Yes, you definently are, and they are the same. But like I said "I usually get 250-300k download speeds"

I don't go around claiming I get 2Mbps download speeds though. I say my actual download speed that windows says, which is around 250-300K. I knew something was up when you said your friend gets 2Mbps. I thought you meant he could download a 10MB file in 5 seconds which would be VERY odd.


On another note: Is anyone on this board eligable for DSL from Qwest? I'm too far and don't have good enough phone line. I'd like to know which areas are, and since they'll only tell you based on your account info, you can't try other addresses.

Nice, what kinda connection? How about upload speeds?

I'm not sure what kind of connection - big corporation type :)

Comm: 9.2 mbits/sec
Storage: 1.1 mbytes/sec
1 MB dl: 0.9 sec.

Not sure how to test upload. But who really cares how fast thier work connection is anyway, right?
Once upon a time I checked on DSL around here, it just wasn't as good of a deal.

Nice, it's a very fast connection!
I bet upload is the same speed.

For more accurate results I bet you'd need a bigger file though. Mind trying dslreports.com and go to tools and then the speed tester?

DL: 3114 kbps
UL: 1170 kbps

It said to stop using my connection, but I didn't. Internet radio was playing Metallica's crappy new song. Man, that just sucks.

Originally posted by Vaggeto
I don't go around claiming I get 2Mbps download speeds though. I say my actual download speed that windows says, which is around 250-300K. I knew something was up when you said your friend gets 2Mbps.

Why not? They're one and the same. Download speeds are typically measured in bits per second. Think of a 56k modem. That's 5.6 kbytes/sec (with overhead).

bps ALWAYS means bits per second, NOT bytes per second. Big difference.

56k and cable is kinda like a pentium and pentium 4.

WIth old processors you say they're Mhz. With new ones you say Ghz, not Mhz. I do the same with 56k and cable.

Originally posted by Jeremy Tebo
DL: 3114 kbps
UL: 1170 kbps

Sweet! Where is that at??

We have a T1 (AKA DS1) at work - 1.544Mbps up and down. It's adequate, but it would be nice to have a T3 (DS3) someday - 44.730 Mbps!!!
:D

Thats at HP. But back to local HDTV, how is KKTV lately? Are you guys using an OTA reciever to pick it up? Any new word on the other stations? I'm still very tempted to get a cheap Samsung to check it out. I can get a refurb on ebay for $220, new for $245. What do you think? I would need an antenna too, right? Anything else I would need?

Has anyone seen any actual HD broadcasts on KKTV this week or last week? I turned on the Young and the Restless today, just to see if they're showing HD, and it was an upconvert.

Those newbies in engineering need to get their stuff together and remember to record the network HD feed. I guess we can't complain too much, yet, as the station still hasn't made an official announcement.

FYI, they are showing the words "KKTV-DT" at the very bottom on their station promo/logo shots.

The Monday prime time lineup seemed to be in HD. During one of the shows (Still Standing?) there was some popping in the audio so they switched to the SD feed. Within 5 mins the HD feed was back with clean audio. Whoever was working that night seemed to be right on top of things.

--Armando

Does anyone know of a Walmart store in the Colorado Springs/Denver area that has the Samsung T151 HDTV reciever.

--Bengt

bnelson, I do not because I have never shopped for an HD receiver at Walmart.

Once again, The Young and the Restless was not in HD today. I'll be too busy tonight to watch, but could someone please post if they see CSI or other shows on KKTV in HD this evening? If KKTV isn't broadcasting a HD show properly, let the station know! 634-2844 ext. 243 (only use the extension if it is after-hours) and ask for engineering!!! I hate being the only one who complains, they need to hear a new voice to make things happen.

Ok, here's the most up to date info I have on our local stations (except KKTV) and their DT status:

****
KRDO (ABC)
Status: Plans on hold
Remarks:
The Cheyenne Propagation Company (CPC), the same folks giving KKTV legal headaches, is also asking KRDO for extra $$$ if they set up a digital antenna on their property. Apparently, CPC wants to charge for every new digital signal sent out by a station on its property.
Currently, KRDO could actually get away with setting up a digital antenna as their current contract with CPC, which allows new antennas to be built, is still good for a few more years. However, they are worried about being hit up later with insane cost increases by CPC during their contract renewal.
From what I gather, KRDO is waiting to see what comes of CPC's lawsuits against KKTV before they take any further action. If the lawsuits against KKTV get dismissed, which I hear they will be, then perhaps KRDO can feel ready to move forward without any legal hassles.
Expected Live Date: Unknown

****
KXRM (FOX) / KXTU (UPN)
Status: Nearly ready for broadcast
Remarks:
According to Roger at KXRM engineering, nearly all of their equipment is in place to begin broadcasting. Their antenna setup should have been completed by the end of today. He said that a transmitter technician was coming in very soon and that we might actually see test signals by next week!
He said they also have their antenna on CPC's property, however, they have a "newer" contract with CPC than KRDO or KKTV does and that they should not have any legal problems doing what they're doing.
While the chief of engineering, Mike Dunlap, was unavailable for comment, Roger hinted that he'd heard that KXRM will upconvert the 480p feed coming from the network to 1080i for local broadcast.
Unfortunately, Roger did not know for sure if KXTU would be going digital right away as well, but I'll try to gather that information as soon as I can talk to Mr. Dunlap.
Roger said keep on eye on their website (www.kxrm.com) for an official announcement of their DT status. He said that KXRM will heavily promote it when they're ready to go.
Expected Live Date: By the end of next month

****
KOAA (NBC)
Status: Plans on hold
Remarks:
I spoke to Quentin at KOAA engineering, and he said that they're still awaiting a construction permit from the FCC. He said that earlier this year, the FCC actually gave them a permit, then revoked it a week later when it was discovered that KOAA's digital signal would interfere with another DT station in Denver (folks in the Denver thread probably know more about what I'm talking about). However, KOAA does have some equipment in place already, and their microwave link to the transmitter is digital-ready.
Expected Live Date: 6 months to 1 year out

****
KTSC (PBS)
Status: Awaiting equipment
Remarks:
Spoke to the very friendly Ian Hartley at KTSC engineering, and he said that KTSC is still waiting for their equipment to show up. He estimated that their equipment should all arrive by September, and that he'll get it up and going ASAP after that. He did stress, though, that there will be many bugs to work out and that we may not see true HD right away, but we should at least have a digital signal from them.
Expected Live Date: 01 Oct 03


There you go! Sorry for the delay in getting this info. I figured after all that wasted space about DSL and cable, I'd get us back on track with some worthwhile info.

Thanks a lot for finding all of that out!

drvais,

I wouldn't have expected to find anything related to HDTV at Walmart, but they have it. Here is the proof,

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=115061&path=0%3A3944%3A3987%3A3996%3A115061

I can always get it on the WEB, but if there is a Walmart store that has it the Colorado Springs/Denver area then why not...... It is only $298.

-- Bengt

Interesting link! I've seen a few low-end HDTVs at the Walmart on Powers, but it's an embarrassment. They're running a terrible feed via composite cables to the sets. Of course, J6P gets a horrendous impression of HD this way.

What are you guys using to pick up the OTA signal? (Model, etc) Do you have a satellite reciever with OTA capabilities? If so, is there any difference in quality from satellite vs. OTA?

Yes, there is a difference, but it all depends on how the broadcaster distributes their signal. You can send a 1080i signal at 10 Mbps, or you can send it at 18+ Mbps, and there should be a noticeable difference in quality between the two. Presently, I've heard that DirecTV is playing around with HDNet and HBO-HD and lowering their bit rates, so that affects their quality. I have not been able to test the bit rate coming from KKTV-DT.

I use a Radio Shack bowtie antenna (since discontinued at RS) coupled with a Zenith HD SAT 520. My Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV also has a built-in ATSC tuner that I occasionally use to grab the signal.

Btw, The Young and the Restless is finally in HD today. The first 30 seconds were in SD, then they fixed it. Thank you KKTV! FYI, I'm not a Young and the Restless fan, I'm just happy to see true HD.

How's the bowtie antenna work for you?

I was at a RS looking for one, but didn't see any, and I didn't think "bowtie antenna" would be the right thing to ask an employee when asking them to search local strores for one.

The bowtie antenna works great for me (reference some of my earlier posts).

As you can see in my most previous post, the the RS bowtie antenna has unfortunately been discontinued. However, I believe you can still find it on eBay.

Btw, I noticed TY&TR was not in HD yesterday, so KKTV is apparently still stuck in HDTV elementary school.

As long as they do the prime time stuff in HD I'm happy, but they should be able to have it all HD by now.

I was asking for a part # because I read that some people found a few that weren't sold yet after them being discontinued in their RS for $2/each.

O-well, I ended up getting a Channel Master 3010 Stealthtenna and it works VERY well. Non-amplified and I get 100 signal. With the Terk 43 I got 30s, and about a 4 with it next to my TV. With the stealthtenna I got 100's next to my TV and up on the roof.

I also tried this ChannelMaster 3020: http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=56239-000000693-3020 next tot he TV and I only got around 30 signals. If I touched it the signal went up to 100. Because of its size and that fact that it didn't work that well I brought it back. Analog locals were also bad.

But I'm happy with the 3010 stealthtenna, it even picks up every analog local almost perfectly. It can be found here: http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=154077-000000693-3010)

Isn't the CBS feed of CSI in HD supposed to be one of the best looking HD programs around?

Based on what I've seen I haven't really been impressed by it. It seems like even the HBOHD movies on D* look better. HDNet really looks better. Is there something they're doing wrong, or did I misread about that being one of the best looking shows?

I wouldn't compare most of the shows on HDNet with anything on the CBS feed, since most of HDNet's programming is shot natively in HD, whereas CBS shoots their shows in film and converts them to HD.

The Charlie Lawrence show looked good tonight in HD. Also, "Follow the Stars Home," which is being shown in HD right now, looks several times better than that horrid SW:AOTC presentation on HBO-HD via DirecTV last night.

Thank God KKTV is at least remembering to record the HD feeds for prime-time.

That stealthtenna looks like quite a contraption. Is that what I'm going to need to get HD OTA? Maybe someone else makes a bowtie that would work...

Originally posted by Jeremy Tebo
That stealthtenna looks like quite a contraption. Is that what I'm going to need to get HD OTA? Maybe someone else makes a bowtie that would work...


I actually noticed the Charlie Lawrence show did look really good.

Jeremy, I just saw that a never-opened Radio Shack bowtie antenna sold for $10 on eBay about a week ago, that's a lot cheaper that what I paid for it in the store. I really suggest just getting one off eBay.

Cool, I'll keep that in mind. I'm still considering switching to satellite though, I just can't make up my mind. I still don't know if I'd keep my cable modem, or maybe try DSL.

Does anyone know if you need to have a home phone line to get DSL? I would imagine you do, but I just use my cell phone as my home phone right now.

I don't think its worth it to buy an OTA tuner for one channel now. I guess since DirecTV has more HD channels coming July, I might switch then, and get a box that does sat and OTA. I really want to get at least something in HD, but CBS is probably the worst network IMO. $500-$700 is a lot to drop on a satellite box too. Maybe they'll have a nice special eventually.

From what I've heard, DirecTV is a better choice coming July 1 if you want HD.

It is, as long as they don't compress it too much.

Speaking of only one channel in our area, has anyone been able to pick up any test signals from KXRM (FOX)?

Vaggeto, I've heard of that too. Do you know if there is a big difference in quality between the sat providers in HD? I guess that would be a reason to go with Dish instead.

Originally posted by drvais
Speaking of only one channel in our area, has anyone been able to pick up any test signals from KXRM (FOX)?

I've been trying occasionally on all our locals since I got my stealtenna up, but I don't get any signal on any of them.

Originally posted by Jeremy Tebo
Vaggeto, I've heard of that too. Do you know if there is a big difference in quality between the sat providers in HD? I guess that would be a reason to go with Dish instead.

Right now Dish is a bit better quality wise, but I only think it's because D* is testing their signals trying to get better solutions.

Fox will not be broadcasting an HD signal. If they EVER start broadcasting a DTV signal, the best resolution will be 480i.

Originally posted by Frank Zimkas
Fox will not be broadcasting an HD signal. If they EVER start broadcasting a DTV signal, the best resolution will be 480i.

Frank, where did you get your information from?

Here is the latest from Fox: (thanks to drvais)

****
KXRM (FOX) / KXTU (UPN)
Status: Nearly ready for broadcast
Remarks:
According to Roger at KXRM engineering, nearly all of their equipment is in place to begin broadcasting. Their antenna setup should have been completed by the end of today. He said that a transmitter technician was coming in very soon and that we might actually see test signals by next week!
He said they also have their antenna on CPC's property, however, they have a "newer" contract with CPC than KRDO or KKTV does and that they should not have any legal problems doing what they're doing.
While the chief of engineering, Mike Dunlap, was unavailable for comment, Roger hinted that he'd heard that KXRM will upconvert the 480p feed coming from the network to 1080i for local broadcast.
Unfortunately, Roger did not know for sure if KXTU would be going digital right away as well, but I'll try to gather that information as soon as I can talk to Mr. Dunlap.
Roger said keep on eye on their website (www.kxrm.com) for an official announcement of their DT status. He said that KXRM will heavily promote it when they're ready to go.
Expected Live Date: By the end of next month

Sorry, should have said 480p. Take a look at page 65 of the June, 2003 issue of Sound and Vision magazine. The article quotes a Fox spokesman as saying HDTV "is nothing more than a marketing term."Fox has been saying for a long time that they would be broadcasting in "High Resolution," which is a far cry from a 1080i. I can't imagine a small market Fox station would be able to afford to make the jump to 1080i on their own, since the network itself is only going to be feeding them a 480p signal. I hope that they do infact broadcast a 1080i signal, but at this point I am skeptical.

I thought you meant they would basically be doing nothing but their SDTV locally when you said 480i.

They might be sending out a 1080i signal, but it will only be an upconvert from 480p. Many Fox stations currently broadcast an upconverted 1080i signal.

1080i is great and all, but Joe Kane's articles in Widescreen Review are making me think they should upconvert to 720p instead. Then again, my display won't natively display 720p. :(

Same here. So I figure Fox upconverting to 1080i, is better then my E86 upconverting to 1080i.

Happy happy days!

I havn't been paying attention to this thread in a while. Yesterday when I read that KTTV might be finally broadcasting regularly, I went out and bought the Terk TV55 antenna that Frank had recommended.

Installed it in my basement utility room of all places (right next to my home theater) and it actually worked!! The fact I'm about 1/2 mile from Norad probably doesn't hurt. I was worried that the half-buried basement might block the signal and that all of the wiring in the utility room would interfere, and that the close proximity of the ground would cause all sorts of secondary reflections.

But, even with all of that my receiver is able to lock onto channel 11-1. I'm using a Panny HDS20 receiver. I know how to get a signal strength for the D* satellite...anyone know if there is a way to get a signal strength for the OTA signals? Might help me optimize the antenna placement for the future.

For now, I'm a happy camper...one more HDTV signal is always a good thing! Don't watch much CBS (yet) but am now looking foward to the upcoming NFL season!

Thanks to everyone in this forum for their comments and advice!

On the CBS football note... Are Broncos going to mainly be on KKTV this year like last year? (Except for a few of those Fox games)

Will any of them be in HD? I notice the HD cameras tend to be at Invesco field a lot now because of all the HDNet soccer games there.

OK, now I see what people were talking about with the "stretched 4:3" stuff. This is *really* annoying. With my Panny HDS20 and my PLV-60 projector, there seems to be no way to remotely "squeeze" the picture. I have to walk over and manually press the Output format button on the HDS20 and select 420i or 420p instead of Native.

What's the status on the complaints about this. Is it still worth calling the engineer or emailing somebody? There is absolutely no reason for them to be doing this. They need to be taught how to broadcast HDTV properly before they get a bigger audience.

On the Football question, Yes, CBS handles the part of the NFL that the Broncos are part of. Was called the AFC, but I don't know all of the new terms since the reorg. Games might be carried by Fox if the Broncos are playing an "NFC" team that week. But CBS should get most of them. However, I don't know if CBS is broadcasting all of their games in HD, or just the national market games. Sometimes we get the local market Bronco game but that isn't what the majority of the country is watching. I'm hoping that with the recent commitement of the NFL to HD that more and more games will be in HD.

Of course, I also sign up for NFL Sunday Ticket on D* so that I can watch my 49ers team :) From what I understand, there will be more HD broadcasts of NFL for Sunday Ticket subscribers this year, but we'll have to wait to see on the details. Between that and the Sunday night games on ESPN-HD, I'm all set for a fun season. Now if we can just get KRDO to get up and running in time for the MNF games!

Yes, please call them and complain.

I guess I'm really used to watching 4:3 content in 16:9 format. I maybe watch one half hour a week of content in 4:3 mode. I'd rather them stretch all their content then have bars, which would make me not watch it because of the burn-in.

This is really wierd. 5 min ago, just after my post, the Oprah show switched into normal non-stretched HD. They must still be playing with the feed.

I tend to forget about burn-in issues because I have an LCD projector rather than a CRT. You can only get burn-in on a direct-view or other CRT device these days. Don't know my the PLV-60 can't just squeeze the picture itself. I've always known that having the output format selection on the front panel was a bad design of the HDS20, but since other boxes even have this switch in the rear panel of the receiver, I guess I'm still luckier than most.

I can see that aspect ratio is going to be a pain with HD in general. But I'm sorry to disagree with you Vaggeto that I want my aspect to be correct regardless of whether it creates bars. I just don't like watching stuff that is short and stretched like that.

MikeP,
Glad that your happy with the Terk antenna. How's your reception on the "old" stations?

Wow, that Terk antenna worked? I'm kinda suprised based on what I've read about ANY terk antenna, and my experience with a Terk 42, which got less of a signal on my roof then the RG6 cable without it! The signal got Lower as I plugged the antenna in it.

The Terk TV55 is *very* different from other Terk antennas. It's a special design for indoor/outdoor use and doesn't look like a "normal" antenna. You certainly can't compare the TV55 with the TV42 since they are totally different designs. The TV55 also has a builtin preamp, but I'm not even powering that since I don't have handy power (yes, seems silly for the utility room). I'll mess with that if needed in the future.

Frank, the reception of the analog stations is fairly poor as you might expect. Lots of ghosting. Obviously an outdoor location would be better, but to have line-of-site to Cheyenne Mtn, the antenna would have to be in the front part of my house, and I don't want it visible if I can help it. Since it seems to work fine for now with KTTV I'll just have to wait for more digital stations to test.

But it's a great showcase for why digital is much better than analog. With digital, you either get nothing, or a perfect picture. None of this fuzzy, ghosting junk that you get with analog.

OK, I'm gonna look it up again. I might be confusing it with the $100 terk 50 which is terrible from what I've read.

OK, I checked and I was thinking of the right antenna. Many people have terrible reception with this antenna.

What signal strength are you getting with KKTV?

I think it's very difficult to get burn-in on my direct view.

I've never seen burn in on a direct view, and I've left DVD on menu screens for over 24 hours sometimes etc(and games on pause for a long period of time too)... I think that's very rare. I don't worry about burn-in on direct view.

I have no idea what the signal strength is. As I mentioned before, I know how to see the signal strength of the D* dish, but I have no idea how to measure the signal strength with the OTA on the Panny HDS20.

Also, it looks like the TV55 is a newer version of the TV50, so maybe they have improved it since then. It was $99 from SoundTrack though.

I just got home and turned on the HT. Now, I'm still new to this CBS HD schedule, but isn't CSI supposed to be in HD? I'm getting the stretched 4:3 picture.

OK, this is really creepy. CSI magically fixed itself. It's in HD now. Someone at KTTV must be watching this forum thread.

I've caught them doing some shady things lately like you (MikeP) just described.

I just spoke with Mike Dunlap at KXRM, and he said that we should see a test signal being broadcast from noon to midnight starting next week. He said that once they work the bugs out, they will probably maintain the 1200-0000 schedule for some time (which is really not that big of a deal, since the network feed doesn't provide any so-called "high resolution" broadcasts until prime-time). He also said that they will be broadcasting in low power, but that anyone in the Springs area should be able to receive them without any problem.

For shites and giggles, I fired off an email to Mike Dunlap with the New York Times article regarding Fox's 720p rollout next year to see how he'll respond. After all, seems like they'll have a headache on their hands if they start broadcasting 1080i now, when a year from now they'll have to switch to 720p.

Them upconverting to 720p is fine by me. Better then 480p to 1080i :-)

Vaggeto, when the network feed goes to 720p next year, they won't have to upconvert. :)

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/25/business/media/25TUBE.html?ex=1057118400&en=2a3f8fe190b850b2&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

I see.
I meant if they only had the current equipment that is ready to do1080i.

"Proponents say this format, which sends a complete picture 60 times a second, does a better job of reproducing the fast movements of sports. Both NBC and CBS transmit their HDTV programs using the interlaced 1080i format, which alternates sending odd and even lines, and thus sends a complete picture 30 times a second."

More like sends a complete picture 30 times a second, and 1080i sends half a complete, higher resolution picture 60 times a second.

Do any of you get program information (like the name and description of the show) on KKTV-DT? The guide screen for my Samsung receiver just says "Regular Programming" and I want to make sure that reason for the lack of info is on KKTV's end. If so, hopefully KKTV will add that to the digital signal later.

Yeah, KKTV hasn't figured out how to include proper PSIP data in their transmission.

Call them and let them know you'd like to see it.

No guide data is a pain. I noticed channel 51 local was somehow on my channel list and it has guide data. I had never seen the channel before, but it was analog local.

I tested Sunday and today for Fox digital, and got nothing. Anyone else try yet?

No Fox -- but I just activated the new DirecTV package of HD channels. $10.99 a month gets HDNet (again but for 24 hours a day this time), HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, and ESPN-HD. Does not include HBO-HD or Showtime-HD. This morning early they're not showing anything too exciting - will have to check back tonight. SportsCenter does not appear to be stretched too much, maybe a little. Of course the sources for their clips have to be 4:3.

We're gradually getting choices in HD in Colorado Springs.

I just tested fox at 3:30 and it was in on 21-1! My signal strength is 93-100 for KKTV, and a constant 100 for channel local 22 which is Fox. They are upconverting Judge Mathis without stretching it currently.

and BTW: There is no signal for UPN.

Interesting. My antenna, which is not in an optimum location in my lower level, picks up KKTV at only 69% but no Fox signal at all as of 3:55 this afternoon. Guess I'm going to have to work on moving the antenna up to the space over the garage on one of these 100 degree days!

Vaggeto, what part of town are you in?

South Carefree and Murray, or Maizeland and Murray.

Up the hill on the other side of Academy from Palmer Park.

The only thing in the view of the antenna from my roof is a good sized tree about 3 houses down from me.

I'll go recheck my signal.

You might want to try moving the antenna by hand. When using old bunny ears, I would get 0 or 100 signal strength from my living room depending on the position of it.

I'm now getting a 65-72 on both stations.

I have no idea why my signal occasionally drops like this on KKTV.

I rescanned with my integra tuner. It easily picks up all analog channels and KKTV-DT. Anybody else getting getting Fox digital?

Roy

The Hurricane looks to be is 16:9. It fills the whole screen, and doesn't look stretched compared to the regular Fox, but the camera changes so much it is hard to have a good comparison yet. I didn't see an "available in Fox Enhanced Definition" logo or anything.

I'm having trouble seeing if it's wider. It's pretty good quality, about DVD.

OK, I think I figured it out... there is definently top and bottom information missing, and it doesn't appear to be any wider the the 4x3 version.

So they cropped the 4x3 version into widescreen, so you lose top and bottom, but get a full widescreen picture.

The fox logo is towards the middle compared to the analog station, and they put thier own FOX21 logo on it for a few seconds occasionally.

Well, I am getting it now. I had to program that channel in specifically. It does look quite good, very clean and clear but not as sharp as CSI. It is nice to be able to compare two digital stations in Colorado Springs.

Roy

Yah, but remember... CSI is true HD. This is 480i/480p. I'm not sure what format they're sending in, but for me it's upconvrted to 1080i.

I would say it's the quality of a DVD that was zoomed as this movie is. If it was 1.85, or 2.35, it would be much clearer.

One thing I'll mention... The upconverted regular programming didn't have much of an improvement over the analog like KKTV does. The colors didn't improve etc like they do for me when comparing KKTV analog vs. digital.
They have been Very good at not taking it back to SD during the movie though. Commericals are all 4x3 non-stretched, and the movie is always 16x9.

EDIT:

Anyone else seeing the sync problem with audio? It's off by a little bit, just enough to bother me.

They are on again today. They are not stretching 4x3 material. I also like that they are being honest in lableing their channel KXRM-SD!. On the downside, I am experiencing lip sync being off.

Does anyone know where there is a list of which Fox shows are in widescreen 480p?

Roy

The audio was off a bit Thursday too.

I figure they didn't come back on until today because Friday was July 4th, and then the weekend with possibly different workers.

I'm getting KXRM tonight here near Norad (channel 22). But I'm not getting anything from KTTV...just a black screen. I don't have any way to measure signal strength, so I can't tell if they are off the air, or if I'm just not receiving. Probably time to move my TV55 antenna outside instead of it's below-par basement location.

I just got my Sat-C kit and need to hook that up to get the D* HD package. Wow, it's like Christmas with all of these new channels!

I've been watching KKTV-DT for the past hour or so, so it is up.

What receiver do you have? It won't let you see digital signal strength?

I'm using the Panasonic HDS20. It has a signal strength for the DirectTV antenna, but nothing I can find for the OTA antenna.

Oh. Weird.. does it give you an option to select the source of the signal?

My E86 gives a seperate option for all 3 satellites and Digital OTA.

Well, I moved my antenna into the attic above the garage, but still no luck receiving KXRM digital 21-1. I have 77% on KKTV-DT, so my connection, placement and antenna are OK. It could be due to the stucco getting in the way. ?

Is anyone on the north end, say north of Woodmen, receiving 21-1?

Can someone confirm for me that they are broadcasting 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with no blackouts?

I also hope that maybe they're not yet at full power. Otherwise I might have to bite the bullet and go buy a TERK-55 or one of the big ugly antennas... Guess I won't be seeing Tuesday's All-Star game in widescreen.

I'm not that far north (Powers & Stetson Hills Blvd), but I get a signal for KXRM in the mid 80's using a Terk TV-55 in my attic.

So does Fox digital have the All-Star game on in 16x9 480p right now?

Yes, they do. Looks a lot better then the cable/OTA analog version, especially since it's wide-screen. The further the camera is from what it's looking at, the worse it looks, but it's still pretty good. Makes you appreciate HD that much more.

I'm currently at a 93 signal for kktv, and 100 for Fox.

I'm just about ready to finally pull the trigger on an HDTV reciever. Right now I'm leaning toward buying a Samsung TS160 w/ 3lnb dish for $559 + $30 shipping from www.mini-dishes.com. What do you guys think, it looks like a pretty good buy to me. Adelphia says they're going to have HDTV cable by the end of the year, but I have a hard time beleiving them.

I'm also not sure about them having HD.

I know a couple people who got their system from mini-dishes.com and they had good experiences. Looks like a pretty good deal.

I guess it's time to announce that I'll be looking to sell my Zenith HD SAT520 in November, as I'll be moving to Belgium.

It kind of stinks that just as I'm getting used to 9 digital channels (to include KKTV and KXRM), I'm going to a place that hasn't even dreamed of HDTV.

drvais,

Could have been worse--at least Belgium has other qualities to divert your attention from HDTV (beer, travel, food, etc.)

Hopefully you've got a good DVD library to hold you over.

Maybe I can cross my fingers that one more local station will get in gear and get a digital signal up before I leave just so I can reach 10 channels. LOL!

I have a good DVD library, but I'm afraid of transporting my set overseas and having it broken in transit. If anyone has any ideas (like maybe shipping it via UPS), please PM me. Otherwise, my set goes to Texas where my parents can at least enjoy it.

I wouldn't worry too much about damage. As long as you have the original box and make sure the movers note the condition properly before packing it you should be OK. If you are military, USAA offers an insurance rider to cover replacement cost if the government depreciates the set.

Unfortunately, the only thing you could watch on it would be DVDs due to the broadcast format difference (PAL vs NTSC)

Jeremy, that is a good deal, a little better than when I was buying the Samsung TS160 about 2 months ago. I still do need to figure out why sometimes the unit doesn't display a picture upon powering up. Happens mainly after a few days of staying in standby/off mode. After unplugging the power cable and plugging in again, it always works. I saw something about this on the net somewhere but I need to look for it again and see if there's a fix. This model does have a ton of great features though.

It seems impossible that Adelphia could get up to speed on HD that soon. I guess we'll see.

Time to go set up the Terk TV-55 antenna I just bought. Don't know why I'm paying $99 just to get KXRM/Fox when I currently get KKTV/CBS with the Radio Shack helix antenna. I guess football season on Fox is almost here.

drvais, sorry to see you go. You've contributed a lot here, obviously.

Well, I'm not gone yet. ;)

You can trust that I'll keep posting until the last minute before I leave, as long as I have good info to relate of course.

KKTV-DT may not be advertising that they are on the air but the National Association of Broadcasters is. See the link below:

http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/PressRel/Releases/3503.htm

Roy

Wow, what a find! That's pretty bad that the NAB makes the official announcement before the actual station does.

I also noticed TitanTV is now listing KKTV-DT and KXRMDT as up and running.

I check pretty often and tonight is the first time it has listed them. Seems a bit weird since fox still seems in the 12-12 testing mode.

ABC has July 31st listed... that's in time for MNF... I wonder if they have had any progress since KKTV is going along with broadcasting.

Well, it's all over now. I just caved in and bought a Samsung TS160 w/ dish and installation for $500 from expertsatellite.com. Pretty good deal I think, but boy I sure do give in easy!

What do you think I need to pull in OTA stations? I'd like to get an inexpensive indoor antenna if possible. That Rat Shack double bowtie is cheap, but really looks crappy. I guess I could hide it behind my TV if that will work.

Now I have to play the waiting game - 3-5 days for delivery, then a few days for the installer to come. I can't wait to see bugs in HD! :)

I'm also really excited about MNF, Vaggeto. That makes ESPN, CBS, ABC, and eventually FOX with HD football. This is gonna be sweet!

Drvais, maybe you should get a DVHS to bring some HD content with you. You could show the Belgians what HDTV looks like and become their God. (Or maybe not) ;)

I'd love to record some HD, but with an E86 the only way is to pay $1500 to have 169time.com mod it to output with firewire.

Jeremy... the Stealthtenna worked great for me. Which area are you in? How's your line of sight to the towers?

BTW: You don't need an installer! You could do it yourself if the installer takes too long, it's not very hard. You could even have someoneh old it still in the right direction and watch a bit of HD :-)

I live just off I-25 and Rockrimmon. I've got a great view of Cheyenne Mountain. The mountains don't block the satellite signal do they? There is a small hill just outside my apartment, but you can see the mountains over it still. The stealthtenna is an outdoor one, right?

I was planning on doing the installation, but I figured I'd let them do it since it's included. My main issue is how I would get the cable from the outside to inside my apartment. I wouldn't be surprised if end up turning my nieghbor into a satellite holder so I can get a peek of HD.

When I get my stuff delivered, should I call directv to get programming, or wait for the installer to do it?

Actually, the dish won't be pointed at the mountains. It will be pointed to the East of them. Easiest way to see where it will be pointing is look around at a few houses while driving, and you'll see some dishes around. Also, don't forget before you have programming and you have your box you can use a cheap antenna and try to get some OTA CBS HD.

Well, my equipment will arrive Friday, and it is getting installed on Saturday. I'm looking for an antenna for OTA now. It looks like RCA has the ANT1020 and ANT1030 (amped), and both got decent reviews. Zenith has one that got good reviews, it's just a matter of finding one. (Maybe CC or Sears) Since I'm in the "yellow" for antennaweb.com, just about anything should work, right?

Any UHF/VHF antenna will work fine, just stay away from the Terk crap that has been talked about and ridiculed (especially the "clip-on" dish type) on these forums quite often. Don't be fooled by "HDTV-Ready" antenna claims, any UHF/VHF antenna will work great. I use a small Recoton multi-directional amplified antenna (I'm in Briargate) and it pulls in the stations with no problems.

I spoke with Charlie Upton, head engineer, at KRDO the other day and he said that TitanTV's projected digital date for KRDO (31 Jul) was unrealistic. At best, he hopes to have something "up by this Fall."

Damn...

On another note... has anyone seen the PBS commercial advertising DTV and HDTV? I forget the two names who sponsor the commercial... but it's good to see something on it. Too bad we don't even have a digital signal that they're advertising from them yet.

I agree with Dan, try the cheap non-Terk antennas first. I'm still using a $30 Radio Shack helix/dipole antenna, and am now getting both KKTV-DT and KXRM-SD at 77% strength way up here almost to Monument.

Does anyone know the hours of Fox's digital broadcast? I thought someone said it was 12 hours a day - which 12 hours is that?

Interesting that Fox's digital programming is 4x3, not native 16x9 or stretched to 16x9. I was told the All-Star game was broadcast 16x9, but the baseball game of the week last Saturday afternoon was 4x3. My Samsung tuner won't stretch a digital signal to widescreen; maybe all tuners are like that. Gotta be vigilant about avoiding burn-in...

I have noticed a few shows in 16x9 format. They were "fox widescreen" and looked pretty good but of course not as good as true HD. I expect several of their weekly series this fall to be widescreen.

I would like to find a site that shows which of their shows are 16x9. HDTV magazine doesn't list it because it is not true HD.

My tuner, an Integra it910s which is a combined big dish and ota tuner, can stretch 4x3 digital material. I don't know about others. It would be nice if KXRM would add colored vertical side bars to reduce risk of burn in for customers who can't stretch.

Roy

I think almost all stbs can stretch 4x3 content to16x9. You need to go to setup and tell the box your TV is a 4x3 tv, and it will fill the screen.

I prefer they keep things in OAR. For crying out loud, ESPN-HD looks like crap with their 4x3 programming stretched to 16x9.

You won't experience burn-in as long as you don't spend more than half of your TV's life watching 4x3 material on a 16x9 screen.

Vaggeto, many STBs cannot stretch a 16x9 image with a 4x3 image being displayed inside of its window, like what is the case with KXRM.

I don't know if I would say half your time with those black bars. People who spend less then half their time on Fox news, CNN, etc, have burn-in. I say more then 20% of the same image is the max.

Yeah, the manufacturers such as for my Mitsubishi RPTV generally say over 15% of your viewing time is a risk for burn-in.

Originally posted by TallGuy
Yeah, the manufacturers such as for my Mitsubishi RPTV generally say over 15% of your viewing time is a risk for burn-in.

Or get a DLP RPTV. No burn in! :)

Originally posted by chanceG
Or get a DLP RPTV. No burn in! :)

True, but you don't get a 65" DLP with HD tuner for $3500, now do ya? :eek:

The only DLP RPTV I've seen is at BestBuy and I really like it!

If I ever go RPTV again it will most likely be one of those.

Originally posted by TallGuy
True, but you don't get a 65" DLP with HD tuner for $3500, now do ya? :eek:

Alas, no. However, I've got the Samsung 56" on order for $4400. It can be had for $3900 by mailorder. Of course, no HD tuner though. :(

Just checkin' from the Denver OTA HD thread.
Do you guys/gals have a website with the stations status? If not, could you post a quick status of the stations down there - Thanks!

Below is the status of all our stations:

Originally posted by drvais


(edit) ****
KKTV (CBS)
Status: Fully up and running.

****
KRDO (ABC)
Status: Plans on hold
Remarks:
The Cheyenne Propagation Company (CPC), the same folks giving KKTV legal headaches, is also asking KRDO for extra $$$ if they set up a digital antenna on their property. Apparently, CPC wants to charge for every new digital signal sent out by a station on its property.
Currently, KRDO could actually get away with setting up a digital antenna as their current contract with CPC, which allows new antennas to be built, is still good for a few more years. However, they are worried about being hit up later with insane cost increases by CPC during their contract renewal.
From what I gather, KRDO is waiting to see what comes of CPC's lawsuits against KKTV before they take any further action. If the lawsuits against KKTV get dismissed, which I hear they will be, then perhaps KRDO can feel ready to move forward without any legal hassles.
Expected Live Date: Unknown

****
KXRM (FOX) / KXTU (UPN)
Status: (edit) Broadcasting from 12PM-12AM not upconverted. (by the looks of it)
Remarks:
According to Roger at KXRM engineering, nearly all of their equipment is in place to begin broadcasting. Their antenna setup should have been completed by the end of today. He said that a transmitter technician was coming in very soon and that we might actually see test signals by next week!
He said they also have their antenna on CPC's property, however, they have a "newer" contract with CPC than KRDO or KKTV does and that they should not have any legal problems doing what they're doing.
While the chief of engineering, Mike Dunlap, was unavailable for comment, Roger hinted that he'd heard that KXRM will upconvert the 480p feed coming from the network to 1080i for local broadcast.
Unfortunately, Roger did not know for sure if KXTU would be going digital right away as well, but I'll try to gather that information as soon as I can talk to Mr. Dunlap.
Roger said keep on eye on their website (www.kxrm.com) for an official announcement of their DT status. He said that KXRM will heavily promote it when they're ready to go.
Expected Live Date: By the end of next month

****
KOAA (NBC)
Status: Plans on hold
Remarks:
I spoke to Quentin at KOAA engineering, and he said that they're still awaiting a construction permit from the FCC. He said that earlier this year, the FCC actually gave them a permit, then revoked it a week later when it was discovered that KOAA's digital signal would interfere with another DT station in Denver (folks in the Denver thread probably know more about what I'm talking about). However, KOAA does have some equipment in place already, and their microwave link to the transmitter is digital-ready.
Expected Live Date: 6 months to 1 year out

****
KTSC (PBS)
Status: Awaiting equipment
Remarks:
Spoke to the very friendly Ian Hartley at KTSC engineering, and he said that KTSC is still waiting for their equipment to show up. He estimated that their equipment should all arrive by September, and that he'll get it up and going ASAP after that. He did stress, though, that there will be many bugs to work out and that we may not see true HD right away, but we should at least have a digital signal from them.
Expected Live Date: 01 Oct 03


There you go! Sorry for the delay in getting this info. I figured after all that wasted space about DSL and cable, I'd get us back on track with some worthwhile info.

I posted a short summary on the Denver thread.

Roy

We currently don't have a website, but soon I'll start working on getting one up.

I live north of Castle Rock and I am receiving the signal from Ch. 11 in Colorado Springs on Ch. 24-1. The guide says it is KMAS-DT but the news show was Ch. 11. I have a CM 3021 roof mounted antenna pointed towards Denver. Now I know what "full power" broadcasting can mean instead of the wimpy signals we have to live with in the Denver area.

You may be recieving Colorado Springs channel 11 somehow, but it is not the signal from Cheyenne mountain. My house is on a hill in Manitou Springs with a clear view of the antennas. I get a strong signal of KKTV on channel 10 and no signal at all on channel 24. I wonder where your signal is coming from.

Roy

Didn't have time to mess with this over the last couple of weeks, but I finally moved my Terk TV55 HD antenna from the basement up to the main floor just inside a window where it has a direct view of Cheyenne Mountain. This improved the stability of the OTA significantly and I can now tune both KTTV and KXRM without any problems at all.

On top of that I just installed my Sat-C kit and activated the HD package from D*. I'm now in HD Heaven with 7 HD stations I can watch (I get HBOHD but not Showtime for now).

Now my biggest gripe is back to the stretching and aspect ratio issues. I understand concerns from people with a direct-view CRT and burn in problems, but some of us can't squeeze or unsqueeze the picture. With my Panny HDS20 receiver, all I can do is mess with the output format button on the front panel (cannot be control via remote) to switch between Native, Hybrid, 720P, 480P, 480i, 1080i. It seems that I need to set this differently for every channel, which is very annoying.

I wish they had set some sort of standard for what to broadcast or at least what aspect ratio to broadcast. My guess is that as more and more people start watching HD, there will be more complaints. Somehow there needs to be a way for the broadcast station to broadcast their format and have the receiver on the user end pick up that info and switch to the proper mode. Right now this is way to complicated for the average "Joe" user.

Oh well, that's what we get for being on the cutting edge. At least I can enjoy the Discovery Channel HD now and look forward to some NFL in HD this season, even if KRDO doesn't get it's act together.

Yes, it would be great if there was an aspect ratio embedded in the broadcast and all receivers could give us the option of what we wanted to do with each possible aspect ratio. But the industry has had trouble agreeing on the existing HD standards and getting HD rolled out in general, so it's hard to hope for much. As HD gets more accepted, more programming will be shot in 16x9 and then some of those with 4x3 TVs will be complaining about black bars (at least if they want DTV or HDTV...)

Hey, as of about 4:00, it looks like KKTV-DT (11-1) is off the air, at least for me. Can someone else verify that it's down, so I know it's not a problem with my equipment? They had been on the air for such a long streak; I hope nothing expensive broke. :)

Also, KXRM-SD (21-1) is up, but I've been noticing 2 problems: The picture seems jittery, as in there's some vertical bounce, and the audio seems to be a fraction of a second behind the video, for example, when a baseball smacks a glove, the sound is a little late. Both of these are noticeable with Saturday afternoon baseball, and some of the video jitter is really the centerfield camera bouncing due to wind. But the graphics even seem to go up and down a little bit on my display. I tried setting my receiver to 480p/i instead of 1080i, but it was basically the same. Does anyone else see this?

As for KRDO, it would be great if they get their HD going early on in the Monday Night Football season. But whatever happens, at least we're better off for digital signals than Denver! Then again, I think I read that the metropolis of Little Rock, Arkansas, has a whole bunch of full-power HD OTA stations.

I am getting both KKTV and KXRM digitals fine. I don't know what tuner you have but you might try rescanning or entering channels. I live on a hill by the Garden of the Gods with a clear view of Cheyenne Mountain, so I do have an optimum signal. I hope you get the channels ok again.

Roy

I got home and re-checked KKTV around 10:30, and everything was normal. I'll assume that they had a problem of at least 10 minutes around 4 p.m. today.

As for KXRM's video and audio, I'll have to keep checking it out on different days, with different types of programming.

KKTV went in and out a few times today on me.

Also, this was around 4:00PM, so this is probably what you experienced.

I just bought a Samsung T150 for $180 and plugged it into my existing UHF/VHF antenna and what a difference HDTV makes. Now I know what everyone has been raving about. I live in Woodmoor (East of I-25 and Monument) and get a great signal for both channel 11 (CBS) and 21 (FOX).

Seeing CBS shows in HDTV makes quite a difference. I have a PLV-70 LCD projector and a 106" screen and will no longer watch standard OTA signals, only HDTV for me. Can't wait to get ABC for MNF, but at least I can watch most football games on CBS or FOX.

I just hope FOX can fix their sound problems. My sound and picture are on different time zones, usually about 2-3 seconds off last weekend. Does anyone know if FOX is working this issue?

Russ

I also still have lipsync issues, but mine are Very close together. Just enough to tell there's a problem when people are talking, but not bad enough to bother me. If it was that far behind they might have been working on it, or it could have been your receiver. It has happened to me before and when I changed channels and came back the audio and video was synced up again.

rajkej, I share your enthusiam, though unfortunately I don't share your 106" screen. But I remember reading that CBS is only going to broadcast some of their weekly NFL games in HD, and I don't know if Fox is just going to be 480p or if they'll be better than that by September. I just looked on Google but I can't find an answer for either network. Does anyone have a link on this?

Also, in my experience, Fox's audio and video have been off by a fraction of a second. Hope they're working on it.

Well, I finally decided to watch CSI, and CBS doesn't have it in HD. I wonder what the problem is.

They must have figured it out, because KKTV was back to HD from 8:56 (end of CSI) through the commercials right before 10:00. Then all that was missing was a plot on Without a Trace...

Yep, I ended up watching the second half in HD, so they fixed it right as I posted here.

Last night the video/audio on Fox was normal to me. So hopefully they have figured it out for now.

Even if only some of the football games are HD, at least I can see a clear and large picture now. Watching standard OTA pictures in 106" doesn't look very good at all, too grainy and wavy. The digital broadcast cleans it up so that the only issue is if the source is not as good. I have only watched a few hours of digital-non HD TV broadcasts but they are so much clearer than analog that it is well worth $180 for my receiver.

I also can't wait for football in HD. I really wish our ABC affiliate would get their act together so we can watch MNF in HD, hopefully soon. For now we get to look forward to CBS and ESPN (if you have sat). I'm counting down the days until Kansas State vs. Cal on August 23rd, that's gonna be awesome. Preseason NFL will be nice in the meantime.

Right now, the signal on 21-1 seems to be messed up. I have 0% most of the time, with an occasional blip to 30% or 77% with a picture fragment. Is anyone receiving Fox digital as of about 3:05 pm?

Originally posted by rajkej
I just bought a Samsung T150 for $180
Russ

Russ,

Where did you pick up the Samsun for $180? I live in FoxRun off Baptist rd and am considering taking the plunge into HD.

I saw the Samsung T150 on ebay for $180-$200.

I live in FoxRun off Baptist rd and am considering taking the plunge into HD.

Take the plunge. I'm sure you will be glad that you did.

Roy

Got mine at Soundtrack. Clearance price ~197, open box was 10% off that.

There's only one problem w/ HDTV - it makes regular TV look like crap.

True. And it's very expensive to record, especially on a PVR at this point.

It is 825pm and I see no Fox OTA. Is this just me for some reason or did something happen? Was fine on Saturday while watching some baseball but now it seems to have disappeared. Anyone with info or the same probs?

It is 8:50 and I am getting it fine.

Roy

Watched 48 hours last night on KKTV and noticed a slight audio/video sync problem. Anybody else notice this or is it my imagination?

Did anyone else check out KXRM digital for the football game tonight. It looked like they went halfway to carry the game in wide screen. They switched to 16x9 format but didn't switch to the fox digital widescreed feed. The result was a stretched version of the 4x3 standard def broadcast. I didn't watch later to see if they corrected this.

The game was in true 16x9 elsewhere.

Roy

I think I noticed the same thing flipping by channel 21-1.

Also, KKTV wasn't in HD tonight for CSI or Without a Trace, at least at several points in time between 8:45 and 9:45.

I checked the football game out in the 3rd quarter and it was a streched SD version. I'm not sure if the game really was in WS tonight.

I also noticed CSI wasn't in HD near the end of the show.

The game was in widescreen in other markets last night. I received an email back from Mike today and he said they had an equipment failure in-house last evening.

OK, thanks for the info. I hope it wasn't anything serious.

RIght now the CBD-D is displaying the football game and commercials with black bars on the sides. They never do this to commercials.. so I wonder if they're doing this on purpose or just a mistake?

I wonder if they thought the game was going to be in HD and set their equipment to not stretch it.

Meanwhile, I noticed that thy had a brief promo for thier news show during golf this afternoon. The graphic actually listed KKTV and KKTV-DT. That's the first time I have seen any mention by them about the digital station. Of course, tha's a pretty minor mention.

Roy

Actually, they've run that station ID promo since May, I believe.

Something I've noticed the last couple nights with Fox DT...

Somehow when fox is broadcasting a EDTV program... it seems that the commercials they show are also better looking then normal. Does anyone know why this is? I'd say they look as good as KKTVs upconverted SD material. When there isn't a EDTV show on I notice they look bad though... just about as bad as the normal analog station.

Are they showing these EDTV programs in 480p or 1080i?

Thanks

Is KXRM (22) broadcasting all of the time? The last few nights, including tonight, I've tried to tune in and am not receiving anything. I'm still getting a great KTTV signal since I moved my antenna to the front of the house right in front of Cheyenne mountain, so unless they lowered their power or moved their antenna I should be able to receive them. I've had a good signal from KXRM many weeks ago but just can't get anything lately.

I just checked KXRM 22. I am getting it fine with slightly stronger signal than KKTV-DT. Where are you located?

Roy

It's still working for me. Both signals are weaker for me tonight, I'm guessing it's because of the weather.

BTW.. I really wish ABC would tested out their HD for tonights game... I hate watching it knowing it's in HD.

Yeah, I was just thinking that we need to check in with KRDO again. The Broncos-Raiders game on September 22 Monday Night Football would be perfect for us to all have HD parties. 4 weeks for them to get their act together! Plus "Alias" returns soon!

Broncos always seem to struggle on SNF or MNF. I prefer they stick to their Sunday day games. :-)

I thought Alias was cancelled?

I was wondering about KRDO as well, did drvais leave any of his station contacts with anyone?
Alias and Jennifer Garner are alive and well, although it will be three years in the future!?

I'm still here, but I haven't called KRDO in a while.

I'll try and call them sometime this week.

Hey, I got an HDTV several months ago and am now looking at the best option in Colorado Springs.

Do I wait a month for the SuperDish and go with Dishnetwork which has a tuner card for local DTV broadcasts? Or do I get an OTA receiver and a DirectTV receiver?

Or do I get an OTA receiver and wait on Adelphia (who gives me a different date EVERYTIME I call them). I do know they are currently testing in Southern California.

I live in Wagon Wheel near Powers and Stetson Hills

I wouldn't wait for Adelphia. But it seems you've been misinformed about DirecTV... everyone of their HD STBs comes with an OTA tuner. :-)

TRMAS,
I'd what until after the Next "Charlie Chat" on Dishnetwork (1st part of Sept) and see what Charlie reveals about Dish & HDTV. Keep an eye on DBSTalk.com for info on Superdish. The 921DVR is supposed to be released later on this year, around Oct/Nov. I've got a Dishnetwork 6000 receiver and it works great for OTA, but I'll probably upgrade to the 921 when it becomes available! I live in the same area and signal strength is great.

There is one more HD option: Bell ExpressVu, the Canadian equivalent of Dish Network. It is the only way to get the 5 major U.S. networks now. They also just added Discovery HD and the Canadian equivalent of ESPNHD.

(I happen to have an ExpressVu 6000 tuner for sale but I promise that is not why I added this to the list of options that are being discussed :) )

If anyone wants any info about Expressvu, let me know either in this thread or by private message.

Roy

Thanks for the info and the welcome. Just what is the Charlie Chat and how do I get the information? Sounds like it's definately between one of the satellite providers, and I've had Dishnetwork in the past.

Right now I've got Adelphia for digital cable with the modem, and they just blow chunks. It was a cheaper option than Dish, and my wife really wanted the local channels. How's the OTA quality on the receiver cards if I DO go with one of the satellite networks?

I really want my wife to see HD quality because she thinks that DVD is as good as it gets.

"Customer Charlie Chat" is a program that comes on one of the Dishnetwork channels every month. Charlie Ergen is the E* CEO and he talks about what is going on with Dishnetwork, answers subscribers question, that sorta thing. Since you do not have Dishnetwork DBStalk.com does have a number of threads regarding the "chats." OTA quality is very good, but is really depentant on how well the local stations are doing at getting the signal out. Lots of growing pains, but at least we have 1 major network in HD. Keep in mind that FOx is EDTV, although they are supposed to upvert in the future.

I finally made the HD DirecTV leap. It was nice being able to cancel Adelphia at last. I had heard the SD PQ was better with D* over Adelphia, but I had no idea it would be so significant.

(In answer to your question).. I considered waiting, but now I'm glad I didn't.

trmas,
sent ya a PM

BTW... if you have cable and powerlink... if you cancel digital cable, you still receive standard cable channels.

BTW... I don't notice any difference in adelphia and D* SD quality. What I have noticed lately is that I can actually see compression atificats when watching FX over cable on a 20" TV. I never saw any atrifiacts like this until maybe a month ago.

It may have been my signal/connection with Adelphia that was so horrible... I would assume so if others say there's not much difference in PQ.

Now if the price of DirecTV internet would come down to around $30 w/free installation, I'd be set. :)

Vaggeto, I have powerlink and D*, but I don't get standard cable channels. Kinda wish I did.

Weird. Once we cancelled cable we kept getting the standards. I could swear a few years ago they advertised their broadband to include standard cable... I don't see that anymore. I've had cable since it came out around my area years ago... maybe because I'm on older customer? How long have you had powerlink?

When I lived in Briargate and signed up for Powerlink (I never have subscribed to Adelphia cable tv service) they had problems getting it to work and at one point they removed the video trap from inside their pedestal. Turned out to be something else but they forgot to re-install the video trap and I conveniently forgot to remind them also. So I had the standard cable channels along with my Powerlink. But then I rarely used it anyway, as D* has much better pq, at least they did a couple years ago when I had both. In my area the video signal levels were too far off with Adelphia. One channel would look great, the next bad, one with red color level good, next too much, etc.

I would guess with Vaggeto they were too lazy to go install a video trap or just forgot also.

Oh, that might be it. :-)

I just received this response:

We have no immediate plains to broadcast in HDTV but we will be broadcasting our NTSC signal up-converted to digital by November 2003. By the way KKTV is not broadcasting in HDTV they are up-converting the NTSC signal.

thank you for viewing

Joe Reed
IT Manager
Pikes Peak Broadcasting
719-575-6213

Obviously Joe Reed hasn't been watching preseason NFL in HDTV on CBS. :)

That's probably what it is, celfon. It would be nice if they had left mine on, then I could watch cable while my Samsung 160 is rebooting. :( (Although I think I've figured out why)

My thoughts too. That would be some killer up-converting!

I just called his office and left a message correcting him about KKTV and HDTV.

Good to know that thier competition doesn't have any idea that they are the first station around here to show HD OTA and that they have been for a few months.

But then again... if he calls what KKTV shows "upconverting their signal"... maybe they will do the same thing and really be showing HD :-)

I can't wait... November seems so many Monday Night Footballs away.

*sigh*

I could have sworn I've watched CSI HD on KKTV.. hmm. Must be my mistake. Next thing you know, you'll hear them saying KXRM isn't displaying true HD in their tests... *ducks* :)

Hehe.. Play... what are you referring to with the KXRM tests? I haven't heard about these or I just don't understand what you're talking about.

Re: picture quality on regular channels
I have local channels on both Adelphia and DirecTV right now, and I must say that they are equal or sometimes the cable version is actually a little bit better. But that may be because I live in a newer neighborhood with newer lines in the ground, or because I griped to Adelphia once and they offered to bring out a line amplifier and install it where the cable comes into the house, before the splitter to the different rooms, all for free. It definitely got rid of some picture static, so some may want to ask for it. No downside.

Re: cost between cable locals and DirecTV locals
I end up watching DirecTV locals recorded on my 2 DirecTivos and appreciate that the picture quality plays later (time-shifted) at the same exact quality as originally received by my dish. (Of course, a regular TiVo using a cable source degrades the analog picture through the compression/decompression process, and those TiVos are more expensive with the lifetime subscriptions.) But it wasn't worth my dropping Adelphia totally, because their basic cable on top of PowerLink Internet is $15/month, vs. dropping all cable TV service they increase your PowerLink by $12/month! They have you over a barrel. So for the extra $3 I get the basic cable channels in 2 guest rooms without having to buy satellite receivers for those rooms and pay DirecTV extra for those rooms every month, plus I get Adelphia's channel 6 so I can see the Rockies lose on the weekends. But the cost is higher than I want -- guess I'm addicted to PowerLink and they know it.

Re: Playdoh's comment about DirecTV Internet
I have used Dish Network's Starband internet product at my in-laws' house, and it is about 10-25% as fast as PowerLink. I couldn't stand the latency. But that's for another forum...

Re: KRDO
Wow, their comment was clueless. The only thing I can think is that they checked out KKTV during the wrong shows, only when they were showing upconverted syndicated or primetime non-HD shows. And when KRDO does start their digital transmissions in November, I guess that will look a little bit better but it most likely won't even be 16x9.

Re: KXRM
What tests could they possibly do in HD? I thought Fox nationally was just starting to announce that in the future they will move some of their programming from 480p to 720p, beginning fall 2004. http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/news/n_fox_reads.shtml

FYI: CSU vs. CU on ESPN-HD this Saturday night
If you DirecTV-HD folks weren't aware: http://espn.go.com/espnhd/schedule.html

I'm aware of that CSU game and waiting!

And about anything but Powerlink... I couldn't take it. They know most people who get used to cable feel they couldn't live without it... I remember when it was $30/month + $5 modem... It keeps going up.

Well, I caved. I have a friend who works for Dish and they are WAY behind on HD. The Superdish won't be out until October at the EARLIEST, and they are STILL in negotiations for ESPN HD

So I called Soundtrack today and got the DirectTV deal. Got the Zenith receiver with DVI, install, and the Dish for $399 after a $100 rebate. I also got an extra receiver for the upstairs room at no cost. They will be out on Saturday at noon to install - I'm ordering the A&M game on PPV to celebrate!!

Now, what is the best antenna solution to get the local HDTV broadcasts? I've been told the Zenith receiver is the same as the Sony HD200, and has excellent OTA capabilities. The best part is that I will get the total choice plus, HD package, HBO, and SHO for less than I used to pay for everything at Dish. Tomorrow I will call Adelphia and cancel service for Saturday night.

Just to set the record straight, and probably repeat what most everyone here already knows, KKTV passes on all CBS HDTV programing in its native 1080 i format. That includes the Dolby Digital Stereo 2 / 0 sound. In some instances like the US Open, it is scheduled to be in Dolby DIgital 5.1 Surround. Theres even one soap opera "The Young and the Restless" in the daytime. All the rest of the time the analog NTSC signal is upconverted to 16 X 9 1080 i format. KKTV-DT is also at full power which very closely matches the KKTV coverage. In some cases it surpasses it.

TIm Timora
KKTV

Tim,

It is great to have someone from KKTV participating in the forum. Does KKTV have any plans to publicise KKTV-DT? A story on the evening news about what is available in HD and how to recieve the station would increase awareness alot. Also, how about putting info about HDTV on your website.

Roy

Re: the best antenna out there, I'm convinced that you start with the cheaper ones from Radio Shack that say HD and UHF/VHF, and as long as you receive the 2 Colorado Springs digital stations at a decent signal level and you don't need the analog stations, that's good enough. I returned the $99 Terk TV-55 to go back to my $30 Radio Shack dipole/helix antenna because the digital signal strengths were exactly the same.

A stealthtenna works great for me...

Great to see we have someone from KKTV participating here.

But I was wondering if you guys plan on sending guide data out anytime soon?

trmas - I use a $10 UHF/VHF antenna and it works great for HD. I think an "HDTV" antenna is a bit of a marketing gimmick. It probably depends on where you live, you might need a good one if you're out in the boonies.

I live on the Northern part of the Powers corridor. The Wagon Wheel area where Austin Bluffs and Rangewood meet. At the top of the hill. It's definately not the boonies.

I've got an old UHF indoor antenna in the basement I'll dig up before Saturday and try after they install it.

KKTV has been somewhat mum on announcing the launch of DTV because of the pending litigation between us and the property owners of our transmitter site. Information on when KKTV would be transmitting HDTV programming can be found at the CBS web site. As for sending guide data out; there are no immediate plans to start filling the guide with information because of the very high cost of doing so. However the prices for this DTV stuff is dropping all the time.

Thanks.

Do you guys have any plans to show any Bronco games that aren't national in HD?

I know this isn't the forum for this, but since there are a lot here who have directv service and the deal is so good, I thought I should pass on the info. I happened to order a directv/tivo dvr yesterday with the friends and family code and it has been reduced again to $99 for current customers. Anyway, if anyone wants more info you can pm me or check this forum link where I posted on it also:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127506&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
Must keep service for 1 year with this but still a great deal, beats $250 from BB, etc.

At present, KKTV has only HD programing that CBS provides. So the answer is no to the Bronco's question.

If you haven't seen it yet, there's an article in todays Gazette about another "Channel Shuffle" at Adelphia. The good news for cable subscribers is that they will be getting some HD offerings (HBO, SHO, KKTV, & FOX), bad news is that it will cost you folks an additional $10.00 a month to rent the new box.

Thanks for the tip. I just read the article. If they add ESPNHD and HDNet, I would probably get it through them.

This will increase HD viewership in the Springs a lot. I know a guy with an HD ready set who won't get HD until the cable guy can hook it up for him.

Roy

Originally posted by royrose
I know a guy with an HD ready set who won't get HD until the cable guy can hook it up for him.

Connect-o-Phobic?

Yah... for some reason I have a hard time believing them. But we'll see.

Tim, it's so great to finally have you participating in our little thread!

I really appreciate your efforts and your department's efforts in getting KKTV-DT up and running properly.

Addendum: Oops, I just saw that you actually snuck in a post back in May!

Thank you! :)

I really hope Adelphia does do HD. Maybe it will give our other local stations incentive to get their HD stuff going. I wonder how that HD will go since I notice pixelation on cable channels now which I've never noticed before. Maybe they are already testing them and they compressed the other channels to compensate. O-well... I still doubt we'll have it for awhile.

Supposedly it's going to be a while before Adelphia gets their HD content out. That's direct from their HD department. I guess we'll see.

I'm pretty happy with DirectTV right now, so it doesn't really matter to me unless they can add the locals. Then maybe I'll supplement my DirectTV with the local channels.

Here's a link for ya, it shows the start dates for the new season. We might get some use out of these HDTV's yet!!

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,274%7C82688%7C1%7C,00.html

I was wondering if everyone else is seeing pixelating on any of the football replays on KKTV? Up until they did these I never noticed it... so I don't know if they are somehow limiting the bandwidth now... or why it's doing it... but when ground level cameras follow a play... it pixelates very badly here.

I haven't caught football on KKTV yet. I didn't think there were any NFL games on CBS last Sunday because of preseason. Are you referring to last Saturday's college games? Only 3 days until the Broncos though.

Sorry... when I said replays I meant the news coverage of Air force etc... they hsow clips of practice every night and it pixelates pretty badly.

Sorry... when I said replays I meant the news coverage of Air force etc... they show clips of practice every night and it pixelates pretty badly.

OK. I haven't seen that, but it's always seemed to me that programming produced by the Colorado Springs stations is often a bit lower picture quality than nationally produced programming. (No offense to Tim.)

I completely disagree, TallGuy, with respect to HD programming PQ versus HD programming PQ off DirecTV

I'm not sure what he meant... we have no locally produced HD.. so he's not referring to HD. I think he means local shows like the news, compared to let's say a dateline type show that's national. I actual think the news is extremely detailed compared to other SD. But that pixelation is still there... I hope it doesn't do that for the Broncos game.

Yes, I thought we were talking about the KKTV-DT feed of local news coverage of Air Force practice, not HD at all. I do have to remind myself though that fewer flaws are noticeable on SD programming on regular-sized 4:3 TVs than on the big screen, whether stretched or not.

The picture for the Bronco's game is terrible. I haven't seen pixalation this bad before!

Looks decent to me... only seen pixelation in a few closeups.

The wide shots aren't too bad, but the close ups are nasty.

I am getting no pixilization at all. Could your reception be affected by the weather?

Roy

The game isn't in HD anyway, so why do we care?

Originally posted by drvais
The game isn't in HD anyway, so why do we care?

What happened here? I've waited months for HD football and not even the half time show was in HD. Fox's first game was in 4:3 too, what a disappointment.

Is there any way to tell ahead of time what games will be broadcast in HD?

Raj... I'm not sure... it should be listed in the HD programming forum though, even Fox WS games get listed there.

The Chiefs game looked amazing, and sounded amazing too!
I only watched little clips of it though because of the Broncos. There is a fox widescreen game on now locally though. There was one on earlier, but I think they decided to put on the better teams rather then the WS game.

Broncos PQ was pretty decent here considering it wasn't HD.

US Open final in HD on KKTV-DT now has incredible detail, after getting used to the football game...

But I'm having a lot of trouble receiving KXRM's digital signal. Got it a little bit around noon, with 77% signal strength, though the picture was jerky and sometimes with a lot of pixelation. The last few hours it can't receive the signal at all. I'm trying to figure out whether it's the weather (which is clear now), my antenna setup, or the station. Has anyone else had any problem receiving channel 21-1?

My signal moves around a bit too... but I no longer think weather messes with it. Somtimes when it's pouring out I have 100 signal, and when it's nice out I can go as low as 77. I have no idea... but I've never had any problems receiving it though.

Here's a link to CBS' NFL schedule. The first 4 weeks have the HD game denoted, and none are Broncos games. Don't know if any of these will be shown in the Colorado Springs market. Of course, no Fox games are HD and all ABC Monday Night Football games are HD . . . just not transmitted here. :(
http://www.sportsline.com/u/cbs/schedule/nfl.htm

I'm guessing wither week 5, week 8, week 11, week 13, week 14, or week 17 have better chances of being HD. They are normally good games especially the Oakland or KC games.

I wish they'd tell us now.. but they might be waiting to see what teams might be closer matchups before the decide.

BTW... did anyone else notice the CBS Sunday night movie was SD? I figured they weren't sending the HD signal out at all. Turns out it was a local problem.

Yeah, I wondered if it was a local issue or not.

Does anyone else notice the horrible block artificacts during fast movement shots in the South Carolina @ Georgia game? I wonder what data rate KKTV is sending out their signal because this looks horrible!

Yes, I am showing off the set to my brother and artifacting in motion is very bad. I also noticed that the scans of the crowd were very blocky. But is things are still the pictures are awesome.

Jack

I didn't see this, but I'm guessing it's the same thing that I was talking about on the football highlights for Air Force etc on the nightly news.

Why wouldn't they be sending full data rate?

Also.. was the game HD??

Yes

I haven't really seen any football OTA yet from them since they keep scheduling it for the Broncos games... I'm guessing the NFL football would be doing the same. Hopefully next week the HD football isn't on the same time slot.

What's up with no HD game on CBS today? I figured the Broncos game would be, but it's not... :mad:

CBS will only have 1 game a week in HD. The first 4 weeks have been scheduled already, the remaining weeks will be based on how well the various teams perform. WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM shows which games will be in HD.

Seeing lots of Artifacts again this week during close up shots. Seems KKTV still does not have their act together.

CBS's HD schedule, just one game per week:
http://www.sportsline.com/u/cbs/schedule/nfl.htm

AVS Forum on NFL HDTV:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300612

NFL national games of the week:
http://www.nfl.com/schedules/tv/national

Looking at this last site for the Broncos appearing on the "game of the week" on CBS, it looks like we may get the Broncos in HD this season on 10/12, 11/30, 12/21 (ESPN-HD Sunday night), and 12/28.

The pessimist says we're missing out on their 2 Monday Night Football games because of KRDO not being digital, plus the last 2 games of the season could be meaningless because they're already in the playoffs or already out of contention. The optimist says CBS has the Super Bowl this year, so we'll definitely be seeing the Broncos' biggest game in HD! (Think positively.)

Once again KRDO (abc) ownership/management has proven that they're still in the stone age!

What artifacts are you getting. I don't see any. What tuner & display do you use. Maybe it is a reception issue. I have a close, clear view of Cheyenne Mountain. Or, maybe, my eyes aren't so good :)

Roy

First portion of the 1st quarter had quite a few, but not too bad since then. All my stuuf can be seen on my site. Signal strength is consistantly above 85%.

Originally posted by royrose
What artifacts are you getting. I don't see any. What tuner & display do you use. Maybe it is a reception issue. I have a close, clear view of Cheyenne Mountain. Or, maybe, my eyes aren't so good :)

Roy


The artifacts I saw Saturday were encoding artifacts. Most of the time the pictures were crisp and clear, but when the camera started rapid panning of the stands or zooming in on lots of action there was noticeable blockiness or blurring around edges. It happened just often enough to be annoying, but my brother didn't want to change channels.

Jack

CBS only does one game a week in HD. I can't find the list now, but it's somewhere in HDTV programming. Broncos aren't in HD for the first 4 weeks on CBS.

I notice that '60 minutes' DTV had a slight lip synch problem.

Jack

Well another MNF has come and gone without an HD signal to watch, and it's not looking good for any HD broadcasts from KRDO in the foreseeable future. Sad really because ABC has a lot of programs that I'm sure would look great in 720p! It seems that KRDO is out of touch with a lot of us (veiwers in general) and really don't care about offering a quality product. I realize that we are not directly paying for their DTV/HDTV upgrade, but we do pay indirectly. Any time that we purchase a product or service that is advertised locally we are footing the bill for the advertising. Perhaps KRDO has lost sight of this fact, that the veiwers actually have a say in the revenues that the station generates. Am I suggesting a boycott of all KRDO advertisers, not really. But perhaps an email from each of us to KRDO's Community Relations would help get them off their collective butts. I realize that there are a lot of people that will think it's a waste of time, but the old saying that every long journey begins with the first step is very true. If you want HDTV from KRDO, you need to let them know! Here's the contact info if you are interested in trying to make a difference. I would hope that many of you are.

Community Relations
Jeff Thomas, Station Relations Director
Phone: 719-575-6260 Fax: 719-475-0815
Email Address: j.thomas@krdotv.com

I've sent Mr. Thomas an email, and hope that many of you will do the same.

Who knows, we might actually make a difference.!

I agree. KRDO is super weak with extra weak sauce. I sent him an email...

Email sent! Hopefully we'll convince someone someday...

and hopefully by next Monday for the Broncos! I would like to think that that would give them a little bit of encentive to do something, but I highly doubt it does now.

Does anyone have a HD receiver that can accept inputs from cable? I think my HD SAT 520 does, but I don't have use Adelphia cable. I ask this because a salesman that I trust at Soundtrack said that one of his customers reported seeing "24" HD channels as of right now currently being pumped out through Adelphia cable. While I highly doubt they have 24 channels, I would be curious to see if they're already sending out an HD feed.

I will check with my E86, but I don't have digital cable. I was wondering about this since if they don't encrypt the signal we should be able to pick the HD channels up. Well, that's how it is for some people.

I'll go check now if I can figure out how.

I got no signals coming from my cable input at all for anything digital. I went up through 35. I'm doing a full scan now.

KRDO has always been the cheapest station around. Some of their so called news stories are poorly disguised promos for thier advertisers.

If you are fed up waiting, you can get all us network HD except WB through the Canadian "grey market". I had Bell ExpressVu burt recently sold my BEV tuner. I could answer any questions that anyone has about canadian systems.

Roy

Is that considered the same thing as Canadians using D*?

Any links to information on it? I really have no idea what exactly it is, but always hear it talked about here.

Has anybody else tried recording KKTV-DT onto a JVC DVHS deck with a Samsung SIR-T165 tuner?

Here is a link about Canadian satellite systems:

http://www.global-cm.net/CAN/canadiansolution.html

Roy

In relation to my previous posting, you folks may want to check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2685330#post2685330

BTW, I found out from a little bird that KRDO is making "great strides" in getting their digital signal up, and that there's a possibility they may be up by the end of the year (albeit at lower power). Apparently, there's still a LOT of legal wrangling going on for nearly all local stations and their desire to broadcast in HD.