Little birdies are nice :-)

The last update we had from them not too long ago was by November up in digital at least. At the time they said they wouldn't have HD, but they also said KKTV didn't have HD and that they'd just be upconverting just like KKTV. Because he was wrong about KKTV, I'm hoping he was wrong about KRDO too.

Any new info on Adelphia sending out 24 HD channels? I wonder how they could get their hands on 24 channels, unless they were just upconverting misc. channels for testing purposes..

I just got around to sending my friendly email to Jeff Thomas at KRDO encouraging them to move quickly on getting an HD OTA signal up.

I assume if anyone had gotten a response from him, it would have been posted here, right?

I haven't received anything....yet(?). I'm not surprised though. I've sent emails to KRDO before and never received a response.

I'll try and test out the "24 channels theory" tomorrow afternoon.

Take a look at the following link. You'll see that Colorado springs is ranked #94 (DMAranking.) Amazining to see lower ranked stations in more Rural Areas having more DTV stations on the air than our great metropolis!

http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/issues/digitaltv/DTVStations.asp

I think we were one of the last in the top 100 to have any DTV.

Drvais.. please let me know how you check for the "24" thing.

Here's how I did it: With my E86: I have my cable input on my ant-in input, my antenna and D* dish are into the satellite input. I set my local channels to my ant-in, and then searched and it came up with nothing. I also went through the signal meter on local digital and there were no signals. I really hope they do send them without encryption.

This is kind of off topic, but I thought it would be a way for everyone to see some HD on some projectors. I'm having an informal Open House Projector Shootout this Friday (September 19th) at my home here in Colorado Springs, then at a friend's house this Sunday (September 21st) up in Parker (just South and East of Denver). The projectors to be compared are:

SCREENPLAY 7200
SCREENPLAY 5700
NEC HT-1000
STUDIO EXPERIENCE MATINEE 1HD

Festivities begin at 7:30 both nights. Anyone who is interested in the Colorado Springs shootout, please contact me (John) at:

jsmusicsound
@
wcubed.net

or IM me here.

I've only got the NEC HT-1000 for a few days, so I thought it would be fun to put these projectors through their paces! Now that KKTV is broadcasting in HD, I can actually show some HD clips.

See ya there...

JOHN

I would say this is the best place for any kinda announcement like this.

Will there be any other HD material like from an cable or satellite companies?

I have some Hi Def Windows Media 9 files, Tonight Show clips, some beautiful HD from Korea, and of course, stuff I recorded in HD from KKTV.

No satellite...yet...

JOHN

Just turned on CSI (at 830pm) and the picture is really hosed! Anyone else seeing the same thing? The image is really broken up.

I saw the intro and it looked the same as CSI always does(grainy). I didn't see any fast moving pictures to look for pixelation though.

I have never noticed this before, so I'm not sure if it has always been this way but Fox's station is now listed as: KXRM SD. I wonder what made them use SD, anyone know?
Also, I remember reading they might upconvert their signal... any chance of that still happening? Even their commericals looka lot better during widescreen programming, so I wish they would upconvert all the time.

I also tried adelphia again and got no signals.

They've used the SD for a while, if not since the beginning. I would guess because their Engineering group actually knows what High Definition is and that they are not broadcasting it, so the Standard (SD). Since it seems they actually have a clue over there it's too bad they don't have the support for HD. At least their way ahead of that ABC station we have here and have a digital channel operating.

Adelphia, 24 HD channels:rolleyes:. They wouldn't have a clue how to fit in 24 HD Channels if they did have access to that many.

Did anyone go to the projector party last night?

I wasn't able to test Adelphia's signals yesterday, but I hope to sometime this next week (it depends on when my neighbor gets his new HD set in).

I'm watching the CBS game in HD and it is looking pretty good. Most of the artifacting I've noticed is when they are spinning their logo on the screen and when the camera is behind the field-goal kicker and follows the ball through the uprights (SF is kicking a lot of FGs.) Then, the background crowd becomes mottled.

Is CBS doing HD instant replays or just extracting then from the SD feed?

Jack

PS and they need better cameras in the blimp.

Yes, I agree it looks pretty good, but CBS network must be doing something with the encoding for those motion artifacts to exist. I'm occasionally switching it over to the HDNet Oregon vs. Boise game, and I don't notice any issues like that.

I can't believe KXRM forgot to flip the switch and show the Bucs game in "high resolution." Shame on KXRM!

So others are seeing arifacts also, perhaps on the helmets as well during closeup shots?!? Thank Goodness! I just spent 20 minutes in the attic repositioning my antenna thinking that a stonger signal would help. I went from 77-83% up to 89-94% and am still seeing artifacts! Now I don't feel like a complete idiot, paritial yes, but not complete!;)

The most apparent pixelation is when they go to ground cameras, and guys run across the screen while they're zoomed in.(also for a short time on the big spinning CBS logo.) BTW... I was comparing between D*HD 70 and KKTV-DT and the artificats were Much worse on KKTV. Why would they not be giving the signal full bandwidth if they aren't multicasting etc?

Also, I thought KKTV said they couldn't send out a 5.1 signal... it was 5.1... same as D*s today.

I've been seeing the artifacts for weeks now even with 100% signal strength, so I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.

I wonder why Fox didn't flip the switch today?

GUESS WHAT?

Here is the response I got from Jeff Thomas at KRDO - it looks like we're getting HD Monday Night Football soon! Yeah!

Hi Jeremy:
Thanks for thinking of us at News 13.

Our HD transmission is very close to being up and running. This is an extremely costly operation for a handful of people who have the expensive sets. You may be ready, but the vast majority of viewers do not have the expensive equipment.

Please be patient. It's going to be complete within the next two weeks.

Thanks again for your interest in News 13.

Jeff

And here's the reply that I got from Mr. Thomas.

Hi Frank:

Thanks for thinking of us at News 13.

HD TV is a ways off, but our digital signal will join those of our competitors soon.

No one in the market has HD yet. The system is extermely expensive and very few homes
have the expensive sets to receive it. Please be patient.

Thanks for your interest in News 13.

Jeff Thomas
News 13 Station Relations Director

WTF!! Talking out both sides of his keyboard!

Well now that's bothersome. How long ago did you get that? It seems that they are quite confused about the difference between HD and digital. I sure hope you replied and let him know how nice CBS is in HD, and how wrong his comment is about no one having HD yet.

And I was getting all excited...

Just got it this AM. I'll be responding shortly.

Hi all,

I just recently jumped on the hdtv bandwagon. I purchased a mitsubishi 55413 and am loving the HD off directv. I now want to get OTA up and running for CBS-HD. What are you guys using for antennaes? (I live in briargate and don't have direct line of site to cheyenne mountain) Do you guys see a big difference in reception between CBS anolog and CBS digital? My current reception of CBS analog is pretty poor, but fox,abc,and nbc(30) come in pretty well.

-Mike

I'm just using a cheap-o $10 uhf/vhf antenna, and it works fine. I'm a few miles closer though, I-25 and Rockrimmon. I'd try a cheap one first, then maybe get an amplified antenna if that doesn't work. I'm not sure how my CBS analog is, I've only got the digital channel added.

Grrr... that's annoying. I wish they'd at least try understanding what HD means before they write stuff like that - especially coming from the PR/CR dept. I suppose that's why they didn't email me back - I directly compared them to KKTV, and mentioned how nice some shows looked in HD. That must have confused them greatly :)

As far as antennas, I currently use a $10 antenna and usually hover around 77% signal. I live near Fountain and Circle.

B**tards! KRDO just had to wait until AFTER my HD equipment is already on its way to Europe before they start broadcasting. LOL!

That's great for everyone still living here, though. :)

I'm using a Rat Shack Bowtie antenna, but I've tried hooking up a pair of rabbit ears with a little UHF circular wire in the center, and that also picks up KKTV pretty well.

Jeff doesn't seem to know the difference between HD and digital at all.

Several weeks ago he said November for their digital signal, and that they would only be doing what CBS is doing, no HD but upconverting all the time. (Which was totally wrong, I figured he would know the CBS was doing HD by now after I'm sure several of us let him know they were)

So as of now I'm hoping that he just has no idea what is going on, and that they will be upconverting all the time, and showing HD when it's on, just as CBS is doing.

At least he has consistently give the same date, and it's good to see that date moved forward. Let's just hope he has no clue about HD within their station.

My response from Jeff Thomas this morning was the same as Frank's, not Jeremy's:

"You are receiving digital TV, not HDTV. No one in the market has that with the exception of the networks and cable systems. Local stations are being required to run and operate two TV stations to provide digital coverage.

HDTV, the next step from digital, is very expensive, and few homes have what you have. The sets are just too expensive right now.

HDTV will come in time, and our digital signal should be up within the next two weeks.

Thanks for your interest in News 13.

Jeff Thomas
News 13 Station Relations Director"

I had told him how good KKTV's HD shows were also - so he heard it from many of us, and still assumed we were ALL idiots.

It's going to be difficult to keep the sarcasm out of my response....

Perhaps Mr. Thomas simply doesn't know (through official channels) that KKTV is re-transmitting the Network HD feed>

I emailed him today letting him know I watch KKTV CBS HD via channel 10-1/11-1 everynight including college and pro football on the weekends. I also made it clear that I knew the difference between the primetime HD and their upconverting, so he can't tell me they only upconvert.

I really don't understand this though: "No one in the market has that with the exception of the networks and cable systems."

Networks and cable systems? What does he mean?

Originally posted by Vaggeto
Networks and cable systems? What does he mean?

I assume he means that the local affiliates don't have HD Cameras, editors and whatever else is need to produce HD content. The affiliates are just passing though the network digital or upconverting the analog feed with a standard, rather expensive box. I have no idea what HD capabilities the local cable companies have.

Jack

Originally posted by Vaggeto


I've been seeing the artifacts for weeks now even with 100% signal strength, so I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.



I think the artifacting is a function of the encoder. They just aren't throwing enough MIPS at the processor so when it has a lot of action going on it just does what it can before going onto the next frame. Signal strength won't make a difference with artifacts. Basically, if not enough signal gets through the picture goes blank. Either the bits get through as a coherent data-stream or the set shuts off the display.

One of the nice things about the digital picture is that it is so clear compared to the analog picture I can barely receive on all the channels. So far all the digital channels (all two of them) are getting to me over that ridge between me and Cheyenne Mtn. I look forward to seeing what ABC can do.

Jack

Got this from Joe Reed at KRDO:

Michael
we are building out our DTV transmitter over the next three weeks and hope to be broadcasting an up converted digital signal by Nov 03
thank you for viewing

Joe Reed
IT Manager
Pikes Peak Broadcasting
719-575-6213

--------------------------------------

*sigh* My original question asked about HDTV, of course... do these people not know what they're talking about, or are they just acting like it?

Well my samsung t-160 just arrived today. I was able to set up everything just fine for the satellite hd signals. Unfortunately, the samsung unit was not detecting any Digital ota signals. I suspected this may be the case for cbs since kktv-dt is channel 10 and I have real bad vhf reception. However, I expected fox to come through pretty strong considering I get pretty good reception from a powered indoor antenae. Guess I'll need to look at mounting something either in the attic or on the roof. Sigh

-Mike

BTW anyone know the covenants for mounting antenaes in briargate?

Uh, by Federal law, you should be able to put your antenna wherever it needs to be to get optimum reception.

Section 207 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 is what I'm referring to. It specifically allows consumers to "install satellite dishes and equipment despite landlord opposition in order to enjoy freely the benefits of digital access and entertainment."
*Quoted from Widescreen Review, Vol. 10 No. 9, Issue 53

By the way, KKTV-DT is channel 11 and KXRM-DT is 21. Did you go in and scan for digital channels?

drvais - My understanding is the federal law you are quoting does protect the placement of satellite dishes of a certain size. However, local agencies can restrict the size of large dishes/antenaes. For example, I have a friend who is a ham radio operator. He has been instructed by the city to remove his antenaes because they don't meet code. I also suspect we wouldn't be allowed to place a 10 foot satelitte dish in our front yard.

Jeremy - I tried scanning for digital channels about a dozen times (i've read sometimes it takes the samsung several shots to pick up the stations properly). Looks like i'm going to have to try something else. My next attempt might be a 15 element yagi mounted in the attic.

-Mike

Jeremy - KKTV-DT is channel 10. It may show up on your set as channel 11 but it's being modulated at channel 10 (192-198 MHz). Here's a link to the allocation of channels for colorado springs.

100kwatts.tmi.net/tv/COS.html

sorry there is no link it won't let me post a link until I've posted at least 5 times

The real bummer is, all the DTV stations are UHF except for KKTV-DT which is VHF at channel 10. This means we can't use a nice directional UHF antenna like the zenith silver plus to pick up CBS-HD

Interesting, it shows KXRM-DT as 22 also. Wonder why they show up as 11 and 21. Oh well.

I also noticed that they list KRDO-DT, KTSC-DT, and KOAA-DT all as "new - to be." Nice to see they have channels decided already. Hopefully they will "be" before I'm old and gray. Our buddies at KRDO seem to be trying at least, confused as they are.

A bit of advice on the Sammy 160 - make sure you give it ample breathing room. I had my first one in my AV cabinet and slowly fried it. They sent me a new one, it is sitting outside by itself and is doing fine.

Good luck with the OTA stations, college and pro fooball in 1080i on CBS is something you don't want to miss. As for their crappy sitcoms and dramas, well...

ryttingm, antennas are covered as well, as a satellite dish is a type of antenna. Please review the law and you will see that you'll be ok with putting up a huge antenna.

Check out this site for info on getting away with an obnoxious antenna: http://www.satellitetvmania.com/fcccase.htm

And also review these links as well:
http://www.satellitetvmania.com/renters.htm
http://titantvretailzone.com/rz/RetailZone/DtvFaq.asp?referrerId=0&pid=rzdefault

One last thing about the law I'm referencing, HAM radio probably wouldn't be covered as the law is strictly dealing with video signals.

FWIW, I receive the KKTV-DT signal using a roof mounted uhf only antenna (CM 3021). I live between Lone Tree and Castle Rock.

Thanks for all the info as well keeping on these broadcasters folks, it is appreciated! I do have a question though. What hopes for OTA do you think I have living next to Fox Run Park South of Monument?

Originally posted by xyzzy11686
What hopes for OTA do you think I have living next to Fox Run Park South of Monument?

I live near Lewis Palmer H.S. and get OTA HD just fine. Singal is about the same strength as analog stations.

Is anyone else not getting an audio feed on FOX HD today? The Vikings were broadcast with audio in 4:3 mode but then FOX switched to widescreen and lost the audio feed it seems.

Seems they went back to 4:3, and still don't have audio.

It seems their weekend workers, if different, have problems doing widescreen material. I remember baseball games on Saturdays not being widescreen, but wasn't sure if they were supposed to be, now I think they were.

Yep, looks like KXRM-DT is having some issues today. Sound is out, it was widescreen earlier, now letterboxed.

Did anyone else read the article in the Gazette today? It's on Metro 1 and 7.

Here's a bit from it:

Keeping up with developing technology for better picture quality explains Adelphi'a move to offer four high definition stations beginning Wednesday - HBO_HD (no. 215), Showtime-HD (No. 220), CBS_HD (No. 711) and fox-HD (No. 721)."

My only problem with this is they list it as Fox-HD, when even Fox itself lists their channel as SD. Maybe this will force Fox to work on showing ED material correctly. lAlso looks like we won't get these channels without their cable box, so no OTA/satellite tuners will get them at those channel #s.


Edit: Also on Business 4 in teh Gazette there is another article which shows people going from digital cable back to analog because they don't need all those channels. I hope this makes them realize that we would rather have quality over quantity.

Which is worse: KXRM-DT with severe lip sync issues or without any audio at all?

I prefer the latter. ;)

Not sure, but the quality is terrible. I'd prefer KKTV upconverted the whole season with no HD games over Fox the whole season with a couple HD games.

3 HD channels on Adelphia is definitely more believable and attainable at this time. At least they are finally getting started.

I think we all need to email the Chief Engineer over at FOX and let him know there are a lot of people who see their problems. I wonder if it was equipment failure again or OE?

If Adelphia would add ESPNHD, Discovery HD and HDNet, they would have my business.

Roy

Any of you guys catch the Colts/Saints game on ESPN-HD? I have yet to see KKTV look that good! The PQ on ESPN-HD was incredible!!

Yep, they have been doing a good job with Sunday night football lately. Even better than the PQ was Payton tearing up the Saints. :)

It seems that ESPN-HD's 720p upconverted to 1080i looks smoother than CBS's straight 1080i, especially during fast motion shots. I guess that is why they chose 720p though. CBS still suffers from artifacts on fast motion, although it looks a touch crisper otherwise IMO. Do you think that is inherent for 1080i, or will they eventually solve that problem?

With all this good HD football and more to come, I'm tempted to upgrade to a widescreen from my 4:3 set. DLP or LCD maybe...

I'm surprised Adelphia is finally getting their HD package out, limited as it is. If they get the rest of them, I'll probably wish I hadn't moved to satellite.

Well after trying my 4th antenna I finally had luck geting the DTV signals. Just in time for weekend football. (i'm sure glad I didn't miss the alabama/arkansas game). I read some reviews over at projectorexpert.com that mentioned the radio shack 15-1862 as a good antenna. I ended up getting the 15-1880 which is the newer version and I was finally able to lock in.

I still wasn't getting great reception (cbs would sometimes cut out) so I moved the antenna up stairs and hooked into some existing coax wiring in the house that was originally intended for DBS service. Since then the reception has been great. However, My wife doesn't like the antenna sitting in the nursery and has demanded that I install something outside. I've seen promising reviews of the CM 3010 also known as the stealthtenna. Any owners of this antenna out there? any comments on it's performance?

-Mike

BTW I noticed no sound on fox either. I was really hoping to see the bronco game in widescreen.

Ryttingm... I'm currently using the Stealthtenna unamplified very successfully. It's not bad looking and works well. I am pretty close to the towers though.

I think the CBS games look better then the ESPN games. Are you watching the CBS NFL game on D* or OTA? Our OTA channel isn't giving it enough bandwidth and it has the artifacts a lot more then D* version. I really notice the resolution difference on any shot that isn't a closeup. Espn isn't nearly as detailed until the closeups where it looks about the same. Not to mention the red left-outlines on people on the ESPN NFL games.

I am wathcing with everything upconverted to 1080i though. What TV do you have and can it show 720p and 1080i?

I don't know of a mass-market consumer television set that can natively show both 720p and 1080i. I think one of the Princeton Graphics direct-view sets could, but I don't really consider those easy to come by.

Yah, I didn't think so either except for some large computer displays and maybe those new Toshiba Lcos displays? They have 1080p, so I assume they can show 720p, or upconvert 720p to 1080p flawlessly. But from the littel bit of reading I've done on them they have a lot of their own problems not to mention $7.500 for a 65" set.

I just read what Jeremy wrote again and I see his set is upconverting to 1080i. So the main problem he's seeing which is the artifcating on quick scenes has nothing to do with CBS and 1080i, but instead is KKTVs fault.
Although I don't know why 720p upconverted to 1080i would look any smoother then native 1080i content.

The Toshiba LCoS sets, along with all of the other new fancy technologies, typically convert everything to the display device's native resolution. For the Toshiba LCoS in particular (FYI- I believe they only have the 57-inch model on the market due to manufacturing problems), it upconverts everything to 1080p. Ironically enough, though, it won't accept a 1080p signal.

Has anyone tried scanning for new channels lately? I would imagine KRDO-DT will start testing pretty soon since they claim to be getting thier digital station up soon. I'll have to run a scan every now and then to check. And another Monday night passes without HD MNF... :(

Based on the replies received by some of us from Mr. Thomas at KRDO, I would be very surprised if we actually see an HD signal from KRDO in the next 1-2 years. DTV by the end of the year is a possiblity, but i've given up hope of seeing ABC in HD anytime soon.

I'm curious to see what our options will be down the road for receiving WB in hd. WB has some great shows in high definition, but with the lack of local broadcast I don't think that WB in high def will be a possibility for some time.

About the only option I see at this time is adelphia, and we all know how fast adelphia is at adopting new technology.

-Mike

WB has great shows? :)

Originally posted by ryttingm
BTW I noticed no sound on fox either. I was really hoping to see the bronco game in widescreen.

I wrote to KRXM about the sound and widescreen and here was their reply:

The audio missing in the games is most likely due to the fact that Fox is using SAP on some of the games and you need to take that option off of your set. Many sets default to it, so you need to look in your owners manual about how to turn the option "off". That way you will always get both channel audio correctly.

I'll check for the SAP setting on my OTA receiver. If anyone else does the same and it works, would you let me know?

As for widescreen, it is up to Fox which games are and sometimes they do not give us a heads-up on which games are. You need to check on Fox.com or Foxsports.com.



Russ

That confused me. They told you to check fox.com for what games are widescreen?

I agree, KXRM's response doesn't make any sense. The Bucs game two Sundays ago was in Fox Widescreen, but they certainly didn't show it that way.

Their reply in reference to the audio problem sounds bogus also.

Remember that Fox only offers 2 NFL games a week in widescreen (usually), and last weekend's Broncos game was not one of them. So that wasn't KXRM's fault. Of course, the audio was.

Looking at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300612, it looks like the 11 a.m. CBS-HD game and the 11 a.m. Fox-widescreen game will be pre-empted by the Broncos-Chiefs non-HD game this coming Sunday. That means if you're looking for widescreen HD or ED games this weekend without NFL Sunday Ticket, you probably only get the Redskins game at 2 p.m. in Fox widescreen (assuming KXRM personnel are awake) and then the ESPN-HD game on Sunday night.

But based on http://www.nfl.com/schedules/tv/national, I think that the following week will be the Broncos in HD for what I assume is the first time ever broadcast OTA in Colorado (vs. Steelers on Oct. 12)!

I know for a fact that the Broncos game two weeks ago (which is what I was referring to) was in widescreen because it was being offered in widescreen on the DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket.

I did not see the Broncos on Sunday Ticket in widescreen. The widescreen game during the Broncos game was the Dallas game. There was another one in the morning timeslot.

Since that was their first game on Fox, there were no other possible widescreen games, right?

What game are you referring to that was two weeks ago?

I agree that the audio problem explanation sounds bogus.

I'm referring to the listing I saw on DirecTV NFL channel 70 on 21 Sep for the Bucs game being presented in "high resolution" (read Fox Widescreen). I even mentioned how KXRM forgot to flip the switch when this happened.

Oh, ok. I think I'm confused because of a typo.

A couple posts up you said the "Broncos game two weeks age."

I'm guessing you mean the Bucs.

HDNet is the best HD channel out there. Better picture quality than ESPNHD, and excellent sports programming.

HD Hockey starting with the Avs game Oct 10!! I have no regrets going to satellite. In a year when Adelphia starts to catch up I may consider going back.

I don't think I would go back, if nothing else, just out of principle. I've had so many problems dealing with Adelphia...

Looks like I may be relocating to Colorado Springs. Anybody here have any luck with DTV reception in the north Black Forest area?

Originally posted by MalcolmG
Looks like I may be relocating to Colorado Springs. Anybody here have any luck with DTV reception in the north Black Forest area?

I'm just south of County Line Rd between Furrow and 83. I just hooked up the other night and was pleasantly surprised to receive both 11 and 21 with a $7 set of amplified rabbit ears sitting on top of the monitor. :D

YMMV, of course.

Has anyone been watching the recent playoff baseball games on Fox? Not a single one has been in widescreen, and I'm not sure if they are supposed to be, but they audio is DD. Only the games and other EDTV material has the DD audio, so I'm thinking they are supposed to be widescreen. Can anyone confirm that they were supposed to be?

Also, I saw a local commercial on Fox about the SAP issue, so it has to be a real problem, but I doubt it is what caused the programming last Sunday to have no sound because there has been sound with no changes on my end ever since.

I thint that I read in the HD programming area that the World Series would be in widescreen but the playoffs would not.

Roy

Just checking in...

Anyone check with Adelphia on their HD rollout?

I will tomorrow, just wanted to see if anyone else had done the legwork.

THANKS!!!

JOHN

Roy is right, World Series only in "Fox widescreen". http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=307094 Even the ESPN games won't be HD on ESPN-HD. This thread talks about how it's still not cost-efficient to produce games in widescreen or HD. Gotta love living on the bleeding edge.

*sigh*, I can't believe the lost on a return for a touchdown that should have been brought back at the 2 yard line due to a blatant block in the back that took two Broncos out, and a missed fieldgoal. Not to mention the plague we still have with actually catching easy interceptions... and the almost made Ashley Lelie catches of which 2/3 shoulda been caught.

KKTV had pixelation the whole game. I wonder why they are not giving the signal enough bandwidth? There used to be no pixelation so they lowered the bandwidth without adding any channels which makes no sense to me, but I don't really know much about it anyway.

I was returning my cable modem to the Adelphia office the other day as I was moving out of the city, and I thought it was funny that one of their saleswomen was telling a customer about "all of their high definition" channels. Wow, a whole 3 channels, plus one digital one with a serious audio sync issue.
Now that KXRM is getting full-time exposure with Adelphia, you'd think they'd fix their equipment configuration and get that audio sync problem taken care of after all of this time. I bet after enough complaints starting going to Adelphia about it, KXRM will eventually address it.

Vaggeto,

You said it man. The broncos were by far the better team today. I'm surprised the announcers didn't say anything about the block that sprung hall for the game winning touchdown. All I can say is the game in denver will be a much different story.

-Mike

KKTV always does one channel whether it is standard or high
definition in 1080i and 19.39 MBps. Unfortunately, some bandwith restrictions are occuring from the live event back to the CBS operations
center in New York. It's probilibly an economic thing in trying to do two
HD live events on the weekends. Broncos will be in HD AND 5.1 surround
next Sunday.

Hmmm...
The exact same game over D* satellite looks exactly the same on still pictures, and doesn't have the pixelation on moving ones. Are they somehow an exception, and getting the signal before the CBS operation center cuts the bandwidth on it? Also, other OTA people aren't seeing this pixelation. I somehow have a hard time believe it originates at the original signal since other sources don't have the problem.

Hello all -

Picked up the Adelphia HDTV box last night. So far, so good - HBO-HD looked amazing, even with a less than spectacular film, REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES. Yes. there are only 4 channels (HBO, SHOWTIME, FOX and KKTV), but they assure me there will be plenty more by Christmas (we'll see).

Two gripes - very little actual HD content on SHOWTIME, and I cannot get the DVI output to work!

Anyone else tried Adelphia HD?

THANKS!!!

JOHN

Cool. Seems you're the first here to try it out :-)

I would like to just to test and compare quality, but I'll be sticking with D*.

What do the HD channels cost additionally?

You got me! With all of the "package pricing" it's nigh impossible to figure out what costs what. All I know is that my cable bill went up $30, but part of that is because I added Showtime.

JOHN

There may be a switch on the back of the box to change to DVI - there was on my Sony D* receiver. I'm watching Adelphia closely to see where they are at next summer. They need to get all the local channels AND everything that D* has for me to consider switching back. I haven't had a good experience with them at all.

I also just got adelphia hd in Fountain Colorado. I haven't tried the dvi yet. I have a work order for a tech to come out and adjust my signal this saturday. All my lower end channels have snow and are horrible. The high def is very nice though. What is the channel number for hbo hd? It is not showing on my guide. Thanks.

Oh btw....the hdtv receiver and remote are $8/month. This is all that is added to the bill. Of course if you want hbo and showtime you have to subscribe to them. Basically if you take back your digital reciever and exchange it for the hd on then you are only paying $4 more / month.

The DVI output on the 5100 is not activated for Comcast or Adelphia users. Check in the HDTV Hardware forum or search for Motorola 5100.

Finally, something live and really exciting on HDNet tonight, Blackhawks at Avalanche . . . and it's blacked out here. I understand protecting local advertisers, but it's torture to force an HD-capable viewer to give up the HD version for a stretched SD version on Fox Sports Rocky Mountain. There ought to be an exception to the blackout rule so you have the right to see the best quality broadcast available based on format and resolution . . .

Just noticed that HDNet is repeating the Avalanche game now at 10:30 p.m., with no blackout since it's not live. It looks absolutely gorgeous. But of course now we know the final score.

Great picture, great sound of Avs on HDNet. Too bad it wasn't live. The Denver thread isn't too happy either.

Looks good, but not nearly as nice as I remember it looking last year. But it was some of the first HD sports I encountered so that could have some effect.

and only ~36 hours left until our first available HD Broncos!

Also, on the KKTV pixelation issue... I don't see how it could be a problem coming from the source signal they are receiving as they said it is.

First of all here's what I'm referring to: "KKTV always does one channel whether it is standard or high
definition in 1080i and 19.39 MBps. Unfortunately, some bandwith restrictions are occuring from the live event back to the CBS operations
center in New York. It's probilibly an economic thing in trying to do two
HD live events on the weekends. Broncos will be in HD AND 5.1 surround
next Sunday."

My main problem with this explanation is this pixelation not only happens on the weekend HD, but on every fast moving program, at any time. Especially on news coverage of football from ground view. This would have nothing to do with the main CBS giving them a limited bandwidth signal. This pixealtion was Not there a couple months ago on the HD or SD.

Another problem is on the D* CBS HD there was very little pixelation compared to the our local KKTV-DT CBS. This tells me it's not a source issue. And lastly I have seen no one else complain about their local station having more pixelation then the D* version.

I really hope they fix this. I wonder how it is with Adelphia?

Also on the KXRM lip-sync... it's still there. I was also hoping Adelphia carrying the digital version of this would also make them get on the ball and get things right, but they continue to have problems. At least with the baseball it's not really noticeable.

One more thing: I'm still testing for our local ABC occasionally and I'm getting nothing so far. Only a couple more days and since it's now a weekend I'm doubting they will be up for MNF.

The Avs replay looked awesome. Like BEING at the Pepsi Center in about the 15th row.

Okay, we finally got to see a Broncos game in HD! They won, which is even better!

BUT......I have to admit that I was somewhat dissappointed with the picture quality. I'm getting a little tired of the pixazation on the close up shots and on the scenes that have a lot of motion in them. I don't have this problem with any of the HD channels that I'm getting from Dishnetwork, nor did I have this poor of an HD signal when I had the CBS-HD feed from Dish. Guess I should have stayed with the West Coast CBS HD feed. Fox is a joke, I still cant believe they consider their signal to "Enhanced!"

I know I sound like a guy that's not happy unless he's bitching, but Geeze this is getting old!!!!

I hope that somebody from KKTV is actually tuned into this thread and at the very least looks into fixing the problem.

It would be really great to see The Broncos vs. Vikings next week without the PQ issues!

Yes, it was great to have the Broncos in HD, and frustrating to have to alternate between a beautiful zoomed out picture and terribly pixelated zoomed in pictures. At least I only noticed the audio being way out of sync once or twice (Armen Keteyian's sideline reporting, and maybe a player interview).

Tim, can you figure this out before the Superbowl? Apparently it's only a problem in Colorado Springs, so one would think it could be solved at KKTV.

We still commend KKTV for being the first and only HD OTA signal in town!

It was great to finally see them in HD!

The couple times I checked our local KKTV out, I saw pixelation right away. On D* there was the occasional pixelation, seemingly more then normal, but not nearly as severe or frequent as KKTV. So I'm almost positive the "network is sending us an already compressed signal" reason for this pixelation is wrong since no one else is having the problem. One thing I did notice was the KKTV channel was louder then D*. (Both were in DD 5.1)

And it seems the audio problems were part of the production and had nothing to do with KKTV.

I also really hope they get this fixed by the Superbowl since that one won't be on D*.

:cool: I just found out that today's Broncos at Minnesota game is the CBS HD game this week. Didn't expect that. Hopefully we have a decent quarterback show up this week too. Someday we will be able to TiVo our HD programming and then I'll be in heaven.

Nice to at least have "Fox Widescreen" for the World Series last night. But I have got to figure out why my KXRM-digital picture still has the jitters. :mad:

Well it seems that KKTV fixed their pixelation problems but their audio seems to drop out or change volume a lot. Did anyone else notice audio problems today?

Hmm... bad game. We did have a decent quarterback show up though, he just didn't start playing until Bauerline got hurt ;-)
I was impressed for what he did. Before then it seems the Broncos couldn't do a single thing through the quarterback.

Too bad they put themselves in a hole like that. I wonder if they will try to start Bauer again next week.

On the upside... the KKTV-DT signal was much better! It seemed to rarely pixelate just like the D* version. It might have a tiny bit more, but it seems they did something to help.

I did notice the audio clicks and pops, but I think it was also on the D* version.

Everyone check out: http://espn.go.com/page2/s/uniform/round6/broncos_michigan.html

:-)

Originally posted by rajkej
Well it seems that KKTV fixed their pixelation problems but their audio seems to drop out or change volume a lot. Did anyone else notice audio problems today?

Yeah I did! I kept turning the volume up to hear the announcers, and then got blasted out of the room when a commercial came on.

The audio pops/quietness were also on D* 70..

It seemed to switch back and forth between 5.1 and stereo. The 5.1 indicator on my amp remained lit, but the sound from the speakers clearly was not 5.1 at certain times.

Hmmm, no action here for a few days. (I've got too much free time at work)

New topic: Voom.

I've been reading about it in the programming forum, sounds like they've got some major issues. I went to Sears to check it out while I was waiting for my car to be aligned last week. They only had one channel working, and it was some artsy-fartsy channel showing exciting footage of a fancy blanket. I have a feeling most of their original programming will be dull at best. More HD movie channels would be nice, but I would imagine they will show random old movies like HDnet Movies does, more miss than hit. I guess if I had money coming out of my ears I might give it a try for more HD, but since I don't, I won't.

Anyone else checked it out at Sears yet? I would hope it is running better now.

I havne't checked it out yet. I called Sears and they told me it was up and running around the 16th. But I'm going to wait until everything is working before I check it out. I think I agree about the extra channels, but hopefully they prove us wrong.

Tonight is the first World Series game that I have checked out in Fox digital widescreen. While not as sharp as true HD, it looks pretty good. The lip sync is still off. Has anyone talked to them about it lately. KKTV audio is always right on.

Roy

I went to the Southgate Sears the day it was released (Wed?) and wasn't impressed. A kid who worked there came over and (I assume) tried to impress me. He stated that his store was the first in the country to have it up and running. *yawn* Anyway, he said the only channel was the demo channel - apparently they couldn't change the channel. The display was on a GWIII and.. another LCD-based display (I think). The PQ on both was horrible, especially when it was displayed right next to their regular HD signal that was on the rest of the TVs. I looked at the back of the GWIII and they had component cables going in, but I didn't have the time to troubleshoot their system for them :)

I haven't been back there, but I did go up to the Chapel Hills Sears, and didn't see it running - that was a few days ago.

Any word on ABC broadcasting a digital or HD signal?

Originally posted by angilasaurus
Hello all -

Picked up the Adelphia HDTV box last night. So far, so good - HBO-HD looked amazing, even with a less than spectacular film, REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES. Yes. there are only 4 channels (HBO, SHOWTIME, FOX and KKTV), but they assure me there will be plenty more by Christmas (we'll see).

Two gripes - very little actual HD content on SHOWTIME, and I cannot get the DVI output to work!

Anyone else tried Adelphia HD?

THANKS!!!

JOHN

I got the Adelphia HD box last Thursday, and agree that the HBO and Showtime HD channels fantastic, but the Fox and CBS channels don't seem to be any different than before when broadcasting HD shows. I was looking forward to experiencing CSI in HD last week, but it wasn't anywhere close to the quality I'm seeing on HBO and Showtime. Are you experiencing this also? I haven't asked Adelphia about it yet.

Thanks.

Seems odd. KKTV is passing through the HD channels, so I think it would probably be a problem with Adelphia.


Are they showing CSI etc in SD or bad HD? Is it 16x9?

Originally posted by Vaggeto
Seems odd. KKTV is passing through the HD channels, so I think it would probably be a problem with Adelphia.


Are they showing CSI etc in SD or bad HD? Is it 16x9?

I sent an email to Adelphia, and am hoping for a response tomorrow. (I didn't bother calling because I figured they wouldn't have someone working to answer a question this specific on the weekend.)
All the listings I've found for CSI say it's broadcast in 1080i, but that is definetely not what it was in last week; it was no different than with the old box. I was also fairly certain that the World Series were broadcast in HD, but same issue there; there were fuzzy edges to the score boxes, etc. So at the moment, I'm paying for the HD box for 4 channels, but only receiving 2 in HD. Both of those are far down the lineup, whereas the two I'm having issues with are local, so it seems to me to be an Adelphia issue. If they write back with anything worthwhile, I'll copy it to here.

(Sorry for the quote inclusion; I was unable to reply without going this route)

Don't forget Fox only does extended definition... not high definition. So the best you'll see with them is widescreen 480p. I thought it was wrong of Adelphia to advertise them as an HD channel.

I got HDTV through Adelphia today. First off, don't call the Adelphia 1800 number and ask for a HDTV Box. I called them, they said I couldn't get HD service in my area. Called local office, they had a different story.

Went to local office, traded in my old box for a DCT6200.

My thoughts.

711-KKTVDT-CBS : Good station. PQ is good. Seems NON-HD programs are being converted to widescreen? I don't get the bars on right and left side.

721-KXRMDT-FOX : Pure crap. Not even a real HD channel.

HBOHD & SHOHD : Amazing.

Ok, so there are not alot of HD channels to choose from. I'm sure over the next year they will add alot more. I'd love to see NBC,ABC in HD.

I did get one thing to make the extra $6.50/month i'm paying worth while. The DCT6200. Talk about night/day from my old DC-Box.

Channels change lightning fast.

Menu/Info/Guide all pop up faster than I can blink when I hit the button.

Guide now holds a weeks worth of data for each channel instead of 36 hours or so like my old box.

Digital Outputs! Imagine that! Digital outputs on a DIGITAL CABLE BOX. haha, my old box just had analog RCA outputs for video and sound. Now i'm running component and optical out. Picture & sounds for all the channels are alot better.

sp0rk--THANK YOU for posting; I had no idea about channels 711 & 721, shame on me for not looking. The tech that brought the box (since I also wasn't smart enough to call the local office instead) didn't have a clue what any of the HD channels were.
How did you find out about 711 & 721 anyway? They're not listed on the last channel listing I received.

Originally posted by smithdj
sp0rk--THANK YOU for posting; I had no idea about channels 711 & 721, shame on me for not looking. The tech that brought the box (since I also wasn't smart enough to call the local office instead) didn't have a clue what any of the HD channels were.
How did you find out about 711 & 721 anyway? They're not listed on the last channel listing I received.

711 & 721 are listed in the onscreen channel guide. Atleast for me.

BTW, what box did you get? I was sort of surprised when they handed me the 6200. People at the adelphia 1800 number said they where using 5100's. That's what I was expecting.

I got the 5100. It uses the same remote as the old digital box, so I didn't have to reprogram my universal remote, but because the processor is so much faster it jumps up 2 channels instead of one. I'll reprogram that feature and see if it helps.
I hooked up the optical audio port immediately too; love seeing that blue Dolby light come on the receiver on some movies.
I've already caught myself watching movies on HBO and Showtime in HD that I normally would skip over, just because the picture is that good...I can see it now, watching a show about snakes on Discovery HD when it's available, even though I hate snakes!

They listed the channels in a Gazette article that I quoted a while back, and they are listed correctly on the Titan TV guide.

I went yesterday and got the 6200 box from Adelphia. Well, when I got home and hooked it up, I did not get any channels above 95. Well, I was ticked so I called Adelphia up to see what the deal was and they could not help me with it. Only thing they could do is setup someone to come out on Saturday and fix it up. Well, I took back the box and got another one to see if that would help and it did not. This seems to be a known issue with this boxes. Even the guy at Adelphia when I took the box back knew why I was there. Anyway, anyone have this type of problem or have any ideas how to remedy it?? Or do I have to wait until Saturday? Thanks all.

Originally posted by shippy1973
I went yesterday and got the 6200 box from Adelphia. Well, when I got home and hooked it up, I did not get any channels above 95. Well, I was ticked so I called Adelphia up to see what the deal was and they could not help me with it. Only thing they could do is setup someone to come out on Saturday and fix it up. Well, I took back the box and got another one to see if that would help and it did not. This seems to be a known issue with this boxes. Even the guy at Adelphia when I took the box back knew why I was there. Anyway, anyone have this type of problem or have any ideas how to remedy it?? Or do I have to wait until Saturday? Thanks all.

Same thing here. Got it, hooked it up. Only got basic cable. After an hour or so of waiting I called Adelphia. They where no help. They setup a tech to come the next day.

Then I'd say about 3-4 hours later I went back to check and I had all my channels again. Called Adelphia to cancel the tech call.

Here is my best guess. When you goto the local office and get a new box they fill out a form, write down the serial # of the box, etc. You sign the form then leave.

Really, in the amount of time she took to go in back and grab a box there is no way they set it up.

So a few hours later that paperwork made it’s way back to the desk of a tech who then went in and setup the authorization for that box to receive the channels you subscribe to.

So in other words, have patience.

Btw, never call the 1800 number if you have problems with the new HD boxes. After about a 30min conversation with the CS person, I got her to admit that no one there has a clue when it comes to the 5100 & 6200. =/

I'll see what happens when I get home today. As of last night, I did not any of those channels. I was curious if that was the case (authorization of the box) and had a feeling that might be true. We will see. I did leave the box on all night just in case.

sp0rk--I stand corrected; the box is a 6200, not a 5100.
Not that it's important, but any idea if the DVI port is active on this box? I know it's not on the 5100.

I don't know if people on this thread know that HDNet production and uplink facilities are in Denver. An AVSForum member in the Denver are has set up a tour for forum members next Wednesday at 4 PM. I will be going. There is room for more Colorado Springs members. If you are interested, check out the announcement towards the bottom of the following page:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28456&perpage=20&pagenumber=288

Roy

Too bad for Adelphia guys that you don't get HDNet. HDNet is simply awesome with the NHL every Tues and Friday, and basketball starting soon. ESPN HD for Sunday night football is the best. HBOHD is a nice channel, but Showtime in general is pretty worthless.

I can't wait to see what will be offered by next Summer. Adelphia better get ESPNHD and HDNet if they want to be competitive; here is hoping it is soon for those who don't have satellite.

HD hockey is the best. Too bad you have to watch the Avs on tape delay.

I spoke with a local Adelphia rep. this AM regarding local HD programming. She said that they are not working off of a specific timeline for introducing HD channels, that they'll be introduced as soon as possible and that the best way to become aware of them is to check the online guide from time to time. Sounds like most channels will be added in the 700-area. Channels such as NBC and ABC will be passed through in HD as soon as the local affiliates start to broadcast in HD. I did my best to convince her that we're all hungry for more HD programming as soon as possible! I know it will continue to get better, but the current selections leave much to be desired.

Is the Fox DTV channel supposed to be so out of sync with audio and video? I haven't noticed the problem on my other DTV channels. And their commercials are in sync....

Jack

I don't think so.. it is odd that the commercials aren't out of sync though. I haven't watched it except a bit of 24 since the World Series.


Looks like another MNF without HD or DT. They said two weeks and I think it's been about 4 now. I'll read up and check.

Looks like another MNF without HD or DT. They said two weeks and I think it's been about 4 now. I'll read up and check.

Your gonna have a long wait for MNF in HD around here, KRDO has no immediate plans to put an HD signal on the air, Digital yes, but not HD.

Originally posted by Jeremy Tebo
GUESS WHAT?

Here is the response I got from Jeff Thomas at KRDO - it looks like we're getting HD Monday Night Football soon! Yeah!

Hi Jeremy:
Thanks for thinking of us at News 13.

Our HD transmission is very close to being up and running. This is an extremely costly operation for a handful of people who have the expensive sets. You may be ready, but the vast majority of viewers do not have the expensive equipment.

Please be patient. It's going to be complete within the next two weeks.

Thanks again for your interest in News 13.

Jeff

Yep, it's been ~5 weeks now. O-well.

Originally posted by Frank Zimkas
Your gonna have a long wait for MNF in HD around here, KRDO has no immediate plans to put an HD signal on the air, Digital yes, but not HD.

Yah.. but I don't really believe that. They guy that told us that doesn't know the difference in my opinion. He says they'll be doing the same thing as KKTV... upconverting everything.

So you can look at it two ways:
1) He doesn't realize that KKTV does show HD.
2) They'll be doing what KKTV is doing: upconverting normally, and passing HD through when the network gives it to them.

I'll be optimistic and hope it's option #2.

I hope you're right and KRDO gets their act togethersoon, but based on past performance, I just don't see it happening soon. I'll be the first one to say how wrong I was if they do!

Yep, I've given up hope. I used to do a channel scan occasionally to see if it was up, but somehow I don't see it happening anytime soon. Does anyone remember what channel they have reserved for thier digital station? Someone posted a link to a list of digital channels a while ago, but the link doesn't work anymore.

TitanTV has it listed as channel 24.

( From Sep: )

Michael
we are building out our DTV transmitter over the next three weeks and hope to be broadcasting an up converted digital signal by Nov 03
thank you for viewing

Joe Reed
IT Manager
Pikes Peak Broadcasting


Sooo.. that would be today. :)

Key word: Hope. :)

I agree with Vaggeto, if they do the same thing as KKTV they'll be doing HD.

OK, I admit it - I'm going to go home and scan again, wishful thinking. Guess I was lying when I said I have given up hope. ;)

I just checked and still nothing. O-well... 5 weeks ago I was figuring if they said 2 weeks, thne they would probably be up in 5, but I guess not. I wonder if anything went wrong or if it's still legal problems.

Jeremy,

I provided the original link. The site has been moved to http://www.100000watts.com.

Unfortunately the site now requires a subscription which is not free to obtain this information.

-Mike

Do you remember if KRDO was 24 like Vaggeto says TitanTV has it listed?

I just talked to Joe Reed at KRDO.. he said they'd probably have a digital signal up by early next week. I asked about an HD signal, he said they had no current plans, and that it would be August 04 at the soonest...

*sigh* At this point, I assume no amount of emails, calls, or other correspondence will change their minds, but here's their contact page at KRDO. I guess some more prodding can't really hurt.

http://www.krdo.com/insidecontact.asp

August -- and that's probably if all the stars align. With realistic slippage in the timeline, what is that - between 12 and 18 months from now? The cheapskates at KRDO seem to be using KOAA as their model competitor instead of KKTV... I think we should try to get TV guy Warren Epstein to write a more comprehensive article in the Gazette about HD in general and then go into each local station's capability, or lack thereof. We need some help from some public relations peer pressure. {rant off}

I guess digital is better than nothing. So we think they will be upconverting the 4:3 picture as opposed to receiving an HD 16:9 picture from ABC and transmitting the 480p version of it? True widescreen would be good for football and Alias.

Note to self: reduce time watching ABC and NBC, increase time watching CBS and Discovery-HD and the occasional interesting HD program on HDNet and ESPN-HD.

Hmmm... if they can upconvert all regular programming to HD resolutions, does anyone know what stops them from passing through HD?

Just to confirm, I got this response to an email I sent yesterday...

"Michael: DTV any day now. Just waiting for some paperwork to clear. HDTV no firm date yet. C Upton. KRDO-TV"

Just a recommendation to anyone here that wants a great movie experience: Go see the Matrix Revolutions in the IMAX. Besides a few specs here and there, the picture was amazing. I have seen other movies in the IMAX, but this one made specially for the IMAX was amazing. The picture is extremely detailed and very large.
The sound was Very loud and also great. My only complaint is the bass. I never really felt the bass, but I only noticed I didn't feel it one time, and it never really bothered me. I think it could be the result of the middle high seat I was in though. I remember feeling much more base when seeing Bad Boys 2 and sitting in the 3rd row.

edit: The IMAX previews and the intro were also great.

My system can't find a KKTV-DT signal right now (Saturday, 2:00 pm). Anyone else?

I am getting it without problem. Crystal clear Mississippi/Auburn game.

Roy

And I'm still not getting it. Usually this happens with Fox but not with CBS. I've got to figure out whether my Samsung 160 receiver, my cabling through a diplexer, or my cheap antenna is the issue. Ugh. Thanks for ruling out a station problem for me.

Interesting that KKTV-DT's Buffalo-Dallas game has the background audio only (crowd noise, special effects, etc.) with no announcers' audio. It's been that way for at least 2 1/2 hours that I've noticed. The audio on regular standard def KKTV is fine and has the announcers on it. Must be a problem in CBS' HD truck today? I assume that the the DirecTV-HD feed would have the same problem?

{Don't know why my system has no problems receiving KKTV-DT today.}

Yep, I noticed that... it was nice for a little while :-)

I think it was most likely a local issue though, because the same game in HD on D* had the announcers the whole game.

I noticed the same issue with KKTV today, but the Directv-HD feed was fine so it was not a CBS production issue.

Then again... our local station doesn't get multiple sound signals... they pass through what they receive, so I'm guessing it might be a problem from the game that somehow takes place after D* gets the signal.

The DirecTV feed (Buffalo-Dallas Game) was 5.1 digital audio. Seems like KKTV was passing only the front left and right channels. In 5.1 the announcers were on the center channel. This is only a guess. The picture seemed to be the same on both feeds. Does KKTV ever broadcast in 5.1?

-Armando

Yes, they do. I also heard surrounds though, and I also thought I heard sound from the center speaker.

Glad KKTV is paying such close attention... If this had been a Broncos game, we would have all been trying to find another audio source (radio, cable, analog antenna or regular satellite channel) that was halfway in sync with to the HD video.

I'm not sure this was a KKTV issue. DO they have the ability to cut out only the announcers?

I can't imagine they do. What about the people who get it via cable, did they get commentator audio? That's strange that D* got audio, but I don't claim to know anything about that stuff.

You're right, it was kind of nice at first, just the sounds of the game. Then I started wondering what they were saying and flipped to SD.

I can't imagine KKTV could re-mix anything, but they could forget to pass through the 5.1 audio, right? The 5.1 vs. stereo thing makes the most sense. Maybe our receivers were taking the stereo audio from KKTV and were simulating the surround sound by sending it to all speakers. I didn't look that closely at what mode my receiver was in.

I don't think KKTV was remixing the audio either. The audio I was getting from them was 2.0 digital which means only left and right. On DirecTV all the announcing seemed to be coming from the center channel, but I didn't pay much attention to that. Next time I guess I can do a closer compare. Has anyone brought this up to KKTV's attention?

-Armando

Did anyone catch KRDO news last night? They did a feature on 50 years of operation. Jonathan Carrol compared the early days to today " with digital and high definition television just around the corner".

Hopefully, this means that they are getting the message that people want HD, not just upconverted SD.

Roy

Yeah, I saw the preview for that.. I laughed out loud when they mentioned High Def..

KRDO was broadcasting a signal today around 1pm on channel 24. It was an up-converted signal of some soap opera and wasn't on the air very long, I just happened to catch it when I did a channel scan.

Great!

I checked today and came up with nothing on 24. Wish I woulda caught it. Did you see how strong the signal was compared to the other channels?

Where are the KKTV, KYRM, and KRDO transmitters and how much power. Live in Castle Rock (high ground just east) and trying to see if I can receive. Of particular interest will be KRDO as it is an ABC affiliate! Thanks!!!

skyview - All 3 transmitters are on Cheyenne Mountain (I believe), at the southwest edge of Colorado Springs. If you haven't seen the earlier posts, KXRM (Fox) and KRDO (ABC) are digital but seem to be planning HD for at least 9 months from now, if not much longer.

Just ran a scan and pulled in KRDO! It displays as channel 13-1 (my Samsung doesn't display the channel 24 data). It's a soap opera right now, not stretched. I think the picture looks nearly identical to my regular KRDO feed from DirecTV so it's hard for me to say if they are really upconverting to a better PQ.

I wonder if they will leave the test signal transmitting over the weekend. Doubtful probably, but it would be nice to check out a prime time show and see if they send the 16x9 version.

Dito.. it comes in as 24 on signal meter, and when you go to 24-1 it remaps you to 13-1. I originally tried 13-1 and it was blank, but I didn't wait too long before tryig 24-1, so it might work.

As far as signal strength I'm getting 93 on CBS, 100 on Fox, and 100 on KRDO. It doesn't look like an upconvert though. Looks similar to Fox's digital with better colors but not nearly as much of an improvment as KKTV. I only saw a commercial though, maybe the shows will be better.
Also, the commercials were stretched, so I'll judge the the picture quality in a minute for the shows.


Edit update:

The channel is still going strong. I'm about 99.9% sure it's not an upconvert now. They stretch everything automatically like KKTV, and the channel is a decent improvement over the analog version. The audio seems the most improved though. 2.0 dolby digital that sounds MUCH better then the analog counterpart.

Also... I'm noticing a few weird video glitches. There seems to be some weird vertical lines mainly seen around faces. Not too apparent, but I see them. Also, it seems there is a ghosting effect to the right of images that goes out about 1-2" on my 65" RPTV.

I took a look at it yesterday and only had a signal strength of 50-55%. Other than being stretched, no diference from their NTSC broadcast. Time to start sending emails and requesting that they jump on the "HD BUS"!!

Thanks for into, not able to get any at this time at my Castle Rock location... will monitor thread for updates...

The channel was off air a bit after midnight last night. But it is back today. Looks like it's fully up and running.
Now I need to find out what shows ABC does in HD and hope :-)

The wonderfull world of Disney tonight will be in HD on the network. On their web site, their daily schedule indicates which shows are in HD. The web site is at http://abc.go.com/

The signal is coming in well for me also. The picture is not stretched right now. I'm not counting on KRDO passing through the HD signal any time soon. I would love to be wrong.

Roy

Hmm... the signal is stretched right now for me, and was 30 minutes ago, and has been everytime I have checked.

Are you sure it was like our fox digital with the black bars?

I'm also not planning on the show in a few minutes being in HD, but I do hope it is.

Too bad they "have no current plans for HD"..

Anyone know a status for PBS/NBC?

I just bought a Terk TV-55 antenna to test out HDTV reception - it's a small unidirectional with preamp (green, yellow, light green). I have a HDTV monitor, but not a tuner yet so I went to a friends house to try it out. All I can say is WOW!! HDTV is way better than DVD quality - the football game was broadcasted in HD on channel 10 (10.1) it was easy to get that station, but we couldn't get FOX channel 22 (21.1) at all (mostly due to location). If nobody has posted this web site, it was almost invaluable to me. It will give you the direction for each station, and what type of antenna you need for each channel. It's based upon your address and includes data for obstructions (my friend was way closer and has obstructions) and I can vouch for the data being fairly accurate due to my signal strength compared to his and what the web site reported. I don't have 5 posts yet, so it won't let me give you a hyperlink - you have to type it yourself - sorry.

Check it out:
antennaweb.org

www.titantv.com indicated that PBS (KTSC) is "Under Review." The last date that was shown a week or two ago was 1 Nov. 03. The channel is supposed to be 26, but it doesn't show up when I scan with my receiver.

NBC (KOAA) still hasn't done squat to get on the air. The FCC yanked their tower permit quite a while ago due to possible interference with another channel outside of our viewing area. It took them years to get their signal strength up to a level that made their station watchable so I can't imagine them moving very fast at all.

I double-checked tonight, and the KRDO-DT signal displaying as channel 13-1 is stretched or non-stretched depending on the Format mode of my Samsung SIR-TS160 receiver. I displayed the music awards show tonight as 16:9 Full and it was stretched to widescreen; 16:9 Pillar Box and it showed a 4:3 picture in the middle of the screen with gray bars on the left and right sides; and finally 16:9 Zoom which was zoomed in and you'd never want to watch it this way. Interesting that the choice of stretching is different from the comments of others above. Must be dependent on capabilities of the specific tuner.

This signal sent by KRDO-DT is different than the digital signals sent by KKTV and KXRM because on their channels the Samsung has no control over the stretching. KKTV-DT is always stretched for 4:3 material, and KXRM's digital signal has black bars for 4:3 material. I've always assumed the KXRM is actually sending the black bars as part of a 16:9 picture, since no setting on the Samsung or on the TV can change them. I think both my Samsung and my Mits TV are set to produce gray bars rather than black.

So far, this aspect-ratio flexibility is the only good thing I can see about the KRDO digital channel. The PQ is horrible, and it's not real 16x9, so what's the point of being digital? Maybe this is just their first technical step towards bigger and better things...:rolleyes:

The picture is terrible. Almost as bad as cable. Colors are the only improvement.

I'm guessing your box is receiving the 480i signal and lets you change it.

I'm not sure if I can. My E86 runs in stretch mode 99% of the time, and I know on HD sources I can't change the viewing mode. I'm not sure if fox digital is 480i, but I thought it was and that it adds the black bars. I'm confused now though. I thought I could change viewing modes on 480i sources. But I can't on KXRM and KRDO is now off air, so I can't test. But since some are reporting it's not stretched, I'm assuming it was my box doing the stretching.

Come to think of it, Fox digital is probably 480p and that may be why no one can stretch it.

Most likely... but then that messes up another assumtion I have always had.

When a Fox 480p widescreen program comes on, the picture quality of everything, including the commercials gets much better. So because of this I have assumed the standard channel was in widescreen 480i.
If they are always 480p, then there must be another reason for the picture quality increase.

KRDO-DT is now listed, along with KKTV-DT and KXRM-DT, in the digital channel list for Colorado Springs on www.titantv.com.

It identifies which shows are in HD even though KRDO is not passing through the HD signal. This makes it easy to identify what we are missing.

Roy

KRDO-DT
Is this channel up or what?
I get KKTV just fine here in Castle Rock, I tried today, and nothing.

KRDO-DT is on the air, but they are not broadcasting any HD programming nor are they planning to in the foreseeable future.

I wonder what happened to them claiming they would be upconverting?

The channel looks extremely bad to me. Probably worse than the compressed cable or D* version.

Thanx Frank, just strange, I can get all of the digital stations here inDenver except KMGH (ABC) nor KRDO (ABC). Hmm, I think there's a connection there. After almost three years after I jumped into the HDTV world, I have yet to see ANY ABC SHOWS IN DIGITAL . It's kinda of sick.

I watched a few of the WB's shows this week, EVERWOOD. REBA, nice stuff.


I can get NBC digital here also, so here's a question for ya, so do I have to see pigs fly to see a digital signal from KOAA any time soon?

What about KTSC? PBS is usually on the digital bandwagon.

I am still waiting on UPN here also, sometime soon maybe?

KOAA is not making any great strides toward DT. Their tower plans fell though and I haven't found any info that leads me to believe that they are going to be on the air anytime soon.

It seems that we are stuck in an endless loop. Local broadcasters don't want to make the investment because of the cost and they seem to think that no one in our little burg owns an HDTV. Retailers are not selling as many HDTV's as they could if more stations were broadcasting an HD signal. Those of us that adopted the format years ago are running out of patience because we've had a taste of what is available so now we are hooked like a back-alley junkie! We'll do just about anything to get a "fix!!"

So what do we do? HD on satelite works for me, but of course I'm a greedy HD bastage and I WANT IT ALL!!!! Keep sending emails to the stations in our area, perhaps they may actually read them on occasion. We all need to help ourselves as much as possible here folks. How many people that read/follow this thread actually take a few minutes of their time to contact the KOAA, KRDO, KTSC, etc. and let them know you are a faithfull viewer that wants to see their programming in HD? A show of hands please....hmmm! Not to many!!!

There have been lots of links/email addresses posted in this thread. Go back a few pages, pick one and fire off a polite mesage.

To quote John Belushi, "Who's With Me?!?!"

Hopefully pretty soon I will start a Colorado Springs DTV website with all the contact information etc...

About PBS:

I've seen a commercial from them specifically advertising HDTV sponsored by someone. I forget who though. The commercial shows the difference between SD and HD etc... I was hoping that meant they were at least into getting HD up and running.

I have been scanning for KRDO-DT and am not getting a signal. Are they on 24 hours a day, all week. And if so, what are their power numbers compared to CBS or FOX. My system says I have a signal strength of 58 for CBS on channels 10 and 50 for FOX on channel 22. I looked at channel 24, but my receiver doesn't see a signal there.

Thanks,

Jack

It seems they weren't up yesterday, but right now I am getting a 100 signal strength.

I'm just north of the AFA, so I don't expect to get a strong signal, I'm just wondering if KRDO is broadcasting DT with full power yet? since I don't get any signal.

Found this page:
http://www.rmpbs.org/status/

and in particular:
http://www.rmpbs.org/status/messages/155.html

"Posted by KTSC Engineering on November 07, 2003 at 16:53:12:

STATUS REPORT: KTSC Engineering Manager Ian Hartley reported today that mechanical modifications were completed at the KTSC transmitter building to provide ventilation for the new KTSC digital transmitter. The transmitter itself is in place awaiting the cooling, electrical and RF connections.

Testing of the transmitter is scheduled for mid-November, and the on-air date could come as early as December 2003.

Pictured: Cheyenne Mtn Tower that will hold the KTSC-DT transmit antenna. "

Nice work PlayDoh. Glad to see DTV still picking up around here. Now if we could just get KRDO to "keep up with the neighbors" (KKTV) and get HD...

Great... I hope they still consider this testing. I had figured it was since they only have it on until 11PM, but I second guessed that because TitanTV etc lists it as up and running.

I was surprised to a see a commercial for KKTV during the game yesterday about KKTV being the first local station to be on the air with a digital and HD signal. Anyone else catch it?

Missed it... good to see they are taking advantage of what they did.

Vaggeto's tagline has been answered. Broncos-Chiefs will be HD this Sunday on CBS.

Sweet. Sorry you guys will be rooting for the losing team though... Watch out for a guy named Dante.

Anyone see Eddie Kennison's comments in the sport section of the Gazette today?

I do believe he should have kept his pie-hole shut.


It's going to be a great game, HD or not!

Dante who? I don't think I've heard a word about him or the record since the Bronco game 9 weeks ago. Oh yah... I did see the kicker/punter tackle him one of those weeks. :-)

I agree... we're in for a good HD game! (I corrected my sig)

I'll have to read those comments... but I was told by Chiefs fan from here a few weeks ago that Clinton Portis guaranteed a win on the Best Damn Sports Show period before the Bengals beat the Chiefs.
I wish I could have seen that.

Also... aren't the Chiefs due for a SI cover this week.. we had it last time ;-)

Also... I have new hope for KRDO... I read they said ~Nov 7th that they were hoping to test starting mid-November and hopefully be fully running starting December, and because they are actually taking their Analog OTA signal, receiving it OTA and then making it into 480i digital, which is nothing near what they said they were going to do. (Upconvert the digital signal 24/7)

So I'm thinking they might actually use the real sigital signal soon, instead of an analog one (which explains why their digital channel looks so terrible.) I'm guessing this will be around the time they go live 24/7, which according to them should be soon. Unless they somehow, a week after saying they would test in November and hoped to be running in the start of December, got everything running as it is by mid-November and skipped the testing.

I was surprised to see that Denver is favored by 2.5 points. I think we're in for another good game.

So if they start using the digital signal, how long do you think it will take them to start passing HD? (That's all that really matters right?) :)

No idea... I hope they pass an HD signal when they go true digital. If they can upconvert to 720p/1080i 24/7.. why couldn't they receive the HD signal and pass it through? But remember... I am only guessing since I have no idea how all of this works.

I was also suprised to see they favored the Broncos by 2.5 points.

All of this hoping seems too optimistic based on what the one KRDO guy (albeit a clueless guy) said a month or two ago. He said digital soon, HD much later (like late 2004??) because of the cost and the few people that could receive HD (in KRDO's opinion). I've set my hopes back to zero for KRDO and KOAA. I think they basically don't have the money to put into any new HD equipment, until the FCC forces them.

Does anyone know what hours KRDO-DT is broadcasting OTA? Is it consistent? I assume they're on now, right? I'm going to the attic to try and adjust the antenna to bring it in.

Also, is KXRM-DT on the air less than 24/7?

Tallguy,
To be honest I don't even try to watch their DTV broadcast. No HD content means it's a waste of time. Their DTV signal isn't really any better than their NTSC signal.

It is on from sometime in the morning to 11PM. I wouldn't go through too much trouble unless you get poor reception of their analog signal. The only thing better on the DT version are the colors by a little bit.

BTW: Re: Fox sending 408i/p...
Remember we couldn't figure out if it was 480i/p because we couldn't stretch it? Turns out they are probably jsut sending widescreen 480i, which stops our systems from changing it. Not too smart if you ask me... if they take the black bars out then we get the choice to watch it in widescreen or not.

Great game today but the PQ was marginal at best. I wish that KKTV's picture was as good as ESPN-HD, HDNET, Disovery HD THEATER, ETC. I don't get any pixelation on any of the other channels. They really are "Reference Quality!"

Note to Eddie Kennison......How's that Shoe Leather tasting to ya?:D

On his touchdown pass, I was surprised that Eddie Kennison didn't QUIT on the route...

I'm sure he was thinking about it!

lol

Update from: http://www.rmpbs.org/status/messages/157.html

"Posted by RMPBS Engineering on December 03, 2003 at 14:12:06:

STATUS REPORT: The new KTSC digital TV transmitter on Cheyenne Mountain has been installed and tested. The next step is antenna installation on the tower (pictured) which should take place within the next several weeks.

Initially the station will transmit a simulcast of programs appearing on KTSC analog Channel 8. However, work is underway to get Rocky Mountain PBS HDTV signals to the transmitter early in 2004."

Is anyone in Monument, Black Forest, or Gleneagle getting the ABC DTV signal?

Not even receiving it in Briargate :(

KRDO-DT's been sporadic in Gleneagle. When my Radio Shack indoor antenna was in a certain spot a few weeks ago, I got it about half the time. Now I've moved the antenna a few times trying to make it better, and although the antenna's within inches of that same spot, it can't ever pull in KRDO-DT. If they were putting out a decent picture on it, I would really be bummed...

Also, my boss has a big mast antenna now in the Broadmoor area (not on the hillside but down on the flat part by Lake Ave.) and he doesn't get it either. And that's about 20 times closer to Cheyenne Mountain than I am.

Is it on or not?
Everyone consistenty receiving KXRM also?
KTSC should be live fairly soon....right?

Come on KOAA, get with the program!
Any word from KXTU? It's the same station, and yes UPN has two HDTV offerings, so they can't back out on us now!

KRDO-DT is on. It has been every day from sometime early in the morning until 11PM.

"Initially the station will transmit a simulcast of programs appearing on KTSC analog Channel 8. However, work is underway to get Rocky Mountain PBS HDTV signals to the transmitter early in 2004."

So I'm guessing they might have the antenna installed by around the end of the month, and might have HD going by around Feb-Mar?

I didn't think KRDO-DT was on until I read this. I had to pull my antenna out from behind my tube to pick it up tonight. It picks up Faux and CBS locals fine from behind it, am I correct in assuming KRDO-DT is broadcast at lower strength? When they first started broadcasting I picked it up easily without moving it. Oh well, no HDTV so who cares anyway...

Although I can get KRDO, it takes a my reveiver a lot longer to actually loc on to the signal and diplay the broadcast. Sometimes as long as 60 sec of black screen before an image appears and the signal strength was around 80% . Tried it lastnight during MNF, only find the local broadcast wasn't even stretched, nothing but 4:3.

Originally posted by Jeremy Tebo
I didn't think KRDO-DT was on until I read this. I had to pull my antenna out from behind my tube to pick it up tonight. It picks up Faux and CBS locals fine from behind it, am I correct in assuming KRDO-DT is broadcast at lower strength? When they first started broadcasting I picked it up easily without moving it. Oh well, no HDTV so who cares anyway...

I'm hoping they will boost the power so I can receive it, even without HDTV. The analog ABC picture is so snowy it is almost unwatchable. I have the same problem with the analog fox and CBS, but their DTV signals are watchable, even if their content isn't .

And I hope that PBS is going to be broadcasting a strong signal as well. They're not on the air yet, are they?

Jack

I will check for PBS... but I highly doubt they are on the air already. They said several weeks on the 3rd of this month for the antenna to be installed.

Well... I just checked signal strength and I'm currently getting 58 for KXRM and KKTV, and 100 for KRDO. Normally Fox and CBS are around 92-100. No signal around for PBS yet.

If any of you folks are interested, Mark Lamutt just started a thread with a review of the Beta Test that he was a part of for the Dishnetwork 921DVR over at DBStalk.com. Here's a link to the thread.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=21399

Wow!

Originally posted by Frank Zimkas
Dishnetwork 921DVR[/url]

Personally, having had E* products before, I'm awaiting the imminent arrival of the HD-TiVo. :D

Looks like in addition to the Sunday Night Broncos game on ESPN-HD, the following Sunday's Broncos-Packers game is going to be in CBS HD. Two in a row again! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300612

But then the first round of the wildcard playoffs are apparently on ABC, so Colorado Springs is screwed even if ABC does produce them in HD. Merry Christmas, KRDO! P.S. We love you too, KOAA!

I was glad to see that too... but was also mad ABC gets the playoff games which will be in HD. O-well maybe next year :-/

I caught part of the Pats vs. Jets last night on ESPN-HD. The PQ was beyond compare. Hope some of the engineers watch the Broncos game tonight, they might learn a thing or two about what HD should look like. No artifacts, no pixel issues and great 5.1 sound.

The current issue of S&V Magazine has a really great article regarding ESPN's HD efforts. A good read if your interested.

ESPN-HD is broadcast in 720P which is less susceptible to macroblocking
in high motion video, like football. And they are not limited to the 19.4 M/B
stream rate. Our particular MPEG encoder, a Tandburg E5821, will only
allow 17.46 M/B rate. This is to leave room for the sound, PSIP, and other
things. If you set the rate to high, you stand the chance over running
the receive buffer which causes freeze frame in the receiver.

Tim Timora
KKTV

Tim,
I knew about the 720p vs. 1080i with regards to PQ during rapid action scenes, but your info is excellant for those of us trying to understand the in's and out's of HD in general. Glad you jumped in, and I think we all could learn alot about KKTV's DTV broadcast if you would be able sift through some questions.

My question is this;

I'm watching KKTV-DT on a Mits 55" set and a Dishnetwork 6000 receiver. I see alot of pixelazation during close up shots of the CBS-HD football games and some of the primetime programming as well. There have been other posts with similar PQ issues. Is this caused by the signal you get from CBS, the available stream rate you mentioned, or something else? It gets a bit frustrating, not mention distracting as well. I'm sure the belly aching from viewers has the same effect on you guys though!;)

FWIW, I'm glad to see KKTV-DT advertising the fact that they are now on the air in 1080i. Kudos to you folks.

"I caught part of the Pats vs. Jets last night on ESPN-HD. The PQ was beyond compare. Hope some of the engineers watch the Broncos game tonight, they might learn a thing or two about what HD should look like. No artifacts, no pixel issues and great 5.1 sound. "

It was a great looking game, the only thing was the wide-shots were definently less detailed than then CBS-HD production on earlier in the day. ESPN-HD may not be limited to 19.3Mb/s.. but I think with any recordings it is shown that D* doesn't give it nearly that much.
Also, the D* version of the Sunday CBS-HD weekly game does pixelate less than KKTVs. I'm also pretty sure this is only getting a max of 19.3Mbps, and probably less. It still does pixelate on those closeup pans, but not as much as KKTV. That partially happens to be a flaw in the 1080i system all-together since it actually needs more then 19.3Mbps to not pixelate on fast moving scenes.

Also, ESPN doesn't have 5.1 surround sound, just their analog Circle Surround.

Tim, thanks for posting here! We really do appreciate an inside look at things that we can't fully understand.

Frank, do you really notice pixelation on the primetime shows? I haven't seen any with them in awhile on the shows, at least since KKTV fixed whatever they were doing in the beginning of the football season which left any semi-fast scene pixelated. Also, people in other cities aren't seeing this, so I have a feeling it has something to do with KKTV somehow. I agree though, I'm glad to see them advertising the fact that they are the first, and currently the only local station in HD.

BTW: I am basing all my ESPN-HD comments on watching it on D* through my E86 which upconverts it to 1080i for my Mitsu 65809 which doesn't handle 720p. I still haven't seen it on a 720p display.

I found this on the ESPN-HD site.

*In order to make the most of ESPN HD, look for a receiver with the SRS Circle Surround logo on the faceplate. ESPN HD uses this encoding system for their 5.1 surround sound track! Dolby Pro-Logic and Dolby Pro-Logic II decoders will also be able to produce a surround sound effect with the ESPN HD audio track.

Regarding the pixel issue, yes I do notice it during some of the primetime shows. It gennarally happens during close-up rapid action scenes, not as bad as watching a sporting event, but it is visible. Maybe it's because I'm watching on a bigger TV that makes it more obvious.

I see... I didn't think they actually claimed it was 5.1... I guess DPII is 5.1 then too, but I still consider DD5.1 to be on a level above CS or DPII.

I'm on a large TV too, 65". I will assume I haven't seen the pixelation because I just don't watch much of their primetime programming.

Something new I just noticed... KXRM-DT has guide data on 21-1... anyone else seeing this too?

Originally posted by Frank Zimkas
I found this on the ESPN-HD site.

*In order to make the most of ESPN HD, look for a receiver with the SRS Circle Surround logo on the faceplate. ESPN HD uses this encoding system for their 5.1 surround sound track! Dolby Pro-Logic and Dolby Pro-Logic II decoders will also be able to produce a surround sound effect with the ESPN HD audio track.


I wonder why they use this. There's no 5.1 for the Broncos on my system. :( I hadn't watched enough Sunday Night Football before to notice that our "regular" receivers can't get ESPN's 5.1 surround sound. When they say "surround sound effect" above, I guess they're just talking about the AV receiver's ability to send 2 channels to all speakers. It doesn't seem like surround to me.

Kinda strange, I'm only getting the "L" & "R" speakers indicated on mine tonight as well.

It was in surround for me, it's really VERY similar to Dolby Prologic II. I think a blind test was done and DPII was picked over Circle Surround.

What a game though! How about a rematch in two weeks with Clinton Portis and Griffin :-)
So now we have outplayed the 3 top teams of the AFC everytime we've played them this season. Two against the Chiefs, one against NE, and now one against Indy. We even shoulda won the NE game with Kanell.

Originally posted by chanceG
Personally, having had E* products before, I'm awaiting the imminent arrival of the HD-TiVo. :D

You too? I am just warning you, don't get in between me and the store on the first day of availability! :-)

--Ron

FYI - DirecTV announced on Thursday that the HD-DirecTiVo will be available in the first quarter of 2004. http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=12_18_2003A

Originally posted by Vaggeto
Something new I just noticed... KXRM-DT has guide data on 21-1... anyone else seeing this too?

Yes, I have the guide data for 21-1, and the interesting thing is -- it must not be coming from the signal itself because I haven't received that channel for at least 2 weeks. (Aforementioned antenna problems, hopefully to be solved Friday with a big honkin' antenna.) So my guide data must be coming in via DirecTV, either phone line or on the satellite feed, I'm not sure which. The guide data is exactly like what it picks up for the DirecTV SD channel 21, except that it shows "SIGN OFF" for midnight through noon each day on 21-1.

Speaking of guide data I don't totally understand, in the last week or so there is real guide data on the receiver (Samsung SIR-TS160) for KKTV-DT, but it's showing on channel 10 listed as KKTVDT (with no dash). Of course there's no picture on channel 10 but it has good guide data. I'm getting KKTV's HD picture on 11-1 listed as KKTV-DT (with a dash), with no guide data. I don't think the Samsung has any options to combine or map these together. The guide data showing now as channel 10 would be very nice to have on the right channel for when you change the channel to 11-1 -- besides the program info, the HD icon does show up correctly for the CBS shows that are HD. This must be coming via DirecTV but someone's set it up with the actual VHF frequency instead of the digital equivalent. Does anyone else have anything like this? I can't tell if it's specific to DirecTV's guide or to the Samsung receiver. Or if this guide data is a public common database, maybe it's the same on E*.

Of course, for 13-1 KRDO, there's no guide data at all.

Originally posted by rvaniwaa
You too? I am just warning you, don't get in between me and the store on the first day of availability! :-)

Me first, me first! :)

Having had a large DLP (HLN-567) since last summer, I'm chompin' at the bit to get HD content on it. I borrowed a buddy's OTA HD Rcvr last month and it looked fantastic. Too bad it won't be here for the Super Bowl. Can't wait!

Tallguy, I think it must be coming through the phone line. I've got the Sammy 160 (not plugged into the phone) and I don't show guide data for any of the 3 digital stations.

HD-TiVo would be sweet, but it looks like they're going to be costly. Can't remember where I saw it, but I think they were easily over $500 each. But to have a library of Bikini Destinations and all the new Sopranos in HD...

Originally posted by chanceG
Me first, me first! :)

Having had a large DLP (HLN-567) since last summer, I'm chompin' at the bit to get HD content on it. I borrowed a buddy's OTA HD Rcvr last month and it looked fantastic. Too bad it won't be here for the Super Bowl. Can't wait!

You sound just like me. I have an HLM-617 that I bought in April and my buddy brings by his DirecTV HD receiver every once in a while when we watch a game at my house. Boy is it beautiful!

--Ron

Originally posted by rvaniwaa
You sound just like me. I have an HLM-617 that I bought in April and my buddy brings by his DirecTV HD receiver every once in a while when we watch a game at my house. Boy is it beautiful!

Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Ooooh, the big dog. SoundTrack gave me 617 as a loaner for two months until my 567 came in. It sure was nice.

Originally posted by Jeremy Tebo
HD-TiVo would be sweet, but it looks like they're going to be costly.
Rumors from another thread are $899 for a Samsung and $699 for a Hughes with smaller recording capacity. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3061906&highlight=%24899#post3061906 Wonder how much I'll get for my Samsung 160 on eBay?

There are other threads with lots more HD-TiVo information.

Originally posted by chanceG
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Ooooh, the big dog. SoundTrack gave me 617 as a loaner for two months until my 567 came in. It sure was nice.

You guys need to get a real screen.

Try 106" front projection for size. :D Watching the Broncos in High Def on this screen is just like being there without freezing my toes off. Can't wait until Sunday!!

Russ

Hehe... what about when they're in SD?

Wonder how much I'll get for my Samsung 160 on eBay?

Looks like we could probably get $400 or so for them. Definitely a possibility for me to upgrade, we'll see.

Originally posted by Vaggeto
Hehe... what about when they're in SD?

For the most part, CBS is fine because it is digital. FOX too for that matter. I don't watch much other SD on that size screen. It is a theater meant for movies and high def events.

Originally posted by rajkej
You guys need to get a real screen.

Try 106" front projection for size. :D Watching the Broncos in High Def on this screen is just like being there without freezing my toes off. Can't wait until Sunday!!

Russ

Looks like you've got a PLV-70 according to your profile. I had the Studio Experience version (the 20HD) at my last projector shootout. How do you like it?

I finally went from a 92" DaLite High Contrast Cinema Vision to a 110" Firehawk with my demo Screenplay 7200 - great combo. The Firehawk really punches up the blacks and hardly washes out even during the day.

Anyone here check out VOOM? I'm using Adelphia HD and am waiting to go to satellite as soon as the PVRs finally become available. I watch so little TV mainly because I can't stand being ruled by a TV schedule - having to be in front of your TV at precisely 7 pm, etc. I am intrigued by VOOM's programming, even contacted them, but no word as to if and when they will come out with a PVR. Even so, anyone tried it? How is picture quality?

THANKS!!!

JOHN

I noticed KKTV-DT now has guide data like Fox now... Unless the stations started sending the guide data out, I'm 100% sure it is coming from D*. What you need to do is set your zipcode and in addition to the analog locals/cable locals having guide data, Fox and CBS now have it too. Kinda nice because I used to leave the one with the guide data there just for that guide, and then after I saw what was on it go up to the Digital OTA version. Now I can remove those.

John,
FWIW, I just got my Dishnetwork 921DVR the day before Christmas and have been going through all the features (at least trying to!) and am really pleased with it's performance. Being able to pause live TV, skip through commercials, replay, etc, ....I've been want one for a long time!!!!

Originally posted by angilasaurus
Looks like you've got a PLV-70 according to your profile. I had the Studio Experience version (the 20HD) at my last projector shootout. How do you like it?
JOHN

I have loved my PLV-70 ever since I got it just a few weeks into production. I had the standard problem with the filters so I had to install the pre-filter mentioned in the PLV70 thread. Other than that, the PQ is great for my uses (HDTV 1080i and DVD's). I use a Draper Cineperm 106" screen. I haven't really tried anything else to directly compare it with but when I see other theaters nothing has matched the PLV70.

Russ

Frank - thanks for the info on the 921DVR! I've been waiting for the HD-PVRs for years! Now may finally be the time to move to satellite.

Russ - Isn't front projection great? I simply love it, for picture quality and unmatched impact.

Do you use DVI with you PLV-70? If not, you might invest in some DVI equipped gear! I think AVS sells the Bravo DVD player, plus you can get the Samsung at places like Circuit City. A home theater PC works great as well, and has other advantages (I love my HTPC). In both of my shootouts involving the PLV-70/20HD, the DVI connection made dramatic improvements in picture quality in dark scenes. I don't know for sure whether or not it was from the superior deinterlacing and processing of the source, or just the fact that it is digital. All I know is it made a much more dramatic improvement on the LCD projectors than the DLP, which looked great on component to begin with.

JOHN