupid or don’t give a crap.

They act as if Colorado Springs is the first market in the country to begin HD transmission, time shifting, wind loading of towers and weather alerts that have never before been considered.

If I were the station engineer at KKTV I would simply pick up the phone and call the supplier of my HD transmitting equipment and ask how to transmit weather alerts without having to fall back to SD.

For arguments sake maybe Colorado Springs is the first market to experience these issues????

Yeah Right.

I agree with your sentiments but the problem is not with the digital transmitting equipment. The video feeds are fed into a computer server that allows for delay of broadcasts, merging of local commercials with national programming and graphic overlays. Either their hardware and or software don't have the capability to overlay local graphics on HD material or the engineers at KKTV don't know how to do it. It could require upgrading of software or replacement of expensive equipment. KKTV initially did a bad job of switching between HD programming and SD commercials but seem to have gotten better at that.

I've been following the digital/HDTV rollout for some time. I remember reading that the Fox network went with a sophisticated digital "splicing" system that the network supplied to all of the stations. That's why KXRM can put their local bug in the corner of their HD broadcasts. KRDO, on the otherhand didn't have a server that was even capable of time delay until recently, so each station is following their own path.

I wonder what, if any, support CBS, ABC and NBC supply to their stations to help them get up and running with digital and HD.

Roy

royrose,
I appreciate your knowledge on this subject. I am totally ignorant.
However, from a layman’s point of view I see nothing but excuses.
Every problem has a solution(s) software, hardware, due diligence in engineering etc.

The local networks all act as though they are blazing new trails, going were no man has gone before, pushing the technology envelope beyond anything ever previously imagined.

If they need new software, hardware or a new “tube” then order it today and have FedEx deliver it tomorrow.

There are very few non governmental businesses in the world that can survive giving their customers nothing but excuses.

This is the root of the problem. We the viewers are not the customers the advertisers are. As long as the advertisers remain unconcerned and or unaware of the viewer’s displeasure the only change will be the excuse of the day.

I'm sure it does take a ton of powerful hardware and/or setup to decompress an HD signal, overlay some graphics into it, and recompress it in real time. I haven't seen the extent of the KKTV weather alerts this week, but we all know that it doesn't normally rain this much either. If normally they have to cut in 3 nights a month, even I can't get upset about that.

By the way, the KOAA "tube" or whatever it is is apparently a $100,000 part according to Andy Wineke's blog, so it probably is not an off-the-warehouse-shelf, throw-it-in-a-FedEx-box type of part...

There are very few non governmental businesses in the world that can survive giving their customers nothing but excuses.
And, why do we even allow that? :confused:

This is the root of the problem. We the viewers are not the customers the advertisers are. As long as the advertisers remain unconcerned and or unaware of the viewer’s displeasure the only change will be the excuse of the day.
There is a solution to that: Stop Viewing. When viewership goes down, so do advertising rates. This would hit the station's bottom line.
....jc

Yeah, but I'm trying to enjoy more HDTV, not less...

I'm sure it does take a ton of powerful hardware and/or setup to decompress an HD signal, overlay some graphics into it, and recompress it in real time. I haven't seen the extent of the KKTV weather alerts this week, but we all know that it doesn't normally rain this much either. If normally they have to cut in 3 nights a month, even I can't get upset about that.

Whatever the case may be KKTV turns it off for their real customers so as not to distract the viewers from the important messages their customers wish to share with us.

By the way, the KOAA "tube" or whatever it is is apparently a $100,000 part according to Andy Wineke's blog, so it probably is not an off-the-warehouse-shelf, throw-it-in-a-FedEx-box type of part...

I guess if it ever breaks when they no longer have our analog bandwidth to fall back on they'll just have to shut down for a month or so.

I too am trying to watch MORE HDTV, but I am diametrically opposed to watching a poor quality transmission of good programming. I love "My Name is Earl" on KOAA but even a 'good' analog signal looks lousy & grainy after one has seen the HDTV version of the same ... I couldn't watch season 2 of "Lost" after I was aware of the easter eggs I missed simply because of low-res & transmission imperfections ... *UGH*

We as viewers have control in a slow process: I have only viewed KOAA & UPN KXTU approximately 6 times respectively in the last 18 months for the premieres of "The Office" & "Medium" a select few viewings of "Earl" and "Veronica Mars" on UPN ... I actually remember PREFERRING to watch a re-run of "Veronica Mars" on CBS in 1080i rather than fidget thru a poor representation of it on KTXU. The point I am making is that a mountain can be moved 1 grain of sand at a time; yes, it's a slow process for network television. What I don't understand is how programming "brought to you by viewers like you" hasn't seen a more immediate change... They pledge a few times every year, I send a few times every year, etc. I want my HDTV presentations of NOVA, Nature, British Comedy, whatever. Sesame Street too, if they can; I've always wanted to KNOW how many yellow feathers are on that Big Bird anyway. Besides all that a 16x9 presentation would allow for character representation of Big Bird, Oscar the Grouch, Cookie Monster & Mr. Aloysius Snuffleupagus - ALL AT THE SAME TIME - WOW!

Joking aside, what causes change is the "Golden Rule" - he who has the gold, is he who makes the rules... We, as consumers, have the "Gold", we make the rules.
Personally, I won't "settle" for bad transmission of good programming. TV quality needs to be at LEAST as good as EXCELLENT quality DVD to compete with other digital entertainment. Here's why I say this:
I'll use the show "Weeds" as a good example in that the DVD set is on sale at a local retailer at @ 28.00 - mind you, it is 1.33:1- but great writing on a premium channel & the set is three months programming, I know a few people that, for them, this show is THE reason they subscribe to Showtime; for them, this equates to the same approximate expense & not just for a single viewing; but for OWNERSHIP of the media & nearly unlimited viewing of the content. Not just timeshifting, not limited time viewing "On-demand", but real media ownership: show it to your visiting friends, lend it out - play it on loop til the DVD player konks out ....
That's 11 or 12 episodes @ 50+ mins compare a similar purchase price for "Lost" on DVD with no damned untimely commercial breaks- forced intermissions- with 23 episodes or so ... This says the Networks had better shape up if they want to "sell" my limited attention span in 30 second segments to "Tuff Shed" or "Diamond City" or "Chem-Lawn" & display something WORTH seeing & tuning in for - Good programming, good presentation, good transmission & that must mean BETTER than DVD quality (HDTV).

doGlooP - over & out for now

Quick turn to KOAA I think they flipped the switch.
That or their analog tube is broken too.
Nothing but a blank screen.

I just scanned off air channels and KOAA HD it isn't availible yet. Maybe the message" No need to call us - Your local station is working to restore their signal as soon as possible This TV station is having technical difficulties. being displayed on KOAA SD is a sign It will be today.Possibly Koaa will be broadcasting High Definition Today . . . .Lets hope so. . .

Quick turn to KOAA I think they flipped the switch.
That or their analog tube is broken too.
Nothing but a blank screen.



Funny.

Quick turn to KOAA I think they flipped the switch.
That or their analog tube is broken too.
Nothing but a blank screen.
I dunno. They're also dead on D*. Message is: 'This TV station is having technical difficulties'.
....jc

I'm not home from work yet to test this, but just the fact that they might have 'squirted' out some ATSC is a good sign...


-doGlooP

I'm not home from work yet to test this, but just the fact that they might have 'squirted' out some ATSC is a good sign...
Squirted is correct. But, it ain't anything digital, it was in the toidy.
....jc

Squirted is correct. But, it ain't anything digital, it was in the toidy.
....jc


It took a couple of reads before I got the toidy part and now I'm crying from laughing so hard.

I hear you. Earl is my husband's favorite show and the only reason we watch KOAA right now. It is painful to watch in SD. It was also painful watching the 2nd season of Lost in here after watching season 1 in HD in California. Same with Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy. Yes, and we had Showtime HD there just to see the first season of Weeds. I'll get it here when Comcast takes over if they have any offers. Adelphia charges way too much here. Don't get me started on that though...

I too am trying to watch MORE HDTV, but I am diametrically opposed to watching a poor quality transmission of good programming. I love "My Name is Earl" on KOAA but even a 'good' analog signal looks lousy & grainy after one has seen the HDTV version of the same ...

I called this morning to inquire about the KOAA losing signal yesterday. They said it was weather related. They did say that they received the new Tube and the Microwave was non function right out of the box. They received a loaner Microwave and broadcasted on KOAA-DT for about and hour on Friday. It didn't work properly so they ordered the correct Microwave and It should arrive in one to two weeks. The persons name I spoke with was Harold , he was very nice and didn't mind answering any of my questions. He told me that they should have a High Def Signal by the end of the month for sure. I know we have heard this before. Lets cross our fingers

Thanks for getting real information for us! We appreciate it.

I got $10 says it won't happen by the end of the month. Who wants in on the action? :D

I got $10 says it won't happen by the end of the month. Who wants in on the action? :D


Not a chance :(

NASCAR is back on NBC and I'm sure they think it looks better in SD.

What the heck! KXRM/FOX is supposed to have the MLB All-Star Game in HD, actually with FOX's new better bitrate according to Ken H on these forums, and yet it's not in HD right now on 21-1. Nationally, of course, it is up in HD.

If only our HD stations would provide HD, not to mention the non-HD stations around here... (Welcome to amateur hour?)

Guess the proverbial switch was flipped sometime between 6:20 and 7:20 - the HD on Fox looked stellar after that.

Could be true about Fox having more bits to devote to HD with the recent change (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=696851).

Watched the last two innings of the All-Star game. The PQ was excellent in my opinion. I hope that NBC will follow suit before the first NFL game.

The switch was actually flipped sometime before the Star Spangled Banner (I started my recording at 6:30). I watched the whole game and I have to say, I didn't notice any abnormalities caused by amateur operators... pregame SNAFU aside... and the picture was outstanding!

until last nights "re-cap" episode. see, i refuse to watch anything available in HD being broadcast SD, (exception, SNL) so the past few weeks i've been somewhat perplexed experiencing this show. it was good timing for any newbies to the show.

on a side note, krdo seems to have an occasional glitch with their hd recorder, periodic skipping/stuttering/repeats. hope they are working on this...

FCC grants Adelphia assets sale (http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1319275&secid=4)

Looks like Adelphia will be sold to Comcast by the end of the month. It will be interesting to see what if anything changes.

Personally, I can only hope it will be an improvement, I have little more than contempt for the customer-unfriendly way business has been done in about the last few decades.


-doGlooP

:eek: 21 Day Warning! :eek:
:eek: 21 Day Warning! :eek:
:eek: 21 Day Warning! :eek:

That's right folk's! In just 21 days the 1st preseason NFL game will be broadcast on NBC. The game features the Oakland Raiders vs. Philadelphia Eagles. Game time is 6:00 pm MDT. Is the 1st Brown Tower Award Winner, and our own KOAA, up to the challenge?

My $$$$ is on hold for now.
....jc

Is anyone using Dish Network and if so how is their HD? Also, do they have the local channels in HD? Right now I have Adelphia, but am considering changing. Thanks all for the help.

I've got Dish and the HD is fantastic. No local HD yet, but I don't care. Both of my receivers have built in OTA tuners anyway.

doesn anyone know when dish (or even directv for that matter) are going to start using their new satellites they put up last year for more HD channels?
but I too have dish HD and it looks great

Was on antennaweb.org today, and noticed it said NBC is already broadcasting channel 5.1 DT. Last time I checked, which was months ago, said TBD for the live date. Is anyone getting 5.1, or did they just get ahead of themselves???

I just tried and not a trace of signal. I can receive everthing else just fine, better than Denver.

We just did a Home Theater install this past weekend and picked up 5.1 for around 15 minutes. It looked good. Similar to KKTV IMO.

~Josh

Apex Home Theater (http://www.apexhometheater.com)

Nuttin' here...

We just did a Home Theater install this past weekend and picked up 5.1 for around 15 minutes. It looked good. Similar to KKTV IMO.Apex Home Theater (http://www.apexhometheater.com)
As in, they were testing on the weekend, and had HD going as well??

As in, they were testing on the weekend, and had HD going as well??

That is correct.

~Josh

What are the chances that NBC will be in HD by Saturday to show the original Miami Vice pilot movie, which is being broadcast in HD??? Wishful thinking I know...

slim to none

well, if beatboy is correct, looks as though we are within days of koaa in HD.

What channel is that going to be on? 30-1?

What channel is that going to be on? 30-1?
According to http://antennaweb.org/ it will be 5-1.

Maybe Josh/beatboy77 can remember what channel he saw it on briefly this past weekend...

Rob

We just did a Home Theater install this past weekend and picked up 5.1 for around 15 minutes. It looked good. Similar to KKTV IMO.

~Josh

Apex Home Theater (http://www.apexhometheater.com)


5.1 = 5-1

Some TVs/receivers use a decimal instead of a dash for the OTA subchannel number, like the Mitsubishis for example

I assume it will take Adelphia days/weeks/months to get it added to their HD tier once they KOAA goes HD? Guess I'll have to dig out my antenna and see it I can get it OTA...

Last new channel, Adelphia added it the first day, I think

If I will be able to receive KOAA up here in Highlands Ranch and it remaps to 5-1, I'm wondering what kind of problem that might be for my tuners since I currently receive KGWN from Cheyenne which also remaps to channel 5-1.

I doubt that KOAA's signal will be that strong.

If I will be able to receive KOAA up here in Highlands Ranch and it remaps to 5-1, I'm wondering what kind of problem that might be for my tuners since I currently receive KGWN from Cheyenne which also remaps to channel 5-1.
I guess that would depend on the tuner! :p My D* tuner(LSS 3200A) handles duplicates for Analog, D* & HD, and the Analog & D* can have the same channel number. Funny thing, this receiver thinks that channel 5 - KGWN is KOAA! KGWN comes in fine, KOAA hasn't got a chance up here.

I doubt that KOAA's signal will be that strong.
Well, they have been boasting The Most Powerful Digital Signal in Colorado(880 kW). Of course we know their track record! :mad:

Their 41 dBu Service Contour (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1026431.html) looks like it makes it. However, I have seen that some of these contours are somebody's idea of creative wishful thinking. :rolleyes:
....jc

***News Flash!***
KOAA-HD....still not on the air. :mad:

Thought you might like to know

Yup, it really is too bad. I, for one, would have loved to have watched the Miami Vice pilot in 1080i.

On a side note:
Did anyone else notice that KRDO dropped audio on the HDTV 13-1 for their 'feature presentation'?

-doGlooP


P.S.
I had to add this edit for my personal amusement:
I'd love a tiny bit of 'support' form both the Gazette & Chieftan with a headline like this:
"800,000 Colorado Residents Miss HDTV Broadcast Due to KOAA Half-truths..."
That would get their attention and it would be mostly true as far as the Olympics WERE concerned. Every grown up knows we can't change the past, but that's an easy one to become bitter about. I wouldn't mind seeing them have to fess up that THE reason for delay really is from their own procrastination, after all, there is a REASON that they were THE last station to FILE for their needed permits in our area.
That even matters as a factor if one WERE to BELIEVE the excuses blamed on our local bureaucratic non-sense (which may be possible or even likely ...)

Folks, On Adelphia, the KKTV HD channel has the sound completely out of sync on their news broadcasts.

Any idea why this would be? Is it that way on OTA too?

Also, they show the picture in a 4:3 size with the grey areas on the sides, but the quality is alot better than on their regular SD channel. Why? It seems to just be their standard SD broadcast on their HD station.

Thanks!

Anybody want to meet a Microsoft Exec? The VP in charge of Consumer Media Techonolgy (see bio (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/amirm/default.mspx)) is doing an informal tour of the country to meet AVS folk and give a presentation on HD-DVD and VC1 (aka WMV), Microsoft's video codec.

He's trying to gauge interest at different cities around the country. He's looking for a group of 5-20 people or so. Please respond in the Denver Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=28456) me if interested in attending. This would most likely happen sometime in the fall (September or October), and would probably happen in Denver somewhere.

Also, if anyone has any suggestions for a meeting place with a high quality video system and room for the group, let me know.

Ceavco A/V would be a great place to rent the equipment...you might just rent out a meeting hall in a hotel or something.

http://www.ceavco.com/

I called KOAA this morning and Harold told me High Defintion Broadcast is ready to go andwill resume Aug 1, 2006 at 12:00 am. Lets hope so.

He told me the same yesterday. He said they have the server to timeshift primetime programming so everything that is produced in HD will be available here. Hopefully nothing else goes wrong...would be really nice to have finally.

Good news about KOAA. If HD is ready to go, why wait until Aug 1? Do it now.

I suppose there may be final things to do on Monday, plus if there are problems after going live, you don't want to have them on the weekend. Doubt NBC has much HD programming this weekend, no sure.

They should start with the Tonight Show on Monday night at 10:35 - only 85 minutes earlier than current plans.

plus if there are problems after going live, you don't want to have them on the weekend.

Oh, c'mon... what could possibly go wrong???

:eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

- Bob

Oh, c'mon... what could possibly go wrong???

:eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

Due to unforseen circumstances, the use of Bubble Yum (http://www.hersheys.com/products/details/bubbleyum.asp) instead of concrete to secure the guy wires has caused the complete destruction of the broadcast tower. In addition, building the tower itself out of magnesium was ill advised, considering the massive fireball observed shortly after the tower collapsed. This should only delay our broadcast of the most powerful HD signal in the galaxy by three weeks and we should be on the air by August 20th.

--Ron

OK, we need some people to go on the record here to say that it will NEVER EVER happen.

Any bets on how long it will take Adelphia to add KOAA to their HD lineup?

less than 24 hours, I say

Anyone know which Adelphia channel it'll be on yet?

What channel is that going to be on? 30-1?

It'll be channel 42, and as others have said, it should remap to 5-1.

:eek: 7 Day Warning! :eek:
:eek: 7 Day Warning! :eek:
:eek: 7 Day Warning! :eek:

A week from today the 1st preseason NFL game will be broadcast on NBC. The game features the Oakland Raiders vs. Philadelphia Eagles. Game time is 6:00 pm MDT. Is the 1st Brown Tower Award Winner, and our own KOAA, up to the challenge?

The rumors have it that they'll be on the air in less than 24 hours. I sure hope so(how dare they mess up football!). But then again, we are talking about KOAA!
....jc

then again, we are talking about KOAA!
Signed.

then again, we are talking about KOAA!




Sealed ?!?!

Anyone know which Adelphia channel it'll be on yet?

I'd guess 705 or 730 if they map it the way they've done with other digital locals. They might surprise us though :)

So are any of you Adelphia HD users considering the upcoming Tivo Series 3 for next year? I'm curious if this will be a viable solution for us in COS. I am on contract to D* thru Aug 2007 and I'm interested to see if Adelphia/Comcast offers a Tivo solution or if the S3 delivers on the proposed solution.

Can someone remind me, what is the current sub cost to get HD from Adelphia (w/ no premium channels)? Thx.

So KOAA HD by tomorrow - should I hold my breath. or just pass out now? :)

There's an article about Comcast coming to town in today's Gazette:

The New Cable Guy (http://www.gazette.com/display.php?secid=4)

There's an article about Comcast coming to town in today's Gazette:

Interesting read. So it sounds like they want to rule the world and take control of our wallets too. The tripple play concept is interesting. I am currently at about $150/mo with three speerate providers (phone, Broadband, Sat). With there intro offer of $99/mo, I'd be interested to see what they offer. Of course Tivo is something I would like to keep as an HD recording device.

Re Adelphia HD Cost. I just pay my bill every month, but I think it is $10.99 for the first tier of HD and $5 for the second Tier. The second tier includes the HD Net channels, maybe another, not sure. Acourse you pay extra for the box too, i have the Moxi (Moxi is nowhere near as good as Tivo, it does have the dual tuner, but it is only for recording, not for live TV) and it is like 7 or 8 bucks per month for it too. Again, i'm going from memory but this is what i think it costs, $24-25. I heard that Comcast does not offer HD Net, so we may lose those channels anyways, but Comcast offers TNT HD and The NFL Network HD. No changes are expected any time soon though.

Sealed ?!?!



Denied.... :D

[QUOTE]I called KOAA this morning and Harold told me High Defintion Broadcast is ready to go andwill resume Aug 1, 2006 at 12:00 am. Lets hope so.

July 31, 2006, 6:50pm - Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock Tick ...........................................

Why midnight? Why not at 10:30 tonight and kick it off with the Tonight Show and Conan O'Brien?
Makes no sense at midnight.....feh....I don't see it happening.

So does this mean that at 12AM Conan will go from SD to HD mid broadcast?

So does this mean that at 12AM Conan will go from SD to HD mid broadcast?
Nope. It's more like there will be a shower of sparks up on Cheyenne Mtn, NORAD will go dark, Sirens will go off, a few towers will topple, and finally a mountain lion farts.

And KOAA is delayed, yet again.
....jc

Has anyone else been experiencing audio drop-outs/minor pixilization while watching KKTV tonight, or is it just me? Signal strength is at 80-90% according to my receiver, which is what makes the drop-outs so strange.

why do i feel so stupid searching for a signal on 42 as if it's really going to get turned on tonight. koaa sucks

OK, we need some people to go on the record here to say that it will NEVER EVER happen.

Count me in.

No flipp'n way.

July 2006 is history and KOAA is still 100% analog.
Never in my wildest dreams did I see that coming
.
I can’t wait for the next excuse.

Just got home from work,,,,,,,,,,,

Turned on the set,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Switched over to 42,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

NOTHING


I don't know why I bothered :(

Canondave,

They actually did sputter out an HDTV signal from about 12:30-12:35a ...
Then, just after that, I guess their system made potty.

-doGlooP

Heh, did anyone see a shower of sparks up on Cheyenne Mountain at around 12:35?

No, but I think I heard that mountain lion fart.
:D

Dear god! IT'S ALIVE!!

EDIT: On the air for over a half an hour now. So far so good...

Dear god! IT'S ALIVE!!

EDIT: On the air for over a half an hour now. So far so good...

Ditto here from 1mi north of Voyager Pkwy and Interquest. HD TiVo has a signal strength of 71. I wasn't going to check this morning until I saw an article on the back page of the Gazette touting the arrival of HD at KOAA. Now for some real HD programming!

--Ron

I just did a channel scan and do not see KOAA-HD at all. I think my antenna may need adjusting. Seems that KRDO is not showing up for me on two different receivers as well.

I am getting the following siginals. I live in FoxRun off Baptist Rd.

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 83
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 58
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 40
26 - KTSC/8-1 @ 40
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 0 (so much for the strongest HD siginal in CO)

Steve (neighbor) are you getting KOAA and KRDO via OTA?

I saw a sporatic signal around 1:30 last night when I got home, max signal strength was around 40 but wouldn't lock around 20 on HD-Tivo. Checked again this morning and didn't find anything. Other stations are mid to upper 80's, wouldn't think I would have to adjust antenna since they're in the same location and KOAA is the "most powerfull signal in Colorado". Hopefully they'll get it stable today.

I see frequency 42 coming in at a signal strength of 70 right now. Doing a channel scan on the HDTivo to get it added to the channel lineup.

I saw a sporatic signal around 1:30 last night when I got home, max signal strength was around 40 but wouldn't lock around 20 on HD-Tivo. Checked again this morning and didn't find anything. Other stations are mid to upper 80's, wouldn't think I would have to adjust antenna since they're in the same location and KOAA is the "most powerfull signal in Colorado". Hopefully they'll get it stable today.

SO KRDO is in the 80s for you. Hmmm, My antenna must have slipped out (I hope so). I was getting KRDO fine and now it's too low to lock on. Also my KXRM is down to 58 and it was 70s-80 before.

OK, here is what I got (Rockrimmon):

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 71
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 91
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 92
26 - KTSC/8-1 @ 89
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 71

All channels come in but KOAA is very badly pixelated with frequent freezes and low audio.

So now we wait for football? I checked the tv guide and haven't found anything of interest yet. Maybe Jay Leno.

I checked at 12:15 last night and no luck. Waited an hour later and I finally got the KOAA signal! BUTTTT, it's the crappiest signal strength. Here's what my numbers are:

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 94
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 84-88
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 88
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 66-72

KOAA has constant pixelation issues and freezes this morning also. Urghhh, I hope it improves. I don't want to sacrifice my other settings.

I don't see it mapped to 705 or any other channel on Adelphia/Comcast yet...

I appreciate those posting their signal strengths, this is great info to daig the new KOAA-HD signal. Can I ask that you also include your general location (not address) in town? Thx.

So now we wait for football? I checked the tv guide and haven't found anything of interest yet. Maybe Jay Leno.


What? A Law and Order rerun in HD not good enough for you? :D

Well, last night their signal was coming in at around 90% for me. Now today, all I get is a "Searching For Signal" message when I tune to KOAA.

Just talked to Harold at KOAA 5-1 they will have The signal back on in about an hour or so. He told me thay are making some adjustment to the system.

Anyone been able to check Adelphia again to see if they have the channel? Anyone know who to contact about getting the channel added? KOAA or Adelphia? I tried sending a couple e-mails to KOAA this morning about it but got an automated response saying go to there website HDTV section. (which by the way, is still the 06/30/06 update and does not even say they are now HD)

Oh, well that would explain that then. Thanks mrtuneup2.

I appreciate those posting their signal strengths, this is great info to daig the new KOAA-HD signal. Can I ask that you also include your general location (not address) in town? Thx.

I'm in the Cheyenne Mtn Area. Zip is 80906!

So how long will it D* to get the program guide data for KOAA-almost-no-HD?

When KTVD in Denver first turned on their transmitter it took D* 2 or 3 weeks before it said anything more than 'regular programming'.

Hey longrider, hows your signal out here in Elizabeth?

I'm over off 13 & Savage, and I was getting 5.1 in the mid 60's or so. Right now it's bouncing around in the teens. I guess there still tuning?

Anyhow; CM4228, 7777 Pre-amp, HD-TIVO.
COS 11.1 - 85%
COS 21.1 - 71%
COS 13.1 - 82%
COS 8.1 - 71%
DEN 9.1 - <15%
DEN 7.1 - <15%
DEN 20.1 - 0
DEN 31.1 - 90%
DEN 2.1 - 65%
DEN 4.1 - 0
DEN 12.1 - 90%
AntennaWeb says, I should only get 53.1???


Ron

Anyone been able to check Adelphia again to see if they have the channel? Anyone know who to contact about getting the channel added? KOAA or Adelphia? I tried sending a couple e-mails to KOAA this morning about it but got an automated response saying go to there website HDTV section. (which by the way, is still the 06/30/06 update and does not even say they are now HD)

Would be Adelphia, but there's no Adelphia anymore. Calling 800-683-1000 got me routed to Time Warner instead of Comcast. The rep tried to transfer me, but I got a fast busy. She did give me a new number to call before the failed transfer (888-606-0028).

Calling that number got me a new rep in a new Comcast call center (Wichita, KS). She had no idea, and asked her supervisor who said I wasn't the first to ask the question, but he didn't know when or on what channel, but thought it would be soon. :D

Hey longrider, hows your signal out here in Elizabeth?

I'm over off 13 & Savage, and I was getting 5.1 in the mid 60's or so. Right now it's bouncing around in the teens. I guess there still tuning?

Anyhow; CM4228, 7777 Pre-amp, HD-TIVO.
COS 11.1 - 85%
COS 21.1 - 71%
COS 13.1 - 82%
COS 8.1 - 71%
DEN 9.1 - <15%
DEN 7.1 - <15%
DEN 20.1 - 0
DEN 31.1 - 90%
DEN 2.1 - 65%
DEN 4.1 - 0
DEN 12.1 - 90%
AntennaWeb says, I should only get 53.1???


Ron

I am at work now so no numbers but I can tell you AntennaWeb is way off. With the same antenna and preamp as you have and I get good signals on 7 and 9, 4 is usually watchable but not always, and all the Springs stations come in great. I will be trying 5.1 tonight when I get home. Is your antenna outside on a mast?

anybody have trouble getting 5.1 koaa today? I have not seen an HD signal on ch 42 at all -> not once
7am nothing
11am nothing
5pm nothing
5:01pm nothing
6pm nothing

old colorado city, 80904,
outdoor dish mounted TERK HD antenna on pioneer hd plasma tuner

btw, the cbs channel KTSC has never been strong enought to enjoy programming on my setup

Here are my OTA signal numbers via a Dish Network ViP622. Near the intersection of Woodmen/Union:

NBC 5.1: 73
PBS 8.1: 88
CBS 11.1: 96
ABC 13.1: 89
FOX 21.1: 97

Is your antenna outside on a mast?
It's actually about 5' above the highest point of my house(two story). The biggest problem I believe I have, is the divot known as Western Country Ranches! Sort of a line of sight problem :)
I've been seriously considering going up another 8' with guy wires, because man NBC would be nice!

'zbender' the last time I saw a usable signal was last night (mid to upper 60's), it's been poking around in the teens since I checked around 3:30PM today.

It's actually about 5' above the highest point of my house(two story). The biggest problem I believe I have, is the divot known as Western Country Ranches! Sort of a line of sight problem :)
I've been seriously considering going up another 8' with guy wires, because man NBC would be nice!

'zbender' the last time I saw a usable signal was last night (mid to upper 60's), it's been poking around in the teens since I checked around 3:30PM today.
thanks ron, glad to know it's not my setup

30th & Colorado, 80904
7:15pm - during heavy rain
KRDO 13.1 83
KKTV 21.1 81
KTSC 11.1 10
PBS 8.1 70
KOAA 5.1 ZERO

I sent an request to add KOAA on Adelphia's "contact us" page this morning (so it probably went somewhere into the ether). Actually, it looks like they were busy doing more important things today :rolleyes: - I noticed mid afternoon that the guide menu no longer said "Moxi by Adelphia" but "moxi by digeo" instead.

Actually, the Springs TV talk blog said something about Comcast having a few issues with adding the channel and that it should be mapped in a few days. We shall see...

-Kelly

Anyone been able to check Adelphia again to see if they have the channel? Anyone know who to contact about getting the channel added? KOAA or Adelphia? I tried sending a couple e-mails to KOAA this morning about it but got an automated response saying go to there website HDTV section. (which by the way, is still the 06/30/06 update and does not even say they are now HD)

Well I was up on the roof about 6:30 in the rain and lightning (yeah I'm nuts) to see if I could get a better siginal. I did get KRDO back to 62 siginal level, up from 40. Here's what I have now. (Baptist/FoxRun)

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 89
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 71
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 62
26 - KTSC/8-1 @ 54
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ Zip

So each one improved a bit, except KOAA.

I really need a longer antenna mast to just get it above my roof line. I am currently bumping into the house with my current install and have limited rotate options.

No idea why I see nadda on KOAA. Are they just weak/spoty or is it my install?

Here is a good link:
http://www.adelphiapowerpage.com/synacor/contact_us/

This lets you email Adelphia. I made sure to contact as many departments that were even moderately related to getting KOAA assigned a channel.

Now the question is whether or not this is going to the correct Comcast counterparts. Probably not. Comcast's online system doesnt recognize me yet as a customer.

From the Black Forest at 8:45 PM Tuesday:

KOAA: 82%
KTSC: 94%
KRDO: 96%
KKTV: 96%
KXRM: 92%

I actually got a response via e-mail:

Unfortunately at this time this department is unable to pull up that information. However, our cable television department should be able to answer that.

You can speak with one of our Customer Support Specialists 24 hour a day, 7 days a week at 1-866-489-6811. I hope this helps you get the answer to your question, Kelly.

Thank you for choosing Adelphia, we appreciate your service.

Sincerely,

Cassandra D
Adelphia Customer Care Specialist


Unfortunately I don't have time to call the toll free number- Anyone want to call for all of us ??

From the Black Forest at 8:45 PM Tuesday:

KOAA: 82%
KTSC: 94%
KRDO: 96%
KKTV: 96%
KXRM: 92%

Dang, that's impressive. How high is your antenna? Are you on a treed lot? Why the heck can't I get those numbers in Foxrun?

Has there been any good-looking HD on it tonight?

does the 5.1 ch from koaa come through in black forest?

signal seems to have dropped again

Roy

Has there been any good-looking HD on it tonight?

I watched a few minutes of "Law and Order" on 5.1 -- looked pretty good to me and my receiver said "digital audio" but I'm not certain it was DD5.1. I usually don't watch "The Tonight Show" but I'll stay up a little late tonight and see how Leno looks. I did a little surfing and I was really impressed with the HD for "Boston Legal" on ABC -- geez, Capt. Kirk is getting old!

TallGuy -- it's time to change your signature to "3.9" channels.

signal seems to have dropped again

Roy

Coming in at 80% here.

I am receiving 5. 1 just fine 2 miles east of Elizabeth. The audio is not DD5.1 .
Signal levels:
5.1 - 51
11.1 - 89
13.1 - 92
21.1 - 87
This is with a 4228 antenna, 7777 preamp and LG 3200A receiver
For ronterry here are the Denver station signals:
4.1 - 46
7.1 - 74
9.1 - 76
12.1 - 89
20.1 - 60
31.1 - 73
For 31 I didnt reaim the antenna, it was still pointed at RP. I compared our locations on Google Earth and you are about 250' lower which explains the difference. Maybe a really big tower??

Here's some more signal levels. I'm at GoG and Centennial, with a set of basic rabbit ears on top of the set.

KKTV - 80
KXRM - 67(this is lower than normal, usually in 70s, i think messing to get KOAA screwed this one up)
KRDO - 82
KTSC - 85
KOAA - 65 (can't quite seem to lock on)

Dang, that's impressive. How high is your antenna? Are you on a treed lot? Why the heck can't I get those numbers in Foxrun?

10' mast on the rooftop with a big old antenna. No amplifiers. Coax is split 4 ways. LOS to Cheyenne mountain passes through a few branches from one tree. Receiving with a pchdtv HD-3000 card on my PC using software I wrote.

KOAA is up to 95% for me this morning.

Does anyone else out there have visibility into the PSIP data in the data stream? There is something odd about the KOAA TVCT data which has required me to put in a (temporary, I hope) special case into my capture code.

compared both Jay Leno and David Letterman lastnight. There both in 1080i, but Letterman seemed more crisp and had better colors.

I live just off Baptist road and just before the trees of Fox Run and I get KOAA at 65-70 on a Dish 811 and the audio is not 5.1 at least not on Law & Order last night. I did not see Leno.

10' mast on the rooftop with a big old antenna. No amplifiers. Coax is split 4 ways. LOS to Cheyenne mountain passes through a few branches from one tree. Receiving with a pchdtv HD-3000 card on my PC using software I wrote.

Thanks Gato :)

compared both Jay Leno and David Letterman lastnight. There both in 1080i, but Letterman seemed more crisp and had better colors.

Letterman's show has always looked better than Leno's show to me, even in SD. Must be the way it's produced.

I actually compared Leno on KUSA to Leno on KOAA last night, and I have to say the one on KOAA looked much better to me. Probably because KOAA isn't broadcasting the stupid Weather Plus sub channel, but I'm sure that'll change soon.

I think I read one time that Law & Order isn't produced in 5.1.

TallGuy -- it's time to change your signature to "3.9" channels.
Done!

hmm...guess I might have to change my name :eek:

hmm...guess I might have to change my name :eek:


lol, until they all start showing the weather alert 24/7.

For 31 I didnt reaim the antenna, it was still pointed at RP. I compared our locations on Google Earth and you are about 250' lower which explains the difference. Maybe a really big tower??

Yeap, I probably need to file with the FAA to get Denver. As far as my HOA, I need to disguise a super tall flag pole.
I've been envisioning that there's a massive UHF river one foot above my antenna! Just need to tap that well, and keep the HOA off my back.
Anyhow, 5.1 is back up today for me. A little low in the 60's, but looks like weather brewing between us and COS.

I've been envisioning that there's a massive UHF river one foot above my antenna! Just need to tap that well, and keep the HOA off my back.

Imagining that there is a solution just out of reach which you could get to if only you built a little higher leads to madness. I bet if you hung an antenna from a big helium balloon with a pair of tethers (to control pointing) you could run some tests and know for sure. Or, for more money and less fun, rent a crane.

Imagining that there is a solution just out of reach which you could get to if only you built a little higher leads to madness.
:rolleyes:
If you were trying to receive stations from Denver, you might just be locked in a white padded room(see Symbios's screen title). C/S is so easy compared to Denver! :o 2 stations are broadcasting at a decent strength(but below full power), the rest are broadcasting somewhere between 6 - 12kW. And, imagine that you are over 50 miles from that puny signal. Or spending days trying to see if there is a 'sweet spot' on your roof.

I don't have any statistics, but it would be interesting to see how many folk's have plunged off of their roof in despair, hung themselves from a guy wire, or have simply been commited to the local mental institution.

I mean this is HDTV, this is serious stuff!
:rolleyes:

Ok, I added a 5 ft mast to my ant, to get it above the roof line and to give me more rotation options. I've messed with the ant for two days now and here's my signals.

@ = original siginal - adjusted no mast - adjusted w/ mast

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 83 - 89 - 90
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 58 - 71 - 88
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 40 - 62 - 83
26 - KTSC/8-1 @ 40 - 54 - 67
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 0 - 0 - 19

I continue to make signal improvments, but KOAA is still weak. I am using a DB8 antenna from AntennasDirect.

HDTivo shows KOAA/42 siginal peaks of 49 & 50, but it is mostly in the single digits or teens.

42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 0 - 0 - 19

There's something there. I wonder if an amp would help that DB8? Or it might be time for something a little more directional like that 91XG bad boy :).

I'm receiving KOAA on 42.1 OTA. I don't know if this is common knowledge to everyone, but it wasn't to me.


Rob

There's something there. I wonder if an amp would help that DB8? Or it might be time for something a little more directional like that 91XG bad boy :).

I already have a 1in/2out 10db powered amp. :confused:

I'm receiving KOAA on 42.1 OTA. I don't know if this is common knowledge to everyone, but it wasn't to me.
Rob
Yep, that's been THE topic of the past 2 days. Woohoo!

I doubt there at full strength just yet. I'm getting a better signal on 8.1 currently.
5.1 - 20's
8.1 - 70's
They must be defragging there hard drives up there, or someone didn't use a plum-bob on the tower?

I don't have any statistics, but it would be interesting to see how many folk's have plunged off of their roof in despair, hung themselves from a guy wire, or have simply been commited to the local mental institution.

I don't know about bodily harm, but have thought about taking a 12ga to my antenna. Now that I know Denver is not up to power (Not that we need it! Colorado is pretty dang flat?) my plan of painting a texas size tower to look like a tree is on the back burner. Cool, that leave more time for other hobbies.

I doubt there at full strength just yet. I'm getting a better signal on 8.1 currently.

I hope you're right. I am getting 71 right now on 26 and no love from 42. Seems odd that I get 4/5 HD channels at 70 and above. They must be muckin' with things at KOAA.

I already have a 1in/2out 10db powered amp. :confused:
The problem looks to be KOAA, but if this amp is indoors(vs a mast mounted preamp), the 'damage' has already been done, and I doubt that it would help that much! :(
....jc

The problem looks to be KOAA, but if this amp is indoors(vs a mast mounted preamp), the 'damage' has already been done, and I doubt that it would help that much! :(
....jc

actuallly it helped quite a bit. Before I installed the indoors amp, I was getting very poor siginals. The amp gives me 4/5 OTA HD siginals.

actuallly it helped quite a bit. Before I installed the indoors amp, I was getting very poor siginals. The amp gives me 4/5 OTA HD siginals.
I can believe that! But the point is that your signals are degraded by the time that they reach the amp. If it's mast mounted, no degradation occurs(no cable loss). Of course a lot depends on the length of cable from your antenna. A typical RG-6 cable will lose at least 50% of the signal strength in 100'. Add splitters, and things can get real ugly, real fast.
....jc

Is there a mast mount preamp that will work thur a diplexed line?
Diplexing is a must for my installation.

5.1 must have gone full power today, last night I was getting a signal of 51 and tonight it is 84. Also the audio is DD 2.0

Rmassey, if you put the power injector before the diplexer then no problem.

looks like koaa is full power here too. when i called Harold (KOAA) today, he said they did not have it at full power, but 1/10th. at the time he hoped to get it turned up all the way by the end of the day

regarding Adelphia/Comcast in the springs, I got a phone number to call. it's a real number, local here in the springs, and a real human answered on the first ring. name's

Mike Ross, 457-4505.

he said they are working on the HD feed from KOAA and said it "will be 30 days"
hard to believe, but knowing koaa they probably have to build some massive tunnel first, so that they "will have the largest buried cable direct HD feed of any station in colorado"

regarding Adelphia/Comcast in the springs, I got a phone number to call. it's a real number, local here in the springs, and a real human answered on the first ring. name's

Mike Ross, 457-4505.

he said they are working on the HD feed from KOAA and said it "will be 30 days"
hard to believe, but knowing koaa they probably have to build some massive tunnel first, so that they "will have the largest buried cable direct HD feed of any station in colorado"

30 days?!?!? What the hell?

30 days?!?!? What the hell?

I know no one saw that commin'. :eek:

Regarding KOAA last night, I noticed for a brief period that I had great signal in the high 70s low 80s. After midnight I checked again and the signal crapped out. Are we sure KOAA is officially at full power?

BTW, does anybody here watch Good Morning America on ABC before they get to work. It's the only HD morning show I have found!

Just saw this posted on KOAA site, I'll quit fighting my antenna until they get it resolved.

KOAA and HDTV - Updated 08-03-06

KOAA-DT is NOW on the air and broadcasting on channel 5-1, RF chanel 42. KOAA-DT is broadcasting at reduced power due to a problem with the feed line, but reception should be good in Colorado Springs and Pueblo. Rural areas will have a problem receiving our signal at this time, but we hope to have this problem fixed soon. Both Colorado Springs and Pueblo cable systems are currently working on getting KOAA-DT onto their respective systems. Programming will be all “standard definition” digital and we plan to have 4 hours of High Definition in prime time hours, as well as a few HD programs during Late Night hours when it is available. The format (4X3 vs. 16X9) will depend on the supplier of the programs and your receiver, our prime time HDTV should always be in 1080i. For more information on HDTV in general go to the Advanced Television web site.

Regarding KOAA last night, I noticed for a brief period that I had great signal in the high 70s low 80s. After midnight I checked again and the signal crapped out. Are we sure KOAA is officially at full power?

BTW, does anybody here watch Good Morning America on ABC before they get to work. It's the only HD morning show I have found!
The today show will be shown in HD from their new studio starting around the week of September 11th.
....jc

ch 42 is dead at 30th & colorado currently. anybody have a signal? appears it's shut off entirely now

After constant messin' with my antenna, I now get 4/5 channels at or near 90 signal strength (time well spent). KOAA is still MIA for my area. I did get a channel scan on my HDTivo to pick up 42.1, but still too weak to lock on. 5-1 has not appeared once for me, even with 90s on all other channels. This tells me my antenna position is fine and it's KOAA that needs to get it together.

Well, as of 4:10pm today Adelphia/Comcast is broadcasting KOAA on channel 5.1 .
Hope it has staying power.
Rich

On adelphia channel 5.1? Is is not in the 700s with the rest of the HD channels?

Well that 30 days went by fast!

No KOAA-DT on Comelphia here... and yeah, someone needs to check their channel posting -- there ain't ever gonna be a channel 5.1 on cable!

I guess Adelphia folks have to be more specific. My Mitsu 52725 (w/ built-in HD tuner) pulls in KOAA-HD on channel 5.1 . It's remapped from channel 113. If you have a set top box, can't help you.

Rich

I'm seeing KOAA on Adelphia 113-2 with my QAM tuner.

KOAA still isn't coming thru on the MOXI box...
30 days?? I hope not!

I'm gonna do a hard reset on my Moxi and see if it will pull it in afterwards...

^^^ I just tried that before I posted, but let me know if it works for you.

KOAA-DT is NOW on the air and broadcasting on channel 5-1, RF chanel 42. KOAA-DT is broadcasting at reduced power due to a problem with the feed line, but reception should be good in Colorado Springs and Pueblo. Rural areas will have a problem receiving our signal at this time, but we hope to have this problem fixed soon.
Glad to hear this as I was bummed to only get signal strength in the low 50s with my big-A antenna in the attic (actually the measurement is supposed to approximate the 'signal quality' on the D* HD-TiVo). Hopefully will get quite a bit better when they go full power - except not too strong, which also freaks out the HD-TiVo's tuner and sometimes requires an attenuator... sigh... Still love that box though...

Have to start some new bets:

When will KTSC/PBS actually go HD? They are working on it.

When will KRDO/ABC decide to pass us 5.1 surround sound?

I did call this Mike Ross guy today and he said it would be after labor day, around September 6th. So 34 days to go.... I guess that will work for the regular season opener

Looks like KOAA is still having problems. Was watching Windfall with a good signal when it just went off the air - 0 signal Fortunately for me NBC is the one network I can get from Denver consistantly

Up into the mid to high 70's this morning(4:30am), the highest I've seen it yet.
'longrider' you'll probably have 90's :) These 4228's are unreal!

What are the chances that NBC will be in HD by Saturday to show the original Miami Vice pilot movie, which is being broadcast in HD??? Wishful thinking I know...

What?!?! I would LOVE to see that in HD! I never heard anything about this at all.

What?!?! I would LOVE to see that in HD! I never heard anything about this at all.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=699843&highlight=miami+vice

I checked KOAA on Friday evening (August 4) and the signal strength was at 99% (from 73% on Wednesday). I've made no adjustments to my setup so I would assume that KOAA has worked out some kinks and is now broadcasting at close to full strength.

I agree, I didnt dig for numbers but I am getting a good strong signal.

Today's good news - better signal strength from KOAA

Today's bad news - realized KOAA isn't passing 5.1 surround sound either
- KOAA seems to have switching problems - went to SD during Law & Order around 9:35
- KKTV was SD for at least part of Letterman

But overall, progress this week!

I set up KOAA-HD tonight on my HD-Tivo and I'm getting 90 on both tuners, same exact reading as KKTV. I get 92 with KRDO, 91 with KXRM and 89 with KTSC. Antenna still laying on roof where I tossed it.

We finally have full network HD in the Springs guys!http://www.discodelic.netfirms.com/party-cheers2.gif http://www.discodelic.netfirms.com/party-dancingdudes.gif

I'm seeing KOAA on Adelphia 113-2 with my QAM tuner.

Holy crap! Conan in HD! Thanks!

Aside from upcoming NFL coverage and Conan/Leno, about the only other thing worthwhile is SNL. I'm looking forward to seeing it in HD tonight.

What else does NBC have worth taking a look?

Aside from upcoming NFL coverage and Conan/Leno, about the only other thing worthwhile is SNL. I'm looking forward to seeing it in HD tonight.

What else does NBC have worth taking a look?


:D NASCAR Cup Races :D

Aside from upcoming NFL coverage and Conan/Leno, about the only other thing worthwhile is SNL. I'm looking forward to seeing it in HD tonight.

What else does NBC have worth taking a look?

Little else until the fall season starts.

NFL, The Tonight Show, and The Office - that's pretty much it

:D NASCAR Cup Races :D

Yes, I agree, that is worthwhile...

I set up KOAA-HD tonight on my HD-Tivo and I'm getting 90 on both tuners, same exact reading as KKTV. I get 92 with KRDO, 91 with KXRM and 89 with KTSC. Antenna still laying on roof where I tossed it.
You must really be in the sweet spot! My KOAA signal on the HD-TiVo is all the way up to about 60. Seems to lock on OK now, knock on wood.

I'm still in the teens for KOAA with near 90s for all other locals. I still am hoping they are just messing with the siginal when I test my setup.

BTW, stopped by the SoundShop yesterday and asked if they have an OTA setup in house. " Yes, we have one in the front." ..."OK, let's dial in KOAA" - nadda, zip, zero.... right there on Cimmiron and Cascade, about 25 miles closer to the signal than my house.

Edit: just got it to lock (5-1 & 42-1) with signal of about 50. Lots of pixelazation showing on the broadcast.

I still am hoping they are just messing with the siginal when I test my setup.

Maybe, but that would be too many coincidences. I will check all of my signal strengths at 6:15 PM tonight. If you do the same, we will be able to rule out bad luck as the cause of the problem.

Well, I ran the tests at 6:15 and my DSL modem succumbed to lightning at 6:30. All five channels came in with signal strengths between 92% and 98%.

Anybody know what is going on with KKTV 11? The last 2 nights I have tuned in during prime time and all that is broadcast is SD. There were no weather warnings and no HD. I'm a little concerned with start of football around the corner and I wan't it to be HD.

I'm still in the teens for KOAA with near 90s for all other locals. I still am hoping they are just messing with the siginal when I test my setup.

BTW, stopped by the SoundShop yesterday and asked if they have an OTA setup in house. " Yes, we have one in the front." ..."OK, let's dial in KOAA" - nadda, zip, zero.... right there on Cimmiron and Cascade, about 25 miles closer to the signal than my house.

Edit: just got it to lock (5-1 & 42-1) with signal of about 50. Lots of pixelazation showing on the broadcast.


I remember something a bit back about band-specific antennas:

54 to 88 MHz for channels 2 to 6
174 to 216 MHz for channels 7 through 13
470 to 890 MHz for UHF channels 14 through 83

I could have sworn that the technical documentation referred to VHF-low specific antennas being less capable right after 560~Mhz and nearly usless at about 700~Mhz which would cut out somewhere between UHF channels 39-43 (some engineer please step in and correct this train wreck in the making ...) KOAA is 42 ... so, let me know your thoughts on this suggestion, but can you receive ANALOG channels from the same OTA source very well at and above this higher band (Channels 38, & 57KTXU come to mind)? Have you connected a pair of simple indoor rabbit ears at the balun to bypass the antenna?
Most of this kind of troubleshooting is vapor-tech results oriented, but if it helps then great.

-doGlooP

I'm a happy camper, KOAA signal strength is 95 off my Terk hooked to my back fence no less, with all sorts of obstructions, although I do live on Pikes Peak east of Academy, this is the best signal I'm getting from any of the locals. The game looks awsome. So when is Adelphia going to wake up and add NBC HD to the card? They had KRDO up within the first 24 hours, wonder what the delay would be.

Joanr

Try 113.2 to get Adelphia's KOAA-HD

I just checked in on the game - didn't think it looks that great compared to what I remember of CBS 1080i NFL games... sometimes it would even go a little blurry all at once...

Also, I was hoping that KOAA could pass DD 5.1 sound live, since it's not time-delayed on the server, but no good sound for us!

Wait... So you guys are getting a signal from KOAA right now? I'm getting 0% from them, I just assumed they were having "feed line problems" again.

I am getting a good signal in the 80s here in Elizabeth right now and the TV has been on for 10 minutes (I just checked signal level but the pic has been fine since I turned it on)

I just checked in on the game - didn't think it looks that great compared to what I remember of CBS 1080i NFL games... sometimes it would even go a little blurry all at once...


Yeah, I noticed the "occasional blurriness" too, especially just before a replay -- not sure what the cause was. Otherwise, the picture was pretty good although I have to agree that it wasn't as good as CBS's.

It wasn't just us - I read the AVSforum about the Sunday Night Football video production in general, and most of the country didn't see much good in it...so at least it's not really a local video problem with KOAA-HD...

nice work KOAA. nascar and nfl today both in HD too bad both programs were catered to 4:3 screens. that is annoying

This is a great info, thanks. Not sure I follow it all, except that my antenna may have limits with Freq. 42.

I do get some analog via my antenna on 13 & 21. I have never been able to get anything analog other than lots of fuzzy pictures form 5/30 from any antenna in my location. I'll check 38 & 57, but I have my doubts.

I was able to get a lock sometime Sat with signal about 50 and nothing on Sunday. BTW my neighbor is getting similar results with 4/5 in the 90s and very spotty signals from KOAA. He has a different antenna than my DB8.

I remember something a bit back about band-specific antennas:

54 to 88 MHz for channels 2 to 6
174 to 216 MHz for channels 7 through 13
470 to 890 MHz for UHF channels 14 through 83

I could have sworn that the technical documentation referred to VHF-low specific antennas being less capable right after 560~Mhz and nearly usless at about 700~Mhz which would cut out somewhere between UHF channels 39-43 (some engineer please step in and correct this train wreck in the making ...) KOAA is 42 ... so, let me know your thoughts on this suggestion, but can you receive ANALOG channels from the same OTA source very well at and above this higher band (Channels 38, & 57KTXU come to mind)? Have you connected a pair of simple indoor rabbit ears at the balun to bypass the antenna?
Most of this kind of troubleshooting is vapor-tech results oriented, but if it helps then great.

-doGlooP

I saw somewhere that you can buy antennas that are for one specific frequency, like 42, and join them together. It's supposed to be great when you have a problem with a weak signal, or multipath, or antennas from different directions. I'll have to think where I saw that written up. Could be perfect for a situation like this.

Not sure I follow it all, except that my antenna may have limits with Freq. 42....He has a different antenna than my DB8.
No limits. The DB8 is a 'long range', high gain, full band, UHF antenna. Sounds like something else is going on.
....jc

Rmassey,

I guess you are using a multi-directional antenna. I understand that these are fantastic for pulling in signals from multiple points of broadcast. Pretty much everything here in the C-O-S seems to come from Cheyenne Mountain via repeater.
Does the DB8 have 4 "grill" elements with individual baluns? If so, I'd want to allign each element so that the point of convergence is Cheyenne mountain not only in direction, but in altitude (azimuth?).


-doGlooP

Rmassey,
Where exactly are you located? Have you got LOS to Cheyenne Mtn?
....jc

Anybody know what is going on with KKTV 11? The last 2 nights I have tuned in during prime time and all that is broadcast is SD. There were no weather warnings and no HD. I'm a little concerned with start of football around the corner and I wan't it to be HD.


I asked them about that. They said their HD server quit on them the other day. And their working on it.

I also asked them if they could turn the gray sidebars off, because it's annoying as hell. And they said they're on it.

It wasn't just us - I read the AVSforum about the Sunday Night Football video production in general, and most of the country didn't see much good in it...so at least it's not really a local video problem with KOAA-HD...

What I noticed continuously during the game, was a very good picture whenever NBC switched to a new angle and about 1 second later it turned from good to blurry in an instant. Not just the video from the field but the graphics as well. Thought it might be my set, but this all confirms it was NBC.

No signal for me on 113.2 Adelphia, I'm looking for it to appear in the 700's, don't have the Plus Tier. Guess they really mean 30 days......lol.

The OTA NFL broadcast had it's array of problems, pixelation, blurriness, etc. Signal strength does not = quality. I'm going to watch NBC tonight and see what happens with one of their prime time broadcasts.

Rmassey,
Where exactly are you located? Have you got LOS to Cheyenne Mtn?
....jc

3+ miles east of I-25 off Baptist Rd - FoxRun development

yes, LOS to CM. 90s for 4/5. Zip for KOAA.

OK, I'm gonna try one more thing this weekend. One direct RG6 line to my HD Tivo from the Antenna. This will bypass my diplexers. I can see if this makes any difference. This will only be a temp setup, but I can see if I have problems elsewhere in my system.

Currently I have four lines of RG6 running from the Sat & Ant (on roof) to the wiring closet in the basement. I diplex one of these lines to get Ant. into the house. This seems to work fine for 4/5 channels. I just wonder if there is an issue with KOAA with the use of diplexers.

OK, ya lost me on most of that..... (sorry)

Here the DB8, you tell me....
http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB8_HD_Antenna.html

Rmassey,

I guess you are using a multi-directional antenna. I understand that these are fantastic for pulling in signals from multiple points of broadcast. Pretty much everything here in the C-O-S seems to come from Cheyenne Mountain via repeater.
Does the DB8 have 4 "grill" elements with individual baluns? If so, I'd want to allign each element so that the point of convergence is Cheyenne mountain not only in direction, but in altitude (azimuth?).


-doGlooP

OK, I'm gonna try one more thing this weekend. One direct RG6 line to my HD Tivo from the Antenna. This will bypass my diplexers. I can see if this makes any difference. This will only be a temp setup, but I can see if I have problems elsewhere in my system.
That sounds like a plan. Being that close, with LOS and using a quality antenna, the signal should be 'blowing your doors off!'.

I just wonder if there is an issue with KOAA with the use of diplexers.
I can't imagine why. There are a few other things that could be at play, but for now, I would think that it's on your end.
....jc

No signal for me on 113.2 Adelphia, I'm looking for it to appear in the 700's, don't have the Plus Tier. Guess they really mean 30 days......lol.

The OTA NFL broadcast had it's array of problems, pixelation, blurriness, etc. Signal strength does not = quality. I'm going to watch NBC tonight and see what happens with one of their prime time broadcasts.

The 113-2 tuning is if you have a QAM tuner hooked up, not going through Adelphia's boxes. There are a handful of the HD channels that they don't scramble (mostly local network affiliates) that you can pick up with an HD tuner that can do both OTA ATSC and cable QAM.

Has anyone had problems getting Guide info for KOAA HD or Program info with OTA channels 5-1 or 21-2 ? I have called Direct TV several times and talked to their Tech support level. They have had me unplug my pvr , Reset my pvr, & re set up my pvr. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem. The info I do get is regular schedule under the guide info for 5-1 KOAA HD & 21-2 Tube. The only way I receive those channels is If I manually scan OTA to receive them. My signal strength is 92-95.
I have also Contacted KOAA several times they assure me that they are sending out that information.

I too am not getting guide data at this point. It took the other channels a bit of time before guide data became available for directv. Hopefully it won't take too long.

Currently I have four lines of RG6 running from the Sat & Ant (on roof) to the wiring closet in the basement. I diplex one of these lines to get Ant. into the house.

I have the same setup as you and I'm getting KOAA just fine. I'm using the amplified SquareShooter (SS-2000) antenna. I'm about 2 mi East of I-25 and 2 mi South of County Line.

I have the same setup as you and I'm getting KOAA just fine. I'm using the amplified SquareShooter (SS-2000) antenna. I'm about 2 mi East of I-25 and 2 mi South of County Line.

Yeah, I think I may have a bit more trees in my area. Although I'd think that if trees are an issue, it would affect all OTA HD channels, not just KOAA.

Yeah, I think I may have a bit more trees in my area. Although I'd think that if trees are an issue, it would affect all OTA HD channels, not just KOAA.

Indeed. I'm all treed in with no LOS to Cheyenne Mtn. I have the SS-2000 on the front of my deck (~10' off the ground), which faces almost due South. Got lucky I guess!

Indeed. I'm all treed in with no LOS to Cheyenne Mtn. I have the SS-2000 on the front of my deck (~10' off the ground), which faces almost due South. Got lucky I guess!

OK, I think I am just located in the KOAA blackhole in COS :confused:

The 113-2 tuning is if you have a QAM tuner hooked up, not going through Adelphia's boxes. There are a handful of the HD channels that they don't scramble (mostly local network affiliates) that you can pick up with an HD tuner that can do both OTA ATSC and cable QAM.

Yep, I'd have to disconnect from their cablecard to get that, too much trouble, I can get 5.1 off my antenna just fine, but thanks for mentioning. Although, they used to bring ESPN HD and also Discovery HD in on 104 or somewhere around there, it's almost tempting to just dump the cablecard if that still holds true, INHD and HDNET are not that terrific and their CA is always dropping my CC authentication, what a pain.

Has anyone had problems getting Guide info for KOAA HD or Program info with OTA channels 5-1 or 21-2 ? I have called Direct TV several times and talked to their Tech support level. They have had me unplug my pvr , Reset my pvr, & re set up my pvr. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem. The info I do get is regular schedule under the guide info for 5-1 KOAA HD & 21-2 Tube. The only way I receive those channels is If I manually scan OTA to receive them. My signal strength is 92-95.
I have also Contacted KOAA several times they assure me that they are sending out that information.
I have no guide data yet through DirecTV. Does KOAA specifically say that they are sending the PSIP to the right company for it to update through DirecTV? KOAA may be so new to the scene that they think that the embedded OTA data would be read by our satellite boxes, but I don't think it works that way (especially into the future).

It's definitely going to be difficult to record KOAA this way... we need to keep the heat on KOAA to get it together! I don't think it's something DirecTV could solve.

OK, I pulled my antenna from the roof today, mounted it on a speaker mount tripod on the rear deck, ran a 25' RG59 directly to my old RCA DTC 100 in the FR. Bingo :) now getting 76 signal on KOAA. I also see no difference using all the DB8 or half of it (DB4).

After trying many different combinations on the roof monted antenna, I think the bottom line is the length of coax from ant. to receiver is killing me for KOAA. I may just need to mast mounted peramp if I want to use the roof mount.

Right now I have split the antenna (for testing) into two DB4s. One is on the roof, one is on the deck. The deck Ant. has 25' RG59 runing into the HDTivo. Here are the current signal readings for the deck Ant w/ 25' coax run.

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 70
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 90
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 92
26 - KTSC/8-1 @ 90
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 71

Didn't someone mention above that CBS is having issues recently with signal strength. I recall I was getting 90s for KKTV before.

Oh BTW, someone on TivoCommunity is asking about the guide data too. Some folks over there have suggested how to get it going....
Go to zap2it.com
theres a section where you can email them about line ups, it will ask all the info about the provider, station name and phone numbers and so on, tell them its for the Directv HD over the air guide on the HD receivers, in about a week it should come up.
here's the link
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=310418

Thanks for all the tips/suggestons. At lleast I now can get KOAA in the 70s (enough for signal lock). I still would like to use the roof ant. but need to address it with a mast preamp or ???

Cool, we definitely need to get to the right place where someone knows how to set this up.

This was the only site I found through Zap2it.com - is this right or is there a better way to communicate the problem? I sent an email - maybe several emails from us would get more attention.
http://www.zap2it.com/services/site/zap-feedback,0,6935396.story

OK, I pulled my antenna from the roof today, mounted it on a speaker mount tripod on the rear deck, ran a 25' RG59 directly to my old RCA DTC 100 in the FR. Bingo :) now getting 76 signal on KOAA. I also see no difference using all the DB8 or half of it (DB4).
Cool.
Thanks for all the tips/suggestons. At lleast I now can get KOAA in the 70s (enough for signal lock). I still would like to use the roof ant. but need to address it with a mast preamp or ???
Hopefully, the RG-59 was just for testing, and not the cable on the roof?
....jc

Yeah, the RG59 was all I had for a 25' run. I'll get some RG6 to finish things off.

[edit] - 25' RG59, was really 55' - so I spliced together 3 - 15' RG6 cables with barrel connectors (for now) to get enough RG6 form Ant to HDTivo. Signals improved a bit

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 87
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 92
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 92
26 - KTSC/8-1 @ 90
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 76

Still going to try 100' of continous RG6 and a mast preamp with the roof ant. I just wanted to do this testing and confirm my signals before I go $pend money.

Thanks for all the tips/suggestons. At lleast I now can get KOAA in the 70s (enough for signal lock). I still would like to use the roof ant. but need to address it with a mast preamp or ???

I would suggest a Winegard PreAmp for your antenna mount. Be sure the preamp boosts both VHF and UHF. By the way, what type of antenna are you using for KKTV? Your DB8 is UHF only and KKTV is on Channel 10.

Wow, I just saw about 2 minutes of Leno in HD... and then they flipped on the Election banner. :rolleyes: :mad: :(

I would suggest a Winegard PreAmp for your antenna mount. Be sure the preamp boosts both VHF and UHF. By the way, what type of antenna are you using for KKTV? Your DB8 is UHF only and KKTV is on Channel 10.

Well, now it's a DB4. KKTV is coming in at 87.

I may have to bite the bullet and do a decent preamp too...the Radio Shack adjustable gain amp in my equipment room is probably not the greatest... :) Seemed to me that KOAA dipped in strength last night - has been around 60 for me and last night was around 50 and breaking up...ugh

Also still no KKTV in HD last night...we're going backwards

if it helps anyone I have a cheap terk HD antenna ( ~$40) sitting up in the attic of garage,
close to 100' of coax between it and my dish recvr and get around 90 signal strength
for all the channels. except pbs but that is only a little less and never a problem.
the antenna comes with a preamp which I have on the recvr end not the antenna
end of the coax. (no outlet in attic)
I live powers&stetson hills with mostly nonblocked LOS to the cheyenne antenna complex.
a little bit of another house roof in the way. and of course my roof since its an indoor antenna.
I do get some issue when heavy rain clouds get in the way but otherwise fine.

I'm looking to buy a mast mount preamp. I'd rather buy locally in case it does not affect my system, so I can return it.

Which ones are worth my time and money?

RS 15-2507 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094&cp=&pg=5&y=8&origkw=antenna&kw=antenna&x=19&numProdsPerPage=20&parentPage=search)

Antennas Direct Pre-amps (http://www.antennasdirect.com/antenna_amplifier.html)

Where can I find the Winegard PreAmp suggested above.

Does anyone sell these locally with a good return policy. I don't are about a $10-20 difference in price.

Does anyone sell white unterminated (needed for interior installation) RG6 in town. I went to HD and they have black unterminated and white terminated RG6. Looks like you pay about $10 more of the terminated lines. I already have a coax cripper tool and would rather $ave.

I'm looking to buy a mast mount preamp. I'd rather buy locally in case it does not affect my system, so I can return it.

Which ones are worth my time and money?

RS 15-2507 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094&cp=&pg=5&y=8&origkw=antenna&kw=antenna&x=19&numProdsPerPage=20&parentPage=search)

Antennas Direct Pre-amps (http://www.antennasdirect.com/antenna_amplifier.html)

Where can I find the Winegard PreAmp suggested above.

Does anyone sell these locally with a good return policy. I don't are about a $10-20 difference in price.

Does anyone sell white unterminated (needed for interior installation) RG6 in town. I went to HD and they have black unterminated and white terminated RG6. Looks like you pay about $10 more of the terminated lines. I already have a coax cripper tool and would rather $ave.


The RS unit you listed above looks very similiar to my Winegard so it's a good possibility it is made by them for RS.

I'm looking to buy a mast mount preamp. I'd rather buy locally in case it does not affect my system, so I can return it.
Rat Shack preamps have high noise(bad), and I'm not sure where a decent one can be purchased other than out-o-town. I'd try Solid Signal (http://www.solidsignal.com) , they do have a return policy.
Which ones are worth my time and money?
Channel Master & Winegard usually are the preferred brands. Also remember that you don't need a ton of power. That could make things worse. You may need an attenuator with some preamps to reduce the output.

Does anyone sell white unterminated (needed for interior installation) RG6 in town. I went to HD and they have black unterminated and white terminated RG6. Looks like you pay about $10 more of the terminated lines. I already have a coax cripper tool and would rather $ave.
I've got some, but I live in WP. You might contact Liberty Wire & Cable at 260-0061. They are off of Voyager Parkway up North by you.
....jc

thanks for the info jc. Never heard of Liberty Wire & Cable, I'll contact them.

New HR10-250 user here; I get around 80 SS on 42 (north Black Forest), repeated a scan for OTA channels, made sure the guide was set to show ALL channels, but I cannot get 5.1 or 42.1 to show up in the guide. The only way I can view the content is by entering 42-1 directly from the remote. Any advice?

thanks for the info jc. Never heard of Liberty Wire & Cable, I'll contact them.
I believe that they are normally wholesale, so dream up a company name. They s/b able to cut you a custom length.

Good Luck!
....jc

The only way I can view the content is by entering 42-1 directly from the remote. Any advice?
Check both your 'Channels you receive and 'Favorites' and/or flip the channel guide over to All channels. Once I finally got a siginal, I did a Channel scan and it showed up on my HR10-250 fine.

I'm looking to buy a mast mount preamp. I'd rather buy locally in case it does not affect my system, so I can return it.

Which ones are worth my time and money?

RS 15-2507 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094&cp=&pg=5&y=8&origkw=antenna&kw=antenna&x=19&numProdsPerPage=20&parentPage=search)

Antennas Direct Pre-amps (http://www.antennasdirect.com/antenna_amplifier.html)

Where can I find the Winegard PreAmp suggested above.

Does anyone sell these locally with a good return policy. I don't are about a $10-20 difference in price.


The PA-17 from Antennas Direct looks fine. You should only need 15db to 20db boost at the most.

I got my Winegard from Warren Electronics, this page;

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/hdtv_preamps.htm

I'd suggest this one;

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/ap2870.htm


I live in Florence with no LOS to Chy. Mtn. and a 100 ft RG-6 cable run, so I got this one;

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/ap8275.htm


With no LOS I'm able to get low 70's on all 5 of our local DTV stations with a good Channel Master VHF/UHF antenna.

Good Luck

Yeah, I like the PA-17. If I order online (likely), I'll prob get that one. I've dealt with AD before and had good results/service.

For now, I will try one direct 100' RG-6 line from Ant to HDTivo and see what signals I get. Yesterday I was muckin' about with some RG59 and this was still causing me issues. I also think my diplexers are casuing me too much signal loss, so I am working on rewiring to elimate the need for those. if signals are still an issue I'll order the PA-17. Thanks for the links and info.

I feel a story coming on...

I made the mistake of getting a RS preamp 3 years ago. I was somewhat new to the whole OTA HDTV thing, and I didn't know what channels I was supposed to be getting out here. When I first turned on the Samsung Sir-T100 which I paid WAY too much for on ebay, it did a scan and found three channels. And I just assumed that's all I could get way out here in the sticks, and left it at that.

So I lived with it, until last year when the three channels I could get slowly started breaking up more and more frequently. I did some diagnosing and found it was that damn RS preamp dying on me! I took it out of the system, and suddenly those three channels were coming in at full strength plus I was getting two more!

That amp was basically a $60 attenuator. If only I had JC to tell me not to get one 3 years ago...

I bought a CM 3044 distribution amp to replace it, and couldn't be happier with it. I bought it from Solid Signal, which is a great company BTW. They had it to me in three days, and that was just with standard shipping!

It's interesting to see that Solid Signal resells Antennas Direct hardware? Why not just go to the source?

.... actually, looks they are $1 cheaper on the price and shipping = $2 savings :)

It's interesting to see that Solid Signal resells Antennas Direct hardware? Why not just go to the source?

'Cause, I guess because they sell more brandolas? :p
....jc

I ran 100' of new continuous RG-6 from Ant. to HDTivo with much better signals :)

10 - KKTV/11-1 @ 91
22 - KXRM/21-1 @ 92
24 - KRDO/13-1 @ 92
26 - KTSC/8-1 @ 90
42 - KOAA/5-1 @ 80

jc - I should have listened to your advise to skp RG59 ( I knew this, but was jsut using what I had on hand)

I don't think I need a preamp with these signals. :D I just need to bypass my in house wiring/diplexers/splitters/connectors, etc. I removed all diplexers in attic to imprve sat siginals, temp RG-6 runs off roof into HT window until I finish things off.

At least I have climbed out of the KOAA black hole (= my wiring mess).

I don't think I need a preamp with these signals. :D
Jezz, I hope not! I have one receiver that will lock & provide very good picture with any signal over 40%

Enjoy the football!
....jc

I have no guide data yet through DirecTV. Does KOAA specifically say that they are sending the PSIP to the right company for it to update through DirecTV? KOAA may be so new to the scene that they think that the embedded OTA data would be read by our satellite boxes, but I don't think it works that way (especially into the future).

It's definitely going to be difficult to record KOAA this way... we need to keep the heat on KOAA to get it together! I don't think it's something DirecTV could solve.

If DirecTV (or anyone else) is relying on the PSIP data embedded in the KOAA data stream then, for now at least, they are out of luck. I have refrained from griping about this so far because they have been busy getting their transmitter working and I figure they will get to the PSIP issues in due time. I know what many of the problems are in their data but enumerating them would make for a long post. Suffice to say that they currently do not appear to be in compliance with the specification.

I know this because I have written my own program for receiving and parsing the data and it is quite successful in handling the data from all of the other local channels. Aside from the fact that nobody has their clock set exactly right, everyone else follows the PSIP spec.

I wonder, though, that if nobody else's tuners are using the data that perhaps it will never be a priority for broadcasters to get it right.

I wonder, though, that if nobody else's tuners are using the data that perhaps it will never be a priority for broadcasters to get it right.
For the most part, they aren't and, apparently, they don't give a sh*t. I don't receive any C/S stations, so let's take a case from Denver: KTVD(UPN 20). They are showing up as 19-1, 19-3 and 20-1. In fact at one time I was able to tune their station on all 3 of these channels on my Mits. And, at the same time I could not get audio or video from another receiver for this station(hint: It wasn't signal strength).

Yup, they really don't care.
....jc

For the most part, they aren't and, apparently, they don't give a sh*t. I don't receive any C/S stations, so let's take a case from Denver: KTVD(UPN 20). They are showing up as 19-1, 19-3 and 20-1. In fact at one time I was able to tune their station on all 3 of these channels on my Mits. And, at the same time I could not get audio or video from another receiver for this station(hint: It wasn't signal strength).

Yup, they really don't care.
....jc

Without looking at the data stream, I would not be too quick to blame the broadcaster for that particular problem. Your other receiver may very well have crappy software. ATSC receivers have to handle a pretty complex data stream and if you make bad assumptions about the protocol then you will not be able to find the audio and video data you want. Download and peruse ATSC spec A/65B if you want; see how quickly you can describe how to find the four PIDS that you need to play back a program. My point is that the embedded software in your device may have been written by an inexperienced (cheap) programmer under schedule pressure from a PHB. Typical Dilbert scenario.

Anyhow, all of the local stations including KOAA get this part of the protocol right. The portion that seems noncompliant to me in the KOAA data right now is the part that deals with schedule data and program descriptions. You do not need this if you just want to view programs; you need it if you want to display program schedules and information and, perhaps, write your own full-featured recorder.

A co-worker told me he's been getting guide data for OTA on a DISH HD PVR since day 1. What gives, D* & E* use different methods to get guide data for OTA channels?

Without looking at the data stream, I would not be too quick to blame the broadcaster for that particular problem.
I would. It's not just me, it's lots of others, who until recently have never even seen the feed.
Your other receiver may very well have crappy software.
Very possibly. But please remember, crappy software is what makes Billions for some companies! :confused:
My point is that the embedded software in your device may have been written by an inexperienced (cheap) programmer under schedule pressure from a PHB. Typical Dilbert scenario.
You mean, gasp, :eek: an H1-B or even, just say no, an Outsourced programmer? It's hard to tell. The one that works is made by Mitsubishi, and the one that's had problems is made by LG. Of course if there are firmware updates, I have not sought them out.
....jc

I would. It's not just me, it's lots of others, who until recently have never even seen the feed.

Of course you are free to conclude whatever you want based on whatever evidence you think is sufficient. Until I see the data I have no opinion on the matter.

A co-worker told me he's been getting guide data for OTA on a DISH HD PVR since day 1. What gives, D* & E* use different methods to get guide data for OTA channels?Haven't had a problem seeing the data either (E* HD-DVR and HD- Reciever).

Haven't had a problem seeing the data either (E* HD-DVR and HD- Reciever).

So what is the difference with how E* & D* collect and relay the guide data?

So what is the difference with how E* & D* collect and relay the guide data?
The guide screen on my Dish receiver has the TV-Guide logo on it, so I suspect that Dish subcontracts this to them. They probably get the local HD guide data the same way that they get the local analog guide data, and it probably has nothing to do with the PSIP data in the broadcast data stream.

I've got a call in to them about the brackets they're using to force a 4:3 format oREn the off-air digital broadcasts. I previously talked to their engineer and he said they had complaints about the wide-screen format on the analog (SD) signals so they put in the bracketing. But just the last few days I noticed they were using the silver brackets even on shows that should be (and appeared to be) in HD. I think it's ridiculous that they would force this type of signal on us and not allow us to select our own formats. The only way to get a response is to let them (and/or their sponsors) know that we quit watching their news, etc. because of the irritating formatting.

KKTVs HD server went out. That's why you are seeing the gray sidebars on what should be HD content. Everything will be in SD until that server is back up. They said they were fixing it, but that was 3 days ago now...

They also told me they would turn the gray sidebars off, when I asked them about it. They said it was the default setting on the SD encoder, and they just never bothered to change it.

But again, that was 3 days ago... maybe I need to give them a little reminder. It can't possibly take 3 days to change a setting.