So given this logic, why should TWC ever support anything? There is always something new coming that will make current technology obsolete. Shouldn't TWC support the technology that is available now until the new thing is in use? Jeez, even Microsoft supports older OS's when the new one comes out.

I guess it's cheaper to give crappy service to customers and hire a marketing person to sing the praises of the new thing. I wonder what will be marketed to us next after OCAP is working but not really supported? :rolleyes:

The CableCard that TWC installed in my TV is having problems keeping the channel lineup correct. The date the firmware was last updated on my CableCard is listed as March 2005, over 16 months old.

When cable companies say the are going to support some future technology (e.g. OCAP), it lets them continue to rent high profit margin, cheap STBs to consumers. If the future technology is also much less expensive for consumers, and cuts into the cable companies margins, I'm sure it will also have "issues", just like CableCards.

If you believe the Cable companies will have an inexpensive solution with OCAP in 2007, I also have a hydrogen fuel cell car I can sell you. By 2008 consumers will affectionately refer to the OCAP standard and O-CRAP.

To increase their profit margins Cable companies may start installing an illegal alien in your home to change channels for you. Illegals could do the job my CableCard just doesn't want to do, and less expensively :mad:

I am not receiving the HD feed from Fox 50 (WRAZ) on my LG over the air receiver (not for a couple of days now). Anyone else having problems?

I've noticed that I'm finally getting EPG from WRAZ, but now I don't have 50.1 at all.
It's not you. It's them. It's OK on TWC because they have a direct fiber feed from the station.
I just got an email reply from WRAZ. Judging from the wording of the email they are just now getting around to looking into this problem. It seems I am only the 2nd OTA viewer who took the time to complain. I didn't check this morning, but I know that last night I was still having problems.

I just got an email reply from WRAZ. Judging from the wording of the email they are just now getting around to looking into this problem. It seems I am only the 2nd OTA viewer who took the time to complain. I didn't check this morning, but I know that last night I was still having problems.

I watch the 10PM News each night on WRAZ 50.1 OTA. Haven't seen any problems at all.

Steve

HDTV-NUT ,

Bummer you are moving back to Jersey. Will you have to half the size of the house you are living in now in order to afford a house in Jersey? If so maybe there is not room for your TV.

In regards to your tv. Is that soemthing you could place on a pallet so it could be more readily and safely handled by a mover. And maybe wrap a lot of protection around it.

I still have the Original boxes for my Pioneer Plasma and was thinking they sure take up a lot of room in the attic as well as draw insects that eat paper.

Another note as Ubiquitous as the large screens are getting don't the movers now supply universal moving boxes for them?

Don

SteveFitz1 ,

I have been experiencing OTA reception problems across the board with Raleigh stations not just with 50.1.

First I had trouble receiving 4.1 than I tried watching something on 17.1 and had terrible lockon problems an signal at 65 max. Could not even watch 17.1.

Than 11.1 and 5.1 hickupped a few times recently while watching them.

I was guessing that it was due to all the leaves now on the trees.

Of course the analog version of all these channels comes in fine :mad:

DonB2

SteveFitz1 ,

I have been experiencing OTA reception problems across the board with Raleigh stations not just with 50.1.

First I had trouble receiving 4.1 than I tried watching something on 17.1 and had terrible lockon problems an signal at 65 max. Could not even watch 17.1.

Than 11.1 and 5.1 hickupped a few times recently while watching them.

I was guessing that it was due to all the leaves now on the trees.

Of course the analog version of all these channels comes in fine :mad:

DonB2
Well, I'm not having signal strength issues. Quite the opposite, actually. All the Raleigh/Durham stations I watch (minus WUNC, due to antenna placement) have rock solid signal strength on my equipment. I'll let the forum know if WRAZ actually finds a problem and then if there is a resolution.

Your all going to loooooove this. :D TWC is about to add a new channel according to the website!!! THANK YOU TWC!!!
...
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Can you guess what it is!? :D
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It's!
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ExpoTV on Demand on channel 1110. Ugh! Grrrrrrrr!!!

Ive been debating the move to Dish for awhile now, but I have a couple of questions first. One thing that I would miss via Dish is having all of the HD NCAA tournament games in HD (since WRAL OTA is SD only the first weekend and only 1 HD game at a time the second weekend, and Im guessing if Dish gets Raleigh HD locals, it will be based on the OTA broadcast). TWC has to leave the local channels in the free and clear from what I hear, and I believe this includes HD too, correct? So my question is, would I still be able to view all of my local HD channels, including both WRAL-HDs at that time of year, via a QAM tuner even without TWC service?

Still cannot play anything back via the DVR without the 8300 freezing. Does the same thing with On Demand also, box freezes and reboots itself.

What the hell did TWC do to the boxes this time?

Ive been debating the move to Dish for awhile now, but I have a couple of questions first. One thing that I would miss via Dish is having all of the HD NCAA tournament games in HD (since WRAL OTA is SD only the first weekend and only 1 HD game at a time the second weekend, and Im guessing if Dish gets Raleigh HD locals, it will be based on the OTA broadcast). TWC has to leave the local channels in the free and clear from what I hear, and I believe this includes HD too, correct? So my question is, would I still be able to view all of my local HD channels, including both WRAL-HDs at that time of year, via a QAM tuner even without TWC service?
you have to subscribe to at least basic cable, or else they might cut off everything coming to your house. If you have some TWC service (phone, internet, or cable TV), you'll probably get basic cable out of the wall, even if you're not paying for it.

question - anyone know how much digital cable with just CableCard costs? how flexible are they? ie can i just add the HD suite without paying for all the other garbage digital channels?

Well I finally had enough. I unplugged both of my 8300 boxes and cancelled my Digital Service. My TV has a tuner so I can get all the locals in HD by plugging into the wall or OTA. My TV also has a 16:9 HD Guide that I have never used because I always had the 8300 connected to it.

I will miss the DVR and the cable hd channels such as HDNET Movies and such but I will have to live with it until we move back to jersey in a few months.

question - anyone know how much digital cable with just CableCard costs? how flexible are they? ie can i just add the HD suite without paying for all the other garbage digital channels?

If you get one of the digital cable packages you can get a CableCard instead of a STB for the same price. As for flexibility, I don't think you can get the HD Suite without the digital package. I asked them if I could get a CableCard with the standard package just to get the digital versions of all the analog channels (I don't want any of the channels in the digital tier), and they never answered me on that.

you have to subscribe to at least basic cable, or else they might cut off everything coming to your house. If you have some TWC service (phone, internet, or cable TV), you'll probably get basic cable out of the wall, even if you're not paying for it.

Thanks, yeah, I should have mentioned I would be keeping Roadrunner regardless of what I do. Also, to clarify, Im not looking to "cheat" the cable company, but from what I hear these channels are supposed to be available to everyone regardless. I guess the only thing I might be missing out on with Dish would be the inHDs, which isnt much, and whenever FSN does a Canes game in HD, which isnt that often.

Still cannot play anything back via the DVR without the 8300 freezing. Does the same thing with On Demand also, box freezes and reboots itself.

What the hell did TWC do to the boxes this time?

I called tech support last night when I got back into town. He said there was a problem with the signal to my box and it would require a service call..1st evening call... next week at the earliest :mad: He could tell from his end what channel I was watching, but there was still a signal problem :confused: ... so... I checked all of my connections... all were fully screwed tight... but for giggles I disconnected and reconnected the only connection inside the house (wall to DVR). When I reconnected it, I can now play stored material back.

So I don't know if the cable magically unscrewed itself (doubtful, it seemed fully tight), or somehow diconnecting/reconnecting broke the signal and forced some kind of handshake.

I wonder if they did something to reduce signal strength on their mgt interface. Since something happened to several of us the same night, I think it was something on the TWC end, but who knows what.

I will say that I seem to have more "red push" on my SD material than I remember.

As soon as the Raleigh HD locals are turned on for Dish, I'll be making the switch.

Mike

anyone know how much digital cable with just CableCard costs?
DigiPic1000 with a CableCard (instead of a digital box and remote control) is $56.55/month+taxes&fees (plus a one-time $42.95 CableCard installation fee), according to my calculations.

By comparison, DigiPic1000 with a digital box and remote control (instead of a CableCard) is $61.75/month+taxes&fees.
how flexible are they? ie can i just add the HD suite without paying for all the other garbage digital channels?
You can add HD Suite only if you get a DigiPic package.

However, you can add Premium channels such as HBO HD and Showtime HD to any package, even to the most basic service.

DigiPic1000 with a CableCard (instead of a digital box and remote control) is $56.55/month+taxes&fees (plus a one-time $42.95 CableCard installation fee), according to my calculations.

By comparison, DigiPic1000 with a digital box and remote control (instead of a CableCard) is $61.75/month+taxes&fees.

You can add HD Suite only if you get a DigiPic package.

However, you can add Premium channels such as HBO HD and Showtime HD to any package, even to the most basic service.
Perhaps mentioned earlier, but if you have the Digipic package with Roadrunner, you get a $5 discount off Roadrunner. If you add a any cablecard (even if you already have and plan to keep a STB), they will no longer give you the $5 discount off Roadrunner. They penalize you for having a cablecard whether it is with or without a STB! I asked TWC for some logical reason why this is so but they couldn't provide me one except to say "that's just the way it is".

DirecTv delays new HD DVR.
I love the quote "Or worse yet, cable. " :)

http://www.skyreport.com/#Story1

Thanks, yeah, I should have mentioned I would be keeping Roadrunner regardless of what I do. Also, to clarify, Im not looking to "cheat" the cable company, but from what I hear these channels are supposed to be available to everyone regardless. I guess the only thing I might be missing out on with Dish would be the inHDs, which isnt much, and whenever FSN does a Canes game in HD, which isnt that often.
DISH is adding HD feeds of their regional sports channels in the Fall.

For the 1 or 2 days that WRAL offers a second HD game on TWC, go to a friends with TWC & 25 less HD channels. :cool:

I sent an inquiry to TWC of Raleigh to see what the costs of 2 cablecards would be for use with a soon to be released HD Tivo Series 3, this is the response I got:

"Response:Time Warner Cable of Raleigh does not provide support for or allow TIVO devices on our cable network. Time Warner Cable provides DVR service and equipment for customers that would like to record programs and watch them later. Cable Cards will only be installed on Cable ready, Cable Card slot available television sets. This policy is subject to change at the discretion of Time Warner Cable of Raleigh."


I really hope this changes, it is absolutely unacceptable. I've been looking forward to the series 3 tivo since 1/6/2005 when it was announced. There are few things I want to do more than replace my featureless 8300HD box from TW.

I sent an inquiry to TWC of Raleigh to see what the costs of 2 cablecards would be for use with a soon to be released HD Tivo Series 3, this is the response I got:

"Response:Time Warner Cable of Raleigh does not provide support for or allow TIVO devices on our cable network. Time Warner Cable provides DVR service and equipment for customers that would like to record programs and watch them later. Cable Cards will only be installed on Cable ready, Cable Card slot available television sets. This policy is subject to change at the discretion of Time Warner Cable of Raleigh."


I really hope this changes, it is absolutely unacceptable. I've been looking forward to the series 3 tivo since 1/6/2005 when it was announced. There are few things I want to do more than replace my featureless 8300HD box from TW.

OMG... That sucks loud....

If they wont allow Tivo.. then why dont they fix their crappy box so external SATA works properly and that the scheduling algorithm is smart enough to filter out repeats.....

Sounds like time to start complaining....

Not only does that "suck loud," it is almost certainly illegal. My conclusion: you have a clueless CSR who thinks you're talking about hooking up a DirecTV-only TiVo (which wouldn't work anyway).

Yeh, definately time to complain. I hope they either change their "rape our customers" policy before the Series 3 is released or AT LEAST publicize the fact that they won't allow Tivo's access to their network so ppl don't buy a Series 3 tivo then get home and suffer the disappointment of calling TWC for a cablecard "installation" and finding out that TWC won't allow them access to a higher quality product than they can provide.

I suppose he may not know what he's talking about...he is definately wrong about the Tivo not functioning properly with a version 1.0 cablecard as far as I can tell...but it does sound as though he knows that that policy exists concerning not installing the cards in Tivos.

I suppose he may not know what he's talking about...he is definately wrong about the Tivo not functioning properly with a version 1.0 cablecard as far as I can tell...but it does sound as though he knows that that policy exists concerning not installing the cards in Tivos.


I just got the same answer and asked for an escalation point and confirmation that the statement applied to Series 3.. a cablecard ready and certified device.....

TRACKING NUMBER: 88193
Inquiry:Dear TWC,

I am writing to determine TWC's position on the upcoming release of Tivo system 3 DVR's using cablecard technology. I intend to purchase a Series 3 when its available due to its superior functionality. However, I was told that TWC has indicated that it will not allow its customers to use these products and TWC will not install CableCards in them. I would like to understand this situation and determine the truth.
____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Response:Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable of Raleigh. Currently Time Warner Cable does not support or install service to TIVO devices of any kind. We are only able to install Cable Cards to Cable Card slot ready television sets.

I sent an inquiry to TWC of Raleigh to see what the costs of 2 cablecards would be for use with a soon to be released HD Tivo Series 3, this is the response I got:

"Response:Time Warner Cable of Raleigh does not provide support for or allow TIVO devices on our cable network. Time Warner Cable provides DVR service and equipment for customers that would like to record programs and watch them later. Cable Cards will only be installed on Cable ready, Cable Card slot available television sets. This policy is subject to change at the discretion of Time Warner Cable of Raleigh."


I really hope this changes, it is absolutely unacceptable. I've been looking forward to the series 3 tivo since 1/6/2005 when it was announced. There are few things I want to do more than replace my featureless 8300HD box from TW.

Take the response, send it to TiVo, send it to the FCC, and send a copy to the TWC attorneys reminding them that they are required by law to provide CableCards for any CableLab certified device. And since the S3 has been approved by CableLabs, TWC can go take a flying leap and &*%$ themselves if they think they can get away with this.

On a more practical note, TiVo will be providing instructions for the installers in the S3 box. For the rape that is a $40 truck role for a cablecard "install," hopefully the tech will at least be able to read. Tell TWC you want two cablecards for two TVs. When the tech gets there hand him the instructions and point at the TiVo.

Called up and cancelled today, only took me about 2 HOURS!!

First tech put me on hold for about 20 minutes and never came back. Called back and had to wait for about 20 minutes to get someone to pick up. Finally got to talk with someone and it took forever to make her understand that all I wanted to do is get rid of my digital cable service and just keep the standard. She couldnt understand the fact that my TV has a HD tuner. She kept saying that without a box, no TV can get HD. LOL!

My old bill: $196.76

New Bill: $112.37

I still have my Cable Internet and Phone with them.

On a more practical note, TiVo will be providing instructions for the installers in the S3 box. For the rape that is a $40 truck role for a cablecard "install," hopefully the tech will at least be able to read. Tell TWC you want two cablecards for two TVs. When the tech gets there hand him the instructions and point at the TiVo.

Speaking of the $42.75 "install fee", in a separate inquiry I sent asking if I'd be charged $42.75 EACH if I got two cable cards at once, the answer was "Yes, you will be charged $42.75 per CableCard." IMO, they shouldn't charge us install fees if they refuse to allow us to pick these items up.

Speaking of CableCard vs the TWC DVRs: Will a CableCard DVR be able to play recorded programs during a cable outage? Or will it have the same problems that lots of people have recently had with their 8300s where they cannot view recorded material if the connection to TWC is out?

Thanks,

Drew

Called up and cancelled today, only took me about 2 HOURS!!

First tech put me on hold for about 20 minutes and never came back. Called back and had to wait for about 20 minutes to get someone to pick up. Finally got to talk with someone ...
Same thing happened to me. I got hung-up on 20+ minutes into my first call. I was fuming :mad: . I couldn't even get rid of the sucky service without getting more sucky service. When I finally got someone on the phone after 30+ minutes on my second call I was not a pleasant customer to deal with. I kept Internet as well, so if I find a competitive provider to RR I will block-out an afternoon to cancel it.
It should be against the law to have longer wait times to Cancel a service than to Join.

Speaking of CableCard vs the TWC DVRs: Will a CableCard DVR be able to play recorded programs during a cable outage? Or will it have the same problems that lots of people have recently had with their 8300s where they cannot view recorded material if the connection to TWC is out?

I would say that Tivos would almost certainly not have this problem. The reason 8300's have this problem is probably because they suck:) Tivo's are high quality hardware devices built for user-friendliness and feature rich experiences. TWC's boxes are not like that.

Same thing happened to me. I got hung-up on 20+ minutes into my first call.

Wow. Maybe they have changed their call center staffing. This is totally different than the experience we have when we cancel. And we have cancelled a lot. We add the basic+standard analog cable every year in November and drop it in April so as to get ESPN/ESPN2/FSN for basketball season. In the last 3 years, we've cancelled 3 times. In every case the CSR has been polite, and the call has been quick and painless. I don't think I've ever been on the phone more that 5 minutes, including hold time.

Maybe this is because I usually call early (7am?) in the morning..

Drew

I would say that Tivos would almost certainly not have this problem. The reason 8300's have this problem is probably because they suck:) Tivo's are high quality hardware devices built for user-friendliness and feature rich experiences. TWC's boxes are not like that.

I sort of thought it was because they had to phone-home to get some sort of decryption key, not just because they suck. If Tivos don't have this problem, it would mean they didn't have to phone home, and the keys to decrypt programs are stored on the cable card, or on the hard disk, or something. I'm sure posg will explain how it all works..

Drew

Called up and cancelled today, only took me about 2 HOURS!!


Given that TWC is an AOL property, they must be sharing "retention specialists." Although, 2 hours would be a record for AOL.

Speaking of the $42.75 "install fee", in a separate inquiry I sent asking if I'd be charged $42.75 EACH if I got two cable cards at once, the answer was "Yes, you will be charged $42.75 per CableCard." IMO, they shouldn't charge us install fees if they refuse to allow us to pick these items up.

Man, I hope TWC brings some lube to go with that. That's twice the reason to just lie to them about what you have and make the installer stay until it all works, even if it takes an entire day to get it done. In fact, maybe before the installer comes I'll go disconnect the cable at the street, loosen the cable connecting to the house, and any other little thing I can think of just to waste their time. Or they could let me pick the cards up and install them myself, as I am literate and can use a telephone, the only criteria necessary for installing a cablecard.

You know, I was just starting to mellow to TWC and decided they weren't as bad as I've intimated in the past here. I was right. They aren't as bad. They are WORSE.

Well, you might be right...obviously I can't be 100% sure since the Series 3 isn't out yet. But since TivoToGo allows you to copy video to your PC or Ipod, you'd think that recorded video would be totally detached from the cable network. But who knows...the industry trend is to make things more and more difficult for the consumer after all and TIVO refuses to let their customers know anything until their product is on the shelves:(


I sort of thought it was because they had to phone-home to get some sort of decryption key, not just because they suck. If Tivos don't have this problem, it would mean they didn't have to phone home, and the keys to decrypt programs are stored on the cable card, or on the hard disk, or something. I'm sure posg will explain how it all works..

Drew

Anyone know where to find any real documentation layout out exactly what the FCC is requiring of cable operators with regards to providing Cable Cards to their customers? The FCC's website is one of the worst I've ever seen, I have spent a sad amount of time trying to find a document describing exactly what the FCC is requiring...do cable operators have to provide Cable Cards for televisions only, do they have to provide them for ALL CableLabs certified cable card supporting device, etc...? That's what I'm looking for:)

THanks

I sort of thought it was because they had to phone-home to get some sort of decryption key

Correct. They suck ;)

Anyone know where to find any real documentation layout out exactly what the FCC is requiring of cable operators with regards to providing Cable Cards to their customers? The FCC's website is one of the worst I've ever seen, I have spent a sad amount of time trying to find a document describing exactly what the FCC is requiring...do cable operators have to provide Cable Cards for televisions only, do they have to provide them for ALL CableLabs certified cable card supporting device, etc...? That's what I'm looking for:)

THanks

Have you escalated to management yet? I did this morning... They are going to have someone call me back. Im gonna kick about the 42 bucks per card too...

I just got the same answer and asked for an escalation point and confirmation that the statement applied to Series 3.. a cablecard ready and certified device.....

TRACKING NUMBER: 88193
Inquiry:Dear TWC,

I am writing to determine TWC's position on the upcoming release of Tivo system 3 DVR's using cablecard technology. I intend to purchase a Series 3 when its available due to its superior functionality. However, I was told that TWC has indicated that it will not allow its customers to use these products and TWC will not install CableCards in them. I would like to understand this situation and determine the truth.
____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Response:Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable of Raleigh. Currently Time Warner Cable does not support or install service to TIVO devices of any kind. We are only able to install Cable Cards to Cable Card slot ready television sets.

Post this over on the tivo community.. That should get some angry reactions.

Of course, you can't expect TWC to be supporting a vaporware Tivo at the moment.

I sent an inquiry to TWC of Raleigh to see what the costs of 2 cablecards would be for use with a soon to be released HD Tivo Series 3, this is the response I got:

"Response:Time Warner Cable of Raleigh does not provide support for or allow TIVO devices on our cable network. Time Warner Cable provides DVR service and equipment for customers that would like to record programs and watch them later. Cable Cards will only be installed on Cable ready, Cable Card slot available television sets. This policy is subject to change at the discretion of Time Warner Cable of Raleigh."


I emailed the Raleigh Telecommunications Commission this morning and got another odd response:

MY EMAIL TO RTC:
Hello,

As you probably know, Tivo is releasing a new version of its box, the Series 3. This box supports CableCard 1.0 and 2.0 and is CableLabs certified. It is supposed to be released in the next few months.

I sent an email to Time Warner Cable of Raleigh inquiring about whether I would be able to pick up a Cable Card or if they had to send a technician to install them when I get a Series 3 Tivo when they come out. Their response was that they won't provide cable cards for or install cable cards in anything other than televisions. From what I've read, they are supposed to provide them for and install them in any CableLabs certified CableCard supporting device.


RESPONSE FROM RTC:
Thank you for your inquiry. You have reached the right person. No cable company is required to provide technical support or updates for equipment that they do not provide. As Time Warner’s email response indicated, TIVO devices compete with some of the converters and/or “on-demand” type services they provide. Like all other businesses, video service providers are under no obligation to assist or support their competition.

They can choose to place addressable or updateable service cards in “cable ready” televisions. They most likely do so because it enables them to sell additional video services, and they do not compete for the sale, rental or leasing of televisions. I’m sure they feel that placing cards in televisions will help their business, and that placing them in TIVO type devices will harm their business.

By the way, while video service providers don’t have to support any device they don’t provide, they can’t prohibit you from attaching or using any legal device (such as TIVO), as long as it does not interfere with or affect their cable plant or signal. Some cable operators may not be willing to affirmatively provide permission to attach TIVO type devices to their systems because of copyright liability concerns. They have resolved any copyright concerns associated with equipment they provide, but may not have been able to resolve those concerns for equipment they do not provide. I’m sure you are also aware that it is illegal to sell, rent, lease or place on public display any videos that you may record using TIVO or any other recording device.



This guy makes it sound as if there is absolutely no requirement at all regarding CableCards...

Well, I'm not having signal strength issues. Quite the opposite, actually. All the Raleigh/Durham stations I watch (minus WUNC, due to antenna placement) have rock solid signal strength on my equipment. I'll let the forum know if WRAZ actually finds a problem and then if there is a resolution.
This was rectified by WRAZ on Monday. Sorry for the late post ... been busy. I've now got all 3 multicast channels from WRAZ in addition to full EPG. The EPG from WRAZ I've been missing for a while ... it's nice to have it back, finally.

Anyone know where to find any real documentation layout out exactly what the FCC is requiring of cable operators with regards to providing Cable Cards to their customers? The FCC's website is one of the worst I've ever seen, I have spent a sad amount of time trying to find a document describing exactly what the FCC is requiring...do cable operators have to provide Cable Cards for televisions only, do they have to provide them for ALL CableLabs certified cable card supporting device, etc...? That's what I'm looking for:)

THanks
You can find the actual regulation at this link: 47CFR76.1204 (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr76.1204.htm)

In particular, it states:
"A multichannel video programming distributor that utilizes navigation devices to perform conditional access functions shall make available equipment that incorporates only the conditional access functions of such devices."

In other words, a cable company must provide a CableCard to its customers.

I don't see any exception that would allow the cable company to refuse to provide a CableCard if it will be installed in a recording device, such as a Tivo.

I emailed the Raleigh Telecommunications Commission this morning and got another odd response:

RESPONSE FROM RTC:
Thank you for your inquiry. You have reached the right person.

<snip>

END RESPONSE

This guy makes it sound as if there is absolutely no requirement at all regarding CableCards...

Man, if that's the right guy, I'd hate to see what the wrong guy says. He just doesn't get it. Nobody is asking TWC to support the TiVo. We are asking them to install a CableCard in a CableLab approved device as per the FCC regulations. Actually, I'm only asking to be allowed to pick up the cablecard and install it myself. TWC is the one insisting on a truck role to get this done.

I sent an email to TWC last night outlining my concern with their apparent refusal to install a cablecard in a cablelab certified device. If I get the same response I'll just submit a complaint to the FCC. If this isn't resolved when I decide to get the S3, I'll just, as I said before, tell TWC I want two cablecards installed in two TVs I have in the house. When the tech arrives I'll point and the TiVo and not let him leave until they are installed and work.

Man, if that's the right guy, I'd hate to see what the wrong guy says. He just doesn't get it. Nobody is asking TWC to support the TiVo. We are asking them to install a CableCard in a CableLab approved device as per the FCC regulations. Actually, I'm only asking to be allowed to pick up the cablecard and install it myself. TWC is the one insisting on a truck role to get this done.

I sent an email to TWC last night outlining my concern with their apparent refusal to install a cablecard in a cablelab certified device. If I get the same response I'll just submit a complaint to the FCC. If this isn't resolved when I decide to get the S3, I'll just, as I said before, tell TWC I want two cablecards installed in two TVs I have in the house. When the tech arrives I'll point and the TiVo and not let him leave until they are installed and work.



No kidding, I was blown away...sadly, that guy's job title is "Cable Administrator".


Here's a Digg article linking to details about this on ConsumerFury.com

It has links to the relevent CFR documents (like was posted above)


http://digg.com/hardware/Time_Warner_Cable_not_supporting_Series_3_Tivo

Hey guys, I cant seem to pick up UNC-HD when I manually type in 4-2 in my TV. I pick up the other PBS stations fine but cant seem to get the HD Pbs channel.

Thanks for any help.

I have a cablecard question... If I have an operational cablecard installed in a tv and then I replace the tv, do i just move the card from the old tv to the new? Is there anything else involved?

Hey guys, I cant seem to pick up UNC-HD when I manually type in 4-2 in my TV. I pick up the other PBS stations fine but cant seem to get the HD Pbs channel.

Thanks for any help.
If you're doing this via cable, I can't help you. But if you're pulling this in over the air, PBS only broadcasts 4.2 from 8pm to 11pm every night. You may also notice that they shut off 4.4 and 4.5 during that period in order to create the bandwidth for the HD feed.

Hey guys, I cant seem to pick up UNC-HD when I manually type in 4-2 in my TV. I pick up the other PBS stations fine but cant seem to get the HD Pbs channel.

Thanks for any help.
Try 90.2 if your using your tv's QAM tuner with cable. It doesn't remap on mine either.

Hey guys, I cant seem to pick up UNC-HD when I manually type in 4-2 in my TV. I pick up the other PBS stations fine but cant seem to get the HD Pbs channel.

Thanks for any help.
Remember, UNC-HD OTA is only available during prime time. The UNC-HD cable feed repeats during the day, as does SCETV's OTA.

I have a cablecard question... If I have an operational cablecard installed in a tv and then I replace the tv, do i just move the card from the old tv to the new? Is there anything else involved?

I believe that during the install the CableCard was paired with the device. If you get a new device, you will have to have the CableCard re-paired. Oh, look. Another $45 truck role by TWC. How convenient for them.

Playback on the 8300HD is locking up again... TWC was only able to tell me they could come between 8 and 5... maybe advanced scheduling is in that "5 years from now" plan too :)

Mike

Man, if that's the right guy, I'd hate to see what the wrong guy says. He just doesn't get it. Nobody is asking TWC to support the TiVo. We are asking them to install a CableCard in a CableLab approved device as per the FCC regulations. Actually, I'm only asking to be allowed to pick up the cablecard and install it myself. TWC is the one insisting on a truck role to get this done.

I sent an email to TWC last night outlining my concern with their apparent refusal to install a cablecard in a cablelab certified device. If I get the same response I'll just submit a complaint to the FCC. If this isn't resolved when I decide to get the S3, I'll just, as I said before, tell TWC I want two cablecards installed in two TVs I have in the house. When the tech arrives I'll point and the TiVo and not let him leave until they are installed and work.

And just this morning i heard a TWC commercial about their digital phone, saying how "the local phone company hates competetion, but at Time Warner, we think competition is a good thing!"

And just this morning i heard a TWC commercial about their digital phone, saying how "the local phone company hates competetion, but at Time Warner, we think competition is a good thing!"

Now that is FUNNY!!!!

Playback on the 8300HD is locking up again... TWC was only able to tell me they could come between 8 and 5... maybe advanced scheduling is in that "5 years from now" plan too :)

Mike

Splash one 8300HD. The guy looked at 999 for signal strength and said he thought it might actually be too strong (+4dB).... but despite changing/checking everything the old box would not play back material... sooo... I lost everything I had stored and got a new box. Only plus is this one has 1394... off to look into DVHS for my Mac....

Mike

EDIT: is anyone local able to get the Firewire ports to talk? Admittedly this is new to me, but trying 2 different apps, both seem to know there is an 8300hd on the other end, but I get stored filed that seem reasonable sizes that will not play back. (I'm just recording 2 minute test chunks right until I can work out the kinks). I've seen suggestions that the ports are not enabled on the 8300HD in some forums. Feel free to PM.

"If you're doing this via cable, I can't help you. But if you're pulling this in over the air, PBS only broadcasts 4.2 from 8pm to 11pm every night. You may also notice that they shut off 4.4 and 4.5 during that period in order to create the bandwidth for the HD feed. "

I posted awhile back that PBS now has a message up on each of their multi- cast OTA channels stating time of availability.

-DonB2

No kidding, I was blown away...sadly, that guy's job title is "Cable Administrator".I have a contact in the TWC executive offices. I contacted him. His response was that TWC's policy is to provide CableCards for any verified UDCP and that they'll straighten things out in Raleigh. There is, however, apparently some controversy as to whether the Tivo Series 3 has been fully validated.

Hope this helps...

- Talk

I have a contact in the TWC executive offices. I contacted him. His response was that TWC's policy is to provide CableCards for any verified UDCP and that they'll straighten things out in Raleigh. There is, however, apparently some controversy as to whether the Tivo Series 3 has been fully validated.

Hope this helps...

- Talk


EXCELLENT..... You might tell him that the Tivo Series 3 Cable Labs certification number is TCD648250A.

And just this morning i heard a TWC commercial about their digital phone, saying how "the local phone company hates competetion, but at Time Warner, we think competition is a good thing!"
that reminds me of when TWC called my GF and said "we noticed you're paying too much for cable" and offered her digital cable for $39.99/mo for 6 months.

well no **** she's paying too much for cable!? you're the one setting the prices and have a virtual monopoly in the area!

speaking of which, anyone have tips on reducing monthly cable costs? (besides dropping programming of course). Anyway to negotiate a better deal?

along those lines, i highly recommend vonage over TWC's digital phone. My parents switched, love the service, and it's a bunch cheaper.

I have a contact in the TWC executive offices. I contacted him. His response was that TWC's policy is to provide CableCards for any verified UDCP and that they'll straighten things out in Raleigh. There is, however, apparently some controversy as to whether the Tivo Series 3 has been fully validated.

Hope this helps...

- Talk
I hope nobody is surprised that some random CSR was spewing random BS out of his ass. We see it time and time again...

I hope nobody is surprised that some random CSR was spewing random BS out of his ass. We see it time and time again...

I used to be modestly annoyed when I came to the realization that the customer service representative on the other end of the line was half way around the world, until I realized that they are much better trained, much more patient and courteous, and speak much clearer English than their domestic counterparts.

TWC might want to consider outsourcing. As much as I defend TWC and the cable industry in general, their phone support is abysmal.

Check out this article in today's USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-07-27-nfl-network_x.htm

I LOVE IT!!!!! Finally, TWC is being exposed. I can't wait until I see the first ad that the NFL Network runs that mentions Time Warner. I especially like the NFL Network rep's quote:

"We think it's asinine that Time Warner (the nation's No. 2 cable provider) carries 12 shopping channels and 50 other channels you don't want — but can't find room for one dedicated to the most popular sport in this country," Palansky says. "We're replacing the kid gloves with bare knuckles."

Amen.

The way I see it, TWC now has 2 choices. They can continue their current stance of ignoring customer demand and crying the blues about subscription fees (while they count the record profits they are reaping from you and me)-- all the while not giving a damn how many THOUSANDS of subscribers leave for satellite. OR, they will grudgingly sign up with the NFL ... for about double the cost that they could have gotten 2 years ago.

So, all you shopping channel lovers, can get busy and dial your favorite TWC sychophant and tell them to hold firm and not bend under the pressure of the mean old NFL. Somehow, I think that the football lovers who will finally realize what TWC is doing, will also pick up the phone (better yet, email our pal Fred Dressler, TWC VP of Programming at fred.dressler@twcable.com) -- and I bet they out number the sports haters.

I don't blame the NFL for doing this-- they know that most cable subscribers just sit back ignorantly, and take whatever is jammed down their throat--- sound familiar (i.e. federal government ... but that's another story for another day)?

It shall be interesting, at the very least!!!! :D

TWC makes a statement on cable-cards in TIVO series 3.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/28/time-warner-does-doesnt-support-cablecard-tivos/

TWC makes a statement on cable-cards in TIVO series 3.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/28/time-warner-does-doesnt-support-cablecard-tivos/

It'll be nice when TWC can come out with a consistent message. They will install CableCards in TiVos I guess (as Engadget says), but the message the customers are getting today is that they won't (again, as pointed out in the Engadget post).

I think what it is really happening is that TWC will continue to say they won't install the CableCards until someone calls them on it. Then they will capitulate. TWC will easily have a year to spread FUD about the TiVo Series 3 before it has any possibility of becoming a large enough issue for the FCC to step in.

Check out this article in today's USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-07-27-nfl-network_x.htm

I LOVE IT!!!!! Finally, TWC is being exposed. I can't wait until I see the first ad that the NFL Network runs that mentions Time Warner. I especially like the NFL Network rep's quote:

"We think it's asinine that Time Warner (the nation's No. 2 cable provider) carries 12 shopping channels and 50 other channels you don't want — but can't find room for one dedicated to the most popular sport in this country," Palansky says. "We're replacing the kid gloves with bare knuckles."

Amen.

The way I see it, TWC now has 2 choices. They can continue their current stance of ignoring customer demand and crying the blues about subscription fees (while they count the record profits they are reaping from you and me)-- all the while not giving a damn how many THOUSANDS of subscribers leave for satellite. OR, they will grudgingly sign up with the NFL ... for about double the cost that they could have gotten 2 years ago.

So, all you shopping channel lovers, can get busy and dial your favorite TWC sychophant and tell them to hold firm and not bend under the pressure of the mean old NFL. Somehow, I think that the football lovers who will finally realize what TWC is doing, will also pick up the phone (better yet, email our pal Fred Dressler, TWC VP of Programming at fred.dressler@twcable.com) -- and I bet they out number the sports haters.

I don't blame the NFL for doing this-- they know that most cable subscribers just sit back ignorantly, and take whatever is jammed down their throat--- sound familiar (i.e. federal government ... but that's another story for another day)?

It shall be interesting, at the very least!!!! :D

So the NFL has $100,000,000 to spend so that they can bully cable operators into paying several multiples of that in order to get their NFL product into households.

I'm really having a hard time seeing TWC as the bad guy.

So the NFL has $100,000,000 to spend so that they can bully cable operators into paying several multiples of that in order to get their NFL product into households.

I'm really having a hard time seeing TWC as the bad guy.

Damn right. Yep, mean old NFL is bullying poor ol TWC. $100,000,000 is like a nickel to TWC. Read the articles ... did you catch the word "monolithic"? Exposed ... at last. Like I said, the sychophants will rise up. Glad to see you have their backs.

Damn right. Yep, mean old NFL is bullying poor ol TWC. $100,000,000 is like a nickel to TWC. Read the articles ... did you catch the word "monolithic"? Exposed ... at last. Like I said, the sychophants will rise up. Glad to see you have their backs.

I guess you just don't see where all of this is headed. Get your wallet out. The bastards are just getting started. :D

Damn right. Yep, mean old NFL is bullying poor ol TWC. $100,000,000 is like a nickel to TWC. Read the articles ... did you catch the word "monolithic"? Exposed ... at last. Like I said, the sychophants will rise up. Glad to see you have their backs.

There are no saints on either side of this potential deal... its one greedy bastage trying to out-greedy the other. If it going into a tier I don't have to pay for, I won't care, but I'm already paying for 100 useless channels that I'd give the a-la-carte boot if I could.

Mike

I guess you just don't see where all of this is headed. Get your wallet out. The bastards are just getting started. :D
DISH has NFL and NFL-HD. and a bunch more non shopping channels.
Is TWC cheaper than DISH ? No.

So right now TWC subscribers already have their wallet out for less channels.
You act like TWC has to raise rates for every channel they add.
DISH doesn't.

What am I missing here ?

DISH has NFL and NFL-HD. and a bunch more non shopping channels.
Is TWC cheaper than DISH ? No.

So right now TWC subscribers already have their wallet out for less channels.
You act like TWC has to raise rates for every channel they add.
DISH doesn't.

What am I missing here ?

NFL Network cut sweetheart deals with the satellite guys in order to take the cable guys hostage. From what I understand the cable guys were never given the same opportunity to get in at the "introductory rate". TWC is calling their bluff.

The NFL Network's comment is that if cable operators have room for all the shopping channels, they should have room for NFL.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It's not about room. It's about cost. Shopping channels are free and actually PAY operators based on sales generated in their zipcode footprints. But that's neither here nor there. The NFL is playing favorite nations and I have a philosophical problem with that.

Or do us all a favor and just blow your brains out now and get it over with.

I hope they put that On Demand. I might actually watch one of those channels for that.

posg/dslate, why don't you guys take to PM before the thread police show up again you ruin it for everyone. The blow your head off references are, IMHO, over the line.

NFL Network cut sweetheart deals with the satellite guys in order to take the cable guys hostage. From what I understand the cable guys were never given the same opportunity to get in at the "introductory rate". TWC is calling their bluff.

This is just plain wrong. The NFL Network has deals with 75 cable operators. All of the top 10 cable providers --- EXCEPT TWC and Cablevision (who once had it but dropped it and is about to be bought out). They don't give it away (as you imply) to the satellite operators. They (and 75 cable companies) were just smart enough to get carriage agreements years ago when the NFL was willing to do it for less.

As ALWAYS ... TWC sat on their a@@, and we get screwed.

posg/dslate, why don't you guys take to PM before the thread police show up again you ruin it for everyone. The blow your head off references are, IMHO, over the line.

You're probably right. I deleted my post. Now if I had a TV or radio talk show, I could have probably gotten away with it. :mad: :mad: :mad:

This is just plain wrong. The NFL Network has deals with 75 cable operators. All of the top 10 cable providers --- EXCEPT TWC and Cablevision (who once had it but dropped it and is about to be bought out). They don't give it away (as you imply) to the satellite operators. They (and 75 cable companies) were just smart enough to get carriage agreements years ago when the NFL was willing to do it for less.

As ALWAYS ... TWC sat on their a@@, and we get screwed.
TWC has different profit expectations.
If SATs can add 5-7 channels without passing cost on to the subscribers, TWC could add one expensive channel without asking for a hand out. Profits are at an all time high, and TWC expects to pass the cost on to it's subscribers the second cost go up one cent. What a great company. :rolleyes:

TWC has different profit expectations.
If SATs can add 5-7 channels without passing cost on to the subscribers, TWC could add one expensive channel without asking for a hand out. Profits are at an all time high, and TWC expects to pass the cost on to it's subscribers the second cost go up one cent. What a great company. :rolleyes:

Exxon/Mobil just posted the second largest quarterly profit in cooperate history, exceeded only by their own fourth quarter profit from last year. Just wanted to pass that on, since we're talking about "great companies".

The oil industry never absorbs increased costs, they merely inflate the retail price by the increased cost plus a "little for the kitty". Ain't the free marketplace great.

Got this nice response to my email into TWC Executive chain.....
I removed name and phone number since it was a personal note to me.


I apologize for all the confusion and possible miscommunication. We will and do support products that require cable cards, as long as they are cable lab certified. As for your question if we can handle the demand, we have always prided ourselves on being able to deliver to our customers whichever product they desire within a timely fashion. As for self install or we will require a truck roll, today we roll a truck and do not charge for the cable card to be installed.

I hope I have addressed your concerns. Please feel free to contact me directly with any more questions at 919-573-XXXX.

With best regards,


XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

VP of Customer Care
Time Warner Cable
Raleigh Division

As for self install or we will require a truck roll, today we roll a truck and do not charge for the cable card to be installed.
What happened to the $42.95 fee? Are all CableCards installed for free now?

All,

I have been follwing the Raleigh TWC cable card fiasco on both Tivocommunity and engadget.

I am a Charlotte Time Warner analog customer who is thinking about upgrading to a HDTV, but am leery of using the SA 8300. I know someone who has had to replace his SA 8300 6 times!

Anyways, I had planned on getting a TiVo Series 3 when it is released, but Time Warner cable is implmenting something called Switched Digital Video down the road in Columbia, SC that makes CableCards obsolete.

Time Warner's rationale is that it frees bandwidth, and I have read on this forum that Charlotte TWC is maxed out, but I have noticed the addition of analog channels in the past year. Discovery Health for example has been added as well as a few others. TWC could have added 3 HD channels instead of Discovery Health.

I have posted an open letter to Diana at TWC Columbia, who is a frequent poster here at avsforums, regarding SDV that you can read by following the link below. Unfortunately she has not responded, but I thought readers here might be interested since the CTO of TWC said he wants to roll out SDV everywhere.

If you were planning on getting a TiVo Series 3 or a Windows Vista HTPC with CableCard, SDV is bad news.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7956765&&#post7956765

I started a new thread in HDTV Programming titled "Time Warner vs. NFL Network" for obvious reasons.

Exxon/Mobil just posted the second largest quarterly profit in cooperate history, exceeded only by their own fourth quarter profit from last year. Just wanted to pass that on, since we're talking about "great companies".

The oil industry never absorbs increased costs, they merely inflate the retail price by the increased cost plus a "little for the kitty". Ain't the free marketplace great.
Look at the Oil Company, Look at the Oil Company !!
Why am I talking about an Oil Company ?
CUCUMBER !!!!
It don't make sense. It just don't make sense.

This must be a variation of the "Look at the Monkey Defense".

Look at the Oil Company, Look at the Oil Company !!
Why am I talking about an Oil Company ?
CUCUMBER !!!!
It don't make sense. It just don't make sense.

This must be a variation of the "Look at the Monkey Defense".

Just an analogy about businesses "absorbing" increases in costs. Perhaps as a short term marketing strategy, but not a smart long term business strategy. That's all I was trying to say.

Did anybody else notice that the low power Home Shopping Network affiliate on channel 58 has been stuck on the same frame for almost two months now??? Does anybody care??? Does anybody even know that there are a half a dozen useless lowpower stations in the market that use DirecTV receivers to feed their transmitters??? Didn't think so.

Did anybody else notice that the low power Home Shopping Network affiliate on channel 58 has been stuck on the same frame for almost two months now??? Does anybody care??? Does anybody even know that there are a half a dozen useless lowpower stations in the market that use DirecTV receivers to feed their transmitters??? Didn't think so.

That confirms that the NFL spokeman's comment about "12 shopping channels and 50 channels no one cares about ... yet they don't have room for the most popular sport in the world". Almost all of TWCs digital tier of channels are worthless. Add to that the 5 shopping channels, numerous religious channels, an ever growing number of foreign speaking channels (no offense our non-English speaking friends), and other worthless dribble--- and, you wonder why so many are pissed that they never add quality programming? Especially, while ALL (satellite and other cable providers) modify their line-ups as their customers demand.

I started a new thread in HDTV Programming titled "Time Warner vs. NFL Network" for obvious reasons.

I envision 1 of 2 possible scenarios:

1. TWC eventually signs and delivers the NFL Network. Whether the NFL's marketing tactics influences that will be a matter of opinion.

2. Dressler and the other suits at TWC dig in their stilleto heals and continue with their current stance that the NFL is charging too much and resisting the NFL's insistance on a basic digital channel position (vs. being relagated to a sports tier). In fact, the upcoming marketing blitz may even embolden him to refuse a carriage agreement ... all the while, not caring about the effect on subscriber count.

I know, I know ... last year TWC saw a marked increase in total subscriber count. And, this year, they will as well as they absorb much of Adelphia. However, those increases are not by choice, as we know. They are customers who default to the local franchised cable system. Now that TWC is being exposed on a national forum, lets see how many subscribers get their head out of the sand, and act accordingly.

Should be interesting.

I envision 1 of 2 possible scenarios:

1. TWC eventually signs and delivers the NFL Network. Whether the NFL's marketing tactics influences that will be a matter of opinion.

2. Dressler and the other suits at TWC dig in their stilleto heals and continue with their current stance that the NFL is charging too much and resisting the NFL's insistance on a basic digital channel position (vs. being relagated to a sports tier). In fact, the upcoming marketing blitz may even embolden him to refuse a carriage agreement ... all the while, not caring about the effect on subscriber count.

I know, I know ... last year TWC saw a marked increase in total subscriber count. And, this year, they will as well as they absorb much of Adelphia. However, those increases are not by choice, as we know. They are customers who default to the local franchised cable system. Now that TWC is being exposed on a national forum, lets see how many subscribers get their head out of the sand, and act accordingly.

Should be interesting.

FYI:

cpanther95 renamed the thread "NFL Network vs. Cable Holdouts". We need to continue this discussion there.

FYI:

cpanther95 renamed the thread "NFL Network vs. Cable Holdouts". We need to continue this discussion there.

Cool. BTW ... Buffalo Adelphia customers (soon-to-be NFL Network-less) are extremely pissed that TWC will immediately pull the NFL Network, ESPN2HD, ESPNU, etc. when they make the switch (within 30 days). The local papers have written articles ... Buffalo is a football-crazy, very hearty place. I don't think they'll sit back and take it like most of TWC subs after beating our heads against the walls.

Just an analogy about businesses "absorbing" increases in costs. Perhaps as a short term marketing strategy, but not a smart long term business strategy. That's all I was trying to say.
Just your way of avoiding answering the question. ;)

The question is not a "DISH vs TWC" or "NFL vs TWC"...
I just want to know why TWC can't add a channel "ESPN2-HD", "NFL-HD" or any other for that matter, without making their customers absorb the cost.
Comparing apples to apples, How can DISH add 5-7 channels without raising rates (and still remain cheaper than TWC with more channels) ? But since TWC can't get a "sweet-heart deal" on a channel in your opinion, they can't add it. :(
What makes this even more ludicrous is the fact that TWC has other revenue streams (RR, VOIP) to absorb peaked cost, where there SAT counterparts do not.

Are you not out of TWC Kool-Aid by now ? :)

Just your way of avoiding answering the question. ;)

The question is not a "DISH vs TWC" or "NFL vs TWC"...
I just want to know why TWC can't add a channel "ESPN2-HD", "NFL-HD" or any other for that matter, without making their customers absorb the cost.
Comparing apples to apples, How can DISH add 5-7 channels without raising rates (and still remain cheaper than TWC with more channels) ? But since TWC can't get a "sweet-heart deal" on a channel in your opinion, they can't add it. :(
What makes this even more ludicrous is the fact that TWC has other revenue streams (RR, VOIP) to absorb peaked cost, where there SAT counterparts do not.

Are you not out of TWC Kool-Aid by now ? :)

Questions for you:

1. How is the Dish HD PQ vs. TWC HD?
2. Does Dish deliver HD locals (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC) to you without an OTA antenna?
3. Did you have to buy the DVR and/or HD box(es) (if they are separate)?
4. Did you have to comitt to a contract?

I'm seriously considering visiting my local Radio Shack and dropping TWC once and for all.

Anybody using a Cablecard? I had one installed today. I was totally shocked when the installer told me that I couldnt get the HD Suite (INHD, HDNET, ESPN etc) with the Cablecard... This makes no sense. Can anybody verify this as true?

I'm seriously considering visiting my local Radio Shack and dropping TWC once and for all.
Thats what I did. They will get the message if enough people drop them.

Anybody using a Cablecard? I had one installed today. I was totally shocked when the installer told me that I couldnt get the HD Tier (INHD, HDNET, ESPN etc) with the Cablecard... This makes no sense. Can anybody verify this as true?

I get all of the HD Tier with my CableCard. I have TWC in Cary. The installer is full of it. The CC is specifically what is needed to access these channels.

I've had three TWC techs bring out 5 different cablecards. The first one caused major tuner problems. Three others didn't work at all. A 5th card seems to have resolved my original tuner problems.

Each of the three TWC employees (or contractors) that came to "install" the CableCard were extremely ignorant on what a CC was.

The first CC that was installed, and that caused problems, had on close inspection two creases, or small dents in the sheet metal of the card. Also the plastic around one of the female pin holes on the CC was slightly deformed and concerned me that my TV's male pin would be bent.

When I pointed that out to the TWC tech he said "yah I guess it looks a little beat up". I said you should not use that card in anyone else's TV. He said "sure" and left. I'm sure some other poor slob out there will be getting that card installed someday.

Thats what I did. They will get the message if enough people drop them.

Same questions for you, then:

1. How is the Dish HD PQ vs. TWC HD?
2. Does Dish deliver HD locals (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC) to you without an OTA antenna?
3. Did you have to buy the DVR and/or HD box(es) (if they are separate)?
4. Did you have to comitt to a contract?

I get all of the HD Tier with my CableCard. I have TWC in Cary. The installer is full of it. The CC is specifically what is needed to access these channels.

I've had three TWC techs bring out 5 different cablecards. The first one caused major tuner problems. Three others didn't work at all. A 5th card seems to have resolved my original tuner problems.

Each of the three TWC employees (or contractors) that came to "install" the CableCard were extremely ignorant on what a CC was.

The first CC that was installed, and that caused problems, had on close inspection two creases, or small dents in the sheet metal of the card. Also the plastic around one of the female pin holes on the CC was slightly deformed and concerned me that my TV's male pin would be bent.

When I pointed that out to the TWC tech he said "yah I guess it looks a little beat up". I said you should not use that card in anyone else's TV. He said "sure" and left. I'm sure some other poor slob out there will be getting that card installed someday.

Interesting..... I figured as much. The installer tried several times to get mine to work. I got in the middle and found that he wasnt seating the card in the slot. I jumped in, plugged it in properly and it 'came right up'. So you are getting HDNet, INHD, ESPN HD etc with Cablecard just fine.. Right? HDSuite was really the name I should have used instead of HD Tier so just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

Ive sent a note to their customer service. Hopefully they will enable my HD Tier soon.

Glad to hear that its BS. I intend to get a Series 3 Tivo when they come out and not getting HDSuite would have been a big problem.

Anybody know if the TWC SA 3250HD STB has an active DVI output? What is the current lineup of STB's (not DVR's) with an active DVI or preferabally HDMI?

Thanks

Yes, my CC lets me watch any high def channel in TWC's 200 channel range including HDNet, INHD, ESPN HD, Discover HD. The picture quality is beuatiful, and the convenince of the CC is great (I hate STB).

Four weeks ago I purchased a Pio 5070HD, which has dual tuners and CC support. I specifically wanted the CC feature because previous STB's from TWC of Cary had dismal SD picture quality.

It isn't the perfect solution, but I much prefer my CC over the STB b.s. Considering I paid a bit of a premium for the Pio and it's built in tuners, I would return the set if the CableCard setup didn't work as advertized.

Ultimately if the CC doesn't work I'll buy a HD monitor, save a bit of money and deal with the STB.


Interesting..... I figured as much. The installer tried several times to get mine to work. I got in the middle and found that he wasnt seating the card in the slot. I jumped in, plugged it in properly and it 'came right up'. So you are getting HDNet, INHD, ESPN HD etc with Cablecard just fine.. Right? HDSuite was really the name I should have used instead of HD Tier so just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

Ive sent a note to their customer service. Hopefully they will enable my HD Tier soon.

Glad to hear that its BS. I intend to get a Series 3 Tivo when they come out and not getting HDSuite would have been a big problem.

Questions for you:

1. How is the Dish HD PQ vs. TWC HD?
I can't tell the difference in PQ and I have a 62" DLP. If you have a postage size plasma 720p and 1080p would look the same.


2. Does Dish deliver HD locals (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC) to you without an OTA antenna?
I get them OTA +WB-HD. The HD-Locals are up there on 118.7 being tested so expect an anouncement soon from DISH about the Raleigh area. DISH recently started moving internationals to 118.7 so I don't know if the delay for Raliegh is do to jockying of channels and our locals will move to a different location or not. Anyway the next market to launch is us.


3. Did you have to buy the DVR and/or HD box(es) (if they are separate)?
You will have to pay $199 lease fee to get the vip622 HD-DVR. I got a 625 SD-DVR for free. Both dual-tuner \ dual-location feature rich receivers)


4. Did you have to comitt to a contract?
18 months for me.
The way I look at the lease fee or commitment is that I could buy a TIVO for more and be happy to get a couple to three years of use out of it before it's obsolete. This way DISH will replace it for free if needed for as long as I own it. TIVO won't do that. And as long as I stay with DISH getting all their HD channels why do I care if their is a contract. You have 30 days to cancel free of charge if you don't like it anyway.

If you use this code you get 3 months of STARZ +STARZ-HD and get me $50 off my bill. :)
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Same questions for you, then:

1. How is the Dish HD PQ vs. TWC HD?
2. Does Dish deliver HD locals (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC) to you without an OTA antenna?
3. Did you have to buy the DVR and/or HD box(es) (if they are separate)?
4. Did you have to comitt to a contract?

I dont have Dish. I have just had enough of them all to be honest. We are moving back to Jersey in a few months so we arent really watching much TV these days.

Yes, my CC lets me watch any high def channel in TWC's 200 channel range including HDNet, INHD, ESPN HD, Discover HD. The picture quality is beuatiful, and the convenince of the CC is great (I hate STB).

Four weeks ago I purchased a Pio 5070HD, which has dual tuners and CC support. I specifically wanted the CC feature because previous STB's from TWC of Cary had dismal SD picture quality.

It isn't the perfect solution, but I much prefer my CC over the STB b.s. Considering I paid a bit of a premium for the Pio and it's built in tuners, I would return the set if the CableCard setup didn't work as advertized.

Ultimately if the CC doesn't work I'll buy a HD monitor, save a bit of money and deal with the STB.

Another thing I noticed with Cablecard is that the low channels are NOT the digital simulcast versions but are actually the analog versions. I have relatively low signal in my current config (threw in a splitter to just get it working) and I see analog 'snow' and interference 'lines' on the very low numbered channels. If they were the digital versions, Id expect pixilation and dropout.. not snow.

HDTV-NUT ,

How did you decide to move your TV?

-DonB2

Another thing I noticed with Cablecard is that the low channels are NOT the digital simulcast versions but are actually the analog versions. I have relatively low signal in my current config (threw in a splitter to just get it working) and I see analog 'snow' and interference 'lines' on the very low numbered channels. If they were the digital versions, Id expect pixilation and dropout.. not snow.

When the TWC tech comes back out to fix your CC see if they can improve the signal strength. A very helpful TWC tech did that for me, which improved my analog channels picture quality.

Interestingly enough I tend to watch the analog channel equivalents for NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX, unless there is a true HD broadcast (such the Tonight Show which is spectacular looking in HD). However I get better picture quality (although softer) with broadcasts like the nightly news on NBC, CBS, etc. For example on the HD NBC channel (217), you can't use the Cinema screen size (I have a Pio 5070HD). So you either have to accept the black bars in 4:3 format, stretch the image with the Wide mode screen size which horribly distorts the picture... or believe it or not watch NBC on channel 7 and use the Cinema screen size. I prefer watching channel 7.

Hope that made sense :-)

When the TWC tech comes back out to fix your CC see if they can improve the signal strength. A very helpful TWC tech did that for me, which improved my analog channels picture quality.

Interestingly enough I tend to watch the analog channel equivalents for NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX, unless there is a true HD broadcast (such the Tonight Show which is spectacular looking in HD). However I get better picture quality (although softer) with broadcasts like the nightly news on NBC, CBS, etc. For example on the HD NBC channel (217), you can't use the Cinema screen size. So you either have to accept the black bards in 4:3 format, stretch the image with the Wide mode screen size which horribly distorts the picture... or believe it or not watch NBC on channel 7 and use the Cinema screen size. I prefer watching channel 7.

Hope that made sense :-)

Do you know what he did to improve yours? I got a response from TWC that HD Suite had now been added to CC. I will have to verify when I get home.

He tested the signal strength of the TWC feed to my house. It was very strong.

He then tested the Cat 6 cable running from the TWC box on my house to the the end point that connects to my TV. Even though it was a single lenght of cable with no splices, apparently a connector wasn't crimped well and was actually losing signal strength. He replaced the screw connectors on both ends of the cable feeding my TV and that improved the signal strength.

One other thing to check is if there are multiple splitters between your TV and where the cable enters your house. Previous owners of my house apparently didn't understand that splitters cause a decrease in signal strength each time they are used. There were three cascading splitters in my attic, and one in my basement.

So I eliminated all but one "T" (one input to two outputs) splitter. One of the output lines goes directly to my TV. The other line feeds my Roadrunner and two small TVs.

Also check to make sure you have Cat 6 cable. That is apparently what is recommended for best shielding from interference. I was able to buy a roll at my local Lowes.

With that said the SD image quality on my Pio 5070HD is okay. Some channels are great others, like Comedy Central is not the best. As many people testify it is hit and miss on the SD channels.

He tested the signal strength of the TWC feed to my house. It was very strong.

He then tested the Cat 6 cable running from the TWC box on my house to the the end point that connects to my TV. Even though it was a single lenght of cable with no splices, apparently a connector wasn't crimped well and was actually losing signal strength. He replaced the screw connectors on both ends of the cable feeding my TV and that improved the signal strength.

One other thing to check is if there are multiple splitters between your TV and where the cable enters your house. Previous owners of my house apparently didn't understand that splitters cause a decrease in signal strength each time they are used. There were three cascading splitters in my attic, and one in my basement.

So I eliminated all but one "T" (one input to two outputs) splitter. One of the output lines goes directly to my TV. The other line feeds my Roadrunner and two small TVs.

Also check to make sure you have Cat 6 cable. That is apparently what is recommended for best shielding from interference. I was able to buy a roll at my local Lowes.

With that said the SD image quality on my Pio 5070HD is okay. Some channels are great others, like Comedy Central is not the best. As many people testify it is hit and miss on the SD channels.

Thanks!... My HD Suite is now up and running!... My RG6 is all homerunned with a distribution amp in the cable box on the side of the house.

HDTV-NUT ,

How did you decide to move your TV?

-DonB2
Actually I have decided to sell it. I put it up on Craigslist. Samsung HLR-6178, Matching TV stand, and Harmony Remote for $2700. Bought it all less then a year ago for $4500. Kinda sucks but I will have no room for it when we move back to jersey. If anyone is interested, let me know.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/188031885.html

Also check to make sure you have Cat 6 cable. That is apparently what is recommended for best shielding from interference. I was able to buy a roll at my local Lowes.I think what you mean is RG-6 which is coaxial cable. It is much better shielded and has better conductivity than it's whimpy little sister, RG-59.

Cat 6 is a cable made of 4 twisted pairs that is generally tipped with an RJ-45 connector and used in network data applications (ethernet).

Cable operators have balked at NFL Network’s asking price, which is between 85 cents and 95 cents a month per subscriber for expanded basic carriage, which is where the network wants to be. Cable operators that already carry the channel on a digital tier will have to pay a surcharge of about $2 a month per subscriber, on top of the 25 cent to 35 cent license fee they are already paying, to have access to the eight regular season games, cable sources said.

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.feature&featureId=1974

I know cablecos are just big piles of money and should just absorb this <sarc>, but it offers a little insight.

Time Warner Response to NFL Network:

http://www.nflgetreal.com/

HDTV-NUT.

Sorry you have to sell it and sorry you are moving. I let a few friends know about your ad.

Raleigh is certainly different from Upstate NY where I am from and I can't image coming down here from Jersey like you did. BTW the travel section of the N and O last Sunday had a several page article about visiting my home town. Go figure.

-DonB2

Time Warner Response to NFL Network:

http://www.nflgetreal.com/

Here is my take on a couple of TWC's statements:

TWC QUOTE ="We’re concerned that the NFL’s rising costs make it unaffordable. They cannot control their costs and they stick fans with the tab. They even want non–fans to pay for NFL Network."

This is again where TWC has to pass on every fee to the customer instead absorbing the cost with their RECORD PROFITS.

TWC QUOTE ="Our experience and customer research tells us that the best way to do this is to place the NFL Network in a sports package. Customers who are sports fans like the convenience‚ the focus the consistency and the value offered by our sports package. "

Create a Sports Package, move all the sports channels (ESPNs, Regional Sports) into it, price it so it pays for it self +some and keep the Teir pricing the same; Mo' Money, Mo' Money, Mo'money !!!!

Here is my take on a couple of TWC's statements:

TWC QUOTE ="We’re concerned that the NFL’s rising costs make it unaffordable. They cannot control their costs and they stick fans with the tab. They even want non–fans to pay for NFL Network."

This is again where TWC has to pass on every fee to the customer instead absorbing the cost with their RECORD PROFITS.

TWC QUOTE ="Our experience and customer research tells us that the best way to do this is to place the NFL Network in a sports package. Customers who are sports fans like the convenience‚ the focus the consistency and the value offered by our sports package. "

Create a Sports Package, move all the sports channels (ESPNs, Regional Sports) into it, price it so it pays for it self +some and keep the Teir pricing the same; Mo' Money, Mo' Money, Mo'money !!!!

I created a thread "NFL Network vs Cable Holdouts" under HDTV programming to prevent the Raleigh thread from getting hijacked. See you there. :D

After realizing that my Cablecard was tuning the analog low channels instead of the digital simulcast low channels I had a hunch.... could the simulcast be done via SDV or similar means that requires a 2way connection and thus not cablecard capable.... So I tuned several of the lower channels and then popped into the diag page and noted the frequency the tuner was set to... Interesting

3 549Mhz
4 615Mhz
6 549Mhz
8 615Mhz
9 615Mhz
10 615Mhz
12 723Mhz
13 549Mhz
25 549Mhz
26 549Mhz
77 723Mhz

So if the frequency display is correct.. it seems that some sort of SDV scheme is in play here...

Comments?

Another thing I noticed with Cablecard is that the low channels are NOT the digital simulcast versions but are actually the analog versions. I have relatively low signal in my current config (threw in a splitter to just get it working) and I see analog 'snow' and interference 'lines' on the very low numbered channels. If they were the digital versions, Id expect pixilation and dropout.. not snow.


After realizing that my Cablecard was tuning the analog low channels instead of the digital simulcast low channels I had a hunch.... could the simulcast be done via SDV or similar means that requires a 2way connection and thus not cablecard capable.... So I tuned several of the lower channels and then popped into the diag page and noted the frequency the tuner was set to... Interesting

3 549Mhz
4 615Mhz
6 549Mhz
8 615Mhz
9 615Mhz
10 615Mhz
12 723Mhz
13 549Mhz
25 549Mhz
26 549Mhz
77 723Mhz

So if the frequency display is correct.. it seems that some sort of SDV scheme is in play here...

Comments?
You have just confirmed that you are indeed watching DIGITAL SIMULCAST (and NOT SDV) for Basic/Extended channels.
Note that several channels are sharing the same digital QAM carrier frequency. [Digital Simulcast replicates the analog channels as digital multiplexed QAM carriers.]

Since you can view them with your CableCARD set, clearly they are NOT SDV. SDV channels will not work with CableCARD because there is no reverse path for your HDTV to tell the local node which channel you want to watch. The QAM frequency assignments for SDV channels can also be expected to jump around as they are enabled and disabled on the shared QAM carriers. And finally, SDV is intended for the lesser watched channels, such as HD, Hispanic and Sports Tiers. The most frequently watched channels would be given static non-SDV assignments.

It appears that your HDTV is finding the "virtual" channel number assignments for the Digital Simulcast channels, which seems to be pre-empting the display of the analog counterpart....unless you can figure a way for your HDTV to tune to the analog channel.
If you like, you could try an experiment and temporarily remove the CableCARD and rescan. Your HDTV should no longer find the Digital Simulcast channels since they are presumably encrypted--and will now find the ANALOG Basic/Extended channels in their usual positions.

If your set has a second tuner, you could connect it to Cable (via an RF Splitter) and use it to tune the ANALOG Basic/Extended channels.....you may find that this provides better PQ than the Digital Simulcast version.

=================================================
1. If the signal provided to your Cable Headend ORIGINATED as a digital signal and has been distributed to your STB/DVR via an ALL DIGITAL path, then the only D/A conversion is when it is converted to Component Video (and none if HDMI/DVI). Obviously, this would be a significant improvement over the old Analog feeds.
[Many formerly analog channels on C-Band satellites have converted to digital feeds--and some local stations are providing digital feeds for both SD and HD via cable (e.g. fibre-optic) interconnect.]

2. However, many (most?) Basic/Extended channels are still being ORIGINATED as an analog signal, that must be digitized at the headend for distribution to your STB/DVR. This additional conversion can degrade the signal compared to watching the ANALOG feed....esp. if the Analog signal was junk prior to digitization....resulting in poorly digitized junk....

3. The cable systems intend to digitize ALL of the Analog channels for distribution via the Digital Simulcast QAM carriers and then convert it back to Analog at the local node for distribution to your home. Since this entails an A/D conversion at the headend, a D/A conversion at the local node and a final A/D conversion in your HDTV for display, the overall PQ could be degraded compared to the older ALL ANALOG feed. Hence the reconsituted Analog channel may or may not be better than the Digital Simulcast channel......

4. Of course, an ALL ANALOG feed undergoes accumulative degradation at every point from origination to your house, so YMMV....

Confused??? Welcome to the brave new world of digital signal processing.....

holl_ands,

I think he used the cable box to get those frequencies (which gets the simulcasts) and not his tv and the CC.

holl_ands,

I think he used the cable box to get those frequencies (which gets the simulcasts) and not his tv and the CC.

Correct.... im using the cablebox to do the exercise... The cablecard tunes the analog versions.

HDTV-NUT.

Sorry you have to sell it and sorry you are moving. I let a few friends know about your ad.

Raleigh is certainly different from Upstate NY where I am from and I can't image coming down here from Jersey like you did. BTW the travel section of the N and O last Sunday had a several page article about visiting my home town. Go figure.

-DonB2

Ya, Raleigh is a very nice place and I do not put it down in any way. Its just very different then Jersey and its hard to get used too. I think im a little homesick also.

Anyway, thanks for letting others know about the add. Appreciate it. :)

I created a thread "NFL Network vs Cable Holdouts" under HDTV programming to prevent the Raleigh thread from getting hijacked. See you there. :D
how about a link for the lazy? might actually encourage people to go there too :)

NBC17ENG,

Are there any plans to disable the sub-channels this year during SNF?

Thanks.

how about a link for the lazy? might actually encourage people to go there too :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704702

NBC17ENG,

Are there any plans to disable the sub-channels this year during SNF?

Thanks.
excellent question

NBC17ENG,

Are there any plans to disable the sub-channels this year during SNF?

Thanks.

I did a quick search and note that he hasn't posted anything since May 10th. Previously he'd never gone more than a couple of weeks without us hearing something from him.

I'd hate it if he were gone - it's been nice knowing that there's at least one of us on the forum who's actually an active 'insider'. Maybe others are too and I don't know about it - but he's been right up front with what he does and welcomed input.

folks:

any other TWC basic cable subscribers with a QAM tuner getting any additional HD stations over the last week? how about HDTV OTA users? I'm now getting an HD sports station and a premium movie channel via qam...anybody know if this is part of a short-term promotion, an intentional addition on TW's part, a mistake, or something i'm the only one getting? It's been going on for nearly a week and i've seen no mention of it on this thread. thanks, paul

folks:

any other TWC basic cable subscribers with a QAM tuner getting any additional HD stations over the last week? how about HDTV OTA users? I'm now getting an HD sports station and a premium movie channel via qam...anybody know if this is part of a short-term promotion, an intentional addition on TW's part, a mistake, or something i'm the only one getting? It's been going on for nearly a week and i've seen no mention of it on this thread. thanks, paul

Do you have a CableCard? If not, what channels are the HD staions? ESPN-HD or InHD?

Jeff

Do you have a CableCard? If not, what channels are the HD staions? ESPN-HD or InHD?

Jeff

espn-hd and cinemax...and no, i don't use a cablecard. i have TW's basic cable through a 75 ohm connection. my TV has a qam tuner, which picks up via the cable connection ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS and Fox -- all in HD...when i first suscribed back in march, i also got discovery HD and TNT digital. but they disappeared back in April. it seems from others using OTA and/or qam TV tuners to get HDTV that TW, seemingly on a whim, provides additional unscrambled HD channels for OTA and qam tuner users (and then takes them away). it's all serendipitous. iwas wondering if other OTA or qam tuner users were aware of the new offerings and if anyone knew why they have suddenly become available (perhaps TW is offering ESPN to all for a trial in order to entice them to upgrade for the NFL season -- with Monday games now on ESPN)?

espn-hd and cinemax...and no, i don't use a cablecard. i have TW's basic cable through a 75 ohm connection. my TV has a qam tuner, which picks up via the cable connection ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS and Fox -- all in HD...when i first suscribed back in march, i also got discovery HD and TNT digital. but they disappeared back in April. it seems from others using OTA and/or qam TV tuners to get HDTV that TW, seemingly on a whim, provides additional unscrambled HD channels for OTA and qam tuner users (and then takes them away). it's all serendipitous. iwas wondering if other OTA or qam tuner users were aware of the new offerings and if anyone knew why they have suddenly become available (perhaps TW is offering ESPN to all for a trial in order to entice them to upgrade for the NFL season -- with Monday games now on ESPN)?

What are the channel numbers that you are getting ESPN-HD and Cinemax on?

paulnccu,

Do you also get PAX, WB and UPN in digital if not in HD via "TW's basic cable through a 75 ohm connection. my TV has a qam tuner" .

I would think you could since there are free OTA digital channels also.

-DONB2

espn-hd and cinemax...and no, i don't use a cablecard. i have TW's basic cable through a 75 ohm connection. my TV has a qam tuner, which picks up via the cable connection ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS and Fox -- all in HD...when i first suscribed back in march, i also got discovery HD and TNT digital. but they disappeared back in April. it seems from others using OTA and/or qam TV tuners to get HDTV that TW, seemingly on a whim, provides additional unscrambled HD channels for OTA and qam tuner users (and then takes them away). it's all serendipitous. iwas wondering if other OTA or qam tuner users were aware of the new offerings and if anyone knew why they have suddenly become available (perhaps TW is offering ESPN to all for a trial in order to entice them to upgrade for the NFL season -- with Monday games now on ESPN)?
it's almost definitely a mistake of some sort. if it were a promotion, they'd be promoting the hell out of it. if it were a permanent change, I think those with regular digital cable without the HD Suite would also now be getting ESPN-HD. It'd be nice if this were the case, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

paulnccu,

Do you also get PAX, WB and UPN in digital if not in HD via "TW's basic cable through a 75 ohm connection. my TV has a qam tuner" .

I would think you could since there are free OTA digital channels also.

-DONB2
Our local TWC affiliate does not carry these in HD at all. So even though they may be available OTA free, TWC isn't providing them to anyone and thus isn't obligated to provide them over QAM. What the FCC mandates is that they cannot charge extra for them or encrypt them. But nothing forces TWC to actually carry it.

FWIW - these should be available in digital format via the digital simulcast feature they've been using. Theoretically, a QAM tuner can tune those in.

folks:

any other TWC basic cable subscribers with a QAM tuner getting any additional HD stations over the last week? how about HDTV OTA users? I'm now getting an HD sports station and a premium movie channel via qam...anybody know if this is part of a short-term promotion, an intentional addition on TW's part, a mistake, or something i'm the only one getting? It's been going on for nearly a week and i've seen no mention of it on this thread. thanks, paul
Well, after posting it you can bet that will end real soon. :)

Well, after posting it you can bet that will end real soon. :)

folks: i tried to be a bit cryptic about the new offerings for that very reason. after a few months of living in an HDTV-basic cable-QAm world, i'm still soemwhat of a novice about what's offered (and if there's a "code" here to talk about it)...

i have TW Basic, a sony hdtv and a qam tuner. i got cable because i couldn't get OTA recpetion here in raleigh. one of you asked -- i do get the WB, PAX, and I think WGN in digital but not HD. However, that's what my TV says...i can't really see an "improved" picture on any of the stations compared to other analog network offerings.

after a scan the other night, i was getting (and still get) ESPN-HD and cinemax (though the latter is in analog form). usually, other OTA and QAM folks post when they get new channels (or lose them -- like Discovery HD and TNTHD back in march). I have seen nothing to this point from my OTA and QAM cohorts on the addition of ESPN or Cinemax. Perhaps now that I brought them up, they will indeed be gone.

Should there be a "code" among us for these types of developments to keep them on the down-low? i don't know and if it sounds stupid i apologize in advance. Still, it seems we should have a mode of communication, among OTA and QAM folks, to discuss channel changes (and whether anybody knows if they are permanent, temporary, a mistake, etc.).

I guess if my query triggers TW action I'm really the only loser here as I'm the only one who knew. I thought about the possible repercussions of bringing it up in the first place. i guess i'll live and learn, though in my defense, after making many inquiries to this forum, I thought i had something to give back. i suppose a separate OTA-QAM thread for raleigh might prove useful and if so, someone else needs to do it because i do not know how.

my guess is a scan of your channels will bring up the channels. if anybody wants the actual numbers i'm using, feel free to send me a message.

i truly hope this is helpful and triggers some positive discussions for furture situations of this type. but if this suggests i'm the same dolt you've labled me before, just say so and drop it. in other words, we can ignore this development, or try to improve on it. there's no need to dwell on it being a waste of time if that, in the end, is what it is.

thanks (again) for your patience, paul

folks: i tried to be a bit cryptic about the new offerings for that very reason. after a few months of living in an HDTV-basic cable-QAm world, i'm still soemwhat of a novice about what's offered (and if there's a "code" here to talk about it)...

i have TW Basic, a sony hdtv and a qam tuner. i got cable because i couldn't get OTA recpetion here in raleigh. one of you asked -- i do get the WB, PAX, and I think WGN in digital but not HD. However, that's what my TV says...i can't really see an "improved" picture on any of the stations compared to other analog network offerings.

after a scan the other night, i was getting (and still get) ESPN-HD and cinemax (though the latter is in analog form). usually, other OTA and QAM folks post when they get new channels (or lose them -- like Discovery HD and TNTHD back in march). I have seen nothing to this point from my OTA and QAM cohorts on the addition of ESPN or Cinemax. Perhaps now that I brought them up, they will indeed be gone.

Should there be a "code" among us for these types of developments to keep them on the down-low? i don't know and if it sounds stupid i apologize in advance. Still, it seems we should have a mode of communication, among OTA and QAM folks, to discuss channel changes (and whether anybody knows if they are permanent, temporary, a mistake, etc.).

I guess if my query triggers TW action I'm really the only loser here as I'm the only one who knew. I thought about the possible repercussions of bringing it up in the first place. i guess i'll live and learn, though in my defense, after making many inquiries to this forum, I thought i had something to give back. i suppose a separate OTA-QAM thread for raleigh might prove useful and if so, someone else needs to do it because i do not know how.

my guess is a scan of your channels will bring up the channels. if anybody wants the actual numbers i'm using, feel free to send me a message.

i truly hope this is helpful and triggers some positive discussions for furture situations of this type. but if this suggests i'm the same dolt you've labled me before, just say so and drop it. in other words, we can ignore this development, or try to improve on it. there's no need to dwell on it being a waste of time if that, in the end, is what it is.

thanks (again) for your patience, paul

Where do you live??? Even though the digital channels are the same throughout the region, their physical channels seem to vary. I have service from the Raleigh hub at home, and Garner hub service at the office. The physical channels seem to be somewhat different.

paulnccu,

I wouldn't worry about. It's no biggie. And a code language would be useless because any twc employee that may be here would learn it as quick as any others. Same with a dedicated thread. No secrets in this place, it's too public. ;)

Maybe a secret decoder ring though? J/K :D

And with all the negativity towards twc escalating and floating around lately I don't see twc being too generous at this time. OOP's, they did just give us ExpoTVonDemand though didn't they. :rolleyes:

BTW, I too pickup my PAX, UPN and WB digital simulcast on my tv's QAM tuner and they look better(cleaner) than the analog counterpart. Never spotted espnhd though but I have the HDSuite and rarely watch espn unless an indycar race is on.

psog:

i live on peace street near broughton high school in downtown raleigh. i have TW basic for 11 dollars a month. i get 5.1, 11.1, 17.1 and 50.2 as HD. And PBS on 4.0. i get the WB and I believe, UPN and WGN as "digital," but as i say, they seem no better than the analog stations as far as PQ is concerned. i aslo get some analog stations -- news14, food, travel, cartoon, public access, and the analog network stations.

as for other stations/channels, message me back if you're interested or if you do a scan and they don't come up. it seems to be a crapshoot sometimes. on my latest scan, 78.12, WB digital, did not come up (but it is there if i punch in the number).

The Business of TV
Chief of joint venture talks about taking on telco giants

By Andrew Wallenstein The Hollywood Reporter

First announced in November, the partnership between wireless company Sprint Nextel and four cable companies including Comcast and Time Warner Cable will bundle phone, cellular, Internet and TV services in several test markets this year. John Garcia, president of the joint venture, spoke with The Hollywood Reporter television features editor Andrew Wallenstein about taking on the telco giants and video's future on the wireless platform.

The Hollywood Reporter: What can you say at this point about what this new quadruple play service will look like?

John Garcia: Pilot markets we will launch later this year in Boston, Raleigh, Portland, Ore. Several others as well. We are building foundational elements to the service of the future. The very first thing we want to do is build some reliability on our system. Hooking up all these computers and building systems is quite a task. In our first markets, we want to move content and bills and customer information around. We'll begin testing a few features that will give us a sense of how customers feel about these services. High-speed Internet will come with e-mail, like Roadrunner from Time Warner, for example. You can see that e-mail service on your phone and take it with you. The portal service from your cable company will look similar on the phone, too. And there's a single voice mailbox for (both) the landline provided from cable company and (the cell phone) from Sprint wireless.

THR: What do the cable operators bring to the table in this joint venture?

Garcia: The cable companies have contracts for certain things that can be done. They don't have wireless licensing rights yet. You'll see them add wireless licensing to their agreements so that what you can buy from your cable company will be available on phones. Many of the cable companies already own local content. You'll see some of that on new phones.
You'll see a new level of content on phones. We're just in the early stages of that. We're learning how to move video around, how to transcode it for a small screen. There's lots of technology there, so we'll be learning and solidifying ways to do that, testing what customers appreciate, what they can use. There will also be some price-type of initiatives that make sense for the customer.

THR: Will content applications be constrained by the content companies?

Garcia: Another high priority for us is how we can protect the content owners' rights as we do this. There's a lot of things that have challenged fair use of content.
There's a lot of challenges with content owners and how far those rights extend. We think creating a closed system with the wireless system and cable system, we can do a better job than most at protecting artists' rights and content rights.

THR: What options do you have in terms of the different ways subscribers can get wireless content?

Garcia: You'll see us very focused on understanding consumer behavior, a lot of types of experimentation. Building ways to protect licensing rights and to find ways to make it more consumable for customers, like user interfaces, which are a big deal. If you've watched video today on cell phones, it's a user-interface nightmare. To get consumers to do something, we make customers work too hard at it.
There's thoughts that phones could have music sideloaded onto them from the computer or over the air or with movies if you had rights to that. If you paid for something on your DVR, you can put it on your phone. These are all possibilities.

THR: What sense do you have of consumer preferences in terms of video over wireless?

Garcia: What do customers want to do away from home with their entertainment? Do they want to see things live as they happen? For some, maybe. For more people, it depends on the content, if it's news, if it's sports. But we think VOD plays a much larger role. We think summarized content plays a larger role. So within the joint venture, one of the biggest priorities is to do some experimentation and learn very quickly with this new capability. We've taken the entire concept of controlling entertainment a bit further.

THR: What kind of pricing structure are you thinking about for video content?

Garcia: There's a lot of different ways people are talking about having video consumed by customers, whether by Internet or iPod or on wireless systems. It has to do with charging an incremental amount of money, transactional revenue. All of those business cases make sense on their own. But when the consumer adds it up, you can spend $25 to watch 'The Sopranos' on all the different ways they can view it. We're not sure the consumer wants to watch it that way. If they're paying the cable company customer for a piece of content and being able to view that in a variety of mediums, that may make more sense for the customer. We hope to work with content owners and artists to find a way that makes sense to protect those licensing rights with a way they can also measure usage so we can know what's going on.

THR: Who has the edge in this competition with the telcos?

Garcia: I think there are advantages on both sides. They've done the research we've done. It all says customers want something like this. They want their entertainment and communication services to make more sense of them. The cable companies have a big pipe to your house already, and they know the entertainment industry already. What the telephone companies will have is, when they have their higher-speed fiber network and once they learn the programming industry, they can do this all as one company. The challenge for us is to do this as separate companies in a joint venture.

THR: How has Sprint's relationship been with its cable partners?

Garcia: Cable companies are learning about wireless; Sprint is learning about the cable industry. Coming from the wireless industry myself for the past 20 years, I underestimated how complex the entertainment industry is, how complex licensing rights are, the complexity of the technology to do a lot of these things. The cable companies have been pleasantly surprised by the capabilities of wireless technology to date from a full-motion video standpoint, from a video compression standpoint. We've had the opportunity to learn from each other, to build competence and trust.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/th...t_id=1002915513

__________________

Well, after posting it you can bet that will end real soon. :)

I wonder if the ESPN-HD thing is an experiment on how many HD channels they can squeeze into 38Mb/s without substantial quality problems. I have 2 separate QAM channels, each with the same 4 HD channels (ESPN-HD, HDNET, Discovery-HD, and something I cannot identify). I had thought that 2 or 3 HD channels was the max you could squeeze into 38Mb/s.

Drew

I wonder if the ESPN-HD thing is an experiment on how many HD channels they can squeeze into 38Mb/s without substantial quality problems. I have 2 separate QAM channels, each with the same 4 HD channels (ESPN-HD, HDNET, Discovery-HD, and something I cannot identify). I had thought that 2 or 3 HD channels was the max you could squeeze into 38Mb/s.

Drew
I have no clue. Very interesting though. :)

I wonder if the ESPN-HD thing is an experiment on how many HD channels they can squeeze into 38Mb/s without substantial quality problems. I have 2 separate QAM channels, each with the same 4 HD channels (ESPN-HD, HDNET, Discovery-HD, and something I cannot identify). I had thought that 2 or 3 HD channels was the max you could squeeze into 38Mb/s.

Drew
HDNET is usually accompanied by HDNETMovies--is it your "unknown" or is it on a different QAM carrier???

How do you know which programs are assigned to each QAM carrier...STB Extended Diagnostics???
And if you have SDV (Switched Digital Video) at work, aren't these assignments constantly changing???

I wonder if the ESPN-HD thing is an experiment on how many HD channels they can squeeze into 38Mb/s without substantial quality problems. I have 2 separate QAM channels, each with the same 4 HD channels (ESPN-HD, HDNET, Discovery-HD, and something I cannot identify). I had thought that 2 or 3 HD channels was the max you could squeeze into 38Mb/s.

Drew
Last night I was getting these on QAM too, but only have sound on the two ESPN-HD channels. Static on the Discovery-hd and silence on the others.

Very odd, but the ESPN looked very good. Haven't checked today.. :rolleyes:

HDNET is usually accompanied by HDNETMovies--is it your "unknown" or is it on a different QAM carrier???

How do you know which programs are assigned to each QAM carrier...STB Extended Diagnostics???
And if you have SDV (Switched Digital Video) at work, aren't these assignments constantly changing???

I just read the little logos on the bottom of the screen. I do not have an STB. I don't think this is SDV, just somebody's science experiment.

One subchannel did not have a logo, and that was my unknown. I have since heard from somebody else who confirms that it is HDNETMovies.

Drew

I had to exchange a defective hdtv for a new one, and did the whole channel scan thing (QAM tuner), and I have all the channels as before plus what you guys mentioned above (ESPN-HD, etc)...but now I've lost PBS-HD?? It used to be 90.2 QAM, but now there is nothing there. 50.2 (Fox HD) is gone too (but that's happened before - it was on their end...I suspect it will come back eventually :rolleyes: ).

The tv I exchanged is the exact model, so it's not the QAM tuner...

I just wonder how many times TWC is gonna monkey around with this stuff. My wife gets tired of me doing a re-scan every few days :D

So anyway...is PBS-HD remapped to something else?

I had to exchange a defective hdtv for a new one, and did the whole channel scan thing (QAM tuner), and I have all the channels as before plus what you guys mentioned above (ESPN-HD, etc)...but now I've lost PBS-HD?? It used to be 90.2 QAM, but now there is nothing there. 50.2 (Fox HD) is gone too (but that's happened before - it was on their end...I suspect it will come back eventually :rolleyes: ).

The tv I exchanged is the exact model, so it's not the QAM tuner...

I just wonder how many times TWC is gonna monkey around with this stuff. My wife gets tired of me doing a re-scan every few days :D

So anyway...is PBS-HD remapped to something else?
ugh, how often do you have to rescan with QAM? My girlfriend will not be down with this either.

maybe this is all a ploy to deter those who want to use QAM and/or CableCard.

I had to exchange a defective hdtv for a new one, and did the whole channel scan thing (QAM tuner), and I have all the channels as before plus what you guys mentioned above (ESPN-HD, etc)...but now I've lost PBS-HD?? It used to be 90.2 QAM, but now there is nothing there. 50.2 (Fox HD) is gone too (but that's happened before - it was on their end...I suspect it will come back eventually :rolleyes: ).

The tv I exchanged is the exact model, so it's not the QAM tuner...

I just wonder how many times TWC is gonna monkey around with this stuff. My wife gets tired of me doing a re-scan every few days :D

So anyway...is PBS-HD remapped to something else?
I still have PBS-HD on 90.2 (looking at it now) and still have 50.2 (Fox-HD).

I still have PBS-HD on 90.2 (looking at it now) and still have 50.2 (Fox-HD).

There seems to a lot of variation on where different QAM receivers map channels to, at least compared to OTA ... On my TWC QAM, I have sub channels out to 124-4 and a whole bunch identified only as 0(?)??? Which makes it hard to tune to them.

Of couse, this could just be my cheap-a Vizio TV's built-in ATSC/QAM tuner support. The chinese didn't translate well.

TWC must be getting ready to re-map some stuff as two encrypted channels showed up in my QAM scan last night with cable box numbers like ESPNHD 290.

There seems to a lot of variation on where different QAM receivers map channels to, at least compared to OTA ... On my TWC QAM, I have sub channels out to 124-4 and a whole bunch identified only as 0(?)???
That's just how my Sharp LCD does. Remaps almost all QAM channels to ch.0 but not PBS-HD 90.2 and UNC-TV 90.1 while PBS-Kids and PBS-ED maps to 4.3 and 4.4, WRAL to 5.1-4, WTVD 11.1-3, WNCN 17.1-3 and WRAZ 50.2-3.

My old LG or Samsung STB did not remap anything to ch.0.

I did a Digital Channel "Add New Channels" scan last night, and here's what I got:

81 Ten new subchannels, all with the message "signal cannot be decoded"
100 (remapped from physical channel 105) NC14C-Weather
102 (remapped from physcial channel 105) WAUG
122.106 Cinemax SD
123.1 ESPNHD
123.2 HDNet (no audio)
123.3 HDNet Movies (no audio)
123.4 Discovery HD (no audio)
124.1 ESPNHD
124.2 HDNet (no audio)
124.3 HDNet Movies (no audio)
124.4 Discovery HD (no audio)

There seems to be a couple of things they're testing. First, virtual/physical channel remapping capabilities w/out CC, perhaps checking several brands, and then maybe a couple of different types of compression technologies. Notice that on 123 and 124 they are running FOUR HD signals, one 720p and three 1080i's.

I compared the pix with their normal counterparts, and they looked maybe a hair softer. But it appears there's room for at least eight more HD channels when they're ready.

There does seem to be an issue with a couple of the PBS subchannels not showing up where expected.

[B]Newbie Question RE. TWC in Durham
Hi, I just purchased a Panasonic TC32LE from Costco. I hooked it up via my standard analog TWC cable and scanned the channels. I only get WUNCHD in true (from what I can tell) HD. The other so-called HD channels, WRAL (5.1), ABC (11.1) and NBC (17.1), are look worse than my previous analog broadcasts and they are all in 4:3. I have rescanned several times and it's all the same. Does this mean that in order to get my local HD channels, I will have to upgrade my cable service to digital and purchase the HD suites?
WUNCHD looks amazing and I was hoping that I will get at least equal images from the other local HD channels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[B]Newbie Question RE. TWC in Durham
Hi, I just purchased a Panasonic TC32LE from Costco. I hooked it up via my standard analog TWC cable and scanned the channels. I only get WUNCHD in true (from what I can tell) HD. The other so-called HD channels, WRAL (5.1), ABC (11.1) and NBC (17.1), are look worse than my previous analog broadcasts and they are all in 4:3. I have rescanned several times and it's all the same. Does this mean that in order to get my local HD channels, I will have to upgrade my cable service to digital and purchase the HD suites?
WUNCHD looks amazing and I was hoping that I will get at least equal images from the other local HD channels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The networks don't have a lot of true HD content during the day. However, the later evening shows (aka Tonight Show) are usually in 1080I/720P full HD.
Its a mixed bag. ;)

I found the same thing on my set:

123.1 ESPNHD <-- DD 2.0 only (no 5.1)
123.2 HDNet (no audio - analog audio)
123.3 HDNet Movies (no audio - analog audio)
123.4 Discovery HD (no audio - analog audio)
124.1 ESPNHD <-- DD 2.0 only (no 5.1)
124.2 HDNet (no audio - analog audio)
124.3 HDNet Movies (no audio - analog audio)
124.4 Discovery HD (no audio - static audio only)

Perhaps they are testing for a new set of HD channels. We can only hope. :)

The networks don't have a lot of true HD content during the day. However, the later evening shows (aka Tonight Show) are usually in 1080I/720P full HD.
Its a mixed bag. ;)

Thanks. So does it mean that even if I had subscribed to TWC's digital cable and the HD suite, the local HD channels would not always be broadcasted in HD? Is there any way I can find out what evening programs are being broadcasted in HD? Last night, CBS's NUMB3RS seemed to be in HD, but at least until 10 p.m., all other local networks did not seem to be in HD.

I apologize at advance for these questions. I am totally new to the HD thing and wanted to decide whether I should pay extra $20 per month for my (alreday expensive) cable subscription. :) Thank you.

Thanks. So does it mean that even if I had subscribed to TWC's digital cable and the HD suite, the local HD channels would not always be broadcasted in HD? Yes, only when they broadcast HD content.
Is there any way I can find out what evening programs are being broadcasted in HD? Here is a TV listing. Search for your preferred program(s). http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/whatson.php

Thank you IamtheWolf. This is very useful. I guess I will try to enhance my DVD playing rather than worry about upgrading to HD cable for the time being.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060807/tc_nm/media_timewarner_nfl_dc_1

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060807/tc_nm/media_timewarner_nfl_dc_1

the order "inflicts severe, immediate and irreparable harm" on Time Warner Cable and its customers.

those poor customers. Getting NFL Network for an extra 30 days.

It's lucky we don't have that channel, it could be deadly. It would harm TWC reputation as well. Pretty soon we would expect them to keep up with every channel being offered elsewhere. How would they live up to that? The stress would kill them!

the order "inflicts severe, immediate and irreparable harm" on Time Warner Cable and its customers.

those poor customers. Getting NFL Network for an extra 30 days.

It's lucky we don't have that channel, it could be deadly. It would harm TWC reputation as well. Pretty soon we would expect them to keep up with every channel being offered elsewhere. How would they live up to that? The stress would kill them!
That is TOO funny. :D
If anyone finds where TWC explains the harm done, I would love to read it.
Maybe TWC should just warn their customers that it would be in their best interest not to watch the channel, instead of spending money in court. Because we all know TWC is not going to absorb the court cost, this fight is for their subscribers so look for it on your bill. :)

If anyone finds where TWC explains the harm done, I would love to read it.


I figured it out! They have to put that ticker crawl along the bottom of the screen warning about NFL Net going off the air in 30 days. TWC are obviously worried about the burn in issue on their customer's sets.

Just an off the wall question...

How much per month would the NFL Network be worth if the players went out on strike for the bulk of a season???

Just an off the wall question...

How much per month would the NFL Network be worth if the players went out on strike for the bulk of a season???
That could be said for any of the sports channels. Or any other channel for that matter, the Writers Guild, Stunt Men, or a dozen other Hollywood Unions could go on strike again.

If TWC would just absorb the cost of the channel with their record profits like DISH did, you wouldn't have anything to worry about. :)

Just an off the wall question...

How much per month would the NFL Network be worth if the players went out on strike for the bulk of a season???

well it's been around for 80 years. I'm sure they could fill it up with something.

If repeats are good enough to satisfy the customers of every other premium channel (<cough> UHD <cough>) then I'm sure they would get by.

Anyone watch the HOF football game on NBC-17 last night? What did you think of the HD quality? I thought it sucked. The picture seemed "noisy", and blocky in some cases. Definitely not "crisp" which is what I am used to with ABC's MNF from last year. I checked OTA and TWC broadcast with a QAM tuner, both looked the same. Anyone watch it from another station? If so, was it any better there? I was seriously hoping with NBC's new HD equipment installed earlier this year that the HD quality would get better ... but it wasn't very good last night. Its going to suck having to watch this all year.

Anyone watch the HOF football game on NBC-17 last night? What did you think of the HD quality? I thought it sucked. The picture seemed "noisy", and blocky in some cases. Definitely not "crisp" which is what I am used to with ABC's MNF from last year. I checked OTA and TWC broadcast with a QAM tuner, both looked the same. Anyone watch it from another station? If so, was it any better there? I was seriously hoping with NBC's new HD equipment installed earlier this year that the HD quality would get better ... but it wasn't very good last night. Its going to suck having to watch this all year.

I did not watch the game, but in general, WNCN, although they've made significant improvements, has just never quite gotten it right.

Recently it appears they have stopped "upconverting" SD content on the HD channel, and the SD content looks terrible.

I generally find that WITN is a better option for NBC HD network content, both in PQ and reliability, if you can get it of course.

That could be said for any of the sports channels. Or any other channel for that matter, the Writers Guild, Stunt Men, or a dozen other Hollywood Unions could go on strike again.

If TWC would just absorb the cost of the channel with their record profits like DISH did, you wouldn't have anything to worry about. :)

Not true. This is a high priced channel dedicated to a single league. Nothing else really compares with it.

Of course, the NFL has NEVER had the same negociation problems with the player's union that they've had with TWC. LOL !!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Not true. This is a high priced channel dedicated to a single league. Nothing else really compares with it.

Of course, the NFL has NEVER had the same negociation problems with the player's union that they've had with TWC. LOL !!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Then, Why did you bring it up ?
You have been avoiding the real issue like the plague.
How can DISH add 6-7 channels without raising rates but TWC can't ?
You have stated if TWC does add ESPN2-HD or NFL-HD that everyone will need to reach for their wallet. Why? TWC has Record Profits, less channels, and higher monthly rates. :(

Then, Why did you bring it up ?
You have been avoiding the real issue like the plague.
How can DISH add 6-7 channels without raising rates but TWC can't ?
You have stated if TWC does add ESPN2-HD or NFL-HD that everyone will need to reach for their wallet. Why? TWC has Record Profits, less channels, and higher monthly rates. :(

The real issue is that Time Warner Cable is part of a huge conglomerate with boards and stockholders to satisfy, and Dish Network is run by a cowboy who is only out to satisfy his own ego. :D :D :D

The real issue is that Time Warner Cable is part of a huge conglomerate with boards and stockholders to satisfy, and Dish Network is run by a cowboy who is only out to satisfy his own ego. :D :D :D

and Comcast is bigger cable company with a board and stockholders to satisfy and they have it. And while Dish Network might be run by a cowboy satisfying his own ego, he is also satisfying his audience with NFL Newtork and more HD channels than TWC know exist.

and Comcast is bigger cable company with a board and stockholders to satisfy and they have it. And while Dish Network might be run by a cowboy satisfying his own ego, he is also satisfying his audience with NFL Newtork and more HD channels than TWC know exist.

Only a by-product of his having to have "bragging rights".

I'll take TWC stock over Comcast stock anyday. :D :D :D

Newbie OTA HDTV guy here...

Tried to search through this thread before asking but I can't find anything that matches my problem...

When I tune to 57-2 (WB), the picture is great and I'm getting 88% on my signal meter but no sound. I'm using the ATSC tuner in my HD plasma (Panasonic TH-42PX50U). I've tried the TV speakers, digital out to my receiver, and an analog out to my receiver.

All the other channels seem to work great.

Interestingly, when I tune to 22-1, again a great picture but no sound, then after a few seconds my TV seems to puke and jump to channel 2. Seems like it's trying to redirect to 57-2 and gets lost along the way. Maybe related?

UPN 28.1 comes in great picture and sound wise (well except right now, strangely, only 30%, was 98%) so maybe when UPN and WB unite they'll use UPN's transmission methods...

Thanks for any info!

So, how will CW be carried here in the triangle? Do we already know what channel it will be, TWC carriage, HD channel, etc?

Are we in for another non HD signal on TWC with free OTA?

Francisco

I'm certain this has been asked and I promise you I have searched the forums for an answer. :) This past weekend while perusing the diagnostics menu of my 8300hd, I saw a sub-menu for multi-room dvr. Is this by ~any chance in hell~ enabled?

Newbie OTA HDTV guy here...

Tried to search through this thread before asking but I can't find anything that matches my problem...

When I tune to 57-2 (WB), the picture is great and I'm getting 88% on my signal meter but no sound. I'm using the ATSC tuner in my HD plasma (Panasonic TH-42PX50U). I've tried the TV speakers, digital out to my receiver, and an analog out to my receiver.

All the other channels seem to work great.

Interestingly, when I tune to 22-1, again a great picture but no sound, then after a few seconds my TV seems to puke and jump to channel 2. Seems like it's trying to redirect to 57-2 and gets lost along the way. Maybe related?

UPN 28.1 comes in great picture and sound wise (well except right now, strangely, only 30%, was 98%) so maybe when UPN and WB unite they'll use UPN's transmission methods...

Thanks for any info!

Never heard that problem. Did you check to see if your "SAP" selection is properly set for that channel. Some sets let you set a proprietary SAP for each channel.

Try e-mailing the chief engineer at the station. Often these problems go unreported and are not attended to until somebody shakes the tree. Recently WRAZ showed no signal OTA on some sets, they only got a couple of calls because it was OK on TWC where most people get the signal.

So, how will CW be carried here in the triangle? Do we already know what channel it will be, TWC carriage, HD channel, etc?

Are we in for another non HD signal on TWC with free OTA?

Francisco

WLFL-22 will be the CW affiliate. It (HD version) will not be on Time Warner. The owners, Sinclair, have a very hostile attitude towards cable and very few of their HD channels are carried on cable anywhere.

Never heard that problem. Did you check to see if your "SAP" selection is properly set for that channel. Some sets let you set a proprietary SAP for each channel.


I've had the same no audio problem with 22-1 on my set and in my case you were right, the TV had defaulted to the secondary audio (22-1 has 14 different audio channels?) Once I changed to the primary feed the audio came on. Woohoo, now I'll be able to see Smallville in HD this fall.


Interestingly, when I tune to 22-1, again a great picture but no sound, then after a few seconds my TV seems to puke and jump to channel 2. Seems like it's trying to redirect to 57-2 and gets lost along the way. Maybe related?


I used to have this issue as well. My set is a Panasonic 42PX60u, so its likely a tuner issue. In my case a recent firmware update fixed the channel jumping to 2. There is an update for the digital tuner in the 50u http://www.pasctraining.panasonic.com/SpecialApplications/ProductFirmwareDownloads/downloads1.asp

You'll need an SD memory card reader/writer to do the update.

So did the QAM availability of ESPN HD go away? Im still getting the video only versions of the other channels, but ESPN is black. Ashame for TWC too, as the ability to record ESPNHD onto my computer MIGHT have kept me around a little longer, but alas, my move to Dish is inevitable.

QAM- does a person who is paying for the next step above TWC basic cable get to view more QAM digital channels than someone else who only has basic TWC cable?

-DonB2

Thanks posg and mikecon54. I'll try your suggestions tonight!

QAM- does a person who is paying for the next step above TWC basic cable get to view more QAM digital channels than someone else who only has basic TWC cable?

-DonB2
No, I'm paying for TWC digtal cable,two STBs, HD suite and the premium movie channels. I also have a Vizio L37 set that has QAM but no STB connected. It only gets the same QAM channels as other TWC cable users. I wish it were no so, but a STB or cablecard is required to unencrypt the encrypted channels. :mad:

Thanks posg and mikecon54. I'll try your suggestions tonight!

Worked perfectly! Updating the TV's firmware fixed the problem with WB 22-1 jumping to channel 2, then setting the SAP manually took care of the sound issue.

Thanks again guys.

Oh well, ESPN while it lasted was good. My son and I enjoyed seeing the X games. That double back flip by Travis Pastrana was incredible.

It was only thanks to this forum that I even knew to scan and tune into ESPN as we watch so very little TV anymore. I visit this forum more times each week than the TV is on in our house especially in the summer.

But for a short while I was close to my personal ala-carte nirvana. ESPN, HDNET, DISC-HD and the locals. Of course I needed sound on hdnet & discovery and I would also want espn2 and TLC but then I would watch TV too much so it is best as it is. :)

peace

Did anyone else lose sound on all QAM channels just before midnight or was it just my local TWC head end server?

It was odd a couple of Windows (blue screen of death type) error screens were displayed in the middle of my tv screen and then all sound was gone on QAM it was still there on the NTSC input... :confused:

OK it wasn;t TWC's fault. This AM I hooked up a HD OTA antenna and still got no sound on my digital TV tuner... So lugged it back to store and exchanged it and all is well again...There must be some windows code in the firmware of my Vizio L32 TV.???? :o

QAM is strange right now at TWC Raleigh. I did a rescan again last night to try and pick up PBS-HD on 90.2. That was still a no-go although I have everything else (5.1,11.1, 17.1, 50.2) along with the no-sound HD-Discovery and HDNet. I just don't understand why PBS-HD is the only freakin' QAM station I can't get. I had it loud and clear a few days ago. I just don't get it. It's not that I watch it that much either...it's just nice to watch B-B-Q University once in awhile =)

QAM is strange right now at TWC Raleigh. I did a rescan again last night to try and pick up PBS-HD on 90.2. That was still a no-go although I have everything else (5.1,11.1, 17.1, 50.2) along with the no-sound HD-Discovery and HDNet. I just don't understand why PBS-HD is the only freakin' QAM station I can't get. I had it loud and clear a few days ago. I just don't get it. It's not that I watch it that much either...it's just nice to watch B-B-Q University once in awhile =)

Try entering 4.0

Hey guys...I've been searching for a couple of days now and I just can't find the answers I need. I just took home a new LG 32LC2D FP LCD set for my bedroom. It's my understanding that b/c this set has a clear QAM tuner, that I sould be able to pick up the unencrypted HD channels from TWC Raleigh. Correct?

The set has 2 rf inputs... one for OTA and one for cable. I connect the wall jack in my bedroom to the cable rf input and let the tv search for channels. I get the basic programming as expected but I can't find any HD channels. They should be CADTV channels correct? I get nothing. Any ideas?

posg-

I've tried 4.0 but it just goes to 4.3 (UNC-KD). I only get 4, 4.3,4.4,4.5 (no 4.0 around).

I've heard that even on cable PBS-HD can carry a weak signal? Should I scan using a weak signal option? Since my tv seems to us PSIP information to remap/sort the QAM stations, maybe it has always had trouble with PBS-HD (because it was 90.2 instead of 4.0 before?)

I'm picking up regular SD digital PBS on 89.11 as well.

It's all pretty weird here. Wonder if there there is a way to disable PSIP information and just get the straight QAM stations?

I'd appreciate any help/suggestions. It's not really a big deal since it's only one stations and I rarely watch it...but it's HD!! :)

jpcleve77-

I had an LG before trading it in for a Philips...the tuner in the LG just used a QAM tuner with the straight channel numbers (no PSIP info)...I think WRAL-HD was channel 85.1 instead of 5.1. It's kind of difficult to understand all this different QAM stuff here and there...you just have to experiement with it.

Hey guys...I've been searching for a couple of days now and I just can't find the answers I need. I just took home a new LG 32LC2D FP LCD set for my bedroom. It's my understanding that b/c this set has a clear QAM tuner, that I sould be able to pick up the unencrypted HD channels from TWC Raleigh. Correct?

The set has 2 rf inputs... one for OTA and one for cable. I connect the wall jack in my bedroom to the cable rf input and let the tv search for channels. I get the basic programming as expected but I can't find any HD channels. They should be CADTV channels correct? I get nothing. Any ideas?
Try hooking your cable to the OTA RF input, switch to the OTA input and channel scan that input to see if it picks QAM channels. On my Vizio, I have two RF inputs one for NTSC TV and another for OTA/QAM difgital TV and I have my cable split going to each input. I do get QAM channels on the OTA/QAM input. ;)

posg-

I've tried 4.0 but it just goes to 4.3 (UNC-KD). I only get 4, 4.3,4.4,4.5 (no 4.0 around).

I've heard that even on cable PBS-HD can carry a weak signal? Should I scan using a weak signal option? Since my tv seems to us PSIP information to remap/sort the QAM stations, maybe it has always had trouble with PBS-HD (because it was 90.2 instead of 4.0 before?)

I'm picking up regular SD digital PBS on 89.11 as well.

It's all pretty weird here. Wonder if there there is a way to disable PSIP information and just get the straight QAM stations?

I'd appreciate any help/suggestions. It's not really a big deal since it's only one stations and I rarely watch it...but it's HD!! :)

You might get more help from UNC than TWC. The issue is probably related to the PSIP info they insert on their fiber feeds to TWC, which are probably just "passed" unmolested. email their tech dept and explain your problem. Maybe they can help.

thanks for the posts yerp and oldemanphil...I'll check the higher channel numbers tonight. As for trying to feed the cable into the OTA rf input...I tried that last night to no avail. In fact, it only found 11 channels from the cable. I dunno.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by srteague
Thanks posg and mikecon54. I'll try your suggestions tonight!



Worked perfectly! Updating the TV's firmware fixed the problem with WB 22-1 jumping to channel 2, then setting the SAP manually took care of the sound issue.

Thanks again guys. "

Thanks srteague,

I am just trying to figure out what the future of QAM even is and how long TWC will bother to support it if indeed 99 percent of channels are encrypted and would need a card or whatever.

I was basically trying to compare QAM to pre digital cable service where as long as you paid a certain tier level with TWC you could view a large assortment of channels on any tv with a NTSC tuner in your house without needing and special TWC boxes.

-DonB2

posg - I figured as much. I'll try to email with them to see if anything can be done.

Thanks.

DonB2
Interesting questions about QAM encryption –vs- non-encrypted.

My person feeling is that non-encrypted or un-encrypted QAM is here to stay. I have no facts to back up that feeling it is just that – a feeling.

The argument to encrypt everything is most likely simplicity. It would be somewhat wise from a technical standpoint to say everything HAS to go thru the encryption algorithm. That makes for a clear and easy technical specification to enforce across the entire company and operator spectrum.

However the argument against encryption above the BASIC-tier level is equally strong. Why encrypt if cable must always carry the locals and make them available at a low monthly fee. (the basic $11 service from TWC) To keep these available to Joe-Q-Public with encryption would involve an expense on the cable operator as they would have to get the hardware or cable-card or whatever into every BASIC subscriber’s house to de-crypt. It is far easier to work with the digital STB’s, TV’s and PC solutions that can today display this data as-is than to encrypt everything and then have to deploy hardware to EVERY house. Not that the bean-counters wouldn’t like a box in every house, but that is just not a likely or enforceable solution for those that choose to utilize this basic-tier solution. (me for one)

Cable co’s will one day in the future be able to drop the NTSC feed (it is ntsc isn’t it or am I confusing that with OTA?) and when they do they will STILL need to provide that FCC mandated ‘basic-tier’ type sign-up option. At that time plain old un-encrypted QAM will be the likely vehicle. It is also MY opinion that at some point reaching the public thru whatever means necessary (emergency situations – think Hurricane season) means TWC and others make the humane decision to keep the most basic of services available to the majority of the public. Thus un-encrypted QAM.

wildbill,

Thanks for the great reply!

BTW- "NTSC feed (it is ntsc isn’t it or am I confusing that with OTA?) "

NTSC is the analog transmit channels that we have had available Over the Air as well as thru Analog cable for a long long time.

-Don

DonB2
Interesting questions about QAM encryption –vs- non-encrypted.

My person feeling is that non-encrypted or un-encrypted QAM is here to stay. I have no facts to back up that feeling it is just that – a feeling.

The argument to encrypt everything is most likely simplicity. It would be somewhat wise from a technical standpoint to say everything HAS to go thru the encryption algorithm. That makes for a clear and easy technical specification to enforce across the entire company and operator spectrum.

However the argument against encryption above the BASIC-tier level is equally strong. Why encrypt if cable must always carry the locals and make them available at a low monthly fee. (the basic $11 service from TWC) To keep these available to Joe-Q-Public with encryption would involve an expense on the cable operator as they would have to get the hardware or cable-card or whatever into every BASIC subscriber’s house to de-crypt. It is far easier to work with the digital STB’s, TV’s and PC solutions that can today display this data as-is than to encrypt everything and then have to deploy hardware to EVERY house. Not that the bean-counters wouldn’t like a box in every house, but that is just not a likely or enforceable solution for those that choose to utilize this basic-tier solution. (me for one)

Cable co’s will one day in the future be able to drop the NTSC feed (it is ntsc isn’t it or am I confusing that with OTA?) and when they do they will STILL need to provide that FCC mandated ‘basic-tier’ type sign-up option. At that time plain old un-encrypted QAM will be the likely vehicle. It is also MY opinion that at some point reaching the public thru whatever means necessary (emergency situations – think Hurricane season) means TWC and others make the humane decision to keep the most basic of services available to the majority of the public. Thus un-encrypted QAM.

Many(all?) of TWCs STBs support both QAM and QAM256 tuners. I could be way off base on this but the encrypted channels may all go through the QAM256 section. There is a lot of interesting info in the diagnostics displays of the STBs. Try tuning channel 999 on your STB in Raleigh to check your signal strength etc.

Thanks Phil
I will have to learn more about the difference between QAM and QAM256.

I unfortunately will not be able to play with a STB as I have never had one.
I am one of those $11 a month basic subscribers who get the locals via un-encrypted QAM on my Sony. That package just works for my family given our very moderate viewing habits.

Also being one to not put all my eggs in one basket, I keep an indoor Radio Shack antenna hooked up to my TV as well. Just in case I really want to see a local HD broadcast and TWC ever encrypts the entire cable lineup. :)

So yeah, my argument listed above is both my 'feeling' and my hope as I personally enjoy not having to mess with an outside antenna to enjoy the locals in HD. I know I could put up an antenna since I had one at my last house and I even wired my new house for a rooftop antenna. I just don't want to mount one when most everything I want and need is thru the basic subscription. If TWC would ever encrypt the digital channels then I would cease the basic subscription and immediately go OTA via a good rooftop antenna. Then of course I would once again have to deal with the WUNC (PBS) broadcast antenna which is inconveniently located practically 180 degrees opposite every other channel received here in Apex.

WildBill ,

With your TWC basic cable QAM do you get the multicast - subchannels that are available on the broadcast OTA -ATSC channels? For example do you get subchannels on PBS?

-DonB2

WildBill ,

With your TWC basic cable QAM do you get the multicast - subchannels that are available on the broadcast OTA -ATSC channels? For example do you get subchannels on PBS?

-DonB2

yes

Posg,

Thanks, you just reminded me that it is Direct TV which does not offer the local multicast channels.

-DonB2

Any recommendations for someone who can install my channelmaster 4227 on the roof of a 1 story home in Durham? I have everything else ready to go, just don't want to install it myself.

The Swarm ,

I sware there use to be a person on this board who did antenna installs.

So are you going with a Rotor to help catch PBS?

-DonB2

I'd planned to stay simple, possibly install a second attenae to pick up PBS. But if a rotor isn't much more expensive, sure.

The main thing is I do no want to get electrouted and/or have a patch of my roof come down in the next storm.

Any recommendations for someone who can install my channelmaster 4227 on the roof of a 1 story home in Durham? I have everything else ready to go, just don't want to install it myself.

deArgila was the guy that used to post here and do installs.... Havent heard from him in a while.

www.carolinaHT.com

Thanks. Any other leads appreciated.

yes

Yeah, what he said. :)

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/10/is-dish-network-quietly-adding-inhd-to-their-hd-line-up/

Checkmate.

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/10/is-dish-network-quietly-adding-inhd-to-their-hd-line-up/

Checkmate.
Have you kissed your DISH today ? I have. :)

FOOD-HD was uplinked too. DISH has a TECH Forum Monday night. My guess is they will be live before then, so they can gloat a bit.

Syndicated HD coming september 11th.
What is Jefferson Pilots excuse now ? :mad:

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/11/jeopardy-and-wheel-of-fortune-going-high-def-in-september/

Hi all,

I'm having issues with my TV's tuner which uses a Cablecard. I use TWC in Cary, NC.

Question specific to my setup:

- Does anyone have a new Pioneer Plasma set (e.g. 5070HD) that is configured with a CableCard?

- Do you have any problems with the tuner channel setup randomly adding channels back in to your selection?

I've had two different CableCards exhibit the same problem with my new Pioneer set. I'm trying to track down if the card is causing it, or possibly my TV.

TWC and Pio have been of no help.

Thanks.

"Pio have been of no help"

I'll second that !!!!

They have a worthless help desk.

I know more about my Pio Plasma 43 than they do. Unfortunately mine does not take cable cards as it is an older model so I can't help you.

Hey I love the Plasma but Pio help desk is the pits.

Let me know if you find a good Pio forum because I have not.

-DonB2

ESPN2-HD coming to TWC, just in time to miss the College Football Season. :confused:
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/11/time-warner-to-get-espn2hd-soon/

Yesterday and this morning when I watch NBC-17 for about 10 mins, my VIZIO 37' suddenly freeze.

I just got a VIZIO 37 10A model a few days ago. It has been no problem with PC connection (as a PC monitor) and SDTV watching. But when I watch some HDTV program (such as NBC-17 or WARL), the picture will suddenly freeze after 5 or 10 mins. After freeze, the picture was seperated by some vertical gree line. The sound is also change to a high pitch noise. I can swith off the TV and switch it on later by remote control.

It looks that this happened at certain HD channels ( I didn't notice that on some other HD channels and SD channels).

I used timewarnercable basic into two input and goes into two tuner of TV.

I am wondering it is the problem of TV's HD Tuner or it's the problem of HD signals? Whether I should go to sam's to exchange a new one.

Thank you very much for your suggestions!!

ESPN2-HD coming to TWC, just in time to miss the College Football Season. :confused:
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/11/time-warner-to-get-espn2hd-soon/

Doesn't look too official. Really nothing more than what we've heard before.. Is there an official announcement somewhere?

questchen,

Is your name a spin on "Question"?

If you are only seeing lock ups on HD I would guess it is HD reception issue. Maybe you have a bad coax cable connection coming into your QAM TV tuner.

On the other hand I had to exhange a Dell 17inch Widescreen tv monitor because of video locking up.

However it happend on normal analog tv and not HD. I figured out the Dell had a weak power supply. Once Dell listened to me and sent both a new power supply to accompany the new replacement Display, my problem went away.

BTW- It is typical with OTA HD ATSC to experience lock ups from either a weak OTA signal or from multipath Ghost problems. In the case of the ghost problems you will still see a strong ATSC signal but occasionaly your signal strength will drop off and then jump back up. During this drop down stage the tv screen will either pixelate or freeze. But,,,,, I have never experienced any audio noise I always experience audio drop out.

Again this is OTA ATSC HD and QAM may cause other issues.

-DonB2

Hey guys, my TV has a QAM ATSC HD Tuner. I have the TV plugged into the wall. Right now im picking up the following:

ABCHD 113-1

FoxHD 113-4

CBSHD 85-2

PBSHD 90-2

NBCHD 111-2

I guess those are QAM Channels? The normal call numbers such as 17-1, 50-2, etc dont seem to work.

Is there any other HD channels that I should be able to pick up such as WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT? I cant seem to pick those 2 channels up. thanks

Hey guys, my TV has a QAM ATSC HD Tuner. I have the TV plugged into the wall. Right now im picking up the following:

ABCHD 113-1

FoxHD 113-4

CBSHD 85-2

PBSHD 90-2

NBCHD 111-2

I guess those are QAM Channels? The normal call numbers such as 17-1, 50-2, etc dont seem to work.

Is there any other HD channels that I should be able to pick up such as WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT? I cant seem to pick those 2 channels up. thanks

Some TV's remap QAM channels, some don't. Apparently yours doesn't. WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are not carried. Do a search for "Sinclair" if you want the reason why. You might get HD channels on 123.1-4 and 124.1-4, but those are apparently there for testing purposes and have no audio.

Yesterday and this morning when I watch NBC-17 for about 10 mins, my VIZIO 37' suddenly freeze.

I just got a VIZIO 37 10A model a few days ago. It has been no problem with PC connection (as a PC monitor) and SDTV watching. But when I watch some HDTV program (such as NBC-17 or WARL), the picture will suddenly freeze after 5 or 10 mins. After freeze, the picture was seperated by some vertical gree line. The sound is also change to a high pitch noise. I can swith off the TV and switch it on later by remote control.

It looks that this happened at certain HD channels ( I didn't notice that on some other HD channels and SD channels).

I used timewarnercable basic into two input and goes into two tuner of TV.

I am wondering it is the problem of TV's HD Tuner or it's the problem of HD signals? Whether I should go to sam's to exchange a new one.

Thank you very much for your suggestions!!

My first L37 developed a complete loss of sound on the digital tuner after a couple of days, the NTSC tuner sound was fine. My second set is working fine after two days and I have not experienced the QAM HD lockups that you have. I have seen lockups (picture freeze) on OTA HD because of a poor antenna location/reception.
However, the set would recover without me doing anything...

It could be that your cable signal is too weak or it could be a faulty digital tuner.

Do you still get the lockups if you remove the RF splitter and just run the cable into the DTA input and leave the NTSC RF input empty? That should give you an additional 3.5db of signal strength.

If you still get lockups after removing the splitter, I would exchange it and try another L37. I have used QAM on five VIzios so far (3 L32s and 2 L37s) and I have not experienced this lockup on QAM, but I do have a strong signal.
;)

Syndicated HD coming september 11th.
What is Jefferson Pilots excuse now ? :mad:

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/11/jeopardy-and-wheel-of-fortune-going-high-def-in-september/
down with raycom/JP!!

also - about freakin' time on ESPN2-HD. I wouldn't mind the NFL network, but I'm way less concerned about that than ESPN2-HD.

down with raycom/JP!!

also - about freakin' time on ESPN2-HD. I wouldn't mind the NFL network, but I'm way less concerned about that than ESPN2-HD.
I'd hold the celebration until you actually see it on your tv. As cbordman said, this is the same thing we have been hearing for a while. I know TWC will eventually get ESPN2-HD, but without an official announcement with a hard date, it's anyones guess if it will even be before or after College Basketball.
But given the current war with NFL, I would guess sooner rather than later. TWC isn't the sharpest tool in the shed so anything is possible.

I moved up from a RS U75R to a Terrestrial Digital DB4 this weekend and still have the same signal quality (as measured by the TV tuner) as before.

For those who are doing OTA reception with an indoor/attic antenna I'm wondering what's the best signal strength you're seeing?

My zip is 27520-5539 which puts me very close to the transmitters (too close?).

My setup:
Panasonic TH42PX50
Terrestrial DB4 in the attic (moving it outside is not an option)
112' RG6

I'm actually able to aim the antenna straight out of the attic vent on the front gable of the house so I thought this would be almost as good an an outdoor mount.

My signal strengths:
4.1 - 69-70%
5.1 - 82-88%
11.1 - 88%
17.1 - 82%
22.1 - 87-88%
28.1 - 88-90%
50.1 - 87-88%


Tried a CM 7775 preamp thinking the long cable run was an issue. Actually got lower signal numbers. May try it again with a variable attenuator.

I moved up from a RS U75R to a Terrestrial Digital DB4 this weekend and still have the same signal quality (as measured by the TV tuner) as before.

For those who are doing OTA reception with an indoor/attic antenna I'm wondering what's the best signal strength you're seeing?

My zip is 27520-5539 which puts me very close to the transmitters (too close?).

My setup:
Panasonic TH42PX50
Terrestrial DB4 in the attic (moving it outside is not an option)
112' RG6

I'm actually able to aim the antenna straight out of the attic vent on the front gable of the house so I thought this would be almost as good an an outdoor mount.

My signal strengths:
4.1 - 69-70%
5.1 - 82-88%
11.1 - 88%
17.1 - 82%
22.1 - 87-88%
28.1 - 88-90%
50.1 - 87-88%


Tried a CM 7775 preamp thinking the long cable run was an issue. Actually got lower signal numbers. May try it again with a variable attenuator.

These numbers are probably more indicative of SNR (signal to noise ratio) than actually signal strength. Amplification does not improve signal to noise. It can only compensate for additional increase in SNR between the antenna and the receiver due to transmission line and splitter loss.

The best signal condition one can obtain is one that is free from multipath. Multipath increases in strong signal areas, which often times is the main cause of dropouts. A highly directional antenna is always the best solution.

For those who are doing OTA reception with an indoor/attic antenna I'm wondering what's the best signal strength you're seeing?


My zip is 27587, which is farther away than you. I have a CM 4228 (similar to a DB8) in my attic along with a small UHF antenna pointed at channel 4, and I get 5, 11, and 45 at 95% - most others are mid 80's. 17 is the only real problem - it bounces between mid 70's and low 80's - usually that is OK but it drops out in heavy rain or strong winds. I have a sony HD DVR so the numbers may not be comparable.

I tried 3 different antennas and about 10 different locations in my attic before I settled on the current location. Just because it seems like the best spot doesn't mean a different spot might be better.

It may depend on what type of siding you have. I had better luck pointing through vertical Hardy Plank siding than I did going through angled shingles.

A highly directional antenna is always the best solution.

That might help most of his problems, but it will make 4 worse since it is in a different direction. The best bet is probably to peak for 17 (assuming the others are pretty good), and then add a separate antenna pointed at 4 hooked in with a Jointenna (although I was able to do pretty well with a splitter hooked backwards).

"My zip is 27587, which is farther away than you. I have a CM 4228 (similar to a DB8) in my attic along with a small UHF antenna pointed at channel 4, and I get 5, 11, and 45 at 95% - most others are mid 80's. 17 is the only real problem - it bounces between mid 70's and low 80's - usually that is OK but it drops out in heavy rain or strong winds. I have a sony HD DVR so the numbers may not be comparable.

I tried 3 different antennas and about 10 different locations in my attic before I settled on the current location. Just because it seems like the best spot doesn't mean a different spot might be better.

It may depend on what type of siding you have. I had better luck pointing through vertical Hardy Plank siding than I did going through angled shingles. "

I am zip 27540 and get about same as above with my attic mounted 4228 AND CM BOOSTER.

I think Multipath "Ghosts" are close to the top of the list of problems with ATSC OTA.

Unlike a analog NTSC turner which will display all ghosts on your screen simultaneously an ATSC digital tuner is only capable of seeing one multipath at a time. If the multipath it sees gets weak it has to go back and reestablish "Handshake" with the signal. A user will see this manifested as 80 percent signal strength that mysteriously drops into the 40's and 50's before jumping back up to around 80percent. On the tv screen you see audio video lockups. I myself find the audio lockups to be the biggest pain.

BTW- I am told the latest generation of LG ATSC built in TV tuners are superior at handling multipath "Ghosting" issues.

-DonB2

The reason the signal levels fluctuates rapidly and drops out is that there is "dynamic" rather than "static" multipath arriving at your antenna. The multipath paths are constantly changing, wind blowing through trees is a common cause, and ocassionally a relatively strong multipath signal arrives "out of phase" with the desired signal causing "destructive interference" which can cause partial or complete cancellization of the desired signal.

Again, a highly directional antenna is the best solution, assuming of course it's pointing in the right direction. Otherwise, it can actually make matters worse. Use analog channels coming from the same transmitter site to peak the antenna.

POSG,

On another note why does analog multipath manifest itself as ghosts on a tv but you never hear more than one audio sound track signal coming over your analog tv?

I wish I could just deal with Static ghosts. Dynamic ones will require a rotator.

-DonB2

I'd hold the celebration until you actually see it on your tv. As cbordman said, this is the same thing we have been hearing for a while. I know TWC will eventually get ESPN2-HD, but without an official announcement with a hard date, it's anyones guess if it will even be before or after College Basketball.
But given the current war with NFL, I would guess sooner rather than later. TWC isn't the sharpest tool in the shed so anything is possible.
unfortunately, this is all so true :( I'm holding out hope, but not holding my breath on this one...

POSG,

On another note why does analog multipath manifest itself as ghosts on a tv but you never hear more than one audio sound track signal coming over your analog tv?

I wish I could just deal with Static ghosts. Dynamic ones will require a rotator.

-DonB2

Multipath distortion in the audio portion of an analog TV signal is exactly the same as you experience when listening to FM radio in hilly terrain or in an area with tall buildings. Just sounds like distortion. If you listen close enough to your TV you'll hear it, especially on a stereo signal.

Please confirm. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=711065

srteague ,

Two things.
1. My reception I stated as being the same as Piedogs is my winter reception. Summer reception with leaves on the trees is not as good as that.
2. Could not get ATSC PBS in at all last night about 10:30, signal strength was 50 on both my antennas for that channel. 17 was pixelating.

-Don

Since it's a little slow...

More HD shows coming

NBC's "Today" Show to go HD
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/14/nbcs-today-show-to-go-hd/

Dancing with the Stars going HDTV this season
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/15/dancing-with-the-stars-going-hdtv-this-season/

Not that I am a big fan of either show, but I like to see more and more shows going HD. I think that it makes a difference with ratings too, so other shows will have to go HD to compete.

I am still amazed that all commercials are not already in HD.

-DonB2

I am still amazed that all commercials are not already in HD.

-DonB2
$$$

I am still amazed that all commercials are not already in HD.

-DonB2

I am too. At this point HD commercials really grab my attention. Often they're better than the program. :D :D :D

"$$$"

What does an HD camera cost these days?

-Donb2

"$$$"

What does an HD camera cost these days?

-Donb2

Much less than the cost of running a commercial ONE time on a national network.

cablecarders:

i have a chance to sign up for TWC's lowest-tiered digital cable service for 45 dollars a month. if i do so, and have it hooked up with a cablecard, will i receive any HD broadcasts (such as WRAL, PBS and other networks)? assuming i get the networks in HD, will i receive any more HD stations than the 5 usual network suspects? NOTE: I can't seem to get a straight answer from TW on either of these two questions

finally, if i have a QAM tuner and two antenna inputs, can i ask TW to split the cable to the cablecard slot and one of the antenna inputs? (that, of course, would allow me to get digital tier cable through the card while preserving, at least theoretically, my basic cable HDTV-QAM offerings that I have now -- 5.1, 11.1, 17.1, 50.2, 4.0)?

thanks in advance for any help.

First question:

You will receive the local channels even without a cablecard. In order to get additional HD channels you will need to subscribe to the HD Suite.

Second question:

If you have an antenna input label VHF/UHF or Antenna, etc, and another labled Cable, the VHF/UHF is routed through an ATSC demodulator and uses OTA channel mapping, and the Cable is routed through the QAM demodulator and uses CATV channel mapping, so the answer is probably not.

"You will receive the local channels even without a cablecard. In order to get additional HD channels you will need to subscribe to the HD Suite."

And for a lot less than $45.00/month.

-DonB2

First question:

You will receive the local channels even without a cablecard. In order to get additional HD channels you will need to subscribe to the HD Suite.

Second question:

If you have an antenna input label VHF/UHF or Antenna, etc, and another labled Cable, the VHF/UHF is routed through an ATSC demodulator and uses OTA channel mapping, and the Cable is routed through the QAM demodulator and uses CATV channel mapping, so the answer is probably not.

sorry posg but i am baffled by both of your answers..."you will receive the local channels even without the cablecard."
what about with the cablecard? will i receive 4.0, 5.1, 11.1, 17.1, 50.2, or their equivalent numbers, as HDTV broadcasts, with my cablecard and TWC digital service? also, if there are no additional HDTV offerings on the lowest digital tier (and assuming that the 5 channels mentioned above are in HDTV under such lowest digital tier), are there stations that will come in in a "digital" signal that has improved PQ over standard analog?

as for my second question, i'll rephrase: i have a cablecard slot, a cable TV antenna connection (75-ohm) and a second antenna connection not labled for cable TV. (I currently have basic cable on the CABLE TV antenna connection and an indoor antenna on the non-cable connection). The channels on the cable hookup start with C, like C5.1, and thone channels on the non-cable connection have no C prefix, like 5.1
thus, can the TW cable be split so it goes: (1) to cablecard, and (2) to the 75-ohm Cable TV antenna connection, thus allowing me to get all the cablecard channels AND TW's basic network "OTA" offerings? or did your last answer suggest that if i hook up a cablecard i won't also be able to connect the cable to the C-antenna connection?

thanks (again), paul

"are there stations that will come in in a "digital" signal that has improved PQ over standard analog?"

Paul,

I was wondering the same thing after my post about the $45/month.
Will you at least get all the other channels like CNN, Weather, Life, AMC, TNT... in digital? Or will they be analog even with the card.

-Don

sorry posg but i am baffled by both of your answers..."you will receive the local channels even without the cablecard."
what about with the cablecard? will i receive 4.0, 5.1, 11.1, 17.1, 50.2, or their equivalent numbers, as HDTV broadcasts, with my cablecard and TWC digital service? also, if there are no additional HDTV offerings on the lowest digital tier (and assuming that the 5 channels mentioned above are in HDTV under such lowest digital tier), are there stations that will come in in a "digital" signal that has improved PQ over standard analog?

as for my second question, i'll rephrase: i have a cablecard slot, a cable TV antenna connection (75-ohm) and a second antenna connection not labled for cable TV. (I currently have basic cable on the CABLE TV antenna connection and an indoor antenna on the non-cable connection). The channels on the cable hookup start with C, like C5.1, and thone channels on the non-cable connection have no C prefix, like 5.1
thus, can the TW cable be split so it goes: (1) to cablecard, and (2) to the 75-ohm Cable TV antenna connection, thus allowing me to get all the cablecard channels AND TW's basic network "OTA" offerings? or did your last answer suggest that if i hook up a cablecard i won't also be able to connect the cable to the C-antenna connection?

thanks (again), paul

The channels you currently get without a CableCard are analog channels 2-77 plus the digital simulcast versions of most or all of the "lifeline" basic channels 2-24 (although they will show up as channels 78-122 with a decimal), plus the HD versions and sidecar channels of the local broadcast channels. They may be remapped to their virtual channel number, they may not be, depends on your set.

The CableCard will "unlock" the rest of the digital simulcast versions of channels 24-77, the digital tier channels 100-200 and any additional tiers, BUT ONLY THOSE CHANNELS WHICH YOU ACTUALLY PAY FOR. The CableCard will do nothing without a subscription.

Sounds like you have a Sony. The C channels are the ones coming through the Cable input. The one's without the C are the ones coming through the antenna input.

The CableCard works in conjuntion with signals coming through the Cable input. The other input is for broadcast reception, and will receive NTSC and ATSC channels over the air, but will not work for cable except analog channels 2-13.

Are we getting closer??? ;)

i have a cablecard slot, a cable TV antenna connection (75-ohm) and a second antenna connection not labled for cable TV. (I currently have basic cable on the CABLE TV antenna connection and an indoor antenna on the non-cable connection). The channels on the cable hookup start with C, like C5.1, and thone channels on the non-cable connection have no C prefix, like 5.1
thus, can the TW cable be split so it goes: (1) to cablecard, and (2) to the 75-ohm Cable TV antenna connection, thus allowing me to get all the cablecard channels AND TW's basic network "OTA" offerings? or did your last answer suggest that if i hook up a cablecard i won't also be able to connect the cable to the C-antenna connection?
thanks (again), paul
Yes, you could use an RF Splitter to feed your cable signal to both CABLE and ON-AIR inputs....but you would have to disconnect the OTA antenna.
But you shouldn't have to use this configuration.

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The "Digital Cable Ready" input is intended to receive all three types of signals carried on Cable: 1) ANALOG channels (under CH100), plus 2) all of the unencrypted digital QAM channels (local HD channels, plus maybe a couple others and maybe a few music channels) and finally 3) the encrypted (subscription only) digital QAM channels which require a CableCARD to decrypt.
Digital Simulcast is probably encrypted, so you should be seeing the ANALOG versions on this input instead.

The ANTENNA input is intended to receive both the ANALOG OTA channels plus the new Digital ATSC OTA channels.

Hence you could receive an Analog OTA version, a Digital OTA HD version, an Analog Cable version and a Digital Cable QAM HD version for EACH of the local broadcast channels.....plus Digital Simulcast SD version if you plug in a CableCARD.

Yes, you could use an RF Splitter to feed your cable signal to both CABLE and ON-AIR inputs....but you would have to disconnect the OTA antenna.
But you shouldn't have to use this configuration.

================================
The "Digital Cable Ready" input is intended to receive all three types of signals carried on Cable: 1) ANALOG channels (under CH100), plus 2) all of the unencrypted digital QAM channels (local HD channels, plus maybe a couple others and maybe a few music channels) and finally 3) the encrypted (subscription only) digital QAM channels which require a CableCARD to decrypt.
Digital Simulcast is probably encrypted, so you should be seeing the ANALOG versions on this input instead.
If you are NOT seeing the ANALOG channels on this input, the Sony isn't working correctly--so call their service desk--maybe the set is confused by the Digital Simulcast channels.....

Sounds like we have some model specific issues.

My Sony (XBR) has two inputs, one for cable, one for off air. It will not decode off-air signals through the cable input. It will not decode QAM signals through the antenna input. There is no switch to choose cable mode/vhf uhf mode for channel assignments. The input determines the channel map. Other models have a single "uni-sex" input that is configured in the menu.

Sounds like we have some model specific issues.

My Sony (XBR) has two inputs, one for cable, one for off air. It will not decode off-air signals through the cable input. It will not decode QAM signals through the antenna input. There is no switch to choose cable mode/vhf uhf mode for channel assignments. The input determines the channel map. Other models have a single "uni-sex" input that is configured in the menu.
My son's Sony works same way....

I deleted my "conclusion jumping" paragraph above....no need to create potential problems when there are none reported.....sorry...

The channels you currently get without a CableCard are analog channels 2-77 plus the digital simulcast versions of most or all of the "lifeline" basic channels 2-24 (although they will show up as channels 78-122 with a decimal), plus the HD versions and sidecar channels of the local broadcast channels. They may be remapped to their virtual channel number, they may not be, depends on your set.

The CableCard will "unlock" the rest of the digital simulcast versions of channels 24-77, the digital tier channels 100-200 and any additional tiers, BUT ONLY THOSE CHANNELS WHICH YOU ACTUALLY PAY FOR. The CableCard will do nothing without a subscription.

Sounds like you have a Sony. The C channels are the ones coming through the Cable input. The one's without the C are the ones coming through the antenna input.

The CableCard works in conjuntion with signals coming through the Cable input. The other input is for broadcast reception, and will receive NTSC and ATSC channels over the air, but will not work for cable except analog channels 2-13.

Are we getting closer??? ;)

Closer to answering my questions? sorry, don't mean to be difficult, but it appears not. though i am gleaning valuable, other info from your answers... :)

i'll try again -- and rephrase the queries as succinctly as possible. others feel free to chime in (to help or to heckle if need be)...

background: i have a sony XBR 960 34" tube HDTV with a qam tuner...right now, i have TW basic via a 75-ohm connecter to my cable antenna input. i am considering getting TW's lowest-tier digital cable and receiving it via my tv's cablecard slot...under such conditions, i have two questions:

(1) Regardless of what i can do WITHOUT a cablecard connection, will I get the following five stations in HDTV WITH a Cablecard connection and THROUGH such a cablecard connection -- PBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and CBS?

(2) Ignoring my non-cable antenna input entirely, can the TWC 75-ohm cable be split thusly -- (a) with one strand attaching to a cablecard and connected to the cablecard slot on my TV; and (b) with the other strand connected to the CABLE TV antenna input? (NOTE: i want to know if this is an option that would, in addition to my cablecard connection, allow me to use the 75-ohm split feed as a means to receive what i get now on TW's basic cable...why? because there are times when the basic/OTA offerings expand beyond those of higher TW tiers, such as when OTA and basic users get ESPN-HD, Cinemax, discovery, TNT, etc.)

I now also have a third question, which i think may be helpful to other TW-Basic and OTA HDTV users considering an upgrade...

(3) With a Cablecard connection to TW digital, as described above, will there be additional channels coming in in -- how best to describe? -- some mid-tier picture-quality level referred to as DIGITAL (which seems to be described in these annals as better than analog but less than HDTV)? NOTE: Suposedly, I have a few channels under my basic TW setup that are supposed to be in this digital mode, but i see no significant difference in PQ and my TV doesn't identify them differently from analog stations -- the WB at 78.12 is supposed to be one.

I thank posg in particular, and everyone else in general, for his and their patience (assuming, of course, you are still extending it to me). TW has given me confounding answers to the above question, or no answers. I was furious, but after attempting to address them here, i guess they're harder to answer than i would have thought. or i'm posing them badly...

paul

Closer to answering my questions? sorry, don't mean to be difficult, but it appears not. though i am gleaning valuable, other info from your answers... :)

i'll try again -- and rephrase the queries as succinctly as possible. others feel free to chime in (to help or to heckle if need be)...

background: i have a sony XBR 960 34" tube HDTV with a qam tuner...right now, i have TW basic via a 75-ohm connecter to my cable antenna input. i am considering getting TW's lowest-tier digital cable and receiving it via my tv's cablecard slot...under such conditions, i have two questions:

(1) Regardless of what i can do WITHOUT a cablecard connection, will I get the following five stations in HDTV WITH a Cablecard connection and THROUGH such a cablecard connection -- PBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and CBS?

(2) Ignoring my non-cable antenna input entirely, can the TWC 75-ohm cable be split thusly -- (a) with one strand attaching to a cablecard and connected to the cablecard slot on my TV; and (b) with the other strand connected to the CABLE TV antenna input? (NOTE: i want to know if this is an option that would, in addition to my cablecard connection, allow me to use the 75-ohm split feed as a means to receive what i get now on TW's basic cable...why? because there are times when the basic/OTA offerings expand beyond those of higher TW tiers, such as when OTA and basic users get ESPN-HD, Cinemax, discovery, TNT, etc.)

I now also have a third question, which i think may be helpful to other TW-Basic and OTA HDTV users considering an upgrade...

(3) With a Cablecard connection to TW digital, as described above, will there be additional channels coming in in -- how best to describe? -- some mid-tier picture-quality level referred to as DIGITAL (which seems to be described in these annals as better than analog but less than HDTV)? NOTE: Suposedly, I have a few channels under my basic TW setup that are supposed to be in this digital mode, but i see no significant difference in PQ and my TV doesn't identify them differently from analog stations -- the WB at 78.12 is supposed to be one.

I thank posg in particular, and everyone else in general, for his and their patience (assuming, of course, you are still extending it to me). TW has given me confounding answers to the above question, or no answers. I was furious, but after attempting to address them here, i guess they're harder to answer than i would have thought. or i'm posing them badly...

paul

1) You should get those five channels with or without a cablecard.

2) I'm not familiar with connecting the cable through the cable card slot. The only configuration I'm familiar with is the cablecard interfacing with signals connected to the cable input.

3) If you subscribe to any digital tier, your cablecard should decode all digital simulcast channels plus the digital tier channels you've subscribed to. If you don't subscribe to a digital tier, you'll only get digital simulcasts of channels 2-24.

There may not be a huge difference in the quality of the analog and digital simulcast channels. 78.12 is a digital simulcast channel. Compare it with WB analog down in the 2-24 range.

I'm not a CableCard advocate. I think you're better off with a HD DVR. Good luck.

PBS ATSC OTA 4.1 is coming in for me now. Not sure why it did not work at all two nights ago.

-DonB2

I'm not sure if this discussion is trying to avoid mentioning the elephant i the room or not.. but it certainly looks that way.

I think (others can confirm), that a basic cable subscriber with NO cablecard, would get the HD versions of the local channels for "free". Certainly not a feature that TWC would want to advertise. Please correct me if I am wrong.

At one point you also got TNTHD and DISCHD for free too, I am less certain that is still the case.

And I have no idea if a cablecard would restrict you from tuning any channels that you hadn't explicitly subscribed to. (the few days I spent with a cablecard 1.5 years ago were frustrating.. didn't get the guide, and the @#%@ CC wouldn't even tune to the basic level guide, but that was probably the fault of TWC for not correctly setting its list of legal channels.)

On the flip side, I thought a digital box (no DVR) was free with digital... in which case no CC needed, tho it is another component)

I don't see why you could't split the incoming coax, or at least not once the install tech left and connect one side to a standard input in which case I think you'd get what you want, tho maybe not in as simple of a way as it could be.

Mike

I'm not sure if this discussion is trying to avoid mentioning the elephant i the room or not.. but it certainly looks that way.

I think (others can confirm), that a basic cable subscriber with NO cablecard, would get the HD versions of the local channels for "free". Certainly not a feature that TWC would want to advertise. Please correct me if I am wrong.

At one point you also got TNTHD and DISCHD for free too, I am less certain that is still the case.

And I have no idea if a cablecard would restrict you from tuning any channels that you hadn't explicitly subscribed to. (the few days I spent with a cablecard 1.5 years ago were frustrating.. didn't get the guide, and the @#%@ CC wouldn't even tune to the basic level guide, but that was probably the fault of TWC for not correctly setting its list of legal channels.)

On the flip side, I thought a digital box (no DVR) was free with digital... in which case no CC needed, tho it is another component)

I don't see why you could't split the incoming coax, or at least not once the install tech left and connect one side to a standard input in which case I think you'd get what you want, tho maybe not in as simple of a way as it could be.

Mike

mike:
yes, basic cable subscribers with a QAM tuner do get the five network HDTV stations included (abc, nbc, fox, cbs, and pbs) but they are not "free" in any sense. they cost $11.45 a month plus tax. and yes, sometimes the basic TW subscribers who have TVs with a QAM tuner get some bonus time with stations like DiscoveryHD, TNTHD and even ESPNHD. However, what TW giveth, they eventually take away. Any such bonus offerings ultimately serve as little more than teasers. you certainly can't count on them being there, even on a daily basis. if they are, great, but don't count on watching the NFL game on ESPNHD next monday night as it may not be there...

i use TW basic because i couldn't find an antenna in two tries for OTA HD channels and it seemed like 12 bucks a month was fair for good reception and netwrok sports in HD. some say, though it's far from certain, that the HDTV offerings on TW basic/qam are required by the FCC rules and thus there is no need to ignore the "elephant" in the room. I am not certain whether TW is so obligated or that their offerings qualify as corporate largesse. in any event, it's not exactly a secret, at least to those on the AVS forum, other tech-savvy types, and the TW staffers who might monitor and/or help on this thread.

by the way, what does "CC" stand for?

The Elephant issue,

I guess part of the difficulty in answering paulnccu is that not everyone has the same free digital channels available from TWC. It depends on your locality within the TWC street layout and infrastructure.

In addition, what is offered for free even within a given address changes. It is like hitting a moving target, availablilty changes at the whim of TWC while they experiment, make mistakes, look at available bandwidth, decide what is considered non-crypted and so on.

It will change again for sure once TWC kisses analog goodbye and switches to all digital. They may even offer a few tier HD channels free for a month or so just as perk to get people to pay for a higher level tier.

Things are still in a state of flux. Best suggestion I could give paulnccu is to get it and give it a try for a month. If he does not like it drop back to basic.

From what I have learned on this forum TWC is good about cancelling subscriptions.

-DonB2

Much less than the cost of running a commercial ONE time on a national network.
Yep.

Just to add, with that one commercial run on a national network, they will reach a much greater audiance.

some say, though it's far from certain, that the HDTV offerings on TW basic/qam are required by the FCC rules and thus there is no need to ignore the "elephant" in the room.
Title 47, Section 76.901 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=0360e918ce561d7ba2568bea5de67d31&rgn=div8&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4.14.3.1&idno=47) states: "The basic service tier shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations provided to any subscriber ..."

In other words, if TWC provides those signals to any subscriber, then TWC must provide them to all subscribers. So either everyone gets them, or no one gets them.

Sorry if this has been answered before but I didn't see it anywhere ...

I have a friend who currently has a Plasma and standard TWC service. He would like to get the HD DVR but he doesn't want to pay the extra money for the digital tier or the HD tier (local HD channels are plenty).

What are the chances that TWC will just let him add the HD DVR? If he has to add the HD tier and the Digital tier to get the HD DVR, what would happen if he later reverted back to standard-would he be able to keep the HD DVR?

He is perfectly willing to pay the DVR fee - he just doesn't want to get soaked for the extra channels he doesn't want.

Thanks for any help and advice!

If he has to add the HD tier and the Digital tier to get the HD DVR, what would happen if he later reverted back to standard-would he be able to keep the HD DVR?
Regarding the DVR service, the TWC web site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/cable/dvr.html) states: "Digital Service required for this service."

So if you cancel the Digital Service, the DVR service will probably be cancelled as well, although it's not clear if you are required to return the DVR box, or if you can keep it but it won't play any recordings or make new recordings.