Posg,

"You do all realize that UNC moves from channel 59 to channel 25 on 2/17/09 don't you???
"

Thanks in the back of my mind I thought there was at least another issue.

I wish UNC would move from Chapel Hill xmitter to a Garner Xmitter on 2/17/09 :D

-DonB2

shholliday ,

I looked into the antenna joiner you mention awhile back and frankly I was confused on how it works. As I remember you have to adjust it for frequencies you don't want.

I ended up using a remote A/B switch with marginal success as in it has limited control range of under 100 ft and I am going thru two floors to the attic via a radio link to control it.

hbehrman,

How did you join your two antennas?

-DonB2

Sorry for the delayed response. I merely reversed a splitter since they are bi-directional.

Channel 59 will move in 2009

Yeah, I'll be able to absorb the $29.35 for the JoinTenna over the next 2.5 years.
I figure most of us will be doing some reconfiguring, settings and hardware when those switches take place.

Amplify before the JoinTenna

I did try this. I tried it both ways, but figured "before" was more appropriate.
I still got the "flucuate 59" issue, with a "before" amplify.

I might give it another try. Maybe I need some cable length between the amp and the jointenna, I was using a 6 inch piece before.

..

hbehrman ,

I tried that and had trouble with 11.1 getting too many ghosts causing it to breakup even though it had a high signal.

Maybe it worked better for you because your antennas are stacked making relative distances the same.

I may try a splitter again before I go for the joiner.

I must have ten splitters sitting around now!

DonB2

hbehrman ,

I tried that and had trouble with 11.1 getting too many ghosts causing it to breakup even though it had a high signal.

Maybe it worked better for you because your antennas are stacked making relative distances the same.

I may try a splitter again before I go for the joiner.

I must have ten splitters sitting around now!

DonB2

You might also want to try Radio Shacks variable attenuator to try adjust the signal strengths from one or both antennas before or after combining the signal. You might just have too much power coming from that signal source. Too much power is not necessarily a good thing. For me it was trial and error, reading the antenna FAQ, and trying to do the cheapest solution. I considered a join-tenna, but I decided to try the latter method first and lucked out. One correction: the preamp I am using is the CM 7777 not the 7775 (and it is on the 3018 pointing to WUNC).

You don't pick "channels 50-69", you pick a single channel. (Just to be clear).


So its a
0585-3 ......... Channel 59.

..

Just curious - did you have any issues (or experience degraded signal strength) on receiving 22.1 after installing the jointenna?

22.1 is the closest local station (on frequency 57) to WUNC (59). The jointennas supposedly attenuate a couple frequencies +/- 2 from the joining/selected channel. (ie, 59 is completely attenuated, as are 58 and 60 to a degree, and finally 57 and 61 to a degree, on the "all" input)

[ For me, the jointenna did result in 22.1 being much more spotty. I haven't experiemented with putting the amplifier first in the mix yet though, maybe that will help]

greenehouse,

How come 22 would not come thru strong on the "All" side of the Join antennae?


Everyone else and Greenhouse,

BTW- I connected a diplexer this morning replacing my A/B switch.

Results were unsatisfactory. I lost 22.1 altogether and 5.1 keeps going in and out. 5.1 is acting similiar to what 11.1 does off the a/b switch.

I switched to analog NTSC OTA and noticed a lot more Ghosts on channel 5 with the diplexer than I do with the A/B switch.

I can't see how a Radio Shack Attenuator will help as I thought it would attenuate all frequencies which would impact 4.1 for example if I put it on the antenna side that picks up 4.1.

-Don b2

greenehouse,

How come 22 would not come thru strong on the "All" side of the Join antennae?


Everyone else and Greenhouse,

BTW- I connected a diplexer this morning replacing my A/B switch.

Results were unsatisfactory. I lost 22.1 altogether and 5.1 keeps going in and out. 5.1 is acting similiar to what 11.1 does off the a/b switch.

I switched to analog NTSC OTA and noticed a lot more Ghosts on channel 5 with the diplexer than I do with the A/B switch.

I can't see how a Radio Shack Attenuator will help as I thought it would attenuate all frequencies which would impact 4.1 for example if I put it on the antenna side that picks up 4.1.

-Don b2


If you put it on antenna that has everything except WUNC, you can attempt to tone down the signal until all channels come in. Often times ghosting and poor image (or lack of it in digital) is due to too much power. It is a little bit counterintuitive to what you would think. In my case it works, in yours it may or may not. Also note that I am purely a digital setup.

I did hook up an analog (NTSC) set last night and WRAL came in albeit a bit wobbly and distorted with the variable attenuator at max, all other channels were picture perfect. I did not have time to go up in the attic and turn the attenuator down to 75% (where I had it before going all digital) to check for an undistorted NTSC WRAL reception. You should also note that from my location all broadcasters but WUNC are within 2 degrees(primarily ABC) of each other per antennaweb.org. What this does not account for is my antenna location (i.e. in an attic above the tree line on a fairly high point of reception => very little between me and the tower). Also this does not account for multipath, antenna overlap,length of cable runs, combiner (1), splitter (3 way), and other factors that effect reception and household distribution.

My issue with WRAL NTSC is since I have the 4228 stacked with the 3018 in the attic I am receiving WRAL on both antennas (I think). I am pretty sure the 3018 is either getting WRAL off of the backend (since it is pointed to WUNC) due to WRAL being so close to my proximity. Note that this is not a problem with digital reception, only analog.

I suggest you try looking at the antenna thread and FAQ for more info as it is really a fine tuning of your particular location and determining what works best for it.

"I suggest you try looking at the antenna thread and FAQ for more info as it is really a fine tuning of your particular location and determining what works best for it. "

I have read faqs, read old threads, on various boards until the cows come home and typically the pet answer is to "Get a rotator".

This may indeed be a solution for most ATSC viewers but the better half has enough trouble understanding an A/B switch let alone a rotator.

Consequently I am trying to come up with a set up that is as user friendly as possible.

I can attenuate the overdriven 5.1 signal but I don't want to lose 22.1 which comes in at less signal strength.

-DonB2

Regarding use of splitters/combiners, don't forget that they do not always pass DC to the amplifier or may pass it on one side only. Check specs.

What use to be called Pax, questions:

Is the analog NTSC OTA frequency for PAX out of Rocky Mount UHF 47?

Is the digital ATSC OTA frequency for PAX out of Rocky Mount VHF 13 or 14 and is remapped to 47.1?

If so, this could explain why I get the analog signal very well off of my UHF antenna but do not get the ATSC signal at all.

-DonB2

"Regarding use of splitters/combiners, don't forget that they do not always pass DC to the amplifier or may pass it on one side only. Check specs"

Thanks, It is easy for me to forget that.

-DonB2

What use to be called Pax, questions:

Is the analog NTSC OTA frequency for PAX out of Rocky Mount UHF 47?

Is the digital ATSC OTA frequency for PAX out of Rocky Mount VHF 13 or 14 and is remapped to 47.1?

If so, this could explain why I get the analog signal very well off of my UHF antenna but do not get the ATSC signal at all.

-DonB2

ATSC is on 15.

POSG,

Thanks and 15 is VHF correct?

-DonB2

POSG,

Thanks and 15 is VHF correct?

-DonB2

UHF

POSG,

Thanks and 15 is VHF correct?

-DonB2

2-13 <-- VHF
14+ <-- UHF

And to further break it out
2-6 - low VHF (not very good for ATSC)
7-13 high VHF ( acceptable FOR atsc, CAN OFTEN BE RECIEVED ON A uhf ANTENNA)

14+ UHF

Just curious - did you have any issues (or experience degraded signal strength) on receiving 22.1 after installing the jointenna?

22.1 is the closest local station (on frequency 57) to WUNC (59). The jointennas supposedly attenuate a couple frequencies +/- 2 from the joining/selected channel. (ie, 59 is completely attenuated, as are 58 and 60 to a degree, and finally 57 and 61 to a degree, on the "all" input)

No, my channel 22(.1) digital was not affected by the JoinTenna.

22DT is actually one of my most stable channels. As in, I can move/adjust the antenna, and it seems steady.

My NBC(DT) has been a little flakey of late.

I actually think I may be in the "too strong" zone for some stations.

I'm trying to match up the info (at an earlier post) of HAAT, and signal strength to see if my flakey NBC is the most powerful. I sense a visit to RadioShack in the near future.

Been kinda stagnant lately so I thought I'd stir the kettle. :)

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6374301.html?display=Breaking+News

Did anybody notice any audio problem during Supernatural on WLFL 22.1 lastnight like dialogue coming from the left side instead of center?

Since I've had such a good time is this thread I thought I'd tell folks that I'm taking a job in Las Vegas starting in January, so I'll be hanging out here until then, and I'm hanging out in the Las Vegas thread as well to get to know folks.

They seem to have many of the same arguments about cable, satellite, OTA, and who's best, etc. The difference is they seem really mean about it. Maybe it's just our southern charm, but it seems like we mostly argue and then quit worrying about. I'll certainly miss that. ;)

Anybody know of a ~local place that carries poles (besides radio shack)?

I'm looking for something over 10 feet.

I need to move my antenna about 12 feet "to the left" to find a clearer path thru the trees.
Getting over the tree line may be an impossible task, so I'm trying for a much less dense place.

Any/all options will be entertained.......

I can even go crazy long, as I can use the side of the house as a stabilizer.

Thanks......................

Since I've had such a good time is this thread I thought I'd tell folks that I'm taking a job in Las Vegas starting in January, so I'll be hanging out here until then, and I'm hanging out in the Las Vegas thread as well to get to know folks.

They seem to have many of the same arguments about cable, satellite, OTA, and who's best, etc. The difference is they seem really mean about it. Maybe it's just our southern charm, but it seems like we mostly argue and then quit worrying about. I'll certainly miss that. ;)

Yep, and while we won't mind you telling them about us, we'll understand that what happens on the "Vegas" thread stays in Vegas :)

Best of luck and prosperity.

Anybody know of a ~local place that carries poles (besides radio shack)?

I'm looking for something over 10 feet.

I need to move my antenna about 12 feet "to the left" to find a clearer path thru the trees.
Getting over the tree line may be an impossible task, so I'm trying for a much less dense place.

Any/all options will be entertained.......

I can even go crazy long, as I can use the side of the house as a stabilizer.

Thanks......................

Shholiday - I found mine at home depot in the tv/cable/phone area. I think they were the basic 6 foot lengths with a tapered end so you could plug one into another to make a 12 foot pole or longer.

Since I've had such a good time is this thread I thought I'd tell folks that I'm taking a job in Las Vegas starting in January, so I'll be hanging out here until then, and I'm hanging out in the Las Vegas thread as well to get to know folks.

They seem to have many of the same arguments about cable, satellite, OTA, and who's best, etc. The difference is they seem really mean about it. Maybe it's just our southern charm, but it seems like we mostly argue and then quit worrying about. I'll certainly miss that. ;)

Good luck in Vegas. I lived in Scottsdale, AZ a few years back. Don't believe that "but it's a dry heat" crap. 117 is hot !!! You won't have to worry about trees blocking your satellite view however.

Well, I've finally had it with NBC on TWC...I'm from Indiana and love ND football (and NFL football). I'm not sure if it's TWC or NBC, so I went out today and bought a $30 indoor Radio Shack antenna. Much to my surprise, I get ALL the digital stations in the area. All with about 90-95% signal strength. I live in an apartment (moving to a new house in December). I thought I would be lucky to get the big 4 plus 22.1. So, I'm really psyched to be able to check out 22.1 and the HD offering on that station as I've never had it before in HD (I don't watch SD unless I have NO other option. :) :) :) :)

I currently have digital cable with TWC in cary. I have a mythTV setup and I'm looking for a way to record ESPNHD scaled down to 480p via S-video. I read that the S-video output on the SA8000HD is disabled, is there a regular digital cable box that I can get from TWC that will reduce the resolution of the HD channels so they will display via S-video? I wouldn't be recording in HD but it would be a much better source for mythTV to record from than analog cable.

Greets. I'm using an antenna for OTA reception and get good signal strength over here in Durham. I have two different HDTV tuners. One is the DirecTV HD20 and the other is a FusionHDTV5 RT Gold PCI adapter I use in my MythTV box.

Prior to setting up MythTV I never noticed anything odd with the signal on WTVD 11.1. I know it is 720p while the other stations in the area seem to prefer 1080i but I'm seeing something strange in the audio track.

With MythTV I hear the sound cut in and out, but only on WTVD. (WRAL and others are fine.) So, looked at the stream using mplayer and see this going on. Notice the ERRORs for WTVD vs WRAL below.

COLLECT_SECTION, start: 64, size: 184, collected: 184% 3% 0.8% 0 0
SKIP: 0+1, TID: 0, TLEN: 13, COLLECTED: 184
PARSE_PAT: section_len: 13, section 0/0
PROG: 1 (1-th of 1), PMT: 48
COLLECT_SECTION, start: 64, size: 184, collected: 184
SKIP: 0+1, TID: 2, TLEN: 86, COLLECTED: 184
FILL_PMT(prog=1), PMT_len: 184, IS_START: 64, TS_PID: 48, SIZE=184, M=0,
ES_CNT=2, IDX=0, PMT_PTR=0x8805300
PROG DESCR, TAG=5, LEN=4(4)
PROG DESCR, TAG=5, LEN=4(4)
PROG DESCR, TAG=5, LEN=4(4)
PROG DESCR, TAG=5, LEN=4(4)
PROG DESCR, TAG=5, LEN=4(4)
PROG DESCR, TAG=5, LEN=4(4)
ERROR, descriptor len is too long, skipping
...descr id: 0x2, len=3
...descr id: 0x6, len=1
PARSE_PMT(1 INDEX 0), STREAM: 0, FOUND pid=0x31 (49), type=0x10000002,
ES_DESCR_LENGTH: 8, bytes left: 28
...descr id: 0x5, len=4
...descr id: 0x81, len=6
...descr id: 0xa, len=4
Language Descriptor: eng
...descr id: 0x6, len=1
PARSE_PMT(1 INDEX 1), STREAM: 1, FOUND pid=0x34 (52), type=0x2000,
ES_DESCR_LENGTH: 23, bytes left: 0

Compare this to what I see using mplayer and another channel, like WRAL:

COLLECT_SECTION, start: 64, size: 184, collected: 184% 4% 1.0% 0 0
SKIP: 0+1, TID: 0, TLEN: 13, COLLECTED: 184
PARSE_PAT: section_len: 13, section 0/0
PROG: 1 (1-th of 1), PMT: 48
COLLECT_SECTION, start: 64, size: 184, collected: 184
SKIP: 0+1, TID: 2, TLEN: 79, COLLECTED: 184
FILL_PMT(prog=1), PMT_len: 184, IS_START: 64, TS_PID: 48, SIZE=184, M=0,
ES_CNT=3, IDX=0, PMT_PTR=0x8805300
PROG DESCR, TAG=5, LEN=4(4)
...descr id: 0x11, len=1
...descr id: 0x10, len=6
...descr id: 0x6, len=1
...descr id: 0x86, len=7
PARSE_PMT(1 INDEX 0), STREAM: 0, FOUND pid=0x31 (49), type=0x10000002,
ES_DESCR_LENGTH: 23, bytes left: 32
...descr id: 0x5, len=4
...descr id: 0x81, len=8
...descr id: 0xa, len=4
Language Descriptor: eng
PARSE_PMT(1 INDEX 1), STREAM: 1, FOUND pid=0x34 (52), type=0x2000,
ES_DESCR_LENGTH: 22, bytes left: 5
PARSE_PMT(1 INDEX 2), STREAM: 2, FOUND pid=0x3a (58), type=0xffffffff,
ES_DESCR_LENGTH: 0, bytes left: 0

So, basic question. Does anyone else have issues with WTVD audio cutting in and out on various equipment? For what it's worth, mplayer, xine and my DirecTV HD20 playback the audio fine. MythTV is choking on it. I'm guessing it's due to the apparently errors with the audio encoding?

Any ideas, thoughts, or out right help would be fantastic. :)

I am a student an NCSU and am having a major dilemma with my setup in my dorm. I am on the 12th Floor all the way on the westside of campus. On my Philips 30" HDTV I get all the channels I need (ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX, with a couple others). I just got a projector and bought a Samsung SIR-T451 ASTC/QAM Tuner. I am using ComTech (Univeristy) cable and it is not picking up anything at all. I tried getting OTA channels and it is not picking anything up at all either? I am using a little Philips Anntenae 30 dollars at Walmart. Any suggetsions or questions about my setup? I really want to watch local HD channels on my projector.


*Scratch That* I just had to set my anntena up on top of my projector screen mount.
Thanks,
Aaron

OK, now that I have OTA 22.1, what shows are available in HD? I would like to check out the station as another alternative for HD programming. I searched this thread and came up with nothing.

Thanks in advance.

Jeff

Since I've had such a good time is this thread I thought I'd tell folks that I'm taking a job in Las Vegas starting in January, so I'll be hanging out here until then, and I'm hanging out in the Las Vegas thread as well to get to know folks.

They seem to have many of the same arguments about cable, satellite, OTA, and who's best, etc. The difference is they seem really mean about it. Maybe it's just our southern charm, but it seems like we mostly argue and then quit worrying about. I'll certainly miss that. ;)
Damn!! You're one of the good guys.
Can you get Posg a job? :D Just kiddin' Posg. :D
Good luck with the transition from the "Bible Belt" to "Sin City".
Maybe at least the Vegas Thread won't have the moderators called in when you get a little off topic. ;)

Since I've had such a good time is this thread I thought I'd tell folks that I'm taking a job in Las Vegas starting in January, so I'll be hanging out here until then, and I'm hanging out in the Las Vegas thread as well to get to know folks.

They seem to have many of the same arguments about cable, satellite, OTA, and who's best, etc. The difference is they seem really mean about it. Maybe it's just our southern charm, but it seems like we mostly argue and then quit worrying about. I'll certainly miss that. ;)
Good luck in Vegas dude. :)

With MythTV I hear the sound cut in and out, but only on WTVD. (WRAL and others are fine.) So, looked at the stream using mplayer and see this going on. Notice the ERRORs for WTVD vs WRAL below.

I have a MythTv box, and I even use the same tuner as you. I have no problems with WTVD. I have not checked mplayer on the recordings though.

I think the stream errors might be a red herring, and it might be a video issue with 720p. To check this, see if Fox is OK; FOX is 720p also.

When I was setting up my MythTV box, I has a problem playing 720p even though 1080i was fine. It would manifest itself with horrible audio stuttering, while the video was mostly OK. This turned out to be some video related thing. I think disabling xvmc, and adjusting the sync (OpenGL vs rtc) made it go a way. It was over a year ago, so my memory is fuzzy. Good luck!

Drew

I have a MythTv box, and I even use the same tuner as you. I have no problems with WTVD. I have not checked mplayer on the recordings though.
Drew

If you still have your MythTV box hooked up to the Onkyo, could you tell me if you're using a spdif connection? Also, when playing shows from WTVD, does the Onkyo say 'PCM fs 48kHz' on the LCD or does it detect DD 2.0 or DD 5.1?

Appreciate the help! I'll also double check my video settings. I'm not using XvMC but am using OpenGL Vblank syncs. I'll try with RTC and see if it makes a difference.

If you still have your MythTV box hooked up to the Onkyo

I think you have me confused with a different poster. I never had an Onkyo. FWIW, I do use SPDIF. The cable runs right to my TV. I'm not much on sound, but my TV's audio/video inputs are paired, and to use DVI in, you must use the SPDIF input if you want the sound to come from the same input. After hours of fooling around trying to make a good .asourdrc, I just decided to put 'options snd-pcm-oss adsp_map=4' in /etc/modprobe.conf, and tell myth to use /dev/adsp.

Drew

FYI for those interested, they changed the pricing on Road Runner Premium. 8mb down used to be like 75 bucks, now its only 9.95 more than what normal road runner is...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/roadrunner/RoadRunnerTurbo.html

FYI for those interested, they changed the pricing on Road Runner Premium. 8mb down used to be like 75 bucks, now its only 9.95 more than what normal road runner is...

Ha. I wonder what the bandwidth during peak times is?

I have the standard RR, which is supposed to be good for 5Mb. I get close to that (4Mb/s) in the morning. But as soon as the late afternoon comes, bandwidth drops through the floor (generally 768Kb/s or less). I've been thinking of upgrading my 5Mb TWC RR to a 1.5Mb DSL connection, in hopes the DSL will be faster during peak times.

BTW, this has been happening over the last year or so. Probably as more people get online, and start downloading larger and larger things. Three years ago, I got close to the advertised bandwidth all the time.

Drew

Ha. I wonder what the bandwidth during peak times is?

I have the standard RR, which is supposed to be good for 5Mb. I get close to that (4Mb/s) in the morning. But as soon as the late afternoon comes, bandwidth drops through the floor (generally 768Kb/s or less). I've been thinking of upgrading my 5Mb TWC RR to a 1.5Mb DSL connection, in hopes the DSL will be faster during peak times.


I dropped TWC for Verizon two years ago. I think the best I ever managed on the "5mb" RR was about 1mb (even after having techs out to the house five times). my "slower" Verizon DSL is consistently 2.7mb or so (on a 3mb plan) no matter what time of day I try it. I wish companies had to actually get within some percentage of their plan to be able to advertise it. Selling a 5mb download when you can only get 20% of that speed seems like false advertising to me.

I dropped TWC for Verizon two years ago. I think the best I ever managed on the "5mb" RR was about 1mb (even after having techs out to the house five times). my "slower" Verizon DSL is consistently 2.7mb or so (on a 3mb plan) no matter what time of day I try it. I wish companies had to actually get within some percentage of their plan to be able to advertise it. Selling a 5mb download when you can only get 20% of that speed seems like false advertising to me.


Doing speed tests with speakeasy.net, I'm getting about 7.5mbit/s now. I was at 4.7mbit/s before the change kicked in. I can't complain at all.

Anybody know the formula to calculate a QAM Channel number from its frequency?

Anybody know the formula to calculate a QAM Channel number from its frequency?
http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html

Damn!! You're one of the good guys.
Can you get Posg a job? :D Just kiddin' Posg. :D
Good luck with the transition from the "Bible Belt" to "Sin City".
Maybe at least the Vegas Thread won't have the moderators called in when you get a little off topic. ;)

I did my time in the desert, thank you very much sir.

Anybody know the formula to calculate a QAM Channel number from its frequency?
Channel = (Frequency - 81MHz) / 6MHz, if the frequency is between 219MHz and 645MHz.
Channel = (Frequency - 51MHz) / 6MHz, if the frequency is 651MHz or higher.

Anybody know the formula to calculate a QAM Channel number from its frequency?


Thanks guys!!!!!

FYI for those interested, they changed the pricing on Road Runner Premium. 8mb down used to be like 75 bucks, now its only 9.95 more than what normal road runner is...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/products/roadrunner/RoadRunnerTurbo.html


thank you FiOS and your 20Mb connections for showing Road Runner the stupidity in their pricing.

shholliday,

I ordered the AntennaJoiner today as per your info on this board and Thanks!

I figured it was high time to order it seeing as I have caught the better half twice now trying to receive 4.1 via my Garner farm 4228 antenna. The a/b switch is just too much for her to handle. And I don't blame her. It is a PITA to keep switching and the wireless signal barely gets up to the attic which is two floors away.

WRAL gives away antennas to promote HD , PBS ought to give away antenna joiners :) . But I will just think of it as a silent donation to PBS.

I think I will replace the Powered Square Shooter with another 4228 or equivalent soon. I am not impressed with the Square Shooter for picking up 4.1 as I think I need range not direction to get it in reliably.

If the antenna Joiner works for me my next nut to crack will be to receive PAX or whatever it is called these days.

I do not hear anyone talking about receiving PAX on this board.


-DonB2

I do not hear anyone talking about receiving PAX on this board.

Gee, I wonder why.

Posg,

You got something against Diagnosis Murder and Charlies Angels? :o

-Donb2

Posg,

You got something against Diagnosis Murder and Charlies Angels? :o

-Donb2

Yes, the fact that they're not only still on the air, but that they're PAX's marquee programming.

I currently have digital cable with TWC in cary. I have a mythTV setup and I'm looking for a way to record ESPNHD scaled down to 480p via S-video. I read that the S-video output on the SA8000HD is disabled, is there a regular digital cable box that I can get from TWC that will reduce the resolution of the HD channels so they will display via S-video? I wouldn't be recording in HD but it would be a much better source for mythTV to record from than analog cable.
Two things:
You can shift the SA8000HD to SD mode, and that will enable the Svideo. I believe its the channel up and volume up buttons at the same time on the box...or some other combo between those four buttons. I would test it out, but its a pain to shift back :) (but its not a big problem). Also I believe the PIP window outputs on Svideo all of the time, so you could potentially leave your recording in the PIP window and capture it that way.

One thing though, the SA boxes letterbox HD material...ie, if you capture via Svideo, youll get gray bars on your capture. However, the Pace box that TWC has just squeezes the video to fit...so you should be able to get a much better picture with it, then just stretch it back to 16:9 and youre good to go.

Has there been any more news on TWC adding ESPN2-HD? It was announced on HDBeat almost 2 months ago that it would be added in the next 30-60 days:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/11/time-warner-to-get-espn2hd-soon/

Now, I know that the 60 days aren't up yet, but come on!!! I know when they added ESPN-HD 2 years ago, it just appeared a few hours before the S Carolina v Georgia game, so I'm hoping they continue that tradition and add it just in time for me to watch S Carolina v Kentucky next Saturday...

Go Gamecocks!!!

I saw the earlier post saying the Road Runner Premium service is now only $10 a month more than regular Road Runner, which I have. When it was $30 extra I wasn't interested, but at $10 extra I'll take another luck. Does anyone on this board have the Premium service and can comment on it? Noticeably faster?

Raleigh1208

I saw the earlier post saying the Road Runner Premium service is now only $10 a month more than regular Road Runner, which I have. When it was $30 extra I wasn't interested, but at $10 extra I'll take another luck. Does anyone on this board have the Premium service and can comment on it? Noticeably faster?

Raleigh1208


I got it the day I posted. I consistantly get 7.5mbit at all times during the day now.

Has there been any more news on TWC adding ESPN2-HD? It was announced on HDBeat almost 2 months ago that it would be added in the next 30-60 days:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/11/time-warner-to-get-espn2hd-soon/

Now, I know that the 60 days aren't up yet, but come on!!! I know when they added ESPN-HD 2 years ago, it just appeared a few hours before the S Carolina v Georgia game, so I'm hoping they continue that tradition and add it just in time for me to watch S Carolina v Kentucky next Saturday...

Go Gamecocks!!!

Email Fred Dressler (Corp VP of Programming for TWC) and ask him. He's the one who negotiates the contracts.

fred.dressler@twcable.com

I was having the pixelation problem and lack of live features when I hooked up my external drive. I emailed TW and this is what they said:




Dear Customer

TRACKING NUMBER: 97276


Inquiry: As per AVS forum and its helpful people I have hooked up an external
hard drive to my 8300 hd dvr. The problem i'm having is that the live
buffering and controls do not work when this drive is hooked up. I
cannot pause live tv anymore and also the signal gets lost/scrambles
much more often with the drive hooked up. They said something about
the live buffering going to the drive with the most free sapce but no live
buffer reserved space being allocated on the external drive. Any
fixes to these problems in the works or any known fixes?
thanks




Response:Thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately none of our DVR’S has the ability to support an external hard drive. We have not been advised that this will changed.




Please let us know if we can be of any additional assistance.

Thank you for using Time Warner Cable.
Sophia
Time Warner Cable Support
Raleigh, NC
919-595-4892
1-866-489-2669

I am loving this new DVR. but I am in shock the CBS and FOX are not on the Service for Directv. Apparently Capitol Broadcasting is upset only 75% of their customer can get it. This is insane. I was curious if there were any other HR20 users ready to bombard WRAL with e-mail to get this resolved. WRAL says since the offer a HD anntena, that is a solution to this issue. The idea having to put an antenna for a device to eliminate the need for an antenna is insane.

I am loving this new DVR. but I am in shock the CBS and FOX are not on the Service for Directv. Apparently Capitol Broadcasting is upset only 75% of their customer can get it. This is insane. I was curious if there were any other HR20 users ready to bombard WRAL with e-mail to get this resolved. WRAL says since the offer a HD anntena, that is a solution to this issue. The idea having to put an antenna for a device to eliminate the need for an antenna is insane.

CBS and FOX are not available from DirecTV in HD because of 2 reasons:

1- DirecTV has not yet deployed the MPEG4 HD locals-in-local for our area
2- CBS and FOX are locally owned and operated.

What I mean in 2 is that NBC and ABC are available as a "national" feed on DirecTV because those two stations are owned by their respective networks, so what you actually get is the New York feed of NBC and ABC.

This is not a WRAL issue, and emailing them isn't going to help any. When DirecTV gets around to our market you will be able to get the HD versions of all the locals (well, HD-Lite anyway) on your new DVR. Oh, and an external antenna won't help, as DirecTV has disabled the OTA antenna on their "new and improved" non-TiVo DVR. So much for progress.

CBS and FOX are not available from DirecTV in HD because of 2 reasons:

1- DirecTV has not yet deployed the MPEG4 HD locals-in-local for our area
2- CBS and FOX are locally owned and operated.

What I mean in 2 is that NBC and ABC are available as a "national" feed on DirecTV because those two stations are owned by their respective networks, so what you actually get is the New York feed of NBC and ABC.

This is not a WRAL issue, and emailing them isn't going to help any. When DirecTV gets around to our market you will be able to get the HD versions of all the locals (well, HD-Lite anyway) on your new DVR. Oh, and an external antenna won't help, as DirecTV has disabled the OTA antenna on their "new and improved" non-TiVo DVR. So much for progress.

Didnt NBC17 recently get sold by NBC so its no longer 'Owned and Operated' and thus ineligable for the network feed?

Didnt NBC17 recently get sold by NBC so its no longer 'Owned and Operated' and thus ineligable for the network feed?

I thought of that just after I posted. I think they have been sold, but I don't know when that takes affect or when it will affect the availability of the New York feed. I get all my network HD off-the-air anyway, so I haven't been paying that close attention.

In considering whether to jump from regular Road Runner to Road Runner Premium for the extra $10 a month, I started measuring the signal I am currently getting on Road Runner, using the test included on the TW-Road Runner web site, and the results were very disappointing. I may need for TW to come out and test my connections and lines. I had a buddy who had TW come out and they put in a new line to his house, and his signal strength jumped significantly.

I'd like to measure my signal strength for Road Runner using something other than the TW test. What's another good web site for testing your broadband signal strength?

Thanks in advance,

Raleigh1208

I'd like to measure my signal strength for Road Runner using something other than the TW test. What's another good web site for testing your broadband signal strength?


Speakeasy (http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/)

You will get a more meaningful test of the capability of your local loop if you test against a nearby server (vice speakeasy.com in Seattle).

There are a large number of I-N speed test sites here:
http://www.dslreports.com/stest

Also note the link quality tests, the ability to compare your results to other users and MAPS to display the expansion of FiOS/FiOS-TV to a neighborhood near you....

CBS and FOX are not available from DirecTV in HD because of 2 reasons:

1- DirecTV has not yet deployed the MPEG4 HD locals-in-local for our area
2- CBS and FOX are locally owned and operated.

What I mean in 2 is that NBC and ABC are available as a "national" feed on DirecTV because those two stations are owned by their respective networks, so what you actually get is the New York feed of NBC and ABC.

This is not a WRAL issue, and emailing them isn't going to help any. When DirecTV gets around to our market you will be able to get the HD versions of all the locals (well, HD-Lite anyway) on your new DVR. Oh, and an external antenna won't help, as DirecTV has disabled the OTA antenna on their "new and improved" non-TiVo DVR. So much for progress.

You are incorrect, I am currently watching the HD MPEG 4 for NBC, ABC, and CW.

From WRAL Station Manager it sounds like a money issue not a techinical issue. The OTA is suppose to be available late 2006. So emailing may them may help.

-----Original Message-----
From: deCourt, Chuck [mailto:CdeCourt@wral.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 2:49 PM
To:
Cc: Brandes, Matt
Subject: RE: WRAL Feedback

Dear Samuel,

Let me assure you that WRAL wants everyone in the market to be able to receive and enjoy our HD signal.

As I mentioned earlier, WRAL and WRAZ have been working with DirecTV to reach an agreement that will provide all viewers in the Raleigh market our HD signals. However, at this time DirecTV has only offered to provide the WRAL and WRAZ HD signals to less than 75% of the market which we find unacceptable. We are continuing to negotiate in good faith with DirecTV and look forward to a speedy resolution. Meanwhile, WRAL would be happy to provide you a free over the air antenna for your home.

Samuel, if you would be kind enough to provide us with your home address and phone number we will generate a signal study to determine the exact antenna required for your location. By receiving the local stations over the air, your HD picture quality will be far superior to what DirecTV or Dish will be able to provide. Also, you will be able to see the additional standard definition channels provided by the local broadcasters. WRAL and WRAZ have been providing a local 24 hour news channel and weather channel for over 4 years. You will also be able to enjoy ABC and NBC additional SD channels which are not provided by DirecTV or Dish.

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact WRAL.

Respectfully,

Chuck deCourt
Station Manager

Then the request I got for asking for the waiver:
From: deCourt, Chuck <CdeCourt@wral.com>

To:

CC: Brandes, Matt <MBrandes@wral.com>

Sent: Wed Sep 13 16:19:42 2006

Subject: RE: WRAL Feedback



Dear Samuel,



I understand your desire for a waiver. However, the pay provider you have chosen does not have the rights to provide WRAL or WRAL HD on their system. There are other choices you may make to receive WRAL and WRAZ in HD. Time Warner has the HD signals and of course we provide it free over the air.



While I appreciate your offer to drop a waiver if we were to grant it, historically, every time SHIVERA law has been renewed by congress, the distant feed subscribers have been grandfathered in. Furthermore, it is the position of WRAL and WRAZ not to grant waivers for pay systems that have not reach agreements with us.



Again, we would be happy to supply you with a free over-the-air antenna to enjoy all of the local HD channels in superior quality to DirecTV.



Respectfully,



Chuck deCourt

You are incorrect, I am currently watching the HD MPEG 4 for NBC, ABC, and CW.


No, I'm not. You are confused. ABC, NBC, and CW are all done as NATIONAL feeds. They may or may not be in MPEG4, but that isn't the point. What you are trying to do is get a waiver from WRAL to allow you to get the national CBS HD feed, and that isn't generally granted if it is possible for you to get the signal OTA. Once DirecTV roles out LiL HD support for our area you will be able to get the HD signals for CBS and FOX that way.

What the program manager was trying to tell you was that they are working with DirecTV on providing the HD feed for the LiL service. I didn't see anything there about money, just a desire for everyone to be able to get the service. Not that it really matters since DirecTV doesn't provide HD LiL for this area anyway.

No, I'm not.

I am afraid you are wrong. According to DirecTV's own web site when you enter in the Zip Code 27601 for Raleigh, NC the following stations are listed available in HD.:

WTVD, WNCN and WLFL only. WRAL and WRAZ are not listed available in HD but their analogs are. Go check it out. DirecTV has also achnowledged in a press release that the Raleigh market does have HD LIL available.

High-definition (HD) local channels from DIRECTV are also available in your area. To receive them you will need an HD system
Available Channels
Network Affiliate Local Channel # 3-Digit Channel # (older receivers) HD Channel #
PBS UNC 4 944
CBS WRAL 5 945
ABC WTVD 11 946 11
NBC WNCN 17 947 17
CW WLFL 22 948 22
MNT WRDC 28 949
UNI WUVC 40 950
I i 47 255
FOX WRAZ 50 951

I am afraid you are wrong. According to DirecTV's own web site when you enter in the Zip Code 27601 for Raleigh, NC the following stations are listed available in HD.:

My bad. I have no idea how I missed the annoucement. I guess because I don't really care about MPEG4 locals (I get all my HD OTA) and I'll be ditching DirecTV at some point (probably when my HDTiVo dies) anyway.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061003/20061003006230.html?.v=1

ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH - News) issued the following statement regarding recent developments in the Tivo Inc. v. EchoStar Communications Corp. lawsuit:
Tuesday October 3, 5:48 pm ET

"We are pleased the Federal Court found that EchoStar has a 'substantial case on the merits' and blocked the Texas decision for the duration of the appeal. This action by the Federal Court reinforces our belief that the Texas court made significant errors during the trial process and we look forward to complete vindication of our position.

As a result of the Court action, our customers will not be disrupted and all of our DVR models will continue to be available through the EchoStar distribution system."

Meanwhile, WRAL would be happy to provide you a free over the air antenna for your home.

To go on a bit of an aside: is anyone having issues with the WRAZ OTA signal? I live in a bit of a low spot with trees in the way. I get WRAL OTA just fine, but WRAZ likes to break up and pixellate when I try to watch Panthers' games. Given they are the same company / same tower, I'm kind of surprised, unless WRAZ's transmitter is lower on the tower or something.

I also seem to be getting NBC OTA just fine, while ABC rarely comes in at all.

Since my DirecTV is shooting through a gap in trees and one of the Spaceway satellites is to the left of the existing ones (and thus likely blocked), I'm looking at either getting someone out here who can move my antenna higher to get a better look at the towers, or switching to Time Warner ( *shudder* ).

SHHOliday,

My joinantenna came in. At first I was concerned that I may have ordered the wrong type. But than I reread your post below:

"The JoinTenna blocks channel 59 from the <all> line, and ~only lets channel 59 in on the other line. One line goes from the jointenna to the hdtv device."

And that answered my questions.

Now I just got to connect it.

-DonB2 :)

To go on a bit of an aside: is anyone having issues with the WRAZ OTA signal? I live in a bit of a low spot with trees in the way. I get WRAL OTA just fine, but WRAZ likes to break up and pixellate when I try to watch Panthers' games. Given they are the same company / same tower, I'm kind of surprised, unless WRAZ's transmitter is lower on the tower or something.

I also seem to be getting NBC OTA just fine, while ABC rarely comes in at all.

Since my DirecTV is shooting through a gap in trees and one of the Spaceway satellites is to the left of the existing ones (and thus likely blocked), I'm looking at either getting someone out here who can move my antenna higher to get a better look at the towers, or switching to Time Warner ( *shudder* ).

I haven't been having any issues at all. I watched the Panther's game on Sunday and from the 6-8th innings of last night's Yankee game...No issues.

gstelmack,

I have found it perplexing also as to why the two don't have exact same quality reception. Maybe they use different Xmitters or are xmitting at different levels of full power if such a thing is possible.

Or maybe one is transmitting on a frequency that is less susceptible to outside noise influence.

Do you have a booster on the OTA signal coming in?

-DONB2

Do you have a booster on the OTA signal coming in?

Yes. Since I'm in a low spot, I don't get the strongest signals to begin with, so I need an amp to receive anything.

Antenna Joiner issues.

Well so far I am having no luck with the Channel Master antenna Joiner model 0583-3 CH59 I got from Warren Electronics.

http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/TVS/Passives.htm

I ordered it as found in another post with 59 for PBS.

I disconnected my A/B switch and connected up the antennajoiner with my 4228 antenna and amp connected on the "All" input of the antenna joiner and the Powered Square Shooter on the "59" input.

I than went downstairs to see the results.


4.1 - No reception at all.
5.1 - very weak signal 69 to 72 max - this is normally a strong signal.
11.1 - Ok signal and maybe better than normal.
17.1 - Not sure
22.1 - No reception
28.1 - Seemed about the same as usual
47.1 - Actually got a picture - once, than it dropped off.
50.1 - No reception.


I than went back up in the attic and swapped the connections although I felt that this would not be a correct install.

The results were as follows:

4.1 - No reception at all.
5.1 - Signal Strength in the 80's
11.1 - Ok signal and maybe better than normal.
17.1 - Ok Reception
22.1 - Ok Reception
28.1 - Seemed about the same as usual
47.1 - No picture
50.1 - Ok reception


So I am no better off with the Antenna joiner at least at present.

I have the following questions:

1. Do I need to match cable length as mentioned below:

"The other tidbit with the JoinTenna is that you want the coaxial cable that runs from <all> antenna to be the same length as the coaxial cable running from the <specific>(channel 59) antenna."

2. Am I getting all my stations except PBS in the second configuration above via the square Shooter? I find this hard to believe and will connect it directly tonight to see.

3. Is the antennajoiner dropping too many db's killing the PBS reception?

4. Did I order the wrong antennajoiner or get a defective one?

-DonB2

Antenna Joiner issues.

Well so far I am having no luck with the Channel Master antenna Joiner model 0583-3 CH59 I got from Warren Electronics.

http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/TVS/Passives.htm

I ordered it as found in another post with 59 for PBS.

I disconnected my A/B switch and connected up the antennajoiner with my 4228 antenna and amp connected on the "All" input of the antenna joiner and the Powered Square Shooter on the "59" input.

I than went downstairs to see the results.


4.1 - No reception at all.
5.1 - very weak signal 69 to 72 max - this is normally a strong signal.
11.1 - Ok signal and maybe better than normal.
17.1 - Not sure
22.1 - No reception
28.1 - Seemed about the same as usual
47.1 - Actually got a picture - once, than it dropped off.
50.1 - No reception.


I than went back up in the attic and swapped the connections although I felt that this would not be a correct install.

The results were as follows:

4.1 - No reception at all.
5.1 - Signal Strength in the 80's
11.1 - Ok signal and maybe better than normal.
17.1 - Ok Reception
22.1 - Ok Reception
28.1 - Seemed about the same as usual
47.1 - No picture
50.1 - Ok reception


So I am no better off with the Antenna joiner at least at present.

I have the following questions:

1. Do I need to match cable length as mentioned below:

"The other tidbit with the JoinTenna is that you want the coaxial cable that runs from <all> antenna to be the same length as the coaxial cable running from the <specific>(channel 59) antenna."

2. Am I getting all my stations except PBS in the second configuration above via the square Shooter? I find this hard to believe and will connect it directly tonight to see.

3. Is the antennajoiner dropping too many db's killing the PBS reception?

4. Did I order the wrong antennajoiner or get a defective one?

-DonB2

1) The cables do not need to be the same length

2) The square shooter is a realitively non-directional antenna. Not good. Multipath is the enemy is digital reception, not low signal levels.

Hint. Orient the channel 59 antenna first by connecting it, and it only directly to your TV, then tie it in with the other antenna.

The 4228 may be too directional for your application. It's beamwidth is only about 15 degrees. The propogation paths for each channel will vary even if they originate from the same location. Often you cannot find a sweet spot that satisfies all channels.

Get cable.

"The square shooter is a realitively non-directional antenna."

- Interesting as its directional capabilites were its strong selling point. IMHO - it sucks as a long range antenna and about the same distance capability as the Silver Shooter.


Multipath is the enemy is digital reception, not low signal levels.

I agree, but why am I not seeing any PBS? Never appeared to have multipath issues with it before. The main problem I had with PBS was weak signal strength coming from the SS and I needed to add a RCA booster to get enough signal to make it downstairs.

I am guessing weaksignal is the issue with why I can't see PBS downstairs using the Antennajoiner. But I am perplexed why I had to hook up the joiner backwards to see the other channels. I would think they would not have been being passed through.

Get cable - Ha HA

-DonB2

"The square shooter is a realitively non-directional antenna."

- Interesting as its directional capabilites were its strong selling point. IMHO - it sucks as a long range antenna and about the same distance capability as the Silver Shooter.


Multipath is the enemy is digital reception, not low signal levels.

I agree, but why am I not seeing any PBS? Never appeared to have multipath issues with it before. The main problem I had with PBS was weak signal strength coming from the SS and I needed to add a RCA booster to get enough signal to make it downstairs.

I am guessing weaksignal is the issue with why I can't see PBS downstairs using the Antennajoiner. But I am perplexed why I had to hook up the joiner backwards to see the other channels. I would think they would not have been being passed through.

Get cable - Ha HA

-DonB2

Just of of curiosity, where are you located ???

Ok............ I may have made a mistake in the "overlap" issue with Channel 59 and Channel 57.

I did not test Channel 57, without the PBS antenna attached to the JoinTenna.
As in , I didn't measure the strength of channel 57 ... with the JoinTenna in the mix....but without the PBS antenna attached.
When I detached my <pbs> antenna.....my 57 numbers were low.
However, when I had the <all> and the pbs antenna installed, I was getting good 57 strength.
My error is that maybe the pbs antenna was picking up channel 57 signal.
I'm not sure, I'm just reporting it as I know it now.

...................

DonB2
1. Do I need to match cable length as mentioned below:


I can't say for sure. When I made my setup, I made both cables the same length.
I'm not using about 10 feet of one cable, but my thought was why tempt it and add another variable to the equation?
Thus I made them the same length, to the inch.
( I cut new cables at the same time from my 1000ft spool )


DonB2:
Are you running any amps in the mix at all?
When I tried running my <all> antenna (RadioShack omni) which was amplified, it messed up my numbers.
It could have been the multipath of the "omni" part of this antenna. Or maybe it was something else.
I reported this issue earlier, and I think someone wrote "do the amplifying ~before running it into the join tenna".
I did that, but still got screwy numbers.

My setup is a non amplified CM 4228 and an non amplified CM 3022 for the pbs.
And it is working.
(<all> and <pbs> antenna(s))

http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4228Antenna.jpghttp://www.channelmaster.com/images/3022%20Antenna.jpg

I just ordered an amplifier. I'm kinda experimenting with it.
(one experiment is to try and get some non raleigh stations, on a third antenna (the radio shack version of the cm 3022).
But I'm going to try and find time to hook the amp up to the CM4228 (my <all>) and see if that throws off the <pbs> signal strength.

Anyway. If I didn't catch it then I'm sorry, but if you have any amps in your setup, please describe them.

But as gstelmack illuded to:
I get the <pbs> antenna pointed and maxed out, wired straight to whatever hd box you have. I'm getting mid 80's on the <pbs>.

Then I do the wire into the join tenna. And I'm still in the 80's. Maybe I lose 2-4 "bars", but not radically off.

My guess is something to do with the amps, and not a bad jointenna. But that's my guess.


Lastly, are all your connectors in good shape? I'm talking about the f connectors, and their connections to the cable.
I was getting some weird results using "screw on type f connectors" until I came to my senses and installed new crimp style ones. This was a while back, but it got rid of some signal strength up and downness.

..

However said "Antenna Pointing is an Art, not a Science" was dead on.

The 4228 may be too directional for your application. It's beamwidth is only about 15 degrees. The propogation paths for each channel will vary even if they originate from the same location. Often you cannot find a sweet spot that satisfies all channels.


Yeah, this was the biggest thing I debated between the 4228 and the 3021(or4221).

Here are the specs below.

NBC17 seems to be my only problem child (on my <all>) as I get 80's on it, but if I move the antenna, I can get a better signal, but I sacrafice the others.


Channel Master Antenna model CM4221A Channel Master CM 3021
This is a Large Directional antenna and yeilds a beam width of about 45 degrees.


Channel Master CM 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna (CM4228)
This is a Large Directional antenna and yeilds a beam width of about 15 degrees.



Antenna Rotators and DVR's were not made for each other.

shholiday,

"Lastly, are all your connectors in good shape? I'm talking about the f connectors, and their connections to the cable.
I was getting some weird results using "screw on type f connectors" until I came to my senses and installed new crimp style ones. This was a while back, but it got rid of some signal strength up and downness.
"

I am presently using factory cables with Screw on connectors. They appeared to work fine with A/B switch but who knows.

I see 53 is 5.1 and 57 is 22.1. Maybe the Join antenna was cutting out 22.1 as I noticed and partially cutting out 5.1.

I still can't figure why I got no PBS however with either connection found on the Join antenna.


"Antenna Rotators and DVR's were not made for each other."

You can say that again. And I would add the "Better Half" to that.

Sounds like I would be better off with the CM 3021 for my all antenna. Could explain why I have to rotate it occasionly to ensure 11.1 comes in. I assume the 3021 is much larger than the 4228?


-DonB2

My Set Up:

CM 4228 hanging from one end of Attic hopefulling pulling in 5.1,11.1,17.1,22.1,28.1, and 50.1. The 4228 is amplified with a Channel master 7777 with amp next to 4228 and than coax run power supply plugged in at other end of the attic.

Powered Square Shooter at other end of attic. The Square Shooter which is powered also goes thru a inexpensive RCA amplifier I got at Home Depot - I forget the DB gain on the RCA. This Antenna is used only for PBS 4.1.

These two set ups plug into my Radio Shack Remote A/B switch that is switched via a Radio Shack 100 ft max radio remote repeater. This is located nearer the SS.

Than the output of the A/B switch drops down to the 1st floor where the Pioneer Plasma with Built in ATSC tuner is.

I have tried the SS without the extra RCA amp and was having reception issues.

I have used the 4228 without the CM7777 but had 11.1 reception issues as well as 22.1 issues.

All Coax is the better quality style which is sold already made up with connectors at Home Depot and other such stores.

-DonB2

Channel Master CM 3021
• Size: 4" x 20" x 35" (L x W x H)

Channel Master CM 4228
Size: 6.5 x 39.5 x 36 (L x W x H)


No, the 4228 is larger. Especially the width, which is the left and right (horizontal) as you look at this picture of the 3021.

http://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/ANC3021_zoom.gif


I am presently using factory cables with Screw on connectors.
When I mentioned "screw on", I was talking about screwing them onto the ~~cable, not what you screw onto the "stubby" thing on the back of the TV/Device/Etc.
Crimping the connector onto the cable is much better.

Here is a picture of a "twist on" (or screw on as I called it)
http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/full/10447i0.jpg

Notice you can't crimp the body, its too sturdy. You twist it on. Its kinda of a crapshoot if it makes good contact.

I see 53 is 5.1 and 57 is 22.1. Maybe the Join antenna was cutting out 22.1 as I noticed and partially cutting out 5.1.

57 could be altered by the 59/JoinTenna, because I think those things have a +/- 2 on them.
53 would be way outside that +/- 2 range.

I guess its back to the testing board again, but hopefully with each step, you can rule out or rule in possibilties with the new knowledge.

You didn't mention your amp situation, btw.

................

Thanks for the info on the antenna,

"You didn't mention your amp situation, btw."

I decided to do it in two posts after I blew away the first post accidently going to Antennaweb.org :mad:

I used those screw ones in the past and I agree a crap shoot.

I purchased a crimping tool and crimp on connectors from Home Depot awhile back but have mostly used factory cables with connectors already attached.

-Don

So is everyone in agreement that the side labeled 59 on the modified by factory CM 0585-3 antennajoiner is where I hook up the PBS only antenna and that only 59 +/- passes thru on this input.

And that the "All" input connects to the antenna that points at Garner and picks up all the other channels such as 5.1 and 11.1 and does not pass through 59.

And that if I had TWC all my problems except money would be solved.

DonB2

CM 4228 hanging from one end of Attic hopefulling pulling in 5.1,11.1,17.1,22.1,28.1, and 50.1. The 4228 is amplified with a Channel master 7777 with amp next to 4228 and than coax run power supply plugged in at other end of the attic.

Powered Square Shooter at other end of attic. The Square Shooter which is powered also goes thru a inexpensive RCA amplifier I got at Home Depot - I forget the DB gain on the RCA. This Antenna is used only for PBS 4.1.

These two set ups plug into my Radio Shack Remote A/B switch that is switched via a Radio Shack 100 ft max radio remote repeater. This is located nearer the SS.

Than the output of the A/B switch drops down to the 1st floor where the Pioneer Plasma with Built in ATSC tuner is.



Ok.
THis is one good reason not to have a built in tuner.
I actually take my tuner (HD10-250) on the roof with me, with a 13" TV.
After I get that far, I take them into the attic (where my JoinTenna is)
Then I go for the main TV.

My fiance was going to kill me if I asked "What's it say now?", yelling down from the roof.

But you have a long chain, and many variables.

Can you try both, with No amps... with the JoinTenna?
Or do you get squat-signal at the TV if you do this?




So is everyone in agreement that the side labeled 59 on the modified by factory CM 0585-3 antennajoiner is where I hook up the PBS only antenna and that only 59 +/- passes thru on this input.


I say Yes.


And that the "All" input connects to the antenna that points at Garner and picks up all the other channels such as 5.1 and 11.1 and does not pass through 59.


I say Yes.


And that if I had TWC all my problems except money would be solved.


Maybe your TV problems, but not ~all your problems. (ha ha).


Digital TV is really cool when it works, but man... it takes a while to get there sometimes.

..

So is everyone in agreement that the side labeled 59 on the modified by factory CM 0585-3 antennajoiner is where I hook up the PBS only antenna and that only 59 +/- passes thru on this input.

And that the "All" input connects to the antenna that points at Garner and picks up all the other channels such as 5.1 and 11.1 and does not pass through 59.

And that if I had TWC all my problems except money would be solved.

DonB2

TWC lifeline basic ranges from 11.55 to 14.95/month depending on where you live. Assuming you have a QAM tuner, it's a no brainer. Besides, the PBS HD feed is 24/7, not just 3/7.

AND, no dropouts on windy days !!!

You're in the news. Hope everybody is OK there in NC!

You're in the news. Hope everybody is OK there in NC!

OK here in North Apex. Im about a quarter mile north of the evacuation boundery.

Thanks for asking!

Watching the coverage in HI DEF.... ;)

Watching the coverage in HI DEF.... ;)

HI DEF, or just LIVE?

HI DEF, or just LIVE?

WRAL is on scene Live and using HiDef cameras.

A coworker I was told actually video taped some of the flames from his house. So obviously he lives close.

I took 751 around Chernobyl on my way in this morning.

Hopefully the smoke is not going to go South.- at least for my house!

-DonB2

A coworker I was told actually video taped some of the flames from his house. So obviously he lives close.

I took 751 around Chernobyl on my way in this morning.

Hopefully the smoke is not going to go South.- at least for my house!

-DonB2

Winds are expected to stay out of the north pushing the stuff south. Early reports allegedly say air quality monitors didnt see anything nasty...

Antennjoiner continued,

I just called Warren Electronics concerning the joiner and he agrees that I have it hooked up correctly and that the 59 side passes only 59 through.

He suggested that I call Channel Master and they may also be able to help me. Little did I know that Channel Master is here in NC.

The tech number is 919 - 989-2282

POSG, My HD tuner has cable hook up but unfortunately it is the other standard that the Cable industry decided not to go with so my built in Pioneer QAM is worthless even if I did have TWC.

Shholliday.
I disconnected the antennajoiner for now as I found last night that I was having reception problems with 11.1.

So I am back to the A/B switch.

-DonB2

WRAL is on scene Live and using HiDef cameras.

I was just kidding...I figured WRAL had the HD cameras out. I thought you might give "It's like looking through a window" a whole new meaning (as you might be looking through your window). :)

I was just kidding...I figured WRAL had the HD cameras out. I thought you might give "It's like looking through a window" a whole new meaning (as you might be looking through your window). :)

I got it now... :rolleyes: Im a little slow today... :D

scsiraid,

Probably the clorine smell is affecting you.

Don

Maybe there's ditchweed burning.

scsiraid,

Probably the clorine smell is affecting you.

Don


Could be.....

Maybe there's ditchweed burning.

Welcome back !!! :)

Welcome back !!! :)
Just dropped in to make sure you guys weren't too smoky.

Just dropped in to make sure you guys weren't too smoky.

Not where I am, but I understand the smoke was so thick in some areas that it caused satellite customers to see the dreaded "searching for satellite signal" screen. tee hee.

Not where I am, but I understand the smoke was so thick in some areas that it caused satellite customers to see the dreaded "searching for satellite signal" screen. tee hee.
I see the sense of humor is the same here. :)

You folks gotten in trouble lately?

I see the sense of humor is the same here. :)

You folks gotten in trouble lately?

No, it's been pretty boring. We beat the NFL/TWC thing to death on a thread I started, and the usual suspects have been trolling around here doing their usual bashing and whining.

I actually HAVE a life, so I've been focusing my energy on things that actually matter, and that I have some influence over. ;) ;) ;)

Did WRAL get any shots from the HD Copter or did they keep it away?

Anyone get any screen caps?

Other than a couple of posts, I've been lurking here for quite some time. I thought I share some experiences for whatever its worth.

We recently moved from an apartment in the town of Zebulon to an area about seven miles north and slightly east of the town, out in the boonies.

In town I had standard TWC with Roadrunner with the local HD channels via QAM on my Sanyo Vizon (from Walmart).

Before the move, I inquired about TWC service where our house was being built. Although still in a Zebulon zip code, our house is in Franklin County instead of Wake, where the apartment was. TWC basically told me that I'd no longer exist. So much for TWC and Roadrunner.

The local cable supplier at the new location is Adelphia. Friends and neighbors said, "Just Say No". Plus, Adelphia has no broadband service in the new location, so that was two strikes.

I ended up going with DishNetwork and the 625 Dual DVR. I got a same day install from a gentleman in Garner who I would HIGHLY recommend (if anyone is looking for a good installer, let me know!).

Before he came out, and just for grins, I connected an FM dipole antenna to the TV's digital tuner input and scanned for channels. Amazingly I actually got enough signal to detect all the major local digitals. Most were stuttering and pixellated, but according to antennaweb, I was surprised to get much of anything without a real antenna.

I did get locals on Dish in order to use the DVR with local content. I DID NOT go HD with Dish at this time.

I did, however, pick up a "UHF Only, 40" Boom" antenna (RS Part#15-2160, $24.99), connect the cable in the attic to the TV and scanned. Viola! All the local digital channels. WRAL, WTVD, WNCN, all with 90-95% signal strentgh. WUNC was, of course, the problem child with 25-35% and no useful picture. After pointing the antenna for WUNC, I had 55-65% with the occasional pixellation or stutter. For fun, I ran the antenna through a Channel Master amp I had, and now manage 65-75% with only the rare picture glitch. The other channels remain in the 85%+ range.

I'm not really sure if I should attribute my experience with this antenna to a great tuner or just dumb luck. Based on antennaweb, I would have though that I would need a big honking antenna, roof mounted, to get WUNC.

I can tell you that moving the antenna from the center of the attic, to a point adjacent to the outer wall did increase the signal significantly.

So far, I am very happy with Dish and the 625. With the antenna, I can get HD Locals without the extra cost from Dish, and given the amount of HD I currently watch, it should be a good solution.

My only gripe, is the deal with WUNC only broadcasting in HD for the narrow timeframe every evening. A phone call to WUNC brought a response about bandwidth and satellites and licenses and someday.

Anyone know the real deal? Any schedule on WUNC-HD going 24-7 OTA?

Thanks to eveyone for your posts. A lot of good information comes out of the forum (after filtering some of the less, uh-hmmm, useful stuff). Still enjoyable, sometimes entertaining, just not so... informative :rolleyes:

Kevin

what NFL not in HD this weekend?

Hi gang - I'm real glad to find this forum. I was hoping if someone could help me troubleshoot a weak reception issue out here in the sticks. ;)

A few details:

Zipcode: 27597 (Zebulon, NC)
Antenna: CM 4228 8-Bay
Installation: roof, single story
Terrain: semi-wooded
Tuner - ATSC integrated, Sony SDTV

My reception starts to go out in windy/rainy conditions...some channels are worse than others. There are no issues on calm, sunny days.

On the Digital Menu->Diagnostics screen I have these values on my weakest channel - 17.1 NBC17HD. The signal goes out every 10 seconds or so.

Signal Strength: 94-100
Modulation: SVSB
Status: Lock
SNR (dB): 21-24
AGC (%): 37-39

What can I do to remediate the issue? I've tried to reposition the antenna direction with no luck.

Thanks - Dan

Hi gang - I'm real glad to find this forum. I was hoping if someone could help me troubleshoot a weak reception issue out here in the sticks. ;)

A few details:

Zipcode: 27597 (Zebulon, NC)
Antenna: CM 4228 8-Bay
Installation: roof, single story
Terrain: semi-wooded
Tuner - ATSC integrated, Sony SDTV

My reception starts to go out in windy/rainy conditions...some channels are worse than others. There are no issues on calm, sunny days.

On the Digital Menu->Diagnostics screen I have these values on my weakest channel - 17.1 NBC17HD. The signal goes out every 10 seconds or so.

Signal Strength: 94-100
Modulation: SVSB
Status: Lock
SNR (dB): 21-24
AGC (%): 37-39

What can I do to remediate the issue? I've tried to reposition the antenna direction with no luck.

Thanks - Dan

Unfortunately, unless you can get your antenna well above tree level, you will probably alway suffer from dynamic multipath on windy days. This type of reception problem is worse in strong signal areas than weak ones.

OTA reception is as much art as science. In Zebulon, you're in a strong signal area and can expect these problems.

what NFL not in HD this weekend?

Couldn't believe the Panthers game was SD. With multiple billions of dollars thrown around, you expect somebody could siphon off a couple of million and make sure EVERY game was available in HD. What's up, Jefferson-Pilot/RAYCOM/whoever does the ACC games now in charge of NFL coverage?

dloomis and kestep,

Welcome Zeb town folks!

dloomis - when you watch 17.1 with signal strength meter on, does it stay at 97-100 and than occasionly drop down to 45 or so before popping back up to 97-100? If so, that is an indication I have observed of Multipath ghost problems.

kestep,

"Anyone know the real deal? Any schedule on WUNC-HD going 24-7 OTA?"

Well at least now they tell you that the HD channel is off until 8pm. It was a real pain a year ago when my tuner would hang trying to get in the off air HD on 4.2 outside of Prime time.

I was wondering about 24-7 the other day after POSG suggested that I get TWC and QAM. I need to look into what PBS even offers as HD other than during Prime Time. In a lot of cases they tie up the HD portion with HD reruns and occasionally the prime time offering show will not even be on the 4.2 OTA channel. Maybe on QAM it is, I just don't know.

I'm in Holly Springs and have trouble with PBS even there.

-DonB2

AntennaJoiner update,

Well I called CM tech last week and left my phone number but still have not heard from them.

I hooked my Powered Square Shooter up directly to my coax going to living room two floors down and measured 4.1 signal strength with the two amps. One being the built in SS amp and the 2nd being a cheapy RCA amp.

I got aroung 73 to 75 signal strength.

I than took the RCA out of the circuit and signal strength dropped off to to around 68 and picture became promlematic.

I than put the Cheapy RCA back in and ran the 4.1 antenna through the 59 side of the antenna joiner with the ALL side not connected and a terminator on the ALL side.

I checked signal strength and picture quality and it appeard to be as good as I get thru the A/B switch on the PBS antenna side of around 73 to 75.

Not sure why I could not get PBS last week thru the Antenna Joiner but it may be related to my not using the All side.

Conclusiions so far - Dump the Square Shooter and get a larger Channel Master or Radio Shack antenna to replace it so I can try and get 4.1 up to the 80's for signal strength. Than try hooking up the All side .

------------------------------------

Side notes:

This morning I found OTA ATSC 11.1 to be off line. Did anyone else notice this?

I was in Fuquay Home Depot and they appear to be clearancing the RCA line with discounts on remaining stock.

-DONB2

My reception starts to go out in windy/rainy conditions...some channels are worse than others. There are no issues on calm, sunny days.

Join the club on that one! :)

Height and potentially getting above the treeline is the cure.

This past weekend, I drove to Northern Virginia, and I saw several people who had gotten their own telephone pole (wood kind) and put their antenna on it.

The telephone poles they were using seemed taller than the normal ones you usually see along the roadside.

Let me be clear, they were NOT piggybacking off an existing and in-use telephone pole. Besides the antenna, they poles were not attached to anything, and they were not "in pattern" with the other (real) telephone poles bringing electricity and telephone to the house.

And one guy had strapped a ~20 foot pole to the top of the telephone pole, about 5 feet strapped, leaving 15 feet higher.

That's the first time I went "Hmmm, that could work" ... which would meet both the tallness requirement AND the visual requirement.

The little lady (finance, soon to be wife) doesn't seem too keen on a metal tower.
Even though I try to equate "Gilmore Girls" in HDTV, with the need for some kind of tall pole.

.............

http://www.uppersevier.net/resource/media/telepole.jpg

I am still fuzzy on why Broadcast TV even exists anymore. I am guessing that the revenue generated via OTA is miniscule compared to the advertising revenue brought in via Cable and Sat.

Maybe it doesn't cost that much to put up a HD ATSC transmitter antenna especially when everyone is sharing in the Garner Farm expense.

-DonB2

I am new to Cary and have TWC with 2 HD DVRs (SA 8300HD). The service has been decent but pricey and there is no ESPN2 HD which quite honestly, sucks.

Has anyone recently switched to DirecTV? Tried their new HD DVR? How is the PQ vs TWC?I am curious to hear about the benefits. It seems like a cheaper long term solution. Also, I understand that WRAL and FOX are not in HD but DirecTV mentioned they could provide me with one of (or both of) the national feeds.


Thanks in advance.

Has anyone recently switched to DirecTV?

I have an HD10-250. (Not the new HD20).

The HD10-250 is a Tivo Unit. The HD20 is not, its the directv version.


Pro's:
HD10-250
the OTA. This is the single reason I like this unit. You can get free HDTV with it, using an antenna. Antenna setup could be a pain in the butt, but once you get it, its yours and its free.

So I have the DirecTv HD package (where I get the HD channels over satellite), and I get locals on OTA. The HD10-250 is the magic nugget for this setup.

You'd have to get a used HD10-250, since directv is pushing HD20's now.

HD20-
Its the most current, but I believe at this time, you cannot do OTA channels.
Thus my dis-interest in the unit.
The HD20 is going to use this new super dish, which has 5 elements.
http://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/AT59.gifhttp://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/AT59_det_zoomA.gif
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AT59

The OTA's may at some point be available for the HD20, but I do not know that for sure. I never had one, so I don't know nor pay close attention to its features.


The biggest headache for it, is can you pick up all 5 sat's? If you can, then you'll probably be very happy with the HD20. If you can't, then that will affect your satisfaction immensely.

..

If I was making a fresh choice, I'd still go with the HD10-250.
But, I'd have to know I had good OTA reception. I do now, with minor issues when it rains on NBC.
And the HD10-250 only needs a 3LNB dish, not the 5LNB dish.
And I know that right now, I"m barely getting 3 sat's, because I had to cut down a tree to get the last one to get picked up.

However, if you can get all 5 sat's , and you're not interested in the startup headache of OTA setup, then the HD20 would be a good choice.
Most people like them, a few people (tivo devotees) talk about a few missing features... but overall I think people like them.

......

Here is a total directv advantage point:
I have a HD10-250.
But also on my account, I have a DSR704, upgraded to 500 hours worth of capacity. (Its a non HD tivo unit).
Whe DSR704 is "travel-able", as in, I can take it to a mountain house, or in my camper van, and still get the data ~~over the satellite. Its complains that it needs to dial in once in a while, but the program guide data does come over the satellite.
If you have ~any remote type situation (boat, lake house, camper van), then direcTV is the way to go here.

Back to HD.
I'm happy with the HD10-250.

Now, to add another caveat, if stations switch to mpeg4 instead of mpeg2, then the HD10-250 will be outdated merchandise. But if I get 3 years out of it, I'm happy. So you might want to consider that.

As far as directv HD package, I'm happy. I think its $10/month over the base price, which gives me ESPN, ESPN2, Discovery, plus some others.
And I'm happy with that.

You got choices, so pick what meets your needs the best.

..

dloomis and kestep,

Welcome Zeb town folks!

dloomis - when you watch 17.1 with signal strength meter on, does it stay at 97-100 and than occasionly drop down to 45 or so before popping back up to 97-100? If so, that is an indication I have observed of Multipath ghost problems.

<snipped>

-DonB2

Yes, but I get an outage a little higher, say, 60% signal strengh or so. It certainly does sound like multipath...I'll search this site and get smart on it.

Thanks for the response!

Join the club on that one! :)

Height and potentially getting above the treeline is the cure.

This past weekend, I drove to Northern Virginia, and I saw several people who had gotten their own telephone pole (wood kind) and put their antenna on it.

The telephone poles they were using seemed taller than the normal ones you usually see along the roadside.

<snipped>



That sounds like it's effective, but not very practical in the 'burbs. Even the suburbs of Zebulon. :p

Im assuming this was a local problem as there were no complaints in the Heroes thread, but is there a reason NBC 17 has to drop to SD for at least a block of Heroes every week? This is two weeks in a row....it used to be a regular thing for them, but its been so long I thought they had finally jumped that hurdle. Unfortunately calling them to make them aware of the situation during the show doesnt work with DVR, so maybe one of their people will happen to read this in time for future episodes?

Also, I understand that WRAL and FOX are not in HD but DirecTV mentioned they could provide me with one of (or both of) the national feeds.


I'd get that in writing as there are very few conditions as we end 2006 that the above statement would apply to.

Im assuming this was a local problem as there were no complaints in the Heroes thread, but is there a reason NBC 17 has to drop to SD for at least a block of Heroes every week? This is two weeks in a row....it used to be a regular thing for them, but its been so long I thought they had finally jumped that hurdle. Unfortunately calling them to make them aware of the situation during the show doesnt work with DVR, so maybe one of their people will happen to read this in time for future episodes?
Data is not available instantly. Most of the time you have to wait a day or so before reports come in nationwide on problems. If it was local, everything would sound the same including commercials.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723211&page=10&pp=30

Unfortunately, unless you can get your antenna well above tree level, you will probably alway suffer from dynamic multipath on windy days. This type of reception problem is worse in strong signal areas than weak ones.

OTA reception is as much art as science. In Zebulon, you're in a strong signal area and can expect these problems.
A little experimenting will be required. I'm in Wendell, with a highly directional UHF/VHF antenna on a rotor, and my signal is rock solid. I can't get a clean picture on WTVD analog, but their digital is rock solid at my house.
If your signal strength is that high, you are most likely getting multipath reflections. Moving the antenna to different locations, lower, or changing to a more directional antenna will help. Higher is not always better, and trees waving in the wind will definitely hinder a signal. Pine trees are the worst, but they are all asorbing extra moisture this time of year for the winter. Be sure your wires are in good shape, clean, and secure!

NBC17ENG,

You're ALIVE!!! I was beginning to wonder...nice to have you back. Any luck with the boss about turning off 17.2 during sporting events? BTW, NASCAR exhibited the same issues as football over the weekend (OTA)...

Jeff

A little experimenting will be required. I'm in Wendell, with a highly directional UHF/VHF antenna on a rotor, and my signal is rock solid. I can't get a clean picture on WTVD analog, but their digital is rock solid at my house.
If your signal strength is that high, you are most likely getting multipath reflections. Moving the antenna to different locations, lower, or changing to a more directional antenna will help. Higher is not always better, and trees waving in the wind will definitely hinder a signal. Pine trees are the worst, but they are all asorbing extra moisture this time of year for the winter. Be sure your wires are in good shape, clean, and secure!

Sometimes a "drop-out" or non-linearity in the received waveform is actually worse with a highly directional antenna. The received signal off axis may be intact while the signal at the peak of the beam is disrupted.

Watching analog UHF with the CM4228 demonstrates much more moving phase distortion than the smaller CM 4-bay during windy conditions at my location, 16 miles from the transmitters. The distant channels (e.g.WITN) are much more stable on windy days than the ones closer in.

And at UHF frequencies, NBC17eng is right. Higher is not necessarily better unless you get above all physical obstructions.

Im assuming this was a local problem as there were no complaints in the Heroes thread, but is there a reason NBC 17 has to drop to SD for at least a block of Heroes every week? This is two weeks in a row....it used to be a regular thing for them, but its been so long I thought they had finally jumped that hurdle. Unfortunately calling them to make them aware of the situation during the show doesnt work with DVR, so maybe one of their people will happen to read this in time for future episodes?

I've seen a lot of "stuttering" on WNCN lately. WITN had Heroes in HD last, but this morning WITN had the Today show in SD. Perhaps the issue is with the network feed???

As of last night, I am no longer able to get NBC HD (17-2) on my QAM channels. All other local HD channels work fine. I am in Durham using TWC. Any idea? Did the channel "move" to another frequency? Thanks.

Data is not available instantly. Most of the time you have to wait a day or so before reports come in nationwide on problems. If it was local, everything would sound the same including commercials.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723211&page=10&pp=30
I wasnt asking about audio though....it sounded weird, but not bad. I was concerned about the lack of HD signal, which appears to be a local problem since absolutely no one complained about it in the Heroes thread (the one you linked). I asked there if anyone else had the same problem just in case, but I cant believe no one else would bring it up if it was a network problem.

NBC17ENG,

You're ALIVE!!! I was beginning to wonder...nice to have you back. Any luck with the boss about turning off 17.2 during sporting events? BTW, NASCAR exhibited the same issues as football over the weekend (OTA)...

Jeff
But you just killed me and our chances. I was running a higher bit rate this weekend than ever, even more than the Olympics. I thought it was awesome at home, and just spot checked the TWC DVR which is not as good, but not awful. I saw people's faces in the stands in the close ups that were just digital blobs before. And I did not see a single square on NASCAR, except the smooth move on the final lap straight out of the movie "Ricky Bobby, Talladega Nights"!

Anyone else here able to comment on ND Saturday, NASCAR, and NFL on Sunday?

Yeah, I see Miami missed the HD trigger again in the last 2 segments of "Heros".

The Hero sound problem was national not local, it has been confirmed.

NFL on Sunday night was pretty good. Still alot of pixelation during any movement but thats more of a national then local problem I would guess.

Looks like I'm going to have to make a special trip down to miami and pu my foot in somebody's arse. They can play with the HD trigger all they want, BUT NOT DURING HEROES!!!

Did ya'll see the last freakin scene of Heroes?!! Dang! can you imagine waking up with your upper torso wide open and your inards in a pan? LOL that was freakin awesome. :)

But you just killed me and our chances. I was running a higher bit rate this weekend than ever, even more than the Olympics. I thought it was awesome at home, and just spot checked the TWC DVR which is not as good, but not awful. I saw people's faces in the stands in the close ups that were just digital blobs before. And I did not see a single square on NASCAR, except the smooth move on the final lap straight out of the movie "Ricky Bobby, Talladega Nights"!

Anyone else here able to comment on ND Saturday, NASCAR, and NFL on Sunday?

Yeah, I see Miami missed the HD trigger again in the last 2 segments of "Heros".

I was referring to the pre-race difficulties. I didn't watch much of the race (hiding under the desk now), I'm not much of a NASCAR fan. I usually try to watch it to see if I see the same issues as with SNF and ND football. BTW, I thought SNF looked the best it's looked (for what that's worth). I definitely notice improvement OTA vs. cable. No question OTA is much improved. I think our problems are much less here than nationally. BTW, wasn't 17.2 still up on Saturday during the ND football game? It (17.2) looked REALLY sad...

Keep up the good work...

Jeff

Looks like I'm going to have to make a special trip down to miami and pu my foot in somebody's arse. They can play with the HD trigger all they want, BUT NOT DURING HEROES!!!

I think you just annoyed a lot of people who DVRd it last night! :D


edit: oops! better change mine as well!

Oops! I changed it to a spoiler.

...

Watching analog UHF with the CM4228 demonstrates much more moving phase distortion than the smaller CM 4-bay during windy conditions at my location, 16 miles from the transmitters.

...


Hmmm...interesting. Antenna's are cheap enough so I think I'll try this. Does anyone know if the CM 4-bay is available locally?

Antenna Joiner update and I hope it is the last:

To get the antennajoiner to work I did the following:

PBS 4.1 comes in on the 59 side of the Joiner. The all input is stubbed with a terminator.

The output of the Joiner is connected to the 1 of 2 input of a splitter/diplexer.

The other antenna that picks up all the other channels is connected to the 2 of 2 input of the splitter/diplexer.

The output of the splitter/diplexer is connected to the coax lead running down two floors.


With this set up I was able to view all the channels without the annoying a/b switch.

I went through all the channels looking for any Multipath issues but did not notice any additional issues than I did in the past using the a/b switch.


I know it all sounds like a cludge mess but it works and as per my previous post I could not get it to work just using the antenna joiner.

Of course after posting this I will probably go home and nothing will be working correctly.

-DonB2

"Does anyone know if the CM 4-bay is available locally?"

I would be interested in this also. I want to replace my Square Shooter.

Does Radio Shack sell anything similar to the CM 4-bay?

-DonB2

Here's a link to a thread just started by an executive at Time Warner Cable soliciting input for development of TWC's proprietary set-top box software. It is intended for positive suggestions, not a place to bitch and whine.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=733414

But you just killed me and our chances. I was running a higher bit rate this weekend than ever, even more than the Olympics. I thought it was awesome at home, and just spot checked the TWC DVR which is not as good, but not awful. I saw people's faces in the stands in the close ups that were just digital blobs before. And I did not see a single square on NASCAR, except the smooth move on the final lap straight out of the movie "Ricky Bobby, Talladega Nights"!

Anyone else here able to comment on ND Saturday, NASCAR, and NFL on Sunday?

Yeah, I see Miami missed the HD trigger again in the last 2 segments of "Heros".

The beginning of the race looked horrible but after the uplink issue got straightened out... it looked great. Very little pixilation considering the degree of motion at 195 mph.

That was a real bonehead play on the last lap.... He should have been a bit more sheepish after the checkers than he was IMHO. but I digress......

Posg,

"not a place to bitch and whine."

as if any of us would participate in such behavior :D

-DonB2

Does anyone know if the CM 4-bay is available locally?

I came up negative on this journey.

solidsignal.com was the best total price I could find.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC4228

This is a Large Directional antenna and yeilds a beam width of about 15 degrees.

If making a new decision
I would also consider the
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SCM4221A
This is a Large Directional antenna and yeilds a beam width of about 45 degrees.

While we're lucky to have all (except pbs) on one general location, I think this 15 vs 45 might be related to my NBC issues.
If I fine tune to NBC, I lose on the others. I had to sacrafice about 8 points of signal strength to find the compromise.

To get the antennajoiner to work I did the following:

PBS 4.1 comes in on the 59 side of the Joiner. The all input is stubbed with a terminator.

The output of the Joiner is connected to the 1 of 2 input of a splitter/diplexer.

Don, nice work. The terminator idea never occurred to me.

I did some JoinTenna experimenting last night also.

I have a 4228 as the <all>. I have a 3021 as the PBS. I have a CM amplifier (newly acquired) to test with.

I hooked up the CMamp to the 4228.

Test#1
When I ran the amp BEFORE the jointenna, it TOTALLY screwed up my pbs signal.
Signal flucuated between 10 and 35, really chaotic and really low. As soon as I removed the <all> line (which was amplified), it returned to normal.

Was it a multipath issue? Well........................
When I check the pbs signal strength on the 4228 (aka, the <all>), it was zero - 19 (what I expected as the 4228 is the <all> and points the wrong way for pbs)

So it doesn't seem like much is coming in from the 4228 as far as PBS is concerned.
It seems more like the amp is just whacking the whole thing.


Test#2
When I ran the amp AFTER the jointenna, I got the best results.
However:
No JoinTenna Strength for PBS = 87 or 88.
Under Test#2, PBS strength was 76 or so.
(As in, using the jointenna (with the <all> also attached) zapped 10 bars of strength)
When I removed the <all> line, strength shot back up to 85 or so.

Huh? Zapping 10 "bars" of strength? That's self defeating.

.........................

I tried alot of other permutations, and never found one that I said "Wow, the JoinTenna works great".
Sometimes I thought I was close, but always found some hole.


I need to take my laptop up there, and open excel so I can write down all the permutations. It got too complex after a while to remember everything.

I'm a little concerned, because the situation where I thought I had the bestsetup actually zapped about 10 "bars" of strength for PBS (previously unbeknowst to me).

I'm gonna try you "terminator" method, Don, and see what happens.

.........

It doesn't look like CM tested that sucker with amplifiers in the overall solution. At least thats my take.
Test #1 above makes me think that.

.......................

I'm also going to try some "physical barrier" tests. What I mean is that I'm going to put the 3021 on the side of my house facing PBS/Chapel Hill, and try to see what's going on when the house blocks all signal from Garner (as best as a house can do I guess).


CM definately needs more documentation on the JoinTenna.


..........

Don, let us know over the next couple of days if the "Terminator" solution remains stable.
PS
How did you terminate? What do you use to terminate a coaxial output?

shholliday ,

I used a small cap that I got at probably "Home Depot" made for that use. It sorta looks like a valve stem cap.

BTW - I noticed that another CM product is designed to combine one amplified antenna with a non ampified antenna. I find that interesting.


I wonder if the amplified feeds in our case are causing the signal to jump between the terminals or possibly internally it is jumping within the antennajoiner.

All confusing when you figure how close the coax connectors are to each other on most video equipment and I have not had issues before.

"CM definately needs more documentation on the JoinTenna." I'll say! By the way, you read between the lines better than I did coming up with what Antennajoiner to purchase for the Raleigh area.

PBS needs to put this on their website - but than maybe they really don't expect people to be watching anything but PBS anyway.

You just can't beat Antiques Roadshow - I think they have covererd every antique that was ever made by now on that show.

-DONB2

I came up negative on this journey.

solidsignal.com was the best total price I could find.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC4228

This is a Large Directional antenna and yeilds a beam width of about 15 degrees.


Shoot!

I stand corrected (by my person):

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm
has great deal price and shipping!

I picked up a faint 7.1 signal the other night.

Anyone picking up either of these 2 signals?


* blue - vhf WNCT-DT 9.1 CBS GREENVILLE NC 120° 44.9 10
* violet - uhf WITN-DT 7.1 NBC WASHINGTON NC 120° 44.9 32


I think they're both coming from
http://en.structurae.de/structures/data/index.cfm?ID=s0017568
WITN Tower in Grifton, NC

...

I'd like to know if anyone/someone picked it up before making a real attempt.
(Another antenna?)

Thanks.......

I picked up a faint 7.1 signal the other night.

Anyone picking up either of these 2 signals?


* blue - vhf WNCT-DT 9.1 CBS GREENVILLE NC 120° 44.9 10
* violet - uhf WITN-DT 7.1 NBC WASHINGTON NC 120° 44.9 32

...

I'd like to know if anyone/someone picked it up before making a real attempt.
(Another antenna?)

Thanks.......


Tonight is a real good night for me. WITN-DT 7.1 is coming in fine, and I'm even picking up the WUNC channels! This is a first for me.

BTW - I have a CM UHF 8 Bay pointed from Zebulon to the Garner towers.

Now that I think of it, why the heck am I picking a signal up from Grifton, NC? :eek: That tower is almost 100 degrees in the wrong direction. Now I'm really confused!!!

To get the antennajoiner to work I did the following:

PBS 4.1 comes in on the 59 side of the Joiner. The all input is stubbed with a terminator.

The output of the Joiner is connected to the 1 of 2 input of a splitter/diplexer.

The other antenna that picks up all the other channels is connected to the 2 of 2 input of the splitter/diplexer.

The output of the splitter/diplexer is connected to the coax lead running down two floors.

Don2B,

I don't know what inspired you to try that, but I have replicated it, and it is working.

I bought a gold terminator at Radio Shack last night.

I got home. And wired it up.

I had a cheapo splitter around the house, so I used that one. I might try and get a nicer one.


Running an amp on the <all> antenna didn't seem to affect the Don2B setup like I was getting before.

Final Solution:

3022 runs into JoinTenna on 59 side.
Terminator on JoinTenna <all> input.
JoinTenna output runs into cheapy splitter. (1 out of 2 side)
4228 runs into (2 out of 2) side of splitter.

(1 out of 1) side of splitter runs to the TV.

(Same thing you had , just repeating it for completeness)

Again, my cables running from each antenna are the same length.

I watched all channels last night, without any pixelating whatsoever.

I need to shorten up my cables to the shortest possible length, because when I tested strength of pbs with a 5 feet cable (single side out of the splitter to TV) I had a 83 signal on pbs. When I ran it to the main room TV (25 or 30 feet of cable), I lost about 8 points of strength.

But anyway. Don2B, your solution seems to work! Amazing.
Necessity is the mother of invention, and coaxial cable experimentation.

...........

PS

I sent a ~long email to Channel Master technical support.
I'm hoping to hear from them.

I told them the deal. They're in Smithfield NC, so its not like they don't know about the Raleigh/RDU setup.

Number 1 thing I mentioned is the "completeness" of all CM parts:

the parts list:

CM 4228 Directional UHF antenna. beam width of about 15 degrees.
(this is my <all> antenna)

CM 3022 Directional UHF antenna.
(this is my single channel antenna which will be using for PBS)

Channel Master Spartan 3 Outdoor Antenna Amplifier
(the desire is to have it connected to the 4228 <all>)

CM JoinTenna made for Channel 59. Channel 59 is the Digital feed for PBS out of Chapel Hill.


If I hear from them, I'll post the results.

I have the new hr20 from directv and love it. I just wish Capitol and Directv would come to an agreement. Capitol is not happy that only 75% of the audience could get there signal with Directv so the have not signed an agreement. I am still amazed all the other local channels are available except FOX and CBS in our area i HD on DTV. So I am hoping for an agreement or Directv to enable the tuner in late 2006 as the are advertising on their website.

I have the new hr20 from directv and love it. I just wish Capitol and Directv would come to an agreement. Capitol is not happy that only 75% of the audience could get there signal with Directv so the have not signed an agreement. I am still amazed all the other local channels are available except FOX and CBS in our area i HD on DTV. So I am hoping for an agreement or Directv to enable the tuner in late 2006 as the are advertising on their website.

Could someone explain why DirecTV could/would only deliver Raleigh locals to 75% of the audience. Is this a technical or a legal or a marketing issue ???

shholliday ,

I think I thought up the antennajoiner work around because I eat too much Spaghetti. It keeps my mind running in a tangled mess.

Lets just hope it keeps working for us.

-DonB2

Could someone explain why DirecTV could/would only deliver Raleigh locals to 75% of the audience. Is this a technical or a legal or a marketing issue ???

I suspect it's negotiating room for WRAL. They claim they're only concerned about their customers, but if that were true they would deliver to the 75% that they could. My bet is WRAL took the best possible number for OTA reception (meaning everyone would have a 50 foot tower and a HUGE directional antenna) as the "total" and then took the worst possible satellite number (excluded anyone in an apartment or that has trees in their yard), and came up with 75%. That's actually kind of high if you think about the tree thing... ;)

My bet is that 100% of DirecTV subscribers would be able to get WRAL in this area if WRAL would just let them.

I suspect it's negotiating room for WRAL. They claim they're only concerned about their customers, but if that were true they would deliver to the 75% that they could. My bet is WRAL took the best possible number for OTA reception (meaning everyone would have a 50 foot tower and a HUGE directional antenna) as the "total" and then took the worst possible satellite number (excluded anyone in an apartment or that has trees in their yard), and came up with 75%. That's actually kind of high if you think about the tree thing... ;)

My bet is that 100% of DirecTV subscribers would be able to get WRAL in this area if WRAL would just let them.

I'm still confused. It sounds to me like DirecTV would/could not provide WRAL to 100% of the DirecTV HD subscribers who desired it within the Raleigh DMA.

I suspect it's negotiating room for WRAL. They claim they're only concerned about their customers, but if that were true they would deliver to the 75% that they could. My bet is WRAL took the best possible number for OTA reception (meaning everyone would have a 50 foot tower and a HUGE directional antenna) as the "total" and then took the worst possible satellite number (excluded anyone in an apartment or that has trees in their yard), and came up with 75%. That's actually kind of high if you think about the tree thing... ;)

My bet is that 100% of DirecTV subscribers would be able to get WRAL in this area if WRAL would just let them.

Agreed. WRAL is basically saying "we wouldn't be on TWC either if 1/4 of our viewing area was served by a different cable company, since only 75% of our viewers could see it on TWC". Stupid argument on their point.

More than likely this is all about the digital substations, which is the biggest bone of contention right now between sat companies and local broadcasters (sat doesn't want to have to carry the main WRAL feed + their weather channel + their other subchannels when they are trying to show four NCAA games at once due to the bandwidth concerns).

I'm still confused. It sounds to me like DirecTV would/could not provide WRAL to 100% of the DirecTV HD subscribers who desired it within the Raleigh DMA.

I believe the WRAL contention (I believe, I don't know, I'm assuming, etc) is that the DirecTV spot beam doesn't reach everywhere that WRAL claims their OTA signal does. At least that's the only thing that comes close to making sense to me.

I think that WRAL needs hit with E-Mails asking for them to come to agreement. I have already sent mine, but they need to here from other people. Also, Capitol refuses to offer the waiver even though they are the holdup.

Brandes, Matt [MBrandes@wral.com]
deCourt, Chuck [mailto:CdeCourt@wral.com]




-----Original Message-----

From: deCourt, Chuck [mailto:CdeCourt@wral.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:42 AM

To: Samuel.Hayes@alumni.ncsu.edu

Subject: RE: WRAL Feedback





Dear Samuel,



First, thank you for taking the time to contact WRAL.



We are still in negotiations with DirecTV regarding our HD signal. The one issue we are trying to overcome is DirecTV's spot beam coverage of the market. The current HD beam they would like us to be on only covers 75% of the market and we have serious concerns about that. We are still trying to fine a solution so that all of the Raleigh market can have access to our HD signal via DirecTV.



Respectfully,



Chuck deCourt

Station Manager

AntennaJoiner issues continued:

I am backing off on my last post concerning my success with diplexer and antenna joiner cludge working.

I attempted to watch Criminal Minds on 5.1 last night and less than 5 minutes into the show I started having lockup issues. I guess lock up would not be so bad if audio would continue but it cuts out also.

I switched to analog and said the heck with HD.

Later last night I did some signal strength tests on 5.1 and found good signal at around 91 but after about a minute or two I would see it drop to 49 on me. This usually indicates multipath ghosting issues.

I tested some of the other channels and found 17.1 to be behaving the same issues as 5.1.

Of course 4.1 worked fine!

This morning I disconnected the cludge and hooked the "All" 4228 antenna up directly to the COAX going downstairs.

I than checked 5.1 and 17.1 and had no problems with drop out.

So now I am not sure what to say.

If it was a true multipath issue I would have exepcted it to be there even after I disconnected the antennajoiner and diplexer but it wasn't.

I guess I am now thinking it could be where I have the boosters located or the antennajoiner is just not working good enough to pass 4.1 only and I am getting enough bleed thru that it is causing the multipath issues.

-DONB2

I believe the WRAL contention (I believe, I don't know, I'm assuming, etc) is that the DirecTV spot beam doesn't reach everywhere that WRAL claims their OTA signal does. At least that's the only thing that comes close to making sense to me.

I would doubt that DirecTV would engineer a spot beam that didn't at least cover a DMA. What about huge DMA's like Phoenix, Denver, and Salt Lake City ???? I wouldn't think the FCC would allow partial availability.

AntennaJoiner issues continued:

I am backing off on my last post concerning my success with diplexer and antenna joiner cludge working.

I attempted to watch Criminal Minds on 5.1 last night and less than 5 minutes into the show I started having lockup issues. I guess lock up would not be so bad if audio would continue but it cuts out also.

I switched to analog and said the heck with HD.

Later last night I did some signal strength tests on 5.1 and found good signal at around 91 but after about a minute or two I would see it drop to 49 on me. This usually indicates multipath ghosting issues.

I tested some of the other channels and found 17.1 to be behaving the same issues as 5.1.

Of course 4.1 worked fine!

This morning I disconnected the cludge and hooked the "All" 4228 antenna up directly to the COAX going downstairs.

I than checked 5.1 and 17.1 and had no problems with drop out.

So now I am not sure what to say.

If it was a true multipath issue I would have exepcted it to be there even after I disconnected the antennajoiner and diplexer but it wasn't.

I guess I am now thinking it could be where I have the boosters located or the antennajoiner is just not working good enough to pass 4.1 only and I am getting enough bleed thru that it is causing the multipath issues.

-DONB2

Cable :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You are incorrect, I am currently watching the HD MPEG 4 for NBC, ABC, and CW.

From WRAL Station Manager it sounds like a money issue not a techinical issue. The OTA is suppose to be available late 2006. So emailing may them may help.

-----Original Message-----
From: deCourt, Chuck [mailto:CdeCourt@wral.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 2:49 PM
To:
Cc: Brandes, Matt
Subject: RE: WRAL Feedback

Dear Samuel,

Let me assure you that WRAL wants everyone in the market to be able to receive and enjoy our HD signal.

As I mentioned earlier, WRAL and WRAZ have been working with DirecTV to reach an agreement that will provide all viewers in the Raleigh market our HD signals. However, at this time DirecTV has only offered to provide the WRAL and WRAZ HD signals to less than 75% of the market which we find unacceptable. We are continuing to negotiate in good faith with DirecTV and look forward to a speedy resolution. Meanwhile, WRAL would be happy to provide you a free over the air antenna for your home.

Samuel, if you would be kind enough to provide us with your home address and phone number we will generate a signal study to determine the exact antenna required for your location. By receiving the local stations over the air, your HD picture quality will be far superior to what DirecTV or Dish will be able to provide. Also, you will be able to see the additional standard definition channels provided by the local broadcasters. WRAL and WRAZ have been providing a local 24 hour news channel and weather channel for over 4 years. You will also be able to enjoy ABC and NBC additional SD channels which are not provided by DirecTV or Dish.

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact WRAL.

Respectfully,

Chuck deCourt
Station Manager

Then the request I got for asking for the waiver:
From: deCourt, Chuck <CdeCourt@wral.com>

To:

CC: Brandes, Matt <MBrandes@wral.com>

Sent: Wed Sep 13 16:19:42 2006

Subject: RE: WRAL Feedback



Dear Samuel,



I understand your desire for a waiver. However, the pay provider you have chosen does not have the rights to provide WRAL or WRAL HD on their system. There are other choices you may make to receive WRAL and WRAZ in HD. Time Warner has the HD signals and of course we provide it free over the air.



While I appreciate your offer to drop a waiver if we were to grant it, historically, every time SHIVERA law has been renewed by congress, the distant feed subscribers have been grandfathered in. Furthermore, it is the position of WRAL and WRAZ not to grant waivers for pay systems that have not reach agreements with us.



Again, we would be happy to supply you with a free over-the-air antenna to enjoy all of the local HD channels in superior quality to DirecTV.



Respectfully,



Chuck deCourt

HI,
When I read this, I had to laugh. To the poor suckers out there who rather pay, then put an antanna up, I ask, are you stupid?
We have enjoy our free Motorola antanna from WRAL This antanna has been on our roof for 5 1/2 years receiving HD from CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, WB, and UPN (CW). One of the most enjoyable stations is THETUBE(28-2) which is what MTV was during the 80's.

So do you guys out there understand what free is.

I say one more thing.
THANKS WRAL FOR THE FREE ANTANNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

HI,
When I read this, I had to laugh. To the poor suckers out there who rather pay, then put an antanna up, I ask, are you stupid?
We have enjoy our free Motorola antanna from WRAL This antanna has been on our roof for 5 1/2 years receiving HD from CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, WB, and UPN (CW). One of the most enjoyable stations is THETUBE(28-2) which is what MTV was during the 80's.

So do you guys out there understand what free is.

I say one more thing.
THANKS WRAL FOR THE FREE ANTANNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

I'm in a low spot (in between two "hills") without a clear shot at the antennas. To make it worse, there are tons of pine trees covering the hill behind me that blocks the towers (plus a church on top of it). I get WRAL most of the time, I get NBC most of the time. FOX and ABC break up regularly (which sucks for trying to watch a Panthers game).

The antenna is as high as I can get it given my lack of roof-climbing skills. Maybe at some point I'll be able to get someone out to raise it higher for me (and maybe that'll fix the issue), but it is difficult to find someone who does antenna work, unless you are willing to fork out an arm-and-a-leg for an antenna they sell. I've already spent a fair chunk on the antenna, cable, connectors, etc.

HI,
When I read this, I had to laugh. To the poor suckers out there who rather pay, then put an antanna up, I ask, are you stupid?

<clip>

So do you guys out there understand what free is.

You might want to tone it down just a notch or two and consider this. The new DirecTV HD DVR (the non-TiVo one) does not have the OTA antenna port activated (yet, coming "soon" according to DirecTV). So no matter how free the antenna is it doesn't help folks who want their locals in HD and have the new DirecTV HD DVR. And, as the above noted, not everyone is fortunate enough to be in an area that they can actually get OTA HD (I am that lucky though).

It's funny that WRAL assumes that 100% of their DMA can get OTA (even though we know that isn't true) while being concerned that the DirecTV spot beam will "only" get to 75% of the DMA. IMHO the WRAL OTA signal can probably only get to 75% or so of the folks as well. And no fair counting cable for those folks that can't get OTA.

You might want to tone it down just a notch or two and consider this. The new DirecTV HD DVR (the non-TiVo one) does not have the OTA antenna port activated (yet, coming "soon" according to DirecTV). So no matter how free the antenna is it doesn't help folks who want their locals in HD and have the new DirecTV HD DVR.

From the tone of Bruce's post, one would think that DirectTV crippling their DVR wouldn't bother him. I imagine that he'd build his own MythTV HD DVR like some of us have already done. That is a much more "free" solution :)

Drew

Anyone located in Hillsborough? Just wondering if you can receive OTA HD signals. If so, what type of antenna do you have? I will be relocating there in the next few months.

Bruce,

You don't need to tone it down at all, in fact I think you are being polite.

So far I have been busted as being trailer trash just mentioning about a wobbly sat antenna next door to me.

I have been interrogated as to "Why would I buy a expensive HD tv and than not get some kind of pay service that would offer lots of HD channels to offset the cost of the expensive HD TV?"

And than when I post issues I am seeing with OTA I get the pet response of "Get cable".

I say to each their own.

I just happen to enjoy fooling with OTA reception. At times it is very annoying like at present when the antennajoiner I purchased does not appear to do a darn thing. But at other times I enjoy the hands on of tinkering with getting better reception.

And you can't knock the excercise I get hauling my lazy a__ up into the attic. :D

And anyway I wanted VOOM!!!!

-DonB2

I have been interrogated as to "Why would I buy a expensive HD tv and than not get some kind of pay service that would offer lots of HD channels to offset the cost of the expensive HD TV?"

And than when I post issues I am seeing with OTA I get the pet response of "Get cable".

-DonB2

I just recently bought a small indoor antenna for OTA. I will say, that's definitely the cleanest reception. I have cable (before moving here, cable, D* and OTA). "Why would I buy an expensive HDTV and than not utilize OTA reception to get the cleanest picture possible on my expensive HDTV?"

That should be the real question. :D

BTW, in the house I'm having built I have RG6 run to the attic for an antenna installation.

Jeff

Yesterday, I e-mailed Fred Dressler and asked if ESPN2HD would be added before he retires (end of 2006). His response (for what it's worth) was, "ESPN2HD looks good for this year". Of course, we've heard this before-- remember, "ESPN2HD will be added for MLB opening day", "ESPN2HD should be added for the World Cup"? Yada yada yada.

Yesterday, I e-mailed Fred Dressler and asked if ESPN2HD would be added before he retires (end of 2006). His response (for what it's worth) was, "ESPN2HD looks good for this year". Of course, we've heard this before-- remember, "ESPN2HD will be added for MLB opening day", "ESPN2HD should be added for the World Cup"? Yada yada yada.

The next question that goes along with that would be will ESPN2HD, when available, be made available to Cablecard customers......

I would doubt that DirecTV would engineer a spot beam that didn't at least cover a DMA. What about huge DMA's like Phoenix, Denver, and Salt Lake City ???? I wouldn't think the FCC would allow partial availability.

Remember that the spotbeams are like cellular towers. They are put in not the exact technically perfect spot, but where they can be located. There are technical factors as well, just like cell phone towers, because this is exactly what you are doing - reusing the same frequencies. As thus the 2 cannot overlap and generally speaking you need a seperation between adjacent spotbeams.

So you end up with mounds of technical data and put in spotbeams that give the best signal to the most areas. It's a giant rubick's cube....to which there is no 100% correct answer.

I would take a guess - and I say upfront it is only that - as I know that WRAL can be seen in the Greensboro-Winston Salem DMA and the Greenville-New Bern DMA as well, D* would not be able to supply a signal to those areas (or they have not given significant viewed stations much availablity in the past). It is possible this is what WRAL is saying, that they can be seen outside of the Raleigh DMA and those people could not legally receive the signal from D* because of CBS Copyrights by the local station or that the spotbeam does not cover those areas.

I it would not surprise me at all that 25% of WRAL's coverage is outside of the DMA given their 2000 foot tower.

Again, just speculation, and stated as such - but that would seem to be what they are talking about.

But let's face it - its all a negotiation ploy.

Quite frankly, as WRAL has invested heavily in HDTV - and early on - if any station deserves compensation for retransmission, its WRAL.

I would take a guess - and I say upfront it is only that - as I know that WRAL can be seen in the Greensboro-Winston Salem DMA and the Greenville-New Bern DMA as well, D* would not be able to supply a signal to those areas (or they have not given significant viewed stations much availablity in the past). It is possible this is what WRAL is saying, that they can be seen outside of the Raleigh DMA and those people could not legally receive the signal from D* because of CBS Copyrights by the local station or that the spotbeam does not cover those areas.

I it would not surprise me at all that 25% of WRAL's coverage is outside of the DMA given their 2000 foot tower.

Again, just speculation, and stated as such - but that would seem to be what they are talking about.

But let's face it - its all a negotiation ploy.

Quite frankly, as WRAL has invested heavily in HDTV - and early on - if any station deserves compensation for retransmission, its WRAL.

Great post and pretty right on the money in my opinion! ITA that with the investment they've made, compensation seems like a fair deal to me. One thing about CBC and WRAL, they know you have to spend money to make money! It's no wonder they were first in the nation to do HD!

Am I the only one that was having a problem with NBC17 last night? The picture and sound was awful. This was occurring on TWC 217, 218 and 6. I would think that this was a Time Warner thing except for the fact that dropouts, pixelization, etc. was only occurring on NBC channels.

Long time DirecTV subscriber looking to get an LCD TV without a tuner paired with an H20.

Now I've read that you can only receive those channels that D* puts in the guide. So the question is, which channels are those? I am close to TV Road in Garner so I would like to receive all of the channels I could get with any other tuner.

Oh, and does the tuner work at all with the 3 LNB dish? I'm not interested in MPEG4 yet, I'll wait for the slimline dish to be in circulation. Plus I couldn't get 5 and 50 anyway.

Long time DirecTV subscriber looking to get an LCD TV without a tuner paired with an H20.

Now I've read that you can only receive those channels that D* puts in the guide. So the question is, which channels are those? I am close to TV Road in Garner so I would like to receive all of the channels I could get with any other tuner.

Oh, and does the tuner work at all with the 3 LNB dish? I'm not interested in MPEG4 yet, I'll wait for the slimline dish to be in circulation. Plus I couldn't get 5 and 50 anyway.

You won't be able to get ANY OTA channels with the H20. DirecTV disabled the OTA tuner and there is no word yet on when they will (or may) enable it. So the only local HD channels you can get are the ones available via the HD LocalInLocal (LiL) on the MPEG4 stream from the satellite.

You won't be able to get ANY OTA channels with the H20.

Are you sure you mean H20 and not HR20?

Long time DirecTV subscriber looking to get an LCD TV without a tuner paired with an H20.

Now I've read that you can only receive those channels that D* puts in the guide. So the question is, which channels are those? I am close to TV Road in Garner so I would like to receive all of the channels I could get with any other tuner.

Oh, and does the tuner work at all with the 3 LNB dish? I'm not interested in MPEG4 yet, I'll wait for the slimline dish to be in circulation. Plus I couldn't get 5 and 50 anyway.

I guess you mean the HR20. As posted the OTA tuners are not yet enabled. But, I expect that won't take long. And, I think you'll want a 5 LNB dish because any new HD content on DTV is going to be MPEG4. If you want a slimline just wait until December or so. Probably the OTA tuners will be enabled by then anyway.

It stinks that Capitol Broadcasting and DTV can't get their act together for WRAL and FOX50. I wonder if they are even trying.

Are you sure you mean H20 and not HR20?

Sorry, HR20. Please don't tell me DirecTV has such a stupid naming convention that they have two totally different devices that only vary by one freakin' letter.

Sorry, HR20. Please don't tell me DirecTV has such a stupid naming convention that they have two totally different devices that only vary by one freakin' letter.

H20 is non-dvr HD receiver.

I mean the currently shipping regular HD receiver (non DVR) that as I understand has OTA enabled.

I have an R15 and would not go the DVR route for just trying out HD.

Since there are several local HD channels besides the big networks, I am interested to know which ones come in through DirecTV's OTA.

I mean the currently shipping regular HD receiver (non DVR) that as I understand has OTA enabled.

I have an R15 and would not go the DVR route for just trying out HD.

Since there are several local HD channels besides the big networks, I am interested to know which ones come in through DirecTV's OTA.

If it's like my HR10-250 you get a slew of OTA stations in the guide. I have more in the guide than I can receive.

But, I think for the H20 OTA to work you must subscribe to the DTV HD package. You can probably get a deal, but then not sure you'll get a deal again if you decide later to upgrade to HR20 and 5 LNB dish.

If you just want to just "try" HD maybe you should look for a used OTA tuner.

Am I the only one that was having a problem with NBC17 last night? The picture and sound was awful. This was occurring on TWC 217, 218 and 6. I would think that this was a Time Warner thing except for the fact that dropouts, pixelization, etc. was only occurring on NBC channels.
Your's is the only report I have seen. SD Ch 6 is a totally different feed from 217 et al, as it is analog that TWC covers with a digital SD through their boxes. If it was acting up on all, then it's either signal strength or the STB acting up.
Check all your connections and then call TWC. I'd suspect the temperature change has loosened or affected a splitter or amp in your area.
I talked with the head engineer at TWC Thursday, and they have not had any reports of issues recently either.

NBC17ENG, good to see you back. Do you know what caused Heros to have one block in SD instead of HD? This happened the past two weeks.

Your's is the only report I have seen. SD Ch 6 is a totally different feed from 217 et al, as it is analog that TWC covers with a digital SD through their boxes. If it was acting up on all, then it's either signal strength or the STB acting up.
Check all your connections and then call TWC. I'd suspect the temperature change has loosened or affected a splitter or amp in your area.
I talked with the head engineer at TWC Thursday, and they have not had any reports of issues recently either.

Law and Order (HD from TWC) from Friday night was a mess on both my DVR's. Many breakups were present. The were occuring at a rate of between 1 every 10-20 seconds to every couple minutes. I believe that is the night tommy was referrring to.

And.... welcome back!!! :)

This sucks, neither game on CBS or FOX is in HD..

Fox game is HD now.

NBC17ENG, good to see you back. Do you know what caused Heros to have one block in SD instead of HD? This happened the past two weeks.
I'm guessing human error, but don't know exactly who. The timing sheets come down from NBC at the last possible minute, and the switch triggers are entered manually by the HUB. Two weeks in a row makes me think the timing sheet may be wrong. They also missed the trigger to switch back after last weeks NFL game.

I'm off this week playing with my antenna. I'll have my folks check the DVR from Friday night to see if it did it also. Not sure what was happening. Earlier in the week NY reported a weather incident at 8:09 PM in Hero's, but it was a quick break-up just as they went to the first break in the show due to snow. I'm not sure there were any weather events Friday night though.

I'm guessing human error, but don't know exactly who. The timing sheets come down from NBC at the last possible minute, and the switch triggers are entered manually by the HUB. Two weeks in a row makes me think the timing sheet may be wrong. They also missed the trigger to switch back after last weeks NFL game.

I'm off this week playing with my antenna. I'll have my folks check the DVR from Friday night to see if it did it also. Not sure what was happening. Earlier in the week NY reported a weather incident at 8:09 PM in Hero's, but it was a quick break-up just as they went to the first break in the show due to snow. I'm not sure there were any weather events Friday night though.

So what did you do with SNF? The still shots were fantastic. The motion seemed to have less macroblocking than normal. It looked like you had noise reduction set a bit higher. Is that accurate? Overall, I thought the game looked great.

Bruce,

You don't need to tone it down at all, in fact I think you are being polite.

So far I have been busted as being trailer trash just mentioning about a wobbly sat antenna next door to me.

I have been interrogated as to "Why would I buy a expensive HD tv and than not get some kind of pay service that would offer lots of HD channels to offset the cost of the expensive HD TV?"

And than when I post issues I am seeing with OTA I get the pet response of "Get cable".

I say to each their own.

I just happen to enjoy fooling with OTA reception. At times it is very annoying like at present when the antennajoiner I purchased does not appear to do a darn thing. But at other times I enjoy the hands on of tinkering with getting better reception.

And you can't knock the excercise I get hauling my lazy a__ up into the attic. :D

And anyway I wanted VOOM!!!!

-DonB2

I'm the "get cable" guy. I'm a tinkerer too. I've got an attic full of antennas and amplifiers. But OTA is an "addition to", not an instead of. The real benefit of HD isn't realized by the limited choices and scheduling of what's on broadcast TV.

So what did you do with SNF? The still shots were fantastic. The motion seemed to have less macroblocking than normal. It looked like you had noise reduction set a bit higher. Is that accurate? Overall, I thought the game looked great.
Yes, I set noise reduction at maximum Friday, and bit rate is higher than the Olympics profile, but same as past 3 weekends. I'm trying one setting at a time to see what difference it makes. Race Saturday night is the first I missed in Charlotte in person in 2 years, but it blew me away OTA. Even the animations were crisp, and the fence and crowd scenes were showing up sharp as the cameras moved.

I'm the "get cable" guy.
This must be for those new to the forum. :)

Yes, I set noise reduction at maximum Friday, and bit rate is higher than the Olympics profile, but same as past 3 weekends. I'm trying one setting at a time to see what difference it makes. Race Saturday night is the first I missed in Charlotte in person in 2 years, but it blew me away OTA. Even the animations were crisp, and the fence and crowd scenes were showing up sharp as the cameras moved.

I'd say you are definitely on the right "track". :) I really feel sorry for others around the U.S. that aren't in touch with the engineering staff about PQ. You have made drastic improvements.

Yes, I set noise reduction at maximum Friday, and bit rate is higher than the Olympics profile, but same as past 3 weekends. I'm trying one setting at a time to see what difference it makes. Race Saturday night is the first I missed in Charlotte in person in 2 years, but it blew me away OTA. Even the animations were crisp, and the fence and crowd scenes were showing up sharp as the cameras moved.
I wish I had access to the settings before MY favorite events. ;)

I am close to TV Road in Garner so I would like to receive all of the channels I could get with any other tuner.


FOX
CBS
ABC
NBC
CW

are coming from those towers.

The HR10-250 is perfect for this sitution. HDTV and you get OTA ability.
I have two of these boxes.

If you're using a HR20, then I think the OTA channels are currently disabled, and is a "coming soon" feature.
You'll have to watch directv and call them to find out a release date. But don't hold your breath.


I'm not sure about an H20.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx
is the best place to get a list and direction.

Hopefully, you're not tooo close to the towers. I drove by them on Saturday, and within 1/2 mile my radio station (which I never tuned) picked up 3 or 4 different stations. I thought about what would happen if you lived too close to the towers.

.....................

Yes, I set noise reduction at maximum Friday, and bit rate is higher than the Olympics profile, but same as past 3 weekends. I'm trying one setting at a time to see what difference it makes. Race Saturday night is the first I missed in Charlotte in person in 2 years, but it blew me away OTA. Even the animations were crisp, and the fence and crowd scenes were showing up sharp as the cameras moved.

Absolutely... The race Saturday night looked GREAT!!!!

"I'm the "get cable" guy. I'm a tinkerer too. I've got an attic full of antennas and amplifiers. But OTA is an "addition to", not an instead of. The real benefit of HD isn't realized by the limited choices and scheduling of what's on broadcast TV. "

POSG ,

Yes I know who you are and like I said - To each their own.

And if you do indeed have an attic full of OTA equipment than maybe you could offer some advice in this direction instead of just telling me to get cable :)

-DONB

Antenna Joiner Update for who ever cares,

I emailed Channel master concerning my issues with the antenna joiner which appears to not be doing anything and they told me to mail it to them and they will check the tuning on the Joinantenna.

In addition I got thinking over the weekend that proably the Antenna Joiner requires a solid ground in order to operate correctly.

If you pop open the antenna joiner you will see a pretty heavy copper trace and heavy gauge wires tied to the what I assume is the ground side of the coax connectors.

I sent an email to Channel Master for verification on grounds.

-DonB2

So, to tack on to a comment above, do these things bother anyone else?


1) Both "local" NFL games, Panthers, and Redskins, were in SD. Haven't watched them all yet, just the first few minutes, but lets face it, HD and Football are two things that should be an understood. Why haven't networks figured this out?

2) Carolina Hurricanes. We have a local, Stanley Cup winning team right here in Raleigh. Up north if you have a team within 100 miles every game is on locals. I understand we're a Nascar state, but come'on, at least play one game a month on a local HD station. Is there a contractual reason here?

3) PBS. Everyone always tells me pointing an extra antenna towards the PBS tower is worth it for the HD science shows. I've recorded just about everything not in the childrens category that Zap2it has marked as HD (not that much, honestly). Not a single one of them seems to be in HD. Seems they're all 4:3 SD content. Am I missing something?


P.S. Yes, I'm whining, I still love OTA HD :)

Law and Order (HD from TWC) from Friday night was a mess on both my DVR's. Many breakups were present. The were occuring at a rate of between 1 every 10-20 seconds to every couple minutes. I believe that is the night tommy was referrring to.

And.... welcome back!!! :)

Law and Order via OTA friday night had the same problems. so the problem wasn't with TWC.

1) Both "local" NFL games, Panthers, and Redskins, were in SD.
Yes, I was bummed out also. You work hours on getting a system setup, and then Boom, no HD.

The afternoon game between the Jets and Dolphins was HD. Good to watch the quality, but with no vested interest..................not much fun.

The NFL needs to get on the HD wagon, period.

Yes, I was bummed out also. You work hours on getting a system setup, and then Boom, no HD.

The afternoon game between the Jets and Dolphins was HD. Good to watch the quality, but with no vested interest..................not much fun.

The NFL needs to get on the HD wagon, period.


Gee.... you had to bring that game up..... My poor Dolphins.....

In addition I got thinking over the weekend that proably the Antenna Joiner requires a solid ground in order to operate correctly.

Don2B....

Yeah, the ground might be good to add-on.

I pointed my 4228 at <pbs> this weekend. I had to place it on the chimney to get better signal (aka, move it along the roofline)
I got the cable run into the attic, but haven't hooked it in yet.

My new theory is this:

The JoinTenna is supposed to work, but as we recentlyh found out ........ not inside a +/- 5 channel range.

So 59 subtract 5 is 54.

So that means I concerned myself with 57 and 55, as far as channels that would still come in on the <pbs> antenna and mess up the JoinTenna and its <59> configuration.

So when I pointed the 4228 at <pbs> I also aimed it so I was (purposely) getting almost no signal from 57 and no signal from 55.

I'm hoping that when I get it wired into the JoinTenna, that the <all> antenna will actually be the only antenna supplying 57 and 55 (as well as 53,52,49).
Aka, my 57 and 55 signal is coming from the <all> antenna, and not the <pbs> antenna.

Since the JoinTenna is ~supposed to work above +/- 5 channels, then 53,52,49 ~~should get blocked by the JOIN Tenna.

I'll let you know. I ran out of time ........ and didn't get it all wired together.

I'm hoping since I concentrated on getting rid of 57 and 55 signal on the <pbs> antenna, it'll all work.

:::::Fingers crossed again:::::::::::

"3) PBS. Everyone always tells me pointing an extra antenna towards the PBS tower is worth it for the HD science shows. I've recorded just about everything not in the childrens category that Zap2it has marked as HD (not that much, honestly). Not a single one of them seems to be in HD. Seems they're all 4:3 SD content. Am I missing something?"

I have been confused as to how PBS does the multicast line up.

For example last night at 8pm when they begin the HD broadcasting on 4.2 I was able to view the Nature show at 8pm on 4.1 in 4:3 or on 4.2 in HD. But than at 9pm the Casanova Masterpiece Theatre was only available in 4.1 4:3 mode.

I would think the prime time line up would always be showcased in HD but I guess I think wrong.

OK maybe Casanova was not filmed in HD. But on other occasions I have seen shows start stating they were filmed HD but it is only available on the Digital 4.1 channel and not on the 4.2 HD channel between 8 and 11pm.

_DonB2

So, to tack on to a comment above, do these things bother anyone else?


1) Both "local" NFL games, Panthers, and Redskins, were in SD. Haven't watched them all yet, just the first few minutes, but lets face it, HD and Football are two things that should be an understood. Why haven't networks figured this out?

2) Carolina Hurricanes. We have a local, Stanley Cup winning team right here in Raleigh. Up north if you have a team within 100 miles every game is on locals. I understand we're a Nascar state, but come'on, at least play one game a month on a local HD station. Is there a contractual reason here?

3) PBS. Everyone always tells me pointing an extra antenna towards the PBS tower is worth it for the HD science shows. I've recorded just about everything not in the childrens category that Zap2it has marked as HD (not that much, honestly). Not a single one of them seems to be in HD. Seems they're all 4:3 SD content. Am I missing something?


P.S. Yes, I'm whining, I still love OTA HD :)

1) Panthers were in HD on Sunday. You just didn't watch long enough. Who cares about the Redskins?

2) Hurricanes have been on in HD several times this year. The last game was on FSN-South HD. It was available on TWC - INHD2. Since FSN has rights to the game, we won't see them on local stations as a general rule.

3) Are you watching on 4.2? HD programming starts at 8:00 pm nightly.

FOX NFL was in HD all day on WGHP.

1) Both "local" NFL games, Panthers, and Redskins, were in SD.

Yeah, not that you mention it. ..... the Panthers ~started in SD, but somewhere it got switched to HD.

So my comment was on the initial broadcast quality. But I stand corrected.

I did see most of the game in HD.

Ok... so this weekend:
Panthers = HD
Washington/Titans = SD
Jets/Fins = HD
Raiders/Denver = HD
and tonight
daBears / Cardinals = HD (for those with ESPN-HD)

So 4 out of 5 isn't bad.

"I'm the "get cable" guy. I'm a tinkerer too. I've got an attic full of antennas and amplifiers. But OTA is an "addition to", not an instead of. The real benefit of HD isn't realized by the limited choices and scheduling of what's on broadcast TV. "

POSG ,

Yes I know who you are and like I said - To each their own.

And if you do indeed have an attic full of OTA equipment than maybe you could offer some advice in this direction instead of just telling me to get cable :)

-DONB

I'd try this. Aim your channel 59 antenna in the appropriate direction, next go through the jointenna, then go through an amplifier, then combine with your 4228. If you are having problems with 55 and 57, pad the output of the jointenna with a 10 db pad and see what happens.

It would be helpful to know your general location.

I may come across as a smart ass, but I am actually a pretty decent guy and will be more than happy to help you out anyway I can. Send a private message and I'll see what I can do.

1) Panthers were in HD on Sunday. You just didn't watch long enough. Who cares about the Redskins?

2) Hurricanes have been on in HD several times this year. The last game was on FSN-South HD. It was available on TWC - INHD2. Since FSN has rights to the game, we won't see them on local stations as a general rule.

3) Are you watching on 4.2? HD programming starts at 8:00 pm nightly.


1) Good to hear, look forward to seeing it. As for Redskins, they were my home team prior to the Panthers being established.

2) Ahh, so with FSN's rights, it could very well be a contractual issue. I have OTA HD with a MythTV setup, no HD service through my DirecTV. I'm generally "not around" to watch TV, and don't want a DirecTV DVR and a Myth setup, so was hoping locals would pick them up at some point.

3) This could very well be... I'm using channel 59, with listings from XMLTV ID 30645. Is there a different channel I should be using?


Thanks for the info.

Im assuming this was a local problem as there were no complaints in the Heroes thread, but is there a reason NBC 17 has to drop to SD for at least a block of Heroes every week? This is two weeks in a row....it used to be a regular thing for them, but its been so long I thought they had finally jumped that hurdle.

make that 3 weeks in a row that we've lost HD and 5.1 ... someone at NBC really hates that show. Whoever pushes the button to drop to NBC17 SD promos at 9.40pm doesn't come back until Studio 60 is on.

One week I can let it go, but three weeks in exactly the same place every week is pissing me off now.

Join Antenna continued,

Since I got the Joinantenna disconnected I believe I will pay and have it shipped to channel master to make sure it is calibrated correctly.

By the way I wrote CM a second time yesterday about grounding issue and they have not yet replied. I would really like and answer on the grounding issue before I ship it off.

POSG,

The antenna I have pointed at PBS is a Square Shooter with the built in booster.

Not sure if the built in booster would cause issues with the Join antenna or not.

-DonB2

make that 3 weeks in a row that we've lost HD and 5.1 ... someone at NBC really hates that show. Whoever pushes the button to drop to NBC17 SD promos at 9.40pm doesn't come back until Studio 60 is on.

One week I can let it go, but three weeks in exactly the same place every week is pissing me off now.
Happened to me too. :(

Join Antenna continued,

Since I got the Joinantenna disconnected I believe I will pay and have it shipped to channel master to make sure it is calibrated correctly.

By the way I wrote CM a second time yesterday about grounding issue and they have not yet replied. I would really like and answer on the grounding issue before I ship it off.

POSG,

The antenna I have pointed at PBS is a Square Shooter with the built in booster.

Not sure if the built in booster would cause issues with the Join antenna or not.

-DonB2

The square shooter is boosting ALL channels. Unless you attenuate the undesired ones, mixing them with your 4228 will cause all kinds of problems. Going through the jointenna will help some, but probably not enough. You should always get rid of the undesired signals before the amplification stage. That is why I suggested putting the jointenna in front of an amplifier to act as a bandpass filter rather than a mixer. The trick is to get these signals balanced properly so that the signals from the different antennas don't interfere with each other.

The jointenna was really not designed to deal with situations where the desired and undesired channels are as close to each other as the are in your application.

Here is a link that shows reception patterns of various antennas. (use clickable sublinks to see individual antennas)

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Find an antenna that has as much of a null towards the undesired channels as you can. Sometimes using an antenna with a broader beamwidth pointing slightly off of the desired channel, but maximizing the null towards the undesired channel will do the trick.

The Square Shooter is probably next to useless for your application. You might be better off using the 4228 for 59 and the Square Shooter for everything else.

"The Square Shooter is probably next to useless for your application. You might be better off using the 4228 for 59 and the Square Shooter for everything else. "

POSG,

I have been thinking about selling the Powered Square Shooter and replacing it with a CM model.

-DonB2

I have an older HR10-250 Direct TV system and their HD package. In looking at the D* site, I see some of the locals in this area are listed as being HD, but I didn't think the MPEG-4 systems had been rolled out in the Raleigh area. In browsing this thread, it appears the ones that are available are national feeds. Are these non-MPEG4? If so, is there any way for me to pick those feeds up with my system? If they are national feeds, I assume I would lose local programming going with a national feed. True?

I have an older HR10-250 Direct TV system and their HD package. In looking at the D* site, I see some of the locals in this area are listed as being HD, but I didn't think the MPEG-4 systems had been rolled out in the Raleigh area. In browsing this thread, it appears the ones that are available are national feeds. Are these non-MPEG4? If so, is there any way for me to pick those feeds up with my system? If they are national feeds, I assume I would lose local programming going with a national feed. True?

I'm not 100%, but I think the deal is:

There are some national feeds. However, you have to be completely outside of any local zone. Which, around WRAL you are not.
Pretend you were in Bumpkinville, NC...

Ok... the MPEG4 stuff. I think some LA's markets have it. And they can tap into it.

An HR10-250 is only mpeg2 capable. It will ~never be mpeg4 capable.

This is one of the differences between the "tivo" HR10-250 and the new directv non-tivo HR20.

Your options are the directv HD package.
And OTA for locals.

This is a combination of you being "in the zone" (aka, OTA capable) and because you don't have a mpeg4 capable receiver.

IF/WHEN our locals go to MPEG4 (I'm talking about OTA local networks) then the HR10-250 becomes obsolete.
There's debate about how soon this might happen. I have an HR10-250 and I"m not worried about it that much.

I don't think you (or me) are eligible for the national feeds.
You can call and ask, but thats my take.

Again, I'm kinda sure, but not uber sure.

The H20 receiver is MPEG2/4. The HR20 is the DVR that has MPEG2/4 and it is available now. Several have been installed in Greensboro.

I have an older HR10-250 Direct TV system and their HD package. In looking at the D* site, I see some of the locals in this area are listed as being HD, but I didn't think the MPEG-4 systems had been rolled out in the Raleigh area. In browsing this thread, it appears the ones that are available are national feeds. Are these non-MPEG4? If so, is there any way for me to pick those feeds up with my system? If they are national feeds, I assume I would lose local programming going with a national feed. True?

HR20-700 does MPEG2 and MPEG4 and is available in this area. However, the OTA tuners are not enabled at this time. They are supposed to be enabled sometime later this year.

HR10-250 does not do MPEG4, but does do OTA tuning.

in this area, it is highly unlikely for you to get the waivers that will allow you to recieve the mpeg 2 national feeds. you can try by calling directv and they will ask for the waivers. but seriously, you will not get them from the local stations.

The mpeg4 locals are sent via spotbeam. NBC-17 and ABC-11 are available in HD via MPEG4. CBS-5(WRAL) and FOX-50(WRAZ) HD are not available via MPEG4. the reason they aren't available is directv and WRAL/WRAZ are having a squabble concerning the number of directv subscribers that WRAL/WRAZ feel are in their DMA reachable by antenna, but will not be able to get the mpeg4 feeds via the spotbeam.

so right now, you can't get FOX and CBS in HD in this area if you have an HR20-700 because they aren't on the satellite, and the OTA tuners aren't enabled. at this time, HR10-250 with OTA antenna is the way to go in this area.

Ok... Good directv, HR10 and HR20 explanation for this area.
Thanks!


Just to complete the thought.

With the HR10-250, you can use a 3LNB dish, and an antenna for OTA.
The elliptical dish thats been around for a while:
http://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/OD1820-BX_zoom.gif


When you get into the mpeg4, you have to upgrade to the dish that can receive from 5 satellites, or the DIRECTV Five LNB Ka/Ku Dish Antenna for MPEG-4 Compression
HD Programming (AT9).
http://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/AT59_det_zoomA.gifhttp://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/AT59.gif

Did anyone catch the show on PBS last night about the future of Digital TV?

It was on about 10:30pm.

Talked a lot about the freeing up of the old analog channels. I don't recall if they explained why analog channels will be available for reselling compared to why they won't be needed in the future for additional Digital Channels.

-DonB2

posg ,

Thanks for that URL for the antennas.

Interesting reading.

-DonB2

posg ,

Thanks for that URL for the antennas.

Interesting reading.

-DonB2

Test next Thurday. :D :D :D

Your's is the only report I have seen. SD Ch 6 is a totally different feed from 217 et al, as it is analog that TWC covers with a digital SD through their boxes. If it was acting up on all, then it's either signal strength or the STB acting up.
Check all your connections and then call TWC. I'd suspect the temperature change has loosened or affected a splitter or amp in your area.
I talked with the head engineer at TWC Thursday, and they have not had any reports of issues recently either.

Thanks for your reply. It has only happen that one time. It's been fine since them. Guess I'll just dismiss it as the "ghost in the machine" :rolleyes:

3) This could very well be... I'm using channel 59, with listings from XMLTV ID 30645. Is there a different channel I should be using?

So I'm still trying to figure this out on my MythTV box. As far as I can tell, I've got everything set up right. All my other stations come in fine as HD except PBS, which for channel 59 I pick up a "decent" signal but it only comes through in 4:3 when it should be HD. Since my tuner doesn't have "4.1" and "4.2", how can I be sure I'm on the right channel?

And for those of you who are getting HD on PBS, is it 4:3 or 16:9 feeds?

make that 3 weeks in a row that we've lost HD and 5.1 ... someone at NBC really hates that show. Whoever pushes the button to drop to NBC17 SD promos at 9.40pm doesn't come back until Studio 60 is on.

One week I can let it go, but three weeks in exactly the same place every week is pissing me off now.
On the bright side, we'll be pulling the plug on the NBC HUB in about a month. We then plug into the brand new Media General HUB. Might create a new problem, but the MG HUB is a lot better design, and managed a lot better. Time will tell....

On the bright side, we'll be pulling the plug on the NBC HUB in about a month. We then plug into the brand new Media General HUB. Might create a new problem, but the MG HUB is a lot better design, and managed a lot better. Time will tell....

I can tell you that the Media General NBC station in Tampa competes daily with the Gannett CBS affilate to see who can be the biggest embarrassment to HD in a Top 50 market (Which is interesting as Tampa is the #12 Television DMA).

As I believe that is Media General's biggest station, god help you.

On the bright side, we'll be pulling the plug on the NBC HUB in about a month. We then plug into the brand new Media General HUB. Might create a new problem, but the MG HUB is a lot better design, and managed a lot better. Time will tell....
Tell us more. Need more info Please. Locations, Names, give it all up. :D

Bruce,

You don't need to tone it down at all, in fact I think you are being polite.

So far I have been busted as being trailer trash just mentioning about a wobbly sat antenna next door to me.

I have been interrogated as to "Why would I buy a expensive HD tv and than not get some kind of pay service that would offer lots of HD channels to offset the cost of the expensive HD TV?"

And than when I post issues I am seeing with OTA I get the pet response of "Get cable".

I say to each their own.

I just happen to enjoy fooling with OTA reception. At times it is very annoying like at present when the antennajoiner I purchased does not appear to do a darn thing. But at other times I enjoy the hands on of tinkering with getting better reception.

And you can't knock the excercise I get hauling my lazy a__ up into the attic. :D

And anyway I wanted VOOM!!!!

-DonB2

I'm with you guys. People often forget that you are paying for a service or access to programming. If the programming or access you want is provided for free why pay for it.

In our case we started out in a new house which was not wired for cable in 2001 and got Standard TWC to satisfy my wife and my need for PBS and certain programming (mostly movies). In doing that our house got wired from the street (in our case the house is in the middle of an acre of property) to the box(es) for free with an annual standard cable subscription commitment at a discount rate ($25/month). At the end of the year (when the bill hit $40/month) we switched to limited basic ($11.95/month) and joined Netflix. We also bought our first new TV (Samsung 26" CRT HDTV 16:9) for about $500, about a month later bought a open box Samsung T151($125), and a Zenith Silver sensor($35). After a six month trial (and convincing my sceptical wife to cut the cable, God forbid) we went totally OTA and put antennas in the attic.

Our 3 kids are now 4 years old (twins), and 20 months . What do we watch the majority of the time on TV prior to 8pm => PBS Kids or movies. Do we want Nickleodean, Disney channel, Animal Planet, and the wave of programming on cable or satellite? No thank you. Maybe as the kids get older we would get satellite for a single supervised access point in the home for shows like the Discovery Channel and other educational shows, but not now. I am hoping when that day comes ala carte programming will be available. But give up on OTA. Never!!!

So, to tack on to a comment above, do these things bother anyone else?


2) Carolina Hurricanes. We have a local, Stanley Cup winning team right here in Raleigh. Up north if you have a team within 100 miles every game is on locals. I understand we're a Nascar state, but come'on, at least play one game a month on a local HD station. Is there a contractual reason here?

P.S. Yes, I'm whining, I still love OTA HD :)

I don't know about the contract, but you bring up a good point. In fact in 2002-3 (?) WRAL and/or Fox used to carry the games. I forget if they were home and away, but the home games on WRAL were defintely in HD. During this time FOX also used to broadcast HDNet prior to 5pm daily.

Bring back the hockey

The HDNET that stations would broadcast during the day was not the same as HDNET via cable or DBS. It was a different feed of more material they owned - or had cheaper rights cost for.

Has anyone else noticed that the TWC boxes go to channel 14 (TW News) on power up now? I have two boxes and both power up on 14 even though the power up channel in my settings is set to default which use to mean it started up on the channel it was set to on power off. No biggie, but this is a very sneaky way to pimp their own channel.

Has anyone else noticed that the TWC boxes go to channel 14 (TW News) on power up now? I have two boxes and both power up on 14 even though the power up channel in my settings is set to default which use to mean it started up on the channel it was set to on power off. No biggie, but this is a very sneaky way to pimp their own channel.
You can set it to power up to any channel you choose. The default is probably channel 14. I have mine set to LAST (the last channel it was on when powered off) under My Preferences when turned on manually. And I have Power On Timer under Timers set to auto power on to channel 33 at 6am.

Has anyone else noticed that the TWC boxes go to channel 14 (TW News) on power up now? I have two boxes and both power up on 14 even though the power up channel in my settings is set to default which use to mean it started up on the channel it was set to on power off. No biggie, but this is a very sneaky way to pimp their own channel.

I don't ever turn mine off.

Has anyone else noticed that the TWC boxes go to channel 14 (TW News) on power up now? I have two boxes and both power up on 14 even though the power up channel in my settings is set to default which use to mean it started up on the channel it was set to on power off. No biggie, but this is a very sneaky way to pimp their own channel.

yep, i noticed that tonight too. They are sneaky indeed. I wonder if anything else on our boxes updated, or if they just changed that setting.

I flipped it to "last channel" and all is good again.

yep, i noticed that tonight too. They are sneaky indeed. I wonder if anything else on our boxes updated, or if they just changed that setting.

I flipped it to "last channel" and all is good again.

I haven't ever noticed the "Last Channel" setting before. Mine was set on "Default" which always turned on to the last channel. I changed my setting and all is well now.

I have a question about a trap/filter and I seem to remember that we have a couple folks that hang out here with cable plant experience.

There is a person who has an inline cable trap/filter with pn TNB6-40P10/18. This trap is old and was placed and then later removed by the cableco. Searches indicate that this trap was perhaps made by PPC but no further information can be found other than it may be a 'window' trap. PPC website doesnt have any info.

Any ideas what this beast is and what it would be fore? Perhaps a 6-40Mhz passband with a blocking window at 10-18 Mhz? or a 6-40Mhz block but with a passband window at 10-18Mhz.

The reason I ask.... The new Tivo Series 3 DVR's are having issues with audio and video dropouts on digital SD and HD. The person with the trap claims that adding it to the S3 input cable eliminates the problem. Seems unlikely to me since the frequencies of interest seem to be in the return path which isnt used by the Tivo unless those frequencies being present is messing up the Tivo tuner.

Any ideas appreciated....

Thanks,
Don

Had a meeting today with a Senior Manager from DirecTV. Although not the subject of the meeting, I questioned him on the WRAL/WRAZ HD issue. He was quite confused and concerned, and although the situation is well outside his area of responsibility, he said he would dig into it and get some answers. I'll keep you posted.

I have a question about a trap/filter and I seem to remember that we have a couple folks that hang out here with cable plant experience.

There is a person who has an inline cable trap/filter with pn TNB6-40P10/18. This trap is old and was placed and then later removed by the cableco. Searches indicate that this trap was perhaps made by PPC but no further information can be found other than it may be a 'window' trap. PPC website doesnt have any info.

Any ideas what this beast is and what it would be fore? Perhaps a 6-40Mhz passband with a blocking window at 10-18 Mhz? or a 6-40Mhz block but with a passband window at 10-18Mhz.

The reason I ask.... The new Tivo Series 3 DVR's are having issues with audio and video dropouts on digital SD and HD. The person with the trap claims that adding it to the S3 input cable eliminates the problem. Seems unlikely to me since the frequencies of interest seem to be in the return path which isnt used by the Tivo unless those frequencies being present is messing up the Tivo tuner.

Any ideas appreciated....

Thanks,
Don

You're analysis of the bandpass of the trap is likely correct. The trap should also not influence his described symptom one way or another.

You're analysis of the bandpass of the trap is likely correct. The trap should also not influence his described symptom one way or another.

Thanks.... Which one of the 'guesses' would you expect to be right... a 10-18Mhz bandpass or bandreject?

Thanks.... Which one of the 'guesses' would you expect to be right... a 10-18Mhz bandpass or bandreject?

Bandpass. If it was bandreject, it wouldn't have indicated 5-40. Just a guess. These types of traps are common to prevent ingress from polluting the return path. In a cable system the downstream path is analogous to a fresh water supply, while the return path is analogous to a sewer. :)

Unfortunately, not found at PPC website:
http://www.ppc-online.com/products/trap_line/
Note that "B" or "R" is used to identify the Band Reject filter freqs and "P" identifies Band Pass freqs.

It can be found here:
http://www.catvservices.com/inventory.cfm
PPC TNB6-40P8/10 TINY 6P WINDOW PATH FILTER 0-40MHZ, PASS 8-10MHZ, 1GHZ

So it seems to be a filter that blocks noise from being injected into the cable system's reverse path (6-40 MHz),
but passes 8-10 MHz (probably for Cable Modem) back to the cable headend....and presumably passes all freqs above 40 MHz....
Could also be used to prevent RFI from being injected into the reverse path when connecting a conventional TV or VCR directly to cable.

Probably "similiar" to fol "Window" filter, except with different freqs:
http://www.soontai.com/WF-M.html

Thanks Guys.... I appreciate it. So the consensus is that the trap I referenced is a 6-40 Mhz band reject with a pass band notch between 10-18Mhz. So if the tuner in the Tivo is being affected by the return path 'sewer' then this filter may help the situation. However, a more simple HPF such as the PPC SHP3-50 or THP3-50 or the Soontai HPF2-50 would be a better fit. The next question is where to get any of those in quantity 1. Ideas?

Thanks Guys.... I appreciate it. So the consensus is that the trap I referenced is a 6-40 Mhz band reject with a pass band notch between 10-18Mhz. So if the tuner in the Tivo is being affected by the return path 'sewer' then this filter may help the situation. However, a more simple HPF such as the PPC SHP3-50 or THP3-50 or the Soontai HPF2-50 would be a better fit. The next question is where to get any of those in quantity 1. Ideas?
You could call Toner Cable for price on Eagle filters:
http://www.tonercable.com/Product.aspx?ID=954

However, you might consider this Pico-Macom HPFO-54MHZ high pass filter that's on sale:
http://www.audio-discounters.com/hpfo-54mhz.html
http://www.picomacom.com/products/display_pico.asp?txtSearch=PMC30
Also available via on-line order ($15 plus $12 handling fee):
http://www.picomacom.com/macom/home/
http://www.picomacom.com/macom/storefront/storefront.htm

You could call Toner Cable for price on Eagle filters:
http://www.tonercable.com/Product.aspx?ID=954

However, you might consider this Pico-Macom HPFO-54MHZ high pass filter that's on sale:
http://www.audio-discounters.com/hpfo-54mhz.html
http://www.picomacom.com/products/display_pico.asp?txtSearch=PMC30
Also available via on-line order ($15 plus $12 handling fee):
http://www.picomacom.com/macom/home/
http://www.picomacom.com/macom/storefront/storefront.htm

Thanks!!!!

Found these on ebay

http://www.ppc-online.com/products/trap_line/ingress/SHP.php

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190035927276&rd=1&rd=1

change ***** to ebay dot com

I think 25 will be enough..... I could stack up a 'big ole filter' :D

Im not convinced that this will fix the problem though. I am straight connected to a line amp which should have good port to port isolation and the amp shouldnt apply any gain to the return frequencies. However... one person claims that it fixed hers so what the heck... ill give it a try.

On the bright side, we'll be pulling the plug on the NBC HUB in about a month. We then plug into the brand new Media General HUB. Might create a new problem, but the MG HUB is a lot better design, and managed a lot better. Time will tell....

and on the other bright side Heroes stayed HD this week so if you nudged someone or something thanks for that. :)

and on the other bright side Heroes stayed HD this week so if you nudged someone or something thanks for that. :)

Lucky you....the Media General Geniuses in Tampa screwed up the entire show - upconverting the SD feed.

That Media General hub will be.......interesting.

and on the other bright side Heroes stayed HD this week so if you nudged someone or something thanks for that. :)
I haven't finished scanning my DVR yet, but it appears they got the 3 episodes of Heros NBC ran Sunday night back to back correct also.
As you may already know, we have been running tests the last several weekends tweaking settings for weekend sports, using AVSForum members and station staff as home judges of the affects. Last weekend, we anilhalated 17-2 and gave 17-1 the highest bit rate to date. We did not notice any improvement over the previous weekend, which seems to be the optimum setting. TWC did get numerous complaints about PQ on 218 (17-1) Sigh. Yes, somebody is watching it. We will continue running the sports bit rates on the weekend, and regular bit rates during the week.
We also found a "glitch" that older generation 1 receiver chips reacted to, that newer STB's do not. I was able to confirm it on TWC, and we tweaked some more. It may be part of the macro blocking you guys have seen. On TWC, the picture blocked up, especially in the center "action" part of the picture, exactly like the bit starvation being reported, or a quick rf drop out from an antenna. I have not seen it since.
OTA, last weekend's best HD football came from WNCT in Greenville. The blimp shots were amazing, and motion artifacts almost none. There was a huge difference between them and WRAL!
Worst has to go to WITN. I told them NOT to turn on that second SD, and they did it anyway. No body ever listens to me! Their HD was blocking up bigtime!
NBC in general had some disappointments. Their blimp shots were definitely up-converted NTSC widescreen, fuzzy, and little detail. HD cameras looked good, but they are definitely using shots they should not mix in with HD.

We did not notice any improvement over the previous weekend, which seems to be the optimum setting. TWC did get numerous complaints about PQ on 218 (17-1) Sigh. Yes, somebody is watching it. We will continue running the sports bit rates on the weekend, and regular bit rates during the week.


Great job...btw, just shut off the 480i station during the weekend. Instruct TWC to point whomever to the lower channel. It has the same content. I really appreciate the efforts you've gone to with this problem. I have to say, I'm truly impressed that someone actually listens. Part of the problem with ND football may be the venue itself. I'm not sure how its' "wired", but SNF always looks significantly better.

Jeff

TWC did get numerous complaints about PQ on 218 (17-1) Sigh. Yes, somebody is watching it. We will continue running the sports bit rates on the weekend, and regular bit rates during the week.
BTW, TWC 218 = OTA 17-2. :)

Nice work on the tweaking too. ;)

I haven't finished scanning my DVR yet, but it appears they got the 3 episodes of Heros NBC ran Sunday night back to back correct also.
As you may already know, we have been running tests the last several weekends tweaking settings for weekend sports, using AVSForum members and station staff as home judges of the affects. Last weekend, we anilhalated 17-2 and gave 17-1 the highest bit rate to date. We did not notice any improvement over the previous weekend, which seems to be the optimum setting. TWC did get numerous complaints about PQ on 218 (17-1) Sigh. Yes, somebody is watching it. We will continue running the sports bit rates on the weekend, and regular bit rates during the week.
We also found a "glitch" that older generation 1 receiver chips reacted to, that newer STB's do not. I was able to confirm it on TWC, and we tweaked some more. It may be part of the macro blocking you guys have seen. On TWC, the picture blocked up, especially in the center "action" part of the picture, exactly like the bit starvation being reported, or a quick rf drop out from an antenna. I have not seen it since.
OTA, last weekend's best HD football came from WNCT in Greenville. The blimp shots were amazing, and motion artifacts almost none. There was a huge difference between them and WRAL!
Worst has to go to WITN. I told them NOT to turn on that second SD, and they did it anyway. No body ever listens to me! Their HD was blocking up bigtime!
NBC in general had some disappointments. Their blimp shots were definitely up-converted NTSC widescreen, fuzzy, and little detail. HD cameras looked good, but they are definitely using shots they should not mix in with HD.

Will the "popcorn" in the audio go away with the switch to the Media General hub, or do we just have to learn to live with it?

Will the "popcorn" in the audio go away with the switch to the Media General hub, or do we just have to learn to live with it?
Yes, that will definitely go away. You will have to supply your own popcorn.

So far, SNF looks spectacular. Thanks NBC17ENG!

Still looking at Dish, am Im a little concerned about only being able to DVR 1 OTA channel at a time considering that most of the HD programs I record (minus sports) are on network channels. Are we able to receive any distant HD networks in the Raleigh market? And is this an extra cost?

nO ON diSH ON dISTANTS, It has been rumoured that Dish will start carrying the Raleigh Networks in HD "soon" - date "to be announced".

Not even ABC? I thought you were at least eligible for those networks where the local station is an O&O.
And the locals via Dish seems pointless as both CBC stations arent carried via DirecTV (same with Dish most likely?) and we all know Sinclairs opinion of carriage of their digital signals.

What are channels 27 and 57? In trying to hunt through this thread I think they are UPN and WB, but are they HD channels? AntennaWeb doesn't seem to have them listed. Specifically, what would they be on this list:

http://www.triangletuners.com/tmp/Listings.gif

*edit*

Nevermind, I figured out what I was looking at wrong. I'm just stupid :)

Thanks!

No more Set Top Box OTA ATSC Tuners at Circuit City

I just got back from Circuit City off of 15 501 and was dissapointed to see no STB TV tuners for sale.

The salesman was not even sure when they would see more of them

-DonB2