Greetings All,
I have a Directv HR10-250 and a Channel Master 4228 OTA to pick up the local HD channels. I live in Cary and receive most channels very well, expect for NBC (17.1). I don't understand why this channel doesn't come in that well since it is located in the same location as the other major networks antennas. Thoughts?

Also, I was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for an amplified for the CM 4228. Whenever it rains my reception becomes very flakey and was hoping an amplifier would solve this issue. Is there anything else I could do to increase the reception when it rains. Thanks.

-gigascott

"Yes, i think it is lousy they don't broadcast those ED or NC channels as well. They switched 4-3 (PBS Kids) to 24-7 broadcast last year. Why they did that when those viewers are usually in bed by 8pm (I have 3 of them) I dont's know. It would have been smarter to choose either NC or ED to go to 24-7 broadcast. Is bandwidth the reason for this restriction based upon the HD channel? "

Is bandwidth the reason for this restriction based upon the HD channel? - When they switch on the HD channel between 8pm and 11pm for OTA they switch the others off due to bandwidth issues.

I agree about the children programming. It appears now that Sunday morning on the normal channel is devoted to Childrens shows. I call Normal the channel that has same broadcasting as Analog OTA.

I sware I use to watch This Old House on Sunday Mornings years ago.

Bottom line I went to their web site and had a heck of a time even finding This Old House there. Have they done away with it and are only broadcasting old shows?

You would think when you use their seach engine in the What is on section you would get a hit for This Old House . But the only way I could find any showings of This Old House were by selecting the ED pull down and searching there where i came up with March 1st.

-DonB2

Greetings All,
I have a Directv HR10-250 and a Channel Master 4228 OTA to pick up the local HD channels. I live in Cary and receive most channels very well, expect for NBC (17.1). I don't understand why this channel doesn't come in that well since it is located in the same location as the other major networks antennas. Thoughts?

Also, I was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for an amplified for the CM 4228. Whenever it rains my reception becomes very flakey and was hoping an amplifier would solve this issue. Is there anything else I could do to increase the reception when it rains. Thanks.

-gigascott

1) Do you have it oriented correctly based upon antennaweb.org?
2) Have you tried other positions from where it is currently based upon this orientation or adjusted the angle slightly to bring in NBC a bit stronger? Compare signal strengths.
3) Other things to consider: tuner, type of cable (quad shielded or not),length of cable runs, splitter/joiners in the line.

I would try a direct link to one TV and see if the picture improves, if it doesn't then I believe that is due to antenna orientation. If it does improve then it may be your line (too many splitters/joiners or unshielded/too much cable) and a preamp or distribution amp may help. (Somebody else chime in please)

In my attic I use a CM 7777 preamp on my CM3018 pointed to WUNC, but nothing on my CM 4228 pointed to all the others in Clayton. A RS varibale attenuator set at 66-70% is on the 4288 to lower WRAL power so it won't drop out Only issue is WUNC during very high winds you see a little drop in picture quality if you are looking for it. Of course I am almost on top of a bluff with little trees directly around the house.

hbehrman,

1) Do you have it oriented correctly?.

Mostly. I have the 4228 in a nook above my fireplace behind a mirror to keep it out of sight. Since the antenna is so wide, I can't totally position it to the ideal direction. I am thinking about cutting it in half to convert it to a 4-bay antenna so that I can point it more in the right direction. Bad idea? I should just put the antenna in my attic to that I can give it more elevation and be able to point it in the right direction. Will putting it in the attic help the reception during a rain shower? It just might be a pain running the coax cable though.

2) Have you tried other positions from where it is currently based upon this orientation or adjusted the angle slightly to bring in NBC a bit stronger? Compare signal strengths.

Yes, I have played with the positions as much as I can due to tight space. I am getting a solid 90-92% on 5.1 and 11.1 but not the 17.1 channel. I should be doing pretty good position wise since the other channels are coming in so strongly, no?

3) Other things to consider: tuner, type of cable (quad shielded or not),length of cable runs, splitter/joiners in the line.

I would try a direct link to one TV and see if the picture improves, if it doesn't then I believe that is due to antenna orientation. If it does improve then it may be your line (too many splitters/joiners or unshielded/too much cable) and a preamp or distribution amp may help. (Somebody else chime in please)

I have played with plugging the antenna directly into the HR10-250 and don't get much improvement. Regardless, is a quad shielded cable preferred?

In my attic I use a CM 7777 preamp on my CM3018 pointed to WUNC, but nothing on my CM 4228 pointed to all the others in Clayton. A RS varibale attenuator set at 66-70% is on the 4288 to lower WRAL power so it won't drop out Only issue is WUNC during very high winds you see a little drop in picture quality if you are looking for it. Of course I am almost on top of a bluff with little trees directly around the house.

What is a RS variable attenuator? Why would you want to lower the power from the WRAL station? Does the WRAL cause other channels to drop out? Thanks for your help.

-gigascott

gigascott ,

"I am thinking about cutting it in half to convert it to a 4-bay"

I would not recommend your doing that. 4228 costs more up front and costs more to ship, I can;t see chopping it up.

17.1 channel,

I agree they are all coming from same location and I have also had issues with just about everyone of them at one time or another . The biggest culprits being 11.1 and 17.1 and than 50.1 which you would thing is joined at the hip with 5.1.


BTW - I have had lots less issues since getting the Samsung DTB-H260F which handles multipath/Ghosting well.

I bet if we could see ghosts on ATSC channels we would not wonder why this or that channel is not coming in. But we can't so we are guessing.

If your antenna is behind a mirror you may find that the metal coating on the backside of your mirror is causing signal loss.


My 4228 and booster are in attic. I got real cheap and ran coax out attic window and than down under "crawlspace" and than up into livving room. The hardest thing was getting it up into the living room because I just didn't want to drill a hole in the hard wood floor so when up thru wall instead.

I did sneak my Sirius cable antenna thu one of the fllor vents near the audio equipment and you may be able to do that at least temporarily.

Also I used white Coax on the side of the house and it is not too noticable.


Also if you kind find cable coax runs up in your attic you may be able to steal one of those to get ATSC signal to your ATSC tuner.

DonB2

I'm looking for recommendations for an OTA antenna in the Hillsborough/Efland area. I have checked out the antennaweb website and have an idea on what to get, but i was hoping someone in the area would have some firsthand experience with what works.

My D* installer installed a HDTVo Terk antenna, it works ok, but I'm assuming as soon as I split it to more than one tv, my signal quality will go down the drain.

My 4228 and booster are in attic.

DonB2

What booster are you using? Thanks for your help.

-gigascott

ok i will tell you the best antenna money can buy for poor folks like me..

go to radio shack and ask for part #15-2160

the antenna is small but my god its a deep fringe antenna with a range of 75 miles or more and its UHF only and its exactly what you need.

the price on the antenna is $24.99 but its highly regarded as the best antenna money can buy for people on a budget and space constraints.

i got 3 of them hooked up on five foot mast and let me say i got 98% signal on all 23 stations i get..

one is pointed towards fayetvfille one towards raleigh one towards rockymount.

i get all the digital stations and more duplicate stations too.

if all you want is wral.. one radioshack antenna is all you need.

whines 83 where are you located? Do you mind listing the Digital channels you get?

i live in princeton NC.

the channels i get are

5.1
7.1
11.
17.
22.1
25.1
28.1
30.1
38.1
42.1
50.1

sub stations i didnt bother to mention as i am not at home as of now..

"What booster are you using? Thanks for your help."

I believe it is called a CN 7777 and I do not plan on cutting it in half :cool:

-DoNb2

ok i will tell you the best antenna money can buy for poor folks like me..

go to radio shack and ask for part #15-2160

t
if all you want is wral.. one radioshack antenna is all you need.

Tried it - the CM3021 / 4221 worked better for me.

That's ok - it's good to know you got good results from it.

I'll second that; well done so far, surprisingly so.

And it was kind of fun knowing it was coming because of this thread!

Let's hope we keep getting more and more local sports in HD.

According to TWCs tutorial, if you are watching a show and start recaording anytime within the first hour, the complete show is supposed to be recorded. I think it used to work that way, but the last few times we've tried it, it just records from the current time.

My wife talked to TWC but they were no help. The help desk filled out a trouble report but we haven't heard back from anyone. Does anyone else have this problem or ever had it work?

I can hear the disk drive in the 8300HD from 12 feet away. Is that normal or is it on its last legs and getting ready to crash sooner than later?

Thanks.

According to TWCs tutorial, if you are watching a show and start recaording anytime within the first hour, the complete show is supposed to be recorded. I think it used to work that way, but the last few times we've tried it, it just records from the current time.

My wife talked to TWC but they were no help. The help desk filled out a trouble report but we haven't heard back from anyone. Does anyone else have this problem or ever had it work?

It will only record the complete show if the beginning of the show is in the buffer. If you change channel at any point the buffer is reset. If you haven't been tuned to the show from the beginning it will only record the portion you have been tuned in for.

Well, if all goes well, I'll be closing / moving into a Holly Springs home at the end of the month...feels great to be back in NC! :)

So, any "word" on ESPN2HD ever coming to TWC? I think I can nab all the locals in Holly Spring via OTA, so I'm leaning towards Dish HD thanks to the free HD DVR offer for new customers, but I'd still rather skip the installation hassle and just get cable. Argh, decisions.

I live at the far northern edge of Wake county, within 1/4 mile of the intersection of Wake, Franklin and Granville counties. Yesterday I installed the CM4308 that WRAL provided via their HD antenna give away program. The antenna is located in my attic adjacent to an exterior wall and is pointing 187 degrees SSW. I also added the CM7775 UHF pre-amp. The antenna feeds a Mitsubishi WD 57732. Here is the the list of digital channels that I am able to receive.

HD Menu 01 (http://i19.tinypic.com/2enq1kg.jpg)
HD Menu 02 (http://i15.tinypic.com/4c127tl.jpg)

NBCHD Italian Job?

According to the program guide on my 8300HD, Italian Job on 217 on TWC in Cary was showing that it would be HD but it was SD. Any ideas if it was originally supposed to be in HD?

Also, during the Hurricanes game today, there seems to be a dark bar on the left side of the image, around the HD/SD area. I had noticed that during the Olympic games, but I thought I was seeing things, but it was there again. I don't remember seeing it when FSN-HD is broadcasting.

Any ideas or anyone else noticed this issue?

Francisco

I saw an ad for This Old House on PBS. It said it would be on the education subchannel at 8pm Thursday night.
-DonB2

FWIW, I recorded the 1st episode of the new season ("Austin Green Remodel") at 8:30 *AM* on UNC-ED last Thurs, and the next one is scheduled for the same time slot next week. Maybe your provider just does not have accurate guide data?

Drew

drewwho,
<...>
In regards to your question I guess just give it a try.

Some people have luck doing that and people like me have had failure. I even had failure with the joiner.


I tried it, and I seem to have had good luck so far. The amp doesn't seem to cause problems, but I'm not sure if it is really needed. However, the weather has been pretty good since I did the re-install on Fri, and there are still no leaves on the trees. If the reception continues to be decent during a rainstorm in May or June, I'll be a happy camper :)

Drew

"If the reception continues to be decent during a rainstorm in May or June, I'll be a happy camper "

I think I could accurately calculate the amount of rain fall in inches from the loss of ATSC signal I experience during a heavy rainy/windy rainstorm.

If I get the "This is digital we are watching isn't it?" from the boss than that means at least an inch of rain.

I can tell digital just from the increased viewing experience and overall HD 16X9 quality. The better half tells digital by the amount of pixelation or signal loss. :mad:

I really don't think OTA ATSC tuner manufactures need to throw a large Text Box up on the screen telling me "Loss of Signal" as it is pretty much obvious to me and is typically preceeded by Pixelization, Frozen screen, or audio drop out." before the infamous message is emblazoned across the screen for all to read.

Hmm, that makes me wonder do people with Samsung DTB- H260F tuners see that message when they are on S video or Composite?

-DoNB2

"If the reception continues to be decent during a rainstorm in May or June, I'll be a happy camper "

I think I could accurately calculate the amount of rain fall in inches from the loss of ATSC signal I experience during a heavy rainy/windy rainstorm.

If I get the "This is digital we are watching isn't it?" from the boss than that means at least an inch of rain.

I can tell digital just from the increased viewing experience and overall HD 16X9 quality. The better half tells digital by the amount of pixelation or signal loss. :mad:

I really don't think OTA ATSC tuner manufactures need to throw a large Text Box up on the screen telling me "Loss of Signal" as it is pretty much obvious to me and is typically preceeded by Pixelization, Frozen screen, or audio drop out." before the infamous message is emblazoned across the screen for all to read.

Hmm, that makes me wonder do people with Samsung DTB- H260F tuners see that message when they are on S video or Composite?

-DoNB2


The Tivo Series 3 seems to handle signal loss a bit more gracefully than my Sony tv tuner. When the TV loses the signal, it is usually a 3-5 second blank screen, with the words "No signal", then the picture comes back. The Tivo seems to just freeze the current picture, and it only last about 1 or 2 seconds.

"it is usually a 3-5 second blank screen, with the words "No signal""

I have really grown to dislike that message.

I mean isn't it pretty obvious ? Why do I need a message to tell me what I already know.

-DonB2

"it is usually a 3-5 second blank screen, with the words "No signal""

I have really grown to dislike that message.

I mean isn't it pretty obvious ? Why do I need a message to tell me what I already know.

-DonB2

I never saw it too often.. Maybe once a week. And now with the Tivo, i never see it.

"it is usually a 3-5 second blank screen, with the words "No signal""

I have really grown to dislike that message.

I mean isn't it pretty obvious ? Why do I need a message to tell me what I already know.


I could imagine a few other possible things that would cause your TV to go black:

1- the power dies on the TV
2- the panel (or tube) on the TV dies
3- the Component/HDMI/s-video cable comes loose from your TV
4- the STB (in this case a TiVo) locks up
5- the STB loses power
...

Should I keep going? The no signal message is telling you that there is no problem with your TV or your set top box. You just aren't getting a signal. Seems like a useful feature to me.

But if you have some kind of psychic connection to your TV and STB and already know all those things aren't happening, then I guess you don't really need the no signal message. ;)

BTW, #1 actually happened to me a month or so ago, so these things do actually happen.

Pkscout, I am talking about a STB associated with my Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC tuner.

BTW - My Plasma has a light in the corner to tell me if there is no power to the panel and it flashes if there is an interruption at the Media box.

I still can't see why I need a large obnoxious message displayed across the screen telling me I have weak signal. Are you saying that the message is to replace the snow that was typically seen on a NTSC screen?

So that basically I will not walk away and leave the TV on with no signal being displayed?

-DonB2

Pkscout, I am talking about a STB associated with my Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC tuner.

Sorry. You replied to a post someone made about a Tivo Series 3 and didn't mention that you were complaining about a totally different piece of hardware.

You may not want or need the message, but all my equipment is in a closed cabinet and the display is situated in a way I can't see the power light, so I see the value in the message where you don't. No big deal.

Pkscout,

You did raise a valid point as I for one don't like walking away from the Plasma with power on but blank screen.

I have not actually done this yet but have come close when I turn off the DVD player and Plasma is still on and screen is blank.

It would probably be obvious that it was still on at night without looking to see if the colored light in the lower left corner is red or green. But during the day it is not obvious.

-DonB2

Interesting Blog someone sent me about FED coupons towards ATSC STB's.

http://blogs.pcworld.com/digitalworld/archives/2007/03/coupons_to_help_1.html

-DonB2

TV Schedules for NCAA Tournament:

wral.com (http://www.wral.com/sports/story/1231460/)

timewarnercable.com (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nc/programming/wral_ncaa.html)

"FWIW, I recorded the 1st episode of the new season ("Austin Green Remodel") at 8:30 *AM* on UNC-ED last Thurs, and the next one is scheduled for the same time slot next week. Maybe your provider just does not have accurate guide data? "


Looks like I better get it set up tonight to record. ;)

It does not appear to be on normal analog PBS anymore.

-DoNB2

It will only record the complete show if the beginning of the show is in the buffer. If you change channel at any point the buffer is reset. If you haven't been tuned to the show from the beginning it will only record the portion you have been tuned in for.
Recording an entire program by starting the recording in the middle (even with entire program in buffer) has been sporadic for me. Sometimes it does it fine, other times it fails. I have not been able to determine why.

93SHOcar ,

What kind of Show Car do you have?

DonB2

"FWIW, I recorded the 1st episode of the new season ("Austin Green Remodel") at 8:30 *AM* on UNC-ED last Thurs, and the next one is scheduled for the same time slot next week. Maybe your provider just does not have accurate guide data? "


Looks like I better get it set up tonight to record. ;)

It does not appear to be on normal analog PBS anymore.



Hmmm. That seems wrong to me. WUNC-ED appears to be the "primary" channel for WUNC, so I don't understand how TWC can remove it from the basic tier and require subscription to the digital service just to get it. But then the WUNC channel stuff seems very confusing now. They have three or four different channels, and I can't tell for sure which one would be considered the primary channel. The TWC site has channel 9 listed as UNC PBS, but if I do a search for This Old House in the program guide, the only WUNC channel that comes up is digital channel 203.

Maybe I'll have to figure out how to put up a second antenna so I can get WUNC OTA. Otherwise I don't know that I will drop the kind of cash required to subscribe to the digital tier just to get This Old House.

93SHOcar ,

What kind of Show Car do you have?

DonB2

Taurus SHO?

For several weeks, channels 222/LFLHD/CW, and 228/RDCHD/myTV have shown as active on the program guide, but I have never seen anything but grey screen on either of them. I wrote TWC a couple of days ago - they acknowledged my query and promised a response within 1 day - but nothing from them since then.

I'm in Southern Pines, getting cable through TWC Fayetteville. There have been a couple of threads with this problem, or a similar problem in the Raleigh area, but I think it has been resolved there. I've rebooted the SA9300 DVR a couple of times, with no improvement. Also, I have subscribed to Digital Service, and the HD Suite for a couple of years, since we moved here.


Is anyone else experiencing this problem, or does anyone see normal program material actually displaying via the Fayetteville connection?

Ah, the power of this forum. Just minutes after my thread entry, the two channels magically appear for the first time. Or is it just coincidence?

Now if they could just add some new channels with programming I will actually watch, like the National Geographic HD channel, for example.

WRAL 5.3 and 5.4 are now on.

WRAL HD ota is off and is in SD mode for the NCAA games.

I cant believe CBS and NCAA allow local stations to show all the games like WRAL is doing.
I figured they want all that money that Directv is charging for the Mega March Maddness package.

Im glad WRAL is showing them free.

Any idea if I can receive all the locals OTA HD in Holly Springs (right off 55, no large trees around).

I entered my address into antennaweb.org and it showed a "Yellow," which I hope means that a small powered indoor antenna will suffice.

On another note (i.e. in case that doesn't work out) -- any news on when Dish HD is getting the rest of the locals? And also, has anyone taken advantage of the "Free HD DVR" offer from Dish HD? How'd that go, you like it?

Anyone got the QAM channel number for the extra HD feed for the NCAA (the game being shown on 254)?

" That seems wrong to me. WUNC-ED appears to be the "primary" channel for WUNC"

What UNC considers to be their Primary channel has been confusing me for awhile now.

Even though 4.1 is digital and not HD it always seems to carry the same shows as the Analog version for OTA.

But I got PO'd when UNC was advertising this old house in an evening time slot of 8pm on the -ED subchannel.

8pm -ED is off air for us OTA ATSC people from 8pm until 11pm which only leaves the Cable crowd availability to watch it during this time slot.

BTW - I am recording it during the Thursday morning time slot.

I also left a comment on the UPN web site about the conflict in the evening.

My question is "Is UPN doing away with This Old House?" if not they are sure making it difficult to watch it.

I like it much better in the weekend time slot but for some reason UPN is now showing childrens shows on Sunday Morning on 4.1 and 4.kids.

-Donb2

I entered my address into antennaweb.org and it showed a "Yellow," which I hope means that a small powered indoor antenna will suffice.

The antennaweb.org site has a nice little chart of what the colors mean. Just click on one of the colors and it will pop up.

Hmmm. That seems wrong to me. WUNC-ED appears to be the "primary" channel for WUNC, so I don't understand how TWC can remove it from the basic tier and require subscription to the digital service just to get it. But then the WUNC channel stuff seems very confusing now. They have three or four different channels, and I can't tell for sure which one would be considered the primary channel. The TWC site has channel 9 listed as UNC PBS, but if I do a search for This Old House in the program guide, the only WUNC channel that comes up is digital channel 203.

Maybe I'll have to figure out how to put up a second antenna so I can get WUNC OTA. Otherwise I don't know that I will drop the kind of cash required to subscribe to the digital tier just to get This Old House.

There has been a break between the last "new show" of the previous "season" in East Boston and the "first show" of the new "season" which will be in Austin Texas. Take a look at the following link for WUNC. http://www.unctv.org/whatson/index.php.

Fill out the form specifying:
Channel: UNC-TV
Program: This Old House
Type: All
Days: 30

It will return the listings for This Old House. The local station is starting the new "season" on April 1 although other stations around the country may have started earlier. The "primary" channel is WUNC, the others are additional and the digital channel UNC-ED airing of This Old House was in addition to the regular show on WUNC. And WUNC-TV is still on the basic TWC tier as Channel 4.

Hope that helps some...
Bob

SouthPaW1227 - antennaweb.org is geared towards OUTDOOR antennas. This is not to say that an indoor antenna won't work - it depends on several things.

You should be able to receive all the Raleigh OTA Digital stations easily.

Anyone got the QAM channel number for the extra HD feed for the NCAA (the game being shown on 254)?There are two extra channels, 5.4 and 5.5. Don't know which of those is the HD channel. Both are in the 85.x area. Try 85.5, 85.6, etc. My QAM remaps to OTA channel designations, so I don't have any way of telling the actual channel.

Although there was no programming on either channel at the time, my channel scan picked up 5.4 and 5.5. You should be able to pick them up by scanning now if you didn't earlier.

willobandb ,

I basically did all that a week ago and only came up with it on Thursday evening. Maybe they updated the site or something. Hah maybe when I left them a comment they updated the site.

Thanks,

-This old DonB2

SouthPaW1227 ,

Like I have said before I am down in a hole below Pine tree level in Holly Springs and I get all stations with some issues with 17 that I noticed lately with a 4228 in attic and CM 7777 booster.

BTW- Not sure about use of an indoor antenna but others have posted good results with an indoor in their attic.

I have used an indoor antenna but not on my latest Samsung tuner can't really say.

Just like RealEstate reception appears to be driven by Location, Location, Location.

Too bad we all could not benifit from antennas mounted on cell towers!

BTW- How close will you be to 540 when they complete it?

I was at the arberium in Raleigh a couple of weeks ago and better half picked up a local map that showed 540 going below Holly Springs over by Bass Lake which would put it darn close to me.

But the online NCDOT maps still show it up above Sunset Lake Rd where Sunset Lake meets up with 55.



-Donb2

^ Thanks -- guess I'll just cross my fingers & hope I can get the locals once I move in early next month. :)

What's the link to the proposed 540 extension so I can check my location against it?

93SHOcar ,

What kind of Show Car do you have?

DonB2
Hi, I had a 93 Ford Taurus SHO, 5 speed. Bought it new and had it for 11 yrs/150K. A very enjoyable car but definitely high maintenance. Now, I am driving a 2004 Acura TL 6sp.

Anyone got the QAM channel number for the extra HD feed for the NCAA (the game being shown on 254)?

It is 107 here in Cary.

Drew

It is 107 here in Cary.

Drew


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Found it on 107-8

SouthPaW1227,

Here it is and don't get confused as it is oriented South not North and don't ask me why.

http://www.ncdot.org/download/?pdf=www.ncdot.org~projects~i540~download~r2635ab1.pdf

-DonB2

93SHOcar ,

At first I thought you were into "HO" racing or something.

I had a '84 Ford Escort HO that I bought new after totaling my 77 Trans Am 400CuInch HO.

For some reason the Escort liked to eat rear tires making the snow banks come up fast back in upstate NY.

ATSC-HD is a lot safer as long as I stay off the roof and leave things alone during lightning storms :D

-DonB2

Are all the CBS affiliates not broadcasting in HD in order to show four feeds at once? This sucks! We want to watch games in HD! How about just showing one alternate game and leave HD alone! That's why we bought the stinking HD sets! ARGH!

Opie,

If you are like me and you hate the multicasting, switch over to WNCT 9-1 and watch DUKE and CAROLINA later in HD!!! Who cares about Marquette or Central Conn???

I'm in North Raleigh, and don't get 9-1.

Opie: hope this answers your question about HD broadcasts.

From WRAL's website:
HD broadcasts will not be available over the air for the first- and second-round games. Showing four games at the same time is only possible when the digital spectrum allotted to WRAL is divided into smaller parts. That necessitates eliminating the HD over-the-air broadcast. HD broadcasts of the first- and second-rounds will be available to cable customers because of special fiber links between WRAL-TV and Time Warner Cable.

HD games will be available over the air for the remaining rounds.

I mentioned this question at the bottom of last page, but I think it got overlooked:

Anyone took Dish HD up on their Free HD DVR offer for new customers buying their HD package? If so, what are the stipulations and did it work out alright?

I am picking up channel 0 on my QAM now for WRAL. I hope the channel stays there and its not just some extra NCAA only thing.

From WRAL's website:
HD broadcasts will not be available over the air for the first- and second-round games. Showing four games at the same time is only possible when the digital spectrum allotted to WRAL is divided into smaller parts. That necessitates eliminating the HD over-the-air broadcast. HD broadcasts of the first- and second-rounds will be available to cable customers because of special fiber links between WRAL-TV and Time Warner Cable.

HD games will be available over the air for the remaining rounds.
Yeah, I saw that, but I have DirecTV. What I don't understand is that many local stations simulcast standard definition programming on their other channels [.1, .2, .3, etc.] every day, include WRAL and PBS. And they are still able to broadcast an HD signal for one channel at the same time. I don't know what the deal is, but dropping the HD signal is a step backwards and the wrong decision.

Yeah, I saw that, but I have DirecTV. What I don't understand is that many local stations simulcast standard definition programming on their other channels [.1, .2, .3, etc.] every day, include WRAL and PBS. And they are still able to broadcast an HD signal for one channel at the same time. I don't know what the deal is, but dropping the HD signal is a step backwards and the wrong decision.

The problem is that WRAL wants to show all the games, and there is just not enough bandwidth in a 19Mb/s ATSC channel for 3 *decent* SD signals and an HD signal. According to dvbtraffic (from the linux dvb-utils package), WRAL is currently running 4 subchannels, each with about 4.5Mb/s bandwidth. To make a decent 1080i HD signal, they'd need to allocate 12 or 13Mb/bandwidth to the HD feed. This would leave only 1.5 or 2Mb/s for each of the 3 other games in SD, making them almost unwatchable due to the constant motion.

I personally agree with you .. I'd prefer 1 HD game, and 1 SD game to 4 SD games, 3 of which I don't care about, but we don't run WRAL :)

Drew

The problem is that WRAL wants to show all the games, and there is just not enough bandwidth in a 19Mb/s ATSC channel for 3 *decent* SD signals and an HD signal. According to dvbtraffic (from the linux dvb-utils package), WRAL is currently running 4 subchannels, each with about 4.5Mb/s bandwidth. To make a decent 1080i HD signal, they'd need to allocate 12 or 13Mb/bandwidth to the HD feed. This would leave only 1.5 or 2Mb/s for each of the 3 other games in SD, making them almost unwatchable due to the constant motion.

I personally agree with you .. I'd prefer 1 HD game, and 1 SD game to 4 SD games, 3 of which I don't care about, but we don't run WRAL :)

Drew

I'm pretty sure they've used the Fox50 bandwidth at times to show events.. Maybe hockey games?

The problem is that WRAL wants to show all the games, and there is just not enough bandwidth in a 19Mb/s ATSC channel for 3 *decent* SD signals and an HD signal. According to dvbtraffic (from the linux dvb-utils package), WRAL is currently running 4 subchannels, each with about 4.5Mb/s bandwidth. To make a decent 1080i HD signal, they'd need to allocate 12 or 13Mb/bandwidth to the HD feed. This would leave only 1.5 or 2Mb/s for each of the 3 other games in SD, making them almost unwatchable due to the constant motion.

I personally agree with you .. I'd prefer 1 HD game, and 1 SD game to 4 SD games, 3 of which I don't care about, but we don't run WRAL :)

Drew

I'm with you. WRAL's decision sucks. The SD games look terrible on my 50" PDP.

I'm with you. WRAL's decision sucks. The SD games look terrible on my 50" PDP.
Amen. If you are watching the games OTA the quality is terrible even on a SD set. Couldn't they send multi HD feeds to TWC and keep OTA the way we ALL thought it would be when we bought our sets. Not only do the OTA viewers lose HD but we get YouTube quality as a substitute. :mad:

Drewho,

Thanks I got all the PBS Home shows recorded from Thursday morning.

I am glad the rain waited until today or I would have seen nothing but "No Signal"


-DoNB2

The fact that the four games WRAL were showing over the air weren't in HD is the reason I chose not to watch. I guess WRAL was more concerned with providing a HD feed to TWC thereby ignoring it's OTA folks. They're website basically says that b/c WRAL provided that direct fiber link to TWC, WRAL wasn't able to show hd OTA games.

I sent an email to WRAL complaining about the fact they chose not to broadcast the tournament in HD. I suggest anyone who is displeased with their choice do the same.

IMHO it's more important for WRAL to transmit HD signals for games involving ACC teams — particularly those schools in its coverage area — than it is for them to be able to crow about providing all the games on cable. Especially when carrying everything means OTA transmissions are at lower quality levels.

IMHO it's more important for WRAL to transmit HD signals for games involving ACC teams — particularly those schools in its coverage area — than it is for them to be able to crow about providing all the games on cable. Especially when carrying everything means OTA transmissions are at lower quality levels.

I tell you no lie, the Duke game OTA looked worse than the Duke game on the WRAL station provided by Directv. I guess they were as you said above more concerned about being able to say that they were able to broadcast all of the games and providing HD to TWC customers but not to OTA customers. :rolleyes:

Gentlemen - you are all missing the "big picture" (pun intended) - There are LOTS of people in the triangle area who are not originally from here (raises hand) who want to follow how their alma mater's team is doing in the big show. (Kansas Alumnai). As it is, since I don't have an ATSC set, I'll be watching my Jayhawks via the Internet, but if I had a tuner - you can bet I'd be watching WRAL for it...

Gentlemen - you are all missing the "big picture" (pun intended) - There are LOTS of people in the triangle area who are not originally from here (raises hand) who want to follow how their alma mater's team is doing in the big show. (Kansas Alumnai). As it is, since I don't have an ATSC set, I'll be watching my Jayhawks via the Internet, but if I had a tuner - you can bet I'd be watching WRAL for it...
I am not from here either, but eliminating HD is *not* the solution. It is like we are regressing. The bandwidth is intended for digital high definition output, first and foremost.

I appreciate the opportunity to see more games, but CBS usually did a reasonably good job cutting to games near completion or during pivotal moments. One solution may be a HD pay-per-view offering for non-market games. This may not be the best alternative, but it beats this garbage.

March Maddness aside and in case anyone cares there is a Samsung DTB-H260F on a shelf in its box for sale at Best Buy near SouthPoint Mall.

They also just got in the LG digital DVD recorder although they have not yet put it on the shelf.

DonB2

I sent an email to WRAL complaining about the fact they chose not to broadcast the tournament in HD. I suggest anyone who is displeased with their choice do the same.

Hey guys. It's an argument you will not win. We've been going through this here for 4-5 years and we've beat it to death with WRAL. They want to be able to say they carry ALL the games and there simply isn't enough bandwidth to do an HD channel and still carry them all on 5.x. I think I remember them doing part of the games on 50.x one year but I'm sure CBS nipped that in the butt so that's probably why that hasn't happened again.

I think it's a crock too but even if they did do one game in HD OTA, somebody would complain because it wasnt the game they wanted to see in HD. Can't win. CBS is carrying the entire tournament in HD as I understand it.


What do you do if the Carolina game is on at the same time as the Duke ga... :D Oh. Wait. Never mind. (I'm an NC State alum and I'm still laughing!)

The good news is that NEXT weekend (historically), everything generally straightens itself out because they won't need all the sub-channels. The bad news is that you're going to live with it this first weekend unless you have cable. That's the bottom line. We've been here before. Nothing new. :(

You know what really burns me up?

We waited 6 months because WRAL said DTV didn't cover their entire OTA demagraphic so they used that excuse to hold out on an HD feed for 5 and 50. NOW they are providing a cable HD feed to Time Warner that's not available to their OTA customers.

Talk about having it both ways! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Amen. If you are watching the games OTA the quality is terrible even on a SD set. Couldn't they send multi HD feeds to TWC and keep OTA the way we ALL thought it would be when we bought our sets. Not only do the OTA viewers lose HD but we get YouTube quality as a substitute. :mad:
The OTA SD broadcast looks like it was converted to composite video at some point before transmission. I have seen some dot crawl artifacts.

They want to be able to say they carry ALL the games and there simply isn't enough bandwidth to do an HD channel and still carry them all on 5.x. So instead, they can't say they broadcast in HD. That's worse.

I think it's a crock too but even if they did do one game in HD OTA, somebody would complain because it wasnt the game they wanted to see in HD. Can't win. CBS is carrying the entire tournament in HD as I understand it.There is no reasonable expectation that they will broadcast every game in HD. There *is* an expectation that they will broadcast in HD, as *advertised*.

So instead, they can't say they broadcast in HD. That's worse.

There is no reasonable expectation that they will broadcast every game in HD. There *is* an expectation that they will broadcast in HD, as *advertised*.

Well, CBS is providing every game in HD, so technically every game is in HD. So if WRAL has the capacity to broadcast in HD then one would expect they would show what the network is providing to them to all of their viewers instead of a special subset. Instead they have provide TWC with the fiber link therefore ignoring OTA customers whom have the capability to view HD. I've only been here in NC for 2.5 months so the way WRAL does things concerning the NCAA Tournament is new to me. I just found it odd that they would leave OTA folks hanging the way they did.

If PBS can simulcast HD and standard def programming at the same time, why can't WRAL?

If PBS can simulcast HD and standard def programming at the same time, why can't WRAL?

WRAL simulcasts HD and DTV all the time.

In order to guarantee simulcast of ALL the games, they must have 4 channels available at all times. Adding the 4th channel is what takes away the necessary bandwidth required for sub-1 to carry HD.

Not defending them. Just explaining. Bandwidth is finite. It all depends on allocation.

PBS has HD and *four* other channels going at the same time. So why can't WRAL do HD and three?

Worse, is the presumption that people investing in digital televisions did so to watch more simultaneous standard def programming.

PBS has HD and *four* other channels going at the same time. So why can't WRAL do HD and three?

Worse, is the presumption that people investing in digital televisions did so to watch more simultaneous standard def programming.

Have you ever looked at the quality of PTV's SDTV feeds while the HD channel is broadcasting? BTW... it is a RARITY that all 4 are broadcasting concurrently anyway from what I've seen. You can keep 20 subs up. Bandwidth gets allocated when something's actually being broadcast.

Hey man, please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just as pi$$ed off about it as you are and probably have been for a lot longer.

www.callwralandcomplainandseehowfaritgetsyou.com

PBS has HD and *four* other channels going at the same time. So why can't WRAL do HD and three?

Worse, is the presumption that people investing in digital televisions did so to watch more simultaneous standard def programming.

Here's another BROAD MISCONCEPTION about digital TV. Nobody ever guaranteed you HDTV. What the FCC mandated was that all stations switch to digital UHF based broadcasts.

The market created the demand for HD based on promotions by stations like WRAL followed by a firm investment from the three majors with CBS leading the prime-time charge.

Nobody ever mandated anybody broadcast in HD. You get what they decide to provide you with. You vote with your remote. ;)

Wilson-Flyer - one small correction - "digital UHF based broadcasts" needs to read "digital based broadcasts". VHF will still be available (but LOW VHF (2-6) will not necessarily be desireable).

... The bandwidth is intended for digital high definition output, first and foremost.



This is absolutely an incorrect assumption created by the advertising mantra that would have you to believe it is part of the requirement. It's not. go research it. :)

Have you ever looked at the quality of PTV's SDTV feeds while the HD channel is broadcasting? Yes - it is no worse than the WRAL signal during the tournament.

Hey man, please don't shoot the messenger. Not at all. I just don't think there are any good arguments for what they are doing.

Wilson-Flyer - one small correction - "digital UHF based broadcasts" needs to read "digital based broadcasts". VHF will still be available (but LOW VHF (2-6) will not necessarily be desireable).

You're absolutely correct. Originally it was all about getting back the VHF spectum to reallocate it to other uses. I always neglect mentioning that it now re-includes the VFH bandwidth as part of the specification.

Not at all. I just don't think there are any good arguments for what they are doing.

Unless you're a Niagra graduate who relocated to RTP for job reasons. Always two sides to a coin. ;)

Unless you're a Niagra graduate who relocated to RTP for job reasons. Always two sides to a coin. ;)There are certainly far more HDTV owners in the region than Niagara alumni. People understand that TV stations must cater to the majority.

In all fairness, the OTA feeds look REALLY great here to be in SD on my 50" Sony A10. Especially 5.3, for some reason.

Last night 5.3 looked better than the others... not that we be relegated to evaluating standard definition picture during the prime HD viewing time of the year. 5.1 looked awful.

Sorry didnt post in time for last night but this is a 2 night shot at the beta download, 0x13e.
Friday and Saturday nights 11p-2:30am
by force upgrade, 02468 with the remote at reboot.

Visit www.dbstalk.com
for more info.

I am amazed there's so many people on here bitching about WRAL's ncaa coverage. I think its amazing how much basketball they bring us. On top of that, they provide 2 HD channels on TWC. These were available via QAM even if you didnt have a digital cable box.

I doubt you get that much coverage in many other markets. I understand you OTA'ers are upset about no HD, but... you get what you pay for.

we can have this discussion again in 363 days. Or if possible, sign up for TWC for a week and then cancel it next year.

I understand you OTA'ers are upset about no HD, but... you get what you pay for.Let's see, $2,000 for a HDTV, $300 for HD/TiVo, $100 for cables, $70/month D*, and *no* HD coverage of the first 48 games. So much for that.

I've been watching HD NCAA coverage for years in another market. It's like we are regressing here in Raleigh. It is just a bad decision on their part.

There are certainly far more HDTV owners in the region than Niagara alumni. People understand that TV stations must cater to the majority.

While my Niagra example was certainly and agreeably a stretch, your analogy directs us to believe the implication that you are generally saying that since HD owners are the majority, stations must cater to that market. If that's what you think, you're living in a dreamworld, my friend.

The RDU dema is probably one of the largest penetrations of HDTV per household in the country yet I'm confident we're not even CLOSE to a majority here.

The point is that WRAL is catering to the majority here much to the chagrin of those of us in the minority, whom, I remind you; they go out of their way to cater to 363 days out of the year.

Again; I don't like it either. I have 6 HDTVs in my home and 2 HD projectors and enough DTV HD PVR's and DTV HD STBs to furnish a small hotel. I think it sucks too. I think it's totally irrational to believe that we are the market WRAL should cater to, as much as I would like to think it so.

Advertising pays the bills for TV stations and you target the market that gives you the most eyeballs tuned to the commercials. Like it or not; money talks and BS walks.

If you're so heavily vested in DTV and HD, why didn't (don't) you just buy MMM and be done with it? Problem solved. ;)

your analogy directs us to believe the implication that you are generally saying that since HD owners are the majority, stations must cater to that market. If that's what you think, you're living in a dreamworld, my friend. My point is that there are far more people with HDTV monitors than [insert out-of-town school] alumni. People do not invest in HDTVs in order to get more SD broadcasting.

The point is that WRAL is catering to the majority here much to the chagrin of those of us in the minority...We are not comparing analog versus digital viewership here. We are comparing the ATSC viewership that want to watch HD versus the ATSC viewership that wants more SD substations. Clearly the former is in the majority, not the latter.

If you're so heavily vested in DTV and HD, why didn't (don't) you just buy MMM and be done with it? Problem solved. ;) Because CBS advertised that the games would be in HD, and my local station has the capability to broadcast HD. However, for some nonsensical reason, they have chosen not to.

I doubt you get that much coverage in many other markets. I understand you OTA'ers are upset about no HD, but... you get what you pay for.

we can have this discussion again in 363 days. Or if possible, sign up for TWC for a week and then cancel it next year.

Please afford me this opportunity to explain to you how TV markets are defined (briefly).

Market areas are defined by the FCC based on geography and demagraphics. Frequencies are granted EXCLUSIVITIES per network in those regions based on the geographic boundries. Broadcasters base their sales and pricing on market share and market demagraphics. This market (read: REGION) is what has made WRAL so successful; not TW Cable.

It's a downright slap in the face at themselves to provide TW Cable with something that they don't provide to the majority and responsibility of their market and then chastise DTV in public for not properly and fully covering their region and therefore withholding DTV rights for their (Capital Broadcasting) owned stations. How pretentious is that!

Broadcast stations' primarily responsibility is to cater to their OTA demagraphic; whether you want to believe it or not. If WRAL Wants to be a cable-access station only then they can give up their broadcast rights for CBS for the Raleigh region and shake a deal with TW. I'm sure there are station owners chomping at the bit to get their claws into this market. :mad:

Bottom line is this: Jim Goodman does what Jim Goodman and Capital Broadcasting want to do. They always have. to his credit; most of the time I agree with what he chooses to do (not that he cares) and I can't say that I completely disagree with the way he's chosen to handle the tournament. The only real complaint I've ever had was when they decided to play moral compass for the area for 2-3 years and withhold the Victoria's Secret Fashion show because they deemed it too risque for the area. I'll judge that for my family with my remote, thank you. Don't get me wrong, I didn't really care one way or the other about watching it (but I did on channel 9 out of Greenville), it was much more about the principle of the thing but alas; I digress...

My point is simply this; either provide all you're broadcasting (by definition, OTA) to the entire broadcast market or don't provide it at all, but making sweetheart deals with cable providers violates the very spirit of the agreement to serve the market they have been given/granted by the FCC. ;)

My point is that there are far more people with HDTV monitors than [insert out-of-town school] alumni.

I believe I'll take that bet. I'll take UNC and/or NC State (my alma mater) grads in the area v. HDTV ownership and I still bet I'd win. (EDIT: Sorry. I just noticed you prefaced it with out-of-town but my point below still stands. ENDEDIT)

Hey man... we'd all like to think we're important enough to dictate what our broadcasters broadcast but at the end of the day, WRAL has people they pay daily to study this thing to death. Jim Goodman doesn't make bad business decisions. Witness the unprecedented success of WRAL in the 29th market in the US.

If I'm selling local spots during the NCAA for WRAL, I'm selling eyes on the games. You can bet your proverbial a$$ that that was thought through carefully before the decision was made to carry all the SD feeds. I assure you that decision was not made lightly.

We can argue about this until next weekend; or next year for that matter. Bottom line is that it's the way it is and it will likely be the same way next year and for as long as CBS owns the rights.

If you don't like it; your option is to move, buy MMM or sign up for QAM from TW Cable. That's the bottom line, like it or not. ;)

Look at it this way, you could subscribe to Directv and order Mega March Madness to watch all the games and have both HD and SD feeds or get free games in SD from WRAL.
Atleast WRAL is giving folks with DT more games than the average veiwers can see without paying around $80.

Here in my market we only get the HD version of one game, atleast WRAL gives you 4 games.
Im fortunate that I can get WRAL and WNCT to have HD and SD.
Do like me and have 2 antennas on the mast, I get my market and RDU.

I believe I'll take that bet. I'll take UNC and/or NC State (my alma mater) grads in the area v. HDTV ownership and I still bet I'd win. (EDIT: Sorry. I just noticed you prefaced it with out-of-town but my point below still stands. ENDEDIT) WRAL would show the local game regardless if it was in HD or not.

If I'm selling local spots during the NCAA for WRAL, I'm selling eyes on the games. You can bet your proverbial a$$ that that was thought through carefully before the decision was made to carry all the SD feeds. I assure you that decision was not made lightly.I think that is precisely what we'd like to find out, because it is hard to argue that advertisers would get more exposure on the 3rd or 4th substation of a game broadcasting Niagara than on the HD broadcast of a highly penetrated HD marketplace.

And why not simulcast 1 HD game and 2 or 3 SD games? PBS broadcasts 1 HD channel and 4 SD subbroadcasts.

Turn on 5-1 right now. We are well into the second half of the Xavier/OSU game. It is the *only* game on. All over the country people are watching this game OTA in HD. Except in Raleigh. Inexplicable.

Look at it this way, you could subscribe to Directv and order Mega March Madness to watch all the games and have both HD and SD feeds or get free games in SD from WRAL. Im fortunate that I can get WRAL and WNCT to have HD and SD. Do like me and have 2 antennas on the mast, I get my market and RDU.The point is that CBS is advertising its games are in HD - but this doesn't mean Raleigh, unless you are a TW subscriber.

I didn't realize I would have to get two antennas, but you're right, it looks like WRAL would rather I start watching WNCT for HD broadcasting.

The decision by the management of WRAL baffles me... I was already frustrated by their stonewalling of DIshNetwork (my TV service provider). When I wrote them to complian they said I should put up an antenna to "enjoy" their HD broadcasts, yeah right. Well I did and now when I want to enjoy HD for my favorite programming that is promoted by CBS as HD I end up with POOOORRRR SD transmissions. I can't tell you how frustrated I was to watch last weeks games NCAA games in SD. What a huge let down.

Frankly at this point, I'm about to give up on HD for a couple more years when the programmers, content and distributors finally start getting their act together.

Opie,

Like I suggested a couple of pages ago and like Jamie above suggested, that is why I have an antenna pointed at Raleigh and one towards Washington/Greenville. A lot of times that setup gives you a choice. I believe you could get on like the Channel Master 3022 WRAL sent me, point towards Washington and grab WNCT then just install a switch.

Also, on the PBS broadcasts, 4-2 or 25-2 (HD channnels) are only broadcast from 8-11 pm and then, when they are on, the -4 adn -5 channels for each station are turned off.

Have you ever looked at the quality of PTV's SDTV feeds while the HD channel is broadcasting? BTW... it is a RARITY that all 4 are broadcasting concurrently anyway from what I've seen. You can keep 20 subs up. Bandwidth gets allocated when something's actually being broadcast...

Your Quality argument doesn't hold wate as the quality of the OTA games is as bad or worse than PBS's SD feeds when they are also providing a HD feed.

One other point to the WRAL No OTA HD decision is that the Government owns the OTA frequencies and makes it possible for them to exist. Then WRAL jumps in bed with TWC at the expense of every other possible WRAL viewer be it OTA or SAT.
I will be glad when someone else starts broadcasting local news in HD so I can wash my hands of Local programming from WRAL completely.

Look at it this way, you could subscribe to Directv and order Mega March Madness to watch all the games and have both HD and SD feeds or get free games in SD from WRAL.
Atleast WRAL is giving folks with DT more games than the average veiwers can see without paying around $80.

Here in my market we only get the HD version of one game, atleast WRAL gives you 4 games.
Im fortunate that I can get WRAL and WNCT to have HD and SD.
Do like me and have 2 antennas on the mast, I get my market and RDU.

Yet proof again that stupidity runs rampant (me, not you)...

I've been sitting here watching the games on WRAL for a day and a half all pi$$ed off like everybody else. Go figure I get WNCT just as good OTA as I get WRAL. Thanks for calling me out and giving me a kick in the pants.

HEY!!! The games really do look better in HD! :D :D :D LOL

One other point to the WRAL No OTA HD decision is that the Government owns the OTA frequencies and makes it possible for them to exist. Then WRAL jumps in bed with TWC at the expense of every other possible WRAL viewer be it OTA or SAT.
I will be glad when someone else starts broadcasting local news in HD so I can wash my hands of Local programming from WRAL completely.

I know most of the players in the market fairly well because I've had HD in my home since 1998 and beta'ed for WRAL and WRAZ(yes, really). Don't hold your breath waiting on the others to catch up. ;) :(

Your Quality argument doesn't hold wate as the quality of the OTA games is as bad or worse than PBS's SD feeds when they are also providing a HD feed.

Yes, but a PBS nature special or This Old House can look good with a lot fewer bits than a full-motion basketball game.

I know most of the players in the market fairly well because I've had HD in my home since 1998 and beta'ed for WRAL and WRAZ(yes, really). Don't hold your breath waiting on the others to catch up. ;) :(I'm still waiting for the networks to catch up. They don't have news in HD yet either.

One thing WRAL could do is the following...

5.1 WRAL-HD NCAA HD
5.2 WRAL-NC NCAA SD

50.2 WRAZ-SD NCAA SD
50.3 WRAZ-WX NCAA SD

or even add 5.3 as another SD

One thing WRAL could do is the following...

5.1 WRAL-HD NCAA HD
5.2 WRAL-NC NCAA SD

50.2 WRAZ-SD NCAA SD
50.3 WRAZ-WX NCAA SD

or even add 5.3 as another SD

CBS nipped that when they did it 2-3 years ago. At least that's my guess. They did it one year (RAZ-DT) and never did it again.

We talked about this a couple of pages ago.

Please afford me this opportunity to explain to you how TV markets are defined (briefly).

Market areas are defined by the FCC based on geography and demagraphics.

This is the most hilarious thing I have read in decades and show you are absolutely clueless.

The FCC grants broadcast license to serve a CITY....not a market. The city might be in a Nielsen DMA, but the license is for THE CITY....which is why it's called "The City of License".....not "The Market of License".

That's the reason the original VHFs are licensed the way the are - NTSC 4 to Chapel Hill, NTSC 5 to Raleigh and NTSC 11 to Durham.

The FCC does not even define a market. When they have needed to made decisions based upon signals in a market, they have always reverted to market definitions made by outside sources, such as Arbitron or Nielsen.

The FCC defining markets by demographics? ROFLMAO. That is priceless.

I needed a good laugh and this provided it.


I know most of the players in the market fairly well because I've had HD in my home since 1998 and beta'ed for WRAL and WRAZ(yes, really). Don't hold your breath waiting on the others to catch up. ;) :(

Yes, we see your knowledge of the players.

I guess you must be right - Channel 11/ABC/Cap Cities will never catch up and do HD News - as ABC doesn't believe in HD - as shown by local HD News at KABC/KGO/WLS/WABC and others - not to mention Good Morning America's leading the morning programmings in HD. :rolleyes:

Nice to see that after all these months, you still have nothing better to do with your life than to apparently be my nemesis on this forum. Good for you. Obviously, it brings you great pleasure. Always happy to oblidge. I just bet you have a ton of friends online, don't you? :)

Though my post regarding licensing may not be technically correct (thanks for setting us all straight), the gist of it was there in principle to point out the fact that networks (stations) are licensed for areas that are exclusive to them and their network (I can't open a station and and get broadcast rights from the FCC for CBS in Raleigh, can I?).

I believe my post conveyed this correctly in the context of its intended purpose. WRAL sure claims a lot more market area than Raleigh proper. Guess they just call squatter's rights to the surrounding counties and claim it as their own. Good information. I didn't know that. And I thought a city was an element of geographic measure! Man, this forum is a WEALTH of information. Now I know it's not! :)

Equally good information on GMA being in HD. Not sure what that has to do with my comments regarding local news in HD per the context of my quoted post and response but thanks for the information anyway. I anxiously await the imminent arrival of local news in HD from WTVD and WNCN. Please enlighten us with your obvious insider's insight as to when this is going to happen.

Have a great day! :D

Well - I went and ordered the Samsung DTB-H260F at Circuit City last night, and picked it up this afternoon.


Interim report - got it home, and configured it using the Green component to composite video trick. As expected - I get pretty good reception on all the digital stations in the area except the "rimshot" PBS and Ion stations. Since I have a rotor on my antenna, that's easily dealt with.

Currently watching the NASCAR race on 50.2 .

Now, does anybody have a "reasonable" cost method to go from the component outs to a VGA display ?

Edit - It appears that either getting a TV with composite inputs or getting an LCD display with DVI input (tried this with my wifes 2nd display) will be the cheapest. As we were watching UNC HD Nature last night, it appears that the HDMI output had more saturated colors than the composite out to our TV.

I spent the weekend with my inlaws in Newport News, and watched the tournament OTA there on WKTR. They had 1 HD channel, no SD subs. The video quality was stunning, and I don't feel I missed anything, as they did a great job of cutting back and forth between games at critical moments.

Drew

I spent the weekend with my inlaws in Newport News, and watched the tournament OTA there on WKTR. They had 1 HD channel, no SD subs. The video quality was stunning, and I don't feel I missed anything, as they did a great job of cutting back and forth between games at critical moments.

Drew
Luckily I was able to get a HD feed as well. It seems more than a few avoided WRAL's Tourney coverage. Not to beat a dead horse but I still don't get it since there are obviously far fewer TWC subs than OTA and SAT in and out of the TWC area. Now to beat the horse; WRAL sucks. :)

I would hardly say that WRAL sucks.

I guess this is the 1 weekend a year when the amount of HD programming exceeds what can be handled OTA. I wonder if the true sports fan would choose 1) being able to watch every game 2) having some games in HD and some games not available.

It would be nice to have this kind of SD coverage on college football saturdays.

And more on topic - is WLFL's (channel 22) digital channel "weak" for anyone else ? I'm having issues with it on my new Samsung DTB - H260F. All the other "farm" channels are fine.

OTA Antenna setup - a CM367x VHF antenna, and a CM 3021 with a Winegard Ap4700 preamp, combined in the attic (with appropriate bandpass filters), down to a Channel Plus MVDDS. One of the feeds here does my Sammy and NTSC TV.

I would hardly say that WRAL sucks.

I guess this is the 1 weekend a year when the amount of HD programming exceeds what can be handled OTA. I wonder if the true sports fan would choose 1) being able to watch every game 2) having some games in HD and some games not available.

It would be nice to have this kind of SD coverage on college football saturdays.
Well the sucks comment is in reference to them jumping in bed with TWC at the expense of every other way to receive WRAL. Every local community not served by TWC gets screwed.
And correct me if I am wrong but when Carolina or Duke for that matter were playing there was no other in market team that was on the other feeds. So instead of seeing the game that 99% of their viewers want to watch in HD we get more choices of crappy less than SD quality games.
WRAL has phenomenal quality when they decide to be a HD station. Maybe they will decide to expand their SD multicasting to give their viewers more choice and do away with HD completely. Would that suck?

i don't understand why so many posters think that WRAL is abusing the OTA viewers to cowtow to TWC.

i *HATE* subchannels! i was very dissapointed that WRAL showed 4 SD feeds (of pretty low quality) instead of 1 or 2 HD feeds. i *personally* would rather watch ANY game in HD than an SD game, with the possible exception of the local/ACC teams. but it seems obvious to me that WRAL felt i was in the minority. they felt more people would care about being able to watch whatever game they wanted than an HD game that WRAL picked to broadcast. it was simply a quantity/quality decision. and by all means, it is WRAL's decision to make.

because WRAL->TWC isn't limited by the bandwidth in a single OTA channel, they also provided 2 additional HD feeds over cable. this ADDED feature has nothing to do with playing favorites to TWC. WRAL didn't take anything away from OTA to enable this feature. its just a physical reality that there wasn't enough BW to provide the same feature OTA.

seems to me, WRAL is doing its best to provide their customers with what WRAL thinks they want. that just doesn't match up with what i, and some vocal others would choose. that doesn't mean WRAL sucks. i think they do a pretty good job in most cases. i just wish they wouldn't divide their bandwidth with a bunch of subchannels, for NCAA tourney broadcast, or for any other broadcast for that matter.

CBS nipped that when they did it 2-3 years ago. At least that's my guess. They did it one year (RAZ-DT) and never did it again.

We talked about this a couple of pages ago.

i don't think this is what happened. last year, or the year before, the 3 local ACC teams (State, UNC, and dook) were scheduled to play on the same night in the sweet 16. 2 of the teams were playing at almost exactly the same time, and the 3rd had an overlap with one of the games. i think duke was at like 7:15, unc was at 9 and state was at 9:30. rather than choose which of the games to show on the NTSC (analog ota) channel, WRAL went out of their way to get permission from FOX to broadcast CBS programming on the FOX NTSC channel. this was a very special circumstance, and WRAL bent over backwards for its customers. (and kudos to FOX for letting it happen). i fully expect if this ever happened again, WRAL would again attempt to get all local teams on the air. however, with the digital switchover in 2009, it may be a moot point. then WRAL can divide their 19mbit channel and show as many games as they want and not have to worry about NTSC analog viewers being left out in the cold.

Yet proof again that stupidity runs rampant (me, not you)...

I've been sitting here watching the games on WRAL for a day and a half all pi$$ed off like everybody else. Go figure I get WNCT just as good OTA as I get WRAL. Thanks for calling me out and giving me a kick in the pants.

HEY!!! The games really do look better in HD! :D :D :D LOL

what frequency (channel) is WNCT digital? i would like to try a little antenna aiming for future reference.

I guess what bothers me and maybe it will improve is WUNC advertising shows on their sub/multi channels on their OTA ATSC feed for the 8pm to 11pm slot. These shows they advertise are on the -ED subfeed for example and -ED subfeed is off line from 8pm until 11pm.

So if you use OTA ATSC you are SOL to watch them.

Now if I was a TWC cable subscriber this would not be a issue because all subchannels are live all the time for UNC via Digital cable.

If WRAL is advertising the games in HD through OTA ATSC advertising and than actually shows the games in digital for ATSC OTA customers and not HD this would be a bummer.

Don't get me wrong I realise OTA ATSC has a bandwidth limitation. But darn it, don't promise an ATSC OTA customer something that is impossible for them to see outside of having Digital TWC.

-DonB2

I guess what bothers me and maybe it will improve is WUNC advertising shows on their sub/multi channels on their OTA ATSC feed for the 8pm to 11pm slot. These shows they advertise are on the -ED subfeed for example and -ED subfeed is off line from 8pm until 11pm.

So if you use OTA ATSC you are SOL to watch them.

Now if I was a TWC cable subscriber this would not be a issue because all subchannels are live all the time for UNC via Digital cable.

If WRAL is advertising the games in HD through OTA ATSC advertising and than actually shows the games in digital for ATSC OTA customers and not HD this would be a bummer.

Don't get me wrong I realise OTA ATSC has a bandwidth limitation. But darn it, don't promise an ATSC OTA customer something that is impossible for them to see outside of having Digital TWC.

-DonB2

i can understand that, and agree with you if that is the case. they should clearly state OTA isn't HD. but, i wasn't aware WRAL was stating HD game coverage OTA in their advertisements. i seem to recall them advertising all 64 games on 5.1-5.?, TWC channels blah-blah, and HD on TWC channels 254 and 255. i don't ever remember them saying or implying their coverage would be HD on 5.1-5.? OTA. i'm not saying they didn't do that, i just don't remember it.

Long Time Lurker, Seldom poster...

I love this site lots of really good information.

FINALLY got around to it and just installed the Radio Shack 15-2160 UHF antenna ($24.95) in my attic and pointed it at the "Raleigh" antenna farm...WOW instant FREE HDTV.

Got a problem, however, NO SOUND. Here's my particulars:

Live in Hope Mills (south of Fayetteville) about 55 miles from antennas
Using DirecTV HR10-250 HD tuner to decode the OTA signal
MOST signals coming in ~75% or better (which really surprised me!)

The sound on all of the DirecTV channels is fine (even the locals), but no sound at all from the OTA tuned channels.... makes me think I've got a setting wrong

Any ideas? Is anyone else using the HR10-250 for OTA?
Thanks - John

Anyone else notice in the HD NCAA games the picture occasionally getting blurry for just a split second, and then clearing up again? i noticed this last year too. i haven't seen anything like it on any other channel or any other sport on CBS. i have only seen it on CBS NCAA broadcast. i was watching it via builtin QAM tuner on my sony rplcd, and i also noticed it over at a friends house on his 42" plasma with a TWC HD DVR.

any ideas what is causing it?

Long Time Lurker, Seldom poster...

I love this site lots of really good information.

FINALLY got around to it and just installed the Radio Shack 15-2160 UHF antenna ($24.95) in my attic and pointed it at the "Raleigh" antenna farm...WOW instant FREE HDTV.

Got a problem, however, NO SOUND. Here's my particulars:

Live in Hope Mills (south of Fayetteville) about 55 miles from antennas
Using DirecTV HR10-250 HD tuner to decode the OTA signal
MOST signals coming in ~75% or better (which really surprised me!)

The sound on all of the DirecTV channels is fine (even the locals), but no sound at all from the OTA tuned channels.... makes me think I've got a setting wrong

Any ideas? Is anyone else using the HR10-250 for OTA?
Thanks - John

i use an hr10-250 OTA. no problems. how do you have it hooked up (especially the audio)? directly to TV with HDMI, through a receiver, other?

i use an hr10-250 OTA. no problems. how do you have it hooked up (especially the audio)? directly to TV with HDMI, through a receiver, other?


I've got the Video output going directly to the TV's DVI input via HDMI=>DVI cable. I've got the audio going to Denon AVR-3600 via the RCA jack (red, white) audio outputs...

The confusing part for me is that the sound works fine on all channels except the Off Air locals. I even still get the "Tivo Sounds" with the OTA local channels displayed...just none of the broadcast audio (I thought perhaps it was just at a greatly reduced volume so I tried turning the receiver WAY UP --no change)

Guess I will try to connect the audio direct to the TV and see if I get anything different.
-John

Anyone else notice in the HD NCAA games the picture occasionally getting blurry for just a split second, and then clearing up again? i noticed this last year too. i haven't seen anything like it on any other channel or any other sport on CBS. i have only seen it on CBS NCAA broadcast. i was watching it via builtin QAM tuner on my sony rplcd, and i also noticed it over at a friends house on his 42" plasma with a TWC HD DVR.

any ideas what is causing it?

First I though it was just me, but you are correct in your observations. It also happened during 60 Minutes. Close head shots of the marine being interviewed were in focus then as he moved his head the focus would go soft only to return to normal as soon as the movement stopped. Very strange to say the least. I have TWC, so maybe that is the common thread here.

THESE 2 ARE ON THE SAME TOWER IN GRIFTON NC

WNCT 9.1 CBS HD digital 10
WNCT 9.2 CW SD
--------------------------------------

WITN 7.1 NBC HD digital 32
WITN 7.2 WX SD

--------------------------------------

TOWER AROUND GREENVILLE NC
WUNK 25.1-.5 UNC digital 23
----------------------------------------
TOWER IN AYDEN NC
WYDO 14.1 FOX HD digital 21
----------------------------------------

TOWER NEAR NEW BERN NC
WCTI 12.1 ABC HD digital 48
WCTI 12.3 ENCTV SD



10,21,23,32 NEAR SAME POINTING DIRECTION
48 A LITTLE OFF

First I though it was just me, but you are correct in your observations. It also happened during 60 Minutes. Close head shots of the marine being interviewed were in focus then as he moved his head the focus would go soft only to return to normal as soon as the movement stopped. Very strange to say the least. I have TWC, so maybe that is the common thread here.
I wasn't watching that, but did notice another problem on TWC watching Cold Case on WRAL 5.1 last night via my QAM tuner. Several times when the pic switched to B&W on flashbacks, it became extremely grainy. Other times there was no problem. I can't decide whether it was TWC, CBS, WRAL or my TV at fault. I've also seen this happen briefly in the past, every time on WRAL IIRC.

Is the WRAZ signal reduced. I've been having a problem with their signal for a few weeks now. WRAL, WTVD, etc,.. all come in at 90%. WRAZ is at about 50%.

I've got the Video output going directly to the TV's DVI input via HDMI=>DVI cable. I've got the audio going to Denon AVR-3600 via the RCA jack (red, white) audio outputs...

The confusing part for me is that the sound works fine on all channels except the Off Air locals. I even still get the "Tivo Sounds" with the OTA local channels displayed...just none of the broadcast audio (I thought perhaps it was just at a greatly reduced volume so I tried turning the receiver WAY UP --no change)

Guess I will try to connect the audio direct to the TV and see if I get anything different.
-John

ah ... you are using stereo audio. check the audio options on your HR10-250. all OTA ATSC channels, and some premium channels on directv have dolby digital audio streams. if you don't have your settings correct, the HR10 250 will not convert the dolby digital streams to stereo outputs. i think the setting of importance is the in the settings->audio menu. i think its called digital output settings. make sure it is set to convert to PCM. if its set to dolby digital out, like i said, i don't think it will convert the output to stereo. there is also an option to record dolby digital or not. i don't think that affects the audio output, but you can also try changing that.

I've got the Video output going directly to the TV's DVI input via HDMI=>DVI cable. I've got the audio going to Denon AVR-3600 via the RCA jack (red, white) audio outputs...

The confusing part for me is that the sound works fine on all channels except the Off Air locals. I even still get the "Tivo Sounds" with the OTA local channels displayed...just none of the broadcast audio (I thought perhaps it was just at a greatly reduced volume so I tried turning the receiver WAY UP --no change)

Guess I will try to connect the audio direct to the TV and see if I get anything different.
-John


OK now I'm really stumped...
I disconnected everything except ran the HDMI=>DVI directly to the TV and the RCA (red, white) audio jacks direct to the TV.

Normal audio on all the DirecTV channels but NO AUDIO on the OTA tuned channels...WRAL 5-1 specifically was showing 82% signal but no audio. Wish I had another OTA tuner to try...maybe that's next - I spring for the HR20-700

- John

OK now I'm really stumped...
I disconnected everything except ran the HDMI=>DVI directly to the TV and the RCA (red, white) audio jacks direct to the TV.

Normal audio on all the DirecTV channels but NO AUDIO on the OTA tuned channels...WRAL 5-1 specifically was showing 82% signal but no audio. Wish I had another OTA tuner to try...maybe that's next - I spring for the HR20-700

- John

did you change the audio settings like i suggested? i don't get audio out of my TV over HDMI for dolby digital stations (OTA and some premium directv channels). but i do if i change the settings as i mentioned.

I am a Raleigh NC TWC customer and my SA Explorer 8300HD DVR began acting up last night. It won’t tune in ABC at all and several other channels like discovery HD won’t tune in either. The weird thing is that the SD ABC won’t tune in either. Has TWC lost the rights to ABC? I will switch to satellite instantly if that is the case? Was there an update made to the software for the 8300HD DVR recently?

i *HATE* subchannels! i was very dissapointed that WRAL showed 4 SD feeds (of pretty low quality) instead of 1 or 2 HD feeds. i *personally* would rather watch ANY game in HD than an SD game, with the possible exception of the local/ACC teams.
I too am disapointed with WRAL but I guess we see your true colors with the comment about the ACC teams. But that is the whole point you are here, WRAL is here, the ACC is here and we should have HD coverage of the ACC teams in the coverage area that WRAL serves. (PERIOD) If you don't want to watch the ACC, you picked the wrong place to live.

TWC isn't limited by the bandwidth in a single OTA channel, they also provided 2 additional HD feeds over cable. this ADDED feature has nothing to do with playing favorites to TWC.

So who else besides TWC got the extra HD feeds?

WRAL didn't take anything away from OTA to enable this feature.

HELLO, the HD Feed. If they didn't take anything away what are we talking about?

... WRAL sucks.

Agreed.

... i just wish they wouldn't divide their bandwidth with a bunch of subchannels, for NCAA tourney broadcast, or for any other broadcast for that matter.
Same here.

"Originally Posted by drill
Anyone else notice in the HD NCAA games the picture occasionally getting blurry for just a split second, and then clearing up again? i noticed this last year too. i haven't seen anything like it on any other channel or any other sport on CBS. i have only seen it on CBS NCAA broadcast. i was watching it via builtin QAM tuner on my sony rplcd, and i also noticed it over at a friends house on his 42" plasma with a TWC HD DVR.

any ideas what is causing it?"


I first notice this issue on WUNC a year and a half ago. Whenever I was watching some nature type show and they panned in close to fast moving water the picture would get blurry/pixelate.

I am guessing it is part of the on the fly bandwidth allocation. I read previously that stations are capable of dynamically allocating bandwidth.

On the other hand I have also wondered if it is maybe the "Recording Equipment" that is causing this issue.

-DonB2

Anyone else notice in the HD NCAA games the picture occasionally getting blurry for just a split second, and then clearing up again? i noticed this last year too. i haven't seen anything like it on any other channel or any other sport on CBS. i have only seen it on CBS NCAA broadcast. i was watching it via builtin QAM tuner on my sony rplcd, and i also noticed it over at a friends house on his 42" plasma with a TWC HD DVR.

any ideas what is causing it?


It's an issue with CBS. It was noticable in Greensboro, but not other sites. It has been discussed in the HDTV Programming forum for quite some time.

Jeff

Hey guys,

I just purchased a second HDTV and am looking pick up a second HD Box from TWC. I have a SA 8300HD DVR on my first HDTV, but am looking at getting a non-DVR HD box for my second HDTV. What is the best non-DVR HD box available? Does TWC have any boxes that have HDMI outputs?

So who else besides TWC got the extra HD feeds?


Who else besides TWC _could_ have gotten them in the first place? Should WRAL have a fat fiber connection to wherever DTV uplinks from (how do they do it now?) ? I hope you aren't suggesting that TWC customers should go without a fantastic feature since satellite people can't have it too (or would have to buy a special package to get it).

WRAL is a pioneer in HD broadcasting, and I applaud them for doing what they do. They even gave me a free antenna to boot! A really nice 4228. Can't complain about them.

I understand the disappointment in not having the main game in HD, and I agree that it is confusing that they still have 5.1 in SD when there is only one game on rather than switching back and forth. I think most people in the market (save ones that care enough to post on avs about hdtv) would rather have the variety. Remember, there are people out there that buy HDTVs because they are flat, not because of the picture, and there are a TON of people around here interested in other teams.

I wonder if it's possible for a 1080i setup like WRAL to broadcast in widescreen 480p. If they could do 4 widescreen 480p channels that looked decent that would eliminate a lot of the issues. I guess their encoders aren't up to it or something, since their SD signal really looked like crap.

dslate69 ... don't take my comments out of context. i DO NOT think WRAL sucks. i think they do a pretty damned good job. if you think they suck, fine, but DO NOT attribute that to me. i DO NOT agree with you on this point.


So who else besides TWC got the extra HD feeds?

i would bet anyone that wanted the extra feeds, got the extra feeds. i am certain if directv approached WRAL and said they wanted to broadcast WRALs HD feeds on extra mpeg4 channels, WRAL would allow them to do so. but directv isn't going to ask ... they are starved for BW as it is. does directv broadcast 5.2, 5.3, etc. NO. does TWC, yes. does WRAL prevent directv from carrying 5.2, 5.3, etc? NO. in directv's case, they don't have the extra HD feeds because they don't want the extra HD feeds. its not WRAL's fault.

as far as OTA, you obviously just don't get it. WRAL is doing their best to provide as much as they can. They only have one 19Mbit channel to work with OTA. that's a physical thing. they can't change it. its a fact of life. just because WRAL didn't choose to do exactly what you wanted them to do with that 19Mbit channel doesn't make their choice of what to broadcast wrong. you (and I) just don't agree with it. i am quite certain there are a lot of people that would rather have access to all the games, than just a few local ACC teams in HD.

so why should WRAL limit what they do on cable because OTA or the dish can't handle it? i personally am very happy that they don't stop at the least common denominator. by pushing each medium as far as it can go, they improve everyone. if you are pissed off enough, get TWC cable next year. if enough people do that, directv will notice and figure out some way to get the HD feeds on the sat. unfortunately, OTA is just screwed by the physical limit of the 19Mbit channel.

I believe Directv gets their WRAL feed from the OTA feed. So, by making the choice they did they automatically excluded Directv customers from being able to receive the one and only game they could receive (assuming they can't get OTA reception) in HD. I'm one of those customers.

I still find it hard to believe there are more customers with HD sets that would rather have all four games in SD than one in HD and one in SD. WRAL has done a good job of getting on the HD bandwagon early. But, I still think they made a mistake here.

Hey guys,

I just purchased a second HDTV and am looking pick up a second HD Box from TWC. I have a SA 8300HD DVR on my first HDTV, but am looking at getting a non-DVR HD box for my second HDTV. What is the best non-DVR HD box available? Does TWC have any boxes that have HDMI outputs?


TWC has the SA3250 HD receiver. It has component, two 1394 ports, and DVI but no HDMI. Here is link to info with rear panel photos ==> http://scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/4005304.pdf

I still find it hard to believe there are more customers with HD sets that would rather have all four games in SD than one in HD and one in SD. WRAL has done a good job of getting on the HD bandwagon early. But, I still think they made a mistake here.

There probably aren't. However, I'll be watching BOTH games in HD for no additional charge on Thursday/Friday thanks to TWC and WRAL.

I am quite happy with the decision to provide the games to TWC. I would like to see WRAL do one game in HD and 1 in SD OTA.

Jeff

I believe Directv gets their WRAL feed from the OTA feed. So, by making the choice they did they automatically excluded Directv customers from being able to receive the one and only game they could receive (assuming they can't get OTA reception) in HD. I'm one of those customers.

I still find it hard to believe there are more customers with HD sets that would rather have all four games in SD than one in HD and one in SD. WRAL has done a good job of getting on the HD bandwagon early. But, I still think they made a mistake here.

yes, i think you are correct that directv gets their WRAL feed OTA. if directv wanted to fork up some $$$ to do a fiber optic feed, i am sure WRAL would be happy to support that just as they do with TWC.

i sort of agree with you on HD TV owner preferences. i don't find it "hard" to believe, but i would be suprised by it. i hope WRAL did some sort of research to back their decision to broadcast all the games instead of have a 1 or 2 HD feeds. if they didn't, hopefully they are monitoring this forum to see the opinions of us vocal OTA folks. has anyone sent any feedback to them through their website asking why they decided to go with 4 SD feeds instead of 1 or 2 HD feeds?

-g

I believe Directv gets their WRAL feed from the OTA feed. So, by making the choice they did they automatically excluded Directv customers from being able to receive the one and only game they could receive (assuming they can't get OTA reception) in HD. I'm one of those customers.

DirecTV made the choice to do OTA instead of via a fiber feed, so while WRAL's decision affected DirecTV users, so did the choice DirecTV made. Make sure to share the wrath appropriately.

i would bet anyone that wanted the extra feeds, got the extra feeds.
I wanted just one via OTA so you lose the bet.
That is the point TWC got them and to my knowledge; they were the only ones to get them (not just OTA & SAT but any other cable provider). My point isn't TWC shouldn't get extra games. It is at the expense of every other viewer that doesn't have TWC. The main feed on 5.1 should always be HD and then if they want to give extra games to Burger-King, more power to them.
as far as OTA, you obviously just don't get it.
I only wanted one HD feed and your right I didn't get it.

so why should WRAL limit what they do on cable because OTA or the dish can't handle it?
Because they are FIRST and FOREMOST an OTA station. If they want to be a TWC exclusive great GO let someone else that is commited to providing HD to ALL their customers take over CBS in this area.

i am quite certain there are a lot of people that would rather have access to all the games, than just a few local ACC teams in HD.
You want to take a head count of fans in and out of the ACC in this area. I would be happy for that to be the deciding factor.
I'll bet a lot of people would rather watch another NFL team besides the Panthers; but this is where they live so if the Panthers are playing they should be on. When they are not; show the National feed but I want it in HD.
TWC can get 1000 games at a time, I don't care. As long as WRAL is the CBS-HD affiliate in this area, I expect HD.

There probably aren't. However, I'll be watching BOTH games in HD for no additional charge on Thursday/Friday thanks to TWC and WRAL.

I am quite happy with the decision to provide the games to TWC. I would like to see WRAL do one game in HD and 1 in SD OTA.

Jeff

if it wasn't clear from my previous posts, i concur ... i would rather have at least 1 HD feed.

according to WRAL's website, they will have OTA 5.1, 5.2, and 5.3 active thursday. 5.1 and 5.3 are showing the same games. i am hoping that at least the 5.1 feed is HD. anyone know what the HD status is for this weekends games?

DirecTV made the choice to do OTA instead of via a fiber feed, so while WRAL's decision affected DirecTV users, so did the choice DirecTV made. Make sure to share the wrath appropriately.
Yea I made the decision to go with DISH. I share some responsibility too. But I also have been enjoying 30+ HD channels since I left TWC's pitiful offering. And with OTA built into my receiver I've had WB in HD as well. I have seen plenty of ESPN2-HD games that TWC subs missed. TWC jumps to the head of the class once a year but the rest of the time they are flunking the HD class. :o

Hey if DISH had the exclusive I would be happy too. I still don't see how anyone can agree with OTA 5.1 not being HD all the time. I am not saying take the extras away from TWC just don't take from OTA to do it.

I am not saying take the extras away from TWC just don't take from OTA to do it.

... and Directv customers that get 5.1 via satellite.

I wanted just one via OTA so you lose the bet.
That is the point TWC got them and to my knowledge; they were the only ones to get them (not just OTA & SAT but any other cable provider). My point isn't TWC shouldn't get extra games. It is at the expense of every other viewer that doesn't have TWC. The main feed on 5.1 should always be HD and then if they want to give extra games to Burger-King, more power to them.

when i said anyone, i didn't mean individuals. i should have said any service provider. directv doesn't want all of wral's HD feeds for the tournament. they sell that as the mega march madness package for $69. they don't want anyone to have that for free. if any other cable provider or dish provider wanted to pay for fiber delivery instead of getting the feed OTA, they could have had HD. WRAL isn't preventing that. WRAL just chose to broadcast 4 SD games OTA, and that's how all other service providers except TWC receive their feed.

you still haven't explained how TWC having extra HD feeds causes the rest of the viewing public (OTA/satellite) to not have an HD feed. How is TWCs extra HD channels "at the expense of every other viewer that doesn't have TWC"? your logic escapes me. TWC has nothing to do with WRAL's choice to broadcast 4 SD feeds OTA.


I only wanted one HD feed and your right I didn't get it.

no, what you don't get is that it isn't all about you. other people have opinions and wants. your desires weren't met, but others were.

TWC has the SA3250 HD receiver. It has component, two 1394 ports, and DVI but no HDMI. Here is link to info with rear panel photos ==> http://scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/4005304.pdf

Are the 1394 ports disabled, or can I use them to capture HD content on my PC?

I give.
Anyone that thinks it's great that the local HD channel doesn't want to provide HD, Super!... enjoy. I hope they decide to have a WRAL multicast bonanza 24\7 with no HD since that is obviously what the people want. With "choice" as the reason maybe there shouldn't be any OTA HD just OTA multicast.
Like I said before I got it in HD and not from WRAL. I am voicing my displeasure at the decision because it is wrong not because I am missing the games in HD.

I give.
Anyone that thinks it's great that the local HD channel doesn't want to provide HD, Super!... enjoy. I hope they decide to have a WRAL multicast bonanza 24\7 with no HD since that is obviously what the people want. With "choice" as the reason maybe there shouldn't be any OTA HD just OTA multicast.
Like I said before I got it in HD and not from WRAL. I am voicing my displeasure at the decision because it is wrong not because I am missing the games in HD.

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you. I haven't heard one "OTA only", Dish, or Directv customer say they were happy with the decision.

I find it hard to believe that putting all 4 games on OTA was a pre-req to giving TW all 4 games in HD. But, who knows.

BTW - looking at the guide for Thursday indicates the games on 5.1 will be in HD and the other game on 5.2 will be in SD.

I posted this around a year ago but it seems appropriate to drag it out again:

"Assessing (general) public opinion from posts on specialized internet forums is like asking a fan at Fenway if the Yankees are any good this year. It's a big world."

WRAL and TWC are serving their majorities. We like to read and post here because we have commonality: a love for all things visually brilliant. But to think that we in any way represent even a quarter of those served by these entities is a bit arrogant. WRAL is providing as much as it can to as many as it can. TWC does so as well. Both are also businesses, operating under the requirement to make money. Both accept the risk of being castigated in arenas such as this, but know many more are jubilant at getting to see their out-of-area team, essentially for free. Personally, I think they're doing a great job. Go to any other region and see; we are spoiled to have front-runners in technology in our home area.

We appreciate all the comments -- positive and otherwise --regarding WRAL's NCAA coverage during the first two rounds of the tournament. I thought it would be good to provide some answers and feedback to some of you who had questions or concerns about the coverage, so here goes:



First let's deal with the HD issue. The fact that WRAL dropped its over-the-air HD signal for the first four days of the tournament is not new. We began multicasting all the tournament games seven years ago and the only way to do that over-the-air is by reconfiguring our digital bandwidth and dropping HD. CBS is well aware of this practice and even encourages us to provide the multiple games, so the claims of "false advertising" are a bit overblown in our opinion. As some of you mentioned here, we fed two HD games at a time to Time Warner via a fiber line, so many viewers did have HD. Bottom line - we know that the multicast is a trade-off between HD and SD, but we've been willing to accept it for one four-day period each year.



DirecTV was not able to carry WRAL’s HD feeds because it relies on the station’s over-the-air HD signal, which was not available for those four days. Unlike Time Warner, Direct does not have a fiber connection to WRAL – so it was only able to pass along our Standard Definition digital signal. Again, it’s part of the tradeoff that we accept during the first two rounds of the tournament.



Several of you questioned why PBS is able to provide one HD channel and several SD channels in its digital bandwidth. It’s all a matter of content. Basketball is fast-paced, high motion content and it requires lots of bandwidth. Otherwise, it looks “blocky” and ragged and is almost unwatchable. PBS does not normally carry this type of high-motion programming, so the local station can crunch down the channel size and use the bandwidth for more low-motion channel offerings. It’s simply a case of digital apples and oranges.



Finally – the question and concern over content and why the same game appeared so often on multiple channels. CBS offers stations two types of NCAA game feeds – a “flex” feed for most stations and a so-called “constant” feed for stations in areas where a home team is playing in that particular game. As we’ve all seen – there is no such thing as a truly constant feed. CBS has been very aggressive in jumping from venue to venue any time the action heats up. The network says it is televising a tournament, not just a bunch of separate games, and it wants viewers to get that full-tournament feel by having them look in at many different games. This often happens simultaneously on all the feeds and creates those maddening situations where the same action is being fed across all our channels. Even the constant feeds will occasionally jump to other action, as was witnessed in the second half of UNC’s first round game. These content switches are completely out of WRAL’s control. We must take the feeds as CBS sends them, and we acknowledge that it’s not always what some viewers want to see.



The good news is two-fold: WRAL-HD is back and the jumping feeds should improve from here on in. After the final game Sunday evening, WRAL reconfigured its bandwidth and returned to the standard set-up of one HD and one SD channel. This will remain in place indefinitely, so over-the-air HD viewers and those with DirecTV should be back in business. With only two simultaneous games airing on Thursday and Friday, we should also see less venue-jumping. This has been the pattern in previous years and we hope it continues this tournament. Again – WRAL has no direct control over the feeds and how often the action is interrupted, but we can assure you that we’ve voiced our opinion on this issue to the CBS brass in New York.



Thanks again to everyone who took the time to comment. The multicast is not perfect, by any means, but it is free to over-the-air viewers and gives people a chance to see all the games in some shape or fashion. We’ll keep an eye on this section the rest of the tournament and will provide more feedback if required. May your favorite team advance.

I think making any comment as to how WRAL thinks is a presumption. I sure as heck don't know how they think.

Maybe someone on this board has an inside edge with them but it sure is not me.

I will say they appear to do a lot better job with their station than others in this area or even stations in upstate NY for example.

Of course there is not a lot of good Jobs in up state NY and that is why a lot of us are down here. :rolleyes:

-DonB2

We appreciate all the comments -- positive and otherwise --regarding WRAL's NCAA coverage during the first two rounds of the tournament.

Chuck, thanks for giving the station's perspective. I hope you reconsider next year and decide not to short change the OTA and Satellite crowd in the HD department. Just my opinion. But, so far I have not heard of one person that was pleased to get 4 (or in my case 1) games in SD and none in HD. The TW customers are certainly well served, but the rest of us are getting short changed. One game in HD and a bonus game in SD would be great.

Doug

Chuck, thanks for giving the station's perspective. I hope you reconsider next year and decide not to short change the OTA and Satellite crowd in the HD department. Just my opinion. But, so far I have not heard of one person that was pleased to get 4 (or in my case 1) games in SD and none in HD. The TW customers are certainly well served, but the rest of us are getting short changed. One game in HD and a bonus game in SD would be great.

Doug


Doug,

We really do appreciate the feedback.

Based on what we have been hearing we have already started our discussions internally for next years coverage plans.

Chuck, thanks for giving the station's perspective. I hope you reconsider next year and decide not to short change the OTA and Satellite crowd in the HD department. Just my opinion. But, so far I have not heard of one person that was pleased to get 4 (or in my case 1) games in SD and none in HD. The TW customers are certainly well served, but the rest of us are getting short changed. One game in HD and a bonus game in SD would be great.

Doug

Agreed. What I don't get is the attitude that 4 games in SD is better than none or 2 games in HD! Huh! It's to be assumed that if someone has an OTA antenna and it's connected to a set in which they could see the 4 feeds, then that person may also be expecting to see a HD feed seeing as though they're watching a hd set using and OTA antenna. So the customers on TWC wouldn't want to see 4 games at once instead of 2 HD games? I mean if the prevailing feeling is that customers would prefer to see 4 games at one, why wouldn't TWC customers want to see 4 games at once? Shouldn't they be treated to 4 games at once? I'm on Directv but I'm just repeating what some are saying about why it's good to get 4 SD feeds instead of two HD feeds.

I'm new to this market. I came from Phoenix, AZ and before that Jacksonville, FL so excuse my ignorance to how 4 SD games are good for some and how 2 HD is good for some but not for others. Sure 4 is more than 2, but if more is better why not provide 4 to TWC because we keep hearing from some and the WRAL person how more is better.

I go back to the point that WRAL has the direct fiber link to TWC and as such they chose to provide TWC with HD games while deciding not to bless the OTA folks with HD. That's a decision WRAL chose to make. They could have just simply provided an HD feel to everyone, but I guess they feel the need to say that they provided 4 SD games at once for the last 7 years b/c I guess they're proud of that ability. That's a great accomplishment! Not many stations in the country can claim that. :rolleyes:

So the customers on TWC wouldn't want to see 4 games at once instead of 2 HD games? I mean if the prevailing feeling is that customers would prefer to see 4 games at one, why wouldn't TWC customers want to see 4 games at once? Shouldn't they be treated to 4 games at once? I'm on Directv but I'm just repeating what some are saying about why it's good to get 4 SD feeds instead of two HD feeds.

I think TWC had 4 SD feeds just like OTA and then 2 ADDITIONAL HD feeds, for a total of 6 feeds. (if not 6, they had 5). but, in the end, TWC customers had access to all 4 games, and 2 of them in HD. the additional feeds AND HD were possible because they have a fiber line to get the content from WRAL and aren't limited to the 19Mbit physical ATSC channel.

One game in HD and a bonus game in SD would be great.


well said! and i couldn't agree more.

oh, and kudos go out to chuck for stopping by and giving the stations viewpoint!

I am glad WRAL is at least listening. Of course that doesn't mean change. :mad:
The MAJOR problem is that the ACC is so damn good (Carolina carrying the load this year) and are always in the Tourney getting the shaft from WRAL for more games MOST of us won't watch. Granted if Duke and Carolina were playing at the same time and only one got the HD feed; a whole other discussion would be brewing. To not have the Carolina game in HD in Carolina's on market when another in market team is not on is a crime.

Doug,

We really do appreciate the feedback.

Based on what we have been hearing we have already started our discussions internally for next years coverage plans.
More feedback, if I may. I am a TWC Customer and had all 4 games going and the HD feed.

I don't believe it is worth not having HD in order to have all 4 games, as was the case with others. I say this as someone who luckily had HD via TWC.

The better match-up was generally on 255 (HD), and the constant switching (out of your control) made it hard to follow any single game anyway. When things got close elsewhere, CBS would "look in" for a short while. I didn't find that distracting to the primary game I was watching. There were times when all 4 were at commercial (you may like that, but we fanatics don't - even when spolied with 4 games at once).

The only benefit I had from 4 games at once was to do my own "look in" by switching to one of the other games (or using PIP). The score "bug" at the top kept me updated enough making that barely necessary. Lastly, we all have the internet and fanatics that want 4 games at once have other alternatives to accomplish that. Personally, I'd go out to a pub. If the local teams (State, Duke, UNC, Wake) all played at once we would all find a way (or place) to have it all. Heck, I'd want to be at a pub if that happened.

I think WRAL can provide greater satisfaction to a broader audience with a high quality production to all, and not via greater quantity. If I had all 4 games in HD, I'd likely be locked into one, and occasionally peek at the others.

My 2 cents.

Got a big decision to make: DirecTV vs. Dish for HDTV service.

Considering I'll be in Holly Springs, I *should* be able to get all the locals OTA, so no knocks on Dish there. All things considered, which one should I choose?

Pros for Dish: No HD DVR cost, way more HD channels, Starz in HD, maybe a few dollars cheaper per month.

Pros for DirecTV: Guaranteed locals in HD, every FSN regional ever (can you get these on Dish?), that's about it

Of course, with DirecTV I hafta pay $199 for an HD DVR, so I'm leaning towards Dish, but I'm terrified I won't get locals OTA without a roof antenna, which I am not interested in erecting.

Surely someone here has been in this dilemma -- help!

P.S. - TWC isn't an option because 1) there's no ESPN2HD and 2) there's no ESPN-U

Got a big decision to make: DirecTV vs. Dish for HDTV service.

Considering I'll be in Holly Springs, I *should* be able to get all the locals OTA, so no knocks on Dish there. All things considered, which one should I choose?

Pros for Dish: No HD DVR cost, way more HD channels, Starz in HD, maybe a few dollars cheaper per month.

Pros for DirecTV: Guaranteed locals in HD, every FSN regional ever (can you get these on Dish?), that's about it

Of course, with DirecTV I hafta pay $199 for an HD DVR, so I'm leaning towards Dish, but I'm terrified I won't get locals OTA without a roof antenna, which I am not interested in erecting.

Surely someone here has been in this dilemma -- help!

P.S. - TWC isn't an option because 1) there's no ESPN2HD and 2) there's no ESPN-U

I dont think you will have any problem with OTA with an attic antenna. Im further from the antenna farm than you (im in apex) and I get them all rock solid (94 on signal meter) with attic antenna.

DishHD may look better now, programming wise, but once Directv gets the new sats up later this year, they say they will have alot more HD. They have agreements in place for over 70 channels already.
Already announced, CNN, FOX NEWS, THE WEATHER CHANNEL, SPEED, FX, NGCHD, NFLHD, BRAVO, CARTOON NETWORK, ESPNEWS, DISNEY, TOON DISNEY, FOOD, HGTV, A&E, SCIFI, TBS, HISTORY CH, MTV, FOX SPORTS NET
Also already up, WRAL, WTVD, WNCN, WLFL, WRAZ

I've had Directv for a number of years. I breifly considered Dish for HD. But, I live in Raleigh and cannot get the signals OTA reliably, so Dish was out. I live in a hilly, wooded area. WRAL checked my signal and told me the reason was I don't have a direct line of sight to the towers. I also like the sports pkg's available via Directv and the one DVR charge for multiple DVRs. I'm looking forward to the additional HD channels they should bring online in the fall.

^^ With those new sats, will a new HD DVR be rolled out, making the one I'd buy now antiquated? Or can the current HD DVR handle the new material that will (hopefully) be rolled out?

Also, I know that HBO / Showtime is in HD via DirecTV, but what about Starz? It isn't listed clearly on their site.

^^ With those new sats, will a new HD DVR be rolled out, making the one I'd buy now antiquated? Or can the current HD DVR handle the new material that will (hopefully) be rolled out?

Also, I know that HBO / Showtime is in HD via DirecTV, but what about Starz? It isn't listed clearly on their site.

Don't know about Starz HD. But, the current HDDVR, the HR20, and the current dish, the SlimLine, are good for the new satellites. I'm very pleased with the HD quality of the MPEG4 channels.

^ Nice. Any "deals" that aren't listed on the site? I know the 12-month price promotion on channel packages, but is there any haggling room if I were to setup by phone?

I'm pro-internet all the way, but ordering satellite service online just seems like a diasater waiting to happen -- experiences?

^ Nice. Any "deals" that aren't listed on the site? I know the 12-month price promotion on channel packages, but is there any haggling room if I were to setup by phone?

I'm pro-internet all the way, but ordering satellite service online just seems like a diasater waiting to happen -- experiences?

I've always done it via phone and received better deals than online. If you're switiching from cable be sure to mention that. Also, tell them you're considering Dish. Even when they give you a good deal make sure you ask if that's the best they can do. The CSR's seem to have some flexibility.

DishHD may look better now, programming wise, but once Directv gets the new sats up later this year, they say they will have alot more HD. They have agreements in place for over 70 channels already.
Already announced, CNN, FOX NEWS, THE WEATHER CHANNEL, SPEED, FX, NGCHD, NFLHD, BRAVO, CARTOON NETWORK, ESPNEWS, DISNEY, TOON DISNEY, FOOD, HGTV, A&E, SCIFI, TBS, HISTORY CH, MTV, FOX SPORTS NET
Also already up, WRAL, WTVD, WNCN, WLFL, WRAZ
Yea DirecTv is better at making promises. ;) 100 National HD channels by the end of the year? Betting against that is easy money, when half that many channels don't even exist right now. I hope they get them, DISH could use some HD competition as they will add every channel D* adds. Or do we think DISH will just give up HD (Bragging about being the HD leader in every Ad and all).
Up until this point DISH has been the HD leader and shown a commitment to keep that title. Things may change, but right now DISH is walking the walk and D* is not; as some of those HD channels listed are available NOW on DISH and NOT on D*.
Hopefully they will be able to merge if the SAT radios get it done. :cool:

On the WRAL / NCAA bit:

1) I did not watch much tournament action this past weekend because the SD signal was abysmal. Hard to watch a bunch of blurry guys run around the court. Not much better on the DirecTV feed since it's just grabbing the OTA feed anyway.

2) As pointed out, with all the jumping CBS does, and CBS treating it as a tournament rather than individual games, what's the reason for showing all four at once again? Especially since the 4 are essentially unwatchable?

It's fine if WRAL wants to make this decision, I'm not mad about it or anything, but just thought it was worth pointing out that WRAL lost a viewer over the weekend because of the decision.

Try to aim a antenna towards the east and pull in WNCT-9.1 (10.1)
They had the games in HD. If you are in the Cary area you may beable to pull in the signal, the WNCT signal borders the Raliegh area.

I can get 2.1 out of Greensboro/High Point, but I didn't check to see if they were showing any HD games.. All the games should be in HD from here on out,

Hi...I'm using BeyondTV to watch & record OTA HDTV. It works fine for all the local HD stations except for UNC. For the UNC station, I can watch live TV fine and the signal strength is good, but if I record anything, it causes a "corrupt file" error on playback.

I've been told that some channels are not in full compliance with standards and that it could be the problem. So I'm wondering anyone here has had this type of problem...or if anyone is using BTV successfully to record UNC.

Thanks - John

*delurk*

I mailed WRAZ the antenna form last week. A ChannelMaster 4228 was on my doorstep this morning.

Now to talk the boyfriend into going up into the attic. Or something.

EDIT: John, I'm running BTV. I don't usually have UNCHD in my lineup because I'm in a very unidirectional situation and it's the wrong way. But I'll turn it on later tonight and point the new antenna that way and let you know what happens when I record.

I'm on BTV 4.3, I think.

Hi...I'm using BeyondTV to watch & record OTA HDTV. It works fine for all the local HD stations except for UNC. For the UNC station, I can watch live TV fine and the signal strength is good, but if I record anything, it causes a "corrupt file" error on playback.

OK, I added UNCHD to my lineup (59.4.2) and recorded a few minutes of "American Experiences". Plays back fine. Exited shell and restarted, still plays.

Just wondering if anyone else has had any issues with ABC HD (11.1 - QAM) having sever stuttering issues? It was pretty much unwatchable tonight. No other stations displayed this problem at all.

Just kind of weird :confused:

Thanks

OK, I added UNCHD to my lineup (59.4.2) and recorded a few minutes of "American Experiences". Plays back fine. Exited shell and restarted, still plays.

Interesting....I'm at BTV 4.6...maybe I'll regress. The files play in Media Player and Fusion software, so it does look like a BTV problem. I'm using a FusionHDTV Lite card for capture. What are you using?

John

Just wondering if anyone else has had any issues with ABC HD (11.1 - QAM) having sever stuttering issues? It was pretty much unwatchable tonight. No other stations displayed this problem at all.

Just kind of weird :confused:

Thanks

I have ABC-HD thru Directv and my antenna and I just had a black screen with no sound. I came home from the gym and noticed that George Lopez recorded for like a minute and then a black screen and no sound. I then checked ABC-HD and no pic or sound on the Directv MPEG 4 version nor the antenna. I had to record Lost from the SD channel. Hopefully it is fixed today as I have Grey's and Betty Ugly set to record tonight.

Interesting....I'm at BTV 4.6...maybe I'll regress. The files play in Media Player and Fusion software, so it does look like a BTV problem. I'm using a FusionHDTV Lite card for capture. What are you using?

John

I had the same problem with BTV 4.5. I have not tired on 4.6 because if I set my antenna to pick it up I lose all the other channels.

PS I am getting a QAM TV next week. What level of cable do I need to pick up the unencrypted HD channels? Is it still only the locals?

I have ABC-HD thru Directv and my antenna and I just had a black screen with no sound. I came home from the gym and noticed that George Lopez recorded for like a minute and then a black screen and no sound. I then checked ABC-HD and no pic or sound on the Directv MPEG 4 version nor the antenna. I had to record Lost from the SD channel. Hopefully it is fixed today as I have Grey's and Betty Ugly set to record tonight.

We watched According to JIm OTA and didn't notice any problems. I think that is ABC.

After reinstalling my MythTV box with 0.20-fixes and scanning for channels over the air, I see the following WUNC channels:
4-1 WUNC-TV
4-2 WUNC-HD
4-4 WUNC-ED
4-5 WUNC-KD
4-100 WUNC-DA

I seem to be missing WUNC-NC (4-5), WUNC-KD seems to have the wrong number (4-5 vs 4-3), and I have no idea what WUNC-DA is. It seems to be just a blank screen. Does anybody else see something similar? Is WUNC-NC gone?

Thanks,

Drew

ah ... you are using stereo audio. check the audio options on your HR10-250. all OTA ATSC channels, and some premium channels on directv have dolby digital audio streams. if you don't have your settings correct, the HR10 250 will not convert the dolby digital streams to stereo outputs. i think the setting of importance is the in the settings->audio menu. i think its called digital output settings. make sure it is set to convert to PCM. if its set to dolby digital out, like i said, i don't think it will convert the output to stereo. there is also an option to record dolby digital or not. i don't think that affects the audio output, but you can also try changing that.

Drill,

Sorry for the slow response...got sent out of town on business for a couple days!! I did check the audio settings and they were already set as you suggested. I tried choosing the opposite settings (counter intuitive...but I was getting desperate) no change. Then last night I unplugged EVERYTHING let it sit for a while...and began a FULL re-setup (again). Woke up this morning and everything works as it should...full audio on all the OTA Channels!!

Thanks for your time/suggestions!!
- John

We watched According to JIm OTA and didn't notice any problems. I think that is ABC.

Yeah, I think OTA was fine. Now it's kinda making sense to me. It's prolly the equipment Directv is using to get ABC's signal. The reason I say that is b/c over the last couple of weeks there has been green blocking on most of the programs and last night everything prolly came to a head.

Yeah, I think OTA is ok, but QAM is not. Well, to my TV anyway :\

Again, all other stations were just dandy over QAM cable....just not ABC.

"4-100 WUNC-DA "

I am intrigued by 4-100. I see it on my Samsung DTB-H260F.

Everyonce in awhile I get tempted to select it and so far it just sends me to 4-1 :)

But I keep trying and expect it may be a audio channel if I ever do get it to do something.

-Donb2

We watched According to JIm OTA and didn't notice any problems. I think that is ABC.


Last night Lost OTA on 11.1 was fantastic!!! Sounds like Satellite/Direct TV issues

"4-100 WUNC-DA "

I am intrigued by 4-100. I see it on my Samsung DTB-H260F.

Everyonce in awhile I get tempted to select it and so far it just sends me to 4-1 :)

But I keep trying and expect it may be a audio channel if I ever do get it to do something.

-Donb2

I get this too with my Samsung T151, T451 and the tuner in my West 3213. I do not get redirected to any other station though.

I get this too with my Samsung T151, T451 and the tuner in my West 3213. I do not get redirected to any other station though.

Do you get anything on 4-100, or a blank signal, or..?

Drew

After reinstalling my MythTV box with 0.20-fixes and scanning for channels over the air, I see the following WUNC channels:
4-5 WUNC-KD
4-100 WUNC-DA


After un-clicking the "free to air channels only" box in the channel scanning widget and rescanning just WUNC, I now see WUNC-NC. However, it still collided with WUNC-KD for 4-5, and I had to move things around manually. It seems to work though..

Drew

I have ABC-HD thru Directv and my antenna and I just had a black screen with no sound. I came home from the gym and noticed that George Lopez recorded for like a minute and then a black screen and no sound. I then checked ABC-HD and no pic or sound on the Directv MPEG 4 version nor the antenna. I had to record Lost from the SD channel. Hopefully it is fixed today as I have Grey's and Betty Ugly set to record tonight.
Your problem is with the receiver. You should check the D* forums, as a simple reset or unplug fixes such things. From what I hear D*'s HD DVR is or has been pretty buggy. These receivers are essentially computers now a days and need to be reset when they get hung up.

I had the same problem with BTV 4.5. I have not tired on 4.6 because if I set my antenna to pick it up I lose all the other channels.

PS I am getting a QAM TV next week. What level of cable do I need to pick up the unencrypted HD channels? Is it still only the locals?

Thanks for responding...I"m curious about what tuner card you are using..I'm using a FusionHDTV LIte.

As for cable, I just have Basic and get the locals. But WRDC-DT is at 77.2, instead of 28.1, and WLFL-DT is at 77.1 instead of 22.

Interesting....I'm at BTV 4.6...maybe I'll regress. The files play in Media Player and Fusion software, so it does look like a BTV problem. I'm using a FusionHDTV Lite card for capture. What are you using?

John

I'm using an AverMedia a180. (It's a software-encoder ATSC/Alleged QAM card with s-video & composite inputs.)

(I have everything working perfectly, and I saw some complains about 4.6, and I already have upgradeophobia...so I've been hesitant to grab the new version. Or even *think* the word 'Vista'. :))

Anyone with a Directv HR20 having ota channel issues from antenna,
channels not coming in. Try to rerun the antenna setup, completely reset, re enter the markets. This got my local fox to work.

We have FOX on 2 channels, WFXI 8.1 (24.1) and WYDO 14.1 (21.1)
Currently 8.1 is being sent to the 14.1 tower and showing up as 8.1 but is actually using the 21.1 signal.

Other words the WFXI 8 signal is being beamed to the WYDO tower and sent out.
WYDO is waiting for software corrections so it will be correct and be shown as 14.1
These are the same channels, they are similar the UNC system. The FOX signal is not as strong so they use 2 channels to cover the market. (Greenville New Bern Washington).
Before could get a signal but no picture, after reset channel 14.1(21) is remapping to 8.1

Thanks for responding...I"m curious about what tuner card you are using..I'm using a FusionHDTV LIte.

As for cable, I just have Basic and get the locals. But WRDC-DT is at 77.2, instead of 28.1, and WLFL-DT is at 77.1 instead of 22.

Right now I have a ATI TV Wonder 650. I want to add a second card hopefully one that will do QAM with BTV.

I'm using an AverMedia a180. (It's a software-encoder ATSC/Alleged QAM card with s-video & composite inputs.)

(I have everything working perfectly, and I saw some complains about 4.6, and I already have upgradeophobia...so I've been hesitant to grab the new version. Or even *think* the word 'Vista'. :))

Did you get QAM to work?

Beta software update tonight and Sunday night 11p-2:30a
Force update


visit www.dbstalk.com
for more info.

I'm using an AverMedia a180. (It's a software-encoder ATSC/Alleged QAM card with s-video & composite inputs.)

(I have everything working perfectly, and I saw some complains about 4.6, and I already have upgradeophobia...so I've been hesitant to grab the new version. Or even *think* the word 'Vista'. :))


I hear you.."If it ain't broke..." Though, I'm not having any problems with 4.6. I don't think my UNC problem is a BTV issue.

Turns out, I can record and playback just fine between 8-11 PM, which is when UNC broadcasts HD content, on UNCDT1 & UNCDT2. During other hours they are multicasting on four channels (DT1,3,4,5). For some reason, it's the multicasts that can't be recorded. My guess is that there's something non-standard about their signal. I'm willing to bet that you have the same problem, but you tested it between 8-11.

John

Right now I have a ATI TV Wonder 650. I want to add a second card hopefully one that will do QAM with BTV.


You may want to look at the HDHomerun. The just announced a Beta version with BTV support.

http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomerun

Does anybody else watch the "24" reruns that are shown in the wee hours of the morning on WRAZ and then a day later on WRAL? If so, do you also find them to be exceptionally poor in quality? Ie, dim, with what looks like scaling and/or deinterlacing artifacts (even on the progressive 720p WRAZ broadcast)? For example, the "TV 14" whitebox shown when the show starts has black streaks in it, and some tearing.

The difference between the "24" reruns shown on WRAL/WRAZ and the "Stargate" reruns shown on WTVD is like night and day. It seems strange that WTVD's reruns look so much better; ie, almost like a DVD while WRAL's reruns look like they were transcoded from a VCR tape..

Drew

Whatever that storage company is called that sponsors those "time and weather on NBC brought to you by ..." interstitials, has lost me as a potential customer. I caught up with both FNL and Raines over the weekend and in both, that stupid SD weather splash ran into the HD broadcast of the show twice when it came back from commercial.

Does anybody else watch the "24" reruns that are shown in the wee hours of the morning on WRAZ and then a day later on WRAL? If so, do you also find them to be exceptionally poor in quality? Ie, dim, with what looks like scaling and/or deinterlacing artifacts (even on the progressive 720p WRAZ broadcast)? For example, the "TV 14" whitebox shown when the show starts has black streaks in it, and some tearing.

The difference between the "24" reruns shown on WRAL/WRAZ and the "Stargate" reruns shown on WTVD is like night and day. It seems strange that WTVD's reruns look so much better; ie, almost like a DVD while WRAL's reruns look like they were transcoded from a VCR tape..

Drew

Other than they are not widescreen, I have not noticed them being much worse than the current season of 24... which is also often very dark :) and certainly better than the SD re-runs on the Chicago station (WGN?)

Mike

PS. Given than I have an LCD HDTV I don't expect the best black levels (vs. plasma), but the LCD offered me 1080p (for my computer), so it was a compromise purchase.

You may want to look at the HDHomerun. The just announced a Beta version with BTV support.

http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomerun

I have one of these. Very cool device. It does exactly what it says it does. I even took it into work for ACC/NCAA tournament, hooked it up in a corner office closest to the towers and streamed the signal over the office network to the conference room and the projector. High def at work :)

But make sure you check to make sure the software you want to use supports the hdhr. It is a paradox. It doesn't take drivers, which makes you think it would be dirt simple for all PVR software to support (and it would be). But the catch is most software doesn't support it because it doesn't have much market penetration.

I use mythtv and it works great. Check out the forums to see what else is supported.
Best wishes,
Salem

Does anybody else watch the "24" reruns that are shown in the wee hours of the morning on WRAZ and then a day later on WRAL? If so, do you also find them to be exceptionally poor in quality? Ie, dim, with what looks like scaling and/or deinterlacing artifacts (even on the progressive 720p WRAZ broadcast)? For example, the "TV 14" whitebox shown when the show starts has black streaks in it, and some tearing.

The difference between the "24" reruns shown on WRAL/WRAZ and the "Stargate" reruns shown on WTVD is like night and day. It seems strange that WTVD's reruns look so much better; ie, almost like a DVD while WRAL's reruns look like they were transcoded from a VCR tape..

Drew
Yeah, they do look bad. Basically, anything sydicated through Fox (24, The X-Files, Buffy, King of the Hill, etc) looks pretty awful. Im pretty sure its been discussed somewhere on this site before as well, although I dont think anyone knows why they look so bad.

Yeah, they do look bad. Basically, anything sydicated through Fox (24, The X-Files, Buffy, King of the Hill, etc) looks pretty awful.

By that, do you mean that anything syndicated through Fox looks terrible, and it is not specific to our market? If so, that is a shame, as WRAL/WRAZ are pretty responsive..

Thanks,

Drew

Other than they are not widescreen, I have not noticed them being much worse than the current season of 24... which is also often very dark :) and certainly better than the SD re-runs on the Chicago station (WGN?)


To me it looks so bad that I've taken to recoding the showings in SD on 50-2, so as to save some space on the DVR. I don't see any less quality.. The current season is much, much better (and I'd never record that on 50-2).

Drew

Since I first Started watching HD on my dell Widescreen LCD to presently on my Pioneer Plasma I have noticed black dark scenes especially in action shows like 24 and also in Sci Fi types shows.

I finally gave up posting about it because no one else seemed to share this issue.

-DonB2

Hi everyone. I currently live near Baltimore and I plan on moving to a house around Durham/Raleigh. It seems that most people in this forum use DISH or DirecTV for the HD service and such. Is Time Warner the only cable based provider and when will Verizon be in the area with FIOS? I just wanted to get some input from what is the best service down there since I should be moving soon.

thanks and I'll continue searching this huge forum thread.

Hi everyone. I currently live near Baltimore and I plan on moving to a house around Durham/Raleigh. It seems that most people in this forum use DISH or DirecTV for the HD service and such.

Actually, it's a good mixture on this board. :)


Is Time Warner the only cable based provider and when will Verizon be in the area with FIOS?

The answer is yes and don't know yet, respectively. TWC is the only cable game in town. If you go to Verizon's website, there's no definite date for FIOS in this area.


I just wanted to get some input from what is the best service down there since I should be moving soon.

That'll depend on your palate. I had TWC for my first 3 weeks here but I went to Directv b/c I've had them for the last 2 years and I also needed to make sure that I had good line of site to the satellites. People tend to like DISH but they don't have all of the HD locals for this area but those people also seem to have an antenna to supplement the missing hd locals. So, it all depends on what you're comfortable with.

Good luck with your move.

Hi everyone. I currently live near Baltimore and I plan on moving to a house around Durham/Raleigh. It seems that most people in this forum use DISH or DirecTV for the HD service and such. Is Time Warner the only cable based provider and when will Verizon be in the area with FIOS? I just wanted to get some input from what is the best service down there since I should be moving soon.I made the move from Baltimore to Raleigh about 25 years ago and haven't regretted it once.

Depends on what you want to be able to get. Just the networks satisfy me, and I can get them all including HD via QAM with a basic TWC connection.

Hi everyone. I currently live near Baltimore and I plan on moving to a house around Durham/Raleigh. It seems that most people in this forum use DISH or DirecTV for the HD service and such. Is Time Warner the only cable based provider and when will Verizon be in the area with FIOS? I just wanted to get some input from what is the best service down there since I should be moving soon.

thanks and I'll continue searching this huge forum thread.
Sadly, I don't think FiOS will be an option here...from what I've heard, this is AT&T territory, so we'll get U-Verse instead :( if fiber ever rolls out here. Here's hoping!

And my $.02: I have TWC because I'm in an apartment that faces east, but I would get D* if it were an option.

Sadly, I don't think FiOS will be an option here...from what I've heard, this is AT&T territory, so we'll get U-Verse instead :( if fiber ever rolls out here. Here's hoping!

See, that's the weird thing to me. Before I moved up here 3 months ago, I thought that At&t/Bellsouth was available all throughout the Triangle. I was wrong b/c in Raliegh it's At&t and here in Durham it is Verizon that has the franchise with the City of Durham. I wish AT&T was operating in Durham as I would get them for DSL instead this Verizon.


And my $.02: I have TWC because I'm in an apartment that faces east, but I would get D* if it were an option.

I'm renting a townhome in a apartment community and I have Directv. Before I moved up here when I was calling around checking on apartments I asked each place what direction the patio/bacolny of the available apts were facing. Since they knew why I was asking without me even saying, they would tell me if there were trees or something else blocking the line of site. That helped me narrow down my choices.

I made the move from Baltimore to Raleigh about 25 years ago and haven't regretted it once.

Depends on what you want to be able to get. Just the networks satisfy me, and I can get them all including HD via QAM with a basic TWC connection.

Seems that I would go with DISH since I don't see the need for local channels. What do people mean by local channels? Is that just the local news or ABC, NBC, etc etc? It seems that DISH offers these on their building part of their site. I just added the best package plus local channels plus HBO and Starz and it was only $68 a month. Thats cheap!

Also, what company offers the best internet service?

I'm looking forward to getting a job in that area but its just a matter of finding a hardware engineering one. Easier said than done.

"Seems that I would go with DISH since I don't see the need for local channels. What do people mean by local channels? Is that just the local news or ABC, NBC, etc etc? It seems that DISH offers these on their building part of their site. I just added the best package plus local channels plus HBO and Starz and it was only $68 a month. Thats cheap!
"

By locals we are talking ABC , NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS and also CW and MNT. And if you have a good antenna PAX/ION.

If you get Dish and for some reason can't pick up the Locals OTA with antenna . Then you will have to be happy with watching them in digital vs HD format via satellite.

At least that is how I understand it seeing as I don't have Dish.


Direct TV on the other hand now has the locals available in HD via the satellites but not sure about the sub multichannels for the locals.

TWC has locals in HD and also had the mutltichannel subchannels for them as foar as I know.


You can get TWC Highspeed Roadrunner, Free Longdistance digital phone, and Digipack 1000 and HD suite for around $126/month but no DVR.

Or a special right now on 2 of the 3 for $79.99 per month but not sure if that includes HD suite.

I am not promoting any of them by the way!!!

-DonB2

NBC Nightly News is now in HDTV, looks really good.

Some Local HD Channels Not Coming Through

Hi, I am on TWC using QAM to receive local channels in HD. I have not been able to get ABC and FOX since last weekend. I have rescanned the TV several times to no avail. Anybody else experiencing this? I am in the Durham area.

Thanks.

Just curious if anyone else using attic mounted antenna experienced any reception issues last night and this morning due to the storm passing thru.

I am told rain does not effect signal strength like it does with Satellite. So maybe it is just the leaves coming out on the trees or rain soaked roof.

5.1 typically is very good but not last night. 47 was very weak, and 11.1 acted up a few times this morning during the news.

-DonB2

Just curious if anyone else using attic mounted antenna experienced any reception issues last night and this morning due to the storm passing thru.

I am told rain does not effect signal strength like it does with Satellite.


My OTA signal went downhill fast when rain/storms were around. Both attic mount, and roof mount. Wind too. I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that their antenna was better at showing weather than a barometer. I agree.

There were even problems with WRAL (5.1) on the TWC QAM feed last night. Jericho was missing dialog for the first 20 or so minutes although the music track was there.

Just curious if anyone else using attic mounted antenna experienced any reception issues last night and this morning due to the storm passing thru.

I am told rain does not effect signal strength like it does with Satellite. So maybe it is just the leaves coming out on the trees or rain soaked roof.

5.1 typically is very good but not last night. 47 was very weak, and 11.1 acted up a few times this morning during the news.

-DonB2


No problems last night or this morning, even with WUNC.

There were even problems with WRAL (5.1) on the TWC QAM feed last night. Jericho was missing dialog for the first 20 or so minutes although the music track was there.

I don't think that was weather related, but I'm glad to hear you had that problem. I get HD via DirecTV, which, IIRC, is taking the off air feed of WRAL. I experienced the exact same problem last night with missing center channel audio during Jericho. Didn't come back in until about 22-25 minutes into the program.

-Matt

halljb ,

There is a poster on another AVS Forum that claims rain does not effect OTA tv signal. It can only effect SAT reception. And reason is the difference in wave length.

This poster says that if you are having OTA ATSC reception issues that it could be wind or moisture getting into your connections.

Maybe this is true but there was no wind - at least near me while I was having issues and I don't have any connections outside the house that could be effected by water.

I have my attic antenna adjusted between Chapel Hill and the Garner farm so not exactly pointing at either. It has worked good in this configuration-except for 17.1 - over the winter, but now that summer is fast approaching with the trees budding, I may find I continue to have issues.

-DonB2

I have had both roof mounted and attic antennas, and reception always drops for me when it's cloudy/rainy and especially windy (so that can eliminate moisture in connections). This is the same for the attic, and for the rooftop, at least in MY case.

My reception also changes when there are leaves on the trees, or not. Most of my issues are multi-path related, so perhaps it doesn't hurt the "signal", but it changes the reflections. Either way, it causes dropouts on my TV.

I switched to a HDHomerun for QAM via TWC for better consistency. I still get OTA on my bedroom set through a 4228 in the attic. This past storm that came through caused my reception of PBS to go away temporarily (receiving off the back of the 4228). It's back now.

My OTA signal went downhill fast when rain/storms were around. Both attic mount, and roof mount. Wind too. I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that their antenna was better at showing weather than a barometer. I agree.


I was picking up 8.1 from Greensboro area this morning during the rain. I usually can't get it.

" was picking up 8.1 from Greensboro area this morning during the rain. I usually can't get it."

Maybe atmospheric bounce??

-DonB2

You have to hand it to our host to be so thorough as to post this in advance:

"NOTICE: AVS Forum will be closed this Sunday between 2AM and 4AM ET in order to move to a new network center. The site will have a new IP assigned and as such you may lose access until your ISP updates the DNS cache. New IP will be 72.9.159.100"


:)

-DonB2

I experienced the exact same problem last night with missing center channel audio during Jericho. Didn't come back in until about 22-25 minutes into the program.Thanks. That makes me feel better since I had a gnawing suspicion there could have been a problem with my TV. ;)

Some Local HD Channels Not Coming Through

Hi, I am on TWC using QAM to receive local channels in HD. I have not been able to get ABC and FOX since last weekend. I have rescanned the TV several times to no avail. Anybody else experiencing this? I am in the Durham area.

Thanks.

I'm having this problem here too. I'm in North Raleigh. 11.1 and 50.1 are missing in action. I'm getting everything else. I'm using QAM also. Odd thing for me is that this just started today, around noon. I watched American Idol last night in HD on 50.1.

WRAL was still having audio problems tonight. No 5.1 audio during CSI or Shark. Center channel dialog was missing for the first 10 minutes or so. Problem observed OTA and via TW Cary. Very annoying. Kirk

I was about to post the same thing about the CBS 5.1. I knew I'd see another report here if it was widespread. :)

Just curious if anyone else using attic mounted antenna experienced any reception issues last night and this morning due to the storm passing thru.


Wow! A totally on-topic post! :)

I have a CM4228 in the attic, pointed at the antenna farm and connected to 2 LG 5th generation PCI tuners (AirStar-HD5000-PCI, and a DVICO Fusion5 Gold) in my MythTV box. For me, Wed's American Idol had a few minor glitches, however a PBS recording done at the same time had some major problems (remember I'm getting PBS off the back of my 4228). The Thurs 8am recording of This Old House / Ask This Old House from PBS had frequent minor glitches (far worse than Idol), but were quite watchable.

This was my first experience with leaves (or really buds), cloudy/rainy weather, and trying to get PBS off the back of the 4228. I think it was more the clouds (and the signal bouncing around, increasing multipath problems) than the rain, and it was just a little too much for even my 5th gen tuners. I'm still trying to decide if I want to fork over some cash and buy PBS its own tuner card..

BTW, can anybody with an HD-Homerun compare its reception to other tuners, or, better yet, tell me which demod chip it uses?

Thanks,
Drew

ABC11 and FOX50 are still missing via TW QAM on my SXRD. Everything else comes in. Anyone else having trouble tuning these via QAM on TW? CSI last night on 5.1 came in at Dolby Prologic II only. Bummer.

ABC11 and FOX50 are still missing via TW QAM on my SXRD. Everything else comes in. Anyone else having trouble tuning these via QAM on TW? CSI last night on 5.1 came in at Dolby Prologic II only. Bummer.

I have an SXRD as well. I'll check when I go home tonight.

ABC11 and FOX50 are still missing via TW QAM on my SXRD. Everything else comes in. Anyone else having trouble tuning these via QAM on TW? CSI last night on 5.1 came in at Dolby Prologic II only. Bummer.

Try hard tuning to 113.1 and 113.4.

Try hard tuning to 113.1 and 113.4.

That seems to work, thanks! Both channels are coming in at 720p. All the daytime programming looks terrible so I'll have to try it later tonight to see how a primetime show looks.

One question, how did you find out that 113.1 and 113.4 were ABC and FOX respectively?
**edit**
Found the answer buried in this thread about 50 pages back. Its odd that it suddenly changed on me. Whatever, so long as it works.

Wow! A totally on-topic post! :)
I have a CM4228 in the attic, pointed at the antenna farm and connected to 2 LG 5th generation PCI tuners (AirStar-HD5000-PCI, and a DVICO Fusion5 Gold) in my MythTV box. For me, Wed's American Idol had a few minor glitches, however a PBS recording done at the same time had some major problems (remember I'm getting PBS off the back of my 4228). The Thurs 8am recording of This Old House / Ask This Old House from PBS had frequent minor glitches (far worse than Idol), but were quite watchable.


Wow, I've got the exact same setup only a pair of HD5500's in the Mythbox. I've never been able to pull PBS off the back of my 4228 from the attic. are you using any verticle angle towards the towers?

Wow, I've got the exact same setup only a pair of HD5500's in the Mythbox. I've never been able to pull PBS off the back of my 4228 from the attic. are you using any verticle angle towards the towers?
No, no angle (that I remember, anyway). I found a really "sweet" spot in my attic, with the antenna sitting on my upstairs HVAC unit, and held vertical by twine thrown over the rafters. Its weird, in that my older nxt2002 Air2PC tuner didn't get WUNC at all, nor does the older LG tuner in my Zenith HDTV, but the newer LGDT3303 in my current tuner cards generally do quite well. I guess I'm just lucky :)

Is your case "noisy" in terms of EMI? I find that the card further away from my wireless card generally works a little bit better.. I was asking about the HD Homerun specifically because of that.

Drew

Wow, I've got the exact same setup only a pair of HD5500's in the Mythbox. I've never been able to pull PBS off the back of my 4228 from the attic. are you using any verticle angle towards the towers?

It probably varies widely by location, but where I am, the PBS tower and the garner ones are pretty much 180 from each other. This probably helps as I think the 4228 picks up better directly behind than off to the sides.

I have the backside of the antenna pointed at PBS, and the front side is off to the side of the main garner tower a bit (maybe 10-15 deg). I had to move the antenna right next to an outside wall on the PBS side. I can pull the garner stations from across most of the attic, but PBS needs to only have the single wall between the antenna and the tower. If I move it closest to the garner side wall, I lose PBS.

Good luck!

Wow! A totally on-topic post! :)

I have a CM4228 in the attic, pointed at the antenna farm and connected to 2 LG 5th generation PCI tuners (AirStar-HD5000-PCI, and a DVICO Fusion5 Gold) in my MythTV box. For me, Wed's American Idol had a few minor glitches, however a PBS recording done at the same time had some major problems (remember I'm getting PBS off the back of my 4228). The Thurs 8am recording of This Old House / Ask This Old House from PBS had frequent minor glitches (far worse than Idol), but were quite watchable.

This was my first experience with leaves (or really buds), cloudy/rainy weather, and trying to get PBS off the back of the 4228. I think it was more the clouds (and the signal bouncing around, increasing multipath problems) than the rain, and it was just a little too much for even my 5th gen tuners. I'm still trying to decide if I want to fork over some cash and buy PBS its own tuner card..

BTW, can anybody with an HD-Homerun compare its reception to other tuners, or, better yet, tell me which demod chip it uses?

Thanks,
Drew

Drew,
If PBS is off the back of your CM4228 it would make me think the issue is not multipath. What is your signal strength? Do you live in Apex? Cause PBS is off the back of my CM4228 too :).

I have an hdhomerun that I use with my Mythtv box. It seems roughly equivalent to the other two tuners I have used:
Panasonic th50px60u
Vizio HDTV50

I think philips makes the tuner for the Vizio, not sure about the Panny.

Salem

No, no angle (that I remember, anyway). I found a really "sweet" spot in my attic, with the antenna sitting on my upstairs HVAC unit, and held vertical by twine thrown over the rafters. Its weird, in that my older nxt2002 Air2PC tuner didn't get WUNC at all, nor does the older LG tuner in my Zenith HDTV, but the newer LGDT3303 in my current tuner cards generally do quite well. I guess I'm just lucky :)

Is your case "noisy" in terms of EMI? I find that the card further away from my wireless card generally works a little bit better.. I was asking about the HD Homerun specifically because of that.

Drew

Drew,
One very cool thing about the HDHR is how portable it is. I hooked it up at the office for NCAA/ACC in high def :). I was wondering myself how the tuners compare to a 5th gen LG. I would be willing to bring my HDHR by one night to check it out. Do you have an extra ethernet port near your coax :). PM me to setup a time.

PS: You have a bunch of tuners on your line. Do you use a pre-amp? I use a CM7777. I found that without it none of my tuners were reliable enough.

Salem

ABC11 and FOX50 are still missing via TW QAM on my SXRD. Everything else comes in. Anyone else having trouble tuning these via QAM on TW? CSI last night on 5.1 came in at Dolby Prologic II only. Bummer.

My ABC11 and FOX50 are mapped to both 11.1/113/1 and 50.1/113.4 respectively.

I'm going to be moving into an apartment in Durham soon right near Duke University. Being in an apartment, I don't think I'll have the ability to use a rooftop or outdoor antenna. I know indoor antennas are very finicky and hard to predict, but has anyone had any luck picking up OTA HD with an indoor antenna around Duke? Antennaweb says I'll be about 33 miles from the transmitters.

Is there a chance of an indoor antenna giving me decent signal strength from that distance or am I hosed?

PS: You have a bunch of tuners on your line. Do you use a pre-amp? I use a CM7777. I found that without it none of my tuners were reliable enough.


I actually have a +8db amplified 4-way splitter I bought at radio shack to amplify the cable signal a few years back. When I moved from TWC to OTA, I just moved the splitter from my cable jack to my antenna jack because I needed a splitter anyway... I know I'm doing things totally wrong, and am amplifying the noise as much as the signal, but things still seem to work pretty much OK.

Drew

Drew,
If PBS is off the back of your CM4228 it would make me think the issue is not multipath. What is your signal strength? Do you live in Apex? Cause PBS is off the back of my CM4228 too :).

Where I am (in Cary, sorta between the 54/Cary Pkwy and Evens & Maynard intersections), PBS is nearly 180 from the antenna farm, and I *think* the CM4228 is directional enough that the back is much stronger than the sides..

Unfortunately, the Linux drivers for the LG tuners do not support signal strength measurements. Back when I was using the nxt2002 based old Air2PC, I used the presence of signal strength data to be able to distinguish the nxt2002 based Air2PC from the Dvico Fusion..

Drew

Where I am (in Cary, sorta between the 54/Cary Pkwy and Evens & Maynard intersections), PBS is nearly 180 from the antenna farm, and I *think* the CM4228 is directional enough that the back is much stronger than the sides..

Unfortunately, the Linux drivers for the LG tuners do not support signal strength measurements. Back when I was using the nxt2002 based old Air2PC, I used the presence of signal strength data to be able to distinguish the nxt2002 based Air2PC from the Dvico Fusion..

Drew

I looked into this because I have the same situation where PBS is almost at 180 from 5/11/17 etc. I also have a CM4228. It looks like @180 the CM4228 has very low gain:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html
I have not heard of multipath being a big issue when the signal is so low. Maybe it is just weak signal?

Salem

@180 the CM4228 has very low gain <...>
I have not heard of multipath being a big issue when the signal is so low. Maybe it is just weak signal?

Thanks for making me look at that again. I misremembered the 4228's characteristics. Maybe it is a combination of low signal and multipath. If it was just signal strength, I'd expect my older tuners to perform nearly as well (or even better) than my newer tuners, since, at least for QAM, they require less signal. I wonder if things would get better if I were to use a preamp.

I'm still toying with the idea of throwing my nxt2002 based tuner back in, and hooking it to my silver sensor pointed at WUNC...

Drew