So Wednesday I lost my TVGOS data. Not sure if it's out permanently from channel analog 8, but it was at the time. For my Sony OTA recorder, I had to download a patch for it, and now it can receive the guide over digital on channel 11.1.

cant find the AFA vs VMT hockey game on comcast..... bummer

cant find the AFA vs VMT hockey game on comcast..... bummer

Little late now, but on ESPN's scroll it showed the AFA game on ESPNU which is most likely a subscription channel.

Might want to keep an eye on Versus also since they had a lot of Mountain West football games on last fall.

Nope. ESPNU is not on comcast period! You could also watch on ESPN360.com but when you go through that, it detects that your IP is comcast and informs you that the content is not available.

The ESPNU info was posted (or PM'd, I can't remember) by Comcaster. He doesn't post on this board any more.

I was shocked that a local channel or some other service didnt step up to the plate. Too bad as the game would have been fun to watch, esp with 2OT!

It was on ESPNU on Dish Network, in SD.

Roy

Any Beyond TV users watch channel 8.1 or 8.3?

When i watched either of these channels there are periodic hiccups in the video, but the audio is fine. When I watch the same stations on my TV or even with the built in test tools for the tuner on the very same PC I do not experience the hiccup issues. So it's definitely related to BeyondTV but also related only to these two stations. I find this somewhat odd. I don't believe it's signal strength. It must be something related to the encoding on these stations.

Scott

Any Beyond TV users watch channel 8.1 or 8.3?

When i watched either of these channels there are periodic hiccups in the video, but the audio is fine. When I watch the same stations on my TV or even with the built in test tools for the tuner on the very same PC I do not experience the hiccup issues. So it's definitely related to BeyondTV but also related only to these two stations. I find this somewhat odd. I don't believe it's signal strength. It must be something related to the encoding on these stations.

Scott

Scott, I use BTV and haven't had a problem with the PBS stations, although I rarely watch them anymore (very little HD, lousy programming). I do record the Sherlock Holmes series and playback is OK. Just out of curiosity watched PBS for about 20 min between games today after I saw your post and everything was fine. I get stutter on both Fox and ABC if I use overlay mode, but none if I switch to 3D Hardware Acceleration (which is just the opposite of what logic or BTV would tell you). Try switching your rendering settings and see if that helps. A lot of us have had various stutter problems with BTV at times but it seems to be so varied that they've never been able to pin down the causes. It's probably just a combination of hardware, drivers and OS that react differently.

Scott, I use BTV and haven't had a problem with the PBS stations, although I rarely watch them anymore (very little HD, lousy programming). I do record the Sherlock Holmes series and playback is OK. Just out of curiosity watched PBS for about 20 min between games today after I saw your post and everything was fine. I get stutter on both Fox and ABC if I use overlay mode, but none if I switch to 3D Hardware Acceleration (which is just the opposite of what logic or BTV would tell you). Try switching your rendering settings and see if that helps. A lot of us have had various stutter problems with BTV at times but it seems to be so varied that they've never been able to pin down the causes. It's probably just a combination of hardware, drivers and OS that react differently.

Don't you find it suspicious that it's isolated to a particular station, rather than BTV HW&SW configuration?

I will do your rendering test to see if I can pin it down.

Scott

Anybody know what happened to KKTV, ch 11 Thursday night? I was watching CSI and about halfway through the show, the HD broadcast switched to SD and never came back.

Anybody know what happened to KKTV, ch 11 Thursday night? I was watching CSI and about halfway through the show, the HD broadcast switched to SD and never came back.

I wasn't watching, but recorded it OTA and it carried over all the way through Harper's Island. They had the same thing happen a few weeks ago on a Monday night, but then they even lost all the sound on 2 1/2 Men.

I've also noticed that about 2 weeks ago their signal strength jumped from the mid 80's to the high 90's and just the other day I noticed it had dropped back to the low 80's. They must be doing something with their transmitters. Hope they don't screw up the Masters this weekend - scenery in HD is is spectacular even if you don't like golf.

I am guessing this may have already been addressed somewhere but I couldn't find it with my searches.

WHY has our local NBC affiliate (KOAA) in Springs stopped airing all their late-night shows in HD for months it feels like now?? I know they used to, but now Leno, SNL, etc, are all 4:3.

I am guessing this may have already been addressed somewhere but I couldn't find it with my searches.

WHY has our local NBC affiliate (KOAA) in Springs stopped airing all their late-night shows in HD for months it feels like now?? I know they used to, but now Leno, SNL, etc, are all 4:3.

Good question. I've been wondering the same thing. I get the COS locals OTA and the Denver locals from my satellite provider using a Denver address. The Denver NBC affiliate airs the same programming in HD, so I'm not sure what KOAA's problem is.

Anyone know what's up with KOAA? I'd also suggest finding the email addresses of a few higher-ups on their website and asking them directly. I've not received a response, but maybe they'll get tired of emails if they receive enough and look into it eventually :D

We all knew it would happen someday; KOAA has joined the club.

We all knew it would happen someday; KOAA has joined the club.

And the PQ is pathetic. Wouldn't even be considered good analog.

We all knew it would happen someday; KOAA has joined the club.

What club do you speak of? :) It makes no sense to me that they were already airing them in HD for awhile and then to stop? And yeah, the PQ is all messed up since they stopped HD too, its not even as good as analog many times. Anyone have a contact there?

What club do you speak of? :) It makes no sense to me that they were already airing them in HD for awhile and then to stop? And yeah, the PQ is all messed up since they stopped HD too, its not even as good as analog many times. Anyone have a contact there?

What he's referring to is that KOAA now has a sub channel 5.2 with news and weather. I was referring to the PQ on 5.2, but you're right about the PQ on 5.1 not being as good as it was before either. I watched an older recording from KOAA and the PQ was much better than it was on the shows this Monday.

I was watching KKTV last night and it was nice to see that they can now put up their weather crawl without losing HD. It does shrink the picture vertically though. Now if we could only convince them that rain in the plains does not require a continuous crawl.

Yes progress, but agreed, they try to make anything sound like a weather catastrophe is upon us.

I was watching KKTV last night and it was nice to see that they can now put up their weather crawl without losing HD. It does shrink the picture vertically though. Now if we could only convince them that rain in the plains does not require a continuous crawl.

Yah... I get it. It's Colorado during the winter, it's going to snow, people know that. If you're inside watching TV you don't care, if you're outside driving you already know it's snowing. So what?

Now if an alien space ship just landed on top of Pikes Peak and was zapping cars on the road for fun just like a kid with a magnifying glass zapping ants... that's something I might want to know about promptly.

Is KTSC off air this morning? Both RMPBS and Create are dead at my place.

Is KTSC off air this morning? Both RMPBS and Create are dead at my place.

Just saw your post and checked - it's 5:30 and they're still off. Analog on 8 is up, though.

RMPBS is still down. Is there some way for us to find out what's going on?

According to their website http://www.rmpbs.org/

"We are aware of the problem with Channel 8, and our Engineering department is working on it. Thank you for your patience and our apologies."

Thanks for that. I didn't even think to check their website.

People are griping about the problem on their DTV transition page, but no other response from RMPBS has been posted there.

People are griping about the problem on their DTV transition page, but no other response from RMPBS has been posted there.

Do they associate the transition with this problem? They've already gone digital, so I don't really see how this is related, but maybe it is somehow.

The important thing for me to know is that it isn't a problem on my end. I have been having many issues with my HD HomeRuns not working properly that when I first couldn't get RMPBS I thought it was yet another HDHR issue to address.

Thanks again.

Scott

Do they associate the transition with this problem? They've already gone digital, so I don't really see how this is related, but maybe it is somehow.

The important thing for me to know is that it isn't a problem on my end. I have been having many issues with my HD HomeRuns not working properly that when I first couldn't get RMPBS I thought it was yet another HDHR issue to address.

Thanks again.

Scott

I don't know what happened, but there was no Channel 8 feed over my analog cable for a while this evening. The channel was black. Seems to be back now (i.e. there is programming). So was this a "DTV transition problem" per their website? Curious.

warlocked is right - There is a lot of griping about service on the DTV transition thread. Is anyone there at RMPBS at night? It seems Ch 8 is getting the short end of the stick. Think the problems observed on Ch 8 would last this long if they were happening on Ch 6? Doubtful. I knew when RMPBS took over Channel 8 problems would develop for us down here in So. Colo. Maybe we should "take it back". Are there enough viewers in Southern Colo that could support the station as it was (or similar to it) before the RMPBS take over? I wonder ...

For those interested, on the RMPBS website panorama page for DTV conversion (see http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/434?CFID=9634758&CFTOKEN=14435891 ) , here is an explanation for what happened to Ch 8 the other night from the Director of Engineering.


Director of Engineering
Monday, April 20, 2009 8:53 a.m.


Regarding the loss of KTSC on Saturday evening; due to the snow storm we lost power to our microwave relay on Squaw Mountain. This relay carries programming to the transmitter on Cheyenne Mountain and telemetry back to Master Control.
The microwave relay station relies on battery backup to bridge most of the power interruptions that are common on a mountain top site, however this power outage was longer than the reserve capacity of the batteries, and preceding intermittent outages did not allow sufficient time for the system to fully recharge.
When we lose the feed to the transmitters the processing equipment "holds" the last frame of video and audio until the stream is restored resulting in a "frozen" picture.

John Anderson
C.T.O. Rocky Mountain PBS

Has anyone checked with KRDO, or heard anything from them recently, about someday getting Dolby Digital going?!

It's great that they are the only station in town with their 10:00 news in HD, but it's about time they get Dolby Digital going for their prime time shows.
(Actually, it's like a year PAST time that they get DD going!) :(

Rob

Has anyone checked with KRDO, or heard anything from them recently, about someday getting Dolby Digital going?!

It's great that they are the only station in town with their 10:00 news in HD, but it's about time they get Dolby Digital going for their prime time shows.
(Actually, it's like a year PAST time that they get DD going!) :(

Rob

Face it, we live in a small market with underfunded small town stations that have no real incentive to spend the big bucks. Might as well rent Blu-ray disks if you want DD/HD quality audio/video. Probably won't see it OTA or on the cable. Now if we could get the feed direct from the networks ... :D

Face it, we live in a small market with underfunded small town stations that have no real incentive to spend the big bucks. Might as well rent Blu-ray disks if you want DD/HD quality audio/video. Probably won't see it OTA or on the cable. Now if we could get the feed direct from the networks ... :D

I agree with the small market stuff, but KOAA, KKTV, and KXRM all have Dolby Digital so I'm still hoping KRDO will one day... :)

Good question. I've been wondering the same thing. I get the COS locals OTA and the Denver locals from my satellite provider using a Denver address. The Denver NBC affiliate airs the same programming in HD, so I'm not sure what KOAA's problem is.

Anyone know what's up with KOAA? I'd also suggest finding the email addresses of a few higher-ups on their website and asking them directly. I've not received a response, but maybe they'll get tired of emails if they receive enough and look into it eventually :D

I thought I'd give it a try and ask about getting syndicated HD from them also. Here's the reply I got from the programming director:

The video server that records NBC's high definition programming, like "Leno" and "SNL" has been out of service for a while now. Our engineers have been working with the manufacture of the server to get it corrected, but have been unable to correct it. Once they do get it working, then "Leno" and "SNL" will return in HD.

As for the syndicated programs, the plan is to purchase the server that will allow us to record syndicated shows in HD. As of now, we're looking at sometime in the 3rd quarter.

Regards,
Ron Eccher

Ron Eccher
Program Director
KOAA - TV

Did anyone catch PBS Mystery Sunday evening (Channel 8)? I recorded it off the cable (Comcast) on a DVD for later playback (last night). Let's just say the video was less than steller. There were periodic pixelization and audio dropout errors that occurred with alarming frequency (every 5-10 minutes it seems). Also, the overall picture quality was poor, very noisy (which is a surprise, but then I have analog cable). Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else had poor picture quality and if so, how did you view the program (e.g. OTA, Cable, etc.).
Cheers

Is everyone able to decode 48.2 - Telefutura? I just added it yesterday. Let me know what problems you have.

Is everyone able to decode 48.2 - Telefutura? I just added it yesterday. Let me know what problems you have.

Not that I really watch those channels, but that channel works ok. 48.1 I can't get any audio to work.

Not that I really watch those channels, but that channel works ok. 48.1 I can't get any audio to work.

I checked with OTA, TV tuner. Both 48.1 and 48.2 are fine both video and audio.

Not that I really watch those channels, but that channel works ok. 48.1 I can't get any audio to work.

What is your setup? I've had this problem reported, but I can't trace it because everything I decode with decodes the audio. Help with this is greatly appreciated.

Is anyone else seeing breakups on NBC/KOAA this afternoon? It seems to be happening on my HR20 and HR21, both on OTA 5-1 and on DirecTV HD local on 5 (which is a rebroadcast off the OTA feed I believe). I'm assuming it's a station problem or antenna problem right now.

Is anyone else seeing breakups on NBC/KOAA this afternoon? It seems to be happening on my HR20 and HR21, both on OTA 5-1 and on DirecTV HD local on 5 (which is a rebroadcast off the OTA feed I believe). I'm assuming it's a station problem or antenna problem right now.

I recorded the Preakness OTA on my HTPC with Beyond TV and didn't see any problems, although I did FF a lot for the first hour or so.

What is your setup? I've had this problem reported, but I can't trace it because everything I decode with decodes the audio. Help with this is greatly appreciated.

OTA tuner. Sony DHG-HDD500 model. It's a High Def tuner and high def recorder box. It can also run with a cable card, but I'm not using cable, just OTA. At one time for some reason, if I tuned to a different digital station first and then change it to 48.1, the audio would work. I remember this happening to one other Colorado Springs digital station, I forget which one it was.

What is your setup? I've had this problem reported, but I can't trace it because everything I decode with decodes the audio. Help with this is greatly appreciated.

Oh, my parents have a dishnetwork box with ota tuner built in. I know previously it wasn't working either. When I get a chance to go by there I will check it again and write down the model number.

What is your setup? I've had this problem reported, but I can't trace it because everything I decode with decodes the audio. Help with this is greatly appreciated.

I checked 48.1 and 2 with 4 different tuners with these results:

Philips 42" Plasma ATSC tuner: no problems with either video or audio
Avermedia ATSC PC tuner: ditto
Dynex 32" LCD ATSC tuner: ditto
Dish VIP722 ATSC tuner: video, but no audio on either
All 4 receiving signal from same antennae.

I remember when PBS added 8.2 and 3 to their lineup and had audio problems for a while also with some tuners.

I checked 48.1 and 2 with 4 different tuners with these results:

Philips 42" Plasma ATSC tuner: no problems with either video or audio
Avermedia ATSC PC tuner: ditto
Dynex 32" LCD ATSC tuner: ditto
Dish VIP722 ATSC tuner: video, but no audio on either
All 4 receiving signal from same antennae.

I remember when PBS added 8.2 and 3 to their lineup and had audio problems for a while also with some tuners.

My TV was one of those that had audio troubles with 8.2 and 8.3.

I just tried 48.1 and 48.2 on my Sony 52XBR4. I get No Signal on 48.1 and video only on 48.2.

Scott

I think I've located the problem with the audio. I will make the table changes while I am on site tomorrow.

On Friday night while watching KKTV (CBS) they had a crawl saying that there would be no HD programming during primetime due to a problem with audio recording. Last night the Survivor finale was not shown in HD and there was no crawl. I am assuming that they are still having a recording problem. Does anybody have any more information about when it may be resolved?

Is everyone able to decode 48.2 - Telefutura? I just added it yesterday. Let me know what problems you have.

Using an Insignia NS-DXA1 DTV converter box, I get video on 48-1 and 48-2. However no audio on either. By the way I used to get video and audio on 48-3 when it was the only channel on 48, but 48-3 seems to have been replaced by 48-1.

Is anyone else seeing breakups on NBC/KOAA this afternoon? It seems to be happening on my HR20 and HR21, both on OTA 5-1 and on DirecTV HD local on 5 (which is a rebroadcast off the OTA feed I believe). I'm assuming it's a station problem or antenna problem right now.

I've had very low signal strength on 5-1 and 5-2 for over 2 weeks, causing breakups and total picture/sound loss. I'd assumed KOAA was tinkering prior to June 12th. This is OTA with an Insignia NS-DXA1 converter box. It was relatively OK for many weeks prior to May.

Okay, I've made the changes to the way the PMT and PAT tables are being generated. Hopefully, this has resolved the audio issues. It is really tough to troubleshoot these things when I don't have one of the receivers that has trouble with the data. I appreciate the feedback!

Okay, I've made the changes to the way the PMT and PAT tables are being generated. Hopefully, this has resolved the audio issues. It is really tough to troubleshoot these things when I don't have one of the receivers that has trouble with the data. I appreciate the feedback!
48-1 and 48-2 are now fine for both audio and video on my Insignia NS-DXA1 DTV converter box. Of course, it's still a little academic for me, since I don't speak Spanish :D

Okay, I've made the changes to the way the PMT and PAT tables are being generated. Hopefully, this has resolved the audio issues. It is really tough to troubleshoot these things when I don't have one of the receivers that has trouble with the data. I appreciate the feedback!


The dishnetwork VIP722 box audio now works fine. The audio on my Sony DHG-HDD500 model still does not work for 48.1. 48.2 works fine.

I've noticed a couple of problems lately on Comcast Ch 8 (KTSC, RMPBS) in Colo Spgs and they seem to be getting worse. They are:

1. Digital pixilization, frame freezes, audio dropouts that can last anywhere from a few frames to 1 or 2 seconds. Is this a result of over compression/bit rate reductions from Ch 8 (too many SD channels maybe) or Comcast? Or, could this be an artifact from the PBS national feed? I noticed this on two weeks of recordings of Mystery (through cable). Next week I'll record OTA.

2. Multipath interference as evidenced by wavy lines and ghosts. Apparently the OTA signal is strong enough to interfere with the cable signal. This was a major problem when living closer to Cheyenne Mtn. I din't have it before, now I see it in Briargate. When it was really bad, I called Comcast several times and nothing was ever done. IT was leaking through their cable somewhere because all my cable connections were terminated. When asked why they couldn't swap channels (say move OTA Ch 8 to Cable 7 or 9, like they do for Ch 11 on cable 10), they said it would interfere with those channels. I wonder, if this is so is there a revenue stream at risk (forget service to viewers)?

Has anyone else noticed these signal quality degradations over their cable? BTW I know there is multipath or some phase/timing issue on the cable caused by OTA interference/leakage into the cable. When I watch OTA, the signal is OK (not great, but the objectionable interference goes away).

Since Comcast is unwilling to do a channel swap, will digital signals over cable and OTA eliminate this problem? One would think so, but I'll reserve judgement until cut-over.

BTW all connections are tight, next thing to do - place 75 ohm terminations on all open jacks. OTA signal leakage may be coming through them.

Any comments, thoughts, recommendations, and/or observations from anyone else getting RMBPS through cable? Thanks.

1. Digital pixilization, frame freezes, audio dropouts that can last anywhere from a few frames to 1 or 2 seconds. Is this a result of over compression/bit rate reductions from Ch 8 (too many SD channels maybe) or Comcast? Or, could this be an artifact from the PBS national feed? I noticed this on two weeks of recordings of Mystery (through cable). Next week I'll record OTA.

I pull RMPBS OTA and it has terrible pixelation and other signs of poor signal quality. Green blobs are the best I can describe it. My instincts tell me it's due to their relay tower and nothing from broadcast on Cheyenne Mountain or my antenna/receivers. I believe the pixelation is due to overly aggressive compression.

Has anyone else noticed these signal quality degradations over their cable? BTW I know there is multipath or some phase/timing issue on the cable caused by OTA interference/leakage into the cable. When I watch OTA, the signal is OK (not great, but the objectionable interference goes away).

No cable for me so I cannot comment. I do have a question though. When you pull RMPBS OTA, NTSC or ATSC? I ask because I feel the 8.1 RMPBS ATSC broadcast is terrible quality, so if what you are describing over Comcast is even worse than that, I would deem it unwatchable.


BTW all connections are tight, next thing to do - place 75 ohm terminations on all open jacks. OTA signal leakage may be coming through them.

Before going through that effort, could you try disconnecting everything from the cable from Comcast and place just one TV on it as close to the drop coming into your home as possible? I had a similar problem with line quality in my home's phone wiring. Even though my area could achieve 8Mbps DSL speeds I could only achieve 1.5Mbps. I took the DSL unit with a laptop, and a short phone wire with one end clipped off out to the phone box where the phone comes into the house from the ground. I disconnected everything from the house and connected the short 3ft long phone wire and just the DSL unit. I then did a performance test from the laptop outside. Superb service. So I knew it was my home's phone wiring. If it wasn't superb I would have known it was something with either the DSL modem or the service QWest was providing. I know this isn't the same issue because you're talking about Comcast cable television service, but it might be a good example to remind us that home communication wiring can really suck sometimes.


Any comments, thoughts, recommendations, and/or observations from anyone else getting RMBPS through cable? Thanks.

I'm pulling the ATSC signal OTA. I find RMPBS sucks on the ATSC OTA signal, if you are saying the Comcast relay of this is even worse than the ATSC OTA broadcast from Cheyenne Mountain, that would be unbearable.

Cheers,
Scott

Scott,
Thanks for the note. Glad to hear its not just me a little unhappy about RMPBS signal quality. Oh BTW, check out the comments on the RMPBS forum. Apparently there appear to be system wide issues (i.e. people in Denver our griping about KRMA too). Go to:

http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/434?CFID=9634758&CFTOKEN=14435891

I pull RMPBS OTA and it has terrible pixelation and other signs of poor signal quality. Green blobs are the best I can describe it. My instincts tell me it's due to their relay tower and nothing from broadcast on Cheyenne Mountain or my antenna/receivers. I believe the pixelation is due to overly aggressive compression.

I'm presuming your comment regarding their relay tower refers to the Studio to Transmitter link. I looked up the FCC records for KTSC Studio to Transmitter links, Radio Service Type TS. Here's the info:

1. WHY618 - Pueblo to Cheyenne Mtn, 58 km (~25 mi), Frequency: 7,050-7,075 MHz, Emission Designator: 25M0F9W.

2. WDD24 - Pueblo to Shared transmitter tower (with KOAA Ch 5/30) north of Pueblo, ~8 km (~5 mi), Frequency: 12,975-13,000 MHz, Emission Designator: 25M0F9W.

I'm not sure which site is being used at the moment for Ch 8 analog service (i.e. Cheyenne Mtn or Pueblo tower or both). Come June Cheyenne Mtn the current Ch 26 digital transmission ends and Ch 8 digital is broadcast from Cheyenne Mtn. Hopefully that will clean things up. Still, ... We'll see.

The first four digits of the emission designator tell us they have a transmission bandwidth of 25 MHz on both links. That should be more than enough for a digital signal and other services (assuming a 19.2 Mbps data rate with even modest modulation like QPSK). So it would seem that there should be no compression atifacts on the studio to transmitter link. Now if there are problems with the transmission equipment, that's a different story. Note that heavy rainshowers can be problematic on the links by causing attenuation, particularly on WDD24. So I think we have to look elsewhere beside the studio-transmitter link for the problem.


No cable for me so I cannot comment. I do have a question though. When you pull RMPBS OTA, NTSC or ATSC? I ask because I feel the 8.1 RMPBS ATSC broadcast is terrible quality, so if what you are describing over Comcast is even worse than that, I would deem it unwatchable.

I watch RMBPS OTA with NTSC. Time to get a box or new TV with ATSC tuner I suppose. More $$$$ *sigh* I think its a scam to make us buy new expensive electronics that will fail or need upgrade in 5-10 years. Somehow I think the electronics manufacters don't like the fact that analog/CRT TVs can last a long time (I have a Panasonic 26 in TV bought in 1988 that still runs like a champ) :D


Before going through that effort, could you try disconnecting everything from the cable from Comcast and place just one TV on it as close to the drop coming into your home as possible?

I could, but I live in an apartment with three relatively short cable runs. Its just as easy to buy a couple of terminators and put them on the jacks.


I'm pulling the ATSC signal OTA. I find RMPBS sucks on the ATSC OTA signal, if you are saying the Comcast relay of this is even worse than the ATSC OTA broadcast from Cheyenne Mountain, that would be unbearable.

The NTSC signal is far better than the cable distribution - though not crystal clear digital great, it shows signs of weak analog signal reception/noise. Of course I'm using a very simple antenna for analog reception so that's not surprising. At least I don't see the multipath noise. I've yet to see any digital noise artifacts yet (because I've not really watched much TV lately). I'll tape the OTA broadcast of Mystery on Sunday and see how it looks. Was talking with a friend who said that she's seen a lot of digital noise on other channels, so I'm sort of a mind that some of the problems stem from Comcast compressing the signal. See the Comcast HD quality forum for details on that lovely problem:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008271&page=63

I still get a little miffed over Comcast's unwillingness to fix their problems (i.e. over compression and channel swap like they do for KKTV and KRDO). :mad: I'm sorely tempted to cancel cable and go with OTA and satellite, though I don't watch much TV these days. Also, I wish RMPBS would drop their SD programming and devote their entire bit stream to full HD transmission for their primetime marquis programs (e.g. Mystery, Nova, American Experience, etc.) if they aren't doing that already. That might also help them work out some bugs with their DTV transmission by removing some variables - just a thought from my days working in satellite communications. :D I wonder if its possible to get the PBS C/Ku band satellite feed direct (i.e. satellite receiver) and avoid all the hassles of local TV (e.g. poor signal quality, constant begging, missing episodes, shows not seen because they can't afford them, etc.).

Oh well, let's sit back and see where this ride takes us in June.
Cheers
Nick

Scott,
Thanks for the note. Glad to hear its not just me a little unhappy about RMPBS signal quality.

I'm presuming your comment regarding their relay tower refers to the Studio to Transmitter link. I looked up the FCC records for KTSC Studio to Transmitter links, Radio Service Type TS. Here's the info:

1. WHY618 - Pueblo to Cheyenne Mtn, 58 km (~25 mi), Frequency: 7,050-7,075 MHz, Emission Designator: 25M0F9W.

2. WDD24 - Pueblo to Shared transmitter tower (with KOAA Ch 5/30) north of Pueblo, ~8 km (~5 mi), Frequency: 12,975-13,000 MHz, Emission Designator: 25M0F9W.

I'm not sure which site is being used at the moment for Ch 8 analog service (i.e. Cheyenne Mtn or Pueblo tower or both). Come June Cheyenne Mtn the current Ch 26 digital transmission ends and Ch 8 digital is broadcast from Cheyenne Mtn. Hopefully that will clean things up. Still, ... We'll see.

I am referring to their relay tower on Squaw mountain. If I understand correctly the broadcast is in Denver, it is relayed at Squaw Mountain, and received and broadcast to Pueblo and Colorado Springs from Cheyenne Mountain. I am assuming some of the problems are at the Squaw Mountain relay because my signal quality from Cheyenne Mountain is perfect for RMPBS, but yet I have tons of dropped data which is evident with the digital nature of the broadcast. I could be wrong, just my assumption based on what I'm seeing.

Scott

I watch RMBPS OTA with NTSC. Time to get a box or new TV with ATSC tuner I suppose. More $$$$ *sigh* I think its a scam to make us buy new expensive electronics that will fail or need upgrade in 5-10 years. Somehow I think the electronics manufacters don't like the fact that analog/CRT TVs can last a long time (I have a Panasonic 26 in TV bought in 1988 that still runs like a champ) :D

It isn't a corporate conspiracy. DoD needed a new spectrum and I believe the FCC was already kicking around the idea of what to do about digital television but hadn't figured it out yet. It was good timing to obtain the needed spectrum for DoD. That's probably why Congress is paying for the transition since it's in support of our military, rather than corporations. I may have my facts wrong, that's just what I understand about the change.

Scott

I am referring to their relay tower on Squaw mountain. If I understand correctly the broadcast is in Denver, it is relayed at Squaw Mountain, and received and broadcast to Pueblo and Colorado Springs from Cheyenne Mountain. I am assuming some of the problems are at the Squaw Mountain relay because my signal quality from Cheyenne Mountain is perfect for RMPBS, but yet I have tons of dropped data which is evident with the digital nature of the broadcast. I could be wrong, just my assumption based on what I'm seeing.

Scott

Could be that RMBPS Denver to Pueblo link. Wonder why they wouldn't pick up the national feed in Pueblo and distribute it from there - but then that's the way it used to be. Maybe that costs more. Hmmmm. Typically the microwave links are not the problem since they usually have more bandwidth than required for the broadcast signals we see. Still, if the modulation equipment is overcompressing signal in front of the RF equipment, then there is a problem there.

And, of course my comment about buying new and more expensive electronics was made tongue in cheek. :D

Cheers.
Nick

And, of course my comment about buying new and more expensive electronics was made tongue in cheek. :D

I hear ya. I didn't pick up the sarcasm. I don't assume most people to understand the real motive for the digital transition. What you see on TV adverts is that it's simply a good thing to do. That isn't the real motive for it from my understanding, even though it is a good thing to do.

You know that you won't have a choice for OTA in the very near future, right?

Thankfully everything I use but one TV has ATSC tuners built in.

Scott

You know that you won't have a choice for OTA in the very near future, right?

Thankfully everything I use but one TV has ATSC tuners built in.

Scott

Yup, thus my quip about the converter box and TV with ATSC tuner. But maybe, just maybe, digital conversion will cure Ch 8 woes on the cable! :D
Cheers

The audio is still out on 48.1 for the Sony DHG-HDD500. I checked and I didn't see any errors with PAT or PMT.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/digital-55106-ktsc-viewers.html

Channel 8 turned off their analog feed. Now maybe they should concentrate on broadcasting high definition.

Channel 8 turned off their analog feed. Now maybe they should concentrate on broadcasting high definition.

Yup - I can vouch for that. No NTSC analog broadcast OTA being received on my old TV. I can't speak to the digital programming (I have an analog TV hooked up to cable), but the Channel 8 picture quality is much, much better. Multipath interference is gone and in general quality is very good. Now, let's see what happens with respect to digital noise artifacts.
Cheers.

Yup - I can vouch for that. No NTSC analog broadcast OTA being received on my old TV. I can't speak to the digital programming (I have an analog TV hooked up to cable), but the Channel 8 picture quality is much, much better. Multipath interference is gone and in general quality is very good. Now, let's see what happens with respect to digital noise artifacts.
Cheers.

I do not believe ATSC suffers from multipath issues. So if NTSC is gone, multipath issues are also gone.

Scott

I do not believe ATSC suffers from multipath issues. So if NTSC is gone, multipath issues are also gone.

Scott

I wouldn't expect multipath with an ATSC digital broadcast either - one of the benefits of digital signals. Sweet.

I wouldn't expect multipath with an ATSC digital broadcast either - one of the benefits of digital signals. Sweet.
ATSC r.f. carriers echo off reflectors just like NTSC did. Receiving antenna systems will combine the direct and reflected signals due to the physics and geometry, so when the echo arrives out-of-phase it will hurt the signal going into digital receivers. When the received signal is too weak or has too much echo in it, the digital decoder will crash and report NO SIGNAL. ATSC multipath has been a huge problem for people with inadequate receiving antenna systems. Those pesky laws of physics!!

ATSC very much suffers from multipath issues. It manifests itself as widely varying signal strength. If your receiver shows the signal jumping all over the place, you are having multipath problems.

- Trip

ATSC very much suffers from multipath issues. It manifests itself as widely varying signal strength. If your receiver shows the signal jumping all over the place, you are having multipath problems.

- Trip

My point was really that you won't see traditional multipath problems. It's digital, either you are receiving it, or you are not. So the picture quality is either perfect, or frames are missing. So in the situation you are bringing up multipath could cause a lot of dropped frames.

Cheers,
Scott

According to the article, they won't move DTV to 8 until 6/12, so the multi-path problems that existed on analog 8 but not digital 26 may return.

However, as noted above, there are two possibilities, multi-path will not be bad enough to cause a disruption or it will and drop-outs and/or no signal will be displayed.

Then, on June 12 if all goes well, KTSC will switch its frequency from Channel 26, where it currently broadcasts in digital, back to Channel 8, where it used to broadcast in analog. It's likely to be confusing to some viewers, however, because most digital TVs display KTSC as Channel 8 already, even though it broadcasts on 26. The switcheroo will require many viewers to rescan the channels on their televisions or digital converter boxes.

Hi all and TIA for any help...I am kind of a different case and I have not found info on my own that relates to my homes' location so I must seek out you pro-guys' assistance for first post!

My cabin is pretty high up on the Mtn., off of Old Stage Rd., and below Wills' Shrine. I can see the flag from my kitchen window, without my glasses even...
-But if you were driving up Old Stage, looking towards the houses below the shrine, you can see many of my neighbors' homes but NOT my shack in particular, and I assume that affects both equipment needs and the signals I do/don't and hopefully will receive?

I have 16 days to figure out which converter boxes (2) to get before the coupons expire, and which antennae/preamp to get as well. I did go to the AntWeb.org site, and I get 2 answers- large and medium directionals w/ preamp..

I have done so much researching and sadly I am even MORE confused now than ever, and my head will likely not withstand the pressure if I don't stop soon!

Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks

Hi all and TIA for any help...I am kind of a different case and I have not found info on my own that relates to my homes' location so I must seek out you pro-guys' assistance for first post!

My cabin is pretty high up on the Mtn., off of Old Stage Rd., and below Wills' Shrine. I can see the flag from my kitchen window, without my glasses even...
-But if you were driving up Old Stage, looking towards the houses below the shrine, you can see many of my neighbors' homes but NOT my shack in particular, and I assume that affects both equipment needs and the signals I do/don't and hopefully will receive?

I have 16 days to figure out which converter boxes (2) to get before the coupons expire, and which antennae/preamp to get as well. I did go to the AntWeb.org site, and I get 2 answers- large and medium directionals w/ preamp..

I have done so much researching and sadly I am even MORE confused now than ever, and my head will likely not withstand the pressure if I don't stop soon!

Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks

If you currently have an antenna you are using for the NTSC analog broadcasts, you do not need to replace them. Do you know if you have a UHF, VHF or combo antenna? Is it pointed at the mountain? if so, that's all the more antenna you'll need. As for the tuner box, I don't have any experience with those but I'd suspect the options to consider have more to do with what your TV is. Does your TV have composite (single RCA video connector), S-Video (tiny little connector with lots of pins), component (3 RCA connectors), or HDMI inputs?

Scott

My point was really that you won't see traditional multipath problems. It's digital, either you are receiving it, or you are not. So the picture quality is either perfect, or frames are missing. So in the situation you are bringing up multipath could cause a lot of dropped frames.

Cheers,
Scott

That's what I would think too. That is, if the signal leakage into the cable was strong enough there would be missing frames. Too, going beyond the "physical layer" (i.e. the modulated carrier) and looking at the "data layer" (i.e. the bit stream), wouldn't forrward error correction minimize the effect of multipath? Or, are dropped frames the result of a multipath signal scrambling the FEC so that a frame could not be assembled? Just curious.

On another matter, I watched Ch 8's Masterpiece Theatre Mystery over the cable tonight and I have good news and bad news. The good news: now that they stopped broadasting CH 8 analog, the signal quality for the most part was clean. All the analog noise/interference was gone. :D The bad news, I still saw digital noise artifacts (pixilization, freezes, and missing audio). I'm presuming these were the result of dropped frames. They seemed to happen about once every 5-10 minutes and were very brief to a second or two. Severity ranged from a single white pixel to complete image freeze, pixilated image and lost audio. :( Was anyone watching Mystery OTA? If so was similar phenomena observed on the broadast?

If it was happening OTA, then its probably safe to blame RMBPS encoding. If it was only on cable, then I think we can point to Comcast and its uber compression policies with corresponding HD quality reduction. :mad: There's a whole thread devoted to Comcast HD over compression - is it a problem here in Colo Spgs? Or, could it be a combination of both? If RMBPS is transmitting several SD channels, that doesn't leave a lot bps for their "HD" program and coupled with Comcast over compression ... Well, you get the picture (or don't), no pun intended.

If this is the promise of HD TV, its getting to the point where I think I'll just scrap TV (cable, OTA, and satellite) altogether and just rent DVDs. Sheesh.

Cheers

That's what I would think too. That is, if the signal leakage into the cable was strong enough there would be missing frames. Too, going beyond the "physical layer" (i.e. the modulated carrier) and looking at the "data layer" (i.e. the bit stream), wouldn't forrward error correction minimize the effect of multipath? Or, are dropped frames the result of a multipath signal scrambling the FEC so that a frame could not be assembled? Just curious.

You've thought about it far more than I have. Here's my logic: ATSC is digital, multipath reduces SNR. That's all the more thought I put into it. :D

Scott

In case anyone hasn't noticed and has recording scheduled on KKTV, their digital signal has been down all day, but the analog signal is OK. Their website says they had a lightning strike.

This station seems to have the worst signal strength for our area, any hopes in getting it increased after the transition on 6/12?

I use a small portable TV outside on the weekends, and it has a digital tuner.

This is the only station that will not come in with the TV's built-in telescoping antenna.

I am also hoping that KKTVs strength will improve. For about 2 weeks now I can no longer pull it in upstairs. My set-up and my antenna haven't moved so they must have changed something. Frustrating!

I'm a new resident to the Springs, zip 80920.

Where I'm from in Michigan, I subscribed to a very limited basic analog cable package from Comcast, and then used a Samsung set-top QAM tuner to decode the unscrambled QAM digital broadcasts that Comcast sends along as well. It was a pretty limited channel line-up compared to Comcast's other channel lineups, but had some SD stuff like Discovery, History, ESPN, etc. HD OTA channels from the networks were also passed along and properly decoded by the Samsung QAM tuner.

Can anyone tell me if Comcast sends along QAM digital channels in their Basic package for the 80920 zipcode? If so, what channels are there?

Customer service agents at Comcast have not been helpful to answer this question - I honestly think they don't know.

What's up with KTSC? My HD Tivo shows two 8-1's, one with guide data, but no picture/sound, one with picture/sound and no guide data.... are they planning to fix this by 6/12 or sooner? This kinda screws up my season passes in a bad way.

All I care about from KTSC is Austin City Limits and a few other music programs like Soundstage.... but I do like it with HD picture , sound and accurate guide data all on the same channel. :rolleyes:

What's up with KTSC? My HD Tivo shows two 8-1's, one with guide data, but no picture/sound, one with picture/sound and no guide data.... are they planning to fix this by 6/12 or sooner? This kinda screws up my season passes in a bad way.

All I care about from KTSC is Austin City Limits and a few other music programs like Soundstage.... but I do like it with HD picture , sound and accurate guide data all on the same channel. :rolleyes:

I think when they dropped their analog channel, some guide providers got information that they were switching from Frequency 26 to 8 and jumped the gun. My BTV won't tune in any of the PBS channels because they're showing the frequency as 8. My Dish DVR, Windows Media Center and HDTVs are still alright. If they don't get it corrected, it'll take care of itself on 6/12 when they do change frequencies.

I am also hoping that KKTVs strength will improve. For about 2 weeks now I can no longer pull it in upstairs. My set-up and my antenna haven't moved so they must have changed something. Frustrating!

ditto for me in pueblo, upstairs set lost signal about 2 weeks ago...

Rmassey- these shows are EXCELLENT (most of the time) and is the main reason I watch PBS too (plus This Old House). Clapton/Winwood was great last weekend as was the Stevie Wonder show. Can't wait for the Clapton/Winwood concert in a couple of weeks in Denver.

Just tape them and fast-forward thru all of the fundraising crap ; )

Wonder why station mgt. never gave a press release (as far as I can tell) saying they shut-off the analog feed early!

This station seems to have the worst signal strength for our area, any hopes in getting it increased after the transition on 6/12?

I know that it is primarily due to the fact that KKTV is broadcasting on a VHF channel, but I still find it interesting that KKTV's signal has the worse signal strength for you and others in Colorado Springs, yet I get it fairly often here in Fort Collins (I once got a lock for a few seconds on KRDO, but I get KKTV for hours at a time, multiple times per week).

jsmar: We have a place up near the North Fork of the Poudre (near Halligan reservior) and we are taking a converter box to see if we can pick up any digital stations from Cheyenne or Denver.

All we get now is a CBS station on analog from Cheyenne, so I doubt we will get ANY digital stations since the analog one we do get is pretty poor quality.

Can you get Cheyenne digital stations ok? I assume your Denver digital stations are ok, except for 6-1 which has not increased their signal yet.

Rmassey- these shows are EXCELLENT (most of the time) and is the main reason I watch PBS too (plus This Old House). Clapton/Winwood was great last weekend as was the Stevie Wonder show.

Yeah, Great performances is also one of the PBS music programs I have a season pass for. Unfortunately my HD Tivo missed the Clapton/Winwood show due to the missing guide data. I also have the Stevie Wonder show on the TODO list, but it will prob be missed as well unless they get things fixed.

Too bad this town is amateur hour when it comes to HDTV and transitions to new tech.

I am also hoping that KKTVs strength will improve. For about 2 weeks now I can no longer pull it in upstairs. My set-up and my antenna haven't moved so they must have changed something. Frustrating!

Since KKTV came back on the air, I'm getting 100 signal strength on my Dish DVR ATSC tuner and it was in the low 80's before. I'm getting 100 on all but Fox which is running mid to high 90's. So they apparently boosted their signal when they made their repairs.

jsmar: We have a place up near the North Fork of the Poudre (near Halligan reservior) and we are taking a converter box to see if we can pick up any digital stations from Cheyenne or Denver.

All we get now is a CBS station on analog from Cheyenne, so I doubt we will get ANY digital stations since the analog one we do get is pretty poor quality.

Can you get Cheyenne digital stations ok? I assume your Denver digital stations are ok, except for 6-1 which has not increased their signal yet.

I have a fairly good outdoor antenna setup (a CM 4228 for UHF and an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for high VHF). However, the CM4228 is mounted on the front of my chimney, so it partially blocks the back of the antenna, and I don't use a rotator. I can still get the two full power Cheyenne stations (KGWN and KLWY), but not reliably. But I know that if I pointed my antenna in that direction with nothing obstructing it I would get great reception. Note, I do get KRMA from Mount Morrison fairly reliably, but we also have a low power KRMA translator here in Fort Collins.

As far as receiving OTA television near Halligan Resevoir, a lot will depend on whether or not you are in a low area or canyon, vs. being at a high point. Still, I don't think your chances would be good with an indoor antenna. A good outdoor antenna would make a huge difference, and yet, even then you may only be able to get a station or two. You should plug your exact coordinates (zip won't cut it because the terrain in that area varies dramatically) into TV Fool (www.tvfool.com) and see what comes out. My guess is that your best chance of receiving anything would be KFCT in Fort Collins. Hopefully your converter box has a 5th or 6th generation ATSC tuner, because you'll need it. One of the easiest to get would be the Zenith DTT 901 (or the Best Buy Insignia equivalent).

Your chances of getting KFCT will be significantly improved if they ever get around to moving to their new location. However, I've heard that KDVR wants to sell KFCT, so perhaps they no longer have any intention of making improvements.

How are you guys getting HD shows on KTSC? I have Comcast, and KTSC on channel 708 has been 100% SD for months and months now. Am I missing something?

How are you guys getting HD shows on KTSC? I have Comcast, and KTSC on channel 708 has been 100% SD for months and months now. Am I missing something?

We jump into our time machines and go back to the time before KTSC was assimilated by RMPBS. Back then, they used to have the best HD quality you could get locally because they broadcast the full un-subchannelled national PBS feed. Alas, those days are gone. I read on the RMPBS site that they hope to have some sort of HD in July or so. For now, there is no HD.

jsmar: Thanks for the info, we will probably take up one of my dad's DigitalStream converters (from Radio Shack and actually one of the best out there from the reviews) to test the signal.

The cabin is in a secluded area, more or less in a canyon, so we will have to get an antenna up in a tree and see how it goes!

We are usually too busy fishing to watch TV but it's nice when the rain is falling ; )

Gatoviejo: It is also frustrating when your guide data shows one thing for ch 8-1 and the station is showing something completely different. I have D* and this happens quite often, so it may be a D* problem or a station problem, not sure.

Hopefully when they make the switch on the 12th it will correct things.

We jump into our time machines and go back to the time before KTSC was assimilated by RMPBS. Back then, they used to have the best HD quality you could get locally because they broadcast the full un-subchannelled national PBS feed. Alas, those days are gone. I read on the RMPBS site that they hope to have some sort of HD in July or so. For now, there is no HD.

*sigh* Yup, those were the days. I have a feeling that we won't ever get to see the full HD potential of PBS programming from RMBPS because they will insist on transmitting SD channels thus starving the HD channel of bandwidth. I wonder if we could mount a campaign in southern Colorado to wrest control of KTSC from the "evil empire" and return it to its former quality. :D

^^^ yeah, I'd sign that petition....

It's too darn bad - PBS was the absolute best for PQ and content in those days. Now RMPBS is all borked up. when it did work we only got HD during prime time.

... and of course, I missed 'Great performances' last night due to missing guide data.:mad:

... and of course, I missed 'Great performances' last night due to missing guide data.:mad:

I' ve tended to give up on programming guides. Though the one used with ReplayTV has been fairly reliable over the years. If there is something I REALLY want to catch, I'll just manually program the start/end times, channel, format, etc. I know, I know - that defeats the purpose of the programming guide, but at least I won't miss the program unless there is a power outage or transmission problems. :D

I wonder if we could mount a campaign in southern Colorado to wrest control of KTSC from the "evil empire" and return it to its former quality. :D

Well, I have a pitchfork but I've never been able to get a torch to work like they do in the movies. I think they have integrated gas cartridges or something.

I've got a question about Comcast here in the Springs. I just got my first HDTV today and I have Comcast with the Dual Tuner DVR. I see the high-def local channels are up in the 700's as well as ESPNHD but what about other broadcasts? Like on USA right now it's showing Casino Royal and in the tv guide it says "HD" next to the name(as it does on a lot of programs) but when I view the program in 16:9 mode on my tv it still has the black bars on the sides and in Zoom mode it still doesn't fit the screen. But if I go up to the FoxHD channel in the 700's it fills the whole screen. Am I missing something here? I guess I had assumed that everything that said HD on it in the channel guide would fill the screen in 16:9 mode.

I've got a question about Comcast here in the Springs. I just got my first HDTV today and I have Comcast with the Dual Tuner DVR. I see the high-def local channels are up in the 700's as well as ESPNHD but what about other broadcasts? Like on USA right now it's showing Casino Royal and in the tv guide it says "HD" next to the name(as it does on a lot of programs) but when I view the program in 16:9 mode on my tv it still has the black bars on the sides and in Zoom mode it still doesn't fit the screen. But if I go up to the FoxHD channel in the 700's it fills the whole screen. Am I missing something here? I guess I had assumed that everything that said HD on it in the channel guide would fill the screen in 16:9 mode.

I just recorded Casino Royale on USA and it was in HD (16:9) on Dish Network. I don't know Concast's lineup, but do you have both HD and SD channels for each network and maybe just tuned in the SD? I rarely see anything on USA that's not HD.

Nevermind, for some reason they put the HD versions of these after all the HD movie channels. So when I saw the local channels and ESPNHD followed by a whole slew of paid HD channels I assumed there weren't anymore free HD channels. Just took scrolling through another 30 channels that I don't get to find the ones I do get.

Last night (around 7:30 pm) I locked on (barely) to a KTSC DTV transmission of RF channel 8. I thought they weren't going to make that transition until June 12th? Was that just a test, or are they still transmitting on RF8? Are they transmitting on both frequencies (RF8 and RF26)?

Last night (around 7:30 pm) I locked on (barely) to a KTSC DTV transmission of RF channel 8. I thought they weren't going to make that transition until June 12th? Was that just a test, or are they still transmitting on RF8? Are they transmitting on both frequencies (RF8 and RF26)?

They are transmitting on frequency 8. My BTV program is geared to 8 for digital and I just checked it and it's now showing the digital channels which haven't been there for a couple of weeks. They must still be transmitting on 26 also since I haven't had to rescan my TV or Media Center. Probably just testing everything to be ready by the 12th.

Last night (around 7:30 pm) I locked on (barely) to a KTSC DTV transmission of RF channel 8. I thought they weren't going to make that transition until June 12th? Was that just a test, or are they still transmitting on RF8? Are they transmitting on both frequencies (RF8 and RF26)?

Wow jsmar, are you getting the KTSC DTV signal in Fort Collins? If so, I'm impressed.
satcom

Wow jsmar, are you getting the KTSC DTV signal in Fort Collins? If so, I'm impressed.
satcom

Yes, I got it in Fort Collins. It was very broken up, i.e. I just barely got it. I've had more luck with KKTV, in that I have gotten a clear picture from them on occasion. However, it's possible I might do better with KTSC since they've only been sending DTV on VHF for a day. I did get a few packets from KRDO last week, but that wasn't enough to get any video, just enough to identify the station from the PSIP data.

Yes, I got it in Fort Collins. It was very broken up, i.e. I just barely got it. I've had more luck with KKTV, in that I have gotten a clear picture from them on occasion. However, it's possible I might do better with KTSC since they've only been sending DTV on VHF for a day. I did get a few packets from KRDO last week, but that wasn't enough to get any video, just enough to identify the station from the PSIP data.

What kind of antenna are you using - something suitable for deep fringe reception? How high is the antenna? I used to live on FCL near Harmony and College. What part of town are you in? Supposedly KTSC will be turning up their Ch 8 DTV signal from Cheyenne Mtn soon (tomorrow?). So you might see an improvement on KTSC too.
Cheers.

What kind of antenna are you using - something suitable for deep fringe reception? How high is the antenna? I used to live on FCL near Harmony and College. What part of town are you in? Supposedly KTSC will be turning up their Ch 8 DTV signal from Cheyenne Mtn soon (tomorrow?). So you might see an improvement on KTSC too.
Cheers.

I'm using a Channel Master 4228 for UHF, combined with an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for VHF. They are mounted on my chimney, about 25 feet off the ground. The CM 4228 is known for its deep fringe reception. The Y5-7-13 is a fairly small High VHF antenna (about 5 feet long), but it is doing a fairly good job for me. I felt it would be good enough to get KMGH and KUSA, and hopefully KBDI when they transition to RF13. I live in south west Fort Collins (near the intersection of Taft Hill Rd. and Harmony Rd.).

Speaking of the KBDI transition, I'm surprised to see them advertising that they will switch to RF13 at midnight tonight. I thought they had to wait for KRDO to turn off their analog signal first. Last I heard, KRDO wasn't going to turn off their analog service until sometime between 6AM and 12PM. I'd be curious to know if KBDI does wind up causing problems for anyone who is still watching KRDO's analog OTA signal tomorrow morning. I have to believe that KRDO is OK with this, because I can't imagine that KBDI would do this without coordinating with KRDO.

Looks like some analog stations didn't go down today. 30, 21, 57. I think 51 as well but it's a low power station. 57 is low power but it's already simulcast.

I just read that it is not until midnight tonight that they must do this.

30 and 57 are low-powered stations and thus are not required to drop analog this evening.

- Trip

Anyone else getting no signal from KOAA 5-1 or any PBS 8-1?

Anyone else getting no signal from KOAA 5-1 or any PBS 8-1?
They worked for me earlier this evening, but not now. I don't even get them via Dish.

They worked for me earlier this evening, but not now. I don't even get them via Dish.

I can't get them nor 48.1. I hope it wasn't some big lightning strike. Or maybe they turned off the wrong towers.

KOAA and KTSC working fine for me now.. is anyone else not getting 16x9 HD programming at all on KOAA though? Everything seems to be 4x3, even prime time which should be true HD... (It's a 1920x1080i feed, but all programming is seemingly 4x3)

30 and 57 are low-powered stations and thus are not required to drop analog this evening.

- Trip

That is just a waste of money now. People with high def sets aren't going to watch them. People with Standard Def sets and antenna will now watch with their converter boxes which don't pick up analog, and I doubt they will make a special setup for that. I really don't see anybody watching those analog stations now.

Looks like some analog stations didn't go down today. 30, 21, 57. I think 51 as well but it's a low power station. 57 is low power but it's already simulcast.

I was rescanning one of my TV's this morning and analog channels 21, 23, 30, 32, 38, 45, 51 and 57 are still going. 21 is supposed to go off in a couple of weeks. All it seems to be showing is DTV transition info.

What surprised me is that very early this morning it tuned in KBDI for 12.1, 12.2 and 12.3 very clearly, but now they are all pixelated and actually showing 11.3 in pieces. I've never gotten this channel before down here in Pueblo, so I was surprised that it tuned in at all.

48.1 is still down. Is there a web page to get status?

Watching Mystery this evening on Colo Spgs Comcast cable Ch8 (KTSC) and see an occaisional digital noise artifact (freezing, pixilation, dropped frame). I'm watching on my analog TV. Has anyone else noticed this or can offer an explanation? Could it be over compression by Comcast? Too many Ch 8 SD channels robbing HD data stream bits? Other thoughts?
Thanks

Watching Mystery this evening on Colo Spgs Comcast cable Ch8 (KTSC) and see an occaisional digital noise artifact (freezing, pixilation, dropped frame). I'm watching on my analog TV. Has anyone else noticed this or can offer an explanation? Could it be over compression by Comcast? Too many Ch 8 SD channels robbing HD data stream bits? Other thoughts?
Thanks

It's either Comcast or your equipment because there's nothing wrong with the OTA broadcast. In fact, even though it's all SD crap on KTSC, the PQ is better than it has been.

It's either Comcast or your equipment because there's nothing wrong with the OTA broadcast. In fact, even though it's all SD crap on KTSC, the PQ is better than it has been.

Lovely. Its probably Comcast since I have very simple analog equipment here (an old 13 inch TV). Guess I should go to the Comcast HD Quality Reduction thread and rant. :D

Actually there were a number of posts about ABC PQ over on that thread, particularly during the NBA finals. However, a lot of it appears related to something called Live Well that ABC adds in some markets as an SD channel (I think). Not being an NBA fan, I've no comments about NBA finals on KRDO. How did they look here in Colo Spgs for anyone that did watch?

Cheers

It's either Comcast or your equipment because there's nothing wrong with the OTA broadcast. In fact, even though it's all SD crap on KTSC, the PQ is better than it has been.

I get this all of the time with 8.3. I haven't tried watching it directly no my TV though. Just through my HD HomeRun's. I will try my TV to see if it produces different results.

Scott

Actually there were a number of posts about ABC PQ over on that thread, particularly during the NBA finals. However, a lot of it appears related to something called Live Well that ABC adds in some markets as an SD channel (I think). Not being an NBA fan, I've no comments about NBA finals on KRDO. How did they look here in Colo Spgs for anyone that did watch? Cheers

ABC's PQ is fine here. I heard about the Live Well in some major markets, especially Chicago. They advertised it as HD, but apparently it is either highly compressed or only SD. Anyway, the complaints were that it reduced the quality of the regular ABC HD feed. I don't think they'll even try that here since they're using one sub for Telemundo in SD which I assume would be more attractive in this market.

From what I understand (and I'm not an engineer), is that none of the stations can run more than one HD broadcast at a time without reducing quality. There's a lot of conjecture that the stations will try the same thing as the ABC Live Well and true HD will no longer exist. It's a real possibility if it comes down to a choice of money or pleasing viewers. We all know what the results of that choice would be.

I get this all of the time with 8.3. I haven't tried watching it directly no my TV though. Just through my HD HomeRun's. I will try my TV to see if it produces different results. Scott

I remember you mentioned that you watch 8.3 for "This Old House". Have you tried watching it on Hulu? I've been really surpised by the quality of the shows there. I use it to watch "Rescue Me" since I don't have FX on my DISH package and the quality is really good and the stream very stable. If it weren't for sports and the fact that I've got a great deal on my DISH package, I'd be very tempted to just go with OTA exclusively and use the internet for the rest.

They advertised it as HD, but apparently it is either highly compressed or only SD. Anyway, the complaints were that it reduced the quality of the regular ABC HD feed.

Yes, ABC is doing dual HD plus an SD. The LiveWell "HD" stream is usually compressed down to about 4-5 Mbps which looks horrible in 720p, and it takes bandwidth from the main HD, harming it as well.

From what I understand (and I'm not an engineer), is that none of the stations can run more than one HD broadcast at a time without reducing quality.

I've seen dual 720p with nothing else look okay (not fantastic), but anything beyond that usually looks pretty miserable.

- Trip

From what I understand (and I'm not an engineer), is that none of the stations can run more than one HD broadcast at a time without reducing quality. There's a lot of conjecture that the stations will try the same thing as the ABC Live Well and true HD will no longer exist. It's a real possibility if it comes down to a choice of money or pleasing viewers. We all know what the results of that choice would be.

No kidding, really? :D Why bother investing our hard earned $$$ in HD systems when there is no HD service? :mad:

No kidding, really? :D Why bother investing our hard earned $$$ in HD systems when there is no HD service? :mad:

Didn't mean to be an alarmist, but I have seen a lot of discussion about this, especially in the AVS forums. Even now, the locals aren't going out of their way to broadcast HD even when available. For instance, Fox shows reruns of Two and 1/2 Men from the last couple of years that were originally in HD but Fox only has the 4:3 SD with their distracting pillarbox. Cable/Satellite stations for the most part are showing OTA reruns in HD. Then look at KTSC with little or no HD at all. KKTV only shows Wheel and Jeopardy in SD when they are available in HD.

The most important service and biggest moneymaker for the locals is the news and yet the only one that has gone to HD is KRDO. And, before I forget, kudos to KRDO for their unobtrusive overlays for storm warnings - by far the best of any locals, especially the grossly overdone/obnoxious messages on KOAA. KOAA apparently has put someone in charge of their messages to specifically piss off their viewers - like NBC can afford to lose any more. At least we don't have the transition garbage cluttering the screens anymore.

I think some of it is affordabiltiy of equipment right now, so let's see if they improve now that the initial costs are leveling out.

I remember you mentioned that you watch 8.3 for "This Old House". Have you tried watching it on Hulu? I've been really surpised by the quality of the shows there. I use it to watch "Rescue Me" since I don't have FX on my DISH package and the quality is really good and the stream very stable. If it weren't for sports and the fact that I've got a great deal on my DISH package, I'd be very tempted to just go with OTA exclusively and use the internet for the rest.

I understand where you're coming from, but if it isn't truly turnkey via the remote, I won't be watching it. Good suggestion though.

Any thoughts why my 8.1 and 8.3 quality sucks compared to yours? I will have a hard time believing it's my antenna, unless you tell me my gain is too high for this station.

Scott

I understand where you're coming from, but if it isn't truly turnkey via the remote, I won't be watching it. Good suggestion though.

Any thoughts why my 8.1 and 8.3 quality sucks compared to yours? I will have a hard time believing it's my antenna, unless you tell me my gain is too high for this station.

Scott

I really don't watch 8.3 at all. I just checked it out when I saw the posts on here. 8.3 isn't as good as 8.1 or even 8.2, but I haven't seen a problem with any kind of breakup in signal. I can tolerate 8.1 or 2 on my HDTV's, but 8.3 is definitely only watchable on a smaller CRT. As far as your signal, I have no idea why some of you aren't getting the same results. It could be some kind of interference, but it's strange that it would only be isolated to KTSC when the towers are all in the same place. I don't know what kind of antennae you have - combo VHF/UHF or separate ones? I have an outdoor Radio Shack combo that works great. I guess I'm lucky and must be in just the right spot because I get great reception on all available channels and have for some time.

Didn't mean to be an alarmist, but I have seen a lot of discussion about this, especially in the AVS forums.

What threads have you been following? I've look at the Comcast HD Quality Reduction thread. Are there others you'd sugest?

Thanks

What threads have you been following? I've look at the Comcast HD Quality Reduction thread. Are there others you'd sugest?

Thanks

Can't think of any specific thread, but I've seen the same discussion a number of times while reading various posts. I also remember seeing the same train of thought in a blog or article on one of the tech sites. If you think about it, it's not a stretch when we're already seeing some indications that quality will take a back seat to the bottom line, but then that's nothing new. Remember, all of this was forced on the industry and they wouldn't have spent the money otherwise. If it was voluntary, we'd have had digital and HD 10 years ago. Our best hope is that improvements in technology will make it economically feasible for the locals to provide more HD and high quality. The other factor is the viewing public. While we see a lot of interest and criticism on these forums, we're only a very small segment. The average viewer just keeps tolerating anything the industry foists upon us in the way of service and cost, so until more people say enough to the lack of quality or the price of cable and satellite, it won't get any better.

KOAA is now teasing "a new look" for July. With the DTV transition and KOAA's move to RF 42 on Cheyenne Mtn, now redundant channel 30 in the Spgs. seems destined to go dark, IMO. Perhaps it may be redeployed to cover the loss area created in the southern part of the old analog 5 service area.

Anyway, would seem likely that the new logo will feature just a "5", not "5/30"

KOAA is now teasing "a new look" for July. With the DTV transition and KOAA's move to RF 42 on Cheyenne Mtn, now redundant channel 30 in the Spgs. seems destined to go dark, IMO. Perhaps it may be redeployed to cover the loss area created in the southern part of the old analog 5 service area.

Anyway, would seem likely that the new logo will feature just a "5", not "5/30"

I think all analog will go dark. The only ones really watching it now are the ignorant and poor who didn't call in to get a coupon. I wouldn't waste my advertisement dollars for that segment.

I think all analog will go dark. The only ones really watching it now are the ignorant and poor who didn't call in to get a coupon. I wouldn't waste my advertisement dollars for that segment.

I recall reading somewhere there may be an exemption for very low power NTSC transmissions in remote areas. I could be remembering it wrong though.

Scott

So when can we expect Conan in HD from KOAA? I'm getting tired of this in 4:3. Is this just KOAA or NBC? I thought they had Leno and Conan/Late night in HD, so why are we moving backwards with HD content. Guide data says it's HD. WTH?

So when can we expect Conan in HD from KOAA? I'm getting tired of this in 4:3. Is this just KOAA or NBC? I thought they had Leno and Conan/Late night in HD, so why are we moving backwards with HD content. Guide data says it's HD. WTH?

HD? You want HDTV? I think its all a myth. There won't be any HDTV we were told that so we'd go spend $$$ on new electronics. :D

Am I the only one who hasn't gotten any PBS reception since the digital conversion? I have received OTA digital on my HDTV (with ATSC tuner) for the past few years, but can't seem to tune in PBS since Friday the 12th.

Am I the only one who hasn't gotten any PBS reception since the digital conversion? I have received OTA digital on my HDTV (with ATSC tuner) for the past few years, but can't seem to tune in PBS since Friday the 12th.

Did you rescan for channels? PBS changed from frequency 26 to 8 on the 12th, and most tuners needed to be rescanned to pick up the new frequency.

Did you rescan for channels? PBS changed from frequency 26 to 8 on the 12th, and most tuners needed to be rescanned to pick up the new frequency.
Thanks for the response. I had used my TV's "add on channel search", but this time I ran the full "channel search" and it picked up the new PBS. Thanks again!

I recall reading somewhere there may be an exemption for very low power NTSC transmissions in remote areas. I could be remembering it wrong though.

Scott

LP's and CA's did not have to transition. Many will be following up later after the broadcasters have had time to absorb the losses on transitioning their full power stations.

So when can we expect Conan in HD from KOAA? I'm getting tired of this in 4:3. Is this just KOAA or NBC? I thought they had Leno and Conan/Late night in HD, so why are we moving backwards with HD content. Guide data says it's HD. WTH?

last i heard koaa said they had hardware issues and were waiting for replacement parts. i think koaa is just not willing to shell out the $$$ required to resolve the issue...

I'm on Comcast in Colorado Springs. I believe we have an 833 MHz bandwidth cable. RMBPS (Ch 8) has been having a lot of digital noise artifacts including: pixilation, frozen frames, black frames, and lost audio. It seems to happen about every couple of minutes and severity varies. I'm watching the channel on my old analog TV - which works fine for other channels as far as I can tell. I guess they are only transmitting SD on Ch 8.1, 8.2, and 8.3 from Cheyenne Mtn about 15 miles away from me. People watching Ch 8 OTA report signal quality is fine.

So I'm left with the assumption that Comcast is over compressing the signal. Is that a fair statement? Is there any place else in the transmission stream where quality could be degraded? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

This whole HDTV makes me a little :mad: From the sounds of posts, HD PQ is pathetic in our market. Compression and SD channels degrading true HD PQ. Hardly what was promised - really makes me want to go out and spend lots of $$$. Yeah, sure.

last i heard koaa said they had hardware issues and were waiting for replacement parts. i think koaa is just not willing to shell out the $$$ required to resolve the issue...



So do they get the Tonight show from some different feed where their equipment is broken? how can prime time still be in HD, but Conan is not?

So do they get the Tonight show from some different feed where their equipment is broken? how can prime time still be in HD, but Conan is not?

it's the difference between live and tape-delayed programming. if koaa passes along the network source, we get hd, if they must record it, we'll get the non-hd until they resolve their hardware issue.

KKTV-DT has applied to relocate from channel 10 to channel 49.

- Trip

I'm on Comcast in Colorado Springs. I believe we have an 833 MHz bandwidth cable. RMBPS (Ch 8) has been having a lot of digital noise artifacts including: pixilation, frozen frames, black frames, and lost audio. It seems to happen about every couple of minutes and severity varies. I'm watching the channel on my old analog TV - which works fine for other channels as far as I can tell. I guess they are only transmitting SD on Ch 8.1, 8.2, and 8.3 from Cheyenne Mtn about 15 miles away from me. People watching Ch 8 OTA report signal quality is fine.

So I'm left with the assumption that Comcast is over compressing the signal. Is that a fair statement?

I dont generally associate an over compressed of a signal with the artifacts you mention. Instead I think the compression really highlights itself in fast moving content where you start to pick up macro blocking artifacts that for lack of a better term just look a like blurry area in a square block pattern.

The artifacts you mention to me are more indicative of packet loss. If it happens very often, I would be asking for a tech to come out and do some signal quality test. It has work for a couple of people I know. Some of them had to have Comcast come out a couple of times before they got a tech wasnt there just to pass the buck and blame something else.

just my 2c. Hopefully others can give some input

The FCC issued a Notice of Proposed Rule Making regarding the proposed move of KKTV-DT from 10 to 49. There's now a 30 day comment period. Assuming no objections, the FCC will most likely approve the change after that time.

- Trip

The FCC issued a Notice of Proposed Rule Making regarding the proposed move of KKTV-DT from 10 to 49. There's now a 30 day comment period. Assuming no objections, the FCC will most likely approve the change after that time.

- Trip

Would that leave KTSC as the only VHF transmitter in the Colo Spgs market?

Can someone point me to a good thread that describes PC ATSC tuners and/or reviews? I'd like to add one to my computer for OTA reception/display, preferably one that can show data stream and/or signal diagnostics. Any thoughts on the Hauppage line? Thanks in advance for suggestions.

Can someone point me to a good thread that describes PC ATSC tuners and/or reviews? I'd like to add one to my computer for OTA reception/display, preferably one that can show data stream and/or signal diagnostics. Any thoughts on the Hauppage line? Thanks in advance for suggestions.

More info would help:
1. What program will you be using for recording/viewing?
2. What operating system are you using?
3. Do you want only ATSC or do you want cable or satellite capability also?
4. Is this for use with a PC you use for other things or a dedicated PVR?

The answers to these questions will get you a better answer or let someone point you in the right direction.

More info would help:
1. What program will you be using for recording/viewing?
2. What operating system are you using?
3. Do you want only ATSC or do you want cable or satellite capability also?
4. Is this for use with a PC you use for other things or a dedicated PVR?

The answers to these questions will get you a better answer or let someone point you in the right direction.

Hi lsilvest,
Thank you very much for the reply. I know so little about them I hadn't even thought of the right questions to ask. Should have been more clear that I was initially looking for a primer on using a computer to view video and eventually record (including OTA, cable, and/or satellite). At this point I don't think I can really record anything given the limited amount of HD space and age of the computer. For now, I'm really more interested in viewing OTA/possibly cable signals as well as capture some diagnostics. Along the lines of using the computer, can they be used with LCD TVs (i.e. as a video source)? By that I mean, if I had the right computer with a BluRay player drive and sufficient HD memory, could I:

a. Record programming OTA, off the cable and/or satellite on the computer (using it as a DVR) and replay it on an LCD TV? What type of interface does that require (cable and video card - something with an HDMI output I presume, or are there wireless options)? This probably requires an answer to your question #1 below too.
b. Use the computer with BluRay drive and appropriate video card to play DVDs and display them on an LCD TV?
c. Typically how much memory is needed for an hour's worth of HD programming assuming the full 19.2 Mbps data stream is used for HD and no compression is used in the recording process? Back of the envelope calculation suggests that 1 hour requires ~8.6 GB (19*3600/8). Does that seem close?

Now to answer your questions:

1. I don't know (showing my ignorance here). I suppose that's another area that needs some research. Are there good pairings of tuners and programs? BTW I would probably want a card not a USB tuner since, can you believe this, my computer still only has USB 1.1 ports (I told you my computer was old :D ) Hopefully an upgrade (and LCD TV - I only have a little analog on the cable right now) is in the cards later this year.
2. Operating system: Windows XP (home edition)
3. It would be cool to have OTA and cable inputs (right now I don't have satellite, but I'm leaning that way as a future option).
4. It would initially be a used on my old multiuse PC but in the future with a new computer ... ? Not sure.

Thanks again for all your thoughts and assistance. Again, if discussion on this topic is not appropriate for this thread and there is another one I should go to, please let me know.
Cheers.

Would that leave KTSC as the only VHF transmitter in the Colo Spgs market?

Yes.

- Trip

The FCC issued a Notice of Proposed Rule Making regarding the proposed move of KKTV-DT from 10 to 49. There's now a 30 day comment period. Assuming no objections, the FCC will most likely approve the change after that time.

- Trip

Do you have a link for this? I searched the FCC applications page and didn't find it.

http://www.rabbitears.info/chchg.php

That's on my website. Scroll down to KKTV and you'll find two links. The first is their Petition for Rule Making, which has all the technical data and whatnot. The second is the FCC's NPRM.

- Trip

Thx

Again, if discussion on this topic is not appropriate for this thread and there is another one I should go to, please let me know.
Cheers.

I'll try to give you a few basics to get started, and there is a section on AVS just for HTPC discussion (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26). There's also a thread for Windows 7 HTPC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111291).


If you have an older PC, analog may be the only thing you could record at this time, but I'd have to know you exact specs to determine the capabilities. To record and play HD, even Blu-ray, you really don't need the latest and greatest as far as cpu and video cards. I will preface some of my remarks with the fact that I haven't used an intel chip since the 486SX as I still consider AMD a much better option economically. A motherboard with on-board video such as an AMD 780 or 790 chipset is capable of playing HD, although a dedicated video card is always preferable. I will preface some of my remarks with the fact that I haven't used an intel chip since the 486SX as I still consider AMD a much better option economically. I have 3 systems (all AMD) that can record and play HD and Blu-Ray with no problem (although I just do OTA). The chips are AMD Dual Core 5000, 5200 and 6000. My main HTPC which is used only for recording and playing OTA is the 5000 with an ATI 2600 video card. I can be recording 3 programs and watching one pre-recorded with no problem. Recording really does not take a lot of processing power. On this system I use BeyondTV which does an excellent job of recording and playback. I have a system I put together with leftovers from builds and upgrades that I installed Windows 7 Beta on and have been very impressed with both the OS and Windows Media Center - In fact I just pre-ordered 2 copies which I will install on 2 of my 3 systems. I did not upgrade to Vista, but know that XP has been more successful for HTPC use, especially BTV. If you go for a new build or system, Windows 7 may be your best bet.

As for tuners, if you want all options, then the HD-PVR I understand is the only tuner that will work with them - and again, I don't know about it working with Windows 7. Hauppage is very popular, but I use both ATI and Avermedia with excellent results (again, only OTA). My cards will do cable, but only QAM which generally is only the local stations - I chose them because I didn't need more remotes and they were less expensive (I also have a Dish DVR for recording satellite). Others in this area may be able to tell you what Concast streams in QAM.

As for disc size, you are right about the 8GB per hour of HD, unless you use a program such as BTV that strips the streams resulting in a size of 5 to 6 GB. SD only takes about 1/6 of the space HD does.

As for connections, it all depends on your HDTV and what type of video output you have on your computer. HDMI is the new standard, but not the only answer. Component cables will give you just as good a picture, just bulkier and need separate audio. I have one system that I use VGA because my Nvidia card just won't properly display the screen on my LCD TV . Again, separate audio, but I have surround sound for all my systems anyway. So, I use HDMI, Component, and VGA, all with excellent results - good video and audio on all. My predjudice in video cards for HTPCs is ATI - they are easier to configure and size for the display - drawback is flakiness with drivers - but I'm not a game player.

Anyway, hope this helps, and the links above will give you more information. Remember, a lot of this is just my opinion, although based on experience. If Scott Lindner sees this he can probably help you more with the cable info.

Hi lsilvest,
Holy cow! Thanks for all the information and links. There sure is a lot of information to digest! Silly me, all I wanted was a tuner in my computer to view OTA :D
satcom

hello, I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on digital reception in Manitou Springs. i'm on the far west part of town, on the hillside, with lots of tall trees.

luckily, i am getting 8, 13, and 21 and subchannels with no problems. 5 and 11 though are not coming in at all for me. Well, i had 11 coming in once, but it disappeared after a day and I can't get it back.

When i look at my address at tvfool.com (tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618a1f5aa46392), it looks like 5 and 11 should be easier for me to pick up than 21. Aren't all of these channels broadcast from the same location at cheyenne mountain? i can't tell from the tvfool info what is different about these 2 channels that I can't pick up.

My antenna says it is 'optimized for UHF 14-51', however I am getting channel 8 fine. i am using Antenna Direct Clearstream 2 antenna (antennasdirect.com/C2-Clearstream-DTV-antenna.html). i have a PCT 2-way 12db amplifier, i think PCT-MA2-2P.

I got this antenna because of the low profile design, and have actually been using it successfully indoors until I moved to this spot in Manitou recently. I have tried positioning my antenna just about everywhere I can think of with no luck, inside, outside, on a pole on the roof, etc.

I suppose that next I should probably try a different antenna. Should I try one of those big roof top antennas with the boom and elements? Or would it be better to go for an omni-directional to try to catch some signal bouncing off the canyon walls and trees?

Does anyone have any other suggestions for me? Thanks in advance!

Mike in Manitou

Disclaimer: I'm not as expert as some here on this board with reception issues, but with that, first I'd take the amp out of the line. Your receiver may be getting overloaded. If that doesn't help, then think getting antenna outside

Re: KOAA, no surprise to see Channel 30 officially retired from active promotion. New 5 logo looks nice.

hi iowegian3, thanks for the suggestion.

so i tried removing the amp, and lost reception of 21. 8 & 13 still came in but with less signal strength.

today (with the amp) i tried a slightly taller mast on the roof and i was able to pick up a little channel 5, but it was extremely pixelated and choppy.

so I have gotten a little taste of 5 and 11, so I am feeling like it is possible. i'm not giving up yet! :)

Computer ate my first post, so here's a quick and dirty reply:

No surprise that you're getting KTSC-8 (actual ch. 8) and not KKTV-11 (actual 10). KTSC is putting considerably more power in your direction than KKTV, which is starting the process to ditch actual 10 for actual 49, noted up this thread a bit.

What doesn't make sense is that you're getting KXRM-21 (actual 22) but not KOAA-5 (actual 42). KOAA is the most powerful DT on UHF in the market; KXRM is the weakest.

You might want to pose a question on The Official AVS Antenna Topic (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623&page=327) about your Clearstream II experiences with KXRM on actual 22 and KOAA on actual 42. See what they say first before you take my advice: Buy one of the smaller of the Winegard HD 7690 series antennas. (and buy Iowegian!) If not that, remember that the longest element perpendicular to the boom doesn't need to be longer than 3 ft.

BTW: KOAA is still ID-ing at top of hour K30AA and K19DY (Canon City) in wee small letters under the new "5" logo. Guess there's still analog NBC for the laggards that can see Cheyenne Mtn at least for the near future.

hmmm interesting... thanks for the info iowegian3! i will check out your suggestions and see if the antenna xperts have any thoughts. thanks!

I've been recording the repeats of 2 1/2 Men on Fox. They air at 6:00PM and 10:PM - different episodes. I'm recording them with Windows 7 Media Center. In playback a couple of times, the 6:00PM show has been cut off and the missing portion is showing up at the beginning of the 10:00PM showing. Could there could be that strange a quirk in Media Center (then again it's Microsoft) or is KXRM is screwing up the feed?

I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed this while watching live or even recording the show with different software?

If anyone with a Tivo has not noticed, Speed TV in HD now seems to be available on COMCAST, but Tivo does not yet have it in the guide. I have contacted Speed to correct the issue.

HD looks amazing compared to the crappy quality on 55.

If anyone with a Tivo has not noticed, Speed TV in HD now seems to be available on COMCAST, but Tivo does not yet have it in the guide. I have contacted Speed to correct the issue.

HD looks amazing compared to the crappy quality on 55.

MJH, to report a missing channel, check out this (http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html) page on tivo.com or this (http://www.zap2it.com/services/site/zap-feedback,0,6935396.story) page on Zap2It.

I already reported it. It might take them a bit to fix it though :) Thanks for the info though!

Did Comcast move the in-the-clear HD channels again? Up until several days ago, I was getting NBC in HD on 105-1 (with just the cable - no box); today it says "Scrambled Video". Usually, when this has happened in the past, it was because Comcast re-aligned the in-the-clear channels.

Hey all, I was wondering if anyone had any idea why I stopped receiving KTSC 8-1 OTA a month or two ago. I figured they were just having an issue but its been gone for so long now, I have to wonder if something is wrong on my end. I get ALL the other HD channels just fine and at good strength, so I don't get why just the 8-X channels stopped working? I used to get them for the last year OTA just fine. I have a high powered antenna in my attic professionally installed.

Hey all, I was wondering if anyone had any idea why I stopped receiving KTSC 8-1 OTA a month or two ago. I figured they were just having an issue but its been gone for so long now, I have to wonder if something is wrong on my end. I get ALL the other HD channels just fine and at good strength, so I don't get why just the 8-X channels stopped working? I used to get them for the last year OTA just fine. I have a high powered antenna in my attic professionally installed.

Where abouts do you live? Near Cheyenne Mtn? Pueblo? Elsewhere? You can post a note and ask on the RMPBS web site at this link:

http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/434?CFID=9634758&CFTOKEN=14435891

They are usually pretty responsive. Alternatively, you can call KTSC in Pueblo and ask to speak to the chief engineer. Good luck. BTW, no problem on the cable.
Cheers

Where abouts do you live? Near Cheyenne Mtn? Pueblo? Elsewhere? You can post a note and ask on the RMPBS web site at this link:

http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/434?CFID=9634758&CFTOKEN=14435891

They are usually pretty responsive. Alternatively, you can call KTSC in Pueblo and ask to speak to the chief engineer. Good luck. BTW, no problem on the cable.
Cheers
Update, I just realized I can get 8-2 and 8-3, but not 8-1. I live in Monument.

UPDATE AGAIN: Fixed my issue by removing all settings on OTA receiver and setting it up again from scratch. No idea why that made any difference, but glad it did. Had to do it on two receivers.

Update, I just realized I can get 8-2 and 8-3, but not 8-1. I live in Monument.

UPDATE AGAIN: Fixed my issue by removing all settings on OTA receiver and setting it up again from scratch. No idea why that made any difference, but glad it did. Had to do it on two receivers.

I have an idea why. I had the same problem and I knew why I had the problem, and I knew the rescan for channels would fix it. Channel 8 has been moving around their channels through the digital transition. Unlike analog broadcast, the digital channel numbers do not represent the real channel they are on. Your TV had stale information. It was looking for channel 8 the last time you programmed it in and they moved it since then. Make sense?

It would be nice if our TVs were programmed to detect that. It is possible, and it's possible we wouldn't need to know about the moving around at all.

Scott

I have an idea why. I had the same problem and I knew why I had the problem, and I knew the rescan for channels would fix it. Channel 8 has been moving around their channels through the digital transition. Unlike analog broadcast, the digital channel numbers do not represent the real channel they are on. Your TV had stale information. It was looking for channel 8 the last time you programmed it in and they moved it since then. Make sense?

It would be nice if our TVs were programmed to detect that. It is possible, and it's possible we wouldn't need to know about the moving around at all.

Scott

Yeah that's what I figured too. I wonder if some of these stations realize they lose all their viewers each time they do that.

Yeah that's what I figured too. I wonder if some of these stations realize they lose all their viewers each time they do that.

I believe they do know, and I also believe there are many people that read this very forum that sometimes know the technology better than the technicians working for the stations. No offense intended, but sometimes that's how it works. I don't remember where I read it, but a technician clearly stated they didn't completely understand everything they were doing when making changes.

Scott

Has anyone heard anything about Comcast elminating analog service (expanded basic) and converting everything over to digital? Apparently this is happening at other franchises around the country. If you did nothing, you would only recieve local and the Government/Public access channels. I guess Comcast is distributing basic Digital to Analog converter boxes as well as full up converter boxes that provide a program guide, PPV, and onDemand. This will return the expanded basic service as well as add some other digital channels. All programming would be SD. HD (as much as Comcast compression algorithms allow :mad: ) requires an HD TV with purchase of an HD service package. Anyway, is there any news about this floating around?

Thanks

Has anyone heard anything about Comcast elminating analog service (expanded basic) and converting everything over to digital? Apparently this is happening at other franchises around the country. If you did nothing, you would only recieve local and the Government/Public access channels. I guess Comcast is distributing basic Digital to Analog converter boxes as well as full up converter boxes that provide a program guide, PPV, and onDemand. This will return the expanded basic service as well as add some other digital channels. All programming would be SD. HD (as much as Comcast compression algorithms allow :mad: ) requires an HD TV with purchase of an HD service package. Anyway, is there any news about this floating around?

Thanks

Google - Comcast Project Calvary (Lots of info, been around for awhile now)

It does not eliminate expanded basic, only converts the analog channels to digital. You will still receive the same level of service, no extras as you say.
This will allow more digital (SD and HD) channels to be added as more bandwidth is freed up. Of course, that probably won't stop your whining about the HD. I doubt you can see the difference anyway.

BTW- Were you expecting HD without an HDTV or HD package??

Google - Comcast Project Calvary (Lots of info, been around for awhile now)

It does not eliminate expanded basic, only converts the analog channels to digital. You will still receive the same level of service, no extras as you say.
This will allow more digital (SD and HD) channels to be added as more bandwidth is freed up. Of course, that probably won't stop your whining about the HD. I doubt you can see the difference anyway.

BTW- Were you expecting HD without an HDTV or HD package??

Hi yaz,
Thanks for the Google Search tip. As you point out there is a fair amount of information out there. Unless I missed something in my bill or a flyer, I was not aware of the project. However, I can not find a rollout schedule. Apparently that's kept closely held.

Whining? I think of it as griping since I've got more than nodding aquaintance with telecommunications and understand many of its technical nuances. :D Its a matter of physics, RF coax cable can only carry so many bits per second and its considerably less than fiber's carrying potential. So to cram more channels down the pipe, something has to give which will of course be picture quality (PQ). Comcast's HD data compression is known to result in a noticable PQ reduction. This is a documented fact and is discussed extensively on the AVS Comcast HD Quality Reduction forum. See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008271&page=64

or the more general Comcast forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=424081&page=308

For Comcast to advertise the best or high quality HD PQ is disingenuous. Better than what? Certainly not FiOS. When they compress two (or even three) HD channels into the bandwidth of 1 HD channel, PQ will suffer. That can't be avoided. As you correctly state, PQ reduction and the amount people will live with is subjective at best. Some are more sensitive to it than others. The point is, I want HD quality if I'm paying for HD. And to answer your question, I fully expect to pay for HD as a premium service - not as part of Digital Starter, the SD equivalent of my analog Extended Basic.

Converting to Digital is a financial decision and in tune with the company's fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders. This is a proper business model and perfectly acceptable. I have no argument with this. By converting to digital, they reclaim signficant chunks of bandwidth (250-300 MHz is what I've seen). With this they can provide more channels and/or services (including HD) without making any significant modifications to the infrastructure, particularly the pedestal to customer premise portion. Clearly they avoid high infrastructure upgrade costs going this route. Again, I view this as a good business model and exploitation of technology. They are adding more channels to increase revenue, but doing little to improve HD PQ by their over compression scheme. Incidently, I fully expect FiOS operators to do the same thing - its a matter of economics. However, the greater bandwidth of fiber might result in less compression than over cable.

Bottom line, if I'm going to pay for HD, I would like to see the full potential of HD, not degraded to a level that some non-technical suit interested only in profit thinks I'll settle for. Face it, the only way we'll ever get to see the full potential of HD is with Blu-Ray or perhaps through an internet download. Oh BTW, better have a very fast connection for that. One hour of uncompressed HD programming with full audio is somewhere around 8GB. That would require ~11 hours to transfer across a T1 link (1.544 Mbps).

Ahhh, I feel much better now having griped again. ;)
Cheers.

Well, when FIOS comes to Colo Spgs, you let me know, I'll be in line right behind you.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see that in my lifetime or yours.......

Has anyone noticed that 8.1 has the aspect ratio wrong for several broadcasts? This would have started a couple of weeks ago. I have noticed that 16:9 is compressed into 4:3.

Scott

Lots of stations still play with the aspect ratio AND sound formats. Watching LOST last season it would be stuck in 2.1 mode after commercials until suddenly 5.1 switched back on. Colorado Springs really has some growing pains with the digital switch.

Did Comcast move the in-the-clear HD channels again? Up until several days ago, I was getting NBC in HD on 105-1 (with just the cable - no box); today it says "Scrambled Video". Usually, when this has happened in the past, it was because Comcast re-aligned the in-the-clear channels.

I checked my network channels last night and they are still in the same place.

Well, when FIOS comes to Colo Spgs, you let me know, I'll be in line right behind you.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see that in my lifetime or yours.......

It might come in yours Yaz, probably not mine. I'd venture to say I have a few years on you. :D One of the advantages of getting up there in years, you can be a cranky, crusty old codger. It's a rite of passage, almost like society expects it of you when reaching a certain age. LOL

Cheers

looks as though koaa finally got their act together, i watched conan and fallon last night in hd...

looks as though koaa finally got their act together, i watched conan and fallon last night in hd...

Good deal...it's about time

KKTV was approved for their move from channel 10 to channel 49 today.

- Trip

If KTSC hadn't moved from 26 to 8, we could all probably use much smaller UHF-only antennas.

If KTSC hadn't moved from 26 to 8, we could all probably use much smaller UHF-only antennas.
Who cares! They are not sending HD anyway and probably never will. They might extend the number of sub channels though. Once upon a time they had the best quality HD in town...

eddie_d_lopez
looks as though koaa finally got their act together, i watched conan and fallon last night in hd...
Good deal...it's about time

And then they went and screwed it up again last night. :mad:

yep, one trouble free night under their belt, then back to sd. remember when koaa advertised themselves as southern colorado's hd leader? i haven't seen that commercial recently. they know they are actually southern colorado's hd laggards...

Who cares! They are not sending HD anyway and probably never will. They might extend the number of sub channels though. Once upon a time they had the best quality HD in town...

That's a good point. I haven't tuned in PBS/KTSC in months and I was hoping/assuming that at least a few hours of their programming were back to HD, but apparently not.

KOAA can't give us HD late night.

KRDO can't pass through Dolby 5.1 surround sound or sign with DirecTV - and has no plans to. They brag about their HD news, which looks incredibly soft - looks like widescreen 480p last I checked.

KXRM switches to SD to put station ID info on the screen, doubling the volume level for a few seconds just to startle and annoy its viewers.

Everybody is multicasting to reduce the bandwidth and quality of their main signal.

Why are we such a cowtown?

Not too mention the fact that the crap they are mulitcasting is...well...in fact crap!! :confused:

TallGuy,
0.1 for KTSC? Ouch. Why so low? Do you think things will improve soon? I thought they were still in the process of transition and still had some work to do. Echoing an earlier comment regarding the fact KTSC is the only channel in the area still on VHF: :mad: I guess its partly a $$$ issue. UHF requires more power than VHF, which of course coasts more $$$.

Wonder if RMBPS would sell KTSC to a group of investors interested in making the channel a showcase for DTV :D

KRDO can't pass through Dolby 5.1 surround sound
Why are we such a cowtown?

You can't even qualify as a cowtown when you have a Sugarland concert without 5.1. Maybe I'll get lucky and get it on Palladia in better HD and great 5.1 audio.

Maybe I'll get lucky and get it on Palladia in better HD and great 5.1 audio.

"better HD" and not "true HD" (better being the operative word), eh lsilvest? :D

Is this the place to post about it? I am still waiting (and pissed) that KRDO and DirecTV have not been able to reach an agreement which will provide me with a HD signal for ABC. With college football season almost here I was dismayed to find that I still can't get a HD signal from DirecTV for KRDO.

I called KRDO today and spoke to the general manager Tim Larson. He told me that DirecTV didn't even start negotiations with KRDO until January 2009. He is not part of the negotiations and has no idea when/if they may conclude. Since KRDO HAS reached agreement with every other provider in Colorado Springs (Dish, Comcast, etc..) it can only be about money. DirecTV must pay KRDO a fee to broadcast their signal. Tim was very nice, and forthcoming, but said there is nothing HE can do.

I then called DirecTV and explained my situation: I live in the Springs and want HD for ABC. I asked to be switched to Denver local. Nope. I was offered the chance to be switched to LA locals for ABC only via a waiver process but Tim at KRDO said they will never approve waivers. DirecTV would send KRDO a waiver request and if they approved it I could then get locals from LA for just ABC. I already knew this would never happened so no go. I then asked to speak to the customer Retention department.

Got a nice guy there and I explained the whole thing. He said there is nothing they can do for me about switching my locals. When I stated that I would then consider leaving DirecTV and going to Dish he offered me $20/month discount for the next 12 months. This was $10/month for my regular service and $10/month for my HD service for 12 months. That's $240 back in my pocket. He also offered free StarZ and Showtime for 3 months. I accepted this offer and will keep my fingers crossed that a contract will eventually be signed.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

Tom

Not a bad deal. You can get an indoor antenna for $10, so $230 profit's not bad. Have a hunch everyone on this forum with D* is reaching for their phones.

Not a bad deal. You can get an indoor antenna for $10, so $230 profit's not bad.

That's the way to do it. If you want series antenna coverage for bad weather days the worst you're in for is about $80 for a kickazz outdoor antenna. Since I switched from bunny ears to a good antenna I put in the attic I haven't had a single problem even during the worst of weather. Now if only the locals would stop telling me about bad weather that I clearly already know about I'd be really happy.

Thanks for posting your story. I think this is the right place for it.

Scott

Is this the place to post about it? I am still waiting (and pissed) that KRDO and DirecTV have not been able to reach an agreement which will provide me with a HD signal for ABC. With college football season almost here I was dismayed to find that I still can't get a HD signal from DirecTV for KRDO.

I called KRDO today and spoke to the general manager Tim Larson. He told me that DirecTV didn't even start negotiations with KRDO until January 2009. He is not part of the negotiations and has no idea when/if they may conclude. Since KRDO HAS reached agreement with every other provider in Colorado Springs (Dish, Comcast, etc..) it can only be about money. DirecTV must pay KRDO a fee to broadcast their signal. Tim was very nice, and forthcoming, but said there is nothing HE can do.

I then called DirecTV and explained my situation: I live in the Springs and want HD for ABC. I asked to be switched to Denver local. Nope. I was offered the chance to be switched to LA locals for ABC only via a waiver process but Tim at KRDO said they will never approve waivers. DirecTV would send KRDO a waiver request and if they approved it I could then get locals from LA for just ABC. I already knew this would never happened so no go. I then asked to speak to the customer Retention department.

Got a nice guy there and I explained the whole thing. He said there is nothing they can do for me about switching my locals. When I stated that I would then consider leaving DirecTV and going to Dish he offered me $20/month discount for the next 12 months. This was $10/month for my regular service and $10/month for my HD service for 12 months. That's $240 back in my pocket. He also offered free StarZ and Showtime for 3 months. I accepted this offer and will keep my fingers crossed that a contract will eventually be signed.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

Tom

Dude, they can't KNOWINGLY give you locals in another market. All you do is call and tell them that you have a second residence in Denver and that you've moved your equipment there. Ask to have your SERVICE address changed to that address but to keep your BILLING address in COS. Use the address of a REAL apartment building in Denver and make up a fictitious apartment number that no one has. It takes 2 minutes on the phone and you'll then have Denver locals. They don't CARE which market you receive locals in - they just can't KNOWINGLY give you locals for another market that you've admitted you don't live in. If you want COS locals as well, get an antenna and you'll have everything - including KRDO in HD. The Squareshooter SS-1000 (unamplified version) works perfectly from my house in Monument and looks as nice as anything out there. Alternatively, most indoor antennas work OK too.

Also, you need to use Denver as your service address as opposed to another market, as locals are typically broadcast in smaller spot-beams. Denver locals can be picked up in COS but not much further.

This works for both Dish & DirecTV and takes all of 2 minutes. I do this with Dish and I know someone else who does it with Direct. I thought that this "moving" trick was common knowledge. People have been doing it for a LONG time.

I have a situation going here.

I'm using a Hauppauge HVR-1600 tuner card in my PC (Dell XPS 410) with Comcast cable here in Pueblo.

It works great for HD except I don't get the ABC station (KRDO). I get NBC, CBS, PBS and Fox, but no ABC.

My TV software is WinTV with driver version 1.62.26028.0 driver date 1/28/2008 and I'm running Windows XP SP3.

Any way to fix this so I get ABC?

I have a situation going here.

I'm using a Hauppauge HVR-1600 tuner card in my PC (Dell XPS 410) with Comcast cable here in Pueblo.

It works great for HD except I don't get the ABC station (KRDO). I get NBC, CBS, PBS and Fox, but no ABC.

My TV software is WinTV with driver version 1.62.26028.0 driver date 1/28/2008 and I'm running Windows XP SP3.

Any way to fix this so I get ABC?

Are you getting KRDO HD on your cable box?

Have you checked to see if Concast changed the channel number (I've noticed a lot of problems with this on the SnapStream Forums)? If so, the WinTV guide may not have picked the change up yet.

There seems to be a lot of Concast customers on this thread, so hopefully some of them have HTPCs and can verify whether it's a Concast problem or something particular to your setup.

Are you getting KRDO HD on your cable box?

Have you checked to see if Concast changed the channel number (I've noticed a lot of problems with this on the SnapStream Forums)? If so, the WinTV guide may not have picked the change up yet.

There seems to be a lot of Concast customers on this thread, so hopefully some of them have HTPCs and can verify whether it's a Concast problem or something particular to your setup.

When I tune to the HD versions of NBC, CBS, PBS, and Fox on my cable box, I just get audio, no picture (we don't have the HD tier). I don't get the audio for ABC-KRDO. I never got KRDO-HD on my PC with the HVR-1600 or an AVerMedia card (AVer TV Combo PCIe). My sister gets KRDO-HD at her house, she's also on Comcast.

You're just running your cable straight to your tuners for QAM and bypassing the box, right? If that's the case, then maybe Concast isn't passing through KRDO in QAM, although I wouldn't know why other than that it's Concast (as you can tell, I'm not a fan). You might call them and ask if that's the case, or even ask KRDO if they know why. Like to help more, but I only record OTA HD, and glad not to have a middle man.

You're just running your cable straight to your tuners for QAM and bypassing the box, right? If that's the case, then maybe Concast isn't passing through KRDO in QAM, although I wouldn't know why other than that it's Concast (as you can tell, I'm not a fan). You might call them and ask if that's the case, or even ask KRDO if they know why. Like to help more, but I only record OTA HD, and glad not to have a middle man.

The cable goes into a splitter with one branch going to the box and to the TV (non-HD) and the other branch to the tuner in my PC.

Is this the place to post about it? I am still waiting (and pissed) that KRDO and DirecTV have not been able to reach an agreement which will provide me with a HD signal for ABC. With college football season almost here I was dismayed to find that I still can't get a HD signal from DirecTV for KRDO.

I called KRDO today and spoke to the general manager Tim Larson. He told me that DirecTV didn't even start negotiations with KRDO until January 2009. He is not part of the negotiations and has no idea when/if they may conclude. Since KRDO HAS reached agreement with every other provider in Colorado Springs (Dish, Comcast, etc..) it can only be about money. DirecTV must pay KRDO a fee to broadcast their signal. Tim was very nice, and forthcoming, but said there is nothing HE can do.

I then called DirecTV and explained my situation: I live in the Springs and want HD for ABC. I asked to be switched to Denver local. Nope. I was offered the chance to be switched to LA locals for ABC only via a waiver process but Tim at KRDO said they will never approve waivers. DirecTV would send KRDO a waiver request and if they approved it I could then get locals from LA for just ABC. I already knew this would never happened so no go. I then asked to speak to the customer Retention department.

Got a nice guy there and I explained the whole thing. He said there is nothing they can do for me about switching my locals. When I stated that I would then consider leaving DirecTV and going to Dish he offered me $20/month discount for the next 12 months. This was $10/month for my regular service and $10/month for my HD service for 12 months. That's $240 back in my pocket. He also offered free StarZ and Showtime for 3 months. I accepted this offer and will keep my fingers crossed that a contract will eventually be signed.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

Tom

It's not KRDO. It's their parent company, News-Press & Gazette Co. (http://www.npgco.com/npgco/)

Last time I checked, none of the local stations owned by NPG were carried by DirecTV in HD.

Their contact info is here (http://npg-inc.com/npgco/index.php?page=contact-us).

Anyone know if KKTV will have the Broncos in HD on Friday night?

Anyone know if KKTV will have the Broncos in HD on Friday night?

I hope so. Last year, when the Broncos were on NFL Network, they provided the HD feed to KKTV.

I hope so. Last year, when the Broncos were on NFL Network, they provided the HD feed to KKTV.

If it is they'll be sure to have the stupid weather thingy up there so we can know about the little trickle of ran way the heck out in Eastern Colorado, where noone there probably even gets KKTV

If it is they'll be sure to have the stupid weather thingy up there so we can know about the little trickle of ran way the heck out in Eastern Colorado, where noone there probably even gets KKTV

And they'll also screw themselves out of half of their ad revenue by covering up commercial breaks with weather alerts they don't need because there's already a crawl going, like Channel 13 has been doing during Millionaire.

Moving to The Springs this Fall.

This thread is a UTTER HORROR STORY for me. Right now I am living a generally pampered HD lifestyle in the Bay Area, CA. I am absolutely and without question allergic to anything I can't at the least convert up to 1080p/i. Just to give you a bit of background here: I purchase BD's like the average person pops Tic-Tacs (I will be shocked if I don't hit 1k by the January Move), have another 4k in DVD's (TV and Movies) and have spent more money on my Home Theater Gear than most people do on a new vehicle. Right now I live in an area that I can get just about anything I want within 15 minutes of my house. I am very big on Sight & Sound. I pretty much want for nothing but all the Secondary Pay Channels to become available in HD & an Anamorphic Copy of True Lies. I am pretty much a simple guy. That being said.... Everything I am reading about The Springs is leading to believe I am going to be an Alien walking into a Colorful Snow Globe. Which is by no means and attempt to disrespect my Future Surroundings or the "hopefully" good people there. (Keep in mind I am coming from California.) Simply put... I would love to know what I am moving into?

I can't seem to get a Comcast Channel Lineup so I am just going to ask: How many HD Channels are available out there? I have pretty much written off CW HD. But at least tell me FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, USA HD, FX HD, SYFY HD, AMC HD, TNT HD, A&E HD, ESPN HD & HBO, STARZ, CINEMAX, ENCORE & SHOWTIME are available.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Regards To All,

Your Future Neighbor

Moving to The Springs this Fall.

This thread is a UTTER HORROR STORY for me. Right now I am living a generally pampered HD lifestyle in the Bay Area, CA. I am absolutely and without question allergic to anything I can't at the least convert up to 1080p/i. Just to give you a bit of background here: I purchase BD's like the average person pops Tic-Tacs (I will be shocked if I don't hit 1k by the January Move), have another 4k in DVD's (TV and Movies) and have spent more money on my Home Theater Gear than most people do on a new vehicle. Right now I live in an area that I can get just about anything I want within 15 minutes of my house. I am very big on Sight & Sound. I pretty much want for nothing but all the Secondary Pay Channels to become available in HD & an Anamorphic Copy of True Lies. I am pretty much a simple guy. That being said.... Everything I am reading about The Springs is leading to believe I am going to be an Alien walking into a Colorful Snow Globe. Which is by no means and attempt to disrespect my Future Surroundings or the "hopefully" good people there. (Keep in mind I am coming from California.) Simply put... I would love to know what I am moving into?

I can't seem to get a Comcast Channel Lineup so I am just going to ask: How many HD Channels are available out there? I have pretty much written off CW HD. But at least tell me FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, USA HD, FX HD, SYFY HD, AMC HD, TNT HD, A&E HD, ESPN HD & HBO, STARZ, CINEMAX, ENCORE & SHOWTIME are available.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Regards To All,

Your Future Neighbor

I needed some Sunday Ticket, so I switched from Comcast to D* a while back, but you could check out http://www.comcast.net/tv/tv-listings/

Put in a COS zip code (80918 for example) and look at the 7xx channels.

Just remember that you're moving from the #6 DMA to #91 :)

Just remember that you're moving from the #6 DMA to #91 :)

Whew. Less Encore HD & CW it looks fine. I can always download the 1080/720 files of CW shows and play them off my Oppo BD. Worst coming to worst. We didn't get CW HD out here until 2 years ago. And it didn't start sending the full 5.1 signal till this January. So not having it again will be like old times. I got use to it. I am a Baseball Guy. So the loss of Football means little or nothing to me. I don't think I have watched more than 5 minutes of Football accidentally or otherwise in the last 10 years. You guys have MLB TV HD. We don't out here. It also appears that I won't have to worry about MLB Extra Innings Package next year either. Which makes the loss of WGN much easier to swallow. (I am a long suffering Cubs Fan) All and all not the disaster I was worried about. Thanks for the info. :D

Hello. Can anyone who can get Palladia HD see if you get frequent audio/video breakup?

Hello. Can anyone who can get Palladia HD see if you get frequent audio/video breakup?

Who's your carrier. I have Dish and haven't noticed a problem on it (HD). I always record the programs and it's not an everyday thing (only go for country and old time rock). I just recorded a John Fogerty concert and it was fine. In fact, I just watched Crossroads (Maroon5/Sara Evans) with no problem. The only station I've had a problem with is very frequent dropouts on ESPN/ESPN2 HD for live broadcasts. I've always like Palladia - has great HD and 5.1 both.

Moving to The Springs this Fall.

Why are you moving here from CA? I ask because I moved here from San Diego.

Cheers,
Scott

Moving to The Springs this Fall.
But at least tell me FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, USA HD, FX HD, SYFY HD, AMC HD, TNT HD, A&E HD, ESPN HD & HBO, STARZ, CINEMAX, ENCORE & SHOWTIME are available.
Many of these, but not all, are available on Comcast. I lived in the Bay Area for 6 years and trust me when I tell the you this is one of the best places to live in the country. Though it might take you a little time to realize it.
There is plenty of HD to be had; that's why God made Blu-ray.

Best of luck on the move.

My carrier is Comcast, sorry! Yeah, Comcast is supposed to show up tomorrow and look at the Palladia channel issue. I assumed everyone would have it given that other channels work fine, and I have the problem on both of my Tivo boxes.

I think I will disconnect Tivo in the bedroom system, and go direct to the TV to see if it has a full QAM tuner, and see if the breakups still happen.

I lived in the Bay Area for 6 years and trust me when I tell the you this is one of the best places to live in the country. Though it might take you a little time to realize it.
There is plenty of HD to be had; that's why God made Blu-ray.

Best of luck on the move.

I echo jlachanc comments. My family goes back generations in CA. I grew up in the heart of Silicon Valley watching it change from orchards to Hi tech in the 60s and 70s. Grandma lived in SF on social security alone if you can believe that! Wish it was like that now, but alas it isn't. All in all Colo Spgs is a pretty good place to live. You'll enjoy it.
Cheers

...trust me when I tell the you this is one of the best places to live in the country. Though it might take you a little time to realize it.

SHHHHHH!!!!!!! We want it to stay that way.

So I have lots of audio/video breakup on Palladia. Every minute. Comcast came out and claimed it was Tivo. Both my Series 3 and Tivo HD do it.

Does anyone have this problem with Palladia/Tivo?

I think I will disconnect Tivo in the bedroom system, and go direct to the TV to see if it has a full QAM tuner, and see if the breakups still happen.

Did going cable direct to the TV (bypassing the Tivo) have any affect? That is, did you still see the disruption with a direct connection?

LOL@Scott's comment: "SHHHHHH!!!!!!! We want it to stay that way." We used to say the same thing when everyone moved to CA. Whadya gonna do? :D

LOL@Scott's comment: "SHHHHHH!!!!!!! We want it to stay that way." We used to say the same thing when everyone moved to CA. Whadya gonna do? :D

I said the same when I lived in CA, now I live here. I fear it's gonna repeat and I'll end up in the middle of Kansas trying to escape it. :confused:

Scott

Did going cable direct to the TV (bypassing the Tivo) have any affect? That is, did you still see the disruption with a direct connection?

LOL@Scott's comment: "SHHHHHH!!!!!!! We want it to stay that way." We used to say the same thing when everyone moved to CA. Whadya gonna do? :D

I was not able to find it. I think maybe Palladia is not in the clear, so a cable card is needed.

Is anybody else in the Pueblo/Colorado Springs area having trouble getting KKTV today? I can't receive it either over the air or on Comcast cable in Pueblo. I went to watch The Price Is Right on my PC this morning and got "No Signal". The main KKTV channel is gone, but their sub-channels come in fine. Fox KXRM is also missing.

This isn't specific to CS, of course, but it seems worth considering for those of you who rely on unencrypted QAM over cable:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=637

:eek:

This isn't specific to CS, of course, but it seems worth considering for those of you who rely on unencrypted QAM over cable:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=637

:eek:

Ugh.. that just blows. Even more reason why I'll never pay for cable service. I have been thinking about it, but not with this limitation. If I can use my HTPC, there's no way I'm paying for something I can't even watch on my schedule.

Who is this even targetting anyway? Are they worried about the small percentage of people that enjoy being nerds like us? We can't be cutting into the bottom line at all.

Scott

This isn't specific to CS, of course, but it seems worth considering for those of you who rely on unencrypted QAM over cable:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=637

:eek:

One thing I'm not clear about, does the coming COMCAST Cavalry rollout and deployment of DTA boxes imply that QAM tuners on the HDTV itself will no longer be good? In other words, whether you use a "full up" set-top box or its cheaper DTA cousin, you will have to use them to change channels (particularly if they encrypt). The TV will remain on "Ch 3 or Ch 4".

Its getting to the point where a return to the Big Ugly C/Ku-Band Dish and OTA are looking better and better (if you can still go that route). Imagine, receiving the same true HD programming cable & DTH satellite companies get before they compress it to death. Not only that, perhaps you ala carte programming is possible. Unfortunately I live in an Apt, so I'm stuck with BluRay, Internet, cable, OTH, and/or satellite. *sigh*

Anyway, if anyone knows the answer to the above, that would be super. BTW I'm definitely lo tech here (at least for now :D ). I have a 13 in portable analog TV that's been around for 20+ years and extended basic. Still works like a champ. Not looking forward to the DTA box and digital conversion of extended basic analog service, especially if it means higher prices. LOL
Cheers

One thing I'm not clear about, does the coming COMCAST Cavalry rollout and deployment of DTA boxes imply that QAM tuners on the HDTV itself will no longer be good?

ClearQAM would still work, but the FCC ruling allows the cable companies to finally encrypt everything but the local channels (although there have been reports that some cable companies already encrypt those, in some areas, as well). But reducing the viability of ClearQAM tuners to only the local channels (especially here and in most other smaller DMAs where there are only incompetent affiliates and no actual O&Os - Owned and Operated (network) channels), one's best bet may be to obtain one's programming from 'internet sources' - either streamed, or ... not ;)

Basically 'free' access to 'basic cable' digital channels will disappear from anything connected to a cable company line, other than the boxes they supply.

It's possible that not all the cable companies will go (quickly) to encrypting everything non-local, but given their record, especially Comcast, we know they intend to squeeze every cent out of their captive customers.

Might as well pour on more bad news regarding Concast:
Check this out (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/28/AR2009082803271.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

The real fault is with all municipalities that had no foresight years ago when awarding the cable contracts and exercise little control to this day. I remember when the first contracts were being issued, a lot of technologically knowledgeable people advocated local government control of conduit and putting the programming up for bids. I think a combination of the usual ignorance of local politician and the greasing of the right palms throughout the country deterred any local control and to this day no local governments will take the initiative to put some clamps on Concast, Time Warner, etc. Not that I'm a fan of government enterprises, but when the alternative is granting uncontrolled monopolies it's which is the least bitter pill to swallow.

Some of you may also remember the big sales pitch for cable originally to justify the cost (which by today's standards was somewhat reasonable): "No Advertising". That was a short-lived concept once they had a stranglehold.

aal and lsilvest,
Thanks for the reply and "good" news (if you own Comcast stock sheesh) respectively. Confirms my suspicion we, the consumers, will be screwed as usual. :( Any possibility we can initiate a prememptive strike though? Can we work with the city (Colo Spgs anyway) to tighten up the rules to prevent encription of extended basic (or Digital Starter)? I wonder who maintains the franchise agreement for the city. I'd like to get a copy and read it. Also, perhaps there are some tight franchise agreements around the country that could be looked at as models. However, I get the feeling that Comcast will lean on the city and threaten moving their call center if the city gets too aggressive. Like lsilvest says, we have weak government that rolls over for any commercial want - citizen inputs and our best interests be damned. That's the hallmark of Colo Spgs government, always aiding and abetting corporate greed whether its developers, cable companies, retail outlets, businesses etc. Forget the little guy. :mad:

Could something be done at the state level? Anyone know of any technologically savvy representative in the state house that would sponsor legislation that specifically and explicitly bans encryption of basic cable service in CO? And I'm not talking just the local and Government channels. While we're at it, how about ala carte service and true HD programming (i.e. full bandwidth, not compressed)? But I suppose it would go to court and lose based on FCC permissions previously granted that supercede state regulation. If only we had FiOS ... Oh well, not in my lifetime here.

Don't get me wrong, I know the cable companies have to make a buck. For once I would like to see a mutually agreeable situation that satisfies my needs too and not just have it a one-way street. Cable service should after all be regulated in a way that provides citizens/consumers/taxpayers the best technical value and not just guarantee companies the greatest investment return. Remember, they are making use of public rights of way and and in today's technical environment they really are a monopoly (the court case decision not withstanding).

OK enough griping this morning - got things to do and besides I've resigned myself to another corporate assault on my wallet. One of these days though, the well will run dry. :D
Cheers

Satcom,

Maybe the approach isn't to lean on Comcast or the local government. If Comcast did pull work out of the city, that would be bad for you, even if you aren't an employee. Gotta pick the right battles. In this case, I wonder if the best approach is to lean on the satellite companies to do what you are looking for. That way Comcast will never be threatened, and never in a position to threaten. No loss, but you're going after what you want and that is competition and fair use. Right?

Scott

Satcom,

Maybe the approach isn't to lean on Comcast or the local government. If Comcast did pull work out of the city, that would be bad for you, even if you aren't an employee. Gotta pick the right battles. In this case, I wonder if the best approach is to lean on the satellite companies to do what you are looking for. That way Comcast will never be threatened, and never in a position to threaten. No loss, but you're going after what you want and that is competition and fair use. Right?

Scott

Oooh, good idea Scott. Hadn't thought of that approach. And I absolutely agree that loss of jobs is not a good thing for anyone. Now if I could just find the right sympathetic VP in a satellite TV company with the power to make and implement the decision ... :D
Cheers

Does anybody else pretty much completely lose KKTV even the weather gets even just a little bad?
I live near Peterson Rd and Palmer Park and it never fails, weather gets cloudy, rainy etc and KKTV is gone...all other channels stay fine though.

I went from cable to OTA on my PC, I now get KOAA (NBC), KKTV (CBS), KTSC (PBS), and KXRM (FOX), but I don't get KRDO (ABC). I'm in Pueblo, BTW. Awhile ago, I was watching the NBC broadcast of Ted Kennedy's burial on KOAA and I noticed that they can now do weather alert crawl without switching from HD to SD. Nice.

I went from cable to OTA on my PC, I now get KOAA (NBC), KKTV (CBS), KTSC (PBS), and KXRM (FOX), but I don't get KRDO (ABC). I'm in Pueblo, BTW. Awhile ago, I was watching the NBC broadcast of Ted Kennedy's burial on KOAA and I noticed that they can now do weather alert crawl without switching from HD to SD. Nice.

Where in Pueblo are you? I'm in Pueblo West and have no problem getting KRDO. In fact, it's always had a stronger signal than KKTV or KXRM. What kind of antenna and tuner do you have? Do you have another tuner that you can try?

Where in Pueblo are you? I'm in Pueblo West and have no problem getting KRDO. In fact, it's always had a stronger signal than KKTV or KXRM. What kind of antenna and tuner do you have? Do you have another tuner that you can try?

I'm on the south side, near the fairgrounds. My tuner is a Hauppauge HVR-1600. I don't know what kind of antenna, it's in the attic where it's been for like 50 years. The antenna probably needs to be adjusted to point at Cheyenne Mountain instead of Baculite Mesa. The channels I do get come in real good. My tuner actually gets enough signal to get station IDs from KRDO's sub-channels, but no picture or sound, so I have those unchecked in the tuner software.

If you want to redirect the antenna, go to antennaweb.org and get the exact direction. Mine is 336 degrees, so yours shouldn't be much different. Your antenna is perfect for this area since KKTV and KTSC are both VHF frequencies, and your 1600 shouldn't be the problem. I don't know if you have your signal split, but you may want to try an amplifier. I use a ChannelMaster 34db mast amp on mine, but I've got the signal split 7 times.

Does anybody else pretty much completely lose KKTV even the weather gets even just a little bad?
I live near Peterson Rd and Palmer Park and it never fails, weather gets cloudy, rainy etc and KKTV is gone...all other channels stay fine though.

KKTV is a bit spotty for me. Seems to drop out every once in awhile from up here in Monument with my small Square Shooter antenna. No problems with any of the other stations (I don't watch PBS which is the only other VHF station).

Speaking of which, when is KKTV switching to UHF? That should help quite a bit. Do they have an ETA?

KKTV is a bit spotty for me. Seems to drop out every once in awhile from up here in Monument with my small Square Shooter antenna. No problems with any of the other stations (I don't watch PBS which is the only other VHF station).

Speaking of which, when is KKTV switching to UHF? That should help quite a bit. Do they have an ETA?

I'm not sure it's just weather related. I can't tell for sure since I rarely watch anything live other than sports. One of the only things I've even seen this summer was the Neil Diamond concert and it had a lot of dropouts/lockup near the end. This has just started recently and they've been broadcasting DTV on VHF for a few years with no weather problems and I've never had weather related problems with KTSC either. I might give them a call tomorrow and find out if there's a transmission problem.

Its getting to the point where a return to the Big Ugly C/Ku-Band Dish and OTA are looking better and better (if you can still go that route). Imagine, receiving the same true HD programming cable & DTH satellite companies get before they compress it to death.


Funny you you should say that right now. I have just put together a system with a Ku band dish (36") and a USB satellite tuner. PBS broadcasts the full, uncompressed HD feed from AMC-21 and it is at least as good as it used to be in the pre-RMPBS days.

Funny you you should say that right now. I have just put together a system with a Ku band dish (36") and a USB satellite tuner. PBS broadcasts the full, uncompressed HD feed from AMC-21 and it is at least as good as it used to be in the pre-RMPBS days.

Really! I'm impressed. So you are getting the full HD signal from AMC-21. Is it encrypted? Do you get all the PBS feeds on the satellite? Do you pay a service provider a monthly or annual fee? If so is it part of a package? Do you get any other channels? I'm not adverse to paying monthly or annual fees for the channels I want (not part of a package). The 36 in Ku-Band antenna is attractive since its less likely to get neighbors worked up (compared to C-Band). Gain should be around 38 dB and beamwidth ~1.7 deg. Sure, there will be those days of rain attenuation on Ku-Band, but statistically that's not common around here (particularly in winter). I have rain fade prediction climatology information at work. Have to check it out to see what the probablility of fade is here and how many minutes/year on average that translates to.

According to my satellite tool, look angles for AMC-21 (124.8 W, inclination 0.04 deg) are:

Colo Spgs: 210.2 deg Az, 40.5 deg El
Pueblo: 210.8 deg Az, 40.9 deg El.

AMC-21 website shows we are on the 49 EIRP contour. Sweet!

Wonder what other channels are out there on Ku-Band. Hmmm. :D

Nice work Gato.
Cheers

Enjoy them while they last. Whenever they get around to implementing the NGIS, the PBS National feeds will become redundant. IIRC, they'll be phasing them out at some point...

- Trip

Really! I'm impressed. So you are getting the full HD signal from AMC-21. Is it encrypted? Do you get all the PBS feeds on the satellite? Do you pay a service provider a monthly or annual fee? If so is it part of a package? Do you get any other channels?

Wonder what other channels are out there on Ku-Band. Hmmm. :D

Nice work Gato.
Cheers

No encryption. This is an FTA / DVB broadcast. Check out lyngsat or satelliteguys for more info. There is not really a lot of unencrypted HD out there; PBS has it because the P means Public.

Enjoy them while they last....

I think we all know that no signal source lasts forever. When they succeed in making TV watching intolerable then that will cure my addiction.

KKTV is a bit spotty for me. Seems to drop out every once in awhile from up here in Monument with my small Square Shooter antenna. No problems with any of the other stations (I don't watch PBS which is the only other VHF station).

Speaking of which, when is KKTV switching to UHF? That should help quite a bit. Do they have an ETA?

I just spoke to one of their engineers. He said the switch to UHF is approved, but they won't have a new antenna built until next April or May if the winter isn't too bad. He did say the dropouts are weather/interference related and due to VHF.

I'm just wondering why the dropouts have just started recently (at least for me) since they've been transmitting DTV on the same frequency for over 3 years and I haven't had a problem with it before. Maybe it's because we've had daily rain for over a month which is unusual. Next rain I'm going to check out both KKTV and PBS and see if there's a problem.

Enjoy them while they last. Whenever they get around to implementing the NGIS, the PBS National feeds will become redundant. IIRC, they'll be phasing them out at some point...

- Trip

OK, I plead ignorance. What do the acronyms NGIS and IIRC mean? And, how do they affect satellite feeds? Thanks in advance for the information.
Cheers

OK, I plead ignorance. What do the acronyms NGIS and IIRC mean? And, how do they affect satellite feeds? Thanks in advance for the information.
Cheers

NGIS = Next Generation Interconnect System or something like this.

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly, an Internet acronym that's been around for at least 10 years. ;)

The NGIS is basically sending files instead of live video. The acronym they use is "NRT" which is "Non Real Time." Basically, you send an hour-long program in 40 minutes because you're sending it as a file instead of sending it as live video. It only takes as long to send as it takes for the file to download.

I don't know a lot of the specifics. I hope that manages to help you somewhat.

- Trip

I'm on the south side, near the fairgrounds. My tuner is a Hauppauge HVR-1600. I don't know what kind of antenna, it's in the attic where it's been for like 50 years. The antenna probably needs to be adjusted to point at Cheyenne Mountain instead of Baculite Mesa. The channels I do get come in real good. My tuner actually gets enough signal to get station IDs from KRDO's sub-channels, but no picture or sound, so I have those unchecked in the tuner software.

Quoting myself to say that I've kinda-sorta solved my KRDO reception problem. I now get KRDO over the air, sometimes it is choppy. I don't know how it helped, but I upgraded from Windows XP Pro to Windows 7 Pro, using the latest WinTV 7 with the latest drivers. Now I get KOAA-NBC with its subchannel, KTSC-PBS with 3 subchannels (one audio only), KKTV-CBS with 2 subchannels, KRDO-ABC with 1 sub, and KXRM-Fox with 1 sub. I also get Univision and Telefutura, both Spanish channels.

I upgraded from Windows XP Pro to Windows 7 Pro, using the latest WinTV 7 with the latest drivers. Now I get KOAA-NBC with its subchannel, KTSC-PBS with 3 subchannels (one audio only), KKTV-CBS with 2 subchannels, KRDO-ABC with 1 sub, and KXRM-Fox with 1 sub. I also get Univision and Telefutura, both Spanish channels.

You're getting everything available. Did you try WMC in Windows 7? You might like it better than WinTV. Outside of a few quirks, it's not bad.

NGIS = Next Generation Interconnect System or something like this.

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly, an Internet acronym that's been around for at least 10 years. ;)

The NGIS is basically sending files instead of live video. The acronym they use is "NRT" which is "Non Real Time." Basically, you send an hour-long program in 40 minutes because you're sending it as a file instead of sending it as live video. It only takes as long to send as it takes for the file to download.

I don't know a lot of the specifics. I hope that manages to help you somewhat.

- Trip

On thinking about it, that does make sense to send a file vis-a-vis live video at least for recorded programming. Not sure you could do that for live events like a football game though. Still, for a large percentage of programming its an interesting concept. Let's assume we have an HD program transmitted at full bandwidth of ~19 Mbps (with no compression and/or error correction). That means an hour's worth of HD program takes up ~8.5 GB of memory. So to move that 8.5 GB in 40 minutes requires a transmission data rate of ~28.5 Mbps, almost 2/3 of a DS-3 circuit. Do the numbers above seem about right? If so (even if I'm off by a factor of 2) that implies a Cable company or DTH satellite provider head end is going to need a lot of bandwidth terminating in their office to accomodate say, 100 channels of programming. Naturally this demand would be reduced by live feeds, and other smart distribution alternatives, like Blu-Ray (or better) disks. Bottom line: Your point is well taken. It seems a lot of content distribution will become "digital" and transmitted at rates significantly different than that used to the end user. The content could be sent any time of day using whatever signal path (terrestrial or satellite) is available. There's no need to worry about receiving packets at a constant rate or in a set sequence either. Also, if there's an outage mid way through transmission, just start sending where you left off, then reassemble when it shows up. So back to your original comment, guess we should enjoy it while we can. :D
Cheers.

You're pretty much right, though the NGIS would be used only to transmit the programming from PBS to the local affiliates, who would then air it as normal on their OTA feed. As you imply, it would not include live programming like Presidential debates and the News Hour (I think).

The other thing to keep in mind is that they may not necessarily be using MPEG-2, which would mean they could compress the video down even more using the same space instead of increasing bandwidth. However, I am under the impression they're increasing the bandwidth, too, by using DVB-S2 instead of DVB-S, if an old presentation from 2006 was to be believed.

- Trip

You're getting everything available. Did you try WMC in Windows 7? You might like it better than WinTV. Outside of a few quirks, it's not bad.

I tried WMC in Windows 7, it is pretty nice. It has a working program guide, which is cool. WinTV does kinda suck, but it works. At least the latest version goes fullscreen correctly, leaving black bars at the top and bottom of the screen since my monitor is 16:10

You're pretty much right, though the NGIS would be used only to transmit the programming from PBS to the local affiliates, who would then air it as normal on their OTA feed. As you imply, it would not include live programming like Presidential debates and the News Hour (I think).

The other thing to keep in mind is that they may not necessarily be using MPEG-2, which would mean they could compress the video down even more using the same space instead of increasing bandwidth. However, I am under the impression they're increasing the bandwidth, too, by using DVB-S2 instead of DVB-S, if an old presentation from 2006 was to be believed.

- Trip

A bit more info on the current state of PBS/Ku: The AMC-21 satellite currently has four sources of PBS HD. Two of them are designated as feeds and two of them are scheduled programming intended to provide a signal to people who cannot pick up PBS from a local channel. Unlike the other national networks, there is no attempt to tie anyone to a local "market" so the satellite channels are available to anyone who can receive them.

I can receive all four sources, but the two that are called feeds frequently show a test pattern and I do not know how to predict what will be broadcast on them and when.

The other two sources are called PBS-East and PBS-West; the schedule for PBS-East is on titantv at channel 249.

Regarding DVB-S2 and mpeg-2-ness, my tuner is supposed to be DVB-S2 capable (I have not yet tried it that way) so if you are going to jump into the Ku band pool be sure you get a tuner that at least advertises S2 support. I have heard rumors of people receiving NBC over DVB-S2 from a different satellite; the video is H264 and the audio is AC-3. I have not tried this either. It would be nice if this worked so we could acquire the signal upstream of the local weather alerts but that is a challenge for another day.

NGIS = Next Generation Interconnect System or something like this.

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly, an Internet acronym that's been around for at least 10 years. ;)

The NGIS is basically sending files instead of live video. The acronym they use is "NRT" which is "Non Real Time." Basically, you send an hour-long program in 40 minutes because you're sending it as a file instead of sending it as live video. It only takes as long to send as it takes for the file to download.

I don't know a lot of the specifics. I hope that manages to help you somewhat.

- Trip

For a little more information on Next Generation Interconnection System, check out these links:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/84128
http://idahoptv.org/press/showStory.cfm?StoryID=40733

From the sounds of things it looks like they will still use the AMC-21 satellite. Whether we'll be able to receive any feeds or broadcasts (i.e. PBS-East or West) in the future??? Guess it remains to be seen.
Cheers

Found this from a friend today. It seemed appropriate with all of the problems people have been posting here lately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIgZHZpiq1U&feature=player_embedded

Found this from a friend today. It seemed appropriate with all of the problems people have been posting here lately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIgZHZpiq1U&feature=player_embedded

Nice! Who'd have thought ... :D

Nice! Who'd have thought ... :D

I had to chuckle when my bud at work showed it to me. I immediately thought of this thread. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Scott

Part 1 of 2 (Part 2 has more pictures of the spectrum analyzer display)

Well, I managed to borrow a spectrum analyzer from work and collect some information on our local TV channels and what the RF spectrum looks like. I'm up in Briargate appoximately 15 miles from Cheyenne Mtn (Az 198 deg true). I used a pair of rabbit ears (not the best I know - but its all I had and it was cheap) and a Tek 2712 spectrum analyzer. The spectrum analyzer was set for 75 ohm impedance, Reference Level: -20 dBm, 20 dB attenuation was used. I did everything possible to peak the signal with Max Hold turned on to get the strongest signal (move antenna elements, fiddle with the antenna knob, move the antenna around, etc). After getting the max signal, I took a picture - which you see here (I hope).

Below is data from TV Fool and my measurements for the 5 primary network channels. The measured values were in pretty good agreement with the TV Fool values. I'm not sure what place on the spectrum their value corresponded to, so I just picked a max (using the calibrated Mk IV Eyeball) somewhere in the video carrier.

Oh yeah, here is the link to the TV Fool page for my location:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8ecd1bd68e25aa

Callsign Channel Video Carrier (Mhz) Virtual Ch Network NM (dB) Power (dBm) Path Dist (mi) Az (true deg) Measured Pwr (dBm)
KVSN-DT 48 675.25 58.5 -32.3 LOS 15.3 198
KRDO-DT 24 531.25 13.1 ABC 58.2 -32.6 LOS 15.3 198 -33.5
KTSC-DT 8 181.25 8.1 PBS 58.1 -32.8 LOS 15.3 199 -32.1
KKTV-DT 10 193.25 11.1 CBS 55.3 -35.6 LOS 15.4 199 -34.0
K30AA 30 567.25 43.2 -35.6 LOS 15.3 199
KOAA-DT 42 639.25 5.1 NBC 52.9 -37.9 LOS 15.3 198 -36.4
KXRM-DT 22 519.25 21.1 FOX 52.5 -38.4 LOS 15.3 199 -39.9
K41JO 41 633.25 39.4 -39.4 LOS 9.8 209
KWHS-LP 51 693.25 38.6 -40.3 LOS 15.3 199
KTLO-LP 46 663.25 38.2 -40.6 LOS 15.3 199
KGHB-CA 27 549.25 37.5 -41.3 LOS 15.3 199
KXTU-LP 57 729.25 36.5 -42.3 LOS 15.3 199
KZCS-LP 25 537.25 23.1 46.8 -44.0 LOS 15.4 199
K32EO 32 579.25 33.0 -45.8 LOS 15.4 199
K14MH 14 471.25 32.7 -46.1 LOS 9.8 209
K43CG 43 645.25 29.1 -49.7 LOS 15.3 199
KJCS-LP 38 615.25 27.0 -51.8 LOS 15.3 199
KZCS-LP 23 525.25 25.2 -53.7 LOS 15.4 199
K41JO 41 633.25 41.1 36.9 -53.9 LOS 9.8 209
K30AA 30 567.25 30.1 36.3 -54.5 LOS 15.3 199
KJCS-LP 38 615.25 38.1 35.0 -55.8 LOS 15.3 199
K07PA 7 175.25 7.1 16.5 -74.4 LOS 9.6 229
KDVR-DT 51 693.25 51.1 14.2 -76.6 LOS 15.3 198


Picture 1 - Lo VHF band - CF: 70 MHz, Span: 40 MHz. Comment: Not surprisingly - No signals.

Picture 2 - FM band - CF: 97.5 MHz, Span: 30 MHz. Comment: Just an FYI to show all the FM stations received here. KCME, 88.7 MHz is on the far left.

Picture 3 - Hi VHF Band - CF: 195 MHz, Span: 50 MHz. Comment: Chs 8 and 10 (KTSC-DT & KKTV-DT) are clearly visible. There are a few other spikes that could be carriers or pilots. Should probably compare them with the TV Fool data.

Picture 4 - UHF band -CF: 640 MHz, Span: 400 MHz. Comment: Looking from left to right the double peak (Peaks 1 & 2): Chs 22 & 24 (KXRM-DT & KRDO-DT), Peak 3: Ch 30 (K30AA), Peak 4: Ch 32 (K32EO), Peak 5: Ch 38 (KJCS-LP), Peak 6: Ch 42 (KOAA-DT), Peak 7: Ch 45 (????), Peak 8: Ch 48 (KVSN-DT), Peak 9: Ch 55 (????).

This part 2 of 2 with the remaining pictures of the spectrum analayzer display showing the Colorado Springs TV Radio frequency spectrum.

Picture 5 - CF: 189.5 MHz, Span: 10 MHz. Comment: Closeup of Chs 8 & 10.

Picture 6 - CF: 527.5 MHz, Span: 10 MHz. Comment: Closeup of Chs 22 & 24.

Picture 7 - CF: 641.0 MHz, Span: 10 MHz. Comment: Closeup of Ch 42.

Picture 8 - My lab assistant :D and equipment used for the test - Pretty primitive I'm afraid. No calibrated antenna here! :(

Nice pictures! I love spectrum analyzers and desperately want one of my own.

Channel 55 is Qualcomm's MediaFLO. Qualcomm owns channel 55 across the US.

Channel 45... could that be KWHD-DT 46 in Castle Rock?

Channels 30 and 32... can you get a closer shot of them? I can't really make them out at that resolution.

I see an analog on 23 in your closeup of 22/24. I also think I see an analog on 41 in your 42 closeup.

- Trip