I wonder if we can get a ticket #, so we can all just keep calling in and reference a specific #, then we can eliminate the "we have never heard of this before" line. Also, if well immediately point out that LA guide data populates while the Ant is disconnected, we can dispense with the 'comes from the antenna' bit.

Once these facts are established during the call, we may actually get to have a meiningful conversation with Level2 support towards resolution.

This is just sad that we have to take these steps to get a working program guide. Isn't this what we pay $5.99/mo for with our DVR fees?

Manual recording works, I have one set for Leno. But for programs I really want to see, I am sticking to SD, so I don't get nailed by a program change. It seems like during the new fall season premieres, they like to push shows around with little notice.

I used to work for DIRECTV in Denver as a Sr. Reporting Analyst. I left the company about a month ago to go to Comcast. I called my former manager and explained everything to him and asked him to reach out to his contacts in Engineering. He did that and got back to me the this morning with their first response (which I won't go into here) and then I gave him some more information to go back to them with.

Keep trying to work it on your end, while I continue to pursue back-office inquiries. Hopefully we'll get this straightened out soon.

I wonder if we can get a ticket #, so we can all just keep calling in and reference a specific #, then we can eliminate the "we have never heard of this before" line. Also, if well immediately point out that LA guide data populates while the Ant is disconnected, we can dispense with the 'comes from the antenna' bit.

Once these facts are established during the call, we may actually get to have a meiningful conversation with Level2 support towards resolution.
Exactly. (I was thinking it would be better to point out that the Colorado Springs guide data populates to our boxes when the antenna is disconnected...I just haven't tried it yet. It might seem more applicable to them to hear the story involving the COS data rather than LA. It does take about an hour to run the "clear all program data" step, and you lose your season passes in the process - on the other hand, it makes the software run faster!)

I used to work for DIRECTV in Denver as a Sr. Reporting Analyst. I left the company about a month ago to go to Comcast. I called my former manager and explained everything to him and asked him to reach out to his contacts in Engineering. He did that and got back to me the this morning with their first response (which I won't go into here) and then I gave him some more information to go back to them with.

Keep trying to work it on your end, while I continue to pursue back-office inquiries. Hopefully we'll get this straightened out soon.
Thank you! I've been thinking that we might do a lot better with an insider!

Are you still a DirecTV customer or did you have to succumb to the Comcast discount?

Thanks TechPrep, we can use all the help we can get. Any tips on how to best communicate this to reps during our calls for resolution?

Sounds like the issue is being resolved, but I wanted to point out one fact, it is NOT just HD-Tivos with the problem. Granted it is a bigger isue for Tivo users, but both my H20 and LSS3200 display nothing for KOAA.

^^^ Correct, I also have an RCA DTC-100 and it does not show guide data. The RCA see little use and is not critical for me, but this problem is not isolated to the HR10-250.

So TechPrep, any info on Comcast offering some type of Tivo based DVR next year? How about any new HD channels for COS?

^^^ Correct, I also have an RCA DTC-100 and it does not show guide data. The RCA see little use and is not critical for me, but this problem is not isolated to the HR10-250.

So TechPrep, any info on Comcast offering some type of Tivo based DVR next year? How about any new HD channels for COS?
Yeah, that's a good question - I would consider shelling out the big bucks for a Series 3 Tivo with Comcast if they support it and keep adding HD channels... hopefully by next year it will be less than $799.

Yeah I hope the S3 is < $500 by next summer. My current D* contract is thru Aug. 07. This gives plenty of time to get the kinks worked out of the S3 and cable cards (which sound like a nightmare per reports). There is also the posibility of a moto/Tivo box offered by Comcast. The problem with Comcast is that they favor high monthly rates/more services offered, rather than basic/low cost service. I could see just getting an S3 and use it strictly for OTA, pay the monthly Tivo fee and go cheap. I'm getting tired of $70/mo TV sub fees.

Well, I come to find out I work with a person who use to be a supervisor for DTV tech support in western Florida. He mainly dealt with tech support on the TIVO units for DTV. I explained the situation to him and he told me that the issue is a TIVO software issue and since D* is no longer offering TIVO equiped DVR that it will take an act of GOD to get this issue resolved. He was saying something about that since it is a TIVO issue D* has to contact TIVO software guys and get them to put in a fix and that is the part that will take an act of GOD tp accomplish. He has been removed from tech support for about year so that could have changed, but, when he was there he mentioned it was extremely hard to get a TIVO update sent to D* from TIVO. Anybody have any thoughts on this.

I have an associate quite high up at D*. I will call him tonight to inform of the guide data problem. I will update as I know more.

~Josh

Well, I come to find out I work with a person who use to be a supervisor for DTV tech support in western Florida. He mainly dealt with tech support on the TIVO units for DTV. I explained the situation to him and he told me that the issue is a TIVO software issue and since D* is no longer offering TIVO equiped DVR that it will take an act of GOD to get this issue resolved. He was saying something about that since it is a TIVO issue D* has to contact TIVO software guys and get them to put in a fix and that is the part that will take an act of GOD tp accomplish. He has been removed from tech support for about year so that could have changed, but, when he was there he mentioned it was extremely hard to get a TIVO update sent to D* from TIVO. Anybody have any thoughts on this.

Although it's true that it does take a sacrifice to a higher power to generate a new TIVO software release for D* boxes, I highly doubt this problem has anything to do with the HDTivo itself. Guide data works perfectly well for every other channel in the area, and as you can see above, the HDTivo isn't the only box with the guide problem. I think it's pretty clear the fault lies somewhere between D* and whoever supplies D* with the guide info.

-Sean

Allthough we are all convinced the HR10-250 gets guide data from the sat, I am wondering about my RCA DTC box. I currently do not even have a sat line connected to it and use it strictly for OTA. I get guide data for all COS locals except KOAA. So, hmmmm... does this box get its data via OTA. If so, perhaps KOAA does have a problem with their guide data being sent out.

Allthough we are all convinced the HR10-250 gets guide data from the sat, I am wondering about my RCA DTC box. I currently do not even have a sat line connected to it and use it strictly for OTA. I get guide data for all COS locals except KOAA. So, hmmmm... does this box get its data via OTA. If so, perhaps KOAA does have a problem with their guide data being sent out.
From what you say, I believe it's not one or the other, it is both KOAA and D*.

That makes sense, because today I starded getting the Guide titles for 5-1 but no program descriptions on my H20-100 box. The only problem that now exists is that the times for the programs are off by one minute (8:59 – 9:59 instead of 9:00-10:00), small error but worth mentioning. I had this earlier, until D*’s program guide system went haywire a couple of weeks ago and then only showed “Regular Programming” ‘til now.

Is it possible that D* can't send what the don't get from KOAA? :confused:

This made me go check. I have one TV with an ATSC tuner internal, it gets KOAA with full guide data no problem. Switch to the H20 and while it receives the signal great all the guide says is Regular programming.

The RCA receiver situation however does make me wonder if maybe the guide data being sent is slightly misformatted. The TV I used is a LG that just came out in July so I am sure it has the latest and greatest 5th gen tuner which obviously can handle the data while maybe an older tuner cant? Possibly the guide services use older equipment??

Although it's true that it does take a sacrifice to a higher power to generate a new TIVO software release for D* boxes, I highly doubt this problem has anything to do with the HDTivo itself. Guide data works perfectly well for every other channel in the area, and as you can see above, the HDTivo isn't the only box with the guide problem. I think it's pretty clear the fault lies somewhere between D* and whoever supplies D* with the guide info.

-Sean
Exactly - it's a data problem, not a software problem (for boxes like the HD-TiVo which use only the guide data from D*)

What's KRDO up to? Suddenly I've got NET1 (13-1) NET2 (13-2) and NET3 (13-3) from them. Unfortunately the signal is too weak for my receiver to get a lock. Anyone know what's on them?
Is anybody else getting this? I don't get any 13-3, just 11-1/11-2/11-3.

No HD on KOAA 5-1 for Leno tonight. Hopefully they don't screw up the Broncos in HD on NBC in 2 nights.

Glad to see so many others working on the 5-1 guide data issue. I have made a couple of calls to DirecTV as well and haven't gotten any results different from those already reported. I'm also trying to work with a guy from KOAA to resolve the problem, although that seems to be a dead end so far. But I do appreciate hearing what other people are trying, so thanks.

I am still a DTV customer even though I could get everything free from Comcast (Adelphia). I like my TIVO too much to switch to the non-TIVO dvr offerings from my current employer. I have 2 HR-10's on the projector in the rec room and 3 Philips DSR-700/704's upstairs in the living room. I'd be lost without TIVO. Unfortunately, I can't afford $800 X 5 to replace everything with Series 3 (but if my Powerball numbers come in tonight watch out! :p )

I didn't hear anything from my former manager yesterday, but I'll check back on Monday to see what the latest is. If he can't help, I still have some other contacts there and I'll keep trying until something happens.

I don't have any information on Comcast's HD plans as of yet, we are too busy with the data conversion bringing the Adelphia systems in the Springs and Trinidad into the curent Colorado Market systems to talk about programming changes as of yet. If I get any concrete info, I'll be sure to pass along what I can. (and if I get a definitive answer on the Motorola-TIVO software rollout, I'll let you know too).

To the others that are also working on the issue, thank you and keep trying. This is definitely a case where "too many cooks won't spoil the soup."

Is anybody else getting this? I don't get any 13-3, just 11-1/11-2/11-3.

No HD on KOAA 5-1 for Leno tonight. Hopefully they don't screw up the Broncos in HD on NBC in 2 nights.

I havn't got HD for Leno or Conan all week. :( No HD for SNL tonight either.

I called back this morning to report that the guide data for channel 5-1 is still missing. I spoke with a rep named Karen at first. She read through my notes and contacted a program specialist again, and started to give me the canned guide-data-OTA response, but I stood firm and explained the LA feeds setup again and once again, that seemed to convince her that I was looney.

She finally conceded there was little she could do at this point so offered to hand me off to a supervisor.

Had a very nice discussion with Cheryl, who was a technical supervisor at DirecTv. She seemed very sympathetic to the cause, even had me email the URL to the discussion here so that she could forward this, along with all the other information I provided her to a 'technical coordinator' who could investigate the matter further.

She took the time to note all of the receiver makes/models you all have documented here as having the same issue, and seemed in agreement with us that it was unlikely the local broadcasters issue since other programming providers (ie Dish and cable, and even zap2it.com) were providing the correct guide data for this channel. She also seemed interested, and documented, in the fact that there are MULTIPLE DirecTV customers in our area suffering from this same problem.

She told me there'd be no good way to contact her back directly, but offered that when she heard further information on the ticket she was filing, she'd contact me directly to let me know progress, unless the technical coordinator was going to contact me directly for help (which I offered).

At least some higher-ups at DirecTV are becoming more aware of this issue for their Colorado Springs customers, and maybe one of these will lead to a resolution. Let's keep up the pressure and coordination folks, good stuff going on here, thanks for everyone who is chipping in. I'm very hopeful.

Has anyone noticed more HD feeds from our local PBS station since the test a few days ago?


-doGlooP

When flipping around....I've noticed NONE!!! Maybe I'm just missing them?? :cool:

We're still going backwards...we've lost Dolby Digital 5.1 sound on KKTV, the PQ is declining on KKTV through multicasting, we've lost late-night HD from KOAA, now the Giants-Seahawks started out in HD on KXRM-Fox and has been SD for quite a while...

Maybe 1950s black and white by next month!

I called back this morning to report that the guide data for channel 5-1 is still missing. I spoke with a rep named Karen at first. She read through my notes and contacted a program specialist again, and started to give me the canned guide-data-OTA response, but I stood firm and explained the LA feeds setup again and once again, that seemed to convince her that I was looney.

She finally conceded there was little she could do at this point so offered to hand me off to a supervisor.

Had a very nice discussion with Cheryl, who was a technical supervisor at DirecTv. She seemed very sympathetic to the cause, even had me email the URL to the discussion here so that she could forward this, along with all the other information I provided her to a 'technical coordinator' who could investigate the matter further.

She took the time to note all of the receiver makes/models you all have documented here as having the same issue, and seemed in agreement with us that it was unlikely the local broadcasters issue since other programming providers (ie Dish and cable, and even zap2it.com) were providing the correct guide data for this channel. She also seemed interested, and documented, in the fact that there are MULTIPLE DirecTV customers in our area suffering from this same problem.

She told me there'd be no good way to contact her back directly, but offered that when she heard further information on the ticket she was filing, she'd contact me directly to let me know progress, unless the technical coordinator was going to contact me directly for help (which I offered).

At least some higher-ups at DirecTV are becoming more aware of this issue for their Colorado Springs customers, and maybe one of these will lead to a resolution. Let's keep up the pressure and coordination folks, good stuff going on here, thanks for everyone who is chipping in. I'm very hopeful.
Wow, great job!

I was so optimistic the other day that I had figured out the perfect workaround. I searched online and found out that there are 4 other HD stations in the country that are NBC affiliates and transmit on frequency 42. One of them was Kansas City, MO, so I added it into my TiVo as my secondary local market and it downloaded the guide data for their DTV stations. (Remember, I have the mother of all antennas that can receive all stations from L.A. to Kansas City... :rolleyes: ) When I tuned to the KC NBC station, with the guide data, the TiVo grabs the UHF 42 frequency and displays KOAA HD.

But that's when I realized...in the Central time zone, their prime time isn't 8:00-11:00...it's 7:00-10:00 like ours - so the shows aren't actually shown at the same time as here - it's Central and Eastern that show at the same moment in real time (7 pm Central, 8 pm Eastern). So we couldn't rely on the KC guide data to record our local NBC shows by name - unless we padded each show by one full hour, which gets kind of silly. Would work fine to rely on their guide data for live national programming like the Ryder Cup and the Broncos tonight, though, since they're on at the same moment in every time zone.

Basically we need a 42/HD/NBC affiliate anywhere in the Mountain Time Zone, but the 4 other than KOAA are in KC, Indiana, Illinois, and Boston. Dang it all.

I usually pride myself on being good at time zone math, but not this time...so close and yet so far...

LA is still in HD on FOX...

^^^ Correct, I also have an RCA DTC-100 and it does not show guide data. The RCA see little use and is not critical for me, but this problem is not isolated to the HR10-250.


Correction - I just re-checked my RCA DTC-100 and it is currently showing guide data for KOAA. HR10-250 is still missing data. So, I was mistaken previously or KOAA changed something on the OTA stream.

LA is still in HD on FOX...
Yeah, it's time to think about moving again. :D

Yeah, it's time to think about moving again. :D

Exactly. I'd rather stay legit, but if this continues much longer, I will prob 'move' to LA. Do they still get Locals via Mpg2?

Ya, I have all the LA locals via an old loophole - I used to live in Manitou and had automatic waivers under the old SHIVA/DNS rules, and that included the LA locals in HD. When I moved to Cascade, D* never turned them off (even though I used the Movers Connection, so they can't pretend they didn't know I moved). I wasn't about to call in and complain mind you, even though I can pick up all the locals now with rabbit ears. Anyway, they're all still MPEG-2 (I can pick them up on my 3-LNB dish and my HDTivo). It's nice to have both while the locals go through their growing pains. I prefer the local OTA channels over the LA feeds since (at least when they're working) they generally look better than the over-compressed D* crapola.

-Sean

Has anyone else been having a problem losing the KKTV-HD signal from time to time? Seems anytime I watch KKTV-HD I lose the signal for a few seconds at a time. My signal strength is excellent and I don't have this problem on any of the other DTV stations. It doesn't matter what time of day or what the weather is doing either. It's frustrating to say the least.

Wow, great job!

I was so optimistic the other day that I had figured out the perfect workaround. I searched online and found out that there are 4 other HD stations in the country that are NBC affiliates and transmit on frequency 42. One of them was Kansas City, MO, so I added it into my TiVo as my secondary local market and it downloaded the guide data for their DTV stations. (Remember, I have the mother of all antennas that can receive all stations from L.A. to Kansas City... :rolleyes: ) When I tuned to the KC NBC station, with the guide data, the TiVo grabs the UHF 42 frequency and displays KOAA HD.

But that's when I realized...in the Central time zone, their prime time isn't 8:00-11:00...it's 7:00-10:00 like ours - so the shows aren't actually shown at the same time as here - it's Central and Eastern that show at the same moment in real time (7 pm Central, 8 pm Eastern). So we couldn't rely on the KC guide data to record our local NBC shows by name - unless we padded each show by one full hour, which gets kind of silly. Would work fine to rely on their guide data for live national programming like the Ryder Cup and the Broncos tonight, though, since they're on at the same moment in every time zone.

Basically we need a 42/HD/NBC affiliate anywhere in the Mountain Time Zone, but the 4 other than KOAA are in KC, Indiana, Illinois, and Boston. Dang it all.

I usually pride myself on being good at time zone math, but not this time...so close and yet so far...

I wonder if that would work if you just set the time options on the season pass to "shift" the start and end times by an hour, not just padding the recording by an hour? In other words, instead of having the recording "start on time" change it to start 60 mins later? I'm not home so I can't see how far ahead you can change it. Does anyone else know?

It would be another alternative to manual recordings until things get fixed.

... back to my antenna install a few pages back.

I have an Antenna's Direct DB4 - http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html and was unable to split the incoming signal without signal loss. Well, I finally installed a TV Antenna Amplifier - PA-17 UHF/VHF Low Noise Pre Amplifier - http://www.antennasdirect.com/antenna_amplifier.html and now can split the signal with little signal loss. I also ran new dedicated RG6 line from the Ant to my wiring closet. I am now able to connect two HD receivers, a DVD burner tuner and my HT pre-amp/SSP FM with acceptable signals on all the local HD stations. :)

Now, if I could just get the guide data for KOAA, I could get on with things.

I just got off the phone with my contact at D* and he claims that the HR10-250 will have KOAA Guide Data by Friday of this week. He mentioned he passed it on to one of the higher-ups in the Tier 2 Department. We will see.

~Josh

Has anyone else noticed a change in the signal from KXRM lately? I used to pull this in just fine (70's/80's on my HDTivo) with my outdoor Winegard GS-1000, but in the last week or so the signal dropped into the 30's and 40's. None of the other channels seemed to be affected. I checked to be sure the antenna hadn't moved, and it hadn't. I tried to re-orient it and was able to get KXRM back up into the 50's/60's at the expense of some KOAA signal, but even then KXRM will pixelate a bit from time to time.

Assuming it's my setup and not KXRM, any suggestions for a new antenna? The Winegard pulls in KKTV in the 90's, and everything but KXRM in the 70's/80's or so. So I figured maybe I should just get a cheap/decent UHF antenna and combine it with the Winegard since it pulls in KKTV so well. Alternatively I'd need to replace the Winegard with a decent UHF/VHF combo antenna. Suggestions welcome - I don't want to spend more than about $40 bucks. I live in Cascade and aside from some scrub oak, basically have line of sight to Cheyenne Mtn.

Thanks,
Sean

Has anyone else been having a problem losing the KKTV-HD signal from time to time? Seems anytime I watch KKTV-HD I lose the signal for a few seconds at a time. My signal strength is excellent and I don't have this problem on any of the other DTV stations. It doesn't matter what time of day or what the weather is doing either. It's frustrating to say the least.

I asked this exact question here a few months ago, and no one responded, so I just assumed it was a 'no'. Glad to hear someone else is experiencing this!
KKTVs signal stays at a solid 88% and it never moves even while these dropouts are happening. I just don't understand what it could be.

What tuner are you using?

Did we lose channel 2 from Denver because WB (now CW) went to 57? Is there an HD version of this channel available to us in the Springs?

I have not had any signal problems with KKTV or KXRM recently - other than no 5.1 sound on KKTV.
I watched the entire Steelers/Bengals game Sunday on KKTV and The War At Home Sunday night on KXRM and didn't notice any problems.

Rob

Did anyone else watch Brothers & Sisters on KRDO-DT last night?
On the HR10-250 the last 10 or so minutes of the show had no audio - lost the audio immediately when coming back to the show from the last commercial break.
On the bedroom SD DirecTiVo the audio was fine.

Rob

Is NBC off the air again? Can't get a signal. All others are fine so I assume it's NBC

What tuner are you using?
I'm using an Echostar 921DVR.

I must have missed seeing your question, I don't get email notifications regarding this thread on a regular basis. :(

Hmm, looks like we have totally different tuners. I have no idea what it could be then.

For those of you interested... I called Adelphia to ask what they were going to replace INHD2/702 with and they told me nothing was going to replace it.

After telling her that the Adelphia offering was pure crap in terms of HD offerings and that I was now planning to switch services, she told me to hold on till December and they would be adding 'as many as 25 new HD channels'

For the record, I dont believe it at all! :)

she told me to hold on till December and they would be adding 'as many as 25 new HD channels'

Sounds like they are taking marketing lessons from DirecTV :D

NBC 5.1 worked for me last night, but nothing this morning. Anyone else notice the same thing?

I not only am not getting 5.1, I did a signal strength test for freq. 42, and it comes up 0. By the way, the other OTA HD channels all had readings of 88-92.NBC 5.1 worked for me last night, but nothing this morning. Anyone else notice the same thing?

I am not getting 5.1 and did a signal strength test, and it is "0". All other OTA channels are 88-92 on my Tivo.

For those of you interested... I called Adelphia to ask what they were going to replace INHD2/702 with and they told me nothing was going to replace it.

After telling her that the Adelphia offering was pure crap in terms of HD offerings and that I was now planning to switch services, she told me to hold on till December and they would be adding 'as many as 25 new HD channels'

For the record, I dont believe it at all! :)

I called last night also and was told there would be major channel lineup changes coming real soon. I then asked for a refund for the missing channel 702 which we are paying for with the HD package and she gave me a one time 5 dollar credit. I'm just wondering how much we're going to have to shell out for the new 25 + channel HD programming once or if it gets here.

Looks like 5.1 is on now

Still no HD on The Tonight Show on 5.1--what's that been, a week and half of screwing that up? KOAA must forget to record it onto the server in HD. Although I did rewind on the TiVo and notice that the first 1-2 minutes were in HD but then switched to SD and stayed there.

If anyone has a chance to call KOAA Engineering tomorrow during the day...632-5030. Tell them Letterman has 5x the resolution of Leno, so what do you think we'd rather watch?

I just got off the phone with my contact at D* and he claims that the HR10-250 will have KOAA Guide Data by Friday of this week. He mentioned he passed it on to one of the higher-ups in the Tier 2 Department. We will see.

~Josh
That sounds great, Josh, thanks. Did it sound like someone actually found the exact problem and understood what to do to correct it? Or was it vague and they're just assuming that someone else will figure it out later?

Hoping Josh's contact comes thru too, but I'll believe it when it happens. Thanks for giving it a try Josh.

So if Comcast offers up 25 HD channels, this may play well into my interest in a Tivo S3. What is the current monthly cost to get HD from Adelphia/Comcast in the springs? Is it month to month or a contract? Anyone ever use a cable card from Adelphia yet? Do they offer a triple play (phone/net/TV) service yet?

I just got word that Time Warner has started it's staffing effort for it's 'huge' call center in C/S. This will be a 7/24 center and the starting pay rate is around $10. They are looking to fill 20 positions by 10/03, and then 20-30 per week there after.

If anyone is interested, please PM me, and I'll pass along the contact info.
....jc

That sounds great, Josh, thanks. Did it sound like someone actually found the exact problem and understood what to do to correct it? Or was it vague and they're just assuming that someone else will figure it out later?


It was a bit vague. This contact has always come through in the past. We will see in a couple of days.

~Josh

What is the current monthly cost to get HD from Adelphia/Comcast in the springs? Is it month to month or a contract? Anyone ever use a cable card from Adelphia yet? Do they offer a triple play (phone/net/TV) service yet?

I've got Adelphia HD service and a cable card. The cable card works great. It's one-way only so there's no guide, no OnDemand, etc. but it only costs something like $1.85 per month (and I was able to give up my old cable box). That's all that's needed to receive the local channels, ESPN HD, and Discovery HD. It's an additional $5/mo. for HDNet, HDNet Movies, INHD, and (until recently) INHD2. There's also a new INHD channel which usually shows nothing, but occasionally shows a baseball game in HD (usually a feed from one of the regional FOX Sports Networks). Last year, during the hockey/basketball season, we also got Altitude HD, so we got a bunch of Avalanche and Nuggets games in HD. That alone was worth the price of admission. I'm hoping they'll be bringing that back this season.

I haven't seen anything on a triple play. For the most part, we're still getting Adelphia services... they haven't really welcomed us into the Comcast family yet.

Thanks Bob, So what is the monthly fee before the $1.85 + $5, like the min cost for digital cable?

Is anyone lese not getting 5.1 on kktv anymore It has seemed to be missing for two weeks now miss it for football. Has anyone talk to krdo to see how theirs is coming the voices seemed muffled like they need to get the rest of the feed for the center.

Yeah, KKTV dropped the surround sound since they started the multicasting garbage - maybe they figured if KRDO and KOAA didn't need 5.1 sound on their HD channels, they could save the bandwidth too for their exciting rerun subchannel and weather subchannel that no one watches.

I just emailed a few people at KKTV to ask about the lack of DD5.1 sound - I'll report back if I hear anything.

Also emailed KOAA engineering & KRDO and asked when they might have DD5.1.

TallGuy: might be time to update your signature since KKTV hasn't had DD5.1 for a while now...

Rob

TallGuy: might be time to update your signature since KKTV hasn't had DD5.1 for a while now...
Rob
You're right - how do you like the update? It's hard to get on my soapbox in under 200 characters!

You're right - how do you like the update? It's hard to get on my soapbox in under 200 characters!

I like it. It's a nice bonus that you included both the national network name and local affiliate call letters, (e.g. NBC KOAA, etc). I can't keep 'em straight half the time. :)

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!!
So my wife and I sit down to watch CSI after getting the kids to bed. Fire up the PJ and spool up the DVR. No sound from KKTV. What a bunch of asshats!

I noticed that no sound thing on KKTV on Shark tonight - glad I wasn't intending to watch that show. Hope they never screw up on CSI Miami or Without a Trace.

We're going backwards people!

Still no sound on KKTV, now for Letterman.

Still no HD on KOAA for the Tonight Show - 2 weeks of that now?

KRDO was screwy tonight too - Ugly Betty (don't ask, my wife wanted me to Tivo it) started out as HD, and then came back from commercial as SD and stayed that way until the next commercial. Amateur hour.

-Sean

Yep, KRDO has done that a lot lately. Several blocks of Dancing with the Stars have been that way too (my daughter loves it). When some of the show is HD, that seems to indicate that the station did record the HD stream, but just forgot to switch back after SD commercials insertion. KKTV makes a habit of forgetting to switch back to HD too (as opposed to KOAA, which seems to have completely forgotten to record The Tonight Show in HD at all off the early feed...)

KKTV is a real disappointment. First to go on the air with a DTV and HD signal and STILL not able to get it right. Splitting up bandwidth for some crappy stations that no one wants to watch is a stupid idea. I have been mullin over upgrading my 921DVR to the new Vip622 so I could increase the amount of HD channels I receive, looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get one. Somebody send me a PM when the local stations get their crap together...I'll be watching DBS HD till then.

I've been thinking that we might need to do a petition to several of our stumbling stations or something...we may have between 50 and 100 people reading this board alone (not everyone posts), plus any HD friends each of us have that don't read the board. For example, KKTV needs to hear in numbers that we hate multicasting PQ and turning off HD for a flood watch in Podunk County... We could tell them that we'll watch more, and support their advertisers more, if they get their junk together. What do you think?

I just emailed a few people at KKTV to ask about the lack of DD5.1 sound - I'll report back if I hear anything.

Also emailed KOAA engineering & KRDO and asked when they might have DD5.1.

Rob
I still haven't heard back from KKTV - and they will certainly be getting a nasty gram if my CSI recording has no audio. Survivor was fine.

Quentin Henry @ KOAA said: "We have the equipment ordered. It should be before the end of the year."

Joe Reed @ KRDO said: "I have no date on when we will receive our Dolby encoders."

I don't think you will get very far with the weather warning complaint. Unless they spend $60K or whatever, to pass the Weather bug in HD, they will stick to the FCC rules of informing us of the impending distaster.

I'd certanly sign somethng you put together to voice our concerns about the sad state of HD in COS.

I called last night also and was told there would be major channel lineup changes coming real soon. I then asked for a refund for the missing channel 702 which we are paying for with the HD package and she gave me a one time 5 dollar credit. I'm just wondering how much we're going to have to shell out for the new 25 + channel HD programming once or if it gets here.

I called for the credit as well and the rep was clueless, but opened a ticket for a tech. Tech confirmed it was off the air and we got to talking about their DVR offerings. They've already swapped some MOXI's with the 6412, the standard Comcast HD DVR. Bigger hdd (120 vs. 80 gig) and less sensitive to signal strength (no built in modem), but less intuitive menu. They've already run out of their first batch.

Called back and the 2nd rep did credit my account and said they were coming out with a totally new HD DVR soon as well as more HD channels and a better price structure. We'll see.

RMD

I've been thinking that we might need to do a petition to several of our stumbling stations or something...we may have between 50 and 100 people reading this board alone (not everyone posts), plus any HD friends each of us have that don't read the board. For example, KKTV needs to hear in numbers that we hate multicasting PQ and turning off HD for a flood watch in Podunk County... We could tell them that we'll watch more, and support their advertisers more, if they get their junk together. What do you think?

This may sound obnoxious, but I think whenever anyone emails any of the local stations, they should list TallGuy's signature and this topic's website address. I bet none of the "technical" staff for these stations knows this site exists and how far ahead of them we are. . .

Yeah, good point, let's do it. I wish the engineers would read this routinely, and start to get competitive over trying to be the best HD station in town!

My view is that when the analog channels are turned off (Jan 2009?), then stations will work harder to get the digital channels working properly.

Roy

I bet none of the "technical" staff for these stations knows this site exists and how far ahead of them we are. . .

I can't imagine being on the tech staff, responsible for HDTV, and not being aware of this thread. They may not have time during their work day to monitor it, but I'd be on this thread off hours to see what the public is saying about my work, if I had the job.

I get the impression that they just don't care. With the exception of KXRM/FOX, seems like all the rest have been drug into HDTV kicking and screaming and offering up the very minimum, knowing that 2009 is coming up quick. Their only motivation is beaing able to stay in business once the plug is pulled on analog.

This may sound obnoxious, but I think whenever anyone emails any of the local stations, they should list TallGuy's signature and this topic's website address. I bet none of the "technical" staff for these stations knows this site exists and how far ahead of them we are. . .


One thing we might want to think about is bringing all of this to the attention of the national networks. After all, there is a lot of money being spent on advertising for CSI (for instance) and when the local station screws up their HD sound, that means none of us watched their commercials. It may even be that advertisers could request a refund for losing a market, or that the network could pressure the affiliate to get their act together.

I don't know how this stuff works, but it would seem like the national guys would HATE the fact that we turn off their station because the local pogues can't get the SD/HD thing right. I mean, I haven't watched Leno in weeks because of the lack of HD. I would assume SOMEONE back east must care...

BUT...who would we write? Anyone have any thoughts?

I get the impression that they just don't care.
Yup, this whole thing is just a pain in the ass for them. Their Cash Cow is analog, digital is just more work/money for the same revenue.
With the exception of KXRM/FOX, seems like all the rest have been drug into HDTV kicking and screaming and offering up the very minimum, knowing that 2009 is coming up quick. Their only motivation is beaing able to stay in business once the plug is pulled on analog.
Pretty much. However, their business models are changing, and multicasting offers them other revenue streams. So, they are getting motivated all right, but it has nothing to do with PQ.

I firmly believe that we've already seen the best PQ, and those dazzeling HD productions of the past are just that. I think that we are settling in to the dismal combination of mediocrity and profit. It won't get better.

However, don't give up yet. Those dazzeling HD productions will be back. But you'll need to pay for them! Once the satcos get the capacity up and available, I fully expect a 'super' HD offering. Again, open your wallets. Please remember that satcos and cablecos are not restrained with a 19.2 Mbs capacity.

So, while free OTA will continue to have quality degradation due to profit motives and bandwith limitations, the satcos and cablecos will be where the real quality will be found. If you are willing to pay for it.
....jc

Good point TPW. You get what you pay for, sometimes. With D* offering HDlite, I wonder what quality HD locals they will provide via mp4 in 2008.

As for Adlepicast, I will believe it when I see it. Their biggest negative is the crappy DVR.

Good point TPW. You get what you pay for, sometimes. With D* offering HDlite, I wonder what quality HD locals they will provide via mp4 in 2008.

As for Adlepicast, I will believe it when I see it. Their biggest negative is the crappy DVR.
I thought we were on the slate for MPEG-4 locals in 2007, and there's no clear indication they will water down the locals' PQ once they have the new satellites up and the ton of bandwidth finally available. But I would expect it to be equal to the broadcast affiliates' OTA signal, not better, not worse, if I had to guess. Apparently that's what it's been in Detroit and the other initial cities that went MPEG-4.

I thought we were on the slate for MPEG-4 locals in 2007, and there's no clear indication they will water down the locals' PQ

You could be right, but I just have no faith in D* anymore given their "just wait, we'll have more HD than anyone" claims since about 2003/4.

That and the fact that my HR10-250 will not accept mpg4 and I am not interested in a nonTivo DVR that does accept mpg4 and another 2 year contract.

2007/8/9... not trying to spread mis-information, but I just have lost interest in D* as a content provider given the many negatives mentioned above.

I've been thinking that we might need to do a petition to several of our stumbling stations or something...we may have between 50 and 100 people reading this board alone (not everyone posts), plus any HD friends each of us have that don't read the board. For example, KKTV needs to hear in numbers that we hate multicasting PQ and turning off HD for a flood watch in Podunk County... We could tell them that we'll watch more, and support their advertisers more, if they get their junk together. What do you think?

I will join the petition to add my disappointments with our locals and their handling of HD.

By the way, which Friday is the KOAA guide data supposed to be implemented???

I am a D* subscriber, but Comcast is sounding better all the time.... if they do actually add more HD channels.

I just got off the phone with my contact at D* and he claims that the HR10-250 will have KOAA Guide Data by Friday of this week. He mentioned he passed it on to one of the higher-ups in the Tier 2 Department. We will see.

~Josh
No luck as of Friday, or through today. Do we start the calling campaign again?

I have my manual repeating recordings set for NBC, but will be hosed as soon as they change their schedule if I don't notice ahead of time.

I am a D* subscriber, but Comcast is sounding better all the time.... if they do actually add more HD channels.
I've thought that too, but I think it only makes sense to see first in 2007 how many new channels are available from the new D* satellites - it could blow cable's capacity away, and if we've just switched to cable, there won't be any deals offered at that point to previous subscribers to return to DirecTV.

That and the fact that my HR10-250 will not accept mpg4 and I am not interested in a nonTivo DVR that does accept mpg4 and another 2 year contract.
I agree mostly, but not in an absolute sense, even though I'm a TiVo fanatic - the extra channels would still make a switch worth it. It's really ironic that DirecTV was the only choice in the past for TiVo (approx. 2002-2006) but going forward, cable will be the only choice for real TiVo. Well, a cable subscription, plus a $799 Series3 box, plus fees for two CableCards, plus a monthly/lifetime TiVo subscription fee... Yikes.

It's really ironic that DirecTV was the only choice in the past for TiVo (approx. 2002-2006) but going forward, cable will be the only choice for real TiVo. Well, a cable subscription, plus a $799 Series3 box, plus fees for two CableCards, plus a monthly/lifetime TiVo subscription fee... Yikes.
Or if (big if) Comcast offers a moto/Tivo box for $10/mo, adds more HD content and you could sign up with no 2 yr commitment.... No, $799 S3, No cable cards, no Tivo direct monthly fees, no 2 yr.... :rolleyes:

Just found this feature on my PC tuner card software, to tell me the bit rate for each channel. Remember each frequency has 19.3 Mbps total to allocate between its subchannels. Captured around 2:30-2:40 pm:

KOAA 5-1 NASCAR in HD (1920x1080) - 18.7 Mbps

KTSC 8-1 SD (704x480) - 8.0-10.3 Mbps

KKTV 11-1 NFL in HD - 11.1-14.9 Mbps depending on amount of motion
KKTV 11-2 constant black screen - 1.5 Mbps (are you kidding me?)
KKTV 11-3 Weather - 1.6-2.8 Mbps (for 640x480 stationary graphics with one line of scrolling text??)

KRDO 13-1 Golf upconverted (1280x720) - 15.7 Mbps
KRDO 13-2 SD channel (720x480) - 2.8-3.2 Mbps

KXRM 21-1 Bull Riding upconverted (1280x720) - 15.1-15.4 Mbps
KXRM 21-2 The Tube (720x480) - 2.2-3.7 Mbps

These are all OTA. For cable people, I don't know if cable uses the OTA feeds to pass along, or whether they get better feeds from the stations directly.

Has the Sunday Night NFL game on NBC been SD the whole time?? Good grief.

Also, I'm not watching "The War at Home" on Fox, but looks like KXRM forgot the good ol' HD switch too.

11-2 is kind of entertaining, watching the anchor get his mic on, wipe off his mouth, etc., not knowing the camera is on and broadcasting!

Has the Sunday Night NFL game on NBC been SD the whole time?? Good grief.
Not via D* West coast feed! :p
....jc

Has the Sunday Night NFL game on NBC been SD the whole time?? Good grief.

Also, I'm not watching "The War at Home" on Fox, but looks like KXRM forgot the good ol' HD switch too.

I checked about mid game and it was HD. I didn't watch for long, I was just checking what the deal with KUSA's Dolby '3.0' was but it didn't help - KOAA was sending 2.0 :(

Has the Sunday Night NFL game on NBC been SD the whole time?? Good grief....

1st half was HD, but with quite a few video/audio drops. Halftime show was near unwatchable. Somebody finally gave up and switched to the SD feed.

It would be interesting to know,

1) How many viewers in CS even watch the digital sub channels?
2) How many know they exist?
3) How many have the equipment to receive them?

Herein lies the problem. Until there are enough viewers of the digital sub channels, the stations will not spend a lot of time perfecting the PQ and sound. I suspect that they will only do this when forced to by the FCC in ’09. We are a small minority of viewers and we don’t have a lot of clout at present.

Anyone that thinks MPEG-4 is the holly grail will be disappointed. D* has the bandwidth now to transmit better quality but they have always favored quantity over quality. A friend in Houston gets the MP-4 feed for local channels from D* right now and it is no improvement over OTA, maybe worse. Think about it, compressing an MP-2 stream to Mp-4 is just another gear in D*’s bit grinder, regardless of the bandwidth. Does anyone really believe that D* is going to MP-4 for better quality?

Snuffy

1st half was HD, but with quite a few video/audio drops. Halftime show was near unwatchable. Somebody finally gave up and switched to the SD feed.

I'm getting the feeling that KOAA-DT is having major issues these days. Too much HD content has been missing of late.

It would be interesting to know,

1) How many viewers in CS even watch the digital sub channels?
2) How many know they exist?
3) How many have the equipment to receive them?
I saw an HD viewer survey recently. We are a bigtime minority. Only 3% of all HD viewers received their signal OTA.
....jc

I don't think you will get very far with the weather warning complaint. Unless they spend $60K or whatever, to pass the Weather bug in HD, they will stick to the FCC rules of informing us of the impending distaster.

I'd certanly sign somethng you put together to voice our concerns about the sad state of HD in COS.

even if they get it working, who wants to watch that stupid radar screen the whole time your trying to watch a program. Talk about distracting.

I don't know which channel it was I saw it on, but I remember noticing them print their station ID and logo across the bottom of an HD broadcast the other day. I thought that with that, they too would be able to broadcast motion text/graphics such as a crawler....I believe it was KRDO but not sure. Anyone else see this?

Ok, it's been a while on the HR10-250 missing Guide Data discussion. Any of you that had hopeful contacts with D* insiders make any progress yet?

I don't know which channel it was I saw it on, but I remember noticing them print their station ID and logo across the bottom of an HD broadcast the other day. I thought that with that, they too would be able to broadcast motion text/graphics such as a crawler....I believe it was KRDO but not sure. Anyone else see this?
I haven't seen the station Logo on KRDO's HD programs, that I remember. KXRM does show their 21 Logo (bug) on the lower right of HD programming. It is small, looks nice and not too obtrusive.
BTW, I briefly watched the 6:30 news on KKTV 11-2 yesterday and even though it was 480i it looked much sharper than their analog channel or 11-1.

Looks here like KOAA-DT is down to low power again. Reception numbers are really low and there's zero picture for me up here live (in Gleneagle, on an HD-TiVo). Looks like The Office started recording at 7:30 and then started breaking up horribly from middle to end. Same thing on last night's recording of The Tonight Show. AAARRRGGGHHH.

Considering KOAA is supposed to have the only teragigawatt signal in Colorado Springs, several times stronger than the rest, it's normally my lowest one to receive. Then when they drop power or have a problem, it's toast.

from http://www.koaa.com/info/#HDTV:

Currently Late Night programming is not HD due to an audio problem with the HD-DELAY SERVER. We hope to have this issue resolved soon. KOAA-DT has plans for Dolby 5.1 audio on network programming only. Dolby 5.1 audio should be on KOAA-DT by the end of this year, and before the Olympics for sure. KOAA-DT is the first FULL POWER digital television station in Colorado Springs, KOAA-DT is also currently the most powerful digital television station in the state of Colorado.

Per their website explination...

I'm confused...and you guys no better than me. But why would only KOAA's late night stuff be affected by the HD-Delay Server problem? Isn't everything in the mountain time zone delayed? What's so special about Leno and Conan?

Thanks for any insight!

Per their website explination...

I'm confused...and you guys no better than me. But why would only KOAA's late night stuff be affected by the HD-Delay Server problem? Isn't everything in the mountain time zone delayed? What's so special about Leno and Conan?
Yeah, I was wondering that too. Maybe the national NBC network center is providing a live feed to the Mountain time zone stations during our prime time hours, so that stations which don't have the equipment to timeshift HD can just switch to and from the HD feed. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, as to why only late night HD is affected by KOAA's equipment issue.

Is anybody out there receiving a normal-strength signal from KOAA-HD tonight?

DirecTV calls made by D* customers:
1. RMassey – 9/21 technical dept. said they would escalate
2. BWillette – 9/17 blown off by technical support
3. TallGuy – 9/21 level 2 logged an incident for Engineering to look at and contact me back (but they didn’t contact me)
4. BWillette #2 – 9/22 level 2 filed the incident and consulted with a “specialist”
5. TechPrep – 9/22 called his former manager at DirecTV who is discussing with D* Engineering
6. Blearyeyed – couple of calls to D*
7. BWillette #3 – 9/24 reported to a technical supervisor
8. Beatboy77 – 9/25 reported to his contact at D*, who promised guide data by 9/29

Calls/Emails to KOAA:
1. TallGuy (2)
2. Blearyeyed

Other D* customers affected, no calls logged:
1. longrider
2. davidfritz
3. cdb
4. TallGuy’s co-worker R.A.

FYI...D* Direct tech support # is 888-667-7463
_____________
I think our best chance is still TechPrep and Beatboy77 using their contacts at DirecTV - but maybe we should all call D* level 2/tech support again... at least we won't accept the line "you're the only one to report that"!

Tallguy, I'm getting KOAA tonight at about 85% level. Tried to watch CSI on KKTV but they were not broadcasting the HD signal. Very frustrating. Anybody have any info on KKTV's problems?

Do you mean 85% is about normal, or do you mean 15% lower than a normal level?

Maybe I need to do some troubleshooting around here...

I just checked and I am getting KOAA at 85% 45 miles from the mountain and over the Palmer divide

Regarding your post about complaint I have not filed once since they would probably just blow me off since I am officially in the Denver DMA

85% for KOAA is normal for me in Gleneagle.

DirecTV calls made by D* customers:
1. RMassey – 9/21 technical dept. said they would escalate
2. BWillette – 9/17 blown off by technical support
3. TallGuy – 9/21 level 2 logged an incident for Engineering to look at and contact me back (but they didn’t contact me)
4. BWillette #2 – 9/22 level 2 filed the incident and consulted with a “specialist”
5. TechPrep – 9/22 called his former manager at DirecTV who is discussing with D* Engineering
6. Blearyeyed – couple of calls to D*
7. BWillette #3 – 9/24 reported to a technical supervisor
8. Beatboy77 – 9/25 reported to his contact at D*, who promised guide data by 9/29

Calls/Emails to KOAA:
1. TallGuy (2)
2. Blearyeyed

Other D* customers affected, no calls logged:
1. longrider
2. davidfritz
3. cdb
4. TallGuy’s co-worker R.A.

FYI...D* Direct tech support # is 888-667-7463
_____________
I think our best chance is still TechPrep and Beatboy77 using their contacts at DirecTV - but maybe we should all call D* level 2/tech support again... at least we won't accept the line "you're the only one to report that"!


I also called D* on 8/29 and on 9/04 and both times reported to tech supervisor

Conan is back in HD tonight! Yay!

...KOAA-DT has plans for Dolby 5.1 audio on network programming only. Dolby 5.1 audio should be on KOAA-DT by the end of this year, and before the Olympics for sure...

WOW!!! Am I missing something or is the next Olympics scheduled for August, 2008 in Beijing? According to the official web site at http://www.beijing2008.com, that's 672 days away. End of this year is only 86 days away.

So what KOAA seems to be saying is that they will have Dolby 5.1 audio sometime between 86 and 672 days from now. Talk about hedging their bets!

Or am I missing something?

Ok, it's been a while on the HR10-250 missing Guide Data discussion. Any of you that had hopeful contacts with D* insiders make any progress yet?

I didn't get a chance to check on my HR10-250 last night (cooking in the kitchen, HD-Tivo in the basement theater room), but for what it's worth, my H10 upstairs has guide data for 5-1 last night for the first time I've noticed. That is to say, I saw "The Office" from 7:30 - 8:00 on the guide instead of "Regular Schedule" from 7:00 - 10:00pm.

Of course that's tempered by what the guide associated with that time slot. Clicking info on "The Office" did NOT show information about that show. Bizarre, but still some progress in my book.

Tallguy, I'm getting KOAA tonight at about 85% level. Tried to watch CSI on KKTV but they were not broadcasting the HD signal. Very frustrating. Anybody have any info on KKTV's problems?

I called KKTV last night during CSI, spoke to somebody in the news department who checked and said that their "prime time programming would be in SD tonight". He didn't say why. I said OK, thanks, I'll watch something else then.

Tallguy, I watched Earl and ER on 5-1 off the HR10-250 last night. Both looked fine, but I didn't go in and look at the signal meter. I live just up the street from you in FoxRun.

I did recently add an OTA signal preamp from Antennas Direct to be able to split my OTA signal without signal loss. it's funny that KOAA says they are the strongest signal in CO, but I had to get a preamp just to boost their signal, while all the rest come in at a strong 90 all the time, go figure. I typically get KOAA HD at 87/88 using a DB4 with the pre-amp.

Other D* customers affected, no calls logged:
1. longrider
2. davidfritz
3. cdb
4. TallGuy’s co-worker R.A.

FYI...D* Direct tech support # is 888-667-7463
_____________



Add me to affected, no calls logged. I'll call this weekend when I have time to deal with Direct's troubleshooting suggestions.

Re: HDTivo GUide Data for KOAA

OK, I just called back to followup on my 9/21 call to D* on the missing guide Data. I immediatley asked for Level 2 support to discuss OTA guide data. I spoke to very nice rep - Peggy (CSR # TULV1903) and she saw my previous inquiry, but did not see that it was escalated. She logged all the data in two places to escalate the issue. She also advised I call back in 7-10 days to follow up and keep buggin' them. I asked her for some kind of tracking or loggin number and she said it does not create one, and then offered me here CSR #, to be able to find the log entry. I didn't feel like this was BS, she was honestly trying to help me resolve/log the issue.

This was actualy a pretty nice call IMO, I got straight to Level2, They did not say the have never heard of the problem before, they did not say it comes to me via the antenna and did not say it was KOAA's fault. How refreshing :)

I also mentioned to her that several of us in COS have called to log this issue and she noted that as 'neighbors have the same problem" in the call log. Very nice IMO.

I don't have any greater hope of resolution, but at least I ddin't have to beat my head against the wall trying to expliang the whole situation over and over again to a level 1 rep.

TG, also - I recall I did send emial to KOAA once about the weather bug on HD and how I didn't care for it, if you are keeping track of that one.

Keep up the fight people, it may take a 1/2 hour to make the call, but this will not get resolved without constant presure from us.

I recorded shows off KOAA last night and the reception was perfect. I am in Pueblo and their signal usually hits low 90's for me and that is the strongest signal I get. Still no guide data but I will check again later.

Does anybody with an HD Tivo get audio dropouts on ESPN from time to time? It is only ESPN that I have this problem with and it usually during games, not Sportscenter. I kind of wonder if it might have something to do with low disk space on the Tivo because if I clear off some of my recordings the problem does seem to improve marginally. However, I never have this issue with the OTA channels so I am more inclined to think it has something to do with the compression.

Last, somebody mentioned that the Satellite company's aren't limited by 19.2 bandwidth. That won't make a difference on the HD quality for our locals because I am pretty sure that they have to use an OTA antenna just like we do to get the locals and then retransmit it from the satellite. When I lived in Boise, I had a friend that worked at an ISP who rented roof space for an antenna to Dish Network so they could offer locals in that market. I'm not sure how the signal gets back to the satellite but it will still be limited by the quality they pull in from the OTA antenna.

If the guide data doesn't show up this weekend for KOAA, I'll do my part and call D* and wade through the techs. My thanks to all who have been making efforts on this issue.

WOW!!! Am I missing something or is the next Olympics scheduled for August, 2008 in Beijing? According to the official web site at http://www.beijing2008.com, that's 672 days away. End of this year is only 86 days away.

So what KOAA seems to be saying is that they will have Dolby 5.1 audio sometime between 86 and 672 days from now. Talk about hedging their bets!

Or am I missing something?

672 days sounds about right given their past performance. The only thing that is surprising is that they didn't promise it would be up by the weekend and then delay it every month for 672 days.

TG, also - I recall I did send emial to KOAA once about the weather bug on HD and how I didn't care for it, if you are keeping track of that one.
Did you meant KKTV (CBS 11) on this one? I probably won't track that until after we get past the KOAA problem.

Did you meant KKTV (CBS 11) on this one? I probably won't track that until after we get past the KOAA problem.

Doh! - OK, I'm so confused. KKTV it was. Just wake me up when we get all four nets in HD without problems, please.

CSI not in HD last night, last week it was but there was no sound.

Jay Leno was in HD for all of 60 seconds then, SD.

KRDO, PFFFT...no clue.

Just wake me up when we get all four nets in HD without problems, please.
Are you going to sleep until 2009? :confused:
....jc

CSI not in HD last night, last week it was but there was no sound.

Jay Leno was in HD for all of 60 seconds then, SD.
The Tonight Show was HD for a couple minutes, then SD for a few, then HD again (with sound!) from roughly minutes 10-30 before I quit watching. I'm hoping that the last 50 minutes of it was all HD, but in any event, it seems they got that delay equipment working again with sound.

No idea why KKTV is falling down - engineers are drinking too much? They've had more reliable HD back in their first and second years of providing it.

Are you going to sleep until 2009? :confused:
....jc

Perhaps I should take a long nap and then maybe by 2009 my dream of HD in COS will come true.... :D

I've been watching the new program 'Shark' on 11-1. The first weeks Premiere was fine with HD and sound, Second week was in HD with no sound, third week was SD with sound. This is getting obnoxious. I wonder if CBS would be interested in this?

I have been experimenting, on my H-20, with the Guide Data issue. When I scan for channels the receiver senses 9 channels, 5-1, 8-1, 11-1, 11-2, 11-3, 13-1, 13-2, 24-1 and 24-2. The guide shows all 9 with channel 5-1 showing only the title of the programs offset by 1 minute early. 21-2 is identified as “Tube” with “Regular Programming”. I suspect THIS guide data is coming OTA from the stations themselves, via the PSIP data stream, required by the FCC.

When I set the “Primary Local Market” to my zip (80917), the receiver scans the market (Colorado Springs-Pueblo) then downloads guide data from D* and I lose 5-1 and 21-2 from the guide and can’t even access them by punching in the channel numbers. “The Tube” is not an issue for me since the programming is just some poor quality, old music videos. It is interesting that the newer guy in town, MYKKTV ch. 11-2 has full guide data after setting the Primary Local Market, why doesn’t 5-1 have any info? Either it is a giant D* conspiracy against KKTV or the guide data is not being transmitted to the Guide Service or D*, I suspect the latter. Any comments?

Is your H-20 an HD non DVR receiver, you don't have the new HR20-700 HD DVR, right?

Re 21-2: The Tube, perhaps it would make sence for this to always show 'Regular programming' since all they play is music videos with no 'real' programs, unlike MTV or VH1 reality show marathons.

Maybe My KTTV 11-2 is coming thru because it's a sub channel on 11 and they already have 11 guide data working. KOAA/5-1 is relatively new with HD broadcasts and they are still missing this on D*'s side.

Is your H-20 an HD non DVR receiver, you don't have the new HR20-700 HD DVR, right?

Re 21-2: The Tube, perhaps it would make sence for this to always show 'Regular programming' since all they play is music videos with no 'real' programs, unlike MTV or VH1 reality show marathons.

Maybe My KTTV 11-2 is coming thru because it's a sub channel on 11 and they already have 11 guide data working. KOAA/5-1 is relatively new with HD broadcasts and they are still missing this on D*'s side.
My receiver is an H-20-100. I don’t use Tivo, but record to a Panny DMR-E80H (works excellent with no Tivo Fees). I’ve been reading about the PSIP data stream the DTV stations are supposed to transmit. According to this article, http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Tech-Corner/f-rh-dtv-station.shtml, many stations are not sending the data correctly. The problem may be that KKTV is not sending the portion that links 5-1 to 5 for programming info. The element that may be incorrect or missing is the “Major Channel” element. From what I understand the 5-1 PSIP should include the major channel 5 so the programming which is identical to it will be shared with 5-1. Channels that do not share programming with the parent channel, of course, would not link to their parent, example; 22-2. I still need to study more.
See: http://www.psip.org/documents/PSIP_guide.pdf

IMHO, Snuffy :)

Doesn't the PSIP data generally just give information on the current show or maybe today's shows only? Since TiVo needs to plan recordings, its guide data is usually for the coming 10 days.

In any case, I don't think the TiVo even has the capability to read PSIP, since it expects the data to come from the D* satellite. Also supporting this is the fact that my PC OTA tuner does display guide information for 5-1, acquired from the PSIP data in the OTA stream, but of course the D* HR10-250 doesn't have that same info for the same channel.

Doesn't the PSIP data generally just give information on the current show or maybe today's shows only? Since TiVo needs to plan recordings, its guide data is usually for the coming 10 days.

In any case, I don't think the TiVo even has the capability to read PSIP, since it expects the data to come from the D* satellite. Also supporting this is the fact that my PC OTA tuner does display guide information for 5-1, acquired from the PSIP data in the OTA stream, but of course the D* HR10-250 doesn't have that same info for the same channel.
My H-20-100 allows you to scan the OTA channels without setting the Local Market and then I believe the guide data comes from the PSIP of the channels. The limited guide data I get from 5-1 is for only 24 hrs., as you said. Once you set the Local market the data then comes or doesn't come (5-1) from *D.

My theory may be all wet, but I'll keep looking. I've got a lot of time on my hands, retired electronic/computer technician, :) Snuffy

My theory may be all wet, but I'll keep looking. I've got a lot of time on my hands, retired electronic/computer technician, :) Snuffy

So why not call up KOAA and try to discuss this with their engineers. I don't know squat about PSIP data streams, but it sounds like you know enough to have a conversation with KOAA.

The problem is that KOAA has heard from a few DirecTV customers, and they think our issue is with the PSIP data. On one call I had a few weeks ago, Harold in Engineering said they were going to try to get some special equipment to test the PSIP data but they weren't sure what the problem was, and they didn't have any DirecTV equipment to try, etc... I couldn't convince him otherwise as my phone was breaking up and he was losing patience with me over that.

The PSIP focus gets KOAA on the total wrong track as to the source of this problem - they need to push DirecTV who would be more likely to listen to a TV station than to some of us. But they don't really care about DirecTV guide data that much.

11-2 is kind of entertaining, watching the anchor get his mic on, wipe off his mouth, etc., not knowing the camera is on and broadcasting!

That wasn't accidental--they were correctly thinking nobody was watching.

I am new to this board and occasionally viewed it as I have troubles with HD in the Colorado Springs area. My interest in the problems read about was heightened for me when the sound was not available for my wife watching CSI, a definite no-no in this household. I was more irritated with the lack of programming guide for 5-1 and thought I'd take a different tack then the rest of the members on this board. Instead of calling India tech support and going through the frustration all of you have endured, I sent a message to DirectTV via their web site and even included text I took from this board. I thought I should at least contribute something instead of always being a looker. From the response below, you can see that I did not fare very well.

----- Original Message -----
From: DIRECTV Customer Service
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:01 AM
Subject: No 5-1 program guide, Colorado Springs [Email ID: 061004-006467]

Subject
No 5-1 program guide, Colorado Springs

Discussion Thread
Response (Jessica K) 10/08/2006 07:01 AM

Thank you for writing. I am sorry to learn of the continuous problem trying to get the 5-1 channel in your program guide. Reviewing my systems I see that the channel that show 5-1, 5-2, etc. are scanned into the program guide using an off-air antenna. Some off-air local channel networks broadcast some programs in HDTV. You may be able to get your local network's HDTV programs using an off-air (rooftop) antenna in combination with your HDTV equipment.

However, if there is something that could be interfering with the signal being sent from the local affiliate, you may not scan the channel in your guide. If you need assistance scanning the off air channels in your guide please call 1-800-531-5000 and a representative would be more than happy to assist you.

Thank you again for writing. I hope this information has been helpful.

Sincerely,

Jessica K
DIRECTV Customer Service

Customer 10/04/2006 09:26 PM
DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE

Details: All of the HR10-250 users (and others) in Colorado Springs, Colorado do not have the 5-1 program guide. Part of the problem is convincing technical support the HR10-250 receives channel programming via satellite not OTA. Let me refer you to the local Colorado Springs chat board and you will see quite the discussion on this. Bottom line, can we get an honest troubleshooting of this problem?

I pick up most all of the HD stations in Colo. Springs from my house that is about 4 miles south of Castle Rock, 21.1, 8.1, 11.1, 13.1. I cannot get KOAA (5.1). Isn't the antenna on Cheyenne Mountain at the same location as the others? I can't figure out why I don't get KOAA when I get the others.

Thanks

PianoTuner, I've tried the email to DirecTV through their web site twice withabout the same luck - it's just too hard to get them to read the full facts you give them... It's really frustrating - I think it's just a mechanism for them to provide Level 1 pre-written answers to newbie customers.

a911sc - I think KOAA is on the same mountain - and though they're supposed to be sending a stronger UHF signal than the others, it's still my hardest one to receive consistently even from only 20-25 miles. I'm thinking about getting a good-quality amplifier to try out, though that may overload the sensitive tuner in the HD-TiVo...

I pick up most all of the HD stations in Colo. Springs from my house that is about 4 miles south of Castle Rock, 21.1, 8.1, 11.1, 13.1. I cannot get KOAA (5.1). Isn't the antenna on Cheyenne Mountain at the same location as the others? I can't figure out why I don't get KOAA when I get the others.

Thanks
While KOAA 5-1 does transmit at maximum FCC allowed power, few transmitters/antennas send the same power in all directions. KOAA being a Colorado Springs/Pueblo station, likely favors The Springs and Pueblo area at the expense of our neighbors to the north. This is common with radio stations and may be the situation here.

While KOAA 5-1 does transmit at maximum FCC allowed power, few transmitters/antennas send the same power in all directions. KOAA being a Colorado Springs/Pueblo station, likely favors The Springs and Pueblo area at the expense of our neighbors to the north. This is common with radio stations and may be the situation here.
Update: I checked the FCC website and indeed KOAA does have a directional antenna pointing 120 degrees azimuth (ESE). The Area of coverage does however include Castle Rock, though at a much lower signal strength.
See:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KOAA-TV
and
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1026431.html

I got a response back from someone at KKTV regarding the lack of DD 5.1. Here is the response:

I appreciate the input on the Dolby. I can tell you that the Dolby audio is the most difficult problem to deal with in the world of HD and digital compression. We have been broadcasting it for over a year. Recently there have been some changes from CBS that we are currently dealing with to get the Dolby back on air and get it right.

I know the other stations (we get together regularly) are having some issues as well launching this. We are working with CBS to install the latest equipment to handle the new metadata required to properly switch the Dolby audio.

I appreciate the input. We in the broadcast industry are dealing with a lot of changes. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Regards,
John Burrell
Chief Engineer

Thanks for the info - it's encouraging to know that they do want to provide it!

I wish they also wanted to provide more than 11 Mbps in their HD feed, but you know, a lot of people want to watch Fashion House on 11-2.

Anyone know what happened to 'Smith' tonight on 11-1/ 9PM. IT's now showing CSI and my recording history says it did not record because it's no longer in the guide? TitanTV has it listed on CBS at 9PM.

I guess I could aways just watch my Tivo's episodes of Fashion House.... :p

Anyone know what happened to 'Smith' tonight on 11-1/ 9PM. IT's now showing CSI and my recording history says it did not record because it's no longer in the guide? TitanTV has it listed on CBS at 9PM.

I guess I could aways just watch my Tivo's episodes of Fashion House.... :p


Smith was "cancelled". There was a note I saw about the show being pulled. No word on cancellation vs just going away for a while but you know what that means.

Smith was "cancelled". There was a note I saw about the show being pulled. No word on cancellation vs just going away for a while but you know what that means.

Bummer, it was one of the only new shows that kept my interest. I've already tuned out of Jerico, Kidnapped, and Justice.

Perhaps I could now catch up on 'Desire' :D

Just found this post - the show's been axed (as of 10/6) after only 3 epi's, claiming the dubious distinction of being the first show cancelled of the new season.

Sorry for the non COS/HD post content. I'll spot check the HD programming forum in the future.

Last Monday, I called D* for the 4th time about the lack of a Program Guide for KOAA-HD 5.1. This time I got a CSR (2nd Level), that did not give the usual cop-out answers. I was on the phone with him for well over an hour. Among other things, I mentioned this forum and thread and he read it, then escalated the problem to his supervisor. He stated that he thought the problem was a D* issue and would try to get the engineers to work on it. I asked for a reference number for the escalation and he said they assign a pin number but only keep them alive for 5 days. So far, nothing :( .

Today I called Quenton Henry, Chief Engineer at KOAA. We had a very cordial conversation about the guide data debacle. He has referred the issue to his people that have direct contact with D*. He stated concern for the guide problem and will re-check their PSIP data servers to assure they are setting the correct guide data. I also asked about the beaming of their DTV signal to the southeast (120 degrees azimuth) and he said it was forced on them by the FCC so as not to interfere with a Denver station or duplicate NBC programming in that market.

Snuffy101 AKA Don Quixote

Great information, thanks for all the effort, Snuffy!

It also explains why my KOAA signal is so crappy, and why they can't receive it at all in Castle Rock. Are there that many people directly southeast of Cheyenne Mountain? (not that the FCC cares)

Update: I checked the FCC website and indeed KOAA does have a directional antenna pointing 120 degrees azimuth (ESE). The Area of coverage does however include Castle Rock, though at a much lower signal strength.
See:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KOAA-TV
and
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1026431.html

Thanks Snuffy - maybe I need to turn my antenna a little and see if I can tune it in.

I also asked about the beaming of their DTV signal to the southeast (120 degrees azimuth) and he said it was forced on them by the FCC so as not to interfere with a Denver station or duplicate NBC programming in that market.
Yea, I'm surprised the FCC didn't just tell them to lower their power output to 1kW! Not only is KUSA broadcasting at low power, but they are also broadcasting from a temporary site(RP). So, it's really hard for anyone to determine who their future higher power signal will reach.

Thanks Snuffy - maybe I need to turn my antenna a little and see if I can tune it in.
Where ya gona aim it? :confused: Any antenna will need tweaking, but the place to start is always directly at Cheyenne Mtn.
....jc

Add me to affected, no calls logged. I'll call this weekend when I have time to deal with Direct's troubleshooting suggestions.


Me: Please add me to the list of Colorado Springs HR10-250 receiver owners that do not get KOAA guide data.

CSR: I'm sorry, sir, but our database shows you don't have an HR10-250. Would you please read back the card number to me?

Me: Card number is xxxxxxx......

CSR: Yes, OK, that card is registered with an H20 receiver. Did you want to upgrade to a DVR?

Me: Would you mind telling me how my "H20" is able to record?

It only took a half hour to get that straightened out, and at least I didn't get a "this is the first report we have on the guide issue". Level 2 CSR says she escalated the issue to engineering, and the "card reassignment specialist" CSR confirmed the escalation was entered in the database.

It only took a half hour to get that straightened out, and at least I didn't get a "this is the first report we have on the guide issue". Level 2 CSR says she escalated the issue to engineering, and the "card reassignment specialist" CSR confirmed the escalation was entered in the database.

Hmmm Too bad that conversation will cost you another two year commitment with D*. After all they have to ensure a steady revenue stream to fund those expensive customer calls.... :eek:

Thanks Snuffy - maybe I need to turn my antenna a little and see if I can tune it in.
As goofy as this sounds, try bypassing your amp. Sometimes you can get an overload or multi-path signal that will distort or trap a certain frequency. Possible, by not likely, your amp could be bad and attenuating the signal rather than amplifying it. That happened to me many years ago in Texas. With the antenna you have (4228), you should be able to pickup KOAA unless you are in a hole or shadowed by a mountain or some other obstruction.
I mentioned your problem to Quentin Henry the other day on the phone and he said people in Castle Rock and south Denver report getting their signal okay, and you might be in a "hole" or null area.

I can report that 20 miles due east of Castle Rock I receive KOAA just fine with a 4228 antenna and 7777 preamp. However I have no obstructions to the south other than curvature of the earth.

If anyone has experience with the DirecTv HR20-700 HD-DVR, I would be interested in any comments. I understand the latest model receives the local HD channels through the box, and so the off-air antenna becomes unnecessary...? Does the guide data come through from Channel 5-1...? Pros & Cons...? Thanks!

I have talked to D* about the guide data issues and have also talked directly with a service tech. about that, and of course, as with others, no definitive responses.

Unfortunately the CS HD locals are not carried by D* yet. Also the OTA tuner in the HR20 is not yet active but should be turned on before the end of the year. If you 'move' to Denver you can those HD locals via D*, I know its a spot beam but I cant imagine it being that tight since the Denver DMA goes down to the El Paso county line so they have to cover down to there.

Unfortunately the CS HD locals are not carried by D* yet. Also the OTA tuner in the HR20 is not yet active but should be turned on before the end of the year. If you 'move' to Denver you can those HD locals via D*, I know its a spot beam but I cant imagine it being that tight since the Denver DMA goes down to the El Paso county line so they have to cover down to there.

THANKS for the info !!

Longrider is right. And on your other question, I believe that the HR20 would not be able to get any guide data for 5-1 since DirecTV can't seem to find it at all...

I just wish we didn't have to abandon the TiVo brand and interface. I've heard about the initial bugs with the HR20, and I'm pretty sure that DirecTV will get their software as good as TiVo...

TechPrep and Beatboy77 - any luck with your DirecTV sources regarding the KOAA 5-1 guide data problem? We need another push.

I thought the Broncos on KOAA/NBC tonight looked like pretty good HD picture quality. The 1080i was very crisp at times, and better than football on our local CBS and ABC, or ESPN via D* at least as I recall. That 18.7Mbps really helps!

KKTV, you are usually 11-13 Mbps now that we're in multicasting hell, please take note for crying out loud.

We are getting pretty lucky getting the Broncos in HD this year every game so far. For example, the Ravens fans were shut out of HD through their first 4 games. Next week Broncos vs. the Browns, you wouldn't think would be chosen as one of the 3 CBS HD games, but it is! Then of course the 10/29 game vs. the Colts is CBS HD, and I would bet that the 11/5 game vs. the Steelers will be too though it hasn't been announced on the CBS web site yet. Pretty good chances for most of the remainder of the season too - 2 games vs. the Chargers, Thanksgiving vs. the Chiefs (NFL Network HD hopefully on all carriers), etc. Probably SD for the next Raiders game and the Cardinals game, though.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

I thought the Broncos on KOAA/NBC tonight looked like pretty good HD picture quality.

I thought so too. Gotta give good feedback when they do things right.

Thanksgiving vs. the Chiefs (NFL Network HD hopefully on all carriers)

Is NFL Network in HD on D*? I only get it on channel 212 in SD.

TechPrep and Beatboy77 - any luck with your DirecTV sources regarding the KOAA 5-1 guide data problem? We need another push.


No word back yet. I will try to contact him again this week.

~Josh

Same here. I will try again right now.

Is NFL Network in HD on D*? I only get it on channel 212 in SD.
I'm assuming that D* will put it on 95 or 96 since it's a national game and everyone in a turkey stupor (of the male variety) likes to pass out in front of the TV. Hopefully not just for NFL Sunday Ticket folks - but it's not on a Sunday...

I'm assuming that D* will put it on 95 or 96 since it's a national game and everyone in a turkey stupor (of the male variety) likes to pass out in front of the TV. Hopefully not just for NFL Sunday Ticket folks - but it's not on a Sunday...
I would hope so, but I have my doubts. I believe that KDVR(Denver Fox) has the local broadcast rights. So, D* could conceivably black out the game in Colorado(remember the preseason game?). So, maybe no blackout at all, or they give the feed to KXRM. But if D* doesn't black it out, I expect it to be on channel 95.
....jc

But if they black it out like that, that would apply to the SD game on NFL Network too, which would hack off a ton of Broncos fans all over the state who can't receive KDVR. In any event, we should get Andy Wineke from the Gazette to check on it the week before - he can probably get answers in advance easier than we can.

But if they black it out like that, that would apply to the SD game on NFL Network too, which would hack off a ton of Broncos fans all over the state who can't receive KDVR.
Sure it would. It would hack me off if only the HD feed was blacked out. But I've seen too much of this 'We Own You' crap from broadcasters, to doubt that they wouldn't pull it.
...jc

:)
Update on 5.1 Guide data issue (good news!):

After my former manager didn't seem to get anywhere with the issue, I reached out to another former supervisor of mine who is directly connected with the ISS department (tech support for installations).

He was happy to help me get things looked at and here's what he sent me today (I'll include the e-mail trail from the beginning, but redacted to protect my identity and those of the people working on the issue) Read from the bottom up:

From:
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:20 AM
To: Subject: FW: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs



Hi __, we are working to correct the problem...see details below.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:38 PM
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs



Thanks, __ and __. (See ___’s comment below.)



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:36 PM
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs



The problem is that our guide data service is providing a bad DMA name, so the station isn't getting added to the guide, so the IRD can't correlate anything to the terrestrial signal. This results in no listings. Our guide group is going to contact TMS and get them to fix this. TBD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 3:24 PM
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs

FYI - We loaded the Colorado Springs zip code into local market search on an HR10-250 and an H20. The local network area setup loaded the OA info for all of the HD nets except for NBC 5.1. I used zip code 80901 and 81212 but I don’t think it mattered because it lets you pick the market name; it had the same result for both no info for 5.1. It’s as if this channel info has not been correctly sent to the satellite.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:03 PM
To:
Subject: FW: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs



FYI:

___ and I both tried to duplicate this on two different receivers. Will forward.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:49 PM
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs



___,



Can you take ___’s HR10-250 and try to duplicate. Thanks,




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:09 PM
To:
Subject: FW: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs



Will you please have some of your team try loading some of our IRDs with the Co. Springs zip and see if the off-air info will populate for this channel? Thanks.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 11:40 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs



___,



Can you find out if this shows up OK with any of our other HD receivers. What happens if they do a channel scan vs. inputting the zip code.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:51 AM
To:
Subject: FW: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs
Importance: High

Team,

Anyway to address the issue below? Thanks.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:54 AM
To:
Cc:
Subject: FW: Question - HR10-250 and NBC HD in CO Springs
Importance: High



I am not sure if you are aware of this but the guide data on the HR10-250 for KOAA-DT (Channel 5.1, NBC-HD) in Colorado Springs is just showing “Regular Scheduled Programming” 24-7. Because of this, you can’t set up season passes, or anything. We have verified that the guide data comes from the satellite (we have changed our zip code to LA or Boston for example and the guide re-populates with all the local channel info for those markets even though we can’t physically receive them). This is not an isolated issue. All users of HR10-250’s in the Colorado Springs market are experiencing the same issue. This has been occurring since the inception of the channel a few months ago. Various customers (see below) have tried numerous avenues of trying to get the problem resolved, without success. We need someone within DIRECTV to acknowledge the issue and take ownership.

Can you please help? I’ll be happy to talk to anyone who needs more information.

That is tremendous. Seeing specifics like that shows that someone finally recognizes what is happening in the database. I always wondered if it was caused by a typo, a bad code, or a different way of referring to the channel or the market. The emails say it's a bad DMA name from TMS - and I called Tribune Media Services over a month ago to try to get them to check their database for KOAA! Too bad they didn't really want to look into the issue just on my word alone...

TechPrep, thanks a ton for getting this to the right person. When they fix it, can you let them know that there are at least 20 calls into Customer Service that went nowhere? That's another thing that's broken in this situation!

I've lost all 3 KKTV digital channels since about 3:30 this afternoon. Is it just me or is everyone experiencing this? No message on their website.

I've lost all 3 KKTV digital channels since about 3:30 this afternoon. Is it just me or is everyone experiencing this? No message on their website.

I just checked at 7:30 and they are all working for me.

Yep, no problems here either.

Wow TechPrep, that some real progress. Good job. Lets hope this get resolved soon.

Why-O-why did it take so many calls from a dozen of us just to get this kind of testing by D*? Looks like it took about a day (8 am to 4:30 pm) of testing. When did KOAA go HD, August?

Within the last hour Directv has loaded what looks like a complete Program Gude for 5-1. I'm getting it on my H20. :D

Thanks to "TechPrep" and all, KOAA 5-1 is finally here :D :) :D :)

Update: At first I had 2, 5-1 channels. I had to clear, scan and set Local Market to get the H20 to settle down. Looks and works fine now.

I didn't fire up my HR10-'s last night because, by the time I got home (took me 2.5 hours for a normally 1-hour commute!**) I was too tired to go downstairs and turn on the projector for what I knew would be a short time before I fell asleep in front of the TV.

Can anyone with an HR10 verify if the data has been corrected yet? (I'll check tonight, because I'll be downstairs watching Lost and the Nine).





**side note: why do people stop IN THE MIDDLE OF I-25 during a snowstorm? I swear I had to literally drive around people who just stopped here and there in the snow, both lanes (this was between exits 167 Greenland and 163 County Line Road on I-25 SB)!! It was a crazy commute last night -- I can't wait to see what happens when we get a REAL snowstorm! :confused:

Yesterday I had to have Adelphia come out and take a look at my signals for bad internet speeds and bad cable reception.
While he was there we were talking about HD and he said if your TV has a built-in digital tuner, which mine does, you can pick up the Adelphia HD channels ESPN and Discovery without their box. I did a re-scan but that didn't work for me.
Has anybody else been able to do that?

He also said they are adding more HD channels around Dec or Jan and boosting our internet speeds to.

Yesterday I had to have Adelphia come out and take a look at my signals for bad internet speeds and bad cable reception.
While he was there we were talking about HD and he said if your TV has a built-in digital tuner, which mine does, you can pick up the Adelphia HD channels ESPN and Discovery without their box. I did a re-scan but that didn't work for me.
Has anybody else been able to do that?

He also said they are adding more HD channels around Dec or Jan and boosting our internet speeds to.

From what i understand, you need a Cable Card in order to get ANYHTING but analog from cable. I do not have a built in tuner, but i do have HD TV tuner and i am not able to get anything but local HD on it.
IMO, and i do not mean to offend anyone, the techs from Adelphia know Nothing about HD. I personally feel insulted when i get told that a Tech has to hook up the HD boxes b/c they are sophisticated equipment, then the tech comes out and they know nothing about HD, Don't have HD and ask me what my optical cable is for.

Checking my HR10-250 now, I see guide info in the program header when I select info, but when I select the guide (list and grid) to look ahead, it's still empty and show Regular schedule. Perhaps it will take a few hours/days to fully populate. Although when I go to create a 5-1 season pass, I am finding all the guide data for programs. When I check for upcoming programs, it show the programs with info.

thanks TechPrep and all those that made this happen.

**side note: why do people stop IN THE MIDDLE OF I-25 during a snowstorm? I swear I had to literally drive around people who just stopped here and there in the snow, both lanes (this was between exits 167 Greenland and 163 County Line Road on I-25 SB)!! It was a crazy commute last night -- I can't wait to see what happens when we get a REAL snowstorm! :confused:
Yea, no sh!t. I saw 4x4's spinning because they weren't in 4 wheel, and cars passing 4x4's who cruising at 10mph. Arrrggg!


While he was there we were talking about HD and he said if your TV has a built-in digital tuner, which mine does, you can pick up the Adelphia HD channels ESPN and Discovery without their box. I did a re-scan but that didn't work for me.
Caveat - Your set must have a tuner that can decode QAM. An OTA tuner is not enough. Some sets have them and some just have OTA.
....jc

Caveat - Your set must have a tuner that can decode QAM. An OTA tuner is not enough. Some sets have them and some just have OTA.
....jc

okay...when I do go and do a channel scan it ask for what type, STD, IRC or HRC and then it asks to adopt for QAM transmission....but still don't get it...wonder if my HDTV is too old...?

OK, guide data is now gone..... it was fun while it lasted.

Checking my HR10-250 now, I see guide info in the program header when I select info, but when I select the guide (list and grid) to look ahead, it's still empty and show Regular schedule. Perhaps it will take a few hours/days to fully populate. Although when I go to create a 5-1 season pass, I am finding all the guide data for programs. When I check for upcoming programs, it show the programs with info.

okay...when I do go and do a channel scan it ask for what type, STD, IRC or HRC and then it asks to adopt for QAM transmission....but still don't get it...wonder if my HDTV is too old...?
The fact that it mentions QAM, makes me think that it should be able to handle it.

Now, where are you attaching the cable? My widescreen(Mits) wants the input to be connected to the 'digital' connector. This is where I connect my OTA antenna feed. WP cable doesn't have HD, so nothing to test with up here.

On my D* LG LSS HD receiver there are 3 coax connectors(Sat, OTA, & Cable). Again, never been able to test the 'cable' connector. :(
....jc

OK, guide data is now gone..... it was fun while it lasted.

Came home from work and guide data wasn't there. I then did a clear scanned channels, then a scan for off air channels and it is there now.

OK, I still have not been able to get back my KKTV digital signals. It will flicker on briefly for a few seconds occassionally and then go away. It will not lock on. I have turned the outdoor antenna around, I've added an amp, replaced coax in the house. ARRRGH!

BTW, I'm behind a ridge near Dublin & Rangewood (no LOS), and receive my channels by pointing SE... never had a problem before yesterday.

I have a DISH 942 and 622, and neither will pick up any of the 3 channels (but strangely enough, I am still getting channel guide info).

I know it is the only VHF channel in town, would that have anything to do with it? Have they reduced their signal for some reason?

Any ideas?

OK, I still have not been able to get back my KKTV digital signals. It will flicker on briefly for a few seconds occassionally and then go away. It will not lock on. I have turned the outdoor antenna around, I've added an amp, replaced coax in the house. ARRRGH!
Ok, back to basics...

What type of antenna do you have?
Are you using a mast mounted preamp?
Have you tried w/o the preamp?
How long is the cable run?
Why are you pointing the antenna SE? Isn't Cheyenne Mtn about due South, or even a bit SW from there?

....jc

Ok, back to basics...

What type of antenna do you have?
RCA ANT 3036X on 30 ft mast.

Are you using a mast mounted preamp?
No

Have you tried w/o the preamp?
Yes, just purchase a 10db amp to try, did not help.

How long is the cable run?
Maybe 50 ft.

Why are you pointing the antenna SE? Isn't Cheyenne Mtn about due South, or even a bit SW from there?
I have a hill and house in the way, I guess I'm getting a bounce of a local house.


....jc

What type of antenna do you have?
RCA ANT 3036X on 30 ft mast.

Are you using a mast mounted preamp?
No

Have you tried w/o the preamp?
Yes, just purchase a 10db amp to try, did not help.

How long is the cable run?
Maybe 50 ft.

Why are you pointing the antenna SE? Isn't Cheyenne Mtn about due South, or even a bit SW from there?
I have a hill and house in the way, I guess I'm getting a bounce of a local house.

This setup has been working since December, and now all of a sudden it doesn't.
Thanks!

Have you tried w/o the preamp?
Yes, just purchase a 10db amp to try, did not help.
Was this amp mast mounted?
Why are you pointing the antenna SE? Isn't Cheyenne Mtn about due South, or even a bit SW from there?
I have a hill and house in the way, I guess I'm getting a bounce of a local house.
Ok. Try pointing the antenna toward Cheyenne Mtn. If one of your receivers has a 'signal strength' meter, you might use it.

This setup has been working since December, and now all of a sudden it doesn't.
Maybe the house moved? :p

Even w/o LOS, you still want to point toward the source. Sometimes bounced signals do work, but they usually aren't very reliable. Ham guys sometimes use the moon! :eek:
....jc

Came home from work and guide data wasn't there. I then did a clear scanned channels, then a scan for off air channels and it is there now.

OK, I gave this a try, same results - channel banner shows program guide data, select Guide and 5-1 on left shows 'Regular Schedule' on left of List guide, right side is completely blank. Select 5 (SD) and right side shows programs from 6:30-11:30 as expected. What gives...?

Also, I tried a reboot, involuntarily due to a nice 6.3a reboot issue when I create new SP's. (long story) - but I have rebooted twice today due to this new 'feature'.

.


None of the Colorado Springs locals have started broadcasting a digital signal yet. As mentioned previously KKTV (channel 11) will be the first to get one on the air, it will be channel 10.

Here's what I got from KOAA.

http://www.koaa.com/community/listens/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=807

As far as your RS antenna is concerned, take it back. I have had great results with my Terk TV55. It cost me $100 at SoundTrack. I am hopefull that it will perform as well for DTV as it has for analog.

For those of you in the Colorado Springs/ Southern colorado area, Dishnetwork is getting closer to having our locals on their system. Click on the link below and go to the very bottom of the page.

http://www.dishchannelchart.com/


That's great news.I have the dish 622 and recently got a Sony XBR3 and was surpirised using the Zenith indoor Silver Sensor antenna to get all 5 Colorado Springs/Pueblo HDTV OTA channels.Infact I noticed that going direclty through the antennae on the TV produced a slightly better image than connecting through the Dish 622.Why my surprise?
Well I'm according to www.antennaweb.org about 18.2 miles form the CS transmitters and I'm in Woodland Park.I must have a near perfect angle as NBC 5.1 (Pueblo) comes in at 98-100% signal strength an the rest at 68-86%.
I really count myself as very fortumate to get HDTV OTA as the Dish installer said no way and didn't even try the antenna.

OK, I gave this a try, same results - channel banner shows program guide data, select Guide and 5-1 on left shows 'Regular Schedule' on left of List guide, right side is completely blank. Select 5 (SD) and right side shows programs from 6:30-11:30 as expected. What gives...?
I see basically the same thing. With one large caveat: I don't receive KOAA at all. My channel 5 & 5.1 come from KGWN in Cheyenne. :confused:

Well I'm according to www.antennaweb.org about 18.2 miles form the CS transmitters and I'm in Woodland Park.
Welcome to the party! I thought that I was the only one from WP that posts! Judging from your description, my guess is that you live East of Hwy 24, maybe on the hillside?
....jc

OK, I gave this a try, same results - channel banner shows program guide data, select Guide and 5-1 on left shows 'Regular Schedule' on left of List guide, right side is completely blank. Select 5 (SD) and right side shows programs from 6:30-11:30 as expected. What gives...?

Also, I tried a reboot, involuntarily due to a nice 6.3a reboot issue when I create new SP's. (long story) - but I have rebooted twice today due to this new 'feature'.

I just checked again at 8:20 PM and I still have guide data for 5.1

Was this amp mast mounted?

Ok. Try pointing the antenna toward Cheyenne Mtn. If one of your receivers has a 'signal strength' meter, you might use it.


Maybe the house moved? :p

Even w/o LOS, you still want to point toward the source. Sometimes bounced signals do work, but they usually aren't very reliable. Ham guys sometimes use the moon! :eek:
....jc

The amp was not mast mounted, it was one of those 10 db indoor signal amplifiers, might try the 25db one.

Signal strengths with antenna pointed the way it is-

5 - 94
8 - 75
13 - 90
21 - 89
11 used to be around 73, now it is showing zero :(

I looked and I'm pretty sure the house didn't move. :cool:

This is very frustrating! Anything to do with 11 being VHF???

I just checked again at 8:20 PM and I still have guide data for 5.1

Are you seeing it with the Guide button selected or only the channel banner when selecting info?

The amp was not mast mounted, it was one of those 10 db indoor signal amplifiers, might try the 25db one.
Just say no! It won't help. In fact, if it's not mast mounted, the amp becomes more of a distribution amplifier than a pre-amplifier.

This is very frustrating! Anything to do with 11 being VHF???
If I looked at the correct antenna, it's a UHF/VHF combo. If it's connected properly, this has nothing to do with KKTV being VHF. In fact most UHF antennas will receive high VHF stations.

Your best bet is to point the antenna toward Cheyenne Mtn. Try moving it to different locations on your roof(or where ever it is). Signal patterns are not always evenly distributed from the transmitting antenna. Especially when there are obstructions.
....jc

Are you seeing it with the Guide button selected or only the channel banner when selecting info?

Both

I just tested both my HR10s and the guide data is there!! :p

So, I cleared the scanned channels and re-scanned to get rid of the duplicate on 1 box and when "The Nine" finishes recording on the other, I will do the same on that one.

Thanks to all the fellow posters who spent time on the issue. I will officially thank my contacts at DIRECTV tomorrow!

I just checked on my H20 and I have full guide data for 5.1 both in the guide and on the channel info.

Also I amm receiving an excellent signal on 11.1 at 45 miles from the mountain

YES, WE HAVE GUIDE DATA FROM DIRECTV ON KOAA 5-1 !!

I've reprogrammed my Season Passes - now they will have names in my Now Playing List!

Thank you TechPrep for having the right connections and working on them for us. And I suppose the engineering folks don't care, but it would be nice to tell someone important at DirecTV that Customer Service did not properly resolve at least 20 calls on this issue, even calls to Level 2. Many of those calls, they didn't even believe us... Anyone know a Customer Service Manager at D*?

RMassey - do you by chance have your guide set to Favorite Channels only? (via the Info button while in Guide...) You could be looking at the "old" 5-1 instead of the new 5-1. Tonight my guide had both old (no guide data) and new (with guide data). But I bet Favorites would only show the one you had had selected before. Could be the same concept with Channels I Receive vs. All Channels.

Bingo Tallguy - Had it set to favorites, went into ch list and I see 5-1 KOAADT (no thumbs), and 5-1 KOAA HD (w/ THumbs), swapped these and now I see the guide data. Not sure why I have two, I even did an off air ch scan today.

thanks for the tip :)

And I suppose the engineering folks don't care, but it would be nice to tell someone important at DirecTV that Customer Service did not properly resolve at least 20 calls on this issue, even calls to Level 2. Many of those calls, they didn't even believe us... Anyone know a Customer Service Manager at D*?


I actually worked for the National Command Center and reported to the Vice President of Customer Care. I will send her an e-mail with all the details (directly). I don't know if it will change anything in the long run, but it doesn't hurt to try. We often had to cull together ad-hoc reports for her on things that were happening with customers on specific issues, and she was always one to take it to the frontline managers and personnel for answers as to the "why's"

Glad everyone is getting their guide data now! (I just recreated all my SP's as well.)

I actually worked for the National Command Center and reported to the Vice President of Customer Care. I will send her an e-mail with all the details (directly). I don't know if it will change anything in the long run, but it doesn't hurt to try. We often had to cull together ad-hoc reports for her on things that were happening with customers on specific issues, and she was always one to take it to the frontline managers and personnel for answers as to the "why's"

Glad everyone is getting their guide data now! (I just recreated all my SP's as well.)
Great - and give her a link to this thread starting about a month ago!

Bingo Tallguy - Had it set to favorites, went into ch list and I see 5-1 KOAADT (no thumbs), and 5-1 KOAA HD (w/ THumbs), swapped these and now I see the guide data. Not sure why I have two, I even did an off air ch scan today.
Apparently my H20 would not forget the first occurence of 5-1, so I had two. The way I got rid of the duplicate (old 5-1, no guide) was to set the Local Market to my Zip. If you are setup for other markets, Denver etc., this may not be a solution.

Apparently my H20 would not forget the first occurence of 5-1, so I had two. The way I got rid of the duplicate (old 5-1, no guide) was to set the Local Market to my Zip. If you are setup for other markets, Denver etc., this may not be a solution.

I've always only set my local market to my actual zip, so not sure why it's still there :confused:

That's weird. I only did the 2-step Clear & Re-scan on both my HR10's and it got rid of the duplicates and left only the good one. I never changed my zip code or anything.

That's weird. I only did the 2-step Clear & Re-scan on both my HR10's and it got rid of the duplicates and left only the good one. I never changed my zip code or anything.
It would seem that D*'s boxes are not consistent, what a surprise :rolleyes: . I am so happy to finally have all guide data for the OTA channels that I watch.

Anybody know, if and when D* starts supplying the local channels via satellite, will we still be able to get them OTA?

Also, I tried a reboot, involuntarily due to a nice 6.3a reboot issue when I create new SP's. (long story) - but I have rebooted twice today due to this new 'feature'.

I'm having the same problem with my HR10-250 w/ 6.3a rebooting each time I create a Season Pass! I thought maybe the box was heading south, but are you saying this is a known issue? Guess I need to go to the TiVo Community website and look around.

This "feature" sure is a pain as I try to convert all my manual recordings to season passes for the NBC shows!! :mad:

Rob

TechPrep:

I cannot thank you enough for getting this issue resolved!!
I was sick and tired of looking at my grid of TV shows to see what show "5-1 KOAADT Monday 8:00", etc. was!!
And with shows like Kidnapped already moving nights, it was only a matter of time until we missed a show.

Thank you,
Rob

I'm having the same problem with my HR10-250 w/ 6.3a rebooting each time I create a Season Pass! I thought maybe the box was heading south, but are you saying this is a known issue? Guess I need to go to the TiVo Community website and look around.

This "feature" sure is a pain as I try to convert all my manual recordings to season passes for the NBC shows!! :mad:

Rob

here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319702&page=7&pp=30) post #181 - there is another COS HR10 user having the exact same problem.

I started a thread about it too
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=321384

I may just opt to install a 400 gb drive and reimage it, see if that helps.

at least it only does it during creation of a new SP and not randomly, like I had with 6.2 on the HDVR2.

That's weird. I only did the 2-step Clear & Re-scan on both my HR10's and it got rid of the duplicates and left only the good one. I never changed my zip code or anything.

Ahh, OK, I didn't do the 2 step clear and re-scan, I only did a re-scan. I'll try it again 2nite.

I hate to rub salt in the wound, but maybe you guys just have bad boxes? I re-created all my SP's last night and no re-boots (and no other problems since 6.3 either *knock wood!*)

If it's any consolation, I might have my 2 boxes available for sale soon if I decide to dump DTV altogether and go the standalone route to take advantage of my complimentary Comcast service from my new employer.

Thanks for the offer Tech, but I am in the "I will not activate any new boxes with D*' mode to avoid extending my current contract. I want to drop them like a bad habit and move to the S3 or see if Comcast offer a Tivo based DVR next year.

I could have a bad box, but I know of three others that are having this same problem, all in COS and all using manual recordings to bypass the previous missing guide data. My HR10 was working fine before 6.3a and now has this quirk. My options are C&D everything or swap out the drive, but I WILL not activate a new box with D* and extend my contract.

It would seem that D*'s boxes are not consistent, what a surprise :rolleyes: . I am so happy to finally have all guide data for the OTA channels that I watch.

Anybody know, if and when D* starts supplying the local channels via satellite, will we still be able to get them OTA?
Yes you will still get OTA. It will show up as CS11 - sat SD, KKTV - sat HD, and KKTV-DT - OTA HD

I see basically the same thing. With one large caveat: I don't receive KOAA at all. My channel 5 & 5.1 come from KGWN in Cheyenne. :confused:
I might be wrong as I'm not there now but thought the 5.1 was out of Pueblo.

Welcome to the party! I thought that I was the only one from WP that posts! Judging from your description, my guess is that you live East of Hwy 24, maybe on the hillside?
....jc
Your right and I think that makes a big difference.Although I thought Rampart Range would cause some degradation.But it looks like my indoor is shooting right down the valley.
Welcome to HD world :)

I might be wrong as I'm not there now but thought the 5.1 was out of Pueblo.
Yea, this is a bit confusing. I'm willing to bet that any KOAA signals that you're receiving(in WP) are coming from Cheyenne Mtn and not Pueblo.

Analog is K30AA channel 30(remember 5/30?)
Digital is KOAA channel 42 which remaps to 5.*

Now channel 5 analog is indeed broadcasting from near Pueblo. But anyone with cable or satellite(in C/S) is probably really viewing K30AA from Cheyenne Mtn. And, I believe that the only digital signal from KOAA is also from Cheyenne Mtn.
....jc

I turned on the Tivo tonight and finally had guide data on 5-1. I then checked this thread and I guess I wasn't the first to notice. I had no problems setting my NBC season passes (no reboots). Thanks for everyone's efforts on this. I am not worthy.

Some Adelphi-cast comments:

I actually got a (the?) :D knowledgeable guy installing my HD service back when the Moxi box first came out. He was training another tech as well.

We got a Welcome to Comast letter early last week or so saying changes were coming, so it's good to hear that we'll get some more HD channels. I hope we don't lose the HDNet channels though. Triple play will be coming so maybe I can save some $$ by dumping Quest on the home phone.


IMO, and i do not mean to offend anyone, the techs from Adelphia know Nothing about HD. I personally feel insulted when i get told that a Tech has to hook up the HD boxes b/c they are sophisticated equipment, then the tech comes out and they know nothing about HD, Don't have HD and ask me what my optical cable is for.

I was at the altitude web site and noticed at the bottom of this page (http://www.altitude.tv/HD/Channels.aspx) that DirecTV gives Altitude HD on channel 97 in Denver and surrounding areas. I checked the DirecTV online guide and 97 shows nothing for 80921 but it does show programming for 80236 (Denver), even a ways down into Elbert county... Does anyone know why we don't get Altitude HD here in the Springs? I don't think it could be blackout restrictions b/c we get Altitude HD...

--Ron

Does anyone know if/when the CW will be making the switch to digital? I was briefly watching Survivor last night, then all of a sudden the CW network appeared for about 10 seconds and then changed back to Survivor. Some kind of glitch, but now I'm curious because obviously it was on digital for 10 seconds although it showed up on the wrong channel 11.1? :confused:

Does anyone know why we don't get Altitude HD here in the Springs? I don't think it could be blackout restrictions b/c we get Altitude HD...
I'm pretty sure that Altitude is being carried on MPEG4(HD LIL). Since C/S does not have HD LIL yet, we can't receive the broadcasts. Also on MPEG4 is Fox Sports RM in HD.

While they are showing some national Fox Sports Net programming on MPEG2(channel 95), I don't expect to see Altitude down here until next season. :mad:
....jc

A sincere expression of thanks to all who worked together to get the Guide Data on 5-1..... a special thanks to TechPrep, TallGuy, & TotallyPreWired.

I am considering upgrading to the D* HR20-700. I have read some of the problems with the FF/RW, the BSOD, and other issues. Anyone with recommendation on what to do about upgrading to the HR20, would be appreciated.

Has anyone in the COS area gotten the box, the KAKU antenna, etc. for the $20. installation fee, or did you have to pay the $99. also....?

I am considering upgrading to the D* HR20-700. I have read some of the problems with the FF/RW, the BSOD, and other issues. Anyone with recommendation on what to do about upgrading to the HR20, would be appreciated.

Has anyone in the COS area gotten the box, the KAKU antenna, etc. for the $20. installation fee, or did you have to pay the $99. also....?

I paid $220 for 2 of them ($99 each and the $20 handling-installation). Scheduled for next week but sounds like it could get bumped out since they are out of stock right now. They gave me a $100 instant credit on my bill and giving me the HD package free for 12 months, so basically a wash. I can't wait because I'm tired of all the OTA issues the COS locals seem to have. Luckily 80106 could be in El Paso, Elbert, or Douglas county. I guess I'm in Elbert county. :)

Has anyone in the COS area gotten the box, the KAKU antenna, etc. for the $20. installation fee, or did you have to pay the $99. also....?

I guess I'm in Elbert county. :)
Yea, you'll need to do some 'address magic' to get one installed in the C/S DMA. If you pull it off, you'll be getting the Denver locals. So, you'll still need OTA for C/S locals. Or more 'magic'.

My neighbor just had D* MPEG2 HD installed today for free. I warned her about the future MPEG4, and the lack of local channels. She was ok with that. 'Gota have HD!'. I also told her that her chances of OTA were slim and none.
....jc

A couple of weeks ago while talking to a D* 2nd level CSR about the 5-1 guide problem, I asked about upgrading to a Tivo box from them. You would have thought I said the “F” word :eek: . He quickly stated that they do not support Tivo. I knew that, I was using the term as a generic one for DVR. Excuse ME! He further said their new D* DVR was $199 and didn’t receive Locals OTA. After that, I said forget it :mad: . Not much of a salesman, but was he right? :confused:

A couple of weeks ago while talking to a D* 2nd level CSR about the 5-1 guide problem, I asked about upgrading to a Tivo box from them. You would have thought I said the “F” word :eek: . He quickly stated that they do not support Tivo. I knew that, I was using the term as a generic one for DVR. Excuse ME! He further said their new D* DVR was $199 and didn’t receive Locals OTA. After that, I said forget it :mad: . Not much of a salesman, but was he right? :confused:
The price varies, play CSR roulette and you should be able to get it for $99. The OTA answer is correct currently, but the HR20 does have an OTA tuner and it should be activated with a software update by December.

Regarding celfon who lives in Elbert county ;) as a former Denver resident who still works on the edge of Denver I dont really notice it when I watch the CS stations until the 10:00 news comes on. The prime time programming is the same and most of the commercials are national so watch the Denver stations.

Has anyone in the COS area gotten the box, the KAKU antenna, etc. for the $20. installation fee, or did you have to pay the $99. also....?[/QUOTE]

Sincere thanks to celfon, TotallyPreWired, Snuff101 and longrider for responding to my questions about the HR20....

OK, this thread has paused following the success of HR10 OTA guide data, so how about a new topic..... ?

Has anyone in COS considered switching to the new TIvo Series 3 (2 NTCS + 2 ATSC + 2 CableCard tuners)? For me I'd either go strictly HD OTA or HD OTA + analog basic cable. I hear configuring the cable cards is a pain and Comcast CC fees, etc. The big downer is the current S3 MAP of $800 (yikes). I may bite if the price drops near or below $500 and I could also sell off my HDVR2s and HR10-250.

Look at the math for 3 yr cost of ownership....

Tivo S3 = $800 + $300( 3 yrs of Tivo service) = $1100
(strictly OTA, no comcast)

D* HR10 - sub fees at $51/mo x 36 = $1836
(not counting the initial cost of the HR10, just D* TC @ $44.95 + DVR fee @ $5.99 - no HD pkg or mpg4 locals)

Your D* fees could be higher if you add more programming and/or the HD pkg
S3 cost could be higher if you add in Comcast basic, extended, Digital or HD pkg

I've tried to layout an Apple to Apples comparrison above.

I'm not a cable fan by any means, I tire of D* and all their games, 2 yr contracts and dropping Tivo for DVR. If I were to go this route, I'd prob start with just OTA and maybe use basic cable, so I would not have to deal with Cable Cards.

I've had similar discussiong on TCF, but wanted to hear from local COS tivo users.

thoughts?

another topic...while not ignoring the Series 3...

I was just thinking how it seemed that our local affiliates had recently been sending HD almost all the time, and were having fewer screwups where it's SD by mistake/technical difficulty. Then tonight, the World Series game was in SD the first 2 times I checked it on Fox.

As I'm writing this at 6:45, it clicked to HD. Hopefully they've got it figured out for good.

Has anyone in COS considered switching to the new TIvo Series 3 (2 NTCS + 2 ATSC + 2 CableCard tuners)?

Beeery Eeenteeresting... but spensive.

I could certainly be tempted, especially if the price were to drop a bit. I've already got Comcast, a cable card, and no DVR.

Hmmm, I'm going to have to think about this. Anybody bought one yet?
:confused:

I was just thinking how it seemed that our local affiliates had recently been sending HD almost all the time, and were having fewer screwups where it's SD by mistake/technical difficulty.
Never mind, just saw on my Tivo that KOAA had the Tonight Show in SD 4:3 on the digital channel for the entire hour last night.

Hmmm, I'm going to have to think about this. Anybody bought one yet?
:confused:

I guess that's what I'm looking for too, any early adopter impressions yet?

Another thing mentioned on TCF is that by law, if the CableCO had HD locals they have to offer them free via basic service and are available to the S3 without cablecards. This would offer us a backup for OTA HD.

I really don’t see what’s so great about TIvo. I know, what blasphemy :eek: . I use my new Panasonic DMR-EH55S DVD Recorder ($429) with 200 GB Hard Drive, HDMI, SD Card, and DV Input, for my time shifts. Of course I have to set the recordings manually but can copy to DVD. TIvo can’t do that. I can schedule the recordings to re-occur Mon-Fri, weekly, etc. The only hang is that I can’t record one show while watching another. I can fix that by getting another H20 box $5 per month. The recordings I make from the HD channels have excellent quality, just have to set the TV to “Full” for the playback at 16X9 AR. I’d judge the quality to be better than commercial DVDs.

:) IMHO, Snuffy

I really don’t see what’s so great about TIvo....The recordings I make from the HD channels have excellent quality, just have to set the TV to “Full” for the playback at 16X9 AR. I’d judge the quality to be better than commercial DVDs.
Good points Snuffy! I'm not a DVR person yet, but soon! :) I won't buy something that won't let me offload to DVD. I want to be able to record sporting events(and other things), and be able to replay them, sometimes years later.

I understand that corporate America wants to limit my rights in this area, and steal my wallet just so I can barely breathe. They can just ^!@#$*@#$(#$_#%+%+. :eek:
....jc

Well for starters your Panasonic DMR-EH55S DVD Recorder cannot record HD. As you said, Tivo has Dual tumers plus digital audio output. Tivo SP vs manual recordings, no contest, real nice when they start jerking around the programming schedule and you don't have to reprogram a bunch of manual recordings. YMMV, but the $6/mo I pay D* for Tivo DVR service is about the best $72/year I spend. YMMV.

As to recording, I have S-video and L/R audio connected to a $96 Magnovox DVDR and can record from Tivo to the DVDR as SD, so not HD archiving, but works for for SD and prob matches your Panasonic DMR-EH55S DVD Recorder for quality

As to recording, I have S-video and L/R audio connected to a $96 Magnovox DVDR and can record from Tivo to the DVDR as SD, so not HD archiving, but works for for SD and prob matches your Panasonic DMR-EH55S DVD Recorder for quality
I’ve never used a Tivo ‘cause I’m afraid they emit some colorless, odorless, addictive gas ;) .

I like to edit out commercials and then store some programming to DVD so I can play them anywhere. The DMR-EH55S produces higher quality (and edited) DVDs since it is a digital copy of the A/V stored on the HDD, far superior to an analog S video duped to another DVDR. HD Movies on D* recorded to the HDD as SD, are IMO the next best thing to HD without the file size overhead. Can anybody copy HD on TIvo to a HD DVD or BR yet? Don’t know about digital audio since my old Dolby Pro-Logic receiver has no inputs for it, but produces fine surround sound. All surround sound is artificially produced anyway, digital or analog.

Sorry for getting off the subject for this thread, :) Snuffy

The Oct. blizzard of '06 is still not anything like the Oct. blizzard of '97, but at least we now have all of the locals (minus the new CW) in digital. This is a good thing!

I use a Sammy TS360 and I noticed today that Ch 11 was off the air at about 10am, but 11-1 was broadcasting until later in the afternoon. Now both are gone, but at least all of the other digital channels are coming in 5X5. Too bad we now have repeats of Earl and The Office!

Don't know if the local cable system went off the air, but my D* stayed up all day. I just had to clear some snow and ice off of the dish once about 3p.

I noticed today that Ch 11 was off the air at about 10am, but 11-1 was broadcasting until later in the afternoon.

Ch 11 D* has been off the air all night. OTA 11-1 was back on around 7PM for me. Their news indicated that they lost power for about 3 hours.

Ch 11 D* has been off the air all night. OTA 11-1 was back on around 7PM for me. Their news indicated that they lost power for about 3 hours.
Lost power? Lost Power? Don't they have backup power? What wimps!

Colorado Springs home of the telegraph.... :confused:

They are still down on D*.
....jc

Ch 11 D* has been off the air all night. OTA 11-1 was back on around 7PM for me. Their news indicated that they lost power for about 3 hours.

WOO HOO! Win one for the digital receivers! Although Survivor was a clips show, TiVo grabbed it on the 11-1 channel, even though 11 was still off the air on D*.

--Ron

Has anyone seen any HD from CBS/KKTV the last 2 nights? Every time I've passed by it, it's been SD on shows that should be HD.

I noticed the same thing that KKTV has not broadcast HD the last 2 nights. They sure have made things much better with their decision to multicast-No 5.1 audio-never knowing if the show is going to be in HD but we will know about every miniscule weather issue. Isn't progress wonderful. Wake up KKTV and get your act together. You were the first to broadcast HD and now it's pitiful.

I noticed the same thing that KKTV has not broadcast HD the last 2 nights. They sure have made things much better with their decision to multicast-No 5.1 audio-never knowing if the show is going to be in HD but we will know about every miniscule weather issue. Isn't progress wonderful. Wake up KKTV and get your act together. You were the first to broadcast HD and now it's pitiful.
KKTV adding 2 useless sub-channels was a dumb idea from the start. 11-2 runs 2 (prime time?) programs, “Desire” and “Fashion House”. My wife won’t even watch that crap. I could live with the 11-3 weather channel if they would include the warnings and radar so it would not have to be on 11-1 screwing up HD all the time. When I checked, it was a black screen during the recent blizzard :cool: .

I heard that the TV stations are also allowed to transmit various data as sub-channels such as radio, stock tickers, etc. and we won’t even know it since they will not be DV format. :eek: More degradation is coming, I suspect.

I've been thinking that it is probably time for 1) a call to KKTV to get their thoughts on multicasting, providing only 11Mbps on the main channel, noticeably worse PQ, loss of DD5.1, etc. - which would probably lead to 2) an online petition that we could all sign (and get our HD friends who are non-AVS'ers to sign) to send to KKTV encouraging them to rethink their strategy and provide high quality A/V on their main channel and low bitrate on their subchannels. Even 14-15Mbps out of the 19.3 available would be more enjoyable for all of us.

Yeah, they may or may not listen, but if I was the president or GM of a TV station and got a intelligently worded petition signed by 100 high-end viewers, I'd at least think about what they were saying. Especially if not one viewer had said squat about Fashion House or the digital weather channel! We could promise to try to pay attention to their advertisers if they do this for us. They were the first and the leader in CoS, and now they're last place in PQ.

This time of year I can't really call during the workdays, but maybe someone else here could, just to get their thoughts, and post their response here.. Then if needed we could try the online petition - I think there are many websites that will handle that process nicely for us.

What do you say?

Then again, I just saw this - we should give KKTV a few days to recover: http://springstvtalk.blogspot.com/2006/10/sno-fun-at-kktv.html

Plus, they are HD again now, so at least it was fixable.

What do you say?
It's a waste of time! :(

Here's why:
They really don't care what people think...
Analog pays the bills, digital is a PITA...
They have their business plan, and whining about quality ain't gona change it...
I watch both C/S & Denver, and Denver has the same attitude...
If you want quality you'll need to pay for it via Cable or Satellite. They can provide them a better product...
Only 3% of HD viewers receive their signal OTA...
And again, They really don't care what people think...


Finally, if ya wonder why things are this way, just look at the $$$ spent by broadcasters to have the laws crafted for them. Who represented us(you know the little guys that pay all of the taxes)? :rolleyes:

Nuff, said!
....jc

Analog is gone in 2 years...digital is mainly what consumers are investing in now. And the stations have each spent a lot of money to go digital recently, so why? Not for all the advertisers that are dying to place spots on Fashion House on 11-2.

Plus I think the lower bit rate is probably passed on to cable the same as OTA - do we have evidence that they are passing a full bit rate feed directly to Adelphicast?

We've got to be years away from this premium quality that you think is coming soon from networks to cable/satellite - haven't heard that discussed as imminent anywhere - do you have a link?

Analog is gone in 2 years...digital is mainly what consumers are investing in now. And the stations have each spent a lot of money to go digital recently, so why? Not for all the advertisers that are dying to place spots on Fashion House on 11-2.
I’m not so sure that analog is going away in 2 years. There are still a ton of analog-only TVs out there and if the “Party of the People” gains control of Congress, you can bet that they will respond to the masses. Many people don’t know analog is supposed to go away or even what DTV is, yet. The FCC, only recently mandated (with loop holes) that all new sets have an ATSC tuner :( . My 2 year old Sony 50” doesn’t have one, nor does my brand new Panny DVDR. Larry and Matilda Lunchbucket will scream to high heaven when they discover their precious 4 year old 25” TV has become a relic or they have to spend money for a digital receiver. We’ll see.

Typically cable companies get their feed from the stations by direct connection or microwave and satellite companies get theirs OTA. Witness, during bad thunderstorms, D*’s local channels break up when lightning strikes, other channels do not.

Analog is gone in 2 years...digital is mainly what consumers are investing in now. And the stations have each spent a lot of money to go digital recently, so why? Not for all the advertisers that are dying to place spots on Fashion House on 11-2.
Uh, because they had to?

Plus I think the lower bit rate is probably passed on to cable the same as OTA - do we have evidence that they are passing a full bit rate feed directly to Adelphicast?
We'll need to research it, but they certainly can do it.

We've got to be years away from this premium quality that you think is coming soon from networks to cable/satellite - haven't heard that discussed as imminent anywhere - do you have a link?
The info is out there if you try to look. How about this:
CBS distributes network signals MPEG-encoded and encrypted at 45 Mbps, but we have to fit that into the FCC allocated 19 Mbps 8-VSB bitstream.
The Link. (http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/77/1363.html?1085510860)

And, I've asked foxeng for his input on this subject:
All FOX stations that receive the HD feed receive it at the same bit rate and that same bit rate is broadcast. Unlike the other networks FOX pre-compresses for OTA for the stations....If a scene has little movement, the bit rate will be small in the 7 or 8 mb area. If there is a lot of movement like in NASCAR or football, the bit rate can go to a max of 15.5 mb.
So, it looks like Fox is the exception.
....jc

I’m not so sure that analog is going away in 2 years. There are still a ton of analog-only TVs out there and if the “Party of the People” gains control of Congress, you can bet that they will respond to the masses.
Please....The decision has been made. The only question is what will happen in places like Denver if they should miss the deadline.
Many people don’t know analog is supposed to go away or even what DTV is, yet. The FCC, only recently mandated (with loop holes) that all new sets have an ATSC tuner :( .
Actually, in 124 days(03/01/07), all TV's, no loopholes in this date.

My 2 year old Sony 50” doesn’t have one, nor does my brand new Panny DVDR. Larry and Matilda Lunchbucket will scream to high heaven when they discover their precious 4 year old 25” TV has become a relic or they have to spend money for a digital receiver. We’ll see.
Congress established a fund to help those 'Lunch Bucket' people get receivers. They've delayed this conversion long enough, I don't think that they'll back off now. And, if you think Congress would do anything for the people, you've been living on another planet.

Typically cable companies get their feed from the stations by direct connection or microwave and satellite companies get theirs OTA. Witness, during bad thunderstorms, D*’s local channels break up when lightning strikes, other channels do not.
Even within D* it varies on a city by city basis. Some are OTA, some are fiber. I expect the OTA to fade and be replaced by fiber.
....jc

Does anyone know which, if any, local COS channel supplies the TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) guide data? I am trying to setup my Panny DVDR to receive the guide and the manual is of little help. The DVDR is supposed to support D* but I think I may have to obtain the guide OTA. As I understand it, the data is transmitted in the VBI of certain Host Channels, I just don't know which channel it is for COS. Any info would be much appreciated.

I thought the Broncos HD picture quality on KKTV looked better today, and then I checked and 11-2 and 11-3 are off - fully black screen! I'd like to check the bit rates on each of the 3 channels, but my PC tuner for that isn't hooked up at the moment. But looks like a good decision to allocate bandwidth for the hometown game by KKTV!

I need some comparative information on D* HD-TiVo owners who are currently recording and watching the Broncos game... If you're at a point other than live TV, can you forward the game with the 1 fast forward arrow which is normally about 3x speed? When I do that, it stays at normal speed, but mutes the sound, even while showing the arrow on the bottom of the screen. I've noticed it for like 3 CBS Broncos games now, and it is really strange. The other levels of fast forward work normally for me (2 arrows, 3 arrows, 30 second skip). I'm pretty sure that neither the station or DirecTV or TiVo can block you from using the fast foward button, so why isn't it working? There are a lot of times when you'd really like to forward a game at that 3x (1st arrow) speed. And it's happened when I had the 3.1.5 software, and now with the 6.3 software. I noticed it on one CBS recorded drama too, but otherwise my TiVo has been working completely normally.

Any other DirecTV HD-TiVo owners out there seeing this?

Any other DirecTV HD-TiVo owners out there seeing this?

Same result here, but it must be an OTA issue with 11-1 KKTV, imagine that. I was wondering what you were talking about but realized I hadn't had the issue because I usually watch 81 CBSW (doesn't have the problem) since locals have been so bad.

I thought the Broncos HD picture quality on KKTV looked better today, and then I checked and 11-2 and 11-3 are off - fully black screen! I'd like to check the bit rates on each of the 3 channels, but my PC tuner for that isn't hooked up at the moment. But looks like a good decision to allocate bandwidth for the hometown game by KKTV!
I agree the PQ was excellent, not to mention a good game regadless of the outcome. I also noticed the black screen for 11-2 and 11-3. 11-3 has been in the black for most of the week. Maybe KKTV has been reading this thread. It is probably too much to hope for, that they will abandon the 2 sub-channels. I don't know if ratings would apply to MYKKTV but if the do, they are sure to find out it is a dud. I guess we can dream.

Yeah, I noticed they shut 11-3 down right around when people started complaining here. That can't just be a coincidence...

Hate to say it, but right now the black screen on 11-2 is using up 1.3-1.9 Mbps and the black screen on 11-3 takes another 1.3-1.9 Mbps.

I wonder if all the bits are zeroes?

11-1 is left with 11.7-15 Mbps for Without a Trace, mostly in the 13's.