Raleigh, NC - HDTV [Text View] - Page 27

DonB2

10-31-06, 03:31 PM

I found this avsforum post in a round about way doing a google search:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392

It discusses the Samsung DTB-H260F which I was hoping to see at Circuit City.

Looks like I should have gone to BB which I find interesting as last year I saw barely any STB's at BB only Direct TV boxes and now Circuit City has no ATSC STB's on display but has plenty of Direct TV choices.

I am interested in the Samsung DTB-H260F because of its latest generation chip set that supposedly handles Multipath very well.

CCsoftball7,

Does your LG tuner (D*) do QAM?

-DonB2

CCsoftball7

11-01-06, 08:23 AM

Does your LG tuner (D*) do QAM?

I don't think so. Actually, I think I have a Sony SAT-HD200. I sent my LG up North to my brother.

Jeff

DonB2

11-01-06, 11:07 AM

"I don't think so. Actually, I think I have a Sony SAT-HD200. I sent my LG up North to my brother."

Jeff,

That is too funny as that is what I did with my Samsung SIR t 451- sent it up North to my brother.

DonB2

Daryl L

11-01-06, 01:00 PM

Some here mentioned that recently their TWC cable boxes started defaulting to cable channel 14 (new channel 14) when first turned on. Well, apparently it was a mistake to soon be corrected. If you go Here (http://www.wral.com/video/7327721/detail.html), select NEWS in the dropdown field on the left, scroll down and find the report titled Time Warner To Undo Making Its Channel Cable Default you can see a report about it.

CarlRx

11-02-06, 08:32 AM

With an 8300, is it possible these days to add an eSATA drive to expand storage?

I'm having a difficult time finding a solid answer.

Thanks!

--Carl

drewwho

11-03-06, 06:40 AM

Did anybody else experience lots of breakups during Earl and the Office last night?

I replaced the wireless card in my HTPC yesterday, and to have problems with the first recordings made after putting new hardware into the system seems like too much of a coincidence. Then again, recordings made on WRAL and WRAZ last night were fine. I wonder if a PCI wireless a/b/g nic could throw off enough interference to introduce problems on some channels but not others..

Thanks,

Drew

kirkusinnc

11-03-06, 07:40 AM

For me, NBC 17 was unwatchable during ER last night either via 217 or 218 on TWC or over the air on 17.1 and 17.2. They clearly were having some kind of problem. I ended up switching to the analog broadcast to watch...

Yerp

11-03-06, 07:45 AM

Thank goodness the NBC 17 problem wasn't just me!

I had to switch to analog last night to watch Earl and the Office as well. I tried again this morning, and I still had problems with 17.1 and 17.2 (unencrypted QAM).

I wonder what the issue is? Hopefully NBC17ENG will see these posts :)

I'm just glad it wasn't my hdtv acting up :)

NBC17ENG

11-03-06, 07:58 AM

Sorry to be quick and short, but I was working on it until 2:30 this morning, and I'm heading back in now. We have a failure in both our microwave links between the studio and the transmitter. The issue began around 7:30 last evening and pregressively got worse. I will have more manpower this morning to help find a resolution. Hang tight and please continue to be patient. We're working on it as fast as we can.

CCsoftball7

11-03-06, 08:08 AM

SouthPaW1227

11-03-06, 09:25 AM

posg

11-03-06, 09:55 AM

drewwho

11-03-06, 10:00 AM

We have a failure in both our microwave links between the studio and the transmitter. The issue began around 7:30 last evening and pregressively got worse.

Thanks for the update, we appreciate it!

Drew

NBC17ENG

11-03-06, 10:28 AM

Back to normal as of an hour ago around 9:45 AM.

Daryl L

11-03-06, 11:45 AM

Back to normal as of an hour ago around 9:45 AM.
Much appreciated . :)

jspENC

11-03-06, 02:05 PM

Hey folks, I'm hoping to be moving back to NC soon, but was wondering something & couldn't find it via search.

In Fayetteville (zip 28311), can I get the 4 Raleigh/Durham locals (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC) with just a simple, indoor antenna? AntennaWeb thinks so, but I wanted actual experience if possible...thanks!

Yes you can. I have family that live right off US 401 in Northern Fayetteville. I took my
STB and a simple bow-tie indoor antenna when I visited one time and got all the Raleigh channels and the Lumberton PBS's plus WFPX DT

SouthPaW1227

11-03-06, 02:09 PM

^ Nice! Thanks! :)

HDTVFanAtic

11-03-06, 02:46 PM

Lee L

11-03-06, 03:18 PM

Not happy you have to deal with issues, but it is a good thing this was not on my end. I was worried I had massive antenna problems when I had issues on all my Receivers.

NBC17ENG

11-03-06, 10:18 PM

Not happy you have to deal with issues, but it is a good thing this was not on my end. I was worried I had massive antenna problems when I had issues on all my Receivers.
That's why I try to post here as soon as I can when I know there's a problem to alert as many viewers as possible, but to be honest at 2:30 this morning, I was emailing help requests instead of posting, so I hope you understand I didn't post until this morning. I love the email alerts when a new post is added from this site. That's a great tool. I really appreciate everyone's understanding and patience. Only one person sent a rude email describing how much he spent on his system just to have me screw it up. Believe me, the first night of ratings is not the time I'd pick to insert a problem like this.

The microwave system is an MRC Twinstream with a fairly short 7 Gig hop from North Raleigh. Both analog and digital streams ride on the same microwave, along with a T1 LAN and bidirectional serial data lines. The problems were actually a SMPTE 310 distribution amp at the transmitter end, and a data modem at the station. Strangely unrelated, yet interconnected, and unpredictable.

HDTVFanAtic

11-04-06, 04:59 PM

The microwave system is an MRC Twinstream with a fairly short 7 Gig hop from North Raleigh. Both analog and digital streams ride on the same microwave, along with a T1 LAN and bidirectional serial data lines. The problems were actually a SMPTE 310 distribution amp at the transmitter end, and a data modem at the station. Strangely unrelated, yet interconnected, and unpredictable.

Saw a similar problem at KCBS getting the signal up to Mt. Wilson earlier this year - same deal - Feb sweeps - and Thursday night - Survivor and CSI - though not total failure.

Could see the hits with a tektronix mtm400 transport stream monitor.

Switched exciters and recievers and it did not solve the problem.

All the sub carriers going to mt wilson including the telephone circuits were getting hit when the breakup happened as well.

Switched to a the backup Twinstream and the problem went away, though we took an analog and digital hit when we switched to the other mrc twinstream.

Then looked at the rf spectrum of the subcarriers related to the digits. The sub carriers were very hot causing interference in the digital portion of the spectrum.

GonzoF1

11-05-06, 05:58 PM

NBC17ENG

11-06-06, 07:44 AM

Okay y'all... So I backed up a few pages to see if I could make heads or tails out of what NBC17ENG was saying... well I couldn't totally. So I'll ask anyway.

I am not getting ANY signal from my off-air antenna for NBC17. I'm also getting numerous audio and sometimes video dropouts from DirecTV 82. Any ideas why? Tech support at DirecTV says they are "aware" of the problem and have forwarded the problem to higher-ups, but has something changes locally? Was there an antenna change from NBC17 that I am now not pointed towards?

Sorry if this has been covered already. I had hoped it would have cleared up by now so I figured this was the best place to find an answer.

Thanks.
Sorry, no changes on my end. What is DirecTV 82? SD or HD? I haven't heard anything from them, or viewers, and I haven't fired up my HD box for them to monitor it yet. I know their SD looks like crap with color bleeding especially in the reds, but no dropouts or audio problems on my SD system.
I can say trees are the biggest UHF enemy this time of year, and go back a year in the posts and see the "fun" we had with DXing. (Distant signals bouncing off the troposphere) Falling leaves usually help OTA reception, but Pine trees are soaking up moisture for the Winter, which absorbs UHF signals. Remember, the full wavelength of ch. 17 analog is around 12", and for ch. 55 it's a lot shorter, so even a small tree or 2X4 in the attic will cause problems.

DonB2

11-06-06, 09:46 AM

GonzoF1,

Just a guess but maybe you need to do a channel rescan. Possibly you have lost the remap for OTA HD 17.

DonB2

NBC17ENG

11-06-06, 12:18 PM

Thanks DonB2, I forgot to mention that, coffee hadn't kicked in yet. The issues Thursday night could easily have wiped us from his box's memory.

DonB2

11-06-06, 04:36 PM

"The DTB-H260F is going to retail for a low, low price of $179"

Has anyone here in Raleigh purchased one of these new Samsung units? And if so where?

It sure appears from reading posts on the other AVS forum that the DTB-H260F goes along ways towards solving the multipath ghosts issues that several people including myself have commented about on this forum.

-DonB2

Daryl L

11-06-06, 05:20 PM

New VOD channels (3 I think) have been added to TWC.

schottjy

11-06-06, 08:21 PM

Any one know if/when TWC-Raleigh is going to roll out Multiroom-DVR? I see that it's rolled out in at least one TWC locale...

GonzoF1

11-06-06, 10:10 PM

GonzoF1,

Just a guess but maybe you need to do a channel rescan. Possibly you have lost the remap for OTA HD 17.

DonB2

Maybe I should have just walked outside with half a brain... looked up at my antenna mast... and seen that the fixture was nearly 90 degrees out of focus!!!!

Sorry to waste your time y'all. I'll be smarter next time before I post again.

VisionOn

11-06-06, 11:46 PM

Any one know if/when TWC-Raleigh is going to roll out Multiroom-DVR? I see that it's rolled out in at least one TWC locale...

don't get your hopes up. You would be better forgetting you ever saw it, that way you won't be sat around waiting with the rest of us for all the features that other test states have had for a long time.

Fmstrat

11-07-06, 09:51 AM

don't get your hopes up. You would be better forgetting you ever saw it, that way you won't be sat around waiting with the rest of us for all the features that other test states have had for a long time.

Ahh, the glories of distributed Television via MythTV. I agree with this. It's unlikely we'll ever see it, though if it was offered, I would probably ditch the MythTV setup.

posg

11-07-06, 10:29 AM

New VOD channels (3 I think) have been added to TWC.

Yawn.

Daryl L

11-07-06, 11:53 AM

Yawn.
HeHeHe, they were of no interest to me either (except maybe the TCM movies in the FreeMoviesOnDemand section). Was just commenting. :)

VisionOn

11-07-06, 12:32 PM

HeHeHe, they were of no interest to me either (except maybe the TCM movies in the FreeMoviesOnDemand section). Was just commenting. :)

you've been missing out, the free movies thing is just a spin-off from the full movies on demand channel. They had a free movies section on there for a while with TCM films.

Daryl L

11-07-06, 01:17 PM

you've been missing out, the free movies thing is just a spin-off from the full movies on demand channel. They had a free movies section on there for a while with TCM films.
Ahhhhh, I knew of the free movies section in the full movies on demand channel but last I looked (had been awhile) there were no TCM movies listed that I noticed.

VisionOn

11-07-06, 01:40 PM

Ahhhhh, I knew of the free movies section in the full movies on demand channel but last I looked (had been awhile) there were no TCM movies listed that I noticed.

they never had many. I only checked occasionally as well so it might have been a recent addition.

posg

11-07-06, 02:09 PM

they never had many. I only checked occasionally as well so it might have been a recent addition.

Remember that these On Demand channels are not really channels at all.

VisionOn

11-07-06, 02:39 PM

Remember that these On Demand channels are not really channels at all.

how is that relevant? We are talking about new channels in the IPG lineup. Not the technical implementation.

posg

11-07-06, 03:06 PM

how is that relevant? We are talking about new channels in the IPG lineup. Not the technical implementation.

Just because some readers may think that valuable bandwidth is being wasted on something frivolous, when it's not. Just a clarification. Didn't mean to tweak anybody out. :mad:

VisionOn

11-07-06, 03:33 PM

Just because some readers may think that valuable bandwidth is being wasted on something frivolous, when it's not. Just a clarification. Didn't mean to tweak anybody out. :mad:

well I think we all know that 80% of the VOD stuff is frivolous anyway just by looking at it! Splitting off the new VOD channels is just bumping up the channel count.

I'm still waiting for a Widescreen movies on demand channel. That would actually be useful so therefore it's not available. Even if it's just a dedicated section of the MOD channel. It's particularly annoying when the new releases section only list movies as fullscreen when a widescreen version is buried in the A-Z list.

and TWC said HD MOD would be eventually be available to everyone upon it's launch. That hasn't happened. I find it particularly stupid that in order to pay to watch an HD movie you have to pay extra to get that channel in the first place.

IamtheWolf

11-07-06, 05:17 PM

I just want something for free, and its Sports so that always has value.

Anyway, looks like for the first time since 1992 Notre Dame football game will not be shown on a major network. Now I don't care about ND, but hope there are other games available, too.

pepco

11-07-06, 07:01 PM

Hi all,
I have a 61FN97 which I really like so far.
I have it hooked up to a SA 8300 DVR STB via HDMI cable and a coax cable to the reciever for Dolby Digital sound. When I first got the set I was able to get Dolby Digital sound from my reciever by going into the STB menu and changing audio from HDMI to DD and I would get DD sound fine. I now cant get DD sound at all, I only get stereo sound from the reciever. Does HDMI block the DD from getting to the reciever????

Blue 911

11-07-06, 11:58 PM

I just found this great local thread. Here's my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8843390&&#post8843390) regarding recent info that TW now does support external hard drives on the SA83000.

Dish_H8r

11-08-06, 07:14 PM

All,

I just wanted to post a couple of lines to express my gratitude to all the posters on this forum. I am a Newbie to OTA. I got tired of waiting for my Dish provider to give me my local channels in HD. I never thought I would buy a $2500 HD panny and then have to shop around for 'rabbit ears!'

Reading through this forum was a great education and saved me tons of frustration. Thanks to all those who have contributed and continue to contirbute.

On a side note: This is not a solicitation, but I am starting a Film Club in Rocky Mount. Membership is 20 bucks (this will go towards MPAA licences) and it is going to be free to attend screenings (even for non-members). If anyone wants more info, please send me an email.

stungeon

11-08-06, 10:35 PM

VisionOn

11-09-06, 12:33 AM

I just tried to watch my DVR recording from Monday night. It skips and freezes and is unwatchable. Did anybody else have problems with it? I had a similar problem with Earl and The Office last Thursday.

I watched my recording of 60 last night and while I remember a couple of quick glitches it was a pretty solid broadcast.

Earl from last week was horrendous and I had to watch it with the subtitles on just to get through the scenes I couldn't see or hear.

DonB2

11-09-06, 12:30 PM

These LG STB recorders look pretty interesting:

They are found just below the LG plasma info at this URL that I got from another AVS Forum post.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/LGline2007.html

DonB2

zim2dive

11-09-06, 01:02 PM

I just tried to watch my DVR recording from Monday night. It skips and freezes and is unwatchable. Did anybody else have problems with it?

I had some stutters but nothing catastrophic.

Mike

stungeon

11-09-06, 10:00 PM

I had some stutters but nothing catastrophic.

Mike

Thanks for the feedback. I tried to play Studio 60 again tonight and it played fine. I guess there was something funny going on with my DVR last night.

Tim Terrific

11-12-06, 11:34 PM

Fmstrat

11-13-06, 10:24 AM

Hey everyone. I've got a question about acceptable signal strength. My meter shows that I'm pulling upper 80's for NBC, and mid 90's for ABC (and all other channels). Most of the time, things run great. However about once an hour, I get a glitch where the sound goes out for about 3-5 seconds and there is garble on screen.

It doesn't seem to happen on all channels, just on ABC and NBC, and I seem to notice it during Lost and Heros more than anything else, but that could be coincidence. I have two ATSC tuners on the antenna, and notice that if I'm recording on say, NBC and FOX, the glich will only happen during that time on NBC. For that matter, I've also never noticed an issue with FOX.

Any ideas?

DonB2

11-13-06, 11:27 AM

Fmstrat ,

It sounds like the frustrating Multipath ghosting issues.

Supposedly the latest generation Tuners are suppose to help with this.

I do not own one yet so not sure.

-DonB2

DonB2

11-13-06, 11:29 AM

PBS out of Chapel Hill

Has anyone had trouble receiving PBS OTA ATSC? I was not able to get a watchable signal all weekend. I am almost thinking my amp in the Square Shooter went bad.

Well it was working again Monday night with signal strength back up to my just on the fringe of 72 percent. Over the weekend it was mid 60's for signal strength.

I unplugged the amp power on the SS and signal strength dropped to the 40's so it must still be working.

-DonB2

bigcementpond

11-13-06, 03:45 PM

I was wondering if anyone else is having trouble with the audio on nbc17. This is on the regular ch7 broadcast on TWC in Cary, set to DD2.0 on the SA8300 (no HD). It seems that there is little difference between the right and center channels and almost nothing in the left. I first noticed this on Friday night's Tonight Show from the DVR, though it could have been going on longer (and still is). All other channels seem fine including the SD broadcast on ch218. Thanks!

HDTVFanAtic

11-14-06, 12:49 AM

2.0 doesn't have a center channel.....which is why it's 2.0.

bigcementpond

11-14-06, 02:24 AM

2.0 doesn't have a center channel.....which is why it's 2.0.
While this is true, my surround receiver does DD PL-IIx from a 2.0 source. The 8300 sends all audio as 2.0 unless it's actually in 5.1.

DonB2

11-14-06, 09:45 AM

ABC GMA - OTA ATSC,

Did anyone else notice the scrolling text along the bottom of the screen this morning on GMA. It was very herky jerky.

The scrolling was back to normal this morning. 11-19

-DonB2

drill

11-14-06, 02:23 PM

NBC17ENG

11-14-06, 05:30 PM

I have a question for NBC17ENG:

Why is the sound level so low on NASCAR broadcasts that I have to crank up the receiver to 50 while Sunday Night Football can be comfortably audible at my more typical 35 setting? :confused:
The reply from NY was "no, (intentional difference) other than different audio mixers who may use more or less compression to suit their preferences?" NASCAR is loud in person, so I guess they over compensated.

Glitches?
An 80 or above signal strength is generally ideal, but as stated, multipath is high right now with Fall leaves, trees, and winds. Don't forget dirty connections.

Stereo plus and minus?
17 analog is standard 2.0 stereo, no center channel. 17-1 is 5.1 if available, and 3.0 if not during HD programming. Up-converted shows are 2.0 stereo, no center channel. DD receivers have so many settings and simulations, it can be hard to determine where audio is coming from.

bigcementpond

11-14-06, 08:06 PM

NBC17ENG

11-14-06, 10:57 PM

I'll check it in the morning. They get the same feed on the fiber I send to the transmitter and DirecTV, but they may be on a different distribution amp. I'll look at it leaving my plant and let them know if their end needs a tweak. Thanks for the clarification.

wmcneil

11-15-06, 12:58 PM

NBC17ENG

11-15-06, 03:55 PM

We found the right channel DA was hotter leaving my racks. Both channels should be equal now.

bigcementpond

11-15-06, 04:33 PM

Thanks! That's seems to have it fixed now. Sorry if my original question was misleading or vague.

Fmstrat

11-15-06, 06:50 PM

what tuners are you using?

I'm using two pcHDTV HD5500's with MythTV.

level7

11-16-06, 08:17 PM

scsiraid

11-16-06, 08:43 PM

Hey Everyone,

First post in the Raleigh thread. Had a quick timewarner cable question:

1) What *frequencies* does TWC broadcast in? I bought one of the new samsung 260f receivers that supposedly receives QAM, but when I scan for channels it doesn't find any. My fusionHDTV receiver picks them up just fine.

My issue is I live in a townhome (about 9 miles from the towers, apparently) - but I can't see a way to realistically get an antenna cable from my attic down to my TV (which is in a room with a huge open vaulted ceiling). I was thinking QAM over cable, as much as I detest paying for stuff that is essentially free.

Can you get a digital box from TWC without having digital cable? I'm assuming that would allow me to view unencrypted QAM channels....

--7

If you are that close... have you tried an indoor antenna such as the Silver Sensor? You can get them at Circuit City.

Oldemanphil

11-17-06, 10:30 PM

Hey Everyone,

First post in the Raleigh thread. Had a quick timewarner cable question:

1) What *frequencies* does TWC broadcast in? I bought one of the new samsung 260f receivers that supposedly receives QAM, but when I scan for channels it doesn't find any. My fusionHDTV receiver picks them up just fine.

My issue is I live in a townhome (about 9 miles from the towers, apparently) - but I can't see a way to realistically get an antenna cable from my attic down to my TV (which is in a room with a huge open vaulted ceiling). I was thinking QAM over cable, as much as I detest paying for stuff that is essentially free.

Can you get a digital box from TWC without having digital cable? I'm assuming that would allow me to view unencrypted QAM channels....

--7

You should not need a digital box or any STB to get QAM from Raleigh TWC cable. I have had at least 3 Vizio TVs with onboard QAM tuners and they all have received the QAM channels from just plugging them into the cable outlet. You do have to scan for the channels however. If you have basic TWC cable, you should get the local networks offerings via QAM. NBC, CBS, ABC and WUNC (PBS).
Don't know about the frequencies. I guess something under 900MHz.

DonB2

11-18-06, 10:49 AM

"
Originally Posted by gpankaj
Hi ,

I recently bought Samsung T-451 tuner which comes with QAM.
I am able to receive most all over-air channels thru Antenna.

I tried to tune the tuner using Cable since I have a basic cable.
The tuner has 3 cable tuning modes . STD/HRC/IRC.

The tune will lockinto many channels in STD and IRC tuning modes,
but will only show only few of them . I am able to see only TNT
and Discovery on IRC tuning . On STD tuning it will show couple
of Spanish channels . It will lock into many channels but going
up and down on channel list , it will say "No Signal" even though
on Signal Strength it shows many bars.

Anybody has any ideas on how can I get NBC/CBS/ABC/FOX using
QAM on T-451 , please post.

I had the T-451 last fall. It was my 3rd HD STB after a toshiba and a LG. I liked the Sammy best. You want it set on STD. Try the below list. These are what I got when I had the Sammy. Some may have changed.

84.1 TNT (without the audio problem my LG 3510A had)
84.2 Dischd

85.1 CBSHD
85.2 CBSWX
85.3 CBSSD

90.1 PBS TV
90.2 PBSHD
90.3 PBS KIDS
90.4 PBS
90.5 PBS

105.13 CSTV (COLLEGE SPORTS TV)
105.11 TWC NEWS CHANNEL

111.1 NBCHD
111.2 NBCSD
111.3 NBCWX

113-1 ABCHD
113.5 ABCWX
113.6 ABCSD

113-2 FOXHD
113.3 FOXSD
113.4 FOXWX WRAL

117.9 PAX (PAX62 OF FAYETTEVILLE)
117.12 TELEMUNDO

118.2 (sOME LOCAL SALES CHANNEL OF RALEIGH)(CH.60 ON TWC OF RALEIGH/DURHAM/FAYETTEVILLE)
118.9 NBCSD ((WNCN 17 OF RALEIGH)
118.10 NBCSD (WECT 6 OF WILIMINGTON)
118.11 TWC NEWS CHANNEL

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02-28-06, 11:03 AM
"

Daryl L or whoever can answer these questions:

Question 1:
I don't see The Tube in the above TWC QAM list, does TWC offer The Tube which I think is 28.2 in OTA ATSC over TWC cable QAM?

Question 2:
Does a Samsung SIR T 451 do QAM?
From this post I copied it appears that it does but if you read the owners manual that comes with the SIT T 451 it says page 9:

4. Can I connect my DTV set-top receiver to my cable TV service?

Cable TV systems use a different method for transmitting digital TV programs that is currently incompatible with broadcast DTV set-top receivers. So you will still need to use an outdoor or indoor antenna to receive OTA broadcast DTV programs.

On page 12 in the Rear Panel Jacks section:

1. Ant/Cable In Connect the air or CATV antenna here. Connect cable in the even that a local cable provider is passing through 8vsb on their system.

There is some additonal 8vsb verbage on page 13.

At any rate I believe that TWC uses QAM which is not the same as 8VSB which leads me to believe that the SIR T 451 would not work with digital basic Cable

Is this text in the manual misleading?

-Don B2

Erik Garci

11-18-06, 03:26 PM

1) What *frequencies* does TWC broadcast in? I bought one of the new samsung 260f receivers that supposedly receives QAM, but when I scan for channels it doesn't find any. My fusionHDTV receiver picks them up just fine.
Unencrypted Digital TV Channels in Durham, NC (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/channels.htm)

beanpod

11-20-06, 11:02 PM

Stereo plus and minus?
17 analog is standard 2.0 stereo, no center channel. 17-1 is 5.1 if available, and 3.0 if not during HD programming. Up-converted shows are 2.0 stereo, no center channel. DD receivers have so many settings and simulations, it can be hard to determine where audio is coming from.

Hi NBC17ENG,

Got an issue with NBC17's in-house commercials (the ones for NBC17 itself).

First off, I watch OTA NBC HD sports events on WNCN 17.1 instead of WITN 7.1 because NBC17 transmits 5.1 and as you know WITN 7.1 can't.

Here's the issue...with regard to audio signal transsition from sports event to commercials, both SD and HD, all goes well except for NBC17 in-house commercials. The signal shifts to 2.0, gets louder than typical for commercials, make my AVR do the signal switch dance and causes a audible snap in transsition. All's good again after the NBC17 commercials finished and back to regular programming.

The video quality of NBC17 commercials (although not HD) suggest they are somewhat recently made. I don't know what can be done about it or if I'm an isolated case. Is it possible the audio can be converted from 2.0 to 3.0 or audio feed simular with other national commercials (they seem to not cause an issue)?

NBC17ENG

11-21-06, 08:29 AM

A bit late now since that was the last race NBC will carry for a long time. As we noticed last week, the people running audio for the NASCAR races seem to over compress the audio and over compensate for the volume; in essence, they run it too low. When I go to races I like to sit within the first 8 rows so I can feel the wind and the swoop, swoop as they pass. TV can't send the smell of burning rubber and spent Sonoco fuel though! When TNT said "crank it up", I did.

When the dynamic range is so compressed on the 5.1 show, and you switch to 2.0 commercials, the effect is the same as the "good ole' days" when commercials were in mono, and the ears always perceived the spots to be louder, even when they were not. Only in this case, there is a difference since the program is lower, but the effect for me had me punching the mute button during breaks, and I don't blame anyone else doing the same.

Now you got me wondering what a simulated 3.0 or 5.1 mode from a 2.0 source would sound like. Anybody here want to experiment after ratings during the day to see, er hear, what faux 5.1 sounds like at home?

beanpod

11-21-06, 11:51 AM

HD broadcast make televised NASCAR home viewing more pleasurable, but there's nothing like the ambiance of being there.

But the point I was making, it was only during the NBC17 station commercials that made my AVR do the signal switch hop and it would flash 2.0 before reverting back to Logic7. All other commercials didn't cause an audio signal switch, or at least the AVR panel didn't indicate such. I'll have to take notice on some other NBC17 HD sporting event and see if it was occurs. Thanks for the reply though.

DonB2

11-24-06, 09:23 AM

"the effect is the same as the "good ole' days" when commercials were in mono, and the ears always perceived the spots to be louder, even when they were not. "

I remember reading a post by someone in TV Guide complaining about this issue years ago. As I recall tv guide contacted a tv station about it and was told that the volume was never increased on commercials. Instead it was something to do with the envelope of sound or something like that.

All I know is back than my volume control "potentiometer" did a good job of quieting the commercials. So maybe the broadcast studios didn't mess with the volume level but the "volume control" on my tv did a good job of leveling the volume.

-DonB2

halljb

11-24-06, 07:20 PM

Is anyone else having trouble pulling in WRAZ 50 OTA? I had no problems before the storm. I was out of town and came home during all of the wind. After the storm I was having trouble with WRAL and WRAZ, but I re-aimed the antenna in case it had been moved by the wind and I can't get WRAZ whatever I do now.

I can get every single other channel in the area (most with full signal bars), but no WRAZ. I could get it to display a frame every once in awhile, but I did a re-scan on the set and it didn't even find 50, so I can't make it tune anymore. I've done many re-scans since and 50 is never found.

I'm trying to figure out if this is just something on my end or did the WRAZ tower have trouble with the wind or something?

Thanks,
Brian

scsiraid

11-24-06, 07:30 PM

toadfannc

11-26-06, 07:57 AM

zim2dive

11-27-06, 09:27 AM

Does either satellite provider have HD locals for Raleigh? Obviously, I'm ready to dump TWC. This weekend I visited homes that had Cox and Comcast service. Not only is TWC programming line-up very inferior (while paying higher monthly rates), but the PQ and services (guide, etc.) are much worse than Cox or Comcast. Don't believe all the crap you read on these forums about TWC's technical quality. That's just a poor excuse to divert attention away from their woeful record on responding to customer demand for more and better programming.

Satellite is definitely not convenient for where I live, but I'm ready to give it a try.

As far as I can tell, HD locals has been "any day now" since the summer on Dish. We are one of the next 3 locales to be turned on, but so far we are not (I don't understand all the details, but we are "uplinked", just not on). Dish has lost 4+ months of my business while I've been waiting.

This is the only thing I am waiting for an I will make the switch. I check the Dish forum at

http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?f=10

every 2-3 weeks to look for updates.

Mike

Raleigh HD

11-27-06, 10:16 AM

Does either satellite provider have HD locals for Raleigh? Obviously, I'm ready to dump TWC. This weekend I visited homes that had Cox and Comcast service. Not only is TWC programming line-up very inferior (while paying higher monthly rates), but the PQ and services (guide, etc.) are much worse than Cox or Comcast. Don't believe all the crap you read on these forums about TWC's technical quality. That's just a poor excuse to divert attention away from their woeful record on responding to customer demand for more and better programming.

Satellite is definitely not convenient for where I live, but I'm ready to give it a try.

DirecTV offers channels 11, 17 and 22 locally for HD. Channels 5 and 50 are not yet offered due to contractual problems. I found that with the H20 receiver I can get both 5HD and 50HD with a small indoor antenna and this integrates with the program guide without a problem. There is no additional charge for HD locals if you have the analog locals. There are additional charges if you want the national HD channels such as ESPN, ESPN 2, etc.

VisionOn

11-28-06, 12:02 AM

Has anyone else noticed the inconsistent location of the NBC bug on some HD shows? Sometimes the bug is well within the boundary of the image in a location similar to other networks, and on other occasions (such as Heroes and Studio 60 tonight) it's sitting slightly larger, on the very edge of my screen as if the image has been zoomed somewhere during transmission.

Right now on Leno, it's back in it's "normal" position, about three inches away from the edge of my screen.

Is this a local, national or TWC thing? Someone is taking three inches from my HD viewing of Heroes and I want it back! :)

NBC17ENG

11-28-06, 08:07 AM

I am not a fan of bugs, and having wasted countless hours aligning our color bugs with network crystal bugs to find news bugs in a totally different place than programming bugs, makes me dislike them more. I suspect the bug location depends on where the show is coming from. Burbank seems to be consistent since they have done it longer. New York is just ramping up their delivery system and seem to be sloppy with where it goes.

Bugs were invented in the eighties when Nielson households filled in paper diaries of what was watched to help ensure the proper station was credited. That system is still in use in most smaller markets.

Ever notice we do not have the clock on our 11PM News? It reminds the viewer it's late so they shut off the TV to sleep instead of watching through Leno.

Regardless of issues like burn-in, or the availability of this information in the PSIP by pressing the info button on the remote, bugs are here to stay.

I do not like them on the left,
I do not like them on the right,
I do not like them animated,
I do not like them rated,
I'm smart enough to know what I'm watching,
Sam I am!

jspENC

11-28-06, 08:56 AM

NBC17eng that is hillarious! WTVD has to be the worst for bugs to me. That 11 bug is way too
big. WECT, WWAY and WSFX use bugs all the time, but they are not huge-and I have learned to live with it. None of the Greenville/New Bern channels use bugs for some odd reason.

I have noticed on NBC-HD shows however that the bug is on the left now, and is just too big.
Like we don't know we have on NBC and we can't tell that it is HD for pete's sake!

DonB2

11-28-06, 11:20 AM

NBC17ENG,

Ho ho I like your humor and your history lessons!

I remember getting sent the ratings to fill out back in the '60s , I figured it was worth filling out if for no other reason than to push the shows I liked.

Well I guess I didn't fill it out the way Nielson wanted the ratings to go, as I never got a second form to fill out.

-DonB2

drewwho

11-28-06, 11:31 AM

I am not a fan of bugs

On the upside, bugs do help automated commercial flagging software, since they are rarely found on commercials.

Drew

DonB2

11-28-06, 02:16 PM

drewwho,

I purchased and inexpensive Zenith DVD Player/VCR recorder for my Mom. I saw it had a commercial skip feature and could not wait to try it.

I found all it does is skip the VCR tape ahead by 30 seconds. :mad:

Oh well.

-DonB2

DonB2

11-28-06, 03:54 PM

I was receiving a viewable ATSC PAX picture last night in Holly Springs and the signal strength was down around 30. I have never ever received a picture at below about 50 percent on any channel.

On the other hand I could not receive CW 22.1 at all it had just about zero strength.

-DonB2

drewwho

11-29-06, 06:44 AM

I found all it does is skip the VCR tape ahead by 30 seconds. :mad:

All commercial skipping is not equal. Try MythTV sometime.. If you really trust it, you can have it skip commercials automagically. If you don't (like me), you hit a button on your remote to skip to the end of the flagged commercial. The reason I don't trust it is that occasionally it will flag part of the show as a commercial. Eg, the commercial should have been 3:35 long, but it thought it was 9:20 long, and wanted to skip a segment of the show. I need to upgrade and see if it has gotten better.. For some reason, I find the commercial flagging seems to be most accurate on WTVD. Maybe it is their bugs :)

Drew

Fmstrat

11-29-06, 10:42 AM

Blank frames is by and far the most common way to detect, and WTVD uses them all the time at the end of commercials. I'm running Myth .20, and there's no real changes since .19 in skipping. My biggest issue with skipping is in Football games. They tend to do quick 30 second commercials after an extra point, then do the kickoff, then a full commercial, all run together. So I regularly miss kickoffs. Other than that, works great, especially on OTA HD channels.

drewwho

11-29-06, 11:25 AM

I'm running Myth .20, and there's no real changes since .19 in skipping.

I'm running an 18 month old svn build somewhere between .18 and .19 on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" plan. I was planning to use some of my use-it-or-loose it end of year time to upgrade my box to the latest version because I'd like to use my Intel iMac as a remote front end and I need the database versions to be the same. Hopefully there are lots of improvements in waiting for me in .20...

Drew

NBC17ENG

11-30-06, 08:26 AM

drewwho

11-30-06, 09:14 AM

Oh, and skipping commercials? Is that common? They are the most entertaining part of the shows, and pay my salary! No wonder I live in the poor house. :o

Between the 30 second skip (or whatever it is) on DVRs and DonB2's VCR, and real commercial skipping like MythTV and ReplayTV, I think it is pretty common. But of course you knew that...

Some ads really are entertaining. I especially like that more ads are in HD. If I see an ad in HD, I'll watch it once rather than channel surfing away or skipping the entire block of commercials. To get more eyeballs, you should start having local advertisers produce HD ads. Is it even possible for you to run local HD ads during, say, the local news? The problem I have with commercials is that while many of them are actually entertaining the *first* time you see them, the charm starts to wear off after the 10th or 100th time. I also don't like having the show interrupted every 10 minutes for the ads. Don't even get me started on the obnoxious ads for the local car dealerships (although I'd have to give Crossroads Ford a "most improved" award since they stopped yelling and switched to the mild mannered businesswomen for a spokesperson).

It would be interesting if some commercial stations moved to the PBS model where they show the ads at the start of the show, with only one airing of each ad per show, and they do not interrupt the show with ads. (Don't tell me they aren't ads on PBS, if it walks like an ad, talks like an ad, and smells like an ad, it is an ad). Heck, I might even send you a donation like I send to WUNCTV!. Just don't move your transmitter 180 degrees away from everybody else like WUNC :)

Drew

Scooper

11-30-06, 11:36 AM

It depends on the kind of viewing I'm doing. Usually, I just leave it alone if I'm watching in real-time (yes - I do that often, even with a PVR). If I'm in a hurry watching a pre-recorded show - I'll 30 sec skip my way past ads.

Bugs - HATE THEM - period ! I KNOW what channel I'm watching ! That being said - the less they intrude on the program being shown - the better. WLFL does a really bad thing on Smallville about advertising for upcoming shows - which I'm not really interested in. OTOH - a well done, entertaining ad will often get watched, even if I'm not exactly looking for that particular item.

Daryl L

11-30-06, 11:53 AM

Take the bug, make it tiny, transparent to almost invisible with no colors, rotate them from corner to corner every five minutes or so (just like cbs rotates their nfl score box). Then they will not be distracting and with them rotating (non static) they can not cause burn-in (uneven phosphorous wear).

My .02 pennies. :D

Scooper

11-30-06, 12:00 PM

And yes I know ads pay for the stations - but come on !- I can edit out an easy 18 minutes out of almost every show on commercial TV - broadcast or cable channel ! I'll admit the PBS model holds some appeal -but I don't know if it would work for every show either.

VisionOn

11-30-06, 12:50 PM

Without the " I don't watch it" comments, and since all the TV stations read these posts, what's your take on the brightness levels on all the local station bugs. You know they won't go away, but if you had a say, and you do, what would make them better for you and your displays?

The opacity of most HD channel bugs is okay. FOX50 is the worst network HD offender. Being that their bug is bright white with a red stripe.

If it was up to me they would all remove the HD part from the bug. It's a bit obvious that you're watching the HD feed and it just makes it more obnoxious, it only needs the channel logo.

Having them all in the same place would be nice as well. ;)

DonB2

11-30-06, 02:31 PM

So is there a minumum length of say 30 secondsfor a commercial sot? Or can a commercial be any amount of time with the preference being on zero seconds :)

I can't tell you how much I miss commercials on PBS when I want to get up to get another cup of coffee or whatever.

But there are a lot of commercials I enjoy watching or even learning about a new product through. I agree with other posts thought that they do get repetitive.

I guess one thing that has amazed me is the slowness of ads to be filmed in HD 16:9. Are 16:9 cameras that expensive these days???

I don't know if they are bugs or not but I really find the pop up crawlies to be very distracting. And they are not timed or related to the show you are watching. You could be deep in some sad part of some movie and this obnoxious moving pop up appears on the screen advertising some upcoming comedy show. I hate the things.

The scrolling text that all the news networks have gone to is distracting also.

-DonB2

VisionOn

11-30-06, 02:44 PM

I don't know if they are bugs or not but I really find the pop up crawlies to be very distracting. And they are not timed or related to the show you are watching. You could be deep in some sad part of some movie and this obnoxious moving pop up appears on the screen advertising some upcoming comedy show. I hate the things.

this is probably a discussion for another thread but I hate those things with passion as well. Especially on SD channels when the ad crawl takes up almost half the screen and has sound effects. Sound effects over the actual show dialog! Insane.

Showtime is currently ruining Dexter with their inappropriate crawls for Sleeper Cell in the middle of tense and dramatic scenes.

DonB2

11-30-06, 03:18 PM

VisionOn,

I agree with both your comments:
1. This probably being off thread
2. Sound as well as movement in the pop ups

So to get back to subject "Is anyone else experiencing issues with receiving 22.1?"

-DonB2

OrangeCo

12-01-06, 10:41 AM

I've had my digital tv for just under a year (Panasonic). Within the last few weeks all the UNC TV digital channels and 11.1/11.2 are not working. I'm showing strong signal strength - but a blank screen. Both stations had been working great for months.

All other digital stations are working fine.

Anybody else noticing this too?

pyedog

12-01-06, 11:02 AM

Within the last few weeks all the UNC TV digital channels and 11.1/11.2 are not working. I'm showing strong signal strength - but a blank screen. Both stations had been working great for months.

A rescan may help fix some of the problems.

I have a Sony HD DVR and the UNC channels never show up when I do a rescan (I assume there is some issue with the PSIP data), but they work if I manually tune into them. Several weeks ago I started having problems with 11.1 - I'd always get 11.3 (weather) instead (although it would claim to be on 11.1).

Once I did a rescan everything started working properly.

Hope that helps.

BlueCamel

12-02-06, 03:56 PM

Oh, and skipping commercials? Is that common? They are the most entertaining part of the shows, and pay my salary! No wonder I live in the poor house. :o

Sorry to hear that NBC17ENG. In this house we couldn't live without commercial skipping. Downstairs we use a DirecTivo to fast-forward through commercials. Upstairs in the home-theater is a MythTV box with ATSC recordings and we use commercial-skip for that. I would say that less than 5% of my TV viewing time involves watching a program were commercials are not skipped!

Eventually someone will figure out that they can charge a premium for the first and last 5 seconds during a commercial break. Think about it. The typical Tivo user will fast-forward and then, if they don't hit the mark just right, backup by about 5 seconds prior to the start of the show.

As for MythTV, it was so discerning seeing MythTV accurately to the second automatically skip the entire commercial break that I had to adjust it so MythTV would resume play back 5 seconds prior to the end commercial break. Simply amazing.

WRoss

12-03-06, 02:12 PM

I watch TV for the show content that interests me. I've got a 50" HD & surround sound and subscribe to most all the HD content available. Ideally the viewing experience would be as 'movie-like' as possible - therefore I find all the the distracting developments that are evolving into the TV world very unpleasant.

The 'bugs' were bad enough, then they began to grow larger. Oftentimes there will be multiple 'bugs' and now comes the moving promo ads like what is seen on Smallville (as mentioned in another post) and the stuff that TNT is doing to promote their own shows.

I also really dislike the scrolling crawls that now run across the bottom of most local news shows - I mean hey . . if I want to watch multiple content then please let me do my own 'picture-in-picture'.

As for the commercials . . let's be honest here . . who *really* likes to watch them?

The truth is that the media providers are in business to make $ and they'll push the commercial content right up to whatever the market will bear so long as it's profitable.

I forsee a time in the not too distant future in which the program content will be much more blended with 'product placement' in order to prevent the viewers from escaping the sales pitch (a la Tivo).

All of this is completely contrary to what I'm after - which is to just watch the program that I like with as little conflicting content (ie. - 'bugs', commercials, crawls, product placement, etc.) as possible.

Some will say, yes but what about the media providers *need* to make $ that support their program. Well, I'm now paying TWC $ 94 per/month for this content with all of the above listed commercial intrusions and from my perspective I say "enough already".

toadfannc

12-03-06, 07:34 PM

Sun 7pm ... no HD on NBC17. This happens way too much on this channel. Sure hope somebody wakes up in time for the game.

HotTubJohnny

12-03-06, 08:10 PM

Its getting real close to gametime. c'mon NBC17ENG, flip that HDTV switch.
I need to see my boy Cutler dominate in high def. :)

beanpod

12-03-06, 08:34 PM

Yep, tough choice here. NBC17 in SD with 5.1 audio or WITN ch7 in HD in 2.0 audio. Yep, having to watch the game in HD on WITN, ch 7 out of Greenville. Same thing yesterday with the Father/Son golf tourney. I'm sure NCB17ENG is on the case as we speak.

NBC17ENG

12-04-06, 08:37 AM

We switched off the Miami HUB last Wednesday morning. We're still working out triggers and sources as well as who puts them in. We'll get there eventually. ;)

Fmstrat

12-04-06, 11:38 AM

Before we leave the bug thread here, a viewer with a plasma tv wrote in complaining my news bugs were too bright causing burn-in yesterday. We purposely toned them down, and made them semi-transparent for that reason a long time ago. Without the " I don't watch it" comments, and since all the TV stations read these posts, what's your take on the brightness levels on all the local station bugs. You know they won't go away, but if you had a say, and you do, what would make them better for you and your displays?

Oh, and skipping commercials? Is that common? They are the most entertaining part of the shows, and pay my salary! No wonder I live in the poor house. :o

I agree with all previous comments. Yes, I know I'm watching your channel, I don't need a bug. If there must be a bug, make it mono, transparent, and rotate it at commercials. I hate the FOX bug, and I mean HATE. As for ABC advertising shows in the middle of other shows, I have not seen that on the shows I watch, and if I did, I would quit watching them. I can live with commercials, but distractions mid show are unacceptable.

As for comm skipping, if commercials were more interesting, I'd never skip. I normally continue to watch commercials until I see one I've seen a thousand times, and then skip. But then again, I'm in marketing.

Fmstrat

12-04-06, 11:39 AM

We switched off the Miami HUB last Wednesday morning. We're still working out triggers and sources as well as who puts them in. We'll get there eventually. ;)

Ahh, I've also noticed that Football Night in America has been SD the past two weeks as well.

drewwho

12-04-06, 12:18 PM

Ahh, I've also noticed that Football Night in America has been SD the past two weeks as well.

I watched a bit of the game last night (the last 2 minutes or so of the 1st half), and it seemed to be in HD then. Maybe it was switching in and out, and I just got lucky?

Speaking of HD football, did anybody notice that in the Giants/Cowboys game, they "forgot" to go to commercial? For a while there was a live shot of them lining up for the kickoff, and then what looked like fast forward/rewind of players on the sideline. I love it when stuff like that happens...

BTW, I wish all the networks would either stop greying out the bottom or top of the screen to the left and the right of the score, or make use of that real estate to provide additional information which is not available on SD...

Drew

DonB2

12-04-06, 04:21 PM

"BTW, I wish all the networks would either stop greying out the bottom or top of the screen to the left and the right of the score, or make use of that real estate to provide additional information which is not available on SD... "

Drew the Dreamer :)

-DonB2

pixelswim

12-04-06, 07:26 PM

Unencrypted Digital TV Channels in Durham, NC (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/channels.htm)

Erik and DonB2,
First I would like to thank Erik for taking the trouble to post this link. I had been searching for this type of info.

I'm new to this thread - sorry if my questions are repeats...

I have a new samsung LCD and am interested in understanding how it's QAM tuner relates to my TWC Chapel Hill service. I currently have very minimal (basic and standard) analog service from TWC. The channel search has found all the analog channels I'm used to and a very minimal number of digital stations, including unc-hd that is actually in HD and looks great. I want to understand this before I order the digital service, then I want to understand that before I order the cablecard, then I want to understand that before I dump it for the STB etc.

I printed out "Unencrypted Digital TV Channels in Durham, NC" and only some of it makes sense or seems to match what I get, hence my questions:

1) Is TWC Durham the same as Chapel Hill? (Seems like a lot of the web pages they direct me to say "Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville" but then have different pricing and features for different cities/markets.. but would this matter for unencrypted channel info?)

2) For the channel search process I assumed TWC is STD and not IRC (Incrementally Related Carriers) or HRC (Harmonically Related Carriers.) Is that true? (I think I understand the different systems, but what does TWC use?)

3) My STD channel search only found basically all the analogs and then just the 4.1 through 4.5 WUNC digital channels. Do others think that makes sense?

4) Anybody in Chapel Hill know how many OTA digitals come in well?

Thanks! --pixelswim (I know, I know, I'll be sorry I didn't ask one at a time...)

Erik Garci

12-05-06, 09:40 AM

1) Is TWC Durham the same as Chapel Hill? (Seems like a lot of the web pages they direct me to say "Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville" but then have different pricing and features for different cities/markets.. but would this matter for unencrypted channel info?)
I'm not sure. Anyway, if you happen to have a digital cable box from TWC, you can use it to find out the physical channel numbers. For example, to find out the physical channel number for channel 250 (WRAZ HD - FOX), tune to channel 250 on the box, then tune to channel 999 to see the Diagnostic screen (which works only if you already disabled Parental Control, which has a default password of 0000). Then scroll down to "Tuning", and it will show the frequency (in MHz) and the program number (aka the subchannel number).

To convert the frequency to a physical channel number, use either of these equations:
Channel = (Frequency - 81MHz) / 6MHz, if the frequency is between 219MHz and 645MHz.
Channel = (Frequency - 51MHz) / 6MHz, if the frequency is 651MHz or higher.

In this case, channel 250 has a frequency of 729 MHz in Durham, and the subchannel is 4, so the physical channel is 113.4, since (729 - 51) / 6 = 113.
2) For the channel search process I assumed TWC is STD and not IRC (Incrementally Related Carriers) or HRC (Harmonically Related Carriers.) Is that true? (I think I understand the different systems, but what does TWC use?)
I think it is Standard, but I'm not sure. I suppose you could try the other systems to see if it makes any difference.

DonB2

12-05-06, 10:17 AM

pixelswim,

Did you let your QAM built in tv tuner completely finish finding QAM channels via STD before you tried viewing them?

"My STD channel search only found basically all the analogs and then just the 4.1 through 4.5 WUNC digital channels"

You confuse me with your above statement. A STD channel search tells me you used your QAM tuner. It should have only found digital SD and digital HD channels not Analog channels. The only way it would have found digital and analog channels simultaneously would be if you have a QAM/Analog-NTSC combined tuner. Is this what you have?

Also I am surprised you did not get other QAM channels such as ABC,NBC, CBS, and FOX which are are free Over the air channels and in my opinion should be free over QAM cable as long as you have the basic cable package.

I guess there is always the possibility that these other free channels are found higher on the incoming cable line and that your line has a block on it so that you can not receive the higher numbered analog cable channels or the higher numberd QAM channels.

BUT---- there are certainly people on this forum with better knowledge than I since I do not subscribe to TWC.

-DonB2

DonB2

12-05-06, 10:20 AM

CW 22.1 - I found that I can receive OTA ATSC 22.1 cleanly now from below Raleigh. I am guessing that is was previously broadcasting on low power for a period of time while adjustments were made. I have not changed any of my settings or antenna position and it went from below 50 signal strength last week to over 90 as of last night.

-DonB2

Erik Garci

12-05-06, 11:57 AM

I guess there is always the possibility that these other free channels are found higher on the incoming cable line and that your line has a block on it so that you can not receive the higher numbered analog cable channels or the higher numberd QAM channels.
Something like that happened to me. When I subscribed to Basic service, TWC installed a trap in the junction box by the road. It filtered out the analog channels 25 through 77, since I did not subscribe to Standard service. As a side effect, it also weakened channel 78, which happens to carry digital SD subchannels for WRAL, WTVD, WLFL, and BET. It weakened it so much that I could not reliably receive those subchannels, not even on TWC's box. I was still able to reliably receive the unencrypted channels above 78. Anyway, I ended up getting the special upgrade (http://www.twcnc.com/upgrade/), so they removed the trap.

pixelswim

12-05-06, 12:25 PM

Erik,Don2B,
Many thanks for your replies, I am processing them but let me try to jot a quick reply before I have to get back to work..
Erik, no I don't have any box or even digital service from TWC.
Don2B, Yes, I let my channelsearch process (via STD, not IRC or HRC) completely finish (I drove across town and back!) Yes, this samsung tv has QAM, ATSC and NTSC tuners all three. My sentence that confused you (sorry) was just me trying to over-simplify. The channelsearch process found tons of stuff just like you described in your post a ways back. Most of them however don't result in anything - you go to them and, after a fairly long pause, a box shows up that says the channel is scrambled or signal too weak. On the other hand, if you look at Erik's Durham chart of where free digital channels "should" be and try to enter either the "mapped" numbers or the "physical" numbers as if they were channels, on most of them the samsung just ignores what you entered and stays on the channel you were on.

Of course, now that I think about it while writing this.., the unc-dt, unc-hd, unc-kids, unc-ed and unc-nc are reached on the samsung by entering "4-1","4-2" etc. and those are the numbers one sees under Erik's "Digital(8VSB) - Virtual" column under the "Over the Air" category. Gee, so I should have tried entering "5-1", "17-1" for CBD-hd or NBC-hd perhaps! I'll try that tonight. Note that I have no antenna hooked up. There are 2 coax input jacks but only TWC is hooked up.
Maybe we can figure it out even if none of the experts notices us here!

--pixelswim

pixelswim

12-05-06, 12:36 PM

OK Erik, that's interesting, I do in fact get Standard on top of Basic, always have had that coming in to my old CRT since ya gotta do it if you want carolina games. But I wonder if I still have a trap. I found one picture of the physical traps on Google images (like little one inch double ended coax plugs) and I looked up at my metal coax box on the phone pole -- one of the 2 connected coax wires has a little gray barrel like that and the other doesn't but I can't tell which is mine cause they then come down and go underground. But since I can see channels all the way out to 98 at least on my old analog crt, seems like I must not have a trap, maybe?

gotta go to meetings, see you guys later, --pixelswim

Erik Garci

12-05-06, 01:33 PM

But since I can see channels all the way out to 98 at least on my old analog crt, seems like I must not have a trap, maybe?
Channels 95 through 99 are located between channels 6 and 7, in terms of their frequencies. So a trap would not affect channel 98 anyway.

pixelswim

12-05-06, 10:19 PM

Well, no dice on entering "5-1" or "17-1", it's weird that the unc-tv ones map to the OTA channel numbers but none of the other local digital broadcast stations seem to show up anywhere. I can't figure out what TWC is doing.

I'm very new to this but on some of the other threads it sounds like customers think the cable companies have usually been directed in their service agreements with the cities they operate in to retransmit any of the local broadcast stations. But the companies sometimes do not do this and their is no one to go after them to do it. I guess my next step should be to call them up and press more specific questions.

pixelswim

12-06-06, 07:00 AM

Correction, "17-1" has suddenly decided to appear, and it has the NBC peacock and is in HD as would be expected from OTA 8VSB column. I was slowly clicking through the dozens of empty channels the channel search found (too bleary eyed to take notes) finding a few odd things, like one "music choice" playing soft rock (just that one and I know digital usually has dozens of those).. anyway I think I was somewhere up in the 108-x range when all of a sudden a station showed up, with 1080i in the info display and without me doing anything the channel display switched to "17-1" and from then on you could enter 17-1 and nbc-hd.

NBC17ENG

12-06-06, 07:54 AM

Ahh, I've also noticed that Football Night in America has been SD the past two weeks as well.
Only the first 10 minutes were in SD this past Sunday Night. We manually switched it, and it stayed on HD the rest of the evening, even through the local breaks since the switch triggers were missing. You can tell it didn't switch by the "animated peacock" in the center of the screen during the local breaks. If 17-1 is mapped as SD, try re-scanning the channels. Downeast is reporting moderate DX-ing which wrecks havoc on tuners locking into strange signals.

Speaking of strange signals and bounces, Samsung has the latest generation chipset STB on the market that promises to help in multipath areas. We have 3 of these boxes feeding MG, and Matt at WRAL has one with a 12" piece of wire as the antenna that has been giving amazing rock solid results. Hopefully these new tuners will solve a lot of reception issues!

drewwho

12-06-06, 09:33 AM

Samsung has the latest generation chipset STB on the market that promises to help in multipath areas

Do you know if that good chipset is also used in their newer model TVs with integrated ATSC tuners?

Drew

DonB2

12-06-06, 11:14 AM

NBC17eng,

That particular Samsung tuner DTB-H260F is being covered at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9084277#post9084277

If indeed that is the one you are talking about.

The only issue with it so far is that it does not appear to pick up signals at a long distance as well as some of the previous models.

I got one to test my multipath issues but unfortunately mutipath does not manifest it self as much after the leaves are off the trees, at least at my house.

By the way where did you get your Samsungs from? They appear to be unobtainium around Raleigh and Durham, at least before Thanksgiving they were.

BTW - Thanks for telling us about it since just because I knew about it does not mean everyone does :o

-DonB2

DurhamHusker

12-06-06, 11:21 AM

Do you know if that good chipset is also used in their newer model TVs with integrated ATSC tuners?DrewFrom what I've read, the newer "5th generation" chipsets are in most new TVs on the market. It seems that in the niche market of ATSC set top boxes, this is one of the first (if not THE first) box with this generation of 8VSB tuners on board.

NBC17ENG

12-06-06, 12:28 PM

That's the one we have, and we picked them up at Circuit City here in Raleigh.

DonB2

12-06-06, 12:42 PM

NBC17ENG,

Thanks ! Circuit City must be getting them in now. That is good news. Assuming they have any left for other folks of course.

-DonB2

DurhamHusker

12-06-06, 01:08 PM

Circuit City must be getting them in now. That is good news. Assuming they have any left for other folks of course.-DonB2BestBuy's web site shows them in stock at two triangle locations as well.

pixelswim

12-07-06, 08:02 AM

(...) If 17-1 is mapped as SD, try re-scanning the channels. Downeast is reporting moderate DX-ing which wrecks havoc on tuners locking into strange signals.

(...)!

Hi engineer, What does DX-ing mean?

By the way, "17-1" now seems to be my second HD channel on my (supposedly QAM) testing of my new samsung set. It has stayed consistently there since it popped up. Actually, now "4-2" and the other UNC ones have disappeared!

I guess I innocently thought these digital sub-carrier signals on TWC would always be rock-solid and any modern tuner circuit would just get them all the time. Now I'm wondering if this is the point of some of these thread discussions, that what TWC sends out goes on and off.

drewwho

12-07-06, 09:23 AM

..what TWC sends out goes on and off.

At least here in Cary, the TWC QAM channel assignments for the major network HD channels have remained constant for nearly 3 years. The tuner in my Zenith occasionally has some signal strength problems with NBC-17 and PBS, but my MythTV box's tuner (Dvico fusion, 5th gen LG based) has no problems. If I were you, I'd go out and get an external tuner like the Samsung DTB-H260F discussed above (after first making sure it gets QAM and is returnable). I'd then see if that tuner has the same problems your integrated tuner does. If so, take a good look at the cabling in your house, fix it, and return the tuner. If the external tuner has no problems, then there is something flaky about the integrated tuner in your set, and I'd keep the tuner..

Drew

NBC17ENG

12-07-06, 10:21 AM

Hi engineer, What does DX-ing mean?

By the way, "17-1" now seems to be my second HD channel on my (supposedly QAM) testing of my new samsung set. It has stayed consistently there since it popped up. Actually, now "4-2" and the other UNC ones have disappeared!

I guess I innocently thought these digital sub-carrier signals on TWC would always be rock-solid and any modern tuner circuit would just get them all the time. Now I'm wondering if this is the point of some of these thread discussions, that what TWC sends out goes on and off.
DX-ing is distant radio signals bouncing off the upper atmosphere, and is used mainly by HAM operators and also known as skip. The signals usually travel in a straight line from the tower to your antenna and beyond. At certain times of the day and year, they continue on and bounce back toward the earth over the horizon. Lower frequencies bend over the horizon easier than higher UHF frequencies, so VHF channels 2 & 3 are very commonly picked up from half way across the country. It can also be a pain to broadcasters and cable operators, if you go back a year in these posts to see what we and TWC went through last year. I don't have the site bookmarked anymore, but I think it is posted back there, that gives a map similar to a weather map of where atmospheric conditions are most favorable for skip.
Also note in past posts, that good connections are everything on the cable system. At DTV bitrates, the cable acts more like waveguide, and any bad crimp, dirty connection, bad splitters or non linear amps can cause issues on certain frequencies, and pass others fine. I am lucky, as it usually only affects my frequency on TWC. :o
Home builders are not always installing the highest quality cable in homes, so there's a lot a easy fixes that can help out.
You should be able to lock in on all the local HD stations carried by TWC with QAM if your connections are good.

pixelswim

12-07-06, 01:05 PM

engineer, Thanks for that explanation of DXing - I've seen that term before and just assumed it meant "looking around for interesting things to listen to" - never knew the meaning you've explained.

Thanks for the wiring advice: you made me remember that my wife sent me on an errand and I let my boys attach the coax to the new tv while I was out, so I should check to see that they had the patience to screw it on all the way. I have every reason to think the rest of my wiring should be good. I found a good wire guy out of Raleigh and contracted with him to put a nice new amplifier under my basement steps and all new coax throughout the house of the type I had researched on the internet. He said my signal was excellent coming in and at all outlets.

It's very interesting, the stuff you guys are talking about - I looked it up and now see that you are discussing external tuner boxes from samsung.

Let me ask again - I have -not- subscribed to digital service from TWC and a rep on the phone there said he thought I might have a "digital trap" on the pole outside. I do get both "Basic" and "Standard" service, not just "Basic." From what I've read on this forum it seems like the usual trap would have to be removed for "Standard" (higher analog frequencies I believe) to work. Does this sound right or is there more about "traps" that you and the other guys know?

Thanks again! --pixelswim

drewwho

12-07-06, 01:17 PM

Let me ask again - I have -not- subscribed to digital service from TWC and a rep on the phone there said he thought I might have a "digital trap" on the pole outside.

I have fluctuated between basic+std, basic, and just a cable modem over the last 3 years and have not had any problems with QAM tuning in that time. I'm pretty sure that a cable modem resides in the frequency range used for most of their QAM channels, so perhaps that is what is saving me. According to my modem, its downstream is at 609000000Hz right now...

Do check your cables..

Drew

DonB2

12-07-06, 04:41 PM

I had a strange thing happen while testing my new Samsung DTB-H260F against my Pioneer Plasmas built in tuner.

I tried selecting several different ATSC channels on the Pioneer and got a No signal screen.

It was like the antenna was not hooked up. But when I viewed signal strength they all showed high 90's as usual.

Meanwhile the Samsung on the other half of the splitter was picking up stations fine.

I even did a Rescan on the Pioneer and it did not help.

I finally just turned the Pioneer off and back on and than I was able to get all the ATSC stations in.

Never had this happen before and I hope it does not happen again.

-DonB2

pixelswim

12-07-06, 06:36 PM

I have fluctuated between basic+std, basic, and just a cable modem over the last 3 years and have not had any problems with QAM tuning in that time. I'm pretty sure that a cable modem resides in the frequency range used for most of their QAM channels, so perhaps that is what is saving me. According to my modem, its downstream is at 609000000Hz right now...

Do check your cables..

Drew

Drew,
Do the channel numbers you punch in conform to any of the columns in the link that Erik Garci posted back on page 220? He is in Durham, you are in Cary and I'm in Chapel Hill, so maybe we are on different TWC systems but you guys are as close as I seem to be able to get to find any information.

I also have a cable modem just like you and it has worked flawlessly for a long time. It is using the same main cable to the house but of course a different branch from my splitter/amp. The new TV is an LN-S5296D and has NTSC, ATSC and QAM tuners built in. It seems incredible to me that they wouldn't work but I remember one post somewhere on AVS where someone returned a tv from the 96D series for a bad tuner.

At this point I'm still inclined to think I just don't know what I'm doing yet, that these local digital stations are out there hidden midst the hundreds of stations the channel searcher finds but that then turn up with a message of scrambled/weak when you go to them. I don't think/don't know if the tv shows signal strength for a given channel.

--pixelswim

pixelswim

12-08-06, 12:28 AM

Well -finally- I had enough time to get it together... I think what happened was that the other night my channel search found a ton of scrambled channels above the analog ones but below the digital ones - I was slowly working my way through them and ran out of time. Or maybe it was that I re-scanned, I don't know.

Anyway, now they are all there and they match up almost perfectly with the ones in DonB2's post and the following Durham one in the link. So the QAM physical column is about exactly what I got from the tuner in the new Samsung TV. I'm getting all 5 HD channels, which look stunning for the most part. These things in 1080i on unc-hd getting changed into the 1080p are so beautiful they are hard to stop looking at.

goodnight! --pixelswim

pixelswim

12-08-06, 09:40 AM

Goood morning RaleighReceptioners (...won't pixelswim ever shut up?),
Well I'm really happy now that QAM is behaving the way I expected. I think my lesson was that re-scanning for channels from time-to-time can't hurt if you're willing to do it.

So last night I think I found almost everything on the Erik Garci chart. Funny thing was that the NBC ones were not picked up. I tried 111-1,-2,-3 several times but couldn't get them. But -they- were among the ones I know I was getting before. And to top it off, I could swear at one point I was getting them on what my TV said was 17-1,-2,-3, which is the OTA - Digital(8VSB) - Virtual column in Erik's chart.

So I'm going to speculate that perhaps since the set has all 3 tuner types, I might be getting some antenna effect without an antenna. The TWC cable is coming in to my Ant2-Cable input. The Antenna1 input is just sitting there, a threaded stub with nothing on it (is there such a thing as an endcap device like we used to have in the old coax ethernet days? I don't think so!) And besides, the TV gives a lot of screen info about each channel and I don't think it indicated a different source on the 17-1 etc.

I guess specuation 2 might be that there is something funny about the algorithm the sammy uses to assign a channel number to what it has found.

Speculation 3 is that the TWC engineers are always playing around solving other problems and at times things are set different ways. I've heard of times when a channel is mistakenly left unscrambled and 17engineer has talked about times when there are problems and feeds don't get provided.

Speculation 4 (pixelswim is not methodical about his observations - well we know this one is true)

drewwho

12-08-06, 09:44 AM

Drew,
Do the channel numbers you punch in conform to any of the columns in the link that Erik Garci posted back on page 220?

Yes, nearly perfectly. On my old Zenith TV w/integrated tuner, I don't see the virtual mappings for QAM, and I have to use the raw channel number. Eg, I use 90.2 for PBS-HD, rather than 4-2. I'm glad to hear that you've finally managed to get things set up. It sounds like for a $5k TV, they could make the channel scan a bit easier to use :)

Drew

drewwho

12-08-06, 09:56 AM

Funny thing was that the NBC ones were not picked up. I tried 111-1,-2,-3 several times but couldn't get them. But -they- were among the ones I know I was getting before. And to top it off, I could swear at one point I was getting them on what my TV said was 17-1,-2,-3, which is the OTA - Digital(8VSB) - Virtual column in Erik's chart.

I *think* that the virtual channel mappings (along with call signs, etc), are part of the PSIP information, and I *think* that TWC passes PSIP through unmolested, so it is possible that your 111-1 was getting remapped by your tuner as 17-1. As to not being able to get it now, remember what NBC17ENG said: his QAM channel is one of the most sensitive to cabling problems.

I used to be annoyed that my Zenith makes you do a channel scan to switch between QAM and ATSC sources (thus preventing easy surfing to OTA HD from QAM). After seeing what you're going through, I'm thinking that Zenith's policy of keeping QAM and ATSC rigidly separate is a good thing :)

(is there such a thing as an endcap device like we used to have in the old coax ethernet days? I don't think so!)

Actually, I have a cheap (yet overpriced) radio shack amplified splitter which came with a set of end caps which reminded me of terminators from the bad old coax ethernet days..

Drew

pixelswim

12-08-06, 09:59 AM

OK, so now that I'm happy with how the QAM tuner works off of a raw cable (onto which TWC is putting Basic, Standard and CableModem) I'm ready for the next step.

My next step was going to be to order the lowest TWC digital service -without- ordering a CableCard or STB. My thinking was that they would make some change at the headend or on my pole and then my QAM tuner would pick up a bunch more of the digital channels I'm not getting now. Those would be some of the ones that the channel search finds but then can't display anything on.

My further speculation was that I wouldn't get any of the truly scrambled premium channels because there would be no CableCard or STB to unscramble them.

*BUT*, I'm also now wondering if I'm just ignorant of how this works! Is it that to get -any- of these further digtital channels (for this step I'm assuming I would have to order the so-called DigiPic 1000 or whatever it's called) I would -have- to have either a CableCard or STB? (I'm asking you guys because most of the folks who answer the phone at TWC seem to have never heard of digital without a box...)

pixelswim

12-08-06, 10:13 AM

(...)
I used to be annoyed that my Zenith makes you do a channel scan to switch between QAM and ATSC sources (thus preventing easy surfing to OTA HD from QAM). After seeing what you're going through, I'm thinking that Zenith's policy of keeping QAM and ATSC rigidly separate is a good thing :)
(...)
Drew

Drew, No, it's just my bad description of all this. I think the sammy's channel search is quite flexible. In order to start the search you -choose- which tuners and which modulation schemes (STD,IRC,HRC) you want and I've been choosing both at once.

The bad part is trying to study the results because it finds so many "empty" digital channels out there! It just takes a long time if you are curious to find surprises.

pixel

On the sammy, in the channel manager, you can do what I assume is usual for these HD sets, besides keeping or dropping the channel, you can put name tags on it and put it in a favorites list and stuff like that. You can see about 15 channels per page in the list and move around with your cursor.

pixelswim

12-08-06, 10:24 AM

I *think* that the virtual channel mappings (along with call signs, etc), are part of the PSIP information, and I *think* that TWC passes PSIP through unmolested, so it is possible that your 111-1 was getting remapped by your tuner as 17-1. (...)

Drew

Oh, this sounds like fun! Now I'm going to have to go out and learn about PSIP. I'm the type that has to take an extra week on a side trip to find out why photons are given off so readily from phosphors (and then I promptly forget what I learned..)

Anybody have any good links about PSIP (besides the usual googs and wikis?)

drewwho

12-08-06, 10:30 AM

My next step was going to be to order the lowest TWC digital service -without- ordering a CableCard or STB.

That will get you nothing but a higher bill. In fact, will they even sell you digital service without a either a CC or a STB?? At any rate, in order to get any scrambled digital channels, you need either a CableCard or a TWC STB to unscramble them.

Drew

DonB2

12-08-06, 10:54 AM

pixelswim,

Yes they sell Coax terminators as I have one. I believe I got it at Home Despot. Small gold cap sorta like a tire valve stem cap, with a wire down the center of the cap. They are very inexpensive. I would think RS would have them also.

A exposed cable end could be picking up some stray OTA channels and causing you some channel search issues.

In regards to QAM non broadcast HD channels. I tested my SAMSUNG DTB-H260F in upstate NY and got several of the HD suite channels via QAM cable.

They were National Geographic HD and Discovery HD plus a few others.

Only one of the group came thru with audio and video. The others only came thru with Video. I am guessing the audio is scrambled but this is only a guess.

ALso one of the HD channels you could view the audio via CC but another one had CC disabled.

-DonB2

drewwho

12-08-06, 11:45 AM

got several of the HD suite channels via QAM cable.

These tend to come and go, and usually have issues like the lack of audio you observed.. You can't really count on anything but the major broadcast networks being available. For the longest time we had TNT-HD and Discovery, then they finally scrambled them earlier this year. ESPN-HD showed up for a few weeks over the summer, etc..

Drew

pixelswim

12-08-06, 04:11 PM

Drew,DonB2,

Thanks for the continuing comments. After I made the comment about 111-2,-3,-4 not being there I realized I had not re-checked 17-1. So when I had to stop by the house I checked it and yes, there are the NBC ones which seem to have remapped themselves to 17-1,-2,-3 ... so maybe these stations are indeed having this done via PSIP (Oh, and yes there was indeed plenty of info on PSIP in wikipedia.)

That will get you nothing but a higher bill. In fact, will they even sell you digital service without a either a CC or a STB?? At any rate, in order to get any scrambled digital channels, you need either a CableCard or a TWC STB to unscramble them.

Drew

So Drew, I'm assuming you didn't mean to imply that there are not more channels offered in the digital package, just that you probably need the CC/STB to unlock any of them, right? I'll have to figure out if you have to do some sort of a la carte digital ordering with a CC since the digi packages seem to clearly assume you will get a box.

BTW, do those stand-alone tuners DonB2 has been talking about show individual channel signal strengths? It looks they have pretty good display capability.

--pixelswim

NBC17ENG

12-09-06, 09:07 AM

Rewound

12-09-06, 12:12 PM

Well, looks like Dish Network finally started enabling some of the HD locals for the Raleigh area.

I checked this morning and ABC (WTVD) and NBC (WNCN) are enabled.

Not sure why CW isn't there like DirecTV but CBS and FOX are similarly absent.

RALEIGH ABC-WTVD IN HD, satellite 118.7, channel 6465, transponder 719
RALEIGH NBC-WNCN IN HD, satellite 118.7, channel 6467, transponder 722

Scooper

12-09-06, 12:41 PM

1 word - "Sinclair".

rocketwdl

12-09-06, 05:40 PM

really 1080i ?have txn3075whf /8300hddvr...samsung said 1080i would come thru components,do not have dvi connector on tv.is this true or should i do something else?all set ups are correct.advice appreciated..rocketwdl....would someone please reply! tg :D...again would someone answer my question please ? tg

posg

12-09-06, 05:53 PM

The whole system works on PSIP tables, and the basic info tells your tuner the signal on UHF 55 has 3 streams and to map it as 17-1,2,3. The full program guide, ratings, scramble flags and other tables were added by law a couple of years back. TWC does strip off our tables, and inserts theirs to map it for their system since their frequencies are usually different from OTA frequencies, and they map to a different virtual channel. I'm sure there's a mathematical reason 17-1 maps to 217 on cable and 111 on QAM, but that's beyond me.

If the PSIP data gets corrupted, you get the infamous black screen, 99% signal strength indication, and you have to re-scan to get it back. The same affect if it is scrambled, and the TWC STB or CC is required to de-scramble it.

Channel 217 is a virtual channel number, just like 17.1 is. Channel 111 is the actual physical cable channel.

My Sony ClearQAM tuner remaps the locals based on their virtual broadcast channel (5.1, 11.1, 17.1, etc) rather than the virual cable channel, unless I use a cable card, in which case it shows the virtual channel number.

So virtual 217 is on QAM physical channel 111 which is transcoded from UHF channel 55 but identifies itself as 17.1. :o :o :o :o :o

pixelswim

12-10-06, 11:35 AM

(...)

So virtual 217 is on QAM physical channel 111 which is transcoded from UHF channel 55 but identifies itself as 17.1. :o :o :o :o :o

NBC17Eng,posg,
You are my heros! You are speeding up my Digital Channel 101 education!

In the education world, I'm going to keep trying to understand these psip tables and transcodings and frequency uses ('cause I think this kind of engineering world is often more fun than what's on tv anyway..)

In my practical world I'm now going to move on to the "next experiment." Now that I'm satisfied that the QAM tuner can do it's complete job (thanks to help from you guys!) I've ordered up a CableCard and hope to have my installation visit on Wednesday. I shall report my CableCard installation experience here. I tried and tried to have them just let me pick it up and install it myself (as I thought was perhaps the original vision of the guys at CableLabs who worked out the cablecard standards.) I've read reports that the guys who come to your house often know less about it than you do. I'm very interested in what the heck interaction needs to happen between the cablecard installer and the geek at the headend console. Does anybody know? Is any gear other than the cablecard involved in the installation?

your friend --pixelswim

scsiraid

12-10-06, 11:57 AM

NBC17Eng,posg,
You are my heros! You are speeding up my Digital Channel 101 education!

In the education world, I'm going to keep trying to understand these psip tables and transcodings and frequency uses ('cause I think this kind of engineering world is often more fun than what's on tv anyway..)

In my practical world I'm now going to move on to the "next experiment." Now that I'm satisfied that the QAM tuner can do it's complete job (thanks to help from you guys!) I've ordered up a CableCard and hope to have my installation visit on Wednesday. I shall report my CableCard installation experience here. I tried and tried to have them just let me pick it up and install it myself (as I thought was perhaps the original vision of the guys at CableLabs who worked out the cablecard standards.) I've read reports that the guys who come to your house often know less about it than you do. I'm very interested in what the heck interaction needs to happen between the cablecard installer and the geek at the headend console. Does anybody know? Is any gear other than the cablecard involved in the installation?

your friend --pixelswim

There are really two things that have to happen. The first is 'pairing'. The cablecard is installed into the device and the cablecard menu of the device is accessed. The numbers found in that menu are then supplied back to the cableco for entry into the 'system'. A 'hit' is done to enable the cablecard to decode the encrypted streams. The second is 'entitlement'. This tells the cablecard what programming you are subscribed to and thus entitled/allowed to decode.

Good Luck. Cablecard installations range from simple to horrible. Which you get depends on the installer and who the installer talks to when they call in the information. I have two cablecards in a Tivo Series 3. The first card was simple as it was moved from a tv and was already 'entitled' properly. The second was a pain and took about 4 hours for twc to sort out and get working.

posg

12-10-06, 07:14 PM

NBC17Eng,posg,
You are my heros! You are speeding up my Digital Channel 101 education!

In the education world, I'm going to keep trying to understand these psip tables and transcodings and frequency uses ('cause I think this kind of engineering world is often more fun than what's on tv anyway..)

In my practical world I'm now going to move on to the "next experiment." Now that I'm satisfied that the QAM tuner can do it's complete job (thanks to help from you guys!) I've ordered up a CableCard and hope to have my installation visit on Wednesday. I shall report my CableCard installation experience here. I tried and tried to have them just let me pick it up and install it myself (as I thought was perhaps the original vision of the guys at CableLabs who worked out the cablecard standards.) I've read reports that the guys who come to your house often know less about it than you do. I'm very interested in what the heck interaction needs to happen between the cablecard installer and the geek at the headend console. Does anybody know? Is any gear other than the cablecard involved in the installation?

your friend --pixelswim

Thanks for the compliment.

CableCards are a "stop-gap" compromise which doesn't seem to work very well. OCAP will make them obsolete over the long haul. Sony doesn't even offer CableCard slots in this year's XBR series. (They did last year).

As TWC rolls out switched digital video, CableCard will offer even less compatibilty with enhanced services. But give us your feedback. :)

VisionOn

12-10-06, 07:58 PM

Sony doesn't even offer CableCard slots in this year's XBR series. (They did last year).

those are just the Grand Wega's that don't have teh CableCard feature. They still offer CableCard on the more expensive XBR2 series. Didn't those only come out in the last two months?

DonB2

12-11-06, 10:23 AM

"If the PSIP data gets corrupted, you get the infamous black screen, 99% signal strength indication, and you have to re-scan to get it back. The same affect if it is scrambled, and the TWC STB or CC is required to de-scramble it. "

I experienced this for the first time last week. Black screen with 99 percent signal strength on ATSC OTA.

-DonB2

DonB2

12-11-06, 10:28 AM

Rewound,

"Not sure why CW isn't there like DirecTV but CBS and FOX are similarly absent."

Thanks for the update on Dish locals, I have been thinking about Dish for awhile now.

BTW- I hope they get CW as I really enjoyed watching the Original Star Trek series in ATSC albiet 4:3 mode Sunday evening. It looked so much better than the weak OTA NTSC signals I have watched it on over the years. Even when I stretched it to 16:9 it still looked great.

-DonB2

Fmstrat

12-11-06, 11:04 AM

I watched a bit of the game last night (the last 2 minutes or so of the 1st half), and it seemed to be in HD then. Maybe it was switching in and out, and I just got lucky?

Speaking of HD football, did anybody notice that in the Giants/Cowboys game, they "forgot" to go to commercial? For a while there was a live shot of them lining up for the kickoff, and then what looked like fast forward/rewind of players on the sideline. I love it when stuff like that happens...

BTW, I wish all the networks would either stop greying out the bottom or top of the screen to the left and the right of the score, or make use of that real estate to provide additional information which is not available on SD...

Drew

Are you talking about the football game on last Sunday night, or the show before it, "Football Night in America", that starts at 7PM? It was SD for me through the whole show, however yesterday the 10th, everything appears to have come through in HD (haven't watched it yet, but checked a few frames from Mythweb).

Either way, it's good now, so I'm happy. :)

CCsoftball7

12-11-06, 11:43 AM

I recently moved from an apartment to a house. I tried to have a cable card installed (no luck...another story for another day). The TWC tech had to "reset" my TV. When I rescanned, my 5.1 remapped to 85.2. Has anyone else rescanned lately and had the same issue? It previously mapped to C5.1. My OTA would then be mapped to 5.1. Any ideas?

TV: Sony KDS-R60XBR1
Cable: TWC (what else is around here)
Location: Cary

Thanks.

Jeff

NBC17ENG

12-11-06, 05:23 PM

A Boom truck snagged overhead wires in Garner just after noon, which knocked out power and data to the Auburn TV site affecting all stations, but WRAL and WRAZ took the biggest hit because their signal travels via fiber on those broken wires from the studios to the site. They have been scrambling to get the signals reestablished, and are back up at last check a little while ago. I'm not sure how many streams they can get back online tonight, but your STB may have burped the PSIP line-up out of its' memory. Cable subscribers should be fine, but I'd expect they may be missing a subchannel or two. All part of living in a fast growing area.

posg

12-11-06, 06:06 PM

NBC17ENG

You promised we'd lose the "popcorn" in the "local to network" segues. It still seems to be there.

NBC17ENG

12-11-06, 06:26 PM

Ah, but lower, quicker, and more often! Did I promise, or say hopefully? Hum. Still working on it.

HDTVFanAtic

12-12-06, 04:25 AM

Cable subscribers should be fine

Are all the Raleigh locals delivering their HD signal to TWC via fiber?

That is uncommon at this point for most TWC markets. They are only doing that for 1 station in my local market and I am not sure the other stations are even concerned about it.

The only reason the one is getting it done that they are owned by Scripps Howard.

NBC17ENG

12-12-06, 08:55 AM

dslate69

12-12-06, 09:26 AM

Looks like you TWC subs are going to be getting MHD.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/timemhd121106.htm

I guess y'all can catch-up on the top 10 video count down on thursday nights.
I'll be watching Football. :)

DonB2

12-12-06, 09:42 AM

Scooper

12-12-06, 09:45 AM

Scooper

12-12-06, 09:48 AM

DonB2 - the channels above 51 will cease to be used for broadcast TV once the ATSC transition is over - at least in the long run. So, all the Raleigh channels currently broadcasting up there will be going to new / old channel assignments - I'm not exactly sure what they will be. I'm sure somebody around here does.

foxeng

12-12-06, 10:29 AM

"morning of 2/17/09."

What is PBS WUNC suppose to be broadcast on when NTSC goes away? I remember a post saying it would be moved to a different frequency.

I hope it is a frequency not in the 50's as having it in the 50's makes using a Channel Master antenna Joiner almost useless since so many other local channels coming from the opposite direction are also in the 50's.

-DonB2

Let's see if my feeble brain can remember correctly without looking up the table.

WUNC moves to 25
WTVD goes back to 11
WRAL moves to 48
WNCN goes back to 17
WLFL moves to 27 after WRDC goes back to 28
WRAZ stays on 49

WCTI New Bern currently on 48 moves back to 12 and WMYV-TV Greensboro 48 stays on its digital channel 33 to allow WRAL to move to 48.

DonB2

12-12-06, 10:34 AM

DonB2

12-12-06, 11:29 AM

"WLFL moves to 27 after WRDC goes back to 28"

Foxeng,

Thanks for the info. It looks like getting a new Channel Master Antenna Joiner will not work than either since WLFL and WRDC are within about 5 of WUNC.

_DonB2

HDTVFanAtic

12-12-06, 12:43 PM

No, not every station can afford doing it that way, but yesterday was a prime example of why it's a good idea. Being on cable reaching a large part of the market via fiber to TWC even while off the air, is better than being dead in the water OTA and cable. Our HD fiber feed is being installed in the next few weeks. Cable penetration is so high in this area, it makes sense. It wouldn't make good business sense in smaller markets, but here it does, especially as a back-up to the transmission system. Stations do not like to have a single point of failure in the delivery system. It will also be a very handy tool on the morning of 2/17/09.

I don't disagree - just somewhat surprised as MOST stations have yet to install the fiber HD feed - given their feelings towards HD Viewership.

On a side note, the fiber HD cable feed locally is actually several frames ahead of the OTA feed as it has less delay than the route to the transmitter.

When fios is available to the masses, it would be nice if the stations had another encoder with a high bitrate feed to deliver to via a closed system.

foxeng

12-12-06, 12:50 PM

In Greensboro:

WFMY stays on 51
WGHP moves from 35 back to 8
WXII stays on 31
WGPX stays on 14
WCWG stays on 19
WXLV stays on 29
WUNL stays on 32
WMYV stays on 33
WLXI stays on 43

Eastern NC:

WITN stays on 32
WFXI moves back to 8
WNCT stays on 10
WCTI goes back to 12
WUMN goes back to 19
WPXU stays on 34
WEPX goes to 51
WUNK stays on 23
WUNP stays on 36
WRPX stays on 15
WRAY goes back to 42
WSKY goes to 9
WUND stays on 20
WYDO goes back to 14
WUVC stays on 38
WFPX stays on 36
WWAY stays on 46
WECT stays on 44
WSFX stays on 30
WUNJ stays on 29

Scooper

12-12-06, 01:29 PM

Scooper ,

Thanks, So above 51 and also the VHF ones if I remember correctly.

Hmm I just thought of something I had not thought of before and that is the stations that a lot of us receive from other cities under 60 miles away. I hope they don't put a local and a not so local on the same frequency seeing as there are fewer frequencies to choose from after the switch.

-DonB2

No - VHF (2-13) will still be available for DTV. However, LO-VHF (2-6) has so much problems with ATSC that most stations would rather not go back there. One could almost look at HI-VHF (7-13) as the sweet spot to be - relatively good transmission characterstics yet has lower power requirements compared to UHF.

As far as channal adjacency - my understanding is that channel assignments up and down the east coast are very much a "domino effect" - change one station, and then you're making changes up and down the whole coast, from Florida to Canada.

DonB2

12-12-06, 01:45 PM

Scooper and FOxEng,

Thanks for the info. Maybe I better make my next attic mounted antenna a combo vhf uhf.

Am I missing WRAZ-DT ?

DonB2

Wilson-Flyer

12-12-06, 04:01 PM

NBC17ENG - I've noticed your comments on this incident are more of a "concerned fellow broadcaster" rather than those of a rivalry. Is this sort of the norm - competitve hype on the marketing side, mutual assistance on the technical side ? In any event, even if I'm not currently getting ATSC, we do appreciate the updates .

Hey NBC17Eng... Tell Scooper where your transmitter antenna lives. LOL (All in good fun. :) )

I was a VERY early adopter of OTA HDTV in this area (was a beta site for WRAL HD when it was on channel 32 if that tells you anything) and worked with several engineers and control rooms during the early transitions and issues (and man did we have some early on! LOL) .

It has always seemed to me that the rivalries stopped in the marketing departments. I had several occasions (especially during the early days when we had a LOT of audio and especially PSIP problems) when engineers from one station helped engineers from a rival station straighten out issues.

Many of these stations have vested interests in a rival's equipment and functionality because of co-location of equipment as well as many other reasons.

All of the Raleigh area stations seem to be very good about working together. I suspect this is the case in a lot of other places too. :)

NBC17ENG

12-12-06, 04:19 PM

NBC17ENG

12-12-06, 04:38 PM

Hey NBC17Eng... Tell Scooper where your transmitter antenna lives. LOL (All in good fun. )

You mean that we broadcast from an abandoned tobacco barn on the Johnston county line atop a telephone pole infested with woodpeckers?

scsiraid

12-12-06, 04:55 PM

Wilson-Flyer

12-12-06, 05:59 PM

akp

12-13-06, 09:26 AM

I scanned back through a couple of months of postings and didn't see a discussion about this, my apologies if it's a rerun....

I live and Cary and have TWC service through a SA8300HD DVR. The output of the DVR goes into my Denon 3805 A/V receiver. I have the receiver set to auto mode, so it should detect an audio mode based on the input.

I have noticed that recently (not sure when this started) the receiver is displaying "TV Stereo" for everything coming from the SA8300HD, so it appears to be basic 2-channel audio. In the past, I would get something like "Dolby Digital". I have not changed anything in my setup or configuration that would explain the change.

Does anyone know if something changed with some relatively recent TWC software "upgrade" that would explain what I am seeing?

Scooper

12-13-06, 09:47 AM

akp - probably depends on the channel AND the program being shown.

akp

12-13-06, 09:53 AM

akp - probably depends on the channel AND the program being shown.
Yes, I agree. Until recently, as I switched between channels/programs, I would see some variability in the Dolby formats that the receiver was detecting. However, now, no matter what the channel or program, I am getting only basic 2-channel stereo.

TiUser

12-13-06, 09:59 AM

CCsoftball7

12-13-06, 10:02 AM

Losing WUNC and WRAL HD in Durham TWC
Since last weekend, we aren't able to receive HD channels for WUNC and CBS via QAM with standard cable service from TWC. Other local HD channels like Fox, NBC, and ABC are fine. I've rescanned the channels multiple times to no avail. Any suggestions? Thank you.

I posted earlier this week. Mine remapped from 4.1 and 5.1 to ??? and 85.1 (or 2). Try to rescan and look at channels up in the 80's. I can look tonight and post back.

Jeff

TiUser

12-13-06, 10:39 AM

Thanks, CCsoftball7. 85.2 worked for CBS. Is there any way to know when and how the remapping will take place and adjust accordingly?

Hiatt66

12-13-06, 11:19 AM

akp

12-13-06, 12:31 PM

akp-that happens to me as well. I have to push the settings button and then push the more settings button and scroll to digital output and choose the stereo option and then go back and choose Digital and it sorts itself out. All this is done on the remote. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the reply... I looked through the settings last night and saw that the "digital output" setting was configured for "Dolby Digital", so I just left it as is. So, you're saying that you toggle it from Dolby Digital to Stereo and then back to Dolby Digital? If that's what you're suggesting, I'll give it a shot tonight.

Hiatt66

12-13-06, 01:05 PM

Yep....That's what I have to do to get back my digital.

Oh...and hope you have a Merry Christmas.

dons1

12-13-06, 04:25 PM

I posted earlier this week. Mine remapped from 4.1 and 5.1 to ??? and 85.1 (or 2). Try to rescan and look at channels up in the 80's. I can look tonight and post back.

Jeff

Thanks for posting the problem with receiving UNC-HD. I looked into this problem this afternoon and the virtual channel information is currently missing from the feed. I have sent messages to TWC to alert them to the problem.

BTW, the physical channels are 90 for UNC-TV and 85 for WRAL (at least in Durham). So the HD channels would be 90.2 and 85.2 respectively. This assumes that your receiver will decode these services when the virtual channel info is missing. Some receivers will do this and other won't.

Don Smith
UNC-TV Eng. Supervisor, Special Projects

pixelswim

12-13-06, 04:50 PM

There are really two things that have to happen. The first is 'pairing'. The cablecard is installed into the device and the cablecard menu of the device is accessed. The numbers found in that menu are then supplied back to the cableco for entry into the 'system'. A 'hit' is done to enable the cablecard to decode the encrypted streams. The second is 'entitlement'. This tells the cablecard what programming you are subscribed to and thus entitled/allowed to decode.

Good Luck. Cablecard installations range from simple to horrible. Which you get depends on the installer and who the installer talks to when they call in the information. I have two cablecards in a Tivo Series 3. The first card was simple as it was moved from a tv and was already 'entitled' properly. The second was a pain and took about 4 hours for twc to sort out and get working.

Wow! Today I spent 6 hours with two cablecard guys and the guy at the headend at TWC and in the end it all failed. I'm taking notes so I can share this with others who are curious about cablecard - personally I find it all very interesting.

scsiraid

12-13-06, 05:27 PM

Wow! Today I spent 6 hours with two cablecard guys and the guy at the headend at TWC and in the end it all failed. I'm taking notes so I can share this with others who are curious about cablecard - personally I find it all very interesting.

Sounds like that qualifies towards the 'horrible' end of the scale.....

Looks like I have developed a cablecard or tuner problem today too.... One of my tuners wont tune any cable digital channels. All I get is a black screen and no audio. OTA digital is fine. Diag menu looks like the card is alive and tuning but no datastream. I power cycled it but no difference.

IamtheWolf

12-13-06, 06:19 PM

pixelswim

12-13-06, 09:08 PM

Sounds like that qualifies towards the 'horrible' end of the scale.....

Looks like I have developed a cablecard or tuner problem today too.... One of my tuners wont tune any cable digital channels. All I get is a black screen and no audio. OTA digital is fine. Diag menu looks like the card is alive and tuning but no datastream. I power cycled it but no difference.

During the 6 hours there was one point when everything went crazy and the local guy with me told the guy on the phone that the tv must have messed up - the guy at TWC said "No, all the servers just went down and everything here is a mess." Then it was back ok after a few seconds but we had to restart the TV.

akp

12-13-06, 10:30 PM

Yep....That's what I have to do to get back my digital.
Hiatt66, great call! I toggled that setting from Dolby Digital to Two-Channel and then back to Dolby Digital and now my Denon has switched to Dolby Digital audio mode. :) I never would have considered that without the suggestion.

Oh...and hope you have a Merry Christmas.
And a Merry Christmas to you too!

akp

12-13-06, 10:34 PM

Is it possible that your Denon remote has pre-select type buttons that may have been mistakenly hit? Of course, that would be one that reads "TV/Stereo" if it exists. I'd check both the Receiver and 8300 settings when tackling this.
Yes, the Denon remote does have soft buttons for pre-selecting different modes, but I had verified that the 3805 was still in "Auto" mode for the DVR input. Hiatt66's suggestion for toggling the digital output mode on the DVR seems to have straightened things out.

jamieh1

12-13-06, 10:41 PM

ATTENTION DIRECTV HR20 HDDVR OWNERS>>>>

Tonight from 11p to 2a Directv will going to open a window for you to down load the latest beta version software that includes OTA tuner activation and Viiv computer photo and music sharing.
This is only from 11p to 2am est time.

To force the update reset recvr, them when the welcome screen comes on press 02468 on the remote.

If you dont like the update do the reset and the 02468 again andit will revert back to the old version.

Warning do not do another force until the release go national or you will loose it.

go to dbstalk.com for more...

HDTVFanAtic

12-14-06, 04:23 AM

Wow! Today I spent 6 hours with two cablecard guys and the guy at the headend at TWC and in the end it all failed. I'm taking notes so I can share this with others who are curious about cablecard - personally I find it all very interesting.

And people wonder why they can't just go and pick up a cable card - plug it in and avoid an install fee from the cable company.

CCsoftball7

12-14-06, 07:46 AM

Thanks for posting the problem with receiving UNC-HD. I looked into this problem this afternoon and the virtual channel information is currently missing from the feed. I have sent messages to TWC to alert them to the problem.

BTW, the physical channels are 90 for UNC-TV and 85 for WRAL (at least in Durham). So the HD channels would be 90.2 and 85.2 respectively. This assumes that your receiver will decode these services when the virtual channel info is missing. Some receivers will do this and other won't.

Don Smith
UNC-TV Eng. Supervisor, Special Projects

Don,

Thank you very much for the information. Any idea if it's the same for WRAL?

Jeff

Hiatt66

12-14-06, 10:18 AM

Hiatt66, great call! I toggled that setting from Dolby Digital to Two-Channel and then back to Dolby Digital and now my Denon has switched to Dolby Digital audio mode. :) I never would have considered that without the suggestion.

And a Merry Christmas to you too!

Glad it worked out for you. Now I need to get a new amp cause it's wigging out and not sending anything to the rear speakers and occasionally the fronts. The center is fine though. I hate watching movies and such without the rears.

dons1

12-14-06, 02:46 PM

Don,

Thank you very much for the information. Any idea if it's the same for WRAL?

Jeff

This morning around 8:30am, TWC reset some of their equipment and it appears to have straightened out the UNC-TV problem. In looking at the virtual channel info, it looks like TWC is trying to get the UNC-TV digital channels to appear on digital cable ready sets on the same channels as on the STB's (200-204). I have no way of testing this here to make sure it works.

The WRAL transport stream is still missing the virtual channel info.

Don

posg

12-14-06, 03:59 PM

rollcage

12-14-06, 05:25 PM

rollcage

12-15-06, 12:13 AM

posg

12-15-06, 07:22 AM

Today I connected the TWC 8300HD DVR to my Sony KDS-60A2000. I’m letting the DVR convert everything to 1080i right now. Does anyone have a problem with a thin black vertical bar between the gray bar and the left side of the picture on their SD channels? I get it on channel 41 (Headline News), 50 (FSN) and 71 (FX) amongst others. I get it on both the HDMI and component outputs in all resolutions. Perhaps my DVR has an issue? The bar doesn’t appear on the same channels when the DVR is by-passed (cable connected directly to TV).
Thank you!

Normal. This happens on channels that are received in analog format and converted to digital locally. The digital "pass through" channels are generally OK. You can tell what format TWC receives the feed by comparing the delay between the analog and digital version of the channel. If the audio leads on the analog version, the source is analog, and vice versa.

Here's a solution. Set the 8300 output to 16:9 Stretch and the Sony to Normal. This gives you a 4:3 without the gray sidebars, however it squashes the guide screens while using a 4:3 channel.

dons1

12-15-06, 09:19 AM

This morning Mike and the guys at TWC got the UNC-TV and WRAL digital cable channel problems straightened out. Many thanks to them for their efforts in getting these two related problems resolved.

On the clear QAM receivers UNC-TV should again be on channels 4-1 through 4-5 and WRAL-HD on 5-1.

Don

hbehrman

12-15-06, 10:21 AM

Wow ... I'm so glad I happened on this thread. I'm new to the world of HD and live in Raleigh. Could anyone please suggest an ISF calibrator in our area that can do test patterns over HDMI? Seems everyone I've called only has the equipment to do component.
Thanks!!!

I am interested in this as well. I have a Samsung CRT with component and the Westinghouse W3213 with one HDMi, 2 component, etc... that I am considering getting ISF calibrated. If there is a reputable ISF calibrater locally that would be fantastic.

scsiraid

12-15-06, 10:25 AM

I am interested in this as well. I have a Samsung CRT with component and the Westinghouse W3213 with one HDMi, 2 component, etc... that I am considering getting ISF calibrated. If there is a reputable ISF calibrater locally that would be fantastic.

Audio Advice has does calibration. Tweeter also has a guy who can calibrate (Andy Feltes).

Or you can get on Eliab's schedule for his next tour thru the area... He did a great job on mine.
www.avical.com

dslate69

12-15-06, 10:33 AM

Two months with no posts and that's the best you can do ??? :D :D :D
Two months ago I started flipping through my HD channels, remember I have DISH so it takes a while to get through all of them. :D

I am surprised that with all the clammering for more HD content, I didn't even get a nibble.

rollcage

12-15-06, 11:45 AM

Audio Advice has does calibration. Tweeter also has a guy who can calibrate (Andy Feltes).

Or you can get on Eliab's schedule for his next tour thru the area... He did a great job on mine.
www.avical.com

Unfortunately, Audio Advice currently does not have the equipment to do pattern generation over HDMI. However, Gary, their calibrator, believes they will purchase this equipment sooner than later. I haven't contacted Tweeter.

There are 3 traveling calibrators coming through our area in the next few months:
Chad Billheimer: www.HDTVbyChadB.com (returning second week of Feb)
Jeff Meier: www.accucal.org (returning in May)
Eliab Alvarez de la Campa: www.avical.com (returning 1/30-2/12)

All are well respected on these forums, but all are also fairly expensive compared to the price Audio Advice gave me. I think I might go with Chad ... he charges a flat price (no travel costs!) and calibrates all used inputs/scanrates.

rollcage

12-15-06, 03:59 PM

Normal. This happens on channels that are received in analog format and converted to digital locally. The digital "pass through" channels are generally OK. You can tell what format TWC receives the feed by comparing the delay between the analog and digital version of the channel. If the audio leads on the analog version, the source is analog, and vice versa.

Here's a solution. Set the 8300 output to 16:9 Stretch and the Sony to Normal. This gives you a 4:3 without the gray sidebars, however it squashes the guide screens while using a 4:3 channel.

Thank you for the advice. Sounds like you might have a Sony too ... do you let your DVR output anything other than 1080i? I just received my TV this week and have put no effort into self-calibrating beyond the factory settings. Just trying to get a feel for the settings most use in the Raleigh area.

I tried your solution and it appears that when I do this, I lose a bit of the picture somewhere along the line. I put on FX and measured from the edge of the logo to the end of the picture in both settings. When stretched with the Sony on Normal, the distance from the logo to the right side edge of the picture is less. It was very late last night when I tried this so I didn't visually inspect the picture to see if I was actually losing any of it or if the aspect ratio was just a bit more compressed. I'll try that tonight.

posg

12-15-06, 07:55 PM

Thank you for the advice. Sounds like you might have a Sony too ... do you let your DVR output anything other than 1080i? I just received my TV this week and have put no effort into self-calibrating beyond the factory settings. Just trying to get a feel for the settings most use in the Raleigh area.

I tried your solution and it appears that when I do this, I lose a bit of the picture somewhere along the line. I put on FX and measured from the edge of the logo to the end of the picture in both settings. When stretched with the Sony on Normal, the distance from the logo to the right side edge of the picture is less. It was very late last night when I tried this so I didn't visually inspect the picture to see if I was actually losing any of it or if the aspect ratio was just a bit more compressed. I'll try that tonight.

Yes, I own a Sony.

Definitely activate ALL resolution outputs on the 8300. The scaler in your Sony is much better than the one in the 8300. It is particularly noticeable on SD channels.

As far as the width issue, the output of the box is a tad wider than 4:3. I prefer the slightly wider width with the gray side bars than the narrower 4:3, but I never stretch the picture to fill the screen.

Enjoy.

jamieh1

12-15-06, 09:18 PM

FROM 11P-1:30 you can force a new update by using the 02468 method, reset box, once welcome screen comes on hit 02468 on remote.
this will enable ota tuners if you dont have it yet, also improve stability and HDMI issues and networking (photos and music).

this is a do at your own risk release as its beta.

www.dbstalk.com
for more info

drewwho

12-16-06, 09:51 AM

MacFly

12-16-06, 09:35 PM

I have two Westinghouse LTV-27w6 HD LCD TV's. I have TWC in Raleigh and when I do a channel scan the only QAM local channels I'm finding are WUNC on 4.1 - 4.5 and WRAL on 5.1 - 5.5. It seems that each TV detects channels that the other will not. Where are WTVD 11, WNCN 17, WRAZ 50, and CW 22 digital channels? Should I see 11.1 at 11.1 or would it be in the 100's?

Thanks for any help.

scsiraid

12-17-06, 10:46 AM

What is a good local place to pick up a channel master 4228 antenna? I got mine from Consumer Direct on Wake Forest road, but it looks like they are gone (or at least their domain name expired).

Thanks,

Drew

Not local... but...
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC4228

You could send a note to WRAL-TVEngineeringInfo@wral.com. They provide Channel Master antennas and should be able to point you to a local source. Also if you give them your location, they could validate the 4228 as a good choice.

Wilson-Flyer

12-17-06, 09:59 PM

Really weird.

Now my Panasonic Plasma finds WRAL HD on 5.2 like it's suppose to (instead of 85.2) but my Mits DLP (62525) still has it somewhere that I apparently can't even find it on. OTA antenna finds and maps it perfectly but the cable side's still screwey on the Mits.

Anybody have a clue where WRAL HD might be on the Mits tuner?

bigcementpond

12-19-06, 01:40 AM

Did anyone know about the Time Warner - Cary maintenance outage for 1am-5am this morning? CS said it is a planned outage. I figured I'd see it on the board here if that were the case. An unlimited cell phone data plan can be a good thing!

-Back on at 2am.

DonB2

12-19-06, 09:51 AM

CCsoftball7

12-19-06, 10:05 AM

I am curious how many people on this board have successfully combined two antennas to receive WUNC PBS 4.1 and also all the other channels coming from the Garner farm simultaneously?

This does not include using and A/B switch or a rotator.

-DonB2

Don,

I haven't combined antennas; however, I do have one antenna picking up all stations. I'm using a "Rabbit Ear" type of antenna.

Jeff

DonB2

12-19-06, 10:31 AM

CCsoftball7

12-19-06, 10:33 AM

Jeff, You are also getting PBS on 4.1 with no issues?

Are you located centrally to Garner and Chapel Hill?

-DonB2

I am located in Cary. Near I-40 and Harrison.

Jeff

phishbfm

12-19-06, 10:50 AM

Supposedly, TWC will be adding ESPN2-HD this week!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=771239

halljb

12-19-06, 10:58 AM

When I had my Yagi located in the attic I recieved everything except PBS. I tried joining two antennas with a combiner (not a jointenna) and it picked up PBS, but I lost ABC due to the multipath. Moving the Yagi to the roof allowed me to pick up everything just fine. PBS comes in on the backside of the single yagi just fine now.

I'm in Apex BTW.

hbehrman

12-19-06, 11:28 AM

I am curious how many people on this board have successfully combined two antennas to receive WUNC PBS 4.1 and also all the other channels coming from the Garner farm simultaneously?

This does not include using and A/B switch or a rotator.

-DonB2

I think you already have me down DonB2.

In an attic location just west of Lake Wheeler:

CM4228 with a RS variable attenuator set to around 66% pointed to Clayton stacked and combined (reversed splitter) with a CM 3018 with a CM 7777 pre-amp pointed to Chapel Hill. All connections are Quad shielded RG-6 run to the TWC distribution box which as a 3 way splitter in it and then of course the runs to the house whcih I did not do and I believe RG-59 (?).

Oh I forgot to mention tuners:

shortest cable run (around 65ft): Internal Westinghouse W3213 ATSC tuner
mid- cable_run (around 120 ft): Samsung T151
longest cable run (around 175 ft): Samsung T451

toadfannc

12-19-06, 01:00 PM

Supposedly, TWC will be adding ESPN2-HD this week!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=771239

Sorry, bro. According to George Douglas (TWC Raleigh VP of Marketing):

"I have gotten feedback from our corporate office that we do not yet have the go ahead to launch ESPN2-HD anywhere yet. Regardless of what the other websites say, they will not be able to launch if we do not have a contract."

Daryl L

12-19-06, 02:18 PM

Sorry, bro. According to George Douglas (TWC Raleigh VP of Marketing):

"I have gotten feedback from our corporate office that we do not yet have the go ahead to launch ESPN2-HD anywhere yet. Regardless of what the other websites say, they will not be able to launch if we do not have a contract."
These are the things that happen when the left hand doesn't know the right hand is reaching around scratching the right buttock. Who knows which hand is in the know. His feedback could be pre-agreement or maybe the others webmasters jump the gun (known to happen). :)

cbordman

12-19-06, 04:05 PM

"I haven't combined antennas; however, I do have one antenna picking up all stations. I'm using a "Rabbit Ear" type of antenna."

Jeff, You are also getting PBS on 4.1 with no issues?

Are you located centrally to Garner and Chapel Hill?

-DonB2

Me too.. rabbit ear in the attic is picking up the 4.x channels, and all the garner channels with no adjustments needed. Located near fuquay.

DonB2

12-19-06, 05:15 PM

Cbordaman,

Interesting you are not far from my location, maybe I need to throw away my 4228 antenna and get some rabbit ears.

If I attempt to use my 4228 to get the Garner channels and also 4.1 I will get the Garner ones fine but 4.1 is iffy at about 63 percent power and than occasiona drops to 50 where it either locks up or just drops out.

I tried my new Samsung DTB-H260F which is suppose to handle multipath better but say no improvement.

I am going to try rotating the 4228 slightly and see if I can improve 4.1 without causing grief with 11.1, 22.1, or 17.1

By the way are either of you capturing PAX on 47.1? I am occasionaly with only about 28 percent on signal strength. I have never picked up any other station under about 60 percent strength. I can only guess it is because PAX is SD and not HD.

-DonB2

cbordman

12-19-06, 09:14 PM

Cbordaman,

I am going to try rotating the 4228 slightly and see if I can improve 4.1 without causing grief with 11.1, 22.1, or 17.1

By the way are either of you capturing PAX on 47.1? I am occasionaly with only about 28 percent on signal strength. I have never picked up any other station under about 60 percent strength. I can only guess it is because PAX is SD and not HD.

-DonB2

no PAX for me. It says 19 on the signal strength.

I've got the rabbit ears up in the attic. It gets the best reception pushed right up against one of the rafters. It even picked up 22.1 and 28.1 back before they increased the strength.

Off of Old Powell/Spence farm if that helps any,.

longtimewolf

12-19-06, 10:05 PM

TWC question.

I have just tried to use HDMI out of the TWC box instead of component.

I swear i think the component looks better than the HDMI...does this make any sense?

IamtheWolf

12-20-06, 06:07 AM

TWC question.

I have just tried to use HDMI out of the TWC box instead of component.

I swear i think the component looks better than the HDMI...does this make any sense?

No, but about the same is more like it. Does your TV have different "Inputs, or Sources" for selection of Color, Brilliance, Picture, etc? If so, those should be about the same (including aspect ratio, grey bars) for a good comparison.

hbehrman

12-20-06, 08:33 AM

no PAX for me. It says 19 on the signal strength.

I've got the rabbit ears up in the attic. It gets the best reception pushed right up against one of the rafters. It even picked up 22.1 and 28.1 back before they increased the strength.

Off of Old Powell/Spence farm if that helps any,.

How about 30.1, 40.1 and 40.2 ? I am just slightly north of Fuquay around 1010.

cbordman

12-20-06, 08:46 AM

How about 30.1, 40.1 and 40.2 ? I am just slightly north of Fuquay around 1010.

I don't think I've ever seen those either. Unless they are the Spanish channels.. I get some spanish channels in the 40-50 range, but I have them hidden.

Scooper

12-20-06, 09:40 AM

30 is a Shop At Home channel out in Wilson, and 40 is the spanish station out of Fayetteville (used to be WKFT).

DonB2

12-20-06, 12:36 PM

I rotated my 4228 some more and saw no improvement of 4.1 but 47.1 jumped up to 90 percent signal strength while 28 dropped considerably.

I than rotated it back the other way and got 47.1 at around 70 percent and 28.1 was back to 80's. Still no consistant 4.1 although it would occasionaly come in for a second or so.

All the above was with using my built in Pioneer ATSC tuner. I then tried my new SAMSUNG DTB-H260F and found that it was pulling in all above as well as 4.1 !!!

I now will have to give the stations the time test - I need to watch a station for at least ten minutes to ensure no multipath issues.

I also need to try another antenna. I believe POSG told me that the 4228 is directional and it appears I would be better off with a less directional one.

-DonB2

rollcage

12-21-06, 09:03 AM

Unfortunately, Audio Advice currently does not have the equipment to do pattern generation over HDMI. However, Gary, their calibrator, believes they will purchase this equipment sooner than later. I haven't contacted Tweeter.

There are 3 traveling calibrators coming through our area in the next few months:
Chad Billheimer: www.HDTVbyChadB.com (returning second week of Feb)
Jeff Meier: www.accucal.org (returning in May)
Eliab Alvarez de la Campa: www.avical.com (returning 1/30-2/12)

All are well respected on these forums, but all are also fairly expensive compared to the price Audio Advice gave me. I think I might go with Chad ... he charges a flat price (no travel costs!) and calibrates all used inputs/scanrates.

I've signed up to be calibrated on Chad Billheimer's tour. I was told by the person scheduling his appts, Reenie, that if others in the area sign up for this trip, a referral discount goes in effect. According to Chad's website, it appears that we would all save $50 (see http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/specials.htm). If you are interested, write Reenie at chadbcalibrations@yahoo.com and let her that you are signing up by reference of Chris Lombardo and would like to be included in the discount offer. Please PM me if you sign up.

Jack the cat

12-22-06, 09:06 AM

TWC question.

I have just tried to use HDMI out of the TWC box instead of component.

I swear i think the component looks better than the HDMI...does this make any sense?

Coming from my sony DVD to my HDTV the picture was awful. Looks great with component video. Have not yet called Sony to determine why. Through other threads, HDMI quality seems to be a common problem.

pyedog

12-22-06, 01:50 PM

I am curious how many people on this board have successfully combined two antennas to receive WUNC PBS 4.1 and also all the other channels coming from the Garner farm simultaneously?

I have a 4228 in an attic pointed toward Garner, and a strange looking UHF stage taken off of a 30+ year old VHF/UHF antenna (it is sitting on a box in my attic) pointed towards Greensboro. The two feed into a reversed splitter, then into a CM 7777 amp followed by a 110' coax run down to a Sony DVR.

I'm in North Raleigh near the intersection of Hwy 98 and Hwy 50, and I get the following digital channels (all lock at or above 80%): 2, 4, 5, 11, 17, 22, 28, 45, 48, 50, 61
I also get 8 at night, but it tends to break up during the day or when it is raining.

47 and 30 break up too often to watch, but i'm toying with the idea of getting a third antenna and a jointenna to try to get 47.

The tuner also gets the info for Channel 7, but it doesn't show a picture.

toadfannc

12-24-06, 07:38 AM

... excerpts from an email from George Douglas (VP of Mktg, TWC Raleigh)--

"... the Raleigh division will be going to switched digital in the 2nd quarter of 2007. In the meantime, I expect to launch MTV-HD in early January and, hopefully, A&E by the end of the month. I received word from corporate that ESPN2-HD is still not ready and it may be a couple of months. Hopefully sooner. I cannot explain why several TWC divisions have announced they are carrying ESPN2-HD."

AFH

12-24-06, 10:21 AM

Hey folks. I'll be moving to the Hope Valley area of Durham next week coming from Phoenix, AZ via Jax, FL. In Phoenix I was able to receive the HD locals using an indoor antenna in my apartment and here in Jax my parents rec the HD locals using an outdoor antenna. Looking at antennaweb.org I noticed that from my address in Durham, I'll be 32 miles from the antenna farm. Has anyone that post here and live in Durham have any success using an indoor antenna to pickup the HD locals? I'm thinking about trying a DB2 with a CM 7777 to see if that works but before I did that I wanted to hear from others. I'm going to be in a 2 story townhome this time around but I'm not going to use an outdoor antenna at this moment. Also, antennaweb didn't show anything about the local WB. Do you folks using an antenna not recieve the HD WB station?

Also, I do planning on getting Directv b/c I already have them, but they only offer 3 HD stations (no CBS which I record from the most) for Raliegh-Durham so I wanted to make sure that I get an antenna working so that I can connect it to my Directv HD Tivo and record away without depending on the limited MPEG 4 HD locals from Directv.

bdevils74

12-25-06, 03:27 PM

Has anyone heard any new updates of when WRAZ WRAL HD of Raleigh Durham will be available on Dish Network? I've tried calling the stations and dish network but I never got any answers, just the run around. Just wanted to see if anyone knew anything, because football playoffs are coming quickly. Thanks.

Bigchris

12-26-06, 12:23 AM

Did UNC move their antenna to Garner? I've got an old Yagi pointed at the Garner farm and couldn't "see" Ch 4 at all until suddenly today I'm getting all their multiplex feeds! Their old location is off the side of my antenna so either I'm witnessing a Christmas miracle or something's changed.

RSMoonwalks

12-26-06, 03:36 PM

Which co. is best for the HD end in this area......"Roxboro/Timbelake" ? Either Direct TV or Dish Network ?

RSMoonwalks

12-26-06, 03:39 PM

Might want to check to see if your antenna has turned today in this wind today........

chaprock

12-27-06, 01:19 AM

We recently purchased a smaller HDTV with an ATSC tuner. I planned on using an antenna for the HD, and basic cable for other channels (not giving TWC more $ unless I have to). I searched the available channels with just the basic cable plugged in (no other antenna). Almost all of the local HD signals came shining through. Is this a signal from TWC or is the cable itself picking up OTA signals? Anyone know?

Thanks!

Scooper

12-27-06, 06:04 AM

More than likely, your new TV has a QAM tuner built in, which will allow you to tune in the unencrypted digital signals on TWC - which just happens to be the local broadcast stations (with the (possible) exception of the Sinclair run stations (22 and 28)). More than likely, you'l have to periodically set your set to rescan as TWC shuffles the lineup around, but you are not "stealing" anything either. TWC would like you to rent their HDTV tuners (to make available the rest of their services), that may be part of the reason you'll see the shuffling around.

cable free since 2000 - but I do read to keep up with what's happening locally.