Yep, I picked up WLFL22 and WRDC28 lastnight. Now maybe I'll get a chance to see Smallville and Supernatural in HD. :D BTW, whats with the little gray sidebars on 4x3 material on WLFL? Looks like their zooming (didn' look stretched) 1.33:1 to 1.66:1. Why?

Now, WLFL, WRDC, WTVD and WNCN I get at about equal signal strength @ my location with WRAL & WRAZ @ a slightly stronger signal strength. But kinda hard to tell from lastnight due to the weather we had down my way lastnight. I'm just past the horizon (~77 miles from the WRAL tower by way of the buzzard). If I was only 20 miles closer. :)

I have not received any reports of problems since we installed our new encoders in December. As soon as you guys can review your DVR copies please let us know if this was a one time only lipsync issue, or more often. It will take a few days for any pattern to appear in these posts, Oldemanphil, because of timeshifting, and how they receive it. When replying please mention OTA, QAM, or TWC STB / DVR. You certainly are in the right place for info!

Channel scans? Well, I would certainly recommend it at least monthly. Sure it takes a long time, but you can kick it off before going to bed or work, and complete it later. During the Olympics, we turned off 17-2, then back on afterwards. That can freak out some receivers and throw things askew. We just installed a software upgrade on our PSIP generator, (twice, as the first time it kicked us back to 55-1) That certainly plays havoc with receivers!

Yes, WLFL and WRDC are now reaching full power, so there's another reason to scan channels.
I remember spotting one video glitch on on TWC STB/DVR on "My Names is Earl" just as the were getting out of bed in the store. Didn't notice any lip sync errors though. DANG!! That's on hilarious show. :D

Yep, I picked up WLFL22 and WRDC28 lastnight. Now maybe I'll get a chance to see Smallville and Supernatural in HD. :D BTW, whats with the little gray sidebars on 4x3 material on WLFL? Looks like their zooming (didn' look stretched) 1.33:1 to 1.66:1. Why?

Now, WLFL, WRDC, WTVD and WNCN I get at about equal signal strength @ my location with WRAL & WRAZ @ a slightly stronger signal strength. But kinda hard to tell from lastnight due to the weather we had down my way lastnight. I'm just past the horizon (~77 miles from the WRAL tower by way of the buzzard). If I was only 20 miles closer. :)

The grey bars on WLFL have always been there. The zooming is new within the last view weeks. Their HD has that "watching though a vaseline coated screen" look that WNCN had before they upgraded their encoder. The SD is awful. WRDC does not, of course, do HD.

The grey bars on WLFL have always been there. The zooming is new within the last view weeks. Their HD has that "watching though a vaseline coated screen" that WNCN had before they upgraded their encoders.

The zooming is indeed annoying, especially when they forget to switch back to the HD feed, which happens quite often. The only show we watch on WLFL is my wife's "Reba", and I don't think it looks that terrible. I only notice the "watching though a vaseline coated screen" when they are zooming the SD feed; HD looks decent to my untrained eyes. They seem to have a bit more motion artifacts than other stations, but far fewer than WNCN had before they upgraded their encoders.

The really annoying thing is that the Sunday night "Reba Beginnings" (fancy term for reruns from season 2) have terrible lip sync; it is off by nearly a second. Friday night's new Rebas are fine. Have you found lip sync problems on their other shows?

Anyway, I'm glad they are at full power. That should hopefully fix the occasional breakup we saw when they were at low power..

Drew

The really annoying thing is that the Sunday night "Reba Beginnings" (fancy term for reruns from season 2) have terrible lip sync; it is off by nearly a second. Friday night's new Rebas are fine. Have you found lip sync problems on their other shows?

Drew
Lastnight being the first time I've gotten WB22's OTA digital signal I honestly can't answer that. :) I only caught about 10 minutes WB22 lastnight. Friends was on an looked/sounded ok.

Plus I only got one WLFL channel which was 22.1HD and one WRDC channel 28.1SD.

Lastnight being the first time I've gotten WB22's OTA digital signal I honestly can't answer that. :) I only caught about 10 minutes WB22 lastnight. Friends was on an looked/sounded ok.

Plus I only got one WLFL channel which was 22.1HD and one WRDC channel 28.1SD.

That's all there is right now.

That's all there is right now.
Ok, thx. Just confirming. :)

I too have been getting UPN 28 here in Duplin County about 70 miles at least what one of the websites said from the towers. 70 to 80 percent during the day and 100 at night. Since about monday I think. Before that barely a blip. Has anyone else seemed to have noticed a drop in WTVD and WRAL signals since getting UPN and WB?
I have never been able to get them during the day but now barely get them at night now, just upn is coming in all the time.

Do you guys think they boosted the signal because of the new network that is taking UPN's place? Anyone know how far off that is?

I could have done an auto-scan, but that takes too much time, so instead I used my TWC box to find out, like this...

Tune to channel 280 first, then tune to channel 999 to see the Diagnostic screen (which works only if you already disabled Parental Control, I think). Then scroll down to "Tuning", and it will show the frequency (in MHz) and the program number (aka the subchannel number).

To convert the frequency to a channel number, use either of these equations:
Channel = (Frequency - 81MHz) / 6MHz, if the frequency is between 219MHz and 645MHz.
Channel = (Frequency - 51MHz) / 6MHz, if the frequency is 651MHz or higher.

In this case, TWC channel 280 now has a frequency of 711 MHz, and the subchannel is 4, so the QAM channel is 110.4, since (711 - 51) / 6 = 110.

Thanks for all the help. SHOHD is now on 84.2 if I am doing my math correctly. One other thing of note, if it says "Clear to Air" the channel is available w/o a cable card. If not, a cable card must be used to tune. Is this correct?

Thanks.

Jeff

Do you guys think they boosted the signal because of the new network that is taking UPN's place? Anyone know how far off that is?
Doubt it. I think the deadline for going full power is in June. Suprisingly they just happen to be early.

UPN and WB cease to exist and CW network premieres in September.

One other thing of note, if it says "Clear to Air" the channel is available w/o a cable card. If not, a cable card must be used to tune. Is this correct?

Thanks.

Jeff
Correct. But with a cablecard there shouldn't be a need to tune directly to the 84.2 QAM channel.

The biggest difficulty I had was, by default, the parental control was set to "on". So, when I tuned to 999, I could not see the sub channel. This is a great tool to be able to use your QAM tuner.

Lastnight being the first time I've gotten WB22's OTA digital signal I honestly can't answer that. :) I only caught about 10 minutes WB22 lastnight. Friends was on an looked/sounded ok.

Plus I only got one WLFL channel which was 22.1HD and one WRDC channel 28.1SD.

The weird thing for me is that I used to get a signal from WLFL during the day and nothing from WRDC during the day. Now, I get WRDC all day long, but WLFL only at night. During the day, I can't even get any measurable signal from WLFL anymore. Bizarre!

The weird thing for me is that I used to get a signal from WLFL during the day and nothing from WRDC during the day. Now, I get WRDC all day long, but WLFL only at night. During the day, I can't even get any measurable signal from WLFL anymore. Bizarre!
HeHe, yep that's bizarre. I still haven't gotten to watch them beside a few minutes that first night (thursday). The weather wouldn't let me get anything from Raleigh at all yesterday or lastnight. I'm gettin WRAL and WRAZ right now but the rest are still slightly too weak. Should strengthen by dark though. :)

Since WLFL has gone to full power I am getting 70%-80% signal indicator but no pictuce what so ever (black screen with guide info). I have an dish Network 811. Is there anyone else having the same issue with this station?

Do the subchannels on WUNC/PBS OTA typically look like this?

This is what I'm getting with an AccessDTV card...
59.1, virtual 4.2, name is UNC-HD but it shows a UNC-TV logo on the bottom
59.2, virtual 4.5, name is UNC-NC but it shows a UNC-TV logo on the bottom
59.3, virtual 320.78, no name but it says "The program services of UNC-HD will resume at 8:00 P.M."
59.4, virtual 16.872, no name but it shows a UNC-KD logo in the bottom right corner
59.5, virtual 448.256, no name but it shows a UNC-ED logo in the bottom right corner

Why do the last three have strange virtual channel numbers and no names?

Do the subchannels on WUNC/PBS OTA typically look like this?

This is what I'm getting with an AccessDTV card...
59.1, virtual 4.2, name is UNC-HD but it shows a UNC-TV logo on the bottom
59.2, virtual 4.5, name is UNC-NC but it shows a UNC-TV logo on the bottom
59.3, virtual 320.78, no name but it says "The program services of UNC-HD will resume at 8:00 P.M."
59.4, virtual 16.872, no name but it shows a UNC-KD logo in the bottom right corner
59.5, virtual 448.256, no name but it shows a UNC-ED logo in the bottom right corner

Why do the last three have strange virtual channel numbers and no names?

I get 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, and 4.5.

4.1 UNCTV (SD, same as analog channel 4)
4.2 is the HD channel, and only broadcasts from 8pm-11pm.
4.3 is UNC Kids (24 hrs)
4.4 UNC-ED (when 4.2 is not broadcasting)
4.5 UNC-NC (when 4.2 is not broadcasting)

my tuner is internal to my Sony TV.

Now I'm getting something else for the last three...
59.3, virtual 14.1008, no name
59.4, virtual 1.333, name is "D"
59.5, virtual 267.32, no name

Maybe there is something about its PSIP data that confuses the AccessDTV card. By the way, all other OTA channels are fine.

Thanks for all the help. SHOHD is now on 84.2 if I am doing my math correctly. One other thing of note, if it says "Clear to Air" the channel is available w/o a cable card. If not, a cable card must be used to tune. Is this correct?

Thanks.

Jeff

Does SHOHD actually say "Clear to Air"? My QAM tuner shows 84.2 as "scrambled".

Drew

Hi Guys. I've searched this thread without success, so I'm hoping I'm not posting a repeat question.

I had TWC come out and install a CableCard and HD DVR over the weekend. (I already have one SA 8300HD.) Interestingly, they brought an SA8000 box, which I'll eventually have them switch out for the 8300. Didn't think they were still doing these.

Anyway, question pertains to CableCard. Tech plugged it in and TV recognized it immediately. Problem is all my HD Suite channels showed "Not Authorized." Everything else seemed to work just fine. In discussions with the TWC office, the tech indicated that it could take up to 24 hrs. for the CC to recognize the Suite channels. I had to unplug the setup for the rest of the weekend until I can place the TV in its final location next week. Once I plug it back in, will the CC eventually recognize and allow broadcast of the Suite? Anyone have similar problems?

TIA

Haven't gotten a cable card yet. Did they charge you the $43 per card as the website says?

Yes, they charged me the $42.95 "installation" charge. Seems to work pretty well, assuming that I will eventually get access to my HD Suite.

Also: Since I've got the 8000HD. Anyone know if the DVI port is enabled on it now?

Does SHOHD actually say "Clear to Air"? My QAM tuner shows 84.2 as "scrambled".

Drew

No, it doesn't. However, 84.2 was formerly Discovery HD. I thought it was interesting as others have noted Discovery HD had "moved".

Maybe their shuffling the HD QAM channels in preporation for the possible addition of TMCHD (since according to Fred Dressler is a signed deal) or ESPN2HD.

Not sure how many of you watch Hurricanes hockey on this board, but of the HD games they have had, all of them that I can remember, haven't started ontime on INHD for the Fox Sports South HD telecast. The last few have either missed the whole first period or most of it.

Has anyone else experienced this, and is this a TWC problem, or INHD problem? There have only been about 10 games on this year in HD, and I hate it when the few times it is on, we have to miss the first part of the game. It's night and day difference watching hocky in HD.

In case any TWC didn't get this yet (thanks for the last minute notice TWC...)


Planned Upgrade May Disable Your Digital Converter Box

Beginning at approximately 3:00 a.m., Tuesday (March 28) morning, Time Warner Cable will be upgrading all digital cable converters throughout our entire service area. We expect to complete the upgrade no later than mid-day Tuesday.

The first phase of the upgrade will take approximately 5 to 30 minutes to complete. During this brief period, your digital converter box will not be available for use and a message will appear on your screen to remind you that the upgrade is taking place and that the box is temporarily unavailable. It is very important not to use your remote control or press any of the buttons on your digital converter box during this time period while the on-screen message is displayed. Trying to interact with the box during the upgrade process will cause the box to fail and will require you to exchange your digital converter.

After the first phase of the upgrade is complete (5 — 30 minutes) and the on-screen message is no longer visible, your digital converter should be functional with the following exceptions: Movies On Demand and other On Demand services will not be available after 11 p.m. tonight (Monday, March 27) until the entire upgrade has been completed mid-day on Tuesday. If your DVR is set to record a scheduled event, it will not record during the box upgrade period. When the box returns to normal after the completion of the upgrade, the DVR will resume its regular recording schedule.

After this process, if you are having problems with your converter box, please re-boot the box. To do this, simply hold the power button in for 8 seconds while the box is on. If this process does not bring the box back on, please call our Customer Care Center at 1-866-4-TWC-NOW (1-866-489-2669).

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. This special maintenance project will allow us to continue to provide great service in the future! Thank you for your patience and for being a Time Warner Cable customer!

What are they upgrading? Are we getting a new guide or something?

30 minutes strikes me as a very long time for an upgrade.. you should be able to defrag the whole HD with that much time. I saw nothing over on the SA8300HD Passport thread about what to expect. Shrug.

Mike

Possibly getting software upgraded for future SDV ability or ITV? TWCSC in Columbia have been testing that stuff for awhile now.

Does anyone know about how much it costs a month to get HD stations from TWC in the Chapel Hill area? I'm basically just looking to get stations like ESPN, Discovery, TNT, HDNET, UniversalHD, etc. I don't really want the movie channels like HBO or Showtime. Do they provide the HD tuner or will I have to buy one? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I'm new to this whole thing.

Does anyone know about how much it costs a month to get HD stations from TWC in the Chapel Hill area? I'm basically just looking to get stations like ESPN, Discovery, TNT, HDNET, UniversalHD, etc. I don't really want the movie channels like HBO or Showtime. Do they provide the HD tuner or will I have to buy one? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I'm new to this whole thing.

I would think calling TWC and telling them exactly what you want would be faster and more acurate than posting in a forum?

I would think calling TWC and telling them exactly what you want would be faster and more acurate than posting in a forum?

or just going to the TWC web site and looking up the pricing info for Chapel Hill.

http://www.twcnc.com/template/rates/2006/chapel_hill.cfm

so, it's almost 7am and my 8300HD is doing some kind of a count-up (not a countdown) on the front display. Can i touch it?

so, it's almost 7am and my 8300HD is doing some kind of a count-up (not a countdown) on the front display. Can i touch it?

No... leave it alone... Their note from yesterday indicated that if you mess with it during the update you may have to exchange it for a new one.

Well with this update we can now add channels to a SKIP list. I added a bunch and they still show up. I guess it should work at some point though. Also in the diag screen (channel 999) they added "MR-DVR" (multi room ???).

Well with this update we can now add channels to a SKIP list. I added a bunch and they still show up. I guess it should work at some point though. Also in the diag screen (channel 999) they added "MR-DVR" (multi room ???).

That will be great when it works. The only thing i don't like about the 8300 is that I have to look at every single channel in the guide.

Does anyone know about how much it costs a month to get HD stations from TWC in the Chapel Hill area? I'm basically just looking to get stations like ESPN, Discovery, TNT, HDNET, UniversalHD, etc. I don't really want the movie channels like HBO or Showtime.
$14.95 per month (plus taxes and fees) for "Basic Service" gets you ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/PBS/TNT/Discovery in HD. If you don't own a QAM tuner, then TWC can rent you their HD digital box (and remote control) for an extra $7.95 per month.

or...

$68.70 per month (plus taxes and fees) for "Basic+Standard+Digital Service" and "HD Suite" also gets you ESPN/INHD/HDNet/Universal/OnDemand in HD. If you own a QAM tuner that has a slot for a CableCARD, then TWC can rent you a CableCARD for an extra $1.75 per month (plus a one-time $42.95 installation fee). Otherwise, TWC can rent you their HD digital box for an extra $7.95 per month.
Do they provide the HD tuner or will I have to buy one? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I'm new to this whole thing.
TWC can rent you their HD digital box. Or, you can use your own QAM tuner, which must have a CableCARD installed if you want to get the "HD Suite" channels.

Oh thanks that was really helpful. Where can I buy a tuner that has a Cablecard slot?

Oh thanks that was really helpful. Where can I buy a tuner that has a Cablecard slot?

Your TV either must have one (like my Samsung HLR-5078) built in or you must have something like Sony's HD-DVR tuner with CableCard.

In case any TWC didn't get this yet (thanks for the last minute notice TWC...)

Where'd the notice come from???

Where'd the notice come from???

email

Well with this update we can now add channels to a SKIP list. I added a bunch and they still show up. I guess it should work at some point though. Also in the diag screen (channel 999) they added "MR-DVR" (multi room ???).

that function only skips channels when you are surfing, they still show up in the guide. More effort than it's worth to black list channels for that.

The update also adds SATA functionality to the 8300 (which may or may not work), puts the reminder option back for programs and gives you some nicer channel logos.

For regular Passport boxes I noticed that it gives you the Digital Audio Out fix.

Not much else from what I can see.

that function only skips channels when you are surfing, they still show up in the guide. More effort than it's worth to black list channels for that.

The update also adds SATA functionality to the 8300 (which may or may not work), puts the reminder option back for programs and gives you some nicer channel logos.

For regular Passport boxes I noticed that it gives you the Digital Audio Out fix.

Not much else from what I can see.
So with the Sata function made available, does that mean we can add a hard drive to the boxes with passport now?

Also, what is the Digital Audio Out fix? Was there anything wrong with it before?

There's also a new option added to set end time recording for live events recording without having to go into "more options".

I would prefer a "force tune" option over the "reminder" option. I was also hoping for an added option to use black sidebars. I think there's more upgrading coming soon.

Well, i was just checking out the upgrades and it looks like they made the HDMI function disabled on the 8300. All I get now is snow with HDMI. It worked fine for about 5 minutes and then wouldnt work anymore. Im not to upset because I find that the component connection offers richer and better colors anyway but, why would they disable HDMI?

SATA hard drive definatly works.

For those that need help.
1.) unplug 8300hd
2.) power up hard drive and hook up sata\esata cable
3.) plug in 8300hd; it will prompt you to format

Off to Tiger Direct to upgrade HD. Later.

cool, i figured the hard drive opption would work now. cool.

SATA hard drive definatly works.


Can you move the HD between different 8300's? Eg, 2 8300s in the same house?

Drew

Well, i was just checking out the upgrades and it looks like they made the HDMI function disabled on the 8300. All I get now is snow with HDMI. It worked fine for about 5 minutes and then wouldnt work anymore. Im not to upset because I find that the component connection offers richer and better colors anyway but, why would they disable HDMI?

I hope the HDMI disable isn't true...I've never had my 8300 hooked up to my set via component...that would suck.

I hope the HDMI disable isn't true...I've never had my 8300 hooked up to my set via component...that would suck.
I just restarted the box and the HDMI works now. You should try connecting your set to component just to see if there is a difference. I find component to have a bit better color.

I think the "channel skip" function is a big plus. Allows you to channel surf without having to scan through 45 channels in row that you don't suscribe to. Also, in the channel skip menu, channel 223 is reserved for WLFL-SD, although it does not show up in the guide.

I think the "channel skip" function is a big plus. Allows you to channel surf without having to scan through 45 channels in row that you don't suscribe to. Also, in the channel skip menu, channel 223 is reserved for WLFL-SD, although it does not show up in the guide.
it would be alot better if we could remove the channels from the guide that we dont want to see. i never surf threw channels, so that function is worthless to me.

I think the "channel skip" function is a big plus. Allows you to channel surf without having to scan through 45 channels in row that you don't suscribe to. Also, in the channel skip menu, channel 223 is reserved for WLFL-SD, although it does not show up in the guide.
May have been simpler to select the channels you want to surf but I guess Favorites allows that but just not with the channel up/down buttons. :)

it would be alot better if we could remove the channels from the guide that we dont want to see. i never surf threw channels, so that function is worthless to me.

(Or at least "gray-out" channels not subscribed to.)

SATA hard drive definatly works.

For those that need help.
1.) unplug 8300hd
2.) power up hard drive and hook up sata\esata cable
3.) plug in 8300hd; it will prompt you to format

Off to Tiger Direct to upgrade HD. Later.
How can you be sure without trying one? So were do we find a SATA box online that we can be sure works on the 8300HD DVR (cheap-o)?

it would be alot better if we could remove the channels from the guide that we dont want to see. i never surf threw channels, so that function is worthless to me.

Amen.
The thought of not being able to remove the porn listings or any other inapropriate listings from the guide is unforgivable. This is done so we are forced to see the PPV and movie channels in hopes we will subscribe.
SAT lets you hide them but TWC wants my kids to run across such listings as "Interracial Sex Cravings 1", "Young Bung" and "Black Meat Frenzy 1.

Thanks TWC you are a great community leader.

That was a significant upgrade.

From:
[old on 8-25-05]
Versions:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.8.111
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.43.3sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: July 29 2005
OS Date: July 6 2004
PowerKey: PKEY_3.8.4.1-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: June 22 2004

To:
[NEW on 3-28-06]
Versions:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.5.048
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.60.1sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: March 20 2006
OS Date: Dec 2 2005
PowerKey: PKEY_3.8.4.2-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: Sep 9 2005

The boot screen doesn't say "Pioneer" anymore either. It now says "APTiV" but still says "Passport Echo".

How can you be sure without trying one? So were do we find a SATA box online that we can be sure works on the 8300HD DVR (cheap-o)?

Oh, I tried it.
I had a PC from work here to play with. I left it in the chasis and connected a sata/esata cable to it with the pc still powering the drive. It worked just like I said.
Tiger Direct didn't have crap. I'll end up getting something from NEWEGG later.
I have several 200gb IDE drives that I wanted to throw in a SATA external enclosure; so my needs may be different. I may just go ahead and get a external SATA though. I'm sure everyone will start posting which ones they got working, but I'm sure all true SATA drives will work.

Hi y'all,

Just jumping in here from the "SA 8000HD & 8300HD w/ Passport software (TWC)" and the "8300HD and External SATA - It Works!!" threads.

Coupla points: You may be a beta site as it's been reported that Aptiv is still reporting another six weeks before eSATA will operate. And I encourage you to subscribe - and do a lot of back reading - on the "8300HD and External SATA - It Works!!" thread. Actually, that name is ironic as many are reporting 8300HD behavior that will curl your eyelids. True, they're all SARA-istas, but it's not as simple as buying the biggest/cheapest SATA drive and hanging it on the STB. Check out the thread for yourself.

Is there such a thing as a USB to Sata Cable? I have a USB Hard Drive and I am interested in connecting it to the sata port on the 8300 box. Will this work or no?

Is there such a thing as a USB to Sata Cable? I have a USB Hard Drive and I am interested in connecting it to the sata port on the 8300 box. Will this work or no?
I replied to your identical post on the other thread . .

Is there such a thing as a USB to Sata Cable? I have a USB Hard Drive and I am interested in connecting it to the sata port on the 8300 box. Will this work or no?

The short answer is No.
If you open up the case and the drive inside is a SATA, you could plug the sata/esata cable directly into it. More than likely the internal drive is going to be IDE, in which you would need an external enclosure for IDE to SATA like this one...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155218

I just ordered it and will let everyone know if it works.

Wait till we get to Passport Echo version 2.7.
APTiV Passport Echo (http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp)

I replied to your identical post on the other thread . .
i didnt like your answer. lol :)

Wait till we get to Passport Echo version 2.7.
APTiV Passport Echo (http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp)
What makes that version better? I didnt see anything in that link that looks any different. Maybe im just a little slow. :)

What makes that version better? I didnt see anything in that link that looks any different. Maybe im just a little slow. :)
I like the future possibility of the Mosaic feature of v2.7. Below is also a quote from This (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7387234&&#post7387234) post.
NC interface is primarily Pioneer, not SA (SARA) thus the difference. There is a uniform interface in the works that will be pushed out to all TWC over the course of the next 6 to 18 months - SARA divisions like TWCSC will get this after all Pioneer Divisions.
Looks like EPG changes are a coming. Most likely in preporation/company with SDV and ITV (just a guess).

I just restarted the box and the HDMI works now. You should try connecting your set to component just to see if there is a difference. I find component to have a bit better color.

I have a 60" SXRD. I can't imagine the picture getting better. I will give it a try though.

I have a 60" SXRD. I can't imagine the picture getting better. I will give it a try though.
With my 61'' Sammy the picture is beautiful with HDMI as it is with Component. I find HDMI to be slightly more clear and crisp. I find Component to have a slight advantage in color. I use HDMI simply because I like the clear, crisp picture it provides. However. component seems to look better with films and such, HDMI looks better when watching HD television such as the network shows shot with HD cameras and shows on Discovery HD and so on. Again the difference is VERY slight and most people wouldnt be able to tell, but im anal about PQ. :)

Hi all,

I'm in Raleigh, about 21 miles from the NBC, CBS, and Fox towers. Both NBC and CBS OTA signals come in nice and strong with steady signal ratings of about 88. Fox is horrible, it jumps all over the place from the teens to the 90's and needless to say the picture comes in and out.

Is there anything that I can do to make the Fox reception better? I would expect them to have the same strength as the other two stations as they are the same distance and direction from here.

Thanks for your input.

Hi all,

I'm in Raleigh, about 21 miles from the NBC, CBS, and Fox towers. Both NBC and CBS OTA signals come in nice and strong with steady signal ratings of about 88. Fox is horrible, it jumps all over the place from the teens to the 90's and needless to say the picture comes in and out.

Is there anything that I can do to make the Fox reception better? I would expect them to have the same strength as the other two stations as they are the same distance and direction from here.

Thanks for your input.

- Install an outdoor antenna
- get your antenna higher

Anyone notice that post-upgrade the video output is locked at 1080i and 480p? I've got a 720p DLP and prefer to have my 8300 output in that format, but when trying to change it (post upgrade) last evening, the box won't let me. I'm using a HDMI-DVI cable to my DLP.

Suggestions?

Anyone notice that post-upgrade the video output is locked at 1080i and 480p? I've got a 720p DLP and prefer to have my 8300 output in that format, but when trying to change it (post upgrade) last evening, the box won't let me. I'm using a HDMI-DVI cable to my DLP.

Suggestions?

I use component connections and pass-through all resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) in order to let the TV do the scaling rather than the 8300. This usually gives noticably better results, although there is the annoying "gear-shift" while my TV changes formats.

My 8300 still allows selection of all four outputs.

Hi all,

I'm in Raleigh, about 21 miles from the NBC, CBS, and Fox towers. Both NBC and CBS OTA signals come in nice and strong with steady signal ratings of about 88. Fox is horrible, it jumps all over the place from the teens to the 90's and needless to say the picture comes in and out.

Is there anything that I can do to make the Fox reception better? I would expect them to have the same strength as the other two stations as they are the same distance and direction from here.

Thanks for your input.

What are you using for an antenna?

Looks as if I got hit by an upgrade gremlin. I have the SA8300HD and came home last night to a dead quiet system. If I changed the audio settings in the SA8300HD to stereo out, I will get audio. Dolby Digital gets the dead silence. Since both are going over optical, I don't expect that I have a problem with the connection nor receiver (Denon 3805).

Any ideas?

Ive got the post upgrade blues too... HDMI-DVI doesnt work at all anymore for me. Pre upgrade... it was very flakey, but now it doesnt even show the 'non-compliant' message or anything. Plugging in the cable causes component to shut off and TV indicates 'no signal' on component or DVI. Two upgrades ago, it worked fine. I was hoping this time I was actually going to get DVI back. oh well.....

I've got a Denon 2805 (or maybe 2801...) and am having no trouble, post-upgrade. Also using digital audio out to my Denon, with DD selected on 8300HD prefs. Try a reboot? (on the last firmware at least, I know there was a bug that would cause the 8300 to stop outputting DD, only DPL, but even then I was getting sound).

In answer to the resolution probs, I am hooked up component and had all resolutions available on the menu.. that was one preference that did not get saved during the update as I had disabled all but 1080i and had to re-disable them post-update.

Mike

sat968 and zim2dive.

have you tried to restart the box? my hdmi connection wasnt working until I restarted the box.

re-connect everything. unplud your 8300, unplug your reciever, pull out the Toslink cables and put them back in again. once everything is restarted it should work.

My 8300HD was stuck in some loop. The front panel was displaying h000, couting up to h999 then resetting and counting up again. Reboots didn't help. I moved the box to a different coax connection (one that is usually stronger and gives a clearer picture) and the update went fine.

I then moved the box back to the original location, and it works great. Before, a lot of the channels in the 100's would not even tune in, i would get a blank screen. Signal strength i presumed. I have not seen that problem at all since the upgrade. All channels tune in.

my entire box was locked by parental control after the upgrade. It took a bit of guessing, but putting in all 0's for the PIN unlocked it.

All resolutions are available.


The box was turned off this morning. Not sure why that happened. I never turn it off.

My 8300HD was stuck in some loop. The front panel was displaying h000, couting up to h999 then resetting and counting up again. Reboots didn't help. It was probly in the middle of its upgrade.

Ive got the post upgrade blues too... HDMI-DVI doesnt work at all anymore for me. Pre upgrade... it was very flakey, but now it doesnt even show the 'non-compliant' message or anything. Plugging in the cable causes component to shut off and TV indicates 'no signal' on component or DVI. Two upgrades ago, it worked fine. I was hoping this time I was actually going to get DVI back. oh well.....
it sounds to me like your TV is not HDCP compliant. the new software upgrade may just be enforcing the compliance issue more.

If you have issues after an upgrade:

1. Unplug the box from AC for a few minutes and then plug it back in. If still not working correctly -

2. Call your cableco and have them reset/reflash it.

It was probly in the middle of its upgrade.


Perhaps. When did the upgrade start? 3am? If so, it was upgrading from 3am until 6pm the next day. Then moving to a different coax connection, the upgrade finished in 5 minutes.

it sounds to me like your TV is not HDCP compliant. the new software upgrade may just be enforcing the compliance issue more.
I don't think any displays were made with HDMI that weren't HDCP compliant as it's part of the HDMI spec. Try swapping the box for another one.

I don't think any displays were made with HDMI that weren't HDCP compliant as it's part of the HDMI spec. Try swapping the box for another one.
I was under the impression that his TV only has a DVI port.

What are you using for an antenna?

I've got a Radio Shack U-75R antenna mounted in the attic. Every channel comes in very good except for Fox 50.

I'm going to try an amplifier before I install the antenna on the roof...I may have to hire someone as I don't want to be up that high!

I was under the impression that his TV only has a DVI port.
Maybe I didn't read enough back posts; was the TV model mentioned? There definitely were DVI-equipped sets made w/o HDCP. Later DVI'd displays have it, but the first didn't.

Anyone notice that post-upgrade the video output is locked at 1080i and 480p? I've got a 720p DLP and prefer to have my 8300 output in that format, but when trying to change it (post upgrade) last evening, the box won't let me. I'm using a HDMI-DVI cable to my DLP.

Suggestions?
I'm using HDMI but don't have that problem. Try unhooking the HDMI/DVI cable, temporarily connect a component from box to tv (just to get box to reconfigure outputs) then switch back to the HDMI/DVI cable see if that helps.

Perhaps. When did the upgrade start? 3am? If so, it was upgrading from 3am until 6pm the next day. Then moving to a different coax connection, the upgrade finished in 5 minutes.
My boxes last cold boot ysterday morn was as 5:18am (apparently caused by the upgrade). No idea what time it started. :)

I'm using HDMI but don't have that problem. Try unhooking the HDMI/DVI cable, temporarily connect a component from box to tv (just to get box to reconfigure outputs) then switch back to the HDMI/DVI cable see if that helps.
if i connect a component cable to my box, i have to unplug the box to get hdmi to work. i cannot switch sources like i could before.

No idea what time it started. :)3am

sat968 and zim2dive.

have you tried to restart the box? my hdmi connection wasnt working until I restarted the box.

re-connect everything. unplud your 8300, unplug your reciever, pull out the Toslink cables and put them back in again. once everything is restarted it should work.

I just tried the reboot. Didn't change a thing, however I didn't see your suggestion to unplug the cable in time. I'll try your suggestion later tonight.

Since others have it working, I'm guessing with enough fiddling around, I'll find the problem.

Anybody seeing any difference in their QAM Clear to Air channel assignment from before the update? I can also go into my tv menu's "DigitalCable" channel editor and see the channel numbers with the channel names now added.

Before they looked like this on my tv:
0 CBS5 SD WRAL
0 ABC11 SD WTVD-DT
0 TVGUIDE CHANNEL
0 WB22 SD WLFL
0 NBA LEAGUE PASS PREVIEW CHANNEL
0 TNTHD
0 FOX50 SD WRAZ
0 UPN28 SD WRDC
0 OXYGEN CHANNEL
0 UNC-TV SD (KIDS?)
0 NBC17 SD WNCN-DT
0 QVC SHOPPING CHANNEL
0 HSN HOME SHOPPING NETWORK
0 TRAVEL CHANNEL
0 TWC NEWS14 CAROLINA WEATHER CHANNEL (CABLE CH.100)
0 ONDEMAND PREVIEW
0 EVENTS INDEMAND PREVIEW
0 CBS5 HD WRAL
0 DISCHD
0 WGN9 SD
0 UNIVISION SD
0 TELEFUTURA SD
0 WFPX PAX62
0 SAHLA LOCAL ACCESS CHANNEL (?) CH.60 ON CABLE
0 NEWS14 NEW CHANNEL
0 NBC SD WECT6
0 WB NETWORK (NO OTA AFFILIATE)
0 WFXB43 FOX
0 WBTW13 CBS
0 WPDE15 ABC
0 WMMB21 UPN
0 WAUG-TV (RALEIGH LOCAL)
0 WRAL5 SD WEATHER CENTER (113.4
4.3 UNCSD KIDS
4.4 UNC-ED
4.5 UNC-TV
5.1 CBS WRAL5 HD
5.2 CBS WRAL5 SD NEWS
5.3 CBS WRAL5 SD
5.4 BLANK
5.5 BLANK
11.1 ABC WTVD11 HD
11.2 ABC WTVD11 SD RADAR
11.3 ABC WTVD11 SD
17.1 NBC WNCN17 HD
17.2 NBC WNCN17 SD
17.3 NBC WNCN17 WEATHER PLUS
50.2 FOX50 WRAZ HD
50.3 FOX50 WRAZ SD

Now these are most of the changes:
DISCHD maps to ch.280
TNTHD maps to ch.281
ONDEMAND PREVIEW maps to ch.600
NBA LEAGUE PASS PREVIEW CHANNEL maps to ch.710
Superstation WGN maps to ch.21.1 (this is new clear to air addition)
WUVC UNIVISION maps to ch.8.1
WRDC UPN28 maps to ch.10.1
WLFL WB22 maps to ch.12.1
N14C maps to ch.14.1
HSN maps to ch.15.1
QVC maps to ch.16.1
Telefutura maps to ch.20.1
NC14Weather maps to ch.100
WAUG maps to ch.102

To be clear, this is using my tv's built-in QAM tuner.

3am
HeHe, I knew their announced time but I know their not always on schedule. :)

I've got a Radio Shack U-75R antenna mounted in the attic. Every channel comes in very good except for Fox 50.

I'm going to try an amplifier before I install the antenna on the roof...I may have to hire someone as I don't want to be up that high!

Assuming the antenna is aimed in the right direction, I would first try relocating it in the attic. UHF reception is prone to "sweet-spots" and not so sweet spots. A foot or two in any direction can make a world of difference. Signal strength is probably not your problem. Cancelization of signal due to multipath probably is. Use analog channel 50 as a reference for aiming the antenna. Good luck.

Anyone that has problems with their box needs to keep in mind that both the HDMI and Optical Audio require a handshake. So the problems can usually be fixed by reconnecting the cables or cycling the power on both 8300 and your Audio Receiver or TV.
I had a problem with the DD audio stuttering once and I just went into the menu and switched it to HDMI and back to DD to resolve it.

The optical audio problem I've seen I believe is a farily reproducible bug, and one that powering on/off will not fix.

Belongs more in the overall 8300HD thread than here. Simply put, it appears that if you record 2 shows at once, and get the dialog box popping up telling you you'll need to cancel one recording, or switch to the tuned show of the one of the 2 recordings, the box stops outputting DD, even when you play back DVR'd shows that are DD, even after the in-progress recordings finish. Only a full reboot will re-enable DD. Had it happen to me multiple times now. No idea if the problem exists in the new firmware.

As for HDMI, I have no problems, I use my TVs HDMI input for my upscaling DVD player, that is why I use component.

Mike

Maybe I didn't read enough back posts; was the TV model mentioned? There definitely were DVI-equipped sets made w/o HDCP. Later DVI'd displays have it, but the first didn't.

Its DVI and definitely HDCP compliant. Works great with Denon upscaling DVD which requires HDCP. Its a Loewe Articos 55.

Ok lets make sure none of us are missing anything.

What exactly did we get with this update?
1.) SATA support (great news)
2.) An extra prompt on deletions
3.) A SKIP list (that doesn't work for the Guide) {USELESS}

What else?

Ok lets make sure none of us are missing anything.

What exactly did we get with this update?
1.) SATA support (great news)
2.) An extra prompt on deletions
3.) A SKIP list (that doesn't work for the Guide) {USELESS}

What else?
Does "048" have a Multi-Room-DVR page? The "043" that I've got does (but no SATA).

Ok lets make sure none of us are missing anything.

What exactly did we get with this update?
1.) SATA support (great news)
2.) An extra prompt on deletions
3.) A SKIP list (that doesn't work for the Guide) {USELESS}

What else?
A "Reminder me about this show" option
A "Set End Time" option just before setting a live event timer recording (live event only)
MR-DVR (no status yet)

A "Reminder me about this show" option
A "Set End Time" option just before setting a live event timer recording (live event only)
MR-DVR (no status yet)

I only have one 8300HD my other box is a 8000. I noticed the MR-DVR after the upgrade but that doesn't mean it wasn't there before. My 8000 does not have it.
So what receivers could even use it? Dunno.

I only have one 8300HD my other box is a 8000. I noticed the MR-DVR after the upgrade but that doesn't mean it wasn't there before. My 8000 does not have it.
So what receivers could even use it? Dunno.
My cableco told me they upped the Passport version because SA began shipping a new HARDWARE rev. The new Passport (2.5.043) merely happens to have an MR page and capability, but they don't know if they'll offer it as they become a Comcast property May 1.

Here's a link to Aptiv Digital's MR info - http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/mrdvr.asp

I only have one 8300HD my other box is a 8000. I noticed the MR-DVR after the upgrade but that doesn't mean it wasn't there before. My 8000 does not have it.
So what receivers could even use it? Dunno.
It wasn't there before on my 8300HD DVR, I'm absolutely certain. I would scroll down to the second last option in DIAG daily to check my remaining HDD space. No SATA or MR-DVR option was anywhere in the list. As for it's usability I haven't a clue. :)

Erik,

A coworker of mine may be experiencing some of the same issues as you. Before the TWC upgrade he had a stretch feature that got rid of the side bars, after the upgrade the stretch feature is producing a lousy picture. This could be related to the upgrade changing the res. At any rate he was not happy with the upgrade for that reason,

Chamill,

Try rotating your attic antenna. I have experienced similar STB OTA problems with channel 11. Booster didn't help it either. It basically sounds like you are experieincing multipath. PBS channel 4 gives me fits occasionly also.

paulnccu
anybody on TW basic cable or OTA not getting discovery channel on 84.2? i haven't received a signal on 84.2, discovery HD, in three days...anybody else?

OTA ATSC folks do not recieve discovery. I wish we did.

In general I have to agree with other posts about 22 and 28 ATSC OTA. I now get 28 in very well without having rotated my antenna.

So what will happen when 22 and 28 ATSC OTA combine? Will one or the other be disabled??????????????

-DonB2

Ok lets make sure none of us are missing anything.

What exactly did we get with this update?
1.) SATA support (great news)
2.) An extra prompt on deletions
3.) A SKIP list (that doesn't work for the Guide) {USELESS}

What else?

I could be not remembering correctly, but I think the side bars in SD content were black before. They are grey now.

So what will happen when 22 and 28 ATSC OTA combine? Will one or the other be disabled??????????????

Is this supposed to happen? One of them is picking up The CW or My Network, I thought? I figured one or the other would continue as an independent station. Plus, one of them is supposed to start running The Tube music network this summer.

However, with regards to My Network TV, I figured WRAZ would make a run for it since it's a Fox product anyway.

I could be not remembering correctly, but I think the side bars in SD content were black before. They are grey now.
They were grey before, atleast on the 8300HD DVR.

I've had my LG HDTV connected to my 8300 cable box with component cables and regular audio. My TV has a DVI connection, which I wanted to try and compare the PQ with the component connection. I've order a DVI-HDMI cable and a digital audio optical cable. When I get them, can I just hook them up along with the current component cables and switch back and forth between the component output and the DVI output? or is it either or? unhook the component and hook up the DVI?

Thanks in advance,
Raleigh1208

I've had my LG HDTV connected to my 8300 cable box with component cables and regular audio. My TV has a DVI connection, which I wanted to try and compare the PQ with the component connection. I've order a DVI-HDMI cable and a digital audio optical cable. When I get them, can I just hook them up along with the current component cables and switch back and forth between the component output and the DVI output? or is it either or? unhook the component and hook up the DVI?

Thanks in advance,
Raleigh1208
i could switch back and forth before the upgrade but not anymore. if i have them both plugged in the HDMI turns to snow on the screen and the box has to be re-booted.

Is this supposed to happen? One of them is picking up The CW or My Network, I thought? I figured one or the other would continue as an independent station. Plus, one of them is supposed to start running The Tube music network this summer.

However, with regards to My Network TV, I figured WRAZ would make a run for it since it's a Fox product anyway.

WLFL will be an The CW affiliate, and WRDC will become a MyNetwork TV affiliate. There was a press release posted in the HDTV programming forum on this site listing WRDC as one of the first markets for MNTV. MNTV is supposed to be a competing network, so it wouldnt do much good for WRAZ to attempt to carry it as well.

I also noticed with this upgrade to my 8300HD, that it turns off at night. I never turn off the DVR, but now, every day I have to turn it back on. Not sure at what point it actually turns off, but I'd like to figure out when/why.

Fox is horrible, it jumps all over the place from the teens to the 90's and needless to say the picture comes in and out.


Is FOX always horrible for you?

When we watched Tues night's OTA recording of American Idol, there were tons of breakups. Out of a 60 minute show, we got about 54 minutes. The breakups were much worse toward 8pm, and had pretty much disappeared by 9pm. House at 9pm was fine. My DVR's log files confirm that there was a reception problem.

This was the worst problem I've ever had with any OTA recording since I set up my DVR a year ago, including weekly recordings of Reba on WB22 before they boosted their signal strength. I wonder if something happened with FOX50, or if it was weather.. I don't think it is the foliage coming out, as I did not have the problem last fall, and the glitches disappeared by 9pm.

Drew

I also noticed with this upgrade to my 8300HD, that it turns off at night. I never turn off the DVR, but now, every day I have to turn it back on. Not sure at what point it actually turns off, but I'd like to figure out when/why.


Yeah my 8000HD does this as well. Drives me nuts when I get home from work, turn on the TV and there's no picture ;). On the plus side though, the upgrade fixed my box. Prior, I couldn't go into the advanced settings. As soon as I would, the box would reboot. I have full control over it again :).

Also, SOOO very glad they added the alert options to the DVR's. That was one of my favorite options before I switched to DVR and was very upset that I could no longer alert myself, just record. Glad it's back :)

yeah, my 8300HD turns off too. I hate that.. And there only seems to be about 24 hrs of guide data.

MNTV is supposed to be a competing network, so it wouldnt do much good for WRAZ to attempt to carry it as well.

That is a valid point; I should have thought about that. :D

Here is the list of what the Update gave us. Did I miss anything?

1.) SATA support (great news)
2.) An extra prompt on deletions
3.) A SKIP list (that doesn't work for the Guide) {USELESS}
4.) Alerts - "Reminder me about this show" option
5.) Automatic Turn off at Night ( Is it still buffering the show? If so, why even turn it off )
6.) A "Set End Time" option just before setting a live event timer recording (live event only)

Maybe their shuffling the HD QAM channels in preporation for the possible addition of TMCHD (since according to Fred Dressler is a signed deal) or ESPN2HD.

I just e-mailed Dressler about ESPN2HD being added before MLB opening day (as he and others have led us to believe for months now). Well ... surprise, surprise-- he's changed his tune.

He reports no progress in adding ESPN2HD or the NFL Network. If you're like me and love sports, this might just be the last straw. Come on Verizon Fios!!

Here is the list of what the Update gave us. Did I miss anything?

1.) SATA support (great news)
2.) An extra prompt on deletions
3.) A SKIP list (that doesn't work for the Guide) {USELESS}
4.) Alerts - "Reminder me about this show" option
5.) Automatic Turn off at Night ( Is it still buffering the show? If so, why even turn it off )
6.) A "Set End Time" option just before setting a live event timer recording (live event only)

Just talked to someone in the Fayetville office of TWC and was told that although our 8300HD boxes say the SATA port is "Authorized", the port still doesn't work. He's going to see if he can get more information.

Just talked to someone in the Fayetville office of TWC and was told that although our 8300HD boxes say the SATA port is "Authorized", the port still doesn't work. He's going to see if he can get more information.

Dunno about Fayetville, but it works in Cary on my box. So if Fayetville has the same versions as we have it works there too. I would chalk this up to uninformed TWC employees.

I haven't seen any post on success other than mine, has no one else got a SATA to plug in yet? CompUSA is not far away. Come on guys I thought this was a group of "Bleeding Edgers", get you wallets out. What's an extra $150 on top of the price of your Home Theater?

I've got a Sony Wega CRT HDTV (KD-30XS955) and TWC in Cary (no cable box). After the upgrade I cannot find Discovery HD Theater or TNT-HD on my TV. Last night they were at 110.4 and 84.3, respectively, but this morning I clicked through all of the Show/Hide channel options and they are nowhere to be found. Can anyone with a cable box tell me the new frequency/subchannel for those so I can find the appropriate QAM channels? Thanks in advance for the help!

I've got a Sony Wega CRT HDTV (KD-30XS955) and TWC in Cary (no cable box). After the upgrade I cannot find Discovery HD Theater or TNT-HD on my TV. Last night they were at 110.4 and 84.3, respectively, but this morning I clicked through all of the Show/Hide channel options and they are nowhere to be found. Can anyone with a cable box tell me the new frequency/subchannel for those so I can find the appropriate QAM channels? Thanks in advance for the help!
They are still their but as of today they are not set as "Clear to Air" anymore so your QAM tuner won't show them now. Now idea if this is permanent though. Their regrouping channels for new arrangement of teirs. IFC, Outdoor Channel and Game Show channel are already been moved two days earlier than scheduled.

Thank you for the quick reply; I hope this isn't permanent... :-(

yeah, my 8300HD turns off too. I hate that.. And there only seems to be about 24 hrs of guide data.
I havent noticed that my box turns off because I always turn it off at night.

My guide gives me the full weeks listings though.

...Come on Verizon Fios!!

PLEASE tell me that Verizon Fios is coming to our area!!! Do you know something that I haven't read yet? I am in Cary.

PLEASE tell me that Verizon Fios is coming to our area!!! Do you know something that I haven't read yet? I am in Cary.
its not. not for a very long time at least. nothing to look forward too.

PLEASE tell me that Verizon Fios is coming to our area!!! Do you know something that I haven't read yet? I am in Cary.

Verizon will be rolling out Fios in areas where they are the incumbant telco. In our area, the recent annoucement that Bell South will be acquired by the "new" AT&T means we will probably see "Project Lightspeed".

Fios is a fiber to the home solution, while Lightspeed is a fiber to the curb solution. Somewhere is read that AT&T expected to deploy Lightspeed passed 30 million homes over the next five years. We'll see......

I havent noticed that my box turns off because I always turn it off at night.
I don't have the 8300HD, but I have the 3250HD. It consumes 19 watts when turned on, but still consumes 18 watts when turned off. It would be much better to unplug it if you want to save power.

I don't have the 8300HD, but I have the 3250HD. It consumes 19 watts when turned on, but still consumes 18 watts when turned off. It would be much better to unplug it if you want to save power.
It consumes nearly the same power turned on or off because it's doing nearly all the same things "off" as "on." Display is off when "off" as are output circuits. Everthing else is always on - always. Eighteen watts and somebody wants to "save power?" :confused:

After the way BellSouth bungled DSL in this area, I have no hope for them providing any kind of IPTV service any tie in the near future, with the possible except of greenfield locations (new construction). Even that I doubt :(

don't misunderstand, I would *LOVE* to see such a service here, I'm just not optomistic about it.

Mike

They are still their but as of today they are not set as "Clear to Air" anymore so your QAM tuner won't show them now. Now idea if this is permanent though. Their regrouping channels for new arrangement of teirs. IFC, Outdoor Channel and Game Show channel are already been moved two days earlier than scheduled.


Sorry if I should know this but I don't (and I'm not at home to check it)...Are 84.3 amd 110.4 -- tnt and discovery -- still available through a QAM tuner if one has TW's basic cable service?

who makes the stations "clear to air" (and if whoever they are have done so intentionally do we have any idea why they have done so)? plus, will these so-called April 1 changes affect my basic/HD package from TWC? I don't get the Outdoor or game show channels, etc. why would their new tier arrangement affect my basic/HD TWC package?

thanks

They are still their but as of today they are not set as "Clear to Air" anymore so your QAM tuner won't show them now.
If...
1. your QAM tuner has a slot for a CableCARD,
2. you have a CableCARD installed in the slot, and
3. you subscribe to TWC's "Digital Service" (aka DIGIPIC),
then your QAM tuner should be able to receive them. Otherwise, it won't.

Eighteen watts and somebody wants to "save power?" :confused:
18 watts costs around $20 per year.

i could switch back and forth before the upgrade but not anymore. if i have them both plugged in the HDMI turns to snow on the screen and the box has to be re-booted.

Crap, I had this happen on Tues and was hoping it wasn't going to be a problem.

Still observing what else may have changed, but away from home until tonight when I can start again.

If...
1. your QAM tuner has a slot for a CableCARD,
2. you have a CableCARD installed in the slot, and
3. you subscribe to TWC's "Digital Service" (aka DIGIPIC),
then your QAM tuner should be able to receive them. Otherwise, it won't.


do you, or does anybody else, know why those stations have been lifted from TWC's basic/hd offerings?

do you, or does anybody else, know why those stations have been lifted from TWC's basic/hd offerings?

Probably because they don't like us QAM'ers getting them for the "basic" cable price, and they want to sell more overpriced packages, and rent more STBs, and charge more people outragous cablecard installation fees.

Anway, this will save me some money. Now that they've killed them, there is no reason at all for me to keep even a basic cable subscription when basketball season is over...

Drew

After the way BellSouth bungled DSL in this area, I have no hope for them providing any kind of IPTV service any tie in the near future, with the possible except of greenfield locations (new construction). Even that I doubt :(

don't misunderstand, I would *LOVE* to see such a service here, I'm just not optomistic about it.

Mike

Don't expect the stodgy BellSouth mentality to stick around for long once the acquisition is completed. The reason these mergers are happening is to prevent the cable industry from becoming the "one pipe". Time is of the essence.

don't any of you get tired of the ongoing HDTV struggle??? i mean, i researched a TV for months (finally got an XBR960) because of all the hidden questions regarding the TV itself. Then, I learned I couldn't get HD over the air even though i lived in raleigh (4 different antenna attempts). Then, i bit the bullet and got basic cable (and breathed a sigh of relief when I actually got HD from it). However, just a week later, Discovery disappeared, and I only learned here that it had been moved (I never would have figured it out). The, apparently as of today, I no longer get discovery or tnt because for reasons unknown, the powers that be, whoever they are, have taken them off over-the-air access (which is funny, too, i suppose, since i don't understand for a second the connection between TW's basic cable HD offerings and those "over-the-air")...and I certainly don't know who is responsible for lifting tnt and discovery or if i can call someone to ask that they be restored....

judging by the posts in this thread, it seems HD is more an ongoing battle than anything else...and I've been lucky...over a period of two months i got a tv and reception and my tv seems to do it's thing automatically...you folks with 8300d's (a cable box model i presume?)and all sorts of other onging equipment problems seem to have more more to worry about -- and have to worry about it more often...my problems and disappointments seem quite small (and short) in comparison. yet still i feel exhausted and beat up by the whole process...

will there be a point where the two weeks i had with a great tv, perfect reception, and HD reception for cbs, abc, fox, nbc, unc, discovery, and tnt will be the norm over the period of a year or two or three? my content needs, certainly, are modest (basic cable with HD)...but will there ever be a time when i can rely on satisfying those modest needs without a daily or weekly or even monthly inquiry into forums like the AVS one here?

It consumes nearly the same power turned on or off because it's doing nearly all the same things "off" as "on." Display is off when "off" as are output circuits. Everthing else is always on - always. Eighteen watts and somebody wants to "save power?" :confused:

Correct me if I'm wrong but on your software version when you power it off and power it back up 5 minutes later; that 5 minutes is buffered and rewindable (if thats a word). If that is still the case on the new version (I'll check when I get home) then, Why?

Well lets speculate why would TWC force a power off in the middle of the night?
a.) for easier update pushes
b.) they now spin down the Hard Drive to save hardware (debate about effectiveness withstanding)
c.) ?????

don't any of you get tired of the ongoing HDTV struggle??? i mean, i researched a TV for months (finally got an XBR960) because of all the hidden questions regarding the TV itself. Then, I learned I couldn't get HD over the air even though i lived in raleigh (4 different antenna attempts). Then, i bit the bullet and got basic cable (and breathed a sigh of relief when I actually got HD from it). However, just a week later, Discovery disappeared, and I only learned here that it had been moved (I never would have figured it out). The, apparently as of today, I no longer get discovery or tnt because for reasons unknown, the powers that be, whoever they are, have taken them off over-the-air access (which is funny, too, i suppose, since i don't understand for a second the connection between TW's basic cable HD offerings and those "over-the-air")...and I certainly don't know who is responsible for lifting tnt and discovery or if i can call someone to ask that they be restored....

judging by the posts in this thread, it seems HD is more an ongoing battle than anything else...and I've been lucky...over a period of two months i got a tv and reception and my tv seems to do it's thing automatically...you folks with 8300d's (a cable box model i presume?)and all sorts of other onging equipment problems seem to have more more to worry about -- and have to worry about it more often...my problems and disappointments seem quite small (and short) in comparison. yet still i feel exhausted and beat up by the whole process...

will there be a point where the two weeks i had with a great tv, perfect reception, and HD reception for cbs, abc, fox, nbc, unc, discovery, and tnt will be the norm over the period of a year or two or three? my content needs, certainly, are modest (basic cable with HD)...but will there ever be a time when i can rely on satisfying those modest needs without a daily or weekly or even monthly inquiry into forums like the AVS one here?

No.

Well lets speculate why would TWC force a power off in the middle of the night?
a.) for easier update pushes
b.) they now spin down the Hard Drive to save hardware (debate about effectiveness withstanding)
c.) ?????


we need to get someone to stay up all night with the box on and see what time it turns off. i will stay up until 2 am tonight. anyone want a 2am to 6 am shift? lol. what happens if im recording something in the middle of the night, does that get canceled?

Correct me if I'm wrong
Gosh, I would never do that! :)

but on your software version when you power it off and power it back up 5 minutes later; that 5 minutes is buffered and rewindable (if thats a word). If that is still the case on the new version (I'll check when I get home) then, Why?
I have never done that for so brief a period, but I know there's been no buffering when turning on first thing in the AM or when coming home from work. If it'll be helpful to the cause, I'll try it and report back??

Well lets speculate why would TWC force a power off in the middle of the night?
a.) for easier update pushes
b.) they now spin down the Hard Drive to save hardware (debate about effectiveness withstanding)
c.) ?????
"Some of the software that has been installed requires restarting your computer. Click OK to restart now." :)

18 watts costs around $20 per year.
Are you making my point, or the other side's point? :)

hey pepar, i just took a look at your theater in your sig. what a difference between the first and last pictures. you did a great job.

hey pepar, i just took a look at your theater in your sig. what a difference between the first and last pictures. you did a great job.
Thank you. It's been a lot of fun from research to execution. And I'm back at it again researching bass traps. Gonna DIY them, too.

First off, the forums are full of whiners and complainers that bitch about everything. Depending on what day any of us can be miss cast in that role. The forums are also full of "bleeding edgers" looking to solve that bleeding edge, ever so rare problem that happens with a certain combination of AV equipment.
That being said don't miss interpret that everyone that has BOX A or BOX B are having problems. If your not having a problem; your probably watching TV instead of hangin' out in here. Most of us want to point out the flaws in BOX A or BOX B in hopes of making it better. (hopefully TWC lurks in the darkness of this forum)

Ok now I am a techie geek that put up an OTA just to do it. I have TWC right now for HD to compliment my $3000 TV + $??? surround sound setup. But for the love of all that is binary and has blinking lights,
"Why would anyone spend the money on a HD setup but starve it with only OTA?"

I know we should all read more but you pay big bucks for a TV and don't want to pay a monthly fee to really enjoy it. I don't get it.

I guess if I had basic cable from TWC and my own QAM tuner. I would only expect to get the same HD and Digital Offerings that are available OTA with a ATSC tuner.

TNT is not available over the air and neither is Discovery.

It looks like the TWC QAM good times are over..... but for all you QAM people out there I hope I am wrong.

-DonB2

"Why would anyone spend the money on a HD setup but starve it with only OTA?"

I never got that either. It's like having a satellite radio and/or mp3 player in your car and listening to AM/FM radio, makes no sense.

It looks like the TWC QAM good times are over..... but for all you QAM people out there I hope I am wrong.

-DonB2

Nah, the real good times were over 2 years ago or so, when they "scrambled" the PPV movies. The literally first digital channel I tuned to with my TV back in 2004 was showing HBO on demand. I really freaked out when I saw the picture pause, and then start rewinding. And I also miss the channel they used to have with a grainy B&W security camera view of their data center. Those were the good old days ;)

Drew

Probably because they don't like us QAM'ers getting them for the "basic" cable price, and they want to sell more overpriced packages, and rent more STBs, and charge more people outragous cablecard installation fees.

Anway, this will save me some money. Now that they've killed them, there is no reason at all for me to keep even a basic cable subscription when basketball season is over...

Drew


If that remains the case, count me in with you Drew. I too will drop my basic service and instead go back to the antenna. Without TNT and DISC, I have no reason to keep basic cable -vs- what I can get with an OTA antenna.

IF TWC made it possible with a cablecard to to pick your suite and pay a reasonable price for it I would do so. Without that - Forget it.

Hah, Hah...
Drew, I did the SAME thing. When I first jumped on the QAM bandwagon we watched 'The Santa Clause' from PPV on someone elses dime. The family and I had quite a surprise when the movie paused, backed up and then resumed. Still not sure if that was my QAM box picking up someones PPV movie and we then noticed when they did rewind or if TWC was playing around.

I also had some movies that I did NOT want.

Yeah, it was nice having DISC-HD, TNT was good for some movies too. If I could have TNT, DISC, ESPN, USA and perhaps the History channel along with the locals... That would be my package of choice and I would gladly pay for it.

No.


touche, dslate 69, touche indeed...

and to all others, i apologize...

Nah, the real good times were over 2 years ago or so, when they "scrambled" the PPV movies. The literally first digital channel I tuned to with my TV back in 2004 was showing HBO on demand. I really freaked out when I saw the picture pause, and then start rewinding. And I also miss the channel they used to have with a grainy B&W security camera view of their data center. Those were the good old days ;)

Drew
HeHe, I remember that. Although I never bothered watchin the PPV channels, I miss that B&W camera. I use to site and wait to see any signs of life (not too long though). :)

I have never done that for so brief a period, but I know there's been no buffering when turning on first thing in the AM or when coming home from work. If it'll be helpful to the cause, I'll try it and report back??
I turned my cable box off ~1:00am lastnight (it was on HLN). This morning just after 7:00am I turned my box on realized I missed their x:55am Entertainment report. I hit rewind and watched it. It had been buffering.

don't any of you get tired of the ongoing HDTV struggle??? i mean, i researched a TV for months (finally got an XBR960) because of all the hidden questions regarding the TV itself. Then, I learned I couldn't get HD over the air even though i lived in raleigh (4 different antenna attempts). Then, i bit the bullet and got basic cable (and breathed a sigh of relief when I actually got HD from it). However, just a week later, Discovery disappeared, and I only learned here that it had been moved (I never would have figured it out). The, apparently as of today, I no longer get discovery or tnt because for reasons unknown, the powers that be, whoever they are, have taken them off over-the-air access (which is funny, too, i suppose, since i don't understand for a second the connection between TW's basic cable HD offerings and those "over-the-air")...and I certainly don't know who is responsible for lifting tnt and discovery or if i can call someone to ask that they be restored....

judging by the posts in this thread, it seems HD is more an ongoing battle than anything else...and I've been lucky...over a period of two months i got a tv and reception and my tv seems to do it's thing automatically...you folks with 8300d's (a cable box model i presume?)and all sorts of other onging equipment problems seem to have more more to worry about -- and have to worry about it more often...my problems and disappointments seem quite small (and short) in comparison. yet still i feel exhausted and beat up by the whole process...

will there be a point where the two weeks i had with a great tv, perfect reception, and HD reception for cbs, abc, fox, nbc, unc, discovery, and tnt will be the norm over the period of a year or two or three? my content needs, certainly, are modest (basic cable with HD)...but will there ever be a time when i can rely on satisfying those modest needs without a daily or weekly or even monthly inquiry into forums like the AVS one here?
I've been doing this since I got my first HD-ready tv and HD stb in late 1999 (atually didn't get my own the HD stb untill Feb 2000 but got the hd cable box Jan 2000) and it hasn't slowed one bit. I have a lot of time on my hands (more so than others here) so it's more like a hobby to enjoy doing for me. If things settled I'm everything went smoothly I'd mostlikely be bored silly. ;)

Posted this in the 8300 thread but wanted to post here to incase any of you guys are having problems and dont read that thread.

Ok guys, I think I have found a simple fix for those of you getting the "your tv does not support HDCP" message after the upgrade.

For some reason, with the new upgrade, these boxes seem to be rebooting each night. Alot of people have noticed that because they would leave there boxes on and then get up the next morning and the box would be off.

This reboot each night seems to be screwing up the boxes HDMI "handshake" with your TV.

In order to fix this problem, or atleast this is how I was able to fix mine. When you get up in the morning or whenever you turn your TV and STB for the first time each day after the reboot each night, make sure to turn your STB on first while your TV is still off. Wait for you STB to display the little HDTV logo and 1080i or whatever you have your box set to. Once this is displayed on your STB then turn you TV on. Everything should work fine.

In my experiance with playing around with this thing after the upgrade, I have found that if I turn the TV on first, my STB wont display the 1080i or HDTV in the little display.

Hope this helps you guys having problems.

"Why would anyone spend the money on a HD setup but starve it with only OTA?"

I would respond this way.. I find very little (if anything) of value in terms of HD from cable... in fact I subscribe mostly for 5-6 ch in the Std pkg (please give us a la carte). If I had an OTA HD DVR I would seriously consider dropping cable altogether. ie. is it really worth $60/mo for crisp/clear/pimple-detail re-runs of Night Rider and Quantum Leap? From what I've seen of INHD, they would show ant-racing if they could film it in HD.

To put it another way... *IF* I had an OTA HD DVR, and could pay $1 per episode for shows that I watch on non-OTA channels, I would probably come out ahead with this usage model. Even at $2/show as iTunes is doing now. The only thing I will lose is the ability I have now to:

- sit down bored
- surf thru 200 channels to find something to watch
- cycle thru again
- and again
- turn the TV off in disgust, finding nothing but repeated material, 15 minutes later

Mike

I would respond this way.. I find very little (if anything) of value in terms of HD from cable... in fact I subscribe mostly for 5-6 ch in the Std pkg (please give us a la carte). If I had an OTA HD DVR I would seriously consider dropping cable altogether. ie. is it really worth $60/mo for crisp/clear/pimple-detail re-runs of Night Rider and Quantum Leap? From what I've seen of INHD, they would show ant-racing if they could film it in HD.

To put it another way... *IF* I had an OTA HD DVR, and could pay $1 per episode for shows that I watch on non-OTA channels, I would probably come out ahead with this usage model. Even at $2/show as iTunes is doing now. The only thing I will lose is the ability I have now to:

- sit down bored
- surf thru 200 channels to find something to watch
- cycle thru again
- and again
- turn the TV off in disgust, finding nothing but repeated material, 15 minutes later

Mike

I too don't want HD for Night Rider or Quantum Leap, but instead for original programing like Discovery HD, HDNet, InHD (I like the hodge-podge of original crap) I want real channels like ESPN2-HD, NFL-HD, HGTV-HD, NG-HD but TWC sucks and you live with it. (hopefully for not much longer; I just have to cut down some of my neighbors trees)

But what is this $1 an episode crap. I hear this all the time from 'a la carte' posters (for and against). I too want 'a la carte' but I think it will be more like $1 channel not a show. Take your monthly bill and divide it by how many channels you get. Most channels will be free so they can still sell ads (adapt to the new market place). If SPIKE-TV tries to charge more than they are worth they won't have enough subs to sell ads. So they will go free to keep there penetration.


At least that's my theory.

A la carte is a scheme that cablecos will resist until their last dying breath. And they will orchestrate a chorus of support from all directions, many expected, but many unexpected as well. The only hope of getting a la carte is for telephone to get cranked up and use that as a wedge to pull away cable subscribers. Maybe. But as with cable's competition from SAT, they will take the low road. It may not be pretty for a while, but it sure will be interesting. If Sony and Toshiba can get their collective acts together, they may be able to exploit the battle and successfully launch next gen optical discs.

Just my $.02.

A la carte is a scheme that cablecos will resist until their last dying breath. And they will orchestrate a chorus of support from all directions, many expected, but many unexpected as well. The only hope of getting a la carte is for telephone to get cranked up and use that as a wedge to pull away cable subscribers. Maybe. But as with cable's competition from SAT, they will take the low road. It may not be pretty for a while, but it sure will be interesting. If Sony and Toshiba can get their collective acts together, they may be able to exploit the battle and successfully launch next gen optical discs.

Just my $.02.


There's one thing that you can pretty much be assured of, an all "a la carte" world would kill off all but maybe 20 or so of the cable networks. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing either.

"Why would anyone spend the money on a HD setup but starve it with only OTA?"


Do you work for Tweeters? That is exactly what they said to me when I talked to them.

-DonB2

There's one thing that you can pretty much be assured of, an all "a la carte" world would kill off all but maybe 20 or so of the cable networks. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing either.
Ummm, yeah, we'd be back to 57 channels and nothing on. :rolleyes:

There's one thing that you can pretty much be assured of, an all "a la carte" world would kill off all but maybe 20 or so of the cable networks. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing either.

Sorry, but your wrong. Why would any channel go out of business, unless they tried to charge too much for there channel? Like I said there would be many that would want as much saturation in households as they have now for commercial revenue sake. The only way for them to accomplish that would be in the basic package of channels offered by SAT or Cable.
And before someone says there won't be a basic package because then it wouldn't be a la carte, let me stop you. There is still going to be a cost of doing business for SAT and Cable they aren't just going to give you a receiver so you can pay for one channel. There will be a "Connection Fee" (basic package) that will be included with your service. And yes then SAT or Cable could cut Discovery or whoever a check for them being in the "Free" package.
Others could possibly bundle themselves like a DVD combo set at Walmart; a bunch of individual so so channels that priced together seems like a deal.
Just because we get a la carte doesn't mean there won't be anymore bundles, there will be more "Music", "Sports", "Home and Garden", you name it.

folks
according to TWC, the "update" that has been going on has included a conscious effort on TWC's part to cut off TNT-HD and Discovery HD from thpse with basic cable service and a QAM tuner...how and why I can't claim to know.
isn't there a TWC techie type on this forum (i seem to remember a guy who would post but i can't seem to find his past postings). if so, does he know what;s going on -- namely, whether the Discovery-HD and TNT-HD eliminations are permanent or temporary?
in addition, after doing an autoprogram on my sony xbr960, it no longer picks up the digital versions of WB (78.12), WGN (112.10), or UPN (89.9). anybody have a guess as to why? NOTE: until last night, those digital channels would be found by autoprogramming. it's no big deal, i suppose, but now, instead of surfing up to them on up/down, i must punch in the numbers...they then come in, and in 480p, but they are not in my up/down remote program sequence.
finally, tonight on basic cable, i'm getting the HDTV network broadcasts (e.g., 5.1, 50.2, etc.), with bars on the left and right sides, even though i'm on full screen mode. my tv menu says they are coming in in 720p and/or 1080i, but they no longer fill the entire screen in "full screen" mode, which they did before. anybody know why?
thanks

any reason why Will and Grace was not in its 16:9 ratio tonight? only 4:3. is this a local or national issue.

The grey bars on WLFL have always been there. The zooming is new within the last view weeks. Their HD has that "watching though a vaseline coated screen" look that WNCN had before they upgraded their encoder. The SD is awful. WRDC does not, of course, do HD.
Both WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are up to full power as of this week.
I'm not sure what the "watching through a vaseline coated screen" is you refer to; try calling WB and ask them... When you see full HD on WLFL we are simply passing through exactly what WB gives us. It looks fine at my house in it's native 1080i format, and is comparable in picture quality to other 1080i sources I see. The only thing that changes through our system is the bitrate, which I have set to around 18Mbps for 22.1 versus the 20 some odd Mbps we get from the satellite. I recently noticed the zoom+sidebars. I think something got corrupt in the upconverter and recalled an incorrect preset. I'll put it back to 4:3 with 50% sidebars when I get the chance. This way, if one wants to stretch it, the gray bars will go away, and if one doesn't want to stretch it, screen burn-in will be reduced. I've been paying more attention to getting the transmitters up to full power rather than what the SD upconversion looks like.

I'll put it back to 4:3 with 50% sidebars when I get the chance.

Wow! That's terrific! I'm so glad I can get both WB22 and UPN28 down here in Greenville finally. I can't wait to see The Tube too! I'm glad your station group picked it up. :D

Thanks to the new software, I too was getting a white-snow screen when ever I cycled through the inputs on my TV and came back to my 8300HD, hooked up via HDMI. Through much experimentation I discovered the following:

- I had the 8300HD passing through all signals: 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. When I turned off 480i, the problem goes away. So I now have the 8300HD putting out only 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

- 480i is now being sent out as 16:9 480i to my TV. I am pretty sure it used to be 480i, 4:3.

- I have a DVD recorder hooked up to the 8300HD via S-video. I use to set the 8300HD to put out 4:3 as stretch, otherwise if I used 4:3 sidebar, the DVD recorder would see the side bars in its input. I can now put out 4:3 with sidebar, and the DVD recorder does not see the side bars.

Both WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are up to full power as of this week.
I'm not sure what the "watching through a vaseline coated screen" is you refer to; try calling WB and ask them... When you see full HD on WLFL we are simply passing through exactly what WB gives us. It looks fine at my house in it's native 1080i format, and is comparable in picture quality to other 1080i sources I see. The only thing that changes through our system is the bitrate, which I have set to around 18Mbps for 22.1 versus the 20 some odd Mbps we get from the satellite. I recently noticed the zoom+sidebars. I think something got corrupt in the upconverter and recalled an incorrect preset. I'll put it back to 4:3 with 50% sidebars when I get the chance. This way, if one wants to stretch it, the gray bars will go away, and if one doesn't want to stretch it, screen burn-in will be reduced. I've been paying more attention to getting the transmitters up to full power rather than what the SD upconversion looks like.

Forgive me, I am not a broadcast engineer. But I do know there's a couple of ways to accomplish noise reduction in a video chain, the first being simple real time filtering of the high frequency response which simply softens the image.

The second involves buffering and frame comparison and averaging, and does not soften as much, but slightly blurs motion, which tends to corrupt black levels and cause that "gauzy" or "vaseline" effect. If it's too aggressive, it ruins the HD experience.

This is more noticeable on WLFL's SD content than on HD, but trust me, having seen WB HD in other markets, it's on a par with NBC and ABC and FOX. My eye tells me that is not the case here. CBS of course is a cut above the pack in their HD quality.

But thanks for your response. Guessing from your screen name, you just do contract work for the station. Anybody who follows this string knows my feelings towards Sinclair, so I'll shut up.

[QUOTE=kd4pbs]
I recently noticed the zoom+sidebars. I think something got corrupt in the upconverter and recalled an incorrect preset. I'll put it back to 4:3 with 50% sidebars when I get the chance.[QUOTE]

You gotta feel sorry for this guy. He is either regional engineer and has 2 dozen stations to attend to from camera to tower lights, or he is not only the station engineer, but the operations manager at a cluster, and is reponsible for everything from sharpening pencils to unclogging toilets. All for two thirds the going pay scale.

[QUOTE=kd4pbs]
I recently noticed the zoom+sidebars. I think something got corrupt in the upconverter and recalled an incorrect preset. I'll put it back to 4:3 with 50% sidebars when I get the chance.[QUOTE]

You gotta feel sorry for this guy. He is either regional engineer and has 2 dozen stations to attend to from camera to tower lights, or he is not only the station engineer, but the operations manager at a cluster, and is reponsible for everything from sharpening pencils to unclogging toilets. All for two thirds the going pay scale.
Ohhh, you make it sound sooo glamorous! He's livin' a dream. :D

For "a la carte" on the cable scene, I agree, it would "make sense" for it to be $1/ch/month (on avg). For most of us that would mean saving at least $30 :)

But if I were to take my cable bill, and divide it by the # of shows/episodes I actually watch (maybe a total of 10-12/week), then I could almost stil lcome out ahead by paying $1/episode. this excludes the ability to "surf", but when I think of how much cable costs vs. how little I watch and realize how much that cable bill totals over a year...

So for that $700 I pay to TWC every year, I could buy a Sony OTA HD DVR, and pay the iTune download prices for "Daily Show", and the few other non-broadcast-network shows that I watch.

Don't get me wrong, I would prefer the by-channel a-la-carte method (enables me to surf the channels I like at any time), but even the per-episode method would still be better for me.

Mike

All "a la carte" will boil down to is one third the programming for two thirds the price.

folks
according to TWC, the "update" that has been going on has included a conscious effort on TWC's part to cut off TNT-HD and Discovery HD from thpse with basic cable service and a QAM tuner....
what;s going on -- namely, whether the Discovery-HD and TNT-HD eliminations are permanent or temporary?


What possible scenario could you surmise that they would consciously cut off the 2 channels on a temporary basis?
Yes, it's permanent.

Ok I woke up this morning and my 8000 was off. I turned it on, and there was an hour already buffered. I will just set the "auto on" feature for 5am to get things back to the way it was. My 8300 gets powered down with my macro'd power button for all my equip, so I don't notice it on that one.

For "a la carte" on the cable scene, I agree, it would "make sense" for it to be $1/ch/month (on avg). For most of us that would mean saving at least $30 :)
Which is exactly why cable is against it. They have a working - for them - paradigm now. And they'd need to develop an entirely new one with a la carte that NETS THEM THE SAME REVENUE with the potential FOR MORE.

For "a la carte" on the cable scene, I agree, it would "make sense" for it to be $1/ch/month (on avg). For most of us that would mean saving at least $30 :)

But if I were to take my cable bill, and divide it by the # of shows/episodes I actually watch (maybe a total of 10-12/week), then I could almost stil lcome out ahead by paying $1/episode. this excludes the ability to "surf", but when I think of how much cable costs vs. how little I watch and realize how much that cable bill totals over a year...

So for that $700 I pay to TWC every year, I could buy a Sony OTA HD DVR, and pay the iTune download prices for "Daily Show", and the few other non-broadcast-network shows that I watch.

Don't get me wrong, I would prefer the by-channel a-la-carte method (enables me to surf the channels I like at any time), but even the per-episode method would still be better for me.

Mike

When people talk "a la carte" it has nothing to do with downloading episodes via computer or VOD. So if someone wants to download the episode of Lost they missed last night great let them buy the whole season. Let them download the episode before it airs (whold new market). But lets not confuse the term "a la carte" and what congress is talking about doing about giving people more of a choice.

When people talk "a la carte" it has nothing to do with downloading episodes via computer or VOD. So if someone wants to download the episode of Lost they missed last night great let them buy the whole season. Let them download the episode before it airs (whold new market). But lets not confuse the term "a la carte" and what congress is talking about doing about giving people more of a choice.
Well, downloadable episodes, VOD and a la carte (channel subscriptions) are all in a way giving us more choice, but they are all different. No act of congress is needed for the first two because it is in the best interests of cable and content providers and gives them an addition revenue stream. Considering it gives us more choice/flexibility, it is win-win. A la carte, allowing cable customers to receive and pay for ONLY those channels that they want, is a mare of a different hue. That will/would truly be disruptive for cable. They will need to be dragged kicking and screaming down that road.

Which is exactly why cable is against it. They have a working - for them - paradigm now. And they'd need to develop an entirely new one with a la carte that NETS THEM THE SAME REVENUE with the potential FOR MORE.

Yea, that's what is so frustrating when this topic comes up, some try to justify the devine right of the existing revenue stream.
But they don't calculate in the brand new revenue stream they just created with selling episodes for download or the new one around the corner of episodes on VOD. This is a completely new revenue stream they are receiving and I didn't see a discount on my cable bill.

Yea, that's what is so frustrating when this topic comes up, some try to justify the devine right of the existing revenue stream.
But they don't calculate in the brand new revenue stream they just created with selling episodes for download or the new one around the corner of episodes on VOD. This is a completely new revenue stream they are receiving and I didn't see a discount on my cable bill.
Nor did you see an increase unless you partook. VOD and episodic downloads are different revenue streams. And they are both optional for us. I've never and probably will never use either one. The injustice, from our subscriber perspective, of existing tiered subscriptions is that we have NO choice within each tier. And who makes them up anyway? There seems to be no discernable logic, rhyme or reason. I think, in the end, it will be the Evangelicals receiving what they consider to be pornography that will drive a la carte. That may be a controversial statement for me to post - and let me tactfully lapse into stereotypes here - on a SC-centric forum thread, but I make no judgements. I only put it forth as a social force to be considered.

BOTTOM LINE ON CABLE PRICING:

When 85% of the population is WILLING to pay in excess of $45/month for basic cable/satellite service, the price is not too high.

Cable is not a utility. It is an subscription home entertainment luxury option. Let the free marketplace prevail. Don't legislate the industry out of business.

I for one am glad that the industry is making enough profit to reinvest in infrastructure and introduce innovations. A La Carte would cripple the industry.

BOTTOM LINE ON CABLE PRICING:

When 85% of the population is WILLING to pay in excess of $45/month for basic cable/satellite service, the price is not too high.

Cable is not a utility. It is an subscription home entertainment luxury option. Let the free marketplace prevail. Don't legislate the industry out of business.

I for one am glad that the industry is making enough profit to reinvest in infrastructure and introduce innovations. A La Carte would cripple the industry.
But still, paying for channels that one NEVER watches seems fundamentally unfair. And paying for HUNDREDS of channels that one never watches is an outrage. There's gotta be some middle ground.

Interesting fun factoid:

My first cable bill in 1970 was $6/month for 10 channels. That's 60 cents each. The 10 channels consisted of 3 NBC's, 2 CBS's, 1 ABC, 2 Independents, 1 PBS, and a Community Bulletin Board.

Thirty six years later, basic non-digital cable costs $45/month for 75 channels. That's STILL 60 cents each.

BOTTOM LINE ON CABLE PRICING:

When 85% of the population is WILLING to pay in excess of $45/month for basic cable/satellite service, the price is not too high.

Cable is not a utility. It is an subscription home entertainment luxury option. Let the free marketplace prevail. Don't legislate the industry out of business.

I for one am glad that the industry is making enough profit to reinvest in infrastructure and introduce innovations. A La Carte would cripple the industry.
And one other thing; I disagree on your statement that cable "is an subscription home entertainment luxury option." An arguement could be made that it is an option, but it is certainly not - at least in its basic form - a luxury option. These days, it is a necessity. Along with gossipy desperate housewives, we learn about health and safety related issues, school and road closings, etc.

Just my $.02.

other thread: A Cable Nightmare - "a la carte" is gaining steam. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=610066)

But still, paying for channels that one NEVER watches seems fundamentally unfair. And paying for HUNDREDS of channels that one never watches is an outrage. There's gotta be some middle ground.

How much of the Sunday paper do you actually read??? Do you think your newspaper ought to offer a Sunday paper "Lite". And how would Home Depot and Circuit City feel about that???

You either take the Sunday paper or you don't. What you choose to read is up to you. You can't just pay for the sections you read. Your local paper would go out of business just trying to organize delivery of "A La Carte" editions.

How much of the Sunday paper do you actually read??? Do you think your newspaper ought to offer a Sunday paper "Lite". And how would Home Depot and Circuit City feel about that???

You either take the Sunday paper or you don't. What you choose to read is up to you. You can't just pay for the sections you read. Your local paper would go out of business just trying to organize delivery of "A La Carte" editions.
And that is precisely why there is contraction in the print news industry; there is an alternative - the internet - that more and more people are availing themselves of the flexibility and selectiveness of online news. Who's left? Oldsters and other people who can't afford internet access, or are technophobes. Not a very attractive demographic group. Ad revenues contract and then so does the industry. Any industry that sticks entirely with the status quo is eventually displaced/replaced. If you're such a cable proponent, you should be concerned about the long-term health, and that may involve them coming to terms with a la carte.

Just my $.02.

BTW, I subscribe to NO newpapers.

You can't just pay for the sections you read.
You can if you buy it second-hand. ;)

Interesting fun factoid:

My first cable bill in 1970 was $6/month for 10 channels. That's 60 cents each. The 10 channels consisted of 3 NBC's, 2 CBS's, 1 ABC, 2 Independents, 1 PBS, and a Community Bulletin Board.

Thirty six years later, basic non-digital cable costs $45/month for 75 channels. That's STILL 60 cents each.
What percentage of the original 10 channels did you watch? What percentage of the current 75 channels do you watch.

I like the way everybody always helps me make my case. :D

Just my $.02. :)

You can if you buy it second-hand. ;)
Heck yes, you might as well. It's no longer "news" anyway when it lands on your doorstep. :)

And one other thing; I disagree on your statement that cable "is an subscription home entertainment luxury option." An arguement could be made that it is an option, but it is certainly not - at least in its basic form - a luxury option. These days, it is a necessity. Along with gossipy desperate housewives, we learn about health and safety related issues, school and road closings, etc.

Just my $.02.

You're talking about "local" programming either available off-air for free, or on a "lifeline" basic service that all cable operators offer, but don't really like to talk about which usually costs around $12/month.

It is not a necessity, a utility, or an entitlement.

I flip thru 60%+ of the sections of the Sunday paper.... if I watched t% of my cable channels I'd have no complaint. As it is now, with the new firmware, >80% of my channels went on the skip list.

As for market forces... well its just kinda funny how often one hears the phrase "market forces", when the market only has few/one force(s).. ie. a monopoly. If we were so happy with few choices, our long distance would still cost $0.25/minute as it did when Ma Bell was the monopoly. With little/no local alternatives, what consumers are willing to pay is more a statement of what the monopoly is able to charge. Notice how cheap long distance is now that we have actual choice. I'm not saying that is good for the businesses, but last I checked, I'm a consumer, and my long distance works just fine for much much less $$ than it once did.

TWC is essentially an ILEC, and very much behaves as one. We need some CLECs (even if they are the ILECs from the phone world)

Mike

What percentage of the original 10 channels did you watch? What percentage of the current 75 channels do you watch.

I like the way everybody always helps me make my case. :D

Just my $.02. :)

Out of the 75 channels, I doubt I regularly watch more than a dozen or so. It's still a good value as far as I'm concerned. $45/month is a $1.50/day. I spend that much on soft drinks.

I flip thru 60%+ of the sections of the Sunday paper.... if I watched t% of my cable channels I'd have no complaint. As it is now, with the new firmware, >80% of my channels went on the skip list.

As for market forces... well its just kinda funny how often one hears the phrase "market forces", when the market only has few/one force(s).. ie. a monopoly. If we were so happy with few choices, our long distance would still cost $0.25/minute as it did when Ma Bell was the monopoly. With little/no local alternatives, what consumers are willing to pay is more a statement of what the monopoly is able to charge. Notice how cheap long distance is now that we have actual choice. I'm not saying that is good for the businesses, but last I checked, I'm a consumer, and my long distance works just fine for much much less $$ than it once did.

TWC is essentially an ILEC, and very much behaves as one. We need some CLECs (even if they are the ILECs from the phone world)

Mike

Let's see. Local cable operator - $45, Dish Network - $45, DirecTV - $45, and in some cases, overbuild video provider - $45. Monopoly???? I don't think so. Almost everyone has at least 3 choices for video providers, more and more have 4. The reason why NONE of these providers have resorted to A La Carte is that the marketplace simply does not require it.

Another argument:

I spend $39.95/month for all the phone time I use, or choose not to use. I spend $39.95/month for all the high-speed internet time I use or choose not to use. I spend $45/month on all the TV I use or choose not to use.

How about METERED internet usage, or PAY AS YOU GO phone. You'd have a violent revolution!!!!!!

posg: "uncle" :)

Hi,

The night before last some firmware upgrades were done to TWC digital boxes in the area. I have the Pace 550 HD box, which has a passthrough setting for its output resolution. I can no longer get to the Pace's settings menu, and the box has been locked into outputting 1080i. There is now a new area in the passport menu to adjust the output resolution, but it will not allow me to select multiple resolutions or change from 1080i. Is anyone having a similar problem and if so how did you resolve it? I have a techinician coming out today, but I am not too optimistic. When I called TWC, the answer was, "if you have an HDTV, you do not want anything besides 1080i". Thanks.

posg: "uncle" :)

Jeez, I wish my wife gave in so easy ;) ;) ;)

Jeez, I wish my wife gave in so easy ;) ;) ;)
Oh I didn't give up, and I certainly didn't change my miind. I only stopped taking up bandwidth with the issue. :)

Hi,

The night before last some firmware upgrades were done to TWC digital boxes in the area. I have the Pace 550 HD box, which has a passthrough setting for its output resolution. I can no longer get to the Pace's settings menu, and the box has been locked into outputting 1080i. There is now a new area in the passport menu to adjust the output resolution, but it will not allow me to select multiple resolutions or change from 1080i. Is anyone having a similar problem and if so how did you resolve it? I have a techinician coming out today, but I am not too optimistic. When I called TWC, the answer was, "if you have an HDTV, you do not want anything besides 1080i". Thanks.

I hung on to the Pace 550 HD because I was concerned that the SA8300HD would not support "pass-through" and could not get an answer from TWC. Well, it does, and other than not being able to shut off the gray side bars, everything about the 8300 is as good as, or better than, the Pace. Trade......

Another argument:

I spend $39.95/month for all the phone time I use, or choose not to use. I spend $39.95/month for all the high-speed internet time I use or choose not to use. I spend $45/month on all the TV I use or choose not to use.

How about METERED internet usage, or PAY AS YOU GO phone. You'd have a violent revolution!!!!!!


POSG
I am not jumping into this argument, rather I have a few questions.

You said cable - appx $45/month. Do you really get all you want for $45?
You don't have or get the digital channels?

As I make it out, in order to get basic Standard Cable + TNT-HD and DISC-HD I would have to pay roughly:
Digital package 1000 - $61.75/month
Digital Box for my 1 TV without a CableCard slot $7.50/month
Couple remots $0.75/Month
Cablecard $1.75
Appx. Total - 75-80 bucks per month after fees and taxes.

And, unless the digital tier of choice for the Digipic 1000 can be the HD-Suite, I STILL don't have ESPN-HD.

Soooo - I guess my question really boils down to this:

Do you get by with just the standard service? So, since the change you can only get the locals in HD like the QAM crowd? You lost DISC-HD and TNT-HD did you not?

How much of the Sunday paper do you actually read??? Do you think your newspaper ought to offer a Sunday paper "Lite". And how would Home Depot and Circuit City feel about that???

You either take the Sunday paper or you don't. What you choose to read is up to you. You can't just pay for the sections you read. Your local paper would go out of business just trying to organize delivery of "A La Carte" editions.

It's funny you bring up newspaper, because I can subscribe to any newspaper in the country but not any TV channel. Why? Wouldn't it cut into the revenue of my local newspaper the same as my local TV station. The hypocrisy of the industry is astounding. They live by one rule and it's not "keep the customers happy" but instead "keep profit margins up".

Oh I didn't give up, and I certainly didn't change my miind. I only stopped taking up bandwidth with the issue.

agreed. Not worth derailing this thread for an argument already with its own (the referenced ALC thread). posg and I will contend the other is wrong til we are blue in the face.

So I will accept the label of "whiner" as long as he accepts the label of "apologist" :) :) (with regard to TWC and HD), and we can move on :)

Mike

POSG
I am not jumping into this argument, rather I have a few questions.

You said cable - appx $45/month. Do you really get all you want for $45?
You don't have or get the digital channels?

As I make it out, in order to get basic Standard Cable + TNT-HD and DISC-HD I would have to pay roughly:
Digital package 1000 - $61.75/month
Digital Box for my 1 TV without a CableCard slot $7.50/month
Couple remots $0.75/Month
Cablecard $1.75
Appx. Total - 75-80 bucks per month after fees and taxes.

And, unless the digital tier of choice for the Digipic 1000 can be the HD-Suite, I STILL don't have ESPN-HD.

Soooo - I guess my question really boils down to this:

Do you get by with just the standard service? So, since the change you can only get the locals in HD like the QAM crowd? You lost DISC-HD and TNT-HD did you not?

Actually, I have the digital tier, the HD tier, HBO, and a DVR. I only use the $45 basic argumentatively since THOSE are the channels which would be affected by A La Carte pricing. My bill is of course higher.

Both WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are up to full power as of this week.
I'm not sure what the "watching through a vaseline coated screen" is you refer to; try calling WB and ask them... When you see full HD on WLFL we are simply passing through exactly what WB gives us. It looks fine at my house in it's native 1080i format, and is comparable in picture quality to other 1080i sources I see. The only thing that changes through our system is the bitrate, which I have set to around 18Mbps for 22.1 versus the 20 some odd Mbps we get from the satellite. I recently noticed the zoom+sidebars. I think something got corrupt in the upconverter and recalled an incorrect preset. I'll put it back to 4:3 with 50% sidebars when I get the chance. This way, if one wants to stretch it, the gray bars will go away, and if one doesn't want to stretch it, screen burn-in will be reduced. I've been paying more attention to getting the transmitters up to full power rather than what the SD upconversion looks like.
Thx for the info. I'm not sure but I got a feeling WLFL and WRDC's towers are farther from me than WRAL, WRAZ, WTVD and WNCN's towers are. I have a harder time picking up WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT's signal so I've not seen primetime HD feed yet, only the local programming upconvert early in the morn or late ate night. Tropospheric ducting has sucked the past two weeks. Even WNCN has been hard to pick up. It's nice to see someone using up to 18Mbps on the HD feed (I guess it's possible though to no multicasting). :)

agreed. Not worth derailing this thread for an argument already with its own (the referenced ALC thread). posg and I will contend the other is wrong til we are blue in the face.

So I will accept the label of "whiner" as long as he accepts the label of "apologist" :) :) (with regard to TWC and HD), and we can move on :)

Mike

Label accepted !!! ;) ;) ;)

Thx for the info. I'm not sure but I got a feeling WLFL and WRDC's towers are farther from me than WRAL, WRAZ, WTVD and WNCN's towers are. I have a harder time picking up WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT's signal so I've not seen primetime HD feed yet, only the local programming upconvert early in the morn or late ate night. Tropospheric ducting has sucked the past two weeks. Even WNCN has been hard to pick up. It's nice to see someone using up to 18Mbps on the HD feed (I guess it's possible though to no multicasting). :)

Actually, the towers are right next to each other. Tropo was better this morning than it has been lately. Should continue to improve as the daytime temperatures get warmer.

in addition, after doing an autoprogram on my sony xbr960, it no longer picks up the digital versions of WB (78.12), WGN (112.10), or UPN (89.9). anybody have a guess as to why? NOTE: until last night, those digital channels would be found by autoprogramming. it's no big deal, i suppose, but now, instead of surfing up to them on up/down, i must punch in the numbers...they then come in, and in 480p, but they are not in my up/down remote program sequence.
For some reason yesterday TWC had WB (78.12), WGN (112.10), or UPN (89.9) remaping to the below virtual channels:

WLFL WB22 was on 12.1
WRDC UPN28 was on 10.1
WGN was on 21.1

Today the remapping is gone and a rescan should fing them back on WB (78.12), WGN (112.10), or UPN (89.9).

Let's see. Local cable operator - $45, Dish Network - $45, DirecTV - $45, and in some cases, overbuild video provider - $45. Monopoly???? I don't think so. Almost everyone has at least 3 choices for video providers, more and more have 4. The reason why NONE of these providers have resorted to A La Carte is that the marketplace simply does not require it.

One last point, the reason why there is such a push for it now is because DISH and others are wanting stop the providers from demanding certain channels be included in the basic package. Evidently DISH for one thinks they can still make money in an a la carte world.

thamlet:

I'm having a similar problem w/ my 8300. Post-upgrade, it's locked at 1080i and 480p. Previously, I only allowed it to ouput 720p. I've tried a reboot w/ no success.

Actually, the towers are right next to each other. Tropo was better this morning than it has been lately. Should continue to improve as the daytime temperatures get warmer.
Thx for the info. I noticed tropo was a little better yesterday. I usually check This Page (http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html) for Tropo activity. Next Tuesday is looking real good. :) I really wanted to see Smallville and Supernatural in HD on WLFL lastnight but I couldn't pick them up untill around 10:30 lastnight. :(

One last point, the reason why there is such a push for it now is because DISH and others are wanting stop the providers from demanding certain channels be included in the basic package. Evidently DISH for one thinks they can still make money in an a la carte world.

Program suppliers and program resellers have different agendas. Program suppliers are not anxious to loose distribution. DISH would pay penalty rates if it downgrades channels to A La Carte, meaning less value to the consumer.

Thx for the info. I noticed tropo was a little better yesterday. I usually check This Page (http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html) for Tropo activity. Next Tuesday is looking real good. :) I really wanted to see Smallville and Supernatural in HD on WLFL lastnight but I couldn't pick them up untill around 10:30 lastnight. :(

This morning I was getting most of the Norfolk, VA DT channels (140 miles) here in Raleigh. For what ever reason, they pop in a lot more frequently than Greensboro (70 miles). I ALWAYS get WITN-DT and WNCT-DT at 77 miles, but have only picked up WCTI-DT (90 miles) a couple of times during extreme tropo conditions, re: lower power, directional transmitter.

Program suppliers and program resellers have different agendas. Program suppliers are not anxious to loose distribution. DISH would pay penalty rates if it downgrades channels to A La Carte, meaning less value to the consumer.

This brings up something that I've been wondering about. Who pays what for channels to be on standard cable/sat? Does the cable/sat provider pay the channel? Or does the channel pay the cable/sat provider to carry its channel? Or is it a mix, where channels that are in more demand (ESPN) get paid, and channels that not many people care about (the outdoor network) pay cable/sat providers to carry them so they have a wider potential viewership for their ads?

Drew

This brings up something that I've been wondering about. Who pays what for channels to be on standard cable/sat? Does the cable/sat provider pay the channel? Or does the channel pay the cable/sat provider to carry its channel? Or is it a mix, where channels that are in more demand (ESPN) get paid, and channels that not many people care about (the outdoor network) pay cable/sat providers to carry them so they have a wider potential viewership for their ads?

Drew

For the most part, the cable company/satellite provider pays the program supplier. The rate per subscriber is much higher if the channel is not on a universal tier. Some channels, ESPN for example, have several sibling channels which are negociating pawns.

The bottom line is this. If ESPN charges the cable operator $x.xx per month for a suite of channels on universal basic, they might charge double if the channels reach less than two thirds of the subscibers.

As long as the ball is in the programmers court (which it is), the cable operator and the consumer are in a no win situation. The programmer's gonna get his money somehow.

That's why A La Carte will cost more for less.

I hung on to the Pace 550 HD because I was concerned that the SA8300HD would not support "pass-through" and could not get an answer from TWC. Well, it does, and other than not being able to shut off the gray side bars, everything about the 8300 is as good as, or better than, the Pace. Trade......

Thanks for the info. I asked them to tell the tech to bring along an 8300 DVR in case he could not get the Pace working properly again. If you don't mind, when you have a chance, will you verify that the passthrough mode still works after the changes the other night? Erik is reporting a similar change to his 8300. I am really worried TWC has made a stupid decision based on their poor understanding of AVS basics.

Here's a ficticious scenerio:

All Sports Network (ASN) charges $3.50/per subscriber per month if the cable operator puts it on basic service. ASN will discount it to $3.00 if the cable operator adds ASN2, and $2.50 if he also adds ASN Jr and ASN News.

If the cable operator puts ASN on a sports tier, the rate per month goes up to $6.50. Each of the additional sibling channels cost $.25 MORE per month rather than activating a discount.

ASN also owns Nobody Cares TV which it will give the cable operator for free to bulk up a digital tier, if he carries ASN on basic.

That's why A La Carte won't work.

As long as the ball is in the programmers court (which it is), the cable operator and the consumer are in a no win situation. The programmer's gonna get his money somehow.

That's why A La Carte will cost more for less.

Great information, posg. Thank you.

But I disagree with your conclusion. I think A La Carte would be a great way to get the ball into the consumer's court. Right now, we either pay for, or don't pay for a group of channels, and the differences in costs are hidden. With an A La Carte model where the true costs per channel are known to the consumer, the consumer could make informed choices about how to spend his entertainment budget. Eg, it would be harder for the programmers to hold the cable company hostage, and force them to carry less popular channels.

This whole industry seems ripe for a RICO investigation. :)

Drew

Thanks for the info. I asked them to tell the tech to bring along an 8300 DVR in case he could not get the Pace working properly again. If you don't mind, when you have a chance, will you verify that the passthrough mode still works after the changes the other night? Erik is reporting a similar change to his 8300. I am really worried TWC has made a stupid decision based on their poor understanding of AVS basics.

Yes, I've already scoured all the menu revisions, and "pass through" still works for all four resolutions.

Great information, posg. Thank you.

But I disagree with your conclusion. I think A La Carte would be a great way to get the ball into the consumer's court. Right now, we either pay for, or don't pay for a group of channels, and the differences in costs are hidden. With an A La Carte model where the true costs per channel are known to the consumer, the consumer could make informed choices about how to spend his entertainment budget. Eg, it would be harder for the programmers to hold the cable company hostage, and force them to carry less popular channels.

This whole industry seems ripe for a RICO investigation. :)

Drew

Back up to the post above your post. I added more before you added this. It's all a big game, and when you add co-ownership of broadcast stations and cable networks, it really get messy.

Great information, posg. Thank you.

But I disagree with your conclusion. I think A La Carte would be a great way to get the ball into the consumer's court. Right now, we either pay for, or don't pay for a group of channels, and the differences in costs are hidden. With an A La Carte model where the true costs per channel are known to the consumer, the consumer could make informed choices about how to spend his entertainment budget. Eg, it would be harder for the programmers to hold the cable company hostage, and force them to carry less popular channels.

This whole industry seems ripe for a RICO investigation. :)

Drew
drewwho: :cool:

posg: :p

Hey, that didn't take up much bandwidth at all! :)

drewwho: :cool:

posg: :p

Hey, that didn't take up much bandwidth at all! :)

:confused: :confused: :confused: Just getting my $39.95 worth.

Since the upgrade, my Pace 550 box now does gray (vs black) side bars, and has lost the option to passthru output resolution.

After a while with twc on the phone, the suggestion is to swap for a SA3250 box, which is supposed to have black sidebars.

Can anyone confirm black bars on the 3250 since the upgrade? IIRC, I swapped a 3250 for Pace a while back because the 3250 had gray then. :confused:

thanks.

Since the upgrade, my Pace 550 box now does gray (vs black) side bars, and has lost the option to passthru output resolution.

After a while with twc on the phone, the suggestion is to swap for a SA3250 box, which is supposed to have black sidebars.

Can anyone confirm black bars on the 3250 since the upgrade? IIRC, I swapped a 3250 for Pace a while back because the 3250 had gray then. :confused:

thanks.

I rebooted the Pace 550 and it reverted to the black sidebars. The other change I made before I booted was to change the aspect ratio in the settings menu from "4:3, 16:9 widescreen"" to "16:9 widescreen, 4:3 pillar boxed". Seems besides assuming the only res is 1080i, they also assumed HDTVs were 4:3 AR.

:confused: :confused: :confused: Just getting my $39.95 worth.
I'mmeteredsoIhavetokeepitshort. :)

Yes, I've already scoured all the menu revisions, and "pass through" still works for all four resolutions.

Are you using the DVI out?

Are you using the DVI out?

Nope, component. That could be your issue. I'd try component and see what you get.

Nope, component. That could be your issue. I'd try component and see what you get.
Well, I am not going to use any analog in the path, but it appears from looking at other 8300HD threads that passthrough is supposed to work on the digital out also. The tech called before he came and when he heard the problem he said he couldn't do anything about it. He also did not understand why I thought I would get a better picture wihtout the stb processing. I will never understand how you can operate in an industry and hire poeple that are ignorant of that industry. I'm going to have the 8300HD DVR "installed" on Monday and hold my breath. If it is also locked to one output I'm cancelling my service.

I rebooted the Pace 550 and it reverted to the black sidebars. The other change I made before I booted was to change the aspect ratio in the settings menu from "4:3, 16:9 widescreen"" to "16:9 widescreen, 4:3 pillar boxed". Seems besides assuming the only res is 1080i, they also assumed HDTVs were 4:3 AR.

Thanks! That did the trick. We had needed to reboot (a time or two) right after the upgrade, but no telling what the aspect ratio was set to at the time.

And v/v passthru - that setting may be gone, but now you can select multiple output resolutions so that's good too.

Happy camper again.

edit: unhappy camper again - had gray bars again today (re-boot went to black again), multiple output resolutions did not stick - 1080i only

Well, I am not going to use any analog in the path, but it appears from looking at other 8300HD threads that passthrough is supposed to work on the digital out also. The tech called before he came and when he heard the problem he said he couldn't do anything about it. He also did not understand why I thought I would get a better picture wihtout the stb processing. I will never understand how you can operate in an industry and hire poeple that are ignorant of that industry. I'm going to have the 8300HD DVR "installed" on Monday and hold my breath. If it is also locked to one output I'm cancelling my service.

You should be happy with the 8300 if you can live with gray bars. Quite frankly, I thought I would hate them, but now they don't bother me. Of course, if you use stretch-o-vision, it won't matter. You'll wonder how you ever lived without a DVR.

As far as help goes, you just have to swallow the bitter pill that most people that work in an industry are not "enthusiasts" and will only learn what they need to know.

most people that work in an industry are not "enthusiasts" and will only learm what they need to know.
truer words have never been spoken.

also keep in mind that the people answering the phones are pretty much at the bottom of the food chain. they make nothing in terms of money and this is just a job to pay there rent type of deal. most of them couldnt tell you the difference between component and composite cables.. im sure if we could get ahold of a technical engineer for Time Warner, they would know alot more.

Thanks! That did the trick. We had needed to reboot (a time or two) right after the upgrade, but no telling what the aspect ratio was set to at the time.

And v/v passthru - that setting may be gone, but now you can select multiple output resolutions so that's good too.

Happy camper again.

Yes, that is the new area of the menu that does not work on my box. No matter what output resolution or combination of resolutions I select, when I try to "accept" them, it just defaults back to 1080i. I fear that TWC may have disabled all outputs over the DVI except 1080i. Are you using the DVI out from the Pace, and have you successfully selected multiple output resolutions?

I will try rebooting once more and also try component out as posg suggested to see if this is the case.

Thanks for all of the help guys.

Yes, that is the new area of the menu that does not work on my box. No matter what output resolution or combination of resolutions I select, when I try to "accept" them, it just defaults back to 1080i. I fear that TWC may have disabled all outputs over the DVI except 1080i. Are you using the DVI out from the Pace, and have you successfully selected multiple output resolutions?

I will try rebooting once more and also try component out as posg suggested to see if this is the case.

Thanks for all of the help guys.

ahh - yes, I spoke too soon on that. Seems the only thing still set is 1080i. I'm using DVI out also.

As far as help goes, you just have to swallow the bitter pill that most people that work in an industry are not "enthusiasts" and will only learn what they need to know.

You are right. It really does not make sense to train poeple to serve such a small segment when they have millions of customers that woudln't know the difference between HD and VD.

Per this input...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6836228&&#post6836228

Is it my understanding then that if I buy a QAM-capable tuner (MDP-130) for my HTPC that I'll get these channels, or at least the ones available in Cary?

So last week Disc HD moved from 84.2 to 110.4 on my tuner. Everything else was the same. Now I have lost TNT and Disc again. So i know there has been some speculation that TWC has been trying to cut these off for people without the digipc 1000 service level, which I dont have.

Does anyone know for sure that they have not just been moved again like DiscHD was moved for me last week? Anyone done a search for them at all?

If so let us know!

:)

Does anyone know for sure that they have not just been moved again like DiscHD was moved for me last week?
I'm sure they have not been moved. They are just no longer "clear to air".

Is anyone else having lip sync problems with NBC's evening HD programs through TWC 's cable QAM broadcast?

The other networks seem to be ok. :confused:

I saw lip sync problems watching Law & Order SVU this week, but not on other shows.

More often, I've seen digital artifacting and facial ghosting with NCN-HD. I've seen none of these issues on any other channel (using an 8300HD to feed a 42" plasma) The facial ghosting in particular is annoying. I've seen it on all of the L&O shows and on the West Wing.

Just for comparison I watched some L&O reruns on TNT and L&O SVU on UniversalHD, and did not see the same problems on either of those channels, so I believe it to be an NCN-HD only problem.

Has anyone else been seeing these types of problems on NCN?

Per this input...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6836228&&#post6836228

Is it my understanding then that if I buy a QAM-capable tuner (MDP-130) for my HTPC that I'll get these channels, or at least the ones available in Cary?
That is correct except no more DiscHD or TNTHD.

So last week Disc HD moved from 84.2 to 110.4 on my tuner. Everything else was the same. Now I have lost TNT and Disc again. So i know there has been some speculation that TWC has been trying to cut these off for people without the digipc 1000 service level, which I dont have.

Does anyone know for sure that they have not just been moved again like DiscHD was moved for me last week? Anyone done a search for them at all?

If so let us know!

:)
I have the equivilant of the DIGIPiC 4000 package (had all this way before they named them DIGIPiC) plus the HD Suite and as of this week I'm not getting DiscHD or TNTHD anymore with my QAM tuner.

DiscHD or TNTHD is still there on the same QAM allocation, they're just not set to Clear to Air anymore.

Is anyone else having lip sync problems with NBC's evening HD programs through TWC 's cable QAM broadcast?


Yes. L&O Weds evening, and the Earl from 8:30 on Thurs both had lip sync problems. I haven't watched anything else yet from NBC this week.

Drew

Yes. L&O Weds evening, and the Earl from 8:30 on Thurs both had lip sync problems. I haven't watched anything else yet from NBC this week.

Drew
Not in Raleigh or on TWC, but I watched a bit of EarlHD and noticed no sync issues.

Not in Raleigh or on TWC, but I watched a bit of EarlHD and noticed no sync issues.

Yeah, I don't think its a TWC thing. The L&O I noticed the lip sync problem in was recorded OTA.

Drew

I have the equivilant of the DIGIPiC 4000 package (had all this way before they named them DIGIPiC) plus the HD Suite and as of this week I'm not getting DiscHD or TNTHD anymore with my QAM tuner.

DiscHD or TNTHD is still there on the same QAM allocation, they're just not set to Clear to Air anymore.


So is anyone getting those channels now because according to TWC you are supposed to with at least the DigiPC 1000 level of service. Or are you saying that you dont get them on the QAM but can get them with a cable card or box now?

Is anyone else having lip sync problems with NBC's evening HD programs through TWC 's cable QAM broadcast?

The other networks seem to be ok. :confused:

I did during a "clip" shown in the local evening news (channel surfing) on Friday 3/31. I thought it was the clip, as the broadcast seemed ok, but I surfed away soon after.

Forgive me, I am not a broadcast engineer. But I do know there's a couple of ways to accomplish noise reduction in a video chain, the first being simple real time filtering of the high frequency response which simply softens the image.


Well, there ya go...
A guy comes on here and tries to answer some questions, and suddenly people start assuming things that are not even close to reality.

Sorry, posg, but we don't do any optimizations or changes other than re-encoding the stream for broadcast. Some of the lower quality encoders may provide a "do it all in one box" solution, but not ours. Our encoders are not capable of signal changes by themselves. This is being handled by a separate device which is totally switched out of the signal chain when we are passing through the HD material. Perhaps in your other markets to which you refer they were actually "enhancing" (distorting) the signal from WB, and when you see the real deal on WLFL-DT you assume that we are putting the "vaseline smear filter" on it somehow? I know I sure can't see any difference between, say WLFL-DT and the other HD broadcasters in this area. If there were any "crushed blacks" I sure don't have any way to compensate for this, since there is no signal processing that I can perform from the network.

In fact, there are signal processing tricks I can do, but only on the upconversion signal when we upconvert from SD. The only thing that (as of right now) is being done here though is the sidebars. I have all of the noise reduction effectively turned off, since there is already an extremely clean feed being sent to the upconversion components. All the "detail" (edge) enhancement is turned off to, as this simply adds more distortion and creates a false sense of added resolution to the signal. The way I see it, if the viewer wants to distort the signal, they certainly have enough circuitry in thier HDTVs to do so, but since I run my Mits RPTV at home without all this junk turned on, I certainly don't want to see it added by the broadcaster.


But thanks for your response. Guessing from your screen name, you just do contract work for the station. Anybody who follows this string knows my feelings towards Sinclair, so I'll shut up.


You guess wrong again as well; I'm not a contract engineer. KD4PBS is an amateur radio callsign. I'm a full-time employee, and have been for over 10 years. I worked my way up from evening/news tech to Chief Engineer in the process. Whatever poltical agenda you may assume I have because of my affiliation would also be incorrect; Sinclair Broadcast Group compensates me fairly for the hard work and dedication I have for my job, and I have nothing but respect and gratitude for them allowing me to work someplace pleasant and keep my family fed and housed. If you really want to be an expert at what SBG is all about, why not come to work for us and find out first hand instead of listening to what some disgruntled ex employee might have to say?

Don't believe everything you may hear or read on the internet about SBG.

Actually, the towers are right next to each other. Tropo was better this morning than it has been lately. Should continue to improve as the daytime temperatures get warmer.
posg, do you live for dispensing false information on the internet? ;) WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are on the exact same tower as WNCN-TV, WNCN-DT, WRAL-DT, and WRAZ-DT. In fact, we're all at the same height, give or take the height of the actual antenna, on top of the tower thanks to the candelabra design that Capitol Broadcasting Company (WRAL/WRAZ) incorporated into this tower.
WRDC-DT's antenna is supporting WLFL-DT's antenna. It is mounted on one "arbor" that is at the top of the tower, 120 degrees displaced from WNCN-TV and WNCN-DT's antennas (I'm not sure which one is supporting which, I'd guess the DT antenna is on top of the TV antenna), and 120 degrees displaced the other way from WRAL-DT and WRAZ-DT's antennas.

posg, do you live for dispensing false information on the internet? ;) WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are on the exact same tower as WNCN-TV, WNCN-DT, WRAL-DT, and WRAZ-DT. In fact, we're all at the same height, give or take the height of the actual antenna, on top of the tower thanks to the candelabra design that Capitol Broadcasting Company (WRAL/WRAZ) incorporated into this tower.
WRDC-DT's antenna is supporting WLFL-DT's antenna. It is mounted on one "arbor" that is at the top of the tower, 120 degrees displaced from WNCN-TV and WNCN-DT's antennas (I'm not sure which one is supporting which, I'd guess the DT antenna is on top of the TV antenna), and 120 degrees displaced the other way from WRAL-DT and WRAZ-DT's antennas.

The information I dispensed was based on entering transmitter coordinates from the FCC database into Google Earth. If I am wrong, the FCC database is wrong, because it distinctly shows WRDC/WLFL on "the other" tower.

Regardless, please accept my personal apologies for any negative comments. They are directed at Sinclair, not at you personally.

kd4pbs,

Again, thx for the info. Unless HDNet/HDNetMovies, InHD/InHD2, ESPNHD, HBOHD, TNTHD, SHOHD & UniversalHD that I get along with the other Raleigh, Florence and Wilmington stations I get are passed to us @ 18Mbps or more and with no artifical enhancement (which I doubt) I really don't recall reading of any other HD feed offered at 18Mbps. Maybe that 18Mbps and no enhancement is what makes WLFL-HD look different and nobody is use to seeing HD like that. :)

What the heck, show us how HD can look like diamonds, feed us the whole 20Mpbs. :D j/k.

Although I was viewing through a 32" calibrated analog back around 1996/7 when I first saw an HDTV being feed an HD signal on the Cnet show it looked to have a glossy look to it (something I've not seen yet after owning an HD display for over 5 years, even ISF'd). I've yet to get WLFL's primetime HD feed but hope to one evening.

Just don't leave this forum please. We need all the input all broadcast engineers can provide. ;)