I just received an update from Emily Edwards at KKTV. She says they received new HD servers, and they hope to have them up and running within the next few days.

Thanks for the KKTV update - appreciate it

Yep, I'd have to disconnect from their cablecard to get that, too much trouble, I can get 5.1 off my antenna just fine, but thanks for mentioning. Although, they used to bring ESPN HD and also Discovery HD in on 104 or somewhere around there, it's almost tempting to just dump the cablecard if that still holds true, INHD and HDNET are not that terrific and their CA is always dropping my CC authentication, what a pain.

ESPN HD and Discovery HD are still available on 80-1 and 80-2.

I've never been able to get anything on 80-1 and 80-2. I can see most of the others, KXRM and KKTV on 104-2 ad 104-3, weird stuff like ESPN Deportes on 123-6, but can never get a signal on 80-1 and 80-2. Is there anything special you are doing?

OK, Aug 1-12 with KOAA HD and still no guide data for the HDTivo. This kinda blows. I really don't want to set up manual recordings for 5-1. I sent an email to zap2it.com with no reply back. Hopefully by the end of Aug we will be seeing some guide data for the fall season.

No guide data for DirecTV is better then no KOAA HD for Adelphia/Comcast. I have a OTA receiver but that does not give guide data nor can i record or rewind anything and i have to switch inputs to watch only KOAA HD. I'd take no guide data over that any day.

I've never been able to get anything on 80-1 and 80-2. I can see most of the others, KXRM and KKTV on 104-2 ad 104-3, weird stuff like ESPN Deportes on 123-6, but can never get a signal on 80-1 and 80-2. Is there anything special you are doing?

Do you have their analog cable service? I know when I just had a cable modem with no cable tv originally, I couldn't get 80-1 and 80-2 as they were too close to the frequencies they were filtering out so that I wouldn't get the analog channels. Once I added basic cable and they took the filter off, ESPN HD and Discovery HD started showing up.

I only have the cable modem service with them, so I guess I'm in the same boat. Thanks for the info.

August 14th and still no guide data for the HD-Tivo for KOAA 5-1. Has anyone heard here how long it will be until we get it? I don't really care right now but once the fall tv season gets here I will.

Check both your 'Channels you receive and 'Favorites' and/or flip the channel guide over to All channels. Once I finally got a siginal, I did a Channel scan and it showed up on my HR10-250 fine.

Still a no-go on my HR10. The only way I can see KOAA-DT broadcast is to enter 42-1 by remote. No guide entry at all for 5-1 or 42-1, with channel guide set to "ALL" or anything else. I suspect it's related to the PSIP or Zap2It issue that is preventing guide data from appearing, but that doesn't explain why other HR10s at least show the channel in the guide. I've rescanned for OTA channels (it shows acquisition on channel 42), soft reboot, pull-the-plug reboot, and everything else I can think of.

Did you also try Clear all OTA channels and rescan, or just a rescan? This is an odd one, I would expect if you get a decent signal, it would be added to the All ch listings, even without guide data.

BTW, I set up two manual recordings for Leno and Conan on 5-1. Hope they work.

Still a no-go on my HR10. The only way I can see KOAA-DT broadcast is to enter 42-1 by remote. No guide entry at all for 5-1 or 42-1, with channel guide set to "ALL" or anything else. I suspect it's related to the PSIP or Zap2It issue that is preventing guide data from appearing, but that doesn't explain why other HR10s at least show the channel in the guide. I've rescanned for OTA channels (it shows acquisition on channel 42), soft reboot, pull-the-plug reboot, and everything else I can think of.

I had the same issue until I went to Channels Settings and selected the option to Rescan OTA channels. Once it got to channel 42 it "dinged". Only then did 5-1 get added to "Channels you Receive". Still no guide data however.

Did anyody else catch KKTV advertising a new network called MyKKTV? I only saw part of it so I went to their website and saw this

"Using a digital tuner, viewers can receive the signal over the air on channel 11.2. The KKTV CBS HD signal will remain on 11.1. This is called digital multi-casting, and it is an important step into the future for KKTV. With the new affiliation, KKTV will be the first broadcaster in the market to deliver a digital multi-cast signal with network and syndicated programming and local content. KKTV is currently negotiating with local cable companies to provide MyKKTV in their channel lineup."

This may explain why they haven't broadcast HD in awhile ( I know the server failed but it should have been fixed by now). I'm now wondering how much this will degrade the HD football games. I'm not thrilled about this developement.

Yeah, KKTV signed on to be a FOX My Network TV (MNTV) affiliate a while back. I doubt it will degrade the signal much. I sure can't see any difference between stations that are broadcasting a subchannel and those that are not. But that's just me.

I'm kind of curious about what they will do when primetime programming starts on MNTV. It's supposed to be all HD, will KKTV just show it in SD or what? A station can't stream two HD programs at once can it? (now that WOULD degrade the picture, I'm sure)

They already have more macroblocking in their CBS NFL games than most other CBS affiliates in the country - my theory is that KKTV doesn't have the best encoder equipment since they seem to be re-encoding. But they really should turn off a stupid subchannel during Broncos games and major prime time events - most people in other markets really notice the degradation, especially when the main signal is 1080i which needs more bandwidth than 720p. We haven't seen the full hideous effect here yet, since The Tube 21-2 is very low bandwidth, and KRDO SD 13-2 is SD 4:3 and their main signal is 720p anyway.

This is depressing. We should really start a call-in campaign on this at the right time before 24-hour multicasting takes hold. All they really need to do to please everyone is to turn off the stupid subchannel for prime time evenings and major weekend HD sports and events. Is that so hard to understand?

We want HD picture quality, people!! If you make HD look like SD over the next few years, all of us who have invested good money in a theater will be using Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (whichever wins) and saying 'forget OTA, it looks like junk'.

P.S. I'm thinking about both KOAA/NBC and KKTV/CBS, since they're both 1080i. I bet they're both dreaming about multi-casting and double the commercial spots with half the picture quality...

This is depressing. We should really start a call-in campaign on this at the right time before 24-hour multicasting takes hold. All they really need to do to please everyone is to turn off the stupid subchannel for prime time evenings and major weekend HD sports and events. Is that so hard to understand?

We want HD picture quality, people!! If you make HD look like SD over the next few years, all of us who have invested good money in a theater will be using Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (whichever wins) and saying 'forget OTA, it looks like junk'.

I hear you, TallGuy. But do you really think that KOAA or KKTV is going to listen? Most people don't have a clue as to what is a quality signal is and they're probably going to be impressed with "more" channels than they are with better quality. Too bad that they'll never really know what they're missing.

Well maybe, but on the other hand, have you ever heard anyone anywhere talking about channel 21-2, or KOAA's Weather First, or anything-point-2? Even in a big city where they've been multicasting for years, is there buzz on the street about a subchannel? I don't see that going anywhere, especially if cable doesn't pick it up. People like the big budget shows, not the low budget stuff. And as more people get big screens and projectors, they will love the stuff that looks awesome, rather than more of the same. There's already a ton of channels to compete with...be different -- be excellent.

I noticed today that Comcast-Pueblo added KOAA-DT to their lineup, PQ looks ok so far...

Well maybe, but on the other hand, have you ever heard anyone anywhere talking about channel 21-2, or KOAA's Weather First, or anything-point-2? Even in a big city where they've been multicasting for years, is there buzz on the street about a subchannel? I don't see that going anywhere, especially if cable doesn't pick it up. People like the big budget shows, not the low budget stuff. And as more people get big screens and projectors, they will love the stuff that looks awesome, rather than more of the same. There's already a ton of channels to compete with...be different -- be excellent.

I agree with you ... I only hope that the sub-channel/multi-cast idea is a money losing proposition for the local stations. That's the only way that it will go away and not, sadly, for a purist reason such as quality.

I noticed today that Comcast-Pueblo added KOAA-DT to their lineup, PQ looks ok so far...

What channel? I wonder if it will be on the same channel here in the Springs? I don't see anything so far here.

I noticed today that Comcast-Pueblo added KOAA-DT to their lineup, PQ looks ok so far...
Great news.

Now the Adelphia/Comcast KOAA-DT countdown for the Springs is on...22 days until their first NFL regular season game.

What channel? I wonder if it will be on the same channel here in the Springs? I don't see anything so far here.

channel 653, right after KRDO-DT on 652.

KOAA and HDTV - Updated 08-15-06

KOAA-DT is NOW on the air and broadcasting on channel 5-1, RF channel 42. KOAA-DT is broadcasting at reduced power (80%) due to a problem with the feed line, but reception should be good in Colorado Springs and Pueblo. Due to a manufacturer defect in the feed line, a large amount of water leaked into the feed line and now has to be "purged out" over a period of several weeks. Full power will resume after all the moisture is purged out, since water and electricity do not mix well. Rural areas will have a problem receiving our signal at this time, but we hope to have this problem fixed soon...



OK, I think/hope this explans why I only get KOAA at 79/80 while I get 90s for all other HD OTA channels in COS.

thanks to my neighbor/ssmileycos for contacting KOAA to update the website.

Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy are going HD in September. I wonder if KKTV will have the capability to receive it?

Assuming they finally get their HD servers going again, I don't see any reasons why not.

Since Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy are syndicated shows, I didn't know if they needed any additional equipment to receive them or not.

Good news that KOAA has more power to give us. I seem to need more signal.

KKTV has been down long enough - I'm going to have to change my signature again. If they don't figure it out by the first Broncos game, there will be a lot of ticked people.

Tallguy, KKTV was showing HD last night. Now will it revert to SD when they need to inundate us with a weather warning is the next question.

Yep, KKTV seems to be up again since CSI NY was in HD last night. What is the deal with 11.2? Is that already up and running? I ran a scan last night and didn't pick it up.

11.2 should be on the air in three more weeks. September 5th I believe.

KOAA and HDTV - Updated 08-17-06

KOAA-DT is NOW on the air and broadcasting on channel 5-1, RF channel 42 at 100% of our FCC permitted power. KOAA-DT was broadcasting at reduced power (80%) due to moisture that leaked into the feed line but after purging the line Wednesday, we were able to put the transmitter to 100%. Due to a manufacturer defect, a large amount of water had leaked into the feed line. Both Colorado Springs (CH-705) and Pueblo (CH-653) cable systems are currently working on getting KOAA-DT onto their respective systems.

A "Rabbit ear antenna" into your antenna port on your digital TV is all that is needed to receive KOAA-DT in most areas of Colorado Springs and Pueblo. Satellite subscribers that have a Digital TV set, just need to plug the external antenna into the "Antenna" port on the back of the receiver, the LOCAL signal will go to the TV if the Satellite receiver is turned off or the TV/VIDEO button is pressed. Programming will be all “standard definition” digital and we plan to have 4 hours of High Definition in prime time hours, as well as a few HD programs during Late Night hours when it is available. The format (4X3 vs. 16X9) will depend on the supplier of the programs and your receiver, our prime time HDTV should always be in 1080i.

According to SpringsTV talk MykkTV will be aired in 720p alongside the 1080i signal they already have. If thats true it will really ruin KKTV's HD signal.

Tallguy, KKTV was showing HD last night.
Well that's good news, but strange. I'm sure I saw CSI:NY in 4:3 towards the end of the hour. Maybe I had tuned to 11 instead 11-1 by mistake, but I didn't think so.

1080i AND 720p on the same frequency? That's depressing. The Broncos are going to look horrible. KKTV can't do fast-motion sports action now very well, with only the 1080i signal.

P.S. Are there any DirecTV Rockies fans out there? I'm assuming that there's no way for us to get the Sunday afternoon games because they're only on the KDVR Denver station? I know the Rockies made sure they got on all the cable networks throughout Colorado, but I think we're stuck if you live outside of the Denver market and have satellite.

If that's right, who do we complain to? Rockies or DirecTV? Is there anyone who would listen?

Do dish rockies fans count?
sunday games would be nice but I really want all the high def games that keep showing up in
my program guide but are always blacked out in my area.
which Im assuming was just cus theo owners of the denver sports teams are in bed with the
cable company and wont allow satellite feeds of anything good.

Yeah, I'm thinking Dish and DirecTV subscribers are in the same boat on that. And there are Rockies and Nuggets games in HD on FSRM-HD and Altitude-HD, we just can't get them...

Dear KKTV,

We appreciate you informing us of the small streams advisory in Kiowa County for all 3 hours of prime time tonight. However, you must know that there are exactly zero HDTV owners in Kiowa County watching KKTV-HD tonight who live near a small stream. But you did ruin prime time HD for 100% of your HD viewers in all of Southern Colorado.

Let's not do this every night that there's a little weather. Remember, if you don't like the weather in Colorado, we all just know to wait 15 minutes.

Disrespectfully,

TallGuy

According to SpringsTV talk MykkTV will be aired in 720p alongside the 1080i signal they already have. If thats true it will really ruin KKTV's HD signal.


There is no-way they can do that, BOTH channels would be unwatchable.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Do dish rockies fans count?
sunday games would be nice but I really want all the high def games that keep showing up in
my program guide but are always blacked out in my area.
which Im assuming was just cus theo owners of the denver sports teams are in bed with the
cable company and wont allow satellite feeds of anything good.

Speaking of Dish...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060818/tv_nm/echostar_dc

Wonder who the lucky 192,708 are?

Dear KKTV,

We appreciate you informing us of the small streams advisory in Kiowa County for all 3 hours of prime time tonight. However, you must know that there are exactly zero HDTV owners in Kiowa County watching KKTV-HD tonight who live near a small stream. But you did ruin prime time HD for 100% of your HD viewers in all of Southern Colorado.

Let's not do this every night that there's a little weather. Remember, if you don't like the weather in Colorado, we all just know to wait 15 minutes.

Disrespectfully,

TallGuy

THanks. Let us know what their response is this time. Ridiculous to have it up continiously, what ever happen to the every 15 minutes but up a quick blurp for severe weather and that blurp was never for a small stream flood advisory. Bunch of retards.

Oh Snap!!
http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=218cfd0b-0abe-421a-0018-25d1b6509f7e&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

Wonder who the lucky 192,708 are?[/QUOTE]

looks to be that the newer mpeg4 dvr units are safe
ie the vip-622 and its non HD equiv

That would be awesome if Dish ended up licensing TiVo software - I would have 30 HD channels from Dish the next day

That would be awesome if Dish ended up licensing TiVo software - I would have 30 HD channels from Dish the next day

I don't understand how that follows. Would you explain, please?

I just meant if Dish had Tivo, I would be glad to leave DirecTV for Dish, and get all of their HD channels

Looking at the Broncos schedule we have two games being broadcast by NFL Net, one on Thanksgiving day. I don't get NFL Net, are these games going to be available on any other network or will I have to subscribe to extended tier Adelphia digital to get these?

I heard a podcast talking about this issue - it's possible (likely?) that the NFL will require the home market's games to be on free TV... don't know where to find out for sure now...

Then HD is a different question. Will NFL Network produce it in HD? Then DirecTV may or may not carry that program on one of their special events channels (like 95). Then would the local CBS or whoever may get to carry that Broncos game be able to get the HD feed and send it to us?

Too confusing...

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Please email me at: beatboy77@yahoo.com if interested.

~Josh

Looking at the Broncos schedule we have two games being broadcast by NFL Net, one on Thanksgiving day. I don't get NFL Net, are these games going to be available on any other network or will I have to subscribe to extended tier Adelphia digital to get these?
More than likely. There are always local rights to an NFL game. So, maybe it'll be KOAA. However, whether it'll be an HD feed is another question.

Then HD is a different question. Will NFL Network produce it in HD? Then DirecTV may or may not carry that program on one of theiir special events channels (like 95). Then would the local CBS or whoever may get to carry that Broncos game be able to get the HD feed and send it to us?
There is no doubt that NFL network will produce it in HD. No doubt. Yes, I would assume that D* will carry the game on channel 95 or 96. However, it could get blacked out on 95/96 due to the local rights that KOAA/KKTV? may have.

So, I'm afraid that some of us, may just be able to receive the game in SD. Even if the local channel is allowed to carry the game in HD, those of us that can't receive the local HD signal, will be left with SD.
....jc

Well KKTV seems to be having more problems today, or maybe CBS nationally. The PGA championship was SD 4:3 for the first 18 minutes, and then went to HD with no audio from the announcers. Probably the whole center channel is out, I think (not sure because while I'm watching the OTA feed on my desktop PC, I don't know whether this new software is sending stereo audio or 5.1...)

I actually am enjoying the coverage without the talking heads. You still get the crowd noise and the sound of the club making contact. Reminds me of how HDNet does their "Sounds of the Game" segment for their NHL broadcasts.

That's true, in a way. This would be perfect for a Sunday afternoon nap. Except that I'll want to see the Tiger/Phil/Chris/etc. showdown in some conscious state.

I left a voice mail for the Engineering guy whose phone answers "option 6" on the KKTV main phone line. I'm sure they'll get right on it. :rolleyes:

Fixed!

Nice... NBC 5-1 has beach volleyball in HD...suprising!

Ugh... KKTV found another rising stream alert somewhere in Colorado that we just HAD to know about...

Good to hear that KOAA HD will be coming to Adelphia/Comcast in time for football!

Glad CBS finally fixed the picture and sound issues. I wonder if it was a national issue or just a local KKTV issue?

Now, if we can only convince CBS to buy more HD cameras so that half the shots at the PGA aren't still in SD :( Is it still a technical issue to not have portable HD cameras, or is it just a cost issue?

Edited: And yes, these continuous "Small Stream Advisory" messages are *really* annoying! I'll bet if I measure the percentage of the PGA today that was actually in HD without picture or sound problems, it's probably less than 50%. They need to upgrade their system to overlay the HD signal instead of switching to SD all the time. I'll have to send me own email to KKTV to complain. Maybe if they hear from enough of us...oh wait...they'll still just ignore us.

Sorry for the delayed post, but I'm watching the PGA on the DVR delayed by a couple of hours.

Reading the national AVS thread about the PGA broadcast, the picture and sound issues were not national, they were local. Good for us.

The golf broadcast threads discuss the SD cameras every time - it's technically cost-prohibitive to have mobile HD cameras because they're wireless and would have to transmit a gigawatt-terabyte (whatever) of information through the air... someday it will happen. So the fixed cameras are HD and the mobile ones on the course are SD widescreen. Better than SD 4:3 anyway... CBS stills puts a lot of money into their golf broadcasts so I've decided to live with it...

Hello All,
Is anyone else noticing the Bronco game on CBS is in HD but not 16:9 :mad: ? It appears to be 4:3 complete with grey bars on the sides. If we all are experiencing this does anyone know if CBS is planning on having the regular season broadcast this way? I'm really trying to hold off on getting NFL Sunday Ticket with HD but I have to have my Broncos and now I've been spoiled by HD.
Thanks for all the quality information provided on this forum!
Matt

this is nuts. can't believe i'm watching the first bronco's game in SD, or can i? only in the springs

I just meant if Dish had Tivo, I would be glad to leave DirecTV for Dish, and get all of their HD channels

TallGuy, why don't you switch to Dish now? HUGE 3 tuner HD DVR, 30 HD Channels, what more could you get elsewhere? and WHY DirecTV?

Sunday Ticket is why I have DirecTV.

Hello All,
Is anyone else noticing the Bronco game on CBS is in HD but not 16:9 :mad: ? It appears to be 4:3 complete with grey bars on the sides. If we all are experiencing this does anyone know if CBS is planning on having the regular season broadcast this way?
No. And, this is a locally produced game(KCNC - Denver), so I'm not sure that it is in HD.

this is nuts. can't believe i'm watching the first bronco's game in SD, or can i? only in the springs
:rolleyes:
Uh, this is a meaningless preseason game.
....jc

I think it's understandable that a preseason Broncos game produced by Denver's affiliate Channel 4 doesn't have the budget or the sophistication to pull off HD for a small audience... When the regular season hits, it will be the national CBS production, and usually the Broncos are picked as one of the top 3 CBS games of the week which gets the HD treatment. The Springs and KKTV have no impact on this game this week.

Also Sunday Ticket wouldn't apply to the Broncos games - they'd always be blacked out here so we can be required to watch our local affiliate for our local team.

TallGuy, why don't you switch to Dish now? HUGE 3 tuner HD DVR, 30 HD Channels, what more could you get elsewhere? and WHY DirecTV?
I've been a Tivo snob/Tivo evangelist since 2000 - even my 7 year old learned how to use it when she was about 4... I'm sure the other DVRs out there are getting better since I've checked them out, but the DVRs from Adelphia, Comcast and Dish that I've tried (a while back) didn't compare well...

I'm definitely keeping the door open to Dish, but think I'll wait and see what the new DirecTV MPEG-4 satellites in 2007 bring to the table. Yeah, we'll lose TiVo there too :mad: but maybe DirecTV will be able to produce most of their plans of up to 150 national HD channels (once that many are launched). We'll see.

I think it's understandable that a preseason Broncos game produced by Denver's affiliate Channel 4 doesn't have the budget or the sophistication to pull off HD for a small audience...
Actually, last year, they actually did produce one of the preseason games in HD. It was pretty nice, but that was the only time! :(
....jc

TallGuy, why don't you switch to Dish now? HUGE 3 tuner HD DVR, 30 HD Channels, what more could you get elsewhere? and WHY DirecTV?

Well, you just mentioned one of the problems with the Dish HD-DVR. Only 1 OTA tuner.http://www.discodelic.netfirms.com/silly-nope.gif That reason alone would keep me away from Dish. Plus my HR10-250's huger. I've got a 400gb drive in there now. :p I love being able to upgrade the hard drives in the Tivos. You're 100% right about Directv's pathetic HD channel lineup though.

Well, you just mentioned one of the problems with the Dish HD-DVR. Only 1 OTA tuner.http://www.discodelic.netfirms.com/silly-nope.gif That reason alone would keep me away from Dish. Plus my HR10-250's huger. I've got a 400gb drive in there now. :p I love being able to upgrade the hard drives in the Tivos. You're 100% right about Directv's pathetic HD channel lineup though.

Right on all accounts... I completely agree.

E* only offes one OTA tuner (deal breaker for me)
D* HDTivio is upgradable
D* has pathetic HD channel lineup

I mostly use my HDTivo for HD OTA recording, the rest is just filler to me. I called to cancel the HD pkg last week and they offered me four free months and all movie channels too. Sure why not.... Next time I'll just go online and cancel to avoid the freeby temptations.

I wish COS would get it together with HD locals.... need guide data for KOAA, need to get the weather bug stopped for a little rain.

Well this past weekend was one of the few ones I just sat home and watched sports all day. I was quite impressed with KOAA as they had the Dew Action Sports Extreme Bike Competition, Beach Volleyball, NFL football, and even Woman's Gymnastics in HD yesterday. Normally I wouldn't watch any of those, but they looked great. KKTV did an okay job with the PGA, but I did experience the same hiccups as everyone else. Was also surprised to see the Teen Choice awards in HD on FOX. Man I can't wait for the fall season to start! Prison Break on tonight! :D

If the Teen Choice Awards were in HD then I'm selling my TV -- it looked terrible! It had to be 16x9 SD (I believe this was confirmed in the HD Programming forum)...

Anyone watching Prison Break on KXRM? It doesn't seem to be broadcasting correctly in HD

You're right - all our stations have been messing up one thing or another lately - we can't get them all working at the same time... Nice use of widescreen for just the blue "21" logo...

Fox 21 did show 16*9 for part of Vanished last night. Ok, it was the last minute of the show but hey they did show it in 16*9.

This is the only email I could find for KXRM: info@kxrm.com
Just sent them an email asking what the deal was last night.
Wouldn't hurt to have others do so also just so they know there is a large group of us HD viewers out here. :)

I also sent an email to KKTV yesterday complaining about the weather warning being on ALL the time when there are weather issues rather than just having it on for a minute or two and then off for 5-10 minutes. Here is the response I got, rather quickly actually:


Unless it is a life threatening situation, we will usually take the warning out of HD during prime time. I apologize if this hasn't happened as regularly as I've planned, but will try to be more conscious of this in the future. Thanks for you concerns.

Sincerely,
Brian Bledsoe


Let's hope Brian sticks to his word!

Let's hope.

Although they still haven't removed the gray bars yet, even after I sent them two emails about it, and they promised they would both times...

All I have DTV and have recently lost my KKTV OTA signal. I tested it last night and I am sitting around 30-35. I am sitting around 65-70 on the rest of the OTA HD channels in Colorado Springs. I am thinking that my amplified outdoor HD antenna might be too low on my house. I live just east of Peterson Road in between Constitution and North Carefree with a clear view of Cheyenne Mountain. What do you guys think? Where should be signal be? I use to receive it and now nothing but I am getting everything else?

In case you live in an area that can get Denver locals on DBS:

Denver, CO - Satellite

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=709744

See you there!
-Tim

Broncos game to be shown on NFL Network only in the Colorado Springs market this weekend - and maybe the Thanksgiving Broncos game too:

http://springstvtalk.blogspot.com/2006/08/broncos-game-goes-digital-digital.html

Broncos game to be shown on NFL Network only in the Colorado Springs market this weekend - and maybe the Thanksgiving Broncos game too:

That is interesting. So, I guess that we can forget D* channels 95 & 96. :( Or can we? 1 thing that is different between the Fox stations(KDVR & KXRM) is that KDVR is Fox O & O. Hmmm. Something that I didn't see mentioned was whether KDVR will be given the HD feed.

Yea, and unless D* starts carrying the NFL network in HD(fulltime), I would guess that Thanksgiving will be the same mess.

Luckily, KDVR tweaked their HD antenna about 6 months ago, and many people up here(Teller county) can now receive them.
....jc

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14482979/

Sorry - I just saw that this was a front page article in the Gazette (same story as Frank's link).

I do guess there's a decent chance that D* would put the Thanksgiving game on 95 or 96 in HD - that would be a huge game nationally, people in turkey comas who can't get off the couch, with only one game on right then. And it may work to our benefit that we're not in the primary (Denver) DMA - because Denver would probably have 95/96 blacked out to force you to watch Fox/KDVR.

I don't think it's an O&O issue at all - the Gazette article tried to explain all the primary market/secondary market NFL rules...but I lost interest...

I went to CBS' NFL schedule site the other day to see whether we are lucky enough to have them broadcast the season opener at St. Louis in HD, but they didn't list their HD games yet.

I don't think it's an O&O issue at all - the Gazette article tried to explain all the primary market/secondary market NFL rules...but I lost interest...

Yea, the damn rule book is probably bigger than a dictionary! :p
The Gazette article states:
The NFL prohibits cable networks from selling regularseason game rights to overthe-air stations in “secondary markets” such as Colorado Springs, league spokesman Dan Masonson said.
This is pure speculation, but if the rights were sold to Fox(KDVR), and KXRM was also owned by Fox(instead of being independent), then what happens? The purchaser of the 'rights' also owns a station in the same ' NFL market area'.
....jc

I also sent an email to KKTV yesterday complaining about the weather warning being on ALL the time when there are weather issues rather than just having it on for a minute or two and then off for 5-10 minutes. Here is the response I got, rather quickly actually:


Unless it is a life threatening situation, we will usually take the warning out of HD during prime time. I apologize if this hasn't happened as regularly as I've planned, but will try to be more conscious of this in the future. Thanks for you concerns.

Sincerely,
Brian Bledsoe


Let's hope Brian sticks to his word!

And let's see if the stations can stop interrupting shows (like last night on Jeopardy) for useless, I mean TOTALLY useless crap about the Jonbenet Ramsey case. What a waste of airtime, and all of the stations did it at approx. 630p.

I also sent an email to KKTV yesterday complaining about the weather warning being on ALL the time when there are weather issues rather than just having it on for a minute or two and then off for 5-10 minutes. Here is the response I got, rather quickly actually:


Unless it is a life threatening situation, we will usually take the warning out of HD during prime time. I apologize if this hasn't happened as regularly as I've planned, but will try to be more conscious of this in the future. Thanks for you concerns.

Sincerely,
Brian Bledsoe


Let's hope Brian sticks to his word!
Brian is my next-door neighbor; didn't realize he was in-the-know when it comes to broadcast stuff at the station. I'll ask him about it... :)

We just launched our new webpage and invite everyone to check it out. Any constructive feedback would be appreciated. Please go to:

Apex Home Theater (http://www.apexhometheater.com)

~Josh

Looks like KXRM "forgot" that their NFL game tonight is in HD.

Just called them - 596-2100 - but didn't hear a touch-tone option for Engineering...

There they go, the NFL game is now HD on Fox - 2 minutes after I left a message in KXRM's general mailbox - probably just coincidence

Let's hope.

Although they still haven't removed the gray bars yet, even after I sent them two emails about it, and they promised they would both times...

I'd rather have the grey bars than them forcing us to watch it stretched. :eek:

I'd rather have the grey bars than them forcing us to watch it stretched. :eek:

No, they won't stretch the SD content, they will put back the black sidebars, which is what they had in the first place. Sooner the better.

Too bad about the Bronco games, that is what I had feared would happen. Looks like November I'll add the Digital Basic tier to my Adelphia, for just a month...

Yes, they can change the bars to black. They don't have to stretch it.

It's been what? Two weeks now? Still gray... Maybe they need ANOTHER reminder.

Time to fire up the ol' email client.

EDIT: Email sent. We shall see what happens...

Hmm, seems like the NFL Network is coming through on Adelphia 701 which is normally INHD, I'm watching the Colts and Saints right now which was last nights game. Hope this holds true for tonights Bronco game, if not in real time, perhaps a re-broadcast.

If KKTV can't even get their HD broadcasting the right way imagine how screwed up they are going to be with this new MYKKTV (http://www.kktv.com/mntv/) :mad:

If KKTV can't even get their HD broadcasting the right way imagine how screwed up they are going to be with this new MYKKTV (http://www.kktv.com/mntv/) :mad:

They will be multicasting on 11.2, many stations in established HD markets are doing this, but I haven't read much about the effects this would have on the main HD channel, anyone know more pros or cons? Seems it would be cutting bandwidth any way you look at it.

Actually KKTV did a decent job of bringing us HD last year, but last night was a disaster, the darn weather alerts destroyed the game, and they had them up throughout the evening. GRRRR..........

They can overlay moving sat imagery, but they can't overlay a simple text bar at the bottom of their 1080i broadcast?

I was able to pick the game up tonight(now) on KDVR digital in Denver. The game was not in HD! So, apparently, the NFL Network won't pass the HD feed along to local channels(and it isn't on D* channel 95 or 96). I wonder what will happen on Thanksgiving? :(

Anyway, I did notice, after several trials, that the KDVR OTA digital SD feed was a little clearer than the D* SD feed. Hmmm. My only thought is that D* is also limiting the SD bandwidth, just like they are on HD. :mad: The comparison was done on the same receiver.
....jc

The game is not in HD on NFL network either.

Roy

Yes, they can change the bars to black. They don't have to stretch it.

It's been what? Two weeks now? Still gray... Maybe they need ANOTHER reminder.

Time to fire up the ol' email client.

EDIT: Email sent. We shall see what happens...

I actually prefer the gray. Doesn't look as good, but on my RP CRT, it helps the phosphors age more evenly with the 4x3 viewing area.

I was able to pick the game up tonight(now) on KDVR digital in Denver. The game was not in HD! So, apparently, the NFL Network won't pass the HD feed along to local channels(and it isn't on D* channel 95 or 96). I wonder what will happen on Thanksgiving? :(

Anyway, I did notice, after several trials, that the KDVR OTA digital SD feed was a little clearer than the D* SD feed. Hmmm. My only thought is that D* is also limiting the SD bandwidth, just like they are on HD. :mad: The comparison was done on the same receiver.
....jc
Yeah, hopefully the NFL will produce the Thanksgiving game in HD. I still think that E* and D* might find room for that HD game on an extra channel, given the huge Thanksgiving audience.

No doubt that D* has mangled SD channels for years. Most people who compare D* SD to cable SD say that it's not that close. Plus digital OTA SD has benefits too, and is usually clearer and more colorful than cable or satellite SD of the same picture.

I called the stations Friday to get some updates ... will post what they said when I get more time, maybe tonight.

OK, we're close enough to the fall TV season with no progress on DirecTV finding the program guide information for KOAA HD 5-1 that we need to start calling DirecTV about it. I think there are 5-10 people in this forum who have a HD-TiVo alone.

I'm sure once we get to the right department, they would have to have a process for adding new digital channels' data. They've done it for hundreds of other channels, so we need to find the beginning of that line (so to speak) and jump in it.

When I talked with the engineer at KOAA, he said that their OTA signal is properly sending the following 14 days of guide information. I think that works for some tuners, but I'm pretty sure that all the guide data for the HD-TiVo comes through the satellite, so DirecTV needs to get some kind of Internet or database feed set up properly.

If anyone finds the right DirecTV phone number or department, please post it here. Also, after you've called, please post here what the response was. I think multiple calls from the same market will help. We know that some percentage of our calls go immediately nowhere, so let's all call to try to get this done. Otherwise no easy recording for the September premieres! Thanks.

Yeah, hopefully the NFL will produce the Thanksgiving game in HD. I still think that E* and D* might find room for that HD game on an extra channel, given the huge Thanksgiving audience.
More info: Apparently, the NFL Network did not produce the Bronco game in HD. However, some people who watched every nail biting second of this meaningless preseason game, said that KDVR had a few messages during the game that the Thanksgiving game would indeed be in HD(I had no doubts that the NFL Network would produce it in HD). There is still no word on whether D* will provide the game in HD.
....jc

OK, we're close enough to the fall TV season with no progress on DirecTV finding the program guide information for KOAA HD 5-1 that we need to start calling DirecTV about it. I think there are 5-10 people in this forum who have a HD-TiVo alone.

I'm sure once we get to the right department, they would have to have a process for adding new digital channels' data. They've done it for hundreds of other channels, so we need to find the beginning of that line (so to speak) and jump in it.

When I talked with the engineer at KOAA, he said that their OTA signal is properly sending the following 14 days of guide information. I think that works for some tuners, but I'm pretty sure that all the guide data for the HD-TiVo comes through the satellite, so DirecTV needs to get some kind of Internet or database feed set up properly.

If anyone finds the right DirecTV phone number or department, please post it here. Also, after you've called, please post here what the response was. I think multiple calls from the same market will help. We know that some percentage of our calls go immediately nowhere, so let's all call to try to get this done. Otherwise no easy recording for the September premieres! Thanks.


I am talking to a Jonathan at D tech support and he is saying that it is a local channel issue and that the digital signal would carry the guide data. He is also saying that all the HD Tivo does is combine the OTA signal into the TIVO to give us a picture and sound and that no guide data is streamed through the satalite for OTA channels. Then he got his supervisor Brian on the line and had me do a clear off-air channels and then scan for off air. This did not fix it. Brian said he would escalate this to the next level tech support and call me back to let me know what the outcome was. He said it may take a few days. I called 800-494-4388

I don't know if that's true for sure - I read about it back when the HD-TiVo can't came out, but can't remember exactly.

You know, the SD channel for the local channels doesn't include any embedded digital data in it - so DirecTV gets KOAA program info from some organized, digital, Internet-based source, right?

That tech was definitly wrong, I have both my receivers set up with both Denver and Colorado Springs for locals and I get all the guide data (except for 5.1) even though I obviously can receive only one set at a time depending on the antenna direction.

I don't know if this helps you D* people w/ HDTivo or not, but I get KOAA HD through my old D* HD receiver via OTA. I have cable now so it is the only channel that i really use the receiver for, but i have all the HD channels in my guide. I only watch NBC on that receive and since it is live TV, i don't have a reason to check that receiver's guide as i have the guide for SD KOAA on my cable. Anyway...

The point is, i get guide data on that receiver for KOAA HD. It is a Samsung SIR-TS360, but it is a DirecTV HD receive. I just had my wife check and we do have guide data for KOAA.

I asked the question about the KOAA guide data in the HDTV Recorders forum to see if we can get some help on what to tell D* - since I'm sure we'll have to tell them EXACTLY what to do in order to get this fixed. :rolleyes:

The thread is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8321158#post8321158

Rob

Just received an update from KKTV. They're upgrading a bunch of equipment next week, for the new my KKTV subchannel. They're going to install some new SD conversion equipment and migrate to the new HD servers, which apparently, should improve the PQ of 1080i programs.

No mention of the gray sidebars, but I guess it's moot now. Why bother changing it when that SD converter is going to be in a heap out back in a few days...

Hopefully, the default sidebar color on the new SD converter is BLACK!

Well, I'm starting to watch the Bronco game tonight on KKTV and of course, the "bad weather" bar is back. I hope this is not going to be on all night. I also hope KKTV can get their act together and upgrade their technology to support HD weather warnings. Oh well, Colorado Springs has never been the "technology leader" in HD technology, regardless of what the networks say (ahem, KOAA).
KKTV has some competition with all of the major networks up and running now, I mean limping. I hope the subchannels won't degrade their HD signal much.
Until DirecTV starts broadcasting Colorado Springs locals in HD I'm stuck with OTA like the rest of you. I guess time will tell how many sub-channels can be supported before loosing so much quality people stop watching the broadcaster. I have noticed large amounts of advertising on 99.9 regarding this new sub channel so I would expect to see a chunk of bandwidth allocated to provide a quality signal people will want to watch.

Until another broadcast is messed up....
Skibum415

Tonight's game is a re-feed of CBS4 in Denver and is in SD. It looks worse than that, but it's another of those silly pre-season games? anyway.
The subcarrier stuff was a gift to the local stations from the FCC so they could offset the costs for new equipment. It's all about money, as usual. No body cares what it does to the bandwidth and the resultant image we get.
What's wrong with OTA? I suspect you will never get as good a picture as OTA after D* runs it through all their equipment. In any event the D* picture will certainly not be any better. WYSIWYG. :cool:

Regarding the game I dont think its being produced in HD. I tuned in KCNC and the game was in SD and they dont have the problems with graphics overlays plus there weren't any. Had in been in HD I would have been quite upset since 4 was not coming in acceptably and I would have spun the antenna and watched KKTV.

What's wrong with OTA? I suspect you will never get as good a picture as OTA after D* runs it through all their equipment. In any event the D* picture will certainly not be any better. WYSIWYG. :cool:
It depends. If D* gets(or can get) the feed directly from the station, they could receive bit rates that exceed the max the station could put out OTA(ie. > 19.2 Mbs). And, the subchannels wouldn't matter. So, D* would have a better source.

Of course, D* doesn't have the bandwidth now. But they will in the future. However, I really expect(if the 'brains' at D* haven't figured this out yet :confused: ), for them to come out with 'Super HD'. And, of course, it would be an upgrade(more $$$).

But, in the future, both Cable & D*, would have the opportunity to exceed the physical limitations that OTA HD has.
....jc

Does anybody have an update as to when KOAA HD will be added to the Adelphia/Comcast line up? I thought I read here awhile back that it was to happen by Sept 1 but I still do not see it on my channel list.

I scanned for KOAA 5-1 for the past couple of nights and can not pick it up. All of the other digital channels are coming in fine.

Is 5-1 available? I had it a few weeks ago but my box (Sammy TS360) re-booted and I had to scan again. This time 5-1 was not picked up.

KOAA 5-1 is still there, transmitting "Days of our Lives" :eek: right now. I'm 11 miles from the mountain, line of sight through trees, and getting 90 on my D* H20 with a jury rigged indoor antenna.

Does anybody have an update as to when KOAA HD will be added to the Adelphia/Comcast line up? I thought I read here awhile back that it was to happen by Sept 1 but I still do not see it on my channel list.
From Andy W's SpringsTV Talk website http://springstvtalk.blogspot.com/

KOAA HD on Comcast Sept. 5

Just got word that KOAA's high definition broadcast will finally get up on Comcast Sept. 5. If you subscribe to Comcast's HD package, you'll find it on channel 705.
I'll be looking for it on Tuesday. I hope Comcast is better at meeting their target dates than KOAA was!

a little bit OT. Our local Springs Ultimate Electronics store has two displays side by side. One showing Bluray and the other HDDVD. Two different sets, I havent studied rear projections in a while so suspect they have a better set for bluray. But besides that, guess what resolution they had the toshiba set to? 720p.

I'm beginning to think there is a conspiracy for these stores to push bluray more at any cost. I saw the remote on the side of the tv and clicked the resolution button to switch to 1080i. Nicer pic now. But if any of you visit this store look at the lcd display on the machine and see if it says 1080i or 720p. Wonder if they will or have switched it back.

I'm glad I found this thread, it answered every one of my questions about how strange the HD is in C Springs.

I'm beginning to think there is a conspiracy for these stores to push bluray more at any cost.

No conspiracy... I would much rather have something capable of 1080p instead of only 1080i. Image quality wise, Blu-Ray is superior. Soon enough, there will be players that can play both and each format can live on and wont be a big deal. But I wont be buying an HD-DVD disks!

No conspiracy... I would much rather have something capable of 1080p instead of only 1080i. Image quality wise, Blu-Ray is superior. Soon enough, there will be players that can play both and each format can live on and wont be a big deal. But I wont be buying an HD-DVD disks!


I think you need to read this thread :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=718337

That is an interesting thread - I'm going to have to read more of it when I have time. I thought they were both 1080p... there are going to be so many misconceptions that go on, as few people take the time to understand the technical stuff, and it overwhelms most people.

Hmmm... do you think stores promote Blu-Ray over HD-DVD because of ... PROFIT MARGINS? I bet there's a huge gap in how much the store makes. Nothing illegal, but that's the way it works. If the consumers choose HD-DVD, they can still find it somewhere, but they have to really want to.

I think you need to read this thread :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=718337

I stand corrected. That was a good read... Looks like the Blu-Ray PR machine is already winning that front.

Fundamentally, I like the 25GB layer over the 15GB. There is no reason to think the dual layer disks wont happen. Just a case of when. Quad layer may be another story. I would love to be able to store 100GB on a single side.

I wonder when the players that support both formats will come out... The chipsets already exist.

No conspiracy... I would much rather have something capable of 1080p instead of only 1080i. Image quality wise, Blu-Ray is superior. Soon enough, there will be players that can play both and each format can live on and wont be a big deal. But I wont be buying an HD-DVD disks!

Being an owner of both the Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray player and the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD Player, I can assure you all that HD-DVD has much better picture quality. Stores like Ultimate Electronics and even Bestbuy definately have a bias towards Blu-ray right now due to marketing dollars. Even though the Samsung player lists 1080p output, that is a bit deceiving. The player actually upconverts inside the machine to 1080p and send an upconverted signal to your display. The real issue is not resolution, it is the codecs being used. Blu-ray so far has only used MPEG-2, which you may know is roughly a 10 year old technology which is very inefficient. HD-DVD uses VC-1, which is the newest Codec developed by Microsoft. As far as disc capacity goes, as of now Blu-ray has only achieved a sigle-layer 25 GB disc. Where as HD-DVD has been commonly selling double-layer 30 GB HD-DVD discs. There are strong rumours that Blu-ray will release movies in double-layer 50 GB discs by this winter and that HD-DVD will release triple-layer 45 GB discs by this winter, but until either does, it is just speculation.

On the Horizon:

Blu-ray double-layer 50 GB discs will come out. What codec they use is anyones guess.

HD-DVD triple-layer 45 GB discs will come out. Most movies studios will use VC-1 as it has proven to be very successful for HD-DVD.

The two new HD-DVD players announced for shipment this fall will have true 1080p output and also will use HDMI 1.3.

Pioneer this week announced a dual-format drive which will be out on late 06' or early 07' which will play both HD-DVD commercial discs and Blu-ray commercial discs. So if the format war over?


My Opinion:

I think right now (Not looking to the future and what could happen) HD-DVD is by far the best way to go. The Toshiba HD-A1 is available for as little as $363.00 and the picture quality is stunning when compared to Blu-ray. There are more movies available on HD-DVD and Toshiba has been very proactive in issuing firmware updates that address customer concerns or suggestions. In the future I think the two formats will co-exist for quite sometime, hopefully pushing eachother to higher quality products. However I strongly feel that Universal HD-DVD/Blu-ray players will start to hit the marketplace in a few months and that will be that. The format war will really be over.

~Josh

Why has this thread turned into another pissing contest between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD? That issue is more global than local to CS and frankly I don't care :confused: .

KOAA-DT 5-1 guide info is still messed up on my D* H20 with only the title of the programs and no detail. The times are offset by one minute which screws up setting the evening's viewing if 5-1 is included. All other OTA channel guides work as expected. It's got to be a KOAA problem whether they want to admit it or not.

Snuffy :)

Why has this thread turned into another pissing contest between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD? That issue is more global than local to CS and frankly I don't care :confused: .

Snuffy :)


Snuffy,

I think it does become a local issue when our local retailers are deceiving us of the true potential of any consumer electronic device. The example of the HD-DVD player being displayed only in 720p is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I have personally seen this same exact thing happening at Ultimate Electronics and at both Bestbuys. I have also been quoted extreme inaccurate information by the two retailers mentioned above regarding the format war. If we do not discuss these things and riase the red flag, the quality of any CE product will move at a snail's like pace or not move at all.

~Josh

Snuffy,

I think it does become a local issue when our local retailers are deceiving us of the true potential of any consumer electronic device. The example of the HD-DVD player being displayed only in 720p is a perfect example of what I am talking about.


Josh, I'm confused by your comment above. How is displaying an HD-DVD player at "only" 720p a "deception"? 720p is a perfectly legitimate HD resolution. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of HDTV's in homes right now are native 720p units (or 768p or something close). The majority of plasmas, LCD/DLP rear/front projection, and LCD flat-panels sold over the last 5 years are native 720p or equivalent - the only 1080i units are CRT based as far as I know, and only in the last year have 1080p units become "affordable". With the exception of native 720p source material (e.g. FOX, ESPN and ABC broadcasts), I'd argue that at some point most people who own an HD set will have to scale and deinterlace their source material. It then just comes down to whether the TV or the source unit (HD-DVD player, cable box, whatever) does a better job of scaling/deinterlacing. It's certainly not a given that outputting 1080i or even 1080p from an HD-DVD player will look better than outputting 720p when viewed on a native 720p display, especially if the player has a better scaler and deinterlacer than the display.

-Sean

Snuffy,

I think it does become a local issue when our local retailers are deceiving us of the true potential of any consumer electronic device. The example of the HD-DVD player being displayed only in 720p is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I have personally seen this same exact thing happening at Ultimate Electronics and at both Bestbuys. I have also been quoted extreme inaccurate information by the two retailers mentioned above regarding the format war. If we do not discuss these things and riase the red flag, the quality of any CE product will move at a snail's like pace or not move at all.

Josh;

Ok, let’s talk about local retailers. I find it hard to believe that Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics and Circuit City are intentionally trying to mislead the CS public on the subject or others. I have met and talked to sales personnel from all three and find them, for the most part, honest and helpful. The only think that I find objectionable is their lack of understanding of scaling (well put by “mtnsean”) and willingness to hype 1080p (a non-standard HD format), oh yes, and Monster Cables. For anyone to expect these retailers to be the final authority on this complex subject is ridiculous. Consumers should do their homework using this forum and other HD resources on the Net.

Since you advertise (link) your home theater business on this forum, it is possible that you have a dog in this fight. :rolleyes:

Snuffy :)

Josh, I'm confused by your comment above. How is displaying an HD-DVD player at "only" 720p a "deception"? 720p is a perfectly legitimate HD resolution. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of HDTV's in homes right now are native 720p units (or 768p or something close). The majority of plasmas, LCD/DLP rear/front projection, and LCD flat-panels sold over the last 5 years are native 720p or equivalent - the only 1080i units are CRT based as far as I know, and only in the last year have 1080p units become "affordable". With the exception of native 720p source material (e.g. FOX, ESPN and ABC broadcasts), I'd argue that at some point most people who own an HD set will have to scale and deinterlace their source material. It then just comes down to whether the TV or the source unit (HD-DVD player, cable box, whatever) does a better job of scaling/deinterlacing. It's certainly not a given that outputting 1080i or even 1080p from an HD-DVD player will look better than outputting 720p when viewed on a native 720p display, especially if the player has a better scaler and deinterlacer than the display.

-Sean

Sean,

It is clear that when you have a device capable of outputting an image at 1080 lines of resolution and you are indeed outputing it at 720 lines of resolution, you are deceiving the public of that device's true capability. You are adding another step of conversion which is not needed. Here in the Springs and nationwide it has been widely reported that Bestbuy has been displaying HD-DVD at 720p and on mediocre displays, where as they have been displaying Blu-ray in 1080p with superior displays. Before you can say which technology has a better picture quality, you have to do an apples to apples comparison. None of these retailers are doing that. I however am doing that. I have both my HD-DVD (1080) player and Blu-ray (1080) player hooked-up to my Sony Ruby projector via HDMI. There is no doubt that HD-DVD has a better picture quality at this time. Will that change in the future, who knows? The problem is that the Blu-ray group has paid more money in marketing to have a more prominent placement in these retail stores (Which is of course their right) and these stores have really pushed HD-DVD to the back burner and do not seem to display its true capability in a fair manner. All I am saying is to do a true apples to apples comparison. There is no doubt that the majority of people would be more pleased at this time with HD-DVD.

~Josh

Josh;

Ok, let’s talk about local retailers. I find it hard to believe that Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics and Circuit City are intentionally trying to mislead the CS public on the subject or others. I have met and talked to sales personnel from all three and find them, for the most part, honest and helpful. The only think that I find objectionable is their lack of understanding of scaling (well put by “mtnsean”) and willingness to hype 1080p (a non-standard HD format), oh yes, and Monster Cables. For anyone to expect these retailers to be the final authority on this complex subject is ridiculous. Consumers should do their homework using this forum and other HD resources on the Net.

Since you advertise (link) your home theater business on this forum, it is possible that you have a dog in this fight. :rolleyes:

Snuffy :)

Snuffy,

Unlike you I have found the knowledge of the local sales people in these stores to be horrid. Yes, they are polite people, but simply put, their general knowledge in all things CE is abismal. I do not personally or professionally have an vested interest in this format war, however I do like the value of HD-DVD right now. It is reasonable inexpensive and it delivers a superior product.

~Josh

Snuffy,

Unlike you I have found the knowledge of the local sales people in these stores to be horrid. Yes, they are polite people, but simply put, their general knowledge in all things CE is abismal. I do not personally or professionally have an vested interest in this format war, however I do like the value of HD-DVD right now. It is reasonable inexpensive and it delivers a superior product.

I didn't mean to imply that the sales staff at the local BB, CC and other retail outlets are experts, far from it, they are simply doing their jobs as best they can. They sell many brands and models and after getting off from work I doubt they go home and study all that stuff in detail. They are not experts, but employees and citizens of our community. I don’t think they care which DVD HD format wins out as long as they have a job. They are good people, give them a break.

The whole Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD thing is reminiscent of the Sony BetaMax vs. VHS war from way back. VHS won out over the superior image quality of the Beta format simply because they got there first with lower prices and the most machines and media. Good marketing and strategy won the war. Is history repeating itself?

snuffy :)

Sean,

It is clear that when you have a device capable of outputting an image at 1080 lines of resolution and you are indeed outputing it at 720 lines of resolution, you are deceiving the public of that device's true capability. You are adding another step of conversion which is not needed.

See, that's where I believe you're missing my point. On a native 720p display, 1080i/p source material MUST be converted at some point. Either the HD-DVD/Blu-ray player does it, or the display does it. That's a fact. So, if the HD-DVD or Blu-ray player has a better scaler/deinterlacer than the 720p display (which is very likely the case), then the store would be doing the consumer a favor by outputting 720p. Again, this all assumes the demo displays are 720p displays. On a 1080p display, certainly you *might* be able to get a better picture by outputting 1080i/p from the player, but even that's not a given.


Here in the Springs and nationwide it has been widely reported that Bestbuy has been displaying HD-DVD at 720p and on mediocre displays, where as they have been displaying Blu-ray in 1080p with superior displays. Before you can say which technology has a better picture quality, you have to do an apples to apples comparison. None of these retailers are doing that. I however am doing that. I have both my HD-DVD (1080) player and Blu-ray (1080) player hooked-up to my Sony Ruby projector via HDMI. There is no doubt that HD-DVD has a better picture quality at this time. Will that change in the future, who knows? The problem is that the Blu-ray group has paid more money in marketing to have a more prominent placement in these retail stores (Which is of course their right) and these stores have really pushed HD-DVD to the back burner and do not seem to display its true capability in a fair manner. All I am saying is to do a true apples to apples comparison. There is no doubt that the majority of people would be more pleased at this time with HD-DVD.

~Josh

I agree completely about apples to apples comparisons. But you don't need a 1080p display to do that. It's perfectly legitimate to have 2 identical 720p displays receiving 720p signals from an HD-DVD player and a Blu-ray player, side by side. That's not deceptive, that's real world. My point is that whether the player outputs 1080i/p or 720p should depend on 3 things: 1) the native resolution of the display, 2) whether the display or the player does better scaling/deinterlacing, and 3) the native resolution of the source material. Simply suggesting that "1080i/p output is better than 720p output" is a false overgeneralization.

-Sean

See, that's where I believe you're missing my point. On a native 720p display, 1080i/p source material MUST be converted at some point. Either the HD-DVD/Blu-ray player does it, or the display does it. That's a fact. So, if the HD-DVD or Blu-ray player has a better scaler/deinterlacer than the 720p display (which is very likely the case), then the store would be doing the consumer a favor by outputting 720p. Again, this all assumes the demo displays are 720p displays. On a 1080p display, certainly you *might* be able to get a better picture by outputting 1080i/p from the player, but even that's not a given.



I agree completely about apples to apples comparisons. But you don't need a 1080p display to do that. It's perfectly legitimate to have 2 identical 720p displays receiving 720p signals from an HD-DVD player and a Blu-ray player, side by side. That's not deceptive, that's real world. My point is that whether the player outputs 1080i/p or 720p should depend on 3 things: 1) the native resolution of the display, 2) whether the display or the player does better scaling/deinterlacing, and 3) the native resolution of the source material. Simply suggesting that "1080i/p output is better than 720p output" is a false overgeneralization.

-Sean

Sean,

I respectfully disagree with you. To see a product capable of displaying a 1080 image only displaying a 720p image is deceiving to me, especially when the competing model is always shown showing a 1080 image. To me a 1080p image has a lot more WOW factor. It is of course over 1 million more pixels then a 720p image. I will just leave it there. Untill we have an apples to apples example, no true opinions should be made.

~Josh

Sean,

I respectfully disagree with you. To see a product capable of displaying a 1080 image only displaying a 720p image is deceiving to me, especially when the competing model is always shown showing a 1080 image. To me a 1080p image has a lot more WOW factor. It is of course over 1 million more pixels then a 720p image. I will just leave it there. Untill we have an apples to apples example, no true opinions should be made.

~Josh

Of course a 1080p image has more WOW factor than a 720p image - I'm not disputing that. And of course apples-to-apples comparisons are best, so if a local retailer is intentionally showing one product on a 1080p display and another on a 720p display, that's not apples-to-apples, and shame on them. BUT, if the displays are 720p native (and I still contend that most out there are), then having the demo players output 720p is a perfectly legitimate, non-deceptive demonstration, and may even be producing the best possible image for that display.

-Sean

Steering a bit back on topic - for what it's worth, I still have no guide data on either of my HDTivos from D* for 5-1. PBS, CBS, ABC, and FOX all have guide data, including their subchannels. I gotta believe this is a KOAA issue.

-Sean

Of course a 1080p image has more WOW factor than a 720p image - I'm not disputing that. And of course apples-to-apples comparisons are best, so if a local retailer is intentionally showing one product on a 1080p display and another on a 720p display, that's not apples-to-apples, and shame on them. BUT, if the displays are 720p native (and I still contend that most out there are), then having the demo players output 720p is a perfectly legitimate, non-deceptive demonstration, and may even be producing the best possible image for that display.

-Sean

Sean,

That is what is happening. It is common to go to the Bestbuy on Powers and they will have the HD-DVD player outputting at 720p to a Westinghouse LVM-42W2, which has several 1080p native inputs and on the other side of the isle they will have the Samsung Blu-ray outputting at 1080p in to a Samsung LN-S4095D which too has 1080p inputs. This used to happen at the Bestbuy on North Academy too, but they do not even demo the HD-DVD player anymore. A similar situation has happened at Ultimate Electronics as well. Since the media for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray is encoded in 1080p, why would Bestbuy not output its HD-DVD meterial in 1080 since they had a display which is capable of 1080p natively? To me, this is deceiving the public of one products true capability.

~Josh

Does anyone know when Adelphia will add KOAA to their HD line up?
Val

Steering a bit back on topic - for what it's worth, I still have no guide data on either of my HDTivos from D* for 5-1. PBS, CBS, ABC, and FOX all have guide data, including their subchannels. I gotta believe this is a KOAA issue.

-Sean

I just checked my H20 and it has no guide data for KOAA but it does have data for KKTV and KRDO. That has to come from D* since my antenna has been pointed to Denver since last week and I cant receive any of the CS stations. When KTVD 20 turned on their new transmitter this summer it took D* a month to start showing gude data.

I am talking to a Jonathan at D tech support and he is saying that it is a local channel issue and that the digital signal would carry the guide data. He is also saying that all the HD Tivo does is combine the OTA signal into the TIVO to give us a picture and sound and that no guide data is streamed through the satalite for OTA channels. Then he got his supervisor Brian on the line and had me do a clear off-air channels and then scan for off air. This did not fix it. Brian said he would escalate this to the next level tech support and call me back to let me know what the outcome was. He said it may take a few days. I called 800-494-4388

So not hearing back from Brian, I decided to call again. Brian was not available so I ended up talking to another supervisor (George). After explaining the problem again and explaining that Dishnetwork customers are able to see guide data, George's responce was...your gonna love this...

Dishnetwork is stealing TIVO technologies and that is how they are able to pass the guide data onto their customers. At which point I said, "if that is the case then Direct TV should be able to pass the data as well, since you are using the same technologies" He replied with "what I am saying is that if they can steal that technology then who knows what else they are stealing"

Can you beleive that??? He did tell me that he would escalate to the next level and someone would call me back in next 24 - 48 hours. (which is what was suppose to happen last time) He did tell me that this is the 1st they have heard of this problem from CS, so, the more people that can call in the quicker we can get this resolved.

Wow, the "answers" from DirecTV just keep becoming more of a joke...

I tried emailing them about the KOAA HD guide data problem and didn't get anything remotely true from them...

I'm thinking that when I have time to call, I'm going to try the phone number in my notes that is supposed to be for a second-level HD team at DirecTV... 800-695-9251

Also, could everyone who is receiving KOAA-HD 5-1 guide data on their DirecTV HD set-top box post here again? I think someone said one Samsung is working, I think that no HD-TiVos are working of course, but it would be good to know for sure before we call them.

I agree, we need multiple phone calls from every interested DirecTV subscriber here - as only about 1 in 10 of us is going to get someone who has a clue and can do something about it.

I was optimistic that now that the Zap2It.com database has KOAA HD 5-1, that it would flow through to the DirecTV receivers. I re-scanned channels and restarted my box, and nothing. I sent Zap2It.com a message through their web site, since they seem to have control of the database, but nothing yet...

Persistence!

From Andy W's SpringsTV Talk website http://springstvtalk.blogspot.com/


I'll be looking for it on Tuesday. I hope Comcast is better at meeting their target dates than KOAA was!

Not as of 6:30 this morning :(

Not as of 6:30 this morning :(

Yup... Eagerly checked at 1am and again today at 7:30 and nothing... Somehow I am not surprised. Shocking!

One caviat would be that they told me 9/6 when I called the day or so after 5.1 went live. So tomorrow when I look and it isn't there, then I will be upset. Furious will come Thursday night around 6:30

Yup... Eagerly checked at 1am and again today at 7:30 and nothing... Somehow I am not surprised. Shocking!

One caviat would be that they told me 9/6 when I called the day or so after 5.1 went live. So tomorrow when I look and it isn't there, then I will be upset. Furious will come Thursday night around 6:30

Yup...they're sure cutting it close...

OK, so decided to take one for the team and endure DTV's boneheaded CSRs. FYI, the 800-695-9251 number requires a PIN. I was transferred to three different levels of tech support and the best they could do was reset and rescan. They also insisted that guide data is not transferred via satellite. :confused: They basically said reset and rescan is the best they can do and the problem must be with KOAA. Sooo, our brilliant providers (KOAA and DTV) are pointing the finger at each other. No surprise there. :rolleyes:

Well, it only took Comcast 5 weeks, but at least they hit their promised date!

Just checked 705, and (hold onto your hats), I got a picture!!!

If there are any Prison Break fans here, please join me in sending emails to KXRM regarding their problem with showing PB in SD 2 of the 3 weeks it has been on so far!! Unacceptable! This worrys me about what may happen come NFL time this Sunday - it's just a bad precedent to show anything in SD on the HD channel.

The only email I found was: info@kxrm.com - let me know if you find a better one as I never got a response when I emailed them 2 weeks ago about the same problem.

One more week of this and I'll have to resort to calling them - but then I'd have to pause my music and take my headphones off and who wants to do that! :D

Thanks,
Rob

Update: I've tried that email address twice and it has bounced back both times. It worked two weeks ago. Does anyone know another email address for KXRM?

Also, could everyone who is receiving KOAA-HD 5-1 guide data on their DirecTV HD set-top box post here again? I think someone said one Samsung is working, I think that no HD-TiVos are working of course, but it would be good to know for sure before we call them.



I have a Samsung that works for the guide data. I do not have D* service anymore, but have been using my old receiver to get KOAA HD OTA. The receiver is not hooked up to any sat, just OTA so my Guide Data comes in on that Samsung SIR TS360 via the OTA signal. To me, that says says that the problem is with the HD Tivo, not D* as you should be getting the same guide info i get OTA. But at the same time, if it is a problem with the HD Tivo, it being a D* "product" it would still be D* problem...

Adelphcast... I am getting channel 705 KOAA HD today, but my wife says it does not show any guide data either. Any one else with Adelphcast getting guide data? I will try a restart tonight, maybe i'll get it then. With Adelphcast's Moxi, there is NO manual record so we will be SOL if we don't get guide data.

...Adelphcast... I am getting channel 705 KOAA HD today, but my wife says it does not show any guide data either. Any one else with Adelphcast getting guide data? I will try a restart tonight, maybe i'll get it then. With Adelphcast's Moxi, there is NO manual record so we will be SOL if we don't get guide data.

Confirmed. Channel 705 now shows in the channel list (it's auto-selected as well). No channel/guide data though. I'll trigger and update and reboot...see if that helps.

Confirmed. Channel 705 now shows in the channel list (it's auto-selected as well). No channel/guide data though. I'll trigger and update and reboot...see if that helps.

Still no program data on the DVR. My non-DVR receiver does have data however, so it must be a MOXI/Adelpicast issue.

Looks like kxrm is screwing up the HD on House as well.

When is KKTV supposed to weaken their bandwidth when they put in that stupid mynetwork channel on?

It started this evening. If you rescan, you will now get 11-1, 11-2 and 11-3.

11-1 is the regular KKTV-DT with CBS programming. Audio is out of sync.

11-2 is MyKKTV (Showing "Fashon house". My set show it as being 480i signal with a 16x9 letterbox picture, black bars all around.)

11-3 is KKTV-WX, a Weather page with a scrawling "You're watching MyKKTV!" on the bottom.

Roy

Well, right now KKTV is showing 'NCIS' in HD, 'Desire' in HD and some weather channel (which I had no idea about) and I have to say, they don't look half bad to me. I was expecting it to look like crap.

What does everyone else think?

EDIT: Looks like 'Desire' is actually SD widescreen according to my receiver. Well it sure fooled me.

Formerly, the video data for KKTV-HD was about 17900 kbps.

Now:
KKTV-HD: 11000
MyKKTV: 2800
KKTV-WX: 1900
Bit Bucket: 3100

This is a snapshot, the numbers vary with time but these are roughly correct.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the main channel has become trash, but it definitely fails the "every hair is individually visible" test. The quality has clearly been degraded.

Just a quick update on KOAA 5.1 for my fellow frustrated HR10-250 owners. I've been talking to a seemingly helpful guy over at KOAA, we traded a few emails and had a phone conversation this morning. I told him about the situation and he is going to check into the guide data situation. He asked for a couple of days, as soon as I hear anything back I'll report in. He did ask if everyone is having this problem, I told him I'd had contact with quite a few DirecTV customers and that none to my knowledge were getting guide data. We'll see.

KKTV not only has audio sync problems, but on NCIS, the front channels seem suppressed through my Comcast box. Commercials just have sync problem and the other HDTV channels seem ok. Anyone else have this?

Checked channel 705 this morning, and my MOXI now has guide data. Yeah! Props to Comcast for hitting the date.

CSI looked decent last night, but wasn't in 5.1. Should it have been?

Observation:

Our long-standing stalwarts are in disarray - KKTV and KXRM

Our newcomers are performing admirably (for the most part) - KRDO and KOAA

Question, when will they all get their act together at the same time? I'm getting impatient...

KKTV not only has audio sync problems, but on NCIS, the front channels seem suppressed through my Comcast box. Commercials just have sync problem and the other HDTV channels seem ok. Anyone else have this?

I got the same thing. I get KKTV and the other local channels OTA, so it was not a Comcast problem.

Roy

As of this morning, I still see audio sync problems with 11.1. I hope they get this fixed soon. Does anyone know if there is a schedule available for 11.2 & 11.3 programming? I will have to check out mykktv.com and see!

Last night I decided to rescan OTA Channels on my H20-100 to see if the “new channels” 11-2 and 11-3 would show up in the guide. They did show up, until I did the “Local Market” scan with my zip code entered. After that, not only did 11-2 and 11-3 disappear but so did 5-1. Also, I could not access them with direct input from the remote’s number keys. I rescanned, this time without doing the “Local Market” thing and the 3 channels are now showing up in the guide, without any guide description, of course.

The “Antenna Setup” page says, “ If you’re setting up an off-air antenna and it’s already connected, Select Scan for channels to start. Select Local Markets to set up Satellite Reception of guide data for off-air channels.”

To me, this says the guide data will come from the satellite, not OTA as some have said. It appears that the only things in the guide that come OTA are the station call letters and some generic titles for programming. D* is supposed to be the source for guide data or program descriptions.

I assume D* has a lot of sub-channels being added every day and they are behind on maintenance of this type. Sadly, their tech-support people are being fed information under the “Mushroom Theory”.

It is possible that the stations do supply guide data OTA and the D* receiver blocks it in lieu of their version. That could explain why some other receivers are getting the data.

Does this make sense or am I assuming too much?

Snuffy

Last night on KKTV while trying to watch NCIS, there was no center channel audio which made me not watch. I sure hope that KKTV gets that fixed soon. I suspect it has something to do with the new sub channels.

Emily Edwards at KKTV told me they're working as fast as they can today to fix the audio issues on 11.1.

And hold on to your hats folks... they're also working on upping the resolution of My KKTV to 720P. Things could get ugly!

Oh this is just pathetic..... watching MyKKTV at 7:20 pm, they have spanish and english audio playing at the same time with an echo on both audio tracks..... I think this is the program 'Desire' per the MyKKTV website. Too funny, but so sad at the same time.

Still no center/front audio on Comcast box(Moto) channel 654 (11-1) when its in HD during CSI-NY tonight. Commercials and 4:3 still come through. Thanks - RJO and royrose - for confirming its the signal out of KKTV.

Oh this is just pathetic..... watching MyKKTV at 7:20 pm, they have spanish and english audio playing at the same time with an echo on both audio tracks..... I think this is the program 'Desire' per the MyKKTV website. Too funny, but so sad at the same time.

You just have to filter out the spanish or english part in your head. You get used to it after a while. :D

Last night on KKTV while trying to watch NCIS, there was no center channel audio which made me not watch. I sure hope that KKTV gets that fixed soon. I suspect it has something to do with the new sub channels.

That actually happened quite frequently last year if i remember right. Usually after they would come back from a commerical. The program would go several minutes before the audio "switch" was filpped. It got to the point where if I was going to watch a program on KKTV, I would turn my Dolby Digital off on my AV receiver and turn on a different sound field, like simulated DD.

Formerly, the video data for KKTV-HD was about 17900 kbps.

Now:
KKTV-HD: 11000
MyKKTV: 2800
KKTV-WX: 1900
Bit Bucket: 3100

CRAP! The Broncos, or any sports motion, will look pathetic at this level...way worse than a prime-time show. Great, KKTV. Who will ever be dying to watch high quality 720p MyKKTV or another weather channel? Arrrggghhh...

CRAP! The Broncos, or any sports motion, will look pathetic at this level...way worse than a prime-time show. Great, KKTV. Who will ever be dying to watch high quality 720p MyKKTV or another weather channel? Arrrggghhh...


Yeah it stinks. but I think that stupid mykktv (which I dont believe is 720p) is not on full time, so maybe the Sunday Bronco games might be spared. Hopefully Fox and NBC dont get the same stupid idea.

Well, as I said in my previous post, they're also working on upping the resolution of My KKTV to 720P (it's at 480i right now). So those numbers are going to get worse.

crap, 720p for crap tv. That just plain stinks. Why do they even bother with HD if their gonna do this to it.

I live in Pueblo and KKTV had one of the best pictures. Since they turned mykktv on two channels our feed gets blocky now. I have no way of seeing the strength with the built in but it sure did degraid it, maybe they only need to do one channel and keep it at 480 and get some bandwidth back to 11-1. The channel is a good idea but they should have done more testing. My wife made me turn on SD channel 11 it was so bad on the quality with the bits getting messed up.

I am also wanting to know what is going on with KXRM 21-1 and Prison Break has anyone heard anything yet?

I think we're going to need to start calling KKTV...how else will we get heard? I'm OK if they do 90% of the bandwidth to 11-1, 5% to 11-2, 5% to 11-3 -- they need viewers to say this loudly to them.

Can someone compile a list of email addressess and phone numbers for all the locals here in town and post it? I'd certainly be willing to make my voice heard but don't know the best way to contact the stations...

I watched part of the football game on my Tivo last night and things were fine until the middle of the 3rd quarter. At that time, I started to get choppy audio. Did anyone else have this issue?

I also noticed the video jumped once in a while as if about 1/2 second of the feed was lost. There was no pause so my assumption is that the encoding side would have generated that issue.

I think we're going to need to start calling KKTV...how else will we get heard? I'm OK if they do 90% of the bandwidth to 11-1, 5% to 11-2, 5% to 11-3 -- they need viewers to say this loudly to them.

I will definately send emails as well, so count me in. I can agree to this 90/10/10 split. KKTV has to remember that 11.1 is their HD Bread and Butter, especially now since Football season is here.

~Josh

I watched part of the football game on my Tivo last night and things were fine until the middle of the 3rd quarter. At that time, I started to get choppy audio. Did anyone else have this issue?

I also noticed the video jumped once in a while as if about 1/2 second of the feed was lost. There was no pause so my assumption is that the encoding side would have generated that issue.


Yep audio chopping here.

Not sure if you all know this but CBS is broadcasting only 3 HD nfl games a week.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=720999&page=1&pp=30

I'm getting tons of dropouts using my QAM tuner on Adelphia CBS HD broadcast. Anybody else?

I'm missing the Broncos!!! :(

I'm getting tons of dropouts using my QAM tuner on Adelphia CBS HD broadcast. Anybody else?

I'm missing the Broncos!!! :(
Uh, you didn't miss much! What a waste of HD. The lowlights:

Plummer stunk bigtime. Back to '04 status & mistakes...
Shannahan's vaunted offense sucked...
The Defense couldn't tackle(nothing pisses me off more)...
The 'team' needs another month of practice...

See? You didn't miss anything!
....jc

The good news is that when the thunderstorm rolled by they only showed the weather alert intermittently like the way stations used to do it. Note I didn't watch the whole game. Do I hear calls for Cutler yet?

Is anyone else getting a severe blue push in the game tonight on 5.1? The Giant's uniforms are really bleeding blue on my various HD displays.

~Josh

Is anyone else getting a severe blue push in the game tonight on 5.1? The Giant's uniforms are really bleeding blue on my various HD displays.

~Josh

Hey Josh-

Funny - I came here to ask basically the same thing. I wouldn't exactly call it a blue push on my end because it doesn't seem to carry over to the entire screen for me. But I definitely notice that all the players - Giants and Colts both - have sort of a blueish "halo" or "aura" around them. Happening on both my Panny AE900 and my 32" LCD. Both are fed from HDTivos. This seems to be a KOAA problem - I don't see the halos on NBCW (D* channel 83). The downside is that NBCW has classic D* macroblocking.

-Sean

Hey Josh-

Funny - I came here to ask basically the same thing. I wouldn't exactly call it a blue push on my end because it doesn't seem to carry over to the entire screen for me. But I definitely notice that all the players - Giants and Colts both - have sort of a blueish "halo" or "aura" around them. Happening on both my Panny AE900 and my 32" LCD. Both are fed from HDTivos. This seems to be a KOAA problem - I don't see the halos on NBCW (D* channel 83). The downside is that NBCW has classic D* macroblocking.

-Sean

Yeah, that is exactly what I am getting with all three of my VIP622's.

~Josh

Has anybody found any answers to getting guide data for 5.1 on their HD Tivo? Thanks to lightning last night I had a couple of brownouts that caused the Tivo to reboot and still no data.

For those screaming about Plummer, remember that he sucked in the first game last year and didn't break your heart again until the AFC Championship. What about Javon Walker dropping a sure touchdown when the two guys covering him knocked each other out of bounds? That cost me 10 points in fantasy!

I'd also like to know whats going on with 5-1 guide data. I'm sick of seeing "Regular programming". I mean, it's been over a month now! I'm going to call up Directv and bitch to them about it. Lol, I'll ask them when I'm getting the 6.3 software on my HR10-250 too. I want my folders!

I think the main reason you folks aren't getting guide data for 5.1 is....



























You don't have Dishnetwork!! ;)

Ouch, I was waiting for that!

But being DirecTV people, we can record 2 OTA channels at once, we have TiVo, and we have NFL Sunday Ticket available to comfort us in our frustration! (And we have terrible HD PQ too...)

Seriously, on the D* no guide data issue for KOAA HD, we need to break through the finger-pointing cycle of DirecTV, KOAA, Zap2It and Tribune Media Services - it's like they're all sitting in a circle pointing to the guy on their right...

I clicked through Zap2It.com a bit to the Tribune Media Services information (which according to the other thread here on AVS is truly who supplies the guide data to our D* boxes). With my work schedule I don't know when I'll be able to pursue this, but maybe one of you with a more flexible schedule during the week could make some headway with these people?

Zap2it Electronic Program Guides
John Kelleher — General Manager, EPG (800.523.8923)
Deanne Petts — Regional Sales Director (888.867.5595)
Andrew Heinz — Executive Director, New Media (772.340.3642)

I do think that this shouldbe worked out between KOAA and DirecTV directly, but that seems doubtful that either of them are motivated. The engineering guy at KOAA told me, "Yeah, I've heard about that problem from other viewers, but we don't have a DirecTV box to see what's happening. We're putting out good data in the OTA stream so that's all we have to do. I did call DirecTV once and they didn't know what I was talking about, so I gave up." So that angle is not likely to resolve it, though we could keep up the pressue on KOAA and DirecTV in case we bump into someone who understands this.

Adelphcast's INHD2??? Any other Adelphiacast customers loose their INHD2 channel 702? I have not had it for a couple days now. My father in law also is missing his. I called yesterday at work and they said it should be there, suggested i restart my Moxi. I did that last night and still no INHD2.

Yep, channel 702 is gone...

I get my 5.1 guide data just fine on my Sony OTA PVR.

Well that's because there's nothing wrong with the OTA guide data. From what I've gathered, this is strictly a D* issue.

Although, right now I've got no guide data for KOAA... But I think that's because KGWN's PSIP data is clashing with KOAA's data, and my receiver doesn't know which one to go with. It seems more often than not, my tuner chooses to go with KGWN's info, which doesn't help me at all!

I don't know how you guys are getting KKTV HD but I have lost everything. I am picking up all the other OTA channels with a signal strength of 80 but my KKTV is about 20. I have tried moving the amplified HD antenna on my house but nothing. I am also getting KOAA on 42-1; not 5-1. I was getting it originally on 5-1 but know I can't.

Any advice on KKTV?

I don't know how you guys are getting KKTV HD but I have lost everything. I am picking up all the other OTA channels with a signal strength of 80 but my KKTV is about 20. I have tried moving the amplified HD antenna on my house but nothing. I am also getting KOAA on 42-1; not 5-1. I was getting it originally on 5-1 but know I can't.

Any advice on KKTV?

I am getting it at 40% instead of the usual 95%. I think it is their problem. Don't mess up your setup trying to compensate for a signal that is not there.

[Edit 5 minutes later] In the time it took to write this, the signal came back to 94%

I am thinking of switching to Adelphia (primarily for high-speed Internet) and was wondering what issues I'll run into. I currently have Dish with the old 811 HD receiver (no DVR capability at all). I get all the local HD OTA from an external antenna.

Any thoughts?

I am thinking of switching to Adelphia (primarily for high-speed Internet) and was wondering what issues I'll run into. I currently have Dish with the old 811 HD receiver (no DVR capability at all). I get all the local HD OTA from an external antenna.

Any thoughts?

I like Adelhcast for the most part. With Adelphia, there is always promotions and if you call and ask, you can get them even if you are not a new customer. But, i heard that Comcast will not and does not offer promotions like Adelphia. The Moxi (DVR) is not bad, but it is NOT TIVO. It does have a Dual Tuner, but it again is not Tivo as in you can't watch 2 shows at one, just record 2 at once. The Season Pass's default is set to record repeats and keep 5 shows so you always have to change the recording options. I switched from D* for the "free" DVR so in comparison to $800, i guess it is not that bad. Recently, we have lost an HD channel, INHD2. With Adelphcast only offering 6 HD channels plus locals and premiums, to take one of those 6 away was real disappointing.

Seriously, on the D* no guide data issue for KOAA HD, we need to break through the finger-pointing cycle of DirecTV, KOAA, Zap2It and Tribune Media Services - it's like they're all sitting in a circle pointing to the guy on their right...

I clicked through Zap2It.com a bit to the Tribune Media Services information (which according to the other thread here on AVS is truly who supplies the guide data to our D* boxes). With my work schedule I don't know when I'll be able to pursue this, but maybe one of you with a more flexible schedule during the week could make some headway with these people?

I do think that this shouldbe worked out between KOAA and DirecTV directly, but that seems doubtful that either of them are motivated. The engineering guy at KOAA told me, "Yeah, I've heard about that problem from other viewers, but we don't have a DirecTV box to see what's happening. We're putting out good data in the OTA stream so that's all we have to do. I did call DirecTV once and they didn't know what I was talking about, so I gave up." So that angle is not likely to resolve it, though we could keep up the pressue on KOAA and DirecTV in case we bump into someone who understands this.
Well crud, another delay on the KOAA guide data problem. I called the first number for Tribune Media Services, and they gave me the department for their TV Listings group, 800-424-4747. I called that, and they close for the weekend at 5 pm Eastern which I missed by 6 minutes! I really think this is the group that we need to apprise of the situation, and they may be able to solve it themselves. This thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8330697&&#post8330697
is pretty clear that the D* TiVo guide data comes through Zap2It/TMS, not OTA as everyone thinks. It's promising that Zap2It.com does have data for channel 5.1 - so maybe it's something minor to get Zap2It/TMS to send the right KOAA data to the D* satellite database.

If someone else with a D* HD-TiVo could try calling this number with me next week, maybe one of our group will have some luck.

DirecTV keeps telling people the guide data is transmitted OTA, but that doesn't make sense - the OTA guide data is there on my PC tuner card, on the E* receivers, etc. They must be talking about other receivers than the HR10-250, especially with what people said in the thread I just mentioned above. I called KOAA Engineering again and they still think it has something to do with the OTA signal too...they are getting test equipment blah blah - I tried to convince him that the OTA data doesn't influence this, but he couldn't really hear me since it was a Vonage call and my computer was uploading 35MB of photos at that moment... :rolleyes:

Recording NBC is going to be a pain if we don't get this solved!

DirecTV keeps telling people the guide data is transmitted OTA, but that doesn't make sense - the OTA guide data is there on my PC tuner card, on the E* receivers, etc. They must be talking about other receivers than the HR10-250, especially with what people said in the thread I just mentioned above. I called KOAA Engineering again and they still think it has something to do with the OTA signal too...they are getting test equipment blah blah - I tried to convince him that the OTA data doesn't influence this, but he couldn't really hear me since it was a Vonage call and my computer was uploading 35MB of photos at that moment... :rolleyes:

Recording NBC is going to be a pain if we don't get this solved!

I would agree that the data is aquired thru the sat.....reason being??? Go to the off-air channel setup and tell it what your primary (and if you wish) secondary locations are. I chose CSprings for primary and Denver for secondary just for fun and after a 10 minute download delay, there were all the denver locals, with guide data, but of course no signal.

Just my $.02....try it. :o

I would agree that the data is aquired thru the sat.....reason being??? Go to the off-air channel setup and tell it what your primary (and if you wish) secondary locations are. I chose CSprings for primary and Denver for secondary just for fun and after a 10 minute download delay, there were all the denver locals, with guide data, but of course no signal.

Just my $.02....try it. :o
Yeah, exactly, you could probably get Alaska if you wanted to. Just like the guy in Elizabeth said he receives guide data from Denver or Colorado Springs HD OTA stations even when his antenna is pointed in the opposite direction.

So both DirecTV and KOAA are on the wrong track, and pretty much useless, in solving this issue that relates directly to them.

Adelphcast's INHD2??? Any other Adelphiacast customers loose their INHD2 channel 702? I have not had it for a couple days now. My father in law also is missing his. I called yesterday at work and they said it should be there, suggested i restart my Moxi. I did that last night and still no INHD2.

I just called Adelphia on this, mine's been missing for three days now. First they blamed my equipment and wanted to send a tech...lol. Then I mentioned that no one was getting 702 and the man said it probably is the INHD network dropping the channel.

Anyhow, he also said no one else but me has called about it and it takes 3 calls for an auto alert for outages to go to the headend people, so eveyone missing 702 please call Adelphia tonight, and tell them it's not your equipment.

^^^ Hey, I just noticed that mine is gone too. I know that some other cities have lost INHD2 but they usually got another channel in it's place. I want MHD or ESPN2HD or something. I will call them ASAP!

I was in the San Jose, CA area for most of 2004-2005 and had Comcast with digital cable and the Motorola HD/DVR. We didn't have to pay for an HD tier, and when they were running a 3 month free HBO promotion I signed up , and when I called to cancel after 3 months because I didn't watch it much, they offered me 3 months of Showtime and The Movie Channel free for 3 months. They also comp'd some On Demand programming that was acting up, and removed some service charges here and there. I found them very accomodating, so don't rule out Comcast and deals yet. They have MUCH more On Demand programming available as well. I just hope we don't lose HDNet.

-Kelly

I like Adelhcast for the most part. With Adelphia, there is always promotions and if you call and ask, you can get them even if you are not a new customer. But, i heard that Comcast will not and does not offer promotions like Adelphia. The Moxi (DVR) is not bad, but it is NOT TIVO. It does have a Dual Tuner, but it again is not Tivo as in you can't watch 2 shows at one, just record 2 at once. The Season Pass's default is set to record repeats and keep 5 shows so you always have to change the recording options. I switched from D* for the "free" DVR so in comparison to $800, i guess it is not that bad. Recently, we have lost an HD channel, INHD2. With Adelphcast only offering 6 HD channels plus locals and premiums, to take one of those 6 away was real disappointing.

Also, has anyone found any Wheel of Fortune or Jeopardy in HD on KKTV? It was still SD the one time I flipped by it this week. They are both supposed to be HD syndication now - wonder if KKTV knows.

Also, has anyone found any Wheel of Fortune or Jeopardy in HD on KKTV? It was still SD the one time I flipped by it this week. They are both supposed to be HD syndication now - wonder if KKTV knows.

I'll have to check the LA feeds to see....I too noticed that they were listed as HD in the guide, but haven't checked to see if they are....will let you know! :o

This morning I was watching the Today show when I lost all signal to NBC and PBS...The others...ABC, CBS, FOX are coming in great and strong...but zeros on NBC and PBS.

Anyone else having that problem. My setup is simple OTA antenna.

Thanks

This morning I was watching the Today show when I lost all signal to NBC and PBS...The others...ABC, CBS, FOX are coming in great and strong...but zeros on NBC and PBS.

Anyone else having that problem. My setup is simple OTA antenna.

Thanks

Yes, KOAA-DT is missing this .a.m. for me as well. I havn't checked PBS though...

Anyhow, he also said no one else but me has called about it and it takes 3 calls for an auto alert for outages to go to the headend people, so eveyone missing 702 please call Adelphia tonight, and tell them it's not your equipment.

I suspect what you're experiencing here is the switch over to the Comcast system. I had INHD2 also up until about 2 months ago, then Comcast-Pueblo dropped it. I heard talk also that INHD2's days were numbered as well over on the big board of this forum.

This morning I was watching the Today show when I lost all signal to NBC and PBS...The others...ABC, CBS, FOX are coming in great and strong...but zeros on NBC and PBS.

Anyone else having that problem. My setup is simple OTA antenna.

Thanks


YEs there out. I got scared for a little bit thinking the winds knocked my antenna off or something. It couldn't be the winds affected KOAA they had to make their antenna pass the extreme high wind test. Maybe these stations have to upgrade, there are more stations out like 27,30, 5.1, 8.1, 8.1,32,38,43.

Out here as well....been having difficulty with my sat signals recently as well, so I was wondering if it was just me....

8-01, PBS, is working now. KOAA is still out.

Roy

Went to watch the Michigan/Notre Dame game and no KOAA. Way to drop the ball.

8-01, PBS, is working now. KOAA is still out.

Roy


Check PBS again....or is it just me (1:59pm)

And as an update (2:02)....there is a high wind warning above 11,000 feet and no HD on CBS to speak of because of the need to tell us useless info which is already available on 11-2, 11-3....Thanks KKTV!!! God I love this town

No 705 or 708 coming in here on Adelphicast. Wow, the game sure looks bad in SD. Too bad it's not on ABC or ESPN this week. I hope they have people on this over the weekend...

Went to watch the Michigan/Notre Dame game and no KOAA. Way to drop the ball.

I'm getting LSU-Auburn in HD on KKTV, and the Oregon game in SD on KRDO (but it's SD even on the LA HD feed from D*), but no signal on PBS or KOAA. I had the baseball game in SD on KXRM (which is in HD on the LA feed), and then it died - no signal now.

-Sean

705 KOAA just resumed around 2:25/2:30 pm as I was on hold with customer service, so I hung up. No PBS digital yet though...

Weird, KXRM is coming in fine now. I also checked the signal strength on my HDTivo for KOAA and PBS - both were showing in the 80's and 90's. So there's a signal there, just no TV on it.

-Sean

705 KOAA just resumed around 2:25/2:30 pm as I was on hold with customer service, so I hung up. No PBS digital yet though...

Thanks--too bad so much of the game has transpired.

Looks like KOAA-HD 5.1 has a signal strength of 0 right now...

Good thing the Broncos aren't the NBC Sunday night game until next week!

Also, should we take bets on whether KKTV will figure out this year how to switch to the Sunday 2 p.m. Broncos game in HD before the second quarter? Remember that old lie, it's not available from the CBS network in HD until the early HD games are over...yeah right. (Maybe we'll be lucky today - there was only 1 early CBS HD game, and 2 CBS HD games at 2 pm.)

PBS in HD!

It seemed that both KTSC and KOAA were down this morning again. When I just checked again, KTSC was up in 1080i. This is the first that I have been aware that they have been up in HD. The currrent show looks to be HD but I know that some PBS shows are wide screen digital that are upconverted to 1080i and can look pretty good, so I am not sure.

Unless KOAA gets back on air soon, we will miss T.O. in HD. Oh well.

Roy

Edit At 4:15: Definately HD. Interestingly, the show that is on now is from the national HD channel satellite feed, not what is listed on the RMPBS HD schedule. Maybe they have given up for now on sending the HD signal by microwave from Denver.

Here is a link to the schedule of the Alberqueque PBS station. Their digital channel always shows the National HD feed. The first time you use it, select New Mexico, then KNME

KNME (http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/)

PBS in HD?

It seemed that both KTSC and KOAA were down this morning again. When I just checked again, KTSC was up in 1080i. This is the first that I have been aware that they have been up in HD. The currrent show looks to be HD but I know that some PBS shows are wide screen digital that are upconverted to 1080i and can look pretty good, so I am not sure.

Roy


Holy SH*T!!!!! He's right!!! Only question I have is why were you channel surfing when there's like a bazillion football games on??!!! Just kidding of course ;) Excellent find!

I'm scared to believe adelphia's answer to this question, but is anyone doing the ESPN Gameplan through adelphia? Is it available week to week or did you have to buy the whole season?

Holy SH*T!!!!! He's right!!! Only question I have is why were you channel surfing when there's like a bazillion football games on??!!!

Too painfull to watch the Bronco's :D

Roy

Anyone know how to contact KOAA about their feed before the game starts

Anyone know how to contact KOAA about their feed before the game starts
call the newsroom 632-5030 and tell them to tell Engineering...but they probably know already

What a sad day for HD in CS--KKTV was blotchy and banded, and KOAA is flat-out off the air.

What a sad day for HD in CS--KKTV was blotchy and banded, and KOAA is flat-out off the air.

I was at the game. It wasn't the picture that looked bad...

--Ron

Yeah I was watching the early game on fox (Giants Philly) and it look nice, clean and crisp. Then switched over to kktv and It look liked SD widescreen in comparison. Yuck they need to abandon those two extra sub channels they have.

So today, in summary-

Lost KOAA-HD completely (they'd better fix it by next weekend's Broncos game!)
Lost KKTV-HD for now (no HD on Without a Trace right now)
Gained national PBS-HD from KTSC for now

one step forward, two steps back...

I talked to KTSC a couple weeks ago and they explained how they really wanted to get the Rocky Mountain PBS signal going in HD, but they've had numerous technical issues with getting the signal via microwave hops from Denver. He mentioned that they wanted to begin with sending the national PBS-HD feed just to send some HD, but I didn't get the feeling they wanted to leave it on the national feed for long...

Personally, I'd rather have any PBS-HD, whatever the programming - just leave it!

KKTV's Bronco-Chiefs game was definitely one of the worst they've ever broadcast as far as picture quality goes -- any kind of camera movement and you get "digital bluring". What I think is really concerning is that multicasting degrades the picture "just enough" to make it annoying but not enough for most people to complain about. My suspicion is that HD-Lite is here to stay. :-(

according to KOAA's website:

"KOAA and HDTV - Updated 09-17-06, KOAA-DT HAD A MAJOR TRANSMITTER PART FAILURE AND WILL BE OFF THE AIR UNTIL TUESDAY 09-19-06."

Not only has KKTV forgotten how to send the network feed through, but when it does we have lost the 5.1 sound. I have noticed that the SD network feed is a much better looking image than the image that goes through the local conversion and has the grey bars added. The network image has much better contrast and a more clear picture. I hope KKTV can get their issues resolved soon as the new season of programs is now starting and stop giving us useless weather updates. Any odds on whether or not KOAA will be operational for next weeks Sunday night Bronco game?

KKTV's Bronco-Chiefs game was definitely one of the worst they've ever broadcast as far as picture quality goes -- any kind of camera movement and you get "digital bluring". What I think is really concerning is that multicasting degrades the picture "just enough" to make it annoying but not enough for most people to complain about. My suspicion is that HD-Lite is here to stay. :-(
Interesting - I didn't get to watch the whole game on my main system but I didn't notice anything worse than normal on the parts I saw in HD...

By the way, I've noticed that 11-2 and 11-3 are usually sent in 640x480 4:3 so at least that's not too much, but I know they have plans for 720p in the future. Hopefully they're not dumb enough to send 720p on a subchannel during a Broncos game. We would definitely need to put some serious pressure on KKTV if that happens.

according to KOAA's website:

"KOAA and HDTV - Updated 09-17-06, KOAA-DT HAD A MAJOR TRANSMITTER PART FAILURE AND WILL BE OFF THE AIR UNTIL TUESDAY 09-19-06."
Not bad by KOAA, order a part on Monday overnighted, install it on Tuesday... too bad for the premiere of Studio 60 tonight though...

And ktsc is back to simulcasting their analog channel on their digital one. They must have been testing yesterday.

Roy

according to KOAA's website:

"KOAA and HDTV - Updated 09-17-06, KOAA-DT HAD A MAJOR TRANSMITTER PART FAILURE AND WILL BE OFF THE AIR UNTIL TUESDAY 09-19-06."

Updated on their site.

"KOAA and HDTV - Updated 09-17-06, KOAA-DT HAD A MAJOR TRANSMITTER PART FAILURE AND WILL BE OFF THE AIR UNTIL 09-20-06." :(

Where can I get a list of all the over the air stations I could get in Colorado Springs. I would like to know the ones I should get with my hd tivo and analog stations.

Thanks in advance.

Where can I get a list of all the over the air stations I could get in Colorado Springs.

antennaweb.org will have what you seek. Here's a list of the digital ones from antennaweb.org:

Call Sign Network Frequency
KOAA-DT 5.1 NBC 42
KRDO-DT 13.1 ABC 24
KKTV-DT 11.1 CBS 10
KTSC-DT 8.1 PBS 26
KXRM-DT 21.1 FOX 22

I was googling "NBC HD channel Colorado springs" to verify that i wasnt hallucinating that it went off the air and came across this forum. I emailed adelphia.net about the channel and they claimed that channel never existed according to their website when I was pretty sure I was watch NBC HD the past couple of weeks on adelphia.

My current set up is Sony 46 LCD xbr2 with adelphia through the moxi box. DVI to hdmi connection.

Just thought I would say hi and hope to contribute

I was googling "NBC HD channel Colorado springs" to verify that i wasnt hallucinating that it went off the air and came across this forum. I emailed adelphia.net about the channel and they claimed that channel never existed according to their website when I was pretty sure I was watch NBC HD the past couple of weeks on adelphia.

My current set up is Sony 46 LCD xbr2 with adelphia through the moxi box. DVI to hdmi connection.

Just thought I would say hi and hope to contribute

Hello bzboy.

705 is back up now. Yeah!

I was googling "NBC HD channel Colorado springs" to verify that i wasnt hallucinating that it went off the air and came across this forum. I emailed adelphia.net about the channel and they claimed that channel never existed according to their website when I was pretty sure I was watch NBC HD the past couple of weeks on adelphia.

My current set up is Sony 46 LCD xbr2 with adelphia through the moxi box. DVI to hdmi connection.

Just thought I would say hi and hope to contribute

Hi! You weren't hallucinating, 705 is NBC HD, just the local station had a breakdown, should be back up real soon.

Anyone see 702 InHD back up yet? I'm thinking it's gone for good

Looks like although KOAA 5-1 is back up, there is no sound for the Tonight Show - only sound during the commercials... aarrgghh

Wish me luck, I'm going to try to have a mind-numbing talking-to-the-wall support call to DirecTV in the next couple days regarding the lack of guide information for KOAA-HD. I did talk with the program guide dept. at Tribune Media Services and although they didn't want to talk to me unless I worked for DirecTV or a cable company, they did eventually tell me that they do have KOAA 5-1 data in their database and it should be sending to DirecTV routinely.

I did a few reset-type maneuvers on my HD-TiVo tonight, and every time you tell it to set your local network area to "Colorado: Colo. Springs/Pueblo", it downloads the channels for which guide information is available (11.1, 11.2, 13.1, 13.2, 21.1) even if I've already cleared out all off-air channels, and it DOESN'T show any guide data or channels existing for those it's missing from the DirecTV guide database which it gets from the satellite (5.1, 11.3, 21.2).

So again, someone at DirecTV who understands this stuff (i.e. not the first CSR we talk to) is going to have to set KOAA 5.1 up correctly in some database somewhere. My gut tells me that one character or one field is wrong someplace. But we'll have to break through the CSR diversions of "your guide data is sent to your receiver OTA by the TV stations" (that could be true, but not for the HR10-250 TiVo*), or "your box must have a problem - let's unplug, restart, waste time, etc." (not true, we're all experiencing this). I think I'm going to try to get transferred either to a program guide specialist/department (if one exists) or to a HD-TiVo specialist/department - both of which would help the conversation stay closer to reality.

* - I proved to myself several ways that what we read in the other thread was true: that the OTA stations' guide data comes to our HD-TiVos through the satellite, not via the embedded OTA data.
1. I changed my primary network area to Los Angeles and the box downloaded the L.A. digital stations' virtual channel numbers, call letters, and guide information. I'm pretty sure those signals didn't travel 1,000 miles to my OTA antenna.
2. The HD-TiVos get the Colorado Springs data for the other OTA channels even when they don't have OTA reception.
3. TiVos need program data 10-14 days in advance to plan recordings, which I don't think all stations put out that much embedded in their OTA stream.
4. It pretty much says so in the HD-TiVo manual.

Not that a D* CSR will let this kind of logic steer them away from their script. Maybe I can get to a Level 2 CSR before I go crazy.

Any other D* customers that want to try calling on this too, I think there is strength in numbers! Plus if we only have say a 20% chance of getting to the right person, it sure would help to have 5 of us trying and 1 of us successful!

Let's post here any success or failure...

What's KRDO up to? Suddenly I've got NET1 (13-1) NET2 (13-2) and NET3 (13-3) from them. Unfortunately the signal is too weak for my receiver to get a lock. Anyone know what's on them?

Re: KOAA missing guide data - the saga continues....

Well Tallguy, I tried to contribute to this issue. I wish I had better news to report.

I'm on the phone right now with D* 'trying' to convince them it is a D* problem. They insist that the 'Regular schedule"... message is coming from KOAA.

I then ask them how is that E* customers are receiving guide data, if the data is missing? I inform them that I (well not me but TG) confirmed with TMS that KOAA is providing correct data and it is being sent to D* along with all the rest of the HD guide data. No luck, it's like talking to a black hole....

OK, on the third CSR (technical dept) after I rejected all of the reps excuses, they finally just took my contact info and said they would escalate it. The rep also mentioned that they had 'no record of any other customers complaining about this'. I informed them that I know for a fact of several COS customers that have contacted D* to resolve this exact problem.

Why do they just lie, and always tell us that they have had no other complaints? This is insulting. They should just not mention it and save some degree of credibility.

Here's my experience trying to get someone at DirecTV to look into the 5-1 guide data issue:

I begin my call 4 nights ago by waiting for about 5 minutes for a service rep to come on the line. Finally a young lady answers and I can tell right away that English is definitely NOT her first language. I patiently explain the problem I'm calling about, realizing up front that a front-line service representative is definitely NOT going ot be able to help me with my problem, but I have to get through this to get to the folks who can. The conversation goes something like this:


Me: I'm calling about an issue with your programming guide data, we have a new local channel in our area and the guide data on my receiver is not showing up for that particular channel.

Rep: Guide data?

Me: Yes, you know, the programming information for the various channels that shows up on your reciever?

Rep: Yes, i can send you a channel lineup card.

Me: Uh no, I don't need a channel lineup card, I know what channels I have, the problem is your guide data for one particular channel here in our area.

Rep: Ok, well i can send you DirecTv's magazine which has information about channels.

Me: Um yah, you're not really understanding me very well, can I please speak to someone who understands english?

Rep: Sir, I do understand you, you said 'guide', and I'm trying to help you.

Me: Yah, well, can you just transfer me to technical support? I'm pretty sure I need to speak with someone at the next level up.

Rep: I'm sorry sir I cannot do that.

Me: Ok, can I speak with your manager?

Rep: I'm sorry sir, no one is available.

Me: Ok, how about the person sitting next to you, do they understand english? (Yes, I'm getting pretty upset at this point)


This goes on for another 10 minutes until the lady finally realizes she's not going to figure out what the h*ll I'm talking about, and I'm not going away quietly, so finally she transfers me to technical support. Another young lady answers and this one actually understands me, woohoo!

I explain to her the situation I'm having, and right away she cuts me off stating that DirecTv doesn't offer HD programming in my area. I explain to her that I understand that, however I am picking up my HD programming via an antenna, it's just that the guide data is wrong so I'd like someone to look into it. Then she proceeds to tell me that the guide data comes in over the ANTENNA, directly from the local station, not via the satellite. I politely inform her that she's misinformed, and that I'm positive the guide data in my particular case is relayed via Tribune Media services, to DirecTv, who then provide the information via the satellite signal. She starts reading information from some script that basically talks about the programming signal itself coming in over the antenna, blah blah blah, and I assure her I realize that the actual programming IS being received directly, and re-assert that the programming guide comes in via another route.

This goes on for another 15 minutes until I finally ask is she can simply give me the benefit of the doubt and file a ticket and see what happens. I ask her what she'd do if one of the channels they DO provide via satellite had bad programming information, just follow the same procedure. She tells me to hold and I finally think I'm getting somewhere until she comes back 5 minutes later and states she verified with a collegue (ie the guy stiting next to her) that the guide data definitely comes in over the antenna and the bad guide data has nothing to do with DirecTv. Odd I tell her, since everyone other programming provider seems to have gotten right in our area, maybe I should switch to one of them?

It's obvious the girl isn't going to raise a finger to look into this any further, and would rather spend the rest of the evening arguing with me, rather than even attempting to have someone look into it, who might be more aware of the programming guide infrastructure than she is, so I finally concede that she's done all she's willing to do for me and I end the call politely.

I filed a complaint online (www.directv.com) about my experience and received a response asking to explain the problem again and they would be gald to help (not to mention they were sorry for my experience), which I did, and of course, have received no further response.

Hey at least she didn't say "we have never received anyone else complianing about this issue before" line of crap-o-la :D

At least on my call, the rep never gave me the "Guide data comes from the Antenna" bit. I did completely bypass the first CSR, after I gave my phone number I immediately asked for a tech specalist that understands Guide Data. Lotta help that did me.

thank God I still live in L.A. ;) Incidentally, I sent them info about the guide data through the net and they thanked me for my suggestion. Brilliant, aren't they!

It's like talking to an addict that won't admit they have a problem.... ya know if they would just admit that several people have contacted them and give us a warm fuzzy that they are working towards a solution, I'd feel like there is some hope. But given that every time one of us calls in, we get the same 'dear in the headlights' confused- "guide data come from the Antenna, we've never heard of this before' crap. I have little to no hope that we willl ever see KOAA guide data on an HR10-250.

Thanks, RMassey and BWillette for working on this!

Definitely the first-level CSRs have no room to believe that a customer has information that they don't have on their little paper or screen. I had to fight hard to get through the first-level D* CSR today - she did finally transfer me to level 2 even though she thought I was an idiot, the guide data was definitely received OTA, etc. When I told her I received the Los Angeles guide data, she said "well you must have been receiving that signal then" and I laughed - 1,000 miles away! - my antenna would have to be bigger than the earth...

I guess I do understand why Level 1 reps think customers are idiots - they probably spend all day telling clueless people how to put batteries in their remotes, how to turn their 13" TV to channel 3, how they probably unplugged the wrong cable in the back where they can't see it... I would get cynical in that job, dealing with technically illiterate customers. I just wish their was a real expert level at D* we could talk to.

Level 2 - the guy was more reasonable - I think since he knew more about receivers, he could tell that I did too. I think this is still a situation that Level 2 never deals with, so it's not in the protocol - but I did finally convince him to log an incident for the Engineering group which supposedly looks at it within 3-4 days. If I'm really lucky, the person in Engineering that reads this will hopefully have a clue about guide data setup for OTA digital stations relative to the HD-TiVo boxes - what are the odds of that?

Both people said it hasn't been reported before - obviously their tracking doesn't work for this. I intend to go back through this thread for the past 2 months and count up the people that have reported it. That way, any of us can say, "No, I have 5 friends in Colorado Springs (whatever the number is) who have reported this before." That also helps avoid the box resetting game...

Also, I called early this morning so that I could speak to someone in the U.S. rather than India. Not saying U.S. reps are smarter - it's just that there's no set procedure in the book for them to look up and know what to do...

I thought about another proof of the guide data coming from DirecTV - haven't tried this but I know it will work: Clear all guide data by changing the primary network area to a far-away place - disconnect the antenna input - change local area back to Colorado Springs - watch the guide data populate for 11-1, 13-1, 21-1 even with no antenna connected. That proves it. Not that a D* rep would believe us.

If more of you try to call in, remember to try to get through Level 1 and get through to Level 2 as soon as possible...there's no hope at Level 1! Again, I really believe that at some point one of us gets lucky and talks to the right person with the right experience - maybe even a tech support rep who owns an HD-TiVo or who knows the department at D* that handles the guide data... They need to hear from a bunch of us.

Called again this morning, got RIGHT through level 1 support this time, by telling them I was following up on an issue i had called in about previously and needed to be transferred directly to level 2 tech support..the rep actually complied, so you guys might try that (woohoo, Avs Forums 1, DirecTv 5!). In addition, she gave me the direct tech support # (888-667-7463).

Explained to the level 2 tech support person (her name was Belkys, I highly recommend we start explicitly taking names of reps we talk to and inform them we are logging their information to show we mean business. This can prove helpful to show there ARE other complains being filed) our issue again, firmly stating that I wanted a ticket filed this time, patiently explaining how the HR 10-250 is a unique product and while I realize ALL other receivers get local guide data OTA, this product does not. She actually was very nice and polite, and took all the information and assured me she'd file it, especially after I explained to her that several of us in this area were getting the run-around, by claims that no one else had reported the issue.

By the way, she DID start to give me the guide OTA argument, and I explained to her that we did the antenna disconnect and setup for LA and were able to get the channels and guide data for that area, that seemed to convince her I wasn't full of cr*p ;) She said this was the first time with dealing with an issue like this, so it was likely the other reps hadn't either and that's why they were hesitant to believe us. I told her she'd make a LOT of folks VERY happy if she was able to get in touch with the right folks and get this resolved.

I sat on the phone with her for a good 30 minutes while she consulted with various folks, including a programming specialist. I'm gonna get her manager's name and contact info in the event she actually get's this resolved, she's going to get a letter of commendation from me (and hopefully others..hehe). At the end, supposedly the specialist she talked to did SOMETHING (not sure what) and told me to wait 24-48 hours to see if the guide data updated. If it did not, to call back and they would follow up further.

We'll see what happens. Let's keep up the good fight..I'm hopeful I can watch The Office in HD off my HDTivo someday ;)

Kudos to you! Great job!

Yeah, great job, BWillette!

By the way, you do know you can set a manual recording for The Office?
-Record by Date/Time
-Repeating, Every Thursday
-Ch. 5-1
-Start 7:30 pm
-End 8:00 pm

There are drawbacks though - when the schedule changes or they have a longer show, we'll miss it; all the NBC shows look pretty much alike (vague) in the Now Playing List; it takes a lot longer to set the recordings, etc.

I think we have a chance! I vacillate between skepticism and optimism on this issue.