oh by the way, i get a lot of digital static/popping sounds on NBC17 as they change between the HD feed of the show and the SD feed for commercials. This is REALLY irritating when it's through my receiver, especially at louder volumes. Is there anything you can check on NBC17ENG with regards to this?

oh by the way, i get a lot of digital static/popping sounds on NBC17 as they change between the HD feed of the show and the SD feed for commercials. This is REALLY irritating when it's through my receiver, especially at louder volumes. Is there anything you can check on NBC17ENG with regards to this?
I'm aware of that noise from my NTSC switcher switching between us and Miami, but haven't heard it on HD switches. It's usually quiet when the HD switcher switches, but certainly can be a new issue. We are looking into the NTSC pops, and will look deeper into the HD pops. No problem.....

BTW, I've heard of this show Lost. Is it any good? I need to learn how to change channels on this remote thingy.

I've heard the audio pop on NBC17 but only when switching to/from a local commercial. Switching from a show to a national commercial does not pop. Only anything going to/from a local audio feed.

"Lost" is really good. But the problem is it's a continuing story like "24" on FOX. If you jump in without a refresher episode you'll be Lost. ;)

I've heard the audio pop on NBC17 but only when switching to/from a local commercial. Switching from a show to a national commercial does not pop. Only anything going to/from a local audio feed.
ok this is correct, it's mainly when switching to a local commercial. it's not something that's new by any means, so I doubt it's the new equipment.


"Lost" is really good. But the problem is it's a continuing story like "24" on FOX. If you jump in without a refresher episode you'll be Lost. ;)
That's what the DVD versions of previous seasons are for :) That's how I've (almost) caught up on 24 :)

What is up with receiving WRAL 5.1. I have a small amplified antenna. I can receive 4.1, 11.1 17.1 and 50.1 just fine. I'm in the 27713 zip code area of durham. According to antennaweb.org 50.1 and 5.1 are the same direction and distance. The only difference is the frequency assignment...

Any ideas or suggestions?

Ok guys, do your part and call Time Warner to Request National Geographic HD Channel. I have called and emailed.

Raleigh Office Phone 919-595-4892

Contact us form: http://www.timewarnercable.com/NC/customer/contactus/

What is up with receiving WRAL 5.1. I have a small amplified antenna. I can receive 4.1, 11.1 17.1 and 50.1 just fine. I'm in the 27713 zip code area of durham. According to antennaweb.org 50.1 and 5.1 are the same direction and distance. The only difference is the frequency assignment...

Any ideas or suggestions?

Sorry, no suggestions, but since I'm in 27713 also, what make/model antenna are you using? Do you have it on a particular side of the house (North, South, etc.)?

Sorry, no suggestions, but since I'm in 27713 also, what make/model antenna are you using? Do you have it on a particular side of the house (North, South, etc.)?

I have it on the north side of the house. This is a Terk amplified antenna. I actually didn't expect it to work, but this one(an old one I have) stated it was for FM/AM.
http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14140&langId=-1

I actually didn't expect it to work. However, since it pulled in all the other channels from the same direction and distance I just curious what is special about WRAL at 5.1.

Is it possible to use multiple antennas, then combine the signals with a combiner/splitter to form 1 coax feed?

Little OT but I must rant.

Rant #1. Has anybody noticed a large (more than average) drop in volume level on cable ch.30 (USA Network) earlier during this month. If I watch it using my surround system and forget to turn the volume down before changing to another channel I come awfully close to blowing something. This is rediculous.

Rant #2. Down here below Fayetteville our WB channel is a cable only WB (cable ch.15). We don't get WB22 of Raleigh (stupid FCC viewing area rules force us to use Florence/Myrtle Beach locals and have no local WB). I watch quite a few shows on WB (Smallville, Supernatural, Gilmore Girls, Life with Fran, Reba, Related and What I like about You just to name a few). I always use my surround sound system. About three weeks ago (on the 6th I think) My WB's audio started only coming out of my front left speaker. The rest of my channels audio that should be surround sound is right. I called the tech in Lumberton (my local hub who contacts the Fayetteville headend about it I assume) but it's still messed up (the guy I use to call in Lumberton would get stuff corrected quickly but he's no longer there now). I tried contacting CSR in Fayetteville to explain (as expected, she swears it's something wrong in my system). She should be a Secret Service agent for the President because thats the security they give their techs).

I explained to her I use an HDMI cable from HD box to tv. No left or right audio cables to come loose. I use a digital audio cable to my receiver (again, No left or right audio cables to come loose). I ask her how then if it's my system why the audio on all my other 100+ channels are in surround but that one channel (cable ch.15) has only left speaker audio? She says "I don't know but it's you system, we have no control over the audio" then wants to send a tech to check my stuff on a service call. I said it would be a waste of his time and my money. This is rediculious. She could easily inform one of their techs and let them look into it. I've been through this before and the guy in lumberton would contact Fayetteville and they'd fix it (usually a bad audio module, but he's no longer there).

Rant #3. I tried to get the CSR to allow me to speak with someone about the VBI data for TVGOS. All she would do is keep telling me the only EPG TWC offered was the guide on the cable box. I explained to her that I understood that and that TVGOS was program guide info sent through PBS station. She just kept insisting that they don't offer any other EPG besides the one on the cable box. I understand most CSR don't know hardly anything about this stuff and most don't give a darn about it or about learning it but they could atleast connect you with someone who might. It's infuriating grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

If anybody knows anybody in Fayetteville please inform them. I can't get through the gustapo. Rant over. :(

Is it possible to use multiple antennas, then combine the signals with a combiner/splitter to form 1 coax feed?

Yes - though results may vary. I have two antennas - one pointing toward Raleigh and the other toward Greensboro - combined into one cable, and I get all the stations I'm interested in.

However, antennas may interefere with each other, and even if they each receive the proper signals on their own, the signals may get messed up once the cables are combined.

But, yes, it can be done.

Well, apparently either someone (a TWC Customer?) here has connections in TWC of Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville or someone (an Employee?) of TWC must have read my post and spoke with someone in Fayetteville TWC. Because sometime after my last post (my insane rant) my cable ch.15 (WB) now has the stereo (surround sound) fixed and the audio on cable ch.30 (USA networks) isn't as low as it was.

Before ch.30's volume decreased I listened with my volume between -47 and -44. After the decrease I had to turn my volume up to -31 just to hear it. Now I'm back -41. Not quit up to the loudness like before it decreased but now I can atleast change the channel without fear of blowing my speakers or the receivers circuitry.

There is a 3rd possibility. That they just happen to fix the problem on both channels coincidently after I ranted here. But since I hadn't said anything to TWC about ch.30's volume level it's to big a coincidence they both get fixed together. So I'm gonna say Naaaaah! To big of a coincidence.

So, whoever is responsible for them being fixed (customer or employee) I want to say Thank You very, very Much!. I really do appreciate your help/assistance/time or whatever the case. :D

OT.

I have a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna for $50. I bought it with the Kworld ATSC card (separately) and I returned the card so now I have this antenna. Anyone interested?

Is it possible to use multiple antennas, then combine the signals with a combiner/splitter to form 1 coax feed?


No, I have not tried that. I have no way to combine the signals.

FYI

TRACKING NUMBER: 70021
Inquiry:When will you be adding more HD content?

Content like:
Universal HD
National Geographics HD
MTV HD
ESPN2 HD
WB/UPN HD

____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Response:We are scheduled to launch Universal HD on 2/1. We are currently in negotiations with ESPN2HD at a corporate level. WB recently announced a partnership with CBS to form a new network CW with programming from both WB and UPN which would impact any launch of WB and UPN HD in the near future. We will look into carriage of National Geographic HD and MTV HD.

Please let us know if we can be of any additional assistance.

Thank you for using Time Warner Cable.

Time Warner Cable Support
Raleigh, NC
919-595-4892
1-866-489-2669

So when will CW start broadcasting OTA in this area?

So when will CW start broadcasting OTA in this area? How is anyone supposed to know that? They havent even become CW yet.

and if Sinclair remain in control, CW-HD will never happen.

How is anyone supposed to know that? They havent even become CW yet.

So i guess the answer would be "not in the immediate future"..

So i guess the answer would be "not in the immediate future"..

I'm going with VisionOn. Never. At least for HD. We'll get ATSC in standard def at the absolute minimum wattage dictated on the last possible day it must be available.

So when will CW start broadcasting OTA in this area?
The Press Release said Sep2006 for beginning of the combined CBS-Warner network broadcasts.

well i was looking forward to watching the state of the union on CBS in HD but someone at the raleigh office must have plugged FOX audio into CBS. i had fox audio comming out of my surrounds and cbs audio comming out of my center. when will these people get there acts together?

well i was looking forward to watching the state of the union on CBS in HD but someone at the raleigh office must have plugged FOX audio into CBS. i had fox audio comming out of my surrounds and cbs audio comming out of my center. when will these people get there acts together?

Seems to be fixed now.

well i was looking forward to watching the state of the union on CBS in HD but someone at the raleigh office must have plugged FOX audio into CBS. i had fox audio comming out of my surrounds and cbs audio comming out of my center. when will these people get there acts together?
I noticed that myself. I only had audio coming out of the rear channels and background noise from the front and nothing from the center. In fact, TWC 211 is the only one that had it correct.

Is that why the audio levels where so skewed? maybe this was just a Durham thing, but the audio levels kept changing, like when they would display extra graphics on the screen. I gave up and went to ABC.

Slightly off-topic to HDTV but interesting for us locals none-the-less.
http://www.wral.com/news/6652148/detail.html

WRAL is going to make available over the internet their broadcast.

Please Call WTVD and ask them to broadcast the Super Bowl in full 19.3 HD. Their HD station gets about 12 mb/s of bandwith now because of multi casting. Other markets are doing it for the Super Bowl.

WTVD
P.O. Box 2009
Durham - Raleigh, NC 27702-2009
(919) 683-1111

Anybody see UHD yet? It was added to the EPG sometime before 11pm lastnight (Tuesday night) but it's just a gray screen so far.

Also they finally removed the "No Data" Trio channel from the EPG. :)

Anybody see UHD yet? It was added to the EPG sometime before 11pm lastnight (Tuesday night) but it's just a gray screen so far.

Yep. Just checked it. It's coming in fine on TWC 295.

Yep. Just checked it. It's coming in fine on TWC 295.

Ok Thx. Apparently Fayetteville's headend either hasn't turned it on or is having problems.

Please Call WTVD and ask them to broadcast the Super Bowl in full 19.3 HD. Their HD station gets about 12 mb/s of bandwith now because of multi casting. Other markets are doing it for the Super Bowl.

WTVD
P.O. Box 2009
Durham - Raleigh, NC 27702-2009
(919) 683-1111

Will that benefit signal strength at all?

Ok Thx. Apparently Fayetteville's headend either hasn't turned it on or is having problems.

They (Fayetteville hub) finally got UHD turned on shortly after my last post (~45 minutes ago). But no Sleuth channel. Dads dissappointed, he loves mysteries.

Will that benefit signal strength at all?

Won't help signal strength but can noticably improve the pictures quality (crisper with more detail and depth)

Anybody see UHD yet? It was added to the EPG sometime before 11pm lastnight (Tuesday night) but it's just a gray screen so far.

Also they finally removed the "No Data" Trio channel from the EPG. :) its been on since 10pm last night here in raleigh.

Doubtful since WTVD just launched their Eyewitness News Now channel on 11.3, but you never know... They might kill 11.2 for the game.

Just got off with WTVD (ABC), they are going to increase their HD bandwith from 12 mb/s to 16 mb/s for the SuperBowl. They said that TW might limit their transmission to 12 mb/s because of their bandwith limitation. We OTA folks should be getting a full 16 mb/s.
Their engineer said that this has been a popular subject lately.

Just got off with WTVD (ABC), they are going to increase their HD bandwith from 12 mb/s to 16 mb/s for the SuperBowl. They said that TW might limit their transmission to 12 mb/s because of their bandwith limitation. We OTA folks should be getting a full 16 mb/s.
Their engineer said that this has been a popular subject lately.

Wonderful news. Thanks for the update.

Anybody see UHD yet? It was added to the EPG sometime before 11pm lastnight (Tuesday night) but it's just a gray screen so far.

Browsing the scehdule it appears it should be called the "Knight Rider/Quantim Leap channel"... to go along with the "Law and Order/NBA channel" on 281...

with apologies to fans of said shows.. could we get quality HD content instead of quantity?? ;)

I had to reboot my box to get it to download the schedule.

Mike

Browsing the scehdule it appears it should be called the "Knight Rider/Quantim Leap channel"... to go along with the "Law and Order/NBA channel" on 281...
Mike

LOL, Agreed. :D

Browsing the scehdule it appears it should be called the "Knight Rider/Quantim Leap channel"... to go along with the "Law and Order/NBA channel" on 281... Mike

Yep, that's my observation also. When they gave us a preview a few months ago, I saw a lot of cancelled series that I liked such as "Karen Cisco". Wonder what happened to that. I didn't like Knight Rider and Quantum Leap when they were new.

It appears that WTVD has negated 11.2 in advance of the Super Bowl on Sunday.

It appears that WTVD has negated 11.2 in advance of the Super Bowl on Sunday.

Neat-O!!! :D

Neat-O!!! :D


Well, better than nothing I suppose, but they could have gone the whole distance to 19.3 Mbps. I'll keep these free passes that I had set aside for the WTVD staff.

Well, actually, they turned 11.2 back on late this afternoon. They must have been testing it out for the game on Sunday.

In the recent past, I've noticed some audio video sync problems on WTVD 11.1 (ota) when using my LG 3100 ATSC tuner. However, most recently, I haven't been seeing as many problems.

Has anyone else experienced intermittent problems with WTVD's HD channel on 11.1 with respect to a/v sync? I'm not sure if the problems I'm seeing can be explained by a buggy tuner or if those type of issues most likely come from the broadcaster. I should think the later, but I fear the former.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I haven't noticed the a/v synch problem on 11.1; I've noticed it on their subs though.

I haven't noticed any sync errors on 11.1 (cbl ch.211).

Well, actually, they turned 11.2 back on late this afternoon. They must have been testing it out for the game on Sunday.

Yep, I noticed that. Guess we'll know Sunday for sure. :)

Just got off with WTVD (ABC), they are going to increase their HD bandwith from 12 mb/s to 16 mb/s for the SuperBowl. They said that TW might limit their transmission to 12 mb/s because of their bandwith limitation. We OTA folks should be getting a full 16 mb/s.
So wait, even though TWC would never admit to doing anything that degrades PQ, they do in fact limit the bandwidth of HD channels to 12 mb/s? Ive only had HD through cable, but that makes it sound like I might be missing out by not getting my locals OTA.

So wait, even though TWC would never admit to doing anything that degrades PQ, they do in fact limit the bandwidth of HD channels to 12 mb/s? Ive only had HD through cable, but that makes it sound like I might be missing out by not getting my locals OTA.

Ditto what he said. I've been following this thread for quite a while and I've never seen what the big deal was about ota. I'm starting to see if the HD pq through TWC is not as good as ota. Is this correct?

I just went to the Universal HD site and clicked on "Contact Us" to ask them a question about a particular series. I received a response from them that referred me to their "FAQ" and stated that they don't answer individual email. My question is: "Why do they ever have a "Contact Us" link on their site?"

Well, better than nothing I suppose, but they could have gone the whole distance to 19.3 Mbps. I'll keep these free passes that I had set aside for the WTVD staff.

I'm not the expert on this; however, 720p does not require 19.3 Mbps to be at full bandwidth (1080i does). I'm not sure what the bandwidth constraints are around 720p.

I'm not the expert on this; however, 720p does not require 19.3 Mbps to be at full bandwidth (1080i does). I'm not sure what the bandwidth constraints are around 720p.
720p doesn't have a "maximum" bandwidth for usability. Rather, the idea is this: How good can you get the audio and video to appear using the bandwidth that's been allocated to you? The answer is: it depends on the encoder that's used to compress the source and how that encoder is constrained.

The FCC allows for a broadcaster to send up to 19.3 Mb/s across a 6 MHz channel in any HDTV format when going over the air (ATSC). Cable companies use QAM (a different method of signal modulation) and can send 39 Mb/s of data or digital information through the cable that same 6 megahertz TV channel.

Each broadcaster can then elect to divide that bandwidth up just about any way they want to. If the OTA broadcasters wanted to use up the entire 19.3 Mb/s allocation for their HD content, they'd have no room for other streams inside their 6 MHz channel.

As far as the encoders themselves are concerned: Everyone who manufacturers encoders tends to do things a bit differently and most of those manufacturers (who have good stuff) consider the encoding process an artform. Getting good picture quality squeezed into as little bandwidth as possible is the obvious goal. However, it's entirely possible for a bad encoder to produce something that looks half as good as someone else's good encoder using half the number of bits.

So wait, even though TWC would never admit to doing anything that degrades PQ, they do in fact limit the bandwidth of HD channels to 12 mb/s? Ive only had HD through cable, but that makes it sound like I might be missing out by not getting my locals OTA.

The stations themselves are limiting their own bandwidth by multicasting. My understanding is that TWC transcodes the signal transparently from 8VSB to QAM modulation, and but does not tinker with the integrity of the data stream.

I view the locals three ways, through my TWC Pace 550HD set top set to "pass through" resolution (important), directly on my built in clear QAM tuner, and directly on my built in ATSC tuner off air.

There isn't a nickels worth of difference to my eye, and I'm pretty picky.

720p doesn't have a "maximum" bandwidth for usability. Rather, the idea is this: How good can you get the audio and video to appear using the bandwidth that's been allocated to you? The answer is: it depends on the encoder that's used to compress the source and how that encoder is constrained.

The FCC allows for a broadcaster to send up to 19.3 Mb/s across a 6 MHz channel in any HDTV format when going over the air (ATSC). Cable companies use QAM (a different method of signal modulation) and can send 39 Mb/s of data or digital information through the cable that same 6 megahertz TV channel.

Each broadcaster can then elect to divide that bandwidth up just about any way they want to. If the OTA broadcasters wanted to use up the entire 19.3 Mb/s allocation for their HD content, they'd have no room for other streams inside their 6 MHz channel.

As far as the encoders themselves are concerned: Everyone who manufacturers encoders tends to do things a bit differently and most of those manufacturers (who have good stuff) consider the encoding process an artform. Getting good picture quality squeezed into as little bandwidth as possible is the obvious goal. However, it's entirely possible for a bad encoder to produce something that looks half as good as someone else's good encoder using half the number of bits.

Well put. So in the end WTVD is going to give us a 33% improvement, from 12 to 16 Mbps, over their usual transmission rate for whatever it is worth to our viewing experience. Everyone's results will vary.

"Why do they ever have a "Contact Us" link on their site?"

To harvest your email address? :)

Drew

The stations themselves are limiting their own bandwidth by multicasting. My understanding is that TWC transcodes the signal transparently from 8VSB to QAM modulation, and but does not tinker with the integrity of the data stream.

I view the locals three ways, through my TWC Pace 550HD set top set to "pass through" resolution (important), directly on my built in clear QAM tuner, and directly on my built in ATSC tuner off air.

There isn't a nickels worth of difference to my eye, and I'm pretty picky.
Picking the (probably Transcoded) ATSC broadcast signal off the air isn't the only method available.
Some stations use a direct link from the local broadcast station to the TWC Headend that may or
may not involve a Transcoder, which is obvious when the station is still on cable after a transmitter failure.

In either case, at the TWC Headend, a separate Transcoder is used to remultiplex more than one program onto each QAM carrier.

You have the ability to determine how many HD and SD programs share each QAM carrier via the Extended Diagnostic Menus.
Tune to each HD program, change to EDM to view QAM freq.

On the TWC-San Diego system, we have three local HD programs on one carrier and two local HD programs plus two SD programs on another.

You also have the ability to determine the average bitrate that has been allocated to each channel.
Using an HD-DVR, use the Extended Diagnostic Menus to check to see how many MBITS are left on the HDD.
Delete a selected program and recheck how many MBITS are left...the difference is the number of MBITS required to record the program.
Divide by the duration of the program and the result is the average bitrate.

You can use an OTA HD-DVR (e.g. TiVo) the same way to measure OTA average bit rate.

Here are some results comparing DirecTV to OTA in Dallas:
http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html
and here are Dishnet bitrates:
http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/bitrate.html
Note which programs are in HD-LITE (1280x1080) vice TRUE-HD (1920x1080).

And here are results using TSREADER with a PC ATSC Tuner card to analyze before/after the local KPBS-DT's
ATSC stream tries to do too much:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/79/4390.html#POST22672
and this post uses HD-DVR method to analyze TWC-SD:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/2716.html?1107925436

I'm starting to see if the HD pq through TWC is not as good as ota. Is this correct? na, not here in Raleigh its not. i get my locals 2 ways. threw the 8300 STB and via OTA antenna. the PQ is identical.

Yep. Just checked it. It's coming in fine on TWC 295.

Not for me. I get a pixelated mess using TWC's SA8300HD.

What cable box are you using?

Maybe I have crappy signal strength because I often must power cycle my cable modem too.

Sooke

Not for me. I get a pixelated mess using TWC's SA8300HD.

What cable box are you using?

Maybe I have crappy signal strength because I often must power cycle my cable modem too.

Sooke

I have the SA8300HD DVR box. Just checked it and the picture and sound are fine. I haven't watched it for an extended period of time though (not a fan of Quantum Leap and Knight Rider).

Yeah! WTVD shut 11.2(cbl ch.212) down sometime within the past hour and TWC has removed(turned off) 212. Even my QAM in the Clear tuner isn't seeing it (although it is detecting a signal strength ~70%). Higher bitrate for Superbowl OTA atleast! :D

Yeah! WTVD shut 11.2(cbl ch.212) down sometime within the past hour and TWC has removed(turned off) 212. Even my QAM in the Clear tuner isn't seeing it (although it is detecting a signal strength ~70%). Higher bitrate for Superbowl OTA atleast! :D

Yes and the PQ is very good too.

Yes and the PQ is very good too.

Yes the pq is very good. They ought to deep six channel 212 all of the time if it makes this much difference in pq.

Yes the pq is very good. They ought to deep six channel 212 all of the time if it makes this much difference in pq.

Amen!

Yes, PQ is much better. However, in the US, "more" and "bigger" seems to always beat "quality" and "performance".

The question is this: Just how many weather channels do we really need????

Yes, PQ is much better. However, in the US, "more" and "bigger" seems to always beat "quality" and "performance".

The question is this: Just how many weather channels do we really need????

Yep, I have to agree. Last night's game showed how good HDTV "could" be. I think that what we normally see is quantity over quality. Does anyone even look at the weather channel(s) anyway? They contain prerecorded weather and an absolute over-kill of useless graphics. After all, channel 14 has live weather every 10 minutes. How much weather do we need?

Kudos to WTVD for shutting down their sub-channel during the game. It made a very noticeable difference. I thought the PQ was right on par with CBS (HUGE surprise to me).

Yep PQ was damn good!

I think UniversalHD is being previewed for free this month to basic subscribers, right? If so, does anyone know what QAM channel its being broadcast on, and if its encrypted, or broadcast in the clear like the local HDs?

I think UniversalHD is being previewed for free this month to basic subscribers, right? If so, does anyone know what QAM channel its being broadcast on, and if its encrypted, or broadcast in the clear like the local HDs?

Good question. Anyone?

I think they encrypted universal HD since it is part of the HD Suite package - doubtful they would open it up for all.

I think they encrypted universal HD since it is part of the HD Suite package - doubtful they would open it up for all.

Free preview for February. After that it's back to the Suite.


HD Suite:

Time Warner Cable's Premium HD package - Click here for more information!

* Ch. 290 - ESPN HD
* Ch. 291 - INHD
* Ch. 292 - INHD2
* Ch. 293 - HDNet
* Ch. 294 - HDNet Movies
* Ch. 299/502 - HD Movies On Demand
* Ch. 295 Universal HD -
Watch a Free Preview of Universal HD the entire month of February!

I got to say that, even though the content sucks most of the time, Universal HD has about the best picture of any of the HD channels.

I got to say that, even though the content sucks most of the time, Universal HD has about the best picture of any of the HD channels.
na, i dont agree. its pretty good but HDNET and INHD usually have the best PQ. all the primetime sitcoms on CBS are flawless too. check out CSI Miami tonight at 10. you cant ask for a better picture then that.

I just looked at the listings on WRAL, and it looks like tonight's UNC vs Duke game will be in SD, thanks to Raycom/Jefferson Pilot. Grrr.. Do we have any idea when they might upgrade to HD?

I wish WRAL would loan Raycom/JP a camera crew so we could see the ACC games in HD

BTW, it looks like they are also screwing us out of even having the option to pay for ESPN-HD to watch the ACC tournament in HD: http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news.php?page=2005-2-1~2005-2-28

Drew

Speaking of WRAL ... have any other OTA viewers had any problems with WRAL's PSIP (guide info) over the past several days? I seem to get guide data for everything else, but I'm missing WRAL's info. At least, that was the case last night. I haven't bothered to check it today yet.

Yeah, WRAL hasn't had PSIP for about a week now. Wish somebody at the big 5 would check that out once in a while. All stations seem to be plagued with that problem at some point; gotta love new technology!

I just have to point out something. NBC has really gotten there act together. I was watching leno last night and the PQ was just as good at letterman on CBS. A few other shows on NBC are now pretty much perfect whereas before they were very much pixelated and seem to have a "fog" appearance. Anyone else notice how much better NBC PQ is?

I just have to point out something. NBC has really gotten there act together. I was watching leno last night and the PQ was just as good at letterman on CBS. A few other shows on NBC are now pretty much perfect whereas before they were very much pixelated and seem to have a "fog" appearance. Anyone else notice how much better NBC PQ is?

Absolutely! Two thumbs up!

I just looked at the listings on WRAL, and it looks like tonight's UNC vs Duke game will be in SD, thanks to Raycom/Jefferson Pilot. Grrr.. Do we have any idea when they might upgrade to HD?

I wish WRAL would loan Raycom/JP a camera crew so we could see the ACC games in HD

BTW, it looks like they are also screwing us out of even having the option to pay for ESPN-HD to watch the ACC tournament in HD: http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news.php?page=2005-2-1~2005-2-28

Drew

I have the same feelings. I wasn't in a hurry to hear Dicky V's voice but I was amazed to turn to channel 290 (ESPN-HD) and see a completly blank screen for 2 hours. I'm usually at this game so I have never had to worry about this before. If they're goign to blackout ESPN-HD and force us to listen to their choice of commentary and commercials, the least they could do is provide a High Def. broadcast. I ranted about the same thing this morning on a message board here at work and someone said they saw it in HD on Wral 5.01...... can I assume that this person uses an over the air tuner and just didn't understand they were watching standard def. over an HD feed, or am I really missing something here. I use TWC by the way so I watched on 255 (WRAL-HD).
Thanks,
Troy

I just have to point out something. NBC has really gotten there act together. I was watching leno last night and the PQ was just as good at letterman on CBS. A few other shows on NBC are now pretty much perfect whereas before they were very much pixelated and seem to have a "fog" appearance. Anyone else notice how much better NBC PQ is?

yep a huge improvement, thanks to NBC17ENG being one of the few people who takes notice of us whining. Even the regular SD channels are good now.

I have the same feelings. I wasn't in a hurry to hear Dicky V's voice but I was amazed to turn to channel 290 (ESPN-HD) and see a completly blank screen for 2 hours. I'm usually at this game so I have never had to worry about this before. If they're goign to blackout ESPN-HD and force us to listen to their choice of commentary and commercials, the least they could do is provide a High Def. broadcast. I ranted about the same thing this morning on a message board here at work and someone said they saw it in HD on Wral 5.01...... can I assume that this person uses an over the air tuner and just didn't understand they were watching standard def. over an HD feed, or am I really missing something here. I use TWC by the way so I watched on 255 (WRAL-HD).
Thanks,
Troy

Yes. In fact, the game wasn't available in HD at all. Even ESPN broadcasted the game in SD last night.

yep a huge improvement, thanks to NBC17ENG being one of the few people who takes notice of us whining. Even the regular SD channels are good now.

My NBC 17 is coming in real good too these days. I had lead myself to believe that it was a result my having over-engineered my antenna and moving it from inside the attic to an outside roof mount in preapartion for the Olympic Games. :-)

Did NBC 17 increase their power level are are they still at half power ?

Yes. In fact, the game wasn't available in HD at all. Even ESPN broadcasted the game in SD last night.

I believe that you will find that since the primary contract belongs to JP Sports, anyone carrying the game must ride the coatails of the primary carrier. JP has no HD capabilities. :(

Isn't it time for the JP contract to be up for renewal yet? We've sailed with the pilot in 480i for 30 years. Enough is enough! LOL

Isn't it time for the JP contract to be up for renewal yet? We've sailed with the pilot in 480i for 30 years. Enough is enough! LOL
Unfortunately, not until 2010-2011. From http://www.raycomsports.com/companyhistory.htm:

"Raycom Sports and Jefferson-Pilot Sports have the full ACC men's basketball television rights and syndicated football rights secure through the 2010-2011 academic year."

Unfortunately, not until 2010-2011. From http://www.raycomsports.com/companyhistory.htm:

"Raycom Sports and Jefferson-Pilot Sports have the full ACC men's basketball television rights and syndicated football rights secure through the 2010-2011 academic year."

And the really annoying thing is that on the same page you find this:
"Raycom Sports has been visionary in its use of new production techniques...and on December 3, 1999 the company was the first to telecast a college basketball game in high definition television (HDTV)."

I wonder why they stopped.

Drew

I wanted to update the thread on my quest to get a workable firewire (IEEE1394) connection from a STB. FINALLY, I have success.

Unbelievably, it took ANOTHER three visits from TWC to get it right. I thought that after I had talked with the helpful tech and the knowledgeable customer service guy two weeks ago (I have names if anyone wants to know who to ask for) TWC would get it right on their next visit. But no, they were now stymied by the dispatcher who insisted that TWC didn’t have such an animal (who then had to be educated again by myself and the CSR). Needless to say, this was a phenomenal failure, but a huge learning experience for the TWC people. I’m still mystified somewhat by their request that I not “tell anyone we can do this” remark. Yeah maybe only 1-2% of their customers have this kind of need, but since it’s basically an off the shelf product, I don’t see what’s the big deal.

SO, now I can record hi-def content from a SA3250HD STB to my Mitsubishi DVHS unit and then play it back on my firewire equipped Samsung HLR5078 DLP HDTV in hi-def splendor. As my SA8300HD DVR is already clogged with saved programs, I need this capability especially with the Olympics starting this weekend.

What is incredible to me is the number of TWC people (even Level 3 techs!) who kept telling me that they either didn’t provide the equipment, or didn’t have any idea what I was talking about. I’m hoping my pain will be someone else’s gain here on the forum. Good luck to anyone attempting this!

And the really annoying thing is that on the same page you find this:
"Raycom Sports has been visionary in its use of new production techniques...and on December 3, 1999 the company was the first to telecast a college basketball game in high definition television (HDTV)."

I wonder why they stopped.

Drew



Is it too late to start an online petition / email campaign / something to compel them to bring us at least the ACC tournament in HD?

It's really frustrating to know that, come tournament time, we in the ACC area will be getting an inferior product than the rest of the country, since ESPN will undoubtly broadcast the tournament in HD like last year and we will blocked out of that.

Anyone notice last night on the Guide that only ABCHD was available. It didnt have the ABCSD that is usually listed right under it.

Anyone know if FSN-HD is available? News-observer claimed the Hurricanes game was being shown on channel 292 (INHD2) but I only noticed that after the game.

Also, isn't it time for WB to be in HD?

I also hate to have SD ESPN and have to pay for HD ESPN (without the option for ESPN2HD).

Anyone know if FSN-HD is available? News-observer claimed the Hurricanes game was being shown on channel 292 (INHD2) but I only noticed that after the game.

Also, isn't it time for WB to be in HD?

I also hate to have SD ESPN and have to pay for HD ESPN (without the option for ESPN2HD).
the WB wont exist much longer. its merging with UPN to become 1 network. once that happens we will prob have it in HD.

Anyone know if FSN-HD is available? News-observer claimed the Hurricanes game was being shown on channel 292 (INHD2) but I only noticed that after the game.

292 (INHD) had the game on in HD

NBC17ENG,

Thanks for the great work you've done in improving the PQ of NBC-17 during the last couple of weeks. It is MUCH better. Would it be possible to shut down the sub-channels during primetime Olympic coverage?

Shutting down the WTVD sub-channel during the Superbowl made a tremendous difference in PQ. Since 1080i requires more bandwidth than 720p, I would assume a significant improvement in PQ would be the result for WNCN as well.

Thanks in advance.

Jeff
Cary, NC

Well, it is strange that the News & Observer called 292 as FSN-HD. To me it implied that the channel would be available for non HD subscribers.

Also, isn't it time for WB to be in HD?


It is in HD when you get it over the air. But be warned that you need a good antenna and some luck to be able to pick up WB22's low-power signal.

Drew

NBC17ENG,

Thanks for the great work you've done in improving the PQ of NBC-17 during the last couple of weeks. It is MUCH better. Would it be possible to shut down the sub-channels during primetime Olympic coverage?



Perhaps, but my wife complained that the sound on the HD version of Martha Stewart has been cutting so frequently that she had me re-program the DVR to record the non-digital broadcast. Plus, there were numerous episodes of pixelation on last night's ER. This is via Time-Warner cable and a SA8300HD DVR/STB.

Perhaps, but my wife complained that the sound on the HD version of Martha Stewart has been cutting so frequently that she had me re-program the DVR to record the non-digital broadcast. Plus, there were numerous episodes of pixelation on last night's ER. This is via Time-Warner cable and a SA8300HD DVR/STB.

I was noticing minor "hiccups" on several channels last night as well. My reception has been rock solid, except on HDNet and HDNets Movies, but they seemed to have corrected those recently. Anyone else???

i noticed a little hiccups last night but not much. Earl and the office where pretty flawless.

It is in HD when you get it over the air. But be warned that you need a good antenna and some luck to be able to pick up WB22's low-power signal.


If it is available over the air, why TWC still doesn't have it? Frustrating. Like trying to get an answer why ESPN2 HD is not available yet.

The WB does not broadcast in HD in the Raleigh-Durham area.

Quick question.

I can recieve all my locals in HD via my TV's built in HD Tuner. I also can recieve my HD locals via Time Warner Cable.

Im am currently using Time Waner for all my HD but I feel Like my TV's HD tuner is going to waste because Im not using it.

Im pretty sure that Time Warner here in Raleigh does not compress the local HD signal at all so im sure the quility of OTA HD and Time Warner HD would be about the same.

My question is this. By using OTA HD I would be cutting out the middle man (Cable Company) and getting my signal right from the source (TV station).

Also by using OTA my signal would come right into my TV. It wouldnt have to travel threw the 8300 STB and the component cable.

Just wondering what your guys thought are. Thanks

The WB does not broadcast in HD in the Raleigh-Durham area.

Yes, it does. TWC just doesn't carry it, and it is very low power and hard to get OTA. I record "Reba" for my wife 3x per week in HD OTA from WB22.

It is UPN that does not broadcast in HD here in the triangle. If you want UPN in HD, you can sometimes get the station to our west in Winston Salem. I watched one of the last "ST:Enterprise" episodes this way.

Drew

My question is this. By using OTA HD I would be cutting out the middle man (Cable Company) and getting my signal right from the source (TV station).

Also by using OTA my signal would come right into my TV. It wouldnt have to travel threw the 8300 STB and the component cable.

Just wondering what your guys thought are. Thanks

If you're in an area where you can get good signal strength and putting an antenna up isn't a big deal, I would do it. I have DirecTV and not TWC, but I have found that the OTA HD is much better than what DirecTV provides (I get NBC and ABC HD from DirecTV because those two networks are O&O by the national network). In addition, the OTA signal has been rock solid no matter what the weather. The same can't be said for DirecTV. For that matter, when I had TWC it would go out if it rained, or when it was sunny, or cloudy, or... I gues what I'm saying is it went out a lot. ;)

My question is this. By using OTA HD I would be cutting out the middle man (Cable Company) and getting my signal right from the source (TV station).

Also by using OTA my signal would come right into my TV. It wouldnt have to travel threw the 8300 STB and the component cable.


You'd loose the DVR functionality, Discovery HD, TNT-HD and their program guide. You'd gain WB in high-def, and some extra $$ in your pocket each month. I'm not sure you'd gain much quality from using your built-in tuner, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

Drew

NBC17ENG,

Lastnight on "Four Kings", "My Name is Earl" and "ER" I only got the three front channels on TWC 217. I DVR'd them and no rear channels were detected. Just the front three. Reboot. ;)

Quick question.

I can recieve all my locals in HD via my TV's built in HD Tuner. I also can recieve my HD locals via Time Warner Cable.

Im am currently using Time Waner for all my HD but I feel Like my TV's HD tuner is going to waste because Im not using it.

Im pretty sure that Time Warner here in Raleigh does not compress the local HD signal at all so im sure the quility of OTA HD and Time Warner HD would be about the same.

My question is this. By using OTA HD I would be cutting out the middle man (Cable Company) and getting my signal right from the source (TV station).

Also by using OTA my signal would come right into my TV. It wouldnt have to travel threw the 8300 STB and the component cable.

Just wondering what your guys thought are. Thanks

If you have a Digital display (LCD, DLP or Plasma), using the TV's built-in ATSC tuner is the better of the two options due to a pure digital path to display (although it may not be noticable enough to tell). The cable box has to convert from digital to analog to pass thru component then the TV converts back to digital. The less conversion the better.

If your TV is digital and both it and the cable box has a HDMI or DVI jacks then both options would yeild basicly identical picture quality.

If you have an Analog display (CRT based), you probably wouldn't notice a difference between the two options.

On my LCD, their is no difference in detail or clarity with the internal OTA, internal QAM tuners or the cable box thru HDMI, but thru component it looks less crisp (text is slightly less defined).

Thanks for the info guys.

Anyone notice all the Hiccups on NBC's coverage of the Opening cermony of the olympics?

Thanks for the info guys.

Anyone notice all the Hiccups on NBC's coverage of the Opening cermony of the olympics?

I get NBC 17 OTA and I never saw but one VERY brief pixelization last night. The entire broadcast was flawless in Wilson. :)

Thanks for the info guys.

Anyone notice all the Hiccups on NBC's coverage of the Opening cermony of the olympics?

Yes, more so in the earlier parts. Audio drop outs and some (very short) momentary freezes. Jury is still out if NBC can deliver.

Seen through TWC Ch 217 in HD.

Again lastnight on TWC ch.217 WNCN during the Olympic opening ceremony the audio was only on the three front channels. No rear channels detected. Am I the only one noticing this the past two nights? But I didn't watch all the ceremony.

BTW, WNCN has turned ch.17.2 (TWC ch.218) off. I guess to increase picture quality of the Olympic coverage. :)

Again lastnight on TWC ch.217 WNCN during the Olympic opening ceremony the audio was only on the three front channels. No rear channels detected. Am I the only one noticing this the past two nights? But I didn't watch all the ceremony.

BTW, WNCN has turned ch.17.2 (TWC ch.218) off. I guess to increase picture quality of the Olympic coverage. :)
ya, there was no rear channel detected here either.

I get NBC 17 OTA and I never saw but one VERY brief pixelization last night. The entire broadcast was flawless in Wilson. :)
thats kind of hard to believe seing as everyone across the nation saw all the pixelation and macroblocking in every market. i dont know how you can call that flawless. also the constant views from SD stretchOvision on certain cameras. not flawless in my eyes.

thats kind of hard to believe seing as everyone across the nation saw all the pixelation and macroblocking in every market.

I always wondered if it was just my system ... I tend to see a lot of pixelation on Las Vegas as well. I was hoping the Olympics would look as good as the SuperBowl looked.

Does NBC17 reencode the signal it gets from the network? I'd think that passing it as-is would be best for an event like the Olympics ...

I'm thinking of downgrading from TWC's Digital Plus 1500 to Standard service, but keep a digital box. Will I still get the local and unencrypted HD channels? I'm in Cary.

I haven't been watching but I just turned to WNCN 17.1 on TWC CH.217 and the picture looks really good during the Nordic Combined-Individual skiing event. But still no rears. :)

thats kind of hard to believe seing as everyone across the nation saw all the pixelation and macroblocking in every market. i dont know how you can call that flawless. also the constant views from SD stretchOvision on certain cameras. not flawless in my eyes.

Please remember WNCN is an O&O station. Their equipment was recently upgraded. I have to say, from what I've seen, the Olympics have been pretty rock solid. Yes, there are portions that have been upconverted (and we knew that up front), but the HD looks pretty darn good to me.

Jeff
Cary

Again lastnight on TWC ch.217 WNCN during the Olympic opening ceremony the audio was only on the three front channels. No rear channels detected. Am I the only one noticing this the past two nights? But I didn't watch all the ceremony.

BTW, WNCN has turned ch.17.2 (TWC ch.218) off. I guess to increase picture quality of the Olympic coverage. :)

I recorded HD TWC on the Discovery Channel and NBC on Friday night. I did not get 5 channels on either recording. Seems like the problem may be broader than an NBC issue.

Well guys... I guess I jinxed myself.

OTA NBC 17 is pitiful tonight. I happen to be in Wilson so I have a very strong signal from WITN in Washington and it's doing EXACTLY the same thing at exactly the same times (2 HD's side-by-side with seperate tuners). Break-ups, pixelization and general multi-second lock-ups all over the place and all the time not just once in a while.

Signals OTA are strong and STAY stong and undaunted even during the fall-outs. :(

This is undoubtedly a network issue.

It's a shame to have to watch this in 480i analog. What a shame!

NBC should be ashamed of themselves. You'd think with a taped delay that they could at LEAST get the tech right.

Pitiful, pitiful, pi-ti-ful... :( :( :(

Dropouts are due to the Snow Storm in New York.

I just got off the phone with my crew at the station, and you all should be getting rear channels now. We ran through every setting and just found why it wasn't seeing the meta data to switch to 5.1 AC-3.

Hiccups? New York is being hit by a blizzard. They are no longer able to send the HD signal, so we are having to upconvert. There's nothing they can do at this time. We will switch back to HD as soon as they are able to deliver it.

TWC- So far only a couple of complaints from TWC customers related to signal strength. All together now: CHECK THOSE CONNECTORS!

Dropouts are due to the Snow Storm in New York.

Then they should have sense enough to up-link it from LA. Unexcuseable from a major network. They should fix it. I don't care "why".

This is going to be the problem with HDTV. Americans won't stand for crap like this. At least with analog, we always have SOMETHING even if it gets snowy due to inclement weather.

I've been a loyal HD viewer and a strong advocate since I bought my first HD set in 1999 but this crap's gotta be fixed. After 6 years of it, it's getting old. :(

Maybe FOX has the right idea after all. Don't they do most of their stuff over copper/land-lines of some kind? Seems I remember reading that somewhere quite a while ago. :confused:

At least it could maybe be a backup for major events.

I'm reallys surprised (especially after 9-11) that any major would be so dependent on one major city. That's disappoint in and of itself. You'd think they'd have uplink fallback facilities somewhere distant. (sigh)

I just got off the phone with my crew at the station, and you all should be getting rear channels now. We ran through every setting and just found why it wasn't seeing the meta data to switch to 5.1 AC-3.

Hiccups? New York is being hit by a blizzard. They are no longer able to send the HD signal, so we are having to upconvert. There's nothing they can do at this time. We will switch back to HD as soon as they are able to deliver it.

TWC- So far only a couple of complaints from TWC customers related to signal strength. All together now: CHECK THOSE CONNECTORS!

Sorry to be seeming to call you out on this but you're wrong. WITN is still broadcasting in full HD so you are up-converting by choice and not by obligation as you say.

I don't blame you for what you're choosing to do as it is likely a better choice given the conditions and situations but telling us that the network HD feed is no longer being sent down is just outright misinformation.

TWC- So far only a couple of complaints from TWC customers related to signal strength. All together now: CHECK THOSE CONNECTORS!
Im watching via Time Warner Cable and OTA and both are very bad. Drop Outs the worst I have ever seen.

Sorry to be seeming to call you out on this but you're wrong. WITN is still broadcasting in full HD so you are up-converting by choice and not by obligation as you say.

I don't blame you for what you're choosing to do as it is likely a better choice given the conditions and situations but to telling us that the network HD feed is no longer being sent down is just outright misinformation.
Is WITN broadcasting in HD right this very moment or the last time you checked? Seems like most of the post in the Olmpics thread is reporting all HD is gone. Let me know. thanks

I stuck with it as long as we could, but it was freezing and dropping out too much to keep on. New York said "when it goes, it goes". A solid SD is better to me than a freezing, glitching, pixcellated, then gone HD at this time. Hopefully NBC can get a fiber feed rigged up to a truck or outside vendor that can uplink it, but that's going to take time.

Is WITN broadcasting in HD right this very moment or the last time you checked? Seems like most of the post in the Olmpics thread is reporting all HD is gone. Let me know. thanks

Yes! I am watching it on WITN in HD right now. My choice. Drop-outs don't seem to be near as bad for the last 15 minutes or so as they have been.

FYI... Like I said earlier, I've been watching them both side-by-side all night. WITN never, I repeat; never dropped the network (EDIT: adding HD here) HD feed for one second, even when it was horrible.

I'm just saying it never (and still hasn't) "went away".

Again, watching it right this minute. Quit watching NBC-17 30 minutes ago.

I stuck with it as long as we could, but it was freezing and dropping out too much to keep on. New York said "when it goes, it goes". A solid SD is better to me than a freezing, glitching, pixcellated, then gone HD at this time. Hopefully NBC can get a fiber feed rigged up to a truck or outside vendor that can uplink it, but that's going to take time.

Again, please understand that I'm not blaming you for your choice. I was just making the point that that's exactly what it was/is; a choice. :)

Is WITN broadcasting in HD right this very moment or the last time you checked? Seems like most of the post in the Olmpics thread is reporting all HD is gone. Let me know. thanks

I assure you it is not gone as anyone in the Greenville NC demographic will report if you check in on their thread and just ask, I'm sure. :)

New York said to get off the HD feed as fast as possible as it could go out at any second. But, true, the signal is there if anyone can receive it. In Raleigh, the overcast skys are attenuating the signal to be unreliable, and Washington may be catching a better S/N than we are. We tried our back-up dish, and it was much better, but then it lost lock on the signal.

thanks wilson-flyer.

by the way, i can pick up the WB Digital channel with just a coax cable connected to my TV's antenna port. i had to try it the other day because i didnt believe you that it was broadcast in HD. :D sure enough you were right. not that i ever watch anything on that channel but still.. how come time warner dosent carry there digital channel?

NBC17ENG:

Saw your scrolling message on the up-convert. The HD feed on WITN hasn't even burped in over 20 minutes now. Something has gotten right whether it's the weather up there or the network has made a change. You might want to consider trying it again in HD. Seems pretty solid right now. :)

NBC17ENG:

Off topic here but I figure you would be the one to ask.
does NBC17 plan on going HD with the local news at all? i only ask because I have been watching WRAL news because of the HD broadcast and would like to watch the NBC news in hd as me and my GF have always been NBC people. :) thanks

thanks wilson-flyer.

by the way, i can pick up the WB Digital channel with just a coax cable connected to my TV's antenna port. i had to try it the other day because i didnt believe you that it was broadcast in HD. :D sure enough you were right. not that i ever watch anything on that channel but still.. how come time warner dosent carry there digital channel?

Dunno. Who knows why TW does many of the things they "do" (don't do implied LOL)! :D

I watch all my network HD OTA and have for over 7 years. I wouldn't give 50 cents for all the HD network content on TW. My OTA never causes me any problems. Even when I do have problems, you can be assured TW customers are seeing the same thing since TW picks up their HD re-broadcasts for networks just like I do: OTA. :)

Oops. Thought it was going until midnight tonight. Sorry NBC17ENG. Guess it's not worth the effort now, huh? LOL :)

Ya, I have the ability to watch all the locals in HD OTA also but I choose to watch them threw TW simply beacuse of the DVR and guide and such.

do you have Time Warner or Sat or just OTA? if you have time warner digital cable do you switch inputs on your TV to watch the OTA stuff?

Ya, I have the ability to watch all the locals in HD OTA also but I choose to watch them threw TW simply beacuse of the DVR and guide and such.

do you have Time Warner or Sat or just OTA? if you have time warner digital cable do you switch inputs on your TV to watch the OTA stuff?

Whew... that's a long answer. Briefly...

I have HD Tivo via DirectTV in the den. It also supports HD OTA. I also have a firewire hard disk recorder and DVHS for OTA on my Mits.

On my plasma in the bedroom, I have an old Zenith HD PVR for OTA broadcasts and I watch everything in there through that. There's an HD DTC-100 in the bedroom too but I rarely use it because it doesn't have PVR capabilities.

I have BASIC/lifeline TW cable only because I have RR and digital phone service from them anyway. My Mits tuner is able to get most of the OTA HD content from TW though, ironically enough. Technically, I have no digital TV service from TW. Only DTV.

I have "right many" options at any given time. In all fairness, this became somewhat of a game to me about 7 years ago since I'm out here in the middle of nowhere. I was a beta site for WRAL-HD. They need(ed) a fringe tester and I was about all they had. LMAO I've been on the HD bandwagon ever since. I've accumulated quite a few interesting HD toys over that period. :)

NBC17ENG:

Off topic here but I figure you would be the one to ask.
does NBC17 plan on going HD with the local news at all? i only ask because I have been watching WRAL news because of the HD broadcast and would like to watch the NBC news in hd as me and my GF have always been NBC people. :) thanks

Interesting. I wonder how much market share they've lost because of that. I'm sure it's negligiable in the grand scheme of things but I fall into the same category.

I hate to say it but I've become so used to WRAL now that I'll probably never go back anyway. They do a great job.

They even lost me on network news because I just "leave it on 5" now after the local news is over.

Whew... that's a long answer. Briefly...

I have HD Tivo via DirectTV in the den. It also supports HD OTA. I also have a firewire hard disk recorder and DVHS for OTA on my Mits.

On my plasma in the bedroom, I have an old Zenith HD PVR for OTA broadcasts and I watch everything in there through that. There's an HD DTC-100 in the bedroom too but I rarely use it because it doesn't have PVR capabilities.

I have BASIC/lifeline TW cable only because I have RR and digital phone service from them anyway. My Mits tuner is able to get most of the OTA HD content from TW though, ironically enough. Technically, I have no digital TV service from TW. Only DTV.

I have "right many" options at any given time. In all fairness, this became somewhat of a game to me about 7 years ago since I'm out here in the middle of nowhere. I was a beta site for WRAL-HD and have been on the bandwagon ever since. I've accumulated quite a few interesting HD toys over that period. :)ahh, directTV huh? what do you think of the PQ on there HD content. I switched from TW to Dish Network for a total of 3 days before going back to cable. The "HD-lite" on the Voom channels and the almost unwatchable SD channels were to much for me to deal with. is the direct tv HD content as bad as everyone says?

Interesting. I wonder how much market share they've lost because of that. I'm sure it's negligiable in the grand scheme of things but I fall into the same category.

I hate to say it but I've become so used to WRAL now that I'll probably never go back anyway. They do a great job.

They even lost me on network news because I just "leave it on 5" now after the local news is over.
good point. im starting to know the names of the WRAL cast. once that happens you get pretty set with a certain news team and your with them for life! lol.

ahh, directTV huh? what do you think of the PQ on there HD content. I switched from TW to Dish Network for a total of 3 days before going back to cable. The "HD-lite" on the Voom channels and the almost unwatchable SD channels were to much for me to deal with. is the direct tv HD content as bad as everyone says?

Personally, I think the biggest HD problem with DTV is the lack thereof. LOL

I see everybody complaining about the HD feeds on DTV but I've always thought they were fine, just limited.

I'll know a lot more about how bad their compression problems really are in May when we finally get our locals in HD from DTV and I can compare the DTV content to the OTA side-by-side. My bet is it will be undistinguishable to most people.

I've been around this forum for a LONG time and I've seen it grow from a "niche" group to almost a country in and of itself. A lot of us are hard-core videophiles and will b#@%h about almost anything. Take that into account when you read people complaining about compression on DTV and such. I assure you that 99 people out of 100 couldn't even see what many of us say/think we can see. ;)

For the record, late night Olympics back up on NBC and WITN is still in full HD. I did flip over to 17 for the news. LOL

Personally, I think the biggest HD problem with DTV is the lack thereof. LOL

I see everybody complaining about the HD feeds on DTV but I've always thought they were fine, just limited.

I'll know a lot more about how bad their compression problems really are in May when we finally get our locals in HD from DTV and I can compare the DTV content to the OTA side-by-side. My bet is it will be undistinguishable to most people.

I've been around this forum for a LONG time and I've seen it grow from a "niche" group to almost a country in and of itself. A lot of us are hard-core videophiles and will b#@%h about almost anything. Take that into account when you read people complaining about compression on DTV and such. I assure you that 99 people out of 100 couldn't even see what many of us say/think we can see. ;)
I totally understand what your saying. im a little bit obsessed myself with HT stuff. there was no denying the down resolution of the Sat compared to my cable service though.

have you ever compared TW's HD quility VS Directv's HD quility. Take for example when I had dish, DiscoveryHD on the Dish just wasnt as clear and crisp as it was on my TW setup.

once you have both to compare side by side, it was pretty easy to see a difference. i know the average person couldnt tell or care for that matter but i want the best PQ possable.

I totally understand what your saying. im a little bit obsessed myself with HT stuff. there was no denying the down resolution of the Sat compared to my cable service though.


You do realize that when I was talking about good quality from the sat providers that I was only talking about HD content (relative to the discussion in this thread), don't you? All SD content on sat is highly compressed and generally sucks. That being said, I watch VERY little SD content so I really don't care.

have you ever compared TW's HD quility VS Directv's HD quility. Take for example when I had dish, DiscoveryHD on the Dish just wasnt as clear and crisp as it was on my TW setup.

Can't. Don't have digital cable. Don't want or need to. Sat 100% serves my purposes. I had Dish HD for a while. Discovery HD looked fine to me. It certainly looks fine on DTV today (or at least as fine as it can given the content the network is feeding to it).

once you have both to compare side by side, it was pretty easy to see a difference. i know the average person couldnt tell or care for that matter but i want the best PQ possable.

May be. Maybe I'm an average viewer after all. I'm perfectly satisfied with my DTV given the compression parameters I have to live with with SD and I can live with those. :)

Well today's another day and the storm is apparently booming in the northeast. Let us hope NBC has made some contingency plans for today. :)

Then again, for those of us on the eastern fringe of the Raleigh demo, there's always the Greenville demo as a fallback. :)

I stuck with it as long as we could, but it was freezing and dropping out too much to keep on. New York said "when it goes, it goes". A solid SD is better to me than a freezing, glitching, pixcellated, then gone HD at this time. Hopefully NBC can get a fiber feed rigged up to a truck or outside vendor that can uplink it, but that's going to take time.

But any viewer who couldn't deal with the break ups always had the choice to switch to analog 17.

WITN stuck with the HD and let their viewers decide. I tuned to WITN after WNCN went SD.

Question though: Is NBC-HD the only program service upliinked from New York???? Seriously doubt it. Nobody else seemed to be having problems.....Including NBC-SD.

Repost on this page...

I'm thinking of downgrading from TWC's Digital Plus 1500 to Standard service, but keep a digital box. Will I still get the local and unencrypted HD channels through the box? I'm in Cary.

Nascar qualifying from Daytona at noon is scheduled to be in HD. We're going to try it to see if we have a stable signal. Conditions in New York are supposed to improve this afternoon. We've been watching them this morning, and they are definitely doing some re-configuration on the feed. The Weather Plus national feed has been stable all morning.

I just got off the phone with my crew at the station, and you all should be getting rear channels now. We ran through every setting and just found why it wasn't seeing the meta data to switch to 5.1 AC-3.

Thx NBC17ENG. I saw my rear channels light turn on at approximately 9:32pm lastnight. :) Unfortunately it sounds as though the outside sporting events apparently offer little to no rear channel activity at all. Looks like we weren't missing much. :) But atleast the rears are on for inside events.

BTW, with 17.2 off the HD on 17.1 looks quite crisp. I actually think it looks slightly crisper than UniversalHD's coverage. ;)

DANG! The picture quality of the Daytona qualifying coverage looks stunning. :D I wish multicasting was never used. Imaging the detail, the clarity, the stun factor. :)

DANG! The picture quality of the Daytona coverage looks stunning. :D I wish multicasting was never used. Imaging the detail, the clarity, the stun factor. :)

Agreed!!! Perhaps the comments from this forum could be passed along for all live events in the future (i.e. Notre Dame football, NFL, etc.).

NBC17ENG,

Thanks for listening to all the griping.

Jeff
Cary

NBC17ENG,

Just out of curiosity, with 17.2 off what kind of balancing act are doing between 17.1 and 17.3 as far as Mbps go?

Hey Guys,
I'm a long time lurker...(occasional poster) I sure appreciate all the information that this forum provides.

I'm in Hope Mills (just south of Fayetteville) watching on TWC...

My wife & I were pretty disappointed with the PQ for the Olympics in HD last night...to the point we ended up watching in SD. (and I got an earful about all the money spent on our HD Gear!!).

I realize (after reading here) that NBC was having trouble....I was wondering, however, if anyone else has been having trouble with the Universal HD Channel. I have never received a "clean" signal...constant pixalation, dropouts, etc...the Olympics a completely unwatchable. The sound is continuously choppy and the video is either pixalated or frozen.

I've heard a few of you comment about the really good PQ...so I'm wondering if it could be my box...I'm still using the SA 8000HD that I got last year. (Tried a hard reboot...no change) Do you think I should call and insist on an 8300HD upgrade (been avoiding because we always have stuff on the hard drive that we've yet to watch...Lost, 24 ect....)

Thanks for the advice,
John

Hey Guys,
I'm a long time lurker...(occasional poster) I sure appreciate all the information that this forum provides.

I'm in Hope Mills (just south of Fayetteville) watching on TWC...

My wife & I were pretty disappointed with the PQ for the Olympics in HD last night...to the point we ended up watching in SD. (and I got an earful about all the money spent on our HD Gear!!).

I realize (after reading here) that NBC was having trouble....I was wondering, however, if anyone else has been having trouble with the Universal HD Channel. I have never received a "clean" signal...constant pixalation, dropouts, etc...the Olympics a completely unwatchable. The sound is continuously choppy and the video is either pixalated or frozen.

I've heard a few of you comment about the really good PQ...so I'm wondering if it could be my box...I'm still using the SA 8000HD that I got last year. (Tried a hard reboot...no change) Do you think I should call and insist on an 8300HD upgrade (been avoiding because we always have stuff on the hard drive that we've yet to watch...Lost, 24 ect....)

Thanks for the advice,
John

I'm south of you down around Lumberton. I seriously doubt your UHD problem is due to the box but I would suggest replacing it with a 8300 box. It has a better picture than the 8000. It's been awhile since I had the 8000 but I remember it having a problem with black levels over the component output. I would also get the signal strength checked at the inside wall jack. I have not noticed any audio or video problem with UHD and it's signal strength is running kinda low (-6) at my location. Again if memory serves, on the 8000 you can turn to UHD then hit 999 and see the incoming signal strength (look for FDC on the Summary page). It should read # dBmV.

Hey Guys,
I'm a long time lurker...(occasional poster) I sure appreciate all the information that this forum provides.

I'm in Hope Mills (just south of Fayetteville) watching on TWC...

My wife & I were pretty disappointed with the PQ for the Olympics in HD last night...to the point we ended up watching in SD. (and I got an earful about all the money spent on our HD Gear!!).

I realize (after reading here) that NBC was having trouble....I was wondering, however, if anyone else has been having trouble with the Universal HD Channel. I have never received a "clean" signal...constant pixalation, dropouts, etc...the Olympics a completely unwatchable. The sound is continuously choppy and the video is either pixalated or frozen.

I've heard a few of you comment about the really good PQ...so I'm wondering if it could be my box...I'm still using the SA 8000HD that I got last year. (Tried a hard reboot...no change) Do you think I should call and insist on an 8300HD upgrade (been avoiding because we always have stuff on the hard drive that we've yet to watch...Lost, 24 ect....)

Thanks for the advice,
John
No problems with UHD here. PQ is pretty damn good. I would call TWC.

I just looked at the listings on WRAL, and it looks like tonight's UNC vs Duke game will be in SD, thanks to Raycom/Jefferson Pilot. Grrr.. Do we have any idea when they might upgrade to HD?

I wish WRAL would loan Raycom/JP a camera crew so we could see the ACC games in HD

BTW, it looks like they are also screwing us out of even having the option to pay for ESPN-HD to watch the ACC tournament in HD: http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news.php?page=2005-2-1~2005-2-28

Drew
I just HAVE to say DOWN WITH RAYCOM! Their coverage is the worst in so many ways, not the least of which is the fact that it's not in HD. It's frustrating to know that the rest of the country will be watching the ACC Tournament in glorious HD on ESPN, while we sit here and squint at Raycoms pathetic SD (not even good for SD).

Anyone want to start up a petitition? Or a collection maybe?

I'm a relatively new HDTV viewer, using DTV and OTA Yagi Antenna from Cary, NC. I get extremely strong OTA signals (90-100) from ABC, CBS, FOX, etc. and am really happy with the picture. However, I continue to have problems with NBC-17 signals/pictures. I've given up on watching the Olympics in HD because of pixalation problems. When I monitor the signal, it stays relatively high (70-80) most of the time, but occasionally dips to the 40's.

According to antennaweb, all of the major network antennas are in the same farm by Clayton. If this is correct, why do I continue to have problems with NBC?

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

Ron

Maybe you folks should spend some time reading the history in this thread of the documented problems NBC was having with sat uplinks due to weather in the greater NY/northeast area last night. I'm quite certain it was most thoroughly documented for posterity's sake. LOL

While you may very well WANT to have your cable box replaced for the reasons above, I seriously doubt any reception problems last night were directly related to the box at all.

Today everything seems fine... so far. Last night was a nightmare... for everyone, nationwide!

I just HAVE to say DOWN WITH RAYCOM! Their coverage is the worst in so many ways, not the least of which is the fact that it's not in HD. It's frustrating to know that the rest of the country will be watching the ACC Tournament in glorious HD on ESPN, while we sit here and squint at Raycoms pathetic SD (not even good for SD).

Anyone want to start up a petitition? Or a collection maybe?

This horse has been beaten to death. I guess it's the price we pay to live in (basketball) paradise. :(

I am gonna call Raycom tomorrow and ask them to release the HD ESPN feed. Who knows. Enough phone calls and they just might do it. :)

Maybe you folks should spend some time reading the history in this thread of the documented problems NBC was having with sat uplinks due to weather in the greater NY/northeast area last night. I'm quite certain it was most thoroughly documented for posterity's sake. LOL

While you may very well WANT to have your cable box replaced for the reasons above, I seriously doubt any reception problems last night were directly related to the box at all.

Today everything seems fine... so far. Last night was a nightmare... for everyone, nationwide!

I've read all of the history, but I'm seeing folks saying that things are okay with NBC now... but still not here. I'm getting sporadic weak signals from the local towers, which compounds the problems that the network is having.

Ron

I've read all of the history, but I'm seeing folks saying that things are okay with NBC now... but still not here. I'm getting sporadic weak signals from the local towers, which compounds the problems that the network is having.

Ron

Well, ABC, CBS and FOX is at full power, but NBC is still at reduced/low power. This could explain your OTA problem with NBC. Multipath could account for both the strongth but sporadic signal/video reception plus the signal dropping.

Speaking of WNCN,

They closed their news tonight with "Outlet Communications" rather than "NBC Universal Subsidarary WNCN". Just a mistake, or a precursor to the spin off??????

By the way "NBCeng17", the upconverted SD looks great !!!

PQ for the Olympics has been much better tongiht. no dropouts either!

NBC17ENG,

Just out of curiosity, with 17.2 off what kind of balancing act are doing between 17.1 and 17.3 as far as Mbps go?
The HD has the ability to exceed 17.2Mbs if it needs to. So far, it has not even come close to maxing out at that. The theory all along has been that 1080i was more efficient since only half the picture is sent at a time, and this appears to bear that out. The drawback to 1080i is the interlacing, but I have not seen any issues with the high motion you'd expect with a second field displaying slightly behind the first in time. I'm very impressed so far.

On the other hand, the DirecTV SD feed looks horrible tonight, I'll be on the phone with them shortly.

I'm south of you down around Lumberton. I seriously doubt your UHD problem is due to the box but I would suggest replacing it with a 8300 box. It has a better picture than the 8000. It's been awhile since I had the 8000 but I remember it having a problem with black levels over the component output. I would also get the signal strength checked at the inside wall jack. I have not noticed any audio or video problem with UHD and it's signal strength is running kinda low (-6) at my location. Again if memory serves, on the 8000 you can turn to UHD then hit 999 and see the incoming signal strength (look for FDC on the Summary page). It should read # dBmV.

Thanks Daryl,
FDC is reading : 74.000MHz -2 dBmV (I assume thats better than your -6)

Still not at all watchable...further up in the summary:
Tuner 1: 717.000 MHz -12 dBmV
Tuner 2: 771.000 MHz -16 dBmV

Not sure what those numbers mean...good or bad.

Guess I will call TWC tomorrow and see about an upgrade AND a possible repair.

Thanks again - John

mikea28,

you can always call or email RJ (programming@raycomsports.com). you will likely get a response like this one that i got a few weeks ago. maybe NBC17ENG could comment on whether this makes sense. by this reasoning, RJ will NEVER be able to broadcast in SD, because the stations use different equipment. sounds bogus to me. if this were true, RJ should broadcast in HD in the format supported by most of their syndicates, and then the local consumer could petition the local stations to get on the bandwagon. RJ needs to produce both feeds, HD and SD, and let their syndicates decide which they will broadcast. RJ is passing the buck as far as i am concerned.

Thank you for your email. Believe me when I say that both Raycom Sports and JP Sports wish that we could provide our viewers with games in HDTV. The truth of the matter is that the technology for HD production for SYNDICATION is not yet to the point where all of our local TV stations could pull down our high-def feed, internally process the signal, and then rebroadcast it out to the viewers. The local TV stations are all individually set-up to handle their own network's HD feeds (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, etc). Because we utilize these different stations/affiliates across the Southeast, we cannot produce one HD feed that all of these stations could pull down and retransmit. This is the same reason that shows such as Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, the talk shows, the off-network sitcoms, etc. are not produced in HD. They all utilize these different stations across the US.

Hopefully, in the very near future, we will be able to put a network of stations together that all use the same HD equipment...

Thanks Daryl,
FDC is reading : 74.000MHz -2 dBmV (I assume thats better than your -6)

Still not at all watchable...further up in the summary:
Tuner 1: 717.000 MHz -12 dBmV
Tuner 2: 771.000 MHz -16 dBmV

Not sure what those numbers mean...good or bad.

Guess I will call TWC tomorrow and see about an upgrade AND a possible repair.

Thanks again - John

These are the two that you want to check:

Tuner 1: 717.000 MHz -12 dBmV
Tuner 2: 771.000 MHz -16 dBmV

Thats the ones for each channels strength your tuned to and they aren't looking too good. Thats a little too low. Normally when it reads below -10 your gonna start having problems. My -6 was on the Tuner 2: 771.000 MHz -6 dBmV. Tuner 1 is whats tuned to in PIP.

This is the overall incoming strength: FDC is reading : 74.000MHz -2 dBmV which isn't too bad.

The HD has the ability to exceed 17.2Mbs if it needs to. So far, it has not even come close to maxing out at that. The theory all along has been that 1080i was more efficient since only half the picture is sent at a time, and this appears to bear that out. The drawback to 1080i is the interlacing, but I have not seen any issues with the high motion you'd expect with a second field displaying slightly behind the first in time. I'm very impressed so far.

On the other hand, the DirecTV SD feed looks horrible tonight, I'll be on the phone with them shortly.

Kewl, thx for the info. Allowing atleast 16Mbps and up for HD I think offers a sweet picture. :)

mikea28,

you can always call or email RJ (programming@raycomsports.com). you will likely get a response like this one that i got a few weeks ago. maybe NBC17ENG could comment on whether this makes sense.

I wonder if they are worried about the ability of an affiliate who is on a 1080i network (CBS, NBC) being able to handle a 720p stream, or vice-versa (ABC, FOX). Heck, most TVs upconvert 720p to 1080i or downconvert 1080i to 720p in realtime. I'd hope that the equipment at the TV station would be able to do it. I'd be interested to hear what somebody from one of the local TV stations (esp. WRAL) thinks about this.

Drew

I've noticed a funny thing about CBS lately. I pick up two CBS stations OTA in HD. WRAL-DT 5 from Raleigh, NC and WBTW-DT 13 from Florence, SC. WRAL 5's feed is always five (5) seconds behind WBTW 13's signal. Looks like WRAL is buffering their feed. Anybody else get two CBS's notice a difference? John Goodman from WRAL use to hang out here but ain't seen him lately.

Not bogus at all, generally stations would not have "universal receivers" that could pick up an HD DVB feed in whatever format they choose. BUT, like a NFL package, or other similar type of sports programming, the program supplier usually supplies a special receiver with encryption to an authorized broadcaster to transmit the feed, and takes it back when the contract is up. That's where a substantial investment would be required.

And for Daryl L, delay is normal in the bitstream through the encoders. Our old HD encoder had a 7 second delay, the new one is closer to 2-3 seconds. Just depends on the equipment.

I've noticed a funny thing about CBS lately. I pick up two CBS stations OTA in HD. WRAL-DT 5 from Raleigh, NC and WBTW-DT 13 from Florence, SC. WRAL 5's feed is always five (5) seconds behind WBTW 13's signal. Looks like WRAL is buffering their feed. Anybody else get two CBS's notice a difference? John Goodman from WRAL use to hang out here but ain't seen him lately.


Hi all,

Following the Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction last year, WRAL has placed Channel 5 and 5.1 on 5 second delays.

Chuck deCourt
Station Manager
WRAL-TV

On the other hand, the DirecTV SD feed looks horrible tonight, I'll be on the phone with them shortly.

Yes, it was really bad. I watched the men's snowboard final round in the bedroom in SD and the heavy macro blocking and freezing almost made it unwatchable. I think it was the feed though. Unless my eyes were deceiving me, I believe the SD highlights of Shawn White's winning run shown on the Today Show also showed the macro blocking.

On the other hand, the OTA HD signal was top notch. Nice job NBC17!

Hi all,

Following the Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction last year, WRAL has placed Channel 5 and 5.1 on 5 second delays.

Chuck deCourt
Station Manager
WRAL-TV
thanks for the info Chuck.

I was scanning the upcoming scheduled recordings on Friday, 2/10 and noticed that 217 was scheduled (or had actually started) a Series recording of the Olympics. I am positive that is not something I intentially set up. I deleted the recording so it wasn't a big deal (no deletions of saved programs, etc.) but still can't figure out how it been set up in the first place. I also checked the Option C, series manager and did not see it listed. Not sure whether it had actually started recording yet when I noticed the issue.

I have been using TWC's DVRs for several years and the HD version since Aug so while it may have been "operator error", I would be surprised if that is the case. Did anybody see this occur? I am in Durham. Thanks for any feedback.

I was scanning the upcoming scheduled recordings on Friday, 2/10 and noticed that 217 was scheduled (or had actually started) a Series recording of the Olympics. I am positive that is not something I intentially set up. I deleted the recording so it wasn't a big deal (no deletions of saved programs, etc.) but still can't figure out how it been set up in the first place. I also checked the Option C, series manager and did not see it listed. Not sure whether it had actually started recording yet when I noticed the issue.

I have been using TWC's DVRs for several years and the HD version since Aug so while it may have been "operator error", I would be surprised if that is the case. Did anybody see this occur? I am in Durham. Thanks for any feedback.

Maybe you had a series recording scheduled on NBC but wasn't aired due to the Olympics being on but it started recording anyhow? Guessing. ;)

And for Daryl L, delay is normal in the bitstream through the encoders. Our old HD encoder had a 7 second delay, the new one is closer to 2-3 seconds. Just depends on the equipment.

Thx, I slightly remember some discusion on that a couple years back. I'm gettin old. :D

Hi all,

Following the Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction last year, WRAL has placed Channel 5 and 5.1 on 5 second delays.

Chuck deCourt
Station Manager
WRAL-TV

Thx, I totally forgot you were from WRAL, sorry. I'm gettin old. So we gotta wait just a few seconds longer to see Janets boobies. HEHE, I guess no more boobies for us old dogs. Here I come web XXX. :( :) ;)

I've noticed a funny thing about CBS lately. I pick up two CBS stations OTA in HD. WRAL-DT 5 from Raleigh, NC and WBTW-DT 13 from Florence, SC. WRAL 5's feed is always five (5) seconds behind WBTW 13's signal. Looks like WRAL is buffering their feed. Anybody else get two CBS's notice a difference? John Goodman from WRAL use to hang out here but ain't seen him lately.

there is also a 5 second delay between cable and satellite, i noticed that when i had dishnetwork and TWC cable at the same time.

there's also a delay between live broadcasts between here in the States and abroad when both my parents and I watch the same live sports broadcast.

Though a nationwide video franchising system won't be in play anytime in the next few months, Verizon Communications Inc. (NYSE: VZ - message board) says it has "over 300 negotiations in play" to get local permission to offer video services in various municipalities across the U.S.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=88839

I guess in the interest of fairness, after my rant and rave a couple of nights ago, I owe praises and accolades to NBC17ENG for the brilliant and outstanding job NBC 17 has done with last night and tonight's HD broadcast from Torino.

Kudos to a job well done. I have seen only one very BRIEF burp OTA and that was last night.

In the interest of full disclosure, last night's analog broadcast sucked and was riddled with way to many problems to even begin to name them. Obviously a network or DTV problem. I haven't turned to the analog feed tonight. I hope it's better.

Here is a current list of unencrypted "clear to air" QAM channels on TWC in Durham. Virtual channel numbers are written in parentheses, if available.

89.11 = 9 UNC-TV PBS 4
90.1 = 200 UNC-TV DT
90.2 (4.0) = 201 UNC HD
90.3 (4.3) = 202 UNC Kids
90.4 (4.4) = 203 UNC Education
90.5 (4.5) = 204 UNC NC

78.11 = 3 WRAL CBS 5
85.2 (5.1) = 255 WRAL HD
85.3 (5.2) = 256 WRAL News Channel
85.4 (5.3) = 257 WRAL SD

78.10 = 6 WTVD ABC 11
113.1 (11.1) = 211 WTVD HD
113.2 (11.2) = 212 WTVD D2
113.3 (11.3) = 213 WTVD D3

104.9 = 2 WNCN NBC 17
111.2 (17.1) = 217 WNCN HD
111.3 (17.2) = 218 WNCN SD
111.4 (17.3) = 219 WNCN Weather Plus

89.10 = 13 WRAZ FOX 50
113.4 (50.2) = 250 WRAZ HD
113.5 (50.3) = 251 WRAZ DT
113.6 = 252 WRAZ Weather Channel

78.7 = 19 BET
78.12 = 10 WLFL WB 22
79.1 = 710 NBA Preview Channel
89.9 = 12 WRDC UPN 28
104.10 = 15 Home Shopping Network
104.11 = 16 QVC
105.1 = 100 News 14 Carolina Weather Now
106.3 = 501 Movies On Demand
106.9 = 600 Pay Per View Movie Previews
112.9 = 11 WUVC Univision 40
112.10 = 21 WGN
117.9 = 22 WRPX i 47 [formerly named PAX]
117.12 = 20 WTNC Telefutura 26
118.2 = 24 Triangle TV
118.10 = 14 News 14 Carolina
118.11 = 5 WRAY Shop At Home 30
119.2 = 0 TV Guide
119.4 = 4 Educational Programming
119.5 = 8 DCTV8
120.5 = 102 WAUG

Notes:
Discovery HD and TNT HD are no longer unencrypted as of 3/30/2006.
C-SPAN is 89.12, but it is encrypted, even though it is a "Basic" channel.
Home Buyers Channel is on analog channel 7, but not on a QAM channel.

Wow Eric. What a most helpful list!!!

I wonder if that same list applies to TW in Wilson. Probably. I'll let you know.

THANKS!

Wow Eric. What a most helpful list!!!

I wonder if that same list applies to TW in Wilson. Probably. I'll let you know.

THANKS!
any luck?

This is the same reason that shows such as Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, the talk shows, the off-network sitcoms, etc. are not produced in HD. They all utilize these different stations across the US.

Interesting note, Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy plan to go HD within the year I believe. Of course this may be less of an issue since a lot of the stations running these shows are ABC O&Os (and maybe affiliates too, not sure). So syndicated HD is possible, its just a matter of implementing it. Basically, a station is probably not going to upgrade to the necessary equipment to pick up a syndicated HD broadcast until syndicated HD is offered, and Raycom isnt providing their games in HD since most stations dont have the necessary equipment to receive their HD broadcast.

Curious question about TWC.

I've had HD for a few months now and recently NBC, channel 217, doesn't work. Its completely pixelated and hardly ever comes in. I have yet to see the Olympics work. When Universal HD carries it its perfect, never a single drop.

I have also been having problems with FoodTV, HGTV and whatever channel 100 is. Is this a box problem, Explorer 8300; a cable line problem; or TWC problem.

Unplugging the box seems to fix the FoodTV and HGTV problem for a little while. I tried asking TWC but they were not helpful. Any ideas? Thanks.

Curious question about TWC.

I've had HD for a few months now and recently NBC, channel 217, doesn't work. Its completely pixelated and hardly ever comes in. I have yet to see the Olympics work. When Universal HD carries it its perfect, never a single drop.

I have also been having problems with FoodTV, HGTV and whatever channel 100 is. Is this a box problem, Explorer 8300; a cable line problem; or TWC problem.

Unplugging the box seems to fix the FoodTV and HGTV problem for a little while. I tried asking TWC but they were not helpful. Any ideas? Thanks.
Weather its a STB problem or a cable problem, the bottom line is, its TWC problem. Call them and tell them that NBC, FoodTV, and HGTV dont come in on your TV and you would like a tech to come fix it.

These are the two that you want to check:

Tuner 1: 717.000 MHz -12 dBmV
Tuner 2: 771.000 MHz -16 dBmV

Thats the ones for each channels strength your tuned to and they aren't looking too good. Thats a little too low. Normally when it reads below -10 your gonna start having problems. My -6 was on the Tuner 2: 771.000 MHz -6 dBmV. Tuner 1 is whats tuned to in PIP.

This is the overall incoming strength: FDC is reading : 74.000MHz -2 dBmV which isn't too bad.

Daryl, Thanks for the advice. I had the TWC tech come out yesterday and swap the 8000HD box for an 8300HD box and the picture is GREAT!!

I hooked up to my TV (Hitachi 65TWX20B) via the HDMI output of the SA 8300HD to the DVI input on my TV....AWESOME picture. (Using an HDMI to DVI 10' cable) FANTASTIC view of the Olympics....for about 24 hrs....when I got home from work today the 8300 box is "locked out" and the following message is displayed:

"Your HDTV does not support HDCP. Please use the YPrPb component connection to watch television."

I called TWC support to see if there was an override (or something) and after much confering the Tech Support decided that it was an error message being displayed by my TV....not true...the message is displayed via every output (SVHS, RF channel 3, ect) that I've hooked up to multiple TV's.

It does "fix itself" if I disconnect the HDMI cable....guess I have to go back to the Component Inputs.

Has anyone experienced this? Anyway around it and still be able to use the digital connection?.....do I use this to my advantage with the Wife and order a nice new DLP/LCOS/Plasma???? (HDCP compliant of course....)

- John

Has anyone experienced this? Anyway around it and still be able to use the digital connection?.....do I use this to my advantage with the Wife and order a nice new DLP/LCOS/Plasma???? (HDCP compliant of course....)


you've got a handshake problem that can sometimes be solved by the order in which you switch things on.

Go to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804&page=1&pp=30) about the 8300 and do a search for HDMI and handshake. You should get lots of hits that might give you a solution.

Ya, the handshake problem seems to be most apparent with DVI to HDMI connection.

These are the two that you want to check:

Tuner 1: 717.000 MHz -12 dBmV
Tuner 2: 771.000 MHz -16 dBmV

Ya thats really low. Just checked mine an both of my tuners are at 14. Not -14. Is there such a thing as too strong a signal? lol

Ya thats really low. Just checked mine an both of my tuners are at 14. Not -14. Is there such a thing as too strong a signal? lol

Yes, too much is not good either.

I do not know how meaningful these numbers are that are displayed by the set top, but as a cable design engineer, here's some general info.

0 dbmv at the input to the tuner is generally considered a minimum standard for good analog reception. -5 to +15 is the range most TV's will tolerate without significantly noticable changes in picture quality to the untrained eye.

This level is measured at the peak of the video carrier, but if you averaged the level across the 6mhz channel bandwidth it would be considerably lower.

Digital channels don't have "peaks". The energy level is consistant across the entire channel. Digital channels therefore measure typically 8 to 10 db lower than analog channels.

So, if your set top says -12dbmv on a digital channel, your getting -2 analog, which is borderline.

Another issue is that since signal loss is greater at higher frequencies, cable signals leaving an amplifier are equalized to compensate for those difference. Your location relative to the amplifier that delivers your signal will dictate if you have greater signal at the higher channels, lower channels, or is relatively flat.

Do not be concerned about these issues, because they are accounted for in the engineering of the system. Drop length, signal splitters and other factors are accouted for. Good cable system design dictates +5db on the weakest analog channel delivered to the tuning device. (If there is a VCR in the RF chain, it looses up to 4db)

For those of you having reception issues with specific channels via TWC, it's most likely caused by a weak cable signal.

Call them and have them send someone to measure the signal and fix the problem accordingly (like with an amplifier, new cables, connectors, splitters, etc).

And I have been EXTREMELY impressed by the NBC-17 HD feed of the Olympics. Even the 16:9 SD stuff is looking better than the Notre Dame games and other events used to look.

Thank you very much for coming through on this - keep it up!

I just looked at the listings on WRAL, and it looks like tonight's UNC vs Duke game will be in SD, thanks to Raycom/Jefferson Pilot. Grrr.. Do we have any idea when they might upgrade to HD?

I wish WRAL would loan Raycom/JP a camera crew so we could see the ACC games in HD

BTW, it looks like they are also screwing us out of even having the option to pay for ESPN-HD to watch the ACC tournament in HD: http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news.php?page=2005-2-1~2005-2-28

DrewThey should not be able to force a local blackout on ESPN-HD if they themselves are not offering the game in HD. :mad:

Yes, too much is not good either.

I do not know how meaningful these numbers are that are displayed by the set top, but as a cable design engineer, here's some general info.

0 dbmv at the input to the tuner is generally considered a minimum standard for good analog reception. -5 to +15 is the range most TV's will tolerate without significantly noticable changes in picture quality to the untrained eye.

This level is measured at the peak of the video carrier, but if you averaged the level across the 6mhz channel bandwidth it would be considerably lower.

Digital channels don't have "peaks". The energy level is consistant across the entire channel. Digital channels therefore measure typically 8 to 10 db lower than analog channels.

So, if your set top says -12dbmv on a digital channel, your getting -2 analog, which is borderline.

Another issue is that since signal loss is greater at higher frequencies, cable signals leaving an amplifier are equalized to compensate for those difference. Your location relative to the amplifier that delivers your signal will dictate if you have greater signal at the higher channels, lower channels, or is relatively flat.

Do not be concerned about these issues, because they are accounted for in the engineering of the system. Drop length, signal splitters and other factors are accouted for. Good cable system design dictates +5db on the weakest analog channel delivered to the tuning device. (If there is a VCR in the RF chain, it looses up to 4db)thanks for the info. :)

HELP!!!

I'm planning on using a CM4228 on a 30 ft pole (have an old telophone pole in my back yard). Obsticals between me and the towers should be minimal. What are REALISTIC expectations for channel reception?

I am a long time forum member, but new to HDTV. I want to buy a STB for OTA HDTV. I have read a boatload of posts (here and other sites), but can't get solid answer (that a HD newbie can understand) on what STB does what. I've looked at a lot of posibillities including OTA only , DirecTV/OTA and Voom boxes. I do have DirecTV w/Tivo, but I'm not ready to pay the big bucks for a new HDTivo (or the new non Tivo DVR unit). Also, all I'm interested in are the local HD stations. I do not want TWC!

I'm looking to spend less than $150 (used) and will probably buy from Flebay. If you have one for sale, PM me.

What would you buy (and why)? Be VERY spacific! WHAT DO YOU USE?

Model #s
Features
Firmware
Interface
Programing
Guides
Station Lock
Glitches
Anything else that would be useful to know


Thanks in advance

Hi Jawhn.

What kind of HDTV do you have (if any)?

Why don't you just get the HD box from DTV? They have a deal if you sign up with 1-2 years of their HD service which I think is about $10/month (don't have a bill handy to look). It is a decesnt OTA ATSC receiver as well. You could also buy a used HDTV DTV receiver off eBay. About any of them will work provided they have an HD output that your TV will support.

You can forget firewire (if you're considering it for recording) in your budget probably.

You should be able to get everything in the Raleigh demo. I can't imagine how you couldn't. I'm in Wilson and I get everything and I'm on the wrong side directionally from where they shoot the signals.

Go here: http://www.antennaweb.org/

All you have to put in is your zip.

Don't over-complicate this thing. It ain't rocket-science like it used to be. Just relax and buy a reciever and start watching. :)

Thanks for the input.

I have a 50" non HD RPTV and a projector (both in the same room). The PJ will do 720p and 1080i.

I am not trying to make things tougher than they need to be, but I also don't want to waste money on the wrong equipment either. Some models are always better than others (features, glitches, ability to lock onto more channels). I'm just looking for help from those who have been there.

The problem with getting the DTV HD service is that I have Tivo. I don't want 2 boxes, the HD Tivo is High Dollar and I can't live without Tivo.

According to antennaweb (already been there) I should be able to pick up the Raliegh stations.

What antenna and receiver do you use?

I have a ChannelMaster StealthTenna (no longer manufactured as far as I know) with a built-in powered amp. It's suppose to be a minimal antenna at my distance from the majority of the towers but WRAL brought their truck down here for half a day twice and I assure you that we tested virtually every size and configuration there was and believe me, the StealthTenna was all that and a bag of chips. The only time I ever have any issues is some minor multi-pathing in the early spring when the leaves are first starting to come in.

I have a full complement of HD ATSC receiving equipment so I may not be the right person to ask about this (been watching HD in my home since 1999).

I have 3 RCA DTC-100's, one of which I had on my Sony 1271 projector for a while. I recently retired it to the attic and replaced it with an Infocus 4805. Though the DTC is the EARLIEST (read: VERY FIRST ONE) of DTV/OTA receiver and many would disagree with me, I still say despite its nuances, it was and still is one of the best. Most people's problem with it is that it only does RGB-HV which isn't a problem for you since your Sony probably only takes RGB. They also don't like the fact that the guide for OTA and DTV is not integrated and you have to switch from OTA to DTV and vice-versa.

I have an HD Tivo and a Zenith HDR-1230(?-I forget the model number and I'm too lazy to go look! LOL) HD-PVR that only does OTA. I wouldn't turn around for the difference in reception for any of them; DTC's included, for OTA usage despite all the arguments I've seen over many years on this forum about pros and cons for each one of them. Everybody on here bitches and moans and cries about this one being better than that one and so forth. Except for my relatively new HD Tivo, I just take my old crap and watch HDTV EVERY day. All of them have always worked for me.

If you don't mind not having an integrated OTA and DTV guide, you should be able to pick up a DTC-100 on e-Bay for around $100. You'll need an RGB-HV (BNC probably if your projector is like my Sony) --> SVGA Male. They are about $40 @ BestBuy and you should be able to walk into BB in Fayetteville and pick one up. It's a stock item. Antenna excluded, that keeps you under your budget and will give you all the OTA and DTV (if you subscribe to it) HDTV you'd ever want to watch.

If you can find a StealthTenna on e-Bay WITH the built-in amp, I'd HIGHLY recommend it. I THINK it would work fine in Fayetteville but I can't be positive. A word of warning, though, the StealthTenna hates hurricanes and even formitable nor'easters more than most rooftop antennas. I've been through 3 in 7 years and have a bracing system for mine now and I keep a spare in the shop just waiting. If the wind is going to get above about 45 MPH and I have time to react, I go to the rooftop and take it DOWN. If I hadn't developed the bracing system I use on mine, I'd highly recommend taking it down anytime the wind gets above about 30. It looks so COOL on the top of the house and works so well that I just refuse to get rid of them despite their sensitivity to wind.

Like I implied earlier, you threw down a pretty tough gauntlet with the budget you gave me to work with. I could give you all kinds of reasons to buy this one and that one but at the end of the day, I'd be wasting my time because all of them would be outside the budget you declared.

Get the DTC or call DTV and swing a deal. Those are your two options IMO.

A word of caution: Beware of DTV/OTA receivers on e-Bay as many of the so-called newer generations only do component HD output which your projector probably doesn't support and then you're in this thing for another ~$175 for a converter alone to convert from component HD to RGB. The newer receivers have some great features compared to the DTC but you will pay the piper in terms of spending money for converters and such so beware.

(EDIT: Addition) Get a rotor for your antenna. You will be VERY sorry if you don't. At your distance, you're going to get a better signal from WTVD and WUNC if you rotate your antenna. All of the other major stations in Raleigh are literally on the same tower. You'll probably be able to pick up some of the Greensboro feeds and Winston feeds too if you can easily rotate your antenna. ;) (ENDEDIT)

Good luck.

-bob

A lot of good info Bob. A couple of clarifications: I just sold the Sony CRT PJ listed on my website and replaced it with a Sharp X10 which can use component and RGB. Haven't got around to updating the info. Also the $150 is for the STB only.

A lot of good info Bob. A couple of clarifications: I just sold the Sony CRT PJ listed on my website and replaced it with a Sharp X10 which can use component and RGB. Haven't got around to updating the info. Also the $150 is for the STB only.

Then I'd have to say that I'd definitely go buy the DTV HD box for $200 with a 200 instant rebate with a 2 year programming commitment.

There are a lot of reasons I say that and if you do a little reading on the forum about DTV and the changes they're in the process of making, you'll understand. Suffice it to say that they will be replacing ALL HD receivers in the next 12-18 months and our market will likely be replaced in early summer anyway. If you ever want HD from DTV, that's the way to go.

Given the rebates going on right now, I'd REALLY re-consider my budget and take a HARD look at the HD PVR from DTV too (NOT HD-Tivo if DTV's own is available yet for the reasons above ;) ). IMO, it's worth the extra cash outlay considering you'd get the "plain-jane" one free anyway.

-bob

Just got off the phone wit DTV retention dept. To get HD DVR the best they could do was $300 after rebate. Plus I would have to buy the new 3 LNB antenna about $40. Also HD locals are not currently offered here yet, so I still have to put up an antenna. Plus the additional $11 a month.

$340 + $11 per mo
or
less than $100

Remember HD locals are what I'm looking for.

Remember HD locals are what I'm looking for.

I knew that. I knew our locals weren't available via the birds in HD yet either. Probably June. I think my posts implied all of that. If I led you to think otherwise, I didn't mean to.

Then go with one of my other 2 solutions.

Bit off Topic:

Has anybody noticed a slight/very subtle cloudy look to TWC cable channels ch.16 (WGN Superstation), ch.41 (AMC) and ch.73 (Sci-Fi)? I only see it on those three channels (both digital and analog versions). It's pretty subtle but rather anoying to me. I've noticed it for around 5/6 months now. Sci-Fi use to look crisp but not anymore. I don't watch ch.16 or ch.41 because of it but I watch ch.73 alot because I'm a sci-fi nut and it makes it hard to forget the picture and just enjoy the shows. :(

Bit off Topic:

Has anybody noticed a slight/very subtle cloudy look to TWC cable channels ch.16 (WGN Superstation), ch.41 (AMC) and ch.73 (Sci-Fi)? I only see it on those three channels (both digital and analog versions). It's pretty subtle but rather anoying to me. I've noticed it for around 6/7 months now. Sci-Fi use to look crisp but not anymore. I don't watch ch.16 or ch.41 because of it but I watch ch.73 alot because I'm a sci-fi nut and it makes it hard to forget the picture and just enjoy the shows. :(

Understand that Time Warner receives signals in a couple of different ways. Some channels are delivered to Time Warner (and all cable companies) in a digital format and are passed through with little or no processing of the content (best). Others are still received analog and are digitally encoded locally. Most of those will eventually be transitioned to digital by the program supplier. There are still a lot of C-band only SMATV installations to support however, and most cable operators are not yet doing digital simulcast. You see the financial implications.

My guess is that knowing this, they (TWC) are saving money in the short term by not using the best encoding equipment for those channels slated to go digital in the near future. Just an educated guess.

But you are right, those channels, and Golf are particularly "ragged"

You can tell whether or not the original program source is digital or analog by A/B'ing the feeds. If a channel "leads" by a few seconds on an analog tuner, the original source was analog, and vice versa, the delay being caused by the conversion process.

Thx for the info posg. I just checked ch.73 and the digital channel leads the analog channel by a second or so, but so do alot of other channels that don't look bad. Hmmm. I just wonder what may have changed. Ch.16 has always looked cloudy since it was added. Ch.41 and ch.73 use to look good but got cloudy around 5/6 months ago.

Thx for the info posg. I just checked ch.73 and the digital channel leads the analog channel by a second or so, but so do alot of other channels that don't look bad. Hmmm. I just wonder what may have changed. Ch.16 has always looked cloudy since it was added. Ch.41 and ch.73 use to look good but got cloudy around 5/6 months ago.

Since your channel assignments are different than those on the Triangle systems, I'm guessing that you are fed from a seperate headend. The fact that you are complaining about the same channels that look bad here in Raleigh reinforces the probability that that's just the way they are delivered.

In fact, on my office TV, WGN off DirecTV is a lot softer than most of the other already soft DirecTV channels.

Since your channel assignments are different than those on the Triangle systems, I'm guessing that you are fed from a seperate headend. The fact that you are complaining about the same channels that look bad here in Raleigh reinforces the probability that that's just the way they are delivered.

In fact, on my office TV, WGN off DirecTV is a lot softer than most of the other already soft DirecTV channels.

Ahhh, that would explain why WGN has looked bad since it was added here (long after Raleigh had it). And yes, my headend is Fayetteville.

did you guys experince tons of blocking and glitches in sound on TNT-HD last night during the NBA all-star?

i watched it over my QAM and it was very bad compared to any other time i watched TNT-HD in the past (mainly NBA).

signal strength was very good as always.

Sorry shpitz, I didn't watch that.

could someone PLEASE post a channel lineup i could receive of digital channels..

i live in selma and raliegh is about 30 miles from me if you could give me a list of local digital channels i can recieve.. it would much appreciated.

i plan on buying a digital tuner from either BB or walmart..if that helps..

could someone PLEASE post a channel lineup i could receive of digital channels..

i live in selma and raliegh is about 30 miles from me if you could give me a list of local digital channels i can recieve.. it would much appreciated.

i plan on buying a digital tuner from either BB or walmart..if that helps..

Assuming your talking about off the air with an antenna, you can find all the information you need at antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org)

could someone PLEASE post a channel lineup i could receive of digital channels..

i live in selma and raliegh is about 30 miles from me if you could give me a list of local digital channels i can recieve.. it would much appreciated.

i plan on buying a digital tuner from either BB or walmart..if that helps..
You didn't mention how you would receive the signals, but I'll assume you have an antenna. The T-W cable line up was posted a couple of pages back, and is generally accurate for all cities served by them. In your area, a good directional antenna with a rotor will get at least 3 different markets, Raleigh, Washington-Greenville, and Wilmington. Any analog signals you get now, will have digital signals on the air, except UPN-28 will be difficult until they up the power. www.antennaweb.org will show you what to expect.

i think he means over QAM...

Does anyone here use a CableCard?

I asked TWC if I could swap my digital box and remote control for a CableCard, and they said I could, but the overall price would still be $61.75/mo. Is this correct? I thought that the overall price would be reduced, especially since their "A La Carte" pricing (http://www.twcnc.com/template/rates/2006/durham.cfm) says a CableCard is only $1.75/mo, whereas a digital box with remote control is $7.95/mo.

I also asked what channels I could receive with a CableCard, and the CSR said only the basic/standard channels 2 through 77. Is this correct? I thought that some digital channels (100 and up) could also be received with a CableCard, especially since TWC's web site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/cable/cablecard.html) mentions "Digital Cable Channels" as a feature of CableCard.

:confused:

Does anyone here use a CableCard?

I asked TWC if I could swap my digital box and remote control for a CableCard, and they said I could, but the overall price would still be $61.75/mo. Is this correct? I thought that the overall price would be reduced, especially since their "A La Carte" pricing (http://www.twcnc.com/template/rates/2006/durham.cfm) says a CableCard is only $1.75/mo, whereas a digital box with remote control is $7.95/mo.

I also asked what channels I could receive with a CableCard, and the CSR said only the basic/standard channels 2 through 77. Is this correct? I thought that some digital channels (100 and up) could also be received with a CableCard, especially since TWC's web site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/cable/cablecard.html) mentions "Digital Cable Channels" as a feature of CableCard.

:confused:

Get a better CSR....

Does anyone here use a CableCard?

I asked TWC if I could swap my digital box and remote control for a CableCard, and they said I could, but the overall price would still be $61.75/mo. Is this correct? I thought that the overall price would be reduced, especially since their "A La Carte" pricing (http://www.twcnc.com/template/rates/2006/durham.cfm) says a CableCard is only $1.75/mo, whereas a digital box with remote control is $7.95/mo.

I also asked what channels I could receive with a CableCard, and the CSR said only the basic/standard channels 2 through 77. Is this correct? I thought that some digital channels (100 and up) could also be received with a CableCard, especially since TWC's web site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/cable/cablecard.html) mentions "Digital Cable Channels" as a feature of CableCard.

:confused:
That CSR is incompetent and flat out wrong - the WHOLE POINT of cablecard is that you can receive all the digital channels, encrypted or otherwise. The only thing you can't get with cablecard 1.0 is VOD and PPV becasue it's currently only a one-way device.

As far as pricing goes, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised to see TWC still charge the full digital cable package price - they'll claim it's a package deal or some other such nonsense. I'm pretty sure they don't want to give any encouragement to using cablecard, at least until 2.0 is out and VOD/PPV is supported.

What I wonder about, but doubt is an option from TWC, would be to have CableCard + basic cable + HD Suite for the basic cable + HD Suite price. Because frankly, the vast majority of the digital channels are worthless, and all I really want from HD Suite is ESPN-HD. The HD locals + Discovery HD and TNT-HD are already unencrypted QAM. This would be perfect for an HDTV at my GF's house. My house is happy with the 8300HD DVR + Digipic 1000 + HD Suite, but she's not willing to pay that much.

Does anyone here use a CableCard?

I asked TWC if I could swap my digital box and remote control for a CableCard, and they said I could, but the overall price would still be $61.75/mo. Is this correct? I thought that the overall price would be reduced, especially since their "A La Carte" pricing (http://www.twcnc.com/template/rates/2006/durham.cfm) says a CableCard is only $1.75/mo, whereas a digital box with remote control is $7.95/mo.

I also asked what channels I could receive with a CableCard, and the CSR said only the basic/standard channels 2 through 77. Is this correct? I thought that some digital channels (100 and up) could also be received with a CableCard, especially since TWC's web site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/cable/cablecard.html) mentions "Digital Cable Channels" as a feature of CableCard.

:confused:

I have a CableCard and I receive digital channels 100 and up including HD channels and other premium content I subscribe to with no problems.

TWC needs to have more knowledgeable CSR's. I have yet to talk with a rep who doesn't end up trying to pass off bogus information. I doubt that it is intentional, but their ignorance is annoying just the same. I wonder how many customers have been duped as a result?

But did they try to sign you up for Digital Phone????

By TWC's standards, the BEST CSR's are not the most knowledgable, but the best salespeople.

Get a better CSR....

ROFLMAO!!! Stop it!! Your killing me here! :D Do they actually make those? Can You buy one at Walmart or Lowes? I bet 7-11 has one, it's called Ahbu. :D ;)

I'm sorry. I just couldn't resist. :)

What I wonder about, but doubt is an option from TWC, would be to have CableCard + basic cable + HD Suite for the basic cable + HD Suite price. Because frankly, the vast majority of the digital channels are worthless, and all I really want from HD Suite is ESPN-HD. The HD locals + Discovery HD and TNT-HD are already unencrypted QAM. This would be perfect for an HDTV at my GF's house. My house is happy with the 8300HD DVR + Digipic 1000 + HD Suite, but she's not willing to pay that much.
FWIW, post #1693 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4548970&&#post4548970) in this thread stated...
BTW, I saw a thread that the HDSuite was available in some places (it was not the Raleigh forum) as an upgrade with Cable card and could be done with the Basic cable package. I enquired at the TWC booth at the fair regarding wether this similar set up was acheivable-- a good deal in my eyes-- $1.75 or so for the cablecard, $13 or so for Basic and another $7 or so for the HD-Suite without all the standard or digital cable crud. The response was that they didn't think that could be done-- "one must have the digital package to get any HD" which they changed their story to "HD-suite" after I explained that I was already pulling in the HD local channels through the tuner with Basic Cable. However, they did indicate they had a limited number of cablecards-- first come first serve.

I have a CableCard and I receive digital channels 100 and up including HD channels and other premium content I subscribe to with no problems.
Thanks.

How much do they charge for Digital Service and a CableCard? Is it really $61.75/month?

Hope someone can help me out....

Is anyone currently using a TWC 8300 that is simultaneously outputting via HDMI and Component? I'd like to run my main TV via HDMI, and run the same signal via Component to a smaller HDTV Monitor around the corner.

Anyone? TIA.

Thanks.

How much do they charge for Digital Service and a CableCard? Is it really $61.75/month?

$61.75 for basic digital. Equipment rental is extra.

http://www.twcnc.com/template/rates/2006/carborro.cfm

Does anyone here use a CableCard?



Arstechnica have recently written an article about CC and how it works.

http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/cablecard.ars

Next time you call a CSR you can throw some jargon at them to make them pay attention.

Hope someone can help me out....

Is anyone currently using a TWC 8300 that is simultaneously outputting via HDMI and Component? I'd like to run my main TV via HDMI, and run the same signal via Component to a smaller HDTV Monitor around the corner.

Anyone? TIA.

The 8300 won't simultaneously outputting via HDMI and Component.

$61.75 for basic digital. Equipment rental is extra.
I know it's $61.75 for the digital package (a.k.a. DIGIPiC 1000), which includes digital service, a digital box and a remote control.

I'm specifically asking about digital service and a CableCard (without a digital box and remote control).
Arstechnica have recently written an article about CC and how it works.

http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/cablecard.ars
I already read that, but thanks anyway.
Next time you call a CSR you can throw some jargon at them to make them pay attention.
I tried that. It didn't help.

Thanks.

How much do they charge for Digital Service and a CableCard? Is it really $61.75/month?

I'll be able to give you a better idea next month....last months bill was a jumble of installation fees, credits, partial credits, etc. A fairly helpful CSR named "Greg" helped interpret the bill satisfactorily though. Might give him a try since he's at least aware of equipment charges like mine. For some goofy reason though, they charge $42 to "install" the card.

FYI, the downside (for me) about the card, is that the TVGuide that comes up is not as "friendly" as the one on the STB. That is, on the STB you can pull up the guide and search through the listings while staying on the same channel you're viewing. The CableCard version only allows you to view other channel listings while changing the channel you're on...which to me is a huge pain. TVGuide is also owned by FOX so the channel ordering is not in the same order as the actual channel numbers, but by what FOX says is most popular (naturally FoxNews Channel is number one on the TVGuide list). If you want to order it differently, you can, but it is a pain in the b___.

The plus for using the CableCard is that I have noticeably better sound quality (I personally don't notice an increase in PQ) over the STB. It also seems to me that I have fewer problems with losing the channel signal, and less pixelation. But, because I also have the SA8300HD DVR hooked up to the same TV with the CableCard, I have the best of both worlds. If I didn't want the DVR features, I could live with the CableCard alone though.

For some goofy reason though, they charge $42 to "install" the card.
Did a technician come to your home to install it? Or did they let you install it yourself?
FYI, the downside (for me) about the card, is that the TVGuide that comes up is not as "friendly" as the one on the STB. That is, on the STB you can pull up the guide and search through the listings while staying on the same channel you're viewing. The CableCard version only allows you to view other channel listings while changing the channel you're on...which to me is a huge pain.
Are you referring to TV Guide On Screen (http://www.tvguideonscreen.com/) (TVGOS), or something else?

If it's TVGOS, then it should let you choose the "locked" mode, which locks the tuner on the current channel while you browse other channel listings. In the upper left corner of the screen, there is a small video window of the current channel, and an icon appears above it that looks like a lock and indicates whether it's in "locked" or "unlocked" mode.

Anyway, TVGOS can be used with or without a CableCard, as long as the tuner supports TVGOS.
But, because I also have the SA8300HD DVR hooked up to the same TV with the CableCard, I have the best of both worlds. If I didn't want the DVR features, I could live with the CableCard alone though.
Since you still have a digital box (SA8300HD), you might not be able to tell me how much digital service would cost without one.

I'll be able to give you a better idea next month....last months bill was a jumble of installation fees, credits, partial credits, etc. A fairly helpful CSR named "Greg" helped interpret the bill satisfactorily though. Might give him a try since he's at least aware of equipment charges like mine. For some goofy reason though, they charge $42 to "install" the card.


The FCC mandated cable card, and the cable company figured out how to bilk you yet again because of it. That $42 is, in fact, the installation fee for the card. Yes, you pay a technician to come out to your house, plug the card in to a slot, and call the office to read a bunch of numbers off it to activate the card. Yes, you could do that if you know how to read. No, the cable company won't let you.

FWIW, post #1693 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4548970&&#post4548970) in this thread stated...

BTW, I saw a thread that the HDSuite was available in some places (it was not the Raleigh forum) as an upgrade with Cable card and could be done with the Basic cable package. I enquired at the TWC booth at the fair regarding wether this similar set up was acheivable-- a good deal in my eyes-- $1.75 or so for the cablecard, $13 or so for Basic and another $7 or so for the HD-Suite without all the standard or digital cable crud. The response was that they didn't think that could be done-- "one must have the digital package to get any HD" which they changed their story to "HD-suite" after I explained that I was already pulling in the HD local channels through the tuner with Basic Cable. However, they did indicate they had a limited number of cablecards-- first come first serve.

Well, this is certainly interesting. The fact that they denied him at the "fair" means nothing IMO, since these guys are usually clueless (see the above mentioned CSR, much less some guy at a "fair"). If they do it in some places, then I can still hold out some hope.

I don't even care about getting ultra basic cable - i just want to add HD Suite directly to standard cable (ch 2-77 or so). Maybe I'll call and give this a try when my cablecard TV comes in.

FYI, the downside (for me) about the card, is that the TVGuide that comes up is not as "friendly" as the one on the STB. That is, on the STB you can pull up the guide and search through the listings while staying on the same channel you're viewing. The CableCard version only allows you to view other channel listings while changing the channel you're on...which to me is a huge pain. TVGuide is also owned by FOX so the channel ordering is not in the same order as the actual channel numbers, but by what FOX says is most popular (naturally FoxNews Channel is number one on the TVGuide list). If you want to order it differently, you can, but it is a pain in the b___.
The guide when using cablecard is going to be very dependant on what features your particular TV implements and less so on the cablecard itself. TV Guide On-Screen seems to be the most popular and I've heard plenty of complaints about it.

.....I don't even care about getting ultra basic cable - i just want to add HD Suite directly to standard cable (ch 2-77 or so). Maybe I'll call and give this a try when my cablecard TV comes in.

TWC told me I HAD TO get digital cable in order to get HD Suite. I'm with you though, that would fit my needs the best as well.

On the other hand.....as consistently screwed up as the answers have been coming from the CSR's, they might have been wrong about that as well!

Did a technician come to your home to install it? Or did they let you install it yourself?

Are you referring to TV Guide On Screen (http://www.tvguideonscreen.com/) (TVGOS), or something else?

If it's TVGOS, then it should let you choose the "locked" mode, which locks the tuner on the current channel while you browse other channel listings. In the upper left corner of the screen, there is a small video window of the current channel, and an icon appears above it that looks like a lock and indicates whether it's in "locked" or "unlocked" mode.

Anyway, TVGOS can be used with or without a CableCard, as long as the tuner supports TVGOS.

Since you still have a digital box (SA8300HD), you might not be able to tell me how much digital service would cost without one.



Yeah, as PKScout says, TWC said I had to have a technician come out. Naturally the technician was clueless (had never done before) so I ended up showing him how it worked and how to install it. Still charged me $42 though.

Also, yes, it's TVGOS. I'll have to see about the locked feature tonight when I get home. Mikea28 might be right....if it's somewhat TV dependent, maybe your success with TVGOS will be better than mine.

I contacted two other CSR's (one by phone and one by email), and they both told me that digital service with CableCard would cost $62.27/mo total ($57.80 + taxes & fees). By comparison, digital service with digital box and remote control costs $66.95/mo total ($61.75 + taxes & fees). So it would be a savings of $4.68/mo. However, since you must first pay the $42.95 CableCard installation fee, the overall savings don't start until the 10th month.

This whole installation fee thing is such a scam.

I've generally been happy with TWC's service, but I'm starting to get a little irritated. The delay in getting ESPN2-HD and the general lack of new HD stations while DirecTV and Dish Network move forward generally sucks. And today I was doing a little price comparison between DirecTV and TWC for complete HD package, HD DVR, HD box for a 2nd room, and broadband internet (DSL in the case of DirecTV). The verdict:

DirecTV: $97/mo
TWC: $127/mo

Both plus taxes and various other surcharges that they both tack on there. I was shocked to see such a difference. $30/mo really adds up over a year. And this doesn't even take into account the 3 free months of the HD package/HBO/Starz/Showtime and 3 months of introductory rate Total Choice from DirecTV (which would bring it to $64/mo).

And the kicker: DIRECTV Announces Next 24 Markets to Receive High-Definition Local Channels (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=820591&highlight=) - INCLUDING RALEIGH, NC.

Again, I've been overall pretty happy, but this might just be enough to make me jump ship. If ESPN2-HD doesn't show up by next basketball season, I think that's the last straw. Anyone else in?

I've generally been happy with TWC's service, but I'm starting to get a little irritated. The delay in getting ESPN2-HD and the general lack of new HD stations while DirecTV and Dish Network move forward generally sucks. And today I was doing a little price comparison between DirecTV and TWC for complete HD package, HD DVR, HD box for a 2nd room, and broadband internet (DSL in the case of DirecTV). The verdict:

<snip>

Again, I've been overall pretty happy, but this might just be enough to make me jump ship. If ESPN2-HD doesn't show up by next basketball season, I think that's the last straw. Anyone else in?

If you're gonna jump for HD, I wouldn't bother. I'm on DirecTV right now and the HD suite isn't any better than TWC, and the compression is bad enough that most of us have dubbed the HD on DTV "HD-Lite." DTV doesn't have ESPN2-HD either, and they're focused on rolling our LIL in HD and won't be adding any new HD channels for awhile.

In fact, given DTV is dropping TiVo I'm thinking about switching *back* to TWC when the cablecard TiVo comes out. I probably won't even bother getting the HD suite (I dropped it on DTV) because basically all the HD I really want to watch is OTA. I figure switching back from satellite should get me a deal for a free install of the cablecard.

The sad thing is that I'm kind of down to "who sucks the least" rather than "who has great offerings" when it comes to TV providers.

If you're gonna jump for HD, I wouldn't bother. I'm on DirecTV right now and the HD suite isn't any better than TWC, and the compression is bad enough that most of us have dubbed the HD on DTV "HD-Lite." DTV doesn't have ESPN2-HD either, and they're focused on rolling our LIL in HD and won't be adding any new HD channels for awhile.

In fact, given DTV is dropping TiVo I'm thinking about switching *back* to TWC when the cablecard TiVo comes out. I probably won't even bother getting the HD suite (I dropped it on DTV) because basically all the HD I really want to watch is OTA. I figure switching back from satellite should get me a deal for a free install of the cablecard.

The sad thing is that I'm kind of down to "who sucks the least" rather than "who has great offerings" when it comes to TV providers.
So so sad that this is true :( This is supposed to be a new era!

LIL?

DirecTV's website (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV_package.jsp) claims they do have ESPN2-HD. This is a big draw for me, and I really do think if TWC doesn't have it by next year that I'll jump. Although it's quite disappointing to hear that their HD is more compressed.

Ugh....well, maybe this can at least be a bargaining chip with TWC ;)

Also, yes, it's TVGOS. I'll have to see about the locked feature tonight when I get home.
I posted some detailed instructions (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7185208&&#post7185208) in another thread.

DTV doesn't have ESPN2-HD either, and they're focused on rolling our LIL in HD and won't be adding any new HD channels for awhile.

I probably won't even bother getting the HD suite (I dropped it on DTV)

This is incorrect. D* does have ESPN2-HD, it is channel 72 but the HD package is required to receive it. Despite many grumblings about the offerings, I have caught quite a few ACC games--football and basketball on ESPN2-HD (and also on ESPN-HD.)

DirecTV: $97/mo
TWC: $127/mo

Sounds great upfront but doesn't include bundled discounts. I currently have D*, but when comparing having service on 3 TVs including DVR on one TV, HD on 2 TVs, and then add the cost differences that TWC charges for RR and digital phone if you aren't a digital cable subscriber, then the price is within 2 dollars ($10 premium on digital phone, $5 for RR if not a digital cable sub):

D*: 165.85 (Total choice + HD suite, 3 boxes, one SD Tivo, 2 HD boxes + TWC RR & digital phone)**
TWC: 164.50 (Digipic 1000 + HD Suite, 2 digital boxes, regular cable on one TV, 1 DVR which is HD, RR & digital phone) **

Then it comes down to HD DVR for no hardware cost VS. ability to have Sunday Ticket which itself is $$ but VERY entertaining for us. I am struggling to know which to have. When I switched back to D* I could get local HD OTA well at old house and didn't mind Tivo'ing SD because there wasn't as much prime time HD.

At this point it will likely come down to the price of the D* MPEG4-DVR so I can DVR local HD.

YMMV

--Carl


**(RR and digi phone are essentials in my price equation--Vonage was TERRIBLE and DSL not available.)

LIL?

Sorry. I'm in IT. All we do is speak in acronyms all day. ;)

LIL = locals in local

That's the short hand for saying that I get my local channels off the satellite.

This is incorrect. D* does have ESPN2-HD, it is channel 72 but the HD package is required to receive it. Despite many grumblings about the offerings, I have caught quite a few ACC games--football and basketball on ESPN2-HD (and also on ESPN-HD.)

My bad. I must have missed the announcement. I'm curious though. I thought ESPN and ESPN2 had to black out ACC basketball if the cheapskates at Jefferson Pilot were broadcasting the program (since they have some kind of exclusive deal for at least some of the games). And JP isn't doing HD because it's too hard for them.

So if you black out all those games, how much is actually left? Or do ESPN and ESPN2 not get blacked out on the satellite. If that's true I might pick up the HD suite for the ACC tournament so I can watch those games in HD (as long as DirecTV doesn't make me sign a two year commitment to add that).

It seems there have been a number of ESPN/2 carried games that JP did not broadcast, and many have been in HD.

I have also had occasions where the ESPN (-2) -HD version is not blacked out by D* when JP is carrying in SD on WRAL. I wonder what the official rule is for ESPN-HD games.

I doubt it is as simple as not having my phone cord plugged in to my HD box (which is not plugged in in my case) b/c D* does correctly black out the HD-ST versions of games carried on WRAL /FOX 50.

--Carl

**(RR and digi phone are essentials in my price equation--Vonage was TERRIBLE and DSL not available.)
I've actually been extremely happy with Vonage over Earthlink/RR, which includes at least four households (here, at my brother's house, my girlfriend's house, and now at my parent's house). The biggest thing was setting up QOS (Quality of Service) support on the routers to ensure the Vonage calls got priority. My parents had Digital Phone for awhile, but it's just too expensive for what I use my "landline" for - just a few basic local calls. $15/mo for Vonage vs $40/mo for TWC Digital Phone (and TWC doesn't even include voicemail!).

'Tis true that DSL would require me getting a real landline again, and I can't stand Verizon (the only option in Durham), which would boost the price some more.

My bad. I must have missed the announcement. I'm curious though. I thought ESPN and ESPN2 had to black out ACC basketball if the cheapskates at Jefferson Pilot were broadcasting the program (since they have some kind of exclusive deal for at least some of the games). And JP isn't doing HD because it's too hard for them.

So if you black out all those games, how much is actually left? Or do ESPN and ESPN2 not get blacked out on the satellite. If that's true I might pick up the HD suite for the ACC tournament so I can watch those games in HD (as long as DirecTV doesn't make me sign a two year commitment to add that).
Raycom/JP doesn't own the rights to EVERY game. There's really only one or two Duke & UNC games per year that are broadcast locally by Raycom and nationally by ESPN/ESPN2, thus requiring a local blackout of the national feed. This year, the only one I know of was the first Duke-UNC game. The second one will be on nationally on ESPN/ESPN-HD only.

Actually, I take that back - the entire ACC tournament will be run by Raycom/JP, so that's another 11 games. I almost forgot about the tournament until I reread your post.

DOWN WITH RAYCOM/JP! Even if they had HD, I'd still rather not see their pathetic coverage, especially if ESPN was the alternative...almost to the point that I'd rather have ESPN in SD vs Raycom/JP in HD. Of course, that will never be a choice anyone will ever have to make.

Raycom/JP doesn't own the rights to EVERY game. There's really only one or two Duke & UNC games per year that are broadcast locally by Raycom and nationally by ESPN/ESPN2, thus requiring a local blackout of the national feed. This year, the only one I know of was the first Duke-UNC game. The second one will be on nationally on ESPN/ESPN-HD only.

Actually, I take that back - the entire ACC tournament will be run by Raycom/JP, so that's another 11 games.

This is correct. And only in the case of the ACC tournament is HD going to be an issue, as even ESPN did not do the first Carolina/Duke match-up in HD.

There have been A LOT of ACC basketball games on ESPN/ESPN2-Hd this season. For example, every Carolina game on ESPN/ESPN2 so far this year has been/will be in HD except for the first Duke game. I think almost every time - if not every time - an ACC game has been on ESPN/ESPN2 this season, it's been in HD.

This whole installation fee thing is such a scam.

I've generally been happy with TWC's service, but I'm starting to get a little irritated. The delay in getting ESPN2-HD and the general lack of new HD stations while DirecTV and Dish Network move forward generally sucks. And today I was doing a little price comparison between DirecTV and TWC for complete HD package, HD DVR, HD box for a 2nd room, and broadband internet (DSL in the case of DirecTV). The verdict:

DirecTV: $97/mo
TWC: $127/mo

Both plus taxes and various other surcharges that they both tack on there. I was shocked to see such a difference. $30/mo really adds up over a year. And this doesn't even take into account the 3 free months of the HD package/HBO/Starz/Showtime and 3 months of introductory rate Total Choice from DirecTV (which would bring it to $64/mo).

And the kicker: DIRECTV Announces Next 24 Markets to Receive High-Definition Local Channels (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=820591&highlight=) - INCLUDING RALEIGH, NC.

Again, I've been overall pretty happy, but this might just be enough to make me jump ship. If ESPN2-HD doesn't show up by next basketball season, I think that's the last straw. Anyone else in?

As soon as the MPEG4 DVRs roll out on the Sat side of things I'll be waving goodbye to TWC with a huge grin on my face.

Mike

I just wanted to let everyone know my family of 4 with a 15 year old, loves VONAGE. QOS settings do make a world of difference especially in a household that has as much internet activity as mine. Save yourself some money; I pay $25 a month for unlimited and every phone feature known to man (like email voice-mail to you). TWC can't touch that.

And I too will be going to Satellite after the Local HD's are offered but I'll probably go for DISH unless Directv adds more HD. The MP4 with a bigger hard-drive (lots more recordings) and more HD channels to record might be too much this enthusiast to stay away from.

TWC might have a surplus of 8300HD's come April.