My 6412 has been completed freaked out the past several weeks. My wife and I joke that we shouldnt make the DVR mad. Mad consists of simple things like deleting a recording, pressing too many buttons when you think it might not have got the last command, etc. All these cause a reboot. We keep wanting to take it in to get a different box but we have so much on the DVR to watch. If only I could offload content onto an external USB/1394 HDD.

Although today had a promising breakthough.... guide data is all TBA but I press a button on the remote and it actually responds!! I am sure nobody believes me! :D

hehe...don't anger the DVR!

I spoke to customer service and they were aware of the problems caused by the latest software update (73.50). I was told a fix was in the works and should be pushed out this week. We'll see :)

Well this weekend I noticed all kinds of issues with my 6200. I couldn't tune the local channels anymore either via the Box or any of the QAM channels on my pvr. I thought I broke it messing with my mythtv box but something changed. But today I just rescanned the channels and there were 113 qam channels (I'm sure a lot are encrypted). There's a lot of standard def tv coming over qam now and these music channels with some still shot from a quick run through the channels. In the process they took away my nice channel numbers and station names which makes setting up my myth box and watching tv via qam kinda a pain now. I am in the process of unplugging my cable box for a while and give it a fresh start.

Comcast pushed new software to my 6412s this morning. The transport control/reboot issue is gone...because nothing works other than channel up and down now :mad:

Called them and they gave the usual "we're aware of the issue and working to fix it" line.

Just hope the next fix is better than the last 2.

I just got their HD-DVR by upgrading to the classic PLUS pakage so im totally new to this ON-Demand feature. I noticed there are some HD movies that you can see but it doesn't show me if im being charged for them or not. I watched Cliffhanger HD but now i don't know if Comcast is going to give me a surprise charge in the bill. I have read here that some movies in HD are free so how does one know? Sorry for the n00b question but i've never used on demand before. thx.

you'll know when being charged; there will be charge confirmation dialouges that will display on the screen...

I just got their HD-DVR by upgrading to the classic PLUS pakage so im totally new to this ON-Demand feature. I noticed there are some HD movies that you can see but it doesn't show me if im being charged for them or not. I watched Cliffhanger HD but now i don't know if Comcast is going to give me a surprise charge in the bill. I have read here that some movies in HD are free so how does one know? Sorry for the n00b question but i've never used on demand before. thx.

There should be a separate menu category for free movies vs "Movies". I think the older ones (such as Cliffhanger) are free. If in doubt, the charge (or "complementary" if there is not charge) should show on the info. screen for the movie.

I think they only charge for movies that are current (somewhere between DVD release and HBO/Starz/etc.).

thx for your help RockyMountainD. I was thinking that Comcast would at least warn the customer saying "there is a charge for this program, do you accept the charges" sort of message, but i could just go into that movie without any message so i assumed maybe this is one of those free HD movies that i've read about here on the forums. I think you're right about an old movie like "cliffhanger" being free of charge.

thx for your help RockyMountainD. I was thinking that Comcast would at least warn the customer saying "there is a charge for this program, do you accept the charges" sort of message, but i could just go into that movie without any message so i assumed maybe this is one of those free HD movies that i've read about here on the forums. I think you're right about an old movie like "cliffhanger" being free of charge.

No problem. They do have some good free content, especially the Discovery & NG shows.

No ON-Demand and MOJO is out as well.

No ON-Demand and MOJO is out as well.

same story here... also no guide and no DVR functionality. It is just a fancy tuner now.

This is officially a comcastic day! :rolleyes:

My HD-DVR works great since yesterday. On demand works and got MOJO. Havent had the auto reset since yesterday too :) Hope it trickles down to you guys soon.

Well, i called CONcast and the CSR said he will reset my HD-DVR and after 15-20 mins it reset successfully so im happy once again now that on-demand and dvr is working fine so far. Also, all the remote functions are working. Lets see what kind of issues i have tomorrow. :p

same story here... also no guide and no DVR functionality. It is just a fancy tuner now.

This is officially a comcastic day! :rolleyes:

Be sure to call Comcast once it's all working again and get credit for the days it was fried.

I'll have them remotely reset/download today...see if that fixes the problem. Watching TV last night, live w/commercials, reminded me how DVR-dependant I've become!

same story here... also no guide and no DVR functionality. It is just a fancy tuner now.

This is officially a comcastic day! :rolleyes:

Remote reset didn't work, but cold booting (unplug power for a few seconds) did the trick.

New software version is 74.53 (latest avail.) and they've updated the firmware to 16.35.

Hope that's the last update for a while :)

Remote reset didn't work, but cold booting (unplug power for a few seconds) did the trick.

New software version is 74.53 (latest avail.) and they've updated the firmware to 16.35.

Hope that's the last update for a while :)

Did the same thing and just left it unplugged overnight. Today, life is good again! Same software and firmware as you report.

Lets hope this lasts.

Did the same thing and just left it unplugged overnight. Today, life is good again! Same software and firmware as you report.

Lets hope this lasts.

Good to hear. Don't forget to call and get credit for the days it was hosed.

One nice thing about the new firmware is the FF/RW speeds. It flies now! Also, when in FF or RW mode, pressing exit will get rid of the status bar for good (instead of having it pop up every few seconds).

I have a moxi box, and don't get any HD on demand! :(

And I have probs with my (now) Comcast cable internet locking up every min or two for about 15 seconds before network activity resumes. This has been happening for the last 2 weeks.

I'm fed up with lousy service from this company. They raised my rates and took away HD channels! When I complained they have me a 6 month monthly discount to cover bumping me up to the next costlier plan just so I could have my discovery HD, which I've had for 3 years. The worst part of all this is I have no alternative.

I have a moxi box, and don't get any HD on demand! :(

I think HD VOD availability is based on your location, not the hardware. My co-worker has the BMC/MOXI setup as well and has HD VOD.

And I have probs with my (now) Comcast cable internet locking up every min or two for about 15 seconds before network activity resumes. This has been happening for the last 2 weeks.

That sucks. I've been lucky I guess to have stable HSI service from @home/Adelphia/Comcast. Have they been able to determine what the problem is?

I'm fed up with lousy service from this company. They raised my rates and took away HD channels! When I complained they have me a 6 month monthly discount to cover bumping me up to the next costlier plan just so I could have my discovery HD, which I've had for 3 years. The worst part of all this is I have no alternative.

Just out of curiosity, what plan did you have to upgrade to & from for Discovery HD? I thought that was always part of their weak HD package (which is supposed to increase to 25 channels soon...yeah right!)

Anyone know when 57 (UPN/CW) may go digital? Then we would have all of the stations!

I think HD VOD availability is based on your location, not the hardware. My co-worker has the BMC/MOXI setup as well and has HD VOD.



That sucks. I've been lucky I guess to have stable HSI service from @home/Adelphia/Comcast. Have they been able to determine what the problem is?



Just out of curiosity, what plan did you have to upgrade to & from for Discovery HD? I thought that was always part of their weak HD package (which is supposed to increase to 25 channels soon...yeah right!)

I keep checking, but still no HD VOD (I live on the east side). I had 2 Comcast guys here tonight for 2 hrs and 45 mins, and about 2 hours into it they finally came to the conclusion that since there were 3 houses within 1 block of me that had the same problem, that it wasn't my cable modem or F connectors on the RG6 (they tried 4 different cable modems now since Wednesday, and I'm still stuck with this crappy Scientific Atlanta). Eventually, all the Comcast service techs ended up in my basement, 4 of them, discussing how there was nothing they could do and it would be handed over to the lines guys. So, I still barely have internet.

As far as the Discovery HD thing....it all started about, ummm, a month ago(?) when I was told I should be soon be getting Altitude HD on 701. It never became available, and I called and asked about it. They said it was part of their next package up (which I wasn't getting, despite being bumped up to the "Comcast" digital package from my Adelphia plan. They told me I shouldn't have a Moxi box, and shouldn't be getting any HD channels except for the networks.

Long and behold, within a couple of days they all started dropping off (Discovery, ESPNHD), and I called them again and they said the only way I could get them was to upgrade my plan (sorry can't remember right now what I'm actually on). So, for another 5-6 bucks/month (in addition to the $15 that I just went up due to the rate change from Adelphia) I could get all the 7XX channels minus premiums. 6 months from now my $5 discount will expire and my rates will go up again.

I'm paying $115 (which will go up to $121 or so) for cable, internet, and 1 HD DVR. I don't have any premium channels, and I'm on the absolute minimum plan possible needed to get the HD channels (with no premiums), which is all I want(!)

...As far as the Discovery HD thing....it all started about, ummm, a month ago(?) when I was told I should be soon be getting Altitude HD on 701. It never became available, and I called and asked about it. They said it was part of their next package up (which I wasn't getting, despite being bumped up to the "Comcast" digital package from my Adelphia plan. They told me I shouldn't have a Moxi box, and shouldn't be getting any HD channels except for the networks.

Long and behold, within a couple of days they all started dropping off (Discovery, ESPNHD), and I called them again and they said the only way I could get them was to upgrade my plan (sorry can't remember right now what I'm actually on). So, for another 5-6 bucks/month (in addition to the $15 that I just went up due to the rate change from Adelphia) I could get all the 7XX channels minus premiums. 6 months from now my $5 discount will expire and my rates will go up again.

I'm paying $115 (which will go up to $121 or so) for cable, internet, and 1 HD DVR. I don't have any premium channels, and I'm on the absolute minimum plan possible needed to get the HD channels (with no premiums), which is all I want(!)

Sounds like this might have been when they started encrypting the HD channels, so that makes sense. But you were using an HD box, so I'm all confused again. Oh well, that's normal :) Thanks for the info.

Last night, I noticed channels 748, 749, 799, 886-889 were listed, although there's no guide data nor programming yet. The first two fall right in the middle of the existing HD lineup...I'm cautiously optimistic. Not sure what the others might be.

Any other Comcast customers see these or know what they might be? NFL Network HD? HDNets? Universal HD? National Geographic HD?

I hope it's not something like Wealth TV, MTV, Food Network, HGTV or Lifetime Movie Network. But I guess I'll watch just about anything in good quality HD :D

Last night, I noticed channels 748, 749, 799, 886-889 were listed, although there's no guide data nor programming yet. The first two fall right in the middle of the existing HD lineup...I'm cautiously optimistic. Not sure what the others might be.

Any other Comcast customers see these or know what they might be? NFL Network HD? HDNets? Universal HD? National Geographic HD?

I hope it's not something like Wealth TV, MTV, Food Network, HGTV or Lifetime Movie Network. But I guess I'll watch just about anything in good quality HD :D


I'm seeing the same thing as well. If you click on the channel you get that extra "tab" for on demand that you see on the premium channels (the small info tab on the bottom, the on-demand appears above the tab on the right). My guess is more premium channel stuff from this evidence.

Gosh and I was so hoping for...
Weather Channel Goes HD (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/27/the-weather-channel-ramping-up-for-hd/)

Of course knowing Comcast we'll probably have to pay extra for this as well.

do you springs guys have RM PBS, VSGLF, MHD, and ESPN2 in HD? If not, maybe some of these channels are going to carry them...

This rather lengthy discussion (last 20-30 posts) makes my D* plus OTA look better and better :rolleyes:. Maybe we should rename this thread, “Why to Avoid Comcast” :rolleyes:. Has anyone got anything good to say about our local cable provider?
It is apparent that Comcast is struggling and not yet ready for prime time. In their defense, they inherited a mess of corruption and incompetence from Adelphia. I don’t envy them in their efforts and hope they get it together soon. It could be worse, say . . . TWC :(.

do you springs guys have RM PBS, VSGLF, MHD, and ESPN2 in HD? If not, maybe some of these channels are going to carry them...

Comcast in Colorado Springs has Versus on an Analog channel, Golf on an SD digital channel (168) and ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD. Don't know what MHD is.

PBS on HD channel 708 is not a simulcast of RMPBS (KTSC, Channel 8) but is some kind of direct PBS feed. The flip guide shows the RMPBS Channel 8 programs, but that's not what's on. One needs to go to the RMPBS web site to get the programming schedule which is served from the Cheyenne, WY, PBS site. Strange!

I noticed today while surfing the HD channels (>700) that three new channels may show up. The flip guide shows that these channels will be available soon. They're also similar notices for channels around >880. Maybe something good is on the way. Anyone know what's happening.

Versus and MHD (Music HD) are probably coming your way; here in Pueblo we have them. there has been talk about national geographic as well, we shall see...

This rather lengthy discussion (last 20-30 posts) makes my D* plus OTA look better and better :rolleyes:. Maybe we should rename this thread, “Why to Avoid Comcast” :rolleyes:.

I completely agree.... I have D* / HDr10-250 + OTA only HD and my bill is < $60/mo. The tivo spazes out now and then, but it seems much cheaper and more stable than anything CCast can offer.

Last night, I noticed channels 748, 749, 799, 886-889 were listed, although there's no guide data nor programming yet. The first two fall right in the middle of the existing HD lineup...I'm cautiously optimistic. Not sure what the others might be.

Any other Comcast customers see these or know what they might be? NFL Network HD? HDNets? Universal HD? National Geographic HD?

I hope it's not something like Wealth TV, MTV, Food Network, HGTV or Lifetime Movie Network. But I guess I'll watch just about anything in good quality HD :D

I'm seeing those channels as well. With my Sony WEGA and cable card, I've got labels showing up on three of the channels. 748 and 749 are labelled "VOD HD" and 799 is labelled "VOD Fre". My TV only displays the first seven letters of the label (including spaces), so I'm thinking that 799 might be a truncated "VOD Free" (but that's only a guess). So, from the looks of it, it seems these new channels will be used for Video on Demand. I've got no labels on any of the four 88X channels, though, so I have no idea what Comcast might have planned for them.

This rather lengthy discussion (last 20-30 posts) makes my D* plus OTA look better and better :rolleyes:. Maybe we should rename this thread, “Why to Avoid Comcast” :rolleyes:. Has anyone got anything good to say about our local cable provider?
It is apparent that Comcast is struggling and not yet ready for prime time. In their defense, they inherited a mess of corruption and incompetence from Adelphia. I don’t envy them in their efforts and hope they get it together soon. It could be worse, say . . . TWC :(.

I guess they're not all that bad. Like any provider, you'll probably only hear the gripes on this forum :)

I've been lucky to have good HSI connectivity in my area (maybe 1 outage/year). They don't offer that many HD channels, but the quality has been mostly good on the ones they do offer. The only big issue I've ever had was with this last DVR sw/firmware upgrade. I hope the Tivo rollout is a bit less bumpy.

Pricing is OK, but it's always going up. Right now, I could get all non-premium channels + HD DVR + HSI for about $100/month. Every once in a while, I'll price satellite + DSL and it seems to be about the same. Although I'd get more channels, I probably wouldn't watch them :)

The one good thing about cable, of course, is that I can swap the hardware for free and can leave them anytime.

Sounds like this might have been when they started encrypting the HD channels, so that makes sense. But you were using an HD box, so I'm all confused again. Oh well, that's normal :) Thanks for the info.
So what is left that can still be tuned with a clear-QAM tuner?

So what is left that can still be tuned with a clear-QAM tuner?

I haven't scanned in a couple of months. I assume it's locals + music. Maybe someone else has scanned more recently.

Results of my Comcast scan:


QAM Channel Station
110.3 KKTV-DT (CBS)
110.4 MyKKTV
113.2 KOAA-DT (NBC)
89.2 PBS
89.1 KRDO-DT (ABC)
110.2 KXRM-DT (FOX-HD)
89.4 KXRM Tube

Has anyone else noticed that when KXRM-FOX switches to there local commercials during an HD broadcast they change from 720p to 480p? This seriously screws up the recordings I'm trying to make on my computer. This only started happening in the last month or so.

Has anyone else noticed that when KXRM-FOX switches to there local commercials during an HD broadcast they change from 720p to 480p? This seriously screws up the recordings I'm trying to make on my computer. This only started happening in the last month or so.
That's too bad. That was one of the things I really liked about FOX. At least they aren't as bad as KKTV and fall asleep at the controls when they are supposed to switch back.

Rox in HD!!!

Hey, y'all may have already talked about this, but I just tripped across the Rockies in HD on 701 last night. Sweet!!!! Sure beats watchin' the Nuggets get whupped.

Yeah, but I thought the Nuggets have had several winning seasons and the Rockies have no idea what a winning season looks like...?

Has anyone else noticed that when KXRM-FOX switches to there local commercials during an HD broadcast they change from 720p to 480p? This seriously screws up the recordings I'm trying to make on my computer. This only started happening in the last month or so.
I noticed the same thing a while back and I finally figured out what they're doing and how to fix it. The clue was when I was experimenting with a bunch of different programs to edit the mpg file and all of a sudden I was seeing a 480p picture right on top of a different 720p picture. It looks like I had recorded the picture coming from the local station AND the original picture coming from the FOX network simultaneously. Here is how to fix it so you can edit or otherwise manipulate their program content: I use a program called Videoredo to perform a "QuickFix" and the trick is to enable the streams filter! Videoredo is able to detect the two different streams and only save the one you are interested in. If it does not detect the two streams at first then up the samples from the default 8 to something higher and walla!, there they are. Once you separate the streams you can use the resulting mpg files as you wish, I usually convert them to HD-Divx for archival.

Anyone know what's up with Comcast Digital? Wednesday night seems they went down, no HD or Digital to speak of, MTV is coming in on my TNT HD channel, it's a big mess.

Joanr, yesterday I was told a lightning strike knocked out all the digital channels. Most were fixed automatically, but both my dad and I had to call to get the channels reset. Shouldn't take long after you call....

Joanr, yesterday I was told a lightning strike knocked out all the digital channels. Most were fixed automatically, but both my dad and I had to call to get the channels reset. Shouldn't take long after you call....

Ah, you got the lightning strike version? I just got the "we were upgrading old Adelphia equipment and things got fangled up" version. Anyhow, they put me in a que to get the signal re-sent, could be hours, could be days, who knows....lol.

FSN HD Schedule...?

Okay, I give...does anyone have any idea of the FSN Rocky Mountain HD schedule for May?

A good link would be great! Thanks!!

Rockies Schedule with HD noted (http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=col)

Paypal accepted ;)

I noticed the same thing a while back and I finally figured out what they're doing and how to fix it. The clue was when I was experimenting with a bunch of different programs to edit the mpg file and all of a sudden I was seeing a 480p picture right on top of a different 720p picture. It looks like I had recorded the picture coming from the local station AND the original picture coming from the FOX network simultaneously. Here is how to fix it so you can edit or otherwise manipulate their program content: I use a program called Videoredo to perform a "QuickFix" and the trick is to enable the streams filter! Videoredo is able to detect the two different streams and only save the one you are interested in. If it does not detect the two streams at first then up the samples from the default 8 to something higher and walla!, there they are. Once you separate the streams you can use the resulting mpg files as you wish, I usually convert them to HD-Divx for archival.

Thanks for the tip, I hadn't noticed that option before. That worked for files I record directly from my cable box via Firewire but files recorded with my Fusion HDTV card are still unusable. They won't even load into Videoredo or QuickFix. I just wish KXRM would start upconverting every thing to 702p like they use to.

Results of my Comcast scan:


QAM Channel Station
110.3 KKTV-DT (CBS)
110.4 MyKKTV
113.2 KOAA-DT (NBC)
89.2 PBS
89.1 KRDO-DT (ABC)
110.2 KXRM-DT (FOX-HD)
89.4 KXRM Tube


Thanks! Does anyone use the HDHomeRun box? Or is there a better/cheaper QAM tuner that works in MCE2005? Seems hardly worth it to pay 170 bucks for a few channels. :confused:

New Comcast QAM listings (as of 5/9/2007):

83.11 Flix
106.1 PBS
106.2 ABC
107.1 CBS
107.2 Fox
108.1 NBC

We'll see how long these are good

New Comcast QAM listings (as of 5/9/2007):

83.11 Flix
106.1 PBS
106.2 ABC
107.1 CBS
107.2 Fox
108.1 NBC

We'll see how long these are good

Now that's interesting I tried your QAM channels and none of the worked. These are the ones that work for me:



QAM Channel Station
110.3 KKTV-DT (CBS)
110.4 MyKKTV
113.2 KOAA-DT (NBC)
89.2 PBS
89.1 KRDO-DT (ABC)
110.2 KXRM-DT (FOX-HD)
89.4 KXRM Tube


So, I suspect that COMCAST QAM channels may be region dependent within the Colorado Springs area.

I just saw that KOAA still has the weather alert in SD problem :( I haven't watched much since KUSA has been doing fairly good lately until tonights storm so it was a slight shock. All the major Denver stations have the equipment to do HD graphics so it cant be THAT hard...

All the major Denver stations have the equipment to do HD graphics so it cant be THAT hard...

Don't believe that's true. Tonight, KCNC started off CSI Miami in SD with weather crawls. The crawls stopped but the SD didn't, so I called them. It was back to HD within 15 minutes but without weather crawls. KMGH couldn't even show a full SD screen with their weather crawl during Dancing With The Stars. They cropped the SD picture on the sides. And I recollect KDVR not being able to do HD crawls either. So, except for KUSA, there isn't much difference in this category between the Springs and Denver.

Is anyone having issues with ABC using their QAM tuner? For some reason the station is breaking up, kinda like how your not getting good reception using over-the-air. This doesn't occur on any other local channels so I'm ruling out my TV. It just started happening like a day or two ago.

I'm getting all kinds of breakups on ABC, ESPN2-HD, and TNT-HD via Comcast. So, I'm guessing KRDO itself is having issues, perhaps receiving the national feed...

Is anyone having issues with ABC using their QAM tuner? For some reason the station is breaking up, kinda like how your not getting good reception using over-the-air. This doesn't occur on any other local channels so I'm ruling out my TV. It just started happening like a day or two ago.

Yup, same here.

Looked good OTA :)

I've seen some hiccups on KRDO HD via OTA, so who knows.

Looks like the weather warnings on KKTV killed most of the series finale of King of Queens and the season finale of CSI:Miami. Buy a faster server to put in the HD weather warnings already.

Also, KRDO, 5.1 surround sound would be nice!

Is anyone having issues with ABC using their QAM tuner? For some reason the station is breaking up, kinda like how your not getting good reception using over-the-air. This doesn't occur on any other local channels so I'm ruling out my TV. It just started happening like a day or two ago.

Last night's Dancing with the Stars finale was unwatchable (Comcast HD). SD seemed OK though. Wondered if it was a local (KRDO or Comcast) issue or something was wacky with the national feed.

Hmmmmm. Maybe this explains our new mystery channels on Comcast.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/21/comcast-to-add-food-hd-hgtv-hd-and-aande-hd/

Hmmmmm. Maybe this explains our new mystery channels on Comcast.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/21/comcast-to-add-food-hd-hgtv-hd-and-aande-hd/

Good find. I don't watch any of those channels today, but I guess I'll watch anything in HD :)

Spoke to a Comcast rep yesterday about MOJO being dark for the last few days. Although they were clueless about the cause, I was told that there were plans for 9 new HD channels in July. I'm sure that'll happen right on schedule. ;)

Good find. I don't watch any of those channels today, but I guess I'll watch anything in HD :)

Spoke to a Comcast rep yesterday about MOJO being dark for the last few days. Although they were clueless about the cause, I was told that there were plans for 9 new HD channels in July. I'm sure that'll happen right on schedule. ;)

I'm glad you said that about MOJO being dark. I thought it might just be me. I had a problem during the Adelphia/Comcast switch-over and had MOJO and ESPN2 go dark. It was an accounting snafu but it took FOREVER to clear up(7 calls, two boxes and two visits). I thought maybe I was having the same problem this time.

"Good find. I don't watch any of those channels today, but I guess I'll watch anything in HD "

Oh, and ain't that the truth.

Signature updated.

Just joined avsforum and am scanning through the Colo Spgs Thread under Local HDTV Info and Reception since I live here. Pretty cool. I was wondering does any one know which stations locally are transmitting an HDTV signal over the air (OTA)? Just because someone is transmitting Digital TV doesn't mean its HDTV correct? I'm starting to think ahead here since I only have analog cable and TV. The impending switch by 2009 to digital TV means changes are required to my TV system in the next year or so. BTW I'm not too thrilled with Comcast. $100/mo for their complete analog cable line-up and high speed internet. What will digital cost? Sheesh. Satellite and OTA anyone?

All CS locals are broadcasting in HD, some better than others.

Per Tallguys sig....

PBS KTSC
NBC KOAA
FOX KXRM
CBS KKTV sync off; multicasting; blurry in fast motion; weather rpts kill HD
ABC KRDO No DD5.1; multicasting

Anyone notice 8-2? I did a channel scan and it popped up. Looks like the same as 8-1, but has guide data in spanish. Let's hope PBS is not going to water down our best HD channel in COS.

By the way, I was in Phoenix recently and watched some NBA on ABC-HD via cable - it looks much better down there, I think. Granted, it was on a 768p Pioneer 50" plasma, which may be a better fit for ABC's 720p than my 1080i 65" Mitsubishi RPTV, but sometimes I wonder if KRDO's HD equipment is not as good or not as tuned as the big markets. Since they won't pass 5.1 audio to us because they don't have (won't get) the equipment to re-encode it at the station, does that mean they're decoding and re-encoding the video at the station? Actually, the fact that they jack with the audio probably means they have to re-encode a new ATSC stream, so they probably are. I wish they'd just send all the bits to us (within the 19.3Mbps limit).

Rebate period starts today. I just ordered mine from Amazon this morning. $607 Shipped.

Will set it up on arrival, D* runs thru 6/10 - will suspend/cancel D* and then sell off the HR10-250 to help pay for the 3 yr pre-paid Tivo sub.

Gonna go strictly HD OTA and free myself of bad content and high monthly TV bills.

With a $407 effective cost and no more D* bill, the S3 pays for itself after only 7 months and no more TV bill for 2 1/2 years.

Just joined avsforum and am scanning through the Colo Spgs Thread under Local HDTV Info and Reception since I live here. Pretty cool. I was wondering does any one know which stations locally are transmitting an HDTV signal over the air (OTA)? Just because someone is transmitting Digital TV doesn't mean its HDTV correct? I'm starting to think ahead here since I only have analog cable and TV. The impending switch by 2009 to digital TV means changes are required to my TV system in the next year or so. BTW I'm not too thrilled with Comcast. $100/mo for their complete analog cable line-up and high speed internet. What will digital cost? Sheesh. Satellite and OTA anyone?

Welcome aboard!

Call Comcast and tell them you're going to switch to satellite/DSL. They will (most likely) offer you the new customer pricing: $33/month for HSI + less than $100/month for all digital channels + HD + DVR (if you want it). I pay about $100/month for all digitals + 2 premiums + 2 HD DVRs. If they won't play, go OTA :)

Rebate period starts today. I just ordered mine from Amazon this morning. $607 Shipped.

Will set it up on arrival, D* runs thru 6/10 - will suspend/cancel D* and then sell off the HR10-250 to help pay for the 3 yr pre-paid Tivo sub.

Gonna go strictly HD OTA and free myself of bad content and high monthly TV bills.

With a $407 effective cost and no more D* bill, the S3 pays for itself after only 7 months and no more TV bill for 2 1/2 years.

S3 sure does look nice. Still, that's over a grand out of pocket isn't it? I need to win the lottery; not even the big one...maybe one of those $1,000 scratch offs :D

Thanks to all for the comments. A few other questions. Of the stations broadcasting HD OTA, which ones are using UHF frequencies? Or will they all transition to UHF. Last I saw Channel 10 was still on VHF. Will they move to a UHF frequency? I just would like to avoid the hassle (and size) of a VHF antenna. A single UHF antenna would be much better. Also, I'm a bit curious about TallGuys text below:

1.0 PBS KTSC
1.0 NBC KOAA
1.0 FOX KXRM
0.7 CBS KKTV sync off; multicasting; blurry in fast motion; weather rpts kill HD
0.7 ABC KRDO No DD5.1; multicasting
=4.4 HD stations

TallGuy can you translate the meaning of the numbers (including DD5.1) or send a link to a suitable site for this HD neophyte? Thanks in advance. BTW I'm a satcom engineer and did some work with the military's Global Broadcast System (GBS) Ka-Band uplink ground stations as well as having worked on other L/S/C/X/Ku-Band Government/Commercial satcom systems. GBS is sort of like a militarized version of DirectTV - but with more capabilities. So I have a pretty good feel for DBS TV, radio wave propagation, signal modulation/Forward Error Correction schemes, satellite ops, ground system electronics etc. Hopefully that means there's enough technical knowledge to understand most of the discussion here. LOL
Cheers

S3 sure does look nice. Still, that's over a grand out of pocket isn't it? I need to win the lottery; not even the big one...maybe one of those $1,000 scratch offs :D

$906 oop (S3 @ $607 + $299 - 3 yrs Tivo svc)
-200 rebate
-----
$706

-300ish - Sale of my HR10-250 on ebay
-----
$406 +/-

I figure by the end of the year, after I get the rebate, sell off my HR10 and have no sat bill for 7 months, I will break even.

No more paying ridiculously over priced TV bills and only paying for service I find of value (Tivo) - Pricele$$ :D

Thanks to all for the comments. A few other questions. Of the stations broadcasting HD OTA, which ones are using UHF frequencies? Or will they all transition to UHF. Last I saw Channel 10 was still on VHF. Will they move to a UHF frequency? I just would like to avoid the hassle (and size) of a VHF antenna. A single UHF antenna would be much better. Also, I'm a bit curious about TallGuys text below:

1.0 PBS KTSC
1.0 NBC KOAA
1.0 FOX KXRM
0.7 CBS KKTV sync off; multicasting; blurry in fast motion; weather rpts kill HD
0.7 ABC KRDO No DD5.1; multicasting
=4.4 HD stations

TallGuy can you translate the meaning of the numbers (including DD5.1) or send a link to a suitable site for this HD neophyte? Thanks in advance.
I don't think KKTV is going to move from frequency 10 - it's a major undertaking with the FCC and I don't guess that they are concerned with the size of our attennae. :)

My signature is just opinion, and the "ratings" are non-scientific and very subjective. It's just my summary for newcomers, and a way to vent about shortcomings. It was more interesting back when there were numbers such as 0.9 (good HD but guide data missing), 0.5 (HD for live but not regular prime-time), 0.0 (not HD yet), etc. For a while, most of the top 100 markets had 3-5 full-time HD stations and Colorado Springs had the equivalent of 1.5 or whatever...

My main gripes now are multicasting (KKTV is a little better than it used to be but still only uses about 15-16 Mbps out of 19.3 for their main 11-1 subchannel, which makes motion like football break up visually), no Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound on KRDO because they don't want to buy an encoder, the weather crawls on KKTV which take the HD off for most of the night, even if it's a possible storm in one far-off county that has about 5 TV sets tuned to KKTV, etc.

But the signature has to be under 200 characters and it's hard to get on a soapbox in less than 200 letters!

Rebate period starts today. I just ordered mine from Amazon this morning. $607 Shipped.

Will set it up on arrival, D* runs thru 6/10 - will suspend/cancel D* and then sell off the HR10-250 to help pay for the 3 yr pre-paid Tivo sub.

Gonna go strictly HD OTA and free myself of bad content and high monthly TV bills.

With a $407 effective cost and no more D* bill, the S3 pays for itself after only 7 months and no more TV bill for 2 1/2 years.
Yeah, but an HDTV without ESPN-HD is just a tragedy... :eek: Friends don't let friends watch SportsCenter in SD.

Yeah, but an HDTV without ESPN-HD is just a tragedy... :eek: Friends don't let friends watch SportsCenter in SD.

I know this is shocking :eek: , but I don't watch any sports programming. So I think I will do just fine :cool:

I'm actually looking forward to loosing the clutter that they call Total Choice on D*. Sorry to say that would include sports programming ( I already program out any/all sports on the CIR list). After nearly 10 years of subscribing to DBS, I have just lost interest in the content they offer. After having a Tivo for 5 years I notice 99% of the programming I record is network locals, which is now free OTA. So why pay $60/mo to D* just so I can record free HDTV :rolleyes: I'd rather spend that money on an S3, which I expect to be much better than my HR10-250. YMMV - go forth and enjoy sports programming. It's all good :)

TallGuy, thanks for the clarification. Now I understand. So I'm presuming a perfect score is a 1.0. Which means that only PBS, Fox, and NBC have true OTA HDTV (when they choose). Do any stations broadcast audio in 6.1 format? That's not necessarily here in Colo Spgs, I was wondering if the technology exists and is used for broadcast of more advanced surround sound formats. So what does KKTV do with the other 3.3 Mbps? Transmit a second channel? And, why would the weather crawl interrupt HD? Does KRDO ever broadcast a full bandwidth HD signal (minus DD 5.1 audio)? Inquiring minds want to know.
Cheers

TallGuy, thanks for the clarification. Now I understand. So I'm presuming a perfect score is a 1.0. Which means that only PBS, Fox, and NBC have true OTA HDTV (when they choose). Do any stations broadcast audio in 6.1 format? That's not necessarily here in Colo Spgs, I was wondering if the technology exists and is used for broadcast of more advanced surround sound formats. So what does KKTV do with the other 3.3 Mbps? Transmit a second channel? And, why would the weather crawl interrupt HD? Does KRDO ever broadcast a full bandwidth HD signal (minus DD 5.1 audio)? Inquiring minds want to know.
Cheers
I was counting up our total "real" HD stations, in my view, so a 1.0 is a good HDTV station, 0.7 is 70% useful HD station, etc. There are some glitches with the 1.0's (Saturday Night Live not in HD, etc.) but I do allow some minor problems... Picture quality is the main thing, and sound.

I don't think any of our stations will mess with 6.1. I haven't heard of any around the country that do, but there could be.

KKTV has a subchannel 11-2, as does KRDO 13-2. KKTV's has some alternate SD programming, sometimes Oprah repeats or whatever, and KRDO is a SD digital simulcast of their main channel (for 4:3 digital non-HD TV's?) I really believe that there are barely any viewers for them, because it would be limited to digital OTA households who don't want to watch HD. So any subchannel takes up a portion of the 19.3Mbps bandwidth that each frequency has been allotted. KXRM has a music video channel "The Tube" on 21-2, but it has been kept at very low bandwidth, so it doesn't look great, but doesn't pull too many bits from the main HD feed on 21-1. Also 720p doesn't take as much bandwidth as 1080i, so I think Fox and ABC can get away with it having less detrimental impact on their HD picture quality than CBS can.

The weather crawl interrupts HD on KKTV because they don't have the equipment (server, etc.) to create HD graphics on top of an HD feed - it takes a lot of horsepower to decompress, overlay in real time, and re-encode/re-compress in real time. So they flip to SD when there's a storm watch or warning anywhere in Colorado (it seems).

KRDO does pretty much transmit "full-bandwidth" HD other than surround sound - their 720p is usually 15-16 Mbps which seems to be sufficient. It's not very sharp on my setup but that might be because I have a 1080i display, not 720p, who knows...

TallGuy,
Thanks for all the useful information. I'm curious though, how do you know how much bandwidth is being used for the subchannel? Do you have some sort of test equipment? And if so, what are you using? Also, I'm presuming that MPEG-2 or perhaps other modulation schemes are being used to compress the signal into a 6 MHz bandwidth channel. BTW I'm considering a smaller format HDTV (probably no larger than 32 in). I was reading a number of entries on a Consumer Reports thread about flashlighting and clouding on Sony large format (>40 in) LCD HDTVs. Sounds like Sony is (or was) and prehaps others are having some QC problems. Wonder if this problem extends to the smaller format LCD TVs.

Cheers.

Is anyone on Comcast having major issues with ESPN2-HD and TNT HD? They've barely been coming in for me for at least the past two weeks, if not longer. Usually I get the blue box that says something like "You are not subscribed to this channel". Occasionally the channel will come in but its so blocky and pixelated that its completely unwatchable. All my other HD channels are fine...

On a possibly related note, I recently had a tree planted and, due to a mis-marked cable, the planter slightly nicked the underground cable. It barely broke through the outermost layer of insulation so he wrapped it in electrical tape and that was it. Like I said, almost every channel is fine as is my internet so I don't think this could be the source of the problem with ESPN2 and TNT.

Anyone?

Is anyone on Comcast having major issues with ESPN2-HD and TNT HD? They've barely been coming in for me for at least the past two weeks, if not longer. Usually I get the blue box that says something like "You are not subscribed to this channel". Occasionally the channel will come in but its so blocky and pixelated that its completely unwatchable. All my other HD channels are fine...

On a possibly related note, I recently had a tree planted and, due to a mis-marked cable, the planter slightly nicked the underground cable. It barely broke through the outermost layer of insulation so he wrapped it in electrical tape and that was it. Like I said, almost every channel is fine as is my internet so I don't think this could be the source of the problem with ESPN2 and TNT.

Anyone?

Haven't noticed any issues here. Might give them a call; I think if it's a signal issue, you'll see a "This channel should be available shortly" type message.

On a possibly related note, I recently had a tree planted and, due to a mis-marked cable, the planter slightly nicked the underground cable. It barely broke through the outermost layer of insulation so he wrapped it in electrical tape and that was it. Like I said, almost every channel is fine as is my internet so I don't think this could be the source of the problem with ESPN2 and TNT.


If the cut made it through the shell to the shield braid you'll need to have that cable or at least a section replaced sooner or later. Moisture is the enemy of coax cable. When water gets in the performance degrades rapidly.

Can't help with Comcast, love my E* and OTA!

Good news for Comcast customers. According to this article (http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivocomcast053107.htm), the TiVo interface is about ready to roll out.

I'm sure it'll be a year or more before we see it, but at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel :)

TallGuy,
Thanks for all the useful information. I'm curious though, how do you know how much bandwidth is being used for the subchannel? Do you have some sort of test equipment? And if so, what are you using? Also, I'm presuming that MPEG-2 or perhaps other modulation schemes are being used to compress the signal into a 6 MHz bandwidth channel.
In addition to my DirecTV HD-TiVo, I have a little USB HDTV tuner that connects to my computer which tunes in OTA HD. It's an OnAir GT (http://www.autumnwave.com/products/consumer/onair_gt.html). It can display bandwidth rates for the channel as it's tuned it.

Yes, the ATSC spec for OTA HDTV uses MPEG-2 compression, which is what gets the video data from a huge uncompressed stream down to a <19.3Mbps compressed stream that can be transmitted. But as you drop below 17-18, you start to really see a difference in the picture quality.

Good news for Comcast customers. According to this article (http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivocomcast053107.htm), the TiVo interface is about ready to roll out.

I'm sure it'll be a year or more before we see it, but at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel :)
That is good news. I've been wondering how well the Comcast-TiVo combination will turn out and it might be tempting. Cable DVRs still bug me, with the million channels in the guide that you don't get, the extra buttons on the remote that don't get used, the weird menus, etc... It still would be nice if DirecTV would consider using TiVo again - there are some rumors about that now that their ownership has changed from Rupert Murdoch. Who knows. Then again, if DirecTV does have 50-100 HD channels by the fall, it will be hard to leave that.

What the hell is going on with KKTV and KRDO? They seem to be obsessed with weather coverage. It seems every time the sky clouds up we get continuos coverage of every thunderstorm in the state. The sky darkens and you might get a storm, Duh :eek: . And, why do they have to use up 1/3 of the screen for their fancy smancy graphics and squeeze the picture vertically, destroying what little SD detail there was? Killing off HD is totally unforgivable. I watched (tried to watch) the Indy Car race today on KRDO and between the weather banner and way too many commercials from ABC, it was irritating, :mad: Grrrrrrr

Got my Tivo S3 yesterday. Did a channel scan and it picked up all kinds of goofy OTA channels past 21-2. Stuff I'll never watch like Spanish and inspirational programming in yucky SD. The S3 has a very sensitive tuner.

Looking forward to dropping my D* sub later this week. :)

"In addition to my DirecTV HD-TiVo, I have a little USB HDTV tuner that connects to my computer which tunes in OTA HD. It's an OnAir GT It can display bandwidth rates for the channel as it's tuned it.

Yes, the ATSC spec for OTA HDTV uses MPEG-2 compression, which is what gets the video data from a huge uncompressed stream down to a <19.3Mbps compressed stream that can be transmitted. But as you drop below 17-18, you start to really see a difference in the picture quality."

TallGuy,
That's pretty cool. Thanks for the information. Now if I just had the $$$ for an HDTV and accessories ...
Cheers

Got my Tivo S3 yesterday. Did a channel scan and it picked up all kinds of goofy OTA channels past 21-2. Stuff I'll never watch like Spanish and inspirational programming in yucky SD. The S3 has a very sensitive tuner.
I'd forgotten it had an SD tuner in it.

I was testing out my new HDTV today and noticed that 11.1 didn't have any weather alerts during Golf while 11 (analog and DirecTV) did. Maybe KKTV listened and stopped their weather crawl on 11.1?

Wouldn't that be a good change!

Weather strikes again. KRDO feels the need to ruin the HD coverage of the NBA finals for a constant scrolling banner about some sprinkles down in Walsenburg. How frustrating. KRDO is the worst when it comes to weather.

Oh if it were only true.

Comcast Exec promises 400 HD channels by years end and 800 by next year. (http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=62111)

I guess if you smoke dope everything is Comcastic.

Comcast Exec promises 400 HD channels by years end and 800 by next year. (http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=62111)


Assuming this was true, (even though it's not since there is not that much HD content out there anyway), how much of it will be any good?
Crap X 100
Crap X 1,000
Crap X 10,000
All have the same result: Crap.

^^^ I agree. There is just not enough (quality) content to make these claims IMO. I dropped the D* HD pkg quite a while ago because there just was not enough compelling content. Disc HD is cool, but it's not something I just have to have. I have now dropped D* completely and watch HD locals via Free OTA.

Something else to consider is what do you expect Comcrap to charge for all this 'wonderful' HD programming. Their prices now are not so cheap. Imagine the 'Ultra Digital HD Super Duper Bonus Extra' Pkg tacked on to your already rapidly approaching $100/mo TV bill. No thanks :)

Let's see 400 channels of HD? Surely they can't mean simultaneously. I may be a novice here and don't fully understand the technical details, so if I'm wrong on this please let me know - Hey this is a learning experience. :-)

Anyway, let's just say for the sake of argument MPEG-2 (or other scheme) allows cramming an HD signal (including guard bands) into a T1 Bandwidth (~1.5 MHz). So that would mean 600 MHz of bandwidth is required. 800 Channels would mean 1200 MHz. Of course if an HD channel and guard bands occupied a full 6 MHz, then 400 channels would require 2.4 GHz. Just what is the bandwidth requirement for an HD signal (or could it vary) and what is the bandwidth capacity of a typical cable?

I mention all the above, because I'm leery about claims of 400 HD channels on cable unless they are not broadcast simultaneously. I just don't know if coaxial cable has the required bandwidth. Fiber optic cable is a different matter of course, but how many homes have fiber to them (though Verizon is installing some in NY right now).

Regardless, technically it may be feasible, but is there really 400 channels worth of HD programming as jlachance points out. And to echo Rmassey's comment/speculation, what will this mean in terms of rate increases? I already pay ~$100 for high speed internet and all free analog channels (no PPV or premium, no cable box either). Going digital would tip that well into the $100+ range to get all the channels I'd like since I'd have to buy one of the more expensive tiers. Sheesh. Satellite, OTA, and DSL look more and more attractive.

Oh BTW, did everyone see where the FCC wants to mandate that you can buy your cable settop box rather than just rent one? Of course the cable companies are putting up a ruckus about it.

Oh BTW, did everyone see where the FCC wants to mandate that you can buy your cable settop box rather than just rent one? Of course the cable companies are putting up a ruckus about it.

Well, In a way I just did buy a cable box. It's called a Tivo Series 3 and it wasn't cheap :D

Let's see 400 channels of HD? Surely they can't mean simultaneously. I may be a novice here and don't fully understand the technical details, so if I'm wrong on this please let me know - Hey this is a learning experience. :-)

Anyway, let's just say for the sake of argument MPEG-2 (or other scheme) allows cramming an HD signal (including guard bands) into a T1 Bandwidth (~1.5 MHz). So that would mean 600 MHz of bandwidth is required. 800 Channels would mean 1200 MHz. Of course if an HD channel and guard bands occupied a full 6 MHz, then 400 channels would require 2.4 GHz. Just what is the bandwidth requirement for an HD signal (or could it vary) and what is the bandwidth capacity of a typical cable?

I mention all the above, because I'm leery about claims of 400 HD channels on cable unless they are not broadcast simultaneously. I just don't know if coaxial cable has the required bandwidth. Fiber optic cable is a different matter of course, but how many homes have fiber to them (though Verizon is installing some in NY right now).

Regardless, technically it may be feasible, but is there really 400 channels worth of HD programming as jlachance points out. And to echo Rmassey's comment/speculation, what will this mean in terms of rate increases? I already pay ~$100 for high speed internet and all free analog channels (no PPV or premium, no cable box either). Going digital would tip that well into the $100+ range to get all the channels I'd like since I'd have to buy one of the more expensive tiers. Sheesh. Satellite, OTA, and DSL look more and more attractive.

Oh BTW, did everyone see where the FCC wants to mandate that you can buy your cable settop box rather than just rent one? Of course the cable companies are putting up a ruckus about it.




Just to add some details:

Most HFC (Hybrid-Fiber Cable) cable-co's have been rebuilt to allow 125-143 analog channels @ the 6Mhz for each channel (860~950 Mhz range depending on local regulatory stuff).

An ATSC HDTV signal is a bitstream via RF (radio frequency) that takes up the entire 6Mhz previously allowed for analog NTSC (not necessarily on the same broadcast 'channel' assignment though [more regulatory stuff w/ local & federal]).

Most HFC cable-co's use QAM (quadrature amplitude modulation) to deliver broadcast of digital signal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM A quick read on it will explain that QAM is just less than 2x more efficient to deliver signal (ATSC allows just under 20mbit/sec in 6Mhz, QAM may allow delivery of nearly twice this ... so, 2HDTV signals per analog 6Mhz 'space'; or 250~290 at the same time. This does not take into account newer technologies such as "Switched Digital Video" wherein delivery may far exceed simultaneous bandwidth.

Also remember that HFC cable-co's will lend a large portion of the available bandwidth to DOCSIS cable modem based internet access, this would skew these numbers as well.

I think that better content from the programming providers & less obtrusive commercials and OAR would be better; just one man's opinion.

-doGlooP

I've read that the Comcast 400/800 claim is based on counting each PPV movie as one channel, not just the one channel playing several movies, but each movie. Give me a break.

How gullible do they think we are to believe that we'll buy into this marketing crap. Same goes for D*. If either one of them has even close to 100/150/400/800 (pick a number) of HD content by the end of 07 or even 08, I'll fall off my HT sofa.

I wonder if back in the 60s, when Color TV came out, if they used is as a never ending relentless opportunity to market and cross sell consumers to death..... Here buy this 'uber expensive 'Color TV' - even thought there is only one color program broadcast a week for you to enjoy.

dogloop, thanks for the information. Satcom uses QPSK (Quadrature Phase Shift Keying - similar to QAM - typically used in higher order modulation schemes) extensively. Basically every symbol carries 2 bits of information. A symbol is represented by a particular sine curve phase angle in the Radio Frequency carrier. For example the bit pair 00 might equal 90 deg, bit pair 01 =180 deg and so on. That can also be extended to 8PSK (3 bits of info for symbol), 16 QAM (4 bits/symbol) and even 64 QAM (6 bits/symbol). 8PSK uses phase angles of 45 degrees. QAM use phase and amplitude for bit associations. There could be some even higher order schemes out there, but those are the most common. BTW there are no digital square waves in RF transmission, just phase and amlitude modulated sine waves.

However, modulation scheme data rate increases comes with a price - increasing probability of noise. Therefore Forward Error Correction (FEC) schemes and higher power levels become factors to consider too. In general, higher order modulation schemes require more FEC overhead so unfortunately its not just a straight doubling, tripling, etc. of data rate in a given bandwidth as the modulation scheme changes. There's no question though they make more efficient use of bandwidth though.

So from what dogloop says, I'm presuming that cable companies start with MPEG-2 compression to reduce the initial bandwidth requirement, then QAM to make the cable bandwidth requirement even smaller. I'm wondering what FEC scheme they use (or do they?). Reed-Solomon? Turbo? DVB or DVB2 (probably)?

Still, it all comes down to comments made by others on program quality, content, and price. If its garbage, the technical transmission means doesn't really mean anything. Of course we can always exploit a very efficient 0 bit/sec bandwidth capability - the OFF switch.

dogloop, thanks for the information. Satcom uses QPSK (Quadrature Phase Shift Keying - similar to QAM - typically used in higher order modulation schemes) extensively. Basically every symbol carries 2 bits of information. A symbol is represented by a particular sine curve phase angle in the Radio Frequency carrier. For example the bit pair 00 might equal 90 deg, bit pair 01 =180 deg and so on. That can also be extended to 8PSK (3 bits of info for symbol), 16 QAM (4 bits/symbol) and even 64 QAM (6 bits/symbol). 8PSK uses phase angles of 45 degrees. QAM use phase and amplitude for bit associations. There could be some even higher order schemes out there, but those are the most common. BTW there are no digital square waves in RF transmission, just phase and amlitude modulated sine waves.

However, modulation scheme data rate increases comes with a price - increasing probability of noise. Therefore Forward Error Correction (FEC) schemes and higher power levels become factors to consider too. In general, higher order modulation schemes require more FEC overhead so unfortunately its not just a straight doubling, tripling, etc. of data rate in a given bandwidth as the modulation scheme changes. There's no question though they make more efficient use of bandwidth though.

So from what dogloop says, I'm presuming that cable companies start with MPEG-2 compression to reduce the initial bandwidth requirement, then QAM to make the cable bandwidth requirement even smaller. I'm wondering what FEC scheme they use (or do they?). Reed-Solomon? Turbo? DVB or DVB2 (probably)?

Still, it all comes down to comments made by others on program quality, content, and price. If its garbage, the technical transmission means doesn't really mean anything. Of course we can always exploit a very efficient 0 bit/sec bandwidth capability - the OFF switch.


SatCom15,

Yes most cable companies start with the MPEG-2 stream modulated for QAM - de-modulated by the set-top box (decoded from there as well). To quote myself about ATSC as "bitstream via RF", I was oversimplifying the MO/DEM process. It was not meant as mis-information, just expressing the shortest route of explanation. Some manner of phase-shift is used to have the analog sine wave represent digital data streams for SatCom, commercial Satellite, cell phone (CDMA ~ TDMA, etc.), ATSC TV and so on.
I'm glad you added that; I didn't want to.

Cable Co's typically use 64-QAM & 256-QAM (almost exclusive for HDTV channels & those in the "Clear QAM") There are lots of great articles about error-correction for noise/crosstalk; for the most part the local head-end techs get that worked out -ok. I'm not privy to the error correction scheme currently in use by local Colorado Springs CableVision DBA Comcast or whatever they go by these days, but I'm sure they follow a standard that works ok as long as SNR is acceptable on the actual line.
Cramming 20 SDTV channels in one QAM channel seems a bigger issue (macroblocking at scene change, etc.) from a consumer standpoint since errors in noise are a blurb in a segment in a single frame that most human eyes don't catch.

Yes, bad programming is bad programming no matter what. I'm sure I could not stand a full episode of "Step by Step" even in a theatrical aspect ratio with 7.1 surround at 1080p/24, but I would check it out if it were the only HDTV broadcast on ATM. Even on that note, it would eventually force my hand to "Power" at some point. A polished poo is still a poo.


-doGlooP

doGlooP (is that the right capitalization? - LOL), thanks again for the info. Not to worry about the tech details, there probably aren't a lot of us out here that appreciate the finer details of signal transmission. 256 QAM - Wow! I can't imagine that on a GEO satellite link. Still there may be some out there. Cable has the luxury of a fairly clean, controlled propagation path so 256 QAM would probably work well, particularly for short distances. And that probably permits use of a lightweight (low overhead) forward error correction technique.

Yeah, I have a feeling the decision/trade was made by the suits that an error now and then would be acceptable, so lets cram as many useless channels into the cable as possible. Then we can create tiers that split quality channels and make 'em pay. We mere mortals will not notice it and accept less than optimum technical solutions. Look at the quality of service we accept with cell phones. Sheesh. Oh well, with programming like "Step by Step" 0 error losses are probably not needed.

BTW do you know if anyone in Colo Spgs or elsewhere is broadcasting in 6.1 or 7.1 audio (suitable for OTA reception)? TallGuy indicated earlier that KRDO definitely isn't - not even 5.1. Hmmm this begs the question, are any FM stations broadcasting in something other than basic L/R stereo. Home electronics has advanced so far - I feel overwhelmed sometimes. LOL

Guess KOAA 5-1 "forgot" that NBC is broadcasting the US Open in HD... it was HD a couple hours ago, but now is gone. AAARRRGGGHHH

EDIT: 5 seconds after I posted that, it went to HD! They read my mind!

doGlooP (is that the right capitalization? - LOL), thanks again for the info. Not to worry about the tech details, there probably aren't a lot of us out here that appreciate the finer details of signal transmission. 256 QAM - Wow! I can't imagine that on a GEO satellite link. Still there may be some out there. Cable has the luxury of a fairly clean, controlled propagation path so 256 QAM would probably work well, particularly for short distances. And that probably permits use of a lightweight (low overhead) forward error correction technique.

Yeah, I have a feeling the decision/trade was made by the suits that an error now and then would be acceptable, so lets cram as many useless channels into the cable as possible. Then we can create tiers that split quality channels and make 'em pay. We mere mortals will not notice it and accept less than optimum technical solutions. Look at the quality of service we accept with cell phones. Sheesh. Oh well, with programming like "Step by Step" 0 error losses are probably not needed.

BTW do you know if anyone in Colo Spgs or elsewhere is broadcasting in 6.1 or 7.1 audio (suitable for OTA reception)? TallGuy indicated earlier that KRDO definitely isn't - not even 5.1. Hmmm this begs the question, are any FM stations broadcasting in something other than basic L/R stereo. Home electronics has advanced so far - I feel overwhelmed sometimes. LOL


Yessir, that's the right capitalization "doGlooP".
QAM 256 and even possibly 16-VSB (less often used) can be used for transport due to high SNR quality over a closed circuit transmission, I forgot to mention that was possible.

OTA 'broadcast' will never exceed 5.1 via ATSC. The specifications were set already ATSC Standards (http://www.atsc.org/standards.html) & AC-3 discrete between 1~5 channels + availability for 1 LFE. Think DVD specifications with higher resolution & bitrates @ 19.39Mbit/sec; that being said, DVD supports 6.1 AC-3 & DTS compression schemes too ... wink wink. It's just that no major affiliate broadcaster would run that chance of backlash from FCC or parent IP holder (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, etc ...). The only real hope for more channels of discrete audio would be from a TRUE independent.

-doGlooP

I've gotten very angry at Comcast again this week. I actually subscribe to almost everything (high-speed Internet, Digital, HD+DVR, all movie channels). Sometime last week Comcast dropped several of their movie channels. Mostly the west-coast feeds, such as SHOW (HBOP still seems to be active though).

When we called Comcast about this, we were told that the west coast feeds were no longer needed because with the On-Demand system, we could watch anything, anytime! Sure, that's fine if you don't mind navigating through the endless layers of menus in the crappy onDemand user interface.

I'm sure the networks have restricted what Comcast can do, but I'd really just like to see *ALL* onDemand movies listed together in categories (Comedy, Drama, etc) just like in a video store. I really hate being forced to navigate to a specific network (HBO, SHO, etc) and then navigate their menus to find movies. I *don't care* what network the movie is shown on...I just want to see all of the movies that are available.

On top of that, my bill seems to be creeping up a couple of dollars each month. I think Comcast is adding incremental rate increases that are small, hoping that nobody will notice. I'm going to need to call them and threaten to switch to D*. Right now my bill is about $170~ which is just way too much for TV and Internet access. Especially as they keep reducing channels and service.

My guess is that their claim of 400-500 HD "channels" is tied in with their onDemand system. I'll bet they are counting every show that you can watch in HD onDemand as a separate "channel". As people have said, it's just crappy marketing and shows the low depths that Comcast is willing to stoop.

Right now my bill is about $170~ which is just way too much for TV and Internet access.

I agree. :)

Oh BTW, did everyone see where the FCC wants to mandate that you can buy your cable settop box rather than just rent one? Of course the cable companies are putting up a ruckus about it.
The FCC, what a joke. "Im from the government and I'm here to help you" I can just see it now, cable boxes on sale for $1000 :rolleyes: .

MikeP, $170? Yikes! As mentioned before, I'm paying ~$100 for full analog channel line-up and Highspeed internet. I too see those little incremental increases and wonder the same thing about Comcast's business strategy. I don't know, maybe I'm just noticing it more, but it does seem like there are a lot of satellite more dishes out there. Is this saying something? Direct To Home (DTH) satellite service has its problems too (like rain fade and snow attenuation for starters). However, I'm not thrilled with Comcast's digital channel tiering/rate structure as well as quality of service. On the surface, it seems the best value may be DTH, Over the Air reception for local channels, and DSL. However, I'm sure there are drawbacks there too. What's the sense of the others in the community out there? Should we dump cable and go satellite/OTA? Or, stay with cable.

BTW on the set top box issue, I have a feeling this will be like telephones. Recall (at least for us old timers), you rented the phone from the phone company, then the Government said you could buy them. Ultimately this led to lower costs for the handset. I can buy one for less than $10 today, where as renting might have been a couple of bucks a month back in the "good old days". Pretty high cost when factoring in inflation.

Incidently, despite my handle, I'm not in the satellite TV business. I work on large communication and weather satellite systems thus don't have an ax to grind one way or another as far as cable/DTH.

On the surface, it seems the best value may be DTH, Over the Air reception for local channels, and DSL. However, I'm sure there are drawbacks there too. What's the sense of the others in the community out there? Should we dump cable and go satellite/OTA? Or, stay with cable.
That would depend on your needs. If you have any 'special' requirements(channels) then that would be a big factor. For football think 'Sunday Ticket'.

If you don't and Sat and Cable can each provide you with what you require, then it comes down to cost and commitment. Pretty simple really.

Then there is 'bundling'. Sat can't provide a cost effective high speed internet, but cable and maybe the phone company can. So, you may be able to get a 'combined' price from your cable or phone company that beats the others.

Also DSL <> Cable Modem. Cable, if available, usually wins hands down.
....jc

Hi Guys,

I have been a DirecTV customer for 10+ years in Monument, CO, and I'd like to pull the OTA trigger if it will work for me in Monument. I'm not an OTA expert so I greatly appreciate any experienced guidance from this forum.

I am getting an upgrade to the new DTV 5 LNB Dish and Receivers/DVR tomorrow.
I currently have 3 HDTV's in the house.

Monument zip code is 80132. When I checked several months ago it looked like a single OTA would not be able to get me all of the local main channels in HD, e.g. CBS (in vhf) - 23.9 miles.

Here is a current reading for my location from AntennaWeb. Is there a single OTA that will do the trick for local HD and do it well? Greatly appreciate any suggestions.

* yellow - uhf KXRM-DT 21.1 FOX COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 22
yellow - vhf KRDO 13 ABC COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.8 13
* yellow - uhf KRDO-DT 13.1 ABC COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.8 24
yellow - vhf KTSC 8 PBS PUEBLO CO 173° 23.9 8
* yellow - uhf KTSC-DT 8.1 PBS PUEBLO CO 173° 23.9 26
* yellow - vhf KKTV-DT 11.1 CBS COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 10
green - uhf K30AA 30 NBC COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.8 30
green - uhf KXRM 21 FOX COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 21
green - vhf KKTV 11 CBS COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 11
* green - uhf KOAA-DT 5.1 NBC PUEBLO CO 173° 23.9 42

Thanks!
RMO

If you are getting a new dish and receiver you are going to be locked into a 2 year commitment. That has never been an issue for me as I have also been using D* for 10+ years but if you might want to go OTA only it is something to think about.

Your reception should not be an issue, I am using a CM 4228 with a CM 7777 preamp and getting great reception up here outside of Elizabeth. The 4228 does well enough on VHF-hi to receive 11.1 with no problems. You are 20 miles closer so I would think it would work great, possibly even without the preamp.

Thanks for the quick response.

The only reason I am looking to go OTA is that DTV does not provide Local HD channels in the Colorado Springs area, of which Monument falls into. If OTA would work, and work well, it might be the better long term solution, even if DTV eventually provides the Local HD channels in this region.

Based on the AntennaWeb results, would it be possible to go with a Small Multi-Directional OTA (that would support both uhf/vhf)? The CM 4228 would probably work great but I don't think I could pull that one off (due to the size).

I believe when I looked at the Small Multi-Directional OTA's that vhf would be "iffy" at best - but that was almost a year ago. Any SMD's that you would recommend?

Thanks again.
RMO

Hi Guys,

I have been a DirecTV customer for 10+ years in Monument, CO, and I'd like to pull the OTA trigger if it will work for me in Monument. I'm not an OTA expert so I greatly appreciate any experienced guidance from this forum.

I am getting an upgrade to the new DTV 5 LNB Dish and Receivers/DVR tomorrow.
I currently have 3 HDTV's in the house.

Monument zip code is 80132. When I checked several months ago it looked like a single OTA would not be able to get me all of the local main channels in HD, e.g. CBS (in vhf) - 23.9 miles.

Here is a current reading for my location from AntennaWeb. Is there a single OTA that will do the trick for local HD and do it well? Greatly appreciate any suggestions.

* yellow - uhf KXRM-DT 21.1 FOX COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 22
yellow - vhf KRDO 13 ABC COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.8 13
* yellow - uhf KRDO-DT 13.1 ABC COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.8 24
yellow - vhf KTSC 8 PBS PUEBLO CO 173° 23.9 8
* yellow - uhf KTSC-DT 8.1 PBS PUEBLO CO 173° 23.9 26
* yellow - vhf KKTV-DT 11.1 CBS COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 10
green - uhf K30AA 30 NBC COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.8 30
green - uhf KXRM 21 FOX COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 21
green - vhf KKTV 11 CBS COLORADO SPRINGS CO 173° 23.9 11
* green - uhf KOAA-DT 5.1 NBC PUEBLO CO 173° 23.9 42

Thanks!
RMO

I live in Monument right next to the High School in the new townhomes right there on Higby Rd and I get perfect reception with a Winegard SquareShooter SS-1000 (the unamplified version). The antenna is mounted outside my house with an unobstructed view of Cheyenne Mtn and I get an average signal strength of around...

100 NBC
100 ABC
96 CBS
94 PBS
89 FOX

If you're mounting it outside with an unobstructed view, I would HIGHLY recommend this antenna. Plus it looks great too.

Here's a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882172010

Thanks a lot!

I am in South Woodmoor and can see Pikes Peak and the northern side of the front range leading into Cheyenne Mtn - but not a "clear shot of Cheyenne".

Do you think the SS-1000 or SS-2000 would work? I might net the amplified SS-2000 as I have quite distance to go from my DTV dish to the inside receivers.

Can you connect the OTA to the DTV dish and use the existing SAT coax cable leading into the house?

Again - thanks a lot for the feedback.

Thanks a lot!

I am in South Woodmoor and can see Pikes Peak and the northern side of the front range leading into Cheyenne Mtn - but not a "clear shot of Cheyenne".

Do you think the SS-1000 or SS-2000 would work? I might net the amplified SS-2000 as I have quite distance to go from my DTV dish to the inside receivers.

Can you connect the OTA to the DTV dish and use the existing SAT coax cable leading into the house?

Again - thanks a lot for the feedback.

I have 2 separate lines going into the house all the way to the receiver...I've heard that diplexing the OTA and Dish lines together is a bad idea, but I have no experience with that. The amplified SS-2000 should also work fine, but just keep in mind that you CANNOT simply unplug the power and use it as if it were an SS-1000. The 1000 & 2000 use different boards inside the antenna, and the SS-2000 MUST be powered or it won't work at all. I know this because I originally bought an SS-2000 but then had Winegard send me an SS-1000 board so that I could try the antenna unamplified by swapping the internal board. My results are pretty much identical with the SS-1000 (unamped) and SS-2000 (amped) boards as far as signal strength goes, but again, I have a completely clear view of Cheyenne Mtn and can see the antennas on a reasonably clear day. As a result, I just use the SS-1000 board currently.

Hope this helps.

I've heard that diplexing the OTA and Dish lines together is a bad idea, but I have no experience with that.

I'm currently diplexing the OTA and one Directv line. Use a diplexer with a DC block where you put the OTA stuff on the DC block side. It works fine for me.

I also have a direct line of sight to Cheynne Mtn but my antenna is inside my attic. I have a very long run from my attic to my basement home run area and then to my Tivo HR10-250. My antenna is some no-name huge model meant for roof top use but I decided to try it inside first and it works good. I put a 10db amp at the antenna powered from the home run area and then put the output of that into the diplexer.

Russ

I live in FoxRun off Baptist Rd on a treed lot and use a DB4 Antenna (http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html) with a PA-17 Pre-amp (http://www.antennasdirect.com/antenna_amplifier.html) from Antennasdirect.com . I get all the locals in the 90s and use a Tivo S3 for OTA recording. Works well for me.

When I had D* I used diplexers and had bad results. I then added a few more RG6 lines and bypassed the diplexers with improved results.

OTA HD is fine for my needs. There is just nothing on cbl or Sat to justify a $60-70/mo bill IMO.

All,
Ran across a really good, clearly written discription of Digital TV and ATSC. It provides a very nice overview of the subject and its a pretty easy read. Check out this link:

http://home.earthlink.net/~wb9nme/articles/atsc-primer.html

Cheers.

When I had D* I used diplexers and had bad results. I then added a few more RG6 lines and bypassed the diplexers with improved results.

Nothing will be better than direct lines for all of your signals. But if you got the wrong type of diplexer, i.e. something without the proper type of bandwidth, then you will have problems. OTA signals and Satellite signals don't use the same frequencies so they work together on the same cable and a good quality diplexer shouldn't cost more than $10 each (you need one for each end of the cable). Lots cheaper/prettier than running new cable lines everywhere.

Russ

OTA signals and Satellite signals don't use the same frequencies so they work together on the same cable and a good quality diplexer shouldn't cost more than $10 each (you need one for each end of the cable).
With D*'s MPEG 4 they do share the same frequencies. So be careful out there!
....jc

With D*'s MPEG 4 they do share the same frequencies

So are you telling me that there is a down converter at the dish now that down converts the frequency from the satellite before putting the signal onto the cable?

If there isn't a down converter at the dish (to my knowledge there isn't on the 3LNB version) then it would not be possible for the same frequencies to be shared. The satellite would have to be broadcasting at the same frequency as OTA and that would screw OTA all over the satellite broadcast area.

So are you telling me that there is a down converter at the dish now that down converts the frequency from the satellite before putting the signal onto the cable?

If there isn't a down converter at the dish (to my knowledge there isn't on the 3LNB version) then it would not be possible for the same frequencies to be shared. The satellite would have to be broadcasting at the same frequency as OTA and that would screw OTA all over the satellite broadcast area.

This issue has been known for quite some time...

Because of the wide-band frequency range of the Ka/Ku AT9 and AU9-S satellite dishes, using a diplexer to integrate OFF-AIR television signals to the RG-6 feeds from the dish will not work. You must run separate RG-6 lines from your TV antenna to a H20, HR20, or HR10-250 receiver when using the AT9 and AU9-S dishes.

This info came from here. (http://www.solidsignal.com/hr20/)
....jc

This issue has been known for quite some time...
....jc
Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware that the signal was down converted and incompatible.

Wow, that's a good enough reason right there not to go to a MPEG4 receiver. :) The Mac Mini HTPC is looking better and better. FWIW, I'm almost to County Line, use a SS-2000 and diplex the signals with good results.

I'm currently getting my local HD channels directly from the wall outlet using the QAM tuner in my TV, and was curious if they provide the same picture quality as if I was getting them using an antenna? I used to use Comcast for my HD channels, and once I found out about QAM and my TV having one, I switched and notice a difference in picture quality. Cancelled Comcast because of it...

I'm currently getting my local HD channels directly from the wall outlet using the QAM tuner in my TV, and was curious if they provide the same picture quality as if I was getting them using an antenna? I used to use Comcast for my HD channels, and once I found out about QAM and my TV having one, I switched and notice a difference in picture quality. Cancelled Comcast because of it...

If the cable company does a direct conversion from OTA ATSC to QAM modulation then there should be no degradation of the signal quality, you should get as many bits as the broadcaster is pushing out the door. However, if they "cherry pick" the broadcasters signal because of sub channels, like a weather channel. Then at that point they can allocate the bits, and do things like put two broadcast HD channels together on the same QAM channel. Thereby reducing the number of channels that need to dedicated to HD delivery. The cable company should still be able to pass every bit that the main HD channels is transmitting, but it can lead to frequent dropouts and hits on the cable system if the amps and lines are not quiet, and there are no leaks in the cable system. Like going from 64QAM to 256QAM. 256 QAM really requires a quiet cable plant with no leaks, while 64 QAM is far more robust, but can't fit as much into the same bandwidth. Too often the corporate office demands the local cable system to upgrade to higher order modulation like 256 QAM when the local techs and engineer know full well that there system won't be able to handle it well. It can be an unfortunate issue, for both the viewer and the local cable outfit dealing with the complaints.. But heck, they can now advertise they have over 300 channels to choose from, without having invested in major infrastructure like amps and more fiber. But that's what Americans get when there are maybe five major cable companies across the nation, with even fewer in the next few years. Maybe it will come down to just two major cable co. players, just like it is for satellite. Heck, satellite tried a become just one a few years ago with Dish trying to buy Directv.

BTW, if you cancel your cable, you won’t get those QAM OTA channels anymore through the “wall outlet”, who do you think is pipeing those signals into your wall outlet? Unless your talking about having had a cable box before to get local HD through it? Then yes, you won’t need that box for local HD since cable is not allowed to scramble broadcast HD.

MD

BTW, if you cancel your cable, you won’t get those QAM OTA channels anymore through the “wall outlet”, who do you think is pipeing those signals into your wall outlet? Unless your talking about having had a cable box before to get local HD through it? Then yes, you won’t need that box for local HD since cable is not allowed to scramble broadcast HD.

MD

Good Point mdamberger. I wonder too if its possible that GebLX is close enough to Chyenne Mtn for his in-house cable or the cable infrastructure itself to act as an antenna . I know there are several locations in Colo Spgs where Channel 8 suffers bad multipath interference (my old neighborhood for one). I'd receive the cable and OTA signal and there'd be ghosting. Obviously the cable was not very "tight" in our area and it was leaking - makes you wonder how good the cable HD signals will be. Of course Comcast/Adelphia would never do anything about it (like move Channel 8 to Channel 7 on the cable as they do for Channel 11/10). Their fix was to try and rent me a cable box. I didn't want (and to pay for) a box since all I was getting was analog service. Sheesh.

BTW score one for Sony. Looks like Blu-ray will be the Hi Def DVD format of choice for Blockbuster as announced earlier last week. Also there are more videos in Blu-ray format I've heard. From what I've read Blu-ray is superior to HD-DVD.

I had Comcast cable and a box when I had their expanded basic service, which includes the local channels and cable channels like FX, MTV, ESPN, etc...I cancelled them, returned the box, and been getting the local HD channels through the wall outlet. I only watch local channels anyway, so I figured I save the 60-70 bucks. I do get some of the cable channels, but no sound, guess they are encrypted.

GebLX, You're getting local HD channels while connected to the cable outlet? Are you still recieving basic cable service? Regardless, that's pretty cool. Something must be bleeding through somewhere.

GebLX, You're getting local HD channels while connected to the cable outlet? Are you still recieving basic cable service? Regardless, that's pretty cool. Something must be bleeding through somewhere.

No, just the local HD channels. Isn't the QAM tuner suppose to pick up in the clear channels sent out by the cable company? That's what I assumed, since the cable company can't block these channels so I heard.

BTW score one for Sony. Looks like Blu-ray will be the Hi Def DVD format of choice for Blockbuster as announced earlier last week. Also there are more videos in Blu-ray format I've heard. From what I've read Blu-ray is superior to HD-DVD.
Sounds like BD fanboy talk to me. True that Blockbuster has made that decision, I wonder what Sony paid for the privilege :rolleyes: ? Smart move for Sony but Netflix is kicking Blockbuster’s butt. If Netflix accepts the payola then its about over for HD DVD. Don't believe everything you read. As far as which is better, it depends on what you want to see, either way.

Sounds like BD fanboy talk to me. True that Blockbuster has made that decision, I wonder what Sony paid for the privilege :rolleyes: ? Smart move for Sony but Netflix is kicking Blockbuster’s butt. If Netflix accepts the payola then its about over for HD DVD. Don't believe everything you read. As far as which is better, it depends on what you want to see, either way.

Snuffy, LOL. Didn't mean to sound like a shill for Sony. You're right, gotta take all this stuff with a grain of salt I suppose. Time will tell which is the better format.

GebLX, I suppose so. Though you'd probably get better signal if you had an antenna for direct OTA reception. If you live in the Springs, most stations have transmitters on Cheyenne Mtn so home antennas can be small and low cost with only one direction to worrry about which makes for a simple installation. You'd probably get a better signal based on a number of posts here. Just my $0.02 worth.

Snuffy, LOL. Didn't mean to sound like a shill for Sony. You're right, gotta take all this stuff with a grain of salt I suppose. Time will tell which is the better format.

Yeah, the urge to pull the trigger on an HD-DVD player has been strong for a while now ($250-$600). Now, BRD players are beginning to look tempting as well ($400-$600), but are still a few months behind HD-DVD on price-point and features.

I'm going to hold off as long as I can, hoping one of the "exclusive" studios goes format neutral. I think the rest will then follow. Or maybe a dual-format player for under $700 that does all things well :)

Yeah, the urge to pull the trigger on an HD-DVD player has been strong for a while now ($250-$600). Now, BRD players are beginning to look tempting as well ($400-$600), but are still a few months behind HD-DVD on price-point and features.

I'm going to hold off as long as I can, hoping one of the "exclusive" studios goes format neutral. I think the rest will then follow. Or maybe a dual-format player for under $700 that does all things well :)

There is only 2 studios that are keeping this format war going, Universal and New Line Cinema. If they give in to Blu-ray, then it's over, which would make since as every other studio is supporting Blu-ray. The price difference between HD DVD players and Blu-ray players must not be a big of a deal since Blu-ray is still out beating HD DVD 5 to 1 now.

Anyway though, thanks for the advice Satcom15, but I tried using an indoor antenna and I get everything except CBS, and CBS is a must for me( CSI, Big Brother, etc ) so I rather stick with the QAM.

There is only 2 studios that are keeping this format war going, Universal and New Line Cinema. If they give in to Blu-ray, then it's over, which would make since as every other studio is supporting Blu-ray. The price difference between HD DVD players and Blu-ray players must not be a big of a deal since Blu-ray is still out beating HD DVD 5 to 1 now.

In the stand-alone player market, HD-DVD players hold a 60% share. But 60% of the HD discs sold are BRD. (Makes sense since the first stat doesn't include PS3 sales.)

You are correct though about studio support; if Universal goes BRD, it's over. But the same could be said for Disney or Fox...if either of them go HD-DVD, it's going to get interesting. BRD definitely has more potential, but Toshiba has really done a good job with implementation & pricing so far for HD-DVD.

One good thing about the war is that it's driving down costs. For people like me who are are standing by and waiting for a winner, entry will be less painful :)

Good news for Comcast customers. According to this article (http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivocomcast053107.htm), the TiVo interface is about ready to roll out.

I'm sure it'll be a year or more before we see it, but at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel :)

One step closer...software in Comcast's hands now:

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSWEN909320070628

GebLX,
Channel 11 broacasts on VHF frequencies one for analog service (Ch 11 - 199.25 MHz) and the other for the HD digital (Channel 11.1 which is actually using the Ch 10 frequency - 193.25 MHz). This requires a different antenna than the one used for the other channels which broadcast on UHF frequencies (in the 500-640 MHz range for our local channels). So a standard indoor UHF HD TV antenna will probably not work well for CBS channels (Ch 11/11.1). That makes it kind of annoying because a larger antenna is needed just for that one channel. :mad:

Cheers

GebLX,
Channel 11 broacasts on VHF frequencies one for analog service (Ch 11 - 199.25 MHz) and the other for the HD digital (Channel 11.1 which is actually using the Ch 10 frequency - 193.25 MHz). This requires a different antenna than the one used for the other channels which broadcast on UHF frequencies (in the 500-640 MHz range for our local channels). So a standard indoor UHF HD TV antenna will probably not work well for CBS channels (Ch 11/11.1). That makes it kind of annoying because a larger antenna is needed just for that one channel. :mad:

Cheers

Yeah, bunny ears suck indoors. You literally have to have them perfect to receive the station, which sucks. Oh well, as long as Comcast keeps pumping them through the wall, and my QAM tuner doesn't die, then I'm all good. Also, any chance Colorado Springs will get more OTA digital channels? I type in other zip codes for different cities like Vegas, San Antonio, etc..and they a lot more local channels than the typical ones like NBC, ABC, Fox, etc, and was just curious if we are going to get similiar channels.

I had Comcast cable and a box when I had their expanded basic service, which includes the local channels and cable channels like FX, MTV, ESPN, etc...I cancelled them, returned the box, and been getting the local HD channels through the wall outlet. I only watch local channels anyway, so I figured I save the 60-70 bucks. I do get some of the cable channels, but no sound, guess they are encrypted.


GebLX,

If you have cancelled ALL services with Comcast, you will find that this will inevitably result in a cable tech disconnecting all signal coming to your home (if you live in an apartment wherein 'basic' cable is covered please disregard).

Presently, cable companies must pass through only the PRIMARY signal for the local broadcast stations (this means analog until shutoff 02/2009 [some locals even have waivers beyond that time]) and this is only if you are a subscriber, as such, they (Comcast) are under no real obligation to to have any unscrambled QAM digital stations. This will change in a very short period of time, and to my knowledge almost all local Comcast franchises do unscramble the locals and on occasion some others.

Regardless, if you did cancel all services a regular antenna will pick up the ATSC broadcasts, and with clear line-of-sight to Cheyenne Mountain you should get all the local ATSC +/- signal issues.


-doGlooP

doGlooP,
Good point. I was trying to be "politically correct" and not want to know how GebLX was able to get the signal off his cable if he's disconnected. There are some things we just don't need to know. ;-) Anyway, I agree, OTA is a much better way to go for local channels, especially here if you're near Cheyenne Mountain (most of the city) and have a clear line of sight shot (even if obstructed by trees/buildings). There's only one direction to point at and it makes for a simple installation. Its free and there's no hassles with the cable or satellite company.

Well I do still have high speed internet from Comcast, but nothing TV wise. So signal is still being pumped to my place, but just for internet. So your saying by 2009 my QAM tuner might be useless?

Well I do still have high speed internet from Comcast, but nothing TV wise. So signal is still being pumped to my place, but just for internet. So your saying by 2009 my QAM tuner might be useless?

GebLX,

I apologize for my wording. No, nearly ALL QAM tuners are ATSC compatible by design (sadly not always the other way around), this being said; Your QAM tuner will work fine so long as cable companies stick with mpeg2 streams over QAM & local broadcasters use mpeg2 over ATSC...

What I am saying is that unless the 'primary signal' broadcast from a local station is the digital signal, the FCC mandate for cableco's to leave the broadcast un-altered for LOCAL BROADCASTERS does not have to apply. As this is the case (the primary signal is analog), Comcast is under no obligation to send the ATSC-mpeg2 stream bit-for-bit or as ATSC pass-thru. So, when analog shutoff happens in 2009 the broadcast stations that transition to an all-digital signal and are forced to 'give back' the analog bandspace (spectrum), then a cable operator will have to comply with that extension of must-carry, must-not-alter because the 'primary' signal will be digital in nature.

Also, as far as I know about other stations picking up on digital ATSC broadcast, the next one would likely be the CW-57 (same physical broadcast location as KXRM-Fox 21, btw). most of the independent or smaller UHF guys have waivers going past the shutoff date in 2009...

-doGlooP

One good thing about the war is that it's driving down costs. For people like me who are are standing by and waiting for a winner, entry will be less painful :)

Those of you that are waiting for a winner in this war, I would say to keep doing that for now. Prices should be pretty good by the Holiday shopping season I would think.
I got a PS3 for my son this Christmas and we have rented many Bluray movies from Netflix and although the Bluray picture is very good, it did not blow me away as much as I thought it might. Now we only have a 55" HDTV and DVDs look pretty darn good on it, but I guess I expected a little bigger difference between the two. (I have heard that the difference is more pronounced for people with very large front projection setups though.)

Rob

(I have heard that the difference is more pronounced for people with very large front projection setups though.)

Rob

My opinion is it's tough to see the difference between HD and DVD on <=42" set unless you sit uncomfortably close to the screen. I have a 110" FP setup and the difference is very noticeable. DVD's now seem disappointing by comparison. When you consider the blu-ray, gaming, and planned future functionality, I think the PS3 is a good value for "cutting edge" technology.

My opinion is it's tough to see the difference between HD and DVD on <=42" set unless you sit uncomfortably close to the screen. I have a 110" FP setup and the difference is very noticeable. DVD's now seem disappointing by comparison. When you consider the blu-ray, gaming, and planned future functionality, I think the PS3 is a good value for "cutting edge" technology.

Interesting comment jlachanc. I'm thinking of getting a small format (32-37 inches) LCD since space is limited. Based on your comments it appears there's not much reason to consider Blu-Ray or HD-DVD format players in the buying equation at this time. I suppose that's particularly so given most smaller LCDs have 720p format. There are a few 32 inch LCDs with 1080p formats (like the Sharp LC32D62U but I wonder what the picture quality is like and if you'd see much difference. Is there anyone out there with a small format 1080p LCD and have any comments? Just random thoughts surfing the web on a warm 4th of July with the cat in the window watching the world go by while sniffing the breeze ...

If it helps The Sound Shop has a dual format hooked up to a small format LG display. Some where between 32 and 42 I dont remember what size but it did look good. Go check it out to see what you think.

A bit off topic but there was a news article in USA Today yesterday morning about cable company set-top box rental prices going up in response to an FCC mandate that consumers be able to buy the boxes (minus the security cards). Higher cable fees? What else is new. Hmmmm :-( Check out this http link:

"www.usatoday.com/tech/products/services/2007-07-04-cableboxes_N.htm"

Interesting comment jlachanc. I'm thinking of getting a small format (32-37 inches) LCD since space is limited. Based on your comments it appears there's not much reason to consider Blu-Ray or HD-DVD format players in the buying equation at this time..

My opinion is that at the screen size you are looking at Blu-ray/HD-DVD would not really be worth the current expense unless you like to sit < 5ft. from your TV. The human eye can only resolve so much detail from a given distance.

This article explains it all nicely (http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/) and has a good chart to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. If it were me, there is no way I'd spend the extra $ on a 1080p set at that size. Stick with 720p or even consider an Extended Definition (480p) set that will accept and down-convert an HD signal. Skip the HD-DVD/BD player until prices come down. Then, take all that money and put it into speakers and surround equipment. The audio is half the experience after all...

Of course seeing is believing. Go and check it out for yourself.

Good luck,
Jason

A bit off topic but there was a news article in USA Today yesterday morning about cable company set-top box rental prices going up in response to an FCC mandate that consumers be able to buy the boxes (minus the security cards). Higher cable fees? What else is new. Hmmmm :-( Check out this http link:

"www.usatoday.com/tech/products/services/2007-07-04-cableboxes_N.htm"
The government gets involved and the consumers have to pay more, I'm shocked :rolleyes:

Does anyone know what were the technical issues that prevented Fox 21 from broadcasting the game in HD last night? Is this a frequest occurrence with Fox? I am new to the area.

Does anyone know what were the technical issues that prevented Fox 21 from broadcasting the game in HD last night? Is this a frequest occurrence with Fox? I am new to the area.

they've had issues since monday as far as i can tell. last time this occured was ~5 weeks ago and the problem remained most of the week. so yea, every now and then fox does have issues.

unless it's cable related, not sure if OTA is working or not.

they've had issues since monday as far as i can tell. last time this occured was ~5 weeks ago and the problem remained most of the week. so yea, every now and then fox does have issues.

unless it's cable related, not sure if OTA is working or not.

Actually I was trying to watch OTA so its not just cable.

I don't think the issue on no HD for the All-Star game last night was a Fox issue. Here in Denver, the game was in HD on Fox 31 which I watched OTA. The issue must be with KXRM.

Interesting comment jlachanc. I'm thinking of getting a small format (32-37 inches) LCD since space is limited. Based on your comments it appears there's not much reason to consider Blu-Ray or HD-DVD format players in the buying equation at this time. I suppose that's particularly so given most smaller LCDs have 720p format. There are a few 32 inch LCDs with 1080p formats (like the Sharp LC32D62U but I wonder what the picture quality is like and if you'd see much difference. Is there anyone out there with a small format 1080p LCD and have any comments? Just random thoughts surfing the web on a warm 4th of July with the cat in the window watching the world go by while sniffing the breeze ...

Sat,

You will see an improvement using Blu-ray/HD-DVD vs. DVD using a screen as small as 32", however the improvement is minimal. My clients and I agree that you really start to see the improvement best at 42"+. In my home I have Blu-ray/HD-DVD hooked to a 110" screen, 52" screen and 47" screen and all benefit greatly from these new formats vs. DVD.

~Josh

HD-DVD was a big difference vs. DVD on my 65" CRT, and well worth the $299 for the Toshiba HD-A2. I'm still waiting for Blu-Ray to come down from the current $600 to $300-400 or so (Christmas 2007?) but $299 minus my Best Buy Rewards and gift cards made it a no-brainer.

I don't think the issue on no HD for the All-Star game last night was a Fox issue. Here in Denver, the game was in HD on Fox 31 which I watched OTA. The issue must be with KXRM.

yes, i meant kxrm not fox in general.

Sat,

You will see an improvement using Blu-ray/HD-DVD vs. DVD using a screen as small as 32", however the improvement is minimal. My clients and I agree that you really start to see the improvement best at 42"+. In my home I have Blu-ray/HD-DVD hooked to a 110" screen, 52" screen and 47" screen and all benefit greatly from these new formats vs. DVD.

~Josh
I just bought a PS3 for 499, cant wait for those blu-ray titles to arrive from my Blockbuster online queue.

I just bought a PS3 for 499, cant wait for those blu-ray titles to arrive from my Blockbuster online queue.

Did you get your 5 free DVDs as well?

HD-DVD was a big difference vs. DVD on my 65" CRT, and well worth the $299 for the Toshiba HD-A2. I'm still waiting for Blu-Ray to come down from the current $600 to $300-400 or so (Christmas 2007?) but $299 minus my Best Buy Rewards and gift cards made it a no-brainer.

Tallguy,

Here are some cheaper Blu-ray options for you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=874082

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=872160

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=872763

http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/BD-P1000?mv_pc=nextag

~Josh

I just bought a PS3 for 499, cant wait for those blu-ray titles to arrive from my Blockbuster online queue.

Azalo,

Remember you can rent Blu-ray discs locally at many Blockbusters as Blockbuster has now gone Blu-ray Exclusive in their stores in-terms of the format war.

I know the Blockbuster at Powers and Constitution has a nice selection of Blu-ray's to rent.

~Josh

IMO if you want Blu-ray titles, go with Netflix, I've been using them since February after cancelling Blockbuster online, they never had anything available. Occasionally I go to a local Blockbuster( Powers and Constitution ) and rent a Blu-ray if I kinda don't feel like waiting on Netflix, which I kinda miss returning a movie and getting a new one, but I can live with it.

IMO if you want Blu-ray titles, go with Netflix, I've been using them since February after cancelling Blockbuster online, they never had anything available.

I agree with this. I've had Blockbuster on-line for over a year and it has been fine, but now they never have the blu-ray titles you want immediately available. I have 8 blu-ray movies in the front of my queue, but it skips down past them since they all say "long wait". Haven't tried renting from the store yet.

So the feedback on Netflix is they have the blu-ray titles immediately?
I might be switching too...

I agree with this. I've had Blockbuster on-line for over a year and it has been fine, but now they never have the blu-ray titles you want immediately available. I have 8 blu-ray movies in the front of my queue, but it skips down past them since they all say "long wait". Haven't tried renting from the store yet.

So the feedback on Netflix is they have the blu-ray titles immediately?
I might be switching too...

Right, Netflix for me 95% of the time has the Blu-ray movie I want available now. I even came up with a little system I use if I want to be the first to get the new releases. Since they come out on Tuesday, new releases, I return my movies either Sunday or Monday, Netflix gets them on Tuesday( thanks to them being located in Denver), new releases are sent out that same day, worked everytime. I use the 3 at a time cost, works for me.

Universal, National Geographic, Cinemax, VSGOLF, A&E, and MHD are now listed with guide data. Now if they'd bring back the HDNETs, we'd be set :)

Universal, National Geographic, Cinemax, VSGOLF, A&E, and MHD are now listed with guide data. Now if they'd bring back the HDNETs, we'd be set :)

these addtions MAY sway me from moving to Dish. here in pueblo we already had mhd, vsgolf, and cinemax, but the other 3 channels are welcome in my household...

Universal, National Geographic, Cinemax, VSGOLF, A&E, and MHD are now listed with guide data. Now if they'd bring back the HDNETs, we'd be set :)

Yes!!!! More content. MHD is curently showing ESPN2.

Uni., NG., Cinimax and A&E on dish now and MHD and VS/GOLF to be added on 15 Aug 07.

Hey all,

I am out visiting the inlaws in Springs and had a couple of HD questions. I bought them a Samsung TX-R2779H (HDTV with built in HD tuner) and they have it connected to a set of Rabbit ears. They live in Security by the water tower and have pretty good reception for most of the stations, I was just wondering about some of them:

11-1 - on their TV I get a good signal but the view is bordered in either 16:9 or 4:3, in 16:9 it becomes a veiw in the middle of the screen with a 2 plus inch border all the way around. I don't think that is normal and it is the only channel it does that on.

5 - is there a digital channel for 5 or is it only 30 that sends out the digital signal

other than those issues do you guys have a DTV channel listing somewhere, I am normally on the Balt/DC board and they keep a running listing for everything (Cable/OTA/Sat/Fios) that is available in the area. I just want to make sure that they are getting everything they should be getting since I don't get out here very often.

Thanks for any assistance you guys can give.

Josh

I am halfway between CS and Denver and frequently watch CS stations for HD. I have not watched 11.1 for a few days but have not noticed anything unusual when I did. 5.1 does broadcast off Cheyenne Mountain so you should be able to receive them. There is no channel split like 5/30 analog.

I dont know of a master list but maybe someone else does

Hey all,

I am out visiting the inlaws in Springs and had a couple of HD questions. I bought them a Samsung TX-R2779H (HDTV with built in HD tuner) and they have it connected to a set of Rabbit ears. They live in Security by the water tower and have pretty good reception for most of the stations, I was just wondering about some of them:

11-1 - on their TV I get a good signal but the view is bordered in either 16:9 or 4:3, in 16:9 it becomes a veiw in the middle of the screen with a 2 plus inch border all the way around. I don't think that is normal and it is the only channel it does that on.

5 - is there a digital channel for 5 or is it only 30 that sends out the digital signal

other than those issues do you guys have a DTV channel listing somewhere, I am normally on the Balt/DC board and they keep a running listing for everything (Cable/OTA/Sat/Fios) that is available in the area. I just want to make sure that they are getting everything they should be getting since I don't get out here very often.

Thanks for any assistance you guys can give.

Josh


CBS 11-1 should be 16:9 for HD programming, and KKTV transmits their 4:3 stuff inside of left/right gray bars in a 16:9 signal the rest of the time, like news. I've never seen a border all the way around though - maybe a weird setting on your TV.

If you meant DTV for digital TV rather than DirecTV (D*), the list is pretty short but we don't have this forum set up for a continually updated first post. Here goes, with the frequencies they are transmitted on:

5-1 (42) KOAA NBC
8-1 (26) KTSC PBS
11-1 (10) KKTV CBS (note this is VHF and sometimes takes a big antenna)
13-1 (24) KRDO ABC (no 5.1 surround sound, just stereo)
21-1 (22) KXRM FOX

That's all here in our little burg. But we're kind of thankful for the 5 channels because it took forever to get them in HD.

Hey all,

11-1 - on their TV I get a good signal but the view is bordered in either 16:9 or 4:3, in 16:9 it becomes a veiw in the middle of the screen with a 2 plus inch border all the way around. I don't think that is normal and it is the only channel it does that on.

Josh

This happens any time a show that is letterbox is not shown in HD. This commonly happens when the local channels are broadcasting weather alerts during a normally HD show, but since they don't have the equipment to do their weather overlay in HD everything is downrezzed to SD. You will see this on other channels depending on their policy. Some stations will stretch SD content to fill the screen. I hate this as it distorts the picture. If a station mantains the aspect ratio as it should, then you will see bars on all around the picture when letterbox programming is shown not in HD. I usually solve this by using the Zoom button on my TV.

-Mike

Anyone else having trouble receiving KTSC/PBS 8-1 over the air? Mine was jerky last night and can't lock on to a picture this morning, but the signal strength seems normal and I haven't changed anything that would affect this recently. Maybe they are having trouble or are changing something, I don't know.

Anyone else having trouble receiving KTSC/PBS 8-1 over the air?

yep, say issues here on comcast...

TallGuy, ryttingm, longrider,

Thanks for the info, I will see what I can do to get 5.1 in, my father inlaw said that he saw it recently so maybe I lost it when I did a channel scan when I got here. I will play with the ears and see what happens, and thanks for the HD info, my TV back home stretches the content to fit the screen. Those bars drive me nuts!! Back home I have D* and an HR10-250 so it is a bit of a shock when I come out to visit :-)

Thanks
Josh

Hello,
I have a homebrew DVR and noticed today that KTSC in Vista media center wasn't tuning in correctly. In beyondTV it tunes in after a long delay. So when messing around with the utility that came with the HDHomerun tuner it tunes in fine, however the PSIP data is missing. Instead of having the identifier 8.1 KTSC-DT it just has 0.0 (No Data) I suspect this may be the root of my problems.

Was wondering if anyone else has noticed missing PSIP data on KTSC?

TallGuy, ryttingm, longrider,

Thanks for the info, I will see what I can do to get 5.1 in, my father inlaw said that he saw it recently so maybe I lost it when I did a channel scan when I got here. I will play with the ears and see what happens, and thanks for the HD info, my TV back home stretches the content to fit the screen. Those bars drive me nuts!! Back home I have D* and an HR10-250 so it is a bit of a shock when I come out to visit :-)

Thanks
Josh
To me, bars on the sides are better than stretching to make people look 33% fatter than they really are, but to each his own. Anyway, 5-1 and 11-1 are probably impossible to stretch since they are transmitting the bars during SD programming, like ESPN does.

What happened to PBS/8-1 OTA? I have a black screen with guide data on my S3. I looked around and PBS is on 26-3, good sound and picture, but no guide data. I have missed Soundstage twice and the Tivo says it did not record because there is no signal (which is true).

Anyone else notice this?

Universal, National Geographic, Cinemax, VSGOLF, A&E, and MHD are now listed with guide data. Now if they'd bring back the HDNETs, we'd be set :)

Are these channels actually working for you? They're listed on my Moxi screen but none of them are actually active. I'm in the Peterson and N. Carefree area.

Also, I was told by a Comcast rep at Best Buy (they were doing a promo there) that since they have taken over for Adelphia that they have new DVR's to replace the ones us former Adelphia customers had and that I should trade mine in. This was a few months ago. I have a Motorola Moxi 9012. When I asked what kind of boxes they were, what software it was using, and what size the hard drive it had he didn't have an answer... for anything....hmmmm. What boxes do you folks have? Am I missing out on something?

Yeah, my HD tuners are 1 for 3 in actually being able to tune the KTSC/PBS picture in. It is transmitting shows - my PC tuner can receive it - but the D* HR10 and HR20 can't. I left a message for the KTSC engineer I've talked to before, just to see if he was aware. Don't know if he's around on a Friday afternoon, but he'll get the word at some point. He was one of the TV guys I used to talk to back 1-2 years ago who did care what the viewers were getting in HD (unlike KRDO in particular). We'll have to see if it's fixed next week.

I have 3 tuners with three different results with KTSC. My Dish Network 622 won't tune it in, shows a strong signal but won't lock on it. My Dish Network 811 will tune it but lists it as channel 26-01 instead of the 8-01 that it was listed at before. The built in tuner of my SXRD tunes it in correctly.

The channel mapping data seems to be corrupt and different tuners handle it differently.

Thanks, Tallguy, for letting them know.

Roy

What happened to PBS/8-1 OTA? I have a black screen with guide data on my S3. I looked around and PBS is on 26-3, good sound and picture, but no guide data. I have missed Soundstage twice and the Tivo says it did not record because there is no signal (which is true).

Anyone else notice this?
Yep, It has been dead for at least a couple of days on my D* H20. Didn't want you to think you were the only one :cool:

I wonder if there is something in PBS's data that is corrupt? A couple months ago 6-1 out of Denver was doing the same thing. 6-1 had nothing but 18-1 did and there was a 18-2 thru about 18-12 all with nothing. This sounds very similar.

Are these channels actually working for you? They're listed on my Moxi screen but none of them are actually active. I'm in the Peterson and N. Carefree area.

Also, I was told by a Comcast rep at Best Buy (they were doing a promo there) that since they have taken over for Adelphia that they have new DVR's to replace the ones us former Adelphia customers had and that I should trade mine in. This was a few months ago. I have a Motorola Moxi 9012. When I asked what kind of boxes they were, what software it was using, and what size the hard drive it had he didn't have an answer... for anything....hmmmm. What boxes do you folks have? Am I missing out on something?

No signal yet, but they should be fully active soon (August 15th according to RUSTAMUST).

Comcast is replacing the 9012s with 6412s (or 6416s if you're lucky). They are 120 gb boxes currently running the old iGuide software. The Phase IIIs have HDMI and run cooler than the 9012s. They don't have internal cable modems like the 9012s do, so they aren't as sensitive to signal strength.

I've heard Comcast won't roll out the 4.1 software for MOXI (faster menus + USB HDD support), so you might as well trade it in for the 6412. The iGuide interface is ancient and has plenty of issues, but Comcast is about to start testing TiVO software for the box (for a fee of course). We probably won't see it until next year though. If you really like your 9012 and the 80 gb drive is plenty for you, you could always hold onto it until the TiVO software makes it to the Springs.

What happened to PBS/8-1 OTA? I have a black screen with guide data on my S3. I looked around and PBS is on 26-3, good sound and picture, but no guide data. I have missed Soundstage twice and the Tivo says it did not record because there is no signal (which is true).

Anyone else notice this?

I just got back from vacation and noticed 8.1 was blank, so I ran the autoprogram on my HDTV and found new channels at 26.3, 26.4 and 26.11 of which only 26.3 had a picture. This appears to be KTSC as the programs match the Wyoming PBS schedule that KTSC has been using. At least the signal/picture is still the best of any of the locals.

No signal yet, but they should be fully active soon (August 15th according to RUSTAMUST).

Comcast is replacing the 9012s with 6412s (or 6416s if you're lucky). They are 120 gb boxes currently running the old iGuide software. The Phase IIIs have HDMI and run cooler than the 9012s. They don't have internal cable modems like the 9012s do, so they aren't as sensitive to signal strength.

I've heard Comcast won't roll out the 4.1 software for MOXI (faster menus + USB HDD support), so you might as well trade it in for the 6412. The iGuide interface is ancient and has plenty of issues, but Comcast is about to start testing TiVO software for the box (for a fee of course). We probably won't see it until next year though. If you really like your 9012 and the 80 gb drive is plenty for you, you could always hold onto it until the TiVO software makes it to the Springs.

Thanks RockyMountainD, that's some good info on what Comcast is up to. Unfortunately, I was hoping to see 4.1 out here sometime while we were waiting for the TiVO software - I guess that may not be happening. We get along fine with our current box which so far isn't giving us any problems (knock on wood).
I'd hate to trade it in and disrupt the harmony I currently enjoy with the "DVR gods" I guess we'll see how it goes.

Thanks again.

I just got back from vacation and noticed 8.1 was blank, so I ran the autoprogram on my HDTV and found new channels at 26.3, 26.4 and 26.11 of which only 26.3 had a picture. This appears to be KTSC as the programs match the Wyoming PBS schedule that KTSC has been using. At least the signal/picture is still the best of any of the locals.
I think they have been fooling around with their PSIP and have their mapping screwed up. It has happened before but not for this long. On my H20 box I get a mettering level of 90 on 8-1, so there is a carrier there but apparently no A/V.

Update: I just re-scanned OTA Channels with my H20 and 8-1 was found at 26-20. :eek:

I've heard Comcast won't roll out the 4.1 software for MOXI (faster menus + USB HDD support), so you might as well trade it in for the 6412.

That's a real bummer; I was hoping to at least get 4.1 for the Moxi. I'm sick of the limited space on the HDD.

Anyone have any luck the Tivo Series 3 with Comcast in Colo Spgs?

The British Golf open is not being shown in HD by ABC but rather in 16x9 SD widescreen according to posts in the programming section. Here on KRDO we are getting a blurry, horrible looking 4x3 SD picture. Does anybody know why KRDO can not show us the ABC feed in the 16x9 SD widescreen format?

The British Golf open is not being shown in HD by ABC but rather in 16x9 SD widescreen according to posts in the programming section. Here on KRDO we are getting a blurry, horrible looking 4x3 SD picture. Does anybody know why KRDO can not show us the ABC feed in the 16x9 SD widescreen format?KRDO probably has some week-end intern working at the switch, so no WS or HD. It would probably not be any better in SD WS. Their ABC network SD signals are the absolute worst in the Springs whether analog or digital. It is currently a 720p pillar boxed signal scaled up from their dismal 480i, :eek: Yuk.

What happened to PBS/8-1 OTA? I have a black screen with guide data on my S3. I looked around and PBS is on 26-3, good sound and picture, but no guide data. I have missed Soundstage twice and the Tivo says it did not record because there is no signal (which is true).

Anyone else notice this?

My theory is that they PSIP data is messed up. I have a HDHomerun steup and it will tune in VLC, and in BeyondTV after a HUGE delay. However won't tune in Media Center which is known not to tune if there is not PSIP data available or if it is incorrect.

I sent a message to them when I first noticed via their webpage ... but TallGuy said he called, I am sure that will be far more effective. :)

Are these channels actually working for you? They're listed on my Moxi screen but none of them are actually active. I'm in the Peterson and N. Carefree area.

Not working here in Cottonwood area. I have the Moto 6412. Was told by Comcast that select areas of town are having issues and they are aware of it and are working on it. Sounds like it is not specifc to the hardware.

Will this one will take weeks or months? I have little faith in these guys. :rolleyes:

And was dissappointed to see that NFL Network HD was not one that was added. We will need that come November and I dont see Comcast adding more HD channels for at least another year at the rate they are going

all the earlier listed new comcast channels are working here in pueblo, lucky us...

Got a call back from KTSC's engineer - they have been working on a project to change from "static PSIP information" to "dynamic" - not sure I understood this all but it should include more channel information about 8-1 and 8-2 in the stream, program guide info, 'datacasting', etc. They already knew that it hasn't worked the way they wanted it to, and some of their test boxes display their HD OTA signal fine and some of theirs don't. They're waiting on more test equipment to help figure it out. It sounded like it's been frustrating to them, but they are not intending to leave it the way it is.

Also he said that they are planning to change the mix of HD programming to something out of the Denver PBS station rather than the national PBS feed. I asked if that would be a mix of HD and SD and he said yes. I stated how most people that spend a few thousand on an HD setup will try not to watch any SD, but I said then again, a lot of the HD programs on KTSC now are repeated quite a lot.

Got a call back from KTSC's engineer - they have been working on a project to change from "static PSIP information" to "dynamic" -......


Thanks for posting the update, good to know. Here is hoping it isn't gone for long, I miss Nova. LOL

KRDO probably has some week-end intern working at the switch, so no WS or HD. It would probably not be any better in SD WS. Their ABC network SD signals are the absolute worst in the Springs whether analog or digital. It is currently a 720p pillar boxed signal scaled up from their dismal 480i, :eek: Yuk.


The highlights on Sportcenter sure looked HD to me. If that was 16x9 SD, you could have fooled me.

Would have been nice to watch either way since KRDO's SD signal is just pure JUNK! :mad:

I plugged in my unsub'd HR10-250 and 8-1 came in clear, pic and sounds are fine, but I get no guide data because the box is unsub'd. I get blank picture on my S3 and RCA DTC100. I wonder why the HR10 works and not the other boxes.

they are planning to change the mix of HD programming to something out of the Denver PBS station rather than the national PBS feed.

Hmmm, that kinda sux. I was really liking the national PBS feed. If I want SD PBS I go to the NTSC channel 8. I suggest they don't muck with it and water down the best HD channel in town.

Thanks for the update TG. I hope it gets back soon. I tire of programming manual recordings on my S3.

I have a Panasonic that buzzes at 7100 feet (it's rated to 7500 and bought it when living at a much lower elevation). It's not super loud and you can only hear it when the tv is on mute, but it'still noticeable from 10 feet away on mute.

Anyone here have a plasma that doesn't buzz? I purchased the "altitude rated" Pioneer 6070 and it has a very annoying buzz. It's going back. Does anyone have or know of one that doesn't?

Regards,

Bob

I have searched the forums looking for info on high-elevation buzz and haven't heard from many people who have actually experienced it. I am currently in the market for a 50" plasma. I don't live at high elevation, but I hope to move to Woodland Park within the next 2 years and plan to use the same plasma for at least a few years after that. I am hoping to get an idea of how loud and annoying the high-elevation buzz is for those who have experienced it. Do you only hear it when the set is turned on? Can you hear it from 10 feet away with the volume at low-to-normal levels?

Thanks!

My parents have Comcast and I have been trying to convince them to get an SD DVR for their family room and an HD DVR for their 65" HD set in the basement for years. (They know how happy we have been over the last 5 years with our SD & HD TiVos through DirecTV.)

So I thought if I could tell them the exact cost per month (hopefully it's not too bad), then maybe they would consider upgrading.

So if someone could tell me the following costs I would sure appreciate it:

1) HD box, NON-DVR monthly cost (they already have this so this cost would be removed);
2) SD DVR monthly cost; and
3) HD DVR monthly cost.

Thanks in advance,
Rob

HD service is $9.99 per month - this is reported to not increase when they add all the alleged new channels in September
+
DVR service is $5.99 per account (not per receiver)
+
Every receiver after 1 is $4.99 per receiver

Deals on the hardware vary, but long-time good customers can get good deals. The monthly service cost should never be the issue - it's well worth it to have an HD-DVR for the above prices...

My parents have Comcast and I have been trying to convince them to get an SD DVR for their family room and an HD DVR for their 65" HD set in the basement for years. (They know how happy we have been over the last 5 years with our SD & HD TiVos through DirecTV.)

So I thought if I could tell them the exact cost per month (hopefully it's not too bad), then maybe they would consider upgrading.

So if someone could tell me the following costs I would sure appreciate it:

1) HD box, NON-DVR monthly cost (they already have this so this cost would be removed);
2) SD DVR monthly cost; and
3) HD DVR monthly cost.

Thanks in advance,
Rob

I pay an additional $11.95/month for HD service w/DVR (Digital service includes the $6.95 fee for one STB). My 2nd DVR w/HD service is $18.90 ($11.95 + $6.95).

Not sure what the fee is for DVR w/o HD service. You might want to call them and ask. I'm pretty sure they don't have a "non-HD" DVR box; I think the Moto 6412 is the only DVR they supply.

Does anyone know what they charge just for cable Cards to use with an S3? I doubt I'd sign up, just curious.

8-1 is back on. Pic and sound are showing on my S3 :)

My parents have Comcast and I have been trying to convince them to get an SD DVR for their family room and an HD DVR for their 65" HD set in the basement for years. (They know how happy we have been over the last 5 years with our SD & HD TiVos through DirecTV.)

So I thought if I could tell them the exact cost per month (hopefully it's not too bad), then maybe they would consider upgrading.

So if someone could tell me the following costs I would sure appreciate it:

1) HD box, NON-DVR monthly cost (they already have this so this cost would be removed);
2) SD DVR monthly cost; and
3) HD DVR monthly cost.

Thanks in advance,
Rob

If you're looking to also purchase the boxes, I've got an HR10-250 ($150) as well as a DVR40 ($30) I need to sell. (I just switched to Dish)

If you're looking to also purchase the boxes, I've got an HR10-250 ($150) as well as a DVR40 ($30) I need to sell. (I just switched to Dish)
Sounds like radckh's parents are using Comcast, so I don't think your D* HW is relevant here.

Sorry Rob, I read your post way too fast and thought you were asking for DirecTV pricing...

Does anyone know what they charge just for cable Cards to use with an S3? I doubt I'd sign up, just curious.
Now that Tivo came out with a cheaper HD box for cable and cablecards, it is a better option. I could handle the $299 price for the Tivo brand - I just wish you didn't have to pay the subscription stuff on top of that.

8-1 is back on. Pic and sound are showing on my S3 :)
My D* HD-TiVo still can't find 8-1...

Now that Tivo came out with a cheaper HD box for cable and cablecards, it is a better option. I could handle the $299 price for the Tivo brand - I just wish you didn't have to pay the subscription stuff on top of that.
Yeah, I hear ya. I just prepaid for 3 yrs, which comes to 8.31/mo, so not much more than 5.99 from D*.

Interesting about your HR10/8-1 - they must still be messing with things.

I've had problems lately with my D* DVR. First, it erased everything that I had recorded on it from the past. Now, it will record programs for me, but only keep it for a day and then delete it. Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong with my DVR? Has anyone else had this type of problem?

What model DVR do you have? Real Tivo UI or D*/NDS?

If you have DirecTivo or HDTivo visit tivocommunity.com
if you have an R15 or the D* HD DVR (model 700 something?) visit DBSTalk.com for some tips.

My D* HD-TiVo still can't find 8-1...

I have the same issue.... no 8-1 on my Tivo

I've had problems lately with my D* DVR. First, it erased everything that I had recorded on it from the past. Now, it will record programs for me, but only keep it for a day and then delete it. Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong with my DVR? Has anyone else had this type of problem?


I'm sorry....I meant to put E*. I have Dish, not Direct. So, my problem is with my Dish DVR.

I can't help you out on E* DVRs. Try to post some questions on DBStalk.com.

A quick question: I often see the abbreviation D* and E*. Is this shorthand notation for DirecTV and Echostar (DishTV)? If so, is there a reason they are used (i.e. to avoid trademark/patent infringement) or just for convenience. Just wondering. Thanks in advance for any info.

A quick question: I often see the abbreviation D* and E*. Is this shorthand notation for DirecTV and Echostar (DishTV)? If so, is there a reason they are used (i.e. to avoid trademark/patent infringement) or just for convenience. Just wondering. Thanks in advance for any info.
It's just for faster typing on this board, I think.

Also, no love from the HR20 either tuning in PBS 8-1.

I've had problems lately with my D* DVR. First, it erased everything that I had recorded on it from the past. Now, it will record programs for me, but only keep it for a day and then delete it. Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong with my DVR? Has anyone else had this type of problem?
I have the non-HD E* DVR and have had to get 2 replacements in the past 5 years. One time it deleted all my shows and would not record at all; if I would even pause live TV, the whole thing would lock up. The other time it acted more like yours and still worked to some extent. Both times I called customer service, and they had me run it through some diagnostic. It failed the test, so they sent me a replacement. They tried to charge me a $20 to $30 replacement fee, but both times I was able to talk my way out of it. Also, be sure to send your old one back to them within 90 days, or they'll put a fat fee on your bill.

8-1 is back on. Pic and sound are showing on my S3 :)

Still isn't working for me on a HDHomeRun/MCE.

PSIP is still jacked up, shows 0.0 (No Data).

Still isn't working for me on a HDHomeRun/MCE.

PSIP is still jacked up, shows 0.0 (No Data).
I'm in temporary quarters in Eastern WP, and I have my 4228 sitting on a chair pointing thru a sliding glass door. I don't have LOS. KTSC is coming in fine for me as 26.1.

I'm also receiving digital signals from KOAA, KRDO & KXRM. However, KKTV(both analog & digital) are nowhere to be found. What's up with that? I do realize that KKTV is broadcasting on VHF-10, but the 4228 can usually pick up high VHF frequencies fairly well. Anybody else from WP out there, and if so what are your experiences with KKTV?
....jc

Phillips HDTV Plasma with internal tuner. Searched for new digital channels.. (thanks for those that posted some HD..) For those looking here is what I found

HD
83.11 Flixw
106.1 PBS
106.2 ABC
107.1 CBS
107.2 Fox
108.1 NBC


My full Digitial Channels

82.4 News11 weather
82.6?? TVG (sports)

89.1 church
89.2 Fox21
89.3 ch13 ABC
89.4 WGN (sportsL
89.6 ION
89.9 CH2 (paid programming)
89.11 PBS


100.5 Disney
101.1 Animal Planet
101.2 CNN
101.2 CNN Headline
101.5 CSPAN
101.6 CPSAN2
101.7 HSN
101.8 QVC
101.10 Country Music

106.1 PBS
106.2 ABC
107.1 CBS
107.2 Fox
108.1 NBC 5/30

111.1 BET?
111.2 MTV
111.3 USA
111.4 Discovery
111.5 AMC
111.6 TLC
111.7 Nick
111.8 SCI-FI
111.9 vh1
111.10 Jetix??
112.1 A&E
112.2 Court TV
112.3 CSBsports
112.4 oh
112.5 Comedy central
112.6 E
112.7 ESPN2
112.8 History
112.9 HGVT
112.10 Lifetime
116.13 Turner Classic Movies
116.15 CET Sports
117.14 WE
117.15-?? Music

Re: PBS/8-1 Sat. 7-28 @ 7 PM

I get a good signal on 3/4 HD tuners

Tivo S3 - OK
HR10-250 - OK
Vizio 42" LCD ATSC tuner - OK
RCA DTC100 - weak signal

I use an Antenna's Direct DB4 and mast preamp and live off Baptist Rd in Foxrun

All,
Just was wondering if there were any recommendations on OTA hardware/systems dealers in Colorado Springs. I'd be interested to know if there are any outfits that really know their stuff about OTA digital broadcast and how to set up a home system that takes advantage of OTA digital transmissions. Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions.
Cheers.

Re: PBS/8-1 Sat. 7-28 @ 7 PM

I get a good signal on 3/4 HD tuners

Tivo S3 - OK
HR10-250 - OK
Vizio 42" LCD ATSC tuner - OK
RCA DTC100 - weak signal

I use an Antenna's Direct DB4 and mast preamp and live off Baptist Rd in Foxrun
My signal is fine - receiving 26-27 db on my PC's HD tuner with a picture on 8-1, but my HR10 and HR20 still won't tune it in. Very strange that the still-bad-PSIP info is accepted by your HR10 and not by my HR10...?

TG - full disclosure on my HR10-250. It is not sub'd and I do not have it on 24x7. I also don't have sat cables plugged into it, only OTA. So my guess is my guide data is perhaps OOD. Unfortunately I cannot plug it into the Sat and fully test it right now. I am remodeling mt HT and my basement is a mess.

I'm in temporary quarters in Eastern WP, and I have my 4228 sitting on a chair pointing thru a sliding glass door. I don't have LOS. KTSC is coming in fine for me as 26.1.

I'm also receiving digital signals from KOAA, KRDO & KXRM. However, KKTV(both analog & digital) are nowhere to be found. What's up with that? I do realize that KKTV is broadcasting on VHF-10, but the 4228 can usually pick up high VHF frequencies fairly well. Anybody else from WP out there, and if so what are your experiences with KKTV?
....jc

I had the same problem with KKTV at first, being down on 10 in that VHF range it just didn't want to come in even though the other four had strong signals. I wound up getting myself this: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765 It not only increased by signal strength on the existing stations but pulled in KKTV quite well.

Also noticed that PBS is back today 8.1 physical 26 with working PSIP data, so even the tuners that require accurate PSIP should be able to get it now.

TG - full disclosure on my HR10-250. It is not sub'd and I do not have it on 24x7. I also don't have sat cables plugged into it, only OTA. So my guess is my guide data is perhaps OOD. Unfortunately I cannot plug it into the Sat and fully test it right now. I am remodeling mt HT and my basement is a mess.
I knew you were offline from D* but it still didn't make any sense to me that your HR10 could read the OTA signal with the weird PSIP info that mine couldn't read. Shouldn't have anything to do with guide data from D*.

In any case, as of tonight, both my HR10 and HR20 can tune in PBS 8-1 tonight, so it appears they figured out their PSIP mystery!

Anyone getting the new HD channels on Comcast yet? Springs TVTalk says they're supposed to be live as of Monday, and someone on that blog commented that they're working for him. Me, all I'm getting is ESPN HD being played on MHD, and a bunch of "you are not subscribed" messages on the other channels...

I am getting the same thing. I was told it was an area wide issue (live near Cottonwood) about 1 week ago. I called again last night and was now told it will be active Aug 1 (tomorrow!! :) )

It's 1 Aug at 1000 and the channels are still down on the east side of town.

2 Aug @ 0920, looks like the channels are coming to life. I've got all the new ones playing. They've screwed up the regular HD channels though. Some are dead and MTV is playing on TNT, BET is on ESPN2 (yikes!) MHD is playing on ESPN, ESPN is on 721, some Christian channel is on 713, 711 is dead, Fox is on 708 (ahh the irony of Fox on PBS) and 705 and 701 are dead. NICE JOB Comcast!!!! Nice smooth rollout.

2 Aug @ 0920, looks like the channels are coming to life. I've got all the new ones playing. They've screwed up the regular HD channels though. Some are dead and MTV is playing on TNT, BET is on ESPN2 (yikes!) MHD is playing on ESPN, ESPN is on 721, some Christian channel is on 713, 711 is dead, Fox is on 708 (ahh the irony of Fox on PBS) and 705 and 701 are dead. NICE JOB Comcast!!!! Nice smooth rollout.

Wow, ok, at first I thought it was just me. Cool, well hopefully they will get all this straighten out soon, or they will be getting a lot of phone calls.

Oh and the Weather channel is on Showtime. Not that I don't want the Weather channel to be in HD, I for one look forward to that day.

@1205 all is well and functioning as advertised in Comcast land. All channels working and on their proper channel numbers.

As of last night none of the new HD channels were working on the East side of town - Peterson and Carefree. Although I never had a problem with any of the channels getting mixed up either so I guess I wasn't affected either way.

Here's hoping that our local Comcast friends decide we are one of the "select" cities and add this one soon...

---

Washington, D.C. (August 1, 2007) -- Comcast has added the HD version of the NFL Network to its high-def lineup in select cities.

The channel, which is owned by the National Football League, airs eight regular season games in high-def (and standard def) during the second half of the season.

This season, it will air 34 of 52 pre-season games in high-def, starting with this Sunday night's Hall of Fame game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the New Orleans Saints at 8 p.m. ET.

New channels up and running here. I recall them telling me last Dec that we should be getting new HD channels very soon. HA!

Not that it means anything but I voiced some complaints to Comcast in the choice of HD channels, specifically requesting NFL Network HD.

By the way, loved the flyer I got in the mail and that informed me I have now over 200 HD channels from Comcast.

8-1 is back on the air now but I have no idea what they are broadcasting! The guide shows the PBS network stuff we were getting but it’s not! It isn’t the channel 8 analog stuff either. It seems to be a mix and some added stuff as well. Real crap if you ask me. Anybody have an idea what’s going on at KTSC?

By the way, loved the flyer I got in the mail and that informed me I have now over 200 HD channels from Comcast.
Actually, it says over 200 HD programs, not 200 HD channels.

What is the most accurate list of HD QAM channels?

Comcast CS needs to get with program like they did in Monument!

What is the most accurate list of HD QAM channels?

Comcast CS needs to get with program like they did in Monument!

tboult scanned on 7/28 and listed the results in post 4963 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11153163&&#post11153163)

I am looking for the most recent scan of Colorado Springs...

Are the Qam channels the same for Monument and Colorado Springs?

If so then I am set!

Thanks for your help!

Monument and Colorado Springs get the same Comcast channels.

8-1 is back on the air now but I have no idea what they are broadcasting! The guide shows the PBS network stuff we were getting but it’s not! It isn’t the channel 8 analog stuff either. It seems to be a mix and some added stuff as well. Real crap if you ask me. Anybody have an idea what’s going on at KTSC?

Yeah whats up with guide data/PSIP? I tried to tivo The supreme court documentary and got Teletubies. :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

well, the day has come to pass... the pure national HD feed from KTSC is no more. as earlier reported, it seems to be a mix of analog/digital from here on out. too bad.

the guide data is accurate though comcast however.

well, the day has come to pass... the pure national HD feed from KTSC is no more.

Why in the world did they screw up a good thing. Even with the frequent repeats of the natonal PBS-HD, I really found a lot of good programming and could always rely on a good HD picture. We also had analog ch 8 for other choices.

What a sad day indeed. :(

Oh and the guide data on my S3 is incorrect. I expect it will take Tribune/Tivo a while to get the right info.

I feel the pain over our local PBS station programming. I'm not sure who is running RMPBS programming department but you wonder sometimes. The constant begging, the program decisions, etc drive me nuts. Compared with other PBS stations around the country it can be pretty sad. For example, if you had a fund raiser (of which they seem to have every couple of months), wouldn't you have a couple of "blockbuster" programs in there to attract people instead of "Members Favorites", art auctions, or other equally obscure programs with little possibility of getting new members? How many Antiques Roadshows do we have to see? I'm reminded of a computer manufacturer CEO's statement made at a recent meeting: "I want to grow our way to profitability through increased sales, not shrink to it by cutting costs. This requires work, investment in products and customer service, innovation, and represents a path with greater risk".

I can recall the golden age when marquis shows like Masterpiece Theatre, Mystery, The American Experience, Great Performances, Nova, and others were on regularly. Granted cuts in Federal funding to CPB haven't helped. That being said, why do they have the few remaining major PBS network shows on at obscure times, or not at all? Several years ago they chose not to show all the episodes Mystery series like other stations (I think it was a Foyles War). I called RMBPS and informed of them of my displeasure and basically got the brush off. Give me the days when Channel 8 was associated with USC and not RMPBS.

Several years ago I was at a training class and there was a guy from PBS Network. He mentioned several things that I found interesting. Apparently the PBS network is a very loose confederation of stations unlike commercial models ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. So stations are pretty much free to do their own thing. There are no requirements to "toe the PBS line" if you will. He also said the president at that time was into "politically correct" programming and gutted some of their major programming. Finally, he indicated it is possible to receive the PBS national feed with your own satellite equipment. Its on a Ku-Band transponder so the antenna diameter is in the 1.2 m class size. Electronics are fairly reasonable in cost too. The only thing is getting the decryption algorithm installed. That might or might not be possible. Apparently PBS does not have any monthly subscription fee. Usually this service is made available to schools and universities. Can private individuals get it? I don't know. Might be worth a look see. I've certainly been tempted at times. I'd even be willing to pay a subscription fee.

OK. Off my soapbox. Just had to vent a little frustration over our local PBS operations beyond the technical things associated with 8.1 service. My appologies in advance if this note offended anyone or is considered inappropriate for this forum.

All,

I realize this is not really "local" HDTV related, but I need some advice and recommendations from the readers of this thread.

Last Thursday I had my 3LNB DirecTV dish replaced with the new 5LNB (plus new WB68 multiswitch), along with an installation of the HR20 HD DVR. The DirecTV installer (from Ironwood) did what I thought at the time was an excellent job. I did not go up on the roof to personally inspect the dish and switch installation.

Saturday afternoon I had a lightning strike on or very near to the satellite dish. Lost the new multiswitch, lost a SD DirecTivo, lost a DSL modem plus several phones and DSL filters. Fortunately, my new HR20 and older HR10 seemed to have survived (not 100% sure yet). I lost a video input on one SD TV, and lost a component input and an HDMI input on my Sony KDS50A2000 rear projector.

This morning I went up on the roof and found that the installer did not connect the existing grounding system to the new dish or multiswitch. I called DirecTV to ask them to send me a new multiswitch, and to find out where I submit my damage claims due to the faulty installation. First, I was told that DirecTV does not warrantee the multiswitch. If I want it replaced I have to go buy it myself. Second, the damage claim will require "professional estimates" for repair cost.

Please give me some recommendations for where I can get professional estimates to fix a several year old Sanyo SD TV, and a six month old Sony LCOS RPTV.

Thanks.

Actually, it says over 200 HD programs, not 200 HD channels.


Ok, you are right. But,... when did we start counting by the number of programs? What they truly mean is the number of unique HD feeds and count each HD On Demand movie/content plus the HD channels to get up to 200. Yet they list it as "200 HD programs."

I can sit here and, in one 24hr period, probably choose from 500+ unique HD programs on all HD channels combined while completely ignoring the HD On Demand. This is nothing more than a lame and deceptive marketing tactic to try to look better than the competition. All you end up with is a confused consumer base thinking there is a lot more out there when there really isnt.

They are trying to make up for the fact that they dont have a network with enough bandwidth to pipe in numerous HD channels. And more importantly, they likely wont for some time. :mad:

All,

I realize this is not really "local" HDTV related, but I need some advice and recommendations from the readers of this thread.

Last Thursday I had my 3LNB DirecTV dish replaced with the new 5LNB (plus new WB68 multiswitch), along with an installation of the HR20 HD DVR. The DirecTV installer (from Ironwood) did what I thought at the time was an excellent job. I did not go up on the roof to personally inspect the dish and switch installation.

Saturday afternoon I had a lightning strike on or very near to the satellite dish. Lost the new multiswitch, lost a SD DirecTivo, lost a DSL modem plus several phones and DSL filters. Fortunately, my new HR20 and older HR10 seemed to have survived (not 100% sure yet). I lost a video input on one SD TV, and lost a component input and an HDMI input on my Sony KDS50A2000 rear projector.

This morning I went up on the roof and found that the installer did not connect the existing grounding system to the new dish or multiswitch. I called DirecTV to ask them to send me a new multiswitch, and to find out where I submit my damage claims due to the faulty installation. First, I was told that DirecTV does not warrantee the multiswitch. If I want it replaced I have to go buy it myself. Second, the damage claim will require "professional estimates" for repair cost.

Please give me some recommendations for where I can get professional estimates to fix a several year old Sanyo SD TV, and a six month old Sony LCOS RPTV.

Thanks.Bummer! :( I would get in contact with your homeowner’s insurance carrier and let them sort it out for you. Looks like Ironwood is the negligent party for most of it but you may have had a multiple entry strike including your phone and power lines.

The program guide for KTSC 8-1 now appears correct for content on my D* H20 receiver. From what I see their general programming schedule is as follows;

6:00am to Noon is "Kiddie TV" same as the analog channel 8 in 480i
Noon to 6:00pm is a Travel/DIY type feed in 480i
6:00pm to Midnight is LB and HD PBS feed in 1080i
Midnight to 6:00am is a Travel/DIY type feed in 480i

I will miss the PBS national feed even with the numerous repeats :( but this was to be expected, at least we will get some HD in prime time.

Have you noticed that KTSC is multicasting. On channel 8-2 they have V-Me, a Spanish language public broadcasting network in SD. Their web site is http://v-me.tv/

We need to monitor the quality of 8-1.

Roy

6:00am to Noon is "Kiddie TV" same as the analog channel 8 in 480i
Noon to 6:00pm is a Travel/DIY type feed in 480i
6:00pm to Midnight is LB and HD PBS feed in 1080i
Midnight to 6:00am is a Travel/DIY type feed in 480i

Looks like PBS runs HD from 6 pm - midnight, but it's really 6-9PM and then they just repeat it from 9-midnight. So effectively we get a whopping 3 hours of HD per day from PBS now. What a rip..... who do I write to officially complain about this mess? :( :( :(

Looks like PBS runs HD from 6 pm - midnight, but it's really 6-9PM and then they just repeat it from 9-midnight. So effectively we get a whopping 3 hours of HD per day from PBS now. What a rip..... who do I write to officially complain about this mess? :( :( :(

KTSC-TV/DT 8
2200 Bonforte Blvd.
Pueblo, CO 81001
719-543-8800

customer_support@ktsc.pbs.org

From Andy's blog (http://springstvtalk.blogspot.com/2006/12/ktsc-goes-hd.html).

Looks like PBS runs HD from 6 pm - midnight, but it's really 6-9PM and then they just repeat it from 9-midnight. So effectively we get a whopping 3 hours of HD per day from PBS now. What a rip..... who do I write to officially complain about this mess? :( :( :(And some of it is not even HD, just SD scaled up to 16:9 @ 1080i, identified as [LB] in the guide :eek: Another step backwards for COS HD broadcasting!

KTSC-TV/DT 8
2200 Bonforte Blvd.
Pueblo, CO 81001
719-543-8800

customer_support@ktsc.pbs.org

From Andy's blog (http://springstvtalk.blogspot.com/2006/12/ktsc-goes-hd.html).

thanks :) - Letter sent to express my disappointment with the limited HD content on PBS.

Too bad it bounced back with ....
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: DNS Error: Domain name not found

I resent the letter here...
http://www.rmpbs.org/contact/

I also found this....

Share your views with the PBS Ombudsman, Michael Getler.

http://www.pbs.org/ombudsman/

although it appears to not be RMPBS specific.







3 whole hours of HD programming..... here's Wed evening's schedule where 9-12 = 6-9 PM. Wow, don't hurt yourself PBS trying to get us some quality HD programs. :mad:

6:00 p.m. History Detectives
Grace Kelly Automobile/Illicit P.O.W. Photos/Myste

7:00 p.m. Independent Lens
Revolucion: Five Visions

8:00 p.m. At Close Range With National Geographic

9:00 p.m. History Detectives
Grace Kelly Automobile/Illicit P.O.W. Photos/Myste

10:00 p.m. Independent Lens
Revolucion: Five Visions

11:00 p.m. At Close Range With National Geographic

Another step backwards for COS HD broadcasting!

I think TallGuy should change his sig to reflect PBS as 0.125 on his HD-O-meter :D

Quote:
Share your views with the PBS Ombudsman, Michael Getler.


http://www.pbs.org/ombudsman/

although it appears to not be RMPBS specific.

Well, I got a BS reply from the obbudsman..... blah,blah, blah.... local stations are free to select any programming they choose. they can choose from national programming or whatever they want.... blah, balh, blah.

Essentially PBS/8-1 has gone from great (National Feed) to worthless to me with their current programming choices. I just hope they continue to broadcast Austin City Limits, Sonndstage and Great performances or I will remove it from my channel list.