I'd love to find out why HD on NBC17 is so blurry. My wife and I were excited to watch the Office and Scrubs last night. We had to turn it off a few minutes in because the blur was giving us both a headache..

I'd love to find out why HD on NBC17 is so blurry. My wife and I were excited to watch the Office and Scrubs last night. We had to turn it off a few minutes in because the blur was giving us both a headache..

NBC17 has the worst HD broadcasting equipment in the area. The blur you see is a motion blur. Every frame you see carries a trail of about four frames before it, so the picture quality, which is already quite poor, gets even worse by this video defect. If you have cable and receive TNT HD, check ER on TNT and then on NBC17. On TNT it looks much closer to what it should be, while on NBC17 it looks awful.

In the case of Scrubs it's not totally NBC17's fault, that's more NBC's fault because they treat this great show like the relative that no one wants to see at family reunions. They show it in SD upconverted, and a terrible upconversion. It's great that next season Scrubs is moving to ABC, where I'm sure it will be shown in HD, albeit 720p, but a lot better than the current.

I wish there was a way to make NBC17 buy decent HD equipment. I watch several shows on NBC and it really sucks that they look so bad.

In the case of Scrubs it's not totally NBC17's fault, that's more NBC's fault because they treat this great show like the relative that no one wants to see at family reunions. They show it in SD upconverted, and a terrible upconversion. It's great that next season Scrubs is moving to ABC, where I'm sure it will be shown in HD, albeit 720p, but a lot better than the current.

I wish there was a way to make NBC17 buy decent HD equipment. I watch several shows on NBC and it really sucks that they look so bad.



They treat Scrubs like the red-headed stepchild because it's an ABC produced show. It's been confirmed that it's going to have one more season after this one, on ABC. I'd love to see them give the final season the HD treatment.

edit: I suppose if I read all of what you wrote, I wouldn't have bothered making this post repeating everything you said ;)

NBC17 has the worst HD broadcasting equipment in the area. The blur you see is a motion blur. Every frame you see carries a trail of about four frames before it, so the picture quality, which is already quite poor, gets even worse by this video defect. If you have cable and receive TNT HD, check ER on TNT and then on NBC17. On TNT it looks much closer to what it should be, while on NBC17 it looks awful.

In the case of Scrubs it's not totally NBC17's fault, that's more NBC's fault because they treat this great show like the relative that no one wants to see at family reunions. They show it in SD upconverted, and a terrible upconversion. It's great that next season Scrubs is moving to ABC, where I'm sure it will be shown in HD, albeit 720p, but a lot better than the current.

I wish there was a way to make NBC17 buy decent HD equipment. I watch several shows on NBC and it really sucks that they look so bad.

Woah woah woah! This post has just blown my mind (actually made me very happy). I thought I was losing my mind with NBC's motion blur. Every time I saw it, I would wonder if this was an issue with LCD response times, even though I don't have issues on other channels when watching higher paced things like sports.

But almost more importantly...SCRUBS LIVES ON?! Do you have a link to more on that? You've just made my day :)

Woah woah woah! This post has just blown my mind (actually made me very happy). I thought I was losing my mind with NBC's motion blur. Every time I saw it, I would wonder if this was an issue with LCD response times, even though I don't have issues on other channels when watching higher paced things like sports.

But almost more importantly...SCRUBS LIVES ON?! Do you have a link to more on that? You've just made my day :)

http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=27bd7007-17a3-4b43-9b80-011d425995ec

Thank you WRAZ for not showing the Yanks/Sox game in HD today. I've verified that it's HD pretty much everywhere else, so yeah, it's our local fox..

Thank you WRAZ for not showing the Yanks/Sox game in HD today. I've verified that it's HD pretty much everywhere else, so yeah, it's our local fox..

Yeah, I noticed there was a tornado crawl during the pregame, so I guess that's why they started in SD (still unacceptable, but there was at least a reason for it) but then they stayed SD throughout for NO APPARENT reason!!!

I bet if they try this crap on the Nascar race coming up, it won't fly, but baseball gets the shaft.

Still SD for NASCAR too!!!!

They finally flipped the switch.

First time poster and digital user so thought I'd share my first experience with DTV/HDTV in the Raleigh area.

I live west of Chapel Hill and have an analog TV with a 10 year old roof mount Gemini 360 antenna with rotor and Channel Master Spartan 3 signal booster. Bought a Zenith DTT900 converter box and hooked it up on the weekend. Aside from the sound problem (buzz/hiss) on the DTT900 I got marginal reception of local digital other than WUNC, which is just down the road. The sound would cut in and out and the signal fluctuate. Signal strength was just above marginal. I investigated the coax I was using and with some research found the RG59 I had installed from the antenna to the signal booster was inadaquate. It appeared that RG11 would be a better upgrade. At the local Lowes they only carry RG6 and RG6 Quad Shield. So I bought 50 feet of the RG6 Quad as well as 3 feet of RG6 and two new 300ohm/coax connectors for replacement on the antenna. I took the antenna off the roof and cleaned the hook-ups on the antenna, replaced the 300ohm/coax connectors and the 3 feet of coax with new RG6.

Once all the components were hooked up the reception is like night and day. No fading out of sound or picture. I also now get all stations but Fox50 without moving the antenna. For channel 50 I just need to tweak the antenna rotor. The signal strength is not quite in the "good" zone on the signal strength indicator (other than WUNC) but the small fluctuation in signal strength is not enough to affect reception.

Because of the sound issue (yet to be resolved by Zenith) I would not recommend the Zenith DTT900 box. But I would advise that anyone going to digital make sure the coax is the proper type and your connections good.

Which brings me to a question I hope someone can answer. What is the difference between RG11 and RG6? From research RG11 is low line loss over long runs but RG6 is rated as low signal loss. RG11 is also what DirectTV uses. Would I get even better reception with RG11? When doing resistance comparisons between RG11 and RG59 the RG11 was about 1/3 the line loss but RG6 was about the same line loss as RG59. Obviously something I'm not understanding.

RG-6 cable has 18 AWG cable in it, and will fit any cable-ready television. RG-59 cable has 20 AWG or smaller cable in it, and will fit any cable-ready consumer electronics device. Generally, this is the best choice for inside a house due to its low loss and enough flexibility to work with should the wiring need to be repaired, replaced, or upgraded.

RG-11 cable can vary from 14-18 AWG cable inside, but is usually 14 AWG cable. Many products do not accept RG-11 cable because the center conductor is too big to fit the inside of the connector. The only products that are generally designed to accept RG-11 are products involved in the distribution of cable from the head end to the houses, where low losses, no need for flexibility, and long distances from the headend make this an ideal cable for cable distribution. Its lack of flexibility and its oversized conductor generally rules it out for connecting standard consumer electronics equipment together.

RG-59 cable can vary from 20-23 AWG cable inside, and is unsuitable for broadband use (e.g. cable TV, OTA reception) at all but short distances where the short distances prevent the cable from damaging critical high frequency signals too much. However, it is a great cable for baseband uses like making inexpensive component cable, S/PDIF cable, and cable for a closed circuit TV system or security camera system because high frequency losses are irrelevant to these low frequency applications. RG-59 is also great for situations where maximum flexibility is the overriding concern due to its small size.

Buyer beware, because pathetic RG-6 cables can be beaten by good RG-59 cables. Just because a cable advertises RG-6 does not mean that it is better than the RG-59 you have. Read the cable's datasheet before you buy cable to make sure you are getting low signal loss. When reading a cable datasheet, the critical loss figure right now is the loss at 1 GHz, because the current highest frequency cable equipment can transmit and receive on is 1 GHz.

The same thing could be said about quad-shielded RG-6 vs. dual-shielded RG-6. Generally, if the same quality is used in manufacturing both, quad-shileded cable beats dual-shielded cable. However, the best RG-6 for CATV according to others on this forum, Belden 1694A, is a dual-shielded cable.

The same thing could be said about quad-shielded RG-6 vs. dual-shielded RG-6. Generally, if the same quality is used in manufacturing both, quad-shileded cable beats dual-shielded cable. However, the best RG-6 for CATV according to others on this forum, Belden 1694A, is a dual-shielded cable.

Unlike the stuff you can buy at Lowes and Home Depot, Belden RG6 has better quality shielding. The Lowes brands usually have only something like 65% coverage for the braid, the Belden uses 95% braid coverage plus a solid copper core and not a copper wrapped steel core for better signal transfer.

Even if it's quad-shield, if the braid is poorly assembled to leave lots of gaps then it won't be an improvement over well made dual.

NBC17 has the worst HD broadcasting equipment in the area.
<....>
Scrubs is moving to ABC, where I'm sure it will be shown in HD, albeit 720p, but a lot better than the current.


Have you watched anything on ABC11 lately? I think they are jealous of NBC17's poor quality, and trying to do them one better (or is it worse..). For the last few weeks, they've been running their 11-1 HD channel at less than 8Mb/s, and any fast motion results in a massive blob of pixelization. If anything, I expect that scrubs will look *worse* on ABC, since all ABC shows look like garbage thanks to ABC11. If they don't fix this for college football season, I may have to put up an bigger antenna to try to get WXLV reliably.

Drew

Have you watched anything on ABC11 lately? I think they are jealous of NBC17's poor quality, and trying to do them one better (or is it worse..). For the last few weeks, they've been running their 11-1 HD channel at less than 8Mb/s, and any fast motion results in a massive blob of pixelization. If anything, I expect that scrubs will look *worse* on ABC, since all ABC shows look like garbage thanks to ABC11. If they don't fix this for college football season, I may have to put up an bigger antenna to try to get WXLV reliably.

Drew

Actually yes, if you go back a few posts you'll see that I posted about ABC11's sudden decrease in picture quality. I just hope that it's only temporary. I think I'll send a letter to ABC headquarters telling them about it, because I sent an email to ABC11's engineering department and it went ignored. Maybe we should all send letters to ABC's headquarters.

Regardless of that, even at the 4 Mbit/s that ABC11 is broadcasting now, still it looks better than NBC17. At least it doesn't have the motion blur that NBC17 does.

Someone try calling and talking to an engineer. I often find that phone calls are much more effective than e-mails at getting a problem resolved.

- Trip

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

I got that call yesterday... but im still on Passport as of now.

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:
I got the automated call 30 minutes ago. :eek: Said within 24 hours.

I got the automated call 30 minutes ago. :eek: Said within 24 hours.

I had a feeling many others got the call as well. I have an HD box. Maybe those won't be updated, just non-HD. I'm most worried about my external HD and all the saved stuff I haven't had time to watch yet.

I had a feeling many others got the call as well. I have an HD box. Maybe those won't be updated, just non-HD. I'm most worried about my external HD and all the saved stuff I haven't had time to watch yet.
We have two 8300HD DVR's. No non-HD boxes.

People in Carrboro are often the forgotten neighbors of Chapel Hill. Here's hoping it stays that way because I haven't received any notification.

...Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update

Actually, I was wondering if the update could be avoided if you unplug for a couple of days. I suppose it would update as soon as you reconnected though.

I got that call yesterday... but im still on Passport as of now.

I got the call last night and have been updated as of this morning. Everything looks in order. Remember to delete any recordings so there is room to push the update onto the hard drive. So far, no issues. :)

I got the update to Navigator last night too. Don't seem too bad. Didn't loose any recorded shows or scheduled recordings (drive was only 1/3rd full). Just had to reset the Power On/Off settings like I had before. Although, now I can't jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments anymore. Can't get in the System Diagnostic screen using 999 anymore.

I got the update to Navigator last night too. Don't seem too bad. Didn't loose any recorded shows or scheduled recordings (drive was only 1/3rd full). Just had to reset the Power On/Off settings like I had before. Although, now I can't jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments anymore. Can't get in the System Diagnostic screen using 999 anymore.

Evidently there is no equivlant to 999 in navigator. Check out the navigator forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830 to find out the different ways you can get into the diagnostics.

No call here in Morrisville, nor an update (I assume Navigator looks completely different and I will know it when I get it?)

No call here in Morrisville, nor an update (I assume Navigator looks completely different and I will know it when I get it?)

Yes and yes. :)

For those getting Navigator and curious about the Audio Range options of Narrow, Normal and Wide here's a bit of info.

Narrow compresses the dynamic range by making quieter noises louder in the same manner that NTSC dynamic range compressors operate. This dynamic range compression is needed in NTSC because the NTSC audio encoder would throw away quiet sounds. ATSC did not need this compression due to superior audio encoding, but some studios do it anyways. HDNet is one channel that does not perform this compression.

Normal passes the signal through as much as possible without processing besides digital to analog conversion and volume control if you are using RCA audio.

Wide performs an inverse distortion as what Narrow does, and is considered a deprecated feature left in to allow older versions of SARA to still run correctly. It makes loud sounds louder and quiet sounds quieter.

I just found and read the article on Digital LOUDNESS matching (http://broadcastengineering.com/audio/broadcasting_digital_loudness_matching/index.html) too explaining it. In basic terms just leave it at it's default setting of Narrow. I tried all three options with analog and digital outputs. Neither affect the digital audio output sound, they only seem to affect the analog audio output sound. :)

I just hope that if they're pushing this crap onto everybody, that I can still transfer unencrypted broadcasts through my computer using firewire or somebody at Time Warner will have to put up with my bitching. And if I can't transfer them anymore I will probably switch to Directv because the only reason I'm sticking with Time Warner is to be able to save some episodes of shows I like.

I got an SA8300HD in May 2007, but my wife got a SA8300HDC with Navigator recently and it's a piece of crap. She keeps having to reset it because some shows don't get recorded, even with plenty of disk space. If I have to put up with that crap, I'm getting Directv.

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

Make sure you keep your external HD drive connected to your DVR and powered on -- everything should transfer.

Anybody having issues with "static" on the HD channels on TWC? I've had this off-and-on on several of the channels for the last few days, it shows up both live and in recordings. The "static" bit may be the TV, but what happens is I'll be watching the show or recording, and all of a sudden I get a screen full of just randomly colored pixels for a second or two, then it goes black briefly, then the show comes back.

Not sure yet if it's a broadcast problem with TWC, a cable problem on my end, or another manifestation of HDMI issues with the latest Navigator software and the 8300HDC.

No one has contacted us of any issue like this, and I'm sure TWC would have called if they were getting complaints like this. I just checked "The Office" on my TWC DVR / Samsung HD set and it looks great. TWC does use different QAM cards for different neighborhoods, so if we can isolate it to an area, I'm sure they can help fix it.

As for Scrubs, the producers refuse to shoot it in HD. They use an abandoned hospital, and since most scenes are shot in hallways, they said it looked awful in HD and better in 4:3. They did one episode in HD. Most people doubt it will ever be in HD on ABC as well, but there's several discussions about that on the web.

Our equipment is only a couple years old, same as everyone else uses, and HD is running at 14.5 Mbs. We feed TWC directly with fiber. What your service provider is delivering to your house may be very different, as well as additional equipment you may have installed. Compare signals with a good antenna, so you can have a baseline to go by.

Our equipment is only a couple years old, same as everyone else uses, and HD is running at 14.5 Mbs. We feed TWC directly with fiber. What your service provider is delivering to your house may be very different, as well as additional equipment you may have installed. Compare signals with a good antenna, so you can have a baseline to go by.

I get NBC17 OTA, and I see the same motion issues with The Office (and sports) on NBC 17 as the original poster mentioned. I never see this motion blur on CBS. The motion blur is different than pixelization due to low bandwidth (See anything with fast motion on WUNC-HD to see an example of that sort of issue). It is almost like the picture has somehow been softened, or otherwise molested while being re-encoded. Who knows, it could be a "feature" of the production, but since I would see it on sports I kind of doubt it.

For what its worth, I'm using a CM4228 into a DViCO Fusion HDTV tuner in a PC running SageTV, and an HDMI connection from the Sage STX-HD100 media extender to my Sony 1080P LCD. I see the same motion blur on NBC17 OTA (via SageTV) and via QAM using the Sony's tuner. I don't see motion blur on any other station. I have Sage setup to pass the native signal to the TV. I'll try setting the extender to 1080P and see if it can deal with the signal better than the Sony's deinterlacer.

While we've got your attention, what is the yellow line along the left hand side of the screen during most primetime shows on NBC17? I'd love to be able to just keep my TV in full-pixel mode, but that darned line is distracting. I'm really curious what it is.. I've seen VBI data at the top of the picture on other stations, but only for syndicated shows (ABC11, Fox50) or for 480i shows (WUNC). I assume the yellow line must be something else..

Thanks for looking into this!

Drew

While we've got your attention, what is the yellow line along the left hand side of the screen during most primetime shows on NBC17? I'd love to be able to just keep my TV in full-pixel mode, but that darned line is distracting. I'm really curious what it is.. I've seen VBI data at the top of the picture on other stations, but only for syndicated shows (ABC11, Fox50) or for 480i shows (WUNC). I assume the yellow line must be something else..

Thanks for looking into this!

Drew

I am also curious about the yellow line on the left hand side of NBC17's HD broadcasts. This occurs w/ D*TV & OTA and only with NBC-HD on a 58" Panasonic plasma TV. I do not see this yellow line with a 50" Samsung DLP or a Visio 20" HD-LCD. What little that I can find on the Internet refers to a over scanning problem w/ the NBC-HD national broadcast. My brother in Newport News, VA also gets this yellow line on NBC-HD (WAVY-10) on a 42" Visio HD-LCD.

NBC17ENG -- any word on why this happens & a solution b/c I do not watch your channel too much b/c I am afraid of screen burn-in.

Thanks
Ernie

I got the update to Navigator last night too. Don't seem too bad. Didn't loose any recorded shows or scheduled recordings (drive was only 1/3rd full). Just had to reset the Power On/Off settings like I had before. Although, now I can't jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments anymore. Can't get in the System Diagnostic screen using 999 anymore.

Yeah, those are my only complaints so far: can't skip 15 minutes, and no channel 999.

Hey, anyone know what TWCs reason for switching to navigator are? There must be some benefit to them.

Sooke

... NBC-HD national broadcast...


I hadn't realized it was a national issue. For some reason, I'd thought it was local. This is good information.

As to how to get rid of it.. Look for a setting on your TV to turn on some overscan. On my Sony, it is in the "screen" menu, and the choices are "full pixel", "normal", +1 and +2.
Any setting other than "full pixel" gets rid of the line (and makes the picture zoom in, with some minor loss of clarity). Other manufacturers may call it things like "dot by dot". FWIW, I hate adding overscan because, well, I paid for 1080p (1920x1080), and don't want to have it scaled when there's no good reason.

Drew

Hmm.. I wonder if the line could be removed with translogo (http://www.cryogenic.net/translogo/translogo.html)..

I hadn't realized it was a national issue...


Drew

My Panasonic allows me to set my HD size to 95% which takes care of the yellow bar problem. I agree with you that I'd rather have my TV set at 100% and it is frustrating that this is only a NBC problem and not with any of my other 90+ HD channels that I get with D*TV. I hope maybe NBC17ENG can see if a solution can be made on NBC's side.

Ernie

Yeah, those are my only complaints so far: can't skip 15 minutes, and no channel 999.

Hey, anyone know what TWCs reason for switching to navigator are? There must be some benefit to them.

Sooke
I discovered if you hold the FF or REW button for a few seconds it will skip back or forward 15 minute increments.

As for the switch, Passport isn't compatible with SDV (switch digital video) so they had to change box software to use SDV.

I was able to get to the diagnostics menu via holding down select until the envelope icon comes on the box, then pressing the down arrow key.

I got the upgrade on 1 of my DVRs and did not get called. The things that it's missing are:

1) When fast forwarding and rewinding, it no longer displays the time (yes I know there is a time on the left hand side, but not being over the fast forward bar, it makes it difficult to know the time).

2) When fast forwarding and rewinding, you can no longer use the left and right arrow to move to the next 15 minute interval marker. We used this all the time to really get through shows, now we have to wait for fast forward to work. (this appears to be solved by holding down FF or RW a few seconds and it'll jump 15 minutes).

3) When in Guide mode and clicking favorites, the channel actually changes and the guide goes away instead of the guide jumping to the next favorite channel and staying in guide mode.

4) Day +/- buttons do not seem to work; only get the "loading data" message.

5) Menus are very slow.

The only positive thing is that the side bars on non-HD channels are black now.

I called TW and complained that old features are missing. She seemed to care and wrote them down, but said they had had lots of complaints. She said I could have them bring me out a box that has Passport on it and it would stay Passport (and not get upgraded). I'm not really sure she knew what she was talking about, but I scheduled someone to bring me a new box. I'm not sure if its worth re-scheduling everything on the DVR just to get software that will likely just get upgraded (even though she said it wouldn't).

Anyone know?

Hey, anyone know what TWCs reason for switching to navigator are? There must be some benefit to them.

Anyone know?


Navigator historical and technical discussions are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

...
3) When in Guide mode and clicking favorites, the channel actually changes and the guide goes away instead of the guide jumping to the next favorite channel and staying in guide mode.

...

The only positive thing is that the side bars on non-HD channels are black now.

...



YES! 3) is so annoying. I forgot about that!

But black side bars are a welcome improvement.

Sooke

No one has contacted us of any issue like this, and I'm sure TWC would have called if they were getting complaints like this. I just checked "The Office" on my TWC DVR / Samsung HD set and it looks great. TWC does use different QAM cards for different neighborhoods, so if we can isolate it to an area, I'm sure they can help fix it.

As for Scrubs, the producers refuse to shoot it in HD. They use an abandoned hospital, and since most scenes are shot in hallways, they said it looked awful in HD and better in 4:3. They did one episode in HD. Most people doubt it will ever be in HD on ABC as well, but there's several discussions about that on the web.

Our equipment is only a couple years old, same as everyone else uses, and HD is running at 14.5 Mbs. We feed TWC directly with fiber. What your service provider is delivering to your house may be very different, as well as additional equipment you may have installed. Compare signals with a good antenna, so you can have a baseline to go by.


nbc17eng,

to illustrate the blurry issue, i took some digital photos with my camera. i am using a DirecTV HR10-250 (HD Tivo) recording OTA. I see the same problem irregardless of which tuners I use (6 total). I've tried 2 different Sony TV's tuning NBC17 OTA, both sony TV's QAM tuners via TWC, my DirecTV HR10-250 OTA, and DirecTV HR20 OTA. these pictures are from last weeks L&O:SVU with the DVR paused.

pic1 shows the warden as she starts to walk off camera to the right. you can clearly see 3 "ghost" images of her.

pic2 shows her as she is almost off screen. again, you can easily make out 2 ghost images. there is a faint 3rd, but the camera didn't pick it up so well, so its hard to see.

pic3 shows eliott walking down the hall. you can clearly see a ghost image of doctor walking in the background. and there is a ghost image of eliott's head and hand.

the pics are paused digital images recorded from NBC 17's OTA signal. there should not be a ghost image. the paused image is a single frame of the digital stream. i see the same problem using QAM via TWC. the ghost images make it appear that the image is blurry when things are moving on the screen. the HD encode equipment you are using may be new, and the same as every other station in the area, but it HAS to be setup differently. I do NOT see anything like this on the other stations I watch (WRAL, WRAZ, WTVD). and I don't think its my setup. I have used 6 different tuners, tried OTA and QAM, same problem. and i know other people are complaining. so i find it hard to believe that all the complainer's have a bad setup. i think you don't get the complaints because unfortunately, NBC17 has a poor quality HD wrap. people notice it, mention it to a friend who has an HD setup, and the friend says yeah, NBC17 doesn't have good HD, and its always been that way. and they just accept it as fact. i know i'm in that boat, and i know lots of my friends are in that boat.

As for the switch, Passport isn't compatible with SDV (switch digital video) so they had to change box software to use SDV.

More precisely, TWC decided not to pay for the upgrade to the SDV compatible version of Passport. They decided to write their own instead.

so i find it hard to believe that all the complainer's have a bad setup. i think you don't get the complaints because unfortunately, NBC17 has a poor quality HD wrap. people notice it, mention it to a friend who has an HD setup, and the friend says yeah, NBC17 doesn't have good HD, and its always been that way. and they just accept it as fact. i know i'm in that boat, and i know lots of my friends are in that boat.

I've just noticed the same thing on L&O right now. The effect is not as pronounced on my set but I can see a noisy ghost image. I only watch Earl on NBC at the moment so I've never seen it. My TWC recorded Earl looks fine to me.

It's never always been that way. It was fine when Heroes, Chuck, FNL etc. were on.

i don't watch a lot of stuff on NBC17 ... mostly L&O, L&O:SVU, 30 Rock, and SNL. i don't notice the "blur" problem on SNL, but i definitely do on the other shows.

Anyone got a list of all the HD channels I can see via my QAM tuner without getting a cable box?

For some reason, TWC never answered my email inquiry. ;-)

I have a Sony KD-30XS955 30" 16:9 High Definition Television with a built-in tuner that picks up your HD channels without any cable box. Do you publish a list of all the HD channels that are on cable?

Thanks,
Gary

http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=27bd7007-17a3-4b43-9b80-011d425995ec

schweeeeeet :)

No one has contacted us of any issue like this, and I'm sure TWC would have called if they were getting complaints like this. I just checked "The Office" on my TWC DVR / Samsung HD set and it looks great. TWC does use different QAM cards for different neighborhoods, so if we can isolate it to an area, I'm sure they can help fix it.
I definitely notice this issue on NBC17 and not any other channel. I was paranoid that I was sensitive to an LCD motion blur problem, but now that i've tried pausing it as another poster did here, it's very clear that it's encoded in the stream.

As for Scrubs, the producers refuse to shoot it in HD. They use an abandoned hospital, and since most scenes are shot in hallways, they said it looked awful in HD and better in 4:3. They did one episode in HD. Most people doubt it will ever be in HD on ABC as well, but there's several discussions about that on the web. Interesting info...i'd love to see some links to more info on this as well.

Our equipment is only a couple years old, same as everyone else uses, and HD is running at 14.5 Mbs. We feed TWC directly with fiber. What your service provider is delivering to your house may be very different, as well as additional equipment you may have installed. Compare signals with a good antenna, so you can have a baseline to go by.

It really doesn't seem to be a low bitrate issue. I suspect it's a setting on the encoder somewhere.

PS - that yellow line issue when you go with 0 overscan is really annoying. If I remember right, there may be a small area of no image at the top of the screen on NBC as well. I've noticed this on ESPN also. These issues make me not go with 0 overscan and 1:1 pixel mapping when watching TV, which is fundamentally annoying since 1:1 pixel mapping and no scaling is one of the reasons to get 1080p IMO.

Anyone got a list of all the HD channels I can see via my QAM tuner without getting a cable box?

For some reason, TWC never answered my email inquiry. ;-)

I have a Sony KD-30XS955 30" 16:9 High Definition Television with a built-in tuner that picks up your HD channels without any cable box. Do you publish a list of all the HD channels that are on cable?

Thanks,
Gary

search this thread for clear QAM.

Last time I checked it was locals only.

how can i get the passport update? call twc?

the pics are paused digital images recorded from NBC 17's OTA signal. there should not be a ghost image. the paused image is a single frame of the digital stream.

If anybody still has last week's Office, there is a great (or should I say terrible?) example of this ghosting around 11:03 into the show.

FWIW, shows like L&O, The Office, etc, are filmed on 24fps film, and are telecined into a 30fps 1080i30 digital stream. The ghosting may indicate a problem with the telecine process nationally with NBC, or it might indicate a problem with NBC17's local encoder, or it might be indicate a problem with our receivers' inverse telecine hardware. Or it could be a total red herring. Since we are seeing the issue with a wide range of receiving equipment, I think we can rule out our TVs, DVRs, etc.

I may try to record something from WITN this week and see if it is any better. If it is, that would strongly indicate an NBC17 problem. However, I only have an attic antenna, and WITN is almost 85 miles from me, so if anybody else here can get WITN reliably and can check it, that would be great.

Drew

I'll try setting the extender to 1080P and see if it can deal with the signal better than the Sony's deinterlacer.

The motion blurr was still there, both when using the extender's deinterlacer, and when using the Sony TVs..

Drew

I've seen the blur on 17.1 as well. Especially in the facial area. It looks like it tends to soften at times.

Looks like ABC 11 launched in HD today...

Looks like ABC 11 launched in HD today...


Launched what? News?

You mean they're catching up with Capital Broadcasting ?

Really? My receiver was tuned to ABC this AM by virtue of recording Brothers and Sistems last night and I thought I saw bars on each side. Maybe only certain shots are in HD now.

nbc17eng,

to illustrate the blurry issue, i took some digital photos with my camera. i am using a DirecTV HR10-250 (HD Tivo) recording OTA. I see the same problem irregardless of which tuners I use (6 total). I've tried 2 different Sony TV's tuning NBC17 OTA, both sony TV's QAM tuners via TWC, my DirecTV HR10-250 OTA, and DirecTV HR20 OTA. these pictures are from last weeks L&O:SVU with the DVR paused.

pic1 shows the warden as she starts to walk off camera to the right. you can clearly see 3 "ghost" images of her.

pic2 shows her as she is almost off screen. again, you can easily make out 2 ghost images. there is a faint 3rd, but the camera didn't pick it up so well, so its hard to see.

pic3 shows eliott walking down the hall. you can clearly see a ghost image of doctor walking in the background. and there is a ghost image of eliott's head and hand.

the pics are paused digital images recorded from NBC 17's OTA signal. there should not be a ghost image. the paused image is a single frame of the digital stream. i see the same problem using QAM via TWC. the ghost images make it appear that the image is blurry when things are moving on the screen. the HD encode equipment you are using may be new, and the same as every other station in the area, but it HAS to be setup differently. I do NOT see anything like this on the other stations I watch (WRAL, WRAZ, WTVD). and I don't think its my setup. I have used 6 different tuners, tried OTA and QAM, same problem. and i know other people are complaining. so i find it hard to believe that all the complainer's have a bad setup. i think you don't get the complaints because unfortunately, NBC17 has a poor quality HD wrap. people notice it, mention it to a friend who has an HD setup, and the friend says yeah, NBC17 doesn't have good HD, and its always been that way. and they just accept it as fact. i know i'm in that boat, and i know lots of my friends are in that boat.

Thanks for the pictures. They were worth a thousand words. I reviewed my DVR copy of Law and Order, and was able to match your results. It was definately a pre-processing error in the noise reduction circuit. Shows like Earl, News, etc are shot on HD cameras on tape, servers, etc. L&O looks like it was shot on film, which produces grain that the encoder thinks is noise.

I just backed down the noise reduction. Let me know it that takes care of it.

As for Scrubs, I think it was on this forum under the programming thread about shooting in 4:3 versus going HD.

I just backed down the noise reduction. Let me know it that takes care of it.


Probably a dumb question, but shouldn't all network programming be "perfect", and exempt from noise reduction anyway?

Drew

Launched what? News?

Yes, ABC 11 launched news in HD at least at Noon today. Studio redesign and everything. Sorry I don't have caps available.

Yes, ABC 11 launched news in HD at least at Noon today. Studio redesign and everything. Sorry I don't have caps available.

An interesting question comes to mind... Will the channel 22 10pm news now also be in HD?

I'll have to check out WTVD tonight for the news to see how things look.

Probably a dumb question, but shouldn't all network programming be "perfect", and exempt from noise reduction anyway?

"Probably" is a loaded word, but probably you are correct :)

Thing is, with all the processing/compression going on to get the HD signals available for broadcast undoubtedly some noise does creep in there. In an ideal situation I would think noise reduction should be kept to a minimum though just for the problem perhaps uncovered here, that being the inability for a computer to decide between noise and intended grain.

No comment on perfect network video.
Another question about the yellow bar; is it all the time or just during HD shows? My understanding was it was all the time from previous posts, and it makes a big difference where to look. Remember I am looking something I can not see as my monitors don't show it.

Thanks for the pictures. They were worth a thousand words. I reviewed my DVR copy of Law and Order, and was able to match your results. It was definately a pre-processing error in the noise reduction circuit. Shows like Earl, News, etc are shot on HD cameras on tape, servers, etc. L&O looks like it was shot on film, which produces grain that the encoder thinks is noise.

I just backed down the noise reduction. Let me know it that takes care of it.

As for Scrubs, I think it was on this forum under the programming thread about shooting in 4:3 versus going HD.

awesome. i am looking forward to checking out L&O:SVU tomorrow night to see if it does. i will let you know. and thanks for looking into it.

No comment on perfect network video.

Like I said, a dumb question :)


Another question about the yellow bar; is it all the time or just during HD shows? My understanding was it was all the time from previous posts, and it makes a big difference where to look. Remember I am looking something I can not see as my monitors don't show it.

I just checked the "Judge Judy" which is on right now (4:30pm), and it seems fine. It has no yellow line. I seldom watch SD on NBC, so I hadn't checked before.

Thanks for looking into this!

Drew

An interesting question comes to mind... Will the channel 22 10pm news now also be in HD?

I'll have to check out WTVD tonight for the news to see how things look.

Short answer to the CW22 seems to be no. They are SD at 10.

Short answer to the CW22 seems to be no. They are SD at 10.

Saw that as well... could be that they don't have a way right now to get the HD feed over to CW22. Could also be due to CW22 being 1080i while WTVD11 is 720p.

I did catch the 11pm news, and it was nice to see the new studio. I'll have to try and catch more news now on WTVD. I had pretty much become glued to WRAL once I went HD.

Another question about the yellow bar; is it all the time or just during HD shows? My understanding was it was all the time from previous posts, and it makes a big difference where to look. Remember I am looking something I can not see as my monitors don't show it.

Here is more information about the bar...

As I said, it was not present during "Judge Judy" at 4:30pm or so.

Last night it was not present in "Deal or No Deal" (I tuned in at 9:55pm), and it appeared exactly at 10pm just as "Medium" started.

This morning, it was present for Today. It seemed to go away at 7:25 for the local news segment, but returned at 7:30.

I'm going to try to attach 2 screen shots. Line_full is a full screen capture of NBC17, at exactly 7:30, just as Today came back on. Note that the VLC player seems to exaggerate the width of the sidebars ... this was 16:9 HD w/o sidebars, but I think VLC is trying to display 16:10 and adds bars for 16:9. So the line is more like 10 pixels into the screen than the 100 or so it appears to be. Line_cropped is a zoomed in capture of NBC17 at 7:30 after the program started.

Drat.. the forums seem to scale attachments. If you can't see the line, or want the higher quality jpgs, please PM me, and I can email them to you.

Drew

I definitely see the yellow line on NBC HD broadcasts. I have a Panasonic plasma with a zero overscan setting. I just figured it was a consequence of running the set that way. I will try to make more notes about what I am seeing. The only issue I can see is that aside from Scrubs, everything I watch from NBC is in HD.

Navigator is up and running in Morrisville...rebooted itself within 30 minutes of me starting my DVR, and then told me the box was not authorized for service. Im moving to where I can install a dish in the next month, and its looking very much like Ill be calling Dish soon to schedule an installation.

Navigator is up and running in Morrisville...rebooted itself within 30 minutes of me starting my DVR, and then told me the box was not authorized for service. Im moving to where I can install a dish in the next month, and its looking very much like Ill be calling Dish soon to schedule an installation.

Which DVR model do you have?

Jim

Navigator is up and running in Morrisville...rebooted itself within 30 minutes of me starting my DVR, and then told me the box was not authorized for service. Im moving to where I can install a dish in the next month, and its looking very much like Ill be calling Dish soon to schedule an installation.

you still have the SA 8000 HD DVR - right?

I got Navigatored today, and noticed in the program guide that channel 774 is listed as SWHDNET and 775 is listed as SWHDMO. Nothing there yet but a sign of Switched Digital maybe soon?

I got Navigatored today, and noticed in the program guide that channel 774 is listed as SWHDNET and 775 is listed as SWHDMO. Nothing there yet but a sign of Switched Digital maybe soon?
I spotted those also today while doing a title search for Rio Bravo. Wonder what the SW part stands for, Switch maybe?

There's also a 770, NBASWD1, 771 NBASWD2, 772 NHLSWD1 and 773 NHLSWD2.

No comment on perfect network video.
Another question about the yellow bar; is it all the time or just during HD shows? My understanding was it was all the time from previous posts, and it makes a big difference where to look. Remember I am looking something I can not see as my monitors don't show it.
I get a yellow bar on HD shows all the time. I do not see it on SD shows. As I said in an earlier post, I only see this on my plasma and not my LCD or DLP HDTVs. I also see this on NBC HD shows on my Brother's LCD HD in Newport News, VA (WAVY-10).
You are welcome to stop by to see for yourself (I am off of Capital blvd (US1 N) at the 401 split) 872-7932

Ernie

Thanks for the pictures. They were worth a thousand words. I reviewed my DVR copy of Law and Order, and was able to match your results. It was definately a pre-processing error in the noise reduction circuit. Shows like Earl, News, etc are shot on HD cameras on tape, servers, etc. L&O looks like it was shot on film, which produces grain that the encoder thinks is noise.

I just backed down the noise reduction. Let me know it that takes care of it.


nbc17eng,

i watched L&O:SVU last night and things looked MUCH better. i did not notice the "blur" effect at all during the broadcast. i have no real complaints with the PQ. the picture was a little bit "soft", but that probably comes from the fact it was shot on film. looks like backing down on the noise reduction was the right fix!

The yellow bar shows up if you have your TV set for zero overscan ("full pixel" on Sonys), which is intended for using your TV as a computer moniter. This crap on the top and or sides is outside the overscan safety zone that broadcasters are concerned with. Set your TV scan to "normal" rather than "full pixel". These adjustments are somewhere in your settings menu.

This yellow line is part of the NBC transmission, not anything being done at WNCN.

The yellow bar shows up if you have your TV set for zero overscan ("full pixel" on Sonys), which is intended for using your TV as a computer moniter. This crap on the top and or sides is outside the overscan safety zone that broadcasters are concerned with. Set your TV scan to "normal" rather than "full pixel". These adjustments are somewhere in your settings menu.

This yellow line is part of the NBC transmission, not anything being done at WNCN.

Ha! You do know this is AVSforum, right? We all want 1:1 pixel mapping. Overscan should not be needed, not in the HD age. The day of tubes that are half hidden around the edges are gone. Requiring overscan is merely a relic of the tube days. You are losing resolution, losing content, and losing 1:1 mapping.

Ha! You do know this is AVSforum, right? We all want 1:1 pixel mapping. Overscan should not be needed, not in the HD age. The day of tubes that are half hidden around the edges are gone. Requiring overscan is merely a relic of the tube days. You are losing resolution, losing content, and losing 1:1 mapping.

Indeed. And, interestingly, HD content on all other broadcast network (even CW) looks fine with a 1:1 mapping. It is only NBC that can't handle a 1:1 mapping correctly.

Drew

Indeed. And, interestingly, HUD content on all other broadcast network (even CW) looks fine with a 1:1 mapping. It is only NBC that can't handle a 1:1 mapping correctly.

Drew

Response from my buddy at NBC:

There are no adjustments in the TDR-6 for this. We reported the issue to Tiernan and they are working on it.

Tom

Turns out there's also a cyan colored line on the right side of the picture, so if you don't see it, then you're over scanned on the right side and not 1:1. It could be alignment marks the manufacturer put in, but apparently not a wanted feature.

In any event, the IRD is being replaced in a few months as NBC moves to C-Band satellite delivery from KU, so it will go away soon.

Response from my buddy at NBC:

There are no adjustments in the TDR-6 for this. We reported the issue to Tiernan and they are working on it.


Thank you so much for looking into this!

For what its worth, I've never seen the cyan line on the right hand side, either on my TV at 1:1, or when displaying a recording on a PC in a window. Perhaps it just blends into the background for me or something.

Drew

I imagine the Cyan line shows up less than the yellow. I will look to see next time I watch something on NBC.

...
In any event, the IRD is being replaced in a few months as NBC moves to C-Band satellite delivery from KU, so it will go away soon.

I agree w/ Drew. Thanks a lot for looking into this problem.

Ernie

I have just started getting digital on my analog TV with a converter box. I have a roof mount Gemini 360 with rotor, which is the recommended antenna for my area, and Channel Master Spartan 3 powered signal booster. I also upgraded the coax to RG6 Quad Shield. I usually get good digital reception with this setup. But for some reason NBC Channel 17 is giving me problems. On the old analog signal 17 was always just a little more fuzzy and had more reception problems than the other stations but now with digital the problem is more acute. I get most stations with one antenna direction but 17 requires a small adjustment to the rotor. My converter box came with a signal meter that shows 17 with less signal strength than the other stations. Weather also seems to affect reception as well more than the other stations. One night we receive ok, the next night we just can't get a strong enough signal to make it worth watching or the signal fades in and out. Yet if we switch back to analog the signal and reception is much better than the digital, when the digital is not working. Is it that 17 is just not putting out the watts necessary? I live west of Chapel Hill along hwy 54 about half way to Graham. Anyone else having these problems?

I have just started getting digital..the old analog signal 17 was always just a little more fuzzy and had more reception problems than the other stations but now with digital the problem is more acute..

Could it be because NBC17 is broadcasting with less digital power than most of the other digitals? According to tvfool.com, WNCN is broadcasting at 525kW, which is less than the roughly 900kW of fox, cbs, pbs, etc. But they also say WTVD is currently broadcasting digital on physical VHF 11 at 17.9kW. I figure that cannot be correct, so who knows if the rest is trustworthy.

Drew

The power for WNCN-DT is correct. WTVD-DT is doing 1000 kW on channel 52 along with the rest.

- Trip

Actually yes, if you go back a few posts you'll see that I posted about ABC11's sudden decrease in picture quality. I just hope that it's only temporary. I think I'll send a letter to ABC headquarters telling them about it, because I sent an email to ABC11's engineering department and it went ignored. Maybe we should all send letters to ABC's headquarters.

Regardless of that, even at the 4 Mbit/s that ABC11 is broadcasting now, still it looks better than NBC17. At least it doesn't have the motion blur that NBC17 does.

I hate to see ABC11 going backwards though. An hour of HD (Ugly Betty...tell no one), took up under 3GB on my Tivo HD...way down from last season. I already called them a couple weeks ago; got switched to some engineer's voicemail. I left a nice message, and was never called back. Today I emailed their general manager. I will post if I hear anything.

If I start watching all the commercials on my Tivo recorded shows, will they be able to afford to put back the quality? :)

Wayne

I hate to see ABC11 going backwards though. An hour of HD (Ugly Betty...tell no one), took up under 3GB on my Tivo HD...way down from last season. I already called them a couple weeks ago; got switched to some engineer's voicemail. I left a nice message, and was never called back. Today I emailed their general manager. I will post if I hear anything.

If I start watching all the commercials on my Tivo recorded shows, will they be able to afford to put back the quality? :)

Wayne

I think it would be a good idea to start sending letters to ABC's headquarters, if the Raleigh offices are too uptight to listen to customer feedback, maybe contacting the main ABC offices will change that. It's outrageous that they lowered their quality so dramatically.

Could it be because NBC17 is broadcasting with less digital power than most of the other digitals? According to tvfool.com, WNCN is broadcasting at 525kW, which is less than the roughly 900kW of fox, cbs, pbs, etc. But they also say WTVD is currently broadcasting digital on physical VHF 11 at 17.9kW. I figure that cannot be correct, so who knows if the rest is trustworthy.According to the FCC site, NBC17 (WNCN) is broadcasting HD at 525kW. But they show WTVD broadcasting HD on channel 52 at 1000kW. 17.9kW on channel 11 DT is shown as a construction permit. Low power is usually allocated for construction and then modified up for start of normal broadcasting. It's my understanding WTVD won't move to channel 11 for DT until the nation goes digital next year.

http://preview.*******.com/57f3oq

I hate to see ABC11 going backwards though. An hour of HD (Ugly Betty...tell no one), took up under 3GB on my Tivo HD

I wonder if they are planning to sell some of the bandwidth to a third party (like a USDTV type pay service), and testing the waters to see how many complaints there are? I'm afraid the NASCAR race this afternoon will be a pixelization nightmare.

Drew

It doesn't look / sound too bad when I use my Samsung DTB-H260F in DD mode for audio. The audio from my TV itself (an Olevia T232) has a "hollow" sound to it. The Zenith DT900 sounds OK.

Could it be because NBC17 is broadcasting with less digital power than most of the other digitals? According to tvfool.com, WNCN is broadcasting at 525kW, which is less than the roughly 900kW of fox, cbs, pbs, etc. But they also say WTVD is currently broadcasting digital on physical VHF 11 at 17.9kW. I figure that cannot be correct, so who knows if the rest is trustworthy.

Drew

YES! I just found the TVFool site and found the signal strength comparisons. Prior to this I had emailed NBC17 and the stations engineer did not answer my question about signal strength. Are they just cheap or what. He gave me suggestions on improving reception that I had already done but stayed away from the real issue. I guess I'll just get a deeper reception antenna to compensate. Thanks for the reply.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WNCN

WNCN operates at 527 kW because that is what the FCC allowed them to use. The others are at 1 million watts. CBS,ABC,FOX, etc, but I think WRDC is less power also.

WNCN will operate much less than 527 kW at the analog cut off.

WRDC DT is down to 225 kW! (when they move to 28 for dt) They are up to 915 kW I think now.

WNCN operates at 527 kW because that is what the FCC allowed them to use. The others are at 1 million watts. CBS,ABC,FOX, etc, but I think WRDC is less power also.

WNCN will operate much less than 527 kW at the analog cut off.

WRDC DT is down to 225 kW! This is why I don't get them anymore... They were up to about 800 kW I think before.

WRDC-DT was at 915 kW and to the best of my knowledge, still is. They have a construction permit for 225 kW on channel 28, but they're not operating that one yet. Why the FCC has archived the channel 27 record, I have no idea. I've seen this happen all over the place. They have STAs which haven't been used in years (the 9.2 kW record) listed but active digital stations archived. Go figure.

As for WNCN-DT, I don't expect them to keep the lower power they have a permit for on channel 17. The FCC capped the power of stations that moved for any reason to just the power necessary to replicate their current digital. Since channel 55 requires so much more power than channel 17 does, the FCC decided that channel 17 needs only 244 kW DA to replicate their digital signal on channel 55. This cap goes away in August when the FCC lifts their freeze on station expansions. Many stations will likely seek to boost power at that time. I think WNCN's recently-filed application for just 27 kW (but non-directional) is the first step toward that.

I hope that helps...

- Trip

You caught me before my edit. LOL

I was wondering why they archieved the current 915 kW (WRDC) power license as well... I confused the new permit for that one.

I just backed down the noise reduction. Let me know it that takes care of it.


NBC17 looks a lot better since you took out that nasty temporal noise reduction. There's still a lot of pixelation in fast moving or complex scenes, but at least I don't have to put up with that awful trail effect anymore.

Trying to watch "Carrier" on WUNC-HD (4.2) off Time Warner and the audio is all messed up. Can't hear anyone talking, just the music. The SD (4.1) audio is okay...

NBC17 looks a lot better since you took out that nasty temporal noise reduction. There's still a lot of pixelation in fast moving or complex scenes, but at least I don't have to put up with that awful trail effect anymore.

Agreed. The Wife and I could actually watch the NBC shows from the DVR this week! I joked with my wife that my bitching finally paid off for a change! ;)

WTVD's HD news looks good. I had them coming in yesterday afternoon after it rained.

Trying to watch "Carrier" on WUNC-HD (4.2) off Time Warner and the audio is all messed up. Can't hear anyone talking, just the music. The SD (4.1) audio is okay...

It was broadcast that way. Screw up on UNC's end. I kept switching back and forth until the audio got corrected. Still amazing that it can go on that way for 20+ minutes before someone catches it.

-Matt

It was broadcast that way. Screw up on UNC's end. I kept switching back and forth until the audio got corrected. Still amazing that it can go on that way for 20+ minutes before someone catches it.

-Matt


Actually the problem was on the PBS end. People in multiple states were complaining about the same audio problem. Makes it more amazing that it was nationwide and it took 20+ minutes to be fixed.

Is is just my TV (Vizio VX32) or does 50-1 on TWC have A/V sync problems and freezing between 7-8pm during Two & a Half Men. At first I thought it was b/c I bought a Vizio but I rarely have problem's with other channels and 50-1 doesn't usually have problems at other times. Anyone else seeing this?

YES! I just found the TVFool site and found the signal strength comparisons. Prior to this I had emailed NBC17 and the stations engineer did not answer my question about signal strength. Are they just cheap or what. He gave me suggestions on improving reception that I had already done but stayed away from the real issue. I guess I'll just get a deeper reception antenna to compensate. Thanks for the reply.
Sorry if you think I was dodging your request, but if people in Greensboro can pick up my digital, I see no reason why you can't. I'm always the first to admit RF in the real world can be tricky, but DTV adds a whole new layer of tricks that no one can predict until next Feb. Power is not as important with digital. According to the FCC, the federal agency that has your best interest at heart, our DTV channel 55 out performs our analog ch 17 in theoretical coverage. You can view all this data on the FCC website if you can figure out how to navigate around it.

For history buffs, when I started with NBC 17, we were running 2.5 Megawatts, which is half power for a UHF station. We boosted that to 5 Meg when NBC bought us. The FCC, the government agency that has your best interests at heart, assigned DTV power outputs according to the NTSC power in 1997, or half power.

NBC didn't care about the smaller stations like us, and pillaged everything they could from us. Including failure to file to maximize our power after we went on the air with digital in 2000. That filing window closed.

They decided to sell, and we suddenly got lots of new equipment.

The transition filing NBC delivered to the FCC had us changing our antenna to notch out the southern portion of the market around Fayetteville to prevent interfering with a Florence, SC station. That meant we'd have to throw away our ch 55 and ch 17 antennas, and install this monstrosity. We'd be off the air for several weeks if we did. MG has filed so we can keep our ch 17 antenna, and broadcast equally on all 360 degrees, which means Daryl will still be able to pick us up next year.

So no, we're not cheap, we just do what the FCC, that government agency with blah, blah says we should.

Actually the problem was on the PBS end. People in multiple states were complaining about the same audio problem. Makes it more amazing that it was nationwide and it took 20+ minutes to be fixed.

I stand corrected. I agree that 20+ minutes for a national feed to be corrected is just amazing.

-Matt

NBC 17 ENG
Sorry if you think I was dodging your request, but if people in Greensboro can pick up my digital, I see no reason why you can't.
I pick up 17.1 in Jacksonville NC just as often as I pick up WRAL/ WTVD/ WRAZ. The weird thing is I pick up 28.1 first before those and when I cannot get any of the others, and they are at less power. Most times I get your station and the other main three this time of year after a rain shower has passed through, or at night/early morning.

Nothing weird about it. The lower a station is on the band, the easier it bends around terrain. WRDC-DT is on channel 27 while the rest are mostly in the 50's.

- Trip

Is is just my TV (Vizio VX32) or does 50-1 on TWC have A/V sync problems and freezing between 7-8pm during Two & a Half Men. At first I thought it was b/c I bought a Vizio but I rarely have problem's with other channels and 50-1 doesn't usually have problems at other times. Anyone else seeing this?

Heh. I've got a Vizio as well and have been noticing some weird stuttering on a variety of channels (just small hitches in the video). Recording of Two and a Half Men last week, ESPN another night, and FoodHD Sunday night. In the case of FoodHD, we were watching the show downstairs just fine, so I don't believe it's a general TWC issue. It's either my 8300HDC, the Navigator software, or the way the new Navigator is talking across HDMI. Not all shows are showing it, but they are all HD and a mix of recording and live.

I'm going to reboot the box and see if it comes back at all.

Heh. I've got a Vizio as well and have been noticing some weird stuttering on a variety of channels (just small hitches in the video). Recording of Two and a Half Men last week, ESPN another night, and FoodHD Sunday night. In the case of FoodHD, we were watching the show downstairs just fine, so I don't believe it's a general TWC issue. It's either my 8300HDC, the Navigator software, or the way the new Navigator is talking across HDMI. Not all shows are showing it, but they are all HD and a mix of recording and live.

I'm going to reboot the box and see if it comes back at all.


Hmm. I tried connecting my Vizio to the 8300HDC last night and it didn't have any problems with Fox HD. Without the STB though it always has trouble with 50-1 during that show. It's almost like the box does some type of buffering that smooths out the sync issues that the TV by itself can't handle. I'm wondering if anyone else has another brand TV that can confirm it works for them without the STB.

I haven't seen those problems with my 8300HDC (usually connected to a panasonic tube HD monitor) but rebooting usually helps when it's struggling.

For history buffs, when I started with NBC 17, we were running 2.5 Megawatts, which is half power for a UHF station. We boosted that to 5 Meg when NBC bought us. The FCC, the government agency that has your best interests at heart, assigned DTV power outputs according to the NTSC power in 1997, or half power.

NBC didn't care about the smaller stations like us, and pillaged everything they could from us. Including failure to file to maximize our power after we went on the air with digital in 2000. That filing window closed.

I always wondered how that stuff got decided. It sounds pretty nasty :(

Drew

MG has filed so we can keep our ch 17 antenna, and broadcast equally on all 360 degrees, which means Daryl will still be able to pick us up next year
Neat-O! That means I should have slightly better signal strength with ch.17 antenna over the ch.55 antenna. :D
Nothing weird about it. The lower a station is on the band, the easier it bends around terrain. WRDC-DT is on channel 27 while the rest are mostly in the 50's.

- Trip
Yep, down here 40 miles below Fayetteville I pick up WRDC-DT28.1 more frequently than the other Raleigh stations. WTVD-DT11.1 and WNCN-DT17.1 the least. BUT! my Channel Master Crossfire 3671B boom = length: 173" = 14.4', Width: 110" = 9.2' with a Channel Master Titan 7777 Amp stays pointed (small end) about 120 degrees ESE because it seems to grab digital channels better from the sides and I'm focusing more on the more local stations (Florence/Myrtle Beach market) which are closer while also letting me grab the Raleigh local on a good tropospheric day. My tough station choice is NBC. I'm verging on WNCN's fringe and WECT's using a directional antenna and is mostly non existant to me. The new NBC WMBF-DT32.1 coming this August for the Florence area has me on it's fringes as well which I believe will be notching out my direction of them also. Luckily I get WNCN 17.1 on TWC. ;)

The transition filing NBC delivered to the FCC had us changing our antenna to notch out the southern portion of the market around Fayetteville to prevent interfering with a Florence, SC station. That meant we'd have to throw away our ch 55 and ch 17 antennas, and install this monstrosity. We'd be off the air for several weeks if we did. MG has filed so we can keep our ch 17 antenna, and broadcast equally on all 360 degrees, which means Daryl will still be able to pick us up next year.

Do you expect your effective reception range to improve after February 2009? What will be the impact of changing the frequency of the digital transmission?

Even though I am in Cary only 17 miles from your tower, I have had trouble receiving WNCN on UHF channel 55. I have tried three large UHF antennas, including a rooftop 91XG antenna on a rotor, and an attic-mounted CM4228 with a preamp, but I get a weaker signal (usually 50-60% on the meter) from UHF channel 55 than from any of the other digital stations broadcasting from SE of Raleigh. I even get stronger signals from stations nearly 60 miles west of me than I do from 55. All the indoor antennas I've tried are completely unusable for WNCN in my home.

I was surprised that adding a preamp to the CM4228 helped my reception of WNCN on channel 55 (it was so weak as to be unwatchable without the preamp, despite having optimized the aim and using only 40 feet of brand new RG6 between the antenna and the TV). Multipath doesn't seem to be the problem, as the signal quality doesn't dance around much in normal weather, it just sits there at 50-60% depending on the time of day. I do have some trees behind my house in the direction of the tower, but these do not stop me from getting the other stations on the surrounding transmitters at 90% quality.

Right now I get a usable signal from WNCN in good weather, and I am enjoying watching Monk in HD without using cable or a satellite service. So I'm not complaining! I just hope my reception improves in the future.

Received the Navigator upgrade yesterday. I hate to say it but I mostly like the UI better than Passport. I did loose a couple of recordings, and a copy of series recordings. The audio and video settings were mostly wrong too.

I seem to be missing the ability to zoom...on Passport I could press the button in the lower left corner of the remote to switch between normal/stretch/zoom. This no longer works.

Getting into the diagnostics is a little harder too, but no biggie.

It is a bit slower than Passport, but not really noticeable if you force the unit to output just one resolution.

I know it is my imagination, but the picture seems to be a tad better.

Received the Navigator upgrade yesterday.

Getting into the diagnostics is a little harder too, but no biggie.


How exactly do you get into diagnostics?

How exactly do you get into diagnostics?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13682064#post13682064

I got the update and there is no slow motion feature I can find. It was press pause, then use the < > arrows.
Anyone know how to use slow motion with the new update???

My 8300HD appears to have gotten an update yesterday. However, its been flashing numbers in the display since yesterday. It wont respond to the power button or remote and the numbers just keep on incrementing and changing. hxxx with xxx incrementing by 20-50 at a time. Im thinking of pulling the plug.

My DVR was upgraded on Tuesday. Everything was fine (except for the usual known Passport problems).

Things that happened during the upgrade:

- some previously deleted programs came back, so I had to delete them again
- some recordings that had a start early 2 minutes came as start 2 minutes later

Today, the DVR already rebooted 3 times! I was just watching and it would reboot without explanation. Good thing is that nothing was recording at the time or I would be mad.

Anyone seen anything similar?

Francisco

My DVR was upgraded on Tuesday. Everything was fine (except for the usual known Passport problems).

Things that happened during the upgrade:

- some previously deleted programs came back, so I had to delete them again
- some recordings that had a start early 2 minutes came as start 2 minutes later

Today, the DVR already rebooted 3 times! I was just watching and it would reboot without explanation. Good thing is that nothing was recording at the time or I would be mad.

Anyone seen anything similar?

Francisco

My 8300HDC with Navigator would reboot frequently, I finally complained enough to get an 8300HD with Passport. Which model set top box do you have?

Jim

Looks like the Navigator update killed my 8300HD.... It just keeps looping thru numbers on the display. TW says I need a new box. Bummer.....

My 8300HDC with Navigator would reboot frequently, I finally complained enough to get an 8300HD with Passport. Which model set top box do you have?

Jim

My box is 8300HD, at least that's what's written in front of it. Today, it hung and I had to remove the power to restart it.

All the hangs and reboots have happened while watching an existing recording.

Francisco

I got the update and there is no slow motion feature I can find. It was press pause, then use the < > arrows.
Anyone know how to use slow motion with the new update???

All post-update questions should be asked in the Navigator thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

You'll find answers there.

This thread is only useful to let people know if they are (or have just been) upgraded. It just takes the thread off topic otherwise.

I got my "within the next week" email yesterday.

Looks like the Navigator update killed my 8300HD.... It just keeps looping thru numbers on the display. TW says I need a new box. Bummer.....

Mine used to do this everytime there was an update. If i hooked it up to a different cable outlet in the house, it would finish the update.

Mine used to do this everytime there was an update. If i hooked it up to a different cable outlet in the house, it would finish the update.

SugarBowl,

I read your post and thought to myself... yeah... right... I had a bit of time before TWC was supposed to arrive to have a look at the problem so I yanked it out of the stand and took it downstairs and hooked it up in the MBR. Guess what.... It WORKED. It took the update and all was fine. Thanks man!!!! The tech said he has see the same thing. He said that the signal has to be about perfect for updates. He checked my upstairs signal and said it was about perfect and he had no idea why it didnt work upstairs. The hxxx numbers in the display is the box looking for a host to download the update from.

So.... all well that ends well.

Thanks again!

My understanding is that UNCHD is not on DirecTV. Has DirecTV or UNC said anything about when this will be "fixed"?

My understanding is that UNCHD is not on DirecTV. Has DirecTV or UNC said anything about when this will be "fixed"?

UNCHD is not on DirecTV as of yet because PBS originally wanted all sub channels carried, meaning DirecTV would have to carry UNC-Kids, UNC-NC, etc.

In December, PBS came to an agreement with DirecTV to allow them to carry the HD feed of local PBS stations. In exchange, DirecTV will carry a couple of other national PBS channels (probably a PBS kids channel, etc) and allow PBS to submit programming for DirecTV-On-Demand.

At this point, we're either waiting for: 1)UNC to ratify that agreement; 2) DirecTV to install equipment to pick up UNC-HD for retransmission; 3) the newly launched DirecTV satellite to come online to allow more bandwidth for those local stations.

I would think it is soon (like before the end of the year), but have no firm idea.

-Matt

My understanding is that UNCHD is not on DirecTV. Has DirecTV or UNC said anything about when this will be "fixed"?

i read on dbstalk that PBS was targetting late spring or summer 08. there were still some things to iron out ... but its coming.

Now, the only question will be if UNC decides to give more accurate guide data than they do now, which results in me missing at least one episode of This Old House (usually the finale) every single freaking season due to botched recordings.

Now, the only question will be if UNC decides to give more accurate guide data than they do now, which results in me missing at least one episode of This Old House (usually the finale) every single freaking season due to botched recordings.
At least you get some kind of guide data. ;)

Down here below Fayetteville in Lumberton/Pembroke on TWC (from Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville) we use to get guide data on Cable channel 15 WB during weekday afternoon and weekend mornings only and on Passport you could at least create a manual recording to record something on that channel. Ever since it changed from WB to CW on cable ch.15 CW (CWPlus actually) there has been no guide data at all on that channel. And now with this darn new Navigator guide I can't even create a manual recording so I can't friggin record anything on that channel without recording a whole 4 hour block. Darn friggin incompetent TWC crap. :mad:

Vent over (for now)

Just got the dreaded phone call... Navigator cometh tonight. I for one am looking forward to Navigator as it seems to be the only way we are going to get more HD channels out of TW. So the sooner they get it rolled out, then hopefully the sooner they'll get SDV up and more channels out. Wishful thinking anyway...

Well, the other way is for them to drop analog, like they did in I think Staten Island, and make room for more HD that way.

Just got the dreaded phone call... Navigator cometh tonight. I for one am looking forward to Navigator as it seems to be the only way we are going to get more HD channels out of TW. So the sooner they get it rolled out, then hopefully the sooner they'll get SDV up and more channels out. Wishful thinking anyway...

definitely wishful thinking. Consider other recently Navigatored areas around the country and notice how little extra HD they have. Plus of course they can't go totally SDV in our area until all deployed Passport boxes are morphed, so that means every box even those that are not DVR.

SugarBowl,

I read your post and thought to myself... yeah... right... I had a bit of time before TWC was supposed to arrive to have a look at the problem so I yanked it out of the stand and took it downstairs and hooked it up in the MBR. Guess what.... It WORKED. It took the update and all was fine.

Thanks again!

Nice to know that it worked out. I had 2 boxes for awhile, and one of them would always update fine, and the other would get hung. So I would swap their locations and the broken box would always fix itself. I can't believe the phone operators haven't been updated with this information by now..

definitely wishful thinking. Consider other recently Navigatored areas around the country and notice how little extra HD they have. ...
Sadly extra capacity does little to loosen purse strings.
I really want Cable to catch up with SAT but not just channels how about a wide-screen guide for starters.
I got DISH when POSG was preaching SDV was coming years ago. I think I still have time to move to DirectTV for a contract or more before TWC will really be viable.

At least you get some kind of guide data. ;)

Down here below Fayetteville in Lumberton/Pembroke on TWC (from Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville) we use to get guide data on Cable channel 15 WB during weekday afternoon and weekend mornings only and on Passport you could at least create a manual recording to record something on that channel. Ever since it changed from WB to CW on cable ch.15 CW (CWPlus actually) there has been no guide data at all on that channel. And now with this darn new Navigator guide I can't even create a manual recording so I can't friggin record anything on that channel without recording a whole 4 hour block. Darn friggin incompetent TWC crap. :mad:

Vent over (for now)

Hmmm maybe it is the CW +'s fault because I can't get guide data on them either, and I pick up CW + on WNCT 9.2 out of Greenville. All it says in the guide is "The CW".:(

Sadly extra capacity does little to loosen purse strings.
I really want Cable to catch up with SAT but not just channels how about a wide-screen guide for starters.
I got DISH when POSG was preaching SDV was coming years ago. I think I still have time to move to DirectTV for a contract or more before TWC will really be viable.

Unfortunately, none of Scientific Atlanta/Cisco's boxes except the 85xx and 45xx series set top boxes are capable of drawing a widescreen guide because their internally-generated graphics engine maxes out at 640x480, a 4:3 resolution which is then scaled up to the TV's resolution. The 85xx and 45xx series boxes have beefed up graphics that can generate up to 960x540 internally, a 16:9 widescreen resolution, which is then scaled up to the screen's resolution. It was beefed up in these newer series of boxes to comply with OCAP requirements. There is nothing software can do about hardware limitations like this.

Hmmm maybe it is the CW +'s fault because I can't get guide data on them either, and I pick up CW + on WNCT 9.2 out of Greenville. All it says in the guide is "The CW".:(
I don't think it's CWPlus's fault. My local OTA CW network (WWMB CW21) carries CW programing during primetime and local stuff the rest of the time on their HD channel (21.1) and carries CWPlus on their sub SD channel (21.2) and they have guide data for CWPlus. Also if I turn to the TVGuide channel (cable channel 1) on TWC it also has CWPlus guide data. But unfortunately I can't set recordings from either of those. So this must be TWC's inability to set the channels info properly. :(

Well, my HD DVR downstairs got the update today, but the 3250 upstairs did not. After 15 minutes of using the new guide, it rebooted itself. Hooboy...

Well, my HD DVR downstairs got the update today, but the 3250 upstairs did not. After 15 minutes of using the new guide, it rebooted itself. Hooboy...

My 8300HD got the update last night and my 3250HD did not. So far Navigator isn't that bad although it has one annoying flaw (in addition to no manual recording) that I have found. If I set the clock options to "show channels always", it shows the channel in the display even when it is off. If I quickly turn the box on and off, it will show the time. I rebooted it but that did not fix the problem. I sent TWC an email about this and they responded with a link to the Navigator instructions. I suspect that the customer services person that emailed me back didn't even read the message but responded with a "canned answer". Well, I got the quality "no support" that I have come to expect :mad:

Well, my HD DVR downstairs got the update today, but the 3250 upstairs did not. After 15 minutes of using the new guide, it rebooted itself. Hooboy...

Same here, got home tonight and finally got to play with it, was poking around trying to find the caller id list and it rebooted.

I'll "give" them the first one as things could be weird after the upgrade. I also did a cold reboot just now.

If it continues I'm pressing my case the TWC and the Town of Cary.

I switched the receiver over to the 8300 with 'gator, hit guide, and it rebooted. This aint looking good.

I switched the receiver over to the 8300 with 'gator, hit guide, and it rebooted. This aint looking good.

Same here, so maybe it is expected for 1st use. We'll see :(

just received navigator. with passport i was able to go into the settings menu and delete any unwanted channels. navigator does not seem to have this feature. i tried going through favorite settings which does not work for me.

Same here, so maybe it is expected for 1st use. We'll see :(

It wasnt my first use.... Ive had it running 4 days when it decided to 'misbehave'.

My box updated yesterday. I guess I'm just easily satisfied but I actually like what I have seen of Navigator so far. I didn't lose any recordings or scheduled recordings. I like how when I look at my recorded program listings I can readily see how much space is being used rather than having to tune to channel 999 and scroll down to see available disc drive space. I did get one reboot right after the update but once I tweaked my settings it worked fine all evening for me. The biggest improvement for me by far is black sidebars on all SD channels now! HALLELUJAH!:D

just received navigator. with passport i was able to go into the settings menu and delete any unwanted channels. navigator does not seem to have this feature. i tried going through favorite settings which does not work for me.


I could do this on my 8300HD but not my 3250HD with Navigator.

I got both my 8300 HD boxes updated w/in the last couple days. Upon first use post-update, both rebooted w/in the first 2-3 min. of use. After that, they seemed to work alright. Used the second one for about 30-40 min. w/ no problems after the initial reboot.

Time will tell...

One thing I don't like with the passport software is the fact that when you're fast forwarding through something recorded it doesn't show you a time index. It shows you the start (0:00) and the end (1:00) but nothing in between, just a line where you are. Navigator would at least say you're at 33:45 or whatever..

One thing I don't like with the passport software is the fact that when you're fast forwarding through something recorded it doesn't show you a time index. It shows you the start (0:00) and the end (1:00) but nothing in between, just a line where you are. Navigator would at least say you're at 33:45 or whatever..

Are you sure that # isn't just a count-down til the next crash? :)

Hello:

OTA viewers, thanks to a fantastic bit of tropo ducting this morning, I was able to receive almost all of the Raleigh stations (excepting WRPX/WFPX and WUNP). Due to this, I've been able to post data about all of your stations on my website.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=35

I used data from WUNC to fill in WUNP, and data from WPXR in Roanoke to fill WRPX and WFPX.

Let me know if you see any mistakes, and I hope you find it useful!

- Trip

PS - I'm aware that UNC-DA is actually on 4-100 and 36-100, but due to a technical limitation of the site, I had to list them as 04-99 and 36-99.

FCC Sets Wilmington, N.C., as Digital-Switch Test Market, Sources Say

By Michele Greppi and Ira Teinowitz

Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin is set to announce Thursday that it will run a test of the switch to digital broadcasting signals in Wilmington, N.C., the smallest TV market in the Tarheel state, sources said.

The congressionally mandated national switch to digital takes place Feb. 19. The FCC didn't return multiple calls seeking comment.

The test in North Carolina, Mr. Martin's home state, is likely to take place before the November sweeps ratings period. If things do not go smoothly during the trial run, it could affect stations’ revenues during one of the months used to set advertising rates for the next fiscal quarter.

The Wilmington market, served by affiliates of all the major networks, is the 135th largest measured by Nielsen Media Research, which says 179,760 of the 182,500 homes in the area have televisions.

WWAY-TV, owned by Morris Multimedia, is the ABC affiliate in the area. NBC-affiliated WECT-TV and Fox-affiliated WSFX-TV are owned by Raycom Media. WILM-TV is the CBS affiliate owned by Capitol Broadcasting Co. WMYW-LP is the MyNetworkTV affiliate, and The CW has a cable-only affiliate. The market gets its public broadcast signal from WUNJ-TV.

Local broadcasters did not return calls seeking comment.

FCC Commissioner Michael Copps has been pushing for a test in a small market that met certain criteria, including that all broadcast stations’ digital signals already are on the air on the same channels where they will be found when the official digital switch takes place.

The idea is to learn, among other things, how many TV homes may be unprepared for the transition, which will require viewers to have digital sets, boxes that can convert digital broadcast signals to analog on older sets, or delivery of programs by cable or satellite services.

The sources who confirmed the announcement of the test weren't able to say when it may begin. However, the trial run will be preceded by a big education campaign by local stations about converter boxes and the availability of coupons worth $40 toward the purchase of the converters through local retailers.

Throughout the country, some 1 million coupons have been used as part of the National Telecommunications & Information Administration’s converter box coupon program, according to recent information.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/05/sources_fcc_sets_wilmington_nc.php

Looks good - are you sure about UNC having Create ?

I usually see it as
.1 UNC
.2 UNC-HD
.3 UNC-KD (kids)
.4 UNC-ED
.5 UNC-NC
.100 UNC-DA (I don't see or hear anything from this on any of my tuners)

dgmayor-i also have hd8300 tell me how to delete unwanted channels,maybe i missed something

So - just how long are they turning off the analog ? A day ? a weekend? permanently ?

Inquiring minds would like to know !

Is UNC-ED not Create? I was under the impression it was.

- Trip

dgmayor-i also have hd8300 tell me how to delete unwanted channels,maybe i missed something

I'm sorry I meant with Passport I could on the 8300 and not the 3250, but with Navigator I can't. Was just saying that it wasn't only dependent on the software but the hardware as well.

One thing I don't like with the passport software is the fact that when you're fast forwarding through something recorded it doesn't show you a time index. It shows you the start (0:00) and the end (1:00) but nothing in between, just a line where you are. Navigator would at least say you're at 33:45 or whatever..

Yea, I didn't like this one either. You can see the "minute" you're at if you look to the left of the bar graph but no "seconds" information. I always liked the second info as an indicator of the potential end of a commercial break and time to stop fast forwarding :-)

We we *upgraded* yesterday ... a couple of box reboots and some other odd behavior. At least they didn't erase anything we had recorded. Most of our preset recording info seems to have survived too. The update did reset our "power on" station - to, well, you know, the TW channel. Certainly my favorite :-)

Frank

We we *upgraded* yesterday ... a couple of box reboots and some other odd behavior. At least they didn't erase anything we had recorded. Most of our preset recording info seems to have survived too. The update did reset our "power on" station - to, well, you know, the TW channel. Certainly my favorite :-)

Frank

Same with me, but you can restore it back to whatever channel you want in the settings somewhere.

First bad experience with my "upgrade", was that I was browsing the channel guide going down, and suddenly the guide didn't work anymore, and a few seconds later the damn thing rebooted. Good thing I wasn't recording anything. But just to be on the safe side, if you are in the middle of recording something, do not access the guide. In fact, I would stay sway from the remote control at all, I wouldn't even breathe near it or the unit.

At least I'm still able to transfer shows to my computer, because if I couldn't I would be switching to Directv in a snap.

Is UNC-ED not Create? I was under the impression it was.

- Trip

I didn't think it was but I could be wrong. Unfortunately, I'm in KC and won't get home until Saturday night / Sunday before I can check this.

Let me know. Or if anyone else here could tell me, I'd greatly appreciate it. =)

- Trip

I just got upgraded to nav..

i have a DLP HD and Surround system ,,hdmi cable,,

For the audio/sap i think its called,,the remote in preferences had 'analog = yes,,and digital = no,,
shouldnt i have digital = yes and analog = no???

what are other basic settings for audio ,,it seems a little off,,
Narrow seems best for me so far...

also no way to juggle my recorded programs to 'pick' which one I want to sacrifice if i run out of room and dont want to permamnetly keep it,,it wont let me as gfar as i can see..

also, the yellow triangle used to let me skip 100 chanells at a time in guide,,is there a equivalent now????

So - just how long are they turning off the analog ? A day ? a weekend? permanently ?

Inquiring minds would like to know !

The stations are running crawls about it tonight, but it doesn't say how long or if the analogs will come back. When I see an answer, I'll post it.

The stations are running crawls about it tonight, but it doesn't say how long or if the analogs will come back. When I see an answer, I'll post it.

WECT.com is reporting that the FCC will release full details on this tomorrow (Thursday, 5/8). In the meantime, their website is saying that the ILM market will be all-digital on Sept. 8th. (Source: http://www.wect.com/global/story.asp?s=8285436 )

According to the Navigator I should be able to set the option to turn on caller Id so that it shows on the screen, but there doesn't appear to be a setting for it. Is anyone with TWC digital phone service able to see caller id on their TV. It sounds like a cool feature and will prevent me from rushing to pickup the phone when my mother-in-law is calling :).

According to the Navigator I should be able to set the option to turn on caller Id so that it shows on the screen, but there doesn't appear to be a setting for it. Is anyone with TWC digital phone service able to see caller id on their TV. It sounds like a cool feature and will prevent me from rushing to pickup the phone when my mother-in-law is calling :).

Press the Settings button, it's the second item on the list, the third item lists received calls.

Sorry I forgot to mention that I had gone to the settings and that selection is not on the menu. I was trying to find out if it was just mine or a system wide problem. I guess I'll have to call TWC. Thanks.

Anyone else lose channel 280 Discovery HD Theater tonight on TWC?

Also if anyone can give me any good reasons not to go with DirectTV I'd love to hear them. I'm getting very impatient waiting for more than the 20ish channels I get now.

Anyone else lose channel 280 Discovery HD Theater tonight on TWC?

Also if anyone can give me any good reasons not to go with DirectTV I'd love to hear them. I'm getting very impatient waiting for more than the 20ish channels I get now.

280 looks okay here, didn't watch it earlier.

The only reason I can give you not to go DirecTV is that you can't get a signal. It's the only reason I haven't.

Wilmington DTV Switch: Sept. 8, 2008
135th Largest DMA To Become First Transition Test Market
By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 5/7/2008 7:09:00 PM
Washington—Wilmington, N.C., will become the first market to switch to all-digital broadcasting on Sept.8, 2008, Wilmington Mayor Bill Saffo said Wednesday.

“We'll be the first in the country,” Saffo said, adding that he was “honored” to have his city take the lead.

The test is slated to begin Monday Sept. 8, a week after Labor Day.

The Federal Communications Commission is planning to announce Wednesday afternoon that Wilmington will be selected as the TV transition test market, an FCC official said.

By law, all full-power TV stations need to terminate analog service on Feb. 17, 2009. FCC Chairman Kevin Martin has been coming under pressure to find a test market to determine the level of preparation in a typical market prior to the national switch over.

FCC Democrat Michael Copps has been nagging Martin for months to find a test market.

"This is very good news for the DTV transition. Real-world experience is an extremely important step—although only one of many—that will help minimize consumer disruption next February. Broadway shows open on the road to work out the kinks before opening night. The DTV transition deserves no less," Copps said in a statement Wednesday night.

Saffo said he is optimistic that his city will be ready to conduct a smooth transition soon after Labor Day.

“The FCC has assured me that they are going to come down here and do everything in their power ...to make this as smooth as possible,” Saffo said. “We look at the FCC as being a partner in this.”

According to Nielsen Media Research, Wilmington is the 135th largest TV market out of 210.

Saffo said he was well-aware that the eyes of the nation would be following DTV developments in his coastal city.

“It's a huge opportunity for Wilmington to pave the way for the rest of country,” Saffo said. “I am looking forward to working with [the FCC] and honored to be the first community in the country to do it.”

Nielsen has cable and satellite TV providers serving 92.6% of Wilmington area households, leaving just 7.4% relying exclusively on free TV. Nationally, the broadcast-only audience ranges from 11% to 19% of households, depending on source of the data.

According to the Center for Public Integrity's media ownership database, the Wilmington market has 10 licensed TV stations.

The city of Wilmington, situated close to the Atlantic shoreline, has a population of 91,137, according to U.S. Census Bureau data for 2003.

Analog TV sets that rely exclusively on free over the air broadcasting will cease to function unless they are adapted to display digital signals.

The federal government plans to spend up to $1.5 billion to subsidize consumer acquisition of digital-to-analog converter boxes. The program allows each household to receive two $40 coupons to defray converter box costs. On Tuesday, the U.S. Commerce Department announced that 1 million coupons had been used since people began applying on Jan. 1.

Saffo said that ensuring broadcast-only viewers were not left behind was essential.

“Obviously we have some concerns,” Saffo said. “Our concern is at those folks who do not have a converter box are going to be given those converter boxes ...”

In theory, cable and satellite TV homes won't be affected by the transition unless they have analog TV sets not connected to one of the pay TV services.

Anyone else lose channel 280 Discovery HD Theater tonight on TWC?

I lost it too about a week ago, for the whole evening, coincidentally(???) the day after they changed my 8300HD to Navigator.

Also if anyone can give me any good reasons not to go with DirectTV I'd love to hear them. I'm getting very impatient waiting for more than the 20ish channels I get now.

I don't have one, therefore I just switched to DirecTV. The installer comes Tuesday. Navigator issues aside, I will be saving just over $400 in the first two years, even allowing for equipment costs, plus going from one HD box to two. It's a no-brainer to me.

My wife and I have a baby on the way and need to cut our costs - first thing on the list is to cut my $111 bill to TWC. I need YOUR Help!!

I have a 47'' Vizio 1080p, am addicted to HD viewing, and require (or hope to have) the ability to record shows like my DVR does - we NEVER watch shows when they are on.

What suggestions would you have?

Should I go with another service provider (I have ziltch experience with anything other than TWC)

Should I buy some sort of antenna and a tivo (again, no experience and not sure how that works).

At this point I am open to all suggestions on how to get HD and lower my bills!

This is such a great forum and I'm very happy to see a local thread. I live in Cary by the way if that has a bearing on opinions.

s15274n,

DirecTV Plus HD DVR package (with 200 channels, including about 42 HD, plus locals), with the AAA deal, for 1 HD DVR and 1 HD non-DVR receiver:

Months 1-5 will be $34.98 + tax, Months 6-12 will be $44.98 + tax, Months 13-24 will be 67.98 + tax, and then $77.98 + tax.

Setup cost: about $100 for the HD DVR, and $0 for the other.

Hope that helps.

s15274n,

DirecTV Plus HD DVR package (with 200 channels, including about 42 HD, plus locals), with the AAA deal, for 1 HD DVR and 1 HD non-DVR receiver:


Wow thanks for telling me about the AAA deal I didn't know about that one.

U betcha. Details are here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13804751#post13804751

For those "losing" channels with Navigator, go into the setup and check the way it displays channels. If it's "Favorite's first" then ones you marked as favorites wont show up in the guide at their normal spot, but list first (dumbest idea ever). This happened to me as well. I fired up Navigator and lost ESPN2/ESPN. I quickly changed that setting and they returned.

abward,

thank you for the suggestion. I decided to call and ask more questions rather than bug the thread. HOWEVER, the rep told me all he could do was $54.99 + $99 upfront for the HD-DVR box. The $54.99 was for 200 digital and 95 HD channels. He said AAA we save me only $5 a month. I read him your post ver batum and he just blew me off not knowing what I was talking about. I'm sure you are probably correct as he seemed hard up, but wanted your thoughts since you seemed so helpful. After the first year the price would go up $18 and then I'm at the same price range I am now (granted more HD... I just need to reduce my costs).

That above would come out to about $65 a month (not taking into account taxes)... I'm at $80 a month now. It's the jump in payment that bothers me too.


^ good call dgmayor, I was wondering where my ESPNHD went.. though I knew it was still there.
Any other thoughts on how to get HD for CHEAP :)

Call back, and try to get a non-moron. I got the deal on the third try. Also, you only get the deal at this AAA number, and only during regular business hours: 800-242-9114.

You should specifically ask for this following:
* $10 off for 24 months (AAA)
* $18 off for 12 months (DirecTV national deal)
* $5 off for 12 months (Deal for former BellSouth area customers)
* 1 HD DVR for $99
* 1 HD receiver for free
* $10 off for 5 months for friend's referral (for yourself and friend)
* The standard 3-month free movie deal
* $20 credit (or maybe its a Visa gift card?) for signing up for autopay
* $19.95 shipping and handling (could not get free)

Apologies for the thread hijacking. I will stop the non-Raleigh stuff :-)

I just got upgraded to nav..

i have a DLP HD and Surround system ,,hdmi cable,,

For the audio/sap i think its called,,the remote in preferences had 'analog = yes,,and digital = no,,
shouldnt i have digital = yes and analog = no???

what are other basic settings for audio ,,it seems a little off,,
Narrow seems best for me so far...

also no way to juggle my recorded programs to 'pick' which one I want to sacrifice if i run out of room and dont want to permamnetly keep it,,it wont let me as gfar as i can see..

also, the yellow triangle used to let me skip 100 chanells at a time in guide,,is there a equivalent now????
BUMP

FCC Confirms Wilmington as Digital Test Market
By Ira Teinowitz and Julieanne Smolinski

Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin has formally selected Wilmington, N.C., as the test market for the digital transition.

“It will help us spot issues that we need to address throughout the country,” Mr. Martin told a Washington news conference today, surrounded by the mayor of Wilmington and local broadcasters.

The announcement confirms TVWeek’s report that Mr. Martin would select his home state for the dry run of the congressionally mandated switch.

Nielsen ranks the Wilmington market as the 135th largest of major-network affiliates. Beginning at noon on Sept. 8, WWAY-TV (ABC), WSFX-TV (Fox), WECT-TV (NBC), WILM-LP (CBS), and W51CW (Trinity Broadcasting) will broadcast only digital signals to their viewers in the five North Carolina counties that make up the market.

Wilmington PBS station WUNJ-TV will continue to broadcast in both analog and digital until the national transition, set for Feb. 17. The station is part of UNC-TV, the state’s public TV network; it said today that it was concerned that turning off its analog signal in the midst of hurricane season might deprive viewers of needed emergency information.

Mr. Martin said today that the FCC would have full-time staff in Wilmington through the transition to speak and attend events ranging from the riverfront festival to the blueberry festival. He said the agency would prepare public service announcements, outdoor billboards and posters promoting the transition.

Wilmington was chosen for the test run because all of its commercial stations have completed construction of their DTV channels and are operating at full post-transition power.

Jonathan Collegio, the National Association of Broadcasters' VP of the digital television transition, said in a statement: “The FCC-initiated experiment in Wilmington can shed light on a number of issues surrounding the national DTV transition in February 2009. The results must be objectively reviewed to determine how or whether the findings can be applied nationwide. NAB will be fully supportive of our local television broadcasters in this effort."

FCC Commissioner Michael Copps, who had been to England to watch its switchover, had pushed for a test before the national switch. Today he praised both the FCC and local broadcasters for voluntarily agreeing to it.

“It’s not risk-free. It’s not problem-free,” he said.

While Mr. Martin suggested Wilmington’s switch would offer valuable information, Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein said he was concerned that Wilmington would be more a showplace than a real test. The kind of effort the agency is putting into making sure Wilmington goes right is unlikely to be there when the rest of the country switches.

“The question is whether it is a real test or a staged dress rehearsal,” said Mr. Adelstein.

Broadcasters said they expected some disruption in advertising and viewership during the switch, but that it would have occurred anyway in February.

“Whether we do the transition in September or we do it in February, we are going to have some disruption to work through,” said Jim Goodmon, president-CEO of Capitol Broadcasting, which owns WILM-LP.

“If you don’t know the transition is coming in Wilmington, you won’t be breathing. But I don’t know how we are not going to have a disruption. We are going to have a disruption. We are going to make it as small as we can.”

Paul McTear, president-CEO of Raycom Media, which owns WECT-TV, said the high level of cable and satellite households in the market—93%—together with the number that already have requested discount coupons for converter boxes, meant few households would lose TV service. He predicted the biggest problem would be with second sets.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/05/fcc_confirms_wilmington_as_dig.php

All post-update questions should be asked in the Navigator thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

You'll find answers there.

This thread is only useful to let people know if they are (or have just been) upgraded. It just takes the thread off topic otherwise.


BUMP

Anbody else watching WB22 tonight and notice the lack of HD? Was watching Smallville at 8pm, it started in HD... but somewhere in the middle it switched (during the show and not during commercial) to letterbox SD. I thought maybe it was for a weather crawl but never saw one... Picture stayed in SD for the remainder of the show, except one time it came back from commercial in HD but within 1-2 seconds switched back to letterbox SD. I don't watch Supernatural, but noticed it started in non-HD as well.

This happened a few weeks ago with WB22 and I never saw any reports of what happened... but it appears whatever happened happened again tonight.

Anbody else watching WB22 tonight and notice the lack of HD? Was watching Smallville at 8pm, it started in HD... but somewhere in the middle it switched (during the show and not during commercial) to letterbox SD. I thought maybe it was for a weather crawl but never saw one... Picture stayed in SD for the remainder of the show, except one time it came back from commercial in HD but within 1-2 seconds switched back to letterbox SD. I don't watch Supernatural, but noticed it started in non-HD as well.

This happened a few weeks ago with WB22 and I never saw any reports of what happened... but it appears whatever happened happened again tonight.

That was about the time my weather radio let me know about a tornado watch in Wake and some other nearby counties until 3 AM (Is Hillary working at the National Weather Service?;)) was issued. Maybe the equipment to generate the warning graphics failed.

Finally a station in this area gets it! Was just watching Lost and there was a weather crawl. Yet the picture stayed in HD! Finally! The crawl was only in the 4:3 area but at least didn't have to deal with the picture switching back in forth. No such luck with NBC17 during The Office though.

WRAL has been doing HD weather crawls for a while. Kudos to both. Now only if the other stations can get on the bandwagon.

Finally a station in this area gets it! Was just watching Lost and there was a weather crawl. Yet the picture stayed in HD! Finally! The crawl was only in the 4:3 area but at least didn't have to deal with the picture switching back in forth. No such luck with NBC17 during The Office though.

Did you notice the bad audio however? The center channel audio was particularly bad on Lost over TWC. All other channels sounded fine.

Anbody else watching WB22 tonight and notice the lack of HD? Was watching Smallville at 8pm, it started in HD... but somewhere in the middle it switched (during the show and not during commercial) to letterbox SD. I thought maybe it was for a weather crawl but never saw one... Picture stayed in SD for the remainder of the show, except one time it came back from commercial in HD but within 1-2 seconds switched back to letterbox SD. I don't watch Supernatural, but noticed it started in non-HD as well.

This happened a few weeks ago with WB22 and I never saw any reports of what happened... but it appears whatever happened happened again tonight.
This happens a LOT with them...every week either Smallville or Reaper (the only reasons I ever watch the channel) gets dropped to SD for no good reason. I doubt it has anything to do with a weather crawl considering how often it happens.

i noticed when at my parents house in cary, they have a new interface on the dvr boxes now...is this coming to raleigh?

In my week of yelling at Time Warner for this update (killed my 8300HD DVR and lost everything...and then the one I switched it out for also didn't work...I found out this update is rolling out through the Triangle, so you should get it soon.

My folks live in Raleigh and they actually got it before I did (with no issues whatsoever). So, it's on the way I'm sure.

This happens a LOT with them...every week either Smallville or Reaper (the only reasons I ever watch the channel) gets dropped to SD for no good reason. I doubt it has anything to do with a weather crawl considering how often it happens.

If I'd actually seen a weather crawl, then I would have understood. Maybe they were trying to do a weather crawl but couldn't? I pretty much only watch for Smallville these days, so I wasn't sure if that was the only night it happened.

I haven't been tuned to 11 lately during a weather situation to see their new HD crawl... but have been able to see WRAL's (including Thursday night on Without a Trace)... it is nice to see progress in this area of broadcast.

Did you notice the bad audio however? The center channel audio was particularly bad on Lost over TWC. All other channels sounded fine.

The audio for Lost made it unwatchable! I am happy to hear this was not a D* f'up. Thankfully, I was able to switch over to WABC, where it was fine.

Searched the thread, but could not find anything. If this has been covered, sorry.

Received the upgrade and after changing a few messed up set-ups, everything seems to be OK. The Time Warner remote functions seem to be as before.

The problem is I use a Harmony remote to control activities for my entire system. Prior to the software upgrade, the Harmony was able to control all Explorer 8300HD functions. After the upgrade, everything functions with the exception of the number buttons. These functioned before the upgrade, but not after. Very strange since only the software was changed, not the Explorer 8300HD.

Any solutions?

...because that way I wouldn't have to put up with NBC17's incompetence. Not only they have the crappiest HD equipment, they don't even use it well. Case in point, this past Thursday night with all the weather crawls. ABC doesn't switch to SD for weather crawls. Same for WRAL, although the crawl has the wrong aspect ratio, but what do I care. At least they live the programming in HD. NBC17 abruptly switches to SD for the weather crawl, so instead of the show taking all my screen space, I have a small rectangle with large black borders and the crawl. But if that wasn't bad enough, they don't always switch back to HD when they end the crawl. Two examples from this last Thursday night. I was just watching my recording of ER, and the crawl ends sometime at minute 48, but the broadcast stays SD until minute 56, when a commercial comes, and funny enough, the commercial is shown in HD. Of course, the weather crawl is absent from all commercials, as far as I could see while fast forwarding. Example #2: Same night, Late Night with Conan O'Brien. From minute 11 to minute 19 it was SD with no weather crawl.

I just wish that I didn't have to watch any shows at all on NBC17, because they just don't know how to broadcast HD as it should be done, such as WRAL, which is not perfect, but at least they don't mess up as bad.

Did you notice the bad audio however? The center channel audio was particularly bad on Lost over TWC. All other channels sounded fine.

I did notice bad audio, but not what you mention, so much as an overall distortion, but it was less terrible if I went to the audio settings in Navigator and set it to any of the two other than "Narrow", which applies dynamic range compression and bumps up the volume a lot. Still, it was ABC's fault.

I spent the past hour or so looking for answers to this problem and some of them I found to be from a year ago so I wasn't sure if this is something that has been remedied since.

My parents just got a new tv so my dad went and picked up a new cable box from Time Warner, he got the 8240HDC. The box came with the YPbPr cables and I hooked it up as such. Today I got an antenna and have been watching OTA HD on my own TV and noticed a significant difference in quality between what is seen with the digital cable. I come to find out that everything is coming in as 480i with the digital cable. I tried every setting I could and tried to set the only display modes as 720 and 1080 but have been unable to fix this. I also tried connecting it to the TV using HDMI cables and still got the same results. I plan on calling TW on Monday but thought I'd try to find a solution if possible before then.

I spent the past hour or so looking for answers to this problem and some of them I found to be from a year ago so I wasn't sure if this is something that has been remedied since.


look here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=42

You solution depends on software as well as hardware and you need to ask in the right software thread.

I spent the past hour or so looking for answers to this problem and some of them I found to be from a year ago so I wasn't sure if this is something that has been remedied since.

My parents just got a new tv so my dad went and picked up a new cable box from Time Warner, he got the 8240HDC. The box came with the YPbPr cables and I hooked it up as such. Today I got an antenna and have been watching OTA HD on my own TV and noticed a significant difference in quality between what is seen with the digital cable. I come to find out that everything is coming in as 480i with the digital cable. I tried every setting I could and tried to set the only display modes as 720 and 1080 but have been unable to fix this. I also tried connecting it to the TV using HDMI cables and still got the same results. I plan on calling TW on Monday but thought I'd try to find a solution if possible before then.

Why did your dad go to Time Warner and pickup a box instead of having a technician come to his house? I didn't even know you could go there and pick up a box yourself.

My wife and I have a baby on the way and need to cut our costs - first thing on the list is to cut my $111 bill to TWC. I need YOUR Help!!


As a self proclaimed cheapskate with a 2 year old, I know your situation. I suggest you investigate HTPC based solutions and limit yourself to over the air only. After you have your baby, you'll have a *lot* less time than you do now. I can barely keep up with what I get OTA at the rate I have time for (an average of 1-2 hours TV/day).

If you do go the HTPC route, I'd advise getting a "media extender" (a thin client designed for HDTV playback which is networked to the PC) rather than trying to put the HTPC next to the TV and use the video card. For one, it takes quite a while to get the settings right, and if you're running Windows, you can get nickled and dimed to death by all the extra video decoding software you might need to buy. The other advantage is that you can use a much older, slower PC, since the vast majority of the hard work happens in hardware on the media extender.

The cheapest decent HTPC solution is MythTV. This is mainly Linux and MacOSX. It is very hard to setup, and there are no decent media extenders (eg, can't do commercial skipping, etc on a media extender). On the upside it is free, except for listings, which cost $20 per year. I ran MythTV for over 3 years until I switched to SageTV.

Another cheap solution is Windows MCE or Vista. On the upside, there are lots of HD media extenders (you might already have one in an Xbox) and the listings are free. On the down side, well, it is MS software. The listings are free, so there are no ongoing fees.

IMHO, the best HTPC solution available is SageTV. This works on Windows, MacOSX or Linux. You buy the "server" software for $80. There is only one HD media extender available (the STX-HD100), but it runs the full SageTV gui, and can run extensions like commercial skipping. The extender alone is $200, and you can get it bundled with the Windows version of the server for $250. Once you've bought the software, the listings are free so there are no ongoing fees.

No matter what software you choose, you'll need an HDTV tuner card for your computer. The most versatile is the HD Homerun ($170). This doesn't require open PCI slots, works on a Mac, etc. If you have a PC with open PCI slots, you can get good deals on tuner cards.

Assuming you have an existing PC, you can make it into an HTPC for roughly:

$00.00: Channel master 4228 antenna free from WRAL
$170.00: HDHomerun ATSC/QAM dual tuner
$200.00: HD Media extender
$80: SageTV Media extender
$100: Slop (Misc cables, splitters, etc from local hardware store)
-----------------
$550

And that is a worst case, with some slop built in. Chances are good you can get away with something cheaper. After 5 months, you'll break even. (or 8 1/3, if you keep your cable modem).

I hope that helps,

Drew

To Jack The Cat:

I have two 8300 HD boxes that just got upgraded. I have a Harmony 676 on one box and a Harmony 880 on the other. Neither of mine have the problem that you list. By numbers not functioning, do you mean that you can't type a channel and go there? Or are you meaning something else?

I do have the 8300HD and not the HDC box, but not sure if that would make any difference or not. Both of my boxes work just fine with the upgrade and my Harmony remotes.

It is weird that your remotes worked prior to the upgrade and not after. I have noticed that the boxes seem to process keystrokes faster than before (Again might just appear that way to me) so is it possble that you have too long of a key delay in there? For example tonight I was trying to go to channel 40. I hit 0 then in the time that it took me to get my finger to 4 (Distracted by a 6 year old :) ) the box had already switched to channel 0.

So far I've not seen any oddities in the new software with the Harmony remotes.

[QUOTE=jacksonz0r;13841131]
My parents just got a new tv so my dad went and picked up a new cable box from Time Warner, he got the 8240HDC. The box came with the YPbPr cables and I hooked it up as such. Today I got an antenna and have been watching OTA HD on my own TV and noticed a significant difference in quality between what is seen with the digital cable. I come to find out that everything is coming in as 480i with the digital cable. I tried every setting I could and tried to set the only display modes as 720 and 1080 but have been unable to fix this. I also tried connecting it to the TV using HDMI cables and still got the same results. I plan on calling TW on Monday but thought I'd try to find a solution if possible before then.
</QUOTE>

Are you adjusting the output on the cable box or the display resolution of your TV? The cable box must be outputting 1080i/720p.

Are you viewing the HD channels? 211, 217, 250, 255.

I've been through a bunch of googled pages and this article as well:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/mce/expert/elsbree_dec2004.mspx

Has anyone figured out to get MCE (Media Center Edition) to work with the MINOR channels (secondary channels)?

I'm mainly interested in 50.2 RTN and PBS-HD since they significantly differ from the primary station.

First, all my stations are working with my MCE. I get
4.1
4.2
4.3
4.4
5.1
5.2
5.3
11.1
11.2
17.1
17.2
17.3
22.1
28.1
28.2
50.1
50.2
50.3

So that is not the issue.

The issue is that in the Guide Data, for example, when I look at 50.2 (RTN), I see the listings for 50.1.
(Every X.2 or X.3 stations shows the data for X.1).

I have Vista MCE.
I have 2 tuner cards. (Hauppauge 1600 and 1800).
I have OTA (antenna) only hooked up to the MCE computer.

I've altered the xml in
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome\EPG\prefs\
and no luck.

Zap2It.com shows the correct shows/program data for all the minor (secondary) channels. So its not an issue of them not having it.
http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?zipcode=27606

I've searched this thread for MCE and +Media +Center, and didn't find the magic post.

I appreciate any advice.

Has anyone figured out to get MCE (Media Center Edition) to work with the MINOR channels (secondary channels)?

If you figure it out let me know! As far as I can tell you cannot get the sub-channel guide data from the default microsoft service.

I have tried and discovered the Media Center does not support sub channels at least for guide data. Take a look at the forums at the greenbutton.com. MCE also does not support QAM HD channel mapping. This is one of the main reasons I now use Tivo instead of MCE. I used to love MCE, but it has not kept up with technologies such as HD and subchannels.

I have tried and discovered the Media Center does not support sub channels at least for guide data

Wow, if this is actually true it is shameful. The original poster might want to try SageTV. It is much cheaper than a Tivo, and gets the guide data correct, and can remap QAM.

Drew

Ok, well at least I know I'm not crazy.

I put a post here:
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/262820.aspx

so maybe someone will post a way to do it.

Thanks for the replies.

..

I actually setup mythtv on this box, and then I got a Hauppauge 1600 which wasn't mythtv compatible. (or was it the 1800??).

Anyway. So I went to Vista MCE. And since I have an Xbox360 the VistaMCE seemed to make more sense.

But man, the lack of the minor/secondary channels program guide data is annoying.

OK, has anyone noticed a small black line on the right side of broadcasts from WTVD lately? It is about 1/4 picture height up from the bottom on the right. You might not notice it if you have much overscan as it looks to end somewhere around 5% in. I am doing OTA on 11.1 with my HR20-100 from DirecTV. It is on pretty much everything in teh last 2 weeks.

At first, I thought it was an issue with the box, but no other channels show it, then I thought maybe it was a result of th eweather crawls, but it has done it on a few shows were they never showed a crawl all night.

It is really no big deal, more of a minor irritation, but now that I have noticed it I cannot avoid it any more. :D


Also, did anyone else have some major glitching last night during Lost at around the 40 minute mark? Right when a bit character was telling a regular a very crucial piece of info about some previously unkonw relationships among them and other regulars, I got major dropouts and green blocks on and off for a minute or so.

OK, has anyone noticed a small black line on the right side of broadcasts from WTVD lately?
I've noticed it.

I figured I'd look at the result and see how much of the much promised "any day now..." HD had shown up on TWC...

I currently have the Dish HD-only package + HD locals + HD DVR.. paying ~$47/month, with no discounts. For that I get 40 national HD channels (I am not including PPV or on-demand ch's in the count, I don't believe in trying to inflate the channel count) + the same 7 locals as TWC = ~47 HD channels (even after the recent loss of the Voom channels)

If I had TWC Digital + HD suite (but no premium ch), it appears I would get 22 HD channels (locals included in that count) for what appears to be $68 (digipic1000) + $7 (HD suite) + $8 DVR = $83/month

I have 5 months left on my Dish contract.. but I'm very happy with the result... it looks like I made the right choice (for me, trying to maximize HD availability with cost also a consideration), at least for this 18 month period. Twice as much HD, half the cost :)

Note, DirectTV has more HD than Dish, but doesn't have an HD-only pkg that allows it to cost nearly as little.

All information for this post pulled directly from the twcnc pages which I have to assume represent the most current information.

I have noticed these issues on WNCN through Time Warner Cable. Is it my imagination, is it WNCN's fault, or is it Time Warner Cable's fault?

On really stormy days, the HD feed fails. Once, I noticed that the failed HD feed was replaced with an upconverted SD feed during one of these stormy days. Also, I saw that the NBC17 building was surrounded by plants when I passed it while driving on I-440. The plants look nice, but is one of them in the way of the HD feed receiver? Also, I have called Time Warner Cable to check the signal levels to rule out any problems caused by weak signals. The technician said that my house's signal levels were really strong after running many tests in my house and on the cable utility box near the curb.
American Gladiators was a compression artifact filled mess when I watched it last night. Is TWC doing the HD Lite thing here with NBC17, or is NBC17 doing a bad job with compression?

I have noticed these issues on WNCN through Time Warner Cable. Is it my imagination, is it WNCN's fault, or is it Time Warner Cable's fault?

On really stormy days, the HD feed fails. Once, I noticed that the failed HD feed was replaced with an upconverted SD feed during one of these stormy days. Also, I saw that the NBC17 building was surrounded by plants when I passed it while driving on I-440. The plants look nice, but is one of them in the way of the HD feed receiver? Also, I have called Time Warner Cable to check the signal levels to rule out any problems caused by weak signals. The technician said that my house's signal levels were really strong after running many tests in my house and on the cable utility box near the curb.



I can only guess you are imagining this because according to TWC, Cable is totally impervious to weather while satellite goes out any time it rains. ;)

Sorry, but I could not resist.

Maybe the engineer at NBC will check into this after reading it.

I have noticed these issues on WNCN through Time Warner Cable. Is it my imagination, is it WNCN's fault, or is it Time Warner Cable's fault?

On really stormy days, the HD feed fails. Once, I noticed that the failed HD feed was replaced with an upconverted SD feed during one of these stormy days. Also, I saw that the NBC17 building was surrounded by plants when I passed it while driving on I-440. The plants look nice, but is one of them in the way of the HD feed receiver? Also, I have called Time Warner Cable to check the signal levels to rule out any problems caused by weak signals. The technician said that my house's signal levels were really strong after running many tests in my house and on the cable utility box near the curb.
American Gladiators was a compression artifact filled mess when I watched it last night. Is TWC doing the HD Lite thing here with NBC17, or is NBC17 doing a bad job with compression?


NBC is still delivering HD over Ku Band satellite, so of course it fades out in a hard rain. Their C-Band delivery is supposed to be finished by the Olympics.

A G has always looked bad to me. It's obviously some up-converted stretched mess, but it comes to us that way. It looks bad coming in, so it is obviously not shot in HD.

OK, has anyone noticed a small black line on the right side of broadcasts from WTVD lately? It is about 1/4 picture height up from the bottom on the right. You might not notice it if you have much overscan as it looks to end somewhere around 5% in. I am doing OTA on 11.1 with my HR20-100 from DirecTV. It is on pretty much everything in teh last 2 weeks.

At first, I thought it was an issue with the box, but no other channels show it, then I thought maybe it was a result of th eweather crawls, but it has done it on a few shows were they never showed a crawl all night.

It is really no big deal, more of a minor irritation, but now that I have noticed it I cannot avoid it any more. :D


Also, did anyone else have some major glitching last night during Lost at around the 40 minute mark? Right when a bit character was telling a regular a very crucial piece of info about some previously unkonw relationships among them and other regulars, I got major dropouts and green blocks on and off for a minute or so.

I noticed that during Lost. I thought it was antennae breakup, but maybe not..

^I had no problems with Lost via TWC, FWIW.

...
I currently have the Dish HD-only package + HD locals + HD DVR.. paying ~$47/month, with no discounts. For that I get 40 national HD channels (I am not including PPV or on-demand ch's in the count, I don't believe in trying to inflate the channel count) + the same 7 locals as TWC = ~47 HD channels (even after the recent loss of the Voom channels)
...
When they add SPIKE-HD, I may move to the HD-Only package (I NEED my UFC).
Do you have to own your receiver or can you do this package with a lease receiver?

When they add SPIKE-HD, I may move to the HD-Only package (I NEED my UFC).
Do you have to own your receiver or can you do this package with a lease receiver?

I'm leasing a 622.

Ok, last night during Dancing with the Stars the small black bar was there, in the same place, but smaller than before.


Also, on WRAL last night, they kept dropping out of HD to run the Amber alert. I know they are important, but why can;t they use the same crawl system as the weather where it stays HD? Since every time they do it, the sound goes dim first, then we jump back a few seconds and get sound again, then lose a few seconds going the other way when it is done.

I'm leasing a 622.
Thanks for the info. That seems to be the Best deal going right now.
But I must correct my post; I need SPIKE-HD and my daughter needs NICK-HD before I can switch. Of course if D* added an HD-Only pack I would switch today.

Thanks for the info. That seems to be the Best deal going right now.
But I must correct my post; I need SPIKE-HD and my daughter needs NICK-HD before I can switch. Of course if D* added an HD-Only pack I would switch today.

Its not perfect for sure, but I get 90% of the channels I want at only 50% of the price (vs. other offerings), by getting the HD-only package. Luckily I can watch "The Daily Show" off the web (or could get it via iTunes). On the flip side, there's no way this package can last forever (1-2 years max I think), but for now its a sweet deal.

I can only guess you are imagining this because according to TWC, Cable is totally impervious to weather while satellite goes out any time it rains. ;)

Sorry, but I could not resist.

Maybe the engineer at NBC will check into this after reading it.

During the storms yesterday I got a bunch of pixellation on several channels on TWC. Was the first time I'd seen it on cable, but it was pretty clear what was causing it as it came and went as the storm moved through and was fine before and after the storms. This included HBO, ESPN, Food that I remember.

Not sure if it was just my house (water getting into a connection somewhere) or more widespread.

During the storms yesterday I got a bunch of pixellation on several channels on TWC. Was the first time I'd seen it on cable, but it was pretty clear what was causing it as it came and went as the storm moved through and was fine before and after the storms. This included HBO, ESPN, Food that I remember.

Not sure if it was just my house (water getting into a connection somewhere) or more widespread.

I noticed the same thing in my house.

I have Basic and Standard, and just hooked up a new HDTV. While I'm debating the merits of TWC's package vs. Dish & DirectTV, I figured I'd try out the stuff that's freely available on QAM.

While I get all the things that are listed on the Durham QAM listing page, there are a couple of others that come in. Most are public-access stuff, but one (78.6) is the digital feed of A&E.

Is this normal that the ocassional random digital channel is put in the clear?

Is it just me, or did anyone else notice funky audio from WTVD during the Indy 500 ?
I had one mono analog TV with a CECB (Philco TB100HH9) on 11.1 (OTA) , and another CECB (that I can't tell you) in stereo mode into my A/V receiver. It sounded like they were talking in an echo chamber on both of them - and this was the "announcer's voices" - the cars going by sounded normal..

Is it just me, or did anyone else notice funky audio from WTVD during the Indy 500 ?
I had one mono analog TV with a CECB (Philco TB100HH9) on 11.1 (OTA) , and another CECB (that I can't tell you) in stereo mode into my A/V receiver. It sounded like they were talking in an echo chamber on both of them - and this was the "announcer's voices" - the cars going by sounded normal..

I noticed it, but it was slight. I believe it is an ABC thing. Why? Watch an NBA playoff game. It sounds like it is from a tunnel, regardless of the game site. Raise the volume and it worsens. TBS is not like that.

I'll speculate that there is some sound mix being attempted in a broad way on their broadcasts. The NBA games are so bad that I lower the volume, and can barely hear the commentary.

is anyone else having trouble with Time Warner QAM channels tonight?

I can get 4.1-4.5 (WUNC PBS) and 5.1-5.3 (WRAL CBS) to work, but no others. The others are all blank black screens. Earlier during the local evening news, 17.1 (WNCN) was showing very scrambled colors, unwatchable. Every once in a while an image would come through, and it looked like WRAL's news! I'm very confused as to what's going on, hoping it isn't an issue with my wiring or something. All was fine when I left for work this morning.

POSG, Where are you? and more importantly where is your SDV?

The thread is dead and figured it would be a good time for an update on why one should pick TWC over SAT in this market. Do we all have time to fulfill another contract with one of the SATs before TWC is HD competitive?

POSG, Where are you? and more importantly where is your SDV?

The thread is dead and figured it would be a good time for an update on why one should pick TWC over SAT in this market. Do we all have time to fulfill another contract with one of the SATs before TWC is HD competitive?


LOL!!! :) Hopefully after the Crapigator rollout is complete in June, SDV will get turned on and we will have some HD (and get rid of the current HD Lite).

It is ironic that the very thing SAT was accused of with HD Lite is now prevalent with TWC.

POSG, Where are you? and more importantly where is your SDV?

The thread is dead and figured it would be a good time for an update on why one should pick TWC over SAT in this market. Do we all have time to fulfill another contract with one of the SATs before TWC is HD competitive?


LOL!!! :) Hopefully after the Crapigator rollout is complete in June, SDV will get turned on and we will have some HD (and get rid of the current HD Lite).

It is ironic that the very thing SAT was accused of with HD Lite is now prevalent with TWC.

LOL!!! :) Hopefully after the Crapigator rollout is complete in June, SDV will get turned on and we will have some HD (and get rid of the current HD Lite).

It is ironic that the very thing SAT was accused of with HD Lite is now prevalent with TWC.
I also wonder if any other markets have done the SDV switch already and if they are competitive with HD offerings now.
We all know just because a provider has capacity doesn't mean they are willing to add the channels.

Is anyone with Navigator getting the On Demand channels?

When my 3250HD box was converted to Navigator two weeks ago, I lost all of the On Demand channels (except I still get one: channel 552 Kids On Demand). Last week I called TWC about it, and I was told that everyone is having problems with On Demand channels, and TWC is working to fix them.

Is anyone with Navigator getting the On Demand channels?

When my 3250HD box was converted to Navigator two weeks ago, I lost all of the On Demand channels (except I still get one: channel 552 Kids On Demand). Last week I called TWC about it, and I was told that everyone is having problems with On Demand channels, and TWC is working to fix them.

I have had no trouble getting the Answers on Demand channel, though the 8240HDC with ODN I have crashed when something caused the tuner to be stuck on its pay-per-view advertising channel after I hit the exit button and allowed the banner to leave.

Is anyone with Navigator getting the On Demand channels?

When my 3250HD box was converted to Navigator two weeks ago, I lost all of the On Demand channels (except I still get one: channel 552 Kids On Demand). Last week I called TWC about it, and I was told that everyone is having problems with On Demand channels, and TWC is working to fix them.

I had some problems with a couple of On Demand channels last week but last night they were working fine.

Ever since we were "Navigatored" the on-demand channels have been unwatchable. Video freezes, etc. Didn't watch last night, hopefully its been fixed.

Frank

Is anyone with Navigator getting the On Demand channels?

When my 3250HD box was converted to Navigator two weeks ago, I lost all of the On Demand channels (except I still get one: channel 552 Kids On Demand). Last week I called TWC about it, and I was told that everyone is having problems with On Demand channels, and TWC is working to fix them.

I watched "The Brave One" on the HD On Demand channel about a week ago. No problems at all. I have the 8300HD box. It got the Navigator update about 3 weeks ago.

Sooke

Just noticed last night that the local news on WTVD is in HD now. When did that happen?

WRAL local news looks better though.

Sooke

Just noticed last night that the local news on WTVD is in HD now. When did that happen?

WRAL local news looks better though.

Sooke

Over a month ago on April 21.

I'm VERY late to this thread. How can you tell if the TW box has been updated to the new firmware? Is there something that has to be done to cause the upgrade, or is it automatic? Hopefully the upgrade doesn't make them worse than they already are.

I'm VERY late to this thread. How can you tell if the TW box has been updated to the new firmware? Is there something that has to be done to cause the upgrade, or is it automatic? Hopefully the upgrade doesn't make them worse than they already are.

You'll know because your guide is very very different. It'll be various shades of blue and run very slowly.

We've been experiencing frequent audio dropouts on the WRAL HD channel since this afternoon - through the 6 PM news, 60 minutes and it's still ocurring at 10:45 PM. We are on Dish, and hear the problem via either of two 722 DVRs. Anyone else had this problem today?

It's been happening OTA as well. (Dish sub, but no HD Dish receiver)

Edit - just happened again during the 11 o'clock weather

You'll know because your guide is very very different. It'll be various shades of blue and run very slowly.

Actually, if you have a box without a CableCARD, the new guide you will get will be fast except when retrieving the next day's guide if you go to the next day from a day you have data from (because many legacy boxes lack efficient DOCSIS cable modems, they must use the super slow DAVIC cable modems they all have). However, this software becomes very unstable if you mix HDTV, closed captioning from live talky programs like newscasts and late night jokesters, and DVR functionality.

The guide on the boxes with CableCARDs is slower than the guide on the legacy boxes because the hardware is just a hack to add a CableCARD, and is not really optimized to run the Java-based software that they run.

WARNING: Technical explanation ahead

Because Java is interpreted and recompiled in real-time, the processors must perform lots of decision making instructions called branches. This is disruptive to the way CPUs work, because they work like assembly lines in factories. Each time a branch is encountered, it must guess and fill the assembly line, which is known as a pipeline, with instructions for one of these paths. If it guesses wrong, then there are a bunch of instructions that are instantly trashed when the incorrect guess is detected and therefore a bunch of idle and wasted processing power. Computer engineers have noticed that if a branch is taken one way many times, the next time it is encountered, it probably will be taken the same way again. Therefore, advanced processors have a hardware unit called a branch prediction unit (or BPU for short) to help predict the way branches go and tell the processor to preload the probable instructions to be executed instead of naively loading the instructions after the branch. DVRs running native code generally did not have to make decisions often, so BPU's would be an expensive part of a set top box's CPU that does not improve performance much, and therefore were left out. Running native code, these CPUs ran quickly. However, since these CPUs do not have BPUs, they stink at Java interpretation and compilation. The 8300HDC and 8240HDC boxes are basically hacks to add CableCARDs to the 8300HD and 8240HD boxes, and enough memory to run Java.

The 85xxHDC boxes probably have a CPU that includes a BPU so that they can run Java quickly.

We've been experiencing frequent audio dropouts on the WRAL HD channel since this afternoon - through the 6 PM news, 60 minutes and it's still ocurring at 10:45 PM. We are on Dish, and hear the problem via either of two 722 DVRs. Anyone else had this problem today?

I'm on TWC and have been experiencing the same problem. It happened again this morning during WRAL news. This is on channel 255 which is HD. Since it has been happening on cable, satellite and OTA, I guess that it is a WRAL issue.

Is there anyone here with TWC and a 8300HD box running an external SATA drive? I've browsed the navigator thread and it seems Navigator works fine with external SATA drives added. My concern is if I add one will I lose the ability to jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments? Anyone here done this?

Does anyone know of an antena powerful enough to recieve OTA Hd channels from Raleigh in the OBX? If so which antena we have no local HD channels here via Direct TV.

Where at in the Outer Banks ?

Kitty Hawk ? Point towards Norfolk antenna farm.

Wilmington etc ? - there are stations in the area.

But it is unlikely that you can see the Raleigh Antenna farm in Garner from anywhere on the coast - maybe as far as Greenville / Tarboro, but not much further east.

I am sure someone from your area will respond with more specifics, but the best source for information you are seeking is: http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

I am sure someone from your area will respond with more specifics, but the best source for information you are seeking is: http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Better - www.tvfool.com

I am in kitty hawk. I will check those web sites, thanks

is anybody elses WNCN-HD.. i don't know the technical term.. misplaced on the screen? the NBC logos particularly during the national NBC commercials are off the bottom of the screen and there is a black bar on the top of my screen.. i can see the ..something.. bar (the white bar strobing off and on) on the top of the screen during local commercials

it's not isolated to my TV, TWC Pinehurst/Southern Pines

Does anyone have any experience with an electric contractor that services the Morrisville area? I'm trying to find out what it would take to get a second coax cable run to my living room through the wall for the DirecTV DVR. The DirecTV technician refused to do it and suggested I hire an electrician to do that work. Any recommendations for someone to go to or warnings to stay away from certain contractors would be helpful. Thanks.

is anybody elses WNCN-HD.. i don't know the technical term.. misplaced on the screen? the NBC logos particularly during the national NBC commercials are off the bottom of the screen and there is a black bar on the top of my screen.. i can see the ..something.. bar (the white bar strobing off and on) on the top of the screen during local commercials

it's not isolated to my TV, TWC Pinehurst/Southern Pines

Yes, I noticed the same thing over the past few days or so. Seems to be only WNCN-HD that's shifted down significantly. All other HD channels look fine. As expected it's very obvious in 1:1, but even if I overscan, it's still shifted down. For example, the Today show banner along the bottom almost falls off the bottome of the screen and I see a black edge along the entire top when I overscan. Again, this just started within the past few days. And as with you, it's not isolated to TV. I'm using TWC Cary.

Does anyone have any experience with an electric contractor that services the Morrisville area? I'm trying to find out what it would take to get a second coax cable run to my living room through the wall for the DirecTV DVR. The DirecTV technician refused to do it and suggested I hire an electrician to do that work. Any recommendations for someone to go to or warnings to stay away from certain contractors would be helpful. Thanks.

I don't recall the name of the contractor (will get it for you later today), but I had them do 2 new lines for me when I had DirecTV installed. They did a great job. I live in a brick house and you would never know there were additional lines run.

Actually nevermind, I'm just going to call and complain until they send me a Single Wire Multiswitch.

Is there anyone here with TWC and a 8300HD box running an external SATA drive? I've browsed the navigator thread and it seems Navigator works fine with external SATA drives added. My concern is if I add one will I lose the ability to jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments? Anyone here done this?

I've been running a 500GB eSATA drive with my 8300HD since the good old Passport days. Navigator upgraded appropriately and has operated without issue. I was very pleased to see that I can now fast forward and rewind live TV again (couldn't with eSATA + Passport). The 15 minute jump is still available, but it’s cludgy. You have to hold the fast forward/rewind button down for a period of time, then the jump will take place. No good way to gauge how many increments you are going to jump since the jump isn’t tied to a single button press.