Hi,

I can't figure out why I am having so much trouble getting the unscrambled HD channels on my QAM tuner. I live in Raleigh and have the basic TW service. I have never been able to get 17.x or 4.x via cable, though I can get them over the air. Someone suggested removing all of the splitters and other boxes on the way to my tuner, and also an amplifier was recommended. I did all those things and now it's worse. Now I also can't get 22.1 and 28.1 after rescanning. I only ended up with 5.x, 11.x, and 50.x this time. What am I doing wrong?

Gregg

do you have any splitters in the way? I know that the low quality splitter will not pass the QAMs, this happened in a friend's house, the QAM only worked when he connected the TV straight to the wall. He had his modem and TV both fed from the same outlet in the living room.

worth checking...

I think someone also mentioned that the problem could be bad or old coax cable. Well, if old cable could explain things, then it might be true in my case. I don't know how old it is, but it's at least 15 years old. Have improvements been made in coax cable, or do they somehow wear out, or are there just different quality levels and mine might be a low-end cable? I'm pretty sure it must be the cable originally provided by TW when the previous owners lived in our house. If a coax cable upgrade is a plausible possibility for a solution to my problem, what type of coax should I buy and where can I get it at a reasonable price? I don't mind running the cable myself, but I'm not sure where to buy it at a good price and what quality level to look for.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks,

Gregg

If i'm not mistaken the cable has been changed from RG58 or RG59 to RG6 which is much better in terms of bandwidth and attenuation, all TV providers push/recommend/force the use of RG6, so an old cable issue does makes sense to me...

If a coax cable upgrade is a plausible possibility for a solution to my problem, what type of coax should I buy and where can I get it at a reasonable price? I don't mind running the cable myself, but I'm not sure where to buy it at a good price and what quality level to look for.


you can buy some Belden 1694 in spool form from Ram starting at about $70 for 100ft, or some terminated 1694A from Blue Jeans. Links to both sites are at the top of the page.

Time Warner continues to clean up their useless channels. Hopefully they'll replace them with something good soon.

February 25, 2008: Interactive service channels TWC Customer Care (Channel 590), TWC News and Info (Channel 591) and PassTime Games (Channel 592) will be removed.

Correction - Earthlink is no longer providing the ISP services for Embarq.


I've been a Sprint/Embarq DSL customer since it was first offered.

That is really great news. Since Sprint's physical DSL service was great when I used it, I think that there would be no reason Embarq will lower the quality of their DSL. However, I do not know if the analog phone service is still so abysmal that playing "Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing" would be less frustrating or if it has improved since Embarq was spun off. (No, I have never played that "game", but its reviews show that this is one of the worst video games ever written and sold.) It was so abysmal when we were Sprint customers that if my family was not locked into a contract with Dish Network from when we moved to an area very close to Clayton, NC, we probably would have switched to TWC's cable triple play. Now, if the DSL service does not deteriorate from its rock-solid reliability it had under Sprint's management mentioned in my earlier post, I could recommend Embarq's naked DSL, or possibly DSL bundled with phone if Embarq has started maintaining its analog phone equipment that has become unreliable under Sprint management due to lack of maintenance.

By the way, an earlier comment I wrote made me realize that I need to explain a few things below.

I generally support freedom of religion, but that support does not extend to organized crime rings that found cults designed to extract so much money from its members that they often go bankrupt, commit murders (search for "Lisa McPherson" if you don't believe me), try to frame its opponents for terrorism (search for "Paulette Cooper" and "Operation Freakout" if you don't believe me), and have tried to shut down sites that expose their scams and the follies of the religion they founded. Now, if I ever discover that someone is a Scientologist, I have to wonder if that person is a gangster or just someone who got fooled by these gangsters. Due to the Church of Scientology's attacks on Internet sites that expose this scam, I am forced to believe that a Scientologist working for any ISP has a conflict of interest.

:rolleyes:
I just read your post... that doesn't make it true.
TWC, D* and E* all compress to balance between quality and quantity. For every post you find stating quality is superior on one you'll find one stating the opposite.
DISH to me has the best quality HD picture out right now thanks to their newer MPEG4 codecs. D* has the best quantity and TWC would be my last choice. TWC does have great HD quality for CBS and FOX.

I'm pretty sure that was just posg posting under a pseudonym ;) :)

(just kidding)

If i'm not mistaken the cable has been changed from RG58 or RG59 to RG6 which is much better in terms of bandwidth and attenuation, all TV providers push/recommend/force the use of RG6, so an old cable issue does makes sense to me...

Hi shpitz,

That's a good point. I don't know if the cable in my attic is RG59, but if it is, perhaps upgrading will help. Where is the best place to buy RG6 at a reasonable price? Can I just go to Radio Shack or Lowes? I will probably need a few hundred feet. Thanks,

Gregg

you can buy some Belden 1694 in spool form from Ram starting at about $70 for 100ft, or some terminated 1694A from Blue Jeans. Links to both sites are at the top of the page.

Hi VisionOn,

I am fairly new to this, so I have never heard of Belden 1694. Is that some type of super high quality coax cable? Perhaps it is worth it, but $70 for 100ft sounds pretty expensive to me, since I would probably need 200 or 300 ft if I want to replace all the cable. Is it significantly better than RG6? Thanks,

Gregg

Long time TWC customer using Media Center. Sick of only being able to record the locals (unencrypted QAM). Considering a TivoHD.

Anyone have a list of which channels are copy protected and thus blocked for TivoToGo transfers? Is it only premiums like HBO, or are standard tier channels like ESPNHD and TNTHD also copy protected? If ESPN can't be transferred to my computer/Zune/etc then I'll just get a lousy DVR from TWC and not bother with the Tivo.
Nobody?

In a similar vein, does anyone know if it's possible to get CableCards from a TWC branch office, or do I really have to pay $45 for a tech to come out and have me explain to him how to do his job?

Hi VisionOn,

I am fairly new to this, so I have never heard of Belden 1694. Is that some type of super high quality coax cable? Perhaps it is worth it, but $70 for 100ft sounds pretty expensive to me, since I would probably need 200 or 300 ft if I want to replace all the cable. Is it significantly better than RG6? Thanks,

Gregg
1694 is the model # of Belden's best RG6-style coax cable.

Hi VisionOn,

I am fairly new to this, so I have never heard of Belden 1694. Is that some type of super high quality coax cable? Perhaps it is worth it, but $70 for 100ft sounds pretty expensive to me, since I would probably need 200 or 300 ft if I want to replace all the cable. Is it significantly better than RG6? Thanks,

Gregg

I think that whoever wrote Belden 1694 meant Belden 1694A. There are three varieties of Belden 1694 cable, all of which claim that they are RG6 or RG6/U. 1694A is apparently a good dual shield cable. 1694AF is a stranded version of 1694A. It seems to not transmit signals as well as 1694A, but probably will be less fragile to frequent bending due to its stranding. 1694SB is the kind used when you need to wire up some sort of boat or ship, but I doubt anyone would have any boats around here that need wiring for HDTV, and if they did, there would be nowhere for them to float in around here due to the drought.

I am not an electrician or cable TV technician, so I do not know what is special about Belden 1694A.

Hi shpitz,

That's a good point. I don't know if the cable in my attic is RG59, but if it is, perhaps upgrading will help. Where is the best place to buy RG6 at a reasonable price? Can I just go to Radio Shack or Lowes? I will probably need a few hundred feet. Thanks,

Gregg

You can get RG6 Quad Shield at Lowes or Home Depot.

I'm pretty sure that was just posg posting under a pseudonym ;) :)

(just kidding)

Isn't it funny I thought the same thing. :D:D:D

Hi shpitz,

That's a good point. I don't know if the cable in my attic is RG59, but if it is, perhaps upgrading will help. Where is the best place to buy RG6 at a reasonable price? Can I just go to Radio Shack or Lowes? I will probably need a few hundred feet. Thanks,

Gregg

check monoprice.com. i think they usually carry a 1000 ft spool of quad shield RG6 for $70 or $80.

I am fairly new to this, so I have never heard of Belden 1694. Is that some type of super high quality coax cable? Perhaps it is worth it, but $70 for 100ft sounds pretty expensive to me, since I would probably need 200 or 300 ft if I want to replace all the cable. Is it significantly better than RG6? Thanks,


The problem with the majority of the RG6 cables you find at Home Depot and Monoprice etc. is that they are all basically the same type of cheap cable. Low braid shielding and copper clad steel conductor. It's adequate stuff, no more no less. If you plan to wire a whole house you should be looking for well shielded cable with the best signal transfer ability. You don't need solid copper for cable but it will help and if you use the cable run for another purpose in the future it might come in useful.

We are going off topic here so in summary, Belden are well respected cable manufacturers, 1694A is a good place to start looking at their line - copper conductor, 95% braid shield. If you need plenum cable for ducts etc. then 1695 (If I remember correctly) will do the trick.

There should be plenty of discussion somewhere on AVS maybe searching in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=36

Will get some results. I've seen this same question occur a few times, but again I can't remember where. :rolleyes:

Google topics like copper clad, RG6, coax braid shielding and that should fill you in on what type of cable to look for.

I'm pretty sure that was just posg posting under a pseudonym ;) :)

(just kidding)

sorry, nope....

@ jnv11: I appreciate your posts.
@ Richard Berg: you might want to reconsider Tivo in light of SDV

I am a current TWC customer paying about $125/month for cable and TV. I find myself watching mostly channels I apparently can get OTA. Furthermore, I have a Tivo S3 and with TWC moving more and more channels to SDV I am ready to dump them. I am also a big XBX Live gamer and was highly intrigued by jnv11's post regarding cable vs. DSL for gaming. This was new to me. Are there more references out there confirming this notion? I live close to Northgate mall (ZIP 27713) and was wondering if there is a preferred DSL provider. I appreciate all suggestions.

Nobody?

In a similar vein, does anyone know if it's possible to get CableCards from a TWC branch office, or do I really have to pay $45 for a tech to come out and have me explain to him how to do his job?

TWC doesn't allow you to pick up the cards. Furthermore, the #@$@ of an engineer that came out to my house had absolutely no clue how to do the install. I ended up doing it myself with a -rare- knowledgeable TWC engineer on the phone. I'm not sure if they made me pay the $45 but recent posts on the Tivo Community Store forums suggest they might even charge you $45 per card.

I sure wish Fox News Channel was HD here on TWC. I would gladly exchange The Food Network for Bill O'Rielly in HD :)

How long should I hold my breath?

I sure wish Fox News Channel was HD here on TWC. I would gladly exchange The Food Network for Bill O'Rielly in HD :)

How long should I hold my breath?

You might be holding your breath for a good while since its corporate owner hasn't announced any concrete plans for its launch, yet. Only Fox Business is currently available in HD.

I'm getting "To receive this channel, call Customer Care at 1-866-4-TWC-N" after about a minute of watching WRAL HD channel 255 - anyone else seeing this tonight?

[EDIT] seems to be happening on all channels. Time for a reboot and to open another ticket with TWC.

I'm getting "To receive this channel, call Customer Care at 1-866-4-TWC-N" after about a minute of watching WRAL HD channel 255 - anyone else seeing this tonight?

[EDIT] seems to be happening on all channels. Time for a reboot and to open another ticket with TWC.

I've only just switched on the TV, but they seem okay here.

Hi,

I have basic TW cable service and I have trouble getting some of the unencrypted local HD channels. When I scan for channels on our main TV (which is a Samsung LN-T4669F), I always get 5.x, 11.x, and 50.x, but I have never been able to get 4.x or 17.x. At first I thought these signals might be the weakest and that the problem might be the length of the cable run or the quality of the cable in our house, but there are a few things that make me wonder if my tuner is at fault:

1. I have re-scanned many times. Once in a while I find 22.x and 28.x, but usually I do not.

2. The lesser quality TV in our bedroom (Samsung LN-T4061F) is able to find all 7 of the unencrypted local HD channels.

3. The length of cable to the bedroom is shorter, so I moved the 4669 from the living room to the bedroom and scanned there. The first time I scanned, it found all but 17.x -- I should have stopped there. I scanned again and this time it did not find 17.x or 4.x, and another scan left me with only the usual 5.x, 11.x, and 50.x. The results kept getting worse each time I scanned.

Should different scans pick up different subsets of the channels? Does the time of day matter? Maybe it is more difficult to find weak channels when network traffic in the neighborhood is heavy (i.e. when more people are using their cable).

I have only tried scanning once on the 4061, but since I found all the unencrypted local HD channels, I sure don't want to lose them by re-scanning.

If the time of day does not matter, and if the 4061 found all the channels, is there any reason (other than bad hardware) that the 4669 should not find those same channels when attached to the exact same cable connection? The xx69 series is supposedly better than the xx61 series, so I assume the tuner in the 4669 should be the same or better than the tuner in the 4061.

Should I call Samsung and ask them to send out a technician? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,

Gregg

Here's a mystery that I would love to hear explained:

Although Fox 50.1, WRAZ-DT (frequency assignment 49) is only 17.6 miles from my rooftop UHF Yagi antenna pointed directly at it (I live in Cary) and its tower is next to the strongest station I receive, WRAL, I get a weaker signal from it than I do from Fox 8.1, WGHP, which according to AntennaWeb.org is nearly 60 miles away, in the wrong direction for my antenna, and is VHF, to boot! EDIT: Despite what Antennaweb said, WGHP is not VHF yet; it's on slot 35 for now.

I am getting dropouts on Fox 50.1 but not on Fox 8.1. What gives? Is Fox 50 transmitting at much lower power?

Jim, thanks a lot for the info. Also, thanks very much for the antennas you very graciously gave away. I was a happy and grateful recipient of one and can report it is working very well. WRAL's effort in this regard far surpassed anything any other station I know of has done.

Here's a mystery that I would love to hear explained:

Although Fox 50.1, WRAZ-DT (frequency assignment 49) is only 17.6 miles from my rooftop UHF Yagi antenna pointed directly at it (I live in Cary) and its tower is next to the strongest station I receive, WRAL, I get a weaker signal from it than I do from Fox 8.1, WGHP, which according to AntennaWeb.org is nearly 60 miles away, in the wrong direction for my antenna, and is VHF, to boot!

I am getting dropouts on Fox 50.1 but not on Fox 8.1. What gives? Is Fox 50 transmitting at much lower power?

If you have a strong signal but visual artifacts it often is a multipath issue. For example if you have buildings close to your antenna reflecting the signal. It may be beneficial to point your antenna slightly away from the strong signal. This could drop the competing reflection's intensity while still having enough signal strength for the main signal.

If you have a strong signal but visual artifacts it often is a multipath issue. For example if you have buildings close to your antenna reflecting the signal. It may be beneficial to point your antenna slightly away from the strong signal. This could drop the competing reflection's intensity while still having enough signal strength for the main signal.

The signal meter on my LG TV reads lower for the closer station than for the much farther station. I don't know if this measures strength or SNR, with or without multipath considerations. I've turned the antenna a bit to experiment but I still have issues with the closer station. I'd like to avoid getting a rotor so I want to find an optimal orientation for all of the signals coming from the Clayton-area antenna cluster.

There are other homes in the area but not in my direct path. I don't have droput issues with the sister station WRAL, which I believe is on the same antenna tower or at least the same antenna cluster, and comes in with the strongest signal.

Time for some speculation.

So, lets look at what channels are up for renegotiation with TWC Raleigh, and what HD channels are getting announced around the US by other markets.

From the change change page:

WCTI, WRAL, WRAZ, A&E, Biography, USA, Starz/Encore, Game Show Network, Hallmark, History Channel, Showtime/The Movie Channel, Weather Channel

I have seen A&E HD, Hallmark HD, Weather Channel HD, History HD, and Starz HD all around the US in other TWC markets. USA HD is one a lot of people have been begging for, so perhaps that one gets thrown in too. So, my prediction for our next batch of channels is A&E, Hallmark, Weather, and History. Starz if you subscribe to that of course.

Time for some speculation.


I have seen A&E HD, Hallmark HD, Weather Channel HD, History HD, and Starz HD all around the US in other TWC markets. USA HD is one a lot of people have been begging for, so perhaps that one gets thrown in too. So, my prediction for our next batch of channels is A&E, Hallmark, Weather, and History. Starz if you subscribe to that of course.


We've had A&E HD for several months now...

We've had A&E HD for several months now...

Oops, was mxing up A&E and Bio (not that we'd get bio).

Here's a mystery that I would love to hear explained:

Although Fox 50.1, WRAZ-DT (frequency assignment 49) is only 17.6 miles from my rooftop UHF Yagi antenna pointed directly at it (I live in Cary) and its tower is next to the strongest station I receive, WRAL, I get a weaker signal from it than I do from Fox 8.1, WGHP, which according to AntennaWeb.org is nearly 60 miles away, in the wrong direction for my antenna, and is VHF, to boot! EDIT: Despite what Antennaweb said, WGHP is not VHF yet; it's on slot 35 for now.

I am getting dropouts on Fox 50.1 but not on Fox 8.1. What gives? Is Fox 50 transmitting at much lower power?

Sometimes, radio signals are so strong that the receiving radio's circuits are overdriven. It is possible that you may be in this situation. For example, the data sheet for the Motorola SB5101 cable modem we are renting from Time Warner Cable mentions that it can handle downstream power levels from -15dBmV to 15 dbmV. The downstream power level it reads is about 10.8 dBmV. Therefore, adding a cable amplifier would make the signal too strong for it to handle and might fry its QAM decoder. I am wondering if you need to deliberately misaim to get the signal weak enough for your 8VSB decoder in your television or set top box to handle it. If your antenna is amplified, try turning down the amplification.

@ jnv11: I appreciate your posts.
@ Richard Berg: you might want to reconsider Tivo in light of SDV

I am a current TWC customer paying about $125/month for cable and TV. I find myself watching mostly channels I apparently can get OTA. Furthermore, I have a Tivo S3 and with TWC moving more and more channels to SDV I am ready to dump them. I am also a big XBX Live gamer and was highly intrigued by jnv11's post regarding cable vs. DSL for gaming. This was new to me. Are there more references out there confirming this notion? I live close to Northgate mall (ZIP 27713) and was wondering if there is a preferred DSL provider. I appreciate all suggestions.

Stay away from FastAccess DSL. Sure, your latency will be lower, but you be getting email service many ISPs firewall off due to the presence of spammers, bad technical support from India, and some NSA espionage thrown in for good measure.

However, BellSouth/AT&T local landline service has no rival when it comes to local land line reliability in this area.

One piece of advice is that TWC will probably have to move to DOCSIS 3.0 once IPv6 becomes popular or forced on us due to running out of the current IPv4 addresses. DOCSIS versions below 3.0 only support IPv4, while DOCSIS 3.0 supports IPv6. DOCSIS 2.0 introduced much better upstream modulations than DOCSIS 1.1 that cut overhead (which is a type of latency) and also are more immune to noise (which cuts latency caused by lost packets needing retransmission), but cable companies do not want to upgrade because it obsoletes the old DOCSIS 1.1 modems in the field that still run well. They generally deploy DOCSIS 2.0 in new deployments. DOCSIS 3.0 includes the upstream modulation schemes introduced in DOCSIS 2.0 and adds channel bonding. Therefore, if you stay long enough with TWC, the latency situation may improve, but how long you have to wait until TWC has to start converting everyone to DOCSIS 3.0 is an open question.

Stay away from FastAccess DSL. Sure, your latency will be lower, but you be getting email service many ISPs firewall off due to the presence of spammers, bad technical support from India, and some NSA espionage thrown in for good measure.

One caveat to this, I've convinced myself I need to start making my email addr independent of my broadband provider so that I am not locked in and can be more nimble in adjusting to who offers the better deal. Do that (ie. use google, yahoo, hotmail, get your own domain) and I suspect(?) the email issues would be a non-factor. I'm sure there are downsides to this as well :) But if you are already in the process of disrupting your email addr, might consider going to one that is carrier-independent.

Mike

The signal meter on my LG TV reads lower for the closer station than for the much farther station. I don't know if this measures strength or SNR, with or without multipath considerations. I've turned the antenna a bit to experiment but I still have issues with the closer station. I'd like to avoid getting a rotor so I want to find an optimal orientation for all of the signals coming from the Clayton-area antenna cluster.

There are other homes in the area but not in my direct path. I don't have droput issues with the sister station WRAL, which I believe is on the same antenna tower or at least the same antenna cluster, and comes in with the strongest signal.

Ah, I misunderstood your situation. That is odd that the signal meeter is lower for the closer station. It could possibly be attributed to lower transmit power... but I doubt it. Honestly it sounds like you are aiming the wrong way. But I am definitely NOT an RF expert. I just fiddle with it till it works :). You are roof mounted right? If you were attic mounted I would suggest moving the antenna on the order of feet. Good luck, keep us posted!
Salem

One caveat to this, I've convinced myself I need to start making my email addr independent of my broadband provider so that I am not locked in and can be more nimble in adjusting to who offers the better deal. Do that (ie. use google, yahoo, hotmail, get your own domain) and I suspect(?) the email issues would be a non-factor. I'm sure there are downsides to this as well :) But if you are already in the process of disrupting your email addr, might consider going to one that is carrier-independent.

Mike

Nope. You will still feel bad for supporting spammers and the organizations that either turn a blind eye to it or are in cahoots with these filth-spewers. Also, remember that the AT&T intercepts all traffic that goes through its network and sends a copy of it all to the NSA. See Wikipedia's article about Room 641A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A) for a summary of this illegal espionage.

Thanks all.

I had my Tivo S3 working this weekend with a $30 RadioShack antenna. Crystal clear picture for all the OTA HD channels. Nevertheless, after realizing how many other HD channels I'll be missing I might suck it up and keep TWC for tv afterall. After doing a new Guided Setup on the Tivo I discovered several new (to me) HD channels were available (NGC, A&E, Food, ESPN, ESPN2). I really thought they had those already moved to SDV. Apparently not (yet).

Although off-topic, I still am highly intrigued in the cable vs DSL for gaming discussions. Now, is there a possibility that my latency will improve (gets less) if I just upgrade my cable modem? The current Motorola one is probably like 7 years old. A PM would be great not to dilute this thread.

Thanks all.

I had my Tivo S3 working this weekend with a $30 RadioShack antenna. Crystal clear picture for all the OTA HD channels. Nevertheless, after realizing how many other HD channels I'll be missing I might suck it up and keep TWC for tv afterall. After doing a new Guided Setup on the Tivo I discovered several new (to me) HD channels were available (NGC, A&E, Food, ESPN, ESPN2). I really thought they had those already moved to SDV. Apparently not (yet).

Although off-topic, I still am highly intrigued in the cable vs DSL for gaming discussions. Now, is there a possibility that my latency will improve (gets less) if I just upgrade my cable modem? The current Motorola one is probably like 7 years old. A PM would be great not to dilute this thread.

Getting a new modem will not really help, because TWC is stuck with DOCSIS 1.1 until every modem is replaced, and it makes no sense to upgrade to DOCSIS 2.0 now because DOCSIS 3.0 is around the corner. Latency can only improve if TWC upgrades its DOCSIS protocol version. They know that they will need to upgrade to DOCSIS 3.0 because previous DOCSIS versions cannot support IPv6, and would rather wait to upgrade to that standard if they had any sense in their minds.

One way to reduce latency is to check your house's wiring. Loose connections, splitters between the modem and the main splitter/amplifier combo unit, and cables that have gotten damaged will increase your latency because all of these factors will corrupt your transmissions, forcing the detection of lost packets and the retransmission of them. After I got rid of a splitter in the attic which split the connection going to the cable modem to accomodate a few bedrooms including mine, latency improved dramatically. Apparently, the splitter was weakening the signal enough it wound up getting corrupted when it reached the cable head end.

I dislike PMs because they tend to be vehicles for trolls to send personal attacks or spammers to spew their filth on the rare occasions I do get PMs on other forums (I never have gotten a PM here). I feel that they break the function of these forums by hiding potentially embarrassing posts. I feel that if you want to say something, be sure others can review it and point out your post's problems. For example, my post about Embarq subcontracting out to Earthlink needed to be shot down. If I sent a PM, I would have been feeding someone a load of unintentional ********.

My HDC box rebooted again this morning. Nothing new, however:


I emailed TWC and copied the Town of Cary at 7:10am.
Got a response from the Town of Cary at 8:07am and they copied the right people at TWC here.
TWC tech called at 9:23 to setup a swap out to the "old" box, we agreed to meet at my house at 11am. I got there right at 11 and the tech was already there waiting for me.
By 11:10 I had an 8300HD. With Passport.


According to the TWC guys I talked to today the reboot problems are caused by the OCAP software and there's a new version being pushed out tonight. Also, I'll get Navigator again when that is pushed out soon.

(Also - I scored a Wii at Walmart today. It's a good day so far.)

Also, I'll get Navigator again when that is pushed out soon.



And did they have any idea when that might be? It's been deployed in several other TWC markets yesterday and today. This note from today's N&O makes it seem like it could be either really soon or still a good ways away.

TWC channel shake-up

A handful of peeved Time Warner Cable customers have contacted The News & Observer since last Tuesday, confused about some changes in the channel lineup.

For those of you who are still wondering what's up, here's the skinny.

C-SPAN is no longer on channel 59. It is now on channel 5 in Raleigh, Knightdale, Wendell, Zebulon, Wake Forest, Youngsville and Cary. It is on channel 9 in Garner and Selma.

Channel 59 is the new home of HGTV (which used to be on channel 76) in all those areas except Durham, Chapel Hill and Carrboro, where HGTV is now on channel 52.

ShopNBC is no longer on channel 64 in any of the aforementioned areas. It is now on channel 20 in Raleigh, Knightdale, Wendell, Zebulon, Wake Forest and Youngsville. ShopNBC is on channel 19 in Cary; on channel 17 in Garner and Selma; and channel 1 in Durham, Chapel Hill and Carrboro.

Cartoon Network has moved from channel 75 to channel 64 in all of those viewing areas.

That leaves channels 75 and 76 conspicuously vacant. So what gives?

Time Warner spokeswoman Melissa Buscher says the channels were moved as part of a plan to put more high-definition channels on the Time Warner menu soon.

"[Channels] 75 and 76 are going away, and they're not going to be back," Buscher says. "Once we finish the updating of our technology, they will be replaced with new HD programming. It's all part of trying to reclaim bandwidth."

And did they have any idea when that might be? It's been deployed in several other TWC markets yesterday and today. This note from today's N&O makes it seem like it could be either really soon or still a good ways away.


I thought I read here or on the Navigator forum the rollout starts this Friday.

I thought I read here or on the Navigator forum the rollout starts this Friday.

Wasn't here but just found it on the Navigator forum that a tech said it would start here on Friday the 29th. Some folks in the area have evidently been getting brochures in the mail warning them about it coming. Anybody here get the brochure?

Wasn't here but just found it on the Navigator forum that a tech said it would start here on Friday the 29th. Some folks in the area have evidently been getting brochures in the mail warning them about it coming. Anybody here get the brochure?

I guess it is time to find out if I am going to lose my recordings. If anyone got the brochure, does it say anything about that?

I guess it is time to find out if I am going to lose my recordings. If anyone got the brochure, does it say anything about that?


Just found the brochure on the Navigator forum. Here it is: http://download.yousendit.com/381E3E61776C8557

Lots of interesting stuff in there. It appears the end is very near. One of the things it says is the customer care, games and news channels will not be available on the new system and TWC removed those from our system today.

They even acknowledge that the deployment erases some recordings but the more space you have available on your DVR the better. My guess is that they have to download the install to your drive and thus if you don't have enough space they erase some recordings. Even acknowledges the use of external hard drives.

For what it's worth most people on the San Diego forum have reported that they DID NOT lose their recordings when they got the push yesterday and today.

Just found the brochure on the Navigator forum. Here it is: http://download.yousendit.com/381E3E61776C8557

Lots of interesting stuff in there. It appears the end is very near. One of the things it says is the customer care, games and news channels will not be available on the new system and TWC removed those from our system today.

They even acknowledge that the deployment erases some recordings but the more space you have available on your DVR the better. My guess is that they have to download the install to your drive and thus if you don't have enough space they erase some recordings. Even acknowledges the use of external hard drives.

For what it's worth most people on the San Diego forum have reported that they DID NOT lose their recordings when they got the push yesterday and today.

Well, thanks for the quick reply. I will try to clean up some big recordings, reboot the box as that usually frees some space. I had it fill up even though I hadn't changed the recordings I had.

Hopefully things will go smoothly.

Digital Simulcast for Cablecards is here!!!! Check your S3/THD's. Im getting digital for channels under 74!! Will see how long it lasts.... CCI is 0x02 though.... no more MRV. Looking at my recorded stuff it looks like it started on the 25th.

Digital Simulcast for Cablecards is here!!!! Check your S3/THD's. Im getting digital for channels under 74!! Will see how long it lasts.... CCI is 0x02 though.... no more MRV. Looking at my recorded stuff it looks like it started on the 25th.

That's almost enough for me to go ahead and pay for the cards and digital cable. I just wish the S3 could use one multistream card instead of needing two single stream cards.

That's almost enough for me to go ahead and pay for the cards and digital cable. I just wish the S3 could use one multistream card instead of needing two single stream cards.

Yeah... MCard would be real nice...

Just checked again... still digital... Hopefully the switch was intentional and not a mistake that they may detect. When I first saw it on my S3, I checked the THD downstairs and it still was analog. I rebooted the THD and found it still analog and then about 10 mins later it went digital..... perhaps picked up a new channel map. Digital happiness :)

If it switches back to analog... I will post to that effect.

That's almost enough for me to go ahead and pay for the cards and digital cable. I just wish the S3 could use one multistream card instead of needing two single stream cards.

I changed my mind. I see that TWC Durham doesn't yet carry SciFi HD or USA HD. It's not worth another $17 a month without those. Oh well. I'll wait.

All,

Just Visited the site for the first time in a while.

I can confirm that it does appear that TWC is broadcasting digitally via the cablecard and the Tivo. I have a TivoHD with 1 MCard. It does appear that recordings made after 2/25 do not allow downloads or transfers. That's great from a signal standpoint, however it does make the Tivo Desktop and my transfer to my Iphone impossible except for local channels.

Luckly I still have a Tivo Series 2 for that purpose for now.

I changed my mind. I see that TWC Durham doesn't yet carry SciFi HD or USA HD. It's not worth another $17 a month without those. Oh well. I'll wait.

To true, I have HD and I'm still anxiously waiting for these to show up. I'm seriously starting to consider the switch to dish.

Anybody noticing limited guide data? My 8300 is only showing guide data out to Tuesday. Moving the guide forward gives the normal "loading guide data" but it never does.

Anybody noticing limited guide data? My 8300 is only showing guide data out to Tuesday. Moving the guide forward gives the normal "loading guide data" but it never does.

I can go through Sunday the 9th on my 8300HD.

Jim

Lately, I have had pixeling on TWC channels 255, 256 and 257. These are the ONLY channels that this occurs. I would think that if I had a weak signal, it would happen on other HD channels also. Is anyone else having this problem?

Lately, I have had pixeling on TWC channels 255, 256 and 257. These are the ONLY channels that this occurs. I would think that if I had a weak signal, it would happen on other HD channels also. Is anyone else having this problem?

I am currently without TWC, but I am going to go out on a limb and guess that those are Food, HG, and National Geo? If so, then the problem is that they are still on the same SDV slot, and are bandwidth starved. If not, well, then ignore this :)

I am currently without TWC, but I am going to go out on a limb and guess that those are Food, HG, and National Geo? If so, then the problem is that they are still on the same SDV slot, and are bandwidth starved. If not, well, then ignore this :)

255 is WRAL-HD

Last summer I was an employee at the local computer shop, and upon visiting yesterday, I was told that they had been receiving questions about the digital transition. I'm attempting to put together a document to help explain it, and I'm going to include a list of stations receivable in the county and their subchannels. Can someone provide me with an updated list of subchannels for the Raleigh stations? I've not been able to DX recently to find out first-hand.

Thanks.

- Trip

I am experiencing a problem with WRAZ 50.1 in which the picture appears "jumpy". It's almost like it pauses randomly. The sound always comes in fine. I can be watching a show and it may last for a couple of minutes, and then everything will go back to normal. Sometimes the commercials do it, sometimes they don't. The only time I watch this channel is in the evenings between 5PM and 8PM.

According to tvfool.com, I'm about 67 miles from the tower. 50.2 and 50.3 don't have this problem. I also do not have a problem with WRAL, WRDC, WLFL, WTVD, or WNCN.

Any ideas as to how I can fix this?

I am experiencing a problem with WRAZ 50.1 in which the picture appears "jumpy".
<...>
50.2 and 50.3 don't have this problem

I think it is because they are doing something "fancy" with their encoder for syndicated shows. I watch the weekly "24" reruns, and they also have this problem. At least in the case of "24", they seem to be using some encoding extension which tries to put roughly 45fps into a 60fps stream. It gives my DVR fits. I wonder if there is somebody we could complain to... I'll try emailing WRAL, since they are the sister station and are very responsive.

Drew

Last summer I was an employee at the local computer shop, and upon visiting yesterday, I was told that they had been receiving questions about the digital transition. I'm attempting to put together a document to help explain it, and I'm going to include a list of stations receivable in the county and their subchannels. Can someone provide me with an updated list of subchannels for the Raleigh stations? I've not been able to DX recently to find out first-hand.

Thanks.

- Trip
Stations I get
WRAL 5.1 , 5.2 (newschannel)
WTVD 11.1. 11.2 weather radar, 11.3 weather channel
WNCN 17.1, 17.2 (SD), 17.3 weather channel
WLFL 22.1
WRDC 28.1
WUNP 36.1-36.5
WRAY 30.1
WRPX 47.1 ion, .2 QUBO, .3 ion life, .4 Worship
WRAZ 50.1. 50.2 RTN, 50.3 WRAL Weatherchannel
WUNC 4.1-4.5 (I don't usually aim my rotor off this direction, since I put a dedicated antenna towards Roanoke Rapids)
There's something on 40.1 and 40.2 (spanish)

Stations I get
WRAL 5.1 , 5.2 (newschannel)
WTVD 11.1. 11.2 weather radar, 11.3 weather channel
WNCN 17.1, 17.2 (SD), 17.3 weather channel
WLFL 22.1
WRDC 28.1
WUNP 36.1-36.5
WRAY 30.1
WRPX 47.1 ion, .2 QUBO, .3 ion life, .4 Worship
WRAZ 50.1. 50.2 RTN, 50.3 WRAL Weatherchannel
WUNC 4.1-4.5 (I don't usually aim my rotor off this direction, since I put a dedicated antenna towards Roanoke Rapids)
There's something on 40.1 and 40.2 (spanish)

What are on the 36-2 through 36-5 subchannels? I recall they used to do PBS Kids and PBS You and APB during the day and PBS-HD at night, but since PBS Kids and PBS You no longer exist (to my knowledge), I need to know the current layout of subchannels.

Thanks. =)

- Trip

What are on the 36-2 through 36-5 subchannels? I recall they used to do PBS Kids and PBS You and APB during the day and PBS-HD at night, but since PBS Kids and PBS You no longer exist (to my knowledge), I need to know the current layout of subchannels.

Thanks. =)

- Trip

WUNC - .1 SD, .2 HD 8-11 PM only, .3 Kids, .4 ED .5 NC, .100 I've never seen anything on it. I think .4 and .5 sign off when .2 is on, otherwise it's .3 and .4

Stations I get
WRAL 5.1 , 5.2 (newschannel)
WTVD 11.1. 11.2 weather radar, 11.3 weather channel
WNCN 17.1, 17.2 (SD), 17.3 weather channel
WLFL 22.1
WRDC 28.1
WUNP 36.1-36.5
WRAY 30.1
WRPX 47.1 ion, .2 QUBO, .3 ion life, .4 Worship
WRAZ 50.1. 50.2 RTN, 50.3 WRAL Weatherchannel
WUNC 4.1-4.5 (I don't usually aim my rotor off this direction, since I put a dedicated antenna towards Roanoke Rapids)
There's something on 40.1 and 40.2 (spanish)

Channel 40 is WUVC, which is a Univision owned and operated station. 40.1 is a Univision channel, while 40.2 is a TeleFutura channel AFAIK. I think both are 480i, but I do not have an antenna nor an ATSC decoder. I am a Time Warner Cable subscriber.

Channel 40 is WUVC, which is a Univision owned and operated station. 40.1 is a Univision channel, while 40.2 is a TeleFutura channel AFAIK. I think both are 480i, but I do not have an antenna nor an ATSC decoder. I am a Time Warner Cable subscriber.
Yes, their 480i.

Looks like Time Warner and WRAL will once again be making all the OTAers all there happy during the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. I guess it doesn't say no OTA HD but if they do like in years past.... Interesting channel numbers too... I guess TWC has some addition bandwith now to be carry 4 extra HD channels... SDV?


Time Warner Cable is proud to team up with WRAL to bring EVERY GAME of the men's NCAA Tournament AT NO EXTRA CHARGE to Digital Cable subscribers. And every game will also be available in stunning High Definition!

Tournament games will be shown on these channels:
Standard Definition: 1061-1064
High Definition: 1051-1054

Anyone else having more problems picking up 28.1 OTA in the last couple of weeks?

I remember reading a couple of weeks back where both 22 and 28 were off the air for a short time... I missed that, but shortly after reading about that I noticed that 28.1 is harder for me to get all of a sudden.

Not that signal meters mean much... but without me doing anything, my signal level dropped from 95-100 to 70-75 and frequent breakups on 28.1 OTA. Since I've done nothing and it was a sudden change, I was wondering if perhaps 28.1 equipment was cannibalized to get 22.1 back on the air at full strength and now 28.1 is perhaps not at full power?

Anyone else having more problems picking up 28.1 OTA in the last couple of weeks?

Comes in fine for me (28.1 is at 94/Good), but 17.1 is a bit on/off at times. I think it depends on where you happen to be and what may be causing interference/reflections. You might be able to repoint your antenna and improve things a bit.

Good Luck!

I can go through Sunday the 9th on my 8300HD.

Jim


Interesting.... I am still getting only one day of future guide data. It seems to get one future day as every day passes. My 3250HD downstairs has the full week of data. Its just the 8300 that doesnt. Rebooting makes no difference. hmmmm.. wonder what is going on?

Comes in fine for me (28.1 is at 94/Good), but 17.1 is a bit on/off at times. I think it depends on where you happen to be and what may be causing interference/reflections. You might be able to repoint your antenna and improve things a bit.

Good Luck!

As it happens... I did nothing, but shortly after posting tonight I went and checked... and my 28.1 is back at full strength this evening. I wouldn't bet money on it, but I'm more sure now that something happened and maybe they fixed it. I know Sunday when trying to watch Star Trek it was breaking up horribly so I gave up... I basically don't watch much on 28.1 except for the new re-worked Star Trek episodes they air on Sunday evenings... so I tend to not notice signal problems on a daily basis.

My "problem" station is 22.1. Everything else comes in really good. If I optimize to get 22.1, then I have issues with 11.x . I use WUNP out of Roanoke Rapids instead of WUNC Chapel Hill. I'm hoping that the 22.1 problems go away after Feb 17 2009.

Time Warner Cable is proud to team up with WRAL to bring EVERY GAME of the men's NCAA Tournament AT NO EXTRA CHARGE to Digital Cable subscribers. And every game will also be available in stunning High Definition!

And yet the weekend before, the Big Ten semifinals, the C-USA final, and the SEC final will all be preempted for the ACC tourney. If you can do 4 HD broadcasts on one weekend, why not do 2 the weekend before it?

Ok - so this is the ONE time of the year I wouldn't mind being on cable....
NCAA tournament in HDTV -

And yet the weekend before, the Big Ten semifinals, the C-USA final, and the SEC final will all be preempted for the ACC tourney. If you can do 4 HD broadcasts on one weekend, why not do 2 the weekend before it?

Probably some exclusivity agreement with JP/Raycom. I guess that is the problem with having the CBS affiliate also hold the rights to the syndicated JP/Raycom ACC games. I kind of wish they'd show the ACC games on WRAZ. That might resolve the conflicts with CBS NCAA coverage.

And I admit I'm still bitter from missing the last 5 minutes of Jericho because there was an ACC game in the prior timeslot on CBS Tues night and I forgot to pad my recording. At least if they showed the games on WRAZ they'd only be cutting into their own 10pm news that way, and that is easy to shorten as needed to get back into scheduled timeslots. And they could broadcast the FOX prime schedule in its entirety at 3am..

But keep in mind that we are really lucky to see all the games. Most CBS affiliates don't have the clue that WRAL does, and just select one HD game at random. Overall, I'm very happy to live near WRAL.

Drew

And yet the weekend before, the Big Ten semifinals, the C-USA final, and the SEC final will all be preempted for the ACC tourney. If you can do 4 HD broadcasts on one weekend, why not do 2 the weekend before it?

Might want to check out the WRAL TV schedule before condemning them. Looks to me like you can get the games you mention (other than Conference USA) by changing the channel. Apparently not HD but still there to be seen.

Link: http://www.wral.com/wral-tv/tv_schedule/

As for the Conference USA stuff, looks like they only have the final game on CBS (and on WRAL 5.2). You CAN pay for the priviledge of seeing the other games, looks like C-USA has adopted a subscription and/or Pay-Per-View model.

Link here: http://conferenceusa.cstv.com/championships/c-usa-08mbb-tv-web.html

Clearly you can't make all the folks happy all the time, but I think that WRAL does a great job of getting much more NCAA Championship basketball to our area than most other stations around the country.

Bob

Im aware that they are available to be seen...but this thread is about HDTV programming....hence, Im referring to the HD broadcast :). They did the right thing a couple of years ago by putting the ACC games only on the SD feed (no HD at the time) and leaving the CBS HD games on the HD channel, but now that Raycom has their butt in gear, thats not a solution. Obviously the ACC games are much bigger in this area, and you cant blame them for not moving them to FOX50 given the ratings, but when the capability to do both is there, it can be frustrating when it isnt used.

And I admit I'm still bitter from missing the last 5 minutes of Jericho because there was an ACC game in the prior timeslot on CBS Tues night and I forgot to pad my recording.You can always download a free copy of JERICHO s2-e4 from the Internet, even in HD if you have a DVD player that can handle it. But you may not like something that happened in the last five minutes.

Ok - so this is the ONE time of the year I wouldn't mind being on cable....
NCAA tournament in HDTV -

Yeah, this is really weird to me when it wasn't that long ago WRAL was running spots condemning cable for charging for their rebroadcasts... I remember WRAL being among the stations encouraging people (including their free antenna giveaways) to watch OTA and not pay cable...

So it is kind of odd to me that they are "in bed" in a way with Time Warner now providing extra feeds that they are not providing to satellite customers nor can we get OTA.

The reason WRAL is able to put games on cable in HD and not OTA is that one OTA HDTV channel delivers around 19 megabits per second. That is enough for one excellent HD channel, or one good HD channel and a few SD channels. WRAL can broadcast many SD feeds or one HD and very few SD feeds at once in that limit. The cable company can choose to pick up the ATSC 8VSB feed with an antenna and translate it into a QAM feed for cable, or it can get the data through a leased line. A leased line can often transmit much more data per second than an antenna channel. For example, you could stuff 8 HD MPEG-2 channels with excellent quality down an OC-3 fiber connection, or 2 HD MPEG-2 channels with excellent quality down a T3 copper connection or an OC-1 fiber connection. Trying to stuff 4 HD MPEG-2 channels down a T3 or an OC-1 will have us begging for SD, because MPEG-2 cannot compress down that much without creating problems.

.... Overall, I'm very happy to live near WRAL.
Not me.
WRAL and Greg Fishel are too in love with Greg Fishel.
I hope everyone that is singing WRALs praises is watching their favorite team play when it is interrupted 10 times (during "the game" and not the commercials) to talk about some rain.

I was just getting ready to watch that new show "New Amsterdam" from last Tuesday and I was disappointed to see that it was shown in SD. I fast forwarded and I saw that it remained that way for several minutes, I guess because of the tornado warning graphic. Are you freaking kidding me? Fox has to switch the source Fox feed to SD to show a stupid graphic on the bottom of the screen? When they're done with the graphic, they switched to HD. This is pathetic, isn't Fox 50 part of WRAL? With all the technology they have, by far the best in this area, they ruin the viewer's experience to show a stupid graphic? I mean, I'm not criticizing that they showed the tornado warning, but I think it's really pathetic that they switch to SD to show it. If they were forced to do that because they don't have the right equipment, then it's time to upgrade.

Not me.
WRAL and Greg Fishel are too in love with Greg Fishel.
I hope everyone that is singing WRALs praises is watching their favorite team play when it is interrupted 10 times (during "the game" and not the commercials) to talk about some rain.

I like Greg ok, but he does seem to be able to interrupt regular programming any time he pleases.

I was just getting ready to watch that new show "New Amsterdam" from last Tuesday and I was disappointed to see that it was shown in SD. I fast forwarded and I saw that it remained that way for several minutes, I guess because of the tornado warning graphic. Are you freaking kidding me? Fox has to switch the source Fox feed to SD to show a stupid graphic on the bottom of the screen? When they're done with the graphic, they switched to HD. This is pathetic, isn't Fox 50 part of WRAL? With all the technology they have, by far the best in this area, they ruin the viewer's experience to show a stupid graphic? I mean, I'm not criticizing that they showed the tornado warning, but I think it's really pathetic that they switch to SD to show it. If they were forced to do that because they don't have the right equipment, then it's time to upgrade.

Here's a link to the New Orleans, LA Message Board re:Weather Crawls in HD on FOX Affiliates:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13196321&postcount=4219

Here's a link to the New Orleans, LA Message Board re:Weather Crawls in HD on FOX Affiliates:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13196321&postcount=4219
OK, so if I read that right, Fox sends the signal like that from the source before it comes to the Triangle? But if the tornado warning is for counties in NC, how can it be that it is Fox central and not Fox 50 who puts that in the signal? I mean, it's kind of difficult for me to believe that Fox central would send hundreds of different HD feeds all over the country customized to whatever weather alerts a certain area of the US might be having at a point in time.

I was just getting ready to watch that new show "New Amsterdam" from last Tuesday and I was disappointed to see that it was shown in SD. I fast forwarded and I saw that it remained that way for several minutes, I guess because of the tornado warning graphic. Are you freaking kidding me? Fox has to switch the source Fox feed to SD to show a stupid graphic on the bottom of the screen? When they're done with the graphic, they switched to HD. This is pathetic, isn't Fox 50 part of WRAL? With all the technology they have, by far the best in this area, they ruin the viewer's experience to show a stupid graphic? I mean, I'm not criticizing that they showed the tornado warning, but I think it's really pathetic that they switch to SD to show it. If they were forced to do that because they don't have the right equipment, then it's time to upgrade.

Same thing happened on American Idol on Tuesday when I was watching the first singer's performance.

OK, so if I read that right, Fox sends the signal like that from the source before it comes to the Triangle? But if the tornado warning is for counties in NC, how can it be that it is Fox central and not Fox 50 who puts that in the signal? I mean, it's kind of difficult for me to believe that Fox central would send hundreds of different HD feeds all over the country customized to whatever weather alerts a certain area of the US might be having at a point in time.

I've PM'd Foxeng asking him to post a clarification on the logistics of the HD Weather Crawl. He'd know better than the rest of us about this. :cool: Stay tuned...

Looks like Time Warner and WRAL will once again be making all the OTAers all there happy during the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. I guess it doesn't say no OTA HD but if they do like in years past.... Interesting channel numbers too... I guess TWC has some addition bandwith now to be carry 4 extra HD channels... SDV?


Time Warner Cable is proud to team up with WRAL to bring EVERY GAME of the men's NCAA Tournament AT NO EXTRA CHARGE to Digital Cable subscribers. And every game will also be available in stunning High Definition!

Tournament games will be shown on these channels:
Standard Definition: 1061-1064
High Definition: 1051-1054

As soon as anyone gets the QAM channel numbers for these, please pass them on!! It will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

The reason WRAL is able to put games on cable in HD and not OTA is that one OTA HDTV channel delivers around 19 megabits per second. That is enough for one excellent HD channel, or one good HD channel and a few SD channels. WRAL can broadcast many SD feeds or one HD and very few SD feeds at once in that limit. The cable company can choose to pick up the ATSC 8VSB feed with an antenna and translate it into a QAM feed for cable, or it can get the data through a leased line. A leased line can often transmit much more data per second than an antenna channel. For example, you could stuff 8 HD MPEG-2 channels with excellent quality down an OC-3 fiber connection, or 2 HD MPEG-2 channels with excellent quality down a T3 copper connection or an OC-1 fiber connection. Trying to stuff 4 HD MPEG-2 channels down a T3 or an OC-1 will have us begging for SD, because MPEG-2 cannot compress down that much without creating problems.

I know why WRAL can't do it OTA... that really isn't what my post was about. I just find it highly ironic that just a few years ago WRAL was encouraging folks to go OTA and ditch cable because they wanted to charge us for locals and not pay WRAL for them... and now flash forward and Time Warner is being provided extra feeds that OTA customers cannot get.

I understand the limitations of OTA bandwidth... but it's strange that cable customers are now benefitting after WRAL was campaigning against cable not too long ago.

The reason I have Dish network in the first place instead of cable is because when I moved into my new house about 6 years ago.. I called Time Warner and scheduled an installation, they put me on a 6-month waiting list but didn't tell me that. I called back a couple of weeks to check on my install only to find out they hadn't ran cable to my street when the phone/power/water people were all here and they had no idea when they would come out. Dish installed me 24 hours after I made the call!

About a year after that, Time Warner trucks came through on a rainy day and drove bulldozers all over my front yard and messed up my landscape when finally running cable to my street... after pretty much everyone had already went with satellite. They also left a can of spraypaint that they use for marking the sidewalk/street in the road and a truck ran over it and it shot at my house and made a nice splotch of paint as well.

So I have lots of reasons to not be happy when Time Warner gets something extra.

Ranting off now :)

OK, so if I read that right, Fox sends the signal like that from the source before it comes to the Triangle? But if the tornado warning is for counties in NC, how can it be that it is Fox central and not Fox 50 who puts that in the signal?

No, what they are saying is that the FOX network does not allow them to touch the HD signal. Read the part about how the network somehow inserts the station's logo (bug), so that the local affiliate does not need to touch the HD feed. Since they are not allowed to touch the HD feed, they must switch to the SD feed and broadcast it upconverted to insert weather and other crawls.

Other stations have similar issues. I remember NBC17 putting L&O:SVU into SD for almost the entire hour to insert election crawls last November. This was much more irritating, given that I don't think they are required by law to insert that information, like they are required to insert weather info. Given they were local elections which, judging by the vote totals, almost nobody cared about, it would have been better to briefly ask viewers to tune to a different channel for election info (or go to the station's web site).

Drew

You can always download a free copy of JERICHO s2-e4 from the Internet

I watched it from the CBS web site, in possibly the worst embedded media player I have ever seen.

The nice thing is that it seems like more and more networks are putting their shows up legally for free. When I miss 5 minutes of a show, I'd rather watch it from a legal web site (no matter how crappy the player) than download the entire show and risk persecution (or waste $1.99 at iTunes). Obviously, I'd rather not have missed those 5 minutes at all :)

Drew

Are you freaking kidding me? Fox has to switch the source Fox feed to SD to show a stupid graphic on the bottom of the screen? When they're done with the graphic, they switched to HD. This is pathetic, isn't Fox 50 part of WRAL? With all the technology they have, by far the best in this area, they ruin the viewer's experience to show a stupid graphic?

The way FOX Network provides the HD signal to affiliates, there is no easy way to insert the weather graphics in HD. The very thing that makes the FOX Network system more appealing to stations is the very reason why stations can't insert downstream items like other network stations. That is why FOX affiliate stations have to drop back to SD to run weather crawls and such and other network affiliate stations don't. It has nothing to do with who owns what station. If FOX had not used this system for HD, many FOX affiliates would not have provided the network in HD since most FOX affiliates do not have the revenue of the ABC, CBS, NBC stations in their markets. In this system, FOX picks up the burden of providing what is needed to broadcast the network in HD, leaving the affiliate to just upconvert local content while providing network in HD and 5.1, something the other networks don't do.

The FCC requires stations to provide visually, for the hard of hearing, any situation that is life threatening. If not, the station can be fined or ultimately loose the license for not doing it, analog or digital. And yes, the FOX Network is aware of the situation.

The way FOX Network provides the HD signal to affiliates, there is no easy way to insert the weather graphics in HD. The very thing that makes the FOX Network system more appealing to stations is the very reason why stations can't insert downstream items like other network stations. That is why FOX affiliate stations have to drop back to SD to run weather crawls and such and other network affiliate stations don't. It has nothing to do with who owns what station. If FOX had not used this system for HD, many FOX affiliates would not have provided the network in HD since most FOX affiliates do not have the revenue of the ABC, CBS, NBC stations in their markets. In this system, FOX picks up the burden of providing what is needed to broadcast the network in HD, leaving the affiliate to just upconvert local content while providing network in HD and 5.1, something the other networks don't do.

The FCC requires stations to provide visually, for the hard of hearing, any situation that is life threatening. If not, the station can be fined or ultimately loose the license for not doing it, analog or digital. And yes, the FOX Network is aware of the situation.

Very interested read as always foxeng.

The FCC requires stations to provide visually, for the hard of hearing, any situation that is life threatening. If not, the station can be fined or ultimately loose the license for not doing it, analog or digital. And yes, the FOX Network is aware of the situation.


I have no issue with getting weather info out and you seem like a geat guy and I am sure did not make the policy and I in now way blame you so don't take this the wrong way.

The issue I have is that I have never seen any station interrupt a commercial for this life safety information (now, it may have happened somewhere though). I know they have to pay the bills, but if it is truly a life threatening condition, I would hope the stations would override a commercial with the crawl as well or even stop showing commercials at all.

That is why FOX affiliate stations have to drop back to SD to run weather crawls and such and other network affiliate stations don't.
I have yet to see any of our Raleigh market stations run a weather crawl over HD video. They either drop to SD, or. more often, only put the crawl on SD and leave HD clean (which I am perfectly happy with and hope they continue to do so :) ).

Question about the Navigator rollout, as it sounds like it is fast approaching: I still have my old 8000HD and want to go in and get an 8300HD. My guess is Ill have a much easier time getting the 8300HDC though. Are the issues with the 8300HDC boxes just with the software, or are there hardware issues too? In other words, will trying to get an 8300HD to avoid any technical issues be pointless once Navigator has been pushed to all boxes, or will there be some benefit to having the 8300HD over the 8300HDC regardless of software?

I have no issue with getting weather info out and you seem like a geat guy and I am sure did not make the policy and I in now way blame you so don't take this the wrong way.

I can honestly say I do not know what they are doing at FOX 50 since I don't work there, but work at WGHP in High Point and yes you are right, I don't make the rules, but I do have to live by them to continue to collect a paycheck. :D

And the stations that do not run the info on the DTV channel are in violation of the rules and could be fined. The hard of hearing group is a VERY vocal group. Just ask any station that has an issue with closed captioning on a newscast! The phones melt off the wall! Stations already have been fined for not providing information on the digital channel, crawls and closed captioning. Stations are in a limbo state at this point trying to keep things together on analog for another 11 months and at the same time, trying to get ready when there will be no analog. It can be a Catch 22 situation and not all of the bases get covered.

Question about the Navigator rollout, as it sounds like it is fast approaching: I still have my old 8000HD and want to go in and get an 8300HD. My guess is Ill have a much easier time getting the 8300HDC though. Are the issues with the 8300HDC boxes just with the software, or are there hardware issues too? In other words, will trying to get an 8300HD to avoid any technical issues be pointless once Navigator has been pushed to all boxes, or will there be some benefit to having the 8300HD over the 8300HDC regardless of software?

I don't know much about the 8000HD but DO have experience with the 8300HD and 8300HDC. I had tons of problems with the HDC and until I complained to the Town of Cary I suffered through 4 of those boxes. Complaining loudly got me an 8300HD and all is well.

I'd hold on to your 8000HD until TWC or Scientific Atlanta/Cisco irons out the problems with the HDC. You won't get an 8300HD out of them without a fight.

Jim

Question about the Navigator rollout, as it sounds like it is fast approaching: I still have my old 8000HD and want to go in and get an 8300HD. My guess is Ill have a much easier time getting the 8300HDC though. Are the issues with the 8300HDC boxes just with the software, or are there hardware issues too? In other words, will trying to get an 8300HD to avoid any technical issues be pointless once Navigator has been pushed to all boxes, or will there be some benefit to having the 8300HD over the 8300HDC regardless of software?

The navigator forum is probably the better place to ask this question. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

But from what I have read on the Navigator forum the problem is mainly software related. The older version of Navigator that is coming on the HDC boxes now seems to have lots of bugs. However in the markets that have had Navigator pushed out to them in the last few weeks, they are getting a newer version which is said to fix several of the bugs and seems more stable. I think there are hardware issues with the HDC but usually the same hard drive issues that you would have with just an HD box.

SO, I just realized that WRAL is not showing any of the NCAA first round game sin HD. We do get them all OTA, but none in HD. I have to say, that kind of sucks.

To restate the obvious - there simply isn't the bandwidth to do 4 HD feeds simultaneaously on 1 channel.

SO, I just realized that WRAL is not showing any of the NCAA first round game sin HD. We do get them all OTA, but none in HD. I have to say, that kind of sucks.

That has been business as usual. Personally I would prefer to see 1 HD game and 1 SD game on 5.2 and just miss the other 2 games than to see 4 SD games.

Oddly enough, for all the "we can't use FOX50 because of FOX contracts"... the year Duke, State, and UNC were all in the sweet 16 they did use FOX50 to show State and Duke HD games OTA at the same time... so you can bet that they could do it if they wanted.

For the most part, it isn't like FOX network is airing any network HD content during the times of day that the NCAA games would be on, except possibly for Thursday and Friday night... but I'll bet those are repeats and WRAZ could show those after 2am like they do for other pre-empted stuff.

Bottom line... if they wanted to air a couple of HD OTA games, I suspect they could make it work. I know the bandwidth would prevent them from doing more than that... but you can bet if Duke and UNC were playing simultaneous games they would figure out a way to do it.

When they go to the 4 game OTA simulcast, the quality of the picture is so bad that the games are only worth watching if a local team (or ACC non local) is involved anyway... so it just seems pointless.

The way FOX Network provides the HD signal to affiliates, there is no easy way to insert the weather graphics in HD. The very thing that makes the FOX Network system more appealing to stations is the very reason why stations can't insert downstream items like other network stations. That is why FOX affiliate stations have to drop back to SD to run weather crawls and such and other network affiliate stations don't. It has nothing to do with who owns what station. If FOX had not used this system for HD, many FOX affiliates would not have provided the network in HD since most FOX affiliates do not have the revenue of the ABC, CBS, NBC stations in their markets. In this system, FOX picks up the burden of providing what is needed to broadcast the network in HD, leaving the affiliate to just upconvert local content while providing network in HD and 5.1, something the other networks don't do.

The FCC requires stations to provide visually, for the hard of hearing, any situation that is life threatening. If not, the station can be fined or ultimately loose the license for not doing it, analog or digital. And yes, the FOX Network is aware of the situation.

Whatever the reason is, and whoever the culprit is, they have to change things to avoid things like this from happening. It's pathetic that I'm watching a show in HD and suddenly the aspect ratio changes, the picture quality is degraded and I have to put up with a stupid little map covering part of the screen. Whoever came up with the idea of the map isn't too smart, nor are the ones who approved it. If that's meant for deaf people, does the network intend to make them blind too, by staring at the tiny map trying to figure out where their county is in it? That's just retarded, what they should do is put a text slowly scrolling from right to left saying which counties are under the weather alert, while not messing with the HD feed.

That has been business as usual. Personally I would prefer to see 1 HD game and 1 SD game on 5.2 and just miss the other 2 games than to see 4 SD games.

Seems like we should just point a pointer in to last year's arguments about this and move on. ;)

Whatever the reason is, and whoever the culprit is, they have to change things to avoid things like this from happening. It's pathetic that I'm watching a show in HD and suddenly the aspect ratio changes, the picture quality is degraded and I have to put up with a stupid little map covering part of the screen. Whoever came up with the idea of the map isn't too smart, nor are the ones who approved it. If that's meant for deaf people, does the network intend to make them blind too, by staring at the tiny map trying to figure out where their county is in it? That's just retarded, what they should do is put a text slowly scrolling from right to left saying which counties are under the weather alert, while not messing with the HD feed.

As the one of the Vulcan axioms go, "the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many." Or in other words, get ready for a lot of disappointment in the near future.

Whatever the reason is, and whoever the culprit is, they have to change things to avoid things like this from happening. It's pathetic that I'm watching a show in HD and suddenly the aspect ratio changes, the picture quality is degraded and I have to put up with a stupid little map covering part of the screen. Whoever came up with the idea of the map isn't too smart, nor are the ones who approved it. If that's meant for deaf people, does the network intend to make them blind too, by staring at the tiny map trying to figure out where their county is in it? That's just retarded, what they should do is put a text slowly scrolling from right to left saying which counties are under the weather alert, while not messing with the HD feed.

Look, I am all for better quality, and less hiccups. That said, you were given an answer and explained by a professional the reason behind it, yet you are whining like it is ruining your life. If you can't handle a resolution change the once in a blue moon we have bad weather or there is serious breaking news, maybe you need to rethink your priorities?

Look, I am all for better quality, and less hiccups. That said, you were given an answer and explained by a professional the reason behind it, yet you are whining like it is ruining your life. If you can't handle a resolution change the once in a blue moon we have bad weather or there is serious breaking news, maybe you need to rethink your priorities?

You're exaggerating my statement big time. I'm not whining and it's not ruining my life. All I'm saying is that it's unacceptable that a network has to switch to a poor picture quality in order to put a little map on the bottom of the screen that doesn't help anybody. It doesn't ruin my life, but it ruins my viewing experience at that particular time. It's extremely distracting, and granted, even if they didn't switch to SD and still put the map, it would be distracting, but not as much.

...... All I'm saying is that it's unacceptable that a network has to switch to a poor picture quality in order to put a little map on the bottom of the screen that doesn't help anybody. It doesn't ruin my life, but it ruins my viewing experience at that particular time. It's extremely distracting, and granted, even if they didn't switch to SD and still put the map, it would be distracting, but not as much.

I agree completely. I find this to be annoying and not very helpful plus they greatly over do it. The most annoying of all is the blow by blow election results. Just tell me who won the next day. I don't need to see it precinct by precinct and I don't think anyone else cares to that level except maybe the person(s) actually running.

When I used to live in Huntsville, AL, the stations there sometimes drew the weather radar on the map on such occasions so we knew whether the bad weather was headed towards us or has already passed. The radar was timesliced with the watches and warnings maps. This was important because Huntsville was in the middle of a tornado alley, and we often spent many hours in the basement due to the huge amount of tornadoes that love to spawn in the Tennessee Valley.

I feel that if a map is drawn, draw the radar on top of it at least from time to time.

It is possible that a radar was drawn, but I did not hang around long enough to see it.

Whatever the reason is, and whoever the culprit is, they have to change things to avoid things like this from happening. It's pathetic that I'm watching a show in HD and suddenly the aspect ratio changes, the picture quality is degraded and I have to put up with a stupid little map covering part of the screen. Whoever came up with the idea of the map isn't too smart, nor are the ones who approved it. If that's meant for deaf people, does the network intend to make them blind too, by staring at the tiny map trying to figure out where their county is in it? That's just retarded, what they should do is put a text slowly scrolling from right to left saying which counties are under the weather alert, while not messing with the HD feed.

With all the promo crap that networks are starting to throw at the audience, something which actually has a valid reason to exist is bothering you?

With all the promo crap that networks are starting to throw at the audience, something which actually has a valid reason to exist is bothering you?

The promo crap bothers me quite a lot, but at least the network doesn't switch to an inferior picture quality with a different aspect ratio to superimpose them. They are hateful anyway. I'm simply saying that a stupid little map like that doesn't even help much. You might live in Granville county but maybe you don't even know the shape of your county in a map. Chances are you know more the name of the county you live in rather than its shape on a map, especially if you just moved there. Hell, I lived there for a year and I have no clue what it looks like on a map.

A simpler and more practical method would be to scroll text on the bottom of the screen saying something like "Tornado alert for Granville and Vance counties, 8 PM to 3 AM". And of course, scroll the text without switching to SD. That's pathetic.

The promo crap bothers me quite a lot, but at least the network doesn't switch to an inferior picture quality with a different aspect ratio to superimpose them. They are hateful anyway. I'm simply saying that a stupid little map like that doesn't even help much. You might live in Granville county but maybe you don't even know the shape of your county in a map. Chances are you know more the name of the county you live in rather than its shape on a map, especially if you just moved there. Hell, I lived there for a year and I have no clue what it looks like on a map.

A simpler and more practical method would be to scroll text on the bottom of the screen saying something like "Tornado alert for Granville and Vance counties, 8 PM to 3 AM". And of course, scroll the text without switching to SD. That's pathetic.

WRAL has a map of all of the counties in their viewing area for use when looking at their radar via their website or for knowing when the weather warnings for your county appear on the map. Here's the link: http://www.wral.com/weather/page/1172715/

Now that North Carolina will become critical in the Democratic presidential candidate selection process, what I would love to see is a debate hosted in the RTP area televised in HD nationwide (probably with WRAL's assistance). This way, a tiny twitch or tell that one of the candidates is lying will more likely be caught by the HD cameras that would be lost due to NTSC's low resolution.

Hi,

I have a Samsung LN-T4669F LCD HDTV. I really like it in general, but I am having a problem and I wondered if it might be related to the QAM tuner.

This TV has 2 ANT inputs. I have basic Time-Warner cable connected to one and an antenna in the attic connected to the other. I can receive the local (unencrypted) channels in HD with both of these, but the signal strength/reception can be better (and some times much better) with the antenna! As expected, if the weather is bad (windy or rainy), the antenna reception falls off. But in these cases, the cable reception is often even worse! The cable reception for analog channels seems normal (so-so picture, but no dropouts), but at times (such as during the bad weather over the last day or two) the unencrypted HD channels over the cable have lots of dropouts.

Does this make sense? I had assumed that unencrypted local HD channels over cable would not be affected by weather and would always look good, whereas the OTA reception might be hit or miss. Instead, it's like the cable HD channels are simply retransmitted OTA signals that might be coming from a location where the storm is worse than at my house.

Was I simply misunderstanding how this all works, or could there be a problem with my QAM tuner? Thanks,

Gregg

The issue I have is that I have never seen any station interrupt a commercial for this life safety information...
... if it is truly a life threatening condition, I would hope the stations would override a commercial with the crawl as well or even stop showing commercials at all.
Getting caught up on the forum and saw this Gem that everyone glossed over.
I agree and add that if it is not "life threatening" enough to interrupt a commercial then it is not "life threatening" enough to interrupt programming.
The UNC game that got interrupted the other night got interrupted at 8:00, NOT 7:55 when the commercials were playing. Then throughout the broadcast NEVER during commercial breaks. Just coincidence, I am sure. :rolleyes:

Look, I am all for better quality, and less hiccups. That said, you were given an answer and explained by a professional the reason behind it, yet you are whining like it is ruining your life. If you can't handle a resolution change the once in a blue moon we have bad weather or there is serious breaking news, maybe you need to rethink your priorities?
If WRAL disturbed regular broadcast for a "killer twister" making it's way thru downtown Raleigh, I don't think anyone would be complaining.
Your observation that this happens "once in a blue moon" is WRONG.
If you are new to the area then "Welcome", but if you have been here for any length of time you know WRAL is the WORST offender at interrupting programming to get their high paid Meteorologist face time.
Your questioning others priorities as if we all would rather have mass casualties than lose a minute of programming is a little pompus.
How many lives did we lose to the storm in question? None. Oh, all thanks to WRAL, I am sure. :rolleyes:

Getting caught up on the forum and saw this Gem that everyone glossed over.
I agree and add that if it is not "life threatening" enough to interrupt a commercial then it is not "life threatening" enough to interrupt programming.
The UNC game that got interrupted the other night got interrupted at 8:00, NOT 7:55 when the commercials were playing. Then throughout the broadcast NEVER during commercial breaks. Just coincidence, I am sure. :rolleyes:

Great observation. I agree completely. It just proves that corporate greed trumps community safety. They are not going to loose the advertising bucks but don't mind at all ruining the end of a program.

To restate the obvious - there simply isn't the bandwidth to do 4 HD feeds simultaneaously on 1 channel.


I totally understand that. But several years ago, I am pretty sure they ran multiple SD feeds on WRAL and the HD game on Fox. I may be wrong, but I don;t think so .

Basically any random guy using the antenna WRAL provided for him is not even going to be able to see the one game salted for this area in HD and while I know the rules do not say they have to do HD in return for all this free spectrum they use to make money, it just seems a little crappy to give the HD to cable people, but not to those veiwing OTA.

At any rate, it does not matter to me since we got Mega March Madness and I will be at the First and Second Rounds in Raleigh anyway. (even better than HD)

Seems like we should just point a pointer in to last year's arguments about this and move on. ;)


Hey pkscout, a great idea but that would be too easy! :rolleyes:

And for those who would like to read last years "hash" before "rehashing" this year, you can start here and go on for many pages: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10038857#post10038857

Bob

SO, I just realized that WRAL is not showing any of the NCAA first round game sin HD. We do get them all OTA, but none in HD. I have to say, that kind of sucks.

have you seen this stated regarding this year's NCAA tournament? i know this is what WRAL did in the past. and we hashed this out last year (as pointed to previously). at that time because of complaints about no HD, the WRAL station manager said they were in discussions about what to do this year. i.e. they weren't necessarily going to do 4 OTA subchannels in SD this year.

i couldn't find anything that said what WRAL's plan's were this year. I did check the schedule on their website, and it shows 1 HD game on 5.1 and 1 SD game on 5.2. this isn't proof either way ... but i'm hoping that's what they end up doing. 1 HD and 1 SD is better than 4 SD imho.

Sorry if some think this is rehashing, but if there is no complaining year after year, WRAL will just interpret that as "Everyone loves our decision".

More and more viewers are getting HD tvs and yes that means a lot more OTA viewers to experience this for the first time. And whether in this forum or not, there will be a lot MORE complaining after WRAL actually does it.

The biggest travesty is when the local teams one in particular being ranked #1 in the country are subjugated to SD so 3 other out of region games can be showed at the same time, that few if any will be watching in WRAL's viewing area anyway. :mad:
Someone explain how that makes any sense.

Not that it will do any good, but I just sent an email to WRAL (General Manager and Programming).
We all know complaining "after the fact" doesn't work. So I thought I would try this approach.

Thanks for the feedback. You're jumping the gun. This year we will
offer all the NCAA games in HD. Obviously we can't do that with our
available bandwidth, so the primary game will be on 5.1 over the air.
The other games will be fed to Time Warner in HD and will air on the
cable channels. We'll carry a second game in SD over-the-air as well.
It's the first time we're handling it this way and it's driven primarily
because of the issues you mention...

Enjoy the games
John Harris
WRAL
Now I am going to tackle the Weather interruptions.

So, the primary game in HD OTA, plus a secondary game in SD on a subchannel OTA? Then TWC people get all 4 games in HD due to no bandwidth issues. That seems fair enough as at least OTA people get the main game in HD.

Now I am going to tackle the Weather interruptions.

you may be pressing your luck. can't you be happy with just NCAA HD OTA? :)
seriously though, i am glad to hear that they will be showing the main game in HD OTA.

you may be pressing your luck. can't you be happy with just NCAA HD OTA? :)
seriously though, i am glad to hear that they will be showing the main game in HD OTA.
"NO WHAMMY! NO WHAMMY!"
The squeaky wheel gets the oil, you know.
My 7th grade teacher on occasion called me "Rude, Crude, and Uncouth". Which I will gladly wear with honor if I can get through a year of basketball in HD without having Greg Fishel telling me it's raining outside DURING the game.

Getting caught up on the forum and saw this Gem that everyone glossed over.
I agree and add that if it is not "life threatening" enough to interrupt a commercial then it is not "life threatening" enough to interrupt programming.
The UNC game that got interrupted the other night got interrupted at 8:00, NOT 7:55 when the commercials were playing. Then throughout the broadcast NEVER during commercial breaks. Just coincidence, I am sure. :rolleyes:

As much as I'd like to blame this on corporate greed, my guess would be that at 7:55 most people aren't sitting there watching the commercials, they're in the kitchen getting their snacks, the popcorn, the beers, whatever. They interrupt at 8 because that's when they'll have the most viewership and are most likely to get the message out to the largest audience possible.

As much as I'd like to blame this on corporate greed, my guess would be that at 7:55 most people aren't sitting there watching the commercials, they're in the kitchen getting their snacks, the popcorn, the beers, whatever. They interrupt at 8 because that's when they'll have the most viewership and are most likely to get the message out to the largest audience possible.
So WRAL is going to let a tornado snake across NC for 5 minutes worth of commercials waiting for the magic hour more viewers will be tuned in; I don't buy it.

"NO WHAMMY! NO WHAMMY!"
The squeaky wheel gets the oil, you know.
My 7th grade teacher on occasion called me "Rude, Crude, and Uncouth". Which I will gladly wear with honor if I can get through a year of basketball in HD without having Greg Fishel telling me it's raining outside DURING the game.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil (or grease) .... OR gets REPLACED!!! Be careful, the wheel is not who gets to make that decision! :)

The biggest travesty is when the local teams one in particular being ranked #1 in the country are subjugated to SD so 3 other out of region games can be showed at the same time, that few if any will be watching in WRAL's viewing area anyway. :mad:
Someone explain how that makes any sense.

OK, I'll argue the other side. There are lots and lots and lots of fans of the different teams. I don't particularly care what happens to the current #1 team in the country, so if that game was in full HD and the only one on, I wouldn't watch at all. By reducing the quality of the "main" channel to get all the games in, WRAL serves the largest possible part of their market.

In addition, WRAL has made a separate agreement with TWC to provide all the games in the highest possible quality, again serving as much of their market as possible with the best possible service.

If WRAL disturbed regular broadcast for a "killer twister" making it's way thru downtown Raleigh, I don't think anyone would be complaining.
Your observation that this happens "once in a blue moon" is WRONG.
If you are new to the area then "Welcome", but if you have been here for any length of time you know WRAL is the WORST offender at interrupting programming to get their high paid Meteorologist face time.
Your questioning others priorities as if we all would rather have mass casualties than lose a minute of programming is a little pompus.
How many lives did we lose to the storm in question? None. Oh, all thanks to WRAL, I am sure. :rolleyes:

There is no point in arguing with you further. I think it's pretty clear who is being pompus here. I mean, you are complaining about interruptions because of SEVERER WEATHER. Are you that dense? The weather was serious, and if God forbid, a tornado had touched down, and they hadn't warned about it, you'd be at the front of the line to burn them at the stake. Crawl back in your hole, I'm done talking to you.

There is no point in arguing with you further. I think it's pretty clear who is being pompus here. I mean, you are complaining about interruptions because of SEVERER WEATHER. Are you that dense? The weather was serious, and if God forbid, a tornado had touched down, and they hadn't warned about it, you'd be at the front of the line to burn them at the stake. Crawl back in your hole, I'm done talking to you.
Obviously "Facts" get under your skin a bit.
If it was severe enough weather it would have interrupted the 7:55 commercials not waited 'till 8:00 and maybe some other commercials along the way. I am sorry others with "logic" didn't agree with your simplistic, "it's to save lives" argument.
Your first post on the subject did come across as "pompus" insinuating everyone that had another point of view would rather see viewers die. This last post of yours doesn't help your case for anyone trying to figure out who is dense and who actually has a point.

OK, I'll argue the other side. There are lots and lots and lots of fans of the different teams. I don't particularly care what happens to the current #1 team in the country, so if that game was in full HD and the only one on, I wouldn't watch at all. By reducing the quality of the "main" channel to get all the games in, WRAL serves the largest possible part of their market.

In addition, WRAL has made a separate agreement with TWC to provide all the games in the highest possible quality, again serving as much of their market as possible with the best possible service.
Don't get hung up on the #1 part of my argument. The fact is that most people that live in ACC country will be watching their ACC teams when giving a choice. My guess is that the ratings for the local team will beat the other 3 channels combined. And remember we are only talking OTA.

I'm on Dish, and I lost Ch11 WTVD HD this evening about 7:10PM, during Jeapardy, with only a yellow/green screen showing. All other locals are OK, but Ch11 is still out at 7:35 PM. Anyone else experiencing this outage?

I just get a blank screen on TWC Cary for ABC11's HD feed.

I just get a blank screen on TWC Cary for ABC11's HD feed.

11-1 OTA is blank screen. 11-2 is OK though.

Same problem here in North Raleigh (near Capital). ABC went out right after Jeopardy came back from the first commercial break. Everything else seems to be working.

We had an issue last night with DirecTV also. At a little after 10:00 my wife noticed the Bachelor special did not record correctly and we tuned to the channel to find it was out on DirecTV (MPEG 4 HD Local) At that time, I tuned to 11-1 and it was working. I sent an email to the engineer over there this morning asking about it.

Anybody know what TWC's schedule is for the SDV rollout in our area?

Is it true that once SDV is here, the clear-QAM HD channels will bounce around? Or are they obligated to keep them in a fixed position for Tivo users?

Thanks,

Drew

OK, I'll argue the other side. There are lots and lots and lots of fans of the different teams. I don't particularly care what happens to the current #1 team in the country, so if that game was in full HD and the only one on, I wouldn't watch at all. By reducing the quality of the "main" channel to get all the games in, WRAL serves the largest possible part of their market.

In addition, WRAL has made a separate agreement with TWC to provide all the games in the highest possible quality, again serving as much of their market as possible with the best possible service.

I agree with this one - I just sent a "Contact me" expressing MY displeasure of not having the whole tournament - I am not and haven't been for many years a subscriber of TWC, and I was REALLY looking forward to watching Kansas (my Alma Mater), since this is the first time I've had an ATSC tuner for tournament time.

Hmm - wonder if I could talk the wife into a lifeline only for the next month ?...

I agree with this one - I just sent a "Contact me" expressing MY displeasure of not having the whole tournament - I am not and haven't been for many years a subscriber of TWC, and I was REALLY looking forward to watching Kansas (my Alma Mater), since this is the first time I've had an ATSC tuner for tournament time.

Hmm - wonder if I could talk the wife into a lifeline only for the next month ?...

I don't want to stir this issue back up like it was last year but exactly what are expressing your displeasure over? I can understand last year that people were upset about not getting a game in HD because of those of us on TWC were getting all 4 games. I can understand being upset about that. But now you are complaining they aren't showing all the games in horrible bearly watchable SD because this year they are actually gonna give the OTA folks a game in HD and only one SD game? That is actually one more game than WRAL has to give you. Most places are getting the one game and that's it. At most in the tournament there are 3 games going on at a time. Kansas is a big name school and most likely will be on the SD channel because people want to see them play. WRAL is not required to bring you the whole tournament. If you want to see the whole tournament then you need to make some effort and get TWC or Mega March Madness from DirectTV. Not fussing at you Scooper but with all the WRAL has done for HD over the years I get tired of people always complaining about what they aren't doing. I guess it's true that you can't please all the people all the time no matter how hard you try.

I agree with this one - I just sent a "Contact me" expressing MY displeasure of not having the whole tournament - I am not and haven't been for many years a subscriber of TWC, and I was REALLY looking forward to watching Kansas (my Alma Mater), since this is the first time I've had an ATSC tuner for tournament time.

Hmm - wonder if I could talk the wife into a lifeline only for the next month ?...

While I sympathize with wanting to see games for alum of non-local schools, the local TV stations will cater to the local market alum/fans. Let's face it, that is the majority of their customers.

when I lived in Oh in the early 90's, I could walk into Damon's, where they had 6 TVs going with football games, and not find a single ACC game on, even when both of the ACC teams were ranked in the top 20, and the game was on a national network feed. They were only showing Big 10 games.

If by some weird coincidence you had 3-4 local teams all playing at the same time, I suspect they would quickly adapt and show all of them in SD (I would hope). But that shouldn't be an issue this year (unfortunately)

WRAL isn't playing favorites any more than any other area of the country does.

While I sympathize with wanting to see games for alum of non-local schools, the local TV stations will cater to the local market alum/fans. Let's face it, that is the majority of their customers.

I agree.. I like watching Kansas or UCLA and this year Tennessee, for example... but I'm a lifelong NC resident and given the choice I prefer to see one of the local schools play first, another ACC school play second, and then other outside-ACC schools play.

...
If by some weird coincidence you had 3-4 local teams all playing at the same time, I suspect they would quickly adapt and show all of them in SD (I would hope). But that shouldn't be an issue this year (unfortunately)
...

I think you are right that we won't find out, but I can't imagine them switching midstream. They have a plan this year that I am sure they will see thru.

Every Saturday and Sunday during football season the local bars and restaurants are packed with fans watching their "out of market" teams. At least in this circumstance, going to a friend's that pays "way too much" for "too few" channels is also an option. ;)

Call me picky and a pain in the ass if you want, but I want to say this: NBC17 sucks. Not NBC, but our local affiliate. I'm pissed off with them because I finally have time to watch last Saturday's SNL and it turns out they ate a few seconds at the beginning of the show with some retarded Subway commercial. And you can tell it's them and not the source because among other things, their equipment is either so cheap or they don't know how to operate it properly, but whenever they switch from the local SD feed to the main NBC feed in HD you can see the broadcast going berserk for a second or two with the picture changing sizes abruptly back and forth and an annoying noise. They bite chunks of original programming all the time, which normally is maybe a second or two, but this time they cut several seconds because when they switched to the NBC feed Amy Pohler was already talking. Really pathetic.

And of course there's the dismal picture quality NBC17 has in HD, added to the motion blurring. If you can capture a primetime series in HD from NBC17 go frame by frame whenever something fast goes on the screen. You can see the contour of the shape in four different places. And just to see how awful their picture quality is, try watching ER on NBC17 and then compare it to ER on TNT HD. TNT looks way better, and it's not that it looks really good. But compared to NBC17 anything looks good.

So the way I see it, NBC17 has to modernize their equipment and get people who can operate it properly, and who can actually fit the commercials in the allowed time for them in the source feed. The way it is now, it's an amateur station.

Call me picky and a pain in the ass if you want, but I want to say this: NBC17 sucks. Not NBC, but our local affiliate.

While I would have said it a little nicer, I don't entirely disagree. However, it is worth noting that NBC17 is a network (NBC obviously) owned station... so you kind of have to blame NBC for NBC17 problems really.

Their biggest problem, ultimately, is simulcasting 3 subchannels. There is not much need for 17.2 since it is just an SD simulcast of 17.1... and it sucks bandwidth. 17.3 arguably has content of value at times similar to 5.2 or 50.3 so it's harder to argue against its existence...

But WRAL does nicely with 5.1 and 5.2, so we should be able to have 17.1 and 17.2 (move 17.3 content to 17.2 and drop 17.3) and that alone should make a huge difference in the quality of 17.

So the way I see it, NBC17 has to modernize their equipment and get people who can operate it properly, and who can actually fit the commercials in the allowed time for them in the source feed. The way it is now, it's an amateur station.

Well I'm sure NBC17ENG will appreciate the constructive feedback. :rolleyes:

Before you go off on a rant next time you may want to just ask him what happened.

Before you go off on a rant next time you may want to just ask him what happened.

I don't really care what happened. A guy may have been distracted when he had to push a button on a switcher. Or the commercial may have ran three seconds longer than what it said on paper. The only thing that matters to me is that the beginning of one of my favorite shows got cut by a really retarded Subway commercial. And even if it would've been the greatest commercial of all time, I don't give a damn. I just care that it stepped over one of my favorite shows. There has to be a guy who's there to make sure that the original programming gets aired from start to finish untouched. We're not talking about the local newscast or some really lame daytime show. We're talking about primetime programming, a show that's been 32 years on the air. It deserves more respect than being cut off by a stupid Subway commercial. If it were the only time this has happened I wouldn't be so fed up, but I've seen it countless times on NBC17, while I don't remember seeing it on the other networks.

I have noticed that while wtaching HD sports on NBC17 that the sound is very low. Is anyone else hearing, or not hearing, the same? Tried watching a little bit of golf and couldn't hear anything with the same sound levels as the other channels.

Media General owns NBC 17, not NBC.

I have noticed that while wtaching HD sports on NBC17 that the sound is very low. Is anyone else hearing, or not hearing, the same? Tried watching a little bit of golf and couldn't hear anything with the same sound levels as the other channels.

NBC17 has the lowest audio level of all the local stations. WRAL has the highest, sometimes excessive since it clips and it sounds bad. But for the most part it sounds good, as well as the other stations. When I've been watching something from NBC17 and I start watching something from some other network I always have to lower the volume in my amplifier because otherwise the volume will be extremely high. This is not related to cable, when I used to receive all the local networks in HD over the air it was the same. I remember e-mailing NBC17 at the time and they basically said their volume was at the right level. Well, it's not.

NBC17 has the lowest audio level of all the local stations. WRAL has the highest, sometimes excessive since it clips and it sounds bad. But for the most part it sounds good, as well as the other stations. When I've been watching something from NBC17 and I start watching something from some other network I always have to lower the volume in my amplifier because otherwise the volume will be extremely high. This is not related to cable, when I used to receive all the local networks in HD over the air it was the same. I remember e-mailing NBC17 at the time and they basically said their volume was at the right level. Well, it's not.

It may be possible that NBC 17 is not using an audio dynamic range compressor, while the other stations do. If that is so, it is the other stations' fault for distorting the audio with a dynamic range compressor. It could also be the networks' fault for distorting the audio in this way. This distortion is necessary to get it to transmit over NTSC (quiet noises were so soft that they would be cut off at the NTSC transmitter, so their dynamic ranges needed compression to allow them to make it through the NTSC circuits. This boosted their loudness), but unneeded for ATSC and the cable companies' QAM-based pseudostandard (ATSC does not provide QAM, but 16VSB for cable).

It may be possible that NBC 17 is not using an audio dynamic range compressor, while the other stations do. If that is so, it is the other stations' fault for distorting the audio with a dynamic range compressor. It could also be the networks' fault for distorting the audio in this way. This distortion is necessary to get it to transmit over NTSC (quiet noises were so soft that they would be cut off at the NTSC transmitter, so their dynamic ranges needed compression to allow them to make it through the NTSC circuits. This boosted their loudness), but unneeded for ATSC and the cable companies' QAM-based pseudostandard (ATSC does not provide QAM, but 16VSB for cable).

A dynamic range compressor is not always bad as long as they don't set it to levels where it will distort. But in the case of NBC17 at least they could set their peak to -0.1 dB, even without compressing, and that would make a difference. The way it is now, it's much lower than the rest of the stations. I do prefer WRAL ocassional clipping (which I can't remember when was the last time I heard it) rather than NBC17's low volume.

I do prefer WRAL ocassional clipping (which I can't remember when was the last time I heard it) rather than NBC17's low volume.Clipping happens regularly with some programs on WRAL. One is Numb3rs. I wish they would back audio down about 1 or 2dBs. Their overall volume tends to be louder than that of any other HD station I get, and I always have to adjust volume when I move between WRAL and other channels (not only NBC17).

I know that HDNet does not use a dynamic range compressor, because it was stated in some FAQ on HDNet's website somewhere at http://www.hd.net/. Therefore, could someone compare the local HD stations with HDNet or HDNet Movies as a reference? I did not notice the compression because I am a news junkie who sometimes watches sports in HD and game shows (which are usually SD only), so I do not view material where whispers are important. However, it is much better for whispers to be quiet than unrealistically boosted by a dynamic range compressor when such a boost is not needed in my opinion. I consider dynamic range compression an anachronism with HD which is needed only to get the audio through with NTSC. Therefore I consider dynamic range compression a distortion that is unneded in HD.

Are there any local SageTV users who are doing OTA HD?

I just switched from MythTV to SageTV, and I'm having a heck of a time getting SageTV to comprehend WUNC. If I do a channel scan when 4-2 is off the air, then SageTV will show "no signal" rather than the "come back later" message for 4-2, and later recordings (when 4-2 is active) will fail. Similarly, if I do a channel scan when 4-4 or -5 is inactive, I will see no signal (rather than the "come back later" message), and later recordings when those subchannels are active will fail.

Does anybody else see this?

Thanks,

Drew

According to the schedules on WRAL's web site, HD channels on TWC will be 255 (5.1), 1051, 1052, 1053, and 1054. Does anybody know if there will be QAM sources for the extra channels and, if so, where they will be? 5.4 and 5.5 (TWC 258 and 259) that usually get fired up at ACC Tournament time aren't mentioned.

QAM channels in Durham:

1051 85.2
1052 76.6
1053 76.7
1054 75.8

1061 85.4
1062 85.3
1063 102.4
1064 102.5

They are all available right now, except for 1063 and 1064.

UPDATE: 1063 and 1064 are available as well.

QAM channels in Durham:

1051 85.2
1052 76.6
1053 76.7
1054 75.8

1061 85.4
1062 85.3
1063 102.4
1064 102.5

They are all available right now, except for 1063 and 1064.

I can confirm they are the same in Cary.

Drew

QAM channels in Durham:

1051 85.2
1052 76.6
1053 76.7
1054 75.8

1061 85.4
1062 85.3
1063 102.4
1064 102.5The top four are HD. I'm not able to get 76.7 and 75.8 (1053 and 1054) on Raleigh TWC QAM. Hopefully, they will be fired up as needed when games are scheduled.

Thanks for the replies! :)

I have found that not all QAM tuners are created equal (including the one in my office!). Some miss lable the channel, some find them in the wrong spot and completely miss them!

You may have to hunt around for them.

As much as I'd like to blame this on corporate greed, my guess would be that at 7:55 most people aren't sitting there watching the commercials, they're in the kitchen getting their snacks, the popcorn, the beers, whatever. They interrupt at 8 because that's when they'll have the most viewership and are most likely to get the message out to the largest audience possible.

actually it's because the Easter Bunny is not tuned in at that time.....:rolleyes:

I've recently re-routed my RG6 antenna cable (moved my HTPC to my office after getting the SageTV HD media extender).

I used to have 100 feet of RG6 with an attic mounted CM4228 on one end, and a 4-way combination splitter/amp on the other. The CM4228 is pointed at the towers (17.6 miles away). I now have just 50' of RG6, and really only need a 2 way splitter. My question is, would I be better off replacing the amplified 4-way splitter with an unamplified 2-way splitter?

Drew

I've recently re-routed my RG6 antenna cable (moved my HTPC to my office after getting the SageTV HD media extender).

I used to have 100 feet of RG6 with an attic mounted CM4228 on one end, and a 4-way combination splitter/amp on the other. The CM4228 is pointed at the towers (17.6 miles away). I now have just 50' of RG6, and really only need a 2 way splitter. My question is, would I be better off replacing the amplified 4-way splitter with an unamplified 2-way splitter?

Drew

Not likely necessary if you are getting good results. Just terminate the unused outputs and enjoy. Are you sure you even need an amp? That is a lot of antenna for Cary. Im in Apex with a CM3022 ( http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM3022 ) in the attic with about 50 feet of RG6 and a plain 'ole 2 way splitter and it works great.

I've recently re-routed my RG6 antenna cable (moved my HTPC to my office after getting the SageTV HD media extender).

I used to have 100 feet of RG6 with an attic mounted CM4228 on one end, and a 4-way combination splitter/amp on the other. The CM4228 is pointed at the towers (17.6 miles away). I now have just 50' of RG6, and really only need a 2 way splitter. My question is, would I be better off replacing the amplified 4-way splitter with an unamplified 2-way splitter?

Drew

Not dumb at all and I am sure you will get some good advice from some RF experts. You may want to consider the coming reassignment of channels. Even now, as the number of digital transmissions increased in the past two years adjacent and co-channel problems have crept into the picture. My personal experience has been to try to avoid RF amplification, if possible...but you should let your signal strength guide you.

Not likely necessary if you are getting good results. Just terminate the unused outputs and enjoy. Are you sure you even need an amp? That is a lot of antenna for Cary. Im in Apex with a CM3022 ( http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM3022 ) in the attic with about 50 feet of RG6 and a plain 'ole 2 way splitter and it works great.

I've got an old Air2PC tuner card with an nxt2002, and it is the weakest link. If I have the amp plugged in, it does pretty well. Here is azap output for WRAL with the Air2PC connected to the splitter, amp plugged in:

status 1f | signal fe00 | snr e44e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fdc0 | snr e44e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fdc0 | snr e362 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fdd0 | snr e50a | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fde0 | snr e3f0 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fe00 | snr e47e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd90 | snr e420 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fde0 | snr e44e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fe00 | snr e47e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fdd0 | snr e44e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fdc0 | snr e44e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fde0 | snr e420 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fdd0 | snr e3f0 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK


Then I pull the plug on the amp. Notice the decress in signal, and the increase in uncorrectable errors and the loss of channel lock:

status 1f | signal 7b50 | snr 5a7e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000005 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 7be0 | snr 5a16 | ber 000001a0 | unc 00000004 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 79f0 | snr 7cfa | ber 00002e78 | unc 00000005 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal a280 | snr 5b7e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e300 | snr 823c | ber 00000068 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal ace0 | snr 5cde | ber 00000c48 | unc 00000005 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e980 | snr 8c16 | ber 00001ad8 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 00 | signal 6aa0 | snr 5b2e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 |
status 00 | signal dba0 | snr 700e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 |
status 1f | signal eec0 | snr b71a | ber 00000060 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal eee0 | snr b1fa | ber 00000058 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal ef40 | snr ae50 | ber 00000010 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal efd0 | snr b892 | ber 00000038 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal ef10 | snr a6fe | ber 00000048 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fe00 | snr e3c0 | ber 00000428 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

If I plug the card right into the wall, bypassing the amplified splitter the signal seems fine:

status 1f | signal fdc0 | snr e392 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd50 | snr e3c0 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fdb0 | snr e304 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd40 | snr e334 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd40 | snr e2d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd40 | snr e2d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd40 | snr e12e | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd60 | snr e2d6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd60 | snr e278 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal fd50 | snr e278 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK


So I guess the question is really how much signal degradation should one expect from a splitter? Will a 4-way splitter degrade the signal 2x as much as a 2-way splitter? Does the brand, etc, of the splitter matter?

Drew

I've got an old Air2PC tuner card with an nxt2002, and it is the weakest link. If I have the amp plugged in, it does pretty well. Here is azap output for WRAL with the Air2PC connected to the splitter, amp plugged in:


So I guess the question is really how much signal degradation should one expect from a splitter? Will a 4-way splitter degrade the signal 2x as much as a 2-way splitter? Does the brand, etc, of the splitter matter?

Drew

Unplugging the amp isnt a fair test as its no longer operating properly and the degredation you see is what I would expect. It would seem that you can get rid of the powered splitter and just use a plain unpowered 2 way splitter and you should be fine. A two way splitter reduces each output 3.5-4db below the input strength. A four way splitter reduces each output 7-8db below the input strength. Brand shouldnt matter as they all come from china anyway :) just make sure it has a 1Ghz max frequency.

Not likely necessary if you are getting good results. Just terminate the unused outputs and enjoy. Are you sure you even need an amp? That is a lot of antenna for Cary. Im in Apex with a CM3022 ( http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM3022 ) in the attic with about 50 feet of RG6 and a plain 'ole 2 way splitter and it works great.

Unplugging the amp isnt a fair test as its no longer operating properly and the degredation you see is what I would expect. It would seem that you can get rid of the powered splitter and just use a plain unpowered 2 way splitter and you should be fine. A two way splitter reduces each output 3.5-4db below the input strength. A four way splitter reduces each output 7-8db below the input strength. Brand shouldnt matter as they all come from china anyway :) just make sure it has a 1Ghz max frequency.

Thanks! I'll give it a whirl!

Drew

I've been using OTA for WRAL-DT for about a year now and recently I lost the signal completely. I live in Clayton right down the road from the towers and can get all the other stations fine. Anyone know if anything happened with this signal or if Vista screwed something up like it does with NBC17 (which I'm trying to find the fix for again for the 4th time)? Thanks.

Are you sure you even need an amp? That is a lot of antenna for Cary. Im in Apex with a CM3022 ( http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM3022 ) in the attic with about 50 feet of RG6 and a plain 'ole 2 way splitter and it works great.

Do you get many dropouts in weather? I do; I live in Cary near West Cary Middle School and have a rooftop Radio Shack Yagi U-75R UHF antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088) with a Channel Master 0064 Spartan preamp and 50' of RG6 to my TV. I am pointed directly at the antenna cluster carrying WRAL and WRAZ, which is also near the WTVD tower. My LG HDTV drops out signal occasionally on WRAZ and WTVD on cloudy days. It is sometimes enough to make programs unwatchable. The signal strength meter on the TV sometimes bounces over 30% of its range from bad to good on WTVD and WRAZ. But WRAL is always perfect. I also get WUNC very reliably in the opposite direction of the antenna orientation, oddly enough.

Analog WRAZ on UHF 50 displays strong signal-to-white-noise ratio but significant ghosts from multipath effects, so maybe I need less amplification and more directionality.

I am wondering if I should a) try removing the preamp, b) invest in a rotor to fine tune each station or c) both. I have to borrow a ladder and lower my 10' antenna mast to make these changes, so I hate guessing about what to try.

-Steve Goodridge

There's very little to be gained in adding a rotor if all you're getting is the antenna farm. Your statement "maybe I need less amplification and more directionality" says it all.

Also - that antenna won't be the best after Febuary 17 2009 when WTVD starts doing their digital broadcasting on channel 11. Just something to think about...

I'm no more than a 1 mile from and am currently using 2 home-made DB4's (the youtube coat-hanger antenna)... Also had been using a CM3022 but loaned that to a friend who just went OTA (hence the urge to try the diy antenna)... With both setups I placed the antenna _inside_ my attic aimed at the Clayton farm and get close to 100 on ch 5/11/28, low 90s for 22/17, and mid 80s for 50 (tuner 90's are from a Dish 622 internal OTA tuner). My #s using the 3022 were marginally better. FWIW tvfool gave me a slightly different vs antennaweb.

Also with 50' of RG6. And also decent (low 80s) on WUNC. Not sure why you are getting the dropout on 50...

Mike

Do you get many dropouts in weather? I do; I live in Cary near West Cary Middle School and have a rooftop Radio Shack Yagi UHF antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088 (http://http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088))


I live in Silvergrove, across Evans from WCMS, so our reception should be quite similar. I have an attic mounted CM4228 pointed at the tower, almost no weather related issues. The only time I have weather issues is during torrential rain and high winds. Eg, the sort of thunderstorm we had 2 or 3 weeks ago that got people here complaining about Greg Fischel interrupting the ball game. And even on that night, I had only very minor glitches on WRAZ and none on WRAL.

with a Channel Master 0064 Spartan preamp and 50' of RG6 to my TV. I am pointed directly at the antenna cluster carrying WRAL and WRAZ, which is also near the WTVD tower. My LG HDTV drops out signal occasionally on WRAZ and WTVD on cloudy days. It is sometimes enough to make programs unwatchable. The signal strength meter on the TV sometimes bounces over 30% of its range from bad to good on WTVD and WRAZ. But WRAL is always perfect. I also get WUNC very reliably in the opposite direction of the antenna orientation, oddly enough.

Analog WRAZ on UHF 50 displays strong signal-to-white-noise ratio but significant ghosts from multipath effects, so maybe I need less amplification and more directionality.


I'm not sure what the characteristics of your RS antenna, but I never had good luck getting WUNC off the back of my CM4228. Given that the WUNC and the commercial towers are about 165 degrees apart, and not 180 degrees, I suspect that you might have your antenna pointed about 15 degrees away from the tower (so the back points right at WUNC).

Also, how old is your LG? The tuner makes a huge difference. Things that don't give my 5th gen LG tuner cards any problems at all will give my nxt2002 based 3rd gen card fits. Heck if you still have the receipt for your LG, you might try getting a free CM4228 from WRAL and see if it does any better than your RS antenna.


Good luck,

Drew

I live in Cary near West Cary Middle School...
Steve,

I live in Bexley (off Norwell). I have a yagi in my attic with no preamp. I get 95-98 pct. on all my OTA stations (including WUNC). You may be over amped.

Jeff

Do you get many dropouts in weather? I do; I live in Cary near West Cary Middle School and have a rooftop Radio Shack Yagi UHF antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088 (http://http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088)) with a Channel Master 0064 Spartan preamp and 50' of RG6 to my TV. I am pointed directly at the antenna cluster carrying WRAL and WRAZ, which is also near the WTVD tower. My LG HDTV drops out signal occasionally on WRAZ and WTVD on cloudy days. It is sometimes enough to make programs unwatchable. The signal strength meter on the TV sometimes bounces over 30% of its range from bad to good on WTVD and WRAZ. But WRAL is always perfect. I also get WUNC very reliably in the opposite direction of the antenna orientation, oddly enough.

Analog WRAZ on UHF 50 displays strong signal-to-white-noise ratio but significant ghosts from multipath effects, so maybe I need less amplification and more directionality.

I am wondering if I should a) try removing the preamp, b) invest in a rotor to fine tune each station or c) both. I have to borrow a ladder and lower my 10' antenna mast to make these changes, so I hate guessing about what to try.

-Steve Goodridge

Dont see very many dropouts at all. Signal strength is usually in the 90's with SNR's in the 30's. I would try 'losing' the preamp. You may be overloading the crud out of it :)

Interesting discussion because I am near the corner of Maynard and High House in Cary and also have an attic mounted CM4228 pointed at the towers around 17 miles away. I had started with the smaller CM antenna (4 bays), but could not get consistently good signal strength for 11 and 17. With the the CM4228, signal strength for 5 and 50 is great if pointed directly at those towers and good for 11 and 17 if rotated a few degrees, so I try to hit a happy medium between the two, but this does get dropouts on all but 50 from time to time. I only have a 25' RG6 run from the attic down through the wall to the TV with no amplification. My street is down a hill a bit, however, so I may have some site-line interference even from the attic. Might a signal amplifier help boost the signal enough to minimize the drop-out, or is that overkill from my location?

One other related question, I just got a second HDTV for upstairs and want to route the CM4228 signal to it also. Can I just insert a splitter just off the antenna in the attic with my current setup and feed signal the 12' or so to the second TV?

I live in Silvergrove, across Evans from WCMS, so our reception should be quite similar. I have an attic mounted CM4228 pointed at the tower, almost no weather related issues. ...I'm not sure what the characteristics of your RS antenna, but I never had good luck getting WUNC off the back of my CM4228. ....Also, how old is your LG? The tuner makes a huge difference.

I live at 408 Silvergrove! Of course, trees, hills and other structures could give us different results. My antenna is visible from in front of my driveway if you are curious.

I think I am pointed correctly at WRAL/WRAZ and so forth, although I do get solid reception of WUNC. I also get the Greensboro Fox station! I am a little afraid that switching from the Yagi to a CM4228 would cause me to lose WUNC, which is important to my family. Otherwise, I'm sold.

I think I'll remove my preamp and work on the aim a bit to see if that improves things. Failing that, I'll try getting the CM4228 from WRAL. I should still have the receipt for my 42" LG bought in June 2007.

-Steve

Might a signal amplifier help boost the signal enough to minimize the drop-out, or is that overkill from my location?

I'm no expert, but I'd guess that you're seeing some kind of multipath (like analog ghosting) interference, and amplification would only make it worse. How much time did you spend on moving the antenna around in the attic, trying to find a "sweet spot"? For me, the CM4228 was not very good in some spots, and great in others. It took an hour or two of me crawling around with it, shouting down to the wife to change channels and check the signal strength before I found a really good spot (right over my furnace/ac unit).

One other related question, I just got a second HDTV for upstairs and want to route the CM4228 signal to it also. Can I just insert a splitter just off the antenna in the attic with my current setup and feed signal the 12' or so to the second TV?

I think you're supposed to have equal length cable runs coming off of both sides of the splitter, but this might be an old wives' tale..

Drew

I live at 408 Silvergrove! ... I am a little afraid that switching from the Yagi to a CM4228 would cause me to lose WUNC

I'm a bit downhill from you. And, yes, WUNC is a PITA. I gave up and dedicated a 3rd tuner card and a second antenna to WUNC. The upside is that I can get the Greensboro stations on that card :)

Drew

I live in Bexley (off Norwell). I have a yagi in my attic with no preamp. I get 95-98 pct. on all my OTA stations (including WUNC). You may be over amped.


I started with my Yagi in the attic, and had some signal problems, so I added the CM Spartan preamp, which others have recommended in terms of quality. I convinced myself that the preamp improved things a little, but not enough to give up our cable TV for local channels in rainy/windy weather. So I put up an outdoor mast to install the Yagi above the roof, and kept the preamp. I get better signals most of the time now, but maybe I don't need the preamp.

Question about over-amplification: If overamplification is clipping or distorting my broadband antenna signal BEFORE the tuner, shouldn't that hurt all of my channels, instead of just certain ones, and wouldn't the effect be independent of weather?

Or, are there other side effects of amplification that could be responsible?

I'm actually an electrical engineer, so I like to hear details....

Thanks,
Steve

I am a little afraid that switching from the Yagi to a CM4228 would cause me to lose WUNC, which is important to my family.

According to antennaweb.org, the UNC tower for me is almost the opposite direction from the other towers "down on the farm". I have found that the CM4228 handles this case well and I get a strong signal for WUNC when the CM4228 is pointed at the WRAL towers.

I'm no expert, but I'd guess that you're seeing some kind of multipath (like analog ghosting) interference, and amplification would only make it worse. How much time did you spend on moving the antenna around in the attic, trying to find a "sweet spot"? For me, the CM4228 was not very good in some spots, and great in others. It took an hour or two of me crawling around with it, shouting down to the wife to change channels and check the signal strength before I found a really good spot (right over my furnace/ac unit).


Hmm....I was trying to minimize the cable run when choosing where to mount the CM4228, thinking that no matter where I put it in the attic, it still had to face the same wall. That might be worth some experimenting.

Not sure if all signal strength meters on LCD TVs are equivalent, but on my Sharp, I usually get around 87-92 for 5 and 50, and around 80-85 for 11 and 17 in the current location for the CM4228. I was assuming it was when the signal strength drops down around the mid 70s that I am getting the drop-out which shows up as momentary pixelation.

According to antennaweb.org, the UNC tower for me is almost the opposite direction from the other towers "down on the farm". I have found that the CM4228 handles this case well and I get a strong signal for WUNC when the CM4228 is pointed at the WRAL towers.

I tried that for ~3 months, and it seemed to produce pretty much a bell curve of recordings, where both perfect and unwatchable recordings were the outliers, and mediocre recordings (glitches once a minute or so) were the vast majority. Since the original poster lives ~100 yards from me, I'm assuming he'd have similar problems to me due to the fact that WUNC is not exactly 180 degrees from the commercial towers in our neighborhood.

Drew

Not sure if all signal strength meters on LCD TVs are equivalent, but on my Sharp, I usually get around 87-92 for 5 and 50, and around 80-85 for 11 and 17

I think what you're really looking for is to minimize the fluctuations in the strength. At least on my old Zenith's built-in tuner, I'd see tons of fluctuations when the antenna was not in a good spot, probably due to its poor multipath rejection.

If you've still got an analog tuner, you might actually have better luck fine-tuning your antenna using it. Try to minimize interference and ghosting.

Drew

I've been using OTA for WRAL-DT for about a year now and recently I lost the signal completely. I live in Clayton right down the road from the towers and can get all the other stations fine. Anyone know if anything happened with this signal or if Vista screwed something up like it does with NBC17 (which I'm trying to find the fix for again for the 4th time)? Thanks.

I am in the same boat. I have a VMC PC with a Pinnacle HD Tuner. I received all the normal channels until last week. Now I cannot receive 5, 11, or 28. I switch to my samsung H260 and i get everything perfect. did something happen? do i need to reaquire channels?
I live off Glenwood and Duraleigh using the antenna from WRAL (dont have the model #)

Dave

I am in the same boat. I have a VMC PC with a Pinnacle HD Tuner. I received all the normal channels until last week. Now I cannot receive 5, 11, or 28. I switch to my samsung H260 and i get everything perfect. did something happen? do i need to reaquire channels?
I live off Glenwood and Duraleigh using the antenna from WRAL (dont have the model #)

Dave

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13392481&postcount=5808
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13373004&postcount=4855
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13393009&postcount=5813

WUNC is physical 59.
WRAL is physical 53.
WTVD is physical 52.
WNCN is physical 55.
WLFL is physical 57.
WRDC is physical 27.
WUNP is physical 39.

Not sure which apply to you, so I just listed all of them.

Hope it helps.

- Trip

WUNC is physical 59.
WRAL is physical 53.
WTVD is physical 52.
WNCN is physical 55.
WLFL is physical 57.
WRDC is physical 27.
WUNP is physical 39.


Not sure which apply to you, so I just listed all of them.

Hope it helps.

- Trip


and Post transition (after Feb 17, 2009)

WUNC is physical 25.
WRAL is physical 48.
WTVD is physical 11. <= NOTE - Upper VHF
WNCN is physical 17.
WLFL is physical 27.
WRDC is physical 28.
WUNP is physical 36.
WRAZ is Physical 49, both before and post transition.

If you are a big watcher of WTVD digital - note that you may need a VHF antenna / combo UHF /VHF antenna post transition. If you can currently receive analog channel 11 on your UHF antenna setup - you should be OK.

No, no, did you read my links?

MCE has already APPLIED those channels to its listings, despite the fact the stations aren't there yet.

I provided the list to correct it.

- Trip

I would try 'losing' the preamp.

Okay, I removed the preamp today, and spent some more time fine-tuning the aim, but I still get an unstable signal on WTVD 11.1 and WRAZ 50.1, with dropouts every few minutes even on a clear night like tonight. The signal for these stations averages around 60% of the bar graph on my LG 42LB5D, but drops to near zero occasionally. WRAL 5.1 is perfect, as usual. But now that my preamp is gone, I have lost the Greensboro Fox station and a few others.

When I tune into WRAZ 50 analog, the picture looks strong (no white noise) but with ghosting that comes and goes and moves around. Looks like I have multipath problems.

I am tempted to try the CM4228 now - but maybe a more directional 91xg is a better choice? I am not ready to relocate the antenna to different corners of the house; I have the clearest shot from where I am now, except for a couple of trees. But I'm willing to try a rotor.

Any other suggestions?

Check the connections at the antenna just to be sure water has not gotten into the coax, or balun. I've had this happen.

Also it could very well be that with the trees budding and so on that it has caused some signal blockage. A directional antenna is what will help this...

MCE has already APPLIED those channels to its listings, despite the fact the stations aren't there yet.

Ick! Does anybody know what the transition timeline will be like? Will there be a flag day where all the frequencies change at 3am, or will there be some overlap, or what?

Drew

I am tempted to try the CM4228 now - but maybe a more directional 91xg is a better choice?

Try the 4228. I live ~100 yards from you, and have near perfect reception with a 4228 in the attic. I imagine it would be a lot better outside on your mast (which I saw as I drove by your house yesterday). All it will cost you to try it is a stamp.

Drew

I think what you're really looking for is to minimize the fluctuations in the strength. At least on my old Zenith's built-in tuner, I'd see tons of fluctuations when the antenna was not in a good spot, probably due to its poor multipath rejection.

If you've still got an analog tuner, you might actually have better luck fine-tuning your antenna using it. Try to minimize interference and ghosting.

OK, thanks for the ideas. Looks like I'll need to try a longer RG6 cable so I can move the antenna around in the attic and try and find a better location.

Try the 4228. I live ~100 yards from you, and have near perfect reception with a 4228 in the attic. I imagine it would be a lot better outside on your mast (which I saw as I drove by your house yesterday). All it will cost you to try it is a stamp.
Drew

I will go ahead and apply for the 4228 antenna through WRAL, but I'm a little nervous about the weight and wind pressure it will put on my mast, which is wall-mounted. This is especially an issue if I find that I need to add a rotor to pick up WUNC. I think I'll try a no-rotor setup with the 4228 mounted low, and if that fails, go to the XG91 on a rotor.

I find interesting this page by an antenna user who experimented with both the XG91 and CM4228 on his mast outside. He switched to the XG91 to reduce weight and wind pressure:
http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/antenna.html

A few other users who had multipath issues (especially trees-related) and tried both antennas reported on various boards that they got better results with the XG91.

My near-term goal is to get a reliable enough signal tuned with my HDTV that we can drop Time Warner for local reception of all the networks. My long-term goal is to tune and record locals on an HD-DVR, most likely from the less expensive satellite company, but possibly with a homebrew HTPC. At this point the effort and money I'm spending on repeated antenna experiments won't be paid for by cost savings for a long time, but I work in digital video technology and the hobby play factor keeps it worthwhile.

I will go ahead and apply for the 4228 antenna through WRAL, but I'm a little nervous about the weight and wind pressure it will put on my mast, which is wall-mounted. This is especially an issue if I find that I need to add a rotor to pick up WUNC. I think I'll try a no-rotor setup with the 4228 mounted low, and if that fails, go to the XG91 on a rotor.

I find interesting this page by an antenna user who experimented with both the XG91 and CM4228 on his mast outside. He switched to the XG91 to reduce weight and wind pressure:
http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/antenna.html

A few other users who had multipath issues (especially trees-related) and tried both antennas reported on various boards that they got better results with the XG91.

My near-term goal is to get a reliable enough signal tuned with my HDTV that we can drop Time Warner for local reception of all the networks. My long-term goal is to tune and record locals on an HD-DVR, most likely from the less expensive satellite company, but possibly with a homebrew HTPC. At this point the effort and money I'm spending on repeated antenna experiments won't be paid for by cost savings for a long time, but I work in digital video technology and the hobby play factor keeps it worthwhile.

I think the problem here was that the 4228 and the VHF Hi were mounted too close together, and that was causing issues. Also with that height over the roof the author most certainly should have used guy wires.

Ick! Does anybody know what the transition timeline will be like? Will there be a flag day where all the frequencies change at 3am, or will there be some overlap, or what?

Drew

Should be 11:59PM on February 17, 2009, but that may not be exact.

- Trip

I have wondered exactly what will happen at 11:59. I know I will definitely be watching to find out. I would assume the stations will have some fanfare associated with the changeover.

Well, it may not be exactly that time. I know that some areas will be seeing stations terminating early and whatnot.

One I can think of is Chico/Redding, California. Their PBS will be shutting off analog in August of this year and moving their digital (18) to the analog channel (9) shortly after. Their CBS and NBC stations plan to terminate analog (the NBC will be returning to its analog) in January of 2009. When the shutoff date arrives, only ABC and FOX will still be available on analog, assuming they don't decide to shut off early too due to the silencing of the other three stations in the market.

- Trip

I will go ahead and apply for the 4228 antenna through WRAL, but I'm a little nervous about the weight

You might be able to go back to keeping the 4228 in the attic.


My long-term goal is to tune and record locals on an HD-DVR, most likely from the less expensive satellite company, but possibly with a homebrew HTPC.

I *highly* reccommend SageTV and their HD100 media extender. For $250 (windows combo pkg), or $280 ($200 for HD100 + $80 for Linux or MacOSX license) you get a tiny, quiet dedicated HD media extender box to put near the TV that does near perfect HD playback, and runs the SageTV gui (including automatic commerical skipping on recordings/imported videos, etc). The server software goes on your PC (or Mac, or Linux box), which can be in a different room. It is the best of both worlds, as you have the recording done on a very low-end general purpose PC (and can transcode for iPod, PSP, etc without DRM worries), and you have a hardware playback device you don't need to spend months fine-tuning like one can wind up doing with an HTPC.

I got one of these a few weeks ago and I *love* it. After years of playback issues with an HTPC running MythTV, it is wonderful to have properly deinterlaced 1080i and to get the PC out of the living room where it was loud, and I had to worry about my toddler powering it off, etc. The only drawback is that WUNC confuses the heck out of SageTV. If you do a channel scan when UNC-HD is inactive, you can never tune to UNC-HD even when it is active (and if you rescan when it is active, you loose UNC-NC and UNC-ED). I've got a bug report on this open with them. Hopefully they'll get it fixed soon.

Drew

You might be able to go back to keeping the 4228 in the attic.
... The only drawback is that WUNC confuses the heck out of SageTV. If you do a channel scan when UNC-HD is inactive, you can never tune to UNC-HD even when it is active (and if you rescan when it is active, you lose UNC-NC and UNC-ED).
Drew

Are you getting WUNC (to the west) on the same 4228 antenna as WRAL/WRAZ/WTVD etc. to the east?

The attic is probably worth trying again. My HVAC unit is in the middle of the east wall of my attic; getting the antenna line of sight away from it will be more difficult with the big 4228 than my small Radio Shack Yagi. I probably won't have room for the option to rotate the 4228 to get WUNC if it doesn't pick it up from the back like the Yagi does.

It sounds like your Sage-TV/media extender suggestion makes the most sense for me if I don't buy a satellite service. I'm sure that I can't build an HTPC with video quality that I'm willing to watch at such a price, even using parts on hand from myself and friends. I am a terrible snob about interlace artifacts, frame rate judder and tearing....

Are you getting WUNC (to the west) on the same 4228 antenna as WRAL/WRAZ/WTVD etc. to the east?

As I said above, I tried it for a few months. The recording quality was a bell curve, with about 10% being unwatchable, about 10% perfect, and about 80% a little glitchy, but watchable. I gave up and put a second 4228 in the attic pointed at WUNC, and gave WUNC a dedicated antenna and tuner card. The family is much happier now.


The attic is probably worth trying again. My HVAC unit is in the middle of the east wall of my attic; getting the antenna line of sight away from it will be more difficult with the big 4228 than my small Radio Shack Yagi. I probably won't have room for the option to rotate the 4228 to get WUNC if it doesn't pick it up from the back like the Yagi does.


For me, the HVAC unit actually seems to help reception. I have the 4228s hanging over it.


It sounds like your Sage-TV/media extender suggestion makes the most sense for me if I don't buy a satellite service. I'm sure that I can't build an HTPC with video quality that I'm willing to watch at such a price, even using parts on hand from myself and friends. I am a terrible snob about interlace artifacts, frame rate judder and tearing....

You'll have to walk over and check it out some weekend..

Drew

I saw over on Engadget that the Triad just got the Discovery Suite (Discovery Channel HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD and Science HD). Here's hoping we're next!

I just wanted to post here that I just picked up my first HDTV, and while waiting for satellite hook up (not until) next week I decided to try an indoor antenna. I'm in Chapel Hill and figured an indoor likely wouldn't be strong enough to pull signals from Raleigh. I went to Radio Shack and got their $50 indoor antenna and it works very well. I get all the HD channels out of the Raleigh area, plus all the other stuff you can pick up with a digital tuner (or whatever). The antenna is pretty ugly (looks like the Starship Enterprise) but it works from Chapel Hill. The manager pointed out they have an outdoor version of the same thing that is smaller and could easily hang from an overhang.

I saw over on Engadget that the Triad just got the Discovery Suite (Discovery Channel HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD and Science HD). Here's hoping we're next!

Yea, but lets hope they don't do it like the last "upgrade", cramming three HD channels into the space needed for two HD signals.
HDLite is not what I want.

Frank

As of March 31st, both Food Network HD and HGTV HD will begin mirroring their normal channels and not have a separate schedule.

I'm exciting and nervous at the same time. There are many shows on both stations that I haven't seen in a while because I've become an HD snob and can't watch most SD stuff anymore ;).

I'm worried, because even though all the shows currently are HD on both stations, the commercials are stretched. I sure hope that they'll continue showing HD versions of all their stuff...I sure hope they don't start showing stretched crap. I'd rather be stuck with the same 6 shows rotated all day like they are now if they're in HD than put up with more stretched programming.

The other thing that I'm bummed about, is that the wife and I watch HGTV HD every night at 10 before bed. They have a different show each night at 10. Unfortunately, as of April 1st it will be House Hunters every night at 10. I can deal with HH once a week, but not every night. Looks like I'm going to need to get a DVR for the bedroom.

As of March 31st, both Food Network HD and HGTV HD will begin mirroring their normal channels and not have a separate schedule.

I'm worried, because even though all the shows currently are HD on both stations, the commercials are stretched. I sure hope that they'll continue showing HD versions of all their stuff...I sure hope they don't start showing stretched crap. I'd rather be stuck with the same 6 shows rotated all day like they are now if they're in HD than put up with more stretched programming.




Yup, more stretched crap. Unbelievable. Talk about taking a step backwards..

Anybody know whats going on with ESPNEWSHD on TWC?

Anybody know whats going on with ESPNEWSHD on TWC?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/espn033008.htm

Yeah ive seen that but I rmeant really anything from time warner directly. Something concrete.

I saw over on Engadget that the Triad just got the Discovery Suite (Discovery Channel HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD and Science HD). Here's hoping we're next!

I wouldn't count on it. They already had CNN-HD, History-HD, and Lifetime-HD and we still have yet to see them. I emailed them TW in Raleigh a couple days ago complaining about the lack of new HD channels while other divisions have been adding them (I specifically mentioned Greensboro). I usually get the canned we are constantly negotiating and looking to add, blah blah blah. This time I got a "we have no idea if and when any new HD channels will be added" response.:mad:

I wouldn't count on it. They already had CNN-HD, History-HD, and Lifetime-HD and we still have yet to see them. I emailed them TW in Raleigh a couple days ago complaining about the lack of new HD channels while other divisions have been adding them (I specifically mentioned Greensboro). I usually get the canned we are constantly negotiating and looking to add, blah blah blah. This time I got a "we have no idea if and when any new HD channels will be added" response.:mad:

I emailed George Douglas, who use to be the VP of marketing for TWC in the Raleigh area and asked him about Navigator,Switched Digital and more HD. However, he has since moved to Charlotte and has the same position there. However, George still took the time to research my question and wrote me back with this response:

I have seen the schedule for the role out of the Navigator in the Raleigh/Fayetteville areas. It will be done by box type (not geography) beginning within the next week and should be completed by mid-June. The schedule for switched digital(SD) (and a significant increase in HD channels) has not been finalized. It is my understanding that it will happen this year but I cannot really estimate a date. Management is fully focused on getting into SD and more channels as soon as possible. The only delay is making sure that it works very well for our customers and will not create service problems.

Looks like we've got some more waiting to do. I emailed him back and asked if he knew if any more HD channels would be added before SD came online. Since he is in Charlotte now he may not know but if he offers any insight I'll post it.

I saw over on Engadget that the Triad just got the Discovery Suite (Discovery Channel HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD and Science HD). Here's hoping we're next!

Well I just read that these are more stretched channels...so thanks but no thanks...

A couple of weeks ago I noticed ABC's picture quality had been degraded quite a lot, showing pixelation even on quiet scenes. Since I have Eli Stone set to record every episode and keep it until deleted I had the episode from 3/20, 3/27 and 4/3. So that I could check the bitrate I transferred a bit of each of them from my Time Warner cable DVR to my computer through firewire and played the segments back in VLC player. There I saw it very clearly: The episode from 3/20, which looks fine, plays back at around 12 Mbit/s. The other two play at 4 Mbit/s!!

I don't live in a good reception area to check OTA reception and even if I did I would have no way to transfer it to the computer and check the bitrate. I haven't noticed a degradation in the other Raleigh networks, so I don't want to jump and say that Time Warner cable is screwing us (although knowing them I wouldn't put it past them), but I would say something needs to be done.

Does anybody here know what's the deal with the local networks and cable? Do they just relay the digital OTA feed they get, or do they recompress it further? And also, can anyone with good OTA reception check on ABC and see if it looks decent?

Thanks

Does anybody here know what's the deal with the local networks and cable? Do they just relay the digital OTA feed they get, or do they recompress it further? And also, can anyone with good OTA reception check on ABC and see if it looks decent?


I use SageTV (PVR) OTA, and the files I see for new recordings off of ABC are tiny, and the PQ seems less than other stations. We recorded "Miss Guided" (don't ask) and the files are rougly 1.75Gb/s for 1/2 hour, or 3.5GB/hr (8Mb/s). This compares to 6-7GB/hr (13-19Mb/s) on the other major networks.

According to the linux dvbtraffic utility, they seem to be dynamically allocating bandwidth, and devoting a huge amount of bandwidth to their SD 11-2 (nearly 7Mb/s). Wow!

-PID--FREQ-----BANDWIDTH-BANDWIDTH-
0000 10 p/s 1 kb/s 16 kbit
0030 1 p/s 0 kb/s 2 kbit
0031 4269 p/s 783 kb/s 6421 kbit
0034 260 p/s 47 kb/s 392 kbit
0040 1 p/s 0 kb/s 2 kbit
0041 4580 p/s 840 kb/s 6888 kbit
0044 130 p/s 23 kb/s 196 kbit
0050 1 p/s 0 kb/s 2 kbit
0051 2483 p/s 455 kb/s 3734 kbit
0054 130 p/s 23 kb/s 196 kbit
1d00 13 p/s 2 kb/s 20 kbit
1e00 33 p/s 6 kb/s 50 kbit
1e01 1 p/s 0 kb/s 2 kbit
1ffb 13 p/s 2 kb/s 20 kbit
2000 11936 p/s 2191 kb/s 17952 kbit

0x41 is the vid of 11-2. Notice how it has MORE bandwidth than their hd 11-1? Granted, this is daytime upconverted SD-programming, but the b/w give to 11-2 still seems insane.

Drew

Posting here both to whine about it and to see if anyone knows of a fix:

We'll often put on PBS Kids OnDemand in the morning and let the kids watch Thomas or JayJay or Sesame Street or whatever. The problem is that when actually sitting on the OnDemand channel, the preview window shows generic OnDemand previews. With the entertainment's recent proclivity for ignoring the target audience with their previews ("All Audiences" rarely are appropriate), this can be a problem.

Anyone know how to turn that window off or get it to showing family-friendly previews? I'm guessing "no" and I'll just have to write TWC about the issue.

We recorded "Miss Guided" (don't ask)
Drew



Don't ask? It's a great show! Judy Greer is awesome! ;)

Looking at those numbers, it makes me wonder if WTVD has installed a statistical multiplexer and hasn't configured it correctly. It might be worth giving them a call about the decreased quality.

- Trip

First time poster and digital user so thought I'd share my first experience with DTV/HDTV in the Raleigh area.

I live west of Chapel Hill and have an analog TV with a 10 year old roof mount Gemini 360 antenna with rotor and Channel Master Spartan 3 signal booster. Bought a Zenith DTT900 converter box and hooked it up on the weekend. Aside from the sound problem (buzz/hiss) on the DTT900 I got marginal reception of local digital other than WUNC, which is just down the road. The sound would cut in and out and the signal fluctuate. Signal strength was just above marginal. I investigated the coax I was using and with some research found the RG59 I had installed from the antenna to the signal booster was inadaquate. It appeared that RG11 would be a better upgrade. At the local Lowes they only carry RG6 and RG6 Quad Shield. So I bought 50 feet of the RG6 Quad as well as 3 feet of RG6 and two new 300ohm/coax connectors for replacement on the antenna. I took the antenna off the roof and cleaned the hook-ups on the antenna, replaced the 300ohm/coax connectors and the 3 feet of coax with new RG6.

Once all the components were hooked up the reception is like night and day. No fading out of sound or picture. I also now get all stations but Fox50 without moving the antenna. For channel 50 I just need to tweak the antenna rotor. The signal strength is not quite in the "good" zone on the signal strength indicator (other than WUNC) but the small fluctuation in signal strength is not enough to affect reception.

Because of the sound issue (yet to be resolved by Zenith) I would not recommend the Zenith DTT900 box. But I would advise that anyone going to digital make sure the coax is the proper type and your connections good.

Which brings me to a question I hope someone can answer. What is the difference between RG11 and RG6? From research RG11 is low line loss over long runs but RG6 is rated as low signal loss. RG11 is also what DirectTV uses. Would I get even better reception with RG11? When doing resistance comparisons between RG11 and RG59 the RG11 was about 1/3 the line loss but RG6 was about the same line loss as RG59. Obviously something I'm not understanding.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed ABC's picture quality had been degraded quite a lot, showing pixelation even on quiet scenes. ... The episode from 3/20, which looks fine, plays back at around 12 Mbit/s. The other two play at 4 Mbit/s!!

I don't live in a good reception area to check OTA reception and even if I did I would have no way to transfer it to the computer and check the bitrate. I haven't noticed a degradation in the other Raleigh networks, so I don't want to jump and say that Time Warner cable is screwing us (although knowing them I wouldn't put it past them), but I would say something needs to be done.

Does anybody here know what's the deal with the local networks and cable? Do they just relay the digital OTA feed they get, or do they recompress it further? And also, can anyone with good OTA reception check on ABC and see if it looks decent?

Thanks

I know the deal, mainly because I got an email from TWC this morning in reply to my EXACT SAME THING I NOTICED that you did, except it was Dancing With the Stars! TWC does not, in any way, change, modify, or compress any of the local broadcast stations. I'd tend to agree with the other poster that the problem is at WTVD. By the way, the TWC people took my signal complaint seriously, and their engineer said they were going to call WTVD to see what might be up. I was impressed with the service I got from TWC. Maybe someone will now get to the bottom of it.

Thanks,
Wayne
P.S. I had previously filled out WTVD's web page contact form with the same question, and was thoroughly ignored.

I emailed George Douglas, who use to be the VP of marketing for TWC in the Raleigh area and asked him about Navigator,Switched Digital and more HD. However, he has since moved to Charlotte and has the same position there. However, George still took the time to research my question and wrote me back with this response:

I have seen the schedule for the role out of the Navigator in the Raleigh/Fayetteville areas. It will be done by box type (not geography) beginning within the next week and should be completed by mid-June. The schedule for switched digital(SD) (and a significant increase in HD channels) has not been finalized. It is my understanding that it will happen this year but I cannot really estimate a date. Management is fully focused on getting into SD and more channels as soon as possible. The only delay is making sure that it works very well for our customers and will not create service problems.

Looks like we've got some more waiting to do. I emailed him back and asked if he knew if any more HD channels would be added before SD came online. Since he is in Charlotte now he may not know but if he offers any insight I'll post it.

Hey thanks for the info. Hopefully by summer at the latest we'll see some additions.

Last night all my QAM channels disappeared! I live in Apex and have TWC. The six, or so, QAM channels have been perfect for a long while. Anyone get this problem, or is it me?

My config is simply the cable straight to my 32" Westinghouse LCD. All analog channels were fine but all QAM (5.1, 11.1, 50.1, etc.) were gone!

Do the lottery numbers really have to air when it takes the National Championship game back to SD in a little box with 1:15 left?

Do the lottery numbers really have to air when it takes the National Championship game back to SD in a little box with 1:15 left?
+1:mad::mad::mad:

Last night all my QAM channels disappeared! I live in Apex and have TWC. The six, or so, QAM channels have been perfect for a long while. Anyone get this problem, or is it me?

I'm in Cary, and my QAM seemed OK last night when I checked. Maybe they put a filter on your line?

Drew

It's back! It magically disappeared and magically reappeared!

Yeah, please use some of the millions and get an HD capable switcher for the lottery. It was a good example of how much better HD looks than SD though. ;)

Yeah, please use some of the millions and get an HD capable switcher for the lottery. It was a good example of how much better HD looks than SD though. ;)

It's funny this subject has been brought up... Friday night during David Letterman, WRAL was running a weather crawl in HD with the Late Show in HD at the same time. Oddly enough though, Saturday's programming was shunted back to SD when they ran crawls. I've also noticed that their programming spots are now in HD for the most part. Maybe they aren't finished converting everything over yet. I would think that the NCEL spots should be in HD relatively soon. Maybe they haven't gotten the equipment completely integrated yet?

Do the lottery numbers really have to air when it takes the National Championship game back to SD in a little box with 1:15 left?

I keep wondering this myself. I understand that they typically run the lottery numbers around 11:00pm every night... but it seems like anyone up that late for the lottery numbers could wait another half hour if the game goes late.

Plus, IF you didn't win then it doesn't matter... IF you did win, you can check online or call to find out the winning numbers or take the ticket to a store to check, etc... it's not like you only get one shot to find out if you have a winning ticket.

Interrupting to a major news item or weather bulletin of importance is one thing... but interrupting for lottery numbers makes no sense.

Yeah, please use some of the millions and get an HD capable switcher for the lottery. It was a good example of how much better HD looks than SD though. ;)

The lottery execs will get a big-time raise when they complete this.

Yeah, please use some of the millions and get an HD capable switcher for the lottery. It was a good example of how much better HD looks than SD though. ;)


I think we have a syndication distribution issue here. For the NC lottery drawings, the drawings are actually held/produced at WRAL's studios and then they are distributed to the exclusive lottery stations across the state. I would guess that WRAL also produces the graphics like those that came up during the National Championship game showing the winning numbers. I guessing that all of those stations aren't able to receive and rebroadcast a HD signal(like some can't with WOF, Jeopardy etc) so WRAL only does it in SD. Why they don't take the time to do it for their own broadcast since everything else is HD, I don't know but that would explain why they were able to do the weather crawl in HD during Letterman the other night.

Oh joy.... I got the dreaded email saying that my two SA boxes will be updated to Navigator within the next week... Im not looking forward to this.

Oh joy.... I got the dreaded email saying that my two SA boxes will be updated to Navigator within the next week... Im not looking forward to this.

Did you get a glossy mailing first? I received one yesterday saying they would call the night before (how easy it will be, etc.). Right, sure!

Oh joy.... I got the dreaded email saying that my two SA boxes will be updated to Navigator within the next week... Im not looking forward to this.

Well, it looks like they are going to do it in spite of all the negative reports on Navigator.

Well, it looks like they are going to do it in spite of all the negative reports on Navigator.

they have no choice. It's the only way they can compete on any competitive HD level now.

The words "eggs" and "basket" come to mind.

they have no choice. It's the only way they can compete on any competitive HD level now.

This may be a dumb question but I'm not very techie. What does HD have to do with Navigator? When they go to Navigator, does this mean that I can get caller ID info on my TV screen? (something they have been advertising on their web site but is not available in Raleigh)

This may be a dumb question but I'm not very techie. What does HD have to do with Navigator? When they go to Navigator, does this mean that I can get caller ID info on my TV screen? (something they have been advertising on their web site but is not available in Raleigh)

For more HD capability they need software on boxes that supports switched digital video services. Since TWC did not license the SDV version of Passport in favor of their broken in-house developed Navigator, the Navigator IPG is the only SDV choice they have and the only way we will get significantly more HD.

Caller-ID and Start Over are the two things they keep touting to try and sell people on Navigator, but the rest of Navigator is just a feature crippled version of Passport. They don't mention that Passport was upgraded a long time ago to offer Caller-ID but was never offered to TWC subscribers or that Start Over is still not a widely distributed service yet.

This may be a dumb question but I'm not very techie. What does HD have to do with Navigator? When they go to Navigator, does this mean that I can get caller ID info on my TV screen? (something they have been advertising on their web site but is not available in Raleigh)

Navigator allows for the implementation of SDV (Switched Digital Video). This will allow TWC to reclaim bandwidth for more HD channels. As far as caller ID, I have no idea. :)

What is the likelihood that we will loose our recorded shows and/or recorder settings during this change to Navigator?

What is the likelihood that we will loose our recorded shows and/or recorder settings during this change to Navigator?

As long as you have enough free space on your DVR for the push to download, you shouldn't lose recorded shows. The only time shows have been lost is when someone's DVR was full and shows had to be deleted to make room for the push. As for recorder settings, those have been pretty hit or miss.

Wow, they don;t have a protected area on the drive for stuff like this?

Sorry for the duffus question, but how do I tell how full my disk is? I have never seen anything in the menus.

Sorry for the duffus question, but how do I tell how full my disk is? I have never seen anything in the menus.

If you're on Passport, tune to channel 999 and navigate (haha) to the disk AVFS menu at the bottom of the list.

Yes, that is the only way I have been able to do this in the past. Do we know what threshold of fullness is enough to be under for the update?

Yes, that is the only way I have been able to do this in the past. Do we know what threshold of fullness is enough to be under for the update?


The navigator thread is probably the best place to find that answer.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

I received one of the WRAL HDTV antennas and it's unlikely I'm ever going to use it. If someone in the WRAL viewing area wants it for what I paid for it ($0) send me a PM and we can arrange something. I live in Cary near Cary Towne Center and work in Raleigh near Atlantic Ave. & Highwoods. If you have an indoor HDTV antenna to trade that would be great.

Jim

Re: The switch to Navigator

Thanks for the replies. I have priced out a switch to DirecTV, just in case....The cost is nearly the same as TWC, once you factor in the equipment costs etc of the first year, and the discounts. Hmmmmm.

Has anyone had issues with NBC17 OTA reception as of 4/10? For some reason I am unable to get this channel as of today and The Office starts tonight! :)

Anyone else in the Cary area having issues with NBC17 coming in?

Thanks!

-Laz

PS Using a Terk HDTVa antenna/HVR-1600 card/BeyondTV on XP and haven't had any issues until last night/today.

Has anyone had issues with NBC17 OTA reception as of 4/10? For some reason I am unable to get this channel as of today and The Office starts tonight! :)

Anyone else in the Cary area having issues with NBC17 coming in?

Thanks!

-Laz

PS Using a Terk HDTVa antenna/HVR-1600 card/BeyondTV on XP and haven't had any issues until last night/today.

Its coming in fine for me right now.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm not sure why mine is no longer coming in. All other channels seem to be fine, and I've even switched out antennas and tuner cards to be sure.

Called a station engineer and he said he was getting a 94 signal strength on it. I'll keep looking further - thanks for letting me know!

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm not sure why mine is no longer coming in. All other channels seem to be fine, and I've even switched out antennas and tuner cards to be sure.

Called a station engineer and he said he was getting a 94 signal strength on it. I'll keep looking further - thanks for letting me know!

Leaves?

Is your antenna indoor or outdoor?

A change in season often changes your ability (or inability) to receive signals.

Jeff

Ahh, that's a very good point! I hadn't even thought about that. That could very well be the case, as there are leaves coming onto a big tree in our front yard and I've only had the OTA HD PC for the last week or so.

A friend of mine told me to replace the (cheap) ends on my Terk indoor antenna and that should make a difference, but leaves sound like a legitimate culprit.

Would I have to go with an outdoor antenna in that case or would an amp be enough to boost it?

Thanks a bunch!

Would I have to go with an outdoor antenna in that case or would an amp be enough to boost it?


That's a good question to which I have no answer. My solution was pretty simple, I have an antenna mounted in my attic and it works very well. I live in Cary, just off Norwell.

hey guys. i have a problem.

i live in raleigh NC and vista media center picks up every channel but nbc with my hdtv tuner.

i found a fix here before but cannot find it now. basically i had to modify a txt file or something and change some data to get media center to recognize nbc (17.1) i recently moved my computer and evidently pluged my tuner into a different usb port and had to reconfigure media center, thereby losing the old data. if someone could direct me to the correct thread to find my answer, i would appreciate it. thanks!!

Got an e-mail today from TWC with this as part of the e-mail.
You are scheduled to receive Navigator on one or more boxes in your home within the next week. The transition to the new Navigator on-screen guide will take about two months to complete, therefore if you have multiple cable boxes in your home, you may not see the new guide appear on all boxes at the same time. We will give you a courtesy call the day before you are scheduled to receive the new on-screen guide for each box in your home. You are not required to be at home during the time the software upgrade takes place.
It's a coming. :eek: